Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bt
November 02, 2000 - January 01, 2001
> best.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ron Butcher where are you |
| From: | catdesigns(at)juno.com |
Sorry to bother all of you, I'm trying to get a hold of Ron Butcher if
he is still on the list. Ron could you E-mail me please.
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
> > > the consensus was pedals can put a lot of strain on
> > > the rudder horn, enough to break or bend it. It was
> > > the opinion that the rudder bar is the way to go.
I agree and have the rudder bar. Mike Cuy's linkage to the front pedals
makes sense. Thanks Mike!
Have any of you got differential brakes built onto your rudder bar?
> > Am I assuming correctly that practically all the list
> > members have decided on the bar as the way to go?
> > Bottom line, how does it feel and handle on the ground
> > and in flight? > > Ed
The ankle action is a bit different at first but you soon get used to it.
> >
> The rudder controls are not reversed with the bar vs. the pedals.
> should fly the same old way.
> walt
Just a point of interest. The Hawker Hurricane of WW11 fame uses a rudder
bar.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
what would be the consequence of laying the front
pedals down when not in use. no 1. that would leave
more leg space for the passenger. no.2 they wouldn't
interfere with the passengers feet when he/she is not
flying the airplane. I believe I seen that before with
a quick disconnect where the cables fastened to the
rudder bar.
del
From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | matronics address |
Not long ago the fellow who runs this list posted an address to which
we can send contributions to help support his operations. I accidently
erased that E-mail before writing down the address. Can someone please post
that physical address so I can send in a check.
Thanks
Ed "G"
Paalm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
>
>> > > the consensus was pedals can put a lot of strain on
>> > > the rudder horn, enough to break or bend it. It was
>> > > the opinion that the rudder bar is the way to go.
I have had no problems with the rudder bar. The only mod I did make was to
bring the tail wheel cables to the rudder bar rather then swag them to the
rudder cables as indicated in the prints.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder pedals |
Del
If you also make the front stick removable and devise a method of
disconnecting the throttle in the front cockpit, if you have one in mind,
then non pilot type passengers will have less to worry about touching,
baggage
will not be able to jam the controls we you are AirCamping. ;-)
John
----- Original Message -----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder pedals
>
> what would be the consequence of laying the front
> pedals down when not in use. no 1. that would leave
> more leg space for the passenger. no.2 they wouldn't
> interfere with the passengers feet when he/she is not
> flying the airplane. I believe I seen that before with
> a quick disconnect where the cables fastened to the
> rudder bar.
> del
>
> From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: matronics address |
ED G.
The Matronics contribution address is:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Ed, I deleted mine too, without thinking about it, luckily mine was still
in my trash can waiting to be dumped. I was thinking about doign the same
and sending in a check. This is a very valuable resource, and worth
supporting. I haven't before, but I think I will this year.
Thanks!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: matronics address |
Gary,
Ditto
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Merrill C Isaacson <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
I just joined the list yesterday. was wondering how much to send for my contribution
for the list. I can see why this could be a very good source of info as
I am just starting my piet.
Merrill
Mount Dora, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Tail wheel cables to rudder bar |
Hello Mike B. Swaging the tail wheel cables to the rudder cables is the
simpler way to do it. What would make you want to bring the cables to
the rudder bar instead? Another interesting note: In the old BPANews, a
writer suggested connecting the tail wheel cables to the rudder bar
about 4 inches out from the pivot. Said if connected at outer end of
rudder bar you over steer the tail wheel. ? Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Hello Listers!
This is just a reminder that the Annual List Fund Raiser is currently
underway. Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued
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Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
I too am just starting the center section. I'll look at the plans and the
photos I have and see if it gives any insight. If so I'll let you know.
Meantime I will be looking for someone to reply to your question who has
done it and found the answer. Dave Boyd, Champaign IL
>From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:18:56 EDT
>
>
>I have reached a point in construction where I feel like I've run off the
>page of instructions. Naamely the center section. The plans ( supplemental
>sheet for 3 pc wing and color photos ) show 3/8 compression struts (2)
>against lower edge of spars with instructions to cut the lower edge to the
>same curve as the lower edge of the rib. Question: Is this strut to be
>installed with the lower edge adjacent to the ribs so the plywood
>compartment
>floor will attach or should this be above somewhat and the lower section be
>covered with fabric? One of the 4 photos show a view from above and it
>appears that there is another compression strut on either side with
>vertical
>cap strips and gussets. This feature is NOT shown on the supplemental plan.
>I've completed most everything shown on the plans. Now I'm on my own.
>HELP
>Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel cables to rudder bar |
Stefan)
>
>Hello Mike B. Swaging the tail wheel cables to the rudder cables is the
>simpler way to do it. What would make you want to bring the cables to
>the rudder bar instead? Another interesting note: In the old BPANews, a
>writer suggested connecting the tail wheel cables to the rudder bar
>about 4 inches out from the pivot. Said if connected at outer end of
>rudder bar you over steer the tail wheel. ? Leon S.
>
In the conventional tail wheel ( leaf spring ) with the tail wheel cables
swaged to the rudder cables & pilot aboard (thus tension on the leaf
spring), check the rudder cables in the cockpit. They will be under
increased tension compared to the empty airplane.
My cables both, are connected to the end of the rudder bar, I have found no
tendency to oversteer. In fact, ground handling is great.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Hello Group,
My Piet has been flying for thirty years this month with Cub
rudder pedals in the rear and a rudder bar in the front. This
provides a closed circuit where the rudder bar prevents over-
stressing the rudder horn when one stomps on the pedals.
I put pedals in the rear as a matter of preference and not for
any technical reason. The rudder bar as shown in the plans
would be fine.
My tailwheel steering cables are 3/32 inch 7x19 and extend
from the tailwheel steering horns over pulleys mounted on
the lower crosspiece directly below the front horizontal stabi-
lizer (tailplane) spar. From there they run directly all the way
to the rudder pedal, sharing the attachment with the rudder
cable. I don't like attaching the TW steering cables to the rud-
der cables in the aft fuselage because they deflect them and
produce wear on fairleads (and the cable itself at the fairlead).
Someone mentioned that TW steering cables attached to a
rudder bar should not be attached to the rudder bar ends in
order to avoid tailwheel oversteering. A valid point! However,
when attaching these cables near the center of a rudder bar,
one would have to be careful to avoid interference with the ot-
her controls (aileron crank arms on the torque tube, for example).
Cheers,
Graham Hansen CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Model A Engine Parts |
Dear Piets, In July I acquired an A Model Block and some cranks in
anticipation of having it rebuilt by a specialist in Little Rock. The next
morning Joe C put his Piet project on the list for sale. I bought it before
lunch. Point is, I have these parts available is anyone is interested. I've
never even paid my friend for them nor had I even asked him what I was to pay
him. I did ask yesterday and he said he would like $ 200 for the block, 4
crankshafts and 4 connecting rods. I tried to mike the cylinders and crank
journals with my Chinese caliper. Not too accurate. What I arrived at was 2
cranks appear to be standard. Main bearing journals are 1 5/8 in. Connecting
rod journals are 1 1/2 in.
The other 2 cranks appear to be10 to 15 thousand under.
The block is .015 over the standard 3 7/8.
If interested e-mail me direct so we won't burden the list.
Thanks
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Hello Ed,
Both myself and Dennis Scharf, a fellow piet builder are using rudder
pedals with toe brakes for the rear cockpit and a rudder bar for the front.
No springs required on the pedals that way, and good place for brake
pedals. The disadvantage as I am sure I read somewhere from something BHP
wrote is that if you have a passenger in the front with a rather large rear
end the same rear end may interfere with the pedals. Other than that there
is no real mod required - just put the bar in the front and the pedals in
the back. On a related note, I put a tongue on each end of my rudder bar
above the bar itself to allow a bolt to pass thru this, thru the cable eye,
and then thru the bar. Saves a couple of cable shackles which are a bit
pricey.
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
----------
> From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
> Date: Thursday, November 02, 2000 7:09 AM
>
>
> Is there an option whereby I can install rudder pedals
> instead of a bar on the Piet? Has anyone done this?
> If so, how involved is it? Still waiting on the plans
> (the "original" plans and the Grega plans), so I have
> nothing to reference.
>
> Ed
> Connecticut
>
> From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Skinner <innovate(at)gibsoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale? |
Walt,
I have a Piet with 90 Hp Franklin for sale on Barnstormers (www.barnstormers.com).
Let me know if you want more info.
Jim Skinner
walter evans wrote:
>
> I remember seeing included in a letter, that someone was selling a piet.
> Can't seem to find it in the listing.
> walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
From what I can tell from the plans the plywood floor of the fuel tank
compartment would attach to the compression struts, that is the compression
struts which are to be cut in contour with the lower part of the ribs, in
the center section. I don't have the color photos you mention. I sure
would like to hear from someone else on this.
Dave Boyd in Champaign, IL
>From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:18:56 EDT
>
>
>I have reached a point in construction where I feel like I've run off the
>page of instructions. Naamely the center section. The plans ( supplemental
>sheet for 3 pc wing and color photos ) show 3/8 compression struts (2)
>against lower edge of spars with instructions to cut the lower edge to the
>same curve as the lower edge of the rib. Question: Is this strut to be
>installed with the lower edge adjacent to the ribs so the plywood
>compartment
>floor will attach or should this be above somewhat and the lower section be
>covered with fabric? One of the 4 photos show a view from above and it
>appears that there is another compression strut on either side with
>vertical
>cap strips and gussets. This feature is NOT shown on the supplemental plan.
>I've completed most everything shown on the plans. Now I'm on my own.
>HELP
>Corky in La
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Ground adjustable carbon fiberf props |
Has anyone had any experience with the ground adjustable carbon fiber props?
Comments appreciated.
Dick G.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Anyone know the currrent spruce package price for
wings and fuselage from either Jean Peters or Wick's?
Still waiting on pricing from Peters and just
considering Wick's at this point.
Anyone buy their spruce from Wick's? Did you have to
provide Wick's with a cut list or did it have it in
its files as Peters does?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Ed,,, The fuse package from Jean Peters was around 725.00. All pieces were
cut close to
what they needed to be and marked,,,very very helpful. Excellent quality
spruce.
I think he said the wing package was around 900.00. Don't remember for sure
as I
didn't get the wing wood from him. The only hassle was going up to Detroit
and dealing
with customs. Can't talk for the wing package but I highly recommend the
fuse package.
Gives you a real head start on the project and as Bernie said in the manual,
every thing
comes off the fuse so it's a good place to start.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Edward
Nolan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce source
Anyone know the currrent spruce package price for
wings and fuselage from either Jean Peters or Wick's?
Still waiting on pricing from Peters and just
considering Wick's at this point.
Anyone buy their spruce from Wick's? Did you have to
provide Wick's with a cut list or did it have it in
its files as Peters does?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Yes, That's what I did. It was suggested by Brian Kenney. I placed a pulley
under the front seat and connected the two front pedals. Worked like a
charm. alleviating all pressure on the rudder. And if you don't want to bend
the horn, lower it in-line with the forces acting on it.
Domenico
-----Original Message-----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com>
Date: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
>
>An important consideration in this decision is the fact that
>the rudder bar allows only "differential" tension on both rudder
>cables and the rudder horn, and prevents one from inadvertantly
>bending the horn when pushing with both feet.
>
>That being said, it seems like I've seen (though I can't remember
>where) someone who had replaced the bar with pedals, but added
>an extra cable which connected the two rudder pedals and kept
>all tension on the cables differential.
>
>
>-Bill
>
>Edward Nolan wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is there an option whereby I can install rudder pedals
>> instead of a bar on the Piet? Has anyone done this?
>> If so, how involved is it? Still waiting on the plans
>> (the "original" plans and the Grega plans), so I have
>> nothing to reference.
>>
>> Ed
>> Connecticut
>>
>> >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
>> http://experts.yahoo.com/
>>
>
>--
>William C. Beerman, Principal Engineer
>Pliant Systems Inc.
>4024 Stirrup Creek Drive, Durham, NC, 27703
>919-405-4862 fax: 919-544-5356
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce source |
Two years ago I got my whole spruce order from Aircraft Spruce for $1,138.00
+ freight. I can email copies of the paperwork if you are interested. Wood
was top notch. (everything glued and almost on the gear)
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce source
>
> Anyone know the currrent spruce package price for
> wings and fuselage from either Jean Peters or Wick's?
> Still waiting on pricing from Peters and just
> considering Wick's at this point.
>
> Anyone buy their spruce from Wick's? Did you have to
> provide Wick's with a cut list or did it have it in
> its files as Peters does?
>
> Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
RE: Western Aircraft Supply/Jean Peters price for the spruce. I bought just
the wood needed for the wing last November, and the price for the wood plus
shipping by air freight to Richmond, VA was $930. Air freight was much
cheaper than ground, surprisingly, and the whole order came in a 10" X 13.5'
heavy-duty cardboard tube. The wood is cut to the proper dimensions, and is
of superb quality. I think I had to buy a little more 1/4"X1/2" cap strip for
some bracing but very little. I would imagine you could have it shipped to
any decent-sized airport with a U.S. Customs office. I'll be ordering the
wood for the fuselage and tail later this year from him.
The wood isn't the cheapest, but the labor and time savings in getting it all
together, plus having it precut to size, except for length in some cases,
plus the quality of the wood, made it worthwhile for me.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Merrill C Isaacson <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm a new member of this list. Hello all. can you give the contact phone number
and an address for the Western Aircraft Supply you are speaking about. I would
like to explore getting my wood as well from this source.
Merrill
Mt. Dora, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
I'm sorry, I don't understand this posting. First, the original plans do not call
for the front pedals to be bolted to the floor, that is my point, they call for
them to be bolted at the top. Second, I do not see any problem with a pedal
return spring, every light airplane I know of has them, with a few notable
exceptions (like a Stearman, which has a balance cable). They are small, cheap,
and easy to install in any of a hundred diferent ways. What really confuses me,
though, is the statement "the hanging rudder pedal solves this [the return spring]
problem . . . we installed rudder bars fore and aft." If the hanging pedal solved
the problem, why didn't you install them? Also, the hanging pedals require a
return spring as well.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE HANGING PEDALS IN THE FRONT OF THEIR AIRPLANE, OR HAS
ANYONE TRIED IT? WHY OR WHY NOT?
nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> The original plans call for the front seat rudder pedals to be mounted
> to the floor, but this would pose a number of problems, mainly how to
> keep them upright when nobody has their feet on them. There needs to be
> a spring to keep the pedals up and all plane built with such an
> arrangement have this spring someplace, or like in a Stearman, the rudder
> pedal system is fully closed and there is a cable and pulley arrangement
> to keep the pedals up.
> The hanging rudder pedals solves this problem. We installed rudder bars
> fore and aft on ours as I saw many of the Piets at Brodhead did that and
> it looked the simplist way to go to me.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
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You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
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Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
We mounted our front pedals on the floor and installed return springs. Floor mounting
was chosen for no particular reason other than "builders choice".
Rudder bar mounted as per plans.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> Gene Rambo 11/07 10:47 AM >>>
I'm sorry, I don't understand this posting. First, the original plans do not call
for the front pedals to be bolted to the floor, that is my point, they call for
them to be bolted at the top. Second, I do not see any problem with a pedal
return spring, every light airplane I know of has them, with a few notable
exceptions (like a Stearman, which has a balance cable). They are small, cheap,
and easy to install in any of a hundred diferent ways. What really confuses me,
though, is the statement "the hanging rudder pedal solves this [the return spring]
problem . . . we installed rudder bars fore and aft." If the hanging pedal solved
the problem, why didn't you install them? Also, the hanging pedals require a
return spring as well.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE HANGING PEDALS IN THE FRONT OF THEIR AIRPLANE, OR HAS
ANYONE TRIED IT? WHY OR WHY NOT?
nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> The original plans call for the front seat rudder pedals to be mounted
> to the floor, but this would pose a number of problems, mainly how to
> keep them upright when nobody has their feet on them. There needs to be
> a spring to keep the pedals up and all plane built with such an
> arrangement have this spring someplace, or like in a Stearman, the rudder
> pedal system is fully closed and there is a cable and pulley arrangement
> to keep the pedals up.
> The hanging rudder pedals solves this problem. We installed rudder bars
> fore and aft on ours as I saw many of the Piets at Brodhead did that and
> it looked the simplist way to go to me.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Here is my take of the topic,
The "original" (1932) Flying And Glider Manual aircamper plans and the 1933
'improved' aircamper plans are very, very different. It is good to have both
plans for general knowledge that they are different and for choosing which
version best suits the builder. The two versions are smilar in stand off
apearance, but are mega different. I chose to build the 1933 version.
The rudder pedals, attachment,and swing is just one of the many differences
in the two versions. The 1932 version pedals hang and perhaps a small return
spring would help keep the cable somewhat taut. The 1933 version pedals
hinge from the floor. A spring or take up system would no doubt work well.
I used a solid method (a piece of thin wall steel tube) to connect the bar to
the pedal. That is the way the two aircampers in the museums at Oshkosh are
done. It works fine. My point is to study the differences between the two
versions and my opinion (opinions are cheap) is to build one or the other.
Maybe this will help a little.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
Here's a solution...
Don't bother putting rudder pedals in the front. They get in the way of a
non-pilot passenger and a pilot in the front seat finds them very
uncomfortable to use. I'd just leave them out if I were doing it again.
Stiring the stick is enough for most passengers. (until the pilot in back
gets sick and takes over again.)
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals
I'm sorry, I don't understand this posting. First, the original plans do
not call
for the front pedals to be bolted to the floor, that is my point, they call
for
them to be bolted at the top. Second, I do not see any problem with a pedal
return spring, every light airplane I know of has them, with a few notable
exceptions (like a Stearman, which has a balance cable). They are small,
cheap,
and easy to install in any of a hundred diferent ways. What really confuses
me,
though, is the statement "the hanging rudder pedal solves this [the return
spring]
problem . . . we installed rudder bars fore and aft." If the hanging pedal
solved
the problem, why didn't you install them? Also, the hanging pedals require
a
return spring as well.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE HANGING PEDALS IN THE FRONT OF THEIR AIRPLANE, OR
HAS
ANYONE TRIED IT? WHY OR WHY NOT?
nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> The original plans call for the front seat rudder pedals to be
mounted
> to the floor, but this would pose a number of problems, mainly how to
> keep them upright when nobody has their feet on them. There needs to be
> a spring to keep the pedals up and all plane built with such an
> arrangement have this spring someplace, or like in a Stearman, the rudder
> pedal system is fully closed and there is a cable and pulley arrangement
> to keep the pedals up.
> The hanging rudder pedals solves this problem. We installed rudder bars
> fore and aft on ours as I saw many of the Piets at Brodhead did that and
> it looked the simplist way to go to me.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
>
>Here's a solution...
>
>Don't bother putting rudder pedals in the front. They get in the way of a
>non-pilot passenger and a pilot in the front seat finds them very
>uncomfortable to use. I'd just leave them out if I were doing it again.
Right on Steve. I removed the controls from the front cockpit years ago.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
Gene,
It would seem as if the "hanging" pedals would solve the problem of
the pedals flopping over flat on the floor as floor mounted pedals
would do when your feet came off them, assuming no spring or cable
return device were used.
After looking at the amount of room available to me (at 5' 6") and John
Langston (at near 6') there was not much if any room to install a return
spring or cable interconnect. In other words, in our case, a full rudder
pedal deflection put the pedal, and the foot on it, up against the firewall.
So we decided to go with the rudder bar system as it was simple enough
to use. A hanging pedal design would work just fine but John didn't
mention it as an option and I was not aware of that style of pedals.
I guess it goes back to the fact that our drawings showed the rudder bars
and the fact that we wanted to use the Ford Model A engine to power it.
Sort of keeping it in the style of things 70 years ago.
It's not a big deal, just examine the various ways, choose and go with it.
Best wishes,
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Since I've never seen a Piet in the flesh, I'm a little worried how I'm
going to get in.
Just got to the point of installing the center struts and center section.
got the cross cables in and now fabricating the supports down to the engine
mounts. Adjusted the struts verticle to longerons, where I hope I can
leave them, and all I can see is a tight little cockpit that doesn't look
possible to get into! Put the front on a horse at the right height
for 24" wheels , and the tail down where it should be, and still it looks
tight.
My question is,,,I'm trying to picture getting in, and don't know if you
duck under the wing and get in from the side,,,or get in behind the wing,
and drop into the seat.
Kind of seems like one of these pull out steps from under the seat would be
right.
Please tell me it's no big deal.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie question: Rudder Bar versus Pedals |
The Christavia has a removable rear stick (solo and dual flown from the
front) and has no brakes in back. I figured that I could recover if
someone had his/her foot on the rudder pedal or if they grabbed the stick,
but there is not a lot you can do to get a brake to come off if they
activate it.
On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Here's a solution...
> >
> >Don't bother putting rudder pedals in the front. They get in the way of a
> >non-pilot passenger and a pilot in the front seat finds them very
> >uncomfortable to use. I'd just leave them out if I were doing it again.
>
>
> Right on Steve. I removed the controls from the front cockpit years ago.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Gage senders |
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between capacitance and resistance
fuel gage senders? Which would be best for a center section tank? Which
for a fuselage tank?
The center section tank is long and shallow, main tank short and deep. I
don't mind using a float and wire on the main tank, but I'm curious about
the senders.
TIA
Craig Wilcox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joe zw" <joezw(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale? |
i was not able to access the website.
>From: Jim Skinner <innovate(at)gibsoncounty.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, walter evans
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale?
>Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 20:40:17 -0600
>
>
>
>Walt,
>
>I have a Piet with 90 Hp Franklin for sale on Barnstormers
>(www.barnstormers.com).
>Let me know if you want more info.
>
>Jim Skinner
>
>walter evans wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I remember seeing included in a letter, that someone was selling a
>piet.
> > Can't seem to find it in the listing.
> > walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ref: I'm worried |
Walt,
It's no big deal.
Just increase the height of the cabanes 2" and add a hinged section
from aft of the rear spar and extending from the first rib to the right
of center line to the second rib left of the center line.
Lift hinged section up and let it rest on the top of the wing.
Do warm up bending and stretching exercises.
Grasp left upper longeron at cockpit and swing right leg up and onto
the longeron and hobble close to fuselage to place said foot on seat.
Grasp left and right longerons and hoist left leg up over cockpit edge
whilst leaning forward under sharp edge of rear spar.
Settle gracefully into seat and breath again.
Reach up and lower hinged section carefully down into position.
It's no big deal.
Now, if you leave the crossed brace wires on the left side of the forward
cockpit and a passenger wants to have a ride, well, now that's a sight to
behold them trying to get in. I hear tell it can be done, however... that's
why the solid braces were added from the engine mount to the upper
forward cabane fittings and the crossed wires on the left were omitted.
As for the hinged section aft of the rear spar, some have some sort of
latch and some don't saying it is a stall indicator. They say the hinged
section just floats up a few inches as the stall is entered. I would think
that your seat of the pants would say the same thing about when it
stalls or not.
And a small step with a long rope has been seen around a Piet or two.
(The better to pull it up with when seated aboard the craft.)
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Homebuilt-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Homebuilt-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Zenith-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
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Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
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continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
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You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
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Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
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Email List Admin.
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925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Rocket-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
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or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
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Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
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Email List Admin.
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925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
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Great minds discuss ideas,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Huge Apology for "List Malfunction"... |
Dear Listers,
I am so embarrassed by the List-gone-crazy tonight! I'm not sure
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In any case, I am hugely embarrassed and sorry for the ton of messages
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Great minds discuss ideas,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Gage senders |
In a message dated 11/7/00 7:40:08 PM Central Standard Time,
CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com writes:
<< Can anyone tell me what the difference is between capacitance and
resistance
fuel gage senders? Which would be best for a center section tank? Which
for a fuselage tank? >>
Craig, the resistance type fuel gage senders, are commonly called 'Direct
Current Electrical Indicators. It is the type commonly found in automobiles.
