Commander-Archive.digest.vol-de
October 27, 2008 - November 06, 2008
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Tom, did
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Tom,
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter?- Di
d you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fue
l servo?
-
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff
.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same
inside diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two
places. I just replaced the lines from the flow divider to the
cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside
diameter? Did you replace those on both sides of the flow divider
(spider), and the fuel servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the
new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the
RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to
lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while
in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up
on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
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3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Peter;
The youtube you sent is not my airplane, it looks like it has slimline
nacelles, not bathtub ones, however the next youtube of a take off,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSe8CKyki7U&feature=related is mine before I
got it painted. Back when Chris had the site, I also had one of a low pass
at the same airport.
No more than I fly mine I probably should sell it but its my Linus's
blanket, I can go get a "God's eye" view and "restoreth my soul" and I feel
better, so plan on just keeping it. I fly it up to Van Wert, OH. just about
every year for a family reunion and take lots of rides. This year took an
Amish family (an acquaintance of my brother) for their first and maybe only
flight. Maybe someday we can get together.
God Bless, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: ebay 224HA
>
>
> Sorry Don, I mixed up...
>
> Where is this airplane anyways? I can't find it on ebay... is it already
> gone?
>
> I did say, quote: "I think"... the reason being that an "ACA125" user
> posted a video commenting that it was "your" 560E and signed as "N224HA
> 560E"...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDdTBQlgIg
>
> anyway, I confused you mixing both 560Es... sorry again! the funny thing
> though, is that in Matronics Archives from last year, a certain
> "skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net" signed as "Brent - N224HA"
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-get.cgi?Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci
>
> and on other photos of N224HA posted on the web Brent was talking about
> his "lost love"...
>
> so does that mean he bought it back? or that was actually the seller's
> email?
>
> very interesting...
>
> [quote="dongirod"]Now you've done it Peter.
>
> NO it's not mine!
>
> Mine is N2707B S# 555
>
> Don
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210464#210464
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8:33 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Thanks Tom.
-
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a flowdivid
er/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air cooled en
gine)-And-are-more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.-
-
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on som
e of them,-it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then
out.- If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the to
p of the engine and then down.- Either way, cooling appears greatly reduc
ed during climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
-
As-Ive seen it.
1.- larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio-during operation
, and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV.- they are bet
ter, however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed
.- Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of t
he pump on shutdown.- this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles
to zero...
-
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptibl
e to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster.- At higher flowrates (ri
ch) the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rat
o- and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle.- This is more of an is
sue on climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like clos
ed cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)).- Modern fuellines in t
hese situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
-
3.- for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different leng
ths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important.- there a
re different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important.-)- If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami i
njectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
-
Just some thoughts.
-
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
-
-
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same insid
e diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I j
ust replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
-
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter?- Di
d you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fue
l servo?
-
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff
.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
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atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BrightLine Bags Pilot Flight Bag |
| From: | "BrightLine" <info(at)brightlinebags.com> |
Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to write and thank everybody who bought a Flight Bag from us a couple of months back. I hope that the bag is working out better than you had hoped. As an FYI, the bags are now black and have a few changes to them. As always, if you have any comments about the bag, I would love to hear them. Thanks especially to John V and Keith G for the support. I have included a link to our online demo and a photo if you are interested. http://brightlinebags.ipower.com/videopage.html. Thanks again for your support!!
Bryan
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Don,
We really are all glad you enjoy your bird and that you are planning to keep it;
I have indeed seen that take off and the low pass on youtube; what I specially
like is the sound track! too often music is added and really empties a lot
of the experience...
I would love to see and fly in your 560E, I have not flown in an Aero Commander
since 1982... even though I fly on light twins for work 3-4 times a year in the
tropics.
If you want to see a 'young' man in heaven and truly happy, please let me know
when you come to Van Wert; a 2 hour drive will be a breeze for such a joy! I sure
hope I'll be around! I travel a lot... what time of the year do you visit
your folks?
Don, just knowing there is a possibility that I fly in an Aero Commander one of
these days has lifted up my spirit!
I would certainly enjoy meeting you too,
Best regards,
Peter
dongirod wrote:
> Peter;
>
> The youtube you sent is not my airplane, it looks like it has slimline
> nacelles, not bathtub ones, however the next youtube of a take off,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSe8CKyki7U&feature=related is mine before I
> got it painted. Back when Chris had the site, I also had one of a low pass
> at the same airport.
>
> No more than I fly mine I probably should sell it but its my Linus's
> blanket, I can go get a "God's eye" view and "restoreth my soul" and I feel
> better, so plan on just keeping it. I fly it up to Van Wert, OH. just about
> every year for a family reunion and take lots of rides. This year took an
> Amish family (an acquaintance of my brother) for their first and maybe only
> flight. Maybe someday we can get together.
>
> God Bless, Don
>
>
>
>
> ---
--------
560 Dreamer
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of
a flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an
air cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of
volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl
inlets on some of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to
top and then out. If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool
air to the top of the engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears
greatly reduced during climbout unless there are some big cown-vents
downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during
operation, and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV.
they are better, however on climbout as there is less pressure losses
and heat absorbed. Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back
to the inlet of the pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the
pressure at the nozzles to zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are
susceptible to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher
flowrates (rich) the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher
vapor/liquid rato and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This
is more of an issue on climbout on engines with poor cooling for
whatever reason (like closed cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed
(airflow)). Modern fuellines in these situations are insulated (just
like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the
different lengths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes
important. there are different pressure losses in each leg. (which
makes GAMI's all the more important. ) If you want to save yourself the
recurring cost of Gami injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced
with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of
the same inside diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded
in two places. I just replaced the lines from the flow divider to the
cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM
Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same
Inside diameter? Did you replace those on both sides of the flow
divider (spider), and the fuel servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM
Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the
new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the
RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to
lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while
in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up
on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the EGTs for t
hose cylilnders that had the new lines welded.- If they are running withi
n a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job welding.- SS lines
with anything less than 130 thou. diam-are extremely hard to weld without
causing an "orifice" at the weldsite.-
-
-Also, I doubt that he-annealed the new weld, which will make the heat
affected zone-more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he treated the weld
.- (a smoky acetylene torch for- 2 minutes would be sufficient.
-
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you lousy parts.
You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on your AC.
-
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
-
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a flowdivid
er/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air cooled en
gine)-And-are-more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.-
-
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on som
e of them,-it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then
out.- If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the to
p of the engine and then down.- Either way, cooling appears greatly reduc
ed during climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
-
As-Ive seen it.
1.- larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio-during operation
, and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV.- they are bet
ter, however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed
.- Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of t
he pump on shutdown.- this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles
to zero...
-
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptibl
e to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster.- At higher flowrates (ri
ch) the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rat
o- and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle.- This is more of an is
sue on climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like clos
ed cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)).- Modern fuellines in t
hese situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
-
3.- for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different leng
ths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important.- there a
re different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important.-)- If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami i
njectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
-
Just some thoughts.
-
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
-
-
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same insid
e diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I j
ust replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
-
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter?- Di
d you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fue
l servo?
-
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff
.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
I do not yet have engine monitors but they are on the wish list.
Well he was out of the business and already sold the STC and as far as I
was concerned I was happy to receive the lines from him even if they had
to be tweaked by an expensive AME who did in fact anneal the welds, good
point.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the
EGTs for those cylilnders that had the new lines welded. If they are
running within a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job
welding. SS lines with anything less than 130 thou. diam are extremely
hard to weld without causing an "orifice" at the weldsite.
Also, I doubt that he annealed the new weld, which will make
the heat affected zone more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he
treated the weld. (a smoky acetylene torch for 2 minutes would be
sufficient.
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you
lousy parts. You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on
your AC.
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM
Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are
typical of a flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side
downstream of an air cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines
that have a lot of volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of
the cowl inlets on some of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from
bottom to top and then out. If not then there is a big air-dam that
deflects cool air to the top of the engine and then down. Either way,
cooling appears greatly reduced during climbout unless there are some
big cown-vents downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio
during operation, and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the
FDV. they are better, however on climbout as there is less pressure
losses and heat absorbed. Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps
fuel back to the inlet of the pump on shutdown. this immediately drops
the pressure at the nozzles to zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker
starts but are susceptible to vapor lock because they absorb heat
faster. At higher flowrates (rich) the delta-P loss in these lines may
result in a higher vapor/liquid rato and thus a poorer spray patter at
the nozzle. This is more of an issue on climbout on engines with poor
cooling for whatever reason (like closed cowlvents, or just reduced
airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these situations are insulated
(just like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more)
the different lengths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes
important. there are different pressure losses in each leg. (which
makes GAMI's all the more important. ) If you want to save yourself the
recurring cost of Gami injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced
with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM
Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they
were of the same inside diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be
welded in two places. I just replaced the lines from the flow divider to
the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM
Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of
the same Inside diameter? Did you replace those on both sides of the
flow divider (spider), and the fuel servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher
wrote:
From: Tom Fisher
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP
Engine RPM Fluctuation
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the
new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the
RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to
lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while
in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up
on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Barry Home" <don.barry(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
MR. RPM is out of business?? I wonder whatever happened to that AC they were
playing around with the water-cooled Orenda engines.
Don
Houston TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
I do not yet have engine monitors but they are on the wish list.
Well he was out of the business and already sold the STC and as far as I was
concerned I was happy to receive the lines from him even if they had to be
tweaked by an expensive AME who did in fact anneal the welds, good point.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the EGTs for
those cylilnders that had the new lines welded. If they are running within
a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job welding. SS lines with
anything less than 130 thou. diam are extremely hard to weld without causing
an "orifice" at the weldsite.
Also, I doubt that he annealed the new weld, which will make the heat
affected zone more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he treated the weld.
(a smoky acetylene torch for 2 minutes would be sufficient.
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you lousy parts.
You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on your AC.
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com> robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a
flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air
cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on some
of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out.
If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the top of the
engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears greatly reduced during
climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during operation, and
on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV. they are better,
however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed.
Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of the
pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to
zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptible
to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher flowrates (rich)
the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rato
and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This is more of an issue on
climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like closed
cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these
situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different lengths
of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important. there are
different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important. ) If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami
injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside
diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just
replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com> robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did
you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel
servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
I am not sure that I remember the Orenda story correctly, Don, but folks on
this list know a lot more about it than I do. Apparently it ran out of money
and / or there wasn't enough push in Canada at the time to complete the job
to certification. Perhaps someone could enlighten us, but it is a topic that
has been discussed until there was a grove in the ground. :-)
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Barry
Home
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
MR. RPM is out of business?? I wonder whatever happened to that AC they were
playing around with the water-cooled Orenda engines.
Don
Houston TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
I do not yet have engine monitors but they are on the wish list.
Well he was out of the business and already sold the STC and as far as I was
concerned I was happy to receive the lines from him even if they had to be
tweaked by an expensive AME who did in fact anneal the welds, good point.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the EGTs for
those cylilnders that had the new lines welded. If they are running within
a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job welding. SS lines with
anything less than 130 thou. diam are extremely hard to weld without causing
an "orifice" at the weldsite.
Also, I doubt that he annealed the new weld, which will make the heat
affected zone more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he treated the weld.
(a smoky acetylene torch for 2 minutes would be sufficient.
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you lousy parts.
You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on your AC.
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a
flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air
cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on some
of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out.
If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the top of the
engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears greatly reduced during
climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during operation, and
on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV. they are better,
however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed.
Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of the
pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to
zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptible
to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher flowrates (rich)
the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rato
and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This is more of an issue on
climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like closed
cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these
situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different lengths
of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important. there are
different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important. ) If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami
injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside
diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just
replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did
you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel
servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
| From: | craigk391(at)sbcglobal.net |
VGhlIFNUQydzIHdlcmUgcGlja2VkIHVwIGJ5IGEgZ3V5IGluIEZMLiBUaGUgbGluayBzdGlsbCB3
b3Jrcw0KDQpjcmFpZyANCg0KU2VudCB2aWEgQmxhY2tCZXJyeSBieSBBVCZUDQoNCi0tLS0tT3Jp
Z2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiRG9uIEJhcnJ5IEhvbWUiIDxkb24uYmFycnlAc2Jj
Z2xvYmFsLm5ldD4NCg0KRGF0ZTogVHVlLCAyOCBPY3QgMjAwOCAyMzowMDoyNiANClRvOiA8Y29t
bWFuZGVyLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBDb21tYW5kZXItTGlzdDog
QUMtNjgwIEZMUCBFbmdpbmUgUlBNIEZsdWN0dWF0aW9uDQoNCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBhIG11bHRpLXBh
cnQgbWVzc2FnZSBpbiBNSU1FIGZvcm1hdC4NCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Dick MacCoon's old site is still available (actually the domain is for sale)
http://www.mrrpm.com/
it still has a video on the "promissing" (2002) new aluminum V8 water cooled engines
which were supposed to be cheaper and fuel efficient...
RPM Commander LLC is still in business and selling a couple of 560Fs
http://www.rpmcommander.com/
To reach: RPM COMMANDER LLC (For STC services)
c/o Paul Gendron
1401 N. Riverside Drive Suite 607
Pompano Beach, FLorida, USA 33062
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210930#210930
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Don-
The engine technology was picked up by an outfit called Trace Engines.
(www.traceengines.com)
They had a stand set up at the races this year at Reno. We stopped by to
chat with them- and they brought around a fellow who has purchased the
original Orenda certification test airplane. He has a second outfit that he
explained was working to STC the 685 with these engines mounted. He claimed
that they were "months away from an STC" to hang the V8s on 685s..
That Mr. RPM test bed commander is currently on the ground in Midland TX and
according to some sources I checked with- it hasn't been flying in some
time..
Like all things in GA- seems to be more heat than energy being generated on
that project. ;-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Barry
Home
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
MR. RPM is out of business?? I wonder whatever happened to that AC they were
playing around with the water-cooled Orenda engines.
Don
Houston TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
I do not yet have engine monitors but they are on the wish list.
