Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gk
January 27, 2008 - February 11, 2008
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gk
January 27, 2008 - February 11, 2008
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>>
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:58:35
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat
belts every two years along with our batteries?
Rick
On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd
> > wrote:
> >
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint
car seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller
what the expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in
to why seat belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There
was a faq that said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in
there first year, and enough that by the second or third year that they
were not strong enough to work adequately for a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway
first thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones,
which cost more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did
some searching the net and ran across some safety articles saying that
most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat
belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g forces are
properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to
the steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the
pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The
passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the
shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite
a bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat
belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks
talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old
86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones.
Makes you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654>
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654>>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2008
Subject: Re: Seat belts?
Wonder if all this had any bearing on the death of Dale Earnhart?
Personally, I'm not sure how strong I would want the belts to be...Let's say the
human
body can withstand 20G's. Lets also say the belts are good to 22G's. Do you
take your chances bouncing out of the plane across a runway, or risk being
pulled apart by the belts? Just thinking out loud...
Boyce
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Seat belts?
Date: Jan 27, 2008
This got me thinking, I called a firefighter friend of mine who has pulled
allot of people from allot of wrecks. His comment was that the only
recurring failure he has seen over the years is the failure to wear them.
_Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
>
> Hi,
>
> Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car
> seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the
> expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat
> belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that
> said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and
> enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough
> to work adequately for a crash.
>
> Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first
> thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost
> more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching
> the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane
> wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the
> ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn.
>
> My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the
> steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the
> pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The
> passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the
> shoulders.
>
> Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a
> bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
>
> What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
> anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks
> talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old
> 86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones.
> Makes you think.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: a nice day
Date: Jan 27, 2008
Since things are a bit slow here, I'll tell you all about a nice day
over NW Wisc. 34 degrees at 1:00. I hadn't flown my A-65 Piet sivce
August. I did the pre flight and gave it 2 shots of prime, pulled the
prop thru 10 times, 1 more shot of prime, left the primer open, switch
on and she fired up on the first pull. I had taken the seat cushion out
to lower myself down a bit to get less wind in the face. After take off
I stayed in the pattern for a couple of circuits to make sure things
were running good and went out low level flying. One nice thing about
the cold here is it makes some long flat places for landing. Theres
nothing like flying over frozen lakes at 5-10 ft. Its good over farm
fields too in the summer but this is a flat surface with no fences or
furrows. I stayed out for about 1.5 hours and was not cold at all.
Just thought Id share
Dick N
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Seat belts?
Date: Jan 27, 2008
I seem to remember seeing something somewhere about aircraft seat belts in
Europe having to replaced by a certian expiration date, but not in the U.S.
Don't remember where I saw that.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car
seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the
expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat
belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that
said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and
enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough to
work adequately for a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first
thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost
more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching
the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane
wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the
ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the
steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots
seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger
seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit
of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk
about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86
Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes
you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2008
From: James Dallas <bec176(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Seat belts?
Jim, I used to own and drive sprinters and midgets. We always swapped
the belts every two years whether they looked good or not. Unlike a
normal car these are washed at the car wash after every race. They
also are constantly exposed to the elements during the summer. On most
sprint cars the belts have been used at least once during the season
from rough landings.....the wings aren't supposed to make the car fly,
so when they do its usually always a rough landing and the human body
will stretch the belt 3 inches. There is no way to tell what the
strength is after a couple years other than destructive testing so we
just play it safe and replace.
The other JimD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Seat belts?
Date: Jan 28, 2008
JimD wrote-
>the human body will stretch the belt 3 inches.
If any belt in 41CC stretches 3 inches, I don't want to be in it!!! And if I am
in it, I don't think I'll have much of an opinion about it afterwards...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
I just wanted to let everyone know that Boulter Plywood still has 1/16" (1.5 mm)
exterior marine Okoume plywood on special for $23 for a 4x8 foot sheet. Since
I was going to use this to cover my leading edges, I was hoping to have it
slit to 12" and rolled to cut down on the freight. Boulter said that it won't
roll very well, so I asked how much to ship it flat and uncut. It was only $24
to ship from their yard in Somerville, MA to me here in NW Indiana by UPS.
I have a source for Okoume and Finnish birch over in South Bend, In, but the local
source would be more than what Boulter is charging including the shipping!
I ordered a sheet, but at that price, probably should have ordered more.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
How did you get UPS to ship a flat 4' X 8' sheet?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:40 PM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
I just wanted to let everyone know that Boulter Plywood still has 1/16"
(1.5 mm) exterior marine Okoume plywood on special for $23 for a 4x8 foot
sheet. Since I was going to use this to cover my leading edges, I was hoping
to have it slit to 12" and rolled to cut down on the freight. Boulter said
that it won't roll very well, so I asked how much to ship it flat and uncut.
It was only $24 to ship from their yard in Somerville, MA to me here in NW
Indiana by UPS.
I have a source for Okoume and Finnish birch over in South Bend, In, but
the local source would be more than what Boulter is charging including the
shipping! I ordered a sheet, but at that price, probably should have ordered
more.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Richard,
Just a thought,
If they cut it and lay it flat in a 12" X 8' package. UPS will ship it
(I think)
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
I just wanted to let everyone know that Boulter Plywood still has
1/16" (1.5 mm) exterior marine Okoume plywood on special for $23 for a
4x8 foot sheet. Since I was going to use this to cover my leading edges,
I was hoping to have it slit to 12" and rolled to cut down on the
freight. Boulter said that it won't roll very well, so I asked how much
to ship it flat and uncut. It was only $24 to ship from their yard in
Somerville, MA to me here in NW Indiana by UPS.
I have a source for Okoume and Finnish birch over in South Bend, In,
but the local source would be more than what Boulter is charging
including the shipping! I ordered a sheet, but at that price, probably
should have ordered more.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
I called Boulter customer service and according to them the uncut 4x8 it doesn't
have to go by freight line. They will crate it and ship it flat by UPS for $24.
I was suprized too. As soon as the order arrives I'll let eveyone know if
it came in OK.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
Sent: 1/28/2008 4:06:35 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
How did you get UPS to ship a flat 4' X 8' sheet?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
I just wanted to let everyone know that Boulter Plywood still has 1/16" (1.5 mm)
exterior marine Okoume plywood on special for $23 for a 4x8 foot sheet. Since
I was going to use this to cover my leading edges, I was hoping to have it
slit to 12" and rolled to cut down on the freight. Boulter said that it won't
roll very well, so I asked how much to ship it flat and uncut. It was only $24
to ship from their yard in Somerville, MA to me here in NW Indiana by UPS.
I have a source for Okoume and Finnish birch over in South Bend, In, but the local
source would be more than what Boulter is charging including the shipping!
I ordered a sheet, but at that price, probably should have ordered more.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Walt,
That maybe what they are going to do. Either way will be fine for my needs
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
Sent: 1/28/2008 4:11:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Richard,
Just a thought,
If they cut it and lay it flat in a 12" X 8' package. UPS will ship it (I think)
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
UPS published max is 165" in length plus girth and max 108" long.
Theoretically in a box an inch thick it would only be 145" and O.K.
Aircraft Spruce says that the max size for sheet metal by UPS is 2' X 4' so
I would like to know if they actually get it through.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Walt,
That maybe what they are going to do. Either way will be fine for my needs
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 1/28/2008 4:11:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Richard,
Just a thought,
If they cut it and lay it flat in a 12" X 8' package. UPS will ship it
(I think)
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: This week's radio show
Thanks for the heads-up. I really enjoyed the downloads. Please do
keep working on the iPod "subscribe" feature, 'cause I'll fore sure
subscribe. A really fun show and glad you're doing it.
>We should have a very good radio show this week at
>www.flighttimeradio.com. We have a good friend of ours on who is a
>banner tow company owner, instructor specializing in tailwheel
>training, and and master CFI. He is always entertaining and should
>be a lot of fun. We also have our retired air traffic controller
>from our first show helping to guest host and we will have a DAR
>giving us the latest news on LSA conversions. This show will be to
>hours again this week and starts at 9:00 AM eastern time.
>
>We will also have some free giveaways for callers starting this week.
>
>We have had about 2,000 new web site hits since AOPA gave us a story
>in their EPilot email so we should have a bunch of listeners and
>people calling in this week.
>
>Brian Kraut
>
>www.flighttimeradio.com
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: This week's radio show
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Re: Pietenpol-List: This week's radio showThanks. The podcast feature is up
and running now.
Brian Kraut
www.flighttimeradio.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: This week's radio show
Thanks for the heads-up. I really enjoyed the downloads. Please do keep
working on the iPod "subscribe" feature, 'cause I'll fore sure subscribe. A
really fun show and glad you're doing it.
We should have a very good radio show this week at
www.flighttimeradio.com. We have a good friend of ours on who is a banner
tow company owner, instructor specializing in tailwheel training, and and
master CFI. He is always entertaining and should be a lot of fun. We also
have our retired air traffic controller from our first show helping to guest
host and we will have a DAR giving us the latest news on LSA conversions.
This show will be to hours again this week and starts at 9:00 AM eastern
time.
We will also have some free giveaways for callers starting this week.
We have had about 2,000 new web site hits since AOPA gave us a story in
their EPilot email so we should have a bunch of listeners and people calling
in this week.
Brian Kraut
www.flighttimeradio.com
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat belts?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Hi,
Did more reading about it, and found a Canadian helicopter wreck death that was
blamed on seat belt failure. What they said was it tested out to only 600 lbs
breaking force instead of the 1500 minimum it should have, and they said the
new ones were more like 2400lbs. They apparently have inspections of seat belts
every year and compare the color to new to see how much they have faded, and
suggest replacement if they have faded by some amount (have some kind of color
chart).
Anyway its probably a non-issue for most of the belts as they rarely are called
upon to save your life fortunately, and if a plane is in a hangar all the time
it probably won't have a lot of UV related degradation of the fabric.
Am curious how people are anchoring the front seat's shoulder belts (assuming you
have shoulder belts), I currently don't have anything in place yet. Saw on
the westcoastpiet site a few odd attachments to flying wires, would like something
other than that. Seems like you want the belts attached really well, however
you would also want to be sure that in a wreck, anything that moved (like
the wing, attached to those wires) couldn't transfer the force to your belted
body. Think that was what the PFA rules about attaching the belts focused on.
Another question.. saw that the two styles of 5pt harnesses being used for sprint
cars were camlock and aircraft style. They said that everywhere but the US
the camlock was widely used, but in the US the aircraft style was still popular,
however it was much harder to put on. Which I believe as I have been up in
a Great Lakes that had that type (with a parachute and everything, we even did
an outside loop.. rest of ride was fun, that loop wasn't.) Anyway it was hard
to get all the parts in the right spot at the right time on the aircraft style
one, they said the camlock one let you kind of put each one in one at a time,
so it was much easier to do. Anyone using the camlock type? Planned on getting
the aircraft style till I thought about it a bit.
Anyway, the point that was made about not using a seatbelt being the biggest problem
is probably true. Can't remember flying with anyone that wouldn't or didn't
use a belt, but I am sure they are out there. My wife told me she wanted me
to put a bubble canopy on the plane as she not only wanted a belt, but a roof.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161000#161000
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plywood
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Let us know how the shipping works out.
I bought some .040 3003 aluminum locally to use for my leading edge wrap. (Its
heavier than I wanted, but was 50 a sheet for 12'x4ft..). I bought a sheet of
8x4ft for 40 just to have it for other stuff, like maybe my cowling bumps, the
mounting brackets for the windshield, that sort of thing.
Think wood probably would work better. Only reason for going aluminum was that
my top wing was already wrapped with it and didn't want to pay a lot of shipping.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161003#161003
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: windscreens
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Never did find a good template, so I ended up making one myself. Took some stiff
cardboard, curved it about the way I thought it should be, taped it so the curve
would stay in it. (big rectangle just the middle bowing out) and then held
it in place over the fuselage at about the right angle for a windshield.
Used a compass held vertically to trace the profile of the fuselage on to the cardboard,
then cut the profile out and made a few adjustments to get the cardboard
to fit well. Then transfered the shape of the bottom of the windshield up
to the top and cut it off so it was basically windshield shaped with straight
edges.
That looked too big and ugly, so I took about a three inch angle cut off each edge
(started at very edge on bottom, but by top it was three inches narrower.
That helped a bit. Did it a second time and it looked much better. Then dropped
down a bit from the top edge and used the compass to get a round edge.. that
looked pretty good.
Once the template looked okay, the cutting commenced. Thought it would take a lot
of tries, so I had enough plexiglass to cut about 6 windshields out. Read that
a Rotozip tool works great to cut plexiglass. Mom gave me one last year, never
had used it, tried it and have to agree, it really is good for cutting plexiglass.
Traced the outline of my template, cut off a manageable chunk from the
4x8 sheet of plexiglass, put it on a padded table with support up pretty close
to the cutting line and cut it. It was kind of wavy at first, but managed
to get the hang of it pretty good and allowed enough space outside the line to
allow for grinding it to size. When I do the second one I am going to find some
kind of guide to follow to get a straight line, it would save a lot of filing.
Anyway it came out pretty good, clamped the rough cut piece in to my workmate
and used a file to get it to what I think will be its final shape. Its quite
a bit stiffer than I thought, so either its going to have to have strong brackets
bending it or I may have to heat it and put a bend in it somehow.
Was fun to make, still not done yet. Not sure its a good idea to put the windshield
on all the way and leave it with so much else to do, may fit it remove it
and store it till closer to the final assembly time.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161005#161005
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
I would stay away from the 3003 for mounting brackets except for purely
cosmetic items. 3003 is very weak compared with the other alloys. Probably
real good for cowling bumps and other stuff that needs to be formed.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood
Let us know how the shipping works out.
I bought some .040 3003 aluminum locally to use for my leading edge wrap.
(Its heavier than I wanted, but was 50 a sheet for 12'x4ft..). I bought a
sheet of 8x4ft for 40 just to have it for other stuff, like maybe my cowling
bumps, the mounting brackets for the windshield, that sort of thing.
Think wood probably would work better. Only reason for going aluminum was
that my top wing was already wrapped with it and didn't want to pay a lot of
shipping.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161003#161003
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Jim,
I was going to use aluminum roof flashing for my leading edge wrap
originally to save money, as I could get it locally for about 10 or 15
dollars for a 10" wide roll. Then I started thinking about hanger rash,
bird strikes, overly enthusiastic crowds at air shows and then decided to
go with the plywood for more sturdiness. I checked prices at Aircraft
Spruce and choked, then saw that Wickes was even higher. I then found a
supplier about 50 miles away, but they wanted over $50 for a 50x50 sheet of
1/16" Finnish Birch plywood. That's not enough to do the leading edge with
one sheet, so I would have to buy two. $50 delivered from Boulter sounded
like the best way to go.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: jimd <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 1/28/2008 10:20:08 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plywood
>
>
> Let us know how the shipping works out.
>
> I bought some .040 3003 aluminum locally to use for my leading edge wrap.
(Its heavier than I wanted, but was 50 a sheet for 12'x4ft..). I bought a
sheet of 8x4ft for 40 just to have it for other stuff, like maybe my
cowling bumps, the mounting brackets for the windshield, that sort of thing.
>
> Think wood probably would work better. Only reason for going aluminum was
that my top wing was already wrapped with it and didn't want to pay a lot
of shipping.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161003#161003
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 28, 2008
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize. I
'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
First off if you're a purist, this isn't going to sit well, my only excuse
is that I have built and flown one to the plans (mostly)
So hear goes...
Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG moun
ted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out so far.
Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
I looked around at other parasol designs and there is the Baking Duce, and
the Fairchild 22. What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22 w
ith the pietenpol tail....
Just wondering what you might think of it...
Steve E
Low and Slow Since 1929
Pietenpol Aircamper
steve(at)byu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I say go for it, Steve. Bill Rewey has talked for years about wanting
to build a "Super" Piet. He was wanting to make the wing 3' longer.
I'd go even further and make it at least 4' more, to get the wing
loading down to something close to that of a J-3 (7.15 lb/sq ft). My
Piet at gross has a wing loading of almost 8 lbs/sq ft. The old rule of
thumb for airplanes was: If the wing loading in lbs/sq ft and the power
loading in lbs/hp added up to more than 25, you've got a sluggish
climbing airplane. My Piet at 1195 lbs gross (full fuel, me and a 160
lb passenger) has a wing loading of 7.97lbs/sq ft and a power loading of
18.38, for a total of 26.35. Loaded like that, I get a good solid 100
ft/min climb rate. With a bigger wing and the power of that LOM engine
you should be able to get it well under 25 total.
I've flown a Fairchild 22 and can honestly say that a Pietenpol is a
better flying airplane. Those full span ailerons on the Fairchild seem
to contribute little but adverse yaw. Visibility on the ground is
worse, too (but the Fairchild 22 I've been flying has a radial engine,
which requires S-turning to see around when taxiing). The Farchild is
much heavier on the controls. Cool airplane, though.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize.
I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
First off if you're a purist, this isn't going to sit well, my only
excuse is that I have built and flown one to the plans (mostly)
So hear goes...
Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out
so far.
Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
I looked around at other parasol designs and there is the Baking Duce,
and the Fairchild 22. What is cooking up in my mind is something like a
F-22 with the pietenpol tail....
Just wondering what you might think of it...
Steve E
Low and Slow Since 1929
Pietenpol Aircamper
steve(at)byu.edu
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Steve,
Go for it. Just don't call it a Pietenpol!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Date: Jan 29, 2008
oh god, he can call it whatever he wants.
Jim T.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Steve,
Go for it. Just don't call it a Pietenpol!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489> in
the new year.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Steveee wrote-
>I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize.
>I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
Well, given that this is the Piet list, you're going to get opinions that are biased
towards the Piet!
>Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
>mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out so far.
You're imagining something along the lines of Corky's NX31CC, the "Southern Comfort"
(for those who desire/require a bit more room to stretch out).
>Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre on his
Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power and weight,
but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
>What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22 with the pietenpol tail....
Now there you go making a Frankenstein out of two perfectly good airplanes ;o)
If you want to take the time and effort to figure out how to make it all work,
more power to ya but you'll be out there plowing new ground.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Jim,
He can't. Ask any purist.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: SSchof4277(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Since I am 6'4" and 250lbs, I've been thinking about a larger "Piet" also. I
love everything about the original Piet, except its size, and I just can't
justify building something I know I'll never truly fit into. I figure that
since I am about 20% larger (heavier) than Bernie, a "Piet" + 20% should be about
right.
I say go for it Steve-arino, and keep us posted as to your progress.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Can you define the sense of the term purist?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:02
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Jim,
He can't. Ask any purist.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
----------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Among other interesting observations, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre on his
Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power and
weight, but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
Dry weight of the 75hp LOM is 152 lb, with the 140 hp model coming in at
249 lb. A 125 hp Menasco C4 Pirate is 284 lb dry. The 150 hp CASA Tigre
IV lists at 264 lb. The 125 hp version is a little lighter, but I can't
find the number at the moment.
I hope Mr. Ducey has beefed up the front end of his Pete-alike. The
weight is fine, but all that horsepower would scare me.
Owen Davies
newly resubscribed, with five wing ribs in the garage and restored
enthusiasm to complete the plane after many years in hibernation
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Steve
Have you seen the Italian Aerolab? Thats kind of what it sounds like
you are describing. They make it in 3 different configurations. I like
the low wing set up best.
In my opinion which I have stated many times before is that if Bernard
Pietenpol was still around today he would be trying all kinds of
different ideas and would probably pull out some sketches he had done
while you were describing your idea.
Dick N.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
I'm dreaming of another piet. this one is going to be a bit oversize.
I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
First off if you're a purist, this isn't going to sit well, my only
excuse is that I have built and flown one to the plans (mostly)
So hear goes.
Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out
so far.
Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
I looked around at other parasol designs and there is the Baking Duce,
and the Fairchild 22. What is cooking up in my mind is something like a
F-22 with the pietenpol tail..
Just wondering what you might think of it.
Steve E
Low and Slow Since 1929
Pietenpol Aircamper
steve(at)byu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: windscreens
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Jim
Be sure to hold on to your template just in case. I re- made my windscreen
several times. If it isnt high enough the wind comes over and makes it hard
to talk on the radio. To big and it doesnt look that great. Flying the
other day in cold temp was comfortable with no wind in the cockpit.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: windscreens
>
> Never did find a good template, so I ended up making one myself. Took some
> stiff cardboard, curved it about the way I thought it should be, taped it
> so the curve would stay in it. (big rectangle just the middle bowing out)
> and then held it in place over the fuselage at about the right angle for a
> windshield.
