RV-Archive.digest.vol-qi
December 31, 2004 - January 11, 2005
steal cooling air from the cylinders. Does anybody make a naca inlet
that's big enough for a 3" scat?
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
VanArtsdalen
| Subject: | RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
All this oil cooler talk has got me wanting to move my oil cooler off
the firewall to a spot where it will get better cooling. I've seen
several installations over the years that I've liked but I've forgotten
where all these pictures were. If anyone has an pictures of their RV-4
oil cooler installations I'd sure like to take a look. Especially if
you've mounted it on the baffle or engine mount behind good ol' #4.
Maybe even in the cheek cowling.
Thanks!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting electric primer valve |
I mounted mine on the battery box. Take a 1x1.25 piece of angle and set the
primer on top and attach it with screws and rivet the other side of the
angle to the battery box with flush rivets on inside. Nice and sturdy and
not much change in elevation from the gascolator to the first primer line T.
I scratched my head on this for a few days too. Best wishes.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Mounting electric primer valve
>
>
> Hey great wise builders.... I'm stumped.
> How do you mount the electric fuel primer valve that Van's sells?
> I've searched the usual places for ideas with no luck.
>
> FWIW - there are 2 threaded holes in one end, and a big nut on the other
> (no, not me).
> I can always use an Adel clamp on the valve body, but that is no good in
my
> book - too wobbly for a fuel line.
>
> Let me know what has worked for you.
>
> Thanks & Happy New Year!
>
> Kelly Patterson
> PHX, AZ
> RV6A Finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
I used a combination of metal and garlock material. The installation that I
copied used all garlock material. I thought I could save a few oz of weight
using the metal. It was more work and I am not sure it was worth it.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:06:00 -0800
Gary,
Is your "small duct / plenum (3" x 4") " made of flexible material? If so,
what did you use. If not, what absorbs the movement between the oil cooler
and the rear baffle? I think I want to mount my oil cooler that way since
the carbon fiber plenum from Jon Johanson I am using makes it a little
harder to brace the rear baffle behind #4.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
Larry:
I had my oil cooler on the firewall with 3" scat when I did my test flying
back in 1997. The oil ran near redline all the time. Had 3 cases of vapor
lock then moved the oil cooler to the engine mount behind the # 4 cylinder.
Looks just like all the other baffle mount cooler but it is a solid mount on
the engine mount. The hose flex have been no problem yet after over 1,550
hours.
If you check the archives, you may find some info on others that have had
high oil temps with the firewall mount oil cooler. With the cooler mounted
to the engine mount, I have a small duct / plenum (3" X 4") extending to
behind # 4 cylinder. I have the same size opening in the baffle. I
typically run 10 - 15 degrees F cooler than the other RVs I fly with that
have the cooler mounted to the baffle. May have something to do with
getting minimal heat transfer from the cylinder head to the cooler.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
"'owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com '"(at)matronics.com
D, and others,
I would add one more comment to Dan's comment about recharging a battery
with an alternator. It isn't that great for the battery either. Lead acid's
prefer slow charging, and alternator's don't really know how to do this if
the battery has been fully discharged.
So, if you leave the master on over night then stay on the ground and
recharge the battery with a charger, unless of course you absolutely must go
flying... even then it is good to slow charge (ie 5 amps max) the battery
for half an hour rather then nail it with max alternator output from the get
go.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | 200HP cowl louver mod & strake discussion II |
In the 24 years of the RVator, there's a cowl mod on page 322 that looks interesting.
Climb temps were really bad so increased cowl outlet area by adding louvers
to the bottom of the scoop.
Anyone else done this? Seems so simple and logical. Anyone who's played around
with enough different RC model planes engine/prop/muffler combinations has probably
been in this territory a time or three.
Too bad we can't experiment with props as ea$y as we can on RC planes...
Also, there's a 4 or 5 page writeup (with pictures and drawings) by Van himself
on the RV8 tail shakes and the strake solution. They did say they were effective
in cancelling out the prolonged prestall buffet the 8 has. But they didn't
bother to measure any drag or speed penalty due to the strakes. They also
didn't discuss slower stall speeds/better landings. They had tunnel vision on
the tail shakes (must have had a LOT of alarmed phase 1 test flight RV8 flyers
calling in concerned...)
In the 24 years of the RVator, there's a cowl mod on page 322 that looks interesting.
Climb temps were really bad so increased cowl outlet area by adding louvers
to the bottom of the scoop.
Anyone else done this? Seems so simple and logical. Anyone who's played around
with enough different RC model planesengine/prop/muffler combinations has probably
been in this territory a time or three.
Too bad we can't experiment with props as ea$y aswe can on RC planes...
Also, there's a 4 or 5 page writeup (with pictures and drawings) by Van himself
on the RV8 tail shakes and the strake solution. They did say they were effective
in cancelling out the prolonged prestall buffet the 8 has. But they didn't
bother to measure any drag or speed penalty due to the strakes. They also didn't
discuss slower stall speeds/better landings. They had tunnel vision on the
tail shakes (must have had a LOT of alarmed phase 1 test flight RV8 flyers calling
in concerned...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: 200HP cowl louver mod & strake discussion II |
> Also, there's a 4 or 5 page writeup (with pictures and drawings) by Van himself
on the
> RV8 tail shakes and the strake solution. They did say they were effective in
cancelling
> out the prolonged prestall buffet the 8 has. But they didn't bother to measure
any drag
> or speed penalty due to the strakes. They also didn't discuss slower stall speeds/better
> landings. They had tunnel vision on the tail shakes (must have had a LOT of
alarmed
> phase 1 test flight RV8 flyers calling in concerned...)
>
Hi,
I saw these on Stuart McCurdy's RV8 at SNF, but didn't have much of
a chance to talk to him about them. I was under the impression that
that this prestall buffet was not a big deal. I have not yet read
the Van's article. Is this something a lot of people are complaining
about?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com> |
Wow looks really sharp!! I'm very very impressed. The only thing I would
like to see is a general section under each group. So all RV'ers can post
general questions that relate to all RV planes.
Kevin
Yellowknife, NT, Canada
RV-8 Wanna Be Builder
From: "Sean Caranna" <VP2Flyer(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: New RV forums
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:33:53 -0500
I've started a new aircraft homebuilding forum at http://www.WingsForum.com
"They" say that a picture is worth a thousand words. The ability to attach
spreadsheets, documents, and CAD files can speak volumes.
I am not asking anyone to leave this list. I'm just offering an additional
resource that will offer easily accessible photo and data file content
intergraded with the message threads. http://www.wingsforum.com also has
form based email and private messaging that will nonpublic communications
while protecting your email address from SPAM email harvesters.
http://www.WingsForum.com was created because the email based groups just
can't compete with the forum format for organization of topics, searching
information already covered by a group, and relevancy of information
presented. I can't tell you how many HOURS of my life have been wasted
scrolling through off topic threads and information irrelevant to my search
on Yahoo and MSN groups. Lets face it, if you are looking for info on your
spar why should you need to scroll through 30 email post on firewalls 5
about rudders and 2 about nothing at all?
At http://www.WingsForum.com you will find topics well organized, pictures
and relevant files directly attached to their post, private messaging, and
more all on one site. Forum membership is, and will always be, FREE. Try
in out, it cost nothing, and you just might like it. If you don't like it
just let me know how I can improve the site.
Email Digest are available for those who prefer them. You can customize
them for what forums you want to watch, if you want a short excerpt or full
messages of up to 36,000 characters, and what time of day they will be
delivered to you. Users just click the Digest link at the top of the page
once logged in to enable them.
Thanks for your consideration,
Sean C. Caranna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 200HP cowl louver mod & strake discussion II |
lucky wrote:
>
>In the 24 years of the RVator, there's a cowl mod on page 322 that looks interesting.
Climb temps were really bad so increased cowl outlet area by adding louvers
to the bottom of the scoop.
>
>Anyone else done this? Seems so simple and logical. Anyone who's played around
with enough different RC model planes engine/prop/muffler combinations has
probably been in this territory a time or three.
>
>Too bad we can't experiment with props as ea$y as we can on RC planes...
>
snipped
RE: louvers,
Take a look at
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/localflow2.pdf
& then look at the cowl in photos of the Reno racer Lancair Legacy.
I have nothing to offer on the '-8 shake' issue.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne(at)engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Etching |
Mark,
Aircraft Engravers has been doing exactly what you requested and have been
do it successfully for over 12 years. The aircraft that have used this
process look like they came from the factory as can be attested to the
numerous awards that their owners have won. As to the durability, it can't
be beat, I personally inspected our very first panel done this way a few
months ago and it looked just as good now as when it was made.
If someone says that it doesn't hold up they; 1) Don't know what they are
talking about. OR 2) The paint used was of poor quality. OR 3) It was not
painted correctly. OR 4) The engraver didn't know how to do it. Just think
for a moment, if you use a good quality two part paint to paint a car, how
long does it last in an outside environment. Now how long do you think that
same paint would last inside your cockpit? See
http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/painted_panels.htm for more info.
We do a lot of other types of engraving for aircraft, also see
http://www.engravers.net/main/ac_products.htm
Wayne Cahoon
Aircraft Engravers
(860) 653-2780
(860) 653-7324 Fax
http://www.engravers.net
PS Thanks Bruce for the recommendation
>
> Listers,
>
> I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your
> panel,
> paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat
> away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling.
>
> I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but
> if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me
> know.
>
> Thanks a bunch.
>
> Mark.
> http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
I saw an RV6 have this arrangement built by Mike Wonder of Bloomington
Indiana. He does not post on this list however. I am not sure where he
actually had the oil cooler mounted but the NACA inlet on one side of the
cowling was his source of cooling air. I am sure it adds some small amount
of drag.
One added concern with the NACA is the air tube disconnecting while in
flight, since it will be disconnected and reconnected with each cowling
removal. Also, we know the air flow is from high pressure inside the
baffling to the low pressure side outside the baffling -- so unless we
fabricate some sort of new air exhaust path matched up for the added NACA
air coming in, we will be making the normal low pressure air side of the
system less functional which will increase CHT temps. Loss of tube or
reengineering the air pressure concern is not a problem with a baffle
mounted cooler location.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures
>
> Has anybody tried a firewall mount oil cooler with a naca inlet and duct
> off the side of the cowling? I'm wondering if that might be a way to not
> steal cooling air from the cylinders. Does anybody make a naca inlet
> that's big enough for a 3" scat?
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> VanArtsdalen
> To: Rv-List; RV-4(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures
>
>
> All this oil cooler talk has got me wanting to move my oil cooler off
> the firewall to a spot where it will get better cooling. I've seen
> several installations over the years that I've liked but I've forgotten
> where all these pictures were. If anyone has an pictures of their RV-4
> oil cooler installations I'd sure like to take a look. Especially if
> you've mounted it on the baffle or engine mount behind good ol' #4.
> Maybe even in the cheek cowling.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> Van Arts Consulting Services
> 3848 McHenry Ave
> Suite #155-184
> Modesto, CA 95356
> 209-986-4647
> Ps 34:4,6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
>>
>> Has anybody tried a firewall mount oil cooler with a naca inlet and
>> duct
>> off the side of the cowling? I'm wondering if that might be a way to
>> not
>> steal cooling air from the cylinders. Does anybody make a naca inlet
>> that's big enough for a 3" scat?
>>
>>
>
>
There is a beautiful turbocharged RV8 with the oil cooler set up this
way. I forget the guy's name off the top of my head, but i get few
pictures of it at OSH.
see:
http://homepage.mac.com/flyeyes/PhotoAlbum17.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | mounting vertical card compass |
| From: | "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com> |
I am planning my panel and the instructions on the vertical card compass says not
to mount in the panel as vibration will take its toll.=A0 Has anybody monted
it in the panel with modification to reduce the vibrations? Thanks for the input
Wayne S.Alberta RV7a 'panel"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mounting electric primer valve |
In a message dated 12/31/04 3:48:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, kbob(at)cox.net
writes:
<< How do you mount the electric fuel primer valve that Van's sells? >>
I mounted mine on the firewall using a bracket made from a scrap of 0.125 X
1.5" aluminum angle. The primer valve hangs down using the two screw holes in
the end of the valve. BTW, I noticed after about 15 hours that the big nut on
the bottom of the valve was backing off due, I assume, to vibration. I tried
Locktight on it but it's too soon at 20 hours to know if that will work or not.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying, 20+ hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
I remember talking to this gent at lenght. He said he had fair to good
results but the ramp and shape of the duct turned out to be more
critical than expected.
James Freeman wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Has anybody tried a firewall mount oil cooler with a naca inlet and
>>>duct
>>>off the side of the cowling? I'm wondering if that might be a way to
>>>not
>>>steal cooling air from the cylinders. Does anybody make a naca inlet
>>>that's big enough for a 3" scat?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>There is a beautiful turbocharged RV8 with the oil cooler set up this
>way. I forget the guy's name off the top of my head, but i get few
>pictures of it at OSH.
>
>see:
>
>http://homepage.mac.com/flyeyes/PhotoAlbum17.html
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Just want to say thanks to you all for a great year of building fuel tanks. You
guys have provided me with enough work to survive yet another year covered in
proseal:) I have been doing this now for almost 7 years and 200+ sets of tanks
and I am still enjoying every minute. For those of you who have resolved to
get your airframes built this coming year, please consider letting me help you
get there. I can generally crank out a set of new tanks in about two weeks, and
my workmanship is first rate. I have been considering expanding into other
aspects of builder assistance. If any of you guys would like me to help build
your empennage or complete wings please let me know. In the past several builders
have asked me to build their entire airframe and I have always turned them
down. Now that I have some good help I can consider these larger, longer term
projects.
Cheers.....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
RV-10 Almost ready for the fuselage kit!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | New RV website, plenum pics moved |
After flying for almost a year, I finally got around to putting up a web
site. I moved the pictures of my aluminum plenum, which I had posted
elsewhere, to this site as well. It is not a complete how-to site like
some have done, just a few mods I have made and photos which I often get
requests for. Hopefully someone will find something useful in there.
http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/index.htm
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mounting vertical card compass |
Wayne,
I mounted my compass to the panel through a piece of 1/8" reinforced
silicone baffle seal.
I posted a couple of photos on my web site.
http://users.aol.com/n67bt (scroll down to "Older Stuff")
The 1/8" seal is rather stiff so I think I would try some thinner material
the next time.
Bob Trumpfheller
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
After struggling with trying to get the OAT function up and running, I
finally decided to wire everything up, leave it alone, and worry with it
another day. Then I got to going through all of the menu functions and low
and behold, I found out why the unit did not see the probe. It was turned
off in the D10A. After selecting YES when the unit asked if the probe was
installed it started working. Also I found that you can select degrees
Fahrenheit or degrees Celsius for the temperature display. I used the
following key strokes to get the OAT working. From the main menu, MORE -
SETUP - MORE - MORE - OAT - and then YES when it asked if OAT installed.
None of this was mentioned in the installation guide for the OAT probe. Also
degree F was not mentioned (that I found), I just stumbled across it.
Jerry Isler
RV4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA
Subject: RV-List: Dynon OAT
>
> After Fed Ex-ing a Dynon OAT probe from ACS on the west coast, to Georgia,
I
> cannot get the system to recognize that it is installed. I have the
external
> compass connected and working properly and I have checked, re-checked, and
> checked again the wiring for the probe. Its only three wires into a 9 pin
> connector so it's not that hard. Has anyone had trouble getting a Dynon
D10A
> to recognize the OAT probe? What are the values of the probe in ohms?
Should
> I see the values change if I heat up the probe? The three wires from the
> probe are as follows. Blue (ground), red, and yellow. I do not know what
> the red and yellow wires actually are because they connect to the compass
> module with not explanation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FAB mounting plate cracks. Replacement? |
Listers,
I'm in the middle of my fifth annual on my RV8 and have found two cracks in
the alu FAB box plate. It's cracking at the rear, through the outer edge of
a carb mounting hole and the other is alongside the left front mounting
hole. No signs of FAB box impact or chafing on the cowling is evident.
Good ole Lycosaur shake must have taken it's toll.
What do ya'll think about using a sheet of phenolic instead? Would be an
easy piece to make with a rotozip and dremel sanding wheel. Spruce sells it
in 1/8" sheets that I think would be just about the right thickness. I
could also layup a sheet of carbon with West Systems and machine it. It
would look cool but the phenolic is ready to use and mighty tough. Any
downsides to this?
Thanks,
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
I just switched to a Hartzel CS prop on my 6A with an O-320. I have heard
several people say they get a backfire when reducing power quickly with this
prop and I have found the same thing. Anyone else experience this? Any
explanation?
Thanks,
John Furey RV6A O-320 New hartzel replaced Sensenich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] New RV website, plenum pics moved |
Hi Jeff,
Here's some more questions:
1) Is it 'water proof'?
2) In the second picture, what's the shiny aluminum that looks attached to the
hinge?
3) I want a cool camlock on my oil door. What is the part number of the one you
are using on the wing tip locker?
4) got a picture of the wing tip door forward of the hinge while the door is only
halfway up? curious if you have any underlap under the wing tip.
>
>
> After flying for almost a year, I finally got around to putting up a web
> site. I moved the pictures of my aluminum plenum, which I had posted
> elsewhere, to this site as well. It is not a complete how-to site like
> some have done, just a few mods I have made and photos which I often get
> requests for. Hopefully someone will find something useful in there.
>
> http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/index.htm
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
I have a really cool (pun intended) set up with the oil cooler mounted
on a bracket that is mounted to the engine mount behind cylinder #3. I
will send photos when I quit flying long enough to pull the cowl and
take some. The hoses have never flexed enough to cause problems in over
800 hours. The bracket is solidly mounted with the bolts going through
STEEL tubing where they pass through the cooler. The mount itself is
made of 4130 steel tubing.
My set up is a two inch scat taken off the rear baffle and into a duct
system welded out of aluminum with a simple gate at the back of the
cooler, also mounted to a welded duct with a 3 inch hole going out the
back. The cooler door, of course, is controlled from the cockpit. I have
to block the intake partially below 70 degrees average OAT and almost
completely below 50 degrees average. I also have a piece of cylinder
ducting to get cool air into the oil cooler intake that is taken off as
the OAT cools. It keeps the air into the cooler cooler (!) and the air
to the cylinder away from the air going into the cooler which better
cools the cylinder. Or something like that.
I have NEVER gotten to redline oil temperature, or even close, even in
long climbs to altitude in summer heat. I open the gate at oil
temperatures above about 180, keeping it closed for takeoff. YMMV; the
-4s don't usually have heating problems anyway. Keeping things warm is
occasionally the problem. Ask me about average cylinder head
temperatures: they are WAAAAY below redline.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop/Backfire |
Have never had that problem with my set-up, but I have fuel injections which
could make it different.
Jim
Jim Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
150+ Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RV-List: Prop/Backfire
>
> I just switched to a Hartzel CS prop on my 6A with an O-320. I have heard
> several people say they get a backfire when reducing power quickly with
this
> prop and I have found the same thing. Anyone else experience this? Any
> explanation?
>
> Thanks,
> John Furey RV6A O-320 New hartzel replaced Sensenich
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollins(at)visi.com> |
| Subject: | Tru Trak hardware |
I'm curious if anyone has a hardware callout for mounting the Tru Trak servo
to the brackets. In perusing the archives it seems the best way to handle
this is reaming out the holes and using a bolt and nut. So I'm also looking
for any site or info that explains the art of safety wiring.
Thanks
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Are you referring to the D10 or the D10A? I haven't found a way to change
my D10 to Fahrenheit. I wish I could.
Are you listening Dynon?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Isler [mailto:jlisler(at)alltel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 5:09 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon OAT
>
>
> After struggling with trying to get the OAT function up and
> running, I finally decided to wire everything up, leave it
> alone, and worry with it another day. Then I got to going
> through all of the menu functions and low and behold, I found
> out why the unit did not see the probe. It was turned off in
> the D10A. After selecting YES when the unit asked if the
> probe was installed it started working. Also I found that
> you can select degrees Fahrenheit or degrees Celsius for the
> temperature display. I used the following key strokes to get
> the OAT working. From the main menu, MORE - SETUP - MORE -
> MORE - OAT - and then YES when it asked if OAT installed.
> None of this was mentioned in the installation guide for the
> OAT probe. Also degree F was not mentioned (that I found), I
> just stumbled across it.
>
> Jerry Isler
> RV4 N455J
> Donalsonville, GA
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Dynon OAT
>
>
> >
> > After Fed Ex-ing a Dynon OAT probe from ACS on the west coast, to
> > Georgia,
> I
> > cannot get the system to recognize that it is installed. I have the
> external
> > compass connected and working properly and I have checked,
> re-checked,
> > and checked again the wiring for the probe. Its only three
> wires into
> > a 9 pin connector so it's not that hard. Has anyone had trouble
> > getting a Dynon
> D10A
> > to recognize the OAT probe? What are the values of the
> probe in ohms?
> Should
> > I see the values change if I heat up the probe? The three
> wires from
> > the probe are as follows. Blue (ground), red, and yellow. I do not
> > know what the red and yellow wires actually are because
> they connect
> > to the compass module with not explanation.
>
>
> ========
> Matronics Forums.
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting electric primer valve |
I mounted mine to the firewall using an aluminum manifold block from ACS.
This block has two bolt holes for mounting and an inlet port and two outlet
ports. I mounted the primer solenoid and an Electronics International fuel
pressure transmitter on the outlets. A hose connects the block to the outlet
of the fuel pump. Any unused ports can be plugged. See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/alummanifoldfit.php for
further details.
Jerry Isler
RV4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA.
Subject: RV-List: Mounting electric primer valve
RV-List message posted by: "Kelly Patterson"
How do you mount the electric fuel primer valve that Van's sells?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
Pictures would be great. But I understand about it being hard to quit
flying! I need to do my contition inspection and I've been moping about
that for weeks. But in January, it's time. That's why I'm going to
take this opportunity to move the cooler off the firewall. My oil temps
HAVE gotten to redline and it wasn't a good feeling.
Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>I have a really cool (pun intended) set up with the oil cooler mounted
>on a bracket that is mounted to the engine mount behind cylinder #3. I
>will send photos when I quit flying long enough to pull the cowl and
>take some. The hoses have never flexed enough to cause problems in over
>800 hours. The bracket is solidly mounted with the bolts going through
>STEEL tubing where they pass through the cooler. The mount itself is
>made of 4130 steel tubing.
>
>My set up is a two inch scat taken off the rear baffle and into a duct
>system welded out of aluminum with a simple gate at the back of the
>cooler, also mounted to a welded duct with a 3 inch hole going out the
>back. The cooler door, of course, is controlled from the cockpit. I have
>to block the intake partially below 70 degrees average OAT and almost
>completely below 50 degrees average. I also have a piece of cylinder
>ducting to get cool air into the oil cooler intake that is taken off as
>the OAT cools. It keeps the air into the cooler cooler (!) and the air
>to the cylinder away from the air going into the cooler which better
>cools the cylinder. Or something like that.
>
>I have NEVER gotten to redline oil temperature, or even close, even in
>long climbs to altitude in summer heat. I open the gate at oil
>temperatures above about 180, keeping it closed for takeoff. YMMV; the
>-4s don't usually have heating problems anyway. Keeping things warm is
>occasionally the problem. Ask me about average cylinder head
>temperatures: they are WAAAAY below redline.
>
>Michael
>RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
A couple of links you might find interesting.
I had the identical cracking problem, first the baffle, than the oil cooler
Here are two examples, the first is from a F-1 and is similar what I did
on my RV-4 after I relocated the cooler off the rear baffle:
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/baffles.htm
OR
http://www.bidasst.bizland.com/engine.htm
The second example above shows a good diffuser. The builder reports his
IO-360 (200hp) RV-8 has low oil temps of 190F, so it works well. He used a
4" dia scat. Van's kit makes use of a 3" dia scat and a square small
aluminum box attach to the cooler. Van's cooler kit may work OK but may not
allow some coolers to operate at max capacity. That is why some RV's run
hot. With a good design, a remote cooler should run as cool or even more
cool than RV's with the oil cooler mounted directly to the baffle.
My solution was to mount it just off the baffle and support the cooler off
the engine mount and duct it like the F-1 example above. I no longer had
cooler or baffle cracks and dropped #4 CHT by 20F.
Fatigue: The cooler on a shaking engine is a fatigue machine. The flat
sheet metal of the baffle and oil cooler flanges are loaded in shear and
bending. Even by tying the oil cooler flanges together with bolts and
spacers, they still act as individual flat sheet metal flanges in bending.
Plus the slotted mounting holes do not help the flanges strength.
The spacers and washers do help to put the flanges reduce bending stress,
but not completely. A better example would be a two blocks (wood,
composite, aluminum w/ lighting holes) that fills the space between the
cooler flanges on both sides. The block fits snug and all bolts penetrate
the blocks. This would be more effective then a small aluminum spacer, even
with washers. The load would be spread out more and the flange would be
almost completely in shear.
Instead of washers that hang out in the air, suggest straps that nest the
full length of the cooler's flange (0.100-0.125 thick aluminum). These are
straps or "radius fillers" would spread the load out better than
washers. Even with cooler and baffle reinforcements what are the internal
welds of the cooler doing?
The rear baffle is poorly supported, and may eventually crack sooner or
later, even if the cooler does not. One end of the rear baffle is attached
to a shaking, expanding cylinder with one bolt (?), the other end is
attached with a bracket (and one bolt?), and the top and bottom of the rear
baffle are unsupported and subjected to air loads. Again it is flat sheet
metal in bending. Hang 5-7 lbs off the baffle and you may have similar
problems.
Dan no doubt did a great job, but even with everything balanced well a
Lycoming still vibrates (a lot). Some people have better luck with
baffle-mounted coolers because of the engine/prop/airframe/baffle/oil
cooler size/etc...... (ie, wood props, smaller size cooler, less vibration
and stress).
I tried the baffle-mounted cooler and did not care for it, and eventually
switched. So even if you go this way you can always change. People who
have cooling problems with remote mounted coolers may want to try one of
the methods shown above. I think a smooth wall tube/duct would be better
than scat.
Take care, Happy Holidays, G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | FAB mounting plate cracks. Replacement? |
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm in the middle of my fifth annual on my RV8 and have found
> two cracks in
> the alu FAB box plate. It's cracking at the rear, through
> the outer edge of
> a carb mounting hole and the other is alongside the left
> front mounting
> hole. No signs of FAB box impact or chafing on the cowling
> is evident.
> Good ole Lycosaur shake must have taken it's toll.
>
> What do ya'll think about using a sheet of phenolic instead?
