Mike,
You are absolutely correct. What I wrote was poorly worded for brevity. No
excuse.
I'm AF (ANG).
During the brief, Motherhood will have covered when and if the element will
abort together. Generally that is if the element is mission critical for
training and the abort occurs leaving the chocks, in EOR, or as the flight
starts TO roll. Everything is talked about on the radio if possible, but
maybe not. If lead breaks one third, halfway down the runway, at rotation or
at some point past loss of nose wheel steering, 2 is going flying to get out
of lead's way. In the TO roll if two still had nose wheel steering, it is a
judgment call. Nothing is embedded in concrete. We'll talk about it in the
debrief. You are correct, the last thing we need is for two a/c to be in the
barrier at the same time.
Well since we don't have hooks and barriers, that one was a moot point. We
are talking about round motors and it is a judgment call but me personally,
if I'm two and lead has a bad day, aborts, then I'm going flying any way. We
do this for fun and there is nothing mission critical in what we do.
The point with the two pictures of the YAKs and the CJ's doing formation
T.O.s was that Two is now the flight lead. He rotated and went flying before
lead. For two now to stay in position with lead, he/she is going to have to
pull back on the power, look down at lead, and possibly unintentionally roll
into him while trying to maintain station. The other risk is since lead is
at Vrot not quite flying with two now flying two can pull too much power and
stall while trying to stay in position. Those were the safety issue I was
trying to point out. Two at that point needs to become lead and fly his jet.
Lead becomes two and joins on the new accidental flight lead. They can work
it out on departure, in the area or in debrief.
Talon, you are absolutely correct a picture is what is happening at that
nanosecond in time. But it is worth a 1000 words when it shows something of
interest. The "I fly with this lead all the time and we do it this way"
because we are comfortable with each other is not a warm fuzzy for me that
is. It is an invitation for bent metal and heartache. Sorry, I may be seeing
it all wrong and maybe it is me that is missing the point here. But, I just
had my DO in the office a few minutes ago and showed him the pictures. His
reaction was Holly SHIT! Nuff said does not matter how big the @#$%^& runway
is. We can go to the bar, drink beer, pat each other on the ass, scratch
each other's backs and this was still not recognized as poor technique and
not entirely safe. Two is trying to fly form on lead who is still on the
ground.
Here are two nanosecond shots of it being done right. Well the #2 Scooter is
just a little bit sucked since we are splitting hairs.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N642K
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:39 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
Sorry Doc, I gotta disagree BIG time with this statement;
If lead aborts, 2 aborts. The flight usually
will abort as an element unless lead aborts at rotation
If lead aborts, the worse thing -2 can do is abort as well. We agree that
near rotation -2 goes flying. My point is -2 ALWAYS goes flying. Near
rotation is too subjective. I dont want my wingman guessing about our speed
and then making a decision. That takes too long. Make it easy for him. If
I abort after we apply takeoff power, you go flying.
Say lead aborts. The first thing that happens is -2 blows past him/her.
Thats for a high or slow speed abort! The last thing you expect from the
lead is idle power and brakes. You simply cannot react quickly enough. Now
lead not only has to deal with whatever issue caused the abort but now
he/she has to figure out where -2 is.
Now I'm only aborting for something catastrophic, i.e., the engine coming
apart or a major gear/directional control issue. The best thing -2 can do
is go flying and get off my runway, the same thing I'll do if he calls
aborting as my wingman.
I don't know you. But your call sign says Air Force. In the Navy we had a
agreement in ALL formation take offs -NO SYMPATHETIC ABORTS! Its too easy
to turn a simple indicator problem into an ugly aircraft pile near the end
of the runway.
Mike
Looking forward to your response.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215332#215332
