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RV-10 flap extend speeds
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ngautier(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:52 pm    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max

I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.

Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363

Sent from my iPhone


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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:32 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.  I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.  Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me.  Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage.  Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.

-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)>

I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail.       122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg.  96 kias max
3rd notch,  33 deg.  87 kias max

I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.

Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363

Sent from my iPhone

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cderk



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:40 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

I think that most of the avionics suites these days do not allow the flaps to be extended above a certain programmable airspeed. Ive got mine wired through my VPX and I know they won’t deploy. I believe that Garmin has a similar setting.
Charlie
Quote:
On May 4, 2021, at 6:31 AM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.
-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at? Regards, Nick Gautier N363TG SN 40363 Sent from my iPhone =========== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========




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leok4880(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:52 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts 

Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and easy to remember.
I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the handling of the plane with each.
Leo
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.  I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.  Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me.  Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage.  Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.

-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)>

I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail.       122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg.  96 kias max
3rd notch,  33 deg.  87 kias max

I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.

Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363

Sent from my iPhone

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partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 536
Location: Granbury Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:50 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Just an FYI concerning the reflex flap setting.... for whatever reason (MT prop with two batteries in back?) putting the flaps in reflex in cruise for me only generates an increase in ground speed about 5% of the time. Suggestion: play with the setting in cruise to make sure you're actually using the most efficient setting.

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 05:44:44 AM CDT, Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> wrote:




Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.

-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)>

I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max

I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.

Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363

Sent from my iPhone

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amekler



Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:52 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch87 kts for full
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880(at)gmail.com> wrote:

I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts

Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and easy to remember.
I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the handling of the plane with each.
Leo
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is notan instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.

-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)>

I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max

I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.

Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363

Sent from my iPhone

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===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========








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partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 536
Location: Granbury Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Can anyone chime in as to why there would be a maximum speed for flaps in trail????? Most planes don't even have a reflex flap setting. Would that mean that they shouldn't go faster than 104kts, or 122kts (depending on who's numbers we want to use.).

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 08:09:13 AM CDT, Alan Mekler MD <amekler(at)metrocast.net> wrote:




My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch87 kts for fullSent from my iPhone
Quote:
On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880(at)gmail.com> wrote:I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts
Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and easy to remember.
I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll.

I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the handling of the plane with each.

Leo

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttleand back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.
-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ngautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max I talked to the technical desk at Van’s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe’s and how the numbers were arrived at? Regards, Nick Gautier N363TG SN 40363 Sent from my iPhone =========== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========






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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:01 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions).

They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.

I plotted the trail position (0° by my reference), flaps half (15°) and flaps full (30°) on a chart and determined where 10° and 20° would fall on the curve.

So on my airplane I have -3° (reflex), 0° (Trail w/ airspeed limitation), 10° (w/ airspeed limitation), 20° (w/airspeed limitation), and 30° (w/airspeed limitation).

I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices along the way.

Phil

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On May 4, 2021, at 7:44 AM, Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:

The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions).

They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.

I plotted the trail position (0° by my reference), flaps half (15°) and flaps full (30°) on a chart and determined where 10° and 20° would fall on the curve.

So on my airplane I have -3° (reflex), 0° (Trail w/ airspeed limitation), 10° (w/ airspeed limitation), 20° (w/airspeed limitation), and 30° (w/airspeed limitation).

I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices along the way.

Phil



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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2845

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Quote:
That's what I like to see.  A man with solid data. Wink  Thanks Phil!

For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's:
122 kts   0 degrees
96 kts  18 Degrees
87 kts  33 Degrees

These are rounded UP (less conservative) by less than 1 kt.  Maybe if you
have the ultra high precision airspeed indicator with 3 decimal point
resolution, and are a zen master RV-10 pilot, you can do the original math and fly
the .1 to .5 kts slower so you don't over speed the flaps.

Tim


On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote:

Quote:
The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans.   In my book it's on page 21.  (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions). They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.  I plotted the trail position (0° by my reference), flaps half (15°) and flaps full (30°) on a chart and determined where 10° and 20° would fall on the curve.   So on my airplane I have -3° (reflex),  0° (Trail w/ airspeed limitation), 10° (w/ airspeed limitation), 20° (w/airspeed limitation), and 30° (w/airspeed limitation).   I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices along the way.   Phil


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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 672

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:39 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Quote:
122 kts 0 degrees?Shouldn’t that be Vne? 122kts implies it’s going to be raining flaps all over the place. Since most of us cruise at a much higher airspeed. :^)



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 10:16 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds


Quote:
That's what I like to see. A man with solid data. Wink Thanks Phil!For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's:122 kts 0 degrees96 kts 18 Degrees
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On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote:
Quote:

The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions).