These systems consist of a variable resistor as a tank unit (with the float
attached to it), or sender, and a current measuring instrument as the
indicator. For two tanks, you will need either two gages, or a switch, to
toggle between the two tanks, with a single gage.
The Capacitance Fuel Quantity Systems, are usually used on larger aircraft,
with multiple fuel cells. This type measures the mass of the fuel, rather
than just its level in the tank. This is an electronic system that measures
the capacitance of the probe, or probes for multiple tanks, which serve as
the tank sender units...with no moving parts. One of the big advantages of
this type of measuring system is that the probes can be tailored for tanks of
all sizes and shapes, and all the probes in the aircraft can be connected to
the system integrates their output to show the total amount of fuel on board.
The big disadvantage is $$$.
I plan on using the trusty ol' stop watch, (or maybe a 1 hour, hour glass !!)
for the 10 gal. tank in the wing. However, I am including a length of clear
acrylic tubing, 1/2" OD 1/4" ID, where the fuel line is attached to the
front left cabane strut. If I'm ever sweating fuel, and I see air dropping
down thru that tube, I should have about a minute to turn final, and get on
the ground. I just don't want to ever be in that situation, but a few
crucial seconds might be all I need. The clear tubing should also allow me
to see any water, dirt, or bugs, entering the fuel system. We plan on doing
our first engine run this weekend. I can't wait to hear the pucketa,
pucketa, pucketa, of that ol' Model A !!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
ps Any comments on the clear tubing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Capacitance fuel sender |
Another plus to this sender is they can be had with there own 9v battery
power supply. A handy feature for the non elect. Ford A Piet. I'm using
the Cub type wire and cork float with a small hand mirror. PS, Chuck,
don't the feds require some form of fuel quantity indicator? Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Anyone have a list of what they've purchased in AN
hardware (bolts, turnbuckles, pulleys, cable, etc.,
that they've used on their Piet? Just attempting to
compare what I have in stock from my defunct Pazmany
PL4 project (lots of AN and high strength NAS bolts
and a small fortune in Fafnir bearings, bearings,
bearings, etc.).
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Henderson/Pavliga design |
Kirk,
The March 1990 issue of Kitplanes has the article. Grant M. reprinted it in the
BPA Newsletter (issue 45).
I have scanned the two page article and can e-mail this to you.
The two pages combined are approx. 2.5 MB.
Better yet, I could e-mail it to Richard DeCosta to include on his web page.
OK with you, Richard?
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis.
>>> Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> 10/28 7:43 PM >>>
I've been looking at the archives for more info on motorcycle wheels
as landing gear and notice Henderson/Pavliga mentioned a number of
times.
Where does one find these plans/design?
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/08/00 |
I'd have too check to make sure, but I don't think your method of fuel
measurement will pass muster. I believe (and could be wrong) that an
accurate fuel measuring system is required in all motorized flying machines.
Actually, it only needs to be accurate at two spots...full and empty, but the
system you describe is only accurate at the "OH, S--T" level.
Again, I may be wrong. But I wouldn't want to trust a few inches of tubing
BELOW the bottom of the tank to remind me that I should have landed 20
minutes ago.
Some aircraft even have translucent areas built into the tank so you can see
the actual level in the tank. Works good, accurate at all levels.
By the way, the most accurate method possible is the one you yourself
suggested..."How long have I been up here burning the hydrocarbons?" An
accurate clock is the best insurance, if you'll rely on it.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
We've got the plans and are getting the wood to start the Piet.
What kind of plywood should we get for the rib gussets? 45 or 90 deg.? We
will be sending of for wood tomorrow and need to know before we do so.
Rebecca Smith
(Pete's daughter)
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
We didn't keep a list of the hardware we have used. I can see where
there could be a wide range of hardware depending on wether one
made the one piece wing or the 3 piece wing, or the 3/4" spar or the
1" spar, used the "improved" type landing gear or the spreader bar
landing gear or even used Cub landing gear, what type hinges were
used for the ailerons and the empenage and even the type of tail
wheel and springing.
It seems there could be quite a bit of difference used from plane to
plane. I know that I experianced "future shock" as time went along
with each new hardware purchase, as in "what future purchase cost
would shock me next".
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
2 sheets of 1/16" 90 degree should get you well along.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Pete
Smith
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
We've got the plans and are getting the wood to start the Piet.
What kind of plywood should we get for the rib gussets? 45 or 90 deg.? We
will be sending of for wood tomorrow and need to know before we do so.
Rebecca Smith
(Pete's daughter)
________________________________________________________________________________
Rebecca,
Considering where the plywood is to be used, for rib gussets,
we went with the 90 deg birch variety of 1/16" thickness.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I bought 4 sheets of 90 degree 1/16"x12"x48" 3 ply which was just enough
for my wing ribs,
>
> We've got the plans and are getting the wood to start the Piet.
> What kind of plywood should we get for the rib gussets? 45 or 90
> deg.? We
> will be sending of for wood tomorrow and need to know before we do
> so.
>
>
> Rebecca Smith
> (Pete's daughter)
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merrill Isaacson" <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
Hello, to all
I must take this moment to respond with a question concerning the mentioning
of "3/4" and or 1" spars" in one of the recent inputs to this list. I have
yet to receive my plans, but have been doing much research on the
construction of the wings. My question is, what thickness of spars are
used in the 3 piece wings? and why two different thickness mentioned? would
someone please explain. I also would like to say many thanks for everyone's
input on this list, as it has greatly educated me in the process of building
a great Pietenpol.
Merrill
Piet builder, Mt. Dora Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
Thanks to all who responded to my question about the plywood rib gussets. It
looks like 90 deg. is the way to go. Are the ribs gusseted on both sides?
Rebecca Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gussets again |
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Yes
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about the plywood rib
> gussets. It
> looks like 90 deg. is the way to go. Are the ribs gusseted on both
> sides?
>
>
> Rebecca Smith
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
| From: | Tony Weeks <tony_weeks(at)juno.com> |
The old VW Beetles (1966 and older) used to have a mechanical gas gauge
with a cable to the gauge. The one in my Baja bug is very reliable. I
always like knowing how much gas the car had even before I put the key
in.
Tony
Stefan) writes:
>Stefan)
>
>Another plus to this sender is they can be had with there own 9v
>battery
>power supply. A handy feature for the non elect. Ford A Piet. I'm
>using
>the Cub type wire and cork float with a small hand mirror. PS,
>Chuck,
>don't the feds require some form of fuel quantity indicator? Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
--- Merrill Isaacson wrote:
> Isaacson"
>
> Hello, to all
>
> I must take this moment to respond with a question
> concerning the mentioning
> of "3/4" and or 1" spars" in one of the recent
> inputs to this list. I have
> yet to receive my plans, but have been doing much
> research on the
> construction of the wings. My question is, what
> thickness of spars are
> used in the 3 piece wings? and why two different
> thickness mentioned? would
> someone please explain. I also would like to say
> many thanks for everyone's
> input on this list, as it has greatly educated me in
> the process of building
> a great Pietenpol.
>
> Merrill
> Piet builder, Mt. Dora Fl
one inch is called out in the plans with routed out
areas on them to make them lighter. but a good share
of the builders are using 3/4 inch thick spars and not
routing them out. the reasoning is that even the
aerobatic planes have 3/4 inch thick spars. the
pietenpol is overbuilt and routing is a lot of work.
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
hi rebecca
I see someone said 4 sheets and someone said 2 sheets.
I vote for 2 but if you buy four that will be enough
for the leading edge also.
del
--- Pete Smith wrote:
>
>
> We've got the plans and are getting the wood to
> start the Piet.
> What kind of plywood should we get for the rib
> gussets? 45 or 90 deg.? We
> will be sending of for wood tomorrow and need to
> know before we do so.
>
>
> Rebecca Smith
> (Pete's
> daughter)
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
What is the feeling on the wing 3/4 in. spars vs. 1 in. spars?
If the 3/4 in. spars are used, should they be routed?
We recieved a full set of B.H.P. plans from D.H.P.. The full size rib plan
is signifucantly different from the plans. Should it be disregarded and a
new full size templet drawn from the plans?
Rebecca Smith
(Writen by Pete, typed by Rebecca)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Piet stuff for sale |
I thought I might throw this out at the list,, A guy from
Ebay has two sets of ribs and two steel fuses for sale.
One fuse is welded and the other tacked.
His email address is: markl(at)intercom.net
I don't think they are being auctioned at the moment.
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Merrill C Isaacson <lagom(at)earthlink.net> |
Pietenpol List
I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in on this. Not haveing the plans yet, but I
have built one other plane. I would say that you should NOT rout the 3/4 inch
spars if used instead of the 1 inch spars. But I will leave this open for coment
from the others who are better informed. I to am in the information gathering
mode. Happy building
Merrill
Mt. Dora, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing questions |
--- Pete Smith wrote:
>
>
> What is the feeling on the wing 3/4 in. spars vs. 1
> in. spars?
> If the 3/4 in. spars are used, should they be
> routed?
> We recieved a full set of B.H.P. plans from D.H.P..
> The full size rib plan
> is signifucantly different from the plans. Should it
> be disregarded and a
> new full size templet drawn from the plans?
>
>
> Rebecca Smith
> (Writen by Pete,
> typed by Rebecca)
the 3/4 spar should not be routed but are a good way
to go in cost, time, and possible weight savings. I
would use the template but tweek it to correct some of
the measurements.
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing questions |
I have recently completely both my wings. My spars are select Doug Fir. I
ripped and planed them to 3/4. Looking back I would:::
Make 4 butt ribs, 2 regular ribs and 2 end ribs for 1 inch spar, all the
other ribs for 3/4 spar. IF, IF, you are dressing your own spar material, cut
the upper side of spars to match the curvature of the ribs. Saves time and
looks more professional.
Make all steel wing fittings. It has been suggested that the lift strut
fittings be made longer than the plans so the angle will be in a more
straight line with the strut. I located the fittings on the spars and drilled
all holes with the drill press. To assemble the wing string the ribs to near
location. Glue your spar plates ( 1/8 plywood) on one side only. When dry
drill through the spar holes. Glue other sides, drill through spar holes.
Locate the center 1 in rib over the spar plates, repeat for butt and tip
ribs.
This will give you a 1 inch space between your wing fittings. When you get
to your centersection, I used 1/16 plywood for reinforcing BECAUSE I wanted
the wing fittings to fit on the outside of the centersection fittings. I had
to do a little dressing down to correct the .035 overall oversize but it
works nicely.
I would NOT rout my spars . It took the better part of two days, saved only
about 6 1/2 lbs. and made the biggest mess I've had in my shop.
It also took away the beauty of my spars. Leave off the pasta for awhile and
it will average out.
Be sure and follow the plans to the nth on the aileron. Do not cut it away
from the rib UNTIL after it is completely finished to include the hinges (
strap hinges) Piano hinge may dictate otherwise
These were a few after thoughts which I wish I had had before building my
wings. For good or bad, use what of it you want afterall it's your life up
there.
Happy building
Corky in cold La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hardware
>
>
> --- Merrill Isaacson wrote:
> > Isaacson"
> >
> > Hello, to all
> >
> routing them out. the reasoning is that even the
> aerobatic planes have 3/4 inch thick spars. the
> pietenpol is overbuilt and routing is a lot of work.
> del
>
This is some of the confusion when you first get your plans with the updated
drawings like the three piece center section drawing. Takes you awhile to
find out that people mix and match all variations for the final product.
Like when long fuse? when short? criss cross wires on the right of the
front cockpit. tubes from the front wing down to engine mount? Thats why
this group is so good, you can get all the input.
I am using the 1" routed spars, but using the three piece center section
drawing supplied, but I just changed things along the way to fit the 1"
thickness.. Not as confusing as it sounds.
ONE OF THE BIGGIES, IF I HAD THE SPARS TO DO OVER AGAIN,,, Take the spars
and the center section spars, cut them to size, mark what goes where(front
left, rear left,etc.) Snap a long chalk line, and fabricate each spar
from one end to the other, as a complete assy including hinge brackets. (put
plywood on the butt ends of the long spar, but not in the area where the
main struts attach , so you can slide the ribs on later) So you know that
you have two complete spars that are straight with zero clearance butt
joints. later after trammeling, there is no way you can't have a straight
wing. I guess if you wanted to put in dihedral you could do that at the
chalk line point very easily.
walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail hinge question |
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I am using the cast aluminum hinges for the tail and was wondering what
kind of nut to use on the screws? Locknut? I would like to use something
that would allow me to remove the screw and not have to cut a hole in the
fabric to tighten it back up, say like a blind nut/T nut but I don't
think they are AC grade. Or should I just go with the locknut. Any
suggestions out there
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Chris,
There are different kinds of aviation nutplates out there you could use.
They would use a small screw in a "wing" off the nut to hold it in place
while you unscrewed the screw out of it. Look in the Spruce or Wicks
catalogs they have em!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
In a message dated 11/9/00 8:01:58 AM Central Standard Time,
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net writes:
<< PS, Chuck,
don't the feds require some form of fuel quantity indicator? Leon S. >>
Leon, I believe the FAR you are thinking about is only for certified
aircraft. It is FAR 25.1337(b)(1). It states: (1) Each fuel quantity
indicator must be calibrated to read "zero" during level flight when the
quantity of fuel remaining in the tank is ezual to the unusable fuel supply
determined under FAR 23.959.
In other words, the only time that the fuel quantity indicator must be
accurate, is when the tank is empty !! Although it is not required on our
planes, I am able to cover this FAR with the type of indicator I am using.
My indicator is simply a piece of clear acrylic tubing attached (top and
bottom) to the front left cabane strut, in the feed line. When I see the
fuel level going down thru the tube, my tank is empty. To determine how
much fuel I have in the tank, will be done with a stop watch. During engine
break in, I will do several timed engine runs, at full power, cruise power,
low power settings,to get an idea of my Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC).
After the engine has 20 or 30 hrs on it, I'll repeat these tests, and compare
the differences.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
> I am using the cast aluminum hinges for the tail and was wondering what
> kind of nut to use on the screws? Locknut?
Chris: Nut plates are the avation grade of "T nuts" will do the job from
behind and allow you to remove hinge later. Available from all avation
hardware suppliers.
Keep Building
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
>Chris: Nut plates are the avation grade of "T nuts" will do the job from
>behind and allow you to remove hinge later. Available from all avation
>hardware suppliers.
Chris, John,
"T" nuts are not the type of nutplates that I was talking about. The
nutplates I was talking about are basically nuts with tabs on one or two
sides that are either riveted or screwed in place. I don't plan to use "T"
nuts due to the fact that no "T" nuts that I've seen include the safety
feature of a locknut, AND so far, I haven't found any way to put a lock
washer between a "T" nut and the screw!
Joe Krzes and I discussed this one day off-list, and he brought up to me
the possibility of the screw backing out of the nut and possibly jamming a
control surface! You might could argue that you could catch that in a
thorough preflight. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. If safety is a big
concern, then I wouldn't use a plain old "T" nut.
Now, having said all that, if someone knows where you can find a "T" nut
with built-in locking features, then please let me know. I'd love to use
them. They are an extremely attractive, easy way to install blind nuts and
also help out in tight squeeze area like the elevator hinges on the outside
corner of the the horizontal stabilizer!!
Have Fun!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Joe wrote:
>
>
>>
>> > I am using the cast aluminum hinges for the tail and was wondering
>> what
>> > kind of nut to use on the screws? Locknut?
>>
>> Chris: Nut plates are the avation grade of "T nuts" will do the job
>> from
>> behind and allow you to remove hinge later. Available from all
>> avation
>> hardware suppliers.
>
> in addition to those nut plates, route out the spars the thickness of
> the base on those aluminum hunges to reduce the gap space between the
> stabilizer and the elevator .
> JoeC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, November 11, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
>with built-in locking features, then please let me know. I'd love to use
>them. >Have Fun!
>Gary Meadows
Use bolts with drilled heads & saftey wire them.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, November 11, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Saturday, November 11, 2000 10:14 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
>
>>
>, if someone knows where you can find a "T" nut
>>with built-in locking features, then please let me know. I'd love to use
>>them. >Have Fun!
>>Gary Meadows
>
>Use bolts with drilled heads & saftey wire them.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
SAFETY
Mike B
________________________________________________________________________________
Rebecca,
You can use birch or mahogany plywood for the rib gussets but
if you try to bend this plywood around the leading edge you will
have trouble with it breaking as it trys to bend too sharply.
For the leading edge, if you go the plywood route, then choose
something like hoop pine plywood as this will bend around a
smaller radius.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
McCauley metal prop 7148. I know the 71 is the diameter in inches. What is
the meaning of the 48?????
________________________________________________________________________________
I believe that would be the pitch
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller
McCauley metal prop 7148. I know the 71 is the diameter in inches. What is
the meaning of the 48?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | heres a guy who sells used parts and salvage stuff |
I'm building a Pietenpol and just returned from a guys house , where I got a
really good deal on used parts. Got altimeter, rate of climb, and airpath
compuss. Hadn't talked to him in a year or so and kind of forgot about him.
It seems that he used to have a thriving aircraft salvage business, and now
that he's retired, he still has lots of parts to sell. Some at his house,
but most in a couple of barns that he has rented for years. I had gone
through one of the barns about 10 years ago and saw nothing but planes from
mostly complete to others all balled up.
If you need something, give him a call.
Barney O'Keefe 973-347-3721 ( northern NJ)
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
In one of the " Flying and glider manuals" ( forget which one , got them
from Aircraft Spruce) in the back it explains how the pitch is
determined. With a diagram it shows how it is figured out. Very
interesting.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller
>
> McCauley metal prop 7148. I know the 71 is the diameter in inches. What is
> the meaning of the 48?????
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene.Tomblin(at)matronics.com |
The 1933 flying and gliding shows the graphical method of deturming
propeller pitch . It's extreamly simple.
The radious of the propeller is on the Yaxis in inches and the Pitch is on
the X axis also in inches . A Line drawn between the point on the Y axis
(coresponding to the piont at which you want the pitch angle for) to the
pitch on the X axis form an angle that is the same as the blade angle at
the point.
Gene Tomblin
St. louis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Gussets |
Rebecca,
If you use plywood for the leading edge you will have to use 45 degree
wood so that it can take the bend without cracking. Use the 90 degree
plywood for gussets and everything else.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
Leon,
The FAA requires fuel gages on certified aircraft only, but it sure
would be nice to have one. We haven't made out tank yet, but we are
gatting fairly close. I'm thinking of using a cork float type like in a
PA-12 and other Piper's in which we'd have a glass tube with a floating
indicator hanging down, probably on the right side, by the right aft
cabane strut. I have a picture in my head, but haven't drawn it out yet.
We should make the tank this winter.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Chris,
We just used AN363-1032 lock nuts over an AN960-10L washer to secure our
hinges. There should be no need to remove the hinges in normal service.
If you feel you want to be able to take them out for some reason, use
regular aircraft nutplates riveted to a backing plate usually made of
aluminum . This is going to increase weight, however, and makes things
somewhat more complicated. We didn't go this route and would not do it
this way if we were to do it over again.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
The list of hardware would be determined by what thickness wood you use.
We built ours according to the 1934 plans and went with the 1" square
longerons, 1" thick spars, and all the other members being the same as
the drawing. As far as bolts go, we are using a lot on AN3-14A bolts.
This goes through the cabane strut fittings and longerons and things like
that where we used the .090 steel, the 1/8 " plywood on both sides, and
the 1" longeron.
These same bolts also fit the wingtip fittings on the spar. Other than
that, I'd have to go out to the plane and see just what we have.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Gussets |
Thanks John!
Pete & Rebecca
----- Original Message -----
From: <nle97(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Gussets
>
> Rebecca,
> If you use plywood for the leading edge you will have to use 45
degree
> wood so that it can take the bend without cracking. Use the 90 degree
> plywood for gussets and everything else.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
71 in diameter, 48 in pitch. Pitch is the distance the prop will travel
through jello in one revolution.
Pete Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
read 91.205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
Was leafing through one of Tony B.'s books tonite, and he said that although
the fuel indicater is required in certified aircraft, there is a
"statement" that requires homebuilts to also have a fuel quantity indicator
also.
I can find the numbers if anyone wants it.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <nle97(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Capacitance fuel sender
>
> Leon,
> The FAA requires fuel gages on certified aircraft only, but it
sure
> would be nice to have one. We haven't made out tank yet, but we are
> gatting fairly close. I'm thinking of using a cork float type like in a
> PA-12 and other Piper's in which we'd have a glass tube with a floating
> indicator hanging down, probably on the right side, by the right aft
> cabane strut. I have a picture in my head, but haven't drawn it out yet.
> We should make the tank this winter.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
Given today's lawsuit-happy society, I think anyone who is considering
building an airplane without a fuel gauge might want to consider how it would
sound from the witness stand.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel sender |
FAR 91.205 Day VFR required equipment
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Smith <psmith(at)tein.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Pitch
>
> 71 in diameter, 48 in pitch. Pitch is the distance the prop will travel
> through jello in one revolution.
>
>
> Pete Smith
Thanks Pete, I usually learn something new each day from this list. Today it
is a fun way to explain Pitch
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Buchanan" <dbbuchanan(at)sprint.ca> |
Hi,
I'm planning on building a mockup of the cockpit area from the 1932
Flying and Glider manual. I was hoping someone could
tell me the changes in the cockpit between these plans and the long
fuselage version (approximate numbers would be fine).I'm 6'4''
and about 250 lbs. I was also wondering what the gross weigt of the
aircraft is and whether it is determined by the engine being used or the
deign strenght of the aircraft. Thanks for any information you can give
me.
Brian Buchanan
p.s. dieting is an option
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
Brian,
the usual gross weight for the Piet is around 1100#, and the engine will
make a good difference, in that some engines will give you a better
HP/weight ratio, and a lower empty weight.
A well built Piet should weigh 630-650#, so that would leave you 450-470#
usable. Add in fuel and a average weight wife, and you're there! I feel like
if you had a strong, lightweight engine, then you might could up your gross
weight to 1150# maybe even 1200#, just get ready for the sink on final! The
Piet is sure a stout design, and would surely take that okay.
I am building the long fuselage Piet and I also added an inch to the rear
cockpit(as well as the front cockpit, and forward-most bay. This will give
me 3" more rear cockpit space than the original Piet design. I also added 2"
to the width - I'm about 250# myself. I've been told by more than one
experienced Piet flyer that a couple inches more width would really be nice.
I'll be doing the "Sit in the cockpit, and make engines noises" ground test
soon, I'll try to remember to post the experience to let you know.
The Piet is really a sweet-building airplane, and I've enjoyed the work
immensely, I hope your evaluation comes out positive and you join the ranks
of sawdust-covered Piet builders!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol items |
Piets,
Here's a lead on components. Located in Maryland.
Ed
*******************************************************
> What I have is two Pietenpol fuselage frames, one
> frame completely welded
> (except 3 places), and one tack welded. I did not
> do the welding but it is
> nice work. They are 4130 with the cutout for a fold
> down door like in a
> J-3. If you have ever climbed in the front of a
> Piet you will see the worth
> of t0his. I also have 2 sets of professionally made
> ribs -31 ribs in each
> set. One set has some "hangar rash" and two ribs
> have a broken capstrip. I
> also have some Piet plans . There is a J-3 fuel
> tank that I think would
> work in a Piet.
> I am on the eastern shore of MD and want $300 for
> each set of wing ribs,
> $800 for the welded frame, and $500 for the one that
> is only tacked, and $75
> for the plans, and $100 for the fuel tank.s What I
> really want is someone
> to take it all (I have become an Aeronca person) so
> I have more room and $$
> for my L-16 project. So take everything and use the
> extra stuff for trading
> material to get an engine or prop or whatever for
> $1750.
