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Yak'in Cross Country
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Kinda reminds you of the Eagle's song!

Doc



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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

YA THINK? 



Mark

 



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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



 Absolutely.  If I owned the Taurus Judge, I would recommend it over

 every other weapon to carry on a cross country.  No question.  I would

 be hard put to not bring along my Kimber .45ACP CDP though.  I feel  

 kind

 of naked without it.  In Iraq I carry a 9mm popgun, probably the  

 same as

 yours Doc!  


	


Why would anyone carry a 9mm, especially into combat?



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,  

MALS-14 64E wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



  Brian, I would suggest you take a look at some of the Kimber  

 models.  I have a few.  I think you'd love them.


	


Yes, I favor Kimber for sidearms based on the Browning's 1911 design.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Nay, couldn't have been..they were stoned!

Doc



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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Damned you guys are handgun aficionados! 

Doc



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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Yes, Berretta's. No Mark I have a Browning. It was easier to get parts for

at the time as we were converting from S&W .38's. Now those were pop guns. 

Doc



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netmaster15(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Doc or Brian, 

My son just returned from Kandahar in Afghanastan; his Guard unit flies C-130s. I asked him what kind of side arms he carried, he said he was only allowed to carry standard gov issue- whatever that was I don't recall. I wanted him to carry my 1911 model Colt 45  which i've had since WW 2 ; it appears not to be acceptable to the present day command;. from your experience ,have YOU encountered such restriction?  If so, what is the reason ?  Thanks for your response. 

Cliff  Umscheid 

  



-- "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>



Yes, Berretta's. No Mark I have a Browning. It was easier to get parts for

at the time as we were converting from S&W .38's. Now those were pop guns. 

Doc



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jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Glock 23 compact.  When I got mine the 40 S&W was so new there was no ammo

available in SA, managed to get cases and had to roll my own.  There was

also no load data available yet.  Over the years its given good service.  I

bought it for its simplicity.



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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Amazing how easy it is for you guys to carry a weapon. Here in Europe, the

only ones who have guns, are criminals and the police-officers. Decent

citizens are supposed to be protected by "the law", so they must not have

any weapon. And if you happen to have a gun, even if it's something old from

your grandfather dating back to the first World War, then you'd better

destroy it. Otherwise you are in big trouble...



Jan Mevis

RA2005K YK50



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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Cliff,  

A couple of reasons for the standardized weapons. The AF carries Berreta 9mm and M-16 as primary. Ammunition standardization and parts standardization. Also for control of arms entering and exiting theater. Go figure. We can’t keep up with who we gave them to in large quantities right now.  

But that is the reason they refused my carrying my Browning. The Brits and NATO used it as their standard issue at the time and the Berreta was new to our inventory.  

Doc  

     

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of netmaster15(at)juno.com

 Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:43 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Yak'in Cross Country  

  

   

Doc or Brian,  

My son just returned from Kandahar in Afghanastan; his Guard unit flies C-130s. I asked him what kind of side arms he carried, he said he was only allowed to carry standard gov issue- whatever that was I don't recall. I wanted him to carry my 1911 model Colt 45  which i've had since WW 2 ; it appears not to be acceptable to the present day command;. from your experience ,have YOU encountered such restriction?  If so, what is the reason ?  Thanks for your response.  

Cliff  Umscheid  

   



 

 

 -- "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>

 

 Yes, Berretta's. No Mark I have a Browning. It was easier to get parts for

 at the time as we were converting from S&W .38's. Now those were pop guns. 

 Doc

 

 --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Sad but true Jan.  How soon the lessons learned from WW-II are forgotten.  I am not going to "brag" about the United States because there are a lot of idiots in this country as well, many of whom feel that the Constitution is outdated and ridiculous, most especially the 2nd Amendment.  These same people simply refuse to believe facts either... In that every State of this country that has enacted "Right To Carry" laws (and that is MOST of them) have had a noted reduction in violent crime.  To be totally honest, one also has to report that NON violent crime has in turn RISEN in those same states, which goes to prove that not ALL criminals are stupid. 



Interesting to hear from an educated person who lives in a country which does not believe its citizens should be allowed to protect themselves from deadly force.   



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

 	  Quote: 	
		  Brian said: "Why would anyone carry a 9mm, especially into combat?"


	




Because the ammo is lighter, the gun can carry 16 rounds with one in the chamber, and our military has adopted the Berreta 92 as the standard issue firearm... 



Why did they do that?  Because people are stupid and have to continually learn the same lessons over and over again. 



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

You did not ask me Cliff, but since I go where your son does on a regular basis, I thought I'd fill you in on present day regulations.  



There is no restriction from carrying any weapon you want to, as long as it is "Government Issued".  There is a very clear and concise order PROHIBITING anyone from carrying a "Personally owned weapon".  The INTENT of these orders is to prevent a lot of things that seem to have become important since wars even so recent as Korea.  The military does NOT want it's men to be armed without them knowing about it, and they say they can't be sure of the quality and there-fore the safety of privately made or owned weapons.  Don't try to argue with these rules with common sense.  Common sense rarely if ever works with any military branch, or Govt. Office for that matter.  