Well he was out of the business and already sold the STC and as far as I was
concerned I was happy to receive the lines from him even if they had to be
tweaked by an expensive AME who did in fact anneal the welds, good point.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the EGTs for
those cylilnders that had the new lines welded. If they are running within
a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job welding. SS lines with
anything less than 130 thou. diam are extremely hard to weld without causing
an "orifice" at the weldsite.
Also, I doubt that he annealed the new weld, which will make the heat
affected zone more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he treated the weld.
(a smoky acetylene torch for 2 minutes would be sufficient.
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you lousy parts.
You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on your AC.
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a
flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air
cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on some
of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out.
If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the top of the
engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears greatly reduced during
climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during operation, and
on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV. they are better,
however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed.
Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of the
pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to
zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptible
to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher flowrates (rich)
the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rato
and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This is more of an issue on
climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like closed
cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these
situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different lengths
of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important. there are
different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important. ) If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami
injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside
diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just
replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com> robison
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did
you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel
servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well I do hope that they get some traction with this. Adams shutting down,
Eclipse not going anywhere fast, are all bad news for GA. A success story
would be a nice change. I, for one, would be very hesitant to load up a 685
with family and launch them with Orendas into the night over the Rockies but
their STC with the ag planes do show that it can be a reliable powerplant.
Having a couple of successful races under their belt can do wonders.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Don-
The engine technology was picked up by an outfit called Trace Engines.
(www.traceengines.com)
They had a stand set up at the races this year at Reno. We stopped by to
chat with them- and they brought around a fellow who has purchased the
original Orenda certification test airplane. He has a second outfit that he
explained was working to STC the 685 with these engines mounted. He claimed
that they were "months away from an STC" to hang the V8s on 685s..
That Mr. RPM test bed commander is currently on the ground in Midland TX and
according to some sources I checked with- it hasn't been flying in some
time..
Like all things in GA- seems to be more heat than energy being generated on
that project. ;-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Barry
Home
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
MR. RPM is out of business?? I wonder whatever happened to that AC they were
playing around with the water-cooled Orenda engines.
Don
Houston TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
I do not yet have engine monitors but they are on the wish list.
Well he was out of the business and already sold the STC and as far as I was
concerned I was happy to receive the lines from him even if they had to be
tweaked by an expensive AME who did in fact anneal the welds, good point.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Well, Next time you fly, once youve leaned for cruise, check the EGTs for
those cylilnders that had the new lines welded. If they are running within
a few degrees of the others, then he did a good job welding. SS lines with
anything less than 130 thou. diam are extremely hard to weld without causing
an "orifice" at the weldsite.
Also, I doubt that he annealed the new weld, which will make the heat
affected zone more brittle than the rest. Ask him how he treated the weld.
(a smoky acetylene torch for 2 minutes would be sufficient.
Bottom line, Mr.RPM should have is axxx chewed for sending you lousy parts.
You shouldnt have to do his Acceptance test procedures on your AC.
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 2:17 PM
Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Thanks Tom.
Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a
flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air
cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.
Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on some
of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out.
If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the top of the
engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears greatly reduced during
climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream.
As Ive seen it.
1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during operation, and
on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV. they are better,
however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed.
Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of the
pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to
zero...
2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptible
to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher flowrates (rich)
the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rato
and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This is more of an issue on
climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like closed
cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these
situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck).
3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different lengths
of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important. there are
different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more
important. ) If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami
injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles.
Just some thoughts.
wer
former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside
diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just
replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did
you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel
servo?
wer
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher wrote:
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM
I had the same surging problem on mine.
I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new
lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging
problem.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
>
> Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM
> Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is
> unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some
info:
>
> 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
> turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
> 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
> fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as
the
> aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
> 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
> always
> 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
> flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't
want
> to
> stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
> 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
> and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
> 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
> un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in
> level
> flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I
> paid close
> attention.
> 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
> affect on the engine
>
> My thoughts:
>
> 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
> carburetor that is unsteady
> 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
> lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
> 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
> I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on
> climb)
> and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
>
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had
this
> type problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
> 850-217-5185
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Afternoon Robert,
I have a friend who was involved as a mechanic with that project. He said it
was a beautiful running engine and that everything worked just as they had
expected it would.
Unfortunately, the interest in converting from a Turbine to a piston was
just not there.
I asked many of my King Air driver friends what they thought. Everyone of
them said there was no way they would ever go back to flying a piston. I got the
impression that it was an ego thing. They had no interest at all in the
economy or performance gains that might be achieved. They just wanted to arrive
in a turbine powered flying machine!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:22:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
That Mr. RPM test bed commander is currently on the ground in Midland TX and
according to some sources I checked with- it hasn't been flying in some
time..
Like all things in GA- seems to be more heat than energy being generated on
that project. ;-)
Robert S. Randazzo
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well, Old Bob, there is the safety of having much less moving parts in a
turbine, too. And the moving parts in a turbine just spin, they don't
accellerate, stop, turn around, accellerate, stop, turn around, accellerate
thousands of times a minute either. Seems to me they have my vote on that.
However, going from an ageing Lycoming or Continental to an Orenda would be
a favorite for me. Provided they can last and win some races and endurance
rallies to increase their knowledge and capabilities of the engines.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Afternoon Robert,
I have a friend who was involved as a mechanic with that project. He said it
was a beautiful running engine and that everything worked just as they had
expected it would.
Unfortunately, the interest in converting from a Turbine to a piston was
just not there.
I asked many of my King Air driver friends what they thought. Everyone of
them said there was no way they would ever go back to flying a piston. I got
the impression that it was an ego thing. They had no interest at all in the
economy or performance gains that might be achieved. They just wanted to
arrive in a turbine powered flying machine!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:22:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
That Mr. RPM test bed commander is currently on the ground in Midland TX and
according to some sources I checked with- it hasn't been flying in some
time..
Like all things in GA- seems to be more heat than energy being generated on
that project. ;-)
Robert S. Randazzo
_____
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check
<http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001> out
Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, Owners will always go with what is most efficient and affordable
.- The exception to this was the market shift from turbo-props to light j
ets.- None of the operators wanted to trade the efficiency of thier turbo
props for the high initial and recurring costs of operating twin jets.-
But, given the choice, people (not just pilots) loved flying in Jets!- Wh
o cares if the cost of travel went up 20%.- You no doubt have noticed tha
t all the regionals (in the black) are running Props again.-
-
If you have an engine that has a TBO of 3500 to 5400 hrs, it could be made
by Briggs and Stratton and would still find a home.- The pilot is the las
t opinion heard.
-
Personally, I prefer a nice Big-Displacement, Geared, slow turning Piston.
-(560Fis my favorite)-why?- Efficiency.- There isn't a law that say
s you have to fly full throttle.- Use your propeller performance curve an
d POH-to tell you- your best cruise altitude and airspeed, and trim for
that.- Use MRCP to get in and out effectively and then rein-in your ego.
- There's nothing sexy about straight and level flight.
-
Hoover was cool....but he didnt pay for the plane or the gas.
-
wer
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 12:33 PM
Well, Old Bob, there is the safety of having much less moving parts in a tu
rbine, too. And the moving parts in a turbine just spin, they don't accelle
rate, stop, turn around, accellerate, stop, turn around, accellerate thousa
nds of times a minute either. Seems to me they have my vote on that. Howeve
r, going from an ageing Lycoming or Continental to an Orenda would be a fav
orite for me. Provided they can last and win some races and endurance ralli
es to increase their knowledge and capabilities of the engines.
-
Nico
-
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Afternoon Robert,
-
I have a friend who was involved as a mechanic with that project. He said i
t was a beautiful running engine and that everything worked just as they ha
d expected it would.
-
Unfortunately, the interest in converting from a Turbine to a piston was ju
st not there.
-
I asked many of my King Air driver friends what they thought. Everyone of t
hem said there was no way they would ever go back to flying a piston. I got
the impression that it was an ego thing. They had no interest at all in th
e economy or performance gains that might be achieved. They just wanted to
arrive in a turbine powered flying machine!
-
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
-
In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:22:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rsrandazz
o(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
-
That Mr. RPM test bed commander is currently on the ground in Midland TX an
d according to some sources I checked with- it hasn't- been flying in som
e time..
-
Like all things in GA- seems to be more heat than energy being generated on
that project.- ;-)
-
Robert S. Randazzo
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deal
s!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Evening Nico,
That is my feeling as well, but it just didn't seem to appeal to as many
folks as the developer had hoped. The big market was expected to be older
Turbine Commanders and King Airs. Those folks wanted nothing to do with it even
though the numbers worked out quite favorably.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 2:37:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Well, Old Bob, there is the safety of having much less moving parts in a
turbine, too. And the moving parts in a turbine just spin, they don't
accellerate, stop, turn around, accellerate, stop, turn around, accellerate thousands
of times a minute either. Seems to me they have my vote on that. However,
going from an ageing Lycoming or Continental to an Orenda would be a favorite
for
me. Provided they can last and win some races and endurance rallies to
increase their knowledge and capabilities of the engines.
Nico
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Afternoon wer,
It wasn't the paid pilots that made the observations that I noted, it was
the aircraft owners. I agree that somebody hauling freight or other non ego
possessing cargo will choose based on economics, but most of the bosses still
prefer turbines even when the numbers favor the Chevy knock off!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 3:15:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
drwer2(at)yahoo.com writes:
While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, Owners will always go with what is most efficient and affordable.
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Those folks wanted nothing to do with it even though the numbers
> worked out quite favorably.
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option. Since (to the best of my knowledge), no
STC/certification was ever achieved for those airplanes ,no significant
operating history exists, and no advertising was ever done in places
where corp owners would have seen it, I don't think the product ever mad
it out of the shadows. I also don't think that the engine would have
ever gained much momentum without some significant operational
experience. Corporate owners don't seem to be the type to pounce on a
major unproven powerplant option to me. Nico's point that a few Reno
win's would help put them on the map is valid, but they'd need a good
test fleet building hours to make it attractive to the target market.
I remember hearing that there were some significant problems with the
Commander test vehicle, but don't remember the specifics. Anyone else
know more than I do?
cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
EPI, Inc. designed and developed the engine mounting and structural integri
ty testing had a lot to do with the demise of the project.- Here is a lin
k to thier comments on the engine, etc.
-
http://www.epi-eng.com/aircraft_engine_conversions/additional_weight_consid
erations.htm#examples
-
willis Robison
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 3:54 PM
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Those folks wanted nothing to do with it even though the numbers
> worked out quite favorably.
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option. Since (to the best of my knowledge), no
STC/certification was ever achieved for those airplanes ,no significant
operating history exists, and no advertising was ever done in places
where corp owners would have seen it, I don't think the product ever mad
it out of the shadows. I also don't think that the engine would have
ever gained much momentum without some significant operational
experience. Corporate owners don't seem to be the type to pounce on a
major unproven powerplant option to me. Nico's point that a few Reno
win's would help put them on the map is valid, but they'd need a good
test fleet building hours to make it attractive to the target market.
I remember hearing that there were some significant problems with the
Commander test vehicle, but don't remember the specifics. Anyone else
know more than I do?
cheers,
Chris
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Barry Home" <don.barry(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
That's an excellent point. I spoke to one of my business friend's who
happens to be a Texas state senator. Apparently the folks at Trace have some
connections with the state gov't here. They (Texas) must have a "herd" of
King Airs - there's a study in progress looking at helping out on the STC
approval and doing conversions on the state planes. They said the numbers
he's seen on this are "compelling", and they like spending their $$$ within
the state. How knows? Maybe this will end up going somewhere?
Oddly enough, he also said these engines are considerable more quiet than an
air-cooled or a turbine. Any truth to that?
Don
Houston ,TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Afternoon wer,
It wasn't the paid pilots that made the observations that I noted, it was
the aircraft owners. I agree that somebody hauling freight or other non ego
possessing cargo will choose based on economics, but most of the bosses
still prefer turbines even when the numbers favor the Chevy knock off!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 3:15:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
drwer2(at)yahoo.com writes:
While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, Owners will always go with what is most efficient and affordable.
_____
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel
Deals!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Recip vs. turbine |
"While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with
transitioning to Turbines, "
I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or turbo,
but if I am ever in a life threating emergency, give me a high bypass
turbojet. They just hang together and produce power, lots and lots of
power, push it to the stops and keep it there, it may redline and need
changed on the ground but it will get you back to the hanger for the
engine change. Seems like I remember being told something like, 'the
last 10% of the throttle movement produces 90% of the power', do know,
in reverse the difference between 80% and 90% is very amazing on a snow
covered short runway, about a thousand feet on a DC-9, at max gross.
I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when they
encountered a very severe emergency, involving a 45 degree pitch-up on a
go around, airspeed dropped well below 100 knots. The engines were
firewalled and all indicator were pegged beyond the red line. Needless
to say they survived, but computer readout showed the engines produced
almost 100,000 lbs thrust, double the rating. Don't know why the fuel
controls let them get this high, maybe the low airspeed, not sure. The
engines were borascoped and not even changed. Try that with a recip
engine!
Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I have several
thousand hours in turbines and have never lost an engine or had an
emergency, a few minor problems yes, but never an emergency, more than I
can say with recips. A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to mind.
I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I am on
board, but I have always felt, turbines especially turbojets will take
much more abuse, and like the old Timex commercial, 'it keeps on
ticking'.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well, the video of the test Commander certainly sounds as if it is a quiet
ship. Didn't one of the guys on the list fly the test model for the TV spot?
Bill Lieff? I cannot recall exactly.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Barry
Home
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
That's an excellent point. I spoke to one of my business friend's who
happens to be a Texas state senator. Apparently the folks at Trace have some
connections with the state gov't here. They (Texas) must have a "herd" of
King Airs - there's a study in progress looking at helping out on the STC
approval and doing conversions on the state planes. They said the numbers
he's seen on this are "compelling", and they like spending their $$$ within
the state. How knows? Maybe this will end up going somewhere?
Oddly enough, he also said these engines are considerable more quiet than an
air-cooled or a turbine. Any truth to that?
Don
Houston ,TX
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Afternoon wer,
It wasn't the paid pilots that made the observations that I noted, it was
the aircraft owners. I agree that somebody hauling freight or other non ego
possessing cargo will choose based on economics, but most of the bosses
still prefer turbines even when the numbers favor the Chevy knock off!
