LycomingEngines-Archive.digest.vol-ad
November 07, 2011 - October 21, 2013
year to year.
>
> There's just no substitute for seeing cylinder conditions first
hand. A borescope lets you better identify the cause of engine
compression problems. For example, a borescope will instantly reveal
corrosion, and the location of the corrosion (top vs bottom) will help
you identify its cause. Cylinder wall scoring, impossible to detect any
other way, is instantly visible with a borescope. The image capture
capability makes it easy to email images to an experienced mechanic for
a second opinion, and even a pilot can gain valuable insight by
comparing image changes over time.
>
> Borescopes can be invaluable at other times as well Have you ever
dropped a screw in the belly of an aircraft? You can't leave it there --
it could jam a control during flight. WIthout a borescope you might face
hours of searching with a magnet; with a borescope you can likely find
the part in minutes -- I have, on several occasions.
>
> In my opinion, every aircraft owner should have at least an
inexpensive borescope on hand at all times. It's a very cheap way to
stay on top of internal engine conditions, and you'll find other uses
for it as well.
>
> Why perform the equivalent of seeing-eye dog maintenance when you
can have a high quality visual record of what's going on in your engine,
at a very low cost?
>
> -mel
>
> On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:39 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>> Ralph:
>>
>> Two questions:
>> 1 - What do you think you have done that justifies a bore scope
inspection?
>> 2 - What do you expect to find?
>>
>> The reason for these questions are: Your time and money could be
better spent with standard diagnostic (common sense) testing. I am not
a fan of bore scopes because they REALLY do not show anything that
either the pilot knows they did wrong or they just repeat what common
sense testing already shows. When a problem show itself in such a way
as to be noticed in flying, a bore scope ONLY confirms what you already
KNOW. Seriously I have never seen anything that a bore scope shows that
was not diagnosed previously without it. Better to use the $500 on a
new cylinder than on a bore scope.
>> Bore Scopes are better for a Colonoscopy.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Ralph wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking into the purchase of a video Borescope. (Cylinder and
general inspection) Does anyone on the list have direct experience with
any of the lower cost devices <$500?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ralph Hoover
>> RV7A
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> nes-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com> |
Bought one from Costco a month or so ago. Works great! Records stills and video,
10mm head easily fits through spark plug hole. Comes with a flexible extension
to double the reach (to about 4'). The video head detaches from the handle/probe
and works wireless. Worked great in resolving the rust/debris issues
in the old VW. WISH I had it when I was chasing the fuel leak in the Cardinal
wing tank!
Best part... $150.
Andrew
>Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Borescope
>From: Ralph <hooverra(at)comcast.net>
>I'm looking into the purchase of a video Borescope. (Cylinder and general inspection)
>Does anyone on the list have direct experience with any of the lower cost
>devices <$500?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Mel:
I am Old School... And proud of it ;-) I won't give away my age.
Every generation has to reinvent the wheel and lay claim to it.
In your example: For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by
listening to compression sounds, which I would consider to be an important
preventative maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you great data
immediately.
Here is Old School Logic:
- If the corrosion is that light a good run will remove it.
- If the corrosion is that heavy you will see it with that Old School
Grain of Wheat bulb.
- If the compression tests were GOOD why would one look inside with a
bore scope?
- If the compression tests were BAD... You would have low compression.
Air escaping into the sump area - AND - Then you would be hearing it.
Or escaping out the exhaust pipe - AND - Then you would be hearing it. Or
escaping out the Carb - AND - Then you would be hearing it. SOoooo why
would you need a bore scope? You can see the problem on the compression
gauge and/or hear it.
- Then what would your next action be? - - -
- WHOOPS... I guess you would be tearing down the cylinder... No help
from the bore scope here. Just another proof of the obvious.
- And, if there was corrosion - that could be found out with the Old
School - Grain of Wheat Bulb... LED's are just not right for all jobs.
Cost... Less than $3 for bulb, wire and adjustable power supply. My ideas
- - - - old yes, but not contrite. Are what got us to where WE are today.
I know you were amazed at what McGiver could do with a bobby pin and a
book of matches. If you can't relate to Mcgiver maybe the 'A' Team
impressed you.
What I do like about a bore scope - AND - Wish I had one last Wednesday -
As I said: Is to LQQK up under the dash. Will I spend $150 for one?
Nope... But I will ask Santa.
Barry :-)
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
> Barry,
>
> We can agree to disagree, but my practice is in line with manufacturers'
> recommendations. Your arguments seem a little contrived, what with
> old-school widgets such as grain-of-wheat bulbs and tiny mirrors.
>
> I never said a borescope is a panacea; you should use all the tools at
> your disposal, selecting the best one for a particular task. A borescope
> will often be the fastest way to get information about the inside of the
> cylinder. For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by listening to
> compression sounds, which I would consider to be an important preventative
> maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you great data immediately.
>
> Why not just get a borescope and take advantage of modern technology at a
> great price? Perhaps you'll "tare" down fewer engines ;)
>
> -mel
>
> On Nov 7, 2011, at 9:34 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Mel:
>
> In aviation it always comes down to opinions. You surely have the right
> to disagree, but, I as an A&P also have never had a problem that a bore
> scope solved.
> Does anyone do a bore scope after each flight?
> That is the only way a bore scope would qualify as
> a Preventive Maintenance device.
> So something has had to happen to bring up the need to do a bore scope.
> What would a bore scope do that investigative research could not do?
> Show scratches on the cylinder walls? OK - Then what... You tare the
> cylinder down.
> Just putting a Grain of Wheat Light Bulb on a variable power supply and
> dropping it down the spark plug hole would show the same thing.
> OK - Then what... You tare the cylinder down.
> So, you can't see the valves. Well yes you can with a simple mirror on a
> wand. What is the bore scope going to show... Well, yes, much better
> picture than a 3/8" Dia. mirror.
> But, why are you looking at the valves - Maybe because they are leaking!
> A compression check will show that also. OK - Then what.. You tare the
> cylinder down.
> A bore scope will not show valve wobble... SB388. A bit of time and a
> good dial indicator and fixture will do that better than a bore scope.
> The only good argument for getting a bore scope would be as Ralph says...
> "General Inspection" - Yes, there sure are areas that are just a royal
> PITA to see. Inside fuel tanks, up under <--- I just love that oxymoron -
> the dash.
>
> Now what I did not realize is the drastic price drop - I would NEVER pay
> $500... But for LQQKing up under (LOL) the dash or in the tail cone... Now
> there you have a argument that *holds water.* <--- Tong in cheek.
>
> So, Ralph... If you can get a real good camera (hate the term bore scope)
> at a real good price - - - Go for it. Just don't expect it to solve
> problems inside the engine.
>
>
> Barry
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Mel Beckman wrote:
>
>> Barry,
>>
>> As an A&P, I could not disagree more. First, the price-point of $500 is
>> high -- even high quality video borescopes today cost well under half that.
>> I've seen very good units for under $150. For example, Fry Electronics
>> sells one for $120 with excellent depth of field, illumination, and
>> resolution, and includes on-board mirror, magnet, and hook attachments.
>> Yes, you can spend big bucks on units with integrated laser measurement
>> tools, wireless video screens, and motion recording capability, but you
>> don't need that for aircraft engine work.
>>
>> Although you can infer internal cylinder condition from other
>> measurements, such as engine compression sounds, a visual inspection is
>> still valuable and, I believe, highly recommended on a routine basis.
>> Engine manufacturers such as Lycoming recommend borescoping cylinders on
>> ALL its engines every 100 hours, or at least annually. And engine service
>> bulletins offer useful guidance in analyzing borescope imagery (e.g.
>> http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB03-3.pdf). Most video borescopes today
>> have image capture capabilities that let you compare suspect areas year to
>> year.
>>
>> There's just no substitute for seeing cylinder conditions first hand. A
>> borescope lets you better identify the cause of engine compression
>> problems. For example, a borescope will instantly reveal corrosion, and the
>> location of the corrosion (top vs bottom) will help you identify its cause.
>> Cylinder wall scoring, impossible to detect any other way, is instantly
>> visible with a borescope. The image capture capability makes it easy to
>> email images to an experienced mechanic for a second opinion, and even a
>> pilot can gain valuable insight by comparing image changes over time.
>>
>> Borescopes can be invaluable at other times as well Have you ever
>> dropped a screw in the belly of an aircraft? You can't leave it there -- it
>> could jam a control during flight. WIthout a borescope you might face hours
>> of searching with a magnet; with a borescope you can likely find the part
>> in minutes -- I have, on several occasions.
>>
>> In my opinion, every aircraft owner should have at least an inexpensive
>> borescope on hand at all times. It's a very cheap way to stay on top of
>> internal engine conditions, and you'll find other uses for it as well.
>>
>> Why perform the equivalent of seeing-eye dog maintenance when you can
>> have a high quality visual record of what's going on in your engine, at a
>> very low cost?
>>
>> -mel
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:39 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>
>> Ralph:
>>
>> Two questions:
>> 1 - What do you think you have done that justifies a bore scope
>> inspection?
>> 2 - What do you expect to find?
>>
>> The reason for these questions are: Your time and money could be better
>> spent with standard diagnostic (common sense) testing. I am not a fan of
>> bore scopes because they REALLY do not show anything that either the pilot
>> knows they did wrong or they just repeat what common sense
>> testing already shows. When a problem show itself in such a way as to be
>> noticed in flying, a bore scope ONLY confirms what you already KNOW.
>> Seriously I have never seen anything that a bore scope shows that was
>> not diagnosed previously without it. Better to use the $500 on a new
>> cylinder than on a bore scope.
>> Bore Scopes are better for a Colonoscopy.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Ralph wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking into the purchase of a video Borescope. (Cylinder and
>>> general inspection) Does anyone on the list have direct experience with any
>>> of the lower cost devices <$500?
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ralph Hoover
>>> RV7A
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ==========
>>> nes-List" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>> ==========
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> s-List <http://www.matronics.com/contributions-List>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com> |
Sigh. I'm in my 50's, but I've progressed with technology. Hopefully
Santa will be good to you ;)
-mel
On Nov 7, 2011, at 2:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Mel:
>
> I am Old School... And proud of it ;-) I won't give away my age.
>
> Every generation has to reinvent the wheel and lay claim to it.
>
> In your example: For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by
listening to compression sounds, which I would consider to be an
important preventative maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you
great data immediately.
>
> Here is Old School Logic:
> If the corrosion is that light a good run will remove it.
> If the corrosion is that heavy you will see it with that Old School
Grain of Wheat bulb.
> If the compression tests were GOOD why would one look inside with a
bore scope?
> If the compression tests were BAD... You would have low compression.
Air escaping into the sump area - AND - Then you would be hearing it.
Or escaping out the exhaust pipe - AND - Then you would be hearing it.
Or escaping out the Carb - AND - Then you would be hearing it. SOoooo
why would you need a bore scope? You can see the problem on the
compression gauge and/or hear it.
> Then what would your next action be? - - -
> WHOOPS... I guess you would be tearing down the cylinder... No help
from the bore scope here Just another proof of the obvious.
> And, if there was corrosion - that could be found out with the Old
School - Grain of Wheat Bulb... LED's are just not right for all jobs.
Cost... Less than $3 for bulb, wire and adjustable power supply. My
ideas - - - - old yes, but not contrite. Are what got us to where WE are
today. I know you were amazed at what McGiver could do with a bobby pin
and a book of matches. If you can't relate to Mcgiver maybe the 'A'
Team impressed you.
> What I do like about a bore scope - AND - Wish I had one last
Wednesday - As I said: Is to LQQK up under the dash. Will I spend $150
for one? Nope... But I will ask Santa.
>
> Barry :-)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
> Barry,
>
> We can agree to disagree, but my practice is in line with
manufacturers' recommendations. Your arguments seem a little contrived,
what with old-school widgets such as grain-of-wheat bulbs and tiny
mirrors.
>
> I never said a borescope is a panacea; you should use all the tools at
your disposal, selecting the best one for a particular task A borescope
will often be the fastest way to get information about the inside of the
cylinder. For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by listening
to compression sounds, which I would consider to be an important
preventative maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you great data
immediately.
>
> Why not just get a borescope and take advantage of modern technology
at a great price? Perhaps you'll "tare" down fewer engines ;)
>
> -mel
>
> On Nov 7, 2011, at 9:34 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>> Mel:
>>
>> In aviation it always comes down to opinions. You surely have the
right to disagree, but, I as an A&P also have never had a problem that a
bore scope solved.
>> Does anyone do a bore scope after each flight?
>> That is the only way a bore scope would qualify as a Preventive
Maintenance device.
>> So something has had to happen to bring up the need to do a bore
scope.
>> What would a bore scope do that investigative research could not do?
>> Show scratches on the cylinder walls? OK - Then what... You tare the
cylinder down.
>> Just putting a Grain of Wheat Light Bulb on a variable power supply
and dropping it down the spark plug hole would show the same thing.
>> OK - Then what... You tare the cylinder down.
>> So, you can't see the valves. Well yes you can with a simple mirror
on a wand. What is the bore scope going to show... Well, yes, much
better picture than a 3/8" Dia. mirror.
>> But, why are you looking at the valves - Maybe because they are
leaking!
>> A compression check will show that also. OK - Then what.. You tare
the cylinder down.
>> A bore scope will not show valve wobble... SB388. A bit of time and
a good dial indicator and fixture will do that better than a bore scope.
>> The only good argument for getting a bore scope would be as Ralph
says... "General Inspection" - Yes, there sure are areas that are just
a royal PITA to see. Inside fuel tanks, up under <--- I just love that
oxymoron - the dash.
>>
>> Now what I did not realize is the drastic price drop - I would NEVER
pay $500... But for LQQKing up under (LOL) the dash or in the tail
cone... Now there you have a argument that holds water. <--- Tong in
cheek.
>>
>> So, Ralph... If you can get a real good camera (hate the term bore
scope) at a real good price - - - Go for it. Just don't expect it to
solve problems inside the engine.
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Mel Beckman wrote:
>> Barry,
>>
>> As an A&P, I could not disagree more. First, the price-point of
$500 is high -- even high quality video borescopes today cost well under
half that. I've seen very good units for under $150. For example, Fry
Electronics sells one for $120 with excellent depth of field,
illumination, and resolution, and includes on-board mirror, magnet, and
hook attachments. Yes, you can spend big bucks on units with integrated
laser measurement tools, wireless video screens, and motion recording
capability, but you don't need that for aircraft engine work.
>>
>> Although you can infer internal cylinder condition from other
measurements, such as engine compression sounds, a visual inspection is
still valuable and, I believe, highly recommended on a routine basis.
Engine manufacturers such as Lycoming recommend borescoping cylinders on
ALL its engines every 100 hours, or at least annually. And engine
service bulletins offer useful guidance in analyzing borescope imagery
(e.g. http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB03-3.pdf). Most video borescopes
today have image capture capabilities that let you compare suspect areas
year to year.
>>
>> There's just no substitute for seeing cylinder conditions first
hand. A borescope lets you better identify the cause of engine
compression problems. For example, a borescope will instantly reveal
corrosion, and the location of the corrosion (top vs bottom) will help
you identify its cause. Cylinder wall scoring, impossible to detect any
other way, is instantly visible with a borescope. The image capture
capability makes it easy to email images to an experienced mechanic for
a second opinion, and even a pilot can gain valuable insight by
comparing image changes over time.
>>
>> Borescopes can be invaluable at other times as well Have you ever
dropped a screw in the belly of an aircraft? You can't leave it there --
it could jam a control during flight. WIthout a borescope you might face
hours of searching with a magnet; with a borescope you can likely find
the part in minutes -- I have, on several occasions.
>>
>> In my opinion, every aircraft owner should have at least an
inexpensive borescope on hand at all times. It's a very cheap way to
stay on top of internal engine conditions, and you'll find other uses
for it as well.
>>
>> Why perform the equivalent of seeing-eye dog maintenance when you
can have a high quality visual record of what's going on in your engine,
at a very low cost?
>>
>> -mel
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:39 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>
>>> Ralph:
>>>
>>> Two questions:
>>> 1 - What do you think you have done that justifies a bore scope
inspection?
>>> 2 - What do you expect to find?
>>>
>>> The reason for these questions are: Your time and money could be
better spent with standard diagnostic (common sense) testing. I am not
a fan of bore scopes because they REALLY do not show anything that
either the pilot knows they did wrong or they just repeat what common
sense testing already shows. When a problem show itself in such a way
as to be noticed in flying, a bore scope ONLY confirms what you already
KNOW. Seriously I have never seen anything that a bore scope shows that
was not diagnosed previously without it. Better to use the $500 on a
new cylinder than on a bore scope.
>>> Bore Scopes are better for a Colonoscopy.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Ralph wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm looking into the purchase of a video Borescope. (Cylinder and
general inspection) Does anyone on the list have direct experience with
any of the lower cost devices <$500?
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ralph Hoover
>>> RV7A
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ==========
>>> nes-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>> ==========
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Mel:
Yea, I do have more than a hand full of years on ya.
I'll LQQK at Coscos and see what they offer and ask Santa... Maybe even
sooner it is my birthday this month... A very famous national holiday.
Barry
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
> Sigh. I'm in my 50's, but I've progressed with technology. Hopefully Santa
> will be good to you ;)
>
> -mel
>
> On Nov 7, 2011, at 2:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Mel:
>
> I am Old School... And proud of it ;-) I won't give away my age.
>
> Every generation has to reinvent the wheel and lay claim to it.
>
> In your example: For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by
> listening to compression sounds, which I would consider to be an important
> preventative maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you great data
> immediately.
>
> Here is Old School Logic:
>
> - If the corrosion is that light a good run will remove it.
> - If the corrosion is that heavy you will see it with that Old School
> Grain of Wheat bulb.
> - If the compression tests were GOOD why would one look inside with a
> bore scope?
> - If the compression tests were BAD... You would have low
> compression. Air escaping into the sump area - AND - Then you would be
> hearing it. Or escaping out the exhaust pipe - AND - Then you would be
> hearing it. Or escaping out the Carb - AND - Then you would be hearing
> it. SOoooo why would you need a bore scope? You can see the problem on
> the compression gauge and/or hear it.
> - Then what would your next action be? - - -
> - WHOOPS... I guess you would be tearing down the cylinder... No help
> from the bore scope here Just another proof of the obvious.
> - And, if there was corrosion - that could be found out with the Old
> School - Grain of Wheat Bulb... LED's are just not right for all jobs.
> Cost... Less than $3 for bulb, wire and adjustable power supply. My ideas
> - - - - old yes, but not contrite. Are what got us to where WE are today.
> I know you were amazed at what McGiver could do with a bobby pin and a
> book of matches. If you can't relate to Mcgiver maybe the 'A' Team
> impressed you.
>
> What I do like about a bore scope - AND - Wish I had one last Wednesday -
> As I said: Is to LQQK up under the dash. Will I spend $150 for one?
> Nope... But I will ask Santa.
>
> Barry :-)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Mel Beckman wrote:
>
>> Barry,
>>
>> We can agree to disagree, but my practice is in line with manufacturers'
>> recommendations. Your arguments seem a little contrived, what with
>> old-school widgets such as grain-of-wheat bulbs and tiny mirrors.
>>
>> I never said a borescope is a panacea; you should use all the tools at
>> your disposal, selecting the best one for a particular task A borescope
>> will often be the fastest way to get information about the inside of the
>> cylinder. For example, you can't detect corrosion reliably by listening to
>> compression sounds, which I would consider to be an important preventative
>> maintenance inspection. A borescope gives you great data immediately.
>>
>> Why not just get a borescope and take advantage of modern technology at a
>> great price? Perhaps you'll "tare" down fewer engines ;)
>>
>> -mel
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2011, at 9:34 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>
>> Mel:
>>
>> In aviation it always comes down to opinions. You surely have the right
>> to disagree, but, I as an A&P also have never had a problem that a bore
>> scope solved.
>> Does anyone do a bore scope after each flight?
>> That is the only way a bore scope would qualify as
>> a Preventive Maintenance device.
>> So something has had to happen to bring up the need to do a bore scope.
>> What would a bore scope do that investigative research could not do?
>> Show scratches on the cylinder walls? OK - Then what... You tare the
>> cylinder down.
>> Just putting a Grain of Wheat Light Bulb on a variable power supply and
>> dropping it down the spark plug hole would show the same thing.
>> OK - Then what... You tare the cylinder down.
>> So, you can't see the valves. Well yes you can with a simple mirror on a
>> wand. What is the bore scope going to show... Well, yes, much better
>> picture than a 3/8" Dia. mirror.
>> But, why are you looking at the valves - Maybe because they are leaking!
>> A compression check will show that also. OK - Then what.. You tare the
>> cylinder down.
>> A bore scope will not show valve wobble... SB388. A bit of time and a
>> good dial indicator and fixture will do that better than a bore scope.
>> The only good argument for getting a bore scope would be as Ralph says...
>> "General Inspection" - Yes, there sure are areas that are just a royal
>> PITA to see. Inside fuel tanks, up under <--- I just love that oxymoron -
>> the dash.
>>
>> Now what I did not realize is the drastic price drop - I would NEVER pay
>> $500... But for LQQKing up under (LOL) the dash or in the tail cone... Now
>> there you have a argument that *holds water.* <--- Tong in cheek.
>>
>> So, Ralph... If you can get a real good camera (hate the term bore scope)
>> at a real good price - - - Go for it. Just don't expect it to solve
>> problems inside the engine.
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Mel Beckman wrote:
>>
>>> Barry,
>>>
>>> As an A&P, I could not disagree more. First, the price-point of $500
>>> is high -- even high quality video borescopes today cost well under half
>>> that. I've seen very good units for under $150. For example, Fry
>>> Electronics sells one for $120 with excellent depth of field, illumination,
>>> and resolution, and includes on-board mirror, magnet, and hook attachments.
>>> Yes, you can spend big bucks on units with integrated laser measurement
>>> tools, wireless video screens, and motion recording capability, but you
>>> don't need that for aircraft engine work.
>>>
>>> Although you can infer internal cylinder condition from other
>>> measurements, such as engine compression sounds, a visual inspection is
>>> still valuable and, I believe, highly recommended on a routine basis.
>>> Engine manufacturers such as Lycoming recommend borescoping cylinders on
>>> ALL its engines every 100 hours, or at least annually. And engine service
>>> bulletins offer useful guidance in analyzing borescope imagery (e.g.
>>> http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB03-3.pdf). Most video borescopes today
>>> have image capture capabilities that let you compare suspect areas year to
>>> year.
>>>
>>> There's just no substitute for seeing cylinder conditions first hand.
>>> A borescope lets you better identify the cause of engine compression
>>> problems. For example, a borescope will instantly reveal corrosion, and the
>>> location of the corrosion (top vs bottom) will help you identify its cause.
>>> Cylinder wall scoring, impossible to detect any other way, is instantly
>>> visible with a borescope. The image capture capability makes it easy to
>>> email images to an experienced mechanic for a second opinion, and even a
>>> pilot can gain valuable insight by comparing image changes over time.
