RV-Archive.digest.vol-km
March 31, 2001 - April 06, 2001
I have emailed Van's but would like to get working this weekend.
QUESTION: Anyone else been in the same boat, or more accurately the same
inverted canoe? Your solution?
Thanks and Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Fuselage
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
we could all meet at our celebrity web page master ( SAM BUCCANON )spelling?
, plane on sunday 12 noon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 Fuselage F815 to F804 Attach |
Measure, measure, measure again- if the parts don't fit you may be measuring
from the wrong places on one or both parts. You need to measure close in to
the skins on both parts. Make sure you measure in the same plane. Make
sure the rear spar attach plates sticking out of the fuse aren't curved at
all.
My replacement side skin is showing up Tuesday so I can redo it- I measured
20 or 30 times and still managed to botch it- I should have been tipped off
by the edge distance problem at the front end on only one side. If the
parts don't fit be very suspicious of your measurements!
Matthew
-8A canoe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vincent S. Himsl
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV8 Fuselage F815 to F804 Attach
Hello,
STAGE: Fuselage measuring the F804 to rear spar distance to insure wings
will fit prior to 'tacking down' the F815 floor rib.
PROBLEM: Though everything lines up, the F815 floor rib flange does not
tuck under the F804 main carry through spar flange enough to rivet through
it and still maintain rivet hole to edge(end) clearance.
I have emailed Van's but would like to get working this weekend.
QUESTION: Anyone else been in the same boat, or more accurately the same
inverted canoe? Your solution?
Thanks and Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Fuselage
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
I'll be going to S&F and this year will park there. I usually park at Bartow
since I stay there. Would like to meet many of you. I suggest we pick
someone's plane that is easy to recognize and m eet there on a certain day
and time. My aircraft is all Gold and has the name Mariah on the tail.
Don Champagne
N767DC RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
Glad to hear another favorable comment on the Odyssey. I am not at all happy
with the last two Concords I bought. Mine have started to weaken after the
first year in service. The last one is just two years old and is showing
signs of going belly up.
Dave
Dave,
I just purchased two Odyssey 680s for $115 each which was the cheapest I
could find after much searching. I also saw price ranges from 159-179 as
most common. If ordering, make certain they know you do NOT want a metal
jacket. Apparently that version is common for motor cycles but does cost
more. You'll like the power to weigh ratio of the Odyssey. I used to use
the 22 lb Concord 25 AH RG, but found the 14 lb Odyssey produced more
cranking power (spun the engine faster/longer).
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 3/31/01 6:27 AM, KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM at KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/31/01 6:18:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ewinne(at)AOL.COM
> writes:
>
>
>> I'll be there, Dennis Persyk says he'll be there- who else is going? and how
>> would we recognize each other? wear convention badges? tattoos on our
>> foreheads? silly grins?
>>
>> Anyway- something to chew on..
>>
>> see ya at Sun-n-Fun!
>>
>> Ed Winne
>> RV-9A
>> Palmyra PA
>>
>
> I'll be there (weather and a few few remaining fly-off hours permitting).
> The easy way to recognize me is I'll be the guy standing hawkishly over the
> white and yellow RV with black and white checkerboard rudder...
>
> Seriously, if you walk the RV flightline, you'll probably recognize 1/3 of
> the names on the propeller placquards. Often, the owner won't be far away.
>
>
> Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
> RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
>
All you listers who are garage bound, make a note.
As of the moment, the green machine will me there from Sun to Weds. It has
a shamrock on the tail and a smiley duck on the nose. Easy to pick out in a
crowd. Looking forward to seeing and talking to all the listers. Please
come see me. I think you should all come see what an RV-6A looks like
after four years of rather hard use. It has never been defeated in judging
competition. (could be because it has never been judged).
My schedule is as firm as a mashed potato sandwich. Coming from Denver
allows for a lot of Weather diversion possibilities.
Denis Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Fuselage F815 to F804 Attach |
Had same problem as you, emailed Van's also.
Their take was basically that this one particular rivet( one on each end
of the F804) does not contribute that much to the overall picture.
Their advice, put in a small rivet as a keeper if possible else not to
worry too much because the side skins and the bottom skins are all
riveted to the F804. and the F815s are all rivited to both the sideskins
and the bottom skins, ergo, the one intersection each side is not a big
deal.
Matter of fact, I had zip edge distance on mine. I ended up cutting a
much bigger hole, kinda a semi circle, out of the corners of the flange
of the F815s.
I did this so the rivet in this position would buck properly to hold the
floorskin to the F804. I was afraid that with no edge distance left the
rib would tear as soon as I would try and buck this rivet. The rivet
would probably come loose then some time in the future. Now I do not
have this worry.
Gert
RV8A putting cover on canoe ;-)
"Vincent S. Himsl" wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> STAGE: Fuselage measuring the F804 to rear spar distance to insure wings
> will fit prior to 'tacking down' the F815 floor rib.
>
> PROBLEM: Though everything lines up, the F815 floor rib flange does not
> tuck under the F804 main carry through spar flange enough to rivet through
> it and still maintain rivet hole to edge(end) clearance.
>
> I have emailed Van's but would like to get working this weekend.
>
> QUESTION: Anyone else been in the same boat, or more accurately the same
> inverted canoe? Your solution?
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vince Himsl
> RV8 Fuselage
> Moscow, ID USA
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
I bet you call a snap-roll a "flick" too ;-)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com\dougr
>
> Chuck,
> A Hammerhead sounds like a Shark! Just different terms for the same
> thing I believeRegards,
> Greg.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Click Patch - was RV4 rudder cracks |
Click patches are little aluminum circles that have come with an epoxy kit
for fixing leaking rivets on Cherokee fuel tanks. They are called clicks
because they are like fabric inspection covers and pop over center. You can
buy them from any aviation supply house. So far they have prevented
propagation on the cracks on my rudder.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com\dougr
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary J. Strong <gstrong(at)qwest.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: Epoxy Click Patch - was RV4 rudder cracks
>
> Doug,
> what is an epoxy click patch?
>
> Gary S. - RV6QB - rudder
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 12:35 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 rudder cracks
>
>
> I have cracks too, I attribute them to hammerheads and full rudder slips.
> The more I did, the more cracks I saw. I fixed mine by stop-drilling them
> and then covering them with epoxy "click" patches for fixing rivet leaks
on
> Cherokee fuel tanks. No problem since......
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> www.petroblend.com\dougr
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Sport Aviation, April, 2001, page16, "Homebuilt Parking at Sun 'n Fun". I
quote:
"Also, canopy covers/tarps are asked to be removed before 9 a.m."
Is that so your canopy can be scratched up along with the rest of the plane?
Are the Sun 'n Fun organizers buying up stock in Micro Mesh? What gives?
When I first read this I though it was an April's Fool joke, but now I think
they are serious! It reinforces my decision to park at Plant City Municipal
where the parking is decidedly more RV-friendly!
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP whose Cleaveland canopy cover is staying on, thank
you!
Hampshire, IL 68IS (C38)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Burch" <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 rudder cracks |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Scott" <gregory.scott1(at)virgin.net>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV4 rudder cracks
>
> Hi Listens,
> My 4 has 170 hrs of flying, some aero's, but limited to loops, aileron
> rolls and stall turns. The problem I have is the rudder skin R401 has
> developed cracks around the forward rivet of all but 1 of the skin
> stiffener angles on the starboard side only
This is pretty normal, unfortunately. I have 400 hrs. of hard acro,
including snaps, and have no
cracks in my .016 skins. I believe that the trick is to build the surface
with no preload. By that
I mean that you need to contour the leadind edge until it stays in place
without pulling it. If you bend that
leading edge and rivet it , the spar acts as a pivot point and preloads the
first rivets.Terry B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and dust, covers etc |
Well, parking elsewhere is certainly an option...but those of us going to
Sun n Fun for the sole reason of seeing the various RV's will certainly be
disappointed. Then again, you spent quite a bit of time building your
plane...why would you want it to get dust on it? God forbid. :-)
Tell you what, I'll even bring the Q-tips so you guys can clean your hanger
queens properly. :-) Ok, I'm kidding...but come on guys...it's once a
year....and I want to see you planes. I'll buy you a beer........
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming RV6A Side Skins |
> Concerning RV6A F-673 Rear Side Skins:
>
> When I built my fuselage I never trimmed the side skins, I let them
overhang
> the last small bulkhead at the tail.
Smart man.
> How much do I let the skin overhang to the rear?
Can you mount, even temporararily, the VS? If so, just make it even with the
skin line of the VS. You may need to trim this after you get the rudder on
to get full rudder travel but probably not. Either way it LOOKS best to have
it even with the VS skin, and generally the VS skin, as built, is likely to
be correct.
> Does this edge later get a row of rivets mating it to the Vertical
> Stabilizer spar?
No.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Question |
Tommy, in some installations the throttle and mixture cables are easier
to route if the box is off center.
This may or may not be a factor with your plane.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
===========================
Tommy Walker wrote:
>
>
> This might seem like a dumb question to some of you RV-listers!? Anyhow, Why
> is the battery mounted "off center" relitive to the battery box base??
> According to the plans its closer to the pilot side than the passenger side!
>
> Tommy in Ridgetop
> 6A Fuselage
> Building battery Box
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery |
>
> Glad to hear another favorable comment on the Odyssey. I am not at all
happy
> with the last two Concords I bought. Mine have started to weaken after the
> first year in service. The last one is just two years old and is showing
> signs of going belly up.
>
> Dave
>
>
Dave,
My first Concord had a cell fail after only 9 months. That, cost and
weight were the reasons I ditched the Concord in favor of the Odyssey. I
have an all electric aircraft and thus have two batteries. The two Concords
weighed 44 lbs, the two Odysseys weight 28 lbs.
> Ed Anderson
> Matthews, NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
What model Odyssey? I wnet to their web site and I couldn't find a 680.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Battery
>
> Glad to hear another favorable comment on the Odyssey. I am not at all
happy
> with the last two Concords I bought. Mine have started to weaken after the
> first year in service. The last one is just two years old and is showing
> signs of going belly up.
>
> Dave
>
>
Dave,
My first Concord had a cell fail after only 9 months. That, cost and
weight were the reasons I ditched the Concord in favor of the Odyssey. I
have an all electric aircraft and thus have two batteries. The two Concords
weighed 44 lbs, the two Odysseys weight 28 lbs.
> Ed Anderson
> Matthews, NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4/6 rudder/elevator cracks |
Bob--
The Super 6, with the IO-540, started developing cracks at the leading
edge rivets of the right side of the rudder and the right elevator. The
cracks slowly grew even tho they were drill stopped and some turned at
right angles after the drill stop hole. The cracks started at about 60
hours and continued to spread thru 240 hrs. When we pulled the skins,
it was evident that the stiffeners ended about 1/2" from the forward
spar instead of 1/8". When the Super 6 was built, the empennage was
bought pre-assembled (with 016 skins) from a reputable builder (two
previous RVs), to save time. The left elevator and left side of the
rudder had the same stiffener defect but developed no cracks.
At first we thought it was the prop wash vibration from the -540 and the
80" prop (as others have noticed, the tail feathers really get to
shakin' during high rpm run-up) but it was oil canning vibration from
the short stiffeners that caused the cracks. Why wasn't the left
elevator/left side of rudder affected??? Was there a prop wash
component putting the right side of the empennage under compression
loads??? Because the cracks were growing I decided not to use an epoxy
patch until the reason for the cracks was better explained.
I am currently installing new elevators and rudder with the 020 skins
and proper stiffener placement.
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> On my RV-6 with almost 100 hours on it, I too have some cracks appearing
> on the forward-most rivet on three stiffeners on the right side. I have
> a dent in the trailing edge of the rudder which was a result of an
> incident when bringing my bird to the airport for final assembly. The
> flat-bed tow truck the fuse was riding on stopped rather suddenly and
> the rudder contacted the light bar on the tow truck. Because of the
> dent (which btw was bugging the sh** out of me), the skin in that area
> would oil-can and that is what I attribute to the cause of the cracks.
> I have a new rudder with .020 skins almost complete...and because the
> skin is heavier I think there will be less tendency for the skins to
> oil-can. Good move on Van's part to make the RV-7 tail feathers out of
> .020; the .016 skins are too thin IMHO and are easily susceptible to
> oil-canning.
>
> I don't think acro causes these cracks to happen; all you have to do to
> see what happens is stand behind a RV during ground runup to see how
> much abuse the tail takes from vibration. I didn't use any RTV or
> proseal or whatever on the new rudder, and kept the distance between the
> stiffeners and rudder spar 1/8"; I didn't deviate from the plans in
> that area because that 1/8" is there for a reason.
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 96 hours
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gregory Scott [mailto:gregory.scott1(at)virgin.net]
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:47 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: RV4 rudder cracks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Listens,
> > My 4 has 170 hrs of flying, some aero's, but limited to loops, aileron
> > rolls and stall turns. The problem I have is the rudder skin R401 has
> > developed cracks around the forward rivet of all but 1 of the skin
> > stiffener angles on the starboard side only. I have a new skin and
> > angle to re- skin the rudder but want to understand where I might have
> > gone wrong. I was going to de-skin my rudder and just fit a new skin
> > but have now ordered the rest of the parts for a complete
> > rudder which I
> > will collect at Sun and Fun.
> > Anyone else had this problem? or know of the cause. I have sometimes
> > side-slipped quite aggressively into our tree lined strip
> > (450 metres)
> > but I don't think that should have caused it.
> > Anyone know of this problem elsewhere or possible cause. I
> > spoke to Ken
> > Scott at Van's and he suggested I use proseal under the
> > stiffeners this
> > time. I think this is sound advice, I will also make sure
> > the clearance
> > between the forward end of the stiffeners and the rudder spar
> > is kept to
> > a minimum. (plans quote 1/8th typical) Any feedback most welcome.
> > Greg Scott RV 4
> > Rudder #2
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy Click Patch - was RV4 rudder cracks |
Ah-ha! This sounds like it will work nicely to fix the leaking fuel tank
rivets on my RV-4.
>
>Click patches are little aluminum circles that have come with an epoxy kit
>for fixing leaking rivets on Cherokee fuel tanks. They are called clicks
>because they are like fabric inspection covers and pop over center. You can
>buy them from any aviation supply house. So far they have prevented
>propagation on the cracks on my rudder.
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <iflygood(at)hotmail.com> |
I have posted one more picture of the hot tips at
http://skywagon.homestead.com/rv8.html
toward the bottom of the page.
It shows a top view of the tip mounted on the wing.
It also shows how to use a ratchet strap to help fit the contour of the tip
to the end of the wing.
See some of you at sun n fun!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery |
>
> What model Odyssey? I wnet to their web site and I couldn't find a 680.
>
> Greg
>
Greg,
Try these web sites for specifications for the PC 680. The 680 comes
either as an "MJ" (Metal Jacket) version or a plain version. No need for MJ
version for aircraft.
http://www.absolutebattery.com/odyssey.htm#serv
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/ody_spec.htm
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Question |
<>
I figured it was for routing of the Throttle and Mixture cables. Thats what I
used the space to the right of the battery for and my cables lined up perfectly
with the Carburator on my O-320
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A (firewall forward)
http://ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Question |
Is this the same for fuel injected engines? I'm planning to use airflow
performance injection on my 6. I'm also going with dual electronic ignitions
and dual batteries so space may get a little dicey around the battery box
area.
Ed Holyoke
6QB
> < is the battery mounted "off center" relitive to the battery box base??
> According to the plans its closer to the pilot side than the passenger
side!>>
>
> I figured it was for routing of the Throttle and Mixture cables. Thats
what I used the space to the right of the battery for and my cables lined up
perfectly with the Carburator on my O-320
>
> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
> RV-6A (firewall forward)
> http://ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Dennis,
Sorry, but I agree with the request to remove the canopy covers. It's silly to
park your airplane in a display area and then cover it up so no one can see it.
If people feel that they must keep their covers on to keep the dust off, then
maybe they should park out with the Cessnas.
Dave
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
> Sport Aviation, April, 2001, page16, "Homebuilt Parking at Sun 'n Fun". I
> quote:
>
> "Also, canopy covers/tarps are asked to be removed before 9 a.m."
>
> Is that so your canopy can be scratched up along with the rest of the plane?
> Are the Sun 'n Fun organizers buying up stock in Micro Mesh? What gives?
>
> When I first read this I though it was an April's Fool joke, but now I think
> they are serious! It reinforces my decision to park at Plant City Municipal
> where the parking is decidedly more RV-friendly!
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP whose Cleaveland canopy cover is staying on, thank
> you!
> Hampshire, IL 68IS (C38)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ENewton57(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
I really hope that all of you will bring your planes to Sun n' Fun. I am building
6A slow build and currently am working on my firewall forward. I am taking
a week of vacation from my job and spending lots of bucks to mainly see some
completed RV's. My wife has been assigned the task of picking out interior
colors and exterior paint scemes and has been waiting all year for Sun n' Fun.
to see the other planes. It took me quite a while to get her interested in this
project that I've been putting all of my spare time and dollars into for the
last year or so. As for me, I want to pick your brain and ask questions adn
of course admire your work.
SO I guess this is an appeal to those of you worried about the dust, the pulling,
the canopy cover rules, and whatever else you find as a reason to go someplace
else. Please come anyway 'cause I want to see your plane.
Thanks in advance from a fellow RVer,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A (Firewall Forward)
http://ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Listers:
I have dabbled in air to air photography just enough to be dangerous. This
came about because I owned a Piper Pacer that was legal to fly with the rear
door removed. I may not be real good, but I believe I have learned a few
things about this art.
1. The main rule is that you MUST use a camera ship that has the capability
of opening or removing a window or removing a door. It is not possible to
get a top quality photo through airplane plexiglass.
2. It takes a lot of good people. More than are normally available.
The camera ship pilot must be steady and smooth. The photographer must have
a good eye and be able to frame a shot well. The pilot of the ship being
photographed must be a reasonable formation pilot. The weather and
background must be suitable to get a truly nice photo.
These requirements make it quite difficult to get a really nice photo of the
airplanes we labored so long on. This is what makes me so appreciative of
an opportunity such as I had today.
Ed Hicks, who has shown himself to be a master, flew over the Atlantic to
Florida and then Texas.
Martin Sutter and Doug Reeves made arrangements (in Texas) for pilots to
come and be photographed by Ed.
Arrangements were made for an excellent pilot (unfortunately I did not get
the full name) with a Cessna 180.
The weather gods arranged for nice puffy cu's down low for a background.
Ed charges $50 and it is the best $50 you will ever spend. He does right
orbits and left orbits and low angle shots and straight on shots and shots
and shots.
I haven't seen the photos of my airplane yet, but from seeing Ed Hick's
photos, I know what I am going to be happy. I flew around 800 or 900 miles
to meet with him and feel like I got off easy.
Anybody who gets this opportunity in the future; I urge you to not pass it
by.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
It may be a good idea not to use a canopy cover at Sun-N-Fun. While I
don't mind some dust on the plane, putting a canopy cover on a dusty
canopy can result in micro-scratches.
My method at flyins is to leave the canopy uncovered if no weather is
expected, or thoroughly wet clean the canopy before installing the
cover.
Lookin' forward to the big shew,
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, N399SB, y'all stop by, ok?)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
======================
Dave Bristol wrote:
>
>
> Dennis,
> Sorry, but I agree with the request to remove the canopy covers. It's silly to
> park your airplane in a display area and then cover it up so no one can see it.
> If people feel that they must keep their covers on to keep the dust off, then
> maybe they should park out with the Cessnas.
>
> Dave
>
> Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
> >
> > Sport Aviation, April, 2001, page16, "Homebuilt Parking at Sun 'n Fun". I
> > quote:
> >
> > "Also, canopy covers/tarps are asked to be removed before 9 a.m."
> >
> > Is that so your canopy can be scratched up along with the rest of the plane?
> > Are the Sun 'n Fun organizers buying up stock in Micro Mesh? What gives?
> >
> > When I first read this I though it was an April's Fool joke, but now I think
> > they are serious! It reinforces my decision to park at Plant City Municipal
> > where the parking is decidedly more RV-friendly!
> >
> > Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP whose Cleaveland canopy cover is staying on, thank
> > you!
> > Hampshire, IL 68IS (C38)
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stafford" <dstafford98(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Question with Air Flow Performance |
Ed,
On my 6QB the throttle runs to the right side of the battery box for Airflow
performance fuel injection with an O-320.
The mixture cable takes a different route and is to the left of the battery.
David Stafford
6QB
>
>Is this the same for fuel injected engines? I'm planning to use airflow
>performance injection on my 6. I'm also going with dual electronic
ignitions
>and dual batteries so space may get a little dicey around the battery box
>area.
>Ed Holyoke
>6QB
>
> Why
>> is the battery mounted "off center" relitive to the battery box base??
>> According to the plans its closer to the pilot side than the passenger
>side!>>
>>
>> I figured it was for routing of the Throttle and Mixture cables. Thats
>what I used the space to the right of the battery for and my cables lined
up
>perfectly with the Carburator on my O-320
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Bending the main longeron for an RV8 |
OK guys,
I checked the archives but didn't find a reference for this so I'll ask.
Drawing 20 lower left shows the measurements for bending the main
longerons. The top view "AA" show the bends at 80 15/16 inches in from the
front at F807 Bulkhead. Which indicated the longerons bend in from there.
The side view shows a bend at 33 7/8 from the front at F807! CAN'T BE!!
Should that be the front of F804C? You'd think this would have been
corrected by now so I have to ask to make sure I'm not missing something
else!
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Air to Air
Listers:
I have dabbled in air to air photography just enough to be dangerous. This
came about because I owned a Piper Pacer that was legal to fly with the rear
door removed. I may not be real good, but I believe I have learned a few
things about this art.
1. The main rule is that you MUST use a camera ship that has the capability
of opening or removing a window or removing a door. It is not possible to
get a top quality photo through airplane plexiglass.
2. It takes a lot of good people. More than are normally available.
The camera ship pilot must be steady and smooth. The photographer must have
a good eye and be able to frame a shot well. The pilot of the ship being
photographed must be a reasonable formation pilot. The weather and
background must be suitable to get a truly nice photo.
These requirements make it quite difficult to get a really nice photo of the
airplanes we labored so long on. This is what makes me so appreciative of
an opportunity such as I had today.
Ed Hicks, who has shown himself to be a master, flew over the Atlantic to
Florida and then Texas.
Martin Sutter and Doug Reeves made arrangements (in Texas) for pilots to
come and be photographed by Ed.
Arrangements were made for an excellent pilot (unfortunately I did not get
the full name) with a Cessna 180.
The weather gods arranged for nice puffy cu's down low for a background.
Ed charges $50 and it is the best $50 you will ever spend. He does right
orbits and left orbits and low angle shots and straight on shots and shots
and shots.
I haven't seen the photos of my airplane yet, but from seeing Ed Hick's
photos, I know what I am going to be happy. I flew around 800 or 900 miles
to meet with him and feel like I got off easy.
Anybody who gets this opportunity in the future; I urge you to not pass it
by.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Gelber <mgelber(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Bending the main longeron for an RV8 |
Bob-
There's two bends- the one you're wondering about bends up (as jigged) at
804.
Matthew
-8A fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Di Meo
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bending the main longeron for an RV8
OK guys,
I checked the archives but didn't find a reference for this so I'll ask.
Drawing 20 lower left shows the measurements for bending the main
longerons. The top view "AA" show the bends at 80 15/16 inches in from the
front at F807 Bulkhead. Which indicated the longerons bend in from there.
The side view shows a bend at 33 7/8 from the front at F807! CAN'T BE!!
Should that be the front of F804C? You'd think this would have been
corrected by now so I have to ask to make sure I'm not missing something
else!
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Air to Air
Listers:
I have dabbled in air to air photography just enough to be dangerous. This
came about because I owned a Piper Pacer that was legal to fly with the rear
door removed. I may not be real good, but I believe I have learned a few
things about this art.
1. The main rule is that you MUST use a camera ship that has the capability
of opening or removing a window or removing a door. It is not possible to
get a top quality photo through airplane plexiglass.
2. It takes a lot of good people. More than are normally available.
The camera ship pilot must be steady and smooth. The photographer must have
a good eye and be able to frame a shot well. The pilot of the ship being
photographed must be a reasonable formation pilot. The weather and
background must be suitable to get a truly nice photo.
These requirements make it quite difficult to get a really nice photo of the
airplanes we labored so long on. This is what makes me so appreciative of
an opportunity such as I had today.
Ed Hicks, who has shown himself to be a master, flew over the Atlantic to
Florida and then Texas.
Martin Sutter and Doug Reeves made arrangements (in Texas) for pilots to
come and be photographed by Ed.
Arrangements were made for an excellent pilot (unfortunately I did not get
the full name) with a Cessna 180.
The weather gods arranged for nice puffy cu's down low for a background.
Ed charges $50 and it is the best $50 you will ever spend. He does right
orbits and left orbits and low angle shots and straight on shots and shots
and shots.
I haven't seen the photos of my airplane yet, but from seeing Ed Hick's
photos, I know what I am going to be happy. I flew around 800 or 900 miles
to meet with him and feel like I got off easy.
Anybody who gets this opportunity in the future; I urge you to not pass it
by.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers
>
>Dennis,
>Sorry, but I agree with the request to remove the canopy covers. It's silly
to
>park your airplane in a display area and then cover it up so no one can see
it.
