Agreed, if you are going to nudge the edges of the envelope. Heavier on
the controls versus lighter, less efficient versus more efficient, etc.
I like to think, "in the envelope is good, out of the envelope grounds
the aircraft". Understanding where you are in the acceptable range
allow you to adjust your technique, e.g. carrying trim or power in the
flare.
Bill "who knows nothing about the '10..... yet" Watson
Miller John wrote:
>
> FWIW, a forward CG is safer than an AFT CG.....
>
> Grumpy
> N184JM
>
> On Nov 6, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Kinda helps blow away that myth that the CG in the -10 is too far
>> forward and it's "nose heavy", doesn't it. :)
>>
>> My opinion personally is that the RV-10's nose-heavyness should
>> not be something people should intentionally try to change,
>> because in the end they're likely going to find that they
>> WISHED they had the CG more forward. It used to be that
>> some people thought they wanted everything up front to be
>> lighter (i.e. props, and all the accessories) to help "fix"
>> the nose-heaviness. I think that in reality, the more you
>> take off the nose, the more CG worry you're going to
>> end up with, so best to just build the plane not considering
>> the plane to have any "nose heaviness" to "fix".
>> If you build it in a normal way, you will naturally be less
>> nose heavy than the Van's prototypes...because you'll already
>> have more interior features.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>
>>
>>
>> Rene Felker wrote:
>>> Sorry guys, I did not weight the belts. Butmy CG is pretty far
>>> aft and if I was building another RV-10 I would reconsider a couple
>>> of things in order to move the CG forward. But I WOULD NOT give up
>>> the belts. Examples:
>>> ELT
>>> O2 System (Currently behind the bulkhead)
>>> Battery(1 925 in tray)
>>> Rene' Felker
>>> RV-10 N423CF Flying
>>> 801-721-6080
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David
>>> McNeill
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:30 PM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: AMSAFE seat belts
>>> Below is my reply to Jeff. I do believe that if you use the standard
>>> hardpoints and regular belts that you should at least use a CS
>>> stainless washer under the screw. This will spread the load on the
>>> glass and make a pull though more difficult.
>>> don't know for sure but the total weight of four AMSAFE belts
>>> IIRC is less than 10 pounds. Incrementally I would say an additional
>>> 2-4 pounds over the standard belts. You add 4 3'x3'x1/2'' aluminum
>>> blocks and four rollers Check with Rene as he probably weighed the
>>> alternatives.
>>> The existing hardpoints were deemed inadequate (for the AMSAFE
>>> application) by both AMSAFE and consultant (PhD, ME Caltech) who
>>> lives nearby. The vans hardpoints are setup for a single #5 counter
>>> sunk screw. This is installed without CS washer that would be
>>> required to spread the load. My ME consultant friend tells me that
>>> the normal use of the regular belts will cause micro fractures and
>>> may fail (pull through) if and when a crash occurs. AMSAFE commented
>>> that they would sell me the belts if I "beefed up" the existing
>>> hardpoints. Since the roller have screws for attaching the brackets
>>> I needed a means to attach the bracket Since I did not want 16
>>> protruding though the lid I used the aluminum blocks (2024T3 or
>>> 7075) . These were tapped for 4 external screws to hold the pad that
>>> holds the roller. Each external screw has a .75" CS stainless washer
>>> and thereby spreading the load on the lid. In addition since the
>>> shoulder straps are on inertial reels there is no constant shear
>>> load on the single screw in the lid. The hardpoints areas were
>>> strengthened by additional E-glass and S-glass tapes. The
>>> calculations of the ME ,while informal, indicated that relative
>>> strengths could compared by comparing the surface areas of the
>>> fasteners. Hope this helps. I've got a couple of questions David:
>>> How much weight are we adding with the inertia reel belts as opposed
>>> to the standard?
>>> The hard points you show in you installation pictures are much more
>>> elaborate than what Vans provides for the stock belts. Is there a
>>> reason the inertia belts require more support, or do you feel the
>>> Vans hard points aren't enough for either approach
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV
>>> Builder (Michael Sausen)
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:01 PM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: AMSAFE seat belts
>>> I think the overall concern is that the factory hardpoints are just
>>> not enough. I believe, as David said, AMSafe was concerned that
>>> additional reinforcement would up the safety margin. I know I feel
>>> a lot better after putting a couple of intersecting layers of S
>>> glass over the hardpoints.
>>> Michael
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
>>> Carpenter
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:20 PM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: AMSAFE seat belts
>>> I've got a couple of questions David:
>>> How much weight are we adding with the inertia reel belts as opposed
>>> to the standard?
>>> The hard points you show in you installation pictures are much more
>>> elaborate than what Vans provides for the stock belts. Is there a
>>> reason the inertia belts require more support, or do you feel the
>>> Vans hard points aren't enough for either approach?
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>> Finishing the inside of the cabin top... and making provisions for
>>> the belts
>>> On Nov 3, 2009, at 9:46 AM, David McNeill wrote:
>>> www.inertialbelts.com <http://www.inertialbelts.com> is on line
>>> again. The belts are shown in my Glastar as the belts were not
>>> installed in my 10 at that time. Rene has good pictures of the final
>>> finish. I will enclose one of his here.
>>> <P0002841.gif>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>>> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com*
>>> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com*
>>> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>>
>>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>>> **
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> **
>>> **
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>>> **
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>>> **
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
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>>> * *
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
