Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ba
August 02, 1999 - August 13, 1999
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
Mike, you could not have said it any better. The time I had at Brodhead
was wonderful and educational. I will be there next year.
Craig Hanson from North Dakota
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 12:20 PM
| Subject: | Brodhead Memories |
> All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
>
> When I got to Oshkosh Friday morning via Southwest and Avis, there were
> still three Piet's out on the flightline, including Mike Cuy and his
> favorite assistant, Karen. What a pretty plane! Karen is a good one to
> ask for the REAL story of building that plane (sorry, Mike)! All that
> sweating may cause Mike to move his wing forward again! Ted Brosseau
> was also there, having flown up from Florida in his Piet. Said it took
> about 23 hours for that little cross country. Heard it was more the
> wake and vortices from a DC-3 landing on a parallel runway rather than
> crosswind that caused the grief to a Piet flying in to Oshkosh, this
> from a pilot that landed just ahead of the unfortunate Air Camper and
> also encountered the unexpectedly rough conditions. Marv Hoppenworth of
> pedal plane fame unveiled a new model this year, a Pedal Piet that is as
> cute as can be! The plans aren't finished yet, should be out this fall
> so keep your eyes on the ads in Sport Aviation.
>
> After spending about five hours at Oshkosh on Friday in the sweltering
> heat and crowds, I packed up and headed south to Brodhead. Still hot
> and sticky, but at least there were 13 Air Camper's nestled in amongst
> the trees surrounding a wonderful, green, quiet flying pasture. I mean
> a pasture, too, as it is too big to call it a grass strip. There were 3
> Model A powered Air Campers, 2 Corvair versions, Duane Woolsey (sp?) and
> his Subaru powered ship (now sold to a new owner) and the rest filled
> out with the Continental crowd. Not to mention some really classy birds
> that flew in for the fun of it, like a Stinson 10A, a Stinson Detroiter
> (I believe), Ercoupe, Lake Amphibian, Waco biplane, Stearman, Kitfox,
> Sonerai, and an ultralight Piet wanna-be (not an Ultra Piet). I won't
> even go into the amazing planes that are based at Brodhead, but it is
> quite the airport for those in love with the smell of warm oil, doped
> fabric and old engines that seem to have more displacement in one
> cylinder than an entire Corvair engine. Words will never fully describe
> the atmosphere of Brodhead.
>
> The brats on Friday and pork chops on Saturday, plus pancakes Saturday
> morning, with more fresh corn on the cob than could be eaten, made sure
> the pilots had enough energy for all the flying that takes place in the
> evening and morning hours. They must have flown well over 100
> passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
> the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
> up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
> wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
> candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
> have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
> you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
> are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
> the other.
>
> But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
> engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
> undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
> characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
> winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
> And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
> for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
> watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
> for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
> neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
>
> Friday night/Saturday morning saw the passage of a cold front that
> revealed many weaknesses in the waterproofing of the assembled tents,
> along with a little lightning and wind. Another benefit to our high
> wing Piet's, you can hang more out to dry on those struts! We didn't
> mind as it brought with it welcome cool weather and nice flying
> conditions, especially by Saturday evening. Some names we are all
> familiar with on the chat group showed their faces at Brodhead. Steve
> E, Grant, Dominic, Ted and others. Orrin Hoopman and his large family
> were well represented, as well as Vi Kapler. Saved myself some time and
> bought Vi's aluminum tail hinge package, tested to over 500 lbs before
> failure, some nice looking units that will need just a bit of
> finishing. Even the missing William Wynne stopped by for a few hours to
> say, yes, he is back from South America, doing well and has updates for
> his Corvair package. Phone #'s he gave out are (500) 677-3794 and (904)
> 451-3676.
>
> Well, that's enough description from this tired traveler. Air
> conditioning at 36,000 is tough! Almost like those dedicated members of
> the group that slugged their way to Brodhead and home again, crossing
> thousands of miles one at a time from an altitude where each one of them
> can be counted and felt in the posterior. From those of us that were
> fortunate enough to be at Brodhead '99, a sincere "Thank-you" for
> sharing your treasures with us. And for those who couldn't make it, the
> tantalizing whisper of "Next year"!
>
> Mike List
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slick 4200/ 6200 series overhaul manual |
I too would appreciate the Slick conversion manuel, and will gladly reimburse
Henry Williams
59 Crescent Dr
Huntington NY, 11743
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slick 4200/ 6200 series overhaul manual |
Same here.
Steve Williams
114 Pleasant st
Brandon, Ms 39042
>I too would appreciate the Slick conversion manuel, and will gladly
>reimburse
>
>Henry Williams
>59 Crescent Dr
>Huntington NY, 11743
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
I was at brodhead on sat and was one of the lucky ones to get their first
ride in their favorite plane..a big thanks to Ted Brosseau for his
generousity (and help) getting my 220# into the front pit though once in had
as much room as one side of a C150.
all the fellows giving rides sure kept that flame alive for those of us
still building.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
ps--anyone know who was the owner of that really sharp Piet flown by "Stark
Nekkid"??? the graphics were outstanding!!
michael list wrote:
> All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
>
> They must have flown well over 100
> passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
> the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
> up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
> wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
> candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
> have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
> you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
> are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
> the other.
>
> But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
> engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
> undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
> characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
> winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
> And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
> for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
> watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
> for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
> neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 12:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Memories
The Girls, the Girls, someone please tell me if the girl pilots were back,
and are they married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I love getting the reports
of the flyin from you guys that were able to go, lucky things!
Robert (But what about the girl pilots) Hensarling
>I was at brodhead on sat and was one of the lucky ones to get their first
>ride in their favorite plane..a big thanks to Ted Brosseau for his
>generousity (and help) getting my 220# into the front pit though once in
had
>as much room as one side of a C150.
>all the fellows giving rides sure kept that flame alive for those of us
>still building.
>regards
>JoeC
>Zion, Illinois
>ps--anyone know who was the owner of that really sharp Piet flown by "Stark
>Nekkid"??? the graphics were outstanding!!
>
>michael list wrote:
>
>> All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
>>
>> They must have flown well over 100
>> passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
>> the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
>> up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
>> wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
>> candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
>> have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
>> you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
>> are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
>> the other.
>>
>> But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
>> engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
>> undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
>> characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
>> winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
>> And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
>> for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
>> watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
>> for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
>> neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane details |
The originals did not use the tube braces,but relied on an "X" cable
bracing on one side between the cabane uprights.
> From: Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: cabane details
> Date: Sunday, August 01, 1999 8:37 AM
>
> Hi group:
> Are the bracing tubes that angle down and forward from the front cabanes
> required? Doug Bryant, our local Piet guru, says no. Fact or heresy?
>
> Thanks.
> CJ Beck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
Thanks for the account of Broadhead,sounds great.
Doug
> From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Brodhead Memories
> Date: Sunday, August 01, 1999 11:20 AM
>
> All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
>
> When I got to Oshkosh Friday morning via Southwest and Avis, there were
> still three Piet's out on the flightline, including Mike Cuy and his
> favorite assistant, Karen. What a pretty plane! Karen is a good one to
> ask for the REAL story of building that plane (sorry, Mike)! All that
> sweating may cause Mike to move his wing forward again! Ted Brosseau
> was also there, having flown up from Florida in his Piet. Said it took
> about 23 hours for that little cross country. Heard it was more the
> wake and vortices from a DC-3 landing on a parallel runway rather than
> crosswind that caused the grief to a Piet flying in to Oshkosh, this
> from a pilot that landed just ahead of the unfortunate Air Camper and
> also encountered the unexpectedly rough conditions. Marv Hoppenworth of
> pedal plane fame unveiled a new model this year, a Pedal Piet that is as
> cute as can be! The plans aren't finished yet, should be out this fall
> so keep your eyes on the ads in Sport Aviation.
>
> After spending about five hours at Oshkosh on Friday in the sweltering
> heat and crowds, I packed up and headed south to Brodhead. Still hot
> and sticky, but at least there were 13 Air Camper's nestled in amongst
> the trees surrounding a wonderful, green, quiet flying pasture. I mean
> a pasture, too, as it is too big to call it a grass strip. There were 3
> Model A powered Air Campers, 2 Corvair versions, Duane Woolsey (sp?) and
> his Subaru powered ship (now sold to a new owner) and the rest filled
> out with the Continental crowd. Not to mention some really classy birds
> that flew in for the fun of it, like a Stinson 10A, a Stinson Detroiter
> (I believe), Ercoupe, Lake Amphibian, Waco biplane, Stearman, Kitfox,
> Sonerai, and an ultralight Piet wanna-be (not an Ultra Piet). I won't
> even go into the amazing planes that are based at Brodhead, but it is
> quite the airport for those in love with the smell of warm oil, doped
> fabric and old engines that seem to have more displacement in one
> cylinder than an entire Corvair engine. Words will never fully describe
> the atmosphere of Brodhead.
>
> The brats on Friday and pork chops on Saturday, plus pancakes Saturday
> morning, with more fresh corn on the cob than could be eaten, made sure
> the pilots had enough energy for all the flying that takes place in the
> evening and morning hours. They must have flown well over 100
> passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
> the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
> up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
> wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
> candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
> have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
> you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
> are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
> the other.
>
> But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
> engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
> undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
> characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
> winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
> And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
> for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
> watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
> for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
> neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
>
> Friday night/Saturday morning saw the passage of a cold front that
> revealed many weaknesses in the waterproofing of the assembled tents,
> along with a little lightning and wind. Another benefit to our high
> wing Piet's, you can hang more out to dry on those struts! We didn't
> mind as it brought with it welcome cool weather and nice flying
> conditions, especially by Saturday evening. Some names we are all
> familiar with on the chat group showed their faces at Brodhead. Steve
> E, Grant, Dominic, Ted and others. Orrin Hoopman and his large family
> were well represented, as well as Vi Kapler. Saved myself some time and
> bought Vi's aluminum tail hinge package, tested to over 500 lbs before
> failure, some nice looking units that will need just a bit of
> finishing. Even the missing William Wynne stopped by for a few hours to
> say, yes, he is back from South America, doing well and has updates for
> his Corvair package. Phone #'s he gave out are (500) 677-3794 and (904)
> 451-3676.
>
> Well, that's enough description from this tired traveler. Air
> conditioning at 36,000 is tough! Almost like those dedicated members of
> the group that slugged their way to Brodhead and home again, crossing
> thousands of miles one at a time from an altitude where each one of them
> can be counted and felt in the posterior. From those of us that were
> fortunate enough to be at Brodhead '99, a sincere "Thank-you" for
> sharing your treasures with us. And for those who couldn't make it, the
> tantalizing whisper of "Next year"!
>
> Mike List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
| Subject: | Re: cabane details |
If you have ever flown in the front seat of a Piet with crossed cable
braces . you will use strut braces instead. The cables make entry and
exit
tough on small people, impossible for large or older less agile folk.
besides Bernie used them.
If you want to stay fathfull to the original plan like Howard Henderson
did. Then go with the cables. But If you want your wife and friends to
enjoy the experence, use the braces. Also in the unlikly event of an
accident. The cables restrict the passengers exit options to the left
side of the aircraft. I guess thats about two cents worth.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
correction please---I said "stark nekkid",,meant to say "Buck Nekkid"....got my
tongue caught in my eye teeth and could'nt see what I was saying
JoeC
fishin wrote:
> I was at brodhead on sat and was one of the lucky ones to get their first
> ride in their favorite plane..a big thanks to Ted Brosseau for his
> generousity (and help) getting my 220# into the front pit though once in had
> as much room as one side of a C150.
> all the fellows giving rides sure kept that flame alive for those of us
> still building.
> regards
> JoeC
> Zion, Illinois
> ps--anyone know who was the owner of that really sharp Piet flown by "Stark
> Nekkid"??? the graphics were outstanding!!
>
> michael list wrote:
>
> > All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
> >
> > They must have flown well over 100
> > passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
> > the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
> > up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
> > wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
> > candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
> > have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
> > you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
> > are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
> > the other.
> >
> > But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
> > engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
> > undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
> > characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
> > winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
> > And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
> > for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
> > watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
> > for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
> > neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
Oh, so you are THAT Robert! I would like to report that the girls were
back in their skimpiest flying attire (the heat and all, you know) and
every time they hand-propped the plane a crowd gathered. It was
dangerous having that much distraction with all those spinning
propellers! Even had to grab a few starry-eyed pilots to keep them from
walking into and ruining perfectly good wood propellers. I even heard
one of the girls, the shorter, more slender of the two, ask someone
where Robert was this year. She seemed disappointed, mumbling something
about having to go ahead and marry that rich Waco Taperwing pilot if
Robert wasn't coming back.
Sort of reads like a male pilots Harlequin romance novel, don't it? (No
offense, ladies) Now, if that doesn't get you to Brodhead next year,
nothing will! And just in case this turns out to be a true story, you
better bring a box of chocolates on ice!
robert hensarling wrote:
>
>
> Subject: Re: Brodhead Memories
>
> The Girls, the Girls, someone please tell me if the girl pilots were back,
> and are they married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I love getting the reports
> of the flyin from you guys that were able to go, lucky things!
>
> Robert (But what about the girl pilots) Hensarling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
-----Original Message-----
From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 9:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Memories
Brodhead next year??? Heck, I'm packing up right now and heading that way
within the hour!
:o)
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Oh, so you are THAT Robert! I would like to report that the girls were
>back in their skimpiest flying attire (the heat and all, you know) and
>every time they hand-propped the plane a crowd gathered. It was
>dangerous having that much distraction with all those spinning
>propellers! Even had to grab a few starry-eyed pilots to keep them from
>walking into and ruining perfectly good wood propellers. I even heard
>one of the girls, the shorter, more slender of the two, ask someone
>where Robert was this year. She seemed disappointed, mumbling something
>about having to go ahead and marry that rich Waco Taperwing pilot if
>Robert wasn't coming back.
>
>Sort of reads like a male pilots Harlequin romance novel, don't it? (No
>offense, ladies) Now, if that doesn't get you to Brodhead next year,
>nothing will! And just in case this turns out to be a true story, you
>better bring a box of chocolates on ice!
>
>
>robert hensarling wrote:
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Brodhead Memories
>>
>> The Girls, the Girls, someone please tell me if the girl pilots were
back,
>> and are they married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, I love getting the
reports
>> of the flyin from you guys that were able to go, lucky things!
>>
>> Robert (But what about the girl pilots) Hensarling
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Phil!
Some how I missed ya at Brodhead -- saw just about everything else there
(even Steve
E's fashion statement! ;-)
What will the copying cost be & where should we send it?
Thanks
MIke Conkling
21806 S. Broadacres
Pretty Prairie, KS 67570
> From: User554784(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: 4200 Manual
> Date: Saturday, July 24, 1999 1:50 PM
>
> To Randall and everyone that has asked for the magneto manual:
>
> I will make up a bunch of copies for those who will be attending the
> conventions first. Afterward I will ship copies to all other requestors.
> I've been away for the past two weeks so I better get my tailwheel to
Kinko's
> today! I'll let everyone know the cost soon.
>
> Phil C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com> |
I missed you too. I still would like a manual.
Craig L. Hanson
2375 5th Ave. NE
Northwood, ND 58267
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 9:10 PM
> Phil!
>
> Some how I missed ya at Brodhead -- saw just about everything else there
> (even Steve
> E's fashion statement! ;-)
>
> What will the copying cost be & where should we send it?
>
> Thanks
>
> MIke Conkling
> 21806 S. Broadacres
> Pretty Prairie, KS 67570
>
> ----------
> > From: User554784(at)aol.com
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: 4200 Manual
> > Date: Saturday, July 24, 1999 1:50 PM
> >
> > To Randall and everyone that has asked for the magneto manual:
> >
> > I will make up a bunch of copies for those who will be attending the
> > conventions first. Afterward I will ship copies to all other requestors.
>
> > I've been away for the past two weeks so I better get my tailwheel to
> Kinko's
> > today! I'll let everyone know the cost soon.
> >
> > Phil C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com> |
I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in
the ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of
staples. I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was
varnished. When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in
the answer was that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is
there any comments on this?
Craig Hanson
I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular
material
left in the ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the
same kind
of staples. I was told that these had to be taken out before the
wood was
varnished. When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left
in the
answer was that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is
there
any comments on this?
Craig Hanson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
I'm sorry I should have introduced myself before inflicting my
opinion/comments on the group. my name as you can see is Ted. Heres the
best part, I live 38 air miles northeast of Brodhead. I'm lucky enough
to fly off the same 2400 foot turf strip that Lowell Frank calls home.
My Piet is still just odd parts scattered on my bench. I've had the
privilege of riding in a lot of Piets and GN-1's even a little front
seat stick
in Howard Henderson's 444. But alas for now at least I'm forced to fly
one of those beer cans with a nose wheel. My wife likes to just get in
and close the door like a car. She just doesn't understand. Brodhead was
great this year. A lot of fresh new faces. The folks that run it really
bend over backwards to do a good job. Since I'm so close I need to get
involved in the process. I don't want it to dwindle away as it seems the
news letter is doing. The Pietenpol family came out in force which is
great to see .
B.H.P. would be proud to see his family and his planes on the same
field. Time to stop talking and start listening.
Ted. T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Staples in ribs |
I've heard it both ways. I used staples for light clamping pressure with
t-88, then pulled the staples and pilot drilled w/#65 drill bit, then used
nails.
Lastly, if you staple, a good way is to put a narrow 050, or 035 shim under
the stapler, then staple. That way the staple doesn't go all the way in and
it's easier to pull out after the gussets set up.
>From: "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Staples in ribs
>Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0500
>
>I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in the
>ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of staples.
>I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was varnished.
>When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in the answer was
>that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is there any comments
>on this?
>Craig Hanson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
Theodore Trevorrow wrote:
>
> The folks that run it really
> bend over backwards to do a good job.
Amen to that, Ted. A great job, in fact. I forgot to mention in my
brief account that all the fun, enjoyment, education and relaxation that
is present at Brodhead is due to some really fine folks volunteering
their time and effort. When you can stroll into the dining hangar and
see a smiling, fresh faced crew setting up for breakfast at 5:00 am, you
know you are being pampered and well taken care of. I may not know
their names or faces, but I would never call them strangers.
I don't want it to dwindle away as it seems the
> news letter is doing.
I wouldn't give up on the future of the newsletter just yet. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
Unsubscribe please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Hinchman <mikehi(at)molalla.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Sorry////// NEWS FLASH |
Real quick Ted, would you tell where Brodhead is and what is it? My dad,
subscriber to the list, probably knows but I'd like to hear it "from the
horse's mouth" so to speak. So if you wouldn't mind and it's no trouble,
please describe for me the geographic location of the turf strip you
mentioned and what goes on there that is significant to the world of private
and sport aviation enthusiasts??
Joel
-----Original Message-----
Theodore Trevorrow
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 8:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sorry.
I'm sorry I should have introduced myself before inflicting my
opinion/comments on the group. my name as you can see is Ted. Heres the
best part, I live 38 air miles northeast of Brodhead. I'm lucky enough
to fly off the same 2400 foot turf strip that Lowell Frank calls home.
My Piet is still just odd parts scattered on my bench. I've had the
privilege of riding in a lot of Piets and GN-1's even a little front
seat stick
in Howard Henderson's 444. But alas for now at least I'm forced to fly
one of those beer cans with a nose wheel. My wife likes to just get in
and close the door like a car. She just doesn't understand. Brodhead was
great this year. A lot of fresh new faces. The folks that run it really
bend over backwards to do a good job. Since I'm so close I need to get
involved in the process. I don't want it to dwindle away as it seems the
news letter is doing. The Pietenpol family came out in force which is
great to see .
B.H.P. would be proud to see his family and his planes on the same
field. Time to stop talking and start listening.
Ted. T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FITTING GAUGE THICKNESS |
I am at the point of installing the L-shaped fitting that goes on top of the aft
ash piece on the floor. It ties into the strut fittings. The drawing says
to use 20 gauge steel (or approx .032 inch thick). 20 gauge seems awfully thin
for that application. It would not seem to be providing any strength. Does
anyone have any comments? Should I use a thicker gauge such as .063 inch thick?
Thanks, Bart
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Dery <dickdery(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Staples in ribs |
>I've heard it both ways. I used staples for light clamping pressure with
>t-88, then pulled the staples and pilot drilled w/#65 drill bit, then used
>nails.
>
>Lastly, if you staple, a good way is to put a narrow 050, or 035 shim under
>the stapler, then staple. That way the staple doesn't go all the way in and
>it's easier to pull out after the gussets set up.
>
>
>>From: "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com>
>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Subject: Staples in ribs
>>Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0500
>>
>>I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in the
>>ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of staples.
>>I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was varnished.
>>When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in the answer was
>>that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is there any comments
>>on this?
>>Craig Hanson
> An aircraft mechanic told me once that you should staple through a piece
of cardboard. When you remove the staple, you wind up gouging the cardboard,
not the piece of wood you're glueing to. the cardboard can then be
peeledaway, and if any gets left behind, it can be sanded down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hodge <KHodge(at)cwcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
.
Oh that I could have been there to enjoy the sight of Pietenpols at play!
Still, mine is just having the wings covered now and if I manage to fly next
year I hope to attend Boadhead in 2001
I have attached a picture from three months ago showing the last trial
assembly, using at that time, wooden lift struts as the real ones were still
being made.
Keith Hodge
G-GYKG
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brodhead pics/videos? |
May be a little early yet, but does anyone have any pictures/videos
from Brodhead '99? I've got over 3 Gig to fill, and an eager audience!
Richard
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FITTING GAUGE THICKNESS |
Bart
I wouldn't use anything thinner than .065" 4130, probably .090" 4130 if the
bend allowance (.1875": min.) would allow it....
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
mini-lookalike?
I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
had posted next to the
plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
testing on a rib
built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
on rib testing,
can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
Madison, Wi. to
establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
Red Cedar.
A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all spar
pre-requisites runs
$20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough for
me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
The guys name is Roger Mann, His company is RagWing Aviation, and the plane
is an UltraPiet.
There is also a ragwing buiders list
Don't have the link on this machine, but it should be fairly easy to find.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Closer Look
>Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
>mini-lookalike?
>I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
>had posted next to the
>plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
>testing on a rib
>built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
>on rib testing,
>can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
>Madison, Wi. to
>establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
>Red Cedar.
>A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all spar
>pre-requisites runs
>$20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough for
>me!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
What engine are you using?
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hodge <KHodge(at)cwcom.net> |
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 12:46 PM
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
> From this side of the pond, a cry of joy at the reporting of Brodhead 99
> .
> Oh that I could have been there to enjoy the sight of Pietenpols at play!
>
> Still, mine is just having the wings covered now and if I manage to fly
next
> year I hope to attend Boadhead in 2001
>
> I have attached a picture from three months ago showing the last trial
> assembly, using at that time, wooden lift struts as the real ones were
still
> being made.
>
> Keith Hodge
>
> G-GYKG
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: 01 August 1999 18:20
> Subject: Brodhead Memories
>
>
> > All I can say is that Brodhead is beautiful!
> >
> > When I got to Oshkosh Friday morning via Southwest and Avis, there were
> > still three Piet's out on the flightline, including Mike Cuy and his
> > favorite assistant, Karen. What a pretty plane! Karen is a good one to
> > ask for the REAL story of building that plane (sorry, Mike)! All that
> > sweating may cause Mike to move his wing forward again! Ted Brosseau
> > was also there, having flown up from Florida in his Piet. Said it took
> > about 23 hours for that little cross country. Heard it was more the
> > wake and vortices from a DC-3 landing on a parallel runway rather than
> > crosswind that caused the grief to a Piet flying in to Oshkosh, this
> > from a pilot that landed just ahead of the unfortunate Air Camper and
> > also encountered the unexpectedly rough conditions. Marv Hoppenworth of
> > pedal plane fame unveiled a new model this year, a Pedal Piet that is as
> > cute as can be! The plans aren't finished yet, should be out this fall
> > so keep your eyes on the ads in Sport Aviation.
> >
> > After spending about five hours at Oshkosh on Friday in the sweltering
> > heat and crowds, I packed up and headed south to Brodhead. Still hot
> > and sticky, but at least there were 13 Air Camper's nestled in amongst
> > the trees surrounding a wonderful, green, quiet flying pasture. I mean
> > a pasture, too, as it is too big to call it a grass strip. There were 3
> > Model A powered Air Campers, 2 Corvair versions, Duane Woolsey (sp?) and
> > his Subaru powered ship (now sold to a new owner) and the rest filled
> > out with the Continental crowd. Not to mention some really classy birds
> > that flew in for the fun of it, like a Stinson 10A, a Stinson Detroiter
> > (I believe), Ercoupe, Lake Amphibian, Waco biplane, Stearman, Kitfox,
> > Sonerai, and an ultralight Piet wanna-be (not an Ultra Piet). I won't
> > even go into the amazing planes that are based at Brodhead, but it is
> > quite the airport for those in love with the smell of warm oil, doped
> > fabric and old engines that seem to have more displacement in one
> > cylinder than an entire Corvair engine. Words will never fully describe
> > the atmosphere of Brodhead.
> >
> > The brats on Friday and pork chops on Saturday, plus pancakes Saturday
> > morning, with more fresh corn on the cob than could be eaten, made sure
> > the pilots had enough energy for all the flying that takes place in the
> > evening and morning hours. They must have flown well over 100
> > passengers this weekend, all without incident. Piet's are everywhere in
> > the air, touring the surrounding hills and fields, stacking themselves
> > up for landings, load up the next passenger and head out again. From
> > wee folks barely able to see over the side of the cockpit to NBA
> > candidates, they all wanted to fly in our favorite time machine. If you
> > have never seen a 6'5" frame fold itself into the front cockpit, well,
> > you are in for a treat! During the transition those tall, lanky frames
> > are as much hanging out between the struts and cabanes on one side as
> > the other.
> >
> > But they all fit. And it made for a good comparison between the various
> > engines used. They all managed to lift themselves out of that grassy,
> > undulating pasture time and again. The Continental's have their
> > characteristic bark, the Model A's a soft, muted baritone at idle that
> > winds up to sound like a real airplane engine with a little throttle.
> > And the Corvairs, one with short stacks, the other with three into one
> > for each bank of cylinders, both sounding snarlingly impressive. After
> > watching all the flying over the weekend, I think proper exhaust systems
> > for any engine make it more pleasant for pilots, passengers and the
> > neighbors all around. Fit a muffler and really knock their socks off!
> >
> > Friday night/Saturday morning saw the passage of a cold front that
> > revealed many weaknesses in the waterproofing of the assembled tents,
> > along with a little lightning and wind. Another benefit to our high
> > wing Piet's, you can hang more out to dry on those struts! We didn't
> > mind as it brought with it welcome cool weather and nice flying
> > conditions, especially by Saturday evening. Some names we are all
> > familiar with on the chat group showed their faces at Brodhead. Steve
> > E, Grant, Dominic, Ted and others. Orrin Hoopman and his large family
> > were well represented, as well as Vi Kapler. Saved myself some time and
> > bought Vi's aluminum tail hinge package, tested to over 500 lbs before
> > failure, some nice looking units that will need just a bit of
> > finishing. Even the missing William Wynne stopped by for a few hours to
> > say, yes, he is back from South America, doing well and has updates for
> > his Corvair package. Phone #'s he gave out are (500) 677-3794 and (904)
> > 451-3676.