> Would be an
> easy piece to make with a rotozip and dremel sanding wheel.
> Spruce sells it
> in 1/8" sheets that I think would be just about the right
> thickness. I
> could also layup a sheet of carbon with West Systems and
> machine it. It
> would look cool but the phenolic is ready to use and mighty
> tough. Any
> downsides to this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
Brian, this is very common. I suspect it is not vibration, but engine
movement during g's/turbulence and startup/shutdown. That snout is a long
way forward from the FAB's mount. I don't know phenolic's cracking
tolerance at very low temperatures, one would need to understand all of
that, since pieces sucked into the engine are a bad thing. Paul Petersen,
are you listening? (he knows a bit about phenolics). I have the Airflow
Performance setup, and the edges of the mount were very sharp, creating a
classic stress riser on the plate in question. Time will tell if it helped
to radius those edges.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 561 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FAB mounting plate cracks. Replacement? |
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I'm in the middle of my fifth annual on my RV8 and have found
> > two cracks in
> > the alu FAB box plate. It's cracking at the rear, through
> > the outer edge of
> > a carb mounting hole and the other is alongside the left
> > front mounting
> > hole. No signs of FAB box impact or chafing on the cowling
> > is evident.
> > Good ole Lycosaur shake must have taken it's toll.
> >
> > What do ya'll think about using a sheet of phenolic instead?
> > Would be an
> > easy piece to make with a rotozip and dremel sanding wheel.
> > Spruce sells it
> > in 1/8" sheets that I think would be just about the right
> > thickness. I
> > could also layup a sheet of carbon with West Systems and
> > machine it. It
> > would look cool but the phenolic is ready to use and mighty
> > tough. Any
> > downsides to this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD
> > RV10 '51
>
>Brian, this is very common. I suspect it is not vibration, but engine
>movement during g's/turbulence and startup/shutdown. That snout is a long
>way forward from the FAB's mount. I don't know phenolic's cracking
>tolerance at very low temperatures, one would need to understand all of
>that, since pieces sucked into the engine are a bad thing. Paul Petersen,
>are you listening? (he knows a bit about phenolics). I have the Airflow
>Performance setup, and the edges of the mount were very sharp, creating a
>classic stress riser on the plate in question. Time will tell if it helped
>to radius those edges.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A 561 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
Ah...good point. The cracks do seem coincidental with the edge of the carb
body. The bottom of the carb is machined and has a rather sharp transition
into the cast body of the carb bowl.
I've used phenolic as a carb mount on a 4.1 cu. in. Husqvarna chainsaw
engine to modify the mounting to suit an RC aircraft application. It worked
beautifully and held up to even the horrendous shaking of a single cylinder
engine of this size. Of course, it was also 3/4" thick! It was impervious
to 5% nitro glow fuel as well as gas/oil mix.
This just might work out.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak hardware |
The company recommended using loctite which I did initially. I dont think
its a good idea. I drilled out the tapped holes and put bolts and nuts in
during my annual. You dont have to used drilled bolts.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
150 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins(at)visi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Tru Trak hardware
>
> I'm curious if anyone has a hardware callout for mounting the Tru Trak
> servo
> to the brackets. In perusing the archives it seems the best way to handle
> this is reaming out the holes and using a bolt and nut. So I'm also
> looking
> for any site or info that explains the art of safety wiring.
>
> Thanks
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul, Minn.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Mickey,
That would be me. I did install strakes on my RV-8. I flew it first without them
and documented my airspeeds and that I did indeed have significant 'tail shake'
prior to the stall. It is caused by the dirty air in a near stall coming around
the fuselage/landing gear just under the leading edge, and with no energy the wing
does not streamline the air, so it hits the horzontal Stab and shakes it about
an
inch at the tip. I installed some Cessna 414 engine nacelle strakes (I bought
at
Robertson in Arlington WA) on the fuselage in front of and above the leading edge.
Next flight there was NO tail shake and NO prestall buffet. In documenting changes
after installation, I saw no top end penalty and a 5 knot reduction in stall speed.
Worked for me.
This mod is not for everyone in that the prestall buffet is gone. If one needs
that buffet to let them know he are close to stall, he should not install them.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, Flying
RV-3, Flying
------------------------------------------------
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: 200HP cowl louver mod & strake discussion II
> Also, there's a 4 or 5 page writeup (with pictures and drawings) by Van
himself on the > RV8 tail shakes and the strake solution. They did say they
were effective in cancelling out the prolonged prestall buffet the 8 has. But
they didn't bother
to measure any drag or speed penalty due to the strakes. They also didn't discuss
slower stall speeds/better landings. They had tunnel vision on the tail shakes
(must have had
a LOT of alarmed phase 1 test flight RV8 flyers calling in concerned...)
>
Hi,
I saw these on Stuart McCurdy's RV8 at SNF, but didn't have much of
a chance to talk to him about them. I was under the impression that
that this prestall buffet was not a big deal. I have not yet read
the Van's article. Is this something a lot of people are complaining
about?
Thanks,
Mickey
Mickey,
That would be me. I did install strakes on my RV-8. I flew it first without them
and documented my airspeeds and that I did indeed have significant 'tail shake'
prior to the stall. It is caused by the dirty air in a near stall coming around
the fuselage/landing gear just under the leading edge, and with no energy the wing
does not streamline the air, so it hits the horzontal Stab and shakes it about
an
inch at the tip. I installed some Cessna 414 engine nacelle strakes (I bought at
Robertson in Arlington WA) on the fuselage in front of and above the leading edge.
Next flight there was NO tail shake and NO prestall buffet. In documenting changes
after installation, I saw no top end penalty and a 5 knot reduction in stall speed.
Worked for me.
This mod is not for everyone in that the prestall buffet is gone. If one needs
that buffet to let them know he are close to stall, he should no
t install them.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, Flying
RV-3, Flying
------------------------------------------------
From: Mickey Coggins mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch
Subject: Re: RV-List: 200HP cowl louver mod strake discussion II
-- RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch
Also, there's a 4 or 5 page writeup (with pictures and drawings) by Van
himself on the RV8 tail shakes and the strake solution. They did say they
were effective in cancelling out the prolonged prestall buffet the 8 has. But they
didn't bother
to measure any drag or speed penalty due to the strakes. They also didn't discuss
slower stall speeds/better landings. They had tunnel vision on the tail shakes
(must have had
a LOT of alarmed phase 1 test flight RV8 flyers calling in concerned...)
Hi,
I saw these on Stuart McCurdy's RV8 at
SNF, but didn't have much of
a chance to talk to him about them. I was under the impression that
that this prestall buffet was not a big deal. I have not yet read
the Van's article. Is this something a lot of people are complaining
about?
Thanks,
Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net> |
,
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
One thing that no one has addressed that may be part of the problem is the
change in the space between the mounting holes on the cooler as a result of
temperature changes.
With an all-aluminum body, I wonder if the cooler is expanding more than the
structure that it's attached to.
For instance, the baffle sidewalls that fit around the valve covers are not
one piece, they interweave where they meet between the two cylinder heads, I
would think this is solely to accomodate the changing dimensions of the
engine as the heads heat up.
Scott in VancouveRV-6, 167 hours
back in the air early November after 5-month repair!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net>
;
Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
>
> Dan,
> Looks like you may have vibration problems. Have you had the prop/engine
> dynamically balance? If not that would be a good thing to do. Can't
> believe normal stress (unless the mounting is out of alignment somehow)
> did that.
> Don't blame it on Van's design. Four bolts should be enough, UNLESS it is
> under high vibration or mis-alignment stress.
> Wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Checkoway
> To: SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com ; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com ;
> rv-list(at)matronics.com ; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:17 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
>
>
> As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
> report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
> However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil
> cooler
> flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
> weak link in the chain. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
>
> I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
> cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has
> done,
> this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
> astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want
> to
> check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
>
> Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
> MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
> installation robust.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
>
> Hope this helps!
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Steube" <at6c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Tru Track auto pilots |
I would like to know who found the best prices on Tru-Track autopilots and
where. Also, who provided good service? Thanks.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Skytec Flyweight Starter question |
Just starting my condition inspection and noticed something on my Skytec
starter. It has a bit of grease seeping out of the main housing. Sorry
I don't know the technical terms for these things. It looks like it's
made about 3 or 4 big drips of grease into my lower cowling. Is this
something I can just tighten up or does it warrant further
investigation? I'm going to take some pictures next time I'm out there.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Near <bnjn(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Louis, Missouri in 1888. He began |
ALERT!
This e-mail, in its original form, contained one or more attached files that were infected with a virus, worm, or other type of security threat. This e-mail was sent from a Road Runner IP address. As part of our continuing initiative to stop the spread of malicious viruses, Road Runner scans all outbound e-mail attachments. If a virus, worm, or other security threat is found, Road Runner cleans or deletes the infected attachments as necessary, but continues to send the original message content to the recipient. Further information on this initiative can be found at http://help.rr.com/faqs/e_mgsp.html.
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is known to you, you contact them directly and advise them of their issue.
If you do not know the sender, we advise you to forward this message in its entirety
(including full headers) to the Road Runner Abuse Department, at abuse(at)rr.com.
He attended the Sorbonne in Paris for a year and then returned to Harvard. He
then began to study at Oxford. In 1914, he became a resident of England. In
1915, he married Vivian Haigh-Wood, but due to her mental instability and many
admissions to mental institutions, they divorced eight years later.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | A new way to screw up! |
I present the following for your entertainment, because I know no one else
would possibly screw up the same way.
A couple months ago I was looking for some info in AC 43.13 & a statement
caught my eye that said if aluminum gets heated above 212 degrees F, it
should be re-heat treated. I thought that 212 was pretty low and somehow
remembered that little bit of trivia.
Fast forward about 6 weeks. I was about to finish my emp. All I had to do
was fit the elevators and drill out the holes in the elevator horns. Fired
up the propane heater that a friend loaned me, got my HS down off the
shelf & put it on my work table. The HS was kind of dusty, so I grabbed my
shop brush, cleaned it off and as I hung up my brush I realized that the
end of the HS extended beyond the table and over the heater which was about
3' tall and only 4" below the HS. Raced around to shut that sucker off,
checked the HS & it was really hot! But no visible damage.
A 400 degree thermometer held 4" above the 35,000 BTU heater was still
moving up at a pretty good clip until it pegged the needle . A lot hotter
than that 212 degree limit suggested by the FAA.
Van's had never run into the problem and couldn't help me on it.
By lucky coincidence, I used to work at the Air Guard in non-destructive
testing until they kicked me out for the sin of turning 60 a year and a
half ago. At our shop, we had an eddy current test instrument that could
be used for sorting alloys, although we never used that particular
function--it was great for finding cracks in F-15's, however.
So I put a piece of scrap aluminum above the heater for an hour and even
hit a small area with a propane torch for a couple seconds (the primer
started to smoke) to make sure the instrument would find any damage if it
were present. Took both the test piece and the HS to my old shop & gave
the guys a chance to have a little "training session". The instrument
clearly showed damage in the scrap, decreasing with distance from the heat
source. And it showed no change in the HS skin. Whew! But that's not all.
Shortly after that I spent some time with my AI helping him with a little
riveting. The subject of annealing rivets came up, a light bulb came on in
my feeble brain and I immediately thought of my HS. I hadn't checked
rivets on the eddy current tester because the probe was too large for a rivet.
So I set up my pneumatic squeezer with low pressure so it would just start
to squeeze an AN3 rivet. Squeezed & measure 10 of them to get a good
sample. Then heated 10 rivets in my piece of scrap held over the heater
for 2 minutes. Squeezed them and measured them, although the results were
obvious: Unheated rivets squeezed to 0.187" on average and heated ones
squeezed to 0.125". which was about the same as the gap I had set the
squeezer for with no resistance. So with a couple turns of the adjustable
set holder, they might have squeezed even shorter. Definitely weakened by
the heat.
So I replaced all the rivets on the tip rib as well as all the ones on
bottom skin from the last 2 ribs out including those on the spars. About
66 rivets in all. Several of them on the bottom of the tip rib drilled out
really easily. Drill down, break off the head & they just popped right
out, no problem at all. The rest of the rivets, along the spars, the top
of the tip rib and the second rib from the end gave the usual degree of
difficulty.
It's winter. It's cold in some parts of the country. Keep those propane
heaters away from your work!
Richard Scott
RV-9A
Finally starting wings!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec Flyweight Starter question |
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
>Just starting my condition inspection and noticed something on my Skytec
>starter. It has a bit of grease seeping out of the main housing. Sorry
>I don't know the technical terms for these things. It looks like it's
>made about 3 or 4 big drips of grease into my lower cowling. Is this
>something I can just tighten up or does it warrant further
>investigation? I'm going to take some pictures next time I'm out there.
>
Send Les Staples an email ..... he'll get you all the info you need to
fix your problem, if there is one. He's at lstaples(at)itexas.net.
Good luck,
Linn
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Mitchell <dfm4290(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Track auto pilots |
Try SteinAir
http://www.steinair.com/home.htm
Dale Mitchell
--- George Steube wrote:
>
>
> I would like to know who found the best prices on
> Tru-Track autopilots and
> where. Also, who provided good service? Thanks.
> George
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: first new RV flight in 2005 |
In a message dated 01/02/2005 5:47:48 PM Central Standard Time,
sisson(at)consolidated.net writes:
There are two Mark Phillips who get on the list...
>>>
hhhhmmmmmmmm................. sounds like a party- maybe I could drag the axe
out of the basement and toss it in the back of the RV...
Columbia TN Mark Phillips -6A, 144 hours & maybe not nekkid much longer? do
not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Scott,
According to the SACRAMENTO SKYRANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL, the Lycoming
engines distort almost 1/4" while running. 3/16" of this takes place in the
crankcases. The other 1/16" is due to expansion of each cylinder head as it
is stressed by the compression stroke of the engine. I think that it is for
this reason that the vertical baffles are not one solid piece.
Charlie Kuss
>
>One thing that no one has addressed that may be part of the problem is the
>change in the space between the mounting holes on the cooler as a result of
>temperature changes.
>With an all-aluminum body, I wonder if the cooler is expanding more than the
>structure that it's attached to.
>For instance, the baffle sidewalls that fit around the valve covers are not
>one piece, they interweave where they meet between the two cylinder heads, I
>would think this is solely to accomodate the changing dimensions of the
>engine as the heads heat up.
>Scott in VancouveRV-6, 167 hours
>back in the air early November after 5-month repair!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net>
>To: ; ;
>;
>Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
>
>
> >
> > Dan,
> > Looks like you may have vibration problems. Have you had the prop/engine
> > dynamically balance? If not that would be a good thing to do. Can't
> > believe normal stress (unless the mounting is out of alignment somehow)
> > did that.
> > Don't blame it on Van's design. Four bolts should be enough, UNLESS it is
> > under high vibration or mis-alignment stress.
> > Wayne
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dan Checkoway
> > To: SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com ; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com ;
> > rv-list(at)matronics.com ; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:17 PM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
> >
> >
> > As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
> > report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
> > However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil
> > cooler
> > flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
> > weak link in the chain. Photos here:
> >
> > http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
> >
> > I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
> > cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has
> > done,
> > this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
> > astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want
> > to
> > check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
> >
> > Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
> > MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
> > installation robust.
> >
> > http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
In a message dated 1/2/2005 2:29:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jayeandscott(at)telus.net writes:
For instance, the baffle sidewalls that fit around the valve covers are not
one piece, they interweave where they meet between the two cylinder heads, I
would think this is solely to accommodate the changing dimensions of the
engine as the heads heat up.
============================
Actually, the need for baffles configured in this way has less to do with
thermal expansion and much more to do with accommodating the rather large
mechanical excursions that occur out at the ends of the individual aircraft engine
cylinders resulting from the forces of turning the combustion event into
rotary motion.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 736hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Strakes |
Hi Stu,
Thanks for the info. I think I'll do it like you did and fly first to
see how it feels, and then add them later. Five knots is too much to
just leave on the table!
Best regards, and happy new year,
Mickey
> That would be me. I did install strakes on my RV-8. I flew it first without
them
> and documented my airspeeds and that I did indeed have significant 'tail shake'
> prior to the stall. It is caused by the dirty air in a near stall coming around
> the fuselage/landing gear just under the leading edge, and with no energy the
wing
> does not streamline the air, so it hits the horzontal Stab and shakes it about
an
> inch at the tip. I installed some Cessna 414 engine nacelle strakes (I bought
at
> Robertson in Arlington WA) on the fuselage in front of and above the leading
edge.
> Next flight there was NO tail shake and NO prestall buffet. In documenting changes
> after installation, I saw no top end penalty and a 5 knot reduction in stall
speed.
> Worked for me.
>
> This mod is not for everyone in that the prestall buffet is gone. If one needs
> that buffet to let them know he are close to stall, he should not install them.
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net> |
Is there an easy way to differentiate "structural" and "non-structural" pop rivets?
Thanks,
Dave
David Fenstermacher
dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Douglas <adouglas(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Bending firewall...how much? When? |
I'm helping out on a 7A, and we're assembling the firewall right now.
Question 1: How much to bend the firewall
Several drawings clearly show the upper part of the firewall being bent
forward, but we can't find any reference to actually doing this in the
instructions or on the drawings: Neither the amount of the bend nor when and
how to do it.
It *looks* like the bent portion should be at right angles to the F-718
upper longeron, but we're not sure of this...it just looks that way on the
drawings.
On Dwg. 18, the bend in the forward portion of this longeron is called out
at 5.6 degrees from horizontal...which suggests that the bend in the
firewall should also be 5.6 degrees from flat.
Assuming that the bend is at right angles to the longeron in the first
place.
Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?
I suppose we could just wait until the forward fuselage is all clecoed
together, then fit the upper front skin and see how much we need to bend it
to match the holes in the skin, but....
Question 2: How and when does one actually do it?
I'm thinking we need to fabricate a bending brake to make that bend cleanly.
Given that the bend is right where the upper stiffener (F-601L) lies, won't
this stiffener get in the way? This suggests that we should bend the
firewall before assembling it.
Can anyone give guidance on how you did it?
Thanks....
Andrew Douglas
(FNG)
PS: I found one reference in the archives to this, in which somebody wrote
that he just "deflected the firewall to match the ribs," but it seems to me
that this would place unnecessary stress on the firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Piavis" <piavis(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Rv-7 Removable Floors |
Does anyone have decent photos of removable baggage floors? I'm at that
point where it would be nice to drill for plate nuts on the baggage ribs but
I'm having some problems finding a couple pictures to follow, especially
around the F680 flap bearing block and the backrest brace.
Thanks,
Jim
-7 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | FAB mounting plate cracks. Replacement? |
Don't forget a support strap between the front of the air box and the engine. Van's
instruction do not show this. The brace attaches at the forward FAB plate
to box bolt, up to an engine sump bolt. The theory is that it will keep the airbox
from flexing and possibly cracking.
I would not recommend any other material. Both materials you suggest are stiff.
You could just move the problem somewhere else. I would not recommend other materials
without testing.
Take extra care to de-burr all holes edges well and make sure the seal between
the air box and cowl is not too stiff or tight. Consider making a replacement
plate with a higher gage aluminum.
Cheers G, RV-4, RV-7 (wings)
BRIAN WROTE:
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm in the middle of my fifth annual on my RV8 and have found
> two cracks in the alu FAB box plate..........
> What do ya'll think about using a sheet of phenolic instead?
> I could also layup a sheet of carbon with West Systems and
> machine it.
> Any downsides to this?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Brad Heinitz, strake builder |
Hi Michael,
Here is the phone number I have for Brad. I do not know if it is still
current...
360 403 8737
Dave
RV-6, near Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 12/06/04 |
It seems to me that if it works for race drivers at 200 + MPH, it can't hurt
for us.
Saw a father and son die in a fire (T-18 stalled a wing turning final) at
OSHKOSH several years ago. Might have saved them, might not. They were alive
until the fire started.
Wally Hunt
Rockford, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-7 Removable Floors |
I've got photos of them in my 6A.....at home...zap me direct if you want 'em and
I'll dig 'em up when I get home.........
-----Original Message-----
From: Piavis <piavis(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: Rv-7 Removable Floors
Does anyone have decent photos of removable baggage floors? I'm at that
point where it would be nice to drill for plate nuts on the baggage ribs but
I'm having some problems finding a couple pictures to follow, especially
around the F680 flap bearing block and the backrest brace.
Thanks,
Jim
-7 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: "POP" rivets |
>
>
>Is there an easy way to differentiate "structural" and "non-structural"
>pop rivets?
On Van's web page, there is a "Construction FAQs" page. On that
page, there is a link to a "Materials" pdf. This lists a lot of very
important stuff that is not in the standard manual, including a picture
identification of all the different types of "pop" rivets.
Here is the link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/materials.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending firewall...how much? When? |
> Question 1: How much to bend the firewall
If I recall, it was like 6 degrees. The plans do show it, I believe. If
not, you can take a compass to the drawing for a ballpark figure.
> Question 2: How and when does one actually do it?
I cut some wood to the width of the firewall, clamped it on both sides of
the firewall, and bent the top of the firewall forward. Decent clean bend
that way. I did it while the firewall was still a separate entity. Easier
that way, I think. I'm sure there are 9 ways to Sunday to do it more easily
than that, but you asked for opinions.
In my opinion, don't worry if you end up with 5.4 degrees or 6.8 degrees.
Like everything else, with these pre-punched kits, when you cleco it
together it's gonna be perfect.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending firewall...how much? When? |
Hi Andrew,
The stainless steel firewall is un-tempered and quite flexible. You can use
clamps and some hardwood or a piece of metal to fashion an in-place break of
sorts to bend it forward with a clearly defined angle.
Or you can clamp a piece of material with welders Vise-Grips at the point
where it should be bent and lean it forward uniformly with hand pressure
until it stands on it's own at the approximate appropriate angle. The actual
final angle will be determined by the forward flanges of the upper forward
cockpit structural framework flanges and the leading edge of the top skin .
The angle will end up being 'about' the 5.6 degrees that you mention.
I bent my upper firewall to fit after assembling the forward upper cockpit
structure in place incuding the panel as a separate riveted assembly. I kept
the assembly as a clekoed removable segment until it absolutely had to be
riveted in place. The skin will get riveted on as soon as I get a few
electrical systems refinements (after thoughts) done.
I chose the softer hand formed angle look for easier firewall cleaning.
That's my story and I'm stick'in to it! My inherent tendency toward laziness
had nothing at all to do with it! {[:-)
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Douglas" <adouglas(at)optonline.net>
Subject: RV-List: Bending firewall...how much? When?
>
> I'm helping out on a 7A, and we're assembling the firewall right now.
>
> Question 1: How much to bend the firewall
>
> Several drawings clearly show the upper part of the firewall being bent
> forward, but we can't find any reference to actually doing this in the
> instructions or on the drawings: Neither the amount of the bend nor when
> and
> how to do it.
>
> It *looks* like the bent portion should be at right angles to the F-718
> upper longeron, but we're not sure of this...it just looks that way on the
> drawings.
>
> On Dwg. 18, the bend in the forward portion of this longeron is called out
> at 5.6 degrees from horizontal...which suggests that the bend in the
> firewall should also be 5.6 degrees from flat.
>
> Assuming that the bend is at right angles to the longeron in the first
> place.
>
> Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?
>
> I suppose we could just wait until the forward fuselage is all clecoed
> together, then fit the upper front skin and see how much we need to bend
> it
> to match the holes in the skin, but....
>
> Question 2: How and when does one actually do it?
>
> I'm thinking we need to fabricate a bending brake to make that bend
> cleanly.
> Given that the bend is right where the upper stiffener (F-601L) lies,
> won't
> this stiffener get in the way? This suggests that we should bend the
> firewall before assembling it.
>
> Can anyone give guidance on how you did it?
>
> Thanks....
>
> Andrew Douglas
> (FNG)
>
> PS: I found one reference in the archives to this, in which somebody wrote
> that he just "deflected the firewall to match the ribs," but it seems to
> me
> that this would place unnecessary stress on the firewall.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle-sourced fresh air |
Listers,
Due to the difficulty of finding a good path to bring cockpit fresh air in
on an RV-3 I am considering taking a 2" scat tub off the upper back of the
baffle, running it through the upper firewall, then down to an aluminum vent
in my center console. I believe I have seen RVs with this set-up before but
can't remember who or where.
Has anyone used this method?
Noticed any warming of the air? (I wouldn't think so due to the velocity,
but it's a consideration).
Randy Lervold
RV3 #11375, fuselage
www.rv-3.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle-sourced fresh air |
Randy,
Are you using the wing mounted tanks or the fuselage tank. If you are using
the wing tanks I would mount a fresh air vent like the -8. I am not
thrilled about the idea of taking a fresh air vent from inside the engine
compartment. During flight where you talk about I think would be fine but
it is the in between flight time that I would be worried about. The
possibility that any engine fumes could get into the cabin area between
flights and linger there is a distinct possibility. If that is the only
place so be it but I think I would try to find a different spot.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: , ,
>
>Subject: RV-List: Baffle-sourced fresh air
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:09:31 -0800
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Due to the difficulty of finding a good path to bring cockpit fresh air in
>on an RV-3 I am considering taking a 2" scat tub off the upper back of the
>baffle, running it through the upper firewall, then down to an aluminum
>vent
>in my center console. I believe I have seen RVs with this set-up before but
>can't remember who or where.
>
>Has anyone used this method?
>
>Noticed any warming of the air? (I wouldn't think so due to the velocity,
>but it's a consideration).
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV3 #11375, fuselage
>www.rv-3.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle-sourced fresh air |
> Are you using the wing mounted tanks or the fuselage tank. If you are
using
> the wing tanks I would mount a fresh air vent like the -8. I am not
> thrilled about the idea of taking a fresh air vent from inside the engine
> compartment. During flight where you talk about I think would be fine but
> it is the in between flight time that I would be worried about. The
> possibility that any engine fumes could get into the cabin area between
> flights and linger there is a distinct possibility. If that is the only
> place so be it but I think I would try to find a different spot.
>
> Mike Robertson
Hi Mike,
Wing tanks. Being familiar with the RV-8 I considered both the left fuselage
side inlet as well as the right wing bottom inlet. Because the -3 is so
tight neither will work. The rudder pedals and cables get in the way of the
fuselage side, not to mention the pilot's legs & feet. Regarding the wing
inlet, there's no space under the seat to bring the tube from the right wing
bottom in through the side of the fuselage. Even if you could get into the
fuselage ala the -8 there would still be no way to get it forward of the
spar to a vent without penetrating the spar carrythrough with at least a 2"
hole, which I'm pretty sure Van's would say is a no-no.
