AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fi
January 19, 2006 - January 30, 2006
> spin. The recovery was traumatic.
> He then explained - no other instrument could recover from that
> manoeuvre but the T&B.
Well, I might disagree with that but it depends on the AI. I must admit
I have developed a great deal of respect for the "upside down" AI
(vertical gyro) that the Chinese and Russians use in their airplanes.
They have one in the Yak-52 and it works just fine through the full
range of unlimited category aerobatic maneuvers, including tumbling and
gyroscopic maneuvers. Of course, they also have a T&SI.
> The first thing you gotta do is 'stop the yaw with
> the rudders, then assess the result, if airspeed then level the wings with
> the ailerons, and apply the throttle as required, bring her level and trim'.
OK. There is also the standard spin recovery that goes:
1. Close the throttle.
2. Stick center and slightly forward. The Chinese even paint a vertical
white line on the center of the panel to remind the student where the
stick goes.
3. Press on the hard rudder until the turn stops.
4. Keep the turn stopped with the rudder.
5. The airplane is accelerating and has flying speed so start to ease
back on the stick to bring the nose up.
6. Now pitch and power to maintain level flight.
This should recover from any unusual attitude, albeit perhaps with a bit
of extra airspeed.
> In ensuing weeks we expanded the idea, and soon I was happy if I
> had anything MORE than needle, ball and airspeed. So, Bob, maybe it should
> be Stop the Yaw, then Stop the Bank, then airspeed.
> What's true is that one must be familiar with the aircraft to
> get the most out of it - and perhaps few of us do that.
Ahh, you got that right. Most students have been made so scared of the
edges of the envelope that they never get anywhere near there and don't
know how their airplanes will behave out there. You don't really
appreciate why you want to do incipient stall recovery until you are
allowed to take it over the edge and then bring it back.
> Ferg
> PS: maybe it should be ball, needle and airspeed since that's the order of
> use.
I think I need to put on the hood and go play with this.
And I think we are pretty well agreed at this point that we would rather
have a T&SI than a TC.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com.Interface? |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 to JPI FS-450 Fuel Flow Interface? |
Hi JC-
Funny, I am just doing the same thing with different equipment - I have a
296 and an Electronics Int'l FP-5L fuel totatilizer.
Pg. 158 of the 396 pilot's guide shows the pinout (I can email you the page
if you don't have it). Data out on the 396 is blue - this should go to the
GPS input on the FS-450. The 396 output needs to be set to whatever
standard JPI can read (most of the quipment can "read" NMEA). I am assuming
you'll need to buy a power/data connector with bare cable ends (the 296 did
not come with such cable) - so you can use the same cable to power the 396
and to signal-feed the JPI fuel flow. I'd terminate the 396 bare ends cable
into a DIN-5 or sub D-9 in order to have everything available (don't know
if the 396 alarms are available in aviation mode - the 296 alarms are for
auto mode only). With a DIN-5 os sub D-9 on the other end of the bare ends
cable you'll have enough pins in one connector to be able to feed the music
of 396 etc.
Good luck
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from JC5404L; Date: 04:42 PM 1/19/2006 -0500)
Greetings;
Does anyone have a means of connecting the new 396 to the FS-450 Fuel Flow
monitor?
A wiring diragram/hints/instructions would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks;
JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 396 to JPI FS-450 Fuel Flow Interface? |
I don't think you can do it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JC5404L
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 396 to JPI FS-450 Fuel Flow
Interface?
Greetings;
Does anyone have a means of connecting the new 396 to the FS-450 Fuel Flow
monitor?
A wiring diragram/hints/instructions would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks;
JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com.Interface? |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 to JPI FS-450 Fuel Flow Interface? |
Hi again JC-
I just found a file of the FS450 manual on my computer.
Pg. 20 of FS450 Pilot's manual Re. D 11/2001 shows the FS450 pinout.
Pin 9 is for GPS-in ("from GPS"). The signal compatibility table indicates
that most every GPS on the market today with serial output should be able
to work with FS450 to show MPG, RES(serve) and REQ(uired) (see table on pg.
8 of the pilot's manual). If this is the purpose pin 9 on the back of the
FS450 needs to be connected to Data Out (blue) of the 396.
If you are talking fuel data to GPS (the opposite scenario and different
goal), then the choices are probably much more restricted in terms of GPS
selection.
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon(at)ptcnet.net> |
Cc:
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Floscan 201B varnish? |
Seems it would be a lot easier to switch over to an approved fuel that does
no harm to the transducer just before shutting down the system if that is
possible. Adding a small tank of approved fuel with a fuel selector would
do it.
On my plane I have only one transducer that is located down stream after the
tank selector switch. I run mogas in one tank and 100LL in the other. I
always take off and land on the 100LL tank.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 78 hours
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
>
> We are working on our 914 fuel system. It has 2 Floscan 201B transducers
> for flow gauge.
>
> I called Flowscan about installation, and was told if using mogas, you
> need to drain lines so there is no fuel in the transducer, or else the
> optics will get varnished over. He said 70 to 80% of the time you can take
> out the transducer and put a pipe plug in 1 end and use carb and choke
> cleaner and let it sit. But if that does not work the transducer is not
> serviceable.
>
> Have those out there using mogas and 201Bs been draining lines during
> times of inactivity?
>
> How many have needed to clean or replace 201Bs?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <harleyrider.57(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Xm Satellite to intercom |
Hi All,
I'm new to the list and this is my 1st question. I'm building a Bearhawk and getting
ready to start on the panel and electrical connections.
I am planning an Audiovox XM satellite connected to my PS Engineering PM2000 intercom.
The audiovox is designed to transmit to your car's FM radio but it does
have an output for headphones. My question is, if I hook up the headphone
output to the intercom, will I need to amplify the signal somehow or will a direct
connection work? If amplification is needed, where can I get it?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682
http://mybearhawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
I'll second the compliment Old Bob!
The ergonomics of a T&B is also worth consideration IMO.
I've never misinterpreted a T&B or wasted seconds trying to interpret
what it was telling me. Under stress, some level of my brain is confused
when a TC moves in the opposite physical direction as the horizon. And
I've also yet to see a note on a T&B reminding me that it does not
provide pitch attitude...
Ken L.
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>In a message dated 1/18/2006 1:20:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>kennethward(at)peoplepc.com writes:
>
>I thank you very much for that gold nugget of knowledge.
>
>I love it when somebody who actually knows what they're talking about
can,
>in a single sentence, take scattered facts bouncing about my brain
and turn it
>into knowledge.
>
>Ken Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Xm Satellite to intercom |
On Jan 20, 2006, at 7:42 AM, Eric Newton wrote:
> 57(at)juno.com>
>
> Hi All,
> I'm new to the list and this is my 1st question. I'm building a
> Bearhawk and getting ready to start on the panel and electrical
> connections.
>
> I am planning an Audiovox XM satellite connected to my PS
> Engineering PM2000 intercom. The audiovox is designed to transmit
> to your car's FM radio but it does have an output for headphones.
> My question is, if I hook up the headphone output to the intercom,
> will I need to amplify the signal somehow or will a direct
> connection work? If amplification is needed, where can I get it?
>
>
Eric, the PS Engineering intercoms have "music input" pins that are
what you want. I don't remember the pin numbers off the top of my
head, but the diagrams are available online. I ordered my radios
from John Stark, and he sent them pre-wired, with each wire labeled.
I soldered the labeled wires to a female headphone jack (a buck or to
from Radio Shack) that I put in a convenient place, and now I can
listen to my XM, or ipod, or whatever, in flight. Very easy to do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Xm Satellite to intercom |
Eric,
Please make sure that you can turn the FM transmitter off! You don't
want that FM transmitter broadcasting while you have it in your
panel. There are other units out there that have aux. outputs for
this purpose and where you can turn the FM off. The unit that I'm
using is the SkyFi2 and it has all these features.
On Jan 20, 2006, at 5:42 AM, Eric Newton wrote:
> 57(at)juno.com>
>
> Hi All,
> I'm new to the list and this is my 1st question. I'm building a
> Bearhawk and getting ready to start on the panel and electrical
> connections.
>
> I am planning an Audiovox XM satellite connected to my PS
> Engineering PM2000 intercom. The audiovox is designed to transmit
> to your car's FM radio but it does have an output for headphones.
> My question is, if I hook up the headphone output to the intercom,
> will I need to amplify the signal somehow or will a direct
> connection work? If amplification is needed, where can I get it?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
> BH #682
> http://mybearhawk.com
>
>
Best Regards,
Steve Thomas
SteveT.Net
steve(at)stevet.net
805-569-0336 Office
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax oil sender with switch |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Thx, for the replies about using a VDO sender with an additional contact
to run a low oil light and hobbs.
Lockwood Aviation now sells those senders.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Iso Amp - 2 stereo - 3 mono inputs |
Hi Bob,
I am shamelessly copying your Iso Amp and modifying it to have 2 stereo
inputs. In the schematics, you show the input to the op amp as pin 3 on the
right channel and pin 2 on the left channel. I am not an electronics guy,
but a EE friend said this would seem this would put the channels out of
phase. This might be trick to deal with the mono inputs, could you
comment?
My daughter and I are going to draw the schematics, lay out the boards and
make the device as her science fair project. Then we will put it in the RV.
Bob - thanks for all your help.
Pete
Are you going to listen to both at the same time? A DPDT
switch would let you select which source was being
fed to the amplifier. Alternatively, you add second input
networks of a 150 ohm resistor, 10uF cap to pin 2 of amplifier
for each channel. Loaded of course as appropriate (R98/99).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Danny L. Smith" <dsmit132(at)bellsouth.net> |
Lectric Bob, did you get your new TurboCad from eBay? If yes, how do you
like it?
Danny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Lectric Bob, did you get your new TurboCad from eBay? If yes, how do you
>like it?
>Danny
It's quite a bargain. Very capable for the money and quite able
to open, edit, print and save the drawings from my website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <limadelta(at)gmail.com> |
Has anyone found a CAD program that works with Linux? I still have a
Windows boot on which I can use Intellicad quite effectively, but I dual
boot Linux and would like a Linux CAD program capable of reading dwg files.
There is one that does dxf files (it's called QCad), but I don't know of a
reasonably priced Linux variant that handles dwg files. Anyone know of one?
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Dan,
I don't know if you would consider it reasonably priced, but for $499
VariCAD is a very capable product. It will open dxf, AutoCAD dwg and
igs files as well as it's own format. There is a version for Linux and
Windows. There is also a free VariCAD viewer that will open all of
those formats, but best I can tell it's only available for Windows.
Bob W.
"Dan O'Brien" wrote:
>
> Has anyone found a CAD program that works with Linux? I still have a
> Windows boot on which I can use Intellicad quite effectively, but I dual
> boot Linux and would like a Linux CAD program capable of reading dwg files.
> There is one that does dxf files (it's called QCad), but I don't know of a
> reasonably priced Linux variant that handles dwg files. Anyone know of one?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.bob-white.com
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Anyone using or know where to get a low amp draw when energized battery
master contactor?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US a crit :
>
>Anyone using or know where to get a low amp draw when energized battery
>master contactor?
>
>
>
Hi Ron,
We're using Kilovac EV-200 AAANA. A bit expensive, but very good stuff,
with 0.14 amp draw.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Gilles
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
"We're using Kilovac EV-200 AAANA. A bit expensive, but very good stuff,
with 0.14 amp draw."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Hi Danny
I also bought version 10 for $16. from "Computer's Worth" and upgraded
it to 10.2 from the IMSI website. As a new CAD user I am very pleased
with it compared to the freeware/shareware CAD
programs that I've dabbled with a bit. The printed manual is pretty good
and worth more than the $16. The manual is also available on the
website. I haven't mastered how to move a component and keep both ends
of the wires attached like I could do with Excel. However after several
hours with it I am able to do most everything else including modifying
Bob's symbols. It is going to take me quite sometime to actually do a
wirebook however so I'd still have to give the nod to paper and pencil
unless you want professional diagrams or have a desire to learn a CAD
program. I haven't tried printing anything yet. Excel was easier to
learn but of course had no symbol library.
Ken
Danny L. Smith wrote:
>
>Lectric Bob, did you get your new TurboCad from eBay? If yes, how do you
>like it?
>Danny
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Iso Amp - 2 stereo - 3 mono inputs |
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am shamelessly copying your Iso Amp and modifying it to have 2 stereo
>inputs. In the schematics, you show the input to the op amp as pin 3 on the
>right channel and pin 2 on the left channel. I am not an electronics guy,
>but a EE friend said this would seem this would put the channels out of
>phase. This might be trick to deal with the mono inputs, could you
>comment?
Your friend has a shape eye. This was brought to my attention
some months ago and a change was initiated to swap pin 2/3 on
on of the chips. I did some experiments here on the bench to
swap phase on one channel of stereo programming and couldn't
detect what I'd call a deleterious difference. My audiophile
friends at RAC suggested that a combination of right-left
isolation and/or adaptiveness of human hearing mechanisms made
it no big deal with headphones. When listening through speakers
the out-of-phase common components of sound "mix" in free
air and become more of an issue.
For this reason, I've left the current stock of boards alone.
Revision 2 has swapped the pin on one amplifier and added
spaces for the R99, R98 load resistors needed by some audio
sources.
We're debating whether to add an audio isolation amplifier
to the suite of products under development at the 'Connection.
There seems to be a lot of interest in more mono inputs, on-board
potentiometers for leveling volumes and perhaps a discrete input
for silencing the entertainment audio when cockpit duties call
for attention to aircraft audio sources.
If we did this as a product, it would probably be surface mount
parts and not suited to a DIY project. We'd probably continue
to offer the DIY -2 board as well.
>My daughter and I are going to draw the schematics, lay out the boards and
>make the device as her science fair project. Then we will put it in the RV.
Good for both of you! I presume you've discovered some of the free
layout programs and associated low-cost board fabrication offers
like http://www.expresspcb.com/
I use these guys a lot.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Hi Danny
>I also bought version 10 for $16. from "Computer's Worth" and upgraded
>it to 10.2 from the IMSI website. As a new CAD user I am very pleased
>with it compared to the freeware/shareware CAD
>programs that I've dabbled with a bit. The printed manual is pretty good
>and worth more than the $16. The manual is also available on the
>website. I haven't mastered how to move a component and keep both ends
>of the wires attached like I could do with Excel. However after several
>hours with it I am able to do most everything else including modifying
>Bob's symbols. It is going to take me quite sometime to actually do a
>wirebook however so I'd still have to give the nod to paper and pencil
>unless you want professional diagrams or have a desire to learn a CAD
>program. I haven't tried printing anything yet. Excel was easier to
>learn but of course had no symbol library.
>Ken
Ken brings up a good point. All of you need to concentrate on
one thing . . . the date that first light appears under the
wheels. While an accurate and well crafted wire book will enhance
the future repairs and sales efforts of your project, it does
not help you get the project done.
In my weekend seminars, I suggest that the #2 pencil, pink eraser
and spiral bound notebook are the documentation tools of choice.
Break the task down into page per system drawings. Get the DATA
recorded accurately.
Taking time to pretty up the data is best done after the project
is completed. But even if you don't convert the drawings to computer
images, the all important Lab Notebook is the root repository of all
that is knowable. Make copies of the pages and put them away in a
safe place.
The easiest way to go from pencil to pixels is to take one of hte
wirebooks in progress from my website and push thing around,
add and delete as needed to match what you're doing. The wirebooks
on the website are for a rather complex airplane . . . you're
more likely to need to delete things than to add things. As time
permits, I'm going to break down existing wirebook drawings and
post them in the page per system ( http://aeroelectric.com/PPS )
folder on the website in both .pdf and .dwg form. You can print
and insert the .pdf pages into a manually generated document or
take the .dwg form and integrate it into a more professional
set of CAD drawings.
Aside from the entertainment and/or personal satisfaction of
learning a new piece of software, I'll suggest that getting
up to speed on a CAD system is not moving you toward The Goal
any faster.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
JFTR...
Many Artex remote switch units DO NOT require a battery, but are instead
hardwired to ship's power.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rv-9a-online
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Hi Ron,
The only solution I am aware of is the Kilovac Czonka III EV200aaana. Allied electronics
and other have them. The same thing is available from Blue Sea p/n 9012.
On eBay, the Blue Sea parts always seem to be available for about $100.
Not only does the part have a very low current draw, but it will open against conditions
like runaway alternators or shorts. The other "silver-can" types may
not be able to do this, and they draw about 1 ampere.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=5937#5937
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bbradburry(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
I am pretty certain that is not true.
Also I wonder if the new radio reporting meters can have their calibration
changed via radio???
Thanks for any assistance..
BB Shott from Vinita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
bbradburry(at)allvantage.com wrote:
>
> Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
> residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
> to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
> I am pretty certain that is not true.
Turn off everything in your house (best to just open all the breakers)
and then plug in a known resistive load like a big heater into the one
circuit you leave on. Check its current draw with a clamp-on ammeter.
Measure your voltage and let the heater run for a known amount of time.
Figure watts (V*A) and multiply by time in hours. Divide by 1000 and the
result is KWH. Your meter reading and your calculations should be the same.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Richardson" <jrichard(at)ccser.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor..pulse |
interference
Eric and Others..
The EV200 uses a pulsed coil energizer scheme to enable a low average
current draw to hold the coil in place. Normal aircraft contactors use DC
to close the coil then the same DC to hold the coil in place. I talked to
the Kilovac rep about the pulse circuit and he said they have had a few
complaints about interference from the pulsing. I'm not sure what kind of
interference, but I suspect conducted interference on the coil energizing
line spreading into other sensitive audio circuits.
Here's a web link to the EV200 PDF datasheet
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
Has anyone experienced this interference and does the normal filter scheme
for noisy loads published by 'lectric Bob take care of it?
John Richardson
jrichard(at)ccser.com
Spokane WA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Low amp draw battery master contactor?
Hi Ron,
The only solution I am aware of is the Kilovac Czonka III EV200aaana. Allied
electronics and other have them. The same thing is available from Blue Sea
p/n 9012. On eBay, the Blue Sea parts always seem to be available for about
$100.
Not only does the part have a very low current draw, but it will open
against conditions like runaway alternators or shorts. The other
"silver-can" types may not be able to do this, and they draw about 1 ampere.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=5937#5937
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
>
>
>
>I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
>am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
>some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
>connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
>full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
>you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
>something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
>this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
>extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
I found a diagram calling out connections to the MD200-306 at
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_FullStackWiring-TwoSL30SCH0103.pdf
Seems that 19, and 20 are 14 and 28v annunciator power.
23 and 24 are 14 and 28v dimmer for illumination. These
might be the same sources if you want the illumination and
annunciation to track.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: EV200 Conducted emissions |
>
>
>Eric and Others..
>
>The EV200 uses a pulsed coil energizer scheme to enable a low average
>current draw to hold the coil in place. Normal aircraft contactors use DC
>to close the coil then the same DC to hold the coil in place. I talked to
>the Kilovac rep about the pulse circuit and he said they have had a few
>complaints about interference from the pulsing. I'm not sure what kind of
>interference, but I suspect conducted interference on the coil energizing
>line spreading into other sensitive audio circuits.
>
>Here's a web link to the EV200 PDF datasheet
>
> http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
>
>Has anyone experienced this interference and does the normal filter scheme
>for noisy loads published by 'lectric Bob take care of it?
Hmmmm . . . "noisy" isn't very definitive. I've been spending most of
my time for the past two weeks in the EMC lab (best duty at RAC . . .
if you need some thinking time. Dark, quiet, environmentally controlled,
nothing to do but watch the paint dry). I think I saw one of those
contactors in a junk box over in experimental flight test. If I can
put my hands on it, I'll see if I can take a quick peek at conducted
emissions for this critter. If I can't find it, maybe the Tyco guys
will sample me one.
In any case, never met a noise I couldn't filter . . . but I have
seen some filters that nobody wanted to put in their airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
illuminated.
I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
this capability?
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
Dean,
Hooked mine up a few weeks ago. The Annunciator lights are
the little words, like GPS, and NAV. Yes, you need to
put in a dimmer circuit for the backlighting. No post lights
needed. You give it the dimmer voltage at pin 23, and hook
pins 22 and 21 to ground. You won't use pin 25. You can
use all sorts of dimmers, but I used the $20 one from
Van's. Simple and works fine for the job, and I dim 3
other items with it as they are all fairly low draw.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>
> I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306) and I
> am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to supply
> some sort of lighting. The (Spartan) instruction manual shows lighting
> connections but I'm not sure if they are for the annunciator lights or for
> full facial lighting. Those who've used this instrument in your panels, do
> you remember if it is internally lit or will I need to supply post lights or
> something similar? I emailed Mid Content Instruments several days ago about
> this but apparently their entire technical support department is on an
> extended vacation! Thanks for all the help.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Garforth" <richard(at)hawk.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Skymap IIIc Install manual |
I am trying to source a link to a maintenance/install manual for a Skymap IIIc
so I can change the internal lithium battery. Can anyone help please ??
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Markey <markeypilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Remote ELT Battery Change Timing |
The Ameri-King AK-450 ELT I have requires 2 hearing aid sized silver oxides to
be replaced about every 5-7 years in the panel remote switch. It looks like these
batteries power the led ON-indicator if the unit is switched ON either by
a "good" landing or an accidental pushing on the remote ON-switch. The black remote
must come out to unscrew the case to get to the batteries.The Ameri-King
sight mentions the 4 D-cells needed for the ELT but not the little button batteries
for the remote.
John Markey
Vern wrote:
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an inspector) was not
aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote
on your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
In a message dated 1/23/06 12:03:50 AM Central Standard Time,
nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
> I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
> this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
> some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
> over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
> on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
> any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
> this capability?
>>>>>
I used a couple of Altronix 6062 timer boards suggested by John P. Marzluf
several years ago- they perform fine, but your solution is likely a more elegant
way to accomplish this.
Here's a message from archives:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=17746345?KEYS=outback?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=84?SERIAL=0627595069?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
and my implementation of them:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5003
They are the blue boards on the tray.
Would like to see what ya got in mind, Bob- probably something about the size
of a postage stamp, no doubt...
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Waxed lacing cord techniques? |
I am adding an intercom to my plane (a Pietenpol), and want to re-do all of the
wiring harnesses (not very many in a Pietenpol). I gave it a shot last night,
but after my first go at it, I think there are probably some techniques for
knots that I don't know. Can anyone point me to a "how to" site, or give me
some tips on knot tying? How many knots per foot is typical? I think mine
will hold, but there is probably a better way to do it.
