AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fg
January 06, 2006 - January 14, 2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Oops...
You'll have to cut and paste if your email program leaves the .jpg off
the end as mine did...
Or, here's a tinyurl version to link to it:
http://tinyurl.com/awx72
That should get you there without any problems.
Harley
Harley wrote:
>
>And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's
>panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here:
>www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG
>
>Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it.
>Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the
>archives if he wants.
>
>Harley
>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else
>>related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be
>>pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com
>>
>>You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure
>>to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll
>>add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive
>>file name.
>>
>>Bob . . .
>>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Oh gee hell no, go right ahead. Anything I can do to give back to the
building community is very little compared to what I've gotten..:)
Remember I still ahave about 15 clear sheets of label is iny one wants
'em for a buck a sheet.
Cheers
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Harley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic
-->
And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's
panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here:
www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG
Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it.
Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the
archives if he wants.
Harley
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>-->
>
>If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else related to the
>construction of their airplanes) I'd be pleased to add it to the
>/Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com
>
>You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure to include a
>description of what we're looking at. I'll add descriptive text to the
>photo and post it with a descriptive file name.
>
>Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Oh gee hell no, go right ahead. Anything I can do to give back to the
>building community is very little compared to what I've gotten..:)
>
>Remember I still ahave about 15 clear sheets of label is iny one wants
>'em for a buck a sheet.
>
>Cheers
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Harley
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic
>
>-->
>
>And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's
>panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here:
>www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG
>
>Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it.
>Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the
>archives if he wants.
Give me the caption for it. How, why, who, where, when, etc.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
(snipped. But same topic)
Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic
(the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new
Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic
piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea
for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an
LED backlight.
Pictures here.
http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418
I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen
on white or semi-see-thru plastic.
Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :)
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that
specializes in custom flight simulator cockpits:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3.jpg
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg
It's engraved acrylic. Available from
http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot
cheaper than from Cessna.
I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs.
Dave Morris
At 03:34 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>(snipped. But same topic)
>
>Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic
>(the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new
>Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic
>piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea
>for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an
>LED backlight.
>
>Pictures here.
>http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418
>
>I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen
>on white or semi-see-thru plastic.
>
>Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :)
>
>Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 01/06/2006 3:43:58 PM Central Standard Time,
aadamson(at)highrf.com writes:
Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic
(the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)?
>>>
I can't say enough good things about Steve Davis (aka The PanelPilot) in
Memphis who did my panel- absolutely no kickbacks! Here's a description of his
process- click >>Next Entry>> on each page, and click on the fotoz for larger
image.
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5100
Obviously I'm very happy with the results...
Thanks, Steve!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - N51PW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reginald E. DeLoach" <redeloach(at)fedex.com> |
When I was a mechanic here at FedEx, I engraved data plates for equipment. I have
a
friend who was rebuilding a Cessna 140 and needed his panel reworked.. I took a
piece of clear plexi and cut it to the shape of his panel. Each gauge was marked
and
I engraved the names/nomenclatures in REVERSE on the plexi. I then filled the
letters with white tire lettering stick and turned the panel over. It was clear,
see
thru, and had all the engraving on the back side and highlighted in "never get
dirty" white. The now top of the panel is smooth. It's lasted for years and the
letters are still crisp, the paint is still white. They are "under" the glass!
red :}
"Alan K. Adamson" wrote:
>
> (snipped. But same topic)
>
> Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving plastic
> (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)? My new
> Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised plastic
> piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave me the idea
> for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that plastic with an
> LED backlight.
>
> Pictures here.
> http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418
>
> I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse" silkscreen
> on white or semi-see-thru plastic.
>
> Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion :)
>
> Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Dave,
Thanks for the pictures... Good stuff... I sent you a private email as well.
This is a place where I've found really good prices on bulk plastics.
Specifically on this page, Acrylic...sheets, colored...
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&catego
ry%5Fname=21314&product%5Fid=9792
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Morris "BigD"
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Panel backlit
-->
Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that specializes
in custom flight simulator cockpits:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3.
jpg
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg
It's engraved acrylic. Available from
http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot
cheaper than from Cessna.
I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs.
Dave Morris
At 03:34 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>(snipped. But same topic)
>
>Has anyone done anything with "back lighting" a piece of engraving
>plastic (the two layers stuff with white on bottom, and black on top)?
>My new Cessna has LED back lighting for everything. Most are a raised
>plastic piece with the white showing the light thru, however, what gave
>me the idea for the engravers plastic was the callsign, it's just that
>plastic with an LED backlight.
>
>Pictures here.
>http://www.highrf.com/gallery/38AL-Panel/DSCN0418
>
>I'll bet the other, non-engraved is just some sort of "reverse"
>silkscreen on white or semi-see-thru plastic.
>
>Hehe... Aint it interesting how we turned this into a panel discussion
>:)
>
>Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting:
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list
last night.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:
-->
This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story
wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow
astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply
used pencils.
Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution:
1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist.
2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:
-->
Brainstorming, not criticizing here..
If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe on
would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery down)..
An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little
combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the
master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open
while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but
not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the airplane
after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on
Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some
aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at
night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat
switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the
master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch, maybe?
Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex?
If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could be
illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very annoying
to be around.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Bob,
> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar,
> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the
> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention
> before you leave and remind you of the Master left on.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
> To: "aeroelectric list"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is
>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now
>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while.
>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the
>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am
>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am
>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt .
>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped.
>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning
>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have
>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic
>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance
>> Bob Noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glaesers" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel backlit |
I've played a bit with LEDs for backlighting. I think you'll find the
Luxeon LEDs extreme overkill! Even superbright 5mm LEDs are much too
bright. I found some small LEDs designed for backlighting from Mouser (PN
638-72SURCS530A2S2).
Dennis Glaeser
------------------------------------------------------
Yes. Check out these switch panels I had made by a company that
specializes in custom flight simulator cockpits:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Center3.
jpg
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/SwitchPanel-Left.jpg
It's engraved acrylic. Available from
http://www.aircraftsimulators.com/f16.html at what I would guess is a lot
cheaper than from Cessna.
I'm going to be backlighting them with Luxeon 1W LEDs.
Dave Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument names (was: EFIS Backup EFIS?) |
Ernest Christley wrote:
>
> attitude gyro
> Turn and Bank
> turn coordinator
> Turn Indicator
>
> I'm I the only one who gets a headache when reading these discussions? All the
different instruments with ever so slightly different names that give ever
so slightly different information. What I need is a cheat sheet that clearly
and concisely explains which is which that I can keep in my wallet.
>
> Is there at least a website somewhere that I could bookmark to clear the fog?
Altimeter: ALT
Displays altitude based on outside air pressure. Must be corrected for
barometric pressure and temperature differences to indicate correctly.
Vertical Speed Indicator: VSI
Displays the rate of climb or descent based on the rate of change in air
pressure. This instrument lags the actual rate of climb or descent.
Air speed indicator: ASI
This instrument displays the dynamic pressure on the airframe. What it
displays is the "speed" at which the airframe "thinks" it is advancing
through the air.
Turn Coordinator: TC, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator
This instrument usually has a small aircraft whose wingtip indicates a
standard-rate turn. This instrument responds to both yaw (rate of turn)
and rate of bank change. It therefore responds more quickly than a
Turn-and-Slip Indicator but is "twitchier" in turbulence. These are
usually found in newer spam cans.
Turn-and-Slip Indicator: T&SI, needle-ball, turn-and-bank, turn-indicator
This is the older rate-of-turn instrument with a vertical needle that
indicates rate of turn. Two needle-widths has the pointer under one of
the "doghouse" symbols and indicates a standard rate turn. Old timers
and ex-military pilots tend to prefer this instrument to the TC even
tho' both instruments perform the same function. Perhaps that is because
this instrument is more stable in turbulence than a TC.
Inclinometer: "ball"
The inclinometer is found in both the TC and T&SI. Some attitude
indicators also have an inclinometer, especially those intended to
replace the TC/T&SI.
The inclinometer is used to indicate whether or not a turn is
coordinated (skid or slip).
Attitude Indicator: AI, artificial horizon, gyro horizon, vertical gyro
This instrument directly displays pitch and bank angle.
Heading Indicator: HI, DG, directional gyro, gyro compass, horizontal gyro
Provides stable heading information even in a turn. If not slaved
(locked to a magnetic heading source), must be periodically reset as it
drifts or "precesses".
That is it for the "six pack". I tried to relate all the names by which
the different instruments are known.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | what is an engineer |
Thank you OC...I wish I could have met this man.
Bret Smith
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bakerocb(at)cox.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: what is an engineer
1/6/2006
I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with
this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may
be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502
310.html
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
I'll second Mark's enthusiastic indorsement of Steve Davis' work. We had
him cut out all of our panels from aluminum and then cut out overlays from
a special overlay material that he ordered. He reverse engraved the
lettering in the overlays for back lighting. I did not backlight any of
the lettering. We chose panel flood lighting made from EL strips (from
Steinair) hooked into a dimmer. We didn't have the room for LED's and
backlighting with EL is not very far along in the experimental world. Can
do it later if someone can provide an easy solution.
I did the panel in AutoCAD and his computer setup can import that very
easily.
I'll second Mark's impression of Steve as a great host ( barbecue joint)
and superb craftsman. I drove the 600 mile trip to Memphis twice to be
there when the cutting was done. Great time.
Check this album for pictures:
http://w1.lancair.net/pix/jschroeder-panel
John
> I can't say enough good things about Steve Davis (aka The PanelPilot) in
> Memphis who did my panel- absolutely no kickbacks! Snip
> Obviously I'm very happy with the results...
> Thanks, Steve!
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips - N51PW
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Holland" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
I've alerted B&C about our exchange. The OV you purchased
SHOULD have been fitted with all mods appropriate to the
current configuration. They're looking into how you came
to receive the one you had.While they are checking I have a second unit purchased
about the same time attached to the SD8 alternator circuit. Haven't run
it much, other than to determine it works. Is there a way to determine whether
this one has the mod by looking at it?
>I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire
>for the field, is this adequate?
Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need
to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but
resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator
sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using?
Yes, single point ground with the engine tied to the ground via a web strap. Internally
regulated, VANS 60 AMP automotive type alternator. Again, many thanks
for checking and repairing my module. I'm feeling safer already!
Mike...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer |
In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:58:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
smithhb(at)tds.net writes:
I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with
this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may
be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person:
I whole heartedly agree with you, O.C.! I have met some wonderful genius
non degreed engineers in my lifetime (wish I could have met Orville and
Wilbur!). It is too bad that many degreed engineers use that degree as a pedigree
or as a license to be rude and unkind. In the military, a man can be
commissioned to be an officer and a gentleman but, it is up to him to be that
gentleman.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
The link seems to be dead
Peter
How about
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/61015_Symbols_Library.z
ip
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
><PLaurence@the-beach.net>
>
>
>Bob,
>The link seems to be dead
That's the old "fat" file. Here's the trimmed file
I posted later:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip
Also, be aware that the website is getting some much needed attention
for organization and from time to time, files may move to new folders.
You can always go directly to the folder structures by using the site
index at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Downloads.html
and explore the directories from there. In this case, you
go to "Page per System Drawings" and then to "ACAD_Symbols_Library"
that will take to the individual symbols and the .zip file of
all symbols cited above.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TC versus T&B, Was: Instrument names (was: EFIS |
Backup EFIS?)
On 6 Jan 2006, at 21:16, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> If the aircraft is simultaneously rolled one way and yawed the
> other, (an
> almost impossible thing to do in most airplanes!) it will show no
> movement at
> all.
Actually, the roll and yaw are in opposite directions in an inverted
spin. The relative proportions of roll and yaw depend on the pitch
attitude (assuming a fully developed spin with a vertical axis of
rotation). It is a bit of a crap shoot to guess what a TC would be
showing. This is one of the reasons why I have a T&B, as I plan to
do quite a bit of aerobatics, and I can't rule out the possibility of
ending up in an inverted spin following a botched manoeuvre.
The fact that the roll and yaw are in opposite directions make
inverted spins quite disorienting. We tend to be more sensitive to
roll rate than yaw rate, so there is a tendency to misinterpret the
direction of spin. If the inverted spin is intentional, then you
probably know which way you are spinning. But, if it was
unintentional, the turn needle on a T&B is a good confirmation as to
which rudder you need to push.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eddyfernan(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Merging 6 wires into 1 |
I am in the process of running all of my instrument lights into a dimmer. What
is the common or best way to reduce about 6 or 8 wire into the one wire that
will connect to the dimmer? A couple of butt connectors staggered down the bundle?
RV-9a
Finishing the last 3 or 4 thousand minor details!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting:
>
>http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
>
>Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list
>last night.
Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around
for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out
of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space
Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are
they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently.
I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
>
>
> >I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire
> >for the field, is this adequate?
>
> Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need
> to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but
> resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator
> sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using?
>
>Yes, single point ground with the engine tied to the ground via a web
>strap. Internally regulated, VANS 60 AMP automotive type alternator.
>Again, many thanks for checking and repairing my module. I'm feeling safer
>already!
We shall see. I'm 99.9% certain that the upgrade will fix
your problem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Merging 6 wires into 1 |
>
>I am in the process of running all of my instrument lights into a
>dimmer. What is the common or best way to reduce about 6 or 8 wire into
>the one wire that will connect to the dimmer? A couple of butt connectors
>staggered down the bundle?
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
It's never "incorrect" to simply solder the wires into a common joint
and cover with heatshrink. Just joints tied into wire bundles are
very long lived in light aircraft. But if you're looking for a craftsman
of the year award, the judges will no doubt bring a lot of baggage
from the TC and Mil-Spec worlds. The use of classier tools and materials
will get you some points.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting:
> >
> >http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
> >
> >Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft list
> >last night.
>
> Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around
> for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out
> of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space
> Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are
> they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently.
>
> I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Hi Bob,
The Space Pens are still available. I purchased one in a stationary
store a couple of months ago when I lost the one I'd been using for 10
years. I forget what I paid but it was under $10 although they had some
for more.
Bob W.
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lehman" <lehmans(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List |
I am amazed at the number of mistakes I (we?) get-away-with, usually unknown
to anyone but ourselves (but for the grace of ...).
I could never forget the 'Master' because the machine had either:
1. big red panel light (homebuilt) or
2. a noisy electric gyro ("certified" aircraft)
But, how did that dome/map/panel light (wired direct to battery) rocker
switch unknowingly get bumped ON in bright daylight? Same effect as Master
left ON: dead battery. Would adding item "Check Dome Light Switch OFF" to a
shutdown checklist guarantee no repeat? Nope, because one day, some day, I
might miss the checklist item.
Mike
The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't
happen to me!
A little fear is a wonderful thing.
This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story
wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow
astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply
used pencils.
Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution:
1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist.
2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
>
>Bob,
>
>Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got
>a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no
>trouble opening .dwg's in the past.
Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP.
I wonder if there are any compatibility problems
for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered
making my .zip files self-extracting but this
makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably
concerned about.
Try going to this directory:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library
2DIODBLK.DWG is an old symbol originally saved under R14 AutoCAD which
I just opened and re-saved under 2000. The thing jumped from
5K to 25K bytes (ugh!).
The one just below . . . 30SPDTRY.DWG is still in AutoCAD R14.
I'd appreciate it if you'd see how your TCv7.0 handles these
two files.
The Unzip corruption is another issue. I'll poke around on
the 'net and see if we might have a compatibility problem between
releases of PkZip.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyguy6a(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ExbusII for sale |
Listers:
Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now"
for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches,
tray mount. Item #4602928704
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1
Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism.
Jack L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, |
AeroElectric-List
One solution for something like a dome light could be to wire an auto
off feature. My newer multimeter does that. Some car dome lights do it.
In fact years ago when I tired of replacing 9v. batteries, I added such
a feature to an older multimeter using a mosfet transistor that runs
until a gate capacitor bleeds down. For all intents and purposes, the
standby current draw is zero after it times out.
A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few
ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I
don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby
current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring.
Ken
Mike Lehman wrote:
>
>I am amazed at the number of mistakes I (we?) get-away-with, usually unknown
>to anyone but ourselves (but for the grace of ...).
>
>I could never forget the 'Master' because the machine had either:
> 1. big red panel light (homebuilt) or
> 2. a noisy electric gyro ("certified" aircraft)
>
>But, how did that dome/map/panel light (wired direct to battery) rocker
>switch unknowingly get bumped ON in bright daylight? Same effect as Master
>left ON: dead battery. Would adding item "Check Dome Light Switch OFF" to a
>shutdown checklist guarantee no repeat? Nope, because one day, some day, I
>might miss the checklist item.
>
>Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ExbusII for sale |
PLEASE people..
Convert long URLs using TinyURL.com
It'll help everyone...even those of us who don't know how or want to
take the time to cut and paste and edit to get one good address.
This one below can be compressed to:
http://tinyurl.com/c693l
Harley
Flyguy6a(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Listers:
>
>Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now"
>for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches,
>tray mount. Item #4602928704
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
>ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1
>
>Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism.
>
>Jack L.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Keep a link to the Snopes site. It is very useful in checking stories like
this. And for a free site they are unbelievably thorough in their
investigations and reports.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:
-->
>
>
>The NASA story is an urban myth. The truth is much more interesting:
>
>http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
>
>Interestingly enough this same legend came up on the Corvair aircraft
>list last night.
Thanks for the link! I've seen this floating around
for a lot of years. The $10 millions seemed way out
of whack. I also recalled being able to buy the "Space
Pen" in office stores for fairly reasonable prices. Are
they still out there? Don't recall seeing one recently.
I've .pdf'ed the Snopes page for future reference.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adam Molny <Adam(at)ValidationPartners.com> |
| Subject: | Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie |
I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric,
FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to
go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the
ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a
single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a
failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight.
If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would
it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure,
and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus.
If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding
field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out
the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of
overloading bus B.
Any thoughts?
Adam Molny
Legacy #151
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | ExbusII for sale |
As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
And
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Flyguy6a(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ExbusII for sale
Listers:
Exbus II Load Center for sale on eBay. Van's price $424, "Buy it now"
for $349. Brand spankin' new. Has Batt backup feature, rocker switches,
tray mount. Item #4602928704
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4602928704&rd1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESC%3AIT&rd=1
Do not archive. and thanks for allowing blatant commercialism.
Jack L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie |
Hi Adam
I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one
alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV
protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case.
With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and
diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP
activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be
open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the
crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that
the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the
option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open
circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has
allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would
be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or
sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There
really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which
makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the
option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a
maintanance facility.
Ken
Adam Molny wrote:
>
>I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric,
>FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to
>go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the
>ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a
>single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a
>failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight.
>
>If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would
>it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure,
>and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus.
>
>If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding
>field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out
>the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of
>overloading bus B.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Adam Molny
>Legacy #151
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Didn't get a chance to see if TC v 7.0 would open the libray because I got
> >a corruption message when I tried to unzip the symbol file. I've had no
> >trouble opening .dwg's in the past.
>
> Hmmmm . . . I have a recent version of PKZIP.
> I wonder if there are any compatibility problems
> for un-zipping with older releases. I've considered
> making my .zip files self-extracting but this
> makes them .exe files which many folks are understandably
> concerned about.
>
Besides us Linux guys don't appreciate .exe files at all. I checked a
few of the DWG files from the first link you posted and they open with
VariCAD after I changed all the extensions to lower case.
Bob W.
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (Projected engine start - maybe today)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/07/06 |
As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product:
Yes he does. But I have one in a 6A and it is doing very well. Have never
had one problem with it. TT on unit/aircraft is 85 hours.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | master switch idiot light |
Thanks to many good replys about a master on warning light. I like the oil pressure
and low voltage options. One or the other for sure. I have always been religious
with a ckecklist , It is when you get out of the checklist routine you
get nailed. Like getting back out of your car and going back in to a dark hangar
to get the logbook or read the hobbs meter. And the price isnt always so
benign as a dead battery on a sunny day. my punishment was a frozen, cracked battery
which had leaked all its acid into the battery box and the overflow tubing
carried it harmlessly to the hangar floor. Could have been major damage to
the floor of a piper warrior.I will bet there are quite a few homebuilts that
would not have survived that incident so well. anyway.... i will install a
light and thanks to all who replied.
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa (Alfred Buess)" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch> |
| Subject: | Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List |
The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always
hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not
supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in
electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a
warning (buzzer) system?
Alfred
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken
Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50
An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com.AeroElectric-List
Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning,
AeroElectric-List
A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few
ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I
don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby
current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> warning, |
AeroElectric-List(at)roxy.matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Check lists, Was: Master switch |
warning, AeroElectric-List
I'll bet you can find schematics for those in Popular Electronics going
back to the mid 1930's.
Dave Morris
At 09:53 AM 1/8/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always
>hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not
>supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in
>electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a
>warning (buzzer) system?
>
>Alfred
>
>
>-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ken
>Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Januar 2006 18:50
>An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com.AeroElectric-List
>Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning,
>AeroElectric-List
>
>
>A universal solution might be a buzzer that detects when more than a few
>
>ma of current is flowing out of the battery. I'll think about it but I
>don't think I know a simple way to do that such that it draws no standby
>
>current, and doesn't add failure points to the original aircraft wiring.
>
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
> As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product:
>
>Yes he does. But I have one in a 6A and it is doing very well. Have never
>had one problem with it. TT on unit/aircraft is 85 hours.
>Dale Ensing
This is a VERY short comment on a LONG story that
does not explain . . . Folks interested in the
REST OF THE STORY are invited to read:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
and
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
The EXP-Bus probably performs as advertised. My
comments about this product have been to generate
dialog about the following observations:
Cost: The price of an EXP-Bus system will buy
all of the fuse-blocks, switches and miscellaneous
components needed to duplicate its functionality
several times over.
Architecture: If the EXP-Bus is EXACTLY what
you want in the way of architecture . . . great.
Any modifications wind up looking like . . . well,
modifications.
Cost of Ownership: The owner has lots of
dollars tied up in the product before any time
is invested to install it. Any component requiring
replacement later must fit the EXP-Bus package . . .
substitutions won't fit.
