AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cl
September 12, 2003 - September 29, 2003
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert Schmaderer" <herbert.schmaderer(at)aon.at> |
| Subject: | squelch adjustment om KX 99 handheld radio |
Good afternoon fellows!
I own a KX 99 handheld for many years and it=B4s good quality. Since over one year
I can=B4t use the squelch feature any more. Once i do adjust the squelch so
that no noise is coming through also the incoming voice gets surpressed. I tryed
various ways to get a maintenance manual but was not sucessful so far.
Any comments are appreciated.
best regards
Herbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Phil is right (and the only other correspondent to mention current threats):
"Oh don't hit the starter button with the ammeter in there unless you like
watching smoke rapidly escape from electrical test equipment. :-)"
The problem is finding the culprit before arranging for that size of
current. Otherwise, on finding the fault - ammeter go poopoo. Select a large
current to test, then (on suspicion) range downward to measure the fault
accurately.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Strap Location? |
>
>
>A short side note,
>
>just make sure you clean the location where you add the strap very
>toroughly, I had an engine start problem first, because I did not do it
>good enough (was hard to get the backed paint from the lug).
>
>BTW on my O-320 it was an AN-5 hole.
Someone mentioned an AN-3 (3/16") hardware connection,
I'd MUCH rather see something larger. 1/4" is minimum,
5/16" is great. Clean mating surfaces well, torque to
50 in-lb for 1/4", 90 in-lb for 5/16" unless instructions
for your engine says otherwise. It's that terminal deforming
"mash" that gets you the gas-tight, works-good-lasts-a-long-time
connection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
>
>
>Bob, sorry I missed the start of this discussion - "this simple system" -
>are you & D J talking about a "low voltage warning module" that B&C sells?
>What would I look for on the B&C website (I just looked and didn't see
>anything like you all are talking about)? Or, are you only talking about a
>lamp (LED) fixture that is fed from a pin of the the LR3 external voltage
>regulator?
B&C's regulators have low voltage warning built in. I have
a Low Voltage Warning and Aux Battery Management Module
that you can see at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.html
Either one or a DIY project like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
is a good idea for any airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Would anyone happen to have a pin-out for a KI-208 cdi? Will be used with a
KX125.
Thanks, Bob Devaney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian & Debi Shannon" <wings(at)theshannons.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Little recognition lights |
Check out these lights....
http://www.leadingedgeaircraft.com/airlite1.html
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the explanation |
In a message dated 09/11/2003 11:07:11 PM Central Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
Do you plan to crank with both
Batteries?
Yes:
I thought that is what the Z-14 allows you to do. I have already done a
load analysis, its been awhile since you have seen it. I briefly showed it to
you in Nashville this past Feb.
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the explanation |
>
>In a message dated 09/11/2003 11:07:11 PM Central Standard Time,
>bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>Do you plan to crank with both
> Batteries?
>Yes:
>
> I thought that is what the Z-14 allows you to do. I have already done a
>load analysis, its been awhile since you have seen it. I briefly showed it to
>you in Nashville this past Feb.
>
>Ed Silvanic
Okay . . . very good. Z-14 with even the most rudimentary
level of battery maintenance gives you an order of system
reliability not found on any other airplanes I've seen.
Sounds like you're well under control.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Would anyone happen to have a pin-out for a KI-208 cdi? Will be used with a
>KX125.
>Thanks, Bob Devaney
> http://216.55.140.222/Installation_Data/KI208-209.pdf
http://216.55.140.222/Installation_Data/KI208A-209A.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing & Taxi lights |
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
Hi all,
I'm going to upgrade my panel and electrical architecture this winter.
I'm doing the panel layout phase and was wondering about the landing and
taxi lights.
Currently the landing and taxi lights are individually operated through
their own switches. What would be the pros and cons of this setup vs.
having them both on the same switch? Beyond that, how about a 3
position switch with one position wig-wag? Then does it make more sense
to have the wig-wag come on first or the continuous first (middle switch
position)?
Thanks,
Dave
All electric, Aero Electric E.I., GRT Horizon 1, Digiflight II 200 &
Garmin 430. Haven't decided, dual batteries or dual alternators...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Landing & Taxi lights |
I'm planning to have the landing and taxi lights on one switch with
positions off, taxi, and both with the wig-wag a separate switch, since
it's a recognition function similar to the strobes. Since mine is a
taildragger, I'm assuming that the taxi light will need to be aimed
quite a bit lower, but I'll want both lights on during landing so that
the taxi light will come into play as the tail settles and the landing
light rotates up too high. Right now I'm planning a row of four switches
for lights in this order: strobes, wig-wag, position lights,
taxi/landing.
William Slaughter
Houston Texas
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
David.vonLinsowe
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Landing & Taxi lights
-->
Hi all,
I'm going to upgrade my panel and electrical architecture this winter.
I'm doing the panel layout phase and was wondering about the landing and
taxi lights.
Currently the landing and taxi lights are individually operated through
their own switches. What would be the pros and cons of this setup vs.
having them both on the same switch? Beyond that, how about a 3
position switch with one position wig-wag? Then does it make more sense
to have the wig-wag come on first or the continuous first (middle switch
position)?
Thanks,
Dave
All electric, Aero Electric E.I., GRT Horizon 1, Digiflight II 200 &
Garmin 430. Haven't decided, dual batteries or dual alternators...
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OV Module question for Bob |
>
> What's preventing you from putting in a 2-10? They're
> exactly the same size and wire up the same way. I don't
> see that it's a grinding "requirement " to label the
> mid position and the existing labels are true and
> correct for the extreme positions.
>
For panel space reasons our switches are miniature models. My buddy
carefully chose them, installed them, even aligned the screw slots.
When -and if- I tell him he has to change to a different and bigger model
for the master switch I'm afraid he'll get some tar and feathers ;-)
The engine is a Rotax and your OV setup is the only one I heard of for this
type of engine. So I'd better stick to it. After reading those messages
about nuisance trips and the newer version of your OV module, I was only
asking just in case.
Cheers
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OV Module question for Bob |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> >
> > What's preventing you from putting in a 2-10? They're
> > exactly the same size and wire up the same way. I don't
> > see that it's a grinding "requirement " to label the
> > mid position and the existing labels are true and
> > correct for the extreme positions.
> >
>For panel space reasons our switches are miniature models. My buddy
>carefully chose them, installed them, even aligned the screw slots.
>When -and if- I tell him he has to change to a different and bigger model
>for the master switch I'm afraid he'll get some tar and feathers ;-)
Hmmmm . . . miniature toggles? you can get the 2-10 function in
these as well.
>The engine is a Rotax and your OV setup is the only one I heard of for this
>type of engine. So I'd better stick to it. After reading those messages
>about nuisance trips and the newer version of your OV module, I was only
>asking just in case.
Okay, for the moment, let's get your airplane flying by
pulling the breaker during startup. You have plenty of
other issues to address with getting a new airplane flying.
When this one bubbles back to the top of the list, we'll
do some experimenting to see if we can identify and implement
a fix.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Good afternoon Bob,
>I installed two 17 amp batteries and one 40 amp alternator in my RV4. I
>thought you had a drawing showing this set up. I can't seem to find it on
>your web site. Is it still a good idea?
>Regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 # 2888
sure. don't know why not. You can add an extra battery to
any existing battery with addition of a battery contactor,
battery, battery bus and battery master switch. This is
illustrated in Figure Z-30 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi Bob,
Thank you very much. I had the drawing all the time in my documents!
Best regards,
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question!
>
> >
> >Good afternoon Bob,
> >I installed two 17 amp batteries and one 40 amp alternator in my RV4. I
> >thought you had a drawing showing this set up. I can't seem to find it on
> >your web site. Is it still a good idea?
> >Regards,
> >Bruce Bell
> >Lubbock, Texas
> >RV4 # 2888
>
> sure. don't know why not. You can add an extra battery to
> any existing battery with addition of a battery contactor,
> battery, battery bus and battery master switch. This is
> illustrated in Figure Z-30 of
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Wig-wag flasher questions |
Hi Bob,
Regarding the wig-wag flasher wiring diagram on your website, I have a
couple of questions:
1. I would like to use the single switch method on page 3 of the
diagram, but I would like to wire it such that the middle position is
"On" and the upper position is "Flash." It appears that I can do this
just by reversing the outputs of pins 1 & 4 on the switch. Is this
true, or am I missing something.
2. I am concerned about the voltage drop using the bridge rectifier
causing a reduction in brightness of the lamps. I believe the
Connection says that these diodes have a forward voltage drop of about
.6V. My own measurements show this drop to be about .8V when used in my
E-bus setup. This is using the diode I got from B & C. I picked up a
similar diode from the Shack, pn 276-1185, and it lists the forward
voltage drop as 1.7V. Is this at the full 50V? Is the drop linear with
respect to input voltage? Does it vary with current? Most importantly,
does this small voltage drop result in a noticeable loss of light at the
lamp?
Jeff Point
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WHigg1170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ground block location |
Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location. I don't
have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the cabin
side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in the way and
also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit. Thanks
Bill
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
I'm trying to get Orcad to lay out my electrical systems, and I've found
Cadence Orcad 9.2
and
CADENCE ORCAD UNISON SUITE 2002
Which one do I want?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom..." <tsled(at)pacbell.net> |
Hiya,
Cadence bought OrCAD about 3 years ago and added their name. I have used
OrCAD for 12 years to do schematics and what I am using today is OrCAD 9.2
but it is NOT an inexpensive package, and some of the symbols don't look as
pretty as some of the other schematic capture packages out there. But if
you are designing CPU boards it is a GREAT program.
Tom...
Intel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
richard(at)riley.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Orcad question
I'm trying to get Orcad to lay out my electrical systems, and I've found
Cadence Orcad 9.2
and
CADENCE ORCAD UNISON SUITE 2002
Which one do I want?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
Orcad is a schematic layout tool, used for designing circuits. It's WAY more than
you need unless you actually want to build, say, a graphical fuel flow meter
and want to lay out the schematic and PCB for that.
Consider an inexpensive (or free) traditional CAD tool and Bob's pre-made electrical
bus icons (which he has so kindly made available in .DWG format on his Web
site). If you insist on a true schematic layout tool, there are numerous free
options, such as what comes from ExpressPCB.com. But Orcad is a multi-thousand-dollar
package and laying out fuses and switches is, well, sort of beneath
it. =)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard(at)riley.net [mailto:richard(at)riley.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:43 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Orcad question
>
>
> I'm trying to get Orcad to lay out my electrical systems, and I've found
>
> Cadence Orcad 9.2
> and
> CADENCE ORCAD UNISON SUITE 2002
>
> Which one do I want?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Magneto with electronic Ignition |
Members of the Aeroelectric List: I am looking at figure Z-27 ( page Z-20 )
showing the use of two (2-3) switches to control each ignition side and to
kill the push to start circuit when the right side ignition is on. I see
that to initially start the engine we turn on the left and close/flip/press
the start switch or button. ( The right ignition switch must be off for
starting) After the engine is started and running on the left side only, we
close the right side ignition for normal dual ignition operations. (With
that, it is impossible to energize the starter with the right side ignition
on.)
Now my question: I am not understanding how this two-switch setup in Z-27
allows for run up testing of each side of the ignition system. I am missing
something about how magnetos work or how they are grounded out so they do
not function. We prove the right ignition function, I deduce, by turning
off the left ignition/magneto switch. Then we turn the left switch back on
and continue with testing the right side. But, looks to me when I go to
prove the left ignition by turning off the right ignition switch that the
engine should die because both the right side AND the start switch provide
energy for the left side. ( Or is the left side now running on its own and
does not need energy from the main buss? ) I am missing something and need
a dumb boy's 101 schooling session here. ( Understanding something is one
step further than knowing something.)
Seems to me Z-28 could work for one magneto one EI with reasonable
protection using very simple 1-3 switches if the start button was under a
flip up protector or recessed in a hole of some sort.
Larry in Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal Garvin" <ngarvin(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
Bob,
I used an AN-4 bolt, not brass, to connect two large, soldered on wire lugs
together on a solid fiberglass tab on the inside of the fuselage behind the
panel. The two lugs are on the same side of the tab, back-to-back, not
separated by the fiberglass.
The reason I didn't use brass is I wanted to really mash it down to get that
"air-tight" connection and I was concerned a brass bolt would break to
easily. Should I keep a watch for any dis-similar metal corrosion or other
problems related to using an AN bolt?
-Neal Garvin
Glasair N15F
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Strap Location?
>
>B&C sells a braided bonding strap. The description of it states:
>
>". . . Engine mounts should not be part of the electrical circuitry for
>the engine; these bonding straps establish the appropriate pathway for
>starter and alternator currents to the airframe. . . ."
>
>(I have to take that with a grain of salt as my airplane is a Long-EZ,
>so routing "starter and alternator currents to the airframe" is futile.
> But they do need to route to the battery of course.)
>
>If not an engine mount bolt, where specifically should the engine ground
>strap connection be made. I'm particularly interested in the proper
>location(s) for my Lycoming O-235 as it currently uses an engine mount
>bolt.
DC power ground should come through your firewall on a
5/16" (min) or 3/8" (better) brass bolt. This bolt may or
may not be associated with a firewall ground bus as illustrated
in http://www.bandc.biz/GroundBlock.html
The bonding strap should run from some bolt on the crankcase
to the firewall penetration stud . . . others on the list
can advise you of where they found suitable bolts on or near
the rear of their Lycoming engines.
A #2 ground wire continues forward from that bolt to a panel
ground bus and from there on forward to the battery (-) terminal.
See view -B- of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/z15ak.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <George_Bass_0(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orcad question |
I know many folks dislike adding to the over-abundance
of money generating products (quite a few of which do
nothing for the purchaser) of MS, but one product that I
use and find very usefull for schematic, and designing of
many personal projects is VISIO from Microsoft.
This program was created by an independant company,
but, turned out to be so good, and so compatible, that MS
bought them out completely, and MS now markets VISIO
as one of their own products.
There are a great many 'templates' available from simple
sets like "office" pieces, to complex and specific design
symbols used for "crime scene investigation" and others
that are especially for electrical, or many other fields.
Hope this helps (BTW, it isn't expensive),
George
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
>
>
>Orcad is a schematic layout tool, used for designing circuits. It's WAY
>more than you need unless you actually want to build, say, a graphical
>fuel flow meter and want to lay out the schematic and PCB for that.
>
>Consider an inexpensive (or free) traditional CAD tool and Bob's pre-made
>electrical bus icons (which he has so kindly made available in .DWG format
>on his Web site). If you insist on a true schematic layout tool, there are
>numerous free options, such as what comes from ExpressPCB.com. But Orcad
>is a multi-thousand-dollar package and laying out fuses and switches is,
>well, sort of beneath it. =)
There are two reasons to use Orcad in this instance. First, it's not my
money. The Very Large Aerospace Company that I work for has decided (in
their infinite wisdom) that I can get free training in Orcad, and a copy of
it on my laptop. And, yes, I'm allowed to take the laptop home with me and
use it on my own projects, since that will help me get proficient at using
it. Oddly, nobody seems to have noticed that my job has *nothing* to do
with electronics. But that's beside the point.
The second reason is that the EE/Nasa tech that's helping me wire my plane
is already standardized on Orcad, and this way we can pass drawings back
and forth easily.
So - which is the newest and bestest version - 9.2, or suite 2002?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dmorisse" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Question: Bob's Bus Icons |
I tried to find Bob's bus icons in Aeroelectric.com, but was unable. Can
someone give me a link to them please?
Darrel
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Orcad question
From: "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com>
Orcad is a schematic layout tool, used for designing circuits. It's WAY
more than
you need unless you actually want to build, say, a graphical fuel flow
meter
and want to lay out the schematic and PCB for that.
Consider an inexpensive (or free) traditional CAD tool and Bob's pre-made
electrical
bus icons (which he has so kindly made available in .DWG format on his Web
site). If you insist on a true schematic layout tool, there are numerous
free
options, such as what comes from ExpressPCB.com. But Orcad is a
multi-thousand-dollar
package and laying out fuses and switches is, well, sort of beneath
it. =)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
> There are two reasons to use Orcad in this instance. First, it's not my
> money. ... The second reason is that the EE/Nasa tech that's helping me
> wire my plane is already standardized on Orcad, and this way we can
> pass drawings back and forth easily.
>
> So - which is the newest and bestest version - 9.2, or suite 2002?
In that case, Unison Suite is the newest version. However, again, either of these
products is still going to be fighting bank robbers with nukes. They include
PCB layout and circuit simulation tools you'll probably never use, and you won't
find symbols similar to Bob's - switches are fairly basic, bus bars are just
thicker lines, etc.
The reason I continue to advocate for another product is because Orcad's very capabilities
make the product somewhat complex to use. It's designed for a completely
different job. Of course, if you're only drawing batteries, relays, and
wires it's probably not a big deal. But you won't find symbols similar to Bob's.
If you're looking to learn Orcad, fine. I'm just saying you might find it a frustrating
tool to use for this because it was designed for such a different task.
Actually, I would second the recommendation somebody made earlier of using
Visio. It's ideally suited for the task, and making new symbols is somewhat easier
for those elements that don't already exist for you.
Incidentally, if you care at all about ease of use you may prefer 9.2. I found
it SOMEWHAT more straightforward (though there wasn't a huge change between the
two).
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OV Module question for Bob |
>
> Hmmmm . . . miniature toggles? you can get the 2-10 function in
> these as well.
>
Ah, interesting.
> After reading those messages
> >about nuisance trips and the newer version of your OV module, I was only
> >asking just in case.
>
> Okay, for the moment, let's get your airplane flying by
> pulling the breaker during startup. You have plenty of
> other issues to address with getting a new airplane flying.
> When this one bubbles back to the top of the list, we'll
> do some experimenting to see if we can identify and implement
> a fix.
Thanks for your help.
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
Bob,
> >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
OV'd
> The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> to be flashing in your face . . .
That's good to know. What makes it start to flash -- is it that the LR3C
detects the absence of charge, or is it simply a product of voltage drop?
I'm somewhat unclear on that sort of thing.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC power panel minutia
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >This post prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me for
some
> >time. It's a duffer kind of a question, so bear with me.
> >
> >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
OV'd
> >and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I suppose I _might_ notice
a
> >breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't know if the ANL-40 went.
> >It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way across the water
and
> >suddenly realise that I was running out of battery power because I hadn't
> >noticed it failing three hours ago.
> >
> >It's a B&C 40A alternator and B&C LR3C.
>
> The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> to be flashing in your face . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
>
>Bob,
>
>I used an AN-4 bolt, not brass, to connect two large, soldered on wire lugs
>together on a solid fiberglass tab on the inside of the fuselage behind the
>panel. The two lugs are on the same side of the tab, back-to-back, not
>separated by the fiberglass.
>
>The reason I didn't use brass is I wanted to really mash it down to get that
>"air-tight" connection and I was concerned a brass bolt would break to
>easily. Should I keep a watch for any dis-similar metal corrosion or other
>problems related to using an AN bolt?
The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
responsibilities, it should be brass.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> responsibilities, it should be brass.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Good Morning Bob,
Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of handling
a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging Issues |
Just a note to let you know that after following your advice by changing
the wiring in my charging system everything did smooth out nicely.
The ammeter is now steady, and the voltage has stabilized at 14.4
Pleased to hear there was a practical solution
to the problem . . .
The job however was back breaking. Working under the panel on a completed
RV is tough, but after a test flight one more trip to secure some
wire and I hope to be out of there for a while.
Been there and done that . . . not sure there ever
was an airplane that was maintenance friendly.
Good luck!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> > >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
>OV'd
>
> > The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> > seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> > to be flashing in your face . . .
>
>That's good to know. What makes it start to flash -- is it that the LR3C
>detects the absence of charge, or is it simply a product of voltage drop?
>I'm somewhat unclear on that sort of thing.
Low voltage warning is just that . . . low voltage warning.
Batteries charge and alternators run at 13.8 and higher.
Batteries discharge at 12.5 and lower. So if you watch the
bus and turn on a light below 13.0 volts, it's as useful
an indication as any that the alternator is not doing it's
job.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question: Bob's Bus Icons |
>
>
>I tried to find Bob's bus icons in Aeroelectric.com, but was unable. Can
>someone give me a link to them please?
>Darrel
Icons? Do you mean the drawing symbols? You can download
any of the drawings in .dwg AutoCAD format from
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
and cut-n-paste any symbols used into a new drawing
if you have compatible software. There are three
compatible cad programs offered as well as all of
the drawings on CD Rom which you can purchase
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
or download at:
www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/library/CDs/AEC8_0.zip
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig-wag flasher questions |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Regarding the wig-wag flasher wiring diagram on your website, I have a
>couple of questions:
>
>1. I would like to use the single switch method on page 3 of the
>diagram, but I would like to wire it such that the middle position is
>"On" and the upper position is "Flash." It appears that I can do this
>just by reversing the outputs of pins 1 & 4 on the switch. Is this
>true, or am I missing something.
That will work.
>2. I am concerned about the voltage drop using the bridge rectifier
>causing a reduction in brightness of the lamps. I believe the
>Connection says that these diodes have a forward voltage drop of about
>.6V. My own measurements show this drop to be about .8V when used in my
>E-bus setup. This is using the diode I got from B & C. I picked up a
>similar diode from the Shack, pn 276-1185, and it lists the forward
>voltage drop as 1.7V. Is this at the full 50V? Is the drop linear with
>respect to input voltage? Does it vary with current? Most importantly,
>does this small voltage drop result in a noticeable loss of light at the
>lamp?
Try this. Have a friend set in his car 1/2 mile away on a dark road
and have him turn on his headlights ten times in a row for about 5
seconds each time.
Ask him to randomly have the engine running (bus 14.5 or higher) and engine
not running (bus 13.0 or lower) for each on-cycle. Ask him to start
and stop the engine only while the lights are off.
You watch the ten flashes of headlights and write down whether
you perceive the bus voltage in his car to be above or below
13 volts for each interval of observable light. My guess is that
your listing of perceived lamp intensity for each interval will
have no relation to fact . . . if indeed you perceive any
difference at all.
By the way, the 1.7v drop rating is the specified MAX drop
for a diode under some conditions which are never realized
in the steady state application for the part is used.
I can pick out cars with failed alternators on the highway
but it has to do with COLOR of the light and not intensity.
So try see if you can discern any color differences in the light
for the experiment described above.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
I have been biting my tongue on this thread. It is good if you are using a
bronze or brass bolt for a ground point. It is weaker but as it isn't
structural, its strength is immaterial. If you break it by overtightening,
replace it with another brass or bronze bolt as you want the conductivity,
not super strength. The most important fixture in your house is held with
brass or bronze bolts! They work well other wise you couldn't give a....
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt?
>
> In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
> bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> Good Morning Bob,
>
> Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
> If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of
handling
> a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto with electronic Ignition |
>
>
>Members of the Aeroelectric List: I am looking at figure Z-27 ( page Z-20 )
>showing the use of two (2-3) switches to control each ignition side and to
>kill the push to start circuit when the right side ignition is on. I see
>that to initially start the engine we turn on the left and close/flip/press
>the start switch or button. ( The right ignition switch must be off for
>starting) After the engine is started and running on the left side only, we
>close the right side ignition for normal dual ignition operations. (With
>that, it is impossible to energize the starter with the right side ignition
>on.)
>
>Now my question: I am not understanding how this two-switch setup in Z-27
>allows for run up testing of each side of the ignition system. I am missing
>something about how magnetos work or how they are grounded out so they do
>not function. We prove the right ignition function, I deduce, by turning
>off the left ignition/magneto switch. Then we turn the left switch back on
>and continue with testing the right side. But, looks to me when I go to
>prove the left ignition by turning off the right ignition switch that the
>engine should die because both the right side AND the start switch provide
>energy for the left side. ( Or is the left side now running on its own and
>does not need energy from the main buss? ) I am missing something and need
>a dumb boy's 101 schooling session here. ( Understanding something is one
>step further than knowing something.)
There is an error in Figure Z-27. The intent was to show
how to interlock the ignition switches to disable a non-impulse
coupled magneto when paired with an electronic ignition.
Here's the corrected drawing:
http://216.55.140.222/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-27_r11.pdf
Thanks for the heads-up. You're the first to catch this
problem . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
>
>In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>Good Morning Bob,
>
>Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
>If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of handling
>a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
Copper, brass and bronze will exhibit tensile strengths on
the order of 50K, 100K and 200K psi for each material. Conductivity
will be 100%, 28% and 13% for the various alloys. So, it's
a trade off . . . Fat copper bolts for strength or VERY fat bronze
bolts for conductivity. Iron and steel are on the same order
as bronze for conductivity.
Brass hardware is readily available and a reasonable compromise.
Even so, conductivity is not likely to become an issue in most airplanes
until you step up to 100A plus systems with lots of electric
heat or air conditioning loads that can be high and sustained.
But steel hardware with high electrical loading IS a concern.
The only electrical fire I ever started was the result of
mis-applied steel hardware in the conduction path.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground block location |
>
>Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location. I don't
>have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the cabin
>side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in the
>way and
>also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit. Thanks
>
>Bill
>RV-6
Can any RV builders help Bill out with this?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground block location |
Not knowing about the #2 cables in the kit - but I have done a bit of
research and have installed my ground block to the right of the cutout for
the oil filter/governor indent.
With the battery in the original location the cable run shouldn't be more
than 12". I am getting documentation on placing the battery on the engine
side (a la RV7/9) - with the other side of the ground block giving me a
similar cable access hopefully to the new location.