> Regards
> Tony Markl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Apologies. It's MARKL(at)INTERCOM.NET
> I saw your post on the Piet board about the parts
> for sale. Do you have an
> e-mail address for the seller or a phone number?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I had no problem with 90 degree everywhere, including the LE. It really is
a shallow bend and is easily done with 90 degree stuff.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Gussets
Rebecca,
If you use plywood for the leading edge you will have to use 45
degree
wood so that it can take the bend without cracking. Use the 90 degree
plywood for gussets and everything else.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
Brian,
We, too, are building the short fuselage. As I understand it, the long
fuselage is some 9" longer and it was made to get better weight and
balance figures with the lighter Corvair and aircraft engines -- I gues
anyway.
I am 6' tall and weigh between 175 and 185 lbs. My two partners are
about 5'8" and weigh more. I have noticed that they tend to fit
lengthwise in the pilot's seat better than I. The cockpit is fairly
roomy and width isn't a problem to any of us, but when I sit in that seat
my knees are bent upwards and my shins just clear the cut-outs inseat
back to the front seat. I did fly in a Model A powered Piet at Brodhead
five years ago and was surprised at how comfortable in was. But this was
only twice around the patch and I'm sure a good two hour flight will give
me the Heebie-jeebies. The airplane was definately built with smaller
pilots in mind and BHP was not a big man. His claim was that he could
fly it and lift a twoo hundred pound passenger in the front seat. The
first thing the pilot asked when I went up was how much I weigh as it was
a hot day and the engine was getting hot. He said we could try it, but
no garantees. We got off in half the runway and cleared the trees
easily. I hope this helps a little.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Gussets |
To all,
I did not have any trouble with the 90 degree plywood on the leading edge
either.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bending 90 Deg. Plywood |
>
>I had no problem with 90 degree everywhere, including the LE. It really is
>a shallow bend and is easily done with 90 degree stuff.
Steve E. Same here. The 90 degree stuff bends very nicely in one direction,
and is quite stiff in the other. Just test it first, then cut your
rectangular LE
pieces and butt them on a convenient rib location.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
I have to add my 2 cents on this.
Even if the regs allowed aircraft with no gas gage, I can't imagine
building a plane without one.
The stopwatch method is NOT the most accurate way to measure fuel
remaining. There are several reasons why this method can be downright
dangerous. 1. If you have an engine malfunction and get an over-rich
mixture, you may not know it until you get silence out the exhaust pipe.
2. Fuel leaks under the cowl can dump fuel overboard without you knowing
it. 3. If you are at a get together and start hopping rides, you will
not fill up prior to each flight. You will WILL lose track of your total
flight time because you will not be logging each hop around the patch.
The 3 most useless things in aviation:
Altitude above you, runway behind you, gas left on the ground.
Bob Seibert
Taylor, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
02:14:07 PM
For all who wrote in requesting copies of the BPA Newsletter --
Last night, I talked with the gentleman who originally mentioned
having a set of newsletters starting from the first issue. He has
been moving and requested that I remind him in two or three weeks and
he may be in a position to be able to locate them.
Hold on for a few more weeks and we may have success. Meanwhile, I've
been editing downloads of the list archives and CorvairCraft archives.
If they can be shrunk enough and reasonably organized, printed copies
of these may also be available. One member of the list has sent scans
of newspaper articles from Cherry Grove about BHP. All good stuff
that I can get together will be included.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Dear Listers,
With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
accepted instead of bounced back.
But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
why.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 2000 List Contributions - Only 8% So Far... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, 11/13/00 only about 8% of the total list members have made
a contribution in 2000 to support the Email Lists. Compared to previous
years, this is a very low percentage for this point in the Fund Raiser.
If you enjoy the various Lists here on the Matronics servers as well as
the high speed access to the Archives and Search Engine, won't you
consider making a contribution to support the continued operation and
upkeep? Maintenance of these Lists represents a sizeable investment on
my part both in terms of time and personal finances and the contributions
from the List members goes a long way towards breaking even on the endeavor.
Remember that on December 1st I will be posting a Contributors List that
will include the names of everyone that has made a contribution in 2000.
Won't you assure that your name will be on that list and make a
contribution today? You can use either your Credit Card via a Secure,
SSL website or by Personal Check.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
P.O. Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has made a contribution
so far! You truly make these Lists possible!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Improved Piet and the GN-1 |
I just received my GN-1 plans. Lots to compare
between those and the set from DP. With that in mind,
what is it about both versions that some like/dislike,
prefer or not? Benefits of one over the other?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Improved Piet and the GN-1 |
Ed,
I believe the GN1 uses some Cub parts or copies thereof i.e. landing gear,
control stick assy, fuel tank, and complete firewall forward. If the Cub
parts were purchased, it could add to the overall cost. If made, they appear
to be a little more complicated than the Piet parts. It uses the same
airfoil and a similar tailgroup and beyond that is a very different airplane
and perhaps heavier. Keep weighing all the information available until you
find the airplane that best suits your total mission profile. After that,
building and operating is easy and fun.!!!!!!!!!
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More tail hinge questions |
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Thanks for all the advice on installing the hinges. I guess I don't need
to make the hinges easily removable so I am using locknuts.
Another question, I have spent 3 days trying to figure out how to get the
hinges lined up and the holes drilled for the bolts. I have the
elevators and the horizontal stabilizer built up and have tried several
test installations and can't seem to get everything lined up right. Any
suggestions? Is there some way to clamp the hinges in place or other
methods that will allow me to get the hinges aligned. How about a dab of
glue to hold them on while I drill the holes?
It's times like this that realize how far I am in over my head. Someone
throw me a rope.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More tail hinge questions |
| From: | Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Thanks for all the advice on installing the hinges. I guess I don't need
to make the hinges easily removable so I am using locknuts.
Another question, I have spent 3 days trying to figure out how to get the
hinges lined up and the holes drilled for the bolts. I have the
elevators and the horizontal stabilizer built up and have tried several
test installations and can't seem to get everything lined up right. Any
suggestions? Is there some way to clamp the hinges in place or other
methods that will allow me to get the hinges aligned. How about a dab of
glue to hold them on while I drill the holes?
It's times like this that realize how far I am in over my head. Someone
throw me a rope.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Improved Piet and the GN-1 |
Ed
I too have both sets of plans and find that as I go many of the methods
used on the Pietenpol are better or at least different than the GN1. The GN1
does not provide for repositioning the wing for differing engine wieght. It
also has an aileron hinge design that is not as neat as the Piet., with gap
seals that cross though the hinge lines. The GN1 elevator has provision for
a trim tab which may be an advantage for changes in pilot weight. If I was
to start over I would build the long fuse Piet. As it is my GN/ Piet is a
mixture of both with it leaning more towards the Piet. I guess I started the
GN1 before I knew better or the difference. If you had a wrecked Piper Cub
for parts a GN1 would make more sense but then Cub parts are pricey these
days.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Improved Piet and the GN-1
>
> I just received my GN-1 plans. Lots to compare
> between those and the set from DP. With that in mind,
> what is it about both versions that some like/dislike,
> prefer or not? Benefits of one over the other?
>
> Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
I am planning to install an A65 on an AirCamper built to plans supplied by
Don Pietenpol. Does the engine mount drawing also supplied, take into
consideration CG concerns. It does not appear so. When they talk of a longer
fuselage for the lighter engines, I trust the increased length is fwd of the
CG.
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | More tail hinge questions |
Chris,,, For what it's worth,, I measured out the hinges on the
stab,centered them,
traced around with a pencil and marked the holes. Then I drilled the marked
holes,
screwed in the hinges, put the rest of the hinge on them and then lined up
the
elevators to them, made my marks, undid the hinge halfs and made sure they
were
centered on the edge,, traced around again and marked the holes and
everything lined
right up. Did the same with the rudder. Maybe I just got lucky but it worked
quite well.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris a
Tracy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More tail hinge questions
Thanks for all the advice on installing the hinges. I guess I don't need
to make the hinges easily removable so I am using locknuts.
Another question, I have spent 3 days trying to figure out how to get the
hinges lined up and the holes drilled for the bolts. I have the
elevators and the horizontal stabilizer built up and have tried several
test installations and can't seem to get everything lined up right. Any
suggestions? Is there some way to clamp the hinges in place or other
methods that will allow me to get the hinges aligned. How about a dab of
glue to hold them on while I drill the holes?
It's times like this that realize how far I am in over my head. Someone
throw me a rope.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Griffin <griffins(at)emji.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Gary,
Why not just use standard nutplates and safety wire the bolts? Maybe
not as pretty, but certainly will not back out to jam control surfaces.
Regards,
Jeff
Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> >Chris: Nut plates are the avation grade of "T nuts" will do the job from
> >behind and allow you to remove hinge later. Available from all avation
> >hardware suppliers.
>
> Chris, John,
>
> "T" nuts are not the type of nutplates that I was talking about. The
> nutplates I was talking about are basically nuts with tabs on one or two
> sides that are either riveted or screwed in place. I don't plan to use "T"
> nuts due to the fact that no "T" nuts that I've seen include the safety
> feature of a locknut, AND so far, I haven't found any way to put a lock
> washer between a "T" nut and the screw!
>
> Joe Krzes and I discussed this one day off-list, and he brought up to me
> the possibility of the screw backing out of the nut and possibly jamming a
> control surface! You might could argue that you could catch that in a
> thorough preflight. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. If safety is a big
> concern, then I wouldn't use a plain old "T" nut.
>
> Now, having said all that, if someone knows where you can find a "T" nut
> with built-in locking features, then please let me know. I'd love to use
> them. They are an extremely attractive, easy way to install blind nuts and
> also help out in tight squeeze area like the elevator hinges on the outside
> corner of the the horizontal stabilizer!!
>
> Have Fun!
> Gary Meadows
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Griffin <griffins(at)emji.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
Chris,
When I need to drill a hole in the center of a narrow piece of wood, I
use an old carpenters trick. Take a square piece of wood about 6" in
length. Drill 1/4" holes approx. 1/2" from each end and another hole in
the middle whatever size you need to drill. Glue 1/4" dowels in the end
holes. Then just place one dowel on each side of the piece you wish to
drill and the middle hole is automatically in the center of the
workpiece. If you don't want to drill through the jig, you could also
make the center hole large enough to hold a pencil and make a quick mark
down the center of the workpiece.
Regards,
Jeff
Chris a Tracy wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all the advice on installing the hinges. I guess I don't need
> to make the hinges easily removable so I am using locknuts.
>
> Another question, I have spent 3 days trying to figure out how to get the
> hinges lined up and the holes drilled for the bolts. I have the
> elevators and the horizontal stabilizer built up and have tried several
> test installations and can't seem to get everything lined up right. Any
> suggestions? Is there some way to clamp the hinges in place or other
> methods that will allow me to get the hinges aligned. How about a dab of
> glue to hold them on while I drill the holes?
>
> It's times like this that realize how far I am in over my head. Someone
> throw me a rope.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
--- Pete Smith wrote:
>
>
> I am planning to install an A65 on an AirCamper
> built to plans supplied by
> Don Pietenpol. Does the engine mount drawing also
> supplied, take into
> consideration CG concerns. It does not appear so.
> When they talk of a longer
> fuselage for the lighter engines, I trust the
> increased length is fwd of the
> CG.
>
>
> Pete
you are correct in that assumption
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Improved Piet and the GN-1 |
>
>I just received my GN-1 plans. Lots to compare
>between those and the set from DP. With that in mind,
>what is it about both versions that some like/dislike,
>prefer or not? Benefits of one over the other?
>
>Ed
>
A few thoughts on your questions:
The GN-1 has a different airfoil than the Piet,
The fittings on the two aircraft are different.
The GN-1 was designed for the 65 cont.
Finally, if one intends to use a cont engine, build the GN-1
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
. When they talk of a longer
>fuselage for the lighter engines, I trust the increased length is fwd of
the
>CG.
>
>
> Pete
NO, the increased length is at the rear cockpit aft of the CG.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Both planes are FUN. Very fun. But there are differences.
GN-1's generally have heavier empty wts. Thus you see lots
of GN-1's w/ more than the standard 65 hp Cont. The fittings
are beefier, more of them...etc. More materials, more wt.
To adjust your CG on a GN-1 you must either increase or decrease
the length of your engine mount, add ballast somewhere, or build
to the Piet plans which do allow you to position your wing appropriately
to accommodate your weight, your fuselage length, and your choice
of engine. If your CG on your finished Piet turns out out of whack, you
can move the wing to fix it. On GN-1's it's not possible to move the wing
in this fashion. They are both good airplanes, fun to build and fly. Some
just prefer one over the other.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
Measure twice and drill once. I just finished drilling/building the tail
surfaces and after measuring carefully before drilling, everything lined up
perfectly. Also, did you/are you recessing the hinges into the spar?
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris a Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More tail hinge questions
> Another question, I have spent 3 days trying to figure out how to get the
> hinges lined up and the holes drilled for the bolts. I have the
> elevators and the horizontal stabilizer built up and have tried several
> test installations and can't seem to get everything lined up right. Any
> suggestions? Is there some way to clamp the hinges in place or other
> methods that will allow me to get the hinges aligned
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
Chris. I got perfect alignment by using the guide on my router. All my
hinge slots came out straight, and of course the hinges set in the slots
straight. if using the cast al. hinges you need to recess them. The
hinges fit very tight in the 1/2X1/4 deep slot allowing you to position
them for final fit and they stay put for drilling of the holes. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
Chris,
Here is what I found for the problem of locating the tail hinges.
I'm using Vi Kapler hinges on my Piet, but this would apply to any of
them. I took a long (4') rod that was 3/16" diameter, and placed sll three
hinges one on side on it. This way you can make sure that your hinges are
all in perfect alignment and won't bind any when you install them. While the
hinges are on this rod, you can mark where you need to place them. It's one
of two techniques that's worked very well for me.
My #2 idea for placing the hinges is to make a guide block. To do this, take
a piece of 1" wide stock about 2" long, same as the longeron material and
glue two plates of 1/16" x2" x 1 1/4" plywood on either side.This will give
you a block of wood with two outside plates sticking down that will give you
a way to accurately and tightly hold the block onto your "T" section. You
can then take a hinge and perfectly center it on the guide block and drill
two holes exactly to match the where the screw holes are on the hinge. I
actually drilled the two holes oversize, and placed aluminum tubes in them
to protect the guide block from getting enlarged by the drill bit. You can
then position this block on the "T" section of the stabilizer where you want
to put your hinge, and it will be very accurately placed.
Method #1 works very well to mark the hinge locations, and then use a
drill press BEFORE assembling the stabilizer or control surface. If you're
like me, and build it all before you think to install the hinges, then some
combination of these two methods works, using a hand drill later.
I hope this all makes sense, and works for you, if you decide to try it.
I'll try to remember to take a digipic sometime.
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Jeff,
You could for sure saftey wire it! On certificated aircraft you don't
normally use those types of safety techniques unless there's a rotational
motion and potential loosening in what you're fastening. But if It looks
safer to you, and it makes you feel safer, then by all means, use safety
wire or cotter pins - either one! You've got to live with the aircraft you
build, so you've got to make sure it meets your own personal safety
minimums!
Good luck and Have fun!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Jeff,
I re-read your post, and it reminded me of one I saw a day or two ago,
about safety-wiring the bolts. I'm using the Vi Kapler hinges, and there
aren't any bolts with drilled heads to saftey wire. I'm using
screws/locknuts, since the Kapler hinges are countersunk already. I could
safety wire the nuts on, but I can't really safety bolt heads.
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
For what it's worth, I used eye bolts for the elevator hinges.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
I say build it right the first time and there is no need to reposition the
wing. Repositioning the wing isn't that simple a job anyway. The wing
struts have to be changed. All the cockpit cowling has to be remade. The
GN-1 can be made as heavy or light as any Pietenpol. I agree with Mike it
all boils down to preference. No two Pietenpols are the same even if they
are built by the same person. So build what your preference is and build it
the way you want it. Just follow safe practices.jas
>
>Both planes are FUN. Very fun. But there are differences.
>GN-1's generally have heavier empty wts. Thus you see lots
>of GN-1's w/ more than the standard 65 hp Cont. The fittings
>are beefier, more of them...etc. More materials, more wt.
>To adjust your CG on a GN-1 you must either increase or decrease
>the length of your engine mount, add ballast somewhere, or build
>to the Piet plans which do allow you to position your wing appropriately
>to accommodate your weight, your fuselage length, and your choice
>of engine. If your CG on your finished Piet turns out out of whack, you
>can move the wing to fix it. On GN-1's it's not possible to move the wing
>in this fashion. They are both good airplanes, fun to build and fly. Some
>just prefer one over the other.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
>
>Jeff,
>
> I re-read your post, and it reminded me of one I saw a day or two ago,
>about safety-wiring the bolts. I'm using the Vi Kapler hinges, and there
>aren't any bolts with drilled heads to saftey wire
I suggested safety wiring drilled bolt heads if one uses "T" nuts. That
worked on my Piet.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Mike,
Aha, I gotcha now - you safety the bolt on the nut side? Yep, that would
make the "T" nut safe! But then, wouldn't you lose the real reason to use
the "T" nut, which I though was to be able to remove the hinge bolt and thus
the hinge? Maybe I'm missing something?
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Mike,
I guess if I could read a note without somebody from this j-o-b thing, I
would have understood what you meant. Boy work sure gets in the way of Piet
building! I got it now. There's a whole bunch of ways to skin this cat! Best
not to get caught-up in just one way is what you're getting at!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Yak-List: New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Everything you need to know can be found at the following url:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
I just used the secure credit-card option. There is also a snail-mail
address for you old-fashioned types (i.e. back in the good old days when
folks wouldn't abscond with your credit card info) ;)
Jim Ivey
N46YK
Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
> and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
> clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
> messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
>
> As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
> program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
> message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
> include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
> accepted instead of bounced back.
>
> But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
> will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
> HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
> serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
> increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
>
> I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
> you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
> why.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>wing. Repositioning the wing isn't that simple a job anyway.
Jim Sury is absolutely right here. I had to reposition my wing
from 2.5" to 4.0" aft of vertical to get my rear CG within the acceptable
21" limit (aft of leading edge of wing) and it was a lot of work. I didn't
have to buy new struts but all the cockpit aluminum covers had to be
remade. Steve Eldredge had to move his wing back too on his 65 hp
Piet and he had to re-cut all those holes too. His wing is 6" back as
I recall from meeting him at Oshkosh. (nice hats too, Steve)
You don't want to move the Piet wing back ? No problem- do what Brian
Kenny of Canada did and make your 65 hp mount longer. I think he
added something like 6 or 9" so that his cabane struts would stay
straight up and down. This is really good for getting into the rear
cockpit too. So there are no fast rules for any of these engine/plane
CG combinations. Read the archives, get to Brodhead if you can with
tape measure, notebook, and camera. Talk to the guys who build and
fly them, GN-1 or Piet. Short fuselage or long, Model A or Subaru.
Doesn't matter. Get a list of Piet/ GN-1 registered aircraft from Doc
Mosher who has done a great job of compiling this list. Doc will mail
it out to you for a hundred bucks or so. (Just kidding......it's $200)
Seriously, Doc will mail this out to you for a nominal fee.......I forgot
exactly what it is, but then you can go visit or call a builder/flyer in
your area and meet, ask questions.....ask them what they would do
differently next time around. Go to a good EAA Chapter too if you
can find one locally. Find one that is active.......not where they eat
donuts and don't build squat.
One more thought on the empty weights of Piets vs. GN-1's.
You can build a GN-1 fairly light......I think Jim Sury's came in at a
really good empty weight. There are Piets that have huge empty
weights with starters, battery, full instruments front and back,
upholstery, microwave, etc. That is the beauty of building your
own though- if carrying passengers is not your thing, then you can
afford some luxuries no matter which design you choose.
PS- Did I read that post by Matt Dralle that we can now post PHOTOS ??
As in attachments ??? If so this list will become more useful yet.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
>
>Mike,
>
> Aha, I gotcha now - you safety the bolt on the nut side? Yep, that would
>make the "T" nut safe! But then, wouldn't you lose the real reason to use
>the "T" nut, which I though was to be able to remove the hinge bolt and
thus
>the hinge? Maybe I'm missing something?
>
>Gary
Yep, you are missing something. Use drilled head bolts & safety them on the
bolt side.
Mike B Piet N687 MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
>Yep, you are missing something. Use drilled head bolts & safety them on the
>bolt side.
Unless you're using Vi Kapler's hinges, with the pre-counstersunk holes,
then you could use any of the other tried and true methods, using locknuts,
or anchored nutplates with fiber locking features.
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
If using the pre-countersunk hinges, how about if you took a AN501
fillister head screw (AS&S has them starting at #8) and machine the bottom
of the head for the countersink, and there would be enough sticking up to
drill for a safety?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
> >Yep, you are missing something. Use drilled head bolts & safety them on
the
> >bolt side.
>
> Unless you're using Vi Kapler's hinges, with the pre-counstersunk holes,
> then you could use any of the other tried and true methods, using
locknuts,
> or anchored nutplates with fiber locking features.
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/13/00 9:13:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, psmith(at)tein.net
writes:
>
> I am planning to install an A65 on an AirCamper built to plans supplied by
> Don Pietenpol. Does the engine mount drawing also supplied, take into
> consideration CG concerns. It does not appear so. When they talk of a longer
> fuselage for the lighter engines, I trust the increased length is fwd of the
> CG.
>
>
>
Pete,
Have a look at the drawing for the long fuselage (included in the supplement
plans) and compare it to the short fuselage line by line. This will give you
confidence as to where the 9 3/8" are distributed. Keep the airplane as
light as you can in the back (which is challenging). Then you may need to
move the wing aft some to get the CG right.
Here is what I get when comparing. 2" ahead of the front cabane station and
5 3/8" from the rear cabane station to the tail post (2"of which is in the
rear seat back position). The reason for the longer fuselage is not
altogether engine weight. One reason for the 2" in the cockpit is because
BHP had arthritis in those years and struggled getting into the cockpit. If
the engine choices are actually weighed complete, there is not as much
difference as is publicized.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
You might should look at the archives on this issue. The longer fuselage is
NOT for CG purposes, but to increase cockpit size. You still have to either
move the wing ( a perfectly acceptable solution, usually for "coarse"
adjustments) and/or adjust the engine mount length (also acceptable, usually
for "fine" adjustments) to change the CG. I would suggest assembling and
weighing BEFORE making final cuts to cockpit coaming, if this is a concern,
so that any necessary adjustments can be made.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Doug413(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG
>
> In a message dated 11/13/00 9:13:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
psmith(at)tein.net
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > I am planning to install an A65 on an AirCamper built to plans supplied
by
> > Don Pietenpol. Does the engine mount drawing also supplied, take into
> > consideration CG concerns. It does not appear so. When they talk of a
longer
> > fuselage for the lighter engines, I trust the increased length is fwd of
the
> > CG.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Pete,
>
> Have a look at the drawing for the long fuselage (included in the
supplement
> plans) and compare it to the short fuselage line by line. This will give
you
> confidence as to where the 9 3/8" are distributed. Keep the airplane as
> light as you can in the back (which is challenging). Then you may need to
> move the wing aft some to get the CG right.
>
> Here is what I get when comparing. 2" ahead of the front cabane station
and
> 5 3/8" from the rear cabane station to the tail post (2"of which is in
the
> rear seat back position). The reason for the longer fuselage is not
> altogether engine weight. One reason for the 2" in the cockpit is because
> BHP had arthritis in those years and struggled getting into the cockpit.
If
> the engine choices are actually weighed complete, there is not as much
> difference as is publicized.
