Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ke
February 17, 2011 - March 04, 2011
>
>jm
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: Michael Perez
>
>Sent: Feb 15, 2011 12:19 PM
>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/8" 4130 Rod
>
>
>Thank you sir! Let me know what you find and I'll send you a mailing address.
>
>Michael Perez
>
>Karetaker Aero
>
>www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prince A-75 Propeller For Sale |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve; please email me off list if you still have the prop. Thanks.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331347#331347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3/8" 4130 Rod |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
dfwplt wrote:
> Pryor, OK...where it was -20F last Wednesday....today's forecast: 70F...
>
Are you out there making use of this nice weather?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331357#331357
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3/8" 4130 Rod |
I wish!!! Actually working this week....at least I get to work from home this
week (and next)!
Hope you (and everyone else....) are getting over to the hangar/your project!
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Feb 17, 2011 1:04 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3/8" 4130 Rod
>
>
>dfwplt wrote:
>> Pryor, OK...where it was -20F last Wednesday....today's forecast: 70F...
>>
>
>
>Are you out there making use of this nice weather?
>
>--------
>Mark Chouinard
>Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331357#331357
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
I've been working on my wing.. leading and trailing edges..
I kept thinking the idea of 8-32 screws holding on the leading edge sounded kinda
silly..
after roughly shaping it and clamping it in place a few times, it hit me..
i would need at least 28 clamps to hold that thing in place... or DUH..
do it like bernard did..
so i clamped it.. drilled it glued it then screwed it on.. the screws pull it down
tight and keep it in from sliding out of place all at the same time..
looks like a wing
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331370#331370
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Moving Axle Centerline |
Having read the Wynne articles in the BPA newsletter concerning landing
gear and CG location where he cautions builders not to have the landing
gear aft of the wing leading edge, I have the following questions: My
fuselage is already built with the white ash cross struts on the floor
bottom. I am planning on using the split axle gear with hydraulic
brakes. How can I move the axle forward and still use the same fuselage
mounting gear location for the landing gear? Can I shorten the forward
landing gear tube and lengthen the rear tube? Am I missing something?
Tim White
(Long fuselage, C-85-12)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Moving Axle Centerline |
Tim:
The fuselage attach points need to remain in the same locations as that is
where the bracing structure is designed to accept the loads. I am just
about to do the same thing that you are suggesting, i.e. shorten the front
tube and lengthen the back one. This will actually mean that the front
tube is transmitting more of the load to the front fuselage attachment
point than before due to the change in moment arm but that has apparently
not been a problem for others who have done this.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> 2/18/2011 9:00 AM >>>
Having read the Wynne articles in the BPA newsletter concerning landing
gear and CG location where he cautions builders not to have the landing
gear aft of the wing leading edge, I have the following questions: My
fuselage is already built with the white ash cross struts on the floor
bottom. I am planning on using the split axle gear with hydraulic brakes.
How can I move the axle forward and still use the same fuselage mounting
gear location for the landing gear? Can I shorten the forward landing
gear tube and lengthen the rear tube? Am I missing something?
Tim White
(Long fuselage, C-85-12)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Moving Axle Centerline |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
That's what I did with my split gear, moved the axle 3" forward from the
plans location. Haven't flown yet so I can't say if its good or bad.
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:21 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Tim:*
> **
> *The fuselage attach points need to remain in the same locations as that
> is where the bracing structure is designed to accept the loads. I am just
> about to do the same thing that you are suggesting, i.e. shorten the front
> tube and lengthen the back one. This will actually mean that the front tube
> is transmitting more of the load to the front fuselage attachment point than
> before due to the change in moment arm but that has apparently not been a
> problem for others who have done this.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
>
> >>> 2/18/2011 9:00 AM >>>
> *Having read the Wynne articles in the BPA newsletter concerning landing
> gear and CG location where he cautions builders not to have the landing gear
> aft of the wing leading edge, I have the following questions: My fuselage is
> already built with the white ash cross struts on the floor bottom. I am
> planning on using the split axle gear with hydraulic brakes. How can I move
> the axle forward and still use the same fuselage mounting gear location for
> the landing gear? Can I shorten the forward landing gear tube and lengthen
> the rear tube? Am I missing something?*
> **
> *Tim White *
> *(Long fuselage, C-85-12)*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you will
be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it is from
a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years ago. It looks
just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand |
As most of you recall, I posted a picture of what I thought was a completed
set of ribs. Jack Phillips unceremoniously pointed out that I was two ribs
short. Knowing that he would never intentionally disconcert the masses, upon
reading his post (Could it be?), I ran downstairs in a panic to the garage
to recount. I counted that stack 3 times, but the number never changed,
and, upon closer inspection, found Ribs #17 & 18 missing. The offending ribs
now sit atop the stack.
As to the two missing ribs themselves, mistakenly, and in haste, I quickly
blamed Jim Markle.that was wrong.
Upon more careful consideration, I can now prove, with irrefutable logic and
mathematics, that it was the Mess Steward who took the ribs! There must have
been a duplicate key, which I can also prove, but I am surrounded by
incompetence, as evidenced by the fact that numerous Piet builders have been
to my house, and no one has told me I was missing #'s 17 & 18. Had I been
allowed more time I could prove that there is a duplicate key to my house
(rolling steel marbles in my left hand)..well, of course, I'll be happy to
answer any further questions.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
He is a Yorkshire terrier 8 months old. We had an outdoor rat and mouse problem
before "ABE" came on the scene. PETA would not like him. He kills every one he
can find.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331478#331478
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Moving Axle Centerline |
Thanks Tom
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving Axle Centerline
Tim:
The fuselage attach points need to remain in the same locations as that
is where the bracing structure is designed to accept the loads. I am
just about to do the same thing that you are suggesting, i.e. shorten
the front tube and lengthen the back one. This will actually mean that
the front tube is transmitting more of the load to the front fuselage
attachment point than before due to the change in moment arm but that
has apparently not been a problem for others who have done this.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> 2/18/2011 9:00 AM >>>
Having read the Wynne articles in the BPA newsletter concerning landing
gear and CG location where he cautions builders not to have the landing
gear aft of the wing leading edge, I have the following questions: My
fuselage is already built with the white ash cross struts on the floor
bottom. I am planning on using the split axle gear with hydraulic
brakes. How can I move the axle forward and still use the same fuselage
mounting gear location for the landing gear? Can I shorten the forward
landing gear tube and lengthen the rear tube? Am I missing something?
Tim White
(Long fuselage, C-85-12)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
If you think ABE might like to spend his summer vacations on a farm....let me know.
Jim...on the farm.
PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
>Sent: Feb 18, 2011 9:00 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet outdoors
>
>
>He is a Yorkshire terrier 8 months old. We had an outdoor rat and mouse problem
before "ABE" came on the scene. PETA would not like him. He kills every one
he can find.
>
>--------
>Jerry Dotson
>59 Daniel Johnson Rd
>Baker, FL 32531
>
>Started building NX510JD July, 2009
>wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
>using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331478#331478
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Inspired by The Other Jack |
I think it was Jack T. who, a few weeks ago, sent the picture of his rib
cutting jig..good idea!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Jerry,
Not grown on my property, and certainly not milled by me, but I started
gluing my struts today (hickory).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you
will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it
is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
ago. It looks just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Routed Spar weight |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
>From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought it
might be useful to share a bit of data on
the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me --
proving yet again how lucky I am. After
several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
arrived. Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take advantage
of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows, will
be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not to
reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the ribs.
As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars are
4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at the
top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the plans.
Please keep these deviations in mind, because
they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was ready
to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"), the
4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury strut
fittings will attach.
With that explanation, here are the data:
Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed Staboard
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed Starboard
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of sanding
inivolved. I probably spent about
the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
touched the router to the spar blanks.
Cheers, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Harmonic Vibrations |
I understand the need for jury struts, but was just wondering.Do wood struts
have the same vibration problem that metal struts do?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Harmonic Vibrations |
| From: | mike Hardaway <bkemike(at)gmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Routed Spar weight |
Kenneth, thanks for the detailed report on this. It agrees pretty well
with
my calculations on weight savings. I used =BE=94 spars without bevelled
tops
and routed the rear spars only, using a bullnosed router bit as you
described. By my calculations I saved 3.89 lbs by routing the rear
spars
from =BE=94 down to =BD=94 in the middle. Obviously, using 1=94 spars
you saved even
more.
This is the kind of good hard data that is useful to refute arguments.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Bickers
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Routed Spar weight
>From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought
it
might be useful to share a bit of data on
the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me
--
proving yet again how lucky I am. After
several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
arrived.
Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take
advantage
of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows,
will
be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not
to
reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the
ribs.
As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars
are
4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at
the
top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the
plans.
Please keep these deviations in mind, because
they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was
ready
to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"),
the
4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury
strut
fittings will attach.
With that explanation, here are the data:
Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed
Staboard
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed
Starboard
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of
sanding
inivolved. I probably spent about
the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
touched the router to the spar blanks.
Cheers, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Harmonic Vibrations |
Yes. The only real advantage wood has over metal is that wood is not
subject to fatigue as metal is. But if you put the jury struts right in the
center of the lift struts you can still set up devastating harmonic
vibrations, where if you move the support point a few inches either way it
does not allow such harmonics to develop.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harmonic Vibrations
I understand the need for jury struts, but was just wondering.Do wood struts
have the same vibration problem that metal struts do?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Routed Spar weight |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Jack, thanks. One other way to look at this. Had I used un-routed 3/4"
spars that were
still beveled on top, the weight would have been just over 37.5 lbs. Mine
ended up 38 lbs.
The routed 1" spars are somewhat stronger than the 3/4" spars. Not a lot,
but some.
Cheers, Ken
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> Kenneth, thanks for the detailed report on this. It agrees pretty well
> with my calculations on weight savings. I used =BE=94 spars without beve
lled
> tops and routed the rear spars only, using a bullnosed router bit as you
> described. By my calculations I saved 3.89 lbs by routing the rear spars
> from =BE=94 down to =BD=94 in the middle. Obviously, using 1=94 spars yo
u saved even
> more.
>
>
> This is the kind of good hard data that is useful to refute arguments.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth Bickers
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:58 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Routed Spar weight
>
>
> From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought i
t
> might be useful to share a bit of data on
>
> the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
>
>
> For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me
--
> proving yet again how lucky I am. After
>
> several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
> arrived. Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
>
>
> I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take
> advantage of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
>
> each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows, wil
l
> be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
>
> a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not t
o
> reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
>
> but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the ribs
.
> As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
>
> on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars are
> 4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
>
> aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at the
> top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
>
> extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the
> plans. Please keep these deviations in mind, because
>
> they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
>
>
> After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was
> ready to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
>
> sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
> capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
>
> end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
> that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
>
> used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
> chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
>
> in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"), th
e
> 4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
>
> section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury str
ut
> fittings will attach.
>
>
> With that explanation, here are the data:
>
>
> Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed Staboard
> Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
>
> Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
> Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
>
> Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed Starboar
d
> Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
>
> Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
> Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
>
>
> For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
> from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
>
> approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
>
>
> As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
> routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
>
> each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of sandin
g
> inivolved. I probably spent about
>
> the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
> touched the router to the spar blanks.
>
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
Wing struts or wing spars Gary?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:26:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
Jerry,
Not grown on my property, and certainly not milled by me, but I started
gluing my struts today (hickory).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you
will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it
is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
ago. It looks just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inspired by The Other Jack |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Not Jack T, I try to stay away from 1.8meg files. Nice pic though...
Jack T
DSM
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 19, 2011, at 6:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
> I think it was Jack T. who, a few weeks ago, sent the picture of his rib c
utting jig.good idea!
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Tubing |
| From: | "Ken_P" <ken.potts1(at)gmail.com> |
Yes Gary,
I feel I must verify Jack's integrity. He has sworn to not disparage Covair
engines for another 28 days and counting and he's done an admirable job so far
even though I tried to draw him out today (he's undoubtedly a better man than
I).
However, he hasn't sworn off declaring the CH750 as "Uglier than the box a sonex
was delivered in" and I fully expect to hear about that.
And when he finds himself in Australia I hope he will look me up and teach me
how to fly that spam can.
Back to lurking...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331589#331589
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Making some headway on the gear. One picture here
http://textors.com/IMG_7897_800x533.jpg , others here
http://textors.com/PietProject.html
I do plan to cut lightening holes in the bottom strap. Still a long way to
go!
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Vic
I am using a Lycoming O-235 C2C off a Yankee. I want to show as much of the engine
as I can and it still look pretty good.
Does anyone have any pictures of scantily cowled Piets ? I want just enough so
it doesn't look UN-cowled. I have been looking
on West Coast Piet. I will be running a big ol' ugly muffler on it so minimal
cowl and it still looking good will be a challenge.
Gary Great you got the ribs done...now put them on some spars. Where do you find
hickory?
Mr Markle I asked ABE about spending summers in Oklahoma and he said summers too
hot.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331604#331604
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00333_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Struts. I already have fir spars.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
Wing struts or wing spars Gary?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:26:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
Jerry,
Not grown on my property, and certainly not milled by me, but I started
gluing my struts today (hickory).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you
will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it
is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
ago. It looks just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
Jerry,
I live in a very small town, but am fortunate to have a local supplier who
specializes in hardwood flooring. Additionally, the owner is fond of his
memories of helping to build a Pitts, and seems to know what A/C grade wood
should be. He personally delivered my spar material after picking them out
from a wholesaler. They allow me to sort thru all the wood I need to find
the best grain.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 5:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet outdoors
Vic
I am using a Lycoming O-235 C2C off a Yankee. I want to show as much of the
engine as I can and it still look pretty good.
Does anyone have any pictures of scantily cowled Piets ? I want just enough
so it doesn't look UN-cowled. I have been looking
on West Coast Piet. I will be running a big ol' ugly muffler on it so
minimal cowl and it still looking good will be a challenge.
Gary Great you got the ribs done...now put them on some spars. Where do you
find hickory?
Mr Markle I asked ABE about spending summers in Oklahoma and he said summers
too hot.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331604#331604
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00333_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Headlines: Wife Sacrifices Room to A/C Project |
A bit cool for Resorcinol glue, so I brought everything in to the only room
left un-remodeled (sort of the 'catch all').
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com> |
For my bottom straps I used carpenters framing squares- picked up at a ya
rd sale =0A,Bernard used them on one of his ,I figured it would-be-neat
, and at-1.00 each =0Awhat the heck...=0A----------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
------------------=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Sun, February 20, 2011 6:56:14 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol
-List: Gear strap=0A=0AMaking some headway on the gear.- One picture here
=0Ahttp://textors.com/IMG_7897_800x533.jpg , others here=0Ahttp://textors.c
om/PietProject.html =0AI do plan to cut lightening holes in the bottom stra
p.- Still a long way to=0Ago!=0AJack=0ADSM=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Continental A-65-8 for sale on ebay |
| From: | Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com> |
Here is the item no. 250776562325.
Engine in service on Cub now. Under 300 hrs. SMOH. 9 days to go.
Of course, this is the no gen., no starter, hand-propping A-65,
As of now bids just over $1000. Dallas-Ft. Worth area.
I have no skin in the game on this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headlines: Wife Sacrifices Room to A/C Project |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Gary,
Looks like the exercise machine is in worn out condition. I have a treadmill in
same condition. Makes a good coat rack though. Do you expect to fly this year?
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331629#331629
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Headlines: Wife Sacrifices Room to A/C Project |
Yeah, that machine beckons me all the time...but I'm deaf.
Think I still got another year. I just finished re-organizing the garage to
make room for wings hoisted to the ceiling. Except for a couple loose ends
on electric and fuel, the fuselage and tail are ready for cover.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Headlines: Wife Sacrifices Room to A/C Project
Gary,
Looks like the exercise machine is in worn out condition. I have a treadmill
in same condition. Makes a good coat rack though. Do you expect to fly this
year?
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331629#331629
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Finally got to Fly |
Every weekend for the past month it has been warm enough to fly in an
open
cockpit, but the winds were so strong that it would just not be
enjoyable.
For example, last Monday it was 72 degrees, but the winds were 42 knots
with
gusts to 60 knots, directly across the runway. No thank you.
Today after church it finally seemed to be as close to perfect as I=92m
likely
to see for a while ' temperature 55=B0 and winds 160 at 8 knots (the
runway
here at Smith Mountain Lake is 5/23). So I pulled the Pietenpol out of
the
hangar for her first flight since November. The faithful non-Corvair
started on the first blade. I back-taxied down the runway to take off
on
runway 23, enjoying the nice firm braking (I had bled the brakes
yesterday
and they are the best they=92ve ever been).
I took off and set up a nice crab angle to keep me over the runway
centerline and cruised out over the lake. I got as high as 800 feet AGL
and
enjoyed the nice crisp cool air for about 20 minutes, waving to the boat
traffic on the lake, before I began to feel cold. So I turned around
and
headed back to the airport and entered the traffic pattern on a left
crosswind for 23. As I made the left turn to downwind, I noticed that
the
ailerons felt VERY stiff. I tried a turn to the right ' no problem.
Another turn to the left ' VERY stiff. I found I could only move the
stick
about 2=94 past centerline to the left, and that took quite an effort.
Sphincter clinch. I needed some left aileron to handle the left
crosswind.
I went ahead and made the approach, and when I turned final I set up the
slip to hold the crosswind. It took both hands to force the stick over
far
enough to compensate for the wind. I had decided that if I couldn=92t
hold
the crosswind with the little bit of left aileron I had available, I
would
go around and land on 5, where the crosswind would be from my right, but
I
would also have a pretty good tailwind component. Once I got near the
ground, and the trees blocked some of the wind, I found I could relax a
little of the pressure on the stick and actually made a nice 3-point
landing. I immediately pulled into the FBO=92s ramp and got out to see
what
had caused the problem.
What I found was that the front seatback cushion had come loose from its
velcro and had fallen forward, blocking the front stick whenever I tried
to
use left aileron. I now have a bungee cord holding the seatback cushion
in
place to prevent this. The primary culprit seems to be the fact that I
had
not flown the airplane in so long. So as spring creeps its way north,
and
you get ready to fly your plane again for the first time in months, pay
extra attention to all the little things that can relax or get loose
over a
long cold winter.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Jack so proud you got to fly and put it up with no wrinkles in it. Murphy's law
still exists! I am wanting to fly so bad and my plane is at least 2 if not 3
or 4 months away from being finished. I have to tell myself...don't get in a hurry,
no shortcuts, etc so the finished product looks like I want it. Are your
seat belts removable ? I have been thinking about that and what happened to you
is making me think harder. 77 here right now. Just came in for a drink....building
rudder pedals.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331640#331640
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
Hi Jerry,
No, my seatbelts are not intentionally removable. Why would you want them
removable? I guess I could unbolt the front ones easily enough, but there's
no reason to. Actually, the front seatbelt is usually pulled down tight
over the bottom seat cushion, preventing it from doing what the seatback
cushion did today.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally got to Fly
Jack so proud you got to fly and put it up with no wrinkles in it. Murphy's
law still exists! I am wanting to fly so bad and my plane is at least 2 if
not 3 or 4 months away from being finished. I have to tell myself...don't
get in a hurry, no shortcuts, etc so the finished product looks like I want
it. Are your seat belts removable ? I have been thinking about that and what
happened to you is making me think harder. 77 here right now. Just came in
for a drink....building rudder pedals.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331640#331640
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
Hi Jack,I am glad it worked out so you could get it on the ground safely, I have
seat belt attach points but still have not figured out how to keep away from
my big feet.. Gardiner
,
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally got to Fly
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 5:30 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jack Phillips"
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> No, my seatbelts are not intentionally removable. Why
> would you want them
> removable? I guess I could unbolt the front ones
> easily enough, but there's
> no reason to. Actually, the front seatbelt is usually
> pulled down tight
> over the bottom seat cushion, preventing it from doing what
> the seatback
> cushion did today.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:45 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally got to Fly
>
>
>
> Jack so proud you got to fly and put it up with no wrinkles
> in it. Murphy's
> law still exists! I am wanting to fly so bad and my plane
> is at least 2 if
> not 3 or 4 months away from being finished. I have to tell
> myself...don't
> get in a hurry, no shortcuts, etc so the finished product
> looks like I want
> it. Are your seat belts removable ? I have been thinking
> about that and what
> happened to you is making me think harder. 77 here right
> now. Just came in
> for a drink....building rudder pedals.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331640#331640
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Jack the only reason I would want to remove them is from looking at cockpit pictures
with the belts in a pile on the floor next to the rear rudder pedals. I
am not to that point but I want them out of my way when flying solo which will
most likely be 90% of the time.