>If people feel that they must keep their covers on to keep the dust off,
then
>maybe they should park out with the Cessnas.
>
>Dave
>
You have a good point, Dave. Were it not for the many RV owners who
displayed their planes at Sun n Fun, I would not have been as inspired as I
was to push on with the building. Many proud owners spent lots of time
answering many questions my wife and I asked about building. Many owners
let us sit in their planes to see how they felt and fit. To these generous
souls I owe a lot. I am sorry that I will not display my plane there this
year to repay the favors.
But my hangar is open frequently to visitors who want to see my RV and ask
questions or learn how to rivet. I have started quite a few builders on the
road to RV building and hope to start more.
Dennis Persyk N600DP 59 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM |
Any listers out there who have a
Vans constant speed cowl for a
RV4? I need a replacement for a
screwed up one.
Stewart RV4 273sb
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 rudder cracks |
pardon my lack of knowledge, but what is a "click patch"?
Earl RV4
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> I have cracks too, I attribute them to hammerheads and full rudder slips.
> The more I did, the more cracks I saw. I fixed mine by stop-drilling them
> and then covering them with epoxy "click" patches for fixing rivet leaks on
> Cherokee fuel tanks. No problem since......
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> www.petroblend.com\dougr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 rudder cracks
>
> >
> > >The problem I have is the rudder skin R401 has
> > > developed cracks around the forward rivet of all but 1 of the skin
> > > stiffener angles on the starboard side only.
> >
> > I believe the problem of skin cracking at the ends of the stiffeners can
> be
> > reduced if the stiffeners are made "less stiff" towards their ends. By
> > this, I mean tapering the flange of the angle, the flange perpendicular
> to
> > the skin, down to zero at the ends. Do this over the last 2" or so of
> each
> > end of the stiffeners. A side view of the flange perpendicular to the
> skin
> > would have a trapezoidal shape. I suspect that if the stiffeners are
> fully
> > "stiff" right up to their ends, they tend to really concentrate the
> movement
> > of the skin right at their ends. The same goes for the stiffeners on the
> > fuel tank skins.
> >
> > Alex Peterson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <iflygood(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Dennis, when you get to sun n fun, be sure to give a big THANK YOU to the
owner of every airplane you look at. If everyone was like you, there would
be no sun n fun.
John Huft
>From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers
>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:15:00 -0800
>
>
>Dennis,
>Sorry, but I agree with the request to remove the canopy covers. It's silly
>to
>park your airplane in a display area and then cover it up so no one can see
>it.
>If people feel that they must keep their covers on to keep the dust off,
>then
>maybe they should park out with the Cessnas.
>
>Dave
>
>Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Sport Aviation, April, 2001, page16, "Homebuilt Parking at Sun 'n Fun".
>I
> > quote:
> >
> > "Also, canopy covers/tarps are asked to be removed before 9 a.m."
> >
> > Is that so your canopy can be scratched up along with the rest of the
>plane?
> > Are the Sun 'n Fun organizers buying up stock in Micro Mesh? What
>gives?
> >
> > When I first read this I though it was an April's Fool joke, but now I
>think
> > they are serious! It reinforces my decision to park at Plant City
>Municipal
> > where the parking is decidedly more RV-friendly!
> >
> > Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP whose Cleaveland canopy cover is staying on,
>thank
> > you!
> > Hampshire, IL 68IS (C38)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)alum.mit.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-8 project for sale with IO-360 |
This RV-8 has all the sheet metal done, and now needs engine
installation, panel, and canopy to finish. IO-360 is a first runout from
a Mooney. Also included are a new AyarsDemuth wood prop, and some used
instruments and radios. It's worth $38K, but I need the space and can
give somebody a real good price. I've also got all the ramps and such
you need to get it onto a truck.
Ed Wischmeyer
near Seattle
425 898-9856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
I'm just a lowly builder, and what do I know...but if it were me....there is
no way I would keep a cover, on my canopy with blowing dust and sand. It
gets under that canopy cover and becomes sandpaper held against the canopy
while the wind blows it back and forth. Same reasoning for why most of us
laugh at guys who put bras on the front of their cars. Trying to save the
paint, but not thinking it through.
Bill
-4 wings (wont have a cover on them at sun n fun :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Can you believe this guy? Typical of the "ME"generation all for me none for
you.
Don
RV6 N767DC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
Not the kind you land on but the kind you point down hill with your
feet in 'em!!
What kind of mods have been done for carrying a pair of snow skis in
an RV? I'm about to order a 7 emp. kit and would like to know that I
can fly it to the mountains and not have to suffer the indignity of
renting skis.....
--Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cinelogic inc.
(818)772-4777
fax 772-4733
sam(at)videoassist.com
http://www.videoassist.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | RV-7 Demonstrator |
Interesting that Van decided to build a taildragger with a tipper for
his first demonstrator of this new model.
After all the nosewheel verses tailwheel I guess we know where his heart
is....
Dave Burton
RV6 (A, probably)
wings, near Seattle
Anybody want to get back into the primer discussion?
Happy April fools day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | noeldrew <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy |
Heinrich,
After at least 3 attempts at sealing my side skirts I now have a
satisfactory solution. Find some 1" diameter polyethylene shrink tubing
that has a matt surface on the outside. I suspect this is made by Raychem.
The matt surface is important for gluing with contact adhesive as
polyethylene is usually notoriously difficult to glue. The radiation
treatment in making shrink tubing solves this problem.
Cut off 1/4" from the flattened tube leaving yourself with a length of
suitably creased V section of plastic. Glue one face to the slider rail and
the V will sit tidily against the rail until you fly when the leak of air
down the skirt will drive down the flap to the outside.
The rear end of the V must remain inside skirt when the canopy is open so it
is guided inwards as the canopy is closed. Mine works perfectly.
Hope this helps.
Noel Drew
Durban, South Africa
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Heinrich Gerhardt <hgerhardt(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: 30 March 2001 08:31
Subject: RV-List: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy
>
> Has anyone figured out an elegant way to seal the side skirts of a sliding
> canopy RV-6? I'm thinking about a rubber-felt weatherstrip (like at the
> base of a side window in a car), mounted on the side of the slider rail
> contacting the skirt on the inside.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
>
> Can you believe this guy? Typical of the "ME"generation all for me none
for
> you.
> Don
I don't think that there is a right or wrong here. Dennis has
contributed a lot to the list and to other local builders. If he doesn't
want to display his plane at the appalling conditions on that "desert storm"
display ground at Sun n' Fun that's his choice.
It has been wetter there this year in Florida and I hope the grass is
in a little better shape. The dirt there last year was incredible. Tracy
Sailor stood beside his plane the whole time he was there wiping dirt off.
(Haven't heard much from Tracy lately???)
I made my decision to build an RV because of my visit to Sun n' Fun
years ago, at Van's booth...not on the display ground. I went there to
look at the Europa and was unimpressed.
Dave Burton
RV6A, wings
near Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Dave Burton Said:
I made my decision to build an RV because of my visit to Sun n' Fun
years ago, at Van's booth...not on the display ground. I went there to
look at the Europa and was unimpressed.
And I'm sure if you wont go to the flight line and see just how the other guy
did it or get some ideas. You'll go to Van's tent.
Right!!!!
Same guy as before
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | RV-7 Demonstrator |
I have a feeling Van is a conventional kind of guy - maybe that's why he
went with conventional landing gear :)
Regardless of pro's & con's with trigear vs. tailwheel (I don't want to
start anything), I think the taildragger looks sharper and may be a better
marketing scheme for posters/brochures etc.
As Terry Jantzi once told me: "Even on the ground, in the hangar, it looks
like it goes 250 mph already". I couldn't agree more. The RV-6 taildragger
is one sharp looking airplane! Trigear may be more practial for some but I
still think the taildragger looks nicer.
Although my personal preference is still the RV-8 with it's centerline
seating, I must admit the RV-7 pictures that Van's posted (paintjob
included) are very entizing.
Just my opinion of course.
Are
RV-8 Left wing (Left fuel tank finished!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Burton
Sent: April 1, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Demonstrator
Interesting that Van decided to build a taildragger with a tipper for
his first demonstrator of this new model.
After all the nosewheel verses tailwheel I guess we know where his heart
is....
Dave Burton
RV6 (A, probably)
wings, near Seattle
Anybody want to get back into the primer discussion?
Happy April fools day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
I don't know where you get your info...but it's been far from wet here.
Though we've had LOTS of rain the last several days...we are in a water
crisis.
Lakes that have been here my whole life are dried completely up, retention
ponds are dry. Friends of mine on lakes don't have water within 20ft of
what used to be a chest deep boat dock. We've had so little rain for the
last few years its incredible.
If you're expecting less dust than last year.....think again. Come here for
the sun, come for the people, come for the RV's but don't come looking to
stay out of the dust.....regardless of what airport you park at.
Bill
-4 wings
Orlando
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers
>
>
> >
> > Can you believe this guy? Typical of the "ME"generation all for me none
> for
> > you.
> > Don
>
> I don't think that there is a right or wrong here. Dennis has
> contributed a lot to the list and to other local builders. If he doesn't
> want to display his plane at the appalling conditions on that "desert
storm"
> display ground at Sun n' Fun that's his choice.
>
> It has been wetter there this year in Florida and I hope the grass is
> in a little better shape. The dirt there last year was incredible. Tracy
> Sailor stood beside his plane the whole time he was there wiping dirt off.
> (Haven't heard much from Tracy lately???)
>
> I made my decision to build an RV because of my visit to Sun n' Fun
> years ago, at Van's booth...not on the display ground. I went there to
> look at the Europa and was unimpressed.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A, wings
> near Seattle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6A tail kit for sale. |
RV6A tail kit for sale.
Inventoried only.
$1000 firm.
email @ wlpmap(at)aol.com
Thank you.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Question |
> This might seem like a dumb question to some of you RV-listers!? Anyhow,
Why
> is the battery mounted "off center" relitive to the battery box base??
> According to the plans its closer to the pilot side than the passenger
side!
Mine is right in the center but it is one of the smaller new batteries. I
built a 063 plate with angle on the sides to join the entire center floor
section from the spar to the firewall. This serves as a place to mount the
fuel valve pedestal, then two halon fire extinguishers side by side, then at
the front my new small custom battery box. The plate is mated with nutplates
down both sides. I was going to mount the battery box with Camlocks but
clearance issues made me mount it with machines screws into nutplates. I've
painted everything white and it looks good. Plenty of legroom. I should send
a photo to Doug for Builders Mods.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
Stewart:
How did you "screw-up" so bad that it is not repairable? I cut mine too
short at the firewall on one side but added some fiberglass cloth and
ground it off to fit flush and it came out just fine. Then I cut the
side joining surfaces two short on one side of the bottom cowl and
repaired it again. Then I screwed up the area behind the prop and by
then i could work the cloth pretty good and it is repaired. Now I have
decided to go with the Sam James plenum and will be cutting the entire
front area off (air cooling induction area) and will re due that.
So......, I am curious as to how you screwed up so bad. If I can screw
it up and reclaim it then you will have no problem with it. I was a
fiberglass phobic after dealing with metal for so many years. Now I
actually enjoy the fiberglass for the forgiving nature of it. Go ahead
an tell us how you screwed up!!!!!!! I'll bet you aren't that bad!
Good Luck
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
Cowling in progress
RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Any listers out there who have a
> Vans constant speed cowl for a
> RV4? I need a replacement for a
> screwed up one.
> Stewart RV4 273sb
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted approximately
1 1/2 inch in diameter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
Todd,
Aircraft Spruce, Page 478. $49.95, last year's catalogue.
Keith Hughes
RV-6, Fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Wiechman <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!!
>
> Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
> painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted
approximately
> 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy |
> Has anyone figured out an elegant way to seal the side skirts of a
> sliding canopy RV-6? I'm thinking about a rubber-felt weatherstrip
> (like at the base of a side window in a car), mounted on the side of
> the slider rail contacting the skirt on the inside.
There's an old RVator article that describes the use of a bicycle inner
tube, split open and attached to the slider rail. You can find the article
in "16 Years of the RVator."
I used a racing inner tube, and it worked pretty well. I attached it to
the slider rail with carpet tape, which is very sticky and double sided.
Dramatic reduction in the amount of air that leaks out of the side of the
canopy.
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <brucegray(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
Lancair has them for $47 each.
Bruce
Todd Wiechman wrote:
>
> Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
> painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted approximately
> 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
>Dennis, when you get to sun n fun, be sure to give a big THANK
>YOU to the owner of every airplane you look at. If everyone was
>like you, there would be no sun n fun.
Fellas, felllas, fellas.
Here you go picking on someone who is a regular contributor and
has given you much help along the way. Dennis has his opinions
about how his airplane should be treated at a fly-in and should stick
to his guns about his feelings. Maybe some who are out there
cutting him down need finish their RVs and put them on a few fly-in
lines before you make judgement on anyone else. You just might
change your tune a tad.
As for me, I'm not bringing my RV-6A to FL. I'm coming down in a
RV-737. Why? It's more convenient to do so. Each time I've been
to Sun-n-Fun in the past, I've had to do the logistics of going, plan
and fly around weather systems, worry that my travel companion is
having a good time, and not really having as good a time as I could
have had if someone else had done the logistics, etc. This time, Pat
Patterson and I are doing as little of that as possible. Our RVs will be
parked at home. We'll have a car so that we can come and go as
we please, no motel since we're staying at his home nearby, and no
worries about how people are treating our precious RVs. For some
reason, I think this is going to be my best trip to Sun-n-Fun, yet.
Before you guys start bashing me to give Dennis a rest, I should
admit that it was my dream to take my RV to Sun-n-Fun. I'd never go
to Oshkosh because I'm down on the EAA and dropped my
membership in it; but, Sun-n-Fun was to be my mecca. Last year, I
had my RV in the shop for paint and couldn't go. This year, I've
decided it isn't worth it. What with all of the problems we encounter
by leaving our birds at the big shows, which I have done before with
my Cheetah, it isn't what I want to do. Yeah, I intend to show my
airplane at all of the local fly-ins I can so that other builders can get
those precious photos Iike I've wanted in the past when I was
building mine; but, I no longer desire to do Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh. If
that bothers some of you, that's just too bad. You'll get over it.
Fly-ins can be mighty rough on our airplanes, even the small ones.
I've seen some stuff at them that scares the heck out of me. For
some reason, people don't have much respect for the property of
others, anymore. It's not uncommon for someone to bring his pride
and joy home with damage. Still, I take mine to show it off, when I
can. I'm not sure I can handle leaving mine on a flight line for more
than one day, like I did with my Cheetah at Sun-n-Fun in 1991. I
worried about it a lot when it was there. I'm sort of relieved that I've
allowed myself to be talked out of taking the RV to Sun-n-Fun, this
time.
As for those of you who are worried about photos, I can assure you
there will be plenty to photo, even if some of us leave our birds at
home or nearby airports. For that matter, cruise to the nearby airports
to find more RVs! There are plenty around. When I was flying my
Cheetah to Winterhaven, there were always several RVs there. Just
take the time to go find them instead of whining about not having
them at your fingertips at Lakeland. That way, everyone will be
happier.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: documents for sale of homebuilt |
Here is the FAA's registry website with the bill of sale and the
registration forms. For the liability release I would recommend you get
with your lawyer. There is no standard document that I know of.
http://registry.faa.gov/frame.htm
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV list
>Subject: RV-List: documents for sale of homebuilt
>Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:21:40 -0600
>
>
>
>Can anyone point me toward online versions of a/c bill of
>sale & liability release? (Yes, I understand the futility)
>
>I just spent about 15 minutes trying to search the EAA's
>'members only' section & all I could get in search results
>were appeals for my money.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
In a message dated 4/1/01 11:41:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
> painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted approximately
> 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
>
>
>
I think they are used in motor homes. I found mine at an auto
air conditioning shop.
Fred LaForge RV-4 180 CS EAA tech counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Boy that was along winded e-mail to try to explain why your more selfish and
self centered than Dennis. And..... "Maybe" hinting the rest of us that do
fly in are not too bright. Many of us I'm sure can fly Commercial if we
wished, but elect to participate rather than criticize the event. Do you wear
a mask as you peruse the parked RV's there.
Same Guy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Come on guys..this is getting a bit too heated up for an email list don't
you think? Bring your plane, don't bring your plane, cover it or
don't...wear long pants or shorts, sunscreen or sunblock...hey, I won't lose
a minutes sleep over it.
Just so you know though, sunblock is for sissy tri-gear pilots who use too
much primer, park their planes in plant city, use canopy covers inside their
hangers and wear dark socks with short pants. So there. :-)
Sun n Fun is almost here, and I'm getting excited!!! woohoooooo. Hey
Eric, still interested in taking that welding workshop?
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
Has anyone tried or know the results of an EZ trim
altitude hold. Sell's for $250.???
Joe/RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
[ vultute mode on]
I see another victim being made for my proposed virtual wall of
rememberance, dedicated to all good guys pestered off of this list
because they said what was on their mind.
[vulture mode off]
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
Thanks alot for the input Mike, West Systems seems to be the unanimous choice
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
In a message dated 4/1/01 11:41:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted approximately
1 1/2 inch in diameter. >>
The little ones are available from ACS and others. The bigger ones are from
Harmon Engineering. They are expensive, which is why most use the
Whisperflow plastic ones.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy |
In a message dated 4/1/01 10:34:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com writes:
<< After at least 3 attempts at sealing my side skirts I now have a
satisfactory solution. Find some 1" diameter polyethylene shrink tubing
that has a matte surface on the outside. I suspect this is made by Raychem.
>>
Actually this tubing is generally radiation crosslinked polyolefin, not
polyethylene.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
Sorry about that last post, thought it went directly to Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
I drilled the tank skin to ribs, baffle and spar. I plan to countersink the
skins last row of rivets that attach to the baffle and the two rows that take
the #19 screws (skin). I also plan to countersink the baffle and the two rows
(#19 screws) on the spar web. Actually I plan to countersink everything in
these 3 areas. I will dimple the platenut holes on the spar that take the
3/32 rivets.
Question 1. Correct or not?
I bought the tank dimple dies from Cleveland just for the tanks. I will use
these on the rest of the tank skin. I assume I should use the dies on the
ribs and stiffeners also.
Question 2. Correct or not?
Any other tips I would appreciate. Thanks, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | AVweb article about Van's RV-7 and RV-10 |
Here's something from AVweb. Looks like some of it is true and some is...
well, false. Of course, it _is_ April fools day today :)
Are
RV-8
AVfalsch Vol. 7, Issue 13c Sunday, March 32, 2001
Welcome to AVfalsch, an annual summary of the latest aviation
news, rumors, innuendoes, half-truths and outright falsehoods
featured on AVweb, the Internet's aviation magazine and news
service at <http://www.avweb.com>.
**********************************************************"
VAN'S EXPANDS: Hot on the heels of the RV-7/7A expected to make its
airshow debut at Sun 'n Fun next month, Van's Aircraft executives this
week shared with AVweb details of another new aircraft from the company:
The RV-10. In contrast to the RV-7/7A, the RV-10 will be a "clean sheet
of paper" design with long, tapered wings. It will be powered by a
ceramic turboprop engine that is still super-secret. The new four-place
airplane will cruise at 300 KTAS in the mid 20,000-foot range.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
>Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are aluminum and not
>painted black or grey.....
I got two at OSH several years ago in the Fly Mart. You have to know where
to look and look early. If you can wait that long. I won't tell you what I
paid for them cuz it would make you crazy. Less than $20 each. I have mine
panel mounted and wouldn't have them any other way.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Well vented..............what ever that means
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric elevator trim |
Anybody,
I purchased a preowned -6 empanage kit for a reasonable price. ( well
actually now that im switching to the -7 and need to rebuild the vert stab
and rudder it's hasn't turned out to be all that reasonable) and included in
the kit is the electric trim option. I guess my question is, how relieble are
they? Has anybody ever had the switch fail? Ive been in the right seat of a
King air 90 that had both electric and manual trim, and a King air 100 that
only had electric trim. We didn't have a problem, but I know that at 230+
knots it would only take about three seconds with a "run away trim" to have a
very bad day. Any thoughts ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'n Fun and Canopy Covers |
Well Said...........I love you man!! :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
I got a pair from Lancair. They are a little smaller than the black plastic
ones that come with the fuse kit. I plan on putting one on each side of the
panel. I'm still looking for a single bigger one to put in the back. There
is a close-up picture of the small vents on my website, fuse section.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Todd Wiechman
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 6:39 PM
> To: rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!!
>
>
> Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are
> aluminum and not
> painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted
> approximately
> 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A tail kit for sale. |
Where are you located?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: AVweb article about Van's RV-7 and RV-10 |
At least it was more promising than...
Van's Aircraft to Close
Shocked workers were called to a company meeting at Van's aircraft in
Oregon, only to be told that the firm was closing its doors.
"I've fulfilled my mission," Dick "Van" VanGrunsven told us, in an
exclusive ANN interview. "Everyone who wants an RV has one. I never
really fit in in the kit plane industry anyway. I can't even stretch a
specification or fudge a delivery date with a straight face. Some of the
other guys have been baggin' on me cause I do stuff like build and fly
prototypes before selling kits, and I actually test my machines. I can't
help it. It's the way I learned to do engineering."
Other kit plane impresarios echoed Van's statements. "He was really
giving all of us a bad name," another vendor, who asked not to be named,
told us.
"He's basically just a loser," said another. "He doesn't even have a
Swiss bank account. How can you sell kits without a Swiss numbered
account? He just has stuff like, this weird engineering degree, and this
ethical Boy Scout nonsense from the Fifties or something."
"He's overrated anyway," Jim Bede told us.
"In all these years he's only made it up to nine designs, and here I am
at 17. You tell me who's the better designer!"
"Van" has taken a new position on the board of Boeing (see related
story).
FMI: http://www.vansaircraft.com
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: AVweb article about Van's RV-7 and RV-10
>
> Here's something from AVweb. Looks like some of it is true and some
is...
> well, false. Of course, it _is_ April fools day today :)
>
> Are
> RV-8
>
> AVfalsch Vol. 7, Issue 13c Sunday, March 32,
2001
>
> Welcome to AVfalsch, an annual summary of the latest aviation
> news, rumors, innuendoes, half-truths and outright falsehoods
> featured on AVweb, the Internet's aviation magazine and news
> service at <http://www.avweb.com>.
>
> **********************************************************"
>
> VAN'S EXPANDS: Hot on the heels of the RV-7/7A expected to make its
> airshow debut at Sun 'n Fun next month, Van's Aircraft executives
this
> week shared with AVweb details of another new aircraft from the
company:
> The RV-10. In contrast to the RV-7/7A, the RV-10 will be a "clean
sheet
> of paper" design with long, tapered wings. It will be powered by a
> ceramic turboprop engine that is still super-secret. The new
four-place
> airplane will cruise at 300 KTAS in the mid 20,000-foot range.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A tail kit for sale. |
I am in Jeffersonville, Indiana. That's just across the river from
Louisville, Ky.
Let me know if you need any additional information.
Regards,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
My flying RV-4 is 8 years olds and has 540 hours with the MAC electric trim.
It has been 100% trouble free. The trim rate is very slow and I'm sure a
runaway would be quite controllable. It has been tested and flown with the
trim in full up and full nose down configurations and, while being a
handful, was certainly controllable.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
N464EM
>
> Anybody,
> I purchased a preowned -6 empanage kit for a reasonable price. ( well
> actually now that im switching to the -7 and need to rebuild the vert stab
> and rudder it's hasn't turned out to be all that reasonable) and included
in
> the kit is the electric trim option. I guess my question is, how relieble
are
> they? Has anybody ever had the switch fail? Ive been in the right seat of
a
> King air 90 that had both electric and manual trim, and a King air 100
that
> only had electric trim. We didn't have a problem, but I know that at 230+
> knots it would only take about three seconds with a "run away trim" to
have a
> very bad day. Any thoughts ??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
Kdh347(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Anybody,
> I purchased a preowned -6 empanage kit for a reasonable price. ( well
> actually now that im switching to the -7 and need to rebuild the vert stab
> and rudder it's hasn't turned out to be all that reasonable) and included in
> the kit is the electric trim option. I guess my question is, how relieble are
> they? Has anybody ever had the switch fail? Ive been in the right seat of a
> King air 90 that had both electric and manual trim, and a King air 100 that
> only had electric trim. We didn't have a problem, but I know that at 230+
> knots it would only take about three seconds with a "run away trim" to have a
> very bad day. Any thoughts ??
>
I would not leave home without my electric trim after having had both
in my RV-6. If you are worried about a runaway trim I think that there are
articles in the archives that cover this topic and how to prevent it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
There is lots in the archive on using these dies. I used them on the tanks
and underlying structure only. They worked great for me, but another local
builder liked the standard dies. Not a lot of difference, I think I measured
.007 difference in the depth of the dimple with the tank dies. I smeered
sealant on the dimple before inserting the rivets because I'm anal
retentive. Anyway, the tanks passed my manometer leak test.
Marty in Brentwood, TN RV6A Fuselage
More Fuselage Dimples that I can count
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched)
>
>
> I drilled the tank skin to ribs, baffle and spar. I plan to countersink
the
> skins last row of rivets that attach to the baffle and the two rows that
take
> the #19 screws (skin). I also plan to countersink the baffle and the two
rows
> (#19 screws) on the spar web. Actually I plan to countersink everything in
> these 3 areas. I will dimple the platenut holes on the spar that take the
> 3/32 rivets.