Most RV builders would be surprised to see how small an RV-3 actually is.
I'm also struggling with wire routing for some of the same reasons. I think
I have a solution for the wiring though. You're right about the fumes
possibly getting in. On the other hand if one had a fuel leak you'd
certainly know faster! :-)
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Iridite powder available in Tennessee |
I'm planning to order some Iridite powder. The minimum quantity I can
buy is 10 pounds, so I will have some available to share. I figure the
cost will be about $30 per pound, delivered to Franklin. A pound makes
10 gallons of liquid, so this would be about $3 per gallon, as opposed to
$16 or $17 per gallon plus shipping from ACS (Hazardous product shipping
required - they say shipping may exceed the cost of the material, but
don't give the exact amount).
If there is enough interest in advance, I will order extra quantities.
ACS says a gallon will cover 100 sq. ft, so I figure about 5 pounds will
be enough to do the entire interior of the plane, and 7 pounds would do
the exterior as well.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term
slow-build)
Franklin, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Powder coating, spiral wrap and a pre-oiler |
Hi, Everyone,
I don't have an RV - but I do have a Cessna 180, and about ten years ago I
did a major FWF rebuild on Big Hammer. There are a few points relating to
that which may prove of interest to you.
1. I used some nylon spiral-wrap to protect a number of wires in the engine
bay. The spiral-wrap closest to the exhaust manifold melted around the
wires. It's safe, and still provides excellent protection, but can't be
removed and it's unsightly. It has not melted more - that is, the initial
meltdown seems to have been all that's happened. There is a high-temperature
version available from www.mcmaster.com, which should be adequate. Look on
page 702 on their on-line catalog for the PTFE version, in clear and black,
various sizes.
2. I took the opportunity to remove the main landing gear legs and have them
checked for cracks. Then I had them powder-coated, along with the baffles
and the engine mount and the spinner bulkhead. The powder coating was a
custom job, done very carefully and with all the appropriate process steps
included. Here are the results, ten years later:
The baffles are holding up perfectly. That surprised me, since I thought
that vibration or chafe would do them in.
The spinner bulkhead was lost in a stupid mishap during the first month of
operation. It would embarrass me to describe it, so I won't. But the
non-flight incident had nothing to do with the powder coating, which
survived.
The engine mount is intact with no cracks in the paint anywhere, in spite of
numerous things clamped or screwed to the mount. However, the custom color
is discolored in some areas that are close to the exhaust, in spite of the
heat shields. I don't know if that would have happened if the exhaust system
had been wrapped in insulation, but it is bare.
The landing gear legs are generally still okay. There's a dimple in the legs
where a brake line bracket snaps on, and I foolishly used that bracket for
about four years. The paint cracked there, and on my last preflight I
noticed a trace of corrosion there. There are a number of small chips in the
pain where the legs had been struck by rocks tossed up from the prop (I
don't always use pavement, and for that matter, don't always use airports.)
There is no corrosion on any of those. In retrospect, I should have removed
the brake line clip permanently when I painted the legs, and added some sort
of gravel barrier, like a clear tape or something (maybe a fiberglass
fairing....) to the leading edge.
3. I installed an engine pre-oiler. This one, by www.oilamatic.com, has
proved to be an excellent device, requiring no maintenance and working quite
reliably. I use it on start-up and on shut-down, even though it's not
certified for operation during engine operation. I've noticed that if I
don't use it on shut-down, that the oil pressure fades off before the prop
stops. If I use it, the prop hits the final compression stroke and bounces
back before stopping. I can feel the difference if I pressurize the system
in the hangar and move the prop. Also, I can use it after an oil and filter
change to pressurize the system before starting the engine, both for a leak
check and to avoid running the motor while the new filter is filling. This
device is a must-have, in my opinion.
I have no connection with either McMaster-Carr or Oilamatic, outside of
being a happy customer.
I'm sending this to the RV-8 list and the more general RV list, so if you're
on both and get two copies, that's why. My apologies.
Dave Paule
Cessna 180 "Big Hammer"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "POP" rivets |
Sorry, What I wanted to know is...
What are the application guidlines for pop rivets?
In other words, for a given application, which pop rivet should you use?
There is obviously more to it than grip length and diameter since there are
so many of the little devils.
Dave
> [Original Message]
> From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
> To:
> Date: 1/3/2005 12:42:33 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: "POP" rivets
>
>
> >
> >
> >Is there an easy way to differentiate "structural" and "non-structural"
> >pop rivets?
>
> On Van's web page, there is a "Construction FAQs" page. On that
> page, there is a link to a "Materials" pdf. This lists a lot of very
> important stuff that is not in the standard manual, including a picture
> identification of all the different types of "pop" rivets.
>
> Here is the link:
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/materials.pdf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Strakes |
But, most aircraft have an airspeed error that goes very strange as
you approach the stall. So a change of five knots IAS is probably
quite a bit less when expressed in CAS. I once flew an aircraft that
had such a strange airspeed error near the stall that as you
approached the stall the IAS would go to a minimum, and then start
increasing again before the aircraft stalled. Of course the flight
test airspeed system, with a pitot probe on a nose boom, and a
trailing cone static system, showed that the CAS was decreasing the
whole time, as you would expect. So don't put too much weight on
changes in indicated stall speed. I believe that those strakes could
help reduce the stall speed, but it won't likely be as much as 5 kt
CAS.
Kevin Horton
>
>Hi Stu,
>
>Thanks for the info. I think I'll do it like you did and fly first to
>see how it feels, and then add them later. Five knots is too much to
>just leave on the table!
>
>Best regards, and happy new year,
>
>Mickey
>
>
>> That would be me. I did install strakes on my RV-8. I flew it
>>first without them
>> and documented my airspeeds and that I did indeed have significant
>>'tail shake'
>> prior to the stall. It is caused by the dirty air in a near stall
>>coming around
>> the fuselage/landing gear just under the leading edge, and with no
>>energy the wing
>> does not streamline the air, so it hits the horzontal Stab and
>>shakes it about an
>> inch at the tip. I installed some Cessna 414 engine nacelle
>>strakes (I bought at
>> Robertson in Arlington WA) on the fuselage in front of and above
>>the leading edge.
>> Next flight there was NO tail shake and NO prestall buffet. In
>>documenting changes
>> after installation, I saw no top end penalty and a 5 knot
>>reduction in stall speed.
>> Worked for me.
>>
>> This mod is not for everyone in that the prestall buffet is gone.
>>If one needs
>> that buffet to let them know he are close to stall, he should not
>>install them.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Shaking |
This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
suggested for ease of removal? Inquiring minds would like to know, before I
complete my plenum.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Scott,
According to the SACRAMENTO SKYRANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL, the Lycoming
engines distort almost 1/4" while running. 3/16" of this takes place in the
crankcases. The other 1/16" is due to expansion of each cylinder head as it
is stressed by the compression stroke of the engine. I think that it is for
this reason that the vertical baffles are not one solid piece.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | WTB Sensinich Prop |
Would Jerry from SC who called Todd about the prop, call him again, he lost
your number this morning.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Here is the request I posted.
The guy who runs the local FBO bought a RV-6 that has a cut down metal prop
on it, ( ~70.5") and he would like to buy a Sensinich Metal prop. This
airplane has a 150 hp but he might buy something that needed repitched if it
was wrong.
Call 641-430-9898 and tell him I told you to call.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
MCW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle-sourced fresh air |
Randy,
I and others have used this method. The main problem (besides any safety
factors including fire, fumes ,etc) was slowing down to pattern speeds on a
hot day. The inrush of hot air was very noticable. The solution that I used
was to extend the tube forward to the left front engine cooling air opening
in the cowling. Big improvement in air temps especialy at slower speeds.
BTY, in cruise flight, I measure about 3 degrees F warmer than the air that
comes through the vent for the back seater (which is from the bottom of the
right wing). I would think that this is due to the air being warmed as
passes over the crankcase and on to the firewall. I've been meaning to put a
stainless steel airbox on the firewall that can be closed via a cable, but
it just hasn't happened yet. It would seem safer. I can send pictures if
needed.
Ivan Haecker -4 1123hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: RV-List: Baffle-sourced fresh air
>
> Listers,
>
> Due to the difficulty of finding a good path to bring cockpit fresh air in
> on an RV-3 I am considering taking a 2" scat tub off the upper back of the
> baffle, running it through the upper firewall, then down to an aluminum
vent
> in my center console. I believe I have seen RVs with this set-up before
but
> can't remember who or where.
>
> Has anyone used this method?
>
> Noticed any warming of the air? (I wouldn't think so due to the velocity,
> but it's a consideration).
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV3 #11375, fuselage
> www.rv-3.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>D, and others,
>
>I would add one more comment to Dan's comment about recharging a battery
>with an alternator. It isn't that great for the battery either. Lead acid's
>prefer slow charging, and alternator's don't really know how to do this if
>the battery has been fully discharged.
Flooded lead acid batteries prefer slow charging. The opposite is
true (within limits) for the modern Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) sealed
lead-acid (SLA) batteries that we all use in our airplanes.
AGM batteries have no problem whatsoever with high amperage
charging, as long as you don't get them hot enough to melt the plastic
case. :-) You can charge an AGM at close to it's CCA rating as long as you
limit the voltage to under 15 volts (and watch the temperature if you do
more than one cycle.)
>So, if you leave the master on over night then stay on the ground and
>recharge the battery with a charger, unless of course you absolutely must go
>flying... even then it is good to slow charge (ie 5 amps max) the battery
>for half an hour rather then nail it with max alternator output from the get
>go.
Not so with AGM type batteries.
I learned "just a little bit" about batteries while working on my
motorcycle:
http://www.KillaCycle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
Does anyone have information on a partially (mostly?) completed RV6-A on an
airpark near Ocala FL? My understanding is that the builder passed away.
Someone not on the list is interested and asked me to inquire.
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 563 hours
Maple Grove, MN
<http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/>
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
<http://www.home.earthlink.net/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Wheel/pant clearance |
The topic of the nose over is timely. I am currently setting up the wheel pants
on my 7 and could not find (or missed it) a recommended clearance value between
the tire and wheel pants. Does anyone have such a measurement? My neighbors
8 is at least an inch all the way around.
Thanks in advance,
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Alex, no information on that one. But, I do know of a RV-6 that is
completed with the exception of the FWF portion that is for sale. I do not
know any of the details but can give you the e mail of a person that does -
if interested. It is located in the vicinity of Charlotte, NC
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ocala
>
> Does anyone have information on a partially (mostly?) completed RV6-A on
an
> airpark near Ocala FL? My understanding is that the builder passed away.
> Someone not on the list is interested and asked me to inquire.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A 563 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
> <http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/>
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> <http://www.home.earthlink.net/>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Shaking |
Marty,
My question too. I am currently fitting the one-piece carbon fiber plenum
from Jon Johanson. It's very nicely made, and uses the front lower baffles
and rear bulkhead baffle from Van's kit, but it's solid between the
cylinders on each side. I am hoping that there is enough flexibility to
handle any movement between the cylinders. I am currently figuring out how
to reinforce the rear baffle for the oil cooler mounting and still be able
to remove the plenum without removing the oil cooler. I think I can make it
work ok, but I am might still try to mount the cooler to the engine mount
frame, or look at Eustace's method of putting it under the front ramp.
I heard that they guy rebuilding the ground-looped RV-8 that had the Sam
James cowl and plenum found some cracks in the plenum. This is third hand
info, so please don't take my word for it. Hopefully the carbon fiber in my
plenum will prevent any cracking. Time will tell.
Terry
This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
suggested for ease of removal? Inquiring minds would like to know, before I
complete my plenum.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle-sourced fresh air |
>Due to the difficulty of finding a good path to bring cockpit fresh air
in
>on an RV-3 I am considering taking a 2" scat tub off the upper back of
the
>baffle, running it through the upper firewall, then down to an aluminum
>vent in my center console.
My RV-4 main cockpit vents come off a two inch flange in the upper
center of the engine cowl. It enters via scat tubing to a stainless
steel firewall fitting with a cut-off butterfly plate, controlled from
the cockpit. The fitting then splits into two two inch scats (so it is
"Y" shaped)that feed into two one inch eyeball vents on lower outer
sides of the panel, each are also, of course, closable. They are almost
never closed, winter or summer as I like the fresh air they provide. The
temp may be a few degrees above ambient temperature; I have often
thought of measuring exactly how much higher, but when I am thinking
about it, I have nothing to measure it with. I have NEVER smelled
anything from the engine compartment, including at startup; i.e., fumes
from a sitting engine. This is a tail dragger as the -3 would be; maybe
it would be different in a nose dragger.
This setup provides PLENTY of air blasting into the cockpit. I have a
canopy partially open capability so ground ventilation is not a problem.
I have also not noticed a sudden blast of hot air in the pattern or with
other reductions of power. The air is still of fast enough velocity it
isn't that much warmer. I have an under the wing vent for the back seat
and that will blow your wig off. I angle it towards the front seat when
no one is back there.
I have thought of putting a fiberglass channel from the cowl intakes to
the area of the vent opening on the baffling but, again, that involves
down time and I would rather fly. And the present set up works just
fine.
Pictures? My conditional inspection is February and it would have to
wait for that.
Hope this helps.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | release the hounds |
Do any of you guys know how to reach Brian Baumgarner, formerly of Neosho MO ?
I've had it with this guy.....he has apparently split to Florida somewhere leaving
behind an $820.00 fuel tank bill which is years past due (literally). He
called me in a desperate hurry for a new tank because he had a damaged one on
an airplane he had sold. I went out of pocket for parts/labor and shipping costs
to help him....only to be left hanging. I have got to tell you, I never cease
to be baffled when someone takes advantage of my trust. Thankfully it rarely
happens in this community, and I still routinely ship out finished product before
billing. Airplane folks as a rule are well above average when it comes to
honesty. Any help would be appreciated.......As a matter of fact, I have a new
airspeed indicator (or donation for same amount to charity in your name) for
whichever person recovers this lost revenue. I know this sounds harsh, but you
have to understand I have been polite in many phone calls and multiple letters
and have received only empty promises of payment. To me this is a significant
amount of money and it would not be fair to myself or my family to just let
it go.
Regards.....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel/pant clearance |
There should be a minimum of 1" distance from the top of the tire to the
wheel pant as it sits on the tire. This is in the builder's book or plans
somewhere. The spread around the tire should be about 5.8" (the width of
your finger.) The top distance has been a problem for some who fly off of
grass strips. You might consider making that 1 1/4" to help that. As you
raise it, it will slightly increase your wind drag. Might try the archives
for previous discussions on this.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Wheel/pant clearance
>
> The topic of the nose over is timely. I am currently setting up the wheel
pants on my 7 and could not find (or missed it) a recommended clearance
value between the tire and wheel pants. Does anyone have such a measurement?
My neighbors 8 is at least an inch all the way around.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | Rv-7 Removable Floors |
Just openings, not removable floors...
http://rv7.us/daily041217%20f.htm
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Piavis
Subject: RV-List: Rv-7 Removable Floors
Does anyone have decent photos of removable baggage floors? I'm at that
point where it would be nice to drill for plate nuts on the baggage ribs but
I'm having some problems finding a couple pictures to follow, especially
around the F680 flap bearing block and the backrest brace.
Thanks,
Jim
-7 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | release the hounds |
Check the FAA aircraft registry web site for his address. I have found
people that way before.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Subject: RV-List: release the hounds
Do any of you guys know how to reach Brian Baumgarner, formerly of Neosho MO
? I've had it with this guy.....he has apparently split to Florida somewhere
leaving behind an $820.00 fuel tank bill which is years past due
(literally). He called me in a desperate hurry for a new tank because he had
a damaged one on an airplane he had sold. I went out of pocket for
parts/labor and shipping costs to help him....only to be left hanging. I
have got to tell you, I never cease to be baffled when someone takes
advantage of my trust. Thankfully it rarely happens in this community, and I
still routinely ship out finished product before billing. Airplane folks as
a rule are well above average when it comes to honesty. Any help would be
appreciated.......As a matter of fact, I have a new airspeed indicator (or
donation for same amount to charity in your name) for whichever person
recovers this lost revenue. I know this sounds harsh, but you have to
understand I have been polite in many pho!
ne calls and multiple letters and have received only empty promises of
payment. To me this is a significant amount of money and it would not be
fair to myself or my family to just let it go.
Regards.....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Strakes |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
The strakes might also be messing with the static ports at a high angle
of attack which could help give an inaccurate airspeed reading.
Dave B.
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>But, most aircraft have an airspeed error that goes very strange as
>you approach the stall. So a change of five knots IAS is probably
>quite a bit less when expressed in CAS. I once flew an aircraft that
>had such a strange airspeed error near the stall that as you
>approached the stall the IAS would go to a minimum, and then start
>increasing again before the aircraft stalled. Of course the flight
>test airspeed system, with a pitot probe on a nose boom, and a
>trailing cone static system, showed that the CAS was decreasing the
>whole time, as you would expect. So don't put too much weight on
>changes in indicated stall speed. I believe that those strakes could
>help reduce the stall speed, but it won't likely be as much as 5 kt
>CAS.
>
>Kevin Horton
>
>
>
>>
>>Hi Stu,
>>
>>Thanks for the info. I think I'll do it like you did and fly first to
>>see how it feels, and then add them later. Five knots is too much to
>>just leave on the table!
>>
>>Best regards, and happy new year,
>>
>>Mickey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> That would be me. I did install strakes on my RV-8. I flew it
>>>first without them
>>> and documented my airspeeds and that I did indeed have significant
>>>'tail shake'
>>> prior to the stall. It is caused by the dirty air in a near stall
>>>coming around
>>> the fuselage/landing gear just under the leading edge, and with no
>>>energy the wing
>>> does not streamline the air, so it hits the horzontal Stab and
>>>shakes it about an
>>> inch at the tip. I installed some Cessna 414 engine nacelle
>>>strakes (I bought at
>>> Robertson in Arlington WA) on the fuselage in front of and above
>>>the leading edge.
>>> Next flight there was NO tail shake and NO prestall buffet. In
>>>documenting changes
>>> after installation, I saw no top end penalty and a 5 knot
>>>reduction in stall speed.
>>> Worked for me.
>>>
>>> This mod is not for everyone in that the prestall buffet is gone.
>>>If one needs
>>> that buffet to let them know he are close to stall, he should not
>>>install them.
>>>
>>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | release the hounds |
>Do any of you guys know how to reach Brian Baumgarner, formerly of Neosho
>MO ? I've had it with this guy.....he has apparently split to Florida
>somewhere leaving behind an $820.00 fuel tank bill which is years past due
>(literally). He called me in a desperate hurry for a new tank because he
>had a damaged one on an airplane he had sold. I went out of pocket for
>parts/labor and shipping costs to help him....only to be left hanging. I
>have got to tell you, I never cease to be baffled when someone takes
>advantage of my trust. Thankfully it rarely happens in this community, and
>I still routinely ship out finished product before billing. Airplane folks
>as a rule are well above average when it comes to honesty. Any help would
>be appreciated.......As a matter of fact, I have a new airspeed indicator
>(or donation for same amount to charity in your name) for whichever person
>recovers this lost revenue. I know this sounds harsh, but you have to
>understand I have been polite in many pho!
>ne calls and multiple letters and have received only empty promises of
>payment. To me this is a significant amount of money and it would not be
>fair to myself or my family to just let it go.
>
>
>Regards.....
>
>
>Evan Johnson
>www.evansaviationproducts.com
>(530)247-0375
>(530)351-1776 cell
In trying to recover the good name I share (Brian), I will keep this issue
stored in my noggin if'n I ever come across this varmint. It's really bad
form to stiff someone for services rendered. Kharma gonna bite him in the
butt for sure if he doesn't make it right.
My best wishes that this is resolved for you promptly.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Wheel/pant clearance |
I'm still struggling with my wheel pants too. To get the full 1" or more of
clearance between the top of the tire and the fairing, I'm going to have to
cut the inboard area near the caliper to get some more clearance. With
about 3/4" clearance above the tire things look real good, until I lower the
tail -- then the clearance aft of the tire goes to about 5/8". Too little,
even on a good landing day.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/11/wheel_pants.html
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming(at)sigecom.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:31 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel/pant clearance
>
> -->
>
> There should be a minimum of 1" distance from the top of the
> tire to the wheel pant as it sits on the tire. This is in
> the builder's book or plans somewhere. The spread around the
> tire should be about 5.8" (the width of your finger.) The
> top distance has been a problem for some who fly off of grass
> strips. You might consider making that 1 1/4" to help that.
> As you raise it, it will slightly increase your wind drag.
> Might try the archives for previous discussions on this.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
> To: ; ;
>
> Subject: RV-List: Wheel/pant clearance
>
>
> >
> > The topic of the nose over is timely. I am currently
> setting up the wheel
> pants on my 7 and could not find (or missed it) a recommended
> clearance
> value between the tire and wheel pants. Does anyone have such
> a measurement?
> My neighbors 8 is at least an inch all the way around.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Re: first new RV flight in 2005 |
Mark/Micki Phillips wrote:
>
>Hey Phil, congratulations on the maiden flight. Sorry I missed it.
>
>Mark Phillips
>RV-6 Banjer picker
>Williamsville, Illinois
>
>
It was a very good hour in the air.... PS
Why Airplanes Are Better than Women
An airplane will kill you quick . . . a woman takes her time.
Airplanes like to do it inverted.
Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch.
An airplane does not get mad if you 'touch and go.'
An airplane does not object to a preflight inspection.
Airplanes come with manuals.
Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits.
Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown.
When flying, you and your airplane both arrive at the same time.
Airplanes don't mind if you look at other airplanes, or if you buy
airplane magazines.
It's always OK to use tie downs on your airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollins(at)visi.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Tru Trak hardware |
After 4 days of searching every nook and cranny of the Web and the list, I
finally found a site which had specific reccomended hardware for the TruTrak
installation (Trutrak didn't send me a hardware callout as requested,
instead, just an e-mail that said it's "10-32 threads"....duh, no kidding!).
Anyway, props to this site :
http://www.rvproject.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/part_R_wing.html#ID2119. And here
for archival purposes is his recommendation:
* 3x NAS1801-3-20 (Fully threaded bolts)
* 1x AN3-13A & 1x AN3-7A bolts
* 3x AN960-10L washers
* 1x AN960-10 washer
* 4x AN960-3 washers
* 5x AN3 NyLocks - MS21044N3
Hope this helps someone in a similar state of confusion.
Bob
St. Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins [mailto:bcollins(at)visi.com]
Subject: Tru Trak hardware
I'm curious if anyone has a hardware callout for mounting the Tru Trak servo
to the brackets. In perusing the archives it seems the best way to handle
this is reaming out the holes and using a bolt and nut. So I'm also looking
for any site or info that explains the art of safety wiring.
Thanks
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle-sourced fresh air |
>My RV-4 main cockpit vents come off a two inch flange in the upper
>center of the engine cowl. It enters via scat tubing to a stainless
>steel firewall fitting with a cut-off butterfly plate, controlled from
>the cockpit. The fitting then splits into two two inch scats......
Randy had a question regarding where the flange was located in the cowl.
Even though I reread the post several times it came out saying that the
flange was in the COWL. No. It is in the BAFFLING: the upper baffling,
just right of centerline. Sorry if this confused anyone.
I was also asked if the cowl had a NACA vent on top. No. The Very/Long
EZ series has this on the top of the canopy and is a great place to get
a shower if it rains and, in the RV series, a great way to water the
inside of your cockpit on the ground as it is impossible to make it
water tight. The nose of the EZs are on the ground when parked.
Someone also asked if there was a NACA vent that went to a three inch
scat. Yikes. That would make a huge hole somewhere. I have seen NACA
vents on -4s on the forward fuselage, just aft of the cowl. One I saw
had a little dam just forward of the inlet to get more air to flow into
the vent. You also will get some engine heat spill in that area. The
archives will probably tell you the original NACA vents in the canopy
was not a great idea either.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Shaking
This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
suggested for ease of removal?
I have over 200 hours on a plenum made using Van's baffles and a self
designed aluminum "roof" that I attached with hinge pins. It has worked well
with only a couple of minor cracks. It also helps support the baffle mounted
oil cooler.
Don Piermattei
RV-9A
Carr, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com
I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the "holy
cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - Colorado
www.rv8a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure |
I have one of the "screwed down" plenums which you describe.
http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/plenum.htm
I initially used hinge pins to connect the two top pieces. What I found
was that there was a lot of "fretting" of the hinges where the pin would
rub in the hinge due to vibration, and I think a system using hinges to
hold the whole thing together would wear over time. I replaced the
hinge pins with drill rod stock which was a VERY tight fit, ie. had to
be lubed up and run in with a drill, but it doesn't vibrate around any more.
Even with screws, removal is a 5 minute job with an electric drill. I
can remove the screws for one outer panel (1/4 of the total screws) in
about 1 minute, and have access to the top plugs on that side. I use
Torx screws and this helps too.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
List,
I've tried without success to find Jon Johanson's website for info on his
carbon fibre plenum. Anyone know?
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:04:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson"
Marty,
My question too. I am currently fitting the one-piece carbon fiber plenum
from Jon Johanson. It's very nicely made, and uses the front lower baffles
and rear bulkhead baffle from Van's kit, but it's solid between the
cylinders on each side. I am hoping that there is enough flexibility to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure |
Don,
I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
(replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care anymore.
This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
Would I do it again? NO!
Just one mans perspective
Gary Zilik
Don/Marcia Piermattei wrote:
>
> From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Shaking
>
>
> This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
> peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
> I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
> angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
> think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
> movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
> suggested for ease of removal?
> I have over 200 hours on a plenum made using Van's baffles and a self
> designed aluminum "roof" that I attached with hinge pins. It has worked well
> with only a couple of minor cracks. It also helps support the baffle mounted
> oil cooler.
> Don Piermattei
> RV-9A
> Carr, CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Jon Johanson's website is: http://flymore.com.au/
The plenum is a one-piece carbon fiber top, sides, and front that replaces
most of the side and front baffles. You still use Van's front lower and
rear baffles, or Jon supplies ones with the kit. I already had Van's baffle
kit, so I didn't get Jon's baffles. It is designed to be connected by piano
hinges to the rear baffle. To remove it, you would remove the hinge pins
and the two screws into each cylinder head. He supplies large aluminum
washers to reinforce the carbon fiber around the holes for the cylinder head
bolts.
Terry
List,
I've tried without success to find Jon Johanson's website for info on his
carbon fibre plenum. Anyone know?
