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yakplt(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - an |
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Doc, is that your tongue in your cheek I hear rattling around there?
The thing I find so interesting is that the WHOLE CONCEPT of "Experimental Exhibition" is to EXHIBIT YOUR AIRCRAFT AT EVENTS! That is what the FAA designated your aircraft to do for heavens sake! So you take some free fuel to bring it there, which in no way represents even a LARGE percentage of the overall cost to maintain the aircraft, keep current in it, and then take it to some show... and they say that since you took fuel, you can not give rides. If you take no "anything"... including air for your tires I suppose, or even instructions to where the bathroom is, well then... possibly maybe you could be safe giving rides.... but the experts think that it is just best to fore go the rides. Really.
This sounds to me very much like people who think the only reason to bring aircraft to such an event anyway is to fly mass formation flights and nothing else. Possibly add some acro to the list and maybe a few photo sessions. Then hey... as long as you have that commercial ticket you can fill up the tanks, grab as much oil as you can, and haul ass with a smile on your face. "We now be "airshow performers" .... well fine, if that is what makes you happy.
No Craig, I am not talking about you. I have a lot of respect for you as a person and a pilot. However, I do NOT agree with your point of view. So.. what else is new?  Sorry!
Aviation in this country EVOLVED from people taking others up for rides. The Young Eagles program is STILL all about that. There is no question that the FAA does not really like the idea of Jo Pilot giving rides, and if they can come up with some reason to disallow it, they will. In fact they have.
So PERSONALLY..... I would rather show up as a regular old pilot... take NOTHING for free and give as many rides as I possibly can, because that is what aviation is all about. Again, that is in MY opinion.
What we all SHOULD do is to write letters to the FAA about this, and see what they say. Following that are letters to the people we have ELECTED, which is a category the FAA does NOT fit into. Something they and others usually forget.
Your own mileage may vary.
Mark Bitterlich
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ChangDriver
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
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Mark:
I appreciate your comments. The only point I was trying to make is that IF some FAA/FSDO person whats to issue a violation, you are now guilty in the eyes of the FAA and you will need to prove your innocence. As you state, a well documented case is all in your favor.
I think the simple solution is, if you want to fly in airshows or display your plane at an airshow, then be a commercial pilot with a current second class medical AND don't fly media/VIP rides. Leave the media rides up to the guys flying non-experimental aircraft. If you want to fly people, then do so at Young Eagles events or do it at your own expense at an airshow.
As for the RPA. I cannot speak for the other members or the organization as a whole. I do almost all of my flight instruction within Civil Air Patrol and am prohibited from being compensated for it. I have done BFRs for RPA members and have not charged for my time either. There is so much free flight/formation instruction that goes on in the RPA, it is not in the spirit of what I see in the organization to charge for my time as an instructor. I suppose I am also blessed that I make a good living at what I do and just enjoy the flying.
Cheers,
Craig
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - an |
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Craig, I appreciate your comments as well. I don't AGREE with them, but
I appreciate that you're passing what you believe to be good advice and
sound suggestions. Your empathy for others is without question.
Next, I think it is DANGEROUS to profess an attitude of acceptance that
infers that when the FAA speaks, you are "guilty until proven innocent".
*I* think that there are a whole slew of "simple solutions". Without
really bothering to think each and every one through, here are some of
my thoughts:
1. "Hey Jim-Bob, please put my free fuel into "Billy-Jo's" aircraft
instead of mine.... Think that one through carefully! As soon as
you leave "Billy Jo" can pay for YOUR gas at the first fuel stop coming
back from the air show (assuming the two of you went there together) and
now the FAA can not prove ANYTHING went into YOUR aircraft.
2. "Hey Line Person", I don't want my wife to know I was here, could
you please put down N52YK instead of N55YK to cover my butt? Here's $10
for your efforts." Now the FAA has lost all proof of the event.
2a. Along the same lines... If given 15 gallons of free fuel, make sure
you BUY exactly... I repeat EXACTLY the same amount as you were given.
Now you have a RECEIPT for paying for the amount the FAA says you were
given. It's another way to further cloud the issue. Now the FAA will
have to summon witnesses from the FBO, who may just not want to testify.
3. A letter from the free fuel provider... As already described.
4. A letter TO the free fuel provider... As already described.
5. A complete list of the hourly expenses to fly your aircraft, and
what percent that "free fuel" amounted to.
6. After receiving the free fuel, fly off the field and land. Wait a
few hours. Come back. Now you have proof that you BURNED all that free
fuel before giving anyone a ride.
7. Take voice recorder, go to FAA Official on-site. TELL HIM THAT YOU
GOT FREE FUEL, show him your paperwork listed under 4 and 5 above. Tell
him you want to give a guy a ride and that you swear to him in front of
witnesses that the free fuel has nothing to do what-so-ever for free
ride and ask him to comment on it. If you're lucky, he might say go for
it. If you are unlucky, he will say no. Then you tell him you flew off
the free fuel already and have witnesses that will swear to it. If he
persists you then tell him fine then. This is only if your plans listed
in 1 and 2 failed to work. Come up with 2-3 people who will swear they
saw you fly off the fuel. If he files charges anyway, and you have all
this recorded, he will look like an idiot that is just out to make
peoples lives miserable.
I'd like to see about another 100 ideas to baffle the FAA with bull,
because by and large I would like to see the FAA change their reputation
into being more SUPPORTIVE of General Aviation than "otherwise".
I can understand your logic in paragraph two. Now consider this.
You're at your home airfield and someone comes up saying they are
interested in purchasing a CJ-6A. He would like a ride in one and
offers to purchase your fuel if you give him the ride. How many CJ-6A
owners would refuse this and say: "Oh NO Mr. Nice Guy, that is ILLEGAL
and I can not DO THAT!".
Oh sure.... All those that would say that please stand up and raise your
hands. Yet... That is exactly what the FAA is saying is illegal. My
comment is, it's time to start writing some letters.
Paragraph three. You dodged the question.
Mark Bitterlich
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ChangDriver
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - an |
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Fair enough!
Mark
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