>>>
>>> Borescopes can be invaluable at other times as well Have you ever
>>> dropped a screw in the belly of an aircraft? You can't leave it there -- it
>>> could jam a control during flight. WIthout a borescope you might face hours
>>> of searching with a magnet; with a borescope you can likely find the part
>>> in minutes -- I have, on several occasions.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, every aircraft owner should have at least an
>>> inexpensive borescope on hand at all times. It's a very cheap way to stay
>>> on top of internal engine conditions, and you'll find other uses for it as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Why perform the equivalent of seeing-eye dog maintenance when you can
>>> have a high quality visual record of what's going on in your engine, at a
>>> very low cost?
>>>
>>> -mel
>>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:39 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>>>
>>> Ralph:
>>>
>>> Two questions:
>>> 1 - What do you think you have done that justifies a bore scope
>>> inspection?
>>> 2 - What do you expect to find?
>>>
>>> The reason for these questions are: Your time and money could be better
>>> spent with standard diagnostic (common sense) testing. I am not a fan of
>>> bore scopes because they REALLY do not show anything that either the pilot
>>> knows they did wrong or they just repeat what common sense
>>> testing already shows. When a problem show itself in such a way as to be
>>> noticed in flying, a bore scope ONLY confirms what you already KNOW.
>>> Seriously I have never seen anything that a bore scope shows that was
>>> not diagnosed previously without it. Better to use the $500 on a new
>>> cylinder than on a bore scope.
>>> Bore Scopes are better for a Colonoscopy.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Ralph wrote:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking into the purchase of a video Borescope. (Cylinder and
>>>> general inspection) Does anyone on the list have direct experience with any
>>>> of the lower cost devices <$500?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph Hoover
>>>> RV7A
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>> ==========
>>>> nes-List" target="_blank">
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> s-List <http://www.matronics.com/contributions-List>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> s-List <http://www.matronics.com/contributions-List>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-Listtp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
List
I helped install a Cont. IO-360 a year or two ago and the warranty Required a borescope
inspection at 100 hr.
just my $.02 worth.
Also on a prebuy inspection of an engine that had been sitting a while we discovered
it had serious rust above where the rings were at rest on all cylinders.
It saved pulling a cylinder which we did not have time to do
Bobby
Jacksonville, Fl.
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
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List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for over 21 years (yeah, I really
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and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining
the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List
Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
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It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these aspects of Matronics List services.
Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the
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List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Your Contributions
alone keep these services up and running.
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | The Value of a Forum... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Arn't the Lists worth at
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Come to think of it, you do...
Won't you take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists?
Please make a Contribution today at:
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Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors |
Published Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the Lists
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Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions Down By 20%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 20%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising
income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
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I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
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All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
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modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution Today... |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser and the List of Contributors
is quickly approching. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported
and all of the operational costs are provided for by your Contributions during
this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left - Still Way Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
few weeks I have received some really nice comments from members on what the
Lists have meant to them. I have included some of them below. Please read over
the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists and the support
and camaraderie you have found here.
We are still way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really
want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it
take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep
the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that
keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I get a lot of useful information and satisfaction from belonging to
your groups. Somehow you foster a great sense of community without
the baggage that accompanies other lists.
Dave S.
We do appreciate you running the lists spam and advertising free.
Jeff P.
I am celebrating my first flight day and you and the lists deserve
a thanks since without it my build would have taken twice as long.
Chris L.
I enjoy the list. Have my morning coffee with it!
Buddy M.
Your lists are the best investment of my time and money, bar none,
when it comes to interfacing with my fellow amateur builders.
Owen B.
Keep it going!! Thanks for taking over.
Wallace J.
I enjoy the Pietenpol List a lot.
Malcolm Z.
Thanks for your great site! As a new CJ-6 owner, your web site is an
invaluable resource.
Ken B.
Great informational source.
Fred S.
Thanks for doing this!
Lance G.
Thank you for the service i do enjoy the many hours I use on line with
the banter/ serious technical items.
Noel G.
Thanks for the years of builder support.
Roy H.
Great forum!
Roger C.
Thank you VERY MUCH, Matt, for carrying on with this great service.
The "Europa" community really appreciates it. All the best, Svein - now
celebrating 10 years as a subscriber, I think!
Svein J.
Matt, I'm building a much nicer and safer airplane because of your efforts.
Robert D.
21 years for you 9 years for me on the Zenith lists. Could not imagine
building and flying without Matronics.
Brian U.
Thanks for ALL the hard work and time you put into maintaining these
forums. As an EAA Tech counselor I recommend them often.
Paul M.
This Pietenpol list is a huge part of the motivation that keeps me working
on my project. This has been a great place for meeting like minded folks
and getting help for the difficult parts.
Thomas S.
Thanks for the excellent service Matt.
Frank S.
Matt, I'm a Sonex building, but I have to say that the Piet group is without
a doubt the most interesting.
Ken M.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the Piet List. This is one of my sanity
lifelines!
Daniel H.
Your site has provided us over the years with excellent connections to others
for advice. Good job!
Bob M.
Kolb List is my #1 source!
Henry V.
Matt, you do a great job with this site. I've been with it since the
beginning!
John M.
I am very grateful for all of your excellent work on the List.
Arthur L.
Thank you for the service you provide us all!
Nicholas C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my birthday again, 48
of them, in fact! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of those really
nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same.
Below are a few more of the nice comments from Listers I've received this year.
Please read them over and see if you don't agree.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few More List Member Comments =====================
I never would have ended up with the great flying airplane I have without
the help of people on the Pietenpol list. Thanks for giving us the medium
to communicate our questions, tips and suggestions.
Matt P.
Thanks for the hard work and maintaining the site commercial free. Good
luck for the future and this site has been a source of great friendship.
Peter B.
It is a great resource.
Jim G.
Thanks so much for your continuing support of the homebuilt community.
Gerald A.
You are doing an outstanding job running the list's. Keep it going.
Bill V.
Thanks for keeping this valuable information source going. Best of all
the forums.
George A.
Another Great year on the RV-List!
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Still the best source of information (& opinion) for builders on a wide
range of issues.
Martin H.
Matt, thanks for hosting and maintaining the lists!
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It is a great resource.
Bryan R.
Thanks for your continuing interest in Van's RV8 kitplanes.
Peter C.
I'm no longer building or flying but like to keep in touch with the current
generation of builders. Best wishes to a great list system.
Gerry C.
A great list that is most useful for builders.
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Thanks for this wonderful tool!
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Thanks for a great service to the experimental aviation community.
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Great topics and loads of useful info keep the subject matter relevant.
George H.
Thanks for keeping this going.
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Great facility and well managed.
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Thanks for a great service.
John D.
Thank you for you time and efforts they have made Aviation a better
place for everyone.
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I still enjoy getting the list in the morning.
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You have probably saved a few necks over the years.
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Thank you for being there.
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You perform a great service.
Bruce M.
Thank you for providing this invaluable resource.
William D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Hardware Failure - Matronics Web Servers Currently |
Offline
failure and is currently not available. Replacement hardware has been ordered
and should arrive on Tuesday 12/6/2011. All services should be restored
shortly there after.
During the outage, the Matronics Forums, Wiki, and other web-based List services
will NOT be available.
However, during the outage, all normal EMAIL based sevices WILL be available so
you may continue to post messages to the various lists without an issue.
I am so sorry for any inconvenience this web server outage has caused...
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Services Restored! |
Dear Listers,
web services have been fully restored including the Web Forums, List Browse,
Archive Search, Wiki, and AeroElectric web sites. It was quite an ordeal getting
the replacement boards for the server, but things went back together tonight
and are up and running nicely. The first company I ordered the boards from
originally called me a day later to say that, whoops, they really didn't have
them in stock after all... Fortunately, I was able to locate some through
a different source and had then over-nighted and they arrived today.
Thank you for your patience and consideration though the whole thing!
The List Contribution web site is also back on line for those wishing to make a
donation to the effort:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <goldpilot(at)AOL.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/07/11 |
So, what smoked the boards?
How many were fubar?
David
Via Hyperspace Star-streaming
-----Original message-----
From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server
Sent: Thu, Dec 8, 2011 08:00:14 GMT+00:00
Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/07/11
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=
2011-12-07&Archive=LycomingEngines
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2
011-12-07&Archive=LycomingEngines
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 12/07/11: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:14 PM - Matronics Web Services Restored! (Matt Dralle)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Matronics Web Services Restored!
Dear Listers,
Matronics
web services have been fully restored including the Web Forums, List Browse,
Archive Search, Wiki, and AeroElectric web sites. It was quite an ordeal
getting
the replacement boards for the server, but things went back together tonight
and are up and running nicely. The first company I ordered the boards from
originally called me a day later to say that, whoops, they really didn't
have
them in stock after all... Fortunately, I was able to locate some through
a different source and had then over-nighted and they arrived today.
Thank you for your patience and consideration though the whole thing!
The List Contribution web site is also back on line for those wishing to
make a
donation to the effort:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2011 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2011 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2011 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2011.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Long term storage |
Hi Guys
When one receives an engine with 'long term storage', are there any
maintenance items to do, prior to fitting/running
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <richardreynolds(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long term storage |
I think the requirements are covered in a service letter. Look on the
Lycoming web site or call them. It has been a long time, circa 2004.
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk VA
RV-6A - N841RV
On Apr 2, 2012, at 4:16 AM, JOHN TIPTON wrote:
> Hi Guys
>
> When one receives an engine with 'long term storage', are there any
maintenance items to do, prior to fitting/running
>
> John
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long term storage |
I had a engine that had been stored for 20 years
I heated up 8 quarts of oil and used a pressure pot to pump hot oil through t
he input from the oil cooler to flood the bearings and oil galleys. 575 hou
rs and going strong
Dave
On Apr 2, 2012, at 1:16 AM, "JOHN TIPTON" wrote:
> Hi Guys
>
> When one receives an engine with 'long term storage', are there any mainte
nance items to do, prior to fitting/running
>
> John
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Odd running cylinder - cured! |
Folks,
I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and SamJames
cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations with both EGT
and CHT spiking.
During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to remove,
clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clocked according
to the instructions.
This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire flight period.
Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow me to fix
it.
After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph viewing, consulting
experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1 and #2 injector
bodies along with their internal restrictors.
Problem moved to the #2 position.
Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very close to
each other.
I will still be performing one more test to check the system at different altitudes.
This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will show if I
should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum intake design.
An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed anything wrong
if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically. The data captured
by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some software jointly produced
with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kinds of information. Bottom
line, if you have this data available - review it...if you don't understand
what you're looking at - ask for help interpreting it. The Lycoming engine
design is antique - but still works...our addition of technology allows for
systematic diagnostics and improvements to keep it running.
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Very Good Ralph:
Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to know what
caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just replacing it
does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
Barry
On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Folks,
>
> I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
>
> As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and
> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations
> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
>
> During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to
> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clocked
> according to the instructions.
>
> This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire
> flight period.
>
> Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow me
> to fix it.
>
> After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1
> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
>
> Problem moved to the #2 position.
>
> Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
>
> Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very
> close to each other.
>
> I will still be performing one more test to check the system at different
> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will
> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum
> intake design.
>
> An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically.
> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some software
> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kinds
> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - review
> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics and
> improvements to keep it running.
>
> Ralph
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for me to inspect
them....
My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent test flight
to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when I got back either.
I'll post the inspection results shortly.
Great question!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: FLYaDIVE
>Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>
>Very Good Ralph:
>
>Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
>
>I have this affliction about Pull & ReplaceMechanics - I want to know what caused
the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop?Just replacing it does not
work for me. Let us know if you can.
>
>Barry
>
>
>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>Folks,
>
>I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
>
>As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and SamJames
cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations with both EGT
and CHT spiking.
>
>During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to remove,
clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clocked according
to the instructions.
>
>This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire flight
period.
>
>Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow me to fix
it.
>
>After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph viewing, consulting
experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1 and #2 injector
bodies along with their internal restrictors.
>
>Problem moved to the #2 position.
>
>Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
>
>Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very close
to each other.
>
>I will still be performing one more test to check the system at different altitudes.
This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will show if I
should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum intake design.
>
>An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed anything wrong
if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically. The data captured
by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some software jointly produced
with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kinds of information. Bottom
line, if you have this data available - review it...if you don't understand
what you're looking at - ask for help interpreting it. The Lycoming engine
design is antique - but still works...our addition of technology allows for systematic
diagnostics and improvements to keep it running.
>
>Ralph
>
>
>==========
>nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>==========
>http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>le, List Admin.
>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>==========
>
>
>__._,_.___
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post |
Start a New Topic
>Messages in this topic (1)
>Recent Activity:
>
>* New Members2
>
>Visit Your Group
>[Yahoo! Groups]
>Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use
>.
>
>__,_._,___
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm betting on
something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a scratch/nick
in the injector nozzle to seat area.
Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines?
I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure for
this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
Good Luck,
Barry
On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrot
e:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for me to
> inspect them....
> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent test
> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when I go
t
> back either.
> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
>
>
> Great question!
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: FLYaDIVE
> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
> >
> >Very Good Ralph:
> >
> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
> >
> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to know
> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
> >
> >Barry
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen
> wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
> >
> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and
> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations
> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
> >
> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to
> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clock
ed
> according to the instructions.
> >
> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire
> flight period.
> >
> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow m
e
> to fix it.
> >
> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1
> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
> >
> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
> >
> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
> >
> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very
> close to each other.
> >
> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at differen
t
> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will
> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum
> intake design.
> >
> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically
.
> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some softwa
re
> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kin
ds
> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - review
> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics and
> improvements to keep it running.
> >
> >Ralph
> >
> >
> >
> >==========
> >nes-List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> >==========
> >http://forums.matronics.com
> >==========
> >le, List Admin.
> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__._,_.___
> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
> >Messages in this topic (1)
> >Recent Activity:
> >
> >* New Members2
> >
> >Visit Your Group
> >[Yahoo! Groups]
> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest - Unsubscribe - Terms of Use
> >.
> >
> >__,_._,___
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
I'll do the white cloth - just in case anything falls out. I'm betting on the
scratches personally - I had taken it apart and cleaned the restrictor and line
earlier in my search - didn't remove the injector body though.
Haven't heard about lead deposits in primer lines - my injectors now balance to
within .1gph when I go Lean-of-Peak - so I'm inclined to dismiss that as a possibility...especially
with only 160 TTSN. If I need to take them apart again,
I'll remember the Hoppe's #9...Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:35 AM
>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>
>Ralph:
>
>If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm betting on
>something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a scratch/nick
>in the injector nozzle to seat area.
>
>Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines?
> I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure for
>this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Barry
>
>
>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>>
>> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
>> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for me to
>> inspect them....
>> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent test
>> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when I got
>> back either.
>> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Great question!
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: FLYaDIVE
>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>> >
>> >Very Good Ralph:
>> >
>> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
>> >
>> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to know
>> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
>> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
>> >
>> >Barry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen
>> wrote:
>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> >
>> >Folks,
>> >
>> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
>> >
>> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and
>> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations
>> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
>> >
>> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to
>> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clocked
>> according to the instructions.
>> >
>> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire
>> flight period.
>> >
>> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow me
>> to fix it.
>> >
>> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
>> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1
>> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
>> >
>> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
>> >
>> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
>> >
>> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very
>> close to each other.
>> >
>> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at different
>> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will
>> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum
>> intake design.
>> >
>> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
>> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically.
>> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some software
>> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kinds
>> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - review
>> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
>> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
>> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics and
>> improvements to keep it running.
>> >
>> >Ralph
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >==========
>> >nes-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> >==========
>> >http://forums.matronics.com
>> >==========
>> >le, List Admin.
>> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> >==========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >__._,_.___
>> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
>> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
>> >Messages in this topic (1)
>> >Recent Activity:
>> >
>> >* New Members2
>> >
>> >Visit Your Group
>> >[Yahoo! Groups]
>> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use
>> >.
>> >
>> >__,_._,___
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>===========
>===========
>===========
>===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
Scratches on the top of the nozzle where the restrictor sits. In fact the entire
top looked kinda mangled.
White cloth came out clean.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:48 AM
>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>
>I'll do the white cloth - just in case anything falls out. I'm betting on the
scratches personally - I had taken it apart and cleaned the restrictor and line
earlier in my search - didn't remove the injector body though.
>
>Haven't heard about lead deposits in primer lines - my injectors now balance to
within .1gph when I go Lean-of-Peak - so I'm inclined to dismiss that as a possibility...especially
with only 160 TTSN. If I need to take them apart again,
I'll remember the Hoppe's #9...Thanks!
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:35 AM
>>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>>
>>Ralph:
>>
>>If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm betting on
>>something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a scratch/nick
>>in the injector nozzle to seat area.
>>
>>Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines?
>> I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure for
>>this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
>>
>>Good Luck,
>>
>>Barry
>>
>>
>>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>>
>>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
>>> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for me to
>>> inspect them....
>>> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent test
>>> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when I got
>>> back either.
>>> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Great question!
>>>
>>>
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: FLYaDIVE
>>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
>>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>>> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>>> >
>>> >Very Good Ralph:
>>> >
>>> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
>>> >
>>> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to know
>>> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
>>> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
>>> >
>>> >Barry
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen
>>> wrote:
>>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>>> >
>>> >Folks,
>>> >
>>> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while now.
>>> >
>>> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and
>>> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power operations
>>> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
>>> >
>>> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided to
>>> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was clocked
>>> according to the instructions.
>>> >
>>> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire
>>> flight period.
>>> >
>>> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't allow me
>>> to fix it.
>>> >
>>> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
>>> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the #1
>>> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
>>> >
>>> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
>>> >
>>> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
>>> >
>>> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track very
>>> close to each other.
>>> >
>>> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at different
>>> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance will
>>> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the plenum
>>> intake design.
>>> >
>>> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
>>> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight graphically.
>>> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some software
>>> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all kinds
>>> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - review
>>> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
>>> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
>>> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics and
>>> improvements to keep it running.
>>> >
>>> >Ralph
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >==========
>>> >nes-List" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>>> >==========
>>> >http://forums.matronics.com
>>> >==========
>>> >le, List Admin.
>>> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> >==========
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >__._,_.___
>>> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
>>> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
>>> >Messages in this topic (1)
>>> >Recent Activity:
>>> >
>>> >* New Members2
>>> >
>>> >Visit Your Group
>>> >[Yahoo! Groups]
>>> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use
>>> >.
>>> >
>>> >__,_._,___
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>===========
>>===========
>>===========
>>===========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
| From: | James Quinn <jquinn3(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph - be mindful of the proper torque values for the injector bodies, it
is easy to over tighten and distort the shape, also injector bodies should
be installed and torqued with a light coat of engine oil on the threads.
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote
:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
>
> Scratches on the top of the nozzle where the restrictor sits. In fact th
e
> entire top looked kinda mangled.
>
> White cloth came out clean.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >Sent: May 1, 2012 10:48 AM
> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder -
> cured!
> >
> >I'll do the white cloth - just in case anything falls out. I'm betting
> on the scratches personally - I had taken it apart and cleaned the
> restrictor and line earlier in my search - didn't remove the injector bod
y
> though.
> >
> >Haven't heard about lead deposits in primer lines - my injectors now
> balance to within .1gph when I go Lean-of-Peak - so I'm inclined to dismi
ss
> that as a possibility...especially with only 160 TTSN. If I need to take
> them apart again, I'll remember the Hoppe's #9...Thanks!
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> >>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:35 AM
> >>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder
-
> cured!
> >>
> >>Ralph:
> >>
> >>If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm bettin
g
> on
> >>something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a
> scratch/nick
> >>in the injector nozzle to seat area.
> >>
> >>Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines
?
> >> I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure fo
r
> >>this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
> >>
> >>Good Luck,
> >>
> >>Barry
> >>
> >>
> >>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen >wrote:
> >>
> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
> >>> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for m
e
> to
> >>> inspect them....
> >>> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent
> test
> >>> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when
I
> got
> >>> back either.
> >>> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Great question!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >-----Original Message-----
> >>> >From: FLYaDIVE
> >>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
> >>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >>> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
> >>> >
> >>> >Very Good Ralph:
> >>> >
> >>> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
> >>> >
> >>> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to kn
ow
> >>> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
> >>> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
> >>> >
> >>> >Barry
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen >
> >>> wrote:
> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >>> >
> >>> >Folks,
> >>> >
> >>> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while
> now.
> >>> >
> >>> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, a
nd
> >>> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power
> operations
> >>> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
> >>> >
> >>> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided
> to
> >>> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was
> clocked
> >>> according to the instructions.
> >>> >
> >>> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the enti
re
> >>> flight period.
> >>> >
> >>> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't
> allow me
> >>> to fix it.
> >>> >
> >>> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
> >>> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped th
e
> #1
> >>> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
> >>> >
> >>> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
> >>> >
> >>> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
> >>> >
> >>> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track
> very
> >>> close to each other.
> >>> >
> >>> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at
> different
> >>> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance
> will
> >>> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the
> plenum
> >>> intake design.
> >>> >
> >>> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
> >>> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight
> graphically.
> >>> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some
> software
> >>> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all
> kinds
> >>> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - revie
w
> >>> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
> >>> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
> >>> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics
> and
> >>> improvements to keep it running.
> >>> >
> >>> >Ralph
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >==========
> >>> >nes-List" target="_blank">
> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> >>> >==========
> >>> >http://forums.matronics.com
> >>> >==========
> >>> >le, List Admin.
> >>> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >>> >==========
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >__._,_.___
> >>> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
> >>> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
> >>> >Messages in this topic (1)
> >>> >Recent Activity:
> >>> >
> >>> >* New Members2
> >>> >
> >>> >Visit Your Group
> >>> >[Yahoo! Groups]
> >>> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest - Unsubscribe - Terms of Use
> >>> >.
> >>> >
> >>> >__,_._,___
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
VERY GOOD RALPH!!!
It is always nice to know what caused the problem.
Best of luck,
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote
:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
>
> Scratches on the top of the nozzle where the restrictor sits. In fact th
e
> entire top looked kinda mangled.
>
> White cloth came out clean.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >Sent: May 1, 2012 10:48 AM
> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder -
> cured!
> >
> >I'll do the white cloth - just in case anything falls out. I'm betting
> on the scratches personally - I had taken it apart and cleaned the
> restrictor and line earlier in my search - didn't remove the injector bod
y
> though.
> >
> >Haven't heard about lead deposits in primer lines - my injectors now
> balance to within .1gph when I go Lean-of-Peak - so I'm inclined to dismi
ss
> that as a possibility...especially with only 160 TTSN. If I need to take
> them apart again, I'll remember the Hoppe's #9...Thanks!
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> >>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:35 AM
> >>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder
-
> cured!
> >>
> >>Ralph:
> >>
> >>If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm bettin
g
> on
> >>something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a
> scratch/nick
> >>in the injector nozzle to seat area.
> >>
> >>Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines
?
> >> I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure fo
r
> >>this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
> >>
> >>Good Luck,
> >>
> >>Barry
> >>
> >>
> >>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen >wrote:
> >>
> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
> >>> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for m
e
> to
> >>> inspect them....