> >
> > Well, that's enough description from this tired traveler. Air
> > conditioning at 36,000 is tough! Almost like those dedicated members of
> > the group that slugged their way to Brodhead and home again, crossing
> > thousands of miles one at a time from an altitude where each one of them
> > can be counted and felt in the posterior. From those of us that were
> > fortunate enough to be at Brodhead '99, a sincere "Thank-you" for
> > sharing your treasures with us. And for those who couldn't make it, the
> > tantalizing whisper of "Next year"!
> >
> > Mike List
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Re: the discussion of the fore &aft cross cables & the fwd braces from
the center section to the motor mount.
I have both & the following is why:
I started with the fwd angled braces. The plane flew OK, but on pre
flight when I rocked the wing back & forth at the wing tip, there seemed
to be some slop in the wing. Not much but some.
Ed Snyder & I talked it over, & I decided to install the cross cables.
That did it, solid as a rock. Why I don't know. It may have somethig to
do with connecting to aft cabane to the fwd cabane.( Ed did the same
thing on the second Piet he is now building ).
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
PS If someone wants a ride bad enough, they'll get in OK.
Re: the discussion of the fore aft cross
cables
the fwd braces from the center section to the motor
mount.
I have both the following is
why:
I started with the fwd angled braces. The plane flew OK, but on pre
flight
when I rocked the wing back forth at the wing tip, there seemed to
be some
slop in the wing. Not much but some.
Ed Snyder I talked it over, I decided to install the
cross
cables. That did it, solid as a rock. Why I don't know. It may have
somethig to
do with connecting to aft cabane to the fwd cabane.( Ed did the same
thing on
the second Piet he is now building ).
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
PS If someone wants a ride bad enough, they'll get in OK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
Mike,
Are you referring to the gentleman at Brodhead with the ultralight Piet
wanna-be and rib test? If so, I didn't catch his name, but I'm pretty
sure it wasn't Roger Mann unless he has put on a bit of weight. And his
plane was not one of Roger Mann's Ultra Piet's unless it had been very
much modified. His test jig basically mounted a rib upside down from
some stub front and rear spars, then hung weights fairly evenly spaced
along the rib to simulate a distributed air load. I think Wayne Ison
(Mini Max designer) did something very similar. You could do the same
thing, build identical ribs out of spruce and cedar and load them to
failure using the same amount of weight and distribution on each rib.
At least that would give you a direct comparison between the two
different woods for this application. Maybe one of the group has some
more info on his test jig.
Does Western Red Cedar have any natural oils present that would inhibit
good glue joints?
Mike List
mike cushway wrote:
>
> Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
> mini-lookalike?
> I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
> had posted next to the
> plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
> testing on a rib
> built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
> on rib testing,
> can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
> Madison, Wi. to
> establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
> Red Cedar.
> A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all spar
> pre-requisites runs
> $20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough for
> me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Staples in ribs |
You all may know this, but I found that they make a stapler like the one used
for ceiling tile, only this one is about 1/2 the size. I found it at a local
True Value Hardware. It works great. i did not pull my staples from the wood
because i thought like you . The varnish will seal the wood and staples...
oil can wrote:
> I've heard it both ways. I used staples for light clamping pressure with
> t-88, then pulled the staples and pilot drilled w/#65 drill bit, then used
> nails.
>
> Lastly, if you staple, a good way is to put a narrow 050, or 035 shim under
> the stapler, then staple. That way the staple doesn't go all the way in and
> it's easier to pull out after the gussets set up.
>
> >From: "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Staples in ribs
> >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0500
> >
> >I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in the
> >ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of staples.
> >I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was varnished.
> >When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in the answer was
> >that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is there any comments
> >on this?
> >Craig Hanson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
| Subject: | RE: Sorry////// NEWS FLASH |
Joel; You must be a school teacher. I havent had an assignment like
this in thirty years.LOL
Here it is off the top of my head. Brodhead is 6.5 miles north of the
wisconsin-Illinois border.
I grabbed the wisconsin airport directory and found that it's at
42-35-30 N 89-22-30.5 W That should get you in the neighbor hood.
There are three runways on an L shaped field that must run in the 80 to
100 acre range"guess". I'll try to include a picture at the end of this.
Its located in flat open farmland. I have no idea of Brodheads
population "smallville" But its a typical midwestern farming town.
Green and fresh and clean. Where nice people with field grown suntans
smile and say good morning on the street. Around here its best known for
its covered bridges. Next week is the covered bridge festival. Maybe
I'll drive my old pickup down and take some pictures. Ya think??? The
flying field is just like the town , Green and shaded and friendly. On
the east side of the intersection of 03 & 33 is a U shaped area where
you can park about ten or so Piet's with their props to the field. Its
shaded by mature maples with a fire pit surronded by benches with lots
of room for lawn chairs.
Friday and Saturday are the busy days with sat. afternoon being the
peak. Piet action is almost constent with Piets taking off and landing
almost nonstop. Its an interesting process the participate in since few
of these planes have radios. Someone should tell the FAA that see and
avoid actually works. Its fun to have the Model "A" bunch there. Their
getting used to the idea now . Last year I saw some just shake their
heads in amazment.
One of the model "A" group wanted his wife to get a Piet ride and
asked me what the cost would be he seemed suprised when I told him a
polite request would probably cover it. I know that Kim Stricker took
one young man up three or four times, and was jst as eager to do it on
sunday afternoon as he had been on Sat.
Until resently Brodhead wa just about the center of the Pietenpol
universe. Lately flyins and reunions have popped up all over the world.
Its amazing how this little airplane has brought people together. I'm
sure Bernie would be pleased.
By the way the reunion at Brodhead is run by (as I understand it )
members of the local EAA chapter. Please take every opportunity to
praise and thank them for the great job they do. It sure isnt Osh Kosh
and thats just the way we like it.
I'm sorry if I've run off at the mouth , you asked for it. Come to the
reunion next year and you'll understand. Great planes . Great field .
Great people.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Good a.m.,
I don't remember the old boy's name either. I do remember him explaining
the ship is his own design, not a Roger Mann ship.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Closer Look
>Mike,
>
>Are you referring to the gentleman at Brodhead with the ultralight Piet
>wanna-be and rib test? If so, I didn't catch his name, but I'm pretty
>sure it wasn't Roger Mann unless he has put on a bit of weight. And his
>plane was not one of Roger Mann's Ultra Piet's unless it had been very
>much modified. His test jig basically mounted a rib upside down from
>some stub front and rear spars, then hung weights fairly evenly spaced
>along the rib to simulate a distributed air load. I think Wayne Ison
>(Mini Max designer) did something very similar. You could do the same
>thing, build identical ribs out of spruce and cedar and load them to
>failure using the same amount of weight and distribution on each rib.
>At least that would give you a direct comparison between the two
>different woods for this application. Maybe one of the group has some
>more info on his test jig.
>
>Does Western Red Cedar have any natural oils present that would inhibit
>good glue joints?
>
>Mike List
>
>
>mike cushway wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
>> mini-lookalike?
>> I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
>> had posted next to the
>> plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
>> testing on a rib
>> built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
>> on rib testing,
>> can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
>> Madison, Wi. to
>> establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
>> Red Cedar.
>> A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all spar
>> pre-requisites runs
>> $20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough for
>> me!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
Just read my post, ugh! I know that spell checker is around here
somewhere.
T.T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
Ragwing is in rural South Carolina. They have a nice web site. I don't have
the URL on this PC, but you should be able to find them easily. RagWing is
one guy who seems to be prettty prolific with single place designs. He is
quite proud of the hands off stability of his Piet lookalike.
Mike Bell
Columba, SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/03/99 07:13:58 PM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Closer Look
The guys name is Roger Mann, His company is RagWing Aviation, and the plane
is an UltraPiet.
There is also a ragwing buiders list
Don't have the link on this machine, but it should be fairly easy to find.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Closer Look
>Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
>mini-lookalike?
>I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
>had posted next to the
>plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
>testing on a rib
>built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
>on rib testing,
>can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
>Madison, Wi. to
>establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
>Red Cedar.
>A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all spar
>pre-requisites runs
>$20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough for
>me!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Tim,
My Apologies about the key, The ground crew sheepishly presented me the key
at OSH. I about died they forgot to follow my instructions about where to
put it. I hope thay you have recieveed it back by now. I sent it home with
a fellow member of the flying club. how embarrassing. Your hospitality was
a great releif after two hard dsays of flying.
Both duane and I are home safe. I'll stilll be away for a few days as my
family and I are going to take a couple days vacation together. I will post
everything about the trip as soon as I can. It was nothing less than an
adventure of a life-time! BTW I beat duane home by 4 hours. He sold his
plane and drove home. I got stopped by weather in NE, but still made it
home in record time. Tailwinds both comming and going!
Back soon,
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Copinfo
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:33 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Steve E.
>
>
> If anyone sees Steve, tell him to give my key back. That was
> my only key to
> the club house here in Des Moines. Tell him I got my new
> mags today and
> will be flying Piet NX899TC this weekend. I'm making it to
> Broadhead this
> year if it kills me. Just not this month. The middle of
> next month I'm
> guessing. The BPA newsletter has my fuselage pictured witha
> caption "This
> one will be at Broadhead 99" and it will around the 15th of August.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mail.execpc.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:21 AM
> Subject: RE: Steve E.
>
>
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >I live 45 minutes from Oshkosh and was at EAA today when the
> Pietenpols
> >flight came in. It was great to see all of them in the
> pattern. Met Steve
> >E., Mike Cuy, Bill Rewey and others. I believe 16 planes
> flew in. There
> >was a strong crosswind from the West. They landed on 36-18
> and one plane
> >lost a wheel and ground looped. Don't think the pilot was
> hurt and don't
> >know how much damage was done to the plane. Didn't get the
> name of the
> >pilot.
> >
> >Bill Rewey's Pietenpol forum was well attended. Good info and many
> >questions.
> >
> >Arden Adamson
> >(I have the Pietenpol plans but haven't started building yet.)
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of
> >> John Duprey
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 8:50 PM
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Subject: Steve E.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey I guess Steve E. is having so much Fun he forgot to keep us
> >> updated. Oh well ... I know we will hear all about it
> when he returns &
> >> be jealous(sp?) as hell.
> >>
> >> John Duprey
> >>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
I have my key back. We loved having you here and I'll get you your own key
for when you come through again. I flew my Piet last night and now I have
to re-rig it. It sure fills good to have those new Slick Mags. That's
great that Duane sold his Piet. It sure is a beauty. How bad was the one
damaged that broke his wheel at Osh?
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Steve E.
>Tim,
>My Apologies about the key, The ground crew sheepishly presented me the
key
>at OSH. I about died they forgot to follow my instructions about where to
>put it. I hope thay you have recieveed it back by now. I sent it home
with
>a fellow member of the flying club. how embarrassing. Your hospitality
was
>a great releif after two hard dsays of flying.
>
>Both duane and I are home safe. I'll stilll be away for a few days as my
>family and I are going to take a couple days vacation together. I will
post
>everything about the trip as soon as I can. It was nothing less than an
>adventure of a life-time! BTW I beat duane home by 4 hours. He sold his
>plane and drove home. I got stopped by weather in NE, but still made it
>home in record time. Tailwinds both comming and going!
>
>Back soon,
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Copinfo
>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:33 AM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Steve E.
>>
>>
>> If anyone sees Steve, tell him to give my key back. That was
>> my only key to
>> the club house here in Des Moines. Tell him I got my new
>> mags today and
>> will be flying Piet NX899TC this weekend. I'm making it to
>> Broadhead this
>> year if it kills me. Just not this month. The middle of
>> next month I'm
>> guessing. The BPA newsletter has my fuselage pictured witha
>> caption "This
>> one will be at Broadhead 99" and it will around the 15th of August.
>> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>> Tim Cunningham
>> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mail.execpc.com
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:21 AM
>> Subject: RE: Steve E.
>>
>>
>> >Gentlemen,
>> >
>> >I live 45 minutes from Oshkosh and was at EAA today when the
>> Pietenpols
>> >flight came in. It was great to see all of them in the
>> pattern. Met Steve
>> >E., Mike Cuy, Bill Rewey and others. I believe 16 planes
>> flew in. There
>> >was a strong crosswind from the West. They landed on 36-18
>> and one plane
>> >lost a wheel and ground looped. Don't think the pilot was
>> hurt and don't
>> >know how much damage was done to the plane. Didn't get the
>> name of the
>> >pilot.
>> >
>> >Bill Rewey's Pietenpol forum was well attended. Good info and many
>> >questions.
>> >
>> >Arden Adamson
>> >(I have the Pietenpol plans but haven't started building yet.)
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of
>> >> John Duprey
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 8:50 PM
>> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >> Subject: Steve E.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hey I guess Steve E. is having so much Fun he forgot to keep us
>> >> updated. Oh well ... I know we will hear all about it
>> when he returns &
>> >> be jealous(sp?) as hell.
>> >>
>> >> John Duprey
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Staples in ribs |
If you leave the staples in they had better be stainless steel otherwise the
moisture that is present in the wood will eventually rust them. Besides the
ugly staining, the staples will expand when they rust and possibly could
split the wood.
It's also recommended that bolt holes be sealed on the inside before the
bolts are put in for the same reason.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
Boy, do I feel like I missed out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
Glad you made it home safe and sound, Steve!
Your bird sure looks good in all the video I shot, so I'll send it on to
Richard for his website.
May your Tailwind be a-stirring in the garage!
Mike List
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> Both duane and I are home safe.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Autogyros & UL&X |
Adolfo;
This would appeal to me!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 6:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Autogyros & UL&X
>Dear everyone:
>
>Could anyone please remind me the address of the autogyros' page? I
>mean, the one that was within AirCamper.org, I seem to remember.
>
>I had it in my favourites, but after my last computer catastrophe it
>must have gone lost into cyberspace.
>
>By the way, I am about to set up a website called UL&X (for ultralight
>and experimental). There is an amazing magazine in Argentina called
>that, and the page would be, in principle, named after that. The mag is
>out of this world. I mean, it doesn't just have reports on aircrafts
>you are never going to be able to afford, but it is a sort of a
>building manual, but techniques, alternative materials, etc., like a
>kind of mixture between a mag and a FAA's C.A.. Apart from that, I have
>been arranging with the editor to print a version in English. In the
>website there would be a lot of building tips, sights, reports, etc,
>and also a section of plans. We are planning to publish plans of the
>Bleriot there, as well as other pioneer planes, again with tons of
>building tips and the like.
>Would that be of interest to you all?
>
>Fito
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Autogyros & UL&X |
Does anybody have a good source for spruce, plywood and 4130 in the Dallas
area?
Thanks,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogyros & UL&X |
Tom,
Spruce is hard to find in TX. I bought some of mine from Paxton's lumber
but I don't know if they still carry it. Try looking for Douglas Fir. I
think you might find some at Lowe's and Home Depot.
I bought GL-2 and Baltic Birch ply at Plywood and Door Specialty company or
something like that in Dallas. Holler if you have trouble finding them and
I'll dig for their name. They were close to Stemmons.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 12:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Autogyros & UL&X
>Does anybody have a good source for spruce, plywood and 4130 in the Dallas
>area?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Memories |
>correction please---I said "stark nekkid",,meant to say "Buck
Nekkid"....got my
>tongue caught in my eye teeth and could'nt see what I was saying
>JoeC
>fishin wrote:
>
Joe- Randy Bruce of Orlando FL owns and did the artwork himself of that
pretty Pietenpol. A VERY nice guy with a great sense of humor.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Outstanding Workmanship Award |
Congratulations to fellow Pietenpoler Duane Woolsey for
getting this award at Oshkosh !!!!!!
Way to go, Duane !!
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogyros & UL&X |
Dear everyone:
I'm feverishly working on it. The preview to the magazine, as well as
some useful tips will be in a website I am setting up to that end.
The topics will be such as (and distributed in):
* building it in wood (6 issues)
* Flight manual of amateur built aircrafts (10+ issues)
* Alternative materials.
* Pulleys.
* Making fuel tanks.
* Reviews on flying Oddities.
* Flight with two-stroke engines (2 issues).
* Calculating an airframe.
* Steel cables.
* Chanute-Herring glider.
* Etc.
I will let you know when everything is set-up, so that everyone can
sneak in and take a look. By the way, if you all want to send articles
on different aspects of building, it will be most welcome.
Adolfo Pando
--- Earl Myers wrote:
> Adolfo;
> This would appeal to me!
> Earl Myers
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 6:27 PM
> Subject: Autogyros & UL&X
>
>
> >Dear everyone:
> >
> >Could anyone please remind me the address of the
> autogyros' page? I
> >mean, the one that was within AirCamper.org, I seem
> to remember.
> >
> >I had it in my favourites, but after my last
> computer catastrophe it
> >must have gone lost into cyberspace.
> >
> >By the way, I am about to set up a website called
> UL&X (for ultralight
> >and experimental). There is an amazing magazine in
> Argentina called
> >that, and the page would be, in principle, named
> after that. The mag is
> >out of this world. I mean, it doesn't just have
> reports on aircrafts
> >you are never going to be able to afford, but it is
> a sort of a
> >building manual, but techniques, alternative
> materials, etc., like a
> >kind of mixture between a mag and a FAA's C.A..
> Apart from that, I have
> >been arranging with the editor to print a version
> in English. In the
> >website there would be a lot of building tips,
> sights, reports, etc,
> >and also a section of plans. We are planning to
> publish plans of the
> >Bleriot there, as well as other pioneer planes,
> again with tons of
> >building tips and the like.
> >Would that be of interest to you all?
> >
> >Fito
> >
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Gentlemen,
I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight grain)
but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to get it
to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2". Others
are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers" (spaced
every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put some
vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards from
warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have a
humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is now
at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of the
wood averages 15 to 17%.
I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4 months) in
my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
suggestions/experience along these lines?
If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once my Sky
Scout is finished.
I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if anyone is
interested.
Thanks,
Distribution Design Specialist
* Lucent Technologies, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sitka Spruce |
Hi Russell,
I would be interested in all of your information. Sounds like well thought
out and detailed information. "Good on ya, mate"!
Warren
"Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight grain)
> but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to get it
> to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2". Others
> are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
>
> I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers" (spaced
> every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put some
> vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards from
> warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
>
> I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have a
> humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is now
> at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of the
> wood averages 15 to 17%.
>
> I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4 months) in
> my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
>
> Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> suggestions/experience along these lines?
>
> If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once my Sky
> Scout is finished.
>
> I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if anyone is
> interested.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 17 Arrived at Oshkosh |
Guys- We had 17 Piets/GN-1's at Oshkosh Weds, Thurs. of last week.
I will list the names of all here soon.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: well, that does it |
Richard;
Don't panic ref this stick coming loose without being gusseted! I don't
even bother with the end grain issue. I just dabT-88 on the end to seal it
then glue it in place with the gussets. The surface adhesion with the
gussets is where the stress travels to & fro so to speak. Having a nice
tight fit with the ends of the x-bracing does help to keep the whole thing
from making strange noises when you pull the tail post parts together.
Someone on here said to have the floor and seat in BEFORE you pull the thing
together. That is so correct! FROM THE SEAT FORWARD, you must have the thing
all together, sides, gussets ,x-braces, floor as the seatback area is going
to be the pivot point. As I have said about my Scout before, when I pulled
it together at the tail, it was an eye opener as it was 3" wider at the seat
back than plans and is some 18" shorter depending on the version of the
A/C.....It was talking to me alot but it was all glued together forward of
the seatback and WELL cured so no problem........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: well, that does it
>I just saw my life flash before my eyes... I was sanding one of the
>cross pieces on the floor of my Piet, which was glued into place, I
>thought, and the blasted thing CAME OFF!!! This is a piece that I had
>glued in and considered done!! Holy *&%$!! How can I possibly get in
>this thing and fly it?? Granted there were no gussets on it yet, but
>holy &%$!!
>
>How can I ever be sure of any of the 100's of other joints I've already
>done?? I've had my share of setbacks in this project, but this takes
>the cake...
>
>Where's that Aircraft Shopper mag I had the other day...
>
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>----------------------------------------------------------
>http://www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>----------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Russ;
I am about to complete Scout NX899EM per the plans except for the fuse
being widened at the seatback 3". There are numerous glaring errors on the
plans. I would be interested in your compilation as I was contacted by
someone in the Hoopman/Pietenpol clan to have these issues changed on the
drawings. I believe this Gentleman's name was a Mr. Gleason......I have
partial documentation of those changes. Watch the wing/aileron
dimensions!!!! Also, the fuselage fittings need to have more airspace
between the bolt holes especially around the engine mount and cabane
fittings. I am in contact with two guys that have finished Scouts of
excellent quality that are not on the Piet list (both hate computers). They
have together built DR1's, Sopwith triplanes, other Piets and several
others..........I also get a lot of non-Piet e-mail that comes thru AT&T
from Lucent Tech............not aviation stuff.........I would be interested
in anything Scout so keep in touch. I have the radiator/wheel /engine thing
done so can help you there. Enjoy
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout
>Gentlemen,
>
>Since I am not on the way to Broadhead I am viewing the flying clips on the
>Pietenpol website. Maybe next year I can make it.
>
>I have been building a Sky Scout for a couple of years and am about 50%
>finished with the fuselage. I haven't started the wings yet but the tail
>feathers are nearly complete.
>
>I am building per the plans but I think this is somewhat of a misnomer
since
>the plans have many mistakes/typos. Would anyone be interested in
compiling
>a list of these inaccuracies for both the Sky Scout and Aircamper. I can
>contribute many for the Sky Scout.
>
>I hope to have the fuse. on the gear soon. Then I can put the ply on the
>sides, remount the model A engine (not yet rebuilt), and sit in it in my
>back yard and make airplane noises. Since I live in a rural community, I
>figure I can get away with this for several hours before the men in white
>coats show up.
>
>I have many questions, but also many tricks and helpful tips that I have
>learned along the way if anyone is interested. I do not have any expensive
>tools so I have learned to use what I call "poor mans accuracy".
>
>I have something that I can share. I have taken all of the back issues of
>the BHP Newsletter and compiled a list of tips etc. that pertain to the Sky
>Scout. These are in a "Word" document. When I am working on the rudder
for
>example, I can use the search function (Find/Replace) and it searches my
>document and stops at every mention of the word "rudder" where there will
be
>a brief description and the Issue and page number to go to in the
>newsletter.
>
>I did this because I knew that I had seen a "tip" that was applicable, but
I
>could not find it without looking through all of the back issues. My crude
>explanation does not do it justice but I have found it very helpful. If
>anyone is interested I can email the Word document.
>
>Remember that I only noted things that pertained to the Sky Scout, but each
>person could add items that may pertain to their project.
>
>Sincerely,
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> *Tel: 404.814.6950
> *Fax: 404.814.6968
> * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Staples in ribs |
Sir;
Can yee tell me what that stapler type is? I have several over the years
but haven't found one that is totally acceptable...
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: David Atnip <davida@mo-net.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 11:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Staples in ribs
>You all may know this, but I found that they make a stapler like the one
used
>for ceiling tile, only this one is about 1/2 the size. I found it at a
local
>True Value Hardware. It works great. i did not pull my staples from the
wood
>because i thought like you . The varnish will seal the wood and staples...
>
>oil can wrote:
>
>> I've heard it both ways. I used staples for light clamping pressure with
>> t-88, then pulled the staples and pilot drilled w/#65 drill bit, then
used
>> nails.
>>
>> Lastly, if you staple, a good way is to put a narrow 050, or 035 shim
under
>> the stapler, then staple. That way the staple doesn't go all the way in
and
>> it's easier to pull out after the gussets set up.
>>
>> >From: "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com>
>> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >Subject: Staples in ribs
>> >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0500
>> >
>> >I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in
the
>> >ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of
staples.
>> >I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was varnished.
>> >When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in the answer
was
>> >that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is there any
comments
>> >on this?
>> >Craig Hanson
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Now that everyones back. |
Steve wrote:
Glad yall had such a great time at Broadhead! Now I have some questions.
Is anyone running a direct drive soob ea-81 in their Piet/GN-1? If so
what are the performance figures like.
Another question! Didnt one of you expalin you would send me a copy of
your soob ea-81 redrive plans when yall got back home? Anyhow my plans
are to get busy on my GN-1 pretty soon so root for me and I sure am glad
I have yall to ask my naieve questions to.
Steve W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sitka Spruce |
Warren,
Here are the moisture meters URL's
http://electrophysics.on.ca/ep_home.htm
http://www.moisturemeter.com/index.htm
http://www.geneq.com/catalog/en/dwmm.htm
Here is some info on wood drying.
http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=moisture+content+meter&oq=&url=
http%3A//www.anu.edu.au/Forestry/atdg/standard.html&ti=ATDG+-+Timber+Drying+
Quality+Standard+footer&top=
http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=drying&oq=wood&url=http%3A//www
.woodfibre.com/wood/a/view/wf0315.html&ti=Wood+World+-+IWE+Lumber+Drying+Ser
vices+Exchange+Listings&top=
I also found good information in the EAA's book, Building Wooden
Aircraft which is a compilation of articles from past magazines.
Also, "Fine Woodworking" magazine publishes a softcover book titled
Wood and How to Dry It that is helpful.
Email the fellow below (out of Canada) to find out about Sitka
spruce or Douglas fur etc. You can get it rough-cut for around $3.00 to
$4.00 per board foot whereas the aircraft supply houses charge around $16.00
per board foot. The cost quickly rises though when you add shipping
charges, humidifier, moisture meter and divorce lawyers.
Still though I'm thinking way less than half of what the aircraft
places charge. Also, I'll have to find a way to cut and mill those large
pieces. I'm also sure there will be some waste.
Hope this helps,
[SMTP:tbailey(at)direct.ca]
> ----------
> From: Warren Shoun[SMTP:wbnb(at)earthlink.net]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 11:11 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
>
> Hi Russell,
> I would be interested in all of your information. Sounds like well
> thought
> out and detailed information. "Good on ya, mate"!
> Warren
>
> "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" wrote:
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
> grain)
> > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
> get it
> > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
> Others
> > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
> >
> > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> (spaced
> > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
> some
> > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
> from
> > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> >
> > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have a
> > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
> now
> > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
> the
> > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> >
> > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> months) in
> > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> >
> > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> >
> > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once my
> Sky
> > Scout is finished.
> >
> > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> anyone is
> > interested.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Distribution Design Specialist
> > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hodge <KHodge(at)cwcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead pics/videos? |
I would also love to receive any pics / short video clips of Brodhead 99
Keith Hodge
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: 03 August 1999 19:51
| Subject: | Brodhead pics/videos? |
> May be a little early yet, but does anyone have any pictures/videos
> from Brodhead '99? I've got over 3 Gig to fill, and an eager audience!
