Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-er
September 01, 2005 - September 29, 2005
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel prices and gas tanks |
I found out today that the evacuation was called for on Sunday, but
buses and trains stopped on Saturday. So, for the 25% of the
Americans who were below the poverty level in the city and probably
didn't have cars, I guess the solution was to walk out. Too old or
young or infirm to walk out 50 miles? Go to the 'dome. Sit for 5
days; 9 oz of water per day. At least 2 babies have died and several
old folks. So maybe they aren't _all_ assholes for not leaving when
commanded, huh?
As for the lawnmowers and fishing rods and what have you. Yep,
there's always a few assholes. Doesn't mean a thing compared to the
tens of thousands who are suffering.
>
>True,Mark.
>I just got home from gas hunting..No luck.I have about
>1.5 - 2 gallons left in my bike.That will be enough
>for two more trips to work and back .Then i'll buy me
>a shwinn bike.
>Now there is a NUMBER of great folks.Everyone except
>those few bastards luders(spell) are holding up
>together.Helping out each other.Companies open doors
>for people.Distributing ice and drinking water for
>free..The only problem is that we have no gas around
>here to drive and take chance for it.However we are
>here are high spirited.We got through the storm with
>minimal damage here .Got power back so we re cool.No
>water or gas is ok...Hopefully soon we'll get some.
>Now In new orleans few folks (watching here on TV) are
>screaming "take us out,WE WANT OUT" Then walmart
>burgluries.Heared on radio they were breaking in
>hospitals looking for drugs.Hell here on CNN i saw a
>dude running with about three dozens of fishing
>poles.Those assholes(excuse my french) were warned and
>asked to move out.Instread they chosen to ride it
>out.Then they chose to break in the stores and steal
>stuff even if they don't really need 6 pairs of jeans
>or riding lawnmower(sae on CNN boy pushing it out of
>store)
>Then they choose to shoot up the helicopter that was
>rescuing folks.
>Then they acuse government because it's easier to
>blame uncle sam then do something for your own good.
>It's just a type of people.Makes me sick and
>disgusted.Let me tell you,I saw a tramendous help from
>government and other folks.People helping each other
>and this is a bottom line.We'll get through it only
>working together.Now acusing sam or each other.
>
>Peace out.:)
>
>Mitty
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A spark plug gaps |
Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is a
discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently for
magneto use.
Someone please save me the trouble of looking.
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitty <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel prices and gas tanks |
Recon thats why New Orleans is now in Anarchy...??
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/hurricanes_and_tropical_storms
Yeah .Assholes makes me sick..Fighting and
raping,shooting helis down while babies dying?
No good.
--- Jeff Boatright wrote:
>
>
> I found out today that the evacuation was called for
> on Sunday, but
> buses and trains stopped on Saturday. So, for the
> 25% of the
> Americans who were below the poverty level in the
> city and probably
> didn't have cars, I guess the solution was to walk
> out. Too old or
> young or infirm to walk out 50 miles? Go to the
> 'dome. Sit for 5
> days; 9 oz of water per day. At least 2 babies have
> died and several
> old folks. So maybe they aren't _all_ assholes for
> not leaving when
> commanded, huh?
>
> As for the lawnmowers and fishing rods and what have
> you. Yep,
> there's always a few assholes. Doesn't mean a thing
> compared to the
> tens of thousands who are suffering.
>
>
> >
> >True,Mark.
> >I just got home from gas hunting..No luck.I have
> about
> >1.5 - 2 gallons left in my bike.That will be enough
> >for two more trips to work and back .Then i'll buy
> me
> >a shwinn bike.
> >Now there is a NUMBER of great folks.Everyone
> except
> >those few bastards luders(spell) are holding up
> >together.Helping out each other.Companies open
> doors
> >for people.Distributing ice and drinking water for
> >free..The only problem is that we have no gas
> around
> >here to drive and take chance for it.However we are
> >here are high spirited.We got through the storm
> with
> >minimal damage here .Got power back so we re
> cool.No
> >water or gas is ok...Hopefully soon we'll get some.
> >Now In new orleans few folks (watching here on TV)
> are
> >screaming "take us out,WE WANT OUT" Then walmart
> >burgluries.Heared on radio they were breaking in
> >hospitals looking for drugs.Hell here on CNN i saw
> a
> >dude running with about three dozens of fishing
> >poles.Those assholes(excuse my french) were warned
> and
> >asked to move out.Instread they chosen to ride it
> >out.Then they chose to break in the stores and
> steal
> >stuff even if they don't really need 6 pairs of
> jeans
> >or riding lawnmower(sae on CNN boy pushing it out
> of
> >store)
> >Then they choose to shoot up the helicopter that
> was
> >rescuing folks.
> >Then they acuse government because it's easier to
> >blame uncle sam then do something for your own
> good.
> >It's just a type of people.Makes me sick and
> >disgusted.Let me tell you,I saw a tramendous help
> from
> >government and other folks.People helping each
> other
> >and this is a bottom line.We'll get through it only
> >working together.Now acusing sam or each other.
> >
> >Peace out.:)
> >
> >Mitty
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] |
Thanks for the reminder.
Piet content: The plan is to fly the Piet for the first time this evening!
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/02/2005 08:56:16 AM
Larry,
Congratulations, enjoy.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAsAhQ/76CmRolq4NlWJ9Era3oZhwi3IgIUWBx6qFv5d2Gs86SMzaynUerRipY=
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
John: I mounted my belts from a suggestions in an old Buckeye Piet News.
I put a 1x1x2" piece above the lower longeron at the attach location,
then a U strap around the lower longeron with a bolt threw the added
block above. Then a strap from the threw bolt, threw the ply seat bottom
which I will attach the seat belt. The inverted U strap to the added
block above the longeron so as to not have to drill a hole threw the
longeron. I'm going to add a head rest as a routing for the shoulder
harness. This will locate the sholder belts higher and cover the attach
cable that I will run back to the tail wheel bolt. The front belts will
hook up to eye bolts running threw the floor board, ash crossmember, and
14g steel strap. Front shoulder belts will attach to top cabane area ala
Bill Ruewe I scrounged my belts at the Osh. fly market. Leon S. In Ks.
giving to the Red Cross.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A spark plug gaps |
If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018"
If this helps.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps
>
>
>
> Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is a
> discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently for
> magneto use.
>
> Someone please save me the trouble of looking.
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Securing Brake Line to Gear |
We are ready to paint the split axel gear after welding some sort of clips or hold
downs to the aft gear leg to secure the brake line. Would appreciate some
ideas and suggestions.
Lynn & Kevin Knoll
Wichita Vair/Peit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Now here's a topic I can post a useful opinion on. The seatbelts that came
with NX41CC are just fine, but the connection between the shoulder belt and
the lap belt buckle is not the best. It's like the typical Cessna
connection which allows you to disconnect the shoulder harness from the lap
belt buckle in order to lean forward or reach the floor, but the problem is
that it comes off unexpectedly and usually without being noticed. In the
case of 41CC, it is fortunate that Charlie did not have the shoulder harness
disconnected prior to the nose-over incident or he would have been thrown
forward with much more force; as it was, his forehead hit the ignition
switch and snapped the key off in his forehead. I did not charge him for a
replacement key, however ;o)
The best type of harness setup is similar to the ones used in race cars and
aerobatic planes, where the master buckle captures all of the straps in one
release mechanism in a very positive way. The ones I have in my "Flying
Squirrel" are from Summit Racing, 3" wide, and a fraction the cost of what
the aero suppliers want for "authentic airplane" seatbelts.
There are plenty of clear and descriptive website photos out there showing
nifty ways of mounting both seat belts and shoulder harnesses for both
cockpits. Some of the older methods are as on Ernie Moreno's Piet, photos
at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html and one of the neatest
passenger shoulder harness connections is somewhere on the U.K. Piet
builders' site but I don't remember where.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Just had a peek at the UK Pietenpol site, and found some pictures of
G-BUXK, taking it's maiden flight.
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/
G-BUXK is the first Pietenpol to be fitted with the new Wilksch WAM 100
three cylinder engine that can run on diesel or jet fuel.
http://www.wilksch.com/
Looks like it works!
The only drawback I see is the cost - approx 11,000 pounds, or
$20,000 US.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A spark plug gaps |
How about a Scintilla, Walt? I reckon I will set them
at .018" just for fun. Goin' flyin' again manana with
new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on
very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my
very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go
figure THAT ONE out.
Thanks Walt.
--- walt evans wrote:
>
>
> If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018"
> If this helps.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is
> a
> > discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently
> for
> > magneto use.
> >
> > Someone please save me the trouble of looking.
> >
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Cessna 195 N9883A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> protection around
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spirialing Slipstream |
In a message dated 9/2/2005 5:00:27 PM Central Standard Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
Goin' flyin' again manana with new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't
have it on
very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my very first flight. It
went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go figure THAT ONE out.
Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to
the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage
at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose
to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A spark plug gaps |
Larry,
I don't know . It's just the concept was explained to me by my mentor. The
era of the Eismann Mags were during a time that the voltage output wasn't
that high. So the spark couldnt jump that far. Today the voltages are so
high in the auto ignitions, that the amperage is low and the plugs last
forever.
My guess would be that if those mags are from the same era, the gap would be
the same.
I just searched on Google.com for "scintilla", then at the bottom under
"search within results" searched "magneto" then under "search within
results" again,,,searched "gap".
Got oodles of sites explaining the old mags, and their gappage.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps
>
> How about a Scintilla, Walt? I reckon I will set them
> at .018" just for fun. Goin' flyin' again manana with
> new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on
> very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my
> very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go
> figure THAT ONE out.
>
> Thanks Walt.
>
>
> --- walt evans wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018"
> > If this helps.
> > walt evans
> > NX140DL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is
> > a
> > > discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently
> > for
> > > magneto use.
> > >
> > > Someone please save me the trouble of looking.
> > >
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Cessna 195 N9883A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > protection around
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spirialing Slipstream |
Chuck,
My understanting of this whole thing is that the offset of the engine that we put
in upon building ( down and to the right or left) is a way to make the plane
fly straight during mid range power.
During normal climbout the Piet is angled up, but a plane doesn't follow the nose
angle, so the prop see's a condition where the prop is taking bigger bites
on the right side. So a right rudder is in order. (P- Factor)
When you chop the power, the oppisite seems to happen,,you need left rudder.
If you ever read , in depth, about the pilots that fly behind the WWI planes where
the cylinders spin,,like at Old Rhinebeck,,It's a whole new class of flying.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream
Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to the
left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage
at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose to
the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 |
Agreed......
----- Original Message -----
From: DONALD COOLEY
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05
Sr. Gower,
Don't worry about your English...it's better than that we hear from some
of our "native sons". I have always enjoyed your contributions and have never
had any trouble understanding them. Keep up the good work! Don Cooley, rib
jig under way in Fairfield, CA
Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sbobka(at)charter.net" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Spirialing Slipstream |
Chuck,
If it smacks the left side of the vertical stab, it would push the nose to
the left.
chris
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:29:41 EDT
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream
In a message dated 9/2/2005 5:00:27 PM Central Standard Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
Goin' flyin' again manana with new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't
have it on
very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my very first flight. It
went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go figure THAT ONE out.
Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to
the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the
fuselage
at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose
to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the
fuselage.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spirialing Slipstream & Other Forces |
In a message dated 9/2/2005 6:58:15 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net writes:
Chuck,
My understanting of this whole thing is that the offset of the engine that we
put in upon building ( down and to the right or left) is a way to make the
plane fly straight during mid range power.
During normal climbout the Piet is angled up, but a plane doesn't follow the
nose angle, so the prop see's a condition where the prop is taking bigger
bites on the right side. So a right rudder is in order. (P- Factor)
When you chop the power, the oppisite seems to happen,,you need left rudder.
If you ever read , in depth, about the pilots that fly behind the WWI planes
where the cylinders spin,,like at Old Rhinebeck,,It's a whole new class=20of
flying.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream
Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to
the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage
at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose
to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage.
Chuck G.
Soon after I sent this message, I realized my error...a couple of them in
fact !! The spiraling slipstream rotates around the fuse in a Counter Clockwise
direction, when viewing from the front, looking back...the same direction the
prop rotates. This negates the possibility that it was the cause of Larry's
oil filler cap going past him on the left side (the Model A oil filler cap is
on the right side of the engine) . Maybe it came off, and just bounced of the
cabane strut, and bounced to the left side.
Let me attempt to explain the forces involved that makes the plane yaw to the
left. For a Corvair engine, which spins in the Wrong direction :) the
engine and prop rotates in the opposite direction, all these forces cause the
plane to yaw to the right. The Brits built the Hawker Sea Fury, which also=20had
an engine that spins in the Wrong direction !! It was a rude awakening for
guys that were not used to it.
Angle of Attack - The angle represented between the Mean Aerodynamic Chord,
and the Relative Wind.
Spiraling Slipstream - Circulates around the fuselage in a helical pattern,
at slower airspeeds. At higher speeds it tends to straighten out, and at
speeds when the airframe is overrunning the prop, there is No spiraling slipstream,
and the airflow is parallel to the fuselage. At the slower speeds, and high
thrust (Takeoff) It might make a full revolution around the fuse, coming up=20in
front of the Left Horizontal Stab, and smack the Left side of the Vertical
Stab, causing the plane to Yaw to the Left.
P - Factor - When the airframe is at a High Angle of Attack, the prop blade
that is descending is at a higher angle of attack than the one that is going
up. This means the blade that is descending (on the right side) is pulling
harder than the one going up (on the left side), causing an un-equal pull on the
crankshaft, and causing the airframe to yaw to the Left. At a Zero angle of
Attack, there is no P-Factor.
Torque - The most powerful of the forces, and it causes the airframe to Roll
Left. Imagine if a Giant Hand grabbed the spinning prop, stopping it, causing
the rest of the airframe to rotate, or roll, to the Left. The highest thrust
is produced when the airframe is sitting still, and at full power...such as
doing a Static Run Up. If you could put a pull gage between the prop and the
airframe, this is the time period when the highest thrust reading will occur.
In
cruise flight, the prop is not producing nearly as much thrust, and when the
airframe overruns the prop, Thrust and Torque Factor is not even there.
Gyroscopic Precession - When a spinning mass on an axle is moved at the axis,
this force acts at a Ninety Degree angle to the force that moved it. This
force only occurs DURING a change in attitude, such as when on the Take Off
roll, during motion of the tail coming up. As soon as the tail is up, and the
motion ceases, Gyroscopic Precession is no longer there. It causes the nose to
pull to the Left. This is the force that wreaked havoc on those pilots of
planes that the cylinders rotated with the prop, like the Gnome Engine. That
rotating mass had so much Gyroscopic Precession, that even full rudder could not
overcome it. A good example would be if you took a Spoked Wire Wheel from a
Pietenpol (or even a bicycle), and held it at arms reach, holding end of the
axle with each hand, and the tire almost rubbing on your nose, have someone=20spin
the tire, and then tilt the axle. There is a Very Noticeable force that acts
at a 90=BA angle to the direction that you tilted the spinning wheel. The
faster that mass spins the higher the force, and the more that mass weights, the
higher the force. This is also the reason that Crop Dusters always wore out
the thrust bearing at the front of the engine, from doing all those hammerhead
turn arounds !!
These are Dynamic Forces, and change constantly through each phase of flight.
That's is one of the reasons why the trim changes.
The Engine Mount angled Down, is an effort to reduce the Pendulum Effect of
the thrust pulling forward at a location that is below the horizontal Center of
Gravity, causing the nose to pitch up. The thrust line is below the high
drag of the wing, and it causes a nose up pitch when power is applied, is another
way of saying it. The closer the wings Mean Aerodynamic Chord is located to
the Thrust Line, the less the need to angle the engine mount down. A low wing
airplane has the opposite effect.
The Engine Mount angled to the Right, is an effort to counteract all of the
forces that cause the airframe to yaw left.
Everything in the design of an aircraft is a compromise. That's why when you
change something in the original design, you WILL effect other items and
flight characteristics.
Gives ya a Lot to think about...huh?
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Wow !! All this, trying to figure out why Larry's oil filler cap went flying
past him on the Left side...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Needed a new vice anyhow |
I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x .095 landing gear tubing
was too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece ok then was squeezing
the end of the second piece and boom! One of the vice jaws went East and the
tube departed in a Southerly direction.
Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Needed a new vice anyhow |
lookout corky!
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice anyhow
I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x .095 landing gear tubing was
too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece ok then was squeezing the
end of the second piece and boom! One of the vice jaws went East and the tube
departed in a Southerly direction.
Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Custom-Built Pietenpol Assemblies |
Some of you might remember Dave Stephens, who had the nicely done Corvair fuselage
at Brodhead this year. He enjoys building so much he wants to build and sell
Piet assemblies. Check out his website below. He will be basing his Piet
here at Hales Landing soon unless too many people order too many Piet parts and
he doesn't have time to finish his own ;)
http://home.frognet.net/~rdstephe/
Skip
csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
ETAtAhUAkP9NSLFiL792GUx8HBzlmtXrUMYCFG+RCbYiNxaULWNdL/lNDop2IXOs
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Brake Line to Gear |
Hi Lynn: I'm going to secure my brake lines with good ol plastic zip
ties. Gives the old airplane a modern look. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying the Ford |
I took my second flight yesterday. About 25 minutes
this time. Started too late in the morning and it was
getting gusty 1,000' AGL. Until I get more familiar, I
am going to be very careful.
I have a new oil cap now and it stayed on. I installed
new Motorcraft plugs and gapped them at .022 as that
was what the old plugs were.
I am wondering if you Model A flyers throttle back at
"cruise", as I have been doing?
I will soon begin to load the front cockpit with a
sandbag or something I can safely secure, and start
carrying a bit more weight, just for the experience.
BTW.......I LOVE IT!!!
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Brake Line to Gear |
White or black? I've got some black ones and they look
a lot better than the white. I think I remember reading
that the black was more UV resistant too but not sure
of that.
Clif
>
> Hi Lynn: I'm going to secure my brake lines with good ol plastic zip
> ties. Gives the old airplane a modern look. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/03/05 |
Welcome Tim,
Glad you are making the plunge. Sounds like you are
ready to get your feet wet in the fantastic world of
aviation...so, "Hook'em Horns!" Have fun building and
enjoy the total experience. Certainly persue the
flight training as you will want to be ready to enjoy
your completed aircraft as soon as it is ready to fly.
This list will be very helpful to you and feel free to
ask any questions you may have. You may not agree
with all of the responses, but that is ok. At least
you will have more information to make your own
decisions from.
Best wishes,
Doc H
--- Tim Willis wrote:
> This email is directed to the club in general and
> our moderator in particular. The first part of this
> message deals with my membership problems, and the
> second part introduces me to the group.
>
> I just got a notice from Yahoo that my membership
> had been denied because the moderator had not
> replied to my request for membership. I don't know
> what has happened, for I have been getting the
> message list for the last week or so. Maybe the
> moderator needs to do one more thing?
>
> Otherwise, about 10 days ago I bought some well
> assembled Piet parts-- the fuselage assembly, tail
> feathers and most of the wing ribs. I should have
> a plan set later this week, having bought it from a
> fellow in Ohio who was not going to be able to use
> them soon.
> I have ordered the Corvair manual from William Wynne
> and have been ogling all sorts of Piet material on
> the Internet. I would never undertake building a
> plane without the Internet's fantastic means of
> communication including pictures and the support of
> groups like this. You all have some great postings
> on this site. Thanks already. I look forward to
> interacting, learning and sharing with you all.
>
> My name is Tim Willis. I retired with over 30 years
> service from SBC Communications (actually from SBC
> Labs in Austin). I consult part-time now in a
> couple of venues toally unrelated to flying.
>
> I owned and operated a commercial machine shop in
> St. Louis many years ago, so I know how to turn and
> mill metal. Unfortunately, I no longer have a shop
> of that sort, but a neighbor does. I used to be a
> fair welder, but will have to practice again to
> avoid birds__t welds like my last few. I hve no
> sheet metal experience and am glad to be building a
> plane that requires little, except for the cowl. I
> have a fairly complete set of wood power tools--
> both bench and hand-- and an ample 5-car garage,
> complete with HVAC and a urinal. Move in a fridge
> and I can stay in there all day!
>
> I am 64 years old and have never owned a plane or
> even learned to fly, but I have been interested all
> my life. I figured it was time to do this now, or
> soon it will be too late. My earliest memories
> involve blimps and USN fighter aircraft in southern
> California during WWII. My first plane ride was in
> a B-25 out of Rome, NY. I have been to Oshkosh, and
> many years ago handled small planes in the air a few
> times, mostly Cessna 172s, but no landings or
> takeoffs. Flying lessons in a Cessna 152 will start
> later this year. I will also be getting added
> flying time in with another fellow who owns a 172.
>
> I have never seen a finished Pietenpol. My idea has
> always been to own an open cockpit plane and just
> fly for the thrill of it. The Piet looks like it
> will fill the bill very nicely. I like the fact
> that it is a historic classic design, and that so
> many love this little plane.
>
> My wife Dixie and I live 7 miles west of Georgetown,
> TX, which is about 30 miles north of downtown Austin
> on I-35. We have been in Texas 10 years and in
> Missouri for 30 years before that. I am originally
> from east Tennessee, but am glad I am learning to
> fly here, not there. Flatter and less rocky Kansas
> would be even better.
>
> I hope to hear from you. One member here in Texas
> has already offered help and a ride. I hope to get
> into this much more actively after I get three more
> critical projects and a knee surgery out of the way.
> I'd like to be flying this wooden wonder next year.
> It's just a thousand small steps from here to
> there.
>
> Tim Willis
> 20137 West Lake Pkwy.
> Georgetown, TX 78628
> mobile 512.864.4158
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Server
> wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with
> a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-03.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-03.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 09/03/05: 5
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:27 AM - Needed a new vice anyhow (Rick
> Holland)
> 2. 09:12 AM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow
> (Christian Bobka)
> 3. 10:19 AM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow
> (Isablcorky(at)aol.com)
> 4. 10:24 AM - Custom-Built Pietenpol Assemblies
> (Cinda Gadd)
> 5. 12:20 PM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow (Rick
> Holland)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Rick Holland
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice anyhow
>
> I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x
> .095 landing gear tubing
> was too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece
> ok then was squeezing
> the end of the second piece and boom! One of the
> vice jaws went East and the
> tube departed in a Southerly direction.
>
> Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Christian Bobka"
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice
> anyhow
>
> lookout corky!
> Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und
> Flitzermotoren
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Holland
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:26 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice anyhow
>
>
> I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x
> .095 landing gear tubing was
> too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece ok
> then was squeezing the
> end of the second piece and boom! One of the vice
> jaws went East and the tube
> departed in a Southerly direction.
>
> Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitty <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/03/05 |
Nice to meet you Tim.
I dont have a pietenpol but like going through the
group and read up too.
Mitty
--- Tim Willis wrote:
> This email is directed to the club in general and
> our moderator in particular. The first part of this
> message deals with my membership problems, and the
> second part introduces me to the group.
>
> I just got a notice from Yahoo that my membership
> had been denied because the moderator had not
> replied to my request for membership. I don't know
> what has happened, for I have been getting the
> message list for the last week or so. Maybe the
> moderator needs to do one more thing?
>
> Otherwise, about 10 days ago I bought some well
> assembled Piet parts-- the fuselage assembly, tail
> feathers and most of the wing ribs. I should have
> a plan set later this week, having bought it from a
> fellow in Ohio who was not going to be able to use
> them soon.
> I have ordered the Corvair manual from William Wynne
> and have been ogling all sorts of Piet material on
> the Internet. I would never undertake building a
> plane without the Internet's fantastic means of
> communication including pictures and the support of
> groups like this. You all have some great postings
> on this site. Thanks already. I look forward to
> interacting, learning and sharing with you all.
>
> My name is Tim Willis. I retired with over 30 years
> service from SBC Communications (actually from SBC
> Labs in Austin). I consult part-time now in a
> couple of venues toally unrelated to flying.
>
> I owned and operated a commercial machine shop in
> St. Louis many years ago, so I know how to turn and
> mill metal. Unfortunately, I no longer have a shop
> of that sort, but a neighbor does. I used to be a
> fair welder, but will have to practice again to
> avoid birds__t welds like my last few. I hve no
> sheet metal experience and am glad to be building a
> plane that requires little, except for the cowl. I
> have a fairly complete set of wood power tools--
> both bench and hand-- and an ample 5-car garage,
> complete with HVAC and a urinal. Move in a fridge
> and I can stay in there all day!
>
> I am 64 years old and have never owned a plane or
> even learned to fly, but I have been interested all
> my life. I figured it was time to do this now, or
> soon it will be too late. My earliest memories
> involve blimps and USN fighter aircraft in southern
> California during WWII. My first plane ride was in
> a B-25 out of Rome, NY. I have been to Oshkosh, and
> many years ago handled small planes in the air a few
> times, mostly Cessna 172s, but no landings or
> takeoffs. Flying lessons in a Cessna 152 will start
> later this year. I will also be getting added
> flying time in with another fellow who owns a 172.
>
> I have never seen a finished Pietenpol. My idea has
> always been to own an open cockpit plane and just
> fly for the thrill of it. The Piet looks like it
> will fill the bill very nicely. I like the fact
> that it is a historic classic design, and that so
> many love this little plane.