>
> Used a compass held vertically to trace the profile of the fuselage on to
> the cardboard, then cut the profile out and made a few adjustments to get
> the cardboard to fit well. Then transfered the shape of the bottom of the
> windshield up to the top and cut it off so it was basically windshield
> shaped with straight edges.
>
> That looked too big and ugly, so I took about a three inch angle cut off
> each edge (started at very edge on bottom, but by top it was three inches
> narrower. That helped a bit. Did it a second time and it looked much
> better. Then dropped down a bit from the top edge and used the compass to
> get a round edge.. that looked pretty good.
>
> Once the template looked okay, the cutting commenced. Thought it would
> take a lot of tries, so I had enough plexiglass to cut about 6 windshields
> out. Read that a Rotozip tool works great to cut plexiglass. Mom gave me
> one last year, never had used it, tried it and have to agree, it really is
> good for cutting plexiglass. Traced the outline of my template, cut off a
> manageable chunk from the 4x8 sheet of plexiglass, put it on a padded
> table with support up pretty close to the cutting line and cut it. It was
> kind of wavy at first, but managed to get the hang of it pretty good and
> allowed enough space outside the line to allow for grinding it to size.
> When I do the second one I am going to find some kind of guide to follow
> to get a straight line, it would save a lot of filing. Anyway it came out
> pretty good, clamped the rough cut piece in to my workmate and used a file
> to get it to what I think will be its final shape. Its quite a bit stiffer
> than I thought, so either its going!
> to have to have strong brackets bending it or I may have to heat it and
> put a bend in it somehow.
>
> Was fun to make, still not done yet. Not sure its a good idea to put the
> windshield on all the way and leave it with so much else to do, may fit it
> remove it and store it till closer to the final assembly time.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161005#161005
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dutch Pietenpol Project Website
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Every once in a while, I stumble across an interesting website. Here's
my latest find.
It's a Pietenpol project based in Holland. There's not a lot of
supporting text, but there are photos. The woodwork looks different -
very dark. I think maybe the builder has stained the wood, because there
is a photo that shows some loose sticks of wood that are not nearly so
dark. The decking around the cockpits looks very shiny - maybe Formica
or something like that? But there's one very interesting photo - the
engine. It's a six-cylinder Anzani (but again, no written info to
explain). This will be an interesting project to follow.
Hmmm... wonder what the "purists" will have to say about this one. I
know Bernard tried a lot of different powerplants, but I don't recall
reading anything about an Anzani-powered Air Camper.
Oh yeah, I better give you the web link:
http://www.dutchnostalgicwings.nl/eng/index.html
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: windscreens
Dick
I will be flying in some cold weather here in CO too and would like to keep
the wind out of my face. Since you are an expert in this area can you tell
us about how high the top of your windscreen is above the top of your head
when you are sitting in your Piet? (Say a line parallel to the top
longerons). No one template will work for everyone since the required
windscreen height depends on the pilot's height and how high he rides in the
saddle (little Colorado slang there). This will help me figure out how high
to make mine.
Thanks
Rick
On Jan 29, 2008 10:18 AM, Dick Navratil wrote:
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
>
> Jim
> Be sure to hold on to your template just in case. I re- made my
> windscreen
> several times. If it isnt high enough the wind comes over and makes it
> hard
> to talk on the radio. To big and it doesnt look that great. Flying the
> other day in cold temp was comfortable with no wind in the cockpit.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:30 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: windscreens
>
>
> >
> > Never did find a good template, so I ended up making one myself. Took
> some
> > stiff cardboard, curved it about the way I thought it should be, taped
> it
> > so the curve would stay in it. (big rectangle just the middle bowing
> out)
> > and then held it in place over the fuselage at about the right angle for
> a
> > windshield.
> >
> > Used a compass held vertically to trace the profile of the fuselage on
> to
> > the cardboard, then cut the profile out and made a few adjustments to
> get
> > the cardboard to fit well. Then transfered the shape of the bottom of
> the
> > windshield up to the top and cut it off so it was basically windshield
> > shaped with straight edges.
> >
> > That looked too big and ugly, so I took about a three inch angle cut off
> > each edge (started at very edge on bottom, but by top it was three
> inches
> > narrower. That helped a bit. Did it a second time and it looked much
> > better. Then dropped down a bit from the top edge and used the compass
> to
> > get a round edge.. that looked pretty good.
> >
> > Once the template looked okay, the cutting commenced. Thought it would
> > take a lot of tries, so I had enough plexiglass to cut about 6
> windshields
> > out. Read that a Rotozip tool works great to cut plexiglass. Mom gave me
> > one last year, never had used it, tried it and have to agree, it really
> is
> > good for cutting plexiglass. Traced the outline of my template, cut off
> a
> > manageable chunk from the 4x8 sheet of plexiglass, put it on a padded
> > table with support up pretty close to the cutting line and cut it. It
> was
> > kind of wavy at first, but managed to get the hang of it pretty good and
> > allowed enough space outside the line to allow for grinding it to size.
> > When I do the second one I am going to find some kind of guide to follow
> > to get a straight line, it would save a lot of filing. Anyway it came
> out
> > pretty good, clamped the rough cut piece in to my workmate and used a
> file
> > to get it to what I think will be its final shape. Its quite a bit
> stiffer
> > than I thought, so either its going!
> > to have to have strong brackets bending it or I may have to heat it and
> > put a bend in it somehow.
> >
> > Was fun to make, still not done yet. Not sure its a good idea to put the
> > windshield on all the way and leave it with so much else to do, may fit
> it
> > remove it and store it till closer to the final assembly time.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161005#161005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Puracrite. Like a hipocrite. As in mine's not really a purist's Pietenpol,
but your's better be or call it something else?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Can you define the sense of the term purist?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:02
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Jim,
He can't. Ask any purist.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
----------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Go for it Steve. Mine has a 2" wider fuselage, 2' extra span (recommended b
y
two tech advisers), the firewall is moved 6" forward (as recommended by BP)
,
the cabanes raised 2 1/2", and the mains moved forward 2" (as recommended b
y
Bill Rewey). Of course it hasn't flown yet but everything I have done has
been done on flying Pietenpols before.
Rick
On Jan 28, 2008 10:20 PM, Steve Eldredge wrote:
> I'm dreaming of another piet=85 this one is going to be a bit oversize.
> I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
>
>
> First off if you're a purist, this isn't going to sit well, my only excus
e
> is that I have built and flown one to the plans (mostly)
>
>
> So hear goes=85
>
>
> Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
> mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out s
o
> far.
>
>
> Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
>
>
> I looked around at other parasol designs and there is the Baking Duce, an
d
> the Fairchild 22. What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22
> with the pietenpol tail=85.
>
>
> Just wondering what you might think of it=85
>
>
> Steve E
>
> Low and Slow Since 1929
>
> Pietenpol Aircamper
>
> steve(at)byu.edu
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
FYI, neither is mine, but its still a Piet, wide body and improved to meet
my needs. Guess what, here's a real surprise I even used epoxy rather than the
purist casein glue, that Bernie and all the other purist used in their
builds. All the purists out there building are using casein glue, aren't they?
Actually, if its not the exact same materials, constructed using the same
techniques and tools, hand saws etc exactly the way Bernie did it than by the
purist definition none can be called a Piet.
However, following the innovative spirit of Bernie its creator and the idea
of it being experimental in nature, design and construction, well you decide.
Which is the pure for the construction and detailed pursuit of purity
duplicating the build to exacting the specifications and materials of following
the
concept of the creation by its creator?
Again one has to define the term and sense of the purest. I am following the
plans and making changes to suit my needs, to quote another builder" its
your airplane , build it the way you want it!
Thanks Michael Cuy and as previously stated in person, I really enjoyed the
video! and looking forward to the day I can park my build next to all the
other quality built ships at Broadhead.
Will the real Pietenpol Aircamper please stand up, till then keep on gluing!
John
In a message dated 1/29/2008 2:17:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "James"
Puracrite. Like a hipocrite. As in mine's not really a purist's Pietenpol,
but your's better be or call it something else?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Can you define the sense of the term purist?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:02
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Jim,
He can't. Ask any purist.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
----------------
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
I must chime in here too. I am 6'0 and 265lbs. I made my fuse 4" wider at the front
and the taper gives me enough room at the rear cockpit to fit inside with
extra room! I have also added length for W/b issues....
I will also have added to the wing span and it should be reducing my wing loading
as such.
I am following the plans but making the necessary changes to make sure it accommodates
my frame. Then....am I not a purest? Only because of my size am I making
the necessary adjustments to allow me to enjoy the great plane called pietenpol.
I can see now that my new logo for the "wide body" pietenpol must be completed
for all to see and designate the differences between "standard" and "wide
body" piets.
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Owen Davies wrote:
Among other interesting observations, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre on his
Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power and weight,
but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
Dry weight of the 75hp LOM is 152 lb, with the 140 hp model coming in at
249 lb. A 125 hp Menasco C4 Pirate is 284 lb dry. The 150 hp CASA Tigre
IV lists at 264 lb. The 125 hp version is a little lighter, but I can't
find the number at the moment.
I hope Mr. Ducey has beefed up the front end of his Pete-alike. The
weight is fine, but all that horsepower would scare me.
Owen Davies
newly resubscribed, with five wing ribs in the garage and restored
enthusiasm to complete the plane after many years in hibernation
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Great point John, in all the previous Piet-Purist discussions (has to happen
at least once a year) I don't recall anyone mentioning that to be truly
original a Pietenpol must be built with the same tools (or lack thereof) as
BP used. You could even go further and say that to be a 'real' Pietenpol you
must build it with BP's original tools! (wherever they are).
Rick
On Jan 29, 2008 12:56 PM, wrote:
> FYI, neither is mine, but its still a Piet, wide body and improved to
> meet my needs. Guess what, here's a real surprise I even used epoxy rather
> than the purist casein glue, that Bernie and all the other purist used in
> their builds. All the purists out there building are using casein glue,
> aren't they?
>
> Actually, if its not the exact same materials, constructed using the same
> techniques and tools, hand saws etc exactly the way Bernie did it than by
> the purist definition none can be called a Piet.
>
> However, following the innovative spirit of Bernie its creator and the
> idea of it being experimental in nature, design and construction, well you
> decide.
>
> Which is the pure for the construction and detailed pursuit of purity
> duplicating the build to exacting the specifications and materials of
> following the concept of the creation by its creator?
>
> Again one has to define the term and sense of the purest. I am following
> the plans and making changes to suit my needs, to quote another builder" its
> your airplane , build it the way you want it!
>
> Thanks Michael Cuy and as previously stated in person, I really enjoyed
> the video! and looking forward to the day I can park my build next to all
> the other quality built ships at Broadhead.
>
> Will the real Pietenpol Aircamper please stand up, till then keep on
> gluing!
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 1/29/2008 2:17:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
>
> Puracrite. Like a hipocrite. As in mine's not really a purist's
> Pietenpol,
> but your's better be or call it something else?
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
>
>
> Can you define the sense of the term purist?
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:02
> To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
>
>
> Jim,
>
> He can't. Ask any purist.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp;
> - List Contribution Web Site ;
> ========================
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Any Piet projects in/around Denver?
Date: Jan 29, 2008
I have a 2 week trip to Denver coming up......
If there's anyone in the area, please contact me offlist and let's get
together!
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
Ken,
I am eagerly awaiting the logo design of the wide body . As I too have
widened mine to accommodate me and any additional clothing I choose to wear. I
fit
in the standard width naked and greased. I rather prefer to wear clothing
when flying mine as it makes purchasing fuel a lot less hazardous and certainly
less comical, not wanting to be the butt of FBO jokes I am certain you can
appreciate my situation.
So bring it on my man! and lets see what the wide body Logo looks like!
John
In a message dated 1/29/2008 3:24:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
I must chime in here too. I am 6'0 and 265lbs. I made my fuse 4" wider at
the front and the taper gives me enough room at the rear cockpit to fit inside
with extra room! I have also added length for W/b issues....
I will also have added to the wing span and it should be reducing my wing
loading as such.
I am following the plans but making the necessary changes to make sure it
accommodates my frame. Then....am I not a purest? Only because of my size am I
making the necessary adjustments to allow me to enjoy the great plane called
pietenpol. I can see now that my new logo for the "wide body" pietenpol must
be completed for all to see and designate the differences between "standard"
and "wide body" piets.
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Owen Davies wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Owen Davies
Among other interesting observations, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre
on his Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power
and weight, but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
Dry weight of the 75hp LOM is 152 lb, with the 140 hp model coming in at
249 lb. A 125 hp Menasco C4 Pirate is 284 lb dry. The 150 hp CASA Tigre
IV lists at 264 lb. The 125 hp version is a little lighter, but I can't
find the number at the moment.
I hope Mr. Ducey has beefed up the front end of his Pete-alike. The
weight is fine, but all that horsepower would scare me.
Owen Davies
newly resubscribed, with five wing ribs in the garage and restored
enthusiasm to complete the plane after many years in color=#0000ff>Kenneth
M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Hi,
125hp would scare you? Its slow RPM horsepower, which is good.
My plane is a GN-1 with the St. Croix Biplane conversion.. its has a 4130 tube
frame and is pretty stout, don't think 125hp should be a problem. I am a larger
person myself, at 6ft 1", and 250+ lbs. The plane fits kind of tight, I will
be moving some of the tubing for the passenger seat to accomodate my legs better,
otherwise its to the GN-1 plans. Well the fuselage is, the tail is JN-4
shaped.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161186#161186
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dutch Pietenpol Project Website
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/default.htm
You might like above link. Its pretty cool.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161189#161189
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plywood
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Hi,
I thought about it a bit, we are talking about .040 where .016 was indicated for
the top wing. The plane will fly without the lower wing. May end up going wood,
as I think all the nails used with aluminum will be a pain to keep from working
there way up through the cloth when it is covered.
Haven't put it on yet, may still go wood. Going to a fabric covering class next
weekend, fixing the leading edge will probably be focus before long.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161192#161192
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Markle in Denver
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Beware if you let Jim visit your project in Denver. This man is a
four-flusher, a charlatan, a pick-pocket, thief, and supposed
member of the mafia. He might seem like a nice guy on the surface but
hide your wife, jewels, and other items of worth
when he visits. Check the post office for likenesses of him
too.....just in case.
Jim's friend,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: check this out
Click on the video...
www.aerosite.net
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Jim,
You're planning to use .040" where .016" is called for?
The leading edge wrap is approximately 9" wide (per Pietenpol plans) x 28
feet long. That's about 21 square feet of area.
.016" aluminum weighs about .224 lb/sq.ft.
.040" aluminum weighs about .563 lb/sq.ft.
1/16" plywood weighs around .25 lb/sq.ft (roughly the same as the .016"
aluminum)
So, based on the above data, the .016" aluminum or the 1/16" ply skin will
weigh less than 5 pounds. The .040" aluminum skin will weigh almost 12
pounds. This is all before nails. Do you really want an extra 7 pounds, with
no real benefit?
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: I am a Purist
HI Guys,
I am a Bernard Pietenpol "purist". The definition of this is:
You must built EXACTLY according to one of Bernard's official plans (or
existing airplanes) with no deviations except the ones I put in there. You must
use only the engines authorized by Bernard, to be privileged to attach the
Pietenpol name to your airplane except for the minor variations that I have
incorporated. Only the construction materials and processes available to Bernard
ar
e to be used except for the ones that were too hard or inconvenient for me
to duplicate in today's modern world.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Markle in Denver
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Mike; I think you must have met Jim's evil twin if you're talking about the swindling,
cheating guy. Sure, you have to watch out for the evil twin but not Jim.
Jim actually bought me not one, but TWO beers when he visited San Antonio
last month! 'Course I had to sit and listen to his lies about some farm that
he supposedly lives on, raises chickens, all that kind of country talk as well
as wild ideas for his Pietenpol. Maybe he will call his Piet "Fried Chicken",
NX899FC... that would make a cool logo for the fuselage (where is DJ when you
need him!?)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
jimd wrote:
> 125hp would scare you? Its slow RPM horsepower, which is good.
>
Which is to say that it probably feeds a whole lot more force back to
the airframe than those miniature Lycontisaurus horses would.
> My plane is a GN-1 with the St. Croix Biplane conversion.. its has a 4130 tube
frame and is pretty stout, don't think 125hp should be a problem.
Ah. That should make it work, I guess, especially if you are using 4130.
As we've all heard, it was way overbuilt for a Ford A even with whatever
random tubing was available locally. Assuming a wood frame, I was
inclined to suggest naming it the "Ducey Dicey!" I'll be eager to hear
how it performs.
Best of luck.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Any Piet projects in/around Denver?
Jim
In spite of all those bad things Mike and Oscar say about you I would still
love you come on down to Castle Rock and check out my project (just South of
Denver about 10 miles). Have my airframe mostly done and am working on the
Corvair engine. Will send you my info. Piet builders are rather rare around
these here parts, it will be fun.
Rick
On Jan 29, 2008 1:42 PM, Jim Markle wrote:
> I have a 2 week trip to Denver coming up......
>
> If there's anyone in the area, please contact me offlist and let's get
> together!
>
> Jim Markle
> Pryor, OK
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Jim I personally would go with plywood. Aluminum WILL DENT, plywood won't. Also
ply adds strength, and unless aluminum is bonded (glued) it offers no strength
whatsoever. And you are right on the money with the nails working back out.
I even try to pull all the nails I can out of my wooden structures, because
of bumps in fabric, and they will eventually start to rust and create rot.
Just my 2 cents
Shad
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Markle in Denver
Date: Jan 29, 2008
In all seriousness, if anyone is in Colorado and has the time, I would encourage
them to visit or call John Dilatush in Salida, Colorado. Southwest of Denver
and a nice drive unless it's snowy. I'll bet it would be fun to sit and talk
with John about "Mountain Piet". He's one sharp Pietenpoler and knows what
he's talking about when it comes to operating out of high altitude airports, and
his airplane will always be a classic example of a purpose-built Piet tweaked
to fly in those conditions.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Markle in Denver
Date: Jan 29, 2008
The West Coast Pietenpol Builders Conference was held recently and we
invited the esteemed Pietenpol ambassador Jim Markle to be our guest
speaker. Well actually come to think of it he invited himself. Anyway, as
you can see from the attached picture, all of us in attendance had a great
time listening to Jim's stories of seeing, touching and actually flying a
real Pietenpol. He seemed like a nice guy but after he left I did notice a
lot of pizza and lots of chocolate chip cookies were missing. None of us
builders would have eaten such things in fear of loosing our climb rate but
Jim's not really building anymore as he is on the road spreading the good
word about Pietenpols. What a wonderful sacrifice he is making on our
behalf. About the only thing bad he had to say was my garage was to clean.
I tried to explain I had cleaned in honor of his visit, but I think he was
eyeing the cookies by then. We all greatly appreciated him sacrificing his
sleep so he could visit us.
I say if you get the chance to have him over you wont be sorry. The women
and children will be fine just hide the cookies. We had so much fun we are
now planning on having a Spring Builders conference. So all you west coast
builders, that would be all five of you, mark your calendars. Maybe we can
get Oscar to fly 41CC over here for a practice cross country. Or perhaps
"Forever Young" Mike Cuy should fly over to rebuke Jim's stories.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Markle in Denver
>
>
> Mike; I think you must have met Jim's evil twin if you're talking about
> the swindling, cheating guy. Sure, you have to watch out for the evil
> twin but not Jim. Jim actually bought me not one, but TWO beers when he
> visited San Antonio last month! 'Course I had to sit and listen to his
> lies about some farm that he supposedly lives on, raises chickens, all
> that kind of country talk as well as wild ideas for his Pietenpol. Maybe
> he will call his Piet "Fried Chicken", NX899FC... that would make a cool
> logo for the fuselage (where is DJ when you need him!?)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22 (Steve Eldredge)
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Hey Steve,
Love the idea! I made my fuselage 2" wider and 3" longer front pit forward
and 2" in the rear cockpit. I sat in a GN and my old eyes wouldn't focus o
n the gauges!! I'm realizing that each little change ripples throughout the
rest of the build, but I believe it'll be worth it in the end.
Also love the engine idea, I'd love to go with the radial like Dick's, but
and A65 is going on mine for now. Good to see your excitement about Piets
again - you're pretty doggone resilient!! Go for it!
Mike Cuy: Are you out there? I tried to email you direct, but maybe I got
caught in a junk mail filter? When you get a moment, give me a holler off l
ist - my regular old email address. You were right on my progress. I'm work
ing on install the gas tank, get wheels from Buchanan's, make up tons or ta
ilfeather brace wires and get ready to move on to the center section and wi
ngs. I've got a head of steam again - it feels really good!
