Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-es
September 29, 2005 - November 14, 2005
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Lou
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
> From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
> Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble with....It could
> save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lou Wither
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
> Guys,
>
> I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels,
but
> had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side
> load imposed on them when landing.
>
> Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from
a
> 182. These should be rugged enough.
>
> The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side
> seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done
> some alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be
> dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured
> to the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt
> conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
>
> The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is
without
> touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had
> some effect on the right side.
>
> Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine,
> just having this one last problem.
>
> Thanks
> Lou
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
> b$b82ca9d0$c3afd618@DJJYD981>
> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
> I agree. We have cycle wheels and no problems after a few hundred
> flight hours. The previous owner claimed that they were Honda 350
> wheels, but they're not. They appear to be a hybrid dirt-street wheel
> from the 60s or 70s. The tires are 3.00x17 or 3.5x17.
>
> >Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble
> >with....It could save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <mailto:nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>Lou Wither
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
> >
> >Guys,
> >
> >I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle
> >wheels, but had problems with the hubs breaking. They are
> >insufficient to take the side load imposed on them when landing.
> >
> >Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and
> >axles from a 182. These should be rugged enough.
> >
> >The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The
> >right side seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear
> >spreads. I have done some alignment work and have finally gotten
> >the right gear and left gear to be dimesionally the same. I used a
> >straight edge against the tire and measured to the fuselage when the
> >plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt conduit held
> >against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
> >
> >The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward.
> >This is without touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening
> >the left wheel had some effect on the right side.
> >
> >Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane
> >flies fine, just having this one last problem.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Lou
>
> --
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead
>
> Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always wanting to know of problems with
> other guys engines. I also have found over the years that there is a lot of
> wrong info about events and problems. So, for any other Ford guys out there,
> Ken Perkins DID have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the coupling.
> He says it was a small piece of metal stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let
> it enter the field. He has no idea where the metal came from, but once removed,
> everything is fine.
>
> Thought you'd wanna know, I did.
>
> Douwe
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
> From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Question
> I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my
> pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and
> the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
> Thanks
> Nick Harris
> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only
> an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of
> two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many
> on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
>
> Jim Markle
> Plano, TX
> 214.505.6101
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick Harris
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Question
> I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all
my
> pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and
> the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
> Thanks
> Nick Harris
> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
> From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the
lower
> left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join
> into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
>
> Nick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Markle
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have
only
> an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction
> of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as
> many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
>
> Jim Markle
> Plano, TX
> 214.505.6101
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick Harris
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Question
> I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all
> my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam
> and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
> Thanks
> Nick Harris
> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
> From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
>
> It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem,
> No? I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly
> through the joint attaching it to the horizontal.
>
> Stevee
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick
> Harris
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look
> at the lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower
> beam should join into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971
> &PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
>
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jim Markle <mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
>
>
> Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I
> for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but
> anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets
> on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it
> probably won't be an issue....
>
>
>
> Jim Markle
> Plano, TX
> 214.505.6101
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Nick Harris <mailto:nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
>
>
> Question
>
> I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake.
> After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the
> junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it
> should be. Is this a problem?
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick Harris
>
> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
> From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead
>
>
> Thanks for that info. I fly an A powered Pietenpol
> (Howard Hendersons), and was also interested in this
> issue. The only issue I have had, I was previously
> warned about, and it is magneto related, too. I asked
> Joe Santana what the small diameter soft copper tube
> was for, stowed loose alongside the pilots leg. It is
> to spray WD 40 into the mag when the impulse isn't
> clicking. Works everytime and starts right up. Now
> that fall is here, I am going to be trying to get mo'
> flyin' in.
>
> --- Douwe Blumberg
> wrote:
>
> > Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always
> > wanting to know of problems with other guys engines.
> > I also have found over the years that there is a
> > lot of wrong info about events and problems. So,
> > for any other Ford guys out there, Ken Perkins DID
> > have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the
> > coupling. He says it was a small piece of metal
> > stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let it enter the
> > field. He has no idea where the metal came from,
> > but once removed, everything is fine.
> >
> > Thought you'd wanna know, I did.
> >
> > Douwe
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
> ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
>
> From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> I did when this pic was taken. Since then I cut it down closer to finish length.
> The bolt was one of my concerns also, but the front bolt bolt holes go through
> the joint also. Maybe it would be best to just make a new one.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Eldredge
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem, No?
> I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly through the joint
> attaching it to the horizontal.
>
> Stevee
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Harris
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:46 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the
> lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join
> into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
>
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jim Markle
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
>
>
> Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have
> only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction
> of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as
> many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
>
>
>
> Jim Markle
> Plano, TX
> 214.505.6101
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Nick Harris
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
>
>
> Question
>
> I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting
all
> my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam
> and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick Harris
>
> ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
>
> From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
>
> Nick,
>
> If you use birch plywood gussets at this joint and make the fittings slightly
longer
> so that the bolt holes don't line up with the joint line, it should be OK
> as is. Birch plywood, aircraft quality, is very strong and stiff---and the primary
> strength of the joint is in the gussets, not the butt joint.
>
> Just keep the bolt hole(s) away from the joint line.
>
> Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
Suzuki - 1968, 350 CC with drum brakes.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Progress update on mykitplanes.com |
Hi all,
I've had a few days off, and my wife's been out of town. Its amazing
how much you can get done if your work or private life doesn't interfere.
I put some epoxy varnish over the floor of my fuselage so I could get in
and out without getting it dirty. The okoume plywood really looks nice
with some varnish on it. Here is the link to my progress so far
Ben Charvet
Mims Fl,
(a lurker without much to say)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Santiago asks-
>I need to know the distance (gap) between the aileron first rib and the
>wing.
>The Sky Scout plans show 1/2". Same for the Air Camper?
The Aircamper plans show a wing gap of 3/8" between the aileron spar and the
wing, at the hinge line. If you're talking about the end of the aileron,
between the rib and the wing, it does not seem to be shown on the Aircamper
plans but I assume that most builders would make it the same as the hinge
gap, 3/8".
So, you are in Argentina? I just watched the movie, "The Motorcycle
Diaries" last weekend, about Ernesto 'Che' Guevara's travels from Argentina
down through South America in the 1950's. No airplanes in the movie, but
the scenery was fabulous (such as Machu Picchu).
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kowalski" <REDWING(at)Fanninelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/27/05 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/27/05
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-27.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-27.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 09/27/05: 3
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:37 AM - cockpit entrance door (Oscar Zuniga)
> 2. 07:40 AM - Re:corvair heads / progress report (Hans Vander Voort)
> 3. 05:05 PM - Aileron (santiago morete)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
>
>
> It sounds to me like there are two things being discussed under this same
> subject line... one is latches for a side entrance door and the other is
the
> wing cutout 'flop'. On 41CC, the wing cutout flop comes up to the
in-trail
> position if left alone in flight and has very simple slide latches on the
> underside of the trailing edge to keep it from lifting up to reflex.
> Nothing complicated.
>
> However, here's a thought (untested; just an idea). How about those
> spring-loaded roller ball latches that are used for closet doors and
bifold
> doors? One of those on each side of the flop would be plenty of
resistance
> to hold the flop in place, yet a push upwards would pop the flop and let
Pop
> hop without a bop on his top ;o) And they are available in brass finish,
> too...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re:Pietenpol-List: corvair heads / progress report
> From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
> 27, 2005) at 2005-09-27 16:39:32
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I would not replace the valve seats unless there are damaged or loose.
> Just check the valve guide wear and replace valve guides if needed.
> You can re-use existing valves if they are not worn out, just clean them
up
> real good.
> Just re-grind / lap the valve and valve seats, you can do this yourself ,
> with some lapping compound and tools from a auto parts store.
>
> I choose to replace all moving parts, springs, retainers, stainless valves
> and some of the valve guides.
>
> Suggest you get a copy of Richard Finch's book on Corvair, it describes
the
> overhaul process more clearly than GM' shop manual (green book)
> Plus it clearly shows what not to do with valve seats!
>
>
> Hans
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron
>
> I need to know the distance (gap) between the aileron first rib and the
wing.
> The Sky Scout plans show 1/2". Same for the Air Camper? Thank you.
Saludos
>
> Santiago Morete
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> 1GB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam
> Abr tu cuenta aqu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
Lou,
Thanks for the reply. Hm. Our hubs have not broken. Yet. How did
yours break? Side loads in landing?
Thanks for any information you can provide.
Best regards,
Jeff
>Suzuki - 1968, 350 CC with drum brakes.
>
>Lou
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
I think that what is going on is the side load imposed by the alignment of the
gear. When the bungies extend the wheel essentially tilts out imposing a moment
around the axle through the hub of the wheel. I believe moment is what created
the situation, I was lucky, the wheel cracked during a high speed taxi, there
were no landing loads imposed. After taking a good look at it, I believe
the wheels that I used might have worked better in a solid axle situation. With
a solid axle the load imposed through the wheel to the axle is always perpendicular
to the axis of the axle therefore imposing no bending loads through
the wheel hub. I hope this helps.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Clarke" <chrise3a(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks for the advice |
Just a quick note to thank all for the suggestions. I ended up using small
graduated plastic cups. Seemed to work easy enough to measure and stir up.
So I have the first side glued up and will put on the gussets later. I
guess one just has to find something that works and get to it. Time goes by
quick and it will be getting cold up here in Winnipeg.
Cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the advice |
Cold! You got that right! I understand you can also watch
your dog run away for four days! :-) :-)
Clif
Time goes by quick and it will be getting cold up here in Winnipeg.
Cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the advice |
I live in Florida and I noticed a big difference in how easy it was to
pour the T-88 and how long it takes it to set up. Its 90 degrees or
better here now, and the T-88 is setting up pretty hard in just a few
hours. Keep plugging away and you'll be sitting in your fuselage making
airplane noises before you know it.
Ben
Chris Clarke wrote:
> Just a quick note to thank all for the suggestions. I ended up using
> small graduated plastic cups. Seemed to work easy enough to measure
> and stir up. So I have the first side glued up and will put on the
> gussets later. I guess one just has to find something that works and
> get to it. Time goes by quick and it will be getting cold up here in
> Winnipeg.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> |
I'm a Piet builder in McPherson, KS looking for someone nearby who has a
completed or nearly completed Air Camper to shoot some photos of. I
have heard that there is a very nice Piet at the Benton, KS. airport.
Can someone out there tell me who to contact to see this airplane? I'd
be more than happy to buy someone lunch so I could talk his/her ear off
about my own project.
Tom Stinemetze
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRichmo9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
tom there are 4 completed piets in tulsa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
I live at Collinsville,OK. Probably a 3 hr. drive but you are welcome to
look, take all the pictures and talk all you want. I have a corvair powered Piet
that has been flying since 1995. You can contact me at
jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com or 918-371-9624 if you are interested. JIM BALLEW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
Chuck Gantzer must be sleeping in!! ;-) Tom, he's the one you want to visit
with -- he did have his Piet at Benton (till they decided to take down the
old row of hangars)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Stinemetze
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's on First?
I'm a Piet builder in McPherson, KS looking for someone nearby who has a
completed or nearly completed Air Camper to shoot some photos of. I have
heard that there is a very nice Piet at the Benton, KS. airport. Can
someone out there tell me who to contact to see this airplane? I'd be more
than happy to buy someone lunch so I could talk his/her ear off about my own
project.
Tom Stinemetze
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.497, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.10,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
I am beginning to think ahead a bit. I am about to start construction
and I am wondering if there is anything I can coat the wood with to make
it safe for outside storage. Hanger space in my neck of the woods is
very difficult to come by and pricey when it is available. The thought
of a wooden airplane that I spent that much time to build outside just
makes me cringe, but I am sure this bridge has been crossed before.
Would a coat of varish or expoy or whatever effectively weatherproof the
wood so it would be safe to let it face winter without damage? If so
just how much weight is it likely to add? Thanks in advance
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvairs- New update |
William has just posted a series of photos and notes dealing with Corvair
engine installation details, at
http://flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Some good hints and tips for anyone building and flying not just Corvairs,
but general good info for firewall forward.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
Tom,
Like Mike C. said, I used to have my plane at Benton, and yes...I enjoy
sleeping in !!
I'm down at Cook Airfield now. It's between Derby and Rose Hill. Great
little airport...not too busy, 1600 foot grass runway, and 2600 foot hard surface
runway. I have a really good hanger now, it's all closed in, and has
electric, and a concrete floor. At Benton, it was an open Tee hanger, and birds
constantly had their way with my plane !!
It would be great to get together this week sometime. I could even fly
up to McPherson after work some day...weather permittiing. I flew up there and
met a guy named Chad Johnson, who was wanting to build a Piet, but haven't
heard from him in quite a while.
E-mail me off list, and we can arrange a meeting.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Mark,
I used PolyFiber's 2-part Epoxy Varnish and highly recommend it,
although it ain't cheap. Thin the first coat about 50% with their
reducer to increase penetration into the wood and then put two more full
strength coats on. Doesn't add too much weight and is about the most
bulletproof coating you can put on wood. Some varnishes, even
polyurethanes, can be attacked by the fabric finishing materials,
lifting them off the wood and exposing the wood below to the potential
for rot.
PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish is very expensive at about $30 a quart
(mixed), but for about $100 you can make the wood of your structure last
indefinitely - not a bad trade in my opinion.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sealing wood
I am beginning to think ahead a bit. I am about to start construction
and I am wondering if there is anything I can coat the wood with to make
it safe for outside storage. Hanger space in my neck of the woods is
very difficult to come by and pricey when it is available. The thought
of a wooden airplane that I spent that much time to build outside just
makes me cringe, but I am sure this bridge has been crossed before.
Would a coat of varish or expoy or whatever effectively weatherproof the
wood so it would be safe to let it face winter without damage? If so
just how much weight is it likely to add? Thanks in advance
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing wood |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.516, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.08,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
>Mark,
>
>I used PolyFiber's 2-part Epoxy Varnish and highly recommend it,
>although it ain't cheap. Thin the first coat about 50% with their
>reducer to increase penetration into the wood and then put two more full
>strength coats on. Doesn't add too much weight and is about the most
>bulletproof coating you can put on wood. Some varnishes, even
>polyurethanes, can be attacked by the fabric finishing materials,
>lifting them off the wood and exposing the wood below to the potential
>for rot.
>
>PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish is very expensive at about $30 a quart
>(mixed), but for about $100 you can make the wood of your structure last
>indefinitely - not a bad trade in my opinion.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
>
>
Jack not doing something like that I would call penny wise and pound
foolish. Can the wood then stand outside storage up in the colder
climates??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing wood |
Mark,
I do feel the epoxy is probably the best you can use
to protect the wood, but it is very expensive to use.
I have done some checking around and have come up with
an alternative that should work well. I am using (as
a first coat) a 40% linseed oil/ 40% spar urethane/
20% tung oil mixture. I allow this coat to dry
throughly over several days. This mixture penetrates
deeply into the wood and the linseed oil helps to
carry the urethane deep into the wood. I follow up
with a second coat with a mixture of 80%/20% spar
urethane/tung oil to complete the process. This
process is used where fabric will be attached to the
wood. On the other wood, I will porbably use just the
urethane/tung oil mixture. I am only experimenting
but so far, I am very impressed with the results. It
is far less expensive than epoxy varnish. If money is
not a concern to you, you may wish to use the epoxy
method. I am having to keep the costs down as low as
possible, so I chose this method. Hope this is of
some help.
Doc
--- Mark wrote:
>
>
> I am beginning to think ahead a bit. I am about to
> start construction
> and I am wondering if there is anything I can coat
> the wood with to make
> it safe for outside storage. Hanger space in my
> neck of the woods is
> very difficult to come by and pricey when it is
> available. The thought
> of a wooden airplane that I spent that much time to
> build outside just
> makes me cringe, but I am sure this bridge has been
> crossed before.
> Would a coat of varish or expoy or whatever
> effectively weatherproof the
> wood so it would be safe to let it face winter
> without damage? If so
> just how much weight is it likely to add? Thanks in
> advance
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing wood |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.523, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.08,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>Mark,
>
>I do feel the epoxy is probably the best you can use
>to protect the wood, but it is very expensive to use.
>I have done some checking around and have come up with
>an alternative that should work well. I am using (as
>a first coat) a 40% linseed oil/ 40% spar urethane/
>20% tung oil mixture. I allow this coat to dry
>throughly over several days. This mixture penetrates
>deeply into the wood and the linseed oil helps to
>carry the urethane deep into the wood. I follow up
>with a second coat with a mixture of 80%/20% spar
>urethane/tung oil to complete the process. This
>process is used where fabric will be attached to the
>wood. On the other wood, I will porbably use just the
>urethane/tung oil mixture. I am only experimenting
>but so far, I am very impressed with the results. It
>is far less expensive than epoxy varnish. If money is
>not a concern to you, you may wish to use the epoxy
>method. I am having to keep the costs down as low as
>possible, so I chose this method. Hope this is of
>some help.
>
>Doc
>
>
If I knew I could get hanger space at something reasonable at the end,
what you are doing sounds both logical and effective from a common sense
approach. Money is always a concern or I wouldn't likely be building a
Piet, but there are places and times to cut and times not to. Even at
$30 a quart, if a gallon would do the whole airplane, it likely for me
wouldn't be worth the risks for the savings. I do not know exactly how
it will work out but avweb reported that Allegeny Co airport is
attempting to raise hanger rates from $500 to $1500 a month. If it
happens and AGC is not far from my house, either there are more people
around with more money than I thought, or there is going to be a mass
goodbye filling up every hanger around for miles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Mark,
If you are planning to use the PolyFiber process, I strongly recommend
you get some of their products and try them on whatever type of varnish
you end up using, to make sure they don't "lift" the varnish from the
wood. Their epoxy varnish and their epoxy primers are specifically
formulated to resist their covering chemicals. I tried at first using a
good grade of marine polyurethane varnish on my wings. Then I tried
applying a little polyfiber reducer to it and it just dissolved away. I
re-coated everything with their epoxy varnish after that experiment.
Other finishes might resist polybrush, but I would try them before
committing.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>Mark,
>
>I do feel the epoxy is probably the best you can use
>to protect the wood, but it is very expensive to use.
>I have done some checking around and have come up with
>an alternative that should work well. I am using (as
>a first coat) a 40% linseed oil/ 40% spar urethane/
>20% tung oil mixture. I allow this coat to dry
>throughly over several days. This mixture penetrates
>deeply into the wood and the linseed oil helps to
>carry the urethane deep into the wood. I follow up
>with a second coat with a mixture of 80%/20% spar
>urethane/tung oil to complete the process. This
>process is used where fabric will be attached to the
>wood. On the other wood, I will porbably use just the
>urethane/tung oil mixture. I am only experimenting
>but so far, I am very impressed with the results. It
>is far less expensive than epoxy varnish. If money is
>not a concern to you, you may wish to use the epoxy
>method. I am having to keep the costs down as low as
>possible, so I chose this method. Hope this is of
>some help.
>
>Doc
>
>
If I knew I could get hanger space at something reasonable at the end,
what you are doing sounds both logical and effective from a common sense
approach. Money is always a concern or I wouldn't likely be building a
Piet, but there are places and times to cut and times not to. Even at
$30 a quart, if a gallon would do the whole airplane, it likely for me
wouldn't be worth the risks for the savings. I do not know exactly how
it will work out but avweb reported that Allegeny Co airport is
attempting to raise hanger rates from $500 to $1500 a month. If it
happens and AGC is not far from my house, either there are more people
around with more money than I thought, or there is going to be a mass
goodbye filling up every hanger around for miles.
________________________________________________________________________________
I found the same problem. I solved it by buying and applying the Poly
fiber Epoxy with a small roller to all the fabric attach points. I
still have some of the quart kit left. I didn't bother to recoat the
inside structure with it. That way I got both cheap and good.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Phillips, Jack
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sealing wood
Mark,
If you are planning to use the PolyFiber process, I strongly recommend
you get some of their products and try them on whatever type of varnish
you end up using, to make sure they don't "lift" the varnish from the
wood. Their epoxy varnish and their epoxy primers are specifically
formulated to resist their covering chemicals. I tried at first using a
good grade of marine polyurethane varnish on my wings. Then I tried
applying a little polyfiber reducer to it and it just dissolved away. I
re-coated everything with their epoxy varnish after that experiment.
Other finishes might resist polybrush, but I would try them before
committing.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>Mark,
>
>I do feel the epoxy is probably the best you can use
>to protect the wood, but it is very expensive to use.
>I have done some checking around and have come up with
>an alternative that should work well. I am using (as
>a first coat) a 40% linseed oil/ 40% spar urethane/
>20% tung oil mixture. I allow this coat to dry
>throughly over several days. This mixture penetrates
>deeply into the wood and the linseed oil helps to
>carry the urethane deep into the wood. I follow up
>with a second coat with a mixture of 80%/20% spar
>urethane/tung oil to complete the process. This
>process is used where fabric will be attached to the
>wood. On the other wood, I will porbably use just the
>urethane/tung oil mixture. I am only experimenting
>but so far, I am very impressed with the results. It
>is far less expensive than epoxy varnish. If money is
>not a concern to you, you may wish to use the epoxy
>method. I am having to keep the costs down as low as
>possible, so I chose this method. Hope this is of
>some help.
>
>Doc
>
>
If I knew I could get hanger space at something reasonable at the end,
what you are doing sounds both logical and effective from a common sense
approach. Money is always a concern or I wouldn't likely be building a
Piet, but there are places and times to cut and times not to. Even at
$30 a quart, if a gallon would do the whole airplane, it likely for me
wouldn't be worth the risks for the savings. I do not know exactly how
it will work out but avweb reported that Allegeny Co airport is
attempting to raise hanger rates from $500 to $1500 a month. If it
happens and AGC is not far from my house, either there are more people
around with more money than I thought, or there is going to be a mass
goodbye filling up every hanger around for miles.
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAuAhUAwiorKh9ceOwnlmezXj2w527NXuUCFQCOexrzH4hVPY0CkS6G7mkwfwcXjQ==
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Mark: You might also want to look at every low spot or dam that could
hold moisture including lower fus. side gussets, and drill drain holes
threw all of these "dams" Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator control cable connections |
I'm trying to figure out how to connect control cables from the bellcrank to the
elevator control horns. Many of the photos I've seen on the matronics site
show connection to the horns through a u-shaped shackle.
I haven't yet found any pictures that show the connection to the aft side of the
bell crank. Are turnbuckles used at this connection? Do you connect two sets
of cables, one to the left elevator horn, and one to the right elevator horn
to the hole on the aft end of the bell crank? If so, what are the fittings
to use at that point?
Thanks to everyone on this list for the great info and advice that's passed back
and forth.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator control cable connect |
John you might try this site http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/About.htm Its a gn1 but I would think the connections should be about the same but I recall when I looked through the pics that there were some good pics of the elevator cable connections.Have a look anyway it might be of some help.A picture is worth oodles!
Kind regards,Mike Turrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing wood |
Mark,
In USA there are LOTS of airstrips and little airports everywhere,
I dont think a Piet HAS to be in an airport (I mean paved as airport) , a good
grass airstrip where you can rent a piece of land (30 x 20 ft) and build a simple
"T" hanger will do.
Even one you could desasemble if you buy a space someplace in a near future.
I visited Texas (Houston) a couple of years ago, and there are hundreds of strips
and little airports around, Well is BIG Texas...But I think where you live
could happen something similar, just look around while you build your project...
Maybe I am wrong but could work...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Mark wrote:
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>
>Mark,
>
>I do feel the epoxy is probably the best you can use
>to protect the wood, but it is very expensive to use.
>I have done some checking around and have come up with
>an alternative that should work well. I am using (as
>a first coat) a 40% linseed oil/ 40% spar urethane/
>20% tung oil mixture. I allow this coat to dry
>throughly over several days. This mixture penetrates
>deeply into the wood and the linseed oil helps to
>carry the urethane deep into the wood. I follow up
>with a second coat with a mixture of 80%/20% spar
>urethane/tung oil to complete the process. This
>process is used where fabric will be attached to the
>wood. On the other wood, I will porbably use just the
>urethane/tung oil mixture. I am only experimenting
>but so far, I am very impressed with the results. It
>is far less expensive than epoxy varnish. If money is
>not a concern to you, you may wish to use the epoxy
>method. I am having to keep the costs down as low as
>possible, so I chose this method. Hope this is of
>some help.