>
> Richard
> ===
> http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
> ____
> Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim moosey <mooset(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogyros & UL&X |
Tom
There is a place near downtown Dallas that has good Finnish Birch Ply its
called Plywood and Door. When you call ask for Tom.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 12:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Autogyros & UL&X
>Does anybody have a good source for spruce, plywood and 4130 in the Dallas
>area?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: unsubscribe for now |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: BPA Newsletter |
Duane,
Mine came intact. If you would like and if you would give me your address,
I'll copy mine and send it to you pronto.
Arden Adamson
-----Original Message-----
Duane
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 5:40 PM
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Subject: BPA Newsletter
Got my BPA newsletter Issue 63 yesterday and there were missing pages
as
well as duplicate pages. Looks like I got a miss assembled newslettter.
Could be a collectors item. Has any body else had the same problem. It's
missing pages 5, 6, 11 and 12 and has duplicates of 7, 8, 9 and 10.
Duane Revennaugh
________________________________________________________________________________
I am receiving duplicates of all Pietenpol E-Mail.
How do we cut it down to singles??
DG
________________________________________________________________________________
Russell,
If (when?) you compile that word document of Sky Scout errata please put me
on the distribution/contributer list.
Thank you,
DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I've kept my used staples from out of my ribs, fus.sides and tail. I
have a 12oz. frozen lemonade can nearly full with still more stapleing
to do. The can weights 3 or 4 lbs. That could be important with the
heavy low power A motor. Even while building, I found that I still
wasted plenty of time in front of the tv. An excellent time to remove
staples. Put something over your lap to protect the family jewels. also
remember the lamp next your chair. I like the Arrow JT211 stapler and
Craftsman (Sears) #974424 1/4 in. staples. Grams become oz's, and oz's
become Lbs. etc. L.S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sitka Spruce |
Russell:
Some thoughts on drying wood.
I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be too
short.
Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep the
lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand, maybe
15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
space.
What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
change
too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
internal stress.
You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at the
way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
around the wet wood.
Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
prevent twisting and warping.
Randy Stockberger
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> Gentlemen,
>
> I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
grain)
> but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
get it
> to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
Others
> are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
>
> I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
(spaced
> every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
some
> vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
from
> warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
>
> I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have
a
> humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
now
> at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
the
> wood averages 15 to 17%.
>
> I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
months) in
> my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
>
> Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> suggestions/experience along these lines?
>
> If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
my Sky
> Scout is finished.
>
> I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
anyone is
> interested.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> *Tel: 404.814.6950
> *Fax: 404.814.6968
> * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry////// NEWS FLASH/Brodhead discription |
Thanks for the discription Ted
That's just the way I remember it! Didn't make it this year but will
try again. The freindly people in this group are as much fun as the
Pietenpols themsevles.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Staples in ribs |
Earl- I had very good luck with the Arrow T25P stapler, which uses t25
staples. These are the rounded staples that are used to staple 1/4 inch
telephone wire. The rounded crown sticks above the mahogany plywood, but
still gives plenty of clamping pressure for T-88 epoxy with good glue
squeeze. The nice thing about these staples is that you can then use an
angled needle nose pliers to get under the crown and easily pull the staples
out without scarring the plywood. You can get this stapler at any large
hardware store.
Al Swanson
>Sir;
> Can yee tell me what that stapler type is? I have several over the years
>but haven't found one that is totally acceptable...
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Atnip <davida@mo-net.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 11:58 PM
>Subject: Re: Staples in ribs
>
>
>>You all may know this, but I found that they make a stapler like the one
>used
>>for ceiling tile, only this one is about 1/2 the size. I found it at a
>local
>>True Value Hardware. It works great. i did not pull my staples from the
>wood
>>because i thought like you . The varnish will seal the wood and staples...
>>
>>oil can wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard it both ways. I used staples for light clamping pressure with
>>> t-88, then pulled the staples and pilot drilled w/#65 drill bit, then
>used
>>> nails.
>>>
>>> Lastly, if you staple, a good way is to put a narrow 050, or 035 shim
>under
>>> the stapler, then staple. That way the staple doesn't go all the way in
>and
>>> it's easier to pull out after the gussets set up.
>>>
>>> >From: "Craig L.Hanson" <chanson(at)polar.polarcomm.com>
>>> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> >Subject: Staples in ribs
>>> >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0500
>>> >
>>> >I seen alot of ribs made with small steel or simular material left in
>the
>>> >ribs. I also seen at Brodhead a fuse. that had the same kind of
>staples.
>>> >I was told that these had to be taken out before the wood was varnished.
>>> >When I asked at Oshkosh and Brodhead why they were left in the answer
>was
>>> >that when you varnish over them they would not rust. Is there any
>comments
>>> >on this?
>>> >Craig Hanson
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com (Carpenter, Joel) |
| Subject: | Fw: Sitka Spruce |
for those that wish not to wait for the one or more years for the moisture
content to fall, a small drying kiln could be constructed. FINE WOODWORKING
had plans for a small kiln made of plywood, a 100 watt light bulb, a small
fan, and a dehumidifier at one end. the light bulb provided a small amount
of heat, which absorbed moisture from the wood, which was condensed at the
end with the dehumidifier. it was a very slick outfit, and could dry lumber
at a fraction of the time.
> From: Randy Stockberger
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
> Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:25 PM
>
> Russell:
>
> Some thoughts on drying wood.
>
> I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be too
> short.
>
> Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
> inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
> 15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
>
> In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep the
> lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand, maybe
> 15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
> space.
> What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
> change
> too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
> internal stress.
>
> You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at the
> way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
> around the wet wood.
>
> Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
> prevent twisting and warping.
>
> Randy Stockberger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> Subject: Sitka Spruce
>
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
> grain)
> > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
> get it
> > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
> Others
> > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
> >
> > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> (spaced
> > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
> some
> > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
> from
> > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> >
> > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have
> a
> > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
> now
> > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
> the
> > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> >
> > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> months) in
> > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> >
> > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> >
> > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
> my Sky
> > Scout is finished.
> >
> > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> anyone is
> > interested.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Distribution Design Specialist
> > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> > *Tel: 404.814.6950
> > *Fax: 404.814.6968
> > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sitka Spruce |
Randy,
Thanks for the info. I should have said that I have a de-humidifier---not a
humidifier.
The current moisture content in my wood is 17%. I'm trying to get it down
to 12%. That is a difference of 5%. If I drop the moisture content 1/2%
per month--that would take 10 months. Does that sound more reasonable?
I guess that I may have to add heat at the later stages. My workshop is in
a basement that stays a nice even 75 deg. (F) which makes for a pleasent
place to work in the summer time. I'd hate to spoil that.
I did put scrap wood (1/2 inch pine) on top of all exposed pieces of "good"
wood. I continued with the 1" stickers between the "good" wood and the
scrap wood. I hoped this would keep the exposed "faces" of the good wood
from drying faster than than those deeper in the stack.
I thought about the kiln as you mentioned. I may still have to go that
route but I'm struggling with a 13' airplane. I'm hesitant to take on a 20'
kiln.
Thanks again,
> ----------
> From: CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com[SMTP:CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:14 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Fw: Sitka Spruce
>
> for those that wish not to wait for the one or more years for the moisture
> content to fall, a small drying kiln could be constructed. FINE
> WOODWORKING
> had plans for a small kiln made of plywood, a 100 watt light bulb, a small
> fan, and a dehumidifier at one end. the light bulb provided a small amount
> of heat, which absorbed moisture from the wood, which was condensed at the
> end with the dehumidifier. it was a very slick outfit, and could dry
> lumber
> at a fraction of the time.
>
> ----------
> > From: Randy Stockberger
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
> > Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:25 PM
> >
> > Russell:
> >
> > Some thoughts on drying wood.
> >
> > I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be too
> > short.
> >
> > Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
> > inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
> > 15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
> >
> > In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep the
> > lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand, maybe
> > 15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
> > space.
> > What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
> > change
> > too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
> > internal stress.
> >
> > You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at the
> > way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
> > around the wet wood.
> >
> > Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
> > prevent twisting and warping.
> >
> > Randy Stockberger
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> > Subject: Sitka Spruce
> >
> >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> > > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
> > grain)
> > > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
> > get it
> > > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
> > Others
> > > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
> > >
> > > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> > (spaced
> > > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
> > some
> > > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
> > from
> > > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> > >
> > > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have
> > a
> > > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
> > now
> > > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
> > the
> > > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> > >
> > > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> > months) in
> > > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> > >
> > > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> > >
> > > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
> > my Sky
> > > Scout is finished.
> > >
> > > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> > anyone is
> > > interested.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Distribution Design Specialist
> > > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> > > *Tel: 404.814.6950
> > > *Fax: 404.814.6968
> > > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
> > >
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
| Subject: | RE: Sitka Spruce |
Do you really think that 12% is reasonable to expect in Atlanta. If you get
it dried to 12% and then have it around your shop for awhile, won't it probably
work its way back up to about 15%?? Even after you get it sealed with a two
part epoxy or urethane varnish, it will still probably creep back up. I
don't have a source for this, just comes to mind and is based on a lot of years
of sporadic reading about wood. Should my above supposition be reasonable,
wouldn't it be better to aim for 15% and use your wood six months sooner?
Conjecturely yours,
Mike Bell
Columbia,SC
At least as humid as Atlanta
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/06/99 07:50:33 AM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sitka Spruce
Randy,
Thanks for the info. I should have said that I have a de-humidifier---not a
humidifier.
The current moisture content in my wood is 17%. I'm trying to get it down
to 12%. That is a difference of 5%. If I drop the moisture content 1/2%
per month--that would take 10 months. Does that sound more reasonable?
I guess that I may have to add heat at the later stages. My workshop is in
a basement that stays a nice even 75 deg. (F) which makes for a pleasent
place to work in the summer time. I'd hate to spoil that.
I did put scrap wood (1/2 inch pine) on top of all exposed pieces of "good"
wood. I continued with the 1" stickers between the "good" wood and the
scrap wood. I hoped this would keep the exposed "faces" of the good wood
from drying faster than than those deeper in the stack.
I thought about the kiln as you mentioned. I may still have to go that
route but I'm struggling with a 13' airplane. I'm hesitant to take on a 20'
kiln.
Thanks again,
> ----------
> From: CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com[SMTP:CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:14 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Fw: Sitka Spruce
>
> for those that wish not to wait for the one or more years for the moisture
> content to fall, a small drying kiln could be constructed. FINE
> WOODWORKING
> had plans for a small kiln made of plywood, a 100 watt light bulb, a small
> fan, and a dehumidifier at one end. the light bulb provided a small amount
> of heat, which absorbed moisture from the wood, which was condensed at the
> end with the dehumidifier. it was a very slick outfit, and could dry
> lumber
> at a fraction of the time.
>
> ----------
> > From: Randy Stockberger
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
> > Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:25 PM
> >
> > Russell:
> >
> > Some thoughts on drying wood.
> >
> > I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be too
> > short.
> >
> > Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
> > inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
> > 15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
> >
> > In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep the
> > lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand, maybe
> > 15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
> > space.
> > What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
> > change
> > too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
> > internal stress.
> >
> > You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at the
> > way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
> > around the wet wood.
> >
> > Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
> > prevent twisting and warping.
> >
> > Randy Stockberger
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> > Subject: Sitka Spruce
> >
> >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
> > > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
> > grain)
> > > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
> > get it
> > > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
> > Others
> > > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
> > >
> > > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> > (spaced
> > > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
> > some
> > > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
> > from
> > > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> > >
> > > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have
> > a
> > > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
> > now
> > > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
> > the
> > > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> > >
> > > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> > months) in
> > > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> > >
> > > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> > >
> > > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
> > my Sky
> > > Scout is finished.
> > >
> > > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> > anyone is
> > > interested.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Distribution Design Specialist
> > > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> > > *Tel: 404.814.6950
> > > *Fax: 404.814.6968
> > > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
> > >
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | List of Piets at Osh |
The following Piets/GN-1's were in attendance on opening day
of Oshkosh, 1999....in no particular order.
1) NX184BP JoBeth and Robert Barrett, Palmyra, WI
2) NX497AR Lowell Frank
3) C-GFCU Irving Sloan, Ottawa, Ontario
4) N799JK Jim Kinsella, Louisville, KY
5) N83788 Virl Deal, St. Ansgar, IA
6) NX13691 Andrew King/Jim Hammond, OH
7) NX899BB Clyde Buckley, MI
8) N28LT Randy Bruce, Orlando, FL
9) NX899FP Frank Pavliga, Rootstown, OH
10) N30PP Ted Brousseau, Naples, FL
11) N14926 Wil Graff, Wadsworth, OH
12) NX17WR Bill Rewey, Verona, WI
13) N7229R Steve Eldredge, Provo, UT
14) NX6398 Duane Woolsey, Provo, UT
15) N350MB Mitchel Burns, Brookfield, MO
16) N3844 Kim Stricker, Jackson, MO
17) NX48MC Michael Cuy, Valley City, OH
The following Piets/GN-1's were in attendance on opening day
of Oshkosh, 1999....in no particular order.
1) NX184BP JoBeth and Robert Barrett, Palmyra, WI
2) NX497AR Lowell
Frank
3) C-GFCU Irving Sloan, Ottawa,
Ontario
4) N799JK Jim Kinsella, Louisville, KY
5) N83788 Virl Deal, St. Ansgar, IA
6) NX13691 Andrew King/Jim Hammond, OH
7) NX899BB Clyde Buckley, MI
8) N28LT Randy Bruce, Orlando, FL
9) NX899FP Frank Pavliga, Rootstown, OH
10) N30PP Ted Brousseau, Naples, FL
11) N14926 Wil Graff, Wadsworth, OH
12) NX17WR Bill Rewey, Verona, WI
13) N7229R Steve Eldredge, Provo, UT
14) NX6398 Duane Woolsey, Provo, UT
15) N350MB Mitchel Burns, Brookfield, MO
16) N3844 Kim Stricker, Jackson, MO
17) NX48MC Michael Cuy, Valley City, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | TWO WINNERS at OSH !!! |
Not only did one Piet win an outstanding workmanship award,
but TWO.........at Oshkosh !!
Way to go, guys !!
Outstanding Workmanship Plans Built -- Duane Woolsey, Provo, UT, Pietenpol.
Bruce, Sanford, FL, Pietenpol.
Not only did one Piet win an outstanding workmanship award,
but TWO.........at Oshkosh !!
Way to go, guys !!
Outstanding Workmanship Plans Built -- Duane Woolsey,
Provo, UT, Pietenpol.
Randy Bruce, Sanford, FL, Pietenpol.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Spurgeon <cspurgeon(at)baseballexp.com> |
| Subject: | Steel Tube Fuselage |
Greetings,
Was wondering if anyone has good info on the pros & cons of wood vs.
steel tube fuselage. Have read in the various BPAN literature of
weight savings of around 20 lbs - with all the emphasis on weight
reduction this sounds like a compelling reason to go this way, but
apparently very few do - would appreciate any feedback!
Thanks!
Clay Spurgeon
Director of Marketing & Merchandising
Baseball Express, Inc.
210-348-7000 X4300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sitka Spruce |
Mike,
I tend to agree with you. Maybe I was under the false impression that
moisture content had a direct correlation to strength. I am sure that there
is a correlation, but maybe the difference is minimal between 12 and 15%.
I thought that I would try to keep the relative humidity in my shop at the
same percentage that is required to get the wood to it's final equalibrium
(12% for example). Then I would varnish before rolling the airplane out
into the Georgia humidity.
I guess you are saying that the wood would eventually creep back up to
around 15% which would be its more natural equilibrium state in a humid
climate. This would cause expansion of the wood which may cause glue joints
to fail-- a very unsettling thought.
Then is it fair to say that the final moisture content of wood should be
targeted for a percentage (15%) that can be maintained by your local
conditions.
Thanks,
> ----------
> From:
> mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com[SMTP:mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 8:27 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Sitka Spruce
>
> Do you really think that 12% is reasonable to expect in Atlanta. If you
> get
> it dried to 12% and then have it around your shop for awhile, won't it
> probably
> work its way back up to about 15%?? Even after you get it sealed with a
> two
> part epoxy or urethane varnish, it will still probably creep back up. I
> don't have a source for this, just comes to mind and is based on a lot of
> years
> of sporadic reading about wood. Should my above supposition be
> reasonable,
> wouldn't it be better to aim for 15% and use your wood six months sooner?
>
> Conjecturely yours,
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia,SC
> At least as humid as Atlanta
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/06/99 07:50:33 AM
> Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>
>
> To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> cc:
>
> Subject: RE: Sitka Spruce
>
> Randy,
>
> Thanks for the info. I should have said that I have a de-humidifier---not
> a
> humidifier.
>
> The current moisture content in my wood is 17%. I'm trying to get it down
> to 12%. That is a difference of 5%. If I drop the moisture content 1/2%
> per month--that would take 10 months. Does that sound more reasonable?
>
> I guess that I may have to add heat at the later stages. My workshop is
> in
> a basement that stays a nice even 75 deg. (F) which makes for a pleasent
> place to work in the summer time. I'd hate to spoil that.
>
> I did put scrap wood (1/2 inch pine) on top of all exposed pieces of
> "good"
> wood. I continued with the 1" stickers between the "good" wood and the
> scrap wood. I hoped this would keep the exposed "faces" of the good wood
> from drying faster than than those deeper in the stack.
>
> I thought about the kiln as you mentioned. I may still have to go that
> route but I'm struggling with a 13' airplane. I'm hesitant to take on a
> 20'
> kiln.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> > ----------
> > From: CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com[SMTP:CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com]
> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:14 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Fw: Sitka Spruce
> >
> > for those that wish not to wait for the one or more years for the
> moisture
> > content to fall, a small drying kiln could be constructed. FINE
> > WOODWORKING
> > had plans for a small kiln made of plywood, a 100 watt light bulb, a
> small
> > fan, and a dehumidifier at one end. the light bulb provided a small
> amount
> > of heat, which absorbed moisture from the wood, which was condensed at
> the
> > end with the dehumidifier. it was a very slick outfit, and could dry
> > lumber
> > at a fraction of the time.
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Randy Stockberger
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
> > > Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:25 PM
> > >
> > > Russell:
> > >
> > > Some thoughts on drying wood.
> > >
> > > I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be
> too
> > > short.
> > >
> > > Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
> > > inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
> > > 15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
> > >
> > > In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep
> the
> > > lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand,
> maybe
> > > 15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
> > > space.
> > > What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
> > > change
> > > too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
> > > internal stress.
> > >
> > > You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at
> the
> > > way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
> > > around the wet wood.
> > >
> > > Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
> > > prevent twisting and warping.
> > >
> > > Randy Stockberger
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> > > Subject: Sitka Spruce
> > >
> > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > >
> > > > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill
> in
> > > > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
> > > grain)
> > > > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try
> to
> > > get it
> > > > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
> > > Others
> > > > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow
> Cedar.
> > > >
> > > > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> > > (spaced
> > > > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I
> put
> > > some
> > > > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
> > > from
> > > > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> > > >
> > > > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I
> have
> > > a
> > > > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop
> is
> > > now
> > > > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content
> of
> > > the
> > > > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> > > >
> > > > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> > > months) in
> > > > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> > > >
> > > > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > > > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> > > >
> > > > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
> > > my Sky
> > > > Scout is finished.
> > > >
> > > > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> > > anyone is
> > > > interested.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Distribution Design Specialist
> > > > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> > > > *Tel: 404.814.6950
> > > > *Fax: 404.814.6968
> > > > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Sitka Spruce |
As an afterthought. I think that I recently read that propeller makers try
to get their wood to 8% moisture content. The reason was stated that a
propeller is susceptible to balance problems associated with excess
moisture.
Regardless, how do they keep this low moisture content.
> ----------
> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 9:17 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Sitka Spruce
>
> Mike,
>
> I tend to agree with you. Maybe I was under the false impression that
> moisture content had a direct correlation to strength. I am sure that
> there
> is a correlation, but maybe the difference is minimal between 12 and 15%.
>
> I thought that I would try to keep the relative humidity in my shop at the
> same percentage that is required to get the wood to it's final equalibrium
> (12% for example). Then I would varnish before rolling the airplane out
> into the Georgia humidity.
>
> I guess you are saying that the wood would eventually creep back up to
> around 15% which would be its more natural equilibrium state in a humid
> climate. This would cause expansion of the wood which may cause glue
> joints
> to fail-- a very unsettling thought.
>
> Then is it fair to say that the final moisture content of wood should be
> targeted for a percentage (15%) that can be maintained by your local
> conditions.
>
> Thanks,
> > ----------
> > From:
> > mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com[SMTP:mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com]
> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 8:27 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: RE: Sitka Spruce
> >
> > Do you really think that 12% is reasonable to expect in Atlanta. If
> you
> > get
> > it dried to 12% and then have it around your shop for awhile, won't it
> > probably
> > work its way back up to about 15%?? Even after you get it sealed with
> a
> > two
> > part epoxy or urethane varnish, it will still probably creep back up.
> I
> > don't have a source for this, just comes to mind and is based on a lot
> of
> > years
> > of sporadic reading about wood. Should my above supposition be
> > reasonable,
> > wouldn't it be better to aim for 15% and use your wood six months
> sooner?
> >
> > Conjecturely yours,
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia,SC
> > At least as humid as Atlanta
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/06/99 07:50:33 AM
> > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> >
> >
> > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: RE: Sitka Spruce
> >
> > Randy,
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I should have said that I have a
> de-humidifier---not
> > a
> > humidifier.
> >
> > The current moisture content in my wood is 17%. I'm trying to get it
> down
> > to 12%. That is a difference of 5%. If I drop the moisture content
> 1/2%
> > per month--that would take 10 months. Does that sound more reasonable?
> >
> > I guess that I may have to add heat at the later stages. My workshop is
> > in
> > a basement that stays a nice even 75 deg. (F) which makes for a pleasent
> > place to work in the summer time. I'd hate to spoil that.
> >
> > I did put scrap wood (1/2 inch pine) on top of all exposed pieces of
> > "good"
> > wood. I continued with the 1" stickers between the "good" wood and the
> > scrap wood. I hoped this would keep the exposed "faces" of the good
> wood
> > from drying faster than than those deeper in the stack.
> >
> > I thought about the kiln as you mentioned. I may still have to go that
> > route but I'm struggling with a 13' airplane. I'm hesitant to take on a
> > 20'
> > kiln.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com[SMTP:CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com]
> > > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:14 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Fw: Sitka Spruce
> > >
> > > for those that wish not to wait for the one or more years for the
> > moisture
> > > content to fall, a small drying kiln could be constructed. FINE
> > > WOODWORKING
> > > had plans for a small kiln made of plywood, a 100 watt light bulb, a
> > small
> > > fan, and a dehumidifier at one end. the light bulb provided a small
> > amount
> > > of heat, which absorbed moisture from the wood, which was condensed at
> > the
> > > end with the dehumidifier. it was a very slick outfit, and could dry
> > > lumber
> > > at a fraction of the time.
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Randy Stockberger
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Subject: Re: Sitka Spruce
> > > > Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:25 PM
> > > >
> > > > Russell:
> > > >
> > > > Some thoughts on drying wood.
> > > >
> > > > I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be
> > too
> > > > short.
> > > >
> > > > Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for
> each
> > > > inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to
> around
> > > > 15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
> > > >
> > > > In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep
> > the
> > > > lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand,
> > maybe
> > > > 15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an
> unheated
> > > > space.
> > > > What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content
> to
> > > > change
> > > > too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes
> and
> > > > internal stress.
> > > >
> > > > You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at
> > the
> > > > way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good
> circulation
> > > > around the wet wood.
> > > >
> > > > Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will
> help
> > > > prevent twisting and warping.
> > > >
> > > > Randy Stockberger
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> > > > Subject: Sitka Spruce
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber
> mill
> > in
> > > > > Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful
> straight
> > > > grain)
> > > > > but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try
> > to
> > > > get it
> > > > > to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x
> 2".
> > > > Others
> > > > > are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow
> > Cedar.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
> > > > (spaced
> > > > > every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I
> > put
> > > > some
> > > > > vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good
> boards
> > > > from
> > > > > warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
> > > > >
> > > > > I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I
> > have
> > > > a
> > > > > humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my
> shop
> > is
> > > > now
> > > > > at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture
> content
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > wood averages 15 to 17%.
> > > > >
> > > > > I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
> > > > months) in
> > > > > my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
> > > > > suggestions/experience along these lines?
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane
> once
> > > > my Sky
> > > > > Scout is finished.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
> > > > anyone is
> > > > > interested.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Distribution Design Specialist
> > > > > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> > > > > *Tel: 404.814.6950
> > > > > *Fax: 404.814.6968
> > > > > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Steel Tube Fuselage |
One tidbit I'll offer is that where ever the plans simply bolt or screw into wood
now becomes a minor design issue. There are not the cross pieces in the metal
design like in the wood and the diagonals are different. Look at the plans
and imagine where and how you will mount the throttle (quadrant) for example.
Not as simple as just screwing into the plywood side. This type of thing will
crop up again and again. Not to say it isn't worth doing (I hope so, I'm
in the middle of one now) - just realize that the prints are made for a wooden
ship and the tube fuselage was an add-on or after thought.
Bill Sayre
> ----------
> From: Clay Spurgeon[SMTP:cspurgeon(at)baseballexp.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:15 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Steel Tube Fuselage
>
> Greetings,
>
> Was wondering if anyone has good info on the pros & cons of wood vs.
> steel tube fuselage. Have read in the various BPAN literature of
> weight savings of around 20 lbs - with all the emphasis on weight
> reduction this sounds like a compelling reason to go this way, but
> apparently very few do - would appreciate any feedback!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Clay Spurgeon
> Director of Marketing & Merchandising
> Baseball Express, Inc.
> 210-348-7000 X4300
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
I have a request for the members of this great group.
Would you please consider deleting most of the content of the e-mail when
you respond to a mailing?
The included previous message in the responses we have all received before.
The extra information is redundant and increases the file size which causes
my mail server to hang up at times. There were over a hundred messages
accumulated to wade through by the time we got it working this last time.
All that is required is to retain the portion of the mailing that you wish
to respond to. Make your reply to those points and there will be a lot less
wasted mail box room for everyone.
In addition if you would change the subject, then please change the subject
header. It helps.
Don't mean to sound like a crouch, I enjoy this list a lot.
I really don't like to bug my service provider to have my mailbox cleaned
out. Besides the usual fix is to have them delete the offending e-mails and
I might miss some pertinent information.
Thanks guys
John McNarry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TWO WINNERS at OSH !!! |
CONGRADULATIONS TO YOUSE GUYS!
EARL MYERS
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, August 06, 1999 9:00 AM
Subject: TWO WINNERS at OSH !!!
Not only did one Piet win an outstanding workmanship award,
but TWO.........at Oshkosh !!
Way to go, guys !!
Outstanding Workmanship Plans Built -- Duane Woolsey, Provo, UT,
Pietenpol.
Randy Bruce, Sanford, FL, Pietenpol.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Russell,
Here's what I did re: tires and wheels:
I bought 21" knobby tires and cut the knobs off with a utility knife. Then
I sanded them smooth with a coarse disk sander on my drill. 8-10 hours per
tire and lotsa black snot.
