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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:21 am Post subject: Aircraft lien |
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I thought I'd start here first, since many of you out there have more experience than I do with these things.
A couple of years ago I loaned a customer a '78 Tiger airbox so he could take his plane. His '76 airbox was pretty badly cracked. I never gave it much thought because he'd been a regular customer for many years. This last year, he didn't bring his plane back for an annual. Not a big deal at the time. I called, he called, we exchanged emails, and I told him I wanted to get his repaired airbox back on his plane because I wanted mine back. I haven't heard from him since.
I want that airbox back. But, I need a little leverage. I thought putting a lien on his plane for the airbox and cost to install might get the ball rolling. Hate to do it. But, . . .
Any idea where to start this process?
Gary
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mel(at)becknet.com
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:54 am Post subject: Aircraft lien |
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In my real job as a network engineer, I run into this problem fairly often. We loan gear to customers and then somehow they forget it was a loaner. A critical requirement to get paid is paperwork showing that the part was in fact only a loaner and not given for free. I have followed the practice of giving the client an invoice for the equipment, with a note on the invoice that it will be canceled if the part is returned by date X.
Getting a lien is pretty difficult if you don't have an invoice or other paperwork clearly setting forth your understanding with the customer at the time of the loan. The particular kind of lien you're seeking is called a "mechanic's" lean.
A mechanic's lien is a "hold" against the customer's property, filed by you as an unpaid contractor, subcontractor, laborer, or material supplier, and is recorded with the county recorder's office. If the customer doesn't pay you to satisfy the lien, they can't sell the property and risk a foreclosure action to force the sale of the property in lieu of compensation.
A lien can result when the prime contractor (referred to as a "direct contractor" in mechanics lien revision statutes, effective July 1, 2012) has not paid subcontractors, laborers, or suppliers. Legally, the homeowner is ultimately responsible for payment — even if they already have paid the direct contractor.
To get a lien in most states, all you have to do is file a written notice to the county where you made the repairs within 90 days of the work's completion. That may be a problem in your case, since it sounds like you have mssed the 90 day window. More importantly, when you file this notice you have to include a description of the work you performed, parts you supplied, and agreed price. You also supply a description of the property, such as its expected location and the A/C SN or registration number. The county recorder notes the facts and notifies the owner of the property of the lien's filing.
I can tell you that this kind of lien works very well with "leach" customers. You're basically encumbering property worth possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars for a debt that is a small fraction of that amount. Customers tend to pay off these liens very quickly. The lien also becomes part of the public record, which motivates people. But you have to be absolutely solid on your facts to avoid potential libel claims.
So if you have something in writing with the customer, you could file a mechanic's lean for just a few bucks filing fee. Note that in California, last year the state added a requirement for a 20-day "preliminary notice" from the date of completion, mostly to try and eliminate some of the lien backlog.
Absent a mechanics lien, you can use Small Claims court. This is a lot more work, requires a court appearance by you, and still leaves you left to collect the judgement if you get one.
-mel
On May 16, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
[quote]I thought I'd start here first, since many of you out there have more experience than I do with these things.
A couple of years ago I loaned a customer a '78 Tiger airbox so he could take his plane. His '76 airbox was pretty badly cracked. I never gave it much thought because he'd been a regular customer for many years. This last year, he didn't bring his plane back for an annual. Not a big deal at the time. I called, he called, we exchanged emails, and I told him I wanted to get his repaired airbox back on his plane because I wanted mine back. I haven't heard from him since.
I want that airbox back. But, I need a little leverage. I thought putting a lien on his plane for the airbox and cost to install might get the ball rolling. Hate to do it. But, . . .
Any idea where to start this process?
Gary
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:37 am Post subject: Aircraft lien |
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Very good point. I'll make out an invoice and mail it today.
From: Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Aircraft lien
In my real job as a network engineer, I run into this problem fairly often. We loan gear to customers and then somehow they forget it was a loaner. A critical requirement to get paid is paperwork showing that the part was in fact only a loaner and not given for free. I have followed the practice of giving the client an invoice for the equipment, with a note on the invoice that it will be canceled if the part is returned by date X.
Getting a lien is pretty difficult if you don't have an invoice or other paperwork clearly setting forth your understanding with the customer at the time of the loan. The particular kind of lien you're seeking is called a "mechanic's" lean.
A mechanic's lien is a "hold" against the customer's property, filed by you as an unpaid contractor, subcontractor, laborer, or material supplier, and is recorded with the county recorder's office. If the customer doesn't pay you to satisfy the lien, they can't sell the property and risk a foreclosure action to force the sale of the property in lieu of compensation.
A lien can result when the prime contractor (referred to as a "direct contractor" in mechanics lien revision statutes, effective July 1, 2012) has not paid subcontractors, laborers, or suppliers. Legally, the homeowner is ultimately responsible for payment — even if they already have paid the direct contractor.
To get a lien in most states, all you have to do is file a written notice to the county where you made the repairs within 90 days of the work's completion. That may be a problem in your case, since it sounds like you have mssed the 90 day window. More importantly, when you file this notice you have to include a description of the work you performed, parts you supplied, and agreed price. You also supply a description of the property, such as its expected location and the A/C SN or registration number. The county recorder notes the facts and notifies the owner of the property of the lien's filing.