>
> My wife Dixie and I live 7 miles west of Georgetown,
> TX, which is about 30 miles north of downtown Austin
> on I-35. We have been in Texas 10 years and in
> Missouri for 30 years before that. I am originally
> from east Tennessee, but am glad I am learning to
> fly here, not there. Flatter and less rocky Kansas
> would be even better.
>
> I hope to hear from you. One member here in Texas
> has already offered help and a ride. I hope to get
> into this much more actively after I get three more
> critical projects and a knee surgery out of the way.
> I'd like to be flying this wooden wonder next year.
> It's just a thousand small steps from here to
> there.
>
> Tim Willis
> 20137 West Lake Pkwy.
> Georgetown, TX 78628
> mobile 512.864.4158
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Server
> wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with
> a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-03.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-03.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 09/03/05: 5
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:27 AM - Needed a new vice anyhow (Rick
> Holland)
> 2. 09:12 AM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow
> (Christian Bobka)
> 3. 10:19 AM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow
> (Isablcorky(at)aol.com)
> 4. 10:24 AM - Custom-Built Pietenpol Assemblies
> (Cinda Gadd)
> 5. 12:20 PM - Re: Needed a new vice anyhow (Rick
> Holland)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Rick Holland
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice anyhow
>
> I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x
> .095 landing gear tubing
> was too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece
> ok then was squeezing
> the end of the second piece and boom! One of the
> vice jaws went East and the
> tube departed in a Southerly direction.
>
> Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Christian Bobka"
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice
> anyhow
>
> lookout corky!
> Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und
> Flitzermotoren
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Holland
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:26 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Needed a new vice anyhow
>
>
> I have never broken a vice before but that 1 3/8 x
> .095 landing gear tubing was
> too much for mine. Squeezed the end of one piece ok
> then was squeezing the
> end of the second piece and boom! One of the vice
> jaws went East and the tube
> departed in a Southerly direction.
>
> Home depot here I come. Needed a bigger vice anyhow.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Propellers |
I'll be ordering from Tennessee but one of the criteria of ordering is
to know the hub thickness.I have all the rest of the info but this.Could
someone inform me of this piece of data,thanks.
>
>
> Harvey ..They both have on line order forms on their web sites at;
> www.sensenich.com and
> www.tn-prop.com..I bought from Tennessee because their price was half
> the price of a Sensenich uncertified prop without the brass leading
> edge..I set out to buy a Culver prop and found that Tennessee had
> bought them out...They have the template for the older Franklin
> hub..Which ever way you go make sure you stress your bolt pattern to
> them..The PLZ Franklins use an SAE pattern and when you say Franklin
> that's what they seem to think you need. I got mine several months ago
> and the workmanship in it is top notch and it has a nice classic shape
> to it...Ed Grentzer
>
>
>> From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
>> Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
>> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:19:39 -0400
>>
>>
>> That's correct;the man I bought it from told me that he didn't think the
>> adaptor set up was all that safe and he felt that it was too heavy with
>> the metal prop.So much so,that he felt there was a danger of tipping
>> over easily.He suggested that I switch to a wooden prop and the AME that
>> is helping me said that a wooden prop would also be smoother.So I'm in
>> the market for a wood prop with either a 72X42 or 72X43 for the 80hp.I
>> have sent out letters to both Sensenich and Tennessee and have received
>> no info back.I believe that they want all the particulars with regards
>> to bolt pattern etc.before they will get back to me.In one situation you
>> have to fill out an order form first.So I have to wait till I can get
>> back to the aircraft to glean all that info.I will be selling that
>> McCauley prop if anyone is interested.And the adaptor as well.With a
>> wood prop on I may be able to reinstall the starter.That ,however may
>> just put me right back where I started with the danger of tipping.With
>> the starter,the metal prop and adaptor on it will tip over unless I tie
>> a rock to the rear,HAHAHA!I'd probably land up in the Redeau River eh
>> guys!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
>> Hansen
>> Sent: August 17, 2005 9:38 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
>>
>> <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>>
>> Chris and Ed,
>>
>> Harvey has an adapter on the Franklin which allows him to use the
>> Continental props. It had been machined for that purpose.
>>
>> I saw it in May when I was at Ottawa and, at that time, a McCauley metal
>>
>> prop (for a Continental) was fitted. His friend, an Aircraft Maintenance
>>
>> Engineer (as I am), told him a wooden prop would be safer with that
>> adapter.
>> I agree with his engineer.
>>
>> Harvey bought his GN 1 in an advanced state of construction and all this
>>
>> stuff was done by the builder.
>>
>> It would be better if he could find a wooden Sensenich for the Franklin,
>> but
>> I think that is not too likely. A custom-built prop to fit the Franklin
>> would, if he decides to go that route, allow him to ditch the adapter.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/03/05 |
Hi Tim,
Welcome to the group, sounds like you are set up to have some fun. I myself
am relatively new to the group and my Piet doesn't look much like an
airplane yet. Given time it will, just have to keep plugging away at it bit
by bit and one day it will be finished.
As you have already noticed, this group has a wealth of information that the
members are happy to share with other Piet enthusiasts. So, if you have a
question, fire away, someone can probably solve your problem.
I think the most important thing is to just keep at it, sometimes your
progress will be good, other times not so good, but any progress is a
learning experience................keep on Pieting !!
Regards
Mark S
Japan....Typhoon # 14 passing by.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Willis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 1:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/03/05
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Replying to messages |
| From: | rhartwig11(at)juno.com |
Piet Listers,
Please trim off the message you are replying to. All of that repeated
stuff goes into the archive. Your message may only be a few lines, but
the repeated stuff takes up many more lines and that all takes up room in
the archive. It also makes reading the digest very difficult.
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Replying to messages |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
Here are a few pics of me doing an engine run up and test.Work
progressing.As you can see the braising wires are still not installed
.The brakes aren't working as yet and I havn't finished the work on the
stirrup but as you can see I went to the tried and true cut out
method.Lots more work to do.One person in the know took one look at the
engine and noticed the studs holding the exhaust pipes on were mighty
short.Check off one thing on the list and five more things show
up.Having fun here in Ottawa,keep on Pieting!As one guy said
earlier,just try to wipe that smile off my face!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/03/05 |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/06/2005 09:51:30 AM
Tim,
Welcome to the Pietenpol club.
Don't forget to get your tailwheel endorsement.
Or better yet try to get your PPL in a tail dragger.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Propellers |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/06/2005 10:01:28 AM
Harvey,
I also bought my Prop from Tennessee prop.
It is driven by a Corvair about 100 HP @ 3100 RPM (it is probably closer to
70 Hp@ 2700 RPM) and the prop hub is 3 inch.
The 3 inch was suggested by Tennessee prop as the best solution for that HP
range.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Propellers |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
Thankyou Hans;I will order it with that hub thickness.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
Harvey,
I also bought my Prop from Tennessee prop.
It is driven by a Corvair about 100 HP @ 3100 RPM (it is probably closer
to
70 Hp@ 2700 RPM) and the prop hub is 3 inch.
The 3 inch was suggested by Tennessee prop as the best solution for that
HP
range.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Propellers |
Hi Harvey...I ordered a 3 1/2" thick hub because My Franklin crankshaft has
a 3 1/2" long snout on it..Steve at Tennessee Props said he alread had a 3
5/8" thich blank made up so that's what I ended up getting....Ed Grentzer
>From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
>Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:54:49 -0400
>
>
>
>I'll be ordering from Tennessee but one of the criteria of ordering is to
>know the hub thickness.I have all the rest of the info but this.Could
>someone inform me of this piece of data,thanks.
>
>>
>>
>>Harvey ..They both have on line order forms on their web sites at;
>>www.sensenich.com and
>>www.tn-prop.com..I bought from Tennessee because their price was half the
>>price of a Sensenich uncertified prop without the brass leading edge..I
>>set out to buy a Culver prop and found that Tennessee had bought them
>>out...They have the template for the older Franklin hub..Which ever way
>>you go make sure you stress your bolt pattern to them..The PLZ Franklins
>>use an SAE pattern and when you say Franklin that's what they seem to
>>think you need. I got mine several months ago and the workmanship in it is
>>top notch and it has a nice classic shape to it...Ed Grentzer
>>
>>
>>>From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
>>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:19:39 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>>That's correct;the man I bought it from told me that he didn't think the
>>>adaptor set up was all that safe and he felt that it was too heavy with
>>>the metal prop.So much so,that he felt there was a danger of tipping
>>>over easily.He suggested that I switch to a wooden prop and the AME that
>>>is helping me said that a wooden prop would also be smoother.So I'm in
>>>the market for a wood prop with either a 72X42 or 72X43 for the 80hp.I
>>>have sent out letters to both Sensenich and Tennessee and have received
>>>no info back.I believe that they want all the particulars with regards
>>>to bolt pattern etc.before they will get back to me.In one situation you
>>>have to fill out an order form first.So I have to wait till I can get
>>>back to the aircraft to glean all that info.I will be selling that
>>>McCauley prop if anyone is interested.And the adaptor as well.With a
>>>wood prop on I may be able to reinstall the starter.That ,however may
>>>just put me right back where I started with the danger of tipping.With
>>>the starter,the metal prop and adaptor on it will tip over unless I tie
>>>a rock to the rear,HAHAHA!I'd probably land up in the Redeau River eh
>>>guys!
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
>>>Hansen
>>>Sent: August 17, 2005 9:38 PM
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
>>>
>>><grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>>>
>>>Chris and Ed,
>>>
>>>Harvey has an adapter on the Franklin which allows him to use the
>>>Continental props. It had been machined for that purpose.
>>>
>>>I saw it in May when I was at Ottawa and, at that time, a McCauley metal
>>>
>>>prop (for a Continental) was fitted. His friend, an Aircraft Maintenance
>>>
>>>Engineer (as I am), told him a wooden prop would be safer with that
>>>adapter.
>>>I agree with his engineer.
>>>
>>>Harvey bought his GN 1 in an advanced state of construction and all this
>>>
>>>stuff was done by the builder.
>>>
>>>It would be better if he could find a wooden Sensenich for the Franklin,
>>>but
>>>I think that is not too likely. A custom-built prop to fit the Franklin
>>>would, if he decides to go that route, allow him to ditch the adapter.
>>>
>>>Graham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sncliffe(at)aol.com |
How do I unsubscribe please?
Nick Cliffe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
It's all (subscribe, unsubscribe) there on the same page you were subscribed
on.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Sncliffe(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi
How do I unsubscribe please?
Nick Cliffe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 5pm |
PDT
Dear Listers,
I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today,
Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and
searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for
be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics
System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web
server and won't be available during the upgrade):
http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
at this time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
Harvey wrote-
>I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
>gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on the
KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
This
is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
so it
doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part that
would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the states available
to you? :-)
Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you?
As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that if we can
get it, YOU can get it (from us)!
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
at this time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
Harvey wrote-
>I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
>gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on the
KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
This
is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
so it
doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part that
would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
I guess your right Jim,I never thought of that.Let me talk to my other
friends in the theatre business first and if I can't get a roll from
them then I will try getting it from you.Thanks very much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the
states available to you? :-)
Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you?
As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that
if we can get it, YOU can get it (from us)!
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
at this time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
Harvey wrote-
>I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
>gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on the
KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
This
is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
so it
doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part that
would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Starting out / was Digest: ... |
Tim -
If you're just starting to learn to fly and you want to build and fly a
Piet, forget the C-152 and get your flight instruction in a light
taildragger of some sort (Cub, T-Craft, Champ,...). The dynamics are
different. It would be a pain to get your rating in the 152 and then have
to go back to add on your taildragger endorsement later, when you could
effectively get it for free by starting out in one.
When it's over you'll be able to fly the 152 half-awake.
Jim Ash
>This email is directed to the club in general and our moderator in
>particular.
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting out / was Digest: ... |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.555, required 3, AWL 0.04, BAYES_00 -2.60)
Jim Ash wrote:
>
> Tim -
>
> If you're just starting to learn to fly and you want to build and fly
> a Piet, forget the C-152 and get your flight instruction in a light
> taildragger of some sort (Cub, T-Craft, Champ,...). The dynamics are
> different. It would be a pain to get your rating in the 152 and then
> have to go back to add on your taildragger endorsement later, when you
> could effectively get it for free by starting out in one.
>
> When it's over you'll be able to fly the 152 half-awake.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
Jim It might be a good idea, but you you intend to buy a tailwheel
airplane, you have to find a place to rent a tailwheel airplane and
those are few and far between. The reason is simple. Insurance or the
lack thereof. The last time I checked insurance companies simply were
not covering tailwheel airplanes for rent at any price.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lots avaiable at West Virginia airpark |
Just found out there are 2 or 3 lots for sale at this vary Pietenpol friendly airpark.
We have a grass runway which we are extending from 2600 to 3000 feet.
Three Piets are under construction here.
http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
Contact me off list for details.
Skip Gadd
csfog(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacklemAW(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
Recently there was some discussion about sealing airfoil gaps. Someone
recommended piano hinges for the ailerons. Any reason why this wouldn't work for
the elevators too?
Allan W. Macklem
MacklemAW(at)aol.com
TEL: 402 880 6559 // 402 289 2298 FAX: 402 289 3474
Personal growth comes from being
surrounded by highly talented people.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/08/2005 12:00:55 PM
Allan,
Yes, I am sure you can get it to work but is it needed?
My Pietenpol is very responsive on elevator and rudder with the Vi Kapler
hinges.
No gap seals.
I do have the piano hinges on the Ailerons, only because it is easier to
make.
Some claim better aileron response but I can not confirm or deny that,
never flew the other type.
Good response on Aileron though.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
hlink.net>
Jim-- I agree. Aluminum piano hinges are a simple aileron gap solution,
and I really don't think that
seals on the tail surfaces are worth the hassle. Mine flies just fine
without them. If you recess (route out)
your hinge areas wether using the Vi Kapler cast aluminum hinges or make
you own per plans as I did (what a pain
those are !) you can get a fairly tight gap there. The GN-1's have huge
gaps with the way they show to do the tailsurface
and aileron hinges. No knock---just pointing out some differences in the
planes.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting out / was Digest: ... |
I know of two Cubs for rent in this general area, but I don't know if/how they
handle the insurance or if they'll cover primary instruction.
I've got a friend who's livelihood is teaching and giving rides in taildraggers.
Three(?) years ago he stopped renting his Cub solo, because the insurance was
$1800 or $3600, depending on solo rental, so I understand the issue.
Jim Ash
northern New Hampshire
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Starting out / was Digest: ...
Jim Ash wrote:
>
> Tim -
>
> If you're just starting to learn to fly and you want to build and fly
> a Piet, forget the C-152 and get your flight instruction in a light
> taildragger of some sort (Cub, T-Craft, Champ,...). The dynamics are
> different. It would be a pain to get your rating in the 152 and then
> have to go back to add on your taildragger endorsement later, when you
> could effectively get it for free by starting out in one.
>
> When it's over you'll be able to fly the 152 half-awake.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
Jim It might be a good idea, but you you intend to buy a tailwheel
airplane, you have to find a place to rent a tailwheel airplane and
those are few and far between. The reason is simple. Insurance or the
lack thereof. The last time I checked insurance companies simply were
not covering tailwheel airplanes for rent at any price.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
My AME sez go fly the plane without gap seals on either airlerone or
elevator.He sez I may not need them.He sez if you find you do then put
them on but not before.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
Jim-- I agree. Aluminum piano hinges are a simple aileron gap solution,
and I really don't think that
seals on the tail surfaces are worth the hassle. Mine flies just fine
without them. If you recess (route out)
your hinge areas wether using the Vi Kapler cast aluminum hinges or make
you own per plans as I did (what a pain
those are !) you can get a fairly tight gap there. The GN-1's have
huge
gaps with the way they show to do the tailsurface
and aileron hinges. No knock---just pointing out some differences in
the
planes.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | to gap or not to gap |
ce.ca>
Frank Pavliga's plane first flew without aileron seals and after the first
few flights they put on fabric
gap seals (that were pre-finished ahead of installation) and he said it
made a vast improvement on aileron
response. You could fly them without---for sure, you bet--you'll just get
more umph from them when sealed.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick <wd6auy(at)coastinet.com> |
Skipp - tried to mail you 'off-list' w/out success. The kick back
message would not work for me. Am interested in West Virginia (born and
raised) - now in CA. Pls try me off list. 73's, Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to gap or not to gap |
In 1963, I flew a friend's Pietenpol which had no gap seals and the aileron
response was extremely sluggish. In fact, it was necessary to use some
rudder to bring up a low wing if a reasonable response was desired. He had
not used the standard Pietenpol wingtip, but had simply terminated the
outboard end of the wing at a rib (eg. Mooney). At the time, I thought this
might have been a factor, but it wasn't.
Later, he used tape as a gap seal and said the aileron response was much
improved but, since I never flew it again, I cannot attest to this.
When I first flew my Pietenpol in1970 there had been a lot of talk about
poor aileron response without gap seals, and I distinctly remembered my
experience with Floyd's airplane. So I used plastic tape from the beginning,
reasoning that poor aileron response would be one thing less to deal with
during initial test flights. Later, I experimented by removing the sealing
tape, a bit at a time, until one aileron was completely unsealed. In this
condition, the seal-less wing definitely tended to "fly low", and aileron
response had been noticeably degraded. Needless to say, my Pietenpol has had
aileron gap seals ever since and its aileron response with them is
excellent.
In 1985, I replaced all the fabric covering (the original Grade A cotton had
deteriorated over a 15 year period) with polyester aircraft fabric and used
fabric surface tapes to seal the aileron gaps as well as the "tailfeather"
gaps. The elevator and rudder gaps were previously not sealed, and this
change made a noticeable improvement in their effectiveness--especially in
raising the tail earlier during the takeoff run.
Note to Harvey:
************
Your airplane is a Grega GN-1 and I believe the aileron design is different
from that of the Pietenpol. Nevertheless, I would be inclined to seal the
gaps with a wide piece of plastic tape, making sure it doesn't restrict
aileron travel in any way.
When test flying a new airplane, it is a good idea to reduce the potential
for problems or nasty surprises. If you wish to experiment, do it later on
when everything else is going well. Don't take chances!
[Speaking of "chance", here is a Charles Lindbergh quote: "You can guard
against the high percentage of chance but not against chance itself."]
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
"Flitzer" ,
"Pietenpol" ,
"Corvair"
| Subject: | Off topic but very worthwhile |
MISS CHAMPION TO ARRIVE AT EAA FRIDAY
Miss Champion at the 1986 EAA Fly-In and Convention.
September 8, 2005 - An exceptionally rare aircraft originally slated to appear
at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2005 will arrive at EAA headquarters on Friday,
September 9, then fly for one last time late next week after it's reassembled.
Miss Champion, a Pitcairn PCA-2 autogiro built in 1931, is being transported
from Trenton-Robbinsville Airport, New Jersey, to Oshkosh where it will be donated
to the EAA AirVenture Museum collection.
Owner Stephen Pitcairn, son of the designer Harold Pitcairn, originally planned
to fly Miss Champion from New Jersey to Oshkosh for the 2005 convention,
then donate the historic rotorcraft. But a family situation occurred three weeks
before the convention and he had to cancel.
Instead, he and his five-person crew will travel to Oshkosh on Tuesday, September
13, spend 2-3 days putting Miss Champion back together at EAA's Weeks
Hangar, then make a short, ceremonial last flight to historic Pioneer Airport.
(The PCA-2's flight characteristics were once described as "hopping off the
ground like a giant grasshopper.")
The PCA-2 (NC 11609) will join two other aircraft Pitcairn donated to EAA:
A beautifully restored Pitcairn Mailwing and the world's only remaining example
of a PA-39 autogiro. They'll reside in the structure also donated by Pitcairn-the
Pitcairn Aviation Hangar.
"We feel fortunate and grateful that Steve considers our facilities an appropriate
final destination for this important aviation artifact," said EAA AirVenture
Museum Director Adam Smith.
Miss Champion, the first commercially licensed autogiro in the U.S., was
purchased new in 1931 by the Champion Spark Plug Co. She led that year's Ford
National Air Tour, and in September 1932 set an altitude record of 21,500 feet.
The aircraft "retired" to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, but was
later sold to a private New Jersey museum. Steve Pitcairn acquired it in the
early 1980s.
"Because of my association with the EAA, with the Pitcairn Hangar and the
Mailwing, as well as another autogiro, I decided to donate it to EAA," he said.
"It seemed to be the logical place for (Miss Champion) to go."
Harold Pitcairn built the first PCA-2 in 1930 through a licensing agreement
with Spanish aviation pioneer Juan de la Cierva, inventor of the autogiro.
PCA-2 stands for Pitcairn Cierva Autogiro, Model 2. A total of 20 were built.
Like an airplane, an autogiro's propeller provides thrust to pull the plane
through the air. Meanwhile, a rotor spins to provide lift similar to a helicopter.
Unlike a helicopter, though, the rotor blades are not powered; they simply
auto-rotate as the aircraft moves through the air. The PCA-2 is a big aircraft,
with a rotor diameter of 45 feet, and a 420-hp Wright R-975-E2 engine.
Maximum weight is 3,000 pounds.
Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro Miss Champion
a.. Wing Span: 30 feet
b.. Rotor Diameter: 45 feet
c.. Length: 23 feet, 1 inch
d.. Height: 13 feet
e.. Weight, Empty: 2,030 pounds
f.. Weight, Gross: 3,000 pounds
g.. Cruising Speed: 98 mph
h.. Max Speed: 118 mph
i.. Rate of Climb: 800 fpm
j.. Service Ceiling: 15,000 feet
k.. Power Plant: Wright R-975-E2 Whirlwind, 420 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
I went to a forum in Oshkosh and they highly recommended Gaffer's tape as a
better solution than duct tape, even though it costs a little more. From
its name I assumed it was used around boats...
Ted
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
> From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
>
>
> I guess your right Jim,I never thought of that.Let me talk to my other
> friends in the theatre business first and if I can't get a roll from
> them then I will try getting it from you.Thanks very much.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Markle
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
>
> As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the
> states available to you? :-)
>
> Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you?
>
> As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that
> if we can get it, YOU can get it (from us)!
>
> JM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
> This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
> at this time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
>
> Harvey wrote-
>
> >I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
> >gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
>
> Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on the
>
> KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
> This
> is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
> so it
> doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part that
> would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
> available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
> http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
For the ailerons, I used the plans type barn door hinges with steel hinge
pins, and bridged the gap with fabric, before the paint process. For the
empenage, I used Vi Kapler aluminum hinges, and bridged those gaps with fabric,
before paint process. These methods are light weight, simple to build, add
efficiency to the flight, and have been trouble free for 4 years. If I were to
do it
again, I would use the same methods.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
Actually it's used in the theatre and TV industry in order to tape down
cables.There is no sticky stuff in the middle.Notice that technical term
"sticky stuff"!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
I went to a forum in Oshkosh and they highly recommended Gaffer's tape
as a
better solution than duct tape, even though it costs a little more.
From
its name I assumed it was used around boats...
Ted
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
> From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
>
>
> I guess your right Jim,I never thought of that.Let me talk to my other
> friends in the theatre business first and if I can't get a roll from
> them then I will try getting it from you.Thanks very much.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Markle
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
>
> As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the
> states available to you? :-)
>
> Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you?
>
> As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that
> if we can get it, YOU can get it (from us)!
>
> JM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
> This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
> at this time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
>
>
> Harvey wrote-
>
> >I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
> >gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
>
> Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on
the
>
> KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
> This
> is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
> so it
> doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part
that
> would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
> available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
> http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | to gap or not to gap |
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
Good advice ;I do believe I will take it.Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to gap or not to gap
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
In 1963, I flew a friend's Pietenpol which had no gap seals and the
aileron
response was extremely sluggish. In fact, it was necessary to use some
rudder to bring up a low wing if a reasonable response was desired. He
had
not used the standard Pietenpol wingtip, but had simply terminated the
outboard end of the wing at a rib (eg. Mooney). At the time, I thought
this
might have been a factor, but it wasn't.
Later, he used tape as a gap seal and said the aileron response was much
improved but, since I never flew it again, I cannot attest to this.
When I first flew my Pietenpol in1970 there had been a lot of talk about
poor aileron response without gap seals, and I distinctly remembered my
experience with Floyd's airplane. So I used plastic tape from the
beginning,
reasoning that poor aileron response would be one thing less to deal
with
during initial test flights. Later, I experimented by removing the
sealing
tape, a bit at a time, until one aileron was completely unsealed. In
this
condition, the seal-less wing definitely tended to "fly low", and
aileron
response had been noticeably degraded. Needless to say, my Pietenpol has
had
aileron gap seals ever since and its aileron response with them is
excellent.
In 1985, I replaced all the fabric covering (the original Grade A cotton
had
deteriorated over a 15 year period) with polyester aircraft fabric and
used
fabric surface tapes to seal the aileron gaps as well as the
"tailfeather"
gaps. The elevator and rudder gaps were previously not sealed, and this
change made a noticeable improvement in their effectiveness--especially
in
raising the tail earlier during the takeoff run.
Note to Harvey:
************
Your airplane is a Grega GN-1 and I believe the aileron design is
different
from that of the Pietenpol. Nevertheless, I would be inclined to seal
the
gaps with a wide piece of plastic tape, making sure it doesn't restrict
aileron travel in any way.