Talk to you guys later!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120
08
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Markle in Denver
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2008
You know I have met Jim a few times at the end of each meeting we shook hands as
expected. After we turned away I found myself counting my fingers.
I suggest you do the same one never knows what he is capable of. A down home accent
a smile a hand shake and poof he's walking away with your fingers in his
pocket. I bet he could become our next.........
Jim Markle for president.... Vote Jimmy in November!
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:09:54
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Markle in Denver
Beware if you let Jim visit your project in Denver. This man is a four-flusher,
a charlatan, a pick-pocket, thief, and supposed
member of the mafia. He might seem like a nice guy on the surface but hide your
wife, jewels, and other items of worth
when he visits. Check the post office for likenesses of him too.....just in case.
Jim's friend,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2008
It is a sad tale I found my self on this small obscure road just past the pryor
Oklahoma. When I came upon a nice little spread owned by a Texas chicken farmer.
I pulled into the drive way and was promptly greeted by this rather tall farmer
type in bib overalls. The farmer invited me to see a project he was working
on, intrigud I agreed to follow him to his work shop where he had the makins
of an airplane he told me he was building a model A Pietenpol, and yes he sure
was. He offered me a beer or two and soon offered me a chance to sit in his
airplane. Well the first try didn't go so well. He suggested I remove some of
the bulky clothing soon I was naked then he handed me some grease suggesting
it as an approved method. Next think I knew I was in the rear pit seated and
making the flying noise. I turned back to tell the farmer it worked only to
find Markle running down the drive way with my cloths in hand laughing as he took
off with all my belongings wallet keys cash an all.
Embarrasing as it was I learned a valuable lesson about Piets and friendly farmers.
Sorry to have to put you all through the tale the Dr said it would get easier each
time I tell it One step at a time he says I got 11 more to go
Wow I feel better now for sharing
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:25:22
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
John wrote:
I fit in the standard width naked and greased.
John,
Please do us all a favor andNOT share withus the details of how you know this to
be true.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: windscreens
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Rick
You are right, no one dimension would be the same for all. Sit in your
plane with your flying helmet on. The top of the windscreen should be
at least parallel with the top of your head. The overall height of the
lexan on mine is 19" as I recall. But as it is cocked back at about 35
degrees I dont know what the clearance is to the the bottom of the
center section of the wing, not that yours would be the same.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: windscreens
Dick
I will be flying in some cold weather here in CO too and would like to
keep the wind out of my face. Since you are an expert in this area can
you tell us about how high the top of your windscreen is above the top
of your head when you are sitting in your Piet? (Say a line parallel to
the top longerons). No one template will work for everyone since the
required windscreen height depends on the pilot's height and how high he
rides in the saddle (little Colorado slang there). This will help me
figure out how high to make mine.
Thanks
Rick
On Jan 29, 2008 10:18 AM, Dick Navratil
wrote:
Jim
Be sure to hold on to your template just in case. I re- made my
windscreen
several times. If it isnt high enough the wind comes over and makes
it hard
to talk on the radio. To big and it doesnt look that great. Flying
the
other day in cold temp was comfortable with no wind in the cockpit.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: windscreens
>
> Never did find a good template, so I ended up making one myself.
Took some
> stiff cardboard, curved it about the way I thought it should be,
taped it
> so the curve would stay in it. (big rectangle just the middle
bowing out)
> and then held it in place over the fuselage at about the right
angle for a
> windshield.
>
> Used a compass held vertically to trace the profile of the
fuselage on to
> the cardboard, then cut the profile out and made a few adjustments
to get
> the cardboard to fit well. Then transfered the shape of the bottom
of the
> windshield up to the top and cut it off so it was basically
windshield
> shaped with straight edges.
>
> That looked too big and ugly, so I took about a three inch angle
cut off
> each edge (started at very edge on bottom, but by top it was three
inches
> narrower. That helped a bit. Did it a second time and it looked
much
> better. Then dropped down a bit from the top edge and used the
compass to
> get a round edge.. that looked pretty good.
>
> Once the template looked okay, the cutting commenced. Thought it
would
> take a lot of tries, so I had enough plexiglass to cut about 6
windshields
> out. Read that a Rotozip tool works great to cut plexiglass. Mom
gave me
> one last year, never had used it, tried it and have to agree, it
really is
> good for cutting plexiglass. Traced the outline of my template,
cut off a
> manageable chunk from the 4x8 sheet of plexiglass, put it on a
padded
> table with support up pretty close to the cutting line and cut it.
It was
> kind of wavy at first, but managed to get the hang of it pretty
good and
> allowed enough space outside the line to allow for grinding it to
size.
> When I do the second one I am going to find some kind of guide to
follow
> to get a straight line, it would save a lot of filing. Anyway it
came out
> pretty good, clamped the rough cut piece in to my workmate and
used a file
> to get it to what I think will be its final shape. Its quite a bit
stiffer
> than I thought, so either its going!
> to have to have strong brackets bending it or I may have to heat
it and
> put a bend in it somehow.
>
> Was fun to make, still not done yet. Not sure its a good idea to
put the
> windshield on all the way and leave it with so much else to do,
may fit it
> remove it and store it till closer to the final assembly time.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161005#161005
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Oversize piet
More funny is picturing you spending 90 min typing this story in with your thumbs
on the blackberry.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
It is a sad tale I found my self on this small obscure road just past the pryor
Oklahoma. When I came upon a nice little spread owned by a Texas chicken farmer.
I pulled into the drive way and was promptly greeted by this rather tall farmer
type in bib overalls. The farmer invited me to see a project he was working
on, intrigud I agreed to follow him to his work shop where he had the makins
of an airplane he told me he was building a model A Pietenpol, and yes he sure
was. He offered me a beer or two and soon offered me a chance to sit in his
airplane. Well the first try didn't go so well. He suggested I remove some of
the bulky clothing soon I was naked then he handed me some grease suggesting
it as an approved method. Next think I knew I was in the rear pit seated and
making the flying noise. I turned back to tell the farmer it worked only to
find Markle running down the drive way with my cloths in hand laughing as he took
off with all my belongings wallet keys cash an a!
ll.
Embarrasing as it was I learned a valuable lesson about Piets and friendly farmers.
Sorry to have to put you all through the tale the Dr said it would get easier each
time I tell it One step at a time he says I got 11 more to go
Wow I feel better now for sharing
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:25:22
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
John wrote:
I fit in the standard width naked and greased.
John,
Please do us all a favor and NOT share with us the details of how you know this
to be true.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Thanks for the insight into the Fairchild Jack. I'm ordering the drawings
off a guy on ebay. Should be good for study. I'm putting together a list
of things I liked about my 10 years of piet flying, and those that I'd like
changed. I have the bug to design my own as part of the fun, so hey why n
ot build a bigger piet? Maybe in 80 years a bunch of guys will spend their
day jawboning about purist 'Super Piet's'
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:53 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
I say go for it, Steve. Bill Rewey has talked for years about wanting to b
uild a "Super" Piet. He was wanting to make the wing 3' longer. I'd go ev
en further and make it at least 4' more, to get the wing loading down to so
mething close to that of a J-3 (7.15 lb/sq ft). My Piet at gross has a win
g loading of almost 8 lbs/sq ft. The old rule of thumb for airplanes was:
If the wing loading in lbs/sq ft and the power loading in lbs/hp added up
to more than 25, you've got a sluggish climbing airplane. My Piet at 1195
lbs gross (full fuel, me and a 160 lb passenger) has a wing loading of 7.97
lbs/sq ft and a power loading of 18.38, for a total of 26.35. Loaded like
that, I get a good solid 100 ft/min climb rate. With a bigger wing and the
power of that LOM engine you should be able to get it well under 25 total.
I've flown a Fairchild 22 and can honestly say that a Pietenpol is a better
flying airplane. Those full span ailerons on the Fairchild seem to contri
bute little but adverse yaw. Visibility on the ground is worse, too (but t
he Fairchild 22 I've been flying has a radial engine, which requires S-turn
ing to see around when taxiing). The Farchild is much heavier on the contr
ols. Cool airplane, though.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize. I
'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
First off if you're a purist, this isn't going to sit well, my only excuse
is that I have built and flown one to the plans (mostly)
So hear goes...
Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG moun
ted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out so far.
Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
I looked around at other parasol designs and there is the Baking Duce, and
the Fairchild 22. What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22 w
ith the pietenpol tail....
Just wondering what you might think of it...
Steve E
Low and Slow Since 1929
Pietenpol Aircamper
steve(at)byu.edu
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
So who own's Corky's 1CC? anyone on the list? I don't remember hearing much about
it...
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Steveee wrote-
>I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize.
>I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
Well, given that this is the Piet list, you're going to get opinions that are biased
towards the Piet!
>Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
>mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out so far.
You're imagining something along the lines of Corky's NX31CC, the "Southern Comfort"
(for those who desire/require a bit more room to stretch out).
>Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre on his
Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power and weight,
but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
>What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22 with the pietenpol tail....
Now there you go making a Frankenstein out of two perfectly good airplanes ;o)
If you want to take the time and effort to figure out how to make it all work,
more power to ya but you'll be out there plowing new ground.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
Well...so much for "what happens on the farm..stays on the farm..."
-----Original Message-----
>From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
>Sent: Jan 29, 2008 10:35 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
>
>
>It is a sad tale I found my self on this small obscure road just past the pryor
Oklahoma. When I came upon a nice little spread owned by a Texas chicken farmer.
I pulled into the drive way and was promptly greeted by this rather tall
farmer type in bib overalls. The farmer invited me to see a project he was working
on, intrigud I agreed to follow him to his work shop where he had the makins
of an airplane he told me he was building a model A Pietenpol, and yes he
sure was. He offered me a beer or two and soon offered me a chance to sit in his
airplane. Well the first try didn't go so well. He suggested I remove some
of the bulky clothing soon I was naked then he handed me some grease suggesting
it as an approved method. Next think I knew I was in the rear pit seated and
making the flying noise. I turned back to tell the farmer it worked only to
find Markle running down the drive way with my cloths in hand laughing as he
took off with all my belongings wallet keys cash an a
!
> ll.
>
>Embarrasing as it was I learned a valuable lesson about Piets and friendly farmers.
>
>Sorry to have to put you all through the tale the Dr said it would get easier
each time I tell it One step at a time he says I got 11 more to go
>
>Wow I feel better now for sharing
>
>Thanks
>
>John
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
>
>Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:25:22
>To:
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
>
>
>
>John wrote:
>
>I fit in the standard width naked and greased.
>
>
>John,
>Please do us all a favor and NOT share with us the details of how you know this
to be true.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Steve,
I have Corky's second project (his 31CC). I don't use that number in my ID, because
that registration number expired and was taken before I bought the project
and could renew it. Corky told me he thought it had expired, and he was right.
(A guy with a Baron had it earlier, then relapsed, before Corky had it,
and he got it when Corky let it drop.) I have registered NX44TT. When the project
looks more like an airplane, and I feel more like it is really my project
now, I will start using that ID in my emails, as well as using 31CC, Corky's
former ID, to help other builders foot with emails of Corky, Oscar, and myself.
I have not done much with the project, certainly less than I have wanted, for I
have had various ailments and several surgeries, esp. since 6-07. I have enoyed
every minute of working and thinking of working on the plane, but physically
some of it has felt like a root canal from the knees down, if that makes any
sense. In any event, I think I am now getting better, and intend to finish
the project and fly it. I have been active on this board for years, and treasure
the inputs of those with great Piet smarts and experience. I have tried to
pay back with whatever insights I have, and have found it all rewarding.
To the best of my knowledge, this project is a stock long-fuze Corvair, except:
-- the fuze is 3 inches wider at the pilot's seatback;
-- the LG mains are moved forward a few inches;
-- the MM is 3" longer than plans for a Continental (an A-65 from Corky).
Corky had cut the spars to BP length. I would like another 2 feet of wingspan
for my greater weight, but I likely will not do anythng about that, except to
try to pick up some airfoil shaped upper surface at the wingtips (hopefully add
a little lift, cut a little drag).
Otherwise, ribs are BP design, spars are 3/4" solid SS, tailwheel is Model T axle,
split springed Cub-like LG mains. Corky built a good plane.
I am 6'1" and weigh 260 lbs. I can get in and out of the plane easily (with steps)
and have plenty of room in the cockpit once in, except for legroom as Corky
had controls configured. [The "steps" today are a short stepstool, but I will
have two steps on the port side for the pilot, when doone.] Moreover, after
I have finished moving the rudder pedals forward and opening the passages in
the plywood for my shins (and 14H shoes), I will fit very well in the plane.
FYI, my great bulk fits in a standard short fuze Piet, even without Chuck Gantzer's
baby oil, but only barefooted, and then my elbows greatly hang out, or otherwise
my hands are possibly hitting the instrument panel. A normal person without
a big fat a____ and with arms shorter than my 36" sleeves would likely
not have such problems. Still, I recommend the long fuze for anyone, period.
I have a goal to weigh 225 by Labor Day, and started an exercise program yesterday--
the first since the first surgery relevant to current problems (6-6-07).
It felt pretty good then and again today. OTOH, I am finishing the plane to
accomodate as much as 270 lbs.-- me, boots and winter clothes-- in the pilot
seat. According to my calculations, oon this project, each 25# of increased pilot
weight moves the CG 1" aft. I hope to add MM length and build it for only
slightly reclined cabanes, assuming 225 lb. pilot weight, then adjust the cabanes
to saccommodate the realities of my gross weight, as needed.
Hope this answers your questions. As is often the case, it is likely way more
than you wanted to know, but I am trying to anticipate both your interests and
questions, as well as those of others on the board.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Sent: Jan 29, 2008 10:04 PM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
>
>
>So who own's Corky's 1CC? anyone on the list? I don't remember hearing much
about it...
>
>Steve E
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
>Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:38 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
>
>
>Steveee wrote-
>
>>I'm dreaming of another piet... this one is going to be a bit oversize.
>>I'm just wondering what the piet group would think about a few things.
>
>Well, given that this is the Piet list, you're going to get opinions that are
biased towards the Piet!
>
>>Imagine a Piet with 2' more wing, 1' more fuse 3" wider. Wings and LG
>>mounted slightly aft of plans, deeper fuselage so your not sticking out so far.
>
>You're imagining something along the lines of Corky's NX31CC, the "Southern Comfort"
(for those who desire/require a bit more room to stretch out).
>
>>Now imagine a LOM inverted engine with a sleek longish cowl.
>
>You're imagining something like what Jim Ducey is doing, putting a Tigre on his
Piet. Not sure how the Menasco and LOM compare to the Tigre for power and weight,
but you're in the same ballpark design-wise.
>
>>What is cooking up in my mind is something like a F-22 with the pietenpol tail....
>
>Now there you go making a Frankenstein out of two perfectly good airplanes ;o)
If you want to take the time and effort to figure out how to make it all work,
more power to ya but you'll be out there plowing new ground.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Butt rib covering
Date: Jan 30, 2008
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual doesn't
seem to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and text
refer to the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open
lattice without much to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to
be cut away around spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have
covered your planes cut it off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top
of the rib or did you carry it all the way across the rib as in the
stitts manual? I have about a foot hanging over now so I can go either
way.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 29, 2008
Owen,
Nothing dicey about my plane.
The St. Croix Pietenpol Aerial.. which is what the biplane part of the design comes
from, suggest 85-150hp engines. The W&B is fine on it. The motor mounts for
the ENMA Tigre are impressive, look like they could handle 300hp. The frame
is solid, built by an A&P with 30 yrs experience, my technical counselor (also
an A&P) was impressed with the construction, so I have no concerns about those
things.
I was concerned about my skill for covering the wings, as there are a lot of fittings,
and wing area (just over 250 sq ft) to cover, so I am taking a 3 day class,
have already gone through a 5 DVD video course on it, have gone through
the EAA video on it and the PolyFiber manual. Suspect it will turn out fine.
How will it perform, well we will see when it flys, however it should end up weighing
about 750lbs empty, with 250 sq ft of wing and 125hp, that should make
for SuperCub take-offs, with enough drag to make a comfortable 65-70 cruise for
an open air two hole biplane. Max speed should be around 95-100mph.
Then engine is a well built aircraft engine, not a converted car engine, the basic
airframe is Grega GN-1, a proven design, the biplane conversion has been done
to quite a few planes. If I seem hesitant and concerned in my posts, well
it is part of my personality more so than a reflection on my view of the project.
I think anyone wanting to get snooty about a plane being a "frankenpiet", has a
petty attitude.
According to the Grega website, John Grega didn't set out to pervert the Pietenpol,
he wanted to be able to put a passenger in the front seat easier, and hang
a modern engine off the Piet, and ended up making a number of changes to accomplish
that end.
Chad Wille's Pietenpol Aerial has a similar story, he wanted to make a biplane
version of a Piet, that modified the original as little as possible. The lower
wing attaches to the same fittings that the lift stuts used, the remainder of
the rigging is as minimally invasive as possible, an existing Piet could be converted
pretty easily.
I didn't start out wanting a white elephant of an airplane, had a lot of J-3 Cub
time and wanted a Cub. Then looked at Piet's as they were more affordable, and
open cockpit. Watching a video of someone get in the front seat, made me think
I might want a GN-1, and then as I was looking for a GN-1 or Piet project,
my biplane GN-1 project showed up and not only met all my criteria, it blew them
away. While I wanted a J-3, I think I will end up with something I wouldn't
trade for a SuperCub.
To each his own,
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161293#161293
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
jimd wrote:
> The St. Croix Pietenpol Aerial.. which is what the biplane part of the design
comes from, suggest 85-150hp engines. The W&B is fine on it.
I'd never looked into the Aerial. Didn't know it was rated for so much
power.
Weight and balance didn't worry me. I know the engine from years of
fascination with the Bucker Jungmann. The weight comes out almost
exactly the same for the 150-hp Tigre as for a Ford A with radiator. I
can't remember the weight difference between the 150 and the 125, but
the smaller engine certainly won't be any heavier.
> The motor mounts for the ENMA Tigre are impressive, look like they could handle
300hp. The frame is solid, built by an A&P with 30 yrs experience, my technical
counselor (also an A&P) was impressed with the construction, so I have no
concerns about those things.
>
Ditto. They've held up for years under the abuse of both serious
aerobatic pilots and ham-fisted students students in the Spanish air
force. It was the pounding a Tigre would give the Piet's wood airframe
that worried me, and now that I know you are using the steel version
it's not an issue.
> I think anyone wanting to get snooty about a plane being a "frankenpiet", has
a petty attitude.
>
I agree. Come to think of it, if I ever build the low-wing Piet
knock-off that keeps drifting around the back of my mind, maybe I'll
name it the Frankenpiet. I kind of like it. (We used to have a Colt. I
outraged my wife by suggesting that we name it the "Mustang Minus.")
Incidentally, if you have not already done so you might want to check in
with the Bucker community. No one else has nearly that much experience
with Tigre engines.
I drifted away from that world when it became clear that a Bucker was
not in my foreseeable future, but eight or ten years ago there were two
schools of thought about the Tigre. Some Bucker pilots did not want to
get any farther than gliding distance from the runway with it. Others
thought it was a fine engine.
Actually, there was a third group. They thought it was probably a good
engine hampered by the fact that no one really knew how to run and
maintain it. At that point, no one had translated the manuals for it.
Unless you understood technical Spanish or knew someone who did, you
were SOL. If someone has produced a translation since then, it should
make the Tigre a much more viable choice.
Which leaves me with two questions: How much does a Tigre cost these
days, and where can I get one? There must be something I can do with it,
even within the limits of Sport Pilot, which is where I'm stuck these days.
Again, all success with your project.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Butt rib covering
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Scott,
Carry the fabric all the way across the rib and then cut openings as
needed for cables, etc...
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual
doesn't seem to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and
text refer to the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open
lattice without much to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to
be cut away around spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have
covered your planes cut it off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top
of the rib or did you carry it all the way across the rib as in the
stitts manual? I have about a foot hanging over now so I can go either
way.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Purist Help Desk
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dan & Group,
There must be some kind of support group for original Pietenpol purist
sufferers, no ? After all there are support groups for just about
every malady these days.
I think one of the things that drew me to build a Pietenpol was to see
all the little innovations that people incorporated into the design over
the years away from the basic 'this looks pretty homely' design when I
visited Brodhead. Another thing that drew me BACK into the Pietnpol
world was the passing of the old guard who were a snooty, self-righteous
bunch who looked down on younger builders or those with fresh new
ideas. My then girlfriend in the early 90's used to say that some of
these Pietenpol guys acted as if they 'just stepped out of a Lear jet'.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Owen,
Thanks for the comments.