I covered mine with fabric. Relatively easy and looks pretty good.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 2:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Sky Scout
>Earl,
>
>Attached is the Piet Newsletter notes that I have taken. Open the document
>then hit EDIT and FIND. Then type in a key word such as "Model A" or
>"wheels". The search will stop at these words and you can see which
>newsletter is applicable. The drawback is that you will have to have all
of
>the back issues for it to be helpful.
>
> <>
>
>I haven't really compiled all of the mistakes or typos that I have run
>across in the plans. I think that the best way would be for us to pass
>around a "Word" document that we could each add to. We could have a Sky
>Scout and Aircamper document. I'll start with the points that you have
>made, add my own, then pass it along. What do you think?
>
>Now you've made me nervous about the bolt hole spacing. I noticed that
some
>fittings would not fit if made per the plans (of course I discovered this
>after making them--shame on me --or shame on the 70 year old un-corrected
>plans?). Anyway, if that is the problem then I am ok. However, if the
>problem is that the original spacing is inadequate to provide the proper
>strength--then I am in trouble.
>
>I had my wheel hubs made per the plans in one of the old newsletters. I
had
>the wheels spoked by Buchanon's Motorcycle in California. Next I need 21"
>tires. I would prefer smooth tread. Do you have any ideas?
>
>I would also like to cover the wheels. Should I use fabric or aluminum?
>
>Have you had your Model A engine rebuilt yet?
>
>Where did you get your radiator?
>
>Thanks,
>
>> ----------
>> From: Earl Myers[SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
>> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 12:00 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Sky Scout
>>
>> Russ;
>> I am about to complete Scout NX899EM per the plans except for the fuse
>> being widened at the seatback 3". There are numerous glaring errors on
the
>> plans. I would be interested in your compilation as I was contacted by
>> someone in the Hoopman/Pietenpol clan to have these issues changed on the
>> drawings. I believe this Gentleman's name was a Mr. Gleason......I have
>> partial documentation of those changes. Watch the wing/aileron
>> dimensions!!!! Also, the fuselage fittings need to have more airspace
>> between the bolt holes especially around the engine mount and cabane
>> fittings. I am in contact with two guys that have finished Scouts of
>> excellent quality that are not on the Piet list (both hate computers).
>> They
>> have together built DR1's, Sopwith triplanes, other Piets and several
>> others..........I also get a lot of non-Piet e-mail that comes thru AT&T
>> from Lucent Tech............not aviation stuff.........I would be
>> interested
>> in anything Scout so keep in touch. I have the radiator/wheel /engine
>> thing
>> done so can help you there. Enjoy
>> Earl Myers
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Sky Scout
>>
>>
>> >Gentlemen,
>> >
>> >Since I am not on the way to Broadhead I am viewing the flying clips on
>> the
>> >Pietenpol website. Maybe next year I can make it.
>> >
>> >I have been building a Sky Scout for a couple of years and am about 50%
>> >finished with the fuselage. I haven't started the wings yet but the
tail
>> >feathers are nearly complete.
>> >
>> >I am building per the plans but I think this is somewhat of a misnomer
>> since
>> >the plans have many mistakes/typos. Would anyone be interested in
>> compiling
>> >a list of these inaccuracies for both the Sky Scout and Aircamper. I
can
>> >contribute many for the Sky Scout.
>> >
>> >I hope to have the fuse. on the gear soon. Then I can put the ply on
the
>> >sides, remount the model A engine (not yet rebuilt), and sit in it in my
>> >back yard and make airplane noises. Since I live in a rural community,
I
>> >figure I can get away with this for several hours before the men in
white
>> >coats show up.
>> >
>> >I have many questions, but also many tricks and helpful tips that I have
>> >learned along the way if anyone is interested. I do not have any
>> expensive
>> >tools so I have learned to use what I call "poor mans accuracy".
>> >
>> >I have something that I can share. I have taken all of the back issues
>> of
>> >the BHP Newsletter and compiled a list of tips etc. that pertain to the
>> Sky
>> >Scout. These are in a "Word" document. When I am working on the rudder
>> for
>> >example, I can use the search function (Find/Replace) and it searches my
>> >document and stops at every mention of the word "rudder" where there
will
>> be
>> >a brief description and the Issue and page number to go to in the
>> >newsletter.
>> >
>> >I did this because I knew that I had seen a "tip" that was applicable,
>> but
>> I
>> >could not find it without looking through all of the back issues. My
>> crude
>> >explanation does not do it justice but I have found it very helpful. If
>> >anyone is interested I can email the Word document.
>> >
>> >Remember that I only noted things that pertained to the Sky Scout, but
>> each
>> >person could add items that may pertain to their project.
>> >
>> >Sincerely,
>> >
>> > Distribution Design Specialist
>> > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>> > *Tel: 404.814.6950
>> > *Fax: 404.814.6968
>> > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Sitka Spruce |
Last year I bought 175 board feet of spruce straight from the mill (at about
$100 ). Properly stacked in my basement it got to about 10% moisture in
about 8 months- started at about 17%. I used spray paint rather than parafin
on the ends. No losses due to checking, 1 board sorta lost to a split (rib
sticks from that one!). All the boards were 16 and 18' 1" and 2" thick.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Stockberger
Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sitka Spruce
>Russell:
>
>Some thoughts on drying wood.
>
>I think you are doing most everything right but your timeline may be too
>short.
>
>Conventional wisdom among woodworkers is that it takes 1 year for each
>inch of thickness to reduce moisture from a nominal 35% down to around
>15% which is the about the best you can do un an unheated space.
>
>In order to get the wood down to 12% you will probably need to keep the
>lumber in a heated space for around 6 months. On the other hand, maybe
>15% is OK for something that will be stored outside or in an unheated
>space.
>What we are after is stability, we don't want the moisture content to
>change
>too much after we build the plane to minimize dimensional changes and
>internal stress.
>
>You want to have good circulation around the stickered pile, look at the
>way you have it stacked to make sure you are getting good circulation
>around the wet wood.
>
>Stack some scrap lumber on top of the pile, the extra weight will help
>prevent twisting and warping.
>
>Randy Stockberger
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:17 AM
>Subject: Sitka Spruce
>
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I recently purchased some rough-cut Sitka spruce from a lumber mill in
>> Canada. It supposedly meets the mil spec (it has beautiful straight
>grain)
>> but is not yet fully dried. My information says that I should try to
>get it
>> to 12% moisture content. A couple of the boards are 20' x 8" x 2".
>Others
>> are 16' long. I also have some Douglas fur and Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
>>
>> I have carefully stacked them with perfectly aligned 1" "stickers"
>(spaced
>> every 24") between the boards. I have two stacks side-by-side. I put
>some
>> vertical boards along the sides (scrap pine) to keep the good boards
>from
>> warping while they dry. I sealed the ends with paraffin.
>>
>> I bought a Humidifier and a moisture content meter (pinless). I have
>a
>> humidity gauge which tells me that the relative humidity in my shop is
>now
>> at about 75% (I live in Atlanta, GA). The current moisture content of
>the
>> wood averages 15 to 17%.
>>
>> I plan to slowly drop the relative humidity (over the next 3 to 4
>months) in
>> my shop to a point that brings the wood down to the 12%.
>>
>> Am I going about this correctly? Does anyone have any
>> suggestions/experience along these lines?
>>
>> If I am successful, I am open to ideas for an all wood airplane once
>my Sky
>> Scout is finished.
>>
>> I can supply information regarding sources for all of the above if
>anyone is
>> interested.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Distribution Design Specialist
>> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>> *Tel: 404.814.6950
>> *Fax: 404.814.6968
>> * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
John wrote:
<>
AHMEN!
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
John wrote:
Would you please consider deleting
most of the
content of the e-mail whenyou respond to a
mailing?
AHMEN!
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
Unsubscribe please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan James <MADjames(at)theknapp.freeserve.co.uk> |
Unsubscribe for now
Unsubscribe for
now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I have at last finished my spoke wheel hubs, ,,a little different than the
piet type, as mine are for 1.250 in. axles, and 36 holes for spokes.
.125 Flanges are drilled stright thru for .160 +.003-.000 and as yet not
countersunk.
I would like to cross the spokes twice for strength. I'm wondering if any
other fellows crossed their spokes, and did they angle the countersink hole
in the hubs to fit the hub to spoke to rim angle ? Or did you just bore
stright thru ?
I have written buchanan's twice now by e-mail....no answer !
Also is crossing the spokes necessary ? I'm told that an un crossed hub is a
very weak set up...
I also notice from some buchanan's litature Earl gave to me, that they sell
a ball end spoke, did you fellows use the ball end type rather than angle
the hole ?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
If you have ever seen a pic of Howard Henderson's 444 HH , I think
it's still posted at the BPA web site. You'll notice that the spokes are
uncrossed.I've been told that this is strong enough if your not using
brakes. But braking forces require crossed spokes.
Ted.T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
A couple pics of that plane here too:
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/444mh.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/444mh2.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/444mh-spokes.jpg
Richard
--- Theodore Trevorrow wrote:
> If you have ever seen a pic of Howard Henderson's 444 HH , I think
> it's still posted at the BPA web site. You'll notice that the spokes
> are
> uncrossed.I've been told that this is strong enough if your not using
> brakes. But braking forces require crossed spokes.
>
> Ted.T
>
>
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/
____
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
Bob;
I know this will stir the dust up but I was told awhile back that the
crossed spokes on cycles were to absorb the wild braking they sometimes get
on the race track and the street too. Think about it, the brakes we use on
our crates will barely hold the plane for a runup and if you had stronger
brakes, you would wind up on your nose! 9ga. spokes are quite heavy and are
overkill unless you are talking about something the size of a Standard or
Jenny meaning weight. The current construction of wheels we use are
extremely strong and the plane or especially landing gear will diffickle
around the wire wheels.........
All the holes in the flanges that I have seen have been perp, not angled.
How did you come up with them being angled?
Bucnanan's will talk to you only if you are buying something from them.
That is an IMPRESSION I got from working with them previously.........
Bob, this angle thing bothers me a bit....talk to me about that, OK? Off
line e-mail would be better so we don't clog the channel here.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 1:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spoke wheels
>I have at last finished my spoke wheel hubs, ,,a little different than the
>piet type, as mine are for 1.250 in. axles, and 36 holes for spokes.
>
>.125 Flanges are drilled stright thru for .160 +.003-.000 and as yet not
>countersunk.
>
>I would like to cross the spokes twice for strength. I'm wondering if any
>other fellows crossed their spokes, and did they angle the countersink
hole
>in the hubs to fit the hub to spoke to rim angle ? Or did you just bore
>stright thru ?
>
>I have written buchanan's twice now by e-mail....no answer !
>
>Also is crossing the spokes necessary ? I'm told that an un crossed hub is
a
>very weak set up...
>
>I also notice from some buchanan's litature Earl gave to me, that they sell
>a ball end spoke, did you fellows use the ball end type rather than angle
>the hole ?
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: spoke wheels |
I'm told that streight spokes were used in the early days without brakes. I
made my hubs from 4130 tubing and plate. Then fit ( right out of the
pakage) Harley spokes, with a rim for an 18" tire ( 21" o.d.) to match
Pietenpol original prints. I'm still working on fitting brakes, but the
complete wheel less brakes and rubber is 8lbs. each
pics on
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehub1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel2.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel3.jpg
white hub is just temporary PVC pipe bushing inserted to true wheel on the
axle.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 1:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spoke wheels
>I have at last finished my spoke wheel hubs, ,,a little different than the
>piet type, as mine are for 1.250 in. axles, and 36 holes for spokes.
>
>.125 Flanges are drilled stright thru for .160 +.003-.000 and as yet not
>countersunk.
>
>I would like to cross the spokes twice for strength. I'm wondering if any
>other fellows crossed their spokes, and did they angle the countersink
hole
>in the hubs to fit the hub to spoke to rim angle ? Or did you just bore
>stright thru ?
>
>I have written buchanan's twice now by e-mail....no answer !
>
>Also is crossing the spokes necessary ? I'm told that an un crossed hub is
a
>very weak set up...
>
>I also notice from some buchanan's litature Earl gave to me, that they sell
>a ball end spoke, did you fellows use the ball end type rather than angle
>the hole ?
>
>Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Unsubscribe please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DONALD SOTTA <dsotta(at)ckt.net> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KIDGONZO(at)aol.com |
Please unsubscribe me at this time, thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
Hello,
I am new to the list and a new builder of the Air Camper. I was at
Oshkosh, and talked to someone there woh had a Pietenpol, and although I
was always interested in building one, I got hooked after seeing one
face to face. My brother and I are planning on building one as our
first project. He's started a project before, and so have I, but the
Pietenpol looks more realistic as far as something that we could
actually complete. He bought the 1931 and 1932 Flying and glider
manuals, and looking throught them, we've found a few questions on some
dimensions that maybe someone would be willing to help out with.
First, on the fuselage, the overall dimension of 13'-5" is given, but if
the bottom dimensions of the longeron is added up it is a 1/4"
different. Then if the other views are added up they actually equal
13'-5 1/2". Which is correct? Or am I missing something here???
Another question is on the wing ribs. If you lay them out per the plans
in the manual, the 1931 and 1932 plans don't match on a few dimensions,
and also, very near to the center of the rib, there is a dimension of 5
7/16" given. Wehn this is laid out, it actually gives the arifoil a
1/4" dip at that point.
These questions are hopefully not to stupid and I realize that most of
you have already gotten into the ntty gritty and have done some building
of you planes already. I would appreciate any advice with these
questions though, and I,m sure as we continue to get into this, we'll
have more. Thanks
Tom Brant
Hello,
I am new to the list and a new
builder of the
Air Camper. I was at Oshkosh, and talked to someone there woh had
a
Pietenpol, and although I was always interested in building one, I got
hooked
after seeing one face to face. My brother and I are planning on
building
one as our first project. He's started a project before, and so
have I,
but the Pietenpol looks more realistic as far as something that we could
actually complete. He bought the 1931 and 1932 Flying and glider
manuals,
and looking throught them, we've found a few questions on some
dimensions that
maybe someone would be willing to help out with.
First, on the fuselage, the overall
dimension of
13'-5 is given, but if the bottom dimensions of the longeron is
added up
it is a 1/4 different. Then if the other views are added up
they
actually equal 13'-5 1/2. Which is correct? Or am I
missing
something here??? Another question is on the wing ribs. If
you lay
them out per the plans in the manual, the 1931 and 1932 plans don't
match on a
few dimensions, and also, very near to the center of the rib, there is a
dimension of 5 7/16 given. Wehn this is laid out, it
actually gives
the arifoil a 1/4 dip at that point.
These questions are hopefully not to
stupid and
I realize that most of you have already gotten into the ntty gritty and
have
done some building of you planes already. I would appreciate any
advice
with these questions though, and I,m sure as we continue to get into
this, we'll
have more. Thanks
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
Tom;
Some of the Air Camper builders on this list can help you as I think I
have seen references to these items before. I would try to help but I
have a Scout, a single seat version.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 4:08 PM
Subject: New Guy
Hello,
I am new to the list and a new builder of the Air Camper. I was at
Oshkosh, and talked to someone there woh had a Pietenpol, and although I
was always interested in building one, I got hooked after seeing one
face to face. My brother and I are planning on building one as our
first project. He's started a project before, and so have I, but the
Pietenpol looks more realistic as far as something that we could
actually complete. He bought the 1931 and 1932 Flying and glider
manuals, and looking throught them, we've found a few questions on some
dimensions that maybe someone would be willing to help out with.
First, on the fuselage, the overall dimension of 13'-5" is given,
but if the bottom dimensions of the longeron is added up it is a 1/4"
different. Then if the other views are added up they actually equal
13'-5 1/2". Which is correct? Or am I missing something here???
Another question is on the wing ribs. If you lay them out per the plans
in the manual, the 1931 and 1932 plans don't match on a few dimensions,
and also, very near to the center of the rib, there is a dimension of 5
7/16" given. Wehn this is laid out, it actually gives the arifoil a
1/4" dip at that point.
These questions are hopefully not to stupid and I realize that most
of you have already gotten into the ntty gritty and have done some
building of you planes already. I would appreciate any advice with
these questions though, and I,m sure as we continue to get into this,
we'll have more. Thanks
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Any suggestions out there on how to keep jigs from warping? My rib jig has a
tendency to warp even though I have edged it with metal L-brackets. I can
clamp it to my work bench while I make the ribs but any suggestions would be
welcome.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Model T water pump on Model A Ford block........ |
Piet List;
This is for anyone interested in adapting a Model T water pump to a
Model A block. I have a note here for John McNarry and one other fella
that made mention of it. John, the T pump does indeed bolt right onto
the A block. It uses the same gasket too. (Henry's Interchange System?).
It does interfere with the oil filler tube.........
I have a choice of using the above or a side mounted washing machine
pump because the radiator I had built for my Scout is too deep (front to
back). That is because I had the radiator built big enough to handle 30%
more capacity than a stock "A" radiator. I did that because I intend to
install a stock looking but "souped up" A or B engine down the road,
hence the need for more radiator area early on and about the only
consistant problem with Model "A"'s seems to be overheating when used in
aeroplanes. I am told that by numerous old Ford Gents. It has to do with
the position of the stock water pump being up where it is on top of the
head when in the car and the cruising RPM being "high" when used in a
plane. Can anyone tell me what the "cruising" RPM is in a stock "A" auto
at 55 mph highway speed?
I choose the "T" pump instead of the washing machine deal solely
because it looks better. It can be hid under the cowling so the cowling
fit on that side is much cleaner and simpler. It bolts onto the block in
the normal spot and induces the liquid stuff into the side of the block
avoiding "steam cavation" of the pump in the stock location. The same
aluminum plate that becomes the "rear" engine cover plate is extended
out a bit to hold the other end of the tube shaped "T" water pump. This
"steam cavation" issue seems logical to me and I thought I read of it
from someone on this list, no? I also heard of it from the S.O.S.S.
racing gang as well. That Magazine is where I saw this "improved" after
market tubular racing "T" pump advertised. I also have pictures of a
Scout (Broadhead?) with a "stock" "T" pump on the side as well. Seems to
me that is what got my attention to start with.
Chad Wille (St. Croix propellor maker) built a georgeous Scout powered
with a Model "C" (his designation) and used NO water pump at all, just
the thermo-sypthon "system". Sorry Chad, I don't trust that one! He
reports in the 40 some hours he flew it prior to it going into a Museum,
it never had a hot water problem................ The Model "C" issue
always starts a fight......Chad's came from an original outdoor stand
alone power unit used in mining, I think? He hales from Oregon, now
lives in Iowa, flies a Piet he built 25 years ago, makes props and Piet
kits and has built 3 of them, I think.
John, the engine man, McNarry, ever heard of this Ford Model "C"
contraversy? I have had a few people say they existed but Grant Maclaren
and the A gang's research says no, that came from a "C" casted into the
head of a "B" engine. Chad's "C" had a few differences too such as
automatic distributor advance and so on.........
Earl Myers
Piet List;
This is for anyone interested
in adapting
a Model T water pump to a Model A block. I have a note here for John
McNarry and
one other fella that made mention of it. John, the T pump does
indeed bolt
right onto the A block. It uses the same gasket too. (Henry's
Interchange
System?). It does interfere with the oil filler
tube.........
I have a choice of using the
above or a
side mounted washing machine pump because the radiator I had built for
my Scout
is too deep (front to back). That is because I had the radiator built
big enough
to handle 30% more capacity than a stock A radiator. I did
that
because I intend to install a stock looking but souped up A
or B
engine down the road, hence the need for more radiator area early on and
about
the only consistant problem with Model A's seems to be
overheating
when used in aeroplanes. I am told that by numerous old Ford Gents. It
has to do
with the position of the stock water pump being up where it is on top of
the
head when in the car and the cruising RPM being high when
used in a
plane. Can anyone tell me what the cruising RPM is in a
stock
A auto at 55 mph highway speed?
I choose the T
pump instead
of the washing machine deal solely because it looks better. It can be
hid under
the cowling so the cowling fit on that side is much cleaner and simpler.
It
bolts onto the block in the normal spot and induces the liquid stuff
into the
side of the block avoiding steam cavation of the pump in the
stock
location. The same aluminum plate that becomes the rear
engine cover
plate is extended out a bit to hold the other end of the tube shaped
T water pump. This steam cavation issue seems
logical to
me and I thought I read of it from someone on this list, no? I also
heard of it
from the S.O.S.S. racing gang as well. That Magazine is where I saw this
improved after market tubular racing T pump
advertised.
I also have pictures of a Scout (Broadhead?) with a stock
T pump on the side as well. Seems to me that is what got my
attention to start with.
Chad Wille (St. Croix
propellor maker)
built a georgeous Scout powered with a Model C (his
designation) and
used NO water pump at all, just the thermo-sypthon system.
Sorry
Chad, I don't trust that one! He reports in the 40 some hours he flew it
prior
to it going into a Museum, it never had a hot water
problem................ The Model C issue always starts a
fight......Chad's came from an original outdoor stand alone power
unit
used in mining, I think? He hales from Oregon, now lives in Iowa, flies
a Piet
he built 25 years ago, makes props and Piet kits and has built 3 of
them, I
think.
John, the engine man,
McNarry, ever heard
of this Ford Model C contraversy? I have had a few people
say they
existed but Grant Maclaren and the A gang's research says no, that came
from a
C casted into the head of a B engine. Chad's
C had a few differences too such as automatic distributor
advance
and so on.........
Earl
Myers
________________________________________________________________________________
I used double thick particle board for my rib jigs. Never noticed any
warping but then I did the ribs right off on each of my planes. Same for the
Wright "B" ribs, flybaby, Dormoy some on a Longster..................
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com <TomTravis(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 4:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Guy
>Any suggestions out there on how to keep jigs from warping? My rib jig has
a
>tendency to warp even though I have edged it with metal L-brackets. I can
>clamp it to my work bench while I make the ribs but any suggestions would
be
>welcome.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
Thanks for the suggestion! My wife thinks that I spend all my day
reading messages about Piets.
This week end, I met a lovely family from Winnepeg. Their daughter and
out youngest daughter were in a wedding in Chicago in June. The bride and
goom had a series of receptions in Lincoln, Nebraska for their friends who
did not make the trip to
Chicago. The husband is a real Sherlock Holmes buff,, License SH 220B! The
daughter who was in thew edding lives in Kansas City. The other daughter is a
2nd grade teacher in Winnepeg. I told her about our e mail relationship, and
she said the museum is a great place to take children on a field trip.
Keep em flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FordPiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model T water pump on Model A Ford block........ |
Earl,
In reply to your question of how many RPMs a Model A Ford engine turns at 55
mph -- According to page 144 "Model A Miseries and Cures" 55 mph would be
2357 rpms. Note, they didn't mention if 1928-29 or 1930-31 wheels, as the
28-29 wheel and tire
is a little taller (21" versus 19"). One or both of the Model A clubs
published a great chart showing the different engine speeds versus road speed
based on tire size and rear end ratio. I never cruised my Ford faster than
45-47 mph until I installed an overdrive. The same book shows 45 mph would
be 1928 rpms. The A engine will do that for year after year.
Concerning the "Model C" engine question -- even the Model A Ford bulletin
boards send you to Grant's excellent explanation of why Ford never called any
of his 4 cylinder engines a Model C. That being said, there are still lots
of folks who call a 1932 to 34 Ford 4 cylinder with a counter balanced crank
a Model C. Page 294 and 295 of the book "Henry's Lady," the older 1972
edition calls it that. I don't know if the later editions correct that or
not. For doing lots of driving, the counterbalanced crank is sought after
for smoothness. It and the "B" crank both have slightly larger bearing
surfaces than the "A" crank.
I don't really care what they call it -- I was willing to pay a little more
for the
counterbalanced crank engine for my car to drive daily (not for show).
However, I haven't been reading this forum long enough to see if there is a
consensus on whether the Model A, B, or a counterbalance crank is better in
the airplane application. The counterbalanced crank adds weight -- but I
don't know if the reduction in vibration is worth the extra weight. Hope
that helps and good luck on your Piet.
Hap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model T water pump on Model A Ford block........ |
Earl, the following is taken fron the feb 1957 issue of science &
mechanics
speedometer MPH=54 (top), true MPH=55.5, engine RPM-2520..this is from
an article on the 1930 Model A roadster..(the quarter mile was 50MPH in
27.6 secs)
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Earl Myers wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what the "cruising" RPM is in a stock "A" auto at
> 55 mph highway speed?
Earl, the following is taken fron the feb 1957 issue of science mechanics
speedometer MPH=54 (top), true MPH=55.5, engine RPM-2520..this is from
an article on the 1930 Model A roadster..(the quarter mile was 50MPH in
27.6 secs)
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Earl Myers wrote:
Can anyone
tell me what the "cruising" RPM is in a stock "A" auto at 55 mph highway
speed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model T water pump on Model A Ford block........ |
> Concerning the "Model C" engine question -- even the Model A Ford bulletin
> boards send you to Grant's excellent explanation of why Ford never called
> any
> of his 4 cylinder engines a Model C. That being said, there are still
lots
> of folks who call a 1932 to 34 Ford 4 cylinder with a counter balanced
crank
>
> a Model C. Page 294 and 295 of the book "Henry's Lady," the older 1972
> edition calls it that. I don't know if the later editions correct that or
> not. For doing lots of driving, the counterbalanced crank is sought after
> for smoothness. It and the "B" crank both have slightly larger bearing
> surfaces than the "A" crank.
In my Dec 1987 Edition on page 294
"With the introduction of the 1933 models, Ford announced the model C engine.
Picture of a model C engine in a Model "A"
The letter C is cast into the head between cylinders 2 & 3.
Picture showing a Model C engine with the water pump now mounted with three
bolts rather than four. Also a blanking plate over the fuel pump mount in the
picture.
I've had two model "A"s but now all I have is a large stack of books.
Some day I will find another one and fall in Love with it.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seals |
Does anyone have a quick fix for the aileron gap to seal it?
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
Does anyone have a quick fix for the aileron gap to
seal
it?
CunninghamDes Moines, Iowa (515)
237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seals |
Haven't used it on a Piet but surgical tape has worked fine for me on other aircraft.
Regards,
Leo
--
On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:49:51 Copinfo wrote:
>Does anyone have a quick fix for the aileron gap to seal it?
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
There's a detailed rib test at Decosta's site.
Myself i just glued fake spars 3' in length
to test rib, (the rib had been accidently
damaged) I then invered the test rib and
spread the fake spars between two saw
horses. Then I proceded to add weight
spreading the weight evenly accross the length
of the test rib untill 533 lbs. had been
loaded, running out of barbells then i
moved all the weight to the front spar
and 300 lbs on the leading edge 200 lbs'
6 inches aft of front spar. I then moved
all the weight to the rear spar and was amazed.
The test rib was held rigid at spar
glue points only and had a hair line
fracture in the top cap strip and was missing
some gussets on one side. yet it probably
would of held 900 lb's. If the wood
i'm using is of good quality I don't
worry about the strength of the ribs
this was a 23012 airfoil like a Taylor Craft
.
russel
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 6:19 AM
> Good a.m.,
>
> I don't remember the old boy's name either. I do remember him explaining
> the ship is his own design, not a Roger Mann ship.
