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ELT and ELT antenna placement
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:43 pm Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Guys



Where did you install the ELT in your RV-10?

And where did you install the ELT antenna?



Best

Carlos

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:00 am Post subject: Re: ELT and ELT antenna placement

I mounted mine on the wall of the tail cone, passenger side, near the cargo area.  I made a mount similar to the one Vans sells passenger://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1497441127-310-252&browse=airframe&product=bracket  The antenna is all the way in the rear under the tail fiberglass.  Many have put both the elt and the antenna in this same area.

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:35 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

On mine the unit is in the tailcone, pax side, just behind the baggage bulkhead.  



The antenna is mounted on the baggage bulk head and pointed forward into the baggage area.    It fits tightly up against the cabin top and rides in the 90Â° bend formed by the cabin top and overhead air console.  



You never know it's there.   

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 14, 2017, at 7:00 AM, LarryRosen <N205EN(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I mounted mine on the wall of the tail cone, passenger side, near the cargo area.  I made a mount similar to the one Vans sells passenger://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1497441127-310-252&browse=airframe&product=bracket  The antenna is all the way in the rear under the tail fiberglass.  Many have put both the elt and the antenna in this same area.

 

 --------

 Larry Rosen

 #40356

 N205EN (reserved)

 &lt;http&gt;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470095#470095

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:38 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Thanks Larry



Let me ask: did you put the antenna "inside" the fiberglass  fairing because of drag, or was it because of integrity reasons in case of crash?



Best

Carlos



Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 14/06/2017, Ã s 13:00, LarryRosen <N205EN(at)gmail.com> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I mounted mine on the wall of the tail cone, passenger side, near the cargo area.  I made a mount similar to the one Vans sells passenger://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1497441127-310-252&browse=airframe&product=bracket  The antenna is all the way in the rear under the tail fiberglass.  Many have put both the elt and the antenna in this same area.

 

 --------

 Larry Rosen

 #40356

 N205EN (reserved)

 &lt;http&gt;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470095#470095

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:59 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

I mounted my ELT on a raised floor over       the trim cables, just aft of the bulkhead.Â  The antenna is mounted       on that bulkhead pointing aft so it's under the fiberglass       fairing.

       Linn

       [img]cid:part1.99089C49.8700FF18(at)cfl.rr.com[/img]

       On 6/14/2017 3:36 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)



Guys



Where did you install the ELT in your RV-10?

And where did you install the ELT antenna?



Best

Carlos

-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:03 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the 

antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet 

the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was 

an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no 

go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to 

a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to 

comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail 

cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was 

traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the 

airplane)



Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, 

it will likely save you an extra trip.



(Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that 

Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety 

wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to 

drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)



-Bob Newman

N541RV

www.tcwtech.com



--

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:25 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Good call Bob.  I have known a few DARs and FAA inspectors over my 

experimental career, and have real heartburn with those that apply 

certificated requirements or their own issues to an experimental 

inspection.  None of us want to tick off the inspector (read $$$ and 

delay) but if asked for proof of guidance on the issues they usually 

relent.  If they don't then I comply in the least intrusive way ..... 

and return that item to the original configuration after the 

inspection.  I have had the ELT antenna discussion before and countered 

the question with one of my own: "How many accidents have you seen where 

the ELT antenna remained in the vertical position??"

Linn



On 6/14/2017 9:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

[quote] 



 One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have 

 mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, 

 this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested 

 with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to 

 inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The 

 TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be 

 within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only 

 suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by 

 drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was 

 traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of 

 the airplane)



 Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his 

 visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.



 (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to 

 accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that 

 are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I 

 had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his 

 visit)



 -Bob Newman

 N541RV

 www.tcwtech.com



 --

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:47 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees 

from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will 

be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the 

antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with 

nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of 

issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most 

use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire 

doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground 

station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few 

miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.



As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying 

validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either 

PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled 

head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and 

did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the 

locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas 

and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should 

not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, 

or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it 

is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to 

placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the 

original bolts the minute the DER departed.

My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the 

far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that 

area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.