The major attractions to products like these
are: "Gee, look at that really slick panel already
fabricated and ready to install" and "Wow! Look
at all those electrowhizzies soldered to that
etched circuit board. I could never do that myself."
When a prospective buyer considers purchase, questions
never asked and answered are:
(1) "If I had my druthers, would I ever choose to DO
it exactly that way?" and . . .
(2)"Hmmm . . . that panel has a switch I won't
use or Hmmmmm . . . . the panel doesn't have a
switch I want. Are there ways to fabricate an equal
to or better looking switch panel that exactly meet
my needs?"
(3)"Why would I ever choose to fabricate and
populate an etched circuit board with all those goodies
unless it
(a) reduces wight,
(b) reduces cost to fabricate,
(c) reduces time to completion,
(d) reduces cost to maintain, and/or
(e) increases reliability.
I invited the EXP-Bus designer to address
(a) thru (e) but he declined. My "low opinion"
of this product has nothing to do with advertised
functionality or safety. It's about return on
investment and narrowing one's options both
for system design and future maintenance or
planned modifications.
The answer to (1) is, "Yes". there are many options
for choices in system architecture, none of which
are difficult to assemble from their rudimentary
components. Further, perfectly adequate components
are available that DO NOT REQUIRE or even suggest
use of an etched circuit board which only drives
up total labor (that's why it costs so much) and
parts count.
The answer to (2) has been discussed here on the List
in some detail. I'll suggest, "Yes". There are many
viable options for the builder to craft exactly the
panel functionality and appearance he/she wants.
To date, the answer to (3) is, "No good reasons".
There are no value-added advantages for choosing
EXP-Bus over piece-by-piece design and assembly
except in those cases where the builder accepts the
EXP-Bus limitations and is willing to pay a premium
price to avoid construction of a switch panel with
the necessary switches. The real and apparent
complexity of the EXP-Bus as a turn-key product is
a strong selling point but only when the customer
is unaware of simple options that do just as much
as the EXB-Bus -AND- with positive responses to
points 1-5 above.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning |
>
>
>The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the always
>hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is not
>supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in
>electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such a
>warning (buzzer) system?
I'm not understanding your question. If one wants a
master switch warning, the goal is to sense when the
main bus is hot and the alternator is not supporting
the bus, i.e., engine is not running or alternator is
OFF.
Such a warning device would not require any power from
an always-hot battery bus. The low voltage warning runs
totally from the main bus and the oil-pressure switch
driven warning/hobbs circuit suggested at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
. . . gets Hobbs power from the battery bus and warning power
from the e-bus. This arrangement provides Switch-left-on
warning for BOTH the master and the e-bus alternate feed switches
and takes no power from the battery bus when the airplane is
parked.
I'm not understanding where either active notification
of low volts (which you need for other reasons) and/or oil
pressure warning + buzzer (which are also used for other reasons)
would not also serve, individually or collectively to let
you know that you've walked away leaving the master switch
on. Except that low-volts warning does not watch the e-bus
alternate feed switch. However, the oil-p warning does.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Diodes in the Altitude Encoder data lines . . . |
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob,
>
>I will be installing a digital chronometer with a built in altitude alert.
>The manual calls for a 'T' connection to be fabricated to connect to the
>existing altitude data lines between Encoder and Transponder. Is this a
>simple process of connecting two wires per pin on the encoder DB-15
>connector? Excuse the simple question but I have found no reference
>regarding the correct methods in fabricating a 'T' connection. Also, I
>have seen your wiring for two systems to share one encoder, which shows
>diodes in each line, the manual does not call for diodes to be installed,
>is there any harm in omitting the diodes?
Don't know. In the earliest days of multiple clients
sharing the output from a single encoder, diodes had to
be added in series with each of the client's data signal
lines to prevent a powered-down client from loading the
data bus an killing data to all clients.
Over the years, many folks have either added the diodes
internal to their product or designed the outside world
interface so that the powered down client cannot load
the altitude data bus.
You would have to ask the folks who supplied your
accessories as to whether the product includes bus
isolation features friendly to other devices sharing
the bus.
If the answer is "yes" then your supposition is adequate
and correct but I don't think I'd try to put double wires
into the connector. Taps into the wire covered with heat
shrink for finish would be my choice for installation.
If you need diodes for either client, then an etched circuit
board assembly with diodes and d-sub connectors would be
a cleaner approach. You might ask a local avionics shop what
they use for isolation diode installation techniques. There
may be some whippy adapters that I'm not aware of.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery maintainer |
>
>
>Hi Bob and aeroelectric people, a question! What was the final opinion of
>the group on which battery maintainer seem to work the best on the lead
>sponge batteries. thanks much and BTW Merry Xmas to all, Bob
I don't think there was ever a consensus for a "golden"
battery maintainer. I've tested several Battery Tender
and Schumacher (Wall Mart and others) products and found
that they meet their advertising sales literature and
do indeed offer battery charging and maintaining functions
superior to similar products offered a few years ago. I
have some samples from Soneil which I tested several
months ago. I couldn't get them to do the advertised
"desulfating pulse-charge". I've had some limited
conversation with them since and had planned to visit
their facility as a side trip on our visit to Canada
for a weekend seminar late last year. The visit didn't
work out and further examination of Soneil's products
are on the back burner for the moment.
In the mean time, go to Wall Mart or perhaps Ebay
(Item number: 4601687546) and get a perfectly
adequate charger/maintainer for little more than
pocket change.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa (Alfred Buess)" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning |
Bob,
The warning for main and e-bus is installed as you suggest. However
there is also the always hot battery bus, which feeds the clock in the
MicoMonitor (some few milliamps) and the cabin lights (condiserably more
power). If these lights are left on - it shouldn't happen, but it will
some day - then the battery will be emptied. Thus the idea of a buzzer
that alerts me if the battery bus distributes more than some few
milliamps. Is this a better explanation of the (not so important)
problem?
Thanks,
Alfred
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Januar 2006 19:47
An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master switch warning
-->
>
>
>The buzzer idea sounds great! Lights and other devices fed by the
>always hot battery bus will empty the battery one day if that bus is
>not supervised by an intelligent warning system. Any specialist in
>electronics out there who is able and willing to invent and build such
>a warning (buzzer) system?
I'm not understanding your question. If one wants a
master switch warning, the goal is to sense when the
main bus is hot and the alternator is not supporting
the bus, i.e., engine is not running or alternator is
OFF.
Such a warning device would not require any power from
an always-hot battery bus. The low voltage warning runs
totally from the main bus and the oil-pressure switch
driven warning/hobbs circuit suggested at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
. . . gets Hobbs power from the battery bus and warning power
from the e-bus. This arrangement provides Switch-left-on
warning for BOTH the master and the e-bus alternate feed switches
and takes no power from the battery bus when the airplane is
parked.
I'm not understanding where either active notification
of low volts (which you need for other reasons) and/or oil
pressure warning + buzzer (which are also used for other reasons)
would not also serve, individually or collectively to let
you know that you've walked away leaving the master switch
on. Except that low-volts warning does not watch the e-bus
alternate feed switch. However, the oil-p warning does.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | OVM does double-duty |
I have an idea on how to get by with just one OV module for two alternators in
Z-13/8 and perhaps other architectures. Submitted for critical review:
-relocate the aux. alt. cb to the wire that connects the relay with the aux ammeter
shunt.
-replace the SPDT Aux Alt off-on switch with a DPDT.
-the second pole of the switch transfers the hot end of the OVM (yellow lead) from
terminal 4 of the Master DC power switch when the Aux Alt is off, to the original
attachment point on the hot side of the aux alt relay coil when the aux
alt switch is positioned to "on."
-assumption: the OVM will only be needed for one alternator at a time, therefore
two separate OVM's are not needed with the above design, and transfer of the
OVM to the active alternator is automatic with this design change. A DPDT switch
offers less cost, weight and assembly difficulty versus a second OVM.
What do you think? It just sort of floated up off the page while I was poring
over it this afternoon.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
>
>
>Re corrupted file:
>
>2nd time was the charm. TurboCAD v 7.0 downloaded all the .dwg drawings
>just fine.
>
>Thanks Bob.
>
>John
Thank you! I'm pleased to benefit from data gathered
in your experiment.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 Failure Modes and the Cross-Tie |
99+ percent of alternator failures is to simply stop
producing for whatever reason . . . including ov trip.
A major fraction of what's left will be cause for manual
shutown . . . voltage unstable? Whatever. It is very unlikely
that any alternator failure will take out the b-lead protection.
It's axiomatic that many problems get worse when the pilot
starts messing with things in some attempt to "get all the
goodies back up and running."
The advantage of a fully dual system is that you spread
your backup systems around. One on main bus, one on aux
bus. The best thing to do when something goes T.U. on one
bus is to simply shut that one down. Go into an endurance
mode until comfortable arrival is assured. Battery on the
cold bus is held in reserve. Battery on working bus is
being supported by normal alternator operations.
When and if anything on the 'cold' bus becomes useful
or necessary in the final phase of flight. Close battery
contactor first and watch for normal battery-only
bus levels. Close crossfeed contactor second while observing both
bus voltages now show normal operational levels. Then
finish the flight.
If any voltages appear out of whack after operation of
a switch, re-open the switch immediately and finish the
flight on one bus . . . but don't do this experiment until
you have the airport in sight.
I think it's useful to think of the various system options
as tools for comfortable termination of flight by insuring
availability of minimum equipment . . . the exercises that
pilots go through to perform in-flight diagnostics and/or
get some suite of equipment up running doesn't
necessarily improve outcome is certainly a distraction
and perhaps hazardous.
Only the more complex aircraft can justify Z-14. While
complexity brings capability and convenience, it also
brings workload. If you're vfr in the clear, then perhaps
a total failure is no big deal. When you are depending on at
least the most useful of things to be working then you're
probably IFR and busy with pilot-things to do. The last
thing you want to do is troubleshoot especially when there
is risk of making a situation worse.
Bob . . .
>Hi Adam
>I figure the most likely reason to close the crossfeed is when one
>alternator simply stops producing power or has been shutdown by the OV
>protection. Bus voltage will be nominal battery voltage in such a case.
>With a contactor on the output of an IR regulator even the stator and
>diodes are out of the circuit when I shut down an alternator or the OVP
>activates but I'd expect the alternator fuse/breaker/ANL to already be
>open anyway in that case. I agree that it might be unwise to close the
>crossfeed if immediately after the low voltage warning you observe that
>the voltage is below normal battery voltage but then again you have the
>option if you need the equipment and think maybe you've got a open
>circuited or disconnected battery (or open master contactor) that has
>allowed a subsequent OV excursion and alternator shutdown. Plan A would
>be to leave it alone til on the ground if I don't need it. Any smoke or
>sparks would definately keep my finger away from the crossfeed. There
>really isn't much of a "bus" on a small airplane with fuse blocks which
>makes it very difficult to imagine a shorted bus. Z-14 also gives the
>option of conducting a single alternator recovery flight home or to a
>maintanance facility.
>Ken
>
>Adam Molny wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I'm laying out the electrical system for my all-glass, all-electric,
> >FADEC-powered Lancair Legacy. The Z-14 system seems like the natural way to
> >go, using two full-size alternators. It would be very attractive to have the
> >ability to power both the A and B buses and recharge both batteries from a
> >single alternator when needed. However, I'm having trouble imagining a
> >failure mode where the cross-tie could be used in flight.
> >
> >If the Bus A alternator's field breaker trips in flight (for example), would
> >it be safe to engage the cross-tie? You don't know what caused the failure,
> >and tying the A and B buses together could knock out the B bus.
> >
> >If you get a low voltage warning on bus A, do you pull the corresponding
> >field breaker and engage the cross-tie? Again, if something is shorting out
> >the bus (such as shorted windings on the alternator), you are in danger of
> >overloading bus B.
> >
> >Any thoughts?
> >
> >Adam Molny
> >Legacy #151
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kcorr(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Kitplanes Marker Generator |
Jim Weir wrote an article in the latest issue of Kitplanes (Feb '06) about how
to build a marker generator. Looks like a pretty simple unit to build. Can anyone
point me in the right direction on what he is using for the 32kHz clock,
op-amp, and diodes for the marker beacon tone generator? Also, I assume that
the capacitors are ceramic disk and the resistors are 1/4 watt. Any help will
be greatly appreciated.
Kent Orr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes Marker Generator |
kcorr(at)charter.net wrote:
>
>Jim Weir wrote an article in the latest issue of Kitplanes (Feb '06) about how
to build a marker generator. Looks like a pretty simple unit to build. Can
anyone point me in the right direction on what he is using for the 32kHz clock,
op-amp, and diodes for the marker beacon tone generator? Also, I assume that
the capacitors are ceramic disk and the resistors are 1/4 watt. Any help will
be greatly appreciated.
>
>Kent Orr
>
Jim Weir monitors rec.aviation.homebuilt & answers questions about his
projects on that newsgroup. He's usually pretty quick to answer
questions (just be specific about what you want). Also, there's usually
more complete info on his web site.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Securing Adel Clamps? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I am working on tunnel/undercarriage area of a Europa XS Monowheel. I
installed Adel clamps on Undercarriage Mounting Frame 1/2" and 3/4" to
help with routing of wires, cables and hoses.
This is a complicated tight area on airplane.
The problem is if I try not too hard, I can twist clamps to a undesirable
position, where it would be hard to reposition once the firewall is
installed. The clamps are of proper size, and the next size down will not
fit.
Any suggestions how to get the clamps a bit more stuck?
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Adel Clamps? |
Hi Ron
I put a turn or two of self bonding silicone tape such as Spruce pn
09-30450 under the clamps in a few places.
Ken
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote:
>
>I am working on tunnel/undercarriage area of a Europa XS Monowheel. I
>installed Adel clamps on Undercarriage Mounting Frame 1/2" and 3/4" to
>help with routing of wires, cables and hoses.
>
>This is a complicated tight area on airplane.
>
>The problem is if I try not too hard, I can twist clamps to a undesirable
>position, where it would be hard to reposition once the firewall is
>installed. The clamps are of proper size, and the next size down will not
>fit.
>
>Any suggestions how to get the clamps a bit more stuck?
>
>Thx.
>Sincerely
>Ron Parigoris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
| Subject: | Duplicate messages? |
Is anybody else seeing messages posted multiple times to the list?
Looking through the list mail this morning, I'm seeing two or three
copies of some messages that I've already seen twice or more.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>The warning for main and e-bus is installed as you suggest. However
>there is also the always hot battery bus, which feeds the clock in the
>MicoMonitor (some few milliamps) and the cabin lights (condiserably more
>power). If these lights are left on - it shouldn't happen, but it will
>some day - then the battery will be emptied. Thus the idea of a buzzer
>that alerts me if the battery bus distributes more than some few
>milliamps. Is this a better explanation of the (not so important)
>problem?
Understand. Utility items like courtesy lights can
be fitted with on-limit timers. We have these on
some of our bizjets for baggage compartment lights.
More than one important trip was delayed or canceled
because of a light being left on and the battery was
completely flat at pre-flight.
Very light draws you mentioned are continuous,
necessary and generally tolerated if the airplane
is flown often enough. If stored for long periods
of time, disconnecting the battery or installing
a maintainer jack seems useful.
We'll have a programmable on-limit timer in the
new bevy of products coming to aeroelectric.com
Our first two new products are nearing the field
testing phase. I'll see if we can do the on-limit
timer as project #3.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Duplicate messages? |
Yes I do. Must be some kind of virus on the list.
CT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Brown" <dan(at)familybrown.org>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Duplicate messages?
>
> Is anybody else seeing messages posted multiple times to the list?
> Looking through the list mail this morning, I'm seeing two or three
> copies of some messages that I've already seen twice or more.
>
> --
> Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
> "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
> more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
> -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duplicate messages? |
| From: | Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> |
Yes Dan,
I'm getting the same thing.
Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
Rochester N.Y.
Do not achcive
writes:
>
>
> Is anybody else seeing messages posted multiple times to the list?
> Looking through the list mail this morning, I'm seeing two or three
> copies of some messages that I've already seen twice or more.
>
> --
> Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
> "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy
> the
> more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
> -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duplicate messages? |
Might as well add my two cents as long as the rest of the Rochester area
has chimed in!
I was getting them for awhile this weekend as well...but it looks like
it's back to normal now...guess Matt figured it out.
Harley Dixon
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>Yes Dan,
> I'm getting the same thing.
>Larry Mac Donald
>lm4(at)juno.com
>Rochester N.Y.
>Do not achcive
>
>
>writes:
>
>
>>
>>
>>Is anybody else seeing messages posted multiple times to the list?
>>Looking through the list mail this morning, I'm seeing two or three
>>copies of some messages that I've already seen twice or more.
>>
>>--
>>Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
>>"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy
>>the
>>more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
>>-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Hughes <richardhughes260(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Blind encoder Display |
My ACK encoder was out of adjustment by 400 plus feet.
Yesterday morning, I soldered tohgether a board with a
resistor and 9 diodes. If you have the time to wait
for shipping get the RST item in the link.
(http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/altitude_encoder_and_elt.html)
It displays the data lines coming out of the encoder
A1 A2 A4 Bi B2 B4 C1 C2 C4.
This allowed my partner and myself to remove the
encoder and altimiter, using a hand pump calibrate the
encoder on the dining room table instead of in the
cold.
Here is a 100 ft Gray code table if anyone is
interested http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
I want to use a Basic Stamp II (I have a few) to read
the lines and display them on a serial LCD. The
question is the interface.
When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a
line has a one value it goes to ground. Could I just
put diodes on the lines and check each pin for when it
goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device. Do I need a
seperate chip to detect the voltage that can handle up
to 12 volts?
The goal is to give human readable altitudes on an lcd
display while in flight and providing mode C to the
transponder.
-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Blind encoder Display |
My transponder will do this (Garmin GTX 327). Is there any display on yours?
Also some encoders also spit out RS232. That might be easier to connect to
the PIC.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Hughes
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blind encoder Display
-->
My ACK encoder was out of adjustment by 400 plus feet.
Yesterday morning, I soldered tohgether a board with a resistor and 9
diodes. If you have the time to wait for shipping get the RST item in the
link.
(http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/altitude_encoder_and_elt.html)
It displays the data lines coming out of the encoder
A1 A2 A4 Bi B2 B4 C1 C2 C4.
This allowed my partner and myself to remove the encoder and altimiter,
using a hand pump calibrate the encoder on the dining room table instead of
in the cold.
Here is a 100 ft Gray code table if anyone is interested
http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
I want to use a Basic Stamp II (I have a few) to read the lines and display
them on a serial LCD. The question is the interface.
When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a line has a one value
it goes to ground. Could I just put diodes on the lines and check each pin
for when it goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device. Do I need a seperate
chip to detect the voltage that can handle up to 12 volts?
The goal is to give human readable altitudes on an lcd display while in
flight and providing mode C to the transponder.
-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blind encoder Display |
Rich -
Here's an RS-232 receiver (level shifter) that'll do what you're looking
for:
http://www.futurlec.com/Linear/75189.shtml
However, with a Google or two I bet you'll uncover a few robotics folks
that have already generated a plug-n-play solution for BS2 serial comm.
D
-----------------------
Richard Hughes wrote:
>
> My ACK encoder was out of adjustment by 400 plus feet.
>
> Yesterday morning, I soldered tohgether a board with a
> resistor and 9 diodes. If you have the time to wait
> for shipping get the RST item in the link.
> (http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/altitude_encoder_and_elt.html)
>
> It displays the data lines coming out of the encoder
> A1 A2 A4 Bi B2 B4 C1 C2 C4.
>
> This allowed my partner and myself to remove the
> encoder and altimiter, using a hand pump calibrate the
> encoder on the dining room table instead of in the
> cold.
>
> Here is a 100 ft Gray code table if anyone is
> interested http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
>
> I want to use a Basic Stamp II (I have a few) to read
> the lines and display them on a serial LCD. The
> question is the interface.
>
> When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a
> line has a one value it goes to ground. Could I just
> put diodes on the lines and check each pin for when it
> goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device. Do I need a
> seperate chip to detect the voltage that can handle up
> to 12 volts?
>
> The goal is to give human readable altitudes on an lcd
> display while in flight and providing mode C to the
> transponder.
>
> -Rich
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ELT Antenna Length |
I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not to
ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult. Can
anyone suggest another solution?
Thanks,
Grant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Working on Duplicate Message Problem... |
Hi Aeroelectric Listers,
I'm aware of the duplicate message problem and am trying to figure out what's going
on.
Matt Dralle
List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Blind encoder Display |
I think he is asking about the grey coded parallel interface with a 12 volt
swing.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D Wysong
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind encoder Display
Rich -
Here's an RS-232 receiver (level shifter) that'll do what you're looking
for:
http://www.futurlec.com/Linear/75189.shtml
However, with a Google or two I bet you'll uncover a few robotics folks that
have already generated a plug-n-play solution for BS2 serial comm.
D
-----------------------
Richard Hughes wrote:
> -->
>
> My ACK encoder was out of adjustment by 400 plus feet.
>
> Yesterday morning, I soldered tohgether a board with a resistor and 9
> diodes. If you have the time to wait for shipping get the RST item in
> the link.
> (http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/altitude_encoder_and_elt.html)
>
> It displays the data lines coming out of the encoder
> A1 A2 A4 Bi B2 B4 C1 C2 C4.
>
> This allowed my partner and myself to remove the encoder and
> altimiter, using a hand pump calibrate the encoder on the dining room
> table instead of in the cold.
>
> Here is a 100 ft Gray code table if anyone is interested
> http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
>
> I want to use a Basic Stamp II (I have a few) to read the lines and
> display them on a serial LCD. The question is the interface.
>
> When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a line has a one
> value it goes to ground. Could I just put diodes on the lines and
> check each pin for when it goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device.
> Do I need a seperate chip to detect the voltage that can handle up to
> 12 volts?
>
> The goal is to give human readable altitudes on an lcd display while
> in flight and providing mode C to the transponder.
>
> -Rich
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Burnaby" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
Per my previous response, on the 2nd try, the symbols library file unzipped just
fine.
I dragged both symbols, 2DIOBLK.DWG and 30SPDTRY.DWG, into a drawing and they manipulate
fine with TurboCAD v 7.0 .
