Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bh
February 14, 1999 - March 07, 1999
>
>
>Michael Highsmith wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Ben---guys and gals, Ref; radio use---The proper use of an
ultralight's
>> radio is to always say ultralight first, then the message. You can use
your
>> USUA registration # or your radio assigned # from the FCC if you register
it
>> which by the way you are suppose to even though it cost very little if
any.
>> Using UL first is what the FCC, the air traffic, the local FBO and the
>> private strip owner wants to here. You should not have any problems by
doing
>
>
>Mike and Kolb Gang:
>
>FCC eliminated the requirement for FCC station license for
>private aircraft that fly in US, and for boats that don't
>cruise in foreign countries.
>
>I would assume that station license for UL would have also
>been eliminated. However, I don't remember reading or
>hearing anything about the UL requirement.
>
>I guess we could do a search of FCC or possibly go the
>Landings web site and find out something a little more
>concrete than my guessing.
>
>I guess,
>
>john h (remember when a CB license cost $5.00)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: another flying story |
> Hey Ralph--- I did almost the same stupid thing in my MKIII but I forgot to
> put the safety pin in the wing spar root pin. It wasn't there throughout a 2
> hour X-C, again the friction kept it in place. Boy what a sick feeling that
> gave me. That was one of those times when I had the check list but was in to
Yes you were lucky! On my plane the vibrations are such that one
of my main spar pins vibrates forward on about half of the flights.
There is not much force or wear against the clevis locking clip so I
don't worry about it.
BTW, all of my clevis pins and clips are checked against my 3x5 laminated
checklist card, and touched and spoken to personally after setting my
plane up at the field. I check them again as part of my pre-flights.
I think this is reasonable for a plane that is kept folded. I guess
we all have had experiences where hurrying coulda killed us. Good
reminder!
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Waligroski, Greg" <gwaligro(at)ball.com> |
Well things had been goin' a bit too smooth I guess. Been flying the Kolb
in Colorado since October and have just been having a tremendous time.
We've been having a pretty mild winter in some respects (except that 15F day
where I only lasted 30 minutes right after Christmas) but today was almost
70 so of course I was flying. Some of the other UL's were out at the field
and we were having some fun forming up and doing touch and goes on the grass
strip. Well I had taxied off the cut hay at midfield and had stopped to
strip off the jacket. Jacket off, time to taxi back down to the end of the
field. Can't really see downfield to see who's landing so I lean way
forward to look past that wing (which also makes you push the stick way
forward), can't see anyone, need to turn the plane a bit more to be sure,
still leaning forward, goose the throttle to get moving in the rough, yep
you guessed it, interesting new nose down attitude accompanied by crunching
sound. Created new fresh air vent down around my toes. New respect for
elevator authority. Lesson learned. Taxi back, start trying to figure out
fiberglass repair, luckily the afternoon wind picks up and kills the duct
tape solution idea that's been forming as I bounce back to the hangar. Back
at the hangar I meet the Pitts pilots two spaces down who are chuckling as I
lift the tail up to shake the dirt out of the nose. I tell them I pulled
out of my loop a little too low (for an instant they think about it) and
asked if they ever have that problem...........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb MK III and Siberian Grizzlies |
Hi John: I think it was Experimenter a while ( year ?? ) ago, that had
two articles about those guys. Sure would have liked to have seen that
program. The mono-float, as I recall, is a Full Lotus product. Supposed
to be a little more efficient, but I think I still like the dual floats.
You can get out and stand on them. Thanks for the web-site.
Big Lar.
----------
> From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb MK III and Siberian Grizzlies
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 7:12 PM
>
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> Early last year Dennis Souder posted a short bit of info on
> a couple of Americans that study Grizzlies in Russia. They
> live during the short summer season more than 200 miles from
> the nearest human habitation. Their mode of travel and
> exploration is Kolb MK III on a monofloat.
>
> http://www.norquay.com/grizzlies/index.html
>
> Enjoy,
>
> john h
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | That Sick Feeling |
Hi Group: When I read Michael Highsmith's note about the safety pin, it
reminded me - - - -
One day about 3 yrs. ago, I was flying over Sequim, WA, in a 172. Hit some
pretty solid turbulence, ( and you know what I think about that - worse
then ) got slammed around some, and happened to look out at the left wing.
There was an inch of fresh paint showing below the upper strut fairing ! !
! I could feel my heart clench in my chest, and my stomach knot up + turn
over. I figured the slamming had torn something loose in there, and Mama
Bourne's young ( ?? ) son had had it. Then looked over at right wing, and
it was the same. Realized that they had put new, shorter fairings on, but
for a few seconds............ ! ! ! Big Lar. Do
not archive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aerominas" <aerominas(at)epm.net.co> |
| Subject: | No more E-mail for me, Thanks |
Please, No send me more E-mail.
Thanks.
Atte,
Javier Aristizabal.
Medellin - Colombia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No more E-mail for me, Thanks |
In a message dated 2/15/99 8:07:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aerominas(at)epm.net.co writes:
<< Javier Aristizabal.
Medellin - Colombia.
>>
Senor ...porque no le gusto nuestros groupo??....................GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Home-built liability |
interesting discussion on Home-built liability at
<http://www.avweb.com/toc/avlaw.html>
GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyer114(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb MK III and Siberian Grizzlies Monofloat? |
Don't be too quick about the drawbacks of the mono-float.
I put my Mark III on twin floats and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Being
able to stand on the floats is very nice. However, max speed with the dual
floats and the 582 was 55 MPH. They present a lot of drag.
John Haines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Geezer810(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? |
Hi Ben,
I had an UL license for my phantom "BK" (before Kolb MK III).
I contacted the FCC in Gettysburg, PA and they sent me the appropriate forms.
As I remember, I had to apply for a license for a "powered hang glider".
Anyway, they will tell you what you need. I was issued number N24379U. I was
told to use the word "ultralight" instead of "uniform".
Good Luck
Harry Wingert
Papillion, NE
MKIII N11XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard neilsen" <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Cooling Fans -Reply |
I'm currently flying a MKIII with a 2180cc typeIII VW. I installed scoops on the
top of the engine that force air down over the cylinders and heads via ram air.
I also installed scoops on the bottom of the engine that tend to pull air
thru the cylinders and heads. The top scoops use the standard typeIII cooling
tins that were intended to be fed from the cooling fan. I cut off the front half
of the tins off and added fairly heavy gage aluminum to the front to form a
scoop.
I haven't had any problems cooling the engine. At idle (not moving) I have been
able to verify fairly good air flow through the engine just from the prop. It
is surprising how long it takes after start up before I get the oil temp off
the peg so that I can take off. In the air the ram air effect seems to keep
my engine cool as long a the engine isn't running too lean. In lower temps
less than 50F degrees the engine runs too cool. When I fly in the normal Michigan
winters 0-30F temps I will need to experiment with some form of block off
plate to cut the volume of cooling air flow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PaulSpadin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? |
<<
> OK, finally I've gotten myself radio equipped. I'm wondering what
> is typical for UL operators as far as use of call letters. In >>
I just use "blue" or red or whatever "ultralight "and my location in the
pattern.
I will usually give them my airspeed so they don't run over me..
that is what they need to avoid me, and thats the reason I use the radio. I
also do the pattern at full speed to avoid someone running up my rear from air
rage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
Larry,
A couple months ago you asked about vortex generators on a Kolb.
I didn't respond but if I had I would have said I don't think they would
do anything because ultralight wings are usually not very laminar anyway.
But yesterday I saw a Flightstar 2-place down at Turlock with the
Vgenerators on. The guy that put them on said it reduced the stall
speed from 35 to 28or29. That's pretty significant! As expected,
no change in cruise. As is suggested by the Vgen company, some
experimentation was required to get the correct % of cord placement.
BTW, this Flightstar's wing was dacron, not Stits, so was already
kind of bumpy ...even more surprise to me that the Vgens helped.
I of course have no idea how they would effect a Kolb wing. They are
kind of ugly -- look like an afterthought, which they are -- but
for that good a stall speed improvement it might be worth it.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
Howdy all,
The net broke to my ISP so I might have missed some mail since Sun
night.
Thanks for the tips on radio ops. I didn't get the "oh what a
good guy" response on my first transmits. Some guy -- i believe
in a Pitts in the runup area -- started asking pestering questions
when I was on short final. Without identifying himself: "you even got
a compass in that thing?" I wondered briefly if I had stated the wrong
runway, but no. He asked some other sort of mocking question
and I thought that was pretty crass, being I'm now on short final.
I still expect this to turn out better, but was a little surprised.
Also got to hear some soap-opera type squabbling between two other guys at
same airport because one descended over the other when he shouldn't have.
All this is sorta new to me. Dialing in ATIS is nice. Found my 1st
"maybe" destination was fog bound so deviated to make my day's route
counter-clockwise instead of clockwise. From a radio check I find I
am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power. Maybe this gave me away as a
newbie to the Pitts driver. Anyway, I'll go to a full 22.5" antenna and
will maybe change to the low electrical noise spark plugs for starters.
Any comments on those spark plugs?
Otherwise had a nice long flight day ...a little over 200 miles in
round-trip XC plus sightseeing deviations from course. Landed at Oakdale
to find they had removed the gas pumps. Had to decide whether to fly next
leg to Lodi (40-50 minutes depending on wind) with remaining fuel, about
60 minutes till dry. Other option was to detour to a slightly closer field
but in opposite direction of home, which woulda made getting home before
dark questionable. Chose 1st option after convincing myself I wasn't
trying the impossible, only to arrive at the next point (Lodi) to find "NO
AVGAS" signs draped over their pumps. Removed tank and walked 1/4 mile
to Texaco. No problem, but i flew about the straightest GPS line possible
on that Oakdale to Lodi leg. 4.4 hrs on the day, slept real well last night.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Smart" <gsmart(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
Hi Ben,
I'm not sure what engine you are running,but in reference to changing spark
plugs, Note if you change from say B8ES to BR8ES on a Rotax etc you should
change the Spark Plug cap.
They are of a different resistance and if you use the standard plastic with
resistor plugs you can have problems.
Check out the site and look up the service bulletins on plugs and ignition.
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Geoff
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 1999 4:12
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL radio operations? etc
>
>Howdy all,
>The net broke to my ISP so I might have missed some mail since Sun
>night.
>
>Thanks for the tips on radio ops. I didn't get the "oh what a
>good guy" response on my first transmits. Some guy -- i believe
>in a Pitts in the runup area -- started asking pestering questions
>when I was on short final. Without identifying himself: "you even got
>a compass in that thing?" I wondered briefly if I had stated the wrong
>runway, but no. He asked some other sort of mocking question
>and I thought that was pretty crass, being I'm now on short final.
>I still expect this to turn out better, but was a little surprised.
>Also got to hear some soap-opera type squabbling between two other guys at
>same airport because one descended over the other when he shouldn't have.
>All this is sorta new to me. Dialing in ATIS is nice. Found my 1st
>"maybe" destination was fog bound so deviated to make my day's route
>counter-clockwise instead of clockwise. From a radio check I find I
>am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power. Maybe this gave me away as a
>newbie to the Pitts driver. Anyway, I'll go to a full 22.5" antenna and
>will maybe change to the low electrical noise spark plugs for starters.
>Any comments on those spark plugs?
>
>Otherwise had a nice long flight day ...a little over 200 miles in
>round-trip XC plus sightseeing deviations from course. Landed at Oakdale
>to find they had removed the gas pumps. Had to decide whether to fly next
>leg to Lodi (40-50 minutes depending on wind) with remaining fuel, about
>60 minutes till dry. Other option was to detour to a slightly closer field
>but in opposite direction of home, which woulda made getting home before
>dark questionable. Chose 1st option after convincing myself I wasn't
>trying the impossible, only to arrive at the next point (Lodi) to find "NO
>AVGAS" signs draped over their pumps. Removed tank and walked 1/4 mile
>to Texaco. No problem, but i flew about the straightest GPS line possible
>on that Oakdale to Lodi leg. 4.4 hrs on the day, slept real well last
night.
>
>-Ben Ransom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
Geoff Smart wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> I'm not sure what engine you are running,but in reference to changing spark
> plugs, Note if you change from say B8ES to BR8ES on a Rotax etc you should
> change the Spark Plug cap.
>
Geoff, Ben and Gang:
This is my on personal experience with RF noise and Rotax 2
strokes. It worked well, reduced RF noise and got my radio
a lot of compliments from real airplane pilots and FAA
controllers. They would even say that my radio sounded like
a real airplane radio. I liked that. hehehe ;-)
1. Never hesitated to run resistor plugs without changing
caps. My best set up was Bosch plug wire set for about a 75
Volvo 4 cyl. Had metal covered spark plug caps. Cost about
$25 per set. These were also resistor caps.
2. Bosch Platinum Plugs - WR4CP (these are resistor plugs)
3. Often interpreted as spark plug or ignition noise if
alternator noise. If a large capacitor is installed in the
12V regulated side of reg/rec to the positive and negative
wire, alternator noise will also disappear. Alternator
noise is enough to completely overcome a VHF radio. You
will be able to transmit but not receive over the RF noise
of alternator.
OK, now I am no rocket scientist and I can only back up what
I am saying by having flown many hours with Rotax 2 cyl eng
with resistor caps and resistor plugs. Never once fell out
of the sky because of this combination. To clean up all
that noise, the three things above have been proven to do it
and cheap. I used to get a chuckle at LEAF, CPS, and the
other UL Parts Houses selling all that shielding for wire,
modules, etc. Once early on they came out with a lead box
to put the old coils in. Charged some outrageous price and
smiled when you handed them all that money.
If I can do it without support these over priced critters, I
will. Living on a little retirement requires that I be a
little conservative with my spending. I like doing things
myself if I can. I am forever redoing what the Dodge shop
does to my truck.
Hope you can use some of this info. It took a lot of time
and effort to come up with a workable solution for RF noise
problem in my ULs.
john h
BTW: Geoff, are you building a Kolb or a Titan?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ben, Geoff is right about the plugs. If you use a resister plug it will
double the resistance to the spark and it will be hard to crank in less than
10 hours, at lest that is what happened to my 503. The noise is coming from
the high voltage wires going to the plugs. I had shielded everything on my
plane except those and it didn't do any good to help lower the noise. Then
the old A+ACY-P at the strip where I hanger told me to try shielding the plug
wires and to cover the plugs caps with some copper screen wire making sure
to ground the shielding and cap cover. I couldn't believe the difference in
clarity. I still get the spark noise although muffled if I turn the squelch
up but I don't have too anymore because my little A-22 will pick up and
transmit sometimes for 50-60 miles. Sometimes it will even pick up for
150-200 miles. Before the shielding I couldn't transmit across the runway
without all the static from the plug wires. Also I switched to GA headsets,
that made even a bigger difference.
I use a home made antenna made from SS welding rod and some parts from Radio
Shack.
I tried one of the store bought antennas paid +ACQ-50 for it and it broke off
when a bush tapped it one day on takeoff. The whole antenna I made cost less
than +ACQ-10 and it is almost indestructible. Anyway you get the picture I hope.
Yes, there is always one of those smart-A--s some where in the sky or on
the ground. I usually talk to them like I know what I,m doing 'cause they
don't know that I don't know sometimes.
There is an old saying that goes+ACI- People don't know what you think they
know+ACI-. I've found that to be true in many cases.----Later FIREHAWK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ben, Geoff is right about the plugs. If you use a resister plug it will
double the resistance to the spark and it will be hard to crank in less than
10 hours, at lest that is what happened to my 503. The noise is coming from
the high voltage wires going to the plugs. I had shielded everything on my
plane except those and it didn't do any good to help lower the noise. Then
the old A+ACY-P at the strip where I hanger told me to try shielding the plug
wires and to cover the plugs caps with some copper screen wire making sure
to ground the shielding and cap cover. I couldn't believe the difference in
clarity. I still get the spark noise although muffled if I turn the squelch
up but I don't have too anymore because my little A-22 will pick up and
transmit sometimes for 50-60 miles. Sometimes it will even pick up for
150-200 miles. Before the shielding I couldn't transmit across the runway
without all the static from the plug wires. Also I switched to GA headsets,
that made even a bigger difference. Get this now, my wingman has an old
Terra radio in his Challenger with GA headset with no shielding and nothing
special on the engine and John can attest to this that he has one of the
clearest radios in any Ultralight. Go figure. It has a lot to do with the
radio you have also. My Icom would even pick up some noise from my GPS and
only on 122.750. We had to use 122.850 air to air just so we could talk at
any distance.
I change to a different GPS and the noise went away. By the way all my
shielding cost me about +ACQ-5. I stripped it off an old set of Lycoming wires.
I get about 50-75 hours on a set of plugs before I have to replace them.
I use a home made antenna made from SS welding rod and some parts from Radio
Shack.
I tried one of the store bought antennas paid +ACQ-50 for it and it broke off
when a bush tapped it one day on takeoff. The whole antenna I made cost less
than +ACQ-10 and it is almost indestructible. Anyway you get the picture I hope.
Yes, there is always one of those smart-A--s some where in the sky or on
the ground. I usually talk to them like I know what I'm doing 'cause they
don't know that I don't know sometimes.
There is an old saying that goes+ACI- People don't know what you think they
know+ACI-. I've found that to be true in many cases.----Later FIREHAWK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Ben
I believe that the fella that sells them does so on the premise that it
will help reduce stall. That would be the most beneficial to me. Some of
the places that I land would be a lot more pleasant at a slower speed.
Hopefully this new input will spur a bit of discussion. I'm not sure that
many of us could do much more than speculate although I would welcome that,
it would be real nice if Dennis could lend us his thoughts and wisdom on
the matter. (one would hope that it wouldn't be percieved as a insult to
even suggest that the wing would benefit from additions) hint hint :-)
Larry
----------
> From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
> To: lcottrel(at)kfalls.net
> Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators
> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:44 AM
> But yesterday I saw a Flightstar 2-place down at Turlock with the
> Vgenerators on. The guy that put them on said it reduced the stall
> speed from 35 to 28or29. That's pretty significant! > I of course have
no idea how they would effect a Kolb wing. They are
> kind of ugly -- look like an afterthought, which they are -- but
> for that good a stall speed improvement it might be worth it.
>
> -Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Gang:
Rick Liberstadt requested some photos of my raditor and oil
cooler set up on MK III.
I got them scanned Rick, but I have lost your email
address. If you want these pics please send me the address,
or anyone else who has it.
Thanks a bunch gang. Sorry to use of the band width this
way.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Email Address |
John
If you would send it to RICK106(at)JUNO.COM or RICKN106(at)AOL.COM
Thanks sorry about the late reply back to you I just came in from
working on my plane
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hi Gang:
>
>Rick Liberstadt requested some photos of my raditor and oil
>cooler set up on MK III.
>
>I got them scanned Rick, but I have lost your email
>address. If you want these pics please send me the address,
>or anyone else who has it.
>
>Thanks a bunch gang. Sorry to use of the band width this
>way.
>
>john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? |
my 2 cents worth ------- ben, i just got my dang self radio equipped.
when at controlled airports, that allow ultralights, i say - such and such
traffic ,ultralight aircraft entering pattern for left/right downwind at _____
ft. for runway ____. i don't use numbers for my plane, never will. using
numbers on an ultralight has too much of an conformist ring to it . happy
trails ........................... tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Email Address |
JOHN
SEND IT TO RICKN106(at)AOL.COM JUNO could not open it
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hi Gang:
>
>Rick Liberstadt requested some photos of my raditor and oil
>cooler set up on MK III.
>
>I got them scanned Rick, but I have lost your email
>address. If you want these pics please send me the address,
>or anyone else who has it.
>
>Thanks a bunch gang. Sorry to use of the band width this
>way.
>
>john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply |
richard, in your posting about using a type 3 engine on your plane you say
that you installed scoops on the underside of the cylinders. my question is -
how does that increase cooling efficiency ? for example, do you have the scoops
vented to in front of the prop ? i figure having the scoops on the underside
vented to in front of the prop would create a negative pressure area uder the
cylinders and the scoops on the top would create a positive pressure area. is
my assumption correct ? ........................ tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Smart" <gsmart(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
John , Ben and other,
The following pages have some great tips to look at
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/trrtx1.htm
and this page gives the info on resistor plugs.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/buzfixb.html
The other place to look is CPS catalogue page 266 1997 issue you will see
that both the caps have a inbuilt resistance, but one is greater that the
other i.e the universal type usually supplied with engine has 5000 ohm and
is to be used with standard B8ES plugs and the metal type 1000 ohms is for
the BR8ES type and you can see that the effect of using both the 5000 ohm
and also the resistor plugs, you will be getting less spark to the engine.
Not the desired effect we want.
Also the LEAF catalogue page 157 1996/7 issue it shows the type of wire,
shielding, and plug info.
One of the greatest area's for interference is the ignition grounding wire
that we run usually with all the other wire including with wiring of our
radios, all bunched together in the same loom.
If you separate the ignition kill wires and use 2 core shielded cable this
will stop most of the static.
Mikes method also works very well, so if you use both the cost would be less
that changing your plugs and caps and the radio should sound like a Bose
Home Sound system. ( well almost)
I don't think that because, a company puts a item in a catalogue they are
trying to rip of their customers I have found that they want to keep us
flying and as safe as possible, and would have experienced more, than all
of us put together.
As for the http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/trrtx1.htm
page they have nothing to gain, except to inform us all, with a wealth of
information and experience and make 0 $ out of it.
Geoff MAD MAX
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 1999 9:11
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL radio operations? etc
>
>
>Geoff Smart wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> I'm not sure what engine you are running,but in reference to changing
spark
>> plugs, Note if you change from say B8ES to BR8ES on a Rotax etc you
should
>> change the Spark Plug cap.
>>
>
>Geoff, Ben and Gang:
>
>This is my on personal experience with RF noise and Rotax 2
>strokes. It worked well, reduced RF noise and got my radio
>a lot of compliments from real airplane pilots and FAA
>controllers. They would even say that my radio sounded like
>a real airplane radio. I liked that. hehehe ;-)
>
>1. Never hesitated to run resistor plugs without changing
>caps. My best set up was Bosch plug wire set for about a 75
>Volvo 4 cyl. Had metal covered spark plug caps. Cost about
>$25 per set. These were also resistor caps.
>
>2. Bosch Platinum Plugs - WR4CP (these are resistor plugs)
>
>3. Often interpreted as spark plug or ignition noise if
>alternator noise. If a large capacitor is installed in the
>12V regulated side of reg/rec to the positive and negative
>wire, alternator noise will also disappear. Alternator
>noise is enough to completely overcome a VHF radio. You
>will be able to transmit but not receive over the RF noise
>of alternator.
>
>OK, now I am no rocket scientist and I can only back up what
>I am saying by having flown many hours with Rotax 2 cyl eng
>with resistor caps and resistor plugs. Never once fell out
>of the sky because of this combination. To clean up all
>that noise, the three things above have been proven to do it
>and cheap. I used to get a chuckle at LEAF, CPS, and the
>other UL Parts Houses selling all that shielding for wire,
>modules, etc. Once early on they came out with a lead box
>to put the old coils in. Charged some outrageous price and
>smiled when you handed them all that money.
>
>If I can do it without support these over priced critters, I
>will. Living on a little retirement requires that I be a
>little conservative with my spending. I like doing things
>myself if I can. I am forever redoing what the Dodge shop
>does to my truck.
>
>Hope you can use some of this info. It took a lot of time
>and effort to come up with a workable solution for RF noise
>problem in my ULs.
>
>john h
>
>BTW: Geoff, are you building a Kolb or a Titan?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Radio antenna question for Ben, and others |
Ben wrote:
> From a radio check I find I
>am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power. Maybe this gave me away as a
>newbie to the Pitts driver. Anyway, I'll go to a full 22.5" antenna
Ben, what antenna have you been using? I hope you are going to tell us you
were using the rubber-duckie on your hand-held. If you could get moderate
success with the duckie, I am sure you (and I) will be very happy with the
results of using a belly-mounted whip (the plane's belly, not your own)
with ground-plane.
My calculations show to use 24.5" for the center of the AC band. Did I do
something wrong? BTW, where does one start measuring the length, where it
exits the BNC connector back-end, or at the ground plane?
My BNC connector that is epoxied to the antenna whip is about an inch tall
off the ground plane.
My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
supplier, very good prices.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Firestar vs. Kitfox II |
Hey Gang,
I have been playing observer for awhile. Since then I have purchased a
Kitfox II. I have done quite a bit of work to and had a blast learning
how to cover with Stits.
HOWEVER, I still have my Firestar that has been folded for several
weeks. Yesterday, I had an interested party wanting to see me fly the
Firestar. Within the last three weeks I have been flying a Champ and
the Kitfox. I jumped into the Firestar and was astonished at how easy
it is to fly. My demo flight turned into a two hour flight. It think
the guy finally got tired and left. Oh, well.. anyone want to buy a
nice Kitfox?
During my demo, I did several engine off landings, full cross
controling, slow flight, steep banked turns, one wheel landings, etc. I
flew till dark.
Regards,
Rutledge Fuller (owner of nice looking junk and a Firestar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Billy Jones <bjones8103(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
I have a friend on the fly-u/l list who has v.g.s on his airbike
(airbikes have the reputation of sinking like rocks). They reduced
his stall significantly, but can't remember the numbers. He paid 400+
bucks for them and installation is all trail and error. My Firestar
II stalls at about 38 MPH. I've thought about trying them myself.
Anyone else experience higher than published stall speeds with
Firestars? BJones - Houston
---Larry & Karen Cottrel wrote:
>
>
> Ben
> I believe that the fella that sells them does so on the premise that
it
> will help reduce stall. That would be the most beneficial to me.
Some of
> the places that I land would be a lot more pleasant at a slower speed.
> Hopefully this new input will spur a bit of discussion. I'm not sure
that
> many of us could do much more than speculate although I would
welcome that,
> it would be real nice if Dennis could lend us his thoughts and
wisdom on
> the matter. (one would hope that it wouldn't be percieved as a
insult to
> even suggest that the wing would benefit from additions) hint hint
:-)
> Larry
>
> ----------
> > From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
> > To: lcottrel(at)kfalls.net
> > Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators
> > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:44 AM
>
> > But yesterday I saw a Flightstar 2-place down at Turlock with the
> > Vgenerators on. The guy that put them on said it reduced the stall
> > speed from 35 to 28or29. That's pretty significant! > I of
course have
> no idea how they would effect a Kolb wing. They are
> > kind of ugly -- look like an afterthought, which they are -- but
> > for that good a stall speed improvement it might be worth it.
> >
> > -Ben Ransom
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply |
>
>
> richard, in your posting about using a type 3 engine on your plane
you say
>that you installed scoops on the underside of the cylinders. my question
is -
>how does that increase cooling efficiency ? for example, do you have the
scoops
>vented to in front of the prop ? i figure having the scoops on the underside
>vented to in front of the prop would create a negative pressure area uder the
>cylinders and the scoops on the top would create a positive pressure area.
is
>my assumption correct ? ........................ tim
>
My .02 cents on cooling the VW,
The optimum air flow thru the cylinder fins is from the bottom thru to the
top.
This because a major part of the heat disapation is from the hot oil flowing
from the heads thru the pushrod tubes back to the crankcase. Cool air in at
the bottom, past the pushrod tubes up thru the cylinders and out the top for
optimum cooling.
But if the other way works ok for you fine, the above is optimun for extreme
heat conditions though.
|
_____|_____
*=============================R===============================*
\ /
\ /
(/---\)
\___/
/ \
() ()
Eugene Zimmerman
E-town, PA.
377 Firestar
582 Mk 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ToddThom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Since everybody has an opinion on V.G.'s I thought I'd add what I've read or
heard or dreamed on the subject. The idea, as most of you know is to delay
the boundary layer separation and subsequent stall of a wing. This can be
done using various means. We've seen wing tip installations of agwagons,
Cessnas (droop tip) and 747's and Vareze type aircraft. But here's a new type
I came across through a NASA paper written some years back.
First off, the Kolb FS and FF wing tips are tapered, right? That is that the
trailing edge is wider in span than the leading edge. I think this correct.
I have a MKIII and haven't actually taken a close look at these aircraft.
This taper provides for a delay of the high pressure air bleeding up and over
the tip in slow, high angle of attack configurations. Adding a tip V.G. would
probably delay the separation further as some of you have indicated. And I
agree that usually these look like an after thought.
Here's another V.G configuration which is very non-obtrusive and supposedly
works very well. Since I can't draw this you'll have to follow my
instructions carefully to visualize the construction. I'll apologize now so
you all won't verbally abuse me later.
OK, this V.G is quite small and is placed/installed at the trailing edge
outside corner of the wing - not on the aileron. It consists of three plates,
each 2" x 4" welded onto a 3" (could be less or more) pipe cut length-wise in
half. This half pipe should have an inside diameter slightly greater than your
wing tip bow pipe. The plates are welded on this pipe using the 2" dimension
and at 20 degree separation. To visualize this turn your hand to you palm
facing and grab your pinky finger with your thumb. So you now have three
fingers up. Take your third finger and turning your hand make it horizontal -
palm still facing you. Your fingers will be displaying approximately 20
degree separation. This is the welding / mounting orientation of the 2" x 4"
plates will have when you attach this V.G. to your aircraft wing tip. The
bottom plate is horizontal and parallel to the bottom of the wing with each
successive plate sticking up towards verticle at 20 degree increments. The
nice thing about this V.G. is that you could test attach it using duck tape
(referred to as "THE FORCE" because it has both a light side and the DARK
SIDE). With a little creativity you could rig them to ease removal and
installation so they wouldn't get in the way of folding the wings for storage
or trailering.
These generators could be dangerous to a passerby so you may want to flag
them when you're on the ground or remove them altogether.
Anyway, I thought you'd be interested in one more idea. If anybody has any
first hand experience with these little gems I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks and I hope this all makes sence... gulp!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio antenna question for Ben, and others |
gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
> supplier, very good prices.
> jim
Hi Jim and Gang:
What brand lexan, GE?
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: [Fwd: Needle warning] |
-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Davis <wf4x@aic-fl.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: [Fwd: Needle warning]
>Dear all: I received this warning this am, please be AWARE,
>
>Memorial Hospital Pasadena
>Director of Business and Physician Development
>
>BE CAREFUL AT MOVIE THEATRES! PLEASE CHECK YOUR CHAIRS!
>
>An incident occurred when a friend's co-worker went to sit in a chair and
>something was poking her. She then got up and found that it was a needle
>with a little note at the end. It said, "Welcome to the real world,
you're,
>"HIV POSITIVE". Doctors tested the needle and it was HIV POSITIVE.
>
>"BE CAUTIOUS WHEN GOING TO THE MOVIES!" IF YOU MUST GO TO THE MOVIES,
>PLEASE, PLEASE CHECK! One of the safest ways is NOT sticking your hands
>between the seats, but at least, move the seat part way up and down a few
>times and REALLY LOOK! Most of us just plop down into the seats.....
>
>The following information was E-Mailed to all employees of the Metro
Police
>Department this morning, 11/3/98. Drug users are now taking their used
>needles and putting them into the coin return slots in public telephones.