> >>> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent
> test
> >>> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when
I
> got
> >>> back either.
> >>> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Great question!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >-----Original Message-----
> >>> >From: FLYaDIVE
> >>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
> >>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> >>> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
> >>> >
> >>> >Very Good Ralph:
> >>> >
> >>> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
> >>> >
> >>> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to kn
ow
> >>> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
> >>> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
> >>> >
> >>> >Barry
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen >
> >>> wrote:
> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >>> >
> >>> >Folks,
> >>> >
> >>> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while
> now.
> >>> >
> >>> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, a
nd
> >>> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power
> operations
> >>> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
> >>> >
> >>> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided
> to
> >>> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was
> clocked
> >>> according to the instructions.
> >>> >
> >>> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the enti
re
> >>> flight period.
> >>> >
> >>> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't
> allow me
> >>> to fix it.
> >>> >
> >>> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
> >>> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped th
e
> #1
> >>> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
> >>> >
> >>> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
> >>> >
> >>> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
> >>> >
> >>> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track
> very
> >>> close to each other.
> >>> >
> >>> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at
> different
> >>> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance
> will
> >>> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the
> plenum
> >>> intake design.
> >>> >
> >>> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
> >>> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight
> graphically.
> >>> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some
> software
> >>> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all
> kinds
> >>> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - revie
w
> >>> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
> >>> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
> >>> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics
> and
> >>> improvements to keep it running.
> >>> >
> >>> >Ralph
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >==========
> >>> >nes-List" target="_blank">
> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> >>> >==========
> >>> >http://forums.matronics.com
> >>> >==========
> >>> >le, List Admin.
> >>> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >>> >==========
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >__._,_.___
> >>> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
> >>> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
> >>> >Messages in this topic (1)
> >>> >Recent Activity:
> >>> >
> >>> >* New Members2
> >>> >
> >>> >Visit Your Group
> >>> >[Yahoo! Groups]
> >>> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest - Unsubscribe - Terms of Use
> >>> >.
> >>> >
> >>> >__,_._,___
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>===========
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder - cured! |
Good scoop - thanks!
-----Original Message-----
>From: James Quinn <jquinn3(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: May 8, 2012 5:47 PM
>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>
>Ralph - be mindful of the proper torque values for the injector bodies, it
>is easy to over tighten and distort the shape, also injector bodies should
>be installed and torqued with a light coat of engine oil on the threads.
>
>On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>> Scratches on the top of the nozzle where the restrictor sits. In fact the
>> entire top looked kinda mangled.
>>
>> White cloth came out clean.....
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 10:48 AM
>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> >Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder -
>> cured!
>> >
>> >I'll do the white cloth - just in case anything falls out. I'm betting
>> on the scratches personally - I had taken it apart and cleaned the
>> restrictor and line earlier in my search - didn't remove the injector body
>> though.
>> >
>> >Haven't heard about lead deposits in primer lines - my injectors now
>> balance to within .1gph when I go Lean-of-Peak - so I'm inclined to dismiss
>> that as a possibility...especially with only 160 TTSN. If I need to take
>> them apart again, I'll remember the Hoppe's #9...Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>> >>Sent: May 1, 2012 10:35 AM
>> >>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> >>Subject: Re: [lycoming] Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder -
>> cured!
>> >>
>> >>Ralph:
>> >>
>> >>If you would, do the disassembly over a clean white cloth. I'm betting
>> on
>> >>something like dirt <-- Which will be difficult to find. Or a
>> scratch/nick
>> >>in the injector nozzle to seat area.
>> >>
>> >>Are you familiar with the problem of lead fuel deposits in primer lines?
>> >> I'm wondering if that might be happening in the injector? The cure for
>> >>this is to soak the parts in HOPPE"S Gun Cleaning Solvent #9.
>> >>
>> >>Good Luck,
>> >>
>> >>Barry
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ralph E. Capen > >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> Disassembly and evaluation is on my list of things to do next.....
>> >>> The injector and restrictor are sitting on my workbench waiting for me
>> to
>> >>> inspect them....
>> >>> My prioirites at the time were focused on the fix and the subsequent
>> test
>> >>> flight to determine results - but I didn't throw the parts away when I
>> got
>> >>> back either.
>> >>> I'll post the inspection results shortly.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Great question!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>> >From: FLYaDIVE
>> >>> >Sent: May 1, 2012 9:48 AM
>> >>> >To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>> >>> >Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Odd running cylinder - cured!
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Very Good Ralph:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Have you taken apart the injector to find out what the cause is?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I have this affliction about Pull & Replace Mechanics - I want to know
>> >>> what caused the failure. Sort of like: Why did the fuse pop? Just
>> >>> replacing it does not work for me. Let us know if you can.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Barry
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Ralph E. Capen > >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Folks,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I have been chasing down an odd running cylinder for quite a while
>> now.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >As a reminder, RV6A, IO360B1F6 w/9.2:1 compression LASAR ignition, and
>> >>> SamJames cowl/plenum. The #1 would go lean during high power
>> operations
>> >>> with both EGT and CHT spiking.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >During my most recent continued airworthiness inspections, I decided
>> to
>> >>> remove, clean and replace the #1 injector body - making sure it was
>> clocked
>> >>> according to the instructions.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >This made the issue worse as it was now running lean during the entire
>> >>> flight period.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Removing and reclocking the injector made it better but wouldn't
>> allow me
>> >>> to fix it.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >After many e-mail exchanges with Airflow Performance, lots of graph
>> >>> viewing, consulting experts, and general headscratching; I swapped the
>> #1
>> >>> and #2 injector bodies along with their internal restrictors.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Problem moved to the #2 position.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Purchased and installed a new injector body to replace the #2 unit.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Now I have no more peaks - after four flights, all cylinders track
>> very
>> >>> close to each other.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I will still be performing one more test to check the system at
>> different
>> >>> altitudes. This test, suggested by the folks at Airflow Performance
>> will
>> >>> show if I should install turbo venting rails to compensate for the
>> plenum
>> >>> intake design.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >An item important to note is that I would probably not have noticed
>> >>> anything wrong if I wasn't reviewing my data from each flight
>> graphically.
>> >>> The data captured by my AFS3400EE - converted to graphs with some
>> software
>> >>> jointly produced with Mike Behnke allows for a detailed review of all
>> kinds
>> >>> of information. Bottom line, if you have this data available - review
>> >>> it...if you don't understand what you're looking at - ask for help
>> >>> interpreting it. The Lycoming engine design is antique - but still
>> >>> works...our addition of technology allows for systematic diagnostics
>> and
>> >>> improvements to keep it running.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Ralph
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >==========
>> >>> >nes-List" target="_blank">
>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
>> >>> >==========
>> >>> >http://forums.matronics.com
>> >>> >==========
>> >>> >le, List Admin.
>> >>> >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> >>> >==========
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >__._,_.___
>> >>> > Reply to sender | Reply to group |
>> >>> Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
>> >>> >Messages in this topic (1)
>> >>> >Recent Activity:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >* New Members2
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Visit Your Group
>> >>> >[Yahoo! Groups]
>> >>> >Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use
>> >>> >.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >__,_._,___
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>===========
>> >>===========
>> >>===========
>> >>===========
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>===========
>===========
>===========
>===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Converting an, O-320A1A to an O-320 A2B |
| From: | "gentryll" <gentryll(at)AOL.COM> |
I have a complete A1A with no logs. I also have an A2B logbook, data plate, cylinders,
and case. I would like to have the two put together to have a certified
A2B to install in a PA22/20. The only difference I see in the parts in the
Lycoming manual are "straight riser in oil sump and type-32 carb. What does
straight riser mean and how does that differ from the riser in the A1A. Is the
riser the oil tube from the sump to the pump. Will my A1A sump work in an A2B?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374411#374411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Prop strike - by a hangar door |
Here's my scenario:
We had a tornado at my local airport - looks like the sliding hangar door
was pushed in to the prop (MT 3 blade Hydraulic CS) of my plane. It was in
the hangar at the time - not running - just sitting there innocently in its
chocks. The first look -see didn't reveal any obvious damage - closer
inspection made a difference. I can see damage to the spinner and the lower
two blades wobble not so nicely as compared to the rock solid top one.
At a minimum, I'm thinking the prop gets rebuilt.
I'm concerned about impact damage to the front of the engine. What could
have been damaged? Would it be worth my while to have someone put a dial
indicator to the prop flange? What would be your suggestion to determine if
it needs to be torn apart and measured? I haven't tried rotating it through
yet - in case I could make things worse.
Full inspection tomorrow - this was just what came from the first look
through.
Your thoughts please,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop strike - by a hangar door |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
I'm guessing here since I can't see the damage or feel the engine. BUT! I
really doubt if there is any damage to the engine. The prop more than
likely adsorbed all the forces and saved the engine. What you have to do
now is check the T.I.R.
(Total Indicated Runout) of the prop flange. Check it in both
planes Horizontal and Vertical. Then go to the maintenance manual for what
is allowed. I do not remember but I think anything 0.007" and below is
good. You probably do not own a dial indicator so an A&P will have to be
brought in and he should have the equipment as well as know the
information. Make sure he has a manual for your engine & S/N.
Best of luck,
Barry
Kill a pigeon and feed the people.
Kill a deer and feed the people.
Kill a bear and feed the people.
Kill the people and save the earth.
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrot
e:
> Here=92s my scenario:****
>
> ** **
>
> We had a tornado at my local airport ' looks like the sliding hangar do
or
> was pushed in to the prop (MT 3 blade Hydraulic CS) of my plane. It was
in
> the hangar at the time ' not running ' just sitting there innocently
in its
> chocks. The first look 'see didn=92t reveal any obvious damage ' clo
ser
> inspection made a difference. I can see damage to the spinner and the
> lower two blades wobble not so nicely as compared to the rock solid top o
ne.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> At a minimum, I=92m thinking the prop gets rebuilt.****
>
> ** **
>
> I=92m concerned about impact damage to the front of the engine. What cou
ld
> have been damaged? Would it be worth my while to have someone put a dial
> indicator to the prop flange? What would be your suggestion to determine
> if it needs to be torn apart and measured? I haven=92t tried rotating it
> through yet ' in case I could make things worse.****
>
> ** **
>
> Full inspection tomorrow ' this was just what came from the first look
> through.****
>
> ** **
>
> Your thoughts please,****
>
> Ralph Capen****
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection in
Louisville Kentucky.
Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb and
caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting rod
failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons and
cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating something
wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10. I suspect
the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call or
email me.
My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the failure.
Thanks,
Jim Stone
502 235-3599
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Jim:
I don't think you have a case, Mr. Stone.
The KS bearing is an experimental bearing - An automotive bearing - That
you chose to use in an aviation engine.
The Oil Analysis - Which I feel is a total wast of time, money and energy -
Might have shown that there was a problem, but human nature always
overrules facts. And you did nothing with information/facts supplied well
in advance of the engine failure. No oil analysis can tell you when you
will have a failure all they report are the current facts.
Point of Fact: ALL Oil Analysis reports always have a C.Y.A. for the shop
in that 'More testing is required". They leave the judgement call up to
you.
Sorry Mr. Stone, but the judges ruling is insufficient information to
justify a case.
Next case!
Barry
On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
> jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
>
> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking
> for an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what
> caused the failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available
> for inspection in Louisville Kentucky.
>
> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine
> failures. My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>
> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp
> climb and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a
> connecting rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further
> incident.
>
> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods,
> pistons and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis
> indicating something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I
> didn't make 10. I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts
> to work harden and fail.
> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please
> call or email me.
>
> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of
> the failure.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Stone
> 502 235-3599
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing clearance
to crank shaft checked on assembly?
Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the oil
galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it did.
What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the failure
doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different causes.
In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane or
yourself.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>
> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>
> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb and
caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>
> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating something
wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10. I
suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>
> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Stone
> 502 235-3599
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List: Engine failure |
Jim,
I will visit my Lycoming expert friend JR next week and share your experience.
I will let you know what transpires.
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2012, at 8:27, Jim Stone wrote:
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Jim Stone
>
> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>
> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>
> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb and
caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>
> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating something
wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10. I
suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>
> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Stone
> 502 235-3599
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | IO-540 crankcase breather |
All,
I was going to use the same crankcase breather oil separator that I have on
the 8A http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/hboilbreather.php
but then I noted the IO-540 has a huge crankcase breather fitting for a 1"
inside diameter hose. The above separator uses 5/8" hose.
This separator works well on the IO-360 in the 8A. Is anyone using this on
a IO-540? Does the IO-540 really need a 1" breather hose?
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Dunno about the ACS separator, I just installed a Anti splat aero .com separ
ator on my IO360 and I'm pretty happy with it. Seems to be catching all the o
il. They make one for the 540, and I think unlike most of the vendors, have a
ctually done some R&D and dyno testing on the product alsohave a video on th
e development of it that's interesting.
No interest in the the product, just a happy customer.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:27 PM, "Carl Froehlich" w
rote:
> All,
>
> I was going to use the same crankcase breather oil separator that I have o
n the 8A http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/hboilbreather.php
> but then I noted the IO-540 has a huge crankcase breather fitting for a 1
=9D inside diameter hose. The above separator uses 5/8=9D hose.
>
> This separator works well on the IO-360 in the 8A. Is anyone using this o
n a IO-540? Does the IO-540 really need a 1=9D breather hose?
>
> Carl
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Rocket-List: Engine failure |
Glad you are OK, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:28 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Engine failure
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Jim Stone
I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking
for an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what
caused the failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for
inspection in Louisville Kentucky.
Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine
failures. My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb
and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a
connecting rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further
incident.
The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating
something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10.
I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and
fail.
If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of
the failure.
Thanks,
Jim Stone
502 235-3599
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 crankcase breather |
There are a lot of people who do not believe in the Air-Oil Separators.
They condense the water vapor in the vent line as well as the oil vapor,
both are then returned to the crankcase. The water is not good, when
mixed with the combustion products it leads to acid formation, not good
for the engine. On the other hand they do keep the belly clean!
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hi Frank
Not to hijack the thread, well I guess we are!
I gave this a lot of thought and discussed it with a couple of A&Ps. One of
them showed me two Bonanzas right there in the shop that return the oil.
Even bounced it off Mahlon here but I guess he missed it.
I think any water that collects and is returned will be boiled off and given
another shot at getting out as vapor assuming the oil temps are reasonably h
igh. The oil sees temps well above what is read on the gauge in normal ops a
nd the water should boil off and vent. Some may get returned by the separato
r but the cycle continues over and over. I put mine in a good warm area hopi
ng to reduce condensation.
I also took an oil sample at last change and installed the separator. I plan
to have it tested again next time and see if there is any change in the aci
ds or h2o.
Just my thoughts on it, and what I'm doing. I'd like to hear other opinions o
n this.
BTW I often saw water droplets on my dipstick when cold even before I instal
led the separator, and my oil runs right around 180-190. So far I have not n
oticed any increase or change in the moisture and my consumption is now almo
st nill. I'm still testing, but over 12 hours now and almost 1/2 qt. low. Be
fore I was losing a qt. in 8-10 hours on a fresh overhaul, so I know now it'
s kicking it out the vent and not burning it. I really think its just a poor
ly designed vent system and if done right we would not need to add oil all t
he time or install separators.
Thoughts?
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2012, at 9:50 PM, "Frank Stelwagon" w
rote:
> There are a lot of people who do not believe in the Air-Oil Separators. T
hey condense the water vapor in the vent line as well as the oil vapor, both
are then returned to the crankcase. The water is not good, when mixed with
the combustion products it leads to acid formation, not good for the engine
. On the other hand they do keep the belly clean!
>
> Frank
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Hey Tim,
Apparently rod bearings can "just fail" and have. The failure mode is a separation
of the metals or de-lamination. I know of at least one law suit that was
settled confidentially.
All parts were yellow tagged, replaced with new and the engine assembled with great
care by a career engine mechanic in a small shop. I think it was the bearing
because a well know engine shop has experienced a similar failure on an engine
he built,and asked if I had KS bearing. I do have pics if anyone would
like to see them.
Tim you sound very experienced, would you be interested in seeing the pics?
Jim
On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing clearance
to crank shaft checked on assembly?
Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the oil
galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it did.
What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the failure
doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different causes.
In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane or
yourself.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>
> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>
> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb and
caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>
> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating something
wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10. I
suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>
> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Stone
> 502 235-3599
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hi Jim
Id like to see the pics, probably should send them direct to me tough as I'm not
sure the list supports it. I don't think Im the expert your looking for to give
a definitive answer as to what failed, a good metallurgist would be better.
I've seen a several rod failures (not Lycoming) that we had to dig into to find
a cause.
If you can, get some shots of the other rod bearings from the engine. If it was
something like oil starvation or debris you will see damage occurring there also,
or if they look good that also tells you something and narrows it down to
fewer possibilities. Although its possible they have oil starvation damage that
occurred after the case was punctured, depending on how long the engine ran.
What was the reason for using the HS bearing? That is, what is gained over using
a PMA part? Like I said I'm not familiar with it, and I have never seen a bearing
just fail that didn't have an underlying cause.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> Hey Tim,
> Apparently rod bearings can "just fail" and have. The failure mode is a separation
of the metals or de-lamination. I know of at least one law suit that was
settled confidentially.
> All parts were yellow tagged, replaced with new and the engine assembled with
great care by a career engine mechanic in a small shop. I think it was the bearing
because a well know engine shop has experienced a similar failure on an
engine he built,and asked if I had KS bearing. I do have pics if anyone would
like to see them.
> Tim you sound very experienced, would you be interested in seeing the pics?
> Jim
> On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
>
>
> Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
> We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing clearance
to crank shaft checked on assembly?
> Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the oil
galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
> I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it
did. What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the failure
doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different causes.
> In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
> Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane or
yourself.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>>
>> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>>
>> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>>
>> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb
and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>>
>> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
>> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating
something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10.
I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
>> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>>
>> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim Stone
>> 502 235-3599
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Guys:
Since we are talking experimental here are a few tricks:
1 - The size of the breather hole is HUGE and there is very little
crankcase pressure, because of it. You can easily install a reducer and
use a smaller diameter tube. This will also reduce your weight and give
you a smidgen more room under the cowl.
2 - ADD to the breather system a simple automotive PVC Valve. Clean it at
ever yearly inspection and you will be amazed at home much cleaner your
belly is AND how much less oil you pump overboard. AND for all you
Green'y-Stick'm Caps/Tree Huggers - This is a simple Green Thing to do.
You want a PVC Valve designed for hose IN & hose OUT and you mount it
Vertically. It is marked in & out.
3 - If you have the tube exit the cowling make sure it is ONLY 1" sticking
out into the air stream and it is STRAIGHT DOWN. You do NOT want to create
a low pressure at the end of the tube. It will ONLY suck out more oil.
4 - With the hose coming off the engine direct it UP as high
as possible before making the smooth turn and going down. You should also
use Trick 1, 2 & 3 from above as well.
5 - Now, this one I have not tried: Put a 360 deg loop/pigtail in the hose.
This I heard of but I don't like since there is the possibility of
trapping water and freezing in the winter. Note: The engine compartment
will warm up enough to melt the ice, but how high is the crank case
pressure getting before the ice melts? If you live in the no-freeze zone
then not an issue.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Barry,
What makes you think the KS bearing is experimental?
I did not choose the bearing as you stated my overhaul shop did.
As I understand the history, KS bearings were used as a replacement
for the normal bearing manufacturer while the factory was closed for
relocation. All or most engines that were rebuilt during that time period
used them, mine included.
Do u have knowledge to contrary?
"Sorry Mr. Stone, but the judges ruling is insufficient information to justi
fy a case.
>
> Next case!".
Say what? I did not ask for your sarcastic judgmental uninformed
opinion Your Honor.
I'm searching for factual information to help me determine if I have a
case. Please, just the facts.
Jim
Sent from my iPad
On
Jun 30, 2012, at 9:12 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Jim:
>
> I don't think you have a case, Mr. Stone.
> The KS bearing is an experimental bearing - An automotive bearing - That y
ou chose to use in an aviation engine.
> The Oil Analysis - Which I feel is a total wast of time, money and energy -
Might have shown that there was a problem, but human nature always overrule
s facts. And you did nothing with information/facts supplied well in advanc
e of the engine failure. No oil analysis can tell you when you will have a f
ailure all they report are the current facts.
> Point of Fact: ALL Oil Analysis reports always have a C.Y.A. for the shop i
n that 'More testing is required". They leave the judgement call up to you.
>
> Sorry Mr. Stone, but the judges ruling is insufficient information to just
ify a case.
> Next case!
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
om>
>
> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking
for an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caus
ed the failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for ins
pection in Louisville Kentucky.
>
> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine f
ailures. My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>
> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp clim
b and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connec
ting rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident
.
>
> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pisto
ns and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicatin
g something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 1
0. I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden
and fail.
> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please ca
ll or email me.
>
> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of t
he failure.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Stone
> 502 235-3599
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ==========
> nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEng
ines-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Good points Tim, it may be very hard to isolate the exact cause. If I can get
the right set of eyeballs on my engine parts, I might just be able to determine
the cause.
Thanks,
Jim
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
>
> Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
> We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing clearance
to crank shaft checked on assembly?
> Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the oil
galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
> I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it
did. What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the failure
doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different causes.
> In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
> Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane or
yourself.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>>
>> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking for
an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused the
failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>>
>> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>>
>> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb
and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>>
>> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
>> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating
something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10.
I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and fail.
>> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>>
>> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim Stone
>> 502 235-3599
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Jim Stone <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Hi Tim,
My instructions to the engine builder was to build me a certified engine using
all required guidelines and PMA parts. I believe the KS bearing is a PMA bearing
that was a legal substitute for the normal supplier during a factory relocation.
Jim
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 1, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
>
> Hi Jim
> Id like to see the pics, probably should send them direct to me tough as I'm
not sure the list supports it. I don't think Im the expert your looking for to
give a definitive answer as to what failed, a good metallurgist would be better.
I've seen a several rod failures (not Lycoming) that we had to dig into to
find a cause.
> If you can, get some shots of the other rod bearings from the engine. If it was
something like oil starvation or debris you will see damage occurring there
also, or if they look good that also tells you something and narrows it down
to fewer possibilities. Although its possible they have oil starvation damage
that occurred after the case was punctured, depending on how long the engine ran.
> What was the reason for using the HS bearing? That is, what is gained over using
a PMA part? Like I said I'm not familiar with it, and I have never seen a
bearing just fail that didn't have an underlying cause.
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 1, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Tim,
>> Apparently rod bearings can "just fail" and have. The failure mode is a separation
of the metals or de-lamination. I know of at least one law suit that
was settled confidentially.
>> All parts were yellow tagged, replaced with new and the engine assembled with
great care by a career engine mechanic in a small shop. I think it was the
bearing because a well know engine shop has experienced a similar failure on an
engine he built,and asked if I had KS bearing. I do have pics if anyone would
like to see them.
>> Tim you sound very experienced, would you be interested in seeing the pics?
>> Jim
>> On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
>>
>>
>> Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
>> We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing
clearance to crank shaft checked on assembly?
>> Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the
oil galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
>> I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it
did. What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the
failure doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different
causes.
>> In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
>> Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane
or yourself.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking
for an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused
the failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>>>
>>> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>>>
>>> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb
and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>>>
>>> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
>>> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating
something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10.
I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and
fail.
>>> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>>>
>>> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim Stone
>>> 502 235-3599
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
Ralph,
Keep in mind that Lycoming's service bulletin requires an engine tear
down anytime the prop damage is more than can be repaired on the
airplane. Your insurance may pay for the teardown inspection, which you
can upgrade to an overhaul if you wish...
Not sure if there's an AD making this mandatory or not.
Paul
--
Please note my new email address!
millner(at)me.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine failure |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Here a link that may be helpful. Lots more from a google search of "engine bearing
failure analysis".
http://www.nb-cofrisa.com/docs/web_fallos_ing.PDF
Problem is, it sounds like the failed rod separated and you may not have much left
to look at.
Don't overlook detonation as a possibility, it's been known to hammer bearings
out.
Good luck on it, Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 1, 2012, at 7:26 PM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> Good points Tim, it may be very hard to isolate the exact cause. If I can get
the right set of eyeballs on my engine parts, I might just be able to determine
the cause.
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
>
>>
>> Im not familiar with HS, but rod bearings don't just fail, there is always something
behind the failure.
>> We're the rods yellow tagged, sized, bolts & nuts replaced? Was the bearing
clearance to crank shaft checked on assembly?
>> Some hq pictures posted somewhere might give us some clue as to the cause, but
it could have been many different things. Improper assembly, debris in the
oil galley, oil pressure to the bearing, incorrect parts, I could go on.
>> I'm sorry about your loss, and you are fortunate it turned out as well as it
did. What makes you think it might be the bearing? Proximate location to the
failure doesn't mean a thing. As above, it could be a dozen or more different
causes.
>> In all likely hood, the assembly process is a much better place to start looking
for a defendant than the controlled manufacturing process that supplied your
bearing.
>> Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I'm glad you didn't bend your airplane
or yourself.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I had an engine failure in my Harmon Rocket (Lyc IO 540), and I am looking
for an engine expert to have a look at all the pieces and tell me what caused
the failure. I have the entire engine disassembled and available for inspection
in Louisville Kentucky.
>>>
>>> Or, I would like any info on KS bearing failure and their roll in engine failures.
My engine failed with less than 400 hours since 0 time rebuild.
>>>
>>> The engine started making a faint knocking noise followed by oil temp climb
and caution, I headed back to my field and I was on base leg when a connecting
rod failed and punched thru the case, I landed without further incident.
>>>
>>> The engine seized just after touchdown. The case, crank, cam, rods, pistons
and cylinders were all damaged and unusable.
>>> Of note, my engine started making metal on the last oil analysis indicating
something wearing, the company said to retest in 25 hours, I didn't make 10.
I suspect the KS rod bearing failed causing the rod bolts to work harden and
fail.
>>> If you have any experience or knowledge you could pass on to me, please call
or email me.
>>>
>>> My goal is to pursue KS bearing if they are determined to be the cause of the
failure.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim Stone
>>> 502 235-3599
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Barry,
Without intake pressure (vacuum) as part of the equation with your PCV valve
installation, isn't the valve just acting as a restrictor in the crank case
breather line.
Dale Ensing
On Jul 1, 2012, at 6:10 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Guys:
>
> Since we are talking experimental here are a few tricks:
>
> 1 - The size of the breather hole is HUGE and there is very little crankca
se pressure, because of it. You can easily install a reducer and use a smal
ler diameter tube. This will also reduce your weight and give you a smidgen
more room under the cowl.
> 2 - ADD to the breather system a simple automotive PVC Valve. Clean it at
ever yearly inspection and you will be amazed at home much cleaner your bel
ly is AND how much less oil you pump overboard. AND for all you Green'y-Sti
ck'm Caps/Tree Huggers - This is a simple Green Thing to do. You want a PVC
Valve designed for hose IN & hose OUT and you mount it Vertically. It is ma
rked in & out.
> 3 - If you have the tube exit the cowling make sure it is ONLY 1" sticking
out into the air stream and it is STRAIGHT DOWN. You do NOT want to create
a low pressure at the end of the tube. It will ONLY suck out more oil.
> 4 - With the hose coming off the engine direct it UP as high as possible b
efore making the smooth turn and going down. You should also use Trick 1, 2
& 3 from above as well.
> 5 - Now, this one I have not tried: Put a 360 deg loop/pigtail in the hose
. This I heard of but I don't like since there is the possibility of trappi
ng water and freezing in the winter. Note: The engine compartment will war
m up enough to melt the ice, but how high is the crank case pressure getting
before the ice melts? If you live in the no-freeze zone then not an issue.
>
> Barry
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Dale:
I am not sure what you mean by "intake pressure (vacuum)"? *Crankcase
Pressure* is produced by every stroke of the piston, there is also a small
amount of pressure generated by heat and of course by blow-by if there is
any. The pressure and oil is pumped overboard via the breather tube. The
PVC Valve, as you say IS a restrictor. It is nothing more than a tube
with a check-valve that is regulated by a low force spring. It maintains a
very small amount of pressure inside the engine causing the oil to be
dripped back, as apposed to being freely (without any restriction) pumped
overboard. The seal that the check-valve makes is a poor one, it is
NOT designed to be leak tight. The item is very simple and was one of the
first emission control devices used on cars way back, I think in the late
'60's or early '70's.
Yes, Grasshopper, I even remember Oil Air Filters :-)
Barry
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Dale Ensing wrote:
> Barry,
> Without intake pressure (vacuum) as part of the equation with your PCV
> valve installation, isn't the valve just acting as a restrictor in the
> crank case breather line.
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On Jul 1, 2012, at 6:10 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
> Guys:
>
> Since we are talking experimental here are a few tricks:
>
> 1 - The size of the breather hole is HUGE and there is very little
> crankcase pressure, because of it. You can easily install a reducer and
> use a smaller diameter tube. This will also reduce your weight and give
> you a smidgen more room under the cowl.
> 2 - ADD to the breather system a simple automotive PVC Valve. Clean it at
> ever yearly inspection and you will be amazed at home much cleaner your
> belly is AND how much less oil you pump overboard. AND for all you
> Green'y-Stick'm Caps/Tree Huggers - This is a simple Green Thing to do.
> You want a PVC Valve designed for hose IN & hose OUT and you mount it
> Vertically. It is marked in & out.
> 3 - If you have the tube exit the cowling make sure it is ONLY 1" sticking
> out into the air stream and it is STRAIGHT DOWN. You do NOT want to create
> a low pressure at the end of the tube. It will ONLY suck out more oil.
> 4 - With the hose coming off the engine direct it UP as high
> as possible before making the smooth turn and going down. You should also
> use Trick 1, 2 & 3 from above as well.
> 5 - Now, this one I have not tried: Put a 360 deg loop/pigtail in the
> hose. This I heard of but I don't like since there is the possibility of
> trapping water and freezing in the winter. Note: The engine compartment
> will warm up enough to melt the ice, but how high is the crank case
> pressure getting before the ice melts? If you live in the no-freeze zone
> then not an issue.
>
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Here's a link to related discussion.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87347&highlight=S
eparator
Tim
Sent from my iPad
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV10-List: IO-540 crankcase breather |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the link Tim.
But, after reading it and what the welding of the fitting is suppose to do
for HP... All I can think of is: I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I can
sell you real cheap!
BUT! I just had an idea!!! How about connecting the Breather Tube line to
a welded fitting on the exhaust pipe - At of course a 30 or 45 Deg down
angle.
You would: Reduce the crankcase pressure - Burn up all your oil residue -
Keep the belly clean - AND - AND - wait for it... AND make a cool smoke
trail so all the ground pounders will think you are going to do aerobatics.
It reminds me of another farce that was dumped, whoops EXHAUSTED on the
building public:- Weld on a Venture Exhaust Tube on the end of your exhaust
and that way you would get an increase in the exhaust gas velocity which
will act like a Pulse Jet Engine and PUSH you along. Of course it is like
claiming HP increase that can not be measures. But, in this case I'm sure
the restriction of exhaust gas was felt. Felt by ONLY those willing to
admit it. And definitively felt in the wallet.
Any takers on the Bridge - - Anyone?
Barry
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
> Here's a link to related discussion.
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87347&highlight=Separator
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org> |
| Subject: | Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320 |
Which is your favourite tool for the removal of an oil filter? I have
got an O-320 and a Kelly Aerospace ES48108-1 filter attached to the firewall.
Thanks.
George Nielsen
Vans RV-6 PH-XGN
The Hague, the Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
George:
The filter has a (I believe) a 1" hex-nut on the end. So the easiest tool
to use is a 1" Combination wrench. REMEMBER you do NOT kill the filter
with tons of torque. Most filters have the required torque written right
on them. It is basically Hand Tight and them 1/2 a turn more.
Barry
RV6 also :-)
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
> genie(at)swissmail.org>
>
> Which is your favourite tool for the removal of an oil filter? I have got
> an O-320 and a Kelly Aerospace ES48108-1 filter attached to the firewall.
>
> Thanks.
>
> George Nielsen
> Vans RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320 |
I've measured a dozen or so oil filters that I've installed. -70-80 inch-
lbs is plenty of torque. -The 192 to 216 inch-lbs as marked on the filter
(16-18 ft-lbs) is ridiculous over kill. -It shouldn't take a gorilla to
remove the filter.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: FLYaDI
VE =0ATo: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: S
unday, July 22, 2012 6:47 AM=0ASubject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil Filte
r Removal Tool for O-320=0A =0A=0AGeorge:=0A=0AThe filter has a (I believe)
a 1" hex-nut on the end. So the-easiest tool to use is a 1"-- Combin
ation wrench. -REMEMBER you do NOT kill the filter with tons of torque.
-Most filters have the required torque written right on them. -It is-
basically-Hand Tight and them 1/2 a turn more. --=0A=0ABarry=0ARV6 al
so -:-)=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, George Nielsen =0A>=0A>Which is your favourite tool for t
he removal of an oil filter? I have got an O-320 and a Kelly Aerospace ES48
108-1 filter attached to the firewall.=0A>=0A>Thanks.=0A>=0A>George Nielsen
=0A>Vans RV-6 PH-XGN=0A>The Hague, the Netherlands=0A>=0A>=0A>====
========0A>nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List=0A>============
=========================0A
>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>==============
=======================0A>le, L
ist Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>==
-========================
-========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Gary:
I agree with you 100%.
And the main reasons are:
1 - The male and female threads are Oil Coated - And they better be.
2 - The Rubber gasket is oil coat - And it better be.
3 - Even if you use a torque wrench on the oil filter to the required
torque the holding force because of the OIL will be much higher
then truly required.
QUESTION: I never checked - - Does the printed torque say Wet or Dry?
If not stated then it means DRY and if DRY it is incorrect to install the
rubber gasket that way.
HAND TIGHT PLUS 1/2 A TURN MORE.
Never had a oil filter leak.
Never hand a oil filter come loose.
NEVER - NEVER had to use a breaker bar or a screwdriver through a oil
filter to remove it.
AND Don't forget you should be using Safety Wire.
Barry
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> I've measured a dozen or so oil filters that I've installed. 70-80
> inch-lbs is plenty of torque. The 192 to 216 inch-lbs as marked on the
> filter (16-18 ft-lbs) is ridiculous over kill. It shouldn't take a gorilla
> to remove the filter.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* FLYaDIVE
> *To:* lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2012 6:47 AM
> *Subject:* Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320
>
> George:
>
> The filter has a (I believe) a 1" hex-nut on the end. So the easiest tool
> to use is a 1" Combination wrench. REMEMBER you do NOT kill the filter
> with tons of torque. Most filters have the required torque written right
> on them. It is basically Hand Tight and them 1/2 a turn more.
>
> Barry
> RV6 also :-)
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
> genie(at)swissmail.org>
>
> Which is your favourite tool for the removal of an oil filter? I have got
> an O-320 and a Kelly Aerospace ES48108-1 filter attached to the firewall.
>
> Thanks.
>
> George Nielsen
> Vans RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
>
>
> ====**==============================**=
> nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**
> Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> ====**==============================**=
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ====**==============================**=
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
> ====**==============================**=
>
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/follow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://foru====
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320 |
| From: | Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> |
It says to use Dow 4
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 22, 2012, at 2:54 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Gary:
>
> I agree with you 100%.
> And the main reasons are:
> 1 - The male and female threads are Oil Coated - And they better be.
> 2 - The Rubber gasket is oil coat - And it better be.
> 3 - Even if you use a torque wrench on the oil filter to the required torq
ue the holding force because of the OIL will be much higher then truly requi
red.
>
> QUESTION: I never checked - - Does the printed torque say Wet or Dry?
> If not stated then it means DRY and if DRY it is incorrect to install the r
ubber gasket that way.
>
> HAND TIGHT PLUS 1/2 A TURN MORE.
> Never had a oil filter leak.
> Never hand a oil filter come loose.
> NEVER - NEVER had to use a breaker bar or a screwdriver through a oil filt
er to remove it.
>
> AND Don't forget you should be using Safety Wire.
>
> Barry
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Gary Vogt wrote:
> I've measured a dozen or so oil filters that I've installed. 70-80 inch-l
bs is plenty of torque. The 192 to 216 inch-lbs as marked on the filter (16
-18 ft-lbs) is ridiculous over kill. It shouldn't take a gorilla to remove t
he filter.
>
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 6:47 AM
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Oil Filter Removal Tool for O-320
>
> George:
>
> The filter has a (I believe) a 1" hex-nut on the end. So the easiest tool t
o use is a 1" Combination wrench. REMEMBER you do NOT kill the filter wit
h tons of torque. Most filters have the required torque written right on th
em. It is basically Hand Tight and them 1/2 a turn more.
>
> Barry
> RV6 also :-)
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:12 AM, George Nielsen wrot
e:
l.org>
>
> Which is your favourite tool for the removal of an oil filter? I have got a
n O-320 and a Kelly Aerospace ES48108-1 filter attached to the firewall.
>
> Thanks.
>
> George Nielsen
> Vans RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
>
>
> =========================
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ines-List
> =========================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/follow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.m
atronics.com/">http://foru====
>
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> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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==========================
=========
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MA3SPA air temp sensor in a Lyc O320 |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
How is a threaded carburetor air temperature sensor installed in a MA3SPA? If it
is in the small port at the bottom rear of the bowl, I have applied a lot of
pressure with an allen wrench with no luck. Besides, that would seem to be a
spot that is under water, so to speak.
Thanks,
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382132#382132
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MA3SPA air temp sensor in a Lyc O320 |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Someone else might be curious to an answer on this question. A little more searching
found a thread on this topic on another forum here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=25856
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382133#382133
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MA3SPA air temp sensor in a Lyc O320 |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Eric:
>From your description you are looking at the wrong end.
The threaded hole is located at the front of the Carb. It should unscrew
pretty easy with the proper size Allen Wrench or sometimes there is a
Square headed plug.
Use Anti-Seize when installing since you will have S/S against Aluminum.
Barry
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:16 AM, eschlanser wrote:
> eschlanser(at)yahoo.com>
>
> How is a threaded carburetor air temperature sensor installed in a MA3SPA?
> If it is in the small port at the bottom rear of the bowl, I have applied a
> lot of pressure with an allen wrench with no luck. Besides, that would seem
> to be a spot that is under water, so to speak.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382132#382132
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MA3SPA air temp sensor in a Lyc O320 |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry, the link didn't come through. Here's another try. Eric
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=25856
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382292#382292
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MA3SPA air temp sensor in a Lyc O320 |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Barry,
Thanks for the reply. Although you are correct, my carb is not tapped at that
location. Instead, there is a lead plug.
I called Marvel and got the story. The lead plug must be punched out with a 1/8
in. punch and the lead residue picked out. THen, the hole is drilled with a
#3 drill and tapped with a 1/4-24 NF tap. In mine, the mounting flange must also
be relieved to make room for the top of the nut on the probe as the hole is
too close.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382293#382293
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | IO360B / O360A Fuel pump gasket |
I am adding a fuel pump cooling shroud to help prevent vapor lock.
The fuel pump gasket tore around the bolt-hole as I took the pump off to add
the cooling shroud.
Anyone know where to get a replacement gasket?
It looks like an old chevy fuel pump gasket - in fact the pump has AC on the
top...
Thanks in advance,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR - reassembling after inspections brought on by the tornado
induced prop strike by my hangar door.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO360B / O360A Fuel pump gasket |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
The gasket is available from ACS or you can go to a local automotive store.
The pump is the same as used on many cars. Start with the pump Part
Number and Serial Number work from there. You will be able to ID the pump
and gasket.
Now, two issues:
1 - There is an AD on Lycoming Fuel Pumps. Make sure your is not affected.
Check by P/N & S/N.
2 - WHY are you mounting the shroud UNDER the fuel pump? I'm not sure if
that is what you are doing but, when you mention the removal of it, that is
what I envision. You could mount it above the pump and use angle brackets
coming off the mounting bolts. Make the angle brackets long enough so you
have access to the bolts and will be able to install the safety wire.
What other precautions have you done to ward off vapor lock? Have you:
Put fire sleeve on all fuel lines?
Kept fuel lines away from the exhaust pipes and muffler?
Run fuel lines so the supply end is higher than the user end?
Used a large enough diameter fuel line so there is no restriction, no mater
if the pump(s) are working or not?
A side note: On the RV6 that I fly I have added two in-line clear plastic
fuel filters (one for each tank) inside the cockpit - I can look down and
see a positive fuel flow. This works way better than the gascolator.
Barry
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote
:
> I am adding a fuel pump cooling shroud to help prevent vapor lock. ****
>
> The fuel pump gasket tore around the bolt-hole as I took the pump off to
> add the cooling shroud.****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyone know where to get a replacement gasket?****
>
> It looks like an old chevy fuel pump gasket ' in fact the pump has AC o
n
> the top=85..****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks in advance,****
>
> Ralph****
>
> RV6A N822AR ' reassembling after inspections brought on by the tornado
> induced prop strike by my hangar door.****
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | IO360B / O360A Fuel pump gasket |
Barry,
Great scoop.
Already have the AD - will be checking the applicability.
Not mounting under - when I loosened the bolts for the pump, it must have
been on the power stroke and starting pushing the pump up and out from the
bottom.
Already completed the other precautions you have suggested.
Thanks again,
Ralph
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: IO360B / O360A Fuel pump gasket
Ralph:
The gasket is available from ACS or you can go to a local automotive store.
The pump is the same as used on many cars. Start with the pump Part Number
and Serial Number work from there. You will be able to ID the pump and
gasket.
Now, two issues:
1 - There is an AD on Lycoming Fuel Pumps. Make sure your is not affected.
Check by P/N & S/N.
2 - WHY are you mounting the shroud UNDER the fuel pump? I'm not sure if
that is what you are doing but, when you mention the removal of it, that is
what I envision. You could mount it above the pump and use angle brackets
coming off the mounting bolts. Make the angle brackets long enough so you
have access to the bolts and will be able to install the safety wire.
What other precautions have you done to ward off vapor lock? Have you:
Put fire sleeve on all fuel lines?
Kept fuel lines away from the exhaust pipes and muffler?
Run fuel lines so the supply end is higher than the user end?
Used a large enough diameter fuel line so there is no restriction, no mater
if the pump(s) are working or not?
A side note: On the RV6 that I fly I have added two in-line clear plastic
fuel filters (one for each tank) inside the cockpit - I can look down and
see a positive fuel flow. This works way better than the gascolator.
Barry
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Ralph E. Capen
wrote:
I am adding a fuel pump cooling shroud to help prevent vapor lock.
The fuel pump gasket tore around the bolt-hole as I took the pump off to add
the cooling shroud.
Anyone know where to get a replacement gasket?
It looks like an old chevy fuel pump gasket - in fact the pump has AC on the
top...
Thanks in advance,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR - reassembling after inspections brought on by the tornado
induced prop strike by my hangar door.
s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Inline Fuel filters |
| From: | Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Barry,
Would you share some details on the mfg. etc. of the clear in-line plastic f
uel filters you installed for each tank? I think I would like to do the same
on my 6A. Don't know that I need the filtering but like the idea of being a
ble to see the flow. Check my gascolator each year and never find anything i
n there.
Dale
Dale Ensing
>
>
> A side note: On the RV6 that I fly I have added two in-line clear plastic
fuel filters (one for each tank) inside the cockpit - I can look down and s
ee a positive fuel flow. This works way better than the gascolator.
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inline Fuel filters |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Dale:
The fuel filters are from an automotive store. Get the ones with a LARGE
nipple at both ends. You maybe able to do a little research and find the
GPH or GPM flow rate of the filter via part number. Or it maybe written
right on the package. The cost of the filters were under $5 each. I had
to add a small piece of rubber fuel tube (4 ea) and GOOD hose clamps
(Breeze Eastern) (8 ea).
On the RV6 the electric boost pump is located on the pilot sidewall and I
just came out of the fuel tank into the filter and then into the boost
pump. Might as well filter the fuel to the pump. CLEAN IS CLEAN.
The reason why we did this is we had some crud in the tank and no matter
how much cleaning we did there was always something. It showed up first by
preventing the boost pump from pumping... NOW! The pump still flowed
fuel, but the pumping stopped. The fuel filter shows fuel flow, shows dirt
can be back-flushed BUT is so cheap it is better to replace it.
NOTE: Read the install instruction on the filter.... It has a direction of
flow stamped on it.
Barry
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Dale Ensing wrote:
> Barry,
> Would you share some details on the mfg. etc. of the clear in-line plastic
> fuel filters you installed for each tank? I think I would like to do the
> same on my 6A. Don't know that I need the filtering but like the idea of
> being able to see the flow. Check my gascolator each year and never find
> anything in there.
> Dale
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
> ** **
>
> A side note: On the RV6 that I fly I have added two in-line clear plastic
> fuel filters (one for each tank) inside the cockpit - I can look down and
> see a positive fuel flow. This works way better than the gascolator.****
>
> ** **
>
> Barry****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> ==================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Inline Fuel filters |
I used these types of filters to flush the fuel tanks and lines on initial
build. Cycling a few tank full of fuel through these filters and temporary
poly tubing and back to the tank is a good way to get rid of the junk
(mostly proseal flakes) before first flight. They also comes in handy for
doing the fuel level probe calibration.
I would caution however against using anything in a flying plane fuel system
that involves rubber hoses, plastic filters and hose clamps.
Van's sells a very nice inline fuel filter (the Air Flow Performance unit)
that is easy to maintain, meets all engine manufacture requirements, and has
proper AN fitting. This filter is also large enough so that if you do have
some crud, you will have plenty of filter left between annual cleanings. If
you have so much crud that you even see any significant amount at annual,
the answer is to fix the fuel tanks as this is not a safe situation. It is
recommended the filter be installed between the fuel selector valve and the
electric boost pump.