On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

[quote] 

 

 One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted 

 the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not 

 meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    

 This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This 

 was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna 

 must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with 

 respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to 

 mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the 

 aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide 

 every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

 

 Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his 

 visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

 

 (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept 

 that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not 

 safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to 

 change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

 

 -Bob Newman

 N541RV

 www.tcwtech.com

 

 

 

 

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:07 am Post subject: Re: ELT and ELT antenna placement

The DAR I used back in 2008 also questioned the lack of safety wire on the brake bolts. We took a look at the plans (to make sure I hadn't made a mistake) and that satisfied him. I did eventually switch to drilled head bolts and wired them. No big deal to do it, and a bit of belt and suspenders, I guess. Same DAR was known to be a stickler on "legal" nav lights as far as color, brightness, etc. I elected to install the standard Whelen system that Van's sold back then to avoid any headaches. He actually had the equipment to measure the output of the lights and was reported to check them on non-certified lighting. LED's were not nearly as good as they are today. Have since installed LED bulbs.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

My only intent was to point out the ELT is definitely on the DAR radar as a sensitive issue.    In our area there's essentially no practical choice in DAR's anymore.   (For hundreds of miles).  Knowing his hot button issues was the key to a smooth an efficient approval.   

As in all things we need to pick our battles. 

lastly sorry for all the references to DER, I meant DAR.     

All the work we've been doing on our STC has DER on my brain.  

Bob Newman

Www.tcwtech.com 

[quote] On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

> 

> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

> -Bob Newman

> N541RV

> www.tcwtech.com

> --

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

My question is, aren't elt antennas a transmitting antenna, just like your com antenna? If so why are you not putting your com antennas inside of plane, tail cone, engine compartment. Most elt antenna are flexible not rigid have not seen them torn off unless flipped and since we have vertical stab chances are slim that happening.

I'm still asking these questions and no one has answered them for me.

Sent from my iPad

[quote] On Jun 14, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

> 

> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

> -Bob Newman

> N541RV

> www.tcwtech.com

> --

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: Re: ELT and ELT antenna placement

The real reason I put it there was aesthetics.

 I didn't want the antenna on the exterior and it seemed like a good place. 	  trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: 	
		  Thanks Larry



Let me ask: did you put the antenna "inside" the fiberglass  fairing because of drag, or was it because of integrity reasons in case of crash?



Best

Carlos



Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 14/06/2017, Ã s 13:00, LarryRosen <N205EN> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I mounted mine on the wall of the tail cone, passenger side, near the cargo area.  I made a mount similar to the one Vans sells passenger://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1497441127-310-252&browse=airframe&product=bracket  The antenna is all the way in the rear under the tail fiberglass.  Many have put both the elt and the antenna in this same area.

 

 --------

 Larry Rosen

 #40356

 N205EN (reserved)

 &lt;http&gt;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470095#470095

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

See below .....

On 6/14/2017 10:56 AM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My question is, aren't elt antennas a transmitting antenna, just like your com antenna?

Other than the fact that they are vertically polarized their function is 
	


different.  You hope to never use the ELT antenna but you hope to use 

you com antennas a lot.  Since the new 406 Mhz. ELTs are using 

satellites for receptions ..... vastly different for the ground-based 

121.5 ELTs .... mounting the antenna on it's side (if it stays that way 

after impact) provides a much better signal for the satellite.

 	  Quote: 	
		     If so why are you not putting your com antennas inside of plane, tail cone, engine compartment.

Some do.  Search for Archer antennas.  Mostly mounted inside fiberglass 
	


wingtips.

 	  Quote: 	
		     Most elt antenna are flexible not rigid have not seen them torn off unless flipped and since we have vertical stab chances are slim that happening.

The FAA has come out with a SB (I think) on ELTs that are mounted with a 
	


velcro strap to prevent them from coming loose in severe deceleration 

.... because the have become disconnected from the antenna.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm still asking these questions and no one has answered them for me.

I hope this helps.  Remember that a round rod has more drag than most 
	


other shapes like airfoils.  Also, in my mind the crashes severe enough 

to cause concern over antenna orientation/connection only need the 

antenna for searchers to find the remains.  My 406 ELT only came with  a 

whip so I velcro'd a rubber ducky antenna to to ELT to use it as a 

portable.  I also plan on carrying a PLB.  Many options are available to 

help rescuers find you.

Linn

[quote]

 Sent from my iPad



> On Jun 14, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

> Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

> With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

>

> As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

> My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

>

>> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

>> 

>> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

>> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

>> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

>> -Bob Newman

>> N541RV

>> www.tcwtech.com

>> --

rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Patrick,

Certified Aircraft vs. Experiments

Antenna polarity and signal broadcast effectiveness are based on the antenna "tuned" within spec for the specific frequency.Â  Comms often have problems at the higher freqs due to tuning in the mid range of a wide spectrum.Â  ELTs are the limp appendage of aircraft electronics.

