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Lithium battery

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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: Lithium battery

I just put an EarthX Lithium battery in my TR-1.  I replaced an odyssey 680 battery with an earthX  ETX-36, 4 pounds .  The lithium is 12 pounds lighter which really helped my CG.   It cranks the engine like crazy.  Engine is an IO-360 with 10:1 compression.  It really cranks it, way better than the lead/acid.  

$400 for the ETX-36 with charger.  Not cheap, but it really helped with my CG.   

This is the much safer Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry not the Lithium Cobalt chemistry that Boeing had all the problems with.  The EarthX batteries have built in logic to balance the cells and protect from over or under voltage.   

Scott



 [quote][b]

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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: Lithium battery

Scott



I had a  less favourable experience with the  Lithium iron  phosphate

batteries  in my TR1 with an  Io240 ,  It was also a massive  weight saving,

it turned the engine  over much faster than the conventional  lead  battery

(Concorde RG28) , they  can not explode or catch fire and they retain power

when left for long periods on  doing nothing at no harm to

them .............BUT  it destroyed my  alternator coupling. These batteries

have an incredible ability to give up   power  ( hence the high cranking

ouptut ) , but they also an incredible ability to  demand power back  from

the alternator to recharge  once they have given up the power.

With a standard charging  continental charging system,  the battery was

demanding as much power as the alternator would provide  immediately after

start up , which was loading the  alternator coupling  in about the worst

possible conditions  ( engine running slowly ) .  After replacing the

coupling , I adopted a different start up technique which had the alternator

switched off , until after take off  ( ie engine up to full running speed

before switching it on  ).



I spoke to an  lithium battery expert  working on installations for space

craft and  she  told me that  they are incredible batteries , but you must

have a charging system that has been designed for them , and that  lead acid

charging  systems are not !! ( no matter what the supplier says) - hence the

reason you need a special charger to charge them at home.  She gave me some

advice about putting in more resistance from the alternator  to the battery

which would prevent 60 amps  being drawn  from the alternator.

This  type of battery would have worked on  some  older continentals  with a

direct   metal spigot drive  or a Lyco, (since all that would happen is the

alternator belt would slip). but the Io240 has a non replaceable  glued

rubber  drive  which is designed to  break if the loads are too high  ( and

they cost about 600$ and  a lot of downtime to replace  ) .

 just my 2cts worth  on the subject .

Keith

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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: Lithium battery

Thanks Keith.  Very interesting.  I have a plane power alternator.  Have to talk to them...

Scott

      From: "Keith.Miller(at)esa.int" <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:49 AM

 Subject: Re: Lithium battery

   




Scott



I had a  less favourable experience with the  Lithium iron  phosphate

batteries  in my TR1 with an  Io240 ,  It was also a massive  weight saving,

it turned the engine  over much faster than the conventional  lead  battery

(Concorde RG28) , they  can not explode or catch fire and they retain power

when left for long periods on  doing nothing at no harm to

them .............BUT  it destroyed my  alternator coupling. These batteries

have an incredible ability to give up  power  ( hence the high cranking

ouptut ) , but they also an incredible ability to  demand power back  from

the alternator to recharge  once they have given up the power.

With a standard charging  continental charging system,  the battery was

demanding as much power as the alternator would provide  immediately after

start up , which was loading the  alternator coupling  in about the worst

possible conditions  ( engine running slowly ) .  After replacing the

coupling , I adopted a different start up technique which had the alternator

switched off , until after take off  ( ie engine up to full running speed

before switching it on  ).



I spoke to an  lithium battery expert  working on installations for space

craft and  she  told me that  they are incredible batteries , but you must

have a charging system that has been designed for them , and that  lead acid

charging  systems are not !! ( no matter what the supplier says) - hence the

reason you need a special charger to charge them at home.  She gave me some

advice about putting in more resistance from the alternator  to the battery

which would prevent 60 amps  being drawn  from the alternator.

This  type of battery would have worked on  some  older continentals  with a

direct  metal spigot drive  or a Lyco, (since all that would happen is the

alternator belt would slip). but the Io240 has a non replaceable  glued

rubber  drive  which is designed to  break if the loads are too high  ( and

they cost about 600$ and  a lot of downtime to replace  ) .

 just my 2cts worth  on the subject .

Keith

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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: Lithium battery

Scott



For the Io240 continental the issue is not the alternator  but the  coupling

which is an engine part  supplied by continental and not part of the

alternator  , but it would be a good idea to talk to Plane power  to see what

they suggest is the best way of limiting the demand on their alternator - as

i suspect your Tr1 is like mine  it only needs a  few amps output.



My coupling was  getting  old  before it broke (400+ hrs ), so maybe that was

a contributing factor as well. When I spoke with  Aircraft quality

accessories ( they do a refurbish/ replacement  service on the couplings for

about 600$ ) , they said it was a regular   replacement part ( 2 to 3 per

week ) ,and they did quite good business out  of this part.  ,they also told

me that they get  more  orders in the  hot summer months , when owners are

switching on the Airco and loading the alternator to a max before they get

into the air, and that it is unlikely to survive for long periods  when

there is a max current draw from the 60amp  TCM alternator.



 Correction to my   previous email on the subject . My baseline battery is

actually a Concorde RG 25XC.



Keith



From:	Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>

To:	"kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>,

Date:	05/20/2015 06:31 PM

Subject:	Re: Lithium battery

Sent by:	owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Thanks Keith.  Very interesting.  I have a plane power alternator.  Have to

talk to them...



Scott



From: "Keith.Miller(at)esa.int" <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:49 AM

Subject: Re: Lithium battery






Scott



I had a  less favourable experience with the  Lithium iron  phosphate

batteries  in my TR1 with an  Io240 ,  It was also a massive  weight saving,

it turned the engine  over much faster than the conventional  lead  battery

(Concorde RG28) , they  can not explode or catch fire and they retain power

when left for long periods on  doing nothing at no harm to

them .............BUT  it destroyed my  alternator coupling. These batteries

have an incredible ability to give up  power  ( hence the high cranking

ouptut ) , but they also an incredible ability to  demand power back  from

the alternator to recharge  once they have given up the power.

With a standard charging  continental charging system,  the battery was

demanding as much power as the alternator would provide  immediately after

start up , which was loading the  alternator coupling  in about the worst

possible conditions  ( engine running slowly ) .  After replacing the

coupling , I adopted a different start up technique which had the alternator

switched off , until after take off  ( ie engine up to full running speed

before switching it on  ).



I spoke to an  lithium battery expert  working on installations for space

craft and  she  told me that  they are incredible batteries , but you must

have a charging system that has been designed for them , and that  lead acid

charging  systems are not !! ( no matter what the supplier says) - hence the

reason you need a special charger to charge them at home.  She gave me some

advice about putting in more resistance from the alternator  to the battery

which would prevent 60 amps  being drawn  from the alternator.

This  type of battery would have worked on  some  older continentals  with a

direct  metal spigot drive  or a Lyco, (since all that would happen is the

alternator belt would slip). but the Io240 has a non replaceable  glued

rubber  drive  which is designed to  break if the loads are too high  ( and

they cost about 600$ and  a lot of downtime to replace  ) .

just my 2cts worth  on the subject .

Keith

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