Carl
RV-8A (800 hrs)
RV-10 (46 hrs)
From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Inline Fuel filters
Dale:
The fuel filters are from an automotive store. Get the ones with a LARGE
nipple at both ends. You maybe able to do a little research and find the
GPH or GPM flow rate of the filter via part number. Or it maybe written
right on the package. The cost of the filters were under $5 each. I had to
add a small piece of rubber fuel tube (4 ea) and GOOD hose clamps (Breeze
Eastern) (8 ea).
On the RV6 the electric boost pump is located on the pilot sidewall and I
just came out of the fuel tank into the filter and then into the boost pump.
Might as well filter the fuel to the pump. CLEAN IS CLEAN.
The reason why we did this is we had some crud in the tank and no matter how
much cleaning we did there was always something. It showed up first by
preventing the boost pump from pumping... NOW! The pump still flowed fuel,
but the pumping stopped. The fuel filter shows fuel flow, shows dirt can be
back-flushed BUT is so cheap it is better to replace it.
NOTE: Read the install instruction on the filter.... It has a direction of
flow stamped on it.
Barry
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Dale Ensing
wrote:
Barry,
Would you share some details on the mfg. etc. of the clear in-line plastic
fuel filters you installed for each tank? I think I would like to do the
same on my 6A. Don't know that I need the filtering but like the idea of
being able to see the flow. Check my gascolator each year and never find
anything in there.
Dale
Dale Ensing
A side note: On the RV6 that I fly I have added two in-line clear plastic
fuel filters (one for each tank) inside the cockpit - I can look down and
see a positive fuel flow. This works way better than the gascolator.
Barry
=========
s-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pump cooling |
For those of you that have installed a cooling shroud on your fuel pump, are you
using the entire inch diameter for the flange hole to steal the air? Is it
enough / too much?
I'm thinking I might open it the full inch and put inserts to reduce it...but then
how do I know what's enough.....
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump cooling |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
The 1" size is perfectly acceptable. You can always make it smaller...
But, you can't make it bigger - BUT, don't forget, the exhaust area has to
be at least TWICE the AREA of the input. Area of a circle = 2Pi*R^2.
Barry
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> For those of you that have installed a cooling shroud on your fuel pump,
> are you using the entire inch diameter for the flange hole to steal the
> air? Is it enough / too much?
>
> I'm thinking I might open it the full inch and put inserts to reduce
> it...but then how do I know what's enough.....
>
> Ralph
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump cooling |
Thanks Barry,
It always comes back to high-school math......
I'm thinking that since this has some official sticker on it, the inlet/outlet
areas have been optimized as you have described.
Making the inlet smaller will provide continued conformance to the criteria you
have listed.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: FLYaDIVE
Sent: Sep 11, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump cooling
Ralph:
The 1" size is perfectly acceptable. You can always make it smaller... But, you
can't make it bigger - BUT, don't forget, the exhaust area has to be at least
TWICE the AREA of the input. Area of a circle = 2Pi*R^2.
Barry
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
For those of you that have installed a cooling shroud on your fuel pump, are you
using the entire inch diameter for the flange hole to steal the air? Is it
enough / too much?
I'm thinking I might open it the full inch and put inserts to reduce it...but then
how do I know what's enough.....
Ralph
==========
nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump cooling |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
Do not become too concerned about vapor lock. Yes, some of the stories you
hear are true, but many more are exaggerated. The best things you can do
towards its prevention are:
1 - Point the plane into the wind after shutdown.
2 - Open all cowl flaps (if any)
3 - Open the oil door
4 - Turn on and take off with boost pump ON.
5 - Leave boost pump ON until you reach a safe altitude.
6 - The rest is all dependent upon your building practices - The routing of
fuel lines and Fire Sleeves, as mentioned.
I would NOT reduce the size of the SCAT tube any smaller than 1". Volume
of air flow is NOT only dependent upon size of the tube but also the Flow
Dynamics of the tube. This means internal turbulence and restrictions
[bends, obstructions, roughness, corrugation and input & output
restrictions]. And, if you really want to explore the dynamics of this -
Look up Open and Closed end Resonance. I know, I know, way more
information than needed ;-)
Barry
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks Barry,
>
> It always comes back to high-school math......
>
> I'm thinking that since this has some official sticker on it, the
> inlet/outlet areas have been optimized as you have described.
>
> Making the inlet smaller will provide continued conformance to the
> criteria you have listed.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FLYaDIVE
> Sent: Sep 11, 2012 9:21 AM
> To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump cooling
>
> Ralph:
>
>
> The 1" size is perfectly acceptable. You can always make it smaller...
> But, you can't make it bigger - BUT, don't forget, the exhaust area has to
> be at least TWICE the AREA of the input. Area of a circle = 2Pi*R^2.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Ralph E. Capen
> wrote:
>
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> For those of you that have installed a cooling shroud on your fuel pump,
> are you using the entire inch diameter for the flange hole to steal the
> air? Is it enough / too much?
>
> I'm thinking I might open it the full inch and put inserts to reduce
> it...but then how do I know what's enough.....
>
> Ralph
>
>
> ==========
> nes-List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pump Fittings |
Hi all,
I am doing the final fuel systems connections on my IO360M1B. I just
wanted to verify how the o-ring fittings to the fuel pump work. As I
understand it, they are screwed in, more or less finger tight, and positioned
for
the correct alignment for the hose. Then the outer nut is tightened down
which compresses the o-ring and provides the seal. Then the torque setting
for the nut would be whatever the table gives for that size nut? I think it
is about 5/16ths, which would translate to around 80 inch pounds.
Do I have this right?
Thanks,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Unused -Lycoming EA AEIO-360-B1F and Hartzel prop |
for sale
After a number of years of =9CI=99ll get to it soon=9D I
have=0Adecided to put my RV-6A Kit, engine and propeller up for sale.=0A=C2
-=0AI acquired the RV in early 2000 while I was in flight=0Atraining for
my private ticket. Shortly after (a few months) the kit=99s arrival
=0AI had an unfortunate accident and as a result my left shoulder required
=0Asurgery. Recovery was slow and painful. My flight training was halted an
d my=0Awork on the RV also stopped. A few years later, when I had recovered
most of my=0Amobility, I started flying and got the private ticket but my
desire to build=0Athe airplane was gone. I kept it thinking I will eventual
ly start up again, but=0AI never did.=0A=C2-=0ASo it=99s time for s
omeone else to try their hand.=C2- Here is what I have for sale:=0ANote -
I removed the aircraft information as this is not an aircraft forum=0AIf y
ou want to see what the aircraft specs are - check out the RV and RV6 forum
- but the prop and engine specs are below.=0A=0A=C2-=0ALycoming EA=0AAEI
O-360-B1F (Fuel Injected 180 HP) engine packaged for long term=0Astorage. I
also got the LASAR/SLICK Electronic Ignition system. This engine has=0ANEV
ER been out of its shipping crate.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-Hartzel Constant Speed
Propeller model # C2YK-1BF/F766A4.=0AThe Prop is still in its original ship
ping box.=0A=C2-=0APictures of the airplane and prop are at: =0A=C2-=0A
https://picasaweb.google.com/103635590211074260885/Aircraft?authuser=0&fe
at=directlink=0A=C2-=0AIf you have any questions or wish to make a seri
ous offer on=0Aany or all of my items(Note =93 I will NOT =98pa
rt out=99 the airplane) please contact=0Ame.=0A=C2-=0AI can be reac
hed by email at:=C2- strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net or by phone at 510-209-8515=0A
=C2-=0AThanks!=0A=C2-=0ARick Wagoner=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <e.molina(at)repromatictrade.com> |
| Subject: | RE: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/21/12 |
Hi Richard,
Could you specify what prop is it and advise selling price.
My mail e.molina(at)repromatictrade.com
Thanks,
Eduardo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] En nombre de
LycomingEngines-List Digest Server
Enviado el: lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 9:00
Para: LycomingEngines-List Digest List
Asunto: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/21/12
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of
the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
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LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 10/21/12: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 PM - Unused -Lycoming EA AEIO-360-B1F and Hartzel prop for
sale (Richard Wagoner)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: LycomingEngines-List: Unused -Lycoming EA AEIO-360-B1F and Hartzel
prop for sale
After a number of years of =9CI=99ll get to it soon=9D I have=0Adecided to
put my RV-6A Kit, engine and propeller up for sale.=0A=C2 -=0AI acquired the
RV in early 2000 while I was in flight=0Atraining for my private ticket.
Shortly after (a few months) the kit=99s arrival =0AI had an unfortunate
accident and as a result my left shoulder required =0Asurgery. Recovery was
slow and painful. My flight training was halted an d my=0Awork on the RV
also stopped. A few years later, when I had recovered most of
my=0Amobility, I started flying and got the private ticket but my desire to
build=0Athe airplane was gone. I kept it thinking I will eventual ly start
up again, but=0AI never did.=0A=C2-=0ASo it=99s time for s omeone else to
try their hand.=C2- Here is what I have for sale:=0ANote - I removed the
aircraft information as this is not an aircraft forum=0AIf y ou want to see
what the aircraft specs are - check out the RV and RV6 forum
- but the prop and engine specs are below.=0A=0A=C2-=0ALycoming EA=0AAEI
O-360-B1F (Fuel Injected 180 HP) engine packaged for long term=0Astorage. I
also got the LASAR/SLICK Electronic Ignition system. This engine has=0ANEV
ER been out of its shipping crate.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-Hartzel Constant Speed
Propeller model # C2YK-1BF/F766A4.=0AThe Prop is still in its original ship
ping box.=0A=C2-=0APictures of the airplane and prop are at: =0A=C2-=0A
https://picasaweb.google.com/103635590211074260885/Aircraft?authuser=0&fe
at=directlink=0A=C2-=0AIf you have any questions or wish to make a seri ous
offer on=0Aany or all of my items(Note =93 I will NOT =98pa rt out=99 the
airplane) please contact=0Ame.=0A=C2-=0AI can be reac hed by email at:=C2-
strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net or by phone at 510-209-8515=0A
=C2-=0AThanks!=0A=C2-=0ARick Wagoner=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Reformatted engine and prop for sale posting |
=0A=0AI apologize for the duplicate posting, but after I saw how absolutely
wretched my first=0A=0Aposting looked, I just had to reformat and re-post
it.=0A=0A------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------=0A=0AAfter a number of years of =9CI=99ll ge
t to it soon=9D I have decided to put my RV-6A Kit, engine and propel
ler up for sale.=0A=0AI acquired the RV in early 2000 while I was in flight
training for my private ticket. =0A=0AShortly after (a few months) the kit
=99s arrival I had an unfortunate accident and as a result =0A=0Amy l
eft shoulder required surgery. Recovery was slow and painful.=C2-=0A=0AMy
flight training was halted and my work on the RV also stopped. A few years
later, when I had=0Arecovered most of my mobility, I started flying and go
t the private ticket but my desire to build =0A=0Athe airplane was gone. I
kept it thinking I will eventually start up again, but I never did.=0A=0ASo
it=99s time for someone else to try their hand.=C2- Here is what I
have for sale:=0A=0AI removed the RV-6A aircraft specs from this posting a
s this is not an aircraft forum.=0A=0ALycoming EA AEIO-360-B1F (Fuel Inject
ed 180 HP) engine packaged for long term storage. I also =0A=0Agot the LASA
R/SLICK Electronic Ignition system. This engine has NEVER been out of its s
hipping crate.=0A=0A=0AHartzel Constant Speed Propeller model # C2YK-1BF/F7
66A4. The Prop is still in its original =0A=0Ashipping box.=0A=0A=0APicture
s of the airplane and prop are at: =0A=0Ahttps://picasaweb.google.com/10363
5590211074260885/Aircraft?authuser=0&feat=directlink=0A=0AIf you have a
ny questions or wish to make a serious offer on any or all of my items=0A
=0A(Note =93 I will NOT =98part out=99 the airplane) plea
se contact me.=0A=0AI can be reached by email at:=C2- strgzr(at)sbcglobal.ne
t or by phone at 510-209-8515=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0ARick Wagoner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: LycomingEngines
-List Digest Server =0ATo: LycomingEngi
nes-List Digest List =0ASent: S
aturday, October 20, 2012 11:59 PM=0ASubject: LycomingEngines-List Digest:
0 Msgs - 10/20/12=0A =0A*=0A=0A==============
============0A=C2- Online Versions of Today's List
Digest Archive=0A===================
=======0A=0AToday's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can al
so be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html
file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web brows
er and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.=C2- The .t
xt file includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the LycomingEngines-List Dig
est and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with
a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics
.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-10-20&A
rchive=LycomingEngines=0A=0AText Version:=0A=0A=C2- =C2- http://www.m
atronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-
10-20&Archive=LycomingEngines=0A=0A=0A===========
=============0A=C2- EMail Version of Today's Lis
t Digest Archive=0A==================
======0A=0A=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------
-------------------------------------------=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- LycomingEng
ines-List Digest Archive=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- ---=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/20/12: 0=0A=C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------------------------
=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, L
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
The Hartzel propeller is model # C2YK-1BF/F766A4, unused it its box, It was close
to $5k new
so I'm looking for $3.5k .
Rick
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim clark <jam6rv(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Propellor info |
I am interested in prop, seems like a number is missing, can find no match
on Hatzell web site or vans, please check and reply with correct number.-
Is this a prop for a tail dragger or nose gear plane.- Jim=0A=0A=0A =0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Richard Wagoner <strgzr@sbcglo
bal.net>=0ATo: "lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:24 AM=0ASubject: Lycomi
ngEngines-List: Propellor info=0A =0A=0AThe Hartzel propeller is model # C
2YK-1BF/F766A4, unused it its box, It was close to $5k new=0Aso I'm looking
for $3.5k .=0A=0A=0ARick=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propellor info |
| From: | Mark Burns <burnsm(at)suddenlink.net> |
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cgo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)agelesswings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Propellor info |
Or, maybe the number is: C2YK-1BF/F7666A-4 (one more 6, leave the
"A" in and put the hyphen before the 4)? That seems to be a
legitimate prop that a couple of other RV owners are using.
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 10/23/2012 12:21 PM, Mark Burns wrote:
> I can answer this question.
> It's a 72" prop. Good for tailwheel or nosewheel RVs.
> Try changing the "A" to a "-"
> As in F766-4
> I don't think the "A" correct.
> I could be wrong though.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> jim clark wrote:
> I am interested in prop, seems like a number is missing, can
> find no match on Hatzell web site or vans, please check and
> reply with correct number. Is this a prop for a tail dragger
> or nose gear plane. Jim
>
> *From:* Richard Wagoner
> *To:* "lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com"
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:24 AM
> *Subject:* LycomingEngines-List: Propellor info
>
> The Hartzel propeller is model # C2YK-1BF/F766A4, unused it its
> box, It was close to $5k new
> so I'm looking for $3.5k .
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> *http://www.matroni===================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ky"Z+M4Gq(wrr')IQh
> axr^jzZ(
> "X,ZIJr*'
> !y:0ZwE,jwfffi0fr(Z(&xzm-&j',r5hhIw.+-M
> $NECI'j[(jzyhj~mfr(mfr(B{kyjy2*.
z.1m)i0fr((nbxm-&j',rr&*''k{w/i
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Date: 10/23/12
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | For sale prop corrected model number |
Forum-folk - I seem to have dropped a number from the model number of the Prop
I have for sale.
It should read C2YK-1BF/F7666A-4
Sorry for the confusion
Rick
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please |
Make A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate
the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using
your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A Message From AeroElectric's Bob Nuckolls... |
Dear Listers,
The well known Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric posted a great message Monday on
the AeroElectric-List regarding the Matronics Lists and the importance of supporting
the operation during the Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to read Bob's
commentary below, reposted to the other Matronics Lists with his permission...
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 08:58:41 -0600
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Please Make A Contribution Today!
At 02:14 AM 11/5/2012, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
> acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
> support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that
> took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
>
I will add my voice to this suggestion. It's
easy to enjoy the benefits of what's available to us
off-the-shelves at the corner mega-marts. It's
seldom that we give pause to learn and understand the
processes and tools that made it possible to reach out
and select from dozens of options.
This, and all civil societies, runs on talent, energy
and mobility. Mobility exploited by thousands of hands,
machines and transportation that figure into the
'infrastructure' that puts the boxes of Wheaties and
Pop Tarts on the shelves.
See "I pencil" http://tinyurl.com/36xkhq
Any break in that chain of time, talent and resources
at least interrupts if not totally halts flow of
that benefit. Matt's room full of byte-thrashers is
like the natural gas pumping station a few miles from
my house. If those pumps stop, who ever is expecting
the furnace to come on at the other end of the pipe
is at risk for reduced service and/or higher costs
for that service.
Matt's yearly endeavor to keep his pumps running is
a trivial burden on the members of the Lists
but of incalculable value to those who participate
on them. No donation is too small.
We go to a fly-in a willingly chuck a few bucks into
the coffee can at the drinks and donuts table, let's
chuck a few bucks into Matt's coffee can too. 50,000
pounds of value doesn't get to the shelves on time
if one 18-wheeler runs out of gas. The T-bytes of
data flow we all enjoy don't get from your keyboard
to the screens of others unless Matt pays the light
bill and strokes the machines to keep them happy.
No, $5 won't get you a free copy of the 'Connection
or a fuel sampler but it will go toward the assurance
that logging onto your favorite List will open
doors that you would be sorely missed should you find
that hitting the return key doesn't produce the
expected response.
$5 from every List customer on Matt's system will
go a very long way to keeping the byte-pumps running.
$More$ will go a long way to upgrading the size
and quality of the machines as the old ones get
long in the tooth. No matter what size of donation
you choose . . . please do it now . . .
Bob . . .
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Barnett <alansbarnett(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
I recently bought the Tanis engine preservation kit to preserve my
Lycoming 0-320 B2B engine with an aftermarket fuel injection system.
The price of the kit seemed excessive, but I was unable to find an
alternative source for the two types of preservative oil.
In addition to the preservative oil, the kit contains four desiccant
plugs, bags of desiccants, and some duct tape.
The Lycoming maintenance bulletin recommends replacing the spark plugs
with desiccant plugs and placing dessicants in the intake and exhaust
passages and sealing them.
The desiccant plugs didn't fit in the spark plug holes, and the kit only
contained three bags of desiccants, when I need five (one for each
exhaust pipe, plus one for the intake manifold.
I was also unable to get the duct tape to stick to the intake manifold
due to a thin coating of oil that had dripped on it when I changed the
oil filter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry Charlie... Whoops Alan:
Wish you would have posted your question before going the Tanis route. A
waste of money.
Are you 'Pickling' the while the engine is still on the plane and is it
outside or in a NON heated hanger?
Desiccant is like the third line of defense - Not the First.
It WILL turn blue with in a week of rainy WX if outside or in a non heated
hanger.
The best you can do is get COSMOLINE and spray down the engine and pump it
through the engine.
Second best is something like Philips 66 Preservative oil.
Then seal off the exhausts and intake. The better the seal the better the
Pickling. Putting a 'D' Bag in does NOTHING. Especially when you can't
inspect the bag.
As for the duct tape and oil ... Can't blame Tanis.
SPRAY the preservative oil inside the cylinders, as a minimal action.
Also if you visit the engine about once a month - Make up a Pre-Oiler and
pump around the preservative oil. This will do lots in the way of
prevention.
How long are you storing the engine for?
Barry
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Alan Barnett wrote:
> alansbarnett(at)verizon.net>
>
> I recently bought the Tanis engine preservation kit to preserve my
> Lycoming 0-320 B2B engine with an aftermarket fuel injection system.
>
> The price of the kit seemed excessive, but I was unable to find an
> alternative source for the two types of preservative oil.
>
> In addition to the preservative oil, the kit contains four desiccant
> plugs, bags of desiccants, and some duct tape.
>
> The Lycoming maintenance bulletin recommends replacing the spark plugs
> with desiccant plugs and placing dessicants in the intake and exhaust
> passages and sealing them.
>
> The desiccant plugs didn't fit in the spark plug holes, and the kit only
> contained three bags of desiccants, when I need five (one for each
> exhaust pipe, plus one for the intake manifold.
>
> I was also unable to get the duct tape to stick to the intake manifold
> due to a thin coating of oil that had dripped on it when I changed the
> oil filter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Barnett <alansbarnett(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
> Sorry Charlie... Whoops Alan:
>
> Wish you would have posted your question before going the Tanis route.
> A waste of money.
I wish I had also.
>
> Are you 'Pickling' the while the engine is still on the plane and is
> it outside or in a NON heated hanger?
The engine is on the plane, which is in my heated garage with the wings
and canard removed.
>
> Desiccant is like the third line of defense - Not the First.
> It WILL turn blue with in a week of rainy WX if outside or in a non
> heated hanger.
>
> The best you can do is get COSMOLINE and spray down the engine and
> pump it through the engine.
> Second best is something like Philips 66 Preservative oil.
I did that. I also ran the engine to get the oil temp up to 180 degrees.
> Then seal off the exhausts and intake. The better the seal the better
> the Pickling. Putting a 'D' Bag in does NOTHING. Especially when you
> can't inspect the bag.
> As for the duct tape and oil ... Can't blame Tanis.
>
> SPRAY the preservative oil inside the cylinders, as a minimal action.
Done.
> Also if you visit the engine about once a month - Make up a Pre-Oiler
> and pump around the preservative oil.
I can visit the engine every day. Can you point me to info on making
and using a pre-oiler?
> This will do lots in the way of prevention.
> How long are you storing the engine for?
About 5 months. I'm upgrading the panel, and I hope to have it
completed by spring.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Alan Barnett
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I recently bought the Tanis engine preservation kit to preserve my
> Lycoming 0-320 B2B engine with an aftermarket fuel injection system.
>
> The price of the kit seemed excessive, but I was unable to find an
> alternative source for the two types of preservative oil.
>
> In addition to the preservative oil, the kit contains four desiccant
> plugs, bags of desiccants, and some duct tape.
>
> The Lycoming maintenance bulletin recommends replacing the spark plugs
> with desiccant plugs and placing dessicants in the intake and exhaust
> passages and sealing them.
>
> The desiccant plugs didn't fit in the spark plug holes, and the
> kit only
> contained three bags of desiccants, when I need five (one for each
> exhaust pipe, plus one for the intake manifold.
>
> I was also unable to get the duct tape to stick to the intake manifold
> due to a thin coating of oil that had dripped on it when I changed the
> oil filter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Alan:
Here is a picture of a very simple Pre-Oiler that I made. Cost, less than
$20. $40 if you consider the cost of a air pump.
The top is screwed off to pour in the oil. (1 Qt)
Then it is pressurized to 100 - 125 PSI
Plug the Engine with a cap.
The end of the clear plastic tube is connected to the IN side of the oil
cooler
and -
Then plug the oil cooler with the cap.
Then connect to the OUT side of the engine.
This will squirt the oil around at the same pressure ans a running engine.
Drain (1 Qt) from the bottom of the sump and reuse it.
I have used this method 4 times so far and the engine looks great when
inspected with a bore scope. Mater of fact - THIS is more oil saturation
than most planes get in two or three months... Think of it this way: Look
at the planes on the field. How many of them do you see flying? So this
type of oiling is very good for your plane.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Alan Barnett wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sorry Charlie... Whoops Alan:
>
> Wish you would have posted your question before going the Tanis route. A
> waste of money.