>People are putting their fingers in to recover coins or just to check if
>anyone left change. They are getting stuck by these needles and infected
>with hepatitis, HIV and other diseases. This message is posted to make
>everyone aware of this danger. Be aware! The change isn't worth it!
>This information came straight from phone company workers, through the EMT
>instructor.
>
>Make sure you share this information with your family and any one else you
>can!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard neilsen" <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply -Reply |
My .02 cents on cooling the VW,
<<>>>
Yes. The very optimum cooling is updraft cooling... In my case the engine came
as a long block from Great Planes Aircraft with the cooling "things" installed
on the bottom of the cylinders and would need the push rod tubes removed to move
them to the top for updraft cooling. I was also concerned the ram air flow
might not being as good down close to the gap seal on the top of the wing. Any
way, the cooling system works.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [Fwd: Needle warning] |
Lindy wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darryl Davis <wf4x@aic-fl.com>
>
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:00 PM
> Subject: [Fwd: Needle warning]
>
> >Dear all: I received this warning this am, please be AWARE,
> >
Mornin Lindy:
Thanks for the info.
Are you and Chuck going to try and make the Shady Bend flyin
6 and 7 March on the Suwanee River. I think I am going to
try and make it, weather, machine, and body willing.
Hope you are yours are doing fine.
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [Fwd: Needle warning] |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Lindy wrote:
Sorry Guys:
I screwed up again. This was to go back copy to Lindy, but
............
john h (back in the corner again)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio antenna question for Ben, and others |
> Ben wrote:
> > From a radio check I find I
> >am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power. Maybe this gave me away as a
> >newbie to the Pitts driver. Anyway, I'll go to a full 22.5" antenna
>
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
> Ben, what antenna have you been using? I hope you are going to tell us you
> were using the rubber-duckie on your hand-held. If you could get moderate
>
> My calculations show to use 24.5" for the center of the AC band. Did I do
> something wrong? BTW, where does one start measuring the length, where it
> exits the BNC connector back-end, or at the ground plane?
> My BNC connector that is epoxied to the antenna whip is about an inch tall
> off the ground plane.
Jim,
I started out with a belly antenna, 22.5" long to an AL floor pan/ground
plane. Checking back to my original technical source on this, his note
was "The antenna should be 22.5 - 23.5 inches. The measurement is from the
tip ......to the point that the rod becomes surrounded by any other metal."
This is from Jim Vroom -- a great guy I found in Dallas who does all the
headset stuff there for AmericanAirlines. He is a great source for
the wiring/headset/mic/PTT adaptable to a Delcomm handheld. He also
flies a 4stroke Hyperlight.
My problem is that I got annoyed with the 22" poking into storage
boxes in my garage everytime I pushed the plane in or backed it
out, so I clipped it short to ~12" ....hoping some thoughts about
1/2 wave being okay as I grabbed the dyke cutters. Yeah, I shoulda
found a new place for the boxes, and have already bought the pieces
to make a new 23" antenna. All my engine monitoring and kill
wires are single shielded, and my radio wires are not in same bundle.
I used shielded when I first put the plane together, anticipating
future radio. I had found the shielded wiring bundles free from some
phone/network closet discard pile.
I'll be moving to some of the good suggestions posted. Thanks again
everybody. You're making this easy so I look forward to going down
to Byron to say hello to that Pitts driver again.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
Hi Gang,
Ben wrote:
> From a radio check I find I am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power.
I think the scratchy transmission may be the microphone picking up the
exhaust and prop noise. I have gotten my recieve noise very low with the
shielding of wires and by using resistor plugs. But, the transmission noise
seems to still be there. BTW, I use the ICOM A21 radio with David Clark
headset with the boom mic.
Would welcome any other opinions.
BTW, the trip sounded like a lot of fun.
Vince Nicely
Firestar II, ~210 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL radio operations? etc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UL radio operations? etc |
Vince, and gang I use an Icom A-22 with Flight Com 4dl headset and I have
very little TX noise with shielding of high tension wires and regular B8ES
plugs.----Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Vince Nicely <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL radio operations? etc
>
>Hi Gang,
>
>Ben wrote:
> > From a radio check I find I am "scratchy" on Xmit at cruise power.
>I think the scratchy transmission may be the microphone picking up the
>exhaust and prop noise. I have gotten my recieve noise very low with the
>shielding of wires and by using resistor plugs. But, the transmission
noise
>seems to still be there. BTW, I use the ICOM A21 radio with David Clark
>headset with the boom mic.
>
>Would welcome any other opinions.
>
>BTW, the trip sounded like a lot of fun.
>
>Vince Nicely
>Firestar II, ~210 hours
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
>To: Kolb
>Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 3:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL radio operations? etc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
>
>Ben
>I believe that the fella that sells them does so on the premise that it
>will help reduce stall. That would be the most beneficial to me. Some of
>the places that I land would be a lot more pleasant at a slower speed.
>Hopefully this new input will spur a bit of discussion.
I don't know if it was on this list or not but awhile back there was a
discussion of putting bumps on the prop as a vortex generator. One way of
finding the right spot was painting your prop with dirty oil and running it
up to full speed even fly for a bit. When you come down look at the prop and
you should be able to see where the airflow is separating. Perhaps the same
idea would work on the wing.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply |
>
>
> richard, in your posting about using a type 3 engine on your plane
you say
>that you installed scoops on the underside of the cylinders. my question is -
>how does that increase cooling efficiency ?
I may be speaking out of turn here but wouldn't putting the scoops on the
underside be the logical place to put them? Hot air rises so with the cool
air entering the bottom the air will move past the cylinders via convection
currents. Also there will be an assist with the prop sucking some of the air
out of the top scoops.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
This technic is used to find the separation on glider wings
Ron
>
>>
>>Ben
>>I believe that the fella that sells them does so on the premise that it
>>will help reduce stall. That would be the most beneficial to me. Some of
>>the places that I land would be a lot more pleasant at a slower speed.
>>Hopefully this new input will spur a bit of discussion.
>
> I don't know if it was on this list or not but awhile back there was a
>discussion of putting bumps on the prop as a vortex generator. One way of
>finding the right spot was painting your prop with dirty oil and running it
>up to full speed even fly for a bit. When you come down look at the prop and
>you should be able to see where the airflow is separating. Perhaps the same
>idea would work on the wing.
>
> Woody
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply |
wood wrote:
>
Hot air rises so with the cool
> air entering the bottom the air will move past the cylinders via convection
>
> Woody
>
Woody and gang:
I buy that. Might also need to look at how the air is going
to flow over the wing in powered flight. You can contact
Kolb Aircraft Wind Tunnel test facility in the basement of
the barn. hehehe ;-)
john h (watching a winter storm come ripping thru hauck's
holler just in time for our UL Club fly breakfast Saturday
morning)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Fans -Reply |
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, wood wrote:
> I may be speaking out of turn here but wouldn't putting the scoops on the
> underside be the logical place to put them? Hot air rises so with the cool
> air entering the bottom the air will move past the cylinders via convection
> currents. Also there will be an assist with the prop sucking some of the air
> out of the top scoops.
>
> Woody
You mean we're suppose to be taking turns?! ;)
IMO, any other airflows while the engine is running better be strong
enf to make convection negligible. In other words, I doubt there is
a combustion engine alive that gets more than 1% of its cooling from
convection alone. ...to be honest I'm sitting here wondering if a
steam locomotive makes me wrong here ...but that's another list I
think.
Way more important is scoop location, shape, and size -- on inlet,
outlet, and cross-sectional area at the heat source. I agree with
JH that airflow due to wing may make unexpected results as
to where to find the the most high and low pressure. But here too you
probably get plenty of flow while moving in the sky and need to
worry most about getting minimal flow while taxiing, i.e. when
there is not much happening from the wing. For this, IMO, it boils
down to how much the propellor draws. Like I said earlier, this
idea sucks. It has to. ;)
-Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [Fwd: Needle warning] |
A
>>BE CAREFUL AT MOVIE THEATRES! PLEASE CHECK YOUR CHAIRS!
>>
>
There are web pages for this type of pertinent information. Please do a
search for Urban Legends and post it there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
About 1/2 hour ago, I re-read a bit in Peter Garrison's column in the Jan '
99 " Flying" mag. It's titled " Wingfingers", and I flagged it to look up
in tonights session after going through the list. Lo and behold, one of
the 1st is Todd's message about the small, visualized V.G.'s. An outfit in
Switzerland, researching the surprising efficiency of Vulture wings, came
up with a concept called "wing grids." Goes into the splayed tip feathers
on the birds' wings, and lists a web-site at www.roche.ch
Haven't looked at it myself yet, so it's pot luck, but sounds interesting.
Article starts on page 108, and is mostly on page 109. Sounds like an
evolution of my visualization of Todd's plates. FWIW,
when I first read an article that sounds interesting, I hi-lite it, flag
the page with a small post-it note, then re-read it later on the throne.
Those that I want to refer to later, I mark with a larger post-it with a
title, for easy reference. Big Lar.
>
>
> Here's another V.G configuration which is very non-obtrusive and
supposedly
> works very well. Since I can't draw this you'll have to follow my
> instructions carefully to visualize the construction. I'll apologize now
so
> you all won't verbally abuse me later.
>
> OK, this V.G is quite small and is placed/installed at the trailing edge
> outside corner of the wing - not on the aileron. It consists of three
plates,
> each 2" x 4" welded onto a 3" (could be less or more) pipe cut
length-wise in
> half. This half pipe should have an inside diameter slightly greater than
your
> wing tip bow pipe. The plates are welded on this pipe using the 2"
dimension
> and at 20 degree separation. To visualize this turn your hand to you
palm
> facing and grab your pinky finger with your thumb. So you now have three
> fingers up. Take your third finger and turning your hand make it
horizontal -
> palm still facing you. Your fingers will be displaying approximately 20
> degree separation. This is the welding / mounting orientation of the 2"
x 4"
> plates will have when you attach this V.G. to your aircraft wing tip.
The
> bottom plate is horizontal and parallel to the bottom of the wing with
each
> successive plate sticking up towards verticle at 20 degree increments.
The
> nice thing about this V.G. is that you could test attach it using duck
tape
> (referred to as "THE FORCE" because it has both a light side and the DARK
> SIDE). With a little creativity you could rig them to ease removal and
> installation so they wouldn't get in the way of folding the wings for
storage
> or trailering.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
after talking to many people, and reading the kolb articles, I have
chosen the kolb firestar . (I,am not too bias) I will probably purchase the
ultralight at the show in wi. in july. I hope they have a show special, if not
only to raise prices first, otherwise I will purchase sooner. I,am still in
the market for a good used ultralight in the mean time so I can start flying
and building at the same time. I know I will have about $12,000.00 in it with
a BRS. I like to hear from some of the other firestar owners on what dollar
amount they have in their ultralights for some of the basic equiptment so I
know what to expect as a ballpark figure without going nuts on a lot of
instruments.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
excelsior,mn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
That's probably close but may be on the light side, can't forget paint.
What size BRS chute you putting in it. Depending what engine a 500# chute
make be to small unless you want a higher decent rate. We got $14K in our
FireFly but then we have the sink and the garbage disposal.
Jerry
>
> after talking to many people, and reading the kolb articles, I have
>chosen the kolb firestar . (I,am not too bias) I will probably purchase the
>ultralight at the show in wi. in july. I hope they have a show special, if
not
>only to raise prices first, otherwise I will purchase sooner. I,am still in
>the market for a good used ultralight in the mean time so I can start flying
>and building at the same time. I know I will have about $12,000.00 in it
with
>a BRS. I like to hear from some of the other firestar owners on what dollar
>amount they have in their ultralights for some of the basic equiptment so I
>know what to expect as a ballpark figure without going nuts on a lot of
>instruments.
>
> thanks,
> Gary r. voigt
> excelsior,mn.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/18/99 12:10:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jbidle(at)airmail.net writes:
<< I like to hear from some of the other firestar owners on what dollar
>amount they have in their ultralights for some of the basic equiptment s >>
I have about $13,500 in my FS I, but it has 503 DCDI, 3 Blade Warp Prop, "C"
Box, Brakes, Strobe, EIS Instrument, etc., etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs. Kitfox II |
Hey Rut,
Sure did bring a grin to my face reading your post. I've always been
curious about Mk III vs Kitfox comparisons. With a customer testimonial
such as what you just posted, the good ol Kolb Co ought to feel pretty
happy. I'm saving this one.
-Ben Ransom
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Rutledge Fuller wrote:
> Hey Gang,
>
> I have been playing observer for awhile. Since then I have purchased a
> Kitfox II. I have done quite a bit of work to and had a blast learning
> how to cover with Stits.
>
> HOWEVER, I still have my Firestar that has been folded for several
> weeks. Yesterday, I had an interested party wanting to see me fly the
> Firestar. Within the last three weeks I have been flying a Champ and
> the Kitfox. I jumped into the Firestar and was astonished at how easy
> it is to fly. My demo flight turned into a two hour flight. It think
> the guy finally got tired and left. Oh, well.. anyone want to buy a
> nice Kitfox?
>
> During my demo, I did several engine off landings, full cross
> controling, slow flight, steep banked turns, one wheel landings, etc. I
> flew till dark.
>
> Regards,
> Rutledge Fuller (owner of nice looking junk and a Firestar)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | John asked: "What brand Lexan?" |
>> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
>> supplier, very good prices.
>> jim
>
>
>Hi Jim and Gang:
>
>What brand lexan, GE?
>
>john h
Yes John, GE lexan, new, with plastic sheet protector on each surface,
0.060" thickness, $2.80 per square foot, plus shipping ( I live a hundred
miles from Cadillac Plastics). This pc was cut for me out of a new sheet.
The salesman suggested the price would be less if he could have found a
"drop sheet" which I understood to mean scrap from some other order.
It will make fine new side windows, between the rear-edge of the doors and
the front-edge of my new fiberglass and Kevlar side pod enclosure panels.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John asked: "What brand Lexan?" |
gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
>
>
> >> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
> >> supplier, very good prices.
> >> jim
> >
Snip
Hey guys,
Where is this Cadillac Plastics???
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
thanks, for the info. ooops!!! thats why I asked, I did forget paint,
I,am kind of cheap. I better save a little more.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
excelsior,mn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
thanks, for the info
Gary r. voigt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com> |
| Subject: | Pancaked Firestar |
I found a Firestar that was "Dropped in" from about 30 ft. The owner said he
lost the engine due to fuel starvation, got distracted during his landing,
lost airspeed and stalled. He said it came straight down wings level on the
main gear. He was not injured, but the main gear was spread out with damage
to the cage at the gear attachment point at each side. He said he has
repaired the cage but has not finished recovering it yet. My question to the
"Experts" on the list is, should I stay away from this one or not??? The
owner said he would sell it at a "very reasonable" price. I'm concerned
about what effect the "landing" might have had on the wings and tail.
Thanks in advance,
Dennis (Kolb flyer wannabe) from Maryland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MK 3 ready for first flight |
I need to know is there anybody in the area of Northen Indiana that i
could get any stick time in a Mk3 or close type of aircraft. To prepare
me for my first flight in my MK 3. P.S. powered by 912 engine.
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MK 3 ready for first flight |
gup(at)hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I need to know is there anybody in the area of Northen Indiana that i
> could get any stick time in a Mk3 or close type of aircraft. To prepare
> me for my first flight in my MK 3. P.S. powered by 912 engine.
>
> Bruce
>
The return e-mail for this is worng please disregard it is supposed to
be pak(at)niia.net sorry for the inconvinence!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cooling Suggestions |
Hi All: I'd like to say thanks for all the input on my cooling
question. I've spoken with the builder of my reduction drive, and he tells
me that cooling becomes a major problem at sustained high power levels. (
3500 - 5000 RPM ) For now, I think I'll go with the Type III cooling
system, at least for the pre-flying development. That way I'll have a
known quantity to work from, and on the ground, the weight won't matter.
After ground testing and break-in are complete, I'll feel more secure about
experimenting, and trying some of the great ideas posted here, to try and
develop a system that's light, and efficient. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: John asked: "What brand Lexan?" |
Woody
Their is one in HOUSTON, TX If you need the 1 800 # I can get it for
you
Rick Libersat
>
>gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a
>Lexan
>> >> supplier, very good prices.
>> >> jim
>> >
>
>
>Snip
>
>
>Hey guys,
>
>Where is this Cadillac Plastics???
>
>Woody
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Radio antenna question for Ben, and others |
John & gang
I have used the lexan that I got from Cadillac Plastic and it is the G E
brand you cain't beat the price and the service but what I have run in to
is this on the side pices and the doors no problems but on the front
window where it follows the fiberglass nose cone and the curve of the
lexan is tighter at this point don't know how to put this in to text
but looking out of the front windshield their is a lot of distortion like
it is real wavey
but with the RINO brand that KOLB sells their is no waves . Cadillac may
have a different brand than the GE that may be better for the front
window you may want to ask them before you buy it . But if you can stand
a few waves in the front Cadillac is the way to go.
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
>
>> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
>> supplier, very good prices.
>> jim
>
>
>Hi Jim and Gang:
>
>What brand lexan, GE?
>
>john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pancaked Firestar |
Dennis Watson wrote:
> I found a Firestar that was "Dropped in" from about 30 ft.- - - - - -
> My question to the"Experts" on the list is, should I stay away from
> this one or not???
Hey Dennis,
"You" are the person looking at this plane... "You are the person who
has the ability to see any possible damage... I know a person who
dropped a Firestar from about 200 ft with the chute. He destroyed his
cage completely and one wing. (The wing was the reason for the chute.
He blew it out doing loops.) He rebuilt the cage and the wing and is
still flying today... However,,, remember two things... First, it was
"he" who looked for any damage.. Secondly, always remember - - - - -
- - "buyer beware..."
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cowen <jcowen(at)controlsinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John asked: "What brand Lexan?" |
Cadallic Plastics is in Cleveland, Ohio. They do a lot of production work in
plastic as long as being a good source for many different types of plastics. Not
an ad for them , but I have used in my business several times as a source of
Lexan faceplates to protect the LCD on our controls. Fair pricing and delivery.
Jim
Woody Weaver wrote:
>
> gerken(at)us.ibm.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> My BIG THANKS to whomever suggested "Cadillac Plastics" for a Lexan
> > >> supplier, very good prices.
> > >> jim
> > >
>
> Snip
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Where is this Cadillac Plastics???
>
> Woody
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pancaked Firestar |
Dennis,
Here is the way that I would look at it: It all depends on what the price is
and how willing you are to make more repairs if needed. T If you can see the
cage well enough, and you feel that you can evaluate his repairs, then maybe.
What you can't see, is if the cage is bent. You take some risk, unless it is
jigged up like a new plane (from the plans). If the cage needs to be replaced,
only Firestar I/II cages are available. Don't forget to give the boom tube a
close inspection. It could have damage from a hard landing.
John Jung
Dennis Watson wrote:
>
> I found a Firestar that was "Dropped in" from about 30 ft. The owner said he
> lost the engine due to fuel starvation, got distracted during his landing,
> lost airspeed and stalled. He said it came straight down wings level on the
> main gear. He was not injured, but the main gear was spread out with damage
> to the cage at the gear attachment point at each side. He said he has
> repaired the cage but has not finished recovering it yet. My question to the
> "Experts" on the list is, should I stay away from this one or not??? The
> owner said he would sell it at a "very reasonable" price. I'm concerned
> about what effect the "landing" might have had on the wings and tail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pancaked Firestar |
Hi Dennis,
In addition to the other comments I have seen on you question, I would
recommend that you need to do a careful examination of the main wing spars.
"landing" the main spar could have been over stressed. Removing the cover
from the wing would be the only way I would know to examine it.
Particularly in the middle of the spar, there is a combination of a steel
"H" section and a large aluminum tube that is riveted together. I believe I
would want to know that no damage had occurred there.
I have no experience in this area so take the comment as a suggestion only.
Vince Nicely
Firestar II
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Watson <djwatson(at)olg.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:11 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Pancaked Firestar
>
>I found a Firestar that was "Dropped in" from about 30 ft. The owner said
he
>lost the engine due to fuel starvation, got distracted during his landing,
>lost airspeed and stalled. He said it came straight down wings level on
the
>main gear. He was not injured, but the main gear was spread out with damage
>to the cage at the gear attachment point at each side. He said he has
>repaired the cage but has not finished recovering it yet. My question to
the
>"Experts" on the list is, should I stay away from this one or not??? The
>owner said he would sell it at a "very reasonable" price. I'm concerned
>about what effect the "landing" might have had on the wings and tail.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Dennis (Kolb flyer wannabe) from Maryland
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com> |
| Subject: | Pancake Firestar |
Thanks to all for the advice. My suspicions have been confirmed. I really
would like to get a Kolb, but, I think I'll take my time and really check
this one out good. I haven't seen it in person yet. I'll be sure to let the
list know what I find.
.....Tim, I live in Ridge MD. it's close to where the Potomac River dumps
into the Bay about 60 miles south of Waldorf.
I would also like to say that I really enjoy this List and I look forward to
reading it daily. Keep the stories coming, they keep the juices
flowing...................Thanks, Dennis (in MD.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth E. Farrow" <asca(at)knix.net> |
HELLO KOLB LIST, and thanx in advance for your time and advice--I am a
wannabe currently enrolled in ground school--have been assigned to present a
"safety topic" to the class--I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain the
hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
(Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
Hi ralph, thanks for the info. by the way you must be the person that
flys out of winsted airport with that nice kolb, my barber, roger stundahl has
told me about you, all good of course. I,am not sure if you read my story a
few weeks ago or not, but I have wanted an ultralight ever since the
weedhopper came out. but felt they were unsafe, any way to make a long story
short, a few months ago the bug hit me again, while geting my haircut roger
said, well sell some of those antique engines you have(one lungers from the
farm) and buy an ultralight, I said ok I'll think about it, like I have for 20
some years. He mentioned to me that their was a person that flys out by me
with a kolb and he trailers it in. ( which must be you) if not no need to read
on. he said you ought to look into kolb aircraft, it seem to be a very sturdy
ultralight, he mentioned he has seen you fly that thing in very strong winds,
you must know you ultralight well. anyway I,am looking for some advise on if
you built your own or not or if you would not mind if I came to view yours
sometime and ask you a few questions before I purchase mine. I only live a few
minutes from mound.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
excelsior
474-3540
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I [weather
permitting].
I have run in my 503 per instructions, adjusted my Warp 3 blade 5 times to
finally get 6250 RPM, did the Weight & Balance [CG is 28%], I've done some hi-
speed taxiiing
[enough to get the tail up], double checked everything, & now I'm anxious to
go.
I admit to a small case of nerves, just as I always did on Maiden Flight of
all my Radio Control Planes.
Since I only have about 25 hours in an UL & no taildragger time except taxiing
my FS I, I had considered getting a fellow FS I pilot to test fly mine but
opted to reserve the experience for myself. I feel confident in my ability to
fly this plane. The nerves I feel are just like when I was about to do my
Solo after training.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
Lexington, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hey Ken and the kolbers from the Hawksnest,-- I don't know about anyone else
but I found that any other kind of can is almost impossible to find anymore.
Besides if you are worried about a fire starting from a static spark,I know
it can happen, just pick the can up and before you touch the tank or any
other part of the plane use your other hand and discharge any static then
stay in contact with the plane as you pour, by direct contact or by a
separate ground cable. It is done hundreds of times everyday in the summer
as we here in the south have to do the dirty deed, I mean cut the grass.
Pick up the can, put your foot on the mower, pour in some gas. It don't get
any simpler than that. Later--- FIREHAWK
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth E. Farrow <asca(at)knix.net>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 7:13 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: REFUELING
>
>HELLO KOLB LIST, and thanx in advance for your time and advice--I am a
>wannabe currently enrolled in ground school--have been assigned to present
a
>"safety topic" to the class--I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
>from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain
the
>hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Hello Howard from the Hawksnest, Gooood luck. Be careful. Don't get in a
hurry. Read your check list at least three times. Have someone else read it
and look over your plane while tying not to talk. Video the event and take
some pictures. First landing, don't be afraid to use the power as you need
it all the way to the ground, even wheel land it if you have to, just don't
cut the power to ideal until you are sure you know where it starts to sink.
Do a few touch and goes. Take your time. Most of all have a good time.
Congratulation--FIREHAWK
PS- Jim Holbrook is a new firestar driver.He can even fill you in on his
first flight a few weeks ago. He's at HolbrookJR(at)ncsc.navy.mil His first
landing was picture perfect, I can't say that about #2,3,4,5 because he did
all those on his next attempt at landing.HAHA
-----Original Message-----
From: HShack(at)aol.com <HShack(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
>
>Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I
[weather
>permitting].
>I have run in my 503 per instructions, adjusted my Warp 3 blade 5 times to
>finally get 6250 RPM, did the Weight & Balance [CG is 28%], I've done some
hi-
>speed taxiiing
>[enough to get the tail up], double checked everything, & now I'm anxious
to
>go.
>
>I admit to a small case of nerves, just as I always did on Maiden Flight of
>all my Radio Control Planes.
>
>Since I only have about 25 hours in an UL & no taildragger time except
taxiing
>my FS I, I had considered getting a fellow FS I pilot to test fly mine but
>opted to reserve the experience for myself. I feel confident in my ability
to
>fly this plane. The nerves I feel are just like when I was about to do my
>Solo after training.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>FS I
>Lexington, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Hi Howard: You wouldn't be human if you weren't a little antsy at this
point. Good luck. As always, I'm envious of you guys making your 1st
flights. Wish I was there. Let us know how you do. Big Lar.
----------
> From: HShack(at)aol.com
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:13 PM
>
>
> Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I
[weather
> permitting].
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/19/99 9:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, HShack(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Since I only have about 25 hours in an UL & no taildragger time except
taxiing
my FS I, I had considered getting a fellow FS I pilot to test fly mine but
opted to reserve the experience for myself. I feel confident in my ability
to
fly this plane. The nerves I feel are just like when I was about to do my
Solo after training.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
Lexington, SC >>
Wish you the very best Howard and you will do just fine I'm sure with your 25
hours and especially your modelling past...which I think is invaluable....its
MUCH harder to fly a model than it is the real thing ...for sure. But don't
let the easiness of the experience lull you to sleep....always fly the
airplane and keep the airspeed up.....I know you know that but I just had to
say it anyway.....Good luck........GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Again: I don't know how long you've been on the list, but from
comments by others a while back, I think we should say that on your 1st
flight, leave the flaps alone. Several listers have made excellent 1st
flights, pulled flaps on short final, and crunched the plane. Haven't been
there myself yet, in a Kolb anyway, but they say the flaps are VERY
effective. With any decent length of runway, you won't need them. Be
careful, and again, Good Luck. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:04 PM
>
>
> Hi Howard: You wouldn't be human if you weren't a little antsy at
this
> point. Good luck. As always, I'm envious of you guys making your 1st
> flights. Wish I was there. Let us know how you do. Big Lar.
>
> ----------
> > From: HShack(at)aol.com
> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
> > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:13 PM
> >
> >
> > Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I
> [weather
> > permitting].
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Howard
With the time you have you will do fine just keep your head, and the
speed up and keep her in to the wind . good luck it will be a part of
your life that you will NEVER forget . Have someone take plenty of
pictures I want to see that GRIN
GOOD LUCK
Rick Libersat
>
>Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I
>[weather
>permitting].
>I have run in my 503 per instructions, adjusted my Warp 3 blade 5
>times to
>finally get 6250 RPM, did the Weight & Balance [CG is 28%], I've done
>some hi-
>speed taxiiing
>[enough to get the tail up], double checked everything, & now I'm
>anxious to
>go.
>
>I admit to a small case of nerves, just as I always did on Maiden
>Flight of
>all my Radio Control Planes.
>
>Since I only have about 25 hours in an UL & no taildragger time except
>taxiing
>my FS I, I had considered getting a fellow FS I pilot to test fly mine
>but
>opted to reserve the experience for myself. I feel confident in my
>ability to
>fly this plane. The nerves I feel are just like when I was about to
>do my
>Solo after training.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>FS I
>Lexington, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
The problem is static electricity. Plastic jugs build up a static charge worse
than metal cans, and are less well able to dissapate it off. Just be sure and
ground the plastic jug to the airplane before you begin the fuel transfer. In my
case, since the gastank is up in the wing center section, and my muffler is
"flipped over" from the normal Rotax/Kolb mounting, I have two flat brackets
atop the muffler, and I sit the fuel can atop the muffler while it siphons into
the tank. Obviously, this eliminates my ability to do quick pit stops...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
Kenneth E. Farrow wrote:
>
> HELLO KOLB LIST, and thanx in advance for your time and advice--I am a
> wannabe currently enrolled in ground school--have been assigned to present a
> "safety topic" to the class--I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
> from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain the
> hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
Kenneth E. Farrow wrote:
>
>
> HELLO KOLB LIST, and thanx in advance for your time and advice--I am a
> wannabe currently enrolled in ground school--have been assigned to present a
> "safety topic" to the class--I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
> from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain the
> hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
>
The only problem I have heard of is filling the plastic container
itself. If you leave it in the bed of a truck, it can build up static
that can be discharged to the gas nozzle of the pump, creating a spark.
A number of fires have been started this way. Just place the plastic
container on the ground when filling at the pump.
Have never heard of any incidents of fire when filling the plastic tank
of a UL from a plastic container.
--
***********************************************
* Bill Weber * Keep *
* Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
* Simi Valley, CA * side up *
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Kenneth E. Farrow wrote:
> HELLO KOLB LIST, and thanx in advance for your time and advice--I am a
> wannabe currently enrolled in ground school--have been assigned to present a
> "safety topic" to the class--I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
> from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain the
> hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
I'm guessing the danger from static isn't too bad. I've never grounded
my lawnmower when fueling it, but of course would not be too mad if it
blew ...in fact that sounds maybe kinda of fun from a distance. :).
Static danger will vary with how dry a day it is. One mistake I use to
commit -- in the name of safety, no less -- was to use a Mr. Funnel.
This allows a huge amount of explosive vapor to sit and drift all around
the fuel fill area. Dumb! I changed to using a ~1" clear plastic hose
of the same kind of material as our fuel lines. This fits just right
on the flex spout of my plastic can and the other end into a foot long
piece of ~1 1/4" pvc, which in turn fits down thru the wing gap seal
into the gas tank. With this arrangement there is very little area
for vapors to get out during fueling. I think trying to carry around
another conductive grounding cable is more trouble than warrented.
You would then also add risk of leaving the cable in the wrong place
i.e. having it end up in the prop later. Ugh.
btw there is a small pvc sleeve around the pvc tube to keep it from
falling thru the wing gap seal hole down into my gas tank.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jrmjones(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: [Fwd: Needle warning] |
Thank you I will pass it on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/19/99 9:17:01 PM, you wrote:
<>
My two cents. Say a guy walked up to you at the airport and said "Hey . . . I
hear you just spent 10 large on your airplane and a couple of years of your
life building it. Now I've got no pilots license and no tail dragger time.