>
>Doc
>
>
If I knew I could get hanger space at something reasonable at the end,
what you are doing sounds both logical and effective from a common sense
approach. Money is always a concern or I wouldn't likely be building a
Piet, but there are places and times to cut and times not to. Even at
$30 a quart, if a gallon would do the whole airplane, it likely for me
wouldn't be worth the risks for the savings. I do not know exactly how
it will work out but avweb reported that Allegeny Co airport is
attempting to raise hanger rates from $500 to $1500 a month. If it
happens and AGC is not far from my house, either there are more people
around with more money than I thought, or there is going to be a mass
goodbye filling up every hanger around for miles.
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing wood |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.528, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.07,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Gary Gower wrote:
> Mark,
>
> In USA there are LOTS of airstrips and little airports everywhere,
>
> I dont think a Piet HAS to be in an airport (I mean paved as
> airport) , a good grass airstrip where you can rent a piece of land
> (30 x 20 ft) and build a simple "T" hanger will do.
> Even one you could desasemble if you buy a space someplace in a near
> future.
>
> I visited Texas (Houston) a couple of years ago, and there are
> hundreds of strips and little airports around, Well is BIG
> Texas...But I think where you live could happen something similar,
> just look around while you build your project...
>
> Maybe I am wrong but could work...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
A Piet probably would be better off grass, but there are only a couple
near me and the hangar space I know right now is full. In western PA
you also have terrain problems. The only ground that is even close to
level was created with a bulldozer. The locals call them hills, but
many I would call small mountains. If I were still in the south, Id
find a farmer with a long pasture and a barn. The possibility of
putting up some sort of cover is there, but even the little grass strips
have lots of trouble when extra buildings show up. The tax man cometh.
Its like the attorney that ask for a delay on the grounds that his
client had some cash somewhere that he didn't know about.
It will be a while before its an issue for sure, but at this stage of
the game I do not want to not do something that I could have done to
make it a viable option even its just for a short time. I would lots
rather hanger it. Yet if it can't be done, it can't be done and I don't
want to work that hard on something to watch it rot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Elevator control cable connections |
John,
Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com. I
have some pictures of the control systems and fittings on there.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John and
Phyllis Smoyer
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator control cable connections
I'm trying to figure out how to connect control cables from the bellcrank to
the elevator control horns. Many of the photos I've seen on the matronics
site show connection to the horns through a u-shaped shackle.
I haven't yet found any pictures that show the connection to the aft side of
the bell crank. Are turnbuckles used at this connection? Do you connect
two sets of cables, one to the left elevator horn, and one to the right
elevator horn to the hole on the aft end of the bell crank? If so, what are
the fittings to use at that point?
Thanks to everyone on this list for the great info and advice that's passed
back and forth.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I hooked up the P-lead, bolted on the prop, filled the aluminum radiator with water
and poured in 5 quarts of oil.....
And before long a Model A in Plano came to life.....
(Ok, NOT before long but I'll leave out all the details about the arm numbing propping,
flooding the carb numerous times and finally realizing the mag was 180
degrees off)
The old water pump is leaking a bit but other than that, she purred.....
Water temp and oil pressure good.....
What an incredible sound......
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
What do you do after building a Piet? I gathered as many volunteers as possible
and am giving this a try. I'm leaving the climbing to my son and son in law.
It has been quite a hand full so far, but I'm enjoying it. It will be 60x60
with 18' walls and be stocked with cold beer at all times for visitors. I am
building this at Osceola, Wi. I will have space available for rental next spring.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator control cable connections |
Why not just make a cable that is long enough to reach from the aft of the rudder
to the bell crank and back again, with a thimble and swedge fitting at the
bell crank. Then fit a shackle to the bell crank. Leave the extra length on
the ends while you attach your turnbuckles and use "U" type clamps to temp secure
the cables to the turnbuckles till you are sure of the finished length. Then
you won't have lots of spare pieces of cable ( too short for anything) laying
around like I do.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Phyllis Smoyer
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator control cable connections
I'm trying to figure out how to connect control cables from the bellcrank to
the elevator control horns. Many of the photos I've seen on the matronics site
show connection to the horns through a u-shaped shackle.
I haven't yet found any pictures that show the connection to the aft side of
the bell crank. Are turnbuckles used at this connection? Do you connect two
sets of cables, one to the left elevator horn, and one to the right elevator horn
to the hole on the aft end of the bell crank? If so, what are the fittings
to use at that point?
Thanks to everyone on this list for the great info and advice that's passed back
and forth.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: It's alive!!! |
Jim,
I LOVE stories like that !! I can just hear that ol Model A pucketa,
pucketa, pucketa !! Another milestone, for sure !! Congrats !!
Chuck G
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Way to go, Jim!
I know the feeling of having the mags 180 degrees off. My brand new
Slicks came with the leads marked wrong. When I first tried to start my
Continental it would only run on two cylinders. Once I swapped the
ignition leads around the other two started working and it ran whole
bunches better.
How close are you to flying it?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
I hooked up the P-lead, bolted on the prop, filled the aluminum radiator
with water and poured in 5 quarts of oil.....
And before long a Model A in Plano came to life.....
(Ok, NOT before long but I'll leave out all the details about the arm
numbing propping, flooding the carb numerous times and finally realizing
the mag was 180 degrees off)
The old water pump is leaking a bit but other than that, she purred.....
Water temp and oil pressure good.....
What an incredible sound......
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Way to go Jim!!
Like everyone says, the best way to look at this Piet building thing is as a bunch
of smaller projects. The engine is definetely one of the more rewarding ones!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: It's alive!!! |
Jim,
Looking through my piles of JUNK I collected during my ole car restoring
years I discovered I have 2 A Model carbs. A MOCHI cast iron body, heavier than
hell, and an after market of unknown mfg. If you have need of either or both
send me your mailing address.
Someone in La trying to get rid of a lot of stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's alive!!! |
This thing could fly next summer. With a 5 and 7 year old sons, house remodeling
AND work, who knows! Aside from the millions of little things left, the wood
parts are all done and the fittings are all done. So I can probably say 90%
done if I would just accept some of the things I've already completed but would
like to do differently.
But annoyances like the email I just received telling me I need to be in Des Moines
this Thursday and Las Vegas for most of next week...well, that stuff gets
in the way!
I actually believe next summer is doable though.....
Thanks for the note/congrats (from everyone on the list)!
Now to figure out to avoid the blisters I have on BOTH of my middle fingers and
those new aches and pains I woke up with this morning.....
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
Way to go, Jim!
I know the feeling of having the mags 180 degrees off. My brand new Slicks came
with the leads marked wrong. When I first tried to start my Continental it
would only run on two cylinders. Once I swapped the ignition leads around the
other two started working and it ran whole bunches better.
How close are you to flying it?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:29 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
I hooked up the P-lead, bolted on the prop, filled the aluminum radiator with
water and poured in 5 quarts of oil.....
And before long a Model A in Plano came to life.....
(Ok, NOT before long but I'll leave out all the details about the arm numbing
propping, flooding the carb numerous times and finally realizing the mag was
180 degrees off)
The old water pump is leaking a bit but other than that, she purred.....
Water temp and oil pressure good.....
What an incredible sound......
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
Jim,
How far is Collinsville, OK from Fort Worth, Texas? I might want to drive
up and take a look.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's on First?
I live at Collinsville,OK. Probably a 3 hr. drive but you are welcome to look,
take all the pictures and talk all you want. I have a corvair powered Piet
that has been flying since 1995. You can contact me at jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
or 918-371-9624 if you are interested. JIM BALLEW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRichmo9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
it 259 miles tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator control cable connections |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
John,
Attached is a photo showing how I attached my cables to the bellcrank,
and to the control horns. I put the turnbuckles at the horns to make
adjustments easier (it is a bear to safety wire turnbuckles - doing it
inside the fuselage at the bellcrank would be very difficult). I had to
make a pair of fittings to attach the cables from the control stick to
the bellcrank as shown. The turnbuckles would not fit over the
bellcrank. I used standard AN115 shackles for attachment everywhere I
had a cable atach to a fitting without a turnbuckle. Those puppies are
expensive (about $5 each from Aicraft Spruce). You would do well to
count how many you will need, then buy them from B&B Aircraft Supplies
at OSH or SNF. Much cheaper.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John and
Phyllis Smoyer
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator control cable connections
I'm trying to figure out how to connect control cables from the
bellcrank to the elevator control horns. Many of the photos I've seen
on the matronics site show connection to the horns through a u-shaped
shackle.
I haven't yet found any pictures that show the connection to the aft
side of the bell crank. Are turnbuckles used at this connection? Do
you connect two sets of cables, one to the left elevator horn, and one
to the right elevator horn to the hole on the aft end of the bell crank?
If so, what are the fittings to use at that point?
Thanks to everyone on this list for the great info and advice that's
passed back and forth.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a kit project, Hangar, the second home. |
Congratulations Dick,
We did the same here, We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What
we are doing next, (hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with
a bed and bathroom for friends pilots visiting. Will be something simple,
but given that the nearest hotel is about 5 miles away, is confrotable for an
overnight flying visiter.
We also have our motorhome parked and hooked here, a good extra when flying early,
We stay since the afternoon and we are ready for the early morning departure,
no rush at dawn in the freeway, safer also.
Probably is my first step towards my weekend and future retirement home...
You will be happy with your new project...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Dick Navratil wrote:
What do you do after building a Piet? I gathered as many volunteers as possible
and am giving this a try. I'm leaving the climbing to my son and son in law.
It has been quite a hand full so far, but I'm enjoying it. It will be 60x60
with 18' walls and be stocked with cold beer at all times for visitors. I am
building this at Osceola, Wi. I will have space available for rental next spring.
Dick N.
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator control cable connections |
If you guys insist on paying $5 ea for shackles that is sure your priv. But
I will once again give you a tip given me by Joe C. Go to Home Depot, wire
rope section, for Attwood stainless steel EYE STRAPS, 1/2 ". You get 2 for about
$ 1.50. Bend the ears around in a vise and you have a perfect shackle,
strong and light. $ 1.50 vs $10.00 plus freight. No way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
Collinsville is about 10 miles north of Tulsa. It takes me about 4.5 hours
to go to the American Airlines training center in Fort Worth if that helps.
Just give a little advanced notice. I'm available most of the time. There are
three other Piets on the field which I can probably get you a look at least a
couple of them.
JIM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's on First? |
Jim,
Sounds good to me. We might even get Jim Markle to go along
for the ride.
I now live in Ponder......just north of the Texas Motorspeedway.
It would be good to see some other planes too.
Thanks Jim.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's on First?
Collinsville is about 10 miles north of Tulsa. It takes me about 4.5 hours to
go to the American Airlines training center in Fort Worth if that helps. Just
give a little advanced notice. I'm available most of the time. There are
three other Piets on the field which I can probably get you a look at least a
couple of them.
JIM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator control cable connections |
Thanks for the great advice. This will get the project moving again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | slowbilder(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Aileron Cable Friction |
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Dick/group---- I was using 1/2" diam bungee cord from Wicks but the last
time I ordered it the supposed 1/2" stuff was
more like 5/8" and was a real pain to work with and it didn't give worth a
hoot. I won't order from them anymore. I found
a bunch of places on the web that sell bungee cord and got some true 1/2"
stuff that works very well.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
I have taped the gap on the top of the airleron.Is it necessary to tape
the bottom of the gap?The same question applies for the bottom surface
of the elevator?I think I remember a letter a while back where some guys
were taping the rudder as well;am I correct in this?This is probably
stuff already covered and I apologise for this but I can't seem to find
the info in the archives.Thanks for any info in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Hangar, the second home |
Gary wrote-
>We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing next,
>(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
>bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down to
Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In my
case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to a
screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be good
therapy for me ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hangar, the second home |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Oscar! So sorry to hear of your loss. I know there is nothing anyone
can do to ease the pain, other than to be friends to you. You know you
have many, many friends here on this list - even those of us who have
never met you in person.
Blue skies and Tailwinds,
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
Gary wrote-
>We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing
next,
>(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
>bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down
to
Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going.
In my
case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came
to a
screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for
a
couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
therapy for me ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hangar, the second home |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
My deepest sympathy Oscar. May your memories of him be cherished till
you meet him again. So sorry to hear of your loss.
Steve Eldredge
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
Gary wrote-
>We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing
next,
>(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
>bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down
to
Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going.
In my
case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came
to a
screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for
a
couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
therapy for me ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar, the second home |
I am very sorry to hear of your loss.Get flying again and go flyin for
him.Reach out your hand and touch the face of God.
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Gary wrote-
>
> >We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing next,
> >(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
> >bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
>
> Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down to
> Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In my
> case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
> stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
> middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to a
> screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
> vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
> couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
>
> But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be good
> therapy for me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar, the second home |
Hello Oscar,
Really sorry to heat that, our deepest simpathy for your family, our prayers
will be with all of you...
When ever you decide to come over to visit this area, (overhead rooms or not,
Piet or comercial flight) just drop a note, we will be pleased to show you around...
The next 29 Oct (saturday) will be our Clubs Aniversary Flyinn, I am sure (hope)
that Javier Cruz will visit, so if you want to join us, just let us know...
Same to other members, just let us know...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
Gary wrote-
>We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing next,
>(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
>bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down to
Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In my
case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to a
screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be good
therapy for me ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Hangar, the second home |
Oscar-- Jack is right about you having many friends here from the list and
every parent
dreads going thru what you and your wife are enduring. Keep the faith and
know that
via e-mail or in person with a handshake at Brodhead, you've got a whole
family here
rooting for you.
It is pretty neat to get to Brodhead these days because you get to know
people pretty
well via e-mail and when you actually meet up, you already feel like you
have known them
a long time. Jim Markle, Dick N. John Hoffman, Javier Cruz, Jack
Phillips, and others.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hangar, the second home |
Oscar,
Prayers, and best wishes to you and your family. It's hard to imagine the
grief you are going through right now, but know you have the the support of
everyone in the Pietenpol Community.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar, the second home |
I'm so sorry and saddened by your loss.
As a single parent of three, this makes me feel hollow inside.
I wish you strength.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
>
> Gary wrote-
>
> >We built a big hangar in our space in the Club. What we are doing next,
> >(hope next year) is two small overhead rooms in the top with a bed and
> >bathroom for friends pilots visiting.
>
> Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down to
> Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In
my
> case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
> stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
> middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to
a
> screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
> vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
> couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
>
> But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
> therapy for me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cable Friction |
In a message dated 10/4/2005 10:00:19 PM Central Standard Time,
slowbilder(at)comcast.net writes:
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and
found that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I
took a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the
hard maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the
friction in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running
through wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
Bob,
It seems you've pinpointed the location where most of your friction is. My
guess is that you don't have the hole in the hard maple fairleads big enough
for the cables to pass through freely. For my fairleads, I glued a piece of
1/4" plywood to the spars with T88, and screwed the hardwood fairleads to the
1/4" plywood, to eliminate violating the spars with any screws. I made saw cuts
in the hardwood for the cable to pass through, which were at least 1 1/2 times
the diameter of the cable...plenty of room. Two screws for each fairlead,
which makes them removable. My aileron control is a very free, and smooth
movements, with NO slop, or play. I have Never lubricated the fairleads...it's
a
good thought, though. Another area which you probably already checked, is
the pulleys. Do they have ball bearings, or brass bushings ? Are they
lubricated well ? Do they work freely without the cable in them ? Is the cable
fouling on the guides that keep the cables in the groove of the pulley ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airleron gap |
In a message dated 10/5/2005 7:16:35 AM Central Standard Time,
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca writes:
I have taped the gap on the top of the airleron.Is it necessary to tape
the bottom of the gap?The same question applies for the bottom surface
of the elevator?I think I remember a letter a while back where some guys
were taping the rudder as well;am I correct in this?This is probably
stuff already covered and I apologise for this but I can't seem to find
the info in the archives.Thanks for any info in advance.
Harvey,
I posted before about how I sealed the gaps in the ailerons (barn door
hinges), elevators (flippers), and rudder - Vi Kappler hinges.
Before I applied any paint, I used fabric material, applied with fabric
adhesive, on both sides of the gaps, at all the control surfaces. I view this
method as a permanent one, as opposed to using any type of tape. I'm sure the
tape will eventually loose it's sticky adhesive, and you will have to re-do it.
I'm into my fourth summer of flying my plane, with no signs of problems at the
gaps. If I had to do it again, I would do it the same way I did.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ford" <Jford(at)indstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar, the second home |
Oscar,
You have my deepest sympathies. Hang in there.
John
John Ford
john(at)indstate.edu
812-237-8542
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
-- Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wheels, seat belts |
I'm trying to get my Piet fuselage up on the landing gear (Jenny style) and
have been debating all the pros and cons of motorcycle wheels and the
custom-hub spoked wheels. One possibility that occurred to me was the use of solid
aluminum disc wheels as used on the front of Harley-Davidson "fat boy"
motorcycles. I very much like the looks of these wheels -- they have a 1920s-30s
look--
they aren't too expensive on e-Bay and I believe they would eliminate the
worry about side loads. Does anyone on the Piet list have any experience with
these wheels -- either on a Piet or on your H-D? I believe they weigh about 19
lbs
-- how does that compare to spoked wheels with a wide hub? The only concern
I have is that they take a 3/4-inch dia. axle but I'm thinking these wheels
can be bored out for a larger axle and bearing.
I'd also be interested in ideas on where to get good seat belts/shoulder
harness at reasonable cost. I think someone mentioned a source of stock car or
drag racing harnesses at a very attractive price...
It is about to turn cold up here -- believe it already has for the Pieters in
the MSP and north region...in fact, I believe they had snow showers up in
North Dakota/Northwestern Minnesota...weird -- we had mid 80s yesterday, 40s or
less tonight!
Regards,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/04/05 |
Guys,
My status: I joined this club about a month ago right after I bought a completed
Piet fuze and some wing ribs. My set of original Piet plans arrived Saturday.
I am shopping for a Corvair engine and many parts. It's already fun, and
looks like 2000 steps from here.
My problem: Bernie could have built the pilot's cockpit longer and deeper, and
the seat higher. I am a big guy (270#) with big feet and old bad knees, and
I just will not fold the right way to make the seat design work. [The seat is
per original design.]
If I sit on the little low seat, my 13Es will barely go through the holes, but
won't come back out, like a fish trap. Bare feet fit. (This I can fix by widening
the holes, but still may have to fly with bicycle shoes.) However, seated
like that my feet are even with the front of the passenger's seat. I don't
think I could either stand that posture for long or have good rudder pedal control.
My solution: I could add 5-7 inches to the height of the seat, maybe with a little
plywood box 4" thick (for goggles and the like?), and sit on top of that a
1-2" thick padded insert that better fits my back. (The plywood alone feels
like a church pew, and reminds me of the many sins of my overindulged body.)
The "box" and padding should weigh about 8 lbs. max. and greatly improve the man-machine
interface. I plan to experiment to see just how little higher I can
go and fit just well enough. I know that 7" more-- the height of a small toolbox--
works well.
Here are my related questions:
1. Should I also extend the height of the instrument panel, and or windshield?
(I hope so, for I want the wind in my hair, not my face.) What are the complications
of that, other than slightly more drag??
2. Specifically, either with or without higher fuze infrastructure, will my higher
body introduce unacceptable turbulence on the rudder? [FYI, I have the short
fuze-- 13.5 feet from the firewall to tail.]
3. If my modifications would be workable, should I not also raise the height of
the cabanes and other wing attachments, to reduce turbulence from the wing onto
the pilot and taller fuze, and better allow pilot entry to the cockpit?
4. Should I take apart the current rear turtledeck and raise it up higher, to
help reduce turbulence, or would this make matters worse?
5. Has anyone done any of this?
Tim in central TX
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/04/05 |
Compared to my last question, which might be a deal-killer, this one is simple.
Can we use 5" or 6" ultralight wheels on a Piet? I would guess not. I see
a number of these on ebay.
BTW, I am fairly much committed to the Piper style split landing gear with cross
rods and springs rather than bungees. What is the best solution and source
for wheels for this design?
Thanks,
Tim
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheels, seat belts |
Fred
If you can get the wheels from a 2000- newer Harley, they will accept the 1" bearing
from the rear wheel. Some of the very recent wheels are already equiped
with a 1" bearing. I checked around and wasn't able to locate a satisfactory
bearing for a larger dia axle. Therefore, what I did, was to use a 1 1/2" x.188
axle which needs to be reduced, with a 1 1/8x.058 sleeve 2' on each end and
a 24" piece of 1" 4340 steel rod in each end. The 1 1/8" sleeve will need to
be reduced by a few thousandths to slid in, but the rest is fairly easy.
In addition to this, the Harley brake rotors and the 1" rear wheel calipers will
fit right on.
dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels, seat belts
I'm trying to get my Piet fuselage up on the landing gear (Jenny style) and have
been debating all the pros and cons of motorcycle wheels and the custom-hub
spoked wheels. One possibility that occurred to me was the use of solid aluminum
disc wheels as used on the front of Harley-Davidson "fat boy" motorcycles.
I very much like the looks of these wheels -- they have a 1920s-30s look--
they aren't too expensive on e-Bay and I believe they would eliminate the worry
about side loads. Does anyone on the Piet list have any experience with these
wheels -- either on a Piet or on your H-D? I believe they weigh about 19 lbs
-- how does that compare to spoked wheels with a wide hub? The only concern
I have is that they take a 3/4-inch dia. axle but I'm thinking these wheels can
be bored out for a larger axle and bearing.
I'd also be interested in ideas on where to get good seat belts/shoulder harness
at reasonable cost. I think someone mentioned a source of stock car or drag
racing harnesses at a very attractive price...
It is about to turn cold up here -- believe it already has for the Pieters in
the MSP and north region...in fact, I believe they had snow showers up in North
Dakota/Northwestern Minnesota...weird -- we had mid 80s yesterday, 40s or less
tonight!
Regards,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Come on Jim, accept it the way it is!! I have been going to therapy weekly
to overcome the urge to continually improve parts. I have succeeded and
will not ever again rebuild anything - as soon as I redo the control
stick....
Ted
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
So I can probably say 90% done if I would just accept some of the things
I've already completed but would
like to do differently.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | slowbilder(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cable Friction |
Thanks Chuck. The pulley bushing lubrication was on my list as the next item for
improvement. I have my fairleades screwed to 1/4" plywood pads as you do,
and have had occasion to remove and replace some of them. It can be a little
challenging in a wing that is already covered.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
In a message dated 10/4/2005 10:00:19 PM Central Standard Time, slowbilder(at)comcast.net
writes:
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
Bob,
It seems you've pinpointed the location where most of your friction is. My guess
is that you don't have the hole in the hard maple fairleads big enough for
the cables to pass through freely. For my fairleads, I glued a piece of 1/4"
plywood to the spars with T88, and screwed the hardwood fairleads to the 1/4"
plywood, to eliminate violating the spars with any screws. I made saw cuts in
the hardwood for the cable to pass through, which were at least 1 1/2 times the
diameter of the cable...plenty of room. Two screws for each fairlead, which
makes them removable. My aileron control is a very free, and smooth movements,
with NO slop, or play. I have Never lubricated the fairleads...it's a good
thought, though. Another area which you probably already checked, is the
pulleys. Do they have ball bearings, or brass bushings ? Are they lubricated
well ? Do they work freely without the cable in them ? Is the cable fouling
on the guides that keep the cables in the groove of
the pulley ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Thanks Chuck. The pulley bushing lubrication was on my list as the next item for
improvement. I have my fairleades screwed to 1/4" plywood pads as you do,and
have had occasion to remove and replace some of them. It can be a little challenging
in a wing thatis already covered.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
In a message dated 10/4/2005 10:00:19 PM Central Standard Time, slowbilder(at)comcast.net
writes:
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
Bob,
It seems you've pinpointed the location where most of your friction is. My guess
is that you don't have the hole in the hard maple fairleads big enough for the
cables to pass through freely. For my fairleads, I glued a piece of 1/4" plywood
to the spars with T88, and screwed the hardwood fairleads to the 1/4" plywood,
to eliminate violating the spars with any screws. I made saw cuts in the
hardwood for the cable to pass through, which were at least 1 1/2 times the
diameter of the cable...plenty of room. Two screws for each fairlead, which makes
them removable. My aileron control is a very free, and smooth movements, with
NO slop, or play.I have Never lubricated the fairleads...it's a good thought,
though. Another area which you probably already checked, is the pulleys. Do
they have ball bearings, or brass bushings ? Are they lubricated well ? Do they
work freely without the cable in them ?