>
> I wish I had also.
>
>
> Are you 'Pickling' the while the engine is still on the plane and is it
> outside or in a NON heated hanger?
>
> The engine is on the plane, which is in my heated garage with the wings
> and canard removed.
>
>
> Desiccant is like the third line of defense - Not the First.
> It WILL turn blue with in a week of rainy WX if outside or in a non heated
> hanger.
>
> The best you can do is get COSMOLINE and spray down the engine and pump
> it through the engine.
> Second best is something like Philips 66 Preservative oil.
>
> I did that. I also ran the engine to get the oil temp up to 180 degrees.
>
> Then seal off the exhausts and intake. The better the seal the better
> the Pickling. Putting a 'D' Bag in does NOTHING. Especially when you
> can't inspect the bag.
> As for the duct tape and oil ... Can't blame Tanis.
>
> SPRAY the preservative oil inside the cylinders, as a minimal action.
>
> Done.
>
> Also if you visit the engine about once a month - Make up a Pre-Oiler
> and pump around the preservative oil.
>
> I can visit the engine every day. Can you point me to info on making and
> using a pre-oiler?
>
> This will do lots in the way of prevention.
> How long are you storing the engine for?
>
> About 5 months. I'm upgrading the panel, and I hope to have it completed
> by spring.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Alan Barnett wrote:
>
>> alansbarnett(at)verizon.net>
>>
>> I recently bought the Tanis engine preservation kit to preserve my
>> Lycoming 0-320 B2B engine with an aftermarket fuel injection system.
>>
>> The price of the kit seemed excessive, but I was unable to find an
>> alternative source for the two types of preservative oil.
>>
>> In addition to the preservative oil, the kit contains four desiccant
>> plugs, bags of desiccants, and some duct tape.
>>
>> The Lycoming maintenance bulletin recommends replacing the spark plugs
>> with desiccant plugs and placing dessicants in the intake and exhaust
>> passages and sealing them.
>>
>> The desiccant plugs didn't fit in the spark plug holes, and the kit only
>> contained three bags of desiccants, when I need five (one for each
>> exhaust pipe, plus one for the intake manifold.
>>
>> I was also unable to get the duct tape to stick to the intake manifold
>> due to a thin coating of oil that had dripped on it when I changed the
>> oil filter.
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch |
Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined
with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site
up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics
Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are
so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have
it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine,
List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for the over 22 years of on-line
archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets
the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power these List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses.
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List
services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of
the best investments you can make in your Sport!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Barry,
Maybe it's only me as I have a hard time following directions (just ask my wife)
but I can't follow the IN's and OUT's of where to plug what in order to hook
up your clever pre oiler. Can you try again to explain the hook up? Slowly
this time, please.
Eric - O-320 preserved in SW Michigan.
ps - Do you have a picture of it hooked up to the engine?
quote="BARRY CHECK 6"]Alan:
Plug the Engine with a cap.
The end of the clear plastic tube is connected to the IN side of the oil cooler
and -
Then plug the oil cooler with the cap.
Then connect to the OUT side of the engine.
Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387797#387797
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation |
kit
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Barry:
When you disconnect ONE side of the oil cooler you will have a Male fitting
on the oil cooler and a hose...
Now disconnect the hose.
You now have a Male fitting on the engine.
You will need a CAP (usually an ANxxx-6) CAP
Now, on the Pre-Oiler you will have a hose/tube - It will require a Female
ANxxx-6 fitting to fit on the Oil Cooler and on the engine.
Fill the Pre-Oiler with 1 Qt of oil.
Connect the hose/tube to the Oil Cooler
Put the CAP on the engine fitting.
Pressurize the Pre-Oiler to 125 PSI with air.
Leave the air hooked up and running.
Open the valve on the Pre-Oiler.
BAM - You just squirted oil through the engine.
NOW!
Shut off the Pre-Oiler.
Disconnect the air.
Remove the CAP from the Engine.
Remove the hose/tube from the Oil Cooler.
Put the CAP on the Oil Cooler.
Connect the hose/tube to the Engine.
Put 1 Qt of oil in the Pre-Oiler.
Pressurize the Pre-Oiler to 125 PSI with air.
Leave the air hooked up and running.
Open the valve on the Pre-Oiler.
BAM - You just squirted oil through the engine IN OPPOSITE DIRECTION -
GREAT!
BAM - You are DONE
Hope this makes sense - If not, let me know and I'll try again.
Barry
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 7:30 PM, eschlanser wrote:
> eschlanser(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> Maybe it's only me as I have a hard time following directions (just ask
> my wife) but I can't follow the IN's and OUT's of where to plug what in
> order to hook up your clever pre oiler. Can you try again to explain the
> hook up? Slowly this time, please.
>
> Eric - O-320 preserved in SW Michigan.
>
> ps - Do you have a picture of it hooked up to the engine?
>
> quote="BARRY CHECK 6"]Alan:
>
> Plug the Engine with a cap.
> The end of the clear plastic tube is connected to the IN side of the oil
> cooler
> and -
> Then plug the oil cooler with the cap.
> Then connect to the OUT side of the engine.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387797#387797
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Problems with Tanis engine preservation kit |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Barry,
That should do it. I am eager to give it a try.
Thank you,
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387815#387815
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists anyway? I've been working
in the Information Technology industry for over 28 years, primarily in computer
networking design and implementation and more recently as an embedded software
engineer. I have also done a fair amount of work in web design and development.
I started the Matronics Email Lists way back in 1990 shortly after I started building
my RV-4 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since
that time, I have added many other types of aircraft related Lists to the line
up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives
and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers locally.
Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a bonded dual T1 commercial-grade business Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers include a dual quad-core Linux server for List web services
with 24GB of memory, a quad -core Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another standalone Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with multi-terra byts of online storage. This entire system
is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply systems
(UPS) that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage!
Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these
systems. On the average, the elctric bill is in the neighborhood of $7000-$8000/yr
and the newly upgraded dual-T1 Internet connection runs roughly $6000/yr.
A while back, I upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new
power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the
Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists and followed that upgrade up with
a second rack upgrade to house the MONSTER web system that didn't quite fit
into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center prior
to the addition of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've mentioned many times
before, I don't use commercial advertisments to support any of these systems.
It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you...
and you... and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely
through your Contributions during this time of the year.
*Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another
great year!
Use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by sending a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Some Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support
Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available this year, so please browse the nice selection
and pickup something fun with your qualifying Contribution!
You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or feel free to send a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Outstanding service to the flying community.
George A
Matt, I look forward to support each others projects,
Glenn B
Great list!!! Thanks for all your efforts!
Roger C
Thank you for keeping up the lists. Without it i would never
have completed my aircraft.
Stan S
Keep up the good work my friend. I don't think I could ever
finish my Pietenpol Air Camper without the help I get from
this List.
Tom S
Thank you for keeping these list alive.
Lee V
The List is invaluable!!
Svein J
Thanks for continuing to provide the list service!
Earl S
You have a really GREAT service. Thankyou so much I've been on
for nearly 30 years and I still check-in every morning.
John B
I rely fully on the lists which govern my every decision. The
flexibility provides the security I seek.
Fergus K
My RV 7 Finally flies... 7 years of Matronics.com certainly
helped.
Martin H
Great service here, thanks! I am just getting back to a
project I dropped for a few years, great to see your site
and all the folks again!
James C
Thanks for the great site.
Robert U
The Rotax list is good and the AeroElectric list outstanding!
Jay H
Thank you for a great resource!
Jack T
Thanks for your great record of outstanding service to the
homebuilding community!
Larry W
This service is invaluable.
Michael W
You're doing a great job Matt.
Robert D
Thanks for all your work, its a great asset to all.
John F
Thank you for your time & effort Matt!
Ted W
Matt, been a follower since 2005 on the -10 list, now
starting an -8. Keep up the great work!
John M
Still my favorite place to hang out.
William W
I'm not a Piet builder, but this is the most informative and
congenial list I've ever run across. Please forgive my
lurking-I learn a LOT here!
Ken M
Many thanks for keeping this alive, keep pushing!
Adrian C
Thanks! Please keep r going!
Rich Z
Many thanks for your hard work.
Robert C
Thanks for the Lists! I probably need to subscribe to a few
more...
John M
Been a quick 14 years. Think I subscribed to the Kolb
List in 1998, when I got my first computer. Thanks for
keeping everything running smoothly for all these years.
John H
Great resource - thank you.
David M
I don't post very much, but get the postings, a lot of really
practical info.
John N
Great job Matt, thanks for all you do.
Roger M
Thanks for ANOTHER great year, Matt! True grassroots
experimental aviation has been pushed aside in many ways.
But the List represents the evolution of this great
tradition of home-building. One man, the plans, the tools,
and the List - that's all you need to build the dream!
Robert B
This message board is a real help to my project and creating
friendships.
John S
Many thanks for your continuing excellent work.
Mike G
Thank you for your work Matt. Your lists have helped me a
great deal during the construction of my plane.
Hal B
Nice List
Van E
These lists are priceless for builders.
Ronald C
Thanks for keeping me in touch with the Pulsar community.
Otto S
Thanks for keeping up this great warbird sight!!
Yak Ron
Thanks for providing all the lists for so many years.
H H
Thanks for all that you do. Your dedication is much appreciated!
Warren H
Best service on the internet!
Owen B
I have learned so much from the "list".
Nick C
Great Service You Are Providing!
Giffen M
Thanks so much for maintaining these great resources.
Dave S
I no longer fly due to age and health problems, but I still
enjoy the reading from other pilots.
Dallas S
This is a wonderful site.
Robert B
Useful service over the last year - thanks.
Om T
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...? |
Dear Listers,
The number of List subscriptions are up by a fair amount this year, but support
during this year's Fund Raiser is substantially behind last year, and there's
only about a week left until the end of the Fund Raiser. I have always preferred
a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed
that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient
funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income might be required
including some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal
Contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping this operation a
float.
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors!
The List Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions Down By 23%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists
and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public address space.
I also maintain a full
backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the
event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive
data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each
year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you
can use a credit card,
Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
in December!
Dear Listers,
There's just a couple more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I
post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the
Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Folks,
I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I thought
I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?
With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the
shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there. Is
there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?
Thanks,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronnie Koonce <rlk(at)granderiver.net> |
My niece, an R-44 pilot recently acquired a Diamond Star XLS and is
looking for a local shop to maintain it. Any suggestions? She lives in
Benton, Kansas. Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Ralph:
The cooling shroud is a nice-a-ty but not really required. Do you have
fire-sleeve on all the fuel lines? That is all that is required. I have
the same setup and have never had vapor lock; if that was your reason for
the shroud.
As for tightening .. That is an issue. I'm guessing here - But, do you
have STEEL fittings going into the pump?
The basic rule is steel fitting for certified aircraft - But, I'm not
making the rules & regs the issue. It could be the problem. The problem
is the steel fittings can be tightened way more than necessary without
showing/needing any great forces. They almost cut their own threads;
driving the fitting in way more than required. So, why is that a problem?
Because the body of the fuel pump is much softer than the fitting and if
the fitting is over tightened you could crack the pump case.
Now, try this - This is to insure the quality of the threads on the fitting
and will also verify if there are any cracks in the pump body:
Start by cursing -
Then remove the fitting
Wire brush by hand the fitting
Run your finger around the inside of the pump threads - You are looking for
roughness of burs.
If none found you many be lucky.
NOW - This you must do EXACTLY as described. You are going to put TEFLON
tape on the fitting BUT!
START the Teflon tape THREE (3) threads BACK from the START END of the
fitting.
Put on three (3) layers - PULL the tape tight so it stretches.
YES - I know Teflon tape is frowned against - For two reasons:
1 - People put it all the way to the end of the fitting and pieces get cut
off and can clog the fuel / oil systems.
2 - It reduces the friction on the fitting and leads to over tightening of
the fitting.
HOW TO PUT ON TEFLON TAPE
Hold the fitting in your left hand with the start end facing to the right.
Start at the top of the fitting (On The Left)
Pull the tape and stretch it.
Wrap it AWAY FROM YOU <-- Failure to do so will lead to more cursing.
Wrap it - But stay three (3) threads away from the start end.
Finish the wrapping with the tape end going UP the thread toward the top
(your left)
Tightening - As mentioned CAUTION! Do not over tighten. The Teflon will
seal the leaks.
IF you still have a leak you could have a cracked fuel pump body. This I
truly hope not.
Oh, there is an approved pipe dope compound for certified aircraft but I do
not recall the name.
TOOL WISE - I can't see your setup or what tool you are using - But, don't
be afraid to MAKE your own tool by grinding a wrench to fit the area - Or
heating and bending a wrench to fit the area.
You may want to start with a FLARE WRENCH and work from there.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Folks,
>
> I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I
> thought I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
>
> For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten
> the fittings? With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as
> well as the shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench
> in there. Is there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to
> make a special tool?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph
> RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Good scoop here Barry!
I have Fire-Sleeve on those lines and they are steel fittings. From what I recall,
they are NOT NPT threads and have an O-Ring and washer that are tightened
by a jam-nut to create the sealing action. I had some hot-restarting issues
during the summer months as I have a tight fitting plenum (SamJames) around the
engine.
I have already accomplished the cursing parts....
I also have the approved pipe dope stuff - it is a white compound made by the loc-tite
folks (565). Hadn't used either for this application due to the O-Ring/washer
thingy....that has worked for the first 140 hours...until I added the
shroud.
I'll be modifying some wrenches to fit in there meanwhile.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: FLYaDIVE
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Hello Ralph:
The cooling shroud is a nice-a-ty but not really required. Do you have fire-sleeve
on all the fuel lines? That is all that is required. I have the same setup
and have never had vapor lock; if that was your reason for the shroud.
As for tightening .. That is an issue. I'm guessing here - But, do you have STEEL
fittings going into the pump?The basic rule is steel fitting for certified
aircraft - But, I'm not making the rules & regs the issue. It could be the problem.
The problem is the steel fittings can be tightened way more than necessary
without showing/needing any great forces. They almost cut their own threads;
driving the fitting in way more than required. So, why is that a problem?
Because the body of the fuel pump is much softer than the fitting and if the
fitting is over tightened you could crack the pump case.
Now, try this - This is to insure the quality of the threads on the fitting and
will also verify if there are any cracks in the pump body:Start by cursing -Then
remove the fittingWire brush by hand the fitting
Run your finger around the inside of the pump threads - You are looking for roughness
of burs.If none found you many be lucky.NOW - This you must do EXACTLY
as described. You are going to put TEFLON tape on the fitting BUT!
START the Teflon tape THREE (3) threads BACK from the START END of the fitting.Put
on three (3) layers - PULL the tape tight so it stretches.YES - I know Teflon
tape is frowned against - For two reasons:
1 - People put it all the way to the end of the fitting and pieces get cut off
and can clog the fuel / oil systems.2 - It reduces the friction on the fitting
and leads to over tightening of the fitting.
HOW TO PUT ON TEFLON TAPEHold the fitting in your left hand with the start end
facing to the right.Start at the top of the fitting (On The Left)Pull the tape
and stretch it.
Wrap it AWAY FROM YOU <-- Failure to do so will lead to more cursing.Wrap it -
But stay three (3) threads away from the start end.Finish the wrapping with the
tape end going UP the thread toward the top (your left)
Tightening - As mentioned CAUTION! Do not over tighten. The Teflon will seal
the leaks.IF you still have a leak you could have a cracked fuel pump body. This
I truly hope not.
Oh, there is an approved pipe dope compound for certified aircraft but I do not
recall the name.
TOOL WISE - I can't see your setup or what tool you are using - But, don't be afraid
to MAKE your own tool by grinding a wrench to fit the area - Or heating
and bending a wrench to fit the area.
You may want to start with a FLARE WRENCH and work from there.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
Folks,
I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump. I thought
I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.
For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?
With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the
shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there. Is
there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?
Thanks,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try a
gain, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very smal
l amount of oil on the o ring.
Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.
If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube inst
ead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in mind k
eep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel s
ystem and cause a blockage.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Thanks - the info on the wrench is what I am hoping will work.....mine are O-ring
fittings...
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Andres
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try again,
don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very small amount
of oil on the o ring.Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you
in there.If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube
instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in
mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel
system and cause a blockage.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Good points Tim:
Ralph did inform me that they are indeed O ring sealed fittings.
So getting a high torque is NOT required. The O ring should be making the
seal and the threads would be a straight thread not a NPT.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
> Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and
> try again, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a
> very small amount of oil on the o ring.
> Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.
> If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube
> instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in
> mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the
> fuel system and cause a blockage.
> Tim
> Sent from my iPad
>
> **
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up,
as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring
type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you
can position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten
down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
No fun without the cooling shroud....
For my original installation, I got everything roughly in place and was able to
rotate for final position prior to snugging down the O-Ring nut - no special
sealant and tight enough that it took some force to rotate it again. There's
probably a torque value and I'll look for that in responses too!
-----Original Message-----
From: MLWynn(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened
them up, as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the
O ring type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is
that you can position the right angle into the correct location and then
tighten down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking
nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look at
it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a corr
esponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be proxim
ate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring forced
onto the threaded portion of the fitting.
I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a crow-fo
ot and a calculator to use it. Just cinch it down without getting carried a
way. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you tighten t
he nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to where y
ou started....
No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it whi
le you install it.
Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening the h
ose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, MLWynn(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump fitti
ngs on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up, a
s I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring typ
e fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you can
position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten down th
e locking nut to get the seal.
>
> Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the fittin
g pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the appropriat
e tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
>
> My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Finishing
> San Ramon, CA
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution |
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
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Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
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or by sending your personal check to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached |
This was very helpful. Thank you.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 11/28/2012 11:44:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look
at it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a
corresponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be
proximate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring
forced onto the threaded portion of the fitting.
I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a
crow-foot and a calculator to use it. Just cinch it down without getting
carried away. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you
tighten the nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to
where you started....
No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it
while you install it.
Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening the
hose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, _MLWynn(at)AOL.COM_ (mailto:MLWynn(at)AOL.COM)
wrote:
Hi guys,
Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump
fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8. I have not yet tightened them up,
as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do. They have the O ring
type fittings that Ralph described. As I understand, the idea is that you
can position the right angle into the correct location and then tighten
down the locking nut to get the seal.
Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this? Do I tighten down the
fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the
appropriate tightness? Is there a torque specification for the locking nut?
My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
==================================
ctric.com
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===================================
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===================================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
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Thank you in advance for your support!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Hey-Long time subscriber, zero-time contributor. Just a
note of thanks. This is first time I have the resources to
contribute. Thanks for carrying a lightweight for years and
a special thanks for your time and effort.
Billy R
My 601 hd is flying with the help with the listers.
Noel G
A very useful facility.
Graeme B
..great site!
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Great Pietenpol site!
Don Y
Not active but always interested in keeping up. Enjoy
when I can.
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Dave and Tim from Aircrafters just want to reiterate our
thanks for hosting the lists.
Tim F.
I don't have a lot to give at this time of year, but I
hope my contribution helps none the less. I really enjoy
the message board.
Mark C
Thanks to your continued work on maintaining these lists.
Ralph C
The lists and the various contributors have been a great
help while I was building and also now that I'm flying.
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Very helpful tools for the homebuilder.
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We appreciate your great help!
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Many of our customers have expressed to us that you
provide them with an invaluable service - and we agree!
Bill B
I Fly a Quicksilver GT400 but love to read what the Kolb
boys have to say and it was on your list that I found out
about the Yamaha product Ring Free,, now called engine med,
that shit works.. no carbon in my rings or any to speak of
with the use of the Yamaha product with a premix 503 with
over 300 hrs of use.. thanks to your Kolb bulletin board.
Robert B
You are providing a valuable service that helps a lot of
people through information sharing. When I built my
Pietenpol over 40 years ago we were largely on our own,
working without a resource like this list.
Graham H
Thanks for the opportunity to link us all, keep the good work!
Peter B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again;
number 49 actually! But it also means that its that last official day of
the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up
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Thank you to all in advance!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Engine combustion troubleshooting concepts |
Re-breaking in my engine after prop-strike by hangar door induced by tornado.
Considering the engine already had 160+ hours on it - I know how it was running
for a while.
I have one cylinder running not like the others. Before I tell what is happening,
I want to make sure I understand/remember the basic concepts.
EGT-only elevated - CHT reduced...unburned fuel going out exhaust and burning on
the way out - plug not firing
EGT-only elevated - ...unburned fuel going out exhaust and burning on the way out
- plug not firing completely
CHT-only elevated...not enough cooling air
EGT and CHT elevated...lean mixture - air leak
Refresh my memory here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine combustion troubleshooting concepts |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph:
Go to Electronics International web site and down load their
troubleshooting guide. It covers all sorts of combo's as you mention.
Barry
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Re-breaking in my engine after prop-strike by hangar door induced by
> tornado.
>
> Considering the engine already had 160+ hours on it - I know how it was
> running for a while.
>
> I have one cylinder running not like the others. Before I tell what is
> happening, I want to make sure I understand/remember the basic concepts.
>
> EGT-only elevated - CHT reduced...unburned fuel going out exhaust and
> burning on the way out - plug not firing
> EGT-only elevated - ...unburned fuel going out exhaust and burning on the
> way out - plug not firing completely
> CHT-only elevated...not enough cooling air
> EGT and CHT elevated...lean mixture - air leak
>
> Refresh my memory here.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine combustion troubleshooting concepts |
This one looks like a gold-mine of information - THANKS!
-----Original Message-----
From: FLYaDIVE
Sent: Dec 3, 2012 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Engine combustion troubleshooting concepts
Ralph:
Go to Electronics International web site and down load their troubleshooting guide.
It covers all sorts of combo's as you mention.
Barry
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
Re-breaking in my engine after prop-strike by hangar door induced by tornado.
Considering the engine already had 160+ hours on it - I know how it was running
for a while.
I have one cylinder running not like the others. Before I tell what is happening,
I want to make sure I understand/remember the basic concepts.
EGT-only elevated - CHT reduced...unburned fuel going out exhaust and burning on
the way out - plug not firing
EGT-only elevated - ...unburned fuel going out exhaust and burning on the way out
- plug not firing completely
CHT-only elevated...not enough cooling air
EGT and CHT elevated...lean mixture - air leak
Refresh my memory here.
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
FOR SALE
EGT PROBE
MICRO-1000
K TYPE
90 Deg smooth bend mounting tube
GROUNDED
CLAMP MOUNTING for the exhaust pipes
ACS PRICE $56 EA ---> $224 <--- This is HIGH
All 4 probes $180 <--- SAVE
Probes were used for less than one (1) hour
Let me know what type of connector end you require I will install them for
you FREE.
Need a Male - Female Connector ends? Will install for FREE and supply the
mating end for FREE.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2012 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about a week
ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. It is the
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You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
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Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
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I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and
I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
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Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
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Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Gang:
I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ
NEWSPAPER), Page 21.
Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!!
Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loaded
up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the
REGULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon???
But, the questions have to be asked:
1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep
prices high. Where was the control on the delivery?
2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles?
3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas?
5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is being
burned by surface vehicles? And...