I would love to have a Bucker Jungmann as well, and was aware that the Tigre was
the engine in a number of them. With a Cub over my budget, there was no chance
of a Bucker.
It took a lot of searching, but I found someone with an electronic copy of the
Tigre manuals, and Oscar Zuniga said he or his cousin could translate them to
English. Sent him all but the biggest file, will probably have to snail mail a
CD to him, as its pretty big.
Not sure where you find the engines. Quite a few of the Bucker folks have multiple
ones with their projects, see adds on barnstormer for Buckers with Tigre engines,
and a couple spares, frequently. Bucker Prado sells parts and complete
engines, at high prices, like 24K for a complete parts Tigre (not necessarily
a ready to go engine.) On the biplane forum site there is a Bucker sub group
and they discuss the engines from time to time, and have said they can be had
for as little as a $1000. So like anything else thats old, you can find deals,
and ultimately they cost whatever you and seller agree to, plus shipping.
If someone offered me big bucks for my engine I would probably sell and go for
a 110hp Rotec Radial. The original Pietenpol Aerial biplane had a radial engine
and looked pretty cool, but my reasons would be to have a current engine with
a company still in business behind it. If the Tigre doesn't work out I will
go with an 0-290, or 0-200, as I think I will need at least a 100 hp with my
weight, the extra wing, and the hot summers we get here in the midwest.
I am including a couple of pics of biplane piets. Notice one has a 6cyl lycoming,
those are heavier than the Tigre.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161352#161352
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/apietenpol_756.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpols_green_129.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
jimd wrote:
> Bucker Prado sells parts and complete engines, at high prices, like 24K for a
complete parts Tigre (not necessarily a ready to go engine.)
For that kind of money, I'd use the LOM.
> On the biplane forum site there is a Bucker sub group and they discuss the engines
from time to time, and have said they can be had for as little as a $1000.
So like anything else thats old, you can find deals, and ultimately they cost
whatever you and seller agree to, plus shipping.
>
I don't know the biplane forum. Where can I find it?
> If someone offered me big bucks for my engine I would probably sell and go for
a 110hp Rotec Radial.
What a sweet package that would make! Though I'd probably find it
necessary to build Fairchild-style outrigger mains to go with it.
> If the Tigre doesn't work out I will go with an 0-290, or 0-200, as I think I
will need at least a 100 hp with my weight, the extra wing, and the hot summers
we get here in the midwest.
>
Sure. Actually, if I were looking at the O-200 I'd probably one of
William Wynne's Corvair conversions. A reliable 100hp, maybe a bit more
if you want it, and six small bangs instead of four larger ones. Smooth.
Also relatively cheap to maintain and rebuild. Not too much heavier than
the equivalent Continental.
Not that anyone needs to make the case for the Corvair among Piet
people. I need to remember who I'm talking to.
> I am including a couple of pics of biplane piets. Notice one has a 6cyl lycoming,
those are heavier than the Tigre.
Ouch!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Any Piet projects in/around Denver?
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Gotta check out Rick Holland's Piet down in Castle Rock (you'll figure
out why they call it Castle Rock when you get there) . I visited Rick a
couple of years ago and had a great time. Rick's home is in the middle
of some beautiful country. The view from the front porch is almost
breathtaking. I bet with all this cold weather, it really is
breathtaking.
Barry Davis
Big Piet Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Piet projects in/around Denver?
I have a 2 week trip to Denver coming up......
If there's anyone in the area, please contact me offlist and let's get
together!
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Owen,
Corvair would probably be the best choice, as I could be sure of what I had, and
could afford it.
Read that the Corvair's burn about four and a half gallons of fuel an hour, thats
half what the Tigre will. (And the Tigre needs a pint of oil an hour, due to
being inverted I think.) Wouldn't take many hours for that to make a big difference.
With mogas having alcohol in it now, and 100LL costing a lot, it could
cut the fuel cost in half or better. Over the course of a 1000 hrs that could
make a heck of a difference. Maybe my next project should be refitting with
a Corvair?
Anyone have a Venturay conversion flying in a Piet? They looked interesting, sell
complete engine for $6200 I think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161406#161406
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Wow, what a neat picture! There's just nothing like a nice yellow Cub sitting
in a hangar... :-)
Ok, that really IS a nice picture of your Piet. I love seeing the prop in motion
like that.
They have a tractor identical to mine in that hangar...no huge surprise since Henry
made millions of those tractors.
Cool pic...
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Jan 30, 2008 11:52 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
>
>
> Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
>tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plywood
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Will probably go plywood. Have to get some I guess. Need to watch weight where
I can.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161422#161422
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Nice picture. Looks like it could have been taken 40 years ago.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Subject: Butt rib covering
I used 2" strip of ply attached the ribs all the way around, but it wasn't
enough. After a few hours the sucker puckered. Both wings right at the sp
ars. I discovered that the pull of the fabric was enough to move the ribs
outward toward the tips at the spars. I fixed it by installing spar caps
=BC" high and 2" long on top and bottom of the spars and pulled things tigh
t again with a couple of C-clamps. It required removing the wings and lots
of figgiting to get it fixed.
At that point cutting it off at the edge of the ply was no problem. If I h
ad wrapped it, I would have had a heck of a time fixing the pucker.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual doesn't see
m to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and text refer to
the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open lattice without m
uch to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to be cut away around
spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have covered your planes cut it
off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top of the rib or did you carry i
t all the way across the rib as in the stitts manual? I have about a foot h
anging over now so I can go either way.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
jimd wrote:
> Maybe my next project should be refitting with a Corvair?
>
Sounds reasonable to me. I'm likely to use it in the Piet, and then in a
Wittman Buttercup. Third project, assuming I live that long, will
probably be a Baby Lakes. I'd use the Corvair in that as well if I
thought the crank would stand up to aerobatic forces.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sport Aviation Magazine
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Wow! Have you seen who is on the front cover of Sport Aviation ? Way to go Richard.
That's a great picture!
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161489#161489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: translating from Spanish
Date: Jan 30, 2008
Jim wrote-
>I found someone with an electronic copy of the Tigre manuals, and
>Oscar Zuniga said he or his cousin could translate them to English.
Yes, and I started with the magneto manual (probably the one that interests Jim
the least!) and it isn't too difficult. It's a labor of love as well as a way
to keep Dr. Alzheimer at bay. They say that keeping one's mind challenged and
engaged helps stave off "senility". My Dad, all but one of my uncles and aunts,
and various other of my family members have all slipped into Alzheimer's
clutches. I can't keep him away forever, but it sure is fun keeping my mind
and body engaged in fun stuff like airplanes, engines, and trying to fly! Jim,
if you have the patience to wait for me to translate the documents, I'm sure
having fun keeping Alzheimer outside my hangar doing it.
And like they say about losing your memory, you meet new people every day... even
those you've known all your life ;o)
Back to inline inverted engines, I have a friend up in the Portland, Oregon area
with a Bucker Jungmann but his has a pancake engine. The inverted inlines are
certainly more interesting, but -dang- can they be expensive to find, operate,
and repair.
Oscar Zuniga
Owner & pilot of traditional, pure-bred Pietenpol Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote:
> Somewhere on the net I saw where someone had built a hanger the same way Bernard
built his.
That would be Joe Koehler, in one of those towns north of Keene, NH.
Alstead, I think. He wrote an article about it in Kitplanes in the early
to mid 1990s. It was his second Piet, the first one being a C-85-powered
Aircamper that performed very nicely. His rib jig is in my garage,
waiting for me to get my empenage in gear.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: translating from Spanish
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Oscar,
I am patient, and appreciate anything you do, as you certainly are doing me a favor.
The magneto's are interesting to me if for no other reason than their size,
they look almost like dual starters sitting on top of the engine. One is complete,
one is missing a bolt like thing on the propeller side with a wire feeding
in to it. If I knew what that was called I might be able to find one, though
i think I will end up having to fabricate one.
Those automatic translation programs are funny, I played with them a bit. Have
a voice typing program that you can talk into a microphone and the program converts
your words to text.. if you watch it you stop every few seconds, its a hoot
to talk for about 10 minutes before looking, as then there will be crazy stuff
written out. Lot of fun, but slower than typing normally for me.
Thanks Oscar,
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161536#161536
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Have to admit a Tailwind or Buttercup is very appealing. Heard one of the Tailwinds
was able to run 170 on 85hp. Thats pretty good for a 1950's design. Saw that
someone made a retractable gear one, and wondered what it would take to make
one with a cantilever aluminum wet wing, with a Corvair engine, would make
a pretty cool cross county plane... course it would be smarter to leave it as
designed, as that is a proven design.
Think the highly touted Corvair crank failures would make me think twice about
using one for anything aerobatic, certainly wouldn't do it with a prop extension.
Probably like the GPU engines, if it wasn't designed to handle forces from
propellers, it may work but you wouldn't want to push it to any kind of extreme
limit, which is what aerobatics can easily do. Wonder if anyone has built one
for that purpose, put in inverted fuel/oil, etc?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161539#161539
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: translating from Spanish
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Oscar:
If you need help with the translation let me know I can help.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Yes, and I started with the magneto manual (probably the one that
interests Jim the least!) and it isn't too difficult. It's a labor of love
as well as a way to keep Dr. Alzheimer at bay. They say that keeping one's
mind challenged and engaged helps stave off "senility". My Dad, all but one
of my uncles and aunts, and various other of my family members have all
slipped into Alzheimer's clutches. I can't keep him away forever, but it
sure is fun keeping my mind and body engaged in fun stuff like airplanes,
engines, and trying to fly! Jim, if you have the patience to wait for me to
translate the documents, I'm sure having fun keeping Alzheimer outside my
hangar doing it.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Butt rib covering
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Steve,
Not sure I can visualize what you are describing. I too used the
1/16x2" cap around the perimeter of the rib. I assume you secured the
end rib to the spare and it still pulled loose from the spar?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
I used 2" strip of ply attached the ribs all the way around, but it
wasn't enough. After a few hours the sucker puckered. Both wings right
at the spars. I discovered that the pull of the fabric was enough to
move the ribs outward toward the tips at the spars. I fixed it by
installing spar caps =BC" high and 2" long on top and bottom of the
spars and pulled things tight again with a couple of C-clamps. It
required removing the wings and lots of figgiting to get it fixed.
At that point cutting it off at the edge of the ply was no problem. If
I had wrapped it, I would have had a heck of a time fixing the pucker.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual doesn't
seem to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and text
refer to the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open
lattice without much to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to
be cut away around spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have
covered your planes cut it off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top
of the rib or did you carry it all the way across the rib as in the
stitts manual? I have about a foot hanging over now so I can go either
way.
-Scott
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: For Sale - Off Subject
Date: Jan 31, 2008
My tailwheel instructor's father built most of an Acrosport before he
passed. (Quality workmanship)This is for sale.
If anyone is interested, I have pics. Please contact me off the Piet
Group or call Tim Rowley directly at 770-301-1573
Thanks Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oversize piet
jimd wrote:
> Have to admit a Tailwind or Buttercup is very appealing. Heard one of the Tailwinds
was able to run 170 on 85hp. Thats pretty good for a 1950's design.
Or any other decade. Mr. Wittman knew more about squeezing mph out of
hp, not to mention $, than just about anyone else who has ever designed
a plane.
> Saw that someone made a retractable gear one, and wondered what it would take
to make one with a cantilever aluminum wet wing, with a Corvair engine, would
make a pretty cool cross county plane... course it would be smarter to leave
it as designed, as that is a proven design.
>
I suspect Mr. Wittman would have hated the idea of adding the weight of
retractable gear to his design, and it probably would not add much to
the efficiency of his steel spring gear. Not a lot of drag there. (See
comment above!)
Someone did make an aluminum wing for the Tailwind, and plans were
available, last I heard. Someone on the Tailwind list ought to know
where to find him, and he used to run a classified in the back of Sport
Aviation--maybe ten years ago?--if that doesn't work out. The struts
were still used; it's probably lighter than a cantilever wing. At the
time, most Tailwind enthusiasts seemed to figure that the original wing
was a known quantity, so why mess with it? Also, it seemed like most
people just preferred working with wood.
> Think the highly touted Corvair crank failures would make me think twice about
using one for anything aerobatic ... Wonder if anyone has built one for that
purpose, put in inverted fuel/oil, etc?
Not that I've heard. Even with a nitrided crank, it's a bit underbuilt
for that kind of force, and most people who have looked into the Corvair
probably realize it.
Of course, perhaps one could add a belt speed reducer (even 1:1) between
the crank and the prop to take up the forces the crank wouldn't like. Of
course, it also would add weight.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Thank you, Jim & guys.
That photo was taken by a local Stinson 108 pilot and all round nice guy
Brian Orians back last August when they had a little doing for this guy,
super nice guy, Don Helmick
who has owned and lived at Valley City Airport since the early 1960's.
That is Don by his Cub on snow
skis from a year or two ago.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Florida trip
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
We had a fantastic trip down to Daytona Florida.We went to Palatka and
Elden Jackson was really a great guy to come back to the airstrip that
day to show me around their hangers and planes.The only thing I regret
was that I didn't get a picture of Elden and I standing beside their
Piet.I would like to thank Elden for his hospitality and time.I have
included a few pictures of their aircraft in the hanger.If I ever get
down that way again and the offer is still on the table,I will take that
plane ride and spend more time for a few brews.Many thanks to the
wonderful people at Palatka airstrip.Thanks for making our trip extra
special!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Better name for "big" piet
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Hi
Instead of oversize Piet, we need a better name to describe the full cut p
ietenpol.
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better th
an OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Subject: Butt rib covering
Aye.
That is what happened. I glued and nailed it, but after a while it all poi
nts of contact between the root-end ribs on both wing panels began a march
toward the wingtip. The movement resulted in the 1/16 x 2 inch strip to d
evelop quite a wave at the spar. Very unsightly. I fixed it by adding mor
e glue surface area behind the rib/spar intersection and pulled it tight wh
ile the glue set. Fine since.
Stevee
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
Steve,
Not sure I can visualize what you are describing. I too used the 1/16x2" c
ap around the perimeter of the rib. I assume you secured the end rib to th
e spare and it still pulled loose from the spar?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
I used 2" strip of ply attached the ribs all the way around, but it wasn't
enough. After a few hours the sucker puckered. Both wings right at the sp
ars. I discovered that the pull of the fabric was enough to move the ribs
outward toward the tips at the spars. I fixed it by installing spar caps
=BC" high and 2" long on top and bottom of the spars and pulled things tigh
t again with a couple of C-clamps. It required removing the wings and lots
of figgiting to get it fixed.
At that point cutting it off at the edge of the ply was no problem. If I h
ad wrapped it, I would have had a heck of a time fixing the pucker.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual doesn't see
m to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and text refer to
the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open lattice without m
uch to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to be cut away around
spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have covered your planes cut it
off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top of the rib or did you carry i
t all the way across the rib as in the stitts manual? I have about a foot h
anging over now so I can go either way.
-Scott
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
"WideBody" Piet
Steve Glass wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px
} body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Hi
Instead of oversize Piet, we need a better name to describe the full cut pietenpol.
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better than OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
- Air Camper XL
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:50 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Better name for "big" piet
Hi
Instead of oversize Piet,? we need a better name to describe the full cut pietenpol.
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better than OVERSIZE.
How about
-?? Piet Plus
-?? Piet plus 2
-?? Piet plus 3 etc etc
-?? Supersize Piet
-?? Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
How bout something we olders dream about " Bigger Pieters "
Nathan
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
Monster piete
Piet a Palooza
Pieten Bilt
Piet a dactyle
Colossal Piet
Wide flyer
Perfect Piet
Pure Piet
Piet a tude
Nothing butt Piet
Neat Piet
Sweet Piet
Piet power
Pietenpol Air camper 1
wide Piet King of sky
to name a few
John
In a message dated 1/31/2008 1:27:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
redsglass(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hi
Instead of oversize Piet, we need a better name to describe the full cut
pietenpol.
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better
than OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
you are the man!
In a message dated 1/31/2008 2:20:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
How bout something we olders dream about " Bigger Pieters "
Nathan
____________________________________
Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489) in the new year.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
Wide flyers never die, the just get bigger pieters built
the borrowed theme of an old truckers saying
John
In a message dated 1/31/2008 2:20:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
How bout something we olders dream about " Bigger Pieters "
Nathan
____________________________________
Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489) in the new year.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plywood
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 31, 2008
About the .040, I had a couple reasons to use it. First it was available reasonably
priced. Second, my upper wing is .024, while .016 was called for and it is
a bit too flimsy, but should be out of way (except maybe for birds..) so .040
seemed stiffer.
The only benefit to it would be I think it would be less likely to dent then .024
or .016.
However think the nicest looking leading edges have been wood, with wood the coefficient
of expansion is close to the rest of the wood in the wing, so it can
all be glued together to make a solid unit. So I will look for wood for the lower
wing.
Not going to redo the upper though, so the question is, what is the best way to
deal with the nails? Saw in the old glider manual a suggestion to put solder
on them (course they were talking the old acid core, and were also looking at
recovering their planes every couple years.) Cloth tape will cover it, but sounds
like nails work there way up. Anyone tried epoxy or anything like that (maybe
soaking the cloth tape?) Will ask folks at the Stewart Sytems class this weekend.
Appreciate the common sense, sometimes I deviate from it a wee bit.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161642#161642
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Butt rib covering
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Oh, so you saying the rib itself bowed in not the fabric pulled away
from the 2x 1/16 rib cap. I have the braces per plan and it is glued
full length of the uprights so I can't imagine that happening. My
concern was the end of the wing being open or the fabric covering it. I
went ahead and covered it but with the openings for the spars and cable
it dosen't seem like it would do much if the 2 inch strips didn't hold.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
Aye.
That is what happened. I glued and nailed it, but after a while it
all points of contact between the root-end ribs on both wing panels
began a march toward the wingtip. The movement resulted in the 1/16 x
2 inch strip to develop quite a wave at the spar. Very unsightly. I
fixed it by adding more glue surface area behind the rib/spar
intersection and pulled it tight while the glue set. Fine since.
Stevee
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
Steve,
Not sure I can visualize what you are describing. I too used the
1/16x2" cap around the perimeter of the rib. I assume you secured the
end rib to the spare and it still pulled loose from the spar?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
I used 2" strip of ply attached the ribs all the way around, but it
wasn't enough. After a few hours the sucker puckered. Both wings right
at the spars. I discovered that the pull of the fabric was enough to
move the ribs outward toward the tips at the spars. I fixed it by
installing spar caps =BC" high and 2" long on top and bottom of the
spars and pulled things tight again with a couple of C-clamps. It
required removing the wings and lots of figgiting to get it fixed.
At that point cutting it off at the edge of the ply was no problem.
If I had wrapped it, I would have had a heck of a time fixing the
pucker.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:46 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual
doesn't seem to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and
text refer to the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open
lattice without much to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to
be cut away around spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have
covered your planes cut it off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top
of the rib or did you carry it all the way across the rib as in the
stitts manual? I have about a foot hanging over now so I can go either
way.
-Scott
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/contribution Use the Matronics List Features
Navigator to browsehttp://www.matro - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.com
-Matt Dralle, List
Admihref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.c
om/con
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Possible engine alternative
Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) mentioned the following in his
entry for 11/16/06:
"This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines
that weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even
lower rpm. GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the
factory. It cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than
twice the thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in
production since about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in
both long and short block versions. Just be sure you get it with the
Industrial Engine cam instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine
version runs at a much higher rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although
I'm not familiar with its specs."
I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued.
I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that
engine. But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an
animal on the nose of a Piet. Anyone?
I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop?
Thanks.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: jimisown(at)aol.com
I was wondering about the same. What about a Buick 215 V-8?
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 5:13 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
?
Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) mentioned the following in his
entry for 11/16/06:?
?
"This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines
that weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even
lower rpm. GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the
factory. It cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than
twice the thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in
production since about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in
both long and short block versions. Just be sure you get it with the
Industrial Engine cam instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine
version runs at a much higher rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although
I'm not familiar with its specs."?
?
I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued.
I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that
engine. But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an
animal on the nose of a Piet. Anyone??
?
I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop??
?
Thanks.?
?
Owen?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
jimisown(at)aol.com wrote:
> I was wondering about the same. What about a Buick 215 V-8?
I don't suppose it could weigh much more than a Model A. My memory isn't
very reliable, but it claims that Mr. Wittman was getting about 125 hp
out of it spinning a small prop at nearly 3500 rpm. No idea what the
power curve would give you at revs suitable for a Piet-size prop.
How long is the prop used in Piet Corvair installations? How fast does
it turn?