But I bet I could fly it. So c'mon Mister gimme a chance to fly the thing you
just spent all that money and time on."
If you have any sense you'd tell that guy to take a hike. You would have
to be out of your mind to trust you plane to a guy like that. I have 135
hours in a mark two and I'm paying a high time current mark three pilot to
test fly my mark three. Use your brain. You have way too much invested to
risk it like that. There all stories all over of low time guys who came to
grief trying to be test pilots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Big Lar, Firestar 1 don't have flaps. Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:52 PM
Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
>
>Hi Again: I don't know how long you've been on the list, but from
>comments by others a while back, I think we should say that on your 1st
>flight, leave the flaps alone. Several listers have made excellent 1st
>flights, pulled flaps on short final, and crunched the plane. Haven't been
>there myself yet, in a Kolb anyway, but they say the flaps are VERY
>effective. With any decent length of runway, you won't need them. Be
>careful, and again, Good Luck. Big Lar.
>
>----------
>> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
>> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:04 PM
>>
>
>>
>> Hi Howard: You wouldn't be human if you weren't a little antsy at
>this
>> point. Good luck. As always, I'm envious of you guys making your 1st
>> flights. Wish I was there. Let us know how you do. Big Lar.
>>
>> ----------
>> > From: HShack(at)aol.com
>> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
>> > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:13 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I
>> [weather
>> > permitting].
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
I have 135
>hours in a mark two and I'm paying a high time current mark three pilot to
>test fly my mark three. Use your brain. You have way too much invested to
>risk it like that. There all stories all over of low time guys who came to
>grief trying to be test pilots.
I had to teach myself to fly the Kolb Flyer. I had to teach a non pilot
to fly a single seat Ultrastar. I taught myself to fly my Twinstar. A friend
bought a Firestar and since he hadn't flown in 10 yrs. asked me to do the
honours. On the given day I suggested he do a slow taxi test of the runway
so he could be first to drive it under power. He hit the gas and flew. Took
him 3 tries to set up an approach but he did it no problem. First thing he
said to me was " The taildragger thing really is a non issue".
Use caution and common sense and you should be okay. Sometimes ya just
got to put your balls on the line for the fun of it.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
| From: | Raymond L Lujon <rayul(at)juno.com> |
>SNIP<
> Sometimes ya
>just
>got to put your balls on the line for the fun of it.
>
> Woody
Woody..............
"For the fun of it?" You are a full blown idiot to give this kind of
advice. Sorry I just could't help myself. What you do is your business,
but don't promote such irresponsible recklessness. This is the type of
behavior and bravado that hurts the entire ultralight movement.
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Now you've riled me up. Been on this list for 8 months without a post but
can't hold back any longer reading posts like this. (also sounds like some
bfi's I know). Would you marry a beautiful girl and let your experienced
buddy try her out first, not. Leave these people alone! For lack of
qualified bfi's I had to learn to fly my firestar2 alone and now have 183
hours on the clock. Some of us can do it by ourselves, can't we guys?
I feel better,
now
turbo bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Eastman <eastman(at)rootscomputing.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
> Would you marry a beautiful girl and let your experienced
>buddy try her out first, not. Leave these people alone!
If I thought there was a strong likelihood that she would kill me, I
certainly would let my buddy go first!
Inexperienced pilots frequently get killed when they try to fly aircraft
they are not prepared to handle.
I have a Kolb FireFly sitting in the garage right now, all set to fly. I am
a 450+ hour general aviation pilot but have zero time in ultralights. I
won't fly the FireFly until I am checked out by an ultralight BFI
(hopefully within the next 2 or 3 weeks).
The reason I am waiting is simple: I enjoy living.
- Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
Back in 1994 I completed my Anglin J-6. It is an airplane the same size
and shape as a Kitfox, or Murphy Rebel, a 650 pound taildragger with the
mains far enough forward that the tail was heavy on the tailwheel. I had
minimal tailwheel time and got a buddy with 30 years experience in
taildraggers to fly it for the first time.
New airplane, the Rotax ran hot on climbout, the prop was not
optimum, the ailerons were not quite in rig, typical stuff for a first
flight. He took it around the pattern and landed it slicker'n snot,
brought it back to the ramp, and said;" Not bad, here's what we need to
work on." He flew it 5 times more before we got it trimmed hands off,
and the temperatures down.
When I took it up for MY first time, I had a straight airplane. I
have never regretted it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Are we talking Apples and Oranges here, or what? If you klutz up your wedding
night, all you get is embarassed, and an opportunity to try again the next
morning. If you klutz up your first flight, you get to become: A) a media
event. B) embarassed and several grand poorer. C)
stuck in the garage for the next 6 months trying to return a pile of junk into
an airplane again.
If you really don't know what your'e doing, let somebody fly it that does. I
have stood on the ramp and watched my new airplane go around the patch with a
real old hand at the stick, and it's a very comforting feeling. Of course, "Hey
Ya'll, watch this!" still works for some...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42Oldpoops)
RSTAN50(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Now you've riled me up. Been on this list for 8 months without a post but
> can't hold back any longer reading posts like this. (also sounds like some
> bfi's I know). Would you marry a beautiful girl and let your experienced
> buddy try her out first, not. Leave these people alone! For lack of
> qualified bfi's I had to learn to fly my firestar2 alone and now have 183
> hours on the clock. Some of us can do it by ourselves, can't we guys?
>
> I feel better,
> now
> turbo bob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
| From: | Raymond L Lujon <rayul(at)juno.com> |
>snip<
Some of us can do it by ourselves, can't we guys?
> I feel better, now
> turbo bob
You are so right. Many people do," do it themselves ". That still is not
the right or logical way to do it. Come on turbo bob, if you had your
druthers, wouldn't you have preferred having had good training from an
experienced BFI? Opps, I sense you have some kind of hang up with
BFI's. And common sense still says, " being your own test pilot " with
limited experience is like being your own lawyer, only worse since your
life and the well being of those dear to you, are on the line. My point
is, what you did in the past is your business only, just don't condone or
worse yet, promote unsafe practices by bragging about it. A life may
depend on what you and I have to say. Yes, you , I and many others got
away with it, but the next newbee may not be so lucky. The overall
purpose of this list is to promote safety by learning from others
mistakes, not by perpetuating carelessness and bravado. IMHO
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
OK List, It's done, & I'm still kicking! QDPi ain't a maiden no more.
The flight went as planned except that a lot of wind was getting behind my
glasses & impairing my vision somewhat-will be looking for a full-face
motorcycle helmet before the next flight.
As to the wisdom [or lack of] being my own test pilot, I did it myself only
after careful thought & preparation. I did about 2 hours of taxiing, most of
it with the tail up, I even got the mains off about 6" several times to check
for any bad roll tendencies. I did a careful pre-flight & then did another
one. Had my fellow Kolb flyer also do one; only thing he didn't like was the
way I safetied the elevator turnbuckles. Spent a lot of time quizzing him
about stall speeds, take off speeds, landing speeds, things to look out for.
Observations:
1-I learned to fly in a Quick MXL II [10 hours] & the 15 hours in a Quick
Sprint w/ 447.
Going into the Firestar was like going from a Volkswagen to a Ferrari
2-Airspeed can change so fast it's almost un-believable. It appears that
reaching Vne
is certainly do-able, even with my Warp 3 blade taper tip prop pithed for
climb on the 3:47-1 "C" Box.
3-The famous Kolb climb is not a myth. In watching my airspeed & getting
familiar with everything, I noticed I was at 3,500' and climbing-previous high
was 2,000'.[AGL]
4-I have the R-503DCDI. I believe the 447 may be a more appropriate engine.
5-WOW!! what a craft!!
I will do another hour around the pea patch & then some short X Country. I
don't see how I'm going to sleep tonight.
Howard Shackleford
Firestar I [QDPi]
Lexington,SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Hi Richard, You are one of the smart ones. If you hadn't let your buddy fly
it first we may not be reading your post right now. There are times when a
new low time pilot can make his first flight in a new type plane, he and he
alone can make that decision. Don't tempt fate---Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:48 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight
>
>Back in 1994 I completed my Anglin J-6. It is an airplane the same size
>and shape as a Kitfox, or Murphy Rebel, a 650 pound taildragger with the
>mains far enough forward that the tail was heavy on the tailwheel. I had
>minimal tailwheel time and got a buddy with 30 years experience in
>taildraggers to fly it for the first time.
> New airplane, the Rotax ran hot on climbout, the prop was not
>optimum, the ailerons were not quite in rig, typical stuff for a first
>flight. He took it around the pattern and landed it slicker'n snot,
>brought it back to the ramp, and said;" Not bad, here's what we need to
>work on." He flew it 5 times more before we got it trimmed hands off,
>and the temperatures down.
> When I took it up for MY first time, I had a straight airplane. I
>have never regretted it.
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Way to go Howard---- From the Hawks' Nest
-----Original Message-----
From: HShack(at)aol.com <HShack(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden Flight
>
>OK List, It's done, & I'm still kicking! QDPi ain't a maiden no more.
>
>The flight went as planned except that a lot of wind was getting behind my
>glasses & impairing my vision somewhat-will be looking for a full-face
>motorcycle helmet before the next flight.
>
>As to the wisdom [or lack of] being my own test pilot, I did it myself only
>after careful thought & preparation. I did about 2 hours of taxiing, most
of
>it with the tail up, I even got the mains off about 6" several times to
check
>for any bad roll tendencies. I did a careful pre-flight & then did another
>one. Had my fellow Kolb flyer also do one; only thing he didn't like was
the
>way I safetied the elevator turnbuckles. Spent a lot of time quizzing him
>about stall speeds, take off speeds, landing speeds, things to look out
for.
>
>Observations:
>1-I learned to fly in a Quick MXL II [10 hours] & the 15 hours in a Quick
>Sprint w/ 447.
>Going into the Firestar was like going from a Volkswagen to a Ferrari
>
>2-Airspeed can change so fast it's almost un-believable. It appears that
>reaching Vne
>is certainly do-able, even with my Warp 3 blade taper tip prop pithed for
>climb on the 3:47-1 "C" Box.
>
>3-The famous Kolb climb is not a myth. In watching my airspeed & getting
>familiar with everything, I noticed I was at 3,500' and climbing-previous
high
>was 2,000'.[AGL]
>
>4-I have the R-503DCDI. I believe the 447 may be a more appropriate
engine.
>
>5-WOW!! what a craft!!
>
>I will do another hour around the pea patch & then some short X Country. I
>don't see how I'm going to sleep tonight.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>Firestar I [QDPi]
>Lexington,SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Good Luck! Keep the shiny side up!
Woody
HShack(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Well List, tomorrow I will finally fly my just completed Firestar I [weather
> permitting].
> I have run in my 503 per instructions, adjusted my Warp 3 blade 5 times to
> finally get 6250 RPM, did the Weight & Balance [CG is 28%], I've done some hi-
> speed taxiiing
> [enough to get the tail up], double checked everything, & now I'm anxious to
> go.
>
> I admit to a small case of nerves, just as I always did on Maiden Flight of
> all my Radio Control Planes.
>
> Since I only have about 25 hours in an UL & no taildragger time except taxiing
> my FS I, I had considered getting a fellow FS I pilot to test fly mine but
> opted to reserve the experience for myself. I feel confident in my ability to
> fly this plane. The nerves I feel are just like when I was about to do my
> Solo after training.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS I
> Lexington, SC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
>
>>SNIP<
>> Sometimes ya
>>just
>>got to put your balls on the line for the fun of it.
>>
>> Woody
>
>Woody..............
>
>"For the fun of it?" You are a full blown idiot to give this kind of
>advice. Sorry I just could't help myself. What you do is your business,
>but don't promote such irresponsible recklessness. This is the type of
>behavior and bravado that hurts the entire ultralight movement.
>
> Raymond
>
I may be a full blown idiot and I have never made claims to any mental
abilities but without knowing me how can you say I am reckless and
irresponsible? I enjoy thrill sports. I have learned to use caution and
preparation as my safety guide. All things considered I am very attached to
my hide and will preserve it at allmost all costs but I will not sit in
front of a TV afraid to go out into the world. If I wanted a safe hobby I
would take up basket weaving.
Woody
PS. congrats to Shack on the first flight. After my first flight in the
Kolb flyer I didn't come down for a week. Keep altitude and speed for a long
life and when you decide you can do anything in the airplane it will bite
you just to let you know who is boss.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Siberian Grizzlies |
| From: | HERBERT L JOHNSON <herb87(at)juno.com> |
What has the title have to do with Kolbs ? Yesterday afternoon on PBS
was the TV Nature show about the grizzly bears.
There were several good shots of the Firestar 2 with floats. Some from
inside
and some from the ground.
The grizzlies were interesting but the shots of the Kolb made it more
enjoyable.
Herb in Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
I have been a lurker on the list for the past 2.5 years and for the first time
I really feel compelled to contribute. The "bug" first bit me back in '81
when I saw an atricle on ultralights in either Popular Science or Popular
Mechanics. I started saving my pennies and doing alot of reading (as well as
talking my spouse into thinking getting an ultralight was her idea).
After a visit to the factory I ordered my firestar (quick-build option, 447
engine).It arrived in the spring of '95. After a little more than a year
building it was ready to fly. I I only live 2 hours from the factory, so I
got 12 hours of instruction from Dan in the mkIII. This was spread over four
days. A very worthwhile experience as I had no previous flight experience. I
got to meet Dennis and Homer (who was putting an addition on next ot the
hanger). You will not find a more helpful group of people anywhere. After my
lessons from Dan it seemed the logical next step to fly my plane myself. I
waited for an exceptionally calm day, did a thorough pre-flight, and went
flying. It was an experience that is hard to put in to words.
I now have over 40 flights and, with the exception of replacing a faulty ASI,
have had no trouble at all.I guess my point to all this is that it is up to
the individual if they choose to do their own first flight. I like to think
Dennis and Homer had people like me in mind when they decided to sell these
fine little flying machines. Just my two cents worth.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth E. Farrow" <asca(at)knix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
WOODY--good for you, and amen!! ken in alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 HShack(at)aol.com wrote:
> The flight went as planned except that a lot of wind was getting behind my
> glasses & impairing my vision somewhat-will be looking for a full-face
> motorcycle helmet before the next flight.
>
> As to the wisdom [or lack of] being my own test pilot, I did it myself only
> after careful thought & preparation. I did about 2 hours of taxiing, most of
> it with the tail up, I even got the mains off about 6" several times to check
> for any bad roll tendencies. I did a careful pre-flight & then did another
> one. Had my fellow Kolb flyer also do one; only thing he didn't like was the
> way I safetied the elevator turnbuckles. Spent a lot of time quizzing him
> about stall speeds, take off speeds, landing speeds, things to look out for.
Congratulations big time Howard!
My $.02 on flying it first: I don't think there is an absolute
right or wrong answer to this. If you the builder fly it first I think
Howard's experience level is minimally adequate for a FS I and his
really cautious and gradual approach was key as well. I think the ones
that don't turn out well are when any little piece -- either recent and
adequate experience or anything in Howard's paragraph above are left out.
Howard's cautious approach also suggests he probably did a careful
and good job to build a straight airplane. His 2 hours of taxiing,
graduating to wheels off did a lot to prove he had a well behaved plane.
Some would criticize even this as crow-hopping. Not me; I did my whole
thing just like Howard described.
So, IMO, Great job on the plane and the good judgement as to how you
carried out the first flight. And, be careful on the second one ...I
made that one worse than my first.
I have no problem with those who argue a well experienced Kolb flyer
should fly the plane first. But IMO that test pilot/friend would be an
awfully trusting and generous person. If I were single I would maybe
do it but I would check the plane out for a full day -- top to bottom.
I ask a lot of my wife just to play with one plane I can keep track
of and draw the line at expecting her to sit tight while I test fly
somebody else's. THose of you that do this, are there agreements as to
who pays if there is trouble?
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Face Shield for Helmet |
I have a Comtronics Ultra-Pro 2000 Helmet.. it has the snaps on the front for
a face shield but I'm afraid the wind will blow it off & in to the prop.
There are also 2 holes with slide covers up there; can any-one tell me what
those are for?
I had thought about buying a full face motorcycle helmet but if I can do
something with the Comtronics so much the better.
Howard Shackleford
FS I [QDPi]
Lexington, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/21/99 1:41:12 PM, you wrote:
<>
I posted earlier on the con side of this debate. Let me expand on my
position, which is informed by some personal history. For many years the top
guy in my local EAA chapter was a guy named Jim Beaumont. He was building a
Steen Skybolt. It was a winner and would have had a shot a prize at Oshkosh.
Beautiful paint, beautiful panel, a plane to die for. He put ten years in the
plane and huge money. He was a great guy, everyone liked him and admired his
plane.
So he finally gets it out to the airport. Now, he's no dummy. He's
planning to get some time in a Pitts and he's going to get someone else to do
the first flight. He'd spent so much time building that he wasn't current,
though he was a high time tail dragger guy. But he couldn't stop himself from
wanting to run it a little. So he gets in and starts it up with the idea he'd
just do a little high speed taxiing, maybe lift the tail. He has the
plexiglass canopy slid all the way back and only put on the lap belt. He goes
up and down a couple of times and it feels good so he decides to try to lift
the tail. He gets half way down the runway with the tail up. The high
performance Skybolt jumps into the air at about the half way mark and how he
is in big trouble. The canopy is back and wind is probably blowing in his
face. Witnesses said he must have panicked. He chopped the power at about
the 3/4 mark on the runway and the skybolt did exactly what it was designed to
do: stalled sharply and nosed right over from about 20 feet. The wheels never
touched the ground. The Skybolt impacted vertical and Jim was slammed into
his expensive panel. Nothing the paramedics could do.
Ten years building. Six seconds flying.
Just because a guy with 25 hours survives his first flight does not
demonstrate that it was a good decision. Flying a homebuilt aircraft for the
first time is challenging enough. Add learning to fly to the equation and the
odds are really lousy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <olendorf(at)empireone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Face Shield for Helmet |
I have this helmet as well. I use a full face shield that just snaps on to
those 3 snaps and it is very secure. I don't think it will come off at all.
I have the standard Firestar windshield so this may not apply if you have
one of the Kolbs without a windshield.
The covered holes are only vents to cool your head in summer.
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 377
Schenectady, NY http://members.aol.com/olefiresta
-----Original Message-----
From: HShack(at)aol.com <HShack(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Face Shield for Helmet
|
|I have a Comtronics Ultra-Pro 2000 Helmet.. it has the snaps on the front
for
|a face shield but I'm afraid the wind will blow it off & in to the prop.
|There are also 2 holes with slide covers up there; can any-one tell me what
|those are for?
|
|I had thought about buying a full face motorcycle helmet but if I can do
|something with the Comtronics so much the better.
|
|Howard Shackleford
|FS I [QDPi]
|Lexington, SC
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Well, I guess it's always something. Went to pull the nosecone off today,
and found that the only plastic brake fluid line I didn't replace with
steel has leaked all over the inside of the cone. Palmolive dish soap and
water cleaned up the metal pieces just fine, but leaves a thick, gummy,
sticky residue on the inside of the fiberglass. Scrubbed with a brush, and
good concentration of soap; let it sit for a while........nope. Yes, I'm
using the red aircraft brake fluid. Phooey ! ! ! Any ideas ??
Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
First flights have the potential to be dangerous but do not necessarily
have to be. If the builder/pilot is prepared (as Howard was) and has done
his/her homework by having been properly trained in another ultralight,
then the risk is lower. Take today for example. Here in Minnesota, the
lakes are frozen and are a perfect place for learning to fly an
ultralight. The newbie pilot can land anywhere with a suitable runway
below at all times. I always say to new pilots: if I had to land my
ultralight on a confined runway the first time out, I could not have done
it. After 15 hours of winter lake flying, it was still very difficult in
the spring that very first time. I had all of 2.5 hours of actual
ultralight training with an instructor during the winter on the lake.
Boris Popov, founder of BRS was my instructor. This training, however
minimal, was enough for me to takeoff and land solo with my FireStar. Now
12 years later, I have experience and lots of it. This is probably not
the "proper" way to go, but it worked for me. Maybe that RC experience
helped out too.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
>
>Congratulations big time Howard!
>
>My $.02 on flying it first: I don't think there is an absolute
>right or wrong answer to this. If you the builder fly it first I
>think
>Howard's experience level is minimally adequate for a FS I and his
>really cautious and gradual approach was key as well.
>who pays if there is trouble?
>-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Face Shield for Helmet |
Howard, They are there for cooling vents to your head on those hot days of
summer, but don't forget to close them for winter. Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: HShack(at)aol.com <HShack(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Face Shield for Helmet
>
>I have a Comtronics Ultra-Pro 2000 Helmet.. it has the snaps on the front
for
>a face shield but I'm afraid the wind will blow it off & in to the prop.
>There are also 2 holes with slide covers up there; can any-one tell me what
>those are for?
>
>I had thought about buying a full face motorcycle helmet but if I can do
>something with the Comtronics so much the better.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>FS I [QDPi]
>Lexington, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Try a little MEK on a small place to see if it will take the fluid off. It
usually takes everything else off. Be careful with that stuff
though.Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 5:14 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Brake Fluid
>
>Well, I guess it's always something. Went to pull the nosecone off today,
>and found that the only plastic brake fluid line I didn't replace with
>steel has leaked all over the inside of the cone. Palmolive dish soap and
>water cleaned up the metal pieces just fine, but leaves a thick, gummy,
>sticky residue on the inside of the fiberglass. Scrubbed with a brush, and
>good concentration of soap; let it sit for a while........nope. Yes, I'm
>using the red aircraft brake fluid. Phooey ! ! ! Any ideas ??
> Big Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlyByScott(at)aol.com |
Hi i am looking on buying a Mark III. Can it come with dual sticks?
If someone could answer my question that would be very helpful.
Scott
Southern California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Scott, Why would you want duel sticks? Have you flown one with duels before?
Have you flown much with the center mount stick. A 'real pilot' is
comfortable even if the stick is hanging from the roof. i.e. early Lazair-
My first ultralight, HAHA. Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: FlyByScott(at)aol.com <FlyByScott(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 9:27 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III
>
>Hi i am looking on buying a Mark III. Can it come with dual sticks?
>If someone could answer my question that would be very helpful.
>
>
>Scott
>Southern California
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/21/99 11:49:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, BKlebon(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I now have over 40 flights and, with the exception of replacing a faulty
ASI,
have had no trouble at all.I guess my point to all this is that it is up to
the individual if they choose to do their own first flight. I like to think
Dennis and Homer had people like me in mind when they decided to sell these
fine little flying machines. Just my two cents worth.
>>
well Bklebon, it sounds like you have captured the kernal of trust that SOME
people have in others when a 1st is written about on this list. Although it is
disgusting to see some go off the deep end when others don't do things the way
that is considered traditional or "safe" I know that "problems" seem to be the
most severe on "firsts". And I suppose some ot the passion that comes out on
this list is initiated by such personal memories of the ones who get
passionate in the 1st place!!
But when you say that "I like to think
Dennis and Homer had people like me in mind when they decided to sell these
fine little flying machines. Just my two cents worth." I think you hit it
right on the head...these planes are for people who are capable of planning
ahead and who actually KNOW where they are from moment to moment, not like the
PASSION driven ones that seem to be referred to upon occasion.
Congratulations Shack!..................See, I told you it would be easier
than flying one of your models!!.............GeoRfd38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
OK Michael, I'll give it a very careful whirl. All my experience has been
with epoxy, and way back in the depths, it seems like I remember hearing
that MEK attacks polyester, and I believe the nose cone is made with
polyester, and not epoxy. Am I correct ?? ' Course, with my luck, and
Murphy's Law, it'll probably attack epoxy too. Any one know for sure ??
FINALLY, got the door latches finished, seat belt anchors installed,
preliminary patterns for the lexan for the doors, and rear quarter panels
done this weekend. Pulled that nose cone to start on the rudder trim
mechanism, and came up with the brake fluid mess. Feels good to be
re-motivated, and going like gang-busters. Great Stuff ! ! ! Big
Lar.
----------
> From: Michael Highsmith <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brake Fluid
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 7:24 PM
>
>
> Try a little MEK on a small place to see if it will take the fluid off.
It
> usually takes everything else off. Be careful with that stuff
> though.Firehawk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: Kolb
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 5:14 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Brake Fluid
>
>
> >
> >Well, I guess it's always something. Went to pull the nosecone off
today,
> >and found that the only plastic brake fluid line I didn't replace with
> >steel has leaked all over the inside of the cone. Palmolive dish soap
and
> >water cleaned up the metal pieces just fine, but leaves a thick, gummy,
> >sticky residue on the inside of the fiberglass. Scrubbed with a brush,
and
> >good concentration of soap; let it sit for a while........nope. Yes,
I'm
> >using the red aircraft brake fluid. Phooey ! ! ! Any ideas ??
> > Big Lar.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting my Mk III |
Hi Jim: I received my Mk III kit in Nov. ' 96, and the fabric, and
everything ( ?? ) up to, but not including the silver, and paint. I should
be ready to start covering in about a month, and feel like I should start
getting a line on my supplies. I'm not sure if you were the supplier then,
but I do have a couple of questions. First, I was looking things over
today, and I see that the poly brush is clear. Went through the seminar at
A/C Spruce in Nov. '96, ( I think ) and we used the pink tinted. Still had
a little problem seeing what was coated and with how much in spots. Is it
possible to tint the clear that I have ?? After 2+ years, is it still any
good ?? If either of the above is "no", can I return it ?? Also, I'm
going to need the silver, and color coatings, and I need to know how much
to plan on spending, so I can budget it, and get it ordered. Probably will
go with a light yellow. No trim colors for now. I live in Palm Springs,
CA., and most definitely want to get the covering and painting done before
the summer heat hits. Thanks. Big Lar.
----------
>
From: MR JIM MILLER <BPSP74A(at)prodigy.com>
> To: kolb(at)intrig.com
> Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 7:43 PM
>
>
> Hi,
> I've been asked to join your group,
>
> I am the one who supplies the fabric stuff for the Kolb kits.
>
> any questions concerning fabric, or fabricing, don't hesitate to
> write or call!!
>
> Our toll free number is (877) 877-3334
>
> thanx,
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
>
> bpsp74a(at)prodigy.com
>
>
+--
--+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Shettel <mshettel(at)mindspring.com> |
The safest way to clean your gummy brake fluid is to use more of the same. Soak
a rag with Mill spec. 5606 (red brake fluid) and wipe till clean. Then use the
Palmolive and warm water to finish the job.
Maurice
Larry Bourne wrote:
>
> Well, I guess it's always something. Went to pull the nosecone off today,
>
>
> +
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Dual Sticks, Mark III |
This subject pops up from time to time but my input is probably worth
repeating one more time.
I worked for weeks designing, fabicating and installing retrofitable (word?)
dual sticks. The final result was smooth and very standard looking unit and it
worked very well. It made entry and exiting more difficult and if I had not
built center-hinged clam shell doors it would have been worse. The dual
controls were a lot of work and if they don't come as an option I don't think
they are worth the effort. I have since heard that Kolb now offers them as an
option.
Duane The Plane In Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
my good wife used to get red fluid outa my knees with Simple Green.
Grey (ex-hyd. spiller) Baron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard neilsen" <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | REFUELING -Reply |
-I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain the
hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
(Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
There was a article in EAA's mag. Sport Aviation a few months ago on just this
subject. They didn't give real advise but they did give considerable facts such
as:
Relative safety from static discharge causing a fire.
Ungrounded metal cans - Worst
Plastic cans - Better
Grounded metal cans - Best
Fuel cans build up a static charge from the movement of fuel through the spout.
The charge increases with the amount of fuel that passes through the spout. As
little as one gallon can cause a spark.
The tendency of a static charge to build to the point of a spark is increased with
the decrease of moisture in the air.
Fuel will burn only in a fairly narrow range of fuel to air mixture.
My opinions are:
If the spark occurred in a filler neck while fueling an airplane it would seem
that there would not be enough air to burn. Wind blowing into the filler neck
might change the fuel to air mixture to a burnable range. Using a funnel would
seem to allow for a better burnable fuel mixture were a spark could occur. Maybe
a rag or ??? placed around the fuel tank neck while fueling the airplane
would help? Any other ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: REFUELING -Reply |
As I recall, static is a surface charge, and obviously, will jump from
surface to surface looking for a ground. As long as you keep the filler
spout in physical contact with the tank neck you should be OK. An easy
check on this.......on a "static-y" day, shuffle your feet across the
carpet, and touch a door knob or some such. Snap ! ! ! It bites. If you
do the same thing, but hold a key, or other piece of metal in your hand,
the spark will jump from the key to the door knob, and you'll feel nothing
- up to a point. Right now, in the desert, static is so high that on
getting out of my car, the door will really nail me. The key trick works
great, but the jolt is so strong, it will make my elbow jump. A real
nuisance. Get zapped 100 times a day. Big Lar. Do
not archive.
----------
> From: Richard neilsen <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: REFUELING -Reply
> Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 8:51 AM
>
>
> -I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
> from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain
the
> hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of
Alaska)
>
> There was a article in EAA's mag. Sport Aviation a few months ago on just
this subject. They didn't give real advise but they did give considerable
facts such as:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting my Mk III |
Sorry, that was supposed to go direct to Jim Miller. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Painting my Mk III
> Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 12:26 AM
>
>
> Hi Jim: I received my Mk III kit in Nov. ' 96, and the fabric, and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | More Brake Fluid |
Thanks for the replies to my gummy brake fluid problem. I tried Lacquer
Thinner, cause I had some, and it worked beautifully. There's still some
left so I'll try the brake fluid as well. If I don't have to, I'd rather
not go buy simple green for just that. Thanks again. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: REFUELING -Reply#2 |
Richard and Kolbers, There is a little known fact about all the plastic
cans we buy now. It has a coarse plastic screen in the filler neck, it is
for the prevention of fire or flame from entering the fuel can, courtesy of
the federal government no doubt. It's not a screen to keep out debri. Just
thought I would through that in. I hope all of you got to go flying today.
It sure was pretty down here in the panhandle.--Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard neilsen <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us>
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: REFUELING -Reply
>
>-I recall being sternly admonished to refrain
>from refueling ANY aircraft from a plastic jerry car--can anyone explain
the
>hazard or the reason for the prohibition?? thanx again--Judith
> (Ithat acronym stands for Aviator Supply Center of Alaska)
>
>There was a article in EAA's mag. Sport Aviation a few months ago on just
this subject. They didn't give real advise but they did give considerable
facts such as:
>
>Relative safety from static discharge causing a fire.
>Ungrounded metal cans - Worst
>Plastic cans - Better
>Grounded metal cans - Best
>
>Fuel cans build up a static charge from the movement of fuel through the
spout. The charge increases with the amount of fuel that passes through the
spout. As little as one gallon can cause a spark.
>
>The tendency of a static charge to build to the point of a spark is
increased with the decrease of moisture in the air.
>
>Fuel will burn only in a fairly narrow range of fuel to air mixture.