>
> Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More tail hinge questions |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Thanks for all the advice, I will give it another go.
Check out Joe Krezs router setup at
http://www.hal-pc.org/~hjkr/hingeslots.htm, great Idea, If I had it to do
all over I would use this method.
Best advice I have for new builders.
Drill all the holes you can before you build the part !!
(lesson I have learned: 4,125,022 and still counting. I wish some one
else would start learning these things instead of me)
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Smith" <psmith(at)tein.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Walt,
You are playing around with the structural integrity of the bolt (screw)
on a structural item. May be OK but suggest caution.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
> If using the pre-countersunk hinges, how about if you took a AN501
> fillister head screw (AS&S has them starting at #8) and machine the
bottom
> of the head for the countersink, and there would be enough sticking up to
> drill for a safety?
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
>
>
> >
> > >Yep, you are missing something. Use drilled head bolts & safety them on
> the
> > >bolt side.
> >
> > Unless you're using Vi Kapler's hinges, with the pre-counstersunk holes,
> > then you could use any of the other tried and true methods, using
> locknuts,
> > or anchored nutplates with fiber locking features.
> >
> > Gary Meadows
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>wing. Repositioning the wing isn't that simple a job anyway.
Jim Sury is absolutely right here. I had to reposition my wing
from 2.5" to 4.0" aft of vertical to get my rear CG within the acceptable
21" limit (aft of leading edge of wing) and it was a lot of work. I didn't
have to buy new struts but all the cockpit aluminum covers had to be
remade. Steve Eldredge had to move his wing back too on his 65 hp
Piet and he had to re-cut all those holes too. His wing is 6" back as
I recall from meeting him at Oshkosh. (nice hats too, Steve)
You don't want to move the Piet wing back ? No problem- do what Brian
Kenny of Canada did and make your 65 hp mount longer. I think he
added something like 6 or 9" so that his cabane struts would stay
straight up and down. This is really good for getting into the rear
cockpit too. So there are no fast rules for any of these engine/plane
CG combinations. Read the archives, get to Brodhead if you can with
tape measure, notebook, and camera. Talk to the guys who build and
fly them, GN-1 or Piet. Short fuselage or long, Model A or Subaru.
Doesn't matter. Get a list of Piet/ GN-1 registered aircraft from Doc
Mosher who has done a great job of compiling this list. Doc will mail
it out to you for a hundred bucks or so. (Just kidding......it's $200)
Seriously, Doc will mail this out to you for a nominal fee.......I forgot
exactly what it is, but then you can go visit or call a builder/flyer in
your area and meet, ask questions.....ask them what they would do
differently next time around. Go to a good EAA Chapter too if you
can find one locally. Find one that is active.......not where they eat
donuts and don't build squat.
One more thought on the empty weights of Piets vs. GN-1's.
You can build a GN-1 fairly light......I think Jim Sury's came in at a
really good empty weight. There are Piets that have huge empty
weights with starters, battery, full instruments front and back,
upholstery, microwave, etc. That is the beauty of building your
own though- if carrying passengers is not your thing, then you can
afford some luxuries no matter which design you choose.
PS- Did I read that post by Matt Dralle that we can now post PHOTOS ??
As in attachments ??? If so this list will become more useful yet.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Aircamper.org Supplier List |
What specifically do Orrin Hoopman and Doug Bryant
supply? I'm familiar with the other companies. Also,
anyone bought components from Replicraft?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
Orrin Hoopman supplies the same drawing as the ones from Don Pietenpol.
This is under an agreement with the Pietenpol family.
Can't help you with Doug Bryant.
We purchased the drawings for the steerable tailwheel from Replicraft and
have made a very good tailwheel unit that we are happy with.
Just got back from working on the Piet out at the airfield. Cut the leading
edge wooden blank. Actually 2 pieces, each 16 feet long that will be scarfed
and glued together into one long piece. Once it is scarfed and glued we
will route out the back side between where the ribs will attach, much like
the
old Curtis Jenny's were done.
Also did a test to see if 1/16 ply 90 deg. birch would bend around the
leading
edge without breaking. The 90 deg. ply was able to wrap around without
breaking but if we were to do it for real, would soak the plywood in warm
water first as there was some small splintering at the radius when we did it
with dry ply.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail hinge question |
Pete,
No, the fillister head screw has a tall cylindrical head with a slot
in it. Like the screws that hold the rocker cover on a continental engine.
You could cut the bottom of the head and still have 3 times the meat left
compared to a flat head screw that you were going to use.
It was just a thought for that situation. My tail is already done with #8
nutplates that will be secured with locktite (blue).
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete Smith <psmith(at)tein.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
> Walt,
> You are playing around with the structural integrity of the bolt
(screw)
> on a structural item. May be OK but suggest caution.
>
>
> Pete
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
>
>
>
> >
> > If using the pre-countersunk hinges, how about if you took a AN501
> > fillister head screw (AS&S has them starting at #8) and machine the
> bottom
> > of the head for the countersink, and there would be enough sticking up
to
> > drill for a safety?
> > walt
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail hinge question
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >Yep, you are missing something. Use drilled head bolts & safety them
on
> > the
> > > >bolt side.
> > >
> > > Unless you're using Vi Kapler's hinges, with the pre-counstersunk
holes,
> > > then you could use any of the other tried and true methods, using
> > locknuts,
> > > or anchored nutplates with fiber locking features.
> > >
> > > Gary Meadows
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircamper.org Supplier List |
In a message dated 11/15/00 10:18:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
artsfoto(at)yahoo.com writes:
> What specifically do Orrin Hoopman and Doug Bryant
> supply? I'm familiar with the other companies. Also,
> anyone bought components from Replicraft?
>
> Ed
>
>
>
Ed,
I was supplying some of the steel parts i.e. control stick assy, elevator
bellcrank, front rudder pedals, rudder bar assy, engine mount plates....
But I just became too busy and wanted to build some more complete airplanes
myself or with partners here in Wichita. Vi Kapler is now building more
parts in addition to the items he was already making i.e. alum hinges,
corvair stuff, great stuff. His parts are excellent. I think Orrin used to
supply the early version drawings and some other things which BHP had
designed and tested like a steerable tail skid...
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
Anyone have Vi Kapler's address (snail or email)
handy?
Does he have a web site? Would like to get info on
what he offers.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
09:30:06 AM
I just ordered the three piece wing plan from him. I know he also
offers cast aluminum hinges. Please take a moment to ask him for a
list of products when you contact him. I talked to him for just a few
moments and forgot.
Vi Kapler
1033 Forest Hills Drive, S.W.
Rochester, MN 55902
507-288-3322
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Butcher" <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Systems |
Hello all..
In looking at a few of the hundreds of neat pix on the Aircamper.com
page,
I see that there are a evidently a few with electrical systems, radios,
electric start, etc. So where is the battery? On the firewall? With
the
weight and balance on the Piet, it looks like one would want to put it
up front.
Appreciate any comments.
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif
(play'in with wing ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cristina Bellissimo" <csbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Systems |
I put my battery off the floor in a covered box on brackets(vented to the
outside) on the inside firewall.
Domenico
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com>
Date: Friday, November 17, 2000 10:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Systems
>
>Hello all..
>In looking at a few of the hundreds of neat pix on the Aircamper.com
>page,
>I see that there are a evidently a few with electrical systems, radios,
>electric start, etc. So where is the battery? On the firewall? With
>the
>weight and balance on the Piet, it looks like one would want to put it
>up front.
>
>Appreciate any comments.
>
>Ron Butcher
>Turlock, Calif
>(play'in with wing ribs)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Does anyone have a good source for a good deal on turnbuckles?
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Systems |
>
>Hello all..
>In looking at a few of the hundreds of neat pix on the Aircamper.com
>page,
>I see that there are a evidently a few with electrical systems, radios,
>electric start, etc. So where is the battery? On the firewall? With
>the
>weight and balance on the Piet, it looks like one would want to put it
>up front.
>
>Appreciate any comments.
>
>Ron Butcher
>Turlock, Calif
>(play'in with wing ribs)
I hung my battery from the firewall on brackets made of al angle.
I have an 0-200 in my Piet. I use a $35 garden tractor battery. Works great,
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
We breathed life into that old Model A today !! Someone said it probably
hasn't ran since before I was born, and they may very well have been right.
It was quite a chore to get it going the first time. We chocked the wheels,
and tied the tail skid to the rear bumper of Doug's truck. Doug was the
first one to prop it, untill he got tired, then it was Mike's turn, then
Billy's turn, and this went on in shifts for about 45 minutes, priming, and
using little wiffs of starter fluid. Hand propping is quite a chore, let
alone the danger of getting all wound up in the prop of a running engine.
Finally, Billy was hard at it, when she finally hit on 3 or 4 cylinders. I
was in the cockpit the whole time, with my hand on the throttle and the mag
switch. The short 5" exhaust stacks are on the left side of the engine, and
on those first few sputters, she spit fuel and oil in my face!! (Windshield
is not on it yet) After that, I kinda leaned to the right a little bit.
Three of four more tries, with additional primmer, and she spit and
sputtered, and caughed up some more stuff, and smoothed out at just under
1000 rpm. SWEET SWEET LOUD music to my ears !! I called off the oil
pressure, and it finally pegged the 10 psi oil gage I have in it. When the
throttle was advanced a little bit, she quit. We put water in the radiator,
and went thur the same ritual, and could only get it to run on the prime, but
no more...just needs some adjustments on the carb, and the sun wouldn't wait
for us to get that done. Try her again tomorrow. But hey...THE OL' MODEL A
ENGINE IS RUNNING !!!!!!
Smiling Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Music |
Chuck, Sure sounds good eh!
Are you going to keep that oil pressure gauge in there? I took the one
in my Model AA truck out. It scares me too much. The A oiling system is not
a pressure system but but a splash and gravity system even with the mods it
will likely run very low on pressure as the oil gets hotter. I have seen
older cars with a two line gauge that shows that the oil is flowing.
What carb are you using? Mags and timing? I have spent some time
wondering if the exhaust system with the short stacks affects the
performance by breathing back on valve overlap.
I hope you can get it to run as well as an A can. I can sometimes start
my truck by pulling it though (hand cranking) with switch off, choke full
on, for two revolutions and then turning on the switch and moving the spark
advance lever. It fires right off with out the starter. The original Ford
carbs have an adjustable Idle jet operated by turning the choke rod. Do you
still have that feature?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Music
>
> We breathed life into that old Model A today !! Someone said it probably
> hasn't ran since before I was born, and they may very well have been
right.
> It was quite a chore to get it going the first time. We chocked the
wheels,
> and tied the tail skid to the rear bumper of Doug's truck. Doug was the
> first one to prop it, untill he got tired, then it was Mike's turn, then
> Billy's turn, and this went on in shifts for about 45 minutes, priming,
and
> using little wiffs of starter fluid. Hand propping is quite a chore, let
> alone the danger of getting all wound up in the prop of a running engine.
> Finally, Billy was hard at it, when she finally hit on 3 or 4 cylinders.
I
> was in the cockpit the whole time, with my hand on the throttle and the
mag
> switch. The short 5" exhaust stacks are on the left side of the engine,
and
> on those first few sputters, she spit fuel and oil in my face!!
(Windshield
> is not on it yet) After that, I kinda leaned to the right a little bit.
> Three of four more tries, with additional primmer, and she spit and
> sputtered, and caughed up some more stuff, and smoothed out at just under
> 1000 rpm. SWEET SWEET LOUD music to my ears !! I called off the oil
> pressure, and it finally pegged the 10 psi oil gage I have in it. When
the
> throttle was advanced a little bit, she quit. We put water in the
radiator,
> and went thur the same ritual, and could only get it to run on the prime,
but
> no more...just needs some adjustments on the carb, and the sun wouldn't
wait
> for us to get that done. Try her again tomorrow. But hey...THE OL' MODEL
A
> ENGINE IS RUNNING !!!!!!
>
> Smiling Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Music |
Chuck,
A lyrical description. Beautiful. Felt like I was a
bystander. Will run it in our club's newsletter.
Cheers,
Leo
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> We breathed life into that old Model A today !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model A Music |
In a message dated 11/19/00 9:53:46 AM Central Standard Time,
jmcnarry(at)techplus.com writes:
<< Are you going to keep that oil pressure gauge in there? >>
I'm going to keep an oil gage in there, for awhile, at least. During early
engine runs, I just have to know what's going on with the oil pump.
<>
We're using the Model B carb (per plans), it has the float hinge
perpendicular to the Model A carb float, so it won't bounce quite as much on
rough fields. The exhaust stacks (as well as the rest of the plane) are 'per
plans', and have worked well for over 70 years. Bernard Pietenpol already
did all the exeprimenting, and came up with a very good design. I firmly
believe that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The mag is an industrial
Waco mag, and is 28 advanced, non adjustable. Shouldn't be any problems
here.
<>
Right now, we don't have the choke butterfly in the carb, and the carb main
jet is only ground adjustable.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
I would like to know where to go to get specifications of a Continental PE/90
engine. This engine came from a GPU. It has only a single sparkplug per
cylinder. I am considering this engine for the Pietenpol that I'm building.
What I would like to know is weight of engine without the flywheel. What is
the bore, stroke, etc., that would help determine the size of propellor the
engine can handle?
Any comments on the suitability of this engine for my intended purpose?
Thanks, Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Buchanan" <dbbuchanan(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | rudder bar location |
I built a mock up of the fuselage section of the long fuselage over the
weekend , widened two inches and found it to be
fairly roomy. I was wondering if there is any way to to move the rudder
bar or pedals forward of the front seat to allow for more leg room. An
extra few inches in this area would make a big difference.
Thanks
Brian Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bar location |
Brian
There is a way if you are willing to change the firewall. The firewall
can be moved forward at the bottom and or buldged out/forward to provide the
extra leg room. The engine is above this area. Depending how far forward
under the engine you go it may not ghange the side profile of the fuse. I
for one am taller than the folks BP must have known and find the front a bit
cramped.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Buchanan <dbbuchanan(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar location
>
> I built a mock up of the fuselage section of the long fuselage over the
> weekend , widened two inches and found it to be
> fairly roomy. I was wondering if there is any way to to move the rudder
> bar or pedals forward of the front seat to allow for more leg room. An
> extra few inches in this area would make a big difference.
> Thanks
> Brian Buchanan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Music |
Congratulations exactly per plans... should run
great... KIS is better.
Saludos
Gary Gower
> jmcnarry(at)techplus.com writes:
>
> << Are you going to keep that oil pressure gauge in
> there? >>
> I'm going to keep an oil gage in there, for awhile,
> at least. During early
> engine runs, I just have to know what's going on
> with the oil pump.
> < spent some time
> wondering if the exhaust system with the short
> stacks affects the
> performance by breathing back on valve overlap.>>
> We're using the Model B carb (per plans), it has the
> float hinge
> perpendicular to the Model A carb float, so it won't
> bounce quite as much on
> rough fields. The exhaust stacks (as well as the
> rest of the plane) are 'per
> plans', and have worked well for over 70 years.
> Bernard Pietenpol already
> did all the exeprimenting, and came up with a very
> good design. I firmly
> believe that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The
> mag is an industrial
> Waco mag, and is 28 advanced, non adjustable.
> Shouldn't be any problems
> here.
> < carbs have an adjustable Idle jet operated by
> turning the choke rod. Do you
> still have that feature?>>
> Right now, we don't have the choke butterfly in the
> carb, and the carb main
> jet is only ground adjustable.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying... |
Matt,
I think what you're doing is great for those of us flying and building Kolb
aircraft. You're probably saving Kolb a full time employee in tech support
just by providing the communication between builders. I know I have had a
half dozen questions answered here on the list and saved Kolb support a few
phone calls. You should forward this letter to Kolb, maybe they'd ante up,
too. It would be great PR for the TN Kolb a/c. Thanks a bunch, Matt!
Ken Broste
Building a Firestar
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> During this year's List Fund Raiser I have been receiving a number of
> very nice comments from members regarding what the Lists mean to them.
> I'm sure most everyone can echo one or more of the thoughts expressed
> below. Won't you take a moment to make a Contribution to support the
> continued operation and improvment of your Lists?
>
> A special 'thank you' to everyone that has made a contribution so far
> and for all of the wonderful and supportive comments I've received!
>
>
> To make a contribution with a credit card over an SSL Secure Web Site,
> please go to the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> or, to make a contribution with a person check, please mail it to:
>
> Matronics
> c/o Matt Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> * You helped make this dream a reality... -Terry C.
>
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>
> * Thanks for providing a quality product. -Bill C.
>
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H.
>
>
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>
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o. -Roger H.
>
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>
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for
> building and making flying safer. -Jack B.
>
>
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ewsletter. -Roger T.
>
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>
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>
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========================
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> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R DeCosta" <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | center section ribs |
Can someone please confirm that two extra ribs are needed (total of 30)
to build the 3-piece wing? In doing the nose and tail ribs, do you
generally make whole ribs and cut out the middle, or just build the nose
and tail sections in the jig?
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: center section ribs |
Richard,
Yep, you found out like I did about those extra 2 ribs!! I thought I was
done! The joint where you bolt the wing panels to the center section require
a sheeted rib on the wing panel and the center section, so they'll only be
separated by a couple of inches, but you need those end caps to stretch
fabric to.
On the partial ribs, I'm going to build the rib-let a little longer than
what I need to make sure I get a good contour, but I'm not going to build
entire rib and then cut them up - that's just too traumatic!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center section ribs |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
10:24:18 AM
This would seem like a good place to simply do a plywood cut out for a
rib or partial rib.
Mike
"Gary Meadows"
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
center section ribs
ronics.com
11/21/2000 10:02 AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Richard,
Yep, you found out like I did about those extra 2 ribs!! I thought I
was
done! The joint where you bolt the wing panels to the center section
require
a sheeted rib on the wing panel and the center section, so they'll
only be
separated by a couple of inches, but you need those end caps to
stretch
fabric to.
On the partial ribs, I'm going to build the rib-let a little longer
than
what I need to make sure I get a good contour, but I'm not going to
build
entire rib and then cut them up - that's just too traumatic!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Wait til you get to the ailerons........ |
>Gary Meadows wrote:
>........but I'm not going to build
>entire rib and then cut them up - that's just too traumatic!
Gary- Wait til you are ready to cut out your ailerons from the
wing. That just feels downright wrong.....but it works great.
Don't do what I did by installing (with bolts and screws) the wingtip
bow PRIOR to sliding in your aileron spars. Make sure all that is
installed prior to permanently installing the wingtip bow.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircamper.org Supplier List |
I bought metal fittings for the center section of the 3-piece wing. Very
nice stuff. Not cheap however.
>From: Doug413(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircamper.org Supplier List
>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:02:34 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 11/15/00 10:18:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>artsfoto(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > What specifically do Orrin Hoopman and Doug Bryant
> > supply? I'm familiar with the other companies. Also,
> > anyone bought components from Replicraft?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ed,
>
>I was supplying some of the steel parts i.e. control stick assy, elevator
>bellcrank, front rudder pedals, rudder bar assy, engine mount plates....
>But I just became too busy and wanted to build some more complete airplanes
>myself or with partners here in Wichita. Vi Kapler is now building more
>parts in addition to the items he was already making i.e. alum hinges,
>corvair stuff, great stuff. His parts are excellent. I think Orrin used
>to
>supply the early version drawings and some other things which BHP had
>designed and tested like a steerable tail skid...
>
>Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircamper.org Supplier List |
Forgot to say I bought from Replicraft.
>From: Doug413(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircamper.org Supplier List
>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:02:34 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 11/15/00 10:18:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>artsfoto(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > What specifically do Orrin Hoopman and Doug Bryant
> > supply? I'm familiar with the other companies. Also,
> > anyone bought components from Replicraft?
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ed,
>
>I was supplying some of the steel parts i.e. control stick assy, elevator
>bellcrank, front rudder pedals, rudder bar assy, engine mount plates....
>But I just became too busy and wanted to build some more complete airplanes
>myself or with partners here in Wichita. Vi Kapler is now building more
>parts in addition to the items he was already making i.e. alum hinges,
>corvair stuff, great stuff. His parts are excellent. I think Orrin used
>to
>supply the early version drawings and some other things which BHP had
>designed and tested like a steerable tail skid...
>
>Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Butcher" <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Question |
Thanks to all of you that got back to me with where you've
put batteries in your aircraft.
Ron Butcher
Turlock,Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Need Charlie Rubeck's phone number, Any Help?
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Here you go Mike;
Charles Rubeck
RR7 Box 520
Spencer, IN 47460
812-829-2069
regards-----JoeC
Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> Need Charlie Rubeck's phone number, Any Help?
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DRuGZ_NL" <drugznl(at)hotmail.com> |
joe unscribe me please on matronix
i get 50 emails a day from matronix
tnx
RuBeN
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help
>
> Here you go Mike;
> Charles Rubeck
> RR7 Box 520
> Spencer, IN 47460
> 812-829-2069
> regards-----JoeC
>
> Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> >
> > Need Charlie Rubeck's phone number, Any Help?
> >
> > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
| Subject: | Piet Project for sale |
11/22/100 - Pietenpol Aircamper Project w/two partial Model A Ford
engines. Fuselage complete ready for cover. Tail feathers ready for
cover ribs built. (no spar materials).
Located Findlay, OHIO. asking $2150. O.B.O. Glenn Franks (419)422-2560
or email gfranks1(at)hotmail.com can send pictures
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
>Here you go Mike;
>Charles Rubeck
>RR7 Box 520
>Spencer, IN 47460
>812-829-2069
> regards-----JoeC
Thanks Joe:
MikeB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Butcher" <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
Does anyone have a copy of the weight and balance spreadsheet that the
Aircamper.com
has (or had) as a download. It's been missing for a while as I
understand that his
hard disk got messed up and he lost it. I would appreciete the help.
Thanks.
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More on tail hinges |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
SUCCESS, Well thanks to a good number of you I now have my elevator
hinges mounted. I was able to adapt Joe Krzes method he shows on his web
page http://www.hal-pc.org/~hjkr/hingeslots.htm I was able to do this by
mounting my router, had to buy a router because my wife wanted to have
the edges on one of her projects rounded off "Sure Carrie(wife), If you
need a router I guess we can buy one." it's not an honorable way to get
tools but heck it works. Anyway I mounted my router to the bottom of
board and used Joe's setup and it worked perfectly on my all ready
constructed parts. A little trimming and all is good. Next I will drill
the holes using the hinges as the guides.
Thanks again.
More lessons learned, this time Good not bad.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
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________________________________________________________________________________
If you haven't got it already from someone else here it is
It is a little modified from the original
Have a great Thanksgiving
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
When shaping the capstrips in the jig for the ribs,what is
the best method,, steaming or soaking them. I am using spruce as I
know some other woods are harder to shape.
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Carl,
I took a 3' piece of 2 1/2" PVC and put a cap on one end. Fill it with hot
water and put the spruce cap strips in for about 10 minutes and they bend
just fine. Wait 20 minutes and you could probably tie a knot in them.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/23/00 8:33:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
> >
>
> When shaping the capstrips in the jig for the ribs,what is
> the best method,, steaming or soaking them. I am using spruce as I
> know some other woods are harder to shape.
> Carl
>
>
Carl,
I thru mine in the bathtub. Then had a jig made from nails in the fence
(just bent the front part); worked fine!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
Carl,
Soaking is easier and works fine. Just soak them in
the bathtub or any convenient water container. To
soften ply for bending for leading edges I soak it in
the children's wading pool.
Cheers,
Leo
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> When shaping the capstrips in the jig for
> the ribs,what is
> the best method,, steaming or soaking them. I am
> using spruce as I
> know some other woods are harder to shape.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
> Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
> give you $5.00 just for joining.