Contact me offline and I can send you some digitals......and point you to
the research that I have done.....again I don't know about the cables in the
kit!
Ralph Capen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground block location
>
> >
> >Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location. I
don't
> >have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the
cabin
> >side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in the
> >way and
> >also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit.
Thanks
> >
> >Bill
> >RV-6
>
> Can any RV builders help Bill out with this?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig-wag flasher questions |
That leads me to my next question. I have the LR3C voltage regulator,
which is set to 14.4V from the factory (according to the manual, haven't
measured it.) I am using the Panasonic 17 amp battery, which wants 14.5
to 14.9V for cycle use charging. The battery is on the engine side of
the firewall. Should I set the regulator to 14.5, 14.9 or somewhere in
between? I am not terribly worried about the heat effecting the long
term life of the battery; for $36 from Digikey I can afford to swap it
out at every annual if necessary.
Here is the data sheet on the battery, for reference:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Panasonic/Web%20data/LC-RD1217P,%20LC-RD1217AP.pdf
Jeff Point
>
> By the way, the 1.7v drop rating is the specified MAX drop
> for a diode under some conditions which are never realized
> in the steady state application for the part is used.
>
> I can pick out cars with failed alternators on the highway
> but it has to do with COLOR of the light and not intensity.
> So try see if you can discern any color differences in the light
> for the experiment described above.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass
Bolt?
-->
>
>In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>Good Morning Bob,
>
>Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
>If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of
>handling a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics
>be?
Copper, brass and bronze will exhibit tensile strengths on
the order of 50K, 100K and 200K psi for each material. Conductivity
will be 100%, 28% and 13% for the various alloys. So, it's
a trade off . . . Fat copper bolts for strength or VERY fat bronze
bolts for conductivity. Iron and steel are on the same order
as bronze for conductivity.
Brass hardware is readily available and a reasonable compromise.
Even so, conductivity is not likely to become an issue in most
airplanes
until you step up to 100A plus systems with lots of electric
heat or air conditioning loads that can be high and sustained.
But steel hardware with high electrical loading IS a concern.
The only electrical fire I ever started was the result of
mis-applied steel hardware in the conduction path.
Bob . . .
Actually the Ultimate tensile strength for the three red metals
mentioned are:
UNS C11000 electrolytic copper (full hard) 48 KSI (48,000 psi),
(full soft) 32 KSI
UNS C360 Free cutting brass (full hard) 68 KSI, (full soft) 49 KSI
UNS C932 Bearing Bronze (83% Cu) 35 KSI
UNS C1018 cold rolled steel (commercial grade bolts) 64 KSI, AN bolts
100 - 140 KSI
As you can see from the mechanical properties of these materials that
both copper and brass have reasonably good mechanical strength with good
electrical conductivity. Bronze has poor mechanical strength and poor
conductivity.
Chris Stone
ME
RV-8 wings
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
>
>
>Actually the Ultimate tensile strength for the three red metals
>mentioned are:
>
>UNS C11000 electrolytic copper (full hard) 48 KSI (48,000 psi),
>(full soft) 32 KSI
>
>UNS C360 Free cutting brass (full hard) 68 KSI, (full soft) 49 KSI
>
>UNS C932 Bearing Bronze (83% Cu) 35 KSI
>
>UNS C1018 cold rolled steel (commercial grade bolts) 64 KSI, AN bolts
>100 - 140 KSI
>
>As you can see from the mechanical properties of these materials that
>both copper and brass have reasonably good mechanical strength with good
>electrical conductivity. Bronze has poor mechanical strength and poor
>conductivity.
I went back to see where I dug up the earlier numbers. I see
that my bronze strength was acquired by clicking on
the wrong box . . . Beryllium Copper.
Yup, bronze is not so nearly robust a stuff but I don't
think they would make bolts out of bearing/bushing material.
http://www.precisionsteel.com/intro5.cfm?Properties=True&ProductType=BronzeA
suggests that we can heat treat to something on the order
of 98Kpsi although one would probably have to special
order such parts. I suspect bronze marine hardware
is not nearly so robust.
Cy's point was rather profound . . . these are, after
all, not structural parts . . . however I will suggest
they are single points of failure for the system. A
quick look at recommended torque values for brass hardware
has most authors coming down at just under low-carbon
steel fasteners. 5/16-18 threaded hardware (supplied with
B&C ground busses) can certainly be torqued to 100 lb-in
which should cover us well for both electrical concerns
about fastener conductivity and mechanical concerns for
terminal crush.
Bob . . .
>Chris Stone
>ME
>RV-8 wings
>
>
>direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Voltage Drop (Wig-wag) |
>Jeff Point
>2. I am concerned about the voltage drop using the bridge rectifier
>causing a reduction in brightness of the lamps. I believe the
>Connection says that these diodes have a forward voltage drop of about
>.6V. My own measurements show this drop to be about .8V when used in my
>E-bus setup. This is using the diode I got from B & C. I picked up a
>similar diode from the Shack, pn 276-1185, and it lists the forward
>voltage drop as 1.7V. Is this at the full 50V? Is the drop linear with
>respect to input voltage? Does it vary with current? Most importantly,
>does this small voltage drop result in a noticeable loss of light at the
>lamp?
>Try this. Have a friend set in his car 1/2 mile away on a dark road
>and have him turn on his headlights ten times in a row for about 5
>seconds each time.
Now Bob....Jeff got to this argument late, so let me rehash--
If you run Radio Shack diode, pn 276-1185 with a current of 5 amps, you wind
up with 0.85 Volts drop. At 16A you get 0.94V. The forward voltage drop Vf
is not linear and goes up with temperature and current (not voltage) and is
maximum at max current. I don't think Radio Shack sells any 1.7Vf parts, but
you can measure this with any meter.
Reasonable people differ on this but I think it is there is a lot to be said
for using Schottky diodes in this application. At 5 amps the Vf is only
0.32V, at 16 A it is 0.35V.
Now why would anyone care about such small Vf differences? Well, it's
because the electricity you use in an airplane or by a battery OR by an
airplane battery(!) is expensive stuff indeed. And the use of power
Schottkys is the engineering standard in battery operated systems, and where
power loss is critical. Contemporary designers don't use p/n diodes in
low-volt power applications.
How much power is lost? There are a lot of ways to paint it but
Powerloss=IV(forward). So for 16A you lose 16x0.94Watts=15 Watts. This is
dissipated as heat so you'll need a big heatsink. For the Schottky you'll
lose 16X0.35=5.6 Watts so you need only a very small heatsink if any at all.
And yes it is easy to see the difference in lamp brightness.
I don't know how you calculate the energy costs in an airplane, but the
ultimate cost of using P/N diodes (especially in a bridge) has got to be
significant. So use Schottkys. Buy mine or get your own.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
When the Okies moved to California
they raised the average IQ of both states.
---Will Rogers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AV-10 failure... |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
Hi all,
I have an AV-10 Engine Monitor installed in my Long EZ. The unit failed totally
in August (prior to first flight) and I have been unable to contact Peter Rummell
(AV-10 engineer) for support/repair. Peter had been supplying solid support
via email for my installation in June / July '03. This has delayed my first
flight. I know a number of you are running these units. I could really use a
current phone number or any other contact information if you have it.
I have tried the following contact details:
AFA
Peter Rummell
60 Penn Ave,
Toronto, Ontario, M2L 1N1
Canada
40 McNab Blvd
Scarborough, Ontario, M1M 2W5
Canada
EMAIL:
afatechsupport(at)rogers.com
lindaryall(at)rogers.com
wedgie(at)interlog.com
Phone numbers:
416 264 0968 (what I thought was current)
416 593 9990
426 264 5134 (old)
1800 737 9185 (old)
416 698 6928 (old)
Many thanks,
Regards
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, USA
(253) 520 0447 (AH)
(253) 773 9829 (BH)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | DIP headers for DIY Audio project |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
To the person who was asking about DIP headers for the DIY audio mixer amp, Web-Tronics
also carries these at reasonable prices:
http://www.web-tronics.com/general-supplies-for-electronics-sockets-forked-dip-headers.html
Bob, DigiKey still doesn't have stock on this part - they may be discontinuing
it. You may want to list the source above (or another) as an alternate source
for this part, or update the document to reflect a different method of installing
those resistors. For what it's worth, the firm above also sells other items
that may be useful in this project, including PCB fabrication products, project
boxes, DB-x connectors, etc.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AV-10 failure... |
I-Blackler, Wayne R wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>I have an AV-10 Engine Monitor installed in my Long EZ.I have been unable to contact
Peter Rummell (AV-10 engineer) for support/repair. Peter had been supplying
solid support via email for my installation in June / July '03. I could
really use a current phone number or any other contact information if you have
it.
>
>I have tried the following contact details:
>
>AFA
>Peter Rummell
>60 Penn Ave.,
>Toronto, Ontario, M2L 1N1
>Canada
>
>40 McNab Blvd
>Scarborough, Ontario, M1M 2W5
>Canada
>
>EMAIL:
>afatechsupport(at)rogers.com
>lindaryall(at)rogers.com
>wedgie(at)interlog.com
>
>Phone numbers:
>416 264 0968 (what I thought was current)
>416 593 9990
>426 264 5134 (old)
>1800 737 9185 (old)
>416 698 6928 (old)
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Regards
>
>Wayne Blackler
>IO-360 Long EZ
>Seattle, USA
>(253) 520 0447 (AH)
>(253) 773 9829 (BH)
>
Wayne;
The telephone number 416-593-9990 is currently listed in the Toronto
electronic phone directory as P. Rummell, 43 Elm St., Toronto, ON.,
Canada M5G-2K5 The number 416-264-0968 is listed as "unknown",
416-264-5134 is P. Rummell, Scarborough, ON Canada, M1M-2W5 (no street
address given), 416-698-6928 is T. Craigie, Scarborough, ON Canada,
M1N-1V6. The 1-800 number I don't have access to check. The "valid"
numbers are both residential.
Hopefully with one of these numbers you can restore your contact. Note
you have an area code error in one of your numbers, one of the "old"
numbers seems to have been re-assigned, and the number you show as
"current" appears to be no longer valid.
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
| From: | "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)Smartm.com> |
Listers,
I"m in the process of creating a Failure Effects Mode Analysis to check my work
on panel/electrical system design for my RV-8. Also, this will be used to show
the FAA DAR that I know what I'm doing in building an IFR capable ship. I
have never done this on the job, so I'm trying to teach myself. So far, I have
pages of statements followed by bullets, which is cumbersome, requiring a ton
of reading to get to the point. I would prefer a graphical format, but I'm
not creative enough to design one. Has one of you gone thru with something similar,
and if so, would you be willing to share how your analysis looks with
this beginner?
Arthur Treff
Asheville, NC
828-281-0044
RV-8 N666AT (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | [Tagged] Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
Type into Google "free fault tree analysis" and see what happens.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John F. Herminghaus" <catignano(at)tele2.it> |
Bob:
Sometime ago you recommended the MFJ-259B SWR analyzer, but according
the specifications (1.8 to 170 MHZ) it does not cover GPS frequencies.
What do you suggest?
John Herminghaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting Ground Bus |
Bob,
I have your AeroConnection Book and monitor this list. Lots of great info from
both sources... However, I still am a bit confused about how to mount the Ground
Bus to a metal firewall in an all metal airplane (RV-7A).
Does the ground bus mount DIRECTLY to the firewall or is it mounted on stand-offs?
If it is mounted directly to the firewall, how is running all the ground
wires to local ground connections any different than going to the Ground Bus?
I must be missing something simple here.
Thanks for all your help.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
You made me curious so I looked it up - the following are in units of
micro-ohm-cm if I deciphered the table correctly:
Copper wire - 1.7
Aluminum (pure) - 2.8
Brass - 6.21, or about 4 times the resistance of copper
Steel - 15 to 45 with harder (stronger) materials having the higher numbers
A note in Mark's Handbook says bronze alloys can have 25 to 85% of the
conductivity of copper with tensile strengths up to 130,000 psi, just as Bob
said. I was surprised to see how poorly steel conducts electricity. The
resistance of steel is 10 to 30 times that of copper. Aluminum is a poorer
conductor than copper per unit volume, but better per unit weight - hence
the use of aluminum for electrical transmission wires and some aircraft
battery cables.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Z-14 Transient Suppressor |
Bob,
I'm puzzled and hope you can help clear this up for me. I am following the
Z-14 wiring plan and I see an item which is labeled as a "transient
suppressor", but there is no note, p/n, etc. Can you explain what this
is, and if I need it.
Thanks,
Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WHigg1170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Light dimmer instruction question. |
I have a question on the instructions for the Aero Electric 1.5 AMP Light
dimmer. In the instructions there is a note that says (There are to variations
of
the dimmer assembly that use different pin numbers appropriate to the
revision level of your dimmer) What dose this mean? I see the two ways to hook
up the
pins but don't now what one to use or what the revision level is or means.
Thanks for any help.
Bill Higgins
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jimk36(at)comcast.net> |
Bob et al --
I'm presently planning to equip my F1 Rocket with 2 alternators and a single batt.as
per Z-12. My question is with respect to batt failure in flight and possible
negative effect on alternator{s} powering the system.
Over many years with automobiles and airplanes [too many years] I have had numerous
batt failures, usually but not always due to poor maintenance, and alternator
failures. But I have never had a batt failure which, with the engine running,
inhibited the ability of the alternator to power the electrics.
I expect that if engine RPM is less than that needed by the alternator to support
the load, and the batt is discharged, at some point power to the field will
drop below minimum and the lights will go out.
Are there other conditions one should be concerned about?
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | DIY all-electric AOA |
Anybody know of a schematic for an all electric angle of attack indicator that
uses pressure transducers in the wing to drive a simple colored bar graph?
Thanks!
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | DIY all-electric AOA |
If you literally mean a schematic for rolling your own AOA I don't have the
answer, but if you want to buy one check out http://www.angleofattack.com/
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sigma Eta
Aero
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DIY all-electric AOA
Anybody know of a schematic for an all electric angle of attack indicator
that uses pressure transducers in the wing to drive a simple colored bar
graph?
Thanks!
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Battery on Engine side of firewall |
Fellow listers,
The RV 7 and 9 crowds (with new recomendations to the 6 guys) are putting
their batteries (Odyssey)forward of the firewall according to the firewall
forward info I'm now getting from Vans with the firewall forward kit.
Are there compelling reasons NOT to do this?
I can think of heat....! Maybe those batteries are immune!?
I'm not too far past this point - is it time to go back and make this so?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Already put my grounding block where this new battery box is supposed to
go......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
>
>
>Listers,
>I"m in the process of creating a Failure Effects Mode Analysis to check my
>work on panel/electrical system design for my RV-8. Also, this will be
>used to show the FAA DAR that I know what I'm doing in building an IFR
>capable ship. I have never done this on the job, so I'm trying to teach
>myself. So far, I have pages of statements followed by bullets, which is
>cumbersome, requiring a ton of reading to get to the point. I would
>prefer a graphical format, but I'm not creative enough to design one. Has
>one of you gone thru with something similar, and if so, would you be
>willing to share how your analysis looks with this beginner?
It's easy . . . and usually doesn't take a lot
of paperwork, just some consideration of how
a system works, how much you depend on the system
for comfortable completion of flight and how
you might alter the design or operation of your
airplane to mitigate tense situations. See:
http://216.55.140.222/articles/FMEA.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob:
>
>Sometime ago you recommended the MFJ-259B SWR analyzer, but according
>the specifications (1.8 to 170 MHZ) it does not cover GPS frequencies.
>What do you suggest?
buy and install good antennas. I've never had an occasion
to wish I could check the characteristics of a Ghz scale
antenna like Xponder and/or GPS . . . usually, if they're
not damaged, they're working fine. For example, if you
whack the transponder antenna while scrubbing guckum off
the airplane's belly and break it off, it's a fair bet
you need a new one. If it's clean, and mechanically secure,
it's unlikely to be the root cause of any system problems.
Of course, there are still feedlines which can be gross-
tested for opens and shorts with an ohmmeter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY all-electric AOA |
I am working on one.
To cut the development time I bought a kit of a vu meter from one of the
surplus companies. They sell it for audio amplifiers. The kit was
provided with a logaritmic driver chip (I think it was LM3915) which I
replaced with a linear version (LM3914 ?).I replaced the sensitivity
control resistor in the vu meter with a short to get maximum
sensitivity. The input voltage to get full range is now a little over
one volt. I replaced the current control resistor with a photoresistor
to get automatic brightness control. That took some time. All the
photoresistors I had were of a too small resistance and they pumped too
much current into LEDs producing too much brightness. Finally, throwing
away a broken light activated night lamp I found a tiny photoresistor
inside, and that one works ok. A bigg problem was to find a set of
different color LEDs that would produce similar brightness. Turns out
that it is difficult to get yellow LEDs with brightness matching very
bright greens and reds. I also added an operational amplifier forming
noninverting amplifier with adjustable gain, just in case if I needed
more sensitivity. Probably it will not be needed, but it would be a big
project later, and it was easy to make now.
Anyway, I have a display which will display whatever input voltage.
Initially, I plan to install a vane on a small low friction
potentiometer and attach it somewhere to the wing tip or to the main
gear fairing. That seems to be simpler to get working.
I have a differential pressure sensor, 0-5" water max differential
pressure range, with max common mode pressure of 10 psi. It requires 5V
supply and at full differential pressure of 5" of water it makes ~4V
output. It is Ares series model GA100-005WD. I think they are made by
Schaevitz Sensors. My plan is to install it after I get the plane
flying. But I am sure that it will take some time to find proper probe
positions to get it working right.
I finished with the electronics which for sure will require some
adjustments, but my plane doesn't fly yet, so who knows how and if it
will work.
Jerzy
Sigma Eta Aero wrote:
>
>
>Anybody know of a schematic for an all electric angle of attack indicator that
uses pressure transducers in the wing to drive a simple colored bar graph?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Joa
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light dimmer instruction question. |
>
>I have a question on the instructions for the Aero Electric 1.5 AMP Light
>dimmer. In the instructions there is a note that says (There are to
>variations of
>the dimmer assembly that use different pin numbers appropriate to the
>revision level of your dimmer) What dose this mean? I see the two ways to
>hook up the
>pins but don't now what one to use or what the revision level is or means.
>Thanks for any help.
If you bought your dimmer recently, it's the later "A" revision.
Also, if they're marking them as I suggested, the part number
on the heatsink should be DIM15-14A . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Ground Bus |
>
>Bob,
>
>I have your AeroConnection Book and monitor this list. Lots of great info
>from both sources... However, I still am a bit confused about how to
>mount the Ground Bus to a metal firewall in an all metal airplane (RV-7A).
>
>Does the ground bus mount DIRECTLY to the firewall or is it mounted on
>stand-offs? If it is mounted directly to the firewall, how is running all
>the ground wires to local ground connections any different than going to
>the Ground Bus? I must be missing something simple here.
It mounts right on the firewall. Check out the chapter on noise
and in particular, "ground loops". It's important that all panel
and/or engine compartment stuff come to the single point ground
on firewall. Remove any jumpers that might exist across engine
mount isolators. Ground crankcase to firewall bus stud with
beefy jumper strap. Take battery (-) to ground stud on firewall.
There are a few non-victim/non-antagonist components that
can ground locally. Lamps in wings and tail, pitot heat, & strobe
power supply.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
"RV-List Digest Server"
| Subject: | AVG / Grisoft antivirus |
NOT RV RELATED
I'm posting this to the list since I'm aware that many listers use this antivirus
software.
I've been using their free offering for a while now - in fact since turned on to
it by another lister. In the last week I've been making some changes with my
ISP and some server problems have arisen.
I am now unable to receive my scheduled updates and after a complete reinstall
on one computer I cannot get a response from AVG to the request for a password
to activate the new installation.
I would be very grateful if anyone can help me figure out if there is a problem
with AVG or my ISP's server.
I really would like to be able to continue using this program but since there is
no reply to the activation code request I'm wondering if they have discontinued
the free antivirus service.
Any help appreciated.
Fly safe
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery on Engine side of firewall |
>
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>The RV 7 and 9 crowds (with new recomendations to the 6 guys) are putting
>their batteries (Odyssey)forward of the firewall according to the firewall
>forward info I'm now getting from Vans with the firewall forward kit.
>
>Are there compelling reasons NOT to do this?
>
>I can think of heat....! Maybe those batteries are immune!?
>
>I'm not too far past this point - is it time to go back and make this so?
>
>Thanks,
>Ralph Capen
>Already put my grounding block where this new battery box is supposed to
>go......
What reasons were given for the latest recommendations?
Batteries have lived happily under the cowl, under seats, and back
behind seats on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for over
60 years. There's no compelling environmental reason for selecting
one over the other. Most batteries are positioned to satisfy
space and/or weight and balance considerations. If you're happy
with where your battery is now, I wouldn't change it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Signs of alt starting to fail |
Is there any way to tell if your alternator is on its last leg? What are
the signs?
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AVG / Grisoft antivirus |
>
>NOT RV RELATED
>I'm posting this to the list since I'm aware that many listers use this
>antivirus software.
>I've been using their free offering for a while now - in fact since turned
>on to it by another lister. In the last week I've been making some
>changes with my ISP and some server problems have arisen.
>I am now unable to receive my scheduled updates and after a complete
>reinstall on one computer I cannot get a response from AVG to the request
>for a password to activate the new installation.
>I would be very grateful if anyone can help me figure out if there is a
>problem with AVG or my ISP's server.
>I really would like to be able to continue using this program but since
>there is no reply to the activation code request I'm wondering if they
>have discontinued the free antivirus service.
>Any help appreciated.
We've used AVG here for years with excellent service. I
checked the orders server this morning and it had automatically
downloaded the latest update for the free version but the
computer on my desk had not. I did a manual download but
it was exceedingly slow . . . they usually take about 10
seconds, this one took several minutes. I suspect there
is a bottleneck in their connection somewhere.
If you're trying to install the free version, try
6-XFREE-522613-AVG for a serial number.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <George_Bass_0(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVG / Grisoft antivirus |
Rob;
I have no idea why you are experiencing the
problem you stated, with the AVG folks, but,
I can tell you that I had a similar problem a
few days ago (maybe a wek now) with my
copy of their anti-virus software.
For some unknown reason, I was unable to
do an update to the version/copy that I had on
my system (tried several methods). Finally,
I just did a COMPLETE un-install, re-booted
the machine and went to the AVG site again &
downloaded another copy, as a new user, and
it has been working fine ever since.
Sometimes these things seem to have a mind of
their own and I would be very rich if I could
come up with a method/device to analize one.
Good luck with your efforts, as I don't know
of any other software that is as good/any better
than AVG for protection.
George
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Check these out--
http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aerojava/PSSI.htm
Then search Google (Whenever someone asks for info I shrug and say "Google", I
wish they had named it something powerful and elegant-sounding, because we're
probably going to wind up worshipping it!")
Then consider that maybe the pressure type is not the best type. A small flying
horizontal vane on the tail would work. As would two strain gauges on your pitot
tube. A million way to do this job if you want to build your own. .
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jimk36(at)comcast.net> |
Bob--
Re metal airframe, tractor engine, battery in aft fuselage -- do you recommend
ground wire from battery to firewall ground? In addition to grounding to airframe
at the battery location? Or not needed?
Sorry to bother you with such a basic [read dumb] question but it wasn't clear
to me in the "Connection".
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
>
>Type into Google "free fault tree analysis" and see what happens.
>
>Eric
A "failure analysis" or as cited in my writings "failure mode
effects analysis" (FMEA) is much different than a fault tree
analysis. The later is used to guestimate the probability
of any particular system becoming unusable due to failure
of an associated component or sub-system. Those-who-would-
protect-us-from-ourselves are fond of this tool for deciding
whether or not some proposed system will be blessed for use
in flight-for-hire aircraft . . .
The goal of this tool is to help drive a system design down to
less than 1 failure per million flight hours. Not easy,
always difficult, and not particularly exact.
FMEA is different. Here we can sort airframe components
into two categories . . . necessary and convenient for
comfortable completion of flight. When a component falls
into the "necessary" category, what's required to make sure
the services of this system and/or its backup are available?
The basic reliability assumption we're making here is
the probability of DUAL failure of primary and backup
systems in any single three-hour flight is exceedingly
low . . .
Beyond that, system configuration by FMEA is more of
a design and operating philosophy exercise where
as fault tree analysis is an analytical approach
to reliability prediction. I much prefer the latter
because it makes us think in terms of failure tolerance
as opposed to failure proofing . . .
I'll suggest FMEA is much preferred for our purposes
because it is so easy to understand and depends
on perfectly ordinary logic and makes good
use of inexpensive components.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | LED position lights |
While sitting at the local FSDO, and looking through a few mags, there was
an advertisement for Whelen. Apparently they now sell position and
anti-collision LED lights that have been TSO'd.
Bob
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Ground |
>
>Bob--
>
>Re metal airframe, tractor engine, battery in aft fuselage -- do you
>recommend ground wire from battery to firewall ground? In addition to
>grounding to airframe at the battery location? Or not needed?
>
>Sorry to bother you with such a basic [read dumb] question but it wasn't
>clear to me in the "Connection".
If it were my airplane, I'd avoid using any
structure for electrical conductivity aside from
the few components I've cited recently. Obviously,
this argues with apparently successful machines that
ground engines through the mounts and tie system
grounds to what ever structure is handiest . . .
Your system will not refuse to function if you
choose the traditional route.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Signs of alt starting to fail |
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Is there any way to tell if your alternator is on its last leg? What are
>the signs?