As a now retired Airline Avionics tech who regularly tested signal and battery strength as well as squitter data stream broadcast accuracy, the antenna was alway vertical. A portion on the radiating end was always outside the aircraftÂ skin and the ground plane was always effectively a solid ground-plane.Â  We even do annual drop testing.

Many experimentals I have inspected do not have batteries which comply with the FARs and their antennas are hidden for builder decided cosmetic reasons which produce little effective broadcast range.Â  The Vertical airfoil usually provides adequate protection to continue broadcasting after an unintended hard landing.

Compromise is one of the actions that reasonable, well educated people deviate from regulated norms.Â  Your mileage will vary. Â 406 has helped a lot. 121.5 remains a joke.Â  We tested all three frequencies every year on the correct minutes after the hour or grounded the non-compliant elts or worse the aircraft from beloved revenue production.

ULBs and Orange (black) boxes are another subject we do not screw with.Â  We have no latitude to play with their intended purpose and periodic testing.

John Cox

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 7:56 AM, Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net (jump2(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net (jump2(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 My question is, aren't elt antennas a transmitting antenna, just like your com antenna? If so why are you not putting your com antennas inside of plane, tail cone, engine compartment. Most elt antenna are flexible not rigid have not seen them torn off unless flipped and since we have vertical stab chances are slim that happening.

 I'm still asking these questions and no one has answered them for me.

 Sent from my iPad

 > On Jun 14, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)AVIATING.COM (kellym(at)AVIATING.COM)>

 >

 > Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 > Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.Â  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 > With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 >

 > As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 > My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

 >

 >> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:Â  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.Â  Â  This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.Â  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.Â  Â  The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.Â  Â  The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.Â  Â  (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

 >> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

 >> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.Â  Â I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

 >> -Bob Newman

 >> N541RV

 >> www.tcwtech.com

 >> --

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Our local DAR is a bit ridiculous too.  He has a hard time understanding the differences between the two.   I went ahead and spent the extra cash to fly a DAR in from 700 miles away who had experience in the E-AB world.   



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 My only intent was to point out the ELT is definitely on the DAR radar as a sensitive issue.    In our area there's essentially no practical choice in DAR's anymore.   (For hundreds of miles).  Knowing his hot button issues was the key to a smooth an efficient approval.   

 

 As in all things we need to pick our battles. 

 

 lastly sorry for all the references to DER, I meant DAR.     

 

 All the work we've been doing on our STC has DER on my brain.  

 

 Bob Newman

 Www.tcwtech.com 

 

 

 

 

 

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

> Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

> With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

> 

> As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

> My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

> 

>> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

>> 

>> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

>> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

>> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

>> -Bob Newman

>> N541RV

>> www.tcwtech.com

>> --

rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Many experimental ELTs are effectively dysfunctional or obsolete after installation.Â  Most tests are done by turning on the Comm to 121.5 and thinking being 5 feet away will work in the real recovery - location arena.Â  How many have 406 tested annually?Â  How many have 243 tested? Many owners/operators do not install correct replacement batteries and correctly test batteries or replace non-compliants on the correct schedule.

Find an avionics shop that will test all three and provide a written report of compliance every 5 to 10 years.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Our local DAR is a bit ridiculous too.Â  He has a hard time understanding the differences between the two.Â  Â I went ahead and spent the extra cash to fly a DAR in from 700 miles away who had experience in the E-AB world.

 

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 > On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >

 > My only intent was to point out the ELT is definitely on the DAR radar as a sensitive issue.Â  Â  In our area there's essentially no practical choice in DAR's anymore.Â  Â (For hundreds of miles).Â  Knowing his hot button issues was the key to a smooth an efficient approval.

 >

 > As in all things we need to pick our battles.

 >

 > lastly sorry for all the references to DER, I meant DAR.

 >

 > All the work we've been doing on our STC has DER on my brain.

 >

 > Bob Newman

 > Www.tcwtech.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)AVIATING.COM (kellym(at)AVIATING.COM)>

 >>

 >> Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 >> Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.Â  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 >> With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 >>

 >> As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 >> My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

 >>

 >>> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

 >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >>> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:Â  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.Â  Â  This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.Â  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.Â  Â  The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.Â  Â  The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.Â  Â  (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

 >>> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

 >>> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.Â  Â I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

 >>> -Bob Newman

 >>> N541RV

 >>> www.tcwtech.com

 >>> --

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Pretty soon ATC will know pretty much exactly where we are all the time... won't that pretty much take care of knowing where the plane crashed?