Jerry Cochran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
In a message dated 1/3/05 6:15:38 PM Central Standard Time,
emrath(at)comcast.net writes:
> So do these plenums self distruct from all the
> movement?
>>>>
Mine's been moving along at about 150-185 mph for 144 hours so far- no
cracks, works great, less filling! 8-)
How's she coming along? N51PW is off to Tuscaloosa for clothing as soon as
WX looks better!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle-sourced fresh air |
When my 6 was still flying, it had this set up. Worked fine where the
plane was built in New England, caused roasting in the Washington DC
area. Will NA ducts when it flies again.
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
Scott,
According to the SACRAMENTO SKYRANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL, the Lycoming
engines distort almost 1/4" while running. 3/16" of this takes place in the
crankcases. The other 1/16" is due to expansion of each cylinder head as it
is stressed by the compression stroke of the engine. I think that it is for
this reason that the vertical baffles are not one solid piece.
Charlie Kuss
Charlie,
I have a Lycoming apart here on the bench. There are studs through the case
into each cylinder which are the main bearing "bolts." If they stretched
3/16" they would break, for sure. Where the cylinder mounts at the 4 corners,
and there are not through-studs, there is 2" of very meaty casting to the
next through-stud. Where does all this movement happen?
Also, I'm sure you meant the power stroke, not the compression stroke!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Walton, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Dahl" <dahlhouse(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
Gary,
Did you have any change in airspeed after installing the regular baffle
seals?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)excelgeo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum closure
>
> Don,
>
> I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
> The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
> about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
> (replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
> think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
> of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
> cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
> how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care
anymore.
>
> This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
> seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
> the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
> and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
> their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
> destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
>
> Would I do it again? NO!
>
> Just one mans perspective
>
> Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage Stand drawings done |
0.51 WEIRD_PORT URI: Uses non-standard port number for HTTP
Since no one that was interested in the design seemed to have any ideas
to change it, I finished the drawings and posted them in a pdf file on
my web server. You can find it here:
http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/aviation/stands/
Now that the drawings are done, I'm sure some one will want to change
something. That's the way it always worked when I did this for a
living. I hope my less than professional detailing can be forgiven,
when I'm not getting paid, that level of detail is just too much work.
Chris W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
Changes in airspeed would be hard to document since I have done no
recent testing of TAS. I would guess that since my cooling inputs are
stock Van's there should be negligible differences. One thing is I have
always had higher (compared to similar RV's on the field) oil temps from
day one. My oil temps are down and react faster to airspeed changes than
when I had the plenum. My single CHT is also about 15F lower running
around 335F in cruise. Of course this may be due to the cooler OAT's
this time of year.
The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
too.
Gary
Christopher Dahl wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> Did you have any change in airspeed after installing the regular baffle
> seals?
>
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)excelgeo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum closure
>
>
>
>>
>>Don,
>>
>>I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
>>The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
>>about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
>>(replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
>>think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
>>of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
>>cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
>>how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care
>
> anymore.
>
>>This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
>>seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
>>the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
>>and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
>>their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
>>destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
>>
>>Would I do it again? NO!
>>
>>Just one mans perspective
>>
>>Gary Zilik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum Cowl... |
Bill,
Yes . . . that was probably me . . . I talked to Sam James and he said it
could be done . . . and "wasn't that difficult" (for Sam) . . . he also
stated that you experience most of the efficiency gain from the "holy cowl"
. . . in other words, most of the gain is from the plenum.
I should also mention the most others I talked to - thought is was "more
than they wanted to tackle"!
I'll look back and see if I can find the original email.
Regards,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
;
Subject: RV-List: Plenum Cowl...
>
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
>
> -Bill VonDane
> RV-8A - Colorado
> www.rv8a.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
I am finishing an RV-6A with an 0-320 engine fitted with an Air Flow
Performance Fuel injection. When I tried to mate the lower cowl air
scoop to the lower cowl, it would not fit over Van's standard 0-320 FAB.
The AFP throttle body sits almost exactly one inch lower than a Lycoming
carb. Van's solution is that I need an 0-360 air scoop, with the caveat
that "if that doesn't work, I may have to switch to a FAB 360 AP air
box." The 0-360 air scoop sells for $60 plus shipping, the FAB 360 AP
air box costs $120 plus shipping.
Surely I'm not the only one out there with this set up, but Van's seemed
unsure as how I should correct it. Is there anybody else out there with
an 0-320 and a AFP Fuel Injection? What airscoop/FAB did you use to
solve the problem? If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
Charlie Brame wrote:
> If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
>scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
>
>
>
I would bet you could not measure any difference in drag. When I changed
from an O-320 to an O-360
I use my old O-320 scoop. I cut it off and glassed it back on where I
wanted it to be to accommodate the
large carburetor.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Plenum Cowl... |
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
Sam James (http://www.jamesaircraft.com) sells individual rings. I bought
one of his machined aluminum rings for my ram air inlet. They're a little
pricey if I recall, but for a perfectly machined piece of aluminum it's
worth it if you don't have your own machine shop (wish I did).
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
>
>The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
>told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
>fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
>Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
>plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
>too.
>
Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
thing.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: replace starter for io-360/induction snorkel fit |
Hi Lucky,
I used the Sky-Tek starter part number 149-12LS available from Aircraft
Spruce.
BTW check below for how I received your post.
Dan Hopper
Walton IN
RV-7A N766DH
In a message dated 1/4/05 11:17:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, luc
kymacy(at)comcast.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel
doesn't fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit
around or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby
also add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters
on the other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be
tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything that appears to be a time saver in the
end seem to require additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel
doesn't fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit
around or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby
also add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters
on the other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be
tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything thatappears to be a time saverin the
endseem torequire additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
Kevin,
I had silicon airseals all the way around the cowl inlets which sealed
very well.
Gary
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>
>>The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
>>told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
>>fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
>>Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
>>plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
>>too.
>>
>
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
> thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Plenum cowl rings |
I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the "holy
cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
Bill,
Another source of rings is Richard Martin, Green Bay WI, 920/432-4845
Don Piermattei
RV-9A
Carr CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum cowl rings |
I'm pretty sure the Richard Martin used the "Sam James cowl"??
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: RV-List: Plenum cowl rings
>
>
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
>
> Bill,
> Another source of rings is Richard Martin, Green Bay WI, 920/432-4845
>
> Don Piermattei
> RV-9A
> Carr CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
> The thermal coefficient of expansion of aluminum is 24 parts per million per
> degree C. Steel is half of that, or 12 ppm/degree C. That's a lot of
> degrees C. to get 3/16 inch! The whole engine (crankcase and accessory case)
is
> about 20 inches long. 3/16 divided by 20 is 9375 parts per million. Divide
> that by 24 is 391 degrees C rise, or 703 degrees F rise. I doubt if the case
> gets that hot, but we are at least in the same order of magnitude. I guess
> half could be thermal and half could be vibration, at least out at the
> cylinder heads. Interesting.
Dan, an acquaintance of mine who has been involved with quite a few
airframe/powerplant stc's and certifications (a recently notable one
is the Columbia 400) described to me one of the tests that was
performed while in the dyno cell for that particular IO-550/turbo
combination. The way I understood him there is a powerful lamp below
the engine that shines up through the engine with a grid above
appropriately scaled so they can measure the amount of movement of the
cylinders and various components. Apparently things move around quite
a bit. He did say you can actually watch the cylinders move around.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Mexico fee structure update |
This just in from the Baja Bush Pilots. The airspace fee is changing. In
my recent experience they charged 0.80 pesos per liter (about US$0.28 per
gallon). It worked out to about $9 whenever I topped off. Now it's
actually supposed to be fixed, which will be slightly cheaper for us small
time RVators when we top off.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Major fee change in Mexico - 1/5/2005
Mexico has added a new fixed fee "air space" tax that is to be paid each
time you purchase fuel be it one gallon or one hundred gallons. The fuel tax
has been discontinued. For most foreign pilots, this is how it works:
For an aircraft with a wingspan up to:
10 meters, (33') the tax is N$70 or about US$7.00
11.1 meters, (36') the tax is N$100 or about US$10.00
12.5 meters, (40') the tax is N$150 or about US$15.00
There are several problems with this however; at this point, they don't
specify what the charge is for aircraft that have a wingspan in excess of 40
'. We are getting reports from both Mexican and American pilots that the
tax goes from US$300 for a King Air up to US$1,200 for a Jet. (I don't
know what they are going to charge for our aircraft which is 49')
This is not a DGAC tax and the people at the DGAC (the Airport Commanders)
have no control over it.
We are talking to Mexico about this at this time however; it is a major
issue that will create a lot of confusion for all sized aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
In a message dated 1/5/05 4:43:37 AM Central Standard Time,
khorton01(at)rogers.com writes:
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
> thing.
>>>>
On my dual aluminum plenums I opted to do no sealing at all to see if it was
necessary- easy to goop it up later and I wanted to avoid the mess if I had to
make modifications. Initial flight testing in January made this decision
easier. There are quite a few holes and gaps where leakage must be occuring on
mine, but they cool quite nicely with no sealant so far even on 90+ degree days
here in TN on my 150hp Lyc- bigger, badder motors may not get by so easily...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - 6A, 144 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
In a message dated 1/5/05 8:43:48 AM Central Standard Time,
zilik(at)excelgeo.com writes:
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> >and the plenum?
>>>
Duh- after re-read I see you asked specifically about the INLETS- I used the
kit-supplied baffle seal material that came with the kit with 1/2-3/4" gaps
between the inlets and the plenums (pleni?). A "U"-shaped piece across the
bottom half all the way up the sides that tuck inside the plenum inlet while
installing the cowl, and another strip across the top half that just lays on top
of
the plenum roof... Again, not a perfect seal, but I ain't aguing with
results!
Sorry- I'll read more closely before sending next time! 8-(
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Sub Assembly storage ... |
Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and will
need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out of the
way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the next few
years.
-- John (RV-9A)
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
When I was building my -8, I built racks for the wall to put the rudder,
V-stab, and elevators on and mounted it in my basement. I then built two
racks for the ceiling for the wings and the H-stab. I used carpet to
cushion them on the racks...worked well. I did not cover them, so I had to
remove some dust, but that was it. If you lived near me, you could have
them.
Jim
Jim Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
150+ Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org>
Subject: RV-List: Sub Assembly storage ...
>
> Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
will
> need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out
of the
> way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
> anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the
next few
> years.
>
> -- John (RV-9A)
>
> www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
> www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
If any of you builders are looking for cheap engine stands, I just got a
Northern Tool + Equipment catalog in the mail, (flyer 1515) and page 5 has a
1250 lb. engine stand on casters for $49. Looks like the stuff I see at
Harbor Freight so maybe it would work for somebody.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
http://www.northerntool.com
1-800-533-5545
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
There are probably as many ways to store these as there
are builders, but I believe stacking them on the top
shelf in the garage (assuming it is fairly dry) wrapped
in an old blanket or sheet, with sticks of styrofoam
between them is a good way. Just make sure they don't
fall down, but are easy to reach when you want to show
your buddies what you're up to.
Mickey
>>Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
>>will
>>need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out
>>of the
>>way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
>>anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the
>>next few
>>years.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
Charlie,
We installed the same engine on our RV-9A using the fab box that came with
the firewall forward kit and it fit the -9 cowl without modification. It
even lined up with the air inlet on the scope perfectly.
Mike Robertson
>From: Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV-List
>Subject: RV-List: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem
>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:58:43 -0600
>
>
>I am finishing an RV-6A with an 0-320 engine fitted with an Air Flow
>Performance Fuel injection. When I tried to mate the lower cowl air
>scoop to the lower cowl, it would not fit over Van's standard 0-320 FAB.
>The AFP throttle body sits almost exactly one inch lower than a Lycoming
>carb. Van's solution is that I need an 0-360 air scoop, with the caveat
>that "if that doesn't work, I may have to switch to a FAB 360 AP air
>box." The 0-360 air scoop sells for $60 plus shipping, the FAB 360 AP
>air box costs $120 plus shipping.
>
>Surely I'm not the only one out there with this set up, but Van's seemed
>unsure as how I should correct it. Is there anybody else out there with
>an 0-320 and a AFP Fuel Injection? What airscoop/FAB did you use to
>solve the problem? If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
>scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tomvelvick(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ |
O-320 E2A Lycoming Engine 2279 TTSN, first run, disassembled for overhaul. Crankshaft, Cam and Rods have been overhauled by Aircraft Specialities in Tulsa, Ok. Crankshaft has standard grind on rod and main bearings, was not turned down. Crankshaft and rods were also balanced to help the engine run smoother while at Aircraft Specialities. Does not include mags or starter (bendix and heavy old starter) unless you want them for a core, but does include the carburator. This engine has the hollow crank and can be set up for constant speed. Dynafocal mount. $5000.00 I was rebuilding this engine for my rv-6a project, but came across a O-360 A1A with 600 SMOH that I bought. Contact Tom Velvick 623-979-2519 home 623-261-2906 cell see pictures at www.eaa538.org/forsale.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
In a message dated 1/5/05 12:36:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
spike(at)spikesplace.org writes:
Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
will
need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out of
the
way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the next
few
years.
-- John (RV-9A)
John,
I joined the elevators to the horizontal stab and hung the assembly on the
shop wall with some screw in ladder hooks. Two at the bottom and one at the
top (front) which had to be bent to get the thing unhooked. These are plastic
dipped rods bent to hang ladders on available at the Home Depot type stores.
Worked great. In fact I just looked around and they are still hanging
there with nothing on them anymore. Hmmmm......
I hid the rudder and vertical stab under the bed in the spare bedroom
wrapped in blankets.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
N766DH (Flying since July)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
Folks in the RV community might want to try to head this off in CA - and the rest
of us need to do the same around the country. (It seems the rest of the country
likes to copy the Left Coast tax and spend crowd)!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Len Johnson
Subject: [Canards] Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
Some of you might remember my tussle with the O.C. CA Tax Assessor in 2003. They
wanted to assess my plans-made, homebuilt airplane at $250,000! They agreed
to reassess it at $37,400 (35K plus sales tax) after presenting an appraisal performed
by Dick Ruttan showing that as the actual value. Well, they just changed
their minds. Given that they know far more about fiberglass canard aircraft
than anyone else in the country including Dick Ruttan, they have just reassessed
it for 2005 at over $140,000. This despite knowing it was in a hard landing,
after seeing proof of an insurance claim, and being told that it is still
disassembled in my hangar as it has been for more than a year.
The assessment goes like this: they figure the materials at $40,000 (today's market-
never mind it was plans built over years). Figuring the time spent building
it, they are assessing the value of all the labor for the time it took to
build, for a total of a little over $90,000 in labor costs. They are supporting
this estimate with the blurb on the official Cozy website on the time it takes
to build, while ignoring the blurb on the cost of materials ($14,000). Then,
they add sales tax to the total. This is called cost-based assessment. They
completely ignore their previous assessment; Dick's appraisal; the damage history;
and that the plane is not even flying. If they pull this off, you can guarantee
it will spread through the rest of California like wildfire, and anyone
with a productive hobby will all have to flee the state, along with the businesses
(mine included- on top of the 65% estimate I just got on my Workmen's Comp
Insurance, I've got one foot in Arizona already. Arizona charges a flat $10
a year for experimentals).
The worst part is, it takes 12-18 months to get a hearing, and you have to pay
the assessment in the meantime. They did this a few weeks ago, but waited until
today (Jan 5) to spring it on me, so I'd be legally bound to the 2005 tax year.
The woman on the phone told me so- can you believe that? When I told her I'd
fight it, she threatened to reassess back to 2003 as well. Isn't that sort
of thing subject to some kind of criminal penalties? Don't they call that extortion?
Anyway, I know of no other experimental anywhere in the country that has been assessed
this way. I know of no other 4 place canard (cozy or aerocanard) that
is worth anywhere near this, of that has been assessed for taxes at even half
this much. This is close to a 4 fold increase. It makes you wonder- do these folks
have any clue what this looks like? 250K to 37K to 140K? Is anyone going
to believe them, given they can't give a single corroborating example anywhere
in the entire country for any of this, and you guys can contribute hundreds?
Help me out here, guys. I need some ammunition. We desperately need to get government
at all levels involved to nip this in the bud, or California is going to
put experimental aircraft dead in their sites.
-- Len
Canards mailing list
Canards(at)tnstaafl.net
http://mail.tnstaafl.net/mailman/listinfo/canards_tnstaafl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
My RV4 not completed and still in my garage was valued at $295, 000 by the
Lubbock Central Appraisal District. They said it was in the Aircraft Blue
Book at that! Here we do not have to pay the tax on aircraft used for
private purposes. I was so happy about that I am installing an autopilot.
But I agree there is no standard.
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Hone" <mctrader(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
Gary,
I was interested to note that you had relatively high CHT and oil temps with
your plenum. Although I have only ever flown my O-320 powered 6 with the
Van's baffle kit converted to a closed plenum by way of a screwed-on top
panel, I have had the opposite problem, except for when I was bedding in the
new engine in 40 degree C temps. Now, at 55- 65% power I am struggling to
keep CHT on all cylinders above 400 F and the front baffle-mounted oil
cooler is 80% covered to get the oil up to 170 F. Lycoming guru Paul
McBride reckons my temps are too low, so I may look at restricting the air
inlet or outlets - and maybe pick up a bit more speed ! One thing that I
did note from your plenum pics - you seem to have a large step in the inlet
section, just aft of the opening for the cowl, that could be causing
stalling/turbulence of the incoming airstream.
I tried to maintain a gradual divergence for just this reason - same
principle that works for P-51's and megaphone exhaust systems.
I agree that access to the top plugs is difficult, but with an electric
screw-driver, it takes only a couple of minutes to remove to top panel.
I'd certainly do it again.
Cheers
Martin in Oz
_____
<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El&SG&RAND68590&pa
rtnerfastutility> Block Spam Emails - Click here!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg.Puckett(at)united.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ideas on painting panel? |
Ron,
I can't remember now who gave me this idea but I love the way it came
out.
http://204.31.68.69/DCP=5F252.JPG
It's black Krylon Wrinkle paint in a rattle can from Checker. I then
sprayed textured grey (or whatever color you want) over top.
It took many days to fully dry with the grey over the wrinkle finish but
when it finally did dry, the finish is extremely durable and absolutely
glare free.
I liked it on the panel so much I used only the black wrinkle paint on
the glare shield and it produced a very nice looking non reflecting
surface.
It takes a little practice and experimenting with temperature/coat
thickness/ and time between coats to get what you want. I found it a
little tough to do small items with this stuff but large areas were easy
to do.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
In near future need to paint panel on Europa XS.
It has a fiberglass Instrument Module that will have 3 aluminium
inserts.
The fiberglass has an eyebrow for glare.
What suggestions on painting=3F Should the bottom of brow be very dark=3F I
imagine the top of the fiberglass does not want to be too dark so it
does
not heat up too much=3F
I imagine I want flat on instrument module and brow, what is preference
out
there for face of panel, light / dark flat or gloss=3F
What ideas for on type of paint to use.
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Hone" <mctrader(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
Um, sorry guys....I meant to say I struggle to get over 300 degrees F, not
400 !!!
Thanks to John for picking this up...
Cheers
Martin
_____
<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El&SG&RAND78154&pa
rtnerfastutility> Block Spam Emails - Click here!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
1) Did I read that right, you are trying to keep your CHT's over 400F. ?? I
don't have a Lycoming operators manual for the 0-320 however the 0-360
manual states that at the Bayonet location "for maximum service life of the
engine maintain CHT between 150F. and 400F. during continuous operation".
Most of the RV 0-320's I have experience with cruise at about 330F. - 350F.
CHT on a standard day measured at Bayonet.
2) can anyone out there tell me why a plenum should be any more efficient
than well sealed baffles, (no, my cowl does not bulge out in flight).
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7A wings
----------
I was interested to note that you had relatively high CHT and oil temps with
your plenum. Although I have only ever flown my O-320 powered 6 with the
Van's baffle kit converted to a closed plenum by way of a screwed-on top
panel, I have had the opposite problem, except for when I was bedding in the
new engine in 40 degree C temps. Now, at 55- 65% power I am struggling to
keep CHT on all cylinders above 400 F and the front baffle-mounted oil
cooler is 80% covered to get the oil up to 170 F. Lycoming guru Paul
McBride reckons my temps are too low, so I may look at restricting the air
inlet or outlets - and maybe pick up a bit more speed ! One thing that I
did note from your plenum pics - you seem to have a large step in the inlet
section, just aft of the opening for the cowl, that could be causing
stalling/turbulence of the incoming airstream.
I tried to maintain a gradual divergence for just this reason - same
principle that works for P-51's and megaphone exhaust systems.
I agree that access to the top plugs is difficult, but with an electric
screw-driver, it takes only a couple of minutes to remove to top panel.
I'd certainly do it again.
Cheers
Martin in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Osburn" <flyby41(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
A friend who lives in Kern County Ca. had been taxed many years for an
airplane that was dimantled in his hanger which he paid until they raised
the tax dramatically one year. He called the assessor (yes, you can call
him in Kern Co.) and told him the plane was "dismantled and not airworthy
and why are you taxing me so much all of a sudden.". They don't tax him
anything now. Apparently a dismantled non air worthy airplane is pile of
parts unless it's assembled and in annuall? Is that not so for RV builders
or anyones airplane that is in the process of being completed or built?
When does an airplane become an airplane and when does an airplane cease
being an airplane? I don't know anything. I'm just throwing a few thoughts/
arguments for consideration.
> [Original Message]
> From: Bruce Bell <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To:
> Date: 1/5/2005 6:05:33 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
>
>
> My RV4 not completed and still in my garage was valued at $295, 000 by
the
> Lubbock Central Appraisal District. They said it was in the Aircraft Blue
> Book at that! Here we do not have to pay the tax on aircraft used for
> private purposes. I was so happy about that I am installing an autopilot.
> But I agree there is no standard.
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
I have a similar situation with my plenum- cylinders are about where
they need to be (360-380 in summer) but oil was too low, max of 175F in
summer, and 135 now that winter has set in. I had a small plate
blocking about 1/3 of the rear of the (baffle mounted) oil cooler which
got oil up to 185 in summer. I have since made an adjustable door which
blocks 100% of the cooler when closed, but haven't been able to fly to
get good numbers yet. Yes I did calibrate my oil temp sender. I was
surprised at Gary Zs high temps with a similar setup to mine. I guess
thats what they mean by YMMV.
Jeff Point
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-8 strakes again |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Just wanted to let the list know that on the day I posted the message
looking for Brad Heinitz and my strakes, they were mailed. Amazing. I
received em yesterday and they are a thing of beauty. I asked for .050
instead of the std .040 for the strength at his recommendation due to
the higher S8 speeds. Also he included perfect mounting instructions of
exactly were to put them. He charged $100 for the pair which included
shipping. No way I could have formed these like this.
Ill be posting the numbers during the S8's testing phase for you all.
Both on and off of course so that you will have another data point.
Oh and for those considering gluing their canopy, "Barefoot" Billy
Waters posted a nice write-up and installation pictures for you viewing
pleasure. http://www.mstewart.net/super8/bbcanopy/index.htm
RV8 strakes
Bradford Heinitz
The Aerodyne Shop
360 403 8737
Thanks for the help team finding Brad:-) You Rock!
Michael Stewart
S8, final trimmed canopy last night
Gonna glue it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
>
>
> 1) Did I read that right, you are trying to keep your CHT's over 400F. ??
I
> don't have a Lycoming operators manual for the 0-320 however the 0-360
> manual states that at the Bayonet location "for maximum service life of
the
> engine maintain CHT between 150F. and 400F. during continuous operation".
> Most of the RV 0-320's I have experience with cruise at about 330F. -
350F.
> CHT on a standard day measured at Bayonet.(((((((That typo has since been
corrected to 300 degrees from 400)))
>
> 2) can anyone out there tell me why a plenum should be any more efficient
> than well sealed baffles, (no, my cowl does not bulge out in flight).
(((((The one thing I liked about the plenum, and the reason I built one, is
being able to run the engine with the cowling off without concerns about
lack of cooling or needing to build a cooling shroud/hood. That is
definitely more of a problem without the plenum. If the plenum is built so
air gets into it smoothly, as it does with Vans design, and most all the air
exits are covered except for cylinder, oil, alternator, and magneto cooling
with a feed for air to the heater, then it is all being used to cool. The
limit on cooling is defined by the air coming into *and* exiting the cowling
bottom. Some effenciency can be lost in that regard if the air intake on
the O-360 carburetor, for example, allows air to excape the intake and leak
into the cowling area. This could un-depressurize the cowling area and
reduce the air flow from the plenum area down through the cylinder heads and
other parts getting air flow for cooling. I'd guess that if all other
things are equal with air input volume, sealing off air from escaping
without being used for cooling and exit path, the only other difference to
explain differences in cylinder and oil temps is air leakage around the air
intake for the carb. Any other ideas?))))))))
>
> George in Langley BC
> 6A flying
> 7A wings
> ----------
>
> I was interested to note that you had relatively high CHT and oil temps
with
> your plenum. Although I have only ever flown my O-320 powered 6 with the
> Van's baffle kit converted to a closed plenum by way of a screwed-on top
> panel, I have had the opposite problem, except for when I was bedding in
the
> new engine in 40 degree C temps. Now, at 55- 65% power I am struggling to
> keep CHT on all cylinders above 400 F and the front baffle-mounted oil
((((see earlier comment on 300 degrees)))))))
> cooler is 80% covered to get the oil up to 170 F. Lycoming guru Paul
> McBride reckons my temps are too low, so I may look at restricting the air
> inlet or outlets - and maybe pick up a bit more speed ! One thing that I
> did note from your plenum pics - you seem to have a large step in the
inlet
> section, just aft of the opening for the cowl, that could be causing
> stalling/turbulence of the incoming airstream.(((((((This is the same
potential problem I have with my plenum. I need to work on smoothing the
air path transition somehow coming into the plenum area.)))))))))
> I tried to maintain a gradual divergence for just this reason - same
> principle that works for P-51's and megaphone exhaust systems.
>
> I agree that access to the top plugs is difficult, but with an electric
> screw-driver, it takes only a couple of minutes to remove to top panel.
>
> I'd certainly do it again. (((((((I don't know if I would. Adds lots of
work. Vans claims they have tested the plenum and the baffle method works
just as good and is easier to work with and maintain. I did not like the
idea of the baffle material constantly rubbing and rubbing against the
cowling with vibration. Seems that would eventully cause a problem unless
cowling is redressed with epoxy or paint. But that would be an easy thing
to do each annual if needed. With the plenum, it could always be removed
and the baffle material and inlet to cowling roof installed as I see it.