They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.

I plotted the trail position (0° by my reference), flaps half (15°) and flaps full (30°) on a chart and determined where 10° and 20° would fall on the curve.

So on my airplane I have -3° (reflex), 0° (Trail w/ airspeed limitation), 10° (w/ airspeed limitation), 20° (w/airspeed limitation), and 30° (w/airspeed limitation).

I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices along the way.

Phil



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Dave Saylor



Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 175
Location: GILROY, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:52 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Quote:
Phil nailed it.  It's still in the pdf plans that Van's sends out on a memory stick.  I got one earlier this year.


--Dave Saylor
SN0394   2025 hrs 


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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10’s. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on ‘in trail’ (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne.

I’ve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000’, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldn’t say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

How can I unsubscribe from the email list?

Thanks
Bobby

Quote:
On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:



As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10â?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on â?~in trailâ?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne.

Iâ?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000â?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldnâ?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better.

--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB




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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 177
Location: MS

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

On 5/4/2021 4:20 PM, Bobby Rocco wrote:
Quote:


How can I unsubscribe from the email list?

Thanks
Bobby
Instructions on the bottom of the email:

Quote:

> On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> 
>
> As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10â?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on â?~in trailâ?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne.
>
> Iâ?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000â?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldnâ?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696
>



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: RV-10 Flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies guys. I was hoping for more relief on Vfe’s. I have seen a POH with higher speeds but am reluctant to explore uncharted territory.

Here’s my real problem: I’m trying to develop sensible approach speed/flap configurations for IFR approaches. I saw a suggestion for 85 kias/18 deg flaps (2nd notch) as a final approach speed. I think I would like 90 kias better but that’s kind of close to the 96 kias limit on 18 deg flaps.

I tried 85kt/18deg but I found that my speed stability under the somewhat turbulent conditions I had was poor enough that my auto pilot was dropping out due to low airspeed on coupled approaches.

I ask for the group wisdom. Doesn’t look like I have much wiggle room on Vfe’s. What is the lowest sensible autopilot cut out speed (I have a Dynon auto pilot with my SkyView system)? Should I just use 90 kias with flaps in trail? What do you guys do?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
sn 40363


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2845

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject: RV-10 Flap extend speeds Reply with quote

I think I have mine to something like 75 or 80kts, because you're still
a ways from
a stall at that point. I just want to make sure that if I approach a
stall, the AP goes
off.  Other than that I'm not to worried about it.
Tim

On 5/5/2021 11:33 AM, Thomas Gautier wrote:
Quote:


Thanks for all the replies guys. I was hoping for more relief on Vfe’s. I have seen a POH with higher speeds but am reluctant to explore uncharted territory.

Here’s my real problem: I’m trying to develop sensible approach speed/flap configurations for IFR approaches. I saw a suggestion for 85 kias/18 deg flaps (2nd notch) as a final approach speed. I think I would like 90 kias better but that’s kind of close to the 96 kias limit on 18 deg flaps.

I tried 85kt/18deg but I found that my speed stability under the somewhat turbulent conditions I had was poor enough that my auto pilot was dropping out due to low airspeed on coupled approaches.

I ask for the group wisdom. Doesn’t look like I have much wiggle room on Vfe’s. What is the lowest sensible autopilot cut out speed (I have a Dynon auto pilot with my SkyView system)? Should I just use 90 kias with flaps in trail? What do you guys do?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
sn 40363


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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: RV-10 Flap extend speeds Reply with quote

Can you reconfigure your flap position controller so you get more flap stop options? That sounds like the solution you’re looking for.

10° Flaps (13° if you’re counting -3° as 0°) at 95-100kts yields positive control and still has the ability to slow down once you break out. I typically fly the approaches around 100 kts until we breakout. Going to absolute minimums I might slow it down a bit more.

But my flap controller allows me to set intermediate positions and not just -3°, 0°, 15°, and 30°.

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 5, 2021, at 10:37 AM, Thomas Gautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



Thanks for all the replies guys. I was hoping for more relief on Vfe’s. I have seen a POH with higher speeds but am reluctant to explore uncharted territory.

Here’s my real problem: I’m trying to develop sensible approach speed/flap configurations for IFR approaches. I saw a suggestion for 85 kias/18 deg flaps (2nd notch) as a final approach speed. I think I would like 90 kias better but that’s kind of close to the 96 kias limit on 18 deg flaps.