       From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 10:53 AM

 Subject: Re: ELT and ELT antenna placement

  

 

Many experimental ELTs are effectively dysfunctional or obsolete after installation.  Most tests are done by turning on the Comm to 121.5 and thinking being 5 feet away will work in the real recovery - location arena.  How many have 406 tested annually?  How many have 243 tested? Many owners/operators do not install correct replacement batteries and correctly test batteries or replace non-compliants on the correct schedule.

Find an avionics shop that will test all three and provide a written report of compliance every 5 to 10 years.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Our local DAR is a bit ridiculous too.  He has a hard time understanding the differences between the two.   I went ahead and spent the extra cash to fly a DAR in from 700 miles away who had experience in the E-AB world.

 

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 > On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >

 > My only intent was to point out the ELT is definitely on the DAR radar as a sensitive issue.    In our area there's essentially no practical choice in DAR's anymore.   (For hundreds of miles).  Knowing his hot button issues was the key to a smooth an efficient approval.

 >

 > As in all things we need to pick our battles.

 >

 > lastly sorry for all the references to DER, I meant DAR.

 >

 > All the work we've been doing on our STC has DER on my brain.

 >

 > Bob Newman

 > Www.tcwtech.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)AVIATING.COM (kellym(at)AVIATING.COM)>

 >>

 >> Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 >> Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 >> With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 >>

 >> As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 >> My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

 >>

 >>> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

 >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >>> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.    This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.    The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.    The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.    (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

 >>> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

 >>> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.   I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

 >>> -Bob Newman

 >>> N541RV

 >>> www.tcwtech.com

 >>> --

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

John,

I'm not sure of the basis of your statements. The reg only does not state that 3 frequencies must be tested. 243 is produced via a harmonic off the 121.5, so it will be of similar strength and quality, The reg was written before 406 came about, and thus is not really addressed. the units I am familiar with have self test function. There was/is an advisory circular on how to do the test. IIRC it called for using an AM radio tuned away from any stations to hear the sweep of the ELT.Â  Takes some effort to hook up the wrong battery to the first generation ELTs, because each case was different size and different brand wouldn't fit. They are still legal, 40+ years after the original TSO....they were and are a joke, but legal.

As for the newer generation 121.5 that call for a specific brand of alkaline battery...who cares if you install Duracell iinstead of Energizer or vice versa, as long as it has an expiration date on it. Who keeps a log of in use time to determine if batteries have accumulated 1 hour or more of use?

With ADS-B, PLRBs, Spot, etc. the ELT really has become more of a regulatory nuisance than a significant rescue tool. Some of us were around to install the 1st generation units. In fact, I was close to some of the aviators that spent months searching for the two Congressmen that vanished. To this day, no sign of the aircraft has ever been found. With melting glaciers, maybe that will change.

I seriously do not get the concern about vertical. What percentage of crashes either arrive on the gear or right side up? Land in tree tops and most any external antennas will be ripped off. I once took a fleet of armored vehicles through uncut forest of young, small trees. Before we left the woods, not one of the shielded lights or antennas remained.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:42 AM, John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com (rv10pro(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Many experimental ELTs are effectively dysfunctional or obsolete after installation.Â  Most tests are done by turning on the Comm to 121.5 and thinking being 5 feet away will work in the real recovery - location arena.Â  How many have 406 tested annually?Â  How many have 243 tested? Many owners/operators do not install correct replacement batteries and correctly test batteries or replace non-compliants on the correct schedule.

Find an avionics shop that will test all three and provide a written report of compliance every 5 to 10 years.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)>

 Our local DAR is a bit ridiculous too.Â  He has a hard time understanding the differences between the two.Â  Â I went ahead and spent the extra cash to fly a DAR in from 700 miles away who had experience in the E-AB world.

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >

 > My only intent was to point out the ELT is definitely on the DAR radar as a sensitive issue.Â  Â  In our area there's essentially no practical choice in DAR's anymore.Â  Â (For hundreds of miles).Â  Knowing his hot button issues was the key to a smooth an efficient approval.

 >

 > As in all things we need to pick our battles.

 >

 > lastly sorry for all the references to DER, I meant DAR.