Do you have a doubtful alternator? Progressive failures
tend to be wear-out issues. Bearings getting noisy, brushes
worn so that voltage regulator is having trouble keeping
output steady . . . failure beyond these two issues
tend to be catastrophic . . . something breaks rendering
the alternator crippled or inoperative.
A balanced ND alternator should run to TBO on your
engine with no more effort than to keep a good belt
on it and properly tensioned.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: Ground block location |
Fwd'g this nice reply from Paul Bessing on the RV-list to Aeroelectric
list - WHigg 1170 had asked a few days ago.
(Very nice Website, Paul Besing!! Can you e-mail me off-list how you "do"
that website? Special software? Lots of work?! )
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: RV-List: Ground block location
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing"
>
> Here is a picture of mine. Worked fine here.
>
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/wiring.htm
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
> To: "RV-list"
> Subject: RV-List: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Ground block location
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> >
> > Fwd'd from Aeroelectric List for RV-specific response.
> >
> > DC
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground block location
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location.
I
> > don't
> > > >have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the
> > cabin
> > > >side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in
> the
> > > >way and
> > > >also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit.
> > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >Bill
> > > >RV-6
> > >
> > > Can any RV builders help Bill out with this?
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "willfly" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Signs of alt starting to fail |
Bob you raise and interesting question. How does one properly tension the alternator
belt.
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
Bob's reply:
We've used AVG here for years with excellent service. I
checked the orders server this morning and it had automatically
downloaded the latest update for the free version but the
computer on my desk had not. I did a manual download but
it was exceedingly slow . . . they usually take about 10
seconds, this one took several minutes. I suspect there
is a bottleneck in their connection somewhere.
If you're trying to install the free version, try
6-XFREE-522613-AVG for a serial number.
Bob . . .
You've done it again, Bob! I'm truly amazed at your facility to answer even somewhat
off target questions with detailed and accurate information. The password
was a different matter. This showed the update screen and then stalled. I suspect
security issues at my ISP so I'll call them next.
Many thanks indeed to Bob and George Bass for their help.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AV-10 Engine Monitor Support |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
For AV-10 users, current contact details for AV-10 support:
Peter Rummell
9 Merredin Plc.,
Toronto
M3B 1S7
Canada
Ph. 416 446 0126
Thanks everyone for your help. Thanks to a list subscriber and Berkut builder/pilot
in Detroit I was able to locate Peter. He has been between homes, living
in a hotel for a few weeks with his young family and is almost back up and running
again. Peter has offered to repair the unit for no charge.
Regards
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: I-Blackler, Wayne R
canard-aviators(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AV-10 failure...
Hi all,
I have an AV-10 Engine Monitor installed in my Long EZ. The unit failed
totally in August (prior to first flight) and I have been unable to
contact Peter Rummell (AV-10 engineer) for support/repair. Peter had
been supplying solid support via email for my installation in June /
July '03. This has delayed my first flight. I know a number of you are
running these units. I could really use a current phone number or any
other contact information if you have it.
I have tried the following contact details:
AFA
Peter Rummell
60 Penn Ave,
Toronto, Ontario, M2L 1N1
Canada
40 McNab Blvd
Scarborough, Ontario, M1M 2W5
Canada
EMAIL:
afatechsupport(at)rogers.com
lindaryall(at)rogers.com
wedgie(at)interlog.com
Phone numbers:
416 264 0968 (what I thought was current)
416 593 9990
426 264 5134 (old)
1800 737 9185 (old)
416 698 6928 (old)
Many thanks,
Regards
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, USA
(253) 520 0447 (AH)
(253) 773 9829 (BH)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Signs of alternator starting to fail |
> List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@??????.com>
>
> Is there any way to tell if your alternator is on its last leg?
> What are the signs?
Stator: Failure in Stator rectifiers. I have had diodes in the
stator rectifier fail open-circuit, meaning that the alternator
delivers only one-of-three or two-of-three phases. This causes a
reduction of max potential output current, so that the
alternator may not be able to carry the normal load.
The charging system still sort-of-appears-to-work, making
diagnosis difficult. If you monitor bus voltage with an
accurate dc voltmeter measured with engine running > 1500rpm,
most of the loads switched off (light load), then the bus
voltage would be normal (14.2-14.5V). The Voltage Regulator (VR)
is still doing its job by chopping the field current down to a
duty cycle of 5-50%. A +- ampmeter would show no net charge or
discharge in the steady state (proper indication).
If you turn on all of the loads (especially landing/taxi/nav
lights), then the bus voltage will sag due to the inablility of
the alternator to supply these loads. Under these conditions,
the bus voltage may sag to 12.6-13.5V, and the ammeter would
show a net discharge from the battery in the steady state. The
VR is likely doing its job by applying full (100%, unchopped)
field to the rotor, but with one third to two thirds of
the stator gone, the alternator cant keep up with the load...
Eventually, the battery will be chronically undercharged,
leading to cranking problems, especially in cold weather.
There is also a marked increase in bus ripple. If you normally
hear a (hopefully faint if you did your audio grounds right)
alternator whine in your headphone audio, then after the
stator/diode failure, the whine gets a lot louder, and lower
pitched.
Most stator failures are caused when the soldered electrical
connection between the stator wire and the diode stack comes
apart due to heat/vibration. Sometimes this is the only
problem, and can quite easily be repaired, but this requires
total disassembly of the alternator. You have to use a "hard
solder" to repair these connections (not Pb/Sn electronic
solder).
Rotor: The brushes can wear down to where they no longer "ride"
on the rotor slip rings. As they approach the wear limits, the
contact pressure between the brush and the slip ring is
insufficient to keep the slip ring clean, meaning that the brush
contact to the slip ring gets intermittent and electrically
"noisy". This reduces the available field current.
This manifests as "reduced max output current", with similar
behavior of the dc voltmeter and ammeter when all of the loads
are switched on. The noise in the headsets may sound different,
however. As before, this is not the VRs fault. It will probably
still try to do its job of keeping the bus voltage at 14.25V by
applying 100% field duty cycle, but the high resistance of the
brushes against the slip rings prevents the alternator from
developing much field current, thereby reducing output. This can
also manifest as the "pulsating ammeter syndrome", along with
unnaturlly high resistance in the external field wiring...
The alternator whine in headset audio will sound less musical,
more like hash (bacon sizzling). If you have an ADF or AM
radio, tune to the low end of the band (200Khz or 540Khz,
respectively) and you might hear the alternator hash. If you do
remember to this before you have alternator problems, the
increase in direct audio and/or ADF/AM radio RF noise as the
brushes wear down can give you a clue as to what is going on.
I have seen Lorans quit as the RF hash from the alternator
increases over time and finally overwhelms the Loran signals at
100KHz.
The fix is disassembly of the alternator, installing new
brushes, cleaning or possibly turning the rotor slip rings on a
lathe. This is part of a normal alternator overhaul done by
overhaul shops.
Mechanical: As bearings wear, the sideways pull of the belt can
cause the rotor to hit the stator pole piece causing
catastrophic failure and total destruction. Bearings are
normally replaced during overhaul. At annual, remove the belt,
and see how much play is in the bearings.
One Polack to another...
Mike Mladejovsky, Phd
Dr Alternator
Skylane '1MM
Pacer '00Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob's reply:
> We've used AVG here for years with excellent service. I
> checked the orders server this morning and it had automatically
> downloaded the latest update for the free version but the
> computer on my desk had not. I did a manual download but
> it was exceedingly slow . . . they usually take about 10
> seconds, this one took several minutes. I suspect there
> is a bottleneck in their connection somewhere.
> If you're trying to install the free version, try
> 6-XFREE-522613-AVG for a serial number.
> Bob . . .
>
>You've done it again, Bob! I'm truly amazed at your facility to answer
>even somewhat off target questions with detailed and accurate
>information. The password worked and I was able to complete the
>the update screen and then stalled. I suspect security issues at my ISP
>so I'll call them next.
>Many thanks indeed to Bob and George Bass for their help.
that seems unlikely. like all servers that offer popular
free services, it's probable that they (or the 'net between
you and the server) is really busy certain times of day.
I use the auto-update feature of AVG to get the updates
at 3 a.m. local. My computers run 24 hours a day so this
works really nice and keeps us up to date with a minimum
of hassles.
I just tried a download from their site and it was still
very slow. I think the problem resides someplace outside
your system or isp.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Question on Z-14 |
Bob,
I am currently wiring an RV-7 in accordance with Z-14.
I realize that you would normally operate with the busses un-tied thereby isolating
two separate electrical systems. But let's say we close the cross-feed contactor
in flight with both alternators and both batteries operating normally.
Would it be prudent to set the voltage regulator for the 40-amp alternator
slightly higher than the 20-amp alternator thus assuring that the larger alternator
hogs the load? I really can't think of a situation when you would do this,
so maybe this is just academic.
What say you, o great one?
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Used electric gyros |
| From: | "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)Smartm.com> |
"RV: Aeroelectric List (E-mail)"
LIsters
I am building my panel all electric and have been in search of used gyros. They
seem to disappear faster than my cable connection can get the initial message
to me, so I decided to do some research on the instrument repair scene. I called
The Gyro House and Kelly Instruments and in both cases spoke the the person
in charge. Here's what I've learned.
Do not buy non tso'd instruments like Falcon and UMA if you expect long life and
want to be safe in IFR ops. Most non-tso's instruments and gyros cannot be
repaired. Neither house will repair Falcon gyros. We have heard reports of Falcon
gyros drawing excessive current as well as mechanical noise on the aeroelectric
list. Also, I was shocked to learn that RC Allen, in the past, also manufactured
gyros that are not repairable, as key parts were bonded in place instead
of screwed! The way to tell that is to ask the seller the model number.
ONly buy model numbers 26BK or 26AK, all others are not deemed good model numbers
to overhaul.
Cost: overhauling a vacuum gyro is anywhere from $200-$450 depending on the repair
station and condition of the instrument. Overhauling an electric gyro is
$600-$800 with the same caveats. That being said, it begs the question of how
much is a used electric gyro worth? I was shocked at the answer, based on the
prices most guys are routinely getting for used on the internet ($900-$1200).
Gyro houses, if they buy 'cores' will not pay more than $300 for a core electric
gyro. According to Sigma Tek and RC Allen, if the gyro has, at any time
in it's life sat dormant for 90 days without spool up, even if it sat in it's
box, it is a core. Even if it runs in the present, it will fail in the future.
So, if you buy a used electric gyro for, say $1000, and it needs an overhaul?
You're out $1600-$1800 already, may as well buy a new one with a warranty.
Also, if the seller is unsure if the gyro is an 8 degree tilt, do not buy,
as the RV-8 requires an 8 degree tilt and to change it requires a complete teardown
( overhaul, again for $600-$800)
So, what I've learned today is that a used gyro is not necessarily a great deal
unless:
1) It's an RC Allen 26BK or 26AK; and:
2) I personally know the seller to be fastidious in his/her running the gyro regularly
(preferably daily); and:
3) It's also an 8 degree tilt: and:
4) The price for acquisition plus overhaul is under the new price by a few hundred.
Or
4) I can get it for $300
Oh, one more thing, I asked both repair proprietors that if their life had to depend
on it, which gyro would they prefer to fly behind? Their answer: SigmaTek
or REA Vacuum, hands down. Why? They are looking thru the glasses of repairmen.
To them, vacuum gyros are a simpler assembly, and they see few vacuum
gyros returned for repair prematurely as compared to electric. Me? I'm still
going all-electric with an EFIS as primary and a TSO'd AI for backup, which based
on the above, will be new.
Arthur J. Treff
N666AT (reserved)
Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Used Electric Gyros |
>According to Sigma Tek and RC Allen, if the gyro has, at any time
>in it's life sat dormant for 90 days without spool up, even if it >sat in
it's box, it is a core. Even if it runs in the present, it
>will fail in the future.
Does this statement apply to turn coordinators as well as AIs and DGs?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Used electric gyros |
If you want to put in a vacuum system (and I don't know why anyone would, but
to each their own), buy Sigma Tec and fly happily ever after.
Randy F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
>
> LIsters
>
> I am building my panel all electric and have been in search of used gyros. They
> seem to disappear faster than my cable connection can get the initial message
to
> me, so I decided to do some research on the instrument repair scene. I called
> The Gyro House and Kelly Instruments and in both cases spoke the the person in
> charge. Here's what I've learned.
>
> Do not buy non tso'd instruments like Falcon and UMA if you expect long life
and
> want to be safe in IFR ops. Most non-tso's instruments and gyros cannot be
> repaired. Neither house will repair Falcon gyros. We have heard reports of
> Falcon gyros drawing excessive current as well as mechanical noise on the
> aeroelectric list. Also, I was shocked to learn that RC Allen, in the past,
> also manufactured gyros that are not repairable, as key parts were bonded in
> place instead of screwed! The way to tell that is to ask the seller the model
> number. ONly buy model numbers 26BK or 26AK, all others are not deemed good
> model numbers to overhaul.
>
> Cost: overhauling a vacuum gyro is anywhere from $200-$450 depending on the
> repair station and condition of the instrument. Overhauling an electric gyro
is
> $600-$800 with the same caveats. That being said, it begs the question of how
> much is a used electric gyro worth? I was shocked at the answer, based on the
> prices most guys are routinely getting for used on the internet ($900-$1200).
> Gyro houses, if they buy 'cores' will not pay more than $300 for a core electric
> gyro. According to Sigma Tek and RC Allen, if the gyro has, at any time in it's
> life sat dormant for 90 days without spool up, even if it sat in it's box, it
is
> a core. Even if it runs in the present, it will fail in the future. So, if
you
> buy a used electric gyro for, say $1000, and it needs an overhaul? You're out
> $1600-$1800 already, may as well buy a new one with a warranty. Also, if the
> seller is unsure if the gyro is an 8 degree tilt, do not buy, as the RV-8
> requires an 8 degree tilt and to change !
> it requires a complete teardown ( overhaul, again for $600-$800)
>
> So, what I've learned today is that a used gyro is not necessarily a great deal
> unless:
>
> 1) It's an RC Allen 26BK or 26AK; and:
> 2) I personally know the seller to be fastidious in his/her running the gyro
> regularly (preferably daily); and:
> 3) It's also an 8 degree tilt: and:
> 4) The price for acquisition plus overhaul is under the new price by a few
> hundred.
>
> Or
>
> 4) I can get it for $300
>
> Oh, one more thing, I asked both repair proprietors that if their life had to
> depend on it, which gyro would they prefer to fly behind? Their answer:
> SigmaTek or REA Vacuum, hands down. Why? They are looking thru the glasses
of
> repairmen. To them, vacuum gyros are a simpler assembly, and they see few
> vacuum gyros returned for repair prematurely as compared to electric. Me? I'm
> still going all-electric with an EFIS as primary and a TSO'd AI for backup,
> which based on the above, will be new.
>
> Arthur J. Treff
> N666AT (reserved)
> Wiring
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
09/19/2003 11:19:44 AM
What mah 12 v battery would I need to run just a iPaq PDA and it's
attatched GPS receiver for say 5 hours.
I don't know current draw figures.
Anybody else figured all this out yet?
Size and weight is a major concern.
Thanks,
Terry
Long EZ
Ohio
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
Ok, maybe I'm being too simple but isn't there a simple non-detented rotary switch
(or similar) that has like 10 positions on it and that could just be wired
directly to a 10 LED bargraph so that you have a direct readout of the vane position
(you may have to do a gear reduction on the switch)? Basically just a
panel mounted direct indication of what the vane is doing? You could then wire
a warning horn/light to one or more of these LEDs so that whenever it (or the
light above it) lit up the warning would come on. I would be inclined to have
one for best glide (steady green) and then a steady amber for approaching
stall (maybe a beeping horn) and then a flashing red and a solid horn for stall.
These three lights would be mounted up high and to the left and the small
row of 10 LEDs would be mounted somewhere else and used for reference only.
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
>Ok, maybe I'm being too simple but isn't there a simple non-detented rotary
switch
>(or similar) that has like 10 positions on it and that could just be wired
>directly to a 10 LED bargraph so that you have a direct readout of the vane
position
A low turning force potentiometer like Clarostat Model HRS100 Hall Effect
Position Sensor.
hooked up to a MAC indicator or roll you own with an LM3914 and a few leds.
>or approaching stall (maybe a beeping horn)
Or maybe a stick shaker available from MPJA (Okay a pager motor) for .99.
>and then a flashing red and a solid horn for stall.
I say --Go for it!
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Battery Size and Repost "Start Me Up" |
I apologize for reposting this, but I think it is important. My notion is
that this technology would be extremely useful as an emergency power supply.
The Polapulse battery is truly remarkable--one of the last Polaroid
miracles. They can sit around for over 5 years and still kick it.----
While grabbing some epoxy at the local auto store I ran across "Start Me
Up". This is an little
device the size of a couple packs of playing cards with a cigarette lighter
connector. With a dead battery, one plugs this into the connector and five
minutes later--vroom. (One presumes). See one here--www.startmeup.com and
many other places if you do a google search.
The device is 36 volts and one-time use and weighs very little. It costs
about $25 so they wind up on the discount racks after a while for $10.
Lifetime is better than five years so this is a real deal.
How this thing works: The insides contain a 6-stack of 6V Polapulse
batteries, and (probably) no current limiting. With a dead battery, this
thing will bring up the charge level to the point where the engine will
start in a few minutes. Then the battery pack is dead.
See: www.polaroid-oem.com/pdf/batteries.pdf
This might be very nice as an emergency backup device. I would certainly
consider it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Collins <philc1(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Output Protection |
I have a Long-ez project with an IO-360 engine and I am installing an electrical
system I sketched out a few years ago with help from the 'connection. I have
a Sky-tec Starter with an integrated solenoid. The way I have it drawn I have
the battery relay connected to the starter solenoid with a #2 wire and the
alternator output (B+?) connected to the starter solenoid with a #4 wire and an
inline fuse or breaker. I understand that there has been some less than positive
field experience with setups like this due to difficulty finding a fuse
or breaker that held up well in the harsh heat/vibration environment on the aft
end of a pusher engine.
My next question is what about a fusible link? Could I use a #6 or #8 section
of fusible link to bridge the 9-inch space between the starter solenoid and the
alternator. Would that create its own problem in a failure mode by allowing
the remaining fragment of fusible link still connected to the starter (hence
directly to batt+) to short directly to ground?
Any experience the group can share would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil Collins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AVG
>
>Bob's reply:
> We've used AVG here for years with excellent service. I
> checked the orders server this morning and it had automatically
> downloaded the latest update for the free version but the
> computer on my desk had not. I did a manual download but
> it was exceedingly slow . . . they usually take about 10
> seconds, this one took several minutes. I suspect there
> is a bottleneck in their connection somewhere.
> If you're trying to install the free version, try
> 6-XFREE-522613-AVG for a serial number.
> Bob . . .
>
>You've done it again, Bob! I'm truly amazed at your facility to answer
>even somewhat off target questions with detailed and accurate
>information. The password worked and I was able to complete the
>the update screen and then stalled. I suspect security issues at my ISP
>so I'll call them next.
>Many thanks indeed to Bob and George Bass for their help.
that seems unlikely. like all servers that offer popular
free services, it's probable that they (or the 'net between
you and the server) is really busy certain times of day.
I use the auto-update feature of AVG to get the updates
at 3 a.m. local. My computers run 24 hours a day so this
works really nice and keeps us up to date with a minimum
of hassles.
I just tried a download from their site and it was still
very slow. I think the problem resides someplace outside
your system or isp.
Bob . . .
Once again you're correct Bob. Shortly after sending the email yesterday I tried
an update again, this time successfully. It seems they may have resolved their
problems. Hope so.
Thanks again for the help.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Output Protection |
>
>
>I have a Long-ez project with an IO-360 engine and I am installing an
>electrical system I sketched out a few years ago with help from the
>'connection. I have a Sky-tec Starter with an integrated solenoid. The
>way I have it drawn I have the battery relay connected to the starter
>solenoid with a #2 wire and the alternator output (B+?) connected to the
>starter solenoid with a #4 wire and an inline fuse or breaker. I
>understand that there has been some less than positive field experience
>with setups like this due to difficulty finding a fuse or breaker that
>held up well in the harsh heat/vibration environment on the aft end of a
>pusher engine.
The ANL series current limiters will do fine
>My next question is what about a fusible link? Could I use a #6 or #8
>section of fusible link to bridge the 9-inch space between the starter
>solenoid and the alternator. Would that create its own problem in a
>failure mode by allowing the remaining fragment of fusible link still
>connected to the starter (hence directly to batt+) to short directly to ground?
This is pretty large for a "fusible link" . . . I'm reluctant
to recommend this on an airplane. If it were my airplane,
I'd use the ANL . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: LED position lights |
| From: | Michael Crowder <mhcrowder(at)netzero.net> |
Here is more information...
http://www.whelen.com/pdfs/11283.pdf
http://www.whelen.com/pdfs/install/13777.pdf
just like the tail light, they are 28V units.
--Michael
Sonex #293
>> While sitting at the local FSDO, and looking through a few mags, there was
>> an advertisement for Whelen. Apparently they now sell position and
>> anti-collision LED lights that have been TSO'd.
>>
>> Bob
The best thing to hit the internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
This little bugger looks about perfect for the job and seems to be priced pretty
well. Since output is a function of input wouldn't you have to supply a regulated
and constant 5.0VDC to it and if so what is the easiest way to accomplish
this?
Joa
*************************************************************************"
A low turning force potentiometer like Clarostat Model HRS100 Hall Effect
Position Sensor.
hooked up to a MAC indicator or roll you own with an LM3914 and a few leds.
********************************************************************************
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
>This little bugger looks about perfect for the job and seems to be priced
pretty
>well. Since output is a function of input wouldn't you have to supply a
regulated
>and constant 5.0VDC to it and if so what is the easiest way to accomplish
>this?
>Joa
Plan on using the stock part HRS100SSAB90. You should be able to get one
from www.potentiometers.com
The part is ratiometric, which means it puts out 4.8V at some angle with
5.0Vcc input. But if the input sags to 90% of what it was, then the output
is 90% of what it was. A designer can use this fact to allow the use of no V
regulators.
Buy Forrest Mims' engineers notebook at Rad Shac for almost all the details
you need. Remember that an AOA is NOT a wind-angle indicator, but a
reserve-lift indicator. So bury a little weight in the tail of your wind
vane.
Your Mileage May Vary...........
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less
obvious
as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in
the
universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute
continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Yabergs4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Dimming of UMA EL Light Strip |
I am running a solid state dimming system sold through B&C, and have hooked
up a UMA EL light strip. The instructions indicate to dim the primary current
(14V) before the converter (switching DC to AC power). Everything works
properly, but the EL strip does not dim at the same rate as the panel lights and
is
to bright while the panel is to dim.
Does anybody have a simple fix, my thinking is to put some kind of
resister in front of the converter to "pre dim" the strip, which is being use to
cast a low glow on my toggle switches.
If that is not an option does any body know of a stand alone rheostat that is
made for small applications unlike the one sold by spruce.
Thanks for any advise, Tom Yaberg (an Electronic novice)....... Camarillo,
CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: LED position lights. |
The Whelen 70875 position lights are really cool---From the photos of the
part here is what I can tell (my guess). Thanks Whelen for taking the
plunge.
Diagnosis--The LEDs are likely to be seven pieces of LXHL-PM02 Luxeon
Emitter V Green Lambertian 120 lumens 150 degrees 6.84V and 700 mA or their
red equivalent. Whelen says if one LED is out it must be replaced, so they
are out on the spec-edge.
Now for the arrangement. They run this thing only at 28V and 0.35 Amps (
10W ). Since the published current (350 mA) is less than the current of a
single led (700 mA), they must boost the voltage to 56V (!). This may be a
forward-looking design for the coming 42.2V cars and 56V aircraft...I don't
know.) So they run 7 lamps in series. Wild....Is there something I'm missing
here??????
Now for the photometry. How do they get the 2 candelas pointing up and down.
Is this scattered from the polycarb? Whelen may have tweaked custom molded
methacrylate aspheres to cover this area.
Price: Someone will post it later (I write this Saturday evening). Rob
Housman reported that Whelan charges $428.95 for their LED tail light. The
Luxeons Emitter V's cost retail $40 each or $280 for the set and maybe $150
for the other parts. That's $430 just for parts (!) Add your own profit
margin but my guess is Whelen struggled to price it just under a Federal
Reserve Note with a picture of Grover Cleveland on it. EACH.
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice
there is.
--Yogi Berra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
I have been reading this thread and unfortunately the force to accurately
measure near stall airspeed for example 40MPH to a relative airflow accuracy
of 2 deg requires a pot with a friction force perhaps 100 times less than
the suggested pot. What is needed is a servo mount ballbearing shaft style
pot. Conventional pots simply will not work with a reasonable sized vane
setup. The torque required is way too high and this results in a huge
deadband (ERROR).
The vane needs to be designed carefully and slightly forward balanced to
avoid flutter. The vane wing design is tricky as well to avoid slight
flutter or hunting.
I have designed both servopot and air pressure AOA setups with both simple
(NSC chip bar dislpay) and complex electronics (PIC micro with audio
warnings etc) including auto dimming of the display. Both designs have been
flight tested. HP makes super bright wide angle leds in several colors that
are truely wide and full sun readable and easily dimmed to night use.
A simple design will be put in public domain some time early next year. No
details available at present.
However, remember you are looking at an active angle range under 20 deg
(full stall to max airspeed) and need <0.1 oz in torque max even at 40 MPH.