Larry)))))))))))
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Countersink tribulations ... |
I've been having problems properly using the countersink cage. I think I might
have just trashed one my HS spars. It seems I manage to move the cutter and
elongate the hole that Im cutting. Ideally I would use the drill press for
cutting countersinks but that's not always possible (i.e. spar flanges that
aren't perpendicular to the spar web.) Do you guys know of any techniques that
might help out with this problem?
If your curious to see my botched up spar I've got pictures on the web here:
http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/viewtopic.php?t=335
Any hints you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations ... |
What made you decide to machine countersinking your HS spar?! Yikes!
Dimple it. Any aluminum .040" or thinner may be dimple countersunk.
Anything .032" or thicker may be machine countersunk. My preference is
always to dimple if possible rather than machine countersink.
In the future, you need to provide something for the pilot of the
countersink cutter to center itself in as it pushes through the work. For
example, clamp a piece of 1/8" thick aluminum with a #40 pilot hole behind
the work. Just one method.
But usually (with exceptions), if you're machine countersinking, the work
should be thick enough that it won't matter.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org>
Subject: RV-List: Countersink tribulations ...
>
> I've been having problems properly using the countersink cage. I think I
might
> have just trashed one my HS spars. It seems I manage to move the cutter
and
> elongate the hole that Im cutting. Ideally I would use the drill press for
> cutting countersinks but that's not always possible (i.e. spar flanges
that
> aren't perpendicular to the spar web.) Do you guys know of any techniques
that
> might help out with this problem?
>
> If your curious to see my botched up spar I've got pictures on the web
here:
> http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/viewtopic.php?t=335
>
> Any hints you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- John
>
> www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
> www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
Reminds me of a quote:
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
I think a chat with AOPA and/or the EAA might help.
Standing alone we're all targets for this kind of abuse,
but working together, we can make things more fair.
Good luck!
Mickey
Ronnie Brown wrote:
>
> Folks in the RV community might want to try to head this off in CA - and the
rest of us need to do the same around the country. (It seems the rest of the country
likes to copy the Left Coast tax and spend crowd)!!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Len Johnson
> To: Canards(at)tnstaafl.net ; canard-aviators(at)yahoogroups.com ; cozy_builders(at)canard.com
> Subject: [Canards] Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
>
>
> Some of you might remember my tussle with the O.C. CA Tax Assessor in 2003. They
wanted to assess my plans-made, homebuilt airplane at $250,000! They agreed
to reassess it at $37,400 (35K plus sales tax) after presenting an appraisal
performed by Dick Ruttan showing that as the actual value. Well, they just changed
their minds. Given that they know far more about fiberglass canard aircraft
than anyone else in the country including Dick Ruttan, they have just reassessed
it for 2005 at over $140,000. This despite knowing it was in a hard landing,
after seeing proof of an insurance claim, and being told that it is still
disassembled in my hangar as it has been for more than a year.
>
>
> The assessment goes like this: they figure the materials at $40,000 (today's
market- never mind it was plans built over years). Figuring the time spent building
it, they are assessing the value of all the labor for the time it took to
build, for a total of a little over $90,000 in labor costs. They are supporting
this estimate with the blurb on the official Cozy website on the time it takes
to build, while ignoring the blurb on the cost of materials ($14,000). Then,
they add sales tax to the total. This is called cost-based assessment. They
completely ignore their previous assessment; Dick's appraisal; the damage history;
and that the plane is not even flying. If they pull this off, you can guarantee
it will spread through the rest of California like wildfire, and anyone
with a productive hobby will all have to flee the state, along with the businesses
(mine included- on top of the 65% estimate I just got on my Workmen's
Comp Insurance, I've got one foot in Arizona already
. !
> Arizona charges a flat $10 a year for experimentals).
>
>
> The worst part is, it takes 12-18 months to get a hearing, and you have to pay
the assessment in the meantime. They did this a few weeks ago, but waited until
today (Jan 5) to spring it on me, so I'd be legally bound to the 2005 tax
year. The woman on the phone told me so- can you believe that? When I told her
I'd fight it, she threatened to reassess back to 2003 as well. Isn't that sort
of thing subject to some kind of criminal penalties? Don't they call that extortion?
>
>
> Anyway, I know of no other experimental anywhere in the country that has been
assessed this way. I know of no other 4 place canard (cozy or aerocanard) that
is worth anywhere near this, of that has been assessed for taxes at even half
this much. This is close to a 4 fold increase. It makes you wonder- do these
folks have any clue what this looks like? 250K to 37K to 140K? Is anyone going
to believe them, given they can't give a single corroborating example anywhere
in the entire country for any of this, and you guys can contribute hundreds?
>
>
> Help me out here, guys. I need some ammunition. We desperately need to get government
at all levels involved to nip this in the bud, or California is going
to put experimental aircraft dead in their sites.
>
>
> -- Len
>
>
> Canards mailing list
> Canards(at)tnstaafl.net
> http://mail.tnstaafl.net/mailman/listinfo/canards_tnstaafl.net
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations ... |
John, you are not the first by any means. Apparently once you eat away most
of the metal, the pilot on the end of the countersink begins to carve into
the very thin edge of the cut hole (the bottom of the hole) making the
elongated hole. I found that if I backed up the metal being counter sunk
with another sheet with a hole to retain the pilot in place, I had no more
problems. Others will probably have other suggestions.
I knew one person who ruined the two skins for the Horz Stab and then gave
up on his RV project even after tips were given on how to avoid such
elongated holes - I think it simply destroyed his confidence given what
appears to be a "simple" thing to do. {:>)
Hope this helps
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
giving up on his RV project
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org>
Subject: RV-List: Countersink tribulations ...
>
> I've been having problems properly using the countersink cage. I think I
might
> have just trashed one my HS spars. It seems I manage to move the cutter
and
> elongate the hole that Im cutting. Ideally I would use the drill press for
> cutting countersinks but that's not always possible (i.e. spar flanges
that
> aren't perpendicular to the spar web.) Do you guys know of any techniques
that
> might help out with this problem?
>
> If your curious to see my botched up spar I've got pictures on the web
here:
> http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/viewtopic.php?t=335
>
> Any hints you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- John
>
> www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
> www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations ... |
> What made you decide to machine countersinking your HS spar?! Yikes!
> Dimple it. Any aluminum .040" or thinner may be dimple countersunk.
> Anything .032" or thicker may be machine countersunk. My preference is
> always to dimple if possible rather than machine countersink.
Because in the RV-9 the instructions specifically call out for those spars to be
machine countersunk as the material is too thick to dimple. I agree about always
dimpling when possible. I dont like to countersink at all.
>
> For example, clamp a piece of 1/8" thick aluminum with a #40 pilot hole
behind
> the work.
Great idea!!
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Reeves <williamdanielreeves(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations ... |
Drill and cleco your part to a piece of wood. The pilot on the countersink bit
will then have more material as a guide to keep it centered in the hole.
For flanges that need to be countersunk, create a small jig out of 1/8" aluminum
bar stock. Drill a couple of #40 and #30 holes in the jig that will be used
for the same purpose as the wood above. Then cleco the jig to the back side
of the flange and countersink away.
Dan
RV-7A - Fuselage
John Spicer wrote:
I've been having problems properly using the countersink cage. I think I might
have just trashed one my HS spars. It seems I manage to move the cutter and
elongate the hole that Im cutting. Ideally I would use the drill press for
cutting countersinks but that's not always possible (i.e. spar flanges that
aren't perpendicular to the spar web.) Do you guys know of any techniques that
might help out with this problem?
If your curious to see my botched up spar I've got pictures on the web here:
http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/viewtopic.php?t=335
Any hints you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: Countersink tribulations |
I like to use my low speed cordless drill for machine countersinking. The
low speed gives much better control and is less likely to cause the hole
elongation.
IMHO.
As Dan said - dimple where you can.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
> Hmm killing the cats probably wouldnt be such a good idea. It would probably
end
> up in divorce if you know that I mean. Wait, that would mean more $$ for
> building ....... :)
>
You've obviously never been divorced!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
Have you considered registering this plane in another state? Might help
with liability too if registered to a Nevada Corp or other entity in another
state.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Ronnie Brown
Date: 01/05/05 17:59:28
Subject: RV-List: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
Folks in the RV community might want to try to head this off in CA - and the
rest of us need to do the same around the country. (It seems the rest of the
country likes to copy the Left Coast tax and spend crowd)!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Len Johnson
cozy_builders(at)canard.com
Subject: [Canards] Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
Some of you might remember my tussle with the O.C. CA Tax Assessor in 2003.
They wanted to assess my plans-made, homebuilt airplane at $250,000! They
agreed to reassess it at $37,400 (35K plus sales tax) after presenting an
appraisal performed by Dick Ruttan showing that as the actual value. Well,
they just changed their minds. Given that they know far more about
fiberglass canard aircraft than anyone else in the country including Dick
Ruttan, they have just reassessed it for 2005 at over $140,000. This despite
knowing it was in a hard landing, after seeing proof of an insurance claim,
and being told that it is still disassembled in my hangar as it has been for
more than a year.
The assessment goes like this: they figure the materials at $40,000 (today's
market- never mind it was plans built over years). Figuring the time spent
building it, they are assessing the value of all the labor for the time it
took to build, for a total of a little over $90,000 in labor costs. They are
supporting this estimate with the blurb on the official Cozy website on the
time it takes to build, while ignoring the blurb on the cost of materials
($14,000). Then, they add sales tax to the total. This is called cost-based
assessment. They completely ignore their previous assessment; Dick's
appraisal; the damage history; and that the plane is not even flying. If
they pull this off, you can guarantee it will spread through the rest of
California like wildfire, and anyone with a productive hobby will all have
to flee the state, along with the businesses (mine included- on top of the
65% estimate I just got on my Workmen's Comp Insurance, I've got one foot in
Arizona already. !
Arizona charges a flat $10 a year for experimentals).
The worst part is, it takes 12-18 months to get a hearing, and you have to
pay the assessment in the meantime. They did this a few weeks ago, but
waited until today (Jan 5) to spring it on me, so I'd be legally bound to
the 2005 tax year. The woman on the phone told me so- can you believe that?
When I told her I'd fight it, she threatened to reassess back to 2003 as
well. Isn't that sort of thing subject to some kind of criminal penalties?
Don't they call that extortion?
Anyway, I know of no other experimental anywhere in the country that has
been assessed this way. I know of no other 4 place canard (cozy or
aerocanard) that is worth anywhere near this, of that has been assessed for
taxes at even half this much. This is close to a 4 fold increase. It makes
you wonder- do these folks have any clue what this looks like? 250K to 37K
to 140K? Is anyone going to believe them, given they can't give a single
corroborating example anywhere in the entire country for any of this, and
you guys can contribute hundreds?
Help me out here, guys. I need some ammunition. We desperately need to get
government at all levels involved to nip this in the bud, or California is
going to put experimental aircraft dead in their sites.
-- Len
Canards mailing list
Canards(at)tnstaafl.net
http://mail.tnstaafl.net/mailman/listinfo/canards_tnstaafl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations |
Subject: Countersink tribulations ...From: John Spicer (spike(at)spikesplace.org)Date:
Thu Jan 06 - 7:47 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink tribulations.. |
John,
Many good tips have already been shared. Lots of good advice. Another technique
that works well, especially when machine countersinking a curved surface is
to use a pilotless open countersink. These are sometimes sold as deburring cutters.
Just make sure it is of the 100 degree variety. I use one that is designed
to countersink composite material and it has had no problem with aluminum
sheet after years and years of service. It takes a bit of practice at first because
after all, without a cage, you control the perpendicularity and depth.
You'll quickly get the hang of it. This type of cutter virtually eliminates any
chance of wallowing out the pilot hole.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finished"
I've been having problems properly using the countersink cage. I think I might
have just trashed one my HS spars. It seems I manage to move the cutter and
elongate the hole that Im cutting. Ideally I would use the drill press for
cutting countersinks but that's not always possible (i.e. spar flanges that
aren't perpendicular to the spar web.) Do you guys know of any techniques that
might help out with this problem?
Any hints you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
-- John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
vansairforce
My buddy Paul Drexler has been shooting a lot of video lately of the planes
and pilots in my EAA chapter and I got a chance to be a subject that past
weekend...
http://www.rv8a.com/videos/index.htm
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - Colorado
www.rv8a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
Does anyone on the list have operational experience with the XCOMVHF760
tranceiver? It appears to do everything that the SL40 does, and more.
Not only can it monitor the standby frequency but it can tune VOR freqs
as well. When I'm going cross country I often would like to listen to
an ASOS or AWOS on a VOR station. Cost seems to be competitive, but does
it really work, and work well?
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clark, Thomas M UTPWR" <Tom.Clark(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
Mid-AtlRVwing(at)yahoogroups.com, rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com,
BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
Groups,
I have had a bunch of questions about my modified RV-8 Fastback which was
completed mid. last year. I now have a web site that should answer many of
the questions about this modification. Try the link below.
Thanks,
Tom RV8 Fastback, N525TC, 75 hours
http://members.cox.net/rv8fastback
Tom Clark
860-727-2287 Office
860-604-5826 Cell
860-998-9811 Fax
e-mail: tom.clark(at)utcfuelcells.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
Mike,
Thanks for the reply.
Not sure how the RV-9 cowl compares with the RV-6. Did you specify a
fuel injected O-320 when you ordered your cowl or the FAB? Do you know
the nomenclature of the FAB you got?
Charlie
--------------------------------------------
> From: "Mike Robertson"
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem
>
>
> Charlie,
>
> We installed the same engine on our RV-9A using the fab box that came with
> the firewall forward kit and it fit the -9 cowl without modification. It
> even lined up with the air inlet on the scope perfectly.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
> >From: Charlie Brame
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: RV-List
> >Subject: RV-List: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem
> >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:58:43 -0600
> >
> >
> >I am finishing an RV-6A with an 0-320 engine fitted with an Air Flow
> >Performance Fuel injection. When I tried to mate the lower cowl air
> >scoop to the lower cowl, it would not fit over Van's standard 0-320 FAB.
> >The AFP throttle body sits almost exactly one inch lower than a Lycoming
> >carb. Van's solution is that I need an 0-360 air scoop, with the caveat
> >that "if that doesn't work, I may have to switch to a FAB 360 AP air
> >box." The 0-360 air scoop sells for $60 plus shipping, the FAB 360 AP
> >air box costs $120 plus shipping.
> >
> >Surely I'm not the only one out there with this set up, but Van's seemed
> >unsure as how I should correct it. Is there anybody else out there with
> >an 0-320 and a AFP Fuel Injection? What airscoop/FAB did you use to
> >solve the problem? If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
> >scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
> >
> >Charlie Brame
> >RV-6A N11CB
> >San Antonio
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Just wondering if anyone would have the article on rivet annealing from the
April 1993 issue of RVator.
Many thanks
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
> 2) can anyone out there tell me why a plenum should be any more efficient
> than well sealed baffles, (no, my cowl does not bulge out in flight).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If y'all are bored by loooooooooooooong dissertations, ya best delete
now................
First of all let's establish that I am an industrial electrician and unversed
in the area of Lycoming thermodynamics with no carefully measured and
documented data, just somewhat cognizant of the physics involved here, and FWIW
I
"have" built and flown an RV (yeehaw!)- my theories mayhaps blaspheme
conventional wisdom, but this is experimental territory and what the ____...
When I began looking at cooling options (standard baffles vs. plenum) I saw
lots of plenums (pleni?) going up out there. Fad? Maybe. I kept coming back
to- Q: What the heck is the air supposed to be doing here, anyway? A: Flow
through the cylinder fins and carry radiated heat out the air outlet on the
bottom of the cowl. For a given airspeed, only "X" amount of atmosphere can get
into them little holes next to the spinner, subject to the amount of resistance
encountered by the stuff it runs into afterwards (cylinder fins, baffles,
pushrod tubes, exhaust & intake tubes, engine mount, oil cooler, cabin heat
provisions, wires yadayadayada...) resulting in a differential pressure at the
outlet at some point higher (hopefully) than ambient air.
Take a look at the actual airflow through a typical RV cowling. Air is
shoved through them little bitty holes at awesome velocity (I'm guessing maybe
10-20% above IAS due to venturi effect?) and then is expected to expand in about
6
or 8 inches to the _relatively_ huge cross-sectional area in front of the
front 2 cylinders. Awesome deceleration, no? This means that within the
confines of the shape of Vans cowling, the air enters, then expands to the main
"choke" point (above the front cylinders, defined by the clearance between the
cylinders and the cowling) then turns into slow moving mush as it sloppily spews
all over the rear of the air chamber behind the front cylinders. I've heard
many times here on the list about folks having to put a dam in front of #1
'cause #3 was suffering mightily. Pressure or velocity? Seems like #1 gets all
of
both, #3, little of either. Let's see...
Yeah, I've heard the "converting velocity into pressure" stuff, but what good
is pressure if it means the air is hanging out for a while above the
cylinders, picking up heat before crawling through the cylinder fins? Parlay the
difference between more air atoms individually absorbing more heat energy at low
velocity (higher pressure) vs. less atoms absorbing less energy, but at a much
higher volume (higher velocity). Here's an interesting possibility: If the
velocity is lower and the air atoms absorb more heat (get fat&happy), then the
temperature differential between above the cylinders and below them is greater
(they grabbed more heat, remember?), resulting in higher differential
pressure due to expansion of the air below the cylinders and less differential
with
the ambient air that this stuff has to contend with at the cowl exit (ouch- my
brain cell is on fire!) resulting is less exit airflow? So is higher velocity
more efficient than converting all that velocity into pressure? Don't ask
me- I'm just a dumb 'lectrician- put yer Micky-mouse ears on and decide fer
yerseff........
And that brings up the problem I sought to address: Look at the cross section
of the cowling from above cylinders 1&2, aft to the rear baffle. It goes
from maybe 1-1/2" over the front cyls to 5 or 6 inches at the back! Look at all
that useless, stagnant air aft of the front cylinders swirling around over the
crankcase and piled up against the rear baffles. We're talking major
deceleration here, and I speculate there is mucho air that could be removing heat
that
is just boiling around, wasting energy but picking up heat. Where do we
really NEED this precious air to go? We need to stuff it down between the front
and rear cylinders, past the rear of 3&4, to the oil cooler and cabin heat muff.
So here's the theory: maintain as constant a velocity from the inlets,
through the engine and out the exit as smoothly as possible. After entering the
cowl and initially expanding, some air departs the airflow by passing down the
front of cyls 1&2, but not much. The remainder must squeeze past the front
cylinders, then cool the rears, supply the oil cooler and cabin heat muff, and
this stuff is moving a LOT slower than 180 mph! (again, IMHO) How to best
utilize this available air?
My "opinion" is that most plenums contain and control the airflow better by
directing the available air more efficiently than a standard cowling, mainly by
reducing the amount of stagnant air above the engine. Most installations I
looked at were basically the standard baffle kit with a "roof" extending from
one side to the other. This approach effectively reduces the total VOLUME of
air above the engine, particularly at the rear. Most folks report good
results, others not so good. (or as my daughter would chastise me, "well"!) I
theorized that the volume toward the rear must be reduced to maintain higher
velocity, combined with containing airflow only where it is needed- across and
down
through the cylinder fins as opposed to swirling around above the crankcase.
If you look at the cooling system on Jabiru engines, they simply have a
fiberglas "scoop" extending from the inlet and containing the airflow aft to the
cylinders and nothing but the cylinders. Works for them! Keeps the air moving
only where it needs to go, not bouncing around inside the cowling.
In my installation, I made a separate plenum above each pair of cylinders,
eliminating the stagnant air above the crankcase entirely, and forcing the
incoming air to only go where it is needed. After 140+ hours of use, winter and
summer here in hot, humid Tennessee, it seems to be working, even though there
is significant "leakage" from sloppy fabrication. As mentioned earlier, my
engine ain't makin 200+ ponies, but it's doing pretty darn well at 150!
This was understandably a real "experiment", but so far, it seems to have
worked out fairly well. I'm offering this to the list as a rough data point or
just "thought food". I'd be happy to debate the various merits of this
approach with anyone that knows a lot more about this stuff than I do!
(((((The one thing I liked about the plenum, and the reason I built one, is
being able to run the engine with the cowling off without concerns about
lack of cooling or needing to build a cooling shroud/hood.
As full of shiznyt as I am, I MUST question this- I firmly believe that with
the cowl off on a plenumed (sp?) engine, that there is almost NO airflow
through the engine- I have seen no factual evidence of this, but find it very
difficult to believe that there is any kind of significant airflow provided by
the
extreme root of most prop blades and I would suspect that a plenum would
PREVENT any airflow provided by propwash from even washing over an uncowled engine,
and also reduce cooling provided by convection. The highest CHTs I have ever
seen on 51PW were when waiting in the que at OSH for departure last summer-
after about 25 minutes of taxiing/sitting' one cylinder got up to 435 just
before blast-off. I'd waited that long, so what the hell- shoved in the black
knob and I'm sitting here now...
To REALLY stick my neck out (chop away- this is true BLASPHEMY) I will
maintain that those that suggest to "point the nose into the wind" after shutdown
are very misguided- the heat of a cooling engine will convect air around the
cylinders to RISE- therefore, since the cowl outlet is a whole bunch lower than
the inlet, it makes more sense to point the arse-end of the the RV INTO the
wind to take advantage of this free-of-charge cooling source...
That's my damn too long story and unless proven otherly, I'm stickin' with it!
Fingers achin' at The Possumworks in TN
Mark - damn fine RV-6A and damn happy with it, even without any cowl bulges!
Archive if ya want to................... I don't care 'cause my employer now
makes me work FIVE daze a week instead of FOUR!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)(& Long) |
Thanks for the thoughts Mark, not knowing anything about fluid dynamics I
just can't see why a squared off plenum would be any better than standard
baffles. I can understand a streamlined plenum like the Jabiru (and others)
reducing turbulence and improving cooling efficiency but not just putting a
cover over the standard baffles.
Seems to me the cooling depends mostly on the airflow created by the
pressure differential above/below the cylinders. I can't see how reducing
the volume above the cylinders with a box type plenum will change that
pressure (anyone measured that).
Standing by to be educated!
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7a wings
------------------
The Question!
> 2) can anyone out there tell me why a plenum should be any more efficient
> than well sealed baffles, (no, my cowl does not bulge out in flight).
-------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If y'all are bored by loooooooooooooong dissertations, ya best delete
now................
First of all let's establish that I am an industrial electrician and
unversed
in the area of Lycoming thermodynamics with no carefully measured and
documented data, just somewhat cognizant of the physics involved here, and
FWIW I
"have" built and flown an RV (yeehaw!)- my theories mayhaps blaspheme
conventional wisdom, but this is experimental territory and what the ____...
When I began looking at cooling options (standard baffles vs. plenum) I saw
lots of plenums (pleni?) going up out there. Fad? Maybe. I kept coming
back
to- Q: What the heck is the air supposed to be doing here, anyway? A: Flow
through the cylinder fins and carry radiated heat out the air outlet on the
bottom of the cowl. For a given airspeed, only "X" amount of atmosphere can
get
into them little holes next to the spinner, subject to the amount of
resistance
encountered by the stuff it runs into afterwards (cylinder fins, baffles,
pushrod tubes, exhaust & intake tubes, engine mount, oil cooler, cabin heat
provisions, wires yadayadayada...) resulting in a differential pressure at
the
outlet at some point higher (hopefully) than ambient air.
Take a look at the actual airflow through a typical RV cowling. Air is
shoved through them little bitty holes at awesome velocity (I'm guessing
maybe
10-20% above IAS due to venturi effect?) and then is expected to expand in
about 6
or 8 inches to the _relatively_ huge cross-sectional area in front of the
front 2 cylinders. Awesome deceleration, no? This means that within the
confines of the shape of Vans cowling, the air enters, then expands to the
main
"choke" point (above the front cylinders, defined by the clearance between
the
cylinders and the cowling) then turns into slow moving mush as it sloppily
spews
all over the rear of the air chamber behind the front cylinders. I've heard
many times here on the list about folks having to put a dam in front of #1
'cause #3 was suffering mightily. Pressure or velocity? Seems like #1 gets
all of
both, #3, little of either. Let's see...
Yeah, I've heard the "converting velocity into pressure" stuff, but what
good
is pressure if it means the air is hanging out for a while above the
cylinders, picking up heat before crawling through the cylinder fins?
Parlay the
difference between more air atoms individually absorbing more heat energy at
low
velocity (higher pressure) vs. less atoms absorbing less energy, but at a
much
higher volume (higher velocity). Here's an interesting possibility: If the
velocity is lower and the air atoms absorb more heat (get fat&happy), then
the
temperature differential between above the cylinders and below them is
greater
(they grabbed more heat, remember?), resulting in higher differential
pressure due to expansion of the air below the cylinders and less
differential with
the ambient air that this stuff has to contend with at the cowl exit (ouch-
my
brain cell is on fire!) resulting is less exit airflow? So is higher
velocity
more efficient than converting all that velocity into pressure? Don't ask
me- I'm just a dumb 'lectrician- put yer Micky-mouse ears on and decide fer
yerseff........
And that brings up the problem I sought to address: Look at the cross
section
of the cowling from above cylinders 1&2, aft to the rear baffle. It goes
from maybe 1-1/2" over the front cyls to 5 or 6 inches at the back! Look at
all
that useless, stagnant air aft of the front cylinders swirling around over
the
crankcase and piled up against the rear baffles. We're talking major
deceleration here, and I speculate there is mucho air that could be removing
heat that
is just boiling around, wasting energy but picking up heat. Where do we
really NEED this precious air to go? We need to stuff it down between the
front
and rear cylinders, past the rear of 3&4, to the oil cooler and cabin heat
muff.
So here's the theory: maintain as constant a velocity from the inlets,
through the engine and out the exit as smoothly as possible. After entering
the
cowl and initially expanding, some air departs the airflow by passing down
the
front of cyls 1&2, but not much. The remainder must squeeze past the front
cylinders, then cool the rears, supply the oil cooler and cabin heat muff,
and
this stuff is moving a LOT slower than 180 mph! (again, IMHO) How to best
utilize this available air?
My "opinion" is that most plenums contain and control the airflow better by
directing the available air more efficiently than a standard cowling, mainly
by
reducing the amount of stagnant air above the engine. Most installations I
looked at were basically the standard baffle kit with a "roof" extending
from
one side to the other. This approach effectively reduces the total VOLUME
of
air above the engine, particularly at the rear. Most folks report good
results, others not so good. (or as my daughter would chastise me, "well"!)