>
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
>
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I tried it a different way. I cut 1/8"x1" strips of plywood and laminated
them together on my wing jig..
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cap shaping
>
> When shaping the capstrips in the jig for the ribs,what is
> the best method,, steaming or soaking them. I am using spruce as I
> know some other woods are harder to shape.
> Carl
>
> Please visit my website at
> http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
> Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
> give you $5.00 just for joining.
> https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
>
>
> When shaping the capstrips in the jig for the ribs,what is
> the best method,, steaming or soaking them
.
> Carl
Carl,
I found that the simplest for me was to fill the tub about 3 inches deep
with straight hot water, then put the strips in to soak for about a half
hour. This covers the end, about 12-16 inches, and was very simple. (
I think I had to put a bowl or pan on them to keep them weighted, and
keep the required length under water.) I found this worked very well,
and was very simple.
Pull them out one at a time and mount in jig, for they only stay pliable
about 20-30 seconds.I let them dry for 24 hours, then began using them.
John in Peoria
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Clean Air Store" <cleanair(at)linkny.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Late Breaking News!!!!!!!!! |
----- Original Message -----
From: <K9JAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Late Breaking News!!!!!!!!!
> > This just in:
> >
> > Breaking news that CNN is revisiting the outcome of the CIVIL WAR - it
> > appears that it was too close to call and the South may still have a
> > chance. Documents were found that support the fact that some people
> > joined the wrong side - apparently they weren't aware that their states
> > were part of the South and they were fighting for the North. The line
> > between the North and South was "just too confusing" for some.
> > A recount of all the battles are being simulated with new populations
via
> > computer to see who would have actually won.
> > Right now it's just too close to call.
> > CNN
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
Ron, et al,
Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was an article on calculating
weight and balance. Basicly you just go to http://www.kitplanes.com ,
download the information and it will take out a lot of the computational
headaches from the operation.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
Question:
Can an older pilot drive an ultra light a/c without a FAA medical
certificate? This is important. Not a joke.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Wilcox" <CraigWilcox(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
As far as I know, it is just like a glider - you have to attest that you
have no medical defects which would affect your piloting, but do not need a
physical.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00
>
> Question:
> Can an older pilot drive an ultra light a/c without a FAA medical
> certificate? This is important. Not a joke.
> CMC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
You don't need a license or a medical to fly ultra lights.
I truly advise taking training in whatever you are going to
fly as they don't handle quite like a GA aircraft. take off and
landing is a lot different than what you might be use to.
The team minimaxes and fisher aircraft are probably the closest
handling to regular aircraft. they are fun though and no annuals.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00
Question:
Can an older pilot drive an ultra light a/c without a FAA medical
certificate? This is important. Not a joke.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
Ps,,,, far 103 covers ultra lights,,, has all the rules.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00
Question:
Can an older pilot drive an ultra light a/c without a FAA medical
certificate? This is important. Not a joke.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
No a medical is not needed to drive an ultralight in fact several
fellows in this area are doing just that for the same reasons.
However----- it's always good practice to to be checked out by someone
who is knowledgeable with the machine.
JoeC
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Question:
> Can an older pilot drive an ultra light a/c without a FAA medical
> certificate? This is important. Not a joke.
> CMC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/18/00 |
So long as it is an ultra-lite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - |
11/18/00
The idea behind the ultralight pilot thing is that the pilot self-certifies
that his physical condition is adequate for the intended flight. This is
the reason behind John Monnett's (and others) designing and building a
power glider. You don't need an FAA physical for that either.
Remember, no matter what your age - you may be only one FAA physical away
from an ultralight or a power glider.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>From: "Earl Myers" <LS129RR(at)raex.com>
>To: "Michael D Cuy"
>>
>>> This is a Lowrance 100 Airmap (moving map display) still in the box
>>> and has never been turned on! It cost my wife $899 new but they are
>>> less $500 now and I would sell it for, say $350 bucks just to get rid of it.
Please contact fellow pilot and good guy Earl Myers at the above address if
interested. Earl is in the Akron Ohio area.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for sale |
You should buy it for yourself. Sounds like a good deal to me. The Lowrance
is a good brand too. Had a wonderful Thanksgiving day and weekend. Didn't
get to fly until today. The air was just perfect. Not a bumb to be found.
Got in almost an hour. Just boring holes in the sky. How about your T day. jas
>
>
>>From: "Earl Myers" <LS129RR(at)raex.com>
>>To: "Michael D Cuy"
>>>
>>>> This is a Lowrance 100 Airmap (moving map display) still in the box
>>>> and has never been turned on! It cost my wife $899 new but they are
>>>> less $500 now and I would sell it for, say $350 bucks just to get rid
of it.
>
>
>Please contact fellow pilot and good guy Earl Myers at the above address if
>interested. Earl is in the Akron Ohio area.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Hardware for 3-piece wing |
Does anyone have a list of necessary nuts, bolts, and washers for
joining the center section to the main wing spars? I have the fittings from
Replicraft. I have been looking at the WICKS catalog but am confused by the
wide array of hardware available. For instance should the bolts be
drilled..stainless steel.. should the washers be of the locking type or are
lock nuts sufficient? How long should the bolts be? I have focused on
AN3-16A/15A and AN4-15A,16A,20A bolts.
Can anyone remember what they used? Is there a center section hardware
list? I would appreciate some help with this one. Thanks.
Dave Boyd, Champaign IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hardware for 3-piece wing |
I started building in June and immediately had the same questions. Made a big
ass of myself by asking the same type questions. Finally sat down and read
Tony's " Sportplane Construction Techniques". You need to get it. If you have
it already you need to read, read, measure, read again, measure again and
then order and you will probably do as I did,,,, get the wrong sizes.
No offense attempted, just suggest you read and read and read.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Hardware for 3-piece wing |
Another approach:
I assembled my airplane with cheap hardware store bolts to fit and rig.
Then I removed and measured the bolts to make up an order list for my AN
hardware. -it reduced the number of mistakes, didn't eliminate them
however. I painted all the non-AN bolts blue before I used them so I could
easily identify a non AN bolt. On subsequent projects I have collected
enough extra bolts that I don't have to worry about using the hardware store
grade stuff.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hardware for 3-piece wing
I started building in June and immediately had the same questions. Made a
big
ass of myself by asking the same type questions. Finally sat down and read
Tony's " Sportplane Construction Techniques". You need to get it. If you
have
it already you need to read, read, measure, read again, measure again and
then order and you will probably do as I did,,,, get the wrong sizes.
No offense attempted, just suggest you read and read and read.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hardware for 3-piece wing |
Dave,
I would suggest you build the components prior to ordering hardware.
Use the large AN970 washers when bolting to wood. Self locking nuts are acceptable
in place of castle nuts and cotter pins (provided they aren't connecting rotating
components). No need to pay extra for high strength or close tolerance
hardware.
Build first, then measure, then order.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "David Boyd" 11/28 9:36 AM >>>
Does anyone have a list of necessary nuts, bolts, and washers for
joining the center section to the main wing spars? I have the fittings from
Replicraft. I have been looking at the WICKS catalog but am confused by the
wide array of hardware available. For instance should the bolts be
drilled..stainless steel.. should the washers be of the locking type or are
lock nuts sufficient? How long should the bolts be? I have focused on
AN3-16A/15A and AN4-15A,16A,20A bolts.
Can anyone remember what they used? Is there a center section hardware
list? I would appreciate some help with this one. Thanks.
Dave Boyd, Champaign IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hardware for 3-piece wing |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
11:53:48 AM
I'll be starting on a three piece wing also. I plan to assemble it
with off the shelf, low grade hardware and then order after I get
everything sized that way.
Related to this. Mike Lindsay sent me a piece of scrap spar that he
got from D&E Aircraft out in Bellevue Washington. I was in past
issues of the aircraft spruce catalog as Cub replacement spars. This
is 6061-T6 aluminum. It is a very impressive piece of metal. I'm
going to clean it thoroughly and glue one of my early spar attempts to
it and test to destruction.
For all who may be interested, it is:
_____________
| |
| |---- -----| | a
---- | | ---- v
| |
| |
| |
| |
---- | | ----
| |---- -----| |
| |
-----------------------
4.56 inches high,
0.81 wide
a = .495
extrusion is 0.086 thick
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hardware for 3-piece wing |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
12:18:09 PM
I received my response about hardware and looked at the picture that I
attempted with characters. The spacing changed a bunch.
It actually looks like 2 T's stuck together bottom to bottom. Cross
bar on the T has tails hanging from each end that are 0.495 inches
high. Sort of like a Times New Roman font.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
A thought for you guys out there making sawdust and metal fittings.
Frank Pavliga gave me a hint when I started my project. He suggested
building your wood components first, then to make the steel fittings as
needed. The benefits are that when you get bored of cutting wood, you
can move on to steel, then when you get tired of making steel fittings you
can move back to wood. Also you can make fake posterboard fittings and
see how they look, fit before you draw out the part on steel.
When making fittings I took the full size plans to the copy machine, ran
off a bunch of whatever I was making and cleaned the 4130 sheet steel of oil.
Next I glued with a glue stick the paper to the sheet steel. Then you can cut,
grind, saw, drill, shear to the edges of the smoldering paper. This worked
pretty well. The other thing you can do is c-clamp a set of say four identical
fittings together and edge file or finish them. Stack drilling too is
good if you
can clamp them in a vise or drill press vise. After the first or second
hole is
drilled in all the fittings you can put two bolts thru the hole stack and
sandwich
them together for uniform finishing. The other thing is that you can see and
measure your exact wood thickness or part you need to make the fiting for-and
adjust accordingly. It's good to make extra fittings too as we all generate
some percentage of scrap. (more early on) Later on you'll get cocky and
only make the exact number you need because your scrap rate will drop to zero.
This, unfortunately, only happens toward the end :)))) (least for me)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
That's how I've been doing it and it works great. Using the cutout copies,
you
can really dial it in. Now I'm on wood again with the ribs and wings. metal
wood
metal wood wood metal la la la la la,,, ok I'm alright,,,,
grinding the pieces together really help keep them uniform.(<-- military
term )
Staying sane as possible
Carl Piet N 40044
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D
Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood and Steel
A thought for you guys out there making sawdust and metal fittings.
Frank Pavliga gave me a hint when I started my project. He suggested
building your wood components first, then to make the steel fittings as
needed. The benefits are that when you get bored of cutting wood, you
can move on to steel, then when you get tired of making steel fittings you
can move back to wood. Also you can make fake posterboard fittings and
see how they look, fit before you draw out the part on steel.
When making fittings I took the full size plans to the copy machine, ran
off a bunch of whatever I was making and cleaned the 4130 sheet steel of
oil.
Next I glued with a glue stick the paper to the sheet steel. Then you can
cut,
grind, saw, drill, shear to the edges of the smoldering paper. This worked
pretty well. The other thing you can do is c-clamp a set of say four
identical
fittings together and edge file or finish them. Stack drilling too is
good if you
can clamp them in a vise or drill press vise. After the first or second
hole is
drilled in all the fittings you can put two bolts thru the hole stack and
sandwich
them together for uniform finishing. The other thing is that you can see
and
measure your exact wood thickness or part you need to make the fiting
for-and
adjust accordingly. It's good to make extra fittings too as we all
generate
some percentage of scrap. (more early on) Later on you'll get cocky and
only make the exact number you need because your scrap rate will drop to
zero.
This, unfortunately, only happens toward the end :)))) (least for me)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
can't find the weight and bal. download on kitplane website can you send ti to
me
thanks david kowell
Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
>
> Ron, et al,
>
> Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was an article on calculating
> weight and balance. Basicly you just go to http://www.kitplanes.com ,
> download the information and it will take out a lot of the computational
> headaches from the operation.
>
> Rodger
> Piet in progress
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
for the life of me I cant find it
david kowell wrote:
>
> can't find the weight and bal. download on kitplane website can you send ti to
me
> thanks david kowell
> Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
>
> >
> > Ron, et al,
> >
> > Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was an article on calculating
> > weight and balance. Basicly you just go to http://www.kitplanes.com ,
> > download the information and it will take out a lot of the computational
> > headaches from the operation.
> >
> > Rodger
> > Piet in progress
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
Ok Piet List,
To check out the Kitplanes website concerning the W&B, here is what
I can discern: I received the following reply from Kitplanes when I was
unable to find the information on W&B. And sure enough, when I
followed it, there it was. HOWEVER, the Kitplanes website "stuff" took
up all but 2x3" of the screen, and there it was in all it's glory on the
2x3"
area of the screen. "Gee thanks" was my response to myself. But maybe
it is due to the fact that I don't know much about computers, but I was
never able to make the info full screen. So I turned the computer off and
went down to the basement and worked on the Piet. I gave up on that
2x3" screen of data and when W&B times comes along, will do it the old
fashion way.
Following is the Kitplanes response to where the data is:
"Since the publication of that article, the KITPLANES website has
been completely redesigned. Click on the tab "FEATURES" and go to
the top of the left column on that page. You will find a reference
to supplemental material and a link to click on. That will take
you to a list of the materials available and the weight and balance
calculations is in the list.
If you have any further problems, please don't hesitate to contact
me.
Julia Downie
Data Manager, KITPLANES"
----- Original Message -----
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet
>
> can't find the weight and bal. download on kitplane website can you send
ti to me
> thanks david kowell
> Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
> >
> > Ron, et al,
> >
> > Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was an article on
calculating
> > weight and balance. Basicly you just go to http://www.kitplanes.com ,
> > download the information and it will take out a lot of the computational
> > headaches from the operation.
> >
> > Rodger
> > Piet in progress
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Continental A50 Engine? |
Hey gang,
I recently got an old engine case from a guy, and I'm pretty sure it's
from an old Continental A50-3. The dataplate on this thing has seen better
days, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
Is there anyone out there familiar with this engine, and if so would they
be willing to talk it over with me offline? I've got about a million
questions, but haven't been able to turn up anything on the internet - not
even a picture!
Thanks in advance,
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
Rodger,
The speadsheet is there all right. When you click on
the 'Weight and Balance, Your Plane Spreadsheet' title
it will automatically load the Microsoft Excel program
if you have it installed on your PC. Then you fill in
the blanks on the spreadsheet with weights and moment
arms for your aircraft. You have to do that anyway
when you do it with pencil and paper. The big benefit
of using a spreadsheet is that you can play with
various fuel loads and occupant weights and get
instant C of G positions. Have another go at it for an
hour and even if you still walk away you'll learn a
lot about Excel.
Regards,
Leo
--- Rodger & Betty Childs <childsway@indian-creek.net>
wrote:
> Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Ok Piet List,
>
> To check out the Kitplanes website concerning the
> W&B, here is what
> I can discern: I received the following reply from
> Kitplanes when I was
> unable to find the information on W&B. And sure
> enough, when I
> followed it, there it was. HOWEVER, the Kitplanes
> website "stuff" took
> up all but 2x3" of the screen, and there it was in
> all it's glory on the
> 2x3"
> area of the screen. "Gee thanks" was my response to
> myself. But maybe
> it is due to the fact that I don't know much about
> computers, but I was
> never able to make the info full screen. So I turned
> the computer off and
> went down to the basement and worked on the Piet. I
> gave up on that
> 2x3" screen of data and when W&B times comes along,
> will do it the old
> fashion way.
>
> Following is the Kitplanes response to where the
> data is:
>
> "Since the publication of that article, the
> KITPLANES website has
> been completely redesigned. Click on the tab
> "FEATURES" and go to
> the top of the left column on that page. You will
> find a reference
> to supplemental material and a link to click on.
> That will take
> you to a list of the materials available and the
> weight and balance
> calculations is in the list.
>
> If you have any further problems, please don't
> hesitate to contact
> me.
>
> Julia Downie
> Data Manager, KITPLANES"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance
> Spreadsheet
>
>
>
> >
> > can't find the weight and bal. download on
> kitplane website can you send
> ti to me
> > thanks david kowell
> > Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
> >
> Betty Childs"
> <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> > >
> > > Ron, et al,
> > >
> > > Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was
> an article on
> calculating
> > > weight and balance. Basicly you just go to
> http://www.kitplanes.com ,
> > > download the information and it will take out a
> lot of the computational
> > > headaches from the operation.
> > >
> > > Rodger
> > > Piet in progress
> > >
>
>
>
> support the
> Lists
> moment to
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Continental A50 Engine? |
Gary,
I am new to the lists although I have been reading the list digests
everyday for the past couple of months. I know quite a bit about the A
series Continental engines and have info on the A-50-3. Call me at 952 432
7969 here in Minneapolis. I work nights so the best time to call is 5pm to
645 time frame.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Interesting ad on wings on-line.... |
Pietenpol Aircamper Project w/two partial Model A engines
11/22/100 - Pietenpol Aircamper Project w/two partial Model A Ford
engines. Fuselage complete ready for cover. Tail feathers ready for cover
ribs built. (no spar materials). Located Findlay,
OHIO. asking $2150. O.B.O. Glenn Franks (419)422-2560 or email
gfranks1(at)hotmail.com can send pictures. gfranks1(at)hotmail.com
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Weight and Balance Spreadsheet |
Rodger,,, I might have sent the wrong file. The file I sent I believe was a
.doc....
I'm sending you the excel file from the kitplane site. I tried it and it
works pretty
good. I had to estimate the numbers as my planes not done yet.
Here it is,,,
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rodger &
Betty Childs
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Ok Piet List,
To check out the Kitplanes website concerning the W&B, here is what
I can discern: I received the following reply from Kitplanes when I was
unable to find the information on W&B. And sure enough, when I
followed it, there it was. HOWEVER, the Kitplanes website "stuff" took
up all but 2x3" of the screen, and there it was in all it's glory on the
2x3"
area of the screen. "Gee thanks" was my response to myself. But maybe
it is due to the fact that I don't know much about computers, but I was
never able to make the info full screen. So I turned the computer off and
went down to the basement and worked on the Piet. I gave up on that
2x3" screen of data and when W&B times comes along, will do it the old
fashion way.
Following is the Kitplanes response to where the data is:
"Since the publication of that article, the KITPLANES website has
been completely redesigned. Click on the tab "FEATURES" and go to
the top of the left column on that page. You will find a reference
to supplemental material and a link to click on. That will take
you to a list of the materials available and the weight and balance
calculations is in the list.
If you have any further problems, please don't hesitate to contact
me.
Julia Downie
Data Manager, KITPLANES"
----- Original Message -----
From: david kowell <dkowell(at)cstone.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance Spreadsheet
>
> can't find the weight and bal. download on kitplane website can you send
ti to me
> thanks david kowell
> Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
> >
> > Ron, et al,
> >
> > Back in the Feb '00 issue of Kitplanes there was an article on
calculating
> > weight and balance. Basicly you just go to http://www.kitplanes.com ,
> > download the information and it will take out a lot of the computational
> > headaches from the operation.
> >
> > Rodger
> > Piet in progress
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Weight and Balance stuff |
Seems like a lot of people were having trouble finding that
excel file from kitplanes on their site so I stole it and put it
on mine so it would be easier for everyone to get. ( don't tell on me )
go to my site with the link below and then arrow down to my piet area.
at the first page you will find the link for that file. I believe that
if you click it, it will automatically download to your computer,,,
There is another link there from the weight and balance on a piet that
was sent with the plans. I put it there for reference and since no one is
making money on it I believe DP won't mind I posted it. If I hear different
then I'll remove it so grab it while you can.
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Seems like there is always something new on the net. Check out this guys
builders log of his airbike. He has some good tips on gluing and
sanding. And try not to cry at the picture of his Ultrlight Aircamper.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: Missing Information |
Dear Piet Listers, no that doesn't have the right "ring" to it.
(ok, lets try that again)
Hey Guys, just got this from Julia Downie down at Kitplanes.
This is really humbling , I sure didn't expect this, but it sure is
a BIG help. I'm still amazed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Downie <downie(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: Re: Missing Information
> Thank you for your email. As a result, we have redesigned the area
> and now when you click on the article, it opens in a new large
> window. As a bit of trivia, if you ever find this situation on
> another website, right-clock on the link and choose the option "Open
> in a new window" from that menu. I just located that myself.
>
> But KITPLANES thanks you for helping us improve our site for the
> users.
>
> Julia Downie
> Data Manager, KITPLANES
>
> Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
>
> >
> > Julia Downie
> > Data Manager, KITPLANES
> >
> > Thank you for your quick response to my question about the
> > Weight and Balance article in the Feb '00 issue.
> >
> > I followed the enclosed directions and indeed found the article.
> > However, the information is visible on a 2"x3" area of my
> > screen surrounded by the rest of the Kitplanes web site.
> >
> > No amount of trying to push various buttons, move cursors,
> > or just plain cussing has helped to enlarge the desired data.
> > Surely there is someway to move the data to full screen but
> > it is beyond me.
> >
> > Please forgive this neophyte computer user, I do not expect
> > you to hold a class in basic computer usage, so please just
> > accept the following suggestion;
> >
> > On the Kitplanes web site, when going to view previous data,
> > as in the search for the W&B data, could that final data be
> > provided full screen without the rest of the Kitplanes site
> > surrounding it.
> >
> > Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
> >
> > I remain, a frustrated computer user to the Kitplanes website
> > but a loyal subscriber to Kitplanes magazine.
> >
> > Rodger Childs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken breier" <kbreier(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Missing Information |
I was reading our emails and saw your address Creek Indian. So I have to
ask, are you guys Creek? Where are you located. I am also Creek Indian and
originally from Pensacola. (This was a message to my husband)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Missing Information
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Dear Piet Listers, no that doesn't have the right "ring" to it.
> (ok, lets try that again)
> Hey Guys, just got this from Julia Downie down at Kitplanes.
> This is really humbling , I sure didn't expect this, but it sure is
> a BIG help. I'm still amazed.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Downie <downie(at)ispchannel.com>
> To: Rodger & Betty Childs <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Missing Information
>
>
> > Thank you for your email. As a result, we have redesigned the area
> > and now when you click on the article, it opens in a new large
> > window. As a bit of trivia, if you ever find this situation on
> > another website, right-clock on the link and choose the option "Open
> > in a new window" from that menu. I just located that myself.
> >
> > But KITPLANES thanks you for helping us improve our site for the
> > users.
> >
> > Julia Downie
> > Data Manager, KITPLANES
> >
> > Rodger & Betty Childs wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Julia Downie
> > > Data Manager, KITPLANES
> > >
> > > Thank you for your quick response to my question about the
> > > Weight and Balance article in the Feb '00 issue.
> > >
> > > I followed the enclosed directions and indeed found the article.
> > > However, the information is visible on a 2"x3" area of my
> > > screen surrounded by the rest of the Kitplanes web site.
> > >
> > > No amount of trying to push various buttons, move cursors,
> > > or just plain cussing has helped to enlarge the desired data.
> > > Surely there is someway to move the data to full screen but
> > > it is beyond me.
> > >
> > > Please forgive this neophyte computer user, I do not expect
> > > you to hold a class in basic computer usage, so please just
> > > accept the following suggestion;
> > >
> > > On the Kitplanes web site, when going to view previous data,
> > > as in the search for the W&B data, could that final data be
> > > provided full screen without the rest of the Kitplanes site
> > > surrounding it.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
> > >
> > > I remain, a frustrated computer user to the Kitplanes website
> > > but a loyal subscriber to Kitplanes magazine.
> > >
> > > Rodger Childs
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "owln" <owln(at)prodigy.net> |
hey could any one answer a question for me ? in stitching the wing rib
,( 1) do you cover, stitch , then tape and finish;( 2) or cover, tape,
then stitch and finish ? I did the first on my first wing , then got to
wondering .
Thanks, Owln
http://pages.prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
>
>hey could any one answer a question for me ? in stitching the wing rib
>,( 1) do you cover, stitch , then tape and finish;( 2) or cover, tape,
>then stitch and finish ? I did the first on my first wing , then got to
>wondering .