Thanks for any tips!
Steve Ruse
N6383J - Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Subject-Power meter calibration |
If you think it's not calibrated because you got an astronomically high
electric bill last month, join the crowd.
Dave Morris
At 04:23 PM 1/22/2006, you wrote:
>
>Sorry about being off subject, but does anyone know how the power meter on a
>residence could be checked for calibration? The power company tells me not
>to worry...The meter is correct...HA!
>I am pretty certain that is not true.
>
>Also I wonder if the new radio reporting meters can have their calibration
>changed via radio???
>
>Thanks for any assistance..
>
>BB Shott from Vinita
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Waxed lacing cord techniques? |
I should have done a little more searching before I posted. I found this link
to a copy of a tutorial from the Bureau of Naval Weapons, circa 1962. Seems
like pretty good information, I figured someone else might be interested too:
http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
I'm still interested in anyone's comments.
Steve
Quoting Steve Ruse :
>
>
> I am adding an intercom to my plane (a Pietenpol), and want to re-do
> all of the
> wiring harnesses (not very many in a Pietenpol). I gave it a shot
> last night,
> but after my first go at it, I think there are probably some techniques for
> knots that I don't know. Can anyone point me to a "how to" site, or give me
> some tips on knot tying? How many knots per foot is typical? I think mine
> will hold, but there is probably a better way to do it.
>
> Thanks for any tips!
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> float switches? |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
Bob, I have a switch float in my header tank that I use to control the pump
that feeds the header. (Other Dragonfly builders manually switch the pump
on and off, watching a big red light, and install a huger overflow tube.)
I was planning to install a 1 minute timer, so that when the float
indicates a full tank, the pump switches off for 1 solid minute, before
being allowed to come on again (if the float indicates it's time to run
again). Basically a kind of debounce circuit. I think that can be done
with a simple 555 circuit or even some of the off-the-shelf timer kits from
QKits.
Dave Morris
At 12:00 AM 1/23/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
>make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
>definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
>illuminated.
>
>I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
>this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
>some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
>over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
>on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
>any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
>this capability?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Waxed lacing cord techniques? |
Steve,
I haven't seen any responses to this, so you might want to look at AC
43.13-1B, there is a section on typing knots for wire bundles. I also think
Bob Nuckolls might have a comic book somewhere on his site that shows the
technique at
www.aeroelectric.com
Hope this helps.
Pat Hatch
RV-6
RV-7
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Waxed lacing cord techniques?
I am adding an intercom to my plane (a Pietenpol), and want to re-do all of
the
wiring harnesses (not very many in a Pietenpol). I gave it a shot last
night,
but after my first go at it, I think there are probably some techniques for
knots that I don't know. Can anyone point me to a "how to" site, or give me
some tips on knot tying? How many knots per foot is typical? I think mine
will hold, but there is probably a better way to do it.
Thanks for any tips!
Steve Ruse
N6383J - Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
>
>In a message dated 1/23/06 12:03:50 AM Central Standard Time,
>nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
> > this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
> > some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
> > over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
> > on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
> > any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
> > this capability?
>
> >>>>>
>
>I used a couple of Altronix 6062 timer boards suggested by John P. Marzluf
>several years ago- they perform fine, but your solution is likely a more
>elegant
>way to accomplish this.
>
>Here's a message from archives:
>
>http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=17746345?KEYS=outback?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=84?SERIAL=0627595069?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
>and my implementation of them:
>
>http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5003
>
>They are the blue boards on the tray.
>
>Would like to see what ya got in mind, Bob- probably something about the size
>of a postage stamp, no doubt...
A little bigger than a postage stamp, but not much. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1.pdf
This is one of several products that will be supplied in this
package. The circuitry is processor based so it can be 'taught'
to do a variety of things. In the case of the AEC9011, we're
doing an LV/OV controller for the Chinese CJ6 trainer. Seems
folks are suffering some expensive OV events. The 9011 with
different software could be a flicker filter for low fuel
switches . . . and perhaps a variety of other tasks.
In a concentrated effort to increase commonality of hardware,
packaging, and fabrication techniques for a line of products,
we're going the software route as much as possible. This is
the only way I can see to keep costs down and still offer
a variety of capabilities in both stock and custom products when
the volumes are so low.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
Hi, Could someone please point me in the right direction on the parts needed
for the OV Module, My question is on the Potentiometer R2, the parts list
calls it out as
3292W501, DigiKey has no such number. I am not electronically qualified to
guess at what it is.
Thanks
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Waxed lacing cord techniques? |
Steve,
Good information...here is the link to Bob's comic book on lacing:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
And here is the link to AC 43.13-1B from Bob's web site:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/FAA
Just my opinion, but I believe this information is a little more current.
Pat Hatch
RV-6
RV-7
I should have done a little more searching before I posted. I found this
link
to a copy of a tutorial from the Bureau of Naval Weapons, circa 1962. Seems
like pretty good information, I figured someone else might be interested
too:
http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Dean -
We wired a lead from the dimmer buss to pin 23 of the MD200 (12 volt
system). Works fine to dim the instrument.
John
wrote:
>
>
> I have a VOR/ILS indicator made by Mid Content Instruments (MD200-306)
> and I
> am trying to figure out if it is lighted internally or if I need to
> supply
> some sort of lighting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
> float switches?
>
>Bob, I have a switch float in my header tank that I use to control the pump
>that feeds the header. (Other Dragonfly builders manually switch the pump
>on and off, watching a big red light, and install a huger overflow tube.)
>
>I was planning to install a 1 minute timer, so that when the float
>indicates a full tank, the pump switches off for 1 solid minute, before
>being allowed to come on again (if the float indicates it's time to run
>again). Basically a kind of debounce circuit. I think that can be done
>with a simple 555 circuit or even some of the off-the-shelf timer kits from
>QKits.
>
>Dave Morris
No doubt this is true. But one of the things I've noticed is that
the majority of OBAM aircraft builders are more interested in
turn-key solutions all packaged up with nice mounting bases and
d-sub connectors on the front. It also helps if they are small
and environmentally robust.
For individuals with a hanker'n to sling some solder and build
an enclosure to hold it, there are countless variations
on a theme that will do the task.
My goal is to craft a series of low cost packages that can
be taught to do a variety of tasks so that we don't re-invent
the whole wheel for each new task. A further goal is to offer
packages that are as flight-worthy as anything I would do
for a certified a/c customer.
If successful in this endeavor, the guy who is thinking about
ordering up a bag of parts and heating up the iron will be hard
pressed to show a return on investment (beyond the entertainment/
educational value) for rolling his own when versatile, low cost,
and robust solutions are becoming almost catalog items.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Hi, Could someone please point me in the right direction on the parts needed
>for the OV Module, My question is on the Potentiometer R2, the parts list
>calls it out as
>
>3292W501, DigiKey has no such number. I am not electronically qualified to
>guess at what it is.
I'm glad you posted this note. The search phrase to find it in Digikey
is 3192W-501. I'm pleased that this error was called to my attention
because it highlights another more serious error on my part. The 3292 series
pots are unnecessarily expensive (15.00/ea!) for this task. I'm going to
change the call-out to a 3296W-501 for $2.70 each in single lots.
Appreciate the heads-up on this!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>
> >
> >Hi, Could someone please point me in the right direction on the parts needed
> >for the OV Module, My question is on the Potentiometer R2, the parts list
> >calls it out as
> >
> >3292W501, DigiKey has no such number. I am not electronically qualified to
> >guess at what it is.
>
> I'm glad you posted this note. The search phrase to find it in Digikey
> is 3192W-501. I'm pleased that this error was called to my attention
> because it highlights another more serious error on my part. The 3292
> series
> pots are unnecessarily expensive (15.00/ea!) for this task. I'm going to
> change the call-out to a 3296W-501 for $2.70 each in single lots.
>
> Appreciate the heads-up on this!
The drawing has been fixed and Rev D posted at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_D.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> warning float switches? |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float |
switches?
Oh, I totally agree on that. In fact, if you whip one up, I'll probably
buy it too, because it saves me some time, which I find I don't have nearly
enough of.
Dave Morris
At 10:54 AM 1/23/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>
> > float switches?
> >
> >Bob, I have a switch float in my header tank that I use to control the pump
> >that feeds the header. (Other Dragonfly builders manually switch the pump
> >on and off, watching a big red light, and install a huger overflow tube.)
> >
> >I was planning to install a 1 minute timer, so that when the float
> >indicates a full tank, the pump switches off for 1 solid minute, before
> >being allowed to come on again (if the float indicates it's time to run
> >again). Basically a kind of debounce circuit. I think that can be done
> >with a simple 555 circuit or even some of the off-the-shelf timer kits from
> >QKits.
> >
> >Dave Morris
>
> No doubt this is true. But one of the things I've noticed is that
> the majority of OBAM aircraft builders are more interested in
> turn-key solutions all packaged up with nice mounting bases and
> d-sub connectors on the front. It also helps if they are small
> and environmentally robust.
>
> For individuals with a hanker'n to sling some solder and build
> an enclosure to hold it, there are countless variations
> on a theme that will do the task.
>
> My goal is to craft a series of low cost packages that can
> be taught to do a variety of tasks so that we don't re-invent
> the whole wheel for each new task. A further goal is to offer
> packages that are as flight-worthy as anything I would do
> for a certified a/c customer.
>
> If successful in this endeavor, the guy who is thinking about
> ordering up a bag of parts and heating up the iron will be hard
> pressed to show a return on investment (beyond the entertainment/
> educational value) for rolling his own when versatile, low cost,
> and robust solutions are becoming almost catalog items.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: EV200 Conducted emissions |
>>I'm not sure what kind of
>>interference, but I suspect conducted interference on the coil energizing
>>line spreading into other sensitive audio circuits.
>>....
>>
>>
>.... I'll see if I can take a quick peek at conducted
> emissions for this critter. If I can't find it, maybe the Tyco guys
> will sample me one.
>
> In any case, never met a noise I couldn't filter . . . but I have
> seen some filters that nobody wanted to put in their airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Hi Bob and all,
In the past few months, I believe I have run across some problems due to
the Tyco EV-200.
For unknown reasons, it seemed to inhibit my Low Voltage Warning Module.
You'll find the story in English at :
http://contrails.free.fr/elec_lvwm_en.php
Some may remember my postings on the subject during the last two years.
I found a workaround by changing the LVWM model. It seems some are
impervious to the EV-200, and some are not. The guys at Tyco never
answered my e-mails.
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
P.S. Please feel free to help me correct my English ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
Bob and other listers:
After a long wait, it appears that the newest and supposedly "final"
version of e-mags/p-mags are nearing shipment to a group of approximately
100 buyers, myself included. There are some updates to their web site
touting the some of the changes, with more to come I think - see
http://www.emagair.com/113.htm
Brad with the company tells me that the product will have provisions for
future communication, so that one could program the ignition for racing
versus a leisurely cruise, or perhaps for mogas instead of AV fuel. All
sounds good......
There is also a new manual available:
http://www.emagair.com/Manual%20L113v5.pdf
It has been my understanding that for past models, Bob's proposed Z-13
wiring for the product, (also revised elsewhere to include a maintenance
switch), was a little different than what the folks at e-mag electronic
ignitions spelled out. Not sure on the details of this, but I believe
Bob's wiring was intended to allow the typical ignition check during runup
(?). Anyway, I was hoping Bob and others might take a minute to review the
latest info in the provided links. Would love to hear any preliminary
comments, and especially with respect to anything you see that would
warrant a change from Z-13.
regards
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
> Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
> make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
> definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
> illuminated.
>
> I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
> this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
> some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
> over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
> on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
> any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
> this capability?>
>
> Bob . . .
Yes
Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> float switches? |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
>
>
>
> > Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
> > make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
> > definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
> > illuminated.
> >
> > I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
> > this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
> > some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
> > over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
> > on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
> > any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
> > this capability?>
> >
> > Bob . . .
Do I understand correctly that a LOW FUEL condition is detected
by a CLOSING switch? Is there any problem with having the flicker
filter pulling lamps to ground to illuminate them?
The way the hardware is currently configured, float switches will
pull an input to ground as the fuel level goes down. The present
control algorithm I'm considering is to ignore the "flickering
switch" until it has been closed for more than 50% of the last
minute. When this condition is reached, the output pin for that
channel latches low (pulls annunicator light to ground).
The light will go out when the fuel level switch has been open
continuously for some period of time . . . say one minute.
If this sounds like something you could use, I'll put it in the
hopper that holds my software manager's tasks . . .
Another question, what kind of switches are you using? Hall
effect sensors would be ideal, totally enclosed reed switches
would be second best.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: EV200 Conducted emissions |
Interesting! I couldn't find the EV-200 relay I thought was
laying loose in the junk box. I'll see if I can get them
to sample me one.
Bob . . .
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>In the past few months, I believe I have run across some problems due to
>the Tyco EV-200.
>For unknown reasons, it seemed to inhibit my Low Voltage Warning Module.
>You'll find the story in English at :
>
>http://contrails.free.fr/elec_lvwm_en.php
>
>Some may remember my postings on the subject during the last two years.
>I found a workaround by changing the LVWM model. It seems some are
>impervious to the EV-200, and some are not. The guys at Tyco never
>answered my e-mails.
>
>FWIW,
>Regards,
>Gilles Thesee
>Grenoble, France
>http://contrails.free.fr
>
>P.S. Please feel free to help me correct my English ;-)
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark R. Supinski" <mark.supinski(at)gmail.com> |
Can anyone tell me where to track down the Honeywell microswitch Bob calls
out in one of the wigwag drawings? I can't seem to find anyone who actually
stocks it.
Thanks,
Mark Supinski
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Voltage regulator |
Hello=20all,
I=20am=20looking=20for=20information=20on=20inexpensive=20external=20voltage=20regulator
(automotive?)=20that=20will=20work=20well=20in=20our=20ships.
=20Thanks,
David
Scanned=20by=20Sanmina-SCI=20eShield=20=20_____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
If you have a tip-up like me, mounting the ELT remote high on the panel
gives it excellent access for replacing the battery. Now, be sure to label the
ELT remote with the date the battery must be replaced.
Pete from Clearwater
RV-6, all electric panel, full IFR, 40 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Can anyone tell me where to track down the Honeywell microswitch Bob calls
>out in one of the wigwag drawings? I can't seem to find anyone who actually
>stocks it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark Supinski
It's a rarely used switch, expensive and probably not stocked many
places. Allied would order it for you:
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=642-0197&SEARCH=4tl1%2D10&ID=&DESC=4TL1%2D10
Do a Google search on 4tl1-10. A number of parts suppliers
claim to have them in stock.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Fisher <jeremyfisher(at)verizon.net> switches? |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List:"Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
Bob,
You asked about the requirement for a flicker free fuel low warning light.
Yes, I for one have been looking for just such a circuit. I am
installing an automatic transfer system from the wing tanks to the
header tank on a Lancair 360, and would like to include a warning light
that means what it says. Where can we find this circuit or circuit
diagram? Thanks
Jerry Fisher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap IIIc Install manual |
Richard,
I don't have a Skymap IIIC installation manual, but I did replace the battery in
my unit last year, after about 5 years of operation. I used Digikey part number
439-1015-ND:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?PName?Name=439-1015-ND&Site=US
Hopefully you can find an equivalent in the UK.
The battery needs to be soldered onto one of the circuit boards - not a problem
if you are handy with a soldering iron. Getting the thing apart & back together
again was a bit of a puzzle, but not too bad.
Regards,
Chris Good.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Garforth" <richard(at)hawk.flyer.co.uk>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Skymap IIIc Install manual
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:59:41 -0000
>
>
>
>
> I am trying to source a link to a maintenance/install manual for a
> Skymap IIIc so I can change the internal lithium battery. Can
> anyone help please ??
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ectric-List:"Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
I will have samples available in about 2 weeks.
Let me know if you want to be one of my testers.
Dan Beadle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Fisher
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:"Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning
float switches?
switches?
Bob,
You asked about the requirement for a flicker free fuel low warning
light.
Yes, I for one have been looking for just such a circuit. I am
installing an automatic transfer system from the wing tanks to the
header tank on a Lancair 360, and would like to include a warning light
that means what it says. Where can we find this circuit or circuit
diagram? Thanks
Jerry Fisher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hallsten" <KeithHallsten(at)quiknet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
Yes, it's been an item of discussion among Velocity pilots. We have a sump
tank to which both main tanks drain, in which is installed either a float
switch or one of the "no moving parts" optical switches (see
http://www.gemssensors.com/electrooptical.htm) . It causes the pulse to
race a bit when the light flickers!
Keith Hallsten
Subject: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float
switches?
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckollsr(at)cox.net
)
Date: Sun Jan 22 - 10:01 PM
>
Some months ago, someone was asking about a circuit to
make the float-switches in their airplane be a bit more
definitive as to when the low fuel warning light was
illuminated.
I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
this capability?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GRT/Lightspeed/Mags |
| From: | "Allan Aaron" <aaaron(at)tvp.com.au> |
Hi all
I have a GRT EIS 4000 and one lightspeed plasma III in my MustangII. I
was going to take the tach signal from the lightspeed but did some web
surfing and have come to the conclusion that it would be better to take
the signal from the P-lead since that way, it would be obvious if the
mag dies (no rpm signal) whereas if the lightspeed dies it will be
obvious because of the rpm drop. Is this the right approach? I don't
want to have to wire another switch in the panel.
Second, related question ... I'm using single shielded wire for the
p-lead. Core goes to the contact inside the ferrule (or whatever its
called). I've attached a pigtail to the shield and bolted that to one of
the 4 m/c screws that attached the HT leads. Is this the right
approach?
Thanks in advance
Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SMITHBKN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Switch Configuration |
Group,
I have an IO-360 with Slick Mags. I would like to know if I can use three
toggle switches to control start/operation.
1. Left Mag (Off-On)
2. Right Mag (Off-On)
3. Starter (Off-Momentary On) - This one will have a switch guard on it too.
Anything wrong with this setup?
Jeff
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Switch Configuration |
No, it's ok. I use a slight modification of that setup. I use double pole
switches for my mags such that the starter switch will only function if the
left mag is on and the right mag is off. This assumes that your impulse
coupler is on your left mag.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SMITHBKN(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch Configuration
Group,
I have an IO-360 with Slick Mags. I would like to know if I can use three
toggle switches to control start/operation.
1. Left Mag (Off-On)
2. Right Mag (Off-On)
3. Starter (Off-Momentary On) - This one will have a switch guard on it
too.
Anything wrong with this setup?
Jeff
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch Configuration |
Jeff,
That is the set-up I used in my Long-EZ-except I have one electronic
ignition and one mag. I really like the set-up, but took the switch guard
off as they looked too out-of-scale for the panel. I used Eaton switches
MS35058-22/8801K22 for the mag/EI and MS35058-30/881K17 for the start
switch. The panel layout has them in a horizontal row with, from the left,
the Lmag, EI, start, alt, bat. These are located separate from the rest of
the switches. I used all 88 series switches to keep the look uniform. If
you would like a pic, let me know.
Thanks,
Sam Chambers
Glasgow,KY
Long-EZ N775AM
Co-Host, Rough River Fly-In
----- Original Message -----
From: <SMITHBKN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:57 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch Configuration
>
> Group,
>
> I have an IO-360 with Slick Mags. I would like to know if I can use
> three
> toggle switches to control start/operation.
>
> 1. Left Mag (Off-On)
> 2. Right Mag (Off-On)
> 3. Starter (Off-Momentary On) - This one will have a switch guard on it
> too.
>
> Anything wrong with this setup?
>
> Jeff
> RV-7A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage regulator |
You want to check the archives. a.. Archive Search Engine:
http://www.matronics.com/search
Change the list name to aeroelectric and enter external voltage regulator,
or external VR, or whatever into the search. There is tons of info there.
Now you know how to use the archives. Welcome to the system.
Indiana Larry
> <David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com>
>
> Hello=20all,
>
>
> I=20am=20looking=20for=20information=20on=20inexpensive=20external=20voltage=20regulator
> (automotive?)=20that=20will=20work=20well=20in=20our=20ships.
>
>
> =20Thanks,
>
>
> David
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Remote ELT Battery Change Timing |
Hi Guys-
RE:
>In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an inspector)
was not
>aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to operate.
>No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote
>on your panel and have no way to access the battery.
>So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
>insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
>friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
>hadn't pointed it out.
>Vern Little
My remote head is in an extremely convenient spot for utility / ergonomics,
and a miserable / impossible spot for maintenance. I ended up using
nutserts in the panel. I was afraid that the nutserts would make for an
unsightly installation since their slightly proud face will leave a tiny
gap between the control head flange and the panel, but with them both being
black the only way you can notice is if you back light the installation.
The purists among us might be motivated to install a shim / gasket under
the flange...
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Remote Gotcha |
Ameri-King requires nether.....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
JFTR...
Many Artex remote switch units DO NOT require a battery, but are instead
hardwired to ship's power.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
rv-9a-online
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to
operate.
No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
your panel and have no way to access the battery.
So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
hadn't pointed it out.
Vern Little
--
1/16/2006
--
1/16/2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark R. Supinski" <mark.supinski(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Remote Gotcha |
Sorry, Mike -- but if you are referring to the Ameri-King AK-450 you are in
for a rude surprise. Here is a quote from their published feature list:
- Mini Remote Control Panel with independent Battery built-in,
therefore Interface with Aircraft Electrical Power is not required.
Having just installed a 450 last weekend, I can assure you that the AK-450
does in fact have a battery in the remote unit.
Mark Supinski
On 1/24/06, Mike wrote:
>
>
> Ameri-King requires nether.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Denton
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:01 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
>
>
>
> JFTR...
>
> Many Artex remote switch units DO NOT require a battery, but are instead
> hardwired to ship's power.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> rv-9a-online
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:49 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT Remote Gotcha
>
>
>
>
> In the last two weeks, every builder I talked to (including an
> inspector) was not aware that most ELT remotes require a battery to
> operate.
>
> No big deal, you think? Well, it is if you've mounted the ELT remote on
> your panel and have no way to access the battery.
>
> So, be forewarned... ensure you can easily remove the ELT remote to
> insert/change the battery. I can access mine by removing my GPS, but a
> friend of mine building a SeaStar would have had a lot of trouble if I
> hadn't pointed it out.
