Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: Landing the KIS TR-1 with VG's |
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In a message dated 11/29/2012 6:23:27 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, bakerocb(at)cox.net writes:
O.C. Good questions which gives me the opportunity to explain further. Please see my comments to each of your questions or comments. Jesse
| Quote: | 11/29/2012
Hello Jesse, You wrote:
Questions:
1) “I can control it and hold it off for the first time until it sets down very gentle.”
When you say “hold it off” are you talking about the entire plane, that is, holding the main gear off or just holding the nose wheel off after the mains touch down?
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With one notch of flaps at idle, I can now hold the complete airplane about two feet off the runway and let it settle gently - touch it down much like a Cessna. It is not nose high but is still creating lift on the wings. I am amazed! I can easly pull off the 10,000 ft. runway at Centennial, at the second turn off which is about 3000 ft.
| Quote: |
2) “I've tried slower only to plant it on and drag the tail.”
It takes a really nose high attitude while in contact with the runway to drag the bottom of the rudder.
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I have normally landed as you described. Holding it level across the fence, decrease power from about 1200 rpm with one notch of flaps. The time I tried to land slower I raised the nose only to realize I was loosing it. The nose raised toa very dangerous point while trying to save it. The tail touched the runway before the mains touched, rocked over on it's nose wheel and then back on the mains and landed. I felt I was very fortunate to walk away (I've repaired the bottom of the rudder since.) The wings had totally lose any lift.
| Quote: | A) Was this rudder contact just after a hard touchdown or while rolling out a bit?
B) What were you trying to achieve with that nose high attitude -- A slow touch down and a short roll out?
C) Where did you have the engine power set when you were trying the slower touch downs prior to installing the VG’s?
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I had pulled back to around 900 rpm.
| Quote: | D) Where do you keep the engine power now during the flare?
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I now play the rpm, bringing it back to complete idle after I get lined up and holding a constant descent. I am totally to idle in ground effect before touchdown. (I definitely know now when I'm in ground effect. Before I flew through ground effect with about 1200 rpm, planted it on. After I learned how to do this and never bounced it or let the nose get high again, but leveled it off, controlled it with power and waited for it to touch. At some point before touch down I always felt like I was a passenger.) Now, when just above the runway, if I nudge the stick back, the nose will raise but with equal amount of forward stick it will re-establish the descent as set up before and I can hold it there. Someone else has got to check me out on this and see how it reacts on their plane.
I can believe there is lift created where there was little or none before. As I said in my earlier blurb that there is now much larger amount of resistance to pull in flaps, where as not before and the nose wants to pitch down as it did not do before. That indicates to me there is lift that was not present before. It's like putting a different wing on this thing.
I've got to do some more maneuver at altitude but I don't think I would be afraid to dead stick this thing with an engine out anywhere near as I would have been before. I've got to full stall straight ahead and see what happens. Before It was a "heart in throat" maneuver. Mine dropped like a rock. I never did that but once. I'm afraid of a secondary stall pulling out, it is so clean. All flying to this point has been by myself. I am now in the process of getting some weight in the right seat and see if that changes any thing.
Go on line and read what the suppliers of these things say and comments by others. This could be a real safety factor for our community. Jesse
| Quote: | My Comments:
I have come to the conclusion that the KIS TR-1 as originally configured, is just not a short field, slow touch down airplane. The technique that I have found that works the best is:
a) Keep some engine power on (1200 – 1300 rpm) until in ground effect just inches from the main gear touching down.
b) Keep the airspeed over the end of the runway at between 75 and 80 knots indicated.
c) Don’t raise the nose above the far end of the runway or the horizon or you will lose track of where you are both laterally and above the runway – this can lead to a harsh touchdown. The airplane must be flown visually all the way to touch down of the main gear – “wings level and hope” will not work.
d) Forget about holding the nose gear off after touch down of the mains. It can be done, but not consistently and trying to achieve that will usually lose track of where you are in relation to the runway (see c above).
e) I think a single vortex generator on each side of the fuselage nose can be of help (see the present versions on the Cirrus airplanes), but my experimentation is ongoing.
OC
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Time: 09:24:18 PM PST US
From: Flyinisfun(at)aol.com (Flyinisfun(at)aol.com)
Subject: Vortex Generators
Hi Kis Gang,
I have had trouble as many of you have at landing the two place Kis. I
have had to cross the fence at about 80 mph indicated with a touch down
around 75.
I've tried slower only to plant it on and drag the tail. I touched
the rudder and sanded about 1/2" off the bottom of it and am lucky that was
all.
Anyway, I put VG's on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizer,
which did wonders and now on the wing. For the first time, when I put the
flaps down the nose pitches down. I am crossing the fence at about 75 mph
with a true touch down at 65.
I can control it and hold it off for the first time until it sets down very gentle. I know these things have been
cursed but I will not fly again without them. It has changed the whole
complexion of this machine. I feel that at last I have a flying machine.
Any comments from you?
Jesse Wright
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