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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/19/11 |
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Jim,
| Quote: | ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 11:03:27 AM PST US
From: <jim(at)poogiebearranch.com>
Subject: Lithium-Ion =?UTF-8?Q?Battery=3F?
I was intrigued, because I've been following some of the "electric
flying" stuff at EAA and other sites, and there's a lot of "control
stuff" that goes along with those batteries. Got me wondering what
Concorde knew that others didn't... So I went to their website to read:
|
They are trying to say: We are a very profitable duopoly and we are not
interested in innovation as that would cut directly into our bottom line.
At the same time, we warn everybody that we do know that this technology
exists as we are happy to sell such uncertified batteries for overinflated
prices to the military industrial complex so there is no point as a little
guy to try and get your own STC as we are ready to crush you if you dare to
come to market with a product like this.
Just check out http://www.shoraipower.com for a company that sells a very
nice battery that is simply no comparison to batteries that we are forced to
fly with.
David Kessens
PS1 Speaking with fresh hole in my wallet having just bought another G25 that
is filled with nasty and dangerous acids, will fail within 2 years and
forces me to carry around 15pds of extra weight on every
flight compared to a more modern equivalent.
PS2 Our car contains 660 pds of battery of similar chemistry and
I don't feel exactly unsafe.
---
| Quote: |
<<"The lithium-ion main aircraft battery will not be a retrofit battery.
In order to assure safe operation, the lithium-ion battery must be
integrated into the control software and electronics of the aircraft
system. Redundant safety systems built into the aircraft as well as into
the battery are required to control the lithium-ion battery. With
adequate protection systems and monitoring, the battery will provide
reliable power for the aircraft of the future.>>
<<Advantages:
* High energy density potential for yet higher capacities.
* Does not need prolonged priming when new. One regular charge is all
that's needed.
* Relatively low self-discharge - self-discharge is less than half that
of nickel-based batteries.
* Low Maintenance - no periodic discharge is needed; there is no memory.
* Specialty cells can provide very high current.>>
<<Limitations:
* Requires protection circuit to maintain voltage and current within
safe limits. Protection circuitry involves both additional hardware and
software.
* On aircraft battery monitoring and alarms will be required for safe
operation.
* Subject to aging, even if not in use - storage in a cool place at 40%
charge reduces the aging effect.
* Transportation restrictions - shipment of larger batteries may be
subject to regulatory control.
* Expensive to manufacture - about 40 percent higher in cost than
nickel-cadmium.
* Not a fully mature chemistry - metals and chemicals are changing on a
continuing basis.
* Extremely flammable electrolyte. ">>
While the advantages sound great, the disadvantages are significant, and
it sounds like there's a lot of work to be done before it will be
available for "new designs" - likely a LOT longer for retrofit -
especially since they are saying "The lithium-ion main aircraft battery
will not be a retrofit battery."
Seems like we'd be safe going ahead with a Concorde for the next 2-3
years, at least... (Just my 2 cents worth.)
Jim Parker (hoping to be a "new" Cheetah owner before the end of the
year...)
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 12:02:51 PM PST US
From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Lithium-Ion Battery?
Jim
I think there is perhaps a lot of protection language on the Concorde website.
That is liability protection. The experimental world is already using the Lithium
Iron Phosphate batteries as direct replacements. These latest generation batteries,
like in the Chevy Volt and others do not have the issues of blowing
up etc and don't require the controls you are talking about
See. http://www.lithiummoto.com/
And others like for more info
Where you can replace your 29lb 12volt battery with one that weighs around 2.5lbs
as in the following picture
http://www.lithiummoto.com/gallery.html
Ned
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 19, 2011, at 1:00 PM, <jim(at)poogiebearranch.com> wrote:
>
> "923te" wrote:
> << Probably by the time you get an STC the new Lithium ion batteries
> will be available for our grummans. You might want to consider that
> before investing a lot of time into a battery that will probably fade
> away in the not to distant future. The lithuim ion battery will be half
> the weight of the current battery. Maybe even less.>>
>
> I was intrigued, because I've been following some of the "electric
> flying" stuff at EAA and other sites, and there's a lot of "control
> stuff" that goes along with those batteries. Got me wondering what
> Concorde knew that others didn't... So I went to their website to read:
>
> <<"The lithium-ion main aircraft battery will not be a retrofit battery.
> In order to assure safe operation, the lithium-ion battery must be
> integrated into the control software and electronics of the aircraft
> system. Redundant safety systems built into the aircraft as well as into
> the battery are required to control the lithium-ion battery. With
> adequate protection systems and monitoring, the battery will provide
> reliable power for the aircraft of the future.>>
>
> <<Advantages:
> * High energy density potential for yet higher capacities.
> * Does not need prolonged priming when new. One regular charge is all
> that's needed.
> * Relatively low self-discharge - self-discharge is less than half that
> of nickel-based batteries.
> * Low Maintenance - no periodic discharge is needed; there is no memory.
>
> * Specialty cells can provide very high current.>>
>
> <<Limitations:
> * Requires protection circuit to maintain voltage and current within
> safe limits. Protection circuitry involves both additional hardware and
> software.
> * On aircraft battery monitoring and alarms will be required for safe
> operation.
> * Subject to aging, even if not in use - storage in a cool place at 40%
> charge reduces the aging effect.
> * Transportation restrictions - shipment of larger batteries may be
> subject to regulatory control.
> * Expensive to manufacture - about 40 percent higher in cost than
> nickel-cadmium.
> * Not a fully mature chemistry - metals and chemicals are changing on a
> continuing basis.
> * Extremely flammable electrolyte. ">>
>
> While the advantages sound great, the disadvantages are significant, and
> it sounds like there's a lot of work to be done before it will be
> available for "new designs" - likely a LOT longer for retrofit -
> especially since they are saying "The lithium-ion main aircraft battery
> will not be a retrofit battery."
>
> Seems like we'd be safe going ahead with a Concorde for the next 2-3
> years, at least... (Just my 2 cents worth.)
>
> Jim Parker (hoping to be a "new" Cheetah owner before the end of the
> year...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 07:33:26 PM PST US
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2011 List of Contributors
Dear Listers,
The 2011 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2011 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2011.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
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David Kessens
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 12/19/11 |
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David,
That was really good
Probably much more accurate than we care to acknowledge....
ned
[quote] ---
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