>
> Vern Little
>
>
> --
> 1/16/2006
>
>
> --
> 1/16/2006
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org> |
Dan,
I've used Qcad and found a program called 'dwg2dxf' that will convert
the DWG to DXF. Works great. You can find it at :
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=30996
There are multiple items you can download there, but the second entry
is entitled "DWG to DXF" and has a "dwg2dxf-2.1.tar.gz" that you can
pull down. Get it, unbundle it, build it, and start converting.
-- Dwight
On Sat Jan 21 22:04:42 2006, Dan O'Brien wrote :
>Has anyone found a CAD program that works with Linux? I still have a
>Windows boot on which I can use Intellicad quite effectively, but I dual
>boot Linux and would like a Linux CAD program capable of reading dwg files.
>There is one that does dxf files (it's called QCad), but I don't know of a
>reasonably priced Linux variant that handles dwg files. Anyone know of one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GRT/Lightspeed/Mags |
>
>Hi all
>I have a GRT EIS 4000 and one lightspeed plasma III in my MustangII. I
>was going to take the tach signal from the lightspeed but did some web
>surfing and have come to the conclusion that it would be better to take
>the signal from the P-lead since that way, it would be obvious if the
>mag dies (no rpm signal) whereas if the lightspeed dies it will be
>obvious because of the rpm drop. Is this the right approach? I don't
>want to have to wire another switch in the panel.
It doesn't make much difference. RPM displays have almost
zero significance in effecting a no-sweat termination of
flight. Do whatever is easiest and lowest risk for noise
propagation. I'd tie it to the electronic tach output from
the electronic ignition.
>Second, related question ... I'm using single shielded wire for the
>p-lead. Core goes to the contact inside the ferrule (or whatever its
>called). I've attached a pigtail to the shield and bolted that to one of
>the 4 m/c screws that attached the HT leads. Is this the right
>approach?
Yes.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> float switches? |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List:"Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
> switches?
>
>Bob,
>
>You asked about the requirement for a flicker free fuel low warning light.
>
>Yes, I for one have been looking for just such a circuit. I am
>installing an automatic transfer system from the wing tanks to the
>header tank on a Lancair 360, and would like to include a warning light
>that means what it says. Where can we find this circuit or circuit
>diagram? Thanks
I don't have a circuit to publish . . . there have been numerous
approaches to delayed annunciation of a uncertain output from
many level sensing switches at the operation level.
While working another task . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1.pdf
. . . it just came to mind that without changing any
of the hardware, this product could be re-programmed
to do the flicker-filtering task but with more agility
than commercial off the shelf timer options.
We haven't decided to tackle that task yet. We're
mulling over a whole new approach to low liquid
level sensing combined with perhaps some programmable
fuel management options. I was just putting a dipstick
into the marketplace on the rudimentary flicker-filter
as a stand-alone item.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
>
>Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
>K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
>Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_JX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_KX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/GMP.html
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | 4 Conductor shielded cable |
Hi all,
I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website but
I couldn't see anything.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 4 Conductor shielded cable |
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
You should be able to order the 4 conductor shielded cable from Vision
Microsystems. The wires are 22 awg. They supply it with their engine
management systems, so I know that they have it. The only question is
whether they will sell it as a separate item. Here is a contact web
site. http://www.visionmicrosystems.com/contacts/contacts_index.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 4 Conductor shielded cable
Hi all,
I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website
but
I couldn't see anything.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 Conductor shielded cable |
Steinair (www.steinair.com) has some. SA-444
D
------------
Paul McAllister wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
> conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website but
> I couldn't see anything.
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 Conductor shielded cable |
Hi Paul
try SteinAir, near bottom of page
*SA-444 **MIL-27500 Tefzel * /*AWG22 - 4* /Conductor Shielded Cable
http://www.steinair.com/wire.htm
Gert
Paul McAllister wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
>conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website but
>I couldn't see anything.
>
>Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 Conductor shielded cable |
I think I got some from wiremasters.....
How much do you need? I think I have some leftovers......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 4 Conductor shielded cable
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
> conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website
> but
> I couldn't see anything.
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
Mcmaster carr also carries these. Page 527 of the current website or search
for thermocouple wire. I didn't check to see who's prices were cheaper.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
-->
>--> <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
>
>Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
>K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
>Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_JX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_KX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/GMP.html
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
McMaster Carr
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tvedte" <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
> <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
>
> Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
> K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
> Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott428(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Pitot Heat Indicator Color? |
I seem to remember a post quite a while back (years?) that suggested that
"Pitot Heat" (switch or annunciator) color was covered by an FAR. What
color was specified and where is the reg?
Thanks-
Scott Fifield
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4 Conductor shielded cable |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Paul -
Try www.steinair.com
If you need a fair amount of it and you have need of different sizes and
it adds up to their $50 minimum order, Wiremasters is by far the best
price for wire. Call 800 635-5342 and ask for Deb Sullivan.
Cheers,
John
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a source of 4 conductor shielded cable. The inner
> conductors need to be around 22g. I have trolled through B&C's website
> but
> I couldn't see anything.
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
For transport category aircraft....
Sec. 25.1326 - Pitot heat indication systems.
If a flight instrument pitot heating system is installed, an indication system
must be provided to indicate to the flight crew when that pitot heating system
is not operating. The indication system must comply with the following requirements:
(a) The indication provided must incorporate an amber light that is in clear view
of a flight crewmember.
(b) The indication provided must be designed to alert the flight crew if either
of the following conditions exist:
(1) The pitot heating system is switched "off".
(2) The pitot heating system is switched "on" and any pitot tube heating element
is inoperative.
[Amdt. 25-43, 43 FR 10339, Mar. 13, 1978]
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6610#6610
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Peak current handling of S604 gold "DB" style contacts |
Bob, or anyone,
I'm wiring my engine compartment to the instrument panel with a CPC2 series
Amp connector to allow the panel to be removed from the plane and assembled
on the bench. One of the wire pairs from the engine compartment is the 5 amp
breaker switch to the field terminal on the BC20 alternator. I recall that Bob
has suggested a mean current draw of 4 amps max for the gold plated 0.040 DB
style pins and sockets, which have the part number S604 on the B&C site. Could
I use a pair of these to carry the current through the field circuit breaker
and switch? If the overvoltage crowbar on the LR-3 regulator shorts the field,
there will be a momentary current draw of much larger magnitude. The data
sheets for this series of breakers at 5 amps suggests 50 milliohms internal resistance,
and if I use 12 feet of 20 gauge wire, this will add 120 milliohms
to the circuit. I don't know the internal resistance of the crowbar. If set
to zero, this leaves 170 milliohms plus the contact resistance of two series pairs
of the pin and socket. I have not measured this resistance, but the Tyco
(Amp) site suggests 10 millohm maximum. After doing some reading, I find that
the CPC series with "size 20" pins and sockets is rated at a single circuit
of 8.34 amps continuous with a 30 degree C rise in temperature. The breaker will
open in 0.2 to 0.6 sec at 1000% load.
When the crowbar fires, the instantaneous current before heating is 16 volts/0.18
ohms, or 89 amps. The bimetal thermal breaker should raise its electrical
resistance much faster than the wiring because it is enclosed. I'm not sure.
The convenience of routing all wires through this one or two CPC connector set
is attractive, but I could run the wires through a grommet in the panel, directly
to the breaker. It is harder to take apart this way, but at this point,
I have convinced myself that the direct route to the Fast-On tab on the breaker
is the best way. Having spent several hours researching this, I thought I'd
share it with the list.
The two Tyco PDF documents of interest are: instruction sheet 408-7593 and 108-10024-3
on the web site.
Jim Foerster, J400, still wiring...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RE: MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator |
Thanks for all the info on the MD200-306 VOR/ILS Indicator lighting. I got a
little confused looking at the pinouts on the connector and there wasn't any
elaboration about it in the rest of the manual. But I figured the answers
could be found on the list. Where would I be without it!
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics and essential Buss? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Working on schametic for Europa Rotax 914.
2 Questions:
1) What is the benefit to installing a Avionics Buss master switch when
all the Avionics have a switch of their own?
2) What does and does not belongs on a Essential Buss?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax 914, run fuel pump with no battery? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Studying Rotax 914 schematic, the main fuel pump is wired to the B+ of the
regulator.
It appears if you open the alternator output switch, they expect the
alternator could run the fuel pump with no battery in circuit???
They do have a 22000mF capacitor from B+ to ground.
OK another question comes to mind. On Bobs Z-8 which uses a SD-8, if the
output relay was opened (not connected to battery or Buss) and you
connected a 3 amp fuel pump motor to the red output of the regulator would
it run and be happy for an emergency?
Called for on Z-8 is a 20000 to 50000mF capacitor connected to red output.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr> |
| Subject: | Alternator output wire size |
Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to educate
myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head start but
I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted battery.
Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise vs wire
size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise. Since I shall
be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since the wire
will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire. If I put
a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or # 6?
Thanks,
Mich=E8le
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr> |
| Subject: | "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float switches? |
You might want to look at the AE fuel guardian at www.aircraftextras.com.
I installed one in each tank of my RV8 - not flying yet.
Michele
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: lundi 23 janvier 2006 15:33
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Flicker Filter" for low fuel warning float
switches?
In a message dated 1/23/06 12:03:50 AM Central Standard Time,
nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
> I have hardware in hand that can be programmed to accomplish
> this task. We can watch for switch behavior to exhibit
> some characteristic like "switch closed more than 50% of the time
> over a 1 minute period" before the warning light is latched
> on. Given the flexibility of software, we can probably address
> any other low-fuel trip protocol. Does anyone have a need for
> this capability?
>>>>>
I used a couple of Altronix 6062 timer boards suggested by John P. Marzluf
several years ago- they perform fine, but your solution is likely a more
elegant
way to accomplish this.
Here's a message from archives:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=17746345?KEYS=out
back?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=84?SERIAL=0627595069?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
and my implementation of them:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5003
They are the blue boards on the tray.
Would like to see what ya got in mind, Bob- probably something about the
size
of a postage stamp, no doubt...
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
I am looking for 3 conductor AWG18 cable to hook up the strobe lights.
Steinair does not have it =96 does any one have a thought on a source for
this?
Thanks,
Michele
RV8 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Wheelen Install kit.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michle
Delsol
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 3 conductor AWG18 cable
I am looking for 3 conductor AWG18 cable to hook up the strobe lights.
Steinair does not have it =96 does any one have a thought on a source for
this?
Thanks,
Michele
RV8 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics and essential Buss? |
>
>Working on schametic for Europa Rotax 914.
>
>2 Questions:
>
>1) What is the benefit to installing a Avionics Buss master switch when
>all the Avionics have a switch of their own?
Good question. A better question yet is "What benefit
is the avionics master switch at all beyond some
convenience factor?" The "need" for an avionics
master was ill-conceived and the first place and much
fertilized with myth and reverence for tradition since.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/avmaster.pdf
>2) What does and does not belongs on a Essential Buss?
ENDURANCE bus is the better term. See chapter 17
of the 'Connection.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <highflight1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics and essential Buss? |
2 Questions:
>
> 1) What is the benefit to installing a Avionics Buss master switch when
> all the Avionics have a switch of their own?
None. An avionics master switch is nothing more than a place to have a
single point of failure that would wipe out ALL your avionics at one time.
2) What does and does not belongs on a Essential Buss?
All you want on the essential buss are those things that allow you to get to
a place to land safely. How much that ends up being depends a lot on how you
design your electrical system and what you feel you NEED to keep working.
No matter how you design your panel, you NEED to have a voltage alarm so you
know immediatly when/if your alternator drops out so you can change your
flight plan if need be.
Vern W.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics and essential Buss? |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics and essential Buss?
>
> Working on schametic for Europa Rotax 914.
>
> 2 Questions:
>
> 1) What is the benefit to installing a Avionics Buss master switch when
> all the Avionics have a switch of their own?
With the separate switch the original settings, I.E., volume on the
radio and/or intercom can be left at the last setting thereby not needing to
fiddle with them for each new flight. I have turned the radio volume too
low at start up a couple of times and thought I was having a radio failure
before I found I had just failed to turn up the volume up sufficiently.
>
> 2) What does and does not belongs on a Essential Buss?
Usually the radios and other devices needed to fly the plane safely
are powered through the e-bus so to have an alternate path. Put the
avionics switch in the wire path between the main bus feed and the rectified
diode that feeds the e-bus. Devices like an engine monitor are not
essential and should not be put on the e-bus. Think about what is important
if your alternator quits working and what you absolutely need to finish your
flight for the type of flying you plan to do as the answer varies depending
on type of flying. Hope this helps.
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up 79 hours
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color? |
Looking at my big old Cessna 182 panel poster from Sporty's...
The pitot heat switch is at the end of the bank of light switches, and is
exactly the same style (chrome toggle) and size. There doesn't appear to be
any sort of on/off indicator.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color?
For transport category aircraft....
Sec. 25.1326 - Pitot heat indication systems.
If a flight instrument pitot heating system is installed, an indication
system must be provided to indicate to the flight crew when that pitot
heating system is not operating. The indication system must comply with the
following requirements:
(a) The indication provided must incorporate an amber light that is in clear
view of a flight crewmember.
(b) The indication provided must be designed to alert the flight crew if
either of the following conditions exist:
(1) The pitot heating system is switched "off".
(2) The pitot heating system is switched "on" and any pitot tube heating
element is inoperative.
[Amdt. 25-43, 43 FR 10339, Mar. 13, 1978]
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6610#6610
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> style contacts |
| Subject: | Re: Peak current handling of S604 gold "DB" style |
contacts
>
>
>Bob, or anyone,
> I'm wiring my engine compartment to the instrument panel with a CPC2
> series Amp connector to allow the panel to be removed from the plane and
> assembled on the bench. One of the wire pairs from the engine
> compartment is the 5 amp breaker switch to the field terminal on the BC20
> alternator. I recall that Bob has suggested a mean current draw of 4
> amps max for the gold plated 0.040 DB style pins and sockets, which have
> the part number S604 on the B&C site. Could I use a pair of these to
> carry the current through the field circuit breaker and switch? If the
> overvoltage crowbar on the LR-3 regulator shorts the field, there will be
> a momentary current draw of much larger magnitude. The data sheets for
> this series of breakers at 5 amps suggests 50 milliohms internal
> resistance, and if I use 12 feet of 20 gauge wire, this will add 120
> milliohms to the circuit. I don't know the internal resistance of the
> crowbar. If set to zero, this leaves 170 milliohms plus the contact !
> resistance of two series pairs of the pin and socket. I have not
> measured this resistance, but the Tyco (Amp) site suggests 10 millohm
> maximum. After doing some reading, I find that the CPC series with "size
> 20" pins and sockets is rated at a single circuit of 8.34 amps continuous
> with a 30 degree C rise in temperature. The breaker will open in 0.2 to
> 0.6 sec at 1000% load.
>
>When the crowbar fires, the instantaneous current before heating is 16
>volts/0.18 ohms, or 89 amps. The bimetal thermal breaker should raise its
>electrical resistance much faster than the wiring because it is
>enclosed. I'm not sure. The convenience of routing all wires through
>this one or two CPC connector set is attractive, but I could run the wires
>through a grommet in the panel, directly to the breaker. It is harder to
>take apart this way, but at this point, I have convinced myself that the
>direct route to the Fast-On tab on the breaker is the best way. Having
>spent several hours researching this, I thought I'd share it with the list.
>
>The two Tyco PDF documents of interest are: instruction sheet 408-7593 and
>108-10024-3 on the web site.
The first thought I had was to wonder what considerations
drive the need to put a connector in this line (or any others
that will share the connector). The most common reasons are
a matter of convenience. An oft cited rationale is, "to be
able to unplug an engine harness as the engine is lifted out
of the airframe." Or, "I want to do all the wiring inside the
cockpit first and save all the wiring forward of the firewall
until later."
Consider that every connector adds three new joints to every
wire along with the (1) attendant concerns you've correctly identified
above, (2) increased parts count [reduced reliability], (3) increased
$time$ to procure, install and maintain.
We at RAC, (like the automotive industry) break major wire bundles down
for assembly through pressure bulkheads, at airframe/avionics interfaces,
etc, etc. These decisions are not made lightly. The #1 goal is to
NOT install any new hardware except where there is a return on investment
for costs of assembly.
A builder sent me this picture some years ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/term_strip_not.jpg
. . . very neatly installed, all wires labeled, high degree of
craftsmanship. When I asked him how much this installation saved him
in cost of ownership ($time$ to procure, install and maintain). He
didn't have a very convincing answer. Even when you might consider
a connector in an engine harness, keep in mind that the connector
has to live in worst environment that the airplane can throw at it.
The average engine has less than a dozen wires attached to it and
probably get lifted out of the airplane perhaps once every ten years.
I'll suggest that connector "convenience" is more likely to morph into
"maintenance nuisance"/
Another question that comes to mind is your choice of connectors is
this is going to mount on the firewall. Check the archives for threads
on firewall integrity and check out:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
Finally, and specific to your question I'll suggest that the wire
between bus and regulator be as contiguous as practical and avoid
any unnecessary breaks in connectors. You're correct in your
deliberations that current flowing during the crowbar event is
on the order of 50-150 amps and while average current in this
line is 1 to 3 amps, the occasional but urgent requirement to
operate reliably as the design goals intended cannot be made
better by running the wire through any connectors whether rated
for this peak-event or not.
Finally, there ARE ways to practically parallel pins in small
connectors for improvements in current carrying capability. I've
done this in several projects, one of which has gone through
the full range of environmental and operational testing to qualify
for flight on this bird:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/1st_Operational_GQM.jpg
To drive costs out of a throwaway power distribution assembly
pictured at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/power_dist.jpg
I used D-subs to carry as much as 20A continuous at 70C.
This was accomplished by first de-rating a pin to 3A and
then "ballasting" the paralleled pins with lengths of
wire in one or both sides of the connector junction as
shown in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/D-Sub_Power_Dist_1.jpg
By adding approximately 16 milliohms of resistance in series
with each pin in the form of 22AWG wire, the pin-to-pin variability
of contact resistance is washed out in the totals and the
pin paralleled very nicely and survived elevated temperature
testing to qualify for the task.
In the case cited, I replaced a $10K+ relay based assembly in
a previous target design (used $super$ connectors) with this
all solid state version with 1/10th the weight volume and
cost.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color? |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
A few items of interest:
a) Cessna 182 was a grandfathered Type Certificate, and so was exempted from new
FAA guidance on Pitot Heat annunciation.
b) The FAA had interpreted that Part 23 aircraft also required a Pitot Heat indication,
and this can be found on newer designs. For instance, check out a Diamond
DA40. Unfortunately, the rule was interpreted in a way that requires a
"Pitot Off" indicator that is in your face ALL THE TIME unless its turned on.
c) That being said, there is new guidance that is just out or is coming out from
the Small Airplane Directorate that this indication is excessive and not necessary.
I don't know if they were going to delete the requirement, or change
it in a way that makes more sense. (like sensing OAT, too)
d) Of course, for Experimental you don't have to follow that guidance if you don't
want.
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bill Denton
Sent: Wed 1/25/2006 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color?
Looking at my big old Cessna 182 panel poster from Sporty's...
The pitot heat switch is at the end of the bank of light switches, and is
exactly the same style (chrome toggle) and size. There doesn't appear to be
any sort of on/off indicator.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Heat Indicator Color?
For transport category aircraft....
Sec. 25.1326 - Pitot heat indication systems.
If a flight instrument pitot heating system is installed, an indication
system must be provided to indicate to the flight crew when that pitot
heating system is not operating. The indication system must comply with the
following requirements:
(a) The indication provided must incorporate an amber light that is in clear
view of a flight crewmember.
(b) The indication provided must be designed to alert the flight crew if
either of the following conditions exist:
(1) The pitot heating system is switched "off".
(2) The pitot heating system is switched "on" and any pitot tube heating
element is inoperative.
[Amdt. 25-43, 43 FR 10339, Mar. 13, 1978]
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D6610#6610
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator output wire size |
>
>
>Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to educate
>myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
>stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head start but
>I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
>Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted battery.
>
>
>Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise vs wire
>size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise. Since I
>shall
>be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since the wire
>will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire. If
>I put
>a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
>
>
>My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or # 6?
If you're worried, go #6. The operating temperature limit on Tefzel
is 150C. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-W-22759/22759slash16.pdf
The time you're alternator will spend at 40+ amps is measured in
>Thanks,
>
>Mich=E8le
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator output wire size |
>
>
>Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to educate
>myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
>stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head start but
>I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
>Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted battery.
>
>
>Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise vs wire
>size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise. Since I
>shall
>be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since the wire
>will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire. If
>I put
>a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
>
>
>My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or # 6?
If you're worried, go #6. The operating temperature limit on Tefzel
is 150C. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-W-22759/22759slash16.pdf
The time your alternator will spend at 40+ amps is measured in
minutes per flight cycle and usually happens in the first few minutes
of flight while recharging the battery. What's the hottest environment
that the wire will traverse? For a 35C rise, you can operate in a
150-35 or 115C environment indefinitely. For the vast majority of
the time, your alternator will be running much less load.
I don't think the #8 wire selection is a really big concern.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator output wire size |
Hi Mich
I used 8awg for that. In practice the 40 amps is seldom there for very
long although I guess it could be considered continuous in some
circumstances as you have observed. I've noticed that several folks have
used 8awg with even larger alternators although I would not.
I think you've got html turned on in your mail program which puts those
numbers in your posts here (at least on my computer) and makes them
somewhat difficult to read.
Ken
Michle Delsol wrote:
>
>Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to educate
>myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
>stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head start but
>I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
>Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted battery.
>
>
>Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise vs wire
>size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise. Since I shall
>be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since the wire
>will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire. If I put
>a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
>
>
>My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or # 6?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mich=E8le
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
| Subject: | AP signal source annunciator LEDs |
Listers,
Does anyone know if there is a regulatory requirement or guidance re. auto
pilot signall source annunciator LEDs on production aircraft? We have an AP
wired to switch between 2 Navs and a LORAN/GPS and would like to add 3 LEDs
to indicate which source supplies the left/right signal. Planning to use 3
red panel-mount LED's with dimming switch for the purpose.
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | AP signal source annunciator LEDs |
There's some nifty self annunciating push button switches out there, but
they're expensive. I see no reason why your low tech solution won't work.