; Is the cable fouling on the guides that keep the cables in the groove of the
pulley ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carden <flywrite(at)erols.com> |
I'm trying to decide what method to use to absorb landing gear shock.
Hans van der Voort sent me a beautiful drawing of a spring-loaded gear
leg, but that requires making two legs. I've been wondering about an
axle-located absorber composed of a series of rubber donuts, a la
Mooney, but more of them and not nearly so big around. I'd appreciate
input. Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big rims (21")
for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber weigh 18 lbs. I weighed
another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either) and they were about the same,
though they had smaller rims. So you're going to be a bit heavier with tires,
but maybe not out of the ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as long as your
hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use standard narrow hubs,
it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of everything
before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc) because these planes
need to be kept light.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Just to add fuel to the "Wheel Side Loading" fire, when I had my forced
landing and groundloop last fall, about the only thing that DIDN'T break
were my 6" wide custom machined hubs for my wire wheels. Wheels still
roll true - no wobble. Jenny-style undercarriage also came through
without a scratch. Very strong.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big
rims (21") for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber
weigh 18 lbs. I weighed another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either)
and they were about the same, though they had smaller rims. So you're
going to be a bit heavier with tires, but maybe not out of the
ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as
long as your hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use
standard narrow hubs, it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of
everything before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc)
because these planes need to be kept light.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | do I need brakes |
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I wanted
to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or would it work
with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need brakes. I'm
just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair- new update |
William Wynne has added some info to his firewall forward update (wiring
tips, oil pans, and other things) at the top of
http://flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | do I need brakes |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
You need brakes if you have a tailwheel on pavement. When I was getting
mine ready for the first flight my brakes did not work very well and it
was very scary trying to maneuver it on the ramp with only tailwheel
steering. With those big wheels it rolls very well and doesn't slow
down, even with the engine idling. Unless your airport has a very wide
ramp with nothing on it (certainly nothing expensive to hit), you will
want brakes, preferably differential braking.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do I need brakes
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I
wanted to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or
would it work with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need
brakes. I'm just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAhaGeOmeskkZgCu0Z7N8SeKfMg6sCFGrFTo3QGiHOVtRPB0hl2lefvJ5B
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Do I need brakes? |
Hi Douwe: The airport I will most likely be flying out of has grass
next to the paved runways, so no brakes and skid probably would have
been no problem, but the occasional Lear Jet and expensive spam cans
made me decide to use brakes and steerable tail wheel. A minor taxi
accident would have eliminated any thought of retirement sooner than
about 75 years from now. Leon S. Keeping it lite in Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: do I need brakes |
What sold me on brakes was a tale posted on the web (by whome?) where someone
was blown backwards towards another airplane by the propwash of an airplane in
front of him. Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do I need brakes
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I wanted
to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or would it work
with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need brakes. I'm
just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | wire wheel hub width |
Guys-- I have never heard of any Pietenpol wire wheel folding over or
failing during a ground loop or side
loads--be it stock motorcycle wheels and hubs or home made.
What I HAVE heard of is Craig Aho's Piet (before it burned up in a hangar
fire) in Washington state wheel
collapsing and it was due to lack of proper tensioning of his spokes. He
told me this directly over there phone.
The first landing was fine, but the second--one wheel collapsed on his test
pilot. The other wheel showed the problem.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | keeping your weight down |
Douwe--- when we spoke at Brodhead it was very apparent to me that you are
trying to keep your plane
as light as possible with your Ford engine. You have several things going
in your favor: primarily that you
are not a heavy guy at all, and secondly this list as a great resource.
If I were to build another Pietenpol but with a Ford engine, I would
incorporate brakes and a tailwheel for
safety and versatility reasons. There will be fly-in's you might want to
take your plane to that don't have
grass and you'll be much more comfortable with the controlability factor
having a steerable tailwheel and
differential braking as Jack P. mentioned.
You can find some really reasonable ATV brakes on line these days---be they
cable or hydraulically actuated.
You don't need powerful brakes on a Piet at all since you only use them for
run up and slower taxi speeds.
If you need them for situations other than those----you have screwed
up:) (been there)
The way to keep your weight down in my book is (if airspace allows)
1) don't use heavy epoxies to seal your wood. Let the varnish cure for two
mos. or so before fabric covering
and prior to fabric, spray or brush a coat or two of Dupont 222S sanding
sealer. It goes on like water and dried
in about 1/2 hour.
2) use the 1.7 oz fabric everywhere.
3) don't use more screws or bigger screws that you need on your cowling or
cockpit cover areas.
4) don't use any heavier than .024" alum. for your cowling areas and keep
the brackets very simple and light-- see Bingelis for great ideas here.
5) don't have front cockpit instruments
6) build the short fuse if you can
7) no electrical system, no started, no generator, no battery, no air
conditioner, no heated seats, no strobe lights no rear window defroster.
8) no upholstery--if you need some cushion for your rear, make it light
and just for the seat bottom.
9) use aluminum rims if using wire wheels, not steel.
10) Fill wings with helium filled ping pong balls:))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Yet one more spoked wheel weight... |
Ken Perkins' built 6" wide hubs, 21"x 1.85 aluminum rims, steel spokes/nipples,
300S21 (3" wide) tires (26" outside height inflated), 1.125" X 8" steel brake
disc, the tire is filled with helium to reduce weight....(ok, just kidding...)
19.5# (according to a digital scale that has NOT been kind to me so the tire probably
ACTUALLY weighs less. :-)
JIm in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big rims (21")
for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber weigh 18 lbs. I
weighed another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either) and they were about the
same, though they had smaller rims. So you're going to be a bit heavier with
tires, but maybe not out of the ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as long as
your hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use standard narrow hubs,
it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of everything
before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc) because these planes
need to be kept light.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Glad to hear that you guys made it all the way across the country without
getting attacked by wild indians or something. Was great meeting and talking
with you at Broadhead.
Rick Holland
On 9/22/05, clem wrote:
>
> The two New Zealanders - Clem & Dave - drove across USA in a rental car,
> 5550 miles. We met some wonderful people during our trip . A special thanks
> to Carl and Ann Lekven for their offers of hospitality. We met amazing
> people at Brodhead. It was great to meet the people I have followed on this
> site over the years. I loved Lowell Frank's radial engined Piet.
> Regards
> Clem Boyd
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Do I need brakes? |
Remembert that when flying around, to other airports, Murphy will shurely make
you land in a paved only airport... Just only one incident with an expensive
"something" and the fun is over.
Flying some Xcountry is part of the fun...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Leon Stefan wrote:
Hi Douwe: The airport I will most likely be flying out of has grass
next to the paved runways, so no brakes and skid probably would have
been no problem, but the occasional Lear Jet and expensive spam cans
made me decide to use brakes and steerable tail wheel. A minor taxi
accident would have eliminated any thought of retirement sooner than
about 75 years from now. Leon S. Keeping it lite in Ks.
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | discouraged corvair builder - help! |
Any corvair builders out there who may be able to offer some advice or encouragement...
I'm really having trouble with my heads. Reading the WW manual basically I was
expecting to be able to find a pair of heads with good guides, seats, etc, that
would just need cleaning, new springs and a valve job.. Well I've bought (2)
sets of heads to find that for one reason or another, they need extensive work.
The best pair needs guides, all new exhaust valves, several new seats, possibly
fly cutting of the cylinder head mating surfaces, plus the valve job and
cleaning. I've got about $240 wrapped up in them so far and still have about
$400-$500 left..
Now the machine shop told me tonight when I brought my new pistons in that the
rods are very egg shaped and they may not be able to get them back to tolerance..
Plus, maybe it's no big deal, but I had them install ARP rod bolts - they
installed them prior to glass beading the rods so the bolts are glass beaded
too.. Maybe not a big deal but it seems that they would have done that after
the glass beading..
The pistons I ordered from Clark's have a slightly different part number than the
ones suggested in the WW manual L2206F. It looks like they have a coating
on the skirt where as the L2206 does not. Does this make a difference? I haven't
been able to reach WW as I'm sure they're super busy in the post Oshkosh
orders...
Any help or encouragement would be appreciated.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheels, seat belts |
On Wed Oct 05 at 4:47 PM, TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
I'd also be interested in ideas on where to get good seat
belts/shoulder harness at reasonable cost. I think someone
mentioned a source of stock car or drag racing harnesses at
a very attractive price...
Regards, Fred B. La Crosse, WI
Fred,
See http://www.ch601.org/tools/harness/crowharness-rev1.3.pdf
for details of the harness I'm using in my Zodiac. It might be suitable for
the Pietenpol. Talk to Fred Crow (contact details and web site are at the
top of page three in the PDF) about any customization you might need. He has
a copy of the Zodiac installation manual and isn't worried about people
using the harness in homebuilt aircraft. Please note that I'm not flying
with this harness yet but I first saw it a few years ago in the ultralight
area at Sun'n'Fun.
..neil
Zodiac 601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Charlie Rubeck has died. |
From the Brodhead Website (http://www.eaa431.org/):
Charlie Rubek, who for many years spent innumerable hours volunteering each year
at the Pietenpol Fly-In, has died. More details to come.
This was one VERY nice fellow.....
Many Piets are flying around with ribs he built....
I, for one, will miss his smile.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara |
Oscar,
God Bless you. I can't imagine how you must feel. When you are ready, I
will be looking forward to flying with you on the Piet "invasion" of
Guadalajara. In the meantime, enjoy that vacation as best you can and dream
about the "Invasion".
Ted
PS I hope the TSA doesn't intercept this message....
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
> > Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down
to
> Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In
my
> case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
> stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
> middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to
a
> screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
> vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
> couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
>
> But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
> therapy for me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara |
Hi Ted,Oscar and all,
I am sure that if this trip, or any other you all plan to visit Mexico by plane,
We all plan it with enough time, will be a great one, We all just need at least
a 2 or 3 week vacation,,, from there on, everyone will mark a limit in time...
Some pilots in our Club are planning a 4 day trip to the Veracruz coast (Central
Gulf) coast) in about 2 weeks. They are using the Jeppsen Flightstar and
the Google Earth program to follow the route though the mountains, Just like
the real thing!!!
I was very surprized,with this "Simulator" and a realy hope to join them in the
next one soon, Job permited...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Hope I was rich enough... :-)
Ted Brousseau wrote:
Oscar,
God Bless you. I can't imagine how you must feel. When you are ready, I
will be looking forward to flying with you on the Piet "invasion" of
Guadalajara. In the meantime, enjoy that vacation as best you can and dream
about the "Invasion".
Ted
PS I hope the TSA doesn't intercept this message....
> From: "Oscar Zuniga"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
> > Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down
to
> Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In
my
> case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
> stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
> middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to
a
> screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
> vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
> couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
>
> But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
> therapy for me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
This is sad. If you hadn't met him, you missed a genuine man with
energy and always willing to help and share knowledge. I'm glad I got
to joke with him at Brodhead 2004. Somehow it's fitting that his
efforts will be "lifting" the spirits of many for years and years to
come.
-------------------------------------------------------
Charlie Rubek, who for many years spent innumerable hours volunteering
each year at the Pietenpol Fly-In, has died. More details to come.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: discouraged corvair builder - help! |
Hi Tom
you might try the vair list for good (and bad) suggestions of where to go from
here. sounds like your dealing with a very expensive machine shop. might be worth
to keep on looking for another set of heads.
Del
"tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" wrote:
Any corvair builders out there who may be able to offer some advice or encouragement...
I'm really having trouble with my heads. Reading the WW manual basically I was
expecting to be able to find a pair of heads with good guides, seats, etc, that
would just need cleaning, new springs and a valve job.. Well I've bought (2)
sets of heads to find that for one reason or another, they need extensive work.
The best pair needs guides, all new exhaust valves, several new seats, possibly
fly cutting of the cylinder head mating surfaces, plus the valve job and
cleaning. I've got about $240 wrapped up in them so far and still have about $400-$500
left..
Now the machine shop told me tonight when I brought my new pistons in that the
rods are very egg shaped and they may not be able to get them back to tolerance..
Plus, maybe it's no big deal, but I had them install ARP rod bolts - they
installed them prior to glass beading the rods so the bolts are glass beaded too..
Maybe not a big deal but it seems that they would have done that after the
glass beading..
The pistons I ordered from Clark's have a slightly different part number than the
ones suggested in the WW manual L2206F. It looks like they have a coating on
the skirt where as the L2206 does not. Does this make a difference? I haven't
been able to reach WW as I'm sure they're super busy in the post Oshkosh orders...
Any help or encouragement would be appreciated.
Tom B.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks everyone for the brakes input.
I figured brakes were necessary.
Mike, how do you get the helium into the ping pong balls?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 10/06/05 |
Oscar,
I am sorry about your son. That has to be a terrible blow. That you can write
about it now is encouraging. I look forward to meeting you and talking Piets
later this year. Best wishes.
Tim
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 10/06/05 |
Fred B.,
Re seatbelts/harness, here's a link to the site you referenced, Summit Racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/
It looks like $60-70 per set plus freight will set you up.
Tim
===
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Charlie Rubeck |
I am truly sorry I missed meeting this man.We have some like him at our
airfield in Ottawa and they are missed when they go,that's for sure!
"Sayre, William G" wrote:
>
>
> This is sad. If you hadn't met him, you missed a genuine man with
> energy and always willing to help and share knowledge. I'm glad I got
> to joke with him at Brodhead 2004. Somehow it's fitting that his
> efforts will be "lifting" the spirits of many for years and years to
> come.
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Charlie Rubek, who for many years spent innumerable hours volunteering
> each year at the Pietenpol Fly-In, has died. More details to come.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
That isn't the hard part. Keeping it in is.
Stevee :-)
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes
Thanks everyone for the brakes input.
I figured brakes were necessary.
Mike, how do you get the helium into the ping pong balls?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhRzE3lU6sdCfzuPWdLRRpE8/948GAIUSarc/olw2iQSfyN03itfc2DK2+M=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/04/05 |
Tim: I am using ultralight type wheels and belive they should work fine.
I bought Heager stuff from AS&S. rather than something from E-Bay. My
original worry was that the 3/4" steel axels wouldn't be strong enough,
but I learned that several builders are flying (and landing) just fine
with 3/4" axels. Leon Stefan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | do I need brakes |
If you dont have brakes on pavment be ready to taxi when the engine starts.
P.S. Engine run ups with out brakes can be fun to watch !!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:31 AM
To: pietenpolgroup
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do I need brakes
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I
wanted to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or would
it work with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need brakes.
I'm just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
Heres A Pic I took late afternoon at sun-n-fun 2005 camp site about dusk .
It was late, but its how I will remimber Charle
Making Piet Ribs !!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sayre,
William G
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Charlie Rubeck
This is sad. If you hadn't met him, you missed a genuine man with
energy and always willing to help and share knowledge. I'm glad I got
to joke with him at Brodhead 2004. Somehow it's fitting that his
efforts will be "lifting" the spirits of many for years and years to
come.
-------------------------------------------------------
Charlie Rubek, who for many years spent innumerable hours volunteering
each year at the Pietenpol Fly-In, has died. More details to come.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's alive!!! |
I would have enjoyed this message a LOT more if I hadn't JUST taken MY
control stick back out to sandblast it and re-powder coat it a different
color.....it's usually easy to keep a distance from such comments but this
one hit home! :-)
Ok, I'm gonna stop changing things!
Well, I did change the timing on the mag this evening (yes, I need to find a
timing light so I can stop guessing!) and now all I have to do is push the
prop through about 5 degrees and she starts up....I was so impressed I HAD
to stop it and re start a bunch of times just because it was so darn easy.
If listening to that engine in my driveway is THIS much fun I can hardly
imagine what flying behind it will be like.....
I got a bit tense when I ran the rpm's up to about 1500 to test the new tach
I just installed this evening....and suddenly realized the prop was lifting
the tail up......PANIC time! I held her down and added another cinder block
to the tail.
Jim in plano....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
>
> Come on Jim, accept it the way it is!! I have been going to therapy
weekly
> to overcome the urge to continually improve parts. I have succeeded and
> will not ever again rebuild anything - as soon as I redo the control
> stick....
>
> Ted
>
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: It's alive!!!
>
> So I can probably say 90% done if I would just accept some of the things
> I've already completed but would
> like to do differently.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: It's alive!!! |
In a message dated 10/7/2005 10:32:14 PM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
I got a bit tense when I ran the rpm's up to about 1500 to test the new tach
I just installed this evening....and suddenly realized the prop was lifting
the tail up......PANIC time! I held her down and added another cinder block
to the tail.
Jim,
Ya know they say that Airplanes are inanimate objects...well we all know
different.
SHE WANTS TO FLY !!! She doesn't want you to keep piddling around with
cosmetic stuff...she simply Wants to Fly !! Please, give 'er what she wants !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oscar, Charlie, Thanks |
My deepest sympathies to Oscar Z. We've never met, Oscar, other than sharing
this list and a love of flying, but I send to you and your family my family's
thoughts and prayers.
I also am saddened to hear of Charlie Rubeck's passing. I talked to him a
little at Brodhead 2005. He was going in for surgery the following week, but I
didn't hear after that how it went...just very sad to hear that he is gone. I
purchased a set of his exquisite wing ribs at Brodhead 2004...I will send up a
prayer of thanks for Charlie -- especially when "his wings" lift my Piet for
the first time. We all fly on the wings of heroes like Charlie who have gone
before.
Last but not least, many thanks to everyone on this list for your invaluable
wisdom and advice. When our various Piets fly, I think it can be said that it
is certainly a team effort.
Best regards to all,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
He had open heart surgery last Friday, is still in ICU, vital signs are good. I
knew yesterday when he didn't show at a annual hog roast fly in something was
amiss.
He wouldn't admit it but I'll bet he'd like a card.
Shawnee Mission Medical Center
9100 W. 47th St.
Shawnee Mission, KS 66204
Lynn Knoll
Piet/Vair building
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | A little something |
<003601c5ca20$de010460$36384e0c@TedB>
<003501c5cbb8$dcc6e350$6501a8c0@demoprimus>
Here's a little something for those of us who just CAN'T leave anything
alone;
"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is
demoralizing."
~ Harriet Braiker
Clif :-) :-)
>
>
> I would have enjoyed this message a LOT more if I hadn't JUST taken MY
> control stick back out to sandblast it and re-powder coat it a different
> color.....it's usually easy to keep a distance from such comments but this
> one hit home! :-)
>
> Ok, I'm gonna stop changing things!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Vydra <jvydra(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I have listed a Ford Model A manual on ebay.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron question |
| From: | "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> |
Hi All,
Have a quick question on the layout of the wing ribs. When I lofted the dimensions
from the plans onto my rib jig, I noticed that everything lined up well with
the full size rib print except the rear-most vertical member in the rib.
The full size print has this part almost 1" further forward than what the plan
dimensions show. This will result in a shorter chord dimension on my finished
ailerons. Looking for what the finished dimension should be close to from the
hinge line to the trailing edge... would anyone be willing to throw a tape
measure on their aileron (OK - lay it gently on...) and see what you come with?
Currently am at the "got a bunch of big sticks and cut them into little sticks"
stage and am quickly gearing up for the "now glue them back together to make
ribs" stage.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron / Wing Chord Question |
In a message dated 10/12/2005 11:11:11 AM Central Standard Time,
danl(at)odayequipment.com writes:
Have a quick question on the layout of the wing ribs. When I lofted the
dimensions from the plans onto my rib jig, I noticed that everything lined up well
with the full size rib print except the rear-most vertical member in the rib.
The full size print has this part almost 1" further forward than what the
plan dimensions show. This will result in a shorter chord dimension on my
finished ailerons. Looking for what the finished dimension should be close to
from
the hinge line to the trailing edge... would anyone be willing to throw a
tape measure on their aileron (OK - lay it gently on...) and see what you come
with?
Currently am at the "got a bunch of big sticks and cut them into little
sticks" stage and am quickly gearing up for the "now glue them back together to
make ribs" stage.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Dan,
I built 2 extra ribs over 7 years ago. They make great wall hangings !!
Here are the results of the measurements that I just took:
From the aft edge of the rib (where the trailing edge goes) to the aft side
of the rear most vertical member is - 10 1/2". The plans call for 11 3/4".
From the aft edge of the rib to the fwd edge of the aft 1" spar opening - 23
3/16" The plans call for 24 1/2".
Between the openings of the 1" Spars - 27 3/4" The plans call for 27 3/4".
This is the most important dimension, because it is what the center section,
and lift strut points are built to.
I used 3/4" spars, therefore I had to use 1/8" shims on each side of the
spars, at each rib location. If I would do it again, I would build the ribs to
use 3/4" spars so I wouldn't have to shim them, yet maintain the center to
center dimension of the spars, which works out to be 28 3/4".
My total wing chord, with leading & trailing edges installed, came out to 60
1/8".
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron / Wing Chord Question |
| From: | "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> |
Thanks for the reply Chuck - your dimensions confirmed exactly what I was looking
for.
I have 10.5" also from the trailing edge attach point to the back of the vertical.
I figured that worst case, I would just need a bit more deflection to get
the same roll rate.
Pulled rib 3 off the jig and loaded rib 4 this morning.
Dan L.
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron / Wing Chord Question
I built 2 extra ribs over 7 years ago. They make great wall hangings !!
Here are the results of the measurements that I just took:
From the aft edge of the rib (where the trailing edge goes) to the aft side
of the rear most vertical member is - 10 1/2". The plans call for 11 3/4".
From the aft edge of the rib to the fwd edge of the aft 1" spar opening - 23
3/16" The plans call for 24 1/2".
Between the openings of the 1" Spars - 27 3/4" The plans call for 27 3/4".
This is the most important dimension, because it is what the center section,
and lift strut points are built to.
I used 3/4" spars, therefore I had to use 1/8" shims on each side of the
spars, at each rib location. If I would do it again, I would build the ribs to
use 3/4" spars so I wouldn't have to shim them, yet maintain the center to
center dimension of the spars, which works out to be 28 3/4".
My total wing chord, with leading & trailing edges installed, came out to 60
1/8".
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/12/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
This is really timely discussion for me. The parts I bought included 24 wing ribs,
which looks like not enough to build the wings, but perhaps enough to provide
all the ribs that don't have ailerons. That still leaves me about where
our ND builder is-- ahead in some ways, behind in others. I have the advantage
of having finished parts, but still have to build a rib jig and go from there.
Moreover, I have to make sure to duplicate in my jig and construction whatever
variances the former builder made from the blueprint.
Right now I can't move around much after knee surgery, but every day is better.
Next week I will check it all out. After measuring everything and looking over
all, I will be back.
BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is the picture of Chuck flying
his Piet while grinning under a leather flying helmet. That pic is in my head,
but titled, "That could be me!"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/12/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
This is really timely discussion for me. The parts I bought included 24 wing ribs,
which looks like not enough to build the wings, but perhaps enough to provide
all the ribs that don't have ailerons. That still leaves me about where
our ND builder is-- ahead in some ways, behind in others. I have the advantage
of having finished parts, but still have to build a rib jig and go from there.
Moreover, I have to make sure to duplicate in my jig and construction whatever
variances the former builder made from the blueprint.
Right now I can't move around much after knee surgery, but every day is better.
Next week I will check it all out. After measuring everything and looking over
all, I will be back.
BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is the picture of Chuck flying
his Piet while grinning under a leather flying helmet. That pic is in my head,
but titled, "That could be me!"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/13/2005 9:34:18 AM Central Standard Time,
strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com writes:
BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is the picture of Chuck
flying his Piet while grinning under a leather flying helmet. That pic is in my
head, but titled, "That could be me!"
That picture Will be you someday...just keep after it. Do something,
anything, every day, on your project. Even if it's just studying the plans, or
other literature that has something to do with the task you are currently
working on.
