Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-do
July 19, 2003 - August 03, 2003
Dr. Morisson Wrote:
At the end of the day, flying a plane that's 50% of your dream is a helluva
lot
better than
having nothing but 100% of the same old dream .
This is so true and very nicely said.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Weber" <chrisoz(at)gmx.net> |
Hello Brandon,
I have taken delivery of the aluminium bar for the spring gear on my current
project, a plane based roughly on the XL as a open tandem taildragger. The
spring weights 13 kg, all in all not to bad. It has the same diameter and
material specifications as the ones used on the 701.
I have build and flown 2 Zodiac taildraggers in the last three years, one
kit and one from scratch, and the standard undercarriage takes a lot of
punishment and handles great. But I am getting kind of tired with all the
fiddly bits, gear slides, bungees, bearings, welding of the boxes etc. Once
my current project is in the air around Christmas I will tackle an other 601
HD, and will put a spring undercarriage in. It is really quite
straightforward, make the two inner nose ribs in 40 thou, put a U-channel in
front of the main spar, stiffen the whole area up a bit, weld up the
brackets and there you go.
But then I suppose I am somewhat uninhibited as far as deviation from plans
is concerned ;-)
Installation of the bungee box : it is easy, just tie the wheel fork and
the metal box together with a length of rope through the bungee retaining
tubes, place the assembly in your vice and lever the bungees on. Then slide
the whole thing in the wing and put the AN 3 bolts in (glue the nuts onto
the inside of the extrusions with epoxy first, or you will have to break
your fingers twice in order to fit the nuts in there). Check out the
archive, the process is described in detail in there somewhere.
Cheers from Downunder,
Chris
>
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum
spring gear?
> I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs, but it seems
> like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea about the
weight
> difference between the two? Ground handling characteristics? Mounting
location
> and airframe modifications?
>
> I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box"
installation
> on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would be.
>
> -Just thinking aloud.
>
> Brandon Tucker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | abc abc <yah67890(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | importing to Au Thanks, more than meets the eyes |
Thanks everyone for my recent enquire about importing to Au.
I recieved many private emails with real information.
So when luking you may only see some info but the Guy and Gals? here are the Best.
If you have a genuine question/ problem the people here are more than helpful.
Thanks Again for all the infomation
Tony
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Flight Planning & Moving maps free |
For those of you getting close to flight testing and panel planning have
a look at these sites. I just downloaded them and feel that you get a
lot more then you thought you would for free.
This is just for information purpose.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
Here is a company that offers a FREE moving map
http://www.pocketfms.com and they also get their data from DAFIF. Is
there anyone out there already working on this approach? It seems
almost too good to be true. Updates every 28 days and it's free.
Here you can get free digital chart info. this company
http://www.winpilot.com/vfr/generalvfr.asp uses the DAFIF free info
for its moving map display. and there is a free DAFIF viewer located
here http://www.esri.com/software/arcexplorer/download2.htm just
simply register and it's free. The free DAFIF digital chart info is
suppose to be as good as Jeppensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Victim needed!! |
Amen to that!
BTW: when enlarging my delete key, I am considering using a stainless steel
key oversized by 25% attached to the existing key, any suggestions on epoxy
usage? ...Just kidding.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fdarby" <fdarby(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: HDS spring gear |
----- Original Message -----
From: fdarby
Subject: Re: HDS spring gear
Good Morning Brandon,
The standard gear on my purchased HD did not function properly. Maximum travel
on the right main after 30 landings was 1/16 of and inch and the left main
was 1/8. The factory calls for 1/2 inch travel, so I obviously had a problem.
The rigid gear made my plane handle very poorly on the ground and was nothing
short of painful to land. My solution ( which was understandably not blessed
by Zac ) was to add spring gear to my plane. I contacted Robby Grove at Grove
Aircraft for assistance. He and his entire staff where a pure pleasure to work
with. He proved to be not only very knowledgeable but was eager to assist a layman
in the design of a new system. I used his spring gear, wheels and brakes.
His machine work is impeccable. The planes ground manners are infinitely better
and she lands like a bird and stops like a Ferrari. I am extremely pleased
with the conversion. I have a little over 100 landings on the new gear and all
is well so far.
The weight issue is a little more difficult to answer. The plane was down for
several weeks while converting the gear. During that time I removed the ailerons
and converted them to full length piano hinges, replaced the interior and
added a little DigiTrack auto pilot. I also removed some baggage compartments
the previous owner had put in the back as well as a ballast rack that was in
the tail. The gear that Robby designed for my plane was not as heavy as the gear
used on the XL ( note: he makes the gear for Zac's XL kits ). My plane gained
a total of 9 lbs going from 714 to 723 lbs. It is important to remember, that
I also add 5X500 wheels and brakes which are considerably heaver than the
standard. I believe if you kept the original wheels and brakes ( not suggested
) you could come very close to breaking even weight wise.
I am not implying that the original gear system is in any way deficient, mine
simply did not function as designed and the spring gear was my answer to the
problem at hand. The piano hinges where added to ease the work load of the auto
pilot. The plane as designed is extremely impressive and I do not want to leave
the impression that I am trying to improve the wheel. I have sent a couple
of pictures of the spring gear to be posted to the list so you can get an idea
of what I am talking about. Brandon, I hope this information is helpful to
you. If I can be of further service please don't hesitate to contact me.
Remember to keep the blue side up, Frank Darby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Herren" <wmdherren(at)hotmail.com> |
There are advantages for the Zenith designs that may increase their resale
value soon. Sport Pilot is something to consider. Many of the Zenith
designs can meet SP rules. None of the current RVs can qualify. For me it
was a no brainer. Years ago there was a saying - we're all just one medical
from being ultralight pilots. It looks like there will be a great
opportunity for lost medical pilots to fly again.
Bill In Lousyana XL Rudder only till the rule is written.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Stout" <n282rs(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Planning & Moving maps free |
If you have a Magellan 315 or 320, you can go to
http://home.stny.rr.com/bkw/315/ and download an aviation database for free.
It requires some software and a data cable. It's not exactly a moving map,
but it gets you there.
Randy Stout - San Antonio TX
CH601HD N282RS
r5t0ut(at)earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Planning & Moving maps free
>
>
> For those of you getting close to flight testing and panel planning have
> a look at these sites. I just downloaded them and feel that you get a
> lot more then you thought you would for free.
> This is just for information purpose.
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
>
> Here is a company that offers a FREE moving map
> http://www.pocketfms.com and they also get their data from DAFIF. Is
> there anyone out there already working on this approach? It seems
> almost too good to be true. Updates every 28 days and it's free.
>
>
> Here you can get free digital chart info. this company
> http://www.winpilot.com/vfr/generalvfr.asp uses the DAFIF free info
> for its moving map display. and there is a free DAFIF viewer located
> here http://www.esri.com/software/arcexplorer/download2.htm just
> simply register and it's free. The free DAFIF digital chart info is
> suppose to be as good as Jeppensen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shay King" <shaking(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | 701 front wing struts |
Dear Listers,
Is there anyone out there who has gotten the one piece wing struts for the 701
from the Czech Aircraft Works. If so, I want to know if your front struts are
handed, i.e. one made for the right side and the other made for the left side.
The plans show the strut end plates inline, which means the struts should be interchangeable,
left or right. My struts have the end plates offset 3 degrees,
one to the left and the other to the right. This makes one strut fit the right
side perfectly and the other strut fit the left side perfectly, but they are
not interchangeable.
This would not be a problem, except I made a mistake drilling the holes for the
jury struts in the left wing struts. I ordered new wing struts for the left
side, and when they arrived the front strut will fit the right side of my a/c
but not the left where I need it.
If someone with these one piece 701 wing struts from CZAW could check their end
plate alignment and let me know the result I'd be grateful. The factory response
is that the endplates are not offset and that the front strut should fit
either side.
Regards,
Shay King. 701/912S Nearly finished.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
| Subject: | My progress so far |
Well, I've finally made sufficient progress that I'm now willing to share it with
the world. So for those interested in seeing some pictures of my airplane,
here is my website:
http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/zodiac_main.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
I finally got paid by the insurance company. Thirty four days after my poor
little Zodiac was totalled. The insurance company (AIG) said they would
overnight me a check, then "forgot" to do so. I was originally going to get
my brand new Alarus CH2000 tomorrow, but will now have to wait till
Wednesday.
Incidently, did you know that you can buy a completed CH640, CH601XL, and
CH701 from the factory down here in Georgia! If anyone wants to know more,
e-mail me off the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy(at)visi.net> |
I'd be curious to know what they want for them - Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Insurance
>
> I finally got paid by the insurance company. Thirty four days after my
poor
> little Zodiac was totalled. The insurance company (AIG) said they would
> overnight me a check, then "forgot" to do so. I was originally going to
get
> my brand new Alarus CH2000 tomorrow, but will now have to wait till
> Wednesday.
>
> Incidently, did you know that you can buy a completed CH640, CH601XL, and
> CH701 from the factory down here in Georgia! If anyone wants to know
more,
> e-mail me off the list.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bockius" <bruce(at)whiteantelopesoftware.com> |
| Subject: | Seat belt attachments |
Our EAA chapter just had a speaker, a doctor (and pilot and builder of a
Skybolt and an RV-4) give a talk on crash survivability. One of the
things he covered was how many g's the human body could take and
survive. He asserted that you could take the following:
Horizontal G forces:
50g's for up to 3 seconds and still be able to walk away from the
crash
100-200g's for 0.003 seconds and still be alive. That would be a
pretty impressive seatbelt. (Actually I bet the seatbelt webbing could
take this; it's the attach points, as always, that limit everything.)
Vertical G forces:
He said military ejection seats are designed to produce 20g's, with a
design criteria of not more than 10% of ejectees suffering compressive
fractures of their spine from the accelerator. This is apparently a
pretty fine line though, with 25g's being fatal.
He personally thought since the human body can withstand many more
horizontal g's than vertical, plus that most aircraft have much more
'crush space' ahead of you than below you, that in an emergency landing
in the always-to-short clearing he would much rather run into the trees
at the end than to prang it down onto the ground in an effort to avoid
the trees.
On the positive side the ZAC designs pretty much described his safest
plane: tractor design, metal (actually steel tube & fabric was a little
safer he said), slow stall speeds.
-Bruce/601HD/Stratus/TDO/375hrs
> I also went through the calculations and it appeared that the 0.040
> straps were sized for the 175 lb person for 9 gs. Didn't
> look like the
> 1.33 was used for the fitting sizes. But my straps in the kit appear
> to be 0.063. I still beefed them up a little to prevent the
> bolt from
> pulling through and because I doubt I'll see 175 again.
>
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
List . . . I've ordered a quart of Cortec 373 from ZAC to try in my basement "aircraft
factory". I was pretty excited about getting a non-toxic non-flamable
corrosion protector until I realized that I still have to clean the surface prior
to the corrosion protector. I asked Nick about this and he said they use
lacquer thinner. This is probably all right in a big hanger like they have but
a no-no in my basement workshop which shares space with two 75 gallon open
flame hot water heaters.
I've had good luck removing Sharpie markings etc. from the skins with an organic
product called De-Solv-it which is used primarily to remove labels, etc. Or
perhaps a good rub with the maroon scotch brite and then cleaning with a damp
cloth might do the trick. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on
suitable non-toxic / non-flamable products or procedures which can be used prior
to the application of the 373. Thank you Hap Schoenberger 701 tail done,
working on right wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
The person I bought my fuselage from had already built the header tank out of aluminum.
He installed 6 outlets.....1 to feed the gascolator, 1 each on the lower
left and right sides, and 3 at the top facing the instrument panel. I don't
think all these outlets are required. Is it acceptable to replace some of these
fuel outlets with brass plugs? What thread sealer should be used on fuel tank
fittings? Also, is there some type of fuel level sender which could be incorporated
into one of the fuel outlets in the upper vertical tank wall?
Does anyone have any comments on the ZAC gascolator? Seems like an expensive aluminum
box, with no filter screen, and not worth the $49.
Thank you....Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Seat belt attachments |
These are all good points, the most important being than seat builts do almost
nothing for a vertical deceleration/impact. I believe that it doesn't take too
many
Gs on a vertical impact to rupture the aorta. A local cessna 210 crashed a few
years back and apart from the wings being slightly drooped it looked like the
impact was almost trivial. But the vertical deceleration killed all 6.
So obviously what we all need is an airbag system for our butt!
Perry Morrison
Bruce Bockius wrote:
Our EAA chapter just had a speaker, a doctor (and pilot and builder of a
Skybolt and an RV-4) give a talk on crash survivability. One of the
things he covered was how many g's the human body could take and
survive. He asserted that you could take the following:
Horizontal G forces:
50g's for up to 3 seconds and still be able to walk away from the
crash
100-200g's for 0.003 seconds and still be alive. That would be a
pretty impressive seatbelt. (Actually I bet the seatbelt webbing could
take this; it's the attach points, as always, that limit everything.)
Vertical G forces:
He said military ejection seats are designed to produce 20g's, with a
design criteria of not more than 10% of ejectees suffering compressive
fractures of their spine from the accelerator. This is apparently a
pretty fine line though, with 25g's being fatal.
He personally thought since the human body can withstand many more
horizontal g's than vertical, plus that most aircraft have much more
'crush space' ahead of you than below you, that in an emergency landing
in the always-to-short clearing he would much rather run into the trees
at the end than to prang it down onto the ground in an effort to avoid
the trees.
On the positive side the ZAC designs pretty much described his safest
plane: tractor design, metal (actually steel tube & fabric was a little
safer he said), slow stall speeds.
-Bruce/601HD/Stratus/TDO/375hrs
> I also went through the calculations and it appeared that the 0.040
> straps were sized for the 175 lb person for 9 gs. Didn't
> look like the
> 1.33 was used for the fitting sizes. But my straps in the kit appear
> to be 0.063. I still beefed them up a little to prevent the
> bolt from
> pulling through and because I doubt I'll see 175 again.
>
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
+61 08 89 88 4617
0408892638
perrymorrison(at)yahoo.com
__________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
Is it acceptable to replace some of these fuel outlets with brass plugs?
What thread sealer should be used on fuel tank fittings? Also, is there some
type of fuel level sender which could be incorporated into one of the fuel
outlets in the upper vertical tank wall?
>
> Does anyone have any comments on the ZAC gascolator? Seems like an
expensive aluminum box, with no filter screen, and not worth the $49.
>
> Thank you....Dave
Dave,
Brass plugs work if that's all you have. Use a little Anti-Seize to protect
the threads from locking up. A gascolator from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce
would
probably be a better bargan regardless the price. Fuel level senders are a
matter
of choice. Most use the float and coil contact type available from Wicks or
JC Whitney.
Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
Larry,
Thanks for the comments. I guess I could connect hoses to the lower left and
right fuel outlets, and rout them to each wing locker tank, if I decide to
install them.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank
>
>
> Is it acceptable to replace some of these fuel outlets with brass plugs?
> What thread sealer should be used on fuel tank fittings? Also, is there
some
> type of fuel level sender which could be incorporated into one of the fuel
> outlets in the upper vertical tank wall?
> >
> > Does anyone have any comments on the ZAC gascolator? Seems like an
> expensive aluminum box, with no filter screen, and not worth the $49.
> >
> > Thank you....Dave
>
> Dave,
> Brass plugs work if that's all you have. Use a little Anti-Seize to
protect
> the threads from locking up. A gascolator from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce
> would
> probably be a better bargan regardless the price. Fuel level senders are
a
> matter
> of choice. Most use the float and coil contact type available from Wicks
or
> JC Whitney.
> Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
Also, what type of fuel flter are most builders using between the gascolator
and the engine driven pump?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank
>
>
> Is it acceptable to replace some of these fuel outlets with brass plugs?
> What thread sealer should be used on fuel tank fittings? Also, is there
some
> type of fuel level sender which could be incorporated into one of the fuel
> outlets in the upper vertical tank wall?
> >
> > Does anyone have any comments on the ZAC gascolator? Seems like an
> expensive aluminum box, with no filter screen, and not worth the $49.
> >
> > Thank you....Dave
>
> Dave,
> Brass plugs work if that's all you have. Use a little Anti-Seize to
protect
> the threads from locking up. A gascolator from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce
> would
> probably be a better bargan regardless the price. Fuel level senders are
a
> matter
> of choice. Most use the float and coil contact type available from Wicks
or
> JC Whitney.
> Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Morelli <billvt(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Re: save your butt |
You can also get temperfoam from Wicks Aircraft Supply at
www.wicksaircraft.com They sell it precut or by the foot.
Regards,
Bill
>I live on the other side of the Pacific so I'd be unlikely to trace this.
>Is there a URL
>you can supply?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael michael" <top_gun_toronto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more inline.
with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a very
long way to swaying my mind...
can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from head
office....but
The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount of
metal in both.
But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no prepunching....
How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
>can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
>easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
It is easy to measure the holes. I would guess that most of the flat pieces
would come predrilled by Zenith. That is how my 601 was.
>The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount of
>metal in both.
>But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
Different forms of metal cost different amounts, you really can't go just by
the weight. Also, the Avex rivets are more expensive than the blind rivets.
I really doubt that you could build an RV-7 in the same time or less than
what you would spend building the 640. Dimpling all those holes and bucking
the rivets takes lots of time.
Don't forget you are also comparing a 2-seat kit to a 4-seat kit. Not
exactly an apples to apples comparision. The CH640 is much roomier, and has
over 1000 lb. useful load. If you don't have time to build a CH640, you can
buy one factory-built for only $10k more than the cost of a new Alarus
CH2000 with the same equipment. Not a bad deal given the extra seats, more
metal, and bigger engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bockius" <bruce(at)whiteantelopesoftware.com> |
> >So obviously what we all need is an airbag system for our butt!
>
> ...and the best you can do there is green and blue Temperfoam
> - made with that in mind.
Indeed, the doctor in the crash survival talk specifically mentioned
Temperfoam as being a good idea. He demonstrated dropping a golf ball
on urethane foam from about a 2' height; it bounced probably 1' high.
Then he dropped the ball on a sample of temperfoam from the same height;
it bounced maybe 1/4".
He said there was little difference between blue and green.
-Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
Michael, not a fair comparison. Match Vans RV 10 to the Zenith 640. then
you are talking about comparable planes. IF your curious about Zenith
construction methods then drop by for a visit. I live only an hour away
from you and I'm building a 601XL from plans only. I'm hoping to build
the 640 next but the wife and I are having a battle over it. She wants
the Bearhawk. I'm going to take her to Oshkosh in a couple of weeks and
show her how much sewing she will have to do on the fabric Fuselage of
the Bearhawk. That should convince her on the 640.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
Alma, Ontario.