There are annunciating requirements for the certified world but not for us.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rd2(at)evenlink.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AP signal source annunciator LEDs
Listers,
Does anyone know if there is a regulatory requirement or guidance re. auto
pilot signall source annunciator LEDs on production aircraft? We have an AP
wired to switch between 2 Navs and a LORAN/GPS and would like to add 3 LEDs
to indicate which source supplies the left/right signal. Planning to use 3
red panel-mount LED's with dimming switch for the purpose.
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AP signal source annunciator LEDs |
>
>Listers,
>
>Does anyone know if there is a regulatory requirement or guidance re. auto
>pilot signall source annunciator LEDs on production aircraft? We have an AP
>wired to switch between 2 Navs and a LORAN/GPS and would like to add 3 LEDs
>to indicate which source supplies the left/right signal. Planning to use 3
>red panel-mount LED's with dimming switch for the purpose.
Don't know about "regulatory" . . . in the TC world and on
Part 23 aircraft, the nav source switch was generally installed
on the flight instrument panel or just below it so that switch
position was the "annunciation" for source of current nav data.
On our $bizjet$ the EFIS systems tells all things all the time.
If you're talking about an OBAM aircraft, do what ever makes
sense for you. For a TC aircraft, avoid red/green/amber which
have traditionally been reserved for warning/on/caution
annunciations. Blue, white, yellow, cyan, magenta would be
better selections for "informative" annunciations.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics and essential Buss? |
Hi Ron -
2) What does and does not belongs on a Essential Buss?
>
Thus far, our 914 "essential" bus includes one fuel pump and the TCU. The
latter might get removed because losing the TCU *shouldn't* trash the engine
(per the manual)... but I haven't warmed up to that thought, yet.
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
>
>Wonder why they don't list J-type male connectors?
>
>-Bill B
Go to the Part Number Builder box further down and
it will let you order a GMP-J-M for $2.50.
Bob . . .
> >
> >Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
> >K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
> >Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_JX_WIRE.html
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_KX_WIRE.html
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/GMP.html
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator output wire size |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
The SIGNIFICANT current from the battery to the front end of the
aircraft is the starting load - this is normally 5-10x the alternator
sizing.
Once the aircraft has started, most of that 40A alternator output is
going to the main buss and all of the loads (lights, radios, etc.).
Recharging the battery is only one of the loads. If you look at an
aircraft with a load meter, a discharged battery only gets about 1/3 of
the total alternator output. Once the battery is re-charged from the
startup procedure, there is very little current flowing back there.
So, I wouldn't worry so much about steady state currents to the rear of
the aircraft. I would worry more about the starting currents over that
wire and the voltage drop. If you pull 80Amps during startup (cold
engine), there can be significant voltage drop through the wiring,
causing less voltage to the starter for slower RPM and harder starts....
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator output wire size
Hi Mich
I used 8awg for that. In practice the 40 amps is seldom there for very
long although I guess it could be considered continuous in some
circumstances as you have observed. I've noticed that several folks have
used 8awg with even larger alternators although I would not.
I think you've got html turned on in your mail program which puts those
numbers in your posts here (at least on my computer) and makes them
somewhat difficult to read.
Ken
Michle Delsol wrote:
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?=
>
>Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to
educate
>myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
>stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head
start but
>I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
>Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted
battery.
>
>
>Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise
vs wire
>size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise.
Since I shall
>be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since
the wire
>will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire.
If I put
>a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
>
>
>My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or #
6?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mich=E8le
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | GPS Ground plane |
I am getting ready to install a "Trimble" GPS antenna in my Lancair IVP. I
am making a shelf for it in the fiberglass portion of the aft fuselage. In
looking at the "Connection" Bob did not cover GPS Antennas, they were to be
added later. What size, if any, ground plane does the GPS antenna take?
Giff Marr
Lancair IV-P/20B 45%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS Ground plane |
>
>
>I am getting ready to install a "Trimble" GPS antenna in my Lancair IVP. I
>am making a shelf for it in the fiberglass portion of the aft fuselage. In
>looking at the "Connection" Bob did not cover GPS Antennas, they were to be
>added later. What size, if any, ground plane does the GPS antenna take?
>
>Giff Marr
>Lancair IV-P/20B 45%
The flat gps antennas don't need a "tuned" ground plane. Make it as
large as practical but 6" square would probably be big enough.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Peak current handling of S604 gold "DB" style |
Bob,
Another question that comes to mind is your choice of connectors is
this is going to mount on the firewall.
Actually, having read your helpful material on firewall integrity, I plan to run
the plug end of the wiring harness through a hole in the firewall suitably protected
against fire and run the plug to a bulkhead style receptacle on the bottom
of the instrument panel. This eliminates one set of connectors on the firewall
itself, and moves the connector to the protected confines of the cabin.
Finally, there ARE ways to practically parallel pins in small
connectors for improvements in current carrying capability.
I considered the parallel D sub approach-again learned on this list-for the field
breaker, but the peak and unknown current draw made this approach less practical.
There are CPC connectors with big silver plated contacts rated for large
amps that make more sense than paralleling 20 D subs in a 28 pin housing.
The large wire 3 conductor unit is about the same size as the 28 conductor D sub
pin unit.
A builder sent me this picture some years ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/term_strip_not.jpg
. . . very neatly installed, all wires labeled, high degree of
craftsmanship. When I asked him how much this installation saved him
in cost of ownership ($time$ to procure, install and maintain). He
didn't have a very convincing answer.
I may not have a very convincing answer either. We all build guided by our personalities,
and I don't want my plane to look like a factory wired Cessna rats
nest that I read about on this list. Perhaps I'm being compulsive.
I have a lot more than 10 wires coming from the engine compartment. There are
6 channels of CHT, 2 channels of EGT, solenoid control for the carb heat, two
current shunts from the two alternators, the isolated dual + and - 15 volt supply
to the thermocouple amplifier board--I'm not sure that my 28 pin connector
will be enough, and I may need a second smaller connector.
One more reason for this approach: my building partner has the plane and it is
a 40 minute drive to get to this plane. I can wire the electrical for the engine
compartment at home, because all of the components are in a 3x12x12 inch box
with a harness coming out of it. The panel can also be taken to my home for
wiring away from the plane. Whether this will be a good solution, only time
will tell.
I really appreciate your help over the years, and have learned a lot from this
list and especially you.
Jim Foerster, J400, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
I didn't see that; thanks for pointing it out.
Don't I recall from somewhere that it's okay to use, say, crimp-on molex pins on
the appropriate extension wires, as long as a certain symmetry of junctions
in the cable run is maintained? I think that's how i extended by GRT probe wires
ages ago, and it _seems_ to work okay.
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
>
>Wonder why they don't list J-type male connectors?
>
>-Bill B
Go to the Part Number Builder box further down and
it will let you order a GMP-J-M for $2.50.
Bob . . .
> >
> >Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
> >K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
> >Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_JX_WIRE.html
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_KX_WIRE.html
>
>http://www.omega.com/pptst/GMP.html
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
I know many folks have mounted their GPS antennas under fiberglass components like
cowls. Most have reported no problem with reception.
Has anyone with this configuration had a problem they could identify? Any reasons
not to go this route? Any other considerations other than insuring unrestricted
view of the sky and no metallic materials in the fiberglass.?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Also, *do not* put it under carbon fiber... Might as well be aluminum as
it's conductive and is a great faraday shield :)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sipp
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antennas
-->
I know many folks have mounted their GPS antennas under fiberglass
components like cowls. Most have reported no problem with reception.
Has anyone with this configuration had a problem they could identify? Any
reasons not to go this route? Any other considerations other than insuring
unrestricted view of the sky and no metallic materials in the fiberglass.?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr> |
| Subject: | Alternator output wire size |
Thanks Ken and Bob - 8awg wins hands down - and I'll turn off HTML.
Michele
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: mercredi 25 janvier 2006 14:51
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator output wire size
Hi Mich
I used 8awg for that. In practice the 40 amps is seldom there for very
long although I guess it could be considered continuous in some
circumstances as you have observed. I've noticed that several folks have
used 8awg with even larger alternators although I would not.
I think you've got html turned on in your mail program which puts those
numbers in your posts here (at least on my computer) and makes them
somewhat difficult to read.
Ken
Michle Delsol wrote:
>
>Hi all =96 I have been following this list for some time mainly to educate
>myself as to putting together the electrics on my RV8, now at the canoe
>stage. I purchased Van=92s harness, figured it would give me a head start
but
>I find that I question some of the choices made, namely the size of the
>Alternator output. Am planning on a 40amp alternator, aft mounted battery.
>
>
>Vans has chosen #8 awg =96 if I look at BK=92s figure 8-4 on temp rise vs
wire
>size, I read 21 amps for a 10=B0C rise and 40amps for 35=B0C rise. Since I
shall
>be running a 40amp alternator I figure that 35=B0C is too much since the
wire
>will be bundled with others =96 I=92d be better of with a larger wire. If I
put
>a #6, temperature rise at 40amps is somewhere around 20=B0C.
>
>
>My question to you guys who have been there : should I go for #8 or # 6?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mich=E8le
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Michele asked:
I am looking for 3 conductor AWG18 cable to hook up the strobe lights.
Steinair does not have it Does any one have a thought on a source for
this?
This was discussed one or two years ago. I don't recall the numbers, but the losses
from using 22 gauge wire, which is much lighter, and available from Steinair,
are quite acceptable. I'm using 22 gauge three conductor shield wire for
my Whelen strobes, and expect no problem. I was very impressed at the weight
of the shielded 18 gauge supplied by Whelen. The 22 gauge, needing a smaller
shield, is much lighter. Search the archive if you truly believe that 18 gauge
is needed.
Jim Foerster, jmfpublic(at)comcast_dot_net Jabiru J400 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
I should have been a little more specific - my question related to feeding
the power supply and synching three strobes together. Since the current is
not steady I prefer to shield the feed lines - 4 amps on 18awg should be OK.
On the strobe light side, since we are dealing with 400V or so, amperage is
very low and transient so 22awg should be OK.
Michle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Foerster
Sent: jeudi 26 janvier 2006 09:25
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 3 conductor AWG18 cable
Michele asked:
I am looking for 3 conductor AWG18 cable to hook up the strobe lights.
Steinair does not have it Does any one have a thought on a source for
this?
This was discussed one or two years ago. I don't recall the numbers, but
the losses from using 22 gauge wire, which is much lighter, and available
from Steinair, are quite acceptable. I'm using 22 gauge three conductor
shield wire for my Whelen strobes, and expect no problem. I was very
impressed at the weight of the shielded 18 gauge supplied by Whelen. The 22
gauge, needing a smaller shield, is much lighter. Search the archive if you
truly believe that 18 gauge is needed.
Jim Foerster, jmfpublic(at)comcast_dot_net Jabiru J400 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
| Subject: | source for molex connectors |
Can anyone point me to sources for molex connectors? I need several small
ones male-female (2, 3, 4 pin) but neither R-Shack nor local auto stores
seem to have what I need.
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | source for molex connectors |
http://www.steinair.com/
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rd2(at)evenlink.com
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:02 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: source for molex connectors
Can anyone point me to sources for molex connectors? I need several small
ones male-female (2, 3, 4 pin) but neither R-Shack nor local auto stores
seem to have what I need.
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Cc: ,
Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Richard
Sipp"
1/26/2006
Hello Dick, My Garmin GNS 430 came with an antenna and installation
instructions for the antenna that called for a large metal ground plane
under the antenna. I called the Garmin tech people and protested.
The technician said there was no real need for such a ground plane, but
suggested that if I was going to put the antenna under a fiberglass upper
cowling area near the engine that I mount it on a small metal shelf to help
screen the antenna from electromagnetic junk that might be radiated from
below.
This I did, ensuring that the antenna had a view clear of any metal
obstruction in the entire upper hemisphere. It has worked great.
OC
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
>
>I didn't see that; thanks for pointing it out.
>
>Don't I recall from somewhere that it's okay to use, say, crimp-on molex
>pins on the appropriate extension wires, as long as a certain symmetry of
>junctions in the cable run is maintained? I think that's how i extended
>by GRT probe wires ages ago, and it _seems_ to work okay.
As long as your T/C wires are 20 or 22AWG, you can run them through
ordinary D-sub connectors . . . SOLID MACHINED pins preferred. While
the pins for a D-sub are NOT identical to the thermocouple wires being
joined, they insert a pair of equal but opposing parasitic thermocouples
into both leadwires. The parasitic thermocouples cancel each other out
because they are in such close proximity to each other and have a common
local temperature.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bob Archer VOR antenna? |
Two questions
Any significant difference in performance with the antenna installed
parallel to the top of the wing vs the bottom?
I know that crossing over the Bob Archer wingtip VOR antenna with the
strobe and position light wires must be done in the Bob Archer
defined way (he provides tie downs in the appropriate
locations). But if the wires cross in front of the antenna by 6 to
12 inches is that OK?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
>From an earlier post, I understood that this would not be applicable to a firewall
situation as the temperatures are different on either side of the firewall.
Somebody keep me honest here........
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 26, 2006 7:59 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
>
>
>
>>
>>I didn't see that; thanks for pointing it out.
>>
>>Don't I recall from somewhere that it's okay to use, say, crimp-on molex
>>pins on the appropriate extension wires, as long as a certain symmetry of
>>junctions in the cable run is maintained? I think that's how i extended
>>by GRT probe wires ages ago, and it _seems_ to work okay.
>
> As long as your T/C wires are 20 or 22AWG, you can run them through
> ordinary D-sub connectors . . . SOLID MACHINED pins preferred. While
> the pins for a D-sub are NOT identical to the thermocouple wires being
> joined, they insert a pair of equal but opposing parasitic thermocouples
> into both leadwires. The parasitic thermocouples cancel each other out
> because they are in such close proximity to each other and have a common
> local temperature.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
I could not get the listed resistors at Digikey and went to Frys, was not
able to get the 1% but was able to get some 2% and 5 %, also on the
BC1.62KZCT could only get a 1.6. I am having problems getting up to the
voltage stated in the troubleshooting area. Is it the tolerance of the
resistors or that 1.62 one maybe? I have checked all my solder joints and
went completely through the troubleshooting guide Bob has with the parts
list. Any help is appreciated.
Ron Triano
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Bob,
Following an earlier Aero-Electric discussion on battery chargers, I
purchased a Schumacher SC-1200A charger to use in maintaining the
Odyssey PC-680 batteries in my airplane. The charger has settings for
flooded-cell, deep-cycle, and AGM/Gel-cell batteries. I've been using
the AGM/Gel-cell setting. I read today in the document titled Charging
Odyssey Drycell Batteries (www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm) where
it states, "In general, do not use either the gel cell or maintenance
free setting, if provided on your charger. Choose the deep cycle
option, should there be one on your charger." So, now I'm confused as
to which to use. My PC-680 doesn't appear to have been harmed by
charging on the AGM/Gel-cell setting, but now I'm confused. Should I
switch to the deep-cycle setting, or continue as before?
Mark
Lancari ES
Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
Qm9iLA0KIA0KVGhlIGNhYmxlIHJlZmVyZW5jZWQgaXMgbm90IFRlZnplbCBpbnN1bGF0ZWQuICBU
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Michle Delsol wrote:
>
> I should have been a little more specific - my question related to feeding
> the power supply and synching three strobes together. Since the current is
> not steady I prefer to shield the feed lines - 4 amps on 18awg should be OK.
> On the strobe light side, since we are dealing with 400V or so, amperage is
> very low and transient so 22awg should be OK.
Actually, amperage is very high on the HV side because you are
discharging a capacitor through a virtual dead short (the ionized gas in
the flash tube). The pulse is fairly short so the average current is low
but the peak is quite high. Use a heavier wire.
Also, shielding won't help you much. The high-current pulse will produce
one heck of a magnetic field on the wire which the non-magnetic
shielding won't do anything to stop. The best thing to do is to make
sure that the return (ground) wire is parallel to and closely bound to
the HV wire. The magnetic fields will be equal and opposite and will
cancel each other out. That is all the shielding you need.
As for the synchronization between the power supplies, those pulses are
low-voltage, low-current signals between the power supply boxes. You
don't really need a heavy wire there.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
Bob,
The cable referenced is not Tefzel insulated. The have Teflon PFA (Perfluoroalkoxy)
or FEP (Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene). Tefzel is ETFE (Ethylne TriFluoroEthylene).
Also - note that the only stranded wire listed in this reference is PVC.
I called Omega and talked with John Bach (I think he is in pre-sales support) and he said they don't make thermocouple wire with Tefzel insulation. I could custom order if 25K ft or more was needed :o). He's a nice guy and suggested: http://www.omega.com/pptst/TFIR_CH_CI_CC_CY_AL.html It's not stranded either.
McMasterr-Carr on Pg 527 per Alan K. Adamson's post.... does sell FEP stranded
type J & K in 20awg. I don't know if it's twisted however.
I'll contact Omega again - appreciate any other insights.
BTW - Omega sells Sub-D type thermocouple alloy pins and sockets. http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=SM_SUB-D_CONN&Nav=temg12
John
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
>
>Does anyone know of a source for twisted pair stranded non sheathed J &
>K thermocouple cable (extension grade is fine)- with tefzel insulation?
>Also what is being used to provide connect/disconnect capability?
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_JX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/EXGG_KX_WIRE.html
http://www.omega.com/pptst/GMP.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bob Archer VOR antenna? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
You will have a greater chance of airframe shadowing if you mount it in the top
of the wingtip. Basically hold it wherever you plan to mount it and look around
the airframe. If your line of site includes metals or carbon fiber, expect
reduced signal strength and reduced range because of it.
Bob is pretty adamant about routing the wires as he shows regardless. However
I believe Dan Checkoway and others have ignored that when it was a ways away
and he reports no problems.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Jurotich
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob Archer VOR antenna?
-->
Two questions
Any significant difference in performance with the antenna installed parallel to
the top of the wing vs the bottom?
I know that crossing over the Bob Archer wingtip VOR antenna with the strobe and
position light wires must be done in the Bob Archer defined way (he provides
tie downs in the appropriate locations). But if the wires cross in front of
the antenna by 6 to
12 inches is that OK?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Why use starter contactor? |
I am using Z-13/8 as a guide to wiring my electrical system and I do not
understand why it specifies a starter contactor. The starter already has
one so it looks like increased part count which equals reduced relaibility.
I looked in the Connection and all I find is "Typical Starter Contactor
Wiring" on page 11-21. There is no explanation of what function the starter
contactor serves. The archives only gives three hits on "starter contactor"
and they do not answer the question: What is the function of the starter
contacter listed in Z-13/8?
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR-2 N52BL
92% done only 53% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
>
>
> >From an earlier post, I understood that this would not be applicable to
> a firewall situation as the temperatures are different on either side of
> the firewall.
>Somebody keep me honest here...
We're talking apples and oranges here.
(1) D-subs can be a useful means for providing
convenience disconnects in thermocouple lines.
(2) D-subs are not suitable for firewall penetrations.
You can use a d-sub either forward or aft of
a protected penetration, just don't depend on
it for BOTH convenience disconnect AND
protected penetration.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable |
Thanks - I knew there was a reason I wasn't gonna do it that way........
Worth the price of my list donation once again........
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 26, 2006 1:36 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EGT/CHT thermocouple cable
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> >From an earlier post, I understood that this would not be applicable to
>> a firewall situation as the temperatures are different on either side of
>> the firewall.
>
>
>>Somebody keep me honest here...
>
>
> We're talking apples and oranges here.
>
> (1) D-subs can be a useful means for providing
> convenience disconnects in thermocouple lines.
>
> (2) D-subs are not suitable for firewall penetrations.
> You can use a d-sub either forward or aft of
> a protected penetration, just don't depend on
> it for BOTH convenience disconnect AND
> protected penetration.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
Bob: its function is to arouse your curiosity so that you'd eventually discover
Z-22, and eliminate the extra contactor from your plans; at least, that's what
it did for me . Not all starters have these, just the PM types like Sky-Tec.
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Lee <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor?
I am using Z-13/8 as a guide to wiring my electrical system and I do not
understand why it specifies a starter contactor. The starter already has
one so it looks like increased part count which equals reduced relaibility.
I looked in the Connection and all I find is "Typical Starter Contactor
Wiring" on page 11-21. There is no explanation of what function the starter
contactor serves. The archives only gives three hits on "starter contactor"
and they do not answer the question: What is the function of the starter
contacter listed in Z-13/8?
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR-2 N52BL
92% done only 53% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>I could not get the listed resistors at Digikey and went to Frys, was not
>able to get the 1% but was able to get some 2% and 5 %, also on the
>BC1.62KZCT could only get a 1.6. I am having problems getting up to the
>voltage stated in the troubleshooting area. Is it the tolerance of the
>resistors or that 1.62 one maybe? I have checked all my solder joints and
>went completely through the troubleshooting guide Bob has with the parts
>list. Any help is appreciated.
Seems Digikey has shuffled the deck again on catalog numbers.
The recommended parts list has been updated to reflect current
offerings at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_E.pdf
It's not possible to troubleshoot your project without seeing
it. If you'll mail it to me with some cash for return postage,
I'll look it over.
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
>
>I am using Z-13/8 as a guide to wiring my electrical system and I do not
>understand why it specifies a starter contactor. The starter already has
>one so it looks like increased part count which equals reduced relaibility.
>I looked in the Connection and all I find is "Typical Starter Contactor
>Wiring" on page 11-21. There is no explanation of what function the starter
>contactor serves. The archives only gives three hits on "starter contactor"
>and they do not answer the question: What is the function of the starter
>contacter listed in Z-13/8?
See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitchell Goodrich" <mgoodrich(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Hello Bob,
I haven't seen this addressed anywhere and thought you would have
some input.
I have 2 different instruments that require a shunt to read
amperage. Is there a way to use 1 shunt for 2 instruments?
Mitchell
813-356-9758
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV Module
>
>
>I could not get the listed resistors at Digikey and went to Frys, was
not
>able to get the 1% but was able to get some 2% and 5 %, also on the
>BC1.62KZCT could only get a 1.6. I am having problems getting up to the
>voltage stated in the troubleshooting area. Is it the tolerance of the
>resistors or that 1.62 one maybe? I have checked all my solder joints
and
>went completely through the troubleshooting guide Bob has with the
parts
>list. Any help is appreciated.
Seems Digikey has shuffled the deck again on catalog numbers.