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: "Ken Chambers" <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Hey Owen
There is a Curtiss replica that taxis and swings a big prop with the big GM
4, the 181 I think they call it. It's a non-flying replica so it has no
hours. You might be able to google and find it.
A couple of things I've noticed with this engine, though. It's heavy at
about 285 pounds. I'm not sure how this compares to the actual weight of a
Model A when it's converted for use in a Pietenpol..
Big 4s like this are known for rocking front to back. This is a really big
4, it doesn't have balance shafts, and it has a reputation for vibration
among hot rodders. I've seen them recommend against using it for this
reason.
The crankshaft durability is unknown in this application, whereas the Model
A crankshaft has proven to hold up.
Ken, who goofs off at work by researching alternatives to Model As
On Jan 31, 2008 5:52 PM, Owen Davies wrote:
>
> jimisown(at)aol.com wrote:
> > I was wondering about the same. What about a Buick 215 V-8?
> I don't suppose it could weigh much more than a Model A. My memory isn't
> very reliable, but it claims that Mr. Wittman was getting about 125 hp
> out of it spinning a small prop at nearly 3500 rpm. No idea what the
> power curve would give you at revs suitable for a Piet-size prop.
>
> How long is the prop used in Piet Corvair installations? How fast does
> it turn?
>
> Owen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Plywood
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8 foot strips
which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly cut and very
nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker plywood for support.
I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the shipping.
Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/.
They also carry birch aircraft plywood.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Try this.......
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
>
> Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/)
> mentioned the following in his entry for 11/16/06:
>
> "This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines that
> weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even lower rpm.
> GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the factory. It
> cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than twice the
> thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in production since
> about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in both long and short
> block versions. Just be sure you get it with the Industrial Engine cam
> instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine version runs at a much higher
> rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although I'm not familiar with its
> specs."
>
> I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued.
> I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that engine.
> But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an animal on the
> nose of a Piet. Anyone?
>
> I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
gcardinal wrote:
> Try this.......
>
> http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp
Looks like the engine Bob is thinking of must have been retired. None of
these fits his description, and none of them looks like a good
replacement for the A.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
I have a brand spankin never been run ford 1970s vintage ford (2.0L I believe)?SOHC
Pinto engine that I am seriously considering using. All the spec I was able
to locate indicate 85 hp at what rpm I have no idea. I am considering that
since I have to go through it anyway I would try ?to get the RPM down to around
3000 with full hp output. I am thinking to do that I will need a stroker kit,
rated cam, pistons and some work done on the head. All of which I am uncertain
about the availability or a redrive unit. Either way I got bunches of research
to do and few severely?limited sources.? I am open for suggestions.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: gcardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
?
Try this.......?
?
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>?
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:13 PM?
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative?
?
>?
> Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) > mentioned the following in his entry for 11/16/06:?
>?
> "This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines that > weigh
less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even lower rpm. > GM
makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the factory. It > cranks out
an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than twice the > thrust of the
Model A. The engine, which has been in production since > about 1965, is also
available used and overhauled, in both long and short > block versions. Just be
sure you get it with the Industrial Engine cam > instead of the Marine Engine
cam. The marine version runs at a much higher > rpm. Ford makes a similar engine
although I'm not familiar with its > specs."?
>?
> I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued. > I'll
drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that engine. > But first
I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an animal on the > nose of
a Piet. Anyone??
>?
> I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop??
>?
> Thanks.?
>?
> Owen?
>?
>?
>?
> ?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Ken Chambers wrote:
> There is a Curtiss replica that taxis and swings a big prop with the
> big GM 4, the 181 I think they call it. It's a non-flying replica so
> it has no hours. You might be able to google and find it.
Closest I could find was some sites with both the Curtiss and the
Caudron G.4.
> A couple of things I've noticed with this engine, though. It's heavy
> at about 285 pounds. I'm not sure how this compares to the actual
> weight of a Model A when it's converted for use in a Pietenpol.
About 30 lb heavier, I think, but it's been a long time since I
refreshed that memory.
> The crankshaft durability is unknown in this application, whereas the
> Model A crankshaft has proven to hold up.
At this point, I am just doing a thought experiment, trying to figure
out how cheaply one could get a two-place plane in the air these days.
The Piet is the obvious place to begin, but the key is still to get the
cost of the powerplant as low as possible. I'm trying to find something
cheaper than an A.
Thanks for the info.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Magazine
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Dan
My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating.
Thanks
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine
>
> Wow! Have you seen who is on the front cover of Sport Aviation ? Way to
> go Richard. That's a great picture!
>
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161489#161489
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
747 Piet?
380 Piet?
http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm
Clif :-)
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be
better than OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/31/2008 8:30 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Names for Pietenpol
Members:
Before I finish a design logo for the "WideBody" Pietenpol, should we all not
agree on one identifying name? Keep the names coming............
So lets come to an agreement with a name and run with it.....lets "tally" up
the votes.
Suggestions.....
- WB-PietPiet Plus - Bigger Pieters
- Piet plus 2 - Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet - Jumbo Piet
- Air Camper XL - Monster piete
- Piet a Palooza - Pieten Bilt
- Piet a dactyle - Colossal Piet
- Wide flyer - Perfect Piet
- Pure Piet - Piet a tude
- Nothing butt Piet - Neat Piet
- Sweet Piet - Piet power
- Pietenpol Air camper 1 - Wide Piet King of sky
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2 - Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet - Jumbo Piet
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 01, 2008
owen,
The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project.
Something like the one in Boulder thats been on Barnstormers for quite a while.
Think he wanted $6200, it was Gary Ennerking's plane, look at westcoastpiet
or Barnstormers to see pictures. That plane has a corvair engine, workmanship
looks good, and compared to building from scratch you couldn't touch the price.
Just an example, ... but I looked around a lot, and was very close to buying the
one I mentioned, then my biplane project came along and I bought it instead,
spent a lot transporting it, spent money on a pod for storage, a shed to hold
all the stuff kicked out of my garage.. etc. So the for sale price is not even
the price it will be when you actually have it, but even so, I don't think you
can find less expensive than the right uncompleted project.. and piets are
pretty reasonable for the most part. For a one holer the smith mini's seem to
go cheap as projects.. but I could barely fit in one when I was 10 yrs old, by
11 they were too small.
Anyway, thats my thought on it.
By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric covering
class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161784#161784
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover
!
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and potential
builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation, Dick.
That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your radial
powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north.
You've done us all very proud !
Mike C.
PS-- you even shaved for that photo !
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 2 minute video about Oshkosh
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dick N. is shown in this nice 2 minute overview of what Oshkosh is all
about. Short clip but nice of him running his engine for
the crowds during the show.
Mike C.
http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=1389983003
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard WW based
Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine he did
most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down.
We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's with
a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components instead of
making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to have some work
done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan conversion our cost would
drop roughly another $1500 at least.
I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield an engine
that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of power
by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator, which keeps
cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination, with plenty of
reliable information on the conversion and installation process. I would think
this would save you time and money by reducing the variables that you have
to deal with and preventing you from having to figure it all out yourself on an
as yet untested engine.
Owen Davies wrote:> The crankshaft durability is unknown
in this application, whereas the
> Model A crankshaft has proven to hold up.
At this point, I am just doing a thought experiment, trying to figure
out how cheaply one could get a two-place plane in the air these days.
The Piet is the obvious place to begin, but the key is still to get the
cost of the powerplant as low as possible. I'm trying to find something
cheaper than an A.
Thanks for the info.
Owen
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Magazine
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Dick,
Way to go!!
The cover and article came out REAL good. Great for the Piet world and the
Sun N Fun wood shop too.
Skip
> Dan
> My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating.
> Thanks
> Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
jimd wrote:
> The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project.
>
Agreed unreservedly. A friend in Maine recently missed a nearly-finished
Kitfox with FWF for $2500. And perhaps ten years ago, I missed a
ready-to-cover Baby Lakes, lacking only engine and instruments, for
$800! The moment I heard about it, I ran across the field, only to find
someone backing up a trailer for it--this after it had sat around the
"fly market" for five hours, virtually ignored. I still cry every time I
think about it. (Going to get a tissue now.) And I still want a Baby Lakes.
> By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric
covering class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure.
Snow. That's that white stuff, isn't it? I think we had that in New
Hampshire. (In fact, it was the biggest single reason we moved to
Florida! I hate the cold!)
And Ryan Mueller wrote:
> One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a
> standard WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately
> $2500. I imagine he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the
> cost down.
It's hard to beat that price, of course, but that is why I am looking
for something else. I almost surely will use the Wynne Corvair, much as
I love the sound of a Ford, but if something even cheaper appears we
could just about get a Piet in the air for the cost of most engines.
That could open flying up to people for whom even a Corvair conversion
would be painful to buy in a single lump, and this strikes me as being a
very worthwhile goal.
Wouldn't help me much, alas. Here in Florida's so-called Treasure Coast,
they want a whole lot of any treasure you might have just to rent a
T-hangar. Not sure what tie-downs go for, as I hate the idea of leaving
a plane out in this sun.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Ron Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net>
Subject: Re: Name for Bigger Piets
How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plywood
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
I'm jealous.
Back in October, when I enquired at Boulter, they said there was no
problem to cut down the sheets, and ship across the border into Canada.
They just needed an address to calculate the shipping cost. Well, the
shipping was going to be $150. So,even if the wood was free, it would
still be too expensive.
I hate UPS.
BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Jim Courtney <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
Piet-Ola.....You know, like Shin-OLa!
Clif Dawson wrote: .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage
{ FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } 747 Piet?
380 Piet?
http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm
Clif :-)
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better than
OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
---------------------------------
Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net>
Subject: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection
Hi Friends,
Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites. There is no shortage
of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort direct drive, I will be
using a homebrew, constant flow injection system with no electronics. The core
idea came from the book "Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings
will do the job --- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick
will enable zero thrust operations. A light wooden propeller on a high compression
engine will quit turning if the pilot slows it too much. Mustn't let that
happen.
A little open cockpit parasol monoplane (Pietenpol) peels off into
a steep slip to clear the tall spruce trees guarding a river gravel bar where
the king salmon run. Brppp, brppp, brppp sounds are trumpeting from the short
Allison style stacks. How cool is that? Not much vertical surface aft of the
aerodynamic center, large control surfaces, ignition interrupt to zero thrust
-- the Piet can descend fast enough to get in plenty of trouble...don't let
it bite you.
Happy landings,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
Where the Temp. registers minus 28 degrees F.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Possible engine alternative
Date: Feb 01, 2008
http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Engine_cost.html
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard
WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine
he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down.
We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's
with a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components
instead of making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to
have some work done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan
conversion our cost would drop roughly another $1500 at least.
I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield
an engine that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of
power by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator,
which keeps cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination,
with plenty of reliable information on the conversion and installation
process. I would think
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
What to call a Piet with more room in the cockpit?
How about...
Comfortable
>:-}
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection
Got any more details on that injection system? Sounds intriguing.
>
>
>Hi Friends,
> Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites.
>There is no shortage of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort
>direct drive, I will be using a homebrew, constant flow injection
>system with no electronics. The core idea came from the book
>"Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings will do the job
>--- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick will
>enable zero thrust operations.
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Subject: Alternate engines
I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
Just FYI; there isn't any legal liability in writing about "This is what I did"
and This is what happened." There is no implied inducement to try the same things.
Most useful information that is kept out of the pulic eye, such as the many non-standard
engine conversions, is kept out because the holder of it doesn't realize
that other people would be interested.
Mike Hardaway
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Name for Bigger Piets
Nope...no way! Can't get the side to billow out that far!
How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"?
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Alternate engines
Date: Feb 01, 2008
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look
of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed
the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the
engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a
lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get
that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys
who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an
alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for
this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BFD" <mr.clean(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version
of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind.
They are used in the mercruiser inboard marine industry. That should
be close to the same type of abuse as flying. Maybe at prop speed should
have
70-80 hp.Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "Matt Naiva" <corvaircoupe(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Possible engine alternative
Owen,
A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee
Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a picture
of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a prop
supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing.
Bob's engine of note continues to remain available and will be because they
are the core of a fleet of forklift truck engines and other OEM applications
which make it hard to obsolete.
Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still
available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are
interested in more details about the engine or how to get one. If you need
support I would suggest you build a corvair.
Other Options to consider...
Careful inspection of a 60degree V6 Chevy points to a long block with
aluminium heads at the same weight as th eI4 3.0l industrial mill. One of
the 20 million Ford Vulcans produced is worth a look a long block weigh in
at about 260 before water pump coolant and radiator and can be had as a
rebuildable core for $1-200. 3.0l All CAST IRON. Rugged.
The Aircooled Corvair has many advantages not to mention a track record and
support group. As Bob always likes to point out You Are the Mechanic in
Charge. Serious business.
This 3.0l industrial water pumper in the link below landed on the Curtis
Racer Build by the hand of Julius Junge. The plane needed the weight as it
originally had an OX5
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steamlaunch@softhome.net.08.21.2004/
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp
By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant recomendation was
in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he detailed the potential of
the Piet to be built very cheaply using industrial leftovers. A great piece
to search for on his Blog.
The Pietenpol Aircamper is a lovable little beast than can carry a fair
amount of weight on the nose. This probably explains why it has had more
auto engines than any other single design.
Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying 400+
hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many great hours of
aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare well to th efling
capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no shortage of great engine
options, some more pure than the rest but all are viable with enough
attention to detail. Every alternative engine landing on the nose of an
Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol.
Regards,
Matt
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) mentioned the following in his
entry for 11/16/06:
"This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines
that weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even
lower rpm. GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the
factory. It cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than
twice the thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in
production since about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in
both long and short block versions. Just be sure you get it with the
Industrial Engine cam instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine
version runs at a much higher rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although
I'm not familiar with its specs."
I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued.
I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that
engine. But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an
animal on the nose of a Piet. Anyone?
I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop?
Thanks.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
Max,
It would be very interesting to see one used in a Piet. Unfortunately that block
is going to run you about $10,000....
Gulp!
Ryan
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan"
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
Max,
I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, the
price!
Ron
In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ribs for sale
From: "Richard" <watash101(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Interested party in AZ. Do not know the name of the builder and assume T88 and
quality construction. Please contact me at your convenience. Photos?
Thanks, Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161971#161971
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternate engines
Brian,
Send some photosto see.
Ken H
Brian Kraut wrote:
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the
Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and
tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment
on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
From: Office 2004 Test Drive User <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
Max
On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat(at)aol.com" wrote:
> Max,
> I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, th
e
> price!
> Ron
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
>> Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
>>
>> http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
>>
>> Max
>
>
>
>
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030
00000
> 02548>
>
>
>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
_http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm_
(http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm)
In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
I wasn=99t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
Max
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300
0000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
BFD wrote:
> Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version
> of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind.
FWIW, marine engines tend to spin significantly faster than industrial
engines. You might want to confirm the rpm and torque curve and see
whether there is a version that delivers its power at a speed where you
can run a larger prop.
Haven't looked up that machine myself, so my reasoning could be all wet
here. That's just the way it usually works.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
Matt Naiva wrote:
> A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee
> Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a
> picture of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a
> prop supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing.
Great to know! Thanks.
> Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still
> available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are
> interested in more details about the engine or how to get one.
Will do.
> If you need support I would suggest you build a corvair.
That is a much more likely choice for me, of course, but I'd like to
keep my options open for a while longer.
> By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant
> recomendation was in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he
> detailed the potential of the Piet to be built very cheaply using
> industrial leftovers. A great piece to search for on his Blog.
That was it I referenced: November 2006. And I agree. It's a great piece.
> Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying
> 400+ hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many
> great hours of aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare
> well to th efling capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no
> shortage of great engine options, some more pure than the rest but all
> are viable with enough attention to detail. Every alternative engine
> landing on the nose of an Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit
> and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol.
Yup.
Thanks again. I definitely will inquire about the industrial engine.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
From: Office 2004 Test Drive User <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Ouch!!!!
On 2/1/08 8:40 PM, "Pietsrneat(at)aol.com" wrote:
> http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
>> I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
>>
>> Max
>
>
>
>
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030
00000
> 02548>
>
>
>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2008
There are deals everywhere in unfinished projects, as there are so many of them.
EAA says stuff like for every 100 plans sold, ten projects are started and one
completed on average. Over time that adds up to a lot of projects. (Not sure
those numbers really work out.. like if there are thousands of RV's flying,
there would be 100's of thousands of plans out there.. probably not.) [Rolling
Eyes]
There was an add in barnstormers for a BD-4 without FWF, a woody pusher with new
engine needing to be covered, a dissassembled A-65 and misc junk for 6k. That
kind of thing could keep someone busy for a long time, or in my case probably
make me a bachelor again...
Seems like there are quite a few low cost low power engines around. (Rotax's, Lyc
0-145's, even some A-65's). The corvair makes a nice low cost 100-110hp engine.
But seems like the more popular plane designs now are all needing 150-200hp
engines, and I am not aware of any great deal engines in that range. Years
ago there were 0-290G, and other GPU's around that were being converted, but think
that happens a lot less now.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162016#162016
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
If ya gotta ask...
>I wasn't sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
>
>Max
>
>
>On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
>Max,
> I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time.
>But, the price!
>Ron
>
>In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
>
>Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
>
><http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html>http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
>
>Max
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative
Date: Feb 02, 2008
Jim:
Mazda 13B rotary form the RX7 is a litle bit unconventinal but by now a
proven recipe.
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/
150 to 180 hp without even breathing hard and no valves to burn out.
short block from aftermarket remanufacturers runs about 2500$ and the
redrive 3000$.
You can do even beter if you do your own rebuild.
I am working on one for my Falconar.
Michael Silvius
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
>
> . But seems like the more popular plane designs now are all needing
150-200hp engines, and I am not aware of any great deal engines in that
range.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
Subject: Re: Alternate engines
From: Office 2004 Test Drive User <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Story of my life...sigh...
On 2/2/08 6:31 AM, "Jeff Boatright" wrote:
> If ya gotta ask...
>
>> I wasn't sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat(at)aol.com" wrote:
>>> Max,
>>> I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, the
>>> price!
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> MaxHegler(at)msn.com writes:
>>>> Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
>>>> Max
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
From: Michael Fisher <mfisher(at)gci.net>
Subject: Homebrew Injection
From: Jeff Boatright
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection
Got any more details on that injection system? Sounds intriguing.
Hi alternate engine aficionados,
The injection system is only a concept at this point. Throttle body injection
or carburetor results in wet manifold. Intake port, multi-point injection keeps
the manifold dry. --- Huge difference in Cyl. to Cyl. charge balance and icing
resistance -- greatly favors dry manifold. There is no need for sequential
port injection at power settings much above an idle. Many have adapted a carburetor
to engines designed for injection. This works better on systems that
were originally throttle body. I will be working on the 1.9L inverted Ford
constant-flow, multi-point system whenever I get the dry sump oiling system operational.
Mike Fisher
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative
Date: Feb 02, 2008
For what it's worth.
One of sthe cheapest ways to power a Pietenpol with a reliable engine is to
buy a midtime A 65. You can find them for between $2000 and $3500.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative
>
> There are deals everywhere in unfinished projects, as there are so many of
> them. EAA says stuff like for every 100 plans sold, ten projects are
> started and one completed on average. Over time that adds up to a lot of
> projects. (Not sure those numbers really work out.. like if there are
> thousands of RV's flying, there would be 100's of thousands of plans out
> there.. probably not.) [Rolling Eyes]
>
> There was an add in barnstormers for a BD-4 without FWF, a woody pusher
> with new engine needing to be covered, a dissassembled A-65 and misc junk
> for 6k. That kind of thing could keep someone busy for a long time, or in
> my case probably make me a bachelor again...
>
> Seems like there are quite a few low cost low power engines around.
> (Rotax's, Lyc 0-145's, even some A-65's). The corvair makes a nice low
> cost 100-110hp engine. But seems like the more popular plane designs now
> are all needing 150-200hp engines, and I am not aware of any great deal
> engines in that range. Years ago there were 0-290G, and other GPU's around
> that were being converted, but think that happens a lot less now.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162016#162016
>
>
> --
> 1:50 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Magazine
Date: Feb 02, 2008
Dick
Nice pictures Nice write up . Way to go .
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: Dick Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
> To:
> Date: 1/31/2008 9:30:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine
>
>
> Dan
> My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating.
> Thanks
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:26 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine
>
>
> >
> > Wow! Have you seen who is on the front cover of Sport Aviation ? Way
to
> > go Richard. That's a great picture!
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161489#161489
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative
In my limited experience, the critical number with the A65 is oil
pressure after at least 30 min of flight. Is it steady and is it
above 25 psi? I think that the A65 is the best value out there IF it
can hold pressure. A lot don't any more.