-----Original Message-----
The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount
of
metal in both.
But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no
prepunching....
How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
on 7/20/03 9:16 PM, Dave Pepper at rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> Also, what type of fuel flter are most builders using between the gascolator
> and the engine driven pump?
>
> Dave
>
None! The fuel filter should go between the fuel pump and the carburetor,
you are less likely to have vapor lock problems that way. If a filter before
the pump becomes partly clogged, the pump will draw suction on the line
between the filter and the pump which can cause the fuel to vaporize at the
inlet to the pump. The pump will not pump vapor and fuel flow will stop,
this is vapor lock. A partially clogged filter after the pump will cause the
pump to pressurize the line and and the fuel will stay liquid and continue
to flow.
I haven't got a fuel filter installed yet but it will goe AFTER the pumps.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks Bryan. The ZAC plans show the filter between the gascolator and the
engine driven pump, so I figured that was the way to go. I know what you're
saying about vapor lock though.
My plan is to have a fuel flow sender in the fuel line after the gascolator
(from MGL Avionics), then a backup Facet pump in series with the engine
pump. MGL says that the filter should be in the line before the sender so
that the small turbine doesn't get clogged with dirt. I guess the gascolator
screen would do this job, and I could put the filter between the engine pump
and carbs.
Also, I was planning on running lines from the wing locker tanks to the
header tank, using a Facet pump on each wing tank. The lines were going to
connect to the 2 fittings at the bottom of the header. Will this work, or
should the wing tank fuel lines be connected to the fittings at the top of
the header tank?
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael michael" <top_gun_toronto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
Dear Zenair people...I`m not trying to ruffle any feathers....
I realy like the 640.
Here are a few questions.
Can you flush rivet the 640, if you want to?
Does anyone with a 640 have the subaru conversion under the hood?
Thanks
Michael in Toronto
>From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:58:01 -0400
>
>
>Michael, not a fair comparison. Match Vans RV 10 to the Zenith 640. then
>you are talking about comparable planes. IF your curious about Zenith
>construction methods then drop by for a visit. I live only an hour away
>from you and I'm building a 601XL from plans only. I'm hoping to build
>the 640 next but the wife and I are having a battle over it. She wants
>the Bearhawk. I'm going to take her to Oshkosh in a couple of weeks and
>show her how much sewing she will have to do on the fabric Fuselage of
>the Bearhawk. That should convince her on the 640.
>
>Mark Townsend
>601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
>Alma, Ontario.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
Good point, Bryan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
She wants
>the Bearhawk. I'm going to take her to Oshkosh in a couple of weeks and
>show her how much sewing she will have to do on the fabric Fuselage of
>the Bearhawk.
Mark Next door neighbor is about 2500 hrs into a Bearhawk (his 3rd scratchbuilt
airplane) and has maybe 1000 to go.He is an IA and works pretty quickly. He
has everything covered up thru the silver and the only sewing is the fin, maybe
2 hrs but this is a big project . If you scratchbuild it you can have it
on the gear ready for engine, instruments and paint for $10K or less. It's an
AWESOME airplane, not your average pattern pony. Neighbors name is Bill Cox and
he will be helping out in the Bearhawk booth. LOW&SLOW JOHN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
For those of you enquiring
An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
w/Lyc 0235.
We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
Flew 1.5 on sat am.
I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a few hrs
on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel consumption
Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had to ask
him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final approach
:
))...)
cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph confirmed
with gps. to be quite accurate.
On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i found i
was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the rear.
Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to build
a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was doing.
And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple dozen
ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once you get
the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w installing
lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at this
point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor ........
Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the aileron.
What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is showing
a slight buckling upwards...
I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
)))
She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at this time
is almost forgotten)
P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the other
way.
So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot at the
front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
Bless you Dudes
dave k
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> |
On Sun Jul 20 at 11:45 AM H. Robert Schoenberger (HRS4(at)prodigy.net) wrote:
List . . . I've ordered a quart of Cortec 373 from ZAC to try in my basement
"aircraft factory". I would appreciate any thoughts you might have
on suitable non-toxic / non-flamable products or procedures which can be
used prior to the application of the 373.
Hap,
I've been using the Cortec since the beginning of the project a couple of
years ago. I only apply it between surfaces that mate. I've been cleaning
the aluminium with soapy water and scotchbrite pads. Rinse the soap off and
the water will bead when it is clean. No nasty chemicals just a strong arm,
a fresh pad, and a few minutes time. No cleanup after either, just towel it
down. I apply the Cortec using disposable gloves and a small square of foam.
Because I use such a little amount I decant a small quantity into a plastic
35mm film canister. The canister is close enough to an airtight seal so I
don't have much wastage. The exposed aluminium is left without any covering
since I' not sure what paint process I will use and I didn't have any
information about the Cortec's compatibility with anything else.
One more thing - make sure it is absolutely dry before you put the pieces
together because you'll never get them apart afterwards.
...neil
Neil Hulin
Cincinnati, OH
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair
(See the engine mount at OSH at the Contact! magazine booth)
Forward Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
Listers,
I've just found out from William Wynne that there will be two engine mounts
on display at Oshkosh. One will be available for purchase at the show to
save some shipping costs. For more information and some pictures check out
William's Q and A page at http://www.flycorvair.com/qanda.html
To use this mount you will have to obtain the 6B6-4 and 6B6-5 engine mount
fittings for the O-235 mount from ZAC or grind out the existing bolts and
weld in some AN6-23 bolts - messy but doable. This mount will also require a
custom cowl.
...neil
Neil Hulin
601XL/Corvair
Forward Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Update on XL |
Dave...
Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you added wheel
pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or for climb?
I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at 138 mph...I would
hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
Dan
For those of you enquiring
An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
w/Lyc 0235.
We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
Flew 1.5 on sat am.
I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a few hrs
on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel consumption
Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had to ask
him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final approach
:
))...)
cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph confirmed
with gps. to be quite accurate.
On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i found i
was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the rear.
Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to build
a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was doing.
And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple dozen
ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once you get
the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w installing
lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at this
point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor ........
Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the aileron.
What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is showing
a slight buckling upwards...
I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
)))
She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at this time
is almost forgotten)
P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the other
way.
So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot at the
front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
Bless you Dudes
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Update on XL |
Hi Daniel
I too was hoping for speeds around 115-120 realisticlly.
No wheel pants yet as i may be installing 6" wheels to smooth thing out a
little more for all the grass strips i fly into .
But i am finding as i get the feel of things a liitle better my landing on
grass are becoming a whole lot smoother and maybe the 5" wheels may be
allrite after all, time will tell..
At this time my climb was my main concern ,and down the road i may take
another degree or so out of the pitch and along with the wheel pants i am
quite confident that 120 mph should be very attainable.
Rite now with the 02235 reving at 2550 1 have 110 mph.
Red line on the engine is 2800 so i have a little to play with.
Rite now with Max load 0f 1400 lbs i am off in approx 650 ft .
Landing roll with out accessive braking 850-900 ft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Vandenberg" <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
>
> Dave...
>
> Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you
added wheel pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or
for climb? I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at
138 mph...I would hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
>
> Dan
>
>
> For those of you enquiring
> An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
> w/Lyc 0235.
> We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
> Flew 1.5 on sat am.
> I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
> I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
> Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
> Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a
few hrs
> on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel
consumption
> Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
> with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had
to ask
> him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final
approach
> :
> ))...)
> cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph
confirmed
> with gps. to be quite accurate.
> On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i
found i
> was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the
rear.
> Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to
build
> a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was
doing.
> And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
> This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple
dozen
> ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
> Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once
you get
> the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
installing
> lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at
this
> point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
> A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor
........
> Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the
aileron.
> What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is
showing
> a slight buckling upwards...
> I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
> Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
> )))
> She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
> It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at
this time
> is almost forgotten)
> P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
> I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the
other
> way.
> So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot
at the
> front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
> Bless you Dudes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Update on XL |
ZAC speeds.
I love my HDS and the attention it gets. Taildraggers are great!! I bought
my kit in '93 after flying the prototype at the Tulsa fly-in in '92. Nick and
Sebastian were absolutely great in helping me complete my plane. I just put three
hundred hours on it yesterday. First flight June 1999.
I also spoke quite a while that day and flew with Randy Shlitter of Rans Aircraft.
Randy tried to be diplomatic but was cautioning me about the speed claims
of "other" kitplanes. I knew he was referring to Zenith.
The days I flew with Nick in the HDS we did 120 easily in the pattern with
no strain. And of course they instructed us to get static pressure right out of
the cabin in setting up the air speed.(We were actually doing about 100 to 105).
Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is the
only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise of 140
for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to is still
out of reach for all but the rare bird. I am not planning on building an XL,
and I am a supporter of these designs, but it is disheartening to see this deception
continue, though I understand the competitive market. Don Walker do not
archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Kubassek
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
Hi Daniel
I too was hoping for speeds around 115-120 realisticlly.
No wheel pants yet as i may be installing 6" wheels to smooth thing out a
little more for all the grass strips i fly into .
But i am finding as i get the feel of things a liitle better my landing on
grass are becoming a whole lot smoother and maybe the 5" wheels may be
allrite after all, time will tell..
At this time my climb was my main concern ,and down the road i may take
another degree or so out of the pitch and along with the wheel pants i am
quite confident that 120 mph should be very attainable.
Rite now with the 02235 reving at 2550 1 have 110 mph.
Red line on the engine is 2800 so i have a little to play with.
Rite now with Max load 0f 1400 lbs i am off in approx 650 ft .
Landing roll with out accessive braking 850-900 ft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Vandenberg" <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com>
To:
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
>
> Dave...
>
> Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you
added wheel pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or
for climb? I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at
138 mph...I would hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> For those of you enquiring
> An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
> w/Lyc 0235.
> We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
> Flew 1.5 on sat am.
> I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
> I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
> Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
> Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a
few hrs
> on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel
consumption
> Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
> with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had
to ask
> him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final
approach
> :
> ))...)
> cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph
confirmed
> with gps. to be quite accurate.
> On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i
found i
> was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the
rear.
> Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to
build
> a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was
doing.
> And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
> This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple
dozen
> ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
> Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once
you get
> the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
installing
> lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at
this
> point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
> A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor
........
> Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the
aileron.
> What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is
showing
> a slight buckling upwards...
> I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
> Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
> )))
> She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
> It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at
this time
> is almost forgotten)
> P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
> I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the
other
> way.
> So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot
at the
> front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
> Bless you Dudes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | XL - main gear attach bolts |
Hi Listers. - specifically XL builders
I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
in it for a cotter pin. Your suggestions would be
much appreciated. Thanks all
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Update on XL |
In a message dated 7/21/2003 7:57:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
dkubassek(at)golden.net writes:
>
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
> installing lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail
> at this point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
>
Just a thought on tail weight. One of the Zenith trainers, CH 2000?, that was
at a Mexico open house had a very substantial tail skid. Aluminum bar, bent
to fit & bolted on.
Has any one looked at that? For both tail protection as well as tail weight?
Jerry,
CH 701SP, wings in work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on XL |
Probably a Great idea jerry!
A tail skid would definatley prevent any tail/rudder damage which could
quite conceivably happen if you where fully loaded and or rotated too
abruptly.
I had even thought of going to a local farm store TSC and picking up a
castor wheel of some kind and fastening it at the rear of the fuselage.
This should work as well.
dave. C-FDSF .XL testing stages :
)))
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update on XL
>
> In a message dated 7/21/2003 7:57:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
> dkubassek(at)golden.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
> > installing lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in
the tail
> > at this point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at
that.
> >
>
> Just a thought on tail weight. One of the Zenith trainers, CH 2000?, that
was
> at a Mexico open house had a very substantial tail skid. Aluminum bar,
bent
> to fit & bolted on.
>
> Has any one looked at that? For both tail protection as well as tail
weight?
>
> Jerry,
> CH 701SP, wings in work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XL - main gear attach bolts |
David
Would you not want to go with a Grade 8 bolt???
I would think that would be more than adequate
dave k
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL - main gear attach bolts
>
> Hi Listers. - specifically XL builders
> I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
> attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
> apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
> with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
> in it for a cotter pin. Your suggestions would be
> much appreciated. Thanks all
> David
>
> =====
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder
> Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the
wings.
> Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for
inspection.
>
> __________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Caithcart" <bcaithcart(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
Neil,
Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
Brian Caithcart
CH601HD/corvair
building from plans
>To use this mount you will have to obtain the 6B6-4 and 6B6-5 engine mount
>fittings for the O-235 mount from ZAC or grind out the existing bolts and
>weld in some AN6-23 bolts - messy but doable. This mount will also require
>a
>custom cowl.
>
>...neil
>
>Neil Hulin
>601XL/Corvair
>Forward Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
> I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more inline.
> with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a very
> long way to swaying my mind...
>
> can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
> easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
>
> I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from head
> office....but
>
> The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount of
> metal in both.
> But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
>
> I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
> understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no prepunching....
> How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
>
Michael,
Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the cusp
of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price comes down
quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that guarantees
success.
No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight edge
prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
interval
of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always know
where
your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath on the
strip template
and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template. Then
nearly all the
holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that restarted
my rudder
early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand. When you screw it up, just
do it over.
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
On Mon Jul 21 at 1:29 PM, Brian Caithcart (bcaithcart(at)hotmail.com) wrote:
Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
Brian,
I don't have the dimensions of the HD firewall to compare to the XL. Perhaps
we can compare specs for the engine mount fittings offline and report our
findings back to the list. That is, of course, unless someone out there has
already looked into this issue. Anyone?
I'll look at my diagrams and send you the XL dimensions in the next day or
so.
...neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please |
Listers,
I've been working to help William Wynne develop the Corvair engine mount for
the 601XL. I'll be meeting up with William next week at Oshkosh. Can I
please have expressions of interest in the Corvair engine mount?
Information that would be helpful:
601 Model (XL/HD/HDS)
Current build status
Expected completion date
Build engine mount from plans or purchase from William (Build/Buy)
Is the use of the ZAC O-235 cowl important to you? (We aren't even sure that
this will work yet but at least one builder already has this cowl and has
expressed interest in using it with the Corvair.)
If we can source a custom cowl, would you prefer to buy something other than
the ZAC O-235 cowl?
Would you be prepared to make you own cowl?
Comments on induction system, carb and cabin heat?
Anything else that you consider important?
Anything that you'd like me to talk to WW about and report back to the list?
You can reply directly to me if you like. I'll put some statistics out after
OSH.
Thanks. Keep building. One day you will fly.
...neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XL - main gear attach bolts |
George Swinford wrote:
>
> David:
>
> Does it have an "x" on the head? If so, it's an AN 8.
>
> George
The X can depict an AN bolt, but I thought most AN bolts were closer to
grade 5. Grade 8 is stronger, but they're a little brittle, won't stand
much bending before it snaps.
I wouldn't substitute one for the other unless the manufacturer OK's it.
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave said "Also, I was planning on running lines from the wing locker tanks
to the
header tank, using a Facet pump on each wing tank. The lines were going to
connect to the 2 fittings at the bottom of the header. Will this work, or
should the wing tank fuel lines be connected to the fittings at the top of
the header tank?
The arrangement noted by Dave has worked fine for us. The only problem is
that there is no room to pump the fuel into the top of the header tank because
it is snug up against the top forward skin. Our wing fuel is pumped into the
header tank at about the 13 gallon level on the 15 gallon tank. We did burn
out one wing transfer (facet) pump when we tryed to go above the 13 gallon
level. Since limiting transfer up to about the 13 gallon level we have not had
a problem.
Stan
601HDS
125 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
Brian Caithcart wrote:
>
>
> Neil,
>
> Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
> the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
I just ordered my Jabiru mount from ZAC. I was originally going to build
it myself so I had Nicholas send me the drawings. He told me that ,Yes,
the mounts are the same for an XL and an HD.
The dimensions on the XL mount drawing (6-JE-1) are 856 mm between the
top holes, 610 mm between the bottom holes, and 460 mm between the tops
and bottoms. Same as the dimensions on the HD firewall drawing.
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Stan,
I guess there are mre powerful pumps than the Facet, which could handle
pumping into the base of the header tank beyond the 13 gallon max. One
question...do you have check valves in your lines from the wing tanks, or is
the check valve incorporated into the Facet pump sufficient to stop reverse
fuel flow back to the wing tanks?
Did you consider plumbing the wing tanks directly into the gascolator
through a ful selector, and why did yu chose not to do that?
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
List:
I do not support the statement quoted below:
"Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is the
only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise of 140
for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to is still
out of reach for all but the rare bird."
Ours gets the 135 at the minimum and has gotten up to 140 mph (GPS confirmed)
at 7,500'. A change of the original Prince prop to a Sensenich increased
the speed significantly and wheel pants added another 5 mph. Will be
interested to see what the sea level speeds will be as even the Prince prop did
great
coming out of OSH last year.
Quality of build, empty weight, engine, altitude and temp are all critical
factors in determining the cruise speed. Think we should consider a flyoff at
the Open House Hangar day this year at Mexico to see how many 'rare birds'
there are.
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich 64/49
125 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael michael" <top_gun_toronto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
I would like to corespond with anyone doing a scratch build of the zenair
kits
I`m very intrested in the 640.
If you do scratch build how much do you save off kit price.?
Are the plans scratch build friendly....do you have to scale up rib outlines
or do you get them 1:1 scale & transfer to a forming block?
any other tidbits of info is welcome.
Michael in toronto.
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:04 -0500
>
>
> > I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more
>inline.
> > with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a very
> > long way to swaying my mind...
> >
> > can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
> > easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
> >
> > I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from head
> > office....but
> >
> > The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount
>of
> > metal in both.
> > But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
> >
> > I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
> > understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no
>prepunching....
> > How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
> >
>Michael,
>Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the cusp
>of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price comes down
>quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that guarantees
>success.
>
>No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight
>edge
>prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
>interval
>of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always know
>where
>your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath on
>the
>strip template
>and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template. Then
>nearly all the
>holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
>
>There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that restarted
>my rudder
>early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand. When you screw it up, just
>do it over.
>
>Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave:
Your question: do you have check valves in your lines from the wing tanks, or
is
the check valve incorporated into the Facet pump sufficient to stop reverse
fuel flow back to the wing tanks?
Answer: We did have backflow when we mounted the Facet pump horizontally so
we installed a separate check valve. Then-we read the instructions and
mounted it at a high angle so the check valve would work. I believe(?) we removed
the separate check valve after installing the Facet pump correctly.