I
theorized that the volume toward the rear must be reduced to maintain higher
velocity, combined with containing airflow only where it is needed- across
and down
through the cylinder fins as opposed to swirling around above the crankcase.
If you look at the cooling system on Jabiru engines, they simply have a
fiberglas "scoop" extending from the inlet and containing the airflow aft to
the
cylinders and nothing but the cylinders. Works for them! Keeps the air
moving
only where it needs to go, not bouncing around inside the cowling.
In my installation, I made a separate plenum above each pair of cylinders,
eliminating the stagnant air above the crankcase entirely, and forcing the
incoming air to only go where it is needed. After 140+ hours of use, winter
and
summer here in hot, humid Tennessee, it seems to be working, even though
there
is significant "leakage" from sloppy fabrication. As mentioned earlier, my
engine ain't makin 200+ ponies, but it's doing pretty darn well at 150!
This was understandably a real "experiment", but so far, it seems to have
worked out fairly well. I'm offering this to the list as a rough data point
or
just "thought food". I'd be happy to debate the various merits of this
approach with anyone that knows a lot more about this stuff than I do!
(((((The one thing I liked about the plenum, and the reason I built one, is
being able to run the engine with the cowling off without concerns about
lack of cooling or needing to build a cooling shroud/hood.
As full of shiznyt as I am, I MUST question this- I firmly believe that with
the cowl off on a plenumed (sp?) engine, that there is almost NO airflow
through the engine- I have seen no factual evidence of this, but find it
very
difficult to believe that there is any kind of significant airflow provided
by the
extreme root of most prop blades and I would suspect that a plenum would
PREVENT any airflow provided by propwash from even washing over an uncowled
engine,
and also reduce cooling provided by convection. The highest CHTs I have
ever
seen on 51PW were when waiting in the que at OSH for departure last summer-
after about 25 minutes of taxiing/sitting' one cylinder got up to 435 just
before blast-off. I'd waited that long, so what the hell- shoved in the
black
knob and I'm sitting here now...
To REALLY stick my neck out (chop away- this is true BLASPHEMY) I will
maintain that those that suggest to "point the nose into the wind" after
shutdown
are very misguided- the heat of a cooling engine will convect air around the
cylinders to RISE- therefore, since the cowl outlet is a whole bunch lower
than
the inlet, it makes more sense to point the arse-end of the the RV INTO the
wind to take advantage of this free-of-charge cooling source...
That's my damn too long story and unless proven otherly, I'm stickin' with
it!
Fingers achin' at The Possumworks in TN
Mark - damn fine RV-6A and damn happy with it, even without any cowl bulges!
Archive if ya want to................... I don't care 'cause my employer now
makes me work FIVE daze a week instead of FOUR!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)(& Long) |
I'm not sure that reducing the volume above the cylinders is the
advantage. I think being able to seal much better than with baffles is
what makes the difference. With a good plenum (and plenty of RTV) you
can reduce the air leaks inherent with airseal baffles, and force every
little bit of air to do some cooling on it's way through the cowling.
I'm not expert either, but I have a plenum and it works well.
Jeff Point
GMC wrote:
>Seems to me the cooling depends mostly on the airflow created by the
>pressure differential above/below the cylinders. I can't see how reducing
>the volume above the cylinders with a box type plenum will change that
>pressure (anyone measured that).
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)(& Long) |
I agree with Jeff -- reducing the volume of space above the cylinders will
not make a difference except maybe help ensure the same pressures are
present at all places within the space; but, this area is limited to be
small anyway with the top cowling being just an inch or so above the plenum.
As Jeff states, not letting any of the air escape the plenum without doing
its cooling job is more important. And first or second to that is getting
the air into the plenum and then out the cowling bottom, which must be a
lower pressure area, while not allowing the lower pressure to be un-lowered
with leaks around the carburetor intake or other places around the cowling
fitting with the fuselage and/or baffling air inlets.
Indiana Larry
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)(& Long)
>
> I'm not sure that reducing the volume above the cylinders is the
> advantage. I think being able to seal much better than with baffles is
> what makes the difference. With a good plenum (and plenty of RTV) you
> can reduce the air leaks inherent with airseal baffles, and force every
> little bit of air to do some cooling on it's way through the cowling.
>
> I'm not expert either, but I have a plenum and it works well.
>
> Jeff Point
>
> GMC wrote:
>
> >Seems to me the cooling depends mostly on the airflow created by the
> >pressure differential above/below the cylinders. I can't see how reducing
> >the volume above the cylinders with a box type plenum will change that
> >pressure (anyone measured that).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)(& Long) |
> I think being able to seal much better than with baffles is
> what makes the difference. With a good plenum (and plenty of RTV) you
> can reduce the air leaks inherent with airseal baffles, and force every
> little bit of air to do some cooling on it's way through the cowling.
>>>>
Howdy Jeff!
That was one of the things I was most interested in- My plenums have a LOT of
leakage, particularly where it was difficult shaping the pieces along the
base of the cylinders- I originally didn't seal ANY of it since initial flight
testing was in winter, and if it needed better sealing right away, or started
overheating as summer came on, I could easily RTV all the holes up to see how
much it helped. Didn't have to as I really didn't see any significant change in
CHTs at all as ambient temps climbed into the ninetys. All four are
monitored via EIS... Oddly, #1 is coldest & #2 hottest, with maybe 75 deg difference
in climbs, with #2 sometimes hitting 425 where the EIS limit is set. Very
rarely have I had to level off to lower the temps, and my normal regimen is to
get high as fast as possible to cooler air in the summer. They get closer in
cruise, about 30 deg difference with 3&4 in between.
See ya at OSH! Hopefully you won't recognize the plane since it better be
painted by then!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar Usage |
I share free standing 45X48 insulated hangar. BTW Craig,
(hangarmate), I know you monitor this list so feel free to
jump in with any additional comments. The bi-fold door
is 43 wide. Inside, you will find my RV-6A, my C-150 and
his C-172. Both of us have workbenches and assorted storage
shelves on our respective side of the hangar. All three
airplanes fit well enough to walk around with the door closed.
We share the electric bill and supply our own portable
propane tanks if one of us wants to work in cold weather.
If one or the other of us is not present, we do not allow
visitors access to the others space and tools. Believe me
at some small airports, someone is always coming around
looking to borrow something, and sometimes they will be
people you dont recognize. The key is compatability. Its
not exactly like sharing a house but being respectful of the
other persons space is not only the right thing to do, but is paramount if harmony
is to reign so pick your partner(s) wisely!
Rick Galati RV-6A finished, not yet flying
Can anyone provide some thoughts on how many
small aircraft (RV/Cessna/Piper types) might
fit in a 48x48 hangar? I am looking into
purchasing one, and I was trying to plan accordingly.
I know it depends on high wing/low wing, but I am trying
to get a rough idea. I am assuming three planes could
probably fit? Also, any bits of advice that might be
had when renting spaces to others. Appreciate any help
that can be provided (off-line if necessary).
Thanks,ScottQB (Cheater) fuse comingwww.scottsrv7a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
I'm thinking of shortening my Vetterman cross-over exhaust pipes so they terminate
in the vertical plane of the firewall. This would allow me to insert the
bottom cowl's bottom hinge pins without the interference I currently experience
on my RV8A. Is there any down side to this approach? Are there other solutions?
I have positioned my pipes to have 1/2" clearance from the fuselage cooling air
exit ramp and engine mount tubes. They are about 3/8" too low to permit a straight
shot at the hinge pin. There is a 3" space between the inboard end of
the hinge and the pipe but the pins are too stiff to bend much over that short
distance. I presume that reducing the pipe-to-exit-ramp gap, to 1/4" say, is
not an option as the pipe would hit the ramp during engine lurches & the exhaust
would drum against the fuselage. I read in Kent Paser's book that he shortened
the pipe to improve scavenging of the outlet air & it appears that the firewall
plane would be my RV8A's air-flow equivalent of about where his were placed.
So I'm wondering if anyone has had or heard of any other peoples experience
with this type of a solution?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
DAVID REEL wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of shortening my Vetterman cross-over exhaust pipes so
> they terminate in the vertical plane of the firewall. This would
> allow me to insert the bottom cowl's bottom hinge pins without the
> interference I currently experience on my RV8A. Is there any down
> side to this approach? Are there other solutions?
>
> I have positioned my pipes to have 1/2" clearance from the fuselage
> cooling air exit ramp and engine mount tubes. They are about 3/8"
> too low to permit a straight shot at the hinge pin. There is a 3"
> space between the inboard end of the hinge and the pipe but the pins
> are too stiff to bend much over that short distance. I presume that
> reducing the pipe-to-exit-ramp gap, to 1/4" say, is not an option as
> the pipe would hit the ramp during engine lurches & the exhaust would
> drum against the fuselage. I read in Kent Paser's book that he
> shortened the pipe to improve scavenging of the outlet air & it
> appears that the firewall plane would be my RV8A's air-flow
> equivalent of about where his were placed. So I'm wondering if
> anyone has had or heard of any other peoples experience with this
> type of a solution?
Dave, the RV-6 is different from the RV-8A in the firewall area but I
can tell you about my pipe shortening experience. The Vetterman pipes on
my plane originally had a significant turndown just aft of the firewall.
I decided to pick up some free speed (!) by cutting off the turndowns so
the pipes wouldn't protrude below the cowl vent.
Result was considerably more noise in the cabin and the necessity of
periodically removing gray exhaust residue from the belly of the plane.
There was no measurable improvement in airspeed or engine
cooling.......but I have convinced my hangar mate that the plane is
faster! ;-)
In retrospect, I would leave the hacksaw in the toolbox. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 615 hrs.....thank goodness for Lightspeed headsets...)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re-using oil hose fittings |
I have a question about oil hoses. I need to make a longer hose because I'm going
to move my oil cooler to the front baffle. Can I take the fittings off the
old hose and put them on a new hose? Thanks.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
I cut mine, turned my smoke system on, and in about 2 seconds, the
cockpit was full!.
I welded them back on and the problem was solved.
I would NOT cut them.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID REEL
Subject: RV-List: Shortening Exhaust Pipes
I'm thinking of shortening my Vetterman cross-over exhaust pipes so they
terminate in the vertical plane of the firewall. This would allow me to
insert the bottom cowl's bottom hinge pins without the interference I
currently experience on my RV8A. Is there any down side to this
approach? Are there other solutions?
I have positioned my pipes to have 1/2" clearance from the fuselage
cooling air exit ramp and engine mount tubes. They are about 3/8" too
low to permit a straight shot at the hinge pin. There is a 3" space
between the inboard end of the hinge and the pipe but the pins are too
stiff to bend much over that short distance. I presume that reducing
the pipe-to-exit-ramp gap, to 1/4" say, is not an option as the pipe
would hit the ramp during engine lurches & the exhaust would drum
against the fuselage. I read in Kent Paser's book that he shortened the
pipe to improve scavenging of the outlet air & it appears that the
firewall plane would be my RV8A's air-flow equivalent of about where his
were placed. So I'm wondering if anyone has had or heard of any other
peoples experience with this type of a solution?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
Cut the exhaust pipes??? I cut the Vetterman exhaust on my RV6 as Sam
described. Not sure if it's any louder in the cockpit (Lightspeeds) but my buds
tell
me it sounds great from outside :
). Mine are about an inch aft of the
firewall but no longer hang 'out in the breeze' and I know my 6 is a tad faster
than
it was :
). I wipe down the 'exhaust film' from my belly with simple green
about every 10 hours or so.....takes about 1 minute. And, I'd say there's no
increase in the film since my pipes were cut. Yes, I'd do the same on my next
plane. Oh yea, I don't have a smoke system like Mike does......if I did I'd still
leave the pipes short and just wear a gas mask :
)
Another Option: Not sure if your 8 is painted yet or not, but, if you don't
want to shorten the pipes, I recommend REMOVING the lower hinges and installing
a doubler to the fuse where the hinges 'were' with
platenuts/screws/tinnermans or camlocks. Piece of cake removing the cowl this way
and you don't have the
problem of broken hinge eyelets......and I've seen LOTS of eyelets broken in
this area......just ask around.
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OhioValleyRVators/
for the archives
I cut mine, turned my smoke system on, and in about 2 seconds, the
cockpit was full!.
I welded them back on and the problem was solved.
I would NOT cut them.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
I feel your pain having burnt my various fingers/hands more than once.
There is one REALLY Good solution...Use camlocks or skybolts fasteners. No
more burnt/scraped hands, no more cussing, and only about 15 seconds of
work.
Did it on mine and I'll never go back to hinges there or on the top of the
cowl either.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DAVID REEL
Subject: RV-List: Shortening Exhaust Pipes
I'm thinking of shortening my Vetterman cross-over exhaust pipes so they
terminate in the vertical plane of the firewall. This would allow me to
insert the bottom cowl's bottom hinge pins without the interference I
currently experience on my RV8A. Is there any down side to this approach?
Are there other solutions?
I have positioned my pipes to have 1/2" clearance from the fuselage cooling
air exit ramp and engine mount tubes. They are about 3/8" too low to permit
a straight shot at the hinge pin. There is a 3" space between the inboard
end of the hinge and the pipe but the pins are too stiff to bend much over
that short distance. I presume that reducing the pipe-to-exit-ramp gap, to
1/4" say, is not an option as the pipe would hit the ramp during engine
lurches & the exhaust would drum against the fuselage. I read in Kent
Paser's book that he shortened the pipe to improve scavenging of the outlet
air & it appears that the firewall plane would be my RV8A's air-flow
equivalent of about where his were placed. So I'm wondering if anyone has
had or heard of any other peoples experience with this type of a solution?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT! |
Dear Listers,
Service Provider to upgrade to a larger IP subnet. I will be
re-addressing all of the machines on the network including the
Matronics Web Server and Matronics Email Server at that time. Name
Service will be updated at that time as well and most things should
work again pretty quick. There may be some bounced email for a few hours
or even a day or so as the new name-to-ip-address resolutions propagate
into the depths of the Internet.
If you have problems posting a message to one of the Lists or get a
bounced message back, please wait a couple of hours and try sending it
again. Generally, access to the web site should work within 1-hour of
Hopefully the transition will go smoothly and you'll hardly even
notice! :-)
Thanks for your patience!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
Mine are low enough that I can eeek the pins past the exhaust by going over
the top of them. Is that an option on the 8A?
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DAVID REEL [mailto:dreel(at)cox.net]
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:50 PM
> To: rvlist
> Subject: RV-List: Shortening Exhaust Pipes
>
>
> I'm thinking of shortening my Vetterman cross-over exhaust
> pipes so they terminate in the vertical plane of the
> firewall. This would allow me to insert the bottom cowl's
> bottom hinge pins without the interference I currently
> experience on my RV8A. Is there any down side to this
> approach? Are there other solutions?
>
> I have positioned my pipes to have 1/2" clearance from the
> fuselage cooling air exit ramp and engine mount tubes. They
> are about 3/8" too low to permit a straight shot at the hinge
> pin. There is a 3" space between the inboard end of the
> hinge and the pipe but the pins are too stiff to bend much
> over that short distance. I presume that reducing the
> pipe-to-exit-ramp gap, to 1/4" say, is not an option as the
> pipe would hit the ramp during engine lurches & the exhaust
> would drum against the fuselage. I read in Kent Paser's book
> that he shortened the pipe to improve scavenging of the
> outlet air & it appears that the firewall plane would be my
> RV8A's air-flow equivalent of about where his were placed.
> So I'm wondering if anyone has had or heard of any other
> peoples experience with this type of a solution?
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
> ========
> Matronics Forums.
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
MMMM, mmmmm, mmmmm. Wear a gas mask. Yikes.
Well, I cut mine at an angle, matching the angle of the belly. I thought
it looked more streamlined (read: cool) and would decrease drag and the
force of the exhaust gas out of the stacks would push the exhaust away
from the airplane belly.
Right.
I have since welded a set of extensions back on to get the exhaust
further out in the slipstream. The belly of the airplane was WHITE with
exhaust stains with them cut short. Now it is an almost invisible grey
and only on the right side. Which has the longest stacks, by the way. No
noticeable change in noise level, on the ground or in the air. They
sound cool regardless.
Several things to consider: engine exhaust is corrosive. If you want to
see the effects, find one of the older Cessna 310s with the exhaust
exiting at the end of the engine nacelle. Big corrosion problems. There
is a reason they stopped doing it that way and no one else tried it.
If the exhaust is on the bottom of your airplane, how much of it is
getting INSIDE the airplane. Carbon monoxide is not much fun. Gas mask,
eh?
Clean it with Simple Green: look in the archives as to the general
opinion of the stuff, including what the Air Force thinks of it.
I would NOT cut the ends. Vetterman makes one of the best designs on the
market and has it cut the way he does for good reasons. As far as drag,
the cooling air coming out of the engine compartment is pretty draggy
anyway and the cut exhaust stacks is not going to increase your speed
enough, if at all, for you to notice. I gained or lost no airspeed with
the changes.
IMHO, of course. Experimental means you can do what you think is right.
Remember you have to completely remove the exhaust system to get the
extensions welded back on. After you get a new set from Larry. You might
call him and ask how many extensions he has sent out to correct them
being cut too short.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Re-using oil hose fittings |
Scott,
I am going to go against the rest of the listers, and bet that you can't
reuse them. I have tried. The problem you will run into is that you can't get
the rubber out of the gap where the sharp edge is inside the fitting. I
tried all kinds of ways to do it. Ended up getting some new fittings from Van's.
Maybe I would have gotten by with the used ones, but I feel better not
using them after the damage I inflicted on them. The kind of fitting that Van
supplies really doesn't need a mandrel if you are careful. Ask for Van's
instruction sheet when you order the fittings.
I pressure tested the hoses after assembly to 1000 psi using a hydraulic
jack with a pipe thread drilled and tapped into the base. That's a whole other
story! One lister suggested using a grease gun for the pressure source.
Fill the hose with oil so you don't build a bomb!
Let us know how it goes.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July if the weather is good enough!)
In a message dated 1/7/05 4:22:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
svanarts(at)yahoo.com writes:
I have a question about oil hoses. I need to make a longer hose because
I'm going to move my oil cooler to the front baffle. Can I take the fittings
off the old hose and put them on a new hose? Thanks.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Rion Bourgeois" <rion(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
When I first flew my RV-4, I turned the turndowns on my Vetterman 4 by 4
horizontal and towards the center of the fuselage bottom so that they
wouldn't stick out into the slipstream and so I wouldn't have to trim my
cowl. Way too loud and lots of drumming on the floor. I then turned them
45 degrees down and still angled towards the center. Still too loud. Now I
have them pointing straight back and down. May be a little slower, but
much more pleasing on the ears. No appreciable difference as far as odors
go. Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Shortening Exhaust Pipes
>
> MMMM, mmmmm, mmmmm. Wear a gas mask. Yikes.
>
> Well, I cut mine at an angle, matching the angle of the belly. I thought
> it looked more streamlined (read: cool) and would decrease drag and the
> force of the exhaust gas out of the stacks would push the exhaust away
> from the airplane belly.
>
> Right.
>
> I have since welded a set of extensions back on to get the exhaust
> further out in the slipstream. The belly of the airplane was WHITE with
> exhaust stains with them cut short. Now it is an almost invisible grey
> and only on the right side. Which has the longest stacks, by the way. No
> noticeable change in noise level, on the ground or in the air. They
> sound cool regardless.
>
> Several things to consider: engine exhaust is corrosive. If you want to
> see the effects, find one of the older Cessna 310s with the exhaust
> exiting at the end of the engine nacelle. Big corrosion problems. There
> is a reason they stopped doing it that way and no one else tried it.
>
> If the exhaust is on the bottom of your airplane, how much of it is
> getting INSIDE the airplane. Carbon monoxide is not much fun. Gas mask,
> eh?
>
> Clean it with Simple Green: look in the archives as to the general
> opinion of the stuff, including what the Air Force thinks of it.
>
> I would NOT cut the ends. Vetterman makes one of the best designs on the
> market and has it cut the way he does for good reasons. As far as drag,
> the cooling air coming out of the engine compartment is pretty draggy
> anyway and the cut exhaust stacks is not going to increase your speed
> enough, if at all, for you to notice. I gained or lost no airspeed with
> the changes.
>
> IMHO, of course. Experimental means you can do what you think is right.
> Remember you have to completely remove the exhaust system to get the
> extensions welded back on. After you get a new set from Larry. You might
> call him and ask how many extensions he has sent out to correct them
> being cut too short.
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
| Subject: | Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
Mike,
Pretty brave using Simple Green around an aluminum aircraft?
Chuck
Mike wrote
I wipe down the 'exhaust film' from my belly with simple green.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trainnut01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wiring G207 Grip |
All
I'm wiring the switches in my stick grip and do not have my EZ Pilot or my
Icom radio yet. What switch logic is required for the Autopilot Disconnect
switch and what switch logic is required for the frequency change on the radio?
I could do it later but I'm to lazy to take it apart again.
Thanks
Carroll Jernigan
RV7A Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring G207 Grip |
Trainnut01(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> All
> I'm wiring the switches in my stick grip and do not have my EZ Pilot or my
> Icom radio yet. What switch logic is required for the Autopilot Disconnect
> switch and what switch logic is required for the frequency change on the radio?
> I could do it later but I'm to lazy to take it apart again.
> Thanks
> Carroll Jernigan
> RV7A Wiring
EZ-Pilot User and Installation Manual is here:
http://www.trioavionics.com/Manual%20rev%201.9%20for%20PDF.pdf
Pages 35 and 36 will show wiring diagram. Autopilot disconnect is simply
a short to ground.
You will enjoy your EZ-Pilot. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with EZ-Pilot)
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/EZ_Pilot.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Pretty brave using Simple Green around an aluminum aircraft?
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Mike wrote
>
> I wipe down the 'exhaust film' from my belly with simple green.
I use Simple Green, too. Does this mean I'm also pretty brave? :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 aluminum aircraft)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | OT: leather jacket restoration?? |
A friend has given me an old leather flying jacket. The leather is dry &
stiff. Is there a preferred method of restoring the leather? The last
time I worried about treating leather was oiling my baseball glove with
neatsfoot oil as a kid.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring G207 Grip |
Hi,
I've got the Icom IC-A200 radio installation instructions here:
http://www.rv8.ch/files/Icom%20IC-A200%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf
Frequency change is ground to activate. You can also have
a ground to activate "Memory Channel Switch".
Mickey
Trainnut01(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> All
> I'm wiring the switches in my stick grip and do not have my EZ Pilot or my
> Icom radio yet. What switch logic is required for the Autopilot Disconnect
> switch and what switch logic is required for the frequency change on the radio?
> I could do it later but I'm to lazy to take it apart again.
> Thanks
> Carroll Jernigan
> RV7A Wiring
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: leather jacket restoration?? |
Hi Charley,
There are companies that specialize in the repair and restoration of flight
jackets. Might be more expensive then what you had in mind... I donno.
Here is one place, they sell new too:
http://www.uswings.com/repair.asp
You can purchase an accurate duplicate of military flying jackets here as
well:
http://www.flightjacket.com/detail.aspx?ID=3
I've had good luck using "Hyde Food". Since Connolly leather company is no
longer in business it is getting harder to find, but I see it on the web.
There may be others that work, this is the only one I have ever used on my
Jaguars and I like it a lot. If there comes a time I can no longer get Hyde
Food I'll try this:
http://www.leatherique.com/
Good luck!
Dave, RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Simple Green, again. |
There have been corrosion problems identified with using Simple Green on
aluminum. Whether it's a big problem I can't say. Since there are lots of
alternatives that are know to be safe why chance it? I've been using Task2
lately and like it. Haven't tried in on exhaust residue but it's worked
well on just about anything else and seems safe for just about all surfaces.
Not the easiest thing to fine though... I buy it from Aronson-Campbell
Industrial supply in Seattle.
I've always used Stoddard solvent on the plane's belly and greasy areas in
the past. Task is much more environmentally friendly though:
http://www.masterchemical.com/db-docs/press-releases/03-0212_TASK2_Biodeg.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fatter hinge pins |
I used some of the smaller aluminum piano hinge that came with my RV-6A
kit to mount some things under the instrument panel. (Not the big hinge
that is used to hold on the cowling.) It works OK, but the 0.062 hinge
pin is really a bit under-sized. It makes the piano hinge a bit loose.
I found that a 0.075 wire is a bit too big to fit in hinge eyes, so
something in the 0.070" range might do it.
I checked the piano wire at the hardware store and the coat hangers in
my closet, but no luck so far. Does any one know a source for a
slightly thicker hinge pin for these piano hinges?
Thanks,
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Simple Green, again. |
I've heard of this problem before and am curious to read about it. Does
anyone know of any online documentation or information on the issues
with "simple green" and aluminum?
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and email. Building more than
RV's
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Build Log
There have been corrosion problems identified with using Simple Green on
aluminum. Whether it's a big problem I can't say. Since there are lots
of alternatives that are know to be safe why chance it? I've been using
Task2 lately and like it. Haven't tried in on exhaust residue but it's
worked well on just about anything else and seems safe for just about
all surfaces. Not the easiest thing to fine though... I buy it from
Aronson-Campbell Industrial supply in Seattle.
I've always used Stoddard solvent on the plane's belly and greasy areas
in the past. Task is much more environmentally friendly though:
http://www.masterchemical.com/db-docs/press-releases/03-0212_TASK2_Biode
g.pdf
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
The Airforce has prohibited use of Simple Green because of its highly
corrosive interaction with aluminum. As long as you don't get it in cracks
or around rivets (that aren't perfectly sealed by paint), you'll probably be
okay, but that's a tall order. In short, there is no dispute that Simple
Green is highly corrosive to aluminum when residual SG has an opportunity to
hideout in cracks and rivets.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Shortening Exhaust Pipes
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Pretty brave using Simple Green around an aluminum aircraft?
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Mike wrote
>
> I wipe down the 'exhaust film' from my belly with simple green.
I use Simple Green, too. Does this mean I'm also pretty brave? :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 aluminum aircraft)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fatter hinge pins |
Hi Tom,
Check with Small Parts. They are a great resource. Their stuff is
expen$ive, but I'm willing to support a company who gathers up useful,
hard-to-find parts and makes it available in one place...
http://www.smallparts.com/
Good luck!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fatter hinge pins |
Try a Hobby store.
They have all sorts of piano wire.
Or on the net: www.towerhobbies.com
Dave
> [Original Message]
> From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Date: 1/8/2005 4:04:05 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Fatter hinge pins
>
>
> I used some of the smaller aluminum piano hinge that came with my RV-6A
> kit to mount some things under the instrument panel. (Not the big hinge
> that is used to hold on the cowling.) It works OK, but the 0.062 hinge
> pin is really a bit under-sized. It makes the piano hinge a bit loose.