>
>My opinions are:
>
> If the spark occurred in a filler neck while fueling an airplane it would
seem that there would not be enough air to burn. Wind blowing into the
filler neck might change the fuel to air mixture to a burnable range. Using
a funnel would seem to allow for a better burnable fuel mixture were a spark
could occur. Maybe a rag or ??? placed around the fuel tank neck while
fueling the airplane would help? Any other ideas?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harsh responces |
I could not agree with you more. I have "0" time as a pilot and have only
been on this site for ten days, and all I have heard for the most part is one
attacking the other. I thought this might be a good site to exspose myself in
as much information as possible before I order my fs1, but I guess I was
wrong. for the most part I,am getting very good information. but there always
are a few people who have to ruin it, if this keeps up I will no be a part of
this site.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Sticks, Mark III |
DAUNE
If you go with the twin sticks do you plane on having dual throttle's?
might be something to think about
Rick Libersat
>
>This subject pops up from time to time but my input is probably worth
>repeating one more time.
>I worked for weeks designing, fabicating and installing retrofitable
>(word?)
>dual sticks. The final result was smooth and very standard looking
>unit and it
>worked very well. It made entry and exiting more difficult and if I
>had not
>built center-hinged clam shell doors it would have been worse. The
>dual
>controls were a lot of work and if they don't come as an option I
>don't think
>they are worth the effort. I have since heard that Kolb now offers
>them as an
>option.
>
>Duane The Plane In Tallahassee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
KOLB GUY'S
I've got a question about the 912 radiator the way it is made the
discharge of the water pump is on the left looking from the rear or
looking at the prop the radiator is mounted aft of the engine now the
problem comming out of water pump to the radiator it ties to the BOTTOM
of the radiator then the water is pushed to the TOP of the radiator then
to the engine where it then goes in the 912 for cooling .I've never seen
this before isn't it suppose to come out of the water pump and discharge
to the top side of the radiator then dribble down to the bottom where it
will be forced to the engine ???
Or do you think it will make any difference . If this was a tractor , the
hook up looks like it would be ok. Dose anyone know how DENNIS S. has
the pluming on the factory
Mk. III
Rick Libersat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
rick106(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> KOLB GUY'S
>
> I've got a question about the 912 radiator the way it is made the
> discharge of the water pump is on the left looking from the rear or
> looking at the prop the radiator is mounted aft of the engine now the
> problem comming out of water pump to the radiator it ties to the BOTTOM
>
Rick and Gang:
It doesn't matter. I guarantee it will cool either way,
usually too much, especially in cooler weather. I have mine
set up that way, water enters on bottom and exits on top.
Been working over 1,000 hours, not problem.
If you wish you may rotate water pump 180 deg and do it the
opposite way. I think I did it the way I did because that
seemed the best way to do it.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Harsh responces |
>
> I could not agree with you more. I have "0" time as a pilot and have
only
> been on this site for ten days, and all I have heard for the most part
is one
> attacking the other. I thought this might be a good site to exspose
myself in
> as much information as possible before I order my fs1, but I guess I was
> wrong. for the most part I,am getting very good information. but there
always
> are a few people who have to ruin it, if this keeps up I will no be a
part of
> this site.
>
> thanks,
> Gary r. voigt
There are a few inflaming responses that succeed beyond all reason. The
"this is the type of bravado that hurts all the ultralight movement"
happens to work the best with me. Reason with me if you will, but please
don't make me throw up.
Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Sticks, Mark III |
Rick's statement that dual throttles might be good when you have dual sticks
is valid. I sold my Mark lll some time ago but while I was building it I
decided that I had already put too much time into R&D for various neat
improvements and that I needed to get it flying while I was still young.
Installing (welding) the brackets for the dual throttles I had in mind would
have to be done prior to fabric work. The design would also be at an extremely
high level of reliability because a failure in this area could mean loss of
control.
Duane the Plane in Tallahassee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Kolbers:
My old MK III is SN M3-011. My big brother Jim and I built
the fuselage at the Kolb Factory in February 1991. Jim was
helping Homer Kolb in a pinch, had just lost two welders.
Jim drove up to Pa in Jan 91, to weld for Homer for three
months. I flew up (commercial, ugh) the first of Feb.
During the day I worked in the shop for Homer, and at night
Jim and I built the fuselage for M3-011. How fortunate
could we be? We were able to build the fuselage from the
ground up, add our own requirements, primarily for my "big"
flight, have them blessed by Homer.
I have a few hours in the factory MKIII and have no problems
flying the single, center mounted stick, however, on long
XCs it is nice to be able to hold the stick with my knees in
order to take care of business in the cockpit.
During the developement and building, and developmental
testing of Miss P'fer a lot of time was spent building,
modifying, and testing the dual controls. But the effort
was worth it and I am happily flying with them.
I fly from the right seat for several reasons:
1. The throttle remains in the original location between
the seats.
2. It is natural for me to fly stick in right hand and
throttle in left.
3. Most of my flying is solo. With the original engine,
582, sitting in right seat would help offset torque effect
of left roll tendency. When it came time to install the 912
I discovered it turned the opposite direction of the 582.
This did not present a problem. The aircraft flies the
same, no roll tendency, as with the 582. I though it might
aggrevate the roll. I lucked out.
Kolb Aircraft now has a bolt in kit for dual controls. For
the price, it saves a lot of work and headaches.
john h (waiting for flying weather in hauck's holler,
alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
>KOLB GUY'S
>
>I've got a question about the 912 radiator the way it is made the
>discharge of the water pump is on the left looking from the rear or
>looking at the prop
I be leave the opening to the pump is a coo lent input and the pump drives
the coolant through the heads.
the radiator is mounted aft of the engine now the
>problem comming out of water pump to the radiator it ties to the BOTTOM
>of the radiator then the water is pushed to the TOP of the radiator then
>to the engine where it then goes in the 912 for cooling .
My radiator is mounted horizontally and the coolant flows from the high
hose connection into a manifold then through the radiator to an outlet
manifold and out the low hose connection. The hose connections are on
manifolds that serve all the coolant passages for each end.
I've never seen
>this before isn't it suppose to come out of the water pump and discharge
>to the top side of the radiator then dribble down to the bottom where it
>will be forced to the engine ???
>Or do you think it will make any difference .
My understanding is that it doesn't make a significant difference.
If this was a tractor , the
>hook up looks like it would be ok. Dose anyone know how DENNIS S. has
>the pluming on the factory
>Mk. III
The photos I received from Dennis of the 912 on their Mark III show the
radiator vertically mounted to the cage's vertical engine supports just in
front of the prop.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
| From: | Raymond L Lujon <rayul(at)juno.com> |
The purpose of this post is to, hopefully clear the air. I am the one who
stepped out of line by calling Richard Wood " a full blowen idiot " and
inferred that his conduct was " reckless ". I deeply regret making these
remarks. I apologize to Richard and anyone else on the Kolb list that was
offended. I have no desire in this life of intentionally hurting anyone.
May I briefly relate the circumstances that preceeded this outburst?
First a little ancient history. I totaled my Firestar last April. Why?
Basically because of inadequate training. I was not hurt, except for my
pride and deep bruise marks from my shoulders to my crouch. The steel
cage saved me. As I walked away, I couldn't believe I was alive and
unhurt. You have to go through it to know what I felt. But oddly, even
though I was devastated by my stupidity, there was a sense of relief. I
knew deep down, it was just a matter of time before this was going to
happen, but I didn't have the ability to admit my limitations to myself.
Pride and ego are hard to overcome. I hear the expression, "you know best
if you are ready ". Some do know, some don't and some can't face the
facts. In my case, I was hard to get through to. So much for that.
Second, I had just read a post, off list from a new acquaintance who
totaled his Kolb last year being his own test pilot. Some of you know
him. He prefers to remain anonymous. He is still suffering emotional
medical problems from the traumatic experience. I contacted him several
months ago, since I felt we had something in common. Then I read where
Howard, the newbee was turning down the services of an experienced test
pilot and I became very concerned. I contacted Howard direct and gave him
some pointers on what to expect on takeoff and the gradual use of the
throttle. I went direct to him because as I said to him, I felt
uncomfortable discussing this in front of the old timers where takeoffs
are second nature. Also I had not seen specifics discussed with him on
the list. As Howard said," going from a Quicksilver to a Firestar is like
going from a Volkswagen to a Ferrari ". Then the post pleading that he
use a test pilot was ( perceived by me at least ) poo-pooed by Richard
Wood by comparing his personal experience. The expression, "Sometimes you
just have to put your balls on the line for the fun of it ", was just too
much. I was wrong for going ballistic but I was genuinely concerned for
the safety of Howard.
Please provide me with information on how to take myself off the Kolb
list. Why do I want off? Because I think my presence deters from the real
issue here. That is solving a very serious problem throughout the entire
ultralight community," how to provide quality training " and " the need
to use a test pilot on that first flight". Training is virtually non
existent in many sections of the country, but I don't see adquate efforts
being made to resolve it. Maybe this will be a turning point.
I have enjoyed my time on the list. I received much usefull information
and I hope made a positive contribution. I am the one who developed and
promoted the use of the LONG Firestar windshield. I know of at least a
half a dozen members of this list who are currently using this
improvement. I also came up with the idea of using water skis as snow
skis. If you feel a need to flame me after I leave, go right ahead, but
first ask yourself what was your last contribution to the Kolb list.
Finally ( to the few who have read this far ) if I may be so bold as to
offer a suggestion to improve the list......don't be so thin skinned. I
know it's nice to have a little chat room that is " warm and fuzzy "
without any rancor. But that makes for a list that has all the
personality of a 19th century German book on mathematics. It's not like
life. Life has its good ,bad, smart , stupid, boring and facinating. All
have a contribution to be made.You do have a tendency to eliminate those
who step out of line. And God help those who are not from this country
and criticize in English and lack the proper spelling, grammar or
technological know how.
I wish to each and all, the best that this life has to offer. DO NOT
ARCHIVE
Raymond Lujon....Woodbury, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Raymond L Lujon wrote:
>
>
> The purpose of this post is to, hopefully clear the air. I am the one who
Ray and fellow Kolbers:
Takes a big man or woman to admit a mistake. Don't know but
one who is perfect and he departed the AO (operational area)
about 2,000 years ago. So I guess we all, most especially
me, make mistakes.
Ray, I pesonally accept your appology. I don't think
anything further is required, most of all a resignation from
the List. I do not want to see you go.
I know where you are coming from. If you have never been
involved in an aircraft accident that could have easily been
fatal, and survived, then you don't really share that
feeling. I have been in three very near fatal accidents in
ultralights, and a fourth that wasn't deadly, but sure
pounded the crap out of me.
Ray's outburst was an uncontrolable urge to reach out and
help someone that may be ready to make a mistake. How many
times have we heard of people who "just know they can fly
this airplane they built", only to die trying? Been more
than a few.
I test flew my Ultrastar and never had a minute of fixed
wing training. I had a few hours flying Army helicopters,
but no fixed wing. I did a lot of reading, especially
"stick and rudder" manuals, but that did not fully prepare
me to be a test pilot of the first little airplane I built.
I thank God I made it thru that experience some 15 years
ago.
As far as I am concerned "the air is clear."
john h {spitting snow in the heart of dixie???}
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/23/99 12:44:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, rayul(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Please provide me with information on how to take myself off the Kolb
list. Why do I want off? >>
Now tell me again why anyone with so much to offer the list is going to
unsubscribe?
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Raymond,
I would strongly urge you to stay on the list. Everybody will at some
point say something by email they later regret. Now you know how easy
it is to do that. Email is great but has a lot of limitations that we
forget about. It doesn't allow for the audience to know the full context,
etc etc. It is *easy* to see why you wrote 'full blown idiot' after
seeing your experience in your followup post. I personally took your
'fullblownidiot' statment as a passionate statment, and recognize that
sometimes people push Send a little early. No big thing, *especially*
considering the apology and background context you just gave.
Stay on, you have a lot to offer. As well, there could be another
tidbit in here some day that will save your hide.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centuryinter.net> |
Raymond Lujon I have great respect for your posts and hope you will stay.
I dont want anybody, least of all you, getting off the list cause I asked
for a little civility. And I dont want this to be a warm fuzzy group
either. But I do want the posts to address the issues not the
personalities.
issues:
I know that Sean tucker is one of the best aerobatic pilots in the world but
none the less I think he is irresponsible in the way he flies. sure its his
job to thrill the crowd but he is taking enough risks every time he flies
that I think he is going to crash someday.
Personalities:
That Sean Tucker is an irresponsible Bone head and I bet he dies someday
doing all those low level snap rolls.
I have never been insulted or offended buy any posts... I just think the
first way of posting is more valuable, more to the point, and I think at
least, the more persuasive an arguement. By the way I agree that very low
time pilots are best served by having a higher time pilot check out new
planes. My idea of appropriate training for ultralights is to get dual
instruction in a taildragger of higher performance then the ultralight your
going to fly all the way through solo.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
I keep my Firestar in an enclosed trailer at home and take it to Bennett
Airfield on
the NE side of Salisbury, Md. It is a very ultralight friendly airport on
Marylands lovely
eastern shore (30 mi. W of Ocean City, Md).There is a fair amount of sky-
diving activity at this airport and numerous antennas in the area.
There is a "T" shaped runway, base length 3200 ft, top length 2600 ft. If
anyone on the list is ever so inclined to take a little X-C to the area,
please give me a heads at (410)749-9495 and I will be glad to meet you there.
Rick Klebon
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey people,
I've have a question for someone with experience with 2si (Cuyuna) engines.
I'm considering the purchase of a Firestar I and need some background on using
the 2si engine of 35-40 horsepower on this aircraft. Based on factory specs,
the initial aquisition cost seems lower (as well as the installed weight) than
the competition (i.e. Rotax, Hirth, etc).
I have experience racing two stroke engines so I'm comfortable "fussing" with
them to acheive peak performance, but i do have a concern about operational
reliability and longevity (you get what you pay for!).
I sincerely appreciate anyone's feedback....not matter how limited.
Thanks.
M. Caesar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harsh responces |
thanks for the info.
Gary r. voigt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Eastman <eastman(at)rootscomputing.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
If you leave this list then the rest of us all lose something too. Do as
you wish, but I would like to suggest that you remain and continue to
describe your experiences and your thoughts wherever you deem appropriate.
Reasonably-expressed ideas such as yours are always welcomed here at my place.
I have a Kolb FireFly sitting in my garage all set to fly and I certainly
appreciate your comments.
- Dick
>
>The purpose of this post is to, hopefully clear the air. I am the one who
>stepped out of line by calling Richard Wood " a full blowen idiot " and
>inferred that his conduct was " reckless ". I deeply regret making these
>remarks. I apologize to Richard and anyone else on the Kolb list that was
>offended. I have no desire in this life of intentionally hurting anyone.
>
>May I briefly relate the circumstances that preceeded this outburst?
>First a little ancient history. I totaled my Firestar last April. Why?
>Basically because of inadequate training. I was not hurt, except for my
>pride and deep bruise marks from my shoulders to my crouch. The steel
>cage saved me. As I walked away, I couldn't believe I was alive and
>unhurt. You have to go through it to know what I felt. But oddly, even
>though I was devastated by my stupidity, there was a sense of relief. I
>knew deep down, it was just a matter of time before this was going to
>happen, but I didn't have the ability to admit my limitations to myself.
>Pride and ego are hard to overcome. I hear the expression, "you know best
>if you are ready ". Some do know, some don't and some can't face the
>facts. In my case, I was hard to get through to. So much for that.
>
>Second, I had just read a post, off list from a new acquaintance who
>totaled his Kolb last year being his own test pilot. Some of you know
>him. He prefers to remain anonymous. He is still suffering emotional
>medical problems from the traumatic experience. I contacted him several
>months ago, since I felt we had something in common. Then I read where
>Howard, the newbee was turning down the services of an experienced test
>pilot and I became very concerned. I contacted Howard direct and gave him
>some pointers on what to expect on takeoff and the gradual use of the
>throttle. I went direct to him because as I said to him, I felt
>uncomfortable discussing this in front of the old timers where takeoffs
>are second nature. Also I had not seen specifics discussed with him on
>the list. As Howard said," going from a Quicksilver to a Firestar is like
>going from a Volkswagen to a Ferrari ". Then the post pleading that he
>use a test pilot was ( perceived by me at least ) poo-pooed by Richard
>Wood by comparing his personal experience. The expression, "Sometimes you
>just have to put your balls on the line for the fun of it ", was just too
>much. I was wrong for going ballistic but I was genuinely concerned for
>the safety of Howard.
>
>Please provide me with information on how to take myself off the Kolb
>list. Why do I want off? Because I think my presence deters from the real
>issue here. That is solving a very serious problem throughout the entire
>ultralight community," how to provide quality training " and " the need
>to use a test pilot on that first flight". Training is virtually non
>existent in many sections of the country, but I don't see adquate efforts
>being made to resolve it. Maybe this will be a turning point.
>
>I have enjoyed my time on the list. I received much usefull information
>and I hope made a positive contribution. I am the one who developed and
>promoted the use of the LONG Firestar windshield. I know of at least a
>half a dozen members of this list who are currently using this
>improvement. I also came up with the idea of using water skis as snow
>skis. If you feel a need to flame me after I leave, go right ahead, but
>first ask yourself what was your last contribution to the Kolb list.
>
>Finally ( to the few who have read this far ) if I may be so bold as to
>offer a suggestion to improve the list......don't be so thin skinned. I
>know it's nice to have a little chat room that is " warm and fuzzy "
>without any rancor. But that makes for a list that has all the
>personality of a 19th century German book on mathematics. It's not like
>life. Life has its good ,bad, smart , stupid, boring and facinating. All
>have a contribution to be made.You do have a tendency to eliminate those
>who step out of line. And God help those who are not from this country
>and criticize in English and lack the proper spelling, grammar or
>technological know how.
>
>I wish to each and all, the best that this life has to offer. DO NOT
>ARCHIVE
>
> Raymond Lujon....Woodbury, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Save yourself some headaches and buy a Rotax. It ain't worth a dime savings
if you go down in the trees just because you know how to fiddle with it. You
can't tune it in the air. Aircraft engines are a breed apart from racing
engines. My 2$ WORTH.-- Firehawk, Just thinking out loud.
-----Original Message-----
From: MCaesar(at)aol.com <MCaesar(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: transitions
>
>Hey people,
>
>I've have a question for someone with experience with 2si (Cuyuna) engines.
>
>I'm considering the purchase of a Firestar I and need some background on
using
>the 2si engine of 35-40 horsepower on this aircraft. Based on factory
specs,
>the initial aquisition cost seems lower (as well as the installed weight)
than
>the competition (i.e. Rotax, Hirth, etc).
>
>I have experience racing two stroke engines so I'm comfortable "fussing"
with
>them to acheive peak performance, but i do have a concern about operational
>reliability and longevity (you get what you pay for!).
>
>I sincerely appreciate anyone's feedback....not matter how limited.
>
>Thanks.
>
>M. Caesar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
If you want a new or rebuilt 447 cheap, I can give you the E-mail. Give me a
call. You have my address. --Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: MCaesar(at)aol.com <MCaesar(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: transitions
>
>Hey people,
>
>I've have a question for someone with experience with 2si (Cuyuna) engines.
>
>I'm considering the purchase of a Firestar I and need some background on
using
>the 2si engine of 35-40 horsepower on this aircraft. Based on factory
specs,
>the initial aquisition cost seems lower (as well as the installed weight)
than
>the competition (i.e. Rotax, Hirth, etc).
>
>I have experience racing two stroke engines so I'm comfortable "fussing"
with
>them to acheive peak performance, but i do have a concern about operational
>reliability and longevity (you get what you pay for!).
>
>I sincerely appreciate anyone's feedback....not matter how limited.
>
>Thanks.
>
>M. Caesar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net> |
I don't think the 2si engine will not get you to legal 103 weight. So
the question is something else.
The Rotax is more reliable. If you look at the way they are cooled, the
Rotax blows air through both cylinders from the side. The Cayuna (2si)
blows air through the front cylinder and this same air then cools the
back cylinder. Sounds like a little thing doesn't it. It ain't.
To pull the cylinders on the Cayuna 2si, you have to loosen the bolts
holding the crankcase together.
I really don't care for that "feature". Having said all this, I am
rebuilding an old Quicksilver MX and I am using a 2si 460F-35 with cog
belt drive reduction. I bought the engine new and have breakin time on
it only. I've yet to fly the plane, hoping for maiden flight in May. I
confess that reliability is my biggest concern. The big reason I went
with this engine is that I am trying to get under 254 pounds and the
engine and drive reduction with exhaust, carb, and air filter weighs 71
pounds.
Wish me luck!
Woody Weaver
Michael Highsmith wrote:
>
>
> Save yourself some headaches and buy a Rotax. It ain't worth a dime savings
> if you go down in the trees just because you know how to fiddle with it. You
> can't tune it in the air. Aircraft engines are a breed apart from racing
> engines. My 2$ WORTH.-- Firehawk, Just thinking out loud.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MCaesar(at)aol.com <MCaesar(at)aol.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: transitions
>
> >
> >Hey people,
> >
> >I've have a question for someone with experience with 2si (Cuyuna) engines.
> >
> >I'm considering the purchase of a Firestar I and need some background on
> using
> >the 2si engine of 35-40 horsepower on this aircraft. Based on factory
> specs,
> >the initial aquisition cost seems lower (as well as the installed weight)
> than
> >the competition (i.e. Rotax, Hirth, etc).
> >
> >I have experience racing two stroke engines so I'm comfortable "fussing"
> with
> >them to acheive peak performance, but i do have a concern about operational
> >reliability and longevity (you get what you pay for!).
> >
> >I sincerely appreciate anyone's feedback....not matter how limited.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >M. Caesar
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>Hey people,
>
>I've have a question for someone with experience with 2si (Cuyuna) engines.
It aint got enough horses, and won't last nearly as long, wore out three of
them back in the eighties, it that's the model your looking at.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
So here's a coincidental angle. Somebody (a stranger) has called me to
ask if I would do the maiden flight in his FSII. My first answer was no,
largely influenced by "policy" set by my wife.. I feel some obligation
to help this be as safe a sport as possible, yet my wife doesn't feel any
need to lend out her husband as a "test pilot" (that has such a risky
sound to it!). I also feel I can make this a safe venture. So now I
need to decide whether to push it with my wife or be just a little bit
of a heel to the guy asking me. Not sure how this will turn out, but
am curious how those of you feel who have volunteered to do the maiden
voyage for others, especially those of you with a loving wife and kids
to answer to. If I do it, you can bet I'll check that plane inside out,
including of course doing my own W&B. I can't easily just go take
an innocent peek as he is 3.5 hours drive away. Comments?
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
In a message dated 2/22/99 9:31:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, mts0140(at)ibm.net
writes:
<< I believe the first thing a pilot should do in a new plane is
get some altitude over a safe place and learn how the craft stalls.
Woody Weaver
PaulSpadin(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > We had two Firestar 2's bite the dust last summer in USUA club 4
(maryland).
> They are still rebuilding.
> Each pilot got about 30 seconds in their new Kolb.
> One had at least 20 Hours in UL's and the other had GA time.
> Just letting you know... >>
Hear! Hear! Woody....stall practice is a MANDATORY in my book! and should be
the 1st thing done...so that you'll know at what speed to land that
puppy!..............GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
Ben Ransom wrote:
>
>
> So here's a coincidental angle. Somebody (a stranger) has called me to
> ask if I would do the maiden flight in his FSII. My first answer was no,
>
Ben and Gang:
It is a big decision to test fly a homebuilt airplane, built
by another, especially the first one built by that
individual.
Here's how I do it:
1. Thorough preflight.
2. Thorough runup.
3. At least a couple thousand feet airstrip, more is
better.
4. Not more than a couple spectators/helpers.
5. Go easy into the first takeoff. Stay within a foot or
two of the runway. Feel out the airplane (whether it is
going to fly or not (any unusual sensations/movements). If
the airplane of pilot screw up, not problem at that
altitude.
6. Then when satisfied climb to altitude and continue with
flight test.
I am a parachute type of guy, so I demand an onboard
parachute.
If I follow those guidelines I don't think I am risking my
buns any more than a normal flight in my own airplane.
john h (hauck's holler, alabama)
PS: Take a real close look at things that have given people
problems in the past: Missing bolts/nuts, improperly swaged
nicropress sleeves, poor fabric work/cement joints, and
anything unusual and out of the norm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Position Lights, sources |
We decided to put on posistion lights on our Mark III.
Sure would be most appreciative for a post of a source(s) for reasonably
priced units. (would you believe we don't have a single UL supply catalog as
yet!!!)
regards, Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Reasonably priced nav lights? |
HGRAFF(at)aol.com was looking for reasonably priced nav lights for his MKIII.
There is no such thing as reasonably priced nav lights. That's why I made
my own.
You can look at them at (assuming I can remember the URL and get it right...)
http://angelfire.com/tn/kolbmkiii/index.html
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PaulSpadin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
HI Rick
I belong to club #4 Capial area lite flyers.We fly thru your area every summer
and sometimes stop at Bennett field . I'll let you know next time this summer.
The present plan is for july 24/25.
paulspadin(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <olendorf(at)empireone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
I would add to this an agreement as to who pays for any damages done to the
plane if something goes wrong.
Scott Olendorf
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maiden: who me?
|
|
|Ben Ransom wrote:
|>
|>
|> So here's a coincidental angle. Somebody (a stranger) has called me to
|> ask if I would do the maiden flight in his FSII. My first answer was no,
|>
|
|Ben and Gang:
|
|It is a big decision to test fly a homebuilt airplane, built
|by another, especially the first one built by that
|individual.
|
|Here's how I do it:
|
|1. Thorough preflight.
|
|2. Thorough runup.
|
|3. At least a couple thousand feet airstrip, more is
|better.
|
|4. Not more than a couple spectators/helpers.
|
|5. Go easy into the first takeoff. Stay within a foot or
|two of the runway. Feel out the airplane (whether it is
|going to fly or not (any unusual sensations/movements). If
|the airplane of pilot screw up, not problem at that
|altitude.
|
|6. Then when satisfied climb to altitude and continue with
|flight test.
|
|I am a parachute type of guy, so I demand an onboard
|parachute.
|
|If I follow those guidelines I don't think I am risking my
|buns any more than a normal flight in my own airplane.
|
|john h (hauck's holler, alabama)
|
|PS: Take a real close look at things that have given people
|problems in the past: Missing bolts/nuts, improperly swaged
|nicropress sleeves, poor fabric work/cement joints, and
|anything unusual and out of the norm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Smart" <gsmart(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Reasonably priced nav lights? |
Hi Richard and others,
I read through you home page and noticed you built a switching device to
activate you Hobbs meter, another way which is fool proof is outlined in the
CPS catalogue on page 77 of the Rotax section at the back.
Purchase from Radio Shack part # 276-1171 a Full Wave Bridge rectifier and
wire as per page 77 instructions or connect the to wire AC side to your
alternator output the same 2 that go to you other rectifier and then from
the DC side of the New rectifier connect those direct to the Hobbs.
You can even earth one side of the DC to the frame and use only one wire to
the Hobbs and earth the other.
The only way your Hobbs will work is for the motor to be running.
All for about $2.00 and some 1 hrs work.
Hope it helps.
Geoff
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Date: Thursday, 25 February 1999 0:33
Subject: Kolb-List: Reasonably priced nav lights?
>
>HGRAFF(at)aol.com was looking for reasonably priced nav lights for his MKIII.
>
>There is no such thing as reasonably priced nav lights. That's why I made
>my own.
> You can look at them at (assuming I can remember the URL and get it
right...)
>http://angelfire.com/tn/kolbmkiii/index.html
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Ben,
I have test flown four Kolb aircraft besides my own. This does not
necessarily make me a brave individual, I simply feel the design of the
plane is solid enough that a builder would really have to screw the thing
up to make it un-airworthy. I keep in mind that most accidents and
incidents are pilot error (about 85% and probably higher on first
flights), and if those statistics can be greatly reduced through
experience, the risk is relatively low. I limit myself to Kolbs only,
this way the "unknowns" are lower still. About the worst thing that can
happen is the engine can quit on takeoff. I ask the builder if a complete
break-in procedure was done, where the engine is run at full throttle for
2 minutes. If it runs that long, most likely it will continue to run.
Here are the problems I've encountered during the maiden test flight.
1) Mark II - the throttle cable was slipping on the sheath and the engine
(503) developed about 75% power. Did not see this during a runup.
2) Mark II (same plane) - after a few hours of flight time the stick
became very stiff in lateral control. I had a difficult time landing it
in gusty conditions (the rod-end bearing at the bottom of the stick froze
up).
3) UltraStar - the stick positioning for level flight was way off to the
right and I had centered it when the plane banked to the right on
takeoff.
4) FireStar II - the IAS was not registering proper airspeed. It would
not move above 32mph. Removing the static line on back of the instrument
worked. The plane flies well without a working IAS (don't let this one
get to you). On preflight of this plane, I noticed a tail-fold nut was
not tightened.
5) FireStar I - the engine would not hold idle when throttled back. This
could have been potentially dangerous if I didn't plan a high approach.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
>
>
>So here's a coincidental angle. Somebody (a stranger) has called me
>to
>ask if I would do the maiden flight in his FSII. My first answer was
>no,
>-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
| From: | Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> |
Kolb-listers,
I am ready to form the round bow tips for the the wings. The instruction
manual explains how to bend it around an automobile tire. The tire I
have. I do not have a couple of bodies to hold it down. The only
available body is my bride. If I wet her down and fill her pockets with
rocks she still comes in at only 120 pounds. I don't think that is
enough to hold the wheel while I bend the tube. I have solved this by
bolting the tire to a secured bench.
My question to the list is "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
similar material to keep it from kinking?". There is no mention in the
builders manual of this being a necessity.
Thanks from this first time builder.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
Ray
My partner and I just finished the bow tips a few weeks ago. We did just
as the plans said to do. We took a wheel and tire assembly off of an old
triumph (13 inch ) and bent the tube around it. Fortunately there were
two of us to do this. The tubing bent just fine with out kinking. The
results can be see at
http://www.digisys.net/users/paulv/MKiii/PTWingtip.JPG
The rest of our progress starts from this page
http://www.digisys.net/users/paulv/home.htm select Our MKIII
construction log.
Paul V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Harsh responces |
>>
>>
>NO NO NO!
>I was thinking of that guy with "dual sticks" whatever the hell that is.
>
>Woody
>
>>
Oops I must be coming down with Hauks disease. I sent this to the list
instead of just Woody.
For the record--- being called a full blown idiot did not offend me, You
have to do better than that to bother me. The world is too full of sharp and
pointy things to be able to afford a thin skin.
I wasn't poo pooing the idea of using a test pilot I just do not believe
that is the only way to go. Using my own personal experiences in flying and
life I have the belief that if you are knowledgeable and cautious do not
exceed your skill levels or do anything other than a gentle take off, a
short cruise in ground effect,go for altitude, do gentle turns and in
general fly like the proverbial old lady you should be able to handle this
if you have some flying experience under your belt. If the landing setup
doesn't feel right go around and do it again.