Of course, if you only fly 20 min at dusk (about my speed), who cares? :)
>
>For what it's worth.
>One of sthe cheapest ways to power a Pietenpol with a reliable
>engine is to buy a midtime A 65. You can find them for between
>$2000 and $3500.
Gene
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking of Piet projects in the Denver area..
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2008
I just bought a nrealy complete Piet project from a fellow in the Denver area.
On that Piet is a zero-time Corvair conversion (fan cooled not WW), prop, engine
mount, and a cowl pulled from BHP's own Corvair mold as we are told by the
builder.
We are planning to fit a Continental A-75 we already own to this Piet, therefore
we will be putting everything firewall forward up for grabs in the near future..
once we make up the ad and post it.
If anyone is interested, PM me and we'll talk. We are planning a trip there to
pick up the aircraft in April, between now and then it is sitting there for a
look-see if anyone is halfway serious about it. The engine will run as it sits
now, battery state of charge not withstanding. If the work behind the firewall
is indiciative of the work in front of it, these are good parts. I have not
been there in person yet, this transaction was conducted via the photo ad, extra
photos, and talking to everyone involved plus an independent mechanic who
has inspected the aircraft.
Cheers,
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162110#162110
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Another engine choice
Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine
Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar light
aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the answer
for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is just coming to
market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake City. Hexadyne is a
division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an aerospace engineering and
manufacturing firm that has been in operation since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA
certified folding crew seats for commercial airliners, as well as replacement
hub and brake components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill
Air Force base maintenance facilities.
Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave Shane Rosanova
and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing plant on North Redwood
Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got involved in experimental aviation
when they became distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line
five years ago. Cy soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality,
reliable and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range.
That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar research and
development effort that has resulted in the design of the Hexadyne P60. The P60
is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled,
two cylinder engine that displaces 800 ccs and produces 60 horsepower at 5750
RPM. The cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with
plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the head.
The cylinders are directly across from each other,
a design feature to reduce the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are
offset. Hexadyne was able to do this by using one connecting rod for one cylinder
and two smaller rods on their own crank journals for the other side cylinder.
The crankshaft, a beefy steel forging, rides in a vertically-split, two
piece aluminum crankcase that incorporates the cylinders. A Nikasil liner in
each cylinder provides the wear surface for the forged aluminum pistons to ride
in. Lubrication is provided by a two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts
and oil pumps are gear-driven off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral
45-amp alternator is mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition
are scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever
power management. The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1
spur-gear reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or pusher
propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is
5750 RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a rear,
four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features of the
engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named (appropriately
enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of the shop, where a P60
was mounted on a test stand. He started it up, and did runs up and down the
engine RPM range, with the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze.
This particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours of running
time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine is expected
to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne already has deposits on 25
engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will be carrying it in their next catalog.
The engines will each get a two hour test stand run before being shipped,
and will be supplied with an installation, maintenance and overhaul manual.
The engine will be warranted for two years
against defective parts. Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size,
light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together in one
package make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light aircraft builders.
Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next big little engine right here in
Salt Lake! The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward
package. They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that
will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category.
Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: more engine selections
Cyclone 375 Aeromotor
Why consider the Cyclone 375 over a two-stroke?
Improved reliability of a four-stroke
Higher torque and smoother power
Less engine vibration and related fatigue
Longer intervals between TBO
Reduced noise and pollution
Mechanical fuel pump w/electric backup
Easily available and low cost parts
Checklist of features:
50 Amp alternator
Lightweight starter w/ built-in solenoid
Cog-tooth belt reduction drive, made of aluminum castings
Built in Continental cones on re-drive for mounting to firewall
Thrust load is carried directly to firewall from re-drive, (no stress on block
Light weight-full block is only 78lbs
Re-drive is only 22lbs
Improved fuel economy-1.5 to 2 g/h
Authentic sound for light warbird replicas
Low frontal area
Why not modify the engine to get 100hp?
The basic engine is a Suzuki 4-stroke, 3-cylinder, of 993 cubic centimeters in
displacement. The reduction drive is made of aluminum castings and is precision
machined.
The engine is not altered from stock condition. The intake ports are slightly widened
to match the triple carb setup.
The idea behind this approach is that the engine is stock and can be expected to
have the same reliability and longevity as it enjoys in the car.
If we started changing valve timing and lift, crank and pistons, rods, etc.., you
would wind up with a 100HP monster that would run at full throttle for a short
time and then blow up. It would also run very rough at low speeds and have
a torque curve like a two-stroke. If that is the kind of performance you're looking
for, there are many good two-strokes(and over-engineered four-strokes)
on the market that can provide it.
Dyno testing was accomplished with a SeeRay computerized water-brake. The tests
were done with the engine in a basic configuration. We expect that with further
development and fine tuning some more improvements will be achieved.
---------------------------------
Here is a front view of the re-drive and mount on my P-40
The carburetors are tried and true constant velocity type, which are excellent
for fuel economy and air/fuel mixture under different conditions.
Click here to see comparison charts between the Rotax 582, 618, and the Cyclone
375, for Horsepower and Torque.
Reliability :
These engines have been running in hundreds of thousands of cars for the last 12
years with great results.
I may do an information booklet on how to make one yourself as time allows, I'd
like to wait untill mine is flying first, to iron out the bugs.
Your best bet is Raven ReDrives Inc. they have packages ready to go and lots of
airtime.
Raven ReDrives Inc website
Paul Kane is a licensed auto mechanic, a trained computer technician, was the P-40
Squadron Leader for the Replica Fighters Association for several years, and
has been building airplanes for the last ten years
E-mail: lkane(at)interlog.com
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: The Ken Perkins Tailwheel Assembly
Does anyone have experience or an opinion of the Pietenpol style steerable tailwheel
assembly that Ken Perkins sells? There seems to be several ways to incorporate
a steerable tailwheel into Bernies A arm tail skid.
-Ryan
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Another engine choice
Date: Feb 03, 2008
Ken
That Hexadyne engine would not be a good choice for the Piet. It is
soooo light you would have lots of problems getting your w/b on an
already tail heavy plane.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice
Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft
engine
Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or
similar light aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have
just the answer for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design
that is just coming to market, and the manufacturer is based here in
Salt Lake City.
Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company,
Inc., an aerospace engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in
operation since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA certified folding crew seats
for commercial airliners, as well as replacement hub and brake
components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill Air
Force base maintenance facilities.
Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne,
recently gave Shane Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft.
manufacturing plant on North Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron
originally got involved in experimental aviation when they became
distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line five years ago. Cy
soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality, reliable
and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range.
That realization was the genesis of a three-year,
million-dollar research and development effort that has resulted in the
design of the Hexadyne P60. The P60 is a horizontally opposed,
four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled, two cylinder engine
that displaces 800 cc's and produces 60 horsepower at 5750 RPM. The
cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with
plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the
head.
The cylinders are directly across from each other, a
design feature to reduce the rocking vibration that results when
cylinders are offset. Hexadyne was able to do this by using one
connecting rod for one cylinder and two smaller rods on their own crank
journals for the other side cylinder. The crankshaft, a beefy steel
forging, rides in a vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase that
incorporates the cylinders.
A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface
for the forged aluminum pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a
two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven
off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral 45-amp alternator is
mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition are
scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever
power management.
The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1
spur-gear reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle
tractor or pusher propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is 5750
RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a
rear, four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features
of the engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named
(appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of
the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand.
He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM
range, with the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a
breeze. This particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours
of running time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours.
The engine is expected to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne
already has deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will
be carrying it in their next catalog. The engines will each get a two
hour test stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with an
installation, maintenance and overhaul manual.
The engine will be warranted for two years against
defective parts. Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size,
light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together
in one package make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light
aircraft builders. Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next "big"
little engine right here in Salt Lake!
The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact
firewall-forward package. They are being marketed for ultralights and
light aircraft that will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category.
Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another engine choice
Date: Feb 04, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
AS one pilot put it to me;have you seen this engine working on any plane
yet even in demonstration?
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: February 3, 2008 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice
Ken
That Hexadyne engine would not be a good choice for the Piet. It is
soooo light you would have lots of problems getting your w/b on an
already tail heavy plane.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP <mailto:kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice
Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine
Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar light
aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the
answer for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is
just coming to market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake
City.
Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an
aerospace engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in operation
since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA certified folding crew seats for
commercial airliners, as well as replacement hub and brake components
for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill Air Force base
maintenance facilities.
Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave
Shane Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing
plant on North Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got
involved in experimental aviation when they became distributors for the
now-defunct Merlin aircraft line five years ago. Cy soon realized that
what was really needed was a high-quality, reliable and lightweight four
stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range.
That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar
research and development effort that has resulted in the design of the
Hexadyne P60. The P60 is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve
per cylinder, aircooled, two cylinder engine that displaces 800 cc's and
produces 60 horsepower at 5750 RPM. The cylinder heads have been
designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with plenty of fin area and
large air passages through the center of the head.
The cylinders are directly across from each other, a design feature to
reduce the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are offset.
Hexadyne was able to do this by using one connecting rod for one
cylinder and two smaller rods on their own crank journals for the other
side cylinder. The crankshaft, a beefy steel forging, rides in a
vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase that incorporates the
cylinders.
A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface for the
forged aluminum pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a
two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven
off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral 45-amp alternator is
mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition are
scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever
power management.
The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1 spur-gear
reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or
pusher propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is 5750 RPM, which
gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a rear, four
point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features of the
engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named
(appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of
the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand.
He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM range, with
the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze. This
particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours of running
time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine
is expected to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne already has
deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will be carrying
it in their next catalog. The engines will each get a two hour test
stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with an
installation, maintenance and overhaul manual.
The engine will be warranted for two years against defective parts.
Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size, light-weight (98
lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together in one package
make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light aircraft builders.
Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next "big" little engine right
here in Salt Lake!
The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward
package. They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that
will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category.
Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf
Hexatron Engineering, the Hexadyne P 60 aircraft engine, 2 cylinder 4
stroke aircraft
engine.<http://www.ultralightnews.com/airv2000/images/hexatron.jpg>
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternate engines
Date: Feb 04, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but Brian's Sky Scout
fuselage and motor was originally built by Larry Harrison (the builder
of the Poplar Piet that Leon referred to). I recognized the nice looking
fuselage from a couple of pictures that were published in the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association newsletter about a year ago. If you're good at
reading slightly blurry photos you can see Larry's name right below the
cockpit. According to the newsletter, it was Larry himself that removed
the wings and tail - to mount on a new Air Camper fuselage he built -
turning his Sky Scout from a one-seater into a two-seater.
Sky Scout wings and tail on an Air Camper fuselage - would that make a
Sky Camper or an Air Scout?
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look
of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed
the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the
engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a
> lot of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up,
> dried it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it.
> That's cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which
> hardly got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2008
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Rick,
Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume
is appropriate for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy
for the gussets, and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the
sheet(s?) for shipping?
A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x
8 foot strips which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were
cleanly cut and very nicely packaged. They also included another strip
of thicker plywood for support. I am very pleased with the quality of
the wood and the shipping.
Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They
originally had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left.
For those interested, here is their web site link
http://www.boulterplywood.com/.
They also carry birch aircraft plywood.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: RE: my Sky Scout/ Alternate engines
Date: Feb 04, 2008
Thanks for the history lesson. I knew that the wings and tail were removed
for another Piet and I knew the builder's name and that he had built severel
other Piets, but that was about it. I would love to get a copy of the
newsletter if anyone could scan one and send it to me. I would also like to
get any other information like the performance or number of hours on the
plane if anyone knows, or just contact information for Larry Harrison.
I suppose it was also Larry that built the nice set of GN-1 ribs that I got
with the project. It will be a unique plane when it is done since I don't
know of any other GN-1 Sky Scouts ever built before.
It is also for sale since I am in the middle of a divorce and need to cut
back on planes for a while. Pretty much just need to assemble the wing and
cover the wings and tail to get it back in the air. Parts wise it just
needs struts and maybe $100 of other minor odds and ends.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but Brian's Sky Scout
fuselage and motor was originally built by Larry Harrison (the builder
of the Poplar Piet that Leon referred to). I recognized the nice looking
fuselage from a couple of pictures that were published in the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association newsletter about a year ago. If you're good at
reading slightly blurry photos you can see Larry's name right below the
cockpit. According to the newsletter, it was Larry himself that removed
the wings and tail - to mount on a new Air Camper fuselage he built -
turning his Sky Scout from a one-seater into a two-seater.
Sky Scout wings and tail on an Air Camper fuselage - would that make a
Sky Camper or an Air Scout?
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look
of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed
the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the
engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a
> lot of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up,
> dried it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it.
> That's cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which
> hardly got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Another engine choice
Harvey & Dick,
You both are right..... I read this engine selection with interest as it uses
the "Pietenpol" as a choice for engine/plane compatibility. After reading the
article it is truly an engine for am ultralight class of airplane.
I am still on track for the corvair as I have purchased some used cores for re-building.
Ken
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } AS one pilot put it to
me;have you seen this engine working on any plane yet even in demonstration?
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil
Sent: February 3, 2008 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice
Ken
That Hexadyne engine would not be a good choice for the Piet. It is soooo
light you would have lots of problems getting your w/b on an already tail heavy
plane.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice
Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine
Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar
light aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the answer
for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is just coming
to market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake City.
Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an aerospace
engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in operation since 1983. Hexatron
builds FAA certified folding crew seats for commercial airliners, as well
as replacement hub and brake components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are
supplied to Hill Air Force base maintenance facilities.
Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave Shane
Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing plant on North
Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got involved in experimental
aviation when they became distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line
five years ago. Cy soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality,
reliable and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range.
That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar research and
development effort that has resulted in the design of the Hexadyne P60. The
P60 is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled,
two cylinder engine that displaces 800 ccs and produces 60 horsepower at 5750
RPM. The cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling,
with plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the head.
The cylinders are directly across from each other, a design feature to reduce
the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are offset. Hexadyne was
able to do this by using one connecting rod for one cylinder and two smaller rods
on their own crank journals for the other side cylinder. The crankshaft, a
beefy steel forging, rides in a vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase
that incorporates the cylinders.
A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface for the forged aluminum
pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a two-stage dry sump oil
system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven off the rear of the crankshaft,
where the integral 45-amp alternator is mounted. The dual throttle body fuel
injection and ignition are scheduled by an engine management computer, which
provides single lever power management.
The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1 spur-gear reduction gearbox,
with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or pusher propeller thrust
loads. The engine redline is 5750 RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine
mounting is handled by a rear, four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing
out the design features of the engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine
techs, named (appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the
back of the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand.
He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM range, with the three-blade
Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze. This particular engine
had already amassed more than 800 hours of running time, and Cy said they expect
an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine is expected to be available by this
summer, and Hexadyne already has deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and
Specialty will be carrying it in their next catalog. The engines will each
get a two hour test stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with
an installation, maintenance and overhaul manual.
The engine will be warranted for two years against defective parts. Initial
target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size, light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke
reliability and high quality together in one package make the Hexadyne P60
an attractive option for light aircraft builders. Hexadyne Aviation might just
have the next big little engine right here in Salt Lake!
The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward package.
They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that will fit
under the new sport pilot FAR category.
Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover
!
Date: Feb 04, 2008
I waited to respond till my issue came today and I got a chance to see
the article.
Thanks Mike, I grabbed an extra copy of the 1999 Sport Aviation that
featured your plane and your pics have been on the board in my hangar
ever since. I still watch your video occasionally on winter nights.
Skip Gadd had a huge role in this building projects, keeping me from
making some big mistakes.
P.F Beck was also a big help with the volunteers and building at SNF.
I took the idea for the center section radio cut out from Jack Phillips.
Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson built a great elevator linkage system and
provided me with the help to copy. Greg also helped with the fuel
tanks.
There are too many people on and off of this list to recall right now,
but thanks to all.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport
Aviation Cover !
What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and potential
builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation, Dick.
That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your
radial powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north.
You've done us all very proud !
Mike C.
PS-- you even shaved for that photo !
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Date: Feb 04, 2008
Al,
I only bought the 1/16" ply from Boulter to use on my wing leading edge. I purchased
a 4'x8' sheet cut into 4 - 1'x 8' pieces. If the Okume from boulter would
have been available a few years ago, I would have used it for my gussets and
to sheet my inboard ribs. If you are just starting building and are building
a 3 piece wing, I think I would order 2- 4x8 foot sheets. Have them slit one into
4 - 1'x 8' pieces for the leading edge and have the other 4x8 foot sheet cut
into 2-4x4 foot pieces or 4 2x4 foot pieces if the shipping is too much.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: 2/4/2008 10:34:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Rick,
Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume is appropriate
for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy for the gussets,
and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the sheet(s?) for shipping?
A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood
Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8 foot strips
which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly cut and very
nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker plywood for support.
I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the shipping.
Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/.
They also carry birch aircraft plywood.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood
Al,
Boulter is in Somerville, MA. You could probably make a trip there from
Manchester in less than an hour. It might be worth the drive. I live in CT
and got a chance to look at the other plywood they sell too. They have a
pretty large selection for such a small location. Making the drive gives
you a chance to pick through their inventory and be more selective (I
rejected 2 of the sheets he pulled out). I picked up 5 sheets of the
1.5mmmarine ply on Saturday. I bought a piece of 3/4 MDF and had them
pack the
plywood with the MDF and wrap it with cardboard. I'm kicking myself now for
not getting some 1/8 while I was there. I'm going to make a list of all the
other plywood I need and make another trip.
I bought Aircraft Spruce's Finnish Birch and used a total of 4' x 4'. (I
planned for as little waste as possible and had about a 3/4" strip left
over.) One of those sheets should be more than enough to do your ribs. It
cost me quite a bit more for a half sheet from AS&S than a full sheet from
Boulter.
Yes, the Pats really surprised me too. Lots of long faces at work today.
On 2/4/08, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume
> is appropriate for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy for
> the gussets, and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the sheet(s?)
> for shipping?
>
> A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night,
>
> Al Lyscars
> Manchester, NH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Schreiber
> *To:* pietenpol-list
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Plywood
>
>
> Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8
> foot strips which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly
> cut and very nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker
> plywood for support. I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the
> shipping.
>
> Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally
> had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those
> interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/.
>
> They also carry birch aircraft plywood.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso, IN
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2008
From: "Matt Naiva" <corvaircoupe(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Larry Harrison
*Bill,*
**
*2 years ago I called Larry he is quite a good fellow to speak with.
Unfortunately the net is foreign to him. He actually built the Scout with
Aircamper wings because he was planning ahead. I think he has built 3-4
Pietenpol type of aircraft in all and I count him as one of my heroes.*
**
*Matt*
**
**
*Subject: * *Alternate engines* *From: * *"Bill Church" <
eng(at)canadianrogers.com>*
Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but Brian's Sky Scout
fuselage and motor was originally built by Larry Harrison (the builder
of the Poplar Piet that Leon referred to). I recognized the nice
looking
fuselage from a couple of pictures that were published in the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association newsletter about a year ago. If you're good at
reading slightly blurry photos you can see Larry's name right below
the
cockpit. According to the newsletter, it was Larry himself that
removed
the wings and tail - to mount on a new Air Camper fuselage he built -
turning his Sky Scout from a one-seater into a two-seater.
Sky Scout wings and tail on an Air Camper fuselage - would that make a
Sky Camper or an Air Scout?
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Amsafetyc wrote:
> FYI, neither is mine, but its still a Piet, wide body and improved to meet my
needs. Guess what, here's a real surprise I even used epoxy rather than the
purist casein glue, that Bernie and all the other purist used in their builds.
All the purists out there building are using casein glue, aren't they?
>
> Actually, if its not the exact same materials, constructed using the same techniques
and tools, hand saws etc exactly the way Bernie did it than by the
purist definition none can be called a Piet.
>
> However, following the innovative spirit of Bernie its creator and the idea
of it being experimental in nature, design and construction, well you decide.
>
> John
And does your name have to be Bernie too..? This purist thing is sometimes a bit
much. You can bet your whatevers that if a decent quality epoxy system was off
the shelf when BHP was building he might have taken a hard look at more modern
alternatives. After all, he seemed to have developed an interest in Corvair
engines in the '60's. To me, a Pietenpol is a personal thing - IMHO if you want
to do this and that to make it your own, then that is bang on in the spirit
of the aircraft. Vive le difference!
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162499#162499
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover
!
Date: Feb 05, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Just got mine last night also Dick, a real beauty! How do you like
routing the cables outside of your fuselage?