When test flying a new airplane, it is a good idea to reduce the
potential
for problems or nasty surprises. If you wish to experiment, do it later
on
when everything else is going well. Don't take chances!
[Speaking of "chance", here is a Charles Lindbergh quote: "You can guard
against the high percentage of chance but not against chance itself."]
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
| From: | "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com> |
Chuck, and others who used the strap hinges,
On my project in progress, I bought 4" strap hinges, and cut off the
extra 1/2" of length, however there is a hole on the bend. Did you fill
the hole in the strap at the bend with weld (on mine, an existing hole
landed on the bend), or did you leave it untouched. Also, do you dato
out the small wood filler strip so the strip passes over the strap so
the fabric has a continuous straight edge to follow, or stop the filler
strip short of the hinge and let the fabric kind of tighten up against
the hinge=3F Thank you in advance.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:10 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
=09
=09
steel hinge pins, and bridged the gap with fabric, before the paint
process. For the empenage, I used Vi Kapler aluminum hinges, and
bridged those gaps with fabric, before paint process. These methods are
light weight, simple to build, add efficiency to the flight, and have
been trouble free for 4 years. If I were to do it again, I would use
the same methods.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged,
confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure
under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly
by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy.
Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view.
I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view.
I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
09/08/05
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - |
09/08/05
09/08/05
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
When I went to buy my N3 pup from the seller he insisted that I get time
in a tail dragger.I said I was flying a tail dragger and he asked what
that was.I said a Lazair and he said no I mean a real tail dragger.Like
a Champ.After some training in a Champ, with Samson out of Hawksberry, I
then knew what he ment.The pull you get from the engine revs makes you
get on those rudder peddles right away and if your not, then your headed
for the corn!After the Champ,the N3 Pup was a piece of cake because the
engine power was a lot less.The cause of this action is a thing called
gyroscopic progression from the prop.It's not very prevalent in a
trycicle situation.I thanked the seller very much for his advice and I
will pass this info on whenever needed because it sure helped me.Every
seller should make sure the buyer is aware of this problem.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point
of view. I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
Allan
I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may
feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a
temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few
landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail up
and increased controll in the full stall landing.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
>
> Allan,
>
> Yes, I am sure you can get it to work but is it needed?
>
> My Pietenpol is very responsive on elevator and rudder with the Vi Kapler
> hinges.
> No gap seals.
>
> I do have the piano hinges on the Ailerons, only because it is easier to
> make.
> Some claim better aileron response but I can not confirm or deny that,
> never flew the other type.
> Good response on Aileron though.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I want to try this, Dick. My elevators feel responsive, but I do notice
that it is much slower to raise the tail on takeoff than any other plane
I've flown, including my old Cessna 140 which had a pretty heavy tail
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
Allan
I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may
feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a
temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few
landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail
up
and increased controll in the full stall landing.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1/Corvair value |
what might one expect to get if they were selling an airframe/engine project exactly
like mine?
95% complete
WW corvair conversion (with all the goodies and polished aluminum components)
all instrumentation (except radio and xpdr, included Grand Rapids EIS2000 engine
monitor)
Grove wheels/brakes, custom 14 gal aluminum tank, all lasercut fittings, etc
I guess what I'm asking is what is my project worth.....
am I selling? the answer is truthfully maybe. I have been involved in a new
business venture over the past 4 months that looks like it is going to really
take-off but I need some capital to take it to that level.
I would REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to sell but sometimes these things happen.
Right now I'm just in the investigative stage but it may lead to me selling...
it may not. I just dunno now.... It would really just depend on what I
could get for my project.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
In a message dated 9/9/2005 7:25:58 AM Central Standard Time, jegan(at)kcc.com
writes:
Chuck, and others who used the strap hinges,
On my project in progress, I bought 4" strap hinges, and cut off the extra
1/2" of length, however there is a hole on the bend. Did you fill the hole in
the strap at the bend with weld (on mine, an existing hole landed on the bend),
or did you leave it untouched. Also, do you dato out the small wood filler
strip so the strip passes over the strap so the fabric has a continuous
straight edge to follow, or stop the filler strip short of the hinge and let the
fabric kind of tighten up against the hinge? Thank you in advance.
Jegan,
I didn't cut anything off the hinges, or bend the hinge at the location of a
hole. We probably have hinges from different manufactures. I wouldn't fill
the hole with weld, unless you sandblast and paint, for corrosion protection.
Or go find a different set of hinges with the holes in different locations.
I just butt up the 1/4" filler strip up to each side of the hinges, and let
the fabric tighten up against the hinge.
The fabric that bridges the gap is also just butted up to the hinge. This
also helps to keep the hinge pin from coming out, if the cotterpin would happen
to fall out, and allows the hinge to be visible for inspection. The original
aluminum hinge pin that comes in the hinge, was replaced with AN hardware
screw, with a shank length long enough to go entirely through the hinge, so that
no threads are in contact with the hinge. Cut the threads off the AN screw,
and drill a hole for the cotter pin. Always install a small washer before the
cotter pin, so you must accomodate the thickness of the washer, while you're
measuring for the location of the drilled hole in the hinge pin. Install the
completed and covered ailerons, install hinge pins and cotterpins, then install
the fabric that bridges the gap - one 3" wide layer on top, and one 3" wide
layer on bottom for the gap filler strip of fabric.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> |
| Subject: | Checking in - Superflight - AFS |
Greeting all,
I'm just poking my head up on the list radar. I have been slowly working on our
Piet project and was searching through the archives tonight and noticed that
a few people over the last few years were looking for my email address or UV testing
info.
Just to get it in the archives again
email - kirkh@unique-software.com
kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org
UV testing URL http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5
2 quick questions- is Superflight still around for purchasing Dacron? Also, has
anyone on the list used the AFS (aircraft Finishing System) for covering?
Hope to make Brodhead next year (at least by car).
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | what do you make of this?? |
he is calling it a Piet???
it is somewhere near me, perhaps I will need to go see it???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Peitenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQitemZ4574517599QQcategoryZ26428QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Michael Silvius
Scarborough, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andimaxd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
In a message dated 9/11/2005 9:39:32 A.M. Central Standard Time,
M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
he is calling it a Piet???
That's just "Sad"...
Max
Arlington, TX
NX101XW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
I can't help but wonder WHY the fisherman would take the time to move his "sweet"
project that far north!!!
Well, whatever, those DO look like Home Depot turnbuckles.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
In a message dated 9/11/2005 9:39:32 A.M. Central Standard Time, M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net
writes:
he is calling it a Piet???
That's just "Sad"...
Max
Arlington, TX
NX101XW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking in - Superflight - AFS |
Superflite is still around. They are now in Collinsville, ILL. Linda, the
lady who used to work for Wicks and was so knowledgable about aircraft parts
now works for them.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Checking in - Superflight - AFS
>
> Greeting all,
>
> I'm just poking my head up on the list radar. I have been slowly working
on our Piet project and was searching through the archives tonight and
noticed that a few people over the last few years were looking for my email
address or UV testing info.
>
> Just to get it in the archives again
>
> email - kirkh@unique-software.com
> kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org
> UV testing URL http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5
>
> 2 quick questions- is Superflight still around for purchasing Dacron?
Also, has anyone on the list used the AFS (aircraft Finishing System) for
covering?
>
> Hope to make Brodhead next year (at least by car).
> Thanks
>
> Kirk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't mind tellin' ya'... |
I really need to get over my notion that Mama Nature
wants to upset me in my (Howard Henderson) Pietenpol.
She is so light. I need to meet this challenge head
on. In smooth air, she is virtually hands off. I think
I can feel every variation in terrain below me, as I
have been flying at no higher than 1,000 - 1,200' AGL.
Yesterday, I flew her 6 nm from where I keep her, to
an aviation event at the Springfield Downtown Airport,
held by the Air and Military Museum of the Ozarks.
First hard surface landing.....no problem. Had the
Piet parked nexted to my 195 (picture enclosed).
I chose to leave the Piet at that field due to gusty
winds in the afternoon. This morning, I took off in
somewhat lighter but still gusty winds, and headed off
to my field a whopping 6 nm away. Climbed up to 800'
AGL give or take. Had to fly her the whole way. The
landing was direct crosswing but not so bad due the
fact that the trees on both sides shelter me from
surfance winds when I get in their wind shadow. I know
that wood gear is stout as she fell from the sky a bit
higher than I normally would like.
Just blathering here. Needless to say...she is light.
A bird fart has to be reckoned with by control inputs.
I trust I will eventually get used to this and
everything will be automatic, like landing the 195
which used to caused considerable pucker factor.
(Also, she won Best Homebuilt yesterday and garnered
much interest).
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
HEY!!!! He has a picture of MY Piet in his ad!!!!!
--- MICHAEL SILVIUS
wrote:
> SILVIUS"
>
> he is calling it a Piet???
>
> it is somewhere near me, perhaps I will need to go
> see it???
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Peitenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQitemZ4574517599QQcategoryZ26428QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Michael Silvius
> Scarborough, Maine
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/shelter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't mind tellin' ya'... |
Really nice picture!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don't mind tellin' ya'...
>
>
> I really need to get over my notion that Mama Nature
> wants to upset me in my (Howard Henderson) Pietenpol.
> She is so light. I need to meet this challenge head
> on. In smooth air, she is virtually hands off. I think
> I can feel every variation in terrain below me, as I
> have been flying at no higher than 1,000 - 1,200' AGL.
>
>
> Yesterday, I flew her 6 nm from where I keep her, to
> an aviation event at the Springfield Downtown Airport,
> held by the Air and Military Museum of the Ozarks.
> First hard surface landing.....no problem. Had the
> Piet parked nexted to my 195 (picture enclosed).
>
> I chose to leave the Piet at that field due to gusty
> winds in the afternoon. This morning, I took off in
> somewhat lighter but still gusty winds, and headed off
> to my field a whopping 6 nm away. Climbed up to 800'
> AGL give or take. Had to fly her the whole way. The
> landing was direct crosswing but not so bad due the
> fact that the trees on both sides shelter me from
> surfance winds when I get in their wind shadow. I know
> that wood gear is stout as she fell from the sky a bit
> higher than I normally would like.
>
> Just blathering here. Needless to say...she is light.
> A bird fart has to be reckoned with by control inputs.
> I trust I will eventually get used to this and
> everything will be automatic, like landing the 195
> which used to caused considerable pucker factor.
> (Also, she won Best Homebuilt yesterday and garnered
> much interest).
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ExperCraft build log |
| From: | "Robert Riggen" <rob(at)riggen.org> |
Fellow builders,
This is an invite to those who need a method for creating a project log
and Web site.
Even if you've already started your log using another system this one is
worth a look.
ExperCraft Simple Log is free for builders and is a great way to create a
comprehensive log and Web site. It's very easy to use.
http://www.expercraft.com
Enjoy!
Rob
--
Rob Riggen
building a Vans RV7
http://websites.expercraft.com/rriggen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp> |
| Subject: | Vi Kapler's Elevator/Rudder hinges |
G'day Pieters,
Info for anybody who is wondering about hinges.
I jsut spoke with Vi Kapler re the cast aluminiun hinges that he makes for
the Piet.
He said that he still has them and that they are US$50 ( postage
included ), for a set of 9 including pins.
He said they still need a little cleaning up with a file.
His address is as follows:
Vitalis Kapler
1033 Forest Hills Dr. SW
Rochester, MN 55902
You can call him on; 507-288-3322
Evenings Central Standard Time
He sounds like an nice guy . I will send off a money order today for a set
of his hinges, somewhat easier than making the steel ones as shown on the
plans.
Happy Building / Flying !
Mark S
Japan.....nice weather for a change !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Hi Jim et all:
First of all let me apologize to the list for not properly introducing my
self first. I just came across the e-bay listing for that "thing" and
thought I ought to pass it along at least for the amusement of the
participants here. I have been lurking and receiving the digest form of the
list for some time now and just switched over to the real time list so I can
receive the photos I have been missing up to now.
At any rate, yes I have more than a passing interest in the Pietenpol. I
have started on a GN1, if you can call getting the fuselage sides jig built.
Yes, I know to purist the GN1 is not the real thing but I have had the plans
for I think something like 10 yrs. I came across DJ Vegh's site and it
served as inspiration to do what ever I have to do, to get started on my
own. So I have nothing much to show yet. I had originally intended to build
a Jodel DR1050 ( http://community.webshots.com/album/147451245dhnmgI ) But
for now I have chosen something a bit more basic and generally affordable. I
have a 110 hp Corvair engine pictured in the above link w/ all the right
numbers and specs. I also just scored from e-bay, a N.O.S. crank for the
Corvair as modified by Mr. Pietenpol himself w/ the hub and safety shaft.
Can you believe only $125.00? .
I live just outside of Portland where I make a living as a carpenter. Mostly
finish work, cabinetry and stair work. But sometimes we gota-do what we
gota-do to put food on the table and pay the note on the house. And it is a
new one to us, and has a fantastic 2 story gambrel roofed garage that houses
my wood shop upstairs and is a suitable location to build my dream. Though I
have been living here in the US for nearly 25 yrs I am a native of Venezuela
and thus Spanish is my mother tongue.
So for now I will most likely just sit and listen, and learn as much as I
can form the folks on the list, until I have a question of some sort.
Kind regards:
Michael Silvius in Scarborough, Maine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
> I HOPE I didn't miss the opportunity to see a Piet/Piet Project (your's)
> while I was in Scarborough a few weeks ago?!?!?!
> I'm assuming that if you're on this list you have SOME interest in
> Piets.....or maybe not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Michael, welcome and good luck with your project.
--- MICHAEL SILVIUS
wrote:
> SILVIUS"
>
> Hi Jim et all:
> First of all let me apologize to the list for not
> properly introducing my
> self first. I just came across the e-bay listing for
> that "thing" and
> thought I ought to pass it along at least for the
> amusement of the
> participants here. I have been lurking and receiving
> the digest form of the
> list for some time now and just switched over to the
> real time list so I can
> receive the photos I have been missing up to now.
>
> At any rate, yes I have more than a passing interest
> in the Pietenpol. I
> have started on a GN1, if you can call getting the
> fuselage sides jig built.
> Yes, I know to purist the GN1 is not the real thing
> but I have had the plans
> for I think something like 10 yrs. I came across DJ
> Vegh's site and it
> served as inspiration to do what ever I have to do,
> to get started on my
> own. So I have nothing much to show yet. I had
> originally intended to build
> a Jodel DR1050 (
> http://community.webshots.com/album/147451245dhnmgI
> ) But
> for now I have chosen something a bit more basic and
> generally affordable. I
> have a 110 hp Corvair engine pictured in the above
> link w/ all the right
> numbers and specs. I also just scored from e-bay, a
> N.O.S. crank for the
> Corvair as modified by Mr. Pietenpol himself w/ the
> hub and safety shaft.
> Can you believe only $125.00? .
>
> I live just outside of Portland where I make a
> living as a carpenter. Mostly
> finish work, cabinetry and stair work. But sometimes
> we gota-do what we
> gota-do to put food on the table and pay the note on
> the house. And it is a
> new one to us, and has a fantastic 2 story gambrel
> roofed garage that houses
> my wood shop upstairs and is a suitable location to
> build my dream. Though I
> have been living here in the US for nearly 25 yrs I
> am a native of Venezuela
> and thus Spanish is my mother tongue.
>
> So for now I will most likely just sit and listen,
> and learn as much as I
> can form the folks on the list, until I have a
> question of some sort.
>
> Kind regards:
>
> Michael Silvius in Scarborough, Maine.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of
> this??
>
>
> > I HOPE I didn't miss the opportunity to see a
> Piet/Piet Project (your's)
> > while I was in Scarborough a few weeks ago?!?!?!
>
>
> > I'm assuming that if you're on this list you have
> SOME interest in
> > Piets.....or maybe not.
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking in - Superflight - AFS |
Thanks for the links to Latex paint info Kirk. Bottom line, it looks like a
few coats of Latex can provide UV protection similiar to a full PolyFiber
job. I plan on using it.
On 9/10/05, Kirk Huizenga wrote:
>
> Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
>
> Greeting all,
>
> I'm just poking my head up on the list radar. I have been slowly working
> on our Piet project and was searching through the archives tonight and
> noticed that a few people over the last few years were looking for my email
> address or UV testing info.
>
> Just to get it in the archives again
>
> email - kirkh@unique-software.com
> kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org
> UV testing URL http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID5
>
> 2 quick questions- is Superflight still around for purchasing Dacron?
> Also, has anyone on the list used the AFS (aircraft Finishing System) for
> covering?
>
> Hope to make Brodhead next year (at least by car).
> Thanks
>
> Kirk
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Good decision Michael, most everyone goes through that phase when deciding
what plane to build, (Pitts, 3/4 scale P-51, Falco, etc). I know I did. Once
you get into building your Piet you will be very glad that you did not take
on anything more complex as your first project. You won't believe how much
work and money is involved in building even something as "simple" and
"inexpensive" as a Piet.
Rick H
On 9/11/05, MICHAEL SILVIUS wrote:
>
> M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Jim et all:
> First of all let me apologize to the list for not properly introducing my
> self first. I just came across the e-bay listing for that "thing" and
> thought I ought to pass it along at least for the amusement of the
> participants here. I have been lurking and receiving the digest form of
> the
> list for some time now and just switched over to the real time list so I
> can
> receive the photos I have been missing up to now.
>
> At any rate, yes I have more than a passing interest in the Pietenpol. I
> have started on a GN1, if you can call getting the fuselage sides jig
> built.
> Yes, I know to purist the GN1 is not the real thing but I have had the
> plans
> for I think something like 10 yrs. I came across DJ Vegh's site and it
> served as inspiration to do what ever I have to do, to get started on my
> own. So I have nothing much to show yet. I had originally intended to
> build
> a Jodel DR1050 ( http://community.webshots.com/album/147451245dhnmgI ) But
> for now I have chosen something a bit more basic and generally affordable.
> I
> have a 110 hp Corvair engine pictured in the above link w/ all the right
> numbers and specs. I also just scored from e-bay, a N.O.S. crank for the
> Corvair as modified by Mr. Pietenpol himself w/ the hub and safety shaft.
> Can you believe only $125.00? .
>
> I live just outside of Portland where I make a living as a carpenter.
> Mostly
> finish work, cabinetry and stair work. But sometimes we gota-do what we
> gota-do to put food on the table and pay the note on the house. And it is
> a
> new one to us, and has a fantastic 2 story gambrel roofed garage that
> houses
> my wood shop upstairs and is a suitable location to build my dream. Though
> I
> have been living here in the US for nearly 25 yrs I am a native of
> Venezuela
> and thus Spanish is my mother tongue.
>
> So for now I will most likely just sit and listen, and learn as much as I
> can form the folks on the list, until I have a question of some sort.
>
> Kind regards:
>
> Michael Silvius in Scarborough, Maine.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
>
>
> > I HOPE I didn't miss the opportunity to see a Piet/Piet Project (your's)
> > while I was in Scarborough a few weeks ago?!?!?!
>
>
> > I'm assuming that if you're on this list you have SOME interest in
> > Piets.....or maybe not.
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Don't mind tellin' ya'... |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
LOL!!
"...A bird fart has to be reckoned with by control inputs..."
Jack
Waiting for Ophelia to add to the breezy weather we've been having in
North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | what do you make of this?? |
That plane is an Alco Sportplane, not a Pietenpol. Also appeared in the F&GM.
Saludos
Santiago Morete
---------------------------------
1GB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam
Abr tu cuenta aqu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Checking in - Superflight - AFS |
Rick,
Two or three coats of latex are ok (depends in light or darker colors) then, if
you want a gloss look, just add a coat of clear urethane paint with a little
amount of (we name it here plastifier) they add this to the paint when painting
plastic fenders and car parts (like some Cadillacs), this prevents the urethane
paint from "breaking" with the normal movement of the dacron...
I use this system and has worked now for 6 years so forth in my oldest proyect.
The pilot that advised me, has already 8 years with his finish in perfect
shape.
We fly almost all week ends, and holidays, so no hangar airplane here.(only during
the week days).
Saludos
Gary Gower
Rick Holland wrote:
Thanks for the links to Latex paint info Kirk. Bottom line, it looks like a few
coats of Latex can provide UV protection similiar to a full PolyFiber job. I
plan on using it.
Greeting all,
I'm just poking my head up on the list radar. I have been slowly working on our
Piet project and was searching through the archives tonight and noticed that
a few people over the last few years were looking for my email address or UV testing
info.
Just to get it in the archives again
email - kirkh@unique-software.com
kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org
UV testing URL http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5
2 quick questions- is Superflight still around for purchasing Dacron? Also, has
anyone on the list used the AFS (aircraft Finishing System) for covering?
Hope to make Brodhead next year (at least by car).
==================================================Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
h more: ===========================================================
--
Rick Holland
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bouncing around in a Piet |
Hey Larry,
Bouncy Piet rides are pretty much the norm, here in the Land of Oz (central
Kansas)...except for as Mike C said, just before sunset. The past two Sunday
mornings, I've been flying to Strother Field, about 30 miles to the South, for
Aerobatic instruction in a Decathelon. Both days the winds were 180=BA @ 20 to
30, which was pretty much right down the runway. Mix in the thermals, and
you stir the stick in the Piet almost constantly, and just forget about keeping
accurate heading and altitude. However, I prefer to just ride out the small
upsets, and let 'er just right herself...till the Big thermal comes along,
usually over a brown dirt field. A couple of times I was determined to see=20just
how much the big one would throw her off without a reply on the stick, and it
raised the wing about 30=BA, and turned me 90=BA off heading !! Bouncing around
in
a Piet is just another one of the fun and challenging aspects of being at one
with her. The landing and roll outs in the strong headwinds, were probably
the shortest I've ever done. I truly Love to fly my plane !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Flying the Decathelon through loops, spins, slow rolls, and hanging
upside-down on the harness, sure is a different a different animal than I'm=20used
to !!
What a Hoot !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet for sale... |
Jim,
Could you send any pics of the innards to me (offlist)?
Alan Lyscars
Portland, Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale...
In the Lancaster, TX (just South of Dallas) area....a Corvair powered Air Camper.
If anyone is interested, I have a lot of pictures of the plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Thanks Santiago:
I passed it on to the man with the listing on e-bay
F&GM???? not sure what it stands for
Gracias:
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
That plane is an Alco Sportplane, not a Pietenpol. Also appeared in the F&GM.
Saludos
Santiago Morete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Michael,
Stands for Flying and glider manual, there are 5 of them 1929 to 1933 published
by EAA. They are copies of Modern Mechanics' Flying Manual published in those
years. The Pietenpol aircamper is in the 1932 edition. You can get them from
EAA, worth reading.
Skip
F&GM???? not sure what it stands for
Gracias:
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Means the EAA reprint of the "Flying & Glider Manuals" from 1928 to 1932, where
the Piet and the Scout where futured... With other great airplanes as well,
a must literature to have for any Homebuilder, is history...,
Saludos
Gary Gower
MICHAEL SILVIUS wrote:
Thanks Santiago:
I passed it on to the man with the listing on e-bay
F&GM???? not sure what it stands for
Gracias:
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
That plane is an Alco Sportplane, not a Pietenpol. Also appeared in the F&GM.
Saludos
Santiago Morete
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <sbobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Actually, Skip, they were published by Fawcett publications. You really need
to see some originals as they have a lot more stuff in them.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Cinda Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
Michael,
Stands for Flying and glider manual, there are 5 of them 1929 to 1933 published
by EAA. They are copies of Modern Mechanics' Flying Manual published in those
years. The Pietenpol aircamper is in the 1932 edition. You can get them from
EAA, worth reading.
Skip
F&GM???? not sure what it stands for
Gracias:
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Don't mind tellin' ya' |
Larry,
I have over 400 hours in the Piet, 1600 hours in taildraggers and teach
tailwheel transition. Every landing is different in a Piet. Nothing ever
gets automatic. When I flew to Brodhead in 99 it was difficult to make two
good landings in row. Each landing was different because the color of the
runways and white numbers and the heat was different at each one. Each one
felt like you were riding a bronco. You fly this plane to the tiedown on
windy days.
Ted
P.S. the bird farts are really aggravating when the bird is ahead of you
soaring along for a while without moving its wings.
> From: Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don't mind tellin' ya'...
>
> Just blathering here. Needless to say...she is light.
> A bird fart has to be reckoned with by control inputs.
> I trust I will eventually get used to this and
> everything will be automatic, like landing the 195
> which used to caused considerable pucker factor.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't mind tellin' ya' |
>
> Ted
>
> P.S. the bird farts are really aggravating when the bird is ahead of you
> soaring along for a while without moving its wings.
And when he's behind you he ends up running into your trailing edge....you
just can't win.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't mind tellin' ya' |
<002b01c5b80d$68f37b00$f0384e0c@TedB>
<003501c5b812$a0c7fbf0$6501a8c0@demoprimus>
DUCK!!
Here comes another flock!
Clif
>
>
>> Ted
>>
>> P.S. the bird farts are really aggravating when the bird is ahead of you
>> soaring along for a while without moving its wings.
>
> And when he's behind you he ends up running into your trailing edge....you
> just can't win.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what do you make of this?? |
Garry:
Ah yes, It came to me in a haze between dreams at about 2 am this morning.