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 3:15:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
drwer2(at)yahoo.com writes:
While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, Owners will always go with what is most efficient and affordable.
_____
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel
Deals!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Recip vs. turbine |
Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
"While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, "
I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or turbo, but if I am
ever in a life threating emergency, give me a high bypass turbojet. They
just hang together and produce power, lots and lots of power, push it to the
stops and keep it there, it may redline and need changed on the ground but
it will get you back to the hanger for the engine change. Seems like I
remember being told something like, 'the last 10% of the throttle movement
produces 90% of the power', do know, in reverse the difference between 80%
and 90% is very amazing on a snow covered short runway, about a thousand
feet on a DC-9, at max gross.
I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when they encountered a
very severe emergency, involving a 45 degree pitch-up on a go around,
airspeed dropped well below 100 knots. The engines were firewalled and all
indicator were pegged beyond the red line. Needless to say they survived,
but computer readout showed the engines produced almost 100,000 lbs thrust,
double the rating. Don't know why the fuel controls let them get this high,
maybe the low airspeed, not sure. The engines were borascoped and not even
changed. Try that with a recip engine!
Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I have several thousand
hours in turbines and have never lost an engine or had an emergency, a few
minor problems yes, but never an emergency, more than I can say with recips.
A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to mind.
I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I am on board, but I
have always felt, turbines especially turbojets will take much more abuse,
and like the old Timex commercial, 'it keeps on ticking'.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | peter bichier <peter.bichier(at)utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
On Oct 29, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Don Barry Home wrote:
> Oddly enough, he also said these engines are considerable more
> quiet than an air-cooled or a turbine. Any truth to that?
>
if you go to MrRPM's old site:
http://www.mrrpm.com/
and click "here" to see & hear the 1200 hp Commander Flight, the
video still works!
granted the commentator and music and hoop la spoils it but you can
still notice how quiet it is, they taxi and also have a clip of a
pass over.
but if that commander is not flying anymore...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Evening Chris,
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner
friends what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer was
that there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Chevy
design even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not find a
single owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not sure if
it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression was that the
Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was
surprised at the resistance I found.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Recip vs. turbine |
Modern turbine engines on FADECs, set to-emergency power, the control loo
p eliminates all but the EGT probes(TiT).- So the engines would produce a
s much power as the turbine section could handle, they would be VERY HOT in
deed.- No Inlet control, no torque control....nada.- As the Turbine inl
et temp maxed out, then the control would ramp back the fuel servos.- In
the meantime, you would get a ridiculous amount of power.
-
At least thats how its done on PWC and GE engines.- I dont know about RR
or BMW but Id guess the control laws are similar.
-
wer
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:51 PM
Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
-
-
"While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning t
o Turbines, "
-
I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or turbo, but if I am
ever in a life threating emergency, give me a high bypass turbojet.- The
y just hang together and produce power, lots and lots of power, push it to
the stops and keep it there, it may redline and need changed on the ground
but it will get you back to the hanger for the engine change.- Seems like
I remember being told something like, 'the last 10% of the throttle moveme
nt produces 90% of the power', do know, in reverse the difference-between
80% and 90% is very amazing on a snow covered short runway, about a thousa
nd feet on a DC-9, at max gross.
-
I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when they encountered a
very severe emergency, involving a 45 degree pitch-up on a go around,-ai
rspeed dropped well below 100 knots.- The engines were firewalled and all
indicator were pegged-beyond the red line.- Needless to say they survi
ved, but computer readout showed the engines produced almost 100,000 lbs th
rust, double the rating.- Don't know why the fuel controls let them get t
his high, maybe the low airspeed, not sure.- The engines were borascoped
and not even changed.- Try that with a recip engine!
-
Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I have-several thousand
hours in turbines and have never lost an engine or had an emergency, a few
minor problems yes, but never an emergency, more than I can say with recip
s.- A certain Turbo compounded-R-3350 comes to mind.
-
I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I am on board, but I
have always felt, turbines especially turbojets will take much more abuse,
and like the old Timex commercial, 'it keeps on ticking'.
-
Don
-
-
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Wing lost in flight |
This is an amazing YOU TUBE video.
Notlandung: Der beste Pilot ever! | chilloutzone.de - free games and
free fun
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
Modern turbine engines on FADECs, set to emergency power, the
control loop eliminates all but the EGT probes(TiT). So the engines
would produce as much power as the turbine section could handle, they
would be VERY HOT indeed. No Inlet control, no torque control....nada.
As the Turbine inlet temp maxed out, then the control would ramp back
the fuel servos. In the meantime, you would get a ridiculous amount of
power.
At least thats how its done on PWC and GE engines. I dont know
about RR or BMW but Id guess the control laws are similar.
wer
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:51 PM
Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
"While there may be a certain amount of ego associated
with transitioning to Turbines, "
I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip
or turbo, but if I am ever in a life threating emergency, give me a high
bypass turbojet. They just hang together and produce power, lots and
lots of power, push it to the stops and keep it there, it may redline
and need changed on the ground but it will get you back to the hanger
for the engine change. Seems like I remember being told something like,
'the last 10% of the throttle movement produces 90% of the power', do
know, in reverse the difference between 80% and 90% is very amazing on a
snow covered short runway, about a thousand feet on a DC-9, at max
gross.
I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines
when they encountered a very severe emergency, involving a 45 degree
pitch-up on a go around, airspeed dropped well below 100 knots. The
engines were firewalled and all indicator were pegged beyond the red
line. Needless to say they survived, but computer readout showed the
engines produced almost 100,000 lbs thrust, double the rating. Don't
know why the fuel controls let them get this high, maybe the low
airspeed, not sure. The engines were borascoped and not even changed.
Try that with a recip engine!
Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I
have several thousand hours in turbines and have never lost an engine or
had an emergency, a few minor problems yes, but never an emergency, more
than I can say with recips. A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to
mind.
I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because
I am on board, but I have always felt, turbines especially turbojets
will take much more abuse, and like the old Timex commercial, 'it keeps
on ticking'.
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was not
intended to compete with turbines.? They were replacements for the recip fleet.?
The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo Commander..? They
were also certified on the single otter, replacing the geared 1340.? jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression
was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Evening Chris,
?
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!
?
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner friends
what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer was that
there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Chevy design
even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not find a single
owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not sure if it would
have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression was that the Turbine
owners I knew would not buy it!
?
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was surprised
at the resistance I found.
?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
?
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cschuerm(at)cox.net
writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one.? I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Wing lost in flight |
I saw a model plane do that. That took guts and a clear head. I bet he
needed new underwear after that.
Great stuff, Tom.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Wing lost in flight
This is an amazing YOU TUBE video.
<http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html> Notlandung: Der beste
Pilot ever! | chilloutzone.de - free games and free fun
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
Modern turbine engines on FADECs, set to emergency power, the control loop
eliminates all but the EGT probes(TiT). So the engines would produce as
much power as the turbine section could handle, they would be VERY HOT
indeed. No Inlet control, no torque control....nada. As the Turbine inlet
temp maxed out, then the control would ramp back the fuel servos. In the
meantime, you would get a ridiculous amount of power.
At least thats how its done on PWC and GE engines. I dont know about RR or
BMW but Id guess the control laws are similar.
wer
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:51 PM
Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
"While there may be a certain amount of ego associated with transitioning to
Turbines, "
I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or turbo, but if I am
ever in a life threating emergency, give me a high bypass turbojet. They
just hang together and produce power, lots and lots of power, push it to the
stops and keep it there, it may redline and need changed on the ground but
it will get you back to the hanger for the engine change. Seems like I
remember being told something like, 'the last 10% of the throttle movement
produces 90% of the power', do know, in reverse the difference between 80%
and 90% is very amazing on a snow covered short runway, about a thousand
feet on a DC-9, at max gross.
I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when they encountered a
very severe emergency, involving a 45 degree pitch-up on a go around,
airspeed dropped well below 100 knots. The engines were firewalled and all
indicator were pegged beyond the red line. Needless to say they survived,
but computer readout showed the engines produced almost 100,000 lbs thrust,
double the rating. Don't know why the fuel controls let them get this high,
maybe the low airspeed, not sure. The engines were borascoped and not even
changed. Try that with a recip engine!
Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I have several thousand
hours in turbines and have never lost an engine or had an emergency, a few
minor problems yes, but never an emergency, more than I can say with recips.
A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to mind.
I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I am on board, but I
have always felt, turbines especially turbojets will take much more abuse,
and like the old Timex commercial, 'it keeps on ticking'.
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
3D=========================3
D===================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Engine Market |
| From: | "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com> |
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was not
intended to compete with turbines.? They were replacements for the recip fleet.?
The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo Commander..? They
were also certified on the single otter, replacing the geared 1340.? jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression
was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
Yes, but ...
While Mr. RPM was making headway with the Commander 685 installation, the major
launch customer was Stevens Beechcraft who was going to re-engine the KingAir
90 fleet.??? The KingAir installation suffered oil foaming and Mr. RPM was able
to solve the problem on his Commander before the team working the KingAir test
article did.? That was just one of the hurdles towards STC'ing the Orenda
as an engine replacement.
So yes, the Orenda was to be a turbine replacement.? Mr. RPM and I discussed the
improvements it would bring the Turbo Commander, though neither of us thought
anyone would really do that, the economics of overhaul cost was very attractive.
Judging from the opinions / observations on this topic, Stevens Beechcraft, who
projected at least 40 shipsets of engines, couldn't sell the idea in enough numbers
to make it work.
Was it the delay in certification?? Was it the Ratchet Theory of Aviation (can't
go backwards, only forwards)?? Was it turbine ego???
I have to put in with Mr. RPM in his statements that a turbine engine loses power
the minute it leaves Sea Level ISA (or its flat rating) where a turbo normalized
or supercharged piston engine will maintain Sea Level power well into the
'Teens or Twenties. providing far more power aloft.
However, there's something nice about the simplicity of pinwheels spinning on a
stick, isn't there?
I was hanging around Mr. RPM's test facility in Marina and Salinas, California
in the late 70s /early 80s and know that the then Thunder Engine (precursor to
the Orenda) flew on a Turbo Commander, had interest from Israel as an engine
for tanks and U.S. Customs for interceptor boats, so presumably that market still
exists for the Orenda -- but there's one major element we're not discussing.
AvGas in a boutique fuel and Jet-A, diesel or rotgut kerosene is global.?? Yes,
the Orenda could be set up for Jet-A but that would have been another long process.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing lost in flight |
Um, you are all aware that that was a CGI video, and not real, right?
The RC model pilot did a fantastic job though, Nico...I've seen that
video and it was great!
nico css wrote:
> I saw a model plane do that. That took guts and a clear head. I bet he
> needed new underwear after that.
> Great stuff, Tom.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom
> Fisher
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Wing lost in flight
>
> This is an amazing YOU TUBE video.
>
> Notlandung: Der beste Pilot ever! | chilloutzone.de - free games and
> free fun <http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html>
>
> Tom
>
> C-GISS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* willis robison
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:56 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
>
> Modern turbine engines on FADECs, set to emergency power, the
> control loop eliminates all but the EGT probes(TiT). So the
> engines would produce as much power as the turbine section could
> handle, they would be VERY HOT indeed. No Inlet control, no
> torque control....nada. As the Turbine inlet temp maxed out, then
> the control would ramp back the fuel servos. In the meantime, you
> would get a ridiculous amount of power.
>
> At least thats how its done on PWC and GE engines. I dont know
> about RR or BMW but Id guess the control laws are similar.
>
> wer
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/29/08, nico css //* wrote:
>
> From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:51 PM
>
> Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Don
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
>
>
>
>
>
> "While there may be a certain amount of ego associated
> with transitioning to Turbines, "
>
> I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or
> turbo, but if I am ever in a life threating emergency,
> give me a high bypass turbojet. They just hang together
> and produce power, lots and lots of power, push it to the
> stops and keep it there, it may redline and need changed
> on the ground but it will get you back to the hanger for
> the engine change. Seems like I remember being told
> something like, 'the last 10% of the throttle movement
> produces 90% of the power', do know, in reverse the
> difference between 80% and 90% is very amazing on a snow
> covered short runway, about a thousand feet on a DC-9, at
> max gross.
>
> I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when
> they encountered a very severe emergency, involving a 45
> degree pitch-up on a go around, airspeed dropped well
> below 100 knots. The engines were firewalled and all
> indicator were pegged beyond the red line. Needless to
> say they survived, but computer readout showed the engines
> produced almost 100,000 lbs thrust, double the rating.
> Don't know why the fuel controls let them get this high,
> maybe the low airspeed, not sure. The engines were
> borascoped and not even changed. Try that with a recip
> engine!
>
> Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I
> have several thousand hours in turbines and have never
> lost an engine or had an emergency, a few minor problems
> yes, but never an emergency, more than I can say with
> recips. A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to mind.
>
> I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I
> am on board, but I have always felt, turbines especially
> turbojets will take much more abuse, and like the old
> Timex commercial, 'it keeps on ticking'.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> *
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3568 (20081030) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Morning jb,
I have no doubt that what you say is true, but it was presented to the
Beechcraft world as a replacement engine for the King Air. A couple of my friends
have (now 'had'!) Turbo Commanders and it was also discussed in their world.
When it was discussed within those groups, the interest was as I reported.
No doubt other groups felt differently.
Since I am certain I will never be able to afford a King Air, Turbo
Commander, or even a non turboed Commander, the whole idea was and is to me, merely
an intellectual curiosity.
Like most wannabes, I am always interested in new ideas that may provide
better motive power than is now available. After watching the development of
automobile engine powered aircraft for many years, I have come to the point
where I still hope all the new thinkers well, but I fear there is no free lunch.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/30/2008 12:03:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes:
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines. They were replacements for the recip
fleet. The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo
Commander.. They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the geared
1340.
jb
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> After watching the development of automobile engine powered aircraft
> for many years, I have come to the point where I still hope all the
> new thinkers well, but I fear there is no free lunch.
Yup.... exactly.
I think the effort made by Honda a few years back was very telling of
the realities of aircraft engines. They announced that they were going
to undertake a well funded "clean slate" engine design. No
preconceptions on any aspect - everything would be evaluated. So, after
years of R&D and millions of dollars, what did some of the worlds best
engine engineers come up with???