> Question 1. Correct or not?
> I bought the tank dimple dies from Cleveland just for the tanks. I will
use
> these on the rest of the tank skin. I assume I should use the dies on the
> ribs and stiffeners also.
> Question 2. Correct or not?
> Any other tips I would appreciate. Thanks, Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
Hey Bob,you shouldnt have to countersink the baffle. The skin should but not
the baffle
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched)
>
>
> I drilled the tank skin to ribs, baffle and spar. I plan to countersink
the
> skins last row of rivets that attach to the baffle and the two rows that
take
> the #19 screws (skin). I also plan to countersink the baffle and the two
rows
> (#19 screws) on the spar web. Actually I plan to countersink everything in
> these 3 areas. I will dimple the platenut holes on the spar that take the
> 3/32 rivets.
> Question 1. Correct or not?
> I bought the tank dimple dies from Cleveland just for the tanks. I will
use
> these on the rest of the tank skin. I assume I should use the dies on the
> ribs and stiffeners also.
> Question 2. Correct or not?
> Any other tips I would appreciate. Thanks, Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
Mark, There is a row of about 16 screws that go into the baffle. Are you
saying they do not get countered either? I understand the rivets do not. Yes,
the headset would be handy. How about the spar web with the last or aft row
of screws? It appears to me that the web would be countered or dimpled. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Is hardware store grade aluminum tubing good enough to make the fuel vent
lines out of? That's what I have in there now. Not too late to rip 'em out
and replace with the tubing that Van's sells. Don't want to if I don't have
to, though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
> I drilled the tank skin to ribs, baffle and spar.
Did you drill to the spar prior to ensuring the final fit? I waited until
after my tanks were completely built (sealed and assembled). There is some
final trimming to do to ensure the tank skins match the LE skin and the top
and bottom main skins. If you drill the skins to the spar during the
initial fitting process there is little you can do to ensure that everything
fits in the end. Not much you can do about it now though.
I plan to countersink the
> skins last row of rivets that attach to the baffle
Correct.
and the two rows that take
> the #19 screws (skin). I also plan to countersink the baffle and the two
rows
> (#19 screws) on the spar web. Actually I plan to countersink everything in
> these 3 areas.
Do not countersink the last row on the skin, that should be dimpled.
Instead of trying to dimple the spar flange you should be countersinking
those and using the K1100-08 countersunk nut plates.
I will dimple the platenut holes on the spar that take the
> 3/32 rivets.
Countersink the the locations for the 3/32 rivets. If you dimple the spar
flange (first of all it difficult) then the plate nuts will not sit flush.
> Question 1. Correct or not?
> I bought the tank dimple dies from Cleveland just for the tanks. I will
use
> these on the rest of the tank skin. I assume I should use the dies on the
> ribs and stiffeners also.
Correct. I used the tank dies. I did some comparison with the tank dies and
standard dies and I'm convinced the result with the tank dies is much better
and more consistent.
> Question 2. Correct or not?
> Any other tips I would appreciate. Thanks, Bob
Take a look at drawing 18 (assuming you're building a -6) on the top left of
the page. The instructions are very clear here as to what should be
countersunk and what should be dimpled. If you do it the way you described,
I think you will not like the result.
I'm avaliable to chat about this. Go to my website and click on the "chat
icon" in the upper left corner of the home page. I just finished mounting
my tanks last night so I'm well versed on this area for the -6.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Skis? (RV-6,7) |
> What kind of mods have been done for carrying a pair of snow skis in
> an RV? I'm about to order a 7 emp. kit and would like to know that I
> can fly it to the mountains and not have to suffer the indignity of
> renting skis.....
Have you seen my ski rack/luggage compartment in my RV6A?
Goto:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/BuilderMods/NormanHunger/luggagecompartment
_skirack.htm
Article and photos hosted by Doug Reeves.
This is more of a utility luggage comparment for skis, snowboards, golf
clubs, and camping gear.
It is completely sealed off from the fuselage interior. Surprisingly enough,
the C of G of a long pair of skis is only 18 inches further aft of the
luggage C of G. I crunched the numbers before I did mine and found that any
body with the CS prop should be OK. I'm not flying yet but when I do it's
going to be a non-stop party!!!
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
Bob, check out my web to see some additional pictures of what we're talking
about here.
http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_tanks_assembly2.htm#MountingTheTanks
I've also added a couple of pictures of what a leaking tank looks like for
those that might be interested.
http://www.bmnellis.com/wings_tanks_assembly3.htm#TankLeaks
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)N
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
Prepping Top Main Wing Skins for riveting
http://bmnellis.com
>
> Mark, There is a row of about 16 screws that go into the baffle. Are you
> saying they do not get countered either? I understand the rivets do not.
Yes,
> the headset would be handy. How about the spar web with the last or aft
row
> of screws? It appears to me that the web would be countered or dimpled.
Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR EVEBALL VENTS!! |
> > Does anybody know where to get the eyeball vents that are
> > aluminum and not
> > painted black or grey? These are intended to be panel mounted
> > approximately
> > 1 1/2 inch in diameter.
I got the bigger aluminum ones from John Harmon. Big bucks but they are
works of art. Shipped quick.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Skis? (RV-6,7) |
If that didn't work try:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/BuilderMods.htm
then click the first one.
Norman Hunger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | To fly-in or not to fly-in... |
Guys...
All the debate about flying in or not that was started by poor Dennis
indicates that there are flaws in the system used at Sun-n-Fun. Remember last
year when there was the debate about who should be allowed on the flight line
in Lakeland and Oshkosh? The owners of planes that had been there were really
concerned about non-flyers and family members causing damage in their
unconcern and ignorance. This is a valid concern. A paint job is a terrible
thing to waste!
How do we address this? First, talk to the Sun-n-Fun folks and try to figure
out an alternative way or place to display. Don't know how far we'd get. In
the meantime, How about if we post a list somewhere (Van's tent?) of who is
parked at alternative airports, with a daily "caravan time" so those of us
with rented cars can connect with the builders, load up our cars with
BUILDERS, and go see the excellent workmanship of those who are too shy or
too careful to be on the main display line. I'll have a car there, and I'll
volunteer to drive a couple folks if we can get this together.
Dennis, if I spot you roaming the grounds, I'll ask if there's a good time to
go look at your bird, and I'll also ask if you mind!
Ed Winne
RV-9A empennage (wings in box)
Palmyra PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: checkerboard painting |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/02/2001 07:56:46 AM
Hey Guys, I'm getting ready to do that. If you notice most stripes painted
on a leading edge endup being pulled to a point somewhere near the center
of the l/e. This usually results in a downward swoop to the point in the
last 1/2 inch. I'm going to try to avoid this. In order to make myself a
cheater tool I'm cutting a leading edge shaped piece of wood that will
extend back about a foot on the l/e. This is the same piece of wood you
used as a clamp to hold the vs skin on in the jig to drill it (old kits). I
hold this level and use a soft pencil to trace along the edge to make a
light line I can use to pull the masking tape. After that I'm hoping its a
matter of holding a constant distance to duplicate the line. I have not
done this but thats my plan, might blow up in my face but were gonna see.
Verticle lines should be no problem.
Eric Henson
barry pote (at)matronics.com on 03/30/2001 03:15:00 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: checkerboard painting
no not archive
Stephen, I too, would like to do that. Let me know, if someone replies
privately.
Thanks,
Barry Pote barrypote(at)home.com RV9a Wings
"Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
>
>
> I've always liked the look of a checkerboard design on the cowl or tail.
> Does anyone know where I can find instructions for painting a curved
surface
> in this pattern? It looks really hard.
>
> Steve Soule
> RV-6A snowed in
> Huntington, VT
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MackPerry(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Please remove me from the list for RV 6 |
Please remove me from the list for RV 6.
My address is mackperry(at)aol.com
Thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/02/2001 08:27:22 AM
Just had to do this:
T minus one week and counting. Many RV's, crusty garrage/ hangar guys
everywhere. Unfortunate spouses listening to endless conversations about
dimples and F-60something partnumbers and some stuff called allodine. Miles
of booths in 107 degree hangars filled with things you can't afford but
just put on the credit card anyway. Eye strain caused by hours upon hours
of staring intently at a seemingly insignificant pieces of an airframe
wondering "how'd he get that to come out so smooth"? Shoulders aching from
the backpack straps carying 600 color brochures from every parts and tool
manufacturer, and yes, you DID need every one of them. Feeling superior to
the poor misguided souls building lesser aircraft for the same money. Ant
bites from laying on the ground trying to peer inside a cowling trying to
see how he ran his throttle cables. Mustangs, jet noise, BEER!
Less than a week to go, let the good times roll. See ya there boyz!
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
I have recently had to cut off the original air scoop to make room for a new
scoop sized for van's Air Flow performance air box. My problem is in
deciding exactly where to fit the new scoop. I know about the 5 degree right
orientation for the box, but I don't understand why. Does anyone know if new
scoop should be fitted in the center of the lower cowl, or be moved to the
right to line up with input end of the box? And Finally, I assume that the 5
degree right is oriented as the wings, right from the cockpit looking out,
right? Thanks for any help.
Ray Grenier
RV-4, buried in the last 90%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | 334 air-to-air pictures of RVs online |
(Posted for Doug Reeves by Larry Pardue)
Hi listers.
I spent the day with Ed Hicks and sat next to him while he shot
air-to-air pictures of RV's around the Texas area. I used my digital
camera and took 334 pictures. I'm uploading 60 a day for your viewing
pleasure.
Simply:
1. go to http://www.vansaircraft.net
2. click on 'Photo Gallery',
3. click on 'Doug Reeves'.
The first batch are in an album labeled 'RV-Ed Hicks
visit-Vol 1'. Volumes 2-6 will appear throughout the week and some
scanned copies of Ed's photographs will begin appearing in a couple of
weeks. Trust me, you will want to see Ed's work. It is incredible.
Enjoy and have a good week.
Doug Reeves
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Mel,
Please extend our CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (finishing F/G)
Niantic, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | checkerboard painting |
I've always liked the look of a checkerboard design on the cowl or
tail.
Does anyone know where I can find instructions for painting a curved surface
in this pattern? It looks really hard.
***************************************************************
I've got a military scheme with a checkerboard cowl and rudder in mind for
my HRII. There's a drawing of it on my website if you're really bored or
really interested.
I had trouble painting the straight lines on the curved cowl of my first
RV-4. But that was before I saw the laser levels that the drop ceiling
installers use.
I plan to borrow or rent one of those units and position it to project a
laser beam line onto the cowl where needed, particularly the vertical lines.
Then it should be easy enough to mask along the lines. Then move the laser
level to the next line.
This will also work for any other stripe, such as those long ones down the
side of your fuselage.
I'm sure the painting pros have other techniques, but I'm not a pro!
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-985-7309 home
812-464-1839 work
Harmon Rocket II
http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
_
I've always liked the look of a checkerboard design on the cowl or tail.
Does anyone know where I can find instructions for painting a curved surface
in this pattern? It looks really hard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
I couldn't have said it better. Bravo for all us fools.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Poor fitting flap problem |
I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and discovered a clearance
problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin and is going to need
to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I can think of to
this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and adjusting the flap out
from the fusalge.
Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better idea? I hate to
have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted wing. (I know I should
have done the fit before the paint!)
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection farings. Everything else
is done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Limit Switch for Flaps |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
17, 2001) at 04/02/2001 12:26:27 PM
I have installed electric flaps in my -4 and would like to add a limit
switch to automatically shut off the flap motor once the flaps have fully
retracted. Do any Listers have pictures/sketches/drawings of an
installation with a limit switch? Any help would be most appreciated.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Dean Pichon
RV-4
Getting ready to move to the airport
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Limit Switch for Flaps |
>
>I have installed electric flaps in my -4 and would like to add a limit
>switch to automatically shut off the flap motor once the flaps have fully
>retracted. Do any Listers have pictures/sketches/drawings of an
>installation with a limit switch? Any help would be most appreciated.
>Thanks in advance for the help.
>
>Dean Pichon
>RV-4
>Getting ready to move to the airport
If you are installing one of Van's flap motors, you don't need a limit
switch. The motor has an internal clutch that disengages the drive when the
flap goes to max or min travel. At least that's the way it works on the
flap motor/actuator assembly in the RV8.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
183 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: checkerboard painting |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/02/2001 01:08:45 PM
Hey Vincent,
Jim Striet (rv lister) has one of those and we used it to align my HS. I
was thinking about using it for the stripe down the side but the beam is
pretty thick. About 1/4 inch, maybe less. It would be hard to mask to it in
my opinion. My best ace in the hole. Offer a local paint pro a hundred
bucks to drop by after work and help you pull the lines. They can do it by
eye and nail it.
Eric
Eric
"Frazier, Vincent A" (at)matronics.com on 04/02/2001
10:53:14 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: checkerboard painting
I've always liked the look of a checkerboard design on the cowl or
tail.
Does anyone know where I can find instructions for painting a curved
surface
in this pattern? It looks really hard.
***************************************************************
I've got a military scheme with a checkerboard cowl and rudder in mind for
my HRII. There's a drawing of it on my website if you're really bored or
really interested.
I had trouble painting the straight lines on the curved cowl of my first
RV-4. But that was before I saw the laser levels that the drop ceiling
installers use.
I plan to borrow or rent one of those units and position it to project a
laser beam line onto the cowl where needed, particularly the vertical
lines.
Then it should be easy enough to mask along the lines. Then move the laser
level to the next line.
This will also work for any other stripe, such as those long ones down the
side of your fuselage.
I'm sure the painting pros have other techniques, but I'm not a pro!
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-985-7309 home
812-464-1839 work
Harmon Rocket II
http://www.usi.edu/CHEM/FACULTY/vfrazier/page1.html
_
I've always liked the look of a checkerboard design on the cowl or tail.
Does anyone know where I can find instructions for painting a curved
surface
in this pattern? It looks really hard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor fitting flap problem |
I had the same problem, interestingly, on the same side as yours, the left.
I am sure that there are 100+ methods of approaching this and I have
seen several great ideas on this list. What made my situation a
little different from yours is that I discovered the problem before
paint.
I only needed to gain about 1/16", but only at the top of the flap.
My approach may seem a bit radical, but what I elected to do was to
change the inboard "angle" of the inboard end of the flap, and at the
same time, I replaced all of the universal head rivets that secure
the plate with flush heads. What this amounted to was a rebuild of
the inboard end but even though I was not worried about a fresh paint
job, I could have easily completed the job without much, if any
damage to the paint,, except for the new rivet heads on the lower
surface (I was able to re-use those holes).
Even though this may seem to be a complicated fix, I did not feel
comfortable with drilling out that hinge,, and at the same time,
compromise the clearance between the flap and the aileron.
Feel free to email me if you want any details.
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4 N184DA
150 Hours!!
>
>I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and discovered a clearance
>problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin and is going to need
>to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I can think of to
>this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and adjusting the flap out
>from the fusalge.
>
>Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better idea? I hate to
>have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted wing. (I know I should
>have done the fit before the paint!)
>
>Pat Perry
>Dallas, PA
>RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection farings. Everything else
>is done.
--
Derrick L. Aubuchon
n184da(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Limit Switch for Flaps |
A momemtary on switch works real good on My RV4 Electric flaps.It's
spring loaded and returns to the neutral (off) position when you let go.
I don't see the need of a limit switch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Limit Switch for Flaps |
dean
the flap switch is only activated while pushing on it, ( momentary switch )
the flap motor free spins when at the end of the travel limit. i don't think
you need a limit switch.
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly |
Posting]
Why can't I address the list with Web tv?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Air Scoop |
> I have recently had to cut off the original air scoop to make room for a
new
> scoop sized for van's Air Flow performance air box. My problem is in
> deciding exactly where to fit the new scoop. I know about the 5 degree
right
> orientation for the box, but I don't understand why. Does anyone know if
new
> scoop should be fitted in the center of the lower cowl, or be moved to the
> right to line up with input end of the box? And Finally, I assume that
the 5
> degree right is oriented as the wings, right from the cockpit looking out,
> right? Thanks for any help.
>
> Ray Grenier
>
Ray:
On my -4 (0-360 A1A, carb) the carb is not located exactly on the centerline
of the airplane. It is located slightly left of the centerline. The air
box is canted to the right to position the inlet on the centerline of the
airplane directly below the prop. Yes, this is looking forward from the
cockpit. The air inlet is in the exact center, but the airflow goes
slightly right to left (again looking forward) as it goes from the inlet to
the carb.
Hope that makes sense
Doug Weiler
RV-4 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
I have used a Kitfox for taking pictures because the door opens up. Has
anyone experimented with having the sliding canopy pinned open about 3
inches to get a photo lens out? any input would be appreciated.
Best wishes,
John Furey RV6A O-360 75 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory Scott" <gregory.scott1(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Flap Limit Switch |
Hi Dean,
The flap motor sold by Van's does not need a limit switch to cut the
drive at the end of travel. You will not harm the motor if you allow it
to run for brief periods at the end of travel. I did fit a switch to
the mechanism, but it is to indicate via a panel light whenever the
flaps are "off normal" ie: fully retracted, it just reminds me not to
make a bigger fool of myself than nature has already!
Greg Scott
RV 4
waiting for better weather
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Limit Switch for Flaps |
I think what Dean wants is to leave the switch up or down and have the motor
turn off.
While the internal clutches do kick in when your at the stops, the
motor keeps turning.
Limit switches (Micro switches) wired in series with the 14 v would do the
trick but relays might be required
to handle the current draw of the motor
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
Rv6A N648RV Finishing...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Denk [SMTP:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:07 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Limit Switch for Flaps
>
>
>
> >
> >I have installed electric flaps in my -4 and would like to add a limit
> >switch to automatically shut off the flap motor once the flaps have
> fully
> >retracted. Do any Listers have pictures/sketches/drawings of an
> >installation with a limit switch? Any help would be most appreciated.
> >Thanks in advance for the help.
> >
> >Dean Pichon
> >RV-4
> >Getting ready to move to the airport
>
> If you are installing one of Van's flap motors, you don't need a limit
> switch. The motor has an internal clutch that disengages the drive when
> the
> flap goes to max or min travel. At least that's the way it works on the
> flap motor/actuator assembly in the RV8.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> 183 hrs.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Flap Limit Switch & Vans Flap Board |
The flap control board that Vans sells can be used with limit switch's. This
would enable the use of a maintained switch to run the flaps all the way up
and stop when the micro switch is activated.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tubing from hdw store? |
I was told that Van's IS hardware store tubing.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
----- Original Message -----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:57 PM
Subject: RV-List:
>
> Is hardware store grade aluminum tubing good enough to make the fuel vent
> lines out of? That's what I have in there now. Not too late to rip 'em
out
> and replace with the tubing that Van's sells. Don't want to if I don't
have
> to, though.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Limit Switch for Flaps |
Here is the diagram from Bob Nukolls
Ross
**************************************
Here's a wiring diagram for multiple flap controls . . . you can
have as many as you wish in as many locations. The RELAYS are
necessary . . . this system has a safety feature in that simply
stops the flaps where they are in case of two, conflicting commands.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
> > >I have installed electric flaps in my -4 and would like to add a limit
> > >switch to automatically shut off the flap motor once the flaps have
> > fully
> > >retracted. Do any Listers have pictures/sketches/drawings of an
> > >installation with a limit switch? Any help would be most appreciated.
> > >Thanks in advance for the help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Limit Switch for Flaps |
I have the flap switch on the stick, momentary in the down direction only as
I want to just flip the switch up to raise the flaps instead of holding the
switch.
The flap motor does have a clutch to limit up travel but after flying in a
friend's R-8, the sound of the flap motor running after he left the switch
in the up position told me that you do not want to forget and leave power
applied for any extended period of time. I elected to have a limit switch
to turn off "up" power once the flaps are fully retracted.
I got a standard micro lever arm switch with a roller end (many different
brands available). Most mount the switch so the flap arm moves to the make
contact with the fixed switch. Make your switch mounting bracket adjustable
to fine tune the trip set point. Adding the switch does require running
three wires to the flap motor vice two.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Limit Switch for Flaps
>
>I have installed electric flaps in my -4 and would like to add a limit
>switch to automatically shut off the flap motor once the flaps have fully
>retracted. Do any Listers have pictures/sketches/drawings of an
>installation with a limit switch? Any help would be most appreciated.
>Thanks in advance for the help.
>
>Dean Pichon
>RV-4
>Getting ready to move to the airport
If you are installing one of Van's flap motors, you don't need a limit
switch. The motor has an internal clutch that disengages the drive when the
flap goes to max or min travel. At least that's the way it works on the
flap motor/actuator assembly in the RV8.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
183 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor fitting flap problem |
>
> I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and discovered a clearance
> problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin and is going to
need
> to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I can think of to
> this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and adjusting the flap
out
> from the fusalge.
>
> Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better idea? I hate to
> have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted wing. (I know I
should
> have done the fit before the paint!)
>
> Pat Perry
> Dallas, PA
> RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection farings. Everything
else
> is done.
Pat,
I presume that simply trimming off the offending 1/8" is not a viable
option. I also assume you are talking about the top surface of the flap not
clearing as the bottom is suppose to overlap the bottom fuselage skin.
Well, at least on the RV-6, guess it could be different on the RV-4.
Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor fitting flap problem |
There must be a different method of attaching the actuator arm to the flap
on a -6. Everyone with a -6 mentioned just trimming the 1/8" off but its not
that simple, the -4 has a heavy plate attached to the inboard rib that
accepts torque of the actuator. This heavy plate is what is hitting the
fuselage. I thought of moving the entire flap out just enough to clear the
fuse by moving the hinge. That will be a bit of drilling fitting and
riveting but it should work. I will also have to trim the outboard end of
the flap and inboard end of the aileron to gain the original clearance
between them.
pat
>From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
>Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:50:54 -0400
>
>
> >
> > I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and discovered a clearance
> > problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin and is going to
>need
> > to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I can think of
>to
> > this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and adjusting the flap
>out
> > from the fusalge.
> >
> > Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better idea? I hate
>to
> > have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted wing. (I know I
>should
> > have done the fit before the paint!)
> >
> > Pat Perry
> > Dallas, PA
> > RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection farings. Everything
>else
> > is done.
>
>
>Pat,
> I presume that simply trimming off the offending 1/8" is not a viable
>option. I also assume you are talking about the top surface of the flap
>not
>clearing as the bottom is suppose to overlap the bottom fuselage skin.
> Well, at least on the RV-6, guess it could be different on the RV-4.
>
>Ed
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
Yes, drilled to spar baffle. I matched all this up with the top and bottom
skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched) |
Bob, the problem with just matching up the top and bottom main skins with
the tank skin is it can cause the leading edge of the tank skin to stick up
further than the leading edge skin. The reason you use the straps is to
pull the skin down tight. If you just butt the tank against the top and
bottom main skins then you wouldn't need the straps.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)N
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
Prepping Top Main Wing Skins for riveting
http://bmnellis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: tank countersink/dimple question (6 pre-punched)
>
> Yes, drilled to spar baffle. I matched all this up with the top and bottom
> skins.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Poor fitting flap problem |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
Thread-Index: AcC7uk2EAr3xnhgpQbuWMQ6DxP0FVgACmSLw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Why not drill out the flap actuator plate, rebend it so that the plate
is more perpendicular to the flap spar, and make a new angle that goes
along the bottom of the inboard flap rib? Does the plate contact the
fuse only at the trailing edge of the plate? If so this would be an
easy fix.
The flap actuator setup is the same on the -6. It's one of those things
during assembly that you think geez, hope this fits when I put the wings
on...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 98 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Perry [mailto:pperryrv(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 3:29 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
>
>
>
> There must be a different method of attaching the actuator
> arm to the flap
> on a -6. Everyone with a -6 mentioned just trimming the 1/8"
> off but its not
> that simple, the -4 has a heavy plate attached to the inboard
> rib that
> accepts torque of the actuator. This heavy plate is what is
> hitting the
> fuselage. I thought of moving the entire flap out just
> enough to clear the
> fuse by moving the hinge. That will be a bit of drilling fitting and
> riveting but it should work. I will also have to trim the
> outboard end of
> the flap and inboard end of the aileron to gain the original
> clearance
> between them.
>
> pat
>
>
> >From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
> >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:50:54 -0400
> >
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and
> discovered a clearance
> > > problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin
> and is going to
> >need
> > > to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I
> can think of
> >to
> > > this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and
> adjusting the flap
> >out
> > > from the fusalge.
> > >
> > > Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better
> idea? I hate
> >to
> > > have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted
> wing. (I know I
> >should
> > > have done the fit before the paint!)
> > >
> > > Pat Perry
> > > Dallas, PA
> > > RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection
> farings. Everything
> >else
> > > is done.
> >
> >
> >Pat,
> > I presume that simply trimming off the offending 1/8"
> is not a viable
> >option. I also assume you are talking about the top surface
> of the flap
> >not
> >clearing as the bottom is suppose to overlap the bottom
> fuselage skin.
> > Well, at least on the RV-6, guess it could be different
> on the RV-4.
> >
> >Ed
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy |
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV6-List: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy
>--> RV6-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis"
>
>> Has anyone figured out an elegant way to seal the side skirts of a
>> sliding canopy RV-6? I'm thinking about a rubber-felt weatherstrip
>> (like at the base of a side window in a car), mounted on the side of
>> the slider rail contacting the skirt on the inside.