I'm tellin' ya what...that smile, fun & satisfaction I get from flying my
plane lasts until the next opportunity I get to fly 'er again !!
This evening I extended the envelope...I flew with the highest gross
weight I've ever had 'er to - 1150 lbs. A buddy o' mine, from work, who has never
seen anything like small airplanes very much, Squeezed his big ol' 240 lbs
into the front cockpit, and we went for a 20 minute flight in perfect flying
conditions !! I used the hard surface to take off, and did a 'Runway Hardness
Test' on the grass landing !! It's a blast to give folks like him, their first
experience at this type of flying !! I was certainly concerned with the climb
performance, but she managed about a 50 or 55 mph climb speed, with probably
about 100 fpm.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
Hi Friends
I have to visit St. Louis, Mo the next weekend, any Piet there?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Glad to hear they'll fly at 1150 lbs, Chuck. I'm planning to take mine
to a fly-in picnic this weekend and my girlfriend wants to go along.
With her and full fuel I will be right at 1150 (at 150 lbs, she's not
heavy, but my Pietenpol is). You have a little advantage flying in
Kansas - your airports aren't hacked out of a pine forest like ours are.
My home field and the one I will be flying into are 2,000 to 2,400 feet
long with 75 to 100 foot tall trees at each end. They also have pretty
steep slopes to the runway, with about a 100' difference in elevation
between the opposite ends of the runway.
Jack Phillips
Dodging trees in North Carolina
----Original Message-----
This evening I extended the envelope...I flew with the highest gross
weight I've ever had 'er to - 1150 lbs. A buddy o' mine, from work, who
has never seen anything like small airplanes very much, Squeezed his big
ol' 240 lbs into the front cockpit, and we went for a 20 minute flight
in perfect flying conditions !! I used the hard surface to take off,
and did a 'Runway Hardness Test' on the grass landing !! It's a blast
to give folks like him, their first experience at this type of flying !!
I was certainly concerned with the climb performance, but she managed
about a 50 or 55 mph climb speed, with probably about 100 fpm.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Continental Overhaul (piston placement) |
I'm reassembling my Continental A-80, destined for a stab on the firewall of my
Pietenpol project. I've rebuilt VW engines, a Lycoming 0-320 where it is critical
that the pistons are "aligned" the correct way on the wrist pin. (Sorry I'm
not being clear... only had 1/2 a cup of my morning coffee...) I learned this
lesson the hard way many, many years ago when a friend put one of his pistons
in wrong on a VW dune buggy. The piston made a bad clatter, but my friend pulled
the jug, rotated the piston 180 degrees and the engine ran fine afterwards.
The Continental manual states, "Install piston with the numbers towards the front
of the engine." Pistons on the VW and especially my Lycoming were marked very
well so that correct orientation was easily obtained, but the numbers on the
Continental piston are on both inside walls of the top and bottom skirt. There
is one very tiny circular stamp with a faint "10" on the top of the piston
heads, and am I to assume this is the number that "goes forward?" This "circle"
is placed directly over where one of the piston wrist pin plugs is located.
(I can e-mail a picture of this "circle" on top of the piston if anybody is interested...)
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
Central Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Any Piet on STL |
Javier--- there is Larry Nelson near St.Louis with his Model A Ford powered
Piet.
He's at: lnelson208(at)yahoo.com
Saludos--
Michael Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/12/05 |
I think I'm going to get a poster of Chuck's Grinning flying helmet picture
made up and hang it on my shop wall for inspiration...BTW..I got a copy of
Chuck's new video that he made about flying his Piet..He did a great job on
it and talk about inspiration...It's all there plus some flying tips..Nice
job Chuck...Ed Grentzer..
>From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Pietenpol-List Digest List
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/12/05
>Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:32:14 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>This is really timely discussion for me. The parts I bought included 24
>wing ribs, which looks like not enough to build the wings, but perhaps
>enough to provide all the ribs that don't have ailerons. That still leaves
>me about where our ND builder is-- ahead in some ways, behind in others. I
>have the advantage of having finished parts, but still have to build a rib
>jig and go from there. Moreover, I have to make sure to duplicate in my
>jig and construction whatever variances the former builder made from the
>blueprint.
>
>
>Right now I can't move around much after knee surgery, but every day is
>better. Next week I will check it all out. After measuring everything and
>looking over all, I will be back.
>
>
>BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is the picture of Chuck
>flying his Piet while grinning under a leather flying helmet. That pic is
>in my head, but titled, "That could be me!"
>
>
>---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep Building |
Oh SURE....Chuck won't take my fat 220# flying at
Brodhead '04....but he takes his fatter friend
flying........man, that really chaps my hide......here
I had to go out and buy my own.......-- Rcaprd(at)aol.com
wrote:
> In a message dated 10/13/2005 9:34:18 AM Central
> Standard Time,
> strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com writes:
> BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is
> the picture of Chuck
> flying his Piet while grinning under a leather
> flying helmet. That pic is in my
> head, but titled, "That could be me!"
> That picture Will be you someday...just keep
> after it. Do something,
> anything, every day, on your project. Even if it's
> just studying the plans, or
> other literature that has something to do with the
> task you are currently
> working on.
> I'm tellin' ya what...that smile, fun &
> satisfaction I get from flying my
> plane lasts until the next opportunity I get to fly
> 'er again !!
> This evening I extended the envelope...I flew
> with the highest gross
> weight I've ever had 'er to - 1150 lbs. A buddy o'
> mine, from work, who has never
> seen anything like small airplanes very much,
> Squeezed his big ol' 240 lbs
> into the front cockpit, and we went for a 20 minute
> flight in perfect flying
> conditions !! I used the hard surface to take off,
> and did a 'Runway Hardness
> Test' on the grass landing !! It's a blast to give
> folks like him, their first
> experience at this type of flying !! I was
> certainly concerned with the climb
> performance, but she managed about a 50 or 55 mph
> climb speed, with probably
> about 100 fpm.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any Piet on STL |
I am actually about 175 nm from STL in SGF...(or three
days flying in a Model A powered Pietenpol).....
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Javier--- there is Larry Nelson near St.Louis with
> his Model A Ford powered
> Piet.
>
> He's at: lnelson208(at)yahoo.com
>
> Saludos--
>
> Michael Cuy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | St. Louis-- not ! |
opps...sorry Larry ! Javier--- did you catch this ? Larry Nelson's
Piet is at
the Springfield-Branson Regional Airport.....got the right state, but the
wrong city !!!
My apologies, Larry !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep Building |
Sounds like he did you a favour!
Larry Nelson wrote:
>
>
> Oh SURE....Chuck won't take my fat 220# flying at
> Brodhead '04....but he takes his fatter friend
> flying........man, that really chaps my hide......here
> I had to go out and buy my own.......-- Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 10/13/2005 9:34:18 AM Central
> > Standard Time,
> > strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com writes:
> > BTW, one of my major inspirations in this project is
> > the picture of Chuck
> > flying his Piet while grinning under a leather
> > flying helmet. That pic is in my
> > head, but titled, "That could be me!"
> > That picture Will be you someday...just keep
> > after it. Do something,
> > anything, every day, on your project. Even if it's
> > just studying the plans, or
> > other literature that has something to do with the
> > task you are currently
> > working on.
> > I'm tellin' ya what...that smile, fun &
> > satisfaction I get from flying my
> > plane lasts until the next opportunity I get to fly
> > 'er again !!
> > This evening I extended the envelope...I flew
> > with the highest gross
> > weight I've ever had 'er to - 1150 lbs. A buddy o'
> > mine, from work, who has never
> > seen anything like small airplanes very much,
> > Squeezed his big ol' 240 lbs
> > into the front cockpit, and we went for a 20 minute
> > flight in perfect flying
> > conditions !! I used the hard surface to take off,
> > and did a 'Runway Hardness
> > Test' on the grass landing !! It's a blast to give
> > folks like him, their first
> > experience at this type of flying !! I was
> > certainly concerned with the climb
> > performance, but she managed about a 50 or 55 mph
> > climb speed, with probably
> > about 100 fpm.
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > NX770CG
> >
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/13/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks, Chuck.
I am doing what you suggest-- something every day. Yesterday I talked with my
future flight instructor, and we agreed on a program, starting in a month. I
also got my copy of Fisher's "Hot Rodding Corvairs" yesterday, and looked for
details not mentioned in WW's book. It has a lot of good valve and fluid flow
info.
Today I am seeing a water-jet cutter about fabricating the sheet steel parts.
I used to own and operate a 40 spindle machine shop, but have never worked with
sheet. My shop was all turning, boring, milling, drilling and tapping. I still
lust for my Hardinge lathes and Bridgeports, because they could do such precision
work. However, BP made it all so simple we don't need those things.
I learned a lot with that shop, and the sheet metal apps on the cowl will be
another entirely different growth experience.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/13/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks, Chuck.
I am doing what you suggest-- something every day. Yesterday I talked with my
future flight instructor, and we agreed on a program, starting in a month. I
also got my copy of Fisher's "Hot Rodding Corvairs" yesterday, and looked for
details not mentioned in WW's book. It has a lot of good valve and fluid flow
info.
Today I am seeing a water-jet cutter about fabricating the sheet steel parts.
I used to own and operate a 40 spindle machine shop, but have never worked with
sheet. My shop was all turning, boring, milling, drilling and tapping. I still
lust for my Hardinge lathes and Bridgeports, because they could do such precision
work. However, BP made it all so simple we don't need those things.
I learned a lot with that shop, and the sheet metal apps on the cowl will be
another entirely different growth experience.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/13/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks, Chuck.
I am doing what you suggest-- something every day. Wednesday I spent an hour just
looking at drawings. I concluded then that I may have to build the center
wing section out of scrap plywood first to see how it really goes together.
Or look at a finished Piet.
Yesterday I talked with my future flight instructor, and we agreed on a program,
starting in a month. I also received my ordered copy of Fisher's How to Hot
Rod Corvairs yesterday, and looked for details not mentioned in WW's book. It
has a lot of good valve seating and fluid flow info.
Today I am seeing a water-jet cutter about fabricating the sheet steel parts.
[I used to own and operate a 40 spindle machine shop, but have never worked with
sheet. My shop was all turning, boring, milling, drilling and tapping. I
still lust for my Hardinge lathes and Bridgeports, because they could do such
precision work. However, BP made it all so simple we don't need those things.]
I learned a lot with that shop, and the sheet metal apps on the cowl will be
another entirely different growth experience. Rivet!
This is so much fun.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/13/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks, Chuck.
I am doing what you suggest-- something every day. Wednesday I spent an hour just
looking at drawings. I concluded then that I may have to build the center
wing section out of scrap plywood first to see how it really goes together.
Or look at a finished Piet.
Yesterday I talked with my future flight instructor, and we agreed on a program,
starting in a month. I also received my ordered copy of Fisher's How to Hot
Rod Corvairs yesterday, and looked for details not mentioned in WW's book. It
has a lot of good valve seating and fluid flow info.
Today I am seeing a water-jet cutter about fabricating the sheet steel parts.
[I used to own and operate a 40 spindle machine shop, but have never worked with
sheet. My shop was all turning, boring, milling, drilling and tapping. I
still lust for my Hardinge lathes and Bridgeports, because they could do such
precision work. However, BP made it all so simple we don't need those things.]
I learned a lot with that shop, and the sheet metal apps on the cowl will be
another entirely different growth experience. Rivet!
This is so much fun.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
| Subject: | St. Louis-- not ! |
<5.1.1.5.2.20051014102809.021b6c60(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
Ok. dont worry guys, i think that there are a piet project on a little
field to the easth of St. Louis...
i will let you know
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)global.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re Prop removal from Model A crank shaft |
What is correct method of prop removal from a Model A engine?
What is the torque spec for the large nut on the prop flange?
What is a good brand of coolant additive for lubrication of water pump
Members views would be appreciated.
Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Continental Overhaul |
No where in the Continental Maintenance And Overhaul Manual can I find torque limits
for the rod bolt nuts (not even on page 47...) Does anybody know how many
inch pounds for rod bolt nuts?
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
----- Original Message -----
From: Georgia Peach
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
No where in the Continental Maintenance And Overhaul Manual can I find torque
limits for the rod bolt nuts (not even on page 47...) Does anybody know how many
inch pounds for rod bolt nuts?
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep Building |
This evening I extended the envelope...I flew with the highest
gross
weight I've ever had 'er to - 1150 lbs. A buddy o' mine, from
work, who has never
seen anything like small airplanes very much, Squeezed his big ol'
240 lbs
into the front cockpit, and we went for a 20 minute flight in
perfect flying
conditions !! I used the hard surface to take off, and did a
'Runway Hardness
Test' on the grass landing !! It's a blast to give folks like
him, their first
experience at this type of flying !!
I, for one, can really appreciate that story. I got to see Chuck's Piet
a couple of weeks ago and didn't appreciate until then just how
difficult it will be to get into the front hole. Chuck has the "per
plans" crossed bracing wires on the right side cabanes which means no
entry from that side. From the left side you still have to negotiate
two lift struts with bracing wires, two cabanes, and a very narrow slot
between the bottom of the wing (fuel tubes, etc.) and the top of the
fuselage. I CAN'T WAIT!
Green in McPherson
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Keep Building |
In a message dated 10/14/2005 9:19:39 AM Central Standard Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
Oh SURE....Chuck won't take my fat 220# flying at
Brodhead '04....but he takes his fatter friend
flying........man, that really chaps my hide......here
I had to go out and buy my own...
Ha ha ha !!
Ah, Larry, you're not gonna let me live that down, are ya ?? :)
Well, in my defense, it was pretty hot at Brodhead, we flew off the grass,
and with your weight, it would have been 40 lbs heavier than any previous flight.
Before I flew with my Fat buddy the other day, I cleaned the plane, waxed
the prop, waxed the leading edge, did 3 high speed taxi runs with him in
there on the HARD surface runway to see how it accelerated, and the Density
Altitude was about 2400', beautiful calm evening, not very hot, and the plane was
flying very well. Oh, and Brian, my fat buddy, is single, no kids, no serious
relationship...hence - he is expendable for the test purpose !! He he he !!
:) He is not an airplane guy, and I gave him a crash course in the dangers of
the flight we were considering. He was still Very enthusiastic about going.
I didn't decide on flying, until after the third high speed taxi run, and
found that she accelerated better than I thought it would. As we taxied into
position for the fourth run, I said "Hey Brian, do you believe in God ?" He said
"Yes". I said "Well now would be a good time to say a little prayer...we're
gonna fly this time !!" I put in full power, and the rest is history !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/14/2005 11:04:50 AM Central Standard Time,
javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx writes:
Ok. don=B4t worry guys, i think that there are a piet project on a little
field to the easth of St. Louis...
i will let you know
Hey Javier,
My buddy Doug Bryant sold his Model A powered Pietanpol to a guy that has
it based at Creve Cour Airport, on the East side of St. Louis. I don't
recall the guys name, but he flys it regularly, and if you stop in the FBO,=20they
will let you know. If it is a calm evening, he will likely be at the hanger, or
flying. I stopped there on my way back through, in '04. It's a really great
airport, with lots of projects, antique planes, long hard surface runway, and
a very nice grass runway, and 3 hanger museum. Creve Couer is a MUST SEE
airport stop.
Dennis E. and his lovely wife invited me to stay with them for the night,
and after supper, we spent hours, going over Dennis's Pietenpol project in
his basement. His son took me back to Creve Coure the next morning, and when I
was preparing for departure, there was a Full Scale P51 Mustang in the
pattern, doing take offs, and landings. I watched him do 4 or 5 before I taxied
into position, and announced "Experimental Pietenpol 770 Charlie Gulf, departing
runway 36 with a Smoking Take Off". The guy in the Mustang replied "P51
Mustang, holding short...I wanna watch this !!"
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Chuck, Javier et all:
well it is not St Louis, but clear on the other side of the state.
Lees Summit, MO,
located in Lone Jack, MO a suburb of Kansas City
It would be a bit of a ride to haul it back to Mexico but on the other hand could
be the seminal part to Oscar's Mexican Piet invation idea. At $5850.00 the
price seems quite reasonable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-AirCamper-Experimental-Sport-Catagory_W0QQitemZ4581327675QQcategoryZ63677QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Regards:
Michael Silvius
in a rainy cold Scarborough, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
After almost 14 inches of rain in 7 days, it was nice to go to the airport , and
visit with my baby.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | A few Piets on barnstormers.com |
Check out the Piets on
http://barnstormers.com/
just search under Pietenpol
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
<002501c5d192$1b7fadf0$9865fea9@sterling>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Where is this engine list?
>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
The "engine list" is on the Matronics main website. You'll need to
subscribe, just like you have done for the Pietnpol list.
One of the subscribers sent me an Adobe PDF file (a Continental Teledyne
Service Bulletin, dated 2-2005) showing nearly all the torque limits for
every Continental engine made. Are you rebuilding a A-series Continental? If
so, you'll find some missing information in the original Continental
Maintenance & Overhaul Manual.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
> Where is this engine list?
>
>>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
<002501c5d192$1b7fadf0$9865fea9@sterling>
<a0602041cbf7761728212@[10.0.1.8]>
<000501c5d201$21c27700$9865fea9@sterling>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Sterling,
Thanks for the information. I checked the Matronics site earlier and
did not see an engines list. I'll look again.
I may be facing an overhaul on an A65. It starts easily, runs well,
compressions are OK, but after warming up, it only shows 25 psi at
1900 rpm in cruise. Also, it loses it's prime after sitting for less
than a month. It's less than 300 SMOH, but sat for years.
Jeff
>
>The "engine list" is on the Matronics main website. You'll need to
>subscribe, just like you have done for the Pietnpol list.
>
>One of the subscribers sent me an Adobe PDF file (a Continental
>Teledyne Service Bulletin, dated 2-2005) showing nearly all the
>torque limits for every Continental engine made. Are you rebuilding
>a A-series Continental? If so, you'll find some missing information
>in the original Continental Maintenance & Overhaul Manual.
>
>Sterling Brooks
>Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:47 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
>>
>>Where is this engine list?
>>
>>>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
<002501c5d192$1b7fadf0$9865fea9@sterling>
<a0602041cbf7761728212@[10.0.1.8]><000501c5d201$21c27700$9865fea9@sterling
> <a0602041dbf779bb875de@[10.0.1.8]>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Oops! Found the engine list. I didn't realize there was an additional
list of lists.
>
>Sterling,
>
>Thanks for the information. I checked the Matronics site earlier and
>did not see an engines list. I'll look again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Jeff:
Your problem sounds similar to the problems I had with my A-80. I bought a
Pietenpol two years ago from a person (scoundrel) in Georgia. It was
advertised as having only 5 hours SMOH during a period from 1998 to 2003.
When I got home and was doing the annual, I had to disassemble the engine
because of oil pressure issues. There was so much rust in the engine, many
of the oil journals were totally clogged up the rust particles. It seems
that some of the rust that did manage to flow through the engine seemed to
have done a job on many of the internal parts. It looked like someone had
taken 80 grit sand paper and gone mad on the crankshaft bearings.
I don't have an A&P license but my father does (we overhauled my Lycoming
0-320 E2A 4 years ago) and I felt pretty good about working on this smaller
Continental... BUT, the Continental manual has some serious gaps and this
overhaul hasn't been anywhere as satisfying/enjoyable as my Lycoming. (The
Lycoming manual was really, really good compared to the Continental, but I
have to save there are some parts of the Continental manual that are better
than the Lycoming book...)
I'm probably going to make a DVD to address some of the gaps in the
Continental manual (and some of the gaps in an old Continental overhaul film
I have.) The overhaul film was made in the early 50s and it has some
outstanding features, but whoever spliced the film together did it out of
sequence and it's a pain to follow and it doesn't address some issues that
inexperienced folks like me need to have, in order to be comfortable with
the overhaul process.
Feel free to contact me later. I might have this DVD done in about 4 to 6
months... Kind of busy at the moment because I am the caregiver for my dad
who is in Hospice care at home.
My website is www. sterlingbrooks.tv. Been in the film/video business for a
long time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
> Sterling,
>
> Thanks for the information. I checked the Matronics site earlier and did
> not see an engines list. I'll look again.
>
> I may be facing an overhaul on an A65. It starts easily, runs well,
> compressions are OK, but after warming up, it only shows 25 psi at 1900
> rpm in cruise. Also, it loses it's prime after sitting for less than a
> month. It's less than 300 SMOH, but sat for years.
>
> Jeff
>
>>
>>
>>The "engine list" is on the Matronics main website. You'll need to
>>subscribe, just like you have done for the Pietnpol list.
>>
>>One of the subscribers sent me an Adobe PDF file (a Continental Teledyne
>>Service Bulletin, dated 2-2005) showing nearly all the torque limits for
>>every Continental engine made. Are you rebuilding a A-series Continental?
>>If so, you'll find some missing information in the original Continental
>>Maintenance & Overhaul Manual.
>>
>>Sterling Brooks
>>Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>>5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>>
>>>
>>>Where is this engine list?
>>>
>>>>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul / Low Oil Pressure... |
Jeff,
If the oil pressure is ok after starting the engine cold and drops after it
warms up, it is possible that bearing clearances are too great and an
overhaul may be necessary. Ideally, the oil pressure should go to, say, 30 -
35 psi after starting and stay there even at cruise with a hot engine. At
hot idle it may drop off somewhat, but not much, with a healthy engine. The
book says 10 psi hot idle minimum but, in my humble opinion, this is pretty
low. The A-65 on my Vagabond goes to 35 psi upon startup and stays there,
dropping to 30 psi at hot idle on a hot day. I had the crankshaft ground
U10. The fit of the new bearings met new parts tolerances. The rear case was
in excellent shape and new oil pump gears were installed. After over 340
hours, everything is still the same (Touch wood!).
However, you mention that the oil pump loses its prime after a period of
idleness. This is often due to a worn oil pump and removal of the rear case
will determine the condition of this item. If your luck is better than mine,
the oil pump may be the culprit and the rest of your engine will be fine.
Sometimes a bit of debris will unseat the oil pressure valve, resulting in
low oil pressure. I don't think this is your problem, but it is easy to
check, anyway.
Your cruise rpm seems low; most A-65's are cruised at about 2150 rpm. Have
you checked the accuracy of your tachometer?
Good Luck,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
<002501c5d192$1b7fadf0$9865fea9@sterling>
<a0602041cbf7761728212@[10.0.1.8]>
<000501c5d201$21c27700$9865fea9@sterling>
<a0602041dbf779bb875de@[10.0.1.8]>
<000601c5d2bb$e9cb4fa0$f83032cc@CPQ29466173462>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul / Low Oil Pressure... |
Graham,
Thanks so much for the details commentary. I have not checked any of
the gauges for accuracy. That's my next step. If accurate, will check
pump. Then finally, the overhaul.
Jeff
>
>Jeff,
>
>If the oil pressure is ok after starting the engine cold and drops
>after it warms up, it is possible that bearing clearances are too
>great and an overhaul may be necessary. Ideally, the oil pressure
>should go to, say, 30 - 35 psi after starting and stay there even at
>cruise with a hot engine. At hot idle it may drop off somewhat, but
>not much, with a healthy engine. The book says 10 psi hot idle
>minimum but, in my humble opinion, this is pretty low. The A-65 on
>my Vagabond goes to 35 psi upon startup and stays there, dropping to
>30 psi at hot idle on a hot day. I had the crankshaft ground U10.
>The fit of the new bearings met new parts tolerances. The rear case
>was in excellent shape and new oil pump gears were installed. After
>over 340 hours, everything is still the same (Touch wood!).
>
>However, you mention that the oil pump loses its prime after a
>period of idleness. This is often due to a worn oil pump and removal
>of the rear case will determine the condition of this item. If your
>luck is better than mine, the oil pump may be the culprit and the
>rest of your engine will be fine.
>
>Sometimes a bit of debris will unseat the oil pressure valve,
>resulting in low oil pressure. I don't think this is your problem,
>but it is easy to check, anyway.
>
>Your cruise rpm seems low; most A-65's are cruised at about 2150
>rpm. Have you checked the accuracy of your tachometer?
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Some misc. items:
1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well made,
and most importantly, it was flyable.
2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air Camper
GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It is
gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of finish.