After all there will come a time when you will have to fly it yourself
for the first time.
My apology to the list if my comments led you to believe I was not safety
conscious or suffered male bravado.
Woody
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Harsh responces |
Woodman, "Sharp and pointy things" I like that. It will go a long way.
Firehawk
-----Original Message-----
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Harsh responces
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>NO NO NO!
>>I was thinking of that guy with "dual sticks" whatever the hell that is.
>>
>>Woody
>>
>>>
>
> Oops I must be coming down with Hauks disease. I sent this to the list
>instead of just Woody.
> For the record--- being called a full blown idiot did not offend me, You
>have to do better than that to bother me. The world is too full of sharp
and
>pointy things to be able to afford a thin skin.
> I wasn't poo pooing the idea of using a test pilot I just do not believe
>that is the only way to go. Using my own personal experiences in flying and
>life I have the belief that if you are knowledgeable and cautious do not
>exceed your skill levels or do anything other than a gentle take off, a
>short cruise in ground effect,go for altitude, do gentle turns and in
>general fly like the proverbial old lady you should be able to handle this
>if you have some flying experience under your belt. If the landing setup
>doesn't feel right go around and do it again.
> After all there will come a time when you will have to fly it yourself
>for the first time.
> My apology to the list if my comments led you to believe I was not safety
>conscious or suffered male bravado.
>
>
> Woody
>
>
> Woody
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
m.caesar, i would like to respond to your posting about 2si engines. i
had an ultrastar with a cuyuna 35 hp on it. never had a bit of problems with
the engine. as far as i'm concerned they're every bit as reliable as rotax.
the only complaint i have is with the carburator, it was a mikuni. never could
get the carb right. i had a mikuni on my harley - davidson and it gave me
nothing but problems. as far as i'm concerned mikuni's carbs are junk but the
2si engine is a good buy. just go with a bing carb .................. tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
Seems like up to a year ago there were rumors that the new Cuyunas (2si)
were siezure prone. I'm not wanting to mention this to spread rumor.
Instead, since nobody has made mention of that here so far, does that
mean those problems have been corrected? I don't keep an ear to the
ground on 2si but if I were shopping for an engine, I'd want to be
comfortable that the problems were over with.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden Flight |
Paul
Sounds good to me ,I'll be ready .Don't want to sound to much like a
dummy ,this Bennett field ? where is it at this sounds like someone's
private strip , the #4 Capial is that around AUSTIN, I am down around
BEAUMONT TX.
I will pass this on to our EAA club 223 members . see you in July.
Rick Libersat
>
>HI Rick
>I belong to club #4 Capial area lite flyers.We fly thru your area
>every summer
>and sometimes stop at Bennett field . I'll let you know next time this
>summer.
>The present plan is for july 24/25.
>paulspadin(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
Ray
don't know about that but if you have a floor fan in your shop with a
round base on it that will work just fine used C-clamps to hold the fan
base to the table nailed a block 3\4 in. from fan base layed the wing tip
bow between base an block then walked her around, both tips came out the
exactly the same.
Rick Libersat
>
>Kolb-listers,
>
>I am ready to form the round bow tips for the the wings. The
>instruction
>manual explains how to bend it around an automobile tire. The tire I
>have. I do not have a couple of bodies to hold it down. The only
>available body is my bride. If I wet her down and fill her pockets
>with
>rocks she still comes in at only 120 pounds. I don't think that is
>enough to hold the wheel while I bend the tube. I have solved this by
>bolting the tire to a secured bench.
>
>My question to the list is "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
>similar material to keep it from kinking?". There is no mention in
>the
>builders manual of this being a necessity.
>
>Thanks from this first time builder.
>
>L. Ray Baker
>Lake Butler, Fl
>Building Mark III
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
Ben
I know just how you feel ,The thrill of test flying someone plane has
to be a great feeling and a honer for this guy to put the trust in you
to do it ,their is no doubt in my mind that you can fly this bird I have
seen your pictures and some of the places that you have landed in .No
question about it ,you would go over this plane with a finer tooth comb
than you did with your aircraft. But if your wife feels uneasy about it
then I would have to go along with her . You don't need to give her
something to sling back at you later on down the road , If you know what
I mean I don't want to sound like a preacher or any thing like that , but
I have ate crow before I bet you had an idea what she was going to say
,and you probley thought about just flying it anyway then tell her after
you checked it out. ok end of sermon
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>So here's a coincidental angle. Somebody (a stranger) has called me
>to
>ask if I would do the maiden flight in his FSII. My first answer was
>no,
>largely influenced by "policy" set by my wife.. I feel some
>obligation
>to help this be as safe a sport as possible, yet my wife doesn't feel
>any
>need to lend out her husband as a "test pilot" (that has such a risky
>sound to it!). I also feel I can make this a safe venture. So now I
>need to decide whether to push it with my wife or be just a little bit
>of a heel to the guy asking me. Not sure how this will turn out, but
>am curious how those of you feel who have volunteered to do the maiden
>voyage for others, especially those of you with a loving wife and kids
>to answer to. If I do it, you can bet I'll check that plane inside
>out,
>including of course doing my own W&B. I can't easily just go take
>an innocent peek as he is 3.5 hours drive away. Comments?
>
>-Ben Ransom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
Anyone got a BRS 750 canister chute for a 6 inch boom tube or the new BRS
VLS 750lb chute in excellent condition they would like to sell - the
factory is backed up 4 weeks or more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
perhaps my first posting about 2si engines is an exception. i see there
are others who feel differently about the reliability of cuyunas and their
modern replacement the 2si. i was not aware of siezure problems with 2si . i
don't know, perhaps i'm wrong .......... tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Correction guys: I had to hold the stick to right as the plane wanted to
roll to the LEFT on takeoff .......
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:16:55 ul15rhb writes:
>3) UltraStar - the stick positioning for level flight was way off to
>the right and I had centered it when the plane banked to the right on
>takeoff.
>Ralph Burlingame
>Original FireStar, 447 powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard neilsen" <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Mark III Wing Bow Tip -Reply |
I found a technique that worked for me. I positioned the unbent wing tip bow with
one end secured vertically in a vice on a work bench. I located a front tractor
tire with deep ribs and put it on the bench next to the unbent bow. I then
grabbed the free end of the unbent bow and bent it over the tractor tire. I
easily bent the bow by myself with no kinks. The ribbed tire made the operation
easer as the bow fell right into a rib and helped keep the tire/bow in position
while bending.
>>> Ray L Baker 02/24/99 07:22pm >>>
Kolb-listers,
I am ready to form the round bow tips for the the wings. The instruction
manual explains how to bend it around an automobile tire. The tire I
have.
My question to the list is "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
similar material to keep it from kinking?". There is no mention in the
builders manual of this being a necessity.
Thanks from this first time builder.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
In a message dated 2/24/99 7:37:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, rbaker2(at)juno.com
writes:
<< "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
similar material to keep it from kinking?" >>
A perfectly good idea, though I did mine without it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Maiden: who me? |
In a message dated 2/24/99 7:17:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes:
<< I simply feel the design of the
plane is solid enough that a builder would really have to screw the thing
up to make it un-airworthy. >>
I generally agree with your position. On the other hand one of the
scariest kolb fatalities I have ever heard about was the guy who forgot to
install the big bolts that hold the wing strut tangs to the wing spar on a
mark II. The only thing holding the struts to the spars were the four rivets
per side. Apparently he got high enough on his first flight before they
failed that he was able to kill himself. The worst of it was he was an
experienced builder, the Mark II was his SECOND Kolb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
>My question to the list is "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
>similar material to keep it from kinking
I tried to bend my tubes around a tire twice and got kinks. I used a large
quick grip clamp to hold the tube to the tire, instead of a wall, that
worked real well, I dont think that was the cause of the kinks. I was using
a small, mini spare tire for the curve cause I wanted it a smaller radious
then most people use and I think that was the problem. I ended up building
a tool that was a big wooden copy of a tubing bender. got a 8 inch radius
on the tube with no kinks. Did not fill the tube with sand.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
Someone suggested that I have an auxilliary fuel pump installed with the
912 on my Mrk III as added protection from an engine-out on takeoff and
landing. Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? (or wish they
were?).
Thanks,
Erich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
. Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? (or wish
they
> were?).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erich
Erich:
I use a Facet Electronic Fuel Pump as aux for 912, also for
582 and 447.
It is useful as a replacement for the infamous primer bulb,
just flip the fuel pump switch and it'll pump up the carbs.
I use mine on t/o, lower altitude flying usually below 1,000
agl, and landing. Anytime I might get in a situation if I
lost the eng driven pump I would not have time to flip the
aux pump to save the day and my buns.
Never had a moments trouble with eng driven pump, but am
probably more prone for failure now than ever before with
over 1,000 hours on it.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Wing Bow Tip |
>My question to the list is "Do I need to fill the tube with sand or
>similar material to keep it from kinking?". There is no mention in the
>builders manual of this being a necessity.
>
>L. Ray Baker
Ray
I had my 90 lb daughter stand on the spare tire and used the wall as an
anchor on the free end. The alum. tube wrapped around the tire easily
without any filler and provides a nice smooth bend. The greatest
difficulty was in establishing a 90 degree bend. There is spring in the
tube and the tire that requires bending beyond the desired angle.
Have fun
Ron
Also building a Mark III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
In a message dated 2/25/99 12:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, sbaew(at)dames.com
writes:
<< Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? >>
I use a facet pump to boost the fuel in my 582 powered mark 3. See my page at
The N496BM
Homepage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
Have Faucet aux fuel pump parallel to 912 engine pump supply line mounted
below low fuel level in tanks and controlled by on/off switch mounted on
alum plate in front of LH seat with small green indicator light on dash to
remind me of the status.I am also installing a fuel pressure indicator as
part of EIS engine monitoring scheme.
Frank Reynen MKIII@485hrs
http://www.webcom.com/reynen/mark3.html
Someone suggested that I have an auxilliary fuel pump installed with the
912 on my Mrk III as added protection from an engine-out on takeoff and
landing. Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? (or wish they
were?).
Thanks,
Erich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard C Webb" <RICKWW(at)prodigy.net> |
Has anyone done a dual stic conv.on MK111,how about dual throttles?Much
trouble?
Thanks,
Rick Webb
Milford,De
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Swartz <tswartz(at)desupernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
Erich
I also use the electric facet pump in series with the 912 engine pump. I works
for backup and to fill the carbs for quicker starting in your plane has been
sitting for awhile. If you hook them in series which is the simplest, get the
low pressure one so you don't exceed the maximum pressure allowed for the
carbs. As I recall low pressure was 2 - 2.5 psi. verses 4 psi.
Terry
Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 wrote:
>
> Someone suggested that I have an auxilliary fuel pump installed with the
> 912 on my Mrk III as added protection from an engine-out on takeoff and
> landing. Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? (or wish they
> were?).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erich
>
name="tswartz.vcf"
filename="tswartz.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Swartz;Terry
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:Tswartz(at)desupernet.net
note:http://users.success.net/tswartz/
fn:Terry Swartz
end:vcard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William V Rayfield <rayfiwv(at)mail.auburn.edu> |
Mike Highsmith,
My father and I are nearing the first flight of our new Ultrastar. We
recieved your name from Ted Cowan of Opelika, Al. as a source for a
possible bit of exposure to taildraggers. If possible, could you email me
only in response (just to keep from tieing up the list) so we could speak
privately? Your response is greatly appreciated.
Bill Rayfield
"I'm not smart, but I sure am slow!"
Mechanical Engineering Student
Auburn University
"War Eagle"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aux. fuel pump? |
I have dual fuel pumps on the MKIII with a 532. A facet electric, and the
Mikuni pulse.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>Someone suggested that I have an auxilliary fuel pump installed with the
>912 on my Mrk III as added protection from an engine-out on takeoff and
>landing. Are other Kolbers using auxilliary fuel pumps? (or wish they
>were?).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Erich
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK111 Dual stic |
Had dual throttles, worked OK, but took one off. Never used the one on the
passenger side, and it had the potential to get the seat belt wrapped
around it by those unaware of the potential. I now just have one on the
fuselage side by my left thigh/left hand.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>Has anyone done a dual stic conv.on MK111,how about dual throttles?Much
>trouble?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Webb
> Milford,De
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mick Fine <froghair(at)busprod.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK111 Dual stic |
>
>Had dual throttles, worked OK, but took one off. Never used the one on the
>passenger side, and it had the potential to get the seat belt wrapped
>around it by those unaware of the potential. I now just have one on the
>fuselage side by my left thigh/left hand.
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
Here's another twist - so to speak. The Twinstar was designed for dual
throttles, it uses a torque tube running just aft of the front seat support
with handles on each end (pilot throttle=left hand, co-pilot=right hand).
My co-pilot throttle would be needed very rarely so I thought about making
the handle removeable to avoid tangles. On the odd occasion I want it, it
would be easy to slip it over the torque tube and put a #10 bolt thru it.
...Might work...
-Mick Fine
Tulsa, Oklahoma
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/25/99 6:31:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com writes:
<< perhaps my first posting about 2si engines is an exception. i see there
are others who feel differently about the reliability of cuyunas and their
modern replacement the 2si. i was not aware of siezure problems with 2si .
i
don't know, perhaps i'm wrong .......... tim
>>
tim...I had a pterodactyl with a cuyunna 420 or something like that and it had
an "illegal" muffler on it which would allow the engine to put out 5 hp more
than it was designed for....this muffler was considered a resonant chamber I
guess and was very popular on the Cuyunna. Another thing that was very popular
was the lack ot use of the EGT meter for monitoring exhaust gas. I have a 447
rotax now but wouldn't even consider flying without an EGT...NOW.! I would
not be too surprised if my 2 freezeups were caused by me not being able to
monitor the EGT on my ol DAC. But in those days...'83-90, most ulers didn't
use any instrumentation except ASI and would be subject to freezeups out of
sheer ignorance of their temperature. Both of my freezeups happened on takeoff
at full throttle!...I got to 75 ft and heard a buncha silence and nosed over
immediately but not enough and came down like a HEAVY leaf...flat down...and
broke an axel...cost me all of $20 to repair and taught me a lot about the
integrety of the ol dac, but I didn't learn anything about why the engine
froze(at that time). It froze again about a year later (I had done nothing to
even inspect it) on takeoff again at a different airport after chasing a
faster T-Bird and was astonished at the invasion of silence again ...after a
prolonged "chase"! Down I came again in a field .25 mile past the airport
and landed in someones crop of .....something that was 2 feet tall. I actually
could smell burning oil this time...so I let it cool off...and took off again
and never experience another freezeup for the last 3 yearsthat I had it. But I
was more gentle with the throttle ..... not even knowing about .....EGT
I am a proponent of Cuyunna as I was always impressed with its power,(with my
illegal muffler), its reliability (would start easy and run without adjustment
in all kinds of weather). But it did seem to have more "minor" problems, like
oil leaks. But that's all I remember. I have had my rotax 447 in my Firestar
now since 92 and have had no freezeups and no oil leaks. But I must say that
somewhere along the 92- 99 line I got an EGT and have been amazed at what I
had missed before...that EGT is affected by atmospheric and temp and
should....MUST ....be watched!....which I do religiously on my Rotax. and I'm
sure most of the posters on this list LOVE their EGT too!!
________________________________________________________________________________
I am looking for recommendations on metal tape for protecting the leading edge
of the Sport Prop on my Firefly. I purchased some stainless steel tape from
Lockwood Aviation and made two failed attempts to get a satisfactory
installation. This tape is about .0045 inches thick and, for me at least, it
seemed too thick to form well to the small radius at the prop's leading edge.
It probably works just fine for general aviation size props. Does anyone know
of an available thinner stainless steel tape? I am a bit hesitant to use some
metal other than stainless as one of the benefits I am looking for is
protecting the edge from small particle strikes. Any advice will be much
appreciated. PS: In removing the gum/glue residue from my first
application of the tape I had little success with various solvents I tried but
a big gum eraser (for engineering drawings) worked well.
Chris Wayland
Firefly S/N 008 @ 80 hrs
WC7WAY(at)AOL.COM (my old e-mail address of WCW2573(at)SBEACH.NAVY.MIL has been
voided due to RETIREMENT !!!!!whoopee!!!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Boeshield T-9 Clean UP |
I know that some of the Kolb folks are using Boeshield T-9 lubricant on their
hinges etc. One of the constituents is a wax with a bit of a yellow tint. I
occasionally get some of this wax on the fabric's paint finish back of the
hinge. What sort of cleaner works well for removing this stuff? Thanks for
any advice.
Chris Wayland
Firefly S/N 008 @ 80 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Ben: Tried to send you a message direct, but it bounced. Can you
e-mail me direct, and I'll try sending a reply ?? This seems to be
happening quite a bit, with you and with others. I copied the address
shown below, and it won't go. Any ideas ?? Big Lar.
----------
> From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
> To: Kenneth E. Farrow
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: REFUELING
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 1:54 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>I am looking for recommendations on metal tape for protecting the leading
edge
>of the Sport Prop on my Firefly. I purchased some stainless steel tape from
>Lockwood Aviation and made two failed attempts to get a satisfactory
>installation. This tape is about .0045 inches thick and, for me at least, it
>seemed too thick to form well to the small radius at the prop's leading edge.
>It probably works just fine for general aviation size props. Does anyone
know
>of an available thinner stainless steel tape? I am a bit hesitant to use
some
>metal other than stainless as one of the benefits I am looking for is
>protecting the edge from small particle strikes.
I would be a bit hesitant to use the tape at all.
Had it installed on warp drive prop of a Firestar.
After a few hours it had slipped down the tip of the blade on one side.
Did not notice until I heard this unusual whirring sound while running up
the engine one day.
Apparently it had slipped down while flying and actually cut the top part
of the boom tube. Strong Stuff!
No permanent damage, but felt like the guy who sawed off the tree limb
while sitting on the wrong end.
Now we use the plastic prop "tape". Seems to work Ok on small stuff and
stays on if applied right.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Howdy Gang:
I don't use prop tape. However we did use prop tape on the
tail rotor blades of the Hughes TH-55 helicopter. The darn
blades turned up so fast (can't remember actual rpm now)
that sand and FOD would erode the leading edges (and rain).
Be flying along and the tape let go of one blade (on a two
blade system), the rudder pedals would dance and vibrate so
much you couldn't keep your feet on them.
I use nickel edges on my Warp Drive. Works great for
everything, including exhaust pipes (going thru prop). Rain
can destroy a none protected prop in a few minutes,
especially wood. I still get erosion on about 1.5 inches
inboard of nickel edge which can be repaired with a little
JB Weld and sandpaper. Warp Drive send some polyurethane
tape to place on that area for that reason, but I don't like
tape.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vladimir Knobel" <vak(at)cvtci.com.ar> |
Please dont delivery me more messages. I cant unsuscribe me, from your
list.
vak(at)cvtci.com.ar
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
De: John Hauck
Para: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Fecha: Viernes 26 de Febrero de 1999 01:49 PM
Asunto: Re: Kolb-List: Prop Tape
>
>Howdy Gang:
>
>I don't use prop tape. However we did use prop tape on the
>tail rotor blades of the Hughes TH-55 helicopter. The darn
>blades turned up so fast (can't remember actual rpm now)
>that sand and FOD would erode the leading edges (and rain).
>Be flying along and the tape let go of one blade (on a two
>blade system), the rudder pedals would dance and vibrate so
>much you couldn't keep your feet on them.
>
>I use nickel edges on my Warp Drive. Works great for
>everything, including exhaust pipes (going thru prop). Rain
>can destroy a none protected prop in a few minutes,
>especially wood. I still get erosion on about 1.5 inches
>inboard of nickel edge which can be repaired with a little
>JB Weld and sandpaper. Warp Drive send some polyurethane
>tape to place on that area for that reason, but I don't like
>tape.
>
>john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Tim, Geo38 makes an excellent point. In "the old days" Cuyuna was THE engine.
Very few knew anything about 2-stroke engines, so the poor old Cuyuna is what we
used to teeth on. Much of our knowledge came from the mistreatment or
nontreatment of that engine. My UltraStar Cuyuna with 60" 3-blade Precision prop,
pitched for cruise setting (6300rpm static), put out 275lb thrust. That same day,
with same scale we tested my buddy's TwinStar with stock single carb Rotax 503,
and got 275lb also. But my engine weighed much less & got 2.5gph fuel burn vs
3.5gph flying side by side. I had several problems with it, but I can attribute
them all to me. their biggest drawback, the inline cooling, can be compensated
for 100% by using the now standard flow-thru head on the 1st cyl, & running the
2nd cyl's main jet (assumming daul carbs) one step richer. Neither of the 2 CHT's
ever saw tempts above 280. I jetted the Mikuni carbs (which I prefer to Bings)
for a full throttle EGT of 1000 & 3/4 throttle setting of 1175. Once we figured
out what we were doing, the Cuyuna engines were dependable, powerful & effecient.
I don't know for sure, but I assume the present 2si engines are identical.
PS: The single biggest factor that gave Rotax the "more reliable" status,
is
that Rotax only sold its engines as a system, the engine/gearbox-ratio/propellor,
were jetted for beforehand by factory tech's. With Cuyuna you bought the engine,
then you bought a redrive, then you bought a prop, then you usually also bought
the farm!
---Richard Swiderski
GeoR38(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/25/99 6:31:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com writes:
>
> << perhaps my first posting about 2si engines is an exception. i see there
> are others who feel differently about the reliability of cuyunas and their
> modern replacement the 2si. i was not aware of siezure problems with 2si .
> i
> don't know, perhaps i'm wrong .......... tim
> >>
>
> tim...I had a pterodactyl with a cuyunna 420..... Another thing that was very
> popular
> was the lack ot use of the EGT meter for monitoring exhaust gas. I have a 447
> rotax now but wouldn't even consider flying without an EGT...NOW.! I would
> not be too surprised if my 2 freezeups were caused by me not being able to
> monitor the EGT on my ol DAC. But in those days...'83-90, most ulers didn't
> use any instrumentation except ASI and would be subject to freezeups out of
> sheer ignorance of their temperature.......
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
Chris
I don't know to much about the tape I have never had a prop that had it
,But today ups
delivered my IVO prop that has the S/S tape on it ,during shipping or the
way they packed it the tape on one blade got banged up with the flange
called IVO today and they will send a new pice of tape if you want to
give them a call this is their number
1-800-367 7767 they may be able to help, Hope that it will stay on
better than what
John H talked about on his chopper , if I see ANY MOVEMENT on the tape
off she comes.
Rick Libersat
>
>I am looking for recommendations on metal tape for protecting the
>leading edge
>of the Sport Prop on my Firefly. I purchased some stainless steel
>tape from
>Lockwood Aviation and made two failed attempts to get a satisfactory
>installation. This tape is about .0045 inches thick and, for me at
>least, it
>seemed too thick to form well to the small radius at the prop's
>leading edge.
>It probably works just fine for general aviation size props. Does
>anyone know
>of an available thinner stainless steel tape? I am a bit hesitant to
>use some
>metal other than stainless as one of the benefits I am looking for is
>protecting the edge from small particle strikes. Any advice will be
>much
>appreciated. PS: In removing the gum/glue residue from my first
>application of the tape I had little success with various solvents I
>tried but
>a big gum eraser (for engineering drawings) worked well.
>
>Chris Wayland
>Firefly S/N 008 @ 80 hrs
>WC7WAY(at)AOL.COM (my old e-mail address of WCW2573(at)SBEACH.NAVY.MIL
>has been
>voided due to RETIREMENT !!!!!whoopee!!!!!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cuyunnas of old |
In a message dated 2/26/99 5:47:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
swidersk(at)digital.net writes:
<< With Cuyuna you bought the engine,
then you bought a redrive, then you bought a prop, then you usually also
bought
the farm!
---Richard Swiderski >>
Well put Richard...and with the redrive...there was more to check and recheck
and bolts and nuts through the prop primarily from the redrive were not even
close to being uncommon. The other problem to be concerned about after making
a scared landing when hearing your engine run away as you dropped out of the
sky ....was the belt tightness....I found new places on my face for my lofty
eyebrows to reside when my engine went faster and I went slower one time and
couldn't wait to touch down to mother green. Only problem was that the belts
(there were 3 I think) were too loose and would slip as I throttled for more
horsepower and father friction began to lose the battle to move my prop.Of
course that caused more heat to dissipate at the redrive pulleys and belts
enabling some of your worst nightmares to compete with the world of reality if
one was not tuned or sensitive to such aerial meanderings and responded within
a reasonable time frame ...like a second or two........GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
mr. Swiderski, i loved my ultrastar. the plane was very easy to fly. the
only drawback to an ultrastar is upon landing ,as i found out early in my
ultralight flying career. you can't land an ultrastar hard. if you do you
don't just bend the landing gear you bend the entire frame/cage. when you own
an ultrastar you better know how to weld or know someone that does. as for
cuyunas... well, i guess people will be comparing cuyunas and rotax's and every
other brand of engine just like people compare chevys and fords and toyotas,
etc.. one point, i don't know if it is better to have the air flow across an
engine head the way a cuyuna does ( front to back ) or the way a rotax does (
side to side ). rotax's argument is " you have cool air blowing across both
cylinders", cuyuna's argument is " you have a greater volumn of air flow moving
across the head because of less restriction". which one is correct ? i don't
know. anyway, i now have a firestar with a rotax 377 that i can't crow
enough about. that 377 runs smooth and get great fuel consumption. as far as
i'm concerned the 377 is one of rotax's finer engines. another point, in both
my cuyuna and rotax i used amsoil at 100 to 1 and 87 octane gas. let me tell
you, you get better performance at 100 to 1 than at 50 to 1, and lower head
temps.... oops! hear comes the boss ! gotta go ..................... tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
chris, i've never had luck with prop tape. could never get it to stay
stuck to the prop. i don't know, maybe it was me, maybe i don't know what i'm
doing. i get the impression that tape applied at the factory stays on. maybe
they use magic . what do i know ? .................. tim do not
archive.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce" <bwf(at)wavetech.net> |
To all
What are the most reliable Transceivers and GPS hand held receivers.
Where do you get the best price.
Thanks for your input
Bruce
bwf(at)wavetech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ToddThom(at)aol.com |
In a recent March Ultralight flying magazine there was an article about Rotax
engine tuning. The author states that the EGT should be 950 degrees and that
we should tune for this.
My understanding is 1150 is optimal.
What's your opinion?
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine tuning |
ToddThom(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a recent March Ultralight flying magazine there was an article about Rotax
> engine tuning. The author states that the EGT should be 950 degrees and that
> we should tune for this.
>
> My understanding is 1150 is optimal.
>
> What's your opinion?
Hi Gang:
Don't ever take everything you read in UL Flying Mag as
gospel. Most of the folks that write for them are just like
you and me, enthusiast. The EGT temps are a good indication
of this.
john h (my own personal opinion)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
If you are referring to the March article by Bob Zerkle, John Hauck's
advice is pretty good. At the end of the article, in the sidebar, the
author also says that "You can expect the mixture to lean as the engine is
loaded, and to richen as the engine is unloaded. EGT's will increase with
engine load increases such as climbouts and static runs, and decrease when
the engine is unloaded in cruise and descents."
He has it backwards. As load increases, rpm's decrease while fuel flow
remains constant, therefore air flow decreases, therefore the mixture richens.
As load decreases at a constant throttle setting, rpm's rise while fuel
flow remains constant. This increases airflow, and the engine leans out.
Check it out: throttle back until you are at minimum rpm for level flight
cruise. Now lower the nose and let the airspeed build, don't touch the
throttle. A two stroke in that case will push the EGT gauge way on up
there, but CHT will fall.
The CHT's will increase when load is increased, and decrease when load
is
reduced, maybe that was what the author meant to say?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>In a recent March Ultralight flying magazine there was an article about Rotax
>engine tuning. The author states that the EGT should be 950 degrees and that
>we should tune for this.
>
>My understanding is 1150 is optimal.
>
>What's your opinion?
>
>thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Info for newbies/wannabies |
In cleaning out old mags, I ran across a coupla articles maybe of
interest to both newbies and wannabies in the Aug. '88 issue of Flight
Training. I'm too lazy to copy them by hand to put on the list, but can
Xerox the 9 pp and send via FailMail. I'll need your FailMail address,
though.
They are--Ultralights: The World of Low and Slow
Ultralight Flying Qualities
Grey (newbie, at times) Baron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 ToddThom(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In my opinion based on marine and aviation experience, Icom is the best in
> handhelds but there are some new very compact models recently introduced. For
> GPS try GPS4fun.com for selection and price. They carry both aviation and
> terrestrial models.
>
> To save time try pricewatch.com and you can search for the lowest price on a
> myriad of items.
Some caution on using companies referred to by Pricewatch.com. They
advertise the lowest price they can and then as you're about to say
thank you, bye, some will quickly tell you how much they stick you for
shipping and handling. Just be ready for them -- ready to say
just a minute, or forget it.
Walmart of all places has good prices on the non-aviation brand GPS's.
For the full line, check out www.thegpsstore.com. Their prices look
pretty good too.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
To all,
I will take a chance and see if there is anyone on the list living anywhere
near me (Dallas to Austin, Tx) that has a "cargo box trailer" they want to
sell. It must be large enough to contain a MKIII with 3 bld prop. I would
prefer a gooseneck, but it could be any type hitch.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Bending Bow Tips |
To all,
OK... This may sound stupid, but I used a tree trunk and hooked one end of
the tube in the crook of a limb. I did it carefully always "pulling" as
well as bending to help keep it from kinking. Worked for me and I did it
all by myself. Anyone want to borrow my "tree jig". The point is... you
can use most anything that is handy and works for you.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: MKIII trailer. |
Cliff
I got a friend up in the AUSTIN area that may be able to help you out
he is involved with a U L flying club .Don't forget that you are more
than welcome to use my trailer
this is Duncan Charlton E-mail charlton(at)flash.net
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>To all,
>
>I will take a chance and see if there is anyone on the list living
>anywhere
>near me (Dallas to Austin, Tx) that has a "cargo box trailer" they
>want to
>sell. It must be large enough to contain a MKIII with 3 bld prop. I
>would
>prefer a gooseneck, but it could be any type hitch.
>
>Later,
>
>
>--
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MKIII trailer. |
>
>Cliff
>I got a friend up in the AUSTIN area that may be able to help you out
>he is involved with a U L flying club .Don't forget that you are more
>than welcome to use my trailer
Thanks Rick, George said the same thing. The problem with that is that I
will need a trailer permanently. I need to get my own, but thanks for the
offer.
I will use it to move our household stuff in and eventually keep my plane
in the trailer at home like you and George do. Hangers in the Austin area
are really bringing a premium since Austin Mueller Airport will be closing
soon driving all of general aviation further out in the country makaing
demand greater than the supply.