>
> JMG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Closer Look
>
>
> >Mike,
> >
> >Are you referring to the gentleman at Brodhead with the ultralight Piet
> >wanna-be and rib test? If so, I didn't catch his name, but I'm pretty
> >sure it wasn't Roger Mann unless he has put on a bit of weight. And his
> >plane was not one of Roger Mann's Ultra Piet's unless it had been very
> >much modified. His test jig basically mounted a rib upside down from
> >some stub front and rear spars, then hung weights fairly evenly spaced
> >along the rib to simulate a distributed air load. I think Wayne Ison
> >(Mini Max designer) did something very similar. You could do the same
> >thing, build identical ribs out of spruce and cedar and load them to
> >failure using the same amount of weight and distribution on each rib.
> >At least that would give you a direct comparison between the two
> >different woods for this application. Maybe one of the group has some
> >more info on his test jig.
> >
> >Does Western Red Cedar have any natural oils present that would inhibit
> >good glue joints?
> >
> >Mike List
> >
> >
> >
> >mike cushway wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anybody have the name or e-mail of the guy with the Pietenpol
> >> mini-lookalike?
> >> I wish I had taken a closer look at the rib testing literature that he
> >> had posted next to the
> >> plane. It looked fairly detailed and complete. I would like to do some
> >> testing on a rib
> >> built up with Western Red Cedar. A while back someone posted some info.
> >> on rib testing,
> >> can you repost? I am working with Forest Products Laboratories in
> >> Madison, Wi. to
> >> establish some comparative mechanical properties of Sitka vs. Western
> >> Red Cedar.
> >> A 4x4x8ft. clear old growth Western Red Cedar "post" that meets all
spar
> >> pre-requisites runs
> >> $20. Two will produce (90) 8ft. 1/4x1/2 cap strips. Incentive enough
for
> >> me!
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Tube Fuselage |
Clay Spurgeon wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Was wondering if anyone has good info on the pros & cons of wood vs.
> steel tube fuselage. Have read in the various BPAN literature of
> weight savings of around 20 lbs - with all the emphasis on weight
> reduction this sounds like a compelling reason to go this way, but
> apparently very few do - would appreciate any feedback!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Clay Spurgeon
I can romance wood!
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Fay <jefay(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Guy ; rib layout |
also, very near to the center of the
> rib, there is a dimension of 5 7/16" given. Wehn
> this is laid out, it actually gives the arifoil a
> 1/4" dip at that point.
Tom,
I can't say anything about the fuselage for sure, because I am just
getting ready to build mine, but
I do remember that on the rib there was one dimension that seemed to be
obviously off. Just ignore it and draw in the curve to complete the
natural shape of the wing.
John in Peoria
____
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Tube Fuselage |
Hello Clay
I am building a steel tube fuselage. It is taking much longer to build than
the wood. There is only a "stick" dawning for plans, no real details.
Fitting for rectangular wood do not work on round tube, you have to design
your own. The steel tube fuselage has different dimensions, nothing fits,
you can not just build from plans.
Mike Madrid
>Clay Spurgeon wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Was wondering if anyone has good info on the pros & cons of wood vs.
>> steel tube fuselage. Have read in the various BPAN literature of
>> weight savings of around 20 lbs - with all the emphasis on weight
>> reduction this sounds like a compelling reason to go this way, but
>> apparently very few do - would appreciate any feedback!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Clay Spurgeon
>
>I can romance wood!
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Hi Orville
I have spent most of the summer at the CATPM. We have attained a
"Special theme Museum" status. This places us in a good position to aquire
grants etc., towards improving the place. I have just about completed a
major move of our inventory from on spot to another to allow engineering
people access to the roof trusses. We hope to keep the WW11 hanger as close
to original in appearance as possible.
Not much done on my Piet as the Museum takes up so much time. Did get
some Tiger Moth and Harvard flight time in.
It is nice to hear that so many nice people get around in this world.
Perhaps some day I may meet you. I have met quite a few teachers who are
discovering the museum and have talked about incorporating it into thier
lesson plans. One teacher was pariculailly taken by the structures of the
aircraft. She teaches sciences to grade 5. What a wonderful time in life.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
Dear Oil Can Bob.......I was told that crossed spokes are to be
used with brakes, straight for no brakes and the old fashioned look.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
unsubscribe please
(hopefully posting this to the group will work -- have
lost other instructions)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seals |
Thanks for the advice. I used duct tape and what a difference. I can't
believe it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Powning <leo_powning@my-Deja.com>
Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 8:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Gap Seals
>Haven't used it on a Piet but surgical tape has worked fine for me on other
aircraft.
>Regards,
>Leo
>--
>
>On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:49:51 Copinfo wrote:
>>Does anyone have a quick fix for the aileron gap to seal it?
>>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>>Tim Cunningham
>>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>>
>
>
>--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seals |
if duct tape or WD40 can't fix it........IT'S broke........
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel tubing fuselages |
To Clay,
My Piet has a wooden fuselage which has given good service for
many (nearly 29) years, so there isn't much wrong with the wood
structure, provided it is hangared when not flying and is well-pro-
tected with proper coatings together with good drainage and ven-
tilation.
During the mid 1970's, I started a second Pietenpol with the hope
that I could get at least one of my two teenage sons interested in
building it. I welded up a steel tube fuselage using the truss shown
in the plans, and the only changes were the substitution of larger
tubing diameters in the forward fuselage and cockpit areas. The
resulting truss was very light and strong, but if I were to build
another
I would design a new truss using the member placement of the wood
fuselage (Pratt style truss) rather than the Warren style of the steel
tubing version in the plans. Although slightly heavier, the Pratt truss
keeps the longeron length shorter between joint clusters and allows
one to pretty well duplicate the fitting locations ot the wooden fuse-
lage.
I had the fuselage on the gear, complete with engine and tail feathers
(also of steel tubing), when I sold the project because (1) my boys
were interested in other things, and (2) I already had a Pietenpol. The
fellow who bought it finished it and it flew very well. Apparently,
there
was water damage to the wings while they were removed and stored
during a period of inactivity. He has not had the time to make the
repairs
and the a/c is still in storage (dry, I hope).
In summary, a steel tubing fuselage could be made lighter than a wooden
equivalent, but by the time one adds seat support structure, attachment
clips for fairings, etc., a lot of time will be used up and some weight
added.
The stark simplicity of the bare truss disappears once all this stuff is
in place.
Nevertheless, if I were to build another Pietenpol I would go the steel
tube
fuselage route using what I have learned over the years to keep it
simple and
light. I definitely would not recommend making the tail feathers of
steel tub-
ing even though my version was successful; it is, in my view, impossible
to
make a steel tubing empennage as light and efficient as the wooden one
shown in the plans.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen
To Clay,
My Piet has a wooden fuselage which
has given
good service for
many (nearly 29) years, so there
isn't much
wrong with the wood
structure, provided it is hangared
when not
flying and is well-pro-
tected with proper coatings together
with good
drainage and ven-
tilation.
During the mid 1970's, I started a
second
Pietenpol with the hope
that I could get at least one of my
two teenage
sons interested in
building it. I welded up a steel
tube fuselage
using the truss shown
in the plans, and the only changes
were the
substitution of larger
tubing diameters in the forward
fuselage and
cockpit areas. The
resulting truss was very light and
strong, but
if I were to build another
I would design a new truss using the
member
placement of the wood
fuselage (Pratt style truss) rather
than the
Warren style of the steel
tubing version in the plans.
Although slightly
heavier, the Pratt truss
keeps the longeron length shorter
between joint
clusters and allows
one to pretty well duplicate the
fitting
locations ot the wooden fuse-
lage.
I had the fuselage on the gear,
complete with
engine and tail feathers
(also of steel tubing), when I sold
the project
because (1) my boys
were interested in other things, and
(2) I
already had a Pietenpol. The
fellow who bought it finished it and
it flew
very well. Apparently, there
was water damage to the wings while
they were
removed and stored
during a period of inactivity. He has not had the
time to make
the repairs
and the a/c is still in storage (dry, I
hope).
In summary, a steel tubing fuselage could be made
lighter than
a wooden
equivalent, but by the time one adds seat support
structure,
attachment
clips for fairings, etc., a
lot of time
will be used up and some weight added.
The stark simplicity of the bare truss disappears
once all
this stuff is in place.
Nevertheless, if I were to build another Pietenpol I
would go
the steel tube
fuselage route using what I have learned over the
years to
keep it simple and
light. I definitely would not recommend making the
tail
feathers of steel tub-
ing even though my version was successful; it is, in
my view,
impossible to
make a steel tubing empennage as light and efficient
as the
wooden one
shown in the plans.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Steel tubing fuselages |
Graham
It is always a pleasure to read your e-mails to the group.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Sincerely
John McNarry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Say goodbye....... |
to the BPAN newsletter after December this year due to the fact
that after 10 years Grant MacLaren is hanging up his cleats and will
be doing the web page in the future, but not the newsletter.
There is a real need for the newsletter to continue though for those
who do not have computer or net access....which sounds like alot of
folks from what I'm told. (even those of us on computers LOVE getting the
newsletter, eh ??)
Grant will forward all his mailing lists, resources to whoever seriously
picks up the torch. The new editor DOES NOT have to produce anything
as professional as we have seen from Grant though. DON' T let this
scare you off. The previous newsletter was typed, copied, and mailed.
It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Think about it........and Thanks for
reading !
Mike C.
Contact: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Dear John,
Toledo's EAA Chapter 582 is being encouraged by the local Port Authority
to establish an aviation museum and library. Do you have any suggestions
you might like to share towards initial organization that would also
improve our ability to apply for grants. We have had IRS 501c3 non-profit
status for three years now, including Ohio non-profit designation. hope to
hear from you.
Sincerely,
Randall Reihing
>Hi Orville
> I have spent most of the summer at the CATPM. We have attained a
>"Special theme Museum" status. This places us in a good position to aquire
>grants etc., towards improving the place. I have just about completed a
>major move of our inventory from on spot to another to allow engineering
>people access to the roof trusses. We hope to keep the WW11 hanger as close
>to original in appearance as possible.
> Not much done on my Piet as the Museum takes up so much time. Did get
>some Tiger Moth and Harvard flight time in.
>
>It is nice to hear that so many nice people get around in this world.
>Perhaps some day I may meet you. I have met quite a few teachers who are
>discovering the museum and have talked about incorporating it into thier
>lesson plans. One teacher was pariculailly taken by the structures of the
>aircraft. She teaches sciences to grade 5. What a wonderful time in life.
>
>John
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Say goodbye....... |
Mike C. I nominate you, heck I'd even send you a years worth of flying
stories. I'm sure you've thought of this however as I have. I have faith
in this community, and hope that someone will pick up where Grant left off.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Michael D Cuy
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 8:34 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Say goodbye.......
>
>
> to the BPAN newsletter after December this year due to the fact
> that after 10 years Grant MacLaren is hanging up his cleats and will
> be doing the web page in the future, but not the newsletter.
> There is a real need for the newsletter to continue though for those
> who do not have computer or net access....which sounds like alot of
> folks from what I'm told. (even those of us on computers
> LOVE getting the
> newsletter, eh ??)
> Grant will forward all his mailing lists, resources to
> whoever seriously
> picks up the torch. The new editor DOES NOT have to produce anything
> as professional as we have seen from Grant though. DON' T let this
> scare you off. The previous newsletter was typed, copied, and mailed.
> It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Think about
> it........and Thanks for
> reading !
>
> Mike C.
>
> Contact: GMacLaren(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Say goodbye....... |
> > Grant will forward all his mailing lists, resources to
> > whoever seriously
> > picks up the torch. The new editor DOES NOT have to produce anything
> > as professional as we have seen from Grant though. DON' T let this
> > scare you off. The previous newsletter was typed, copied, and mailed.
> > It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Think about
> > it........and Thanks for
> > reading !
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
I just rejoined this list after being off for a very few weeks. Did not know
Grant was hanging up his typing keys.
Newsletters are sometimes fun to do when you have stuff to put in them, I did
one for a club I started for 3 years and mailed out to 47 people. I have
never seen Grants Newsletter but I understand it was good. Out of the 47
mpeople we had in the club I only had one person who said she could do
better, Every chance she got. So I out of courtesy turned it over to her. She
did it for 6 months and then quit.
Thanks Grant 10 years is a long time to do anything.
Gordon
RW1 UL Piet
Mohawk MK IV
Real Piet someday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: Say goodbye....... |
>Mike C. I nominate you, heck I'd even send you a years worth of flying
>stories. I'm sure you've thought of this however as I have. I have faith
>in this community, and hope that someone will pick up where Grant left off.
>
Steve ! Thanks !! I nominate you too !! Actually I have absolutely no
desire to take up that responsibility at all. If I were retired I'd
probably think
about it.
PS- for those who couldn't make it to Osh or Brodhead, this STeve E guy and
Duane W. along with everyone else were just a sheer joy to meet and talk with.
It is so cool to put a face and handshake next to an e-mail name and
provider !!
PSS- On the way to OSH from Hartford, Steve E. pulled up with his green Air
Camper about 75 feet off my right wing and just hung there like he was on
a string........I looked again, again.....just couldn't believe the plane
that I'd seen
on the web, in the newsletter, etc. was right there all the way from Utah
next to
me at 3,500 feet over Fon Du Lac airport. It was like a dream. I looked
ahead and
specks of Piets and GN-1's dotted the skies....looked behind and saw a few more
there. Whew, how fun !!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk> |
I have seen a couple of posts about incorrect dimensions etc..
I'm in the process of enlarging the wing rib drawing via CAD. I have
noticed the discrepancies, but they don't bother me, as I think the cap
strips will find their own 'true' way. What does interest me is the
precise location of the ends of the diagonal braces - are these critical?
Should I scale them off the drawing?
Does anyone have details and/or offset dimensions of the leading edge
upright? and the trailing edge?
When I'm done, I'll be happy to make these drawings available to anyone who
can convince me that they've bought a set of plans - hopefully we can
eventually build up a library of CAD details.
Leo
Nottinghamshire
England
leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel tubing fuselages |
Paul Prince in the UK is manufacturing steel fuselages for piets.
Apparently, the original steel fuselage drawing didn't stand up to stress
analysis, and would have been difficult to alter to comply with the JAR/VLA
regs (I think our rules in the UK are more restrictive than in the USA), so
Paul has redesigned it using the latest computerised techniques.
He uses CNC-cut square section to fabricate them, thereby simpifying the
joints.
I understand that they make a lighter aircraft, and also add a little
extra legroom and vision (by lowering the passenger seat and moving the
firewall forward a couple of inches). There is also an access flap to ease
entry into the front cockpit.
Of course there are a lot of other benefits, including extra strength,
4-point harness points, brackets, engine mount points etc. and most
importantly, a build time reduction of, say, 18 months.
The cost in the UK is about 4200 sterling - that gets a fully welded, epoxy
etch-primed, PU topcoated and internally anti corrosion treated fuselage.
It even comes in two bolt together parts to simplify transport and storage.
Incidentally, in the UK, all welding has to be performed by a CAA certified
welder, whether for a homebuilt or otherwise.
With a young family and not a lot of spare time, I think this is the route
I shall be following.
Paul can be reached at:-
Aviation Metalcraft
Unit 28
Enterprise House
King Edward Street
Grimsby
N. E. Lincolnshire
DN31 3JP
England
T +44 1472 360 699
F +44 1472 324 685
And just for the record, I don't work for him - I just appreciate the work
he has put into this.
Leo
Nottinghamshire
England
leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Brodhead pics/videos? |
Richard, I've started plugging in my digital pics to my narrative of my
trip at http://steve.byu.edu but I'd be happy to send them all to you if
you'd like. There are about 100 pics. some are pretty good. I'll put them
on my web space there, feel free to move them around if you'd like.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Richard DeCosta
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 12:51 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Brodhead pics/videos?
>
>
> May be a little early yet, but does anyone have any pictures/videos
> from Brodhead '99? I've got over 3 Gig to fill, and an eager audience!
>
> Richard
> ===
> http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
> ____
> Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Steel tubing fuselages |
I'd say a savings of 18 months is a little bit much. I built my whole
airplane in 2.5 years. I bet I could build the wood fuse in less than a
month of part time work. It only took me two months on my first try. (80
hours) Your mileage may vary.
Steve Eldredge
> Of course there are a lot of other benefits, including extra strength,
> 4-point harness points, brackets, engine mount points etc. and most
> importantly, a build time reduction of, say, 18 months.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying, 3281 miles over
the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples Sunday evening.
I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to finally meet you
after all this time.
Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing Hendersonville, NC.
Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in Michigan!!
Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
That's absolutely incredible Ted!! Congradulations on your trip!
Robert (Very envious) Hensarling
>Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying, 3281 miles over
>the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
>landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples Sunday evening.
>I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to finally meet you
>after all this time.
>
>Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
>padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
>
>Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing Hendersonville, NC.
>
>Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in
Michigan!!
>
>Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
>
>Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
>
>Ted Brousseau
>Naples, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Ted's comment on the importance of seat padding brings up a further point for
discussion. While talking to many of you about your planes at Brodhead,
several comments were made about the angle of the seats being too verticle.
Am I correct in assuming that the seat back is not critical to structural
integrity? Anybody out there done anything to relieve the angle and allow for
a more comfortable seating posture? Captain Buck Nekkid had a great looking
inflatable support system, but I think that his was the same angle as all the
others. Comments?
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Where it was no hotter than Brodhead/Oshkosh!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
WOW!!! we all knew that the Piets were tough,,,but you Piet drivers are in a class
all by yourselves (ironbutts).. kudos to you!
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Ted Brousseau wrote:
> Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying, 3281 miles over
> the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
> landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples Sunday evening.
> I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to finally meet you
> after all this time.
>
> Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
> padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
>
> Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing Hendersonville, NC.
>
> Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in Michigan!!
>
> Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
>
> Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
>
> Ted Brousseau
> Naples, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
I agree with these comments. I just put my seat in (partially) and found it very
uncomfortable. It is too late for any design changes at this point for me.
My only options are to install some sort of padding or to design and install
a new seat (molded to my rear and back) and install over the top of the existing
seat. Any comments?
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
> ----------
> From: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com[SMTP:mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 5:56 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>
> Ted's comment on the importance of seat padding brings up a further point for
> discussion. While talking to many of you about your planes at Brodhead,
> several comments were made about the angle of the seats being too verticle.
> Am I correct in assuming that the seat back is not critical to structural
> integrity? Anybody out there done anything to relieve the angle and allow for
> a more comfortable seating posture? Captain Buck Nekkid had a great looking
> inflatable support system, but I think that his was the same angle as all the
> others. Comments?
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
> Where it was no hotter than Brodhead/Oshkosh!!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Ted- You are a wild man......and I think it's GREAT !!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Mike Bell-
What you mention about the seat angle being too verticle is true.
I made up several 'wedges' of poplar in various sizes and clamped them
to the normal seat diagonal fuselage side braces to test and feel the
difference. What a difference. I'd say the bottom of my seat is1.5 to
1.75" forward of plans with those long triangular wedges glued in place.
I ride with no cushions and am very comfortable........although about
2 hours cross country and I'm ready for a break from the wind, sitting,
etc. The angle DOES make a difference.
I made my seat back removable too for inspection, access- even the seat
bottom comes out- but I DID 'frame' in the seat back area with some
1/2"x 1" spruce to retain the 'box' support struture which the seat
normally provides.
The plywood FIREWALL also I think when glued in ties those
four longerons together for strength. PS- The LAST thing I glued in
was the firewall plywood too-- If any of you have not glued your
firewall in place, please do yourself a favor and leave it for last.
You will have excellent access for installing your front seat pedals,
rudder bar, tourqe tube bearing plates, etc. This way you don't have
to go headfirst into the cockpit when installing these items and calling
your wife or children to hold the socket or wrench on the outside.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
GREAT trip Ted!!!
Where did you see the Piet at a garage sale?
Was it sold?
I have a little sister going to college in the Michigan Upper pen.
I would love to get her to go down and buy it and bring it home on her next
trip.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 9:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying, 3281 miles over
>the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
>landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples Sunday evening.
>I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to finally meet you
>after all this time.
>
>Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
>padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
>
>Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing Hendersonville, NC.
>
>Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in
Michigan!!
>
>Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
>
>Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
>
>Ted Brousseau
>Naples, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | takeoff distance |
Good a.m., gentlemen,
My Model A powered Piet is going to an airport for assembley in the next
few weeks. One option I have is a public airport with about a 1/4 mile
grass area used by ultra-lites. It is actually much longer but gets
progressively rougher after 1/4 mile or so.
My question: What is the practical strip length necessary for a Ford
powered Piet? Does anyone know if this is adequate?
JMG
Good a.m., gentlemen,
My Model A powered Piet is going to
an airport
for assembley in the next few weeks. One option I have is a public
airport
with about a 1/4 mile grass area used by ultra-lites. It is
actually much
longer but gets progressively rougher after 1/4 mile or so.
My question: What is the
practical strip
length necessary for a Ford powered Piet? Does anyone know if this
is
adequate?
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
What thickness plexiglass did y'all use for windscreens?
JMG
What thickness plexiglass did y'all
use for
windscreens?
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
> What thickness plexiglass did y'all use for windscreens?
>
> JMG
John- I used 1/8" LEXAN. Skip the plexi- it can crack,
split, shatter internally.
Lexan can be drilled, cut with a sabre saw or bandsaw,
filed, bent, (cold), etc. It's more $$ but less headaches.
Mike C.
What thickness plexiglass did
y'all use for windscreens?
JMG
John- I used 1/8 LEXAN. Skip the plexi- it can crack,
split, shatter internally.
Lexan can be drilled, cut with a sabre saw or bandsaw,
filed, bent, (cold), etc. It's more $$ but less headaches.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff distance |
John, I have a 65 Coninental and I need about 400 feet for takeoff. I
can easily clear 100 feet before I get 1000 feet down our runway. My
guess is the Ford should be very similar in performance. I know I would
rather have 1000 feet of grass than 4000 feet of cement. Good luck.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
Found this to be so true after 3 sets of windshields.
Slow learner,
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
-
________________________________________________________________________________
D Cuy
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:45 AM
What thickness plexiglass did y'all use for windscreens?
JMG
John- I used 1/8" LEXAN. Skip the plexi- it can crack,
split, shatter internally.
Lexan can be drilled, cut with a sabre saw or bandsaw,
filed, bent, (cold), etc. It's more $$ but less headaches.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff distance |
John,
What size wood or metal prop do you have?
Mike
Dallas
>>>>
John, I have a 65 Coninental and I need about 400 feet
for takeoff. I can easily clear 100 feet before I get 1000 feet down our
runway. My guess is the Ford should be very similar in performance. I
know I would rather have 1000 feet of grass than 4000 feet of cement.
Good luck.
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff distance |
Mike,
My Ford has a homemade 76*44 oak prop.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: takeoff distance
John,
What size wood or metal prop do you have?
Mike
Dallas
>>>>
John, I have a 65 Coninental and I need about 400 feet for
takeoff. I can easily clear 100 feet before I get 1000 feet down our
runway. My guess is the Ford should be very similar in performance. I
know I would rather have 1000 feet of grass than 4000 feet of cement.
Good luck.
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Wow! That is a long trip. I had tailwinds both ways if you can believe it.
I agree that the piet is the best way to see the country. I only had 47
hours of flying. It was well worth it and I am hoping to get to Broadhead
again. Glad to hear you made it home Ted. It was great meeting you and the
others!
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ted
> Brousseau
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 9:07 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>
>
> Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying,
> 3281 miles over
> the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
> landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples
> Sunday evening.
> I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to
> finally meet you
> after all this time.
>
> Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
> padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
>
> Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing
> Hendersonville, NC.
>
> Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage
> sale in Michigan!!
>
> Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
>
> Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
>
> Ted Brousseau
> Naples, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Have seen one Piet with a sloping seat and Temperfoam to fit a fella about
the size of Capt. Buck Nekkid.......I would think that a seatback and it's
diagonals sloped back to fit better wouldn't have a negative effect on the
structure. As long as that Pratt triangle there doesn't get too acute, what
the hay?
Earl Myers
Sorry I couldn't link up with most of ya's at Oshkosh, couldn't find you?
Too many people amongst the planes.
-----Original Message-----
From: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>Ted's comment on the importance of seat padding brings up a further point
for
>discussion. While talking to many of you about your planes at Brodhead,
>several comments were made about the angle of the seats being too verticle.
>Am I correct in assuming that the seat back is not critical to structural
>integrity? Anybody out there done anything to relieve the angle and allow
for
>a more comfortable seating posture? Captain Buck Nekkid had a great
looking
>inflatable support system, but I think that his was the same angle as all
the
>others. Comments?
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>Where it was no hotter than Brodhead/Oshkosh!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat angle & Brodhead pics... |
How about just using one of those osteopathic back/butt supporters like
you get at the drugstore/walmart, etc? Good for those who have already
built their seat.
Many thanks to Mike List for sending me the video and pics from
Brodhead!! Not linked from my site yet, but heres a direct link to the
pics I scanned:
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-2.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-3.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-4.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-5.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-6.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-7.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-8.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-9.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-10.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-11.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-12.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/brodhead99-13.jpg
Richard
--- Earl Myers wrote:
> Have seen one Piet with a sloping seat and Temperfoam to fit a fella
> about
> the size of Capt. Buck Nekkid.......I would think that a seatback and
> it's
> diagonals sloped back to fit better wouldn't have a negative effect
> on the
> structure. As long as that Pratt triangle there doesn't get too
> acute, what
> the hay?
> Earl Myers
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
John;
The Piet Ford's on warm days seem to use 400-600 feet of roll, one person,
short grass. The rate of climb (memory here) is 200-300' per minute. I
recall that being more "remarkable" than takeoff roll. This was a "normal"
alum head, 76x42 wooden prop, light weight Ford Piet. By warm I mean 82 or
so, little wind. I have only been in the Cont Piets., My size (235#)
blocking the view being more of a problem than takeoff roll. Rate of climb
suffered tho. With the Ford, pick your days, people, wind & Temp and
OBSTRUCTIONS at the end of the runway......Density altitude is a factor as
well.....
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Friday, August 06, 1999 3:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout
>Russell,
>
>Here's what I did re: tires and wheels:
>
>I bought 21" knobby tires and cut the knobs off with a utility knife. Then
>I sanded them smooth with a coarse disk sander on my drill. 8-10 hours per
>tire and lotsa black snot.
>
>I covered mine with fabric. Relatively easy and looks pretty good.
>
>JMG
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 2:18 PM
>Subject: RE: Sky Scout
>
>
>>Earl,
>>
>>Attached is the Piet Newsletter notes that I have taken. Open the
document
>>then hit EDIT and FIND. Then type in a key word such as "Model A" or
>>"wheels". The search will stop at these words and you can see which
>>newsletter is applicable. The drawback is that you will have to have all
>of
>>the back issues for it to be helpful.
>>
>> <>
>>
>>I haven't really compiled all of the mistakes or typos that I have run
>>across in the plans. I think that the best way would be for us to pass
>>around a "Word" document that we could each add to. We could have a Sky
>>Scout and Aircamper document. I'll start with the points that you have
>>made, add my own, then pass it along. What do you think?
>>
>>Now you've made me nervous about the bolt hole spacing. I noticed that
>some
>>fittings would not fit if made per the plans (of course I discovered this
>>after making them--shame on me --or shame on the 70 year old un-corrected
>>plans?). Anyway, if that is the problem then I am ok. However, if the
>>problem is that the original spacing is inadequate to provide the proper
>>strength--then I am in trouble.