A large bore, direct drive, 360 cid 4 cylinder air cooled opposed engine
that made around 180hp. Basicly, a clone of the Lycoming IO-360 but
prettier. Says a lot, eh?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Folks,
I have had some involvement (automotive) that had a bearing on the problems
of the Orenda, and some of the other efforts to "aerofy" automotive engines.
Although of different engineering origin, the recent technical (not
financial/management) problems of Thielert engines have been related to the
auto origins of the engine.
There are some interesting and virtually insoluble problems of physics with
the traditional firing order of a 90 degree V-8, but if you go to a "flat
plane" crank (as per competition V-8's) you get vibration that is
uncomfortable in an auto or an aircraft.
It's all a while ago, but a fading memory tells me that it is No.5 big end
that has a life measured in seconds, with any interruption of lubrication,
in the traditional crank/firing order, if we could do an Orenda with a flat
plane crank (as I believe might have been tried) and produce a solution to
the vibration, so that you didn't destroy the prop. or the surrounding
aeroplane, you would have a goer.
Again trusting to memory, there was a problem with moving cylinder sleeves
in the Orenda, the cost of re-design to eliminate this problem was probably
at least one nail in the coffin. Remember, "rules" for Ag. Engines are not
quite the same as for a "standard" cat. C.of A aeroplane.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
AC-500A ZK-DCF
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines. They were replacements for the recip
fleet. The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo
Commander.. They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the
geared 1340. jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my
impression was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Evening Chris,
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner
friends what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer was
that there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Chevy
design even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not find
a single owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not sure
if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression was that
the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was
surprised at the resistance I found.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
_____
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel
Deals! <http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001>
_____
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with
AOL News <http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well there have been some sucesses,- Honda and Porsche both produced moto
rs that worked well, and were more efficient than current aero motors. they
were MUCH more complicated owing to DOHV, variable valve and ignition timi
ng as well as the require d reduction unit.- here is an overhead of the P
orsche PFM (porsche flugmoter) http://www.mooneyland.com/mooneyposter.jpg
-
The honda was similar and they both had Specific Fuel consumptions below 0.
4 pph/hp.- I think honda gave up on the piston division to commit to thie
r new Honda-Jet.
-
The real-reason you dont have Honda or Porsche emblazoned on the side of
your nacell is that Neither- could make a business model based on 1000 en
gines a year. Even if you charged-$40k each....just no money in it for co
mpanies-with stockholders,- especially the technically competent ones l
ike H or P.--
-
Would you fly in a Dodge or Ford (or chevy) powered Commander?.....it would
take a SEA-change in personality and capability.
-
Oh, and my last 2p on design via racing engines.....You cant design a clean
slate engine for competition.- You start with a Basic design engine and
make incremental modifications to achieve the design goal.- Thats why Por
sche was chosen...they already had an air-cooled, multivalve, semi-PADEC (p
artial-authority) engine-and only needed a PRU for-the propeller.
-
As memory serves, Nissan even produced 2000 hp race engines for the Pond te
am, and were somewhat successful.--They had cooling problems tho and bu
rned up thier only prototypes at Reno.-
-
-
wer-
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Bill Hamilton wrote:
From: Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 5:46 AM
Folks,
I have had some involvement (automotive) that had a bearing on the problems
of the Orenda, and some of the other efforts to =93aerofy=94 automotive en
gines. Although of different engineering origin, the recent technical (not
financial/management) problems of Thielert engines have been related to the
auto origins of the engine.
-
There are some interesting and virtually insoluble problems of physics with
the traditional firing order of a 90 degree V-8, but if you go to a =93fla
t plane=94 crank (as per competition V-8=92s) you get vibration that is unc
omfortable in an auto or an aircraft.
-
It=92s all a while ago, but a fading memory tells me that it is No.5 big en
d that has a life measured in seconds, with any interruption of lubrication
, in the traditional crank/firing order, if we could do an Orenda with a fl
at plane crank (as I believe might have been tried) and produce a solution
to the vibration, so that you didn=92t destroy the prop. or the surrounding
aeroplane, you would have a goer.
-
Again trusting to memory, there was a problem with moving cylinder sleeves
in the Orenda, the cost of re-design to eliminate this problem was probably
at least one nail in the coffin. Remember, =93rules=94 for Ag. Engines are
not quite the same as for a =93standard=94 cat. C.of A aeroplane.
-
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
AC-500A ZK-DCF
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
-
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines.- They were replacements for the re
cip fleet.- The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo Co
mmander..- They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the ge
ared 1340.- jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impr
ession was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Evening Chris,
-
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!
-
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner
friends what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer w
as that there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Ch
evy design even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not
find a single owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not
sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression w
as that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was
surprised at the resistance I found.
-
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
-
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cschuerm@
cox.net writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one.- I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deal
s! - - -
-
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with
AOL News. - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://
forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution -
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Well some of these 'kids' say....Right-on-brother!
-
(funny...I havent felt like a kid since '69) Maybe thats why I like this Po
st...feel like a kid again.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Commander-List:
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:29 AM
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
-
-
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
-
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
-
-
-
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Design Information |
Im trying to find any of the original design data for the 500 to 680 series
aircraft.- Im trying to locate the L/D curves for any one of these model
s.
-
thanks.
-
wer=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
GREAT STUFF.? I flew my P&W,?R-985 last night looking at the fall foliage, the
start procedures is just like that!!!? I could ad that even the shut down is cool.?
Hold the brakes, don't point the prop blast at anything important.? Advance
the throttle to about 1500RPM?and slowly move the mix to idle cut off.? Then
as the engine winds down,?close the throttle.? This scavenges oil out of the
sump, back to the tank after the taxi.? Not a bad idea in a Commander with geared
engine ether, they are "dry sump" just like a radial.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
?
?
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
?
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
DON... where in Houston are you??? Are you flying Commanders now?
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I had none, Will.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is there
anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I have not and glad, besides I have already voted.
Jim Addington
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is there
anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
I have not gotten any but I did receive a lot of "unable to deliver"
spam messages.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks...It appears to be a personal email sent from a list member....
-
they're now on the spam list.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, nico css wrote:
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 9:33 AM
I had none, Will.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Hi Wilis, I've not been getting anything either. But often what happens
is spammers use somebody else's e-mail address (sounds like in this case
the Matronics address) - I know this because my Josh Stafford Books
e-mail address has been used by spammers. I have had a number of
flame-mail replies to my website saying they hate me for sending out
spam, will never buy my books, etc. Most unfortunate.
Regards, Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Gosh, I hope that's the case.- My 'spammer" in this cas,-is a frequent
contributor and otherwise has been very helpful with things Commander relat
ed.
-
I didnt know you could hijack someones email like that.- We'll, Ill be mo
re careful from now on.
-
thanks.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, andrew.bridget(at)telus.net w
rote:
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 10:47 AM
Hi Wilis, I've not been getting anything either. But often what happens is
spammers use somebody else's e-mail address (sounds like in this case the M
atronics address) - I know this because my Josh Stafford Books e-mail addre
ss has been used by spammers. I have had a number of flame-mail replies to
my website saying they hate me for sending out spam, will never buy my book
s, etc. Most unfortunate.
Regards, Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so overwhelming,
not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when that happens
(where else did they get into?), that it is a real and expensive pest.
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A couple of
years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email receipt rate ran
in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less ugly. Eventually I
gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted application with spam filtering
and staff that does nothing else but keep it up to date, which brought the
rate down into the low hundreds; cutting the incidences of spam down to
about 10% that still slip past the filters. I could never answer the
question of how many legitimate emails are being filtered out that I will
never receive; and how many opportunities and business mail were lost. I
would never know. To minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the
content of my emails not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam
filter. And if I need information from a vendor or contractor that would of
necessity have words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed
to me.
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we go
about our business, that's the game.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is
there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Nico;
I don't think a political spam is "robbers that lurk in the bushes" and
as wer said he did, just put the sender in the blocked email list.
I agree, it does not belong on the list, which as I understand it, it is
not on the list, but I don't make a big deal out of it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so
overwhelming, not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when
that happens (where else did they get into?), that it is a real and
expensive pest.
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A
couple of years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email
receipt rate ran in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less
ugly. Eventually I gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted
application with spam filtering and staff that does nothing else but
keep it up to date, which brought the rate down into the low hundreds;
cutting the incidences of spam down to about 10% that still slip past
the filters. I could never answer the question of how many legitimate
emails are being filtered out that I will never receive; and how many
opportunities and business mail were lost. I would never know. To
minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the content of my emails
not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam filter. And if I
need information from a vendor or contractor that would of necessity
have words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed to me.
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we
go about our business, that's the game.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/28/2008 10:04 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Nico is just referring to spam filters in general.- There is-a tremendo
us amount of work done behind the scenes of a web-page or chat portal.- F
ilters are just an annoying fact of life.
-
Do I smell SPAM burning?....
----------------------------------------------------------
Now for something completely different.
-
Do I need an Original POH onboard or can one of the 'reprints" offered on t
he internet do the job?- Any recommendations?
-
thanks.
-
Willis.
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Don wrote:
From: Don <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 1:12 PM
Nico;
-
I don't think a political spam is "robbers that lurk in the bushes" and as
wer said he did, just put the sender in the blocked email list.
-
I agree, it-does not belong on the list, which as I understand it, it is
not on the list, but I don't make a big deal out of it.
-
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so overwhelming,
not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when that happens (wh
ere else did they get into?), that it is a real and expensive pest.
-
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A couple of
years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email receipt rate ra
n in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less ugly. Eventually
I gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted application with spam filter
ing and staff that does nothing else but keep it up to date, which brought
the rate down into the low hundreds; cutting the incidences of spam down to
about 10% that still slip past the filters. I could never answer the quest
ion of how many legitimate emails are being filtered out that I will never
receive; and how many opportunities and business mail were lost. I would ne
ver know. To minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the content of m
y emails not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam filter. And if
I need information from a vendor or contractor that would of necessity hav
e words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed to me.
-
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we go abo
ut our business, that's the game.
-
Nico
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
-
-
-
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is t
here anything the 'list' can to do stop it"--I thought that is why my c
omputer has a "delete" button!Don-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Good Afternoon Willis,
My read would be that you need whatever is listed in the Type Certificate
Data Sheet.
If you don't have access to the TCDS, your IA should have the information.
While I am certainly no expert on such things, if you will send me data
concerning your aircraft such as the model number and serial number, I will see
if
I can find the required information.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/30/2008 3:49:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
drwer2(at)yahoo.com writes:
Nico is just referring to spam filters in general. There is a tremendous
amount of work done behind the scenes of a web-page or chat portal. Filters
are just an annoying fact of life.
Do I smell SPAM burning?....
----------------------------------------------------------
Now for something completely different.
Do I need an Original POH onboard or can one of the 'reprints" offered on
the internet do the job? Any recommendations?
thanks.
Willis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
"Do I smell SPAM burning?...."
Not from me!
To answer your question indirectly. I believe you can still
purchase POH. I have both my original and a "new one" give to me by a
friend.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Gents-
Trace wasn't racing their engine- they merely had one on display and were
providing sales support for it.
Even with a pair of V8s, the 685 wouldn't give much of a chase in the
unlimited heat!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Those folks wanted nothing to do with it even though the numbers
> worked out quite favorably.
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option. Since (to the best of my knowledge), no
STC/certification was ever achieved for those airplanes ,no significant
operating history exists, and no advertising was ever done in places
where corp owners would have seen it, I don't think the product ever mad
it out of the shadows. I also don't think that the engine would have
ever gained much momentum without some significant operational
experience. Corporate owners don't seem to be the type to pounce on a
major unproven powerplant option to me. Nico's point that a few Reno
win's would help put them on the map is valid, but they'd need a good
test fleet building hours to make it attractive to the target market.
I remember hearing that there were some significant problems with the
Commander test vehicle, but don't remember the specifics. Anyone else
know more than I do?
cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: : Commander-List: |
JB-
What was that 985 hanging on?
I've got a 1340 on the SNJ. I'd go look at foliage this weekend, but we're
expecting a bit of a blower and the sage brush just turns from brownish
green to brownish brown out here. :-p
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
GREAT STUFF. I flew my P&W, R-985 last night looking at the fall foliage,
the start procedures is just like that!!! I could ad that even the shut
down is cool. Hold the brakes, don't point the prop blast at anything
important. Advance the throttle to about 1500RPM and slowly move the mix to
idle cut off. Then as the engine winds down, close the throttle. This
scavenges oil out of the sump, back to the tank after the taxi. Not a bad
idea in a Commander with geared engine ether, they are "dry sump" just like
a radial. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
AOL News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List: |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Anybody want to trade their P51 for my 500B? |
Hi all:
-
I received this from a friend- many of you may have seen it.-
This tribute to the Gray Eagles (WWII pilots) was in conjunction with an ai
rshow in Ohio called "The Final Roundup." -It was the last large gatherin
g of the remaining P-51 Mustang fighters used during WWII. -There were ab
out 120 of the fighters there, all of them in flying condition, of course.
-The flyover
seen at the end of the video is composed entirely of P51s spelling out the
number 51. -It was an event that may never be seen again.
http://www.grayeagles.org/video.htm
Turn up the sound!
I think it is terriffic.
-
dan
-
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
It is on a "homebuilt" Grumman Ag-Cat.=C2- It is now a three place, open c
ockpit bi-plane, usually on floats but currently back on wheels.=C2- I lov
e the 1340,=C2- flew Ag for 15 years and have many thousands of hours behi
nd a 1340, geared 1340 and the 985.=C2- jb
What was that 985 hanging on
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 6:10 am
Subject: RE: Re: Commander-List:
JB-
=C2-
What was that 985 hanging on?