Your question: Did you consider plumbing the wing tanks directly into the
gascolator
through a fuel selector, and why did you chose not to do that?
Answer: No, we did not. My building partner and I felt that having the fuel
coming from a tank above the carburetor was the safest way to insure that
fuel got to its intended destination.
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Stan,
I guess it doesn't really matter where the wing tank fuel is pumped. If that
tank's Facet pump fails, no fuel will end up in the carbs, since there is no
way to pump fuel to either the header tank or the gascolator.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif(at)duck.org> |
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
I am scratch building the CH-640.
Actually I haven't started yet, but I have purchased the plans.
I can't say yet if the plans are "scratch build friendly". I have been
reviewing them in preparation for building the rudder. I did have a few
questions which were very promptly answered by Mathieu Heintz. The rib
outlines are drawn in a much smaller scale than 1:1. I found it easy to
scale them up, though, using TurboCad.
While my price list is just an estimate, the parts for the rudder should
cost just about half of the rudder starter kit offered by Zenair.
Matthew Mucker is also building a 640. But more importantly he has a
builder list which will give you an idea of other builders out there.
His website is http://www.matthewmucker.com
Hope this meager info helps.
Thanks,
Clif
CH640-0039
http://homebuilt.duck.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of michael
michael
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
-->
I would like to corespond with anyone doing a scratch build of the
zenair
kits
I`m very intrested in the 640.
If you do scratch build how much do you save off kit price.? Are the
plans scratch build friendly....do you have to scale up rib outlines
or do you get them 1:1 scale & transfer to a forming block?
any other tidbits of info is welcome.
Michael in toronto.
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:04 -0500
>
>-->
>
>
> > I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more
>inline.
> > with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a
> > very long way to swaying my mind...
> >
> > can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your
> > holes...is it easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
> >
> > I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from
> > head office....but
> >
> > The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same
> > amount
>of
> > metal in both.
> > But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be
> > seen...
> >
> > I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i
> > dont understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no
>prepunching....
> > How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
> >
>Michael,
>Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the
>cusp of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price
>comes down quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that
>guarantees success.
>
>No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight
>edge
>prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
>interval
>of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always
know
>where
>your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath
on
>the
>strip template
>and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template.
Then
>nearly all the
>holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
>
>There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that
>restarted my rudder early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand.
>When you screw it up, just do it over.
>
>Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | XL - main gear attach bolts |
Gear attachment is no place to start finding hardware that's "close enough"
or "should be better than specified" The correct aircraft hardware just is
not that expensive in the grand scheme of things. You just order what you
need from spruce or many other places and it comes with or without the holes
on the correct or both ends and in the correct grip length for the material
being fastened. Not to mention that it's what the designer specified!
Dave
When the wind lets up I'm on my first flight!
> I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
> attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
> apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
> with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
> in it for a cotter pin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please |
601 Model: XL
Current build status: Tail Done, Working on Wings, Engine
Expected completion date: When I get done.
Build engine mount from plans or purchase from William (Build/Buy):
Probably Purchase
Is the use of the ZAC O-235 cowl important to you?: I'll probably build my
own cowl.
If we can source a custom cowl, would you prefer to buy something other than
the ZAC O-235 cowl: Yes, if the price is right.
Would you be prepared to make you own cowl? YES.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS |
>N601Z (Tail dragger kit), Rotax 912UL. 74" Magnum Ivoprop (in-flight
>adjustable), Castrol Superbike oil, 70 percent Prestone anti-freeze and
>30 percent distilled water, 87 Octane Chevron unleaded autogas. I used
>an off-board 1 gal. fuel can and Facet fuel pump plumbed to the inlet
>side of the engine fuel pump.
>
One of the things that I've noticed from the comments from some of the guys with
water cooled engines over the last year or two is a possible perception that
if "some antifreeze" is good then "more" HAS to be better.
Indy racers (and others I guess) use little or no antifreeze as they aren't concerned
with freezing or corrosion and antifreeze INHIBITS cooling. The more antifreeze
% you have the larger radiator you have to have for a given btu input,
The pressures are higher but the max heat rejection is with no antifreeze.
I wonder how many of the Rotax/Soob drivers have been chasing a problem they
don't really have. I'm not trying to suggest that anybody is doing something wrong
.just pointing out a fact of physics that might help someone avoid a lot
of grief. LOW&SLOW John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave:
Your statement: "Stan, I guess it doesn't really matter where the wing tank
fuel is pumped. If that
tank's Facet pump fails, no fuel will end up in the carbs, since there is no
way to pump fuel to either the header tank or the gascolator."
My Reply: The advantage to the header tank is that I should have a lot of
fuel remaining in it when the wing tank transfer pump fails. Normally, I
start transfer from a wing tank when the header is down to about 8 gallons. I
then transfer 4 gallons to the header. If there is no transfer I have about
1.3 hours and 150 miles to find an alternate airport.
If I could be convinced that the engine would still run with fuel coming from
the wing tanks with a failed facet pump; I might consider direct transfer to
the gascolator/engine.
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Update on XL |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
>
> For those of you enquiring
> An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
> w/Lyc 0235.
> We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
Thanks -- good report!
I hate to see you lose 20lbs of payload -- isn't there a way to move the
battery back a little further to get the necessary c of g? I also have a
heavy engine (CAM100) and have dual RGB batteries located in the tail just
aft of the rear baggage bulkhead and my c of g is just fine (HDS). Where is
your battery located?
Happy flying and please keep giving us the reports!
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Good point, Stan. Also, did you install another Facet pump as a backup to,
and in series with, the engine-driven pump, in case the engine pump fails? I
know that many builders are doing this, installing a backup pump either in
series or in parallel with the engine pump.
Thanks.....Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
I've started assembling the fuel system in my 701 and have noted the absence
of o-rings. What are listers using to seal fuel fittings - especially those
with engines using auto fuel CHIP MULDOON doon47(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax recommendation |
Rotax recommends 50/50 for the 912 and 914 series engines and to never
exceed the coolant manufacturers mixing rations.
Dave
>I am not chasing an over heat problem. Rotax recommendation is 70%
antfreeze. I think boing point is the issue - prestone says 70% mix will
boil at 275 degrees F.
>
Leo Gates
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Update on XL |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> ...I think
> the HDS just runs out of wing at gross weight on a hot day. Certainly at
> 9000ft density altiude the plane is flying well nose high just to maintain
> altitude.
I noticed this nose-high attitude in my first few flights and I've adjusted
my ailerons 'down' a tad on both sides just to get a more comfortable body
attitude.
Re-- 'running out of wing' .... I've been wondering what a wing-tip fence or
vertical extension might do. This aircraft has a small aspect ratio and one
way to increase it effectively, is to add and end vertically. This doesn't
complicate the wing aerodynamics of lift, but MIGHT/SHOULD reduce the
wingtip vortex drag... so the theory goes...
If I ever get other issues all worked out and feel like becoming a test
pilot one day.... ;-) I wonder if the factory has every tried adding some
sort of tip fence?
I think one of the Mikes (FRND?) has modified his wingtips in some
manner....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> I do not support the statement quoted below:
...
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich 64/49
Stan,
For a more accurate assessment - you should take into account the fact that
with a Jab3300 engine you are using significantly more HorsePower than
Zenith bases their specs on for this airplane. The original speed claims
were based on an 80 HP Rotax. I think the Jab3300 produces 120 HP? that's a
50% increase to get those last 10-20 mph that were 'promised' ;-)
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
>> N601Z (Tail dragger kit), Rotax 912UL. 74" Magnum Ivoprop (in-flight
>> adjustable), Castrol Superbike oil, 70 percent Prestone anti-freeze and
>> 30 percent distilled water, 87 Octane Chevron unleaded autogas. I used
>> an off-board 1 gal. fuel can and Facet fuel pump plumbed to the inlet
>> side of the engine fuel pump.
>>
>
> One of the things that I've noticed from the comments from some of the guys
> with water cooled engines over the last year or two is a possible perception
> that if "some antifreeze" is good then "more" HAS to be better.
The 'Prestone' antifreeze sold in these parts (Canada) usually recommend a
50% mix for the best balance of protection from +40C to -40C.. fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS (antifreeze) |
--- jnbolding1 wrote:
>
>
>
> >N601Z (Tail dragger kit), Rotax 912UL. 74" Magnum Ivoprop (in-flight
>
> >adjustable), Castrol Superbike oil, 70 percent Prestone anti-freeze
> and
> >30 percent distilled water, 87 Octane Chevron unleaded autogas. I
> used
> >an off-board 1 gal. fuel can and Facet fuel pump plumbed to the
> inlet
> >side of the engine fuel pump.
> >
>
> One of the things that I've noticed from the comments from some of
> the guys with water cooled engines over the last year or two is a
> possible perception that if "some antifreeze" is good then "more" HAS
> to be better.
>
> Indy racers (and others I guess) use little or no antifreeze as they
> aren't concerned with freezing or corrosion and antifreeze INHIBITS
> cooling. The more antifreeze % you have the larger radiator you have
> to have for a given btu input, The pressures are higher but the max
> heat rejection is with no antifreeze. I wonder how many of the
> Rotax/Soob drivers have been chasing a problem they don't really
> have. I'm not trying to suggest that anybody is doing something wrong
> .just pointing out a fact of physics that might help someone avoid a
> lot of grief. LOW&SLOW John
>
From the car mechanics I have heard for years that plain water WILL
damage the aluminum parts (water pump, thermostat housing, etc) with
corrosion (white foam type), that is why they use antifreeze here.
In fact we have below freezing temperature here in winter only a couple
of days a year, and some winters never get to freezing temperature.
All the newer aluminum engined cars use antifreeze.... Now with your
comment got my head all mixed up...
Please will like to get some facts.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
I've used all-metal Swagelok tube fittings on fuel, oil and brakes: no o-rings
ever. 428. hours on 92 octane mogas and no issues.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax recommendation |
Dave is correct - We (me) sometimes forget why we do things. Rotax says
50/50 is required. I took that as minimum. As I was going to test run
with no cowling, which I assumed would be close to worst case, I
anticipated I might have some cooling problems. The Prestone sold here
on Texas says a max mix of 70/30 will not boil until 275 degrees F. so
I thought that appropriate. As I only encountered a max of 210 F. this
turned out to be a waste of antifreeze. I anticipate a 50/50 mix for
future test runs/flight.
Leo Gates
Dave Alberti wrote:
>
>Rotax recommends 50/50 for the 912 and 914 series engines and to never
>exceed the coolant manufacturers mixing rations.
>Dave
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel fittings |
I used 1/4 alu tube on the discharge side of the wing tank and used brass
compression fittings. No corrosion due to the oily nature of gasoline.
Where I connected a rubber hose to the solid line I first crushed on a brass
ring from a compression fitting. Removed the fitting and the brass ring
provides the perfect hose barb to stop the hose from slipping off when you
use a hose clamp.
On the last fitting you have to saw the cap off being carfeul not to damage
the alu line.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinneo, George [mailto:george.pinneo(at)ngc.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: fuel fittings
-->
I've used all-metal Swagelok tube fittings on fuel, oil and brakes: no
o-rings ever. 428. hours on 92 octane mogas and no issues.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS (antifreeze) |
Gary Gower wrote:
>>From the car mechanics I have heard for years that plain water WILL
> damage the aluminum parts (water pump, thermostat housing, etc) with
> corrosion (white foam type), that is why they use antifreeze here.
>
> In fact we have below freezing temperature here in winter only a couple
> of days a year, and some winters never get to freezing temperature.
> All the newer aluminum engined cars use antifreeze.... Now with your
> comment got my head all mixed up...
>
> Please will like to get some facts.
>
> Saludos
The aluminum DOES require some anti-freeze to prevent corrosion, but the
antifreeze reduces the ability of the coolant to cool the engine.
Distilled water will carry more heat away from the metal it comes in
contact with. Antifreeze reduces the amount of heat that the coolant can
carry away, so you need more coolant to do the same cooling job.
Does that make sense, or am I doing a lousy job of explaining it?
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek(at)golden.net> |
| Subject: | Battery Location |
Thanx for the come back Grant
My battery a G25 is located at the very aft as it can be.
Just ahead of the first bulk head in the fuselage.
Would adjusting my ailerons down a tad have any effect here?
I suppose i could look at adjusting my horiz. stab as well????
dave kubassek C-FDSF/XL/0235
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
I've been flying 100% antifreeze in my 912 for 430 hours: no issues.
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax recommendation |
The additional heat transfer gain more than makes up for the decrease in
boiling point when you go from 70/30 to 50/50. So you'll be better to go
with the 50/50. Below that you start to lose significant corrosion
protection and it could freeze.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax Cabin Heat? |
Hello...
On a related subject to all the talk about Rotax coolant: Does the option exist
to route any of that heat from the Rotax liquid-cooled system through a heater
core for cabin heat?
I asked Nick Heintz about this at Oshkosh last year...he did not sound too excited
about the idea. My impression, from the ZAC web-site, is that the standard
cabin heat setup for the Rotax is to use a muff similar to that used for air-cooled
aircraft engines. I have never found that approach to be very effective.
Perhaps any of you Zodiac drivers could comment...how is cold winter flying in
the Zodiac cabin? Does the big canopy just heat up the cabin from sunlight anyway?
I am very close to starting a 601 XL project. Liquid-cooled engine options
attract me partly because there is the possibility of effective cabin heat.
I will be flying mostly around the upper midwest.
Dan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Ed,
Where did you obtain your wing locker tanks? Are 15 gallon tanks available
for each wing? I have the 16 gallon header, and thinking of removing it for
fire safety reasons. There's just something about 16 gallons of fuel above
my lap, springing a leak and spraying the electrical system, and causing a
fire, that concerns me.
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/22/03 8:51 AM, "Grant Corriveau" wrote:
>I think the Jab3300 produces 120 HP?
120 hp is only available for a short period (take-off) but not continuously.
The continuous maximum power available is 100 hp.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Fred's fuel system seems like the optimal one to me. That header tank is not
really a gravity system since the 912 carbs are higher than the tank mid
section. If an aircraft with wing locker tanks only had one Facet pump on
each wing tank, plus a third Facet pump to back up the engine pump, there
would be so much pumping redundancy that the failure of 1 pump would not
cause any problems. Could you operate such a system without a fuel selector
valve, and only a fuel shutoff valve in the line just before the gascolator?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija(at)pp.inet.fi> |
| Subject: | Welding order (701)... |
Just wondering. What will be an easiest welding sequence for
landing gear & wing strut mounting parts? I'm going to start
TIG-weld it tomorrow...
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/big_maingear7.jpg
-Jari / 701SP / OH-XJJ
www.jarikaija.com
www.project-ch701.net
(Spammers! All spam messages will be deleted automatically
from server, so, save your miserable time...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Sharpe" <fly601(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave,
My 601HD has only leading edge wing tanks with a facet pump at the
outlet of each tank, and no header tank. I don't have a fuel selector
valve, rather I have a shutoff valve - motorcycle type - in each fuel line.
From the shutoff valves the two fuel lines T together then go the
gascolator, then on to the engine driven fuel pump. It's simple and works
well. Although I prefer to run the facet pumps all the time, I can turn off
both facet pumps and the engine driven pump will draw fuel through the facet
pumps all day long.
Paul Sharpe
C-IABP / CH601HD / Rotax 912S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net>
Could you operate such a system without a fuel selector
> valve, and only a fuel shutoff valve in the line just before the
gascolator?
>
> Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
I think that's the way I will do my fuel system, Paul. Sounds pretty simple
and trouble-free. Does anyone know a source to purchase 12-15 gallon wing
locker tanks? Is anyone interested in purchasing my aluminum 16 gallon
header tank? :{)
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61(at)birch.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
If an aircraft with wing locker tanks only had one Facet pump on
> each wing tank, plus a third Facet pump to back up the engine pump, there
> would be so much pumping redundancy that the failure of 1 pump would not
> cause any problems.
++ How much redundancy do you need. (3) Facetts plus the engine pump = 4
!!!
>Could you operate such a system without a fuel selector
> valve, and only a fuel shutoff valve in the line just before the
gascolator?
++ I have a fuel selector and don't use it. As mentioned, I manage the 2
wing tank pumps to even up the fuel levels. The only time I would actually
NEED the selector would be during a forced landing (OFF position).
Therefore, I sincerely hope I never have to use the selector.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 horsepower |
Gentlemen...
Several questions & thoughts about this:
First...according to ZAC's XL website, the Jab 3300 produces 100 hp at 2750 rpm, and 110 at 3000 rpm: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/3300.html
Second...is this at odds with the Jabiru 3300 manual?
Third...correct me if I am wrong...but it is my impression that, although the 3300
does produce 120 hp at 3300 rpm, that in actual practice it is impossible
or inadvisable to get the prop going that fast...therefore the 3300 is in reality
about a 105 - 110 hp engine max for takeoff...and slightly less is available
for continuous use.
Fourth...on the Matronics Seaplane-list last week, Chip Erwin of Czech Aircraft Works (produces Zenith aiplanes for the European market) replied to my inquiry that, at least on floats, he gets BETTER thrust and low-speed/takeoff performance from the 912S, and prefers it to the Jab 3300. Slightly ess speed at the high end, of course. He has flown XL's with both engines: http://www.matronics.com/digest/seaplane-list/Digest.Seaplane-List.2003-07-14.html#MESSAGE1
Dan
Jeff Small wrote:
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61(at)birch.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
> Where did you obtain your wing locker tanks?
++ Glad you asked.... This is an opportunity to show another example of why
everybody should be involved with an EAA Technical Councilor. I discussed
it with him, he instructed me to make a pair of simple wooden tank shapes
that fit each wing locker. (you don't need to make those mock-up complete
on all sides, just rigid enough to hold the needed shape and dimensions so
that a metal tank like it can be made) I delivered the mock-ups to him and
he welded up the tanks for me.
do not arcive
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Fred,
Can you supply the name of the EAA Tech who made your tanks? I may be
interested in contacting him. By the way, how much did he charge to weld the
tanks (including materials)?
Thanks....Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 horsepower |
Dan,
First...according to ZAC's XL website, the Jab 3300 produces 100 hp at 2750 rpm, and 110 at 3000 rpm: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/3300.html
Yep, and in another place on fwf kits they say 105 hp at 2800 rpm.
Second...is this at odds with the Jabiru 3300 manual?