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
I waited to respond till my issue came today and I got a chance to see
the article.
Thanks Mike, I grabbed an extra copy of the 1999 Sport Aviation that
featured your plane and your pics have been on the board in my hangar
ever since. I still watch your video occasionally on winter nights.
Skip Gadd had a huge role in this building projects, keeping me from
making some big mistakes.
P.F Beck was also a big help with the volunteers and building at SNF.
I took the idea for the center section radio cut out from Jack Phillips.
Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson built a great elevator linkage system and
provided me with the help to copy. Greg also helped with the fuel
tanks.
There are too many people on and off of this list to recall right now,
but thanks to all.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport
Aviation Cover !
What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and
potential builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation,
Dick.
That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your
radial powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north.
You've done us all very proud !
Mike C.
PS-- you even shaved for that photo !
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Any chance of some details on that external cabeling? That might well be
worth doing from a visual and functional approach.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: edwinljohnson(at)bellsouth.net
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Subject: Re: .Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/04/08
____________________________________________________________
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to
return."-da Vinci http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/d/edwinljohnson
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
> This message has been processed by Symantec's AntiVirus Technology.
>
> Unknown00000000.data was not scanned for viruses because too many nested levels
of files were found.
>
>
> For more information on antivirus tips and technology, visit
> http://ses.symantec.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Here is another pic that may help.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Any chance of some details on that external cabeling? That might well
be worth doing from a visual and functional approach.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Not to appear to be a smart a--,
I would use castle nuts & cotter pins on those pivot bolts in lieu of self
locking nuts.
Nathan
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Ada Air Expo 2008, Ada, OK
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Mark your calenders for the 2008 Ada Air Expo to be held June 13-14 at
the Ada Municipal Airport, Ada, OK (KADH). Hope to see from Piets here
for this year's event.
Terry Hall
Announcer
Airport Mananger
www.adaairexpo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Those are heim joints, no castle nut is needed. The center of the joint
is
not supposed to pivot.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Not to appear to be a smart a--,
I would use castle nuts & cotter pins on those pivot bolts in lieu of
self
locking nuts.
Nathan
_____
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00
30000
0002548> Music.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Sorry, my stupidity is showing again but it pays to be doubly sure.
Nathan
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 05, 2008
Those pics were taken in the construction process. Although not really
required as pointed out in another response, before flying, they were
changed to castle nuts with cotter pins. Also a proper fitting clevis
pin was installed, it was just easier to have a longer pin in hand while
installing and adjusting.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Not to appear to be a smart a--,
I would use castle nuts & cotter pins on those pivot bolts in lieu of
self locking nuts.
Nathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
Music.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 05, 2008
What I was thinking of was a stock piet system right up to the tube
behind the pilots seat. At that point the tube could extend beyond the
fabric and have external horns like Dick's. Only thing that would really
have to be figured out is the size of the horns for the right
throws/rates. Dick, any pics of those external horns you can bless us
with, and your reasoning behind going pushrod rather than cable up to
the tube? Absolutly wonderful work!
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Those pics were taken in the construction process. Although not
really required as pointed out in another response, before flying, they
were changed to castle nuts with cotter pins. Also a proper fitting
clevis pin was installed, it was just easier to have a longer pin in
hand while installing and adjusting.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Not to appear to be a smart a--,
I would use castle nuts & cotter pins on those pivot bolts in lieu
of self locking nuts.
Nathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
Music.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Horizontal stab question.
Ok I have a question for all of you about my horizontal stab. Ive already glued
it up, but now Im concerned I may have done it wrong. When I glued it up
I spaced each piece up off the jig (main beam, leading edge, and center beam)
so that their center lines all lined up. Should I have done this or should I have
had each piece against the jig so that the bottom of the stab is flat and
the top slants down from main beam to leading edge? I started thinking that having
everything flat against the jig would give a slight airfoil shape when done.
What have you guys done? Have I screwed up once again? If so Ill start
cutting up my horiz stab and elevators and redo them.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Michael Groah
Tulare CA
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal stab question.
Date: Feb 06, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I did mine just like you described Michael. It flies very well.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question.
Ok I have a question for all of you about my horizontal stab. I've
already glued it up, but now I'm concerned I may have done it wrong.
When I glued it up I spaced each piece up off the jig (main beam,
leading edge, and center beam) so that their center lines all lined up.
Should I have done this or should I have had each piece against the jig
so that the bottom of the stab is flat and the top slants down from main
beam to leading edge? I started thinking that having everything flat
against the jig would give a slight airfoil shape when done. What have
you guys done? Have I screwed up once again? If so I'll start cutting
up my horiz stab and elevators and redo them.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Michael Groah
Tulare CA
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Horizontal stab question.
Great, that makes me feel better. And you have a beautiful plane. I love the
color combination.
"Phillips, Jack" wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
} I did mine just like you described Michael. It flies
very well.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:38 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question.
Ok I have a question for all of you about my horizontal stab. Ive already
glued it up, but now Im concerned I may have done it wrong. When I glued it up
I spaced each piece up off the jig (main beam, leading edge, and center beam)
so that their center lines all lined up. Should I have done this or should I
have had each piece against the jig so that the bottom of the stab is flat and
the top slants down from main beam to leading edge? I started thinking that
having everything flat against the jig would give a slight airfoil shape when
done. What have you guys done? Have I screwed up once again? If so Ill start
cutting up my horiz stab and elevators and redo them.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Michael Groah
Tulare CA
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Subject: Again GREAT article
I must lend my congratulations to Dick N, as well. Excellent article, excellent
specimen!
Just has to be cool flying a round engine piet!
The extra features of a translucent wing and a woody fuse, and exposed cables are
cool touches!
Best Regards,
Steve E!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Does anyone have a spare copy of the magazine for purchase???? Or, know
where I can get it?????
Thanks!
Dave A.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick Navratil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Here is another pic that may help.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber <mailto:got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Any chance of some details on that external cabeling? That might well be
worth doing from a visual and functional approach.
-Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Call EAA
Perry Rhoads
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Does anyone have a spare copy of the magazine for purchase???? Or,
know where I can get it?????
Thanks!
Dave A.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:55 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Here is another pic that may help.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Any chance of some details on that external cabeling? That might well
be worth doing from a visual and functional approach.
-Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Again GREAT article
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Join EAA
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Does anyone have a spare copy of the magazine for purchase???? Or,
know where I can get it?????
Thanks!
Dave A.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:55 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Here is another pic that may help.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Again GREAT article
Any chance of some details on that external cabeling? That might well
be worth doing from a visual and functional approach.
-Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Subject: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
I'm not gonna lie. I'm too lazy to search the archives, but am ready to
start on my wooden gear.
What thickness should I use for the axle? I saw in the recent Sport
Aviation that Dick N. used a 1 1/4" axle 1/8" thick, then put a 1" sleeve in it
to
fit his wheels.
Also, I'm not sure what wheel size to use. The Air Camper plans show
24x4, I think. The Scout plans show a 26"x3", which look petty nice.
Ron
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question.
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Michael,
I did mine the same way too. You do want to pay attention to the plans when you
attach it to the fuselage. If I remember correctly there is a plywood spacer
to give it a slight incidence. Not positve, others might clarify this too.
Some Piets fly with the elevator hanging down slightly. Not a problem, but it
probably wouldn't be there if there was slightly more incidence. Without trim
the position of the elevator will change if the C.G. changes too. I'm off
the subject now and this opens a whole other can of worms! I do know that I used
the amount of spacing that was in the plans and my elevator position does
change slightly depending on C.G. from slightly high to slightly low in cruise
flight.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162755#162755
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Ron,
My axle 1 1/2" and 1/8" thick.
Rim size is 19".
Total tire height is about 25 1/2".
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_145.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_094.JPG
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162757#162757
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
Hey there Don,
Yes, I remember those wheels! I love 'em. Aren't you the one that told me
a while back that you used small, circular pieces of wood next to the
collar? Do you remember off hand what your tire size is?
Ron
In a message dated 2/6/2008 7:04:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Ron,
My axle 1 1/2" and 1/8" thick.
Rim size is 19".
Total tire height is about 25 1/2".
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_145.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_094.JPG
Don Emch
NX899DE
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal stab question.
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2008
[quote="dskogrover(at)yahoo.com"]Ok I have a question for all of you about my horizontal
stab. ... I started thinking that having everything flat against the
jig would give a slight airfoil shape when done.
Michael Groah
Tulare CA
> [b]
Actually while it would have a tiny bit of an airfoil shape, it is upside down
to what you would actually want - as the stab is generating down force during
stable upright flight. But the tiny amount of camber built into the stab done
this way is so small as to be barely worth thinking about. And it makes it easier
to jig too..
Happy Pieting
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162779#162779
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Ron
Sport Aviation got it wrong. I have a 1 1/2" axle .188 with an inner
sleeve and a 1" outer axle which has been heat treated.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
I'm not gonna lie. I'm too lazy to search the archives, but am
ready to start on my wooden gear.
What thickness should I use for the axle? I saw in the recent Sport
Aviation that Dick N. used a 1 1/4" axle 1/8" thick, then put a 1"
sleeve in it to fit his wheels.
Also, I'm not sure what wheel size to use. The Air Camper plans
show 24x4, I think. The Scout plans show a 26"x3", which look petty
nice.
Ron
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
Music.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2008
Ron,
Yeah, I just made a large "washer" i guess you could say that I wrapped the fabric
around then placed it over the center of the hub. I used plywood but something
like thin aluminum would work nice too I suppose. They are Cheng Shinn
3.25 / 3.60 S19 tires. I'm not exactly sure of the rim size other than 19".
What ever size it would need to be for that size tire. I remember it didn't make
much sense to me as to why it would use that size tire. But then a lot of
things don't always make sense to me!
Good luck with the wheels!
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162784#162784
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Attn: Florida Pieters - Valkaria Air Fest (X59) on 2/16/08
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Hi all,
Just a quick note... we're coming up on the Valkaria Air Fest on Saturday,
Feb. 16th at Valkaria Airport (X59 in Central Florida, between Melbourne and
Vero Beach). All pilots and aircraft are invited, and we especially
encourage owners of Pietenpols and other "interesting" aircraft to attend
regardless of what type they are. We'll have everything from PPCs to
helicopters to warbirds to VLJ's on display and doing flybys throughout the
day. We will also have two airshows (lunchtime and sunset) with John Black
and Gene McNeely doing acro, balloon glow, P-51 demos, and skydiving as well
as T-6 and 2-passenger PT-17 rides being available all day.
The part I think is probably the coolest is our "History Hangar" where we'll
have no less than TEN original Tuskegee Airmen, and over a dozen other
notable and legendary aviation heroes available to meet and talk with. The
list includes fighter legend Boots Blesse (featured on "Dogfights" and the
author of "No Guts, No Glory"), B-29 commander and former US Congressman
Bruce Alger, Aeroshell T-6 performer Gene McNeely, and many others
fascinating folks ranging from WAFs to WW2 Me-109 pilots to SR-71 drivers. I
think this will be really unique and a rare chance to meet some true heroes,
don't miss it!
We'll have a pancake breakfast going from 7-11am and other food vendors
available all day long. This is a great chance to enjoy a low-key, fun air
festival / aviation day at a small airport and help show the public the joy
of recreational aviation.
You are all invited! If you're interested, visit our website for full info
and flyers you can pass along to other intersted parties:
http://www.ValkariaAirFest.org/
Thanks, and hope to see some of you guys and gals there!
-Mike
Mike Whaley
Valkaria Air Fest 2008 Executive Committee
Join us at the Valkaria Air Fest at X59 on Feb. 16, 2008!
Web: ValkariaAirFest.org
Email: info(at)ValkariaAirFest.org
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the aluminum
cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities. Question.....what
are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make any threaded tube
gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Ken,
I can't answer your question but I have a few for you. What aluminum
did you use and where did you get it and how many gallons will your tank
hold? I was going to use 5052 for my 17 gal tank but it will cost a
bundle to ship a 4 X 8 sheet as everyone wants to ship it flat. My
local supplier suggested I use 6061, which he has in stock but I don't
have any information on how it will hold up as a fuel tank. I'm
contacting my A & P this morning to see what he says.
Thanks
Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/6/2008 9:13 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing. I
am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag Aero
sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id'. It screws into a
welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA,
CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the
aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities.
Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make
any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only
option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
An obvious question would be why not just order a sheet cut into 2' X 4'
pieces shipped UPS?
When I need 5052 I get it from a local sheet metal/welding shop. They have
lots of 5052 in stock. I recommend going through your yellow pages under
sheet metal or welding and seeing if there is a local place that has it.
Although, I don't think that there is any problem using 6061 for the tank.
Also check http://www.krnet.org/wingtank/ for an alternative method using
thinner sheet metal and rivited construction.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:03 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Ken,
I can't answer your question but I have a few for you. What aluminum did
you use and where did you get it and how many gallons will your tank hold?
I was going to use 5052 for my 17 gal tank but it will cost a bundle to ship
a 4 X 8 sheet as everyone wants to ship it flat. My local supplier
suggested I use 6061, which he has in stock but I don't have any information
on how it will hold up as a fuel tank. I'm contacting my A & P this morning
to see what he says.
Thanks
Gene
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Release Date: 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
That's the same thing I used. (I was trying to remember where I bought
it, but you're right - It was Wag Aero that had them). I've attached a
picture showing it hanging down from the centersection tank, between the
front cabane struts. It works very well. Just be careful to position
it offset from the fuel filler, or you might damage the float by jamming
the fuel hose nozzle into it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing.
I am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag
Aero sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=96. It screws
into a welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I
used the aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and
Specialities. Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight
gages? Do they make any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't
be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to
return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight gauges,
but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your typical
Pietenpol wing thickness). As I remember from a previous discussion on the
List a few years ago, they used to carry a shorter version, but discontinued
them. Is the Wag-Aero the shorter version? Anybody? Wag-Aero's online
description is a bit lacking (as is the image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you think
anyone at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people shortening their
name to just the initials like I just typed, then backspaced and typed out
the name in full because it just doesn't look right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the list when
Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of some really cool
wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and got as far as a
prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least that what my brain
remembers). Too bad, they would have been really nice, with a dial indicator
that would only protrude an inch or so below the tank (photos at
mykitplane.com in Max's photos
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Piet%200
60404%20022.jpg
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Piet%20
060404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583> &PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing. I
am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag Aero
sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id'. It screws into a
welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA,
CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the
aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities.
Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make
any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only
option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tank information
Pietenpol Members:
I am heading into town to pick-up my custom fuel tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol.
I am very fortunate to have the manufacturer of the "FreeBird" in my back
yard. Also, as apart of this company, he has a medical manufacturing company
that deals in all kinds and types of material from aluminum and tubing to include
aircraft steel.
I will post photos of my tank and the weight of it when I return home. Understand,
my Pietenpol is 29" across at the tank compartment and the taper starts
behind the front passenger seat.
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
What a great design, here is another picture,
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20CC%
2
0tank%20007.jpg&PhotoID=2579
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight
gauges, but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your
typical Pietenpol wing thickness). As I remember from a previous
discussion on the List a few years ago, they used to carry a shorter
version, but discontinued them. Is the Wag-Aero the shorter version?
Anybody? Wag-Aero's online description is a bit lacking (as is the
image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you think
anyone at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people shortening
their name to just the initials like I just typed, then backspaced and
typed out the name in full because it just doesn't look right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the list
when Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of some
really cool wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and got
as far as a prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least that
what my brain remembers). Too bad, they would have been really nice,
with a dial indicator that would only protrude an inch or so below the
tank (photos at mykitplane.com in Max's photos
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Pie
t
%20060404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing.
I am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag
Aero sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=96. It screws
into a welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I
used the aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and
Specialities. Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight
gages? Do they make any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't
be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Bill,
For my header tank application, I would love to see an snowmobile style gas gage
( the one where the cork slide up between two rods and the gage shown the
fuel amount on the cap)
with the same design but the rod pushes up into a tube for visual effects!
Maybe time to create one I guess........
Ken
Bill Church wrote:
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight gauges,
but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your typical Pietenpol
wing thickness). As I remember from a previous discussion on the List
a few years ago, they used to carry a shorter version, but discontinued them.
Is the Wag-Aero the shorter version? Anybody? Wag-Aero's online description is
a bit lacking (as is the image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you think anyone
at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people shortening their name to
just the initials like I just typed, then backspaced and typed out the name in
full because it just doesn't look right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the list when Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of some really cool wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and got as far as a prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least that what my brain remembers). Too bad, they would have been really nice, with a dial indicator that would only protrude an inch or so below the tank (photos at mykitplane.com in Max's photos http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Piet%20060404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing. I am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag Aero sells them. Here is the link http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id'. It screws into a welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the aluminum
cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities. Question.....what
are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make any threaded tube
gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
The one that Wag sells is for about a 6" tank. You can cut off the end of
the wire that hangs in the glass tube and paint marks on the tube to make it
accurate for shorter tanks. It screws in a 1/4" NPT pipe thread.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight
gauges, but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your
typical Pietenpol wing thickness). As I remember from a previous discussion
on the List a few years ago, they used to carry a shorter version, but
discontinued them. Is the Wag-Aero the shorter version? Anybody? Wag-Aero's
online description is a bit lacking (as is the image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you think
anyone at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people shortening their
name to just the initials like I just typed, then backspaced and typed out
the name in full because it just doesn't look right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the list
when Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of some really
cool wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and got as far as a
prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least that what my brain
remembers). Too bad, they would have been really nice, with a dial indicator
that would only protrude an inch or so below the tank (photos at
mykitplane.com in Max's photos
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Piet%200
60404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing. I
am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag Aero
sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id'. It screws into a
welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA,
CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the
aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities.
Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make
any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only
option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
Thanks for your help, Don. By the way, has anyone ever ordered from Robert
at Airdrome Aeroplanes? Seems they have fairly decent prices for ready made
stuff.
Ron
In a message dated 2/6/2008 11:03:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Ron,
Yeah, I just made a large "washer" i guess you could say that I wrapped the
fabric around then placed it over the center of the hub. I used plywood but
something like thin aluminum would work nice too I suppose. They are Cheng
Shinn 3.25 / 3.60 S19 tires. I'm not exactly sure of the rim size other than
19". What ever size it would need to be for that size tire. I remember it
didn't make much sense to me as to why it would use that size tire. But then
a lot of things don't always make sense to me!
Good luck with the wheels!
Don
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 07, 2008
There's also the fuel sight gauge that's mounted on top of the wing like
used in the DeHavilland Moths. Not sure if it is a cork on a rod that slides
up and down, or if it's on a lever with a crank.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Ron those wheels at Airdrome Aeroplanes look really nice. They really aren't very
hard to make. They can be made without the use of a lathe if you are creative.
However, the price that he has listed is pretty good. He definately isn't
getting rich on them!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162898#162898
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)capital.net>
Subject: Congratulations
Date: Feb 07, 2008
Hey Dick
Great article! Great airplane
Don Lane
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: PM'ing, I am having problems..
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2008
I am sure I am being a complete bonehead here and missing something obvious, but
humor me..
I tried to PM a list member, so I hit "PM" on one of their posts, simple enough,
typed a subject and message, and hit "Submit". To me that implied it was sent,
esp. since the next screen that popped up said "Your message has been sent".
After 2-3 days with no response, I thought I would check if their was a problem
or if I simply did not have a reply yet. I clicked on the "Sent messages"
option, and was told the folder was empty. Hmm. I clicked on the Outbox option,
and there was my message. In Outlook terminology, that means it is in stasis
in the email program for some reason, so I assume it means the same here. I tried
another message, and did what made sense and it too is corralled in the Outbox
folder.
So.. what is wrong with me, why can't I send a simple PM?.. [Crying or Very sad]
Thx,
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162928#162928
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Stromberg NAS-3A1
I have a Stromberg NAS-3A1 carburetor for sale, if anyone's interested please contact
me offline at jjr48(at)slb.com.
________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
This is not correct. Leonardo da Vinci did not write the words "to break the surly
bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" Those words were written by John
Gillespie Magee in his famous poem "High Flight." Magee was an American flying
with the RAF in WW2 and was killed in action. Some people also like to?attribute
those words to Ronald Reagan for his space shuttle Challenger?speech - neither
Reagan nor his speechwriters were capable of writing anything anywhere
near that poetic!?
FW Beseler
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2008
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
- Leonardo da Vinci
High Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
John Gillespie Magee, Jr
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162981#162981
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Or even five to seven-hundred feet AGL
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
"Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up."