>>
>>I had my wheel hubs made per the plans in one of the old newsletters. I
>had
>>the wheels spoked by Buchanon's Motorcycle in California. Next I need 21"
>>tires. I would prefer smooth tread. Do you have any ideas?
>>
>>I would also like to cover the wheels. Should I use fabric or aluminum?
>>
>>Have you had your Model A engine rebuilt yet?
>>
>>Where did you get your radiator?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>> ----------
>>> From: Earl Myers[SMTP:allaire(at)raex.com]
>>> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 12:00 PM
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Subject: Re: Sky Scout
>>>
>>> Russ;
>>> I am about to complete Scout NX899EM per the plans except for the fuse
>>> being widened at the seatback 3". There are numerous glaring errors on
>the
>>> plans. I would be interested in your compilation as I was contacted by
>>> someone in the Hoopman/Pietenpol clan to have these issues changed on
the
>>> drawings. I believe this Gentleman's name was a Mr. Gleason......I have
>>> partial documentation of those changes. Watch the wing/aileron
>>> dimensions!!!! Also, the fuselage fittings need to have more airspace
>>> between the bolt holes especially around the engine mount and cabane
>>> fittings. I am in contact with two guys that have finished Scouts of
>>> excellent quality that are not on the Piet list (both hate computers).
>>> They
>>> have together built DR1's, Sopwith triplanes, other Piets and several
>>> others..........I also get a lot of non-Piet e-mail that comes thru AT&T
>>> from Lucent Tech............not aviation stuff.........I would be
>>> interested
>>> in anything Scout so keep in touch. I have the radiator/wheel /engine
>>> thing
>>> done so can help you there. Enjoy
>>> Earl Myers
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:00 AM
>>> Subject: Sky Scout
>>>
>>>
>>> >Gentlemen,
>>> >
>>> >Since I am not on the way to Broadhead I am viewing the flying clips on
>>> the
>>> >Pietenpol website. Maybe next year I can make it.
>>> >
>>> >I have been building a Sky Scout for a couple of years and am about 50%
>>> >finished with the fuselage. I haven't started the wings yet but the
>tail
>>> >feathers are nearly complete.
>>> >
>>> >I am building per the plans but I think this is somewhat of a misnomer
>>> since
>>> >the plans have many mistakes/typos. Would anyone be interested in
>>> compiling
>>> >a list of these inaccuracies for both the Sky Scout and Aircamper. I
>can
>>> >contribute many for the Sky Scout.
>>> >
>>> >I hope to have the fuse. on the gear soon. Then I can put the ply on
>the
>>> >sides, remount the model A engine (not yet rebuilt), and sit in it in
my
>>> >back yard and make airplane noises. Since I live in a rural community,
>I
>>> >figure I can get away with this for several hours before the men in
>white
>>> >coats show up.
>>> >
>>> >I have many questions, but also many tricks and helpful tips that I
have
>>> >learned along the way if anyone is interested. I do not have any
>>> expensive
>>> >tools so I have learned to use what I call "poor mans accuracy".
>>> >
>>> >I have something that I can share. I have taken all of the back issues
>>> of
>>> >the BHP Newsletter and compiled a list of tips etc. that pertain to the
>>> Sky
>>> >Scout. These are in a "Word" document. When I am working on the
rudder
>>> for
>>> >example, I can use the search function (Find/Replace) and it searches
my
>>> >document and stops at every mention of the word "rudder" where there
>will
>>> be
>>> >a brief description and the Issue and page number to go to in the
>>> >newsletter.
>>> >
>>> >I did this because I knew that I had seen a "tip" that was applicable,
>>> but
>>> I
>>> >could not find it without looking through all of the back issues. My
>>> crude
>>> >explanation does not do it justice but I have found it very helpful.
If
>>> >anyone is interested I can email the Word document.
>>> >
>>> >Remember that I only noted things that pertained to the Sky Scout, but
>>> each
>>> >person could add items that may pertain to their project.
>>> >
>>> >Sincerely,
>>> >
>>> > Distribution Design Specialist
>>> > * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>>> > *Tel: 404.814.6950
>>> > *Fax: 404.814.6968
>>> > * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Engine For Sale |
> I live in central Kansas.(316)241-8094 or email cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com. I
> am asking $200.00 for all. It will need to be pickup or shipped. Thank you.
> Chad
Darn, I live in Calif.
sounds like a good buy to me, I paid 800.00 for a almost restored 31 4dr.
with Briggs body back in 90 complete with engine needing rebuild. While
working at Long Beach Naval Shipyard I worked in x31 and the Babbit section
for two yrs, Babbiting is easy when you learn the tricks. we did bearings
from around 1 1/4" to 42"
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Model A Engine For Sale |
Hello Gordon, that sounds interesting. I will save your email for future
ref. I knew it was a great buy back when I bought it and nothing has
changed. Maby when the kids get a little older I"ll have more time,
money, patience, understanding and money. Did I mention money!?? In
the mean time I will have to settle for dreaming and maby catch a ride
or two from the boys at Benton. Thanks, Cj
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: High Regards
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:06:34 -0400
Group- To all those who spent their vacation time, money, sweat,
and sometimes blood on making this year's 70th Anniversary
gathering so good, we as a group hold you all in high regard.
I personally was totally impressed with Jim Kinsella's last-minute
PUSH to get his Piet inspected, test flown, and up to the great state
of Wisconsin. Jim had a pretty special passenger with him- his son !
Steve Eldredge, Duane Woolsey, Ted Brousseau, and Capt. Buck (aka Randy Bruce)
all flew major, major, cross country flights to join the group.
Mitchel Burns from Brookfield, MO made a wonderful effort to join the group
only to have his heart and landing gear broken after a minor landing
problem at Oshkosh upon arrival- yet talking with him a day later he spoke
with gentle words about how he just was not quick enough on the controls....
and that he'd be trailering his Piet for repairs back home. What an effort and
what class this Mitchel Burns showed all of us.
A pair of Pietenpols showed up at my local airport from Albion NY on
the 25th
of July owned and built by a son-in-law, father-in-law team Mike Troy and
Frenchy.
(I still don't know Frenchy's last name !) Two really sweet Piets both
with Model A's
and wire wheels. We all took off together Monday morning in a three flight
formation.
I flew about 20 min. with them before waving my wings and getting a wave
from them
both and pulling slowly ahead. A while later they had the engine quit on
Mike's A'
with his son John in the front seat. Mike did a good job putting the Piet
down but
just couldn't quite stretch his glide to a clear wheat field. Frenchy put
down his
Piet in the wheat and all were ok. After several days of FAA paperwork and
getting a U-haul, they were back home in NY where they got in the car and
greeted
us on the flightline a few days later. These guys went above and beyond to
try to join
us at Osh/Brodhead and were dashed by a stroke of fate that none of us
would wish
on the other, yet they are ready to fix her up and keep flying. Our hats
are off
to these guys who although were not on the flight line with Piets this
year, they were
there with class.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Gentlemen,
I recently purchased a prop from Beres & Hirsch (sp). I think it is a 72 x
44 although it is not in front of me. My question has more to do with the
construction of the prop. It is made of only three
laminations--Maple--Black Walnut--Maple. It is supposed to be a "Scimitar"
type prop which I think means that it flexes (pitch changes) when power is
added.
Most of the props that I see have several more laminations. Have I created
more grief for myself?
I have attached their web site and email address if anyone is curious. They
seem like knowledgeable guys and say that their props are flying on other
Piets. Their prices are quite reasonable.
http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=Beres+%26+Hirsch+propellers&oq=
&url=http%3A//www.sportflyer.com/props.htm&ti=Aircraft/Aviation+Propeller+Cl
ocks,+Airboat+and+Paraplane+Props+-+Beres+%26amp;+Hirsch+...&top=
props(at)empnet.com
Distribution Design Specialist
* Lucent Technologies, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Engine For Sale |
Money?? what is that.
After retireing I have plenty of time to dream, my project list is much
longer than my bank account. When I was working I had money and no time to
build anything.
I don't have the Model "A" anymore, like I said no time to work on it then
and a guy down the street told a friend and all of a sudden I get offered
1200.00 for my 800.00 purchase. I sell it. But I have kept my stack of
Model "A" rebuilding books and all the parts catalogs just in case I find
another one cheap around here.
Keep the dream alive and someday you will return back to the things you want.
The guy I bought the A from had an insurance bill he could not pay.
When I was 16 I bought a Model "A" 29 or 30 Coupe, stock with solid wheels on
it and 8 spare spoke wheels came with it. I paid 75.00 for it and my Mom said
I paid too much. That was 75 hours work for me to pay for it.
Gordon
> Hello Gordon, that sounds interesting. I will save your email for future
ref.
> I knew it was a great buy back when I bought it and nothing has changed.
> Maby when the kids get a little older I"ll have more time, money, patience,
> understanding and money. Did I mention money!?? In the mean time I will
> have to settle for dreaming and maby catch a ride or two from the boys at
> Benton. Thanks, Cj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff distance |
Thanks Tim.
I have an A-80 with a metal 69 x 39 prop
and am looking for longer wooden prop for
more power. I was thinking of a 72 x 42
or 72 x 44. I don't know if my plane will
handle a 76" propeller.
Mike
>>>>
Mike,
My Ford has a homemade 76*44 oak prop.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
To: Pietenpol Discussion
| Subject: | Re: takeoff distance |
John,
What size wood or metal prop do you have?
Mike
Dallas
>>>>
John, I have a 65 Coninental and I need about 400 feet for
takeoff. I can easily clear 100 feet before I get 1000 feet down our
runway. My guess is the Ford should be very similar in performance. I
know I would rather have 1000 feet of grass than 4000 feet of cement.
Good luck.
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Dear Russell,
Not to cause you concern but the only prop I have seen that used three
pieces of wood (two laminations) delaminated at one, inch long location.
However, the owner had stored it inside his home for the winter. Too much
heat and lack of humidity may have really been the problem. You can e-mail
Lonnie Prince and he may be able to help you. Lonnie
owns Prince Aircraft Inc. and they advertise their props each month in
Sport Aviation. His work has appeared on numerous EAA Grand Champions.
Lonnie is the most knowledgeabe wood prop man I have ever talked with. Good
luck. Regards, Randall Reihing
>Gentlemen,
>
>I recently purchased a prop from Beres & Hirsch (sp). I think it is a 72 x
>44 although it is not in front of me. My question has more to do with the
>construction of the prop. It is made of only three
>laminations--Maple--Black Walnut--Maple. It is supposed to be a "Scimitar"
>type prop which I think means that it flexes (pitch changes) when power is
>added.
>
>Most of the props that I see have several more laminations. Have I created
>more grief for myself?
>
>I have attached their web site and email address if anyone is curious. They
>seem like knowledgeable guys and say that their props are flying on other
>Piets. Their prices are quite reasonable.
>
>http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=Beres+%26+Hirsch+propellers&oq=
>&url=http%3A//www.sportflyer.com/props.htm&ti=Aircraft/Aviation+Propeller+Cl
>ocks,+Airboat+and+Paraplane+Props+-+Beres+%26amp;+Hirsch+...&top=
>
>props(at)empnet.com
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
<< Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in
Michigan!! >>
Where in Michigan?
William Koucky
Traverse City, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
HOW did you get to a garage sale in MI? I thought you were landing at
airports?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Wkoucky(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 1:45 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>
>
>
> << Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a
> garage sale in
> Michigan!! >>
>
> Where in Michigan?
>
> William Koucky
> Traverse City, MI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
William in Traverse City,
You know Brian Amato?
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Wkoucky(at)aol.com <Wkoucky(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>
><< Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in
>Michigan!! >>
>
>Where in Michigan?
>
>William Koucky
>Traverse City, MI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Engine For Sale |
Chad,
Where in Kansas are you? I am just down the road in Guthrie OK.
Is the engine close to an airport?
I might be interested. I could put it in the back of my Maule to get it home.
Gary Woodbridge
Chad Johnson wrote:
> Hello, I have my Model A engine up for sale. I've got some bills due
so I need to do a little liquidation. I bought the engine about two years ago.
It was running good when removed from a car. It has .030 pistons and the
cylinder walls, babbits and bearings look good. I have it taken completly apart
and had planned on starting the rebuild but I just have too many other commitments
right now.
> When I bought the engine it was mounted to a wood crate, always kept
indoors, oil kept in it and the flywheel turned over at least once a month. I
also have a Zenith-2 carburator and intake manifold cleaned up and ready for
use. I believe this engine will make a great powerplant for the peit. I live
in central Kansas.(316)241-8094 or email cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com. I am asking
$200.00 for all. It will need to be pickup or shipped. Thank you.
> Chad
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef
________________________________________________________________________________
<< William in Traverse City,
You know Brian Amato?
>>
Yes I do. He use to work for me.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | September Kitplanes |
Steve,
Congratulations, That was a nice write up. A
great picture of the plane. I really expected to
see at least one of your kids in there somewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: September Kitplanes |
Thanks, and good thought! I'll have to post a family picture on my site.
We just
had a new photo taken too don't cha know.
Steve Eldredge
Provo (tornado alley) Utah
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
It's raining here in Des Moines, so, no flying, but I have one more flight
left on Piet NX899TC and I'm ready for Brodhead. Is there any events anyone
knows of at Brodhead in the next few weeks? The BPA newsletter shows my
Piet with a caption "This one will be at Brodhead '99". Since my engine
quit due to bad mags I wasn't able to make it on time, but, I'm ready now.
If anyone else missed the trip, let's set a date a have "Brodhead 99 Plus".
Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying mine I need
about an hour to recover.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I've also started laying the fuselage and wing rib out on Autocad. I don't
have the dimensions you're looking for, but if I can be of any help, let me
know. I work with Autocad all day every day, and maybe you do as well. I
agree with your statement about the capstrip finding it's true shape, but my
only question is which dimensions will it follow. I don't don't know if
that question makes sense without a long explanation, but let me know what
you think.
Tom Brant
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD drawings
>I have seen a couple of posts about incorrect dimensions etc..
>
>I'm in the process of enlarging the wing rib drawing via CAD. I have
>noticed the discrepancies, but they don't bother me, as I think the cap
>strips will find their own 'true' way. What does interest me is the
>precise location of the ends of the diagonal braces - are these critical?
>Should I scale them off the drawing?
>
>Does anyone have details and/or offset dimensions of the leading edge
>upright? and the trailing edge?
>
>When I'm done, I'll be happy to make these drawings available to anyone who
>can convince me that they've bought a set of plans - hopefully we can
>eventually build up a library of CAD details.
>
>Leo
>
>
>Nottinghamshire
>England
>
>leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rod funk <rphunque(at)hotmail.com> |
Does any one have knowledge or experience with wood other than sitka? I"m
wondering about yellow poplar, for instance. Rod Funk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Rod,
Do you get Sport Aviation ? (EAA)
DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Zuhlke <zuhlkeg(at)elroynet.com> |
| Subject: | More Brodhead Pictures |
Here is a link to the pics I shot at Brodhead. Feel free to copy and use
them. Richard, and Keith were looking for pics for their sites. These are
scanned at 256K colors to save file space. If you want them in millions of
colors let me know and I can send them. I'm not the best photographer but
Piets are pretty no matter how you look at them.
See them at: http://www.elroynet.com/zuhlkeg/pietenpols
Click on them to see them full size.
I'm new to the list. I bought at set of plans from Bernard Pietenpol in
1969. Now that I've had time to think it over, I better get started.
Jerry Zuhlke
zuhlkeg(at)elroynet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Rod,
AC 43.13 1B, page 1-2, table 1-1
Poplar, Yellow (Liriodendrow Tulipifera)
Strength properties as compared to spruce - slightly less than spruce except
in compression (crushing) and shear.
Maximum permissible grain deviation (slope of grain) 1:15
Remarks: Excellent working qualities. Should not be used as a direct
substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced
strength properties. Somewhat low in shock resisting capacity. Gluing
satisfactory.
Personal experience carving and furniture; works clean, glues well, is
stable.
I'm going with spruce and fir for my Scout.
Hope that this helps
DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Rod there is a poplar piet out there. Check the back issues of the news
letter. With the limited stresses involved with the piet I think weight
is a bigger issue than strength.
TED. T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
I agree with you that the seat back is too vertical (at least for me). The
plans show a seat back angle of about 9 degrees off vertical. I think
Bingelis's books recommend an angle of 15 degrees. When I made my mockup
fuselage, I made an adjustable seat back to try out different settings. I
found that 15 degrees indeed made a big difference. My decision was to move
the seat back 2 inches for a little more legroom, and increase the angle to
15 degrees. I will make up some of the setback by using 1 inch of
Temperfoam for cushioning. I don't think I will have a CG problem as I am
150 pounds.
Would be interested in the comments of others.
Al Swanson
(SNIP)...several comments were made about the angle of the seats being too
verticle.
>Am I correct in assuming that the seat back is not critical to structural
>integrity? Anybody out there done anything to relieve the angle and allow for
>a more comfortable seating posture?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rod funk <rphunque(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Yes. I'm EAA 30119 Rod
>From: GREA738(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: alternate wood
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:07:37 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Rod,
>Do you get Sport Aviation ? (EAA)
>DG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rod funk <rphunque(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
DG Thanks for the reference to AC 43. It helps. I heard that someone
built a poplar Piet. I'm wondering how that went. I can probably get
poplar cheaper than sitka. Rod
>From: GREA738(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: alternate wood
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:24:53 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Rod,
>AC 43.13 1B, page 1-2, table 1-1
>Poplar, Yellow (Liriodendrow Tulipifera)
>Strength properties as compared to spruce - slightly less than spruce
>except
>in compression (crushing) and shear.
>Maximum permissible grain deviation (slope of grain) 1:15
>Remarks: Excellent working qualities. Should not be used as a direct
>substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced
>strength properties. Somewhat low in shock resisting capacity. Gluing
>satisfactory.
>
>Personal experience carving and furniture; works clean, glues well, is
>stable.
>I'm going with spruce and fir for my Scout.
>Hope that this helps
>DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
There is a fly-in at Broadhead each September called the MAAC or Midwest
Antique Airplane Club. This is some fly-in !!!!!! Usually about 150
airplanes, same friendly atmosphere. You won't be dissapointed!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>It's raining here in Des Moines, so, no flying, but I have one more flight
>left on Piet NX899TC and I'm ready for Brodhead. Is there any events
anyone
>knows of at Brodhead in the next few weeks? The BPA newsletter shows my
>Piet with a caption "This one will be at Brodhead '99". Since my engine
>quit due to bad mags I wasn't able to make it on time, but, I'm ready now.
>If anyone else missed the trip, let's set a date a have "Brodhead 99 Plus".
>Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
>Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying mine I need
>about an hour to recover.
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rod funk <rphunque(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Ted, I think you're right. Thanks. Rod
>From: TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow)
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: alternate wood
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:51:25 -0500 (CDT)
>
> Rod there is a poplar piet out there. Check the back issues of the news
>letter. With the limited stresses involved with the piet I think weight
>is a bigger issue than strength.
>
>TED. T
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Russell,
Three laminations is fine. More than three laminations has more to do with marketing
than wood technology. The vendors have found the market thinks that the
more laminations the better the prop. I have two props, one with 20 laminations,
the other with 3. Absolutely no difference in performance or tracking after
a couple of hundred hours on each.
Regards,
Leo
--
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:10:54 Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>
>I recently purchased a prop from Beres & Hirsch (sp). I think it is a 72 x
>44 although it is not in front of me. My question has more to do with the
>construction of the prop. It is made of only three
>laminations--Maple--Black Walnut--Maple. It is supposed to be a "Scimitar"
>type prop which I think means that it flexes (pitch changes) when power is
>added.
>
>Most of the props that I see have several more laminations. Have I created
>more grief for myself?
>
>I have attached their web site and email address if anyone is curious. They
>seem like knowledgeable guys and say that their props are flying on other
>Piets. Their prices are quite reasonable.
>
>http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=Beres+%26+Hirsch+propellers&oq=
>&url=http%3A//www.sportflyer.com/props.htm&ti=Aircraft/Aviation+Propeller+Cl
>ocks,+Airboat+and+Paraplane+Props+-+Beres+%26amp;+Hirsch+...&top=
>
>props(at)empnet.com
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
Russell,
Three laminations is fine. More than three laminations has more to do with marketing
than wood technology. The vendors have found the market thinks that the
more laminations the better the prop. I have two props, one with 20 laminations,
the other with 3. Absolutely no difference in performance or tracking after
a couple of hundred hours on each.
Regards,
Leo
--
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:10:54 Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>
>I recently purchased a prop from Beres & Hirsch (sp). I think it is a 72 x
>44 although it is not in front of me. My question has more to do with the
>construction of the prop. It is made of only three
>laminations--Maple--Black Walnut--Maple. It is supposed to be a "Scimitar"
>type prop which I think means that it flexes (pitch changes) when power is
>added.
>
>Most of the props that I see have several more laminations. Have I created
>more grief for myself?
>
>I have attached their web site and email address if anyone is curious. They
>seem like knowledgeable guys and say that their props are flying on other
>Piets. Their prices are quite reasonable.
>
>http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&qt=Beres+%26+Hirsch+propellers&oq=
>&url=http%3A//www.sportflyer.com/props.htm&ti=Aircraft/Aviation+Propeller+Cl
>ocks,+Airboat+and+Paraplane+Props+-+Beres+%26amp;+Hirsch+...&top=
>
>props(at)empnet.com
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
>
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Rod,
Look at Sport Aviation, December 98 through April 99 for a good, five part
series by Ron Alexander titled "Aircraft Building - Aircraft wood". It may
help with your selection.
Denis
EAA 26539
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Douglas Fir is described in the EAA Building with Wood as being stronger than
Sitka, heavier and slightly stiffer. By following the plans dimensions will
have an even stronger plane than designed.
Several other woods are described in this publication, but Douglas Fir is by
far the most widely available.
Mike Bell
Columbia,SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/11/99 11:00:54 PM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: alternate wood
Does any one have knowledge or experience with wood other than sitka? I"m
wondering about yellow poplar, for instance. Rod Funk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Model A Engine For Sale |
Good morning Gary,
I am in McPherson, Kansas, about 25 miles North of Hutchinson or 30
south of Salina or 60 miles North of Wichita. Yes I am on the airport
(MPR) as I fly for a living. Let me know if you want to come look at it.
It is at my hangar. My phone: (316)241-9340. Thanks, Cj
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat angle
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:58:15 -0600
Several folks at Brodhead asked if my plane had the short or long, and I
really had to answer that it was a "mid". The seat angle is the reason why
I went to a 4.5inch stretch of the short fuse. I angle my seat back and
lowered the bottom and after the 47 hours I spent in the plane I am glad I
did. I don't know what the angle is, but it makes a big difference in
comfort. My seat cussion also doubled as my pillow for the trip.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Alan Swanson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:06 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Home from OSH - Finally!!
>
>
> I agree with you that the seat back is too vertical (at least
> for me). The
> plans show a seat back angle of about 9 degrees off vertical. I think
> Bingelis's books recommend an angle of 15 degrees. When I
> made my mockup
> fuselage, I made an adjustable seat back to try out different
> settings. I
> found that 15 degrees indeed made a big difference. My
> decision was to move
> the seat back 2 inches for a little more legroom, and
> increase the angle to
> 15 degrees. I will make up some of the setback by using 1 inch of
> Temperfoam for cushioning. I don't think I will have a CG
> problem as I am
> 150 pounds.
> Would be interested in the comments of others.
>
> Al Swanson
>
> (SNIP)...several comments were made about the angle of the
> seats being too
> verticle.
> >Am I correct in assuming that the seat back is not critical
> to structural
> >integrity? Anybody out there done anything to relieve the
> angle and allow for
> >a more comfortable seating posture?
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
Hee he he Ha Ha Ha....
I'd love to, butt....
Steve Eldredge
> Subject: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>
>
> Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
> Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying
> mine I need
> about an hour to recover.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>
glad to hear your airborn again Tim!
________________________________________________________________________________
Just got an email from Mitch Burns, He got his plane home and his white hat
from Broadhead on the same day. I hope to get him to join us on the list.
Mitch is the super nice guy who had the misfortune of getting hit at OSH by
wake turbulence *and* strong crosswind that wound his piet up in a tight
ground loop.
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
do you know what the dates are??? I've heard this fly-in is great !!
JoeC
Earl Myers wrote:
> There is a fly-in at Broadhead each September called the MAAC or Midwest
> Antique Airplane Club. This is some fly-in !!!!!! Usually about 150
> airplanes, same friendly atmosphere. You won't be dissapointed!
> Earl Myers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d.sevold" <dsevold(at)saltspring.com> |
| Subject: | Brakes on Aircamper |
Gentlemen:
I just got a pre-covering inspection day before yesterday, passed,but the
request came back for brakes, has anyone got drawings or details of where
the actuators would go on the tube rudder bar? I have 600 x 6 cleveland
wheels so a rotor and pads would not be insurmountable.
Thanks
Dean Sevold
Salt Spring Island
BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey man,
got any brodhead (not broadhead :)) photo's?! I'd really like to get copies
of the ones with the man made clouds!
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)bbt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
Guys,
Might want to check with some of the EAA chapter members there at
Brodhead first; I understand that this year's fly-in is necessarily
closed to non-MAAC members to to the huge numbers they had last year....
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:35:51 -0500
> From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
> Subject: Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> do you know what the dates are??? I've heard this fly-in is great !!
> JoeC
>
> Earl Myers wrote:
>
> > There is a fly-in at Broadhead each September called the MAAC or Midwest
> > Antique Airplane Club. This is some fly-in !!!!!! Usually about 150
> > airplanes, same friendly atmosphere. You won't be dissapointed!
> > Earl Myers
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Aircamper |
Dean,
This is the first I have heard that a Pietenpol required brakes.
Randall Reihing
>Gentlemen:
>
>I just got a pre-covering inspection day before yesterday, passed,but the
>request came back for brakes, has anyone got drawings or details of where
>the actuators would go on the tube rudder bar? I have 600 x 6 cleveland
>wheels so a rotor and pads would not be insurmountable.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dean Sevold
>Salt Spring Island
>BC
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
Gentleman;
I will check with (?) and advise the date. You won't believe some of the
planes that show up there. Many of the Piet gang are there too. This is a
lively bunch!
WILL ADVISE!
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>do you know what the dates are??? I've heard this fly-in is great !!
>JoeC
>
>Earl Myers wrote:
>
>> There is a fly-in at Broadhead each September called the MAAC or Midwest
>> Antique Airplane Club. This is some fly-in !!!!!! Usually about 150
>> airplanes, same friendly atmosphere. You won't be dissapointed!
>> Earl Myers
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
Steve;
I just saw the tornado film in SLC and the aftermath. Didn't think you had
thunderstorms much less that!
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>Hee he he Ha Ha Ha....
>
>I'd love to, butt....
>
>Steve Eldredge
>
>
>> Subject: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>>
>>
>> Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
>
>> Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying
>> mine I need
>> about an hour to recover.
>> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>> Tim Cunningham
>> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>>
>>
>
>glad to hear your airborn again Tim!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
No kidding. That was a surprise. Everyone is still stunned. It is amazing
to me that only one person was killed. Not used to seeing that kind of
weather so close to home. We do have pretty good cloud bursts, but the real
thunderstorms are had in the midwest..
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> Earl Myers
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:20 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>
>
> Steve;
> I just saw the tornado film in SLC and the aftermath.
> Didn't think you had
> thunderstorms much less that!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:01 AM
> Subject: RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
>
>
> >Hee he he Ha Ha Ha....
> >
> >I'd love to, butt....
> >
> >Steve Eldredge
> >
> >
> >> Subject: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
> >
> >> Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying
> >> mine I need
> >> about an hour to recover.
> >> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> >> Tim Cunningham
> >> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
> >>
> >>
> >
> >glad to hear your airborn again Tim!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers |
It makes Maine seem really calm. Thunderstorms here don't even wake me
up.
--- steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> No kidding. That was a surprise. Everyone is still stunned. It is
> amazing
> to me that only one person was killed. Not used to seeing that kind
> of
> weather so close to home. We do have pretty good cloud bursts, but
> the real
> thunderstorms are had in the midwest..
>
> Steve Eldredge
> Steve(at)byu.edu
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> Of
> > Earl Myers
> > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 10:20 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
> >
> >
> > Steve;
> > I just saw the tornado film in SLC and the aftermath.
> > Didn't think you had
> > thunderstorms much less that!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: steve(at)byu.edu
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
> >
> >
> > >Hee he he Ha Ha Ha....
> > >
> > >I'd love to, butt....
> > >
> > >Steve Eldredge
> > >
> > >
> > >> Subject: Broadhead 99 for Late Comers
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Maybe Steve can come back from Utah.
> > >
> > >> Keep those seat cushion ideas coming. After an hour flying
> > >> mine I need
> > >> about an hour to recover.
> > >> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> > >> Tim Cunningham
> > >> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >glad to hear your airborn again Tim!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick 4200/ 6200 series overhaul manual |
Henry,
What is the Slick Conversion Manual referred to? How can I get one?
Thanks, Randall Reihing
>I too would appreciate the Slick conversion manuel, and will gladly
reimburse
>
>Henry Williams
>59 Crescent Dr
>Huntington NY, 11743
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff Newton <cliffnewton(at)cwcom.net> |
Please remove me from the list as the number of e-mails I am receiving
has me swamped!
Please remove me from the list as the number of
e-mails I am
receiving has me swamped!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
Before you invest in plexiglass check out your motorcycle buddies and see
if they don't have cracked windshields they will give away. I used they
and they work great. Cheap too. jas
>>>>
What thickness plexiglass did y'all use for
windscreens?
JMG
<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
I bought my GN-1. I have a set of GN-1 plans. The printed plans call for
the front and rear cabanes being equal. Someone hand wrote that the rear
should be 1" shorter with a 2 degree angle of incidence. Someone at
Brodhead pointed out that the rear should be shorter. My plane does fly a
little tail low.
Any thoughts or clarification?
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol engine mount |
The Pietenpol I bought at the garage sale has a constructed fuselage. I
don't have the plans so I need to ask the following question.
Is the fuselage built for a particular engine or are the different engines
handled through the construction of the motor mounts? From discussions I
have glanced at (I never expected to be a Piet builder) I would guess the
latter. True? I want to put a Continental on it.
Thanks, Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Russell, I haven't seen any comment on your point that you felt that a
scimitar prop refers to one that flexes or changes pitch. I have always
understood that a scimitar prop (or scimitar anything...usually a sword)
describes the shape of the prop rather than any other characteristic
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d.sevold" <dsevold(at)saltspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Cabanes |
>I bought my GN-1. I have a set of GN-1 plans. The printed plans call for
>the front and rear cabanes being equal. Someone hand wrote that the rear
>should be 1" shorter with a 2 degree angle of incidence. Someone at
>Brodhead pointed out that the rear should be shorter. My plane does fly a
>little tail low.
>
>Any thoughts or clarification?
>
>Ted
>
I have a set of original set of Aircamper plans, the cabanes show a
difference of 1" front to back, for a wing incidence of 2 degrees. The
forward strut is 21 1/4", the rear strut is 20 1/4". I can send a scan if
you wish, email me directly.
Hope this helps.
Dean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol engine mount |
true on the latter,,,D.P. does have plans available for the continental motor
mount..this is the route I'm taking....mount now completed and installing
controls and seat belt/harnesses and starting on the fuse fuel tank.
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Ted Brousseau wrote:
> The Pietenpol I bought at the garage sale has a constructed fuselage. I
> don't have the plans so I need to ask the following question.
>
> Is the fuselage built for a particular engine or are the different engines
> handled through the construction of the motor mounts? From discussions I
> have glanced at (I never expected to be a Piet builder) I would guess the
> latter. True? I want to put a Continental on it.
>
> Thanks, Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Brodhead Pictures |
Enjoyed the photos,great job.
Doug..
> From: Gerald Zuhlke <zuhlkeg(at)elroynet.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: More Brodhead Pictures
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:18 PM
>
> Here is a link to the pics I shot at Brodhead. Feel free to copy and use
> them. Richard, and Keith were looking for pics for their sites. These
are
> scanned at 256K colors to save file space. If you want them in millions
of
> colors let me know and I can send them. I'm not the best photographer
but
> Piets are pretty no matter how you look at them.
>
> See them at: http://www.elroynet.com/zuhlkeg/pietenpols
>
> Click on them to see them full size.
>
> I'm new to the list. I bought at set of plans from Bernard Pietenpol in
> 1969. Now that I've had time to think it over, I better get started.
>
> Jerry Zuhlke
> zuhlkeg(at)elroynet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol engine mount |
>The Pietenpol I bought at the garage sale has a constructed fuselage. I
>don't have the plans so I need to ask the following question.
>
>Is the fuselage built for a particular engine or are the different engines
>handled through the construction of the motor mounts? From discussions I
>have glanced at (I never expected to be a Piet builder) I would guess the
>latter. True? I want to put a Continental on it.
>
>Thanks, Ted
>
Ted- You can build a fuselage the same and hang a Ford or Continental
on it, but with some considerations you can tailor each fuse to better suit
your neeeds. Clear as mud, I know. I used the short fuse (1933 Improved
Air Camper) and built the Continental motor mount as purchased from Donald
Pietenpol but made it one inch longer. If you build the long fuse your engine
will naturally be out several inches forward due to the extra 2" length you get
in
both the front and rear cockpits. The long fuse (1966) was designed, as I
understand
it, to handle the lighter air-cooled engines. Either fuse will work with a
Contintenal,
but you might have to slant/tilt your wing back further on a short fuse Piet
than a
long fuse Piet. This beats adding lead weight to your motor mount as some have
needed to do in a pinch. I love having 17 gals of fuel right behind the
firewall
too- not only does it make it easier to fuel, no ladders, no spilling fuel on
the
wing and having it run into your rear seat cushion, etc., but it puts the
weight
were you want it- up front. If you opt for a nose take you don't want to build
that
little plywood 'tray' behind the firewall (unless someday you plan on
converting to
a Ford) necessarily. This area can be used for a fuel tank or forward luggage
compartment. Also for everyone building those four fittings up front, as with
all
of Pietenpol's metal fittings, make them a tad longer than shown on the plans.
If built as shown, by the time you bolt them on, put the plywood firewall in
place,
maybe a thin layer of firecloth, and a sheet metal face, you may not be able to
get your motor mount 'pushed back' far enough to get the bolt hole to line up.
For some reason the fittings built as drawn are just barely, barely adequate
for
assembly and in some cases just impossible. Sorry to ramble but I just want
to save you some heartburn, time, and give you some ideas/options to best
suit what you need.
PS- I just rec'd some really nice photos of the group eating dinner at the
Mineshaft
restaurant in Hartford, Tues. July 27th eve. and will scan and post them
somewhere
next week.
Mike C.
The Pietenpol I bought at the garage sale has a constructed
fuselage. I
don't have the plans so I need to ask the following question.
Is the fuselage built for a particular engine or are the different
engines
handled through the construction of the motor mounts? From
discussions I
have glanced at (I never expected to be a Piet builder) I would guess
the
latter. True? I want to put a Continental on it.
Thanks, Ted
Ted- You can build a fuselage the same and hang a Ford or
Continental
on it, but with some considerations you can tailor each fuse to better
suit
your neeeds. Clear as mud, I know. I used the short fuse
(1933 Improved
Air Camper) and built the Continental motor mount as purchased from
Donald
Pietenpol but made it one inch longer. If you build the long fuse
your engine
will naturally be out several inches forward due to the extra 2
length you get in
both the front and rear cockpits. The long fuse (1966) was
designed, as I understand
it, to handle the lighter air-cooled engines. Either fuse
will work with a Contintenal,
but you might have to slant/tilt your wing back further on a short fuse
Piet than a
long fuse Piet. This beats adding lead weight to your motor mount
as some have
needed to do in a pinch. I love having 17 gals of fuel right
behind the firewall
too- not only does it make it easier to fuel, no ladders, no spilling
fuel on the
wing and having it run into your rear seat cushion, etc., but it puts the
weight
were you want it- up front. If you opt for a nose take you don't
want to build that
little plywood 'tray' behind the firewall (unless someday you plan
on converting to
a Ford) necessarily. This area can be used for a fuel tank or
forward luggage
compartment. Also for everyone building those four fittings up
front, as with all
of Pietenpol's metal fittings, make them a tad longer than shown on the
plans.
If built as shown, by the time you bolt them on, put the plywood firewall
in place,
maybe a thin layer of firecloth, and a sheet metal face, you may not be
able to
get your motor mount 'pushed back' far enough to get the bolt hole to
line up.
For some reason the fittings built as drawn are just barely, barely
adequate for
assembly and in some cases just impossible. Sorry to ramble
but I just want
to save you some heartburn, time, and give you some ideas/options to best
suit what you need.
PS- I just rec'd some really nice photos of the group eating dinner at
the Mineshaft
restaurant in Hartford, Tues. July 27th eve. and will scan and post them
somewhere
next week.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Ted and the Mustang |
Guys- I have this neat photo I'll post next week of intrepid
aviator Ted Brousseau from Naples, Florida taxiing out for
takeoff at Oshkosh and in front of him was this camo painted
P-51 Mustang !! I could just hear the tower now...."November
thirty three Papa Papa you're number two behind the Mustang,
cleared for takeoff......"
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Cabanes |
A GN 1 is NOT a Pietenpol. A Pietenpol has a slightly reflexed wing with
practically no nose down moment. A GN 1 has, I believe, a Cub wing, or
similar, that has nose down moment. Don't start changing wing setup until you
understand why you're doing it. On a Piet, changing the angle of incidence
should not change the nose down moment (it won't make any difference in your
plane being tail heavy). I don't think it will on your GN1 either. It may
make it fly better, or worse.
Where is your CG. Investigate that if tail heavy.
MikeBell
Columbia,SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 08/12/99 09:35:22 PM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 Cabanes
>I bought my GN-1. I have a set of GN-1 plans. The printed plans call for
>the front and rear cabanes being equal. Someone hand wrote that the rear
>should be 1" shorter with a 2 degree angle of incidence. Someone at
>Brodhead pointed out that the rear should be shorter. My plane does fly a
>little tail low.
>
>Any thoughts or clarification?
>
>Ted
>
I have a set of original set of Aircamper plans, the cabanes show a
difference of 1" front to back, for a wing incidence of 2 degrees. The
forward strut is 21 1/4", the rear strut is 20 1/4". I can send a scan if
you wish, email me directly.
Hope this helps.
Dean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
One of the names I previously posted was in error of the
Piet pilots who flew into Oshkosh:
JoBeth Barrett and PAUL, (not Robert) Barrett were flying
the Piet they purchased (Flying Mink) with an inverted Funk engine built by
Lowell Frank. What a neat couple- both are attorneys and
JoBeth does the flying as Paul is legally blind. Let me tell you
guys, this lady could handle that Piet no problemo. I would fly
with her anyday. Lowell Frank and Paul are very knowledgeable
engine people. If we had not had this 70th anniv. gathering I would
have never met so many really neat Piet people.
Mike C.
One of the names I previously posted was in error of the
Piet pilots who flew into Oshkosh:
JoBeth Barrett and PAUL, (not Robert) Barrett were flying
the Piet they purchased (Flying Mink) with an inverted Funk engine built
by
Lowell Frank. What a neat couple- both are attorneys
and
JoBeth does the flying as Paul is legally blind. Let me tell
you
guys, this lady could handle that Piet no problemo. I would
fly
with her anyday. Lowell Frank and Paul are very
knowledgeable
engine people. If we had not had this 70th anniv. gathering I
would
have never met so many really neat Piet people.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Gentlemen,
I just finished a book about a fellow who built a Starduster I (single
place). His name is Norm Weis and the book chronicles his many adventures
along the way. He teaches himself aerobatics, performs at a couple of
shows, and even races at Reno.
The best I can tell this took place sometime in the 70's. The book was
published in 1980. He is a pretty funny guy and I thought the book was very
entertaining.
If anyone would like to read it I can drop it in the mail. I would like to
get it back but I wouldn't mind it getting passed around for awhile.
Distribution Design Specialist
* Lucent Technologies, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Don Hicks and Randall Reihing,
Thanks for the info. on the propeller I thought that perhaps the fewer
laminations (3 layers = 2 laminations) made for a less rigid structure which
allowed for some flexing. I think that I read in a propeller article in
Experimenter that some of the early propellers (such as seen on a Sopwith
Camel etc.) were designed to flex and effectively change pitch (to a small
degree). I thought they used the term "scimitar" when refering to these
props.
Mine looks like these older props. The blades are more round out
near the end. Kind of spoon-shaped.
I am not familiar with a scimitar sword. Is it also somewhat
spoon-shaped towards the point?
Thanks again,
________________________________________________________________________________
The images page on AirCamper.org, which has been down for a couple
weeks, is back up.
http://www.aircamper.org/images.cfm
It now also contains a search function that covers a couple dozen
images not indexed in the pull-downs.
Richard
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Piets and Mustangs |
This was my first time at Osh and I also have some great video of a
combination of shots, like the one with the piet doing a run up with the
Tri-Motor just climbing out in the background, P47 in formation with F15,
etc.. Got to sit in the driver's seat of Mike Cuy's piet and it fit nicely
(thanks Mike). Spent one day at Brodhead and that was great! I fell in
love with Sky Gypsy. Even bummed a hop around the pattern with Kim. That
was my first open cockpit flight and THAT is flying!!! No more Cessnas for
me! Brodhead is like time travel. Grass field full of piets and antique
bipes. I went poking around in the open hangers and drooled over the piets
in progress. Inspirational to say the least!
Joe
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Ted and the Mustang
>Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:12:50 -0400
>
>Guys- I have this neat photo I'll post next week of intrepid
>aviator Ted Brousseau from Naples, Florida taxiing out for
>takeoff at Oshkosh and in front of him was this camo painted
>P-51 Mustang !! I could just hear the tower now...."November
>thirty three Papa Papa you're number two behind the Mustang,
>cleared for takeoff......"
>
>MC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol engine mount |
> >The Pietenpol I bought at the garage sale has a constructed fuselage. I
> >don't have the plans so I need to ask the following question.
> >
> >Is the fuselage built for a particular engine or are the different engines
> >handled through the construction of the motor mounts? From discussions I
> >have glanced at (I never expected to be a Piet builder) I would guess the
> >latter. True? I want to put a Continental on it.
> >
> >Thanks, Ted
> >
Atleast buy the reprint 1932 Flying and Glider Manual from EAA for 6.50 that
will at least give you plans in mini form and will answer a million
questions. That is all I have and I believe I can build a Piet from them but
if I were to actually start building a piet I would buy the plans from Don
Pietenpol just because with out the work of his great father we would not be
talking today.
Gordon
RW1 UL Piet
Mohawk MK IV EA-81
And a long list of plans
purchased.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Good Reading |
> Gentlemen,
>
> I just finished a book about a fellow who built a Starduster I (single
> place). His name is Norm Weis and the book chronicles his many adventures
> along the way. He teaches himself aerobatics, performs at a couple of
> shows, and even races at Reno.
>
> The best I can tell this took place sometime in the 70's. The book was
> published in 1980. He is a pretty funny guy and I thought the book was
very
> entertaining.
>
> If anyone would like to read it I can drop it in the mail. I would like to
> get it back but I wouldn't mind it getting passed around for awhile.
>
> Distribution Design Specialist
> * Lucent Technologies, Inc.
> *Tel: 404.814.6950
> *Fax: 404.814.6968
> * rbl1(at)lucent.com
>
Yes in deed, put me on the list to read.
Gordon Brimhall
36570 Hidden River Rd.
Hinkley, CA 92347
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Good Reading |
Gordon,
I'll try to get it in the mail to you on Monday. You'll enjoy it.
> Yes in deed, put me on the list to read.
> Gordon Brimhall
> 36570 Hidden River Rd.
> Hinkley, CA 92347
>
> Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Has anyone ever produced a CAD rending of the Pietenpol plans? As a
potential Piet builder who has purchased plans from Don Pietenpol, and a
list subscriber, I have learned that there may be several inconsistencies,
slightly inaccurate dimensions, and vauge areas that often frustrate a Piet
builder. It might be an interesting exercise to build a Piet and
incorporate your findings into a detailed set of CAD plans that a Piet
builder can rely on with confidence. Opinions? Feedback? Best regards,
Randall Reihing
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
Randall,
I posted a CAD document a week or so ago that was a start toward what you
describe. Except, I am building the Sky Scout so I have my hands full with
it's misprints and omissions etc.
I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and structural
problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if the
individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
frustrating and possibly dangerous.
I have no doubt that the airplane as built by Mr. Pietenpol has very little
room for improvement. However, since I was not there when he built it I
must follow the plans that he provided. Since these plans are known to have
mistakes then it is left up to me to make structurally sound decisions along
the way. This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
I have both the Flying and Glider Manuals and original plans (Sky Scout)
purchased from Don Pietenpol. I have found no differences between the two.
Recently someone asked why these plans had not been updated in their 70 year
history. The reply was that a better airplane can not be built by changing
the plans.
I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
mistakes had been corrected.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Randall,
Feedback: We build these things at least 3 times: Once in our head, once
with the plans and one or more times in our hands.
I have found it very valuable to re-draw each part, even quickly, with a
steel rule on a tablet on the shop work bench. This has saved me many small
problems at a stage prior to making sawdust or metal filings. Still have a
long way to go, but the two main areas you will find, have to do with the
airfoil on the plans, and the distance allowed for tool access to bolt heads on
the fittings.
In reading the archives here, you will also find that many folks raise the
Cabane struts 1-2" and adjust the seat back angle for entry and flying comfort.
Kind'a reminds me of the old chemistry teacher giving me an English lesson
when I used the excuse that I assumed I had the right bottle for my
experiment...ASSUME = makes an ASS of U & ME. Don't assume anything....check
it for accuracy, fit and usefulness to you and your project.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ArkiesAir(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Good Reading |
> Gordon,
>
> I'll try to get it in the mail to you on Monday. You'll enjoy it.
Thanks alot, I will put postage in it when I send it back to you or to next
person in line, whichever is your pleasure. Send it book rate which is
cheapest.
Thanks
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
When I start thinking like this, I remind myself that farm kids from the 1930's
built these ships successfully.
> ----------
> I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
> have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and structural
> problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if the
> individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
> length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
> issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
> frustrating and possibly dangerous.
>
This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Randall;
What Warren said here is MORE than correct! Do all the metal fittings
cockpit forward on graph paper first as there is no room for the nuts/
wrenches as described. Ref the plan errors, in those days, Orrin Hoopman was
like 18 years old and had to scramble to get those drawings done for an
article in MECHANICS ILLUSTRATED or something like that. No time to
proofread I guess. The Scout just faded into history untill recently when
all of a sudden there are 15 or more being built. They, the plans, do need
updated but I don't know how that will be accomplished. The errors aren't so
much dangerous as frustrating. The bottom of the fuselage curve being the
most noticeable. After that, I checked everything first with a calculator
starting with the overalls and working backwards . A little Kentucky Windage
and there was a Scout built to the "plans"....remember Kentucky Windage,
that was a lot of the engineering principle used back then especially on the
Model T Fords and others of that era. Moving the truss pieces around a bit
here and there shouldn't be a problem as this critter is well over built. It
will be up to us users to collect the boo boo's, compile them and offer an
addendum somewhere on one of the websites. That is the best thing I know to
do, If you compile all this, I would be glad to help. I have a second set of
drawings with several notations marked on them. The most frustrating was
having all the metal fittings done ahead of time then not being able to use
some of them as the bolts go right thru wood edgewise and so forth or having
to make extra cover plates to glue over the new "gouges" or whatever. Just
be patient and you will get thru it as I did without TOO much $@#$%
!!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans
>Hi Randall,
> Feedback: We build these things at least 3 times: Once in our head,
once
>with the plans and one or more times in our hands.
> I have found it very valuable to re-draw each part, even quickly, with
a
>steel rule on a tablet on the shop work bench. This has saved me many
small
>problems at a stage prior to making sawdust or metal filings. Still have a
>long way to go, but the two main areas you will find, have to do with the
>airfoil on the plans, and the distance allowed for tool access to bolt
heads on
>the fittings.
> In reading the archives here, you will also find that many folks raise
the
>Cabane struts 1-2" and adjust the seat back angle for entry and flying
comfort.
>
> Kind'a reminds me of the old chemistry teacher giving me an English
lesson
>when I used the excuse that I assumed I had the right bottle for my
>experiment...ASSUME = makes an ASS of U & ME. Don't assume
anything....check
>it for accuracy, fit and usefulness to you and your project.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
There is a fella in UK starting to do just that, I think. His name is Leo
Ponding....? he is on this list. No one to my knowledge has COMPLETED this
effort yet....go for it!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans
>Has anyone ever produced a CAD rending of the Pietenpol plans? As a
>potential Piet builder who has purchased plans from Don Pietenpol, and a
>list subscriber, I have learned that there may be several inconsistencies,
>slightly inaccurate dimensions, and vauge areas that often frustrate a Piet
>builder. It might be an interesting exercise to build a Piet and
>incorporate your findings into a detailed set of CAD plans that a Piet
>builder can rely on with confidence. Opinions? Feedback? Best regards,
>Randall Reihing
>Randall Reihing
>University of Toledo
>College of Engineering
>MIME Department
>419-530-8244
>FAX: 419-530-8206
>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)" <rbl1(at)lucent.com> |
I admit that I'm not that bright so I'll leave you guys alone.
> ----------
> From: Sayre, William G[SMTP:William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:05 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Plans
>
> When I start thinking like this, I remind myself that farm kids from the
> 1930's built these ships successfully.
>
> > ----------
>
> > I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
> > have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
> structural
> > problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
> the
> > individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
> > length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into
> past
> > issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
> > frustrating and possibly dangerous.
> >
>
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
I meant it as a tip that helps me work through these problems.
Definitely not as an insult - if that's how you took it please except my apology.
Bill Sayre
> ----------
> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)[SMTP:rbl1(at)lucent.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:02 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Plans
>
> I admit that I'm not that bright so I'll leave you guys alone.
>
> > ----------
> > From: Sayre, William G[SMTP:William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com]
> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:05 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: RE: Plans
> >
> > When I start thinking like this, I remind myself that farm kids from the
> > 1930's built these ships successfully.
> >
> > > ----------
> >
> > > I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
> > > have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
> > structural
> > > problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
> > the
> > > individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
> > > length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into
> > past
> > > issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
> > > frustrating and possibly dangerous.
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
SAME HERE-Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Sayre, William G <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 1:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Plans
>I meant it as a tip that helps me work through these problems.
>Definitely not as an insult - if that's how you took it please except my
apology.
>
>Bill Sayre
>> ----------
>> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell)[SMTP:rbl1(at)lucent.com]
>> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:02 AM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: RE: Plans
>>
>> I admit that I'm not that bright so I'll leave you guys alone.
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: Sayre, William G[SMTP:William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com]
>> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:05 PM
>> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > Subject: RE: Plans
>> >
>> > When I start thinking like this, I remind myself that farm kids from
the
>> > 1930's built these ships successfully.
>> >
>> > > ----------
>> >
>> > > I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems
that I
>> > > have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
>> > structural
>> > > problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but
if
>> > the
>> > > individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely
different
>> > > length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into
>> > past
>> > > issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
>> > > frustrating and possibly dangerous.
>> > >
>> >
>> > This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Be very careful what you refer to as 'mistakes' in the original plans. Just
because you don't understand something the first time through does not mean
it is a mistake. Those plans are amazingly accurate for their
circumstances.
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Plans
>Randall,
>
>I posted a CAD document a week or so ago that was a start toward what you
>describe. Except, I am building the Sky Scout so I have my hands full with
>it's misprints and omissions etc.
>
>I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
>have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
structural
>problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
the
>individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
>length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
>issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
>frustrating and possibly dangerous.
>
>I have no doubt that the airplane as built by Mr. Pietenpol has very little
>room for improvement. However, since I was not there when he built it I
>must follow the plans that he provided. Since these plans are known to
have
>mistakes then it is left up to me to make structurally sound decisions
along
>the way. This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
>
>I have both the Flying and Glider Manuals and original plans (Sky Scout)
>purchased from Don Pietenpol. I have found no differences between the two.
>
>Recently someone asked why these plans had not been updated in their 70
year
>history. The reply was that a better airplane can not be built by changing
>the plans.
>
>I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
>mistakes had been corrected.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I noticed most of the windshields at Brodhead were pretty thin and this
is OK. I was able to scrounge an old windshield being replaced in a
Mooney and as the price was right, we'll use it. It is a quarter inch
thick so it's not going to be very large.
Sincerely,
John Langston
>
>
>Before you invest in plexiglass check out your motorcycle buddies and
>see
>if they don't have cracked windshields they will give away. I used
>they
>and they work great. Cheap too. jas
>
>
>
>>>>>
>
>What thickness plexiglass did y'all use for
>windscreens?
>
>
>
>JMG
>
>
><<<<<<<<
>
>
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Aircamper |
Dean,
There is a drawing on how to install beake pedals in the 2nd Quarter 1993
issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. We've installed these and also
use 6:00X6 wheels from a PA-28-140. We're not far enough along to have
tried a taxi test yet, but it appears they will work well enough. Our
main concern is not to have too strong of brakes so as not to nose it
over too easily. I scrounged some old master cylinders from a '77 Mooney
M20J and I intend to reduce the leverage as much as possible to reduce
braking action.
Virl Deal made these drawings and they do not attach to the rudder bar,
but are independent and attach to the side longeron. They need to be
placed far enough forward so as not to interfer with rudder action during
landing. I feel it is necessary to have them far enough forward that a
deddinant and positive action would be required to operate the brakes.
Sincerely,
John Langston
writes:
>Gentlemen:
>
>I just got a pre-covering inspection day before yesterday, passed,but
>the
>request came back for brakes, has anyone got drawings or details of
>where
>the actuators would go on the tube rudder bar? I have 600 x 6
>cleveland
>wheels so a rotor and pads would not be insurmountable.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dean Sevold
>Salt Spring Island
>BC
>
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
Referance the MAAC Fly-in at Broadhead, I was told that it is now
limited to MEMBERS ONLY that were members PRIOR TO 8/1/99..........I
guess it got too popular too quick.