>Thanks, Owln
Owln- I covered, put reinforcing tape over the ribs, stitched, then taped and
then finished.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Owln,
You have to apply the reinforcing tape to the fabric
before you stitch and then stitch over the reinforcing
tape. The stitching has little or no effect without
the reinforcing tape. The stitches will pull through
the fabric.
Leo
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >hey could any one answer a question for me ? in
> stitching the wing rib
> >,( 1) do you cover, stitch , then tape and finish;(
> 2) or cover, tape,
> >then stitch and finish ? I did the first on my
> first wing , then got to
> >wondering .
> >Thanks, Owln
>
>
> Owln- I covered, put reinforcing tape over the
> ribs, stitched, then taped and
> then finished.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Owen,
Cover the wing, shrink the fabric,lay a strip of reinforcing tape down,
rib stitch, then lay your surface tapes and finish doping. Get a copy of
A.C. 43.13-1B; it will help you a lot.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
| Subject: | Source of shackles |
Can anyone out there advise on a good source of cable shackles?
Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project and I hate to pay $5
apiece for them! Any suggestions?
Also, is there a good place to find an oil temp guage with about a 7
foot long capillary to go from my A-65 to the rear pit? Seems like I saw
some with long capillarys in a catalog somewhere but I can't locate it
now.
By the way, there sure is a lot of 4130 steel shavings on my shop floor
and I have only just begun to make all the fittings! This Piet is a
fittings monster! I sure am getting good with a hacksaw and file! (My
hands look like I have been refereeing a cat fight!)
Regards,
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
You can find oil guages at the regular aircraft supply houses, or at the
Stewart Warner guage site
http://www.stewartwarner.com/
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Seibert <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Source of shackles
>
> Can anyone out there advise on a good source of cable shackles?
> Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project and I hate to pay $5
> apiece for them! Any suggestions?
> Also, is there a good place to find an oil temp guage with about a 7
> foot long capillary to go from my A-65 to the rear pit? Seems like I saw
> some with long capillarys in a catalog somewhere but I can't locate it
> now.
> By the way, there sure is a lot of 4130 steel shavings on my shop floor
> and I have only just begun to make all the fittings! This Piet is a
> fittings monster! I sure am getting good with a hacksaw and file! (My
> hands look like I have been refereeing a cat fight!)
> Regards,
> Bob Seibert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
Bob
I don't remeber if I read this in the BPA newsletter or earlier on this
site but it seems to me that one of us had tried using motorcycle chain
master links as shackles. The test if I remeber right was a length of
aircraft cable shackled to a tree and a Ford Bronco. The cable and shackles
won. It would probably work although I would suggest that industrial master
links with drilled pins for cotter keys would allow for safety wiring the
link.
Test it! if you trust it, use it!
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Seibert <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Source of shackles
>
> Can anyone out there advise on a good source of cable shackles?
> Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project and I hate to pay $5
> apiece for them! Any suggestions?
> Also, is there a good place to find an oil temp guage with about a 7
> foot long capillary to go from my A-65 to the rear pit? Seems like I saw
> some with long capillarys in a catalog somewhere but I can't locate it
> now.
> By the way, there sure is a lot of 4130 steel shavings on my shop floor
> and I have only just begun to make all the fittings! This Piet is a
> fittings monster! I sure am getting good with a hacksaw and file! (My
> hands look like I have been refereeing a cat fight!)
> Regards,
> Bob Seibert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
We have a builder in the area who used roller chain connector links for
shackles . Worked good and he said they tested to about 2500 lbs. before
his fixture broke. He is on the list, perhaps he will comment. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cable shackles |
You should check with Joe C. He has the best solution I've heard of. He is on
the list and a find source of Piet info.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
The proper procedure is:
1, use a tape of a width of the rib over the covering, top and bottom
2, rib switch through the wing
3, cover switch, top and bottom with 1 1/2" finish tape.
I've used this system on my Pete and 5 AC-7 Airnockers.
Rich
own wrote:
>
> hey could any one answer a question for me ? in stitching the wing rib
> ,( 1) do you cover, stitch , then tape and finish;( 2) or cover, tape,
> then stitch and finish ? I did the first on my first wing , then got to
> wondering .
> Thanks, Owln
> http://pages.prodigy.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable shackles |
>
> You should check with Joe C. He has the best solution I've heard of. He is on
> the list and a find source of Piet info.
> Corky in La
Hi Corkey, I'll try to describe what I used. I picked up from West Marine,
or
any marine supply house, stainless eye straps. the ones with 3/16 mounting
holes. these kind of look like the omega symbol with mounting holes on each leg.
the loop portion is already formed to accept cables. I then took a 1/4" drill
rod and reformed the ends around the rod so they face each other. did this in
a
small vice using a small piece of scrap strap as a spacer to keep the two sides
from touching while reforming. to test them, I took a 1/8" cable with nicopress
end loop with thimble, fastened to shackle with standard shackle pin. at other
end I attached a turnbuckle rated at 2000#. other end of turn buckle I attached
cable with loop and looped around the trailer hitch on my Ford Explorer. other
end went through the reformed eyestrap and around a large tree. I then put the
Ford in low range 4 wheel drive and slowly applied tension until something
gave. Well, the eye end of the turnbuckle separated mid way between the threads
and the eye, the cable had 3 broken strands and the reformed eye strap showed
very little hole elongation at the pin. to my way of thinking, this adapted
"shackle" proved plenty strong for it's intended use.
I hope this explanation is clear enough.
Naturally all the normal disclaimers apply.
By the way, the last eye straps I bought were $1.50 ea
regards
JoeC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Don't know what process you're using but Polyfiber has a really good manual.
It shows their whole process including covering, stitching, taping etc.
(and what order to perform in) Also a VHS tape is available. Helped me a
LOT.
Best, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "owln" <owln(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
>
> hey could any one answer a question for me ? in stitching the wing rib
> ,( 1) do you cover, stitch , then tape and finish;( 2) or cover, tape,
> then stitch and finish ? I did the first on my first wing , then got to
> wondering .
> Thanks, Owln
> http://pages.prodigy.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
A quick hint on fittings, maybe I even read it here on the piet list.
Get a saber saw, and a fine tooth hacksaw blade. shorten the blade, and
Grind away the back until it fits the saber saw.
Use this to cut your sheet steel, and plate. Sure works better than a
hacksaw.
Bob
>From: "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: List Pietenpol
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Source of shackles
>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:46:22 -0600
>
>
>
>Can anyone out there advise on a good source of cable shackles?
>Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project and I hate to pay $5
>apiece for them! Any suggestions?
>Also, is there a good place to find an oil temp guage with about a 7
>foot long capillary to go from my A-65 to the rear pit? Seems like I saw
>some with long capillarys in a catalog somewhere but I can't locate it
>now.
>By the way, there sure is a lot of 4130 steel shavings on my shop floor
>and I have only just begun to make all the fittings! This Piet is a
>fittings monster! I sure am getting good with a hacksaw and file! (My
>hands look like I have been refereeing a cat fight!)
>Regards,
>Bob Seibert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
I use them always, I make also two aluminum "8"
shaped "washers" to center the cable, also use safety
wire.
If they stand off road racing they will stand any
cable pull force.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- John McNarry wrote:
>
>
> Bob
> I don't remeber if I read this in the BPA
> newsletter or earlier on this
> site but it seems to me that one of us had tried
> using motorcycle chain
> master links as shackles. The test if I remeber
> right was a length of
> aircraft cable shackled to a tree and a Ford Bronco.
> The cable and shackles
> won. It would probably work although I would suggest
> that industrial master
> links with drilled pins for cotter keys would allow
> for safety wiring the
> link.
> Test it! if you trust it, use it!
> John Mc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Seibert <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com>
> To: List Pietenpol
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 4:46 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Source of shackles
>
>
> Seibert"
>
> >
> > Can anyone out there advise on a good source of
> cable shackles?
> > Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project
> and I hate to pay $5
> > apiece for them! Any suggestions?
> > Also, is there a good place to find an oil temp
> guage with about a 7
> > foot long capillary to go from my A-65 to the rear
> pit? Seems like I saw
> > some with long capillarys in a catalog somewhere
> but I can't locate it
> > now.
> > By the way, there sure is a lot of 4130 steel
> shavings on my shop floor
> > and I have only just begun to make all the
> fittings! This Piet is a
> > fittings monster! I sure am getting good with a
> hacksaw and file! (My
> > hands look like I have been refereeing a cat
> fight!)
> > Regards,
> > Bob Seibert
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "owln" <owln(at)prodigy.net> |
I would like to thank ya'll for the response to my question,I am
building a ultra piet, from ragwing aero, with a vne of 65mph. Thanks to
ya'll I have found the inf. now in ac 43.13-1b, it's kinda hard to see
the first strip of tape on the rib, but there it is. in my plans it said
that I only had to stitch the bottom of the wing rib? I used the
modified seine knot,.. ?guess now that I have the tape on, now I can re
stitch, and tape again? Also I can't find on the graph for rib stitching
my vne for how many stitches per inch. I used 3 per inch, can I get any
input on this. I have the Aircraft Inspection, Repair & alterations
manual, But not much information for planes with that low vne.
Thanks, Owln
http://pages.prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan hogan <owln(at)prodigy.net> |
owln
http://users5.50megs.com/ultrapete/index/ultrapete001.htm
http://pages.prodigy.net/owln/
owln(at)prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan hogan <owln(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
I would like to thank ya'll for the response to my question,I am building a ultra
piet, from ragwing aero, with a vne of 65mph. Thanks to ya'll i have found
the info now in ac 43.13-1b, it's kinda hard to see the first strip of tape on
the rib, but there it is. in my plans it said that I only had to stitch the bottom
of the wing rib? I used the modified seine knot,.. ?guess now that i have
the tape on, now I can re stitch, and tape again? Also I can't find on the graph
for rib stitching my vne for how many stitches per inch. I used 3 per inch,
can I get any input on this. I have the Aircraft Inspection, Repair & alterations
manual, But not much information for planes with that low vne.
------Original Message------
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
Owen,
Cover the wing, shrink the fabric,lay a strip of reinforcing tape down,
rib stitch, then lay your surface tapes and finish doping. Get a copy of
A.C. 43.13-1B; it will help you a lot.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
owln
http://users5.50megs.com/ultrapete/index/ultrapete001.htm
http://pages.prodigy.net/owln/
owln(at)prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Owln,,, The stits manual shows 2 1/2 inches for areas in the prop wash and
3 1/2 inches outside of the slipstream. This is up to about 160 mph.
The 2 1/2 area should cover one station beyond the slipstream.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of owln
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stiching
I would like to thank ya'll for the response to my question,I am
building a ultra piet, from ragwing aero, with a vne of 65mph. Thanks to
ya'll I have found the inf. now in ac 43.13-1b, it's kinda hard to see
the first strip of tape on the rib, but there it is. in my plans it said
that I only had to stitch the bottom of the wing rib? I used the
modified seine knot,.. ?guess now that I have the tape on, now I can re
stitch, and tape again? Also I can't find on the graph for rib stitching
my vne for how many stitches per inch. I used 3 per inch, can I get any
input on this. I have the Aircraft Inspection, Repair & alterations
manual, But not much information for planes with that low vne.
Thanks, Owln
http://pages.prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching |
Owln,
A few comments.
1.The top fabric experiences the lift and tries to
pull away from the rib more than the bottom fabric.
Uuless the UltraPiet uses 1" wide capstrips on the top
of the ribs and has the fabric glued to it or uses
some other secure fabric attaching method you should
definitely also stitch the top fabric to the ribs.
2. Three stitches per inch is way more than you need
if you are using the Polyfiber process. According to
the Polyfiber manual 2" between stitches will be
adequate for the section of the wing in the slipstream
of the propeller and 3" between stitches outside the
slipstream area. I used that spacing on a Minimax I
built years ago and its holding fine.
3. I don't know how the ribs are made in the UltraPiet
but if they are made up of sticks with gussets you can
probably stitch the top and bottom fabric to the ribs
in one pass of the needle.
4. I will emailed you direct a copy of the rib
stitching page from the Polyfiber manual.
Regards,
Leo
--- owln wrote:
>
>
> I would like to thank ya'll for the response to my
> question,I am
> building a ultra piet, from ragwing aero, with a vne
> of 65mph. Thanks to
> ya'll I have found the inf. now in ac 43.13-1b, it's
> kinda hard to see
> the first strip of tape on the rib, but there it is.
> in my plans it said
> that I only had to stitch the bottom of the wing
> rib? I used the
> modified seine knot,.. ?guess now that I have the
> tape on, now I can re
> stitch, and tape again? Also I can't find on the
> graph for rib stitching
> my vne for how many stitches per inch. I used 3 per
> inch, can I get any
> input on this. I have the Aircraft Inspection,
> Repair & alterations
> manual, But not much information for planes with
> that low vne.
>
>
> Thanks, Owln
> http://pages.prodigy.net
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching |
I saw a full-size Air Camper at Brodhead several years ago which had
rib stitching only in the propwash areas........none anywhere else although
I believe the fabric was glued to the ribs. I suppose you could get away
with this on something like the ultra Piet, but I'd follow Roger Mann's (the
designer of the Ultra Piet) suggestions.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching |
It also depends on the covering system. Hipec, out of Edmonton, does not
need rib-stitching according to thier literature. The fabric is glued to
the ribs instead.The strength comes from the fillet formed between the
fabric and the rib itself meaning that the glue is not dependant on the
size of the capstrip. However, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel
flying a fabric covered plane without stitching.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> I saw a full-size Air Camper at Brodhead several years ago which had
> rib stitching only in the propwash areas........none anywhere else although
> I believe the fabric was glued to the ribs. I suppose you could get away
> with this on something like the ultra Piet, but I'd follow Roger Mann's (the
> designer of the Ultra Piet) suggestions.
>
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
In a message dated 12/5/00 2:31:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
> Can anyone out there advise on a good source of cable shackles?
> Looks like I need about 12 of them for my project and I hate to pay $5
> apiece for them! Any suggestions?
>
Bob,
I use motorcycle chain master link covers for shackles. Two covers (the
chain size has 3/16 dia holes in the cover but I'm not sure the chain size),
two clevis bolts, two castle nuts, two cotter pins per shackle. They tested
well and broke the test fixture at 2500 lbs. I may have just been lucky to
find a supply of about 200 of these at a local surplus store. I have since
used most of them on my planes or I would give you some. I do have 80 hours
on the first piet with these installed and am very happy with the result.
I have my metal fittings sheared to generic size or at least in strips. For
engine mount plates, I stack and weld the four sheared plates together with
my wire feed across two unused corners, layout the holes and radii, drill
holes and drill for radii cut tabs with hack saw. The four matching parts
then separate for deburr paint and installation.
I have seen one piet with the oil temp in the front pit. Hope you find an
answer.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Nolan <artsfoto(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Winter Storage/Hangarage |
Given the prices (beginning at around $200-$250/mo.)
and availability of hangars around here (CT), chances
are pretty slim that I will be able afford/find
shelter. Disassembly and winter storage would be
mandatory, thus abbreviating the flying season. Anyone
up against the same? What kind of time is involved in
derigging and removing the wings for storage? Anyone
going through this? Also, anyone know of a breathable
fabric that's waterproof and could be fabricated into
a "suit" for the Piet?
A couple of wood planes (Boredom Fighter and a 447
Rotax something or other) spend the flying season
outside at the local airport. One has a Tyvek-like
material wrapped around it, while the other has a
standard blue tarp as protection.
Should I forget it and go--cough, cough--aluminum?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching |
Owen,
A stitch spacing of 3" is more than enough for the Vne you stated. The
max is 3 1/2" and is susposed to be an inch closer in the prop wash if
you are mounting the engine in a tractor installation. If it's a pusher,
there is no need to worry.
If you did not install the reinforcing tape you can do it over the
existing stitches you have now, but it won't look quite as nice. It is
standard practice to install additional rib lacing by this method if
someone didn't do it correctly the first time. I've done it in the past
to clear an FAA violation when another mechanic rib laced too far apart
and it came out reasonably nice, but the reinforcing tape laid over
existing rib lace is going to get bunched up and look pretty rough I
would imagine. You would also have to make new stitches to replace the
existing stitches as there is no strength without the reinforcing tape.
I think I would remove what tape you have, cut out the stitches and just
start over again. It also sounds wierd that the manufacturers manual
would only call for lacing the bottom as most of the lifting force is on
the upper surfaces. Unless they are just talking about the knots.
It is standard practice to tie the knots on the under surfaces, but this
is not a requirement. When I went to A&P school in the late '60s we were
told it was standard to tie the knots on the upper surfaces on high wing
planes and lower surfaces on low winged aircraft, but I've never seen it
done this way or have I ever done it this way myself.
Anyway, you have a decision to make.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching |
I've heard of some people glueing the fabric on in place of rib lacing
but I don't think it is very wise. However small a Piet is, it is still
a powered aircraft and weighs about the same as a Cub or an Airknocker.
The Cub uses rib lacing while the Airknocker uses screws, but in both
cases there is a mechanical method to secure the fabric to the ribs.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
> I saw a full-size Air Camper at Brodhead several years ago which had
> rib stitching only in the propwash areas........none anywhere else
> although
> I believe the fabric was glued to the ribs. I suppose you could get
> away
> with this on something like the ultra Piet, but I'd follow Roger
> Mann's (the
> designer of the Ultra Piet) suggestions.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Wood and metal,metal and wood,, ribs at one end and fittings at the other,,,
sorry ,, just babbling,,,, this is what I was thinking of doing and thought
I'd bounce it here first,,,
I want to make a mock up of the front fuse for a jig for the motor mounts.
That would give me the same dimensions as the fuse and easy to measure and
move around it. I'm doing the corvair but I imagine that it would work for
all engines,,,, does this sound like a good way to go?,,,,,
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Carl- Did the same as you are thinking about. I laid out on a piece of
1/2" or 5/8" plywood the basic firewall shape and exactly where the motor
mount "tabs" come thru. Some dummy 4130 or mild steel tabs mounted
on that board can give you a decent start to a motor mount jig. The plywood
is scorched a bit by the torch, etc. but gives you a nice reference to building
up any downthrust or right (in your case left) thrust. Go for it.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Carl: A mount jig, or mock up is a great idea for many applications. I
built a mock up of my lower fuselage, then built my landing gear on it.
The landing gear then went to my fus. for permanent mounting and fit
perfectly Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
I would like any information you may have on the subject of a new category
supposingly being considered by FAA whereby one would only need a drivers
license to pilot an aircraft under a designated gross weight. Some of you
have sent me some info on this and I am asking anyone else with info to
please send me what you know.
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Thanks
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New category |
I think the "drivers license" idea is mistaken. That terminolgy has
been used by the EAA in a few articles, but not to mean that if you
have a drivers license you can fly. The Sport Pilot concept is one
that would make it easier and cheaper to get a pilot's license for
light aircraft. There would still be training involved.
Check out the November issue of Sport Aviation and the December issue
talks a little about it (it also suggests checking the eaa.org site -
click Ultralights and then Sport Pilot)
Hope this helps.
I hope that these changes do come and come quickly. Besides the
licensing thing, they are trying to make a new category of light
aircraft that would fit the Piets most of us are building. It sounds
as if the process of certification should be easier in this category.
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New category |
Here is the URL for the EAA info on sport pilot license issues:
http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/sport_pilot.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Source of shackles |
Bob,
We ran into the same problem when we started making the steel parts. I
don't know how many hacksaw blades we went through and it took forever.
One thing we did do was to mark out the flat steel sheets into rectangles
the size we would need to cut out parts. we then took the shhet to a
machine shop where they cut out the rectangles with a shear. This is one
of the very few things we paid to have done. Eventually I bought a
pnuematic die grinder and this saved a lot of time in cutting, but by
this time we had nearly everything cut out.
The landing gear also gave us fits. We made it according to the plans,
the Piper type with the split axle. Although we didn't work every week
as I was going to school, it took us two years to get this thing together
and mounted on the airplane. Bill Rewey wrote an article and sent in
drawings on a fixture he made to fabricate his landing gear. We made
this thing and had all kinds of trouble. He used a PVC pipe to run
through the axles for alignment, but when we tried this, the axles sagged
as the PVC bent. We built extentions on the fixture and ran cables with
hardware store turnbuckles to straighten things out and measured and
re-measured until we were blue in the face. Then I tack welded the gear
together and took it out of the fixture to see if it would fit the
airplane OK. It didn't even come close. Eventually, we built the thing
with the fuselage upside-down and used a steel pipe for axle alignment
and axle spacing. It went fairly smoothly after that, but what a job!
I also welded the axles in place with the steel tube still inside and got
enough penetration that when we cut the steel tube after welding, we
couldn't get the tube out and had to pay a machine shop with a big press
to drive them out.
Now I've got the steel parts off the fuselage as we're varnishing the
wood and I need to sandblast the steel and paint them to prevent further
rusting. I should have done this when I made them.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I installed my leading edge stock today ( one piece wing ) which brings the
next question. Plywood or aluminum leading edge coating? Plywood would be
easier to work with. Aluminum would have to be bent around the leading
edge...
Does anyone have an experienced view?
Thanks
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
In a message dated 12/9/00 10:48:29 PM Central Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< Plywood or aluminum leading edge coating? Plywood would be
easier to work with. Aluminum would have to be bent around the leading
edge... >>
I built the one piece wing, and I used 1/16" plywood. Worked just fine. I
made butt joints at rib junctures. The plans call out for a 9" width, but I
made it 10" width, in order to extend aft, just past that gusset that is
behind the front spar. I terminated the forward edge of the plywood on top
of the leading edge (about 1/2" of epoxy bond) and feathered the plywood into
the leading edge. After the plywood was on, I was concerned about how the
aft edge of the plywood would blend into the wing, but when the fabric was
on, and shrunk down, it pulled down and blended the aft edge of the plywood
nicely into the airfoil.
I've seen several leading / trailing edges made out of aluminum, and because
of the difference in thermal expansion rate of wood and aluminum, the fabric
material bunches up, after the wing is done.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading ddges
>
>In a message dated 12/9/00 10:48:29 PM Central Standard Time,
>horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
>
>I've seen several leading / trailing edges made out of aluminum, and
because
>of the difference in thermal expansion rate of wood and aluminum, the
fabric
>material bunches up, after the wing is done.
>Chuck G.
Don't know about that. I used alumunum for the leading & trailing edges &
did not have that problem.
MIke B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
That's the first time I've heard about the aluminum bunching on the
leading edge. I was thinking that might be the way to go as you can
purchase leading edge rolls of aluminum from Aircraft Spruce and not
have any breaks from end to end. Maybe the long span on the one piece
wing might have something to do with that as opposed to the three piece.
I'll add this question on here,,,, what did most people use for the
leading edge and trailing edge wood?
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Brusilow
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading ddges
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading ddges
>
>In a message dated 12/9/00 10:48:29 PM Central Standard Time,
>horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
>
>I've seen several leading / trailing edges made out of aluminum, and
because
>of the difference in thermal expansion rate of wood and aluminum, the
fabric
>material bunches up, after the wing is done.
>Chuck G.
Don't know about that. I used alumunum for the leading & trailing edges &
did not have that problem.
MIke B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
Gentlemen:
Using some water soluble spray contact cement, lightly coat the leading
edge metal and pieces of felt that you then "glue" lightly onto the leading
edge metal. Then put the fabric over this. The fabric will end up gluing
itself to the felt but the felt will separate from the leading edge
alumninum. This way the whole leading edge fabric floats on top of the
aluminum. Any irregularities in the aluminum due to thermal
expansion/contraction vis the wood will not be seen. Some use a synthetic
felt, others use cotton or wool, take your pick but I prefer the synthetic
or wool as it is not hydroscopic.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
In a message dated 12/10/00 1:11:53 AM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I've seen several leading / trailing edges made out of aluminum, and
because
of the difference in thermal expansion rate of wood and aluminum, the fabric
material bunches up, after the wing is done.