>
>I did not trim the skirt and instead let it lip over onto the fuselage and
as I fiberglassed the windscreen a slot was left for the skirt to slide
into. This additional fiberglassing area then was flared out so an
uninterrupted blending to the fuselage. Having done so this tucks the skirt
into the slot and with the overlap to the fuselage gives a really tight seal
( I have no air leaks nor has a friend who has also done this). I also added
tape so as not to scratch the paint in the contact area.
Bob Pretzsch N399BP
70+ hrs RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Tank attach nutplates |
While waiting for the Proseal to dry, I am putting the nutplates in the
wings to hold the tanks. On the bottom row (the one that gets dimpled)
the innermost 5 or 6 screw holes are too close the the flange strips to
get the #8 dimple die anywhere near them. This is on a 6 with
pre-punched skins. With the pre-punched skins, I am sure I'm not the
first one to encounter this. Have people been just countersinking the
few that don't fit, or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first
time.)
Thanks
Jeff Point
-6 wings, @#$%&* tanks
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor fitting flap problem |
I know it sounds crude, but it is a common problem and can be fixed with a
few strategic blows of the hammer to the fuse! Then the fairing is designed
to cover it. I know this has been a fix for many, though only some will
admit it!
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
>
> There must be a different method of attaching the actuator arm to the flap
> on a -6. Everyone with a -6 mentioned just trimming the 1/8" off but its
not
> that simple, the -4 has a heavy plate attached to the inboard rib that
> accepts torque of the actuator. This heavy plate is what is hitting the
> fuselage. I thought of moving the entire flap out just enough to clear
the
> fuse by moving the hinge. That will be a bit of drilling fitting and
> riveting but it should work. I will also have to trim the outboard end of
> the flap and inboard end of the aileron to gain the original clearance
> between them.
>
> pat
>
>
> >From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor fitting flap problem
> >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:50:54 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I did the test fit for my flaps this weekend and discovered a
clearance
> > > problem. My left flap doesn't clear the fuselage skin and is going to
> >need
> > > to be moved out about 1/8" to clear. The only solution I can think of
> >to
> > > this problem is removing the hinge from the wing and adjusting the
flap
> >out
> > > from the fusalge.
> > >
> > > Did anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a better idea? I hate
> >to
> > > have to drill out all those rivets on a fresh painted wing. (I know I
> >should
> > > have done the fit before the paint!)
> > >
> > > Pat Perry
> > > Dallas, PA
> > > RV-4 N154PK Fitting wings, flaps, and intersection farings. Everything
> >else
> > > is done.
> >
> >
> >Pat,
> > I presume that simply trimming off the offending 1/8" is not a
viable
> >option. I also assume you are talking about the top surface of the flap
> >not
> >clearing as the bottom is suppose to overlap the bottom fuselage skin.
> > Well, at least on the RV-6, guess it could be different on the RV-4.
> >
> >Ed
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach nutplates |
Boy, this list is an amazing place. After posting my question, I read my
daily list mail, and sure enough there was Bob Paulos thread on the same
topic with my answer in there compliments of Mike Nellis. Forget about
"check the archives," how about "check todays list mail before asking."
Going downstairs to countersink the spar flanges.
Jeff Point
-6 wings @#$%&* tanks
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott and Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org> |
I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a guy need? 1000
feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who would mind if I take
a look at your project?
Scott Trask
Iron Mountain MI
49801
(906) 779 9157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | fuel tubing from hdw store? |
Van's tubing just felt a tad stiffer than the stuff I bought from the HW
store. I don't want to proseal it on only to have to take it off later
because it's cracking.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: kempthornes [mailto:kempthornes(at)home.com]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:59 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel tubing from hdw store?
I was told that Van's IS hardware store tubing.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
----- Original Message -----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:57 PM
Subject: RV-List:
>
> Is hardware store grade aluminum tubing good enough to
make the fuel vent
> lines out of? That's what I have in there now. Not too
late to rip 'em
out
> and replace with the tubing that Van's sells. Don't want
to if I don't
have
> to, though.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach nutplates |
Hi Jeff:
Avery's makes a dimple die specifically for this area. It is basically a
male die and a hexhead screw that fits the platenut. You screw the die into
the platenut from the tank side of the spar flange. Works great.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tank attach nutplates
>
>While waiting for the Proseal to dry, I am putting the nutplates in the
>wings to hold the tanks. On the bottom row (the one that gets dimpled)
>the innermost 5 or 6 screw holes are too close the the flange strips to
>get the #8 dimple die anywhere near them. This is on a 6 with
>pre-punched skins. With the pre-punched skins, I am sure I'm not the
>first one to encounter this. Have people been just countersinking the
>few that don't fit, or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first
>time.)
>
>Thanks
>
>Jeff Point
>-6 wings, @#$%&* tanks
>Milwaukee, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Oil Cooling (revisited) |
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Twin Cities RV Forum |
Fellow Listers:
Just one more gentle reminder of the 7th Annual Twin Cities RV Forum. Date
is April 21 in Red Wing, MN. All of the "A" List RV folks will be there:
George and Becki Orndorff, Larry and Kathy Vetterman, Jerry Van Grunsven.
Details at the Forum website at :
http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/rvforum.html
Thanks
Doug Weiler
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tubing from hdw store? |
softer is less likely to crack.i.e... takes longer to work harden.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: fuel tubing from hdw store?
>
> Van's tubing just felt a tad stiffer than the stuff I bought from the HW
> store. I don't want to proseal it on only to have to take it off later
> because it's cracking.
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kempthornes [mailto:kempthornes(at)home.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:59 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel tubing from hdw store?
>
>
>
> I was told that Van's IS hardware store tubing.
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:57 PM
> Subject: RV-List:
>
>
>
> >
> > Is hardware store grade aluminum tubing good enough to
> make the fuel vent
> > lines out of? That's what I have in there now. Not too
> late to rip 'em
> out
> > and replace with the tubing that Van's sells. Don't
want
> to if I don't
> have
> > to, though.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
John,
I don't think you want to do that. The rear of the canopy is held down by
the two side pins that slide into the plastic blocks but only when it's
closed. When it's open even an inch, it's held only by the center slider
block. And while I've personally proven that it will hold the canopy on, I
would never do it on purpose, it doesn't have that kind of strength.
Dave RV-6, 50 hrs
John Furey wrote:
>
> I have used a Kitfox for taking pictures because the door opens up. Has
> anyone experimented with having the sliding canopy pinned open about 3
> inches to get a photo lens out? any input would be appreciated.
>
> Best wishes,
> John Furey RV6A O-360 75 hrs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Oil Cooling Revisited |
Once again, I'm lookin' for help regarding oil cooling. The outside temps
are up in the '70's, and the oil temps are up, up, and away. After heat
soaking everything by doing pattern work for 20-30 minutes, I'm seeing top of
the green arc temperatures even after 5-10 minutes of flying at 2000 RPM @
120 knots, level or slightly descending. I can generate the same high
temperatures in a 5000' climb, especially if everything is already warm.
Here's my set-up, and what I've checked so far:
- 160 hp RV-6 w/fixed pitch prop.
- #8 oil lines to the "0-360" sized Positech oil cooler mounted on top left
baffles with 4" x 3" air inlet opening.
-Oil lines routed as follows: Oil to cooler comes out of the engine at the
4:00 position compared to the spin-on oil filter adapter. This line enters
the bottom of the cooler. The other line runs from the top of the cooler to
a port @ 10:00 compared to the spin-on adapter.
- Vernatherm checked and working properly (not a fun job pulling that sucker).
- Good CHT's (325 in cruise, no CHT's over 400 degrees, even on climb out).
- The oil cooler is very hot, even 15 -20 minutes after shut-down. Not sure
if this tells us much. (Maybe that it is getting oil flow, but how much flow
might be the issue.)
Basically, I can come up with 3 possibilities:
1) As indicated by some in the archives, the Positech cooler may be a boat
anchor. (Or maybe just some of them. Maybe there are manufacturing
variations? Who knows?)
2) I may have an oil flow obstruction in a cooler, port, or hose that is
limiting flow through the cooler.
3) Inadequate air flow.
Looking at how my installation is described above, are there any other
possibilities? If so, what do I do to check them?
Finally, does anyone know how I can test the cooler to verify that oil is
flowing adequately?
Right now, I'm planning on pulling the hoses and cooler and checking
everything for obstructions. If none are found, I'm gonna spend the $ and
change out the oil cooler to a different brand. I welcome any other
suggestions.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: seal on RV-6 sliding canopy |
Bob,
Is there any way you could post a photo or sketch on the internet of
how you did this?
Thanks,
> >
> >I did not trim the skirt and instead let it lip over onto the fuselage and
> as I fiberglassed the windscreen a slot was left for the skirt to slide
> into. This additional fiberglassing area then was flared out so an
> uninterrupted blending to the fuselage. Having done so this tucks the skirt
> into the slot and with the overlap to the fuselage gives a really tight seal
> ( I have no air leaks nor has a friend who has also done this). I also added
> tape so as not to scratch the paint in the contact area.
>
> Bob Pretzsch N399BP
> 70+ hrs RV6A
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Van Beek" <vanbeek.don(at)verizon.net> |
"aeroelectric-list" ,
"rv-list"
| Subject: | Bob Haan's WigWag Controller - Italy Trip |
My wife and I will be vacationing in Italy in late May and early June.
We would love to visit several RV Projects to share our shop knowledge
plus discuss and answer questions regarding the WigWag Controller for
the leading edge light flashing system. Bob Haan, RV6A, and I developed
this system. I am the designer of the WigWag and interested in seeing
your project, explaining all the features and benefits of the WigWag
unit and hearing about other electronic products you would like to
designed into your plane..
This is our first trip to Italy and meeting aircraft builders or other
pilots would be exciting for us. We will be in the following cities on
the dates listed below and would like to meet with anyone in the area
who is interested.
Venezia - May 25 through May 29
Genova - May 31 through June 5
Como - June 7 through June 12
If you are interested in meeting please, respond with your email address
and we can setup a time and place to meet. It would be a great pleasure
for us to address your local builders group.
For additional information on the WigWag Solid State Controller leading
edge lights flashing system see:
http://www.easystreet.com/~bhaan/
Don Van Beek - vanbeek.don(at)verizon.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach nutplates |
Jeff, check Avery's cat. for the "close quarter die set". This is made
specifically for what you have come up against. I have one and yet to use,
but you are a couple of weeks ahead of me. Contact me off list if you want
specific part/page/phone number re: the above. Bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Depths |
> For those of you with a radio stack, how deep is the rack?
Depends on the radios. My transponder is 9.48", and my Terra Nav/Coms are
11.45. This is from the panel to the back of the tray, minus the connector
lengths, which add another inch or so.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Covers? |
I'm using the Cleaveland lightweight one. I like it, especially the light
weight and compact size it folds up into. Don't know if Cleaveland does N
numbers but I'm sure any embroidery shop could add it, or you could have a
sign shop make up vinyl iron-on numbers.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D. Dickens" <mddickens(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Denver Area Hangar Space |
I'll be relocating my family and RV-8 project to the Denver area in late
July...I'm beginning my hunt for hangar space in the area. If any of the
Denver based builders know of anyone or any airport having hangar space
available, I'd very much appreciate knowing.
Thanks,
Mark Dickens
Germantown, TN - soon to be Denver, CO
RV-8 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach nutplates |
Hi Jeff-
This may sound a little barbaric, but it worked well for me. Install the
platenuts in this area and simply drive a screw into the plate, dimpling
the spar flange as it goes in. Use a proper size screwdriver or bit that
is not worn so you don't strip out the screw head or torque the screw
enough to break it. (used a screw that came with the kit) I didn't snap
any of the screws off, but if you do and can't get it out, you'll just have
to drill out the platenut and start over. When all were done, the tank
fitted quite nicely.
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Jeff Point wrote:
>
> While waiting for the Proseal to dry, I am putting the nutplates in the
> wings to hold the tanks. On the bottom row (the one that gets dimpled)
> the innermost 5 or 6 screw holes are too close the the flange strips to
> get the #8 dimple die anywhere near them. This is on a 6 with
> pre-punched skins. With the pre-punched skins, I am sure I'm not the
> first one to encounter this. Have people been just countersinking the
> few that don't fit, or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first
> time.)
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Point
> -6 wings, @#$%&* tanks
> Milwaukee, WI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuel tubing from hdw store? |
Due to the number of reworks on my tubing runs, I decided to located an
alternate source for the soft aluminum tubing. I got ~50' at a local
industrial air conditioning supply (Johnstone Supply) for much less than
aircraft sources were charging.
I second what Mr. Galley says about the softer materials versus
fatigue/cracking resistance - softer is generally better.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Depths |
>
> For those of you with a radio stack, how deep is the rack?
My UPS Apollo SL30 Nav/Comm, SL70 Transponder, and GX60 GPS/Comm are
11.45 inches long. The wiring comes out to the side so "extra" depth s
needed.
The PS Engineering 6000 is about 7 inches long, but you need a least 2
inches for the wiring to turn the corner.
UPS Apollo has the intallation manuals on their web site.
http://www.upsat.com/
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, still wiring!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooling Revisited |
Kyle,
I have the same set up as you with the exception of the oil cooler. I have
a Stewart Warner cooler. I had an initial problem with oil temps because my
opening in my rear baffle was smaller than the oil cooler. Once I opened it
up to the max, oil temps have never been a problem.
Dump the Positech and make sure your baffles are sealing properly all the way
around your cowling. I'd bet your problems will go away.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (Getting ready for S-n-F)
>
>Once again, I'm lookin' for help regarding oil cooling. The outside temps
>are up in the '70's, and the oil temps are up, up, and away. After heat
>soaking everything by doing pattern work for 20-30 minutes, I'm seeing top
of
>the green arc temperatures even after 5-10 minutes of flying at 2000 RPM @
>120 knots, level or slightly descending. I can generate the same high
>temperatures in a 5000' climb, especially if everything is already warm.
>
>Here's my set-up, and what I've checked so far:
>
>- 160 hp RV-6 w/fixed pitch prop.
>
>- #8 oil lines to the "0-360" sized Positech oil cooler mounted on top left
>baffles with 4" x 3" air inlet opening.
>
>-Oil lines routed as follows: Oil to cooler comes out of the engine at the
>4:00 position compared to the spin-on oil filter adapter. This line enters
>the bottom of the cooler. The other line runs from the top of the cooler to
>a port @ 10:00 compared to the spin-on adapter.
>
>- Vernatherm checked and working properly (not a fun job pulling that sucker).
>
>- Good CHT's (325 in cruise, no CHT's over 400 degrees, even on climb out).
>
>- The oil cooler is very hot, even 15 -20 minutes after shut-down. Not sure
>if this tells us much. (Maybe that it is getting oil flow, but how much flow
>might be the issue.)
>
>Basically, I can come up with 3 possibilities:
>
>1) As indicated by some in the archives, the Positech cooler may be a boat
>anchor. (Or maybe just some of them. Maybe there are manufacturing
>variations? Who knows?)
>
>2) I may have an oil flow obstruction in a cooler, port, or hose that is
>limiting flow through the cooler.
>
>3) Inadequate air flow.
>
>Looking at how my installation is described above, are there any other
>possibilities? If so, what do I do to check them?
>
>Finally, does anyone know how I can test the cooler to verify that oil is
>flowing adequately?
>
>Right now, I'm planning on pulling the hoses and cooler and checking
>everything for obstructions. If none are found, I'm gonna spend the $ and
>change out the oil cooler to a different brand. I welcome any other
>suggestions.
>
>Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
>RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | fuel tubing from hdw store? |
Cool. I'll just leave them the way they are then. Thanks everyone.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Jones, Bryan D.
[mailto:bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:23 AM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: RV-List: fuel tubing from hdw store?
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Due to the number of reworks on my tubing runs, I decided to
located an
alternate source for the soft aluminum tubing. I got ~50'
at a local
industrial air conditioning supply (Johnstone Supply) for
much less than
aircraft sources were charging.
I second what Mr. Galley says about the softer materials
versus
fatigue/cracking resistance - softer is generally better.
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
No doubt that a 1000' runway would be sufficient with experience. Of course
there are lots of mitigating factors; engine size, prop type, field
elevation/density altitude, etc. I wouldn't try to test fly it from that
short a strip.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott and Pam Trask [mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:38 PM
To: RV6
Subject: RV-List: new guy
I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a
guy need? 1000
feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who
would mind if I take
a look at your project?
Scott Trask
Iron Mountain MI
49801
(906) 779 9157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | another rudder skin question |
I read with interest and concern the thread last week about the cracking some
have found in the rudder skins. I remember that when I built the rudder on
my RV9 (...very early in the learning curve...) the skins at the leading
edge were under quite a bit of stress when I pop rivited them. Am I doomed
for trouble here? Should I take it all apart now, re-bend the leading edge
and re-rivet?
Kim Nicholas
frustrated in Seattle....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Spencer family" <hilandvt(at)sover.net> |
Hi Guys, I'm beginning to scrounge around to find a RV-3 kit not
completed. Hope to install
the new quickbuild wing kit with the new spar, etc. If anyone has a
lead on one of these little demons please let me know. Thanks, Stan
Spencer - Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Why not??? Van had less than that when he test flew the RV-3.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: new guy
>
> No doubt that a 1000' runway would be sufficient with experience. Of
course
> there are lots of mitigating factors; engine size, prop type, field
> elevation/density altitude, etc. I wouldn't try to test fly it from that
> short a strip.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott and Pam Trask [mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:38 PM
> To: RV6
> Subject: RV-List: new guy
>
>
>
> I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does
a
> guy need? 1000
> feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who
> would mind if I take
> a look at your project?
> Scott Trask
> Iron Mountain MI
> 49801
> (906) 779 9157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: another rudder skin question |
Kim,
In my limited knowledge, the cracking is due to the unsupported portion of
the trailing edges of the rudder & elevators being beaten upon by the prop
blast pulses. Since the stiffeners are two separate pieces, adding RTV at
the T.E. helps provide a connection between the stiffeners that helps
prevent the skin from flexing and cracking. The only thing that would be
better (I think) is an actual rib, but how would you rivet it without using
pop rivets?
From what I have heard, the RTV method has proven effective in preventing
the aforementioned cracking.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A, Wings
>From: Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: another rudder skin question
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:07:10 EDT
>
>
>I read with interest and concern the thread last week about the cracking
>some
>have found in the rudder skins. I remember that when I built the rudder on
>my RV9 (...very early in the learning curve...) the skins at the leading
>edge were under quite a bit of stress when I pop rivited them. Am I doomed
>for trouble here? Should I take it all apart now, re-bend the leading
>edge
>and re-rivet?
>
>Kim Nicholas
>frustrated in Seattle....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
I am hesitant to jump into this one, but I often have questions from
prospective builders concerning how much runway they need for safe
operation of an RV by a pilot new to the aircraft.
In my opinion, 1000' is MUCH too short for the initial flights in an RV
by anyone other than an experienced RV pilot. I have watched RV pilots
who have many landings in the book use up 1000' waiting for the plane to
stop flying as it floats down the runway. True, good technique will
eliminate this most of the time, but how many of us manage perfect
technique on every landing?
The reason I respond to this issue is not to promote a "runway" war, but
to avoid misleading potential builders who have heard much concerning
the short field capabilities of the RV. Short field operation is
definitely in the RV bag of tricks, but the pilot needs to accumulate
some time before using the full capabilities of the plane.
I am sure Van had many, many hours in his RV-1 and Playboy at his short
strip before he test flew the RV-3 from 1000' of sod.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
=====================
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Why not??? Van had less than that when he test flew the RV-3.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:37 AM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: new guy
>
>
> >
> > No doubt that a 1000' runway would be sufficient with experience. Of
> course
> > there are lots of mitigating factors; engine size, prop type, field
> > elevation/density altitude, etc. I wouldn't try to test fly it from that
> > short a strip.
> >
> > --
> > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> > Network Administrator
> > Union Safe Deposit Bank
> > 209-946-5116
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott and Pam Trask [mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
> > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:38 PM
> > To: RV6
> > Subject: RV-List: new guy
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does
> a
> > guy need? 1000
> > feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who
> > would mind if I take
> > a look at your project?
> > Scott Trask
> > Iron Mountain MI
> > 49801
> > (906) 779 9157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Benson, Bradley" <bbenson(at)trane.com> |
But is it really wise? Especially when a 6500x150 runway (IMT) is available
nearby?
Cheers,
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: new guy
Why not??? Van had less than that when he test flew the RV-3.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: new guy
>
> No doubt that a 1000' runway would be sufficient with experience. Of
course
> there are lots of mitigating factors; engine size, prop type, field
> elevation/density altitude, etc. I wouldn't try to test fly it from that
> short a strip.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott and Pam Trask [mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:38 PM
> To: RV6
> Subject: RV-List: new guy
>
>
>
> I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does
a
> guy need? 1000
> feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who
> would mind if I take
> a look at your project?
> Scott Trask
> Iron Mountain MI
> 49801
> (906) 779 9157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
You are correct. Test flights should be done from a strip that is longer,
much longer but all I reported was the history and I can't remember the
number except that Van corrected me when I said 900 feet. I know it was
even less.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: new guy
>
> I am hesitant to jump into this one, but I often have questions from
> prospective builders concerning how much runway they need for safe
> operation of an RV by a pilot new to the aircraft.
>
> In my opinion, 1000' is MUCH too short for the initial flights in an RV
> by anyone other than an experienced RV pilot. I have watched RV pilots
> who have many landings in the book use up 1000' waiting for the plane to
> stop flying as it floats down the runway. True, good technique will
> eliminate this most of the time, but how many of us manage perfect
> technique on every landing?
>
> The reason I respond to this issue is not to promote a "runway" war, but
> to avoid misleading potential builders who have heard much concerning
> the short field capabilities of the RV. Short field operation is
> definitely in the RV bag of tricks, but the pilot needs to accumulate
> some time before using the full capabilities of the plane.
>
> I am sure Van had many, many hours in his RV-1 and Playboy at his short
> strip before he test flew the RV-3 from 1000' of sod.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
> "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
>
> =====================
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why not??? Van had less than that when he test flew the RV-3.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:37 AM
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: new guy
> >
> >
> > >
> > > No doubt that a 1000' runway would be sufficient with experience. Of
> > course
> > > there are lots of mitigating factors; engine size, prop type, field
> > > elevation/density altitude, etc. I wouldn't try to test fly it from
that
> > > short a strip.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> > > Network Administrator
> > > Union Safe Deposit Bank
> > > 209-946-5116
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott and Pam Trask
[mailto:PTrask(at)diisd.org]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:38 PM
> > > To: RV6
> > > Subject: RV-List: new guy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway
does
> > a
> > > guy need? 1000
> > > feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me
who
> > > would mind if I take
> > > a look at your project?
> > > Scott Trask
> > > Iron Mountain MI
> > > 49801
> > > (906) 779 9157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thread-Topic: RV-List: new guy
Thread-Index: AcC8ehIoJDbLWB3+QbKIX4kBCShNhAAAj0zw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
> to avoid misleading potential builders who have heard much concerning
> the short field capabilities of the RV. Short field operation is
> definitely in the RV bag of tricks, but the pilot needs to accumulate
> some time before using the full capabilities of the plane.
Right you are, Sam. I flown into a 900 ft farm strip in my RV-6, and
got stopped 3/4ths down the runway...they just don't automatically stop
that short without practice first. Obviously, on your first flight
you'll have very little (if any) practice. To top that off there's a
lot going on mentally on your first flight, so be wise people and reduce
your risks to the lowest amount possible on the first flight. I have
almost 100 hours on my airplane in the eight months I've been flying it
and I feel like I still getting to "know" my airplane. It sure is fun
to learn, though!
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Going back to the original message, though, the question was not
specifically about first flights, or flight tests at all. It was only
about the suitability of a 1,000' strip for an RV-6 or -7. My RV time is
pretty limited, but the consensus of more experienced pilots (and Van,
evidently) appears to be that 1,000' is fine.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
My question would be? Where can you go if the engine doesn't put out full
power suddenly? Are the approach ends safe to land in without killing
yourself? Landing...You need to be right on the numbers and on the ground in
the first 300ft on grass. Braking not as good. I wouldn't do it unless I was
very comfortable in the plane.
Don Champagne
RV-6 N767DC
Retired DAL Capt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | another rudder skin question |
I found that the leading edge pop-rivets were very easy to drill out. I had
to drill some out since I did the same as you - pulled the leading edge
together with lots of strength and held it while I riveted. I wasn't
concerned with cracking (I also use .020 skins) but more concerned with the
oil canning it caused since you are also pulling and bending the flanges on
the rudder spar. When this happens, the skin also moves around. The oil
canning vanished once I took the tension off the skin and spar flanges by
drilling out these rivets.
You may want to get other opinions, but considering how easy it was and how
little damage (if any) it caused, I would drill them out, bend the leading
edge properly and then rivet them again. You should be able to have the
holes almost lined up without squeezing. This took me LOTS of wrestling and
sore knuckles! But, it _is_ possible. I consider this part of the project so
far to be the most difficult (yes, even compared to the fuel tanks). I'm
sure I'll change my mind when I start the canopy and/or cowling.
If you're using .016 skins, I suspect the bending of the LE to be much
easier on your hands. The broomstick is IMO only good for the initial bend.