The recommended parts list has been updated to reflect current
offerings at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_E.pdf
It's not possible to troubleshoot your project without seeing
it. If you'll mail it to me with some cash for return postage,
I'll look it over.
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
I'm planning to buffer my starter switch, wired per Z-22, through a 30A/40A peak-rated
Bosch-style automotive relay; light, cheap (under $2), readily available,
supports .25" fast-on terminal technology. Any real downside to that?
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor?
>
>I am using Z-13/8 as a guide to wiring my electrical system and I do not
>understand why it specifies a starter contactor. The starter already has
>one so it looks like increased part count which equals reduced relaibility.
>I looked in the Connection and all I find is "Typical Starter Contactor
>Wiring" on page 11-21. There is no explanation of what function the starter
>contactor serves. The archives only gives three hits on "starter contactor"
>and they do not answer the question: What is the function of the starter
>contacter listed in Z-13/8?
See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Ghertner <nghertner(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: source for Molex connectors |
On 1/26/06 6:02 AM, "rd2(at)evenlink.com" wrote:
>
> Can anyone point me to sources for molex connectors? I need several small
> ones male-female (2, 3, 4 pin) but neither R-Shack nor local auto stores
> seem to have what I need.
>
> Rumen
Allied Electronics www.Alliedelec.com.
Lory Ghertner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
>
>I'm planning to buffer my starter switch, wired per Z-22, through a
>30A/40A peak-rated Bosch-style automotive relay; light, cheap (under $2),
>readily available, supports .25" fast-on terminal technology. Any real
>downside to that?
>
>-Bill
>
That will work too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
>
>
> > Also, shielding won't help you much. The high-current pulse will produce
> > one heck of a magnetic field on the wire which the non-magnetic
> > shielding won't do anything to stop. The best thing to do is to make
> > sure that the return (ground) wire is parallel to and closely bound to
> > the HV wire. The magnetic fields will be equal and opposite and will
> > cancel each other out. That is all the shielding you need.
>
>Great info. The strobe wires I have, which came with the strobe
>kit, have three wires, and the whole bundle is shielded. I imagine
>one wire is a ground, and one of the other two must be the HV wire,
>but any idea what the third would be? Just curious.
Ground, HV out to tube, trigger voltage to fire it.
See Figure 12-4 in the 'Connection . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>I haven't seen this addressed anywhere and thought you would have
>some input.
>I have 2 different instruments that require a shunt to read
>amperage. Is there a way to use 1 shunt for 2 instruments?
>
>Mitchell
>
>813-356-9758
If they're identical instruments in that the scale
factor for full scale readings are the same . . . usually
50 millivolts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Don't know if it's relevant, but Whelen now sells combined
strobe/nav/position lights, run off a single, typically fuselage-mounted,
strobe controller. They just use one shielded cable out to the wing tips,
with conductors for both the strobes and the nav/position lights.
Is it possible that you have some of that cable?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3 conductor AWG18 cable
>
>
> > Also, shielding won't help you much. The high-current pulse will produce
> > one heck of a magnetic field on the wire which the non-magnetic
> > shielding won't do anything to stop. The best thing to do is to make
> > sure that the return (ground) wire is parallel to and closely bound to
> > the HV wire. The magnetic fields will be equal and opposite and will
> > cancel each other out. That is all the shielding you need.
>
>Great info. The strobe wires I have, which came with the strobe
>kit, have three wires, and the whole bundle is shielded. I imagine
>one wire is a ground, and one of the other two must be the HV wire,
>but any idea what the third would be? Just curious.
Ground, HV out to tube, trigger voltage to fire it.
See Figure 12-4 in the 'Connection . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
I considered that and then went and bought a 25 amp marine key switch.
I wondered whether such a relay would actually increase the chance of
the starter sticking on?? Most of them don't seem very robust for a 40
amp rating and inductive loads?? Ken
sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>I'm planning to buffer my starter switch, wired per Z-22, through a 30A/40A peak-rated
Bosch-style automotive relay; light, cheap (under $2), readily available,
supports .25" fast-on terminal technology. Any real downside to that?
>
>-Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
At 06:37 PM 1/23/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Can anyone tell me where to track down the Honeywell microswitch Bob calls
> >out in one of the wigwag drawings? I can't seem to find anyone who actually
> >stocks it.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mark Supinski
>
> It's a rarely used switch, expensive and probably not stocked many
> places. Allied would order it for you:
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=642-0197&SEARCH=4tl1%2D10&ID=&DESC=4TL1%2D10
>
> Do a Google search on 4tl1-10. A number of parts suppliers
> claim to have them in stock.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Bob & Mark,
Could a Carling Technologies I series 4 pole toggle switch be substituted
here? They don't offer the locking toggle. I ordered an IM251-78 switch for
my 2 axis electric trim control. If memory serves me, Digikey charged me
about a third of the above mentioned Honeywell switch.
See
http://toggle-switches.carlingtech.com/heavy-duty-toggle_switch__52.asp
http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/s_i.pdf
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Whelen literature calls it , Anode, Cathode, and Trigger.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3 conductor AWG18 cable
>
>
> > Also, shielding won't help you much. The high-current pulse will produce
> > one heck of a magnetic field on the wire which the non-magnetic
> > shielding won't do anything to stop. The best thing to do is to make
> > sure that the return (ground) wire is parallel to and closely bound to
> > the HV wire. The magnetic fields will be equal and opposite and will
> > cancel each other out. That is all the shielding you need.
>
>Great info. The strobe wires I have, which came with the strobe
>kit, have three wires, and the whole bundle is shielded. I imagine
>one wire is a ground, and one of the other two must be the HV wire,
>but any idea what the third would be? Just curious.
Ground, HV out to tube, trigger voltage to fire it.
See Figure 12-4 in the 'Connection . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? |
Mark R Steitle wrote:
> Following an earlier Aero-Electric discussion on battery chargers, I
> purchased a Schumacher SC-1200A charger to use in maintaining the
> Odyssey PC-680 batteries in my airplane. The charger has settings for
> flooded-cell, deep-cycle, and AGM/Gel-cell batteries. I've been using
> the AGM/Gel-cell setting. I read today in the document titled Charging
> Odyssey Drycell Batteries (www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm) where
> it states, "In general, do not use either the gel cell or maintenance
> free setting, if provided on your charger. Choose the deep cycle
> option, should there be one on your charger." So, now I'm confused as
> to which to use. My PC-680 doesn't appear to have been harmed by
> charging on the AGM/Gel-cell setting, but now I'm confused. Should I
> switch to the deep-cycle setting, or continue as before?
The charging voltages for AGM and gel-cells are quite different. If the
manufacturer has put an AGM/gel setting it means that the manufacturer
does not understand the difference between AGM and gel batteries.
My guess is that the deep-cycle is probably closer as the charging
voltages that AGM batteries like are quite close to the charging
voltages needed for properly charging deep-cycle flooded-cell batteries.
Ballpark charging voltages (70F-80F, (21C-27C):
AGM/deep-cycle Gel-cell
Charge 14.3V 13.7V
Float 13.4V 13.4V
It is interesting to note that the charge and float voltages for
gel-cells are close enough together that you can actually get away with
one setting for charge and float with gel-cells. 13.6V would probably
work well for both charge and float.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 conductor AWG18 cable |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
> Great info. The strobe wires I have, which came with the strobe
> kit, have three wires, and the whole bundle is shielded. I imagine
> one wire is a ground, and one of the other two must be the HV wire,
> but any idea what the third would be? Just curious.
There is ground, B+ (about 400V), and trigger. The trigger is a very low
current but high voltage (about 3000V) to give the xenon in the tube a
"kick" to start it ionizing. Once that happens the capacitor on the
+400V line discharges through the tube until there is (virtually)
nothing left in the capacitor. At that point the tube winks out and the
capacitor charges again. When it comes time for the flashtube to light
off again, the power supply sends out the 3000V pulse on the trigger
line and the cycle starts all over again.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: source for molex connectors |
Try http://www.steinair.com/connectors.htm they'll be there before you know
it!
Good Luck,
Bob
On 1/26/06, rd2(at)evenlink.com wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone point me to sources for molex connectors? I need several small
> ones male-female (2, 3, 4 pin) but neither R-Shack nor local auto stores
> seem to have what I need.
>
> Rumen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
>From: "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor?
>
>The starter already has one so it looks like increased part count
>which equals reduced reliability. What is the function of the starter
>contactor listed in Z-13/8?
There are heavy duty momentary push buttons that go from 15A to
75A. Here are a couple of examples, 15 amp and 50 amp. I think 15
amp switch would work, or go with the 50 amp switch or go with
the small BOSCH relay as Bill sportav8r(at)aol.com suggested:
http://www.philmore-datak.com/Page%20147.pdf
http://www.philmore-datak.com/EDS2.pdf
SkyTec wire diagram with no firewall start contactor
http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm
Note the catch diode.
Leave the FW starter relay off, if you like, I did. The only down side is
that 3-4 foot length of 2-4 AWG is hot all the time the master is on. I
do not think it's an issue and chance of short or fire is small. If you
get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery
cable will be you only problem. George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <harleyrider.57(at)juno.com> |
Hi all,
I'm building a tube & fabric airplane. I know that GPS can "see" through
fiberglass but does anyone know if it also can see through poly-fiber fabric
finished with the UV protectant silver paint on it?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682
http://mybearhawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery Charging Question - Fight or Switch? |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Brian,
Thanks for your most excellent reply. Looks like I should start using
the deep-cycle setting from now on.
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Charging Question - Fight or
Switch?
Mark R Steitle wrote:
> Following an earlier Aero-Electric discussion on battery chargers, I
> purchased a Schumacher SC-1200A charger to use in maintaining the
> Odyssey PC-680 batteries in my airplane. The charger has settings for
> flooded-cell, deep-cycle, and AGM/Gel-cell batteries. I've been using
> the AGM/Gel-cell setting. I read today in the document titled
Charging
> Odyssey Drycell Batteries (www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm)
where
> it states, "In general, do not use either the gel cell or maintenance
> free setting, if provided on your charger. Choose the deep cycle
> option, should there be one on your charger." So, now I'm confused as
> to which to use. My PC-680 doesn't appear to have been harmed by
> charging on the AGM/Gel-cell setting, but now I'm confused. Should I
> switch to the deep-cycle setting, or continue as before?
The charging voltages for AGM and gel-cells are quite different. If the
manufacturer has put an AGM/gel setting it means that the manufacturer
does not understand the difference between AGM and gel batteries.
My guess is that the deep-cycle is probably closer as the charging
voltages that AGM batteries like are quite close to the charging
voltages needed for properly charging deep-cycle flooded-cell batteries.
Ballpark charging voltages (70F-80F, (21C-27C):
AGM/deep-cycle Gel-cell
Charge 14.3V 13.7V
Float 13.4V 13.4V
It is interesting to note that the charge and float voltages for
gel-cells are close enough together that you can actually get away with
one setting for charge and float with gel-cells. 13.6V would probably
work well for both charge and float.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
I don't know the direct answer - I suspect it would be fine.
The real simple way to find out is a test.
Take your GPS (even a hand-held will do). Select the satellite screen.
Let it lock on for a couple minutes and look at the signal strength (the
height of the bars)
Then take several layers of doped up fabric and lay over the antenna.
Wait a minute or so, then look at the signal levels. If there is little
or no change, you are in great shape. By using several layers, you
increase the attenuation effect of the fabric to simulate worst case.
Hope this helps and let us know the results
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Newton
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:35 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GPS antenna
Hi all,
I'm building a tube & fabric airplane. I know that GPS can "see" through
fiberglass but does anyone know if it also can see through poly-fiber
fabric
finished with the UV protectant silver paint on it?
Thanks,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682
http://mybearhawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
I don't think the hot wire to the starter is to worry about, since it is controllable
via the battery contactor in event of smelling smoke... not perfect protection
but at least control.
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Why use starter contactor?
>From: "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Why use starter contactor?
>
>The starter already has one so it looks like increased part count
>which equals reduced reliability. What is the function of the starter
>contactor listed in Z-13/8?
There are heavy duty momentary push buttons that go from 15A to
75A. Here are a couple of examples, 15 amp and 50 amp. I think 15
amp switch would work, or go with the 50 amp switch or go with
the small BOSCH relay as Bill sportav8r(at)aol.com suggested:
http://www.philmore-datak.com/Page%20147.pdf
http://www.philmore-datak.com/EDS2.pdf
SkyTec wire diagram with no firewall start contactor
http://www.skytecair.com/Wiring_diag.htm
Note the catch diode.
Leave the FW starter relay off, if you like, I did. The only down side is
that 3-4 foot length of 2-4 AWG is hot all the time the master is on. I
do not think it's an issue and chance of short or fire is small. If you
get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery
cable will be you only problem. George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor? |
At 09:59 AM 1/27/2006, you wrote:
>
>If you
>get in a crash and the engine is ripped off, I don't think the battery
>cable will be you only problem. George
>
It may not be, but it could mean the difference between walking away doused
in gasoline, and walking away on fire, hoping somebody can get to you
quickly enough to put out the flames.
This happened to a friend of mine who would have walked away from a crash
if it had not been for that one little spark. I'm putting a starter
contactor on the firewall to absolutely shut off any possibility of the fat
wire going to the starter chafing against baffling material or anything
else in the event the engine decides to leave its normal upright, and
locked position.
What's a few bucks, guys? My experience with this friend of mine has made
me a believer in steel braided fuel hose, Earl's fittings, Nomex clothing,
and a lot of other things that may cost a few dollars extra, but could
avoid years of skin graft surgery.
Dave Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Hughes <richardhughes260(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
Greetings,
I am asking for a friend who is nearing completion of
his airplane.
Strobe sets cost $900
Thee police cares in the Long Island New York area
have strobes in their marker lights.
Is anyone familiar with them?
Any possibility that they could be used in out
aircraft?
And likewise with the automotive LED replacement
bulbs?
-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Cary" <williamc(at)rv9builder.com> |
| Subject: | Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
Rich,
Check out this site. This may be what you're looking for. I will probably
use one of their strobe kits in my RV.
http://www.strobesnmore.com/
Bill
Snip:
I am asking for a friend who is nearing completion of his airplane.
Strobe sets cost $900
Thee police cares in the Long Island New York area have strobes in their
marker lights.
Is anyone familiar with them?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Rich,
I got my strobe system from www.strobesnmore.com. I'm not flying yet,
but know a number of folks who have automotive strobe systems installed
on flying aircraft. I will be using the Whelen tail light/strobe unit
from Vans. You can also check out www.creativair.com.
If you have interior lighting which uses 'regular' filament bulbs, there
are a number of places that have plug-in LED replacements. LEDs won't
replace landing/taxi lights (yet anyway).
As long as you are putting them on a homebuilt - you can use anything
you want, as long as it meets the appropriate FAA spec, if appropriate,
of course.
Dennis Glaeser
RV7A Fuselage
| Date: | Jan 28, 2006 |
| Subject: | Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Rich
Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive:
http://www.kestrobes.com/
I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights
for Europa project.
Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff:
http://www.ultraflightradio.com/
His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers.
Not much power draw.
Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website.
Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base
from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Rich
Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive:
http://www.kestrobes.com/
I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights
for Europa project.
Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff:
http://www.ultraflightradio.com/
His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers.
Not much power draw.
Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website.
Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base
from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Automotive Strobes & LED replacement bulbs |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Rich
Ain't automotive, Ain't certified, Ain't very expensive:
http://www.kestrobes.com/
I am lookin pretty hard at the Dual Magnum and Combo LED position lights
for Europa project.
Search in arcives if ya wanna listen to the boss man speak of his stuff:
http://www.ultraflightradio.com/
His power supply will drive many heads if ya don't like what he offers.
Not much power draw.
Also too look up install and troubleshooting on his website.
Supposedly the LEDs he uses are way powerful, and by machiningthe base
from aluminium he is able to sink out some of those BTUs.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Compact Panel Layout - Interference ? |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Morning All,
I'm considering laying out my panel in a very compact manner
per this image.
http://www.gerf.com/images/panel.jpg
Dynon EFIS D100
AFC AF2500
Garmin GMA 340
Garmin GTX 327
Garmin SL 40
I'm concerned that the electronic instruments may interfere
with the radio or each other being in such close proximity.
Have any of you experienced inter-instrument interference.
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Can someone educate me on switch ratings?
I just red Bob's article on the subject and I have the following question.
In his article he states that one can use the same amp rating that is written on
the side of the switch for 115vac in our 14vdc airplanes. My switches have
a rating of 15 amps at 250vac. So do I have a 7amp switch or a 30 amp swithch
if used in my 14vdc airplane.
The switch btw is an avionics switch in the normal feed wire to the E-bus and downstream
of the diode. My E bus is essentially my avionics bus minus one radio
and has 10 items on it. I'm concerned the switch will be overloaded and perhaps
I should add a contactor or the s704-1 relay from B+C.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jim
Harmon Rocket II
95% wired
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Strobes |
Try www.gs-air.com
They have a self-contained strobe/position light assembly that has nearly
the same footprint as the Whelen counterpart. Prices aren't bad either.
Mark & Lisa Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: switch rating |
Morning, Jim...
>>My switches have a rating of 15 amps at 250vac. So do I have a 7amp
switch or a 30 amp swithch if used in my 14vdc airplane.<<
You have a 15 amp switch! In fact, it is also a 14 amp or a 13 amp or a
5 amp or a 1 amp switch at anything less than 250 volts.
The ratings listed on a switch are the MAXIMUM use for that unit. If
you want to use a smaller voltage, fine...it is still capable of
handling 15 amps. You would want to use a smaller rated switch if you
wanted to save money or weight or size.
A similar example is fuses. Say that a fuse for your auto or aircraft
is rated for 15 amps and 32 volts. Just because you use it on a 28 volts
system, or a 14 volt system doesn't change it's amperage rating. It'll
still trip at or about 15 amps.
It's been awhile since I taught electronics, but there is a bit more to
it all than that. But basically you won't run into any trouble if you
treat the ratings on switches as MAXIMUMS, not REQUIRED.
Harley Dixon
Jim Stone wrote:
>
>Can someone educate me on switch ratings?
>I just red Bob's article on the subject and I have the following question.
>In his article he states that one can use the same amp rating that is written
on the side of the switch for 115vac in our 14vdc airplanes. My switches have
a rating of 15 amps at 250vac. So do I have a 7amp switch or a 30 amp swithch
if used in my 14vdc airplane.
>The switch btw is an avionics switch in the normal feed wire to the E-bus and
downstream of the diode. My E bus is essentially my avionics bus minus one radio
and has 10 items on it. I'm concerned the switch will be overloaded and perhaps
I should add a contactor or the s704-1 relay from B+C.
>Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Jim
>Harmon Rocket II
>95% wired
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: switch rating |
>
>Can someone educate me on switch ratings?
>I just red Bob's article on the subject and I have the following question.
>In his article he states that one can use the same amp rating that is
>written on the side of the switch for 115vac in our 14vdc airplanes. My
>switches have a rating of 15 amps at 250vac. So do I have a 7amp switch
>or a 30 amp swithch if used in my 14vdc airplane.
>The switch btw is an avionics switch in the normal feed wire to the E-bus
>and downstream of the diode. My E bus is essentially my avionics bus
>minus one radio and has 10 items on it. I'm concerned the switch will be
>overloaded and perhaps I should add a contactor or the s704-1 relay from B+C.
Keep in mind that switch ratings are based on electrical
and mechanical stresses over tens of thousands of cycles.
Further, the ratings speak to currents that the switch must
make and break along with the nature of the load's dynamic
responses (resistive, inductive, lamp loads, etc).
The catalog ratings are strongly influenced by environmental
and utilization numbers. I've often observed that more
switches in small aircraft die for LACK OF USE than for
OVERSTRESSED USE.
Generally speaking, ANY full sized toggle switch you
pick up with a rating of 7A or more at any AC voltage
will probably run the lifetime of your airplane in ANY
location in the system up to and including boss-hog
pitot heaters with 30A inrush and 10A running currents
as long as they're regularly called upon to switch those
loads. I.e, cycle every switch, every flight cycle.
10 years from now at one flight/day your switches will
have less than 4,000 cycles on them.
If your e-bus is wired per a Z-figure, it has TWO
independent power pathways (a design goal). So failure
of any one pathway does not generate an 'emergency'.
If the AeroElectric Connection has any agenda, it's to
plant and nurture the seeds of an idea: "No single failure
of any component should be more than a maintenance event."
This includes ANY switch on the panel.
I'll suggest the concerns you cited above are overblown.
The reason one might consider adding the relay at the
battery bus for larger e-bus loads (greater than 5A) . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/E-BusFatFeed.gif
. . . is to create a mini-battery contactor AT THE BATTERY
bus to account for the fact that the always hot feeder
is protected at greater than 5A. Such feeders are worthy
of disconnection AT THE BUS instead of running the wire
all the way to the panel. This is a crash safety convention
borrowed from the TC aircraft world and has nothing to do with the
RATINGS of the switch. One could run a 15A e-bus alternate
feed through a 7A rated toggle switch with very little
concern for service life and zero concern for failure.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor (fire) |
>From: sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote
>
>I don't think the hot wire to the starter is to worry about, since it is
>controllable via the battery contactor in event of smelling smoke... not
>perfect protection but at least control.
>
>-Bill B
Good point, I agree. I stated:
"The only down side is that 3-4 foot length of 2-4 AWG is hot all the time
the master is on".
If the master is off before impact it's a moot point, but light airplanes are
notoriously not cash worthy. The steel tube frame is best, aluminum
semi- monoquoque structure is OK, but as a RV builder the fuselage is
not that robust. However the beauty of the RV is integral wing tanks
outside the cockpit and slow stall. Fiberglass / composites, are one of
the worst. It does not deform or yield to absorb energy. It strains and than
ruptures like an egg. As far as fire any plane that has fuel in the cockpit
is at risk of being a future weenie roast.
>Dave Morris WROTE:
>
>This happened to a friend of mine who would have walked away from a
>crash if it had not been for that one little spark.
Your comments about skin graph are quite graphic. Sorry to hear about
your friend but I don't think the fat starter cable would have made a
difference. He had fuel and a spark, what would another spark have
mattered. Besides as Bob, sportav8 pointed out, the master relay will
eliminate the issue all together if you turn it off, but it does not matter, if
you are comfortable with the FW contactor than put one on. I am just no
convinced it will eliminate the chance of fire significantly. If you look at
firewalls of RV's with big bare copper straps and fuse blocks all cluster
just a foot or so away from the gascolator does not give me warm
fuzziness. I guess the best defense is practice you emergency forced
landing procedures and remember to turn the fuel and electrics off before
the ground smite ye mightily.