The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without the
engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight?
3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is gone
now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas for
a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field just
last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but the
field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve Couer
or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed
he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last year.
You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad, because
it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting
and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve
Couer" is French for "broken heart."
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Some misc. items:
1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well made,
and most importantly, it was flyable.
2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air Camper
GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It is
gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of finish.
The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without the
engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight?
3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is gone
now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas for
a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field just
last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but the
field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve Couer
or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed
he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last year.
You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad, because
it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting
and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve
Couer" is French for "broken heart."
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
I think Dauster Field (1H0) is fine. The American Waco Club held a flyin
there in June. Air and Space magazine was there and did a nice writeup of
the field in a recent issue.
-john-
>>
>> 3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is
>> gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas
>> for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer
>> field just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still
>> there, but the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the
>> city of Creve Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a
>> park. He believed he was playing baseball at the new fields where the
>> runways were only last year. You should check it out. If this is entirely
>> factual, that's really sad, because it was close in towards the metro center,
>> and was home for many interesting and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths
>> and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Williams <benw(at)pdi.com> |
| Subject: | Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Gentlemen,
First time writing to this list.
I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue.
I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood
will be covered with West System epoxy.
http://www.westsystem.com/
Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue?
Thanks,
Ben Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 |
Creve Coeur Airport in st.louis, county is still there. It is privately owned and
will not be turned into a park although there is a Creve Coeur park nearby.
I drive by there about every other week. The hangers are all there and the grass
and paved runways also.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Willis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05
Some misc. items:
1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well
made, and most importantly, it was flyable.
2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air
Camper GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It
is gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of
finish. The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without
the engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight?
3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it
is gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas
for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field
just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but
the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve
Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed
he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last
year. You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad,
because it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting
and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly,
"Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart."
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Ben,
Glues have been discussed for a long time. T-88 epoxy has been accepted/used
for a long time, and I kind of swear by it. You never have to wonder if the
glue is going to fail. Back when I started building my last project, about
6 years ago a quart kit (pint of A, pint of B) cost about $25.00/$30.00.
And I only used 1 1/2 kits to build the whole plane.
Don't know if this is your first project. But when you're flying over the
big mountain pass with no place to set down, it's nice to know about all the
things you did the right way.
My Mentor (thru 2 projects, and personal AP for Leo Laudenschlager) once
said to me and I won't forget..."When building airplanes, there's no such
thing as ,,""That's good enough""
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Williams" <benw(at)pdi.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue?
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> First time writing to this list.
>
> I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue.
>
> I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood
> will be covered with West System epoxy.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/
>
> Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben Williams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central Standard Time, benw(at)pdi.com
writes:
Gentlemen,
First time writing to this list.
I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue.
I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood
will be covered with West System epoxy.
http://www.westsystem.com/
Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue?
Thanks,
Ben Williams
Ben,
Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I use T88 exclusively. I
would NOT trust my life to an experiment with Elmer's Ultimate Polyurethane
glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue, with a clear mind.
I say use the ribs you built as an experience to learn how to build your
actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several of them for destructive
tests, or for a wall hanging.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Shot some video with the camera mounted on the belly, looking forward between
the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air to Air video on Sunday !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Does anybody look at glue samples when they go over your airplane any more?
Once upon a time, having a glue sample available for every batch you mixed up for
wooden joints was a big deal. I'd heard this part of the inspection has fallen
out of favor, but is that really true? If not, what's your inspector going
to say when you show up with some kind of glue they're not used to seeing?
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Williams <benw(at)pdi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Chuck, Walt,
Sound advice. I'll use T88.
Thanks,
Ben
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> benw(at)pdi.com writes:
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> First time writing to this list.
>
> I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue.
>
> I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood
> will be covered with West System epoxy.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/
>
> Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben Williams
>
> Ben,
> Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I use T88 exclusively.
> I would NOT trust my life to an experiment with Elmer's Ultimate
> Polyurethane glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue, with a
> clear mind.
> I say use the ribs you built as an experience to learn how to build
> your actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several of them for
> destructive tests, or for a wall hanging.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> Shot some video with the camera mounted on the belly, looking forward
> between the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air to Air
> video on Sunday !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Not that I am suggesting that anyone use the
polyurethane glue for important structural members,
but a friend of mine and I are conducting tests using
this glue. He glued two pieces of wood together as
per label directions, attached a 50# weight to the
wood and hung the entire test sample on a fence. This
sample has been hanging for nearly one year, through
all kinds of weather and is showing no signs of
failure. The wood is showing signs of deteriation,
but the glue joint is intact. Take this for what it
is worth, but I feel that down the road this glue will
be useful in some applications of aircraft building.
I used T-88 for all my structural applications
(including ribs) but I did use the polyurethane for
some things such as trim, ect. I personally don't
think that T-88 is the ONLY glue that is safe to build
airplanes with. As I recall, the early Piets (as well
as almost all wooden antique aircraft) were built with
casien glue (derived from milk protien). I think that
logic and proper testing would be a good way to
resolve this issue. We are experimenters, are we not?
Each builder must make his own decisions and form his
own conclusions from his work. If we never allowed
experimentation away from the norm, the accepted
methods, then new methods would never be developed.
Perhaps these thoughts are the ramblings of an old
scientist, but they have served me well in the past.
Doc (H)
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central
> Standard Time, benw(at)pdi.com
> writes:
> Gentlemen,
>
> First time writing to this list.
>
> I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate
> polyurethane glue.
>
> I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After
> assembly, all wood
> will be covered with West System epoxy.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/
>
> Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use
> a different glue?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben Williams
> Ben,
> Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I
> use T88 exclusively. I
> would NOT trust my life to an experiment with
> Elmer's Ultimate Polyurethane
> glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue,
> with a clear mind.
> I say use the ribs you built as an experience to
> learn how to build your
> actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several
> of them for destructive
> tests, or for a wall hanging.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
> Shot some video with the camera mounted on the
> belly, looking forward between
> the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air
> to Air video on Sunday !!
>
__________________________________
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
All,
Any thoughts on West System epoxy, which seems to sand much better than T88.
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | plane/car crash in August at Brodhead Airport |
Plane trying to land clips car
Published Monday, August 22, 2005 11:03:29 AM Central Time
By Mike Leverton
of the Times
BRODHEAD -- No one was seriously injured when a small plane crashed into a
car Saturday morning near the Brodhead airport.
Margie Pribble, 61, of Brodhead was driving her Chevy Blazer along Airport
Road in Brodhead when an airplane coming down for a landing struck the top
of her vehicle. Robin Bolsey, 54, of Edgerton was the pilot of the
single-engine airplane.
The airplane's landing gear struck the top of the moving vehicle, breaking
out the back window of the SUV. The airplane then did a nose dive and
crashed within 15 feet of the road.
Green County Sheriff Randy Roderick said he had never before seen an
accident like Saturday's plane crash.
Pribble reported to deputies that she was uninjured. Bolsey received
non-life-threatening injuries and was transported to Mercy Hospital in
Janesville by Brodhead EMS. Neither had any passengers with them.
The Federal Aviation Administration has been contacted and will conduct an
investigation into the incident. Any charges against the pilot would be
administered by the FAA.
An airplane collided with a moving car Saturday along Airport Road in
Brodhead, resulting in no serious injuries. Margie Pribble, 61, was driving
south on Airport Road when her vehicle was struck by a single-engine plane
flown by Robin Bolsey, 54, of Edgerton. Pribble reported no injuries and
Bolsey was treated for non-life-threatening injuries at Mercy Hospital in
Janesville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/17/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
I am glad the field is still operable in Creve Couer. Glad to be wrong.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/17/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
I am glad the field is still operable in Creve Couer. Glad to be wrong.
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | plane/car crash in August at Brodhead Airport |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Glad no body was hurt seriously, I've wondered about that approach when
I've flown it myself! He must have really been trying to take advantage
of the entire length of the runway! Tis a shame to bend and airplane.
Stevee
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plane/car crash in August at Brodhead Airport
Plane trying to land clips car
Published Monday, August 22, 2005 11:03:29 AM Central Time
By Mike Leverton
of the Times
BRODHEAD -- No one was seriously injured when a small plane crashed into
a car Saturday morning near the Brodhead airport.
Margie Pribble, 61, of Brodhead was driving her Chevy Blazer along
Airport Road in Brodhead when an airplane coming down for a landing
struck the top of her vehicle. Robin Bolsey, 54, of Edgerton was the
pilot of the single-engine airplane.
The airplane's landing gear struck the top of the moving vehicle,
breaking out the back window of the SUV. The airplane then did a nose
dive and crashed within 15 feet of the road.
Green County Sheriff Randy Roderick said he had never before seen an
accident like Saturday's plane crash.
Pribble reported to deputies that she was uninjured. Bolsey received
non-life-threatening injuries and was transported to Mercy Hospital in
Janesville by Brodhead EMS. Neither had any passengers with them.
The Federal Aviation Administration has been contacted and will conduct
an investigation into the incident. Any charges against the pilot would
be administered by the FAA.
An airplane collided with a moving car Saturday along Airport Road in
Brodhead, resulting in no serious injuries. Margie Pribble, 61, was
driving south on Airport Road when her vehicle was struck by a
single-engine plane flown by Robin Bolsey, 54, of Edgerton. Pribble
reported no injuries and Bolsey was treated for non-life-threatening
injuries at Mercy Hospital in Janesville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? |
Jack,
I'm using West Systems and have no problems with it.
It was reccommended to me by one of our "Technical Counsellors" who has
overseen many projects and has just completed a Corby Starlett. In the Sport
Aircraft Association of Australia he is considered to be somewhat of a
"woodwork guru" and knows what he's talking about. I've seen all his test
pieces since he started his project 8 or so years ago and all passed with
flying colors.
Mike Green
Romsey
AUSTRALIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue?
All,
Any thoughts on West System epoxy, which seems to sand much better than
T88.
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DONALD COOLEY <adonjr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | alternative glues |
I read with interest the questions and responses about using "Elmer's Glue", the
ultimate kind, with which I am not familiar. A friend of mine, who has built
several aircraft, and parts of several more, used Titebond II for the wing ribs
on his Wagabond, which has been flying for somewhere around twenty-five years
with no problems. There are probably several glues which used properly will
give good, safe results. It seems to me that testing is the solution to questions
any builder may have about the suitability of any adhesive. Keep the
sawdust flyin"! Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
Folks:
FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine applications where admittedly it
has been exposed to harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be less
than consistent in its performance. I have found that it does break down particularly
if gluing dissimilar woods due to their different expansion rates. I have
also found that the natural oils in Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict
with proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten the surfaces to
be glued with some water previous to applying the glue as you get better penetration
and quicker drying. That said and given the cost and amount of adhesive
to be used I figure dollar for dollar go with the proven T-88.
just my 2 pennies worth.
Kind regards:
Michael Silvius
in Scarborough, Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: DONALD COOLEY
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
I read with interest the questions and responses about using "Elmer's Glue",
the ultimate kind, with which I am not familiar. A friend of mine, who has
built several aircraft, and parts of several more, used Titebond II for the wing
ribs on his Wagabond, which has been flying for somewhere around twenty-five
years with no problems. There are probably several glues which used properly
will give good, safe results. It seems to me that testing is the solution to
questions any builder may have about the suitability of any adhesive. Keep
the sawdust flyin"! Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
I built my mock fuselage with Excel One which is the same type of stuff
(like Gorrilla Glue) a little over a year ago. It spent part of last winter
outside and several of the glue joints have not held up so well, had to
reglue several. Would not recommend it for a real fuselage although I know
that it has been used successfully to build some small single seat wood
airplanes.
RH
On 10/19/05, MICHAEL SILVIUS wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine applications where
> admittedly it has been exposed to harshest of conditions. I have found that
> it can be less than consistent in its performance. I have found that it does
> break down particularly if gluing dissimilar woods due to their different
> expansion rates. I have also found that the natural oils in Doug Fir, Cherry
> and Cedar tend to conflict with proper adhesion. It does work better if you
> moisten the surfaces to be glued with some water previous to applying the
> glue as you get better penetration and quicker drying. That said and given
> the cost and amount of adhesive to be used I figure dollar for dollar go
> with the proven T-88.
> just my 2 pennies worth.
> Kind regards:
> Michael Silvius
> in Scarborough, Maine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* DONALD COOLEY
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:51 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
>
>
> I read with interest the questions and responses about using "Elmer's
> Glue", the ultimate kind, with which I am not familiar. A friend of mine,
> who has built several aircraft, and parts of several more, used Titebond II
> for the wing ribs on his Wagabond, which has been flying for somewhere
> around twenty-five years with no problems. There are probably several glues
> which used properly will give good, safe results. It seems to me that
> testing is the solution to questions any builder may have about the
> suitability of any adhesive. Keep the sawdust flyin"! Don Cooley
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Just curious, what part of Georgia is this peach from?
Barry Davis
Big Piet Builders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
>
> The "engine list" is on the Matronics main website. You'll need to
> subscribe, just like you have done for the Pietnpol list.
>
> One of the subscribers sent me an Adobe PDF file (a Continental Teledyne
> Service Bulletin, dated 2-2005) showing nearly all the torque limits for
> every Continental engine made. Are you rebuilding a A-series Continental?
> If so, you'll find some missing information in the original Continental
> Maintenance & Overhaul Manual.
>
> Sterling Brooks
> Knot-2-Shabby Airport
> 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
>
>>
>> Where is this engine list?
>>
>>>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
The polyurethane glue (Elmer's Ultimate Glue, Gorilla
Glue) must have water to activate the glue. On soft
woods like spruce and Douglas Fir you only need to wet
one side to be glued and you spread a thin film on the
other mating side. If you do use water, the glue will
not activate and will be useless. You use mild
clamping for at least 4 hours. The glue will foam out
from the joint which can be wiped with a dampened
cloth or can be cut off later with a sharp knife. The
most common failure with this glue is not following
the directions to the letter and the glue does not
activate within the joint. I learned this the hard
way. The pieces to be glued need to fit more closely
than is needed for the epoxy glues. I found good wood
penetration when the glue was applied correctly. It
takes a little practice to get a good glue joint. If
two hardwoods (ie. ash) are glued, both mating
surfaces must be wet before applying the glue. It
only takes a very thin film of the glue as the glue
expands. This expansion forces the glue into the
wood. I haven't tried this glue on all types of wood,
so I cannot comment on it's usefulness in these cases.
I think that any builder should test this glue if he
is going to use it on any structural member. In my
opinion, I still feel that the epoxy glues are the
strongest for joints that will have the greatest
stresses. This would be the fuselage and landing gear
members and perhaps the tail feather joints. Others
may have differing opinions, and that is good. By
discusing this topic, we are combining our research
experience.
Doc (H)
--- MICHAEL SILVIUS
wrote:
> Folks:
> FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine
> applications where admittedly it has been exposed to
> harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be
> less than consistent in its performance. I have
> found that it does break down particularly if gluing
> dissimilar woods due to their different expansion
> rates. I have also found that the natural oils in
> Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict with
> proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten
> the surfaces to be glued with some water previous to
> applying the glue as you get better penetration and
> quicker drying. That said and given the cost and
> amount of adhesive to be used I figure dollar for
> dollar go with the proven T-88.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
> We had aplane during the second world war that was called the Moscitoe(not sure
of spelling) and it was a wood plane all glued together.The first ones broke
up in mid air but they fixed that problem later with glue that worked.I have
never tried to find out what that glue was but I'm sure with the right guy or
gal at the key board it may be found out.I figure that has to be the best glues
since this plane used two engines and was one of the fastest planes around
for it's time.Good luck to those who try and let us know when you find out,have
fun!
> From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/10/19 Wed AM 11:37:20 EST
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
>
>
> The polyurethane glue (Elmer's Ultimate Glue, Gorilla
> Glue) must have water to activate the glue. On soft
> woods like spruce and Douglas Fir you only need to wet
> one side to be glued and you spread a thin film on the
> other mating side. If you do use water, the glue will
> not activate and will be useless. You use mild
> clamping for at least 4 hours. The glue will foam out
> from the joint which can be wiped with a dampened
> cloth or can be cut off later with a sharp knife. The
> most common failure with this glue is not following
> the directions to the letter and the glue does not
> activate within the joint. I learned this the hard
> way. The pieces to be glued need to fit more closely
> than is needed for the epoxy glues. I found good wood
> penetration when the glue was applied correctly. It
> takes a little practice to get a good glue joint. If
> two hardwoods (ie. ash) are glued, both mating
> surfaces must be wet before applying the glue. It
> only takes a very thin film of the glue as the glue
> expands. This expansion forces the glue into the
> wood. I haven't tried this glue on all types of wood,
> so I cannot comment on it's usefulness in these cases.
> I think that any builder should test this glue if he
> is going to use it on any structural member. In my
> opinion, I still feel that the epoxy glues are the
> strongest for joints that will have the greatest
> stresses. This would be the fuselage and landing gear
> members and perhaps the tail feather joints. Others
> may have differing opinions, and that is good. By
> discusing this topic, we are combining our research
> experience.
>
> Doc (H)
>
> --- MICHAEL SILVIUS
> wrote:
>
> > Folks:
> > FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine
> > applications where admittedly it has been exposed to
> > harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be
> > less than consistent in its performance. I have
> > found that it does break down particularly if gluing
> > dissimilar woods due to their different expansion
> > rates. I have also found that the natural oils in
> > Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict with
> > proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten
> > the surfaces to be glued with some water previous to
> > applying the glue as you get better penetration and
> > quicker drying. That said and given the cost and
> > amount of adhesive to be used I figure dollar for
> > dollar go with the proven T-88.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
The Mosquito used Areolite (urea-formaldehyde). Alfred Scott did a nice
article on it here:
http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Glues/Aerolite/Aerolite.html
-john-
>
>
>> We had aplane during the second world war that was called the Moscitoe(not
>> sure of spelling) and it was a wood plane all glued together.The first ones
>> broke up in mid air but they fixed that problem later with glue that worked.I
>> have never tried to find out what that glue was but I'm sure with the right
>> guy or gal at the key board it may be found out.I figure that has to be the
>> best glues since this plane used two engines and was one of the fastest
>> planes around for it's time.Good luck to those who try and let us know when
>> you find out,have fun!
>> From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
>> Date: 2005/10/19 Wed AM 11:37:20 EST
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
>>
>>
>> The polyurethane glue (Elmer's Ultimate Glue, Gorilla
>> Glue) must have water to activate the glue. On soft
>> woods like spruce and Douglas Fir you only need to wet
>> one side to be glued and you spread a thin film on the
>> other mating side. If you do use water, the glue will
>> not activate and will be useless. You use mild
>> clamping for at least 4 hours. The glue will foam out
>> from the joint which can be wiped with a dampened
>> cloth or can be cut off later with a sharp knife. The
>> most common failure with this glue is not following
>> the directions to the letter and the glue does not
>> activate within the joint. I learned this the hard
>> way. The pieces to be glued need to fit more closely
>> than is needed for the epoxy glues. I found good wood
>> penetration when the glue was applied correctly. It
>> takes a little practice to get a good glue joint. If
>> two hardwoods (ie. ash) are glued, both mating
>> surfaces must be wet before applying the glue. It
>> only takes a very thin film of the glue as the glue
>> expands. This expansion forces the glue into the
>> wood. I haven't tried this glue on all types of wood,
>> so I cannot comment on it's usefulness in these cases.
>> I think that any builder should test this glue if he
>> is going to use it on any structural member. In my
>> opinion, I still feel that the epoxy glues are the
>> strongest for joints that will have the greatest
>> stresses. This would be the fuselage and landing gear
>> members and perhaps the tail feather joints. Others
>> may have differing opinions, and that is good. By
>> discusing this topic, we are combining our research
>> experience.
>>
>> Doc (H)
>>
>> --- MICHAEL SILVIUS
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks:
>>> FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine
>>> applications where admittedly it has been exposed to
>>> harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be
>>> less than consistent in its performance. I have
>>> found that it does break down particularly if gluing
>>> dissimilar woods due to their different expansion
>>> rates. I have also found that the natural oils in
>>> Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict with
>>> proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten
>>> the surfaces to be glued with some water previous to
>>> applying the glue as you get better penetration and
>>> quicker drying. That said and given the cost and
>>> amount of adhesive to be used I figure dollar for
>>> dollar go with the proven T-88.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
Isn't that the stuff that everybody was going nuts over a while back
saying that it was dangerous to use?If I'm not mistaken it was banned
from use in homes as an insulator.
John Hofmann wrote:
>
>
> The Mosquito used Areolite (urea-formaldehyde). Alfred Scott did a nice
> article on it here:
>
> http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Glues/Aerolite/Aerolite.html
>
> -john-
>
> >
> >
> >> We had aplane during the second world war that was called the Moscitoe(not
> >> sure of spelling) and it was a wood plane all glued together.The first ones
> >> broke up in mid air but they fixed that problem later with glue that worked.I
> >> have never tried to find out what that glue was but I'm sure with the right
> >> guy or gal at the key board it may be found out.I figure that has to be the
> >> best glues since this plane used two engines and was one of the fastest
> >> planes around for it's time.Good luck to those who try and let us know when
> >> you find out,have fun!
> >> From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com>
> >> Date: 2005/10/19 Wed AM 11:37:20 EST
> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
> >>
> >>
> >> The polyurethane glue (Elmer's Ultimate Glue, Gorilla
> >> Glue) must have water to activate the glue. On soft
> >> woods like spruce and Douglas Fir you only need to wet
> >> one side to be glued and you spread a thin film on the
> >> other mating side. If you do use water, the glue will
> >> not activate and will be useless. You use mild
> >> clamping for at least 4 hours. The glue will foam out
> >> from the joint which can be wiped with a dampened
> >> cloth or can be cut off later with a sharp knife. The
> >> most common failure with this glue is not following
> >> the directions to the letter and the glue does not
> >> activate within the joint. I learned this the hard
> >> way. The pieces to be glued need to fit more closely
> >> than is needed for the epoxy glues. I found good wood
> >> penetration when the glue was applied correctly. It
> >> takes a little practice to get a good glue joint. If
> >> two hardwoods (ie. ash) are glued, both mating
> >> surfaces must be wet before applying the glue. It
> >> only takes a very thin film of the glue as the glue
> >> expands. This expansion forces the glue into the
> >> wood. I haven't tried this glue on all types of wood,
> >> so I cannot comment on it's usefulness in these cases.
> >> I think that any builder should test this glue if he
> >> is going to use it on any structural member. In my
> >> opinion, I still feel that the epoxy glues are the
> >> strongest for joints that will have the greatest
> >> stresses. This would be the fuselage and landing gear
> >> members and perhaps the tail feather joints. Others
> >> may have differing opinions, and that is good. By
> >> discusing this topic, we are combining our research
> >> experience.
> >>
> >> Doc (H)
> >>
> >> --- MICHAEL SILVIUS
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Folks:
> >>> FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine
> >>> applications where admittedly it has been exposed to
> >>> harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be
> >>> less than consistent in its performance. I have
> >>> found that it does break down particularly if gluing
> >>> dissimilar woods due to their different expansion
> >>> rates. I have also found that the natural oils in
> >>> Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict with
> >>> proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten
> >>> the surfaces to be glued with some water previous to
> >>> applying the glue as you get better penetration and
> >>> quicker drying. That said and given the cost and
> >>> amount of adhesive to be used I figure dollar for
> >>> dollar go with the proven T-88.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________
> >> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> >> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
You are right about Weise Field being closed for a decade or so. It was across
from the Chrysler plant, and just east of I-64. Its only runway ran east-west.
It was exciting on hot days, with trees, power lines and traffic very close
to the runway at its west end and a large (120' tall?) hill full of large trees
fairly close to its east side. It seemed all too short too often.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
You are right about Weise Field being closed for a decade or so. It was across
from the Chrysler plant, and just east of I-64. Its only runway ran east-west.
It was exciting on hot days, with trees, power lines and traffic very close
to the runway at its west end and a large (120' tall?) hill full of large trees
fairly close to its east side. It seemed all too short too often.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental Overhaul |
Ringgold, Georgia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
> Just curious, what part of Georgia is this peach from?