Earl Myers
Referance the MAAC Fly-in at
Broadhead, I was
told that it is now limited to MEMBERS ONLY that were members PRIOR TO
8/1/99..........I guess it got too popular too quick.
Earl
Myers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A list of errors... |
I have created a new section to AirCamper.org containing a list of
known errors or _common points of confusion_ (something that looks like
an error, but just needs a little explanation).
http://www.aircamper.org/Errors.cfm
If you know of one or more please post it there, so everyone can
benefit. Please double check your sources before you post.
If someone can get me a copy of the list mentioned earlier that someone
mentioned may have been started, I will enter the data into this new
section of the site.
Thanks!
Richard
===
http://www.AirCamper.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
You should see Jobeth drive their Stearman.
T.T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | simple setting change for Y2K |
for what it's worth,,,I was forwarded this memo and found it to be true.
you may think your pc is Y2K compliant, and some simple tests may have
actually affirmed that your hardware is compliant, and you may even have
a little company sticker affixed to your system saying "Y2K
Compliant"... but you'll be surprised that Windows may still crash
unless you do this simple exercise below..easy fix but something
Microsoft seems to have missed in certifying that their software is Y2K
compliant...this is simple to do but very important.
click on start
click on settings
double click on control panel
double click on regional settings
click on date
where it says "short date sample", look and see if it shows a two digit
year (yy)
unless you've previously changed it (and you probably haven't), it will
be set incorrectly with just the two Ys...it needs to be four!!that's
because Microsoft made the 2 digit setting the default setting for
windows 95, windows 98 and NT..this date format selected is the date
that windows feeds all application software and will not roll over into
2000. it will roll over to the year 00.
click on the button across from "short date style" and select the
option that shows "mm/dd/yyyy" or "m/d/yyyy"(be sure your selection has
four Ys showing, not just two Ys)
than click on OK on the bottom.
easy enough to fix, however, every "as distributed" installation of
windows worldwide is defaulted to fail Y2K rollover.
pass this along to your PC buddies...not matter how much of a guru they
think they are...this might be a welcome bit of information.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
I would be very interested in a list of "mistakes" (or maybe a nicer way to put
it is more details/clarifications). The following is some things I have observed:
1. Ash brace cross struts. Are they 1 inch thick or 3/4 inch. The drawing shows
both at different locations.
2. The plans (as purchased from Don Pietenpol) do not show a width dimension where
the longerons converge at the aft most point. I looked at the Flying Manual
and it said 1 1/8 inch.
3. When using the longer fuselage and using a corvair engine, how is the firewall
area constructed. I plan to build in the box structure as I think it will
provide needed stiffeness in that area.
I'm sure there are other items that need better explanation. As they arise I would
like to be able to send them to a central forum and then if necessary add
them to the "list". This would reduce a lot of frustration and duplicate questions
for present and future Piet builders.
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
> ----------
> From: John Greenlee[SMTP:jgreenlee(at)morgan.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:14 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Plans
>
> Be very careful what you refer to as 'mistakes' in the original plans. Just
> because you don't understand something the first time through does not mean
> it is a mistake. Those plans are amazingly accurate for their
> circumstances.
>
> JMG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:39 AM
> Subject: RE: Plans
>
>
> >Randall,
> >
> >I posted a CAD document a week or so ago that was a start toward what you
> >describe. Except, I am building the Sky Scout so I have my hands full with
> >it's misprints and omissions etc.
> >
> >I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
> >have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
> structural
> >problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
> the
> >individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
> >length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
> >issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
> >frustrating and possibly dangerous.
> >
> >I have no doubt that the airplane as built by Mr. Pietenpol has very little
> >room for improvement. However, since I was not there when he built it I
> >must follow the plans that he provided. Since these plans are known to
> have
> >mistakes then it is left up to me to make structurally sound decisions
> along
> >the way. This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
> >
> >I have both the Flying and Glider Manuals and original plans (Sky Scout)
> >purchased from Don Pietenpol. I have found no differences between the two.
> >
> >Recently someone asked why these plans had not been updated in their 70
> year
> >history. The reply was that a better airplane can not be built by changing
> >the plans.
> >
> >I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
> >mistakes had been corrected.
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Good point John. To the best of my knowledge there are no "mistakes" in the
Piet plans, just some inconsistencies, vague areas, and incomplete
information referred to by Piet builder's, that appears to frustrate them
in their efforts. For an 18 year old draftsman who was operating under a
close deadline they are excellent drawings. The successful history of
completed original design examples is the best illustration of the lack of
mistakes in the original drawings. But I have to believe that a good,
comprehensive set, of CAD drawings would make life easier for many
builder's..... Randall Reihing
>Be very careful what you refer to as 'mistakes' in the original plans. Just
>because you don't understand something the first time through does not mean
>it is a mistake. Those plans are amazingly accurate for their
>circumstances.
>
>JMG
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:39 AM
>Subject: RE: Plans
>
>
>>Randall,
>>
>>I posted a CAD document a week or so ago that was a start toward what you
>>describe. Except, I am building the Sky Scout so I have my hands full with
>>it's misprints and omissions etc.
>>
>>I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
>>have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
>structural
>>problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
>the
>>individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
>>length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
>>issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
>>frustrating and possibly dangerous.
>>
>>I have no doubt that the airplane as built by Mr. Pietenpol has very little
>>room for improvement. However, since I was not there when he built it I
>>must follow the plans that he provided. Since these plans are known to
>have
>>mistakes then it is left up to me to make structurally sound decisions
>along
>>the way. This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
>>
>>I have both the Flying and Glider Manuals and original plans (Sky Scout)
>>purchased from Don Pietenpol. I have found no differences between the two.
>>
>>Recently someone asked why these plans had not been updated in their 70
>year
>>history. The reply was that a better airplane can not be built by changing
>>the plans.
>>
>>I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
>>mistakes had been corrected.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
I agree- many times I saw what I thought were mistakes on the plans. But
when I studied further, I found that there was always a reason for them- it
was my mistake, not Bernard's. A few times I built to what I thought, only
to have to go back and redo according to the "mistake" in the plans. I bet
I have more time in studying the plans than I do building! Plus it is fun
to study the plans when the time I have to actually work is too short. The
pieces do all seem to fit together.
Al Swanson
>Be very careful what you refer to as 'mistakes' in the original plans. Just
>because you don't understand something the first time through does not mean
>it is a mistake. Those plans are amazingly accurate for their
>circumstances.
>
>JMG
>-----Original Message-----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d.sevold" <dsevold(at)saltspring.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Plans details |
>I would be very interested in a list of "mistakes" (or maybe a nicer way
to put it is more details/clarifications). The following is some things I
have observed:
>
>1. Ash brace cross struts. Are they 1 inch thick or 3/4 inch. The
drawing shows both at different locations.
The cross struts are thicker in the middle and tapered at the ends. Plans
show this but take some searching.
>2. The plans (as purchased from Don Pietenpol) do not show a width
dimension where the longerons converge at the aft most point. I looked at
the Flying Manual and it said 1 1/8 inch.
The with of the fuselage at the tail post should be close to the width of
the rudder.1/8 inch is too small.
Hope this helps.
Dean Sevold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
>I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
>mistakes had been corrected.
Amen... People are too affraid that the thing is getting redesigned.
Corrections is all that need to be made.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lassetter, Russell B (Russell) <rbl1(at)lucent.com>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Plans
>Randall,
>
>I posted a CAD document a week or so ago that was a start toward what you
>describe. Except, I am building the Sky Scout so I have my hands full with
>it's misprints and omissions etc.
>
>I plan to work on a document this weekend that lists the problems that I
>have encountered thus far--only as they relate to dimensional and
structural
>problems. For example, the total length of the fuselage is shown but if
the
>individual spacing between uprights is added up--a completely different
>length is arrived at. For clarification, a person has to delve into past
>issues of the BPAN etc. Needless to say, this type of thing is very
>frustrating and possibly dangerous.
>
>I have no doubt that the airplane as built by Mr. Pietenpol has very little
>room for improvement. However, since I was not there when he built it I
>must follow the plans that he provided. Since these plans are known to
have
>mistakes then it is left up to me to make structurally sound decisions
along
>the way. This is a scarry thought since I am not an aeronautical engineer.
>
>I have both the Flying and Glider Manuals and original plans (Sky Scout)
>purchased from Don Pietenpol. I have found no differences between the two.
>
>Recently someone asked why these plans had not been updated in their 70
year
>history. The reply was that a better airplane can not be built by changing
>the plans.
>
>I don't think that the person wanted redesigned plans--only ones where the
>mistakes had been corrected.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
I would also be more than glad to help out. I have AutoCAD at home and
could redraw if people are interested. I have just started to look at the
plans, and have found a few mistakes, but the more I ask, the more people
are coming up with too. Keep in touch.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans
>Randall;
> What Warren said here is MORE than correct! Do all the metal fittings
>cockpit forward on graph paper first as there is no room for the nuts/
>wrenches as described. Ref the plan errors, in those days, Orrin Hoopman
was
>like 18 years old and had to scramble to get those drawings done for an
>article in MECHANICS ILLUSTRATED or something like that. No time to
>proofread I guess. The Scout just faded into history untill recently when
>all of a sudden there are 15 or more being built. They, the plans, do need
>updated but I don't know how that will be accomplished. The errors aren't
so
>much dangerous as frustrating. The bottom of the fuselage curve being the
>most noticeable. After that, I checked everything first with a calculator
>starting with the overalls and working backwards . A little Kentucky
Windage
>and there was a Scout built to the "plans"....remember Kentucky Windage,
>that was a lot of the engineering principle used back then especially on
the
>Model T Fords and others of that era. Moving the truss pieces around a bit
>here and there shouldn't be a problem as this critter is well over built.
It
>will be up to us users to collect the boo boo's, compile them and offer an
>addendum somewhere on one of the websites. That is the best thing I know to
>do, If you compile all this, I would be glad to help. I have a second set
of
>drawings with several notations marked on them. The most frustrating was
>having all the metal fittings done ahead of time then not being able to use
>some of them as the bolts go right thru wood edgewise and so forth or
having
>to make extra cover plates to glue over the new "gouges" or whatever. Just
>be patient and you will get thru it as I did without TOO much $@#$%
!!
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:45 AM
>Subject: Re: Plans
>
>
>>Hi Randall,
>> Feedback: We build these things at least 3 times: Once in our head,
>once
>>with the plans and one or more times in our hands.
>> I have found it very valuable to re-draw each part, even quickly, with
>a
>>steel rule on a tablet on the shop work bench. This has saved me many
>small
>>problems at a stage prior to making sawdust or metal filings. Still have
a
>>long way to go, but the two main areas you will find, have to do with the
>>airfoil on the plans, and the distance allowed for tool access to bolt
>heads on
>>the fittings.
>> In reading the archives here, you will also find that many folks raise
>the
>>Cabane struts 1-2" and adjust the seat back angle for entry and flying
>comfort.
>>
>> Kind'a reminds me of the old chemistry teacher giving me an English
>lesson
>>when I used the excuse that I assumed I had the right bottle for my
>>experiment...ASSUME = makes an ASS of U & ME. Don't assume
>anything....check
>>it for accuracy, fit and usefulness to you and your project.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmbrant <tmbrant(at)uswest.net> |
I absolutely agree. If enough interest is shown, I will draw it up.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans
>Has anyone ever produced a CAD rending of the Pietenpol plans? As a
>potential Piet builder who has purchased plans from Don Pietenpol, and a
>list subscriber, I have learned that there may be several inconsistencies,
>slightly inaccurate dimensions, and vauge areas that often frustrate a Piet
>builder. It might be an interesting exercise to build a Piet and
>incorporate your findings into a detailed set of CAD plans that a Piet
>builder can rely on with confidence. Opinions? Feedback? Best regards,
>Randall Reihing
>Randall Reihing
>University of Toledo
>College of Engineering
>MIME Department
>419-530-8244
>FAX: 419-530-8206
>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | My plan interpretation mistake: |
When making my control horns(rudder+elev.) I noted the opening was about
1 in. Having just built my tail, I remembered the spar demension was
only 5/8 in. So I made my horns with the 5/8's opening. When I saw the
uncovered piet. at Pioneer airport the 1in opening was used with 1/8 ply
spacers, top and bottom, bringing the spar with to 1in. Will my horns be
ok without the ply. spacers? or should I build new horns? I see what you
mean about thinking these things threw first. I've only been studying my
plans since 1974, and am still having these problems!Thanks for any
help. Leon Stefan in KS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bert & Nancy Conoly |
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans
>Hi Randall,
> Feedback: We build these things at least 3 times: Once in our head,
once
>with the plans and one or more times in our hands.
Actually FOUR!
One in our head...
One with the plans...
The FIRST one with our hands ( the one that we build wrong)....
THEN the one that works :)
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
That is why I said "at least 3", and is also what caused me to start
drawing each part to full size dimensions, even as a rough drawing. You
would be astounded at my collection of mental light bulbs going off.....{;~)
Cheers,
Warren
Bert & Nancy Conoly wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Plans
>
> >Hi Randall,
> > Feedback: We build these things at least 3 times: Once in our head,
> once
> >with the plans and one or more times in our hands.
>
> Actually FOUR!
>
> One in our head...
> One with the plans...
> The FIRST one with our hands ( the one that we build wrong)....
> THEN the one that works :)
>
> Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Russ , A scimitar sword is one that is curved with the edge on the convex
side.
don hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hinge points for split axle gear |
Hey Guys,
I need a little advice. I have drilled my landing gear bushings per the
plans.
1/16" and 1/8" off center 1/4" hole. I have welded the bushings to the
landing gear "V".
I then noticed on the plans that the hole is suppose to come out to 5/16" per
the
plans. If I bring the hole out to 5/16" this will not give me a enough wall
on the
bushing to be confortable with.
Can I use a 1/4" bolt with no problem or do I have to start over and
change the
offset dimensions that are on the plans and use the 5/16" bolt?
Is there alot of stress on the hinge points?
If I have to go with the 5/16" bolt I would recommend builders to be
careful
with the dimensions on the plans.
any advice would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Hinge points for split axle gear |
Ron,
I did mine per the print, and they seemed to come out fine. You have to be
careful to get the offset on the "top of the lobe" for allignment.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: PTNPOL(at)aol.com
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge points for split axle gear
>Hey Guys,
> I need a little advice. I have drilled my landing gear bushings per
the
>plans.
>1/16" and 1/8" off center 1/4" hole. I have welded the bushings to the
>landing gear "V".
>I then noticed on the plans that the hole is suppose to come out to 5/16"
per
>the
>plans. If I bring the hole out to 5/16" this will not give me a enough
wall
>on the
>bushing to be confortable with.
>
> Can I use a 1/4" bolt with no problem or do I have to start over and
>change the
>offset dimensions that are on the plans and use the 5/16" bolt?
>
> Is there alot of stress on the hinge points?
>
> If I have to go with the 5/16" bolt I would recommend builders to be
>careful
>with the dimensions on the plans.
>
> any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
Yes when I finish my Piet and have 40 hrs' I'll be ready
for a trip to Alaska, may be even the arctic circle!
well that's a little to ambitious but Alaska for sure!
Russ
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:06 PM
| Subject: | Re: Home from OSH - Finally!! |
> Hello Mike, Steve and others. After 62.6 hours flying, 3281 miles over
> the ground, 4069 miles in the air (head winds), 37 fuel stops and 60
> landings (lots of rides), I finally set down back in Naples Sunday
evening.
> I hope you had as great a time as I did. It was nice to finally meet you
> after all this time.
>
> Things learned: 1) A Piet is a great way to see the country. 2) Seat
> padding is a very important, but probably overlooked, item.
>
> Scariest momemt: clearing the trees by 2' departing Hendersonville, NC.
>
> Greatest discovery: A partially built Pietenpol at a garage sale in
Michigan!!
>
> Happiest moment: Setting down back at my home field.
>
> Future plans: Anyone for a trip to Alaska...
>
> Ted Brousseau
> Naples, FL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate wood |
Rod,
There's a lot of alternate woods to sitka spruce and I've heard that
yellow poplar is approved for repairs, however I haven't seen
the wood's strength described as I have the western conifers
such as you'll find in the west, example would be modulus of rupture,
shear parallel to the grain etc. Several of these have been listed
in various publications and I think you'll find one at Decosta's site.
My brother in law recently commented that he was pulling a couple
of poplar trees with his tractor (that were cut off his farm)
to his neighbors who had a band saw
and was having them ripped up for barn doors. I asked him about the
properties of the wood he said very strong and light but he thought
sassafras was even better having taken advantage of it's light
weight and strength to build cattle racks for a pickup trucks.
I've seen several houses built of poplar and they seem strong
but they don't seem to have the nail holding ability of some other
woods. I would be interested in a stress analysis of Poplar
if anyone knows of one. I would have to see a full report
before I would construct a spar, I can buy the wood all day
long, clear for about $ .50 a board foot. But remember
before constucting out of any material get the facts from
a professional source.
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rod funk <rphunque(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:03 PM
> Does any one have knowledge or experience with wood other than sitka? I"m
> wondering about yellow poplar, for instance. Rod Funk
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hinge points for split axle gear |
I had this same problem on my Scout drawings. I stayed with the 5/16" bolt
and same offset . I just bought bigger barstock. I did lay this out on graph
paper first, that is how I caught the "error" before I cut metal.......stay
with the 5/16" bolt!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: PTNPOL(at)aol.com
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge points for split axle gear
>Hey Guys,
> I need a little advice. I have drilled my landing gear bushings per
the
>plans.
>1/16" and 1/8" off center 1/4" hole. I have welded the bushings to the
>landing gear "V".
>I then noticed on the plans that the hole is suppose to come out to 5/16"
per
>the
>plans. If I bring the hole out to 5/16" this will not give me a enough
wall
>on the
>bushing to be confortable with.
>
> Can I use a 1/4" bolt with no problem or do I have to start over and
>change the
>offset dimensions that are on the plans and use the 5/16" bolt?
>
> Is there alot of stress on the hinge points?
>
> If I have to go with the 5/16" bolt I would recommend builders to be
>careful
>with the dimensions on the plans.
>
> any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hinge points for split axle gear |
Thanks Earl,
I will have to pull my bushings off of my "v"'s. I will increase the bar
stock to 3/4" and 1". That was alot of work down the drain. I wish the plans
were better. There are alot of
mistakes in the plans.
Thanks again,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1st Annual Pietenpol Fly-In |
Announcing the 1st annual Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airport on Sept 11,
1999. Benton KS is about 10 miles northeast of Wichita KS. The 2600' hard
surface 36/18 runway is in fair condition, with a grass strip on the west
side that is about 2000'. There is no forum, just lots of interesting
discussions are planned. We will probably have some stuff like ribs, jigs,
misc. parts, and info on how to order the plans from Don Pietenpol. An
informal gathering of anyone interested in a seeing replicas of the design
that is the grandfather of all homebuilt planes. There should be at least
five Pietenpol airplanes there, four Model A, and one Corvair powered model.
Three of these are airworthy. The Ford Model A car club also plans to
attend, with 20 to 30 Model A cars planning to attend.
No camping is allowed on the airport, for the simple reason that there is
no restroom facilities, except for the bathroom in the office, however we are
looking into renting a porta-john. Camping is available at Sante Fe Lake,
about 5 miles southeast of Benton. Their rates are $4.00 / night, and for a
motorhome it will set ya back $10.00. There is a new motel near Jabara
Airport, which is about 8 miles to the west of Benton.
If ya can't e-mail me with your questions call me, Chuck Gantzer,at
316-262-3392 in the evenings. Or call Doug Bryant at 316-733-2324
Pietenpols Forever
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john scott <jpscott(at)shoreham.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: Fw: new virus] |
"Atlantis Seafork Inc." ,
Barbara Williams , Bill Hudson ,
Bronwen Field , Carol Fox ,
"chipman(at)shoreham.net" ,
Chuck & Penny ,
"DEBF(at)hunterlink.net.au" ,
Don & Nida Combs , don harris ,
Donna Galvin ,
Douglas & Wendi McCauley , Ed ,
Even Jones , Gail ,
Heather Merwin ,
"HMcKee(at)skiracing.com" , Jana Harris ,
Jean McGuiness ,
Jeannie Williams ,
Jennifer Wersinger , Jesse Ramey ,
Jim Arnold , Joanne Powers ,
John & Anne Scott , Julie Ruby ,
kelly book , "KENNY@SUSAN" ,
Kim Krouger , larry&trish Gorden ,
Leslie Paquette ,
lorie crain , Lorrene Henner ,
Marge Low , "Marie L. Petteys" ,
mark behar , mark harris ,
Marsh Hudson-knapp , Mary Ramey ,
Mary Young , Matthew Currie ,
Mike Galvin , Nancy Andreoletti ,
Parie Duggan , Patricia Sue Jones ,
Pete Merriman , Peter Aines ,
Pietenpol Discussion , Rhea ,
Rick & Cindy Goodman ,
Ron & Shara Juckett , Sharon ,
Steve Ehlers ,
"Tech_Daily_Feedback(at)NETSCAPE.COM" ,
tina at work , Tina Blyther
default from arc0a114.rut.sover.net [207.136.196.114] 207.136.196.114
________________________________________________________________________________
"Scott Lobdell" ,
"Rhonda" ,
"Pattie" , "Pat Carson" ,
"Nancy Huntington" ,
"Nancy" ,
"MaryAnn" , "Maggie" ,
"Lisa Ladd" , "Kathy F." ,
"Kathy and Steve" ,
"Julie and Barry" ,
"john scott" ,
"Joe Watkins" ,
"Jimmy & Andrea" ,
"Jim and Deb Lynch" ,
"Harrington's" ,
"Glenn Davis" , "Candy" ,
"Butch & Linda" ,
"Bruce James"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLIAM KINCH <kinbbrac(at)epix.net> |
Harner ; Linda Babnis ; Lisa Baltz
; Mary Ellen Caffas ; Peter Babnis
New Virus!!!!
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > It will arrive on e-mail titled CALIFORNIA.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > IBM and AOL have announced that it is very powerful, more so than
>> >>>> > Melissa, there is no remedy. It will eat all your information on
>> >>>> > the hard drive and also destroys Netscape Navigator and Microsoft
>> >>>> > Internet Explorer.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Do not open anything with this title and please pass this message
>> on
>> >>>> > to all your contacts and anyone who uses your e-mail facility.
Not
>>
>> >>>> > many
>> >>>> > people seem to know about this yet so propagate it as fast as
>> >>>> > possible.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Please pass this warning on to anyone you know.
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Fw: new virus] |
Please do not pass along virus warnings with out checking it out.
It's as simple as pulling up your favorite search engine, and
typing in the name of the virus along with the word 'hoax'. You'll
end up getting somehing like this:
http://www.stiller.com/wobbler.htm
john scott wrote:
> New Virus!!!!
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > It will arrive on e-mail titled CALIFORNIA.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > IBM and AOL have announced that it is very powerful, more so than
> >> >>>> > Melissa, there is no remedy. It will eat all your information on
> >> >>>> > the hard drive and also destroys Netscape Navigator and Microsoft
> >> >>>> > Internet Explorer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: simple setting change for Y2K |
fishin wrote:
>
> for what it's worth,,,I was forwarded this memo and found it to be true.
>
> you may think your pc is Y2K compliant, and some simple tests may have
> actually affirmed that your hardware is compliant, and you may even have
> a little company sticker affixed to your system saying "Y2K
> Compliant"... but you'll be surprised that Windows may still crash
> unless you do this simple exercise below..easy fix but something
> Microsoft seems to have missed in certifying that their software is Y2K
> compliant...this is simple to do but very important.
The previous email about changing the short format date in Windows is a
hoax. Read on to see what one of the contributing writers/editors at
Windows magazine (Fred Langa) has to say about it and other Y2K issues.
Windows' "Short Date Format" Scare
I've gotten maybe 50 emails in the last week about a "new" Y2K
issue---maybe you got one too. The heart of the letter is something like
this:
Every copy of Windows in the world has
default settings that will make it FAIL on Jan 1,
2000!!!! I'm not kidding!!!! Check for
yourself!!!! PASS THIS LETTER ON!!!!!
TEST:
Click on "START"
Click on "SETTING"
Click on "CONTROL PANEL"
Double click on "REGIONAL SETTINGS" icon
Click on the "DATE" tab at the top of the page.
Where it says, "Short Date Sample," look and see
if it shows a "two digit" year (yy). That is the
default setting for Windows 95, Windows 98 and NT
This date RIGHT HERE is the date that feeds
application software and WILL NOT rollover in the
year 2000. It will roll over to 00.
Click on the "SHORT DATE STYLE" pull down
menu and select the option That shows, mm/dd/yyyy.
(Be sure your selection has four Y's showing and
not two.)
Click on "APPLY" and then click on "OK" at
the bottom.
Alas, this note is mostly wrong--- in fact, Microsoft calls it an
outright
hoax. The worst part of the email is that it fails to distinguish
between
the way dates are calculated and the way they're displayed. The "date
format picker" above affects only how Windows displays dates and
interprets
the way you type in dates. It tells you nothing about the underlying
software calculations or about your PC's date-keeping hardware.
If your PC hardware is Y2K compliant and if you're running a newer
version
of Windows and/or have applied the Y2K patches available (for free) from
the Microsoft site, Windows will calculate Y2K dates correctly
regardless
whether or not the date is displayed in two- or four-digit format.
On the other hand, if you don't have a Y2K-compliant PC, or if you
haven't
applied the Y2K patches, then changing the date-display format is just
rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic: Changing the format does
nothing except to give you a false sense of security.
In fact, using four-digit dates won't do you any good at all if the rest
of
your version of Windows, or the rest of your software, or your PC itself
has any of about five completely separate Y2K issues. This "set a
four-digits date format and you'll be fine" approach is way too
simplistic.
It's totally misleading. It's wrong.
Fortunately, the real Y2K tests, and the real fixes, are ridiculously
easy:
To fully address this issue (which has alarmed many of you; and caused
others to have false sense of Y2K security) I've made this the topic of
my
Dialog Box column on the WinMag site this week.
There, in more detail than I could fit in this newsletter, I'll give you
the full scoop on the "Date Format" scare, and why it can be perfectly
fine
to continue using two-digit dates. I'll show you where to get free fixes
and patches for any Y2K problems your copy of Windows may have, and I'll
show you a simple, free, five-minute do-it-yourself test anyone can do
to
ensure that your PC is fully Y2K-safe at every level.
Y2K scares---and bogus emails--- abound. But don't be taken in: Come get
the facts, starting midday (EDT; GMT-4) Monday Aug 9, 1999 via the front
page at http://www.winmag.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Page <dougpage(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Trying to unsubscribe |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Dear Steve I am enjoying the chatter about Piet's, but I am not
ready to start building yet. I have tried to unsubscribe 3 times,
using the procedure you provided. I get a delivery failure message
that the address you gave is not a current subscriber.
Please unsubscribe me.
August 02, 1999 - August 13, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ba