I tried 85kt/18deg but I found that my speed stability under the somewhat turbulent conditions I had was poor enough that my auto pilot was dropping out due to low airspeed on coupled approaches.

I ask for the group wisdom. Doesn’t look like I have much wiggle room on Vfe’s. What is the lowest sensible autopilot cut out speed (I have a Dynon auto pilot with my SkyView system)? Should I just use 90 kias with flaps in trail? What do you guys do?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
sn 40363








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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

IMHO you need to be prepared to fly several different configurations/speeds. I’ve flown into major airports where I was mixed with jet traffic, and ATC asked for ‘best possible speed’. OTOH that clearly doesn’t work well on a dark foggy night with visibilities right at 1/2 mile. So I practice:
120 kias no flaps for big city airports
100 kias flaps zero (in trail) for routine
85 kias flaps 20 (2nd notch) for anytime visibility is < 1 mile.
My autopilot is a Trio, and it is programed to lower the nose below 70 kias.


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2845

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: RV-10 flap extend speeds Reply with quote

I would say that Bob's right on.  I usually use 100kts for routine
approaches, if it isn't super low.
I can reconfigure the plane pretty quickly, and like the feel at 100kts
better and get gets you
there quicker.  Having he flaps to zero gets you done with that initial
flap switch push, so
you're ready for setup to landing.  And when it's low, I do slow down to
about 85kts and
get fully prepared for landing when I break out.

Even for just general landing practice, it's a good idea to practice
straight-in approaches
at speeds like 140kts, occasionally.   I've had plenty of times when
I've been asked to
keep my speed up due to jet or higher speed traffic following, so it's
nice practice
an expedited approach.  I find that with the right combination of
pitch/power/prop,
you can slow down pretty quickly and transition to landing from higher
speeds
real well in the RV-10.
Tim
On 5/5/2021 12:18 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
Quote:


IMHO you need to be prepared to fly several different configurations/speeds. I’ve flown into major airports where I was mixed with jet traffic, and ATC asked for ‘best possible speed’. OTOH that clearly doesn’t work well on a dark foggy night with visibilities right at 1/2 mile. So I practice:
120 kias no flaps for big city airports
100 kias flaps zero (in trail) for routine
85 kias flaps 20 (2nd notch) for anytime visibility is < 1 mile.
My autopilot is a Trio, and it is programed to lower the nose below 70 kias.

--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject: RV-10 Flap extend speeds Reply with quote

In my experience (now a bit over 1200hrs in the RV-10 with lots of IFR approaches in the generally yucky Pacific Northwest weather) 90kts is a nice stable approach speed and you don't need any flaps at all to do it.  (e.g., just set MP to about 11 inches and trim for 90kts; drop that to 9 inches with the same trim and down you go from the FAF with or without autopilot).  With a normal 3 degree ILS or LPV, you reach a 200 ft DH at 1/2 mile to the threshold (convenient for knowing whether you have the needed 200 and a half) and the -10 is so good slowing down that from the MAP if you see the runway you can go from even reflex to full flaps and slow from 90kts to say, 70kts and be ready to touch down by the time you are over the numbers.  (This is with the factory IO-540 and Hartzell blended airfoil prop -- YMMV).  And if you have to go missed, since you didn't have any flaps to reposition you just add power and retrim for a best rate climeout (also 90kts in my plane, though I tend to use 100-110 to improve cooling and it still climbs at 1500+ fpm.
The -10 is just remarkable with respect to controllability and how fast it can transition to different speeds at the low end of the envelope.  Not a pussycat, but a terrific tiger kitten.
-Dan Masys

N104LD
40447

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:38 AM Thomas Gautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Thomas Gautier <ngautier(at)earthlink.net (ngautier(at)earthlink.net)>

Thanks for all the replies guys. I was hoping for more relief on Vfe’s. I have seen a POH with higher speeds but am reluctant to explore uncharted territory.

Here’s my real problem: I’m trying to develop sensible approach speed/flap configurations for IFR approaches. I saw a suggestion for 85 kias/18 deg flaps (2nd notch) as a final approach speed. I think I would like 90 kias better but that’s kind of close to the 96 kias limit on 18 deg flaps.

I tried 85kt/18deg but I found that my speed stability under the somewhat turbulent conditions I had was poor enough that my auto pilot was dropping out due to low airspeed on coupled approaches.

I ask for the group wisdom. Doesn’t look like I have much wiggle room on Vfe’s. What is the lowest sensible autopilot cut out speed (I have a Dynon auto pilot with my SkyView system)? Should I just use 90 kias with flaps in trail? What do you guys do?

Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
sn 40363



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