 >

 > All the work we've been doing on our STC has DER on my brain.

 >

 > Bob Newman

 > Www.tcwtech.com

 	  Quote: 	

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >> On Jun 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)AVIATING.COM (kellym(at)AVIATING.COM)>

 >>

 >> Good advice, and grounds to select a different DAR.

 >> Yes, TSO requirements call for the antenna to be no more than xx degrees from vertical. If the TSO writers can assure me of where vertical will be after the crash, I would be happy to comply.Â  If a plane flips, the antenna sticking out of the fuselage will break off, leaving you with nothing. The bulkhead works fine as a ground plane. There are lots of issues with ELT regs that don't make some authorities happy, like most use telephone cable to connect to remote switch. Of course that wire doesn't meet burn specs. I'm sure I am preaching to the choir.

 >> With ADS-B there is a track of the aircraft until it goes below ground station coverage, so the ELT only helps find the plane within the few miles it could travel below a few hundred feet on its way to impact.

 >>

 >> As for the Cleveland brake issue, that is example of DER denying validity of FAA/PMA and sTC approvals. Most Cleveland brakes are either PMA approved or STC approved with the standard locknut without drilled head bolts. Some older Clevelands did not have the locknut feature and did use drilled head bolts. I have owned planes with and without the locknut. Installed Cleveland conversion kit for single engine Cessnas and flew the plane for 23 years without safety wired bolts. A DER should not be questioning a part that has had FAA approval for over 40 years, or should be petitioning the ACO that approved the part for an AD if it is so unsafe. Of course obtaining 4 drilled head bolts of right size to placate the DER is minor deal, and you could replace them with the original bolts the minute the DER departed.

 >> My DAR was a little concerned about some interference on my stick at the far right/nose up position. Of course the stick could not reach that area of travel with any pilot in the seat, even Twiggy.

 >>

 >>> On 6/14/2017 6:02 AM, Bob-tcw wrote:

 >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com (rnewman(at)tcwtech.com)>

 >>> One very important issue on the ELT antenna:Â  Although many have mounted the antenna and the elt under the fiberglass tail fairing, this does not meet the TSO requirements for antenna as it was tested with the ELT.Â  Â  This was an absolute issue for the DER I used to inspect my plane.Â  This was a go/no go issue, not negotiable.Â  Â  The TSO requires the antenna must be mounted to a ground plane and be within a certain angle with respect to vertical to comply.Â  Â  The only suitable location was to mount the antenna to the tail cone by drilling a hole through the aluminum skin.Â  Â  (for me this was traumatic as I had worked to hide every antenna on the top surface of the airplane)

 >>> Ask your perspective DER for his list of go/no go issues prior to his visit, it will likely save you an extra trip.

 >>> (Another example of issues from the DER was his unwillingness to accept that Cleveland brake calipers are held together with bolts that are not safety wired, but instead utilize a locking thread patch.Â  Â I had to change them to drilled head bolts with safety wire prior to his visit)

 >>> -Bob Newman

 >>> N541RV

 >>> www.tcwtech.com

 >>> --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: ELT and ELT antenna placement

Hey guys,

I think we need to take it a bit easier with the DARs. After all, they are direct or indirect FAA employees, and their job is to see to it that the rules are obeyed. The rules say the ELT has to be TSO'd, and the TSO details antenna mounting. I certainly wish the rules all ended with, "...but use common sense or good judgement....". But that is certainly not the FAA way. So complain - but the complaints should go to the FAA.

Not to change the subject, but I hope everyone has noted the latest FAA craziness: If you now are flying under BasicMed you may act as PIC; but you may not act as a required safety pilot if the PIC is under the hood. Where's the logic in that?

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: ELT and ELT antenna placement

You are absolutely correct. Not to mention that you can change anything 

you want as soon as the DAR leaves the premises.



On 6/14/2017 2:29 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hey guys,

 I think we need to take it a bit easier with the DARs. After all, they are direct or indirect FAA employees, and their job is to see to it that the rules are obeyed. The rules say the ELT has to be TSO'd, and the TSO details antenna mounting. I certainly wish the rules all ended with, "...but use common sense or good judgement....". But that is certainly not the FAA way. So complain - but the complaints should go to the FAA.

 Not to change the subject, but I hope everyone has noted the latest FAA craziness: If you now are flying under BasicMed you may act as PIC; but you may not act as a required safety pilot if the PIC is under the hood. Where's the logic in that?

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470131#470131

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

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