So that said, that does not mean you can NOT carry a .45   The .45ACP is still issued as a carry weapon in many forms in the military.  If you know the right people, you could carry a Thompson sub-machinegun if you wanted to!  



That said, if your 1911 Colt has Govt. Markings ... You son needs to get to know his units armorer. If you meet the right guy, you could simply have him check your weapon into the armorer and then ISSUE it to your son as authorized.  Not legal really... But things like that happen all the time. 



Mark Bitterlich

USMC Ret.   



--

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Yeah, was is really funny is that we are issued 9 mm in the AF, but on my Jet, they throw only a couple of them in a locked trunk in the back and only one person has the key, hope that person makes it in the crash and better give me one of the pistols, don't trust the other 30 of my friends, they might want my MRE and and shoot me over it, haha.



"netmaster15(at)juno.com" <netmaster15(at)juno.com> wrote:  [quote]  Doc or Brian,

  My son just returned from Kandahar in Afghanastan; his Guard unit flies C-130s. I asked him what kind of side arms he carried, he said he was only allowed to carry standard gov issue- whatever that was I don't recall. I wanted him to carry my 1911 model Colt 45  which i've had since WW 2 ; it appears not to be acceptable to the present day command;. from your experience ,have YOU encountered such  restriction?  If so, what is the reason ?  Thanks for your response.

  Cliff  Umscheid

   

  

-- "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger  Kemp" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>



Yes, Berretta's. No Mark I have a Browning. It was easier to get parts for

at the time as we were converting from S&W .38's. Now those were pop guns. 

Doc



--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

The laws on weapons in most of the European countries were slowly modified

and became much more severe since the fall of the communist empire, the

Soviet Union; at the end of the 80ties, beginning of the 90ties. I don't

know why. 



The more our politicians and certainly the media talk about democracy, the

less we have it. Just like the former German Democratic Republic (Eastern

Germany). 



In the mean time Brussels, the would-be capital of Europe, has become a

serious home-basis for Al Qaida. There are already parts of the town where

the police does not dare to go anymore. And in a specific part of the city,

there are islamic judges (the "khadi's") that speak right. This is

completely unlegal, but nothing is done. During the Ramadan, collaborators

of these khadi's, dressed in green, behave like police-officers. 



The media carry a very great responsibility. A lot of people in (West-)

Europe have forgotten that you have to fight for your freedom. 



Unfortunately I'm too old to emigrate.



Jan





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dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Glock 20C (10mm) when I like to carry the plastic weapon... or the 

delta-elite (10mm) when I like the 1911 version.



Dabear



Jorgen Nielsen wrote:

[quote] 



 Glock 23 compact.  When I got mine the 40 S&W was so new there was no ammo

 available in SA, managed to get cases and had to roll my own.  There was

 also no load data available yet.  Over the years its given good service.  I

 bought it for its simplicity.



 --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Mark,

The Guard is real touchy about "unauthorized" weapons in theater. The SPs,

armorers, and commanders have a zero tolerance for that. Tradition and all,

it is not worth the heartache. The Berreta 9 mm was/is the handgun of choice

in the AF. At least that is what we are issued in the fighters.

Doc



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

Jan,

You are absolutely right. Freedom comes with a Price. It has to be paid in

blood about every 20 years otherwise the Tyrants take over uncontested. That

is why the politicians do not want the citizens armed. That is why some of

our left leaning leaders want us disarmed also.

Thank you, but I feel safer knowing I can defend myself rather than waiting

on the response time of our city police!

Doc



--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Yak'in Cross Country

All this gun stuff.  In the Army I was in, they taught us how to shoot  to kill the first shoot and that huge bore guns were just to heavy.  And  using my Army taught skills, I killed many a deer with a single shot (30.06)  (one at 325yds).  So as survival gun I figured one only  needed to carry something like the little folding 410/22 the USAF used to issue  years ago.  I mean like you need only a bird or rabbit to get you  though.  Right?

  

 That is until I found a couple of pictures out of Alaska.  A Forest  Service guy HAD to kill a charging grizzly.   This bear stood over 14'  tall (12'6" at the shoulder).  The ranger emptied his 7mm Mag before the  bear fell.  Still alive, he reloaded and pumped several rounds into its  head.  This bear's paws were bigger than this guys chest.  It is the  biggest grizzly on record.  They later found the remains of a hiker that  the bear had kill a few day earlier, who had emptied his 38 into the bear.

  

 Since I plan at some time in my short remaining life to fly my CJ to Alaska  (yea sure), does anyone know where I can get a 50 cal 10 shot, full automatic  pistol?

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  In a message dated 11/16/2007 8:22:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  viperdoc(at)mindspring.com writes:

 [quote]-->    Yak-List message posted by: "Roger  Kemp"    <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>



Jan,

You are absolutely right.    Freedom comes with a Price. It has to be paid in

blood about every 20 years    otherwise the Tyrants take over uncontested. That

is why the politicians do    not want the citizens armed. That is why some of

our left leaning leaders    want us disarmed also.

Thank you, but I feel safer knowing I can defend    myself rather than waiting

on the response time of our city    police!

Doc



--

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