The subject pot is around 2.0 and its better if the torque is around 0.01 or
less. Shielded pots are available but so far I cannot find any sealed pots
with low torque. All must be ball bearing to even be close to being
suitable.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AOA
>
>
>
> >This little bugger looks about perfect for the job and seems to be priced
> pretty
> >well. Since output is a function of input wouldn't you have to supply a
> regulated
> >and constant 5.0VDC to it and if so what is the easiest way to accomplish
> >this?
>
> >Joa
>
> Plan on using the stock part HRS100SSAB90. You should be able to get one
> from www.potentiometers.com
>
> The part is ratiometric, which means it puts out 4.8V at some angle with
> 5.0Vcc input. But if the input sags to 90% of what it was, then the output
> is 90% of what it was. A designer can use this fact to allow the use of no
V
> regulators.
>
> Buy Forrest Mims' engineers notebook at Rad Shac for almost all the
details
> you need. Remember that an AOA is NOT a wind-angle indicator, but a
> reserve-lift indicator. So bury a little weight in the tail of your wind
> vane.
>
> Your Mileage May Vary...........
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
> "Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less
> obvious
> as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in
> the
> universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no
absolute
> continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
> - R. Buckminster Fuller
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimming of UMA EL Light Strip |
--- Yabergs4(at)aol.com wrote:
> Everything works
> properly, but the EL strip does not dim at the same rate as the panel
> lights and is
> to bright while the panel is to dim.
I would try using a separate dimmer (rheostat only) for the UMA
inverter. UMA has one available it is part number 1G01. I think any
correctly sized rheostat would suffice.
Good luck,
Mike Salzman
Lancair ES
Fairfield, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | LED position lights |
Eric, all:
You're close. The emitters appear to be the 1W Luxeon Star-O in a custom heat
sink/circuit board.
These units run at 350mA and 4.0V worst case ( about 3.3V for red ), so 7 of them
in series just
fit in a 28V system. No 28-to-56V step-up unit required. The Star-O, because
of its optics,
can put out a really bright beam - over 180 candela.
If you check out the FAA Advisory Circular 20-74, you will see that position lights
radiate most of
their energy in a tight beam about 20 degrees wide and 30 degrees high aimed about
10 degrees
outboard of dead ahead.
The spec sez minimum 40 candela from 0 to 10 degrees, 30 candela from 11 to 20
degrees, and 5 candela from
21 to 110 degrees. The vertical beam half-power width is about 30 degrees. Therefore,
the skirts of
a well-focused emitter will probably provide the required sideways brightness.
The 70875 emitters are angled about 10-15 degrees outboard, the approximate center
of a tight beam
meeting regs. Two or three of the emitters may be angled further outboard or up
and down to fill out the
rest of the radiation pattern, but this isn't obvious from the pictures, and in
any case only a few degrees of
skew would be required. It's likely, as you say, that they're using custom PMMA
lensing.
This is Whelen's second version of an LED position light. The prototype was covered
in a trade magazine two years
ago, and used "piranha package" LEDs in a hemispherical armature with reflector
wings - really complicated.
About this time the Luxeon Stars came out, and Whelen apparently abandoned their
Rube Goldberg arrangment.
I like this design much better.
Price: Star-Os are less than $20 each in unit quantities. I would doubt that there's
more than $120 in parts.
Shaun
>Diagnosis--The LEDs are likely to be seven pieces of LXHL-PM02 Luxeon
>Emitter V Green Lambertian 120 lumens 150 degrees 6.84V and 700 mA or their
>red equivalent.
>Now for the photometry. How do they get the 2 candelas pointing up and down.
>Is this scattered from the polycarb? Whelen may have tweaked custom molded
>methacrylate aspheres to cover this area.
>Price: Someone will post it later (I write this Saturday evening). Rob
>Housman reported that Whelan charges $428.95 for their LED tail light. The
>Luxeons Emitter V's cost retail $40 each or $280 for the set and maybe $150
>for the other parts. That's $430 just for parts (!) Add your own profit
>margin but my guess is Whelen struggled to price it just under a Federal
>Reserve Note with a picture of Grover Cleveland on it. EACH.
>Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting |
Problems
For Some Members...?
Dear Listers,
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While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new
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Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
Bob,
(This is a repeat of a previous inquiry which seems to have been
filtered/dropped/missed. So, as you have instructed, I am re-posting my
question.)
The Z-14 schematic shows a Transient Suppressor tied into the secondary
battery/alternator system. Can you explain what this is and where to go to
buy/build one?
Or, if I have a properly designed electrical system, do I really need a
transient suppressor?
Thank you,
Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
Bob,
What would be required to make a very basic and as simple as possible solid state
voltage regulator that outputs 5V and how much would the voltage fluctuate?
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
Bob,
What would be required to make a very basic and as simple as possible solid state
voltage regulator that outputs 5V and how much would the voltage fluctuate?
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
>
>Bob,
>
>
>What would be required to make a very basic and as simple as possible
>solid state voltage regulator that outputs 5V and how much would the
>voltage fluctuate?
See http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM1084.pdf for
specs on a low cost, later-day 3-terminal regulator.
There's a whole family of these devices. Radio Shack
can probably sell you an MC7805 (276-1770) which has
the following chracteristics:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MC/MC7805.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Question |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>(This is a repeat of a previous inquiry which seems to have been
>filtered/dropped/missed. So, as you have instructed, I am re-posting my
>question.)
you did good . . .
>The Z-14 schematic shows a Transient Suppressor tied into the secondary
>battery/alternator system. Can you explain what this is and where to go to
>buy/build one?
Ignore it.
>Or, if I have a properly designed electrical system, do I really need a
>transient suppressor?
This is correct. That was included at the request of a builder
who was worrying too much and should have been removed before
I published the drawing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Today I placed THE ORDER for 1,445,472 feet Copper Clad Aluminum wire. This
is sufficient to make 5,434 feet of 1/0 CCA cable (and much more of the
smaller stuff). I intend to sell AWG 1/0, AWG 2, and AWG 4. Custom
configurations like Y's, split-offs, embedded control wires, etc. are easy
to do.
The insulation is still in the works, samples coming in a few days. The
insulation should also be far lighter than the usual stuff you can buy. see
the particulars at--
www.periheliondesign.com/fatwiremanual.pdf
Please keep me in mind.
Please.................!
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Question |
Bob,
Thanks, I figured that from reading your past postings, but wanted to be
sure before I deleted it.
As always, your feedback is appreciated.
Thank you,
Mark S.
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >(This is a repeat of a previous inquiry which seems to have been
> >filtered/dropped/missed. So, as you have instructed, I am re-posting my
> >question.)
>
> you did good . . .
>
>
> >The Z-14 schematic shows a Transient Suppressor tied into the secondary
> >battery/alternator system. Can you explain what this is and where to go to
> >buy/build one?
>
> Ignore it.
>
>
> >Or, if I have a properly designed electrical system, do I really need a
> >transient suppressor?
>
> This is correct. That was included at the request of a builder
> who was worrying too much and should have been removed before
> I published the drawing.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 70amp alt 60amp current limiter |
Bob: I just found out that my new cont IO550 has a 70 amp alternator. Am I
still alright with a 60amp current limiter I bought from B&C? Thanks Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
A voltage regulator is not required in the circuit I proposed.
The hall effect rotary position sensor is very cheap and will do the trick,
granted, with the water seal removed, and maybe new bearings (you wouldn't
want to modify ten thousand of these). The torque is not an issue...you go
as low torque as you can, then make the vane big enough to work, then adjust
the weight on the vane until it mimics reality. Make the vane of foam, then
if it blows off it can't hurt the wing. (Black humor here).
If you have nothing else to do please see
www.periheliondesign.com/rubberbands.jpg and please don't write to me or Bob
that it's off-topic.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"I only regret my economies."
Reynolds Price
________________________________________________________________________________
Do I have this right? You're going to take a bazillion strands of tiny
aluminum wire, twist it all together yourself, put your own insulation on it
and sell it as fat cables? Things that make you go hmmmm...
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> -->
>
> Today I placed THE ORDER for 1,445,472 feet Copper Clad
> Aluminum wire. This is sufficient to make 5,434 feet of 1/0
> CCA cable (and much more of the smaller stuff). I intend to
> sell AWG 1/0, AWG 2, and AWG 4. Custom configurations like
> Y's, split-offs, embedded control wires, etc. are easy to do.
>
> The insulation is still in the works, samples coming in a few
> days. The insulation should also be far lighter than the
> usual stuff you can buy. see the particulars at--
>
> www.periheliondesign.com/fatwiremanual.pdf
>
> Please keep me in mind.
> Please.................!
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator |
Thanks for the reply Bob. Would the two capacitors (input and output) shown in
the application schematics for the MC7805 be needed for this? Do you think
this would work with the other hardware to produce a working angle of attack indicator?
What am I missing?
Thanks.
Joa
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
See http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM1084.pdf for
specs on a low cost, later-day 3-terminal regulator.
There's a whole family of these devices. Radio Shack
can probably sell you an MC7805 (276-1770) which has
the following chracteristics:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MC/MC7805.pdf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Piece of Cake....
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator and piece-meal development programs |
>
>Thanks for the reply Bob. Would the two capacitors (input and output)
>shown in the application schematics for the MC7805 be needed for
>this? Do you think this would work with the other hardware to produce a
>working angle of attack indicator? What am I missing?
>
>Thanks.
The capacitors are necessary for legacy devices
like the MC7805, I think most of the newer devices
will perform without them. I generally include them
anyhow for reasons other than regulator performance.
Are you sure you want to tackle an electro-mechanical
AOA system for your first crack at it? If you're getting
you feet wet for the first time in electronic circuit
design, layout, fabrication, troublshooting, calibration
and operation stacked on top of fabricating and proofing
an AOA sensor, -AND- expecting to achieve stability
and accuracy in a flight instrument that will let you skate
up to the edge of the ice with confidence . . . . perhaps
I can suggest ways to mitigate risk.
Check out http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm
The link from the page cited to a drawing for the
probe is broken . . . but I've copied it to my
server here:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/angle_of_attack.jpg
Follow this link to Ebay where you'll find a bunch
of Magnehelic super-sensitive differential pressure
instruments.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&query=magnehelic
If this link doesn't come through the list-server intact,
just go directly to ebay and search on "magnehelic"
The "sweet spot" for calibrating this AOA system is at
about 0.4" H20 . . . so any gage 1" to 5" H20 full scale
would be useful in this application.
Neat thing about this system is that it is non-electric,
with one moving part (instrument pointer). Only
down-side I see is the rather chunky, non-aviation
looking instrument . . . but like one's homely sister
who never has dates but makes straight A's in everything,
there is great value beyond appearances.
I'm paraphrasing remarks credited to Burt Rutan wherein
he noted, "Never test a new engine on a new airframe.
Always bolt a stoggy ol' Lyc to your new winged thing
of beauty, and use something like a C-172 as a test
bed for a new engine. It is best to limit the size, kind
and number of dragons you take flying with you."
See if you can make the probe work with a known
instrumentation technology. If that plays, then do some
fiddling with a low-pressure sensor that might even
drive another analog display of some kind . . .
in parallel with the Magnehelic instrument to bolster
confidence in your design. When your sensor is working
well, go for the whippy bar graph or whatever. When
that's done, lets talk about how to fabricate it in
a manner that provides both mechanical and electrical
robustness such that this new instrument is likely to
still be functional the day your airplane is deemed
un-airworthy and ready to be parted out or scrapped.
This kind of programmed, one-step-at-a-time development
effort will yield superior results while keeping you
out of the icewater when you go skating up to the edge. . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 70amp alt 60amp current limiter |
>
>Bob: I just found out that my new cont IO550 has a 70 amp alternator. Am I
>still alright with a 60amp current limiter I bought from B&C? Thanks Tim
you bet. Take a peek at the specs for the ANL limiters
at http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2024.PDF
It doesn't have a curve for ANL60 but there's one for
ANL50 . . . note that at even 80A from your "cold" alternator,
the ANL50 would hang in there okay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on Z-14 |
>
>Bob,
>
>I am currently wiring an RV-7 in accordance with Z-14.
>
>I realize that you would normally operate with the busses un-tied thereby
>isolating two separate electrical systems. But let's say we close the
>cross-feed contactor in flight with both alternators and both batteries
>operating normally. Would it be prudent to set the voltage regulator for
>the 40-amp alternator slightly higher than the 20-amp alternator thus
>assuring that the larger alternator hogs the load? I really can't think
>of a situation when you would do this, so maybe this is just academic.
Wouldn't hurt to do this but better I think to
have a warning light that comes on when the cross-feed
contactor is closed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
Normally I wouldn't dream of forwarding pictures to this list, but these
are ultra-topical. They're what remain of a 20 amp B&C backup alternator
that was mounted on the vacuum pad of a Lycoming 260 hp IO-540 on a
Berkut. More details as I get them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator and piece-meal development programs |
Yes, good advice. One reason I considered a vane type vs a differential pressure
type is that it would be mounted on the wing right outside my window and a
quick glance outside would "calibrate" the interior electronic reading. Helps
keep that ice nice and thick out there on the edge : )
The other thing is that this really isn't rocket science- just a simple readout
of position with a couple of alarms so I figured it would be less risky than
a more elaborate means of measuring angle of attack.
In any event when I get time I'll probably start playing around on a breadboard
and develop and test the hardware (vane, mounting system, etc) and then be back
asking more questions when the time comes to build a board. I'm sure, as you
say, that there are some really good things I could do to make a nice robust
circuit.
Thanks!
Joa
.
Neat thing about this system is that it is non-electric,
with one moving part (instrument pointer). Only
down-side I see is the rather chunky, non-aviation
looking instrument . . . but like one's homely sister
who never has dates but makes straight A's in everything,
there is great value beyond appearances.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
OK, my bad. They've been forwarded to Matronics photo sharing. They're
about 225k each.
Basically, the nose casting broke clean through, leaving the alt sitting
quietly in the engine compartment.
>
>Normally I wouldn't dream of forwarding pictures to this list, but these
>are ultra-topical. They're what remain of a 20 amp B&C backup alternator
>that was mounted on the vacuum pad of a Lycoming 260 hp IO-540 on a
>Berkut. More details as I get them.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
In a message dated 9/23/03 10:03:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
richard(at)riley.net writes:
> Basically, the nose casting broke clean through, leaving the alt sitting
> quietly in the engine compartment.
>
>
Good Morning Richard,
Since I am not smart enough to find the pictures, could you supply a bit more
detail?
Did the break occur right at the pad, somewhere along the webs or all the way
back where the webs attach to the alternator housing itself?
Were you able to discern any evidence of a pre-existing crack?
That mount looks to be heck for stout!
Amazing that it broke.
Thanks for the warning.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
I'm looking for someplace on the web to stash them - if anyone has a
suggestion, let me know. Preferably someplace that you don't have to join
to access
>
>In a message dated 9/23/03 10:03:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
>richard(at)riley.net writes:
>
> > Basically, the nose casting broke clean through, leaving the alt sitting
> > quietly in the engine compartment.
> >
> >
>
>Good Morning Richard,
>
>Since I am not smart enough to find the pictures, could you supply a bit more
>detail?
>
>Did the break occur right at the pad, somewhere along the webs or all the way
>back where the webs attach to the alternator housing itself?
>
>Were you able to discern any evidence of a pre-existing crack?
>
>That mount looks to be heck for stout!
>
>Amazing that it broke.
>
>Thanks for the warning.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Indicator and piece-meal |
development programs
>
>Yes, good advice. One reason I considered a vane type vs a differential
>pressure type is that it would be mounted on the wing right outside my
>window and a quick glance outside would "calibrate" the interior
>electronic reading. Helps keep that ice nice and thick out there on the
>edge : )
>
>The other thing is that this really isn't rocket science- just a simple
>readout of position with a couple of alarms so I figured it would be less
>risky than a more elaborate means of measuring angle of attack.
>
>In any event when I get time I'll probably start playing around on a
>breadboard and develop and test the hardware (vane, mounting system, etc)
>and then be back asking more questions when the time comes to build a
>board. I'm sure, as you say, that there are some really good things I
>could do to make a nice robust circuit.
Okay, perhaps not "rocket science" but still subject to
numerous simple but critical ideas not the least of which
have been well described by others in this thread.
Given the possibility and risk of erroneous measurement
and display a heightened degree of caution is prudent.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
>
>Normally I wouldn't dream of forwarding pictures to this list, but these
>are ultra-topical. They're what remain of a 20 amp B&C backup alternator
>that was mounted on the vacuum pad of a Lycoming 260 hp IO-540 on a
>Berkut. More details as I get them.
Richard, the list-server won't pass attachments. Mail them
to me directly and I'll post them on the server.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Failure |
>
>Bob et al --
>
>I'm presently planning to equip my F1 Rocket with 2 alternators and a
>single batt.as per Z-12. My question is with respect to batt failure in
>flight and possible negative effect on alternator{s} powering the system.
>
>Over many years with automobiles and airplanes [too many years] I have had
>numerous batt failures, usually but not always due to poor maintenance,
>and alternator failures. But I have never had a batt failure which, with
>the engine running, inhibited the ability of the alternator to power the
>electrics.
Most alternators will continue to run self-excited should the
battery become unavailable due either to battery or contactor
failure. The resulting power is always noisier and always
less stable. If the system is hit with a momentary inrush
like landing light, landing gear motor, etc, the alternator
may be momentarily deprived of field excitation and may
simply quit and may not come back by itself.
>I expect that if engine RPM is less than that needed by the alternator to
>support the load, and the batt is discharged, at some point power to the
>field will drop below minimum and the lights will go out.
>
>Are there other conditions one should be concerned about?
Nope, there's a lot of "ifs" and "mays" in the scenarios cited
above. Bonanzas and Barons have been architectured and alternators
selected to self excite and run sans battery. There may be other
airplanes capable of this kind of operation but I'm not aware
of them.
Construction of the modern RG battery and always hot feeds to
the e-bus will mitigate 99% of the historical failure modes.
I don't think there is much of a basis for concern.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Steve Dari (stevedari(at)msn.com) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 at 09:07:22
>
>Tuesday, September 16, 2003
>
>Steve Dari
>
>,
>Email: stevedari(at)msn.com
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob! I'm a subscriber to your publication. It was a
>tremendous help in preparing my Formula One racing aircraft. Just returned
>from our rookie year at Reno with a 5th place in the Bronze. We've
>determined that the plane is at the extreme rear of the CG envelope. This
>makes the plane extremely pitch sensitive. We have a 17AH RG battery
>behind the pilot's seat. We'd like to use a 7.5AH RG battery on the
>firewall (plenty of power!), but the battery connecting lugs are a
>problem. Does ANYONE make a 7.5 battery with heavy bolt on lugs? Could we
>make such a powerpack ourselves using smaller batteries connected
>together? (probably way too much internal rsistance...) Thanks again for
>your publication and website. I look forward to your response. All the
>best, Steve Dari - Pilot, Redhead Racing.
Check with Bill at B&C (316) 283-8000
He has some small batteries with fat lugs.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kkinney(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: XCOM Radio Update] |
I've expressed some interest in the XCOM760 radio. It's comparable in price to
the MicroAir in a similar form factor with more features. The down side is that
it's not shipping yet.
I've received an update on the XCOM760 status. Here is an editted version of the
status update. Email me offline if you'd like the entire posting.
Regards,
Kevin Kinney
> From: Michael Coates XCOM Avionics
>
> Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2003
>
> =95 I personally think its 8 to 12 weeks for shipping
>
> =95 We will source either an ICOM, Becker or Microair (or any other radio of
your choice) at better than retail price for you, match it to the XCOM Intercom
and a custom harness to get you airborne in the quickest time with the minimum
amount of fuss
>
> =95 If you=92re one of the few who have a harness from us we will either modify
it to fit the new radio of your choice or you can return it for refund because
of the delays
>
> =95 Or you can be patient and wait for the radio if your not in an immediate
rush
>
> Thanks Michael Coates X-COM Avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Faston Terminals on 7.2 ah Aux Battery |
Bob,
I am using the 7.2 ah aux batt from B & C on Z-14, coupled with the 20 amp vac
pad alternator.
I am trying to figure out how to terminate the #4 AWG wires to plug into the Faston
terminals of the battery. Any suggestions?
Thanks as always.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
Bob,
I have a few questions about your drawing of Z-14 with two rear-mounted
batteries, which you posted at
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf.
You indicate that the connection from the crossfeed contactor to the
starter and the main alternator current limiter should be a copper/brass
strap, .032" by .70". First, for educational purposes, what is the purpose
for this strap rather than, say, 2 AWG wire? Second, can one substitute,
say, 2AWG wire, welding wire, etc.? Third, if the strap is best, where can
it be obtained?
Thanks,
Dan O'Brien
Lancair ES, beginning an electrical system with two rear-mounted batteries
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faston Terminals on 7.2 ah Aux Battery |
Just saw your note(not to me directly of course). I just handled that
problem on my Kitfox: It has two 12AH RGs in parallel. I took a faston connector
at
the end , and again at an appropriate distance to match up to the second
battery terminal, bared the 2AWG (happened to be silver coated stranded) got out
my
propane torch to provide instant hi heat but locally (not so much conducted
heat while waiting for the iron to heat up the metal) I buried them into the
wire and soldered them up. I also happened to have some 4:1 heat shrink that
was put over them and shrunk. On the ends ( there were two: one for the pos pair
and one for the neg pair) I dipped them in liquid tool handle compound
(WalWort, tool stores,etc.)--red for the positive and black for the neg. I suppose
liquid electrical tape is the same. Sure looks good. Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul" <list(at)incont.com> |
| Subject: | Auxiliary Electrical System |
I have a '54 Cessna 170B with a C145-2 Engine and 60Amp Ford
alternator (14V system). I would like to remove the venturii's
(2) and go to a secondary electrical system with enough power to
run an electric directional gyro, artificial horizon and a Garmin
300XL GPS/COM for up to 4 hours. Any suggestions? THANKS, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | H10-40 Headsets for sale |
Listers,
I have two H10-40 headsets that I am no longer using, and would like to
sell. Both are a few years old, but in excellent condition. One has a head
pad and gel ear muffs. Both have foam mike filters.
I'm asking $150.00 each, or $275.00 for both. Anybody interested should
contact me off the list at the email address below.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs
fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Faston Terminals on 7.2 ah Aux Battery |
>
>Bob,
>
>I am using the 7.2 ah aux batt from B & C on Z-14, coupled with the 20 amp
>vac pad alternator.
>
>I am trying to figure out how to terminate the #4 AWG wires to plug into
>the Faston terminals of the battery. Any suggestions?
Sure, as a general rule, any battery fitted with fast-on
terminals is incapable of delivering a discharge current
worthy of 4AWG wire . . . with a few exceptions. I believe
I've seen some of the very popular 17 a.h. size batteries
optionally offered with both bolt-on posts -OR-
1/4" fast-ons . . . obviously this battery is capable of
such currents but would probably burn the tabs off if
you loaded it that hard.
Keep in mind that the Z-drawings are exemplar documents
that suggest wire sizes based on certain variables . . . these
may change under various conditions. For example:
Rear mounted batteries get fatter wires to offset
voltage drop considerations. Small batteries used
primarily to stabilize and alternator and perhaps
provide momentary support for accessories not
designed to live in real world (FADEC and some
EFIS systems) might have fast-on tabs and will
use smaller wire. In the case of 1/4" fast-on
fitted batteries, 10AWG wire can be crimped
into a yellow 1/4" fast-on terminal. If this
battery is supported only by a small alternator
(SD-8 or SD-20) then all "fat" wires in the
smaller system can be downsized to 10 (SD-20)
or 12AWG (SD-8).
If you're contemplating installation of a
battery with 1/4" fast-on terminals wherein
starter current may flow from this battery,
you need to get a battery with better terminals.
Even if you don't expect to use the smaller battery
for starting, an overly robust wire on a 1/4"
terminal offers unnecessary vibration stresses
to this terminal. Battery to contactor and battery
to ground jumpers are generally short and can be
mechanically undersized to enhance vibration
resistance (B&C offers 4AWG battery jumpers
which are useful even in systems where the long
battery feeds are 2AWG).
There are a few small batteries capable of engine
cranking currents and have appropriately sized,
threaded terminals. See B&C catalog for latest
offerings.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Instrument cutouts |
I'd like to proceed with the panel wiring & plumbing etc, and then slot in
flight instruments at the last minute (i.e. in about a year's time) but I'm
rather nervous about cutting holes and then discovering that the instruments
I buy (esp. gyros) don't fit, e.g. if I've cut the holes too close together.
Can anyone recommend a spacing for instruments, or make any other suggestions
for this?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
| Subject: | Cell Phone Headset Adapter |
Hi all,
I've seen the archived discussion regarding the legality/usefulness of
using a cell phone in an airplane.
My question is: Is there an easy way to make a cell phone adapter for
aviation headsets/intercom? If so, what is it (diagram perhaps??)? Is
using one of the premade versions like SafetyCell
(http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/1767) the best way to go
(it seems kinda pricey).
Thanks!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 455 Hrs. TT - 3.5 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Wilson <pwilson(at)climber.org> |
| Subject: | big wire terminations |
Bob,
I have misplaced the link for the DIY attachment of the lugs on big wires. Can
you provide the link?
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Campbell" <GregCampbellUSA(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA//LED's for cockpit (Paul Messinger) |
If you don't have time to build the "vane type" AOA described,
you might consider the Rite Angle IIIb from EMAviation.