> Barry Davis
> Big Piet Builders
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>
>
>>
>>
>> The "engine list" is on the Matronics main website. You'll need to
>> subscribe, just like you have done for the Pietnpol list.
>>
>> One of the subscribers sent me an Adobe PDF file (a Continental Teledyne
>> Service Bulletin, dated 2-2005) showing nearly all the torque limits for
>> every Continental engine made. Are you rebuilding a A-series Continental?
>> If so, you'll find some missing information in the original Continental
>> Maintenance & Overhaul Manual.
>>
>> Sterling Brooks
>> Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>> 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Where is this engine list?
>>>
>>>>Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath on the Engine-List.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HOEVELMANN <hoevelmann(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Creve coure airport |
To those who are wondering about Creve coure airport, it is a very nice airport
with an awesome museum. I live in St. Louis and have been there many times.
There is a model A Piet there also. If you have any questions
about Creve Coure Don't hesitate to E-mail me for more info.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Hi all,
I have been trying to reach Vi at 507-285-1645 for a couple weeks to buy some hinges.
Is he ok? I've let messages with no response.
Thanks,
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
Here here, Mike!
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: MICHAEL SILVIUS
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
Folks:
FWIW. I have used polyurethane glues on marine applications where admittedly
it has been exposed to harshest of conditions. I have found that it can be less
than consistent in its performance. I have found that it does break down particularly
if gluing dissimilar woods due to their different expansion rates. I
have also found that the natural oils in Doug Fir, Cherry and Cedar tend to conflict
with proper adhesion. It does work better if you moisten the surfaces
to be glued with some water previous to applying the glue as you get better penetration
and quicker drying. That said and given the cost and amount of adhesive
to be used I figure dollar for dollar go with the proven T-88.
just my 2 pennies worth.
Kind regards:
Michael Silvius
in Scarborough, Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: DONALD COOLEY
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: alternative glues
I read with interest the questions and responses about using "Elmer's Glue",
the ultimate kind, with which I am not familiar. A friend of mine, who has
built several aircraft, and parts of several more, used Titebond II for the
wing ribs on his Wagabond, which has been flying for somewhere around twenty-five
years with no problems. There are probably several glues which used properly
will give good, safe results. It seems to me that testing is the solution
to questions any builder may have about the suitability of any adhesive. Keep
the sawdust flyin"! Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp> |
| Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler's Phone # |
Hi Jack,
I bought some hinges a month or 2 back. The number that I have for Vi is
507-288-3322. Call him in the evenings
Hope this helps
Mark S
Japan
From: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
> Hi all,
> I have been trying to reach Vi at 507-285-1645 for a couple weeks to buy
> some hinges. >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternative glues |
I used Aerolite for the rib assemblies on
NX18235 and loved it.
Resin brushed on the capstrips / uprights and
activator brushed on
the gussets. About 10 seconds after placing
the gusset in place the
adhesive starts to set and the gusset is held
firmly while the nails are
set.
I tried T-88 on two ribs and the gussets had
a tendency to slide out of
place while trying to nail it in place.
Many Aerolite glue tests were done and all
were satisfactory.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative
glues
> Hofmann
>
> The Mosquito used Areolite
> (urea-formaldehyde). Alfred Scott did a
> nice
> article on it here:
>
> http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Glues/Aerolite/Aerolite.html
>
> -john-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FlyCorvair update |
There is an update on William Wynne's hangar page, at
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . Included are some great details of
Dave "The Bear" Vargesko's Wagabond project as well as a tribute to Steve
"Fixer" Jones. Also details of the upcoming "Corvair College" in November.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
I've read with interest the glue posts -- I'm using the West System epoxy.
I've built several test joints and simply cannot break this stuff. I took a
hammer to one test joint and only succeeded in breaking out the ply gusset
material around the joint, but the joint still held.
I also gave a test joint to one of my boys who was into weight lifting at
that time. Just one day after making that joint, this kid who can squat 450 lbs
and dead lift 500-plus, could not break that joint. I imagine a human cannot
exert enough pressure to break that stuff anyway no matter how strong, but it
sure was dramatic watching him try to pull that test joint apart... The other
advantage with the West System, in addition to being easy to mix using the
pumps, is that our local marine supply store (10 minutes from my house) carries
West System epoxy. I mix it using plastic coffee container lids -- after the left
over epoxy hardens it simply cracks out of the lid and you can reuse the lid.
When a lid gets too scruffy after a while, just throw it away and grab a
fresh one.
Took the Piet fuselage structure out of the basement the other day, mainly to
take better pictures as it is hard to get good pics in the cramped workshop.
Also proved that I CAN get the fuselage out of the basement -- quite easy
actually, even with stairs and two doors to go through plus navigate around some
joist supports...I'll post some pics if someone can tell me how to do that...
That's about if for this Saturday morning on the Upper Miss. Looks like
another nice fall day but some rain moving in later...hate to say it, but there's
a
mention of snow showers in the forecast for tonight and tomorrow
morning...won't be long and we'll all be yearning for those hot, dry summer days
at
Brodhead...
Also, I got a note from Ken Perkins a few days ago -- he is home and on the
mend following heart surgery. Good news!
Regards to all,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | seeking Robert Busch |
sorry to post this to the list, but I've misplaced Robert Busch's email
address (Middleport, NY). Robert- please email me off the list at
taildrags(at)hotmail.com?! And are you the same Mr. Busch who so graciously
supplied Chuck Gantzer with all that baby oil (and Guinness)?
Thanks!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)global.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re torque of Model A prop bolt |
Some weeks ago I appealed for info re the correct method for removing & re fitting
a prop on a model A Ford.
I particularly wanted the torque spec of the main nut on the prop flange.
the other question was what is the coolant additive for lubrication of the water
pump.
There has been no response so far, we are very isolated here in West Australia,
& don't know much about Piets.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)global.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re - fitting props to Model A Fords |
Some time back I asked for information on removal and refitting to Model A engines.
I particularly wanted a torque value for the main nut on the end of the
crankshaft which holds the prop flange.
The other question was - "what is the suggested additive to the coolant which will
stop corrosion and at the same time, lubricate the water pump."
So far I have had no replies. I am helping assemble an imported Pietenpol in Western
Australia. We are very isolated here and have no local knowledge of these
problems. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards.
Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)global.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Information on fitting props to Model A Ford Engines |
Some time ago I requested information on your website relating to fitting props
to Model A Ford engines. I particularly wanted information on any torque value
for the main nut, bolting the prop flange to crankshaft.
The other question was - "is there any information on the correct additive to the
coolant which will give both corrosive protection and lubrication for the water
pump. So far I have not received any replies.
I am helping assemble a Pietenpol in Western Australia which is a very isolated
place. We have no local knowledge of Piets out here.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards.
Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | coolant for Model A |
Graham asks-
>what is the additive to the coolant which will give some lubrication to the
>water pump?
Here's some info from the archives. If you can't find these exact same
products in Australia, at least it gives you some ideas of what to look for:
=======================
(Idea No. 1 and 2, from Chris Bobka:)
Thanks guys for the help. I found it at Mills Fleet Farm. Solder Seal brand
antirust and lubricant. I did not even think about the machine tool bit
coolant. I have some downstairs. I just didn't make the connection.
(Idea No. 3 and 4, from Alan Swanson:)
I was just down at the Checkers store here in Minnetonka MN. Prestone has
an Anti-Rust that also has a water pump lubricant in it for renewing
antifreeze. Justice Brothers makes a water pump lubricant also with
anti-rust that can be bought at NAPA auto stores. The link to the Justice
site is http://www.justicebrothers.com/radiatoradditives.htm. I would think
that the anti rust component would be especially important in a cast iron
block that was using pure water.
=============================
Still working on info you need on the prop hub hold-down nut. I have the
plans and manual, but there isn't any fastener torque info there. I don't
have my Flying & Glider Manual here at work, but doubt that torque info
would be in there anyway. Gotta look elsewhere... best source would be one
of the guys who flies a Ford "A", but I'll see what I can find.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/22/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Fred B.,
Your glue choice sounds good to me. Marine apps see more water than aviation,
and often plenty of stress (pounding, etc.), too. I like the fact that West Marine
is close to me, as well. What are the numbers on your cans of West Marine
Epoxy and Hardener? I see several choices on their site. Are you using a
fast dry or slow dry hardener, and what setup time did you experience? Are you
using any microfiber fillers? Thanks,
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/22/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Fred B.,
Your glue choice sounds good to me. Marine apps see more water than aviation,
and often plenty of stress (pounding, etc.), too. I like the fact that West Marine
is close to me, as well. What are the numbers on your cans of West Marine
Epoxy and Hardener? I see several choices on their site. Are you using a
fast dry or slow dry hardener, and what setup time did you experience? Are you
using any microfiber fillers? Thanks,
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | torque of Model A prop bolt |
Graham wrote-
>I particularly wanted the torque spec of the main nut on the prop flange.
Well, I'll have to admit defeat on this one. I checked the Flying & Glider
Manuals, Pietenpol's narratives on converting the Model A, and the Pietenpol
manual and plans. No info on this particular bit of information. As a
matter of fact, I came away even more puzzled than before because I've never
actually seen a Model A prop flange or hardware so I can't visualize how the
piece of axle that is used as a centering shaft for the prop is actually
attached to the flywheel flange or crankshaft.
It appears to me, however, that the large center nut that holds the prop
onto the flange, would carry no more torque than the prop bolts if the prop
is wood. Most prop bolts are torqued to something less than 20 ft.-lbs, and
I wouldn't think that the large nut would be any different. For example, my
Tennessee Props wood prop, with AN6 bolts, calls for 200 in.-lb. (16.7
ft.-lb.)
I'll have to defer to the Model A guys out there. Anybody?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQow8MuTU+T/IBy+gkSqkrOwXzctAIUNXhpnIH6UwkczBAufy2La1j68Vo=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Glue, Model A prop bolts |
Glue-- I am using Aeropoxy because a local wood guy sells it. It works
fine and is probably identical to T-88. A couple of years ago I talked
to these guys at their booth at Oshkosh and that told me they offer a
epoxy glue which is just for wood. It contains gap fillers and is
suppose to be stronger if you have gaps, than regular epoxy or if you
add micro fillers to regular glue. I am continuing to use the regular
stuff since that is what I started with. Also, none ofthe usual
suppliers sells it. They just sell the regular stuff. Just making sure I
have no gaps.. Model A prop bolts-- An easy way out of the Model A prop
center bolt/axel stub hub thing is to buy the adapter from Dick Weeden
(at Brodhead) that takes the four bolt flywheel flange to the six bolt
Continental prop hub bolt pattern. Ken Perkins also sells them, Ps Does
any one know how Ken is doing since his hospitalisation? Leon Stefan.
Kansas No more building for the winter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
I am not the best skilled at searching the archives,
but I remember reading something about the recommended
oil to use in my Model A Pietenpol. It is not using
oil, but someday I will have to either change the oil
or add some. I could not find the posts in which this
was discussed. (I am sure there was a consensus on
THIS subject.......)
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | torque of Model A prop bolt |
Howdy again, low 'n' slow fliers; I got an excellent email from Delton Perry
regarding the prop bolt issue. Here's the info he sent me, including his
qualifications. I've rearranged and edited it a bit:
======================
I am a EAA technical counselor and Power Plant rated. I am retired and
building an RV6A. I am somewhat familar with the Pietenpol and A Ford
engine.
I will try to describe the arrangement of the prop hub make up according to
the drawing that I have. The plans that I have were drawn by Orrin Hoopman
for
Bernie Pietenpol. The flanged shaft that you refer to is an input shaft from
a
Model T transmission. There is also a five inch plate made from 12 gauge
steel
that goes next to the propeller. This plate is larger than the flange so as
to
support the back of the prop.There are four 7/16" studs for attaching the
prop.
I will describe the stack of pieces starting at the crankshaft flange. The
"T"
transmission shaft goes first, the 12 gauge plate next. The four 7/16" studs
go
thru the plate, T shaft flange and screwed into the crankshaft flange. The
studs
have jam nuts that tighten this stack to the crank flange. The prop goes on
next, the crush plate next, then retaining nuts. The drawing is a little
confusing. When you look at the drawing, it appears to have a nut on the
large
shaft. A closer look at the drawing actually shows the 7/16" nuts. The
alignment
of the nuts on the drawing makes it apperar that the large shaft has a nut.
I
have seen several Pietenpols with this basic arrangement. I not seen a large
nut
on the shaft. This may or may not agree with your drawing.
Actually a nut on the end of the of the "T" shaft would serve no purpose,
according to the drawing I have. If the 7/16" studs happened to break, the
"T"
shaft, prop and all would separate together from the crankshaft flange.
As general rule, the torque on wood props will run from around 12 ft/lbs to
16 ft/lbs. Much more than this will begin crushing the wood fibers. I don't
know
that I have seen a published torque value on the four 7/16" prop nuts.
Assuming
that the studs have a National Fine thread, I would suggest no more than 16
ft/lbs.
As a side note, I have seen some that have made a shaft/flange assembly
with a five bolt pattern for cub prop. I assume that these were machine shop
made as the Continental prop hub would not be easy to modify to fit the
Model A
crankshaft flange.
The corvair engined Pietenpol does have the center shaft with a castle nut
that is cotter pinned. The crank flange on the corvair is pressed on to the
crankshaft. The procedure is to cut an internal 1" thread into the end of
crankshaft. You then make a shaft to screw into the end of the crankshaft.
This
shaft serves as safety shaft to prevent the crankshaft flange from
separating
from the crankshaft. There is another way to accomplish this, but the safety
shaft arrangement is what you usually see on the corvair engined planes.
==============================
Thanks, Delton. I'm learning something new here practically every day.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair College #9 |
William Wynne has posted details on the upcoming "Corvair College" No. 9, on
his website at http://www.flycorvair.com/cc9.html . The Corvair College is
free, and is intended to give hands-on, in-the-shop experience to anyone
thinking of building their own aero conversion of the Corvair, or in the
process of doing so and wanting to learn how to do it. Tips, tricks, tools,
and techniques.
Included on the webpage are details on area motels. Dates are Nov. 11-13
(Veterans' Day weekend). See the webpage for more info...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | West Palm airport |
Some pictures a friend of mine sent me from West Palm Beach. He flew his
Arrow down there and could get out before the hurricane. They still don't
have power down there.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
aeronca(at)westmont.edu
| Subject: | B-17 flight (video) |
Last Saturday I finally got my first flight in "Chuckie", the B-17 at the
Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth. For the last two years when I've had time
on weekends, I volunteer at the museum, mostly working on the B-17. We flew out
to Granbury and back, and buzzed ( two passes, 1,000'AGL) Pecan Plantation
(local residential airstrip) on the way over. I don't have time to do a full
write up now (I wouldn't do it justice anyway), but I did put together a video,
hopefully that is good enough for now. This will be a VERY hard flight to top
in the future.
Sorry for the quality of the video, keep in mind this was my first time using
the camera (I bought it the day before). It was also my first try at editing
video, and I was trying to do other "crew duties" while taking the video, so a
lot of it didn't turn out great.
(56 megs)
http://www.wotelectronics.com/B17.wmv
http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org
Steve Ruse
N6383J - O44
Norman, Oklahoma
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: B-17 flight (video) |
> Don't even think of apologising for the quality of that video;that was excellent,I
enjoyed every minute of it.Probably be the closest i'll ever get to doing
something like that;thanks a million.
> From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> Date: 2005/10/28 Fri AM 11:49:14 EST
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" ,
> aeronca(at)westmont.edu
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: B-17 flight (video)
>
>
> Last Saturday I finally got my first flight in "Chuckie", the B-17 at the
> Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth. For the last two years when I've had time
> on weekends, I volunteer at the museum, mostly working on the B-17. We flew out
> to Granbury and back, and buzzed ( two passes, 1,000'AGL) Pecan Plantation
> (local residential airstrip) on the way over. I don't have time to do a full
> write up now (I wouldn't do it justice anyway), but I did put together a video,
> hopefully that is good enough for now. This will be a VERY hard flight to top
> in the future.
>
> Sorry for the quality of the video, keep in mind this was my first time using
> the camera (I bought it the day before). It was also my first try at editing
> video, and I was trying to do other "crew duties" while taking the video, so
a
> lot of it didn't turn out great.
>
> (56 megs)
> http://www.wotelectronics.com/B17.wmv
>
> http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - O44
> Norman, Oklahoma
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | All's well with Ted Brousseau.... |
He'll let us know more later but I wanted to pass his note on:
"All is well. A few trees down. A little leak in the ceiling. We now have electricity
and
water."
VERY good news....
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRichmo9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: All's well with Ted Brousseau.... |
jim give me a call im home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Hello fellow Pietenpol listers,
I am just getting back on line after Wilma visited us.We barely got
scratched. Lost some trees, electricity, water and got a little water
damage on a part of the ceiling. Otherwise, just plain scary at about 5 AM.
We got as close to the eye as you can get without being in it. I would have
rather been hit by the eye. At least we would have gotten a break. The
backside of the hurricane, when combined with the strong cold front, did the
most damage. Several aircraft were totaled. I have attached a picture of
my friend's Cessna 172. The whole hangar ended upside down along with the
172 inside it!!! Now for the interesting part - for Pietenpol people at
least. After they took the 172 down my friend asked if they would go back
up and see if any of his Pietenpol parts (for one he is restoring) were
still in the hangar. They went up and came down with both struts and all
the tail feathers. Not a scratch on anything. They were just laying on
the ceiling. The wings were in my hangar and the fuselage was home in his
garage. He still has the whole thing!!!
All of my planes (and those in my custody) survived without a scratch. No
Pietenpols in SW Florida got injured. I was worried about the predicted
storm surge and when I went to bed the night before I wondered if my years
of work on my Piet were going to get water soaked in the garage down below.
Fortunately they were off by about 8 feet. We got 4" of surge according to
my boat floating at the dock in my back yard. Whew.
We have just gotten electricity and enough water pressure to take a hot
shower. Traffic lights are out around town. No electricity at the airport,
so no hangar doors can be opened. Telephone service is spotty
Otherwise, LIFE IS GOOD. Compared to those on the east coast we are just
being inconvenienced. My daughter came over this afternoon to take a hot
shower, buy gas and get chlorine for their pool. None of which are
available
in Ft. Lauderdale.
Sorry this ran so long and had little Pietenpol content. It just feels so
good to be able to reach out to friends after this ordeal. Hope to see you
all at Brodhead next year.
Ted Brousseau
Naples Florida
PS A friend invited my to fly to OSH next year in his Citation. I think I
will turn him down. How can I trade 25 hours in a Pietenpol for 3 hours in
a jet? Hands down no comparison.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | rudder weight DF |
All,
A few weeks ago I posted a message wondering if there is a difference in weights
of the same size stick of DF. The consesnsus was if the moisture content was
the same then each stick should be about the same. Today I weighed my rudder
which is about 97% complete (no covering or metal fittings) and it came out
to be 3lbs. Is does anyone think this is to heavy or just about right for DF.
I would not even have questioned it but my DAD said he thought it was heavy.
He was comparing it to a cub rudder though. I dont think you can compare tubing
to wood. I am really getting into the project and think I could finish the
whole tail section by the end of Nov. If the weight is way out of line I need
to make some changes now before I go onto the next part. What ever the case
I don't think I will scrap my parts I have finished (rudder, VS). I will just
make up for it somewhere else.
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: rudder weight DF |
Nick,
About the weight if your rudder; doesn't seem bad at all.
Regarding wood in general and DF in particular, its all about density which
depends on several things.
The densities of wood from the same tree can vary considerably depending on
the rate of growth. Its the proportion of the sections of the growth 'rings'
like the darker, harder streaks vs the lighter, softer portions.
My piet is almost completely DF and I found a big difference between the
'sticks' I selected. In fact I made it a point to 'heft' each of the pieces
that I found acceptable and bought the lightest ones. In building my laminated
spars, I used 14' 2x4s which I ripped into 8 strips. I could weigh each strip
and I color coded the ends base on weight. Made about 6 different classes.
Nominally spruce density is about 25 or 26 lbs/cu. ft. My strips weighed out
between 26 and 30 lbs/cu ft.
A good source of information on wood is the book: 'Understanding Wood' by R.
Bruce Hoadley
This proved to me that you have to be as selective as is reasonable in
getting your materials. Also noted that the heavier the stick the more brittle
it
is.
Anyway thats what I learned.
Good luck with your building.
Lou Larsen
PS Assembled the piet for the Chapter 'show and tell'ast week and also so I
can get it weighed and do the W & B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B-17 flight (video) |
Surly you jest! That was "way cool" as some generation a while back
used to say.
Sorry for the quality of the video, keep in mind this was my first
time using
the camera (I bought it the day before). It was also my first try
at editing
video, and I was trying to do other "crew duties" while taking the
video, so a
lot of it didn't turn out great.
Building and dreaming in McPherson.
Tom
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder weight DF |
Nick,
It sounds as if your rudder weight is "in the ball park" for an uncovered unit,
less metal fittings.
During the early 1970's, I helped a friend build a Pietenpol. The wood he used
was Sitka Spruce and all plywood was Finnish Birch, aircraft quality. I don't
have the final empty weight handy, but still have the weights of various components
which we recorded. Hopefully, they will be of use to you and others for
reference:
COMPONENT UNCOVERED COVERED
***************** **************** *************
WING PANEL 50.5 lb 63.5 lb
CENTER SECTION N/A 22.5 lb
RUDDER 3.5 lb 4.5 lb
VERTICAL FIN 1.5 lb 2.25 lb
TAILPLANE 6.0 lb 8.75 lb
ELEVATOR 3.0 lb 4.5 lb
AILERON 4.0 lb 5.5 lb
NOTE: These figures are to the nearest quarter pound.
The spruce spars were 1" x 4 3/4" along their entire length. Possibly, several
pounds per wing panel could have been saved by routing the spars as shown in the
plans.
The front lift struts were made from Aeronca front strut material which is heavier
than necessary (cost was a factor in choosing them). The rear lift struts
were made from Aeronca rear strut material, as were the center section (cabane)
struts. The combined weight of lift struts and jury struts, strut bracing wires
(1/8" a/c cable), tail bracing wires (3/32" a/c cable), hardware and fittings
was about 30 pounds.
The covering material was 3.5 OZ. per sq. yard polyester fabric, which probably
is heavier than required for the light wing loading and slow speed of a Pietenpol.
Nevertheless, the airplane is still flying with its original fabric cover
30 years later. Butyrate dope was used. The total weight of the doped fabric
cover for the above components is 36.5 pounds. The weight of the fuselage cover
was not recorded, but is likely less than 10 lb, so the total weight of the
doped fabric cover for the entire airplane should be about 45 pounds.
By using a lighter grade of fabric and a minimum amount of finishing material (eg.
dope, etc), some weight may be saved. But when the entire cover weighs only
45 pounds, it won't be too significant in the big picture.
With the exception of the larger wood pieces (spars and longerons, for example),
substituting Douglas Fir for Sitka Spruce won't add much weight to a component.
You can rather easily compensate for this added weight by using a minimum
of instruments, lightweight seat cushions, a lightweight fire extinguisher, lightweight
(eg. Slick) magnetos, a wooden propeller, and avoiding oversize tires.
A single piece wing could save as much as 15 pounds (Ref. B.H. Pietenpol himself).
When I recovered my Pietenpol some 20 years ago, I weighed the various components
and their weights were comparable to the weights provided herein--with the
exception of the wing panels. My wings have Douglas Fir spars built up to the
I-Beam section in the plans by laminating, and this apparently added a few pounds
to each panel. Yet the empty weight of my airplane is significantly less than
the empty weight of the aircraft described above (which was built from the
same jigs!).
I hope this helps.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder weight DF |
Nick
I just weighed mine at 2lb. 11oz. That is fully finished, 2 coats of varnish,
West System epoxy on exposed edges and hinges installed. I used Sitka. Dont
worry about small amounts like this. Some of the difference can be in our scales.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder weight DF
All,
A few weeks ago I posted a message wondering if there is a difference in weights
of the same size stick of DF. The consesnsus was if the moisture content
was the same then each stick should be about the same. Today I weighed my rudder
which is about 97% complete (no covering or metal fittings) and it came out
to be 3lbs. Is does anyone think this is to heavy or just about right for DF.