Gary the drink is coffee. I learned a long time ago that alcohol heightens the
ambitions and lessons the performance. So whilst working on the Piet coffee and
water.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331654#331654
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Freaky control jams |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
After reading Jack's control jam issue, I wanted to share this. In 2003 two
of my sons and flew the Aeronca Sedan down to Kitty Hawk to celebrate the
100th anniversary of flight. On the way home we stopped for fuel at a mount
ain strip that was down in a little valley surrounded my mountains on all s
ides. My son was PIC and did a run-up and control check at the end of the r
unway. He lined-up and gave her the gun. We proceeded down the runway and r
ight before lift-off the engine sputtered and quit. After looking around a
bit, we discovered that the mixture control had been pulled out. We had (fo
r the first time) been using one of those control yoke GPS attachments that
clamps onto the yoke tube. When my son was checking the controls for freed
om of movement, this attachment had gotten behind the mixture control knob
and inadvertently pulled it out without our knowledge.
Close call for sure. One of those freaky things that can reach out and kill
you................ Be careful out there!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starting final assembly |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,finally done with the paint and powder coating,should have her in the air
in may,dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331663#331663
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_02_20_12_07_57_922_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_02_20_09_52_56_821_820.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Future Piet flyer |
Well I couldn't resist sharing this picture of my 2 yr old "helping" me in
the shop, he is sitting in the future "Ernst Kessler", bipe, Like a Piet on
ly smaller......and 2 wings....and- has a weird shaped turtle deck.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Future Piet flyer |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I don't think he has a weird shaped turtle deck. He looks just fine.
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 6:43 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Well I couldn't resist sharing this picture of my 2 yr old "helping" me
> in the shop, he is sitting in the future "Ernst Kessler", bipe, Like a Piet
> only smaller......and 2 wings....and has a weird shaped turtle deck.
>
> Shad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Tubing |
Dear group,
Since this topic is appropriate to my question, I will "Hijack it".
I am building the Sky Scout and the landing gear calls for "Streamline tube
No. 1695" for the rear landing "strut". Does anyone know the specifics of
this tubing? I ordered Chromoly Streamline tubing from ACS of the correct
dimensions (1.5"X3/4") but its wall thickness is only .049, the thickest
they carry. This seems rather thin compared to the front tube of the
landing gear which is 1.5" X 11 gauge wall thickness. I have the parts cut
out but will await your sage advice before welding.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs., building Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken_P" <ken.potts1(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
>
> Yes Gary,
> I feel I must verify Jack's integrity. He has sworn to not disparage
> Covair engines for another 28 days and counting and he's done an admirable
> job so far even though I tried to draw him out today (he's undoubtedly a
> better man than I).
> However, he hasn't sworn off declaring the CH750 as "Uglier than the box
> a sonex was delivered in" and I fully expect to hear about that.
> And when he finds himself in Australia I hope he will look me up and
> teach me how to fly that spam can.
> Back to lurking...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331589#331589
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
I keep my front belts out of the way when solo by twisting the shoulder
harnesses around each other a few times, then buckling them to the lap
belt, then drawing that tight. Keeps everything out of the way. It
wouldn't be safe to fly without these belts secured, but it would be a
pain to reinstall them when you wanted to take a passenger, and you
might find that happening more often than you think.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Florida
On 2/20/2011 7:00 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> Jack the only reason I would want to remove them is from looking at cockpit pictures
with the belts in a pile on the floor next to the rear rudder pedals.
I am not to that point but I want them out of my way when flying solo which will
most likely be 90% of the time.
>
> Gary the drink is coffee. I learned a long time ago that alcohol heightens the
ambitions and lessons the performance. So whilst working on the Piet coffee
and water.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331654#331654
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finally got to Fly |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
A good reason to implement the patented "Mike Cuy" removable front joy
stick.
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
> I keep my front belts out of the way when solo by twisting the shoulder
> harnesses around each other a few times, then buckling them to the lap belt,
> then drawing that tight. Keeps everything out of the way. It wouldn't be
> safe to fly without these belts secured, but it would be a pain to reinstall
> them when you wanted to take a passenger, and you might find that happening
> more often than you think.
>
> Ben Charvet
> Titusville, Florida
> On 2/20/2011 7:00 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<
>> jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
>>
>> Jack the only reason I would want to remove them is from looking at
>> cockpit pictures with the belts in a pile on the floor next to the rear
>> rudder pedals. I am not to that point but I want them out of my way when
>> flying solo which will most likely be 90% of the time.
>>
>> Gary the drink is coffee. I learned a long time ago that alcohol heightens
>> the ambitions and lessons the performance. So whilst working on the Piet
>> coffee and water.
>>
>> --------
>> Jerry Dotson
>> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
>> Baker, FL 32531
>>
>> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
>> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
>> using Lycoming O-235
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331654#331654
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Did you guys rib lace your ailerons?
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starting final assembly |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Wow, you work fast Dave. Only wish the pics were a bit smaller so that I don't
have to scroll all over the screen to see what I'm supposed to be looking at.
If you need tips on how to resize your photos, feel free to contact me offline
at billmz (at) cox dot net. Just type in the email address in the normal
format...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331683#331683
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starting final assembly |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
I've taken the liberty of resizing the images and reposting them...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331685#331685
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dangerdaveresized002_209.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dangerdaveresized001_201.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Out of town on business back on Monday |
Sux being me
A few pics to share
Aloha
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Where's waldo any Piet builders here |
80s during the day gosh I like this place
Anyone building a Piet here in Hawaii
Don Ho rules
Aloha
John
Tiny bibles to all
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Out of town on business back on Monday |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
John what in the world are you doing at Pearl Harbor? Never heard of need for a
safety man there. You come on home now.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331699#331699
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Tubing |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Ray,
A few years ago I had to fabricate a tailwheel bracket assembly for My Aero
nca Sedan (legal because there are non available) all made out of various s
izes of streamline tubing. I was faced with the same situation as you. The
main strut tubing that was used in 1948 was thicker than what I could get.
So I noticed that I could order the next size smaller and it would actually
slide inside of the thin walled tube, with a little filing/grinding. The e
nds were all welded in my assembly so nobody was the wiser. I was assured t
hat the final product was as strong or stronger that the original. Don't kn
ow if this trick will work for you. If not maybe you could slip some round
or square tube in there and weld the two together.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
et>
Dear group,
Since this topic is appropriate to my question, I will "Hijack it".
I am building the Sky Scout and the landing gear calls for "Streamline tube
o. 1695" for the rear landing "strut". Does anyone know the specifics of
his tubing? I ordered Chromoly Streamline tubing from ACS of the correct
imensions (1.5"X3/4") but its wall thickness is only .049, the thickest
hey carry. This seems rather thin compared to the front tube of the
anding gear which is 1.5" X 11 gauge wall thickness. I have the parts cut
ut but will await your sage advice before welding.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
odified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
era 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs., building Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
rom: "Ken_P"
o:
ent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:54 PM
ubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
Yes Gary,
I feel I must verify Jack's integrity. He has sworn to not disparage
Covair engines for another 28 days and counting and he's done an admirable
job so far even though I tried to draw him out today (he's undoubtedly a
better man than I).
However, he hasn't sworn off declaring the CH750 as "Uglier than the box
a sonex was delivered in" and I fully expect to hear about that.
And when he finds himself in Australia I hope he will look me up and
teach me how to fly that spam can.
Back to lurking...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331589#331589
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron lacing |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I rib-laced mine.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 8:41 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron lacing
Did you guys rib lace your ailerons?
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Yep. They're part of the wing aren't they? Did all the tail surfaces, too.
I hate it when you are diving down on the tail of a black and yellow German
and suddenly hear the fabric ripping off your flying surfaces.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 9:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron lacing
Did you guys rib lace your ailerons?
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Anyone heard from Jeff lately? JEFF, are you out there? Everything OK?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Finally got to Fly |
I finally took the time to patch the slow leak on the port side
inner tube (thanks to John Kuhfahl for the tire patch kit!) and
took Scout up yesterday. It's been windy here too, but it's good
practice to fly when it's less than ideal and it turned out to be
fun to go up with some gusty x-winds. Flew over to fuel up at a
neighboring field and landed into what must have been a 15-18 MPH
quartering headwind, landed so short that I ended up taxiing a quarter
of the length of the runway just to get to the turnoff. It was
great to be up flying, especially solo with a brisk wind so the
airplane really climbs out.
The seatbelts and shoulder harness in the front cockpit of my airplane
are quickly and easily removable and I wouldn't have it any other
way. They just get in the way of your feet when there is nobody
up front.
And a comment on AmSafety's post: that would be tiny BUBBLES, not
tiny BIBLES, that Don Ho sang about. However, Bibles of any shape
and size are a good thing too ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | YouTube video - working on the firewall... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Hello list,
A friend of mine (thanks Ron) took another video yesterday of my Pietenpol project.
This one focuses on "engine turning" the firewall.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lakefrontseattle#p/a/u/0/q-EfkzEjQOo
For clarification... I stumbled my speaking a bit when talking about the product I used to build the burnishing tool. It's called "Cratex" and is available at places that sell machining supplies. I bought a couple sticks local here in Seattle. The largest size is a 2" x 1" x 6" rectangular bar and it is part number 6168C. (Also available online - for example: http://www.grithappens.com/products.php?m=cratex&mid=25&cat=390)
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331718#331718
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jeff Boatright |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I know that he is alive, but don't ask me how I know. LOL!
Surely he'll be around to say howdy.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331727#331727
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Beats the heck out of your CRANK SNAPPIN.
Easy Jack.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 6:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron lacing
Yep. They're part of the wing aren't they? Did all the tail surfaces, too.
I hate it when you are diving down on the tail of a black and yellow German
and suddenly hear the fabric ripping off your flying surfaces.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 9:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron lacing
Did you guys rib lace your ailerons?
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: YouTube video - working on the firewall... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Jack.... having' lots of fun - this building a plane thing...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331782#331782
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamline Tubing |
Thanks, Dan. But we do not know what the No. 1695 dimensions were,
right? What does the Air Camper recommend as far as Streamline tubing
goes?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
Hi Ray,
A few years ago I had to fabricate a tailwheel bracket assembly for My
Aeronca Sedan (legal because there are non available) all made out of
various sizes of streamline tubing. I was faced with the same situation
as you. The main strut tubing that was used in 1948 was thicker than
what I could get. So I noticed that I could order the next size smaller
and it would actually slide inside of the thin walled tube, with a
little filing/grinding. The ends were all welded in my assembly so
nobody was the wiser. I was assured that the final product was as strong
or stronger that the original. Don't know if this trick will work for
you. If not maybe you could slip some round or square tube in there and
weld the two together.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
Dear group,
Since this topic is appropriate to my question, I will "Hijack it".
I am building the Sky Scout and the landing gear calls for "Streamline
tube
No. 1695" for the rear landing "strut". Does anyone know the specifics
of
this tubing? I ordered Chromoly Streamline tubing from ACS of the
correct
dimensions (1.5"X3/4") but its wall thickness is only .049, the thickest
they carry. This seems rather thin compared to the front tube of the
landing gear which is 1.5" X 11 gauge wall thickness. I have the parts
cut
out but will await your sage advice before welding.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder,
Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs., building Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken_P" <ken.potts1(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamline Tubing
>
> Yes Gary,
> I feel I must verify Jack's integrity. He has sworn to not
disparage
> Covair engines for another 28 days and counting and he's done an
admirable
> job so far even though I tried to draw him out today (he's undoubtedly
a
> better man than I).
> However, he hasn't sworn off declaring the CH750 as "Uglier than the
box
> a sonex was delivered in" and I fully expect to hear about that.
> And when he finds himself in Australia I hope he will look me up and
> teach me how to fly that spam can.
> Back to lurking...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331589#331589
>
>
>
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Chrome Moly 4130 for straight axle? |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi all....just to confirm in my head before I place the order. We are using 4130
Chrome Moly tube for the straight axle?
Regards Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331795#331795
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chrome Moly 4130 for straight axle? |
That is correct. Use 4130 for the axle.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chrome Moly 4130 for straight axle?
>
>
> Hi all....just to confirm in my head before I place the order. We are
> using 4130 Chrome Moly tube for the straight axle?
>
> Regards Scotty
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331795#331795
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chrome Moly 4130 for straight axle? |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
Thanks Greg!
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331800#331800
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chrome Moly 4130 for straight axle? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I used 0.188" wall 4130. I think the plans call for 0.120" wall. The axles extend
beyond the bungees for brakes and just to get a little more width on the gear.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331801#331801
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piqua, OH Airport |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
FYI. At last weeks local EAA meeting I learned that this summer the Piqua Airport
- Hartzell Field will build a 2400' X 90' grass runway in hopes of attracting
more tail draggers.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331804#331804
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jerry wrote:
>I want to show as much of the engine as I can and it
>still look pretty good. Does anyone have any pictures
>of scantily cowled Piets?
You bet. Look here:
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0DickNavratil/15-3DickAtOsh07.htm
That's about as scantily clad as Madonna in her infamous book.
You knew somebody was going to do that, didn't you? ;o)
By the way, I have flown Scout without the engine cowlings on it
and I can tell you from personal experience that it changes the
glide profile on final approach to basically that of a ship's
anchor as it drops. Honestly, it scared me when I pulled
the power off. I don't know if Dick's plane drops like mine
did but I'll bet it does and I'll bet he has to carry power
all the way into the flare or it will turn into a plow.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | seat belt and cushions |
Another reason not to have seat cushions. :) Kidding Jack-glad you s
wapped runways for more favorable control authority.
During preflight I make sure my front seat belt is wrapped and buckled arou
nd the control cables that run along the right side
of the top right longeron to keep it out of my rudder bar area.
My front seat bottom is velcro'ed to the frame so as a routine I will pop t
hat off to make sure there are no golf balls, beer cans,
toy trucks, or snakes sitting down there-plus makes sure the fastners are i
n place before flight.
Mike C.
Glad you got to fly Jack ! We had 3.5" of snow last night after a wond
erful thaw where we could even see the GRASS again !
Twas not to last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Journey to the Groahs' |
Yesterday, Sacramento area Pietenpol builders Mike Weaver, Chris Tracy and I
made a 4-hr drive south to Tulare Ca., to see Mike and Vic Groah. Their Piet
is just about ready for cover! But when you go to see the Groah's, that just
the beginning!
To start things off, Mike & Vic's wives fixed a fantastic lunch of BBQ beef
sandwiches, potato salad, macaroni salad, etc!
Amazed at the loveliness of the corvair engine, Chris is speechless! FYI.We
had 'them' outnumbered 3-1!. Mike and his dad are just about ready to
dismantle their Pietenpol for cover.
Chris & Mike.jpg
Near-convert, Chris Tracy, demonstrates the starting procedure on a corvair
powered Pietenpol.
Starting a Corvair.jpg
Vic is a retired HS auto shop teacher. He loves really old cars, and every
year, at his expense, he would bring a car to the class to restore. This is
a 1912 Kissel, restored 25 years ago, and still gets blue ribbons as you can
see.2010 Best in Class!
1912 Kissel.jpg
Typical of the generosity of the Groahs', and Pietenpol builders in general,
Mike Weaver left with four wing struts (from a Citabria) that were part of a
bulk buy that the Mike & Vic lucked upon. They merely wanted to pass their
good fortune on to another builder!
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
Hey Oscar
I have two Piets so I can tell you I really don't notice the difference very
much. You are right though, I carry power into landing till I am on the
ground. But I do that with my A-65 Piet also.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
Jerry wrote:
>I want to show as much of the engine as I can and it
>still look pretty good. Does anyone have any pictures
>of scantily cowled Piets?
You bet. Look here:
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0DickNavratil/15-3DickAtOsh07.htm
That's about as scantily clad as Madonna in her infamous book.
You knew somebody was going to do that, didn't you? ;o)
By the way, I have flown Scout without the engine cowlings on it
and I can tell you from personal experience that it changes the
glide profile on final approach to basically that of a ship's
anchor as it drops. Honestly, it scared me when I pulled
the power off. I don't know if Dick's plane drops like mine
did but I'll bet it does and I'll bet he has to carry power
all the way into the flare or it will turn into a plow.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Looks/sounds like a good time. Thanks for sharing!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331831#331831
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
Really nice. How did your fuselage door work out?
~ Keri-Ann
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331838#331838
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
Jerry,
There is a red piet on the westcoastpiet.com site that has a very bare
cowl. To continue Oscar's analogy, it's more like a nekkid lady in any
issue of Playboy. I kinda like it, but the guy certainly has cylinder
temp issues because he doesn't have eyebrows on the engine - you MUST
put eyebrows on your slow moving Piet if you don't have a pressure cowl.
Heh. I think I just came up with a name for your Piet: Hot 'n Bothered.
Here's the plane I'm thinking of:
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Red%20One/images/45_red_piet.jpg
This Piet made it to the MAAC Grassroots fly-in this past year and from
what I can tell it had either a new engine or it was completely
overhauled recently, probably because he burned out the old one. And
yes, he still didn't have eyebrows on the cylinders (see attached photo).
The only plane with an A-65 that goes fast enough to not require
eyebrows or a pressure cowl is the Mooney Mite, and that's because it
cruises at 125mph and there's plenty of air moving over the cylinders at
that speed.
Cheers!
Dan
On 02/22/2011 07:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga
>
>
> Jerry wrote:
>
>> I want to show as much of the engine as I can and it
>> still look pretty good. Does anyone have any pictures
>> of scantily cowled Piets?
>
> You bet. Look here:
>
> http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0DickNavratil/15-3DickAtOsh07.htm
>
> That's about as scantily clad as Madonna in her infamous book.
>
> You knew somebody was going to do that, didn't you? ;o)
> By the way, I have flown Scout without the engine cowlings on it
> and I can tell you from personal experience that it changes the
> glide profile on final approach to basically that of a ship's
> anchor as it drops. Honestly, it scared me when I pulled
> the power off. I don't know if Dick's plane drops like mine
> did but I'll bet it does and I'll bet he has to carry power
> all the way into the flare or it will turn into a plow.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Journey to the Groahs' |
"Amazed at the loveliness of the corvair engine, Chris is speechless."
I too am speechless. For 24 more days.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Journey to the Groahs'
Yesterday, Sacramento area Pietenpol builders Mike Weaver, Chris Tracy and I
made a 4-hr drive south to Tulare Ca., to see Mike and Vic Groah. Their Piet
is just about ready for cover! But when you go to see the Groah's, that just
the beginning!
To start things off, Mike & Vic's wives fixed a fantastic lunch of BBQ beef
sandwiches, potato salad, macaroni salad, etc!
Amazed at the loveliness of the corvair engine, Chris is speechless! FYI.We
had 'them' outnumbered 3-1!. Mike and his dad are just about ready to
dismantle their Pietenpol for cover.
Chris & Mike.jpg
Near-convert, Chris Tracy, demonstrates the starting procedure on a corvair
powered Pietenpol.
Starting a Corvair.jpg
Vic is a retired HS auto shop teacher. He loves really old cars, and every
year, at his expense, he would bring a car to the class to restore. This is
a 1912 Kissel, restored 25 years ago, and still gets blue ribbons as you can
see.2010 Best in Class!
1912 Kissel.jpg
Typical of the generosity of the Groahs', and Pietenpol builders in general,
Mike Weaver left with four wing struts (from a Citabria) that were part of a
bulk buy that the Mike & Vic lucked upon. They merely wanted to pass their
good fortune on to another builder!
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
The door is wonderful !!! I would not be able to get my six foot three inc
h bad back self into the plane without it. I would recommend it to anyone
building a Piet. Even if you are young and limber you may want to take mom
or dad for a ride. It is the way to go. The weight gain is not great but
the convenience is well worth it. Vic 414MV
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
> From: keriannprice(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 22 Feb 2011 10:32:39 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
om>
>
> Really nice. How did your fuselage door work out?
