With regards to Peter's statement "The knob feels about the same,", he
is of course 100% correct. One of the things that I did was remove the
flap handle ball and grind flats on 4 sides of the ball to give it a
somewhat different feel.
Then I created a gear/flap warning "system" using a simple piezoelectric
alarm device which operates on 28 volts and puts out a high frequency
shrill at about 90 DB
(http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62399&cp 3
2058.2032230.2032266&parentPage=family) and some 1N4001 diodes. I
interfaced the alarm circuit to the flap down microswitch and the nose
gear microswitch and of course, ground and 28 volts. If the flaps go
down before the gear is down, the alarm sounds off. And it is loud!
It's not 100% fool proof, but it's certainly better than forgetting the
gear altogether. Although I haven't added it yet, a red or yellow lamp
could easily be added to the instrument panel next to the airspeed
indicator. It would also come on with the alarm. Once the gear goes
down, the alarm turns off.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter K. Van Staagen
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
<petervs@knology.net>
About gear up landings... I've almost done this twice when another
plane
entered the pattern without saying a word. Fortunately my instructor
drilled
in multiple gear checks and I caught it on final. What I had done both
times
was put the flaps down instead of the gear. The knob feels about the
same,
the plane decelerates, the air systems makes that familiar noise. Then
when
I got slowed down I put the flaps up, thinking I was putting them
down.
Again, the knob feels the same and there is that familiar sound. But
the
plane did not fly right. It was hard to slow down. I fly a close
pattern and
steep decent and so the throttle was at the idle stop and I was still
fast.
I was looking around for clues and saw the three red lights. I looked
at
them and thought ok the gear lights are red, wait... red is bad, red
is bad,
holy crap the handle is in the up position. I could not understand why
until
much later. I knew I had put it down. I got the gear down, checked the
poles
and lights and handle three more times. Then on short final realized
my
flaps were up. I landed with the flaps up I wasn't about to touch
anything
until I understood what had happened.
About warning horns. They don't always work. Ask my friend who landed
his
twin commanche gear up. He was task saturated and annoyed by the
"stall
warning" going off all the way from short final to touchdown. He never
realized the tone was not the stall warning but actually the gear
warning.
Avoiding a gear up landing is all about discipline. Here are my rules.
1) If I have a GIB I brief them that the only thing they have to do on
the
flight is to make sure I put the gear down. I tell them to make sure
the
three lights are green and the two poles are up. I tell them to tell
me that
over the intercom. No one rides without duties.
2) I make three gear checks, one before I roll off the perch, one on
base
and the other on short final.
3) I make two announcements. One on base over the radio that gear is
down
and pressure is up. One to the GIB, "Three Green, Three Poles." I
expect the
reply "Three Green, two poles." I even make the radio call at
controlled
fields after being cleared to land. I want that gear check on the
towers
tape recording, and I don=92t want to change my discipline just
because I am
landing somewhere different.
4) On short final I remember the saying "Three Green over the Green."
5) In formation flight I check everyone's gear. I make sure everyone
makes a
gear check radio call. If my wingman let's me land gear up, he is
paying for
it!
6) If anything unusual happens in the pattern, get out the check list
and
start over.
7) If you cannot remember checking the gear all three times the next
day,
you have to severely reprimand yourself.
For fun, let=92s everyone list the tools they use to for gear checks.
Squatch out.
__|__
__|__ ----=(*)=----
__|__ ----=(*)=----
__|__ ----=(*)=----
----=(*)=----
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:58 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
Doc. Let me know how you make out. I agree that over a grand is a
lot of
money. Too freaking much money to be honest. You can build some
fancy
stuff for a grand. I need to rethink this. Possibly ultrasonic or
laser
might be more effective and cheaper. And here I was all gung-ho for a
little while.