Slightly, as my Installation Manual Jabiru 3300 Aero Engines says what I quoted
in previous post. My engine is 33A051 and around 33A070 the company made a minor
induction system change that lowered (supposedly) the rpm for top hp. Then
a later change in combustion chamber design upped hp by 7 horsepower in some
of the first to receive the mod. Jab has never upped their figures though.
In the Instruction and Maintenance Manual for Jabiru 3300 Aircraft Engine on page
9 is the same info - "Continuous RPM 80kW (107hp) @ 2750 RPM" and "Intermittent
90 kW (120hp) @ 3300 RPM.
Also, in the same Installation Manual (page 11) and on www.jabiru.net.au you will find a "Jabiru 3300 Aero Engine Performance Curve" that shows hp of about 107 @2750 and 110 @ 2800.
Third...correct me if I am wrong...but it is my impression that, although the 3300
does produce 120 hp at 3300 rpm, that in actual practice it is impossible
or inadvisable to get the prop going that fast...therefore the 3300 is in reality
about a 105 - 110 hp engine max for takeoff...and slightly less is available
for continuous use.
I guess this has been around ever since the first strong VW conversion slung a
club. You simply do not run this engine (3300) beyond 3100 rpm, and then only
for short duration. WOT on mine sees 3080 to 3110 rpm. I climb at 2750 and
cruise there if I want to go somewhere. Up it to 2850 if I want to go a bit faster.
Slow to 2600 if I want to enjoy what Zodie Rockets do the best - share
the fun. Chase cows around Pennsylvania at 2300 rpm and 98 to 100 mph.
The 912S is rated at 100 hp for only five minutes if I remember correctly - may
be off here but it's basically a 95 hp engine. Zodies are so draggy that anything
over 95 hp is not going to get you anywhere much faster.
Fourth...on the Matronics Seaplane-list last week, Chip Erwin of Czech Aircraft
Works (produces Zenith airplanes for the European market) replied to my inquiry
that, at least on floats, he gets BETTER thrust and low-speed/takeoff performance
from the 912S, and prefers it to the Jab 3300. Slightly less speed at
the high end, of course. He has flown XL's with both engines:
This would be Chip's area of expertise and he's done fantastically with it. However,
isn't the 912S wearing a very complex and expen$ive variable pitch prop?
I like K.I.S.S. and will stick to a simple two-blade fixed club. Note that
he said, "...at least on floats."
Keep up your interest in the Jab.
Regards jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave:
Yes, a facet pump is installed in series. So, header tank, gascolator, fuel
filter, Facet pump (low pressure one), fuel flow indicator pickup, engine
pump.
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich" <rbauer(at)INTERGATE.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
With all this talk of Facet fuel pumps, no one has yet mentioned which model
#. There are a few out there but can all of them have fuel drawn out of them
from another pump downstream?
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schallgren(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Tank Transfer
>
> Dave:
>
> Yes, a facet pump is installed in series. So, header tank, gascolator,
fuel
> filter, Facet pump (low pressure one), fuel flow indicator pickup,
engine
> pump.
>
> Stan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron DeWees" <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
Hi Dave and Stan.. I am in the process of plumbing my header tank to the
engine and had a slightly different approach to the ultimate goal of
uninterrupted, clean fuel to the carby. I am running the header tank output
into the facet pump, located on the cabin side of the firewall, into a
gascolator with internal fuel filter and from the gascolator to the
mechanical pump and carby. I have heard that it's better to push fuel thru
a filter than suck it thru. I know others have had no problem with the
pump on the output of a filter, but my tech counselor cautioned me about it.
The gascolator was purchased from Great Plans Aircraft and was quite
reasonable. It's internal ceramic filter is reported to be trouble-free.
Ron DeWees
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schallgren(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Tank Transfer
>
> Dave:
>
> Yes, a facet pump is installed in series. So, header tank, gascolator,
fuel
> filter, Facet pump (low pressure one), fuel flow indicator pickup,
engine
> pump.
>
> Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
Most pumps push fluid much better than they suck it. Therefore, the closer
the fuel pump to the source of the fuel, the better the flow of fuel in the
lines using that pump.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Stan,
What is the optimal fuel filter used with a Rotax 912ULS? I have heard that
paper-type filters should not be used.
I was going to install the 4-6 PSI Facet pump in the wings, and possibly a
3rd as a backup to the engine pump after the gascolator. Is this the
appropriate pump as far as fuel pressure is concerned?
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
That's what I do.
I only have two pumps, one at the root of each tank. I switch the pumps on
and off for tank selection.
Works great.
Watch your backup plans though,....My second battery is isolated from the
main batt system with a diode..If the main electrical system goes down I
still got a short term battery supply. Same supply serves the second
ignition.
Frank
601 HDS 302 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Pepper [mailto:rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Tank Transfer
-->
Fred's fuel system seems like the optimal one to me. That header tank is not
really a gravity system since the 912 carbs are higher than the tank mid
section. If an aircraft with wing locker tanks only had one Facet pump on
each wing tank, plus a third Facet pump to back up the engine pump, there
would be so much pumping redundancy that the failure of 1 pump would not
cause any problems. Could you operate such a system without a fuel selector
valve, and only a fuel shutoff valve in the line just before the gascolator?
Dave
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Actually this is not quite a complete or true statement.
All pumps suck or push the same, but if you get any air or vapour in the
pump they will quit working. Fluids with high vapour pressures (auto fuel in
particular) will boil very easily if you suck on them. The warmer the fuel
the less suck it takes to boil it. When you boil the fuel all you get is
vapour which the pump can't pump.
The more flowrate you demand the more suck you need.
Now imagine being on a 110F tarmac runway with big trees at the end.
The moral is never suck fuel uphill or through a resistance such as a
filter, small hoses or uphill. Its OK at cruise 'cos your not near the
ground and not sucking very hard.
The one time you boil the fuel on takeoff could be your last.
Frank (put the pumps next the wing tanks) Hinde
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Pepper [mailto:rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: pump placement
-->
Most pumps push fluid much better than they suck it. Therefore, the closer
the fuel pump to the source of the fuel, the better the flow of fuel in the
lines using that pump.
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Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
Dave:
The 4-6 psi pump is correct for the wing transfer but you want the low
pressure one for the boost pump. I believe Fred had the right number for the
one
in series going to the engine. If not, the catalog at your auto parts store
will state what the output is of each facet pump.
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> |
Tidbits from the archives:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/electri.htm
>the 40171, the 40105, and the 40106. The differences fall into
two distinct categories that relate to pump-off forward and reverse
leakage flows.
The Facet 40171 pump is the type sold by Stoddard-Hamilton Aircraft ,
Inc. (360-495-8533) to serve as a transfer pump for transferring fuel
from the auxiliary tanks to the main tanks. The 40171 costs about $54
each. The Facet 40105 and 40106 are sold by numerous suppliers,
including Aircraft Spruce and Specialties (800-824-1930 (west);
800-831-2949 (east)), Chief Aircraft (800-447-3408), Wicks
(800-221-9425) and others and typically used in the Zenith and other
aircraft for transferring fuel from an aux tank to a header tank. The
40105/6 pumps cost about $28 to $32 each.
Functionally, there is a world of difference between the
40171 and the 40105 / 40106.
All three model pumps have a "lift" capability and can draw fuel from
at least 3-feet. All three move the fuel at about 0.5 gal/min, or about
30 gal/h when they are operating.
In the "OFF" state, however, the differences between the pumps become
more obvious. At a 30-inch head pressure, the 40105 and 40106 pumps
have a forward "leak" rate or drain rate of about 15 gal/h. These pumps
thus flow freely in the forward direction at about one-hald the pumping
rate.... In the reverse direction, the 40105 and 40106 drain backwards
at between 0.05 ga/h to about 0.25 gal/hr, with a mean value over a
dozen tests with four different pumps of about 0.1 gal/h. (As a point
of reference, 0.1 gal/h is about one drop per second). Compare these
numbers to the 40171 pump, which showed no detectable leakage in the
"OFF" state in either the forward or reverse directions over several
hours.
The utilization implications are pretty clear: If your "from" tank is
higher that the "to" tank, you need the 40171 pump to prevent your
"from" fuel from draining into your "to" tank. If your "from" and "to"
tanks are at about the same level, you should still use the 40171 pump
to prevent an exchange of fuel. If your "from" tank is lower than your
"to" tank, you can use any of the pumps described, but if you use the
40105 or 40106, you should use a check valve on the outlet side of the
pump to present your "to" tank from draining back into your "from"
tank. Wicks lists a check valve at about $24, so cost-wise the 40171
may represent a better bargin because it has the checks built into
them....
You can identify the model by looking at the mounting tab on the pump.
One side of the mounting slot will be stamped "40" and the other side
will be stamped "105", 106" or "171".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Facet fuel pumps |
Jeff:
Thanks for that informative post.
One point about using the 105 or 106 fuel pumps to transfer fuel from the Zodiac
wing tanks to the fuselage tank: If the fuel is pumped to an inlet in the top
of the tank only the small amount in the line will be able to leak back thru
the pump to the wing tank. It seems to me that should be no problem.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> The moral is never suck fuel uphill or through a resistance such as
> a filter, small hoses or uphill. Its OK at cruise 'cos your not near
> the ground and not sucking very hard.
>
> The one time you boil the fuel on takeoff could be your last.
Given that info, it seems amazing to me that ZAC would show a different
arrangement on their XL plans -- which clearly shows the pumps way down
the line (after the selector valve in the cockpit and the gascolators).
This means the pump would be sucking fuel for quite some distance (and
I'm referring to models without a header tank), and uphill at that. And
of course, if your primary pump is an engine driven pump, you have no
choice but to suck fuel due to where the pump is located.
Very confusing to a newbie like myself. You want to trust ZAC (and quite
frankly, that's how I built my plane), but the points made here seem very
valid. What to do, what to do. Changing everything now would be
problematic, since getting at the tank outlets (and running wiring to the
pumps) would be difficult for the outboard (extended range) tanks.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Just one other titbit...
The 40106 pump generates more pressure than the 105. I mistakenly had a 105
in one of my wing tanks (wint tank direct to engine via the facet, no other
pumps) and the pressure would drop to zero psi on the guage at full throttle
running just this pump. I never see the 106's drop below 3 psi.
See my other message about the "lift capacity"...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Small [mailto:zodiacjeff(at)msn.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Facet pumps
Tidbits from the archives:
http://www.facet-purolator.com/electri.htm
>the 40171, the 40105, and the 40106. The differences fall into
two distinct categories that relate to pump-off forward and reverse leakage
flows.
The Facet 40171 pump is the type sold by Stoddard-Hamilton Aircraft , Inc.
(360-495-8533) to serve as a transfer pump for transferring fuel from the
auxiliary tanks to the main tanks. The 40171 costs about $54 each. The
Facet 40105 and 40106 are sold by numerous suppliers, including Aircraft
Spruce and Specialties (800-824-1930 (west); 800-831-2949 (east)), Chief
Aircraft (800-447-3408), Wicks
(800-221-9425) and others and typically used in the Zenith and other
aircraft for transferring fuel from an aux tank to a header tank. The
40105/6 pumps cost about $28 to $32 each.
Functionally, there is a world of difference between the
40171 and the 40105 / 40106.
All three model pumps have a "lift" capability and can draw fuel from at
least 3-feet. All three move the fuel at about 0.5 gal/min, or about 30
gal/h when they are operating.
In the "OFF" state, however, the differences between the pumps become more
obvious. At a 30-inch head pressure, the 40105 and 40106 pumps have a
forward "leak" rate or drain rate of about 15 gal/h. These pumps thus flow
freely in the forward direction at about one-hald the pumping rate.... In
the reverse direction, the 40105 and 40106 drain backwards at between 0.05
ga/h to about 0.25 gal/hr, with a mean value over a dozen tests with four
different pumps of about 0.1 gal/h. (As a point
of reference, 0.1 gal/h is about one drop per second). Compare these
numbers to the 40171 pump, which showed no detectable leakage in the "OFF"
state in either the forward or reverse directions over several hours.
The utilization implications are pretty clear: If your "from" tank is higher
that the "to" tank, you need the 40171 pump to prevent your "from" fuel from
draining into your "to" tank. If your "from" and "to" tanks are at about
the same level, you should still use the 40171 pump to prevent an exchange
of fuel. If your "from" tank is lower than your "to" tank, you can use any
of the pumps described, but if you use the 40105 or 40106, you should use a
check valve on the outlet side of the pump to present your "to" tank from
draining back into your "from" tank. Wicks lists a check valve at about
$24, so cost-wise the 40171 may represent a better bargin because it has the
checks built into them....
You can identify the model by looking at the mounting tab on the pump. One
side of the mounting slot will be stamped "40" and the other side will be
stamped "105", 106" or "171".
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Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I would agree and if I had built an XL and saw that arrangement ZAC and I
would would be having some very pointed conversations.
I know folks who do suck up to the engine from the wing...but its not good
practice definatly.
I know of folks who have seen fuel boiling in their sight tubes on a hot
day....
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: wizard-24(at)juno.com [mailto:wizard-24(at)juno.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: pump placement
> The moral is never suck fuel uphill or through a resistance such as
> a filter, small hoses or uphill. Its OK at cruise 'cos your not near
> the ground and not sucking very hard.
>
> The one time you boil the fuel on takeoff could be your last.
Given that info, it seems amazing to me that ZAC would show a different
arrangement on their XL plans -- which clearly shows the pumps way down the
line (after the selector valve in the cockpit and the gascolators). This
means the pump would be sucking fuel for quite some distance (and I'm
referring to models without a header tank), and uphill at that. And of
course, if your primary pump is an engine driven pump, you have no choice
but to suck fuel due to where the pump is located.
Very confusing to a newbie like myself. You want to trust ZAC (and quite
frankly, that's how I built my plane), but the points made here seem very
valid. What to do, what to do. Changing everything now would be problematic,
since getting at the tank outlets (and running wiring to the
pumps) would be difficult for the outboard (extended range) tanks.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web
up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
In a message dated 7/23/03 2:00:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net writes:
> The fuel lines are attached to the tanks at the lowest point on the tanks.
> Because of the dihedral of the wings, the fuel lines run downhill to the
> gascolater at the center of the fuselage. If you put your fuel pumps on the
> cabin floor directly forward of the gascolater, they will not have to suck
> at all, they will be gravity fed
In this arangement do you need 2 fuel pumps. It seems that you could have the
tee then the one pump then the gascolater. How uneven is the flow of fuel
from left and right tanks and do we need 2 pumps to control this? I realize the
need for redundancy but the mechanical pump and the electric have been working
in production aircraft for years. Besides, Zac only puts one pump in their XL
kit.
Jack Russell
xl - jabiru
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> Because of the dihedral of the wings, the fuel lines run downhill to
> the gascolater at the center of the fuselage.
I suppose that's true NOW, but if you built from the original XL plans
and had to make the changes as indicated in the revised drawings, it
unfortunately doesn't work that way. I guess I'm probably in the minority
in that situation.
> don't have a selector valve, I don't see
> any need for one. I have a shutoff valve in the line from each tank.
A selector valve may not be needed for only two tanks, but with 4
independently plumbed tanks (per ZAC's plans), I think it's wise to have
one from a fuel management standpoint. And even still --- the plans do
show the console mounted selector valve, and the pump(s) after it. For
those of us that don't know any better -- that's the way we build 'em. I
really think ZAC should rethink this issue if it's as dangerous to suck
fuel as is being described on this list, or maybe I'm just being
over-cautious. It would be interesting to hear from anyone else on the
list that is sucking fuel and has been flying for a while.
Anyway, I guess if nothing else, it's all part of the archives for
builders to dig up IF they think to do so.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
pondering how to solve this fuel dilemma.....gets might hot here in
SoCal.
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> In this arangement do you need 2 fuel pumps. How uneven is the flow of
> fuel from left and right tanks and do we need 2 pumps to control this?
My concern would be that if one tank got a little low on fuel, and if the
plane was banked in the opposite direction, you might risk sucking air
from the high tank if you only had the one pump?
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Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Exactly!
Even if you have two pumps (one at the root of each tank) and you are coming
in at a 20kt crosswind on minimal fuel as I was two weekends ago you had
better not put the thing into a slip until your over the threashold.
Not a problem as long as you remember though.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: wizard-24(at)juno.com [mailto:wizard-24(at)juno.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: pump placement
> In this arangement do you need 2 fuel pumps. How uneven is the flow
> of
> fuel from left and right tanks and do we need 2 pumps to control
> this?
My concern would be that if one tank got a little low on fuel, and if the
plane was banked in the opposite direction, you might risk sucking air from
the high tank if you only had the one pump?
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web
up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
Very good point, Frank. Although, in a slip, the high wing tank will be able
to supply fuel to the gascolator. Big question is.......will air from the
low wing tank be pumped to the gascolator, creating an air bubble which
could stop fuel supply to the engine?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward T. Jeffko" <riovista(at)bossig.com> |
With all the discussion on wing tanks, I wonder, would it be feasable to use
the wing innards as a mold for a composite tank? Maybe built in place
tanks?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet fuel pumps |
My header tank, bought from another builder when he built the fuselage, has
3 openings at the bottom, and 3 at the top! Seems like a hell of a lot of
openings to use....or plug!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pump placement |
--- CLOJAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/23/03 2:00:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net writes:
>
>
> > The fuel lines are attached to the tanks at the lowest point on the
> tanks.
> > Because of the dihedral of the wings, the fuel lines run downhill
> to the
> > gascolater at the center of the fuselage. If you put your fuel
> pumps on the
> > cabin floor directly forward of the gascolater, they will not have
> to suck
> > at all, they will be gravity fed
>
> In this arangement do you need 2 fuel pumps. It seems that you could
> have the
> tee then the one pump then the gascolater. How uneven is the flow of
> fuel
> from left and right tanks and do we need 2 pumps to control this? I
> realize the
> need for redundancy but the mechanical pump and the electric have
> been working
> in production aircraft for years. Besides, Zac only puts one pump in
> their XL
> kit.
> Jack Russell
> xl - jabiru
> fuselage
>
In my opinion, here we are stepping in the line betwen redundancy and
KIS... Two pumps, one mechanic and one electric is safe enough,
remember the wise builder will only add lightness and simplicity to
their airplane to increase performance.
If we dont, then we will say that Zenith speed claims are very high :-)
:-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
Subject: Zenith-List: wing tanks
>
> With all the discussion on wing tanks, I wonder, would it be feasable to
use
> the wing innards as a mold for a composite tank? Maybe built in place
> tanks?
