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a compass question

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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: a compass question

Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the â€œNavigatorâ€ compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.



I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slackâ€¦i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.



And Iâ€™m wondering what that "optimum positionâ€ might beâ€¦?â€¦



With only â€œhangar flyingâ€ experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraftâ€™s centerlineâ€¦



A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerlineâ€¦



Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?



Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?â€¦or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for whatâ€™s become a little anachronism? 



Advice and counsel appreciated,



Fred

A194

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:29 pm Post subject: a compass question

Fred, Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it!  

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2019-02-19 19:52, Fred Klein wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>



Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the "Navigator" compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.



I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slack...i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.



And I'm wondering what that "optimum position" might be...?...



With only "hangar flying" experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraft's centerline...



A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline...



Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?



Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?...or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for what's become a little anachronism? 



Advice and counsel appreciated,



Fred

A194

ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

ics.com

.com

.matronics.com/contribution

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: a compass question

thank you David 	  Quote: 	
		  On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:



Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it! 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject: a compass question

[img]cid:572B3767-7A89-4816-BC78-4498DFF1C6D3[/img]



Hi Fred,

I incorporated a compass â€˜holderâ€™ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.

Great position to read the compass with a compass swing card reading on the side.

However, I do believe obsolescence has crept in regarding a compass with all the other 

direction finding instruments of today. We have to have one as an electrical failure is always a risk.





All the best,

Tim





Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)

Mob +64 210640221





On 20/02/2019, at 10:37 AM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  thank you David 	  Quote: 	
		  On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:



Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it! 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject: a compass question

Fred





[img]cid:ii_jscbrq451[/img]



Â stuck mine on the roofÂ - I reckon that is what david recommends.Â  I assumed that it might be influenced by the electronicsÂ if I stuck it on top of the instrument module



Will

William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 4:21 PM Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the â€œNavigatorâ€ compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

 

 I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slackâ€¦i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

 

 And Iâ€™m wondering what that "optimum positionâ€ might beâ€¦?â€¦

 

 With only â€œhangar flyingâ€ experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraftâ€™s centerlineâ€¦

 

 A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerlineâ€¦

 

 Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

 

 Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?â€¦or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for whatâ€™s become a little anachronism? 

 

 Advice and counsel appreciated,

 

 Fred

 A194

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:41 pm Post subject: a compass question

Here in canada we are lucky in that a simple tiny automotive suction cup ball compass meets our amateur built reg's, with all normal business being taken care of with the panel glass these days.

Cheers,

Pete



On Feb 19, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  thank you David 	  Quote: 	
		  On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:



Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it! 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:41 pm Post subject: a compass question

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Feb 19, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:

I incorporated a compass â€˜holderâ€™ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.

	




Holy cow Timâ€¦what an outstanding set upâ€¦thanks for the pix!â€¦



BTW, I could not resist an allusion to â€œheavy ironâ€ by incorporating a few toggles in the overhead.



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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: a compass question

Looks great Fred, well done.Tim



Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)

Mob +64 210640221





On 20/02/2019, at 1:41 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  On Feb 19, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:

I incorporated a compass â€˜holderâ€™ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.

	




Holy cow Timâ€¦what an outstanding set upâ€¦thanks for the pix!â€¦



BTW, I could not resist an allusion to â€œheavy ironâ€ by incorporating a few toggles in the overhead.



<DSCN7310.jpeg>

Hitchflight

Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:15 am Post subject: Re: a compass question

Positioned high up works for me as well.



The point of correct compass position was underscored to me when my  small Smiths Compass leaked fluid at high altitude and became stuck. Consequently giving a wrong indication of direction.



Back in the hangar I removed the  Smiths compass, thinking that I would fix sometime. Meantime I intended to use a large new Garmin Compass that I had. I lined up the aircraft with known directions. Then exercised a compass swing check. The deviation was consistently severe, but also varied in severity dependant on direction. I concluded that nearby wiring was disturbing the Garmin Compass unit. 



A few days later went to Cooke & Son in Hull and they fixed my Smiths Compass. Back home put the unit back in position. Perfect, no deviation. 



So I guess my comment would be some compass units seem more sensitive to interference than others. The Smiths uses a special oil and dampers. The small size of the Smiths unit was perhaps also a factor.



For those who do the UK biennial IRR check, the compass is one of the required instruments, though weirdly a GPS isnâ€™t..



Bob

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:41 am Post subject: a compass question

Mike, 

Balancing your prop will get rid of most of that also.  Even at .07 (considered a fine balance) one can feel the shaking at this out of balance condition on a two blade.  Get the prop down to .04 or better on a two blade prop helps vibration  quite a bit.  Three blade props feel smoother because they change the frequency of the pulses but they two should get a very fine balance. 

  

We have all gotten lazy as propeller manufacturers all statically balance their props.  However the spinner and on some gearbox engines, the rotational balance of the engine/prop together still need to be fine tuned. 

  

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of duanefamly(at)aol.com <duanefamly(at)aol.com>

 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:24:39 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: a compass question  

 

   Hey Fred,

 

 

 While I’m not using the same Navigator compass as you, my compass is mounted centered on top of the instrument panel halfway back from the front edge. The problem that arose once I started flying, and it may only be my problem, is that this area is not  very rigid and my compass vibrates…..a lot. Enough so that I added some stiffening to the underside of the instrument module. While it did help, it did not alleviate it completely. I just wanted you be aware prior to your decision as this may have some adverse  effects for your compass. 

 

 

 Mike Duane

 N377EA Europa XS Conventional Gear

 Las Vegas, NV

 

  

 

 Sent from Windows Mail

 

 

 

  From: Fred  Klein (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)

 Sent: ýTuesdayý, ýFebruaryý ý19ý, ý2019 ý11ý:ý52ý ýAM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 

 

 

  --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com>

 

 Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the “Navigator” compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

 

 I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slack…i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

 

 And I’m wondering what that "optimum position” might be…?…

 

 With only “hangar flying” experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraft’s centerline…

 

 A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline…

 

 Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

 

 Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?…or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for what’s become a little anachronism? 

 

 Advice and counsel appreciated,

 

 Fred

 A194

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