As you see, I am not always the brightest bulb on the tree, It just takes me a
while to get there.
LOL.
thanks:
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what do you make of this??
Means the EAA reprint of the "Flying & Glider Manuals" from 1928 to 1932, where
the Piet and the Scout where futured... With other great airplanes as
well, a must literature to have for any Homebuilder, is history...,
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
40's
| Subject: | Re: popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar in the |
40's
Just be glad no one's thought of running wires up under
balloons ala WW 1.
Around here the geese have it so good they hardly ever
leave the ground.
In Victoria, in the 60's, they told us to watch out for two
things. One was flying spider season. Those little suckers
would climb to the top of trees, run out a long filament
and let go, sailing away over the countryside. Just as bad
as ice on the wings.
The other was hunters. They weren't allowed on the property
but nothing stopped them from lining up around the fences
and blasting away every time some poor sod took off and
scared up a blimp of birds.
Nowadays the big problem is Turkey Vultures. They finally
figured out that Southern Vancouver Island is a very safe
place to raise young and Pat Bay airport, aka Victoria
International, is thermal city. Fortunately they're almost as
big as airplanes thus fairly visible in the circuit.
Oh, and you guys flying behind the geese, why don't you
just take your place at either end of the V? :-) :-) and :-)
Clif
> Actually the geese and birds aren't too dangerous------but the bumper crop
> of cell phone towers sure is some days. > Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
in the 40's
| Subject: | popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar |
in the 40's
in the 40's
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
Is the fire in Burns Bog posing any problems for you or is it just
moving all the smoke inland.My Son ,who lives in Burnaby ,told me about
the fire and last night on the news they said it had increased to 9
times it's size the day before.They can't seem to control it or put it
out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar
in the 40's
Just be glad no one's thought of running wires up under
balloons ala WW 1.
Around here the geese have it so good they hardly ever
leave the ground.
In Victoria, in the 60's, they told us to watch out for two
things. One was flying spider season. Those little suckers
would climb to the top of trees, run out a long filament
and let go, sailing away over the countryside. Just as bad
as ice on the wings.
The other was hunters. They weren't allowed on the property
but nothing stopped them from lining up around the fences
and blasting away every time some poor sod took off and
scared up a blimp of birds.
Nowadays the big problem is Turkey Vultures. They finally
figured out that Southern Vancouver Island is a very safe
place to raise young and Pat Bay airport, aka Victoria
International, is thermal city. Fortunately they're almost as
big as airplanes thus fairly visible in the circuit.
Oh, and you guys flying behind the geese, why don't you
just take your place at either end of the V? :-) :-) and :-)
Clif
> Actually the geese and birds aren't too dangerous------but the bumper
crop
> of cell phone towers sure is some days. > Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRichmo9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian Geese |
im thinking about an aluminum piet. tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
40's
| Subject: | Re: popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar in the |
40's
<984E798CE7C4D4419A6D99DF385597A8961577(at)toroondc511.bell.corp.bce.ca>
Hi Harvey, Burns Bog is largely peat moss and in earlier
years was "mined" to provide fuel for cooking and heating.
Now a large part has been set aside as an ecological reserve.
The problem with peat is that fire can burn underground and
then surface in a new location. There has been considerable
effort with helicopter and AC drop including the Mars. It
looks like they have pretty good control of the situation.
The present air quality is rated "fair" and we see that at times
anyway as we are in a mountain surrounded basin similar to
LA. The forecast is for some showers over the next couple
of weeks but the mountainous terrain precludes any accuracy
to forecasting so who knows.
Unless your son has allergies or asthma I wouldn't worry too
much. Even if it continued to burn it's only so big and would
eventually reach it's boundaries. It's not going to burn down
Van or Burnaby. The big loss is in the rare and endangered
flora and fauna. There is a lot of that in the bog.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/local/state/story/6960113p-6860105c.html
This is like when the SARS " epidemic" hit Toronto. I called my
daughter there, who has life threatening asthma, to see how it
was going to affect her only to have her say " What epidemic?"
After all, we all know what the newspeople do to sell papers.
Clif
>
> Is the fire in Burns Bog posing any problems for you or is it just
> moving all the smoke inland.My Son ,who lives in Burnaby ,told me about
> the fire and last night on the news they said it had increased to 9
> times it's size the day before.They can't seem to control it or put it
> out.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
in the 40's
| Subject: | popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar |
in the 40's
in the 40's
| From: | harvey.rule(at)bell.ca |
I was thinking more along the lines of flying problems but I can see
from your reply that this is not going to be a problem.Thanks for the
info.I never did figure that the cities were in any trouble.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: popsicle sticks used to laminate Piet spar
in the 40's
Hi Harvey, Burns Bog is largely peat moss and in earlier
years was "mined" to provide fuel for cooking and heating.
Now a large part has been set aside as an ecological reserve.
The problem with peat is that fire can burn underground and
then surface in a new location. There has been considerable
effort with helicopter and AC drop including the Mars. It
looks like they have pretty good control of the situation.
The present air quality is rated "fair" and we see that at times
anyway as we are in a mountain surrounded basin similar to
LA. The forecast is for some showers over the next couple
of weeks but the mountainous terrain precludes any accuracy
to forecasting so who knows.
Unless your son has allergies or asthma I wouldn't worry too
much. Even if it continued to burn it's only so big and would
eventually reach it's boundaries. It's not going to burn down
Van or Burnaby. The big loss is in the rare and endangered
flora and fauna. There is a lot of that in the bog.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/local/state/story/6960113p-6860105c.ht
ml
This is like when the SARS " epidemic" hit Toronto. I called my
daughter there, who has life threatening asthma, to see how it
was going to affect her only to have her say " What epidemic?"
After all, we all know what the newspeople do to sell papers.
Clif
>
> Is the fire in Burns Bog posing any problems for you or is it just
> moving all the smoke inland.My Son ,who lives in Burnaby ,told me
about
> the fire and last night on the news they said it had increased to 9
> times it's size the day before.They can't seem to control it or put it
> out.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey guys,
Not new to the list, but have not posted in a long time. I am building
the tail out of DF choice select. The reason for this is because that is
what was available at LOWES. The grain all looked good so I started cutting
pieces. Now I know that DF is heavier than spruce and stronger at the same
time, but is all DF going to weigh about the same if the moisture content is
the same. I am wondering if my boards are heavier than usual. I picked up
some Western Red Cedar and it felt like a feather compared to the DF. I
also know that WRC is not as strong as spruce. Anyway I got some T-88 in
the mail today and my gusset plywood is in the mail, so I should be able to
start assembly the tail soon if my wood does not resemble a boat anchor.
Thanks in advance
Nick H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment that if
it was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.
If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter and measure
its content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait for it to
air dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the process before using
it in your project.Working with wood that has not at least air dried to
12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks after your plane is put together.
From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!
Kind regards,Mike
Ps-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
I think that it was Kiln dried. These were boards that would be used for
finish work. I will double check though. Where would you get a moisture
meter? How much? How does it work?
Nick
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment that
if it was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.
If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter
and measure its content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait
for it to air dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the
process before using it in your project.Working with wood that has not at
least air dried to 12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks
after your plane is put together.
From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!
Kind regards,Mike
Ps-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!
________________________________________________________________________________
Nick,
Many times your local "woodworking club" will have one to loan out to
members.
Jack T
Des Moines
________________________________
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Harris
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
I think that it was Kiln dried. These were boards that would be used
for finish work. I will double check though. Where would you get a
moisture meter? How much? How does it work?
Nick
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
If they were finished boards ie: dimentioned 3/4 in" by whatever they were more
than likley kiln dried,and I would not give it any more thought.
As to the moisture meter I purchased mine through Lee Valley Woodworking tools
for around $80 but I am a cabinet maker and buy all my lumber in the rough and
plane and joint it myself so I bring my meter with me when I go to purchase my
lumber and check its moisture content and if it is to high I can dicker price
as I will have to take it home and sticker it(stack it with stickers in between
the layers and let it dry to workable wood)which is time consuming.
Home Depot and places like Lowes charge astronomical prices for wood that is kiln
dried and dimentioned as compared to the way I buy it from sawyers.I buy local
Red oak from a sawyer for $3.25 a board foot(1" thick X 12" wide X1 foot)At
home Depot I would pay the equivelent of $12.00 a board foot.Buying in the rough
has paid for my tools many times over,but I work with it all the time.Its
why I decided to build a Piet!
Good luck,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Good discussion on Doug Fir and moisture.
Just to set your mind at ease.... My entire airplane is built of DF
pulled from a lumber supplier as Mike described. My empty weight is
626lbs with an A-65. Not a stick of spruce in the entire airplane....
Steve e
Flying 8 years now. Latex paint , Douglas Fir, Aerolite glue, AN
hardware. 320 hrs.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
If they were finished boards ie: dimentioned 3/4 in" by whatever they
were more than likley kiln dried,and I would not give it any more
thought.
As to the moisture meter I purchased mine through Lee Valley Woodworking
tools for around $80 but I am a cabinet maker and buy all my lumber in
the rough and plane and joint it myself so I bring my meter with me when
I go to purchase my lumber and check its moisture content and if it is
to high I can dicker price as I will have to take it home and sticker
it(stack it with stickers in between the layers and let it dry to
workable wood)which is time consuming.
Home Depot and places like Lowes charge astronomical prices for wood
that is kiln dried and dimentioned as compared to the way I buy it from
sawyers.I buy local Red oak from a sawyer for $3.25 a board foot(1"
thick X 12" wide X1 foot)At home Depot I would pay the equivelent of
$12.00 a board foot.Buying in the rough has paid for my tools many times
over,but I work with it all the time.Its why I decided to build a Piet!
Good luck,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight... |
Steve,
Congratulations! That is the real Pietenpol philosophy... A cheap and safe
every man airplane. Please all: Beware, No fisherman quality here :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Steve Eldredge wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}
Good discussion on Doug Fir and moisture.
Just to set your mind at ease. My entire airplane is built of DF pulled from a
lumber supplier as Mike described. My empty weight is 626lbs with an A-65.
Not a stick of spruce in the entire airplane.
Steve e
Flying 8 years now. Latex paint , Douglas Fir, Aerolite glue, AN hardware. 320
hrs.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
If they were finished boards ie: dimentioned 3/4 in" by whatever they were more
than likley kiln dried,and I would not give it any more thought.
As to the moisture meter I purchased mine through Lee Valley Woodworking tools
for around $80 but I am a cabinet maker and buy all my lumber in the rough and
plane and joint it myself so I bring my meter with me when I go to purchase my
lumber and check its moisture content and if it is to high I can dicker price
as I will have to take it home and sticker it(stack it with stickers in between
the layers and let it dry to workable wood)which is time consuming.
Home Depot and places like Lowes charge astronomical prices for wood that is kiln
dried and dimentioned as compared to the way I buy it from sawyers.I buy local
Red oak from a sawyer for $3.25 a board foot(1" thick X 12" wide X1 foot)At
home Depot I would pay the equivelent of $12.00 a board foot.Buying in the rough
has paid for my tools many times over,but I work with it all the time.Its
why I decided to build a Piet!
Good luck,Mike
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
A by weight comparison of oven dried :
Douglas Fir -31 lbs/sq.ft.
Sitka Spruce -28 lbs/sq.ft.
Western Red Cedar -22 lbs/sq.ft.
Would be nice to be able to build it entirely from the WRC,probably come in under
600 lbs easy!
Regards,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Re :DF weight |
I forget, what are the relative strength characteristics? Would WRC
be suitable for spars?
>A by weight comparison of oven dried :
> Douglas Fir -31 lbs/sq.ft.
>
> Sitka Spruce -28 lbs/sq.ft.
>
> Western Red Cedar -22 lbs/sq.ft.
>Would be nice to be able to build it entirely from the WRC,probably
>come in under 600 lbs easy!
>Regards,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re :DF weight |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re :DF weightI think the numbers you are referencing below
are cubic feet, not square feet of the dif types of wood. Most kiln dried types
of soft woods are in that range of densities per cubic foot. Think the reason
spruce is a preferred wood has to do with the length and alignment of the
individual fibers, chk out Aircraft Spruce's technical discussion the subject.
I used Home Depot clear 2" x 1/4" strips of window casement molding materials
for making the longerons on the Cozy, cheap, knothole free, and strong. Laminated
together to make curved 3" by 2" by 10', beams that support the main stresses
on the aircraft other than the composite spars.
For further research on materials and regarding dif types of acceptable wood materials,
and reasons why they're acceptable, for airplanes chk out the FAA's
Advisory Circulars AC 43.13-1B and 2A "Acceptable methods, techniques and practices-
Aircraft Inspection and Repair".
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re :DF weight
I forget, what are the relative strength characteristics? Would WRC be suitable
for spars?
A by weight comparison of oven dried :
Douglas Fir -31 lbs/sq.ft.
Sitka Spruce -28 lbs/sq.ft.
Western Red Cedar -22 lbs/sq.ft.
Would be nice to be able to build it entirely from the WRC,probably come in
under 600 lbs easy!
Regards,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re :DF weight |
<a0602043fbf4fcafb39d3@[10.0.1.16]>
From building canoes I would guess it to not be all that great. WRC is
pretty brittle.
Not at all what you want in a spar. The handy FAA manual lists the acceptable
substitutions. Seems like Spruce, DF, Port Oxford Cedar, and one of the
hemlocks
are on the list. I don't have a copy handy.
Dave
At 09:06 PM 9/15/2005, you wrote:
>I forget, what are the relative strength characteristics? Would WRC be
>suitable for spars?
>
>>A by weight comparison of oven dried :
>> Douglas Fir -31 lbs/sq.ft.
>>
>> Sitka Spruce -28 lbs/sq.ft.
>>
>> Western Red Cedar -22 lbs/sq.ft.
>>Would be nice to be able to build it entirely from the WRC,probably come
>>in under 600 lbs easy!
>>Regards,Mike
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
These are the numbers I dug up,as to western red cedars suitability for spars I
am not knowledgable enough to comment.I will leave that to the experts.
Stress in psi
Bending Compression
Horizontal Shear Perpendicular to grain Parrallel to
grain
WRC 1150 425
1000
DF 1668 625
1700
SP 1495 335
1200
These numbers are dry weight lumber.Hope this answers your question,maybe someone
else can fill in the blanks.
Regards,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | corvair - prop recommendation and machine work |
Two questions for the group.
I'm building the long fuse with a corvair motor - typical William Wynne conversion
with front starter and alternator. Any recommendations on what prop to use.
I'm considering the warp drive prop but hoping I could find a wood prop for
less money that would do the trick.
Also - people in Minneapolis area - any recommendations on where to have corvair
machine work done?
Tom Brant
Brooklyn Park, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tulsa Fly-IN |
Any of y'all heading to the Tulsa Fly-In this weekend?
I will be there in the Cessna 195, N9883A. Here is
some info.
http://www.tulsaflyin.com/where_to_stay.htm
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
Interestingly enough Port Orford Cedars numbers are identical to Western Red Cedar
1150 ,425,1000 as I had in the graph.Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tulsa Fly-IN |
Sounds like a really good one, but unfortunately I won't be able to
make it. I
recently moved (or am in the slow process) of moving to the OKC (Norman, OK)
area. Currently my plane is at Chickasha (KCHK) but I'll be moving it to a
tiny grass strip ((McCaslin, O44) after a trip to Texas this weekend. Are
there any other Pieters in the Central Oklahoma area?
Steve Ruse
N6383J - Norman, OK
Quoting Larry Nelson :
>
>
> Any of y'all heading to the Tulsa Fly-In this weekend?
> I will be there in the Cessna 195, N9883A. Here is
> some info.
>
> http://www.tulsaflyin.com/where_to_stay.htm
>
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Cessna 195 N9883A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tulsa Fly-IN |
In a message dated 9/15/2005 9:29:09 PM Central Standard Time,
lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:
Any of y'all heading to the Tulsa Fly-In this weekend?
I will be there in the Cessna 195, N9883A. Here is
some info.
http://www.tulsaflyin.com/where_to_stay.htm
Larry,
Is that the annual EAA Fly In? I didn't see anything about the EAA at the
website. Bartlesville Ok is where they had it last year. That's a day trip,
down and back for me.
Weather permitting, I will be there with NX770CG.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
The two charts you want are at the bottom of this page;
http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html
If you were to build your spars from WR cedar they would
have to be 1 1/2" wide instead of 1". That, of course, means
changes to the ribs, mounting brackets at the cabanes and
outer strut, less room for fuel tank if used in center section,
etc.
My experience is that Douglas Fir is more "brittle" than Cedar.
I hope you're not expecting your spars to be bending enough
for this to be a problem. In my very younger years I made
archery bows out of whatever was at hand. That was DF and
WRC with a couple out of Oak flooring. All of it kiln dried.
None of them broke from shooting arrows. Run over, dog chewed,
lost in the salt chuck, stolen, sheesh! Good thing there was
lots of wood around.
Hemlock is a good choice but , at least here, is only available
as molding. My fuselage stringers are 1 1/16" square as that
is a standard molding size. The tail assembly and also the
wing ribs are hemlock.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Turrell
Interestingly enough Port Orford Cedars numbers are identical to Western Red
Cedar 1150 ,425,1000 as I had in the graph.Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tulsa Fly-IN |
I plan on flying NX25JM to Bartlesville......NEXT year.....
My Dad and grandparents are from Bartlesville...I know the town well and it's definitely
on my list of "where I'm gonna fly this thing when it's finished" airfields!).......
Jim in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tulsa Fly-IN
In a message dated 9/15/2005 9:29:09 PM Central Standard Time, lnelson208(at)yahoo.com
writes:
Any of y'all heading to the Tulsa Fly-In this weekend?
I will be there in the Cessna 195, N9883A. Here is
some info.
http://www.tulsaflyin.com/where_to_stay.htm
Larry,
Is that the annual EAA Fly In? I didn't see anything about the EAA at the website.
Bartlesville Ok is where they had it last year. That's a day trip, down
and back for me.
Weather permitting, I will be there with NX770CG.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair - prop recommendation and machine work |
I'm using a Tennessee Props 66x29 which ought to work good. Somethign like
a 64x32 would probably be better.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair - prop recommendation and machine work
>
>
> Two questions for the group.
>
> I'm building the long fuse with a corvair motor - typical William Wynne
> conversion with front starter and alternator. Any recommendations on what
> prop to use. I'm considering the warp drive prop but hoping I could find
> a wood prop for less money that would do the trick.
>
> Also - people in Minneapolis area - any recommendations on where to have
> corvair machine work done?
>
> Tom Brant
> Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: corvair - prop recommendation and machine work |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/16/2005 11:44:54 AM
Tom,
I use a Tennessee prop 64 x 34 on my long fuselage and Corvair powered
Pietenpol
Empty Weight is 680 Lbs, with pilot and part fuel 920 Lbs
Climb rate approximately 725 fpm @ 55 Mph and density altitude of 2000
feet.
Top speed indicated so far 90 Mph.
I am only 6 flying hours into my test phase, so take this for what it's
worth.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
A review of FAA's Circular indicates WRC not on acceptable list, but white cedar
or Port Orford cedar ok to substitute for spruce but gluing requires some special
work (I suspect due to the excessive oils in cedar, oh but it does smell
so good while you're working with it). DFir, Noble Fir, Western Hemlock all
ok to replace spruce. Each has pros and cons due to workability and gluing.
White Pine and Yellow poplar ok to replace spruce but structures must be larger
due to reduced compression and/or shear.
Guess because we're experimentalist and our own testpilots/design engineers/mechanics/floorsweepers/bottlewashers/etc.
when it comes to our adventures with homebuilts,
you could use just about any kind of wood you want. But probably best
to stick with some known types.
Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating, ain't latex
paint water soluble? Heck, if you're gonna use latex paint, why not just
cover the plane with Tedlar or Tyvek (white housewrapping stuff with Dupont or
Home Depot's name on it), like the ultralights do. It's been proven to work.
Will last a lifetime (limited pilot lifetime warranteed), will glue nicely,
will heat shrink. Great stuff, no nasty solvent laden paints needed. Besides
if you can't get Powdermilk Biscuits to sponsor you homebuilt, why not Home Depot
or Lowes even if they don't know they're your sponsor.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
The two charts you want are at the bottom of this page;
http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html
If you were to build your spars from WR cedar they would
have to be 1 1/2" wide instead of 1". That, of course, means
changes to the ribs, mounting brackets at the cabanes and
outer strut, less room for fuel tank if used in center section,
etc.
My experience is that Douglas Fir is more "brittle" than Cedar.
I hope you're not expecting your spars to be bending enough
for this to be a problem. In my very younger years I made
archery bows out of whatever was at hand. That was DF and
WRC with a couple out of Oak flooring. All of it kiln dried.
None of them broke from shooting arrows. Run over, dog chewed,
lost in the salt chuck, stolen, sheesh! Good thing there was
lots of wood around.
Hemlock is a good choice but , at least here, is only available
as molding. My fuselage stringers are 1 1/16" square as that
is a standard molding size. The tail assembly and also the
wing ribs are hemlock.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Turrell
Interestingly enough Port Orford Cedars numbers are identical to Western Red
Cedar 1150 ,425,1000 as I had in the graph.Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirk Huizenga <kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair - prop recommendation and machine work |
Tom,
My corvair had a hand made 64x30 prop. I can't tell you anything about
performance since I never flew it before starting the restoration. I
think you will start to see a pattern of 64x30-34. The nice thing about
the Warp Drive is that the pitch is ground adjustable so you can dial in
your preference of climb or cruise a bit more.
Regarding places in the cities to get corvair work done - I 'm guessing
you are talking primarily about grinding the crank and getting a valve
job. I would call Cheetah Auto Supply in Roseville (651) 487-5774 and I
would zip off an email to the guys at Minnesota Corvair and see what
they recommend http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=CMI
The main thing to check concerning the crank is to see if the grinder
can radius the corners appropriately. There have been some broken cranks
(under very different conditions and applications than a Piet, remember)
lately and WW has seen a pattern of squared off journals when reground.
Check http://flycorvair.com/crankissues.html if you haven't already.
Hope this helps
Kirk
tmbrant1(at)netzero.com wrote:
>
>Two questions for the group.
>
>I'm building the long fuse with a corvair motor - typical William Wynne conversion
with front starter and alternator. Any recommendations on what prop to use.
I'm considering the warp drive prop but hoping I could find a wood prop for
less money that would do the trick.
>
>Also - people in Minneapolis area - any recommendations on where to have corvair
machine work done?
>
>Tom Brant
>Brooklyn Park, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
>
> From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> [snipped]
>
> Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating, ain't
latex paint water soluble?
>
No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the water is
allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and becomes a large
molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water immersion.
If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't sell very
well, would it?
Mike (one of many on the list)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I flew thru a couple of rain showers this summer. It stayed outside
overnight at Brodhead. I have accidently spilled gas while fueling a few
times, I use 409 to clean the bugs off of the leading edges and my $100
Sherwin Williams job still looks good.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
>
>>
>> From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> [snipped]
>>
>> Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating,
>> ain't latex paint water soluble?
>>
> No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the
> water is allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and
> becomes a large molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water
> immersion.
>
> If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't
> sell very well, would it?
>
> Mike (one of many on the list)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> |
For those that are interested in the comparison of different wood species,and probably more info than you require,see http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf Tables 4-3b are in (inch pound)* for my US brethren.It's 46 pages long but tables are allways handy to have.Knowledge is ever useful.Regards,Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Living as I do in an unpainted log cabin in AK, last latex paint I put on
the outside of a house was some years ago, but the exterior grade latex
paints seemed to be designed to all want to "chalk", therefore bleeding out
some of their fillers/and or polymers over the years so the house remained
white or at least looking somewhat freshly painted until the next time you
had to repaint. You repainted when the paint looked kinda thin or started
to peel.
Painting and/or recovering now 5 airplanes in my lifetime, I recall the
average cost of coatings for a fabric plane has been about $600.00,
including a good solvent based polyurethane/acrylate finish coat. In the
case of the Piete, the coatings costs was about 5% of the cost of building
the plane, due to using Stits as the filler coats. In the case of the
Osprey it was about 2%, and the Cozy less than 1%. Putting on a good
protective paint designed to last 20 years or more was the easiest and
cheapest part of building the airplanes. Many of the guys building
ultralights and some homebuilder designs like the KR use a solvent based
polyurethane over the fabric directly (no Stits or dope), it seems to work
fine. To each his/her own, we love the adventure of trying new ideas.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
----- Original Message -----
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
>
> >
> > From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> [snipped]
> >
> > Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating,
ain't latex paint water soluble?
> >
> No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the
water is allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and
becomes a large molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water
immersion.
>
> If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't
sell very well, would it?
>
> Mike (one of many on the list)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Latex Paint Repair and longevity 8 years |
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I just recovered a certified airplane with Airtech (Stinson 108-2). I
did all the work myself including the painting. It cost over $3000
total, not including the $1000 turbine respirator and HVLP paint setup.
There is a 5% price increase just published to take effect Oct 1st. A
gallon of polyurethane paint is $200. (add another $50 if you like red)
I spent $20 a gallon on the SW latex paint. I'd say there is about a
10x savings on coatings if you can live with an experimental paint job.