Hope this helps,
Are
RV-8 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Knicholas2(at)AOL.COM
Sent: April 3, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: another rudder skin question
I read with interest and concern the thread last week about the cracking
some
have found in the rudder skins. I remember that when I built the rudder on
my RV9 (...very early in the learning curve...) the skins at the leading
edge were under quite a bit of stress when I pop rivited them. Am I doomed
for trouble here? Should I take it all apart now, re-bend the leading edge
and re-rivet?
Kim Nicholas
frustrated in Seattle....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/02/01 |
SHORT RUNWAY IN MICHIGAN
<<>>
Scott:
1000 foot runway... well...all of Michigan ain't very high in alittude...
so, I'd say that's plenty -- IF you've got no trees, hills, houses, tall
buildings, or power lines across the departure end of the runway for at least
another 2000 feet or so!
Van likes to say numbers on the order of 500' for takeoff, 300' for
landing, (maybe its the other way around?) with typical RV-3,4,6,8,9 (and now
the new RV-7).
And, we've all seen his video showing a 300' takeoff -- flaps down, but I'm
not sure if thats half flaps or full flaps.
Flaps down does decrease ground roll at the expense of immediate climb
performance, just in case you hadn't considered that. But, the plane does
accelerate so quickly you could retract flaps and pick up a few knots, then
climb much better with negligible increase in distance -- What I'm saying is,
a takeoff with flaps down more than makes up for the decreased climb IF its a
short runway you have to contend with!
I fly the RV-6, with 180 hp Lycoming, and Constant speed prop. Of
course, a CS prop does little for you when the goal is to extract max
horsepower at 2700 rpm on the takeoff roll unless you're comparing it with a
fixed cruise prop that cant get full rpm on takeoff! Either way, if you get
the rpm somehow, the whole family of Van's aircaft can get airborne even with
2 people and full fuel, in about 500 feet at sea level, and about 800-1000
feet roll at my altitude of about 3000' MSL. I'd suppose a mountain takeoff
at Colorado Springs 7200' or higher at Eagle, Telluride, or some place like
that might take a healthy toll on your takeoff roll -- especially in the hot
summer!
So, worse case for Michigan on a hot summer day... You'd be looking at a
normal takeoff of 800' roll, and you might horse it off with flaps down in
500 feet. Heavy weight. And don't expect a fantastic climb until you
accelerate to 120 to 140 mph. But after that, its STILL a fantastic Van's
aircraft, built for performance! You WON'T be disappointed! (They don't
call it the RV grin for nothing!).
I'll soon be building an RV-8 to replace my RV-6. I've got a county road
next to my house, but it has 'dips' in it (they don't believe in building
bridges over all the dry creek beds here in Nevada) -- so I'm looking for a
nice section of the road with at least 600 feet between 'dips' -- to take off
from on my first flight to get it over to the airport! I want to build my
plane with the wings on at home. And, don't have a method to trailer it to
the airport with wings on!
RV-6 TRAILER IDEA
That reminds me.... Has anyone thought of a method to transport an RV-6
over the highway without taking the wings off? I'm contemplating building a
special low trailer, to put the plane on sideways, then TIP the plane on its
nose to raise the tail up high, with some sort of brace to the tailwheel to
keep it there. Then, I'd tow it down the highway sideways (long tongue on
trailer so the wing doesnt hit the back of the car!). Any thoughts on this
idea? I don't have any vertical obstructions between the airport and my
house, and I'd do this at 0500 on a Sunday morning to avoid too many cars on
the highway!
Dan
RV-6 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Actually I can't help but chime in on this one....the manual flaps are not
"instant" activating...I had two rather nasty instances of having to do a
fairly emergency go-around because of other aircraft....when you have to
apply full throttle and have full flaps in, the pressure transmitted back up
through the linkage makes depressing the release button too difficult to do
with one hand, so much so that I could not do it. Yes, I am fairly
physically fit and reasonably strong. I had to "hit" the button with my left
hand while depressing the button with my right thumb in order to release it,
but then at 10-feet off the deck at 95-MPH who's flying the plane?
In this type of situation the manual release is a trap. I found the RV6 will
fly at 95MPH with full flaps just fine, and best course is to just keep
going until you get some altitude and can use both hands to release the
latch button.
I put in the electric flaps as a safety move and think it was a very wise
thing to do. You can just reach over and flip the flap motor switch and keep
on hand on the stick where it belongs. FWIW
RV6A Flying Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Oke" <wjoke(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach nutplates |
Hello Jeff;
I cut off the threaded portion of a #8 flathead screw leaving just enough
shank to center the screwhead in a 5/32" or whatever hole. I then used my
hand squeezer to press the "stubby" screw head down flush into a previously
attached platenut. Quick and easy and, I would guess, a lot cheaper than
buying a specialized #8 dimpling set for the 12 or so holes involved !
About the same technique as Mark Phillips describes below without worrying
about stripping the screwhead and or having the screw jam in place.
I'll be doing this soon to wing #2 on my -6A.
Jim Oke
Wiinipeg, MB
>
> Hi Jeff-
>
> This may sound a little barbaric, but it worked well for me. Install the
> platenuts in this area and simply drive a screw into the plate, dimpling
> the spar flange as it goes in. Use a proper size screwdriver or bit that
> is not worn so you don't strip out the screw head or torque the screw
> enough to break it. (used a screw that came with the kit) I didn't snap
> any of the screws off, but if you do and can't get it out, you'll just
have
> to drill out the platenut and start over. When all were done, the tank
> fitted quite nicely.
>
> From the PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
> Jeff Point wrote:
>
> >
> > While waiting for the Proseal to dry, I am putting the nutplates in the
> > wings to hold the tanks. On the bottom row (the one that gets dimpled)
> > the innermost 5 or 6 screw holes are too close the the flange strips to
> > get the #8 dimple die anywhere near them. This is on a 6 with
> > pre-punched skins. With the pre-punched skins, I am sure I'm not the
> > first one to encounter this. Have people been just countersinking the
> > few that don't fit, or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first
> > time.)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jeff Point
> > -6 wings, @#$%&* tanks
> > Milwaukee, WI
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
To the original poster,
You can probably find much in the archives on this as well. I seem to
remember a few flame wars over this very topic. The consensus always seems
to be: RV-X's have excellent short field performance, but don't try it
unless you're sure that you and your ship are ready for it. (It's a team
effort)
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Tedd McHenry [mailto:tedd(at)vansairforce.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:09 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: new guy
Going back to the original message, though, the question was
not
specifically about first flights, or flight tests at all.
It was only
about the suitability of a 1,000' strip for an RV-6 or -7.
My RV time is
pretty limited, but the consensus of more experienced pilots
(and Van,
evidently) appears to be that 1,000' is fine.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: new guy |
Scott:
Not sure if you received my off-list message, so I will attempt over the
list. (Sorry Guys). I would be happy to have you come down and have a look
at my 6A project. Send me an email off list if you are interested.
jorear(at)mari.net
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott and Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Date: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: RV6-List: new guy
>--> RV6-List message posted by: Scott and Pam Trask
>
> I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a guy need? 1000
>feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who would mind if I
take
>a look at your project?
> Scott Trask
> Iron Mountain MI
> 49801
> (906) 779 9157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UMA Gauges (Lighted) |
Everybody should know about a great company called Small Parts. They
have a great stock of fittings, material and specialty components. I have
used them a lot for special projects. No minimum order and second day
delivery for a $6 shipping and handling charge. They have a nice catalog
they'd be happy to send you, and their website is http://www.smallparts.com/
I just noticed a electroluminescent lighting system they receintly added
to the catalog and thought it might work nicely under the glare shield for
illumination. You can see it on their web site.
Dave Burton
RV6A, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
I'm sure you've considered this, but I don't think you'd want to transport
the plane literally on its nose. I can't imagine the crankshaft, prop
attach, etc., are stressed for this, even if much of the weight is supported
elsewhere.
The only way I'd consider is a cradle for the wings. Even then, I wouldn't.
Again, it seems you're stressing structure in ways and directions for which
it wasn't designed.
Rick McCraw
rmccraw(at)wcvt.com
Bonanza pilot. Not a builder yet, but strongly considering an RV-7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
How soon we forget the past. They made racks on casters to tip up Piper
Cubs on their nose so they could be stacked in a hanger.
The crankshaft pulls the entire weight of the plane in the air, why
shouldn't be able to do the same one the ground?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 8:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
>
> I'm sure you've considered this, but I don't think you'd want to transport
> the plane literally on its nose. I can't imagine the crankshaft, prop
> attach, etc., are stressed for this, even if much of the weight is
supported
> elsewhere.
>
> The only way I'd consider is a cradle for the wings. Even then, I
wouldn't.
> Again, it seems you're stressing structure in ways and directions for
which
> it wasn't designed.
>
> Rick McCraw
> rmccraw(at)wcvt.com
>
> Bonanza pilot. Not a builder yet, but strongly considering an RV-7.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | RV6/6A/7/7A/9A forward floor mat |
Lister,
A while back there was a discussion about how to fill up the space
between stiffeners under the carpet on the forward floor in the 6/6A (and now
7/7A/9A). There were many good suggestions offered. We now have a product
that is fire retardant to meet FAR 25.853b, light weight and will not absorb
water, oil or fuel. It is 3/4" thick so one layer will do the job. It will
also insulate for noise and heat. It is 4 feet wide and by our calculations,
2 1/3 running feet are needed for the forward floor. It is around $45 plus
shipping for this quantity. Please give us a call (940) 648-0841, email or
fax (940) 648-0842 if we can help you.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
The answer here is shock impact resulting in high g loading due to short
accel and decel lenghts if we are talking about the prop flange
connected to a solid object.
tell you what, hold your hand in the air and hit it with a hammer,
probably smarts a little. Now place your hand on your concrete patio and
hit it with the same hammer and the same force ( no cheating here ;-).
Which one hurt more ?? probably when you hand was between the hammer and
the concrete. why ?? because now your hand had to absorb the impact.
your hand could not accelerate through the air.
now imagine the prop flange/crank is your hand and the hammer is the
fuse weight on top of it .................
Gert
p.s. this of course does not take into consideration the possebility of
bending the prop flange by using the fuse as a lever with no way to move
for the prop flange.
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> How soon we forget the past. They made racks on casters to tip up Piper
> Cubs on their nose so they could be stacked in a hanger.
>
> The crankshaft pulls the entire weight of the plane in the air, why
> shouldn't be able to do the same one the ground?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 8:06 PM
> Subject: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
>
> >
> > I'm sure you've considered this, but I don't think you'd want to transport
> > the plane literally on its nose. I can't imagine the crankshaft, prop
> > attach, etc., are stressed for this, even if much of the weight is
> supported
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > The only way I'd consider is a cradle for the wings. Even then, I
> wouldn't.
> > Again, it seems you're stressing structure in ways and directions for
> which
> > it wasn't designed.
> >
> > Rick McCraw
> > rmccraw(at)wcvt.com
> >
> > Bonanza pilot. Not a builder yet, but strongly considering an RV-7.
> >
> >
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com> |
quick question:
About how much does an IO-360 weigh without prop?
Thanks,
--Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
293 lbs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Cherroff
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: IO-360 Weight?
quick question:
About how much does an IO-360 weigh without prop?
Thanks,
--Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 Weight? |
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)home.com> |
330lbs +-
--
Shelby Smith
rvaitor(at)home.com
RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
N95EB - reserved
> From: "Sam Cherroff" <sam(at)videoassist.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:20:34 -0700
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: IO-360 Weight?
>
> quick question:
> About how much does an IO-360 weigh without prop?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
I am presuming that the trailer has pneumatic wheels and that the prop
cradle is padded plus much of the weight is sitting on the main gear. In
fact one may have to tie the nose down so it will stay in position depending
on the center of gravity. The Piper prop cradles I saw were neither well
padded and the casters were cast iron. With a little care, driving slowly,
there should not be a problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
>
> The answer here is shock impact resulting in high g loading due to short
> accel and decel lenghts if we are talking about the prop flange
> connected to a solid object.
>
> tell you what, hold your hand in the air and hit it with a hammer,
> probably smarts a little. Now place your hand on your concrete patio and
> hit it with the same hammer and the same force ( no cheating here ;-).
>
> Which one hurt more ?? probably when you hand was between the hammer and
> the concrete. why ?? because now your hand had to absorb the impact.
> your hand could not accelerate through the air.
>
> now imagine the prop flange/crank is your hand and the hammer is the
> fuse weight on top of it .................
>
> Gert
>
> p.s. this of course does not take into consideration the possebility of
> bending the prop flange by using the fuse as a lever with no way to move
> for the prop flange.
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> >
> > How soon we forget the past. They made racks on casters to tip up Piper
> > Cubs on their nose so they could be stacked in a hanger.
> >
> > The crankshaft pulls the entire weight of the plane in the air, why
> > shouldn't be able to do the same one the ground?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 8:06 PM
> > Subject: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
> >
> > >
> > > I'm sure you've considered this, but I don't think you'd want to
transport
> > > the plane literally on its nose. I can't imagine the crankshaft, prop
> > > attach, etc., are stressed for this, even if much of the weight is
> > supported
> > > elsewhere.
> > >
> > > The only way I'd consider is a cradle for the wings. Even then, I
> > wouldn't.
> > > Again, it seems you're stressing structure in ways and directions for
> > which
> > > it wasn't designed.
> > >
> > > Rick McCraw
> > > rmccraw(at)wcvt.com
> > >
> > > Bonanza pilot. Not a builder yet, but strongly considering an RV-7.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
>
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UMA Gauges (Lighted) |
Rick, I put in four of the lighted bezels, and really like what I see. Only
possible downside is AC noise in the avionics, and since I'm not flying, I
can't say for sure I won't have it. In ground tests, it doesn't get into
the audio system, and doesn't affect compass which is 5 inches away from the
little inverter.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
>UMA has lighted bezels that run $45 a bezel and
> apparently will fit any standard instrument. These are AC and UMA
> offers a converter to accommodate this. Anyone out there using these?
> Do they work?
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
It isn't necessary for the manual flap release button to be that hard to push.
If you dress the notches with a file and give them a slight angle it works just
fine. I just did mine 2 days ago. The tendency is to make the notches too
precise a fit - they need just a little slop.
Dave
John wrote:
>
> Actually I can't help but chime in on this one....the manual flaps are not
> "instant" activating...I had two rather nasty instances of having to do a
> fairly emergency go-around because of other aircraft....when you have to
> apply full throttle and have full flaps in, the pressure transmitted back up
> through the linkage makes depressing the release button too difficult to do
> with one hand, so much so that I could not do it. Yes, I am fairly
> physically fit and reasonably strong. I had to "hit" the button with my left
> hand while depressing the button with my right thumb in order to release it,
> but then at 10-feet off the deck at 95-MPH who's flying the plane?
>
> In this type of situation the manual release is a trap. I found the RV6 will
> fly at 95MPH with full flaps just fine, and best course is to just keep
> going until you get some altitude and can use both hands to release the
> latch button.
>
> I put in the electric flaps as a safety move and think it was a very wise
> thing to do. You can just reach over and flip the flap motor switch and keep
> on hand on the stick where it belongs. FWIW
>
> RV6A Flying Salida, CO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 8:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Flaps
>
> Actually I can't help but chime in on this one....the manual flaps are not
> "instant" activating...I had two rather nasty instances of having to do a
> fairly emergency go-around because of other aircraft....when you have to
> apply full throttle and have full flaps in, the pressure transmitted back
up
> through the linkage makes depressing the release button too difficult to
do
> with one hand, so much so that I could not do it. Yes, I am fairly
> physically fit and reasonably strong. I had to "hit" the button with my
left
> hand while depressing the button with my right thumb in order to release
it,
> but then at 10-feet off the deck at 95-MPH who's flying the plane?
>
> In this type of situation the manual release is a trap. I found the RV6
will
> fly at 95MPH with full flaps just fine, and best course is to just keep
> going until you get some altitude and can use both hands to release the
> latch button.
>
> I put in the electric flaps as a safety move and think it was a very wise
> thing to do. You can just reach over and flip the flap motor switch and
keep
> on hand on the stick where it belongs. FWIW
>
> RV6A Flying Salida, CO
>
A different point of view regarding a manual flap trap. The only time and
circumstance when I could not get my manual flaps to function properly was
when I was in such a hurry to get them down( in this case). I could not
depressed the release button no matter how hard I pushed much as you
described (and since this was my first flight in an RV-6 plus it was the
first flight of the aircraft, I was not about to release the stick - so I
landed flaps up). However, I found that the problem was caused because I
was pulling on the flap handle causing the release bolt to bind which trying
to punch in the flap release button. Once I adopted a procedure of always
pushing down slightly to unload the release bolt in the slot, I never had a
problem of getting the flaps up or down with one hand. This of course could
be effected by length of flap handle, tightness of bolt in the slot, etc.
I prefer manual flaps, but can understand why others may prefer electric
flaps. Fortunately, we have a design that accommodates either preference.
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
Disclaimer !
My emails in this matter are in no way to be conceived as an 'attack' on
Cy. i have always enjoyed his contributions to the web and hope I will
enjoy them for a long time.
This whole subject, however, is of interest to me.
Cy is, of course correct, that yes you can hang your airplane from the
prop flange and yes, you can stand your whole airplane on top of the
prop flange all day long. The trick comes when you try and move it.
As Cy pointed out, you have to take it slooowly. It is quite easy to get
the trailer bouncing with a higher frequency, especially trailers
without shock absorbers, than the prop flange, or for that matter, the
motormount (!!), landing gear or instruments can handle.
There is a distinct difference between a very hard landing and
subsequent bounces and an airframe tied to a trailer.
at a hard landing, the plane bouces and absorbs energy at it's own pace
and frequency.
On a trailer you are trying to force a 'vibration' upon the airframe at
a frequency for which the various shock mounts were not designed.
Especially those airframes tied reaaaaaly well to the borrowed car
hauling trailers. As Ty said, take it sloooowly and take your time.
Gert
p.s.
A couple of years ago there was a (sad) story circulating about a person
who had to truck a plane home from the (sc)Airventure in OSH in a rented
truck.
Got to a relatively bad piece of road and either tore the rubber mounts
off or cracked the motormount, can't remember which. I believe they
ended up separating the prop and engine from the airframe before
continuing.
Gert
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> I am presuming that the trailer has pneumatic wheels and that the prop
> cradle is padded plus much of the weight is sitting on the main gear. In
> fact one may have to tie the nose down so it will stay in position depending
> on the center of gravity. The Piper prop cradles I saw were neither well
> padded and the casters were cast iron. With a little care, driving slowly,
> there should not be a problem.
>
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
I too find it not so hard to release the flap button by unloading the lever
with a slight upward force first. Perhaps 5 lbs or so.
Anh
-6/N985VU
Maryland
>
>It isn't necessary for the manual flap release button to be that hard to push.
>If you dress the notches with a file and give them a slight angle it works just
>fine. I just did mine 2 days ago. The tendency is to make the notches too
>precise a fit - they need just a little slop.
>
>Dave
>
>
>John wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually I can't help but chime in on this one....the manual flaps are not
>> "instant" activating...I had two rather nasty instances of having to do a
>> fairly emergency go-around because of other aircraft....when you have to
>> apply full throttle and have full flaps in, the pressure transmitted back up
>> through the linkage makes depressing the release button too difficult to do
>> with one hand, so much so that I could not do it. Yes, I am fairly
>> physically fit and reasonably strong. I had to "hit" the button with my left
>> hand while depressing the button with my right thumb in order to release it,
>> but then at 10-feet off the deck at 95-MPH who's flying the plane?
>>
>> In this type of situation the manual release is a trap. I found the RV6 will
>> fly at 95MPH with full flaps just fine, and best course is to just keep
>> going until you get some altitude and can use both hands to release the
>> latch button.
>>
>> I put in the electric flaps as a safety move and think it was a very wise
>> thing to do. You can just reach over and flip the flap motor switch and keep
>> on hand on the stick where it belongs. FWIW
>>
>> RV6A Flying Salida, CO
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Here's the link to the item that Dave was referring to:
http://www.engineeringfindings.com/cat21/p454.pdf
Looks interesting, what are some other opinions? Does any one have one of
these yet?
Small Parts FlatLite Kit $35.20
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rkellar(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Dummy strikes again |
Tonight I put power to the panel for the first time and to my disgust
discovered that one fuel gage reads empty and the other reads full. I must
have installed the sender up side down. Is there an electrical way to make
this gauge read correctly or do I have to fly inverted for 1/2 half of the
flight? The ultimate solution is to remove the tank (ugh!!) and turn the
sender over, rebend the float arm etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bob
Kellar rkellar(at)mediaone.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | smoking rivets in h-stab |
The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of the
skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the paint
around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These are
the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple the
spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have just
c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.) It's
happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e. how
many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I put
new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about cherry
max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 Weight? |
IO-360 200hp angle valve ABOUT 325 lbs
IO-360 180hp straight valve ABOUT 285 lbs
mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
Steve,
One reason folks like the electric flaps on an RV4 is to get the flap handle
out of the way of the passengers feet. Not sure on the others if the handle
is a bother. I would think it might be.
Thank god it's NOT an airbus!
Russ
HRII
>. I am also puzzling why people want electric flaps. To me they are
> slow. I fly out of a short strip. Being able to have instant flap on/off
is
> useful but I see lots of people putting electric flaps in. Its not an
> Airbus! Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
Hello Cy,
A four wheeled trailer smoothes out much of the nastiness that the two
wheeled trailers lacking shocks suffer.
Also, If the distance is not great and the speed can be kept down, lowering
the tire pressure so that they get quite spongy will damp out almost any
vibes. big oversized tires on low pressure work even better.
I'll bet you can do it.
Flying is fun, take off eh {:-)!
Jim - Engine mounted for fitting, YUM!
----- Original Message -----
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
>
> Disclaimer !
>
> My emails in this matter are in no way to be conceived as an 'attack' on
> Cy. i have always enjoyed his contributions to the web and hope I will
> enjoy them for a long time.
>
> This whole subject, however, is of interest to me.
>
> Cy is, of course correct, that yes you can hang your airplane from the
> prop flange and yes, you can stand your whole airplane on top of the
> prop flange all day long. The trick comes when you try and move it.
>
> As Cy pointed out, you have to take it slooowly. It is quite easy to get
> the trailer bouncing with a higher frequency, especially trailers
> without shock absorbers, than the prop flange, or for that matter, the
> motormount (!!), landing gear or instruments can handle.
>
> There is a distinct difference between a very hard landing and
> subsequent bounces and an airframe tied to a trailer.
>
> at a hard landing, the plane bouces and absorbs energy at it's own pace
> and frequency.
> On a trailer you are trying to force a 'vibration' upon the airframe at
> a frequency for which the various shock mounts were not designed.
>
> Especially those airframes tied reaaaaaly well to the borrowed car
> hauling trailers. As Ty said, take it sloooowly and take your time.
>
> Gert
>
> p.s.
> A couple of years ago there was a (sad) story circulating about a person
> who had to truck a plane home from the (sc)Airventure in OSH in a rented
> truck.
>
> Got to a relatively bad piece of road and either tore the rubber mounts
> off or cracked the motormount, can't remember which. I believe they
> ended up separating the prop and engine from the airframe before
> continuing.
>
> Gert
>
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am presuming that the trailer has pneumatic wheels and that the prop
> > cradle is padded plus much of the weight is sitting on the main gear. In
> > fact one may have to tie the nose down so it will stay in position
depending
> > on the center of gravity. The Piper prop cradles I saw were neither well
> > padded and the casters were cast iron. With a little care, driving
slowly,
> > there should not be a problem.
> >
>
>
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/03/01 |
<<>>
Well... Originally I hadn't planned on removing the prop or cowl. But,
lately I've done some drawings and it appears I should remove both of them,
and perhaps support some of the weight via the engine mounts or perhaps even
the engine itself after doing so.
But the basic weight was going to be on the main gear, just tipped
forward. And there shouldn't be any weight on the nose (engine, prop, etc),
because the plane would being kept from tipping any further via a couple of
steel rods in an "A" shape connected to the tailwheel structure.
Imagine a triangle of support like this: main gear -- tail wheel-- steel
rods down to the trailer. The main gear wheels would be strapped or locked
into place on the trailer, also. Wish I could include a drawing here on this
email message.
The idea is to roll the plane onto the trailer from the side of the
trailer. The main gear would roll into a trough, and then I'd clamp the
axels down to the trailer.
Then, with the help of a friend (or non-volunteer wife), I'd attach the two
steel rods to the tail wheel structure somehow, and tip the plane up. The
rods would be just the right length to attach to the side of the trailer, in
a large "A" (seen from the side which is the back end of the airplane now.)
One rod would do it, but the plane might rock sideways (fore and aft on the
trailer) as the trailer accelerated and decelerated on the highway. So, I
figured two in an A shape would stablize it.
The idea of the tip-up is to narrow the plane down to single lane width
(well, close enough) so it wouldn't hit road signs or cars going the other
way on the highway!
A cradle for the wings -- I thought about that, as an additional
stabilization, and rejected -- leading edge of wings don't really have much
support inside to hold airplane weight -- the nose ribs really just keep the
leading edge 'out there' in the right place in the windstream in flight! Not
much else! But... That does give me an idea to provide additional support
at the TIE-DOWN rings which are attached directly to the much stronger wing
spar.
The wing spar is not really made for fore-aft loads which this would be if
tipped up, but... better than using the leading edge for support!