Roger B. Chaffee, Astronaut
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Or even five to seven-hundred feet AGL
Date: Feb 08, 2008
Some people would say that what you are about to see, is probably the
greatest exhibition of aeronautical skill in the history of world. I
myself, wouldnt go that far. It is probably only the greatest since
the invention of the aeroplane.
Axel Olsson - The Stunt King
On Feb 8, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote:
>
>
> "Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up."
>
> Roger B. Chaffee, Astronaut
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 08, 2008
Another fuel gauge option for the center-section tank is the arrangement
that Tim Mickel has on N57TL. I've attached a picture that I got from
www.westcoastpiet.com that shows what it looks like. It looks nice and
unobtrusive, but I spoke with Tim about it and he says it doesn't work well
at all. Basically he says he uses his watch to tell how much fuel he has in
the wing tank (based on the engine's fuel burn rate).
Dennis Hall's Air Camper (blue heron) that's based at Brodhead has an
arrangement that looks very similar, but I believe uses a Ford Model A fuel
gauge. I do not know what he thinks about how it works.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Header tank help..
Or you can use a fuel gauge from a Model A
---------------------------------
Tarjeta de crdito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.Solicit tu nueva Tarjeta de crdito.
De tu PC directo a tu casa.
Visit www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vi Kapler NOw ON-LINE...
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 08, 2008
Great News! Vi Kapler is now online. I am helping him set up his computer to
log on and view this site. Vi & Darlean say hello. Oh! By the way, Vi got
married. You should see the smile on his face.
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163033#163033
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Yes...You are correct! I added this line from the closing attributes of the military
(at the end of the TV stations programming for the night. I have enjoyed
the words read during the flight before the national anthem). It has always
stuck in my mind about flying and touching the face of god....proper credit is
due.
Ken
tbyh(at)aol.com wrote:
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds
of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci
This is not correct. Leonardo da Vinci did not write the words "to break the surly
bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" Those words were written by John
Gillespie Magee in his famous poem "High Flight." Magee was an American flying
with the RAF in WW2 and was killed in action. Some people also like to attribute
those words to Ronald Reagan for his space shuttle Challenger speech - neither
Reagan nor his speechwriters were capable of writing anything anywhere
near that poetic!
FW Beseler
---------------------------------
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Ditto's...enjoyed that! I loved the narrator who reads the poem during the military
flight. That video is very inspirational of flight...for me!
Ken
MikeD wrote:
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
- Leonardo da Vinci
High Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
John Gillespie Magee, Jr
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162981#162981
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2008
> Those words were written by John Gillespie Magee in his famous poem "High Flight."
Magee was an American flying with the RAF in WW2 and was killed in action.
>
> FW Beseler
>
He was serving at the time, but ironically what killed him was a midair between
his Spit and an RAF trainer. Apparently a witness saw him struggle out of his
Spit but was not high enough to get the 'chute out.
Makes me wonder at the sanity of wearing a chute in a Piet, esp. in the front cockpit.
I would hope we're at about 12,000' AGL if I ever have to bail out..
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163049#163049
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vi Kapler NOw ON-LINE...
Vi Kapler.....
It is about dam time you get up to speed......there.... now log off and throw
the dam computer away since it will only give you heartburn and many sleepless
nights.
Ken H
dwilson wrote:
Great News! Vi Kapler is now online. I am helping him set up his computer to log
on and view this site. Vi & Darlean say hello. Oh! By the way, Vi got married.
You should see the smile on his face.
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163033#163033
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: One Minute Waldo Pepper Trailer
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
This is great......for those of you at Brodhead last summer they showed
this movie Saturday night against a hangar wall. For the
res of you, you've probably see this classic. This is fun to watching
during the dreary days of winter !
Mike C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfZhXhCGwEA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 08, 2008
That looks exactly like the fuel gauge in the header tank of a Piper Clipper
I had. Would not surprise me at all if it was the same one.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:23 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Or you can use a fuel gauge from a Model A
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Tarjeta de crdito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle. Solicit tu nueva Tarjeta
de crdito. De tu PC directo a tu casa.
Visit www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Or even five to seven-hundred feet AGL
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Good one John. How about Axel Olsson saying "I didn't like it very
much"
to Waldo regarding his first taste of wingwalking ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Header tank help..
Date: Feb 08, 2008
The AS "Stearman type" is not difficult to modify. When you see it,
you'll realize that it involves shortening the cork guides, the gauge
wire and the plastic tube, the end of which will then have to be
re-tapped to re-accept the drainvalve. For convenience, the markings on
the tube can be redrawn to indicate fuel level both on the ground and in
level flight. The tube will hang down low; if you put it to the rear and
well to one side it will adequately clear the passenger's head.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight
gauges, but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your
typical Pietenpol wing thickness). As I remember from a previous
discussion on the List a few years ago, they used to carry a shorter
version, but discontinued them. Is the Wag-Aero the shorter version?
Anybody? Wag-Aero's online description is a bit lacking (as is the
image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you
think anyone at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people
shortening their name to just the initials like I just typed, then
backspaced and typed out the name in full because it just doesn't look
right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the
list when Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of
some really cool wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and
got as far as a prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least
that what my brain remembers). Too bad, they would have been really
nice, with a dial indicator that would only protrude an inch or so below
the tank (photos at mykitplane.com in Max's photos
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Pie
t%20060404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are
describing. I am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my
Pacer. Wag Aero sells them. Here is the link
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=96. It screws
into a welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used
the aluminum cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and
Specialities. Question.....what are other using for fuel tank sight
gages? Do they make any threaded tube gages anymore? Cork and wire can't
be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New fuel gage..
Members:
In large part due to the depth and size of my tank, I am going to manufacture
one for my need. I have assembled a bunch of "stuff" to make a nice fuel gage
and will post photos and parts when completed.
Ken H
Jim Malley wrote:
The AS "Stearman type" is not difficult to modify. When you see it, you'll
realize that it involves shortening the cork guides, the gauge wire and
the plastic tube, the end of which will then have to be re-tapped to re-accept
the drainvalve. For convenience, the markings on the tube can be redrawn to indicate
fuel level both on the ground and in level flight. The tube will hang
down low; if you put it to the rear and well to one side it will adequately clear
the passenger's head.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Aircraft Spruce has what they refer to as "Stearman type" fuel sight gauges,
but the description says for 8" tank depth (a bit more than your typical Pietenpol
wing thickness). As I remember from a previous discussion on the List a few
years ago, they used to carry a shorter version, but discontinued them. Is
the Wag-Aero the shorter version? Anybody? Wag-Aero's online description is a
bit lacking (as is the image).
Here's a link to the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty website. (Do you think anyone
at Aircraft Spruce ever gave any thought to people shortening their name to
just the initials like I just typed, then backspaced and typed out the name in
full because it just doesn't look right?)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/spiralaction.php
Also, a couple of years ago, there was some discussion here on the list when Max Davis was working on having a limited production run of some really cool wing tank fuel gauges made by a gauge manufacturer, and got as far as a prototype before the manufacturer backed out (at least that what my brain remembers). Too bad, they would have been really nice, with a dial indicator that would only protrude an inch or so below the tank (photos at mykitplane.com in Max's photos http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Davis%20Piet%20060404%20022.jpg&PhotoID=2583 .
Bill C.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
I welded up a tank with the Spruce filler just like you are describing. I am going to a Piper sight gauge just like the one in my Pacer. Wag Aero sells them. Here is the link http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id'. It screws into a welded on pipe thread flange on the bottom of the tank.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Header tank help..
Members & Fellow Pieters:
I have completed my header tank for my "Wide Body" Pietenpol. I used the aluminum
cap and fiting supplied by Aircraft Spruce and Specialities. Question.....what
are other using for fuel tank sight gages? Do they make any threaded tube
gages anymore? Cork and wire can't be the only option?.......
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wood for NE Builders
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2008
Good source of wood for builders and would-be builders in the Boston area...
After hearing about Boulter Plywood from guys on the list I went down last week
and picked up some of that 1.5mm Okume for the leading edge sheeting. I wasn't
impressed by the person who helped me as he tried to push some damaged sheets
into my 5 sheet order and made faces when I requested swapping them out for
good ones.
I just went there today and was helped by Chris Boulter (owner). I did say this
time that it was for an airplane and asked if they had more than plywood. They
have a huge supply of Sitka spruce in their basement and more of the larger
rough-cut variety in the next-door building. Rough-cut 2" x 6" is 7.95 a board
foot if you select it yourself. Lots of 20' length pieces. If you want him
to pick it for you it's $10.00 board foot because of the time he has to spend
digging and checking. I saw some fantastic pieces in there. Chris was rattling
off all the specs specs for aircraft grading. (I am familiar with these
specs but let him go to see how much he knew) He's a nice guy and knows our
stuff.
Haven't yet done the math to find out what kind of deal that is compared to the
brand names we all know, but for sure, if you truck it home yourself, you won't
be paying $150.00 plus for shipping.
They also carry GL2 aircraft grade plywood. I bought 2 pieces of 1/8" x 5' x 5'
5 ply for about $100.00 which is just a little cheaper than Aircraft Spruce
($54 per 4' x 4' sheet).
No shipping, no waiting, no wondering if your going to receive substandard wood.
Hope somebody else finds this helpful too.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163169#163169
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2008
Subject: Re: Axle thickness, wheel and tire size
Don,
I didn't think the prices were too bed either, considering ONE M/C wheel
on the site below ($768.00) is more than Airdrome is asking for TWO complete
A/C wheels with tires (about $600.00).
Ron
_American Wire Motorcycle Wheels_ (ht
tp://www.americanwire.com/40_spoke_motorcycle_wheels.php)
In a message dated 2/7/2008 7:04:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Ron those wheels at Airdrome Aeroplanes look really nice. They really
aren't very hard to make. They can be made without the use of a lathe if you
are
creative. However, the price that he has listed is pretty good. He
definately isn't getting rich on them!
Don Emch
NX899DE
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2008
Subject: Da Vinci/Magee/Pietenpol Motor Mounts
I hope nobody thought I was too cranky regarding the Da Vinci/Magee quotes --
Only a crotchety old geezer like me would actually take time to bellyache
about it...Actually a very good combination of the two, Ken!
Question: I'm working on my motor mounts. Regarding the lower brackets for
the steel motor mounts (for a Model A) -- it isn't clear on my plans whether
three bolt holes are used or just two. Three holes are shown but only two have
hex-head bolts drawn on the plans...the upper hole and the rearmost hole in the
longeron. If three then I will obviously have to notch out a little more of
the lower cross brace wood behind the firewall...
Fred B.
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Radial Piet
Date: Feb 09, 2008
Congratulations Dick. I am going to try to get a copy of that front
page photo from EAA to hang over my workbench. What a gorgeous piece of
motivation!
Tom Stinemetze
in occasionally sunny Kansas
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Radial Piet
Date: Feb 09, 2008
MessageHeck with the picture. Those Rotecs are such nice looking engines I
want to hang one on my living room wall, or maybe the most beautifull and
most expensive ceiling fan you have ever seen.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Stinemetze
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:59 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radial Piet
Congratulations Dick. I am going to try to get a copy of that front page
photo from EAA to hang over my workbench. What a gorgeous piece of
motivation!
Tom Stinemetze
in occasionally sunny Kansas
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Date: Feb 10, 2008
Magee was actually flying for the RCAF.
Steve G
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:32:59 -0500
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da VinciTh
is is not correct. Leonardo da Vinci did not write the words "to break the
surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" Those words were written b
y John Gillespie Magee in his famous poem "High Flight." Magee was an Ameri
can flying with the RAF in WW2 and was killed in action. Some people also l
ike to attribute those words to Ronald Reagan for his space shuttle Challen
ger speech - neither Reagan nor his speechwriters were capable of writing a
nything anywhere near that poetic!
FW Beseler
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Date: Feb 10, 2008
With all this talk of Stearman-type fuel gauges, I'm surprised that Steve Eldredge
didn't pipe up with his comments. He built a clever one for his Piet and
used to have photos and a narrative of it on his website at BYU (linked from Grant
McLaren's BPA website), but that link is now dead. If there is any interest,
I can sketch out what Steve did and copy the narrative text onto a webpage
to go with the sketches. I printed out the pictures and text back when they
were on the BPA website but the picture quality is WAY too low for me to re-scan
and I think I can sketch it up fairly accurately.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Compression struts
Date: Feb 10, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hi all,
Gluing up my left wing, should the mid-wing compression struts be
parallel, or be towards the top and bottom of the spars as shown on the
plan? Also, same question for the root end struts.
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Compression struts
Date: Feb 10, 2008
Jack,
The inter-spar compression struts should be towards the top and bottom
of the spars. The lower one will need to allow for the airfoil
under-camber by either installing it away from the bottom edge of the
spar or by carving the under-camber curve into the strut.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Compression struts
Hi all,
Gluing up my left wing, should the mid-wing compression struts be
parallel, or be towards the top and bottom of the spars as shown on the
plan? Also, same question for the root end struts.
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Compression struts
Date: Feb 10, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Greg,
Thanks for the note and heads-up on the under-camber. My main concern
is with the upper strut. If I place them 1/8 inch below the spar tops,
it won't be parallel with the bottom strut, because the front spar is
higher than the rear spar. Loving seeing the wing in assembled, getting
close to making airplane noises.
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
Jack,
The inter-spar compression struts should be towards the top and bottom
of the spars. The lower one will need to allow for the airfoil
under-camber by either installing it away from the bottom edge of the
spar or by carving the under-camber curve into the strut.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor <mailto:jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Compression struts
Hi all,
Gluing up my left wing, should the mid-wing compression struts
be parallel, or be towards the top and bottom of the spars as shown on
the plan? Also, same question for the root end struts.
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Oscar,
You havemy attenton as I am either going to custom fabricate one or but one and
modify it to my liking....
I am interested!
Ken H
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
With all this talk of Stearman-type fuel gauges, I'm surprised that Steve Eldredge
didn't pipe up with his comments. He built a clever one for his Piet and used
to have photos and a narrative of it on his website at BYU (linked from Grant
McLaren's BPA website), but that link is now dead. If there is any interest,
I can sketch out what Steve did and copy the narrative text onto a webpage
to go with the sketches. I printed out the pictures and text back when they were
on the BPA website but the picture quality is WAY too low for me to re-scan
and I think I can sketch it up fairly accurately.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: external bellcrank assy
Date: Feb 10, 2008
Although if was -8 degrees F today,I went out to the hangar and took a
couple of pics of my bell crank set up. It is made to the same
dimensions in plans.
Again, my reasons for going with this set up first was for an antique
look but it is also simpler and I dont have to worry about wear on the
cable that makes a 180 degree turn on the torque tube. I have also
noticed that there is much less friction on the stick. The only thing
I would do differently is to raise the assy by 2" to clear the horiz
stab.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Compression struts
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2008
Hi Jack,
I might be reading your question all wrong and may not understand what you are
saying, but since the spars are the same height the compression struts should
work out to be parallel to each other. If I remember right I think the bottom
strut is spaced up a little, front and rear, to keep it away from the undercamber
of the airfoil. But it would still work out to be parallel with the top
strut. But I may not be understanding the question, which would be normal for
me!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163396#163396
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 6' Hinges
Date: Feb 10, 2008
How are all of you attaching the 6' piano hinges to the spar?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BScott116(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 2008
Subject: Re: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Please post dimensions and materials!. I'm installing my gas tank now!
In a message dated 2/10/2008 5:30:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
Oscar,
You havemy attenton as I am either going to custom fabricate one or but one
and modify it to my liking....
I am interested!
Ken H
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga
With all this talk of Stearman-type fuel gauges, I'm surprised that Steve
Eldredge didn't pipe up with his comments. He built a clever one for his Piet
and used to have photos and a narrative of it on his website at BYU (linked
from Grant McLaren's BPA website), but that link is now dead. If there is any
interest, I can sketch out what Steve did and copy the narrative text onto a
webpage to go with the sketches. I printed out the pictures and text back when
they were on the BPA
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 2008
Subject: Re: Da Vinci/Magee/Pietenpol Motor Mounts
Fred,
I believe the third one is meant to be a wood screw. That is what I did on
mine.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 2008
Subject: Re: Compression struts
Jack,
I don't understand why your spars are not the same height. I made mine
exactly the same height.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
Date: Feb 11, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I never use a chute.I can't see the logic in bailing out of a perfectly
good airplane such as the Piet.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD
Sent: February 8, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leonardo da Vinci Quote
> Those words were written by John Gillespie Magee in his famous poem
"High Flight." Magee was an American flying with the RAF in WW2 and was
killed in action.
>
> FW Beseler
>
He was serving at the time, but ironically what killed him was a midair
between his Spit and an RAF trainer. Apparently a witness saw him
struggle out of his Spit but was not high enough to get the 'chute out.
Makes me wonder at the sanity of wearing a chute in a Piet, esp. in the
front cockpit. I would hope we're at about 12,000' AGL if I ever have to
bail out..
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163049#163049
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Compression struts
Date: Feb 11, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Thanks Dan, you answered my question. I beveled the top of each spar to
avoid the "wedgies". The attached drawing shows how I constructed mine.
It sound like I should place my struts based on the smaller spar
dimension of 41/2 inches, which should keep them parallel. You know as
one gets further along in construction, you hope not to make an error
that would require a massive redo, which is why this list is so helpful!
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
Jack,
I don't understand why your spars are not the same height. I made mine
exactly the same height.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Date: Feb 11, 2008
Well, I made some sketches based on Steve's description, scanned them and copied
Steve's narrative to go along with the sketches. Here's the webpage:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/sightgage.html
I sure hope Steve will review this for accuracy because some of it was my "creative
inventing", such as the pivot hinge. Other details weren't 100% clear so
I sort of drew it up as I thought it was intended, but I have NOT fabricated
one of these to see if I got the drawing correct. Pretty cool! The best part
is that it is flight-tested and now also proven crash-worthy ;o)
The lead-in photo on the webpage doesn't show a whole lot of detail about the sight
gauge but it speaks volumes about the fun you can have in a Pietenpol!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Maybe this can help someone. This is the fuel gauge built by Larry Williams, veeery
simple. According Larry, designed by Steve Eldredge.
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
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Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho ms fcil, prob el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros.
Visit http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Stearman-type fuel gauge
Date: Feb 11, 2008
Thanks to Santiago Morete, I've gotten the detail of Larry Williams' adaptation/simplification of Steve Eldredge's gauge and added it to the webpage I made: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/sightgage.html
Great stuff!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: FlyChallenger: Bad weather joke
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Feb 11, 2008
Subject: Stearman-type fuel gauge
I'm still here, but was out of touch over the weekend, besides, who would w
ant ideas for a fuel gauge solution that cost only $5 and can be made from
parts you have already strewn about your garage?
Thought so.
So here is the bill of materials (from 10 years ago, so work with me...)
36" of welding rod
8" of 1/2"rigid copper plumbing pipe
1 1/2" copper coupler (the kind you slide two pieces of pipe into before so
ldering)
1-1/2" copper washer
1' clear pvc tubing
A cork
White spray paint
Safety wire
3/8" barbed fitting
A short AN5 or 6 bolt or a drain valve (optional for the deluxe model)
The copper washer is soldered to the union fitting and then cut off to make
a hat like fitting which can be mated to the bottom of the tank. Its purp
ose is to be a receptacle for the length of copper pipe, which acts as a pr
otection to the site gauge itself. I carved away a window in the pilot fac
ing side of the copper pipe. Paint the inside of the copper pipe white for
good contrast with the indicator.
My install was similar to the illustration, with a few changes. I added a
2" diameter x 1/4" reinforcement to the bottom of the tank for the barbed f
itting to screw into. I used 4 machine screws fastened through the copper
fitting and tank bottom with proseal to prevent leaks. I'm sure Larry's sol
utions works too, but I also put a cork on a length of welding rod, hinged
on the rear wall of the tank, horizontal to the bottom of the tank. From t
hat length of rod I suspended the indicator rod, aligned with the indicator
hole. This way I can more accurately estimate the fuel level (one hopes)
at different attitudes.
Some notes after using it for ten years:
Use stainless rod if you can. Moisture will eventually rust the welding ro
d. The PVC tube will harden and become opaque over time. I replaced mine
at about 8 years, and employed the white paint for added visibility. I put
a drain in the bottom of the gauge. Water will collect there, along with
some sludge. Use the safety wire to assure good leak-proof seal on both en
ds of the pvc tubing. (barb, and drain ends). Make sure the indicator does
n't bottom out on the drain. The PVC will shrink over time and make you wo
nder how much fuel you really have. Give it an extra 1/2". Add fuel in kn
own quantities and mark your gauge. Always, always fly by time, not by gau
ge readings. Polish the copper at annual. It looks cool.