6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ
in all their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except
for EMISSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you
had a load of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know...
WHO PAYS!
No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at this
time.
Maybe you have a few to ask?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
| From: | Ralph & Maria Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
Pretty sure that's where they had put jet fuel, not 100LL, into the car gas t
anks at the stations.
RF
On Dec 13, 2012, at 6:19, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Gang:
>
> I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER (NEWARK, NJ NE
WSPAPER), Page 21.
>
> Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION GAS!!!
>
> Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I would have loade
d up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High Test. Maybe it was in the REG
ULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon???
> But, the questions have to be asked:
> 1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as to keep pri
ces high. Where was the control on the delivery?
> 2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles?
> 3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
> 4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now been contaminated with MoGas
?
> 5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that LEAD is bein
g burned by surface vehicles? And...
> 6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ i
n all their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except for EMI
SSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't even know you had a loa
d of AvGas who pays for the repairs??? AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS!
>
> No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up with at thi
s time.
> Maybe you have a few to ask?
>
>
> Barry
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)agelesswings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AvGas Available at local MoGas Stations |
Yep, it was...the report I heard here on my local station said it
was jet-a...the cars that filled up with it quit running. I
doubt we would have heard many complaints if they had filled up
with 100LL!
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 12/13/2012 9:31 AM, Ralph & Maria Finch wrote:
> Pretty sure that's where they had put jet fuel, not 100LL, into
> the car gas tanks at the stations.
>
> RF
>
> On Dec 13, 2012, at 6:19, FLYaDIVE > wrote:
>
>> Gang:
>>
>> I was just informed of an article in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER
>> (NEWARK, NJ NEWSPAPER), Page 21.
>>
>> Gas Stations being shut down because they are selling AVIATION
>> GAS!!!
>>
>> Too bad I did not know which station were selling it... I
>> would have loaded up! Especially at $3.60 a Gallon. <-- High
>> Test. Maybe it was in the REGULAR Pumps at $3.26 a Gallon???
>> But, the questions have to be asked:
>> 1 - If there is so much control over AvGas <--- So they say as
>> to keep prices high. Where was the control on the delivery?
>> 2 - Was AvGAs put into uncontrolled MoGas delivery vehicles?
>> 3 - Was MoGas put into uncontrolled AvGas delivery vehicles?
>> 4 - Have the Controlled Delivery Vehicles now
>> been contaminated with MoGas?
>> 5 - OMG ! ! ! ... What will our Ever Vigilant EPA do now that
>> LEAD is being burned by surface vehicles? And...
>> 6 - Who picks up the $TAB$ on
>> the destroyed Catalytic Converters. <--- NJ in all
>> their wisdom has done away with automobile inspection. Except
>> for EMISSIONS TESTING. So, if your car fails and you don't
>> even know you had a load of AvGas who pays for the repairs???
>> AND even if you do know... WHO PAYS!
>>
>> No coffee as yet so these are the only questions I can come up
>> with at this time.
>> Maybe you have a few to ask?
>>
>>
>> Barry
>> *
>>
>> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A follow up to the AvGas MoGas Mix Up |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Six NJ Gas Stations Mistakenly Fed
100LL<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/100LL_delivered_new_jersey_gas_stations_lead_fuel_207840-1.html>
-
(Dec 12 2012)
The state of New Jersey confirmed Wednesday that six automotive gas
stations received and sold leaded aviation fuel to drivers before the
mistake was discovered and the sales were shut down. The fuel was delivered
by eight tankers between Dec. 5 and Dec. 7 to six gas stations owned by the
same company. In a statement from the Division of Consumer Affairs, the
fuel was not directly identified as 100LL. The agency said the fuel was
"rated at 104.7 octane compared to 93 octane for super unleaded," and
contained "a small amount of lead." It was mistakenly sold to motorists as
super unleaded. According to the agency, it "should not cause damage to
vehicles engines." Click through for a link to the release from Consumer
Affairs and a list of affected stations.
This is from the AV WEB site:
http://www.avweb.com/cgi-bin/texis/scripts/avweb-search/search.html?query=aviation+gas&x=43&y=11
They think it will not affect the engine... The engine NO! But
the Catalytic Converter and maybe the O2 Sensor and the MAP Sensor?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)agelesswings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A follow up to the AvGas MoGas Mix Up |
I wasn't kidding when I said I heard it was jet fuel, not
100LL...Is it something with the state of New jersey? I hadn't
heard about the 100LL mixup. This is the report I heard locally,
and found here:
www.businessinsider.com/nj-gas-station-fills-cars-with-jet-fuel-2012-12
An excerpt from the report:
"Cars were unknowingly filled with jet fuel yesterday after a
fuel delivery service
<http://www.businessinsider.com/nj-gas-station-fills-cars-with-jet-fuel-2012-12#>
accidentally filled a pump at a Keyport, New Jersey gas station
with kerosene, CBS New York reported
<http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/09/cars-stall-out-after-jet-fuel-is-delivered-to-new-jersey-gas-station/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter>.
After filling up, the cars stalled. Car engines cannot combust
jet fuel
A Lukoil station in Manasquan, New Jersey, also received the jet
fuel"
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 12/13/2012 10:28 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Six NJ Gas Stations Mistakenly Fed 100LL
> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/100LL_delivered_new_jersey_gas_stations_lead_fuel_207840-1.html> -
> (Dec 12 2012)
>
> The state of New Jersey confirmed Wednesday that six automotive
> gas stations received and sold leaded aviation fuel to drivers
> before the mistake was discovered and the sales were shut down.
> The fuel was delivered by eight tankers between Dec. 5 and Dec.
> 7 to six gas stations owned by the same company. In a statement
> from the Division of Consumer Affairs, the fuel was not
> directly identified as 100LL. The agency said the fuel was
> "rated at 104.7 octane compared to 93 octane for super
> unleaded," and contained "a small amount of lead." It was
> mistakenly sold to motorists as super unleaded. According to
> the agency, it "should not cause damage to vehicles
> engines." Click through for a link to the release from Consumer
> Affairs and a list of affected stations.
>
> This is from the AV WEB site:
> http://www.avweb.com/cgi-bin/texis/scripts/avweb-search/search.html?query=aviation+gas&x=43&y=11
>
> They think it will not affect the engine... The engine NO! But
> the Catalytic Converter and maybe the O2 Sensor and the MAP Sensor?
>
>
> Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | More combustion concepts |
Did some vacuum hunting prior to my most recent flight and rebuilt the MAP sensor
hoses that go to the suspect cylinder. Still have consistently high EGT on
that cylinder only.
Cycling the magnetos shows elevated egt regardless of which magneto is running....even
the LASAR electronic ignition. I have verified the base timing for when
in the magneto mode.
My conceptual thinking here is that both plugs for that cylinder are firing.
Leaving mixture as the culprit...
CHT's are within the range for the other three cylinders.
My conceptual thinking here is that the ignition is lean and completely igniting.
When I returned, I opened everything up again and pulled the intake runner for
that cylinder. The rubber connecting hose looked fine but the top gasket ahad
a couple of spots that looked like they were not forced in to contact with the
head - and could leak. I replaced the gasket and carefully aligned the tube
while putting it back together.
I'm also replacing the EGT sensor just in case. I have had a sensor failure before
but it indicated lower than normal readings instead of higher.
My conceptual thinking here is that the thermocouple effect would fail low instead
of high - but I don't plan to take that one to the bank....
Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More combustion concepts |
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Not sure I follow. The actual EGT reading is dependent on many factors, so the
reading itself is of little value other that to demonstrate very abnormal conditions
(a dead cylinder as example).
As you report the CHTs are comparable, and without knowing relationship between
cylinder to cylinder fuel flow at peak EGT, I would guess you don't have a problem.
If on the other hand the cylinder in question is first to peak and there
is a significant fuel flow change to get the next cylinder to peak, then I
would agree with the conclusion that the cylinder in question has a leaner mixture
than the others.
The data run I suggest you do is to establish cruise conditions at 5K-7K feet,
2400 RPM, 23"-24" MP. Lean to get the first cylinder to peak EGT and record fuel
flow. Continue leaning to get to the second cylinder to peak and record fuel
flow and degrees lean of peak on the first cylinder, repeat for the next two
cylinders.
A nicely matched engine will run smooth LOP with all cylinders within 20 to 50
degrees on the lean side of whatever temperature was peak EGT for that cylinder.
Again, as the EGT reading is very sensitive to sensor location and clocking on
the exhaust pipe, the EGT value itself has little meaning. The "Degrees LOP or
ROP" comparison between the cylinders as well as having each cylinder peak at
about the same fuel flow tells you if you have a problem or not.
Carl
On Dec 17, 2012, at 4:49 PM, "Ralph E. Capen" wrote:
>
> Did some vacuum hunting prior to my most recent flight and rebuilt the MAP sensor
hoses that go to the suspect cylinder. Still have consistently high EGT
on that cylinder only.
>
> Cycling the magnetos shows elevated egt regardless of which magneto is running....even
the LASAR electronic ignition. I have verified the base timing for
when in the magneto mode.
>
> My conceptual thinking here is that both plugs for that cylinder are firing.
> Leaving mixture as the culprit...
>
> CHT's are within the range for the other three cylinders.
> My conceptual thinking here is that the ignition is lean and completely igniting.
>
> When I returned, I opened everything up again and pulled the intake runner for
that cylinder. The rubber connecting hose looked fine but the top gasket ahad
a couple of spots that looked like they were not forced in to contact with
the head - and could leak. I replaced the gasket and carefully aligned the tube
while putting it back together.
>
> I'm also replacing the EGT sensor just in case. I have had a sensor failure
before but it indicated lower than normal readings instead of higher.
> My conceptual thinking here is that the thermocouple effect would fail low instead
of high - but I don't plan to take that one to the bank....
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More combustion concepts |
Carl - thanks for your insight - prior to the teardown (hangar door blown in to
prop by tornado), I had the cylinders balanced for LOP to within .1gph fuel flow.
I have the instrumentation to record the data you have described and had
already used it to balance the flows. I haven't run the peak test you've described
yet due to fear of toasting my cylinder.
I will be replacing the EGT probe prior to next flight since I have a spare on
hand.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Dec 17, 2012 5:55 PM
>To: "lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: More combustion concepts
>
>
>Not sure I follow. The actual EGT reading is dependent on many factors, so the
reading itself is of little value other that to demonstrate very abnormal conditions
(a dead cylinder as example).
>
>As you report the CHTs are comparable, and without knowing relationship between
cylinder to cylinder fuel flow at peak EGT, I would guess you don't have a problem.
If on the other hand the cylinder in question is first to peak and there
is a significant fuel flow change to get the next cylinder to peak, then I
would agree with the conclusion that the cylinder in question has a leaner mixture
than the others.
>
>The data run I suggest you do is to establish cruise conditions at 5K-7K feet,
2400 RPM, 23"-24" MP. Lean to get the first cylinder to peak EGT and record
fuel flow. Continue leaning to get to the second cylinder to peak and record
fuel flow and degrees lean of peak on the first cylinder, repeat for the next
two cylinders.
>
>A nicely matched engine will run smooth LOP with all cylinders within 20 to 50
degrees on the lean side of whatever temperature was peak EGT for that cylinder.
>
>Again, as the EGT reading is very sensitive to sensor location and clocking on
the exhaust pipe, the EGT value itself has little meaning. The "Degrees LOP
or ROP" comparison between the cylinders as well as having each cylinder peak
at about the same fuel flow tells you if you have a problem or not.
>
>Carl
>
>On Dec 17, 2012, at 4:49 PM, "Ralph E. Capen" wrote:
>
>>
>> Did some vacuum hunting prior to my most recent flight and rebuilt the MAP sensor
hoses that go to the suspect cylinder. Still have consistently high EGT
on that cylinder only.
>>
>> Cycling the magnetos shows elevated egt regardless of which magneto is running....even
the LASAR electronic ignition. I have verified the base timing for
when in the magneto mode.
>>
>> My conceptual thinking here is that both plugs for that cylinder are firing.
>> Leaving mixture as the culprit...
>>
>> CHT's are within the range for the other three cylinders.
>> My conceptual thinking here is that the ignition is lean and completely igniting.
>>
>> When I returned, I opened everything up again and pulled the intake runner for
that cylinder. The rubber connecting hose looked fine but the top gasket ahad
a couple of spots that looked like they were not forced in to contact with
the head - and could leak. I replaced the gasket and carefully aligned the tube
while putting it back together.
>>
>> I'm also replacing the EGT sensor just in case. I have had a sensor failure
before but it indicated lower than normal readings instead of higher.
>> My conceptual thinking here is that the thermocouple effect would fail low instead
of high - but I don't plan to take that one to the bank....
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Combustion concepts - results! |
Just to come full circle with this...
I was seeing elevated EGT on my #4 cylinder and CHT normal...
First, I checked the spark plugs for the #4 cylinder to look for evidence of shorting
across the gap / non firing. Didn't find anything abnormal. Cleaned both
plugs and reinstalled with new gaskets.
Second, I disassembled and cleaned the fuel injector and feed tubing for the #4
cylinder. Didn't' find anything abnormal. Put everything back together and
tightened to spec.
Third, I tested the MAP sensor tubing as it is attached to the #4 primer port...found
it leaked...replaced the hoses and added some of the 37 degree gaskets
to the associated AN fittings. Both sensors attached and the entire system holds
vacuum that they would normally encounter from the intake system.
Thinking I had the 'smoking gun', I buttoned everything back up. The subsequent
test flight showed the EGT for #4 still elevated and CHT normal. The EGT graphs
showed the temp initially about 170 degrees higher than the other three (as
previously recorded 'normal) then fluctuating from 400-500 degrees - bouncing
up and down fairly erratically.
The first part of that flight made me think that I probably have another intake
leak - while the latter part made me think that I might also now have a bad EGT
sensor, sooooo...
Fourth, I removed the intake runner for that cylinder to see what I could see.
I found what appeared to be an intake gasket that wasn't deformed with a contact
compression imprint on the cylinder head side. The intake runner side was
well deformed - leading me to think the runner may not have been 'square' when
the collar bolts were initially tightened. Lucky for me, I had a spare gasket
which I installed and was careful to seat properly. The associated rubber
connecting hose appeared to be intact so it was reinstalled and tightened to spec.
Fifth, I replaced the EGT sensor for the #4 cylinder. I have had an EGT sensor
failure before and the tip was burned open with the readings being low and bouncy.
Didn't find anything abnormal on the removed sensor - but I had a fresh
one available so in it went.
Hoping since I have made two changes to the system and not being able to think
of other possibilities (not involving the cylinder) that it should be fixed -
time to close everything up and go for another test flight.
SUCCESS - between the intake runner to cylinder head gasket, the re-torquing of
the connecting hose, and the new EGT sensor, we're back to a steady-state and
can continue with the engine break-in cycle. I think the old EGT sensor will
find its way to the trash-can right next to the intake gasket - so I don't even
think of trying to re-use it.
Thanks to all for their wisdom and experience!
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Viorel Nichols <viorel.nichols(at)yahoo.com> |
Away on holiday from the 22 December 2012 till 29 January 2013
Wishing you a happy festive season .
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
from
Viorel ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | SLICK / LASAR manuals |
Does anyone have an electronic copy of the F-1100 Slick Master Service
Manual (not just the index) and the L-1500 LASAR Ignition System Master
Service Manual?
Would like to borrow and figure out the 500 hour rebuild requirement..
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS: Rear Induction Sump |
| From: | "ronschreck" <ronschreck(at)windstream.net> |
Rear induction sump and intake tubes for Lyc O/IO-360. Sell for $500 including
CONUS shipping or trade for front/bottom induction sump and intake tubes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394566#394566
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_20120119_1438231_168.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Great Flight - Bad Freq's |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Gang:
Maybe this is slightly related to the FAA inspector and the POH issue.
Saturday, I had a Great Flight out to Nantucket (KACK) for
the Daffodil Festival. But it did not start out that way.
I was flying out of Solberg (N51) in NJ. They have a VOR right on the
field that has been down for maintenance for a while and there is a RCO for
NY TRACON either in the VOR building or very close by. Well, I tried about
6 times while on the ground to contact NYAPCH... Three times on each radio
- No luck - Then I tried once more, after I got to pattern altitude - No
luck - So I changed frequency to 132.8 - No luck, of course I tried a few
times on each Comm. Then switch frequencies to 126.4 and 127.8 - NO LUCK!
While all of this radio work was going on I slowed down the plane and
stayed at 2500' so as not to bust the NY Class B. I was flying with Susan
and she suggested I contact Morristown (KMMU) since, we were getting close
to their airspace. GREAT SUGGESTION! When I contacted them I explained I
could NOT raise NY APCH on any of the frequencies, they told me to
"stand-by". . . . . . . . . . They said, try 120.4, now that frequency is
NOT on my Cheat Sheet of 10 frequencies. I gave them a call and BINGO!
Not the fuel - ATC Answered. I Requested my heading and an altitude of
5500' - They cleared me into Class B, on my heading and to my requested
altitude.
So, what went wrong with the other four frequencies and the 19 times of
trying to contact them?
And how does this relate to the POH issue?
It was suggested that the FAA is protesting the obama Budget Cuts - This
could be their own version of the Blue Flu or an obama Backfire. Now, we
all pick on the FAA at some point or another. But, if this is what is
truly happening, the FAA could use our help and it is time that us GA
pilots stand behind the FAA. Matter of fact, we should do something. If
this is the way it is NOW before the tower closings it will only get worse
once the towers are closed... Flight Following FORGET IT! Remember the
Pay As You Go proposal that was voted down? If the towers close, how do
you think they will get the money to reopen them? PAY AS YOU GO! ! !
So, who should I call, who should I be writing my letters to?
*Barry*
*PS: GANG - Put that frequency on your Cheat Sheet.*
*VOR (SBJ) - Still Down - They are transmitting voice and radial signal -
But, there is NO Morse Code. You know what that means!*
*=93Chop=92d Liver=94*
*"The reason Benjamin Franklin was such a great inventor was everything lay
before him. The reason why we don't have great inventors today is,
everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel"*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Great Flight - Bad Freq's |
So, how did your Lycoming Engine Run?
John Grosse
> FLYaDIVE
> April 28, 2013 10:03 PM
> Gang:
>
> Maybe this is slightly related to the FAA inspector and the POH issue.
> Saturday, I had a Great Flight out to Nantucket (KACK) for the
> Daffodil Festival. But it did not start out that way.
> I was flying out of Solberg (N51) in NJ. They have a VOR right on the
> field that has been down for maintenance for a while and there is a
> RCO for NY TRACON either in the VOR building or very close by. Well, I
> tried about 6 times while on the ground to contact NYAPCH... Three
> times on each radio - No luck - Then I tried once more, after I got to
> pattern altitude - No luck - So I changed frequency to 132.8 - No
> luck, of course I tried a few times on each Comm. Then switch
> frequencies to 126.4 and 127.8 - NO LUCK! While all of this radio work
> was going on I slowed down the plane and stayed at 2500' so as not to
> bust the NY Class B. I was flying with Susan and she suggested I
> contact Morristown (KMMU) since, we were getting close to their
> airspace. GREAT SUGGESTION! When I contacted them I explained I could
> NOT raise NY APCH on any of the frequencies, they told me to
> "stand-by". . . . . . . . . . They said, try 120.4, now that frequency
> is NOT on my Cheat Sheet of 10 frequencies. I gave them a call and
> BINGO! Not the fuel - ATC Answered. I Requested my heading and an
> altitude of 5500' - They cleared me into Class B, on my heading and to
> my requested altitude.
>
> So, what went wrong with the other four frequencies and the 19 times
> of trying to contact them?
> And how does this relate to the POH issue?
> It was suggested that the FAA is protesting the obama Budget Cuts -
> This could be their own version of the Blue Flu or an obama Backfire.
> Now, we all pick on the FAA at some point or another. But, if this is
> what is truly happening, the FAA could use our help and it is time
> that us GA pilots stand behind the FAA. Matter of fact, we should do
> something. If this is the way it is NOW before the tower closings it
> will only get worse once the towers are closed... Flight Following
> FORGET IT! Remember the Pay As You Go proposal that was voted down? If
> the towers close, how do you think they will get the money to reopen
> them? PAY AS YOU GO! ! !
> So, who should I call, who should I be writing my letters to?
>
> *Barry*
>
> *PS: GANG - Put that frequency on your Cheat Sheet.*
>
> *VOR (SBJ) - Still Down - They are transmitting voice and radial
> signal - But, there is NO Morse Code. You know what that means!*
>
> *Chopd Liver*
>
> *"The reason Benjamin Franklin was such a great inventor was
> everything lay before him. The reason why we don't have great
> inventors today is, everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel"*
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Great Flight - Bad Freq's |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Hi John:
The engine ran GREAT - 2.5 Hrs each way and not a hiccup. I could
not believe this, but CHT on all cylinders never got above 340 F and that
was during take-off, in cruz I was seeing only 304 F.
Yup, very happy with the engine ;-)
*Barry*
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 1:57 PM, John Grosse wrote:
> grosseair(at)comcast.net>
>
> So, how did your Lycoming Engine Run?
>
> John Grosse
>
> FLYaDIVE
>> April 28, 2013 10:03 PM
>> Gang:
>>
>> Maybe this is slightly related to the FAA inspector and the POH issue.
>> Saturday, I had a Great Flight out to Nantucket (KACK) for the Daffodil
>> Festival. But it did not start out that way.
>> I was flying out of Solberg (N51) in NJ. They have a VOR right on the
>> field that has been down for maintenance for a while and there is a RCO
for
>> NY TRACON either in the VOR building or very close by. Well, I tried abo
ut
>> 6 times while on the ground to contact NYAPCH... Three times on each rad
io
>> - No luck - Then I tried once more, after I got to pattern altitude - No
>> luck - So I changed frequency to 132.8 - No luck, of course I tried a fe
w
>> times on each Comm. Then switch frequencies to 126.4 and 127.8 - NO LUCK
!
>> While all of this radio work was going on I slowed down the plane and
>> stayed at 2500' so as not to bust the NY Class B. I was flying with Susa
n
>> and she suggested I contact Morristown (KMMU) since, we were getting clo
se
>> to their airspace. GREAT SUGGESTION! When I contacted them I explained I
>> could NOT raise NY APCH on any of the frequencies, they told me to
>> "stand-by". . . . . . . . . . They said, try 120.4, now that frequency i
s
>> NOT on my Cheat Sheet of 10 frequencies. I gave them a call and BINGO! N
ot
>> the fuel - ATC Answered. I Requested my heading and an altitude of 5500'
-
>> They cleared me into Class B, on my heading and to my requested altitude
.
>>
>> So, what went wrong with the other four frequencies and the 19 times of
>> trying to contact them?
>> And how does this relate to the POH issue?
>> It was suggested that the FAA is protesting the obama Budget Cuts - This
>> could be their own version of the Blue Flu or an obama Backfire. Now, we
>> all pick on the FAA at some point or another. But, if this is what is tr
uly
>> happening, the FAA could use our help and it is time that us GA pilots
>> stand behind the FAA. Matter of fact, we should do something. If this is
>> the way it is NOW before the tower closings it will only get worse once
the
>> towers are closed... Flight Following FORGET IT! Remember the Pay As You
Go
>> proposal that was voted down? If the towers close, how do you think they
>> will get the money to reopen them? PAY AS YOU GO! ! !