I've transported planes simply strapped down to a flat bed truck! But,
the wings sticking out sure gave the other traffic a fit!
I once used a car-carrier trailer I rented from Uhaul, and put a 500+
pound Sonerai II on it... The wings were folded back and pinned, however.
But the darn trailer weighed about 4 times the airplane weight, and my tiny
little Ford Fiesta overheated and burned up its brakes just going up and down
one hill into the San Fernando Valley coming from Oxnard! I towed it to
Garden Grove, where I rebuilt the plane. When it was ready to fly, I
developed a simple tow bar that attached to the tail wheel structure, turned
the plane around, and towed it 70mph on its OWN wheels out to Chino Airport
where it did its first flight! I took the wheel pants off for that one, but
later got so bold I never took 'em off again. John Monnett knew how to
design an airplane for highway towing backwards!
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FlatLite Kit |
| From: | Jack <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
I'll be at the temporary office from 10-2 on Saturday. Would that time
and location work for you and Peter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
| Subject: | Re: Dummy strikes again |
Make sure you have good electical contact and ground to the unit reading empty.
You have to ground the coverplate to the airframe to get a reliable ground
contact for the fuel senders. If you don't, the gauge jumps around or.....reads
empty!
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (2 days till FLA)
>
>Tonight I put power to the panel for the first time and to my disgust
>discovered that one fuel gage reads empty and the other reads full. I must
>have installed the sender up side down. Is there an electrical way to make
>this gauge read correctly or do I have to fly inverted for 1/2 half of the
>flight? The ultimate solution is to remove the tank (ugh!!) and turn the
>sender over, rebend the float arm etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bob
>Kellar rkellar(at)mediaone.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/03/01 |
With the airplane on it's nose on the trailer, you're going to be pretty
high. Mayber higher than stoplights/overpasses. My 6QB fuse is about 14'
without engine mount or tail. Legal road height for trucks is 13'6'', though
there's usually some extra clearance. Is it that hard to take the wings off?
Ed Holyoke
6QB
----- Original Message -----
From: <DanJE(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/03/01
>
> <<>>
>
> Well... Originally I hadn't planned on removing the prop or cowl. But,
> lately I've done some drawings and it appears I should remove both of
them,
> and perhaps support some of the weight via the engine mounts or perhaps
even
> the engine itself after doing so.
> But the basic weight was going to be on the main gear, just tipped
> forward. And there shouldn't be any weight on the nose (engine, prop,
etc),
> because the plane would being kept from tipping any further via a couple
of
> steel rods in an "A" shape connected to the tailwheel structure.
> Imagine a triangle of support like this: main gear -- tail wheel--
steel
> rods down to the trailer. The main gear wheels would be strapped or
locked
> into place on the trailer, also. Wish I could include a drawing here on
this
> email message.
>
> The idea is to roll the plane onto the trailer from the side of the
> trailer. The main gear would roll into a trough, and then I'd clamp the
> axels down to the trailer.
> Then, with the help of a friend (or non-volunteer wife), I'd attach the
two
> steel rods to the tail wheel structure somehow, and tip the plane up. The
> rods would be just the right length to attach to the side of the trailer,
in
> a large "A" (seen from the side which is the back end of the airplane
now.)
> One rod would do it, but the plane might rock sideways (fore and aft on
the
> trailer) as the trailer accelerated and decelerated on the highway. So, I
> figured two in an A shape would stablize it.
>
> The idea of the tip-up is to narrow the plane down to single lane
width
> (well, close enough) so it wouldn't hit road signs or cars going the other
> way on the highway!
>
> A cradle for the wings -- I thought about that, as an additional
> stabilization, and rejected -- leading edge of wings don't really have
much
> support inside to hold airplane weight -- the nose ribs really just keep
the
> leading edge 'out there' in the right place in the windstream in flight!
Not
> much else! But... That does give me an idea to provide additional
support
> at the TIE-DOWN rings which are attached directly to the much stronger
wing
> spar.
> The wing spar is not really made for fore-aft loads which this would be
if
> tipped up, but... better than using the leading edge for support!
>
> I've transported planes simply strapped down to a flat bed truck!
But,
> the wings sticking out sure gave the other traffic a fit!
> I once used a car-carrier trailer I rented from Uhaul, and put a 500+
> pound Sonerai II on it... The wings were folded back and pinned, however.
> But the darn trailer weighed about 4 times the airplane weight, and my
tiny
> little Ford Fiesta overheated and burned up its brakes just going up and
down
> one hill into the San Fernando Valley coming from Oxnard! I towed it to
> Garden Grove, where I rebuilt the plane. When it was ready to fly, I
> developed a simple tow bar that attached to the tail wheel structure,
turned
> the plane around, and towed it 70mph on its OWN wheels out to Chino
Airport
> where it did its first flight! I took the wheel pants off for that one,
but
> later got so bold I never took 'em off again. John Monnett knew how to
> design an airplane for highway towing backwards!
>
> Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Markdews(at)AOL.COM |
I have misplaced my installation diagram for the Vetterman system.
I brought it into the house to study it and evidently my wife "put it up" for
me.
Can anyone supply me with a copy of the mounting drawing ?
A scan would be great or a picture of the actual mounting.
I am mounting on an RV-6A.
Mark Dews
markdews(at)aol.com
Working on cowling and engine
hope to fly mid summer if I can get a HANGAR!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dummy strikes again |
You didn't state which plane you are building, but if it is a -6/A, you
can remove the sender without removing the tank. You will probably need
a right angle screwdriver.
Good luck,
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, prepped for S-N-F)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
=================
Robert Kellar wrote:
>
>
> Tonight I put power to the panel for the first time and to my disgust
> discovered that one fuel gage reads empty and the other reads full. I must
> have installed the sender up side down. Is there an electrical way to make
> this gauge read correctly or do I have to fly inverted for 1/2 half of the
> flight? The ultimate solution is to remove the tank (ugh!!) and turn the
> sender over, rebend the float arm etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bob
> Kellar rkellar(at)mediaone.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Vetterman help |
The Vetterman exaust or the VG's?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 oil door latch |
RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
receptacle. What have I done wrong? Seems like there is no way to make the
camloks work. any ideas? I did look in the archives but could not find any
reference to this problem. But maybe I didn't look in the right place.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
I have had both manual and electric on my RV and I like electric flaps
much better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | smoking rivets in h-stab |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
Thread-Index: AcC8zghYl0tvGrkxRKWptk7JEswCJwAQqP0Q
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Randall,
One thing I've learned that I won't do on the next project is
countersink .032 skins. It's a common problem on RV empennages. I had
2-3 rivets on the VS start smoking, and after I had my prop dynamically
balanced it stopped. It sure doesn't hurt to have the prop balanced if
you haven't done so already; when I had it done on my airplane the
results were dramatic. If that doesn't stop the root cause of the
problem, I'd suggest waiting till you're bored and can't fly next winter
and fix it then. I've seen RV's with many smoking rivets on the tail
and wings (countersunk wing root skins, along all of the HS rear spar
rivets) and have never heard of any sort of failure, so don't sweat it
now unless it really bothers you.
Cherry max rivets are your best bet for doing a quick repair, and
they're almost as strong as a driven rivet. I don't think it would be
necessary to add more rivets, unless it makes you feel more comfortable
doing so.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Henderson [mailto:randallh(at)home.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of
the
skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the
paint
around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These
are
the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple
the
spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have
just
c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.)
It's
happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e.
how
many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I
put
new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about
cherry
max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flaps |
> > I am also puzzling why people want electric flaps. To me they are
> > slow....
> >One reason folks like the electric flaps on an RV4 is to get the flap handle
> >out of the way of the passengers feet.
I think one of the reasons folks like electric flaps is the ease of
lowering the flaps, especially that last notch. If you are not slowed down
enough on base or final (where ever you throw on that last notch), they can
take some arm strength to yank on. Any speed above 85 and it can become
quite the aerobic exercise. The solution: 1) you should be slowed down for
the final degrees of flaps; 2) stay in shape.
There is also the issue of go-around with full flaps. In these airplanes,
it isn't a problem in most cases: the airplane will fly/climb with full
flaps (and should be part of your test flying, by the way). They can be a
bear to retract out of full position due to the now full throttle airflow
against them. Problem is, you have to get them up sometime before you over
speed the maximum flap speed. I have found application of full throttle
initially on most go-arounds is not necessary. The circumstances leading to
a go-around are usually evident well before the throttle is shoved forward.
Half throttle or so can allow you time to get the flaps to the first notch,
then full throttle and retract flaps. Again, with electric flaps, it isn't
an issue because there isn't a notch to get them out of.
The above thread about the handle/button sticking is also a moot point in
electric flaps.
I have manual flaps on Suzie Q and like 'em. I have foot wells for the
passenger and, except for my nephew (size 12 feet), the handle being in the
way is not a problem. Putting on flaps is part of my running narration
anyway and occasionally someone has to move their foot.
Electric flaps on the -6/-7/-9 series takes the handle out of the way of
the passengers. I've heard it can be awkward to pull on final notch with
someone sitting next to you. I'm a tandem man, myself.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
OK, I'm gonna be lowering the flaps; handle is by your left foot here.
Watch them on the back of the wing. Thunk. Flaps are cool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
I would urge caution on a 1000 ft. strip. It could be a disaster for a
number of reasons. 1-A student
2-low time or weekend pilot 3-A fixed
pitch cruise prop with 2 big guys with full tanks
4 Or the main reason. In about 1957 Bert Hassel's (I believe I spelled
the name right) son landed a V-tail Bonanza on a 1100 ft. in Blytheville
Ark. Well, you know the rest . To far down to take off and couldn't
stop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | smoking rivets in h-stab |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/04/2001 11:32:26 AM
Geez, you guys are killing me. I build my HS back in 93 and if the memory
serves the instruction manual said to CS the .032 skins as they were too
thick to dimple. Well, we all know thats not true but what did I know then,
I noticed the directions changed some time after that. So the tail is
mounted and I'm getting close to having a flying machine and close to
painting. It has bothered me for years that those skins are countersunk.
There are probably 25% of the flying rv's with CS tails and no failures so
I guess I'll just press on and suck it up. Can't wait to see Tyler Feldmans
plane in 5 years with those nice flat cs wing skins. <;-) Lesson to be
learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN! Strength before
cosmetics.
Eric Henson
"Bob Japundza" (at)matronics.com on 04/04/2001
10:37:09 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
Randall,
One thing I've learned that I won't do on the next project is
countersink .032 skins. It's a common problem on RV empennages. I had
2-3 rivets on the VS start smoking, and after I had my prop dynamically
balanced it stopped. It sure doesn't hurt to have the prop balanced if
you haven't done so already; when I had it done on my airplane the
results were dramatic. If that doesn't stop the root cause of the
problem, I'd suggest waiting till you're bored and can't fly next winter
and fix it then. I've seen RV's with many smoking rivets on the tail
and wings (countersunk wing root skins, along all of the HS rear spar
rivets) and have never heard of any sort of failure, so don't sweat it
now unless it really bothers you.
Cherry max rivets are your best bet for doing a quick repair, and
they're almost as strong as a driven rivet. I don't think it would be
necessary to add more rivets, unless it makes you feel more comfortable
doing so.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Henderson [mailto:randallh(at)home.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of
the
skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the
paint
around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These
are
the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple
the
spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have
just
c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.)
It's
happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e.
how
many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I
put
new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about
cherry
max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
> > The RV-6's used a vernier type control for the elevator trim. I found
that
> > there was to much slop in the cable, especially after the cable made
> almost a
> > 180 turn to fit into the console of the RV-6.
Its the same on mine. I was wondering if maybe a spring at the trim tab
cable ttach point might help. Has anyone tried this?
As for the flaps -- manual works well on Cessnas where the handle is down on
the floor, but I've flown RVs with both types and much prefer the electric
due to the different geometry (handle up next to your hip) and resulting
gymnastics required to operate the manual.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking rivets in h-stab |
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> Geez, you guys are killing me. I build my HS back in 93 and if the memory
> serves the instruction manual said to CS the .032 skins as they were too
> thick to dimple. Well, we all know thats not true but what did I know then,
> I noticed the directions changed some time after that. So the tail is
> mounted and I'm getting close to having a flying machine and close to
> painting. It has bothered me for years that those skins are countersunk.
> There are probably 25% of the flying rv's with CS tails and no failures so
> I guess I'll just press on and suck it up. Can't wait to see Tyler Feldmans
> plane in 5 years with those nice flat cs wing skins. <;-) Lesson to be
> learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN! Strength before
> cosmetics.
>
> Eric Henson
>
I think the above line should read " DIMPLE EVERTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN!"
Gary Zilik ( countersunk empenage flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
My $.02 as regards the 1000 ft strip question:
I have lots of experience on a 2100 foot strip at my house with the 150 hp
fixed pitch 6A. Even at gross on a summer day with a 5-10 mph tailwind, I
have yet to use more than 1000 feet for ground roll, though under those
conditions I have used mighty close to it. The difficulty is more in getting
stopped in 1000 feet every time. It is hard on the brakes and the turf to
try to make a shortest-possible landing. On a soggy day you will tear ruts
in the runway doing this. Shoot, on a recent soggy day, I made ruts doing a
full static run-up with the brakes held. Not a good way to treat your turf.
It takes lots of practice to hit the numbers every time, and with only 1000
feet of useable runway ahead of you, you want to hit the sweet spot on every
attempt at landing. Short field technique in an RV requires dragging it in
under power at 60 mph indicated, well behind the power curve, and you will
plop it in hard during the learning process. Why subject your airframe to
this?
If you want me to toss out a number, I'd say I would be happy if my runway
was only 1500 feet, but no shorter. Too many variables otherwise to assure
your comfort and safety. BTW, my comments apply to a reasonably level field,
elevation 1000 ft. Density altitude, slope and braking conditions will
affect the decision.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
Hop-Along Airfield - 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: smoking rivets in h-stab |
In a message dated 04/04/2001 11:39:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
<< Lesson to be
learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN! Strength before
cosmetics. >>
Didn't you mean DIMPLE everything you can?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Correction: smoking rivets in h-stab |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/04/2001 12:40:16 PM
Oh man I'm loosing it. I meant to say "DIMPLE EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN".
I need to go drink beer at a very large airshow for a few days. That should
help.
Eric
Eric J. Henson/CHASE(at)CHASE@matronics.com on 04/04/2001 11:32:15 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
Geez, you guys are killing me. I build my HS back in 93 and if the memory
serves the instruction manual said to CS the .032 skins as they were too
thick to dimple. Well, we all know thats not true but what did I know then,
I noticed the directions changed some time after that. So the tail is
mounted and I'm getting close to having a flying machine and close to
painting. It has bothered me for years that those skins are countersunk.
There are probably 25% of the flying rv's with CS tails and no failures so
I guess I'll just press on and suck it up. Can't wait to see Tyler Feldmans
plane in 5 years with those nice flat cs wing skins. <;-) Lesson to be
learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN! Strength before
cosmetics.
Eric Henson
"Bob Japundza" (at)matronics.com on 04/04/2001
10:37:09 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
Randall,
One thing I've learned that I won't do on the next project is
countersink .032 skins. It's a common problem on RV empennages. I had
2-3 rivets on the VS start smoking, and after I had my prop dynamically
balanced it stopped. It sure doesn't hurt to have the prop balanced if
you haven't done so already; when I had it done on my airplane the
results were dramatic. If that doesn't stop the root cause of the
problem, I'd suggest waiting till you're bored and can't fly next winter
and fix it then. I've seen RV's with many smoking rivets on the tail
and wings (countersunk wing root skins, along all of the HS rear spar
rivets) and have never heard of any sort of failure, so don't sweat it
now unless it really bothers you.
Cherry max rivets are your best bet for doing a quick repair, and
they're almost as strong as a driven rivet. I don't think it would be
necessary to add more rivets, unless it makes you feel more comfortable
doing so.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Henderson [mailto:randallh(at)home.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of
the
skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the
paint
around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These
are
the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple
the
spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have
just
c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.)
It's
happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e.
how
many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I
put
new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about
cherry
max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil door latch |
My 8A has a similar situation. I used pliers to "exercise" the camloc a few
times and it seemed to help. The root cause as you've probably surmised is
the thickness of the cowl. I guess one could remove a bit of material
(bringing the pins closer to the receptacle) and the camloc would work a bit
easier.
Good luck.
Rick Jory, Highlands Ranch, CO RV8A QB
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 oil door latch
>
> RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
> door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
> receptacle. What have I done wrong? Seems like there is no way to make the
> camloks work. any ideas? I did look in the archives but could not find any
> reference to this problem. But maybe I didn't look in the right place.
> Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
Cy wrote:
> The crankshaft pulls the entire weight of the plane in the air, why
> shouldn't be able to do the same one the ground?
I wonder. They say it is bad to pull or push aircraft by the prop. Also,
isn't the thrust load on the prop of an RV only about 500 pounds? In other
words, it is **NOT** the weight of the airplane but the total drag. Thrust
equals drag, huh?
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil door latch |
>
>RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
>door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
>receptacle. What have I done wrong? Seems like there is no way to make the
>camloks work. any ideas? I did look in the archives but could not find any
>reference to this problem. But maybe I didn't look in the right place.
>Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing.
Larry, If you installed the camloks properly, they very well may NOT
work. Because of the curvature of the cowl, and the fact that the oil door
is so small, the protruding stud hits the cowl at an angle, rather than
going straight down into the receptacle. The solution that I have seen on
numerous RV-4's, including my own is to eliminate the retaining washer, or
to leave it loosely fitting. This lets you jiggle the camloks around till
they slide into the receptacle. If the holes in the cowl are small enough,
the camloks will not fall out. When the holes begin to wear, you may have
to do some mall plastic surgery. But that's a few years down the road. I
have not tried this, but: A small rubber "O" ring in place of the retainer
washer might solve this problem.
Louis
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
RV-4, N180PF, 70 hrs. and climbing fast
I0-360, Hartzell C/S
(610) 668-4964
Penn Valley, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil door latch |
In a message dated 4/4/01 7:33:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lhawkins(at)giant.com writes:
>
> RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
> door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
> receptacle. What have I done wrong? Seems like there is no way to make the
> camloks work. any ideas? I did look in the archives but could not find any
> reference to this problem. But maybe I didn't look in the right place.
> Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing.
>
>
>
Larry, scrap the camlocs altogether and use a hinge, its easy to install and
works great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <steve(at)lbho.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: new guy |
Scott - your message interests me because I fly a Supercub out of a 1000'
grass strip and am shortly planning to order an RV9 kit. I would order a -7
except for the 1000'. Now I know nothing about building but do know a little
about operating off a short dirt strip.
The thing that I have learned is that lots of people will talk about what
they can do with their aircraft but getting them to do it is another thing.
An example was a guy with an Aviat Husky - a short field plane like the
S'cub. He could land in 300'....my strip would be 'no problem'. He arrived
overhead, circled round a bit and radioed he would go to the nearest
licensed airfield. In the later discussion his issues were 1) A low fence on
approach - true, 2) 40' trees at the end - true, 3) the wind was not
directly down but cross - true. (In other words a typical short strip! On
the particular day the grass was dry.) Now in my S'cub I go in and out
several times most weeks, usually land 75' beyond the fence and use another
300' to dissipate the energy - I approach around 45mph. It works but its
very easy to get wrong and use a lot more.
Saturday I had my first ride in an RV6. The owner / builder made no claims
to be a great pilot - he had about 400hrs on this aircraft - new I was
interested in its ability to land short but landed as he was comfortable. Of
the 2000' available he used at a guess 1100'. It was an in to wind runway.
My point is that there is a lot of talk but if all you have is 1000' you
have to do it right on the good days and the bad. When you are feeling A1
and when you are less than perfect. Doing it wrong once is once too many
times. If you need 1050' you will have a bent aeroplane. If you use 975'
you will have a severely stressed heart!
Now I expect there will be a wall of protest to this mail. I know Van's own
strip is short. I am sure many will say they neeed nothing like 1000', and I
am sure its true. I wonder how many regularly use a 1000' with a brick wall
at the end and perhaps have to accept a 5knot tailwind or 15/20 knots
gusting across - on a hot day with wet grass? Some I am sure CAN do it
safely.
For my part, later this month i am going to fly an RV9 at the factory then
(subject to my reaction) order. I will try to also fly a -7 but will take
LOTS of convincing.
Good luck! Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott and Pam Trask" <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:37 AM
Subject: RV6-List: new guy
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Scott and Pam Trask
>
> I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a guy need? 1000
> feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who would mind if I
take
> a look at your project?
> Scott Trask
> Iron Mountain MI
> 49801
> (906) 779 9157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rpflanze(at)iquest.net |
| Subject: | smoking rivets in h-stab |
Another lesson learned.....
The more important the message, the more likely you are to get is bass ackward
when you try to type it!! :>}
>Lesson to be learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN!
or is that DIMPLE EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLE CAN!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: smoking rivets in h-stab |
In a message dated 4/4/01 8:39:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
<< Lesson to be learned new guys: COUNTER SINK EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN!
Strength before cosmetics. >>
Don't want to put words in your mouth Eric but didn't you mean to say DIMPLE?
It has long been my understanding that a dimpled joint is far stronger than a
counter sunk joint, which is why Van now recommends dimpling the 0.040 fwd
bottom skin on the 6/6A.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dummy strikes again |
Bob,
I have removed my sending units a couple of times without removing the tanks
or wings. There should be just enough room between the fuselage and wing to
get your hands and tools in there. I used an offset screwdriver which made
it very easy.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Robert Kellar" <rkellar(at)mediaone.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV-List"
>Subject: RV-List: Dummy strikes again
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:28:20 -0700
>
>
>Tonight I put power to the panel for the first time and to my disgust
>discovered that one fuel gage reads empty and the other reads full. I must
>have installed the sender up side down. Is there an electrical way to make
>this gauge read correctly or do I have to fly inverted for 1/2 half of the
>flight? The ultimate solution is to remove the tank (ugh!!) and turn the
>sender over, rebend the float arm etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bob
>Kellar rkellar(at)mediaone.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dummy strikes again |
Bob,
I have removed my sending units a couple of times without removing the tanks
or wings. There should be just enough room between the fuselage and wing to
get your hands and tools in there. I used an offset screwdriver which made
it very easy.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Robert Kellar" <rkellar(at)mediaone.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV-List"
>Subject: RV-List: Dummy strikes again
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:28:20 -0700
>
>
>Tonight I put power to the panel for the first time and to my disgust
>discovered that one fuel gage reads empty and the other reads full. I must
>have installed the sender up side down. Is there an electrical way to make
>this gauge read correctly or do I have to fly inverted for 1/2 half of the
>flight? The ultimate solution is to remove the tank (ugh!!) and turn the
>sender over, rebend the float arm etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bob
>Kellar rkellar(at)mediaone.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking rivets in h-stab |
Randall,
Sorry to hear about the smoking rivets. Especially because of the work
involving new paint. Because of the thickness (thinness?) of the skin you
want to avoid any wearing away of material. IF we were to use the standards
of AC43.231B and other aircraft manufacturing documents smoking rivets are
not allowed at all. Cherrymax rivets are always interchangable with solid
ones. I could suggest a drop of epoxy glue in the hole before setting the
new rivet. If you can find anyone building a wood plane and they have some
T-88 structural epoxy that is the stuff to go. I've used that stuff to
laminate wood wing spars and it is great.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:41:03 -0700
>
>
>The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
>that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of the
>skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the
>paint
>around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These are
>the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple the
>spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have just
>c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.)
>It's
>happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
>
>I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
>
>a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e.
>how
>many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
>
>b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I put
>new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about cherry
>max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
>adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
>Portland, OR
>www.vanshomewing.org
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking rivets in h-stab |
Opps...that is supposed to read AC43.13-1B.
The other thing is the stems on the Cherrymax. I was able to use a diamond
round bit on my dremel and grind the stems flush. Then I just applied a
little epoxy filler over them, sanded it flush and painted. They came out
looking better than regular rivets after the finish paint.
Mike R.
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
>Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:53:16 -1000
>
>
>Randall,
>
>Sorry to hear about the smoking rivets. Especially because of the work
>involving new paint. Because of the thickness (thinness?) of the skin you
>want to avoid any wearing away of material. IF we were to use the
>standards
>of AC43.231B and other aircraft manufacturing documents smoking rivets are
>not allowed at all. Cherrymax rivets are always interchangable with solid
>ones. I could suggest a drop of epoxy glue in the hole before setting the
>new rivet. If you can find anyone building a wood plane and they have some
>T-88 structural epoxy that is the stuff to go. I've used that stuff to
>laminate wood wing spars and it is great.
>
>Mike Robertson
>RV-8A
>
>
> >From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: smoking rivets in h-stab
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:41:03 -0700
> >
> >
> >The recent rudder TE cracking thread got me to thinking about something
> >that's happening on my plane. On my horizontal stabilizer, several of the
> >skin-to-spar rivets have started to "smoke" (loosened up, breaking the
> >paint
> >around the rivet head and showing dark rings of aluminum dust). These are
> >the inboard rivets where I countersunk the skin since I couldn't dimple
>the
> >spar there due to interference with the spar doubler. (I should have just
> >c-sunk the spar not the skin but at the time I didn't know any better.)
> >It's
> >happening on the inboard top rivets on both sides.
> >
> >I'd be interested in any EXPERT opinions on the following:
> >
> >a) At what point does this become something that NEEDS to be fixed? I.e.