Check out www.RiteAngle.com then click on "Angle of Attack System Info".
For $545 + $50 for the flap option (necessary in my opinion if you have flaps).
The display is a simple row of color coded LED's - you can mount one or two of
them.
One idea was to put them in the glare shield so they reflect off the windshield
like a HUD.
Bob mentioned "piecemeal development"...
+ Flap position compensation for an additional $50 - includes flap position indicator
LEDs
+ Gear warning option for $40 - includes MAP switch for throttle position
+ Automatic and manual LED dimming
+ Audio warnings, adjustable volume
+ Optional second display or high intensity LEDs.
+ Automatic Power Supply from aircraft and/or separate batteries.
+ Simple programmer box - easy calibration.
Anyway - for not much more than the cost of the components to DIY,
you can get a system that's proven and ready to install.
I'm in the process of installing one - so I'll let you know
how it works. So far - the components and design are nice.
Greg Campbell
Lancair ES 75%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument cutouts |
>
>
>I'd like to proceed with the panel wiring & plumbing etc, and then slot in
>flight instruments at the last minute (i.e. in about a year's time) but I'm
>rather nervous about cutting holes and then discovering that the instruments
>I buy (esp. gyros) don't fit, e.g. if I've cut the holes too close together.
>
>Can anyone recommend a spacing for instruments, or make any other suggestions
>for this?
>
>Many thanks in anticipation.
>
>Nev
>
>--
>Jodel D-150 in progress
>UK
I see two options:
1. Decide exactly which manufacturer and model instruments you will use,
then get the dimensions from them.
2. Use 3 5/8" spacing, which should be safe for the popular items.
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite airplane, does
the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a circle if the
area is the same?
Kenneth Melvin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
>
>
> When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite airplane,
> does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a
> circle if the area is the same?
>Kenneth Melvin
From Jim Wier, on rec.aviation.homebuilt
=============
Think of an aluminum pie pan after you've eaten the
pie. Circular, about 6" in diameter (I eat small pies). Anyway, you've
got a disk of thin aluminum after you cut the bent-up edges of the pie pan
off about 5.5 inches in diameter. Poke a 3/8" hole in the dead center of
that aluminum disk, mount the little transponder antenna (the one with the
little b-b on the top of the rod) and connector in the hole, point the rod
DOWN towards the ground, and away you go.
Some considerations:
1. It doesn't have to be circular. It can be square, elliptical,
hexagonal, or an old stop sign. What IS important is that there MUST be
equal metal on all sides of the radiating rod. What is ALSO important is
that there must be some place on every edge that is 2.75" away from the
center of the hole. Get it? If you do a SQUARE, make sure that you
average the side length versus the hypotenuse so that somewhere along each
edge there is a 2.75" length of metal from the center of the hole.
2. It doesn't have to be grounded to anything else in the airplane EXCEPT
the shield of the coax running to the transponder. It CAN be grounded if
you want, but it is not necessary.
3. It can be anything from one mil tinfoil to armor plate thick and it
won't work any better or worse. Me? I use an old scrap of PC board for
the plain and simple reason that I can SOLDER the connector to the copper
foil and not have to ever worry about corrosion getting between the
connector and the ground plane.
4. Put a piece of metal -- tinfoil to armor plate -- between the antenna
and the "sensitive" parts of your anatomy. Think about putting your fanny
in a microwave oven and the consequences thereof. Don't worry about your
head. If we all had any brains we'd be out chasing women instead of
messing with airplanes anyway.
5. In an airplane where it doesn't stick out into the slipstream and
create drag, the little "b-b rod" antenna works every bit as well as the
expensive blade. Save your money and get more avionics instead of wasting
it on blade antennas. I know this little avionics company in Grass
Valley...{;-)
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: big wire terminations |
>
>Bob,
>I have misplaced the link for the DIY attachment of the lugs on big wires.
>Can you provide the link?
> Thanks, Paul
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary Electrical System |
>
>I have a '54 Cessna 170B with a C145-2 Engine and 60Amp Ford
>alternator (14V system). I would like to remove the venturii's
>(2) and go to a secondary electrical system with enough power to
>run an electric directional gyro, artificial horizon and a Garmin
>300XL GPS/COM for up to 4 hours. Any suggestions? THANKS, Paul
Talk to B&C at 316.283.8000 and see what their recommendations
are for your particular situation. If your airplane were OBAM
it would be easy but you'll need to arm-wrestle with the FAA
over any choices you make . . . Bill will have some recommendations
in this regard.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument cutouts |
The last page of the "Instruments" section of the Aircraft Spruce catalog has instrument panel templates. Copy the page, cut out the templates onto cardboard, and play jigsaw-puzzle games on your panel before cutting. Also, you can lay out the panel digitally using the graphics tool at www.epanelbuilder.com, although that doesn't give you precise dimensions.
Pedro
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
>I'd like to proceed with the panel wiring & plumbing etc, and then slot in
>flight instruments at the last minute (i.e. in about a year's time) but I'm
>rather nervous about cutting holes and then discovering that the instruments
>I buy (esp. gyros) don't fit, e.g. if I've cut the holes too close together.
>
>Can anyone recommend a spacing for instruments, or make any other suggestions
>for this?
>
>Many thanks in anticipation.
>
>Nev
>
>--
>Jodel D-150 in progress
>UK
I see two options:
1. Decide exactly which manufacturer and model instruments you will use,
then get the dimensions from them.
2. Use 3 5/8" spacing, which should be safe for the popular items.
Kevin Horton
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Kenneth Melvin"
:
Envoy : mercredi 24 septembre 2003 17:24
Objet : AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
> When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite airplane,
does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a circle
if the area is the same?
> Kenneth Melvin
>
Kenneth,
My understanding is as follows :
-The radius of a circular plate must be 1/4 wave.
- The DIAGONAL of a a square-rectangle must be 1/4 wave.
- The ground plane may bend away from the antenna.
Hope this helps,
Gilles Thesee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
>
>
> When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite airplane,
> does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a
> circle if the area is the same?
>Kenneth Melvin
You'll get a number of answers to this . . . some will include
words like "must", "should" and "shall" . . .
From the best of all worlds perspective, a 1/4 wave monopole
antenna (like transponder and DME antennas) perform best when
operated against a "ground plane" . . . the ideal ground plane
extends to the horizon in all directions. Practical ground planes
are much smaller . . . in fact, it takes good test equipment to
measure the difference between an infinite ground plane and one
that is fabricated from an infinite number of 1/4 wave monopole
antennas radiating out from the base of the antenna in a disk
shaped plane . . .
Given that a transponder antenna is 2.65" tall, the ideal tuned
ground plane has a RADIUS of 2.65" or 5.3" DIAMETER.
This configuration yields an antenna system with a feedpoint
impedance somewhat less than the ideal 50 ohms . . . so if you
wanted to get really pedantic about it, the radial plane can
be drooped away from the antenna (becoming cone shaped) by
an amount necessary to raise the nominal 30 ohm feedpoint up
to 50 ohms . . . needless to say, we don't see many transponder
antennas on airplanes with conical groundplanes under them. We
OFTEN see fixed antennas on airport buildings with drooped radials.
Airborne radio communications extends only to
the relatively nearby horizon, so most radios would perform
adequately using a wet string for an antenna. Well, perhaps
something a little better than wet string . . . but
it is sufficient to say that poor radio performance on an
airplane is seldom a function of marginal antenna design.
Bottom line is that if you have a hunk of scrap around the
shop from which you can cut a 5.3" disk, fine. If you have
a weirdly-shaped hunk of .08" scrap (too heavy to use snips
and you don't have a bandsaw) with one dimension over 5",
you can use that too and you're never going to know the
difference. Needless to say, if the ground plane is something
other than flat, the un-flatness will do you the most
good if it moves away from the antenna. The "magic"
isn't area but distance from the center. We often see
building mounted antennas with four radially positioned
conductors as a ground plane. These are known to perform
within a few percent of the capability of a full disk
tuned ground plane which is almost indistinguishable from
the ideal infinite ground plane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a few questions about your drawing of Z-14 with two rear-mounted
>batteries, which you posted at
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf.
>
>You indicate that the connection from the crossfeed contactor to the
>starter and the main alternator current limiter should be a copper/brass
>strap, .032" by .70". First, for educational purposes, what is the purpose
>for this strap rather than, say, 2 AWG wire? Second, can one substitute,
>say, 2AWG wire, welding wire, etc.? Third, if the strap is best, where can
>it be obtained?
It is often very useful to mount high current
components right next to each other. In some of my
drawings I show the ANL fuse holder, starter contactor
and crossfeed contactors mounted right next to each other.
It's difficult and ugly to put terminals on very short
pieces of fat wire to make up connections between
these components. Strips of copper or brass can be bent
and drilled to provide nice conducting straps that
have no joints, are easy to fabricate and will make
a VERY compact installation compared to the use of wire
and terminals.
Building suppliers have flashing copper. Hobby shops and
hardware stores stock KS Engineering hobby materials.
http://www.ksmetals.com/
http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/structural_sheet.asp
See if a local hobby shop or hardware store can
sell you a 6" x 12" x 0.32" copper sheet.
If push comes to shove, you can order off the 'net
One source is Tower Hobbies at
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0091P?&C=RDB&V=K+S
Where we see a listing for CS32 copper sheet (3 sheets
for $25). A local store can sell you one sheet from
their display case.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
09/24/2003 07:33:11 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/24/2003 07:33:11 PM
Does anyone have experience with the Westach 720-4a proximity sensor
used as a prop tachometer. I was planning to mount it behind (and in
proximity to)
the 6 radial bolts attaching my Rotax to my Airmaster. I was planning on
using
its output to drive a BMA EFIS/1. There seems to be be very little info
on the web about it.
Ira N224XS
Back from Upholstery, Panel mounted, Prop hub mounted :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Bob -
In the file below, you show the crossfeed contactor on the firewall with
the starter and alternator B-leads. In a previous discussion regarding Z-
14, you recommended that the crossfeed contactor be in the rear with the
batteries. We are about to start the wiring with 4 contactors in the rear
(ground power contactor feeding #2 battery contactor and the crossfeed
contactor tying the #1 battery contactor to the the # 2 battery contactor.
Any reason not to go this way?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
Lancair Super ES
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-
> 14_Rear_Bats.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
>
>
>Bob -
>
>In the file below, you show the crossfeed contactor on the firewall with
>the starter and alternator B-leads. In a previous discussion regarding Z-
>14, you recommended that the crossfeed contactor be in the rear with the
>batteries. We are about to start the wiring with 4 contactors in the rear
>(ground power contactor feeding #2 battery contactor and the crossfeed
>contactor tying the #1 battery contactor to the the # 2 battery contactor.
>
>Any reason not to go this way?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Schroeder
>Lancair Super ES
> > <http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z- >
> 14_Rear_Bats.pdf
What size are your batteries? Do you intend to crank with
both batteries? If they are both capable of and will
be used to crank, then I prefer to put the crossfeed contactor
on the firewall so that it can be power distribution point from
each battery to its respective bus and terminate one end of
the feed to starter.
If the aux battery is small and will not be used to crank,
then the crossfeed contactor can be relatively small . . .
Like and S704-1 relay as opposed to an S701-1 contactor.
Here the relay is a poor terminal block for fat wires
so the notion of putting it on the firewall has no
mechanical value for gathering fat wires together so
one could consider putting it back next to the batteries.
Personally, I like the S701-2's ability to provide both
crossfeed function and serve as a distribution point
for the suite of system feedwires . . . If you've
got a substantial aux alternator (SD-20 or larger)
then S701-2 on the firewall would be my contactor
style and location of choice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
Great info. Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ground plane
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> ----- Message d'origine -----
> De : "Kenneth Melvin"
> :
> Envoy : mercredi 24 septembre 2003 17:24
> Objet : AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
>
>
> >
> > When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite
airplane,
> does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a
circle
> if the area is the same?
> > Kenneth Melvin
> >
>
> Kenneth,
> My understanding is as follows :
>
> -The radius of a circular plate must be 1/4 wave.
> - The DIAGONAL of a a square-rectangle must be 1/4 wave.
> - The ground plane may bend away from the antenna.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Gilles Thesee
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
Very helpful information. Thankyou!
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard(at)riley.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
> >
> >
> > When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite
airplane,
> > does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a
> > circle if the area is the same?
> >Kenneth Melvin
>
> From Jim Wier, on rec.aviation.homebuilt
> =============
>
> Think of an aluminum pie pan after you've eaten the
> pie. Circular, about 6" in diameter (I eat small pies). Anyway, you've
> got a disk of thin aluminum after you cut the bent-up edges of the pie pan
> off about 5.5 inches in diameter. Poke a 3/8" hole in the dead center of
> that aluminum disk, mount the little transponder antenna (the one with the
> little b-b on the top of the rod) and connector in the hole, point the rod
> DOWN towards the ground, and away you go.
>
> Some considerations:
>
> 1. It doesn't have to be circular. It can be square, elliptical,
> hexagonal, or an old stop sign. What IS important is that there MUST be
> equal metal on all sides of the radiating rod. What is ALSO important is
> that there must be some place on every edge that is 2.75" away from the
> center of the hole. Get it? If you do a SQUARE, make sure that you
> average the side length versus the hypotenuse so that somewhere along each
> edge there is a 2.75" length of metal from the center of the hole.
>
> 2. It doesn't have to be grounded to anything else in the airplane EXCEPT
> the shield of the coax running to the transponder. It CAN be grounded if
> you want, but it is not necessary.
>
> 3. It can be anything from one mil tinfoil to armor plate thick and it
> won't work any better or worse. Me? I use an old scrap of PC board for
> the plain and simple reason that I can SOLDER the connector to the copper
> foil and not have to ever worry about corrosion getting between the
> connector and the ground plane.
>
> 4. Put a piece of metal -- tinfoil to armor plate -- between the antenna
> and the "sensitive" parts of your anatomy. Think about putting your fanny
> in a microwave oven and the consequences thereof. Don't worry about your
> head. If we all had any brains we'd be out chasing women instead of
> messing with airplanes anyway.
>
> 5. In an airplane where it doesn't stick out into the slipstream and
> create drag, the little "b-b rod" antenna works every bit as well as the
> expensive blade. Save your money and get more avionics instead of wasting
> it on blade antennas. I know this little avionics company in Grass
> Valley...{;-)
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
As ever, the definitive answer. Thanks Bob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
> >
> >
> > When fitting a transponder antenna ground plane in a composite
airplane,
> > does the shape of the metal plate matter? Is a rectangle as good as a
> > circle if the area is the same?
> >Kenneth Melvin
>
> You'll get a number of answers to this . . . some will include
> words like "must", "should" and "shall" . . .
>
> From the best of all worlds perspective, a 1/4 wave monopole
> antenna (like transponder and DME antennas) perform best when
> operated against a "ground plane" . . . the ideal ground plane
> extends to the horizon in all directions. Practical ground planes
> are much smaller . . . in fact, it takes good test equipment to
> measure the difference between an infinite ground plane and one
> that is fabricated from an infinite number of 1/4 wave monopole
> antennas radiating out from the base of the antenna in a disk
> shaped plane . . .
>
> Given that a transponder antenna is 2.65" tall, the ideal tuned
> ground plane has a RADIUS of 2.65" or 5.3" DIAMETER.
>
> This configuration yields an antenna system with a feedpoint
> impedance somewhat less than the ideal 50 ohms . . . so if you
> wanted to get really pedantic about it, the radial plane can
> be drooped away from the antenna (becoming cone shaped) by
> an amount necessary to raise the nominal 30 ohm feedpoint up
> to 50 ohms . . . needless to say, we don't see many transponder
> antennas on airplanes with conical groundplanes under them. We
> OFTEN see fixed antennas on airport buildings with drooped radials.
>
> Airborne radio communications extends only to
> the relatively nearby horizon, so most radios would perform
> adequately using a wet string for an antenna. Well, perhaps
> something a little better than wet string . . . but
> it is sufficient to say that poor radio performance on an
> airplane is seldom a function of marginal antenna design.
>
> Bottom line is that if you have a hunk of scrap around the
> shop from which you can cut a 5.3" disk, fine. If you have
> a weirdly-shaped hunk of .08" scrap (too heavy to use snips
> and you don't have a bandsaw) with one dimension over 5",
> you can use that too and you're never going to know the
> difference. Needless to say, if the ground plane is something
> other than flat, the un-flatness will do you the most
> good if it moves away from the antenna. The "magic"
> isn't area but distance from the center. We often see
> building mounted antennas with four radially positioned
> conductors as a ground plane. These are known to perform
> within a few percent of the capability of a full disk
> tuned ground plane which is almost indistinguishable from
> the ideal infinite ground plane.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Instrument cutouts |
>
> I'd like to proceed with the panel wiring & plumbing etc, and
> then slot in flight instruments at the last minute (i.e. in
> about a year's time) but I'm rather nervous about cutting
> holes and then discovering that the instruments I buy (esp.
> gyros) don't fit, e.g. if I've cut the holes too close together.
>
Why not wait until you have the instruments? If it is a year away,
you'll probably change your mind about numerous things. I don't see the
gain in doing the cutouts now.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 372 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Connecting Whelen Strobes |
I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this
drain wire.
I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same
questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone
know?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
III"
>Bob/Others - First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the
Whelen >strobe shielding on composites. What's the best way to attach
the AL
foil,
>solder wire to it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the
>strake-wing junction, what kind of connector would you recommend there,
>another Molex? And finally, would it be sufficient to put a ring
terminal
>under the mounting screw for the ground connection at the light
fixture,
>or should I solder the sheild to the housing, or what?
There is a bare, stranded wired IN ADDITION to the three insulated
wires
under the shield. This forth wire is called a "drain wire" and its
purpose
is to provide you with a convenient means for making electrical
connection
to the shield-foil which is, as you've noted, impossible to make
connection with. You can extend the drain wire with a short piece of
wire, install a ring terminal and attach to mounting screw for
fixture.
If you DON'T do this, in all probability, you won't know the
difference.>>
6/29/2003
Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few
more
lashes.
1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both
ends on
a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the
cable
already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end.
These
connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at
the
strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and
snaking
those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe
power
supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire
connectors
provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be
connected
to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by
leaving
the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the
3 wire
connectors that plug into the power supply.
4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen
installed
connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose
one could
cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a
short
wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to
some metal
part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling
and
unnecessary.
5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies
mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of
any need
to
go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the
metal
light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different?
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question |
Bob,
I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo DIY audio
isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output into a stereo
intercom to accomplish this?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit systems stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting Whelen Strobes |
>
>I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this
>drain wire.
>
>I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same
>questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone
>know?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
>III"
>
>
> >Bob/Others - First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the
>
>Whelen >strobe shielding on composites. What's the best way to attach
>the AL
>foil,
> >solder wire to it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the
>
> >strake-wing junction, what kind of connector would you recommend there,
>
> >another Molex? And finally, would it be sufficient to put a ring
>terminal
> >under the mounting screw for the ground connection at the light
>fixture,
> >or should I solder the sheild to the housing, or what?
>
> There is a bare, stranded wired IN ADDITION to the three insulated
>wires
> under the shield. This forth wire is called a "drain wire" and its
>purpose
> is to provide you with a convenient means for making electrical
>connection
> to the shield-foil which is, as you've noted, impossible to make
> connection with. You can extend the drain wire with a short piece of
> wire, install a ring terminal and attach to mounting screw for
>fixture.
> If you DON'T do this, in all probability, you won't know the
>difference.>>
>
>6/29/2003
>
>Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few
>more
>lashes.
>
>1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both
>ends on
>a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
Actually, the answer was a tad short on info . . . if the
fixture is mounted on an insulated surface (either composite
airplane or composite tip cap on a metal airplane) it is
sometimes helpful to ground the base of the strobe lamp
assembly to the drain wire that brings strobe power
out to the fixture . . . back in the 60's when strobes
were the exception as opposed to the rule, we went through
some gyrations to reduce the "flash pop" noise that would
appear in the headphones when tuned to weak stations. Extending
the shield ground to the strobe base -AND- adding a conductive mesh
to the inside surface of the strobe lamp lens did help but didn't
reduce it to zero.
The full answer should say, it won't hurt to ground your
otherwise insulated strobe fixture to the shield of the
strobe feeder . . . but it may not help a darn thing either.
If the fixture is mounted to a metalic surface that is
common to the airframe, don't hook your remote end shield
drain to anything . . .
>2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the
>cable
>already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end.
>These
>
>connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at
>the
>strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and
>snaking
>
>those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe
>power
>supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire
>connectors
>provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
Sounds like a good plan to me . . .
>3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be
>connected
>to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by
>leaving
>the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the
>3 wire
>
>connectors that plug into the power supply.
. . . another good plan. Somebody goofed when
they designed that system. The connectors at the
power supply should have been 4-pin devices with a
pin dedicated to the shield ground. Actually, if
one had a schematic of the power supply, you may
find that the black wire in the strobe cable is
internally connected to case ground. If this is
true, then your shield drain wire COULD be legitimately
crimped into the connector pin along with the black wire.
>4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen
>installed
>connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose
>one could
>
>cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a
>short
>wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to
>some metal
>
>part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling
>and
>unnecessary.
Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove all exposed shield foil.
Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector.
this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply
terminal and bolt to base.
>5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies
>mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of
>any need
>to
>go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the
>metal
>light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different?
Depends on how you define "need" . . . virtually EVERY airplane
I rent has some kind of audible noise in the audio that
comes from some other system. Most of the time, it's too low
to be a nuisance compared to cabin noise. Some times it's audible
but considered too small to be worth the labor of chasing it out
of the system.
The technique we're discussing has more to do with craftsmanship
founded on an understanding of the physics and nothing to do with
a personal perception of need or utility. Lots of airplanes
fly satisfactorily without paint, spinners, wheel pants, or even
an electrical system. Airplanes that DO have these features are
crafted by individuals who satisfied their own perceptions of utility
that may well differ from yours. If you want to let your strobe
shields dangle, it is after all an OBAM aircraft . . . but
when it's not hard to do, why not?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question |
>
>Bob,
> I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo
> DIY audio isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output
> into a stereo intercom to accomplish this?
Two mono headsets or stereo headsets. Do you have an
intercom selected? Stereo or Mono? The last two
pages of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700C.pdf
illustrate variations on these themes.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Resolver vs Converter education |
Fellow listers,
My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external CDI.
That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the whatever brand
CDI.
I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which takes
both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary CDI. The Narco
NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as inputs.
The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be calibrated
and should not be switched. These instructions also state that supplemental
CDI's should use converter signals only.
I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different type of
signals....
Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of signals be
used without the other?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Soooooo many little wires
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resolver vs Converter education |
>
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external
>CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the
>whatever brand CDI.
>
>I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which
>takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary
>CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as
>inputs.
>
>The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be
>calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that
>supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only.
>
>I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different
>type of signals....
>
>Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of
>signals be used without the other?
"resolver" data is a throwback to omni-bearing-selection technology
that goes all the way back to the vacuum tube "Super-Homers" and
"Omingators" of the early 60's that began with 4-tap, 360-degree
rotation potentiometers and ultimately evolved to the rotary transformer
shaft encoders like those shown here:
http://www.controlsciences.com/resolvers.html#resolver
A resolver is part of the mechanism that gets operated by
turning the OBS selector knob on an indicator while the
rotating bearing ring moves to show presently selected
omni bearing radial.
The VOR radial data exists in EVERY vor receiver in the
form of two signals (1) a 30 Hz sinewave generated from the
the relative filed strength of received signal based on
rotation of the transmitting antenna and the receiver's
relative position around the trans (2) a 10 Khz
signal FM modulated with another 30 Hz signal
>Thanks,
>Ralph Capen
>Soooooo many little wires
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resolver vs Converter education |
>
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external
>CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the
>whatever brand CDI.
>
>I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which
>takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary
>CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as
>inputs.
>
>The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be
>calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that
>supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only.
>
>I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different
>type of signals....
>
>Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of
>signals be used without the other?
"resolver" data is a throwback to omni-bearing-selection technology
that goes all the way back to the vacuum tube "Super-Homers" and
"Omingators" of the early 60's that began with 4-tap, 360-degree
rotation potentiometers and ultimately evolved to the rotary transformer
shaft encoders like those shown here:
http://www.controlsciences.com/resolvers.html#resolver
A resolver is part of the mechanism that gets operated by
turning the OBS selector knob on an indicator while the
rotating bearing ring moves to show presently selected
omni bearing radial.
The VOR radial data exists in EVERY vor receiver in the
form of two signals (1) a 30 Hz sinewave generated from the
the relative filed strength of received signal based on
rotation of the transmitting antenna and the receiver's
relative position around the ground based transmitter's
location (2) a 10 Khz signal FM modulated with another
30 Hz signal that provides a fixed reference signal.
The combination of these two signals is COMPOSITE raw
data which can be resolved by a variety of digital and
analog converter techniques to display present bearing
from the omni transmitter.
While the so called resolver signals are sensitive to
the effects of poor switching techniques, this is not
a reason to deliberately avoid switches. There
are dozens of TSO'd indicator selector switches that
allow a single resolver-based CDI/OBS indicator to
be shared by both VOR and GPS receivers. However,
you generally cannot drive TWO indicators from one
set of resolver outputs while you can drive multiple
indicators from a single output of composite data.
