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alderman.kevin0610(at)gma
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 Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:05 am Post subject: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 |
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Tracy Crook flies his 3 rotor RV6 behind a 3 blade Catto prop and recommended it to me for mine.
Kevin Alderman
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2013-05-01&Archive=KIS
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2013-05-01&Archive=KIS
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
KIS-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 05/01/13: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (Kevin Alderman)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (Scott Stearns)
3. 11:01 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
4. 11:06 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 03:32:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13
From: Kevin Alderman <alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com (alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com)>
The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of
these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have
personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with
over 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda
that raced last year at Reno etc.
The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle
turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you count
the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the
turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548  .
The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valves
and high power
The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has
done it.
My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new
rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I
did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30
lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the
value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520.
This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the light
crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me
that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non
VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had
to go.
So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new
cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down)
if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it
and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil removed
from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who
knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open it
up and even check the bearings.
Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credit
toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable.
There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs
are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats,
equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a
spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend
$2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and
fly with a brand new one.
I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B
rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup.
The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your
car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- ground
idle.
For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control
boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to
flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in
a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the
RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for
waiting to go.
There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundant
EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup.
I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in my
head by now.
Kevin Alderman
Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name!
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <
kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS
>
>
> ======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> KIS-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderman)
> 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
> 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham
> Brighton)
> 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz)
> 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13
> From: Kevin Alderman <alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com (alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com)>
>
> A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest factor
> is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine
> for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on the
> ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great for
> high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime it
> will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher.
>
> Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM,
> and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The
> Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere.
>
> Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is
> varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS prop
> and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a
> controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a
> method of controlling the prop pitch.
>
> In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started at
> ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e.
> 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight cruise
> power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston
> recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full
> forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to
> flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go.
>
> Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speeds.
> Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet all
> the time they couldn't afford the fuel.
>
> Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compressed
> high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the
> cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you
> aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power.
>
> I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the
> Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP
> turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180
> kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000
> mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight even
> at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed.
>
> Kevin Alderman
> Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration
> Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 moving
> parts.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <
> kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
>
> > *
> >
> > =======================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =======================
> >
> > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > =====================
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > KIS-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA)
> > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez)
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US
> > Subject: Re: Turbine
> > From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>
> >
> > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine?
> > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one in
> my
> > garage.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie <
> jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the
> > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser
> > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me
> in
> > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all
> > ears.
> > > Thanks a mil.
> > >
> > > John Petrie
> > > Sonic Factory
> > > 082 574 6190
> > > Sent from my mobile
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US
> > From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
> > Subject: Re: Turbine
> >
> > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go
> away
> > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like fun
> to
> > do.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie <
> jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the
> > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser
> > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me
> in
> > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all
> > ears.
> > > Thanks a mil.
> > >
> > > John Petrie
> > > Sonic Factory
> > > 082 574 6190
> > > Sent from my mobile
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US
> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
> Subject: Catto Propeller
>
> Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is not
> flying yet.
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US
> From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)>
> Subject: Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13
>
> Great Reply Kevin ,
> But few more moving parts than 3 hey
> ..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u
> intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or
> tested TV analysis ..!!??
> Graham
>
> ..
>
>
> From: Kevin Alderman
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13
>
>
> A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest
> factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS
> turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at
> idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH.
> Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in
> our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes
> higher.
>
>
> Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000
> RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop
> speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find
> one somewhere.
>
>
> Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power
> is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a
> CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have
> a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a
> method of controlling the prop pitch.
>
>
> In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started
> at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed,
> i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight
> cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with
> a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the
> prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is
> pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go.
>
>
> Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high
> speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below
> 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel.
>
>
> Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take
> compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send
> it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin
> heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another
> waste of power.
>
>
> I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the
> Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a
> 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph
> at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than
> a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in
> flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts
> in speed.
>
>
> Kevin Alderman
> Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration
> Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3
> moving parts.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server
> <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
>
> *
>
>
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
> Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
> hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
>
>
> =====================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>
> =====================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> KIS-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA)
> 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Turbine
> From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a
> turbine?
> Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one
> in my
> garage.
>
> Al
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie
> <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)>wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to
> the
> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my
> Cruiser
> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point
> me in
> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm
> all ears.