>
> Ed
>
Ed,
That's a really keen idea, that could be done by lining the inside surfaces
with a 1/8" skin
of cork, waxed inside and then layup epoxy segments that could be removable
for use as a mold. The rest is
relatively easy if you can work in the stuff.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61(at)birch.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel system design |
Guys, When I see so many messages about fuel systems, I wonder (and worry
somewhat) about the fact that so many builders feel that they must wade
through all of the what-if's, and make tons of decisions (that can be right
or wrong) in order to personally design a fuel system for their airplane. If
you enjoy doing that, and are comfortable with it, then carry on. (:
)
But if you are a builder that "just wants to install a reliable fuel system"
and not be entangled with figuring it out and worrying about it, I suggest
that you first decide whether your fuel system will include or not include a
header tank. Then, remember, locate, or look up in the archives, those
postings from your fellow builders that now have high hours on there planes,
and attest to the reliability of their fuel system. Make sure that the
postings are about the same model of aircraft as yours. If your system will
include a header tank, then find a builder that has attested to the
reliability of his system using a header tank and USE HIS SYSTEM. Likewise
for the system with no header tank. In my humble opinion, you will have far
better probability of success and peace of mind to adapt a PREVIOUSLY PROVEN
system.
Fred
Jabiru 3300 / 601HDS N601LX
Now at 61 hours and heading out to fly my grandson to a Bar-B-Q restaurant
on the field at Paola Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
In a message dated 7/22/2003 9:13:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net writes:
> There's just something about 16 gallons of fuel above
> my lap, springing a leak and spraying the electrical system, and causing a
> fire, that concerns me.
>
> Thanks...Dave
>
Smart thinking.........
I guess I just opened a nasty can of worms.......Eh?
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/23/2003 4:29:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
riovista(at)bossig.com writes:
> With all the discussion on wing tanks, I wonder, would it be feasable to use
> the wing innards as a mold for a composite tank? Maybe built in place
> tanks?
>
> Ed
>
Nothing wrong with turning the space into a wet wing.......Plenty of
airplanes out there that have successfully done so.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/23/2003 5:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
larrymc(at)qconline.com writes:
> Ed,
> That's a really keen idea, that could be done by lining the inside surfaces
> with a 1/8" skin
> of cork, waxed inside and then layup epoxy segments that could be removable
> for use as a mold. The rest is
> relatively easy if you can work in the stuff.
> Larry
>
Why add the extra weight......Wet wing would serve the same purpose.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel system design |
Great idea!
601 HDS non-header tanks
LE wing tanks only
One facet pump at the out board edge of each wing
Independent power supplies to each pump
302 hours
No issues
No engine pump
Frank Soob (Ram engines valve guides that should stay in the heads)
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred or Sandy Hulen [mailto:hulens61(at)birch.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system design
-->
Guys, When I see so many messages about fuel systems, I wonder (and worry
somewhat) about the fact that so many builders feel that they must wade
through all of the what-if's, and make tons of decisions (that can be right
or wrong) in order to personally design a fuel system for their airplane. If
you enjoy doing that, and are comfortable with it, then carry on. (:
)
But if you are a builder that "just wants to install a reliable fuel system"
and not be entangled with figuring it out and worrying about it, I suggest
that you first decide whether your fuel system will include or not include a
header tank. Then, remember, locate, or look up in the archives, those
postings from your fellow builders that now have high hours on there planes,
and attest to the reliability of their fuel system. Make sure that the
postings are about the same model of aircraft as yours. If your system will
include a header tank, then find a builder that has attested to the
reliability of his system using a header tank and USE HIS SYSTEM. Likewise
for the system with no header tank. In my humble opinion, you will have far
better probability of success and peace of mind to adapt a PREVIOUSLY PROVEN
system.
Fred
Jabiru 3300 / 601HDS N601LX
Now at 61 hours and heading out to fly my grandson to a Bar-B-Q restaurant
on the field at Paola Ks.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | New plane moment |
I just picked up my brand new Alarus CH2000 at the factory today. Not quite
as awesome as flying the Zodiac for the first time, but pretty close!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax recommendation |
What does Rotax say about Dexcool?
I also use Redline "WaterWetter" with good results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator cut-out on XL |
I just finished the elevator cut-out and I was surprised to see the note at
the bottom of 6-T-3B that says
"Note: Filler ribs or caps are not used on the sides of the elevator
cutout".
Maybe I'm just second guessing, but the whole thing seems like it would be
awfully flimsy with that area of .016 aluminum dangling out there without
any real support. Is this really Ok? Any comments from anyone?
Bill Howerton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Facet fuel pumps |
Dave
Your header tank might have been intended for a fuel injected engine. Does it look
like this: http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm
Winston Ellis
Ketchum, Idaho
701/Suzuki
Dave Pepper wrote:
>
> My header tank, bought from another builder when he built the fuselage, has
> 3 openings at the bottom, and 3 at the top! Seems like a hell of a lot of
> openings to use....or plug!
>
> Dave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cut-out on XL |
Bill, I've seen Zodiacs with and without filler ribs.
I decided to use them for the looks. Without them, the elevator looks unfinished.
Carlos
--- Bill Howerton wrote:
>
> I just finished the elevator cut-out and I was surprised to see the note at
> the bottom of 6-T-3B that says
> "Note: Filler ribs or caps are not used on the sides of the elevator
> cutout".
>
> Maybe I'm just second guessing, but the whole thing seems like it would be
> awfully flimsy with that area of .016 aluminum dangling out there without
> any real support. Is this really Ok? Any comments from anyone?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cut-out on XL |
Bill:
I completed my elevator just like the plans call for and it is not flimsy.
Stick to the plans is the advice I keep getting. I've seen some photos of
builders who filled in the holes and it looks nice, but nobody has convinced
me it helps in any way, so the choice is yours. Your time may be better
spent continuing with your progress than second-guessing the design. That's
my philosophy.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill(at)Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator cut-out on XL
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:17:24 -0600
I just finished the elevator cut-out and I was surprised to see the note at
the bottom of 6-T-3B that says
"Note: Filler ribs or caps are not used on the sides of the elevator
cutout".
Maybe I'm just second guessing, but the whole thing seems like it would be
awfully flimsy with that area of .016 aluminum dangling out there without
any real support. Is this really Ok? Any comments from anyone?
Bill Howerton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
Ed
I have heard that fiberglass and gasoline don't mix
very well and was advised against making a composite
tank. Has anyone else heard this? I believe that
composite aircraft don't even have composite tanks.
You might want to investigate a little further into
this.
FWIW
David
>
>
> > With all the discussion on wing tanks, I wonder,
> would it be feasable to use
> > the wing innards as a mold for a composite tank?
> Maybe built in place
> > tanks?
> >
> > Ed
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | abc abc <yah67890(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Winston Ellis Suzuki Ch701 |
Hi Winston what Suzuki engine /conversion do you have hp,cc,weight etc how do you
rate it?
Thanks
Tony
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
>
>Ed
>I have heard that fiberglass and gasoline don't mix
>very well and was advised against making a composite
>tank. Has anyone else heard this? I believe that
>composite aircraft don't even have composite tanks.
>You might want to investigate a little further into
>this.
>FWIW
>David
DAVID !! think about every Glasair that has ever been built, ALL have "fiberglas
" tanks. Vinlyester resin is superior to almost anything when it comes to
resisting chemical invasion. I built a fiberglas tank for my boat almost 35
yrs ago from polyester resin which is much less resistant than vinylester and
no leaks as recent a 3 weeks ago. LOW&SLOW John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> ... searching for a different designer next time.
Hmmm -- interesting comment Frank. In reality, how many 4 place kits are
there to choose from that use all alu construction (preferably 'pop' rivets
as I'm still averse to buck-rivets), are simple to build and COMPLETE, will
carry 4 FULL SIZED people (and hopefully some luggage), are rugged enough to
use on backwoods strips (i.e. camping territory)....
I'd be interested in something like this in the future too, so I'm
interested in the results of your search. Right now the only prospects I
have on my list are the 640 and 801.
Regards,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS (antifreeze) |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> The aluminum DOES require some anti-freeze to prevent corrosion, but the
> antifreeze reduces the ability of the coolant to cool the engine.
> Distilled water will carry more heat away from the metal it comes in
> contact with. Antifreeze reduces the amount of heat that the coolant can
> carry away, so you need more coolant to do the same cooling job.
>
> Does that make sense, or am I doing a lousy job of explaining it?
If I'm not mistaken, there's one more practical issue to consider. Water
conducts heat more efficiently when in liquid form, but if it 'boils'
locally (i.e. on an engine hot spot) then the resulting air bubble will not
conduct heat away.
So, the addition of the 'antifreeze' maintains the water in a liquid state
to prevent this.
Yes?
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
Yes that is a good point. It really comes down to what you need. In my case
I was looking for a relatively fast cross country cruiser with good altitude
performance that would suit my low hours as a pilot.
The fact of the pop rivets and simple build were not important in my
selection.
Hence when I found the thing was both not fast and not high I felt cheated.
I then found a lot of other benefits so I actually like the little HDS to
fly. Its interesting my original requirements are still very much big
factors that will affect my decision.
I was talking to a guy at the weekend who spent 17k on a pretty nice 4 place
Comanchi. If the performance claims for the 640 turn out as they did for the
HDS I would think something like this would work out more economically even
if I had to do owner assist maintenance.
Just a thought.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> ... searching for a different designer next time.
Hmmm -- interesting comment Frank. In reality, how many 4 place kits are
there to choose from that use all alu construction (preferably 'pop' rivets
as I'm still averse to buck-rivets), are simple to build and COMPLETE, will
carry 4 FULL SIZED people (and hopefully some luggage), are rugged enough to
use on backwoods strips (i.e. camping territory)....
I'd be interested in something like this in the future too, so I'm
interested in the results of your search. Right now the only prospects I
have on my list are the 640 and 801.
Regards,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)msu.edu> |
David Barth wrote:
>
> Ed
> I have heard that fiberglass and gasoline don't mix
> very well and was advised against making a composite
> tank. Has anyone else heard this? I believe that
> composite aircraft don't even have composite tanks.
> You might want to investigate a little further into
> this.
> FWIW
> David
You can use vinyl esther resign and some epoxies
to lay up fiberglass tanks. It's done all the time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet fuel pumps |
Winston,
My header tank doesn't look like that. It's the standard plans-built tank,
and has barb fittings, 3 out the top, and 3 out the bottom. Looks like it
was set up for flexible fuel hoses to be connected. On the bottom, the
center outlet has a finger screen. The other 2 on the left and right point
downward. On the top, one outlet has a 90 degree elbow to the side, and the
other 2 point straight out toward the instrument panel. I know I can't use
all these outlets, so I was planning on plugging the unused ones, assuming I
retain the header tank.
Maybe one of the top outlets can accomodate a fuel level sender of some
type. And I thought about pumping fuel from the locker tanks into the bottom
outlets since there's more space to work there tan at the top of the tank.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bockius" <bruce(at)whiteantelopesoftware.com> |
| Subject: | Progress Report - N601Z, CH601HDS (antifreeze) |
>
>
> If I'm not mistaken, there's one more practical issue to
> consider. Water conducts heat more efficiently when in
> liquid form, but if it 'boils' locally (i.e. on an engine hot
> spot) then the resulting air bubble will not conduct heat away.
>
> So, the addition of the 'antifreeze' maintains the water in a
> liquid state to prevent this.
>
> Yes?
Maybe not. Actually the most efficient heat transfer in a
forced-convection system happens when "nucleate boiling" occurs. These
are small vapour bubbles that form on the hot surfaces and are then
pushed into the flowing coolant, where they collapse again. This way
the heat-of-vaporization is also removed from the hot surface, which is
significant. You are correct that if the coolant is allowed to boil so
much that it becomes mostly vapour instead of liquid, then you're in
trouble. I think if this were to occur in our systems you'd know it
because the pressure-relief cap would lift.
-Bruce/601HD/Stratus/TDO/375hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net>
> 120 hp is only available for a short period (take-off) but not continuously.
> The continuous maximum power available is 100 hp.
Thanks Ray. I'm not an engines expert but I think this is similarly true for
all engines. They are usually only rated for full throttle/full rpm for a
few moments, then there is a max. cruise rpm setting below that which we are
allowed to use if we don't mind high fuel consumption.
My point was just that the great speeds that the Jabiru 3300 is finally
giving on the Zodiacs, only comes thanks to more 'ooomph' than Zenair
originally speculated -- I mean specified ;-).
Best,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Cabin Heat? |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> On a related subject to all the talk about Rotax coolant: Does the option
> exist to route any of that heat from the Rotax liquid-cooled system through a
> heater core for cabin heat?
I'd be interested in hearing just how effective cabin heat is in anyone's
Zodiac. Seems like there's a lot of wind chill goin' on - could be hard to
keep up with unless someone uses a LOT of insulation and weather stripping
and seals off the flow from the rear fuselage into the cockpit....
I've also seriously considered electrically-heated motorcycle clothing as an
alternative for the days ahead when I actually start doing some winter
flying.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Location |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> My battery a G25 is located at the very aft as it can be.
> Just ahead of the first bulk head in the fuselage.
> Would adjusting my ailerons down a tad have any effect here?
> I suppose i could look at adjusting my horiz. stab as well????
> dave kubassek C-FDSF/XL/0235
Ensuring that the Center of Gravity is in the proper envelope at all times
in flight is critical to proper aircraft handling, as I'm sure you're aware.
If your aircraft is in the proper envelope (i.e. the Weight and Balance),
then that's as is should be and is a different issue than the nose-up
attitude in flight.
If your aircraft NEEDS 20lbs more weight in the tail to make the Weight and
Balance numbers work out better, then why not add some of this in the form
of a heavier battery? At least that way you're getting 'something' (more
cranking power, electrical power) for the weight as opposed to 20 lbs of
dead weight. (Someone else mentioned a tailskid as another idea). Does
Zenair have a specific weight limit for the tail-mounted battery? They
approved my rear battery rack installation but required me to 'beef it up'
with extrusions as opposed to my original idea of 'L's for the frame.
What is your aircraft's center of gravity now? Is it near the forward or
rearward limit?
Once you are sure that the CoG is always correct during a flight, (i.e full
fuel/minimum fuel; 1 small pilot/ 2 BIG pilot/passenger; No baggage/ lots of
baggage; Wing lockers?) ... then the next issue is the attitude at different
speeds, and the amount of control and trim authority you have.
Regards,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax recommendation |
Eric Parlow wrote:
>
>What does Rotax say about Dexcool?
>I also use Redline "WaterWetter" with good results.
>
>
>
Rotax Service Information 3 UL 97 D/E - R1 says, "NOTE: 50 % antifreeze
concentrate with anti-corrosion additives and
50 % water is recommended or an equivalent premixed
coolant. Sufficiently satisfactory results were achieved with
"BASF Glysantin Anticorrosion". This or an equivalent coolant
has to be used.
ATTENTION: Take note of the specifications from the antifreeze producer.
NOTE: If problems are encountered with boiling after engine stop,
increase percentage of antifreeze gradually.
In all cases, antifreeze to water ratios should not exceed the
antifreeze manufacturer's
recommendations. Exceeding the antifreeze manufacturers recommended
ratios can
lead to the formation of particulates in the coolant solution or
inadequate protection
against freezing.
ATTENTION: Particulate formation may be harmful to cooling system
components and may restrict coolant flow to and from
overflow bottle." Further, "Summary
* Use of a brand name of high quality antifreeze with corrosion
inhibiting additives
is recommended for ROTAX 912 and 914 engine series.
* Antifreeze used must be mixed with water as per recommendations of the
antifreeze producer to create a coolant solution suitable for the complete
temperature range of the engine and to provide adequate protection against
freezing.
* Coolant solution should be checked with a densimeter or glycol tester
to verify
protection level.
* Antifreeze to water ratio of 50 / 50 is required in ROTAX 912 and
ROTAX 914 series
engines."
Leo Gates
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax Cabin Heat? |
My heater works great on the soob.
1972 ford pick up heater core with four computer muffin fans on the back. I
run two for low heat and all four for hi.
My heater core circulates water all the time. The radiated heat is not
noticable and avoids the complexity/weight of a heater valve and cable.
I positioned mine above the PX feet...don't want hot coolant on my feet
thank you very much...:)
Frank
601 HDS Stratus with permenantly fixed Ram performance valve guides!
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax Cabin Heat?
> On a related subject to all the talk about Rotax coolant: Does the
> option exist to route any of that heat from the Rotax liquid-cooled
> system through a heater core for cabin heat?
I'd be interested in hearing just how effective cabin heat is in anyone's
Zodiac. Seems like there's a lot of wind chill goin' on - could be hard to
keep up with unless someone uses a LOT of insulation and weather stripping
and seals off the flow from the rear fuselage into the cockpit....
I've also seriously considered electrically-heated motorcycle clothing as an
alternative for the days ahead when I actually start doing some winter
flying.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Composite Airplanes DO have epoxy and glass fuel tanks. If you check around
the gas in your car probably was pumped out of a fibre-glass tank at the
filling station as they don't rust and leak.
My Vari-Eze has a glass tank. Don't know who told you that they don't, but
they are wrong.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing tanks
>
> Ed
> I have heard that fiberglass and gasoline don't mix
> very well and was advised against making a composite
> tank. Has anyone else heard this? I believe that
> composite aircraft don't even have composite tanks.
> You might want to investigate a little further into
> this.
> FWIW
> David
>
> >
> >
> > > With all the discussion on wing tanks, I wonder,
> > would it be feasable to use
> > > the wing innards as a mold for a composite tank?
> > Maybe built in place
> > > tanks?
> > >
> > > Ed
> >
>
> =====
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder
> Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the
wings.
> Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for
inspection.
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bockius" <bruce(at)whiteantelopesoftware.com> |
>
> My Vari-Eze has a glass tank. Don't know who told you that
> they don't, but they are wrong.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Cy, can you use auto gas with the fiberglass tanks? I know West makes a
fuel-proof epoxy, but I suspect they mean av-gas proof. Finding
anything that can withstand auto gas, especially alcohol-containing gas,
seems to be much more difficult.
-Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New plane moment |
| From: | "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston(at)delta.com> |
Congratulations Phil. Did they give you a good deal, since you didn't take them
up on a good deal for a new kit?
Happy Flying,
Jim Weston
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra(at)mindspring.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: New plane moment
I just picked up my brand new Alarus CH2000 at the factory today. Not quite
as awesome as flying the Zodiac for the first time, but pretty close!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
Well....I stand extremely well corrected. I can go
home now since I learned something new. Just wait
until I talk to Gary. So has anyone made any glass or
epoxy tanks for the XL?