I can't wait to see your new "912 Kolb" with all of the goodies you got
with it.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
rpike is right about increasing engine load causing EGTs to decrease. I was
really stuck on how to cut my 447's EGTs. I tried larger jet, dropping the
needle clip etc with not much luck. The EGT's were lower but the mix was so
rich she didn't want to run smoothly. Finally Mike Highsmith suggested
increasing the pitch and guided me through the process (Ivo prop). I wasn't
sure of the logic but it worked, even with all mixture adjustments back to
standard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
MitchMnD(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> rpike is right about increasing engine load causing EGTs to decrease. I was
> really stuck on how to cut my 447's EGTs. I tried larger jet, dropping the
Hi Duane and Gang:
I think I posted something similar to this a while back, but
will try and do a short one now.
Rotax engines (2 stroke) are set up at the factory to
operate in the "green" at 32F to 90F and airstrips 0 to 1500
feet above sea level. In other words, they don't need to be
recalibrated to operate in this relatively wide operational
area. (my numbers my be off a tad, CRS)
"Joe Blow" gets a new UL kit which includes engine, redrive,
and prop. First flight EGTs are either too low or too
high. What does he do? Changes everything but the prop
pitch, even though the factory has already got the engine
set up to operate correctly right out of the box. This has
been a problem the 15+ years I have been playing with 2
stroke ULs.
I didn't read about the correlation of prop/engine load and
EGT in a book or magazine. It was something I discovered
early on experimenting and flying this little rascals. Pull
the nose up, rpms fall off as does EGT. Drop the nose, rpms
build, and So does EGT.
I have found if I prop a 2 stroke to turn the "red line" at
WOT (wide open throttle) straight and level flight, I will
be right in the middle of the ball park. I will get a
combination of best climb/cruise and my EGT will be right
where it belongs. I don't need to change spark plug heat
range, carb jetting, fuel needles, or anything else. This
approach has worked for me over and over again. You may try
this procedure that has worked for me or you can do like I
did many years ago (15 years in UL time is a long time ago)
and beat your head up against a brick wall till the EGT gets
in the "green."
Sometimes, between winter and summer flying, it may be
necessary to raise or lower the fuel needle a notch to
enrichen or lean out midrange/cruise rpm. Other than that,
unless you live and fly off Pike's Peak (not Richard), leave
the darn carbs and spark plugs alone.
Not the gospel, but what has worked for me.
john h (to windy to fly at hauck's holler, alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Skaggs" <pskaggs(at)xprt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MKIII trailer. |
From: Bob Butler (rbutler215(at)aol.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999
5th Wheel Ultralight trailer. 36 foot fully self contained 5th wheel set up
to carry a Phantom/Hurricane type ultralight. Front bedroom, Bath, and
Kitchen aera accessable with plane in trailer. $10,000 Bob at 619-462-2739
or 760-394 4551
Paul Skaggs
Portland, Oregon
pskaggs(at)xprt.net
ICQ: 217887254
-----Original Message-----
From: rick106(at)juno.com <rick106(at)juno.com>
Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MKIII trailer.
>
>Cliff
>I got a friend up in the AUSTIN area that may be able to help you out
>he is involved with a U L flying club .Don't forget that you are more
>than welcome to use my trailer
>this is Duncan Charlton E-mail charlton(at)flash.net
>
>Rick Libersat
>
> writes:
>>
>>
>>To all,
>>
>>I will take a chance and see if there is anyone on the list living
>>anywhere
>>near me (Dallas to Austin, Tx) that has a "cargo box trailer" they
>>want to
>>sell. It must be large enough to contain a MKIII with 3 bld prop. I
>>would
>>prefer a gooseneck, but it could be any type hitch.
>>
>>Later,
>>
>>
>>--
>>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
>> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net> |
Fellow Kolbers,
A friend of mine is looking to buy a BRS for his Challenger (I know "bad
word") and is interested in getting a dealer ship. He feels that if he
can place an order for four or more chutes then BRS will give him the
dealership. He is willing to sell the first order of chutes at his cost.
So far we have two chutes spoken for (1 for me and 1 for him). If anyone
is interested in purchasing a chute at dealers cost let me know and I'll
get you his phone number for more info.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
might be interested, what would cost be.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
612-474-3540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keeboman2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MKIII trailer. |
Yo Cliff,
I Live in Dallas, I will keep my ears open............................. Kolb
lives strong in Dallas.
Keebo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keeboman2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bending Bow Tips |
Cliff and Carol,
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
<< What are the most reliable Transceivers and GPS hand held receivers.
Where do you get the best price. >>
I'm using an inexpensive ($99) Magellen 'Pioneer', purchased at K-Mart. It
doesn't have many bells or whistles, but it directs me to and from wherever I
want to go. Stores up to 100 waypoints.
BV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
Several Rotax engine owners have asked about the R & D exhaust system -
before purchasing one it is suggested you view the archives at
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/advisory.htm
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
I agree John - I played the Jet vs. altitude vs. temp game too with the
main jet for years. I live in Tulsa (800') and rarely change main jets. EGT's
can vary on any given day due to many factors. Whats important is too monitor
for SUDDEN @ EXTREME changes from what your little bird does normally.
Usually, an inpending engine problem in this categorie occurs rapidly. Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
To those considering a 2Si engine: It is not the same as a Cuyuna. It is being
manufactured by a different company and has had design changes. I know two different
people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story. My
suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few years
and a
lot of satisfied customers behind them.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
SE Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> To those considering a 2Si engine: It is not the same as a Cuyuna. It
is being
> manufactured by a different company and has had design changes. I know two
different
> people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story.
My
> suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few
years and a
> lot of satisfied customers behind them.
> John Jung
> Firestar II N6163J
> SE Wisconsin
>
>
>
The 2si engine manufacturer is a merger between Cayuna and AMW. If you are
considering their engine it is suggested you check out the 2si alert
archives at
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/advisory.htm
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> To those considering a 2Si engine: It is not the same as a Cuyuna. It
is being
> manufactured by a different company and has had design changes. I know two
different
> people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story.
My
> suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few
years and a
> lot of satisfied customers behind them.
> John Jung
> Firestar II N6163J
> SE Wisconsin
>
>
>
The 2si engine manufacturer is a merger between Cayuna and AMW. If you are
considering their engine it is suggested you check out the 2si alert
archives at
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/advisory.htm
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
HI
How do I check & adjust gearbox ,preload of washers
(type a& b gearboxes) on rotax 503 TIA
Duane Z fs2 95 hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
John,
In fairness to all, when did these people experience the problems and were
the exact vintage (how old or new) were the engines. (not as used but as
did they have they sitting around 2-years before they used them or do this
tend to indicate recent production). There is no fair way a vendor can
rebuke your statement nor can the reader make a true assessment with out
more detail.
Jerry Bidle
>
> To those considering a 2Si engine: It is not the same as a Cuyuna. It
is being
>manufactured by a different company and has had design changes. I know two
different
>people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story. My
>suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few
years and a
>lot of satisfied customers behind them.
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>SE Wisconsin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Cuyuna Engines (The Originals) |
Hi Gang:
Cut my ultralighting teeth on a Cuyuna UL II02. 1984, was a
good year, and I had a good engine. This sucker had CDI ign
and a Mikuni Carb. I never had any problem with this engine
except primary case leakage. I could have prevented this,
maybe, but the engine mount attached to the bottom of the
engine and it was impossible to torque primary case bolts
without dropping the engine from the mount first. Phooey!
Too much work. So I'd fly til the darn thing started
leaking and then I would have to pull the engine and go thru
it to fix the problem.
Brings up another problem with the engine: base cylinder
gasket leakage. When Cuyuna designed the UL II02 they
lightened it up considerably over the old 430. In fact they
lightened it up so much in the area of the mating surfaces
of cyl and case that it didn't take long for the gasket to
fail at the PTO end of the case.
Other than that, the eng performed well. Except my ole
flying buddy Ed Davis's Ultrastar and Cuyuna UL II02. Was
flying it with 7 or 8 hours on the engine when it started to
loose power. I thought the throttle had slipped so I added
power which helped for a second before the engine seized.
Nope, didn't lean out. The crankshaft bearing on the PTO
end seized and came apart after it welded itself on the
crankshaft. Come to find out Cuyuna experimented with some
cheap 3d world bearings which had very short service life.
Other than these related problems it was a good engine for
me.
I do not know a thing about the new "Cuyuna." Only what I
read in the papers.
john h (hauck's holler, alabama, getting ready to fly to
Shady Bend, Florida, on the Suwanee River this weekend.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rotax 447 Hard starting |
My third Kolb/Rotax has always been harder to pull start than the other two (
both others were dcdi 503's ). After almost being stranded at other airports
and one heck of a lot starter rope tugging I have arrived at the following
conclusions:
1 The timing on my "fresh from Gunsgirken" 447 engine was about
4 degrees
late. Check the timing.
2 I used the factory-supplied pull rope and because it had to be
routed
through the Kolb pulley and ring it was too short. A good tug moved the engine
through two or three revs and the rope bottomed out. When I replaced the
original rope with one that was 12 or 18" longer the engine turned more revs
and turned them faster and the engine starting more frequently. I suspect that
this has something to do with the fact that the carb feeds not into the
combustion chamber (like a 4 cycle) but into the crankcase, the channels
leading to the inlet ports and then into the combustion chamber. More revs
from a longer pull rope makes the start action more like the normal breathing
during engine running.
3 Primmer pumps are great but they require careful usage. Just giving
the
little handle a couple of fast strokes may not do what the pilot has in mind.
I first check to make sure that the carb bowl is full of fuel using the
squeeze bulb. This helps get most of the air out of the fuel and primmer
lines. If the line is full of air bubbles you will be priming with air and the
carb bowl will be dry which will make it really hard to start. My pump handle
must be pulled out slowly and held out until the pump has a full volume of
fuel in the pump chamber and the pressure in the primmer circuit has
equalized. I also watch for bubbles in the lines leading to and from the pump
and the inlet to the carburetor. If the line is full of air bubbles you will
be priming with air. One firm stroke on the pump will then deliver one full
shot of fuel.
It works for me.
Duane Mitchell, Tallahassee FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> HI
> How do I check & adjust gearbox ,preload of washers
> (type a& b gearboxes) on rotax 503 TIA
> Duane Z fs2 95 hr
>
>
The proper load on the gear box spring washers is 1750 lbs. To do this you
require a press a support for the gear box and an upside down "U" tool.
The Upside down "U" is positioned onto the top of the gear you apply 1750
lbs of pressure, at this pressure setting gear springs should just start to
compress.
An industry secret is that if you compress you washers fully, turn your
"keeper retainer" upside down and adjust with spacers up or down until you
can just slide your keeper into the groove on the output shaft. This has
proven to give you the proper preload on. Once this is obtained you reverse
you "keeper retainer" and insert your keepers and release the pressure on
your upside down "U" clamp.
The spring washers go in in groups of two - that is two together facing up -
then two together facing down, then another two up with another two down,
and finally the last group again two up and two down.
If you are looking for wear you will find it on the outside edges fo the
spring washers and in the center of the spring washers.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Jerry,
I don't have to be fair. I'm just giving my opinion. If anyone is interested
in knowing more about 2Si problems, the information should be in the archives.
I
have no intention of rewriting the story every time the question comes up.
John Jung
Jerry Bidle wrote:
>
> John,
>
> In fairness to all, when did these people experience the problems and were
> the exact vintage (how old or new) were the engines. (not as used but as
> did they have they sitting around 2-years before they used them or do this
> tend to indicate recent production). There is no fair way a vendor can
> rebuke your statement nor can the reader make a true assessment with out
> more detail.
>
> Jerry Bidle
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/1/99 9:11:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrjung(at)execpc.com
writes:
<< To those considering a 2Si engine: It is not the same as a Cuyuna. It
is being
manufactured by a different company and has had design changes. I know two
different
people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story. My
suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few
years and a
lot of satisfied customers behind them.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
SE Wisc >>
I flew one for 165 hours in Mark III and other than it had a highly tuned pipe
that make it tough to hold cruise point steady, it was a very steady
performer,easy to start, high HP to weight. If I was building another UL type
that required 70 hp, I would consider another one.
Bernie Kerr, Building RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | JPI true colors? |
I read JP Instruments statement on it's action against Matronics, today.
Besides the standard legal rhetoric and threats for damage, I noticed
two items:
(1) No one signed the statement
(2) All comments were to be directed to Consumer Affairs
Since I was very interested in their Slim Line instruments, prior to
their action against Matronics, and wanted to provide JPI with every
opportunity to reconsider there actions, I called their office this
morning. I was going to send out another letter, but since they have not
responded to my original letter or email (routed through their Tech
Services) or FAX, I decided to call. I reached their automated attendant
and selected Sales. The young lady I reached, put me on hold for about a
minute and then identified herself.
I asked if JP Instruments' upper management would be at Sun & Fun to
which she responded - May Be. I then asked her for the name of JPI's
CEO/Owner. She finally said John, when asked for his last name she said
Smith. When I asked Really? She said she could not help me.
Whether or John Smith is the CEO's real name or not, the inability of
JPI's top management to even sign their statement about the Matronics
suit says much about the company's management. In addition, their
statement refers all comments to their Consumer Affairs Office. Based on
JPI's statement, about the large number of calls received, they
understand (or should) that potential consumers will be going elsewhere
if they continue action against Matronics.
Based on my letters/Faxes/telephone call to JPI, I am convinced that
they are listening to the lawyers rather than the customers. I have
asked Matt D. to let us know how we can help with a legal defense fund
and will wait for his response.
I also agree (will Von & others) that we should keep this issue in front
of consumers, via letters to the editors bulletin boards, EAA chapters,
FBOs, etc to ensure they hear both sides of the issue.
I know this is becoming matter of principle to many, and it should be
IMHO, but we should also try and keep our comments as dignified as
possible. We need to make sure that JPI understands the implications of
their continued action against Matronics.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> I flew one for 165 hours in Mark III and other than it had a highly tuned pipe
> that make it tough to hold cruise point steady, it was a very steady
> performer,easy to start, high HP to weight. If I was building another UL type
> that required 70 hp, I would consider another one.
>
> Bernie Kerr, Building RV6A
Bernie: You aren't talking about a Cuyuna are you? 70 hp,
MK III????
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
>people that have tried them on Kolbs. The results make up a horror story. My
>suggestion is to not even consider the engine until the company has a few
years and a
>lot of satisfied customers behind them.
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>SE Wisconsin
>
Not that I disagree with you but how can they get these customers if nobody
buys their engines ;]? A random thought is that people try to treat these
engines like a Rotax. Look similar but they are different. Same as the
problems with the Hirth. Once the people got used to the idea of it wasn't a
Rotax and treated them like the company recomended there was no problem.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cuyuna Engines (The Originals) |
Cuyuna Lovers,
John's satement below rang a couple of bells: 1) In my 300+ hrs of Cuyuna
flying, I never had case leakage- probably because I retorqued the case after
20hrs & threw away the paper gasket which I replaced with one made out of thin
Aluminum sheeting used in type setting (cuts with Xacto knife). 2) I also know
1st hand of a fellow who had a cheap bearing failure-- So if you have an early
ULII, it might be worth checking your bearings.
John Hauck wrote:
Hi Gang:
> Cut my ultralighting teeth on a Cuyuna UL II02. 1984, was a
> good year, and I had a good engine. This sucker had CDI ign
> and a Mikuni Carb. I never had any problem with this engine
> except primary case leakage. ...Brings up another problem with the engine:
> base cylinder gasket leakage. .... it didn't take long for the gasket to
> fail at the PTO end of the case.
>
> Other than that, the eng performed well. Except... The crankshaft bearing on
> the PTO
> end seized and came apart after it welded itself on the
> crankshaft. Come to find out Cuyuna experimented with some
> cheap 3d world bearings which had very short service life.
>
> john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
John and ALL
Need some help on how do you get the oil down to the oil pump after one
drains ALL the oil out ,changes filters. Also the oil cooler is dry as
well as all lines do you think that one can blow in the vent on the oil
tank , enough to push the oil to the oil cooler??
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hi Gang:
>
>Cut my ultralighting teeth on a Cuyuna UL II02. 1984, was a
>good year, and I had a good engine. This sucker had CDI ign
>and a Mikuni Carb. I never had any problem with this engine
>except primary case leakage. I could have prevented this,
>maybe, but the engine mount attached to the bottom of the
>engine and it was impossible to torque primary case bolts
>without dropping the engine from the mount first. Phooey!
>Too much work. So I'd fly til the darn thing started
>leaking and then I would have to pull the engine and go thru
>it to fix the problem.
>
>Brings up another problem with the engine: base cylinder
>gasket leakage. When Cuyuna designed the UL II02 they
>lightened it up considerably over the old 430. In fact they
>lightened it up so much in the area of the mating surfaces
>of cyl and case that it didn't take long for the gasket to
>fail at the PTO end of the case.
>
>Other than that, the eng performed well. Except my ole
>flying buddy Ed Davis's Ultrastar and Cuyuna UL II02. Was
>flying it with 7 or 8 hours on the engine when it started to
>loose power. I thought the throttle had slipped so I added
>power which helped for a second before the engine seized.
>Nope, didn't lean out. The crankshaft bearing on the PTO
>end seized and came apart after it welded itself on the
>crankshaft. Come to find out Cuyuna experimented with some
>cheap 3d world bearings which had very short service life.
>
>Other than these related problems it was a good engine for
>me.
>
>I do not know a thing about the new "Cuyuna." Only what I
>read in the papers.
>
>john h (hauck's holler, alabama, getting ready to fly to
>Shady Bend, Florida, on the Suwanee River this weekend.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
>
>
> John and ALL
>
> Need some help on how do you get the oil down to the oil pump after one
> drains ALL the oil out ,changes filters. Also the oil cooler is dry as
> well as all lines do you think that one can blow in the vent on the oil
> tank , enough to push the oil to the oil cooler??
>
Reinstall your filter, and oil, then with the ignition turned off crank the
engine over, watch you oil pressure gauge, after about 10 seconds you should
have pressure and can start the engine.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Loveman David wrote:
>
> > Need some help on how do you get the oil down to the oil pump after one
> > drains ALL the oil out ,changes filters. Also the oil cooler is dry as
> > well as all lines do you think that one can blow in the vent on the oil
> > tank , enough to push the oil to the oil cooler??
> >
> Reinstall your filter, and oil, then with the ignition turned off crank the
> engine over, watch you oil pressure gauge, after about 10 seconds you should
> have pressure and can start the engine.
>
> Dave Loveman
>
Rick, Dave, and Gang:
Rick you got the right idea. Use a pair of vise grips and
close off the return line to the oil tank. Then with the
oil tank cap on tight, blow air into the vent line. NOW
wait a minute until I get the manual and I will tell you
what psi not to exceed. How about I just transcribe what
the shop manual tells me to do:
Page 41, para 6.16.2 Venting of lubrication system:
If the oil pressure does not rise within 10 sec after engine
start, the the engine must be stopped and the oil supply
line to the oil pump to be vented as follows: First block
oil return line by clamp and then connect compressed air
(max 46 psi) to venting line. Oil will be pushed from the
tank to the oil pump within 30 sec. Remove clamp from oil
return line and reconnect vent line.
Rick, I do not recommend trying to crank a dry engine for 10
sec. Do not think you will have oil pressure by then. I
recommend, this is how I do it, go ahead and use compressed
air to fill line, cooler, pump, and filter. At 40 to 46 psi
it should be more than enough time to get the job done.
Then feel comfortable to crank engine looking for oil
pressure to rise within 10 sec (just to make sure you vented
oil system correctly the first time.
Dave, the way I interpret the manual is after the engine has
been run with successful oil pressure, on start up if oil
pressure rise is not observed to use the venting procedure
described.
* Most likely lube the entire engine in 30 sec at 46 psi air
pressure.
john h (trying to help out in hauck's holler, alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MKIII trailer. |
Cliff,
Keep in mind that a trailer of that size is often built only for the
purpose of carrying only a lite airplane and may have a problem handling
the weight of house hold goods.
You may ruin you little airplanes house before it gets moved in.
Jerry
>
>>
>>Cliff
>>I got a friend up in the AUSTIN area that may be able to help you out
>>he is involved with a U L flying club .Don't forget that you are more
>>than welcome to use my trailer
>
>Thanks Rick, George said the same thing. The problem with that is that I
>will need a trailer permanently. I need to get my own, but thanks for the
>offer.
>
>I will use it to move our household stuff in and eventually keep my plane
>in the trailer at home like you and George do. Hangers in the Austin area
>are really bringing a premium since Austin Mueller Airport will be closing
>soon driving all of general aviation further out in the country makaing
>demand greater than the supply.
>
>I can't wait to see your new "912 Kolb" with all of the goodies you got
>with it.
>
>Later,
>
>
>--
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Christensen" <SPECTRUMINTERNATIONAL(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK111 Dual stic |
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard C Webb <RICKWW(at)prodigy.net>
>Has anyone done a dual stic conv.on MK111,how about dual throttles?Much
>trouble?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Webb
> Milford,De
======================================================
Hey Rick:
I designed and installed dual control sticks in my MK III and really like
the result. I did not like the left hand "cross-over" required to use the
center mounted throttle while the right hand is on the control stick. This
was the reason for the modification. A simpler alternative is to move the
throttle from the center to the left side of the left seat and leave the
single stick factory configuration unchanged.
Ron Christensen
Mk III 1/2
N313DR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
John makes a good point, if you are starting a dry engine. On an engine that
has been run before and you are changing the oil and filter I have found
that this system works. It also goes by the book in that Rotax indicates you
can turn the engine over withouth ignition for 10 seconds. Even when you
drain your filter, tank and lines there is still some oil in the engine, and
oil pump.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ToddThom(at)aol.com |
SO to continue this conversation:
What I am hearing is that if on the ground doing a static runup and my EGT's
are 1050 this is the most prop loading I can expect. Therefore at any other
time - like taking off or cruising - I can expect the prop to unload (over a
static run up) and he temps to rise. The question now is "How much will the
temps rise?" Should I change the jetting to hold 1150 during the static run
up as a LEAF technician "strongly" suggested?
FYI, My static runnup rpm is 6000, which is perfectly equal with the torque
curve. I also expect to have about 100-150 rpm increase when I change out the
breakin fuel.
Engine: 582, 3/1 C box in a MArk III
Thanks guys and forgive me for beating this subject but I need to learn and
there is a lot of conflicting info circulating.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Todd,
1150 degrees on static may be O.K. for some other plane, but on a Kolb, I
would stay with the 1050 (no more than 1100). Then adjust if necessary after you
learn how it acts in the air.
John Jung
ToddThom(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> SO to continue this conversation:
>
> What I am hearing is that if on the ground doing a static runup and my EGT's
> are 1050 this is the most prop loading I can expect. Therefore at any other
> time - like taking off or cruising - I can expect the prop to unload (over a
> static run up) and he temps to rise. The question now is "How much will the
> temps rise?" Should I change the jetting to hold 1150 during the static run
> up as a LEAF technician "strongly" suggested?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/2/99 9:28:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, ToddThom(at)aol.com
writes:
<< FYI, My static runnup rpm is 6000, which is perfectly equal with the torque
curve. >>
I just finished breaking in my 582 and the book calls for a maximum static
rpm of 6200.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
ToddThom(at)aol.com wrote:
temps rise?" Should I change the jetting to hold 1150
during the static run
> up as a LEAF technician "strongly" suggested?
>
> FYI, My static runnup rpm is 6000, which is perfectly equal with the torque
> curve. I also expect to have about 100-150 rpm increase when I change out the
> breakin fuel.
>
> Engine: 582, 3/1 C box in a MArk III
>
Morning Todd and Gang:
I posted a msg just the other day reference engine prop
setups. Basically, Rotax 2 stroke engines are set up at the
factory to operate at 0 to 1500 feet and 32 to 90 deg F. If
the prop is pitched correctly the EGT will be in the green.
No need to chase main jets, needle jets and needles,
sparkplug heat ranges, etc.
I personally prop to turn the red line rpm at WOT straight
and level flight. If I do this I have the best of climb and
of cruise. EGT is in the green. The most I will have to do
is change the fuel needle up or down a notch to bring EGT in
green during cruise power (for me 5800 rpm). For some in
real cold climates, may have to go up a size on main jet.
I highly recommend not chasing carb adjs and sparkplugs and
timing adjs until the aircraft is properly propped. If it
is not properly propped it will be very difficult to get the
engine to perform as designed.
Again fellows, my own personal opinion, but something that
works for me everytime.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
If I had an EGT of 1050 at static @ 6000 rpm, I would go fly, and see what
happens. You oughta be in the ballpark.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) using a 532 w/B box 2.58:1 & 66" 2 blade IVO
>
>What I am hearing is that if on the ground doing a static runup and my EGT's
>are 1050 this is the most prop loading I can expect.
>
>FYI, My static runnup rpm is 6000, which is perfectly equal with the torque
>curve. I also expect to have about 100-150 rpm increase when I change out the
>breakin fuel.
>
> Engine: 582, 3/1 C box in a MArk III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
If are breaking in a Rotax engine or would like to get the best performance
out of it might I suggesting visiting.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/techtips1.htm
http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/gauge.html
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Hey Tod,
John's method sounds good to me too. But if you don't have an adjustable
prop, you're still in a bind, (unless you trim your prop or have several props
to
choose from.) As he implied, chasing those EGT tempts can lead to trouble if you
don't understand the principles, or to baldness if you do grasp them, but Murphy
is hanging around. Let me offrer a clarification: When/if you jet your carb(s),
you have 3 stages to deal with. Each one builds upon the one before it (with the
exception of the idle stage) and contributes to the stages that follow. 1st
stage: establish idle mixture (using fuel jets &/or air jets (depending on carb),
to maintaing easy starting & good idling. At this stage neither the mid-range
(needle) or the power-range (main jets) are contributing. Then you go to say,
4.5K rpm, adjust needle for midrange temp of about 1150. This will establish your
slow/middle cruise tempt, where you have moderate load on engine. Then go to full
throttle. This stage is maximum load & wear on engine. Here the fuel not only
feeds engine, but also adds extra lubrication and extra cooling. That's why most
people recommend jetting this stage very rich which translates to about 1000
degrees +/- 50. If you change your idle and/or mid-range, you're taking away from
or adding to this stage. When this is accomplished, go back to mid-range & slowly
increase throttle to 7/8ths position. On some carbs/engines, this is the highest
EGT reading. If its over 1200, changing either the needle or mains will
compensate. The main jets start contributing somewhere around 3/4 throttle. This
is basically what happens when you jet an enjgine & its often not as easy as it
sounds. As John said, all this is already worked out by the factory (unless
someone messed with it.) So the easiest way to manage the tempts is to manage
the
engine load. As it is not practical to do this by changing the attitude of the
plane, changing the prop setting is the way to go... more pitch = more load = more
fuel sucked = lower EGT. I hope this "in a nutshell" personal theory of mine
helps. ---Richard S
ToddThom(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> SO to continue this conversation:
>
> What I am hearing is that if on the ground doing a static runup and my EGT's
> are 1050 this is the most prop loading I can expect. Therefore at any other
> time - like taking off or cruising - I can expect the prop to unload (over a
> static run up) and he temps to rise. The question now is "How much will the
> temps rise?" Should I change the jetting to hold 1150 during the static run
> up as a LEAF technician "strongly" suggested?
>
> FYI, My static runnup rpm is 6000, which is perfectly equal with the torque
> curve. I also expect to have about 100-150 rpm increase when I change out the
> breakin fuel.
>
> Engine: 582, 3/1 C box in a MArk III
>
> Thanks guys and forgive me for beating this subject but I need to learn and
> there is a lot of conflicting info circulating.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
With the proper prop load, instruments that are calibrated correctly, with a
standard exhaust system, flying from 1,000 to 3,000 feet on an average day
of between 15 to 70 degrees F in temp - the standard jetting supplied by
Rotax will work just fine.
In sustained higher elevations and or higher humidity jetting changes MAY
be required.
Use your gauges as just estimates and take the reading from the spark plugs.
You want a nice tan colour. Black is rich, grey is lean.
As John has indicated PROPER PROP LOAD is essential, allow the engine to
over rev and you will run lean, under rev and the engine will loose power in
the middle of climb out.
For the engine to work you need to start from what Rotax supplies STOCK,
apply the proper load, cooling, fuel, oil and evaluate the spark plugs. A
gauge reading 1,000 degrees and a spark plug with a nice tan colour
indicates a gauge that is reading low.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
Maybe everyone knows this, maybe not, so a reminder...
- egt depends on proper probe distances from cylinder sleeve (4")
and so the values quoted are only meaningful for this placement.
- egt is a reference and should be verified by checking plug color
as the real indicator of proper fuel/air mixture.
I know this well because I used a single probe at the Y for the first
two years. I was in no-man's land and made up for it by fussing with
my mixture like a nervous old woman. That was sure a waste of time
and energy.
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
John and others,
If the load on the engine keeps the EGT's down, then why wouldn't a
cruise RPM of about 5100 be better than 5800 if the prop is pitched such
that it would cruise at 60mph for both RPM's? I would think the lower
RPM's would give better economy and less wear on the engine. I think your
answer, John, will be the engine doesn't get "on the pipe" for maximum
power output, right?
I fly in a cold climate (20 deg) and I never change the jetting. The Bing
carb charts will show a slightly leaner condition in colder temps, but
not enough to warrant changing sizes. I may fly at a higher altitude that
day which would offset the lean condition.
I have a muffler that was drilled in the "Y" using a single EGT sensor
(I know better, guys). The hole that I drilled years ago is not the
proper distance from the piston face as is should be. Because of this,
normal EGT's are 1175 during the summer and 1250 in the winter. I do not
get alarmed even if it approaches 1300 occasionally.
What I don't understand is during climbout and initial cruise, the EGT's
will consistently read 1275-1300, then after about a half hour of flight
(at cruise setting and the same altitude, 35 deg OAT) they will drop to
1250, which is normal for me.
We have beat the EGT thread to death, but am I missing something?
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
>The most I will have to do is change the fuel needle up or down a notch
to bring >EGT in green during cruise power (for me 5800 rpm). For some
in
>real cold climates, may have to go up a size on main jet.
>john h
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
In designing the engine Rotax has put in a fuel "economy range" that is
between 5200 and 5800 rpm. this is your leanest fuel burn.
The engine, exhaust, carb are set up so that when the proper load e.g. 6500
rpm is put on the engine then the "metering" of the fuel is correct. If you
allow the engine to over rev then the metering system can not supply enough
fuel and leans out.
If the engine is not allowed to rev then the metering system will "overload"
the engine with fuel and cause it to slowly loose power.
Your probe position is also important because you must meter from the end of
the "blue flame" - like in a propane torch.
When backing down on power you can get into an area where the fuel burn is
hotter because the engine is not under load - thus a lean mixture is
created.
A two stroke engine uses gasoline to cool the engine that is one reason it
uses more than a 4 stroke.
This is a combination of prop load, exhaust back pressure, fuel intake,
timing etc.
But once again the real "thermometor" of your engine is your plugs.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> Maybe everyone knows this, maybe not, so a reminder...
> - egt depends on proper probe distances from cylinder sleeve (4")
> and so the values quoted are only meaningful for this placement.
>
> - egt is a reference and should be verified by checking plug color
> as the real indicator of proper fuel/air mixture.