I would not even have questioned it but my DAD said he thought it was heavy.
He was comparing it to a cub rudder though. I dont think you can compare
tubing to wood. I am really getting into the project and think I could finish
the whole tail section by the end of Nov. If the weight is way out of line I
need to make some changes now before I go onto the next part. What ever the
case I don't think I will scrap my parts I have finished (rudder, VS). I will
just make up for it somewhere else.
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder weight DF |
test
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder weight DF
All,
A few weeks ago I posted a message wondering if there is a difference in weights
of the same size stick of DF. The consesnsus was if the moisture content
was the same then each stick should be about the same. Today I weighed my rudder
which is about 97% complete (no covering or metal fittings) and it came out
to be 3lbs. Is does anyone think this is to heavy or just about right for DF.
I would not even have questioned it but my DAD said he thought it was heavy.
He was comparing it to a cub rudder though. I dont think you can compare
tubing to wood. I am really getting into the project and think I could finish
the whole tail section by the end of Nov. If the weight is way out of line I
need to make some changes now before I go onto the next part. What ever the
case I don't think I will scrap my parts I have finished (rudder, VS). I will
just make up for it somewhere else.
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B-17 flight (video) |
When the B-17 link was posted I got to see half of one vid, and my computer crashed.
Finally up again this AM thanks to my computer savy son, and a complete
reinstall of Windows. Anyway.......................
could someone repost the links please? Thanks.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Stinemetze
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: B-17 flight (video)
Surly you jest! That was "way cool" as some generation a while back used to say.
Sorry for the quality of the video, keep in mind this was my first time
using the camera (I bought it the day before). It was also my first try
at editing video, and I was trying to do other "crew duties" while taking
the video, so a lot of it didn't turn out great.
Building and dreaming in McPherson.
Tom
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David" <webm1279(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wing leading-edge tool |
Hello!
I'm posting to ask if anyone's built/used a tool to sand/shave a wing
leading-edge from the rough. Our Dave's been rasping it from outlines
drawn on the ends, using a template made from gusset material to
confirm his work.
We've got several devoted people putting a lot of creativity into our
Piet, and I thought this'd be an opportunity to contribute to the
project, and also contribute a little to this list, which has been
good to belong to. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Dave Smith
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alexms1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wing leading-edge tool |
David,
Did you see the way Michael Cuy did his? He bought stairwell banisters and made
two passes on his table saw and they were ready to glue on. His tape shows
how he did this.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Hello!
I'm posting to ask if anyone's built/used a tool to sand/shave a wing
leading-edge from the rough. Our Dave's been rasping it from outlines
drawn on the ends, using a template made from gusset material to
confirm his work.
We've got several devoted people putting a lot of creativity into our
Piet, and I thought this'd be an opportunity to contribute to the
project, and also contribute a little to this list, which has been
good to belong to. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Dave Smith
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
David,
Did you see the way Michael Cuy did his? He bought stairwell banisters and made
two passes on his table saw and they were ready to glue on. His tape shows how
he did this.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
Hello!
I'm posting to ask if anyone's built/used a tool to sand/shave a wing
leading-edge from the rough. Our Dave's been rasping it from outlines
drawn on the ends, using a template made from gusset material to
confirm his work.
We've got several devoted people putting a lot of creativity into our
Piet, and I thought this'd be an opportunity to contribute to the
project, and also contribute a little to this list, which has been
good to belong to. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Dave Smith
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing leading-edge tool |
I roughed mine out with a table saw and finished off with the belt sander using
a template to keep the desired shape.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing leading-edge tool |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I ripped two cuts with my table saw to get the approximate angle of the
leading edge, resulting in a trapezoidal shape. Then I attached it to
the wing. Finally I used a small block plane to shape it to the nice
cureved shape required, making beautiful curled spirals of spruce as I
walked down the length of the wing. One of the most enjoyable parts of
the building process!
Jack Phillips,
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing leading-edge tool
Hello!
I'm posting to ask if anyone's built/used a tool to sand/shave a wing
leading-edge from the rough. Our Dave's been rasping it from outlines
drawn on the ends, using a template made from gusset material to
confirm his work.
We've got several devoted people putting a lot of creativity into our
Piet, and I thought this'd be an opportunity to contribute to the
project, and also contribute a little to this list, which has been
good to belong to. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Dave Smith
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: in Rust We Trust |
I'm not a liberal or conservative, want to be just a plain American. Also
,not a shoe salesman so take the little article anyway you like and fit your own
shoes.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | leading edge idea/sketch attached |
This seemed nuts at the time, but worked well !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up with Google/maps,
where by each member of a group puts in their stats and they become a
stick pin on the map. New builders are always asking "Anyone near here, anyone
near there?"
Here's the link.
http://www.frappr.com/
we should do it.
Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Williams <benw(at)pdi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
It's ready to go!
The group name is "pietenpol".
Ben
w b evans wrote:
> Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up
> with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their stats
> and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are always asking
> "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
> Here's the link.
> http://www.frappr.com/
> we should do it.
> Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Cool! I'm on it.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Williams
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
It's ready to go!
The group name is "pietenpol".
Ben
w b evans wrote:
> Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up
> with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their stats
> and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are always
asking
> "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
> Here's the link.
> http://www.frappr.com/
> we should do it.
> Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
27, 2005) at 10/31/2005 10:03:30 PM
That's fun, I am on, don't forget pictures
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
I'm getting there
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Ponder, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Cool! I'm on it.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Williams
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:45 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
It's ready to go!
The group name is "pietenpol".
Ben
w b evans wrote:
> Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up
> with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their stats
> and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are always
asking
> "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
> Here's the link.
> http://www.frappr.com/
> we should do it.
> Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Me too. This is neat!
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Phillips, Jack
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Cool! I'm on it.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Williams
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
It's ready to go!
The group name is "pietenpol".
Ben
w b evans wrote:
> Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up
> with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their stats
> and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are always
asking
> "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
> Here's the link.
> http://www.frappr.com/
> we should do it.
> Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Neat stuff! Google continues to amaze. (Well, amaze me, anyway!)
>Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked
>up with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their
>stats and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are
>always asking "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
>Here's the link.
><http://www.frappr.com/>http://www.frappr.com/
>we should do it.
>Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
>walt evans
>NX140DL
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Ben,
Great! Did you set it up?
If I don't answer right away,,,cause i'm logging on.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Williams" <benw(at)pdi.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
>
> It's ready to go!
>
> The group name is "pietenpol".
>
> Ben
>
> w b evans wrote:
>> Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up
>> with Google/maps, where by each member of a group puts in their stats
>> and they become a stick pin on the map. New builders are always asking
>> "Anyone near here, anyone near there?"
>> Here's the link.
>> http://www.frappr.com/
>> we should do it.
>> Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
>> walt evans
>> NX140DL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jetpilot" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site (TACO) |
Stuck a TACO on the map at http://www.frappr.com/taco, and I didn't call it macaroni.
I welcome all honorary TACOs to stab a pin on their respective locations.
----- Original Message -----
From: w b evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up with Google/maps,
where by each member of a group puts in their stats and they become
a stick pin on the map. New builders are always asking "Anyone near here, anyone
near there?"
Here's the link.
http://www.frappr.com/
we should do it.
Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Williams <benw(at)pdi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Walt,
I did set it up. That was a good idea of yours.
By the way, I got the T-88 and it is amazingly strong stuff.
I carefully followed the application instructions and then did break
tests with both polyurethane glue (Elmer's Ultimate) and T-88.
Wood broke 20% to 50% with the polyurethane.
With T-88 it was always 100%.
These are just my own observations using unscientific tests.
Gotta go and build more ribs.
Ben
w b evans wrote:
>
> Ben,
> Great! Did you set it up?
> If I don't answer right away,,,cause i'm logging on.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Here is a link that takes right to the Pietenpol site.
http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol
----- Original Message -----
From: w b evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Just got a link from another group I'm on. They have a site hooked up with Google/maps,
where by each member of a group puts in their stats and they become
a stick pin on the map. New builders are always asking "Anyone near here, anyone
near there?"
Here's the link.
http://www.frappr.com/
we should do it.
Some of you computer savy guys check it out.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
<"001d01c5de8e$719687a0$9dc6 8048"@ATO>
Hi Piets
Because it's hard to get epoxy varnish here (Mexico) i used Helmmes ...
I have been testing the varnish with mek, the helmmes (green can) whit 10 days
for cure it's not enough..it peels of the wood.. maybe whit more days?
i checked polyurethane varnish (two components), and the mek disolve it ..
i think that i need to get epoxy varnish ev400 and recover all wood that will be
in contact whit fabric glue..
Javier Cruz
Signed on the map.. cool site
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
<001d01c5de8e$719687a0$9dc68048@ATO>
I'm in too. The map puts me in deepest darkest
downtown but I'm actually down and to the right.
On the highest magnification it's w 10th and
Carnarvon. I can see my white tent with a Piet
under it! :-) :-)
I see Jim got plunked in the middle of a park.
Clif
Here is a link that takes right to the Pietenpol site.
http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hola Javier,
Can you receive shipments from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty in Mexico?
You can buy PolyFiber Epoxy Varnish from them.
I found the same thing you did. I first used Helmsman Polyurethane
varnish, then tested it with PolyFiber Reducer and it lifted right off
the wood. Their epoxy varnish is bulletproof!
Maybe next time you fly your jet into the US you can buy some epoxy
varnish and take it home in your flight bag.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Javier
Cruz
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Hi Piets
Because it's hard to get epoxy varnish here (Mexico) i used Helmmes ...
I have been testing the varnish with mek, the helmmes (green can) whit
10 days for cure it's not enough..it peels of the wood.. maybe whit more
days?
i checked polyurethane varnish (two components), and the mek disolve it
..
i think that i need to get epoxy varnish ev400 and recover all wood that
will be in contact whit fabric glue..
Javier Cruz
Signed on the map.. cool site
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jetpilot" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Javier:
I'll smuggle it across. Do you want to meet me near El Paso or Presidio?
Plata
TACO
----- Original Message -----
From: Javier Cruz
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Hi Piets
Because it's hard to get epoxy varnish here (Mexico) i used Helmmes ...
I have been testing the varnish with mek, the helmmes (green can) whit 10 days
for cure it's not enough..it peels of the wood.. maybe whit more days?
i checked polyurethane varnish (two components), and the mek disolve it ..
i think that i need to get epoxy varnish ev400 and recover all wood that will
be in contact whit fabric glue..
Javier Cruz
Signed on the map.. cool site
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
It puts me in the bay. It's out by a couple of kilometres.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of greg menoche
Sent: November 1, 2005 5:07 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
what a great tool
Greg Menoche
-----Original Message-----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: Nov 1, 2005 1:40 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
I'm in too. The map puts me in deepest darkest
downtown but I'm actually down and to the right.
On the highest magnification it's w 10th and
Carnarvon. I can see my white tent with a Piet
under it! :-) :-)
I see Jim got plunked in the middle of a park.
Clif
Here is a link that takes right to the Pietenpol site.
http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jetpilot" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Texas Air Camper Organization frappers |
http://www.frappr.com/taco
TACO frappers click above. If you don't yet already have your ID card, (suitable
for passing through TSA security at most airports) send a picture of you to
me and give me with your snail-mail address and I'll get it to you in a few weeks.
Ask Mike Cuy how authentic looking his TACO ID card is and be the first one on
your block (if not your state) to have one.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
NOTAMS... If your TACO badge indeed gets you through TSA security, please e-mail
me and tell me how you did it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
| Subject: | Texas Air Camper Organization frappers |
I'm not sure if the picture of me would look too good on a security card.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jetpilot
Sent: November 1, 2005 5:58 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Texas Air Camper Organization frappers
http://www.frappr.com/taco
TACO frappers click above. If you don't yet already have your ID card,
(suitable for passing through TSA security at most airports) send a picture
of you to me and give me with your snail-mail address and I'll get it to you
in a few weeks.
Ask Mike Cuy how authentic looking his TACO ID card is and be the first
one on your block (if not your state) to have one.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
NOTAMS... If your TACO badge indeed gets you through TSA security, please
e-mail me and tell me how you did it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> |
Thanks Plata and Jack
I have to fly to Dulles the next 15 to 20 nov,so i can order the varnish and ask
AAS to send it to the hotel, on the other hand, if the next week have the
paperwork finished for a cessna 150 that i have on Cahokia, ill, i will go there
for traslate it to Mexico, so i have two chances .
just waiting that my chief confirm the dates..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jetpilot" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
Javier:
OK, sounds good.
Don't forget to put you mark on the TACO map.
PLATA
----- Original Message -----
From: Javier Cruz
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnish
Thanks Plata and Jack
I have to fly to Dulles the next 15 to 20 nov,so i can order the varnish and
ask AAS to send it to the hotel, on the other hand, if the next week have the
paperwork finished for a cessna 150 that i have on Cahokia, ill, i will go there
for traslate it to Mexico, so i have two chances .
just waiting that my chief confirm the dates..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
I can't put mine in ;it won't take my postal code which is 6 figures and
when I click on the out of country line ,nothing happens.Can this be
fixed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)global.net.au> |
"Philip Finch" , ,
"President" ,
"R & L Burnett" ,
"R. J. & A. Armstrong" ,
"Raknapp" ,
"Ralph Nell Harding" ,
"Rdonnelly"
| Subject: | Re: virus using grhewitt(at)global.net.au |
Dear all,
Have just been advised that our address has been used to send a virus. The
wording for the message is "grhewitt(at)global.net.au SUBJECT: IMPORTANT
MESSAGE." Do NOT open.
For future emails I will make sure that the subject will be logical.
Regards,
Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | update on Corvair College |
William has posted an update on the www.flycorvair.com website, Nov. 1, with
some interesting pictures and a story about beer. That should get everybody
over to check it out ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Well, I added myself to the TACO frappr site, but I sure don't understand
how there can be members from east of the Mississippi! Yankees typically
don't know an enchilada from a fajita ;o) I'm sure exceptions can be made
for somebody living in a place with a name like Corona (CA) though...
Note to Gary Gower- most of my family is in Laredo, so if you need a place
to store building materials until you can pick them up there, let me know
and maybe I can help.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Harvey,
Being from north of the border, I had difficulty as well.
Where they ask for your zipcode, you have to click "Not in the US", then
type in your City, Province (Country).
When I did this, with Richmond Hill (population about 150,000) as the
city, it came back with "City not found".
So I tried again, using Vaughan (population about 200,000) (which is
very nearby, and is shown on the big map), and got the same reply.
Then I tried again, using Toronto (population 3,000,000 plus) for the
city, and it worked.
It seems that it will only accept certain cities outside of the USA.
It's strange, because it uses google maps, which has no problem finding
Richmond Hill. In fact, when I enter my address, the location it
pinpoints is only off by about three houses.
So, you may find that you have to enter something like Ottawa for your
city in order to get accepted.
Good Luck.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey
rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
I can't put mine in ;it won't take my postal code which is 6 figures and
when I click on the out of country line ,nothing happens.Can this be
fixed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
I tried to do as you say and I can't even get all the word Ottawa in
there.Clicking on the" not in US" doesn't do anything for me.I guess
I'll just have to remain up here as incognito.
Bill Church wrote:
>
>
> Harvey,
>
> Being from north of the border, I had difficulty as well.
>
> Where they ask for your zipcode, you have to click "Not in the US", then
> type in your City, Province (Country).
> When I did this, with Richmond Hill (population about 150,000) as the
> city, it came back with "City not found".
> So I tried again, using Vaughan (population about 200,000) (which is
> very nearby, and is shown on the big map), and got the same reply.
> Then I tried again, using Toronto (population 3,000,000 plus) for the
> city, and it worked.
> It seems that it will only accept certain cities outside of the USA.
> It's strange, because it uses google maps, which has no problem finding
> Richmond Hill. In fact, when I enter my address, the location it
> pinpoints is only off by about three houses.
> So, you may find that you have to enter something like Ottawa for your
> city in order to get accepted.
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey
> rule
> Sent: November 2, 2005 7:01 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
>
>
> I can't put mine in ;it won't take my postal code which is 6 figures and
> when I click on the out of country line ,nothing happens.Can this be
> fixed?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Harvey,
Looks like you won't be able to be incognito, as I just checked the
Frappr site and see that you're on the board.
Guess it worked after all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey
rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
I tried to do as you say and I can't even get all the word Ottawa in
there.Clicking on the" not in US" doesn't do anything for me.I guess
I'll just have to remain up here as incognito.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: frapper site |
Actually Ben Williams put it in for me.Thanks.
Bill Church wrote:
>
>
> Harvey,
> Looks like you won't be able to be incognito, as I just checked the
> Frappr site and see that you're on the board.
> Guess it worked after all.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey
> rule
> Sent: November 2, 2005 11:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
>
>
> I tried to do as you say and I can't even get all the word Ottawa in
> there.Clicking on the" not in US" doesn't do anything for me.I guess
> I'll just have to remain up here as incognito.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
When I entered Midland Ontario it worked great. Midland has about 12,000
people.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
Harvey,
Being from north of the border, I had difficulty as well.
Where they ask for your zipcode, you have to click "Not in the US", then
type in your City, Province (Country).
When I did this, with Richmond Hill (population about 150,000) as the
city, it came back with "City not found".
So I tried again, using Vaughan (population about 200,000) (which is
very nearby, and is shown on the big map), and got the same reply.
Then I tried again, using Toronto (population 3,000,000 plus) for the
city, and it worked.
It seems that it will only accept certain cities outside of the USA.
It's strange, because it uses google maps, which has no problem finding
Richmond Hill. In fact, when I enter my address, the location it
pinpoints is only off by about three houses.
So, you may find that you have to enter something like Ottawa for your
city in order to get accepted.
Good Luck.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey
rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: frapper site
I can't put mine in ;it won't take my postal code which is 6 figures and
when I click on the out of country line ,nothing happens.Can this be
fixed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard deCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | For sale: 35% complete Piet |
Yup. It's sad but true. I have way too many projects
and this is one that has to go, I'm afraid. This is a
beautifully built (35%) all-wood Pietenpol Air Camper.
All of the wood parts are built except the wings and
wing center section. There are many parts and pieces,
which I will itemize below:
INVENTORY:
* 28 Wing ribs
* Fuselage - complete minus plywood sides; both
seats, turtle deck, hat box panels
* Empennage
o Horizonal Stab
o Vertical Stab
o Rudder
o Elevators
* Other wood
o 4 wing spars
o 2 center section spart
o Loads of wood for the rest of the plane
o 5+ sheets of 5-ply plywood
* Metal
o
All tubing needed to build the cub-style gear
o Vi Capler hinges, complete empennage set
o Control system
+ 2 sticks
+ Rudder bar,
+ etc (see pic below)
* Other
o Plans
+ 1931 plans
+ Extended fuselage plans
+ Corvair & Ford conversion plans
+ Cuy wheel plans
+ 3-piece wing plans
+ other misc plans
o Other small items
You can talk price with me via email, or bid at the
eBay listing, which has a $2,299.00 reserve and
But-it-now price.
Pics:
http://www.richarddecosta.com/images/piet/Piet.html
Richard
p.s. If you're curious what's taking up so much of my
time, here it is: http://www.richarddecosta.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge cutters |
Jeff,
If you give me an address in Texas I'll have $25 in the mail today
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Anyone on the list going to the Corvair College next weekend? |
William Wynne mentioned that he invited a few Pieters to the Corvair
College next weekend, but I was wondering if any of you were planning to
attend. I live just 30 minutes south of his hanger, so I'll be there.
I haven't started building my engine yet, but I've collected 3 cores
that are disassembled and I'll be taking some parts up there for him to
inspect.
Ben Charvet
Mims,Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mary Koebel <ckoebel3(at)comcast.net> |
Hi,
I'm planning on driving down from Chicago if I can.
Colin Koebel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair College No. 9 |
William has posted an update on the Corvair College on his website, at
http://www.flycorvair.com/cc9.html . The update has instructions regarding
arrivals and parking, as well as a good breakdown of the main phases of
engine construction and what you'll need for each phase.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacklemAW(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | In Rust We Trust - 10/31/05 |
Thanks Corky for posting the article by Dr Roback.
Does anyone know if she has a sister?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK(at)peoplepc.com> |
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK(at)peoplepc.com> |
Thanks Walt.
Dick Gillespie
----- Original Message -----
From: w b evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 |
Question: I'm building my Jenny-style landing gear and am wondering what size bolts
most folks use for the metal attachment fittings on the fuselage lower longerons
and for the gear struts. Are you using 3/16" (AN3) or 1/4" (AN4) bolts?
Or...? Many thanks!
Fred B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-11-09.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-11-09.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 11/09/05: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 PM - No Mail (Richard Gillespie)
2. 02:20 PM - Re: No Mail (w b evans)
3. 06:10 PM - Re: No Mail (Richard Gillespie)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Thanks Walt.
Dick Gillespie
----- Original Message -----
From: w b evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick(at)peoplepc.co m
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hi Fred,
I used AN4's (1/4"), with MS21042 locknuts. Held up well to the
groundloop last year (the gear was about the only thing that didn't
receive some damage).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tbyh(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05
Question: I'm building my Jenny-style landing gear and am wondering what
size bolts most folks use for the metal attachment fittings on the
fuselage lower longerons and for the gear struts. Are you using 3/16"
(AN3) or 1/4" (AN4) bolts? Or...? Many thanks!
Fred B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lathrop <jlathrop(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started
building my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting for
a shipment of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about the
fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working with
metal more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a Bearhawk which
has a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the steel tube will be
slower due to the need to design the fittings which which aren't spelled out
in the plans for the steel tube version, but I am willing to accept that.
When talking to owners/pilots at Brodhead this year everyone said to go with
the long fuselage, it gives you more room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs from
the 1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both fuselages
I see that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear seat to the
cross brace defining the back of the front seat is 33" on the steel tube vs.
31" on the long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29" for the steel vs.
28.75for the long wood. Overall from firewall to the back seat cross
brace on the
steel tube is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of leg
room for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot with the
steel tube version. The real difference between the two is from the rear
seat to the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8" longer than the steel
tube version. I do not have my pilots license yet, and this is where my
question comes in. Would not moving the tail feathers back nearly 10" inches
make them much more responsive than on the short version, or is this really
not a noticeable change? It seems to me that with a plane as light as the
Pietenpol, that extra leverage would be significant. Has anyone flown both
the long and short version (wood or steel) and have any input on the
differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Jim,
Good questions. I have flown both my long fuselage Piet and Mike Cuy's
short version (both in wood - have not flown a steel Piet). What I can
tell you is there is virtually no difference in feel or sensitivity of
the controls between the long and short versions. Both have more than
adequate control response. Nor does it seem to affect ground handling
much. I can also tell you that adding 10" to the tail makes the whole
plane heavier, and adds to an already tail-heavy situation. If you have
adequate legroom in the shorter fuselage, I would recommend building
that.
Of course, if you have long legs (as I do), a short light airplane is
not going to make you very happy if you cannot be comfortable sitting in
it. I can tell you from personal experience, if you EVER take a trip in
your Pietenpol, you will be sitting in it for a long, long time and
you'd better make it as comfortable as possible. If possible, try to
sit in both versions and try them on for size. If at all possible, sit
in them long enough to get a feel for what a long trip will feel like (I
found on my trip to Brodhead this year that any leg over an hour and a
half got to be pretty uncomfortable).
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lathrop
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started
building my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting
for a shipment of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about
the fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working
with metal more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a
Bearhawk which has a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the
steel tube will be slower due to the need to design the fittings which
which aren't spelled out in the plans for the steel tube version, but I
am willing to accept that. When talking to owners/pilots at Brodhead
this year everyone said to go with the long fuselage, it gives you more
room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs
from the 1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both
fuselages I see that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear
seat to the cross brace defining the back of the front seat is 33" on
the steel tube vs. 31" on the long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29"
for the steel vs. 28.75 for the long wood. Overall from firewall to the
back seat cross brace on the steel tube is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long
wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of
leg room for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot
with the steel tube version. The real difference between the two is
from the rear seat to the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8"
longer than the steel tube version. I do not have my pilots license
yet, and this is where my question comes in. Would not moving the tail
feathers back nearly 10" inches make them much more responsive than on
the short version, or is this really not a noticeable change? It seems
to me that with a plane as light as the Pietenpol, that extra leverage
would be significant. Has anyone flown both the long and short version
(wood or steel) and have any input on the differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
Hi Jack, et al....Bill Beerman is from Raleigh and was building a Piet. Do you
know him? I'm wondering how he's progressing.....Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
Jim,
Good questions. I have flown both my long fuselage Piet and Mike Cuy's short
version (both in wood - have not flown a steel Piet). What I can tell you is
there is virtually no difference in feel or sensitivity of the controls between
the long and short versions. Both have more than adequate control response.