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Hughes <richardhughes260(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blind encoder Display |
The ACK encoder I have does Gray code only.
The King KT76A does not display altitude. :(
I was thinking about opto isolators although the Texas
Instruments 75189 looks good, I would need 3 to do all
9 lines, but I would need 9 opto isolators.
-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Duplicates Solved... |
AeroElectric Lister,
Looks like the following email address on the AeroElectric-List was the culprit:
yamokosk(at)lakemichigancollege.edu
Interestingly, this is a community college in Lake Michigan.
They were sending duplicates of messages back to the list with all the original
headers, so it looked like it kept coming from the original people.
I'm suspecting this might be some sort of automated message archiver that is misconfigured.
I've unsubscribed the address from the List and sent them an email.
Things should be back to normal now!
Matt Dralle
List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duplicates Solved... |
Congrats...Matt for chasing down the mystery link that was looping this
List.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Duplicates Solved...
>
>
>
> AeroElectric Lister,
>
> Looks like the following email address on the AeroElectric-List was the
> culprit:
>
> yamokosk(at)lakemichigancollege.edu
>
> Interestingly, this is a community college in Lake Michigan.
>
> They were sending duplicates of messages back to the list with all the
> original headers, so it looked like it kept coming from the original
> people.
>
> I'm suspecting this might be some sort of automated message archiver that
> is misconfigured.
>
> I've unsubscribed the address from the List and sent them an email.
>
> Things should be back to normal now!
>
> Matt Dralle
> List Admin
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blind encoder Display |
Rich,
I am not familiar with the ACK unit.
Is it adjustable, and is the adjustment linear over the total altitude range
once you have made the new calibration?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blind encoder Display
>
>
>
>
> My transponder will do this (Garmin GTX 327). Is there any display on
> yours?
> Also some encoders also spit out RS232. That might be easier to connect to
> the PIC.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Hughes
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blind encoder Display
>
> -->
>
> My ACK encoder was out of adjustment by 400 plus feet.
>
> Yesterday morning, I soldered tohgether a board with a resistor and 9
> diodes. If you have the time to wait for shipping get the RST item in the
> link.
> (http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/altitude_encoder_and_elt.html)
>
> It displays the data lines coming out of the encoder
> A1 A2 A4 Bi B2 B4 C1 C2 C4.
>
> This allowed my partner and myself to remove the encoder and altimiter,
> using a hand pump calibrate the encoder on the dining room table instead
> of
> in the cold.
>
> Here is a 100 ft Gray code table if anyone is interested
> http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
>
> I want to use a Basic Stamp II (I have a few) to read the lines and
> display
> them on a serial LCD. The question is the interface.
>
> When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a line has a one
> value
> it goes to ground. Could I just put diodes on the lines and check each pin
> for when it goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device. Do I need a
> seperate
> chip to detect the voltage that can handle up to 12 volts?
>
> The goal is to give human readable altitudes on an lcd display while in
> flight and providing mode C to the transponder.
>
> -Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
Grant,
If you were able to add a "loading" coil to the antenna correctly, this
would allow you to shorten the current antenna. You would need a guru type
friend that knew antennas to accomplish this for you. However, I would bet
that a search of the web via Google would find a manufacturer that makes the
"loaded" antennas for the frequency that you need.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
> I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not
> to
> ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
> need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
> adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult.
> Can
> anyone suggest another solution?
>
> Thanks,
> Grant
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | DB-25 Pinout for an Eventide Argus 7000? |
Does anyone here have this info tucked away somewhere?
Thanks,
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)AOL.com |
FWIW...
We bought a nice RV6a with an EXBUS in it, and has worked fine for 400+
hours. The builder had to add a few switches though, to make things work.
However, everything Bob says is true about it IMO, and I am wiring my "Garage
Queen"
-6a per Z-11. This has already given me more flexibility with 2x10 fuse
blocks, switches that I can swap around at will, and many more benefits. The
EXBUS pretty much locks you in for architecture, may be o.k. for those who don't
care to deal at all with electrons. For me, it has been the most enjoyable
part of the project so far. I do believe the Subaru conversions, at least
Eggenfellner, require it, don't they?
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: exp-bus
>
>
> As a side note Bob has a low opinion of this product:
>
>Yes he does. But I have one in a 6A and it is doing very well. Have never
>had one problem with it. TT on unit/aircraft is 85 hours.
>Dale Ensing
This is a VERY short comment on a LONG story that
does not explain . . . Folks interested in the
REST OF THE STORY are invited to read:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
and
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duplicates Solved... (For Real, This Time!) |
Okay, I REALLY have it solved this time! I had removed them from the List subscription,
but they kept coming anyway. I've blocked any posts from their domain
now, so we should be safe!
I'm going to go clean the archive now...
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
At 10:59 AM 1/9/2006 Monday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>AeroElectric Lister,
>
>Looks like the following email address on the AeroElectric-List was the culprit:
>
> yamokosk(at)lakemichigancollege.edu
>
>Interestingly, this is a community college in Lake Michigan.
>
>They were sending duplicates of messages back to the list with all the original
headers, so it looked like it kept coming from the original people.
>
>I'm suspecting this might be some sort of automated message archiver that is misconfigured.
>
>I've unsubscribed the address from the List and sent them an email.
>
>Things should be back to normal now!
>
>Matt Dralle
>List Admin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blind encoder Display |
Richard Hughes wrote:
> When a line has a zero value it is at 12 volts, when a
> line has a one value it goes to ground. Could I just
> put diodes on the lines and check each pin for when it
> goes to ground? The Stamp is a TTL device. Do I need a
> seperate chip to detect the voltage that can handle up
> to 12 volts?
There are a couple of ways to approach this. Perhaps the simplest is to
clamp the inputs to ground and +5 using diodes and provide a
current-limiting resistor like this:
+5
|
---
/ \
---
|
encoder output >--/\/\/\----+-------> TTL input
R1 |
---
/ \
---
|
gnd
R1 needs to be selected to limit the current. 10K should be just fine
and will limit current to under 1mA. This will clamp the input to within
one diode drop of ground or +5VDC.
OTOH, isn't the STAMP a CMOS product? If so, it might not care if you
use +12 and ground as inputs. It probably has protective diodes inside
already so you would just need the current-limiting resistor. Still, the
diode clamp approach is safe and will work.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
Group:
I have a quick question regarding how the mags are wired to toggle switches as
illustrated in drawing Z-11.
As wired in this schematic, if you place the right mag to "on" and then engage
the starter via the left mag/start switch, does this ground out both mags so that
you can turn the engine over with the ignition essentially off?
Thanks in advance
Jeff Orear
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
>
>I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not to
>ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
>need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
>adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult. Can
>anyone suggest another solution?
I did some tests on a bizjet installation where we substituted
a "rubber-duck" of a VHF-Comm hand-held for a full sized 21 inch
antenna. Differences in gain and pattern were barely discernable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | E-Bus Avionics Switch ? |
Just thinking? On any of the Endurance Bus drawings. Other than the "don't
really need it" discussion and parts count issue, what would the downsides
be of adding a S704 contactor between the D25 and E-Bus so that you
effectively used the whole E-bus as an Avionics bus. This would assume that
the E-bus load can be easily carried by the S704 which I think is rated at
20 amps and has low continuous draw. It would actually save several
switches for EFIS systems like the GRT which are not internally switched.
Comments appreciated.
Thanks Bill S
7a Ark
Wiring as we speak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
An ELT is an insurance policy you hope to not have to use. Changing the
length by 8% will cause the transmitter to no longer reach its maximum
distance. Maybe instead of 40 mile range you only get 35. If by
shortening it, the SWR goes up to the point that the automatic overload
circuitry trips in the ELT and shuts off the transmitter, that wouldn't be
good either. Ask the ELT manufacturer about that. If you're going to be
doing a lot of flying over the Amazon, you might reconsider.
A better question might be what is limiting the length to 19 3/8? Is it a
metal panel? Proximity to metal would be an even more serious problem than
an 8% shorter antenna. Can you bend the antenna and keep its length?
Dave Morris
At 12:15 PM 1/9/2006, you wrote:
>
>I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not to
>ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
>need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
>adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult. Can
>anyone suggest another solution?
>
> Thanks,
> Grant
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mag switches |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hello Jeff,
The way I interpret the drawing is that when the right mag is "on", the
starter circuit is disabled. In other words, when the right mag is on
(disconnecting 2 from 3), continuity between terminals 5 and 6 is broken,
which disables the starter circuit.
The drawing shows the right mag switch in the OFF-START position.
With the switch selected as drawn, the right mag is grounded out
(disabled) via continuity between terminals 2 and 3.
The drawing shows the left mag grounded out (disabled) via terminals 2 and 3.
The drawing shows the starter circuit is disabled because terminals 4 and
5 on the left mag aren't connected.
As drawn, if the left mag switch is moved, the left mag is disabled. If
it is moved to its full opposite position, the left mag is enabled (no
continuity between 2 and 3), and the starter is enabled (continuity
between 4 and 5).
I hope that helps..
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Group:
>
> I have a quick question regarding how the mags are wired to toggle
> switches as illustrated in drawing Z-11.
>
> As wired in this schematic, if you place the right mag to "on" and then
> engage the starter via the left mag/start switch, does this ground out
> both mags so that you can turn the engine over with the ignition
> essentially off?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! |
Dear Listers,
I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS interface is now available for
all of the Email Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system that allows
for viewing, posting, attachments, polls - the works.
But the best part is that it is *completely* integrated with all of the existing
email tools currently available at Matronics! What this means at the most basic
level is that, if you post a message to List from Email in the traditional
way, it will show up on the BBS system *and* get distributed to everyone currently
subscribed to the Email List. By the same token, if you are on the BBS
and post a message to a given List-Forum, the message will not only show up on
the BBS, but also be distributed to everyone on the Email List!!
It is really a very nice implementation and I am very pleased with its operation.
All of the tools you have come to know and love such as the List Search Engine
and List Browse and Download will still be available and contain all of the
latest posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just another method of accessing
the all of the Lists.
You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts without having to do anything
except use your browser to surf over to the site. You can view and look at
all of the various List's posts. If you want to post a new message or reply
to an existing message from the BBS, you will have to Register on the BBS. This
is a *very* simple process and will only take a couple of minutes. There is
a small icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS page labeled "Register"
to get you started.
I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same* email address you are subscribed
to the Email Lists with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not an
absolute requirement, I would really appreciate it if people would use their full
name when choosing their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt Dralle").
This just makes it easier for everyone to know who's posting. Also, I have enabled
the ability to upload a small user picture with your profile called an
"avatar". Please use a *real* picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank
you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120.
You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any number of Email Lists, or both.
Registering on the BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the various
Lists. However, to receive direct List Email, you will need to be *subscribed*
to the various Lists as you have in the past. No changes here in operation.
I have added numerous links on the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription
page.
I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a week now, so its already loaded
up with a fair number of messages. You can post photos and other documents
directly to the BBS and links to them will appear in the List Email distributions.
Also, when any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the List Email
distribution, there will be a URL link at the bottom of the message pointing
back to the BBS.
And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main URL for the new Matronics Email
List BBS is:
http://forums.matronics.com
Please surf on over, Register, and have a great time! I think this will be the
dawn of a whole new era for the Lists at Matronics!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
Grant,
Is this antenna "inside" or does it mount out in the breeze?
Bob . . .
>
>Grant,
>If you were able to add a "loading" coil to the antenna correctly, this
>would allow you to shorten the current antenna. You would need a guru type
>friend that knew antennas to accomplish this for you. However, I would bet
>that a search of the web via Google would find a manufacturer that makes the
>"loaded" antennas for the frequency that you need.
>David
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
> >
> >
> > I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not
> > to
> > ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
> > need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
> > adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult.
> > Can
> > anyone suggest another solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Grant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mag switches |
Thanks Matt.
I guess what I really want to know is how do you turn an engine over as
wired in Z11 without the mags hot?
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: mag switches
>
>
> Hello Jeff,
>
> The way I interpret the drawing is that when the right mag is "on", the
> starter circuit is disabled. In other words, when the right mag is on
> (disconnecting 2 from 3), continuity between terminals 5 and 6 is broken,
> which disables the starter circuit.
>
> The drawing shows the right mag switch in the OFF-START position.
>
> With the switch selected as drawn, the right mag is grounded out
> (disabled) via continuity between terminals 2 and 3.
>
> The drawing shows the left mag grounded out (disabled) via terminals 2 and
> 3.
>
> The drawing shows the starter circuit is disabled because terminals 4 and
> 5 on the left mag aren't connected.
>
> As drawn, if the left mag switch is moved, the left mag is disabled. If
> it is moved to its full opposite position, the left mag is enabled (no
> continuity between 2 and 3), and the starter is enabled (continuity
> between 4 and 5).
>
> I hope that helps..
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>>
>>
>> Group:
>>
>> I have a quick question regarding how the mags are wired to toggle
>> switches as illustrated in drawing Z-11.
>>
>> As wired in this schematic, if you place the right mag to "on" and then
>> engage the starter via the left mag/start switch, does this ground out
>> both mags so that you can turn the engine over with the ignition
>> essentially off?
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>> Jeff Orear
>> RV6A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
Greetings,
This month is wiring month for my Lancair Legacy. My preliminary load analysis
for each electrical bus is presented for review and comment. Composite airplane,
engine in front, 75 amp main alternator, SD-8 aux alternator, single battery,
Z-13/8 all electric on a budget with overweight E-Bus. Chelton Sport glass
cockpit with backups for airspeed, altimeter, and electric attitude indicator
(TruTrak ADI). IFR and night flights anticipated. The "Typ Amps" represents
the typical continuous current in cruise flight.
I'm curious if anyone has comments regarding which components are on each bus.
Battery Bus Load Analysis
Fuse
Typ Amps
Baggage area dome light
5
1-2
Clock
1
-
Panel flood lights
3
.5
Map lights
3
.5
Electronic ignition
5
2
Alternate feed to E bus
20
-
Total Battery Bus Loads
4-5 amps
E-Bus Load Analysis
Fuse
Typ Amps
Elevator trim servo
1
-
Roll & yaw trim servos
2
-
Transponder & altitude encoder
3
1.5
Audio panel & headsets
2
.4
Gear down lights & O2 regulators
1
-
Engine info system (GRT)
3
.2
Com radio
5
.3 (3.2 max)
Autopilot
5
.5 (2.5 max)
Instrument panel lights
1
.2
Chelton display #1
5
2.5
Chelton display #2
5
2.5
Attitude/heading ref system
2
.2
Total E-Bus Loads
9 (14 max)
Other Loads
Hydraulic pump for landing gear
40ANL
-
Main alternator field C.B.
5
-
Auxiliary alternator field C.B.
5
-
Main Bus Load Analysis
Fuse
Typ Amps
Angle of attack indicator
1
.2
Fuel boost pump
10
-
VOR receiver
2
1
Wingtip position lights (LEDs)
?
?
Wingtip strobe lights
?
?
Wing flaps motor
7
-
Taxi light
7
-
Landing light
7
-
Pitot heat
30
- (11 in use)
Avionics cooling fan
3
.5
Cockpit electric heat
15
- (10 in use)
Backup electric attitude indicator
?
?
Normal feed to E-Bus
20
9 (14 max)
Total Main Bus Loads
16 (42 max)
Best,
Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy wiring this month
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mag switches |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Without adding jumpers, or more switches, it won't happen.. In order to
engage the starter, the left mag switch will have terminals 1 and 2
connected, which will enable the left magneto (because terminal 1 isn't
connected to anything). For diagnostic purposes, you could connect
terminal 1 to ground. Then the left mag would be disabled.
Matt-
>
>
> Thanks Matt.
>
> I guess what I really want to know is how do you turn an engine over as
> wired in Z11 without the mags hot?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: mag switches
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hello Jeff,
>>
>> The way I interpret the drawing is that when the right mag is "on",
>> the starter circuit is disabled. In other words, when the right mag
>> is on (disconnecting 2 from 3), continuity between terminals 5 and 6
>> is broken, which disables the starter circuit.
>>
>> The drawing shows the right mag switch in the OFF-START position.
>>
>> With the switch selected as drawn, the right mag is grounded out
>> (disabled) via continuity between terminals 2 and 3.
>>
>> The drawing shows the left mag grounded out (disabled) via terminals 2
>> and 3.
>>
>> The drawing shows the starter circuit is disabled because terminals 4
>> and 5 on the left mag aren't connected.
>>
>> As drawn, if the left mag switch is moved, the left mag is disabled.
>> If it is moved to its full opposite position, the left mag is enabled
>> (no continuity between 2 and 3), and the starter is enabled
>> (continuity between 4 and 5).
>>
>> I hope that helps..
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Matt-
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Group:
>>>
>>> I have a quick question regarding how the mags are wired to toggle
>>> switches as illustrated in drawing Z-11.
>>>
>>> As wired in this schematic, if you place the right mag to "on" and
>>> then engage the starter via the left mag/start switch, does this
>>> ground out both mags so that you can turn the engine over with the
>>> ignition essentially off?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Orear
>>> RV6A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Disregard Load Analysis |
Greetings,
Please disregard my previous posting, "Load Analysis," because an apparent formatting
problem makes it unreadable. I'll post a readable version tomorrow.
Dennis Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | ELT Antenna Length |
Just a thought...
While the various ELT antenna solutions that have been presented are fine
for 121.5 MHz units, would they also work for the 121.5/406 MHz units that
use a "combined" antenna, such as the Artex ME406?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me not
to
>ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
>need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will that
>adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult.
Can
>anyone suggest another solution?
I did some tests on a bizjet installation where we substituted
a "rubber-duck" of a VHF-Comm hand-held for a full sized 21 inch
antenna. Differences in gain and pattern were barely discernable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: E-Bus Avionics Switch ? |
In a message dated 1/9/06 9:27:42 PM Central Standard Time,
billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
> what would the downsides
> be of adding a S704 contactor between the D25 and E-Bus so that you
> effectively used the whole E-bus as an Avionics bus.
>>>>
Wouldn't a simple SPST switch of the proper rating be simpler and more
reliable? You'd still have to remember to shut it off at shutdown or check it
prior
to turning on master, but this would apply to the contactor as well, I
assume...
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Antenna Length |
>
>Just a thought...
>
>While the various ELT antenna solutions that have been presented are fine
>for 121.5 MHz units, would they also work for the 121.5/406 MHz units that
>use a "combined" antenna, such as the Artex ME406?
No . . . multi-frequency antennas use combinations of features
that maximize performance in two or more frequencies. Generally
speaking, ALL components have some effect at ALL frequencies
of interest . . . so fiddling with components having major effects
at 121.5 is likely to affect 406 performance.
Techniques we use to shorten or broadband single frequency antennas
are likely to hose other frequencies in multi-frequency antennas.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
Bob et al,
I'm trying to mount the antenna inside the airfoiled section of my vertical
stabilizer, just above my ELT. The wood ribs on the vertical stabilizer are
oriented horizontally. It is a tube & fabric airplane with the vertical
stabilizer already covered. The fuselage is not yet covered. I want to
mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage & extend the antenna up into
the already covered portion of the vert stab.
The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base out
of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the third
one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained idea of just
cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
I'm open to any suggestions, but moving the location of the antenna is
highly UN desirable to me
I read the post about using a 'rubber ducky' antenna, but have no idea what
one is & can't find any reference in the A/C Spruce catalog.
Thanks for the attention already given,
Grant
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
Grant,
Is this antenna "inside" or does it mount out in the breeze?
Bob . . .
>
>
>Grant,
>If you were able to add a "loading" coil to the antenna correctly, this
>would allow you to shorten the current antenna. You would need a guru type
>friend that knew antennas to accomplish this for you. However, I would bet
>that a search of the web via Google would find a manufacturer that makes
>the
>"loaded" antennas for the frequency that you need.
>David
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
> >
> >
> > I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me
>not
> > to
> > ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location, I
> > need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will
>that
> > adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult.
> > Can
> > anyone suggest another solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Grant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
In a message dated 1/10/2006 10:48:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,
tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com writes:
The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base out
of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the third
one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained idea of just
cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
Good Morning Grant,
Have you tried brazing the drill bit to a length of welding rod?
That is a relatively simple way to get a very long drill.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
Can't you locate or make an extra long drill bit to bore the last hole by
welding on a bit extension?
I would not advise cutting the antenna especially if it is a dual frequency
antenna as Bob described.
Something else to consider. In a crash, and especially an upset, you want
that antenna to survive. If the vertical stab is heavily damaged or torn
away, will the antenna remain intact?
I have wondered about a method to install 2 ELT antenna's. One on top and
one on the bottom for the situation where one gets heavily damaged or
scraped off. But, the interface to two antennas with a single transmitter
is beyond my understanding concerning the impedance matching problems with 1
or 2 surviving antennas. I have also wondered about installing 2 ELT's with
separate antennas, each in a different location hoping that one or both
survive. But, then there is the problem of them both being activated and
how that double transmission on the same frequency(s) would effect the folks
that are trying to locate you.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
> Bob et al,
>
> I'm trying to mount the antenna inside the airfoiled section of my
> vertical
> stabilizer, just above my ELT. The wood ribs on the vertical stabilizer
> are
> oriented horizontally. It is a tube & fabric airplane with the vertical
> stabilizer already covered. The fuselage is not yet covered. I want to
> mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage & extend the antenna up into
> the already covered portion of the vert stab.
> The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base
> out
> of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
> drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the
> third
> one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained idea of
> just
> cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
> I'm open to any suggestions, but moving the location of the antenna is
> highly UN desirable to me
> I read the post about using a 'rubber ducky' antenna, but have no idea
> what
> one is & can't find any reference in the A/C Spruce catalog.
>
> Thanks for the attention already given,
> Grant
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
>
> Grant,
>
> Is this antenna "inside" or does it mount out in the breeze?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>>
>>
>>Grant,
>>If you were able to add a "loading" coil to the antenna correctly, this
>>would allow you to shorten the current antenna. You would need a guru
>>type
>>friend that knew antennas to accomplish this for you. However, I would
>>bet
>>that a search of the web via Google would find a manufacturer that makes
>>the
>>"loaded" antennas for the frequency that you need.