>
> I know this well because I used a single probe at the Y for the first
> two years. I was in no-man's land and made up for it by fussing with
> my mixture like a nervous old woman. That was sure a waste of time
> and energy.
>
> Ben Ransom
> http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On a Rotax 377/447/503/582 the probe distance is 100 mm from the face of the
piston - which is approximatley 4 inches. But other Rotax engines are
different, it depends on the engine exhaust tuning. You would be advised to
check with the engine manufacturer of other engines.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
i don't know gang, i bought a Magellen Pioneer at K - Mart on sale for
$79.00 - ain't ahd a bit of problems with it. what more does an
ultralighter need ? .......... tim
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/2/99 5:59:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu writes:
<< Maybe everyone knows this, maybe not, so a reminder...
- egt depends on proper probe distances from cylinder sleeve (4")
and so the values quoted are only meaningful for this placement.
- egt is a reference and should be verified by checking plug color
as the real indicator of proper fuel/air mixture.
I know this well because I used a single probe at the Y for the first
two years. I was in no-man's land and made up for it by fussing with
my mixture like a nervous old woman. That was sure a waste of time
and energy.
Ben Ransom >>
ABSOLU|TELY !.....right on BEN!............I believe and can confirm
everything you said as my EGT's oftten drifted into the 1300 range when the
probe was mounted in the same position ....at the Y..Then Dennis pulled the
curtain of ignorance away from us on this list and poof....things started to
make sense........the probes MUST be mounted in the proper spot.....100mm away
instead of at the Y of the muffler!......................GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/2/99 11:00:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com writes:
<< i don't know gang, i bought a Magellen Pioneer at K - Mart on sale for
$79.00 - ain't ahd a bit of problems with it. what more does an
ultralighter need ? .......... tim
>>
Bless you Tim....you have a better deal by a long shot than me....I paid $138
for a Garmin 38 at walmarts and ....usually I just get mad when someone buys
something cheaper than me but ...I must say....I love my Garmin and am
overjoyed with its abilities...as I'm sure you are with your Magellen.
My biggest problem at the moment though, is where to stick it......Frank
Marino made me a board to velcro to my right leg ....but I haven't had a
chance to use it yet......Why is Frank not on this list anymore ...... He said
he did not "unsubscribe " but he is on longer getting mail! Has anyone else
suffered this dilemma?........GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
March Flying Mag, p58, has a short pc on Carb icing: Small amt can make
more icing.
GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
You can get some sticky-back velcro placed on the back of your GPS then
stick it to a nylon band (with the mating velcro) that also velcros
around your leg. The angle is perfect for me in my FireStar and it
doesn't take up anymore cockpit space. I have an old Magellan while my
flying buddy has the Pioneer which works well for him. You don't need
those expensive gps' with the moving maps and data bases to get you from
point a to b.
Ralph
>My biggest problem at the moment though, is where to stick
>it......Frank
>Marino made me a board to velcro to my right leg ....but I haven't had
>a
>chance to use it yet.....GeoR38
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | JP Instruments Fiasco |
Hi "other" listers! I am "crossing over" from Matt Dralle's RV-List; I
am not subscribed to this list, so please send any replies privately.
I'm sure you all have heard from Matt Dralle about the whole business
with JP Instruments' claim of trademark infringement. I wrote a letter
to JPI and CC'd it to the RV-list and got a lot of good response from
RV-List members, and I figured it wouldn't hurt to pass the letter on to
the other lists, as most people who responded about my letter said they
thought it summed up the situation well.
Since we haven't heard anything from Matt (who seems to be lying low,
and admirably so!) or JPI indicating any resolution is in sight, I
think it is a good idea for us to continue to let JPI know how we, their
potential customers, feel about this. So please take a moment to write
down your thoughts, however brief or long, and email, snail-mail, FAX,
or otherwise let your thoughts be known to them. It would probably not
be a bad idea to send whatever correspondence you have for them via
multiple channels to make sure they don't end up in the circular file.
Please keep your comments polite and respectful, and refrain from using
"harassing" tactics such as prank phone calls or "flooding" their FAX
machine. This is in line with what Matt asked in one of his letters to
the RV-list and we should do our best to honor that.
Here is my letter. I also encourage you to check out
<http://www.edt.com/homewing/jpi.html>, which has a summary of the whole
thing and links to relevant documents including JPIs position on the
whole thing.
Thanks
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
---
J.P. Instruments 2 March, 1999
Consumer Affairs Office
P.0. Box 7033
Huntington Beach, CA 92615
Dear Sirs,
When Matt Dralle of Matronics, Inc. first posted to his RV email list
a reprint of the facsimile transmission from your attorneys to him of
February 5, 1999, requesting that he cease using the name "Fuel Scan"
or be faced with "legal remedies", I frankly wasn't too concerned. I
didn't write any letters at that time, figuring that it was just a
"fishing expedition" on the part of JPI, and so weak that it could not
possibly go anywhere. I mean, who's really going to confuse "Scanner"
with FuelScan"? Especially when the two instruments do not even do the
same thing (one is an engine temperature monitoring system, the other
is a fuel computer.)
So I decided to let other people write the letters and sit back and
see what transpired. That is, until I read the "STATEMENT OF POSITION
REGARDING REGISTERED TRADEMARKS AND COPYRIGHT" on the J.P.
Instruments web site. After reading that, I was frankly outraged, and
felt compelled to respond.
In your statement you say:
"J.P. Instruments specifically sought to prevent the confusion of
one of J.P. Instrument's products, that performed the same
functions, and was sold in the same market place, and which also
claimed that its transducers were approved by the FAA, when they
were not."
Matronics' FuelScan is a multifunction fuel computer, providing
gallons per hour, fuel remaining, time left before empty, cost per
hour, fuel pressure, and several other fuel related functions. From
perusing J.P. Instruments' web page, the closest to that that I can
find is the EDM 700, a CHT/EGT gauge that has fuel flow in gallons per
hour as an add-on. It's an awfully long stretch to say that these two
instruments perform the same functions. As to the FAA approval of the
transducers, I wouldn't know about that -- nor care, since it's
completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.
"Matronics, upon it's own initiative, decided to present the dispute
to a public forum, without first contacting J.P. Instruments, and
without disclosing all of the relevant facts."
Yes he did, but only after J.P. Instruments decided, on their own
initiative, to sic their lawyers on Matronics without without first
contacting Matt directly. Perhaps if you had started out by calling
or writing Matt personally, it would have played out differently. But
by having your attorneys send a letter, in effect threatening a
lawsuit if he didn't change the name of his product, you set a hostile
tone for the negotiations from the beginning, and frankly I don't
blame Matt for not first calling you and asking pretty please would
you NOT file a lawsuit.
Presumably J.P. Instruments would have preferred to keep this all
quiet, and have the lawyers take care of it. But since Matt is a small
company operating on a shoestring budget, he was disinclined to spend
the money to retain a lawyer and instead asked for help from his
friends in the homebuilt community. Your implication seems to be that
this was somehow out of line. I disagree -- if he chose to take a
different approach than having his lawyers call your lawyers, that's
his prerogative.
As for not disclosing all of the relevant facts -- what are these
facts, pray tell? If you accuse him of not presenting all the facts,
but don't tell us what the facts are that he omitted, you are guilty
of doing exactly what you are accusing him of.
"The irreversible damage of this intentional campaign by Metronics
to discredit and damage the reputation of J.P. Instruments in the
aviation market place was extensive."
MAtronics (not MEtronics) did not carry out any such campaign, and it
is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to say so. The
extent of Matt's "campaign" was to post some messages (three to be
exact) to his RV email forum. The first one essentially said that he
had gotten this letter from JPI's attorneys, was very worried about
it, and asked for help in the form of legal advice or letters. The
second one said he was overwhelmed by all our support and thanked us,
and suggested we write polite, respectful letters to J.P. Instruments
telling you how we feel. The third one again thanked us for our
support, said it would not be appropriate for him to comment further
on the situation, and thanked us for our offers for help with legal
costs but that that would be premature at this time. Basically he
didn't disseminate ANY information, harmful or otherwise, other than
the letter from your lawyers. There was NO other "campaigning", nor
any specific attempt to cast JPI in a bad light. Quite frankly he
didn't need to; the letter spoke for itself, and we didn't need any
further prompting from Matt to want to do something about it.
"For several days, J.P. Instruments' phone lines were bombarded
with complaints and prank phone calls".... "Distasteful and obscene
letters were sent to several J.P. Instruments' sales and operations
were disrupted for a matter of days."
You seem to be implying that Matronics is somehow responsible for the
specific ways that people chose to express their feelings to you, or
in some way encouraged people to harass your company. In fact he did
quite the opposite; he stressed that we should be polite and
professional in any correspondence with you. If some people got over-
excited, it is the individuals who are responsible, not Matronics.
In any case, we have only your word that these letters were obscene or
that you got "prank" phone calls, since you didn't print any
examples. Having not seen these letters or heard the phone calls I am
inclined to be skeptical, especially in light of the other
misstatements that you put on your web site.
"J.P. Instruments also believes that a one-sided presentation of
the facts to the public, severely damaged the long established and
highly regarded reputation of a company, which is considered a
leader in its field."
Matt posted YOUR letter. That is YOUR side of it. He also said that he
didn't think it was warranted or fair. That is HIS side of it. What
other side is there?
"J. P. Instruments also believes that it is contradictory for
Metronics Inc. to complain that it is being unfairly treated by
J.P. Instruments lawful protection of its trademark, while at the
same time disseminating harmful and possibly slanderous material,
without contemplating the possible consequences."
And it is misleading and irresponsible to say the least, for J.P.
Instruments to state that "Metronics" has disseminated harmful or
slanderous material. Could you cite an example of this material? I
have gone back and carefully reread the messages that Matt posted,
and in them he never says anything that could possibly be construed,
even in the wildest imagination, as being harmful or slanderous to
JPI. He did post a copy of your letter, which could certainly be
harmful to your reputation, but since it was YOUR lawyers who wrote
the letter, Matronics can hardly be blamed for any harm that might
come to you through his simply showing it to other people. I therefore
respectfully recommend that you remove this statement from your web
site unless you can come up with something to back it up with.
In my opinion, by posting this statement on your web site you have
only dug yourself in deeper. My advice to you for the best way to
salvage what little shred of reputation you have left is to retract
your "request" and associated threat of legal action, and publicly
apologize to Matronics, and to the aviation community as a whole.
Respectfully submitted,
Randall Henderson
CC: Price, Gess & Ubell
Attorneys at Law
2100 S.E. Main Street, Suite 250
Irvine, California 92614-6238
February 5, 1999
CC: Matt Dralle, President
Matronics, Inc.
P.O. Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
If he didn't go off the list, maybe he should check with Matt Dralle.
Seems to me the messages have been thinner lately, or is it just me ??
Big Lar.
----------
> From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Why is Frank not on this list anymore ...... He said
> he did not "unsubscribe " but he is on longer getting mail! Has anyone
else
> suffered this dilemma?........GeoR38
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
In the latest issue of Contact ! magazine, #48, Jan/Feb ' 99, there is an
interesting article on the new GM V6 engine. On page 7, an engineer is
talking about engine block material, and why they chose to go with aluminum
block with cast in place iron liners, instead of alloy 390, or Nicosil
coatings. He claims that cast iron liners are less susceptible to
scuffing and high temps. Nicosil in particular will be stripped from the
cylinder walls by tiny amounts of sulfuric acid, produced by high sulfur
fuel combustion by-products. Seems to me I've read about some 2 stroke
mfg'ers who use Nicosil coatings. If so, seems like this would be an item
of some concern.
Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hale" <realaccess(at)jps.net> |
I have a Firestar I that I bought last November. It has a 447 and a 66"
Ivo
prop. In Ivo's literature they recommend 9 degrees of pitch. I read in CPS
catalog that they recommend 14 degrees. Right now I appear to be set at 19
degrees and my spark plugs are black. If I understand right what I have
seen on the list, I could go back to a lesser pitch and lean my mixture and
have better cruise. Is this something that everyone must experiment with on
their own or does someone have an ideal prop pitch that is optimum?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/4/99 9:16:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, realaccess(at)jps.net
writes:
<< Is this something that everyone must experiment with on
their own or does someone have an ideal prop pitch that is optimum?
>>
Pitch for the recomended maximum static RPM (which is probably 6200 on
your engine) and you will probably solve your problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
What the literature says is just a good place to start. Put the prop on,
pitch it, crank it up. See what happens. Change it. Be patient. What you
want is just what J.H. said the other day. At full throttle, straight and
level, you ought to hit the red line on your tach. That should also give
you a static setting a couple hundred rpm less than horsepower peak, and it
should allow you to be very close to peak horsepower rpm on climbout.
A note of caution: having lived with a torque-gutless 532 for years, it may
be necessary to run a bit less pitch on the 532 with a 3 blade prop than
other Rotax versions. The engine will not pull a three blade prop well if
it is pitched as described above. A two blade prop works much better on the
532. Brian says he has a Rotax 447 with a 66" Ivo. That is what I am
running on the 532. Go figure.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
> I have a Firestar I that I bought last November. It has a 447 and a
>66" Ivo
>prop. In Ivo's literature they recommend 9 degrees of pitch. I read in CPS
>catalog that they recommend 14 degrees. Right now I appear to be set at 19
>degrees and my spark plugs are black. If I understand right what I have
>seen on the list, I could go back to a lesser pitch and lean my mixture and
>have better cruise. Is this something that everyone must experiment with on
>their own or does someone have an ideal prop pitch that is optimum?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net> |
Hello Listers,
I am soliciting as many opinions (facts?) as I can.
The form for the student medical asks if you HAVE EVER taken certain
drugs including:
Motion Sickness Medication and Anti-depressants. If you are not taking
any medication at present but have taken stuff in the past that
disqualified you from flying, are you in trouble?
Also, why the heck do they have to examine your rectum? Is this some
bureacrat's idea of a joke?
Woody (the other Woody)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Brian Hale wrote:
>
>
> I have a Firestar I that I bought last November. It has a 447 and a 66"
Ivo
> prop. In Ivo's literature they recommend 9 degrees of pitch. I read in CPS
> catalog that they recommend 14 degrees. Right now I appear to be set at 19
> degrees and my spark plugs are black. If I understand right what I have
> seen on the list, I could go back to a lesser pitch and lean my mixture and
> have better cruise. Is this something that everyone must experiment with on
> their own or does someone have an ideal prop pitch that is optimum?
Hello Brian:
I believe those are recommended settings to get you in the
ball park. Next one has to adjust pitch for about 6200 to
6300 rpm static. Then go fly WOT straight and level.
Should be able to turn the redline rpm, 6800 and no more.
This should give you the best of both climb and cruise
performance. It works for me.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ToddThom(at)aol.com |
REminds me of the GM Vega aluminum 4C engines of the 70's. Lasted about 50K
and died. They recalled the cars/engines and stuffed in a liner to help the
engines if memory serves me correctly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
Since I am new to the list I don't know whether you guys are aware of the
update to the needle, clip, and white plastic retaining cup on used in the
bing carb.
The needle spins in the clip cutting the needle groves. The Rotax update
puts a little rubber O ring on top of the needle and the new plastic
retainer has a groove in it so that the O ring puts pressure on the needle
to stop it from spinning.
Mark Smith from TriState ultralights also reports that putting a dab of
silicone on the needle and clip before you install the plastic retainer also
does the same job.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Needle and clip |
Loveman David wrote:
>
> Mark Smith from TriState ultralights also reports that putting a dab of
> silicone on the needle and clip before you install the plastic retainer also
> does the same job.
>
David and Kolb Gang:
I have to disagree with Mark Smith from TriState
Ultralights, reference silicone seal and carb parts.
Silicone seal and gasoline are not compatible. It would be
nice it they were, but they do not like each other. When
silicone seal and gasoline come in contact with each other
the silicone seal comes out of its solid state and breaks up
into little pieces that plug up everything they come in
contact with, especially those things that you do not want
to get plugged up.
My old Firestar and I spent several hours on the Sebring,
Florida, high school football field, during school hours,
after we got put down by silicone seal. I used a little to
close the vent hole in the fuel cap of a Ken Brock seat tank
(vented tank overboard thru floor of aircraft to prevent
fuel from running down the back of my neck if I landed
inverted again). The silicone seal disolved into little
"turds" stopping up intake valve on primer bulb and down I
came.
DO NOT USE SILICONE SEAL IN ANY APPLICATION THAT INVOLVES
THE FUEL SYSTEM.
john h (hauck's holler, alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel level gauge info |
Has anyone had any Kolb experience with either of the fuel gauge systems now
available. One is a solid state capacitance measureing unit and the other is
the float position measureing type (as was used on cars for many years). I'm
ready to buy and want to make my selection based on performance rather that
price. It's important because whenever I look my fuel tank while flying I am
never sure my head will swivel back to the straight-forward and upright
position :-) .
Duane Mitchell, N. Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge info |
In a message dated 3/4/99 1:55:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, MitchMnD(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Has anyone had any Kolb experience with either of the fuel gauge systems
now
available. One is a solid state capacitance measureing unit and the other is
the float position measureing type (as was used on cars for many years). >>
My friend with a challenger has the capacitance guage and it has never
worked well. Have you considered a sight tube?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard C Webb" <RICKWW(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge info |
Mitch,I'm using the capacitance type on the EIS system and it works great.
Rick Webb
-----Original Message-----
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 7:08 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel level gauge info
>
>Has anyone had any Kolb experience with either of the fuel gauge systems
now
>available. One is a solid state capacitance measureing unit and the other
is
>the float position measureing type (as was used on cars for many years).
I'm
>ready to buy and want to make my selection based on performance rather that
>price. It's important because whenever I look my fuel tank while flying I
am
>never sure my head will swivel back to the straight-forward and upright
>position :-) .
>
>Duane Mitchell, N. Florida
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel recommendation |
The use of aviation fuels is NOT recommended for Rotax two stroke engines.
The term "low lead" fuel is misleading. The term is used by the the aviation
industry, because relative to other fuels in use, it was lower in lead
content than comparable octane rated aviation fuel. It was not used as a
comparison to standard automotive fuels, because automotive fuels even
"Mogas" were not used in aircraft at the time.Lead, which give us higher
octane is required for resisting detonation, is now being replaced by
additives, including "alcohol," in our fuels. For two stroke engines, it is
important to avoid any "alcohol type additives." The problem with methanol
or ethanol, is that it resists blending with two stroke lubricants. Thus
fuel mixed with oil in a tank do not "blend together." efficently and
effectively. Engines that use oil injection systems are not as prone to this
gas an oil separation since the oil is added at the last possible instant,
as the fuel enters the engine.
My recommendation for fuel in a Rotax two stroke engine is to use a premium
grade unlead fuel of 92 octane. The fuel should be free of any alcohol and
not exceed the 2% oil mixture requirement.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel recommendation |
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Loveman David wrote:
> My recommendation for fuel in a Rotax two stroke engine is to use a premium
> grade unlead fuel of 92 octane. The fuel should be free of any alcohol and
> not exceed the 2% oil mixture requirement.
OK, devils advocate here. Wouldn't it be reasonable to guess that the
highest octane auto fuel might be the most likely to contain alcohol?
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel recommendation |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Dave and others,
We have been using 7% ethanol in autogas for years here and have not seen
a problem. In fact the ethanol will keep moisture out of the gas up to a
point. That point is "phase separation" which will precipitate out and
cause problems. It would take a few ounces of water per tank to cause
this (can't recall the exact amount). I have flown on gas that has been
sitting in my tank for 2 months at times. This may seem dumb, but I have
not seen any difference between it and fresh gas. The FireStar sits
inside which may explain why the gas is preserved longer. My flying buddy
in his Original FireStar uses ethanol gas too and has 300 hours without a
tear down. We both use Seafoam and it appears to be working well (not
trying to start another Seafoam thread).
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
> For two stroke engines, it is important to avoid any "alcohol type
additives." >The problem with methanol or ethanol, is that it resists
blending with two >stroke lubricants. Thus fuel mixed with oil in a tank
do not "blend together." >efficently and effectively. Engines that use
oil injection systems are not as >prone to this gas an oil separation
since the oil is added at the last possible
>instant, as the fuel enters the engine. My recommendation for fuel in a
Rotax >two stroke engine is to use a premium grade unlead fuel of 92
octane. The fuel >should be free of any alcohol and not exceed the 2%
oil mixture requirement.
>Dave Loveman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Woody-- having passed all my medicals for more than 50 yrs, except the
last one which I didn't take--my advice is to be as honest as you think
you should be! Like always doing 55 on the road. Depends upon the
seriousness of the problem for which you have taken the meds. If you say
zip, and have some problem, they'll get you. Like flying fat?
As for the other END--some quacks just like to look into things.
Remember, they are just Practicing Medicine. GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel recommendation |
Loveman David wrote:
>
>
> The use of aviation fuels is NOT recommended for Rotax two stroke engines.
Not quite true. Although MoGas is generally preferred, there are some
areas (like here in Southern Calif.) where the additives and oxygenators
make it less suitable, expecially in the winter. I understand CPS
recommends avgas now for Rotax for this reason. When I was using mogas,
I had frequent starting problems and rough running. If I didn't fly for
a few weeks, I almost always had to drain the gas and use new stuff just
to get it started. I use avgas exclusively now and have none of those
problems. Just clean the plugs more often to take care of any lead
buildup.
avgas has stabilizers so it won't go bad in a few weeks. It also runs
about 100 degress cooler on the EGT. If you can get consistently good
mogas, use it. Its a lot cheaper. But if you often let it sit for
several weeks or more, I would recommend adding a stabilizer.
--
***********************************************
* Bill Weber * Keep *
* Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
* Simi Valley, CA * side up *
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | : Fuel recommendation |
Unless you have a sealed tank octane vents from the fuel when it sits, even
faster when mixed with oil. This causes the fuel to fire too soon in the
cylinder usually resulting in detonation, which shows up in a hole in the
top of the piston.
The safest thing is to fly using fuel from a busy station, mix what you are
going to use to fly with, when not flying for extended periods, or for
safety on a regular basis remove water from the system using a water trap at
the lowest point.
I would also suggest on planes left in storage for extended periods that the
float bowl be removed and the fuel drained from them.
Flying is not like driving a motorcylce, skidoo, or water craft, what you
may get away with today, could kill you tomorrow! You can't just pull over,
or wait for someone to come and get you when the engine stops at 300 feet,
with no where to go.
Flying requires a "different" safety level and a different mind set.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel recommendation |
Loveman David wrote:
>
>
> The use of aviation fuels is NOT recommended for Rotax two stroke engines.
> The term "low lead" fuel is misleading. The term is used by the the aviation
Hi Dave and Gang:
What brought up the subject of "Fuel Recommendation?" Maybe
I missed a couple posts or three.
I agree with everything you say about 100LL, you are talking
about 100LL???
However, if I didn't run 100LL in my old 447 I would have
hardly gotten out of the backyard with my Firestar. In
order to make any kind of extended XC I had to run 100LL. I
ran a lot of 100LL flying in 32 States and all the States
east of the Mississippi River and parts of Canada. I share
that with you to illustrate that I put a lot of hours at
5800 to 6000 rpm all day long to make these XCs, not to try
and impress you with the accomplishments. I never had a
problem burning 100LL except one, that was paying for it.
Only performance difference was the EGT seemed a little
lower burning 100LL. Other than that, no mechanical
problems. Never had rings stick, I didn't give them time
to. I never baby a two stroke. Run the Hell out of it and
it'll stay clean, if all the other parameters are met.
I've shared this opinion before and I will share it with the
List again. Ultralighters that land at GA Airports, request
a courtesy car to go to the local service station for MOGAS,
not buy fuel from the FBO who is trying to scratch out a
living at that little airport, are certainly not making any
points with the GA community. A little 100LL will not ruin
your Rotax, 2 or 4 stroke. My 912 has 1000 plus hours on
it. It flew almost every day for 41 days on a steady diet
of 100LL. So far, no problems with 912.
Fly, have fun, be safe.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Smart" <gsmart(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Needle and clip |
To you all,
Listen to John, silicone and fuel hate each other.
Try the Rotax O ring it works well.
but still check regularly.
RE : capacitance fuel gauges mine works great, takes a little to set up, but
don't they all.
I also use sight tube, as a back up and when filling the tank ,as the fuel
gauge has to be turn on.
Geoff MAD MAX
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Friday, 5 March 1999 0:58
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Needle and clip
>
>
>Loveman David wrote:
>>
>
>> Mark Smith from TriState ultralights also reports that putting a dab of
>> silicone on the needle and clip before you install the plastic retainer
also
>> does the same job.
>>
>
>David and Kolb Gang:
>
>I have to disagree with Mark Smith from TriState
>Ultralights, reference silicone seal and carb parts.
>
>Silicone seal and gasoline are not compatible. It would be
>nice it they were, but they do not like each other. When
>silicone seal and gasoline come in contact with each other
>the silicone seal comes out of its solid state and breaks up
>into little pieces that plug up everything they come in
>contact with, especially those things that you do not want
>to get plugged up.
>
>My old Firestar and I spent several hours on the Sebring,
>Florida, high school football field, during school hours,
>after we got put down by silicone seal. I used a little to
>close the vent hole in the fuel cap of a Ken Brock seat tank
>(vented tank overboard thru floor of aircraft to prevent
>fuel from running down the back of my neck if I landed
>inverted again). The silicone seal disolved into little
>"turds" stopping up intake valve on primer bulb and down I
>came.
>
>DO NOT USE SILICONE SEAL IN ANY APPLICATION THAT INVOLVES
>THE FUEL SYSTEM.
>
>john h (hauck's holler, alabama)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Larry Bourne wrote:
> In the latest issue of Contact ! magazine, #48, Jan/Feb ' 99, there is an
> interesting article on the new GM V6 engine. On page 7, an engineer is
> talking about engine block material, and why they chose to go with aluminum
> block with cast in place iron liners, instead of alloy 390, or Nicosil
> coatings. He claims that cast iron liners are less susceptible to
> scuffing and high temps. Nicosil in particular will be stripped from the
> cylinder walls by tiny amounts of sulfuric acid, produced by high sulfur
> fuel combustion by-products. Seems to me I've read about some 2 stroke
> mfg'ers who use Nicosil coatings. If so, seems like this would be an item
> of some concern.
> Big Lar.
Nicosil linings are the main claim to fame in Hirth engines. There could
be little (no) argument that it is a harder alloy than plain ol steel
sleeves, but I have not heard the bit about sulfur corrosion differences
ever before. Comments Jim?
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
The "Finger Wave" is to see if us Old Guys are starting to have prostate
trouble. I know they give it to you on a 2nd class physical after you get
over 45, or at least our AME does. I guess it did me some good.
About 5 years ago the Doc said my prostate was getting enlarged, and I had
noticed I couldn't make it through the night without having to get up to
pee a couple times. Started taking saw palmetto and after about 6 months,
things started getting better. My last physical the Doc said the prostate
was normal, and I generally can sleep about 6-7 hours before it wakes me
up. I have never been much of a health freak, but I think the saw palmetto
works. Be patient, it takes quite a while to see results, but the results
are worth seeing, and the side effects are nil.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42Oldpoops that sleep well)
>Also, why the heck do they have to examine your rectum? Is this some
>bureacrat's idea of a joke?
>
>Woody (the other Woody)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> Nicosil linings are the main claim to fame in Hirth engines. There could
> be little (no) argument that it is a harder alloy than plain ol steel
> sleeves, but I have not heard the bit about sulfur corrosion differences
> ever before. Comments Jim?
> -Ben Ransom
T'ain't so. Rotax 912 and 914, Porche, and lots of water and snow
craft all use Nikasil process these days. Besides, high sulfur fuels
are confined to third world countries and those without strict
emissions standards.
J. Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge info |
Duane and Kolbers, I use a gauge I bought at E&B Marine for 35 bucks. It has
worked exactly as I promramed it since new. Firehawk
----Original Message-----
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:54 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel level gauge info
>
>Has anyone had any Kolb experience with either of the fuel gauge systems
now
>available. One is a solid state capacitance measureing unit and the other
is
>the float position measureing type (as was used on cars for many years).
I'm
>ready to buy and want to make my selection based on performance rather that
>price. It's important because whenever I look my fuel tank while flying I
am
>never sure my head will swivel back to the straight-forward and upright
>position :-) .
>
>Duane Mitchell, N. Florida
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | gas/oil in suspension |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Dave has prompted another question about the mixed oil that sits in your
tank between flights. Does the oil mixture that sits for a month or so
remain in suspension in equal amounts, or do they separate?
Another question: as the octane in the tank evaporates from the top, does
the bottom half have more octane? This may answer the question that I
had a few nights ago when I asked why my EGT would drop 50 deg after a
half hour of flight. Possible answer? The depleted octane near the top
would burn hotter and then later on it would be running slightly cooler
on the higher octane fuel.
Comments please ......
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel recommendation |
> > My recommendation for fuel in a Rotax two stroke engine is to use a premium
> > grade unlead fuel of 92 octane. The fuel should be free of any alcohol and
> > not exceed the 2% oil mixture requirement.
>
> OK, devils advocate here. Wouldn't it be reasonable to guess that the
> highest octane auto fuel might be the most likely to contain alcohol?
>
> -Ben Ransom
No offense intended to anyone, but below is an article I researched
with several oil companies (Conoco, Texaco, and Mobil)
concerning fuels. Take a gander. The last part of the article
explains the erroneous---or at least what I consider to be erroneous
since you, the pilot in command, have the final say what goes into
your tank---position on high octane fuels. Many of us use 87 grade
without problems but you should be aware that So Cal and
southwestern US fuels are formulated for much different emissions
and higher altitudes. Ethanol OK to a point, methanol..no way.
Pass the gas, man....or...Don't knock it......
What'cha feeding your demanding little monster? Do you know
what the factory recommends? Do you even care? Ha! Thought so!
Gasoline specifications and ratings can be a mystery but don't
need to be. We are about to try to clear some of the
mystery....hang on. Gasoline contains over 500 hydrocarbons.
Hydrocarbons ( HCs ) are any molecules that just contain
hydrogen and carbon, both of which are fuel molecules that can be
burnt ( oxidized ) to form water ( H2O ) or carbon dioxide ( CO2 ). If
the combustion is not complete, carbon monoxide ( CO ) may be
formed. As CO can be burnt to produce CO2, it is also a fuel.
Oxygenates are added to gasolines to reduce the reactivity of
emissions. Oxygenates are just preused hydrocarbons. They
contain oxygen, which can not provide energy, but their structure
provides a reasonable antiknock value, thus they are good
substitutes for aromatics (Benzene and Toluene), and they may
also reduce the smog-forming tendencies of the exhaust gases.
Most oxygenates used in gasolines are either alcohols or ethers.
Alcohols have been used in gasolines since the 1930s, and methyl
tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) was first used in commercial gasolines
in Italy in 1973, and was first used in the US by ARCO in 1979.