To each his own as you say. I agree. I took a chance when I painted
with latex 8 years ago and I figure I won on the decision. I've even had
to do a repair after a some road rash when my brother wiped out one gear
leg. EASY! I found that if you use a warm iron 200 degrees or so the
paint will soften and ball up roll off the fabric with a little
pressure. Make your repair with regular solvents and fabric cements,
re-prime and paint. Barely noticeable.
I'd do it again on a vintage experimental like the Piet.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Bowen
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
Living as I do in an unpainted log cabin in AK, last latex paint I put
on
the outside of a house was some years ago, but the exterior grade latex
paints seemed to be designed to all want to "chalk", therefore bleeding
out
some of their fillers/and or polymers over the years so the house
remained
white or at least looking somewhat freshly painted until the next time
you
had to repaint. You repainted when the paint looked kinda thin or
started
to peel.
Painting and/or recovering now 5 airplanes in my lifetime, I recall the
average cost of coatings for a fabric plane has been about $600.00,
including a good solvent based polyurethane/acrylate finish coat. In
the
case of the Piete, the coatings costs was about 5% of the cost of
building
the plane, due to using Stits as the filler coats. In the case of the
Osprey it was about 2%, and the Cozy less than 1%. Putting on a good
protective paint designed to last 20 years or more was the easiest and
cheapest part of building the airplanes. Many of the guys building
ultralights and some homebuilder designs like the KR use a solvent based
polyurethane over the fabric directly (no Stits or dope), it seems to
work
fine. To each his/her own, we love the adventure of trying new ideas.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
----- Original Message -----
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
>
> >
> > From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> [snipped]
> >
> > Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric
coating,
ain't latex paint water soluble?
> >
> No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the
water is allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets
and
becomes a large molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water
immersion.
>
> If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't
sell very well, would it?
>
> Mike (one of many on the list)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Handbook |
Great stuff - thanks!
>For those that are interested in the comparison of different wood
>species,and probably more info than you require,see
><http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf>http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf
>Tables 4-3b are in (inch pound)* for my US brethren.It's 46 pages
>long but tables are allways handy to have.Knowledge is ever
>useful.Regards,Mike
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
<004501c5ba8c$2e8eb7a0$a8055118@dawsonaviation>
<003b01c5baea$d0cfa570$7b9870d1@defaultcomp>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Thanks for the information about the wood and additional commentary.
The tedlar/tyvek stuff is a cool idea, IMO, and for the reasons you
give. DuPont officially says not to use it for them airy-planes,
but...
>A review of FAA's Circular indicates WRC not on acceptable list, but
>white cedar or Port Orford cedar ok to substitute for spruce but
>gluing requires some special work (I suspect due to the excessive
>oils in cedar, oh but it does smell so good while you're working
>with it). DFir, Noble Fir, Western Hemlock all ok to replace
>spruce. Each has pros and cons due to workability and gluing.
>White Pine and Yellow poplar ok to replace spruce but structures
>must be larger due to reduced compression and/or shear.
>
>Guess because we're experimentalist and our own testpilots/design
>engineers/mechanics/floorsweepers/bottlewashers/etc. when it comes
>to our adventures with homebuilts, you could use just about any kind
>of wood you want. But probably best to stick with some known types.
>
>Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric
>coating, ain't latex paint water soluble? Heck, if you're gonna use
>latex paint, why not just cover the plane with Tedlar or Tyvek
>(white housewrapping stuff with Dupont or Home Depot's name on it),
>like the ultralights do. It's been proven to work. Will last a
>lifetime (limited pilot lifetime warranteed), will glue nicely, will
>heat shrink. Great stuff, no nasty solvent laden paints needed.
>Besides if you can't get Powdermilk Biscuits to sponsor you
>homebuilt, why not Home Depot or Lowes even if they don't know
>they're your sponsor.
>Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
>Cozy IV N64CY
>Osprey II N64SY
>Pietenpol N-1033B
>" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lathrop <jlathrop(at)gmail.com> |
Nick,
Harbor Freight has a 2 pin wood moisture meter on sale for $29.99. I have no
idea how accurate it may be, or need to be. I got an e-mail ad for in-store
specials.
Check it out at:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid2757
Jim Lathrop
On 9/15/05, Nick Harris wrote:
>
> I think that it was Kiln dried. These were boards that would be used for
> finish work. I will double check though. Where would you get a moisture
> meter? How much? How does it work?
> Nick
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Turrell
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:51 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
> As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment
> that if it was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.
> If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter
> and measure its content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait
> for it to air dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the
> process before using it in your project.Working with wood that has not at
> least air dried to 12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks after
> your plane is put together.
> From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!
> Kind regards,Mike
> Ps-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair - prop recommendation and machine work |
Hadn't heard about the squared off journals... All I heard is that the cranks
that were breaking all had prop extensios which against recommendations...
I sent my crank to WW for machine work - That way I get the grinding, mod for the
safety shaft, hybrid studs all in one shot.. Plus, I know it will be done
to his standards and don't have to second guess.
Will check out the place you mentioned - thanks.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
Jim
Thanks for the heads up.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Lathrop
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
Nick,
Harbor Freight has a 2 pin wood moisture meter on sale for $29.99. I have no
idea how accurate it may be, or need to be. I got an e-mail ad for in-store
specials.
Check it out at:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid2757
Jim Lathrop
On 9/15/05, Nick Harris wrote:
I think that it was Kiln dried. These were boards that would be used for finish
work. I will double check though. Where would you get a moisture meter?
How much? How does it work?
Nick
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Turrell
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:51 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment that
if it was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.
If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter and
measure its content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait for it
to air dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the process before
using it in your project.Working with wood that has not at least air dried
to 12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks after your plane is put
together.
From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!
Kind regards,Mike
Ps-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
I got sold on the idea of Latex in my project, when I read an article (with photos)
of a person using Latex paint in his boat hul, also in his sailboat (both
wood boats) and I didnt see any color in the lake's water... :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
bike.mike(at)charter.net wrote:
>
> From: "Gordon Bowen" [snipped]
>
> Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating, ain't
latex paint water soluble?
>
No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the water is allowed
to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and becomes a large
molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water immersion.
If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't sell very
well, would it?
Mike (one of many on the list)
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
Shhhh, The expensive covernig company could go bankrupt... :-) :-)
We all know: "If not expensive, is no good" is very common, mainly in aviation.
Now serious, I am very happy with the results (almost 6 years) and will do it
again in any future dacron covered project I build, with a clear urethane light
hand over it, to give "gloss and touch" nobody will notice is not the original
thing.
How much is the life of the covering (the cheap ASpruce 1.8 dacron), in a hangared
ultralight flown about 50 to 80 hrs a year?
Is out of the hangar almost all day, at least 40 of the 52 saturdays of the year...
Just curious...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Dick Navratil wrote:
I flew thru a couple of rain showers this summer. It stayed outside
overnight at Brodhead. I have accidently spilled gas while fueling a few
times, I use 409 to clean the bugs off of the leading edges and my $100
Sherwin Williams job still looks good.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
>
>>
>> From: "Gordon Bowen" [snipped]
>>
>> Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating,
>> ain't latex paint water soluble?
>>
> No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the
> water is allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and
> becomes a large molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water
> immersion.
>
> If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't
> sell very well, would it?
>
> Mike (one of many on the list)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Please, any comments, will like to buy one, if is good enough for our porpouse.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Jim Lathrop wrote:
Nick,
Harbor Freight has a 2 pin wood moisture meter on sale for $29.99. I have no idea
how accurate it may be, or need to be. I got an e-mail ad for in-store specials.
Check it out at:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=2757
Jim Lathrop
On 9/15/05, Nick Harris wrote:I think that it was Kiln dried.
These were boards that would be used for finish work. I will double check
though. Where would you get a moisture meter? How much? How does it work?
Nick
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment that if
it was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.
If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter and measure
its content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait for it to
air dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the process before using
it in your project.Working with wood that has not at least air dried to
12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks after your plane is put together.
From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!
Kind regards,Mike
Ps-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.561, required 3, AWL 0.04, BAYES_00 -2.60)
Gary Gower wrote:
> Shhhh, The expensive covernig company could go bankrupt... :-) :-)
>
> We all know: "If not expensive, is no good" is very common, mainly
> in aviation.
>
> Now serious, I am very happy with the results (almost 6 years) and
> will do it again in any future dacron covered project I build, with a
> clear urethane light hand over it, to give "gloss and touch" nobody
> will notice is not the original thing.
>
> How much is the life of the covering (the cheap ASpruce 1.8
> dacron), in a hangared ultralight flown about 50 to 80 hrs a year?
> Is out of the hangar almost all day, at least 40 of the 52 saturdays
> of the year...
> Just curious...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
Something to think about though guys when the paint does start to go,
and sooner or later they all do, using latex may cause problems getting
it off and then insuring the fabric is still good underneath after you
use a stripper that likely was not designed for a fabric in the first
place. With the stripper that gets the other paints off get the latex
off as well? Does it react differently with latex paint vs what it was
designed to remove? If so does it still do the job equally as well?
Can you be sure that chemical reactions that were never designed to be
on that particular material will react in the same manner? How will
latex stripper that you know will get latex paint off effect the life of
the fabric? Are you taking 80 year fabric and making it less than 5
year fabric?
Some of the most frustrated workers I have ever seen in aircraft paint
shops happen to draw the local hanger queen that was bought by someone
that whated to fix it up. They find out it had either auto paint or
house paint on it and the price and frustration level goes way up. I
once saw a Champ that was painted with a roller of all things. Sad
thing is that for a while it was an improvement over what it had. Im
all for saving money but Id talk to a paint shop before I went cheap on
the paint. You do not want to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
The PolyFiber people at Oshkosh gave me an estimate of around $3000 for a
full PolyFiber job on an Aircamper (sounds high but thats what they said).
If I spend around $4500 on the airframe without covering and $4500 on the
corvair engine that comes to 25% of the cost.
My current house was built 8 years ago and was painted with latex. I live at
6400 ft. (2000m) in Colorado with around 330 direct sunlight days per year.
UV radiation intensity increases 10% per 1000 meters so I get 20% more than
you lowlanders. The house gets no shade. Not only does the paint still look
like new but I am unable to tell exactly where I touched up some spots last
year with the original paint. If my hangered Piet is exposed a total of 100
hrs per year than I should be able to go 87.6 years and have it's latex
paint see no more UV damage than whats currently on my house (I will be
142.6 years old then). And my house has also had to put up with rain, hail,
snow, 60 mph winds, temps from 105 to -10, etc the whole time.
On 9/16/05, Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
> >
>
> Living as I do in an unpainted log cabin in AK, last latex paint I put on
> the outside of a house was some years ago, but the exterior grade latex
> paints seemed to be designed to all want to "chalk", therefore bleeding
> out
> some of their fillers/and or polymers over the years so the house remained
> white or at least looking somewhat freshly painted until the next time you
> had to repaint. You repainted when the paint looked kinda thin or started
> to peel.
>
> Painting and/or recovering now 5 airplanes in my lifetime, I recall the
> average cost of coatings for a fabric plane has been about $600.00,
> including a good solvent based polyurethane/acrylate finish coat. In the
> case of the Piete, the coatings costs was about 5% of the cost of building
> the plane, due to using Stits as the filler coats. In the case of the
> Osprey it was about 2%, and the Cozy less than 1%. Putting on a good
> protective paint designed to last 20 years or more was the easiest and
> cheapest part of building the airplanes. Many of the guys building
> ultralights and some homebuilder designs like the KR use a solvent based
> polyurethane over the fabric directly (no Stits or dope), it seems to work
> fine. To each his/her own, we love the adventure of trying new ideas.
> Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
> Cozy IV N64CY
> Osprey II N64SY
> Pietenpol N-1033B
> " There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> [snipped]
> > >
> > > Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric
> coating,
> ain't latex paint water soluble?
> > >
> > No. Latex based paint is suspended in water until it sets. When the
> water is allowed to evaporate out of the paint (paint drying), it sets and
> becomes a large molecule polymer whose bonds are not breakable by water
> immersion.
> >
> > If it were water soluble, latex exterior house paint probably wouldn't
> sell very well, would it?
> >
> > Mike (one of many on the list)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/18/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
I'm not contributing to details on which paint to use. I tend to use the best
in most things but haven't come to the paint question yet.
Instead, I want to comment that the repair job with the kids is a great story.
You handled that very well, and likely a lot better than I would have thought
to do after my baby had been torn. You turned their error into a fulfilling
adventure, and they felt better about themselves, as well. Thanks for the story.
Tim
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/18/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List
I'm not contributing to details on which paint to use. I tend to use the best
in most things but haven't come to the paint question yet.
Instead, I want to comment that the repair job with the kids is a great story.
You handled that very well, and likely a lot better than I would have thought
to do after my baby had been torn. You turned their error into a fulfilling
adventure, and they felt better about themselves, as well. Thanks for the story.
Tim
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | TRANSFER PUNCHES |
I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already knows
about them I appologize for wasting your time.
I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the plans
but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc. Drilled
them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting my
extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge 4130.
the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the wood
fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I ran
a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill bit
would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in the
small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old #1
phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to the
fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage side
and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one up
to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my machinist
friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little point
on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was shocked...I
thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has fought
with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool out
there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm the
only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool I
apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo and
I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
Ed Grentzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | TRANSFER PUNCHES |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Just shows what a good idea it really was. Just because someone else
thought of it first doesn't diminish in the least your cleverness in
coming up with this method.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already
knows
about them I appologize for wasting your time.
I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the
plans
but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc.
Drilled
them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting
my
extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge
4130.
the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the
wood
fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I
ran
a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill
bit
would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in
the
small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old
#1
phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to
the
fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage
side
and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one
up
to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my
machinist
friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little
point
on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was
shocked...I
thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has
fought
with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool
out
there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm
the
only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool I
apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo
and
I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
Ed Grentzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Martens" <gary_martens(at)umanitoba.ca> |
| Subject: | distance between front wheels |
I have been reading for quite a while but this is my first active
participation. I am building a wooden long fuselage with a Corvair
engine and have a question about the distance between the front
wheels. My plans call for 56 inches to the center of the wheels. This
seems a bit narrow as my Cessna 150 has 80 inches between
wheels.Regards,
gary martens CCA
Room 222 Agriculture Building
Plant Science Department
University of Manitoba
R3T 2N2
(204) 474-8227
gary_martens(at)umanitoba.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: distance between front wheels |
Gary,
It's great to see you posted your first question. There are a lot of lurkers
out there, and I'm sure lots of questions.
My plane is the Short Fuselage, Split axle gear (I assume you're building the
split axle gear), spring struts (originally bunji struts), and Cont. A65
engine. My wheels are right at the 56" measurement called out in the plans, and
it handles just fine on the ground. Just remember you have 2=BA of camber when
there is no weight on wheels, and even with the weight on the gear, you still
should see the camber. The plans show the wheels perpendicular to the ground,
not really what it should look like when complete, with the weight on the
gear. The gear should be built with 0=BA toe in, in other words, parallel with
the
centerline. If you should err on this dimension, err to the side of toe in,
but get it as close as possible to 0=BA toe in. The C150 is a side by side, so
you should really compare it to something more in the line of a J3 Cub...but
the Cub is probably even a little wider gear than the Piet, because the fuse is
a little wider.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Case <dav3xor(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
I am trying to get started with building a Pietenpol by putting
together a wing rib jig. Perhaps I've been thinking too hard (very
likely), and I have my mind all in a twist over how to lay out the
shape of the wing on my board. I've seen all the warnings about not
using the full size rib plan because of stretching/shrinkage from the
printer...
So, I'm thinking, the rib is 5 feet long, so I'll need a 5 foot long
line drawn on my board, and all the good straight edges I know about
are 4 feet long (or a bit longer if you use a meter stick). So, will
it be precise enough just to move the straightedge along another foot,
and very carefully line it up with the previous mark, then finish the
job, or is there a better way? I guess I could lay down a chalk line,
but that seems very... non precise? I never took drafting in High
School, can you tell?
Any tips on drawing lines at 90 degrees to this original line? Other
than using a square, and then checking diagonals with other lines for
equal distance? Should I be this anal retentive? Especially when the
original wing was designed on the drawing room floor?
I suppose that most of the small errors above probably go away once
you drive in the nails and run the spline.
I also have been looking at the plans themselves which poses another
question. The original plan for the ribs does not show any vertical
pieces to attach to the spars, the spar only attaches to the ribs at
the top and bottom. The full size rib plan has vertical pieces on the
insides of the spars, and then some websites have vertical pieces on
both sides of the spar, like the ribs from most of the other designs
I've looked at. I'm inclined to go with the version from the full
size plan, unless there's a good reason to do a vertical piece on each
side of the spar?
Oh!, another question, I saw a message a while back about die cutting
gussets, but I can't find it. Were can you get a die like this, and
any idea how much it would cost?
I saw Jack Phillips' plane at Oshkosh; simply gorgeous.
Sorry about all the questions, I've been saving them up.. :)
--
David Case
Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
www.builddiary.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRANSFER PUNCHES |
Another Harbor Freight tool which everyone should have and is cheap and
worth its weight in gold is a "vise brake". It comes in several sizes from
4" up to 8" and has magnetic jaws which stick to the inside of the jaws of
your vise (not beer drinking or women chasing type of vice). Any way, it
uses the vise to make a perfect 90' bend or less or slightly more in light
guage sheet metal. Only drawback is it is only as wide as your vise.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
> Just shows what a good idea it really was. Just because someone else
> thought of it first doesn't diminish in the least your cleverness in
> coming up with this method.
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
> Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> Clinical Technologies and Services
> Cardinal Health
> Creedmoor, NC
> (919) 528-5212
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:18 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
>
> I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
>
> that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already
> knows
> about them I appologize for wasting your time.
> I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
> fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the
> plans
> but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc.
> Drilled
> them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
> bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting
> my
> extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge
> 4130.
> the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
> PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the
> wood
> fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I
> ran
> a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill
> bit
> would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in
> the
> small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
>
> center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old
> #1
> phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to
> the
> fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage
> side
> and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
>
> mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
> fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
>
> holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one
> up
> to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my
> machinist
> friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
> bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
> called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little
> point
> on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was
> shocked...I
> thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has
> fought
> with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool
> out
> there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm
> the
> only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool I
>
> apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo
> and
> I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
>
>
> Ed Grentzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
Hi Dave,
You really don't have to be that precise. Regardless
of what some others have said, I used the full sized
pattern for my ribs and they came out fine. Even if
they aren't perfectly made to the plans, they are
still good airfoils and a little variance from the
plans won't be that noticeable (the variance is
minute). I did build all my ribs on the same jig to
make them all about the same. I double laminated the
pattern before I cut it out and then cut it out with a
sharp Exacta Knife (scalples also work well too). I
then taped the cut-out onto a flat piece of of 3/4"
plywood that was reinforced with 2 X 4's to keep it
rigid and straight (of course using a straight line as
a reference). I then laid out my holding blocks along
the edges of the pattern and used wood screws to
fasten them down. I used plenty of holding blocks to
hold the capstrips tightly. I then melted some
parifin wax in a coffee can and painted the jig with a
coating of wax to prevent the glue from sticking to
the wood. This worked great and I only had to do some
touch up once in awhile.
I cut round pieces of 1/16" birch plywood using
Key-hole round saw blades you can buy at almost all
hardware stores and mounted the hole saw blades in my
drill press. Once the round pieces were cut, I then
halved them for some of the gussetts and quartered
them for the gussetts around the spar vertical pieces.
I used small aircraft nails to hold the gussetts in
place while the glue dried. If you will contact me
off line, I will be happy to send you some pics of my
jig and of the ribs. I used one verticle on each side
of the spar. I made a 3/4" by 4 3/4" false spar to
position the verticles accurately.
Hope this helps and best wishes.
Doc (H)
--- Dave Case wrote:
>
>
> I am trying to get started with building a Pietenpol
> by putting
> together a wing rib jig. Perhaps I've been thinking
> too hard (very
> likely), and I have my mind all in a twist over how
> to lay out the
> shape of the wing on my board. I've seen all the
> warnings about not
> using the full size rib plan because of
> stretching/shrinkage from the
> printer...
>
> So, I'm thinking, the rib is 5 feet long, so I'll
> need a 5 foot long
> line drawn on my board, and all the good straight
> edges I know about
> are 4 feet long (or a bit longer if you use a meter
> stick). So, will
> it be precise enough just to move the straightedge
> along another foot,
> and very carefully line it up with the previous
> mark, then finish the
> job, or is there a better way? I guess I could lay
> down a chalk line,
> but that seems very... non precise? I never took
> drafting in High
> School, can you tell?
>
> Any tips on drawing lines at 90 degrees to this
> original line? Other
> than using a square, and then checking diagonals
> with other lines for
> equal distance? Should I be this anal retentive?
> Especially when the
> original wing was designed on the drawing room
> floor?
>
> I suppose that most of the small errors above
> probably go away once
> you drive in the nails and run the spline.
>
> I also have been looking at the plans themselves
> which poses another
> question. The original plan for the ribs does not
> show any vertical
> pieces to attach to the spars, the spar only
> attaches to the ribs at
> the top and bottom. The full size rib plan has
> vertical pieces on the
> insides of the spars, and then some websites have
> vertical pieces on
> both sides of the spar, like the ribs from most of
> the other designs
> I've looked at. I'm inclined to go with the version
> from the full
> size plan, unless there's a good reason to do a
> vertical piece on each
> side of the spar?
>
> Oh!, another question, I saw a message a while back
> about die cutting
> gussets, but I can't find it. Were can you get a
> die like this, and
> any idea how much it would cost?
>
> I saw Jack Phillips' plane at Oshkosh; simply
> gorgeous.
>
> Sorry about all the questions, I've been saving them
> up.. :)
>
> --
> David Case
> Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
> www.builddiary.net
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRANSFER PUNCHES |
What is the thickest sheet you can bend with yours? Have yet to find one
that can do .090.
On 9/19/05, Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote:
>
> wingding(at)usmo.com>
>
> Another Harbor Freight tool which everyone should have and is cheap and
> worth its weight in gold is a "vise brake". It comes in several sizes from
> 4" up to 8" and has magnetic jaws which stick to the inside of the jaws of
> your vise (not beer drinking or women chasing type of vice). Any way, it
> uses the vise to make a perfect 90' bend or less or slightly more in light
> guage sheet metal. Only drawback is it is only as wide as your vise.
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
>
>
> >
> > Just shows what a good idea it really was. Just because someone else
> > thought of it first doesn't diminish in the least your cleverness in
> > coming up with this method.
> >
> > Jack Phillips, PE
> > Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> > Clinical Technologies and Services
> > Cardinal Health
> > Creedmoor, NC
> > (919) 528-5212
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
> > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:18 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
> >
> > that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already
> > knows
> > about them I appologize for wasting your time.
> > I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
> > fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the
> > plans
> > but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc.
> > Drilled
> > them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
> > bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting
> > my
> > extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge
> > 4130.
> > the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
> > PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the
> > wood
> > fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I
> > ran
> > a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill
> > bit
> > would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in
> > the
> > small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
> >
> > center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old
> > #1
> > phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to
> > the
> > fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage
> > side
> > and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
> >
> > mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
> > fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
> >
> > holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one
> > up
> > to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my
> > machinist
> > friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
> > bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
> > called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little
> > point
> > on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was
> > shocked...I
> > thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has
> > fought
> > with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool
> > out
> > there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm
> > the
> > only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool I
> >
> > apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo
> > and
> > I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
> >
> >
> > Ed Grentzer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRANSFER PUNCHES |
I wish I could tell you that, I don't have the box anymore. I haven't tried to
bend anything that thick because of the sharp point of the anvil. I guess I could
grind it down though. It would seem if you had a strong 6" vise you could
bend .090. I used it for the thinner fittings though.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
What is the thickest sheet you can bend with yours? Have yet to find one that
can do .090.
On 9/19/05, Dennis Engelkenjohn < wingding(at)usmo.com> wrote:
Another Harbor Freight tool which everyone should have and is cheap and
worth its weight in gold is a "vise brake". It comes in several sizes from
4" up to 8" and has magnetic jaws which stick to the inside of the jaws of
your vise (not beer drinking or women chasing type of vice). Any way, it
uses the vise to make a perfect 90' bend or less or slightly more in light
guage sheet metal. Only drawback is it is only as wide as your vise.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com >
To:
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
> Just shows what a good idea it really was. Just because someone else
> thought of it first doesn't diminish in the least your cleverness in
> coming up with this method.
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
> Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> Clinical Technologies and Services
> Cardinal Health
> Creedmoor, NC
> (919) 528-5212
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:18 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
>
>
> I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
>
> that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already
> knows
> about them I appologize for wasting your time.
> I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
> fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the
> plans
> but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc.
> Drilled
> them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
> bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting
> my
> extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge
> 4130.
> the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
> PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the
> wood
> fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I
> ran
> a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill
> bit
> would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in
> the
> small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
>
> center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old
> #1
> phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to
> the
> fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage
> side
> and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
>
> mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
> fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
>
> holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one
> up
> to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my
> machinist
> friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
> bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
> called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little
> point
> on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was
> shocked...I
> thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has
> fought
> with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool
> out
> there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm
> the
> only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool I
>
> apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo
> and
> I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
>
>
> Ed Grentzer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
I have been following this discussion with interest. Does anyone know of a
plane being covered with Stitts process through silver and then latex as the
final coat? Are they compatible?