>>David
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for me
>>not
>> > to
>> > ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best location,
>> > I
>> > need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8 inches. Will
>>that
>> > adversely affect performance? Another location will be very difficult.
>> > Can
>> > anyone suggest another solution?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Grant
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Maybe have a look at this..
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/vertex_antenna.php
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Bob et al,
>
> I'm trying to mount the antenna inside the airfoiled section of my
> vertical stabilizer, just above my ELT. The wood ribs on the vertical
> stabilizer are oriented horizontally. It is a tube & fabric airplane
> with the vertical stabilizer already covered. The fuselage is not yet
> covered. I want to mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage &
> extend the antenna up into the already covered portion of the vert
> stab.
> The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base
> out of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod.
> I drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the
> third one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained
> idea of just cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
> I'm open to any suggestions, but moving the location of the antenna is
> highly UN desirable to me
> I read the post about using a 'rubber ducky' antenna, but have no idea
> what one is & can't find any reference in the A/C Spruce catalog.
>
> Thanks for the attention already given,
> Grant
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
>
> Grant,
>
> Is this antenna "inside" or does it mount out in the breeze?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>>
>>
>>Grant,
>>If you were able to add a "loading" coil to the antenna correctly, this
>> would allow you to shorten the current antenna. You would need a guru
>> type friend that knew antennas to accomplish this for you. However, I
>> would bet that a search of the web via Google would find a manufacturer
>> that makes the
>>"loaded" antennas for the frequency that you need.
>>David
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Length
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I know this is a dumb question, but I think it would be dummer for
>> me
>>not
>> > to
>> > ask: In order for it to fit in what I believe to be the best
>> location, I need to shorten my ELT antenna from 21 inches to 19-3/8
>> inches. Will
>>that
>> > adversely affect performance? Another location will be very
>> difficult. Can
>> > anyone suggest another solution?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Grant
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
>
>Bob et al,
>
>I'm trying to mount the antenna inside the airfoiled section of my vertical
>stabilizer, just above my ELT. The wood ribs on the vertical stabilizer are
>oriented horizontally. It is a tube & fabric airplane with the vertical
>stabilizer already covered. The fuselage is not yet covered. I want to
>mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage & extend the antenna up into
>the already covered portion of the vert stab.
>The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base out
>of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
>drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the third
>one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained idea of just
>cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
>I'm open to any suggestions, but moving the location of the antenna is
>highly UN desirable to me
>I read the post about using a 'rubber ducky' antenna, but have no idea what
>one is & can't find any reference in the A/C Spruce catalog.
>
>Thanks for the attention already given,
Are you planning any kind of ground plane under the
antenna? You'd like to see a some "radials" like those
illustrated in the 'Conection on page 13-10. Even if
two or three (one going forward and two to either side
on the stabilizer?).
Getting the antenna portion shortened a tad is not
a big deal . . . but you need some radials too. Got
any ideas how to make this happen?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Clabots" <gclabots(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | AOA audio Input To Intercom |
Looking for a way to get the AOA audio into my intercom or headset.
I have a Appollo GX 60 and a PS Engineering PS 1000II intercom.
If i put it in the music input of the intercom it mutes when any transmission is
present.
Could I possibly wire it into my headset jack without problems?
Looking for a solution short of adding a audio panel.
Thanks Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Revised Load Analysis |
Greetings,
I'm hoping that the formatting survives this time!
This month is wiring month for my Lancair Legacy. My preliminary load analysis
for each electrical bus is presented for review and comment. Composite airplane,
engine in front, 75 amp main alternator, SD-8 aux alternator, single battery,
Z-13/8 all electric on a budget with overweight E-Bus. Chelton Sport glass
cockpit with backups for airspeed, altimeter, and electric attitude indicator
(TruTrak ADI). IFR and night flights anticipated. The "Typ Amps" represents
the typical continuous current in cruise flight.
I'm curious if anyone has comments regarding which components are on each bus.
Battery Bus:
Baggage area dome light 1-2 amps
Clock -
Panel flood lights .5
Map lights .5
Electronic ignition 2
Alternate feed to E-Bus -
Total battery bus loads 4-5 amps
E-Bus:
Elevator trim servo -
Roll & yaw trim servos -
Transponder & altitude encoder 1.5
Audio panel & headsets .4
Gear down lights & O2 regulators -
Engine info system (GRT) .2
Com radio .3 (3.2 max)
Autopilot .5 (2.5 max, including servos)
Instrument panel lights .2
Chelton display #1 2.5
Chelton display #2 2.5
Attitude heading reference sys .2
Total E-Bus loads 9 (14 max)
Main Bus:
Angle of attack indicator .2
Fuel boost pump -
VOR receiver 1
Wingtip position lights (LEDs) ?
Wingtip strobe lights ?
Wing flaps motor -
Taxi light -
Landing light -
Pitot heat - (11 when in use)
Avionics cooling fan .5
Backup electric attitude indicator ?
Normal feed to E-Bus 9 (14 max)
Total Main Bus 16 (42 max)
Other:
Hydraulic pump for landing gear - (40 amp ANL fuse)
Thanks,
Dennis Johnson
Legacy #257, wiring this month
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA audio Input To Intercom |
Gerry,
I wired mine directly to the headset audio jack and it works just fine. The
only thing is I'm the only one that will hear "angle, angle, push", which is
probably a good thing.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Clabots" <gclabots(at)execpc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AOA audio Input To Intercom
>
>
> Looking for a way to get the AOA audio into my intercom or headset.
> I have a Appollo GX 60 and a PS Engineering PS 1000II intercom.
> If i put it in the music input of the intercom it mutes when any
> transmission is present.
> Could I possibly wire it into my headset jack without problems?
> Looking for a solution short of adding a audio panel.
> Thanks Gerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AOA audio Input To Intercom |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Gerry -
Which AOA do your have? We wired our Proprietary Software AOA Sport to the
"unswitched audio" pin on the GArmin 340. The PSE box must have something
similar. If they do not, wire it to the ADF pin and placard that button on
the bezel as "AOA" and make sure it is punched on when you fly. This
assumes that you are not bothering with an ADF radio in your shiny new
OBAM experimental.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
Lancair ES - in Paint Shop
>
> Looking for a way to get the AOA audio into my intercom or headset.
> I have a Appollo GX 60 and a PS Engineering PS 1000II intercom.
> If i put it in the music input of the intercom it mutes when any
> transmission is present.
> Could I possibly wire it into my headset jack without problems?
> Looking for a solution short of adding a audio panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Length |
Go to a wood working store/catalog and by a drill bit for boring through
lamp bases ~18" long, then you could go up through all three ribs if I
understand your statement below correctly.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
I want to
> mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage & extend the antenna up into
> the already covered portion of the vert stab.
> The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base
> out
> of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
> drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the
> third
> one I can't reach with a drill bit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
Re: ELTs. Something to look at...
Someday aviation will catch up to ham radio, where we've already developed
a system that displays the current location of everybody who wants to
participate. You can call it Big Brother, but it's voluntary and we built
it for ourselves, and in aviation it sure might come in handy if you have a
7700 situation. Here's what Texas looks like right now in real time:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/dmap.cgi?map=txstate.mp&last=24&maplist=master.txt&width=640&height=480
Dave Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Common Grounding -Forest of tabs |
Message-ID: <001301c61686$7bdd3080$082210ac@taroom.local>
Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Dear Bob N,
Because I have a removable instrument panel, it seems to me that it
might be a good idea to have a forest of ground tabs on the engine side
of the firewall and the other set affixed to the instrument panel proper
with a heavy connecting wire between them.
If I used say a 10 awg wire to join the two over a distance of about
300mm, would this be likely to give rise to the dreaded ground loop ? I
imagine not but I am not really sure hence my call for confirmation or
otherwise.
Your assistance is much appreciated as always.
Kingsley Hurst in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Revised Load Analysis |
I would put the Avionics cooling fan and Chelton display 2 on the main bus
to reduce e-bus load.
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
L R Helming
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Revised Load Analysis
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm hoping that the formatting survives this time!
>
> This month is wiring month for my Lancair Legacy. My preliminary load
> analysis
> for each electrical bus is presented for review and comment. Composite
> airplane,
> engine in front, 75 amp main alternator, SD-8 aux alternator, single
> battery,
> Z-13/8 all electric on a budget with overweight E-Bus. Chelton Sport
> glass
> cockpit with backups for airspeed, altimeter, and electric attitude
> indicator
> (TruTrak ADI). IFR and night flights anticipated. The "Typ Amps"
> represents
> the typical continuous current in cruise flight.
>
> I'm curious if anyone has comments regarding which components are on each
> bus.
>
> Battery Bus:
>
> Baggage area dome light 1-2 amps
> Clock -
> Panel flood lights .5
> Map lights .5
> Electronic ignition 2
> Alternate feed to E-Bus -
> Total battery bus loads 4-5 amps
>
>
> E-Bus:
>
> Elevator trim servo -
> Roll & yaw trim servos -
> Transponder & altitude encoder 1.5
> Audio panel & headsets .4
> Gear down lights & O2 regulators -
> Engine info system (GRT) .2
> Com radio .3 (3.2 max)
> Autopilot .5 (2.5 max,
> including servos)
> Instrument panel lights .2
> Chelton display #1 2.5
> Chelton display #2 2.5
> Attitude heading reference sys .2
> Total E-Bus loads 9 (14 max)
>
>
> Main Bus:
>
> Angle of attack indicator .2
> Fuel boost pump -
> VOR receiver 1
> Wingtip position lights (LEDs) ?
> Wingtip strobe lights ?
> Wing flaps motor -
> Taxi light -
> Landing light -
> Pitot heat - (11 when in use)
> Avionics cooling fan .5
> Backup electric attitude indicator ?
> Normal feed to E-Bus 9 (14 max)
> Total Main Bus 16 (42 max)
>
> Other:
>
> Hydraulic pump for landing gear - (40 amp ANL fuse)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Johnson
> Legacy #257, wiring this month
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding -Forest of tabs |
>
>
>Dear Bob N,
>
>Because I have a removable instrument panel, it seems to me that it
>might be a good idea to have a forest of ground tabs on the engine side
>of the firewall and the other set affixed to the instrument panel proper
>with a heavy connecting wire between them.
>
>If I used say a 10 awg wire to join the two over a distance of about
>300mm, would this be likely to give rise to the dreaded ground loop ? I
>imagine not but I am not really sure hence my call for confirmation or
>otherwise.
>
>Your assistance is much appreciated as always.
Have you looked over the Avionics (panel) ground
bus architecture proposed in the latest revision
to the 'Connection?
This gathering of all panel grounds into a simpler,
lower wire count extension to the firewall sounds
like what you're wanting to do. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/AVG_RA.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Avionics_Bus_3.jpg
Page 18-12 in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf
and Z-figures in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Avionics_Bus_3.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:
>
> Re: ELTs. Something to look at...
>
> Someday aviation will catch up to ham radio, where we've already developed
> a system that displays the current location of everybody who wants to
> participate.
Aviation already has it. It is called ADS-B.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA audio Input To Intercom |
I was advised by Rob to wire to the unswitched audio pin on my audio panel, he
advised against wiring it direct to the headset jack. My recommendation is to
look over the pin diagram for your unit and call Rob with that in hand.
Bob Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | AOA audio Input To Intercom |
The point seems to have been missed that the OP did not have an audio panel,
and had no desire to install one.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Karen
and Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA audio Input To Intercom
I was advised by Rob to wire to the unswitched audio pin on my audio panel,
he advised against wiring it direct to the headset jack. My recommendation
is to look over the pin diagram for your unit and call Rob with that in
hand.
Bob Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Common Grounding -Forest of tabs (With Link Correction) |
>Dear Bob N,
>
>Because I have a removable instrument panel, it seems to me that it
>might be a good idea to have a forest of ground tabs on the engine side
>of the firewall and the other set affixed to the instrument panel proper
>with a heavy connecting wire between them.
>
>If I used say a 10 awg wire to join the two over a distance of about
>300mm, would this be likely to give rise to the dreaded ground loop ? I
>imagine not but I am not really sure hence my call for confirmation or
>otherwise.
>
>Your assistance is much appreciated as always.
Have you looked over the Avionics (panel) ground
bus architecture proposed in the latest revision
to the 'Connection?
This gathering of all panel grounds into a simpler,
lower wire count extension to the firewall sounds
like what you're wanting to do. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/AVG_RA.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Avionics_Bus_3.jpg
Page 18-12 in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf
and Z-figures in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11E.pdf
Bob . . .
--
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob & list,
Thank You all for the many helpful suggestions. I feel sorta silly not to
have thought of some of them myself, so thanks for your patience &
willingness to point out what may seem obvious to you.
As for installing the radials, one to the front will be easy & off to one
side will be short (maybe 2.5 inches) but there is no room to the other side
or back, at least if I want to stay in the same 'plane' as the base of the
antenna, which I believe is important. Is there a way to incorporate the
'silver spray' portion of the polyfiber finishing system into the antenna?
The 'silver spray' is basically a thin sheet of aluminum used to protect the
fabric from UV rays.
Thanks again for all the help. This list is a GREAT resource.
Grant
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT Antenna Length
>
>
>Bob et al,
>
>I'm trying to mount the antenna inside the airfoiled section of my vertical
>stabilizer, just above my ELT. The wood ribs on the vertical stabilizer
>are
>oriented horizontally. It is a tube & fabric airplane with the vertical
>stabilizer already covered. The fuselage is not yet covered. I want to
>mount the base of the antenna in the fuselage & extend the antenna up into
>the already covered portion of the vert stab.
>The antenna that came with my ELT has a ~3" high rubber cone at the base
>out
>of which extends about 18 more inches of small diameter metal rod. I
>drilled small holes in the bottom two ribs of the stabilizer, but the third
>one I can't reach with a drill bit. So I got the hair brained idea of just
>cutting off ~1.5 inches of the antenna.
>I'm open to any suggestions, but moving the location of the antenna is
>highly UN desirable to me
>I read the post about using a 'rubber ducky' antenna, but have no idea what
>one is & can't find any reference in the A/C Spruce catalog.
>
>Thanks for the attention already given,
Are you planning any kind of ground plane under the
antenna? You'd like to see a some "radials" like those
illustrated in the 'Conection on page 13-10. Even if
two or three (one going forward and two to either side
on the stabilizer?).
Getting the antenna portion shortened a tad is not
a big deal . . . but you need some radials too. Got
any ideas how to make this happen?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "richard titsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Common Grounding |
Bob, etal,
Ok, here comes perhaps a silly/stupid question (flamesuit in place)...
I'm building a composite airplane with AFT batteries (Lancair ES).
This would normally result in two large wires/cables running from the aft
batteries/contactors up to the firewall/engine (alt and starter) - one live
(+) and one ground (-).
If it were a metal aircraft the airframe itself would/could provide the
return ground circuit - hence only 1 "wire".
Q: Why not incorporate/embed a "solid" electrical conductor (ground) which
runs the length of the fuselage. For example, this could be an
appropriately sized aluminum bar/rod/strap. It could be properly
fabricated/shaped and molded/bonded to the fuselage to reduce/remove
vibrational stresses/hardening. The ends could be fabricated/welded to
interface/bolt directly with the contactors (aft) and ground buss (fwd) to
minimize connections. This might save a few lbs, $, and wire ties (andel
clamps). If nothing else, it would/could be a very "clean" looking
installation with no added risk/cost/weight/etc.
If properly designed/routed, it could perhaps also be used as the ground for
a few other (not ground loop sensitive) devices/circuits which might lie
along its path (flap motor, boost pump, seat heaters, etc). Thus,
economizing on some ground wiring.
Risk/concern: failure of the insulation on the +wire could result in a short
if contact is made - same risk as with a metal aircraft. Routing proximity
could reduce this risk and/or the rod/bar/strap could be covered with a thin
layer of glass/epoxy.
Risk/concern: durability/corrosion - My 30yr old aluminum Cessna still looks
brand new under the inspection panels. Epoxy/glass and/or
paint/zinc-chromate to environmentally protect it.
Risk/concern: serviceability/inspection - 1-2 bid E-glass and epoxy is
nearly transparent. I could see it's condition (something impossible inside
wire insulation)
Risk/concern: if it gets too hot/melts it might damage the fuselage due to
the proximity (bolded in). Must be properly sized. Best if it is routed
away from sensitive stuff if possible (wing spar, fuel lines, etc). Similar
risk with cable (at the extreme), but the wire/cable insulation provides
some teat transfer resistance/insulation. .
Insanity continued.
If it works for the ground, why not do the same with the main live (+)
wire/cable. Since I'm early in the build process, this "big" electrical
conduit (wire/cable) doesn't need to be "flexible". I can shape it and
build the plane around it.
Thoughts? (Commence firing)!
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Beta Test - MasterMinder and Courtesy Switch products |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
I am building two products for experimental aircraft. I am looking for a
couple people to test the units.
- MasterMinder. This unit will sit past the contactor and
monitor a switched bus. It has a SonAlert to indicate loss of
Alternator and to remind if you leave the master on. It has a mute
switch to allow the beeper to be turned off for a period of time, like
for service. Normal operation is a single beep as the master is turned
on. This indicates that the system is armed. After starting, it
monitors the bus voltage. If the bus falls below about 13.4 Volts, the
system beeps once, then again (and more annoyingly) every minute.
Pushing the optional mute button mutes it for 1,2,5,10, or 30 minutes.
On shutdown you get a single beep as the engine winds down. But then you
get periodic beeps every minute after shutdown, indicating you left the
master on. It has an optional voltage display and / or idiot light
outputs.
- Smart Accessory Switch. For planes with lights or other
accessories on the hot buss, it is always annoying to find that some
load has been left on far longer than you want. In my plane, I have a
passenger light that kids play with and leave on. It is hard to detect
during the day. So I build the smart switch. It monitors buss voltage.
If the alternator is on, the switch is dumb - just an on-off. However,
if the buss voltage drops, the smart switch starts a timer to power off
the load after a pre-set time. In my case, I have the switch auto-power
off after 10 minutes. This lets me deplane with light, but catches the
case where the light is left on. If the unit powers off too soon, you
just toggle the switch off then back on, restarting the timer.
I would appreciate any thoughts about the functionality of these devices
(They are software based - so features can change)
I am also looking for a couple testers who will fly the devices and give
me user feedback from packaging to installation to usability. Devices
will be free to the testers. Expected pricing is under $100.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
Greetings
Im beginning to get up to speed in preparation for installation of my
RV-7's electrical system, but have some remaining questions. Regarding
Bob's Z-13 architecture:
(1) I see no protection built in for the wire between the battery contactor
and the main bus. Why would this be? In my case,, this wire will need to
run from the front of the firewall to somewhere on my subpanel, so the wire
length isnt entirely trivial.
(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a fusible
link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just have the
wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other circuits? I
know Im missing something...
Thanks. How did people wire planes before the list?
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Beta Test - MasterMinder and Courtesy Switch products |
Just a thought, but since a large number of pilots wear headphones, many
with active noise reduction, you might consider adding some sort of tone
generator, and provide an audio output which could be fed to the aircraft's
audio panel...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
Beadle
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Beta Test - MasterMinder and Courtesy Switch
products
I am building two products for experimental aircraft. I am looking for a
couple people to test the units.
- MasterMinder. This unit will sit past the contactor and
monitor a switched bus. It has a SonAlert to indicate loss of
Alternator and to remind if you leave the master on. It has a mute
switch to allow the beeper to be turned off for a period of time, like
for service. Normal operation is a single beep as the master is turned
on. This indicates that the system is armed. After starting, it
monitors the bus voltage. If the bus falls below about 13.4 Volts, the
system beeps once, then again (and more annoyingly) every minute.
Pushing the optional mute button mutes it for 1,2,5,10, or 30 minutes.
On shutdown you get a single beep as the engine winds down. But then you
get periodic beeps every minute after shutdown, indicating you left the
master on. It has an optional voltage display and / or idiot light
outputs.
- Smart Accessory Switch. For planes with lights or other
accessories on the hot buss, it is always annoying to find that some
load has been left on far longer than you want. In my plane, I have a
passenger light that kids play with and leave on. It is hard to detect
during the day. So I build the smart switch. It monitors buss voltage.
If the alternator is on, the switch is dumb - just an on-off. However,
if the buss voltage drops, the smart switch starts a timer to power off
the load after a pre-set time. In my case, I have the switch auto-power
off after 10 minutes. This lets me deplane with light, but catches the
case where the light is left on. If the unit powers off too soon, you
just toggle the switch off then back on, restarting the timer.
I would appreciate any thoughts about the functionality of these devices
(They are software based - so features can change)
I am also looking for a couple testers who will fly the devices and give
me user feedback from packaging to installation to usability. Devices
will be free to the testers. Expected pricing is under $100.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna radials |
>
>Bob & list,
>
>Thank You all for the many helpful suggestions. I feel sorta silly not to
>have thought of some of them myself, so thanks for your patience &
>willingness to point out what may seem obvious to you.
>
>As for installing the radials, one to the front will be easy & off to one
>side will be short (maybe 2.5 inches) but there is no room to the other side
>or back, at least if I want to stay in the same 'plane' as the base of the
>antenna, which I believe is important. Is there a way to incorporate the
>'silver spray' portion of the polyfiber finishing system into the antenna?
>The 'silver spray' is basically a thin sheet of aluminum used to protect the
>fabric from UV rays.
>
>Thanks again for all the help. This list is a GREAT resource.
The full length radial to the front is 99% of your radial
effectiveness . . . short ones like 2.5" is of no practical value
at 121.5 Mhz. Conductive sprays are useful for attenuating
outside interference on non-conductive cases . . . it is
extremely difficult to make a long-lived, low-resistance
connection to conductive film on a resilient substrate. Been
there, tried that, didn't work.
Run the single, full length, radial forward. Make it as WIDE
as practical . . . perhaps wrap it down each side of the
structure.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
>
>
>Bob, etal,
>
>
>Ok, here comes perhaps a silly/stupid question (flamesuit in place)...
>
>
>I'm building a composite airplane with AFT batteries (Lancair ES).
>
>This would normally result in two large wires/cables running from the aft
>batteries/contactors up to the firewall/engine (alt and starter) - one live
>(+) and one ground (-).