David
--- Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Composite Airplanes DO have epoxy and glass fuel
> tanks. If you check around
> the gas in your car probably was pumped out of a
> fibre-glass tank at the
> filling station as they don't rust and leak.
>
> My Vari-Eze has a glass tank. Don't know who told
> you that they don't, but
> they are wrong.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair,
> Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Barth" <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing tanks
>
>
>
> >
> > Ed
> > I have heard that fiberglass and gasoline don't
> mix
> > very well and was advised against making a
> composite
> > tank. Has anyone else heard this? I believe that
> > composite aircraft don't even have composite
> tanks.
> > You might want to investigate a little further
> into
> > this.
> > FWIW
> > David
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > With all the discussion on wing tanks, I
> wonder,
> > > would it be feasable to use
> > > > the wing innards as a mold for a composite
> tank?
> > > Maybe built in place
> > > > tanks?
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > >
> >
> > =====
> > David Barth
> > 601 XL Plansbuilder
> > Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half
> the rear ribs for the
> wings.
> > Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps,
> ailerons and Rudder ready for
> inspection.
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)msu.edu> |
Bruce Bockius wrote:
>
>>
>>My Vari-Eze has a glass tank. Don't know who told you that
>>they don't, but they are wrong.
>>
>>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>>
>>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>
> Cy, can you use auto gas with the fiberglass tanks? I know West makes a
> fuel-proof epoxy, but I suspect they mean av-gas proof. Finding
> anything that can withstand auto gas, especially alcohol-containing gas,
> seems to be much more difficult.
>
There are all sorts of epoxy's that are formulated to
contain all types of fuels. They are formulated as fuel
tank liners, pipeline liners fuel tank sealants etc.
Check out this site.
http://www.jeffcoproducts.com/
Check out this vinyl esther resin product below and it's
appliation.
SW 6910
Vinyl Ester Based Flake Compound
http://www.swancor.com.tw/2-4.htm
The use of vinyl ester resin and epoxys for fuel
tanks is common.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
And what is in autogas that isn't in avgas? If you have a question about
West epoxy, ask them instead of making any assumption. I know I don't know.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bockius" <bruce(at)whiteantelopesoftware.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: wing tanks
>
> >
> > My Vari-Eze has a glass tank. Don't know who told you that
> > they don't, but they are wrong.
> >
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Cy, can you use auto gas with the fiberglass tanks? I know West makes a
> fuel-proof epoxy, but I suspect they mean av-gas proof. Finding
> anything that can withstand auto gas, especially alcohol-containing gas,
> seems to be much more difficult.
>
> -Bruce
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
Polyester is not very resistant to chemicals and the sort of thigs in Mogas
or Avgas. Vinylester is highly resistant and that's what I'm using in my
current build.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | New plane moment |
Seperate companies. I haven't taken them up on a good deal for a kit yet.
I will eventually build another, but with 2 flight schools, and a full time
job as a high school teacher, I won't be starting a new one soon.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Weston, Jim
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New plane moment
Congratulations Phil. Did they give you a good deal, since you didn't take
them up on a good deal for a new kit?
Happy Flying,
Jim Weston
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra(at)mindspring.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: New plane moment
I just picked up my brand new Alarus CH2000 at the factory today. Not quite
as awesome as flying the Zodiac for the first time, but pretty close!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
Kind of a let down when you discover that your Guru isn't perfect isn't
it. At first Gary's word was gods message to me. Then I found a few
errors and later found out that he has to this day never built a
complete airplane. He is still a wise man in my eyes and knows a lot
more then I do , but now I seek a second opinion on a subject.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
Well....I stand extremely well corrected. I can go
home now since I learned something new. Just wait
until I talk to Gary. So has anyone made any glass or
epoxy tanks for the XL?
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 701 for sale anyone? |
I am looking for a used 701 or an uncompleted kit for sale? If anyone has one
or know of one, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
Regards,
Larry Sirmans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com> |
Mark Townsend and I are planning to be there for the
ZAC dinner on Thursday night and spend Friday and
Saturday at the event. I guess we'll see you at
Robins.
David
> > Anyone going to Oshkosh this year? I haven't seen
> any chatter on the
> list.
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
My son and I are going. We'll be walking (OK, after a
few hours of flight :-). So, unless we find someone to
carry us to the ZAC dinner, we may not join.
Michel
--- David Barth wrote:
>
>
> Mark Townsend and I are planning to be there for the
> ZAC dinner on Thursday night and spend Friday and
> Saturday at the event. I guess we'll see you at
> Robins.
> David
>
>
> > > Anyone going to Oshkosh this year? I haven't
> seen
> > any chatter on the
> > list.
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Gang,
I read all the messages on this topic, but I'm still
unclear about bracket requirements for the
extinguisher. I was planning on using a small (1 lb)
2B-C kitchen extinguisher available at Canadian Tire.
This one has a plastic bracket.
My inspector insists that the extinguisher be held in
place by a steel bracket. I don't know how many G's
he wants the bracket to hold, but I tried pushing
pretty hard on that plastic one and it did not fail
(around 20-30 lbs).
Any opinions? If anyone made a steel bracket, please
let me know how you did that.
Michel--installing fuselage fairings outside in my
backyard :-)
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erictauch(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
Hello,
I dont know what a 2B-C unit is, but I remember reading about
a guy who deployed one of those "yellow chalky" types in his
cockpit in flight, and the resulting yellow cloud obscured his
vision for some time.
Be careful about what type you choose... (2B-C ??).
Eric
>
> Hello Gang,
>
> I read all the messages on this topic, but I'm still
> unclear about bracket requirements for the
> extinguisher. I was planning on using a small (1 lb)
> 2B-C kitchen extinguisher available at Canadian Tire.
> This one has a plastic bracket.
>
> My inspector insists that the extinguisher be held in
> place by a steel bracket. I don't know how many G's
> he wants the bracket to hold, but I tried pushing
> pretty hard on that plastic one and it did not fail
> (around 20-30 lbs).
>
> Any opinions? If anyone made a steel bracket, please
> let me know how you did that.
>
> Michel--installing fuselage fairings outside in my
> backyard :-)
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
Not a good choice. Halogen recommended for aircraft use. check it out with
EAA or some other experts. Dry powder extinguishers can raise havoc with
equipment and not good to breath in a confined space
Hal
theplanefolks.net
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> Hello Gang,
>
> I read all the messages on this topic, but I'm still
> unclear about bracket requirements for the
> extinguisher. I was planning on using a small (1 lb)
> 2B-C kitchen extinguisher available at Canadian Tire.
> This one has a plastic bracket.
>
> My inspector insists that the extinguisher be held in
> place by a steel bracket. I don't know how many G's
> he wants the bracket to hold, but I tried pushing
> pretty hard on that plastic one and it did not fail
> (around 20-30 lbs).
>
> Any opinions? If anyone made a steel bracket, please
> let me know how you did that.
>
> Michel--installing fuselage fairings outside in my
> backyard :-)
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
I kind of agree with this. Halon extinguishers are
the norm for aircrafts (except that they are not much
available in Canada now). Some new stuff like FE-36
replace Halon, but they weight twice as much for the
same effectiveness.
I was told that the problem with a Halon extinguisher
in a CH601 is that there is too much ventilation in
this aircraft. Halon absorbs oxygen, which supports
fire (not me speaking as the expert, but that's what's
been told to me by some who pretend to be). So, if
you're in a sealed cabin, then you are also out of O2.
But if there is too much ventilation, the
extinguisher is ineffective. Does this make sense? I
know that when they installed the fire suppression
system (a Halon system) in the computer room of my
previous employer, they sealed the computer room and
pressure tested it.
An extinguisher representative told me that the major
problem with a powder extinguisher will be that it's
gonna produce a cloud that will imper visibility. He
also said that if the canopy is humid, the powder will
stick to it.
So, it seems it may be more convenient to land and
then take care of the fire.... OUCH!
Michel
--- Hal Rozema wrote:
>
>
> Not a good choice. Halogen recommended for aircraft
> use.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
I've been told (by the same "expert" I mentioned in my
previous posting) that the "A" component of an "ABC"
extinguisher is highly corrosive. This would not be
the case with the 2B-C extinguisher I mentioned in my
original posting. Does this make sense?
Still, the powder will create a huge mess.
--- "Leo J. Corbalis"
wrote:
> If that is a pressurized powder type, it will do
> more damage than the fire.
> The powder is corrosive. I have a small Halon type
> that comes with a steel
> mount.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Virgil Zetterlind <vzett(at)edwintech.com> |
My father and I will have our CH-701 on amphib floats
at the seaplane base from Monday - Thursday next week.
We're planning to be at the base most mornings and
evenings.
I'll have my cell-phone # posted on the International
Pavilion message board (near the IAC building on the
flightline) under Portugal if anyone wants to arrange
to see the airplane. It is an early CH701 with the
standard Zenair floats, pneumatic gear, and a Rotax
912A engine.
Virgil and Larry Zetterlind
N701ST
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
A B and C refer to the type (class) of fire that can
be handled by the extinguisher.
A refers to paper, wood or such fires
B refers to fires supported by combustibles
C refers to electrical fires
The number before a letter represents a unit of size
(effectiveness of the extinguisher for a class of
fire).
The dry powder works by insulating the combustible
under fire from the oxygen that supports the fire (to
have a fire, three things are needed, oxygen, a
combustible and heat).
Michel
--- erictauch(at)comcast.net wrote:
>(2B-C ??
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Montgomery <1arm(at)rogers.com> |
Bad luck that the Zenith dinner is the same night as the EAA homebuilder
dinner. I was hoping to attend both.
I'm camping in Scholler all week with a couple of other EAA245 members.
Does Zenith have a shuttle or something to Robbins for people like us
who don't have wheels?
John M.
Ottawa, Canada
601XL plans, rudder done, horiz stab underway.
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
>My son and I are going. We'll be walking (OK, after a
>few hours of flight :-). So, unless we find someone to
>carry us to the ZAC dinner, we may not join.
>
>Michel
>
>
>--- David Barth wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Mark Townsend and I are planning to be there for the
>>ZAC dinner on Thursday night and spend Friday and
>>Saturday at the event. I guess we'll see you at
>>Robins.
>>David
>>
>>
>>>>Anyone going to Oshkosh this year? I haven't
>>>>
>>seen
>>
>>>any chatter on the
>>>list.
>>>
>
>__________________________________
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/25/2003 06:19:24 PM
Anyone going to Oshkosh this year? I haven't seen any chatter on the list.
I'm planning on being there Tuesday the 29th. Weather permitting I'll
fly my '65 172, it'll get me into vintage parking. The builders I was
with at the workshop had talked about going to the Zenith booth and putting
our names on a list so we would know who was there. I will miss the
builders dinner unfortunately. : - {
Craig S.
601 XL
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/25/2003 08:26:24 PM
Halon??? I hope you're not planning on using it to put out a cockpit fire
in-flight!
Halon is essentially the same chemical as freon. CO2 works by
displacing oxygen, halon is an oxidation inhibitor, which is not the same.
It interferes with the oxidation process and is far more effective than CO2
in an enclosed or ventilated area. You do not need to displace all the O2
in your cockpit to put out a fire with halon, it is very effective.
Halon 1301 has low toxicity (1211 does indeed break down into toxic
components) and is recommeded for small aircraft, but it will displace O2,
so once it is used it needs to be ventilated. It is also an A, B, C,
type of extinguisher. NFPA 408 is the standard for aircraft hand portable
fire extingushers and can be viewed online. I'm not a fireman but I do
work on fire suppression systems and am trained in the use of chemical, CO2
and portable halon fire extinguishers. I will have a halon fire
extinguisher in my cockpit.
I do not suggest anyone take my advice without doing the research
yourself. The proper fire suppression equipment too important not to make
an informed decision (especially at 12,000').
Craig S.
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net> |
> When you sign up for the dinner at Zenith's booth note that you need a
> ride on the sheet and sometimes you can luck into one. I need a ride as
> well.
Marcia and I will be attending Oshkosh and staying in the dorms. We will
have a rental car. When I register for the builder's dinner I'll check for
anyone who needs a ride. Please leave me a way to contact you. A cell
phone number would be great. I'll be able to take 2 or 3. And I multiple
trips may be OK too.
Jeff Davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
Hello, listers
I just received this newsletter from ZAC, and thought it would be of interested,
in particular:
1) Air Venture info
2) Dual sticks for the XL!
############################
From: info(at)zenithair.com
Subject: Zodiac Kit Aircraft Update
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:53:27 -0700
ZODIAC Enthusiasts:
We're off to the annual EAA Airventure fly-in (Oshkosh, WI - July 29 - August 4).
Once
again, we'll be located in the North Aircraft Display (booths 424, 425, 430 & 431)
area at
Airventure and look forward to the opportunity of meeting with you and showing
you the
aircraft. Designer Chris Heintz has "forum" lectures scheduled daily during AirVenture
(see below for schedule).
Our popular annual Builders' Dinner has been scheduled for Thursday, July 31.
Sign up
for the dinner at the Zenith Aircraft booth.
For complete details:
http://www.zenithair.com/news/oshkosh2003.html
We're introducing two new ZODIAC XL features at AirVenture: Dual Control Sticks
Option
and the Tail-Wheel (taildragger) Gear Configuration. The Dual Control Sticks Option
is
available to builders wanting to equip their ZODIAC kitplane with dual sticks instead
of
the single center stick. The trademark Heintz Y-stick has been popular for more
than 20
years now in many Heintz designs, but some pilots have indicated a preference for
more
conventional dual control sticks. Complete Details:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/update.html
Many industry insiders tell us to expect the FAA to announce some concrete news
about the
progress of its Sport Pilot license proposal. For up-to-date news about the new
license
and aircraft category:
http://www.sportpilot.org
Also coming up this summer:
12th Annual Zenith Aircraft Co. OPEN HANGAR DAY:
Saturday, August 23 at the Zenith Aircraft factory in Mexico, Missouri.
Details: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2003.html
Our factory workshops continue to be very popular with new kit builders, and typically
fill up a month in advance. We've added a second workshop for the month of August.
The
workshop is held right at our factory in Mexico, Missouri, and allows participants
to gain
hands-on building experience, tour the factory, and fly in the ZODIAC! At the
workshop,
you start actual construction of your ZODIAC by building the vertical tail section
(rudder). If you can't attend a factory workshop, we can send the complete Rudder
Started Kit
for just $300.00. Workshop space is limited so register early to reserve your space!
Next available workshop dates: August 14 & 15 and September 25 & 26, 2003
http://www.zenithair.com/workshop.htm
Photos and New Builder Completions: Check out our new photo galleries to see just
some
of the most recent ZODIAC kit completions: For the latest additions from the past
few
weeks, go to:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo59.html
Current ZODIAC kit availability: Delivery lead time is currently 5 weeks for complete
kit orders, and about 4 weeks for component kit orders.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html
If you don't already have a copy of our complete Information Kit, we invite you
to order
your copy today - it contains over 50 pages of detailed information, photos and
illustrations about building your own ZODIAC kit aircraft. The $35 kit also includes
a
professional Demo Video. To order your packet, call us at 573-581-9000 (Mon-Fri
8-5 central); or
order online from our secure server:
http://www.zenithair.com/onlinestore/info-order-zodiac.html
Feel free to contact us should we be able to provide you with any additional information
about building and flying your ZODIAC kit airplane.
ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY
Tel: 573-581-9000 (Mon - Fri., 8-5 Central)
Fax: 573-581-0011
http://www.zenithair.com
Write us at:
Zenith Aircraft Company
Mexico Memorial Airport, PO Box 650
Mexico, Missouri, 65265 USA
////
Presentations by Chris Heintz at EAA Oshkosh AirVenture:
7/29 - 11:30 AM - 12:45 PM - Light Aircraft Riveting and Sheet Metal Construction
7/30 - 1:00 PM - 2:15 PM - Design For High Lift and S.T.O.L. Performance
7/31 - 2:30 PM - 3:00 PM - Designing Light Aircraft For Performance And Efficiency
(LSA)
8/1 - 11:30 AM - 12:45 PM - Basics Of Light Aircraft Riveting
8/2 - 11:30 AM - 12:45 PM - Riveting and Sheet Metal Construction For First Time
Builders
Check actual program for location and any last minute changes or updates.
http://www.airventure.org/forums/presenter.asp?EventID=12&PresenterID=570
This message is sent as a service to ZODIAC enthusiasts by Zenith Aircraft Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lost my medical....! |
Well, It's official. The flight surgeon has formally told me I'm not to fly.
Due to my recent surgeries. Also due to the fact that I'm on Cummadin.
(Hyper-coagular disorder)
They don't think that I will quallify for a waiver.
The appeal proccesscould take 6 months to a year. So I've decided to sell my
plane. Perhaps build an XL and hope that the sport pilot classification is
made into a rule.
I will be posting the airplanes specs and my asking price in a couple of
days. I hope to find her a good home.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lunch w/ Chris & Mattieu Heintz |
I ended up having lunch with Chris & Mattieu Heintz today. They were both
down at the AMD factory, and I was getting some maintenance done on my fleet
of Alarus CH2000's.
I think LSA is going to be huge for Zenith & AMD. I'm hoping to get some
Zodiac XL's for my flight school once LSA is passed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Lost my medical....! |
John, Sorry to hear about the medical. But I have a question for you.
Instead of building a whole new plane like the XL ( although there are
many reasons for doing so) why not just build a set of HD wings for your
plane or trade someone your HDS wings for HD one's From my understanding
the 601HD is a shoe in for the sport plane category.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
Alma, Ontario
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Lost my medical....!
Well, It's official. The flight surgeon has formally told me I'm not to
fly.
Due to my recent surgeries. Also due to the fact that I'm on Cummadin.
(Hyper-coagular disorder)
They don't think that I will quallify for a waiver.
The appeal proccesscould take 6 months to a year. So I've decided to
sell my
plane. Perhaps build an XL and hope that the sport pilot classification
is
made into a rule.
I will be posting the airplanes specs and my asking price in a couple of
days. I hope to find her a good home.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/25/03 6:38 PM, "Carlos Sa" wrote:
> 1) Air Venture info
> 2) Dual sticks for the XL!
>
Roger from ZAC told me at Arlington that the tail dragger option will be
able to be retrofitted to existing XL.
Ordered the dual stick on-line today!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
| From: | wizard-24(at)juno.com |
> I just received this newsletter from ZAC
What the heck is that newsletter? Never heard that ZAC offers one via
email, and I've beena builders for almost 4 years. And -- if they're set
up that way, why wouldn't they use that media to update builders on
changes/updates to plans, etc? Maybe someone can bring that up at the
builders dinner at Osh....