=C2-
I=99ve got a 1340 on the SNJ=C2- I=99d go look at fol
iage this weekend, but we=99re expecting a bit of a blower and the sag
e brush just turns from brownish green to brownish brown out here.=C2- :-p
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
=C2-
GREAT STUFF.=C2- I flew my P&W,=C2-R-985 last night looking at the fall
foliage, the start procedures is just like that!!!=C2- I could ad that eve
n the shut down is cool.=C2- Hold the brakes, don't point the prop blast a
t anything important.=C2- Advance the throttle to about 1500RPM=C2-and s
lowly move the mix to idle cut off.=C2- Then as the engine winds down,=C2
-close the throttle.=C2- This scavenges oil out of the sump, back to the
tank after the taxi.=C2- Not a bad idea in a Commander with geared engine
ether, they are "dry sump" just like a radial.=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
=C2-
=C2-
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
=C2-
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
AOL News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> |
Can you sell rides in the AG CAT ?? I assume it is in experimental catagory
. I'm fighting with myself about going experimental with my 450 Stearman or
going to the
expense of standard catagory. I would like a wide seat in the front also.
Of course my 500 Commander is my favorite go somewhere airplane.
Roland Gilliam
n Ag-Cat. It is now a three place=2C open cockpit bi-plane=2C usually on f
loats but currently back on wheels. I love the 1340=2C flew Ag for 15 yea
rs and have many thousands of hours behind a 1340=2C geared 1340 and the 98
5. jb
What was that 985 hanging on-----Original Message-----From: Robert S. Randa
zzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.comSent:
Fri=2C 31 Oct 2008 6:10 amSubject: RE: Re: Commander-List:
JB-
What was that 985 hanging on?
I=92ve got a 1340 on the SNJ=85 I=92d go look at foliage this weekend=2C b
ut we=92re expecting a bit of a blower and the sage brush just turns from b
rownish green to brownish brown out here. :-p
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.comSent: Thursday=2C Octo
ber 30=2C 2008 9:11 AMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Commande
r-List:
GREAT STUFF. I flew my P&W=2C R-985 last night looking at the fall foliage
=2C the start procedures is just like that!!! I could ad that even the shu
t down is cool. Hold the brakes=2C don't point the prop blast at anything
important. Advance the throttle to about 1500RPM and slowly move the mix t
o idle cut off. Then as the engine winds down=2C close the throttle. This
scavenges oil out of the sump=2C back to the tank after the taxi. Not a b
ad idea in a Commander with geared engine ether=2C they are "dry sump" just
like a radial. jb-----Original Message-----From: Jim Addington <jtaddingt
on(at)verizon.net>To: Jim Addington Sent: Thu=2C 30 O
ct 2008 7:29 amSubject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat=2C round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet EngineRound engines are commonly known as
Radial engines. The piston Jugsare placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engin
es. Turbine engines areknown as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turb
ines=2C they'reruining aviation and our hearing.A turbine is too simple min
ded=2C it has no mystery. The air travelsthrough it in a straight line and
doesn't pick up any of the pungentfragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. A
nybody can start a turbine.You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "ST
ART" and then rememberto move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harde
r to start.Cranking a round engine requires skill=2C finesse and style. You
have toseduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On someplan
es=2C the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start bywhining for
a while=2C then give a lady-like poof and start whining alittle louder.Rou
nd engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle=2C click-click=2C BANG=2C morera
ttles=2C another BANG=2C a big macho FART or two=2C more clicks=2C a lotmor
e smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It'sa GUY thi
ng.When you start a round engine=2C your mind is engaged and you canconcent
rate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking onaceiling fan:
Useful=2C but=2C hardly exciting.When you have started his round engine suc
cessfully your Crew Chieflooks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl=2C
too! Turbines don'tbreak or catch fire often enough=2C which leads to airc
rew boredom=2Ccomplacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks an
d soundslike it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind
.Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot'satten
tion. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.Turbines smell lik
e a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Roundengines smell like God inten
ded machines to smell.Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son=2C or any
one who ever flewthem) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
AOL News.
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign tra2631/ao
l?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL N
ews.
_________________________________________________________________
You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC.
R0lGODlhDgevBHcAMSH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAAB
AAEAgAAAAAECAwICRAEAOw=
R0lGODlh4AaQBHcAMSH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAAB
AAEAgAAAAAECAwICRAEAOw=
R0lGODlhsASEA3cAMSH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAAB
AAEAgAAAAAECAwICRAEAOw=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
-Landies and Gentlemen:
-
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my m
ind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines.- I decided to retire early at
58 for many reasons.- Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a d
ifferent type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken
a wack on my retirement.- The engine part is that after 36 years and abou
t 18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure.- One time in a
B52 we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
-
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
-
dan =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations, Dan! Please post tales of your upcoming adventures...
ak
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Dan Farmer wrote:
> Landies and Gentlemen:
>
> I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my
> mind.
> Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early at
> 58 for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a
> different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken
> a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years and about
> 18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure. One time in a B52
> we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
>
> IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
>
> dan
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
So this means you can go on the cruse with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Yiippee!!? jb
?Landies and Gentlemen:
?
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines.?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 6:31 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
?Landies and Gentlemen:
?
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines.? I decided to retire early at 58 for
many reasons.? Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a different type
of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken a wack on my retirement.?
The engine part is that after 36 years and about 18000 hours in jets
I have never had an engine failure.? One time in a B52 we shut one down for
low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
?
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
?
dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Call me, 360-903-6901.=C2- jb
Can you sell rides in the AG CAT ?? I assume it is in experimental catagory.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 2:41 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Can you sell rides in the AG CAT ?? I assume it is in experimental catagory.
I'm fighting with myself about going experimental with my 450 Stearman or g
oing to the
=C2-
=C2-expense of=C2- standard catagory. I would like a wide seat in the fr
ont also. Of course my 500 Commander is my favorite go somewhere airplane.
=C2-
Roland Gilliam
=C2-
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:05:06 -0400
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
It is on a "homebuilt" Grumman Ag-Cat.=C2- It is now a three place, open c
ockpit bi-plane, usually on floats but currently back on wheels.=C2- I lov
e the 1340,=C2- flew Ag for 15 years and have many thousands of hours behi
nd a 1340, geared 1340 and the 985.=C2- jb
What was that 985 hanging on
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 6:10 am
Subject: RE: Re: Commander-List:
JB-
=C2-
What was that 985 hanging on?
=C2-
I=99ve got a 1340 on the SNJ=C2- I=99d go look at fol
iage this weekend, but we=99re expecting a bit of a blower and the sag
e brush just turns from brownish green to brownish brown out here.=C2- :-p
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
=C2-
GREAT STUFF.=C2- I flew my P&W,=C2-R-985 last night looking at the fall
foliage, the start procedures is just like that!!!=C2- I could ad that eve
n the shut down is cool.=C2- Hold the brakes, don't point the prop blast a
t anything important.=C2- Advance the throttle to about 1500RPM=C2-and s
lowly move the mix to idle cut off.=C2- Then as the engine winds down,=C2
-close the throttle.=C2- This scavenges oil out of the sump, back to the
tank after the taxi.=C2- Not a bad idea in a Commander with geared engine
ether, they are "dry sump" just like a radial.=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
=C2-
=C2-
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
=C2-
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
AOL News.
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign tra2631/aol
?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL New
s.
You live life beyond your PC. So now556/direct/01/' target='_new'>See how
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You will enjoy it.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my
mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early at 58
for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a
different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken
a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years and about
18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure. One time in a B52
we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Dan-
Congratulations on achieving Controlled Flight into Retirement!
Many of our colleagues around the industry aren't so fortunate to make it to
a position where they can choose the retire or depart the industry on their
own terms.
We'll pull up another stool to the Voluntary Former Airline Pilots Fraternal
and Drinking Association.
Of course- since you mentioned wanting to do a "different type of flying"
you are now obligated to explain yourself. J
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
VFAPF&DA Member
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my
mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early at 58
for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a
different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken
a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years and about
18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure. One time in a B52
we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
dan
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Totally envious, Dan. Totally. I'll have to grind till I drop.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my
mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early at 58
for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a
different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken
a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years and about
18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure. One time in a B52
we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
dan
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through soley through the
Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days
reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the
bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts.
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
https://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really
do feel like family.
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Good decision Dan!
Now, you'll wonder how on earth you ever managed to find time to go to
work.
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your "life of leisure".
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:31 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines
changed my mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire
early at 58 for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want
to do a different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would
have taken a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36
years and about 18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure.
One time in a B52 we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7
left, that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a
COMMANDER:-)))
dan
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com> |
Congratulations Dan!!!
Robert B. Steele, Treasurer
KZF Design Inc.
655 Eden Park Drive Suite 750
Cincinnati, OH 45202-6000
main 513.621.6211
bob.steele(at)kzf.com KZF.COM
<http://www.kzf.com>
This message (and any attachments) is intended solely for the use of the
named individual(s) to whom it is directed. This message may contain
information that is confidential, subject to copyright, attorney client
privilege, work product privilege, is a trade secret, and/or is exempt
from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or duplication of this transmission, or files attached to this
transmission, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message
in error, please immediately notify the webmaster at KZF Design, Inc. at
513.621.6211, or by reply to this message, and delete this message and
all attachments from your computer. Transmissions sent to and from KZF
Design may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to
be secure or error-free, and may be intercepted, corrupted, lost,
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. KZF Design
shall not be held liable for any such eventualities.
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed
my mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early
at 58 for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do
a different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have
taken a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years
and about 18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure. One
time in a B52 we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left,
that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Now you have more time to fly the 500B.
On my G---., The dreaded 7 engine approach!!!! :)
I will be in COS doing the fuel tank start up at COS Bus. Park on
Tuesday and Wed.
How about I buy you one at SOLO's on Tues evening???
Call me.
Tylor Hall
505-400-8373 Cell.
On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:24 AM, Barry Collman wrote:
> Good decision Dan!
>
> Now, you'll wonder how on earth you ever managed to find time to go
> to work.
>
> I hope you thoroughly enjoy your "life of leisure".
>
> Very Best Regards,
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Farmer
> To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:31 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
>
> Landies and Gentlemen:
>
> I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines
> changed my mind.
> Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire
> early at 58 for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I
> want to do a different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov
> 1 I would have taken a wack on my retirement. The engine part is
> that after 36 years and about 18000 hours in jets I have never had
> an engine failure. One time in a B52 we shut one down for low oil
> pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
>
> IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
>
> dan
>
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contribution Site URL Clarification |
Dear Listers,
In my List Fund Raiser kickoff email last night, I mistyped the URL for the *initial*
Contribution web site and couple of people reported receiving SSL certificate
errors. The actual payment entry pages where were correct, however, so
there were no certificate issues that impacted payment data. I'm sorry for the
confusion.
Please use the following URL to start your List Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)deneals.com> |
On 10/31/08 11:19 PM, "Robert S. Randazzo"
wrote:
>
> Many of our colleagues around the industry aren=B9t so fortunate to make it
to a
> position where they can choose the retire or depart the industry on their
own
> terms.
>
Amen to that (don=B9t ask me how I know) and super congrats Dan.
DS
--
Deneal Schilmeister
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
We were kind of getting more and more concerned about your immediate
situational awareness...forgetting to take that chock out on departure at
Oklahoma City!!
Congrats Big Boy!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
PS Loved the Wormy Dog!!
On 1/11/08 11:01 AM, "Dan Farmer" wrote:
> Landies and Gentlemen:
>
> I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines changed my
> mind.
> Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire early at 58
> for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want to do a different
> type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would have taken a wack on my
> retirement. The engine part is that after 36 years and about 18000 hours in
> jets I have never had an engine failure. One time in a B52 we shut one down
> for low oil pressure--WOW only 7 left, that is scary.
>
> IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a COMMANDER:-)))
>
> dan
>
>
>
>
> 3D=========================
> 3D=======
> <3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">
> 3D=========================
> 3D=======
> 3D=========================
> 3D=======
> <3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> 3D=========================
> 3D=======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Congratulations Dan.
Did they give you the firetruck arches or have they stopped that for
cost reasons.
I couldn't agree more about the "IF ITS NOT BOEING" I do like those
airplanes, just like I like Commanders.
I think Jim A. and I both agree, life is even better, no holiday trips
or red eye specials.
God Bless, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sunset
Landies and Gentlemen:
I was not going to mention this but all the talk about engines
changed my mind.
Today was my last day at American Airlines. I decided to retire
early at 58 for many reasons. Mostly after 31 years at American I want
to do a different type of flying and also if I worked past Nov 1 I would
have taken a wack on my retirement. The engine part is that after 36
years and about 18000 hours in jets I have never had an engine failure.
One time in a B52 we shut one down for low oil pressure--WOW only 7
left, that is scary.
IF IT IS NOT BOEING I AM NOT GOING---unless it is a
COMMANDER:-)))
dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS....
I have never before?entered the realm of politics with the Flight Group, but this
year is crucial to the future of what brings us together, aviation.? AOPA has
for years been fighting the good fight against higher cost and reduced access
for GA airplanes.? They may?soon?be dealt a blow that they cant overcome.?
As we prepare to vote for president this year PLEASE remember this.? Love him
or hate him, George Bush IS NOT RUNNING!!!!!? John Mccain is.? John is a pilot,
a naval aviator.? What you may not know is that his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot
and the Maccain family operates a GA airplane.? Imagine having both the president
and first lady GA PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? But wait, it gets better.?
Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, is also a private pilot with a current third class
medical and the Palin family owns and operates a GA airplane, a Super Cub.?
Sarah Palin comes from a state the literally survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant imagine
not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
The other candidate has PROMISED to raise taxes (and has a voting record to prove
it)?on "the rich".? Do you suppose?he considers those who own their own airplane
"rich".? Higher fuel taxes (as much as 600%) and user fees would almost
certainly be in our future.? Backed by a?majority on both houses, it is likely
that GA will be?not exist as we have known it.? He also said "I haven't spent
the last six months in hotels and?ON AIRPLANES?to finish second" (paraphrasing).
so we know how he thinks of aviation.? PLEASE, VOTE FOR MACCAIN/PALIN, VOTE
SOON, VOTE OFTEN (those in Ohio)? Jim Metzger Director, Twin Commander Flight
group.? 360-903-6901
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
-----Original Message-----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 3:32 pm
Subject: FUTURE OF AVIATION
HI KIDS....
I have never before?entered the realm of politics with the Flight Group, but this
year is crucial to the future of what brings us together, aviation.? AOPA has
for years been fighting the good fight against higher cost and reduced access
for GA airplanes.? They may?soon?be dealt a blow that they cant overcome.?