Initially, the oxygenates were added to hydrocarbon fractions that
were slightly-modified unleaded gasoline fractions, and these were
known as "oxygenated" gasolines. In 1995, the hydrocarbon
fraction was significantly modified, and these gasolines are called
"reformulated gasolines" ( RFGs ), and there are differing
specifications for California ( Phase 2 ) and Federal ( simple model
) RFGs, however both require oxygenates to provide Octane.
There are huge number of chemical mechanisms involved in the pre-
flame reactions of gasoline combustion. Although both alkyl leads
and oxygenates are effective at suppressing knock, the chemical
modes through which they act are entirely different. MTBE works
by retarding the progress of the low temperature or cool-flame
reactions.
Now, the efficiency of a spark-ignited gasoline engine can be
related to the compression ratio up to at least compression ratio
17:1. However any "knock" caused by the fuel will rapidly
mechanically destroy an engine ( which is the point of this article
and where we're headed). The effective compression ratio of the
common UL two stroke engine is in the 5:1 to 7:1 range.
Higher octane aviation gasoline was required urgently once the US
entered WWI, and almost every possible chemical ( including
melted butter ) was tested for antiknock ability. Aviation gasolines
were all highly leaded and graded using two numbers, with
common grades being 80/87, 100/130, and 115/145 [109,110]. The
first number is the Aviation rating ( aka Lean Mixture rating ), and
the second number is the Supercharge rating ( aka Rich Mixture
rating ). In the 1970s a new grade, 100LL ( low lead = 0.53mlTEL/L
instead of 1.06mlTEL/L) was introduced to replace the 80/87 and
100/130. Soon after the introduction, there was a spate of plug
fouling, and high cylinder head temperatures resulting in cracked
cylinder heads. Curiously, most two stroke users find that their
EGTs (and CHTs, proportionately) drop by about 50 degreees. The
old 80/87 grade was reintroduced on a limited scale. The Aviation
Rating is determined using the automotive Motor Octane test
procedure, and then converted to an Aviation Number using a table
in the method. Aviation Numbers below 100 are Octane numbers,
while numbers above 100 are Performance numbers. There is
usually only 1 - 2 Octane units different to the Motor value up to
100, but Performance numbers varies significantly above that eg
110 MON = 128 Performance number.
It is important to note that the theoretical energy content of
gasoline when burned in air is only related to the hydrogen and
carbon contents. The energy is released when the hydrogen and
carbon are oxidized (burnt), to form water and carbon dioxide.
Octane rating is not fundamentally related to the energy content,
and the actual hydrocarbon and oxygenate components used in
the gasoline will determine both the energy release and the
antiknock rating.
So what is an octane rating? Simply put, the octane rating of the
fuel reflects the ability of the unburnt end gases to resist
spontaneous auto ignition under the engine test conditions used. If
auto ignition occurs, it results in an extremely rapid pressure rise,
as both the desired spark-initiated flame front, and the undesired
auto ignited end gas flames are expanding. The combined pressure
peak arrives slightly ahead of the normal operating pressure peak,
leading to a loss of power and eventual overheating. The end gas
pressure waves are superimposed on the main pressure wave,
leading to a sawtooth pattern of pressure oscillations that create
the "knocking" sound. The antiknock ability is related to the "auto
ignition temperature" of the hydrocarbons. Antiknock ability is not
substantially related to:-
1. The energy content of fuel. This should be obvious, as
oxygenates have lower energy contents, but high octanes.
2. The flame speed of the conventionally ignited mixture. Although
flame speed does play a minor part, there are many other factors
that are far more important. ( such as compression ratio,
stoichiometry, combustion chamber shape, chemical structure of
the fuel, presence of antiknock additives, number and position of
spark plugs, turbulence etc.) Flame speed does not correlate with
octane.
So here we are at the heart of the matter....octane is not power,
only an anti-knock solution. The Antiknock Index ( aka
RON+MON/2="Pump Octane" ) The ( Research Octane Number +
Motor Octane Number ) divided by two. The conditions of the Motor
method represent severe, sustained high speed, high load driving.
For most hydrocarbon fuels, including those with either lead or
oxygenates, the motor octane number (MON) will be lower than the
research octane number (RON). The Research method settings
represent typical mild driving, without consistent heavy loads on
the engine. . Fuels with an Antiknock index of 87, 89, 91 (
Unleaded), and 88 ( Leaded ) are listed as typical for the US at sea
level, however higher altitudes will specify lower octane numbers.
So what does all this mean and what does the Rotax manual say?
It says use fuel of MON 83 or RON 90, leaded or unleaded. What
fuel can you use? 83 + 90 / 2 =86.5....just slightly lower than the
minimum grade of 87 at the pump. Why do so many folks insist on
using 89 or 91 octane fuels? The higher proportion of aromatics
used with higher octane fuels should give them an edge in shelf life
but only if the fuel is fresh to begin with. Reactions of the
unsaturated Hydrocarbons with additives may produce gums and
this is the reason why pre-mixed fuel/oil has a shorter shelf life.
Stale fuel has gums and varnishes which cause sticking piston
rings. There is also a strong reason to not use oxygenated fuels
(alcohol based) because alcohol readily absorbs water from the air
and the water will then precipitate out if the alcohol has absorbed
all it can. Water in your fuel is not desirable.
>
>
>
>
J. Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
brien, about your prop... i have a firestar with a 377. i have a three -
blade ultraprop with 17 degrees of pitch, with 16 degrees of pitch i max out at
7,000 rpm so i went up one degree to 17 and now max rpm at 6500. i don't
remember the diameter of said prop. i have my engine running about as lean as
you can get it, i use the smallest jet in the carb and keep my clip on the top
notch. as far as how lean you should run your engine , i guess that everyone
does it a little diffrently, depending on what engine they have and where they
live/fly and what time of year it is. anywho, that's how i do it ...........
tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GARY FITCHEN <babylakes(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: : Fuel recommendation |
Dave,
Found this site on fuel stabilizers, it has a lot of good info on the
subject that you and the others are
talking about. www.4unique.com/fuel/fuel_tutorial.htm
Gary
---Loveman David wrote:
>
>
> Unless you have a sealed tank octane vents from the fuel when it
sits, even
> faster when mixed with oil. This causes the fuel to fire too soon in
the
> cylinder usually resulting in detonation, which shows up in a hole
in the
> top of the piston.
> The safest thing is to fly using fuel from a busy station, mix what
you are
> going to use to fly with, when not flying for extended periods, or for
> safety on a regular basis remove water from the system using a water
trap at
> the lowest point.
> I would also suggest on planes left in storage for extended periods
that the
> float bowl be removed and the fuel drained from them.
> Flying is not like driving a motorcylce, skidoo, or water craft,
what you
> may get away with today, could kill you tomorrow! You can't just
pull over,
> or wait for someone to come and get you when the engine stops at 300
feet,
> with no where to go.
> Flying requires a "different" safety level and a different mind set.
> Dave Loveman
> I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
> http://www.ultralightnews.com
>
>
> Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ToddThom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge info |
Try using a small rear view mirror so you can see the tank(s). Ben R. don't
you have a web picture of something like this? Or was that someone else?
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 3/4/99 11:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ToddThom(at)aol.com
writes:
<< REminds me of the GM Vega aluminum 4C engines of the 70's. Lasted about
50K
and died. They recalled the cars/engines and stuffed in a liner to help the
engines if memory serves me correctly.
>>
Todd, I live near the vega plant and we were led to believe that the reason so
much difficulty was resident to the vega engine was due to the porting in the
water jacket circuit. This was supposed to enable the cylinders to go
elliptoid instead of the wonderful circle that we all have come to love and
this enabled wall wear to shorten the life of the motor . I think the 77
model was all right though but by that time the name was so bad they abandoned
the idea and went with. the iron lung which was always available in a model
of the pontiac version of the vega. Bear in mind, the Vega was supposed to be
a "throw away car"...the original concept...kinda like the wrappers at Mickey
Dee's and Burger King which was just taking off in those days...a stupid
marketing concept that didn't pan out cause even though a vega only cost $2200
then, people would still get frustrated when their fenders rusted
out....sorry...I'm done.............GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Engine protection |
Just had a customer come in with the fan on his 503 in about 10 different
pieces. We had a snow storm up here the other day, and then a thaw and then
it froze again.
Apparently the snow was blown into the fan shroud, thawed and then froze.
When he started the engine some of the ice came in contact with the blades
and.....
A cheap way of protecting the engine from rain, snow ice, sun etc is to
cover it using a barbque cover. They come with some kind of heat protection
built in so you can put them on an engine right away, are available in
several sizes, and have some have a string around the bottom you can use to
chinch them up with.
They also make a great parachute cover. You can see a picture of one on my
old buc at http://www.ultralightnews.com/news/engcov.html
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge info |
About the solid-state style fuel-level indicators. I use the system
from CPS. My system is not correct, but it is consistant in it's
incorrectness. I have learned to know my levels by how it registers
with my system. The literature that comes with the system tries to
explain just how to calabrate it, but the directions were more
complicated than those which claim "any child can build this". I have
marked on my guage (with colored tape) when I have one gallon of fuel
left. I have also learned the last half tank dissipates "much" faster
than the first half. Now that I am use to this, it is no problem.
Hope this helps.
regards
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
How many of you guys caught this error? I stated the fuel at the top of
the tank was depleted of octane due to evaporation and went on to say
that it would be burned in the first minutes of flight. Since the tank is
"obviously" siphoned from the bottom, the "higher" octane fuel is used up
first. I want to point this out not because I goofed, but to use as an
example of "late night" thinking. When I was building my FireStar, I
always made myself quit before I got too tired. I know that when I work
late, my chances of making any errors will increase. So you builders out
there, take your time and you won't have to agonized over something that
you wished you had not done. Forgive me please.
I haven't read over my email tonight, but I'm still looking for an answer
on why my EGT would decrease after the first half hour of flight. Still
any ideas?
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
>This may answer the question that I
>had a few nights ago when I asked why my EGT would drop 50 deg after a
>half hour of flight. Possible answer? The depleted octane near the
>top
>would burn hotter and then later on it would be running slightly
>cooler
>on the higher octane fuel.
>
>Comments please ......
>
>Ralph Burlingame
>Original FireStar, 447 powered
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: late night hrs |
It is late at night, so maybe this is not good thinking, but what could
make the engine richen up, or increase the apparent load ?
Could there be an air leak that gradually sealed itself up as things heat
saturated?
Could the carb floats gradually get fuel soaked and sink lower in the float
bowl?
Could the air cleaners be getting fuel soaked and pass less air, richening
the mixture?
(Now we start to really reach...)
Maybe the rings are having just a little blowby, and after things get
really heat soaked, they loosen up, the blow by diminishes, and things cool
down? (I think this would probably affect CHT more than EGT.)
The oil is somewhat separated from the fuel, and has settled out. The
fuel/oil mixture at the bottom of the tank is oil rich (and therefore fuel
lean), and the engine is getting over-oiled, and under-fueled. After you
consume this oil rich mixture, the engine gets the right mix of fuel/oil?
You have a miniscule leak in the choke circuit. After running for half an
hour, the plunger finally sits down firmly on the bypass orofice, and stops
the fuel leaking past?
After flying for half an hour, you realize that you are not getting
anywhere fast, raise the nose, load the prop, and the EGT's fall?
Your EGT gauge is getting tired?
By the time you get all these idiotic suggestions attempted, you will have
worn out the engine anyway, and your new one will have different EGT
settings. But who knows...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>I haven't read over my email tonight, but I'm still looking for an answer
>on why my EGT would decrease after the first half hour of flight. Still
>any ideas?
>
>Ralph Burlingame
>Original FireStar, 447 powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Souder <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
>
> I have a Firestar I that I bought last November. It has a 447 and a
66" Ivo
>prop. In Ivo's literature they recommend 9 degrees of pitch. I read in CPS
>catalog that they recommend 14 degrees. Right now I appear to be set at 19
>degrees and my spark plugs are black. If I understand right what I have
>seen on the list, I could go back to a lesser pitch and lean my mixture and
>have better cruise. Is this something that everyone must experiment with on
>their own or does someone have an ideal prop pitch that is optimum?
>
>
Brian,
Usually the prop manufacturer gives a setting that can be considered a
starting point. Then you run the engine and based upon the rpm's you
measure, you can readjust the prop accordingly. The EGT's will be affected
by the prop setting, but if the carb has the wrong jets, etc. you may not
have enough adjustment with the prop to obtain the desired EGT and stay
within the allowed rpm range.
Plus think that maybe these is some mixup here: The IVO literature that I
have seen does not give a 19 degree setting. The max on the literature I
have in front of me says 17 degrees. Possibly you may be looking literature
that is for another propeller? The IVO has 2 differetn adjustment
mechanisms: one adjusts with the moving of shims, the other adjsut by
turning a large diam threaded screw. Does this describe your propeller?
Dennis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
If you are flying on a Rotax 2 stroke water cooled engine remember to use
"DISTILLED" water in your 50/50 mix.
I had a customer bring in an engine complaining of overheating. When I tried
to do a flow test I couldn't get anything to come out of the head. Thinking
the thermostat had failed I removed it. It was fine.
I then removed the head to find that ALL of the holes were blocked solid.
The customer had used water from his tap, which was connected to a water
softener! Which is SALT - salt and aluminum do not go good together.
Also any water source like a well etc will also have other minerals in it
that can react with the aluminum. So my recommendation for what it is worth
use "Distilled Water."
In summer if you find your temps rising a little don't be afraid to use a
95% water to 5% antifreeze solution. Anitfreeze is NOT a good heat conductor
and you can drop about 20 degrees by using 95% water, you need the
antifreeze for lubrication and protection, in your system.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: late night hrs |
Ralph what kind of RPM is your engine pulling full power straight and level,
and what rpm do you cruise at?
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Alcohol in your fuel? |
The following is taken from Rotax Service bulletin UL's 13 94
Using auto fuel in Rotax two cycle aircraft engines.
Fuel quality in regards to the operation of a two cycle engine is becoming
ever more important. The basic steps to follow and things to watch for are
as follows;
It is essential that the operator scrutinize each fuel batch to determine
the fuel's overall suitability.
Always buy fuel from a large supplier who openly displays the current octane
ratings.
Make all efforts possible to confirm the fuel your buying is as advertised.
Try and get basic technical data on the fuel you are using in regards to;
octane ratings, ethanol/methanol blend, oxygenates, seasonal blend
crossovers etc..Your minimum fuel requirement is listed in the current issue
of your operators manual for your engine type.
Oxygenates (alcohol additives) are to be avoided, any volumes over five
percent cannot be used. Testing for alcohol is the only safe way to be sure
your fuel is okay for use in a Rotax engine.
As simple test for doing this is available through authorized distributors
of Mogas for aircraft. Contact your local FAA for your nearest Mogas
distributor.
The effects of alcohol in your engine are as follows:
The alcohol will attract water, this can, cause your sediment traps to
flood, plug filters and restrict fuel flow.
Also, the alcohol competes directly with the lubrication, and depending on
your oil's ability to combat such, could cause engine damage.
Alcohol carries water which on shutdown and storage can create corrosion on
vital engine parts such as crank, main, and rod bearings as well as pins.
Once corrosion has started the bearings will fail.
Seasonal blend crossovers can affect your fuels volatility, if you use a
winter blend fuel during hot summer days. This is a common occurrence with
people who buy a fuel blend in colder climates in March, but don't use it in
the Rotax engine until June. Evaporation temperatures of your fuel must be
low enough to minimize crankcase and combustion chamber deposits as well as
spark plug fouling without fear of vapour locking of boiling. Always make
sure you buy your fuel from a high volume user, and avoid fuel which is been
storage for long periods of time, especially between seasons.Loss of octane
rating is a common problem on fuel stored incorrectly which could lead
directly to engine failure.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "merle hargis" <merlepilar(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Dave I am sure glad you are on our list. Thanks for all your good
knowledge you pass on to us less informed.
Merle Hargis
(Twinstar) from Orlando
----------
> From: Loveman David <ultralightnews(at)excite.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Coolant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> Dave I am sure glad you are on our list. Thanks for all your good
> knowledge you pass on to us less informed.
> Merle Hargis
> (Twinstar) from Orlando
>
> ----------
> > From: Loveman David <ultralightnews(at)excite.com>
> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Coolant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Glad to be here - hope you guys don't take offense to some of the things I
report, and get me kicked off like the Challengers guys did.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alcohol in your fuel? |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Dave, we have always used ethanol gas in our Rotax engines and have not
experienced any problems. The station does have high volume, but the
ethanol-free gas may not sell as well. I wonder about the water content
in this and with my good fortune, I choose to keep using the ethanol. We
have had engines apart after 300 hrs and they look clean using
synthetics. This is the first I've heard about the warning from Rotax.
Now I'm not sure what to do.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 350 hrs on 377 using ethanol
>Also, the alcohol competes directly with the lubrication, and
>depending on
>your oil's ability to combat such, could cause engine damage.
engine failure.
>
>Dave Loveman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart(at)ncfcomm.com> |
Dave, again, you were not removed from the list for your knowledge. It
was the way you presented it. I'm on several lists, BTW, including this Kolb
list. Have been for 2 years.
Do not slam the list I created, on other lists. I wouldn't mind if you
were back on the Challenger list, as long as the flames didn't erupt again.
This Kolb list is a model of civility and I try to maintain the Challenger list
to the same standards. Hopefully, this is the last word on the subject.
Thanks for the bandwidth. Back to lurk mode.
J.D. Stewart
Challenger List Administrator, and Kolb admirer.
http://challenger.maverick.net
----------
From: Loveman David[SMTP:ultralightnews(at)excite.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Coolant
>
> Dave I am sure glad you are on our list. Thanks for all your good
> knowledge you pass on to us less informed.
> Merle Hargis
> (Twinstar) from Orlando
>
Glad to be here - hope you guys don't take offense to some of the things I
report, and get me kicked off like the Challengers guys did.
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alcohol in your fuel? |
>
> Dave, we have always used ethanol gas in our Rotax engines and have not
> experienced any problems. The station does have high volume, but the
> ethanol-free gas may not sell as well. I wonder about the water content
> in this and with my good fortune, I choose to keep using the ethanol. We
> have had engines apart after 300 hrs and they look clean using
> synthetics. This is the first I've heard about the warning from Rotax.
> Now I'm not sure what to do.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original FireStar, 350 hrs on 377 using ethanol
>
>
> >Also, the alcohol competes directly with the lubrication, and
> >depending on
> >your oil's ability to combat such, could cause engine damage.
> engine failure.
> >
Ralph the proof is in the pudding. When ever I give an opinion on something
- like oil for example - I can't speak until I have had an engine apart
with hours on it. 300 is the number I look for. If you have that kind of
hours and show no signs of problem then you "combination" is not a problem.
My only suggestion would be to watch for water appearing in the tank or carb
bowls.
>Dave Loveman
>
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
>
> Dave, again, you were not removed from the list for your
knowledge. It was the way you presented it. I'm on several lists, BTW,
including this Kolb list. Have been for 2 years.
> Do not slam the list I created, on other
I did not slam you or your list. I am not doing anything different on this
list than I was on yours. I would be more than happy to be back on your list
but I call a spade a spade, and ALWAYS have evidence to back it up.
I am putting forward information relative to the problems associated with
flying our craft. Some seem to believe that I have some hidden motives. Some
on the Challenger list seemed to think I have a hate on for the Challenger,
I never put anything out that was not true, that I did not have first hand
knowledge of.
There was nothing I put out on the Challenger list that I have not put out
on other lists, only TWO people have ever complained, or attacked me for it.
Both Challenger dealers!
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Alcohol in your fuel? |
Ralph, Dave, and all,
I think frequent flying is the reason ethanol fuels have not caused any
corrosion problems in Ralph's engines. Ralph's love for playing superman
over the frozen lakes all thru Winter are good for Ralph *and* his engine.
I bet it's those engines that sit still from Nov thru Apr that suffer.
-Ben Ransom
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Ralph H Burlingame wrote:
> ethanol-free gas may not sell as well. I wonder about the water content
> in this and with my good fortune, I choose to keep using the ethanol. We
> have had engines apart after 300 hrs and they look clean using
> synthetics. This is the first I've heard about the warning from Rotax.
> Now I'm not sure what to do.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original FireStar, 350 hrs on 377 using ethanol
>
>
> >Also, the alcohol competes directly with the lubrication, and
> >depending on
> >your oil's ability to combat such, could cause engine damage.
> engine failure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gas/oil in suspension |
Ralph H Burlingame wrote:
>
>
> Dave has prompted another question about the mixed oil that sits in your
> tank between flights. Does the oil mixture that sits for a month or so
> remain in suspension in equal amounts, or do they separate?
>
The oil is in solution, not suspension. Therefore it will not settle
out.
--
***********************************************
* Bill Weber * Keep *
* Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
* Simi Valley, CA * side up *
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loveman David" <ultralightnews(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gas/oil in suspension |
The biggest problem with left in a tank or carb for a month is evaporation
of octane in the tank. Octane keeps the fuel from firing, too soon, which
stops detonation. A fuel lacking the proper octane could lead to a hole in
the top of your piston.
Left in a carb the fuel evaporates and leaving the oil which tends to turn
to sludge and which plugs jets.
> --
> ***********************************************
> * Bill Weber * Keep *
> * Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
> * Simi Valley, CA * side up *
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dave Loveman
I would like to invite you to drop in and browse at
http://www.ultralightnews.com
Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
Hi Gang
I'd like to get some straight scoop on speeds. The literature I have either
doesn't address some of the speeds or there is more than one value published.
1. Is Vne 96 mph,100 mph, or some other number?
2. What is max structural cruising speed (Vno)?
3. What is max flap extended speed (Vfe)?
Many thanks
Bill George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
>
>Hey guys: Please don't tell me I'm the only one who's curiosity is
>peaked by this exchange. From what I've seen, Dave sounds very
>knowledgable, and presents it well.
>As in any large, active group, there will be personality ... sparks from
>time to time. Helps keep it interesting, and I think we can take pride in
>the way we ( usually ) rise above it.
Dave's been around for years and his personality is known. He gave me a
deal on the Hirth I fly with. I was surprised to see him appear on this list
as he once questioned me about flying on an irrigation pipe so I assumed
that Kolbs did not rank high on his list of great aircraft. Dave has his
opinions and will fight for them with the tenacity of a pit bull. I read his
put down of the Hirths so I joined the Challenger group to find out more.
Only bad things I could find were of people not knowing how to fix their
machines or unrelated problems like water in the gas or running the gearbox
without oil. This was from people with a lot of Hirth experience. Hirth and
Rotax are different and should be treated differently. Check this months
Sport pilot for more stuff on the Hirth. ..... But I digress
Welcome to the list Dave. Offer your experience when we need it or
constructive criticism when required. We take it personally if you put down
Kolbs or build up another inferior aircraft [Which would be anything without
the Kolb name on it ;] ]. We all get flamed once in awhile [sometimes
without our knowledge] but we try to keep it clean and no hard feelings.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | oil in float bowl |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Thanks Ben,
I do feel a little like superman when I can leap tall trees. This must be
what causes the arrogance that I see in some of us. On the serious side,
I keep all my fuel sealed in plastic gas cans to keep the moisture out. I
also seal the gas cap with a piece of duct tape when it's in the garage.
I have to remember to remove it before flight.
Dave L. talked about leaving fuel in the float bowl will cause gum and
varnish to build up. This is something I never gave much thought to until
now. Maybe this
is what is causing the initial EGT to be high. The initial fuel/oil mix
has a lower ratio and after the first half hour of flight, the fuel has
wiped clean the residual oil left from the previous flight and then
becomes more of a 50:1 mix. How many of you guys empty the float bowl
after every flight? Maybe this is something I should start doing?
I brought the plane out to the field this morning thinking it might be a
good day to fly (forecasted winds, 12mph). Got out there and the winds
picked up and were gusting up to 25mph. It was a direct crosswind. My
buddy flew in and landed that Original FireStar in that wind. This guy is
some FireStar pilot. I decided that it would be too bumpy to fly, so
didn't even set it up. Am I turning into a wimp or what?
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
>I think frequent flying is the reason ethanol fuels have not caused
>any
>corrosion problems in Ralph's engines. Ralph's love for playing
>superman
>over the frozen lakes all thru Winter are good for Ralph *and* his
>engine.
>I bet it's those engines that sit still from Nov thru Apr that suffer.
>
>-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
George and all,
>I'd like to get some straight scoop on speeds. The literature I have either
>doesn't address some of the speeds or there is more than one value published.
>
>1. Is Vne 96 mph,100 mph, or some other number?
>2. What is max structural cruising speed (Vno)?
>3. What is max flap extended speed (Vfe)?
Kolb Aircraft, Inc. Mark III (poop sheet)
Top Speed (582) - 80 mph
(618) - >85 mph
(912) - >90 mph
Cruise Speed (582) - 75 mph
(618) - 80 mph
(902) - 85 mph
Vne - 100 mph
Stall Speed (solo & dirty I guess) - 30 mph
Flaps decrease stall speed by 4-5 mph
The problem is these speeds are accurate and most ASI's are not. An
excerpt from the manual says... "With this set-up (unconnected static
port) you stall the airplane and note what speed the ASI is registering:
now you know what your reference stall speed is. If it indicates 30 mph,
35 mph or 40 mph is not as important as the fact that you now know what the
indicated stall speed is."
It goes on to say a "proper" static source connected to the ASI will give a
more accurate reading. I have yet to find that "proper" place yet for my
ASI. It reads 10 miles high on the lower range and 15 miles high on the
upper end. My plane flies FAAAAAST!
My point is that hardly anyone's ASI is accurate, so you kind of have to
work out your own set of V speeds according to the error. For instance, I
stall at 45 clean and 43 half flaps... add about 3 mph for a passenger. My
lift off speed is 50 mph. Short field approach speed is 55 mph. Best
angle of climb (Vx) is 60. Best rate of climb (Vy), Maximum glide speed,
Normal approach speed, Pattern speed, and Power out appraoch speed are all
65 mph. You see I like 65 mph... Cruise (Vno) is 70-85 mph. Vne speed is
110 mph.
Another except from the Kolb manuel says (in big bold letters), "More
important than all else - keep up your airspeed". I put a big red slash at
my pattern and most other speeds (65 mph) and I also put another big red
slash at 5 mph over my stall speed - 50 mph. That speed is my never fly
slower than solo (Vnfsts) speed.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MK-3 speeds? |
Thanks for the very complete response.
>>For instance, Istall at 45 clean and 43 half flaps... add about 3 mph for a
passenger. My
lift off speed is 50 mph. Short field approach speed is 55 mph. Best
angle of climb (Vx) is 60. Best rate of climb (Vy), Maximum glide speed,
Normal approach speed, Pattern speed, and Power out approach speed are all
65 mph. You see I like 65 mph... Cruise (Vno) is 70-85 mph. Vne speed is
110 mph.<<
Are the above speeds off your ASI or are they corrected for your known error?
Also, what about Vfe (max speed with flaps extended)?
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan kegebein" <kegg22(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: Nothin to do with kolb but please take a look just might |
be somethin..
>Received: from 216.176.146.98 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>X-Originating-IP: [216.176.146.98]
>From: "Amanda Tanksley" <yours_truely14(at)hotmail.com>
>To: Rooney67(at)yahoo.com, pate421018(at)aol.com, dadlow(at)netnitco.net,
KATHLEEN_A_HEATH(at)email.whirlpool.com, jessenoe(at)yahoo.com,
Lintner1(at)netnitco.com, tanksley(at)csinet.net, dubbsie(at)netnitco.net,
jamie_moss(at)hotmail.com, toot1(at)netnitco.net,
Paula_S_Wright(at)email.whirlpool.com, Kegg22(at)hotmail.com,
Atwoodeye(at)aol.com
>Subject: Fwd: Re: Fw: this is real, please do it!!
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:51:01 GMT
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:41:42 -0800 (PST)
>From: Nancy Morgan <nancym1021(at)yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Fw: this is real, please do it!!
>To: glen d hammons , Tom Bear ,
> John Morgan ,
> "JeffandKathy" Rose ,
> Cory Shoffner , Denny Smeaton
>,
> Amanda Tanksley ,
> Lori Dubbs ,
> JEFF ftwaynejeffooo ,
> Roy Morgan , beth bracken ,
> Brian Davis
>
>
>---glen d hammons wrote:
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christine Curtis <stardust_26(at)hotmail.com>
>> To: ArGiddens(at)aol.com ; Snuggles01(at)juno.com
>> ; brh7240(at)prin.edu ;
>> Benbayard(at)usa.net ; Romario5(at)hotmail.com
>> ; EAA0707(at)prin.edu ;
>> ejw6801(at)prin.edu ; mbm9788(at)prin.edu
>;
>> Sam498(at)aol.com ; bronwyncorry(at)yahoo.com
>> ; hedycurtis(at)hotmail.com
>;
>> Dpenick(at)wellesley.edu ;
>david.traynor(at)student.oc.edu
>> ; BCDCOLLE(at)swbell.net
>;
>> vigor(at)mindspring.com ; MLYFrances(at)aol.com
>> ; Eking22698(at)aol.com ;
>> conanbob(at)hotmail.com ; senate679(at)yahoo.com
>> ; raalaw(at)gateway.net ;
>> Jiffyp1014(at)aol.com ; Jennijane5(at)aol.com
>> ; Knightslair(at)hotmail.com
>;
>> mr_lane(at)hotmail.com ; lady_bug(at)juno.com
>> ; Katydid138(at)aol.com ;
>> KAB7154(at)prin.edu ; TankG0608(at)aol.com
>;
>> divergirl_15(at)hotmail.com ;
Laurens42(at)aol.com
>> ; HesMyLyte(at)aol.com ;
>> GeorgeSchultz(at)msn.com ; LindsMad(at)aol.com
>> ; Varmecky(at)msn.com ;
>supremisis(at)aol.com
>> ; jon_the_pxpx(at)yahoo.com
;
>> Curly1983(at)aol.com ; mek9999(at)prin.edu
>;
>> mcschmit(at)flash.net ; GCountry(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net
>> ; MAA7785(at)prin.edu ;
>> dee(at)theshop.net ; moanders(at)indiana.edu
>> ; enshelby(at)hotmail.com ;
>> SirXythius(at)aol.com ; reidith(at)hotmail.com
>> ; SCB2266(at)prin.edu ;
>aphrus(at)aol.com
>> ; Tpredator(at)aol.com
>> Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:00 PM
>> Subject: Fwd: this is real, please do it!!
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>Received: from 155.106.10.234 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>> >>X-Originating-IP: [155.106.10.234]
>> >>From: "Catherine Curtis" <hedycurtis(at)hotmail.com>
>> >>To: aaron(at)principia.edu, jonsmileyjanis(at)hotmail.com,
>> >kingscastle(at)hotmail.com, stardust_26(at)hotmail.com,
>ajvanbus(at)mtholyoke.edu
>> >>Subject: Fwd: this is real, please do it!!
>> >>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:17:44 PST
>> >>Mime-Version: 1.0
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi guys,
>> >> I never do this type of thing but my boss sent this to
>> >>>me
>> >>>>and he checked it out personally and here is what he had to say
>about
>> >>it.
>> >>
February 14, 1999 - March 07, 1999
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bh