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/25/03 9:42 PM, "wizard-24(at)juno.com" wrote:
>
>
>> I just received this newsletter from ZAC
I signed on through the builder web page registration. If you go to their
web page for your model airplane (go to
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/index.html for the XL for example) and
you'll see a link on the left for "Builders On the Net". Click that link
and register for access. Once your registered then you'll be able to access
the newsletter registration.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
It's a newsletter that ANYONE can sign up for, both owners/builders and
prospective buyers. Basically it highlights what's been going on at ZAC,
links to current photos, next rudder workshops, etc.
Mark
601XL N996XL (reserved)
Tail finished, flaps and ailerons finished,
still scratching head on first wing.
>>What the heck is that newsletter? .......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> The 40106 pump generates more pressure than the 105. I mistakenly had a 105
> in one of my wing tanks (wint tank direct to engine via the facet, no other
> pumps) and the pressure would drop to zero psi on the guage at full throttle
> running just this pump. I never see the 106's drop below 3 psi.
One more point of interest regarding pumps and plumbing...
I had the more powerful 45gph Facet on my firewall to play the role of
'engine pump' (i.e. no mechanical pump on my engine). I have a Facet 105/6?
at each fuel tank for positive pressure/balancing.
I discovered that with both the wing pumps AND the firewall pump on, my fuel
line pressure was adding up to more than the carburettor limit of 5 psi.
I've replaced the 45gph Facet on the firewall with a third 105/6 Facet and
now the system operates as originally intended - i.e. all pumps on full time
except for balancing (if required).
Moral of the story: take into account the adding of pressures for pumps
mounted in series.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
...
> I was told that the problem with a Halon extinguisher
> in a CH601 is that there is too much ventilation in
> this aircraft. Halon absorbs oxygen, which supports
> fire (not me speaking as the expert, but that's what's
> been told to me by some who pretend to be). So, if
> you're in a sealed cabin, then you are also out of O2.
> But if there is too much ventilation, the
> extinguisher is ineffective. Does this make sense?
No, it doesn't match my experience with Halon Extinguishers. Airliners in
Canada (and the world?) are still equipped with Halon 1211. I have
conducted training courses putting out actual fires (much larger than
anything I ever expect to see (and survive!) inside a Zodiac. The Halon
knocked the fire down almost immediately. It doesn't have to KEEP oxygen
away from the fire for a long time to BREAK the chain reaction.
We were doing this training outside with the fire set inside a typical
airline galley unit with the door removed - i.e. highly ventilated. The
fire was lit (by a professional fireman btw!) and given a few seconds to
grow. Then the trainee would move in and attack the base of the flame with a
sweeping motion. One or two sweeps (i.e. a couple of seconds) and the fire
was out.
Yes, Halon produces toxic fumes so it is important to ensure ADEQUATE
VENTILATION ASAP after discharge. Given the ventilation characteristics of
the Zodiac (mine at least ;-), I think Halon would work very well and with a
vent or two open immediately after use, should not provide any worse 'side
effects' than THE FIRE itself!! ;-)
My opinion only fwiw.
BTW Michel - where did you purchase your Halon extinguisher? In Montreal? I
need one. Thanks,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
...
> (to
> have a fire, three things are needed, oxygen, a
> combustible and heat).
Some extinguishers work by 'smothering' the fire (i.e. dry chemical powder);
some work by reducing the components below their 'flash point' temperature
(i.e. water), and others work by instantaneously reacting with the heat to
produce a chemical reaction that momentarily absorbs the oxygen and breaks
the chain reaction (i.e Halon).
Or so I've been taught... fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
Ray- Was at Mexico, MO yesterday. Here are a couple of pix regarding new
stuff Al Young- 601xl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 7/26/03 6:43 AM, "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net> wrote:
> Here are a couple of pix regarding new stuff
Pics (or any email attachment) can't be passed through the list (that is
what photoshare is for). I saw what is posted on the website though (it is
in the update section for the XL). Thanks anyway!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
List,
It is true that most commercial aircraft us Halon for fire suppression, but
there is one major difference between passenger aircraft and most Zodiac's out
there -- Oxygen system. If you have an oxygen system built in, Halon away.
If you do not, you run a significant risk of hypoxia and losing consciousness.
The idea with halon is to displace oxygen element from the fire triangle.
The problem is that you displace oxygen from the lungs as well. If you are talented
enough to hold your breath long enough for the fire to go out, you will
still have to vventilateshortly thereafter and run the risk of a rre flashwith
little or no agent available for suppression.
IMHO - There are non corrosive dry chemical fire extinguishers out there -
but if there were not, I would much rather replace my entire electrical system
due to corrosion than lose consciousness in flight.
Check out this website for agent information.
http://www.alarm-fire-extinguishers.com/agents.html
Check out what this one says about Halon
http://www.rvaa.com/springwebflash2003.php
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Schallgren(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flight After Coumadin |
John says:
"Well, It's official.=A0 The flight surgeon has formally told me I'm not to
fly.
Due to my recent surgeries.=A0 Also due to the fact that I'm on Cummadin.
(Hyper-coagular disorder)
They don't think that I will quallify for a waiver.
The appeal proccesscould take 6 months to a year.=A0 So I've decided to sell my
plane.=A0 Perhaps build an XL and hope that the sport pilot classification is
made into a rule."
Ten years ago I started taking coumadin after a double bypass and
installation of a plastic aortic valve. Nine years ago I passed my flight=20physical
and
have every year since. So, it can be done. However, it is an expensive
process and requires a flight surgeon who specializes in difficult Special
Issances as well as a Cardiologist who is familiar with FAA medical requirements.
A special trip to OKC to meet with the Special Issuance people also can be
very helpful. As they told me after doing it the hard way "Why didn't you=20call
us at first, remember we're here to help you".
My plan, should I lose my medical, is to build HD wings for our 601 HDS and
fly on my driver's license.
Good Luck on whatever course you choose.
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
Thanks a lot! Good post. Actual experience is always
welcome and often more useful than theory.
I did not purchase the extinguisher yet... I went to
Safety First and they don't sell Halon anymore. They
sell a replacement that contains FE-36. To get the
same capability as a 1lb Halon extinguisher, you need
to buy a 2.5lbs FE-36 unit, however.
I'm going to Osh and I hope to find one there.
Michel
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
> No, it doesn't match my experience with Halon
> Extinguishers....
> BTW Michel - where did you purchase your Halon
> extinguisher? In Montreal? I
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
The important part in using any fire stiguisher is to attack the base
of the fire. Is useless to handle the stinguisher like a mosquito
spray (all over the place), I know it gets very hot, but get as close
as possible to reach that base of the flame, if is not possible, then
is a job for the professional firemen, get as far as you can, you will
not be able to control it...
I important to reach all the base, any fire left will get it back to
maximum fire is seconds.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
>
> > From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
> ...
> > I was told that the problem with a Halon extinguisher
> > in a CH601 is that there is too much ventilation in
> > this aircraft. Halon absorbs oxygen, which supports
> > fire (not me speaking as the expert, but that's what's
> > been told to me by some who pretend to be). So, if
> > you're in a sealed cabin, then you are also out of O2.
> > But if there is too much ventilation, the
> > extinguisher is ineffective. Does this make sense?
>
> No, it doesn't match my experience with Halon Extinguishers.
> Airliners in
> Canada (and the world?) are still equipped with Halon 1211. I have
> conducted training courses putting out actual fires (much larger than
> anything I ever expect to see (and survive!) inside a Zodiac. The
> Halon
> knocked the fire down almost immediately. It doesn't have to KEEP
> oxygen
> away from the fire for a long time to BREAK the chain reaction.
>
> We were doing this training outside with the fire set inside a
> typical
> airline galley unit with the door removed - i.e. highly ventilated.
> The
> fire was lit (by a professional fireman btw!) and given a few seconds
> to
> grow. Then the trainee would move in and attack the base of the flame
> with a
> sweeping motion. One or two sweeps (i.e. a couple of seconds) and the
> fire
> was out.
>
> Yes, Halon produces toxic fumes so it is important to ensure ADEQUATE
> VENTILATION ASAP after discharge. Given the ventilation
> characteristics of
> the Zodiac (mine at least ;-), I think Halon would work very well and
> with a
> vent or two open immediately after use, should not provide any worse
> 'side
> effects' than THE FIRE itself!! ;-)
>
> My opinion only fwiw.
>
> BTW Michel - where did you purchase your Halon extinguisher? In
> Montreal? I
> need one. Thanks,
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caspainhower(at)aep.com |
07/26/2003 07:09:03 PM
> I would much rather replace my entire electrical system
> due to corrosion than lose consciousness in flight.
I would be more worried about the corrosion in my lungs or trying to see
thru a cloud of chemical dust. The FAA and NFPA recommend halon,
preferably 1301 as it produces fewer toxic by-products, for small aircraft.
The amount needed to extinguish a cockpit fire is not sufficient to render
one unconscious, vs. CO2 for example (according to everything I have read).
Because Halon is similar to freon it will not be available soon, so if that
is your choice you should be buying it soon. Here is another link
specifically dealing with small aircraft firefighting.
Craig
http://www.h3r.com/products/cockpit_fe.htm
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight After Coumadin |
In a message dated 7/26/2003 12:12:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Schallgren(at)aol.com writes:
> My plan, should I lose my medical, is to build HD wings for our 601 HDS
> and
> fly on my driver's license.
>
> Good Luck on whatever course you choose.
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jabiru 3300
>
Those are my thoughts exactly.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd(at)thegateway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ZAC newsletter - cool stuff! |
In the Newsletter, I have found some very critical changes recommended by
Chris H. For example a "Z" stiffener at the top rear of the 701 cabin, and
good notes on brake pedal geometry plus others I suggest that a builder
should get all the past news letters and review them. Some of the older
ones may not apply to the CH701SP.
Chuck D.
N701TX
18 hrs so far and all is well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott and Valeree Stout <the_stouts(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | 801: Rear Fuselage...Squaring Forward HT Frames Horizontally |
and
Vertically
Evenin' Everyone...
I am at the point of installing the rear fuselage HT Frames on my
801...Specifically, the forward HT frame, with a level laid acrossed the
top of top, left and right longerons I can get them level. When I lay
another level vertically against the outside skin I am unable to get the
top and bottom longerons level because the HT frame is too snug and
won't allow the top longeron to be moved inward to be over the top on
the bottom longeron and thus level in that plane. Have others had this
problem? If so, what was the resolution?
Thanx in advance for any help...
-Scott
Also, if the other 801 builder using a mazda rotary is out there, please
contact me as I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the
engine to work, that is without going plugs-up, using a 200mm thrust
line....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
ACSpruce has them
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot! Good post. Actual experience is always
> welcome and often more useful than theory.
>
> I did not purchase the extinguisher yet... I went to
> Safety First and they don't sell Halon anymore. They
> sell a replacement that contains FE-36. To get the
> same capability as a 1lb Halon extinguisher, you need
> to buy a 2.5lbs FE-36 unit, however.
>
> I'm going to Osh and I hope to find one there.
>
> Michel
>
> --- Grant Corriveau wrote:
> > No, it doesn't match my experience with Halon
> > Extinguishers....
> > BTW Michel - where did you purchase your Halon
> > extinguisher? In Montreal? I
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> http://www.h3r.com/products/cockpit_fe.htm
It's made by Incendex International, Inc. of Montreal, Canada,
Yes, an excellent article.
I'll let the list know if I can track down this company/distributor.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com>
> It is true that most commercial aircraft us Halon for fire suppression, but
> there is one major difference between passenger aircraft and most Zodiac's out
> there -- Oxygen system. If you have an oxygen system built in, Halon away.
The 'oxygen system' in a commercial airliner is NEVER used in conjunction
with cabin smoke/fire. It is for depressurization problems ONLY. In fact,
at lower altitudes, cabin air is recirculated through the system. Also, as
you can imagine, in case of cabin fires, the last thing you want is to have
more oxygen added to the mix.
The Halon extinguishers are intended to be used in relatively enclosed
areas, with ventilation added as much as possible as soon as the fire has
been dealt with.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
A Google search turned up this press release regarding Halon replacement:
----------------------------------------------------
http://www.newswire.ca/releases/May2002/24/c8977.html
Attention Business Editors:
Ansul, DuPont Fluoroproducts Present First Non-Ozone-Depleting Fire
Extinguisher For Aircraft
New Product Receives Commendation from Halon Alternatives Research Corp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Mackie <derekmackie(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Fire Extinguishers |
Here are the links for the regs for installation in
Canada. FAA regs are similar. Amature (Experimental)
aircraft must be equipped with a fire extinguisher
that complies with them.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/html_e/doc/nav-2200.htm
(click on the link for chapter 551.400)
and:
FAA AC 20-42C,
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/1ab39b4ed563b08985256a35006d56af/cf2f4f1406354490862569ad00777471/$FILE/AC20-42C.pdf
Cerified light aircraft in Canada are typically
delivered with 2B-C extinguishers due to the cost vs
Halon. (ie 2B-C and Halon both comply, but Halon can
cost 3x as much)
Derek Mackie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extinguisher - Ansul distributors in Canada |
Grant, I did a bit more searching, and found that the manufacturer (Ansul) has
many distributors
in Canada. See list here:
http://www.ansul.com/distributor/DistribIntResult.asp?CountryID=Can
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
> A Google search turned up this press release regarding Halon replacement:
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.newswire.ca/releases/May2002/24/c8977.html
>
> Attention Business Editors:
>
> Ansul, DuPont Fluoroproducts Present First Non-Ozone-Depleting Fire
> Extinguisher For Aircraft
>
> New Product Receives Commendation from Halon Alternatives Research Corp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> |
List
Halon is much more destructive to the environment than typical refrigerants.
If I remember back to my AC&R days, R-111 is the basis for measurement at
an ODP (Ozone Depletion Potential) of 1. R-12 (A chlorofluorocarbon) has an ODP
of something like 1.7. That is why it has been almost completely phased out
by R-134A. Halon has an ODP of 10! Nasty stuff to the Ozone layer. I thought
it was already supposed to be phased out - So if you want it, better get it
now.
You definitely have to shop around for a good chemical extinguisher. One
of the websites I referenced in an earlier post listed PKP (purple K powder or
Potassium Bicarbonate) as non corrosive. Not true. We used them aboard ship,
but never for electrical panels. They are terribly corrosive for wires and
connectors.
FWIW - My potpourri of useless information
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Stratus valve guides |
I'm hoping that I could get some help from the Stratus guy's here and Ron
from Ram Performance. I wanted to check my valve guides so I pulled a
rocker off and took some pictures and posted them on airsoob. Use
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/files/ and go to Gary K's Pelican or
go right to the pictures at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/files/Gary%20K%27s%20EA-81%20Pelican/v
alve%20guide/ (note wrapped address).
I'm assuming that these are the stock pressed-in guides vs. the newer
grooved and clipped style. I'd like to take this discussion off-line
instead of bothering the list here so I'll collect a few addresses and
resend this to a "Stratus group". If you'd like to help out, please respond
to me and I'll add to the list.
Thanks,
Gary Krysztopik
Pelican PL w/Stratus EA-81 subaru
97.459% complete
Newport, R.I.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Alberti" <daberti(at)execpc.com> |
Halon is destructive to ozone, How many fire extinguishers have you popped
in the last 10 years! Halon kills fire at the ionization level, you don't
have to see it (the fire) just point where it may be and it will knock it
dead! It's my extinguisher of choice and in my plane.
PPK goes back to the WWII days, It was the only agent capable (then) of
extinguishing a magnesium fire, and there was plenty of that in military
planes.
Dave
" Halon is much more destructive to the environment than typical
refrigerants. If I remember back to my AC&R days, R-111 is the basis for
measurement at an ODP (Ozone Depletion Potential) of 1. R-12 (A
chlorofluorocarbon) has an ODP of something like 1.7. That is why it has
been almost completely phased out by R-134A. Halon has an ODP of 10! Nasty
stuff to the Ozone layer. I thought it was already supposed to be phased
out - So if you want it, better get it now.
I referenced in an earlier post listed PKP (purple K powder or Potassium
Bicarbonate) as non corrosive. Not true. We used them aboard ship, but
never for electrical panels. They are terribly corrosive for wires and
connectors.
FWIW - My potpourri of useless information
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich" <rbauer(at)INTERGATE.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: 801: Rear Fuselage...Squaring Forward HT Frames Horizontally |
and Vertically
Hey Scott, the HT frames don't make the side skins vertical. It's been a
while since I worked on that area but I believe the top longerons come out
to be wider than the bottom. You can double check this with the width of the
attachments on the horizontal stabilizer... if you built it already. If you
interested, I have a site that is a duplicate of my building log. Click the
fuselage button at the top, then click the "NEXT" button once & you will see
a pic of how the tail looks completed.
Rich
http://www.firstflightbbs.org/CH801
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott and Valeree Stout" <the_stouts(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 801: Rear Fuselage...Squaring Forward HT Frames
Horizontally and Vertically
>
> Evenin' Everyone...
>
> I am at the point of installing the rear fuselage HT Frames on my
> 801...Specifically, the forward HT frame, with a level laid acrossed the
> top of top, left and right longerons I can get them level. When I lay
> another level vertically against the outside skin I am unable to get the
> top and bottom longerons level because the HT frame is too snug and
> won't allow the top longeron to be moved inward to be over the top on
> the bottom longeron and thus level in that plane. Have others had this
> problem? If so, what was the resolution?
>
> Thanx in advance for any help...
>
> -Scott
>
> Also, if the other 801 builder using a mazda rotary is out there, please
> contact me as I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the
> engine to work, that is without going plugs-up, using a 200mm thrust
> line....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
Hi folks,
anybody tried some mild acrobatics such as loops and aileron rolls with the 601
HDS? How are you doing it entry speeds, etc.)?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | In-flight adjustable propeller |
Hi folks,
thinking about a new propeller for the 601 HDS (with Rotax 912). What type of in-flight
adjustable propellers are used? What's the experience with those types?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich" <rbauer(at)INTERGATE.COM> |
Where are other 801 builders putting the gascolator? According to the plans,
it's either on the fierwall wich is higher than the lowest point of the
fuselage or under the rear of the front seats, which IS the lowest point of
the fuselage. But the plans also have the gascolator in this location
sticking way out underneath the belly. I have a center console for the fuel
selector & primer line & I would like to put the gascolator inside, center
of fuselage, just in front of the control stick (with clearance of course).
Has anyone put it on the firewall without water accumulating somewhere else
before it?