Chuck G. >>
Specifically, I saw this on the trailing edge of a Travel Air, here in
Wichita , and that is how the owner explained it to me. The material was
wrinkled at the juncture of the trailing edge, and each rib. I've seen this
before, on some other plane, but I don't remember what type plane it was.
F.Y.I. They had their 75 Year Aniversery of the Travel Air here, in
October, and 10 or 12 planes showed up. What an awsome sight and sound it
was, to see them arrive in formation, in groups of three or four !! Lots of
history in the Travel Air. It began production when Walter Beech, Clyde
Cessna, and Loyd Steerman were partners. Wichita has since became known as
the 'Aviation Capital of the World'.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
When is the fly-in next year?
Daryl Bortel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks all for the input.
One more question. The plans show leading edge material only on the top,
has anyone wrapped it around the underside also? Would there be any benifit
to this?
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
Chuck, I was one of the Travel Airs there, but not with a wrinkled trailing
edge. When you see that, it is a sure bet that the builder did not fully
snug up the trailing edge material. I always use cargo straps to tighten
them down and embed the trailing edge in eopxy at each rib so that it cannot
move when the fabric tightens. By the way, Travel Airs have (or are
supposed to have) a 1/4" tubing trailing edge which sometimes "scallops"
between the ribs if the fabric is too tight. Mine is still straight
(crossed fingers) but I put lots of work into it. I spoke to a couple of
Piet builders while I was at Wichita, in the large delivery hangar one night
while I was wiping oil, was that you?>
They had their 75 Year Aniversery of the Travel Air here, in
> October, and 10 or 12 planes showed up. What an awsome sight and sound
it
> was, to see them arrive in formation, in groups of three or four !! Lots
of
> history in the Travel Air. It began production when Walter Beech, Clyde
> Cessna, and Loyd Steerman were partners. Wichita has since became known
as
> the 'Aviation Capital of the World'.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading ddges |
In a message dated 12/11/00 11:23:50 PM Central Standard Time,
rambog(at)erols.com writes:
<< I spoke to a couple of
Piet builders while I was at Wichita, in the large delivery hangar one night
while I was wiping oil, was that you?> >>
Gene,
Yes, that was Doug Bryant and myself !! I believe there were a couple of
Travel Air drivers, that were building Pietenpols. Is your's the one that
is blue over silver fuse, with silver wings? NC8853? What a beautiful
airplane !
The one I saw in the hanger that evening, with the wrinkles on top of the
bottom of the wing, was behind your plane, off to the left. It appeared to
have a 'V' type trailing edge. It would make sense, that the trailing egde
moved forward, when the fabric was tightened. Except for a few wrinkles, it
was yet another beautiful Travel Air.
Please let all the Travel Air folks know that their arrival here, was
much appreciated by a great number of people !! Keep 'em Flyin' !!!!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Richard,
We had planned on wrapping our leading edge around as is done in more
current production airplanes and we are going to use 1/16th " plywood, 90
degree. I got involved in a discussion awhile back and said that it
would be necessary to use 45 degree plywood to make the bend, but I've
been proven to be wrong. 90 degree will work. However, we have since
began making our leading edge and have cut grooves where it meets the
ribs so that the plywood can lay flat with the leading edge and no
sanding will be required. We will not wrap the wood all the around but
come down to the leading edge and have the plywood glued down on a 3/8"
lip and we will also glue some wood on the bottom. The top piece of
plywood will extend to the aft face of the forward spar as is done by
Piper and others whereas the bottom plywood will only go back a little
ways (we haven't measured yet) but there will be enough room left to get
my hand in there to varnish.
One fellow at our airport said he built his ultralight somewhat this way
but the bottom plywood also went all the way past the spar and he marked
of the glued places and varnished the rest before assembly. I don't like
this as it makes it impossible to inspect the wood and to perform
necessary maintenance later on during recovery. I've been a mechanic
long enough to appreciate these things.
Anyway, this is how we are going to do it. As in the Piet drawings, the
spruce leading edge will indeed be the leading edge and the plywood will
be faired in.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
We will not wrap the wood all the around
> but
> come down to the leading edge and have the plywood glued down on a
> 3/8"
> lip and we will also glue some wood on the bottom. The top piece of
> plywood will extend to the aft face of the forward spar as is done
> by
> Piper and others whereas the bottom plywood will only go back a
> little
> ways (we haven't measured yet) but there will be enough room left to
> get
> my hand in there to varnish.
This is the way my partner and I have planned to do it too, only we plan
to use 1/32" plywood, starting above the spar, wrapping around the
nose, and back about half way to the spar, leaving room to access the
front hollow of the wing to facilitate varnishing and inspection.
We wonder if there will be any problems with this. I have thought that
this could stiffen the wing, so we must make sure it is rigged properly
while this is being glued on. I suspect if it were not rigged straight,
it could set in an improper amount of washout or washin.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I like the idea of wrapping around the leading edge to 3" on the bottom side
and to the spar on top. I was looking at rolls of aluminum in ACS, not wide
enough. I am going to check out the rools of aluminum roof flashing stock a
home building store. It comes in a variety of widths. I don't know about
thickness yet. Something .016 to .020 would be good.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
What would be the advantage of plywood on the bottom of the wing? I
thought the wing was one place the Piet is strong enough. My fear would
be to trap moisture in there and start to develop wood rot (Very Bad
Thing).
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
> I like the idea of wrapping around the leading edge to 3" on the
> bottom side
> and to the spar on top. I was looking at rolls of aluminum in ACS,
> not wide
> enough. I am going to check out the rools of aluminum roof flashing
> stock a
> home building store. It comes in a variety of widths. I don't know
> about
> thickness yet. Something .016 to .020 would be good.
> Dick Navratil
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
I just don't see any advantage at all, of extending the plywood around the
tight radius of the leading edge, and extending it under the wing. The
disadvantages would be weight, extra work, and expense. When my plans
built, one piece wing was complete, with paint, it would easily twist 4 or 5
inches. The 1/16" plywood, as opposed to 1/32" plywood, offers better
rigidity for cleaning the wing, and protection against bird strikes...on the
other hand they say Pietenpols take bird strikes from the rear !! Aluminum
has a different expansion rate than wood, and I'm sure, over time, would
loosen up the nails, especially on a one piece wing. Most aircraft aluminum
is 2024 (copper alloy for strength, but corrodes more readily). Any flashing
type aluminum is 1100 (soft, malleable, and very corrosion resistant). Some
designs use a 'D' box in front of the front spar, but the aft edges of the
plywood is glued to the top and bottom of the front spar, to help check
torsional load. On a Pietenpol, the two lift struts do that. In other
words...Follow the Plans, and you can't go wrong !!
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
08:09:19 AM
I have some flashing on the shelf in my workroom. I think that it's
"dead soft" aluminum. I had assumed (we all know where that can get
you) that being this soft would not be good for the leading edge as it
is not right for the cowling either.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
"Richard Navratil"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:
leading edges
ronics.com
12/12/2000 06:25 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
I like the idea of wrapping around the leading edge to 3" on the
bottom side
and to the spar on top. I was looking at rolls of aluminum in ACS,
not wide
enough. I am going to check out the rools of aluminum roof flashing
stock a
home building store. It comes in a variety of widths. I don't know
about
thickness yet. Something .016 to .020 would be good.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Guys- I built my wings using sections of 1/16" plywood shown as the
plans show aft of the leading edge, only on top,
and in retrospect would do it no other way if given the chance
again. 3/32" or soft aluminum, I believe, would deform more than you
want. Also, skip the felt padding- you just don't need it. That is meant
for banged up older alum. leading edges and for planes where the transistion
isn't as smooth as the Piet plans provide for. Don't make more work out
of this than there already is.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Just couldn't pass up sending this to the group.....
Ho! Ho! Ho1
Santa was informed by the FAA that he was due a check
flight. On the
appointed day, the inspector showed up and went over Santa's
sleigh and
gave it passing. Then Santa got in the sleigh for the check
flight
followed by the inspector toting a shotgun. Santa asked "
what's the
shotgun for ?", the inspector replied "I'm not really
supposed to say
... but you're going to lose one on take off".
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
I understand, and the plans suggest , that the original Piet's leading edge
was made with Quaker Oats' boxes glued to the leading edge and varnished.
Is this right guys?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
> Guys- I built my wings using sections of 1/16" plywood shown as the
> plans show aft of the leading edge, only on top,
> and in retrospect would do it no other way if given the chance
> again. 3/32" or soft aluminum, I believe, would deform more than you
> want. Also, skip the felt padding- you just don't need it. That is
meant
> for banged up older alum. leading edges and for planes where the
transistion
> isn't as smooth as the Piet plans provide for. Don't make more work out
> of this than there already is.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello friends
Now my Piet fuselage is almost complete, and the tail
group 60 % , i am just waiting for the autorization
from de DGAC (the FAA in Mexico) for the Piet
construction, and i need some help from you, they
asking me the Corvair engine maintenance manual, and
the serial number of the aircraft.I think that the
serial number . Anyone of you know where i can get the
manual?, any web direccion, phone, company. etc. So
any information about the serial number?
Thanks in advance..
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Javier,,,, You can get manuals, part catalogs, and just about anything you
need from Clark's Corvair, 400 Mohawk Trail, Shelburne Falls, Mass. 01370
the phone number is 413 625 9776 website is www.corvair.com.
For the serial number, I used the number assigned to my plans from
Don Pietenpol. If your converting a corvair,,, William Wynne is a really
good source for info on how to do it right. His website is
http://www.flycorvair.com/..
Hope this helps,,
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of javier
cruz
Subject: Pietenpol-List: help piets
Hello friends
Now my Piet fuselage is almost complete, and the tail
group 60 % , i am just waiting for the autorization
from de DGAC (the FAA in Mexico) for the Piet
construction, and i need some help from you, they
asking me the Corvair engine maintenance manual, and
the serial number of the aircraft.I think that the
serial number . Anyone of you know where i can get the
manual?, any web direccion, phone, company. etc. So
any information about the serial number?
Thanks in advance..
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Powning <leopowning(at)yahoo.com> |
Javier,
The serial number for a homebuilt is normally the
plans serial number.
Cheers,
Leo
--- javier cruz wrote:
>
>
> Hello friends
>
> Now my Piet fuselage is almost complete, and the
> tail
> group 60 % , i am just waiting for the autorization
> from de DGAC (the FAA in Mexico) for the Piet
> construction, and i need some help from you, they
> asking me the Corvair engine maintenance manual, and
> the serial number of the aircraft.I think that the
> serial number . Anyone of you know where i can get
> the
> manual?, any web direccion, phone, company. etc. So
> any information about the serial number?
>
>
> Thanks in advance..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
This is correct. There are a number of "old-timers" in EAA chapter 25 in Minneapolis
who knew Bernard well and they have confirmed this.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "walter evans" 12/13 8:48 PM >>>
I understand, and the plans suggest , that the original Piet's leading edge
was made with Quaker Oats' boxes glued to the leading edge and varnished.
Is this right guys?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
> Guys- I built my wings using sections of 1/16" plywood shown as the
> plans show aft of the leading edge, only on top,
> and in retrospect would do it no other way if given the chance
> again. 3/32" or soft aluminum, I believe, would deform more than you
> want. Also, skip the felt padding- you just don't need it. That is
meant
> for banged up older alum. leading edges and for planes where the
transistion
> isn't as smooth as the Piet plans provide for. Don't make more work out
> of this than there already is.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Chris,
The one piece wing is quite strong and although the leading edge plywood
does stiffen things up a bit, its main purpose is to add protection
against bird strikes. Plywood on the bottom of the wing would add
protection in that area. As the under camber of the wing at the leading
edge is short, the plywood would only extend back as far as it goes down
and moisture would not be trapped in there at all. Wood rot is a serious
concern and of all thie wooden wings I've recovered. wooden trailing and
leading edges arer always rotten which isn't too comforting. I inyend to
apply a lot of varnish to ours and hope for the best, but I still know
that when it is going to be recovered, some rotten wood will have to be
replaced.
We opted to go with a wooden leading and trailing edge for various
reasons, but there has been a lot of comments lately onusing aluminum and
that this can cause problems due to uneven expansion, bunching up, etc.
There should be know problems with using aluminum except that it's a
little more prone to collect moisture and cause the ribs to rot -- this
is no worse than rotting wood leading edges. The biggest problem with
bunching up aluminum or the leading or trailing edge not laying flat
isn't due to expansion differential, but from improper installation.
When you lay down aluminum it is important that it be laid absolutely
flat. Although it seems stiff, aluminum or any other metal will try to
warp or not lay flat when you try to lay it out. It's easier to show on
a metal airplane, but if you look at a plane with metal skin, sometimes
you will see what looks like a little pillow between the rivet lines at
bulkheads and stringers. This is called "oil canning" and it is exactly
the same problem that causes an aluminum leading edge to look funny. You
have really got to force the metal to lay flat during installation, don't
let it bunch up. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, but it
can be done. Just be patient.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
I used an interesting method to get teh aluminum LE's around the
Christavia wing. First off, the plans call for 0.020" 2024. 6061 is a lot
cheaper so after checking with the designer, I decided to go with
0.025" 6061 and live witt the weight penalty.
To get the LE's to wrap around and lay flat, I built up 4 blocks out of
3/4" x 5" oak that had a section similar to the pi symbol (flat top, of
course) and about 8" long. These blocks were placed behind the main spar
so that they would sit above the drag/anti-drag wires and wouldn't crush
the corner of the spars. The aluminum was cut to size and place over the
LE with the centerline resting on the LE stringer. Clamps are used to hold
it in place e at approximately 90 degrees to the cordline. Cargo tie-down
straps are place over the Aluminum and around the 4 blocks. I used 3' and
4' lengths of aluminum so my blocks were place 12" to 16" apart). The
cargostraps were pulled tight through the shackle forcing the aluminum to
start taking on the curve. The shackles were then tightened evenly so that
the LE pulled down over the LE. You can get it so tight that you start
seeing the intent from the ribs form in the aluminum and they are all
perfectly tight to the ribs. It took me 2 days to get the first onw on but
only one day to get the other 7 in place.
If you nail to the spars make sure you drill through the aluminum forst.
It will prevent cracking starting from the initial tear of the nail
penatrating the aluminum and it will save you dozens of nails. Those
little brass nails only penatrate the aluminum about 50% of the time. The
rest of the time they just bend over!
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Chris,
> The one piece wing is quite strong and although the leading edge plywood
> does stiffen things up a bit, its main purpose is to add protection
> against bird strikes. Plywood on the bottom of the wing would add
> protection in that area. As the under camber of the wing at the leading
> edge is short, the plywood would only extend back as far as it goes down
> and moisture would not be trapped in there at all. Wood rot is a serious
> concern and of all thie wooden wings I've recovered. wooden trailing and
> leading edges arer always rotten which isn't too comforting. I inyend to
> apply a lot of varnish to ours and hope for the best, but I still know
> that when it is going to be recovered, some rotten wood will have to be
> replaced.
> We opted to go with a wooden leading and trailing edge for various
> reasons, but there has been a lot of comments lately onusing aluminum and
> that this can cause problems due to uneven expansion, bunching up, etc.
> There should be know problems with using aluminum except that it's a
> little more prone to collect moisture and cause the ribs to rot -- this
> is no worse than rotting wood leading edges. The biggest problem with
> bunching up aluminum or the leading or trailing edge not laying flat
> isn't due to expansion differential, but from improper installation.
> When you lay down aluminum it is important that it be laid absolutely
> flat. Although it seems stiff, aluminum or any other metal will try to
> warp or not lay flat when you try to lay it out. It's easier to show on
> a metal airplane, but if you look at a plane with metal skin, sometimes
> you will see what looks like a little pillow between the rivet lines at
> bulkheads and stringers. This is called "oil canning" and it is exactly
> the same problem that causes an aluminum leading edge to look funny. You
> have really got to force the metal to lay flat during installation, don't
> let it bunch up. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, but it
> can be done. Just be patient.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bushing Material |
Here is a quick, reasonably dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway:
I'm ordering tubing, flat steel, etc. to make metal parts, and I came to the
bushing material for the controls, and I see 1/4", 3/8" I assume that these
are OD and not ID measurments?
thanks,
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Material |
If it's tubing like from an aircraft catalog, yes this is OD. So between
that and the wall thickness that is listed , you can figure out ID. Some
catalogs list ID.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bushing Material
>
> Here is a quick, reasonably dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway:
>
> I'm ordering tubing, flat steel, etc. to make metal parts, and I came to
the
> bushing material for the controls, and I see 1/4", 3/8" I assume that
these
> are OD and not ID measurments?
>
> thanks,
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Experimental aircraft and geared corvair for sale |
Posting this for a friend...His "flying saucer" that has a geared Corvair on
similar Corvair that is on a Piet.
Just putting out feelers. Any interest you can email me to get in touch
with him.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary L Bell" <glbell(at)midohio.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: More Information on Covair |
Mr. Pietenpol
My system was wiped out and if you have sent me a reply I did'nt get
it. Could you send it again?
Thank You
Gary Bell
Mr. Pietenpol
I ordered a set of plans from you last year. I received a
construction booklet, drawings for the 3 piece wing, Corvair engine
mount and prop hub, extended fuselage and the orignal drawings. I would
like to know if there is any drawings or information other than what is
in the construction manual on Corvair engines. For exampel how to build
the intake manifold or the the cooling system with the blower fan
engine. I talked to Mr Vi kapler and he told me to give you a call. My
fuselage is almost complete on the landing gear with the tail fethers
bolted on. So it is almost time to start the engine mount ant the fire
wall foward stuff.
Thank You for your help
Gary Bell
Pietenpol Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
I am building a gn-1 and am about to build the motor mount and will be using
a 85 cont. The plans call for a 10 and 1/2 inch mount and I wonder if
anyone has any experience with what length would be best. They also say you
can use a j-3 mount which is about 7 or 8 inches. Any help would be
appreciated.
Ken a Iowa farmer where the snow is deep
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | "Flying with Grandpa Bernie" |
The Fall 2000 issue of "To Fly" which is the official membership
publication of the Sport Aviation Association carries a two-page article
"Flying with Grandpa Bernie" written by Linda (Pietenpol) Kelley.
In addition to the writing by Linda Kelley, there is a wedding picture
of Bernie and Edna Pietenpol and a photo of baby Linda being held by her
dad Kermit, with Bernie as the proud grandpa. There are also two shots of
N13691, an early Ford Piet. "In my family it was a given that you went
flying - not necessarily to go anywhere - just purely for the joy of it."
You can access this article on your computer by ringing up
www.sportaviation.org. Some search engines may not carry it, but AltaVista
does. The "Magazine" section of the website lists the article "Flying with
Grandpa Bernie" and carries the entire article, including
photos. Information on membership is available at the website.
The Fall 1998 issue of "To Fly" - page 18 - has a full color photo of
several people at Sun 'n' Fun '98 looking over the engine installation in a
red Piet with the cowling removed. It shows the beautiful example of a
Corvair engine and a two-blade adjustable plastic prop. This article is no
longer available on-line.
The Spring 1999 "To Fly" has a color photo of Tom Nolan's (Utica. NY) Piet
N5021B on page 2.
Sport Aviation Association's "To Fly" carries a number of articles showing
a lot of "how to" on Pietenpol-type airplanes - airplanes of the homebuilt
variety, "tubes, sticks, and rags." It is a good resource for ideas and
techniques for this type of airplane. SAA is a small organization (little
over 1000 members), and all the membership cards are individually signed by
Paul H. Poberezny. The thrust is "grassroots aviation."
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
Ken,
I'm building a GN-1 and using a J-3 motor mount with a Cont. A-65 with a dry
weight of 170 lbs. The length of the motor mount is right at 9 inches.
DickG.
in "Sunny" Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Has anyone had any experience with the "Homebuilder's Special" 4"
tailwheel at Aircraft Spruce & Specialty? The price is tempting
(particularly when compared to a Scott 2000), but the weight is equally
tempting at just 3 lbs. Does anyone know if they work well?
Jack Phillips
Cessna 140 (The GULPHAWK)
Pietenpol wings complete, tail complete, fuselage in work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>
>Has anyone had any experience with the "Homebuilder's Special" 4"
>tailwheel at Aircraft Spruce & Specialty? The price is tempting
>(particularly when compared to a Scott 2000), but the weight is equally
>tempting at just 3 lbs. Does anyone know if they work well?
>
>Jack Phillips
>Hello Jack- Yep. I've got the 6" version of that and I'm happy with it.
I looked at the 4" one and didn't think it was big enough for the 95% grass
strip flying I do. ONE thing with this tailwheel should be noted before
flying:
The full-swivel function on mine was too easy to get into. In other words the
mechanism inside (super simple and nice) needed some filing/dremel tool
work to make it stay in the "steerable" mode more. I could take the wheel
in my hands and make it unlock from steerable to full swivel. I didn't think
much of this until I landed it one day and it decided to go into full
swivel just
after touchdown. I nearly rolled the plane up into a ball but was saved by
the grace of God when I poured the coals to it and went around. Landed safely
and tore the tailwheel apart. I used a dremel tool to make the detent deeper
where the locking mechanism pin rides. Mucho, mucho better. I can't get it
to full-swivel now from the cockpit (which is just fine with me) but when
rolling
it backwards into the hangar I can kick the tailwheel with my shoe
and she'll
click around and release to full swivel. If you do get this wheel make
sure you
get an adapter if you intend to use the narrower 1 1/4" leaf
springs.......but if you
plan on the 1 1/2" wide springs you shouldn't need the adapter....or have
to make one.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Walt,
I don't know for sure what BHP used but the original plans call for
using cardboard as one of the possibilities. One of the old newsletters
also said that somebody had used campaign posters which there are plenty
of in an election year, unless you want to forget this election like most
everybody else.
The use of cardboard seems pretty crude, but I tore down an Aeronca
Chief a long time ago, a 1940 model I believe, and its wings were all
wood with cardboard gussets on the ribs. The wood was really in rough
shape, but oddly enough, the cardboard gussets seemed to have stood up
quite well.
I didn't finish this project as there was so much wrong with the
airplane that the owner bailed out on me -- couldn't afford it. We had
discussed prior to this, however, to remake the wings using plywood
gussets. I don't think I could have gotten the old gussets off without
destroying them anyway --at one point, he wanted me to reuse these
gussets. It's one of those projects I'm glad that simply went away.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
By the way, it is an AD to replace those cardboard gusstes on Aeronca wings!
----- Original Message -----
From: <nle97(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
> Walt,
> I don't know for sure what BHP used but the original plans call
for
> using cardboard as one of the possibilities. One of the old newsletters
> also said that somebody had used campaign posters which there are plenty
> of in an election year, unless you want to forget this election like most
> everybody else.
> The use of cardboard seems pretty crude, but I tore down an
Aeronca
> Chief a long time ago, a 1940 model I believe, and its wings were all
> wood with cardboard gussets on the ribs. The wood was really in rough
> shape, but oddly enough, the cardboard gussets seemed to have stood up
> quite well.
> I didn't finish this project as there was so much wrong with the
> airplane that the owner bailed out on me -- couldn't afford it. We had
> discussed prior to this, however, to remake the wings using plywood
> gussets. I don't think I could have gotten the old gussets off without
> destroying them anyway --at one point, he wanted me to reuse these
> gussets. It's one of those projects I'm glad that simply went away.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Manuels for Bendix Scintilla SF-4RB Mag and Stromberg |
NA-S 3 B Carb.
Does anyone know of a good source for the above manuels?
Thanks,
DickG.