>
> ~ Keri-Ann
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331838#331838
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
That one belongs to Jack Reber of the Anderson, IN area, an old friend
of mine. That plane has been flying for about 40 years with a recover
around 1991-92. Jack originally had a Model-A on it and switched over to
the Continental in the last few years. He also built a Sky Scout a
couple of years ago. He is a really great guy and I almost always run
into him at the Pietenpol flyin. I think when he flew to Brodhead for
Grassroots it was the first time he had the plane up here. If you get a
chance to talk to him it is worth the time.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> There is a red piet on the westcoastpiet.com site that has a very bare
cowl. To continue Oscar's analogy, it's more like a nekkid lady in any
issue of Playboy. I kinda like it, but the guy certainly has cylinder
temp issues because he doesn't have eyebrows on the engine - you MUST
put eyebrows on your slow moving Piet if you don't have a pressure cowl.
>
> Heh. I think I just came up with a name for your Piet: Hot 'n
Bothered.
>
> Here's the plane I'm thinking of:
>
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Red%20One/images/45_red_piet.jpg
>
> This Piet made it to the MAAC Grassroots fly-in this past year and
from what I can tell it had either a new engine or it was completely
overhauled recently, probably because he burned out the old one. And
yes, he still didn't have eyebrows on the cylinders (see attached
photo).
>
> The only plane with an A-65 that goes fast enough to not require
eyebrows or a pressure cowl is the Mooney Mite, and that's because it
cruises at 125mph and there's plenty of air moving over the cylinders at
that speed.
>
> Cheers!
> Dan
>
>
>
> On 02/22/2011 07:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar
Zuniga
>>
>>
>> Jerry wrote:
>>
>>> I want to show as much of the engine as I can and it
>>> still look pretty good. Does anyone have any pictures
>>> of scantily cowled Piets?
>>
>> You bet. Look here:
>>
>> http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0DickNavratil/15-3DickAtOsh07.htm
>>
>> That's about as scantily clad as Madonna in her infamous book.
>>
>> You knew somebody was going to do that, didn't you? ;o)
>> By the way, I have flown Scout without the engine cowlings on it
>> and I can tell you from personal experience that it changes the
>> glide profile on final approach to basically that of a ship's
>> anchor as it drops. Honestly, it scared me when I pulled
>> the power off. I don't know if Dick's plane drops like mine
>> did but I'll bet it does and I'll bet he has to carry power
>> all the way into the flare or it will turn into a plow.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> San Antonio, TX
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Journey to the Groahs' |
Gary=2C
Mike and I are so happy you chose to make the long trip to our place in Tul
are. It was a great thing for us to have you come. We both cherish the as
sociation and friendship that comes from the mutual interest of our joint h
obby. We have found the people in the Piet group to be super friendly and
a great help to us in our building of this plane. Each person brings ideas
and suggestions that make our project better. Even the aircraft engine on
ly guys have good ideas. They just don't think out of the box as much.
We welcome any of you Piet guys and gals to come and visit our humble shop
and effort. We love sharing and hope to come to some of the other guys sho
ps in the future. There are other Piet people not too far away that have n
ot come=2C at least recently we would like to open the door to.
Thanks again to Mike=2C Chris and Gary for coming to Tulare. We loved the
visit a lot.
Vic and Mike
Ps We have more of those used struts available. VG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TGSTONE236(at)aol.com |
I haven't heard anything on how well the Pietenpol list is contributing to
help out at Brodhead.
Ted Stone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The other Piet with an "exposed" engine that comes to mind Alan Wise's N3513, which
is now housed at the Sun n Fun museum.
It leaves a little more to the imagination than the Red Piet previously mentioned,
and has (brass) cooling eyebrows.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/n3513/images/IMG_1071.jpg
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331850#331850
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
Are there any plans for the door? If so, how can I get a set? I might
be able to incorporate it -- I'm not that far along -- don't have the
1/8th in. plywood on the sides yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: V Groah
To: piet list
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
The door is wonderful !!! I would not be able to get my six foot
three inch bad back self into the plane without it. I would recommend
it to anyone building a Piet. Even if you are young and limber you may
want to take mom or dad for a ride. It is the way to go. The weight
gain is not great but the convenience is well worth it. Vic 414MV
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
> From: keriannprice(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:32:39 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Really nice. How did your fuselage door work out?
>
> ~ Keri-Ann
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331838#331838
>
>
= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
&g====================
> _====
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
John,
Do you have a contact for Jack Reber? If he built a Sky Scout, I would
like to ask him some questions.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder,
Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs., building a Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
That one belongs to Jack Reber of the Anderson, IN area, an old friend
of mine. That plane has been flying for about 40 years with a recover
around 1991-92. Jack originally had a Model-A on it and switched over to
the Continental in the last few years. He also built a Sky Scout a
couple of years ago. He is a really great guy and I almost always run
into him at the Pietenpol flyin. I think when he flew to Brodhead for
Grassroots it was the first time he had the plane up here. If you get a
chance to talk to him it is worth the time.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
Jerry,
There is a red piet on the westcoastpiet.com site that has a very
bare cowl. To continue Oscar's analogy, it's more like a nekkid lady in
any issue of Playboy. I kinda like it, but the guy certainly has
cylinder temp issues because he doesn't have eyebrows on the engine -
you MUST put eyebrows on your slow moving Piet if you don't have a
pressure cowl.
Heh. I think I just came up with a name for your Piet: Hot 'n
Bothered.
Here's the plane I'm thinking of:
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Red%20One/images/45_red_piet.jpg
This Piet made it to the MAAC Grassroots fly-in this past year and
from what I can tell it had either a new engine or it was completely
overhauled recently, probably because he burned out the old one. And
yes, he still didn't have eyebrows on the cylinders (see attached
photo).
The only plane with an A-65 that goes fast enough to not require
eyebrows or a pressure cowl is the Mooney Mite, and that's because it
cruises at 125mph and there's plenty of air moving over the cylinders at
that speed.
Cheers!
Dan
On 02/22/2011 07:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar
Zuniga
Jerry wrote:
I want to show as much of the engine as I can and it
still look pretty good. Does anyone have any pictures
of scantily cowled Piets?
You bet. Look here:
http://www.rotecradialengines.com/0DickNavratil/15-3DickAtOsh07.htm
That's about as scantily clad as Madonna in her infamous book.
You knew somebody was going to do that, didn't you? ;o)
By the way, I have flown Scout without the engine cowlings on it
and I can tell you from personal experience that it changes the
glide profile on final approach to basically that of a ship's
anchor as it drops. Honestly, it scared me when I pulled
the power off. I don't know if Dick's plane drops like mine
did but I'll bet it does and I'll bet he has to carry power
all the way into the flare or it will turn into a plow.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
Yes=2C there is a great set of well engineered plans available at a reasona
ble cost. I will have Mike post the source for you. I do not have it righ
t now. Vic
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
Date: Tue=2C 22 Feb 2011 15:41:23 -0500
Are there any plans for the door? If so=2C how can I get a set? I might b
e able to incorporate it -- I'm not that far along -- don't have the 1/8th
in. plywood on the sides yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: V Groah
Sent: Tuesday=2C February 22=2C 2011 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
The door is wonderful !!! I would not be able to get my six foot three inc
h bad back self into the plane without it. I would recommend it to anyone
building a Piet. Even if you are young and limber you may want to take mom
or dad for a ride. It is the way to go. The weight gain is not great but
the convenience is well worth it. Vic 414MV
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
> From: keriannprice(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 22 Feb 2011 10:32:39 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
om>
>
> Really nice. How did your fuselage door work out?
>
> ~ Keri-Ann
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331838#331838
>
>
= Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
&g====================
> _====
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Thanks for the links. I think the more engine that shows the more it looks like
and old design. I will make eyebrows for sure.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331872#331872
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
| From: | "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net> |
I would like to make a journey over some day to see. I have been following the
boards here for several years and still never actually seen a Piet. I am out of
Colorado, but currently working in Paso Robles
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331890#331890
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
You REALLY need to see a Pietenpol up close! Your life may never be the same
again! It's a short drive for you to Tulare, and you can contact Mike or Vic
directly at: vgroah(at)hotmail.com, dskogrover(at)yahoo.com. Have fun...
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of regchief
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Journey to the Groahs'
I would like to make a journey over some day to see. I have been following
the boards here for several years and still never actually seen a Piet. I am
out of Colorado, but currently working in Paso Robles
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331890#331890
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | How fast can you build it? |
I'm into year 6 on my Piet project. Could you believe it possible to turn
out a new B-24 every 55 minutes?
Here's a bit of aviation nostalgia to help you kill some time.
Stinemetze
N328X
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/15654030/1604819366/name/bomber_plant.wmv
Henry Ford was determined that he could mass produce bombers just as he
had done with cars. He built the Willow Run assembly plant and proved it.
It was the world's largest building under one roof. even then FORD HAD A
BETTER IDEA!
This film will absolutely blow you away - one B-24 every55 minutes. ADOLF
HITLER HAD NO IDEA THE U.S. WAS CAPABLE OF THIS KIND OF THING. There is
no way he could have even guessed.
For those who live outside of Michigan, Willow Run is near Bellville,
Canton and Ypsilanti, MI
It's amazing that one B-24 (built with over 1.225 million parts) came off
the assembly line every 55 minutes
Take a few minutes to watch this snapshot of history.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Journey to the Groahs' |
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
I went down to see Mike and Vic's Piet a couple weeks ago. Its was incredibly
helpfully. I will be starting the project soon, but the visit changed the entire
direction of the build for me and my buddy. The project is beautiful and
they are two of the nicest guys you will meet.
I was hoping to make it down again last Monday to meet the other California builders
but could not make it. Maybe I will see you at Frazier...
Mike
Prunedale
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331937#331937
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Good morning off topic |
I wanted to share this with all my friends as there is nothing more exciting
or stirring to the soul than the view this morning to charge the batteries.
Enjoy this with me today
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Jake's gorgeous engine-turning aluminum firewall results |
and You Tube video
EXCELLENT looking firewall Jake and front instrument panel and great tip ab
out how you determined what
was the best burnishing material and how you fabricated/ assembled your dri
ll press tooling for that and fixturing. http://www.youtube.com/user/Lake
frontseattle#p/a/u/0/q-EfkzEjQOo
Great looking project with your Rotec Radial engine !
Can't wait to see you take a Lindy Award when you bring that thing to Oshko
sh !
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Jake's gorgeous engine-turning aluminum firewall results |
and You Tube video
Yep. Certainly looks good, Jake.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jake's gorgeous engine-turning aluminum firewall
results and You Tube video
EXCELLENT looking firewall Jake and front instrument panel and great tip
about how you determined what
was the best burnishing material and how you fabricated/ assembled your
drill press tooling for that and fixturing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lakefrontseattle#p/a/u/0/q-EfkzEjQOo
Great looking project with your Rotec Radial engine !
Can't wait to see you take a Lindy Award when you bring that thing to
Oshkosh !
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How fast can you build it? |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Thats funny- I was just looking a pictures from Willow Run-
My grandfather was in charge of B-24 production during the war.
I'll see if i can get some picts scanned and posted
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331960#331960
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Just hangin around the airport yesterday |
| From: | "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
When this came bombing in. A one of a kind Piranha owned and piloted by M.D. Pinkston.
Just passin through the Ozarks with a Harmon Rocket and an RV-8 on thier
way back to western Kansas. I asked him, of course, how fast it would go.
He said "all depends on how much gas you want to use. Stall speed? About
130 mph. I googled it and found these specs: Lycoming 180 hp, empty weight 900
pounds, gross weight 3200 pounds, g-rated +- 16, fuel cap 60 gallons. Original
prototype built by American Electric for the military and only 6 or 7 more
were produced, all which were destroyed by the military but since this one belonged
to A.E., it survived. I know it has nothing to do with low and slow,
wood and fabric, Model A or Corvair but damn....... [Shocked]
P.S. I think Pinkston is at least 80 years old and has over 35,000 hrs. None
of which were airline hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331974#331974
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piranha_140.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental A-65-8 for sale on ebay |
| From: | "blue213" <lmarion1(at)comcast.net> |
Wow! I am selling my Franklins to cheap!
[quote="timwillis01(at)gmail.com"]Here is the item no. 250776562325.
Engine in service on Cub now. Under 300 hrs. SMOH. 9 days to go.
Of course, this is the no gen., no starter, hand-propping A-65,
As of now bids just over $1000. Dallas-Ft. Worth area.
I have no skin in the game on this.
> [b]
[Exclamation]
--------
Blue
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332009#332009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jake's gorgeous engine-turning aluminum firewall results |
and
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Fun stufffff.... thanks......
Clarification, however, I am using stainless steel for my firewall and instrument
panels. It should hold up better and my experiments with burnishing aluminum
just didn't look as good....
I know this may add a couple pounds but Piets are know to be tail heavy so weight
up front should not be as problematic. I am saving weight in other areas by
using 4130 steel-tube instead of wood for my fuselage and I will be using the
"improved" gear also to save a few pounds..........
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332010#332010
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental A-65-8 for sale on ebay |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
My low bid was canceled last night and the engine was reposted with a reserve this
time. I am hoping to look and hear at it Monday. Its a flying engine, but
250hrs since major back in 1990.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332011#332011
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jeff Boatright |
| From: | Earnest Bunbury <ebunburyesq(at)gmail.com> |
I'm still here! Thanks for asking. I got buried at work with a perfect storm
of grant and paper writing and lectures and new experiments and the dog ate
my homework and stuff. I've barely been able to fly the Piet since November.
Ah well, sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield.
Note that I'm posting from a gmail account these days. My univ account is
getting too full of "professional" cr@p and I was missing Piet list posts!
:).
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Anyone heard from Jeff lately? JEFF, are you out there? Everything OK?
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Listers:
I had a unique experience today that I thought I would relate to you.
About a week ago our local paper was having a slow news day so they did a
front page story about my Piet project in their series covering unusual
hobbies. The story was fluff and I am not going to bore you with that.
However on Monday a stranger by the name of Robert Bartell walked into my
office and said that he had seen my picture and the story about my
Pietenpol in the paper and just wanted to meet me and tell me his story.
It turns out that his grandfather, one Randy Penner, had an experience
with a Pietenpol back in the early 30's. Mr. Penner is a fairly well
renouned artist (now deceased) who has a published book entitled "Harvest
of Memories." Attached are two pages from the book containing the
Pietenpol story and a watercolor of the event by Mr. Penner.
Hillsboro is a small Kansas town with a current population of 2,904 -
probably more like 1,000 at the time of the story. Mr. Bartell's dad
remembers going out to the field with Mr. Penner to watch the big event.
Compared with watching the wheat grow this would have been a big crowd
pleaser back then. I just wish the story was a little more specific about
the date and the name of the aircraft owner. It would be a real hoot to
track that plane down and see if it would still be repairable.
Note that some liberties have already been taken with the Aircamper design
(Oh the Horror!) My eye was immediately drawn to the rounded shape of the
vertical stab and rudder. Also, split gear with motorcycle wheels (just
like mine) and a Model A engine. Guess he could not afford a Corvair.
(Just kidding, the Corvair would not be available until the 60's.) The
wing center section has maybe the hint of a flop showing.
Enjoy!
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Listers:
I had a unique experience today that I thought I would relate to you.
About a week ago our local paper was having a slow news day so they did a
front page story about my Piet project in their series covering unusual
hobbies. The story was fluff and I am not going to bore you with that.
However on Monday a stranger by the name of Robert Bartell walked into my
office and said that he had seen my picture and the story about my
Pietenpol in the paper and just wanted to meet me and tell me his story.
It turns out that his grandfather, one Randy Penner, had an experience
with a Pietenpol back in the early 30's. Mr. Penner is a fairly well
renouned artist (now deceased) who has a published book entitled "Harvest
of Memories." Attached are two pages from the book containing the
Pietenpol story and a watercolor of the event by Mr. Penner.
Hillsboro is a small Kansas town with a current population of 2,904 -
probably more like 1,000 at the time of the story. Mr. Bartell's dad
remembers going out to the field with Mr. Penner to watch the big event.
Compared with watching the wheat grow this would have been a big crowd
pleaser back then. I just wish the story was a little more specific about
the date and the name of the aircraft owner. It would be a real hoot to
track that plane down and see if it would still be repairable.
Note that some liberties have already been taken with the Aircamper design
(Oh the Horror!) My eye was immediately drawn to the rounded shape of the
vertical stab and rudder. Also, split gear with motorcycle wheels (just
like mine) and a Model A engine. Guess he could not afford a Corvair.
(Just kidding, the Corvair would not be available until the 60's.) The
wing center section has maybe the hint of a flop showing.
Enjoy!
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Out of the Blue |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
very nice.... thanks for posting....!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332046#332046
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Out of the Blue |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Great story Tom, the picture is beautiful, would like to frame a copy of
that.
rick
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:53 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Listers:*
> **
> *I had a unique experience today that I thought I would relate to you.
> About a week ago our local paper was having a slow news day so they did a
> front page story about my Piet project in their series covering unusual
> hobbies. The story was fluff and I am not going to bore you with that.
> However on Monday a stranger by the name of Robert Bartell walked into my
> office and said that he had seen my picture and the story about my Pietenpol
> in the paper and just wanted to meet me and tell me his story.*
> **
> *It turns out that his grandfather, one Randy Penner, had an experience
> with a Pietenpol back in the early 30's. Mr. Penner is a fairly well
> renouned artist* (*now deceased)* *who has a published book entitled
> "Harvest of Memories." Attached are **two pages from the book containing
> the Pietenpol story and a watercolor of the event by Mr. Penner.*
> **
> *Hillsboro is a small Kansas town with a current population of 2,904 -
> probably more like 1,000 at the time of the story. Mr. Bartell's dad
> remembers going out to the field with Mr. Penner to watch the big event.
> Compared with watching the wheat grow this would have been a big crowd
> pleaser back then. I just wish the story was a little more specific about
> the date and the name of the aircraft owner. It would be a real hoot to
> track that plane down and see if it would still be repairable.*
> **
> *Note that some liberties have already been taken with the Aircamper
> design (Oh the Horror!) My eye was immediately drawn to the rounded shape
> of the vertical stab and rudder. Also, split gear with motorcycle wheels
> (just like mine) and a Model A engine. Guess he could not afford a
> Corvair. (Just kidding, the Corvair would not be available until the 60's.)
> The wing center section has maybe the hint of a flop showing.*
> **
> *Enjoy!*
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Peek" <speeklaw(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | ferrules for .090 hard wire |
I'm looking for ferrules for .090 inch hard wire to use for the wing
internal cross wires. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Stan Peek
822 7th St. #330
Greeley, CO 80631
(970) 352-8611
stan(at)speeklaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | ferrules for .090 hard wire |
Stan,
Those acoustical paneled ceilings that you see in most office buildings?
Those are supported by 12 ga wire (about 0.080"). Let me know if that's what
you're looking for.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Peek
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ferrules for .090 hard wire
I'm looking for ferrules for .090 inch hard wire to use for the wing
internal cross wires. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Stan Peek
822 7th St. #330
Greeley, CO 80631
(970) 352-8611
stan(at)speeklaw.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Tom,
Bore us with the fluff! Do you have a link to the story?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Out of the Blue
Listers:
I had a unique experience today that I thought I would relate to you. About
a week ago our local paper was having a slow news day so they did a front
page story about my Piet project in their series covering unusual hobbies.
The story was fluff and I am not going to bore you with that. However on
Monday a stranger by the name of Robert Bartell walked into my office and
said that he had seen my picture and the story about my Pietenpol in the
paper and just wanted to meet me and tell me his story.
It turns out that his grandfather, one Randy Penner, had an experience with
a Pietenpol back in the early 30's. Mr. Penner is a fairly well renouned
artist (now deceased) who has a published book entitled "Harvest of
Memories." Attached are two pages from the book containing the Pietenpol
story and a watercolor of the event by Mr. Penner.
Hillsboro is a small Kansas town with a current population of 2,904 -
probably more like 1,000 at the time of the story. Mr. Bartell's dad
remembers going out to the field with Mr. Penner to watch the big event.
Compared with watching the wheat grow this would have been a big crowd
pleaser back then. I just wish the story was a little more specific about
the date and the name of the aircraft owner. It would be a real hoot to
track that plane down and see if it would still be repairable.