I can tell you that this kind of lien works very well with "leach" customers. You're basically encumbering property worth possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars for a debt that is a small fraction of that amount. Customers tend to pay off these liens very quickly. The lien also becomes part of the public record, which motivates people. But you have to be absolutely solid on your facts to avoid potential libel claims.
So if you have something in writing with the customer, you could file a mechanic's lean for just a few bucks filing fee. Note that in California, last year the state added a requirement for a 20-day "preliminary notice" from the date of completion, mostly to try and eliminate some of the lien backlog.
Absent a mechanics lien, you can use Small Claims court. This is a lot more work, requires a court appearance by you, and still leaves you left to collect the judgement if you get one.
-mel
On May 16, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
[quote]I thought I'd start here first, since many of you out there have more experience than I do with these things.
A couple of years ago I loaned a customer a '78 Tiger airbox so he could take his plane. His '76 airbox was pretty badly cracked. I never gave it much thought because he'd been a regular customer for many years. This last year, he didn't bring his plane back for an annual. Not a big deal at the time. I called, he called, we exchanged emails, and I told him I wanted to get his repaired airbox back on his plane because I wanted mine back. I haven't heard from him since.
I want that airbox back. But, I need a little leverage. I thought putting a lien on his plane for the airbox and cost to install might get the ball rolling. Hate to do it. But, . . .
Any idea where to start this process?
Gary
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://forums.matronics.com[/url]
_="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi==
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: Aircraft lien |
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Be sure to send it Registered Mail with a Return Receipt.
Dennis
On 5/16/2013 2:37 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
[quote] Very good point. I'll make out an invoice and mail it today.
From: Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com> (mel(at)becknet.com)
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com) <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com> (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Aircraft lien
In my real job as a network engineer, I run into this problem fairly often. We loan gear to customers and then somehow they forget it was a loaner. A critical requirement to get paid is paperwork showing that the part was in fact only a loaner and not given for free. I have followed the practice of giving the client an invoice for the equipment, with a note on the invoice that it will be canceled if the part is returned by date X.
Getting a lien is pretty difficult if you don't have an invoice or other paperwork clearly setting forth your understanding with the customer at the time of the loan. The particular kind of lien you're seeking is called a "mechanic's" lean.
A mechanic's lien is a "hold" against the customer's property, filed by you as an unpaid contractor, subcontractor, laborer, or material supplier, and is recorded with the county recorder's office. If the customer doesn't pay you to satisfy the lien, they can't sell the property and risk a foreclosure action to force the sale of the property in lieu of compensation.
A lien can result when the prime contractor (referred to as a "direct contractor" in mechanics lien revision statutes, effective July 1, 2012) has not paid subcontractors, laborers, or suppliers. Legally, the homeowner is ultimately responsible for payment — even if they already have paid the direct contractor.
To get a lien in most states, all you have to do is file a written notice to the county where you made the repairs within 90 days of the work's completion. That may be a problem in your case, since it sounds like you have mssed the 90 day window. More importantly, when you file this notice you have to include a description of the work you performed, parts you supplied, and agreed price. You also supply a description of the property, such as its expected location and the A/C SN or registration number. The county recorder notes the facts and notifies the owner of the property of the lien's filing.
I can tell you that this kind of lien works very well with "leach" customers. You're basically encumbering property worth possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars for a debt that is a small fraction of that amount. Customers tend to pay off these liens very quickly. The lien also becomes part of the public record, which motivates people. But you have to be absolutely solid on your facts to avoid potential libel claims.
So if you have something in writing with the customer, you could file a mechanic's lean for just a few bucks filing fee. Note that in California, last year the state added a requirement for a 20-day "preliminary notice" from the date of completion, mostly to try and eliminate some of the lien backlog.
Absent a mechanics lien, you can use Small Claims court. This is a lot more work, requires a court appearance by you, and still leaves you left to collect the judgement if you get one.
-mel
On May 16, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
| Quote: | I thought I'd start here first, since many of you out there have more experience than I do with these things.
A couple of years ago I loaned a customer a '78 Tiger airbox so he could take his plane. His '76 airbox was pretty badly cracked. I never gave it much thought because he'd been a regular customer for many years. This last year, he didn't bring his plane back for an annual. Not a big deal at the time. I called, he called, we exchanged emails, and I told him I wanted to get his repaired airbox back on his plane because I wanted mine back. I haven't heard from him since.
I want that airbox back. But, I need a little leverage. I thought putting a lien on his plane for the airbox and cost to install might get the ball rolling. Hate to do it. But, . . .
Any idea where to start this process?
Gary
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumma" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
_="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi==
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dsleepy47
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: Aircraft lien |
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Thanks for all your help. I got the airbox back.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On May 16, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Deems Herring <dsleepy47(at)hotmail.com (dsleepy47(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Here:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/record_aircraft_lien/
is what the FAA has to say about it. I am not in California so I don't know what their requirements are.
Deems
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 12:37:21 -0700
From: teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Aircraft lien
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Very good point. I'll make out an invoice and mail it today.
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