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lehman(at)acanac.net
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 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/11/11 |
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I have compared filter torque at 3/4 to 1 additional turn (by hand) after
gasket contact, per the manufacturer's instruction, with the 18-22 lb-ft
Lycoming specification and consider the 18 lb-ft value to be excessive.
Mike
AA5
Time: 09:59:19 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
From: Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com>
Gary,
It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn
't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a war
ped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about
this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before
the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly giv
e way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on
t
he hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes t
hat's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end
i
s just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise g
rip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a hand
le is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-62894
09.html
Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubric
ant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of r
emoval, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn
't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to
22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapt
er plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your me
thod could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an
o
il filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged,
b
ut I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
-mel
On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style
s
|
trap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
| Quote: |
I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar ext
ension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a
|
24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working
at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it s
tuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched
a
ll the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I p
unched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through.
I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes o
n the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and th
e 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. =46rom there, I u
sed the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come
o
ff the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened
that there is no describing it.
| Quote: |
PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2
TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
|
| Quote: |
See pics.
This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remo
ve. This is the tightest one though.
|
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/11/11 |
|
|
3/4 to 1 turn is close, but the recommended torque for both Champion and
Tempest has been 16-18 ft-lb for a long time.
Cliff
On 3/12/2011 3:43 AM, lehman(at)acanac.net wrote:
| Quote: |
I have compared filter torque at 3/4 to 1 additional turn (by hand) after
gasket contact, per the manufacturer's instruction, with the 18-22 lb-ft
Lycoming specification and consider the 18 lb-ft value to be excessive.
Mike
AA5
Time: 09:59:19 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
From: Mel Beckman<mel(at)becknet.com>
Gary,
It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn
't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a war
ped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about
this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before
the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly giv
e way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on
t
he hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes t
hat's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end
i
s just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise g
rip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a hand
le is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-62894
09.html
Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubric
ant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of r
emoval, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn
't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to
22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapt
er plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your me
thod could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an
o
il filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged,
b
ut I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
-mel
On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt<teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
>
> About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style
s
trap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
>
> I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar ext
ension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a
24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working
at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it s
tuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched
a
ll the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I p
unched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through.
I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes o
n the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and th
e 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. =46rom there, I u
sed the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come
o
ff the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened
that there is no describing it.
>
> PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2
TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
>
> See pics.
>
> This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remo
ve. This is the tightest one though.
>
|
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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mel(at)becknet.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/11/11 |
|
|
Cliff, you're right on the torque value. My memory was faulty, which is why I always look it up every time 
The reason for a specific torque is because that range has been demonstrated by lycoming, after thousands of hours of engine cell tests, to be what you need to keep the filter from vibrating loose as the gasket shrinks over time, without damaging the thin adapter plate.
Incidentally, these filters have integrated single-use gaskets that are destroyed when you remove the filter, which is why you should always use a fresh filter if you have to remove one for any reason (such as to inspect the adapter plate for warpage). I know it doesn't look destroyed, but its compression characteristics are irreversibly altered by the removal torque.
-mel
On Mar 12, 2011, at 6:40 AM, flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
3/4 to 1 turn is close, but the recommended torque for both Champion and Tempest has been 16-18 ft-lb for a long time.
Cliff
On 3/12/2011 3:43 AM, lehman(at)acanac.net wrote:
>
>
>
> I have compared filter torque at 3/4 to 1 additional turn (by hand) after
> gasket contact, per the manufacturer's instruction, with the 18-22 lb-ft
> Lycoming specification and consider the 18 lb-ft value to be excessive.
>
> Mike
> AA5
>
>
> Time: 09:59:19 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Holy Bat-Fuck Robin
> From: Mel Beckman<mel(at)becknet.com>
>
> Gary,
>
> It sounds like whoever installed the filter either over-torqued it or didn
> 't use DC-4 lubricant, or both. Alas, this means that you may now have a war
> ped filter adapter plate (the Lycoming engine maintenance manual talks about
> this). You should check the plate for warpage as soon as possible -- before
> the next flight. The filter may not leak for a while, but then suddenly giv
> e way, result in an engine fire or even catastrophic engine failure.
>
> I always use an automative-type filter along with a 12-point 7/8" socket on
> t
> he hex end of the filter to get a double grip on the filter, but sometimes t
> hat's not enough and you have to use the filter piercing trick. The hex end
> i
> s just sheet metal, so I would avoid any kind of crushing tool like a vise g
> rip. A great strap wrench that lets you use any 3/8" socket wrench as a hand
> le is the Plews-Edelmann 70635:
>
> http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Plews-Edelmann-70635-Oil-Filter-Wrench-62894
> 09.html
>
> Lycoming also recommends Dow Corning DC-4 compound as a filter gasket lubric
> ant rather than engine oil. This makes an astounding difference in ease of r
> emoval, and DC-4 is cheap: $15 for a lifetime supply from AC Spruce.
>
> Your idea about only tightening the filter past the gasket plus 1/2 turn isn
> 't a good one, though. Lycoming calls for a specific torque, I believe 18 to
> 22 foot lbs on the O-360, and cautions about over-torquing leading to adapt
> er plate warpage. I know you didn't cause this filter's problem, but your me
> thod could result in either under or over torque when replacing the filter.
>
> I once had massive smoke in the cockpit immediately after takeoff due to an
> o
> il filter failure after change. I landed OK, and the engine wasn't damaged,
> b
> ut I pay real close attention now to Lycoming's recommendations.
>
> -mel
>
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Gary Vogt<teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I just spent an hour REMOVING an oil filter.
>>
>> About the only thing that would have helped would have been the old style
> s
> trap type oil filter remover. I didn't have one.
>>
>> I started out using vise grips with a 7/8 inch wrench as a breaker bar ext
> ension. I got the nut on the filter pretty much rounded off. Then, I got a
> 24 inch screw driver and punched through the oil filter. With both working
> at the same time, I was able to turn the filter about 1/4 turn. Then, it s
> tuck again and all I did was end up tearing the oil filter. I then punched
> a
> ll the way through and was able to turn it about another 1/8 turn. Then I p
> unched a new hole an inch from the other but this time all the way through.
> I was able to turn the filter another 1/4 turn. So, now I used the holes o
> n the bottom and pushed the screw driver through. With the vise grip and th
> e 7/8 inch wrench, I was able to get it another 1/2 turn. =46rom there, I u
> sed the vise grip and was able to turn the filter. The filter did not come
> o
> ff the gasket for another turn. This filter was so seriously over tightened
> that there is no describing it.
>>
>> PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT NEED TO TIGHTEN THE FILTER PAST GASKET CONTACT PLUS 1/2
> TURN. IT WILL NOT LEAK. IT WILL NOT COME OFF.
>>
>> See pics.
>>
>> This isn't the first filter I've had to resort to extreme measures to remo
> ve. This is the tightest one though.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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