Note that some liberties have already been taken with the Aircamper design
(Oh the Horror!) My eye was immediately drawn to the rounded shape of the
vertical stab and rudder. Also, split gear with motorcycle wheels (just
like mine) and a Model A engine. Guess he could not afford a Corvair.
(Just kidding, the Corvair would not be available until the 60's.) The wing
center section has maybe the hint of a flop showing.
Enjoy!
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | I need some help please |
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Hello,
I need some help from you; I need an engine for the Piet I am building.
In the beginin I was thinking in a VW bla, bla, bla, but one day I found a website
named BARNSTORMERS and I find there a lot of engines like A65 at a very good
prices... but I don know how they are.
My idea is buy one there in USA (I live in Uruguay) and bring it it here (as an
sport airplane engine it do not pay taxes). But the problem is "see the engine"
or at least a comment from a therth about the state of it.
Supose I found an engine, can I ask you here for someone to see it if it is phisicaly
(location) possible, to have some comments about? pros, conts, yes no...
could it be? javascript:emoticon('[Wink]')
Thank you, and best regards.
Mario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332073#332073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I need some help please |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Mario,
I think the A-65 will be a much better choice than the VW. There are some great
A-65's out there BUT there is a lot of worn out/rusty junk out there too.
Be patient and watch Barnstormer's. Maybe someone on the LIST here will know of
a good one. I think the guys on the list would be very trustworthy. A really
great bunch of people hang out here. Any of the small Continental engines would
be a good choice. A-75, C-85, C-90 & O-200(100) horsepower.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332074#332074
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | I need some help please |
Mario,
Good to hear from you! I'm sure many Piet builder/owners would help with
that. I'm not sure of how practical that would be. You would be trusting
someone else's judgment as to the quality of the engine. You might consider
an AP/IA mechanic to build you an engine. That way you can be sure you have
a good engine. For a C65, C75 or C85 you can build one for less than a
Corvair conversion. I've been very happy with my engine that Tom Wottreng
built for me. Pictures here... http://textors.com/PietProject.html
Best to you!
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I need some help please
Hello,
I need some help from you; I need an engine for the Piet I am building.
In the beginin I was thinking in a VW bla, bla, bla, but one day I found a
website named BARNSTORMERS and I find there a lot of engines like A65 at a
very good prices... but I don know how they are.
My idea is buy one there in USA (I live in Uruguay) and bring it it here (as
an sport airplane engine it do not pay taxes). But the problem is "see the
engine" or at least a comment from a therth about the state of it.
Supose I found an engine, can I ask you here for someone to see it if it is
phisicaly (location) possible, to have some comments about? pros, conts, yes
no... could it be? javascript:emoticon('[Wink]')
Thank you, and best regards.
Mario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332073#332073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jack;
I use EZSniper for all of my eBay bidding, otherwise I
go with the 'Buy It Now'. EZSniper has been very
successful in winning the auctions that I bid on. Just
ask Gardiner Mason... he drove the truck that I won on
eBay a few weeks ago, using EZSniper ;o)
I guess what I'm saying is that there are good products
out there that don't hijack your personal info and that
do work well.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Out of the Blue |
Rick:
I don't know anything about copyright law but I think you would be safe if
you just made one for yourself and did not sell them. I scanned the photo
directly from Mr. Penner's book. I am going to try and get a copy of the
book myself as this is just one of several stories of life in the 20's and
30's - rural Kansas. I have attached a copy of the back of the book
containing the ISBN information should anybody be interested.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> Rick Holland 2/24/2011 6:21 PM >>>
Great story Tom, the picture is beautiful, would like to frame a copy of
that.
rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Ooo Jack. You are a glutton for punishment. Here is the link:
http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/features/x1349633460/Interesting-Interests
-Tom-Stinemetze
The link to the photo on the page appears to be broken so I have attached
a copy. This would help scare the mice and birds out of your shop.
Tom
>>> "Jack" 2/25/2011 4:06 AM >>>
Tom,
Bore us with the fluff! Do you have a link to the story?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Retracing Pietenpol |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
I am planning a trip back to my home country.
While websurfing for some locations to visit, I found this one;
http://www.ijsboerderijoldepietepol.nl/
History reads that this farm orginally was owned by the Pietenpol family an
d sold when leaving for America.
The current family owns it for 5 genaration now.
Odds are likely this was owned by Bernards Parent or grand Parents.
Currently operates as a dairy farm / creamery.
Hans
NX15KV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ferrules for .090 hard wire |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
To the best of my knowledge ferrules for hard wire are not available. Making your
own might be a problem because the furls consist of spiral wound hard wire
but have an oval interior not round. However, I bet some of the antique restoration
places have had make them when building Jennies or other old airplanes.
You could try one of these shops. If that does not work out, you can always do
what most people do, and that is substitute 1/8th inch cable for the hard wire.
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332093#332093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Tom,
Shame on you for not including the article earlier! Great story and
picture! You are making some good headway.
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
do
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Out of the Blue
Ooo Jack. You are a glutton for punishment. Here is the link:
http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/features/x1349633460/Interesting-Interests-
Tom-Stinemetze
The link to the photo on the page appears to be broken so I have attached a
copy. This would help scare the mice and birds out of your shop.
Tom
>>> "Jack" 2/25/2011 4:06 AM >>>
Tom,
Bore us with the fluff! Do you have a link to the story?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Tom,
Shame on you for not including the article earlier! Great story and
picture! You are making some good headway.
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
do
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Out of the Blue
Ooo Jack. You are a glutton for punishment. Here is the link:
http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/features/x1349633460/Interesting-Interests-
Tom-Stinemetze
The link to the photo on the page appears to be broken so I have attached a
copy. This would help scare the mice and birds out of your shop.
Tom
>>> "Jack" 2/25/2011 4:06 AM >>>
Tom,
Bore us with the fluff! Do you have a link to the story?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ferrules for .090 hard wire |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
Take the wire and on a lath make a long spring by forming it over a round mandrel.
Then cut to the length you need. To flatten or oval it, just use a vise to
squeeze it. Make sure you adjust the inside diameter before to allow for fitting
the two .09 wires in it before you flatten.
Any small machine shop could do this for you if you do not have a lath. If you
look at some back issues of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter, you can find an
article my Dad and I did on this very topic.
Good Luck!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332102#332102
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I need some help please |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello Mario,
Very nice photos. Looks like some nice high-quality work. Do you know Santi
ago Morete from Santa Rosa, Argentina? Moretesantiago(at)yahoo.ar, He was abl
e to attend Brodhead and Oshkosh '08, and we all got to meet him.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 25, 2011 5:14 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I need some help please
Hello,
I need some help from you; I need an engine for the Piet I am building.
n the beginin I was thinking in a VW bla, bla, bla, but one day I found a
ebsite named BARNSTORMERS and I find there a lot of engines like A65 at a v
ery
ood prices... but I don know how they are.
y idea is buy one there in USA (I live in Uruguay) and bring it it here (as
an
port airplane engine it do not pay taxes). But the problem is "see the engi
ne"
r at least a comment from a therth about the state of it.
upose I found an engine, can I ask you here for someone to see it if it is
hisicaly (location) possible, to have some comments about? pros, conts, yes
o... could it be? javascript:emoticon('[Wink]')
Thank you, and best regards.
Mario
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332073#332073
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | I need some help please |
Vic,
The pictures of Jack's project are great, but in person you would be blown away.
I had the pleasure to meet Jack and his wife last Saturday on a visit to Des
Moines. It turns out my step-daughter lives just around the corner from them. As
I' am just getting started it really got me excited to see his project and the
quality of his craftsmanship. If only this weather would straighten up so I
could get in the shop!
Thanks again Jack for the Piet visit and the great advise.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
Starting with the ribs soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Florida Flying/Sun-N-Fun |
Its hard to believe that its time for my first annual condition
inspection. Took the Piet up for 1/2 hour just to warm up the oil, and
was comfortable wearing a t-shirt and shorts! I'm planning to have the
Piet over at Sun-N Fun for the whole week. Anyone else flying in?
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I need some help please |
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Jack, thanks me, I am presenting you your neighbors ;0)
And Dan, about Morete yes I exchange some mails with him; here in Uruguay there
is an other constructor (or future constructor) who told me he thought to build
a Piet, he went with his son to Brodhead in 09.. and when he saw them, so perfects,
and very laborious works, he change his wishes for something easier (Legal
Eagle).
At home (country) ther is just only one homebuild aircraft, a Mini Max, build it
by Pepe Ifran.. I have to go to talk with him, but he lives far away from home/job
place... some day
Se you on monday, regards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332150#332150
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | firewall insulating barrier |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I'm approaching a point where I'll need to install a firewall. I'm
wondering if there is any consensus on the need/desirability of
installing a heat resistant barrier (e.g., fiberfrax) between the
plywood and the stainless or galvanized sheet metal firewall.
Those of you further along or with flying Piets, what have you done?
Thanks, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: firewall insulating barrier |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ken
>From what I have read that the fiberfrax is not necessary if using stainless
on the firewall (but doesn't hurt). I just used the .016 stainless. I have a
firewall size piece of fiberfrax if you need some.
rick
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Kenneth Bickers wrote:
> bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
>
> I'm approaching a point where I'll need to install a firewall. I'm
> wondering if there is any consensus on the need/desirability of
> installing a heat resistant barrier (e.g., fiberfrax) between the
> plywood and the stainless or galvanized sheet metal firewall.
> Those of you further along or with flying Piets, what have you done?
>
> Thanks, Ken
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder bar and forward controls |
Any issues with using standard cold rolled-tubing for use on the Rudder b
ar and forward foot controls?-I need to know if structural tubing is the
choice over standard tubing; if so why?-Also, are any of you reinforcing
the floor under the rudder bar mount as I find it somewhat flexible.
-
-
KMHeide
Hawley, MN=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall insulating barrier |
Rick:
I would be interested in the Fiberfrax. Contact me offline.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, In
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: 2/26/2011 3:49:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: firewall insulating barrier
Ken
>From what I have read that the fiberfrax is not necessary if using stainless on
the firewall (but doesn't hurt). I just used the .016 stainless. I have a firewall
size piece of fiberfrax if you need some.
rick
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Kenneth Bickers wrote:
I'm approaching a point where I'll need to install a firewall. I'm
wondering if there is any consensus on the need/desirability of
installing a heat resistant barrier (e.g., fiberfrax) between the
plywood and the stainless or galvanized sheet metal firewall.
Those of you further along or with flying Piets, what have you done?
Thanks, Ken
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
This year at Sun n Fun in the Wood Shop we are going to build a
Pietenpol Fuselage and tail section. We are then going to donate what
we build to Brodhead airport to be auctioned or sold at the Pietenpol
reunion this summer, for the concrete floor at the new visitors center.
Dave Aldrich is going to contribute the wood and I am working on Wicks
to contribute te plywood. What we still need are steel fittings, (
bell crank, torque tube, tail brackets and rudder assy bar also the wing
fittings). Is there anyone out there that can make a set for us? If
you can, please contact me off list? I know this is short notice and we
cant pay for them but I appreciate what ever you all can do. Of couse
if you can contribute anything else we can use anything (engine mount,
wing struts, fuel tank, tail wheel or? ) I"m sure there a lot of
things around the hangar floor you've been meaning to sell or use
someplace that would be perfect for our plane.
Dick N
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Have you installed the cross-member that runs from the rear ash piece to the
top of the rudder bar? Mine felt wobbly until I added that, no need to
reinforce the 1/4" floor.
rick
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:39 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP wrote:
>
> *
> *
> **Any issues with using standard cold rolled tubing for use on the Rudder
> bar and forward foot controls? I need to know if structural tubing is the
> choice over standard tubing; if so why? Also, are any of you reinforcing the
> floor under the rudder bar mount as I find it somewhat flexible.
>
>
> KMHeide
> Hawley, MN
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Dick=2C I have a Model A engine mount and radiator mount that came off of J
ack McCarthy's Piet when he converted. I would be happy to donate these to
the cause.
Gene Rambo
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HELP
Date: Sat=2C 26 Feb 2011 19:25:01 -0600
This year at Sun n Fun in the Wood Shop we are going to build a Pietenpol F
uselage and tail section. We are then going to donate what we build to Bro
dhead airport to be auctioned or sold at the Pietenpol reunion this summer
=2C for the concrete floor at the new visitors center. Dave Aldrich is goi
ng to contribute the wood and I am working on Wicks to contribute te plywoo
d. What we still need are steel fittings=2C ( bell crank=2C torque tube
=2C tail brackets and rudder assy bar also the wing fittings). Is there an
yone out there that can make a set for us? If you can=2C please contact me
off list? I know this is short notice and we cant pay for them but I appr
eciate what ever you all can do. Of couse if you can contribute anything e
lse we can use anything (engine mount=2C wing struts=2C fuel tank=2C tail w
heel or? ) I"m sure there a lot of things around the hangar floor you've
been meaning to sell or use someplace that would be perfect for our plane.
Dick N
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thats great Gene. For that, are you going to SNF or I can also pick up.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: HELP
Dick, I have a Model A engine mount and radiator mount that came off
of Jack McCarthy's Piet when he converted. I would be happy to donate
these to the cause.
Gene Rambo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HELP
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:25:01 -0600
This year at Sun n Fun in the Wood Shop we are going to build a
Pietenpol Fuselage and tail section. We are then going to donate what
we build to Brodhead airport to be auctioned or sold at the Pietenpol
reunion this summer, for the concrete floor at the new visitors center.
Dave Aldrich is going to contribute the wood and I am working on Wicks
to contribute te plywood. What we still need are steel fittings, (
bell crank, torque tube, tail brackets and rudder assy bar also the wing
fittings). Is there anyone out there that can make a set for us? If
you can, please contact me off list? I know this is short notice and we
cant pay for them but I appreciate what ever you all can do. Of couse
if you can contribute anything else we can use anything (engine mount,
wing struts, fuel tank, tail wheel or? ) I"m sure there a lot of
things around the hangar floor you've been meaning to sell or use
someplace that would be perfect for our plane.
Dick N
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Standard tubing is what I used. (.035" wall SS)
Agreed... once the top support is in...no wobble.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Rick Holland wrote:
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar and forward controls
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 9:32 PM
> Have you installed the cross-member that
> runs from the rear ash piece to the top of the rudder bar?
> Mine felt wobbly until I added that, no need to reinforce
> the 1/4" floor.
>
> rick
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:39 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Any issues
> with using standard cold rolledtubing for use on the
> Rudder bar and forward foot controls?I need to know if
> structural tubing is the choice over standard tubing; if so
> why?Also, are any of you reinforcing the floor under the
> rudder bar mount as I find it somewhat flexible.
>
>
>
>
> KMHeide
> Hawley,
> MN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little
> Minds"
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I have a motormount for a Corvair that I built before I decided to use a
Continental. I'm sure I'll never use it, so if you think it would help
I can bring it.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 2/26/2011 8:25 PM, Dick N wrote:
> This year at Sun n Fun in the Wood Shop we are going to build a
> Pietenpol Fuselage and tail section. We are then going to donate what
> we build to Brodhead airport to be auctioned or sold at the Pietenpol
> reunion this summer, for the concrete floor at the new visitors
> center. Dave Aldrich is going to contribute the wood and I am working
> on Wicks to contribute te plywood. What we still need are steel
> fittings, ( bell crank, torque tube, tail brackets and rudder assy
> bar also the wing fittings). Is there anyone out there that can make
> a set for us? If you can, please contact me off list? I know this is
> short notice and we cant pay for them but I appreciate what ever you
> all can do. Of couse if you can contribute anything else we can use
> anything (engine mount, wing struts, fuel tank, tail wheel or? ) I"m
> sure there a lot of things around the hangar floor you've been meaning
> to sell or use someplace that would be perfect for our plane.
> Dick N
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | firewall insulating barrier |
I put fiberfrax on mine. You don't really need it, if you don't need the
firewall. If the engine catches fire, the more insulation the better.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Bickers
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: firewall insulating barrier
I'm approaching a point where I'll need to install a firewall. I'm
wondering if there is any consensus on the need/desirability of
installing a heat resistant barrier (e.g., fiberfrax) between the
plywood and the stainless or galvanized sheet metal firewall.
Those of you further along or with flying Piets, what have you done?
Thanks, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey Ben
That would be great. I don't know what kind of engine we are going to
use. If you don't mind, we could also sell it at Brodhead if we don't
use it. You can find me at the Wood workshop all week.\
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HELP
I have a motormount for a Corvair that I built before I decided to use
a Continental. I'm sure I'll never use it, so if you think it would
help I can bring it.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 2/26/2011 8:25 PM, Dick N wrote:
This year at Sun n Fun in the Wood Shop we are going to build a
Pietenpol Fuselage and tail section. We are then going to donate what
we build to Brodhead airport to be auctioned or sold at the Pietenpol
reunion this summer, for the concrete floor at the new visitors center.
Dave Aldrich is going to contribute the wood and I am working on Wicks
to contribute te plywood. What we still need are steel fittings, (
bell crank, torque tube, tail brackets and rudder assy bar also the wing
fittings). Is there anyone out there that can make a set for us? If
you can, please contact me off list? I know this is short notice and we
cant pay for them but I appreciate what ever you all can do. Of couse
if you can contribute anything else we can use anything (engine mount,
wing struts, fuel tank, tail wheel or? ) I"m sure there a lot of
things around the hangar floor you've been meaning to sell or use
someplace that would be perfect for our plane.
Dick N
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Pieters,
I have been working diligently (and slowly) on rebuilding my "A" since the
mishap last Sept. when my timing gear disintegrated. I decided to continue
to use my 8-plug head, powered by one crank-driven mag, and a hybrid electr
onic ignition/battery ignition system. I bought a 4.4 lb. battery from ACS,
which will energize the coil (looks like standard Model A coil) via a smal
l electronic ignition module. I am imagining a small solar panel mounted on
the fuel tank cover, to charge the battery.
OK let the flames begin. (it's OK because I used Fiberfrax) And no smart as
s remarks like "What would Bernerd say, Dan?"
Dan Helsper
Puryear TN., (until tomorrow only)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know what the output of a solar panel that size would be but I'd be surprised
if it was enough to keep the battery up in-flight with steady ignition
draw. seems like a small generator driven by a small prop in the slipstream would
be a lot cooler looking.but of course heavier.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332232#332232
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I like this. Think of the possibilities of having the small prop on
the belly.
You can tell people it is a pre-WWII JATO.
Or that you are getting your twin rating in the Piet.
Or that with the radiator on the top, you needed a way to keep the
bottom of the engine cool.
Or that, though you have to make several passes, you use it to cut
your own strip for off-airport landings.
I'm sure others can come up with other possibilities.
Cheers, Ken
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
>
> I don't know what the output of a solar panel that size would be but I'd be surprised
if it was enough to keep the battery up in-flight with steady ignition
draw. seems like a small generator driven by a small prop in the slipstream
would be a lot cooler looking.but of course heavier.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332232#332232
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
I like it...anything out of the norm. works for me.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
Dan =93 No flames here! Us auto-engine converters have to stick
together!
A good weekend, here, too. Got all my spars shaped and rough sanded.
Also resolved a long-time headache: How to reduce from a 3/8=9D
fuel line to 1/8=9D primer line? Simple answer: Take a block of
aluminum and make a =98manifold=99....3/8=9D
in...1/8=9D out.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow list day.........How about this idea?
Hi Pieters,
I have been working diligently (and slowly) on rebuilding my "A" since
the mishap last Sept. when my timing gear disintegrated. I decided to
continue to use my 8-plug head, powered by one crank-driven mag, and a
hybrid electronic ignition/battery ignition system. I bought a 4.4 lb.
battery from ACS, which will energize the coil (looks like standard
Model A coil) via a small electronic ignition module. I am imagining a
small solar panel mounted on the fuel tank cover, to charge the battery.
OK let the flames begin. (it's OK because I used Fiberfrax) And no smart
ass remarks like "What would Bernerd say, Dan?"