> I found that a 0.075 wire is a bit too big to fit in hinge eyes, so
> something in the 0.070" range might do it.
>
> I checked the piano wire at the hardware store and the coat hangers in
> my closet, but no luck so far. Does any one know a source for a
> slightly thicker hinge pin for these piano hinges?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm wondering why the Dynon pitot tube
has very small holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes through
the outer tube. I was always under the impression that it was important to have
no leaks in the pitot system and now I see that there is a leak "designed"
into this pitot tube. What gives here? And don't they check the pitot system
for leaks during the bi-annual pitot/static/transponder check?
Ron Schreck
Gold Hill NC. RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: Fatter Hinge Pins |
Try Van's Aircraft - they are a company which gathers up aircraft things and
sells them at a reasonable price. Often cheaper than the cheapo places
sell hardware variety junk.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Krueger <pndkrueg(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green, again. |
Am assuming that this thread is referring to household Simple Green.
Company website has an Extreme Simple Green that is used for A/C
cleaning. Info at: http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_prod_ext.php.
Customer service number is 800-228-0709 to find out where you can
purchase it. I have not tried it - but will call them Monday.
Dan Krueger
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
If the head is a heated one, that may be a drain hole to let water out.
When I put the wings back on the Imitutor after repairing it for five
months, I couldn't get the pitot system to hold pressure( from a
blood-pressure cuff handpump). After a couple of futile hours under the
panel disconnecting and plugging lines, I finally heard a faint hissing from
this tiny hole in the bottom of the pitot tube.
A single wrap of electrical tape sealed that, and then the system worked
perfectly.
During the airplane's first assembly before the initial flight, I didn't
encounter this problem; I must have shoved the elastic tubing onto the pitot
head so far that it covered the drain hole, and I was none the wiser.
Scott in VAncouver RV-6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
>
> At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm wondering why the Dynon
> pitot tube has very small holes punched into the aluminum tube where it
> passes through the outer tube. I was always under the impression that it
> was important to have no leaks in the pitot system and now I see that
> there is a leak "designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here? And
> don't they check the pitot system for leaks during the bi-annual
> pitot/static/transponder check?
>
> Ron Schreck
> Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Oil cooler fittings |
I'm having trouble finding the right fittings for my oil cooler. I'm
moving it up in front on the left side. The problem I'm running into is
that the AN-whatever 90 degree fittings I had on the oil cooler
interfere with the lower cowling. If anyone else has their cooler
mounted in this position especially if it's in an RV-4, if you've seen a
good installation, or even if you have opinion on it I'd appreciate
suggestions! Thanks.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
www.rivetbangers.com
Now with email!!
How you want it,
When you want it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi all,
Great weather we are having on the west coast. I have a question for you who
have been there done that.
All control surfaces up to now have you use the bend break to narrow the gap
and relieve the stress in the trailing edges after you have done your work
to the stiffeners and before final assembly. The flaps are all drilled and
apart for all the necessary tasks but the question to anyone that can answer
this is, "Do you bend the top flap skin trailing edge to meet the bottom
skin a little easier"?
The construction manual becomes more or less shorter and to the point as you
progress in the project so it does leave some questions.
Bruce Gray
RV8 Wing's
#81745
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green, again. |
I have mixed feelings about Simple Green. If you go out and find how the
USAF disqualified Simple Green you begin to wonder.
As I remember they weighed a piece of aluminum, placed it in a container of
undiluted, heated Simple green and left it there for something like a month.
Then weighed it. It did discolor the aluminum and there was a very small
weight loss. I believe that the same would happen with tap water under the
same conditions.
The people that really worry, say that it could seep under a lap joint and
make the plane unairworthy via corrosion. How long? Who Really knows?
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: RV-List: Simple Green, again.
>
> There have been corrosion problems identified with using Simple Green on
> aluminum. Whether it's a big problem I can't say. Since there are lots
of
> alternatives that are know to be safe why chance it? I've been using
Task2
> lately and like it. Haven't tried in on exhaust residue but it's worked
> well on just about anything else and seems safe for just about all
surfaces.
> Not the easiest thing to fine though... I buy it from Aronson-Campbell
> Industrial supply in Seattle.
>
> I've always used Stoddard solvent on the plane's belly and greasy areas in
> the past. Task is much more environmentally friendly though:
>
http://www.masterchemical.com/db-docs/press-releases/03-0212_TASK2_Biodeg.pdf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
Hi Ron;
Mine is on my plane at the airport so I can't look at it to confirm, but
I
think you may be looking at the AOA sense holes. I can't recall the exact
location and configuration of these holes, but I know they are there.
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Schreck
Subject: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm wondering why the Dynon pitot
tube has very small holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
through the outer tube. I was always under the impression that it was
important to have no leaks in the pitot system and now I see that there is a
leak "designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here? And don't they
check the pitot system for leaks during the bi-annual
pitot/static/transponder check?
Ron Schreck
Gold Hill NC. RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening Exhaust Pipes |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
That depends.... Checkout "Extreme Simple Green"
http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_prod_ext.php
Dave
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
>Mike,
>
>Pretty brave using Simple Green around an aluminum aircraft?
>
>Chuck
>
>
>Mike wrote
>
>I wipe down the 'exhaust film' from my belly with simple green.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
No, there really are drain holes (at least on the heated version). The
AOA hole is on the front and is not connected to the pitot hole.
Dick Tasker
Todd Bartrim wrote:
>
>Hi Ron;
> Mine is on my plane at the airport so I can't look at it to confirm, but
I
>think you may be looking at the AOA sense holes. I can't recall the exact
>location and configuration of these holes, but I know they are there.
>
>Todd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Schreck
>To: RV List
>Subject: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
>
>
>At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm wondering why the Dynon pitot
>tube has very small holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
>through the outer tube. I was always under the impression that it was
>important to have no leaks in the pitot system and now I see that there is a
>leak "designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here? And don't they
>check the pitot system for leaks during the bi-annual
>pitot/static/transponder check?
>
>Ron Schreck
>Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
Hi Ron,
My Cessna heated pitot also has a small hole in the lower rear region (the
heel) . On testing with low air pressure it vents from the pitot tube
passage. A water drain outlet would be the logical conclusion.
I suppose it could also serve to tune out or flatten out some turbulence
fluctuations. The hole is a very small (about .035) diameter and it's
existence would still allow overall system calibration.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
>
>
> No, there really are drain holes (at least on the heated version). The
> AOA hole is on the front and is not connected to the pitot hole.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Todd Bartrim wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Ron;
>> Mine is on my plane at the airport so I can't look at it to
>> confirm, but I
>>think you may be looking at the AOA sense holes. I can't recall the exact
>>location and configuration of these holes, but I know they are there.
>>
>>Todd
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Schreck
>>To: RV List
>>Subject: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
>>
>>
>>
>>At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm wondering why the Dynon
>>pitot
>>tube has very small holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
>>through the outer tube. I was always under the impression that it was
>>important to have no leaks in the pitot system and now I see that there is
>>a
>>leak "designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here? And don't they
>>check the pitot system for leaks during the bi-annual
>>pitot/static/transponder check?
>>
>>Ron Schreck
>>Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Mitchell <dfm4290(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
I make pitot tubes for a living.
All of the pitot tubes have .030 to .035 dia. holes in
the lower aft side to drain watter.
Dale Mitchell
RV-8A MN wing
--- Ron Schreck wrote:
>
>
> At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm
> wondering why the Dynon pitot tube has very small
> holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
> through the outer tube. I was always under the
> impression that it was important to have no leaks in
> the pitot system and now I see that there is a leak
> "designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here?
> And don't they check the pitot system for leaks
> during the bi-annual pitot/static/transponder check?
>
>
> Ron Schreck
> Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green, again. |
The following statements are from the Simple Green consumers FAQ web
site:
http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php
Many private and commercial aircraft owners and operators have cleaned
their craft with All-Purpose Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green for
many years. However, these products do not have Mil-Prf (military
testing) authority. The testing involves very long (168 hours in one
test) soaking of various metals in the solution and then a corrosion
inspection. If an aircraft owner only wants to use mil-prf approved
products; he will not want to use Simple Green.
Alkaline aqueous solutions are water-based mixtures with pH greater than
8. Most alkaline cleaners range from pH 10 to 14. Simple Green is an
aqueous-based cleaner with a pH of 9.3 to 9.5. Alkaline aqueous solutions
are the most common solutions in aqueous cleaning. Alkaline cleaners
often contain additives to improve cleaning, such as sequestering agents,
emulsifiers and surfactants. Rust inhibitors may be necessary with some
metals, especially aluminum.
Simple Green products have been successfully and safely used on aircraft,
automotive, industrial and consumer aluminum items for over 20 years.
However, caution and common sense must be used: Aluminum is a soft metal
that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base
and alkalinity of Simple Green or Crystal Simple Green can accelerate the
corrosion process. Therefore, contact times of All-Purpose Simple Green
and Crystal Simple Green with unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces
should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10
minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages
to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be
extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and
crevices to remove all Simple Green/Crystal Simple Green residues.
Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple Green
products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to prevent
oxidation.
Jim Hasper - RV-7
Giving new meaning to the term "slow build"
Franklin, TN
>
> I've heard of this problem before and am curious to read about it.
> Does
> anyone know of any online documentation or information on the
> issues
> with "simple green" and aluminum?
>
> -- John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
I did not know that the heated version is available yet??? I spoke to Dynon
and they said their pitot tube was not designed to be air tight. It will not
hold presure but it works just fine, I have found both statements to be true
with 3 different dynon pitot.
John Furey
RV6A O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
--- j1j2h3@jujunoom wrote:
> Sorry, but it IS true. Any time that air is flowing
> through a passage
> way and the cross sectional area of the passage way
> increases or
> decreases there is a pressure loss. The amount of
> the pressure loss is
> dependent upon how abruptly the transition is made,
> but can never be
> eliminated entirely. This can be verified in any
> text book on fluid
> dynamics or handbook on heating and cooling duct
> design.
>
Actually, there are two things at work here...
A fluid moving from a small cross sesectionrea high
velocity flow to a large cross section area low
velocity area describes a classic diffuser.
Theoretically, when the fluid goes from the small area
high velocity region to the large area low velocity
region beBernoulli'saw tells us that the pressure will
INCREASE.
With that said, it is not always easy to build an
efficient diffuser, and an inefficient diffuser will
cause some some pressure loss. I think that one of
the benefits of the plenum cooling system VS the VANS
cooling system is that the plenum is a bit more
efefficients a diffuser.
SkSkylorRV-8 QB Under Construction
Fuselage in progress; Engine on order...
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Oil cooler fittings |
Hi Scott
I have cooler on front left side 6A and had trouble with fittings and
getting the oil lines running where I wanted them.
I called the local Finning Tractor people who have mobile service units for
servicing hydraulics on Cats & front end loaders.
In the end I had them make up all my oil lines. They made up "U" shaped
heavy wall steel fittings to get the oil lines from cooler running in right
aft direction.
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7A wings
I'm having trouble finding the right fittings for my oil cooler. I'm
moving it up in front on the left side. The problem I'm running into is
that the AN-whatever 90 degree fittings I had on the oil cooler
interfere with the lower cowling. If anyone else has their cooler
mounted in this position especially if it's in an RV-4, if you've seen a
good installation, or even if you have opinion on it I'd appreciate
suggestions! Thanks.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
Hi,
I've got the Van's pitot tube - just a bit of aluminum
tubing bent at a 90 degree angle.
Should I drill a little hole near the elbow?
Thanks,
Mickey
Dale Mitchell wrote:
>
> I make pitot tubes for a living.
> All of the pitot tubes have .030 to .035 dia. holes in
> the lower aft side to drain watter.
> Dale Mitchell
> RV-8A MN wing
>
> --- Ron Schreck wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm
>>wondering why the Dynon pitot tube has very small
>>holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
>>through the outer tube. I was always under the
>>impression that it was important to have no leaks in
>>the pitot system and now I see that there is a leak
>>"designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here?
>>And don't they check the pitot system for leaks
>>during the bi-annual pitot/static/transponder check?
>>
>>
>>Ron Schreck
>>Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Bruce
Yes, as a general rule reduce the stress in all skins, otherwise it will be
trying to bow up/down between ribs or stiffeners.
Enduring a few days snow here in Langley!
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7A wings
Hi all,
Great weather we are having on the west coast. I have a question for you who
have been there done that.
All control surfaces up to now have you use the bend break to narrow the gap
and relieve the stress in the trailing edges after you have done your work
to the stiffeners and before final assembly. The flaps are all drilled and
apart for all the necessary tasks but the question to anyone that can answer
this is, "Do you bend the top flap skin trailing edge to meet the bottom
skin a little easier"?
The construction manual becomes more or less shorter and to the point as you
progress in the project so it does leave some questions.
Bruce Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks. I am off and running again.
Bruce
>From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: FL-801PP-R/L
>Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:04:11 -0800
>
>
>Hi Bruce
>
>Yes, as a general rule reduce the stress in all skins, otherwise it will be
>trying to bow up/down between ribs or stiffeners.
>Enduring a few days snow here in Langley!
>
>George in Langley BC
>6A flying
>7A wings
>
>
>Hi all,
>Great weather we are having on the west coast. I have a question for you
>who
>have been there done that.
>All control surfaces up to now have you use the bend break to narrow the
>gap
>and relieve the stress in the trailing edges after you have done your work
>to the stiffeners and before final assembly. The flaps are all drilled and
>apart for all the necessary tasks but the question to anyone that can
>answer
>this is, "Do you bend the top flap skin trailing edge to meet the bottom
>skin a little easier"?
>The construction manual becomes more or less shorter and to the point as
>you
>progress in the project so it does leave some questions.
>
>Bruce Gray
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Gauge VS PTT |
I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I noticed that the
indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT switch.
When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value. Cool, eh? Is
this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a self
test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine passes the self
test. Has anyone else seen this?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 53.2 hours
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Looking for a Lycoming starter ring # 74414
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Baldwin" <n728p(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Please unsubscribe |
Matt,
I have been on the RV list for several years and have found it to be very
enjoyable and very helpfull. During this time I have built , finished, and
flown our RV 6.I find I don't have the time I used to have to spend on line,
so I would like to unsubscribe from your list.
Thanks for all of the help you and everyone on the list have provided.
Regards,
Scott Baldwin
RV6 N728P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
In a message dated 01/09/2005 6:33:20 AM Central Standard Time,
j1j2h3(at)juno.com writes:
The ideal plenum would maintain a constant cross-sectional area from the
inlet, through the spaces around the cylinders, and back through the
cowl toward the rear of the plane. It would minimize the number of turns
and make any necessary turns as smooth and of as large a radius as
possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yo Jim - WASSUP!
Kinda like the meticulously engineered intake and exhaust systems honed to
the nth degree by engine gurus since Henry made an "A". My thinking exactly-
the challenge is all those nasty obstacles in the way, i.e. cylinders, pushrod
tubes etc. But then, even the intake/exhaust gurus run into a valve along the
way! 8-)
Jim Hasper - RV-7
Giving new meaning to the term "slow build" (See - I KNEW I shouldn't
have started this. Another evening spent punching keys instead of
pounding rivets)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Baloney- "I" started this, and if I can make the next chapter meet we'll just
duke it out!
Mark 8-) ps- 51PW is at the painters- Spent 3 hours usurping all final
assembly effort!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
Yo list-
Pulled my pants off this morning and my left wheel hub had some pretty
impressive crusty white stuff all around the outside half- (no, antibiotics didn't
help) -definate extreme corrosion- not over the whole surface, but sporadically
here and there over the entire surface like there was a lot of little "holes"
in the paint and the thing was sitting in a salt bath for a couple of years-
some of it had formed little clumps maybe 1/8" high! Yucchhh! Not seen on
the other three halves and no, I haven't been taxiing down Michigan Ave lately-
Anyone else seen this? Hazard to small children, mutated acorns or hard
landings? Defeckt?
I got fotoz if interested...
From The PossumWorks in TN (yeehah!)
Mark N51PW, -6A, 150 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit |
My RV6 kit came with the Standard Flat-Top Wingtips but I would like to
incorporate enclosed flush mount strobe and position lights like the newer
Sheared Wing Tips have. The Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit that Van's offers in
the Accessories Catalog looks like a possible solution.
Comments/suggestions from any one who has installed the Airtech lens kit
would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
JD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Gauge VS PTT |
Larry, when I called EI about the same indications, they told me there was
a newer conversion module that did not have this problem. Give them a call.
You likely have the same issue. EI is No. 1 in my book.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Gauge VS PTT
>
> I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I noticed that
> the
> indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT switch.
> When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value. Cool, eh?
> Is
> this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a self
> test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine passes the
> self
> test. Has anyone else seen this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hub corrosion |
The wheel halves are magnesium, and therefore very prone to salt corrosion.
When my 6 was force-landed on a beach, I hosed everything down with
freshwater and then followed with a spray of ACF50.
A couple of months later, when I got around to removing the wheels for
inspection, the inner halves under the brake discs were completely eaten
away; I don't know how the wheels stayed together.
Luckily, Dresser or is it Desser? sells the individual halves.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Hub corrosion
>
> Yo list-
>
> Pulled my pants off this morning and my left wheel hub had some pretty
> impressive crusty white stuff all around the outside half- (no,
> antibiotics didn't
> help) -definate extreme corrosion- not over the whole surface, but
> sporadically
> here and there over the entire surface like there was a lot of little
> "holes"
> in the paint and the thing was sitting in a salt bath for a couple of
> years-
> some of it had formed little clumps maybe 1/8" high! Yucchhh! Not seen
> on
> the other three halves and no, I haven't been taxiing down Michigan Ave
> lately-
> Anyone else seen this? Hazard to small children, mutated acorns or hard
> landings? Defeckt?
>
> I got fotoz if interested...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN (yeehah!)
> Mark N51PW, -6A, 150 hours
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <edbundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Gauge VS PTT |
Interesting. I have an EI engine monitor, and when I key the PTT the red
warning LED illuminates for the CHT and EGT windows and the numeric readings
change. Everything goes back to normal when I release the PTT. This has
been going on since I first flew 7 years ago. Someone opined that putting a
choke on the feed wires might help. I haven't been that bothered by it to
do anything, but I'd be interested to know if/how you fix it.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, Idaho
RV6A 600+ hours
> I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I
> noticed that the
> indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT switch.
> When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value.
> Cool, eh? Is
> this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a self
> test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine
> passes the self
> test. Has anyone else seen this?
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
Sure.
>I got fotoz if interested...
--
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web & email. Building more than
RV's
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Build Log
--
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hub corrosion |
In a message dated 01/09/2005 9:01:52 PM Central Standard Time,
spike(at)spikesplace.org writes:
Sure.
>>>
Here ya go- nasty, eh?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak |
Hi Mickey,
Probably not. My 'guess' is that without the heater, ice blockage of a
drilled Van's pitot tube passage might take place well forward of the area
at the "elbow" of the pitot tube.
Drilling a hole there would likely require some level of re-calibration if
the driven instruments .
I am hopeful that good piloting and decision making skills would preclude
you getting that far into such conditions as to test such a drilled pitot
tube.{[;-)
Fly safe,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Pitot Tube Leak
>
> Hi,
>
> I've got the Van's pitot tube - just a bit of aluminum
> tubing bent at a 90 degree angle.
>
> Should I drill a little hole near the elbow?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> Dale Mitchell wrote:
>>
>> I make pitot tubes for a living.
>> All of the pitot tubes have .030 to .035 dia. holes in
>> the lower aft side to drain watter.
>> Dale Mitchell
>> RV-8A MN wing
>>
>> --- Ron Schreck wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At the risk of showing my total ignorance I'm
>>>wondering why the Dynon pitot tube has very small
>>>holes punched into the aluminum tube where it passes
>>>through the outer tube. I was always under the
>>>impression that it was important to have no leaks in
>>>the pitot system and now I see that there is a leak
>>>"designed" into this pitot tube. What gives here?
>>>And don't they check the pitot system for leaks
>>>during the bi-annual pitot/static/transponder check?
>>>
>>>
>>>Ron Schreck
>>>Gold Hill NC. RV-8
>>>
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 Wiring
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Wheel Pant Mounting Brackets |
Listers,
I hear of a lot of these things failing over time, and wanted to put on the
aftermarket stainless steel versions on our RV-7 from the outset. Anyone
remember where I can get a pair?
Thanks.
Mark
www.4sierratango.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green, again. |
Try http//.www.simplegreen.com/pdf/aircraft.pdf
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pant Mounting Brackets |
http://attawayair.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ H.Ivan Haecker ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: H.Ivan Haecker
Subject: Cabin Air Supply and Oil Cooler
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/baremetl@gvtc.com.01.09.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green, again. |
That link didn't work for me, but in case it saves somebody some time, here
is a snippet from their Q&A page:
...
"Aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to
water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green or Crystal Simple
Green can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times of
All-Purpose Simple Green and Crystal Simple Green with unprotected or
unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow -
never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in
smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning
should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out
cracks and crevices to remove all Simple Green/Crystal Simple Green
residues. Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple
Green products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to
prevent oxidation."
(From http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php)
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Gauge VS PTT |
Where is your VHF antenna mounted?
Doug Gray
Ed Bundy wrote:
>
> Interesting. I have an EI engine monitor, and when I key the PTT the red
> warning LED illuminates for the CHT and EGT windows and the numeric readings
> change. Everything goes back to normal when I release the PTT. This has
> been going on since I first flew 7 years ago. Someone opined that putting a
> choke on the feed wires might help. I haven't been that bothered by it to
> do anything, but I'd be interested to know if/how you fix it.
>
> Ed Bundy - Eagle, Idaho
> RV6A 600+ hours
>
>
>
>>I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I
>>noticed that the
>>indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT switch.
>>When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value.
>>Cool, eh? Is
>>this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a self
>>test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine
>>passes the self
>>test. Has anyone else seen this?
>>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm temporarily stuck in Florida. Anyone at ZPH with an RV to show off or
need some help? I left my RV4 home and wish I had it here.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N.B.
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Gauge VS PTT |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Belly, right side, probably less than 18" from the connection and wiring
on the right tank.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Doug Gray said:
>
> Where is your VHF antenna mounted?
> Doug Gray
>
> Ed Bundy wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I have an EI engine monitor, and when I key the PTT the
>> red
>> warning LED illuminates for the CHT and EGT windows and the numeric
>> readings
>> change. Everything goes back to normal when I release the PTT. This
>> has
>> been going on since I first flew 7 years ago. Someone opined that
>> putting a
>> choke on the feed wires might help. I haven't been that bothered by it
>> to
>> do anything, but I'd be interested to know if/how you fix it.
>>
>> Ed Bundy - Eagle, Idaho
>> RV6A 600+ hours
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I
>>>noticed that the
>>>indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT
>>> switch.
>>>When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value.
>>>Cool, eh? Is
>>>this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a
>>> self
>>>test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine
>>>passes the self
>>>test. Has anyone else seen this?
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | five year RV8 report |
Listers,
I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how time
flies when you're having LOTS of fun!
I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of safety
concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has
failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly
surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well
before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one
to help reduce stress risers.
The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a
mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on the
left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more flexible
solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. So,
I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel
and he thought that a different alloy might be the best option....5150....if
I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so
I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty good
for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit.
The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the
windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil warmup
flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's that
doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the airplane
and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the
startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. So,
anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the fairing,
along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I never
really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the
front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV or
proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks in
there.
Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past year!
Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell ya.
Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel is
getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but I'll
get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with
lots of shopping carts....
And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO
BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, last
year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80.
Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the
other day but I cannot substantiate that claim.
So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of
sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get done
soon enough.
Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV?
Nirvana? Heaven on Earth?
Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-9 Up Elevator Stop |
Hello,
I am mounting my VS and am confused as to if the F-912D elevator stop
should be drilled and bolted to the VS first or the fuselage first.
It might not matter, and the instructions are a bit ambiguous.
Thanks,
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | five year RV8 report - gear bolting |
Brian -
Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was
wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque? After
my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue
then.
Thanks
Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs
Houston
>
>I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how time
>flies when you're having LOTS of fun!
>
>I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of
>safety
>concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has
>failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly
>surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well
>before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one
>to help reduce stress risers.
>
>The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a
>mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on
>the
>left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more flexible
>solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. So,
>I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel
>and he thought that a different alloy might be the best
>option....5150....if
>I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so
>I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty
>good
>for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit.
>
>The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the
>windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil
>warmup
>flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's that
>doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the airplane
>and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the
>startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. So,
>anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the fairing,
>along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I
>never
>really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the
>front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV
>or
>proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks
>in
>there.
>
>Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past
>year!
> Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell ya.
>Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel is
>getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but I'll
>get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with
>lots of shopping carts....
>
>And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO
>BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, last
>year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80.
>Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the
>other day but I cannot substantiate that claim.
>
>So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of
>sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get
>done
>soon enough.
>
>Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV?
>Nirvana? Heaven on Earth?
>
>Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George(at)maxwell.af.mil> |
| Subject: | OT: leather jacket restoration?? |
Charlie -
Try LeatherNew from your favorite tack shop.
Neal
>A friend has given me an old leather flying jacket. The leather is dry &
stiff. Is there a preferred method of restoring the leather? The last
time I worried about treating leather was oiling my baseball glove with
neatsfoot oil as a kid.
Thanks,
Charlie
<
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | five year RV8 report - gear bolting |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard
bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a
socket on them. Maybe it could be done if I remove a couple of those #8
screws in that area. It's be fun reinstalling them -- not!
Do you experienced guys have any other advice?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Bryan Jones said:
>
> Brian -
>
> Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was
> wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque?
> After
> my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue
> then.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs
> Houston
>
>>
>>I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how
>> time
>>flies when you're having LOTS of fun!
>>
>>I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of
>>safety
>>concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has
>>failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not
>> terribly
>>surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well
>>before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next
>> one
>>to help reduce stress risers.
>>
>>The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a
>>mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on
>>the
>>left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more
>> flexible
>>solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually.
>> So,
>>I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel
>>and he thought that a different alloy might be the best
>>option....5150....if
>>I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so
>>I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty
>>good
>>for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit.
>>
>>The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the
>>windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil
>>warmup
>>flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's
>> that
>>doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the
>> airplane
>>and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the
>>startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help.