>What's a few bucks, guys? My experience with this friend of mine has made
>me a believer in steel braided fuel hose, Earl's fittings, Nomex clothing,
>and a lot of other things that may cost a few dollars extra, but could
>avoid years of skin graft surgery.
I would suggest the heavy duty integral fire sleeve (brown) fuel lines from
StratoFlex or Aeroequip. I don't think Earls' has that? Also an aerospace
quality hose, if you are worried about fuel leaks and fire, should be made by
an approved shop. It cost a lot more than Earl's, and as you say what's a
few extra dollars. Also Nomex and helmets and gloves are all good stuff.
Bird strikes are deadly in fast homebuilts with thin plexiglass windows. The
window on the 757 I fly has multi-panes and very thick. The 250 kts limit
below 10,000 feet is in part for bird strike. I had one and it shattered the
windscreen. It happened at 9,000 feet! It held. So I expect to see you with
a helmet and eye protection and a nomex flight suite going fast Dave.
George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor (fire) |
Mickey Coggins a crit :
>
>
>
>>Bird strikes are deadly in fast homebuilts with thin plexiglass windows.
>>... So I expect to see you with
>>a helmet and eye protection and a nomex flight suite going fast Dave.
>>
>>
>
>
>Although I know it would be a good idea, I just can't see
>myself flying around with a helmet in an RV without getting
>paid. However, speaking of eye protection, can anyone
>recommend some good eye protection in case of a bird strike?
>
>
Hi all,
Fighter pilots always fly with visor down.
My friends warbird pilots fly with nomex suits and crash helmets.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | helmet (was: Why use starter contactor (fire)) |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
> Although I know it would be a good idea, I just can't see
> myself flying around with a helmet in an RV without getting
> paid. However, speaking of eye protection, can anyone
> recommend some good eye protection in case of a bird strike?
I wear a helmet. It provides several useful features:
1. It holds my mic and earspeakers;
2. it provides protection for my noggin from the canopy when someone
else is in the airplane yankin'-'n'-bankin';
3. it provides much better passive hearing protection than a headset;
4. it keeps the sun off my head;
5. it keeps my head warm in winter;
6. the visor provides sun and impact protection for my eyes without
interfering with my peripheral vision;
7. it provides an attach point for an oxygen mask (those of you building
a Harmon Rocket might consider this as your Rocket will work just fine
up at the flight levels where you will get really great fuel efficiency);
8. you can paint stuff on it to look really cool or really stupid
depending on who's looking.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | helmet (was: Why use starter contactor (fire)) |
How do you avoid scratching the canopy with a helmet? I think they use
cloth covers in modern fighters. We don't have much room to spare in an RV.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet (was: Why use starter contactor (fire)) |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>> 8. you can paint stuff on it to look really cool or really stupid
>> depending on who's looking.
>
> Now you're talkin'! :-) It sounds like you've got a nice
> helmet. Which brand/model do you use? I've seen a lot of
> nice ones on the web, but I never wanted to buy one without
> trying it on. I really can't recall any helmets on sale
> at the last few SNFs or OSH, but perhaps I overlooked them.
I bought mine at Flight Suits, Ltd. (http://www.flightsuits.com/) They
usually have a booth at OSH. I don't know about SnF.
I have an HGU-33 with a single visor. (I wish I had the dual visor.)
The trick is to get Flight Suits to provide the helmet, earspeakers, and
mic wiring. Get the helmet fit-kit from Oregon Aero. Their approach to
the liner and earspeakers is quieter and more comfortable. I can wear my
helmet literally all day long and never feel uncomfortable.
Get the super-duper noise-canceling mic from Sigtronics.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why use starter contactor (fire) |
|
| I would suggest the heavy duty integral fire sleeve (brown) fuel lines
from
| StratoFlex or Aeroequip. I don't think Earls' has that? Also an aerospace
| quality hose, if you are worried about fuel leaks and fire, should be made
by
| an approved shop. It cost a lot more than Earl's, and as you say what's a
| few extra dollars. Also Nomex and helmets and gloves are all good stuff.
| Bird strikes are deadly in fast homebuilts with thin plexiglass windows.
The
| window on the 757 I fly has multi-panes and very thick. The 250 kts limit
| below 10,000 feet is in part for bird strike. I had one and it shattered
the
| windscreen. It happened at 9,000 feet! It held. So I expect to see you
with
| a helmet and eye protection and a nomex flight suite going fast Dave.
George
Also - You turn on the landing lights below ten for the same reason - birds.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Ok, so here's experimentation :) |
Ok, so you want an ethernet based interconnect system in your airplane. Need
to hookup a bunch of "serial" devices to each other.... Here ya go, just put
in a switch and start plugging stuff in ...
http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/ -
specifically the little teeny xports...
hmm, the possibilities are limitless. BTW, I talked to a friend who found a
deal and got these modules for $7 a piece at qty 50... He's putting them all
over his house, alarm system, phone system, low voltage light controllers,
etc. He says they can also support "custom" code, nifty little buggers.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter11(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Cc: "RV-list"
Someone else asked about scratching the canopy:
. . . If visor is down in front of you, then a piece of soft leather or
similar on top of helmet protects canopy.
. . . If visor is up, then it will contact canopy - so, one might want to
put a bit (1 foot square or diameter) of "cling plastic" on canopy above
where your head will be. Lots of folks already have sun barriers above
them, which would protect the plexi.
Brian, my helmet simply has a snap on each side for attaching the elastic
strap on the visor. I can unsnap the clear and snap on the colored visor
when needed. I use the clear most of the time, for bird protection, with
sunglasses underneath when needed, so don't really need the tinted visor.
In combat in 1967 up "north" in Package 6, one day I told myself the visor
was bulletproof - I no longer suffered anxiety rolling in on a heavily
defended tgt. Prior to that I worried a bit about a 37 or 57mm in the face.
Piece of cake after I put on my bullet proof visor. Now the biggest threat
is buzzards, snow geese, and other large "mm" birds. Visor is real
protection in event of a birdstrike, not just make believe.
I just had 3M tinted window film (thin sheet of plastic) on my windows on
the Gulf Coast last summer - makes the windows rather "hurricane proof".
The website tells of a company putting these films on windows of a mobile
home "office" at some petro-chemical plant construction site - 3 days or so
later, there was a big explosion - trailer was blown over on its side but
windows were intact.
. . . I'm going to consider experimenting with that stuff on the front part
of my RV-6 tip-up canopy for bird resistance.
Hey, we are on the "Lectric list" - Sorry for being "off topic". Will Cc:
the RV list.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: helmet (was: Why use starter contactor
(fire))
>
>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>>
>>
>> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>>> 8. you can paint stuff on it to look really cool or really stupid
>>> depending on who's looking.
>>
>> Now you're talkin'! :-) It sounds like you've got a nice
>> helmet. Which brand/model do you use? I've seen a lot of
>> nice ones on the web, but I never wanted to buy one without
>> trying it on. I really can't recall any helmets on sale
>> at the last few SNFs or OSH, but perhaps I overlooked them.
>
> I bought mine at Flight Suits, Ltd. (http://www.flightsuits.com/) They
> usually have a booth at OSH. I don't know about SnF.
>
> I have an HGU-33 with a single visor. (I wish I had the dual visor.)
>
> The trick is to get Flight Suits to provide the helmet, earspeakers, and
> mic wiring. Get the helmet fit-kit from Oregon Aero. Their approach to
> the liner and earspeakers is quieter and more comfortable. I can wear my
> helmet literally all day long and never feel uncomfortable.
>
> Get the super-duper noise-canceling mic from Sigtronics.
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)AOL.COM |
I mounted my GPS antenna under Van's fiberglass engine cowl on a little
stand attached to the engine side of the firewall. I even painted the cowl with
a metallic paint. My antenna works GREAT!
Pete in Clearwater
Garmin 530 in an all electric IFR panel
39 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Dave,
Do like Boeing does, they heat the center windscreens of 757 and 767 to
improve bird impact resistance. I can attest to them working, I took a bird
right in the face, or in line with my face, didn't hurt a bit, the bird
wasn't in very good shape though.
A squadron mate of mine took one in the face on a low level Nav in an F-18,
he was so incapacitated that he crashed with no attempted ejection.
I'm with you on the visor thing, there is no better sunscreen and glare
removal.
For those considering a helmet, Flight suits offers active noise canceling
for your helmet. I personally would rather have thousand dollars in a
helmet than a thousand in a set of Bose.
Jim Stone
Harmon Rocket II
>
>
> Someone else asked about scratching the canopy:
> . . . If visor is down in front of you, then a piece of soft leather or
> similar on top of helmet protects canopy.
> . . . If visor is up, then it will contact canopy - so, one might want to
> put a bit (1 foot square or diameter) of "cling plastic" on canopy above
> where your head will be. Lots of folks already have sun barriers above
> them, which would protect the plexi.
>
> Brian, my helmet simply has a snap on each side for attaching the elastic
> strap on the visor. I can unsnap the clear and snap on the colored visor
> when needed. I use the clear most of the time, for bird protection, with
> sunglasses underneath when needed, so don't really need the tinted visor.
>
> In combat in 1967 up "north" in Package 6, one day I told myself the visor
> was bulletproof - I no longer suffered anxiety rolling in on a heavily
> defended tgt. Prior to that I worried a bit about a 37 or 57mm in the
> face.
> Piece of cake after I put on my bullet proof visor. Now the biggest
> threat
> is buzzards, snow geese, and other large "mm" birds. Visor is real
> protection in event of a birdstrike, not just make believe.
>
> I just had 3M tinted window film (thin sheet of plastic) on my windows on
> the Gulf Coast last summer - makes the windows rather "hurricane proof".
> The website tells of a company putting these films on windows of a mobile
> home "office" at some petro-chemical plant construction site - 3 days or
> so
> later, there was a big explosion - trailer was blown over on its side but
> windows were intact.
> . . . I'm going to consider experimenting with that stuff on the front
> part
> of my RV-6 tip-up canopy for bird resistance.
>
> Hey, we are on the "Lectric list" - Sorry for being "off topic". Will
> Cc:
> the RV list.
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:51 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: helmet (was: Why use starter contactor
> (fire))
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>>>> 8. you can paint stuff on it to look really cool or really stupid
>>>> depending on who's looking.
>>>
>>> Now you're talkin'! :-) It sounds like you've got a nice
>>> helmet. Which brand/model do you use? I've seen a lot of
>>> nice ones on the web, but I never wanted to buy one without
>>> trying it on. I really can't recall any helmets on sale
>>> at the last few SNFs or OSH, but perhaps I overlooked them.
>>
>> I bought mine at Flight Suits, Ltd. (http://www.flightsuits.com/) They
>> usually have a booth at OSH. I don't know about SnF.
>>
>> I have an HGU-33 with a single visor. (I wish I had the dual visor.)
>>
>> The trick is to get Flight Suits to provide the helmet, earspeakers, and
>> mic wiring. Get the helmet fit-kit from Oregon Aero. Their approach to
>> the liner and earspeakers is quieter and more comfortable. I can wear my
>> helmet literally all day long and never feel uncomfortable.
>>
>> Get the super-duper noise-canceling mic from Sigtronics.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
Thanks Bob, for the generous offer to look over my OV module. I checked over
everything one more time and saw I forgot to add the 392 resistor, that was
another one I could not locate. I was able to get a 360 Ohm one and tried
it. Now I can get to the 1870 ohms with R2 turned up, and I am around 57
something on the ground side. Did not go any further with the test. Do you
think I can get to the listed ohms if I find a 392 ohm resistor?
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
At 04:17 PM 1/28/2006, Jim Stone wrote:
>For those considering a helmet, Flight suits offers active noise canceling
>for your helmet. I personally would rather have thousand dollars in a
>helmet than a thousand in a set of Bose.
Headsets, Inc., does the same thing for a lot less than FlightSuits.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
I didn't know they did helmet NC.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Riley" <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: helmet issues
>
> At 04:17 PM 1/28/2006, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>
>>For those considering a helmet, Flight suits offers active noise canceling
>>for your helmet. I personally would rather have thousand dollars in a
>>helmet than a thousand in a set of Bose.
>
> Headsets, Inc., does the same thing for a lot less than FlightSuits.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
At 07:22 PM 1/28/2006, you wrote:
>
>I didn't know they did helmet NC.
>Jim
http://www.headsetsinc.com/anr_upgrade.htm
$179.
Flightsuits' stuff is very nice, but good golly gosh it's expensive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
On 1/28/06, PeterHunt1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I mounted my GPS antenna under Van's fiberglass engine cowl on a little
> stand attached to the engine side of the firewall. I even painted the cowl
with
> a metallic paint. My antenna works GREAT!
>
> Pete in Clearwater
> Garmin 530 in an all electric IFR panel
> 39 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Good Morning All,
Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first questions.
Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
fabric cause a loss?
If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
My guess would be no and no. GPS is a digital signal, it's very weak and the
reciever is designed, because it knows what to look for, to pull this weak
signal from very noisy backgrounds.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Good Morning All,
Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told
that
the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first
questions.
Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
fabric cause a loss?
If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Neubauer" <markn(at)fuse.net> |
Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said avian creature
must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder? I can see
this being more of an issue with twins (just a nosecone up front), but I
thought a single engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
Mark Neubauer
GlaStar 875ED
25 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Ron
Digi-key will have numerous resistors that will do the job under various
part numbers. 2% and 5% resistors will change value more with
temperature changes but I doubt that will cause any problem for you.
Exact resistance values are not necessary. The resistors form a voltage
divider. The voltage will be the same ratio as the resistance that you
use if you wish to do the math. Or just assemble what you have and
measure the voltage. As long as you can adjust the trip voltage to the
correct value you should be fine. If it won't adjust to the correct
value then you should only have to change one resistor.
Ken
Ron wrote:
>
>
>
>I could not get the listed resistors at Digikey and went to Frys, was not
>able to get the 1% but was able to get some 2% and 5 %, also on the
>BC1.62KZCT could only get a 1.6. I am having problems getting up to the
>voltage stated in the troubleshooting area. Is it the tolerance of the
>resistors or that 1.62 one maybe? I have checked all my solder joints and
>went completely through the troubleshooting guide Bob has with the parts
>list. Any help is appreciated.
>
>
>
>Ron Triano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
Morning, Mark...
>>first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder?<<
I guess if I had a Glastar, that would be my first thought as well...but
a lot of us here have pushers! Long EZs, VariEzes, Berkuts, Velocities,
E-Racers, etc. etc. And the first thing we think of is birds in the
canopy and stones in the prop!
Harley Dixon
Mark Neubauer wrote:
>
>Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
>How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said avian creature
>must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder? I can see
>this being more of an issue with twins (just a nosecone up front), but I
>thought a single engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
>
>Mark Neubauer
>GlaStar 875ED
>25 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
> -->
>
> Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
> How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said
> avian creature must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180
> HP meat grinder? I can see this being more of an issue with
> twins (just a nosecone up front), but I thought a single
> engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
>
> Mark Neubauer
> GlaStar 875ED
> 25 hours
The bird is unlikely to hit the propellor. For example, at 2400 rpm and 140
knots, a blade (two bladed prop) comes by every 4 feet of forward travel.
2400rev/min*1min/60sec=40revs/second. For two blades, 80 blades/second.
140knots*1.15mph/knot*88feet/sec/60mph=236ft/sec.
236ft/sec/80blade/sec=4feet/blade. Slower planes: it is obviously more
likely to hit the prop, but chances are still that it will pass through the
blades.
I consider bird strikes among the higher risk items, particularly when I fly
near lakes, which Minnesota tends to have. I have seen many birds pass
within 50 feet of the plane, and usually one only has about a second of
seeing them before passing them. I found myself amongst hundreds of flocks
of dozens of pelicans one time near Aberdeen SD (major flyway). These can
be seen from quite far away, but it really got my attention. BTW, this was
at about 2000agl. I've encountered pelicans at 6000agl.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 710 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
Oh, I am so glad I have a 1/2 inch thick windshield. Just remember, if the
bird sees you, he's more than likely to dive.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Peterson
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bird Strikes
> -->
>
> Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
> How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said
> avian creature must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180
> HP meat grinder? I can see this being more of an issue with
> twins (just a nosecone up front), but I thought a single
> engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
>
> Mark Neubauer
> GlaStar 875ED
> 25 hours
The bird is unlikely to hit the propellor. For example, at 2400 rpm and 140
knots, a blade (two bladed prop) comes by every 4 feet of forward travel.
2400rev/min*1min/60sec=40revs/second. For two blades, 80 blades/second.
140knots*1.15mph/knot*88feet/sec/60mph=236ft/sec.
236ft/sec/80blade/sec=4feet/blade. Slower planes: it is obviously more
likely to hit the prop, but chances are still that it will pass through the
blades.
I consider bird strikes among the higher risk items, particularly when I fly
near lakes, which Minnesota tends to have. I have seen many birds pass
within 50 feet of the plane, and usually one only has about a second of
seeing them before passing them. I found myself amongst hundreds of flocks
of dozens of pelicans one time near Aberdeen SD (major flyway). These can
be seen from quite far away, but it really got my attention. BTW, this was
at about 2000agl. I've encountered pelicans at 6000agl.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 710 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Hardened Windshield |
Cheers,
On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools (and
birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Plug for Turn & Bank |
Hi all,
Could someone point me towards a surce for a 3 pin plug for a Turn & Bank.
It appears to be a fairly standard fitting, this particular instruments is
a Unites Instruments.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Let's see if we can make sense of this.
Actually, it has nothing to do with whether it's an analog or digital
signal. Most GPS antennas are what's called "patch" antennas. This means
that there are two pieces of metal that are on different vertical planes.
These planes are actually inside the antenna housing and one is the ground
plane (in effect it's built in). Most of the aviation antennas are also
"active" antennas. This means there is a small voltage that comes from the
receiver to active components in the antenna, one of which is usually a
pre-amplifier. There are two types of amplification, one for King radios
(larger amplification needs), and one for garmin radios (smaller
amplification needs).
Because gps uses 2.4-2.5ghz, these planes of metal are only about 1" square
(yep, usually both are square) and only separated by 1/8" or so. As you
might imagine the wavelength at 2.4G is pretty short.
The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
view of the sky. Anything that could degrade the signal, will remove some
of the quality of signal.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
-->
My guess would be no and no. GPS is a digital signal, it's very weak and the
reciever is designed, because it knows what to look for, to pull this weak
signal from very noisy backgrounds.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Good Morning All,
Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first questions.
Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
fabric cause a loss?
If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
It appears you are ignoring the length of the bird...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex
Peterson
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bird Strikes
> -->
>
> Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
> How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said
> avian creature must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180
> HP meat grinder? I can see this being more of an issue with
> twins (just a nosecone up front), but I thought a single
> engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
>
> Mark Neubauer
> GlaStar 875ED
> 25 hours
The bird is unlikely to hit the propellor. For example, at 2400 rpm and 140
knots, a blade (two bladed prop) comes by every 4 feet of forward travel.
2400rev/min*1min/60sec=40revs/second. For two blades, 80 blades/second.
140knots*1.15mph/knot*88feet/sec/60mph=236ft/sec.
236ft/sec/80blade/sec=4feet/blade. Slower planes: it is obviously more
likely to hit the prop, but chances are still that it will pass through the
blades.
I consider bird strikes among the higher risk items, particularly when I fly
near lakes, which Minnesota tends to have. I have seen many birds pass
within 50 feet of the plane, and usually one only has about a second of
seeing them before passing them. I found myself amongst hundreds of flocks
of dozens of pelicans one time near Aberdeen SD (major flyway). These can
be seen from quite far away, but it really got my attention. BTW, this was
at about 2000agl. I've encountered pelicans at 6000agl.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 710 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
Could you clarify your use of the word "clear" in the following statement:
The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
view of the sky.
This could be read as "with no metallic objects blocking all or part of the
view", or as "with nothing, metallic or otherwise, between the antenna and
the satellite".
You gave such an excellent explanation that I want to make sure that I've
got it 100%...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
K. Adamson
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Let's see if we can make sense of this.
Actually, it has nothing to do with whether it's an analog or digital
signal. Most GPS antennas are what's called "patch" antennas. This means
that there are two pieces of metal that are on different vertical planes.
These planes are actually inside the antenna housing and one is the ground
plane (in effect it's built in). Most of the aviation antennas are also
"active" antennas. This means there is a small voltage that comes from the
receiver to active components in the antenna, one of which is usually a
pre-amplifier. There are two types of amplification, one for King radios
(larger amplification needs), and one for garmin radios (smaller
amplification needs).
Because gps uses 2.4-2.5ghz, these planes of metal are only about 1" square
(yep, usually both are square) and only separated by 1/8" or so. As you
might imagine the wavelength at 2.4G is pretty short.
The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
view of the sky. Anything that could degrade the signal, will remove some
of the quality of signal.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
-->
My guess would be no and no. GPS is a digital signal, it's very weak and the
reciever is designed, because it knows what to look for, to pull this weak
signal from very noisy backgrounds.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Good Morning All,
Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first questions.
Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
fabric cause a loss?
If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Is anyone with the Garmin SL-30 nav-comm using the built-in intercom?
If so, is it acceptable? Or do you recommend buying a separate intercom?
Is squelch a problem? Do you have control over squelch? Is there a means to
input music? Is there a muting function?
All advice appreciated.
Stan Sutterfield
www.rv-8a.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Riggs <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plug for Turn & Bank |
Try Aircraft Spruce part # 10-00789 Cannon Plu MS3106A-10SL-3S and part # 10-00959
Cable Clamp MS3057-4A. That is what I used.
Hi all,
Could someone point me towards a surce for a 3 pin plug for a Turn & Bank.
It appears to be a fairly standard fitting, this particular instruments is
a Unites Instruments.
Thanks, Paul
Lynn A. Riggs
riggs_la(at)yahoo.com
St. Paul, MN
BH #656 Kit #22
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
On 29 Jan 2006, at 08:47, Mark Neubauer wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
> How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said avian
> creature
> must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder? I
> can see
> this being more of an issue with twins (just a nosecone up front),
> but I
> thought a single engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
Search the RV-List archives for bird strike. Look for posts from
Laird Owens, Dec 2000 (account of hawk through an RV-6 canopy)
Doug Weiler, Aug 1996 (account of dove through an RV-4 canopy)
And go to the account of John Perri's bird strike story with his RV-6:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/bird.html
The prop provides very, very little protection from a bird strike.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Any "obstruction", or part of an "obstruction" will degrade the signal in
some way. Metal objects will be the worst, and even fiberglass will degrade
the signal to some extent. With fiberglass, it has to do more with
thickness. With metal, or conductive objects (like carbon fiber), it has to
do with obscuration.