Dan Helsper
Puryear TN., (until tomorrow only)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fabric-Tape Thickness |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
I could use that thickness info as well....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332254#332254
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Centerburg OH, Piet Fly-In |
Hello Guys, just letting everyone know that I plan on hosting another Piete
npol Fly-in on June 17, 18 (Fri and Sat.) at Chapman Memorial OH71-again
this year weather permitting.- If you want to fly- in on friday and cam
p your welcome to.- And for all you guys (Jack Phillips) with those alumi
num go-faster's, you welcome to drop in as well.- I will supply the hotdo
gs, and drinks, if you can carry a covered dish etc bring one, there will b
e a donation jar to help cover expenses like port-o-potty etc.- Last year
was a little lean on airplanes due to weather, but not on fun.- We had 3
or 4 people drive in who are building pietenpols, and Skipp, and Ed flew t
heir piets up from WV.- So if you think you might be interested let me kn
ow, I will start a roster to make sure no one goes hungry.-
-
Shad
-
p.s. With all the rain we got today, you might need some floats to get in h
ere!
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Last WWI US Vet has passed |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/27/wwi.veteran.death/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Centerburg OH, Piet Fly-In |
Ah, the fly-in season is getting started. In anticipation of this we just
held "Brodhead South" this past weekend. No flying, just friends,
fellowship and flatulence. Ryan Mueller, John Hofmann, Bill Church, Gene
Rambo, Rob Busch and Mike Cuy invaded my home in North Carolina. By
Saturday morning my wife had had enough and we were forced to adjourn to my
hangar at Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia. At least there we could look at my
Pietenpol, but it was just a bit too cold to fly it (temps were only in the
upper 50's). However we did eat the requisite meal of bratwursts (thanks to
John shipping sausages down from Wisconsin) around the Pietenpol, and made
plans for Brodhead 2011.
A good time was had by all.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Centerburg OH, Piet Fly-In
Hello Guys, just letting everyone know that I plan on hosting another
Pietenpol Fly-in on June 17, 18 (Fri and Sat.) at Chapman Memorial OH71
again this year weather permitting. If you want to fly in on friday and
camp your welcome to. And for all you guys (Jack Phillips) with those
aluminum go-faster's, you welcome to drop in as well. I will supply the
hotdogs, and drinks, if you can carry a covered dish etc bring one, there
will be a donation jar to help cover expenses like port-o-potty etc. Last
year was a little lean on airplanes due to weather, but not on fun. We had
3 or 4 people drive in who are building pietenpols, and Skipp, and Ed flew
their piets up from WV. So if you think you might be interested let me
know, I will start a roster to make sure no one goes hungry.
Shad
p.s. With all the rain we got today, you might need some floats to get in
here!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Tisk, Tisk.
What would Bernard say!!???
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Hey Dan ... do you have the FSI ignition parts in there ??
they say it will work on 6-16 volts.. i can't imagine the current draw being very
high myself but i see this as a good backup...
Maybe a good primary ignition with more of a power source.. wind or engine generator..
i noticed the spark advance is wired in place...i can see another lever in the
cockpit.... folks today don't get it
i leave the keys in my 30 AA all the time.. only old guys know how to start it...fuel
on... retard spark...open throttle..choke..step on the right button...fun
to drive but you gotta know how
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332299#332299
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aa_195.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Jim Markle/Others Help |
Jim, I see you welded aluminum plates on to your aluminum wing struts where they
attach to the fuselage. This is the same idea I was thinking of using. I assume
you welded a plate to both top and bottom of the strut? It looks to be about
1/4" think, is this correct? How do you like/are you happy with the struts
welded this way? My attach fitting will only allow for a single bolt where as
you used two, any issues with a single 5/16" or 3/8" bolt?
Anyone else have ideas/opinions?
Thank for your help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Jim Markle/Others Help Clarification |
You can ignore my single bolt comment. After looking again at Jim's pictures on
West Coast Piet., I see he used steel straps inside the strut. Still, curious
to the aluminum welded plates though.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Got my wingtips on and ailerons cut out in the last day or so...
glued some 1/8 ply to the inboard side of the ailerons...
nothing in the F & G manual about what to do there... may add capstrip to the inside
of the ply..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332320#332320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tip_114.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member |
Members:
Seeking a Dallas, Texas area pietenpol member for assistance. please respond to
my email or send me a number I can reach you at.
KMHeide
Hawley, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Cap strip and plywood is what I did.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
One quick comment to Michael regarding the rudder bar.
You write that you used "standard tubing - .035" wall SS".
Just be aware that stainless steel tubing typically has only half the Yield Strength
of 4130 - and in this case, the plans specifically mention to use chro-moly
tubing for the rudder bar.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332335#332335
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 4 foot center section |
So here's my version of a 4 foot center section. This should allow for a l
ot more fuel to burn once my Corvair crankshaft snaps. I haven't figured o
ut the actual volume yet - the design is kinda evolving. I had some ideas
about it that as I put them together=2C "it was revealed" that my ideas wer
e not going to work. I have quite a bit more work to do=2C but I thought I
'd share a couple pics as this stage.
I just realized that if my plans fall together (financial plans) by mid sum
mer=2C I should have all the major airframe and engine components to put th
is aircraft together. If you notice though=2C I didn't mention which summe
r : ) Should be ordering my spars soon - the stuff I got from McKormicks
just didn't pan out like I thought so I'll use the wood elsewhere. If you
think about it=2C for spar material (the stuff that really counts) Aircraft
spruce price isn't really that expensive - even if you include the shippin
g. They estimated $130 shipping to Minneapolis area - hope that's close.
That should leave me with about $400 or so worth in spar material (4 pieces
at 12'-6" each). Put those together and that's about hoe much wood I've g
ot into this thing in the fuse=2C tail=2C ply etc. - maybe a little more bu
t not much. Thought about going to Youngblood lumber and getting some fir
for spars but I just don't feel like taking another risk since my last one
didn't turn out. Really=2C I got enough for (2) spars which is what I plan
ned - the pieces are just not as "perfect" as I'd like. This isn't a slam
on Mckormicks at all - It's just once I got the boards home and planed=2C i
t uncovered some stuff I wansn't happy with. I could make it work but I'd
rather just have the peace of mind of having those critical members be cert
ified materials. Call me paranoid I guess.
Anyway=2C if anyone is interested in following the 4 foot center constructi
on let me know. I can keep posting pics and progress reports. I intend to
support it with laminated spruce / ply / spruce cabanes which I just lamin
ated not too long ago.
Later=2C
Tom B.
-Fuse framed
-End spinach framed
-wing ribs completed
-working on wing=2C center section and struts
=0A
4 foot center section=0A
http://cid-49bf7cf4860ada21.skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?page=browse&resi
d=49BF7CF4860ADA21!149&type=5&Bpub=SDX.Photos&Bsrc=Photomail&authke
y=E7ex1FbU7rA%24=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Jeff,
I hope you are right about the current draw. Maybe if it proves to discharg
e during flight, I can use it as a back-up like you said, only for T-off an
d landing, or other mag failure. Yes the spark advance is wired in place. I
already have the Slick mag with the impulse for starting purposes. Bernard
didn't used this set-up (or maybe, I better check the "lost" BHP Papers to
make sure) but at least it is unique and might be a topic of curiosity at
Brodhead.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL. (I'm back)
PS Boy wouldn't that be something if I get better performance than the mag?
.....nawwww
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:57 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea?
>
Hey Dan ... do you have the FSI ignition parts in there ??
hey say it will work on 6-16 volts.. i can't imagine the current draw being
ery high myself but i see this as a good backup...
aybe a good primary ignition with more of a power source.. wind or engine
enerator..
noticed the spark advance is wired in place...i can see another lever in t
he
ockpit.... folks today don't get it
leave the keys in my 30 AA all the time.. only old guys know how to start
t...fuel on... retard spark...open throttle..choke..step on the right
utton...fun to drive but you gotta know how
jeff
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332299#332299
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aa_195.jpg
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
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-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last WWI US Vet has passed |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Charles,
It is not widely known, But GHW Bush was NOT the youngest WWII naval aviato
r. It is in fact my neighbor (still going strong) Capt. Chuck Downey of Pop
lar Grove, IL. http://www.meyersaircraftowners.org/index.php?option=com_c
ontent&view=article&id=16%3Aa-toast-to-capt-chuck-s-downey&catid=10%3
Ahistorical-information&Itemid=12&showall=1
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I know Bill. I am pretty sure the bar can handle the rudder stresses.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Mon, 2/28/11, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 6:59 PM
>
One quick comment to Michael regarding the rudder bar.
You write that you used "standard tubing - .035" wall SS".
Just be aware that stainless steel tubing typically has only half the Yield
Strength of 4130 - and in this case, the plans specifically mention to use
chro-moly tubing for the rudder bar.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332335#332335
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Last WWI US Vet has passed |
Yeah, someone else told me about Mr. Downey. Hadn't heard of him
before. Nice writeup even though there are some mistakes. Oh well,
maybe his memory is getting a little fuzzy -- like mine!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 6:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Last WWI US Vet has passed
Charles,
It is not widely known, But GHW Bush was NOT the youngest WWII naval
aviator. It is in fact my neighbor (still going strong) Capt. Chuck
Downey of Poplar Grove, IL.
http://www.meyersaircraftowners.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=
article&id=16%3Aa-toast-to-capt-chuck-s-downey&catid=10%3Ahistorical-
information&Itemid=12&showall=1
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Actually, the stresses induced on the rudder bar from the rudder are almost inconsequential.
Since the ends of the rudder bar are only connected to the rudder
by means of cables (if built to the plans), then only one end of the rudder
bar (the end that is pulling on the rudder) can be loaded at a time (you can't
push a rope).
What you need to be aware of is the potential for the pilot to bend the rudder
bar, by inadvertently pushing with both feet. The pilot will undoubtedly have
both feet pressing against the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of uncoordinated
footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of pushing on both sides
of the rudder bar at the same time.
Probably what you should do is take a scrap piece of the tubing you're using, the
same length as the rudder bar, and duplicate the center pivot arrangement,
and secure this bar to something solid. Then position yourself in a well secured
seat located at the proper distance from the rudder bar, and see how difficult
it is to bend the sample rudder bar. You may be surprised how little force
it takes to bend the tube.
There are very few metal parts in the plans that actually call for cro-moly steel,
but the rudder bar is one. Methinks it is specified that way for a reason.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332385#332385
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
You know, "what would Bernard say" always comes up.
He used the materials and methods commonly available to him... converted 2 different
auto engines when they were relatively new to the market...
He was an innovator. I don't think he would exactly be one to frown on innovation...
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332389#332389
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I understand Bill and I appreciate your input.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 12:47 PM
>
Actually, the stresses induced on the rudder bar from the rudder are almost
inconsequential. Since the ends of the rudder bar are only connected to th
e rudder by means of cables (if built to the plans), then only one end of t
he rudder bar (the end that is pulling on the rudder) can be loaded at a ti
me (you can't push a rope).
What you need to be aware of is the potential for the pilot to bend the rud
der bar, by inadvertently pushing with both feet. The pilot will undoubtedl
y have both feet pressing against the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of
uncoordinated footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of push
ing on both sides of the rudder bar at the same time.
Probably what you should do is take a scrap piece of the tubing you're usin
g, the same length as the rudder bar, and duplicate the center pivot arrang
ement, and secure this bar to something solid. Then position yourself in a
well secured seat located at the proper distance from the rudder bar, and s
ee how difficult it is to bend the sample rudder bar. You may be surprised
how little force it takes to bend the tube.
There are very few metal parts in the plans that actually call for cro-moly
steel, but the rudder bar is one. Methinks it is specified that way for a
reason.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332385#332385
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
What KIND of assistance? I don't have a Piet...
I'm in Fort Worth (think of it as one big mess all blurred together, Dallas and
Fort Worth and... oh... a dozen plus smaller cities.
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332390#332390
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
This is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use
the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated control
device on the entire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight a
nd on the ground.
Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive force
on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply during t
ight
turns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very gusty land
ing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop.
The proper way to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constan
tly apply pressure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both fee
t
rather than push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an
manual transmission car.
I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of white ash or some
other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny had) rather
than make it out of stainless tubing.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.g
ov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 1:33 PM
This is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use
the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated controldevice on the en
tire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight and on the ground
. -Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive
force on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply du
ring tightturns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very
gusty landing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop. -The proper wa
y to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constantly apply pre
ssure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both feetrather than
push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an manual tran
smission car. -I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of
white ash or some other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny
had) ratherthan make it out of stainless tubing.--- -Mike C. -
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Ditto to what Bill said but make sure to excite your adrenal glands whilst testing!
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 17:47:45
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Actually, the stresses induced on the rudder bar from the rudder are almost inconsequential.
Since the ends of the rudder bar are only connected to the rudder
by means of cables (if built to the plans), then only one end of the rudder
bar (the end that is pulling on the rudder) can be loaded at a time (you can't
push a rope).
What you need to be aware of is the potential for the pilot to bend the rudder
bar, by inadvertently pushing with both feet. The pilot will undoubtedly have
both feet pressing against the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of uncoordinated
footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of pushing on both sides
of the rudder bar at the same time.
Probably what you should do is take a scrap piece of the tubing you're using, the
same length as the rudder bar, and duplicate the center pivot arrangement,
and secure this bar to something solid. Then position yourself in a well secured
seat located at the proper distance from the rudder bar, and see how difficult
it is to bend the sample rudder bar. You may be surprised how little force
it takes to bend the tube.
There are very few metal parts in the plans that actually call for cro-moly steel,
but the rudder bar is one. Methinks it is specified that way for a reason.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332385#332385
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oscar penned the Firewall Forward of the latest Sport |
Av
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Forwarded from the CorvAircraft list....
Oscar does a nice write-up of an overview of the small Continentals.
Good job Oscar!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pat Panzera <editor.contactmagazine(at)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Subject: CorvAircraft> Oscar Zuniga
Squirrel Net
The "Firewall Forward" section of the newest Sport Aviation was authored by
our very own Oscar Zuniga.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201103#pg104
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Michael, do you intend to carry passengers in your plane when it's done? While
YOU might be comfortable with your rudder bar setup, how comfortable will your
screaming passenger be when your rudder bar fails in flight (or while landing/taxiing)
and you have no rudder control? Is this something that you REALLY
want to cut corners on? But, it is your plane and you may build it as you see
fit... personally, I'll be adhering strictly to what's called out on the plans
for critical control assemblies such as this. Just my $.02
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332407#332407
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I appreciate the concerns, but I question what exactly will go wrong with S.S.?
Am I being told that some person may get in the plane and bend the bar in a double
footed panic? I do not understand what will work harden...the length of
sleeve through the bar where is comes in contact with the bolt? (Greased) Maybe
the flat ends of the bar where it comes in contact with the clevis pins? (Double
wall thickness here) As noted by one reader, the rudder stress on the bar
is relatively small, so how much force will be on those clevis pins? ( I am not
saying that is true, it is just what someone said earlier.)Maybe the area where
the sleeve through the bar rides on top of the "A" frame support? (Washer)
How much movement/stress needs to be applied to even start the work hardening
process?
No one need get in the plane that does not want to...nor whom is not invited.
I'm keeping the bar, anyone who wants to debate it further, feel free to contact
me off list...no need taking up space and cluttering up everyones email boxes.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Billy McCaskill wrote:
> From: Billy McCaskill <billmz(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 3:49 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Billy McCaskill"
>
> Michael, do you intend to carry passengers in your plane
> when it's done? While YOU might be comfortable with
> your rudder bar setup, how comfortable will your screaming
> passenger be when your rudder bar fails in flight (or while
> landing/taxiing) and you have no rudder control? Is
> this something that you REALLY want to cut corners on?
> But, it is your plane and you may build it as you see
> fit... personally, I'll be adhering strictly to what's
> called out on the plans for critical control assemblies such
> as this. Just my $.02
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332407#332407
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I think Billy made a great point in addition to Bill Church is that you're cheaping
out on something
that is a critical flight control that 'may' work fine for years and years but
then again may not.
Remember Mike....my spreader bars were made of stainless and last summer the one
ear of my front rudder
bar snapped off and dragged under the airplane after landing at a nearby fly-in.
Scary ? You bet but thankfully there are TWO spreader bars and the other one held
up to get me home safely.
In the Pietenpol you only have one rudder bar so you're probably right---it will
be fine and I'm glad you
are confident that it will be okay but in the grand scheme of things it isn't worth
taking a chance when for
a few bucks you could have aircraft grade 4130 in there.
I'd hate to be turning base to final with my wife or loved one in the front seat
and have something like my
rudder control fail 80 feet over the tall trees with no chance of recovery and
a nice tank of fuel ready to split
and catch fire as it flows over those hot exhaust pipes....
I guess that's why we are required to display a placard in full view of the passenger
which says that "this airplane
is amateur built and does not comply with the same standards that factory built
airplanes are required to comply with."
(paraphrased)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........Bernerd, and his ideas |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I think some of the reason many of us choose this design, is a longing for
simpler times, and the ability to maybe travel back in history and stay the
re for a few precious moments. We fantasize about how it must have been, an
d (mistaking) use the "green grass" theory to imagine that it was a better
place. We define in our minds the things that were going on, to a definite
day or year, and don't want to inconvenience ourselves to recognize that ti
me never stands still............ Please leave me alone in my fantasies!!!
I want to stay here!!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:20 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea?
You know, "what would Bernard say" always comes up.
He used the materials and methods commonly available to him... converted 2
ifferent auto engines when they were relatively new to the market...
He was an innovator. I don't think he would exactly be one to frown on
nnovation...
--------
rad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast
.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332389#332389
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........Bernerd, and his ideas |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Until you have a "Viagra Moment" and then realize maybe some of that
new-fangled technology taint so bad after all.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 3:31 PM, wrote:
> I think some of the reason many of us choose this design, is a longing for
> simpler times, and the ability to maybe travel back in history and stay
> there for a few precious moments. We fantasize about how it must have been,
> and (mistaking) use the "green grass" theory to imagine that it was a better
> place. We define in our minds the things that were going on, to a definite
> day or year, and don't want to inconvenience ourselves to recognize that
> time never stands still............ Please leave me alone in my fantasies!!!
> I want to stay here!!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 12:20 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea?
>
>
> You know, "what would Bernard say" always comes up.
>
> He used the materials and methods commonly available to him... converted 2
> different auto engines when they were relatively new to the market...
>
> He was an innovator. I don't think he would exactly be one to frown on
> innovation...
>
> --------
> Brad "DOMIT" Smith
>
> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332389#332389
>
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | Earnest Bunbury <ebunburyesq(at)gmail.com> |
I don't know the answer, but there are few things that occur to me. A points
ignition system will draw about 3 amps/hour (I don't know what your
electronic module draws). A 12V battery that weighs 4-5 lbs (as per your
example) is probably good for 3-4 amp hours (Ah), so with no charging system
you probably have about an hour of flight time available through that
ignition system. A 5 watt solar battery charger (it's the larger one, about
12"x12", not the skinny one you put on your car dashboard) is going to put
out about 0.3 amps in direct sunlight, max. In theory, if you had ten of
those on your wing or top of fuselage, etc., then maybe it would be enough
juice to keep you flying on your secondary ignition. They do sell flexible
skin solar panels now, so this may not be too crazy...if you have the money.
Another solution, though, is to treat your electronic module truly as a
secondary ignition system, only to be used if your primary ignition failed.
In that case, you'd have about an hour of flying available just running on
your little battery. If that's too short, return the battery to ACS and buy
a 12V 8 Ah battery (available all over the place) that weigh a little over 8
lbs. Now you should have well over 2 h of flying available to get down
safely somewhere. Heck, I can't remember the last time I flew my Piet more
than 2 h in one flight. To keep the battery charged while your not flying,
just use one of those 5W chargers. I use one for the Piet's battery and it
easily keeps it topped up.
HTH,
Jeff
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 6:08 PM, wrote:
> Hi Pieters,
>
> I have been working diligently (and slowly) on rebuilding my "A" since the
> mishap last Sept. when my timing gear disintegrated. I decided to continue
> to use my 8-plug head, powered by one crank-driven mag, and a hybrid
> electronic ignition/battery ignition system. I bought a 4.4 lb. battery from
> ACS, which will energize the coil (looks like standard Model A coil) via a
> small electronic ignition module. I am imagining a small solar panel mounted
> on the fuel tank cover, to charge the battery.
>
> OK let the flames begin. (it's OK because I used Fiberfrax) And no smart
> ass remarks like "What would Bernerd say, Dan?"
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear TN., (until tomorrow only)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
..." 'may' work fine for- years and years but then again may not." That i
s true for any part of any plane...your spreader bar as an example.