> > Thanks a mil.
> >
> > John Petrie
> > Sonic Factory
> > 082 574 6190
> > Sent from my mobile
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US
> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
> Subject: Re: Turbine
>
> Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go
> away
> and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like
> fun to
> do.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie
> <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)>wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to
> the
> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my
> Cruiser
> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point
> me in
> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm
> all ears.
> > Thanks a mil.
> >
> > John Petrie
> > Sonic Factory
> > 082 574 6190
> > Sent from my mobile
> >
> >
>
>
> =========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> =========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> =========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:46:24 AM PST US
> From: "William Schertz" <wschertz(at)comcast.net (wschertz(at)comcast.net)>
> Subject: Re: Catto Propeller
>
> I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS
>
> Bill Schertz
>
>
> From: Galin Hernandez
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM
> Subject: Catto Propeller
>
> Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is
> not flying yet.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:11:36 PM PST US
> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
> Subject: Re: Catto Propeller
>
> Bill, How do you like the propeller?
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net (wschertz(at)comcast.net)
> >wrote:
>
> > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS
> >
> > Bill Schertz
> >
> >
> > *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM
> > *To:* kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
> > *Subject:* Catto Propeller
> >
> > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is
> > not flying yet.
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">[url=http://www.matronics.com/c*]http://www.matronics.com/c*[/url]
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:11:00 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Catto Propeller
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>
I have a 68x80 prince that I might be selling soon. I think I am going to g
et a whirlwind ground adjustable prop.
Scott
On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
> Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is no
t flying yet.
>
>
=
=========
=
=========
=
=========
=
=========
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 11:01:23 PM PST US
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete KIS-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm
************************************************************
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
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http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
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*** List Digest Browser ***
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An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
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*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
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At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
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Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
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The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
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*** List Member Information ***
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If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
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Please forward this information to the following email address:
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I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
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The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
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*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
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The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
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*** List Archives ***
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A file containing of all of the previous postings to the KIS-List is
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- Latest version of the KIS-List Frequently Asked Question
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* KIS-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
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* KIS-Archive.digest.vol-??
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* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.zip
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in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.Z
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UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the KIS-List are also available using the
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http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?KIS
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**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
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http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
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pictures(at)matronics.com (pictures(at)matronics.com)
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
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Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
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******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
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KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
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are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
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that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
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about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
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easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
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easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
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response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 11:06:03 PM PST US
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
KIS-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
===========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:49 pm Post subject: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 |
|
|
Check out the whirlwind ground adjustable before you buy. I am not sure how much the catto is but the whirlwind is about the same price as a prince carbon.
Scott
On May 2, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Kevin Alderman <alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] Tracy Crook flies his 3 rotor RV6 behind a 3 blade Catto prop and recommended it to me for mine.
Kevin Alderman
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2013-05-01&Archive=KIS
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2013-05-01&Archive=KIS
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
KIS-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 05/01/13: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (Kevin Alderman)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (Scott Stearns)
3. 11:01 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
4. 11:06 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 03:32:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13
From: Kevin Alderman <alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com>
The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of
these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have
personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with
over 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda
that raced last year at Reno etc.
The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle
turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you count
the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the
turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548 .
The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valves
and high power
The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has
done it.
My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new
rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I
did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30
lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the
value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520.
This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the light
crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me
that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non
VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had
to go.
So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new
cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down)
if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it
and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil removed
from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who
knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open it
up and even check the bearings.
Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credit
toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable.
There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs
are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats,
equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a
spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend
$2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and
fly with a brand new one.
I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B
rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup.
The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your
car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- ground
idle.
For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control
boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to
flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in
a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the
RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for
waiting to go.
There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundant
EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup.
I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in my
head by now.
Kevin Alderman
Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name!
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <
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> Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5
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> 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderman)
> 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
> 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham
> Brighton)
> 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz)
> 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
>
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> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
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> Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13
> From: Kevin Alderman <alderman.kevin0610(at)gmail.com>
>
> A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest factor
> is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine
> for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on the
> ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great for
> high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime it
> will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher.
>
> Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM,
> and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The
> Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere.
>
> Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is
> varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS prop
> and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a
> controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a
> method of controlling the prop pitch.
>
> In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started at
> ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e
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