As we prepare to vote for president this year PLEASE remember this.? Love him
or hate him, George Bush IS NOT RUNNING!!!!!? John Mccain is.? John is a pilot,
a naval aviator.? What you may not know is that his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot
and the Maccain family operates a GA airplane.? Imagine having both the president
and first lady GA PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? But wait, it gets better.?
Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, is also a private pilot with a current third class
medical and the Palin family owns and operates a GA airplane, a Super Cub.?
Sarah Palin comes from a state the literally survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant imagine
not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
The other candidate has PROMISED to raise taxes (and has a voting record to prove
it)?on "the rich".? Do you suppose?he considers those who own their own airplane
"rich".? Higher fuel taxes (as much as 600%) and user fees would almost
certainly be in our future.? Backed by a?majority on both houses, it is likely
that GA will be?not exist as we have known it.? He also said "I haven't spent
the last six months in hotels and?ON AIRPLANES?to finish second" (paraphrasing).
so we know how he thinks of aviation.? PLEASE, VOTE FOR MACCAIN/PALIN, VOTE
SOON, VOTE OFTEN (those in Ohio)? Jim Metzger Director, Twin Commander Flight
group.? 360-903-6901
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with AOL
News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION?? |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
I don't know why the first posting got edited???? Sorry.? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Politics are such a large factor in our lives, especially in this election,
that it is hard to keep it out of our regular discourse, such as the future
of aviation and that a pilot may well be our commander-in-chief on
Wednesday. Some folks still believe that it will be just business as usual
after Tuesday. Regardless of who wins, this country will have to adapt to
the threats that stack up against her from the outside and the inside.
Forgive me for passing this along on this list, but the Christians among us
may want to take a look at this http:www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp. Those who
do not believe in Christ, folks, I still love you for the other bonds that
keep us together which I cherish and treasure. Having been upfront about
what can be expected at this link, you may choose to go or not to go there
before you go there. As a wise old farmer once said, sometimes you get and
sometimes you get got. This is not one of those.
However you guys vote on Tuesday, vote wisely and vote so that you can live
with it later.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
HI KIDS....
I have never before entered the realm of politics with the Flight Group, but
this year is crucial to the future of what brings us together, aviation.
AOPA has for years been fighting the good fight against higher cost and
reduced access for GA airplanes. They may soon be dealt a blow that they
cant overcome. As we prepare to vote for president this year PLEASE
remember this. Love him or hate him, George Bush IS NOT RUNNING!!!!! John
Mccain is. John is a pilot, a naval aviator. What you may not know is that
his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot and the Maccain family operates a GA
airplane. Imagine having both the president and first lady GA
PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But wait, it gets better. Sarah Palin's husband,
Todd, is also a private pilot with a current third class medical and the
Palin family owns and operates a GA airplane, a Super Cub. Sarah Palin
comes from a state the literally survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant
imagine not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid
=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION #2 |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
I don't know why the first edited the last paragraph, please disregard the first
one, sorry? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken. I
don't know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: FUTURE OF AVIATION #2 |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
-----Original Message-----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 4:33 pm
Subject: FUTURE OF AVIATION #2
I don't know why the first edited the last paragraph, please disregard the first
one, sorry? jb
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with AOL
News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken. I
don't know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Fellow Commanders-
One of the things that makes these United States a wonderful country is that
a) we have the RIGHT to speak our mind, b) we have the OBLIGATION to respect
other's opinions, and c) we get to vote at the local, state and federal
levels to set direction for our nation.
Unfortunately, in the age of 24hr media coverage many of us seem to focus on
our rights without giving much thought to our obligations. This whole Red
State/Blue State, My Guy vs. Your Guy, My Issue vs. Your Issue is creating
a country completely polarized around the ends and soft in the middle.
The partisanship of the past twenty years has caused an unfortunate majority
of people to forget that some of us don't care where you are from, or what
God you pray to, or what you think our national agenda should be. Why don't
we care? Because you are a fellow American- and at the end of the day all
that matters is that you love our country, participate positively in the
process and don't close your mind or your ears to viewpoints other than your
own.
So with that being said, I'd like to politely request that we leave
discussion of our national politics to discussion lists set up specifically
for that purpose.
Last I checked this list was for all of us Commander owners and enthusiasts
to share knowledge and our love of the airplane.and "we Americans" aren't
the only ones in the room.
Whomever might win our election on Tuesday (or however many days afterward
that it might take) it will not change the fact that Commander parts are
hard to come by, hydraulic pumps will leak, occasionally some of us need
sound advice from more experienced commander owners, or maybe we just some
good old fashioned camaraderie based around a common interest.
If you feel that you must tell the members of this list your political
views: Put a McCain or Obama bumper sticker on your commander, and at the
next Fly-In everyone will know how you voted. But please- let's leave this
list for its primary purpose.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Politics are such a large factor in our lives, especially in this election,
that it is hard to keep it out of our regular discourse, such as the future
of aviation and that a pilot may well be our commander-in-chief on
Wednesday. Some folks still believe that it will be just business as usual
after Tuesday. Regardless of who wins, this country will have to adapt to
the threats that stack up against her from the outside and the inside.
Forgive me for passing this along on this list, but the Christians among us
may want to take a look at this http:www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp
<http://www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp> . Those who do not believe in Christ,
folks, I still love you for the other bonds that keep us together which I
cherish and treasure. Having been upfront about what can be expected at this
link, you may choose to go or not to go there before you go there. As a wise
old farmer once said, sometimes you get and sometimes you get got. This is
not one of those.
However you guys vote on Tuesday, vote wisely and vote so that you can live
with it later.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
HI KIDS....
I have never before entered the realm of politics with the Flight Group, but
this year is crucial to the future of what brings us together, aviation.
AOPA has for years been fighting the good fight against higher cost and
reduced access for GA airplanes. They may soon be dealt a blow that they
cant overcome. As we prepare to vote for president this year PLEASE
remember this. Love him or hate him, George Bush IS NOT RUNNING!!!!! John
Mccain is. John is a pilot, a naval aviator. What you may not know is that
his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot and the Maccain family operates a GA
airplane. Imagine having both the president and first lady GA
PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But wait, it gets better. Sarah Palin's husband,
Todd, is also a private pilot with a current third class medical and the
Palin family owns and operates a GA airplane, a Super Cub. Sarah Palin
comes from a state the literally survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant
imagine not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections?ncid
=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL News.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, you finally did it.
-
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of gl
eaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.-
-
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much.--- I quit.
-
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
-
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
-
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken. I
don't know.
-
- - ------- -- Please Support Your Lists This Month ---
--------- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is t
he Annual List Fund Raiser.- Click onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive
Gifts!List Contribution Web Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionT
hank you for your generous support!-------------
---------------- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
--------- - The Commander-List Email Forum ---> http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List-----------
--- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I am truly sorry I offended you and others, Will. There is no doubt about
who I am and what I stand for.
No defense.
When the moon is full, I get this way. And Tuesday is full moon.
You can quit over my politics and my religion; it's sad but an acceptable
reason, but don't mock my ignorance, please.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of
gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken. I
don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
List Contribution Web Site:
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Amen
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Fellow Commanders-
One of the things that makes these United States a wonderful country
is that a) we have the RIGHT to speak our mind, b) we have the
OBLIGATION to respect other's opinions, and c) we get to vote at the
local, state and federal levels to set direction for our nation.
Unfortunately, in the age of 24hr media coverage many of us seem to
focus on our rights without giving much thought to our obligations.
This whole Red State/Blue State, My Guy vs. Your Guy, My Issue vs. Your
Issue is creating a country completely polarized around the ends and
soft in the middle.
The partisanship of the past twenty years has caused an unfortunate
majority of people to forget that some of us don't care where you are
from, or what God you pray to, or what you think our national agenda
should be. Why don't we care? Because you are a fellow American- and
at the end of the day all that matters is that you love our country,
participate positively in the process and don't close your mind or your
ears to viewpoints other than your own.
So with that being said, I'd like to politely request that we leave
discussion of our national politics to discussion lists set up
specifically for that purpose.
Last I checked this list was for all of us Commander owners and
enthusiasts to share knowledge and our love of the airplane.and "we
Americans" aren't the only ones in the room.
Whomever might win our election on Tuesday (or however many days
afterward that it might take) it will not change the fact that Commander
parts are hard to come by, hydraulic pumps will leak, occasionally some
of us need sound advice from more experienced commander owners, or maybe
we just some good old fashioned camaraderie based around a common
interest.
If you feel that you must tell the members of this list your political
views: Put a McCain or Obama bumper sticker on your commander, and at
the next Fly-In everyone will know how you voted. But please- let's
leave this list for its primary purpose.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:05 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Politics are such a large factor in our lives, especially in this
election, that it is hard to keep it out of our regular discourse, such
as the future of aviation and that a pilot may well be our
commander-in-chief on Wednesday. Some folks still believe that it will
be just business as usual after Tuesday. Regardless of who wins, this
country will have to adapt to the threats that stack up against her from
the outside and the inside.
Forgive me for passing this along on this list, but the Christians
among us may want to take a look at this
http:www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp. Those who do not believe in Christ,
folks, I still love you for the other bonds that keep us together which
I cherish and treasure. Having been upfront about what can be expected
at this link, you may choose to go or not to go there before you go
there. As a wise old farmer once said, sometimes you get and sometimes
you get got. This is not one of those.
However you guys vote on Tuesday, vote wisely and vote so that you can
live with it later.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:33 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
HI KIDS....
I have never before entered the realm of politics with the Flight
Group, but this year is crucial to the future of what brings us
together, aviation. AOPA has for years been fighting the good fight
against higher cost and reduced access for GA airplanes. They may soon
be dealt a blow that they cant overcome. As we prepare to vote for
president this year PLEASE remember this. Love him or hate him, George
Bush IS NOT RUNNING!!!!! John Mccain is. John is a pilot, a naval
aviator. What you may not know is that his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot
and the Maccain family operates a GA airplane. Imagine having both the
president and first lady GA PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But wait, it gets
better. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, is also a private pilot with a
current third class medical and the Palin family owns and operates a GA
airplane, a Super Cub. Sarah Palin comes from a state the literally
survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant
imagine not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections
?ncid=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL News.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C
ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Good grief, don't be silly, it's just a transgression, not worth
quitting over.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I
quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must
be broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
All,
In this day and age of supreme political BS where the candidates will
say anything to get elected, you have given me the final reason to vote
for McCain and Palin. The previous reason to vote for them was because
Obama pledged to raise the taxes on us individuals wealthy enough to own
and fly Twin Commanders. On any of the other issues who knows where any
of them stand?
Don Falik
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
I am truly sorry I offended you and others, Will. There is no doubt
about who I am and what I stand for.
No defense.
When the moon is full, I get this way. And Tuesday is full moon.
You can quit over my politics and my religion; it's sad but an
acceptable reason, but don't mock my ignorance, please.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of
gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken.
I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
List Contribution Web Site:
--> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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3D====================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
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3D====================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=======================
3D====================
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=======================
3D====================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
________________________________________________________________________________
That thin skinned piss ant is likely one of those jerks that would laugh
at the Sarah Palin hanging Halloween Decoration in California and call
it art... I certainly hope to not have an Obomination of an election
Tuesday! Oops! My spell check worked but I sent it anyway!
Nico, I heard you on Rush a while back and you are brilliant. I'm sorry
to disagree with you but, I'm NEVER sorry to offend those that need
offending.
Victor
From: nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:33 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
I am truly sorry I offended you and others, Will. There is no doubt
about who I am and what I stand for.
No defense.
When the moon is full, I get this way. And Tuesday is full moon.
You can quit over my politics and my religion; it's sad but an
acceptable reason, but don't mock my ignorance, please.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be
broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Nico;
You replied to my post about spam and then I basically got asked, " Do I
smell spam burning"? I got the email he was referring too, and no it
wasn't from me. Skin is kind of thin in my opinion, he can make pointed
remarks about me and others and that is OK, but if someone appears to
disagree with who he evidently supports, then, "I will take my ball and
go home". He is entitled to his beliefs, I don't have a problem with
that, we have all seen this in the past, but I can agree to disagree,
without calling names, pouting and leaving in a huff. Most of us have
disagreed with some posts in the past, big deal, we still remain civil
and continue to post.
I agree with Chris, many on this list have served this nation in
uniform. We fought for our beliefs, and I for one will continue to due
so, and that includes my religious beliefs which I hold very dear!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
I am truly sorry I offended you and others, Will. There is no doubt
about who I am and what I stand for.
No defense.
When the moon is full, I get this way. And Tuesday is full moon.
You can quit over my politics and my religion; it's sad but an
acceptable reason, but don't mock my ignorance, please.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I
quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must
be broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
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3D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/28/2008 10:04 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
BYE..............jb
Well, you finally did it.
?
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of gleaning
some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.?
?
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much.??? I quit.
?
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 6:05 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
?
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of gleaning
some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.?
?
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much.??? I quit.
?
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
?
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken. I don't
know.
?
?
?
?
?????? -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
?????????? (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.? Click on
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
List Contribution Web Site:
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!
????????????????????????????? -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
????????? - The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
?????????????? - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
Contribution too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FUTURE OF AVIATION |
| From: | "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com> |
Robert,
I disagree with you. Too much at stake.
Regards,
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
S. Randazzo
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Fellow Commanders-
One of the things that makes these United States a wonderful country is
that a) we have the RIGHT to speak our mind, b) we have the OBLIGATION
to respect other's opinions, and c) we get to vote at the local, state
and federal levels to set direction for our nation.
Unfortunately, in the age of 24hr media coverage many of us seem to
focus on our rights without giving much thought to our obligations.
This whole Red State/Blue State, My Guy vs. Your Guy, My Issue vs. Your
Issue is creating a country completely polarized around the ends and
soft in the middle.
The partisanship of the past twenty years has caused an unfortunate
majority of people to forget that some of us don't care where you are
from, or what God you pray to, or what you think our national agenda
should be. Why don't we care? Because you are a fellow American- and
at the end of the day all that matters is that you love our country,
participate positively in the process and don't close your mind or your
ears to viewpoints other than your own.