-
Comparing spreader bars to rudder bars is not a good comparison. Spreader b
ars are under stress all the time...pushing back on the- tension from the
-four 1/8" L.G. cables. The rudder bar is only under stress while someone
is in the pilot seat.- How about those forces? Four 1/8" cables trying t
o compress the spreader bars, (how tight are those?)compared to...I don't k
now... two heavy feet-on the rudder bar? Then there are the forces on the
spreaders when actually making a landing...and I would venture a guess, a
few HARD landings. I just don't see a comparison here. Different regions of
the plane, way different forces.
-
You used SS tube. You smashed the ends flat. (Induced stress, maybe cold wo
rked as well.) Then you bent those smashed ends. ( More stress) Curious...Y
ou know when you smash the ends, those really, really tight bends that allo
w the two sides of the tube to come together, aren't those bends-IN LINE
with the grain? At some point, you put a 1/4" hole in that smashed, bent en
d as well and yet got 13 years out of it!- What did you replace your spre
ader bars with? I believe you said you used- a heavier wall S.S. tube...y
es? I believe you also said that if you have to replace them every 13 years
or so, that's cool.
-
Your story about the broken bar, loved one in the plane, tall trees, fuel,
hot exhaust, etc. is entertaining but nothing more then a "what if."--
Your spreader bar COULD have let go at altitude, smashing through the winds
hield of a school bus full of kids on the high way, killing the driver, the
bus crosses over to in on-coming traffic, smashing another school bus head
on, killing everyone in both buses, plus the surrounding vehicles that cou
ld not get out of the way in time. Then as you make an unexpected hard land
ing, your gear folds on one side, the wing tip drags... then starts the car
twheel... you get my drift.
-
I believe that the 3/16" clevis pins are NOT going to pull through the smas
hed ends of the now- .065" wall stainless. I would also bet that there wo
n't be enough stress to have that 5/16" bolt at the pivot pull through the
entire length of the sleeve and .035" wall tube. (3/4" tube) I guess it is
possible that the bar could bend if I were to freak out and press to hard o
n both ends.- I guess that is something to be aware of...no more then bei
ng aware to make sure the fuel cap is on right.
-
"...cheaping out"... Saving a few bucks is not the point. Not sure why ever
y time a change is made people assume it is money related.-
-
You are correct about the placard...that says it all.
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hoo-boy, what a response.
Michael (as opposed to Mike), your argument is way off base. The spreader bars
are NOT under a great deal of stress. The cross brace cables should only have
enough tension in them to take up the slack. And in the straight axle gear, the
axle essentially floats above the gear, attached by bungees. The point is that
the straight axle doesn't impose side loads like the split gear would, therefore,
even in a rough landing, there will not be extreme forces transmitted to
the spreader bars. Nonetheless, as Mike related, his stainless steel spreaders
did fail. The rudder bar, however CAN and WILL be exposed to considerable forces
exerted by the pilot. Have you ever had to stop a vehicle suddenly, and
find yourself pressing the brake pedal with all your strength? Pressing the pedal
harder after the brakes have locked will do no good, yet that is what we do,
as humans. In a moment of panic, the rudder bar will very likely be exposed
to forces far greater than it should see under "normal" conditions. There are
some metal parts on the Pietenpol that can safely be replaced by stainless steel,
but unless the wall thickness and/or O.D. is increased appropriately, the
rudder bar isn't one. As I pointed out earlier, this is one of the few items
that specifically call for cro-moly. If the plans had called for 1020 steel, then
st.st. would provide a similar strength, but compared to 4130, st.st. is only
half as strong.
I realize that you are building YOUR plane, and doing it the way YOU want, and
that's your prerogative. The only reason I'm bothering to respond is for the benefit
of other builders out there who might be misled by your latest post.
I've said my bit, and I'll now bow out of this discussion. Feel free to build as
you please. We're only trying to give you a hand, but if you don't want to listen,
that's your choice.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332438#332438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | what to use and what to fly with comfortably--an ongoing |
discussion
There have been many accounts by very highly educated people of why or why not
we might prefer to use various metals and aircraft grade (which are READILY available)
hardware or not on a plans-built homebuilt design but I herewith withdraw my desire
to test fly the gorgeously-built airplane by Michael Perez. I think if
YOU feel comfortable
with all the changes you have made in the airplane and bill of materials that you
in fact should be the test pilot and I will be there at Columbia Airport cheering
you on and
being one of the very first to congratulate you on your first test flight but will
take no part in flying off the test time nor ever get into your airplane for
any subsequent rides or
flights thereafter. The plans built airplane is to the utmost the MOST experimental
plane in the air today in the United States of America and thank GOD
we don't have to go
thru the rigors of the PFA or the mess that the other countries prescribe they
go thru just to change a nut or bolt here and there. Happy flying to all and
to all a Good Night !
Mike C. Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Dan:
Would you be interested in selling your side mounted magneto setup? I might be
interested if it is available. I've followed your troubles on the list, and I
think the gear driven mag could be made to be very reliable with careful setup
of gear mesh. I would be concerned that a standby ignition system that is turned
off most of the time would suffer from fouled plugs.
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
NX311GP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332443#332443
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Nicely put, Bill.
Michael, the question for me is, why would you WANT to use stainless steel?
Other than being slightly more corrosion resistant than chromoly (it is NOT
rust proof, but is corrosion resistant), it is generally an inferior
material. It has less tensile strength, as has already been discussed, is
more expensive, work hardens fairly rapidly and is difficult to drill. What
possible advantage does it have?
It probably will be adequate for the task, but as was mentioned earlier, it
would be fairly simple to test it for this application by making a mockup
and applying pressure with both feet. But why use it? It will need the
ends squeezed flat and welded, just as Mike's spreader bars were done.
Stainless steel (particularly the austenitic grades, such as 18-8, or the
rest of the 300 series stainless steels) is useful for silverware and
hypodermic needles and other applications where corrosion resistance is a
key requirement. It is not much used in aircraft work because other
materials are better suited. Try titanium. It has better strength,
although not as much stiffness as stainless. And it has even better
corrosion resistance.
I suggest you listen well to Bill Church, since he is an engineer who spends
nearly every day designing for stainless steel. He knows his stuff.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Hoo-boy, what a response.
Michael (as opposed to Mike), your argument is way off base. The spreader
bars are NOT under a great deal of stress. The cross brace cables should
only have enough tension in them to take up the slack. And in the straight
axle gear, the axle essentially floats above the gear, attached by bungees.
The point is that the straight axle doesn't impose side loads like the split
gear would, therefore, even in a rough landing, there will not be extreme
forces transmitted to the spreader bars. Nonetheless, as Mike related, his
stainless steel spreaders did fail. The rudder bar, however CAN and WILL be
exposed to considerable forces exerted by the pilot. Have you ever had to
stop a vehicle suddenly, and find yourself pressing the brake pedal with all
your strength? Pressing the pedal harder after the brakes have locked will
do no good, yet that is what we do, as humans. In a moment of panic, the
rudder bar will very likely be exposed to forces far greater than it should
see under "nor!
mal" conditions. There are some metal parts on the Pietenpol that can
safely be replaced by stainless steel, but unless the wall thickness and/or
O.D. is increased appropriately, the rudder bar isn't one. As I pointed out
earlier, this is one of the few items that specifically call for cro-moly.
If the plans had called for 1020 steel, then st.st. would provide a similar
strength, but compared to 4130, st.st. is only half as strong.
I realize that you are building YOUR plane, and doing it the way YOU want,
and that's your prerogative. The only reason I'm bothering to respond is for
the benefit of other builders out there who might be misled by your latest
post.
I've said my bit, and I'll now bow out of this discussion. Feel free to
build as you please. We're only trying to give you a hand, but if you don't
want to listen, that's your choice.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332438#332438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | you make your choices---you take your chances |
Mike-- I'm not here to debate the stresses of the spreader bars vs. the rudder
bar, all I am saying is that with such a PRIMARY control you
should reconsider using non-4130 grade tubing for your rudder bar but hey....that's
the beauty of homebuilding---you can use whatever you want...
just count me out as ever being your test pilot or passenger. Period. As long
as YOU feel comfortable with your choices then YOU can do the test flying.
Mike C.
NX48MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Michael P.,
Just how much tailwheel time do you have, and how long have you been flying? Although
I don't have a tailwheel endorsement on my license yet, it seems to me
that the single most important control in a taildragger airplane is the rudder.
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so. But is this REALLY the place
where you should be substituting inferior materials in your Perezenpol "just
because"? If you decide not to use the SS tube, I have some leftover 1/2"
type L (soft) copper plumbing pipe here I'll donate to you, it's probably lighter
than the SS... With as much deviation from the plans as you have re-designed
into your plane, it will hardly be recognizable as a Piet. I personally
cannot figure out why you are going to such great lengths to re-engineer as much
of the plane as possible when the existing design works just fine.
You seem to ask a lot of questions, which is a very good thing. In my opinion
and 20 years of experience as a professional firearms instructor, there's no such
thing as a dumb question. However, you seem to ask your questions only in
order to get validation for your sometimes rather strange or perhaps even dangerous
ideas rather than to get honest answers from those who have engineering
degrees, A&P certificates, and/or actually successfully built and flown their
own planes. These people offer their opinions and ideas based on practical
experience, and then you summarily dismiss them and do it your own way anyhow
after all is said and done. I think Bernard got it pretty durn close 80 years
ago, and I think most on the list would agree with me.
I think the point of all of these warnings by the very generous and very knowledgeable
people on this list who know better is that NOBODY wants to see you get
hurt (or worse), or hurt someone else (or worse). I think it's a lot better
to play the what-if game BEFORE something goes wrong than after. "What if I
had only used 4130 for that rudder bar, then my plane might not be a pile of burning
rags, splinters and inferior stainless tubing in that smoking hole in the
weeds next to the runway."
Sorry if I might have stepped on your toes, that's not my intention here. We all
wish you the best and just want to see you build a SAFE airplane that won't
kill you or somebody else, and the Piet as built to the plans IS ALREADY a proven,
safe design that doesn't need massive re-engineering.
In the words of Forrest Gump, "that's about all I got to say about that," stepping
off my soapbox now.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332457#332457
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CLIF DAWSON <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
That must be why I have TWO rudder bars! :-)
Clif
.What you need to be aware of is the potential for the
> pilot to bend the rudder bar, by inadvertently pushing with both
> feet. The pilot will undoubtedly have both feet pressing against
> the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of uncoordinated
> footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of pushing
> on both sides of the rudder bar at the same time.
>
> Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Brett,
That plug fouling thing has some merit. I had not thought of that aspect. I
am not sure if I want to sell that side mount mag set-up, until things pan
out. Thanks for your input.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Phillips <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 9:10 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea?
t>
Dan:
ould you be interested in selling your side mounted magneto setup? I might
be
nterested if it is available. I've followed your troubles on the list, and
I
hink the gear driven mag could be made to be very reliable with careful set
up
f gear mesh. I would be concerned that a standby ignition system that is
urned off most of the time would suffer from fouled plugs.
Brett Phillips
trasburg, VA
X311GP
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332443#332443
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Every single person on here=2C most with a LOT of experience=2C have said i
t is a bad idea. If you are going to do it anyway=2C enough with the justi
fications and somewhat insulting remarks. Just do it and let's move on.
Gene Rambo
Date: Tue=2C 1 Mar 2011 17:26:08 -0800
From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
..." 'may' work fine for years and years but then again may not." That is
true for any part of any plane...your spreader bar as an example.
Comparing spreader bars to rudder bars is not a good comparison. Spreader b
ars are under stress all the time...pushing back on the tension from the f
our 1/8" L.G. cables. The rudder bar is only under stress while someone is
in the pilot seat. How about those forces? Four 1/8" cables trying to comp
ress the spreader bars=2C (how tight are those?)compared to...I don't know.
.. two heavy feet on the rudder bar? Then there are the forces on the sprea
ders when actually making a landing...and I would venture a guess=2C a few
HARD landings. I just don't see a comparison here. Different regions of the
plane=2C way different forces.
You used SS tube. You smashed the ends flat. (Induced stress=2C maybe cold
worked as well.) Then you bent those smashed ends. ( More stress) Curious..
.You know when you smash the ends=2C those really=2C really tight bends tha
t allow the two sides of the tube to come together=2C aren't those bends IN
LINE with the grain? At some point=2C you put a 1/4" hole in that smashed
=2C bent end as well and yet got 13 years out of it! What did you replace
your spreader bars with? I believe you said you used a heavier wall S.S. t
ube...yes? I believe you also said that if you have to replace them every 1
3 years or so=2C that's cool.
Your story about the broken bar=2C loved one in the plane=2C tall trees=2C
fuel=2C hot exhaust=2C etc. is entertaining but nothing more then a "what i
f." Your spreader bar COULD have let go at altitude=2C smashing through t
he windshield of a school bus full of kids on the high way=2C killing the d
river=2C the bus crosses over to in on-coming traffic=2C smashing another s
chool bus head on=2C killing everyone in both buses=2C plus the surrounding
vehicles that could not get out of the way in time. Then as you make an un
expected hard landing=2C your gear folds on one side=2C the wing tip drags.
.. then starts the cartwheel... you get my drift.
I believe that the 3/16" clevis pins are NOT going to pull through the smas
hed ends of the now .065" wall stainless. I would also bet that there won'
t be enough stress to have that 5/16" bolt at the pivot pull through the en
tire length of the sleeve and .035" wall tube. (3/4" tube) I guess it is po
ssible that the bar could bend if I were to freak out and press to hard on
both ends. I guess that is something to be aware of...no more then being a
ware to make sure the fuel cap is on right.
"...cheaping out"... Saving a few bucks is not the point. Not sure why ever
y time a change is made people assume it is money related.
You are correct about the placard...that says it all.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what to use and what to fly with comfortably--an ongoing |
discussion
Understood. I had reached that same conclusion Mike, no need for anyone else to
get into the pilot seat of my plane.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: you make your choices---you take your chances |
Noted and I concur. Period.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.g
ov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: you make your choices---you take your chances
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 11:20 PM
SPACE CORP]"
Mike-- I'm not here to debate the stresses of the spreader bars vs. the rud
der bar, all I am saying is that with such a PRIMARY control you
should reconsider using non-4130 grade tubing for your rudder bar but hey..
..that's the beauty of homebuilding---you can use whatever you want...
just count me out as ever being your test pilot or passenger.- Period.-
--As long as YOU feel comfortable with your choices then YOU can do the
test flying.
Mike C.
NX48MC
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
I agree there are people here who actually know what they are talking about
.-- As I have said I appreciate the comments and concerns by most here
and I do think and rethink my position after reading such posts. I DO NOT a
ppreciate the soap opera story telling just to suit ones own position nor t
he degrading name calling.- I want to use SS here because that is what I
want. I feel that even after reading these posts, knowing what material I u
sed, how it was assembled and how it will be installed, I am comfortable us
ing it as my rudder bar. I will keep an eye on it as with the rest of the p
lane.
True, the ends are squeezed and drilled, but they are not bent and I still
feel the landing gear sees more abuse then a rudder bar. Mike got 13 years
out of that bar, I bet I will get at least that out of my rudder bar.
Seems most feel that a rudder failure of some sort is a death sentence. Rea
lly? Is it imposable to make a landing without a rudder?
I would rather not argue, but at times I feel some people just throw out wo
rds, numbers and stories that are not true.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
| From: | james theissen <heavyliftpilot(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, i'm new to this site, but not new to the field of aviation. I've been
an army pilot for over 14 years, and flew many combat hours in Afghanistan.
I"ve been following this thread, and i think i should throw in my two cents,
so here it goes, If it calls it out in the prints, there's probably a good
reason for it. Hey, if your going to subsitute Aircraft grade 4130 for SS,
you might as well use yellow pine instead of spruce for the fuselage and
spars too! Don't fly over southeast georgia. thanks. jt
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I agree there are people here who actually know what they are talking
> about. As I have said I appreciate the comments and concerns by most here
> and I do think and rethink my position after reading such posts. I DO NOT
> appreciate the soap opera story telling just to suit ones own position nor
> the degrading name calling. I want to use SS here because that is what I
> want. I feel that even after reading these posts, knowing what material I
> used, how it was assembled and how it will be installed, I am comfortable
> using it as my rudder bar. I will keep an eye on it as with the rest of the
> plane.
>
> True, the ends are squeezed and drilled, but they are not bent and I still
> feel the landing gear sees more abuse then a rudder bar. Mike got 13 years
> out of that bar, I bet I will get at least that out of my rudder bar.
>
> Seems most feel that a rudder failure of some sort is a death sentence.
> Really? Is it imposable to make a landing without a rudder?
>
> I would rather not argue, but at times I feel some people just throw out
> words, numbers and stories that are not true.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
12,000 hours of experience tells me I would not want to lose my rudder control.
Aileron, pitch, power and trim can all be dealt with. No rudder on a tailwheel
aircraft? The best one can hope for is a violent ground loop on landing.
Try your next approach with your feet on the floor through touch down and roll
out. Let me know how it works out.
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:52:21
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
I agree there are people here who actually know what they are talking about. As
I have said I appreciate the comments and concerns by most here and I do think
and rethink my position after reading such posts. I DO NOT appreciate the soap
opera story telling just to suit ones own position nor the degrading name calling.
I want to use SS here because that is what I want. I feel that even after
reading these posts, knowing what material I used, how it was assembled and
how it will be installed, I am comfortable using it as my rudder bar. I will
keep an eye on it as with the rest of the plane.
True, the ends are squeezed and drilled, but they are not bent and I still feel
the landing gear sees more abuse then a rudder bar. Mike got 13 years out of
that bar, I bet I will get at least that out of my rudder bar.
Seems most feel that a rudder failure of some sort is a death sentence. Really?
Is it imposable to make a landing without a rudder?
I would rather not argue, but at times I feel some people just throw out words,
numbers and stories that are not true.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Interesting.I just Googled, "Aircraft Stainless Steel Failures.".quite a bit
of reading.
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar and forward controls |
Billy, no toe stepping felt here. Like the old saying, "It's not what you s
ay, it's how you say it."- I'll answer your post in order of questions.
I have about an hour or so tail wheel time. No landings and No take offs. I
have about 20 min. of on ground slow taxi practice. (basically no time)
-I disagree on the rudder being the single most important control.
"...hardly be recognizable as a Piet." That sounds like one of those over t
he top, no merit stories. Sure I have made changes...who hasn't? Most cosme
tic, but none changes the overall look of the plane. My rudder bar still lo
oks like a rudder bar. The fuselage, gear, wings, tail..all Pietenpol. Not
sure where this idea of not being recognized comes from.
I mainly ask questions to see if anyone else has tried, or knows someone wh
o has tried, the same thing. However, I did not ask if my rudder bar is OK
to change.- It was brought up by another person from another post. If som
eone could HONESTLY tell me that a SS rudder bar has failed in a Pietenpol,
I would reconsider.
..."These people offer their opinions and ideas based on practical experien
ce..."- Not always true. Most of the time yes, but not always.
Sure, the plane as drawn works fine. People have made changes over the year
s and I bet most of those were frowned upon at first. I understand the gene
ral concern here, but it seems that if a persons plane is not built to the
plans, not built the way others have already done it or not built to the li
king of everyone else, then there is a big upheaval.
..." I think it's a lot better to play the what-if game BEFORE something go
es wrong..." Your assuming something is going to go wrong. However, I agree
with this statement, so I ask the questions you may find strange on this l
ist. But when I do, the upheaval begins. It's difficult to inquire about "a
lternatives" knowing your going to get hammered for it. But I do so anyway,
because I want to know..not to start a fight.
""What if I had only used 4130 for that rudder bar, then my plane might =0A
not be a pile of burning rags, splinters and inferior stainless tubing =0Ai
n that smoking hole in the weeds next to the runway."
Good story, here's another:
After countless hours of flight time, bad weather, bad landings, crosswind
landings and panicked feet, the SS rudder bar has performed flawless to thi
s day and will continue to do so for many, many years to come.
"... doesn't need massive re-engineering." Agreed. To some, my changes may
be considered mass re-engineering, but I believe that may be a little extre
me. I do not consider the changes massive.
