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Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17

All,



Just closing the loop on this discussion- after talking with both B&C 

and Earth-X about this, I began to realize that what I was seeing was 

normal behavior for this type of setup.  I made the first flight of the 

aircraft a couple weeks ago and now have about five hours of flight data 

(engine monitor data) to look at.  The voltage does start out low but 

once takeoff power is applied, the voltage slowly climbs to 14.55V over 

about a minute and remains there for the duration of the flight.



I have informed both companies of the outcome.  Both have been excellent 

to deal with- particularly B&C who sent me a new regulator when it 

initially appeared that it was defective.



Hopefully this will help someone else in the future.



Regards,



Jeff Point



Milwaukee

On 7/11/17 10:04 PM, Jeff Point wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 All,



 The good news from today is that I successfully ran my freshly 

 overhauled O-200 today in preparation for a FAA inspection in a few 

 weeks.  The bad news is that I am getting no alternator output at 

 all.  The alternator is a B&C 200G PM dynamo, wired per Z-17 (no 

 master contactor.)  Running the engine between idle and 1800 RPM saw 

 no change in bus voltage, which stayed at the same 13.1V as it did 

 with the engine not running.



 Troubleshooting so far- besides checking all wiring connections, I 

 verified that the OV relay is working and that I wired it correctly.  

 I verified that the alternator's raw output was as expected (15-25VAC, 

 increasing with speed.)  I measured voltage at the capacitor (just 

 downstream of the regulator) and it was the same 13.1 and did not vary 

 with speed.  Disconnecting the regulator I verified that there is zero 

 volts coming out of the regulator, although I understand from the 

 troubleshooting documents that it must have bus voltage applied in 

 order to output, so I'm thinking this doesn't mean much.



 Is this as simple as a bad regulator?  I'm going to call B & C first 

 thing tomorrow but I thought I'd check here first.



 Thanks



 Jeff Point



 Milwaukee

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17

At 09:55 PM 9/5/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com>



 All,



 Just closing the loop on this discussion- after talking with both B&C and Earth-X about this, I began to realize that what I was seeing was normal behavior for this type of setup.  I made the first flight of the aircraft a couple weeks ago and now have about five hours of flight data (engine monitor data) to look at.  The voltage does start out low but once takeoff power is applied, the voltage slowly climbs to 14.55V over about a minute and remains there for the duration of the flight. 	


   Sorry I didn't pick up on that . . . the EarthX

   battery is a much less compliant current sink

   than a lead-acid . . . hence willing to take

   on recharge currents that combine with your

   system loads to depress alternator output until

   the battery tops off.



   I'm working on some new regulator control and

   voltage monitoring philosophies for future

   designs . . . designs that I hope will be

   compatible with both lead-acid and lithium

   technologies and I've noted the effects you're

   seeing now. This will be limited to 'small'

   alternators like the SD8 and 200G and to a lesser

   degree with the built in PM alternators like

   Rotax.



 

 

   Bob . . .

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17

No worries Bob and thanks.  We're all still learning about this       new LiFePo stuff.     

Talking with Nathan B at Oshkosh he said he was working on a new       regulator design for the PM alternators (might be what you're       working on.)  I offered to be a beta tester as I have a data       recording engine monitor and could possibly gather some useful       data.  I have data from my last 5 hours that I can provide if you       think it would be of any value.  It's interesting to look at the       voltage rise vs. RPM.  There is even a slight rise during runup       that I didn't notice while running up, but is clear from the data.     

Jeff

          

     On 9/6/17 1:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls,       III wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         At 09:55 PM 9/5/2017, you wrote:

               	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message           posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com> (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)

           

           All,

           

           Just closing the loop on this discussion- after talking with           both B&C           and Earth-X about this, I began to realize that what I was           seeing was           normal behavior for this type of setup.  I made the first           flight of           the aircraft a couple weeks ago and now have about five hours           of flight           data (engine monitor data) to look at.  The voltage does start           out           low but once takeoff power is applied, the voltage slowly           climbs to           14.55V over about a minute and remains there for the duration           of the           flight. 	
       

         Sorry I didn't pick up on that . . . the EarthX

         battery is a much less compliant current sink

         than a lead-acid . . . hence willing to take

         on recharge currents that combine with your

         system loads to depress alternator output until

         the battery tops off.

       

         I'm working on some new regulator control and

         voltage monitoring philosophies for future

         designs . . . designs that I hope will be

         compatible with both lead-acid and lithium

         technologies and I've noted the effects you're

         seeing now. This will be limited to 'small'

         alternators like the SD8 and 200G and to a lesser

         degree with the built in PM alternators like

         Rotax.

       

       

                

             Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: Troubleshooting 200G/ Z-17

At 07:58 PM 9/6/2017, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  No worries Bob and thanks.  We're all still learning about this new LiFePo stuff.



 Talking with Nathan B at Oshkosh he said he was working on a new regulator design for the PM alternators (might be what you're working on.)  I offered to be a beta tester as I have a data recording engine monitor and could possibly gather some useful data.  I have data from my last 5 hours that I can provide if you think it would be of any value.  It's interesting to look at the voltage rise vs. RPM.  There is even a slight rise during runup that I didn't notice while running up, but is clear from the data.



 Jeff 	


   Absolutely! Thank you. I'll have a bench-test

   article that will not be mechanically pure to

   the production drawings but electronically

   identical and air worthy.  I'd be pleased to

   exploit your offer. 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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