So with that being said, I'd like to politely request that we leave
discussion of our national politics to discussion lists set up
specifically for that purpose.
Last I checked this list was for all of us Commander owners and
enthusiasts to share knowledge and our love of the airplane...and "we
Americans" aren't the only ones in the room.
Whomever might win our election on Tuesday (or however many days
afterward that it might take) it will not change the fact that Commander
parts are hard to come by, hydraulic pumps will leak, occasionally some
of us need sound advice from more experienced commander owners, or maybe
we just some good old fashioned camaraderie based around a common
interest.
If you feel that you must tell the members of this list your political
views: Put a McCain or Obama bumper sticker on your commander, and at
the next Fly-In everyone will know how you voted... But please- let's
leave this list for its primary purpose.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Politics are such a large factor in our lives, especially in this
election, that it is hard to keep it out of our regular discourse, such
as the future of aviation and that a pilot may well be our
commander-in-chief on Wednesday. Some folks still believe that it will
be just business as usual after Tuesday. Regardless of who wins, this
country will have to adapt to the threats that stack up against her from
the outside and the inside.
Forgive me for passing this along on this list, but the Christians among
us may want to take a look at this http:www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp
<http://www.acu.org/prayerchain.asp> . Those who do not believe in
Christ, folks, I still love you for the other bonds that keep us
together which I cherish and treasure. Having been upfront about what
can be expected at this link, you may choose to go or not to go there
before you go there. As a wise old farmer once said, sometimes you get
and sometimes you get got. This is not one of those.
However you guys vote on Tuesday, vote wisely and vote so that you can
live with it later.
Nico
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FUTURE OF AVIATION
HI KIDS....
I have never before entered the realm of politics with the Flight Group,
but this year is crucial to the future of what brings us together,
aviation. AOPA has for years been fighting the good fight against
higher cost and reduced access for GA airplanes. They may soon be dealt
a blow that they cant overcome. As we prepare to vote for president
this year PLEASE remember this. Love him or hate him, George Bush IS
NOT RUNNING!!!!! John Mccain is. John is a pilot, a naval aviator.
What you may not know is that his wife, Cindy, is also a pilot and the
Maccain family operates a GA airplane. Imagine having both the
president and first lady GA PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But wait, it gets
better. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, is also a private pilot with a
current third class medical and the Palin family owns and operates a GA
airplane, a Super Cub. Sarah Palin comes from a state the literally
survives on the wings of GA airplanes.
There are many reasons to vote for an individual candidate, but I cant
imagine not voting for a "Dream Team Ticket" like this for GA.
100000075x1212075880x1200752631/aol?redir=http://news.aol.com/elections
?
ncid=emlcntusnews00000001"> AOL News.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
o
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com> |
Danger Will Robinson - Danger.
Good grief - get a grip.
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the sake of
gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be broken.
I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
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List Contribution Web Site:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
You will not be missed.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, 02 November, 2008 20:05
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I
quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must
be broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Well if the jackass wins I want all of you to keep working hard so he can re distribute
your income to me cause I'm gonna quit working when everything is provided
FREE by the guvmnt.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212018#212018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
> That thin skinned piss ant is likely one of those jerks that would laugh at the
Sarah Palin hanging Halloween Decoration in California and call it art... I
certainly hope to not have an Obomination of an election Tuesday! Oops! My spell
check worked but I sent it anyway!
>
>
I don't know you but I am pretty certain I would enjoy getting drunk with you.
Don't worry pissant if your guy wins you will not need any knowledge about Twin
Commanders because no one will be able to afford to own or fly one.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212021#212021
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Gosh Steve, I thought we had gotten you back on the right track and permanently
pulled your head out of your butt. You are having a relapse?
Only rumors about gas taxes?
How about the candidate himself saying he is going to redistribute income because
"it is fair"
He himself says we are selfish if we wish to keep what we work for.
His running mate has only contributed $3,000 to charity over the last several years
out of the millions he has made. And I'm selfish?
THIS GUY IS NUTS, HES DANGEROUS, AT BEST A SOCIALIST AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD A COMMUNIST.
READ THESE WORDS HE WILL DESTROY THIS COUNTRY with the help of naieve folks like
you and the pissant.
ps I won't hold your opinions against your company.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212028#212028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
Mr. Willis Robison,
You sir, are very narrow minded, your judgment of others is a bit hasty,
and you are intolerant to the extreme. Why do you feel so threatened by
reading the opinions of others? This election will effect Commander
owners more than anything that we have yet to discuss. The point here
is, that if Obama wins we will have very little to discuss on the forum.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: willis robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be
broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
Nico,
No Apoligy is necessary. Some people can't stand the truth. You are
right and he is wrong.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
I am truly sorry I offended you and others, Will. There is no doubt
about who I am and what I stand for.
No defense.
When the moon is full, I get this way. And Tuesday is full moon.
You can quit over my politics and my religion; it's sad but an
acceptable reason, but don't mock my ignorance, please.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Well, you finally did it.
I could put up with a lot of BS on this website.....just for the
sake of gleaning some Aero Commander wisdom and insight.
But Your Politics, Religion and Ignorance is too much. I quit.
wer.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 PM
Or trying to give you a hint,
Jim A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: possessed
Is my Microsoft Word trying to tell me something?
Whenever I type Obama my spellchecker suggests Osama. It must be
broken. I don't know.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click
onthis year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!List Contribution Web
Site:--> http://www.matronics.com/contributionThank you for your
generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Commander-List Email Forum --->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
No doubt if Matt Dralle experiences a large upsurge of new subscribers
to our Chatlist, it will be people Worldwide switching from watching
NASCAR racing, in order to cure their insomnia.
I know you've all got more pressing matters on your minds right now, but
a few messages of congratulations to Lewis Hamilton will not go amiss.
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
And the guy who bet 10 years ago that he would win it, collected 165,000
quid.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Recent Postings
Hi All,
No doubt if Matt Dralle experiences a large upsurge of new subscribers to
our Chatlist, it will be people Worldwide switching from watching NASCAR
racing, in order to cure their insomnia.
I know you've all got more pressing matters on your minds right now, but a
few messages of congratulations to Lewis Hamilton will not go amiss.
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Milt, nothing I could say would make you think my head wasn't still up my
butt. So I won't try too awful hard.
I'm tired of being lied to by both sides. Arguements are pushed to ridiculus
extremes. Facts don't matter. And now we pick our news sources that tell us
what we already believe. (An email is not a news source.) Pick the most
extreme lefty or righty, and knock down a straw man.
Our government over the last eight years has been incompetant (and in many
ways radical). Genuine old-time conservatives have been abandoning the
current policies and party in droves. Most of those conservatives a lot
smarter than I am.
I don't believe Obama's nuts. I don't believe he's a commie. If he governs
from the center, and listens to dissenting opinions, he might just do ok.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:36 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION
>
>
> Gosh Steve, I thought we had gotten you back on the right track and
> permanently pulled your head out of your butt. You are having a relapse?
>
> Only rumors about gas taxes?
>
> How about the candidate himself saying he is going to redistribute income
> because "it is fair"
>
> He himself says we are selfish if we wish to keep what we work for.
>
> His running mate has only contributed $3,000 to charity over the last
> several years out of the millions he has made. And I'm selfish?
>
> THIS GUY IS NUTS, HES DANGEROUS, AT BEST A SOCIALIST AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD
> A COMMUNIST.
>
> READ THESE WORDS HE WILL DESTROY THIS COUNTRY with the help of naieve
> folks like you and the pissant.
>
> ps I won't hold your opinions against your company.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212028#212028
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)msn.com> |
bc=2C i agree. kudos to mr hamilton on a job well done and w/ class. gmc
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE:
Commander-List: Recent PostingsDate: Mon=2C 3 Nov 2008 07:14:14 -0800
And the guy who bet 10 years ago that he would win it=2C collected 165=2C00
0 quid.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry CollmanSent: Monday=2C November
03=2C 2008 7:01 AMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Commander-List:
Recent Postings
Hi All=2C
No doubt if Matt Dralle experiences a large upsurge of new subscribers to o
ur Chatlist=2C it will be people Worldwide switching from watching NASCAR r
acing=2C in order to cure their insomnia.
I know you've all got more pressing matters on your minds right now=2C but
a few messages of congratulations to Lewis Hamilton will not go amiss.
Best Regards=2C
Barry
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | FW: An Obituary printed in the London Times |
----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C93D38.D9B94370--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Recent Postings |
Well, anyone who placed such a bet when Lewis was aged just 13 must have
had a crystal ball.
I can only imagine what must be going through the guy's mind when Lewis
lost the necessary 5th place only to retrieve it again, with a matter of
just a few hundred yards to go, in the last of a season of 18 races that
totalled over 3,120 miles.
If the script for this season's F1 Championship had been a movie,
everyone would say it was too far-fetched.
A truly amazing end to the F1 Championship.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recent Postings
And the guy who bet 10 years ago that he would win it, collected
165,000 quid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Recent Postings
Hi All,
No doubt if Matt Dralle experiences a large upsurge of new subscribers
to our Chatlist, it will be people Worldwide switching from watching
NASCAR racing, in order to cure their insomnia.
I know you've all got more pressing matters on your minds right now,
but a few messages of congratulations to Lewis Hamilton will not go
amiss.
Best Regards,
Barry
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Recent Postings |
"With Class" - You're so right Mason.
He is truly a role model to all youngsters and a credit to his family
and Country.
If only they were all like him, instead of the knife-wielding mindless
thugs who prevail nowadays, the World would be a far nicer place.
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recent Postings
bc, i agree. kudos to mr hamilton on a job well done and w/ class.
gmc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recent Postings
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:14:14 -0800
And the guy who bet 10 years ago that he would win it, collected
165,000 quid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Recent Postings
Hi All,
No doubt if Matt Dralle experiences a large upsurge of new subscribers
to our Chatlist, it will be people Worldwide switching from watching
NASCAR racing, in order to cure their insomnia.
I know you've all got more pressing matters on your minds right now,
but a few messages of congratulations to Lewis Hamilton will not go
amiss.
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Milt,
I usually put my foot in my mouth up to the knee but Obama does not scare
me, he terrifies me. The damage his thinking and with the help of his
friends will destroy the country. He has said he would side with the Muslims
if it came down to it. That should be enough but then when he has said he
will reduce the military which would tell the world we are weak. He plans to
take the money from people that have worked hard and worried and sweated to
make and give it to people that are too lazy to work. I have seen several
clips where groups of people have been ask what he has accomplished and no
one could come up with any thing. He would rarely vote for anything unless
it was extremely liberal and the rest of the time he would just vote here.
He won't put his hand over his heart when the pledge of allegiance is said
and will not wear an American flag on his coat.
Sorry I got wound up but when it comes to my country I do real fast. I spent
my time in the Air Force and although I am too old now I would still do what
I could to protect this country.
Jim A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:36 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Gosh Steve, I thought we had gotten you back on the right track and
permanently pulled your head out of your butt. You are having a relapse?
Only rumors about gas taxes?
How about the candidate himself saying he is going to redistribute income
because "it is fair"
He himself says we are selfish if we wish to keep what we work for.
His running mate has only contributed $3,000 to charity over the last
several years out of the millions he has made. And I'm selfish?
THIS GUY IS NUTS, HES DANGEROUS, AT BEST A SOCIALIST AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD A
COMMUNIST.
READ THESE WORDS HE WILL DESTROY THIS COUNTRY with the help of naieve folks
like you and the pissant.
ps I won't hold your opinions against your company.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212028#212028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Actually I think our founding fathers would be quite satisfied with how
things are working. We're still here, after 232 years. Not Rome yet, but
we're still chugging along. The Constitution is still our governing
document. We're still (barely) managing to maintain the separation of
church & state. And no matter how bad things are, the guy in charge can
only continue it for a maximum of 8 years....and then he's ineligible to
run for office again. Obama wins and you don't like it? No problem, we
can vote him out in 2012. Or he's gone for good anyway in 2016.
There is ALWAYS a "sky is falling" mentality, and the media perpetuates
it. In 1985 when I got my first car loan, the interest rate on it was
12.5% through a major lender. Fallout from the Carter era? The last
great socialist who won the office on a platform of "Change?" He lasted
one term and we hastily voted him out on his ass.
Clinton was going to ruin the country too, I recall. He did institute
the assault weapon ban, which really upset many competitive shooters
like myself, but when he left office we had a budget SURPLUS....which
GWB spent in about a year.
This never ends. Go back a ways....how'd Calvin Coolidge do? His
policies essentially resulted in the Great Depression. And wow, we
survived that too.
I'm a fiscal conservative. I'm a registered Republican. I own my own
business, and it's probably going to be a target of Obama's tax
policies, so I have that to look forward to. GA is going to suffer as
well. But 4 years from now, there will still be capitalism, still be
airplanes, and still be pilots, rich and poor. The only change will be
who occupies the oval office. I also view the mainstream media as mildly
entertaining fiction. Good for an hour of yuks at night, but that's
about it.
Weather the storm. VOTE. And be vocal on the local and state level where
the people who need YOUR votes might actually be able to do something.
This will be my only opinion post. I'll continue to judiciously use the
delete button on my Commander List emails for the ones that don't
interest me.
This will also be my only plea to get everyone to VOTE TOMORROW.
Regardless of what anybody tells you, your vote STILL DOES MATTER.
Cheers,
/John
Jim Addington wrote:
>
> Milt,
> I usually put my foot in my mouth up to the knee but Obama does not scare
> me, he terrifies me. The damage his thinking and with the help of his
> friends will destroy the country. He has said he would side with the Muslims
> if it came down to it. That should be enough but then when he has said he
> will reduce the military which would tell the world we are weak. He plans to
> take the money from people that have worked hard and worried and sweated to
> make and give it to people that are too lazy to work. I have seen several
> clips where groups of people have been ask what he has accomplished and no
> one could come up with any thing. He would rarely vote for anything unless
> it was extremely liberal and the rest of the time he would just vote here.
> He won't put his hand over his heart when the pledge of allegiance is said
> and will not wear an American flag on his coat.
> Sorry I got wound up but when it comes to my country I do real fast. I spent
> my time in the Air Force and although I am too old now I would still do what
> I could to protect this country.