If your desire is to use the single indicator for both
VOR and GPS displays, you can switch the instrument
between the two receivers . . . I'd opt for switching
the COMPOSITE data line . . . much simpler than dealing
with all the separate wires needed to switch the resolver,
pointer and flag signals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Resolver vs Converter => composite? |
Bob,
Thanks for your info.....My intent is to use the Narco as a backup CDI as it
has switchable external inputs with the NSD1000 HSI as the primary CDI
device.
Now my new confusion.....
You reference a composite data line - the stuff that I have looks like six
resolver (listed as rotor and stator yadayada) signals and 12 converter
signals (listed as gs up+ gs dn+ etc) with no listings of composite per se
although there is a listing for a serial connection for a resolver....is
this what you mean by composite?
The NSD 1000 does not accept composite input nor does the Narco NAV122D/GPS,
which means that in order to make this work the way I want - I need to
switch all 18 lines for the input as well as the stuff in the NAV122 right?!
Thanks again,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Instrument cutouts |
Neville,
I waited to cut out my panel until I had my instruments and I am very glad I
did. I have a very crowded IFR panel in my RV-6 tip-up. With instruments in
hand I realized some were a lot deeper than anticipated and required cutting
the sub-panel. My initial plan was changed to clear panel braces, clear tip-up
hinges and glare shield reinforcements, and look good. I also canted my
radio stack 17 degrees toward the pilot for better viewing and that further
modified my initial panel plan. Waiting to cut my panel also enabled me to take
advantage of new technology.
Peter
RV-6, finishing wiring
Clearwater, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | H10-40 Headsets for sale (Sold) |
The headsets are sold.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: H10-40 Headsets for sale
IFC"
Listers,
I have two H10-40 headsets that I am no longer using, and would like
to
sell. Both are a few years old, but in excellent condition. One has a
head
pad and gel ear muffs. Both have foam mike filters.
I'm asking $150.00 each, or $275.00 for both. Anybody interested
should
contact me off the list at the email address below.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs
fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question |
>
>>
>>Bob,
>> I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo
>> DIY audio isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output
>> into a stereo intercom to accomplish this?
>
> Two mono headsets or stereo headsets. Do you have an
> intercom selected? Stereo or Mono? The last two
> pages of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700C.pdf
> illustrate variations on these themes.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
I currently own a mono headset and was given a mono intercom. However, I will
be upgrading to stereo components before my project is finished. The short answer
is - stereo. However, can I make it so that it will accept either type? I
have already printed out the web link mentioned above. I intend to build the
stereo version of the amp.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring harness |
for
aircraft use
Listers,
I was pondering how to wire my Ray Allen stick grips today. While rummaging around
my odds and ends box, I came across a wiring harness for a computer mouse.
Specifically, this mouse is designed to connect to a serial port on a PC style
computer. The harness has a very nice 9 pin D-sub female connector and back
shell attached. It's wires are rather small gauge but are color coded. The harness
does have a nice outer sheath protecting the harness. Best of all, the entire
harness is quite thin.
Does anyone know what gauge wire is used in these devices? I don't have any strippers
that go down that small. If the wire gauge is sufficient, I'd like to
try using this item to extend the wires from my stick grip out of the control
stick. Any suggestions (pro or con) will be appreciated.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring |
harness for aircraft use
Hey Charlie, Check out gary Newsteads site. He did the very same thing.
You can check with him for the details
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_aileronsrvo.jpg
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvoleads.jpg
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvobrkt2.jpg
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvobrkt2.jpg
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvorouting.jpg
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>Listers,
>I was pondering how to wire my Ray Allen stick grips today. While rummaging around
my odds and ends box, I came across a wiring harness for a computer mouse.
Specifically, this mouse is designed to connect to a serial port on a PC style
computer. The harness has a very nice 9 pin D-sub female connector and back
shell attached. It's wires are rather small gauge but are color coded. The harness
does have a nice outer sheath protecting the harness. Best of all, the entire
harness is quite thin.
> Does anyone know what gauge wire is used in these devices? I don't have any strippers
that go down that small. If the wire gauge is sufficient, I'd like to
try using this item to extend the wires from my stick grip out of the control
stick. Any suggestions (pro or con) will be appreciated.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | connecting Whelen strobes (2) |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<< I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this
drain wire. I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same
questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone
know? Larry Bowen>>
9/25/2003
Hello Larry, The points 2, 3, and 4 in my posting were not questions. They
were statements about how one can connect the strobes and (wing tip) position
lights to the power supply in a Whelen installation. I threw in a few
rhetorical questions on items 1 and 5 as challenging items and you are right, no
one
has responded to those questions.
But read my 5 items again (I'll copy them below). If you still have any
questions about your installation either post your specific questions or shoot
me
an email direct.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116
--------------PREVIOUS POST FOLLOWS
----------------------------------------------
6/29/2003
Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few more
lashes.
1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both ends on
a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the cable
already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end. These
connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at the
strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and snaking
those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe power
supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire connectors
provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be connected
to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by leaving
the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the 3 wire
connectors that plug into the power supply.
4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen installed
connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose one could
cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a short
wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to some metal
part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling and
unnecessary.
5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies
mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of any need
to
go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the metal
light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | connecting Whelen strobes (2) |
Thanks OC.
For better or worse, I just finished up the rudder light tonight. I
removed the foil, wrapped the drain around the cable, in case it's
needed later, and connected up the remaining wires as normal. The light
works fine, but I haven't hooked up the power supply yet so I don't have
a report on the strobes. And my audio is not ready yet either, which
will be the real test. And, to add another varible to the pile, I'm
using the a clone power supply
(http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?682). The instructions
and diagrams don't address the drain wire. I've asked the strobe guy
for recommendations, but no news yet.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Larry Bowen"
>
>
> << I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am
> confused about this drain wire. I found the post below in
> the archives that asks many of the same questions I have,
> but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone know?
> Larry Bowen>>
>
> 9/25/2003
>
> Hello Larry, The points 2, 3, and 4 in my posting were not
> questions. They
> were statements about how one can connect the strobes and
> (wing tip) position
> lights to the power supply in a Whelen installation. I threw in a few
> rhetorical questions on items 1 and 5 as challenging items
> and you are right, no one
> has responded to those questions.
>
> But read my 5 items again (I'll copy them below). If you
> still have any
> questions about your installation either post your specific
> questions or shoot me
> an email direct.
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116
>
> --------------PREVIOUS POST FOLLOWS
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> 6/29/2003
>
> Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this
> horse a few more
> lashes.
>
> 1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached
> at both ends on
> a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
>
> 2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from
> Whelen the cable
> already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one
> on each end. These
> connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire
> connectors at the
> strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the
> middle and snaking
> those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of
> the strobe power
> supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3
> wire connectors
> provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
>
> 3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire
> should be connected
> to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough
> to do by leaving
> the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and
> install the 3 wire
> connectors that plug into the power supply.
>
> 4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the
> Whelen installed
> connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire.
> I suppose one could
> cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield,
> attach a short
> wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that
> short wire to some metal
> part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both
> puzzling and
> unnecessary.
>
> 5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout
> the skies
> mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am
> unaware of any need to
> go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire
> to the metal
> light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me
> different?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resolver vs Converter => composite? |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for your info.....My intent is to use the Narco as a backup CDI as it
>has switchable external inputs with the NSD1000 HSI as the primary CDI
>device.
>
>Now my new confusion.....
>
>You reference a composite data line - the stuff that I have looks like six
>resolver (listed as rotor and stator yadayada) signals and 12 converter
>signals (listed as gs up+ gs dn+ etc) with no listings of composite per se
>although there is a listing for a serial connection for a resolver....is
>this what you mean by composite?
>
>The NSD 1000 does not accept composite input nor does the Narco NAV122D/GPS,
>which means that in order to make this work the way I want - I need to
>switch all 18 lines for the input as well as the stuff in the NAV122 right?!
Yup. Eric Jones was working on an ECB to mount 9, dpdt relays
to accomplish this. Eric, are those still available?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting Whelen Strobes |
>
>I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this
>drain wire.
>
>I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same
>questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone
>know?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
>III"
>
>
> >Bob/Others - First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the
>
>Whelen >strobe shielding on composites. What's the best way to attach
>the AL
>foil,
> >solder wire to it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the
>
> >strake-wing junction, what kind of connector would you recommend there,
>
> >another Molex? And finally, would it be sufficient to put a ring
>terminal
> >under the mounting screw for the ground connection at the light
>fixture,
> >or should I solder the sheild to the housing, or what?
>
> There is a bare, stranded wired IN ADDITION to the three insulated
>wires
> under the shield. This forth wire is called a "drain wire" and its
>purpose
> is to provide you with a convenient means for making electrical
>connection
> to the shield-foil which is, as you've noted, impossible to make
> connection with. You can extend the drain wire with a short piece of
> wire, install a ring terminal and attach to mounting screw for
>fixture.
> If you DON'T do this, in all probability, you won't know the
>difference.>>
>
>6/29/2003
>
>Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few
>more
>lashes.
>
>1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both
>ends on
>a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
Actually, the answer was a tad short on info . . . if the
fixture is mounted on an insulated surface (either composite
airplane or composite tip cap on a metal airplane) it is
sometimes helpful to ground the base of the strobe lamp
assembly to the drain wire that brings strobe power
out to the fixture . . . back in the 60's when strobes
were the exception as opposed to the rule, we went through
some gyrations to reduce the "flash pop" noise that would
appear in the headphones when tuned to weak stations. Extending
the shield ground to the strobe base -AND- adding a conductive mesh
to the inside surface of the strobe lamp lens did help but didn't
reduce it to zero.
The full answer should say, it won't hurt to ground your
otherwise insulated strobe fixture to the shield of the
strobe feeder . . . but it may not help a darn thing either.
If the fixture is mounted to a metalic surface that is
common to the airframe, don't hook your remote end shield
drain to anything . . .
>2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the
>cable
>already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end.
>These
>
>connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at
>the
>strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and
>snaking
>
>those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe
>power
>supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire
>connectors
>provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
Sounds like a good plan to me . . .
>3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be
>connected
>to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by
>leaving
>the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the
>3 wire
>
>connectors that plug into the power supply.
. . . another good plan. Somebody goofed when
they designed that system. The connectors at the
power supply should have been 4-pin devices with a
pin dedicated to the shield ground. Actually, if
one had a schematic of the power supply, you may
find that the black wire in the strobe cable is
internally connected to case ground. If this is
true, then your shield drain wire COULD be legitimately
crimped into the connector pin along with the black wire.
>4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen
>installed
>connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose
>one could
>
>cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a
>short
>wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to
>some metal
>
>part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling
>and
>unnecessary.
Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove all exposed shield foil.
Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector.
this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply
terminal and bolt to base.
>5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies
>mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of
>any need
>to
>go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the
>metal
>light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different?
Depends on how you define "need" . . . virtually EVERY airplane
I rent has some kind of audible noise in the audio that
comes from some other system. Most of the time, it's too low
to be a nuisance compared to cabin noise. Some times it's audible
but considered too small to be worth the labor of chasing it out
of the system.
The technique we're discussing has more to do with craftsmanship
founded on an understanding of the physics and nothing to do with
a personal perception of need or utility. Lots of airplanes
fly satisfactorily without paint, spinners, wheel pants, or even
an electrical system. Airplanes that DO have these features are
crafted by individuals who satisfied their own perceptions of utility
that may well differ from yours. If you want to let your strobe
shields dangle, it is after all an OBAM aircraft . . . but
when it's not hard to do, why not?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Deuchar" <deucharj(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | King KX 145 push to talk |
Hi all,
Does any one have a wiring diagram for a King KX 145? If so, can you tell me which
wire(s) is for the push to talk activation?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Michael" <MJones(at)hatch.ca> |
| Subject: | amphenol connectors |
hi all
I have the amphenol connectors for my electric gyros but don't know how to
attach wires to the amphenol connectors. Are the wires soldered or do I need
some kind of female pin to attach to the wire then insert this female pin
into the back of the connector.
thanx for the help guys
mike
NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
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If you have received this message in error please notify
HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin(at)hatch.ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 18-pole relay |
> >The NSD 1000 does not accept composite input nor does the Narco
NAV122D/GPS,
> >which means that in order to make this work the way I want - I need to
> >switch all 18 lines for the input as well as the stuff in the NAV122
right?!
>
> Yup. Eric Jones was working on an ECB to mount 9, dpdt relays
> to accomplish this. Eric, are those still available?
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks Bob,
Yes, I sell them kit or assembled. Check my website please.....
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Mice in my computer |
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suitability of a computer serial mouse
wiring
> harness for aircraft use
I think this is a good way to go for a control stick. A little stereo
microscope will make stripping and soldering simple.
One other point, the little ball position sensing parts in the ball-type
mice are great low friction position sensors. The output is not analog, but
this is easy to convert to anything you want.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: EFIS & IFR |
You would be hard pressed to find any requirements for TSO'd instruments be installed
in certified aircraft, much less homebuilts.
I would caution anyone from pressing this issue with your FSDO's and DAR's. They
may kick this up to a level that makes decisions without benefit of the regs.
And we may not like the answers. For instance, the GUIDANCE that was written
in AC 20.138 that has been adopted by many FSDO's and DAR's as THE ONLY means
of compliance for GPS installations in certified aircraft.
Ronnie Brown
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: EFIS & IFR
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
>
>
>It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative
>and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not
>sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to
>positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or
>equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA
>positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly
>IFR.
>
>I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is
>no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in
>experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR
>who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use,
>then please let me know.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Noel Simmons
Where does it say that an FAA or DAR signature is needed? Don't the
standard Operating Limitations simply say something to the effect of
"Aircraft restricted to day VFR unless equipped in accordance with FAR
91.XXX", where 91.XXX lists the equipment requirements for night or
IFR. So it is up to the pilot to decide whether the aircraft equipment
meets the requirements of FAR 91. Why make it more complicated than
that? By all means exercise good judgement and common sense when you
decide whether the aircraft is suitably equipped or not, but don't try to
fight needless bureaucratic battles.
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | connecting Whelen strobes (2) |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
The final answer from the factory regarding the drain wire:
You can ground it at both ends.
Thanks, Louis
www.Strobesnmore.com
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Larry Bowen said:
>
>
> Thanks OC.
>
> For better or worse, I just finished up the rudder light tonight. I
> removed the foil, wrapped the drain around the cable, in case it's
> needed later, and connected up the remaining wires as normal. The light
> works fine, but I haven't hooked up the power supply yet so I don't have
> a report on the strobes. And my audio is not ready yet either, which
> will be the real test. And, to add another varible to the pile, I'm
> using the a clone power supply
> (http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?682). The instructions
> and diagrams don't address the drain wire. I've asked the strobe guy
> for recommendations, but no news yet.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Larry Bowen"
>>
>>
>> << I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am
>> confused about this drain wire. I found the post below in
>> the archives that asks many of the same questions I have,
>> but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone know?
>> Larry Bowen>>
>>
>> 9/25/2003
>>
>> Hello Larry, The points 2, 3, and 4 in my posting were not
>> questions. They
>> were statements about how one can connect the strobes and
>> (wing tip) position
>> lights to the power supply in a Whelen installation. I threw in a few
>> rhetorical questions on items 1 and 5 as challenging items
>> and you are right, no one
>> has responded to those questions.
>>
>> But read my 5 items again (I'll copy them below). If you
>> still have any
>> questions about your installation either post your specific
>> questions or shoot me
>> an email direct.
>>
>> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116
>>
>> --------------PREVIOUS POST FOLLOWS
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> 6/29/2003
>>
>> Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this
>> horse a few more
>> lashes.
>>
>> 1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached
>> at both ends on
>> a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why?
>>
>> 2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from
>> Whelen the cable
>> already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one
>> on each end. These
>> connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire
>> connectors at the
>> strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the
>> middle and snaking
>> those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of
>> the strobe power
>> supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3
>> wire connectors
>> provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply.
>>
>> 3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire
>> should be connected
>> to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough
>> to do by leaving
>> the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and
>> install the 3 wire
>> connectors that plug into the power supply.
>>
>> 4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the
>> Whelen installed
>> connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire.
>> I suppose one could
>> cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield,
>> attach a short
>> wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that
>> short wire to some metal
>> part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both
>> puzzling and
>> unnecessary.
>>
>> 5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout
>> the skies
>> mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am
>> unaware of any need to
>> go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire
>> to the metal
>> light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me
>> different?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question |
> I currently own a mono headset and was given a mono intercom. However, I will
be upgrading to stereo components before my project is finished. The short
answer is - stereo. However, can I make it so that it will accept either type?
I have already printed out the web link mentioned above. I intend to build the
stereo version of the amp.
> Charlie
You can use a transfer jack such as Mouser pt# 502-13A for mono along with pt#
502-12B (stereo jack). The transfer jack shorts the right & left channels together
when you insert the plug. One caveat- if you plug a mono plug into the
stereo jack you will short one audio channel to ground. I'm installing the little
spring-loaded jack covers
(labeled with an "S") on the stereo jacks as a reminder to not do this. These
covers are Mouser pt# 502-515
I have an AutoCAD R14 drawing of my system using Microair 760 with Bob's Audio
Iso Amp that shows the connections, if interested. This stuff is not completely
connected & tested yet- maybe tonight?! 8
)
Also, be aware that due (I believe) to a part change in the evolution of the Iso
Amp, the D-sub receptacle pins 1-8 on Bob's drawing are reversed from the actual
as-built construction. Not sure if Bob has corrected this yet, but it's
easy to chase it down on the actual board (which I have to add is an ingenious
design and a pleasure to
build- THANKS Bob!)
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: King KX 145 push to talk |
>
>Hi all,
>
>Does any one have a wiring diagram for a King KX 145? If so, can you tell
>me which wire(s) is for the push to talk activation?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jeff
>
See http://216.55.140.222/Installation_Data/KX145_KI205.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | AEC server moving to new digs . . . |
Our server in San Diego will be pulling the plug and moving
to a new facility this evening. We expect the hardware change
to take about an hour but with a new IP address, it will take
as long as a day or two for everyone's DNS data base to be
updated.
Our old co-location host can't seem to produced a legible, logical
billing invoice . . . they have fine technical skills and
rather poor business skills. Our new host seems better at
both so we're going to give them a try. Expect a few potholes
in the data exchange highway for the next day or so.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
With my hairtigger reaction, I neatly downloaded "Fault Tree" at the behest
of some worthy on net - thinking I would be miles ahead while I had the
time.
Unfortunately, it came to pass that it was not the fault system
which the group would find useful. It now sits like Oomph in my hard disc
and I find no easy way to "uninstall" it.
Is there some knowledgeable guardian who might advise me how to dump
the megas for all time?
Regards, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors |
>
>hi all
>
>I have the amphenol connectors for my electric gyros but don't know how to
>attach wires to the amphenol connectors. Are the wires soldered or do I need
>some kind of female pin to attach to the wire then insert this female pin
>into the back of the connector.
>thanx for the help guys
Amphenol is a company that makes dozens of different
connectors . . . some of which are military or commercial
standards and also manufactured by dozens of other
companies. Many are available in either solder or crimped
pin styles, some connector families are available in both
styles and are interchangeable and intermateable.
You need to examine the connector in question and tell
us what numbers are stamped into the shell. Lacking such
easy identification, a digital photo would help in
advice as to it's use.
Are the pins in your connector already installed? If it's
a new connector and the pins are not loose in a bag with
other connector parts, then it's most likely a solder style
connector. Depending on how old your gyros are, they are
most likely one of these two styles:
http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/library/Mfgr_Data/M26482.pdf
http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/library/Mfgr_Data/Mil-C-5015.pdf
Modern gyros may have more exotic connectors which I can help
you identify if you can give me some markings or pictures.
Both connector styles cited above are available in solder and
crimp varieties . . . will need more data to tell you which
ones you have.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
>
>I'm looking for someplace on the web to stash them - if anyone has a
>suggestion, let me know. Preferably someplace that you don't have to join
>to access
> >
> >In a message dated 9/23/03 10:03:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >richard(at)riley.net writes:
> >
> > > Basically, the nose casting broke clean through, leaving the alt sitting
> > > quietly in the engine compartment.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Good Morning Richard,
> >
> >Since I am not smart enough to find the pictures, could you supply a bit
> more
> >detail?
> >
> >Did the break occur right at the pad, somewhere along the webs or all
> the way
> >back where the webs attach to the alternator housing itself?
> >
> >Were you able to discern any evidence of a pre-existing crack?
> >
> >That mount looks to be heck for stout!
> >
> >Amazing that it broke.
> >
> >Thanks for the warning.
> >
> >Happy Skies,
> >
> >Old Bob
> >AKA
> >Bob Siegfried
> >Ancient Aviator
The pictures can be viewed at:
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/SD-20A.jpg
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/SD-20B.jpg
PRELIMINARY investigation suggests that (1) there are
no casting flaws and (2) that in this particular case,
there was not a single crack but a series of three
independent failures for each of the three corners
that broke off . . . the 4th had been overstressed and
broke off with relatively low force bending applied with
pliers.
Let's be cautious with loose speculation . . . keep
in mind that thousands of these alternators are in
service over a service history of 9 years or better.
There have been only three casting failures reported
to B&C over this period of time.
There is a working hypothesis as to root cause
which will be developed and either confirmed or rejected.
This is a high priority investigation and the results
will be posted here and reported to the FAA as soon
as credible data are available.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aux Battery for All Electric Airplane (RV-7) |
Here is a potential location in an RV-7 for the aux battery for an all-electric
airplane. I am wiring this airplane IAW Bob's Z-14 (Fadec) schematic using a
7.2 a.h. Panasonic.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
Go to RV-7 Project, then Aux Batt Holder.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad major failure |
In a message dated 9/26/03 12:36:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> The pictures can be viewed at:
>
> http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/SD-20A.jpg
> http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/SD-20B.jpg
>
> PRELIMINARY investigation suggests that (1) there are
> no casting flaws and (2) that in this particular case,
> there was not a single crack but a series of three
> independent failures for each of the three corners
> that broke off . . . the 4th had been overstressed and
> broke off with relatively low force bending applied with
> pliers.
>
Good Afternoon Bob,
Thanks for posting those photographs.
I just checked my log book and find that I have enjoyed 1073.7 trouble free
hours since I installed my B&C SD-20 Alternator on June 9, 1999.
I did go look mine over carefully after viewing the photograph. Everything
looks perfect.
I realize it is difficult to tell from photos, but the failures appear to be
very similar to the failures that are occasionally found when the front
mounted, gear driven, alternators on the IO-520 and IO-550 Continental engines
are
improperly aligned and tightened.
I am certain that we will all be advised as to the suspected problem whenever
any information is developed.
Thanks again for letting us know where the failures occurred.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Silicone grease for crimp terminals ? |
Hi Bob and all,
Seen on a French homebuilt list someone advise to grease the end of the wire
before crimping. He says they use this method in the power line business
with screw terminals.
I have the feeling this could be a "false good idea".
What's your opinion ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:You Are In Luck |
Just bought the book Avionics Installation Handbook, Horan. Looking at the
pinout the tabs on the long P401 are numbered from L to R: R being the end at
the ant. connector, and are numbered 1 thru 22. The shorter one is P301 and the
pins are numbered FROM the R to L, with number 1 tab being nearest the ant
connector. Here you go: +14V power input=21, +14V A/C power in=3, 4ohm spkr
out=19, 500ohm aux in=13, 14,15 and 16, 500ohm phone out #1=17, 500ohm phone out
#2=18, 500ohm phone out(no further designation given)=12, A/C switched power
out=4( note is made here saying "jumper 4 to 21"), ant shield=9and 11,
Insttrument dimmer=1 and 2( here there is another note made:" for 14V, 1 to ground,
2
to dimmer, mike audio intercom=6, mike audio=5, mike key intercom=8, mike
key=7, Power Ground=22, rack ground=20, and, finally, RCVR (nav/com)antenna=10.
Hope it helps. Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Silicone grease for crimp terminals ? |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>Seen on a French homebuilt list someone advise to grease the end of the wire
>before crimping. He says they use this method in the power line business
>with screw terminals.
>
>I have the feeling this could be a "false good idea".
>What's your opinion ?
can't imagine why anyone would want to do this with
a crimped terminal . . . a properly installed
crimp is gas-tight . . . anything in the joint would
be extruded out.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors |
Mike: If the pins are not already in the connectors ( depends where you got
it) then it didn't come with them and you can contact lot of supply houses to
get them. I can't remember if you put the wires thru the connector holes
BEFORE you solder them but that is usually seen by a little look at the thing.
By
the way, if they are already in there then sometimes it's a bear to get them
out intact....don't have any five pin Amp126-223 or equiv. do you? Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Silicone grease for crimp terminals ? |
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >Seen on a French homebuilt list someone advise to grease the end of the
wire
> >before crimping.
...............
> can't imagine why anyone would want to do this with
> a crimped terminal . . . a properly installed
> crimp is gas-tight . . . anything in the joint would
> be extruded out.
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Silicone grease for crimp terminals ? |
---Well maybe the joint is gas tight and maybe it's almost gas tight. Maybe
it's gas tight exactly under the crimp. Silicone grease would prevent the
intrusion of air and moisture and other bad stuff that gradually damages the
connection.
What's not to like? Do it!
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Silicone grease for crimp terminals ? |
Are you sure it is not the compound electricians use when crimping copper
terminals to Aluminum wire?
>
>
> ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >Seen on a French homebuilt list someone advise to grease the end of the wire
> >before crimping. He says they use this method in the power line business
> >with screw terminals.