All in all I have read all the comments and I have a decision to make about
the rudder bar. My apologies to those who do not agree, and get upset.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow list day.........How about this idea? |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
I'm glad to hear that you haven't completely given up on the side drive. Keep
in mind that you could always find a WICO model X that plugs into the distributor
hole. They are not the prettiest thing in the world but as the old folks
used to say, "Pretty is as Pretty does". They turn up on Ebay frequently, and
parts are available from Standard Magneto Sales in Chicago.
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
NX311GP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332490#332490
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
If memory servers, the plans show the steel wing strut being bolted directly to
the fuselage fitting. The strut slips over the fitting and gets bolted through
with a single 5/16" bolt. I would like to use that same attaching method with
my aluminum strut. My plan is to weld onto the aluminum strut, aluminum plates
to beef up the bolt hole area. My question is how thick do these plates need
to be and how large? (area over the strut)
If you
go to the West Coast Piet. site, Jim Markle's pictures, page 4, second to last
picture, you will see what I mean. The difference being that I plan to bolt directly
to the fitting..no straps.
My math:
1/4" plate X2 plus the .119" wall of the tube = .25(2) + .119"(2) = .738"
.469" edge spacing X .738 = .346" sq.
.346"sq. X 11,600PSI (shear for the strut tube) = 4,013 lbs.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
On 3/2/2011 11:05 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> My plan is to weld onto the aluminum strut, aluminum plates to beef
up the bolt hole area.
You do know that welded aluminum takes on the structural properties of
cheese? 6061-T6 will eventually return to about the T4 condition, but at
best it's much less strong than after proper heat-treating, which is
beyond amateur capabilities. 2024 is generally considered not to be
weldable. You can stick two pieces together, but don't expect them to
remain that way under stress.
The Honey Bee and Pegasus ultralights, with fuselages made of welded
square aluminum tube, only look like they disprove the above. The guy
who designed them sized the tubing so it would be strong enough for use
in a small, lightly stressed airplane even after welding. Then he made
sure to keep the heat-affected zone as small as possible.
Considering the above, the notion of welding plates onto your struts
worries me. I believe the usual technique is to bolt a piece of square
aluminum stock inside the airfoil strut, and then bolt through the
square stock to the strut fittings.
FWIW
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
I was aware of some softening, but I did not know to what degree. I know some use
the aluminum insert threaded for a fork end, there is that option as well.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bphillip(at)shentel.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
Michael:
6061 aluminum has an ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi in the T6
condition. The as-welded UTS of material within the heat affected zone can be
as
HIGH as 24-25,000 psi if proper procedures are used with strict adherence to
interpass temperatures. In short, it really does turn into bubble gum once it
is
heated. After naturally aging for a long period of time, the T4 condition MAY
be
achieved, which would give ~40,000 psi. I'm an AWS welding inspector, and I like
bolts for this application.
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
NX311GP
> I was aware of some softening, but I did not know to what degree. I know some
use the
aluminum insert threaded for a fork end, there is that option as well.
>
> Michael Perez
>
> Karetaker Aero
>
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Shentel WebMail.
http://WebMail.Shentel.Net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
Thats the way all float fittings are done-bolted. I would not weld anythin
g aluminum that is structural.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Mar 2011 11:33:27 -0500
> From: owen5819(at)comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach.
>
>
> On 3/2/2011 11:05 AM=2C Michael Perez wrote:
>
> > My plan is to weld onto the aluminum strut=2C aluminum plates to beef
> up the bolt hole area.
>
> You do know that welded aluminum takes on the structural properties of
> cheese? 6061-T6 will eventually return to about the T4 condition=2C but a
t
> best it's much less strong than after proper heat-treating=2C which is
> beyond amateur capabilities. 2024 is generally considered not to be
> weldable. You can stick two pieces together=2C but don't expect them to
> remain that way under stress.
>
> The Honey Bee and Pegasus ultralights=2C with fuselages made of welded
> square aluminum tube=2C only look like they disprove the above. The guy
> who designed them sized the tubing so it would be strong enough for use
> in a small=2C lightly stressed airplane even after welding. Then he made
> sure to keep the heat-affected zone as small as possible.
>
> Considering the above=2C the notion of welding plates onto your struts
> worries me. I believe the usual technique is to bolt a piece of square
> aluminum stock inside the airfoil strut=2C and then bolt through the
> square stock to the strut fittings.
>
> FWIW
>
> Owen
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
Keep in mind that you must desing to yeild strength=2C not ultimate. Only
NASA designs to ultimate strength.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> From: bphillip(at)shentel.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach.
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Mar 2011 18:44:16 +0000
>
>
> Michael:
>
> 6061 aluminum has an ultimate tensile strength of 45=2C000 psi in the T6
> condition. The as-welded UTS of material within the heat affected zone ca
n be as
> HIGH as 24-25=2C000 psi if proper procedures are used with strict adheren
ce to
> interpass temperatures. In short=2C it really does turn into bubble gum o
nce it is
> heated. After naturally aging for a long period of time=2C the T4 conditi
on MAY be
> achieved=2C which would give ~40=2C000 psi. I'm an AWS welding inspector
=2C and I like
> bolts for this application.
>
> Brett Phillips
> Strasburg=2C VA
> NX311GP
>
>
> > I was aware of some softening=2C but I did not know to what degree. I k
now some
> use the
> aluminum insert threaded for a fork end=2C there is that option as well.
> >
> > Michael Perez
> >
> > Karetaker Aero
> >
> > www.karetakeraero.com
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using Shentel WebMail.
> http://WebMail.Shentel.Net
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HINT videos - caveat emptor |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The recent discussions about material substitutions got me thinking.
Michael, you are offering for sale a series of "HINT" videos that cover the construction
of your plane. And you have discussed here on the List some of the changes
that you have incorporated into your particular project. There may be other
changes that you have not shared with the List. As I recall, from your posts,
this is the first aircraft that you have built. I was wondering whether you
make it clear in your videos that the changes you have made are variations
from the plans, and are unproven. I use that word "unproven" because there have
been several times where you have described how you have varied from the plans,
and standard aircraft building practices or engineering advice. Based on those
criteria, many of your changes will really remain unproven until they have
been demonstrated to work in actual flight conditions and stand the test of
time.
I just can't help but wonder about the sensibility of offering "instructional"
videos documenting a number of changes that are not backed up by technical data
and/or practical aircraft building experience. Your website states that you
give reasons for the changes that you made, and the processes used, but do you
provide any science or data to back up your new designs? Luckily, you are not
offering plans for any of your changes.
Hopefully anyone purchasing your videos is aware of the situation, and is using
them for entertainment purposes only.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332520#332520
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HINT videos - caveat emptor |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Hear Hear!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332523#332523
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bphillip(at)shentel.net |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
ABSOLUTELY!
Brett
>
> Keep in mind that you must desing to yeild strength, not ultimate. Only
> NASA designs to ultimate strength.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Shentel WebMail.
http://WebMail.Shentel.Net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hey, this conversation sounds familiar...
Oh, I know why.
See this thread from a few years ago:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=46368
Let's see, 40 percent reduction from 45000 would be about 27000 - yup, looks like
the science hasn't changed in the last three years.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332532#332532
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fuse. Attach. |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
That's it... I'm scrapping my control horns. :(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332548#332548
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HINT videos - caveat emptor |
Yes Bill. The videos are more of a video log of my building process and not
so much- instructional videos. I should be more clear about that on the
website...thanks for the heads up.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HINT videos - caveat emptor |
Hey guys, how about getting Michael to come to brodhead and giving a forum
on how to reinvent the wheel. I am happy with how my plane flies and handle
s. Another subject--- anyone- out there interested in having a rendevoux
at TRIPPLE TREE AERODROME to their fly in the week after Labor Day? I plan
on going as it looks like a very neat place to camp out. It is just SE of F
ountain Inn SC
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, Michael Perez wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HINT videos - caveat emptor
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 5:52 PM
=0A=0A=0A=0AYes Bill. The videos are more of a video log of my building pro
cess and not so much- instructional videos. I should be more clear about
that on the website...thanks for the heads up.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
=0A=0A-=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: with all the fuss-- |
I had an even better Idea to save weight and un-complicate the rudder bar.
- I am thinking of just putting stirups on the ends of the rudder cables,
strap them directly to my feet with some leather staps, and a buckle, I wo
uld have a very good feel for the rudder that way, -that should be good..
.....................right.
-
-
Just Kidding Y'all,
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: with all the fuss-- |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Mike,
Thank you for that elegant reply. I followed the rudder bar thread yesterday and
was concerned that things were getting a little testy. This forum is so much
more civil than some I have followed, and left.
I think it is important that you pointed out Mike Perez's background. There is
no substitute for actual hands on experience, feeling the materials and knowing
their limitations. This forum represents a lot of talent. I know because
I have seen some of the flying examples up close.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332582#332582
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oscar's articles |
| From: | Earnest Bunbury <ebunburyesq(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar,
I just read your engine article in Sport Aviation. I had previously read it
in Contact, but again thoroughly enjoyed it in SA. Congratulations on a
well-crafted piece.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end o
f the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I wi
ll keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lb
s) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but ma
ybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was
a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about thi
s? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation
of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line w
ith the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob
from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Oscar's articles |
Thanks to all who commented on my article on Continental engines.
I love these engines and I love to write, so it was an easy and
fun piece to research and write about. I also fly behind one of
these engines, so it's more than just a labor of love... it's sort
of like a marriage in that I depend on my engine, I have to trust
it, care for it, and respect its limitations and weaknesses. And
obviously, it relies on me for its care and attention.
To those who have a leaning towards, or away from, certified "real"
aircraft engines or converted automobile engines, let me just say
that these are all just machines that are made by humans using other
machines and materials. They have strengths and weaknesses. What
I have found about the Continentals that we use on our airplanes is
that the vast majority of them have been around for a very long time
and very few of them have an impeccable service history. Even with
all the logbooks and the proper pedigree, very few of them are
exactly in the form that their certification requires. There will
be a technical article coming up in our EAA Chapter 35 newsletter
by my friend R.B. "Doc" Hecker, in collaboration with A&P Mark Julicher
(who did the last annual on my Piet and who loves these old airplanes
as much as anyone I've met), about just how spooky the inside of
some of these engines can be. When the article comes out, I'll
post the link here for the benefit of others.
The article will have all the makings of a good mystery novel:
good intentions gone bad, things going 'bump' in the night (daytime,
in this case), lots of money, vile cursing, and surprises at
every twist and turn. The culprits are found and brought to
justice, but getting there isn't pretty and lives hung in the
balance ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is pr
icey=2C but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for
a home made one using a R/C model starter=2C but I can't for the life of me
find the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Thu=2C 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
Hello All=2C
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work=2C but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end
of the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I
will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installi
ng some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6
lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but
maybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it w
as a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about t
his? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installatio
n of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side=2C and in-li
ne with the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups
rob from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Thanks Doug,
Maybe this is the way to go. It's more "Pietenpol-ish" anyway. I'll look at
it for sure.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 8:03 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is pr
icey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for a
home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the life of me fin
d the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end o
f the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I wi
ll keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lb
s) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but ma
ybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was
a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about thi
s? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation
of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line w
ith the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob
from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
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-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net> |
To Dan Helsper re long lasting battery. look up Odyssey batteries. They
have the unique quality of having both heavy cranking and deep cycle. The
military uses them for vehicles that are in storage for long periods of
time. Great for trolling motors. I have one in my Piet. Brad Williams
NX29NX>
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Doug Dever wrote:
> Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is
> pricey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for a
> home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the life of me find
> the web site.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> From: helspersew(at)aol.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt
> system idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to
> two hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the
> end of the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe
> I will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by
> installing some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing
> catalog (6 lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I
> thought but maybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I
> think it was a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know
> more about this? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like
> installation of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side,
> and in-line with the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types
> of set-ups rob from the engine?
> Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> *
>
> st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Doug
Here is a PDF with some detail.
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jim Markle/Others Help |
| From: | "dfwplt" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I would not do it that way again. I would do the struts exactly the same way Larry
Williams did his. Two bolts, spaced a bit apart and no doubler plates.
Someone mentioned that the welding process can possibly introduce a tiny bit of
localized weakening in the integrity of the material. And that got me to wondering
if it was actually worth the trouble. Honestly, part of my motivation
was to have my brother, a master craftsman with anything welding related, be
a part of the project.
I've actually considered grinding them off but have decided to just leave well
enough alone.
I did the math (with some help from a couple smart guys here on the list) and I'm
comfortable with the Carlson struts. Just wouldn't go to the trouble of doubling
up for the bolt holes.
I don't remember the thickness of the plates we welded on but would be glad to
go measure if you want to know. I would also use something a bit thinner if I
was going to weld on those plates again.
JM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332630#332630
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Thank you jack. Your post hits on a lot of very key points. Maybe coming from you,
they will get noticed.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I agree Jack, well said. =0A=0AI enjoy reading Michael's contributions and
the following debate/discussion but =0Ait seemed it has taking a turn for t
he worse latley. =0A=0A=0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com=0ASent: Thu, March 3, 2011 9:59:23 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List
: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material=0A=0A=0ASince I=99m on a sel
f-imposed moratorium(for 18 more days)onnotingthedangersof =0Ausing a Corva
ir to power an airplane, I=99ve enjoyed the discussion about rudder
=0Abar materials.=C2- However, I want to point out that we are getting da
ngerously =0Aclose to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright mean as
the RV-10 List has =0Agotten.=0AI think a lot of us (myself included) felt
that Michael Perez had asked what =0Amaterials people had used on their rud
der bars, and then, when reasons were =0Aadvanced why stainless steel shoul
d NOT be used, he announced that he would use =0Ait anyway.=C2- This was
often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past, who =0Awould propose to
do something and ask if there was a problem.=C2- Several people =0Awould
go to the trouble of explaningexactly whythis might be a problem, and then
=0Ahe would announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow.=C2- He w
as not looking =0Afor advice, but for validationfor his choice.=0AHowever,
this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion.=C2- In this =0As
ituation,Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for t
he =0Arudder bar instead of=9Cstructural tubing=9D.=C2- Mr. P
erez indicated that he had used =0A.035=9Dwall stainless steel for hi
s ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.=C2- He was =0Aneither asking for advice
or validation.=C2- As he said repeatedly, in several =0Aemails,=9D
I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up.=9D=0AI think we owe Mic
hael an apology.=C2- It is absolutely his choice what materials =0Ato use
.=C2- It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or not.
=C2- =0AThat=99s the beauty of Experimental Aviation.=C2- I suspe
ct that after all the hoopla =0Aover his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight =0Ainspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking.=C2- Stainless steel is not so bad =0Aa material that it will f
ail catastrophically without yielding and with no =0Awarning.=0AThegreat th
ing aboutthis List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List is =0Aunique
in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer advice.=C2
- =0AThere is no=9Ccredentialing=9Dto determine who is able t
o offer advice, so it takes =0Aa while to figure outwho knows what they
=99re talking about and who doesn=99t.=C2- I =0Adon=99tthi
nk any of uswant to see this list get so vitriolic that people are =0Aafrai
d to ask questions or offer advice for fear of beingpublicly ridiculed.=0AR
emember,=9CWe=99re all Snowflakes=9D.=C2- No two Pieten
pols are identical, and we=99ve all =0Amade changes to the design (ho
rror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding =0Aelectronic ignition,and an el
ectrical system to support it,to his pristine Model =0AA Pietenpol).=C2-
I myself had a forced landing in my PietenpolbecauseI used =0Astainless ste
el (there=99s that word again) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat.
=C2- =0AEven a reliable old Continental can=99t run very well when
it ingests a wad of =0Astainless steel.=C2- Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn=99t snap.=0ALet=99s try to keep it friendly and remember
that as much as we love these =0Aairplanes, the really valuable thing about
being involved with Pietenpols is the =0Afriendships we gain through this
airplane.=C2- Some of the people I=99ve met on this =0Alist I now c
ount as my very best friends.=0AOnly 141 more days until Brodhead.=0AJack P
hillips=0ANX899JP=C2-=9CIcarus Plummet=9D=C2- (which plumme
============ =0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim Markle/Others Help |
Thanks Jim. Sounds like a good plan. By the way, I have looked at other pictures
of yours on the WCP site...very nice.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Good post Jack and your points are very well taken. There was an Pietenp
ol built by a gent in Ohio out of white pine (years ago) and Elmer's
glue and it flew just fine for years until he had a stall-spin accident and
put it into the trees at Brodhead. Only then were the inferior grades of
lumber and glue discovered but until that point it flew just fine.
My posts in this thread were to illuminate the simple fact that critical (a
nd I think we could all agree that having any kind of flight control system
trouble
isn't desired under any circumstances and the rudder of course is even a cr
itical ground control as well.) flight controls should be made of the best
materials and assembled with standard AN hardware, period. Anything less
is the builder's choice but should something happen in the future (God for
bid)
where an inferior material caused an accident, injury, or death I don't wan
t to be the one on the list who didn't say something to the builder, whoeve
r it is
and I voice my opinion about not test flying Mike's airplane on the list be
cause I want it to be publicly noted that just because some of us have lots
of
Pietenpol hours we should seriously consider the risks of just jumping in t
o test fly a new ship that another person built unless you are very intima
te
with the materials used, the level of craftsmanship, and any modifications
that deviate from the plans that are non-cosmetic in nature.
This is a wonderful list and there are a group of fantastically knowledgeab
le people on here with some incredible credentials and I for one as a techn
ician
(not an engineer by degree) look for solid, sound advice even now just to s
oak up this knowledge that is so freely shared among us. I believe that t
his
discussion deviated from the simple facts to an emotional pissing contest a
nd for that I apologize for my part in the drama that is not normally part
of the
list HOWEVER when I am asked by a builder to point out anything that looks
slightly non-airworthy or questionable and I voice my thoughts (based on so
und
aircraft construction practices as outlined in all of the Tony Bingelis boo
ks and elsewhere) and the advice is ignored, discarded, and dismissed I ten
d to realize,
as you said so well Jack that the builder has already made up his mind and
I shouldn't waste my time in the future voicing concerns or thoughts about
how
to improve an assembly or make it safer or more reliable.
Carry on all and keep making sawdust and fittings. There is NOTHING more e
xciting than to see a new
Pietenpol arrive on at Brodhead like we witnessed last year with Kevin Purt
ee and Dan Helsper's planes making their debut and
I look forward to guys like Gene Rambo and Mike Perez making first time app
earances there too in addition to anyone else who
might be closing in on the 8th and 9th innings of the building process !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
"Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=99t snap"
It's just soooooooo hard to stay away from that subject.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
I have a Piper Cherokee that my wife loves to fly and I used to belong to a Cherokee
board similar to this one. The nastiness, name calling, and political diatribes
made it pretty much useless for anything except archive searches for
a specific issue. I no longer visit it. The Pietenpol movement, and this board
in particular, have been mostly immune from that sort of negativity and is
one of the reasons I'm building one.
Thank you Jack for reminding us of the need to read carefully and respond civilly
and intelligently. Now back to making spruce sticks for Sun n Fun...
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332640#332640
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
The Corvair guys sometimes use a John Deere alternator. It's light and puts out
like 18 amps. Start thinking EFIS!!!
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332644#332644
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Dan go to ebay and search for:
Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I have a regulator that
fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under the flywheel. It is about the size of
a book of gopher matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my memory is right Gardiner
has one on his Piet. It is only a 15 amp output but that will take care
of anything that I would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
what Bill said about what Jack said......
P.S. Anyone building, already completed, or even interested in a Pietenpol, no
matter the material or engine choice, is welcome at "the world's smallest airplane
factory" in Issaquah, WA...
I appreciate the friendly nature of this "community" which is one of the reasons
I chose the Piet design......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332657#332657
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Very sad news to report |
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call in
to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy a
few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done
only to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace
and presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Very sad news to report |
I am so sorry to hear this news, but I feared it was coming. I had tried to
call him a couple of weeks ago and talked with his wife, Tammy. She said he
was too weak to talk and had not been able to eat anything for 3 weeks.
Apparently the remission he reported just before Christmas was just God's
way of allowing him to enjoy one more holiday season.
