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Auxiliary Battery

 
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Greg McFarlane



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Albany Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 3:57 am    Post subject: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

Planning a Dual Electronic Ignition for the RV10 and looking at the options for charging an Auxiliary Battery. This is a single Alternator, single main/cranking Battery system. Looks like the simplest charging system for the Auxiliary (apart from the integrated battery units like TCW etc) is using a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) The one I’m looking at is a very compact unit that cuts in at 13.2volts and cuts out at 12.8volts. Is anyone using a VSR like that ? and has it been satisfactory ? .... Or any other ideas appreciated.

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Lenny Iszak



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 4:47 am    Post subject: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

I used a VSR early on. Two versions, a BlueSea and then an australian one. They both had a pretty bad parasitic draw. Removed it and installed a Xantrex charger instead and that worked well. I used Panasonic SLA batteries and when I tested them every year they needed to be swapped out. The last set I was trying to buy at BatteriesPlus were almost completely discharged. They were basically abused before sold. A lot of batteries are.
For the last couple of years I’ve been using two TCW batteries, a 6A one for the Efis screens and an a 3A one for the Lightspeed ignition. I’m finally happy with that setup and feel it’s safe to rely on if needed. It’s a very well thought out design and now they sell replacement battery packs too.

Lenny
Quote:
On May 27, 2021, at 8:07 AM, Greg McFarlane <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Planning a Dual Electronic Ignition for the RV10 and looking at the options for charging an Auxiliary Battery. This is a single Alternator, single main/cranking Battery system. Looks like the simplest charging system for the Auxiliary (apart from the integrated battery units like TCW etc) is using a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) The one I’m looking at is a very compact unit that cuts in at 13.2volts and cuts out at 12.8volts. Is anyone using a VSR like that ? and has it been satisfactory ? .... Or any other ideas appreciated.




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Lenny Iszak
Palm City, FL
2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs
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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 177
Location: MS

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 5:40 am    Post subject: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:03 AM Greg McFarlane <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg McFarlane" <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)>

Planning a Dual Electronic Ignition for the RV10 and looking at the options for charging an Auxiliary Battery. This is a single Alternator, single main/cranking Battery system. Looks like the simplest charging system for the Auxiliary (apart from the integrated battery units like TCW etc) is using a VSR (voltage sensitive relay)  The one I’m looking at is a very compact unit that cuts in at 13.2volts and cuts out at 12.8volts. Is anyone using a VSR like that ? and has it been satisfactory ? .... Or any other ideas appreciated.

It's kinda hard to make a solid recommendation without knowing how you're using the aux battery. The simplest thing to do to isolate a battery that is 'offline' in normal use is to use a Schottky power diode between the regular bus and the battery positive. The Schottky has lower forward voltage drop than a regular diode, and as the battery nears full charge, the voltage drop across the diode diminishes to as low as 150 mV. If the aux battery has no loads attached in normal operation, it will eventually fully charge and stay charged, as long as your bus is at the proper level for charging normal SLA batteries (~14-3-14.7V).
The diode itself will prevent the battery from powering the bus, but you must manage how the load(s) connect to the aux battery. If you simply add a tie to the desired equipment, without isolating the equipment from the bus, then activating the tie will allow the aux battery to power the bus. Some equipment (ex: GRT & some other EFIS brands) provide multiple diode-isolated power inputs. In cases like that, the aux bat would come online automatically if bus power is lost, but the device would remain powered up after you intentionally power down the bus so you'd have to remember to turn off the device manually after your normal shutdown process at the end of the flight.
Have you looked at all the info in the Aeroelectric Connection book and 'Z figures'?
Charlie


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rick.mcbride(at)me.com
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

Lightspeed provides the below wiring scheme for a dual battery solution. The second battery is isolated to run one ignition. That battery is isolated via the Schottky diode Charlie discusses below. I did this on my -8 and it has worked flawlessly for 1000 hours. I got a very nice diode from Perihelion Design (https://periheliondesign.com/ ),that we put in our -10 project. Unfortunately, it appears they no longer carry the diode. But it might be worth checking with them to see if they can provide one.

http://lightspeed-aero.com/Manuals/PS_Diagram.htm
Rick

Quote:
On May 27, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:



On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:03 AM Greg McFarlane <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Greg McFarlane" <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com (grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com)>

Planning a Dual Electronic Ignition for the RV10 and looking at the options for charging an Auxiliary Battery. This is a single Alternator, single main/cranking Battery system. Looks like the simplest charging system for the Auxiliary (apart from the integrated battery units like TCW etc) is using a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) The one I’m looking at is a very compact unit that cuts in at 13.2volts and cuts out at 12.8volts. Is anyone using a VSR like that ? and has it been satisfactory ? .... Or any other ideas appreciated.

It's kinda hard to make a solid recommendation without knowing how you're using the aux battery. The simplest thing to do to isolate a battery that is 'offline' in normal use is to use a Schottky power diode between the regular bus and the battery positive. The Schottky has lower forward voltage drop than a regular diode, and as the battery nears full charge, the voltage drop across the diode diminishes to as low as 150 mV. If the aux battery has no loads attached in normal operation, it will eventually fully charge and stay charged, as long as your bus is at the proper level for charging normal SLA batteries (~14-3-14.7V).
The diode itself will prevent the battery from powering the bus, but you must manage how the load(s) connect to the aux battery. If you simply add a tie to the desired equipment, without isolating the equipment from the bus, then activating the tie will allow the aux battery to power the bus. Some equipment (ex: GRT & some other EFIS brands) provide multiple diode-isolated power inputs. In cases like that, the aux bat would come online automatically if bus power is lost, but the device would remain powered up after you intentionally power down the bus so you'd have to remember to turn off the device manually after your normal shutdown process at the end of the flight.
Have you looked at all the info in the Aeroelectric Connection book and 'Z figures'?
Charlie



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rjones560xl@gmail.com



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

I might consider a standby alternator from B and C that mounts on the vacuum pump pad. I personally don’t like electronic ignition systems that are dependent on ships power. I installed the P-Mags on my 10 because they generate their own power.

Robert Jones

Quote:
On May 27, 2021, at 5:02 AM, Greg McFarlane <grbcmcfarlane(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Planning a Dual Electronic Ignition for the RV10 and looking at the options for charging an Auxiliary Battery. This is a single Alternator, single main/cranking Battery system. Looks like the simplest charging system for the Auxiliary (apart from the integrated battery units like TCW etc) is using a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) The one I’m looking at is a very compact unit that cuts in at 13.2volts and cuts out at 12.8volts. Is anyone using a VSR like that ? and has it been satisfactory ? .... Or any other ideas appreciated.




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502064#502064











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Robert J Jones
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Greg McFarlane



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Albany Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Auxiliary Battery Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply’s/inputs. Because this is still in the planning stage and taking on board the comments I may now reconsider my previous comment that a VSR could be the simplest solution for charging the Auxiliary Battery. ..... I’ll be using the LightSpeed recommendation circuit for powering (and charging) one ignition from the Auxiliary Battery. Instead of the Schottky Diode or a VCR in that circuit, the good old tried and proven Master Type Solenoid could be used. The activation switch, powered from the Auxiliary Battery could be located near the ignition switches. Can’t envisage any disadvantages, but advantages over the Schottky, VCR and DcDc Charger. would be. Readily available, robust, reliable and economical components. No standby power consumption (around 10mA) with most VSRs. With the correct gauge connections the Auxiliary Battery could be used with the Main Battery for starting if needed. .... Easily connect or disconnect both battery’s to maintain two seperate power storage sources for Electronic Ignitions. ...... Comments invited. Cheers from Western Australia

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