FWIW, a forward CG is safer than an AFT CG.....
Grumpy
N184JM
On Nov 6, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Kinda helps blow away that myth that the CG in the -10 is too far
> forward and it's "nose heavy", doesn't it. :)
>
> My opinion personally is that the RV-10's nose-heavyness should
> not be something people should intentionally try to change,
> because in the end they're likely going to find that they
> WISHED they had the CG more forward. It used to be that
> some people thought they wanted everything up front to be
> lighter (i.e. props, and all the accessories) to help "fix"
> the nose-heaviness. I think that in reality, the more you
> take off the nose, the more CG worry you're going to
> end up with, so best to just build the plane not considering
> the plane to have any "nose heaviness" to "fix".
> If you build it in a normal way, you will naturally be less
> nose heavy than the Van's prototypes...because you'll already
> have more interior features.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Rene Felker wrote:
>> Sorry guys, I did not weight the belts. Butmy CG is pretty far
>> aft and if I was building another RV-10 I would reconsider a couple
>> of things in order to move the CG forward. But I WOULD NOT give up
>> the belts. Examples:
>> ELT
>> O2 System (Currently behind the bulkhead)
>> Battery(1 925 in tray)
>> Rene' Felker
>> RV-10 N423CF Flying
>> 801-721-6080
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *David McNeill
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: AMSAFE seat belts
>> Below is my reply to Jeff. I do believe that if you use the
>> standard hardpoints and regular belts that you should at least use
>> a CS stainless washer under the screw. This will spread the load on
>> the glass and make a pull though more difficult.
>> don't know for sure but the total weight of four AMSAFE belts
>> IIRC is less than 10 pounds. Incrementally I would say an
>> additional 2-4 pounds over the standard belts. You add 4
>> 3'x3'x1/2'' aluminum blocks and four rollers Check with Rene as he
>> probably weighed the alternatives.
>> The existing hardpoints were deemed inadequate (for the AMSAFE
>> application) by both AMSAFE and consultant (PhD, ME Caltech) who
>> lives nearby. The vans hardpoints are setup for a single #5 counter
>> sunk screw. This is installed without CS washer that would be
>> required to spread the load. My ME consultant friend tells me that
>> the normal use of the regular belts will cause micro fractures and
>> may fail (pull through) if and when a crash occurs. AMSAFE
>> commented that they would sell me the belts if I "beefed up" the
>> existing hardpoints. Since the roller have screws for attaching the
>> brackets I needed a means to attach the bracket Since I did not
>> want 16 protruding though the lid I used the aluminum blocks
>> (2024T3 or 7075) . These were tapped for 4 external screws to hold
>> the pad that holds the roller. Each external screw has a .75" CS
>> stainless washer and thereby spreading the load on the lid. In
>> addition since the shoulder straps are on inertial reels there is
>> no constant shear load on the single screw in the lid. The
>> hardpoints areas were strengthened by additional E-glass and S-
>> glass tapes. The calculations of the ME ,while informal, indicated
>> that relative strengths could compared by comparing the surface
>> areas of the fasteners. Hope this helps. I've got a couple of
>> questions David:
>> How much weight are we adding with the inertia reel belts as
>> opposed to the standard?
>> The hard points you show in you installation pictures are much more
>> elaborate than what Vans provides for the stock belts. Is there a
>> reason the inertia belts require more support, or do you feel the
>> Vans hard points aren't enough for either approach
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:01 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: AMSAFE seat belts
>> I think the overall concern is that the factory hardpoints are
>> just not enough. I believe, as David said, AMSafe was concerned
>> that additional reinforcement would up the safety margin. I know I
>> feel a lot better after putting a couple of intersecting layers of
>> S glass over the hardpoints.
>> Michael
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Carpenter
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:20 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: AMSAFE seat belts
>> I've got a couple of questions David:
>> How much weight are we adding with the inertia reel belts as
>> opposed to the standard?
>> The hard points you show in you installation pictures are much more
>> elaborate than what Vans provides for the stock belts. Is there a
>> reason the inertia belts require more support, or do you feel the
>> Vans hard points aren't enough for either approach?
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> Finishing the inside of the cabin top... and making provisions for
>> the belts
>> On Nov 3, 2009, at 9:46 AM, David McNeill wrote:
>> www.inertialbelts.com <http://www.inertialbelts.com> is on line
>> again. The belts are shown in my Glastar as the belts were not
>> installed in my 10 at that time. Rene has good pictures of the
>> final finish. I will enclose one of his here.
>> <P0002841.gif>
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