> >
> >I have the feeling this could be a "false good idea".
> >What's your opinion ?
>
> can't imagine why anyone would want to do this with
> a crimped terminal . . . a properly installed
> crimp is gas-tight . . . anything in the joint would
> be extruded out.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Connecting Whelen Strobes |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<<.........skip......Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove all exposed
shield foil.
Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector.
this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply
terminal and bolt to base.....skip......>>
9/26/2003
Hello Bob, Thanks for your clarifications and many good words on this
subject. But I just saw this nearly dead horses's ear twitch so I'm going to give
it
another lash of the whip.
What you describe above can be done, but it is a bit troublesome. Here is
why: As I decribed earlier, the Whelen strobe connecting cable comes with three
wire connectors that mate with the light end connectors already installed on
each end of the cable. No access to the drain wire is provided.
In order to do what you describe above at the light end one would have to:
1) Cut off the already installed connectors.
2) Strip cable IAW your instructions.
3) Cut wires IAW your instructions.
4) Acquire two new AMP 3 wire connectors of the right configuration (From?) .
Or alternatively remove the AMP pins or sockets (I forget which and my stuff
is out at the hangar) from the old connectors (Tool?).
5) Acquire six new pins or sockets. (From ? In what quantities?)
6) Strip inner wires as required.
7) Crimp those six pins or sockets on the inner wires.
8) Insert the pins or sockets in the right position in the AMP 3 wire
connectors. (Can be / has been screwed up by builders on the power supply end of
the
wire so also could be done on the light end of the wire. Can result in the
need to return the power supply to Whelen for repair).
9) Connect the newly installed connectors to the matching connectors on the
lights and hook up the 6 inches of drain wire as desired.
All very doable, but as I said a bit troublesome. If somebody really wants to
do this and needs help identifying the proper Amp three wire sockets and
associated pins or sockets to be used, just speak up and I'll bring my stuff home
from the hangar and put the needed info on the list.
One can buy the needed materials from Terminal Town in itsy bitsy quantities,
but the shipping will probably cost multiple times the cost of the materials
for this specific job.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Connecting Whelen Strobes |
I did exactly what you outlined below, using crimp knife terminals for
the installation of the light/strobe in the rudder. When the rudder is
removed for paint or maint., I'll be able to fish the wires out of the
bottom. The std plug was too big to do so. It wasn't a big deal....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com [mailto:BAKEROCB(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:42 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Whelen Strobes
>
>
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> <<.........skip......Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove
> all exposed
> shield foil.
> Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector.
> this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply
> terminal and bolt to base.....skip......>>
>
> 9/26/2003
>
> Hello Bob, Thanks for your clarifications and many good words on this
> subject. But I just saw this nearly dead horses's ear twitch
> so I'm going to give it
> another lash of the whip.
>
> What you describe above can be done, but it is a bit
> troublesome. Here is
> why: As I decribed earlier, the Whelen strobe connecting
> cable comes with three
> wire connectors that mate with the light end connectors
> already installed on
> each end of the cable. No access to the drain wire is provided.
>
> In order to do what you describe above at the light end one
> would have to:
>
> 1) Cut off the already installed connectors.
>
> 2) Strip cable IAW your instructions.
>
> 3) Cut wires IAW your instructions.
>
> 4) Acquire two new AMP 3 wire connectors of the right
> configuration (From?) .
> Or alternatively remove the AMP pins or sockets (I forget
> which and my stuff
> is out at the hangar) from the old connectors (Tool?).
>
> 5) Acquire six new pins or sockets. (From ? In what quantities?)
>
> 6) Strip inner wires as required.
>
> 7) Crimp those six pins or sockets on the inner wires.
>
> 8) Insert the pins or sockets in the right position in the AMP 3 wire
> connectors. (Can be / has been screwed up by builders on the
> power supply end of the
> wire so also could be done on the light end of the wire. Can
> result in the
> need to return the power supply to Whelen for repair).
>
> 9) Connect the newly installed connectors to the matching
> connectors on the
> lights and hook up the 6 inches of drain wire as desired.
>
> All very doable, but as I said a bit troublesome. If somebody
> really wants to
> do this and needs help identifying the proper Amp three wire
> sockets and
> associated pins or sockets to be used, just speak up and I'll
> bring my stuff home
> from the hangar and put the needed info on the list.
>
> One can buy the needed materials from Terminal Town in itsy
> bitsy quantities,
> but the shipping will probably cost multiple times the cost
> of the materials
> for this specific job.
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Server is up in new digs . . . |
Our server is back on the air at 69.63.197.134
It will take awhile for the domain name servers to tie
the IP address to aeroelectric.com but the changes
have been registered and things should be back to
better than normal by Sunday. In the mean time,
if you need anything from the site, use the IP address
above . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Wiring |
Listers
I have obtained an almost new Nipon Denzo alternator off a Toyota which I intend
fitting to a Lyco320 In my RV9.
I have a couple of questions. Firstly I assume it's internally regulated although
it has a 3 wire socket, what are the 3 connections for and is a mating plug
readily available. Van's sell one that looks as if fits.
Secondly it is currently fitted with a flat belt pulley which I need to change
this to a V belt. I seem to recall Bob Avery used to sell a larger dia pulley,
is this worth considering and if not could anyone direct me to source of standard
sized pulleys.
Thanks for your help.
Neil Henderson RV9-A n/r Aylesbury UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | King KX 145 push to talk |
Jeff,
According to the KK-145 Installation Manual the "Mic Key-Comm" is connected
to pin 7 of the P401 connector. Viewed from the rear, P401 is the top
connector and the pins are numbered from the right starting with pin 1.
Just as a double check, your receive coax should be connected to pins 9-11
of P401. I tried to scan the schematic to send to you but the manual is so
old that it took maximum resolution to get a readable copy. With that, the
file was 14Mb which is too big for e-mail.
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Deuchar
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KX 145 push to talk
Hi all,
Does any one have a wiring diagram for a King KX 145? If so, can you tell
me which wire(s) is for the push to talk activation?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Voltage Stability Problems |
Bob,
I am using a generic Ford regulator and I am having problems with voltage
instability. If I connect the field terminal on the regulator (A and S)
directly to the buss terminal of the master contactor, the voltage becomes
stable. I tried connecting the field terminal to several points in the
circuit between the master contactor and the regulator. It seems that the
further downstream from the master contactor that I make the connection the
higher the resulting system voltage. The instability seems to be associated
with the circuit breaker ( I am using OV circuitry per the Aeroelectric
Connection). I have installed a new voltage regulator and tried two
different circuit breakers without improvement. My questions are:
1. Is the "S" terminal of the regulator the "sense" input? If so could I
connect this terminal permanently, thru a fuselink, to the buss terminal of
the master contactor?
2. Why would the circuit breaker cause instability? The two that I tried
are Klixon 5 AMP breakers. Both show .6 OHM resistance. I plan to buy
another breaker in case I have two bad ones.
3. What is a acceptable system voltage? When the field wire is connected
directly to the buss terminal of the master contactor, the system voltage is
14.4 and stable. When connected to the buss side of the breaker, the system
voltage is 14.7. When connected to the regulator side of the breaker, the
system voltage is 14.9 to 15.3 and is unstable.
Any help will be appreciated, as always.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 235 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Fault Tree+ service |
I sent out the message below. I just wanted to acknowledge Fault Tree's
Joe Belland
Technical Support, Isograph Direct
(949) 798-5607
who patiently pointed out the Windows path to uninstalling his program (to
someone who should have known).
That's diligent salesmanship.
Ferg Kyle
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fault tree
With my hairtigger reaction, I neatly downloaded "Fault Tree" at the behest
of some worthy on net - thinking I would be miles ahead while I had the
time.
Unfortunately, it came to pass that it was not the fault system
which the group would find useful. It now sits like Oomph in my hard disc
and I find no easy way to "uninstall" it.
Is there some knowledgeable guardian who might advise me how to dump
the megas for all time?
Regards, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Richard Riley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Richard Riley
Subject: B&C Backup Alternator Failure
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/richard@riley.net.09.27.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: less expensive power supply with |
Aeroflash heads
Mark....thanks for your interesting post. I saved your mail with the intent
of researching the references you cite at the RV archives. But I can't find
anything. I expect it's not the RV-8 list that I know about, but some
other. I need this info since I'm doing my strobe research now. Could you
point me where I can read everything you refer to?
Thanks
Neil
At 02:17 PM 9/5/03, you wrote:
>
>
>Guys, I did quite a bit of research before getting the XPak 904 and
>documented it in nauseating detail in the RV List archives, search for
>"cometflash on a beer budget". There were 2 or 3 posts with this subject
>line which will probably answer all your questions and some you haven't
>thought of yet : ) No reason to say it all over again here, but a few
>points of interest:
>
>You're correct that the Aeroflash bulbs cannot handle the output of the
>904....based on their specs it would burn them up pretty fast. Go with
>Whelen heads...I got 'em cheap at a salvage yard (strobes usually survive
>airplane accidents, so they have lots laying around).
>
>Yes these commercial power supplies have lots of neato strobe patterns but
>not all of them are legal for aircraft use. The regs spell out the
>acceptable flash rates (and I quoted them in the aformentioned archived
>material). If I recall correctly, the Xpak 904's "low power" mode had an
>unacceptably high flash rate so I would not use it.
>
>As for reducing the power output when only two strobe heads are installed,
>this depends on how you configure it. The 904 *can be* configured for
>full output meant for 4 strobes into only two strobes, which is the beauty
>of it, because the Whelen heads can handle this amount of energy (it's the
>same as what they get from Whelen's top of the line power supply, the
>HDA-CF Cometflash system).
>
>If you get a different power supply, you're on your own for making sure it
>meets the requirements and is compatible with the heads you're driving for
>power, flash rate, etc. NOVA has excellent customer support and the
>archived stuff I wrote a couple years ago is based on lengthy discussions
>with Eugene Able at NOVA.
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D in painting hell...
>
>From: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads
>
>
>Just got off the phone with Nova's tech guy and he pulled up the Aeroflash
>strobe
>specs and indeed the 90 watt X-Pac looks like it's a little hot for these.
>
>
>Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck here
>is their
>EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and should fire up the
>10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding
>Whelans. Plus
>you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
>
>It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA reqs means 20
>joules
>*total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the Aeroflashes get
>away with double 10 jouled ones??
>
>All said and done it's about $305 for this setup which is a lot nicer than
>$772
>for the Whelans and $430 for the Aeroflashes (with their supply).
>
>Don't want to get caught in the TANSTAAFL so what am I missing here?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Joa
>
>The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads |
The archives of the list that started it all: The RV-List
http://www.matronics.com/searching/
(I'm using the 904 too.)
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Clayton [mailto:harvey4(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 9:16 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: less expensive power supply
> with Aeroflash heads
>
>
> -->
>
> Mark....thanks for your interesting post. I saved your mail
> with the intent
> of researching the references you cite at the RV archives.
> But I can't find
> anything. I expect it's not the RV-8 list that I know about, but some
> other. I need this info since I'm doing my strobe research
> now. Could you
> point me where I can read everything you refer to?
>
> Thanks
> Neil
>
>
> At 02:17 PM 9/5/03, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Guys, I did quite a bit of research before getting the XPak 904 and
> >documented it in nauseating detail in the RV List archives,
> search for
> >"cometflash on a beer budget". There were 2 or 3 posts with
> this subject
> >line which will probably answer all your questions and some
> you haven't
> >thought of yet : ) No reason to say it all over again here,
> but a few
> >points of interest:
> >
> >You're correct that the Aeroflash bulbs cannot handle the
> output of the
> >904....based on their specs it would burn them up pretty
> fast. Go with
> >Whelen heads...I got 'em cheap at a salvage yard (strobes
> usually survive
> >airplane accidents, so they have lots laying around).
> >
> >Yes these commercial power supplies have lots of neato
> strobe patterns
> >but
> >not all of them are legal for aircraft use. The regs spell out the
> >acceptable flash rates (and I quoted them in the
> aformentioned archived
> >material). If I recall correctly, the Xpak 904's "low
> power" mode had an
> >unacceptably high flash rate so I would not use it.
> >
> >As for reducing the power output when only two strobe heads are
> >installed,
> >this depends on how you configure it. The 904 *can be*
> configured for
> >full output meant for 4 strobes into only two strobes, which
> is the beauty
> >of it, because the Whelen heads can handle this amount of
> energy (it's the
> >same as what they get from Whelen's top of the line power
> supply, the
> >HDA-CF Cometflash system).
> >
> >If you get a different power supply, you're on your own for
> making sure
> >it
> >meets the requirements and is compatible with the heads
> you're driving for
> >power, flash rate, etc. NOVA has excellent customer support and the
> >archived stuff I wrote a couple years ago is based on
> lengthy discussions
> >with Eugene Able at NOVA.
> >
> >--Mark Navratil
> >Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> >RV-8A N2D in painting hell...
> >
> >From: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com>
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: less expensive power supply with
> Aeroflash
> >heads
> >
> >-->
> >
> >Just got off the phone with Nova's tech guy and he pulled up the
> >Aeroflash
> >strobe
> >specs and indeed the 90 watt X-Pac looks like it's a little
> hot for these.
> >
> >
> >Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck
> >here
> >is their
> >EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and
> should fire up the
> >10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding
> >Whelans. Plus
> >you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
> >
> >It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA
> reqs means
> >20
> >joules
> >*total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the
> Aeroflashes get
> >away with double 10 jouled ones??
> >
> >All said and done it's about $305 for this setup which is a
> lot nicer
> >than
> >$772
> >for the Whelans and $430 for the Aeroflashes (with their supply).
> >
> >Don't want to get caught in the TANSTAAFL so what am I missing here?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Joa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring |
Spruce sells a 4", "V" pulley. Page 245, $48.95.
Check the ID
Neil
At 03:47 AM 9/27/03, you wrote:
>
>
>Listers
>
>I have obtained an almost new Nipon Denzo alternator off a Toyota which I
>intend fitting to a Lyco320 In my RV9.
>I have a couple of questions. Firstly I assume it's internally regulated
>although it has a 3 wire socket, what are the 3 connections for and is a
>mating plug readily available. Van's sell one that looks as if fits.
>Secondly it is currently fitted with a flat belt pulley which I need to
>change this to a V belt. I seem to recall Bob Avery used to sell a larger
>dia pulley, is this worth considering and if not could anyone direct me to
>source of standard sized pulleys.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Neil Henderson RV9-A n/r Aylesbury UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Dielectric grease recommendations |
Group, could someone shed a little light on what kind of grease to use for
connections..This from my Bellanca Viking group, discussing the use of
grease on the starter supply wiring connections from the group:
--- In VikingChat(at)yahoogroups.com, "David A. Leonard"
<dleonar1@m...> wrote:
> ....Now you are halfway there. Find the ground wire from the
engine back to the mount, remove and clean both ends of the ground
wire or strap, grease and securely re-connect.
ir
>Dave -- I assume you mean generic grease, like wheel bearing
>grease. I remember learning somewhere that silicone grease is
>better for this purpose. Can you or someone else confirm or dispute
>this call?
I wrote:
You are correct sir!
The grease I use comes from NAPA, it is produced(or labeled) by Echlin, who
is an aftermarket supplier of electrical components. The label suggests
using it on Ford high tension ignition harness components.. in the
distributor cap, under the plug wire boots.
You can also find it called "di-electric" grease.
I am not sure if it is exactly the right stuff to use..I think that the
function is to exclude air and moisture to stop corrosion from occurring.
I have honestly used all kinds of different greases on battery terminals
and ligh bulb bases over the years, with good results.
I'll ask the
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2003-09-27.html
guys, no doubt these gurus will have an informed opinion. They refer to
connections properly made as being "gas-tight".
David Leonard N77FE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dielectric grease recommendations |
>
>
>
>Group, could someone shed a little light on what kind of grease to use for
>connections..This from my Bellanca Viking group, discussing the use of
>grease on the starter supply wiring connections from the group:
>
>--- In VikingChat(at)yahoogroups.com, "David A. Leonard"
><dleonar1@m...> wrote:
My personal favorite for such applications is
Dow Corning DC-4 . . . a silicon based grease
with the consistency of peanut butter.
See:
http://www.skygeek.com/dowcordc4eli.html
http://www.seabird.com/pdf_documents/msds_sheets/dc4.pdf
Prices for this stuff can be all over the map. Shop
around . . . A tube will last you a lifetime. My
6 oz. tube is 40 years old and only half gone.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring |
Hello Neil,
Keep in mind that the clearance between the cowling and the larger diameter
pulleys can be a nuisance factor.
Four inch would be a bit too large on my setup for an O360. On your O320
your distance might vary.
There is a lot of info in the archives re-larger pulleys and alternator
speed. I think the main concern would be too low voltage output at idle.
Jim in Kelowna
.----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Clayton" <harvey4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Wiring
>
> Spruce sells a 4", "V" pulley. Page 245, $48.95.
> Check the ID
> Neil
>
>
> At 03:47 AM 9/27/03, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Listers
> >
> >I have obtained an almost new Nipon Denzo alternator off a Toyota which I
> >intend fitting to a Lyco320 In my RV9.
> >I have a couple of questions. Firstly I assume it's internally regulated
> >although it has a 3 wire socket, what are the 3 connections for and is a
> >mating plug readily available. Van's sell one that looks as if fits.
> >Secondly it is currently fitted with a flat belt pulley which I need to
> >change this to a V belt. I seem to recall Bob Avery used to sell a larger
> >dia pulley, is this worth considering and if not could anyone direct me
to
> >source of standard sized pulleys.
> >
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >Neil Henderson RV9-A n/r Aylesbury UK
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring |
>
>Spruce sells a 4", "V" pulley. Page 245, $48.95.
>Check the ID
>Neil
I'd look for a relatively small pulley. Have
your alternator's rotor balanced and spin it fast.
One of the big advantages of an alternator is
an ability to get useful output power at ramp and
taxi engine speeds.
A number of builders have been advised to increase
pulley size to slow it down thus improving on bearing
life . . . indeed this will probably make a poorly
balanced rotor, or marginal bearings last longer
but . . .
B&C has been selling the ND alternators for
about 20 years. They get balanced and they leave
the factory with a small pulley. Wearout rates
on these machines are phenomenally low while
performance on the ground is as good as it gets.
There are some OBAM aircraft that get into
cowl clearance issues with larger pulleys . . .
watch out for this too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil alarm design |
Hi Bob and all,
Could anyone help me to design a simple circuit ? The idea is to turn on an
idiot light every time the voltage from an oil pressure sensor is below a
certain (ajustable) threshold.
The sender output is 0.5 to 4.5 volts.
Digging around I scribbled something with an op amp and a 2N4400 transistor,
but I'm not sure about which wire goes to which pin.
Any advice or schematics appreciated.
Thank you
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dielectric grease recommendations |
I'm new to the forum. I just got some dielectric grease off Ebay--3 tubes (
big ones) for about $20. I'm curious too can bearing grease work? The idea
must have started some time ago with an old-timer and I JUST BET that the type
actually isn't all that important. (?????) Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rg 142 or 400, which is best |
I understand FAA requires 142 or 400 coax now, whichis "best", thanks, Skip
Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rg 142 or 400, which is best |
>
>I understand FAA requires 142 or 400 coax now, whichis "best", thanks, Skip
>Simpson
The FAA doesn't require any particular coaxial cable, there
are only general requirements as to what materials are
allowed on board in the tireless quest for ever improved
safety. There are lots of coaxes that would meet these
requirements. Having said that, RG400 and RG142 are both
members of a family of modern coaxial cables and either
is fine. RG400 has a stranded center conductor, RG142 has
a solid center conductor. The choice is yours.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring |
>
>
>Listers
>
>I have obtained an almost new Nipon Denzo alternator off a Toyota which I
>intend fitting to a Lyco320 In my RV9.
>I have a couple of questions. Firstly I assume it's internally regulated
>although it has a 3 wire socket, what are the 3 connections for and is a
>mating plug readily available. Van's sell one that looks as if fits.
You only need to attach to one of the three terminals
and a 1/4" faston terminal works good. Are there any
labels adjacent to the terminals?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dielectric grease recommendations |
Years ago my dad and I used to fix Stryker bone tools that would gum up in
sterilization. Stryker sold fancy grease but it would rapidly get gummy.
While searching for the right grease, a Mobil lubrication engineer said,
"Did you ever consider what a miracle wheel-bearing grease is? Mobil put
almost as much money into wheel-bearing grease research as the Manhattan
Project put into the A-bomb. Now you can buy a can for a couple of bucks.
Now THAT'S a miracle."
We bought the grease. Problem solved and a valuable lesson learned.
For the grease-before-crimp: Almost ANYTHING will do. Linseed oil...pine
tar...molasses...loctite.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, Pictures Link has Changed |
>
>
> >
> >I'm looking for someplace on the web to stash them - if anyone has a
> >suggestion, let me know. Preferably someplace that you don't have to join
> >to access
>
>
> The pictures can be viewed at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-20A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-20B.jpg
> PRELIMINARY investigation suggests that (1) there are
> no casting flaws and (2) that in this particular case,
> there was not a single crack but a series of three
> independent failures for each of the three corners
> that broke off . . . the 4th had been overstressed and
> broke off with relatively low force bending applied with
> pliers.
>
> Let's be cautious with loose speculation . . . keep
> in mind that thousands of these alternators are in
> service over a service history of 9 years or better.
> There have been only three casting failures reported
> to B&C over this period of time.
>
> There is a working hypothesis as to root cause
> which will be developed and either confirmed or rejected.
> This is a high priority investigation and the results
> will be posted here and reported to the FAA as soon
> as credible data are available.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
I'm not sure why it happens but on some links to my website,
Netscape captures the location as an IP based address
as opposed to a domain name based address. Hence, may
of the links I've published over the last two years have
the IP address 216.55.140.222 and a link might look like:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
When you encounter such a reference in the archives,
you can simply substitute the characters "aeroelectric.com"
for the string "216.55.140.222" and it should take you
to the new server.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dielectric grease recommendations |
In a message dated 9/28/03 1:08:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> My personal favorite for such applications is
> Dow Corning DC-4 . . . a silicon based grease
> with the consistency of peanut butter.
>
> Prices for this stuff can be all over the map. Shop
> around . . . A tube will last you a lifetime. My
> 6 oz. tube is 40 years old and only half gone.
>
Try a bearing supply house. Their price will probably be better than
the electrical supply places or aviation. Use to sell the stuff before I
retired.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mstewart(at)qa.butler.com |
| Subject: | Garmin 430 wiring problem |
I am installing my Garmin 430. It was pre-wired, meaning connectors are
wired with wires hanging out and labeled. I can not find any wires labled
gps data out. I have d/l the pinouts from AE's site and none of the
connectors seems to have this designation. I am trying to drive my Navaid
with the 430 gps. I surely hope that this thing has a gps data out. Do they
call it something different?
Thanks
Mike Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sower <canarder(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring |
I had the same problem - serpentine pulley on the alternator, V-belt in the
airplane. I walked into the nearest alternator rebuild shop and walked out with
a pulley for $15. Could have gotten a bigger one if I'd waited for them to order
it.
Works for me .... Jim S.
Neil Clayton wrote:
>
> Spruce sells a 4", "V" pulley. Page 245, $48.95.
> Check the ID
> Neil
>
> At 03:47 AM 9/27/03, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Listers
> >
> >I have obtained an almost new Nipon Denzo alternator off a Toyota which I
> >intend fitting to a Lyco320 In my RV9.
> >I have a couple of questions. Firstly I assume it's internally regulated
> >although it has a 3 wire socket, what are the 3 connections for and is a
> >mating plug readily available. Van's sell one that looks as if fits.
> >Secondly it is currently fitted with a flat belt pulley which I need to
> >change this to a V belt. I seem to recall Bob Avery used to sell a larger
> >dia pulley, is this worth considering and if not could anyone direct me to
> >source of standard sized pulleys.
> >
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >Neil Henderson RV9-A n/r Aylesbury UK
> >
> >
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dielectric grease recommendations |
Hi David,
Various companies package a dielectric Grease. the tube I have in front of
me is a 'Pematex' product that I bought at a local auto supply outlet.It is
labeled "Dielectric Tune-up Grease". The No. 22064 is at the bottom of the
tube
It is commonly used on spark plug ceramics and wire boots to stop them from
bonding in place as well as water proofing them.
This grease has a high content of silicone that will keep water and
contaminants away very effectively. It will not easily melt and run off or
evaporate.
Although is referred to as grease, it is not intended as a mechanical
assembly lubricant or bearing grease.
I used it at all the ground wire junctions etc.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dielectric grease recommendations
>
>
> Group, could someone shed a little light on what kind of grease to use for
> connections..This from my Bellanca Viking group, discussing the use of
> grease on the starter supply wiring connections from the group:
>
> --- In VikingChat(at)yahoogroups.com, "David A. Leonard"
> <dleonar1@m...> wrote:
>
> > ....Now you are halfway there. Find the ground wire from the
> engine back to the mount, remove and clean both ends of the ground
> wire or strap, grease and securely re-connect.
> ir
>
> >Dave -- I assume you mean generic grease, like wheel bearing
> >grease. I remember learning somewhere that silicone grease is
> >better for this purpose. Can you or someone else confirm or dispute
> >this call?
>
> I wrote:
>
> You are correct sir!
>
> The grease I use comes from NAPA, it is produced(or labeled) by Echlin,
who
> is an aftermarket supplier of electrical components. The label suggests
> using it on Ford high tension ignition harness components.. in the
> distributor cap, under the plug wire boots.