>
>
>If it were a metal aircraft the airframe itself would/could provide the
>return ground circuit - hence only 1 "wire".
>
>
>Q: Why not incorporate/embed a "solid" electrical conductor (ground) which
>runs the length of the fuselage. For example, this could be an
>appropriately sized aluminum bar/rod/strap. It could be properly
>fabricated/shaped and molded/bonded to the fuselage to reduce/remove
>vibrational stresses/hardening. The ends could be fabricated/welded to
>interface/bolt directly with the contactors (aft) and ground buss (fwd) to
>minimize connections. This might save a few lbs, $, and wire ties (andel
>clamps). If nothing else, it would/could be a very "clean" looking
>installation with no added risk/cost/weight/etc.
Depends on how much time you want to spend on it. 2AWG copper is
4 oz per foot. Assuming 8' of cable from battery to firewall
gives you 2# of installed weight.
2AWG is about .25" diameter or .05 square-in of cross section.
Alum is 63% conductivity of copper so you'll need about
0.08 square-in of alum. A piece of 0.050" x 1.6" wide fills
the bill. 96" x .05 x 1.6 is 7.7 cu" of aluminum. 0.1 pound
per cubic inch is about 0.8 pounds.
Expected weight savings is about 1.2 pounds. You could bring
the strap up the inside of the firewall and clamp it up to
the firewall ground bus. If you used copper strap, you could
solder it to the ground strap for a really good joint.
>Risk/concern: failure of the insulation on the +wire could result in a short
>if contact is made - same risk as with a metal aircraft. Routing proximity
>could reduce this risk and/or the rod/bar/strap could be covered with a thin
>layer of glass/epoxy.
Not significant . . .
>
>
>Risk/concern: durability/corrosion - My 30yr old aluminum Cessna still looks
>brand new under the inspection panels. Epoxy/glass and/or
>paint/zinc-chromate to environmentally protect it.
Corrosion of the surface of any conductor is not a big
driver for electrical performance. All the important stuff
happens in the gas-tight joints between various components.
>
>
>Risk/concern: serviceability/inspection - 1-2 bid E-glass and epoxy is
>nearly transparent. I could see it's condition (something impossible inside
>wire insulation)
>
>
>Risk/concern: if it gets too hot/melts it might damage the fuselage due to
>the proximity (bolded in). Must be properly sized. Best if it is routed
>away from sensitive stuff if possible (wing spar, fuel lines, etc). Similar
>risk with cable (at the extreme), but the wire/cable insulation provides
>some teat transfer resistance/insulation. .
It's in LESS danger of overheating and melting than a 2AWG
wire. Wire has less surface area and rejects heat poorly
compared to a flat strap.
>If it works for the ground, why not do the same with the main live (+)
>wire/cable. Since I'm early in the build process, this "big" electrical
>conduit (wire/cable) doesn't need to be "flexible". I can shape it and
>build the plane around it.
It's been done. I've had canard pusher builders lay parallel
straps up under a layer of glass in the fuselage. Most of them
used copper for integrity of soldered joints at the ends.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Buzzing Buttons.... |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Ran across this--
>From issue 2533 of New Scientist magazine, 07 January 2006, page 19
Buzzing buttons cancel car noise
"DOZENS of vibrating buttons dotted around cars could give passengers a quieter
ride. Attached to components around the vehicle, the coin-sized buttons will
cancel out the vibrations that cause much of the noise inside a typical car.
Each button contains an accelerometer that detects the vibration frequency of the
component it is attached to, plus a controller unit and a piezoelectric actuator.
Software algorithms built into the controller calculate the frequency necessary
to dampen the vibration. The controller then applies a voltage of this
frequency to the actuator.
A research team, led by Arthur Berkhoff at the Dutch research organisation TNO,
has already built the sensor and actuator. The next step is to miniaturise the
circuitry without it overheating..."
Now I can think of some places to use these guys! Since it uses technology that
was pioneered in the noise cancelling headsets, I can imagine a quieter world
in the very near future.
Eric M. Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2968#2968
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Cc: ,
1/11/2006
Hello Wayne, I'll give it a shot. (See Wayne's request copied below).
1) You wrote: "......skip..... the unit must meet the the guidelines per
TSO-C129, however changing they may be."
The current version of TSO-C129 is TSO C129a dated 2/20/1996. It has been
almost 10 years since there have been any changes to that TSO. So any
argument that one tries to make that compliance is difficult because of
changes to the TSO is not very valid.
I also think that it is rather useless for individuals to talk about
compliance with a TSO or equivalent. TSO's are basically shell documents and
the real guts of a TSO lies in all the technical references that a TSO
usually contains. (TSO-C129a is much better than most in that regard -- it
actually has some specific content.) Even if an individual spent all the
money and time to assemble all the references it would then take tremendous
technical, financial, and material resources to attempt to comply with them
and to prove to the FAA that you were complying with them.
The fact of the matter is that individuals either comply with TSO-C129a by
buying a box so labeled or they are not in compliance. It is much more
relevant to be discussing an individual's compliance with the FAR's and the
AIM.
2) You wrote: " We have a fellow who thinks he can use the GPS in a Blue
Mountain EFIS 1 for primary nav in the enroute phase."
3) The Blue Mountain web site FAQ list contains this: "Question: Is EFIS/One
certified for GPS approaches?
Answer: On the advice of our most trusted avionics dealer and partner, we
have decided not to pursue it. For what it will cost to do TSO C129A testing
and certification, we'd have to raise the price of the EFIS by more than the
cost of a high-volume certified unit. We think it's a better deal to have a
reasonably priced glass cockpit, and the interconnect available for those
who want to fly GPS approaches. If you have a certified GPS, you can plug it
in to drive the flight director and autopilot in approach mode."
So that clearly establishes that the Blue Mountain EFIS does not meet the
criteria of TSO-C129a.
4) Your subject line says GPS IFR flight.
AIM paragraph 1-1-19 d. 1. says "Authorization to conduct any GPS operation
under IFR requires that:
(a) "GPS navigation equipment used must be approved in accordance with the
requirements specified in Technical Standard Order (TSO) TSO-C129, or
equivalent,....skip...."
Note 4 to Table 1-1-6 in the AIM says "VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not
authorized for IFR navigation, instrument approaches, or as a primary
instrument flight reference. During IFR operations they may be considered
only an aid to situational awareness."
AIM paragraph 1-1-19 d. 1. (b) says "Aircraft using GPS navigation equipment
under IFR must be equipped with an approved and operational alternate means
of navigation appropriate to the flight."
CFR 14 Sec. 91.205 (d) (2) requires "Two-way radio communications system and
navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used."
Seems pretty clear to me that the GPS capability in a Blue Mountain EFIS
cannot be used as a primary means of IFR enroute navigation. If this fellow
has a counter argument I'd like to read it along with the pertinent
references.
5) But there is nothing stopping the fellow from launching off on a VOR
filed IFR flight plan and then working the ATC system to allow him to go as
direct as they and his GPS will allow him to. The gotcha is that he better
be ready to ready at any time to navigate by VOR.
OC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hicks, Wayne" <wayne.hicks(at)zeltech.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:55 PM
Subject: IFR GPS
>I need your insight again. We have a fellow who thinks he can use the GPS
> in a Blue Mountain EFIS 1 for primary nav in the enroute phase.
>
> I thought you and I discussed that the unit must meet the guidelines per
> TSO-C129, however changing they may be. And that the AC 20-138
> installation
> requirements are not regulatory to homebuilts. I think we established
> that
> the only GPS units that currently meet all these requirements are the
> big-boy Garmin, Kings, etc that are currently certified in certified
> aircraft.
>
> I told my buddy that Blue Mountain can't meet these.
>
> ====================
> L. Wayne Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Revised Load Analysis |
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
[quote="lhelming(at)sigecom.net"]I would put the Avionics cooling fan and Chelton
display 2 on the main bus
to reduce e-bus load."
Thanks for the thoughts! I agree with the cooling fan on the main bus, but I'm
not sure about the Chelton display #2, which will be my primary navigation source.
I suppose I could engage the autopilot and then switch the Chelton #1 display
to the navigation page and then switch back. On the other hand, the display
has an off switch, so I could manually turn off display #2 until it was
needed.
Good food for thought,
Dennis Johnson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3126#3126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Revised Load Analysis |
Can't the Chelton "split-screen"? Show the PFD AND the Map page on the #1
display. Turn off #2 until you are within safe distance to an airport. I
would also put your fuel pump on the Battery Bus.
Bret Smith
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Revised Load Analysis
-->
[quote="lhelming(at)sigecom.net"]I would put the Avionics cooling fan and
Chelton display 2 on the main bus to reduce e-bus load."
Thanks for the thoughts! I agree with the cooling fan on the main bus, but
I'm not sure about the Chelton display #2, which will be my primary
navigation source. I suppose I could engage the autopilot and then switch
the Chelton #1 display to the navigation page and then switch back. On the
other hand, the display has an off switch, so I could manually turn off
display #2 until it was needed.
Good food for thought,
Dennis Johnson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3126#3126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
Bret Smith wrote:
> I fly/live in the North Georgia mountains and consider the fuel boost pump
> "essential" to safe flight. I have always used the FBP during takeoff/climb
> then switched off. My "Before Landing" Checklist includes "Fuel Boost Pump-
> ON". It may not be essential for others but it reduces the "pucker factor"
> for me knowing it is available.
Hi Bret,
I follow the same procedure for take-off and landing.
However, one thing that I considered is that the boost pump
is really a backup to the main pump (in my case a mechanical
pump), and the "battery" or essential bus is really just a
backup in case the main bus fails. Realistically, what
are the chances that both the main bus AND the main fuel pump
are going to fail at the same time? If you are on the ground, and
one fails, you aren't going to take off (or shouldn't anyway).
If you are flying, and either one fails, you land as soon as
practical, and you should be able to land just fine without
the boost pump since it is just a backup and not really
essential to the plane flying. That's what went through my head
anyways... :-)
The wonderful thing about it is that neither
approach is wrong. :-)
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
Or a kit or plans?
thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
old cessna 170 and found it useful.
Any one know where to get another?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Do not arcive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
>
>
>
>Bret Smith wrote:
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Looks good. I plan to put the Fuel Boost Pump on the Battery Bus
> though. I
> > will be putting the Transponder and Encoder and your Chelton display #2 on
> > the Main bus and free up some amps on the Endurance bus. The E-Bus should
> > only have the basic instruments to help you get safely on the ground.
May I suggest that the e-bus is to get you comfortably to
airport in sight? After your comfortable arrival is assured,
bring the main bus back up. If you have a small aux alternator,
100% of the battery should be available to get you on the ground.
If you don't have a second alternator, even then, the prudent
design and use of the e-bus should leave you enough snort for
the last few minutes of flight with more goodies running . . . but
even if it doesn't, it shouldn't matter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> driver? |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
>
>I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
>sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
>
>Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
>pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
>
>Or a kit or plans?
Is your engine running? You need to know the range of votlages
that appear the sensor terminal with engine stopped and engine
running. A circuit like our LV Monitor can be modified to
watch this voltage and produce the light action you're seeking.
It could probably be done with one of the boards we already
have.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 questions |
>
>Greetings
>
>Im beginning to get up to speed in preparation for installation of my
>RV-7's electrical system, but have some remaining questions. Regarding
>Bob's Z-13 architecture:
>
>(1) I see no protection built in for the wire between the battery contactor
>and the main bus. Why would this be? In my case,, this wire will need to
>run from the front of the firewall to somewhere on my subpanel, so the wire
>length isnt entirely trivial.
The "fat" wires in light aircraft are not generally "protected" by
more that considered installation to prevent hazardous faults both
along the length of the wire and at the load distribution end (bus).
This philosophy has been in place since day one and has and experience
base of over 250,000 aircraft. There's been no incidents that have
prompted a revision to the philosophy.
>(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
>main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a fusible
>link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just have the
>wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other circuits? I
>know Im missing something...
I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
the fusible link.
Bob . . .
>Thanks. How did people wire planes before the list?
See chapter 17 and in particular Figure 17-1 of the 'Connection.
Alternatively, a cursory inspection of the service manual for
any certified light aircraft will show what's been in place
for about the last 90 years. Not a BAD way to do it. 250,000
happy airplane owners can't be wrong. If you wanted to wire
your airplane exactly the same way (recommended by many of the
kit manufacturers) it would perform as advertised.
Options in the 'Connection and discussed here on the list are
offered for consideration of those who would like to have
more control over their project's electrical system. These options
are in no way intended to be recommendations against anyone choosing
to go with the traditional architectures and hardware.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Bob
Engine not running yet.
Anyone out there with a Rotax 914 (or a 912 or 912S) know the voltage at
the pressure sender when motor is off, and when at idle?
Sounds to me that this is a desirable product.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
A circuit like our LV Monitor can be modified to
> watch this voltage and produce the light action you're seeking.
> It could probably be done with one of the boards we already
> have.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
Hi Dj,
It might seem overly cautious but since I will be running a fuel-injected
engine, my thought was that the fuel boost pump would be more critical than
for a carbureted engine... Even with a mechanical fuel pump.
Bret
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej(at)deej.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Load Analysis
.
>
> Hi Bret,
> I follow the same procedure for take-off and landing.
> However, one thing that I considered is that the boost pump
> is really a backup to the main pump (in my case a mechanical
> pump), and the "battery" or essential bus is really just a
> backup in case the main bus fails. Realistically, what
> are the chances that both the main bus AND the main fuel pump
> are going to fail at the same time? If you are on the ground, and
> one fails, you aren't going to take off (or shouldn't anyway).
> If you are flying, and either one fails, you land as soon as
> practical, and you should be able to land just fine without
> the boost pump since it is just a backup and not really
> essential to the plane flying. That's what went through my head
> anyways... :-)
>
> The wonderful thing about it is that neither
> approach is wrong. :-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: common grounding |
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: common grounding
hi all,
did i miss the answer to the original question because i am also interested...''will
a 300 mm run of #10 wire to the forest of tabs from the grounded firewall
create a groundloop? thanks all,
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: common grounding |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
It is important to keep high loads, especially noisy loads, like motors,
away from the forest of tabs. The #10 wire has some small resistance;
when you put a noisy high current through it, it will spill over to the
other equipment. (the high current would cause the tabs to momentarily
rise above ground)
I would be comfortable with a 1 foot run of #10 to forest of tabs which
were used to ground avionics and instruments.
Most noisy loads like motors should ground back at the engine mount.
Alternatively, you could use a separate remote ground point for all the
noisy returns in the cockpit, and ground them back through an
appropriately sized wire to the main ground point.
Hope this helps.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob
noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: common grounding
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: common grounding
hi all,
did i miss the answer to the original question because i am also
interested...''will a 300 mm run of #10 wire to the forest of tabs from
the grounded firewall create a groundloop? thanks all,
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
| From: | "RussHolland" <russholland(at)ADKAccess.org> |
With the recent discussion here on antenna location and effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am building. Mounting plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav. I have looked at the wing tip antennas but there is metal tubing inside the fiberglass trip on the S-7, so I'm not sure they'd work. The Advanced Aircraft Electronics internal antennas such as shown at Aircraft Spruce at www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php state useability for tube and fabric planes but I haven't found any mounting information. Any experience, thoughts or recommendations would be welcome.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3294#3294
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
*Sorta/kinda the same thing here, Ron:
http://tinyurl.com/arxqk
I bet you could make one on your computer for less than the $12 price tag,
though.
D
*------------
On 1/12/06, rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
>
>
> A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
> pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
> 3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
> old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>
> Any one know where to get another?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Do not arcive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
RussHolland wrote:
> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am building.
Mounting
plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
counterpoise for the other.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 questions |
A followup of question (2) from the peanut gallery, Bob...
Could you oversize the fuse in the fuseblock that feeds the 5A OVP CB to
"guarantee" the breaker pops before the fuse blows? Is there a fuse rating
that'll provide the same level of hard fault protection as the 22 AWG
fuselink while still allowing the 5A OVP CB to pop first?
D
----------
On 1/12/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >Greetings
> >
> >Im beginning to get up to speed in preparation for installation of my
> >RV-7's electrical system, but have some remaining questions. Regarding
> >Bob's Z-13 architecture:
> >
> >(1) I see no protection built in for the wire between the battery
> contactor
> >and the main bus. Why would this be? In my case,, this wire will need
> to
> >run from the front of the firewall to somewhere on my subpanel, so the
> wire
> >length isnt entirely trivial.
>
> The "fat" wires in light aircraft are not generally "protected" by
> more that considered installation to prevent hazardous faults both
> along the length of the wire and at the load distribution end (bus).
> This philosophy has been in place since day one and has and experience
> base of over 250,000 aircraft. There's been no incidents that have
> prompted a revision to the philosophy.
>
>
> >(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
> >main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a fusible
> >link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just have the
> >wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other
> circuits? I
> >know Im missing something...
>
> I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
> control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
> breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
> block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
> run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
> the fusible link.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >Thanks. How did people wire planes before the list?
>
> See chapter 17 and in particular Figure 17-1 of the 'Connection.
> Alternatively, a cursory inspection of the service manual for
> any certified light aircraft will show what's been in place
> for about the last 90 years. Not a BAD way to do it. 250,000
> happy airplane owners can't be wrong. If you wanted to wire
> your airplane exactly the same way (recommended by many of the
> kit manufacturers) it would perform as advertised.
>
> Options in the 'Connection and discussed here on the list are
> offered for consideration of those who would like to have
> more control over their project's electrical system. These options
> are in no way intended to be recommendations against anyone choosing
> to go with the traditional architectures and hardware.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
> On 1/12/06, rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
>
>>
>>A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
>>pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
>>3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
>>old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>>
>>Any one know where to get another?
No, but I have found that one finger held against the face of the DG
(HI) along the runway heading lets me quickly figure out the headings I
need for the various pattern entries. I teach that one to my students.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
Brian,
I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical stab.
mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this mounting
practice.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
> RussHolland wrote:
>
>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>> building. Mounting
> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>
> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
> counterpoise for the other.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Runway / pattern pilot aid? |
I have an item called the "PDQ Runway Calculator" that is helpful.
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=1196&CATID=171
Check it out...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Runway / pattern pilot aid?
> On 1/12/06, rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
>
>>
>>A bit off topic, I have been searching for a simple device that has 4
>>pointers and a compass face. You put 1 leg on runway heading and the other
>>3 pointers give you crosswind, downwind and base headings. I had one in my
>>old cessna 170 and found it useful.
>>
>>Any one know where to get another?
No, but I have found that one finger held against the face of the DG
(HI) along the runway heading lets me quickly figure out the headings I
need for the various pattern entries. I teach that one to my students.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
Lazy, because I suppose I could weasel out the answer after a
lengthy search but:
Does anyone know where I can obtain an idustry standard colour scheme for
electrical systems? I believe I can save time and frustration by sleeving
each end of the wire system with a colour and a number which would permit
quicker trouble-shooting in the long run.
Also, one for other systems as well :
Hydraulics, pneumatics, air, coolant, oil etc.
Thanks for any clue and Happy Landings
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
Brian,
I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical stab.
mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this mounting
practice.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
> RussHolland wrote:
>
>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>> building. Mounting
> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>
> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
> counterpoise for the other.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
Thanks Bill,
I have also heard that many times. I was hoping one of the antenna gurus on
the List might have real data.
For example... it your bird came with the "V" in the streamlined mode, would
it be worth the trouble to get into the vertical stab. and change the mount
for the cat whiskers so that they face forward.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
> forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> Lloyd
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>
>
> Brian,
> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
> stab.
> mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real difference
> between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V". Most certified
> aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline view.
> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
> mounting
> practice.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>>
>>
>> RussHolland wrote:
>>
>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>> building. Mounting
>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>
>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>> counterpoise for the other.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Cc:
Seems like it might depend on whether you wanted better reception inbound
to the station, or outbound from it.. Or maybe it's related to RF
interaction with the rest of the airframe.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should
> face forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> Lloyd
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>
>
> Brian,
> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
> stab. mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real
> difference between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V".
> Most certified aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline
> view.
> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
> mounting practice.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
>>
>>
>> RussHolland wrote:
>>
>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>> building. Mounting
>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>
>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>> counterpoise for the other.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>> . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
In a message dated 1/12/2006 1:38:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
bdenton(at)bdenton.com writes:
There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
Better yet, use a set of blades. Less problems with ice and a more even
signal pattern.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands, models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lazy question |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Fergus -
Red is power & Black is ground. Number each connector and each pin (P20/1,
P20/2 ... P30/10, P/11)
Use shrink tubing and make labels. The first number (P20/1) is the
connector originating the wire and the second (P30/10) is the destination
connector. Keep a spreadsheet with all of the connectors and their pinouts
and the wire's destination. Worked very well for us. You also have to
number the connectors on all of your avionics and other electrical items.
I have an Excel spreadsheet with our data on it if you are interested.
Cheers,
John
>
> Cheers,
> Lazy, because I suppose I could weasel out the answer after a
> lengthy search but:
> Does anyone know where I can obtain an idustry standard colour scheme for
> electrical systems? I believe I can save time and frustration by sleeving
> each end of the wire system with a colour and a number which would permit
> quicker trouble-shooting in the long run.
> Also, one for other systems as well :
> Hydraulics, pneumatics, air, coolant, oil etc.
> Thanks for any clue and Happy Landings
> Ferg
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
Most solder stations are designed for small wire - #22 and smaller, but
you can make-do for larger wires. Weller is the oldest, probably best.
For heavy wire you probably want a higher wattage, with more thermal
mass. These are usually un-regulated. These are usually under $50.
Try www.digikey.com and search for solder. Good solder station is $250
or so.
Radio Shack has a pretty good one for $79 - pre-set temps, etc. But I
have had two of them fail on me.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands,
models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
If ya want the best, and the fastest, use a Metcal... They use RF to heat
the tip, they are instant on, and are my favorite to use. They are a little
pricy, but watch ebay for deals :)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
-->
Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they exist
but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands, models
or sizes to choose from out there?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I like to have access to at least 2 ways to melt solder. The first is
with a fine, high quality pencil iron which will be used on small wire
being attached to small pins which may reside in close quarters. Fine
point, adjustable temperature are the key features. And then a big gun
for use on heavy wire. It may raise the hackles of the purests, but I'd
consider not having the heavy gun in lew of a butane/propane torch which
would handle the heaviest of wires.