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
>Walt,
> I don't know for sure what BHP used but the original plans call for
>using cardboard as one of the possibilities.
A Piet built by the Broadhead people a few years back used cardboard leading
edge. I believe that was the one with the round engine.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Manuals for Bendix Scintilla SF-4RB mags and Stromberg |
NA-S3
carburetors
Dick G -
If nobody else comes up with a solution to your problem of finding manuals
for the mags and the carburetors, let me know. Either I have these manuals
or can get them from Sue Lurvey at the Boeing Library at EAA..
To anyone on the list - if you have a need for stuff like this, contact Sue
on the EAA website or get in touch with me and I will track it
down. That's my function for the Piet/Corvair group.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Sounds normal, remember that before WW II there were
not so many "aircraft approved$$$" materials to build
airplanes, they were REAL homebuilts.
Well normally overbuilt and heavy (compared to actual
models) but they did fly with low HP low RPM
engines...
Less expensive and more freedom, CERO liability un
USA...
Good old days,
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- walter evans wrote:
>
>
> I understand, and the plans suggest , that the
> original Piet's leading edge
> was made with Quaker Oats' boxes glued to the
> leading edge and varnished.
> Is this right guys?
> walt
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 9:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
>
> Cuy
>
> >
> > Guys- I built my wings using sections of 1/16"
> plywood shown as the
> > plans show aft of the leading edge, only on top,
> > and in retrospect would do it no other way if
> given the chance
> > again. 3/32" or soft aluminum, I believe, would
> deform more than you
> > want. Also, skip the felt padding- you just don't
> need it. That is
> meant
> > for banged up older alum. leading edges and for
> planes where the
> transistion
> > isn't as smooth as the Piet plans provide for.
> Don't make more work out
> > of this than there already is.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bushing Stock ??????? |
I encountered a little booger this afternoon while fabing my upper lift strut
fittings.
Plans read 3/8 tubing w/18 Ga wall drilled out to 5/16. I have tried for
hours to drill this out without success. Even used the creeping method by
starting with smaller sized bits and they wouldn't work, just tore up more
drill bits. I think I'll order some 7/16 w/ an I.D. about .307. Then ream to
.3125 for a good 5/16 fit. Keep a bolt in the bushing while welding the strap
fitting. I'm really asking for support on this. If one of you have
encountered this problem please sound off.
Corky in Icy La (Without electricity or heat for the last 4 days)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
In a message dated 12/16/00 3:36:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
>
> I encountered a little booger this afternoon while fabing my upper lift
> strut
> fittings.
> Plans read 3/8 tubing w/18 Ga wall drilled out to 5/16. I have tried for
> hours to drill this out without success. Even used the creeping method by
> starting with smaller sized bits and they wouldn't work, just tore up more
> drill bits. I think I'll order some 7/16 w/ an I.D. about .307. Then ream
> to
> .3125 for a good 5/16 fit. Keep a bolt in the bushing while welding the
> strap
> fitting. I'm really asking for support on this. If one of you have
> encountered this problem please sound off.
>
Corky,
Here is how I make those struts fittings. I have made four sets this way. I
cold wrap the straps (the straps have extra length, cut to plan length later)
around a 3/8 dia bar to a full pinch in the vice (some tapping is needed to
shape the top portion), remove the bar, tap in the 3/8 dia tube, weld all
around with my wire feed, grind excess weld to completed width of 1 inch,
Dremmel excess weld in the entry of the tube to make a lead for the reamer,
ream to 5/16 dia with a carbide reamer in a hand drill and the part in the
vice, drill the hole in the tab per plan, deburr, paint. Hope this helps.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Thanks Doug, I'll give it another try tomorrow as I have 3/8 bushing stock
out the uhulos.
Corky in La. It's still getting colder with no electricity.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edges |
Not in 1971!
writes:
>
> By the way, it is an AD to replace those cardboard gusstes on
> Aeronca wings!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <nle97(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 12:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges
>
>
> >
> > Walt,
> > I don't know for sure what BHP used but the original plans
> call
> for
> > using cardboard as one of the possibilities. One of the old
> newsletters
> > also said that somebody had used campaign posters which there are
> plenty
> > of in an election year, unless you want to forget this election
> like most
> > everybody else.
> > The use of cardboard seems pretty crude, but I tore down
> an
> Aeronca
> > Chief a long time ago, a 1940 model I believe, and its wings were
> all
> > wood with cardboard gussets on the ribs. The wood was really in
> rough
> > shape, but oddly enough, the cardboard gussets seemed to have
> stood up
> > quite well.
> > I didn't finish this project as there was so much wrong
> with the
> > airplane that the owner bailed out on me -- couldn't afford it.
> We had
> > discussed prior to this, however, to remake the wings using
> plywood
> > gussets. I don't think I could have gotten the old gussets off
> without
> > destroying them anyway --at one point, he wanted me to reuse these
> > gussets. It's one of those projects I'm glad that simply went
> away.
> >
> > John Langston
> > Pipe Creek, TX
> > nle97(at)juno.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "art follansbee" <follart(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manuels for Bendix Scintilla SF-4RB Mag and Stromberg |
NA-S 3 B Carb.
Dick,
Try ebay, "bendix magneto" and "Bendix carburetor", reprints/originals bid
up to about $25 each. I got one of each last week.
Art
>From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Manuels for Bendix Scintilla SF-4RB Mag and
>Stromberg NA-S 3 B Carb.
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:55:36 -0500
>
>
>
>Does anyone know of a good source for the above manuels?
>
>Thanks,
>DickG.
>Ft. Myers, FL
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Ya I have had this happen. 4130 is air hardening steel. Meaning that when
it gets red hot, it hardenens easily. Really easily !
The spinning drill bit ...I suspect...is heating the 4130 to a point where
the inside gets hot enough to harden the steel.
After that,the drill bits are drilling thru hard steel, and go to hell fast.
At least I think thats the way I figure it happened to me.
My plane is not a piet, so I cant vouch for the part you are working on, but
I solved my problem by heating my tube red hot, then allowing it to very
slowly air cool,,,by playing the heat away with the welding torch.
Next I got an old drill bit, and lots of cutting fluid, and drilled with it.
Next I drilled again with a new bit to size.
Big pain in the ass.
Bob
>From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bushing Stock ???????
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:34:47 EST
>
>
>I encountered a little booger this afternoon while fabing my upper lift
>strut
>fittings.
>Plans read 3/8 tubing w/18 Ga wall drilled out to 5/16. I have tried for
>hours to drill this out without success. Even used the creeping method by
>starting with smaller sized bits and they wouldn't work, just tore up more
>drill bits. I think I'll order some 7/16 w/ an I.D. about .307. Then ream
>to
>.3125 for a good 5/16 fit. Keep a bolt in the bushing while welding the
>strap
>fitting. I'm really asking for support on this. If one of you have
>encountered this problem please sound off.
>Corky in Icy La (Without electricity or heat for the last 4 days)
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Corky,
I don't know why you are chewing up drill bits on this fitting but your alternate
plan will work fine.
How did you fabricate yours?
After all the metal work was completed I have concluded that this is the most difficult
fitting to fabricate on the entire plane. Thick steel, tight bends in
close quaters and an edge weld thrown in for good measure.
After a few weeks of head scratching I made a two-part press die that made light
work out of it.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> 12/16 5:34 PM >>>
I encountered a little booger this afternoon while fabing my upper lift strut
fittings.
Plans read 3/8 tubing w/18 Ga wall drilled out to 5/16. I have tried for
hours to drill this out without success. Even used the creeping method by
starting with smaller sized bits and they wouldn't work, just tore up more
drill bits. I think I'll order some 7/16 w/ an I.D. about .307. Then ream to
.3125 for a good 5/16 fit. Keep a bolt in the bushing while welding the strap
fitting. I'm really asking for support on this. If one of you have
encountered this problem please sound off.
Corky in Icy La (Without electricity or heat for the last 4 days)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Greg,
I knew from the beginning I would have trouble with this task. Wrongly I
sliced off a 1 in piece of 3/8, vised it with a 7/8 width strap of .080, tack
welded the to be top of strap, heated the strap and bent it around both ways.
Hammered the strap together, welded both sides, ground the weld edges to 1
in. That 4130 had hardened so much by that time IT WOULDN'T CUT.
That's what happened. I'm ordering my 7/16 .307 this morning and will try
again. I think it will make a neater fitting. There is no apparent reason for
using 3/8 as I can see. What is the weight difference between 4 inches of 3/8
as against 7/16?
Thanks for your interest.
Corky in Cold La. Finally got 1 of my 2 lines of power.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I am glad I did not bid on it too |
Gary,
I went to try to find your handle on ebay but could not figure it out.
What is it?
If you have the crank redone, always do the minimum of cutting. If only
one journal needs to be trimmed down, then just do that one to save the
others for future wear. If the offending bad journal is too far gone, I
have the address of an STC holder for a chromed and ground crank repair on
these cranks. Barring it is not bent or cracked, that would be the way to
go as then it will not wear again because the chrome is so hard, and the
process will bring the whole crank back to standard dimensions. The only
caveat is that the crank must never have been nitritedm,,either at the
factory or in subsequent overhauls. You can determine this by looking at
the end of the prop shaft. The continental manual's ID procedure is as
follows. If it has four holes around the circumference (where the alleged
"damage" (from a nose over?)) is, then it is non nitrited. If it has a
fifth hole, then it is nitrited and cannot be chromed and ground.
Let me know what it looks like when it comes.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Corkey,
If you heat whole fitting to red and cool in still air, it will be
drillable. What I do is use an old large stew pot lid. When part is red,
just put the lid over it on the table and walk away. This keeps ALL drafts
away, and when cool it will be fine. Works like magic.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bushing Stock ???????
>
> Greg,
> I knew from the beginning I would have trouble with this task. Wrongly I
> sliced off a 1 in piece of 3/8, vised it with a 7/8 width strap of .080,
tack
> welded the to be top of strap, heated the strap and bent it around both
ways.
> Hammered the strap together, welded both sides, ground the weld edges to 1
> in. That 4130 had hardened so much by that time IT WOULDN'T CUT.
> That's what happened. I'm ordering my 7/16 .307 this morning and will try
> again. I think it will make a neater fitting. There is no apparent reason
for
> using 3/8 as I can see. What is the weight difference between 4 inches of
3/8
> as against 7/16?
> Thanks for your interest.
> Corky in Cold La. Finally got 1 of my 2 lines of power.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Corky,
He means a gumbo pot lid
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bushing Stock ??????? |
Chris,
I've got several of those
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Center section ? |
Ok,,, got a question before I start putting this center section
together. Do you cut out part of the rib where the center strut
bracket crosses it on the spar? I've got 3/4" spar and even without
the ply spacer the metal bracket doesn't clear the vertical brace on the
rib.
I hope this question is understandable,,,, better yet, hope to get a
solution. Thanks
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
I hope that this holidays will be the best
and my best wishes for all pietenpol listers,
i would like that all Piets will be on the air soon.
Thanks for your help, i think that this forum is very
useful for all of us,
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR
Javier Cruz
Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
Re:
Ok,,, got a question before I start putting this center section
together. Do you cut out part of the rib where the center strut
bracket crosses it on the spar? I've got 3/4" spar and even without
the ply spacer the metal bracket doesn't clear the vertical brace on the
rib.
I hope this question is understandable,,,, better yet, hope to get a
solution. Thanks
Carl
Very understandable.. I dealt with the same problem with the butt ribs on the
outer wing panels. I just cut away the vertical braces on the rib which run
on the insides of the fore and aft spars. Those braces look optional to me...
they appear on the schematic of the rib but not on the plans themselves, but
including them certainly helps maintain the correct rib profile in the area
of the spars and makes the ribs easier to slide onto the spars. As soon as I
finish varnishing the right outer wing panel, I will be into building the
center section too... probably in about week or so.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
I found that building those Piet wings calls for a lot of country whit'lin
and carv'in for the strap clearance as well as notches for the bolts and
nuts. It gets a little close but if you follow the plans it all works out
Corky in La. Still no power after 8 days. Snow forecast for tomorrow.
Practicing my welding to keep warm. BUT, still never hear-ed of a soul
retiring down south and moving north.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Thanks Matt,,, That's what I was thinking too. An other opinion
always helps to verify before cutting on this thing.
I know that the plans are "complete" but sometimes,,, geez.
Thanks again,
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
Re:
Ok,,, got a question before I start putting this center section
together. Do you cut out part of the rib where the center strut
bracket crosses it on the spar? I've got 3/4" spar and even without
the ply spacer the metal bracket doesn't clear the vertical brace on the
rib.
I hope this question is understandable,,,, better yet, hope to get a
solution. Thanks
Carl
Very understandable.. I dealt with the same problem with the butt ribs on
the
outer wing panels. I just cut away the vertical braces on the rib which run
on the insides of the fore and aft spars. Those braces look optional to
me...
they appear on the schematic of the rib but not on the plans themselves, but
including them certainly helps maintain the correct rib profile in the area
of the spars and makes the ribs easier to slide onto the spars. As soon as
I
finish varnishing the right outer wing panel, I will be into building the
center section too... probably in about week or so.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section ? |
I too am starting the center section. I copied some helpful photos off the website
of Doug Hunt on the aircamper.org site. They may be helpful to you Carl with
your question. My question is : have you noticed that the plans for the center
section differ from the accompanying photos in regard to the 3/32 plywood
spacers behind the cabane fitting attachments. The photos show the plywood completely
backing (under) the fittings. However, the plans indicate a smaller pie
shaped piece of ply which comes up to but not under the fittings. It seems to
me that without the ply backing the cabane fittings will not snug up against
the center sect. spar which doesn't seem right. I am leaning toward the larger
ply backing as per the photos. Does anyone have insight into this apparent discrepancy?
Dave Boyd, Champaign IL
From: Carl Loar<SKYCARL(at)MEGSINET.NET>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section ?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:58:39 -0500
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Carl Loar
Ok,,, got a question before I start putting this center section
together. Do you cut out part of the rib where the center strut
bracket crosses it on the spar? I've got 3/4 spar and even without
the ply spacer the metal bracket doesn't clear the vertical brace on the
rib.
I hope this question is understandable,,,, better yet, hope to get a
solution. Thanks
Carl
Please visit my website at
http://www.megsinet.net/skycarl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
David,
For what it is worth and without better instruction or advice, this is what I
did on that center section problem.
First. I dress all four main wing spars to 3/4 thickness. Added 1/8 birch
plates. This gave me a 1 inch overall thickness. Bolted my steel straps.
Second. I dressed the centersection spars to .715 . Added 1/16 mah plates and
bolted the strapfittingsin place. On the triangular surface below the strap I
cut and ffitted a3/32 piece of plywood. I sanded this piece smooth with the
1/16 surface to fit under the cabane fitting. So, lets add: Spar .715 + .160
(2 .080 Straps) = .875 + 2 plates of 1/16 plywood .125 = 1 inch. This allows
the centersection fitting with bushing welded in to mate with the wing
fitting perfectly.
CONFUSED? So am I just trying to put this down in print. I hope my procedure
works and holds this bird together. I or my widow will inform the list.
Corky in electrified La after 8 days. But my welding has sure improved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Isabelle and I would like to wish all Piets a very happy, holy and merry
Christmas and may the new year be happy, healthful and productive.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Happy Holidays to all and Happy Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Steve Eldredge "Hats" |
Steve,
Great hat!! My wife ordered one for me for Christmas. Now I really have to
finish my Piet.
Happy Holidays,
Daryl Bortel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Flyboy) |
| Subject: | Landing gear leg tubing |
Hope everyone had a great holiday!!!
Got a question. I'm starting on my landing gear, the 1933 split legged
style. The plans call for 14 gauge (.078") 1020 tubing . Both Wicks and
ACS list 1 3/8'' by .065" and then jump to .095"
in 4130 of course. Is it safe to assume that I could use the .065"
tubing since 4130 is stronger than 1020???? Does some other supplier
handle 4130 in .078"??? Can someone please let me know what they did
with theirs. I definitly don't want to make it heavier than the plans
call for. Thanks in advance.
Ed Grentzer
Palm Harbor, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear leg tubing |
Ed,
Your question was .... Is there a supplier for .078 landing gear tubing.
Try Dillsburg Areoplane Works in Dillsburg, Pa.
They stock every imaginable size of 4130 in both tubing and sheet steel.
I used .083 on my Piet landing gear and although it is just a tad thicker
walled than the .078
I don't think the slightly heavier weight will be a problem.
Their phone number is 717/432-4589 They are great people to deal with and
will give any order
their full attention no matter how small. They have a catalogue that they
will send you if you call.
Hope this helps,
Sam
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy_120(at)webtv.net (Flyboy) |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear leg tubing |
Wow that was a quick reply! Thanks Sam I'll give Dillsburg a call. I've
heard of them but never dealt with them and didn't have there number.
Thanks again.
Ed G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
this fella has a 65 corvair for parts with a 110 hp
engine. he would like 80.00 for it, if anybody is
interested.
del
I am 10 miles on the 30 deg radial of the Dubuque
airport or 4 miles
from
downtown Dubuque. My airport identifer is WI81.Adress
is 586 Rock Cut
Road
Hazel Green, WI 53811 608-748-426
Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | C:\temp\tailwheel.htm |
There was a discussion a while back about tailwheels. This is how I
converted the Piet skid to a tailhwheel.
( I hope this works )
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
C:\temp\tailwheel.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: C:\temp\tailwheel.htm |
>
>There was a discussion a while back about tailwheels. This is how I
>converted the Piet skid to a tailhwheel.
>
>( I hope this works )
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>C:\temp\tailwheel.htm
>
Sorry, it didn't work.
Mike B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear leg tubing |
In a message dated 12/27/00 12:40:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flyboy_120(at)webtv.net writes:
> Got a question. I'm starting on my landing gear, the 1933 split legged
> style. The plans call for 14 gauge (.078") 1020 tubing . Both Wicks and
> ACS list 1 3/8'' by .065" and then jump to .095"
> in 4130 of course. Is it safe to assume that I could use the .065"
> tubing since 4130 is stronger than 1020???? Does some other supplier
> handle 4130 in .078"??? Can someone please let me know what they did
> with theirs. I definitly don't want to make it heavier than the plans
> call for. Thanks in advance.
>
>
Ed,
I used the .065 wall 4130 on my first air camper. I have built four sets of
gears this way. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I'm working on covering my tail and trying to come up with a plan for the
fuse. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to to do this? Would it be
best to do the turtle deck as one piece, then each side panel? Should the
pieces be sewn together?
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
>
>
>I'm working on covering my tail and trying to come up with a plan for the
>fuse.
Hello Dick,
If you can find someone or sew up a blanket/envelope yourself, that would save
a lot of overlapping and glue seams, but I did what you described. I did the
belly first, in one piece, then the sides, then the turtle deck. Worked ok as
long as I kept my glue jobs on the longerons fairly neat. The finishing tapes
along those edges help to hide any irregularities too though.
With a seamed or envelope style covering for the fuselage, all you really
have to watch is where the sewn seams are and when you tighten the whole
thing with an iron that you do it evenly so the seam is straight and not a big
series of S-curves.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Richard,,, Aircraft Spruce carries complete envelope sets for the piet.
Pretty reasonable price when you figure all areas to be covered and
the waste you will probably end up with. This is the route I plan to go.
Useing the stits poly fabric and heat shrinking and then covering with a
non tensioning dope to give the old plane effect.
Note; call them for a price on the envelopes as they are different than
what's
in the catalog.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Navratil
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering
I'm working on covering my tail and trying to come up with a plan for the
fuse. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to to do this? Would it be
best to do the turtle deck as one piece, then each side panel? Should the
pieces be sewn together?
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/27/00 9:50:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
> I'm working on covering my tail and trying to come up with a plan for the
> fuse. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to to do this? Would it be
> best to do the turtle deck as one piece, then each side panel? Should the
> pieces be sewn together?
>
>
Dick,
You can cover in any order. I prefer to cover the turtle deck first, then
the sides, and finally the open section of the bottom. I know of no need for
sewing. Make overlap joints with the glue or dope of what ever system you
are using. Cover the joints with tapes after shrinking. Hope this helps.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks all for the reponses. I have seen the sewn envelope in the past but
It sure looks a lot easier doing it the way Mike and Doug described. Now
to just remember to measure twice before cutting.
Snowy nights in Minnesota are great for working on a Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I'm at the point of gluing the scarf joints on my
spars. I would like to hear the pro's and con's of
gluing with the dihedral in or gluing straight and
then flexing the spars to get the dihedral. If I
trigged it out properly, to get 1.5 degrees of
dihedral the ends of the spar would have to be 4 to 5
inches up from the center, or in other words. if you
stretched a string from one tip to the other there
would be 4 to 5 inches gap in the center from the
string to the spar.
del
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/31/00 4:12:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com writes:
> I'm at the point of gluing the scarf joints on my
> spars. I would like to hear the pro's and con's of
> gluing with the dihedral in or gluing straight and
> then flexing the spars to get the dihedral. If I
> trigged it out properly, to get 1.5 degrees of
> dihedral the ends of the spar would have to be 4 to 5
> inches up from the center, or in other words. if you
> stretched a string from one tip to the other there
> would be 4 to 5 inches gap in the center from the
> string to the spar.
> del
>
>
Del,
Here is my brief take on the subject. I quess I don't understand the need
for any dihedral. My aircraft have straight wings. The plans show a
straight wing. I have 80 some hours on my first aircraft and wouldn't know
of any flying reason to have dihedral. However, BHP did put some dihedral in
33U (the first long fuselage Corvair aircraft). The amount appears to be
just enough to remove the drooped look illusion of the straight wing (very
small amount). I spent nearly three full days at Oshkosh (2000) studying both
the A powered and Corvair powered aircraft in th Museums. The Corvair
powered one definitely has a small amount. I believe I would build the wing
straight and apply the dihedral with the struts. This is just my opinion.
Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Dan Carroll at home"
Why mess with the dihedral. Every aircraft has apparent dihedral (what you
see) and effective dihedral (what you get). Successful aircraft designs
without dihedral or anhedral or negative dihedral have enough effective
dihedral to provide the stability required. Such things as a slab sided
fuselage (like the Piet or a Taylorcraft, for example) create a lot of
effective dihedral. Some airplanes like the C-141 Starlifter and the Avro
BAE 146 / RJ-85 had so much effective dihedral early in their design phase
that a lot of negative dihedral was necessary to get the aircraft's
stability in a desirable range. In a side slip/gust upset, air gets dammed
up under the wing and against the fuselage and provides way to much
corrective action so the negative dihedral is used to correct this
characteristic.
So the bottom line is why change something that ain't broke. Did not
Bernard do all the tinkering for us and found the right combination?
Just think. In a correctly designed aircraft, if a vertical gust upsets the
left wing, lifting it up, the aircraft sideslips a little to the right,
creating a little more lift on the right side, bringing the right wing up
THE SAME AMOUNT as the left wing went up initially. SO....a little rudder
action on your part to keep it heading the way you were going and the plane
flies sweet. Add a little dihedral, THAT IS NOT NEEDED, and the scenario
goes like this. A vertical gust upsets the left wing, lifting it up, and
the aircraft sideslips a little to the right. But there is too much
effective dihedral, so a little more lift is created on the right side
during the sideslip and it is more than what is needed to right the
aircraft. SO the right wing goes up a little more than the left wing did
initially. This has the same effect of having a gust upset from the right.
Now the aircraft sideslips a little to the left.... And there you go,
round and round. A miserable airplane to fly because it has too much
stability.
As an exercise, think about what would happen if you did not have enough
effective dihedral.
Read old issues of Kitplanes where Barnaby Wainfan discusses dihedral
effect. Or read Perkins and Hage's Aircraft Stability and Control. Or
November 02, 2000 - January 01, 2001
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bt