> >how
> >many rivets, degree of looseness, or any other indiciations.
> >
> >b) What would be the best way to fix it so it won't happen again? If I
>put
> >new rivets in it seems they'll likely do the same thing. How about cherry
> >max rivets -- do they have better holding power or anything? Structural
> >adhesive maybe? Do I need to add rivets between the old ones?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
> >Portland, OR
> >www.vanshomewing.org
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
I cant help it. I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would take a brand new
aircraft and engine, attempt to stand it on its nose, and move it anywhere.
Are you serious???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | NAVAID wiring diagram |
Hey All--
Can anyone FAX (941-966-8098) or mail a copy of the Navaid/Smart Coupler
wiring diagram?
Boyd Braem
804 Longbow rail
Osprey, FL 34229
Thanks much, in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
I know that it's recommended to attend the early days of the Sun-n-Fun
fly-in. But how about arriving a day early? The official start day is
Sunday, April 8th. Would arriving Saturday be a good idea? I don't want to
get there and twiddle(?) my thumbs, but also don't want to risk getting
there then having to divert, waiting on a time window for landings at
Lakeland. BTW, we plan to camp at the airport if it makes any difference.
Anyone with experience, please let me know. Thanks!
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil door latch |
Larry,
My 4 had the same problem, the arc of the door swing and the outward angle
of the door due to the cheek cause the problem. I put my receptacle in a
little extra from the lip of the cowl, this gave me the room to dremel out
the path the camlock wants to follow without digging into the an area the
door won't cover. I still have to flex the door slightly to get the camlock
in the receptacle.
Pat P
>From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RV-List: RV-4 oil door latch
>Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:41:41 -0700
>
>
>RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
>door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
>receptacle. What have I done wrong? Seems like there is no way to make the
>camloks work. any ideas? I did look in the archives but could not find any
>reference to this problem. But maybe I didn't look in the right place.
>Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, finishing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil door latch |
> > RV-4 builders I need your help. I tried to install the camloks for the oil
> > door. The stud interferes with the cowl long before the stud gets to the
> > receptacle.
OK: I can't visualize what's happening. Where/how does the stud interfere
with the cowl? As it's closing or while it's closed?
I made the "door" from the piece of cowl I cut out, with several layers of
fiberglass cloth (or mat, I can't remember which) for reinforcement,
leaving the edges the same thickness of the cowl where the camlocks
are. The camlocks went right through it and hook onto the receptacle.....
Just a second; I'm gonna go out and look....
(I used cloth for the reinforcement layers.) Camlocks go through and are
held in place by the star washers that came with them. The receptacle is
set in an aluminum rim inside the cowl that the door lies up against. The
rim is riveted into place. The door is flat when closed. I had to mess
with the holes in the aluminum to get the locks to pass, in the upper
aspect of the hole. Does this help?
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
The warning about the prop is two fold. Just small amount of rotation might
trigger the impulses and start the engine. The other deals with the turkey's
that grab the prop out by the tip. This can bend a prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
>
> Cy wrote:
> > The crankshaft pulls the entire weight of the plane in the air, why
> > shouldn't be able to do the same one the ground?
>
> I wonder. They say it is bad to pull or push aircraft by the prop. Also,
> isn't the thrust load on the prop of an RV only about 500 pounds? In
other
> words, it is **NOT** the weight of the airplane but the total drag.
Thrust
> equals drag, huh?
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/03/01 |
Brings to mind pictures of WW2 hangars here in Canada so full of Tiger Moths
that they stood them on their noses, row upon row. Didn't seem to hurt them
as they all went flying every day. However, they weren't transported in this
attitude and their landing gear was heavier and braced in multiple
directions.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DanJE(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:08 AM
Subject: RV6-List: Re: RV6-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/03/01
> --> RV6-List message posted by: DanJE(at)aol.com
>
> <<>>
>
> Well... Originally I hadn't planned on removing the prop or cowl. But,
> lately I've done some drawings and it appears I should remove both of
them,
> and perhaps support some of the weight via the engine mounts or perhaps
even
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: new guy |
I learned to fly-right up through multi-IFR- at a strip considerably shorter
than 2000 feet with rising terrain and trees at the usual into-wind
departure end. It was at 19'asl and I wasn't experienced enough to notice
any difference. Now it looks quite short, thank you.
I don't have much time in RV's but have noticed that they seem to sink
quickly below about 70mph yet have an enormous ground cushion that they
won't three-point through till 50 or less. This leads to either a
high-power, low airspeed approach or a long float in ground effect. I'm
guessing it's a characteristic of the short-span, wide-chord RV wing.
Sock it to me!
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson <steve(at)lbho.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV6-List: new guy
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>
> Scott - your message interests me because I fly a Supercub out of a 1000'
> grass strip and am shortly planning to order an RV9 kit. I would order
a -7
> except for the 1000'. Now I know nothing about building but do know a
little
> about operating off a short dirt strip.
>
> The thing that I have learned is that lots of people will talk about what
> they can do with their aircraft but getting them to do it is another
thing.
> An example was a guy with an Aviat Husky - a short field plane like the
> S'cub. He could land in 300'....my strip would be 'no problem'. He arrived
> overhead, circled round a bit and radioed he would go to the nearest
> licensed airfield. In the later discussion his issues were 1) A low fence
on
> approach - true, 2) 40' trees at the end - true, 3) the wind was not
> directly down but cross - true. (In other words a typical short strip! On
> the particular day the grass was dry.) Now in my S'cub I go in and out
> several times most weeks, usually land 75' beyond the fence and use
another
> 300' to dissipate the energy - I approach around 45mph. It works but its
> very easy to get wrong and use a lot more.
>
> Saturday I had my first ride in an RV6. The owner / builder made no claims
> to be a great pilot - he had about 400hrs on this aircraft - new I was
> interested in its ability to land short but landed as he was comfortable.
Of
> the 2000' available he used at a guess 1100'. It was an in to wind runway.
>
> My point is that there is a lot of talk but if all you have is 1000' you
> have to do it right on the good days and the bad. When you are feeling A1
> and when you are less than perfect. Doing it wrong once is once too many
> times. If you need 1050' you will have a bent aeroplane. If you use 975'
> you will have a severely stressed heart!
>
> Now I expect there will be a wall of protest to this mail. I know Van's
own
> strip is short. I am sure many will say they neeed nothing like 1000', and
I
> am sure its true. I wonder how many regularly use a 1000' with a brick
wall
> at the end and perhaps have to accept a 5knot tailwind or 15/20 knots
> gusting across - on a hot day with wet grass? Some I am sure CAN do it
> safely.
>
> For my part, later this month i am going to fly an RV9 at the factory then
> (subject to my reaction) order. I will try to also fly a -7 but will take
> LOTS of convincing.
>
> Good luck! Steve.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott and Pam Trask" <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
> To: "RV6"
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:37 AM
> Subject: RV6-List: new guy
>
>
> > --> RV6-List message posted by: Scott and Pam Trask
> >
> > I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a guy need?
1000
> > feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who would mind if I
> take
> > a look at your project?
> > Scott Trask
> > Iron Mountain MI
> > 49801
> > (906) 779 9157
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BERNIE KERR" <KERRJB(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
Bryan,
I enjoy Sat better than Sunday because there is no airshow and most
homebuillts arrive by Sat PM.
Bernie Kerr, 6A, SE Fla 90+ hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 5:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
> I know that it's recommended to attend the early days of the Sun-n-Fun
> fly-in. But how about arriving a day early? The official start day is
> Sunday, April 8th. Would arriving Saturday be a good idea? I don't want
to
> get there and twiddle(?) my thumbs,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Temporary Unsubscribing |
I will be unscribed to the list until April 16. Gone Sun & Fun
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Team Rocket fairing report |
Folks,
Like most of you I've looked at LOTS of RV's. One of the 'trouble'
areas I see most is the gear leg intersection fairings. Just wanted to pass
on report on the Team Rocked gear leg and intersection fairings I installed
on my RV6 (well, they're clecoed on anyway). I followed Sam Buchanan's words
of wisdom from his web site (thanks big time, Sam) for his installation along
with the plans that came with the fairings. I even purchased the 2 piece
wheel pants from Vans...........same as Sam. All I can say is this was money
well spent. These things fit like a glove right out of the box. Exceptional
quality (wheel pants and fairings) as well. The only real work was getting
the gear leg fairings cut to length........no problem......just the usual on
and off fitting stuff. The intersection fairings (I've seen some less than
nice... :
) ) fit perfectly. The lower intersection fairings even has
a unique 'tab' built in to secure the trailing edge.
Can you tell I like these new fairings? They even fit right over the
gear leg stiffeners I installed last week. Anyway............for those of you
contemplating making your own fairings..............order the Team Rocket
kit..........then work on something else instead.
Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm........I can see the light
now...........what do I do with the old gelcoat wheel pants that are on the
shelf :
)
please............archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: auto engines |
Subject: RV-List: auto engines
>
> Speaking of auto engines....I intend to use a 4.3 Chevy V6. If those
> that are thinking about using, or have already done so (an auto engine)
> let me know, I will keep a file (names and email addresses) on it.
> Barry Pote RV9a Wings
>
> > Donning my flame-resistant gear...
Hi Barry,
I'm flying my rotary powered RV-6A to Sun & Fun tomorrow. Send me an e
mail next week and I will put you in touch with some people using the V6.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
Bryan,
By all means, get there early. Although by doing so, you will miss the
incredible experiance of flying around that damn lake for an hour in a
pattern with about 100 other late arrivers. I got there on Sunday around
noon two years ago. I'll never forget hearing that guy on the ground
telling the King Air to "rock your wings...procede westbound, follow the J-3
cub."
Jerry Carter
8A Finishing
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
I know that it's recommended to attend the early days of the Sun-n-Fun
fly-in. But how about arriving a day early? The official start day is
Sunday, April 8th. Would arriving Saturday be a good idea? I don't want to
get there and twiddle(?) my thumbs, but also don't want to risk getting
there then having to divert, waiting on a time window for landings at
Lakeland. BTW, we plan to camp at the airport if it makes any difference.
Anyone with experience, please let me know. Thanks!
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
I have a friend who always gets there on Saturday morning. I went with him
last year and will go again this year. We drive down on Friday, check into
a hotel, and then arrive at the field early Saturday morning. Plenty of
stuff to see and you get a jump on the crowds. Camped there several years
ago and that too was fun.
Allen Fulmer, Alexander City, AL, RV7 looking
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
I know that it's recommended to attend the early days of the Sun-n-Fun
fly-in. But how about arriving a day early? The official start day is
Sunday, April 8th. Would arriving Saturday be a good idea? I don't want to
get there and twiddle(?) my thumbs, but also don't want to risk getting
there then having to divert, waiting on a time window for landings at
Lakeland. BTW, we plan to camp at the airport if it makes any difference.
Anyone with experience, please let me know. Thanks!
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID wiring diagram |
In a message dated 4/4/01 5:14:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bcbraem(at)home.com
writes:
<<
Can anyone FAX (941-966-8098) or mail a copy of the Navaid/Smart Coupler
wiring diagram?
Boyd Braem
804 Longbow rail
Osprey, FL 34229
>>
Boyd, I will fax you a copy when done with this e-mail.
Don't forget to put jumper wires between pins 3 & 11 and pins 6 & 12 if you
do not use a panel receiver.
Dale Ensing
6A O-360 finishing wiring
Aero Plantation NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings |
In a message dated 4/4/01 6:48:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aeropup(at)ionet.net
writes:
<< As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes arena
for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
coating.
Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
highlights:
1) The powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexible If
the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
its original form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress cracked or
actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because it
is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must be
removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other ways
such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
for this type of inspection. $$$
2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic pin
holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
exfoliation and catastrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from which
is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
could be a lot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may just
float over the corrosion and look normal.
Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will resist
this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily. They
are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact with
water.
I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing areas
of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A simple
dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
I do not mean to dis Skystar and their choice of tube coatings but it is my
opinion that there are some better alternatives.
BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along time
ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
I hope I don't create a fur ball !
Best Regards
Bob Ducar >>
Reposted from the Kitfox List
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
From: "Bob Ducar" <aeropup(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Rust is starting to grow
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:47:18 -0500
Gentlemen,
I do not know if I am comming in late on this thread but in regards to
powder coating plaes note the following:
As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes arena
for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
coating.
Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
highlights:
1) the powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexable. If
the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
its orginal form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress cracked or
actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because it
is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must be
removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other ways
such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
for this type of inspection. $$$
2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic pin
holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
exfoillation and catrostrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from which
is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
could be alot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may just
float over ths corrosion and look normal.
Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will resist
this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily. They
are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact with
water.
I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing areas
of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A simple
dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
I do not mean to diz Skystar and there choice of tube coatings but it is my
opinion that there are some better alternatives.
BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along time
ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
I hope I don't create a fur ball !
Best Regards
Bob Ducar
ModIV-1200, 582
Getting to the home stretch!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | re- vacume pumps "wet" and "dry"? |
Listers,
First I'll say this, Keeping in mind that the clouds out here in Western
Canada often have rocks and trees hiding in them.
The plan, The 6A I've been building will only be used for VFR conditions and
after some reasonably large number of hours of flying practice and
experience it will be used for some cross country flying.
At present I have a "wet" vacuum pump and oil separator that came with my
0-360-A1A. I do not yet have the rest of the vacuum system such as hose kit,
regulator, fittings, and filter.
The time has come to make some decisions. I have spent some time now in the
archives looking for info pro and con re- "wet" verses "dry" vacuum systems
with some success.
So far I have built both RMI's flight and engine management system
instruments. I have also installed a Navaid servo. Their turn and bank power
head unit is about four months away from delivery. I have yet to obtain any
other control panel equipment.
I'm trying to decide whether to use the wet pump that I have on hand, use a
dry pump or go with an electric based system.
So far I'm leaning toward the electrics. However, the budget is stretching a
wee bit thin.
Question; Can anyone point to web sites, publications, or what have you that
will provide info that an instrument layman like me can digest?.
Thanks,
Jim in Kelowna, Will it fly before next spring? ..Maybe, if that light at
the end of the tunnel isn't a damn freight train well get there!.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Folks,
Just received a message back from Paul Rosales about his article in
Sport Aviation..............calling it an article is kind of an
understatement...........with 5 pages and all the pictures they may as well
have dedicated the April edition to Paul :
).
He asked me to post his reply to the list.........here it is:
Hey Rick! Always GREAT to hear from you, and I'm glad you enjoyed our
trip report! It was NOT a problem writing it after returning from our
fantastic trip around the country that included our first trip to OSH! It
was just coincidence that our plane appeared in SPORT two months in a row,
honest! Our report was originally published in Muroc's (Edwards AFB) EAA
Chapter 1000 newsletter last year, and Bob Mackey (VP, Chapter Relations) is
a member of Chapter 1000...Bob liked it and forwarded it to Editor Scott
Spangler (himself an RV-8 builder!) who then asked if he could publish it in
SPORT...WOW again! YES, all that stuff/camping gear came straight out of the
plane upon arrival home from OSH, and I just HAD to take a picture of it!
You TOO will experience the joy of building AND flying your plane to OSH,
soon!!!!! So keep poundin' them rivets - it's all worth it! Paul & Victoria
.
Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
I concur with your assessment fully. I have a 1986 Honda in my drive to
back it up. You see Honda powder coated the rear axle parts. Due to cracks,
maybe the pin holes or just poor application, the radius arms attach points
rusted off. The coating contained the moisture and other corroding elements
and the steel came off in large flakes, rusting inside the coating. Never
had that happen in the same type of setup on any other car. But they
weren't powder coated.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Vanremog(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:28 PM
Subject: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
>
> In a message dated 4/4/01 6:48:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aeropup(at)ionet.net
> writes:
>
> << As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes
arena
> for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
> coating.
> Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
> comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
> highlights:
> 1) The powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexible If
> the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
> its original form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress
cracked or
> actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
> looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
> penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because
it
> is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must
be
> removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other
ways
> such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
> for this type of inspection. $$$
> 2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic
pin
> holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
> conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
> exfoliation and catastrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
> get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from
which
> is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
> could be a lot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may
just
> float over the corrosion and look normal.
>
> Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will
resist
> this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
> chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
> Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily.
They
> are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact
with
> water.
>
> I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing
areas
> of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A
simple
> dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
>
> I do not mean to dis Skystar and their choice of tube coatings but it is
my
> opinion that there are some better alternatives.
>
> BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along
time
> ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
> were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
>
> I hope I don't create a fur ball !
>
> Best Regards
>
> Bob Ducar >>
>
>
> Reposted from the Kitfox List
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
> From: "Bob Ducar" <aeropup(at)ionet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Rust is starting to grow
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:47:18 -0500
>
> Gentlemen,
> I do not know if I am comming in late on this thread but in regards to
> powder coating plaes note the following:
> As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes arena
> for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
> coating.
> Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
> comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
> highlights:
> 1) the powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexable. If
> the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
> its orginal form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress cracked
or
> actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
> looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
> penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because
it
> is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must be
> removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other ways
> such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
> for this type of inspection. $$$
> 2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic
pin
> holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
> conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
> exfoillation and catrostrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
> get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from which
> is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
> could be alot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may just
> float over ths corrosion and look normal.
>
> Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will resist
> this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
> chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
> Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily.
They
> are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact
with
> water.
>
> I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing
areas
> of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A
simple
> dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
>
> I do not mean to diz Skystar and there choice of tube coatings but it is
my
> opinion that there are some better alternatives.
>
> BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along
time
> ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
> were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
>
> I hope I don't create a fur ball !
>
> Best Regards
>
> Bob Ducar
> ModIV-1200, 582
> Getting to the home stretch!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
if you come down a couple of days early i have a suggestion, 20 minutes away
in Tampa, McDill air force base will be hosting Airfest 2001 sat and sun,
free to all, always a great airshow.
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "corinth" <corinth(at)iprimus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: auto engines |
Hi Barry,
I'm building an RV-6A which will be powered by the Powersport Aviation
rotary conversion.
Currently working on canopy.Expect engine sometime in late May.Will be Sun
&Fun next
Thurs. and Fri.
Gary Van Leeuwen
Aylmer, Ont.
RV-6A 24927
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: auto engines
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: auto engines
>
>
> >
> > Speaking of auto engines....I intend to use a 4.3 Chevy V6. If those
> > that are thinking about using, or have already done so (an auto engine)
> > let me know, I will keep a file (names and email addresses) on it.
> > Barry Pote RV9a Wings
> >
> > > Donning my flame-resistant gear...
>
>
> Hi Barry,
> I'm flying my rotary powered RV-6A to Sun & Fun tomorrow. Send me an
e
> mail next week and I will put you in touch with some people using the V6.
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW
> Matthews, NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
> The other day we were just putting my friends Rv-6 up for the night when
> Mr. Big Shot Mooney driver pulled up across the hangar. "Say, thats one of
> those little kit planes isn't it?" Before we can answer he's well into his
> well worn speech about what a bad bird his two hundred thousand dollar
> Mooney is. "It even trues out at a solid 170 knots, and thats the most
bang
> for the buck you can get in general aviation. Say, whats yours do? About
> 125?" Keith looks at him and says in his most understated voice "Oh, 175
> but I've still got some drag to clean up on the gear legs". Should have
> seen Mr. Big deflate.
Yep. I just met the owner of a Comanche 250 that moved in a couple of
hangars down. He spent about 40 minutes telling me how fast his Comanche
is. All kinds of speed and engine hop up mods. In the delivery flight from
California he saw ground speeds of as high as 180 knots.
All the time my 6 is sitting there (I had been washing it). He did not seem
to have any knowledge or interest in what it is. I said nothing about it.
I am looking forward to the experience of flying together, when he will
understand more about that toy airplane. I'm sorry, I'm just not that
mature yet, so I still enjoy deflating the blowhards sometimes.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
Bryan,
I've never been to S&F but two of my friends are leaving this morning to head that
way. They are driving this year and they plan to be there Saturday. They
tell me there will be much to see.
Look for them & say "Hi". They will have a unique item with them. Randy took
an old corroded Ercoupe, chopped it up and Mark helped him mount it on an old
golf cart frame......really a neat unique item! You can't miss it....it's bright
yellow! The coupe-cart was even the subject of the cartoon on the inside
back cover of Kitplanes magazine 3 or 4 issues back; December I think.
Enjoy Sun & Fun !
Rodney
6A emp.....still
Dallas
>>> bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com 04/04/01 04:21PM >>>
I know that it's recommended to attend the early days of the Sun-n-Fun
fly-in. But how about arriving a day early? The official start day is
Sunday, April 8th. Would arriving Saturday be a good idea?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/05/2001 08:45:53 AM
I could not agree more with this post. This stuff is REALLY brittle. While
making slight bends on my canopy frame the powder coat would literally
fracture and pop off. The pieces that came off would fly about a foot
before landing. I am certian that epoxy primer and PPG Concept (or Imron)
would not have done this at all. Last night while installing my gear legs
into the motor mount the PC just split and fractured like crazy. Both of
these will require a repaint, but whats the use of painting over brittle
material. So, guess what I'm forced to do. The clincher is that the canopy
frame has the pin holes mentioned and you can see red through the larger
pinholes. So I'll get the disk sander and the 60 grit after it, but try and
remove PC from between the creases of the welds. Don't get me wrong, I
totally give Vans credit for providing this service, it is beautifull work.
It just might not be right for this application. Anyone know of a solvent
that works on PC? Aircraft Stripper?
I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion.
Eric Henson
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM@matronics.com on 04/05/2001 12:28:52 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
In a message dated 4/4/01 6:48:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aeropup(at)ionet.net
writes:
<< As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes
arena
for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
coating.
Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
highlights:
1) The powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexible If
the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
its original form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress cracked
or
actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because
it
is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must be
removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other ways
such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
for this type of inspection. $$$
2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic
pin
holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
exfoliation and catastrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from which
is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
could be a lot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may
just
float over the corrosion and look normal.
Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will resist
this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily.
They
are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact
with
water.
I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing
areas
of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A
simple
dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
I do not mean to dis Skystar and their choice of tube coatings but it is my
opinion that there are some better alternatives.
BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along
time
ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
I hope I don't create a fur ball !
Best Regards
Bob Ducar >>
Reposted from the Kitfox List
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
From: "Bob Ducar" <aeropup(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Rust is starting to grow
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:47:18 -0500
Gentlemen,
I do not know if I am comming in late on this thread but in regards to
powder coating plaes note the following:
As being involved in the advanced aerospace materials and processes arena
for the past 23 years I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
coating.
Approximately 3-4 years ago this subject came up and I had input some
comments regarding powder coating on our kitfox details. Here are some
highlights:
1) the powder coating that is used on our parts is somewhat flexable. If
the detail is over stressed the coating will stretch and contract back to
its orginal form. The metal underneath the coating may be stress cracked
or
actually broken. You cannot see this under the powder coating because it
looks perfectly normal after the stress load! If you try to do a dye
penetrant inspection on the powder coat it will not show anything because
it
is an elastomeric barrier and there is no penetration. The coating must be
removed in order to do this type of inspection. There are some other ways
such as mag particle inspection but usually you have to send the part out
for this type of inspection. $$$
2) Depending on how the coating is applied you may still get microscopic
pin
holes in the coating in which water will migrate through depending on
conditions. The steel underneath the coating will corrode and cause
exfoillation and catrostrophic corrosion if left undetected, you may even
get some rust forming back through the hole in which it started from which
is a good indicator to really start to look deep. But in many cases it
could be alot worse than it appears on the surface. The coating may just
float over ths corrosion and look normal.
Typical aerospace chromated primers along with epoxy top coats will resist
this type of corrosion better than elastomeric powder coats. These
chromated and epoxy coatings are more brittle than powder coating used on
Kitfox details and will indicate cracking and corrosion, more easily. They
are also designed to create additional corrosion barriers after contact
with
water.
I have opted for the chromated primer and epoxy top coat on all tubing
areas
of my Fox, especially where I anticipate heavy fatigue and stress. A
simple
dye inspection will show cracking very easily.
I do not mean to diz Skystar and there choice of tube coatings but it is my
opinion that there are some better alternatives.
BTW, It was told to me that Sikorsky Helicopters did a study back along
time
ago on these types of elastomeric powder coatings and determined that they
were unsuitable for high corrosion environments because of the above.
I hope I don't create a fur ball !
Best Regards
Bob Ducar
ModIV-1200, 582
Getting to the home stretch!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
I will be in Sarasota Florida over the long Easter weekend!. Any RV builders
in the area who would like to swap lies while the wife & kids shop & do the
beach thing??
Tommy
Ridgetop, TN
6A fuselage (almost finished)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
The venders don't open till Sunday morning.
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> >I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion.
Before I ordered my Fuse kit (Dec, 2000), I spoke with Tom Greene at Vans,
requesting whether the kit could be ordered without the powder coat. He said
all current parts are shipped this way, no option to come without the PC.
Claimed the change was due to "customer pressure" for the coating. My kit
arrived with PC on the rudder pedal assy., gear legs and mounts (-6A) stick
assy., everything but the -602's and -603 engine mount brackets. (why not these
too?) They all look great hanging on the wall, but now I'm a little concerned
by this recent thread.
Hope to hear more discussion on this before ordering the engine mount- perhaps
the PC may be an option by then...
> >I hope I don't create a fur ball !