In soldering (at least), sophistication of technique can often make up for
lack of sophistication of equipment.
Matt-
>
>
> Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
> exist but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair
> hangar. It will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any
> name brands, models or sizes to choose from out there?
> Thanks ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
see below....
Dan Beadle wrote:
>
>Most solder stations are designed for small wire - #22 and smaller, but
>you can make-do for larger wires. Weller is the oldest, probably best.
>
>
>For heavy wire you probably want a higher wattage, with more thermal
>mass. These are usually un-regulated. These are usually under $50.
>
>Try www.digikey.com and search for solder. Good solder station is $250
>or so.
>
>Radio Shack has a pretty good one for $79 - pre-set temps, etc. But I
>have had two of them fail on me.
>
>Dan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
>Grimmonpre
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:25 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
>
>
>
>Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS? I only know they
>exist
>but need to decide what to buy for medium use in a GA repair hangar. It
>
>will be used for very light to heavy AWG wire size. Any name brands,
>models
>or sizes to choose from out there?
>Thanks ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
There's no need to spend $250 for a soldering station unless you're the
kind of guy who buys Snapon instead of Craftsman because the finish is
prettier. Here's a link to comments about the Weller WTCPT that's been
around in various incarnations for decades, usually priced around $100.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4478
Be aware that no iron is going to be truly useful for the extreme range
of very light to heavy AWG, any more than you would expect to use only
one drive size for all your socket wrenches. The Weller is fine for the
lightest you are likely to encounter in a/c use up to maybe #12, IF your
technique is perfect. Realistically, for wire that big you'd be better
off with a gun type iron or one of the small butane torches.
I'm still using the Weller station I bought in the mid '70s & saw heavy
use in my repair business for almost 20 years before being moved to
'hobby' status when I closed the business in '94. Tips are available in
various tip sizes & shapes and heaters are replaceable. My old iron is
fixed temperature but there are models with temperature adjustments on
the base. I never had a need for adjustable temperature in all the time
I soldered for a living, doing component level repairs to consumer
electronics. A 700 degree heater on an iron with enough power to keep
the tip hot (like the Weller) will handle at least 98% of the tasks you
are likely to encounter while working on a homebuilt, including building
kits like the RST stuff, etc.
The Weller or something similar will help move you from total novice to
reasonable amateur fairly quickly. If you already had experience with
soldering, you could get by with a $10 pencil iron for about 90% of
required tasks. It just wouldn't have the cooltool factor of a station.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lazy question |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Ferg,
You probably want more info on this. Check:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-09-18.html
The long and short is that there is really no one system, but there are many in
use. Read the archive above. I'd just copy it but there were several good posts
on this.
Eric
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3453#3453
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
At 02:24 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>Does anyone on the list know about SOLDER STATIONS?
...
>Any name brands, models
>or sizes to choose from out there?
The Metcal SP200 is a wonderful unit. It has replaceable tips so you can
solder small and large, though I don't know how large. It heats fast and
has a steady tip temp. See there web site for specifics. Best of all these
appear quite regularly on Ebay. Not sure why. Be patient and you can pick
them up at a serious discount.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Try eBay "solder station". Weller is good but there are other name brands, "American
Beauty", and others. When you buy offbrand you run the risk of not being
able to get tips and parts easily. I have an ER-brand SD203 which is going to
succumb to that fate soon.
For the big wattage requirements, either a gun type available anywhere or for production
work, the baton-type "Big-Old-Iron" available at any flea market, or
in the bottom of your oldest tool box.
My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge mess and use a stainless
steel chore-boy stuffed into a heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd know
about this years earlier.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3456#3456
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Check: http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
This is Copper Clad Aluminum Fatwire and it may solve your problem.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3458#3458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "richard titsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
Eric,
Thanks. I am familiar with the product referenced.
However, assuming I don't need flexibility/formability, does this offer any
advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems aluminum would be slightly
lighter, cheaper, dissipate heat better, easier to secure (bonded in),
easier to terminate (aka a hole), and isn't toxic if it ever burns. Better
in most/all aspects?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Common Grounding
Check: http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
This is Copper Clad Aluminum Fatwire and it may solve your problem.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3458#3458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
Good points Matt....
I would still like to see some real test data on the subject.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>
>
> Seems like it might depend on whether you wanted better reception inbound
> to the station, or outbound from it.. Or maybe it's related to RF
> interaction with the rest of the airframe.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>>
>>
>> There's something about this on either the Comant or RAMI web site.
>>
>> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should
>> face forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
>> Lloyd
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:04 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian,
>> I have often wondered if tests have been done for the typical vertical
>> stab. mounted, V-type VOR antenna to determine if there is any real
>> difference between a forward facing "V" vs. a rearward facing "V".
>> Most certified aircraft seem to face them rearward in the streamline
>> view.
>> Have you or any of the group seen application data concerning this
>> mounting practice.
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RussHolland wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the recent discussion here on antenna location and
>>>> effectiveness, I have a Nav antenna question for the Rans S-7 I am
>>>> building. Mounting
>>> plates are provided for Comm and ELT, but not Nav.
>>>
>>> Most Nav antennas like the V-type "cat whisker" do not need a ground
>>> plane. The are balanced and the two legs provide the effective
>>> counterpoise for the other.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>>> . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuse or Fusible Link Question - Was Z-13 Questions |
Bob you replied earlier:
>(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
>main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a
>fusible link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just
>have the wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other
>circuits? I know Im missing something...
I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
the fusible link.
Bob . . .
In a previous post, I understood you to say that you could normally
substitute an appropriate fuse, 7a in this case for a 22g fusible link. I
take it from the above that there are instances where you want something
slower than a fuse which is the purpose here for the fusible link and you
would not want to run from the CB directly to a 7a fused slot. True? If so,
are there other instances to be aware of?
You also make the comment specifically as it applies to crowbar OV
protection systems and I see it with the crowbar on the 6/1/05 version of
Z13 using a ford regulator. I assume but am not sure if this also applies
as well if using the B&C LR3 regulator with internal OV protection shown on
earlier versions? ?? (I "was" fusing this one also)
Thanks for your patience!
Bill S
7a Ark
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna on tube and fabric plane |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> They state that, for best performance, the open end of the "V" should face
> forward, i.e. with the tips of the elements facing forward.
>
>
> Better yet, use a set of blades. Less problems with ice and a more even
> signal pattern.
>
Blade and towel-bar type nav antennas expect to work against a good
ground plane. "Cat-whisker" nav antennas are independent of a ground
plane except where the metal mass blanks part of the antenna and
distorts the radiation pattern.
Use a "cat-whisker" antenna for a rag-and-tube or plastic airplane.
Carbon fiber is more like metal but I am not sure how you get a good bond.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mthomson(at)showmeproductions.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
What is it that "scares the hell out of you" about Blue Mountain. Perhaps
you need a company comparison and not so much a product feature comparison?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
One that usually gets missed is MGL Avionics. Low end I guess but I like
(and own) one of their Stratomaster line. And the owner of the company
answers their e-mails. Sonex recommends them for their planes.
www.mglavionics.co.za ("za" is South Africa)
www.sportflyingshop.com/ is the US distributor I bought mine through.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue Mountain
Avionics:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm
Thomson
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
What is it that "scares the hell out of you" about Blue Mountain. Perhaps
you need a company comparison and not so much a product feature comparison?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse or Fusible Link Question |
>
>
>
>Bob you replied earlier:
>
> >(2) Im confused about the wire between the connection terminal for the
> >main bus and the DC power master switch. Why have a wire with a
> >fusible link coming off the bus connection terminal when you could just
> >have the wire hooked up to the bus with a standard fuse like the other
> >circuits? I know Im missing something...
>
> I you choose to use a fuse block in conjunction with an alternator
> control having a crowbar ov protection system, you'll want a circuit
> breaker on the panel which is an EXTENSION of the bus from the fuse
> block to the breaker. The time constant of fuses is MUCH too fast to
> run upstream of a breaker during the crowbar event . . . hence
> the fusible link.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>In a previous post, I understood you to say that you could normally
>substitute an appropriate fuse, 7a in this case for a 22g fusible link. I
>take it from the above that there are instances where you want something
>slower than a fuse which is the purpose here for the fusible link and you
>would not want to run from the CB directly to a 7a fused slot. True? If so,
>are there other instances to be aware of?
>
>You also make the comment specifically as it applies to crowbar OV
>protection systems and I see it with the crowbar on the 6/1/05 version of
>Z13 using a ford regulator. I assume but am not sure if this also applies
>as well if using the B&C LR3 regulator with internal OV protection shown on
>earlier versions? ?? (I "was" fusing this one also)
Yes, the LR-series regulators INTEND to open a 5A breaker
during an OV event. A 5A breaker is slower than a 20A fuse
in a fault clearing event, hence the attractiveness of
the fusible link
-------------------------------
Here's the post you're referring to:
>
>
>Bob, I understand that we size the fuse to the wire but I am a little
>confused about when and where one would use a fusible link. In the Z11
>figure, you show the E-Bus Alt Feed with a 7a fuse off the main battery bus
>using 16g wire through a 1-3 switch and 16g unprotected wire to the E-Bus.
>Now, in Z13, you show the same thing with a fusible link between the E-bus
>Alt Feed switch and E-Bus.
>
>Questions:
>
>In Z11, are we using the 7a fuse to protect the switch since 16g wire could
>take a 12.5 amp fuse or is it size related to the design load on the E-bus?
Keep in mind that the Z-drawings are illustrations of architecture
and minute details such as wire and fuse sizing may (probably will)
take some consideration and adjustment to meed your design goals.
In the case you cite above I have no way to predict the distance (i.e.
length of wire) between battery bus and the e-bus. While limited in
total performance by the 7A fuse (my personal upper limit for always
hot wire feeders), voltage drop and source-impedance looking back at
the battery can be reduced by making the feeder something larger than
the 7A fuse would have suggested.
>In Z11, why aren't we protecting the wire after the switch since it is hot
>when the master is on and it's a pretty long wire?
Longer than 6" (or some other extraordinarily protected length
of your choice)? Then protect it too. Perhaps a fuse slot on the
e-bus would be appropriate for protection of a long feeder between
e-bus switch and the e-bus. Alternatively, you could deduce that
this wire is all inside the cockpit, well routed, well protected from
mechanical faults to ground and decide it's okay as-shown.
>In Z13, why are we using a 20g fusible link (protects at 7 amps?) on the
>wire after the E-Bus Alt Feed switch but not in the Z11 figure?
(I see that I didn't answer this adequately - the EXTRA
protection in the e-bus alternate feed path is for the
case where the e-bus is the SOURCE. Faults on the e-bus
alternate feed wire can be sourced from either end. One
could use one of the e-bus fuses [7A] to compliment the
7A fuse at the other end . . . but it uses up a slot on the
bus. The fusible link seemed like a good player in this
slot)
This is an example of a design goal decision based on the
considerations above. Given the very protected environment
this wire traverses, perhaps the fusible link is satisfactory.
In fact, it probably is . . . the fusible link offers adequate
protection for the rest of the wires in a bundle if the link is
forced open . . . but it's going to be smoky in the cockpit.
Probability is very low so the fusible link saves a fuse slot
for more useful things, offers real (if not exciting) protection
from a fault that is a very low risk event.
>In the Z13 case, would it be acceptable to run the alt e-bus feed to a tab
>on the e-bus with a 7a fuse instead of using a fusible link to the bus stud?
>Assumes available tab positions.
---------------------------------------------
You'll note that in this thread we were discussing
the feeder from battery bus to e-bus through the alternate
feed switch. Further, a fusible link is suggested ONLY
at the e-bus end of the alternate feed path (as shown in
Figure Z-13/8) where the SOURCE that opens this protection
is a powered-up main bus. Note that feeds from the battery
bus are always FAST protection like CB (okay) or fuse (really
fast and my personal preference).
When I started discussions on fusible links several years
ago, I had but two applications in mind. Protection of ammeter
feeders from a shunt and protection of a BUS EXTENSION of
a fuseblock to a 5A breaker in a crowbar ov protection system.
The attractiveness and general substitutability of the fusible
link has morphed into new areas which are much better served
by fuses. In view of the I(squared)*T characteristics of
the ANL current limiters, fusible links seemed practical for
b-lead feeders in small alternators like the Rotax (Figure
Z-16).
The practical use of these devices is rare and limited to
specific locations cited in the Z-figures. The only really
attractive application is bus extension from a fuseblock
to a 5A crowbar breaker. If you have a breaker panel in
lieu of fuseblocks, then the fusible link is obviously not
needed. Virtually ALL other potential applications for
fusible links are well served with fast fuses.
Please don't treat fusible links as plug-n-play substitutes
for any other kind of circuit protection. Using a 7A fuse
on both ends of the alternate feed path is very attractive
from a speed-of-operation in process of protecting the path
from ground faults.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
>
>
>Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue Mountain
>Avionics:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
>
>-- Craig
Keep in mind folks that the "tiff" had nothing to do with Blue Mountain
EFIS systems. Greg chose to offer advice to builders concerning techniques
and materials selections for assembling an electrical system that he
could not support with an explanation of simple-ideas. He also chose
to take a whack at the 'Connection. However, in spite of an overt offer
to "talk shop" was ultimately unable or unwilling to discuss specifics
as to where the 'Connection fell short. He never answered a single question.
One might infer things about Greg's business model and/or manufacturing
techniques based on our short exchange but doing so is certain to
be incomplete and have some errors of perception. Blue Mountain has
been around for some years. Your very best information on their
hardware and business performance is from customers who are installing
and/or flying their products - not from third-party discussions here
on the List or anywhere else (except where they cite first-hand knowledge
of fact).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Maxwell <kevmaxwell(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
On Jan 12, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Greg Vouga wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to
> decide which
> one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
> frankly, the company scares the hell out of me.
Never had anything but positive experiences. They've bent over
backwards when necessary, which has been rare. They maintain an
unmoderated forum, which is a valuable resource, but does tend to
lend a sense of exaggeration to the inevitable rare problems.
Kevin #83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
The part that scares me is the company. I've heard too many rumors about
bad service, slow (or no) delivery, and even a few system malfunctions.
While I've not verified all of this info, there's enough negative stuff out
there to at least make me nervous. So much so, that I've started looking
into other systems more closesly.
I've been a fan of BMA for about 2 years. I'm very impressed with their
features and the overall appearance of their system. However, I've almost
had tunnel vision when it comes to other systems. Which is what is
prompting me to put together a comparison of all systems. I would like to
start out with features alone. Of course this will only be one piece of the
decision puzzle. I think it will be helpfull for me to go back to basics
and start there.
>From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mthomson(at)showmeproductions.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:55:18 -0700
>
>
>
>What is it that "scares the hell out of you" about Blue Mountain. Perhaps
>you need a company comparison and not so much a product feature comparison?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
>Vouga
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
>To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>
>
>-->
>
>Hi all,
>
>I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
>one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
>frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
>new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
>I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
>decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
>that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
I've never heard of these guys. I'll take a look.
Thanks
>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:06:55 -0700
>
>
>
>One that usually gets missed is MGL Avionics. Low end I guess but I like
>(and own) one of their Stratomaster line. And the owner of the company
>answers their e-mails. Sonex recommends them for their planes.
>
>www.mglavionics.co.za ("za" is South Africa)
>
>www.sportflyingshop.com/ is the US distributor I bought mine through.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
>Vouga
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
>To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>
>-->
>
>Hi all,
>
>I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
>one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
>frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
>new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
>I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
>decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
>that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Guys,
Anyone who has ever scrubbed a pot in the kitchen or made a crack pipe out of a
glass tube knows what a Chore Boy is. Grocery stores now have to keep them under
the counter because of use #2....
These are a universally-popular brand of knitted stainless or brass metal pot scrubbers.
Google "Chore Boy" = 800,000 pages. Cheeeeze...
In technical circles thay are useful in the lab as prefilters and mufflers and
a zillion other uses. Oh yes...and they make great soldering-tip cleaners, too.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3617#3617
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
You might also keep an eye on: http://www.aveousa.com/
They are technology partners with MGL Avionics, and while some of their
products are duplicates of the MGL units, Aveo also offers some products
that are exclusive to their line.
They will be introducing several new, and what they promise will be
exciting, products some time in January, so you might check their site
periodically...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
I've never heard of these guys. I'll take a look.
Thanks
>From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:06:55 -0700
>
>
>
>One that usually gets missed is MGL Avionics. Low end I guess but I like
>(and own) one of their Stratomaster line. And the owner of the company
>answers their e-mails. Sonex recommends them for their planes.
>
>www.mglavionics.co.za ("za" is South Africa)
>
>www.sportflyingshop.com/ is the US distributor I bought mine through.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
>Vouga
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
>To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>
>-->
>
>Hi all,
>
>I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
>one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
>frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
>new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
>I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
>decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
>that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Rick
Snip...>does this offer any advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems aluminum
would be slightly lighter, cheaper....
The electric power company uses aluminum drops to your house, but for the grounding
they use copper/zinc/etc. This is because aluminum is fine for higher voltages
with the proper joints and anti-oxide goops, but to guarantee the ground
won't float a couple volts is impossible with aluminum connections, and a real
mess with low voltage, high current connections. The right way to do it would
be to use aluminum bar/strap/whatever and a welded on aluminum-copper transition
endpiece. (Google "aluminum copper transition"). Alternatively, copper or
copper-clad-aluminum is your best bet.
If you use Perihelion Design's Super-CCA for ground, you can strip off the insulation
to save a bit more.
If you choose to use plain aluminum...expect mysterious ground problems and the
retrofit of a real ground at your first annual....
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3637#3637
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to
get the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my
CJ6A project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical
system, glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by
installation and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to
do something about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1
doesn't work for whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the
less can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS
principle is generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of
drain from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft
with a 14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg
and Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using
the proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and
electrically sound with no single point of failure. If builders really
do what Bob suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly
reliable and eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been
experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That
doesn't make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't
think it is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7
so I probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires
one to become conversant with any number of technologies upon which
one's life will depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The
electrical system is just one such. I have always applauded the
AeroElectric Connection because it is so thorough in presenting the
basics. (Even if
Bob still prefers silicon to Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.)
Learning electricity to the point where you can understand your
electrical system is no harder than having to learn the FARs (easier in
fact because electricity makes sense under all conditions) or learn to
fly on instruments and certainly no worse that understanding your fuel
system, hydraulic system, control surface balance and rigging, fabric
application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the
Blue Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to
provide instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1
just by adding a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an
ILS. (I consider basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it
enhances my ability to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full
engine monitoring. My backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges,
i.e. altimeter, AI, and airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course
there will be a whiskey compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will
reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly
inexpensive for what you get and is probably how I would go when
equipping an aircraft where cost is the real object and there are real
estate issues. (I wish the Dynon had been around when I was doing the
panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>Rick
>
>Snip...>does this offer any advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems aluminum
would be slightly lighter, cheaper....
>
>The electric power company uses aluminum drops to your house, but for the grounding
they use copper/zinc/etc. This is because aluminum is fine for higher voltages
with the proper joints and anti-oxide goops, but to guarantee the ground
won't float a couple volts is impossible with aluminum connections, and a real
mess with low voltage, high current connections. The right way to do it would
be to use aluminum bar/strap/whatever and a welded on aluminum-copper transition
endpiece. (Google "aluminum copper transition"). Alternatively, copper
or copper-clad-aluminum is your best bet.
>
>If you use Perihelion Design's Super-CCA for ground, you can strip off the insulation
to save a bit more.
>
>If you choose to use plain aluminum...expect mysterious ground problems and the
retrofit of a real ground at your first annual....
>
>
>Eric M. Jones
>
I've often wondered if the 'aluminum brazing' products hyped at flyins &
available at welding shops could be used to transition from AL bar stock
to a copper tab for mechanical connections. They are supposed to work on
'most non-ferrous metals'. This might accomplish Rick's goal of light,
cheap, simple, safe. Is that worth exploring?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sectionals On-Line |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Check out Sectionals On-Line.
Onhttp://skyvector.com/
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | alternator b-lead bundled with engine computer wiring |
Hi Listers,
I'm trying to finalize my firewall penetrations,
and one convenient way would be to have one
"towel bar" type hole in the firewall with all
my wires. This would include the fat wire from
the alternator B-lead going back to the batteries
in the rear baggage area.
Do you expect any problems if I have all these
wires, including the wires from my engine computer
to my spark plug coils, fuel injector solenoids,
various crank position sensors, electric prop
controller, and various pressure transducers?
Many thanks for your advice!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Brian-
with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the back seat?
I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work. At about $9k,
there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new panel blank
for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking something...
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to
get the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my
CJ6A project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical
system, glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by
installation and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to
do something about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1
doesn't work for whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the
less can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS
principle is generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of
drain from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft
with a 14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg
and Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using
the proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and
electrically sound with no single point of failure. If builders really
do what Bob suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly
reliable and eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been
experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That
doesn't make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't
think it is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7
so I probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires
one to become conversant with any number of technologies upon which
one's life will depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The
electrical system is just one such. I have always applauded the
AeroElectric Connection because it is so thorough in presenting the
basics. (Even if
Bob still prefers silicon to Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.)
Learning electricity to the point where you can understand your
electrical system is no harder than having to learn the FARs (easier in
fact because electricity makes sense under all conditions) or learn to
fly on instruments and certainly no worse that understanding your fuel
system, hydraulic system, control surface balance and rigging, fabric
application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the
Blue Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to
provide instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1
just by adding a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an
ILS. (I consider basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it
enhances my ability to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full
engine monitoring. My backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges,
i.e. altimeter, AI, and airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course
there will be a whiskey compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will
reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly
inexpensive for what you get and is probably how I would go when
equipping an aircraft where cost is the real object and there are real
estate issues. (I wish the Dynon had been around when I was doing the
panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
I may be wrong, but I believe the Rotac has a VDO Oil Pressure sender
whcih can be bought with two sender terminals - one terminal has an off/on
switch and the other has a variable resistor.
This is how I did it on the Jab 3000A, which came with two pick-ups on its
VDO sender.