It's a very small antenna (approx 1" x 1") and to gather as much signal as
possible, it needs to see as much of the sky/satellites as it can. This is
complicated somewhat by being in a aircraft to begin with. An Airplane can
"bank" and "pitch", so your view of the sky, and any obstructions, need to
take that into account. Think about it this way. If the satellite had a
string attached from it to your airplane, what parts of the plane
(obstructions) would get in the way of a "clear" view of the sky/satellite,
as the plane moves, pitches, banks, etc. This is compounded by the fact
that most GPS receivers are 12 if not 16 channel, so they are actually
seeing 12 or 16 satellites at the same time with each of the satellites
being in different sky locations...
You probably will never find the *perfect spot*, so you just need to pick
the spot with the most "clear" view of the entire sky and hopefully it will
be the spot with the least of the evils.
Hope this helps.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
-->
Could you clarify your use of the word "clear" in the following statement:
The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
view of the sky.
This could be read as "with no metallic objects blocking all or part of the
view", or as "with nothing, metallic or otherwise, between the antenna and
the satellite".
You gave such an excellent explanation that I want to make sure that I've
got it 100%...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K.
Adamson
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Let's see if we can make sense of this.
Actually, it has nothing to do with whether it's an analog or digital
signal. Most GPS antennas are what's called "patch" antennas. This means
that there are two pieces of metal that are on different vertical planes.
These planes are actually inside the antenna housing and one is the ground
plane (in effect it's built in). Most of the aviation antennas are also
"active" antennas. This means there is a small voltage that comes from the
receiver to active components in the antenna, one of which is usually a
pre-amplifier. There are two types of amplification, one for King radios
(larger amplification needs), and one for garmin radios (smaller
amplification needs).
Because gps uses 2.4-2.5ghz, these planes of metal are only about 1" square
(yep, usually both are square) and only separated by 1/8" or so. As you
might imagine the wavelength at 2.4G is pretty short.
The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
view of the sky. Anything that could degrade the signal, will remove some
of the quality of signal.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
-->
My guess would be no and no. GPS is a digital signal, it's very weak and the
reciever is designed, because it knows what to look for, to pull this weak
signal from very noisy backgrounds.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
Good Morning All,
Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first questions.
Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
fabric cause a loss?
If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
Peter,
Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Stan, this was discussed at length over on the RV forums
(www.vansairforce.net). From all accounts, it useable, but the first time
you experience a *real* intercomm, you'll want one. :)...
Depends on what you want for features, aux inputs, quality, conveniences
(like squelch, etc). For the little extra money, it sure seems most suggest
to put in a dedicated intercomm. But I'd suggest you go read the comments
over there.
I will have an SL-30, but I'm also going to put in a dedicated audio
panel/intercomm.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 Intercom
Listers,
Is anyone with the Garmin SL-30 nav-comm using the built-in intercom?
If so, is it acceptable? Or do you recommend buying a separate intercom?
Is squelch a problem? Do you have control over squelch? Is there a means
to input music? Is there a muting function?
All advice appreciated.
Stan Sutterfield
www.rv-8a.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
> -->
>
> It appears you are ignoring the length of the bird...
>
>
No. Most birds are small compared to four feet, so they will more likely
than not pass through the prop unscathed. For the case of a large bird,
should it hit the prop, the remaining two chunks will still likely hit the
windscreen if they were in line with it. I would not want to even have a
sparrow hit the windscreen. See Kevin's post and dig in the archives.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 710 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SL-30 Intercom |
Short answer ...
Get the intercom and make sure it is stereo with a music input.
Lots of reason covered in archives.
James
SL30 w/DRE44e
On 1/29/06, Speedy11(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> Is anyone with the Garmin SL-30 nav-comm using the built-in intercom?
> If so, is it acceptable? Or do you recommend buying a separate intercom?
> Is squelch a problem? Do you have control over squelch? Is there a means
> to
> input music? Is there a muting function?
> All advice appreciated.
> Stan Sutterfield
> www.rv-8a.net
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
In my case anything becomes something of a compromise . . . If I put
the antenna behind the canopy, on top of the fuselage, and leave it
white (unpainted) I end up with 10 more of RG/400 which isn't
insignificant at 2.4 Ghz (but maybe not much of a factor with an
active antenna?) . . . If I put it on the glare shield and paint it
black I have Plexiglas and a layer of paint attenuating the signal, or
if as suggested put it under the cowl I have the fiberglass and paint
in the way?!
So Alan and anyone else that wishes to comment, what would you choose?
Thanks,
Bob in Iowa
On 1/29/06, Alan K. Adamson wrote:
>
> Any "obstruction", or part of an "obstruction" will degrade the signal in
> some way. Metal objects will be the worst, and even fiberglass will degrade
> the signal to some extent. With fiberglass, it has to do more with
> thickness. With metal, or conductive objects (like carbon fiber), it has to
> do with obscuration.
>
> It's a very small antenna (approx 1" x 1") and to gather as much signal as
> possible, it needs to see as much of the sky/satellites as it can. This is
> complicated somewhat by being in a aircraft to begin with. An Airplane can
> "bank" and "pitch", so your view of the sky, and any obstructions, need to
> take that into account. Think about it this way. If the satellite had a
> string attached from it to your airplane, what parts of the plane
> (obstructions) would get in the way of a "clear" view of the sky/satellite,
> as the plane moves, pitches, banks, etc. This is compounded by the fact
> that most GPS receivers are 12 if not 16 channel, so they are actually
> seeing 12 or 16 satellites at the same time with each of the satellites
> being in different sky locations...
>
> You probably will never find the *perfect spot*, so you just need to pick
> the spot with the most "clear" view of the entire sky and hopefully it will
> be the spot with the least of the evils.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Denton
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:34 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
>
> -->
>
> Could you clarify your use of the word "clear" in the following statement:
>
> The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
> view of the sky.
>
> This could be read as "with no metallic objects blocking all or part of the
> view", or as "with nothing, metallic or otherwise, between the antenna and
> the satellite".
>
> You gave such an excellent explanation that I want to make sure that I've
> got it 100%...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K.
> Adamson
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:12 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
>
>
>
>
> Let's see if we can make sense of this.
>
> Actually, it has nothing to do with whether it's an analog or digital
> signal. Most GPS antennas are what's called "patch" antennas. This means
> that there are two pieces of metal that are on different vertical planes.
> These planes are actually inside the antenna housing and one is the ground
> plane (in effect it's built in). Most of the aviation antennas are also
> "active" antennas. This means there is a small voltage that comes from the
> receiver to active components in the antenna, one of which is usually a
> pre-amplifier. There are two types of amplification, one for King radios
> (larger amplification needs), and one for garmin radios (smaller
> amplification needs).
>
> Because gps uses 2.4-2.5ghz, these planes of metal are only about 1" square
> (yep, usually both are square) and only separated by 1/8" or so. As you
> might imagine the wavelength at 2.4G is pretty short.
>
> The most critical issue with a GPS antenna, it to make sure it has a "clear"
> view of the sky. Anything that could degrade the signal, will remove some
> of the quality of signal.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
> Gray
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
>
> -->
>
> My guess would be no and no. GPS is a digital signal, it's very weak and the
> reciever is designed, because it knows what to look for, to pull this weak
> signal from very noisy backgrounds.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:11 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS Antenna
>
>
> Good Morning All,
>
> Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
> the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
>
> I have seen them mounted on a wooden support just beneath the fabric on a
> couple of Beech Staggerwings and I have seen many supported by various means
>
> near a Plexiglas window or canopy, all without ground planes.
>
> The question posed by Bob In Iowa adds another facet to the first questions.
>
>
> Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
>
> Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
> fabric cause a loss?
>
> If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 1/28/2006 11:34:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Peter,
>
> Have you attempted to measure the "attenuation factor" if any?
>
> I'm installing a 430 in an all electric IFR Panel in a RV-8.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob in Iowa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
Is anyone using this gadget?
http://tinyurl.com/cg3az
More expensive ($30) than an oil pressure sender with aux 'warning'
contacts ($25), but still interesting. Any ideas about what's under
the hood? Ideas for a DIY version?
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
On 29 Jan 2006, at 10:58, Alan K. Adamson wrote:
>
>
> Any "obstruction", or part of an "obstruction" will degrade the
> signal in
> some way. Metal objects will be the worst, and even fiberglass
> will degrade
> the signal to some extent. With fiberglass, it has to do more with
> thickness. With metal, or conductive objects (like carbon fiber),
> it has to
> do with obscuration.
My GPS picks up useable signals inside my garage. The signal has to
come through the shingles, the plywood in the roof, several inches of
pink fibreglas insulation, more plywood and drywall and my plexiglas
canopy before it gets to the antenna. I'm sure the signal is
degraded, as the number of satellites seen is lower than it should
be. But it still locks on to five or six every time I fire it up.
If you want the best possible performance, then put the antenna
outside. But many people have put them under the cowl, and they
report the GPS still works fine.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
This is so curious.... I've never understood the want or need for a "hobbs"
type meter in an airplane that you own. I suppose for 2 reasons. A) most
of the engine monitors of which just about everyone has no a days has one
built in; b) what information do they give you that you need. No maint that
I know of uses hobbs time, they are all tach time. And if you just need to
know how long the flight is, then get a cheap timer or wear a watch.
This is just soo odd for me... Perhaps someone can help enlighten me on this
topic?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D Wysong
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas?
Is anyone using this gadget?
http://tinyurl.com/cg3az
More expensive ($30) than an oil pressure sender with aux 'warning'
contacts ($25), but still interesting. Any ideas about what's under the
hood? Ideas for a DIY version?
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Helmet and nomex (was: Re: Why use starter contactor |
(fire))
> ... Also Nomex and helmets and gloves are all good stuff.
> Bird strikes are deadly in fast homebuilts with thin plexiglass windows.
> The window on the 757 I fly has multi-panes and very thick. The 250 kts limit
> below 10,000 feet is in part for bird strike. I had one and it shattered the
> windscreen. It happened at 9,000 feet! It held. So I expect to see you with
> a helmet and eye protection and a nomex flight suite going fast Dave.
> George
Don't rush on the Nomex. In a hot summer cockpit it can lead to
dehydration and reduced pilot performance. I fear that more than I fear
a fire in the cockpit. Without someone shooting at me fire in the
cockpit is a lot less likely that pilot-induced stupidity.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
David Carter wrote:
> Brian, my helmet simply has a snap on each side for attaching the elastic
> strap on the visor. I can unsnap the clear and snap on the colored visor
> when needed. I use the clear most of the time, for bird protection, with
> sunglasses underneath when needed, so don't really need the tinted visor.
Ah, you must be wearing the HGU-55. That is the more popular helmet than
the older (and clunkier) HGU-33 I wear. The HGU-33 I wear has the
tension knob that controls the visor.
> In combat in 1967 up "north" in Package 6, one day I told myself the visor
> was bulletproof - I no longer suffered anxiety rolling in on a heavily
> defended tgt. Prior to that I worried a bit about a 37 or 57mm in the face.
> Piece of cake after I put on my bullet proof visor. Now the biggest threat
> is buzzards, snow geese, and other large "mm" birds. Visor is real
> protection in event of a birdstrike, not just make believe.
I combat you have to tell yourself something or you won't be able to
make yourself go.
> Hey, we are on the "Lectric list" - Sorry for being "off topic". Will Cc:
> the RV list.
This seems to be more about systems. The helmet is part of your
communications and environmental systems. With an HMD (head-mounted
display) it becomes part of your navigation and systems monitoring.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Jim Stone wrote:
> For those considering a helmet, Flight suits offers active noise canceling
> for your helmet. I personally would rather have thousand dollars in a
> helmet than a thousand in a set of Bose.
I haven't tried their active noise reduction. My experience with ANR
headsets is that they lack the same level of passive noise reduction
needed to protect your hearing. (ANR only takes out the low frequencies
which do not cause hearing loss.) Does the ANR still preserve the
passive noise reduction?
And then there is the added complexity with its attendant reduction in
reliability.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Richard Riley wrote:
>
> At 07:22 PM 1/28/2006, you wrote:
>>
>> I didn't know they did helmet NC.
>> Jim
>
> http://www.headsetsinc.com/anr_upgrade.htm
>
> $179.
>
> Flightsuits' stuff is very nice, but good golly gosh it's expensive.
No kidding. There are some Chinese AF helmets available on E-Bay. A
friend with a CJ6A got one. It looks pretty nice but does not have
earspeakers or boom mic. One would have to add those things but
otherwise the price is right.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter11(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hardened Windshield |
For 3M films, go to
http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/
The "breakage protection" films are listed under "Safety and Security
Films" - At the link above, go to the left column and click "Products", then
"Residential" (or probably any of them) and click
"3M Scotchshield Safety & Security Films" link after reading the blurb.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
>
> Cheers,
> On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
> Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
> which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools
> (and
> birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
> Ferg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
Does anyone have any information on antenna testers. I've installed copper
foil antenna's in my Seawind and I need to test there integrity. If anyone
could tell me where I could purchase such a unit it would be greatly appreciated.
Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Somewhere in my totally uninformed background I thought I had been told that
> the GPS antenna required no ground plane at all.
I think it depends on the type of patch antenna used. Some have one
built-in. Some don't.
> Does the lack of a ground plane cause a loss in signal strength?
>
> Does the requirement to bring the signal through Plexiglas, fiberglass or
> fabric cause a loss?
The answer to this is 'yes' but the real question is, what are your
signal margins. The nice thing about space communications is that path
loss is relatively fixed allowing successful operation at very low
signal margins. The only real problem is rain-fade and this is usually
not a big problem at 1.7 GHz where GPS operates.
> If these are factors, how does one measure the loss?
It would be nice if the receiver actually provided the actual
single-to-noise ratio number:
E /N
b/ 0
(E sub bee over N sub zero)
but most receivers just provide a number between zero and 127 or zero
and 255.
The key is to see if your receiver locks up reliably on satellites that
are very close to the horizon. If it can see a bird that has an
elevation of only 5-10 degrees, your system is working just fine.
Remember that ANY metal between your antenna and the bird, and that
means an engine mount tube or your head, will make the signal from that
bird go away as far as the GPS receiver is concerned.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
Mark Neubauer wrote:
>
> Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>
> How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said avian creature
> must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder? I can see
> this being more of an issue with twins (just a nosecone up front), but I
> thought a single engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
Consider the width of the blade compared to the area of the propeller
disk. A lot is going to get through. 2500 RPM is 42 RPS. With a
two-bladed prop that is 84 blades-per-second. The "hole" between blades
going by is then open for 12 ms.
If the bird is traveling at 160 kts or 370 fps and has a length of 1
foot, it is going to take 3.7 ms to pass through your prop arc. That
implies to me that most birds will likely pass through your prop arc
without ever being touched by a prop blade.
And it doesn't matter that much that the prop chops said bird into two
pieces. The combined momentum of the two pieces doesn't change and will
still likely hit your windscreen with effectively the same impact.
My guess is that it doesn't matter one bit. That sucker is still going
to give your windscreen one hell of a whack.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
ogoodwin(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Bottom line, to me, is that if you fly much you WILL take a bird in the cockpit
area. If you're lucky, it'll be a sparrow. If not, something larger.
I took a sea gull in the wing of a Grumman Tiger on take off. I was at
about 80 kts and the sucker was sitting on the runway. He decided to fly
out of the way as I was on my takeoff roll. I didn't even know I had hit
him until I got to my destination and went to put the airplane away.
The leading edge of the wing was crushed. We were able to carefully
hammer the leading edge back into shape. Fortunately it was between ribs
so the structure was still sound. Had a rib been crushed I would have
been looking at a totaled airplane as it would have needed a new wing.
And that was only at 80 kts.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SL-30 Intercom |
Speedy11(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Listers,
> Is anyone with the Garmin SL-30 nav-comm using the built-in intercom?
> If so, is it acceptable? Or do you recommend buying a separate intercom?
I went separate because I want to be able to easily adjust level and
squelch. Getting to these parameters in in the SL-30 set-up screen is an
annoyance.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wesley Warner <warner.wesley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
Just an FYI. I had my first strike a few months ago. I was flying a
twin that has 4-blade props with the blade width approx. 6", turning
1700RPM. The bird went through the propeller leaving no trace on the
blades. It made a pretty decent sized dent in the leading edge of the
wing. Wes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
>
>Does anyone have any information on antenna testers. I've installed copper
>foil antenna's in my Seawind and I need to test there integrity. If anyone
>could tell me where I could purchase such a unit it would be greatly
>appreciated.
>Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
There are a variety of low cost, 'swr' meters that need
your vhf comm transmitter as a signal source for operation.
Some don't work very well (show low SWR when in fact the
match is poor). My personal favorite is the MFJ-259. I've
owned two and have purchased them for clients. They've gone
up about $100 since I purchased my first one some years ago
but they're still about the best value out there for serious
antenna work. See:
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-269
and
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/man/pdf/MFJ-269.pdf
This is the kind of tool a club ought to own and 'rent'
out. I used to rent one but after it had been out and back
about 10x (break even on acquisition cost) it was needing
too much maintenance attention to make it a useful business
activity. I refurbished the rental and sold it. Purchased a
second one which has been used more than enough times to justify
having it.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
If you scrounge up a used one, make sure it's designed for VHF. There are
a lot of used ham radio units you might find on eBay that only work well on HF.
Dave Morris
N5UP
At 02:41 PM 1/29/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >Does anyone have any information on antenna testers. I've installed copper
> >foil antenna's in my Seawind and I need to test there integrity. If anyone
> >could tell me where I could purchase such a unit it would be greatly
> >appreciated.
> >Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
>
> There are a variety of low cost, 'swr' meters that need
> your vhf comm transmitter as a signal source for operation.
> Some don't work very well (show low SWR when in fact the
> match is poor). My personal favorite is the MFJ-259. I've
> owned two and have purchased them for clients. They've gone
> up about $100 since I purchased my first one some years ago
> but they're still about the best value out there for serious
> antenna work. See:
>
>http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-269
>
>and
>
>http://www.mfjenterprises.com/man/pdf/MFJ-269.pdf
>
> This is the kind of tool a club ought to own and 'rent'
> out. I used to rent one but after it had been out and back
> about 10x (break even on acquisition cost) it was needing
> too much maintenance attention to make it a useful business
> activity. I refurbished the rental and sold it. Purchased a
> second one which has been used more than enough times to justify
> having it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
Thanks for the imput Dave. I don't know anything about this stuff. Are you
saying that a Ham radio that operates on VHF will test the antenna's on my
plane? Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | tach vs. Hobbs time (was: Powergenie - anyone using |
it? DIY ideas?)
Alan K. Adamson wrote:
> I totally get Tach time (it's the slower one, cuz it's based upon RPM), but
> I don't get a hobbs type meter in anything but a flight school airplane.
Except in twins where there is no "tach" time as the tachometers don't
keep time.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
TSaccio(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Thanks for the imput Dave. I don't know anything about this stuff. Are you
> saying that a Ham radio that operates on VHF will test the antenna's on my
> plane? Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
You aren't looking for a ham radio, per se. You are looking for an SWR
meter (or directional wattmeter) that is designed to operate at 120 MHz.
Bob used to have an antenna analyzer he used to loan to people just for
this purpose.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes and deer- OT expanded |
rd2(at)evenlink.com wrote:
> There are some kind of whistles people attach on bumpers to chase away deer
> by u-sound; is there anything effective to use on an aircraft against birds
> or deer?
Birds respond well to a shotgun. Deer respond better to a 30/06 or a
.308 Winchester.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> Brian, they aren't equipped with earspeakers and boom mic because they
> aren't needed---that's what the tin can and piece of string are for in
> the accessories kit.
We tend to make fun of the Russians and Chinese as their stuff tends to
be less technically advanced than ours but having spent a fair bit of
time with their flying hardware has given me a healthy respect for what
they do. I really like the fact that they design their structures to
withstand 100% overload at failure instead of 50% as we do here, i.e. an
airframe rated at 6G by the Chinese or Russians is tested to 12G before
failure, not 9G as we do here.
And they do have intercoms in the Chinese aircraft. It is just that they
use vacuum tubes. (True!)
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Ghertner <nghertner(at)verizon.net> |
On 1/29/06 12:14 PM, "Mickey Coggins" wrote:
>
>
>> . . . If I put it on the glare shield and paint it
>> black I have Plexiglas and a layer of paint attenuating the signal, or
>> if as suggested put it under the cowl I have the fiberglass and paint
>> in the way?!
>>
>> So Alan and anyone else that wishes to comment, what would you choose?
>
> Any chance you can find a compatible black antenna on the
> market somewhere?
The Trimble antenna is black.
You guys are a lot more esoteric into this stuff than I; I called the Garmin
tech folks who told me to put their antenna under the fiberglass without a
ground plane and be done with it. No problem. Lory Ghertner
________________________________________________________________________________
>>>o Alan and anyone else that wishes to comment, what would you choose?
>>>
>>>
>>Any chance you can find a compatible black antenna on the
>>market somewhere?
>>
>>
Hi all,
Don't remember what the original poster's GPS was, but if it is the
ubiquitous Garmin 400 series, the following antenna is black,
inexpensive (24 euros with coax, yes sir), and works great.
We regularly catch satellites from inside a closed hangar. The reception
has always been flawless in flight.
See
http://contrails.free.fr/gps_en.php
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
Brian's right. You just need the SWR meter (aka "SWR Bridge"). Then you
use your own aircraft band transmitter. I bought an SWR meter a long long
time ago from Radio Shack and it's worked dandy for me for all these
years. What I was basically warning you about is that there are some SWR
meters that are not designed for VHF. I used to have a Heathkit SWR meter
that would only work on HF, and not VHF. So be careful if you are going to
go out there and pick one up on eBay.
Dave
At 04:29 PM 1/29/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>TSaccio(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the imput Dave. I don't know anything about this stuff. Are
> you
> > saying that a Ham radio that operates on VHF will test the antenna's on
> my
> > plane? Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
>
>You aren't looking for a ham radio, per se. You are looking for an SWR
>meter (or directional wattmeter) that is designed to operate at 120 MHz.