I bought my latex recently and thought I was going to have to get "tough"
with the sales person because she first started out by telling me that I
should go to an automotive paint supply store because the latex was just
going to peel off. After reading the label about how tenacious their
premium paint was and I smiled and told her I would take that chance, she
then told me the company would not allow her to sell it to me to use on an
airplane. I smiled and showed her the color I wanted. She then said she
didn't think they had any of the correct base. I smiled and asked if she
would mind looking as I only needed one gallon. She finally gave in and
mixed the color. Whew...
Ted
Trying to finish a Piet while dodging hurricanes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRANSFER PUNCHES |
I did some .090 but first ground down the point of the anvil (a LOT!). Can't see
it in the attached (small) picture but that's actually a pretty dull point.
I've had the same good experience with this tool as others have mentioned here.
Really a neat addition to your workshop. Get the largest vise you can afford
and a vise break to match.
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
I wish I could tell you that, I don't have the box anymore. I haven't tried to
bend anything that thick because of the sharp point of the anvil. I guess I
could grind it down though. It would seem if you had a strong 6" vise you could
bend .090. I used it for the thinner fittings though.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
What is the thickest sheet you can bend with yours? Have yet to find one that
can do .090.
On 9/19/05, Dennis Engelkenjohn < wingding(at)usmo.com> wrote:
Another Harbor Freight tool which everyone should have and is cheap and
worth its weight in gold is a "vise brake". It comes in several sizes from
4" up to 8" and has magnetic jaws which stick to the inside of the jaws of
your vise (not beer drinking or women chasing type of vice). Any way, it
uses the vise to make a perfect 90' bend or less or slightly more in light
guage sheet metal. Only drawback is it is only as wide as your vise.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com >
To:
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
> Just shows what a good idea it really was. Just because someone else
> thought of it first doesn't diminish in the least your cleverness in
> coming up with this method.
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
> Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> Clinical Technologies and Services
> Cardinal Health
> Creedmoor, NC
> (919) 528-5212
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:18 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: TRANSFER PUNCHES
>
>
>
> I have been around tools all my life but just recently learned of a tool
>
> that I think needs to be shared with the group. If everyone already
> knows
> about them I appologize for wasting your time.
> I built my lower motor mount brackets ( the ones that bolt to the
> fuselage) several years ago out of 14 gauge steel as called for in the
> plans
> but extended the tabs 1/4" to make room for firewall insulation etc.
> Drilled
> them and the fuselage and bolted them on. The long thin extended tabs
> bothered me because they looked too flimsy do do the job of supporting
> my
> extended motor mount. So I made a new set of brakets out of 13 gauge
> 4130.
> the problem I had now was, I have new blanks that need to be drilled
> PRECISELY to line up with the holes which were already drilled in the
> wood
> fuselage. I scratched my head for quite a while because I figured if I
> ran
> a drill bit through the wood to mark the steel the flutes of the drill
> bit
> would wollow out the holes in the wood. A center punch wouldnt fit in
> the
> small hole and even if it did it wouldn't necessarily be exactly in the
>
> center. So I made a centerpunch out of 3/16" hardened steel rod ( an old
> #1
> phillips screwdriver) carefully clamped one half of the new bracket to
> the
> fuselage. slid the punch into the hole in the wood from the fuselage
> side
> and tapped it with a hammer. Removed the bracket and viola a centerpunch
>
> mark EXACTLY in the middle of the hole. I drilled it, pinned it to the
> fuselage with a bolt and did the rest the same way. After doing all the
>
> holes that way they all lined up perfectly. It worked so good I drew one
> up
> to do the 5/16" motor mount to bracket bolt holes. I took it to my
> machinist
> friend this morning and asked him to make me one out of a 5/16" grade 8
> bolt. He said why make one when I have a whole set of them!!!! They are
> called TRANSFER PUNCHES. they look like a steel rod with a tiny little
> point
> on one end and his set has about 15 different sizes in it. I was
> shocked...I
> thought it was my great idea. I know I can't be the only one who has
> fought
> with this type of alignment problem. I had no idea that there was a tool
> out
> there designed specifically for this type of job. Like I said, If I'm
> the
> only one that didn't know about this simple but amazingly acurate tool
I
>
> apologize, but they work great for any steel piece that you have to redo
> and
> I have a pile of them. Hope it helps someone out there......
>
>
> Ed Grentzer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <doylecombskeith(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
Ted, I don't feel adequate to weigh in most of the discussions, but I do
have a modified Piet that was done in silver and I painted on it with latex
paint. I have had one place that chipped off, but I also covered the latex
with a polytheurene coating to keep it from showing every finger and hand
print. The latex is too soft for me but the clear coating seems to really
solidify the paint. It looks ok and seems to wear of over the silver. I did
have to clean the silver thoroughly before applying the paint.
Doyle Combs
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
I put a two part epoxy latex available at marine supply stores on my Osprey.
Spent about 6 months stripping this off after it peeled in just one Alaskan
winter, sitting outside. Personally I'd recommend sticking with solvent
based paints on Stits. The Stits system is based on PVC, ergo the reason
it's hyped as being flame retardant. I don't think you'll get any type of
physical bond with the Stits because it's slick, and without solvent you
won't get any type of chemical bond. But to each their own pain and
experimentation.
Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska
Cozy IV N64CY
Osprey II N64SY
Pietenpol N-1033B
" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight, latex paint...
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest. Does anyone know of
a
> plane being covered with Stitts process through silver and then latex as
the
> final coat? Are they compatible?
>
> I bought my latex recently and thought I was going to have to get "tough"
> with the sales person because she first started out by telling me that I
> should go to an automotive paint supply store because the latex was just
> going to peel off. After reading the label about how tenacious their
> premium paint was and I smiled and told her I would take that chance, she
> then told me the company would not allow her to sell it to me to use on an
> airplane. I smiled and showed her the color I wanted. She then said she
> didn't think they had any of the correct base. I smiled and asked if she
> would mind looking as I only needed one gallon. She finally gave in and
> mixed the color. Whew...
>
> Ted
> Trying to finish a Piet while dodging hurricanes
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
Hello Ted,
Well, I feel kind of unconfortable because my coments about Latex paint are 180d
from Gordons comments, but I just write my first hand experience... No intention
to argue him at all...
Please do some test pieces (wood squares with dacron ironed and latex),
You can not use silver Sttits because the Latex holds mechanical ("grabs" the strings
of Dacron) so need to aply directly, and almost directly (about 5 to 10%
water max) from the can, if the paints "drops" to the other side of the wing
is too thin. Is better the hard side than thin... 3 light hands of clear dolor
or 2 if aply darker color (blue for example) will do the job.
The older first experiments (12? years ago)... advised to Clean the Dacron carefuly
first with MEK, and aply a first hand of black latex to block the UV from
the Sun, then the color hands on top.
I did it almost this way, (I cleaned the Dacron first with a lightly damped old
towel with half thinner and half Acetone, MEK is too dangerous for your hands)
then applied the black, But you need up to 3 + hands of clear color (yellow
in my case) to cover the black...
This person (Jerry Buner ?) tested several squares. He painted some with black
and some only color..;
Last tests (about 10 (?) years later, cant remember precisly) gave him the same
results (pass) in the tester for him, in both type of samples.
I read recently from another source, (the boat latex paint article?) that the
Latex paint is UV blocker by itself. I trust this. For my next project...
In the same article mentions that Latex is the most used and tested paint
in the world ... (?) Could be.
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Ted Brousseau wrote:
I have been following this discussion with interest. Does anyone know of a
plane being covered with Stitts process through silver and then latex as the
final coat? Are they compatible?
I bought my latex recently and thought I was going to have to get "tough"
with the sales person because she first started out by telling me that I
should go to an automotive paint supply store because the latex was just
going to peel off. After reading the label about how tenacious their
premium paint was and I smiled and told her I would take that chance, she
then told me the company would not allow her to sell it to me to use on an
airplane. I smiled and showed her the color I wanted. She then said she
didn't think they had any of the correct base. I smiled and asked if she
would mind looking as I only needed one gallon. She finally gave in and
mixed the color. Whew...
Ted
Trying to finish a Piet while dodging hurricanes
===================================================
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
You can get 6' and even 8' long levels now. This can be used
as a straight edge, but you can use the 4' and move it along if
you like. How thick is a pencil or pen line anyway? Trust your
eye.
I have a particular way off sharpening my woodworking
pencils. I flatten one side from the center of the end up about
3 inches on my disk sander then round the other side off to a
point. The flat side is very useful in sighting over uneven areas
and running along a flat surface such as the face of that level
we've been talking about. for instance, if you had a warped or
bent board you would mark points on each end, line up the
level to those and slide the pencil flat side along the flat of the
level. The line on the board will be straight.
Doc has given you some good info and a 16th of an inch in rib
shape isn't going be a big deal. Just try to get all your ribs the
same shape as each other. This can be a problem when it all
goes together and you find your leading and trailing ends to be
out of line with each other. Wood can be funny that way.
Of course the more precise you manage, the less problems
with fitting one thing to another will turn up later.
I used an electric kettle with metal vacuum cleaner pipe
stuffed into it for steaming. It fits well on some kettles. Just
don't steal the pipe off your wife's vacuum. She might not
be happy with that. :-) Thrift store kettle and vac tube- $7 US.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions.
>
> I am trying to get started with building a Pietenpol by putting
> together a wing rib jig. Perhaps I've been thinking too hard (very
> likely), and I have my mind all in a twist over how to lay out the
> shape of the wing on my board. I've seen all the warnings about not
> using the full size rib plan because of stretching/shrinkage from the
> printer...
>
> So, I'm thinking, the rib is 5 feet long, so I'll need a 5 foot long
> line drawn on my board, and all the good straight edges I know about
> are 4 feet long (or a bit longer if you use a meter stick). So, will
> it be precise enough just to move the straightedge along another foot,
> and very carefully line it up with the previous mark, then finish the
> job, or is there a better way? I guess I could lay down a chalk line,
> but that seems very... non precise? I never took drafting in High
> School, can you tell?
>
> Any tips on drawing lines at 90 degrees to this original line? Other
> than using a square, and then checking diagonals with other lines for
> equal distance? Should I be this anal retentive? Especially when the
> original wing was designed on the drawing room floor?
>
> I suppose that most of the small errors above probably go away once
> you drive in the nails and run the spline.
>
> I also have been looking at the plans themselves which poses another
> question. The original plan for the ribs does not show any vertical
> pieces to attach to the spars, the spar only attaches to the ribs at
> the top and bottom. The full size rib plan has vertical pieces on the
> insides of the spars, and then some websites have vertical pieces on
> both sides of the spar, like the ribs from most of the other designs
> I've looked at. I'm inclined to go with the version from the full
> size plan, unless there's a good reason to do a vertical piece on each
> side of the spar?
>
> Oh!, another question, I saw a message a while back about die cutting
> gussets, but I can't find it. Were can you get a die like this, and
> any idea how much it would cost?
>
> I saw Jack Phillips' plane at Oshkosh; simply gorgeous.
>
> Sorry about all the questions, I've been saving them up.. :)
>
> --
> David Case
> Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
> www.builddiary.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the compliments on my airplane.
Doc Hutcheson gave you good advice. Don't worry too much about making
the airfoil perfect. It will vary in between the ribs anyway, by as
much as half an inch due to fabric shrinkage, so a few sixteenths
difference on the ribs will make no real difference at all. Of much
more importance is to make all the ribs the same. Once I had made all
my ribs in the jig, I cut 2 pieces of spar material and stacked all the
ribs on those spars so I had a solid hunk of ribs. The I used a belt
sander to make them all exactly the same so there was no variation from
rib to rib. A good tool to use for such a task is a perma-grit 560 mm
(22") sanding block. I bought mine at OSH several years ago, but they
are also available through Aircraft Spruce.
Airplanes are not very precise, by their nature. You don't need to
worry about being so precise in your layout. Even the F-16 jet fighter
used a standard tolerance of +/- 1/32" on all but the most critical
dminesions.
Some things do matter, such as lining up your landing gear and rigging
your wings and tail surfaces so the plane will fly hands off straight
and level, and track straight on the ground. But even there, if your
wings are within 1/8" of each other, that is probably good enough. I
used a surveryor's transit to rig my wings, and got them within 1/16" of
each other. The plane flies true. That's really all that matters.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
I am trying to get started with building a Pietenpol by putting
together a wing rib jig. Perhaps I've been thinking too hard (very
likely), and I have my mind all in a twist over how to lay out the
shape of the wing on my board. I've seen all the warnings about not
using the full size rib plan because of stretching/shrinkage from the
printer...
So, I'm thinking, the rib is 5 feet long, so I'll need a 5 foot long
line drawn on my board, and all the good straight edges I know about
are 4 feet long (or a bit longer if you use a meter stick). So, will
it be precise enough just to move the straightedge along another foot,
and very carefully line it up with the previous mark, then finish the
job, or is there a better way? I guess I could lay down a chalk line,
but that seems very... non precise? I never took drafting in High
School, can you tell?
Any tips on drawing lines at 90 degrees to this original line? Other
than using a square, and then checking diagonals with other lines for
equal distance? Should I be this anal retentive? Especially when the
original wing was designed on the drawing room floor?
I suppose that most of the small errors above probably go away once
you drive in the nails and run the spline.
I also have been looking at the plans themselves which poses another
question. The original plan for the ribs does not show any vertical
pieces to attach to the spars, the spar only attaches to the ribs at
the top and bottom. The full size rib plan has vertical pieces on the
insides of the spars, and then some websites have vertical pieces on
both sides of the spar, like the ribs from most of the other designs
I've looked at. I'm inclined to go with the version from the full
size plan, unless there's a good reason to do a vertical piece on each
side of the spar?
Oh!, another question, I saw a message a while back about die cutting
gussets, but I can't find it. Were can you get a die like this, and
any idea how much it would cost?
I saw Jack Phillips' plane at Oshkosh; simply gorgeous.
Sorry about all the questions, I've been saving them up.. :)
--
David Case
Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
www.builddiary.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
| From: | "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com> |
Dave,
I have a couple of tips for you also.
1. You can snap a chalked string to draw a straight line, then pencil
over it with straight edges. Like others said, it's not that critical,
though it feels good to be precise.
2. Perpendicular lines can be determined using a compass (the
adjustable pencil and pointer compass tool, not the magnetic direction
finder). Simply set your compass points about some distance apart (say
3"), place a pencil mark on your straight line where you want to come
off perpendicularly. Place your compass point on the pencil mark, and
land you compass pencil on the straight line, and draw a short hash mark
to the left and right of the pencil mark (or your compass point) using
your compass pencil. Now you will have three little pencil lines in row
on your straight line (each hash should be 3" from the first mark).
Now, remove the compass and adjust it to some dimension greater than it
was (say 6"). Place the point of the compass onto one of the hash marks
you just drew, and scribe an arc from the 6 o'clock position to the 12
o'clock position. The arc will pass through the other hash mark if you
set the compass at 3" and 6". Now place the compass point on the other
hash mark and do the same. Be sure to swing the arc the other direction
this time, to pass the arc through the other hash mark. You should now
have two arcs intersecting each other (kind of like a clam shell).
Next, lay a straight edge through the two intersection points of the
arcs and it will pass through the first pencil mark where you want your
perpendicular line.
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged,
confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure
under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly
by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy.
Thank you.
==============================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
Based on what everyone else is saying - and what I believe to be true - using the
full size rib dwg shouldn't be a problem, so I wouldn't worry too much about
getting lines drawn perfectly straight, except as a reference... To check mine,
I had made an Autocad dwg and compared it to the full size dwg and there
was so little variance I went with the full size dwg just to make life simpler.
Taped it down the the table on one end, stretched it nice and tight, taped
it to the other... Then carefully tape it down all around making sure it's completely
flat. Then I taped wax paper over the whole thing and used jig blocks
screwed into the table. It helps to use small scraps of wax paper under the
glue joints of each rib but the whole thing is covered so if there are any leaks
you won't ruin the full size dwg.
I used a wallpaper steamer fit into a 4" round duct to steam the rib caps. Made
a bending jig out of a 4 x 4 with the nose rib shape cut into it - slide the
steamed ribs in, and clamp them down overnight. If you want I can send you a
sketch.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
One more note on the rib jig. Don't throw it away after you finish
building your ribs. If you ever have to do a repair it is very helpful
to have the original jig to work from. I had to repair one rib from my
forced landing last fall and it was easy to do with my old rib jig -
don't know what I would have done without it.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tmbrant1(at)netzero.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions.
Based on what everyone else is saying - and what I believe to be true -
using the full size rib dwg shouldn't be a problem, so I wouldn't worry
too much about getting lines drawn perfectly straight, except as a
reference... To check mine, I had made an Autocad dwg and compared it
to the full size dwg and there was so little variance I went with the
full size dwg just to make life simpler. Taped it down the the table on
one end, stretched it nice and tight, taped it to the other... Then
carefully tape it down all around making sure it's completely flat.
Then I taped wax paper over the whole thing and used jig blocks screwed
into the table. It helps to use small scraps of wax paper under the
glue joints of each rib but the whole thing is covered so if there are
any leaks you won't ruin the full size dwg.
I used a wallpaper steamer fit into a 4" round duct to steam the rib
caps. Made a bending jig out of a 4 x 4 with the nose rib shape cut
into it - slide the steamed ribs in, and clamp them down overnight. If
you want I can send you a sketch.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
So I should cancel my "rib jig burning party"? I ended up making extra
ribs for the following reasons: I selected the best ones to use to
build with, and I used others for destructive testing of the joints (I
broke them). I still have a few left that I suppose are good for
spares. Builder report: Have wings wood work 95% complete, have leading
edge plywood on and sanded, trailing edges on and sanded, need to flip
wing over to finish bottom surface of ailerons and any 1/16" plywood
patches on the bottom surface. Thank you all who helped me through my
wing building summer. I would not have completed these as fast without
your help.
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged,
confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure
under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly
by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy.
Thank you.
==============================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi all,
The material that I found for the tail pieces is only 3/4 thick, so when
building the main beams I would like to build the shape with a 1 X 1/4 piece
and a 7/8 X 5/8 piece. I would then put a 1/8 deep X 5/8 wide slot in the
1/4 piece then glue the two pieces together. The only problem I see with
this is when I go to put the 1/8 plywood stiffener for the hinges in, I will
be cutting all the way through the 1/4 pieces in the middle of the board
where the 1/8 x 5/8 slots are. I hope I explained this well enough to get
some good answers. If the glue joint is supposed to be stronger than the
wood then this should not be a problem. Could aluminum be used for the
stiffeners?
Thanks
Nick H
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Welcome to the list, Dave.
I have just begun building my Pietenpol this year, and like you, I began
with the rib jig.
I work with CAD every day, so I redrew the wing rib on the computer, and
plotted it out, full size, on a big hunk of paper. I went to Home Depot
and bought a piece of 3/4" MDF that they called a "shelf board" (pre-cut
12" x 96", at a cost of CDN$5). This was very flat and smooth, and had a
nice straight edge that was eight feet long (there's a cheap
straightedge for you - at least good enough for what you need it for).
Then I tried to figure out a way to transfer the plotted wing rib onto
the board, and was not happy with any of my ideas, so I decided to go
back to the old-fashioned way - I decided to "loft" or, just measure and
draw the rib on the board. I cut the board down to about 5 1/2 feet, and
drew a straight line parallel to one edge, about 2" up (datum line).
Then, running a regular old combination square along the straight edge
of the MDF board, I made my perpendicular lines (at the proper spacings
as shown on the plans). From this I was able to plot the rib profile. I
used some french curves to get nice smooth lines, but probably the best
method would have been to use a thin strip of wood. Then I drew the
entire rib on the board, using pencil, and for no reason other than
because I wanted to, I colored in the capstrip locations. I cut a bunch
of small plywood rectangles, which I screwed into position at a bunch of
locations around the profile. I took a short length of 1 1/4" hardwood
dowel, and cut a bunch of 7/16" thick slices. I drilled holes off-center
through the discs, and used these as cams. The other thing I did was
that I bent up strips of 1/8" thick aluminum to make clamps to hold my
gussets in place while the glue sets. As you can see in the attached
picture, I have threaded rods sticking out of the board, to provide the
holding power for these gusset clamps. The threaded rods are set into
blind nuts, or tee-nuts on the back side of the board, and I used wing
nuts to adjust the clamping pressure. The pressure to be applied when
gluing is minimal - just enough to hold it in place - you don't want to
starve the glue joint.
Okay, I went a bit overboard on the rib jig. But I had fun making it.
My first couple of ribs I had to deal with a bit of glue runout, which
makes the rib stick to the jig. Some people use Saran Wrap, or other
plastic films, or waxed paper, and some use other techniques. I did some
reading (Tony Bingelis' books) and came to the realization that the
gusset does all the work in holding these rib bits together. The butt
joints of the spruce do not even need to be glued. It's the gusset that
counts. So I load my sticks into my jig, apply my cams, and mix up my
epoxy. While the glue is doing its thing, I get all my gussets laid out
in their approximate positions. Then I apply a thin (1/32"?) layer of
the epoxy to the entire back side of the gusset (this will be a benefit
when it comes time to seal all the wood before covering, as your
gussets, when on both sides of your rib will form tiny, hard to reach
pockets, that you won't really enjoy sticking a small paint brush into
390 times). When the gusset is placed in proper position over the joint,
I apply my gusset clamp - just enough pressure to hold it in place. I
let the whole mess sit for at least a day, then take it out of the jig.
Then I reload the jig, and repeat the above process, but also install
the gussets on the back side of rib #1. And before I put the back
gussets in place, I apply a very thin layer of epoxy to the edges of the
spruce that will be inside those "pockets" I mentioned before. I didn't
use any clamps to hold the gussets on the back side, just layed the rib
flat till the glue set.
I think the most important thing about your rib jig is that you make
sure that it will provide consistant ribs, and that your spars are
located properly (parallel and at proper spacing). If you decide to use
the full size rib plan, check the spacing of the spars - they might be
off.
So, stop thinking too hard, and start building!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Case
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions.
I am trying to get started with building a Pietenpol by putting together
a wing rib jig. Perhaps I've been thinking too hard (very likely), and
I have my mind all in a twist over how to lay out the shape of the wing
on my board. I've seen all the warnings about not using the full size
rib plan because of stretching/shrinkage from the printer...
...
...
...
Sorry about all the questions, I've been saving them up.. :)
--
David Case
Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
www.builddiary.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail main beams |
I think I understand what you're saying... I did something similar except without
slotting the 1/4 piece. I wouldn't bother slotting it - just line it up and
glue the pieces together. I tried making this out of one piece and the two
piece version turned out more consistent.
As for cutting through the 1/4" piece - not completely sure what you mean, but
as you say, the glue is stronger than the wood anyway. My stiffeners (gussets)
went on inside the 1/4" piece, then the 1/4" gets sanded to match level of gussets.
Hopefully that makes sense.
My $0.02
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail main beams |
I had Wicks make all the shapes for the tail beams according to plans. Cost like
$ 1.60 per linear foot. Saved a lot of work and cutter buying on my part.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail main beams
Hi all,
The material that I found for the tail pieces is only 3/4 thick, so when
building the main beams I would like to build the shape with a 1 X 1/4 piece and
a 7/8 X 5/8 piece. I would then put a 1/8 deep X 5/8 wide slot in the 1/4
piece then glue the two pieces together. The only problem I see with this is
when I go to put the 1/8 plywood stiffener for the hinges in, I will be cutting
all the way through the 1/4 pieces in the middle of the board where the 1/8
x 5/8 slots are. I hope I explained this well enough to get some good answers.
If the glue joint is supposed to be stronger than the wood then this should
not be a problem. Could aluminum be used for the stiffeners?
Thanks
Nick H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... |
Do you mind sharing with us the brand name of the paint?...Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight, latex paint...
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest. Does anyone know of
> a
> plane being covered with Stitts process through silver and then latex as
> the
> final coat? Are they compatible?
>
> I bought my latex recently and thought I was going to have to get "tough"
> with the sales person because she first started out by telling me that I
> should go to an automotive paint supply store because the latex was just
> going to peel off. After reading the label about how tenacious their
> premium paint was and I smiled and told her I would take that chance, she
> then told me the company would not allow her to sell it to me to use on an
> airplane. I smiled and showed her the color I wanted. She then said she
> didn't think they had any of the correct base. I smiled and asked if she
> would mind looking as I only needed one gallon. She finally gave in and
> mixed the color. Whew...
>
> Ted
> Trying to finish a Piet while dodging hurricanes
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Video Now Available: Flying NX770CG |
After going through a steep learning curve, I finally got this Pinacle
Video Editing program to work long enough to finish the video I've been working
on, and I've burned half dozen copies.