The pickup labled WK on the VDO sender stands for warning contact, aka
"idiot light" pickup. This contact is normally closed with no oil pressure
and opens at about 8 psi. (The other pick up "feeds" the oil pressure
guage)
I installed a Radio Shcck PN 275-248 relay "velcroed" on the top of the
Hobbs (the relay is very small and rated for 10A at 24V). I wired the VDO
WK terminal to the NO coil pick up of the relay and the other relay coil
pickup wired to the master bus for its 12V pickup when the master is turned
on. This 12V wire is also spliced to feed into the COM of the relay. I then
wired the relay such that a wire from the NO on the relay fed to the + lead
of a red 12 V 1/4 in dia Radio Shack LED installed on the panel (the - lead
of the LED goes to ground). This LED lights up with the master switch ON
when there is zero or less than about 8 psi pressure. Another wire feeds
into the + of the Hobbs from the NC pickup of the relay. Another wire goes
from the - of the Hobbs to ground.
When there is Oil Press, the WK contact of the VDO opens and then the relay
switches the voltage/current to the Hobbs.
In summary. Zero or less than about 8 psi gives "idiot light" on panel.
On engine start, "idiot light" goes out (unless you have a problem) and
Hobbs starts running.
The relay and LED are very inexpensive. If you are unsure how to wire
them, study the diagram on the relay package, wire everything up on the
bench, and play with the combination.
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
Zodiac 601XL N493TG
-------------------
AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
>I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
>sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
>
>Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
>pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
>
>Or a kit or plans?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
No, No, No. You want dual AHRS, with an electronic comparator hopefully. No
if it's a VFR ONLY airplane, anything goes.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sportav8r(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Brian-
with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the back
seat? I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work. At about
$9k, there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new panel
blank for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking
something...
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to
get the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my
CJ6A project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical
system, glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by
installation and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to
do something about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1
doesn't work for whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the
less can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS
principle is generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of
drain from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft
with a 14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg
and Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using
the proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and
electrically sound with no single point of failure. If builders really
do what Bob suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly
reliable and eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been
experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That
doesn't make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't
think it is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7
so I probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires
one to become conversant with any number of technologies upon which
one's life will depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The
electrical system is just one such. I have always applauded the
AeroElectric Connection because it is so thorough in presenting the
basics. (Even if
Bob still prefers silicon to Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.)
Learning electricity to the point where you can understand your
electrical system is no harder than having to learn the FARs (easier in
fact because electricity makes sense under all conditions) or learn to
fly on instruments and certainly no worse that understanding your fuel
system, hydraulic system, control surface balance and rigging, fabric
application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the
Blue Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to
provide instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1
just by adding a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an
ILS. (I consider basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it
enhances my ability to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full
engine monitoring. My backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges,
i.e. altimeter, AI, and airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course
there will be a whiskey compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will
reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly
inexpensive for what you get and is probably how I would go when
equipping an aircraft where cost is the real object and there are real
estate issues. (I wish the Dynon had been around when I was doing the
panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Cc:
Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Eric M.
Jones"
<<......skip......My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge
mess and use a stainless
steel chore-boy stuffed into a heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd know
about this years earlier. Eric M. Jones>>
1/13/2006
Hello Eric, A couple of centuries ago as a young lad on the farm I had to
solder leaks in the milk pails. The preferred method of cleaning the
soldering iron tip back then was to rub the heated tip on a small block of
sal ammoniac.
Has that method fallen by the wayside? Thanks.
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator b-lead bundled with engine computer |
wiring
That is how I did mine. Everything goes through one hole along with some
push pull cables. Just like Bob suggests. Minimize the number of FW
penetrations. I have the ACS2002 engine monitor with lots of wires. No
problems.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 78 hours
----- Original Message -----
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I'm trying to finalize my firewall penetrations,
> and one convenient way would be to have one
> "towel bar" type hole in the firewall with all
> my wires. This would include the fat wire from
> the alternator B-lead going back to the batteries
> in the rear baggage area.
>
> Do you expect any problems if I have all these
> wires, including the wires from my engine computer
> to my spark plug coils, fuel injector solenoids,
> various crank position sensors, electric prop
> controller, and various pressure transducers?
>
> Many thanks for your advice!
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
That is how I did mine. Everything goes through one hole. Just like Bob
suggests. No problems.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 78 hours
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Windhorn" <N1deltawhiskey(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
OC,
Never heard of sal ammoniac! Googled it and came up with some interesting
information, including a site that recommends it for cleanding soldering
tips: www.glassmart.com. Click on soldering Irons, block is at the bottom.
Doug Windhorn
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Cc:
Sent: Friday, 13 January, 2006 9:35
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder Station
>
> Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Eric M.
> Jones"
>
> <<......skip......My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge
> mess and use a stainless
> steel chore-boy stuffed into a heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd
> know
> about this years earlier. Eric M. Jones>>
>
> 1/13/2006
>
> Hello Eric, A couple of centuries ago as a young lad on the farm I had to
> solder leaks in the milk pails. The preferred method of cleaning the
> soldering iron tip back then was to rub the heated tip on a small block of
> sal ammoniac.
>
> Has that method fallen by the wayside? Thanks.
>
> OC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Windhorn" <N1deltawhiskey(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator b-lead bundled with engine computer |
wiring
Mickey,
Don't understand why you are running the B-lead to the baggage area
batteries. How do you get power to the panel by running a lead from the
batteries to the panel/firewall area? If so, why not connect the B-lead to
that end of the buss?
Doug Windhorn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Sent: Friday, 13 January, 2006 8:26
Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternator b-lead bundled with engine computer
wiring
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I'm trying to finalize my firewall penetrations,
> and one convenient way would be to have one
> "towel bar" type hole in the firewall with all
> my wires. This would include the fat wire from
> the alternator B-lead going back to the batteries
> in the rear baggage area.
>
> Do you expect any problems if I have all these
> wires, including the wires from my engine computer
> to my spark plug coils, fuel injector solenoids,
> various crank position sensors, electric prop
> controller, and various pressure transducers?
>
> Many thanks for your advice!
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
No, No, No. You want need a single AHRS to drive the dual EFIS
display. Then you want an independent, unrelated 'save your undies'
system as a backup.
As an example....if you have two Crossbow AHRS, what do you have?
For Brian's benefit, I can report a single AHRS drives both GRT EFIS
units with 100% live-time for 300 hours.
Chuck Jensen
No, No, No. You want dual AHRS, with an electronic comparator hopefully.
No
if it's a VFR ONLY airplane, anything goes.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sportav8r(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Brian-
with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the
back
seat? I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work. At
about
$9k, there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new
panel
blank for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking
something...
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue
Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to
get the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my
CJ6A project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical
system, glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by
installation and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to
do something about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1
doesn't work for whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the
less can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS
principle is generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of
drain from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft
with a 14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg
and Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using
the proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and
electrically sound with no single point of failure. If builders really
do what Bob suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly
reliable and eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been
experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That
doesn't make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't
think it is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7
so I probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires
one to become conversant with any number of technologies upon which
one's life will depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The
electrical system is just one such. I have always applauded the
AeroElectric Connection because it is so thorough in presenting the
basics. (Even if
Bob still prefers silicon to Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.)
Learning electricity to the point where you can understand your
electrical system is no harder than having to learn the FARs (easier in
fact because electricity makes sense under all conditions) or learn to
fly on instruments and certainly no worse that understanding your fuel
system, hydraulic system, control surface balance and rigging, fabric
application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the
Blue Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to
provide instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1
just by adding a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an
ILS. (I consider basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it
enhances my ability to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full
engine monitoring. My backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges,
i.e. altimeter, AI, and airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course
there will be a whiskey compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will
reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly
inexpensive for what you get and is probably how I would go when
equipping an aircraft where cost is the real object and there are real
estate issues. (I wish the Dynon had been around when I was doing the
panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
Greg has a tech note on his web site about the battery back-up:
http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/battery_backup.pdf
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
Craig Payne wrote:
> -->
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue
> Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to get
the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my CJ6A
project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical system,
glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by installation
and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to do something
about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1 doesn't work for
whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the less
can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS principle is
generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of drain
from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft with a
14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg and
Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using the
proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and electrically
sound with no single point of failure. If builders really do what Bob
suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly reliable and
eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That doesn't
make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't think it
is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7 so I
probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires one to
become conversant with any number of technologies upon which one's life will
depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The electrical system is just
one such. I have always applauded the AeroElectric Connection because it is
so thorough in presenting the basics. (Even if Bob still prefers silicon to
Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.) Learning electricity to the point
where you can understand your electrical system is no harder than having to
learn the FARs (easier in fact because electricity makes sense under all
conditions) or learn to fly on instruments and certainly no worse that
understanding your fuel system, hydraulic system, control surface balance
and rigging, fabric application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the Blue
Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to provide
instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1 just by adding
a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an ILS. (I consider
basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it enhances my ability
to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full engine monitoring. My
backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges, i.e. altimeter, AI, and
airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course there will be a whiskey
compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly inexpensive
for what you get and is probably how I would go when equipping an aircraft
where cost is the real object and there are real estate issues. (I wish the
Dynon had been around when I was doing the panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
After a little googling I think the part number for the VDO dual sender is
VDO-360006, Here is at least one place to buy it for 30 bucks:
http://www.mooreparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VD
O360006&Category_Code=GGAUGTS
Or as a tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/7jkkh
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of T.
Graziano
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver?
-->
I may be wrong, but I believe the Rotac has a VDO Oil Pressure sender whcih
can be bought with two sender terminals - one terminal has an off/on switch
and the other has a variable resistor.
This is how I did it on the Jab 3000A, which came with two pick-ups on its
VDO sender.
The pickup labled WK on the VDO sender stands for warning contact, aka
"idiot light" pickup. This contact is normally closed with no oil pressure
and opens at about 8 psi. (The other pick up "feeds" the oil pressure
guage)
I installed a Radio Shcck PN 275-248 relay "velcroed" on the top of the
Hobbs (the relay is very small and rated for 10A at 24V). I wired the VDO
WK terminal to the NO coil pick up of the relay and the other relay coil
pickup wired to the master bus for its 12V pickup when the master is turned
on. This 12V wire is also spliced to feed into the COM of the relay. I then
wired the relay such that a wire from the NO on the relay fed to the + lead
of a red 12 V 1/4 in dia Radio Shack LED installed on the panel (the - lead
of the LED goes to ground). This LED lights up with the master switch ON
when there is zero or less than about 8 psi pressure. Another wire feeds
into the + of the Hobbs from the NC pickup of the relay. Another wire goes
from the - of the Hobbs to ground.
When there is Oil Press, the WK contact of the VDO opens and then the relay
switches the voltage/current to the Hobbs.
In summary. Zero or less than about 8 psi gives "idiot light" on panel.
On engine start, "idiot light" goes out (unless you have a problem) and
Hobbs starts running.
The relay and LED are very inexpensive. If you are unsure how to wire
them, study the diagram on the relay package, wire everything up on the
bench, and play with the combination.
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
Zodiac 601XL N493TG
-------------------
AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
>I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
>sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
>
>Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
>pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
>
>Or a kit or plans?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Brian-
>
> with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the back
seat? I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work. At about $9k,
there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
You forgot to add in the engine monitor function. I am not sure they
support two displays for that. If I have to put in two engine monitors I
have to add another $6000 for that. Now I am up to $15,000.
In addition, I have a 9-cyl radial engine. That means 9xCHT and 9xEGT.
The GRT engine monitor does not appear to meet my needs. Greg has
assured me that the BMA EFIS-1 can handle a 9-cyl engine.
Also, the BMA EFIS-1 performs as an HSI to display the nav data from my
NavCom for VOR and ILS navigation thus eliminating the need for a
VOR/ILS head. That is more hardware I don't have to buy and it gets
repeated to the back seat. Useful if the GIB wants to fly the approach
or if I am instructing and want to monitor the VOR/ILS needles.
Basically an EFIS-1 with an Apollo/Garmin SL-30 NavCom and a transponder
is a complete panel for the airplane. All I have to do is add enough to
provide backup to make myself comfortable. If I have a Dynon or a
3-pack, I can use the built-in CDI display on the SL-30 to fly a LOC or
VOR approach even if the EFIS-1 packs it in. I have reduced capability
but should still be safe.
> I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new panel
blank for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking something...
You sound like you are on the right track. I am debating between a Dynon
D-10 and a 3-pack for my backup. Decisions, decisions ...
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
QUOTE: As an example....if you have two Crossbow AHRS, what do you have?
END QUOTE:
Not sure what that is suppose to mean.... It means the same thing whether
you have two Crossbow, or GRT, or BMI, or XYZ company AHRS.
Least this degrade into a who's AHRS is better than who's else's, just
suffice it to say that there are primary instruments and backup or secondary
ones. If you want true redundancy, you need two separate system, on
separate power supplies sharing no components in common.
Alan
Ps. I'm getting a little tired about the competitive finger pointing that
goes on around EFIS systems. They each have their pluses and minuses.
Determine your mission profile and wallet book allowance and buy what you
want. For me that was one that was based upon a certified software suite -
yes, I bought a Chelton for my Lancair Legacy. Yes they found an issue with
the AHRS, but that's no different than any of the other vendors. Course
there is one exception - my G1000 182... It's been a rock for over 170 hours
so far.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
No, No, No. You want need a single AHRS to drive the dual EFIS
display. Then you want an independent, unrelated 'save your undies'
system as a backup.
As an example....if you have two Crossbow AHRS, what do you have?
For Brian's benefit, I can report a single AHRS drives both GRT EFIS units
with 100% live-time for 300 hours.
Chuck Jensen
No, No, No. You want dual AHRS, with an electronic comparator hopefully.
No
if it's a VFR ONLY airplane, anything goes.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sportav8r(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Brian-
with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the back
seat? I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work. At about
$9k, there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new panel
blank for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking
something...
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Well, there was a minor tiff between Bob and Greg Richter of Blue
Mountain
> Avionics:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
It is interesting. I spent the better part of a day with Greg trying to get
the feel for the Blue Mountain EFIS-1 as I am considering it for my CJ6A
project. (Airframe and pneumatics done. Engine, prop, electrical system,
glass, and paint to go.)
Greg's biggest lament is how his tech support gets eaten up by installation
and wiring problems. I can understand why he would want to do something
about that as it costs him money when someone's EFIS-1 doesn't work for
whatever reason.
Greg's approach to the problem is simplicity. The less there is, the less
can go wrong or be made to go wrong. I agree that the KISS principle is
generally a good thing.
One thing I did find interesting is that his box drops off-line at about
9V-10V. It won't ride through cranking the engine on a 14V electrical
system. He was working on a backup battery approach to provide power to
EFIS-1 so it would stay alive while the engine was cranked. He prefers
aircraft have a 28V electrical system as he then has just that much more
margin before hitting that 9v-10v point. This didn't matter to me in the
CJ6A because:
1. it is a 28V system;
2. there is no electrical starter so there will never be that level of drain
from the battery.
I consider this to be non-problem for me and a potential problem for
everyone who is planning to install an EFIS-1 in their OBAM aircraft with a
14V electrical system and an electric starter. Do the other PFD
manufacturers have this problem? I don't know but it is something to
consider in your installation. (And for all I know Greg has solved the
problem but I haven't looked for over a year.)
What I don't get is why there should be any kind of rancor between Greg and
Bob. Bob emphasized wiring aircraft in a workman-like manner using the
proper materials to ensure that the system is mechanically and electrically
sound with no single point of failure. If builders really do what Bob
suggests, their electrical systems should be exceedingly reliable and
eliminate the kinds of problems that Greg has been experiencing.
And Greg can't blame Bob when someone chooses to do a poor job. That doesn't
make Bob's information any less correct.
As for the argument about understanding electrical systems, I don't think it
is all that hard. (But then, I started building radios at age 7 so I
probably don't count.) I do know that building an airplane requires one to
become conversant with any number of technologies upon which one's life will
depend after the wheels have left Terra firma. The electrical system is just
one such. I have always applauded the AeroElectric Connection because it is
so thorough in presenting the basics. (Even if Bob still prefers silicon to
Schottky isolation diodes for the EB.) Learning electricity to the point
where you can understand your electrical system is no harder than having to
learn the FARs (easier in fact because electricity makes sense under all
conditions) or learn to fly on instruments and certainly no worse that
understanding your fuel system, hydraulic system, control surface balance
and rigging, fabric application, etc.
Albert Einstein once said it very succinctly:
"Things should be made as simple as possible,
and no simpler."
Now, as for my choice for a PFD/MFD EFIS I am still leaning toward the Blue
Mountain EFIS-1. I have a tandem cockpit aircraft and need to provide
instrumentation to both cockpits. I can do it with the EFIS-1 just by adding
a second display. It has what I need to be able to fly an ILS. (I consider
basic-IFR capability to be a must in any aircraft as it enhances my ability
to complete a flight safely. YMMV) It provides full engine monitoring. My
backup will be a standard 3-pack of steam gauges, i.e. altimeter, AI, and
airspeed, or perhaps a Dynon D-10. Of course there will be a whiskey
compass. My perception is that EFIS-1 will reduce my wiring requirements.
But the Jury is still out. There are lots of companies coming along with
very nice PFDs and engine monitoring. I am considering GRT also but that
would entail two of everything to equip both cockpits and their price
advantage is pretty well lost at that point. Dynon is amazingly inexpensive
for what you get and is probably how I would go when equipping an aircraft
where cost is the real object and there are real estate issues. (I wish the
Dynon had been around when I was doing the panel in my RV-4.)
Those are my thoughts. They are worth every penny you paid for them. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
Pilots,
Send this to OTHER PILOTS and YOUR NON-FLYING FRIENDS. Then go to the AOPA
site listed below and give the
FAA your input.
Thanks.
Since 9/11, pilots are required to follow rules that most motorists would
consider ludicrous.
The analogy below describes what it takes to fly into an Air Defense
Identification Zone (ADIZ).
An ADIZ presently exists all around Washington D.C. The federal Aviation
Administration wants to make the Washington ADIZ permanent.
All MAJOR U.S. CITIES COULD BE NEXT.
Scenario...
Because of the Oklahoma City truck bombing, a law is passed that everyone
within 75 miles of any large city must place a call for every car trip they
make and give your name, car make, license plate number, what time you will be
leaving, specifically where you are going, and exactly when you expect to
arrive.
You will be given a number which you must write on a card and display in the
window for your entire drive. You will be given a time you can leave, and
what roads you are to follow.
You will need to call a traffic cop on your cell phone prior to leaving,
during the trip, and until you reach your destination. You will be required to
stay in constant communication. They will tell you when you are okay to enter
that 75 mile radius, and then you will talk to them for the entire drive,
including following any new instructions.
Now... If you take a wrong turn, fail to display the card properly, fail to
follow the traffic cop's instructions, lose cell phone coverage, or any of a
whole host of other things occur such as mechanical problems, you can lose
your drivers license, and possibly be arrested. If your cell phone signal
fades, the traffic cop gives confusing or contradictory instructions, or a little
dirt or sun glare makes the card hard to read, that is entirely your problem
to correct, or deal with the consequences.
If you drive a motorcycle and can't figure a way to mount the card or hear
the cell phone over the motor and wind noise, that is your problem.
If you get really lost and blunder into the wrong neighborhood, they might
blow up your car with you in it. Deadly force is not only likely, but
recommended.
You will have to do this everywhere you go, even if you pull into the street
to let you spouse out of the driveway. This is for every single-destination
trip. If you are running errands, you must treat each leg as a separate trip.
Good luck dealing with the authorities if you plan to depart or arrive
anywhere that doesn't have a traditional driveway or parking lot.
All skateboards, scooters, sleds, wagons, bicycles and tricycles are
prohibited within that 75 miles.
Sound ludicrous? Welcome to a fliers world.
Small airplanes follow these restrictions every day in the ADIZ areas even
though it is widely recognized that most general aviation aircraft cannot
carry enough explosives to create damage even close to the explosion in OKC.
Trucks however, are still allowed to drive right up to the front of most
office buildings. Any terrorist (aka idiot) can rent one, from Ryder.
All pilots are in favor of national security but there is a right way and a
wrong way to acquire it.
Creating a permanent ADIZ is the wrong way.
Aircraft first, then soon, automobiles.
The FAA has extended the ADIZ public comment period until February 6, 2006,
and will hold an AOPA-requested public meeting on its plan to make the
Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) permanent.
("AOPA" is the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.)
You can contact the FAA and voice your protest to this permanent ADIZ by
going to:
_http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/_ (http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/)
Thank you for your time, please act now.
Jay Carpenter
President - Texas Aviation Association
512-454-5455
_president(at)txaa.org_ (mailto:president(at)txaa.org)
_www.txaa.org_ (http://www.txaa.org)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> No, No, No. You want dual AHRS, with an electronic comparator hopefully. No
> if it's a VFR ONLY airplane, anything goes.
My brain is the comparator. I have to compare the display from the
EFIS-1 to the Dynon or 3-pack and make a decision as to which is right.
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver? |
Summit Racing also has the VDO dual sender for $26:
http://tinyurl.com/c2mfw
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of T.
Graziano
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:Oil Pressure warning light and hobbs driver?
-->
I may be wrong, but I believe the Rotac has a VDO Oil Pressure sender whcih
can be bought with two sender terminals - one terminal has an off/on switch
and the other has a variable resistor.
This is how I did it on the Jab 3000A, which came with two pick-ups on its
VDO sender.
The pickup labled WK on the VDO sender stands for warning contact, aka
"idiot light" pickup. This contact is normally closed with no oil pressure
and opens at about 8 psi. (The other pick up "feeds" the oil pressure
guage)
I installed a Radio Shcck PN 275-248 relay "velcroed" on the top of the
Hobbs (the relay is very small and rated for 10A at 24V). I wired the VDO
WK terminal to the NO coil pick up of the relay and the other relay coil
pickup wired to the master bus for its 12V pickup when the master is turned
on. This 12V wire is also spliced to feed into the COM of the relay. I then
wired the relay such that a wire from the NO on the relay fed to the + lead
of a red 12 V 1/4 in dia Radio Shack LED installed on the panel (the - lead
of the LED goes to ground). This LED lights up with the master switch ON
when there is zero or less than about 8 psi pressure. Another wire feeds
into the + of the Hobbs from the NC pickup of the relay. Another wire goes
from the - of the Hobbs to ground.