>> So, who should I call, who should I be writing my letters to?
>>
>> *Barry*
>>
>> *PS: GANG - Put that frequency on your Cheat Sheet.*
>>
>> *VOR (SBJ) - Still Down - They are transmitting voice and radial signal
-
>> But, there is NO Morse Code. You know what that means!*
>>
>> *=93Chop=92d Liver=94*
>>
>> *"The reason Benjamin Franklin was such a great inventor was everything
>> lay before him. The reason why we don't have great inventors today is,
>> everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel"*
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org> |
| Subject: | O-320 Cylinder Heads Different Temperatures |
According to the Vision Microsystems VMS 1000C display in my aircraft
the temperatures of the cylinder heads differ when in flight. Could that
cause problems? If so, what, and how can I remedy this?
Thanks.
George Nielsen
RV-6 PH-XGN
The Hague, the Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Cylinder Heads Different Temperatures |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Can you better explain the temperatures and temperature differentials by cylinder?
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 sold :-(
RV-10 flying :-)
KitFox SS7 Radial building :-)
On May 11, 2013, at 2:37 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
> According to the Vision Microsystems VMS 1000C display in my aircraft the temperatures
of the cylinder heads differ when in flight. Could that cause problems?
If so, what, and how can I remedy this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> George Nielsen
> RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Cylinder Heads Different Temperatures |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
George:
A temperature differential (delta) between both CHT & EGT that is poorly
considered acceptable at 50 Deg F between cylinders.
I think that is VERY POOR. I am seeing ONLY 15 Deg F delta on CHT. And in
real cold days (32 F/0C) the delta drops down to about 5 Deg F on CHT's. I
am not concerned with the delta on EGT's but I am on CHT's. I monitor
CHT's during flight. As far as EGT's go... I can lean just as well with
the EAR as with the EGT.
So, how do you control the delta? A REAL tight fitting baffling system or
plenum. I am luck as I have baffles. By controlling the fit around the
starter ring gear, size of cowl exhaust ramps/flaps, fit of top to bottom
of cowl, oil cooler location, and those highly forgotten little pieces of
aluminum in front of cylinders 1 & 2. You can get the temps down. AND
don't forget to install those fiberglass blisters INSIDE the cowl... You
know, the two just after the intake ports - Mounted on the top of the cowl.
DON'T ASK!
I have also found the two louver vents on the bottom of the cowl work
GREAT!
Cooler engine and NO CO issues.
*Barry*
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 2:37 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
> genie(at)swissmail.org>
>
> According to the Vision Microsystems VMS 1000C display in my aircraft the
> temperatures of the cylinder heads differ when in flight. Could that cause
> problems? If so, what, and how can I remedy this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> George Nielsen
> RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Approval of 93UL vs STC |
If you have one of the engines that Lycoming recently approved for 93UL, do you
still need the STC in order to operate (legally) with the newly approved fuel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IO-540 Cylinders |
| From: | "mds4878" <mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com> |
I have a IO-540-C4B5 and I'm getting ready to buy new cylinders.
What is the best cylinder to buy.
Lycoming. 05K21102
ECI Nickel TISN10.1CA
ECI Steel TIST10.1CA
Millennium SL36006N-A20P
I think all of these are correct but what does everyone think is the best ones
to buy? Please give your opinion.
[Question] [Question]
--------
RV-10 #40447
Fuselage almost done.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406110#406110
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Cylinders |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
You might as well ask everyone what religion they are!
The engine I bought had corroded cylinders on an a low hour Lycoming reman. We
found it during pre purchase inspection.
I didn't want to worry about that happening again so I sprung for new ECI nickel
power assemblies. I have no complaints with it, oil consumption is not what
I had hoped for at around 8hr/qt. but that's typical of these with some few claiming
much better.
When comparing prices be aware Lycoming kits come with the pin, ECI does not so
there is $50 less savings. Not sure what Supierior does, they were not around
when I shopped.
J&J had the best prices at the time, no complaints on them from me!
Really the people to ask would be Bart at Aerosport or Barrett engines.
Also Lycon will sell you new Lycoming CNC ported-by-them jugs for I think another
$400 ea.
Good luck on your decision!
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 6:52 PM, "mds4878" wrote:
>
> I have a IO-540-C4B5 and I'm getting ready to buy new cylinders.
> What is the best cylinder to buy.
> Lycoming. 05K21102
> ECI Nickel TISN10.1CA
> ECI Steel TIST10.1CA
> Millennium SL36006N-A20P
> I think all of these are correct but what does everyone think is the best ones
to buy? Please give your opinion.
> [Question] [Question]
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40447
> Fuselage almost done.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406110#406110
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Elaine Lamphere <dalamphere(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Cylinders |
We've had good luck with Millennium cylinders here at CJR.
Dave
On Aug 6, 2013, at 9:52 PM, mds4878 wrote:
> >
>
> I have a IO-540-C4B5 and I'm getting ready to buy new cylinders.
> What is the best cylinder to buy.
> Lycoming. 05K21102
> ECI Nickel TISN10.1CA
> ECI Steel TIST10.1CA
> Millennium SL36006N-A20P
> I think all of these are correct but what does everyone think is the
> best ones to buy? Please give your opinion.
> [Question] [Question]
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40447
> Fuselage almost done.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406110#406110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Cylinders |
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
*Mike:*
*
*
*Great question but unfortunately the responses will be opinions and there
is a saying about 'opinions': Opinions are like assholes, everybody's hs
one and they all stink!*
*
*
*But, since you asked for an opinion here you go AND I will supply as much
fact as I know.*
*
*
*Lycoming - NO WAY! *
*Lycoming has been in business for many, many years and reviewing their
history they have made very little efforts in the way of progress.
Consider the amount of AD's against Lycoming products and their recent
(maybe 4 years old at this time) court case of Bad Steel for the crank
shaft. Yes, the case was won in their favor but it was a case of who had
deeper pockets and they did. They have great lawyers. And it is the
lawyers that run Lycoming, NOT the engineers. The only time they make
changes is when forced to by law suits.*
*Think of all the advancements throughout the engine industry and look
where they are now. Only as far as the lawyers will let them.*
*OK - Enough - I'm a bit confident in that you understand where I
am coming from, let's move on.*
*
*
*ECI - YES, but a difficult decision.*
*ECI has gone through some rough times with a Very Expensive AD on their
cylinders. They have made changes. They have Highly Supported their
customers with the swapping of old cylinders for New -
new Design cylinders. AND they have the Eye of the Tiger. Many a company
would have rolled over and closed their doors and filed for Chapter 11.
They did not! I would suggest you call ECI and talk to a few people there
and see if you get the Warm Fuzzy feeling that inspires confidence.*
*Now to talk Nickel Vs Steel cylinders. *
*Here I can supply you with lots of REAL information. I worked for many
years in the metal coating industry as a QA Engineer/Manager and as
a Technical Sales Engineer. Here are some simple facts:*
*1 - Steel is harder than Nickel.*
*2 - The nickel can be applied through two processes - *
*a> *Electroplating *which requires electrodes to be place inside the
cylinders and is known to NOT give a uniform coating, and *
*b> Electroless plating which is a much more uniform coating. And is less
time consuming and therefore less expensive. My money would be that the
cylinders are Electroless Plates.*
*The next question is which will last longer, Steel or Nickel?*
*The answer is STEEL! Steel will have a hardness in the range of 65 to 85
Rockwell C.*
*Nickel is NOWHERE near that. Matter of FACT! Nickel hardness is NOT
rated in Rockwell it is rated in Vickers with some people using Brindle and
THEN mathematically or via a chart converted over to Rockwell. the Vickers
range is 485 to 750 Vhn. Problem here is the NUMBERS LIE! Look up the
conversion between Vickers to Rockwell and you will find three charts...
Pick one! They all lie.*
*Other Things to Consider:*
*1 - Nickel would be applied in a thin coating of about 0.003" Thick for
this type of cylinder application. MANY times not even that thick... Maybe
0.0007 to 0.001"*
*2 - BONDING of the Nickel to the steel barrel is a MAJOR concern - Read
that as a PROBLEM. Nickel does NOT bond well to hardened base materials.
ACIDS should be used to help the bonding BUT - Acids cause
Hydrogen Embrittlement.*
*I'm not going into that - you can look it up.*
*3 - To harden nickel you heat it at 500 to 700 F preferably in a electric
oven. <-- CO$Tly... Do you think many companies will do that? What do you
think REHEATING (under operation) it will do at say 1500 F? Do you think
it will last long?*
*4 - WARE - Now you are going to take a hardened steel, the Rings (Rockwell
70 to 90 Rc) and rub them against Nickel... Do you really think the nickel
will last long?*
*5 - The sales point of nickel is corrosion** protection. Sure! Buy the
engine, never run the engine and the barrels will last long... All the
other ferrous parts will rust through. *
*6 - CHROME - You did not mention it, but I will: Very difficult to get a
uniform coating because it is; or should be, a **trivalent Electroplating
process. VERY HARD - Very Difficult to get the rings to seat. Usually
results in high oil consumption. Because of these issues, that is why
the advertising department - NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE ENGINEERS have switched to
nickel. Still a poor choice.*
*
*
*BOTTOM LINE on Steel Vs Nickel/Chrome... GO WITH STEEL.*
*
*
*NOW, just to muddy the waters (confuse things) just a little more: There
are two different ways of achieving hardness in steel barrels:*
*a> Flame Hardening a.k.a. Heat Treating and *
*b> Nitriding - Chemically hardening. *
*
*
*Both are GOOD - The difference is CO$T. Flame hardening is the more
expensive. The next question you should be thinking about is: How deep is
the barrel treated? In both methods it is about 0.040" Deep. That means
IF you keep your cylinders for three overhauls you will still have enough
material to work with. An overhaul increases the size of the cylinder by
0.010" EACH TIME. That means a 0.005" cut each time plus the ware of say
0.005". More than enough hardened thickness.*
*
*
*Millennium Cylinders - All the same above applies. They also had their
share of AD's. There was one on the pistons for porosity, I believe that
affected all manufactures since they were all buying from
the Brazilian manufacturer. *
*My Lycoming O-320 had Millennium Superior Cylinders - One thing I really
liked about them was the fins were NOT painted - They were Hard
Coat Anodized. This helped tremendously in keeping the engine cool, a much
better heat transfer. Paint acts like a blanket, the anodizing offered a
bare and textured surface to the flow of air.*
*
*
*Last point: On COOLING - Lycoming HAS very POOR castings with lots of
flashing in and around the fins, especially around the spark plug. Before
you install the cylinders check the flashing in those areas. You will have
a hard time believing this but: I cleaned up the flashing on an O-360 and
the CHT's dropped 40 F... YES, No lie, a drop of 40 Degrees F. Clean up
was done with a few 1/8" round files.*
*
*
*Hope all this info helps.*
*
*
*Barry*
*
*
*
*
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:52 PM, mds4878 wrote:
> mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com>
>
> I have a IO-540-C4B5 and I'm getting ready to buy new cylinders.
> What is the best cylinder to buy.
> Lycoming. 05K21102
> ECI Nickel TISN10.1CA
> ECI Steel TIST10.1CA
> Millennium SL36006N-A20P
> I think all of these are correct but what does everyone think is the best
> ones to buy? Please give your opinion.
> [Question] [Question]
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40447
> Fuselage almost done.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Cylinders |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Barry,
Lots of good information. The subject of Hydrogen Embrittlement should be
studied by most Amateur Builders. I find few that take the time (for
whatever reason and you won't find it on the archives). Use of the wrong
chemicals or processes can shorten the life of an aircraft or in your
example the engine long before it should.
I have seen Nitrided cylinders which tend to corrode more rapidly than
Steel due to high humidity environments such as Oregon, much quicker than
the steel. I have seen older chromed cylinders begin to flake off using a
boroscope after the oil sample sent out an alarm on normal screening. All
of your points are great to consider. The area not discussed is a well
executed break-in. Personally, and treading carefully on your "Opinion"
statement, I am a strong advocate on Barrett's dyno'ed printout. Let me go
out on a limb and say that paying the extra for them to "Run it longer" to
complete a sound break-in seems like a wise thing to do when strapping a
new engine onto a new airframe during the Phase One. Oil consumption can
be significantly altered by a correctly broken in powerplant. Most
builders tackle cooling issues simultaneously while tending to Flight
Characteristics and build nuisances. The Nall Report shows we as
Experimental builders contribute to a higher incident of accident's by
doing too much simultaneously during Phase One. I unfortunately know of
too many who cut corners during this key step in the build process.
I concur that Bart or Rhonda would be excellent starting points. I respect
Jesse's experience as he now has far more engines out there than most
builders see in a lifetime of building. Your post was illuminating.
Another factor is Use or lack thereof. The average AB aircraft MIGHT see
40-50 hours a year. It also sees unfortunately large periods of dormant
storage. Flying only once a month or even just once a week has a big
impact on wear. Flying everyday makes a significant reduction in wear. Most
of us can't meet that requirement unless we share the use of the airframe
with a friend. Bringing an engine up to temperature prior to start-up
rotation closes gaps, increases oil delivery and significantly reduces
wear. Reiff heaters when properly used have a great Cost/Benefit. They
are not just for the faint of heart North of the Mason/Dixon line in the
winter. Higher rpms above Idle Cutoff helps in keeping down Klinker
development and uneven exhaust valve seating (750 to 850) due to additional
heat generated. Few operators run Lean of Peak for Ground Idle or Warmup.
An interesting digression.
I have seen a lot of powerplants go well beyond TBO (Lycoming recommended
Overhaul) through judicious use of common sense and sound practices.
Everything over TBO is free engine cost. Everything well short of TBO
should be a case study in Pilot Operation, Operator knowledge and other
physical factors. In our group it is often, "It couldn't be me..... it
must be faulty manufacturing". My impression was the question was a search
for the best longevity. It could be misread as the Cheapest Cost.
Fortunately that should not be the issue. Technical Support and Warranty
policies are two others. Hence Rhonda or Bart.
Frequent Oil samples early in the first 250 hours during break-in, dropped
off to annually just before Conditional Inspection with Oil Change and
increased at the period 1500 hours and even more frequently in the 1800 to
2000 and beyond. I am always amazed at the whining over its cost. Guess
it is just like the cost of Avgas 100.
John Cox
still grinning from OSH '13
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:52 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> *Mike:*
> *
> *
> *Great question but unfortunately the responses will be opinions and
> there is a saying about 'opinions': Opinions are like assholes, everybody's
> hs one and they all stink!*
> *
> *
> *But, since you asked for an opinion here you go AND I will supply as
> much fact as I know.*
> *
> *
> *Lycoming - NO WAY! *
> *Lycoming has been in business for many, many years and reviewing their
> history they have made very little efforts in the way of progress.
> Consider the amount of AD's against Lycoming products and their recent
> (maybe 4 years old at this time) court case of Bad Steel for the crank
> shaft. Yes, the case was won in their favor but it was a case of who had
> deeper pockets and they did. They have great lawyers. And it is the
> lawyers that run Lycoming, NOT the engineers. The only time they make
> changes is when forced to by law suits.*
> *Think of all the advancements throughout the engine industry and look
> where they are now. Only as far as the lawyers will let them.*
> *OK - Enough - I'm a bit confident in that you understand where I
> am coming from, let's move on.*
> *
> *
> *ECI - YES, but a difficult decision.*
> *ECI has gone through some rough times with a Very Expensive AD on their
> cylinders. They have made changes. They have Highly Supported their
> customers with the swapping of old cylinders for New -
> new Design cylinders. AND they have the Eye of the Tiger. Many a company
> would have rolled over and closed their doors and filed for Chapter 11.
> They did not! I would suggest you call ECI and talk to a few people there
> and see if you get the Warm Fuzzy feeling that inspires confidence.*
> *Now to talk Nickel Vs Steel cylinders. *
> *Here I can supply you with lots of REAL information. I worked for many
> years in the metal coating industry as a QA Engineer/Manager and as
> a Technical Sales Engineer. Here are some simple facts:*
> *1 - Steel is harder than Nickel.*
> *2 - The nickel can be applied through two processes - *
> *a> *Electroplating *which requires electrodes to be place inside the
> cylinders and is known to NOT give a uniform coating, and *
> *b> Electroless plating which is a much more uniform coating. And is
> less time consuming and therefore less expensive. My money would be that
> the cylinders are Electroless Plates.*
> *The next question is which will last longer, Steel or Nickel?*
> *The answer is STEEL! Steel will have a hardness in the range of 65 to
> 85 Rockwell C.*
> *Nickel is NOWHERE near that. Matter of FACT! Nickel hardness is NOT
> rated in Rockwell it is rated in Vickers with some people using Brindle and
> THEN mathematically or via a chart converted over to Rockwell. the Vickers
> range is 485 to 750 Vhn. Problem here is the NUMBERS LIE! Look up the
> conversion between Vickers to Rockwell and you will find three charts...
> Pick one! They all lie.*
> *Other Things to Consider:*
> *1 - Nickel would be applied in a thin coating of about 0.003" Thick for
> this type of cylinder application. MANY times not even that thick... Maybe
> 0.0007 to 0.001"*
> *2 - BONDING of the Nickel to the steel barrel is a MAJOR concern - Read
> that as a PROBLEM. Nickel does NOT bond well to hardened base materials.
> ACIDS should be used to help the bonding BUT - Acids cause
> Hydrogen Embrittlement.*
> *I'm not going into that - you can look it up.*
> *3 - To harden nickel you heat it at 500 to 700 F preferably in a
> electric oven. <-- CO$Tly... Do you think many companies will do that?
> What do you think REHEATING (under operation) it will do at say 1500 F?
> Do you think it will last long?*
> *4 - WARE - Now you are going to take a hardened steel, the Rings
> (Rockwell 70 to 90 Rc) and rub them against Nickel... Do you really think
> the nickel will last long?*
> *5 - The sales point of nickel is corrosion** protection. Sure! Buy the
> engine, never run the engine and the barrels will last long... All the
> other ferrous parts will rust through. *
> *6 - CHROME - You did not mention it, but I will: Very difficult to get
> a uniform coating because it is; or should be, a **trivalent
> Electroplating process. VERY HARD - Very Difficult to get the rings to
> seat. Usually results in high oil consumption. Because of these issues,
> that is why the advertising department - NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE ENGINEERS have
> switched to nickel. Still a poor choice.*
> *
> *
> *BOTTOM LINE on Steel Vs Nickel/Chrome... GO WITH STEEL.*
> *
> *
> *NOW, just to muddy the waters (confuse things) just a little more:
> There are two different ways of achieving hardness in steel barrels:*
> *a> Flame Hardening a.k.a. Heat Treating and *
> *b> Nitriding - Chemically hardening. *
> *
> *
> *Both are GOOD - The difference is CO$T. Flame hardening is the more
> expensive. The next question you should be thinking about is: How deep is
> the barrel treated? In both methods it is about 0.040" Deep. That means
> IF you keep your cylinders for three overhauls you will still have enough
> material to work with. An overhaul increases the size of the cylinder by
> 0.010" EACH TIME. That means a 0.005" cut each time plus the ware of say
> 0.005". More than enough hardened thickness.*
> *
> *
> *Millennium Cylinders - All the same above applies. They also had their
> share of AD's. There was one on the pistons for porosity, I believe that
> affected all manufactures since they were all buying from
> the Brazilian manufacturer. *
> *My Lycoming O-320 had Millennium Superior Cylinders - One thing I really
> liked about them was the fins were NOT painted - They were Hard
> Coat Anodized. This helped tremendously in keeping the engine cool, a much
> better heat transfer. Paint acts like a blanket, the anodizing offered a
> bare and textured surface to the flow of air.*
> *
> *
> *Last point: On COOLING - Lycoming HAS very POOR castings with lots of
> flashing in and around the fins, especially around the spark plug. Before
> you install the cylinders check the flashing in those areas. You will have
> a hard time believing this but: I cleaned up the flashing on an O-360 and
> the CHT's dropped 40 F... YES, No lie, a drop of 40 Degrees F. Clean up
> was done with a few 1/8" round files.*
> *
> *
> *Hope all this info helps.*
> *
> *
> *Barry*
> *
> *
> *
> *
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:52 PM, mds4878 wrote:
>
>> mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> I have a IO-540-C4B5 and I'm getting ready to buy new cylinders.
>> What is the best cylinder to buy.
>> Lycoming. 05K21102
>> ECI Nickel TISN10.1CA
>> ECI Steel TIST10.1CA
>> Millennium SL36006N-A20P
>> I think all of these are correct but what does everyone think is the best
>> ones to buy? Please give your opinion.
>> [Question] [Question]
>>
>> --------
>> RV-10 #40447
>> Fuselage almost done.
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IO 540 PUSH RODS |
| From: | "mds4878" <mike.nova1973(at)gmail.com> |
I'm looking for push rods for my engine, used if possible.
4 - 73435 push rods
5 - 73436 push rods
2 - 73437 push rods
I have 11 73434 push rods I don't need for trade or sale or ???
PM me or call Mike 612-590-8604.
I would also like any opinions on where to have my Bendix mags overhauled and fuel
servo, injectors and fuel divider overhauled.
--------
RV-10 #40447
Fuselage almost done.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410946#410946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Replacement bolts for lifting rings |
Does anyone have the correct designation number for the through bolts for the lifting
rings?
I would like to remove the lifting rings and replace with the next size shorter
bolts and nuts.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)agelesswings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacement bolts for lifting rings |
Morning, Ralph...
Not sure which engine you have, as you used the plural of
ring...I only have one ring on my O-235 (HAD one ring). It was
mounted with one of the case half bolts, so when I removed it, I
just measured the existing case half bolt in the next hole over
and used that size AN bolt/nut to replace the longer one that
held the ring in place.
Larger engines may have a different attach method, however, so
this may not apply in those cases.
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 10/21/2013 7:55 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Does anyone have the correct designation number for the through bolts for the
lifting rings?
>
> I would like to remove the lifting rings and replace with the next size shorter
bolts and nuts.
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacement bolts for lifting rings |
IO360B1F6...two rings. One forward and one aft - on case half bolts like your
single.
I would like to replace it with similar (coarse thread) about three sizes shorter.
Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Harley
Sent: Oct 21, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: LycomingEngines-List: Replacement bolts for lifting rings
Morning, Ralph...
Not sure which engine you have, as you used the plural of ring...I
only have one ring on my O-235 (HAD one ring). It was mounted with
one of the case half bolts, so when I removed it, I just measured
the existing case half bolt in the next hole over and used that size
AN bolt/nut to replace the longer one that held the ring in place.
Larger engines may have a different attach method, however, so this
may not apply in those cases.
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
On 10/21/2013 7:55 AM, Ralph E. Capen
wrote:
Does anyone have the correct designation number for the through bolts for the lifting
rings?
I would like to remove the lifting rings and replace with the next size shorter
bolts and nuts.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
November 07, 2011 - October 21, 2013
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