>
>Bob used to have an antenna analyzer he used to loan to people just for
>this purpose.
>
>--
>Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
>I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
i bought a simple SWR off ebay, a MFJ-841, which seem to do the trick,
The MFJ-259 is nice, but takes more explaining to the folks using it who
are less techno-literate.
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
>TSaccio(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Thanks for the imput Dave. I don't know anything about this stuff. Are you
>>saying that a Ham radio that operates on VHF will test the antenna's on my
>>plane? Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
>>
>>
>
>You aren't looking for a ham radio, per se. You are looking for an SWR
>meter (or directional wattmeter) that is designed to operate at 120 MHz.
>
>Bob used to have an antenna analyzer he used to loan to people just for
>this purpose.
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Tester |
Check with your local Ham Radio club. Someone may have the equipment and do
the test for you.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From: <TSaccio(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Tester
>
> Does anyone have any information on antenna testers. I've installed copper
> foil antenna's in my Seawind and I need to test there integrity. If anyone
> could tell me where I could purchase such a unit it would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Tom Saccio _tsaccio(at)aol.com_ (mailto:tsaccio(at)aol.com)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
Alan K. Adamson wrote:
>
> I doubt the ratio will change. For example. Unless you run at "max RPM"
> the tach time will always be less than the hobbs time, not matter how long
> the flight.
Uh, not quite.
> It has to do with what the Tach registers as 100%, let's say
> it's 2700, but that is also redline, then any rpm less than 2700 will be the
> associated percentage less tach time than 100%... It get's a little funky
> with constant speed props, but the same basically applies.
Actually, you will find that various mechanical recording tachometers
have different standard RPMs where the tach-time = real-time (hobbs).
Most mechanical recording tachs have their time set to be accurate at
either 2300 RPM or 2500 RPM, not redline.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas?
>
>
> You always "report hobbs time" to what/where??? If to insurance for total
> flying time, then I agree with that.
Alan, I record it in my pilot log book after each flight. Each flight also
notates the ending Hobbs time. When I was flight training, the plane did
not know what "Tach Time" was so I continue to use the same system.
>
> If you do oil changes, for example on 50 hours intervals, do you use hobbs
> time or tach time? When you log engine time, do you use hobbs or
> tach......
> I would suggest that standard practice is to use tach for either of the
> above. Again, only place I know where hobbs is used is when you want to
> know how long the flight was and it's directly related to the "clock" time
> from engine start up to engine shutdown.
I like simplicity. I use Hobbs time for everything. That includes
maintenance cycles for changing oil. If I change it a bit early as compared
to tach time, I should be helping my engine live longer. Idle time
particularly for warm up is important especially in the winter months. I
would not think it would be good to just act as if it did not matter.
However, it is a good idea to use a consistent time system so I don't
disagree with your approach.
>
> Most people log that as "their flight time", but use the tach for maint,
> etc.
>
> Alan
>
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 80 hours HOBBS time. ( 62 hours tach
time.)
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
Achieving a certain level of success in life is only important if you can
finally enjoy the level you've reached after you've reached it.
L R Helming, who thought of it last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | How to Crimp Flag Terminals? |
Greetings,
I have a handful of flag style fully insulated .250" quick connectors that look
sort of like this:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Amp/Web%20Data/520129.pdf
Since they are fully insulated, they won't fit in my ratchet crimper tool. Even
if I force it into the crimper, it looks like it will pretty much wipe out much
of the insulation. The 90=B0 angle is just what I need if I can figure out
how to crimp it. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Dennis Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
I hesitate to say what's inside it...the cost is modest, but furthermore the literature
says it's for two cycle engines that have no oil pressure senders to
use for the Hobbs job.
Using an oil pressure switch seems more reliable and easier, but what the heck--send
the company your money.
For those itching to copy the thing--I very strongly suspect it is a P-fet 13V
Zener shunt regulator (Just three parts!). If you know what that is, you can copy
it. If you don't know what that is, probably please don't try it.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7955#7955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strikes |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
>Mark Neubauer wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Sorry for venturing off-topic, but one question:
>>
>>How frequent is a bird strike to the windscreen when said avian creature
>>must first pass through the 76" diameter, 180 HP meat grinder? I can see
>>this being more of an issue with twins (just a nosecone up front), but I
>>thought a single engine plane would be pretty safe from this problem.
>>
>>
>
>Consider the width of the blade compared to the area of the propeller
>disk. A lot is going to get through. 2500 RPM is 42 RPS. With a
>two-bladed prop that is 84 blades-per-second. The "hole" between blades
>going by is then open for 12 ms.
>
>If the bird is traveling at 160 kts or 370 fps and has a length of 1
>foot, it is going to take 3.7 ms to pass through your prop arc. That
>implies to me that most birds will likely pass through your prop arc
>without ever being touched by a prop blade.
>
>And it doesn't matter that much that the prop chops said bird into two
>pieces. The combined momentum of the two pieces doesn't change and will
>still likely hit your windscreen with effectively the same impact.
>
>My guess is that it doesn't matter one bit. That sucker is still going
>to give your windscreen one hell of a whack.
>
And then there's the very large body of empirical evidence....
I've personally seen a 'duck shaped' 6-8" deep dent in the leading edge
of my neighbor's Bonanza wing, next to the fuselage & within the prop
arc. Ponder the impact needed to crush the curved leading edge of a wing
that deep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
Ah, ha.... Ok, for you that works, for most, they use tach for maint, etc.
I only use Hobbs for recording the flight time in my log book.... But my
engine monitor will give me that numbers, so not hobbs in my airplane.
Thanks for the dialog, I didn't think many used that mechanism...
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas?
-->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas?
>
>
> You always "report hobbs time" to what/where??? If to insurance for total
> flying time, then I agree with that.
Alan, I record it in my pilot log book after each flight. Each flight also
notates the ending Hobbs time. When I was flight training, the plane did
not know what "Tach Time" was so I continue to use the same system.
>
> If you do oil changes, for example on 50 hours intervals, do you use hobbs
> time or tach time? When you log engine time, do you use hobbs or
> tach......
> I would suggest that standard practice is to use tach for either of the
> above. Again, only place I know where hobbs is used is when you want to
> know how long the flight was and it's directly related to the "clock" time
> from engine start up to engine shutdown.
I like simplicity. I use Hobbs time for everything. That includes
maintenance cycles for changing oil. If I change it a bit early as compared
to tach time, I should be helping my engine live longer. Idle time
particularly for warm up is important especially in the winter months. I
would not think it would be good to just act as if it did not matter.
However, it is a good idea to use a consistent time system so I don't
disagree with your approach.
>
> Most people log that as "their flight time", but use the tach for maint,
> etc.
>
> Alan
>
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 80 hours HOBBS time. ( 62 hours tach
time.)
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
Achieving a certain level of success in life is only important if you can
finally enjoy the level you've reached after you've reached it.
L R Helming, who thought of it last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to Crimp Flag Terminals? |
>
>
>Greetings,
>
>I have a handful of flag style fully insulated .250" quick connectors that
>look sort of like this:
>
>http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Amp/Web%20Data/520129.pdf
>
>Since they are fully insulated, they won't fit in my ratchet crimper
>tool. Even if I force it into the crimper, it looks like it will pretty
>much wipe out much of the insulation. The 90=B0 angle is just what I need
>if I can figure out how to crimp it. Any ideas?
Yup, buy the tool that was designed to install them.
I've run across a variety of variants in solderless
terminals, most of which take a mating die set in a
crimp tool for installation. As soon as one strays from
the path of PIDG, the future can become uncertain and
more expensive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powergenie - anyone using it? DIY ideas? |
On 1/29/06, Alan K. Adamson wrote:
> This is so curious.... I've never understood the want or need for a "hobbs"
> type meter in an airplane that you own. I suppose for 2 reasons. A) most
> of the engine monitors of which just about everyone has no a days has one
> built in; b) what information do they give you that you need. No maint that
> I know of uses hobbs time, they are all tach time. And if you just need to
> know how long the flight is, then get a cheap timer or wear a watch.
> This is just soo odd for me... Perhaps someone can help enlighten me on this
> topic?
Pretty simple reasons in my case, Alan. There is no traditional
(mechanical) tachometer installed, nor do I plan on installing one,
nor is 'tach time' recorded by the engine monitor. Sure, I could
write software for the latter but I'm quite lazy. So, in goes the
Hobbs... and I plan to log Hobbs time for everything (flight time,
engine time, prop time).
I plan to install a VDO oil pressure sender with aux 'low pressure
warning' contacts to kick the Hobbs on/off... however, I was forwarded
a link to this "magical" power lug with 3 wires stickin' out of it and
figured I'd throw it to the wolves on this list.
That's all the enlightenment I got!
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
As I understand ANR, it blocks the low freq portion of the noise problem and
your passive catches everthing above that. The low freq stuff is not
affected by the passive noise reduction. A good helmet has great ear cup
seals, and a seal around the edge of the helmet to act as a first layer of
defense. This catches all but the low stuff.
ANR is just the icing on the cake, it aint the whole cake.
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: helmet issues
>
> Jim Stone wrote:
>
>> For those considering a helmet, Flight suits offers active noise
>> canceling
>> for your helmet. I personally would rather have thousand dollars in a
>> helmet than a thousand in a set of Bose.
>
> I haven't tried their active noise reduction. My experience with ANR
> headsets is that they lack the same level of passive noise reduction
> needed to protect your hearing. (ANR only takes out the low frequencies
> which do not cause hearing loss.) Does the ANR still preserve the
> passive noise reduction?
>
> And then there is the added complexity with its attendant reduction in
> reliability.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter11(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Brian,
Any leads on a helmet-mounted display a civilian could acquire? When I left
the Pentagon in Aug '88 they were still in R&D status - had some "good
enough" stuff available, but the "developers" hadn't convinced the
"operators and bean-counters". Army AH-1 Apache's have good stuff fairly
recently.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: helmet issues
>
> David Carter wrote:
>
>> Brian, my helmet simply has a snap on each side for attaching the elastic
>> strap on the visor. I can unsnap the clear and snap on the colored visor
>> when needed. I use the clear most of the time, for bird protection, with
>> sunglasses underneath when needed, so don't really need the tinted visor.
>
> Ah, you must be wearing the HGU-55. That is the more popular helmet than
> the older (and clunkier) HGU-33 I wear. The HGU-33 I wear has the
> tension knob that controls the visor.
>
>> In combat in 1967 up "north" in Package 6, one day I told myself the
>> visor
>> was bulletproof - I no longer suffered anxiety rolling in on a heavily
>> defended tgt. Prior to that I worried a bit about a 37 or 57mm in the
>> face.
>> Piece of cake after I put on my bullet proof visor. Now the biggest
>> threat
>> is buzzards, snow geese, and other large "mm" birds. Visor is real
>> protection in event of a birdstrike, not just make believe.
>
> I combat you have to tell yourself something or you won't be able to
> make yourself go.
>
>> Hey, we are on the "Lectric list" - Sorry for being "off topic". Will
>> Cc:
>> the RV list.
>
> This seems to be more about systems. The helmet is part of your
> communications and environmental systems. With an HMD (head-mounted
> display) it becomes part of your navigation and systems monitoring.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Following the thread:
One of our corespondents is correct - check with local ham club.
Some old duffer witrh an antenna analyzer (SWR don't tell you everything)
will probably come out for the curiosity, test to the nth and offer some
interesting antenna information.
Hams have been swamped in latter years by Japanese black boxes
and the single guy can't compete - antennas are another story. Some of the
best are homebrew and one tenth the cost.
The analyzer is delicate and easily misapplied. Bob won't be
loaning his out for long - the cost to repair within guidelines is
prohibitive.
Thass that.
Cheers, Ferg
PS While this list is amazing for the info in it, there's a lot of
misinformation hidden in some messages. An amateur is a professional who
doesn't get paid - unlike professional pallbearers, etc..................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hardened Windshield |
Thank you, David,
I think it's just the ticket
Ferg
PS ....Brian - might even stick it on your visor(s)?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter11(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
|
| For 3M films, go to
| http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/
|
| The "breakage protection" films are listed under "Safety and Security
| Films" - At the link above, go to the left column and click "Products",
then
| "Residential" (or probably any of them) and click
| "3M Scotchshield Safety & Security Films" link after reading the blurb.
|
| David
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
| To:
| Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:34 AM
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
|
|
| >
| > Cheers,
| > On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
| > Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
| > which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools
| > (and
| > birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
| > Ferg
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Six New Email Lists / Forums At Matronics! |
Dear Listers,
Its my pleasure to announce the addition of six new Email List / Forums to the
aviation line up at Matronics! These new lists support all the usual features
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To sign up for any or all of the new Lists, surf over to the Matronics Email List
Subscription Form and follow the instructions:
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Don't forget to check out the All New Web BBS Forum now available along with all
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Matt Dralle
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
David Carter wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> Any leads on a helmet-mounted display a civilian could acquire? When I left
> the Pentagon in Aug '88 they were still in R&D status - had some "good
> enough" stuff available, but the "developers" hadn't convinced the
> "operators and bean-counters". Army AH-1 Apache's have good stuff fairly
> recently.
It all depends on what you want to do and how much resolution you need.
If you want to cook up your own HMD for your aircraft, go look at Micro
Optical Corp.
http://www.microopticalcorp.com/
Their display is about the size of a boom mic and offers VGA resolution
(640x480). Certainly you could put your PFD or engine data on there and
not have to look in the cockpit. It should be easy to mount on a helmet.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: helmet issues |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>> And they do have intercoms in the Chinese aircraft. It is just that they
>> use vacuum tubes. (True!)
>
> I've read that vacuum tubes are not affected by EMP, like
> transistors are.
Well, they are affected but they recover without dying.
OTOH there is a company that manufactures an EMP pulse detector that
acts fast enough to apply clamp voltages to your solid state gear. Get a
couple of those and you can have a high tech solution to the problem.
And if you are worried about EMP, make sure you have at least one
old-fashioned mechanical magneto.
All kidding aside, the Chinese don't seem to be strongly motivated to
change. The CJ6A still has a vacuum-tube ADF with mechanically rotating
loop antenna, a four-channel crystal-controlled VHF comm, and a slaved
heading indicator that uses a rotating magnetic compass to provide its
magnetic heading reference (the magnets on the compass card are BIG so
there is enough force to rotate the synchro resolver). The latter uses a
vacuum-tube synchro amplifier. And all this stuff is powered by
dynamotors and rotary inverters. The turn-on surge is about 40A at 28V. :-)
But the stuff works really well.
Oh, and it isn't light. The aircraft wiring harness weighs 110 pounds.
The ADF antenna is 25 pounds. The ADF electronics box is 40 lbs. Each
control head is about 10 lbs. I could go on and on but you get the point.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to Crimp Flag Terminals? |
Hi Dennis,
If you have a pair of the crimpers shown in the attached (poorly focused)
photos, they can be modified to crimp the flag type terminals that you have.
I used a Dremel tool to create a centred groove in the tip as shown in the
photo. I then used a small diameter chain saw file to finish out the groove
to a good diameter (radius) for crimping flags.
I got the crimper tool from Cleaveland Tools for $12.00 a few years ago.
I hope the photos give enough info. If not email me for more info.
Jim in Kelowna The 6a wings are on but not bolted yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to Crimp Flag Terminals?
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I have a handful of flag style fully insulated .250" quick connectors that
> look sort of like this:
>
> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Amp/Web%20Data/520129.pdf
>
> Since they are fully insulated, they won't fit in my ratchet crimper tool.
> Even if I force it into the crimper, it looks like it will pretty much
> wipe out much of the insulation. The 90=B0 angle is just what I need if I
> can figure out how to crimp it. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Johnson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
Put it on the glare shield under whatever material (leather, cloth, etc.)
you plan to use.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | MFJ-259B antenna analyzer |
There are 6 MFJ-259B analyzers on Ebay right now
with buy it now prices less than I paid for my MFJ-259A
6 years ago. See item number 5857318864
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> analyzer |
| Subject: | Re: EBay rip offs was MFJ-259B antenna analyzer |
Bob & Listers,
I'd be VERY leary about bidding on the item below. The seller wants
payment only by Western Union. This is the classic ploy of a rip off artist
who has high jacked the ligitemite account of an honest EBay seller. Any
time you see payment only by Western Union, be suspicious. Ask the seller
some questions. Ask if you can come over to see the item in person. If it's
a scammer, he'll dodge and hedge.
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>There are 6 MFJ-259B analyzers on Ebay right now
>with buy it now prices less than I paid for my MFJ-259A
>6 years ago. See item number 5857318864
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> analyzer |
| Subject: | Re: EBay rip offs was MFJ-259B antenna analyzer |
Listers,
I may have been premature with my last post. I note that the seller will
also accept PayPal and major credit cards, so this may well be a legitimate
auction. However, as an EBay member who has recently had his own account
high jacked, I'm very leery of auctions where Western Union is offered.
Other scam tip offs are a willingness to sell world wide and a very
attractive shipping policy.
When an account is high jacked, the EBay member who's account is used,
has no idea that the items (which will be vapor ware) have been listed to
his account.
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>There are 6 MFJ-259B analyzers on Ebay right now
>with buy it now prices less than I paid for my MFJ-259A
>6 years ago. See item number 5857318864
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | transponder gets into comm transceiver |
>Comments/Questions: Bob, the reception on my KX-155 transceiver is garbled
>by the interrogation responses from my KX-76 transponder. The correlation
>is unambiguous... the interference is only noted when the reception is
>unsquelched by a transmission from another station and the transponder
>interrogation response light is lit; additionally the problem disappears
>if I put the transponder in STBY. I checked grounds and they seem
>good. I've already had the transponder serviced once, and replaced it
>once. Seems like anything I do to it corrects the problem for a short
>time, then it comes back again. Any thoughts? I've got a Velleman
>oscilloscope and an EE background, so I should be able to do a "deep dive"
>on this and get the dang thing fixed. Thanks, Dave D
This is most likely an RFI problem. The transponder talks
to the ground in a stream of short (.5 uS) pulses that
encode your squawk and altitude. While average power from the
transponder is low (well under 1W) the peak power can be 100W
or more.
I'd look for bad connector in transponder coax that may be
radiating the interior of the aircraft. Is this a new condition
or has it existed since day-one for the installation? You
might need to reposition the transponder antenna. Check it's
installation too. Dismount, clean the bonding areas under the
mounting hardware and re-install.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
Mark,
That may be a great idea!
Thanks,
Bob
On 1/30/06, Mark & Lisa wrote:
>
> Put it on the glare shield under whatever material (leather, cloth, etc.)
> you plan to use.
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Downside to powering headsets with ships power? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I have 2 Lightspeed headsets will be using on our Europa.
Is there any downside using regulated ships power to run them?
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hardened Windshield |
The following is an inquiry and subsequent response from 3M regarding
their product being used on windshields as added bird impact protection:
> Has this product been tested on General Aviation aircraft windshields as
> a viable protection against impact damage and cockpit penetration by
> inflight bird collisions?
Thank you for contacting 3M. We appreciate your interest in our
products. Our products have been tested for the application you describe
and we currently do not manufacture/market a product, which would meet
your needs.
Regards,
Thomas
3M Building Safety Solutions Department
Http://www.3M.com/windowfilm
1-800-480-1704
David Carter wrote:
>
> For 3M films, go to
> http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/
>
> The "breakage protection" films are listed under "Safety and Security
> Films" - At the link above, go to the left column and click "Products", then
> "Residential" (or probably any of them) and click
> "3M Scotchshield Safety & Security Films" link after reading the blurb.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:34 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
>
>
>
>>
>>Cheers,
>> On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
>> Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
>>which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools
>>(and
>>birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
>>Ferg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Hardened Windshield |
Sounds like the standard run from aviation liability to me.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J.
Mcculley
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
The following is an inquiry and subsequent response from 3M regarding
their product being used on windshields as added bird impact protection:
> Has this product been tested on General Aviation aircraft windshields as
> a viable protection against impact damage and cockpit penetration by
> inflight bird collisions?
Thank you for contacting 3M. We appreciate your interest in our
products. Our products have been tested for the application you describe
and we currently do not manufacture/market a product, which would meet
your needs.
Regards,
Thomas
3M Building Safety Solutions Department
Http://www.3M.com/windowfilm
1-800-480-1704
David Carter wrote:
>
> For 3M films, go to
> http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/
>
> The "breakage protection" films are listed under "Safety and Security
> Films" - At the link above, go to the left column and click "Products",
then
> "Residential" (or probably any of them) and click
> "3M Scotchshield Safety & Security Films" link after reading the blurb.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:34 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
>
>
>
>>
>>Cheers,
>> On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
>> Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
>>which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools
>>(and
>>birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
>>Ferg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Hardened Windshield |
Tell him you have a $10,000,000 order, and ask if he would like to run it
past his supervisor before writing you off.
Dave Morris
At 10:49 AM 1/30/2006, you wrote:
>
>Sounds like the standard run from aviation liability to me.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J.
>Mcculley
>Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:30 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
>
>
>
>
>The following is an inquiry and subsequent response from 3M regarding
>their product being used on windshields as added bird impact protection:
>
> > Has this product been tested on General Aviation aircraft windshields as
> > a viable protection against impact damage and cockpit penetration by
> > inflight bird collisions?
>
>Thank you for contacting 3M. We appreciate your interest in our
>products. Our products have been tested for the application you describe
>and we currently do not manufacture/market a product, which would meet
>your needs.
>
>Regards,
>Thomas
>3M Building Safety Solutions Department
>Http://www.3M.com/windowfilm
>1-800-480-1704
>
>
>David Carter wrote:
>
> >
> > For 3M films, go to
> > http://www.3m.com/us/arch_construct/scpd/windowfilm/
> >
> > The "breakage protection" films are listed under "Safety and Security
> > Films" - At the link above, go to the left column and click "Products",
>then
> > "Residential" (or probably any of them) and click
> > "3M Scotchshield Safety & Security Films" link after reading the blurb.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:34 AM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardened Windshield
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >> On the subject of birdstrikes and helmets:
> >> Didn't I see a TV ad for a plastic layer to add to glass/whatever
> >>which renders it virtually impervious to baseball bats, robbers' tools
> >>(and
> >>birdstrikes)? Might be worth searching........
> >>Ferg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
January 19, 2006 - January 30, 2006
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fi