> Jim A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:36 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION
>
>
> Gosh Steve, I thought we had gotten you back on the right track and
> permanently pulled your head out of your butt. You are having a relapse?
>
> Only rumors about gas taxes?
>
> How about the candidate himself saying he is going to redistribute income
> because "it is fair"
>
> He himself says we are selfish if we wish to keep what we work for.
>
> His running mate has only contributed $3,000 to charity over the last
> several years out of the millions he has made. And I'm selfish?
>
> THIS GUY IS NUTS, HES DANGEROUS, AT BEST A SOCIALIST AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD A
> COMMUNIST.
>
> READ THESE WORDS HE WILL DESTROY THIS COUNTRY with the help of naieve folks
> like you and the pissant.
>
> ps I won't hold your opinions against your company.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212028#212028
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Therock24(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Hi Matt
Please remove me from your list I no longer own a commander. I have enjoyed
all the info that i reviewed while I owned a commander.
Thanks
Rocky
In a message dated 11/3/2008 12:19:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dralle(at)matronics.com writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a
Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your
qualifying Contribution too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION |
Great post, John. I sat in church yesterday and the pastor preached pretty
much the same thing.
Oh, I won't quit because of this. Sorry about that.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION
Actually I think our founding fathers would be quite satisfied with how
things are working. We're still here, after 232 years. Not Rome yet, but
we're still chugging along. The Constitution is still our governing
document. We're still (barely) managing to maintain the separation of church
& state. And no matter how bad things are, the guy in charge can only
continue it for a maximum of 8 years....and then he's ineligible to run for
office again. Obama wins and you don't like it? No problem, we can vote him
out in 2012. Or he's gone for good anyway in 2016.
There is ALWAYS a "sky is falling" mentality, and the media perpetuates it.
In 1985 when I got my first car loan, the interest rate on it was 12.5%
through a major lender. Fallout from the Carter era? The last great
socialist who won the office on a platform of "Change?" He lasted one term
and we hastily voted him out on his ass.
Clinton was going to ruin the country too, I recall. He did institute the
assault weapon ban, which really upset many competitive shooters like
myself, but when he left office we had a budget SURPLUS....which GWB spent
in about a year.
This never ends. Go back a ways....how'd Calvin Coolidge do? His policies
essentially resulted in the Great Depression. And wow, we survived that too.
I'm a fiscal conservative. I'm a registered Republican. I own my own
business, and it's probably going to be a target of Obama's tax policies, so
I have that to look forward to. GA is going to suffer as well. But 4 years
from now, there will still be capitalism, still be airplanes, and still be
pilots, rich and poor. The only change will be who occupies the oval office.
I also view the mainstream media as mildly entertaining fiction. Good for an
hour of yuks at night, but that's about it.
Weather the storm. VOTE. And be vocal on the local and state level where the
people who need YOUR votes might actually be able to do something.
This will be my only opinion post. I'll continue to judiciously use the
delete button on my Commander List emails for the ones that don't interest
me.
This will also be my only plea to get everyone to VOTE TOMORROW.
Regardless of what anybody tells you, your vote STILL DOES MATTER.
Cheers,
/John
Jim Addington wrote:
> -->
>
> Milt,
> I usually put my foot in my mouth up to the knee but Obama does not
> scare me, he terrifies me. The damage his thinking and with the help
> of his friends will destroy the country. He has said he would side
> with the Muslims if it came down to it. That should be enough but then
> when he has said he will reduce the military which would tell the
> world we are weak. He plans to take the money from people that have
> worked hard and worried and sweated to make and give it to people that
> are too lazy to work. I have seen several clips where groups of people
> have been ask what he has accomplished and no one could come up with
> any thing. He would rarely vote for anything unless it was extremely
liberal and the rest of the time he would just vote here.
> He won't put his hand over his heart when the pledge of allegiance is
> said and will not wear an American flag on his coat.
> Sorry I got wound up but when it comes to my country I do real fast. I
> spent my time in the Air Force and although I am too old now I would
> still do what I could to protect this country.
> Jim A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:36 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: FUTURE OF AVIATION
>
> -->
>
> Gosh Steve, I thought we had gotten you back on the right track and
> permanently pulled your head out of your butt. You are having a relapse?
>
> Only rumors about gas taxes?
>
> How about the candidate himself saying he is going to redistribute
> income because "it is fair"
>
> He himself says we are selfish if we wish to keep what we work for.
>
> His running mate has only contributed $3,000 to charity over the last
> several years out of the millions he has made. And I'm selfish?
>
> THIS GUY IS NUTS, HES DANGEROUS, AT BEST A SOCIALIST AND IN ALL
> LIKELIHOOD A COMMUNIST.
>
> READ THESE WORDS HE WILL DESTROY THIS COUNTRY with the help of naieve
> folks like you and the pissant.
>
> ps I won't hold your opinions against your company.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212028#212028
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "drwer2" <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Nico, you have no need to apologize, especially to me. Ive followed your comments
in the past and have no problem with them, per se.
However. I shouldn't have signed off so bluntly, and without explaining myself.
For that I owe you an apology. The following is a more apt description of
my intent.
"Victor". I could care less about your opinion. I didn't sign up to listen to
you Bull-Shit about politics, religion or anything else for that matter. This
is probably the only forum you have that will allow you vent your spleen.
I don't care if you are baptist,Muslim, Hindu or catholic.
I don't care if you are Rush Limbaugh's Valium connection
I don't care if you vote for McCain, Obama, Anglea Davis or Adolph Hitler. IMHO,
as a nation, we are in deep Sununu, regardless of candidate, and Ill still stand
to defend it.
I also don't care what you ate for breakfast for that matter. It irrelevant to
This Forum.
What I do care about, is that you've chosen to debase the value and integrity of
the Commander List and insulted everyone intelligence. Every time you espouse
your "beliefs", ridicule or denigrate the efforts of others trying to provide,
improve and maintain a wholesome a beneficial forum such as this, You are
slowly destroying the thing you say you defend.
Yeah, I'm pissed off. I was pissed off IN Vietnam and IN Korea. I get pissed
off, every time people say they are patriotic out one side their mouth, and then
simultaneously set about to destroy the freedoms (like the commander-list)
simply to make themselves look good in the 'eyes' of others. You are a sycophant
obfuscating the good nature of these people, just to make yourself feel good.
I could care less.
Thin- skinned. YOU BET , I AM and tired of defending twits who work thier Mouths
more than thier Backs.
I encourage you to vote. Just keep the results and your opinion to yourself.
If you want to voice your political believes, find a forum for that. Hell, Call
Rush, I'm sure he'd be glad to hear his palaver read back to him.
If you want to voice your relilgious beliefs....go to church.
If you just want to rant.....rant to your wife (or significant other, if you are
of that persuasion) or just kick the dog.
Just keep it out of the list. If the moderator had any Huevos, he would have cut
off the discussion as required by the by-laws. Instead, by allowing your little
"Freedom of Speech" He's allowed the list to become polarized. In the
future, I hope he does a better job at filter out the crap.
Gentlemen, if you have any questions regarding the health, maintenance or improvement
of anything Aero Commander Related, it would be a pleasure to share that
information with you.
Willis E. Robison, Ph.D., P.E. Aerospace
former USAF, 803rd Combat support Group and 555 Tactical Fighter wing.
Ret. Hamilton Sundstrand/PWC
"That thin skinned piss ant........... offend those that need offending.
Victor "
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212162#212162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Budplaster(at)aol.com |
WER,
You made this forum what it is currently by your adverse reaction to an
opinion written by a member. I think your reaction was initially very succinct
and honest. When others disagreed with your position you chose to get typically
nasty, as many with your views do. Then, you chose to get angry, say not so
nice things about someone and then be untruthful about the "I don't care
ifs..................." . Of course you do! You care about all things that are
not of your side of the aisle.
Thank God (who is still among US) for Victor and the others who voiced their
opinions regarding your resignation from the Commander Group. Since this is
still a free country Victor exercised the same rights you did.....You chose
to leave and he chose to stay. Pretty simple to me!
I'm 75 years of age and I can tell anyone that Korea and Vietnam are not
strange places to me. But your diatribe on this subject seems like you think
this country is a one-view place. Victor and I are entitled to our views and
opinions, regardless of how others see things. I don't know Victor but I'm
certain he is capable of expressing his views in many "forums".
In your name-calling paragraph you left out the most commonly used term to
describe someone who is not of your political leaning....hypocrites. This is
used quite often by your folks to describe my folks whenever you cannot
achieve a sophisticated communicative term that you hope you spell correctly.
Now, here is my position in all this.
I love God
I love my Country
I love my Commanders
I love that I get to vote tomorrow
I love that you get to vote tomorrow
I think our forum is just fine and it really suits me, since I have the
mechanical aptitude of a post. I am also happy to know I can call you whenever
I
need to have a solution to a pending problem.
Respectfully,
Buddy A. Plaster, Ph.D, MS, MA,
In a message dated 11/3/2008 3:31:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
drwer2(at)yahoo.com writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: "drwer2"
Nico, you have no need to apologize, especially to me. Ive followed your
comments in the past and have no problem with them, per se.
However. I shouldn't have signed off so bluntly, and without explaining
myself. For that I owe you an apology. The following is a more apt
description of my intent.
"Victor". I could care less about your opinion. I didn't sign up to listen
to you Bull-Shit about politics, religion or anything else for that matter.
This is probably the only forum you have that will allow you vent your
spleen.
I don't care if you are baptist,Muslim, Hindu or catholic.
I don't care if you are Rush Limbaugh's Valium connection
I don't care if you vote for McCain, Obama, Anglea Davis or Adolph Hitler.
IMHO, as a nation, we are in deep Sununu, regardless of candidate, and Ill
still stand to defend it.
I also don't care what you ate for breakfast for that matter. It irrelevant
to This Forum.
What I do care about, is that you've chosen to debase the value and
integrity of the Commander List and insulted everyone intelligence. Every time
you
espouse your "beliefs", ridicule or denigrate the efforts of others trying to
provide, improve and maintain a wholesome a beneficial forum such as this,
You are slowly destroying the thing you say you defend.
Yeah, I'm pissed off. I was pissed off IN Vietnam and IN Korea. I get
pissed off, every time people say they are patriotic out one side their mouth,
and then simultaneously set about to destroy the freedoms (like the
commander-list) simply to make themselves look good in the 'eyes' of others.
You are a
sycophant obfuscating the good nature of these people, just to make yourself
feel good. I could care less.
Thin- skinned. YOU BET , I AM and tired of defending twits who work thier
Mouths more than thier Backs.
I encourage you to vote. Just keep the results and your opinion to
yourself. If you want to voice your political believes, find a forum for that.
Hell,
Call Rush, I'm sure he'd be glad to hear his palaver read back to him.
If you want to voice your relilgious beliefs....go to church.
If you just want to rant.....rant to your wife (or significant other, if you
are of that persuasion) or just kick the dog.
Just keep it out of the list. If the moderator had any Huevos, he would
have cut off the discussion as required by the by-laws. Instead, by allowing
your little "Freedom of Speech" He's allowed the list to become polarized. In
the future, I hope he does a better job at filter out the crap.
Gentlemen, if you have any questions regarding the health, maintenance or
improvement of anything Aero Commander Related, it would be a pleasure to share
that information with you.
Willis E. Robison, Ph.D., P.E. Aerospace
former USAF, 803rd Combat support Group and 555 Tactical Fighter wing.
Ret. Hamilton Sundstrand/PWC
"That thin skinned piss ant........... offend those that need offending.
Victor "
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212162#212162
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
BudPlaster,- You are so right.- I owe you (and the list members) an apo
logy.- I should have not taken the list rules so literally and I should h
ave shown more patience in responding.- I'll not do that again.- Must h
ave had too much Geritol.
-
again....sorry for the headaches.
-
drwer2
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Thank you, Will.
This list's members are a small band of brothers (no sexism intended) who
have transcended their differences. I apologized early on, having been
slapped into humility on many occasions; the same humility that keeps us
alive in the cockpit.
Welcome home.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Apology to all
BudPlaster, You are so right. I owe you (and the list members) an apology.
I should have not taken the list rules so literally and I should have shown
more patience in responding. I'll not do that again. Must have had too
much Geritol.
again....sorry for the headaches.
drwer2
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Joens <cjoens(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Props for sale: HC-93Z20-2C1/10151-8R |
Howdy gentlemen=2C
Am trying to help a friend of mine move some props so he can continue on
a twin-bo project=2E (No accounting for taste=2E)
Mena Aircraft Propellers of Arkansas 0 timed these HC-93Z20-2C1/10151-8R
props in May of 2007=2E They are currently with him in the Dallas area=2E
Never installed=2C still packed=2E
He=92s looking for =2416=2C000 for the pair=2C so if anyone out there is
ready to do Jim=92s STC=2C there=92s no waiting involved=2E
I can=92t say I=92m just being a good friend here=2C once he sells his p
rops he=92ll be able to buy some parts I have that he wants!
I can be contacted at 907-223-1841 or cjoens=40gci=2Enet
Thanks guys=2C
Chris Joens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for
the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes
a
Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly
cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its
just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and
software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for
the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill
to
keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of
the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to
control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept
exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet
these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are
anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 680F cruise performance |
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Has anyone seen the Commander in the James Bond movie trailer Quantum of
Solace? It appears very briefly in the background of one of the scenes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
With winglets no less!!? jb
Has anyone seen the Commander in the James Bond movie trailer Quantum of Solace?
It appears very briefly in the background of one of the scenes.
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:03 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: James Bond
Has anyone seen the Commander in the James Bond movie trailer Quantum of Solace?
It appears very briefly in the background of one of the scenes.
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
?
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F??? Im estimating a ferry flight
and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your experience.
?
thanks.
?
wer
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | 680F cruise performance |
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F? Im estimating a ferry
flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your
experience.
thanks.
wer
>
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 680F cruise performance |
Thanks Randy, JB.- Thats- sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
-
Do you guys every fly on oxy?- I would think your economy would be much b
etter at a higher altitude.- And with oodles of power to get there quickl
y, it should be a snap.- I guess with the Time to climb and then let down
, that may not be cost-effective.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
-
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
-
-
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA - 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
-
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
October 27, 2008 - November 06, 2008
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-de