>> So,
>>anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the
>> fairing,
>>along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I
>>never
>>really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the
>>front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV
>>or
>>proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks
>>in
>>there.
>>
>>Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past
>>year!
>> Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell
>> ya.
>>Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel
>> is
>>getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but
>> I'll
>>get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with
>>lots of shopping carts....
>>
>>And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO
>>BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So,
>> last
>>year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80.
>>Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the
>>other day but I cannot substantiate that claim.
>>
>>So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of
>>sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get
>>done
>>soon enough.
>>
>>Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV?
>>Nirvana? Heaven on Earth?
>>
>>Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane.
>>
>>Brian Denk
>>RV8 N94BD
>>RV10 '51
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3rd Annual, 1300+hr report |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
I just completed my 3rd annual and 1300+hours on the plane. I only had
one item noteworthy.
The airbox, as others have suggested, has been a source of trouble for
me too. I also have suffered from cracked plates and so forth. For now I
have 600 hours on the last fix where I doubled the plate thickness.
Before doubling the plate I was only good for about 300 hours/plate.
Holding for now BUTTTTT, now the filter has rubbed completely through
the bottom of the fiberglass where my filter was half hanging out the
bottom. It had worked completely through the box, a nice circular ring
following the lines of the filter on the fwd half of the box. The good
news is that the fix was much easier than the cracked plate was. Just
throw some new glass on there and be done with it. I have about 2"
separating the box from the cowl air inlet with rubber baffling material
as a buffer, but all that shake, rattle and rollin really takes its toll
I guess.
New tires and brakes all around, including my sissy wheel, new plugs
($1.50 ea auto plugs on dual lightspeed ignition Nice!), fixed some
electrical gremlins where a wire had broke at the pin (Molex connectors
on the passenger stick), couple chaffing items to deal with, intake hose
coupling from intake tube to sump getting heat damage got replaced and
some aluminum cowl tape now will prevent that, All cylinders exactly
77/80. SWEET! No doubt flying several hundred hours a year doesn't hurt.
I fly hard and often.
End of report
Mike
S8 canopy
PS, looks like the new list server upgrades are working cause Im getting
messages from the list now with only a few minutes delay. Good work
Matt. Nice to see the donations getting put to good work:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: five year RV8 report |
I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of safety
concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has
failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly
surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well
before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one
to help reduce stress risers
-----------
Brian: your next one from Van's is gonna be steel, not aluminum. Been there, done
that; new one looks plenty beefy and helps ballast the CG forward ;-)
-Bill B
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Away from home |
Call Sven Sorvic 813-843-1212.
I think he needs help finishing his RV-4.
Finn
PGLong(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>I'm temporarily stuck in Florida. Anyone at ZPH with an RV to show off or
>need some help? I left my RV4 home and wish I had it here.
>
>Pat Long
>PGLong(at)aol.com
>N.B.
>RV4
>Bay City, Michigan
>3CM
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | five year RV8 report - gear bolting |
>
> >I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard
> >bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a
> >socket on them.
>
>Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear
>and
>curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom of
>the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned
>about how you're going to get back out!! :)
>
>Bryan
>
Amen, Brutha Bryan! I think I had back pain and bruised wrists for a week
after getting in there to tighten those !*&#
$ nuts. There's gotta be a
better way. I kludged up a piece of an old box wrench and a socket. Glued
'em together with JB Weld and ground as needed to fit. Still really a major
PITA.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | five year RV8 report - gear bolting |
Brian -
>
>Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was
>wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque? After
>my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue
>then.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs
>Houston
BJ,
I had the same experience. Gear legs got downright squeeky (read: LOOSE)
after about 50 hours. Stuffed myself down in there, cussed, whined, b*tched
and moaned, and cranked 'em down tight. I applied just shy of gorilla
torque and they haven't budged since. Good thing, cuz I was eyeing the
welder as the final solution.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | five year RV8 report - gear bolting |
>I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them
>is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut that
>I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that
>tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts
>that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
Larry,
Now that you've brought up this painful subject *smack!*, I do recall
modifying the fasteners around the nuts in the weldments. I replaced a
couple of the screws/nuts with some big honkin' pop rivets that I found at a
military surplus store. They look identical to the CS4-4's we all know and
love, but are the same shank size as the screws they replace. I popped them
in there and they allow just barely enough clearance for a ground down
socket to access the nuts.
I know this doesn't really fix your problem but I found it to be the only
way to get it done.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Plenum closure (& CHT) |
Hi All,
The Jim Hasper comment below is a major breakthrough on RV-list engine
cooling thinking.
The "plenum" described is a duct. Actually two sealed constant volume cross
section ducts with smooth turns and large corner radii. One duct on each
side of the engine.
Please add this to the archives.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 01/10/2005 12:07:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: RV-List: Re: Plenum closure (& CHT)
From: j1j2h3(at)juno.com
(Stuff Cut)
The ideal plenum would maintain a constant cross-sectional area from the
inlet, through the spaces around the cylinders, and back through the
cowl toward the rear of the plane. It would minimize the number of turns
and make any necessary turns as smooth and of as large a radius as
possible
Jim Hasper - RV-7
Giving new meaning to the term "slow build" (See - I KNEW I shouldn't
have started this. Another evening spent punching keys instead of
pounding rivets)
Franklin, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Rv folks in Nashville area |
Any folks around Nashville, specifically at Cornelius Fort M88 ? you can
email me your replys. Charlie heathco. cheathco(at)comcast.net Do not
Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | emrath(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Eyeball firewall pass throughs |
I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs.
Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the
nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is
a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment
and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons
in using these things?
I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version
or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent
for Van's cables?
Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through
and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't
crowd other items planned on my firewall?
Marty in Brentwood TN
RV-6A
I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs.
Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the
nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is a
second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment
and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons in
using these things?
I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version
or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent
for Van's cables?
Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through
and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't
crowd other items planned on my firewall?
Marty in Brentwood TN
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball firewall pass throughs |
I'm the one who recently had the retaining nut loosen up on one of my
"one-hole eyeball" fittings. A little foresight and loctite would have
precluded it.
http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041229_loose_ring.jpg
http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041229_loose_ring2.jpg
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Eyeball firewall pass throughs
>
> I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable
pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where
they had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come
apart. There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole
method of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any
other pros or cons in using these things?
> I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum
version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up
sufficent for Van's cables?
> Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass
through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so
I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall?
> Marty in Brentwood TN
> RV-6A
>
> I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable
pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they
had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart.
There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method
of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other
pros or cons in using these things?
> I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum
version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up
sufficent for Van's cables?
> Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass
through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so
I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall?
> Marty in Brentwood TN
> RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit |
JD,
I went thru this same drill, even bought the kit, took it home, read
instructions. After noodling for a couple days, finally decided that the $171
diff
between the new RV7 sheared tips with built in lenses was better for me than
fooling around chopping up my tips , installing the kit, etc. This way, I
*almost* have an RV7a with the tall tail, even... :)
BTW, no shipping involved since I'm next door almost to Van's YMMV.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
RV6a++
In a message dated 1/10/2005 12:07:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
From: "J D Newsum" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-List: Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit
My RV6 kit came with the Standard Flat-Top Wingtips but I would like to
incorporate enclosed flush mount strobe and position lights like the newer
Sheared Wing Tips have. The Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit that Van's offers in
the Accessories Catalog looks like a possible solution.
Comments/suggestions from any one who has installed the Airtech lens kit
would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
JD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit |
Very good choice! Cutting and chopping the old tips for the position lights
was a big pain in the A**!
>
>
>JD,
>
>I went thru this same drill, even bought the kit, took it home, read
>instructions. After noodling for a couple days, finally decided that the
>$171 diff
>between the new RV7 sheared tips with built in lenses was better for me than
>fooling around chopping up my tips , installing the kit, etc. This way, I
>*almost* have an RV7a with the tall tail, even... :)
>
>BTW, no shipping involved since I'm next door almost to Van's YMMV.
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>RV6a++
>
>In a message dated 1/10/2005 12:07:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>From: "J D Newsum" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit
>
>
>My RV6 kit came with the Standard Flat-Top Wingtips but I would like to
>incorporate enclosed flush mount strobe and position lights like the newer
>Sheared Wing Tips have. The Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit that Van's offers in
>the Accessories Catalog looks like a possible solution.
>Comments/suggestions from any one who has installed the Airtech lens kit
>would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance
>JD
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
suggested for ease of removal?
Well,
I'm behind on the digest but....
mine has aluminum sides and top, all hinged together, six wires, could be
reduced to four, to hold the top on, has worked fine for 800 hours.
and Oil Cooler is on firewall, as I have made plenty of money repairing oil
cooler to engine installations.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | battery charging |
AGM batteries have no problem whatsoever with high amperage
charging, as long as you don't get them hot enough to melt the plastic
case. :-) You can charge an AGM at close to it's CCA rating as long as you
limit the voltage to under 15 volts (and watch the temperature if you do
more than one cycle.)
I still stand by my thoughts that one should not take off with a discharged
battery. I can just see myself trying to explain why the semi-charged,
semi-smoking, semi-melting battery in the cockpit bolted next to the hot
firewall in a tightly closed aluminum box caused me to turn off the
electrical system therefore making an emergency NORDO landing.
NO BATTERY SHOULD BE CHARGED AT FULL ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WHILE OPERATING THE
AIRCRAFT. The alternator does not know how to keep from smoking the battery
as it is not current regulated so will try to do this if the battery is
fully discharged, regardless of what kind of battery it is. And any battery
charging at this much current has the potential to explode.
It goes back to mixing "being in a hurry" with "aviation" has the same
result as mixing alcohol with guns, boats, cars, or anything else that
causes propulsion.
A dead battery is always unexpected, causes us to get frustrated, tends make
us want to hurry up to get past the obstacle, when in fact we should just
chill, take it as sign from the deity of your choice and have lunch while
the battery is recharging, after removing it from the airplane. (I know you
-4 folks are shuddering at this, but I have seen more than one battery blow
up, and they do go with one heck of a bang. I will agree that trickle
charging in the aircraft is probably safe, as long as someone is there
monitoring it.)
I've read all the literature on AGMs as well, but once you've seen a battery
melt down or explosion, or ni-cad thermal event, well, you just get kinda
leery of not doing what you know is safest, even in spite of who says what
about their products/designs/inventions.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | battery charging |
So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on
whenever the plane is in the hangar?
Thanks
John RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parts Reuse Tolerances |
| From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
I am in the midst of assembling my RV-8A vertical stab and had my first
serious "life is a lot harder when you're stupid" building episode by
somehow assembling the aft spar with the countersunk holes on the wrong
side. I know - how in the hell..............?
Anyway, I decided to order new VS-803PP and 808PP components, but try to
salvage the 410, 411 and 412 hinge fittings. When I removed the rivets,
most of the holes seemed ok, but a few (not more than one in each
fitting) were visibly enlarged. I felt that from a strength standpoint I
was ok, but wasn't sure about the long term alignment or the possibility
of slipping once assembled.
I decided to order new hinge components, but wonder what others'
thoughts are regarding reusage tolerances when correcting riveting
mistakes?
Paul Valovich
Ridgecrest, CA
661-400-3640
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 Up Elevator Stop |
Pete,
It does not really matter but it has been found to fit better if you drill
and bolt the stop to the vertical fin first, then to the fuselage longerons.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Up Elevator Stop
>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 07:52:12 -0600
>
>
>Hello,
>
>I am mounting my VS and am confused as to if the F-912D elevator stop
>should be drilled and bolted to the VS first or the fuselage first.
>It might not matter, and the instructions are a bit ambiguous.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Yes, My plenums were separated, one for each row of cylinders. I used hinges
on all 4 sides of the top of each plenum and it was a good method.
Unfortunately I removed the plenums in an act of desperation to lower Cyl
head temps before I learned that the casting flash was the problem. I could
scan the pictures if anyone desires.
John
RV6A O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
>
>AGM batteries have no problem whatsoever with high amperage
>charging, as long as you don't get them hot enough to melt the plastic
>case. :-) You can charge an AGM at close to it's CCA rating as long as you
>limit the voltage to under 15 volts (and watch the temperature if you do
>more than one cycle.)
>
>
>I still stand by my thoughts that one should not take off with a discharged
>battery.
It's wise to have the battery close to fully charged whenever the
airplane is in the air. More time to stay running if the alternator quits.
>I can just see myself trying to explain why the semi-charged,
>semi-smoking, semi-melting battery in the cockpit bolted next to the hot
>firewall in a tightly closed aluminum box caused me to turn off the
>electrical system therefore making an emergency NORDO landing.
Actually, charging is an endothermic reaction. An AGM starting
battery does not heat up much during the bulk portion of the charge. The
final portion of the charge tends to generate the most heating.
The internal resistance of the Hawker AGM that most folk use in
their RV airplanes is about 12 milli-ohms. At a 60 amp charge rate this is
about 40 watts of heat.
If the battery was healthy enough to crank the engine and start
it, it will not mind a 60 amp charge.
>NO BATTERY SHOULD BE CHARGED AT FULL ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WHILE OPERATING THE
>AIRCRAFT. The alternator does not know how to keep from smoking the battery
>as it is not current regulated so will try to do this if the battery is
>fully discharged, regardless of what kind of battery it is. And any battery
>charging at this much current has the potential to explode.
Actually, the alternator is more at risk than the AGM battery.
A lead-acid battery won't generate gas until the last portion of
the charge. It must reach "gassing voltage" which is a bit over 13 volts.
Thus, the highest risk for explosion is a battery that is just become fully
charged.
>It goes back to mixing "being in a hurry" with "aviation" has the same
>result as mixing alcohol with guns, boats, cars, or anything else that
>causes propulsion.
>
>A dead battery is always unexpected, causes us to get frustrated, tends make
>us want to hurry up to get past the obstacle, when in fact we should just
>chill, take it as sign from the deity of your choice and have lunch while
>the battery is recharging, after removing it from the airplane. (I know you
>-4 folks are shuddering at this, but I have seen more than one battery blow
>up, and they do go with one heck of a bang.
They (flooded lead-acid, not AGMs) usually blow up from the
hydrogen explosion. This happens when they are overcharged (or at the end
of the charge cycle.) You also need a spark. Taking the battery in and out
sounds like a good way to make the needed spark.
If you use a good quality automatic charger, there really is no
need to remove the battery from the airplane for charging.
I have never seen an AGM burst from being too quickly charged.
This is saying something.
In electric drag racing, we very often must recharge in less than
15 minutes. Typically, to get these fast charges, the peak current will be
hundreds of amps. They push charging currents like this into 13 amp-hr
Hawker Genesis AGMs. The AGMs seem to like it, actually. EV drag racers
will fast charge even if there is no hurry because the batteries have
slightly lower internal resistance and a touch higher amp-hour capacity if
you fast charge.
They typically use a "dump pack" of larger AGM batteries, like
Optima Yellow Tops or Optima group 31s to supply the charging
current. They will switch in more batteries in the dump pack as the
vehicle batteries fill up and the voltage rises.
Conversely, I have seen more than one flooded lead-acid battery
explode while someone was monkeying with it. The battery was fully charged
in both cases and someone made a spark that touched off the hydrogen near
the vents.
AGMs are pressurized and have "Bunsen" style vent valves. These
valves prevent the flame from traveling back to the gas volume above the
cell. You can blow off the plastic strip that covers the vents, but that is
about it.
It is important not to confuse your past experience with flooded
batteries with the modern AGM batteries. AGM batteries are a very different
animal.
>I will agree that trickle
>charging in the aircraft is probably safe, as long as someone is there
>monitoring it.)
>
>I've read all the literature on AGMs as well, but once you've seen a battery
>melt down or explosion, or ni-cad thermal event, well, you just get kinda
>leery of not doing what you know is safest, even in spite of who says what
>about their products/designs/inventions.
I've seen plenty of battery melt-downs, fires, and explosions.
I've jumped off my bike at the end of the strip with flames coming out of
the battery pack. None of these incidents occurred while charging AGMs.
They all occurred during severe discharge or short-circuits.
On the strip (and in EVs in general) the most common cause of a
burst or smoking battery is a cell "reversal." This occurs when a weak
battery, in a series of healthy batteries, fully discharges, and then it's
terminal voltage reverses. The rest of the batteries in the string force
current through the weak battery. The weak battery does not supply energy,
but begins to absorb it. If the current is not huge, it doesn't burst or
smoke, it will actually charge in reverse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
"Rocket List"
Hi All,
I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing
this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen
some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one
of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any
discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another
point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "u2nelson" <u2nelson(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag |
Actually this is one of the lowest pressure areas, but you are correct that
any disturbance there would be bad. I have a slider and I went out of my
way to keep the bump as small as possible, to keep the potential drag
penalty low. I believe I succeeded, as my rocket is one of the fastest out
there. Check out the Reno race results, compare with the other rockets,
just a tad behind John and the impressive HRIII, and better than the other
HRIIs with flip overs.
I think the choice really comes down to better visibility (only marginally)
vrs hanging your arm over the edge on a hot day. The slider is really a nice
addition IMOP for ground operations.
Greg Nelson
N144X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry James
Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James"
Hi All,
I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing
this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen
some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one
of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any
discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another
point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
In a message dated 1/10/05 6:52:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
john(at)fureychrysler.com writes:
So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on
whenever the plane is in the hangar?
Thanks
John RV6A
John,
If you have a wet cell battery, you can charge it as long as you want to, as
long as the electrolyte stays above the plates. When the battery is fully
charged, the water starts to leave the solution in the form of oxygen and
hydrogen gasses. The water level will start to drop as a result of this
overcharging even if it is charging at a very low current (read float). When
the
electrolyte level gets below the top of the plates, things get pretty dangerous.
If a small conductive particle gets between the plates and causes a spark,
the O2 and H2 can explode -- big time!
I once left a trickle charger on a tractor in the barn, and found it a month
later blown all over the barn floor. Luckily, there was no fire. It made a
believer of me!
Another thing happens if you overcharge a wet cell battery. Gas bubbles
form on the plates which causes the battery to not operate at full capacity
until after the battery has had time to rewet the plates, after removing the
charger.
If you leave that charger on continuously, make sure you don't let the
electrolyte level get too low.
I'm not sure if this applies to gel-cel batteries, or not. However, there
is no advantage to overcharging any battery, that I know of. Once it has had
enough time to reach full charge, take the charger off. If it is a good
battery it will stay charged very nearly full for at least a month in cold
weather. Now, some electronic regulators have a constant drain on the battery
of a
few milliamperes. You may want to determine what this current is before
letting the battery stand all winter, or else unhook one terminal of the battery.
All this is IMHO!
Regards,
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A
N766DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Parts Reuse Tolerances (NAS 1097 rivets) |
Big snip -----------
When I removed the rivets, most of the holes seemed ok, but a few (not more
than one in each
fitting) were visibly enlarged. I felt that from a strength standpoint I
was ok, but wasn't sure about the long term alignment or the possibility
of slipping once assembled.
Hi Paul
Get an assortment of "Oops Rivets" (NAS 1097) they are used in oversize
holes and have undersize heads so a finished 1/8 rivet looks just like a
3/32 rivet and matches the rest of the rivet line.
I see Vans have 1097AD4 size in their catalog but I would recommend Averys
"Uh-ow hole saver kit" as it also contains an assortment of the -3 (3/32)
size. There were a few hard to reach spots where I had to drill out a rivet
twice and on the third attempt it was necessary to drill the hole out to #30
and go to the next larger -4 (1/8) rivet size, third time has always been
lucky!
I use a lot of the 1097AD3-XX (3/32) rivets because they are really great
for mounting plate nuts on thinner skins. The countersink hole for a 1097AD3
is very shallow and can be made with a deburring bit, saves dimpling both
the skin and the plate nut lugs if a regular rivet was used.
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on
>whenever the plane is in the hangar?
>
>
I don't know how dangerous leaving a lead acid battery on float charge
is, but I have read that if you do leave it on float charge you need to
be sure the charge voltage is no more than 13.8V for a 12V battery. Any
higher and it will damage the battery. That may be why the tractor
battery Dan Hopper mentioned had an untimely demise. For a cycle
charge, the charge voltage can be as high as 15V.
Another option to float charging that is supposed to be better for the
battery, is to have the charger on a timer so it comes on for an hour a
day. Get to thinking about it, that is for NiCd's. Lead acid batteries
go a few weeks before there is much self discharge, where a NiCd self
discharges a significant amount in the first 24 hours. If you were
going to do that to a lead acid battery, an hour or 2 a week would
probably be plenty. Now the trick is finding a timer that lets you go
in week long cycles.
Chris W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gear Tower Mod |
In a message dated 1/11/2005 7:51:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes:
http://www.mstewart.net/super8/interesting.htm
Mike,
Have you decided whether or not you need me to make a cable for you?
No rush on my part, just wondering.
Paul
Falcon Field D30
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Yes I was waiting on the cable.
Though you had to order parts or something.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PSILeD(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear Tower Mod
In a message dated 1/11/2005 7:51:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes:
http://www.mstewart.net/super8/interesting.htm
Mike,
Have you decided whether or not you need me to make a cable for you?
No rush on my part, just wondering.
Paul
Falcon Field D30
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
In a message dated 1/11/05 3:39:37 AM Central Standard Time,
1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net writes:
> >So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on
> >whenever the plane is in the hangar?
>
>>>>>>
I got one of these two years ago and it works fine on my Panasonic 20Ah RGM
battery. I've never left it on for extended periods (nor anything else in the
hangar) but the description indicates this wouldn't be a problem. My battery
hardly discharges and I've never found it too low to crank the plane in over a
year of use, even after not being cranked for over a month. Mostly just used
the charger during final assembly while I was doing a lot of circuit &
instrument testing before first engine start.
http://store.azmusa.com/azmotorsports/batejr12v.html
Works great, still $20+shipping
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/11/05 3:39:37 AM Central Standard Time,
> 1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net writes:
>
>
>>>So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on
>>>whenever the plane is in the hangar?
>>
>
> I got one of these two years ago and it works fine on my Panasonic 20Ah RGM
> battery. I've never left it on for extended periods (nor anything else in the
> hangar) but the description indicates this wouldn't be a problem. My battery
> hardly discharges and I've never found it too low to crank the plane in over
a
> year of use, even after not being cranked for over a month. Mostly just used
> the charger during final assembly while I was doing a lot of circuit &
> instrument testing before first engine start.
>
> http://store.azmusa.com/azmotorsports/batejr12v.html
>
> Works great, still $20+shipping
>
>>From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
Dittos on the Battery Tender, Jr. on a Panasonic RG battery.
I have an iPAQ in the plane that stays hooked up to the bus fulltime
(the iPAQ's battery has expired and it costs too much to replace it).
The charger pigtail is near the oil filler door along with the oil sump
heater plug and both run continuously during the winter months.
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charging |
If you have one of the new generation batteries, I think you will find the following
info of practical use:
Manufacture literature for SLI or VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) batteries: charger
selections, charging rates-normal-fast, discharge rates, pulse discharge
(cranking), storage, specs and design info like impact/shock and temp limits.
http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/odyssey_guide.pdf
Another detail doc of charging charicteristics for SLI / VRLA batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_ChargingMethods.pdf
A short text on the battery operation, cautions and charging:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm
Cheers G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
| Subject: | Day VFR to Night VFR Operating Limitations |
If I construct my plane to operate Daytime VFR and later add the appropriate
equipment for Night VFR, what if anything is required from a paperwork point
of view? When I'm issued the Operating Limitations, it would say Day VFR
only. How would you get that changed to read Day/Night VFR?
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
www.n523rv.com <http://www.n523rv.com/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy bow drag |
>
> Hi All,
> I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy.
I flew the time off a full scale replica of a P-51 with a Lycoming T-53
Turbo-prop engine and a tip-over canopy. On the airplane's third flight, my
second, the canopy came off. You can not imagine what the wind is like at
180 kias. I had a backpack chute, which I strongly considered using, that
kept my back away from the seat back and headrest. I had to support my
upper body and helmet against the wind. My visor was ripped off, but my
glasses remained, and protected my eyes. There were tornados of tears
behind the lenses and I could not read anything on the panel. Based on the
pitch of the airplane, I felt I was getting slow on final and I put in some
power. The most physically demanding thing I have ever done in my life was
to hold my head up against the prop wash. I landed without incident, but I
am a HUGE fan of fixed windscreens.
I fly a -4 with a tipover, and I love the view, but it will probably be the
last airplane I own without a fixed windscreen. My recommendation is
overwhelming for the slider.
Tailwinds
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Day VFR to Night VFR Operating Limitations |
Make sure your Operating Limitations say "day VFR, night VFR and/or IFR in
accordance with FAR..." or something to that effect. You can find specific
example by searchig the web - and the (D)AE's will want a specific verbage.
Bryan Jones
>
>If I construct my plane to operate Daytime VFR and later add the
>appropriate
>equipment for Night VFR, what if anything is required from a paperwork
>point
>of view? When I'm issued the Operating Limitations, it would say Day VFR
>only. How would you get that changed to read Day/Night VFR?
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
>EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
>www.n523rv.com <http://www.n523rv.com/>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 01/08/05 Cooling Air |
It's easy to get this all backwards. When high velocity air comes in
thru the cowling "nostrils" it enters a diffuser section where the velocity drops
and the STATIC PRESSURE RISES! This static pressure is what drives the air
down through the cylinder fins. It is also this pressure which forces air
though the oil cooler.
The tradeoff from dynamic to static pressure is not total as there
remains a small velocity component.
This is why the upper cowling is shaped like a diffuser, to recover
pressure from the relative velocity of the incoming air.
Paul S. Petersen, RV6A (with son Eric) 90% done 20% to
go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Day VFR to Night VFR Operating Limitations |
Mat,
It may not say VFR only. Most all the current versions of the Operating
Limitations have wording similiar to "Unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or IFR, this aircraft is restricted to Day VFR." That means that
you, the pilot, make the decision. Of course, that decision is based on the
pilot's knowledge FAR 91.205, right??
If, at the time of certification, the Operating Limitations do state that
the aircraft is restricted to Day VFR, then you can ask the inspector to
change the wording to align with the requirements of FAA Order 8130.2F.
If you have any quesitons drop me an email directly and I will see what I
can do.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
>From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Day VFR to Night VFR Operating Limitations
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:04:18 -0600
>
>
>If I construct my plane to operate Daytime VFR and later add the
>appropriate
>equipment for Night VFR, what if anything is required from a paperwork
>point
>of view? When I'm issued the Operating Limitations, it would say Day VFR
>only. How would you get that changed to read Day/Night VFR?
>
December 31, 2004 - January 11, 2005
RV-Archive.digest.vol-qi