Nor does it seem to affect ground handling much. I can also tell you that
adding 10" to the tail makes the whole plane heavier, and adds to an already tail-heavy
situation. If you have adequate legroom in the shorter fuselage, I
would recommend building that.
Of course, if you have long legs (as I do), a short light airplane is not going
to make you very happy if you cannot be comfortable sitting in it. I can tell
you from personal experience, if you EVER take a trip in your Pietenpol, you
will be sitting in it for a long, long time and you'd better make it as comfortable
as possible. If possible, try to sit in both versions and try them on
for size. If at all possible, sit in them long enough to get a feel for what
a long trip will feel like (I found on my trip to Brodhead this year that any
leg over an hour and a half got to be pretty uncomfortable).
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lathrop
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:03 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started building
my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting for a shipment
of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about the fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working with metal
more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a Bearhawk which has
a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the steel tube will be slower due
to the need to design the fittings which which aren't spelled out in the plans
for the steel tube version, but I am willing to accept that. When talking to
owners/pilots at Brodhead this year everyone said to go with the long fuselage,
it gives you more room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs from the
1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both fuselages I see
that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear seat to the cross brace
defining the back of the front seat is 33" on the steel tube vs. 31" on the
long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29" for the steel vs. 28.75 for the
long wood. Overall from firewall to the back seat cross brace on the steel tube
is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of leg room
for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot with the steel
tube version. The real difference between the two is from the rear seat to
the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8" longer than the steel tube version.
I do not have my pilots license yet, and this is where my question comes
in. Would not moving the tail feathers back nearly 10" inches make them much
more responsive than on the short version, or is this really not a noticeable
change? It seems to me that with a plane as light as the Pietenpol, that extra
leverage would be significant. Has anyone flown both the long and short version
(wood or steel) and have any input on the differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lathrop <jlathrop(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I've heard of him - as I recall he owns a Stinson. But I've never met
him.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Vought
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
Hi Jack, et al....Bill Beerman is from Raleigh and was building a Piet.
Do you know him? I'm wondering how he's progressing.....Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
Jim,
My N-1033B has a 4130 tube fuselage. Wt came in with Aeronca wings and
O-235 engine at 680 lbs. I have the wood plans but think the 4130 gives
you a lot more flexiblity when it comes to moving braces around to account
for longer legs or broad shoulders, etc. Also you can put attachement tabs
and beefed up gear support points where needed more easily than wood. 4130
is easy to gas weld if you have the right equipment and good eyesight.
Quasi-Piete N1033B is in the hanger down in Palatka FL if you want to take
a look at a Piete re-design made from 4130, and rebuilt storebought wings.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jim Lathrop jlathrop(at)gmail.com
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:03:17 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started
building my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting for
a shipment of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about the
fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working with
metal more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a Bearhawk which
has a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the steel tube will be
slower due to the need to design the fittings which which aren't spelled out
in the plans for the steel tube version, but I am willing to accept that.
When talking to owners/pilots at Brodhead this year everyone said to go with
the long fuselage, it gives you more room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs from
the 1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both fuselages
I see that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear seat to the
cross brace defining the back of the front seat is 33" on the steel tube vs.
31" on the long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29" for the steel vs.
28.75for the long wood. Overall from firewall to the back seat cross
brace on the
steel tube is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of leg
room for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot with the
steel tube version. The real difference between the two is from the rear
seat to the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8" longer than the steel
tube version. I do not have my pilots license yet, and this is where my
question comes in. Would not moving the tail feathers back nearly 10" inches
make them much more responsive than on the short version, or is this really
not a noticeable change? It seems to me that with a plane as light as the
Pietenpol, that extra leverage would be significant. Has anyone flown both
the long and short version (wood or steel) and have any input on the
differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fatal gyro crash |
Texas architect Ken Rehler fatally crashed in his award-winning gyro,
N100KR. Pictures of Ken and his gyro, with details of the construction, are
at http://www.rvk-architects.com/ken/gyro/ . The story in today's San
Antonio Express-News is at
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA111105.rehler.en.501920b8.html
No NTSB report yet.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | fatal gyro crash |
Very sad. Based on the article he sounds like a real nice guy. One
positive aspect of the article was that it was well written and accurate as
to the details of the gyro and didn't talk negatively about general aviation
or security or anything. That's refreshing these days. Still, the basic
point is that it's sad to see an innovator and true home-builder like him
go.
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, krnet(at)mylist.net
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: fatal gyro crash
>Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:12:49 -0600
>
>
>
>Texas architect Ken Rehler fatally crashed in his award-winning gyro,
>N100KR. Pictures of Ken and his gyro, with details of the construction,
>are at http://www.rvk-architects.com/ken/gyro/ . The story in today's San
>Antonio Express-News is at
>http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA111105.rehler.en.501920b8.html
>
>No NTSB report yet.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Sure has been quiet on the list lately. That being the case, I'll take up
some space by saying that I worked on rebuilding the pilot's seat this past
week and today. Took out the broken seat bottom, seat back, and seat
framing and scraped back to fresh wood. Cut, fitted, and glued in new seat
framing members. Measured, cut, and getting ready to install the seat
bottom plywood with some "inspection holes" cut in it to get to the cables
and pullies down there. Corky used pullies to route the cables under the
seat, rather than drilled holes as shown in the plans.
As long as I'm in there, I'm fabricating an experimental elevator trim
control using the "ball chain" method and a bungee off the elevator
bellcrank behind the seat. If it works, I'll draw a sketch or put some
photos on my website. For now, it's just an idea and I don't know if it
will work. It presupposes that nose-up trim will be required, so I'll have
to rig it that way or else try something else later. Corky had a bungee
setup that wrapped around the pilot's stick and could be slid up or down the
stick to give more or less back stick force, and I can always revert to that
setup if my scheme doesn't work.
Jumped into the front seat to show a hangar bum how easy it is to do. Ha!
It's still a trick to get into that front 'pit, and once into it, there
isn't a whole lot of room anyway. I can't imagine trying to get in there
wearing a parka and snow boots, but Santa's helpers seem to manage it every
Christmas and the jolly old gent can still slide his own tummy into the
pilot's 'pit somehow, too. He just doesn't have a lot of back stick in the
flare, with the stick all the way back and his belly sucked up to get that
extra few inches...
Sure is fun hanging around the airport on a Saturday, working on the
Pietenpol!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Disassembly and Re-Assembly |
Let's say a guy pulls the wings off of a Pietenpol and
hauls it across the country to a fly-in and then
re-assembles it. With a three piece wing, it wouldn't
be more than an hour to put the wings back on. What I
am talking about is the need for an A&P to sign off
the work. I have a "friend" who has hauled his across
the country, and while it has since gone thru an
annual, no mention has been made of the
dis-mantlement, and the subsequent re-mantlement. Has
my "friend" got himself in trouble?
I think of this dilemma as I visited the website of
the unfortunate victim of the fatal crash of his
gyroplane, as he had hauled that thing all over
creation to different fly-ins. So...what ARE the rules
about this.
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Disassembly and Re-Assembly |
<20051113030515.89141.qmail(at)web53706.mail.yahoo.com>
If he is the builder and has the repairman's certificate for that tail
number then he is qualified to do the condition on that airframe. And thus
he can do just about anything he wants to it. Otherwise that one would
probably require an A&P sign off as a major repair as it is re-rigging of
the plane.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 10:05 PM 11/12/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>Let's say a guy pulls the wings off of a Pietenpol and
>hauls it across the country to a fly-in and then
>re-assembles it. With a three piece wing, it wouldn't
>be more than an hour to put the wings back on. What I
>am talking about is the need for an A&P to sign off
>the work. I have a "friend" who has hauled his across
>the country, and while it has since gone thru an
>annual, no mention has been made of the
>dis-mantlement, and the subsequent re-mantlement. Has
>my "friend" got himself in trouble?
>
>I think of this dilemma as I visited the website of
>the unfortunate victim of the fatal crash of his
>gyroplane, as he had hauled that thing all over
>creation to different fly-ins. So...what ARE the rules
>about this.
>
>Larry Nelson
>Springfield, MO
>Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
>Cessna 195 N9883A
>Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
>1963 GMC 4106-1618
>SV/ Spirit of America
>ARS WB0JOT
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morris <don(at)donsplans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Disassembly and Re-Assembly |
Anyone can do the work on a homebuilt aircraft. There are no
requirements. The only maintenance requirement is that it have an
annual condition inspection, which must be performed by an A&P (IA not
required) or the person with the repairman certificate.
If you check part 43.1 (b) you will find that experimental aircraft are
exempted from ALL maintenance requirements in this part (which is not as
good as it sounds. This doesn't get us out of part 91, and some of this
refers us back to part 43). THe long and short of it is that there is
very little that is actually required to be completed in the way of
paperwork. This doesn't mean that it is wise, but it is the law. You
can always record things not required to be recorded.
Now, as to removal of wings and the subsequent reassembly, this is not a
major repair or alteration (check FAR 43 appendix A). So, yes, you can
drag it all over the contry, and subsequently reassemble and fly it on
your own knowledge only.
Hope this clears thing up a bit.
-Don
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's say a guy pulls the wings off of a Pietenpol and
>> hauls it across the country to a fly-in and then
>> re-assembles it. With a three piece wing, it wouldn't
>> be more than an hour to put the wings back on. What I
>> am talking about is the need for an A&P to sign off
>> the work. I have a "friend" who has hauled his across
>> the country, and while it has since gone thru an
>> annual, no mention has been made of the
>> dis-mantlement, and the subsequent re-mantlement. Has
>> my "friend" got himself in trouble?
>>
>> I think of this dilemma as I visited the website of
>> the unfortunate victim of the fatal crash of his
>> gyroplane, as he had hauled that thing all over
>> creation to different fly-ins. So...what ARE the rules
>> about this.
>>
>> Larry Nelson
>> Springfield, MO
>> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
>> Cessna 195 N9883A
>> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
>> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
>> SV/ Spirit of America
>> ARS WB0JOT
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slow Piet list |
Oscar
I've noticed the slow list as well but figured a lot of people were doing the corvair
college thing... I wish I had been able to make it as I'm in the "gathering"
stage for my corvair engine. I've ran out of money and the heads are ending
up costing me mush more than anticipated. But, such is building your own
airplane...
So, do you have any photos of how the front seat thing is done with the pulley?
I'll be working on that area soon and it sounds like a good idea. Don't know
what to do for trim yet - probably just the bungee around the stick.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
If anyone needs corvair parts, let me know. I've taken apart my second engine
and have stuff I need to part with. I'm keeping the rods and maybe one of the
heads.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
This relates to cockpit room, and what to do about it. This has been bothering
me for many weeks, and the discussion re steel frame, short fuze, etc. brought
it to a head. I have been thinking about cockpit space for weeks, though, measuring
and rethinking.
Now I need some help with it, please.
I have a short wooden Piet fuze, completed except for adding the 2 x 2 foot firewall
itself and the two rounded cowlings and panels (passenger's and pilot's).
It is built to the print as it sits, but I can barely fit in it.
While I am only 6' 1" I have unusually long legs and arms for my size, and (regretably)
have a 48" waist and 260 pounds of weight. I also have size 13 E shoes.
Losing weight will only give me more room for the stick.
Everything else is, and will remain just too tight:
-- None of my shoes will fit through the bulkhead holes into the passenger compartment.
(Barefoot, I have 1/4" clearance.)
-- My shoulders have 1 inch of play left and right. My elbows rub.
-- My knees have 1/2" of clearance in any sitting position.
-- Sitting on the low seat as designed, my legs are virtually straight out and
my feet are only 3 inches benind the FRONT of the passenger seat, and well above
the top of the passenger's seat.
Obviously this Piet won't work for me as it sits. I need more room. I think the
stick will be fine as it is, but the legroom and pedals are problematic right
now.
To get the room, I want to extend the cockpit forward, so as not to make the craft
more tail-heavy. I will add cockpit and lose passenger length. My thought
is that passengers will be in it for only a few minutes, but I will be in it
for hours. It takes a while just to get out of Texas. I would like to make
1-2 long trips a year, esp. to Wisconsin. I want to do it all safely, though.
Here's what I want to do:
1. Widen and lengthen the present holes at the bottom for my feet. This means
cutting out both some plywood (the thin passenger seat back bulkhead) and some
passenger seat bracing. Leave most of the rest of the passenger seat bracing
in place (including the "V" from top to bottom, but modifed somewhat for knee-room),
and add some more bracing transversely to make up for it-- re-stiffening
the bulkhead.
2. Move the following forward 6 inches:
-- the pilot's cowling;
-- the passenger's cowling;
-- the passenger's seat.
3. Re each cowling, the present bracing underneath (a flat plywood rectangle with
two transverse spruce beams, either underneath or above) would become two
triangles behind the new rectangle forward. In the cockpit, these "triangles"
can be mounts for radios on the right and left.
4. Re the passenger's seat, I would add bracing and a new bulkhead in this forward
position, from top to bottom longerons, and tie the former and new bulkheads
together with a thin internal plywood skin. The present passenger seat would
be extended.
5. I want to raise the pilot's seat by five inches. This would not only make
me more upright, it puts my elbows above the fuze. For the seat, I would build
a box above the present frame, and hinge it all for storage and controls inspection.
6. I might raise the pilot's cowling by the same five inches. This would allow
room for bigger guages, to help my eyesight, as well.
7. Will I need to extend the cabanes, as well, perhaps by the same five inches,
or can I add even more?
8. If I allow for a full-sized adult forward, I might need to raise the passenger
seat forward and raise that cowl, as well, to improve the passenger's legroom.
Then most certainly the cabanes would have to go up. I have seen that
many have raised the cabanes by four inches, without doing any of the other tinkering
I am discussing. Is there a practical limit on how far up they can go,
and with what countervailing effects?
9. Raising some of the rest of this, should I not also increase the height of
the rear turtledeck, as well? Will there be turbulence on the rudder from added
height?
IMO, these changes would have:
-- made the cockpit workable for me, and perhaps nearly comfortable, for what
it is;
-- added some weight to regain strength where it might have been compromised;
-- increased the frontal area (if both or either cowling is raised);
-- alternatively (without higher cowlings) raised my head farther into the slipstream
(and/or raised the windshield).
Is this all workable? Is it safe? How will it fly differently?
Comments, please. Don't hold back.
Thanks,
Tim
===
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
This relates to cockpit room, and what to do about it. This has been bothering
me for many weeks, and the discussion re steel frame, short fuze, etc. brought
it to a head. I have been thinking about cockpit space for weeks, though, measuring
and rethinking.
Now I need some help with it, please.
I have a short wooden Piet fuze, completed except for adding the 2 x 2 foot firewall
itself and the two rounded cowlings and panels (passenger's and pilot's).
It is built to the print as it sits, but I can barely fit in it.
While I am only 6' 1" I have unusually long legs and arms for my size, and (regretably)
have a 48" waist and 260 pounds of weight. I also have size 13 E shoes.
Losing weight will only give me more room for the stick.
Everything else is, and will remain just too tight:
-- None of my shoes will fit through the bulkhead holes into the passenger compartment.
(Barefoot, I have 1/4" clearance.)
-- My shoulders have 1 inch of play left and right. My elbows rub.
-- My knees have 1/2" of clearance in any sitting position.
-- Sitting on the low seat as designed, my legs are virtually straight out and
my feet are only 3 inches benind the FRONT of the passenger seat, and well above
the top of the passenger's seat.
Obviously this Piet won't work for me as it sits. I need more room. I think the
stick will be fine as it is, but the legroom and pedals are problematic right
now.
To get the room, I want to extend the cockpit forward, so as not to make the craft
more tail-heavy. I will add cockpit and lose passenger length. My thought
is that passengers will be in it for only a few minutes, but I will be in it
for hours. It takes a while just to get out of Texas. I would like to make
1-2 long trips a year, esp. to Wisconsin. I want to do it all safely, though.
Here's what I want to do:
1. Widen and lengthen the present holes at the bottom for my feet. This means
cutting out both some plywood (the thin passenger seat back bulkhead) and some
passenger seat bracing. Leave most of the rest of the passenger seat bracing
in place (including the "V" from top to bottom, but modifed somewhat for knee-room),
and add some more bracing transversely to make up for it-- re-stiffening
the bulkhead.
2. Move the following forward 6 inches:
-- the pilot's cowling;
-- the passenger's cowling;
-- the passenger's seat.
3. Re each cowling, the present bracing underneath (a flat plywood rectangle with
two transverse spruce beams, either underneath or above) would become two
triangles behind the new rectangle forward. In the cockpit, these "triangles"
can be mounts for radios on the right and left.
4. Re the passenger's seat, I would add bracing and a new bulkhead in this forward
position, from top to bottom longerons, and tie the former and new bulkheads
together with a thin internal plywood skin. The present passenger seat would
be extended.
5. I want to raise the pilot's seat by five inches. This would not only make
me more upright, it puts my elbows above the fuze. For the seat, I would build
a box above the present frame, and hinge it all for storage and controls inspection.
6. I might raise the pilot's cowling by the same five inches. This would allow
room for bigger guages, to help my eyesight, as well.
7. Will I need to extend the cabanes, as well, perhaps by the same five inches,
or can I add even more?
8. If I allow for a full-sized adult forward, I might need to raise the passenger
seat forward and raise that cowl, as well, to improve the passenger's legroom.
Then most certainly the cabanes would have to go up. I have seen that
many have raised the cabanes by four inches, without doing any of the other tinkering
I am discussing. Is there a practical limit on how far up they can go,
and with what countervailing effects?
9. Raising some of the rest of this, should I not also increase the height of
the rear turtledeck, as well? Will there be turbulence on the rudder from added
height?
IMO, these changes would have:
-- made the cockpit workable for me, and perhaps nearly comfortable, for what
it is;
-- added some weight to regain strength where it might have been compromised;
-- increased the frontal area (if both or either cowling is raised);
-- alternatively (without higher cowlings) raised my head farther into the slipstream
(and/or raised the windshield).
Is this all workable? Is it safe? How will it fly differently?
Comments, please. Don't hold back.
Thanks,
Tim
===
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
Strategyguy,
Reading your plight I will offer a few suggestions if I may hoping they will
be accepted in all good faith.
First lets talk about the Pietenpol as designed. It's good, strong, simple
to construct and very safe if flown within it's design envelope. There are
many areas for design change, I didn't say improvement, I said change or
variation. No matter how you build, wood or steel, 1.7 oz or 3.5, Stits process
or
Wal mart vinly you will still arrive at the same performance, TO 40 MPH, climb
50-55, cruise at 65. Unless diving when you might get up to 70.
So why can't any of us vary the construction dimensions to better accomodate
our physical variations. NX41CC was tight for me, 68 in and 195 lbs. My test
pilot, Edwin Johnson, had plenty of room and was comfortable but he's about
like a fart in a whirlwind.
When I began building NX311CC I decided to build an airplane which would be
comfortable to fly either short flights on cross country. I chose the long
fuse design, wood construction and powered by the A65 engine and the three piece
wing. These are the changes from plans I made:
Widened the fuse from firewall to top of passenger V to 27in, wish I had
gone to 28in.
Moved the rudder bar to passenger feet and used Bellanca pedals w/ toe
brakes for pilot. Will have to raise passenger seat so my toes won't drag on
passenger's rear end.
Used a control column from a WWII Fairchild PT 19 or 23. Then a torque tube
to the elevator horn via a walking bell crank.
Nine stringers instead of the seven for turtledeck.
Two stringers for fuse bottom and three for each side.
Cut top longeron at passenger starboard side for a seven in hinged door.
Strengthened with 1X1 spruce to guarantee fuse strength.
Widened wheel track from 56 to 66 in.using steel coils for shocks
Center section spars 33in. Cabanes raised 4 1/2 in. The cabanes are not
vertical but widened at the top
Now I won't guarantee this machine will fly but I assure you that if I give
my Test Pilot enough
Dewar's he will sure try and when I fly it I will have plenty of room for
radio, peanuts.
Hope this let's you know what a fool I am and that it may help solve some of
your problems.
A Louisiana builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | temporary instruments |
I am interested in temporarily installing a few instruments in the
front cockpit for instructional purposes. I figure airspeed,
altitude, and tach at a minimum. I'd very much like to keep it cheap
and very small.
I'd prefer not to use an ASI on the strut, but rather, keep all the
instruments clustered right in front of the pilot.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Disassembly and Re-Assembly |
I've got mixed feelings on this one. Having taken the wings off of NX41CC,
I came to realize that while it is a fairly quick and easy project, it isn't
something you can do every weekend and expect the airplane to fly the same
after each time. There are struts, strut braces, control cables, wing
attach fittings, gap covers, pitot lines, possibly fuel lines (if you have a
wing tank in the outboard sections), and other things involved.
I don't know that I would consider it something that would require sign-off
though, any more than tweaking the rigging in the hangar yourself, after a
flight, to correct a heavy wing or something of the sort. However, it makes
sense to expect the work to be done by someone with knowledge of what they
are doing, and if a guy just goes and buys himself a Piet without having the
skills necessary to rig and adjust things, and he thinks he can take the
wings off and put them back on and get it right, there's an accident waiting
to happen. At the very least, there is the possibility of getting controls
reversed, not reconnecting controls, or rigging the wing in such a way as to
make the plane marginally controllable.
There... I've talked myself into the "get an Ao)
41CC will be due for an annual when I reattach the wings anyway, so mine is
a no-brainer.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhROM/QOI6rTn+KHezPI3AgrgjI9SwIVAMuZoXJZi0UuBxRxsPNazGLx8qIs
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Dissembly and strut asi. |
For what it's worth, Jimmy Franklin dissembled, and tailored his jet
Waco to his appearances, then put it back together for the air show.
Then tailored it to the next show. I'll bet he could do it blindfolded.
Strut asi.-- The ultra light guys have a nifty strut mount asi that
looks like a rain gauge. It uses ram air to raise a disk to calibrating
marked on the "rain gauge " body. It goes to 80 mph. I,m thinking of
going to that in order to eliminate making and mounting a pitot tube and
running tubing to the gauge. Leon S. Already sick of winter, even though
it's been in the 70's.so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | temporary instruments |
Jeff,
Have a look at this site. It may be of interest to you.
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/stratomaster.html
Regards,
JohnW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Subject: Pietenpol-List: temporary instruments
I am interested in temporarily installing a few instruments in the
front cockpit for instructional purposes. I figure airspeed,
altitude, and tach at a minimum. I'd very much like to keep it cheap
and very small.
I'd prefer not to use an ASI on the strut, but rather, keep all the
instruments clustered right in front of the pilot.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Tim;
I see a number of "challenges" to making the changes you have in mind.
Immediately what comes to mind with raising the seat 5"... take a look at
this picture and see where that puts your head and face if you raise the
seat (I'm about 5'-9"): http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030026.jpg
Then look at this picture relative to the cutouts in the passenger's seat
back for your feet: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030016.jpg which is
about the most you can cut away without changing the seat back framing
significantly.
As far as changing the geometry of the "cowling" ahead of the pilot, there
are problems with interference between the instruments and the aileron
control cables, as you can see in this picture:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030024.jpg , which is a photo taken
looking up under the instrument panel and the crossed aileron control cables
are the "X" at the bottom of the photo. If you push the instruments back
more than a few inches, you need to carefully consider which instruments
will be where those cables cross, because they can't be readily moved.
It's all doable, but none of it will be too simple to do with an existing
airframe. There is some load-carrying geometry in the floor crossmembers
relative to the landing gear attach points and the cabane attach points that
you need to respect, but a lot of the other stuff is just a matter of
figuring out what else has to be moved to do what you want, then try it.
September 29, 2005 - November 14, 2005
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-es