The first 15 minutes are a detailed look at my plane. Then start, taxi,
take-off sceenes from 5 or 6 different camera angles. Then sceenes of the
'Smokin' Pietenpol. The smoke makes some neat vorticies for the camera angle
looking aft. I have lots of aerial sceens of some cross country flights, sceenes
of Hot Air Balloons, the 'River Run', and finally sceenes of the landing
sequence. It lasts 1hr 50 minutes. I have genaric music dubbed in in various
places, to take the place of the drum of the engine. I think It turned out
pretty good, but it is an ongoing project. I'm curious to find out what others
think, and how I could improve it. I will sell this Version 1 video for 15 bucks
each. E-mail me direct for my address to send the money if you're interested.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Video Now Available: Flying NX770CG |
Do you have a PayPal account Chuck?
Rick
On 9/21/05, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> After going through a steep learning curve, I finally got this Pinacle
> Video Editing program to work long enough to finish the video I've been
> working on, and I've burned half dozen copies.
> The first 15 minutes are a detailed look at my plane. Then start, taxi,
> take-off sceenes from 5 or 6 different camera angles. Then sceenes of the
> 'Smokin' Pietenpol. The smoke makes some neat vorticies for the camera angle
> looking aft. I have lots of aerial sceens of some cross country flights,
> sceenes of Hot Air Balloons, the 'River Run', and finally sceenes of the
> landing sequence. It lasts 1hr 50 minutes. I have genaric music dubbed in in
> various places, to take the place of the drum of the engine. I think It
> turned out pretty good, but it is an ongoing project. I'm curious to find
> out what others think, and how I could improve it. I will sell this Version
> 1 video for 15 bucks each. E-mail me direct for my address to send the money
> if you're interested.
> Chuck Gantzer
> NX770CG
>
--
Rick Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Guys-- this is from a nearby pilot friend who asked me to post his 'for
sale' antique Pietenpol he has available. I have not seen the project
but the description below should help. Please e-mail Joe at
leonardj(at)apk.net or call him at 330-527-2307 if you are interested or have
questions.
Photos are not available at the moment, but Joe thinks a friend may have
some on file. Joe is a good guy---honest, easy to get along with. He flew
a GN-1 for many years and has had it to Brodhead, so he knows the Piet
world well. See you, Mike C.
Hey Mike,
I greatly appreciate you help in posting this.
Pietenpol Project.
There is an article in the 1965 Sport Aviation Mag. which says the plane
was originally built by Stan Richards in Hoytville, Ohio in 1931. (The Fun
Flying Farmer)
There are some writings on the back of the prop that indicate some prop
work was done in 1941.
I acquired the project several years ago out of a barn in the Toledo area,
but I've come to the conclusion that I probably will never get the chance
to complete the project partially due to the health problems I've had to
deal with. I'm sure there are some Piet fans out there that would love to
have it. And I'm trying to get my other one back in the air one day!
The fuselage is on gear but is probably good for patterns. It's a Scout
type gear with the old clinch rims.
I have the horizontal stab with the elevators, the vertical stab with rudder.
The article claims the engine is a model T engine, I'm not sure. I've never
opened up the engine but I' guessing it's good for parts.
The radiator is a honey comb style, kind of neat.
The instruments consist of a Dixie Mag Switch, possibly off of a Jenny.
Oil pressure gauge US. Army Type B
Tach, 4" diameter, SignalCorps US. Army Type C1
Karl Ort Temp gauge.
Altimeter, Aviation Section, signal corp. US Army Type B, 3 1/2" dial, 4
1/2" total
As I had mentioned Frank Pavliga took some digitals of it and I've asked
him to forward them to you.
My asking price is $2500. I'm told that the instruments are worth close to
that.
Thanks for the help. My email is leonardj @ apk.net Shop phone no.
330-527-2307 Garrettsville, Ohio.
Talk at ya soon.
Joe Leonard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Case <dav3xor(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | New Subscriber, Wing Rib Jig Questions. |
Thanks for all the replies! I got some good information in off-list
emails as well.
I am still going to lay out the jig from coordinates, mostly because
I'm still waiting for my wood to get here, and it'll make me feel like
I'm getting started.
I have a 12"x5.5' piece of particle board shelving material (covered
in melamine) that I'm going to use as the base. I am going to
probably use the same stuff for blocks (I have a couple feet left
over). I'll use circular cams (like in the Bingelis books) to push
the stock against the blocks.
Oh, and I very likely might use Max Davis' rib extractor idea, that
thing is way cool.
--
David Case
Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
www.builddiary.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | DF weight, latex paint... |
Carl,
It is Sherwin Williams. This seems to be the latex that I kept running into
whenever someone had tried it.
Ted
> From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight, latex paint...
>
>
> Do you mind sharing with us the brand name of the paint?...Carl Vought
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weight, latex paint...
>
>
> >
> >
> > I have been following this discussion with interest. Does anyone know
of
> > a
> > plane being covered with Stitts process through silver and then latex as
> > the
> > final coat? Are they compatible?
> >
> > I bought my latex recently and thought I was going to have to get
"tough"
> > with the sales person because she first started out by telling me that I
> > should go to an automotive paint supply store because the latex was just
> > going to peel off. After reading the label about how tenacious their
> > premium paint was and I smiled and told her I would take that chance,
she
> > then told me the company would not allow her to sell it to me to use on
an
> > airplane. I smiled and showed her the color I wanted. She then said
she
> > didn't think they had any of the correct base. I smiled and asked if
she
> > would mind looking as I only needed one gallon. She finally gave in and
> > mixed the color. Whew...
> >
> > Ted
> > Trying to finish a Piet while dodging hurricanes
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "clem" <clam(at)snap.net.nz> |
The two New Zealanders - Clem & Dave - drove across USA in a rental car, 5550 miles.
We met some wonderful people during our trip . A special thanks to Carl
and Ann Lekven for their offers of hospitality. We met amazing people at Brodhead.
It was great to meet the people I have followed on this site over the
years. I loved Lowell Frank's radial engined Piet.
Regards
Clem Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
I've got my rib stiching technique down, having just finished the tail feathers.
Now I'm ready to start the wings and would appreciate any helpful suggestions.
My basic plan is to prop one up on edge and with a helper on each side, pass
the needles through back and forth. This sounds good, but I'm not sure how
the person can find the hole on the other side as they pass the needle through.
I've been advised to do three needles/ribs at the same time, which makes
a lot of sense.
I know once we start, we'll figure these things out, but I like to stand on anyone's
shoulders whenver possible.
Thanks, hope you're all well!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hi Douwe,
I assume you will pre-punch all your needle holes before beginning
rib-lacing? That makes it much easier. If you have a bright light
shining on the surface it will make it easier for the person on the
other side to find the hole.
I stitched mine by myself, with the wing resting falt on saw horses.
That makes it easier in one way, because the person looking for the
needle is also manipulating the needle. However, moving back and forth
from above the wing to below the wing gets pretty hard on your back. I
stitched the first wing in 12 hours continuous work, just stopping for
beer (input and output). The next morning I could hardly get out of
bed. The second wing took about 3 days, with shorter work intervals
(and longer breaks).
For all the talk on the list about trying to find alternatives to
rib-stitching, I found it to be an enjoybale part of the building
process.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
I've got my rib stiching technique down, having just finished the tail
feathers. Now I'm ready to start the wings and would appreciate any
helpful suggestions. My basic plan is to prop one up on edge and with a
helper on each side, pass the needles through back and forth. This
sounds good, but I'm not sure how the person can find the hole on the
other side as they pass the needle through. I've been advised to do
three needles/ribs at the same time, which makes a lot of sense.
I know once we start, we'll figure these things out, but I like to stand
on anyone's shoulders whenver possible.
Thanks, hope you're all well!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Douwe-- good to hear you've got the hang of stitching.
I did not have anyone around to help and simply had the wing panels on saw
horses with a trouble light clamped to a five gallon bucket
below with wing, pointing up thru the fabric. This let me see the opposing
hole/mark very well. (with all pre-punched holes you can
see quite well inside the wing and where your needles are at.
I did one rib at a time since I only had one needle but it went fairly
quickly. I think I took about 35-45 minutes per rib.
I hope you're using the hidden knot method as this makes your tapes lay
down really nice and smooth over each rib with no air bubbles
or big bumps from the knots/lace cord. Totally a matter of aesthetics,
but I found it to be so little extra work that I went that route.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
When we stitched ours, I hung the wings from the ceiling in a sling. This allowed
me to vertically move the wing to where it was comfortable, little back bending.
I laid out the stitching pattern on one rib and transfer ed that pattern with a
flexible stick, about 1/4" thick and 1" wide. I didn't pre-punch holes.
I had a friend work the lower side of the wing, or essentially the return side
of the stitch. I did the knot on the upper surface. All-in-all it came out pretty
good for the first time.
The first wing took two of us 9 hours with one lunch break, we were able to cut
that to 8 hours on the second wing. From what I hear, this is pretty much the
average time needed to accomplish this task.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | tailwheel school opens in Florida.... |
for any in central Florida interested in getting TW time or sign-offs.
Mike C.
http://www.cubair.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel endorsements |
For those in Northeast Pennsylvania and Southern NY. Charlie Gay at Skyhaven Airport
in Tuncanock, PA gives tailwheel endorsements in a J-3.
I found it pretty tough to find someone that would give the training and let me
solo. You can solo the J-3 at Skyhaven.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | OFF LIST Friends near road 45 to Dallas HELP Do |
not archive.
Dear Friends,
I am asking you a BIG favor... my youngest daughter (15) now visiting with
my Sister in Law in Houston are going out to Dallas because of Rita...
Well, they left Missouri City (South of Houston) and 10.00 PM last night, today
(22) at 9:00 am (Last time that could contact by cell phone) they were still
in North Houston Area!!!! 11 hrs later., not even out of Houston!
They have a place to stay with friends in Dallas, They carry some water (how much?
dont know) and snacks, but at this driving speed, I dont know when they
could reach Dallas.... The Cell phones sends me to the message area, no answer.
(I know to much calls form all over, to much for the system).
Yes I am woried, VERY Woried The biggest problem I see is gasoline for the minivan
... and maybe some drinking water or food... so they can continue.
Please, If some of you live near 45, I will appreciate you phone number off list.
I will try to contact them by their cel phone...
If you give them some gasoline or food or what ever, I will gladly pay you for
the expenses.from here, I know is not going to be easy to find them, But this
is the only thing I can think off.
I am sure this is going to be a real problem not only for my family but to all
the people from Galveston and Houston there...
Help as you can (all of this people) they need it and they can do nothing more
there but keep driving for their lifes... Then drive back to see what they
find about their houses. Hope Rita loose force and do as low damage as possible...
Thank you all in advance.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | tail hinge stiffeners |
Hi all,
Could aluminum be used in the place of the 1/8" ply where the hinges mount
on the tail. I have a bunch of aluminum handy.
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <wbeevans(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Douwe,
I did mine all myself. Guess it took alittle longer, but this way I could start
and stop when needed. The leading and trailing edge where it wasn't under cambered,
did with a long needle. Since the under cambered /under wing has to be
done before the final tightening at full temp, I just stood the wing up against
a wall resting on the leading edge, and used a curved needle to stitch the
material right to the rib. (Not all the way thru). This sucked the material into
the rib curve. I'm very pleased the way it came out.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
I've got my rib stiching technique down, having just finished the tail feathers.
Now I'm ready to start the wings and would appreciate any helpful suggestions.
My basic plan is to prop one up on edge and with a helper on each side,
pass the needles through back and forth. This sounds good, but I'm not sure
how the person can find the hole on the other side as they pass the needle through.
I've been advised to do three needles/ribs at the same time, which makes
a lot of sense.
I know once we start, we'll figure these things out, but I like to stand on anyone's
shoulders whenver possible.
Thanks, hope you're all well!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video Now Available: Flying NX770CG |
In a message dated 9/21/2005 8:01:49 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Do you have a PayPal account Chuck?
Rick
No, I haven't got a PayPal account. Wouldn't even know how to set one up.
That's why I figured anyone who is interested could just e-mail me directly,
and send a Check, or Money Order to my home address, along with your return
address, and I'll get the DVD video out in the mail to you. Like I said, this
is
an ongoing project, and I thought I'd send out this Version 1 at the
introductory price of $15, and get some feedback on how I might improve the video.
I
have lots of stuff in mind to add, but I need some input from others, because
so far, I'm the only one who has ever seen the entire video !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Video Now Available: Flying NX770CG |
Thought I read that if I requested you would send me your address so I could
send you a famous La Hot check for your video. Still haven't heard from you.
Corky (Still dry in NW Louisiana)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRANSFER PUNCHES |
I just got a Harbor Freight catalog today and the Transfer Punches are on sale
for $ 4.99.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirk Huizenga <kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> |
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Douwe,
When I helped with someone else's wing, under the supervision of a
master rib stitcher (he has taught classes at OSH), I learned to look
through the hole above the one being used to pass the needle through.
You need to have all your holes pre-punched and it seems to work best if
the item you are stitching vertical with a bright light illuminating
both sides. It takes a little practice to figure out where your eye
needs to be (it is pretty close to the fabric) and how to look down and
across at the opposing hole. If this doesn't make sense I'll try to
explain it more clearly and with some pictures later.
Kirk
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I've got my rib stiching technique down, having just finished the tail
> feathers. Now I'm ready to start the wings and would appreciate any
> helpful suggestions. My basic plan is to prop one up on edge and with
> a helper on each side, pass the needles through back and forth. This
> sounds good, but I'm not sure how the person can find the hole on the
> other side as they pass the needle through. I've been advised to do
> three needles/ribs at the same time, which makes a lot of sense.
>
> I know once we start, we'll figure these things out, but I like to
> stand on anyone's shoulders whenver possible.
>
> Thanks, hope you're all well!!
>
> Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Well, having just learned how to rib stitch myself, I will say that I did it
the way Corky had originally done it on the vertical stab... marked the
stitch locations and then fired up my pointy little soldering iron to melt
little holes in the fabric at each stitch location. Made it real easy to
see through and pass the needle through, and super easy to pull in the knots
to hide them. I didn't even try NOT pre-punching the holes and it would
seem to me to be a lot harder to pull the knots inside to hide them if you
don't pre-punch.
Did the same thing with the bolt holes... melted them through the fabric
with my soldering iron prior to Poly-Spray and Poly-Tone. Turned out swell.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Case <dav3xor(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Making a line longer than your straight edge, Oshkosh |
pictures
I was wandering around the hardware store, trying to find an aluminum
extrusion at least 5 feet long (thanks for the idea btw) not
succeeding... Then it came to me, inspiration! What defines a line?
2 points! My jig board is 5.5 feet long, so if I drill 2 holes, both
19 inches from the long ends, then put a nail in each hole (the nail
being slightly wider than the hole, so it fits very snugly) I can put
my yardstick on the nails and move it back and forth enough to draw
one continuous line from one end of the board to the other. It worked
really well too.
If anyone is interested, I have a few pictures I took at Oshkosh of
that Sky Scout wing that people were talking about a few weeks ago
(the one with the 1/4" x 1/4" cap strips) on my website
(www.builddiary.net). Just follow the links on the left. Also a
few shots of Icarus Plummet and the original pietenpol they have on
display.
--
David Case
Dav3xor(at)gmail.com
www.builddiary.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Douwe,
It's pretty easy to make additional Long Needles, out of a piece of steel
welding rod of the appropriate diameter. Just taper a long sharp point on one
end, and flatten the other end with the hammer and anvil, then drill a hole in
the flattened end to pass the thread through.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail hinge stiffeners |
In a message dated 9/22/2005 2:48:24 PM Central Standard Time,
nharris25(at)yahoo.com writes:
Could aluminum be used in the place of the 1/8" ply where the hinges mount on
the tail. I have a bunch of aluminum handy.
I would have to say No. Moisture will collect between the aluminum & wood,
and it just isn't going to use up much of your scrap. It's just too easy to
follow the plans method here.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Rebuild Webpage |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Just stumbled across this webpage with a bunch of photos detailing the
rebuild of a Piet.
http://www.wardsauctions.com/images/Pietenpol/index.htm
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Clarke" <chrise3a(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | New to List - Questions on Glueing |
Hi Everyone,
I am new to the list and have just started building my piet. I was quite
inspired by the video by Michael Cuy. Amazing job on that airplane Michael.
I have just a few questions on glueing which I'm certain has been asked
enough already.
First, I am using T-88 Epoxy for all the glueing. I have laid up the
fuselage side and am ready to glue the first side. How have people mixed
this stuff before? It says 1:1 mixture, so have people used scales or just
graduated mixing cups. My thought was to use the 4 oz. graduated mixing
cups, but will that be accurate enough or should I use a scale. Of course
the most appropriate and accurate mixture is what I am trying to achieve.
Second, in terms of pressure for the T-88 to set, I think it is just enough
pressure to keep firm contact and squeeze out a bit on the sides. Is this
correct Anyway I thank anyone for their input on this
Cheers,
Chris Clarke
PS: I am trying to post regular progress on mykitplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi guys,
I want to thank you all for the excellent ideas. It's time like this that the
group really shines, real "hands on" ideas!! I'm getting the hang of it, I havn't
tried the soldering gun thing, but think I will, plus that would really let
me see through the hole easily.
And Mike, yes I am hiding the knots!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to List - Questions on Glueing |
Welcome to the list Chris,
I use small medicine cups that I bought at an independant pharmacy to
measure my T-88. Most of the quantities you will mix will be much
smaller than 4 ounces at at time. These cups I'm talking about only
hold about an ounce, but they have graduations on the sides that make it
possible to mix up varying quantities evenly. I also have a site on
mykitplanes, if you want to check my progress. You will find loads of
good information with this group and in the archives. I nailed my
gussets in place using aircraft nails until the glue hardened (overnight)
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Chris Clarke wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I am new to the list and have just started building my piet. I
> was quite inspired by the video by Michael Cuy. Amazing job on that
> airplane Michael. I have just a few questions on glueing which I'm
> certain has been asked enough already.
>
> First, I am using T-88 Epoxy for all the glueing. I have laid up
> the fuselage side and am ready to glue the first side. How have
> people mixed this stuff before? It says 1:1 mixture, so have people
> used scales or just graduated mixing cups. My thought was to use the 4
> oz. graduated mixing cups, but will that be accurate enough or should
> I use a scale. Of course the most appropriate and accurate mixture is
> what I am trying to achieve.
>
> Second, in terms of pressure for the T-88 to set, I think it is just
> enough pressure to keep firm contact and squeeze out a bit on
> the sides. Is this correct Anyway I thank anyone for their input on this
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris Clarke
>
> PS: I am trying to post regular progress on mykitplane.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | cockpit entrance door |
I have installed a cockpit entrance door or what I call a flop door
which is hinged to the wing just behind the top gas tank.I was wondering
if anyone had one of these and what they used to latch it down.I have
all kinds of ideas but I'd like to see what others have done as
well,thanks for any info passed along.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to List - Questions on Glueing |
Graduated mixing cups or syringes work well. Weighing is unnecessary.
Do not mix in waxed cups. The wax will weaken the glue joint.
You are correct regarding the gluing pressure. Just enough to maintain
tight contact of the assembly. Watch closely after clamping, the T-88
is slippery and your assembly might move around before the adhesive has a chance
to set.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Clarke
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to List - Questions on Glueing
Hi Everyone,
I am new to the list and have just started building my piet. I was quite inspired
by the video by Michael Cuy. Amazing job on that airplane Michael. I have
just a few questions on glueing which I'm certain has been asked enough already.
First, I am using T-88 Epoxy for all the glueing. I have laid up the fuselage
side and am ready to glue the first side. How have people mixed this stuff before?
It says 1:1 mixture, so have people used scales or just graduated mixing
cups. My thought was to use the 4 oz. graduated mixing cups, but will that be
accurate enough or should I use a scale. Of course the most appropriate and
accurate mixture is what I am trying to achieve.
Second, in terms of pressure for the T-88 to set, I think it is just enough pressure
to keep firm contact and squeeze out a bit on the sides. Is this correct
Anyway I thank anyone for their input on this
Cheers,
Chris Clarke
PS: I am trying to post regular progress on mykitplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | New to List - Questions on Glueing |
Chris,
I measured mine T-88 by squeezing out equal lengths on a ceramic tile. Mixed
it up with plastic picnic knives. Use two or more =93lines=94 of each for more
glue!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Clarke
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to List - Questions on Glueing
Hi Everyone,
I am new to the list and have just started building my piet. I was quite
inspired by the video by Michael Cuy. Amazing job on that airplane Michael.
I have just a few questions on glueing which I'm certain has been asked
enough already.
First, I am using T-88 Epoxy for all the glueing. I have laid up the
fuselage side and am ready to glue the first side. How have people mixed
this stuff before? It says 1:1 mixture, so have people used scales or just
graduated mixing cups. My thought was to use the 4 oz. graduated mixing
cups, but will that be accurate enough or should I use a scale. Of course
the most appropriate and accurate mixture is what I am trying to achieve.
Second, in terms of pressure for the T-88 to set, I think it is just enough
pressure to keep firm contact and squeeze out a bit on the sides. Is this
correct Anyway I thank anyone for their input on this
Cheers,
Chris Clarke
PS: I am trying to post regular progress on mykitplane.com
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: trimble instructions |
Pieters: I bought a trimble flightmate pro gps at a fly market and would
like to get some instructions on operating it. I have gone thru $8.00
worth of battries but need some instructions before I go broke. I tried Trimble
on the internet but got lost before I found what I needed. Any help would
be appreciated. Ken Conrad in depressed Iowa after playing Ohio State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
DJ Vegh of Mesa, Arizona built a nifty cockpit door on his GN-1. He has an
extensive builder's log on the internet and I think there are several pictures
of his cockpit door. Doo a Google search for DJ VEGH GN-1 LOG.
Forgot his website... One of his e-mail addresses is _info(at)imagedv.com_
(mailto:info(at)imagedv.com) , but I think he abandoned the project and dropped out
of sight not answering e-mails and he is selling his airplane... so I don't
know how much longer his builder's log will be available on-line.
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
_http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/GN1-log-001.html_
(http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/GN1-log-001.html)
DJ Vegh's extensive log... Might find the info on the door here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: trimble instructions |
Ken,
If you didn't get an operators manual, or a 12v adapter, you might be outa
luck.
I have a Magellan Skyblazer, but it is not supported any longer by Magellan,
and upgrades are no longer available. It works just fine, but upgrades like
frequencies, FBO's, and lots of other stuff have to be confirmed from the
airport directories. This seems to be common among all older GPS units, no matter
what make. They want us to buy new ones. My Magellan GPS runs on three D
cell batteries, but they don't last very long, and it crapped out on me quite a
few times during cross country flights. It's not possible for me to change
batteries in flight. That's why my primary navigation aid will ALWAYS be the
good old charts, and a highlighter. I have since added a 12v battery to run the
GPS, Icom Handheld com radio, and the smoke pump. Ever since I put the GPS on
the 12v battery, I have been able to use it to navigate with, and it has not
let me down. I can program in the departure, way points, and destination, but
the thing is, I really had to be in the air, and using it, before I really
understood how it works, and got a handle on using it. Another problem I have
with the GPS is that when it is turned on, it interferes with the handheld
radio reception. I will try a remote antenna on the handheld to see if that helps.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Irwin Fust <ifust(at)digitalpath.net> |
Hello folks,
I am the proud new owner of a Pietenpol project and I am also new to
this list. My Piet is about 70% complete and I'm trying to make some
decisions on how to proceed with its completion. I've never built an
airplane before and I don't know what the heck I'm doing but I'm
plugging along. With enough time, patience and acquired knowledge I
hope to be flying it in about a year. The plane was originally built
for a Ford engine (163 inches long) but now has a Cont. A65-8 on it. I
plan on changing the tailwheel to either a Lang steerable or a Raven
lockable wheel. Question: Has anyone on the list had any experience
with the lockable wheel and will it work well on the Pietenpol?
Thanks for any advice you can give. I have been told that there is a
lot of Pietenpol knowledge on this list. I hope to tap into it and
make my plane a safer aircraft when finished.
By the way, my other plane is a 1946 Aeronca Chief that I've flown all
around the west coast for the past 4 years. My home field is Red
Bluff, CA and there is another Piet on the field. Luckily I have
something to fly while I finish the Pietenpol.
Thanks again,
Irwin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
I tried this three times in the last couple of hours with
"page could not be found" on all three tries.
This brings up a point. Here we have had a resource of photo
material which is now lost.
It seems to me that a third party site such as mykitplane is a
better bet than our own sites. Once photos are up they're not
likely to disappear if someone drops out, dies or whatever.
Another answer might be that some of us save all these images
to a disc file. I'm sure that others besides myself have saved
images of interest and that for each of us they would be, to
some extent, different ones.
There are more than 600 photos as well as drawings and articles
relating to Pietenpol construction and finished planes on mykitplane.
Quite a few of which are of older, foreign, and offline planes like the
"Limington series,Kin series,EM series, Doug Hunt series,Detail pictures(199)"
How many more are spread about all over the place?
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/GN1-log-001.html
DJ Vegh's extensive log... Might find the info on the door here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | cockpit entrance door |
Cliff,
Try the correct url=85http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/About.htm
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
I tried this three times in the last couple of hours with
"page could not be found" on all three tries.
This brings up a point. Here we have had a resource of photo
material which is now lost.
It seems to me that a third party site such as mykitplane is a
better bet than our own sites. Once photos are up they're not
likely to disappear if someone drops out, dies or whatever.