When there is Oil Press, the WK contact of the VDO opens and then the relay
switches the voltage/current to the Hobbs.
In summary. Zero or less than about 8 psi gives "idiot light" on panel.
On engine start, "idiot light" goes out (unless you have a problem) and
Hobbs starts running.
The relay and LED are very inexpensive. If you are unsure how to wire
them, study the diagram on the relay package, wire everything up on the
bench, and play with the combination.
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
Zodiac 601XL N493TG
-------------------
AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
>I have a Rotax 914 powering our Europa XS Monowheel. The oil pressure
>sender changes from 0 ohms to 200 ohms.
>
>Does any one make a device that that will turn on a light when oil
>pressure is low, and turn on a electric hobbs when oil pressure is up?
>
>Or a kit or plans?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Alan,
This was just poking a bit of fun at the idea of two AHRS giving one
true redundancy. In the case of the reference to the Crossbow AHRS,
right now if you have two....you have none, since the AD has taken them
out of service due to an identified deficiency which can make them
fail--hence unreliable for IFR work. So, in this instance, having two
of the same thing doesn't double your reliability.
Note: This was not a slam on the Crossbow. Just recognition that they
have a problem right now that they are working to resolve. How they fix
it and how they interact with their customers which they have
inconvenienced will be more revealing of their character than any flaw
that might have been missed despite certification testing and their best
design and QA efforts. Stuff happens.
To close out these ramblings, two of something, especially of the same
thing, does not constitute true redundancy of systems as they may share
the same fail-points.
Chuck Jensen
QUOTE: As an example....if you have two Crossbow AHRS, what do you have?
END QUOTE:
Not sure what that is suppose to mean.... It means the same thing
whether
you have two Crossbow, or GRT, or BMI, or XYZ company AHRS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Re: Sal Ammoniac--
Yes it's around. I keep a roll of yellow "Caution: Hazardous Chemical Spill" warning
tape around for when we need to use it. When a hot iron hits Sal Ammoniac,
it turns in to ammonia gas and hydrochloric acid vapor. Does a great job of
cleaning. And when the workers get sick, we just call INS and have them set
back across the border.
Re: Chore Boys. These are available everywhere from your local grocer to the hardware
store. Yes "Chore Boy" is a trade name for....ah.....whatever they're called.
Eric M. Jones
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3741#3741
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
Yes, but Chuck, let's make sure we have the correct information... The
certified version, the Crossbow 500 which ships in the certified Chelton
(and others), does *NOT* have the problem. There currently exists *NO* AD,
that I'm aware of.
The experimental EFIS companies that utilize the 425 series crossbow AHRS,
do have a problem, but it only exists as a service letter from crossbow at
the moment. Because there are none of these in certified airplanes, there
will never be an AD issued. So, this makes the crossbow problem, no
different than the "leaning" problem that BMA, Dynon, GRT, etc have at any
moments notice. You are advised of the problem, suggested that you use the
equipment for VFR only, but not grounded.
http://www.d2av.com/news_images/Service_Letter_NAV425_010506.pdf
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
Alan,
This was just poking a bit of fun at the idea of two AHRS giving one true
redundancy. In the case of the reference to the Crossbow AHRS, right now if
you have two....you have none, since the AD has taken them out of service
due to an identified deficiency which can make them fail--hence unreliable
for IFR work. So, in this instance, having two of the same thing doesn't
double your reliability.
Note: This was not a slam on the Crossbow. Just recognition that they have
a problem right now that they are working to resolve. How they fix it and
how they interact with their customers which they have inconvenienced will
be more revealing of their character than any flaw that might have been
missed despite certification testing and their best design and QA efforts.
Stuff happens.
To close out these ramblings, two of something, especially of the same
thing, does not constitute true redundancy of systems as they may share the
same fail-points.
Chuck Jensen
QUOTE: As an example....if you have two Crossbow AHRS, what do you have?
END QUOTE:
Not sure what that is suppose to mean.... It means the same thing whether
you have two Crossbow, or GRT, or BMI, or XYZ company AHRS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
Many thanks to the aeroelectric-list ... and appreciation for the
contributors to the "Solder Station" thread.
To sum up ... it went like this: "all we want to do is melt solder neatly,
cost effectively and efficiently". With this in mind the KISS method
pointed to ... "get the soldering skills up high and the cost low". That
led to Radio Shack because they have low cost supplies. Their Mini Butane
Gas Powered Iron is my choice for the heavy stuff. It's Model: 64-2188 ....
20 bucks. For the small to medium size wires there are several watt sizes.
Those from 40w down to 15w ... under 10 bucks.
For 30 bucks you're in the soldering business, now just practice ... oh! and
don't forget the stainless steel scrubbers
This list is the greatest thing since sliced bread, thanks.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Brian -
We have the EFIS/ONE and the Dynon D-10A as the backup. So far, it has
been fairly straight forward to install and check out. I just wish we
didn't have to fool around with all those pesky voltage dividers. There
are 18 resistors and a bunch of connections to add to the parts count.
Since we want to fly and file IFR, the major concern we have is putting
too many functions in one box (EFIS/ONE CPU). We decided against having
the BMA autopilot and installed a TruTrak DFC-250. This is controlled for
navigation purposes by a separate, certified IFR enroute and terminal
GPS/Com/Nav. The BMA GPS is simply not very powerful, especially with
entering and storing flight plans and is not certified for IFR navigation.
We wired the GPS to a separate CDI for legal IFR approaches. To make the
EFIS/ONE capable of monitoring a 6 cyl Continental, we would have had to
buy the extra card and still not have the value of features dedicated
engine data monitors, such as lean find. So we installed a JPI EDM 700 for
that. We also tapped off an oil pressure sender to run both the Hobbs and
a low oil pressure light. Finally, we installed a Proprietary Systems
Software AOA that is separate from most everything except the pitot and
systems.
Just another approach by two other OBAM builders. We did install Bob's
Z-14 as written.
Good to have you back on this list.
John Schroeder
Lancair ES - Painting
wrote:
> You sound like you are on the right track. I am debating between a Dynon
> D-10 and a 3-pack for my backup. Decisions, decisions ...
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
The GRT will also display the HSI from the SL30. And will tune the
SL30 from the MFD. Not to mention ILS and Localizer And will display your
engine monitor to either display you choose. Not sure how you get 6k for
engine monitoring. Last I checked a 6cyl was around $1100 with EIS and
probes. GRT is very helpful if there is a way to make it work they will try.
I have a KLN90B gps that Todd is trying figure out if it will work with
they're system now. It looks favorable, I am keeping my fingures and toes
crossed.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>
> sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Brian-
>>
>> with the GRT will you really need two of everything to have EFIS in the
>> back seat? I can't see why dual screens and single AHRS wouldn't work.
>> At about $9k, there would still be the price advantage over BMA.
>
> You forgot to add in the engine monitor function. I am not sure they
> support two displays for that. If I have to put in two engine monitors I
> have to add another $6000 for that. Now I am up to $15,000.
>
> In addition, I have a 9-cyl radial engine. That means 9xCHT and 9xEGT.
> The GRT engine monitor does not appear to meet my needs. Greg has
> assured me that the BMA EFIS-1 can handle a 9-cyl engine.
>
> Also, the BMA EFIS-1 performs as an HSI to display the nav data from my
> NavCom for VOR and ILS navigation thus eliminating the need for a
> VOR/ILS head. That is more hardware I don't have to buy and it gets
> repeated to the back seat. Useful if the GIB wants to fly the approach
> or if I am instructing and want to monitor the VOR/ILS needles.
>
> Basically an EFIS-1 with an Apollo/Garmin SL-30 NavCom and a transponder
> is a complete panel for the airplane. All I have to do is add enough to
> provide backup to make myself comfortable. If I have a Dynon or a
> 3-pack, I can use the built-in CDI display on the SL-30 to fly a LOC or
> VOR approach even if the EFIS-1 packs it in. I have reduced capability
> but should still be safe.
>
>> I'm an outsider looking in on this technology (currently fitting a new
>> panel blank for dual GRT with Dynon backup) so I may well be overlooking
>> something...
>
> You sound like you are on the right track. I am debating between a Dynon
> D-10 and a 3-pack for my backup. Decisions, decisions ...
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Just curious, why a separate CDI for IFR approahes if the BMA
show's CDI on screen ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
>
>
> Brian -
>
> We have the EFIS/ONE and the Dynon D-10A as the backup. So far, it has
> been fairly straight forward to install and check out. I just wish we
> didn't have to fool around with all those pesky voltage dividers. There
> are 18 resistors and a bunch of connections to add to the parts count.
>
> Since we want to fly and file IFR, the major concern we have is putting
> too many functions in one box (EFIS/ONE CPU). We decided against having
> the BMA autopilot and installed a TruTrak DFC-250. This is controlled for
> navigation purposes by a separate, certified IFR enroute and terminal
> GPS/Com/Nav. The BMA GPS is simply not very powerful, especially with
> entering and storing flight plans and is not certified for IFR navigation.
> We wired the GPS to a separate CDI for legal IFR approaches. To make the
> EFIS/ONE capable of monitoring a 6 cyl Continental, we would have had to
> buy the extra card and still not have the value of features dedicated
> engine data monitors, such as lean find. So we installed a JPI EDM 700 for
> that. We also tapped off an oil pressure sender to run both the Hobbs and
> a low oil pressure light. Finally, we installed a Proprietary Systems
> Software AOA that is separate from most everything except the pitot and
> systems.
>
> Just another approach by two other OBAM builders. We did install Bob's
> Z-14 as written.
>
> Good to have you back on this list.
>
> John Schroeder
> Lancair ES - Painting
>
>
> wrote:
>
>> You sound like you are on the right track. I am debating between a Dynon
>> D-10 and a 3-pack for my backup. Decisions, decisions ...
>
>
> --
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder Station |
>
> My most valuable suggestion is to AVOID the wet sponge
> mess and use a stainless steel chore-boy stuffed into a
> heavy pipe to clean your tip. I wish I'd know about this
> years earlier.
We use the sponges here but they MUST be cellulose.
Real sponge and plastics are not suited to the task.
Cleaning section of any grocery store has a 3-pak
of cellulose sponges for $1 or so.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
>
>Rick
>
>Snip...>does this offer any advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems
>aluminum would be slightly lighter, cheaper....
>
>The electric power company uses aluminum drops to your house, but for the
>grounding they use copper/zinc/etc. This is because aluminum is fine for
>higher voltages with the proper joints and anti-oxide goops, but to
>guarantee the ground won't float a couple volts is impossible with
>aluminum connections, and a real mess with low voltage, high current
>connections. The right way to do it would be to use aluminum
>bar/strap/whatever and a welded on aluminum-copper transition endpiece.
>(Google "aluminum copper transition"). Alternatively, copper or
>copper-clad-aluminum is your best bet.
>
>If you use Perihelion Design's Super-CCA for ground, you can strip off the
>insulation to save a bit more.
>
>If you choose to use plain aluminum...expect mysterious ground problems
>and the retrofit of a real ground at your first annual....
We need to make a distinction between aluminum strip having
the necessary cross section to replace an equal length of other
wire and the classic aluminum wire used by the power distribution
industry.
A strip of alclad aluminum is no more difficult to work with than
to simply use your aluminum airframe as a ground system. We use
airframe grounds all over the airplanes at RAC and this is not
an automatic recipe for problems. It's really coarse/soft
aluminum in the old wire that make it difficult to achieve
gas tight joints and the coarse stranding is particularly vulnerable
to vibration issues.
The fine stranding of Eric's copper-clad wires combined with the
solder and crimp friendly copper surface alleviates all the issues
with the older wire but it doesn't preclude consideration of
a continuous, flat aluminum strip especially when they can be covered
up with glass and epoxy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
There has been a series of discussions of this on the BMA Discussion
Board. Check there. YOU have to have a certified CDI to display the
certified GPS information if you want to fly IFR enroute and IFR GPS
approaches. EAA also has a paper on the subject.
wrote:
> Just curious, why a separate CDI for IFR approahes if the BMA
> show's CDI on screen ?
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
John, I might be wrong and just went to look on the BMA site. I didn't find
anything specifically, nor did I find it on or searching around the EAA
site.
Can you post a link? You sure you aren't confusing the issue of using the
BMA with a CNX-480 and the fact that you can't get all the nav signals that
are needed, some most are using an external head?
The link to specifics would help if you could please? I'm curious as well
as I'm going down the road to a chelton panel for a Legacy and want to make
sure I don't mess up. Guys at D2AV say I don't need and external CDI...
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: ***SPAM*** Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
-->
There has been a series of discussions of this on the BMA Discussion Board.
Check there. YOU have to have a certified CDI to display the certified GPS
information if you want to fly IFR enroute and IFR GPS approaches. EAA also
has a paper on the subject.
wrote:
> Just curious, why a separate CDI for IFR approahes if the
> BMA show's CDI on screen ?
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Rick said: Snip...>>does this offer any advantage over a long aluminum bar? Seems
aluminum would be slightly lighter, cheaper....
Eric Said: >>The electric power company uses aluminum drops to your house, but
for the grounding they use copper/zinc/etc. This is because aluminum is fine for
higher voltages with the proper joints and anti-oxide goops, but to guarantee
the ground won't float a couple volts is impossible with aluminum connections,
and a real mess with low voltage, high current connections. The right way
to do it would be to use aluminum
bar/strap/whatever and a welded on aluminum-copper transition endpiece. (Google
"aluminum copper transition"). Alternatively, copper or
copper-clad-aluminum is your best bet.
If you choose to use plain aluminum...expect mysterious ground problems and the
retrofit of a real ground at your first annual....
Bob N, Said>>
We need to make a distinction between aluminum strip having
the necessary cross section to replace an equal length of other
wire and the classic aluminum wire used by the power distribution
industry.
A strip of alclad aluminum is no more difficult to work with than
to simply use your aluminum airframe as a ground system. We use
airframe grounds all over the airplanes at RAC and this is not
an automatic recipe for problems. It's really coarse/soft
aluminum in the old wire that make it difficult to achieve
gas tight joints and the coarse stranding is particularly vulnerable
to vibration issues.
Eric Says: Bob, It's true that metal aircraft use the skin as a conductor, for
lighting and antennas, but I would guess where grounding is a big concern, like
sensors and complex electronics a copper ground is added. That's also why remote
industrial sensors are usually current loops, not voltage levels.
The forest of tabs is such a good idea...single point grounds.
Earlier Charlie Asked: >>I've often wondered if the 'aluminum brazing' products
hyped at flyins & available at welding shops could be used to transition from
AL bar stock to a copper tab for mechanical connections. They are supposed to
work on 'most non-ferrous metals'. This might accomplish Rick's goal of light,
cheap, simple, safe. Is that worth exploring?
Eric Says: The melting points of aluminum and copper are so different that successfully
joining the two is not a matter for the amateur. I'm guessing that the
required tools are generally outside the range of homebuilders.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3831#3831
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
I'm pretty sure you can use a GNS430 without a CDI for GPS Enroute and
Approach? . . . It has a "CDI" of sorts built in. I plan to use the EHSI
function of the BMA Lite for ILS and or VOR CDI function and I believe that
is OK too? The GPS in the "Lite" should make a nice backup too.
Regards,
Bob
On 1/13/06, John Schroeder wrote:
>
> jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
>
> There has been a series of discussions of this on the BMA Discussion
> Board. Check there. YOU have to have a certified CDI to display the
> certified GPS information if you want to fly IFR enroute and IFR GPS
> approaches. EAA also has a paper on the subject.
>
>
> wrote:
>
> > Just curious, why a separate CDI for IFR approahes if the BMA
> > show's CDI on screen ?
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Good Morning Bob,
Do you intend to use the 430 IFR or VFR?
Do you want to execute full ILS approaches?
For VFR, there is no question that a CDI is not needed.
For IFR, things get a bit stickier. Beyond that, it makes a difference if
the aircraft is experimental or normal category.
Do you intend to use an autopilot with the GPS?
There is no question in my mind as to whether or not the set can be used
successfully without a CDI for any and all GPS functions it is capable of
performing. Unfortunately, the FAA may not agree with that statement!
Let us know precisely how you want to use it and we may be able to offer
some help.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/14/2006 2:49:44 A.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
I'm pretty sure you can use a GNS430 without a CDI for GPS Enroute and
Approach? . . . It has a "CDI" of sorts built in. I plan to use the EHSI
function of the BMA Lite for ILS and or VOR CDI function and I believe that
is OK too? The GPS in the "Lite" should make a nice backup too.
Regards,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Bus Avionics Switch ? |
----- Original Message -----
>
>
> Just thinking? On any of the Endurance Bus drawings. Other than the
> "don't
> really need it" discussion and parts count issue, what would the downsides
> be of adding a S704 contactor between the D25 and E-Bus so that you
> effectively used the whole E-bus as an Avionics bus. This would assume
> that
> the E-bus load can be easily carried by the S704 which I think is rated at
> 20 amps and has low continuous draw. It would actually save several
> switches for EFIS systems like the GRT which are not internally switched.
>
I don't see any problem other than having a switch that could fail that
would stop current from getting to the e-bus. But that problem is covered
because you have a switch to energize on the e-bus and bypass the D25 route.
I think your idea is a good way to implement the avionics bus capability. I
have been running my plane without an avionics bus and switch but have run
on occassions when I would like to turn the master on and not have my
transponder, encoder, and Dynon power up. I think I will implement your
idea. If it turns out to be a problem, I will report back here.
Bob N might want to consider this but I doubt that he will due to his
thinking that today's instruments/radios do not need the protection of an
avionics bus; But it does have some convience.
Indiana Larry, RV7 78 hours
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
Achieving a certain level of success in life is only important if
you can finally enjoy the level after you've reached it.
L R Helming
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Hi Bob,
It is a RV8 and I plan to fly some "light" IFR . . . I don't know what you
mean by "full ILS approaches" but my intent is to fly GPS/VOR enroute
and GPS, VOR and ILS approaches with a GNS430 . . . the only "non TSO'd"
piece of the puzzle is the BMA/Lite(G3). I also have a DigiTrak auto
pilot.
Anything I've read to date leads me to feel this meets the language and
intent of the FARs, etc.?
Thanks,
Bob
On 1/14/06, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Good Morning Bob,
>
> Do you intend to use the 430 IFR or VFR?
>
> Do you want to execute full ILS approaches?
>
> For VFR, there is no question that a CDI is not needed.
>
> For IFR, things get a bit stickier. Beyond that, it makes a difference
> if
> the aircraft is experimental or normal category.
>
> Do you intend to use an autopilot with the GPS?
>
> There is no question in my mind as to whether or not the set can be used
> successfully without a CDI for any and all GPS functions it is capable of
> performing. Unfortunately, the FAA may not agree with that statement!
>
> Let us know precisely how you want to use it and we may be able to offer
> some help.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 1/14/2006 2:49:44 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> I'm pretty sure you can use a GNS430 without a CDI for GPS Enroute and
> Approach? . . . It has a "CDI" of sorts built in. I plan to use the
> EHSI
> function of the BMA Lite for ILS and or VOR CDI function and I believe
> that
> is OK too? The GPS in the "Lite" should make a nice backup too.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
The 430 does not have glide slope indicator. Therefore the on-board CDI
is not enough to fly the ILS, jus the localizer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
C.
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: ***SPAM*** Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Comparisons
Hi Bob,
It is a RV8 and I plan to fly some "light" IFR . . . I don't know what
you
mean by "full ILS approaches" but my intent is to fly GPS/VOR enroute
and GPS, VOR and ILS approaches with a GNS430 . . . the only "non TSO'd"
piece of the puzzle is the BMA/Lite(G3). I also have a DigiTrak auto
pilot.
Anything I've read to date leads me to feel this meets the language and
intent of the FARs, etc.?
Thanks,
Bob
On 1/14/06, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Good Morning Bob,
>
> Do you intend to use the 430 IFR or VFR?
>
> Do you want to execute full ILS approaches?
>
> For VFR, there is no question that a CDI is not needed.
>
> For IFR, things get a bit stickier. Beyond that, it makes a
difference
> if
> the aircraft is experimental or normal category.
>
> Do you intend to use an autopilot with the GPS?
>
> There is no question in my mind as to whether or not the set can be
used
> successfully without a CDI for any and all GPS functions it is capable
of
> performing. Unfortunately, the FAA may not agree with that statement!
>
> Let us know precisely how you want to use it and we may be able to
offer
> some help.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 1/14/2006 2:49:44 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> I'm pretty sure you can use a GNS430 without a CDI for GPS Enroute
and
> Approach? . . . It has a "CDI" of sorts built in. I plan to use the
> EHSI
> function of the BMA Lite for ILS and or VOR CDI function and I
believe
> that
> is OK too? The GPS in the "Lite" should make a nice backup too.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Common Grounding |
"Eric M. Jones" wrote:
>
> Earlier Charlie Asked: >>I've often wondered if the 'aluminum brazing' products
hyped at flyins & available at welding shops could be used to transition from
AL bar stock to a copper tab for mechanical connections. They are supposed
to work on 'most non-ferrous metals'. This might accomplish Rick's goal of light,
cheap, simple, safe. Is that worth exploring?
>
> Eric Says: The melting points of aluminum and copper are so different that successfully
joining the two is not a matter for the amateur. I'm guessing that
the required tools are generally outside the range of homebuilders.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
Hi Eric,
This stuff doesn't operate at the melting point. Brazing is a
soldering process rather than welding. I've made a couple of test
joinings of aluminum to aluminum but never actually used it for
anything yet. (It seemed like I would use it more when I saw it at a
trade show.) It takes a little practice, but isn't that hard to do. I
think Charlie's suggestion would be worth a try.
Bob W.
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
Good Morning Bob,
The reference to "full" ILS was meant to include a glide slope. There is no
way that I am aware of to see the glide slope on the 430 control unit face.
Consequently a CDI is needed. While I am not very familiar with how the 430
works, I also believe you will need a resolver to input VOR radials for the
January 06, 2006 - January 14, 2006
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fg