>
> You can also find it called "di-electric" grease.
>
> I am not sure if it is exactly the right stuff to use..I think that the
> function is to exclude air and moisture to stop corrosion from occurring.
>
> I have honestly used all kinds of different greases on battery terminals
> and ligh bulb bases over the years, with good results.
>
> I'll ask the
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2003-09-27.html
> guys, no doubt these gurus will have an informed opinion. They refer to
> connections properly made as being "gas-tight".
>
>
> David Leonard N77FE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Pulley Size |
>Hi Bob....something you wrote regarding alternator pulley sizes caused me
>the stop and think;
>
>My ND alternator puts out something like 70A at 10,000 revs. There's no
>way I'd ever need that output for my Cozy, so I thought I'd reduce the RPM
>by sizing up the pulley and maybe save the bearing life a little into the
>bargain. And philosophically, I had an aversion to anything rotating at
>10k rev under my hood.
The B&C ND alternators have always run well with a rather
small pulley . . . I think it's about 2.5" diam. Belt
driven from the starter ring gear on a Lyc, they cruise
routinely at over 10K . . . given the way rotors are
constructed (forged) combined with their small diameter
makes 10K a no-big-deal.
>But your post made me wonder if there's some low RMP cut off, and that I
>might not get power from the alternator during taxi. I had stupidly
>assumed the output is linear all the way down.
Alternators have two critical speed characteristics.
Minimum speed for regulation: The RPM at which the
alternator just puts out 14 volts but at zero current.
Minimum speed for full output: The RPM at which the
alternator will deliver rated output current at max
operating temperature. Check out the drawing at
http://aeroelectric.com/temp/80A_OutCurve.gif
Here we see that minimum speed for regulation is
about 1000 rpm for this exemplar 80A machine.
Minimum speed for full output is about 6000
rpm. This would be typical of most automotive
machines.
Bottom line is that if you have low voltage
warning light and the light never comes on, your
alternator is carrying system loads of the moment
irrespective of its ratings or pulley size.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "Plenum" rated CAT5 cable |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
Bob, I'd be interested in your impression of "plenum" rated CATn cables (5 and
6). I used to install miles of this stuff at a previous job, and it seems it had
similar properties to what people look for in Tefzel. Obviously, I'm talking
about signal wires here, not power carriers, mainly for things like carrying
trim signals, indicator light runs, etc.
Upon some reinvestigation I've found that the better quality stuff has teflon for
its core insulation and some unspecified, but not PVC outer jacket. (It's usually
listed as a flame-retardant polymer designed to char, rather than melting,
not carry a flame from one space to another (hence its use in plenums) and
also not produce toxic fumes (likewise)).
I have a few areas where it would be nice to be able to install more than the 2-3
conductor multi-conductor stuff usually available, such as through B&C or ACSpruce.
Moreover, I also happen to have a few hundred feet left over, so if it's
at all suitable / acceptable, I'd like to use it up where I can.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
>
>I am installing my Garmin 430. It was pre-wired, meaning connectors are
>wired with wires hanging out and labeled. I can not find any wires labled
>gps data out. I have d/l the pinouts from AE's site and none of the
>connectors seems to have this designation. I am trying to drive my Navaid
>with the 430 gps. I surely hope that this thing has a gps data out. Do they
>call it something different?
>Thanks
>Mike Stewart
shuckypoo . . . I did a 430 installation in the AGATE Bonanza
a a couple of years ago and had a copy of the complete installation
manual from Garmin. Dug around in the archives and couldn't put
my hands on it. I probably gave it back to the folks at RAC.
Sorry.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors (Hey Mike!!!) |
>
>
> >
> >hi all
> >
> >I have the amphenol connectors for my electric gyros but don't know how to
> >attach wires to the amphenol connectors. Are the wires soldered or do I need
> >some kind of female pin to attach to the wire then insert this female pin
> >into the back of the connector.
> >thanx for the help guys
Mike, did you see my post on this topic. Can you give me some
numbers off your connector(s) and/or photos?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, Pictures L |
ink has Changed
Bob,
Can you tell us what the working hypothesis is as to the root cause?
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, Pictures
Link has Changed
>
>
> >
> >I'm looking for someplace on the web to stash them - if anyone has a
> >suggestion, let me know. Preferably someplace that you don't have to
join
> >to access
>
>
> The pictures can be viewed at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-20A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/SD-20B.jpg
> PRELIMINARY investigation suggests that (1) there are
> no casting flaws and (2) that in this particular case,
> there was not a single crack but a series of three
> independent failures for each of the three corners
> that broke off . . . the 4th had been overstressed and
> broke off with relatively low force bending applied with
> pliers.
>
> Let's be cautious with loose speculation . . . keep
> in mind that thousands of these alternators are in
> service over a service history of 9 years or better.
> There have been only three casting failures reported
> to B&C over this period of time.
>
> There is a working hypothesis as to root cause
> which will be developed and either confirmed or rejected.
> This is a high priority investigation and the results
> will be posted here and reported to the FAA as soon
> as credible data are available.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, |
Pictures L ink has Changed
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Can you tell us what the working hypothesis is as to the root cause?
>
>Regards, George
sure . . . this wasn't a single crack event . . . each of
the four mounting ears was independently overstressed. Each
parted the rest of the alternator individually. The
initial examination of the fractures shows no casting flaws.
The remaining ear was close to failure. It broke off with
a pair of pliers and hand-generated bending stresses.
We think the bolts were tightened down too tight and gasket
thickness was reduced enough to bow the flange and put an
abnormal bending load on the ears.
If it were my airplane, I'd pitch the paper gasket and
use a suitable brush-on gasket replacement material that
would extrude out and avoid bending loads by getting the
two machined flats to lay right against each other.
This is only failure of the type for this product for
several thousand installations. Although this event
transpired on an experimental airplane, it's the same
alternator as the STC/PMA installations . . . they're
going to do a full investigation and report for the FAA.
We'll post the final analysis results here on the AEList.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Plenum" rated CAT5 cable |
>
>
>Bob, I'd be interested in your impression of "plenum" rated CATn cables (5
>and 6). I used to install miles of this stuff at a previous job, and it
>seems it had similar properties to what people look for in Tefzel.
>Obviously, I'm talking about signal wires here, not power carriers, mainly
>for things like carrying trim signals, indicator light runs, etc.
>
>Upon some reinvestigation I've found that the better quality stuff has
>teflon for its core insulation and some unspecified, but not PVC outer
>jacket. (It's usually listed as a flame-retardant polymer designed to
>char, rather than melting, not carry a flame from one space to another
>(hence its use in plenums) and also not produce toxic fumes (likewise)).
>
>I have a few areas where it would be nice to be able to install more than
>the 2-3 conductor multi-conductor stuff usually available, such as through
>B&C or ACSpruce. Moreover, I also happen to have a few hundred feet left
>over, so if it's at all suitable / acceptable, I'd like to use it up where
>I can.
Not too worried about insulation . . . that's just really
small, single strand wire. I think I'd vote for 19-strand,
22AWG, over 26AWG cat-5 cable strands any day.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "Plenum" rated CAT5 cable |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
> Not too worried about insulation . . . that's just really
> small, single strand wire. I think I'd vote for 19-strand,
> 22AWG, over 26AWG cat-5 cable strands any day.
I'm specifically referring to solid-core conductors here, as that's what I exclusively
ran for customers and thus it's what I happen to have to spare. This particular
cable is marked 24AWG, and I have no reason to believe it's mislabeled
despite having no micrometer to measure it with.
I neglected to mention that it's actually shielded (STP) as well. As I noted before,
shielded multi-conductor cabling is very difficult to find in Tefzel with
more than 3 conductors. This has 8, which lets me greatly simplify a particular
portion of my harness without sacrifice, as long as there isn't a safety sacrifice
involved.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
> shuckypoo . . . I did a 430 installation in the AGATE Bonanza
> a a couple of years ago and had a copy of the complete installation
> manual from Garmin. Dug around in the archives and couldn't put
> my hands on it. I probably gave it back to the folks at RAC.
> Sorry.
Hi Bob and Mike
Some months ago I succeeded in donwnloading the complete installation and
user manuals from the Garmin website. They seem to have changed their links
and the manuals seem no longer available.
At the moment my connection time is limited so I'm not able to forward it
right now, buy if you ask questions maybe I can be of some help.
What is a Navaid, and what kind of signal does it need ?
Regards
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument cutouts |
>
> Can anyone recommend a spacing for instruments, or make any other
suggestions
> for this?
>
Thanks for all the opinions on this -- I shouldn't be so impatient I suppose.
I'll hang fire for the moment. Difficult to do though, since I have a radio
harness that's itching to be installed...
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
Hello Gilles,
Navaid is a Autopilot and most probably needs GPS serial out data.
Werner (now flying my Star)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 430 wiring problem
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> > shuckypoo . . . I did a 430 installation in the AGATE Bonanza
> > a a couple of years ago and had a copy of the complete installation
> > manual from Garmin. Dug around in the archives and couldn't put
> > my hands on it. I probably gave it back to the folks at RAC.
> > Sorry.
>
> Hi Bob and Mike
>
> Some months ago I succeeded in donwnloading the complete installation and
> user manuals from the Garmin website. They seem to have changed their
links
> and the manuals seem no longer available.
>
> At the moment my connection time is limited so I'm not able to forward it
> right now, buy if you ask questions maybe I can be of some help.
> What is a Navaid, and what kind of signal does it need ?
>
> Regards
>
> Gilles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Oil alarm design |
The easier solution is to get an oil pressure switch and tee it in with your
oil pressure sender. This way you have a true back up system.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gilles.Thesee
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil alarm design
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Could anyone help me to design a simple circuit ? The idea is to turn on an
idiot light every time the voltage from an oil pressure sensor is below a
certain (ajustable) threshold.
The sender output is 0.5 to 4.5 volts.
Digging around I scribbled something with an op amp and a 2N4400 transistor,
but I'm not sure about which wire goes to which pin.
Any advice or schematics appreciated.
Thank you
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Michael" <MJones(at)hatch.ca> |
hi bob
got your post today, as only have email at work, cant due pics but will get
numbers tonight and send to you, i took the 3 apart on weekend however and
the terminals look like they take solder, but as i have nevr seen before
will see what you say
thanx
mike
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivorphillips" <ivor(at)ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
Hi Mike
i have sent you the garmin 400 installation manual, this should answer all
your questions,
regards
Ivor Phillips
europa xs
----- Original Message -----
From: <mstewart(at)qa.butler.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 430 wiring problem
>
> I am installing my Garmin 430. It was pre-wired, meaning connectors are
> wired with wires hanging out and labeled. I can not find any wires labled
> gps data out. I have d/l the pinouts from AE's site and none of the
> connectors seems to have this designation. I am trying to drive my Navaid
> with the 430 gps. I surely hope that this thing has a gps data out. Do
they
> call it something different?
> Thanks
> Mike Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
In a message dated 9/28/03 8:22:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mstewart(at)qa.butler.com writes:
> I am installing my Garmin 430. It was prewired, meaning connectors are
> wired with wires hanging out and labeled. I cannot find any wires labeled
> GPS data out. I have d/l the pinouts from AE's site and none of the
> connectors seems to have this designation. I am trying to drive my Navaid
> with the 430 GPS. I surely hope that this thing has a GPS data out. Do they
> call it something different?
> Thanks
> Mike Stewart
>
Mike,
You may want to also check on the compatibility of the two units. A friend
has a 430 and Navaid in his Velocity and found the Porcine Smart Coupler for the
Navaid wing leveler uses a data steam from hand held GPS units which is
different from that from the panel mount 430. Apparently that can be overcome but
does require modification.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | "Plenum" rated CAT5 cable |
>
>
> > Not too worried about insulation . . . that's just really
> > small, single strand wire. I think I'd vote for 19-strand,
> > 22AWG, over 26AWG cat-5 cable strands any day.
>
>I'm specifically referring to solid-core conductors here, as that's what I
>exclusively ran for customers and thus it's what I happen to have to
>spare. This particular cable is marked 24AWG, and I have no reason to
>believe it's mislabeled despite having no micrometer to measure it with.
>
>I neglected to mention that it's actually shielded (STP) as well. As I
>noted before, shielded multi-conductor cabling is very difficult to find
>in Tefzel with more than 3 conductors. This has 8, which lets me greatly
>simplify a particular portion of my harness without sacrifice, as long as
>there isn't a safety sacrifice involved.
Well, it IS an OBAM aircraft and you can use anything
you like to wire it up. I've seen airplanes at OSH
that used much worse. What systems are you wiring that
need so many shielded conductors wherein bundling them
all together in Cat-5 cable is useful to you?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 All Electric Airplane on a Budget |
m>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I have one specific question to the Z-13 setup with the SD-8 perm. magnet
>dynamo. I look at the section with the relay (?) that connects/disconnects
>the dynamo feed to the battery/battery bus. So far I believe to have
>learned that in order to close this contact/relay we need to apply power
>to the relay to generate the magnetic field that will close the main
>contactor. So far I have failed to understand how this contacter get's
>powered if no juice is left in the battery for whatever reason...
It doesn't. Even the SD-8 alternator needs some battery
on line to get it started.
It's a feature of the regulator design. A properly
maintained RG battery is the most reliable source of power
in your airplane. There is little value in planning
a system to accommodate the extremely rare occurrence
of an internal battery failure.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> > shuckypoo . . . I did a 430 installation in the AGATE Bonanza
> > a a couple of years ago and had a copy of the complete installation
> > manual from Garmin. Dug around in the archives and couldn't put
> > my hands on it. I probably gave it back to the folks at RAC.
> > Sorry.
>
>Hi Bob and Mike
>
>Some months ago I succeeded in donwnloading the complete installation and
>user manuals from the Garmin website. They seem to have changed their links
>and the manuals seem no longer available.
>
>At the moment my connection time is limited so I'm not able to forward it
>right now, buy if you ask questions maybe I can be of some help.
>What is a Navaid, and what kind of signal does it need ?
The last time I saw a Navaid wiring diagram, it used analog
CDI steering signals for radio aided navigation. I find the
following information on this topic on Nav-Aid's website:
http://navaid-devices.com/coupler2.htm
They're still an analog input autopilot. They've joined
forces with Porcine Associates who developed a coupler
that converts the digital output from hand held (and
most panel mounted) gps receivers to mimic a VOR receiver.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>hi bob
>
>got your post today, as only have email at work, cant due pics but will get
>numbers tonight and send to you, i took the 3 apart on weekend however and
>the terminals look like they take solder, but as i have nevr seen before
>will see what you say
>
>thanx
If the pins are already installed, then they do attach
to wires with solder. Crimp pins are loose and installed
on wires with proper tool before inserting them into
the connector. Are your connectors new or used?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors for gyro |
I got a RC Allen -25 electric gyro but it needs n Amphenol 123-223 five pin
plug: Does AO know where I can get one of these critters? I'm to the point of
thinking about setting up the pins in a pattern to match and the pot it with
structural epoxy. Geoff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, Pictures L |
ink has Changed
Bob,
We have a very robust shake table suitable for piston engine vibration
frequency test work.
If you want to try to try to deliberately re-create the over torque problem
we could probably run some vibration testing on it.
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, Pictures
L ink has Changed
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Can you tell us what the working hypothesis is as to the root cause?
>
>Regards, George
sure . . . this wasn't a single crack event . . . each of
the four mounting ears was independently overstressed. Each
parted the rest of the alternator individually. The
initial examination of the fractures shows no casting flaws.
The remaining ear was close to failure. It broke off with
a pair of pliers and hand-generated bending stresses.
We think the bolts were tightened down too tight and gasket
thickness was reduced enough to bow the flange and put an
abnormal bending load on the ears.
If it were my airplane, I'd pitch the paper gasket and
use a suitable brush-on gasket replacement material that
would extrude out and avoid bending loads by getting the
two machined flats to lay right against each other.
This is only failure of the type for this product for
several thousand installations. Although this event
transpired on an experimental airplane, it's the same
alternator as the STC/PMA installations . . . they're
going to do a full investigation and report for the FAA.
We'll post the final analysis results here on the AEList.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors for gyro |
Aircraft Spruce MS3116E8-4S $18.95.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: amphenol connectors for gyro
I got a RC Allen -25 electric gyro but it needs n Amphenol 123-223 five
pin
plug: Does AO know where I can get one of these critters? I'm to the
point of
thinking about setting up the pins in a pattern to match and the pot it
with
structural epoxy. Geoff.
==
==
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | alternator field cut-off |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
Hi all,
I'm rebuilding/rewiring some of the electrics on a
used Glasair that I bought, and in particular know that the
alternator field cut-off switch is not "right" at present.
It is currently sourced from the instrument panel
power switch (which is in turn sourced from the master
power switch), and is simply a cheap switch that looks like
it came from Radio Shack.
I'm thinking of rewiring this to use a 5A circuit breaker
in place of the cheap switch, and source it directly
from the master power switch, and mount it above the
low voltage warning light. My thoughts are that I can
pull the circuit breaker, and that effectively acts as a "switch".
Is this sound reasoning, or am I missing something critical
and there is a better way to do this?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."
-Anonymous
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Regulato |
>
> I am using a generic Ford regulator and I am having problems with voltage
> instability.
Much has been written about unstable voltage regulators in
Cessnas and Pipers on "rec.aviation.owning". Go to Google
Groups and do a keyword search for "pulsing ammeter".
Here is one post that I wrote:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N3E825B06
>If I connect the field terminal on the regulator (A and S)
> directly to the buss terminal of the master contactor, the voltage becomes
> stable. I tried connecting the field terminal to several points in the
> circuit between the master contactor and the regulator. It seems that the
> further downstream from the master contactor that I make the connection the
> higher the resulting system voltage. The instability seems to be associated
> with the circuit breaker ( I am using OV circuitry per the Aeroelectric
> Connection). I have installed a new voltage regulator and tried two
> different circuit breakers without improvement. My questions are:
>
> 1. Is the "S" terminal of the regulator the "sense" input? If so could I
> connect this terminal permanently, thru a fuselink, to the buss terminal of
> the master contactor?
Yes and no. The VR does "sense" the bus voltage thru this
terminal, but since the field current to the alternator (about
3A peak) also flows along this wire, then if there is any
resistance in this wire between the bus and the S terminal, then
the voltage the VR senses is reduced by the drop across the
upstream resistance. If the drop is more than a couple of tenths
of volts, then this will cause the instablility (positve
feedback). Even if it doesn't oscillate, then the drop will
confuse the VR causing it to overcharge the battery.
> 2. Why would the circuit breaker cause instability? The two that I tried
> are Klixon 5 AMP breakers. Both show .6 OHM resistance. I plan to buy
> another breaker in case I have two bad ones.
See above. 0.6 Ohms sounds high. My Piper has a 5A breaker in
this path without instability. The Cessna just has a series
switch with no breaker.
> 3. What is a acceptable system voltage? When the field wire is connected
> directly to the buss terminal of the master contactor, the system voltage is
> 14.4 and stable. When connected to the buss side of the breaker, the system
> voltage is 14.7. When connected to the regulator side of the breaker, the
> system voltage is 14.9 to 15.3 and is unstable.
If the battery is aft of the firewall, then the VR should be
mounted near the battery so that it can sense the ambient
temperature that the battery is subject to. The bus voltage
should be 14.4 in cold weather and 14.25 in hot weather. If both
battery and VR are mounted on the engine side of the firewall,
then the bus voltage should be 14.2V once everything has warmed
up.
Mike Mladejovsky, PhD EE
Pacer '00Z (Prestolite alternator)
Skylane '1MM (ditto)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Fuel Gauge senders |
Last week, the tank-mounted electric fuel pump went out in my
'98 K1500 Chev pick-up. Several $hundred later, I have a new
pump assembly. I retrived the failed assembly from my mechanic.
I was surprised that the assembly contains the fuel level sender
in addition to the pump, a pressure switch and miscellaneous
spigots. I took the sender off the pump, and checked it with an
Ohmmeter. Shows 45 Ohms empty (float at bottom) and 250 Ohms
full. The resistance element is a screened thin-film resistor
on a ceramic substrate. The float arm contacts appear to be made
out of phosphor-bronze.
The unit seems to be well made. Much better than the senders
used in Cessnas and Pipers.
Homebuilders looking for a cheap source of a float/sender
assembly could go to any auto maintenance garage and have the
mechanic there save the "dead" pumps from GM vehicles. My
mechanic says that he replaces a couple of these each week. Most
customers dont want them, so he throws them in the trash.
Mike Mladejovsky
Pacer '00Z
Skylane '1MM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil alarm design |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Trampas"
:
Envoy : lundi 29 septembre 2003 13:16
Objet : RE: AeroElectric-List: Oil alarm design
>
> The easier solution is to get an oil pressure switch and tee it in with
your
> oil pressure sender. This way you have a true back up system.
>
> Trampas
>
You're right. I was hoping to avoid teeing and getting in one of those heavy
and bulky switches.
Now does anyone around know of a SMALL and yet reliable pressure switch ?
Thanks
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 20 amp vac pad failure, |
Pictures L ink has Changed
>
>
>Bob,
>
>We have a very robust shake table suitable for piston engine vibration
>frequency test work.
>
>If you want to try to try to deliberately re-create the over torque problem
>we could probably run some vibration testing on it.
>
>Regards, George
Okay . . . I'll keep that in mind. At the moment, I'm not
directly involved in the investigation. I've asked to be
apprised of progress and findings. It's better that folks
who are understandably concerned about such things get good
data and advise on their concerns.
Given that it's such an extremely rare event and so late
in a long, successful field history . . . installation
problems and/or isolated event casting problems seem likely
suspects. Nothing has been ruled out yet. I'll make them
aware of your offer.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors for gyro |
>
>
>Aircraft Spruce MS3116E8-4S $18.95.
Allied Electronics also stocks this connector
Their catalog number is 714-6108. They list for $16.09 ea.
See http://www.alliedelec.com
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rino <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List:RC Allen Gyro electrical connector |
I just got an RC Allen electric Gyro and need information on the
connector.
The connector is an Amphenol MS3116E8-4P and -4S.
I am told to connect Pin A to Ground and Pin B to +14 volts.
I cannot identify pins A and pin B on the connector, the markings makes
no sense to me.
I do not want to risk connecting it reverse polarity.
Rino
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED Position Lights |
>You're close. The emitters appear to be the 1W Luxeon Star-O in a custom
heat sink/circuit board.
>These units run at 350mA and 4.0V worst case ( about 3.3V for red ), so 7
of them in series just
> fit in a 28V system. No 28-to-56V step-up unit required. The Star-O,
because of its optics,
>can put out a really bright beam - over 180 candela.
Whelen confirms that the 70875 position lights mentioned in this thread over
the last few weeks are
using the Luxeon Star-O emitters. The housing contains only a heat sink,
and the emitters are derated
20% for maximum reliability. The list price of these items is about $460 -
expect the street price to be
around $250. Whelen will be changing over its entire aviation filament-based
illuminators
to LED-based over the next two years or so. The economies of scale of its
emergency vehicle and
industrial divisions are allowing its aviation division to modernize its
products. A/C mfgs are chomping
at the bit, but more for the install-and-forget reliability rather than the
power savings.
Shaun
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 wiring problem |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Mike,
On connector P4001, pins 46 and 47 output GPS ARINC 429 signals. Pins
41,54, 56,and 58 output RS232 GPS signals.
Joel Harding
On Sunday, Sep 28, 2003, at 18:21 America/Denver,
mstewart(at)qa.butler.com wrote:
>
> I am installing my Garmin 430. It was pre-wired, meaning connectors are
> wired with wires hanging out and labeled. I can not find any wires
> labled
> gps data out. I have d/l the pinouts from AE's site and none of the
> connectors seems to have this designation. I am trying to drive my
> Navaid
> with the 430 gps. I surely hope that this thing has a gps data out. Do
> they
> call it something different?
> Thanks
> Mike Stewart
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors for gyro |
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RC Allen Gyro electrical connector |
>
>I just got an RC Allen electric Gyro and need information on the
>connector.
>The connector is an Amphenol MS3116E8-4P and -4S.
>I am told to connect Pin A to Ground and Pin B to +14 volts.
>I cannot identify pins A and pin B on the connector, the markings makes
>no sense to me.
>I do not want to risk connecting it reverse polarity.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/MS3116E8-4S.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: amphenol connectors for gyro |
thanks Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil alarm design |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
>----- Message d'origine -----
>De : "Trampas"
> :
>Envoy : lundi 29 septembre 2003 13:16
>Objet : RE: AeroElectric-List: Oil alarm design
>
>
> >
> > The easier solution is to get an oil pressure switch and tee it in with
>your
> > oil pressure sender. This way you have a true back up system.
> >
> > Trampas
> >
>
>You're right. I was hoping to avoid teeing and getting in one of those heavy
>and bulky switches.
>Now does anyone around know of a SMALL and yet reliable pressure switch ?
http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplatePNB.asp?nProductGroupID=146
http://www.gemssensors.com/pdf%5CIOM_Bulletins%5C174180.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List:RC Allen Gyro electrical connector |
Do you mean that the pins are marked but because they read Rt to Lt it
doesn't seem to make sense, or the pins on the gyro just aren't marked?
Mine shows: the following: B . . A
and
.H
a D. .E
Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator field cut-off |
>
>
>Hi all,
> I'm rebuilding/rewiring some of the electrics on a
>used Glasair that I bought, and in particular know that the
>alternator field cut-off switch is not "right" at present.
September 12, 2003 - September 29, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cl