Another answer might be that some of us save all these images
to a disc file. I'm sure that others besides myself have saved
images of interest and that for each of us they would be, to
some extent, different ones.
There are more than 600 photos as well as drawings and articles
relating to Pietenpol construction and finished planes on mykitplane.
Quite a few of which are of older, foreign, and offline planes like the
"Limington series,Kin series,EM series, Doug Hunt series,Detail
pictures(199)"
How many more are spread about all over the place?
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
HYPERLINK
"http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/GN1-log-001.html"http://www.imagedv.co
m/aircamper/log/GN1-log-001.html
DJ Vegh's extensive log... Might find the info on the door here.
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hi Irwin,
Congratulations on acquiring a Pietenpol project. Sounds like you're
well on your way to getting it flying.
I've had no experience with a locking tailwheel, but I used to have a
Lang on a J-3 Cub. It was the best tailwheel I've ever flown. I had a
Maule on a Cessna 140 and had a world of trouble with it. I've had a
Scott and a ACS Homebuilder's special on my Pietenpol. Both have given
some trouble. When I finaly get tired of fooling with the
"Homebuilder's Special" I will put a Lang on the Piet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Irwin
Fust
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels
Hello folks,
I am the proud new owner of a Pietenpol project and I am also new to
this list. My Piet is about 70% complete and I'm trying to make some
decisions on how to proceed with its completion. I've never built an
airplane before and I don't know what the heck I'm doing but I'm
plugging along. With enough time, patience and acquired knowledge I
hope to be flying it in about a year. The plane was originally built
for a Ford engine (163 inches long) but now has a Cont. A65-8 on it. I
plan on changing the tailwheel to either a Lang steerable or a Raven
lockable wheel. Question: Has anyone on the list had any experience
with the lockable wheel and will it work well on the Pietenpol?
Thanks for any advice you can give. I have been told that there is a
lot of Pietenpol knowledge on this list. I hope to tap into it and
make my plane a safer aircraft when finished.
By the way, my other plane is a 1946 Aeronca Chief that I've flown all
around the west coast for the past 4 years. My home field is Red
Bluff, CA and there is another Piet on the field. Luckily I have
something to fly while I finish the Pietenpol.
Thanks again,
Irwin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
Try this one...
_http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm_
(http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm)
If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER.
His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's log.
You won't be disappointed.
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
-dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
Try this one...
http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm
If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH
AIRCAMPER.
His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's
log. You won't be disappointed.
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark <aerialphotos(at)dp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trimble instructions |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.599, required 3, autolearn=not spam,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
Wizzard187(at)aol.com wrote:
> Pieters: I bought a trimble flightmate pro gps at a fly market and
> would like to get some instructions on operating it. I have gone
> thru $8.00 worth of battries but need some instructions before I go
> broke. I tried Trimble on the internet but got lost before I found
> what I needed. Any help would be appreciated. Ken Conrad in
> depressed Iowa after playing Ohio State
Mine worked great as a basic GPS unit for a long time but its not
supported anymore. As far as your battery issue, its one of the big
weaknesses of the unit. What I did is buy rechargeables. Though they
only work for about 1/2 as long at a time, after you buy two sets or so,
you have enough to do what ever you like. Changing them in flight is
doable, but not really easy. If I was going to make a long trip, Id
throw in a fresh set of alkaline batteries before take off and never had
a problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
<8C790AB4849DA5F-ED0-19AA4@FWM-R36.sysops.aol.com>
Excellent web page however he doesn't show or give the hold down
mechanism for the door.I have fired off a letter to him about
this,thanks a million for the web site.
dmott9(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
>
> -dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
>
> The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
>
> Try this one...
>
> http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm
>
> If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH
> AIRCAMPER.
>
> His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's
> log. You won't be disappointed.
>
> Roy
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
Don't worry guys. I have not decided to sell the project or abandon the
website. I was merely considering what I might be able to get if I DID
sell.
And... even if I did sell the project the website would FOREVER remain. I
will never let that die.
About the cockpit door.... I believe there are somepics on my site which
show that. I have not yet engineered the latching machnism.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
>
> Excellent web page however he doesn't show or give the hold down
> mechanism for the door.I have fired off a letter to him about
> this,thanks a million for the web site.
>
> dmott9(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
> >
> > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
> >
> > -dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
> >
> > The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
> >
> > Try this one...
> >
> > http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm
> >
> > If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH
> > AIRCAMPER.
> >
> > His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's
> > log. You won't be disappointed.
> >
> > Roy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
<8C790AB4849DA5F-ED0-19AA4@FWM-R36.sysops.aol.com>
<433811E4.985DDF01(at)bell.ca>
<007301c5c2b3$8221e0c0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
I thought of just using ordinary door bolts at the ends where it could
bolt to the other wing ends(trailing edges).One of the other guys
suggested another hinge underneith at the under leading edge with a pin
to remove in order to flip the door.However someone else said that
unless the hinges where in a place of srength then it wouldn't be a real
good idea.Latches at the edges of either side of the under leading edge
is another idea.Latches at the trailing egde another idea.A dome button
for the top of my helmet to hold it down(just kidding)!A seat belt
connection at the trailing edge and just latch it in with the rest of
the belts(would cause some drag)(might even buzz behind the head and
drive one crazy).Clamps at either side of the trailing edge but it would
really look ugly.Still thinking on a way to do it.
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>
> Don't worry guys. I have not decided to sell the project or abandon the
> website. I was merely considering what I might be able to get if I DID
> sell.
>
> And... even if I did sell the project the website would FOREVER remain. I
> will never let that die.
>
> About the cockpit door.... I believe there are somepics on my site which
> show that. I have not yet engineered the latching machnism.
>
> DJ Vegh
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
>
> >
> > Excellent web page however he doesn't show or give the hold down
> > mechanism for the door.I have fired off a letter to him about
> > this,thanks a million for the web site.
> >
> > dmott9(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
> > >
> > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
> > >
> > > -dennis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com
> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
> > >
> > > The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
> > >
> > > Try this one...
> > >
> > > http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm
> > >
> > > If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH
> > > AIRCAMPER.
> > >
> > > His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's
> > > log. You won't be disappointed.
> > >
> > > Roy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
<8C790AB4849DA5F-ED0-19AA4@FWM-R36.sysops.aol.com>
<433811E4.985DDF01(at)bell.ca>
<007301c5c2b3$8221e0c0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
<4338217E.6B545410(at)bell.ca>
Believe it or not a cleaning guy just came in at work and I was
describing the situation to him and he said why not just use the latches
that are spring loaded with the bevelled latch either bolt type or the
flat type.I think at this point that's the best idea yet.Probably use
them at the trailing edge.They would just snap into place as the door
came down then all you have to do is pull in on the latch bolt handle on
either side upon egress.
"RULE, HARVEY" wrote:
>
>
> I thought of just using ordinary door bolts at the ends where it could
> bolt to the other wing ends(trailing edges).One of the other guys
> suggested another hinge underneith at the under leading edge with a pin
> to remove in order to flip the door.However someone else said that
> unless the hinges where in a place of srength then it wouldn't be a real
> good idea.Latches at the edges of either side of the under leading edge
> is another idea.Latches at the trailing egde another idea.A dome button
> for the top of my helmet to hold it down(just kidding)!A seat belt
> connection at the trailing edge and just latch it in with the rest of
> the belts(would cause some drag)(might even buzz behind the head and
> drive one crazy).Clamps at either side of the trailing edge but it would
> really look ugly.Still thinking on a way to do it.
>
> DJ Vegh wrote:
> >
> >
> > Don't worry guys. I have not decided to sell the project or abandon the
> > website. I was merely considering what I might be able to get if I DID
> > sell.
> >
> > And... even if I did sell the project the website would FOREVER remain. I
> > will never let that die.
> >
> > About the cockpit door.... I believe there are somepics on my site which
> > show that. I have not yet engineered the latching machnism.
> >
> > DJ Vegh
> > www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
> >
> > >
> > > Excellent web page however he doesn't show or give the hold down
> > > mechanism for the door.I have fired off a letter to him about
> > > this,thanks a million for the web site.
> > >
> > > dmott9(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
> > > >
> > > > -dennis
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Tuu2Tango(at)aol.com
> > > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
> > > >
> > > > The "cut and paste" from DJ Vegh's website clipped one letter.
> > > >
> > > > Try this one...
> > > >
> > > > http://imagedv.com/aircamperlog/GNa-log-003.htm
> > > >
> > > > If that doesn't work (sorry) just do a Google search for DJ VEGH
> > > > AIRCAMPER.
> > > >
> > > > His website beats anything I've seen online in regard to a builder's
> > > > log. You won't be disappointed.
> > > >
> > > > Roy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
I'm retired now but I've done much cleaning in my years. I have a drop
hinged door for the front pit. I am using spring loaded countersunk bullet
latches, forward and rear. Just push to open, pull to close with proper jams.
Ordered from McMaster.com
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
The flop door: If left without a latch, its trailing edge will float about
one inch above that of the wing. It only needs a few ounces of pressure to
hold it in place, so there is no need to overdo the latch mechanism. If you
lift it in flight, you begin a slow descent. If you remove it entirely,
there's a little extra turbulence in the rear cockpit. If you have a way to
lock it open while climbing into the cockpit and leave it up during takeoff,
you'll swear someone shortened the runway and grew taller trees. All from
experience.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit entrance door
>
>
> I have installed a cockpit entrance door or what I call a flop door
> which is hinged to the wing just behind the top gas tank.I was wondering
> if anyone had one of these and what they used to latch it down.I have
> all kinds of ideas but I'd like to see what others have done as
> well,thanks for any info passed along.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cockpit entrance door |
To hold the "flop" in trailing position, I use two round head wood screws at
the lower ends of the flop spar. Directly ahead of each screw, mounted on
the underside of the small center section spar, are two strips of thin steel
about 1/2" wide. These strips have a sort-of-joggle bend in them to engage
the screw heads, thus holding the flop in trailing position. It doesn't take
much to do this and one doesn't have to latch or unlatch anything.
Adjustment is easy by simply turning the screws in or out. (It is difficult
to describe this arrangement in words; a picture would be better and I hope
this is understandable.)
In addition, I installed a couple of wood screws in the aft lower face of
the small center section spar to act as stops to adjust the trailing
position of the flop.
Lifting the flop only slightly in flight will cause the nose to pitch down,
possibly because of turbulent airflow over the tail. In the trail position,
it seems to smooth out the airflow over the tail of my Pietenpol. With the
flop removed, my a/c tends to be a bit nose heavy leading me to suspect
there is some turbulence ahead of the horizontal tail surfaces. I suppose
tuft testing would tell the story, but I never bothered to do it.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | corvair heads / progress report |
Hey corvair people..
When doing a valve job, according the the WW manual, you are to use "wide seats".
Does this presume that for every valve job you're replacing the seats? Also,
what are people doing for valves? Using new, existing, stainless??
I found a local performance engine shop that is pretty good to work with, plus
it's 3 miles from my house so I can inspect things at each stage very easily.
Dropped the heads off tonight. WW has the crank, distributor and front starter
components in the works... Clarks has the cylinders, pistons, cam, etc.. Pretty
soon I'll have all the parts together for this thing and once I have the
engine completed, hopefully that will spur on the rest of the project.
Hopefully, by spring the engine will be ready to run and I'll have the fuselage
on gear. Then over the summer complete the wings. Man - if all goes well I
could get this thing done in 2-3 more years...
Sorry for the rant, just getting wound up again... Besides, tonight I flew the
172 and fuel at KMIC is 4.45 / gallon. That equals about $45 / hour in fuel
alone. OUCH. I'm setting the Piet up for Auto gas so at least I'll save a buck
a gallon.
Seeya,
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hi Irwin
I have the basic same set up as you. I have the Matco TW and I havent had
any problems with it. It is a bit heavy. You should start thinking about
your weight balance. We all have handled that in a variety of ways. I
built my motor mount 2 in longer than plan, added a 4 gal fuel header tank
behind the FW and added a 30 amp battery on the firewall. I'll let others
speak for themselves.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Irwin Fust" <ifust(at)digitalpath.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheels
>
> Hello folks,
> I am the proud new owner of a Pietenpol project and I am also new to this
> list. My Piet is about 70% complete and I'm trying to make some decisions
> on how to proceed with its completion. I've never built an airplane
> before and I don't know what the heck I'm doing but I'm plugging along.
> With enough time, patience and acquired knowledge I hope to be flying it
> in about a year. The plane was originally built for a Ford engine (163
> inches long) but now has a Cont. A65-8 on it. I plan on changing the
> tailwheel to either a Lang steerable or a Raven lockable wheel.
> Question: Has anyone on the list had any experience with the lockable
> wheel and will it work well on the Pietenpol?
>
> Thanks for any advice you can give. I have been told that there is a lot
> of Pietenpol knowledge on this list. I hope to tap into it and make my
> plane a safer aircraft when finished.
>
> By the way, my other plane is a 1946 Aeronca Chief that I've flown all
> around the west coast for the past 4 years. My home field is Red Bluff,
> CA and there is another Piet on the field. Luckily I have something to
> fly while I finish the Pietenpol.
> Thanks again,
> Irwin
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to List - Questions on Glueing |
Chris
Consider not installing the plywood on the sides until you get the fuselage framed
up and the controls installed. It worked great for me.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Clarke
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to List - Questions on Glueing
Hi Everyone,
I am new to the list and have just started building my piet. I was quite inspired
by the video by Michael Cuy. Amazing job on that airplane Michael. I have
just a few questions on glueing which I'm certain has been asked enough already.
First, I am using T-88 Epoxy for all the glueing. I have laid up the fuselage
side and am ready to glue the first side. How have people mixed this stuff before?
It says 1:1 mixture, so have people used scales or just graduated mixing
cups. My thought was to use the 4 oz. graduated mixing cups, but will that be
accurate enough or should I use a scale. Of course the most appropriate and
accurate mixture is what I am trying to achieve.
Second, in terms of pressure for the T-88 to set, I think it is just enough pressure
to keep firm contact and squeeze out a bit on the sides. Is this correct
Anyway I thank anyone for their input on this
Cheers,
Chris Clarke
PS: I am trying to post regular progress on mykitplane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
<8C790AB4849DA5F-ED0-19AA4@FWM-R36.sysops.aol.com>
OK, I've got it bookmarked-again.
when I bookmarked it before it titled itself
"sitemap" and I didn't rename it then forgot
and my Piet list is very large so when I didn't
see anything referring to DJ in there after trying
that url, well....
Nice to hear you're staying with us DJ.
Clif
>
> Try this one: (or just put in DJ VEGH AIRCAMPER into Google)
>
> http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htm
>
> -dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cockpit entrance door |
It sounds to me like there are two things being discussed under this same
subject line... one is latches for a side entrance door and the other is the
wing cutout 'flop'. On 41CC, the wing cutout flop comes up to the in-trail
position if left alone in flight and has very simple slide latches on the
underside of the trailing edge to keep it from lifting up to reflex.
Nothing complicated.
However, here's a thought (untested; just an idea). How about those
spring-loaded roller ball latches that are used for closet doors and bifold
doors? One of those on each side of the flop would be plenty of resistance
to hold the flop in place, yet a push upwards would pop the flop and let Pop
hop without a bop on his top ;o) And they are available in brass finish,
too...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: corvair heads / progress report |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
27, 2005) at 2005-09-27 16:39:32
Tom,
I would not replace the valve seats unless there are damaged or loose.
Just check the valve guide wear and replace valve guides if needed.
You can re-use existing valves if they are not worn out, just clean them up
real good.
Just re-grind / lap the valve and valve seats, you can do this yourself ,
with some lapping compound and tools from a auto parts store.
I choose to replace all moving parts, springs, retainers, stainless valves
and some of the valve guides.
Suggest you get a copy of Richard Finch's book on Corvair, it describes the
overhaul process more clearly than GM' shop manual (green book)
Plus it clearly shows what not to do with valve seats!
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
I need to know the distance (gap) between the aileron first rib and the wing.
The Sky Scout plans show 1/2". Same for the Air Camper? Thank you. Saludos
Santiago Morete
---------------------------------
1GB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam
Abr tu cuenta aqu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Landing Gear Alignment |
Guys,
I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels, but
had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side
load imposed on them when landing.
Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from a 182.
These should be rugged enough.
The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side seems
to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done some
alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be
dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured to
the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt
conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is without
touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had some
effect on the right side.
Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine,
just having this one last problem.
Thanks
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 08:58:21 AM
Lou,
I had the same problem with my first landing gear.
The problem is in geometry of hinge points at the fuselage, the front
attachments are slightly wider than the rear.
This can result in a toe-in unloaded, straight track half loaded and
toe-out at full load.
This all gets worse if bungees are weak, I found the bungees don't do much
the first inch of compression
I replaced the bungees with compression springs, see attached drawing.
And align wheels with slight toe-in.
Toe-out will cause tracking problems on runway at high speed.
To much toe-in will cause tire wear and drag when rolling.
You will still have a slight spreading when pushing it backwards but mostly
because the plane is lightly loaded (your not in it)
Hope this helps.
Hans
(See attached file: comp spring.pdf)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com |
27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 09:15:10 AM
Santiago,
I build my first aileron Rib with a 1/4 inch gap, used 1/4 ply as spacer.
But this pace quickly disappears when fabric is applied, this area sees at
least three layers or more due to folding and overlaps of the fabric.
My gap is now less than 1/16, it works, but if I had known I would have
started with 1/2 inch or perhaps 3/8.
Regards
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
Hans,
Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about the bungee arrangement. I really
don't seem to be getting mine tight enough and there is the question as to
whether they are equally tight. I like the spring arrangement. This could
be an over the winter project.
Thanks again.
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble with....It could
save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Lou Wither
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
Guys,
I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels, but
had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side
load imposed on them when landing.
Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from a
182. These should be rugged enough.
The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side
seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done
some alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be
dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured
to the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt
conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is without
touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had
some effect on the right side.
Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine,
just having this one last problem.
Thanks
Lou
________________________________________________________________________________
b$b82ca9d0$c3afd618@DJJYD981>
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Alignment |
I agree. We have cycle wheels and no problems after a few hundred
flight hours. The previous owner claimed that they were Honda 350
wheels, but they're not. They appear to be a hybrid dirt-street wheel
from the 60s or 70s. The tires are 3.00x17 or 3.5x17.
>Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble
>with....It could save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>Lou Wither
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
>Guys,
>
>I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle
>wheels, but had problems with the hubs breaking. They are
>insufficient to take the side load imposed on them when landing.
>
>Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and
>axles from a 182. These should be rugged enough.
>
>The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The
>right side seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear
>spreads. I have done some alignment work and have finally gotten
>the right gear and left gear to be dimesionally the same. I used a
>straight edge against the tire and measured to the fuselage when the
>plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt conduit held
>against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
>
>The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward.
>This is without touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening
>the left wheel had some effect on the right side.
>
>Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane
>flies fine, just having this one last problem.
>
>Thanks
>Lou
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead |
Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always wanting to know of problems with
other guys engines. I also have found over the years that there is a lot of
wrong info about events and problems. So, for any other Ford guys out there,
Ken Perkins DID have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the coupling.
He says it was a small piece of metal stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let
it enter the field. He has no idea where the metal came from, but once removed,
everything is fine.
Thought you'd wanna know, I did.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
Question
I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my
pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and
the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only
an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of
two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many
on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Question
I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my
pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and
the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the lower
left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join
into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only
an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction
of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as
many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Question
I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all
my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam
and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem,
No? I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly
through the joint attaching it to the horizontal.
Stevee
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Harris
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look
at the lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower
beam should join into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971
&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle <mailto:jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I
for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but
anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets
on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it
probably won't be an issue....
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris <mailto:nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Question
I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake.
After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the
junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it
should be. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Nelson <lnelson208(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead |
Thanks for that info. I fly an A powered Pietenpol
(Howard Hendersons), and was also interested in this
issue. The only issue I have had, I was previously
warned about, and it is magneto related, too. I asked
Joe Santana what the small diameter soft copper tube
was for, stowed loose alongside the pilots leg. It is
to spray WD 40 into the mag when the impulse isn't
clicking. Works everytime and starts right up. Now
that fall is here, I am going to be trying to get mo'
flyin' in.
--- Douwe Blumberg
wrote:
> Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always
> wanting to know of problems with other guys engines.
> I also have found over the years that there is a
> lot of wrong info about events and problems. So,
> for any other Ford guys out there, Ken Perkins DID
> have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the
> coupling. He says it was a small piece of metal
> stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let it enter the
> field. He has no idea where the metal came from,
> but once removed, everything is fine.
>
> Thought you'd wanna know, I did.
>
> Douwe
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Cessna 195 N9883A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
I did when this pic was taken. Since then I cut it down closer to finish length.
The bolt was one of my concerns also, but the front bolt bolt holes go through
the joint also. Maybe it would be best to just make a new one.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem, No?
I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly through the joint
attaching it to the horizontal.
Stevee
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Harris
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:46 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the
lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join
into the tail post. I have it just the opposite.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have
only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction
of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as
many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue....
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Harris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab
Question
I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all
my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam
and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Nick Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
Nick,
If you use birch plywood gussets at this joint and make the fittings slightly longer
so that the bolt holes don't line up with the joint line, it should be OK
as is. Birch plywood, aircraft quality, is very strong and stiff---and the primary
strength of the joint is in the gussets, not the butt joint.
Just keep the bolt hole(s) away from the joint line.
Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
<00eb01c5c48d$9532e2a0$6401a8c0@Nick>
<003001c5c49a$ea1e9e50$e43032cc@CPQ29466173462>
I agree. What you have to ask is, what does this bracket connection
do?"
One- it locates that corner of the vertical tail system.
Two- it helps resist longitudinal drag forces. When you
put your foot in it and the rudder turns there is a
certain amount of force trying to pull the tail off.
You have two brackets, one forward and one aft. There
is also the bottom rudder hinge attached directly to the
fuselage. On top of this the gussets take most of the load.
AND the fabric is pulling it all together, consolidating the
whole mess. Oh yeah, the rudder cables are pulling
foreward as well! :-)
Clif
Nick,
If you use birch plywood gussets at this joint and make the fittings slightly
longer so that the bolt holes don't line up with the joint line, it should be
OK as is. Birch plywood, aircraft quality, is very strong and stiff---and the
primary strength of the joint is in the gussets, not the butt joint.
Just keep the bolt hole(s) away from the joint line.
Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RULE, HARVEY" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/28/05 |
Thanks to all for the information on the cockpit entrance door.All very
good ideas.I think the simplest and probably the easiest to install is
the spring tape method with the sawed off screw lining up with the hole
in the spring tape upon closing.Light,simple,easy in every way.
Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-28.html
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-28.txt
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 09/28/05: 14
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:06 AM - Landing Gear Alignment (Lou Wither)
> 2. 05:58 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com)
> 3. 06:15 AM - Re: Aileron (hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com)
> 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Lou Wither)
> 5. 11:38 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Carl Vought)
> 6. 12:19 PM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Jeff Boatright)
> 7. 03:25 PM - Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead (Douwe Blumberg)
> 8. 03:43 PM - Vertical Stab (Nick Harris)
> 9. 04:05 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Jim Markle)
> 10. 04:47 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Nick Harris)
> 11. 05:15 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Steve Eldredge)
> 12. 05:32 PM - Re: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead (Larry Nelson)
> 13. 05:34 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Nick Harris)
> 14. 07:10 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Graham Hansen)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
> From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
> Guys,
>
> I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels, but
> had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side
> load imposed on them when landing.
>
> Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from a
182.
> These should be rugged enough.
>
> The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side
seems
> to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done some
> alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be
> dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured
to
> the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt
> conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage.
>
> The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is without
> touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had some
> effect on the right side.
>
> Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine,
> just having this one last problem.
>
> Thanks
> Lou
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
> From: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com
> 27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 08:58:21 AM
>
> Lou,
>
> I had the same problem with my first landing gear.
> The problem is in geometry of hinge points at the fuselage, the front
> attachments are slightly wider than the rear.
>
> This can result in a toe-in unloaded, straight track half loaded and
> toe-out at full load.
> This all gets worse if bungees are weak, I found the bungees don't do much
> the first inch of compression
>
> I replaced the bungees with compression springs, see attached drawing.
> And align wheels with slight toe-in.
>
> Toe-out will cause tracking problems on runway at high speed.
> To much toe-in will cause tire wear and drag when rolling.
>
> You will still have a slight spreading when pushing it backwards but mostly
> because the plane is lightly loaded (your not in it)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Hans
>
> (See attached file: comp spring.pdf)
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron
> From: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com
> 27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 09:15:10 AM
>
>
> Santiago,
>
> I build my first aileron Rib with a 1/4 inch gap, used 1/4 ply as spacer.
> But this pace quickly disappears when fabric is applied, this area sees at
> least three layers or more due to folding and overlaps of the fabric.
>
> My gap is now less than 1/16, it works, but if I had known I would have
> started with 1/2 inch or perhaps 3/8.
>
> Regards
>
> Hans
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
> From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment
>
> Hans,
>
> Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about the bungee arrangement. I
really
> don't seem to be getting mine tight enough and there is the question as to
> whether they are equally tight. I like the spring arrangement. This could
> be an over the winter project.
September 01, 2005 - September 29, 2005
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-er