Don't talk to me about the market.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Kemp MD
Sent: Thu 10/9/2008 3:32 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
No, not missing anything and I see your logic as hopefully you see
mine. The
squat switch does not have to be on the sleeve of the strut but could
be on
the scissor although the best place for it is on the barrel of the
strut. At
the tech order strut operating pressure (I forget the numbers), my
struts
collapse about 1/4-1/2 in with wt. on them. That may not be enough to
be
practical for a WOW switch.
The ground proximity warning sonar is practical and $1295 is
reasonable I
guess. Just means I have to leave off another accessory planned for
the
winter if I chose to install this. For now the check list still works
and my
insurance rates remain the same. Amaratizing the $1300 over the $50 to
$100
extra I would get off my $1800 annual premiums means at best it would
be 13
years before I could re-coupe the investment in the GPWS. I could bend
the
plane doing something else over that time too.
Self insuring, investing the premiums in this Bear market, and simply
waiting out the recovery also means that I could make enough over the
next
10 years to replace a couple of aircraft too. The new housing sales
pending
starts are already up 30% in this "bad economy". Did not see that on
the big
"three" either did you.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:20 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
Doc, in order to have a WOW switch work, something has to MOVE. The
distance it MOVES has to enough to make a SWITCH activate or
deactivate.
Think about the 50 .... what moves? The struts when inflated
correctly can
be so stiff as to not move at all on landing. Yes, the slide lock
can be
replaced with an electronic version (solenoid). Headset noises are no
problem either. A Rad/Alt could also be used instead of GPWS, but at
more
expense.
The simple fact though is that if you have a GPWS, you really do not
need a
weight on wheels switch. Just some control logic. When the gear is
down
and you are below min altititude, the solenoid locks the pin so the
gear can
not be raised and audio alerts are disabled. When the aircraft takes
off,
and gets above minimum alt. then the gear lock pin UNLOCKS, the gear
can
then be raised, and audio alerts are re-activated.
Am I missing something?
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Kemp MD
Sent: Thu 10/9/2008 1:55 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
Someone yesterday said a WOW switch would not work on the YAK? Why? We
are
talking about a weight on wheels switch. I disables the up circuit on
the
gear handle. Since we have a manual slide lock a simple micro circuit
could
be added to the slide lock that when there is weight on the wheels and
the
slide lock is open there is gear warning horn or beep beep in the head
set.
With enough bucks you could even have a synthetic "Bitching Betty"
saying
"check gear, check gear". (or whatever you want to say, like" take
your
&*^%$#@ hands of the gear handle!") Yes, when you slide the slide lock
open
for TO you would get that warning also. For a few folks I have seen
TO, that
may not be such a bad idea either. The radar altimeter could also be
incorporated for a ground proximity warning also on landing warning of
gear
up landing when there is no weight on the wheels.
Just a thought.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:12 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: RED ALERT - Safety Review
Guys,
As Elmar and Mark pointed out, it's already been built, it has been
available for years. The sticking point is the $1250.00 uninstalled
cost
and to a somewhat lesser degree the mentality that "it won't happen to
me".
TJ and I have talked about all this before. But if we are going to to
drag
this horse out and beat it some more I would like to restate my
opinion,
knowing full well that with it and $1.50 you can get a cup of coffee.
At the risk of being drug out of my office and summarily tarred and
feathered I would (somewhat cautiously suggest) that if we REALLY want
to be
proactive on this gear warn issue IMHO the only way to enact it across
the
board is a UP charge on our insurance premiums. This upcharge would
be
refunded upon the installation of a acceptable gear warn system.
Reading
TJ's curent email I also assume that once it was installed we could
enjoy a
reduction of our annual premiums also. As unpopular as it may be to
suggest
yet another increase in our flying expenses, I honestly think this may
be
the only way to get everyone's attention and have a real impact on the
problem of gear up landings.
Retracting the gear on the ramp is yet another issue and must be delt
with
in another manner.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
wrote:
tjyak50 wrote:
> We've gone around and around on this subject for years.
> There is always a way to find a reason why each system isn't
perfect.
>
> So nobody does anything.
Build it and they will come.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7999#207999
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