Gene was diagnosed with leiomyosarcoma
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiomyosarcoma) a little less than a year ago
and fought it tooth and nail, refusing to give up until the very end. I've
never known a braver, more spirited man. He was a good pilot and a good
friend. I will miss him. Please say a prayer for Tammy (Gene doesn't need
your prayers as he is flying better now than he ever has before).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call in
to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy a
few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done only
to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace and
presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Jerry, I have the John Deere alternator and the Subaru starter. I am very pleased
with both. Gardiner Ditto on the PC680 battery
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> Dan go to ebay and search for:
>
> Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I
> have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under
> the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of gopher
> matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
> to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my
> memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is only a
> 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that I
> would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
> have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar MaterialJack Phillips, amen and AMEN to
your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much less flown, an airplane with
a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in
planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on
rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting
the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the
discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out
that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had
asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In
this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing
(?) for the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez
indicated that he had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation.
As he said repeatedly, in several emails, " I feel comfortable with my
rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect
that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will fail
catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol
List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and
offer advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to
offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're
talking about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this
list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer
advice for fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical,
and we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper
is now adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support
it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing
in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there's that word again)
wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
can't run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank
goodness the crankshaft didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love
these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with
Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of
the people I've met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Very sad news to report |
Amen to that, too!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
I am so sorry to hear this news, but I feared it was coming. I had
tried to call him a couple of weeks ago and talked with his wife, Tammy.
She said he was too weak to talk and had not been able to eat anything
for 3 weeks. Apparently the remission he reported just before Christmas
was just God's way of allowing him to enjoy one more holiday season.
Gene was diagnosed with leiomyosarcoma
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiomyosarcoma) a little less than a year
ago and fought it tooth and nail, refusing to give up until the very
end. I've never known a braver, more spirited man. He was a good pilot
and a good friend. I will miss him. Please say a prayer for Tammy
(Gene doesn't need your prayers as he is flying better now than he ever
has before).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:51 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would
call in to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his
wife Tammy a few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she
would appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or
done only to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the
beautiful peace and presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe
travels my friend.
John
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation
rolls...
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A great deal on Barnstormers |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
On Barnstormers right now, there's a really nice Pietenpol project, ready for cover,
with a bunch of new parts, complete with a 0hrs SMOH C85 for sale, all for
about the value of the engine. Looks like a great opportunity for someone.
Go to barnstormers.com, and search "pietenpol".
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332692#332692
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/barnstormers_piet_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Very sad news to report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Thanks John, for conveying that very sad news,
I never actually got a chance to meet Gene in person. After Jack let us kno
w of his rally in December, Gene and I wrote each other about the possibili
ty of getting together with our wives, after Denise and I were to move down
there this spring. As fate would have it, we missed it by a few weeks, as
we are virtually ready to make the move this weekend. God has his reasons f
or everything, "His ways are not our ways"...................... Gene Penni
ngton, rest in peace....................My prayers go out to his wife Tammy
.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | firewall insulating barrier |
Actually, fiberfrax isn't an insulator. It's a firewall material that
Stops fire the same as metal. I can attest that heat goes through it!
Having said that I have put 1/8" of the stuff under my firewall. It
Would make a great stuffing for through fittings.
Clif
I put fiberfrax on mine. You don't really need it, if you don't need the
firewall. If the engine catches fire, the more insulation the better.
Jack Phillips
ase Date: 03/03/11
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | look what a friend of mine found |
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, scott swear wrote:
From: scott swear <sswear01(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 8:30 PM
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hockin, Paul <Paul_Hockin(at)steris.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM
Subject: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
Thought you might find this interesting.
=C2-
From: SHARON HOCKIN [mailto:shocking2(at)bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:02 AM
Subject: Fw: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dee & Betty Gilliland <deebetty(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:31:50 PM
Subject: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
I=99m sure everyone will enjoy seeing Col. Harrod=99s new airpl
ane project. Looks like he will have a great time rebuilding and flying thi
s one!
=C2-
From: Mary Harrod
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: pientenpol
=C2-
Dear Dee,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Terry Kerby and I found this Pietenpol in an old b
arn in Fayetteville.=C2- It had been there five years.=C2- The man who
built it and flew it down from St. Louis died.=C2- The fabric is absolute
ly perfect but has 1/4 inch of dirt on it.=C2- We got it for $1500.=C2-
All we have to do is clean it up and Terry will completely over the Contin
ental 65 and we have to put a prop on it.=C2- So now I own one and 1/2 ai
rplanes.=C2- The cockpit was perfectly preserved because it had a special
cover made for it.=C2- The leather seats and the leather around the pane
l just need to be saddle soaped and will look like new.=C2- Please send o
ut to the members.=C2- Lawrence
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question wing strut barrel |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi guys hope everyone is well I am about to start building again over here in the
west I am hoping the container with the Piet in it arrives safe today.
But in the meantime can anyone tell me how wide these barrels are?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/05-05900.jpg
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332703#332703
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gene Pennington |
Jack
I wish we had enough willing souls to do a fly by tribute missing man
formation for Gene. I had spoken with him a number of times and had e mail
communications also. When I learned of hid diagnosis I introduced him toy
boss who to was diagnosed Two years prior and was in remission from a rare
form. Gene wasn't sure about what to expect. I put the two together in hopes
my bosses experience could be shared along with his attitude.
The two spoke a couple of times it gave Gene some hope and reassurance that
experimental programs are available and working. I was hoping that my bosses
attitude would somehow give support to Genes spirit attitude and optimism to
keep him going through the dark days of his treatment. Gene appreciated the
time and support. My boss Brian was able to give. I spoke with Gene later
and he was looking at getting into the air and maybe building another Piet
we spoke I bought his tail wheel. We had good conversations.
I was fearful that one day I would be thinking of him call and learn he had
gone. My worst fears were confirmed today. I thought of him yesterday and
wanted to call then. Having almost met him three years prior we never did
meet face to face something I wish we had. I did tell him I got his tail
wheel mount built and bolted to my project. It was during Buildapalooza 2010
he was glad to hear it was mounted and asked for pics I never sent. I didn't
feel I had anything worthy of sending although he would have liked seeing
the pics.
My boss is still fighting his battle even after loosing his wife to cancer
last spring. He still has his attitude an optimism in tact although I am nt
sure how he will take the news about Gene our mutual friend.
I have no idea why i am sharing this with you now I just felt the need
John
I contacted jack yesterday for His number I got free from my meetings today
only to learn of his passing.
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 00:02:28 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gene Pennington
I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation
rolls...
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Doug
I have an Odessy battery in my Rotec piet. Cranks that radial over just
fine.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: bradandlinda tds.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
To Dan Helsper re long lasting battery. look up Odyssey batteries.
They have the unique quality of having both heavy cranking and deep
cycle. The military uses them for vehicles that are in storage for long
periods of time. Great for trolling motors. I have one in my Piet.
Brad Williams NX29NX>
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Doug Dever
wrote:
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00
it is pricey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw
plans for a home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the
life of me find the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic
ignition/batt system idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend
the flying time to two hours would work, but then I am still left with a
dead battery at the end of the flight which would I'm sure become a real
pain quickly. So maybe I will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra
weight allowance by installing some mini alternator? I found one in the
Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for
$279.00. A bit pricey I thought but maybe I could bite the bullet. I
know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was a Kabota) small alternator
on his Model A. Does anyone know more about this? I looked at my engine
briefly last night and it looks like installation of such a thing would
not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line with the water pump
drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob from the
engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Here's the file again with the pictures (I hope)
I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation rolls.
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Jack I agree whole heartedly. Dan Yokum and Gary Boothe will attest to the way
my attitude has gotten. There have been a couple of topics that I have felt qualified
to offer up advice on but didn't because of fanning the flames. I consider
us to be a fraternity of builders that very few builders get to experience.
I have been wanting to build a Piet over 40 years and this glorious Internet
came along and we can share pictures and ideas freely. While I don't agree with
some posts I try not to flame the poster. I may ignore it! While my rear rudder
pedals are 4130 my front pedals are stainless tubing but I would fly one
with the pedals made from 1/2" EMT conduit.
My opinions:
Welding 4130...... Tig or Oxy-Acet makes very little difference. Quality of the
weld is what matters. I have both and used both on my airplane. Close places
I prefer the torch over TIG. I have not made the engine mount yet but I would
guess it will have both. Any TIG welds on it will be stress relieved.
Finish....... with today's fabric dope, auto paint, latex house house paint, oil
based house paint.......all will work. My Piet will have Rustoleum oil base
on it. The 1/4 scale Fleet in my avatar is 11 years old, is covered with Dacron,
has sat in the sun several days in that time span and has over 100 hours in
the air. I am comfortable using the Rustoleum because of its performance on that
model. It still looks nearly new.
Engine selection.......I won't get too deep into it. Auto conversions are OK if
done right. I like the reduction drives to get prop efficiency and take the gyroscopic
forces off the crank. I prefer certificated engines because they need
no conversion, most have no head gasket to blow, have individual stand alone
cylinders so you can repair just the one that gives you problems. I also like
wooden props over metal as they are kind to your engine and look good to boot.
Welding and engines are my life's work. Certified gas pipeline welder at 18 years
of age then did maintenance on stationary engines of 2000 to 15000 horsepower
for 41 years. I worked part time in a FAA approved repair station 4 years
to help support my flying habit. I did engine work for them and helped with some
annual inspections. Does this experience make me a welding and mechanical guru?
No. Not by any means but I have seen the innards of a lot of engines. Anyone
wanting personal opinions one on one feel welcome to email me or call. The
pictures show the big ones break just like a small one. I bent the rod in 1975
starting the engine. It had water on in the cylinder(now we know why you pull
inverted and radials through before starting). It has 12" journals on the crankshaft.
That rod cost $18000. The other one with the broken piston skirt was
because management chose to buy aftermarket(cheap)cylinder liners and it failed.
That engine has a 16" bore and 22" stroke
I get off the box now. I hope I have not offended anyone. It was not my intent.
I am trying to promote harmony. We have a good bunch here and let us have fun.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332715#332715
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bent_con_rod_931.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/16_inch_bore_328.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gene Pennington |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I throw this out there not because it has anything to do with me, but
because it has a few precious seconds of Gene as he was when I met him. The
video does not do justice.....he was a gregarious, tremendously warm man,
and I was blessed to be able to know him for a very short time. Godspeed
Gene,
Ryan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DulYH6AuMzc
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Jack Phillips wrote
:
> Here=92s the file again with the pictures (I hope)
>
>
> I can=92t stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
> yesterday.
>
>
> Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry
> it to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
>
>
> And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol
at
> the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
>
>
> At least now he=92s free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I=92ll ta
ke my
> RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
>
> (to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he=92ll b
e
> there with me, just off my left wing. We=92ll do a couple of formation r
olls=85
>
>
> Fly well, my friend.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> Dan go to ebay and search for:
>
> Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I
> have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under
> the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of gopher
> matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
> to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my
> memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is only a
> 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that I
> would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
> have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Dan - You'll have plenty of power for the moving map on your new GPS-capable IPAD
with all the VFR/IFR worldwide charts, approach plates, etc.
I use the John Deere alternator/regulator, too. Has worked good for 180 hours.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332734#332734
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: look what a friend of mine found |
That is very cool! Had the pictures not been attached, I would not have bel
ieved the "Found in a barn" bit. Heard a lot of that around the classic car
world...
Great find, GREAT price!-
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find that once
again I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I might be able
to pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in the discs from the
5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers and have some brakes
but then reality set in and I discovered that the bolt circle in the bigger wheels
won't let that happen. so i guess I will once again fill and bleed the critters
and hope for a little stopping power.have any of you tried running the
old expander bladder I guess they would be called brakes with success? I expect
they are from similar old Piper service since they bolted right up the the
Cub gear but they seem to have very little expansion with the newer style master
cylinders-maybe the small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to move
the segmented shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go back
to the 5" wheels and tires I took off because the runway I use is very rough
but it may come to that. money is an issue. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332750#332750
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack=2C I do not want to sound in any way critical=2C but you mentioned th
e C word again.
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Date: Thu=2C 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips=2C amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen=2C
much less flown=2C an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years th
is past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So
I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: Thursday=2C March 03=2C 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the d
angers of using a Corvair to power an airplane=2C I=92ve enjoyed the discus
sion about rudder bar materials. However=2C I want to point out that we ar
e getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly=2C unhelpful and downrig
ht mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked wha
t materials people had used on their rudder bars=2C and then=2C when reason
s were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used=2C he announced that
he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman=2C o
f years past=2C who would propose to do something and ask if there was a pr
oblem. Several people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why thi
s might be a problem=2C and then he would announce that he would proceed wi
th his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice=2C but for validation for
his choice.
However=2C this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In thi
s situation=2C Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?)
for the rudder bar instead of =93structural tubing=94. Mr. Perez indicate
d that he had used .035=94 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED
rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said r
epeatedly=2C in several emails=2C =94 I feel comfortable with my rudder bar
set up.=94
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what materi
als to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or n
ot. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after al
l the hoopla over his choice of materials=2C Michael will make it a point o
n his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainles
s steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer a
dvice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to determine who is able to offer a
dvice=2C so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they=92re talking
about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t think any of us want to see this list
get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice fo
r fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember=2C =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are identical
=2C and we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of horrors=2C Dan He
lsper is now adding electronic ignition=2C and an electrical system to supp
ort it=2C to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landin
g in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there=92s that word again
) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental ca
n=92t run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodne
ss the crankshaft didn=92t snap.
Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes=2C the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols
is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I=92
ve met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying to digest st
ainless steel)
Raleigh=2C NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days now).
Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C" word? I
realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners - it's difficult
to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned the C
word again.
_____
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much
less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past
January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I
couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack,
Very well stated.
I did ask the simple question, "cold rolled" or "structral". I read postings with
amazement as this grew a life of its own. In my 20 years working in the medical
profession, my medical instructor taught me one very valuable lesson ~ Ask
the right question(s), listen with both ears, and your patient will tell you
everything you need to know! In this case, Michael Perez responed with stainless
steel for his rudder bar.
I agreed with many of the reponses it is my opinion in keeping with the structural
tubing as the plans call for. I was just asking a simple question.
What has me flaming is the demeanor used by some to tear down the person beyond
the written responses as to why he should not use a particular material. Make
the point, state the reasons or examples of why you back your point, and convience
based on real situations or vaild logic.
In closing, as a member of this list for several years, I find this the best group
of concerned people anywhere in any listserve! Besides, where else can you
enjoy laughs, friendships, and great advice without attacking others opinions
and questions?
This is one village idiot who believes laughter, personalities, and corvair running
engines make the world go round! Need I digress....
KMHeide
Fargo, ND
(Where your FAA written test comes from!)
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 8:59 AM
>
>
>
>
>
> The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
>
>
> Since Im on a self-imposed
> moratorium (for 18 more
> days)
> on noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane,
> Ive enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar
> materials. However, I want to point out that we are
> getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
> and downright mean as the RV-10 List has
> gotten.
>
> I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that
> Michael Perez had asked what materials people had used on
> their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were advanced why
> stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he
> would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
> The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do
> something and ask if there was a problem. Several
> people would go to the trouble of
> explaning exactly
> why this might be a
> problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed
> with his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice,
> but for validation for his choice.
>
> However, this was NOT the situation on the
> rudder bar discussion. In this
> situation, Ken Heide
> initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for the
> rudder bar instead of structural tubing. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used
> .035 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
> CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for
> advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
> several emails, I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set
> up.
>
> I think we owe Michael an apology. It is
> absolutely his choice what materials to use. It is our
> choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or
> not.
> Thats the beauty of Experimental
> Aviation. I suspect
> that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials,
> Michael will make it a point on his preflight inspections to
> check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless steel is
> not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically
> without yielding and with no warning.
>
> The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
> Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel
> welcome to ask questions and offer advice. There is
> no credentialing to determine who is able to offer advice, so
> it takes a while to figure out who knows what theyre talking about and who
> doesnt. I dont think any of
> us want to see this
> list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask
> questions or offer advice for fear of
> being publicly
> ridiculed.
>
> Remember, Were all Snowflakes. No two Pietenpols are identical, and
> weve all made changes to the design (horror of
> horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic
> ignition, and an electrical
> system to support it, to his pristine
> Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in
> my Pietenpol because I used stainless
> steel (theres that word again) wool in the heat muffs for
> carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
> cant run very well when it ingests a wad of
> stainless steel. Thank
> goodness the crankshaft didnt snap.
>
> Lets try to keep it friendly and remember that as
> much as we love these airplanes, the really valuable thing
> about being involved with Pietenpols is the friendships we
> gain through this airplane. Some of the people
> Ive met on this list I now count as my very best
> friends.
>
> Only 141 more days until
> Brodhead.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP Icarus Plummet (which plummeted through trying to
> digest stainless steel)
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Jerry, I don't know if my post went through. I am using the John Deere alternator
and Subaru starter. Also the Odyssey PC680 battery.
--- On Fri, 3/4/11, airlion wrote:
> From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 8:31 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: airlion
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson
> wrote:
>
> > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight
> alternator/generator?
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: "Jerry Dotson"
> >
> > Dan go to ebay and search for:
> >
> > Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> > This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3
> pounds. I
> > have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp
> under
> > the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of
> gopher
> > matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric
> motor
> > to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If
> my
> > memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is
> only a
> > 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that
> I
> > would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are
> great. I
> > have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
> >
> > --------
> > Jerry Dotson
> > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> > Baker, FL 32531
> >
> > Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> > using Lycoming O-235
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Gardiner,
Thanks for the feedback. I just came in the house from testing my alternator and
I looked up the pictures I got the day I visited with you. Your John Deere and
my Kubota appear to be identical. My regulator does not look the same.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332762#332762
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A great deal on Barnstormers |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Eh.... where ya'll from gene??? let me guess them moonshine hills of kentucky or
them swamps of Louisiana. I reken you might fancy to come up to theese parts
and show us fellers how to build them flyn' machines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332763#332763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Yes, I had the expandable bladder type brakes on a PA22 TriPacer that I
converted to a PA20 taildragger. They worked really well, in fact they
saved the plane when I was checking the guy out in it when he bought it from
me. He said he was tail-wheel qualified but on our first takeoff (he was
flying from the left seat and I was in the right seat -- fortunately I had
put toe brakes on both sides) the plane almost got away from him on takeoff.
I jumped on the right brake and got it straightened out before it ground
looped. The brakes worked fine. We went to a field with wider runways and
spent about 2 hours having him make takeoffs until he could handle the plane
with no trouble. If having bladder type brakes is a solution to your
problem, I recommend them. Chuck C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
>
>
> Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find
> that once again I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I
> might be able to pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in
> the discs from the 5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers
> and have some brakes but then reality set in and I discovered that the
> bolt circle in the bigger wheels won't let that happen. so i guess I will
> once again fill and bleed the critters and hope for a little stopping
> power.have any of you tried running the old expander bladder I guess they
> would be called brakes with success? I expect they are from similar old
> Piper service since they bolted right up the the Cub gear but they seem to
> have very little expansion with the newer style master cylinders-maybe the
> small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to move the segmented
> shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go back to the
> 5" wheels and tires I took off because the!
> runway I use is very rough but it may come to that. money is an issue.
> Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332750#332750
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next
year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock
oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days
now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C"
word? I realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners -
it's difficult to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
To: piet list
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned
the C word again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen,
much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years
this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes.
So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the
comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting
the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the
discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out
that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had
asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion.
In this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled
tubing (?) for the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez
indicated that he had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation.
As he said repeatedly, in several emails, " I feel comfortable with my
rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect
that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will fail
catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask
questions and offer advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine
who is able to offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows
what they're talking about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us
want to see this list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask
questions or offer advice for fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical,
and we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper
is now adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support
it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing
in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there's that word again)
wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
can't run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank
goodness the crankshaft didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love
these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with
Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of
the people I've met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c st"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listttp://fo
rums.matronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
This may be helpful:
http://iowamotorparts.com/kubota_alternators.htm
they do show up on ebay now and then at about half that price.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
>
> Gardiner,
> Thanks for the feedback. I just came in the house from testing my
alternator and I looked up the pictures I got the day I visited with you.
Your John Deere and my Kubota appear to be identical. My regulator does not
look the same.
>
> --------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C word.....
Continental !
Thank you...I feel much better now. :)
Happy Friday good people !
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBDA78.1A35DF60]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
You will make it to Illinois. Then you will have a visit from this
"gentleman."
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100026
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
February 17, 2011 - March 04, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ke