I hope this gets resolved before I get these parts installed!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -firewall done, on to bulkheads!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
In a message dated 4/5/01 8:00:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cgalley(at)qcbc.org
writes:
<< The coating contained the moisture and other corroding elements
and the steel came off in large flakes, rusting inside the coating. Never
had that happen in the same type of setup on any other car. But they
weren't powder coated. >>
It should be noted that this is a potential problem with elastomeric type
coatings.......both powder and liquid applied. There are many types of powder
coating just like different types of liquid coatings.
Too many years in the specialty coatings business to count.......
Dale Ensing
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/05/2001 11:37:47 AM
I asked if I could get my engine mount without the PC. Barbara said I could
but they would have to order one and it would be six weeks. I imagine you
could request no PC upon your initial order. I really believe they are
going to get some pressure this way. Some people are funny about primer and
things like that, if you can believe it.
Eric
ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)(at)matronics.com on 04/05/2001 11:17:43 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> >I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion.
Before I ordered my Fuse kit (Dec, 2000), I spoke with Tom Greene at Vans,
requesting whether the kit could be ordered without the powder coat. He
said
all current parts are shipped this way, no option to come without the PC.
Claimed the change was due to "customer pressure" for the coating. My kit
arrived with PC on the rudder pedal assy., gear legs and mounts (-6A) stick
assy., everything but the -602's and -603 engine mount brackets. (why not
these
too?) They all look great hanging on the wall, but now I'm a little
concerned
by this recent thread.
Hope to hear more discussion on this before ordering the engine mount-
perhaps
the PC may be an option by then...
> >I hope I don't create a fur ball !
I hope this gets resolved before I get these parts installed!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -firewall done, on to bulkheads!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings |
When I was at Vans yeaterday, they had a whole stack (or more) of engine
mounts sitting there waiting to be powder coated. Kinda strange they said it
would have to be special ordered.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
I asked if I could get my engine mount without the PC. Barbara said I could
but they would have to order one and it would be six weeks. I imagine you
could request no PC upon your initial order. I really believe they are
going to get some pressure this way. Some people are funny about primer and
things like that, if you can believe it.
Eric
ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)(at)matronics.com on 04/05/2001 11:17:43 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> >I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion.
Before I ordered my Fuse kit (Dec, 2000), I spoke with Tom Greene at Vans,
requesting whether the kit could be ordered without the powder coat. He
said
all current parts are shipped this way, no option to come without the PC.
Claimed the change was due to "customer pressure" for the coating. My kit
arrived with PC on the rudder pedal assy., gear legs and mounts (-6A) stick
assy., everything but the -602's and -603 engine mount brackets. (why not
these
too?) They all look great hanging on the wall, but now I'm a little
concerned
by this recent thread.
Hope to hear more discussion on this before ordering the engine mount-
perhaps
the PC may be an option by then...
> >I hope I don't create a fur ball !
I hope this gets resolved before I get these parts installed!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -firewall done, on to bulkheads!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: new guy |
| From: | Scott and Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org> |
on 4/4/01 5:29 AM, Steve Sampson at steve(at)lbho.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>
> Scott - your message interests me because I fly a Supercub out of a 1000'
> grass strip and am shortly planning to order an RV9 kit. I would order a -7
> except for the 1000'. Now I know nothing about building but do know a little
> about operating off a short dirt strip.
>
> The thing that I have learned is that lots of people will talk about what
> they can do with their aircraft but getting them to do it is another thing.
> An example was a guy with an Aviat Husky - a short field plane like the
> S'cub. He could land in 300'....my strip would be 'no problem'. He arrived
> overhead, circled round a bit and radioed he would go to the nearest
> licensed airfield. In the later discussion his issues were 1) A low fence on
> approach - true, 2) 40' trees at the end - true, 3) the wind was not
> directly down but cross - true. (In other words a typical short strip! On
> the particular day the grass was dry.) Now in my S'cub I go in and out
> several times most weeks, usually land 75' beyond the fence and use another
> 300' to dissipate the energy - I approach around 45mph. It works but its
> very easy to get wrong and use a lot more.
>
> Saturday I had my first ride in an RV6. The owner / builder made no claims
> to be a great pilot - he had about 400hrs on this aircraft - new I was
> interested in its ability to land short but landed as he was comfortable. Of
> the 2000' available he used at a guess 1100'. It was an in to wind runway.
>
> My point is that there is a lot of talk but if all you have is 1000' you
> have to do it right on the good days and the bad. When you are feeling A1
> and when you are less than perfect. Doing it wrong once is once too many
> times. If you need 1050' you will have a bent aeroplane. If you use 975'
> you will have a severely stressed heart!
>
> Now I expect there will be a wall of protest to this mail. I know Van's own
> strip is short. I am sure many will say they neeed nothing like 1000', and I
> am sure its true. I wonder how many regularly use a 1000' with a brick wall
> at the end and perhaps have to accept a 5knot tailwind or 15/20 knots
> gusting across - on a hot day with wet grass? Some I am sure CAN do it
> safely.
>
> For my part, later this month i am going to fly an RV9 at the factory then
> (subject to my reaction) order. I will try to also fly a -7 but will take
> LOTS of convincing.
>
> Good luck! Steve.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott and Pam Trask" <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
> To: "RV6"
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:37 AM
> Subject: RV6-List: new guy
>
>
>> --> RV6-List message posted by: Scott and Pam Trask
>>
>> I'm looking at getting a RV6/7. What kind of runway does a guy need? 1000
>> feet enough? Is there anyone that lives close to me who would mind if I
> take
>> a look at your project?
>> Scott Trask
>> Iron Mountain MI
>> 49801
>> (906) 779 9157
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Hi Steve
Thanks for your response. Sounds like you have a lot of fun flying as well.
I've gotten a number of responses off-list as well. I've heard stories of
1000 feet being enough roam but I figured that would be with ideal
conditions with some hours under your belt. I do have the land to extend the
runway, but my father used to own the property and he still lives there (he
is 76). He had years ago planted trees and if I would cut them down it would
hurt his feelings. Some day I'll have a nice long strip. Then I'll have to
have a fly-in.
I fly a Kolb Twinstar MK111 1000 flight hrs. I built it and completed it
in 1989. I built my house attached to the hanger so I'm spoiled. Next plane
I don't want to have to drive to an airport to fly it. I wouldn't mind doing
that for awhile. I like the RVs so you can see that it's not an easy
decision for me.
Scott Trask
Iron Mountain MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n.france" <n.france(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see pictures
of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ?
It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
have managed it.
Could anyone who has done it , tell me if they used standard Van's supplied
3/8 pipe and fittings, or is there an alternative source which lends itself
to tight bends in short distances, which it looks like it may need.
Thanks in advance.
Neil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Hiers" <craig-rv4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I had a guy ask me why I wasted 5 years building a "MODEL"
airplane when I could just go out and buy one.
About 2 months later I was at the departure end of 36 ready to
go when I noticed he was behind me, I pulled over to side and
let him go by. He got his clearence to go, then I got mine.........
I passed that "CHICKENHAWK" like he was standing still.
Funny, that guy never talk to me any more.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH 151hours
Tallahassee,FL.
> Yep. I just met the owner of a Comanche 250 that moved in a couple of
> hangars down. He spent about 40 minutes telling me how fast his Comanche
> is. All kinds of speed and engine hop up mods. In the delivery flight
from
> California he saw ground speeds of as high as 180 knots.
>
> All the time my 6 is sitting there (I had been washing it). He did not
seem
> to have any knowledge or interest in what it is. I said nothing about it.
> I am looking forward to the experience of flying together, when he will
> understand more about that toy airplane. I'm sorry, I'm just not that
> mature yet, so I still enjoy deflating the blowhards sometimes.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/05/2001 01:28:48 PM
Oh, I have a Dynofocal type 2, it was the only one in the place. They would
have to have one welded up. So maybe there would not be a wait for bare
metal parts. I'll tell ya, Florida is hell on bare steel, I sure wouldn't
leave them around bare. Not in this neighborhood.
Eric
"Greg Tanner" (at)matronics.com on 04/05/2001 11:55:07
AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
When I was at Vans yeaterday, they had a whole stack (or more) of engine
mounts sitting there waiting to be powder coated. Kinda strange they said
it
would have to be special ordered.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
I asked if I could get my engine mount without the PC. Barbara said I could
but they would have to order one and it would be six weeks. I imagine you
could request no PC upon your initial order. I really believe they are
going to get some pressure this way. Some people are funny about primer and
things like that, if you can believe it.
Eric
ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)(at)matronics.com on 04/05/2001 11:17:43 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com wrote:
>
> >I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion.
Before I ordered my Fuse kit (Dec, 2000), I spoke with Tom Greene at Vans,
requesting whether the kit could be ordered without the powder coat. He
said
all current parts are shipped this way, no option to come without the PC.
Claimed the change was due to "customer pressure" for the coating. My kit
arrived with PC on the rudder pedal assy., gear legs and mounts (-6A) stick
assy., everything but the -602's and -603 engine mount brackets. (why not
these
too?) They all look great hanging on the wall, but now I'm a little
concerned
by this recent thread.
Hope to hear more discussion on this before ordering the engine mount-
perhaps
the PC may be an option by then...
> >I hope I don't create a fur ball !
I hope this gets resolved before I get these parts installed!
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark -firewall done, on to bulkheads!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
In a message dated 4/5/01 5:50:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
<< I will order my next kit with bare metal. Just my opinion. >>
Guess I'll add to this fur ball by mentioning that I had to sand and file 90%
of the powder coat off of my -6 canopy frame (slider) because of multiple
areas of flaking and exfoliation of the PC. It took the better part of a
week and I found a lot of rust under the PC, fortunately just getting
started. I am thankful that I ordered my engine mount without the powder
coat and the other weldments were received pre-powder coating era. I will
never trust powder coating on a structural part, just my opinion.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
In a message dated 4/5/01 9:56:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
n.france(at)ntlworld.com writes:
<< Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see
pictures
of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ? >>
Check the August 1996 issue of RVator, page 10 for a picture of Eustace
Bowhay's installation.
Hey Eustace, would you (or are you doing) do anything different on the next
one?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS POWER COAT THREAD AND HAVE A LITTLE
EXPERIENCE WITH IT ON mOTORCYCLES.
1st, it is almost impossible to get off of places where you did not want
it. We had to drill out bolt holes (rat tail file was not working) that
the powder coater forgot to mask. So I am surprised that people are
having a problem with it falling off and /or cracking. But then again,
the things on the motorcycles that we did, DO NOT FLEX, maybe that is
the difference. My powder coater does a thorough sand blast job and
everything before applying. So sand blasting seems to be the way to get
it off.
Barry POte RV9a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Duckwork Landing Lights |
Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks landing
light kit sold by Vans?
thanks,
Cliff
RV9 wings
Erie, CO
www.barefootpilot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Check the archives, there was lots of discussion. The answer is...it all
depends on the components you use and their orientation. I am building a 6A
and am using the Andair gasolator and Facet pump supplied by Vans. I wanted
to keep the fuel pump oriented at a 45 degree angle as suggested. With
these parts and specifications, I was unable to fit them in this area. The
fuel pump stuck up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch above the top of the wing. The
problem was finding a short 45 degree fitting between the female pipe
threads of the gasolator and the male AN flare fitting of the fuel pump. I
ended up putting the gasolator in the wing root and the fuel pump inside the
cabin. One possible solution would be to order an alternative fitting from
Andair. You can replace the female NPT with a male AN. Then you could use
a short 45 degree fitting between them and all would fit.
Ross
> It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
> have managed it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Here are a couple of locations where you can find a wing root installation.
http://www.bmnellis.com/BuilderIdeas/DonHughes.htm
Rob Acker's web site http://home.rmci.net/racker/Systems.htm
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)N
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
Prepping Top Main Wing Skins for riveting
http://bmnellis.com
>
> Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see
pictures
> of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ?
> It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
> have managed it.
> Could anyone who has done it , tell me if they used standard Van's
supplied
> 3/8 pipe and fittings, or is there an alternative source which lends
itself
> to tight bends in short distances, which it looks like it may need.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Neil.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings |
Thread-Topic: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
Thread-Index: AcC+AsSqNDXl4QtaRKe2ITeBV4DRrwAABh8w
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Has anyone out there had their engine mount chrome plated?
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
See you guys at SNF!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/05/2001 03:19:12 PM
Any opinions on whether bead blasting will take PC off? Seems like it aught
to. While I'm on the subject. Whats the difference (if there is one)
between bead blasting and media blasting. Inquiring redneck minds want to
know.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
Why would you take off with a tailwind? Or is that a misprint?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re- vacume pumps "wet" and "dry"? |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: re- vacume pumps "wet" and "dry"?
Thread-Index: AcC9wGWt6OPw1wlBTw2ZEtXdS3lsegASKcfw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Hi Jim,
I used the wet vacuum pump that came with my engine and tried everything
I could think of to get it to stop slobbering on the belly (separators,
experimenting with the separator output location, hooking up another
separator to the breather) all to no avail. I still got quite a bit of
oil on the belly. I finally had enough with the fiddling and bought a
new dry pump, and now there's no oil on the belly.
I do plan on going fully electric on my next plane with a redundant
electrical system, dual batteries, dual alternators per Electric Bob's
book. I think its money well spent since the vacuum pump WILL
eventually fail, and with my luck it would be on an approach in the
soup.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings, Chrome plating engine mount |
I wouldn't do that, myself. A buddy of mine had some rear wheel bolts fail
on his Harley. We traced the problem back to embrittlement of the bolt from
the chrome application. We verified this with destructive testing of some
other chrome plated unbroken bolts. Our best theory was that it was related
to hydrogen embrittlement.
Bottom line - it changes the mechanical properties of the base material
somewhat and might cause structural damage.
just my 2 cents
Bryan Jones -8 765BJ
Pearland, Texas
>Has anyone out there had their engine mount chrome plated?
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
>See you guys at SNF!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Arrival Day |
Not entirely true. I was over there today (Thursday) and some of the
outdoor vendors were already open. True, the vendors in the big hangars
don't open till Sunday.
Finn
Rvmils(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> The venders don't open till Sunday morning.
> Carey Mills
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New England DAR Recommendations? |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
17, 2001) at 04/05/2001 04:45:11 PM
Hello All,
As I near completion of my -4, I'd like to identify a DAR in the New
England and preferably Massachusetts area. I have the FAA list of DARs,
but would really like to find one experienced with RV's. After several
calls to the FAA, I was connected with a local (FAA) Airworthiness
Inspector who told me he had never heard of an RV. I quickly explained
that Van's RVs were probably the most common kitplane in the country, if
not the world. "Nope, doesn't ring a bell", was his response. After that
conversation, I felt it might be better to find a DAR with RV experience.
Any recommendations would be most appreciated.
Dean Pichon
Arlington, MA
Less than 1000 items left on the punch list!
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
Media blasting can be walnut shells, soda, many other kinds of media
depending on material being removed and substrate tolerance. Bead blasting
(glass beads) are tiny balls of glass available in various "grits" (size of
balls/beads)and mostly of silicon content.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bead Blasting
Any opinions on whether bead blasting will take PC off? Seems like it aught
to. While I'm on the subject. Whats the difference (if there is one)
between bead blasting and media blasting. Inquiring redneck minds want to
know.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens, Laird" <Owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Neil,
Try:
http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/RV-6_Builders_album/
It worked for me.
N515L, 190 hrs
O-360, Sensenich (83)
Simi Valley, SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Apr 5, 2001 10:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wing root mounted gascolator question
Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see pictures
of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ?
It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
have managed it.
Could anyone who has done it , tell me if they used standard Van's supplied
3/8 pipe and fittings, or is there an alternative source which lends itself
to tight bends in short distances, which it looks like it may need.
Thanks in advance.
Neil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
After seeing the pictures posted by Mike, I was reminded of two other
requirements I had. The first was to have the fuel pump be located after
the gasolator so that I would not need to turn the fuel pump on to drain the
gasolator. The second was to have the gasolator at the low point of the
entire system. These precluded me from using the set ups shown.
Ross
>
> Check the archives, there was lots of discussion. The answer is...it all
> depends on the components you use and their orientation. I am building a
6A
> and am using the Andair gasolator and Facet pump supplied by Vans. I
wanted
> to keep the fuel pump oriented at a 45 degree angle as suggested. With
> these parts and specifications, I was unable to fit them in this area.
The
> fuel pump stuck up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch above the top of the wing. The
> problem was finding a short 45 degree fitting between the female pipe
> threads of the gasolator and the male AN flare fitting of the fuel pump.
I
> ended up putting the gasolator in the wing root and the fuel pump inside
the
> cabin. One possible solution would be to order an alternative fitting
from
> Andair. You can replace the female NPT with a male AN. Then you could
use
> a short 45 degree fitting between them and all would fit.
>
> Ross
>
>
> > It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how
others
> > have managed it.>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bead Blasting |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
17, 2001) at 04/05/2001 04:59:06 PM
Eric,
I just finished bead blasting my (bare) gear legs with glass beads. The
size I used was 100-170 mesh size. I decided this was not nearly
aggressive enough. If I were to do it again, I would use larger beads,
perhaps a mix of beads and ground glass or silica sand. I don't believe
glass beads will remove powder coat in any reasonable amount of time. I
would use some silica sand or ground glass or a mixture of one of these
with the beads.
Blasting media is simply the generic term for any of the materials used in
blasting. (e.g., glass beads, sand, walnut shells, corn cobs, etc.) Take
a look in the McMaster-Carr catalog. They have a good selection of
blasting media with suggested applications.
Dean Pichon
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 04/05/01 03:18 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RV-List: Bead Blasting
|
Any opinions on whether bead blasting will take PC off? Seems like it aught
to. While I'm on the subject. Whats the difference (if there is one)
between bead blasting and media blasting. Inquiring redneck minds want to
know.
Eric
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckwork Landing Lights |
Mine were 55 watts.
Bill
-4 wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Duckwork Landing Lights
>
> Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks
landing
> light kit sold by Vans?
> thanks,
> Cliff
> RV9 wings
> Erie, CO
> www.barefootpilot.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Neil,
I mounted the Andair gascolator in the right wing root of my -6. I used 3/8"
tubing that connected to straight fittings on the gascolator. It's mounted
about half way between the spar & the fuel tank bracket. This gives the
tubing on both front & back for a short staright run into the gascolator. No
problems with this installation other than the tricky bending to get one
piece of tubing from the fuel valve to the gascolator.
Rick Caldwell
-6 210 hrs
Melbourne, FL
>From: "n.france" <n.france(at)ntlworld.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Wing root mounted gascolator question
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:38:33 +0100
>
>
>Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see
>pictures
>of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ?
>It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
>have managed it.
>Could anyone who has done it , tell me if they used standard Van's supplied
>3/8 pipe and fittings, or is there an alternative source which lends itself
>to tight bends in short distances, which it looks like it may need.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Neil.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim jewell" <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings |
Hi Bob,
In my past I found that chrome on tube framework hid cracks very much like
some people are saying that powder coating does. The cracks that we found
where most often found 'after' critical failures. The answer for us was to
cadmium plate the race car frame and suspension parts. The plater put enough
on to withstand all but very aggressive scraping and we never looked back.
The cad plating allowed cracks to be found early, held off corrosion quite
well, looked good, and cost lots less money.
I will be doing some update research on this very soon for my engine mount
after my initial fitting is complete.
I any of you out there in RV- list world Have info Pro or Con please advise.
Jim in Kelowna
PS.
Could it be that the powder coating contractor has let Van's down in the
area of quality control ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Japundza <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: Re RV-List: Rust and Powder Coatings
>
> Has anyone out there had their engine mount chrome plated?
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
> See you guys at SNF!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
To blast of PC, it requires an aggressive media as the heat buildup with
something less aggressive just softens the PC and will just eventually burn
it off instead of blasting it. Even a 30 grit silica sand in a sand blast
unit has trouble.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bead Blasting
Eric,
I just finished bead blasting my (bare) gear legs with glass beads. The
size I used was 100-170 mesh size. I decided this was not nearly
aggressive enough. If I were to do it again, I would use larger beads,
perhaps a mix of beads and ground glass or silica sand. I don't believe
glass beads will remove powder coat in any reasonable amount of time. I
would use some silica sand or ground glass or a mixture of one of these
with the beads.
Blasting media is simply the generic term for any of the materials used in
blasting. (e.g., glass beads, sand, walnut shells, corn cobs, etc.) Take
a look in the McMaster-Carr catalog. They have a good selection of
blasting media with suggested applications.
Dean Pichon
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 04/05/01 03:18 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RV-List: Bead Blasting
|
Any opinions on whether bead blasting will take PC off? Seems like it aught
to. While I'm on the subject. Whats the difference (if there is one)
between bead blasting and media blasting. Inquiring redneck minds want to
know.
Eric
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Duckwork Landing Lights |
Cliff,
They come with a 55 watt halogen bulb but the instructions say that the unit
will also handle a 100 watt bulb. I replaced mine with the 100 watt bulbs.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
Canopy
http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks landing
light kit sold by Vans?
thanks,
Cliff
RV9 wings
Erie, CO
www.barefootpilot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New England DAR Recommendations? |
| From: | Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)juno.com> |
Ray Nadeau, Suffield,CT. Phone (860)668-7108
He inspected my RV-6 this past February. He's a real nice guy tp work
with.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 N401TC
pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com writes:
>
>Hello All,
>
>As I near completion of my -4, I'd like to identify a DAR in the New
>England and preferably Massachusetts area. I have the FAA list of
>DARs,
>but would really like to find one experienced with RV's. After
>several
>calls to the FAA, I was connected with a local (FAA) Airworthiness
>Inspector who told me he had never heard of an RV. I quickly
>explained
>that Van's RVs were probably the most common kitplane in the country,
>if
>not the world. "Nope, doesn't ring a bell", was his response. After
>that
>conversation, I felt it might be better to find a DAR with RV
>experience.
>Any recommendations would be most appreciated.
>
>Dean Pichon
>Arlington, MA
>Less than 1000 items left on the punch list!
>**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
>Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
>confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
>only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
>the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as
>possible.****
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckwork Landing Lights |
> Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks
landing
> light kit sold by Vans?
Mine, now over three years ago, came with 55 watt bulbs. I've since upgraded
at the local auto parts store to 100 watt bulbs.
From the "If I were doing it again" file (my favorite), I would scratch
build them, they're simple. All you have to do is look at a completed
aircraft. I'd use a couple of those funky new little driving lights in each
wing.
BTW, I painted the entire cavity white. Lots to gain by reflection. The
difference will probably not be noticed in flight but I'll bet they will be
better when taxing. More flood focus for free.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckwork Landing Lights |
>
>Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks landing
>light kit sold by Vans?
Cliff,
Don sells his leading edge lights with 55 watt bulbs and many builders
replace them with 100 watt bulbs. The 100 watt bulbs are $5.50 each at
NAPA. The part number is GE H3 for 100 watts and GE H2 for 55 Watts. I saw
them at another NAPA with part number GE4595 and you had to look inside the
blister pack to select a GE H2 or GE H3.
Besides having more light at night for landing and taxiing, the brighter
lights are also important in the day time.
During the day time you use the leading edge lights to increase your
visibility and noticablity by alternately flashing them or wig
wagging. The apparent jump of the light from one wing tip to the other
wing tip.creates an illusion of something moving. We are all trained to be
very alert for motion. One hundred watt bulbs do this for a greater distance.
The WigWag Solid State Controller, WSSC, is a very effective way to add
this safety item. The WSSC reduces the time it takes to install leading
edge lights. The large wires that carry the +8 amps required by the 100
watts lights are shorter and easier to install because they run directly
from the WSSC behind the panel to the bulb in the wing tip.
Three 22 gage wires connect one or more switches on the panel or the stick
to the WSSC. These switches command the WSSC to turn on one light, the
other light, both lights or to wigwag. These switches do not switch the +8
amps that power each light. Switching on the power to the leading edge
lights is done inside the WSSC using 2 solid state transistors. Two wires
from two +8 amp fuses or circuit breakers are used to create a redundant
power supply for the
WSSC. If one fuse or circuit breaker opens the other one will still power
the WSSC and the other light. It would be unfortunate to have a wire short
in one wing and open the one and only fuse or circuit breaker taking out
both lights. You would land in the dark with one good bulb.
The added safety of wigwaging can be accomplished without increasing the
load on the alternator. By wigwaging with the WSSC the leading edge lights
are on only half the time so the two 100 watt bulbs have a load of only 50
watts.
For more information see http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ or email me and
request to reply with a small 124KB attached Acrobat file containing three
documents; a two page Data Sheet, a three page installation Guide, and six
one page application notes.
Bob Haan
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Installing the wind screen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <wirraway2(at)bravo.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Rust and Powder Coatings, Chrome plating engine mount |
<<
> >Bob Japundza
> >RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying>>>
Hi Bob,
I don't know anyone who has had their engine mount
chrome plated, but I do know of a builder who had
his engine mount Cadmium plated.
A lot of research went into the decision to cad
plate the engine mount. The job was done by an
approved aviation plating shop, and Chris could
give you the technical pros and cons.
The builders name is Chris Marsh (retired British
Airways captain), and has a very nice RV4 0-360
CS.
Chris is not on the rv-list, but I'm sure could
answer your questions. His e-mail address is
grasstrip(at)netlink.net
Cheers and take care,
Ken Glover RV6A Hunter Valley Australia
March 31, 2001 - April 06, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-km