Rich
801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Scratch built wing tanks |
Hello, all
I'll be building the wing tanks (601 HD) in the coming weeks, and I have a question:
How have you built the sides? Did you make a forming block smaller than the nose
ribs forming
block by 3 mm (1/8") all around (to allow for the cork thickness)? Or...?
Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD
Tail feathers done, wing spars done, working on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson(at)ucnsb.net> |
Have done spins and rolls..sorry, didn't pay that much attention to
A/S..just put nose down, picked up some speed, nose up and full
aileron..goes thru nicely..goes into spins and recovers,easily..fun..haven't
tried a loop yet.. Seems I remember you going for a flight with me several
years back..FLA.
Jackie..N5JZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Acrobatics
>
> Hi folks,
>
> anybody tried some mild acrobatics such as loops and aileron rolls with
the 601 HDS? How are you doing it entry speeds, etc.)?
>
> Thanks
>
> Thilo Kind
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Randy Stout ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Randy Stout
Subject: 601 POH in Word format
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/n282rs@sbcglobal.net.07.27.03/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Brian Unruh ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Brian Unruh
Subject: 701 False Ribs
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/RURUNY@aol.com.07.27.2003/index.html
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Dave Kubassek ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Dave Kubassek
Subject: First flight of C-FDSF
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [ Randy Stout ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
I checked out the 601 POH. It shows data for the UL version only. I also
noticed that the maximum load factor is stated to be +4/-2 G's. I thought
the 601 was designed to withstand +6/-6 G's!
Any comments about this?
Thanks...Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Frank Darby ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
When I asked Chris about aerobatics, he recommended 130 mph for max entry
speed for the 601 HDS. For a 701 call Canada!
Leo Corbalis
> anybody tried some mild acrobatics such as loops and aileron rolls with
the 601 HDS? How are you doing it entry speeds, etc.)?
>
> Thanks
>
> Thilo Kind
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight adjustable propeller |
----- Original Message ----- >
> thinking about a new propeller for the 601 HDS (with Rotax 912). What type
of in-flight adjustable propellers are used? What's the experience with
those types?
> Thanks
> Thilo Kind
>
> I have been very happy with my WOODCOMP In flight Adjustable Prop. Ihave
close to 100 hrs on it. Yes I wish it was a constant speed prop that was
just as light! I also wish my 912 put out 200 HP!
Leo Corbalis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
I'll be driving up to Oshkosh and going to the dinner. I am staying at
the dorms and can carry four people per trip.
I'll check at the Zenith booth Wednesday and leave my cell phone number.
Tim Shankland
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
>My son and I are going. We'll be walking (OK, after a
>few hours of flight :-). So, unless we find someone to
>carry us to the ZAC dinner, we may not join.
>
>Michel
>
>
>--- David Barth wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>Mark Townsend and I are planning to be there for the
>>ZAC dinner on Thursday night and spend Friday and
>>Saturday at the event. I guess we'll see you at
>>Robins.
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Anyone going to Oshkosh this year? I haven't
>>>>
>>>>
>>seen
>>
>>
>>>any chatter on the
>>>list.
>>>
>>>
>
>__________________________________
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil-canning in wings |
After pulling one wing out into the driveway on the work table, the sun's heat
clearly indicated that I'm going to have some oil-canning in the top skin. (maybe
there's a moral there--about building the wing during the winter) I'm not
real keen on flying inside of a kettle drum.
Short of putting on a new skin and doing it under a heat lamp, does anybody have
any suggestions on avoiding oil-canning in the wing skins? The first two things
that came to mind was to build wing lockers in the offending bays, or inserting
a vertical piece of styrofoam in there, and somehow gluing it in place.
How have other builders dealt with the problem?
Paul Rodriguez
601XL, corvair-ed.
Left wing buttoned up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
> I'll be building the wing tanks (601 HD) in the coming weeks, and I have a
question:
>
> How have you built the sides? Did you make a forming block smaller than
the nose ribs forming
> block by 3 mm (1/8") all around (to allow for the cork thickness)? Or...?
>
> Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD
> Tail feathers done, wing spars done, working on wings.
Carlos,
I think the rule applies to the HD same as the HDS, so here's my two cents.
I made wood formers for each end cap, as you said smaller than the ribs
nearest
them by a little over the 1/8" and made a strap with tensioning that would
hold the
shape of the aluminum skin just like a rib inboard of it whilst it was being
fitted and clecoed in place.
Both ends were done this way and the back sheet was the last to be attached
and welded.
Pictures of the wooden forms are on the site and the banding straps are seen
there also, but
one might not be aware of what's going on if you didn't know to look at the
back blocks that
the bolt tensioners are run thru.
You can get a rather precise fit within the cork if you're willing to go
after it. The tanks get fitted
to the front rib more than a few times to get it just right.
Good luck,.
Regards
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 gascolator |
>
>Where are other 801 builders putting the gascolator? According to the plans,
>it's either on the fierwall wich is higher than the lowest point of the
>fuselage or under the rear of the front seats, which IS the lowest point of
>the fuselage. But the plans also have the gascolator in this location
>sticking way out underneath the belly. I have a center console for the fuel
>selector & primer line & I would like to put the gascolator inside, center
>of fuselage, just in front of the control stick (with clearance of course).
>Has anyone put it on the firewall without water accumulating somewhere else
>before it?
Hi Rich,
If you are following the plans, there is also those aluminum weldments
where the hoses (or lines) from the wing tanks mix together that also has a
drain on the bottom. This is the lowest point on the fuel flow, and as
long as the drains are put in, you can put the gascolator anywhere since
it's only function then is as a strainer. If you aren't using the
weldments, then you need to locate some kind of drain, like the gascolator,
at the lowest point.
Gary L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
Made the forming blocs 3/16" less all around except
for the rear side which is 20 or 25mm less (to allow
for support against Z stiffeners.
I assembled the tanks with 3/32 clecoes (not to many
of them) and brought that to the weldor. Claude
Guilbault is highly reputed in our area for this type
of work. In any way, you should ask the weldor how he
wants the tanks. Some will want the flange of the end
ribs facing outward (like the tanks from ZAC) some
inward. They will also give you their preference for
material (mine are made with 5052-H34, 0.040"). One
thing I did that I would'nt do again is to install a
baffle in the middle of the tank.
See:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chowings5.htm
--- Carlos Sa wrote:
>
> How have you built the sides? Did you make a forming
> block smaller than the nose ribs forming
> block by 3 mm (1/8") all around (to allow for the
> cork thickness)? Or...?
>
> Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight adjustable propeller |
Hi Thilo...
You might check with Chip Erwin (who runs Czech Aircraft Works--the European Zenith
affiliate). I don't know if he follows this list, although I imagine he
might. He used a new 2-blade Woodcomp in-flight adjustable prop to win the Schneider
Cup seaplane race in Italy last month on a Zodiac XL with a Rotax 912S
http://www.airplane.cz/web_files/pr/schneider03.htm
Chip follows the Matronics Seaplane-list, but I don't know if he follows this list.
Since his email is available there, I doubt he'd mind if I copy it here:
aircraft(at)czaw.cz
Dan
Thilo Kind wrote:
Hi folks,
thinking about a new propeller for the 601 HDS (with Rotax 912). What type of in-flight
adjustable propellers are used? What's the experience with those types?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight adjustable propeller |
Does anyone have opinions on the GSC inflight-adjustable prop? I know it can
be used with either GSC blades or Warp Drive blades. These props should help
the performance numbers of the 601 a little
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Kirby" <gkirby(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Scratch built wing tanks |
Hi Carlos,
I am also in the process of building wing tanks for an HD although mine are
going to go in the wing locker and not at the leading edge. I made a form
out of 3/4" particle board that was actually 3/8" undersize. I have allowed
1/8" for the cork, 1/8" for the metal thickness and a fudge factor (better
that the tanks are a little too small than too large). The other 1/8" is
for a 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum strip which I have screwed to the edge of the
form. This has been filed to a nice smooth radius. So far I have made two
of the end caps and they have come out really well. There is something very
satisfying about hammering a piece of aluminum sheet into shape around one
of these forms! - a little like being a blacksmith..
One thing I didn't anticipate was the need to put crimps in the flange that
is formed around the curved surface of the tank end.
Another thing that surprised me was the fuel level sensor. I bought the
potentiometer type from Aircraft-Spruce and was a little shocked that the
device is completely open. I was under the impression that electrical
devices and fuel/fuel vapor are best kept well apart. However, I have since
been told that this is very normal and not something to worry about...
Regards,
Graham Kirby
601HD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch built wing tanks
Hello, all
I'll be building the wing tanks (601 HD) in the coming weeks, and I have a
question:
How have you built the sides? Did you make a forming block smaller than the
nose ribs forming
block by 3 mm (1/8") all around (to allow for the cork thickness)? Or...?
Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD
Tail feathers done, wing spars done, working on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Ladouceur" <tladouce(at)canthaisoftware.com> |
| Subject: | In-flight adjustable propeller |
I have a 601 UL with a 912 and just put a IVO 66" Prop with In Flight
Adjustable system. Will be doing first tests this week. Will let you know
how it goes.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thilo Kind
Subject: Zenith-List: In-flight adjustable propeller
Hi folks,
thinking about a new propeller for the 601 HDS (with Rotax 912). What type
of in-flight adjustable propellers are used? What's the experience with
those types?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Ladouceur" <tladouce(at)canthaisoftware.com> |
| Subject: | Main Gear Bungees |
I need to replace the Main Gear Bungees on my 601 and I was wondering if
anyone could give me some direction on how to do this? I have already
replaced the Nose Gear Bungee which was very straight forward but the Main
Gears seem to be a little bit more involved and I am not sure how to go
about it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. TTYL
Terry Ladouceur, MCT, MCSE, MCSD, MCDBA, CNA, A+
Can-Thai Software Solutions Incorporated
605 Manly Street
Midland, Ontario
Canada L4R 3G4
1-705-527-1717
www.canthaisoftware.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Frisby" <marslander(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 801 gascolator |
>Has anyone put it on the firewall without water accumulating somewhere else
>before it?
Rich,
Zenith provides some water collection "towers" made from aluminum box
tubing, that are designed to provide a drain sump at the low point in the
fuel system, under the seats.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil-canning in wings |
There is a product available that kills the reverberation, a sound dampening coating
SUPER SOUNDPROOFING LIQUID available from Aircraft Spruce $12 a qt. Apply
two coats, a diagonal stripe, or spray a circle through a small hole and it
prevents the resonating through the structure..
Hal Rozema
theplanefolks.net
PAULROD36(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> After pulling one wing out into the driveway on the work table, the sun's heat
clearly indicated that I'm going to have some oil-canning in the top skin. (maybe
there's a moral there--about building the wing during the winter) I'm not
real keen on flying inside of a kettle drum.
>
> Short of putting on a new skin and doing it under a heat lamp, does anybody have
any suggestions on avoiding oil-canning in the wing skins? The first two
things that came to mind was to build wing lockers in the offending bays, or inserting
a vertical piece of styrofoam in there, and somehow gluing it in place.
>
> How have other builders dealt with the problem?
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL, corvair-ed.
> Left wing buttoned up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net> |
List . . . I am ready to install the fuel tank in the right wing on my 701. What
is the best product for cementing the cork to the tank? Hap Schoenberger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus valve guides
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:25:31 -0700
Only the inlet guides are now made from Phospher bronze and have a circlip.
Are you sure you are not looking at an exhaust guide? These are still
standard are not known to fail.
In any case it doesn't matter, the circlipped guides fail just as well.
According to Ron at Ram perforamance the Stratus guides are put in at the
standard height and with the high lift cam the spring cap makes contact with
the top of the guide which eventually hammers them into the head. I have now
way to confirm this but Ron does know his stuff.
Yes one of my circlipped guides just had the circlip come right off and the
engine tried to kill me again!
I sent my heads back to Stratus and when they came back I had Ron knock the
guides out only to find that one of the phospher bronze guides had een
knurled on the outside....which is a total auto shop botch and has no place
on an aircraft.
There is almost no way to check your guides...you will know when it happens.
I would simply take your heads off and send them to Ron, $500 now is a very
cheap price to pay to avoid the sickening cough the engine makes over the
mountains 200 miles from home.
Personally I wish I'd never heard of Stratus!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary K [mailto:flyink(at)efortress.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus valve guides
I'm hoping that I could get some help from the Stratus guy's here and Ron
from Ram Performance. I wanted to check my valve guides so I pulled a
rocker off and took some pictures and posted them on airsoob. Use
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/files/ and go to Gary K's Pelican or
go right to the pictures at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/files/Gary%20K%27s%20EA-81%20Pelican/v
alve%20guide/ (note wrapped address).
I'm assuming that these are the stock pressed-in guides vs. the newer
grooved and clipped style. I'd like to take this discussion off-line
instead of bothering the list here so I'll collect a few addresses and
resend this to a "Stratus group". If you'd like to help out, please respond
to me and I'll add to the list.
Thanks,
Gary Krysztopik
Pelican PL w/Stratus EA-81 subaru
97.459% complete
Newport, R.I.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Acrobatics
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:39:36 -0700
I done rolls but its less than pretty.
Entry speed 125mph, pull up to 30 nose up, bury the stick and rudder...Its
one of those total commitment moments.....
This is not a naturally aerobatic plane!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Thilo Kind [mailto:thilo.kind(at)gmx.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Acrobatics
Hi folks,
anybody tried some mild acrobatics such as loops and aileron rolls with the
601 HDS? How are you doing it entry speeds, etc.)?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawings |
| From: | charles.long(at)gm.com |
07/28/2003 12:36:38 PM
Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from my
kit
> yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to finish off
the Nose gear
> fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished it, I
found a
> note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole" rather
than the
> 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main gear
forks!
> Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork & Doubler
> (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you 2 or 3
hours work
> and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle holes
(cost
> $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping costs.
Thanks
>
> On another subject, if anyone is interested in an Autocad drawing
for
> the instrument panel shown in the last issue of the Zenith newsletter,
send me
> an e-mail off line. Also have a powerpoint file with the panel drawing
> imported and all kinds of instrument pictures pasted in. Can be very
handy for
> arranging the panel layout to get just the right look.
>
> Chuck Long,
> HDS, Airframe 90% complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 801 gascolator |
In a message dated 7/28/2003 8:21:58 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
rbauer(at)INTERGATE.COM writes:
>
> Ok thanks. I never recieved those weldments for the fuel lines. Is it an
> option?
>
> Rich
>
Don't feel bad, I didn't get one with my kit either..
Ben Haas.N801BH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawings |
If it was my case, I will make a bushing to fit in place. no problem,
the axle will still work the same.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- charles.long(at)gm.com wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from
> my
> kit
> > yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to finish
> off
> the Nose gear
> > fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished it,
> I
> found a
> > note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole"
> rather
> than the
> > 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main
> gear
> forks!
> > Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork &
> Doubler
> > (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you 2 or
> 3
> hours work
> > and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle
> holes
> (cost
> > $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping costs.
> Thanks
> >
> > On another subject, if anyone is interested in an Autocad
> drawing
> for
> > the instrument panel shown in the last issue of the Zenith
> newsletter,
> send me
> > an e-mail off line. Also have a powerpoint file with the panel
> drawing
> > imported and all kinds of instrument pictures pasted in. Can be
> very
> handy for
> > arranging the panel layout to get just the right look.
> >
> > Chuck Long,
> > HDS, Airframe 90% complete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawi
ngs
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:35:01 -0700
Hey Charles,
I have another idea...Simpl by a third main gear axle from ZAC...they might
even give you a credit for the nose axle that you have.
To be honest I was amazed why they went for the nose axle arrangement they
did, after all it's a lot more labour with welding etc and when you try to
undo the bolts hundreds of mile away from home with the one borrowed wrench
you will find the axle simply spins and you can't get the bolts out!
So why not simply use a the same axle on the nose as on the mains...simple
and elegent and I bet its less weight too!
The bearings are (or were on my kit the same size). For me I drilled out the
nose axle threads and passed a 5/16hts bolt all the way through...Much
better but a main axle would be even better than this.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: charles.long(at)gm.com [mailto:charles.long(at)gm.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawings
Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from my kit
> yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to finish
> off
the Nose gear
> fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished it, I
found a
> note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole"
> rather
than the
> 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main gear
forks!
> Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork &
> Doubler (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you
> 2 or 3
hours work
> and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle
> holes
(cost
> $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping costs.
Thanks
>
> On another subject, if anyone is interested in an Autocad
> drawing
for
> the instrument panel shown in the last issue of the Zenith newsletter,
send me
> an e-mail off line. Also have a powerpoint file with the panel
> drawing imported and all kinds of instrument pictures pasted in. Can
> be very
handy for
> arranging the panel layout to get just the right look.
>
> Chuck Long,
> HDS, Airframe 90% complete
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawings |
In a message dated 7/28/2003 11:32:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from
> > my
> > kit
> > > yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to finish
> > off
> > the Nose gear
> > > fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished it,
> > I
> > found a
> > > note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole"
> > rather
> > than the
> > > 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main
> > gear
> > forks!
> > > Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork &
> > Doubler
> > > (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you 2 or
> > 3
> > hours work
> > > and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle
> > holes
> > (cost
> > > $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping costs.
> > Thanks
> > >
> > > On another
I find it hard to believe a front axle bolt is only 5/16".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Gates <leogates(at)allvantage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cork |
H. Robert Schoenberger wrote:
>
>List . . . I am ready to install the fuel tank in the right wing on my 701. What
is the best product for cementing the cork to the tank? Hap Schoenberger
>
>
I used Pliobond. ACS has it. Some MEK will allow you to remove it, if
need be.
Leo Gates
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jensenm33(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawings |
Get some 5/8" steel tubing, thread the ends and use as the axle. Better
than the original supplied.
Jerry Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Benford2(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
drawings
In a message dated 7/28/2003 11:32:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from
> > my
> > kit
> > > yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to
finish
> > off
> > the Nose gear
> > > fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished
it,
> > I
> > found a
> > > note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole"
> > rather
> > than the
> > > 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main
> > gear
> > forks!
> > > Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork &
> > Doubler
> > > (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you 2
or
> > 3
> > hours work
> > > and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle
> > holes
> > (cost
> > > $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping
costs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel drawi
ngs
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:51:09 -0700
Good idea but be careful what you use. You really want seamless tubing with
a decent wall thickness. I suspect the originals are 4130.
There is hardly any load on the nose wheel but don't go using seamed tubing
like gas pipe...Not that I've ever seen 5/8ths gas pipe of course...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: jensenm33(at)sbcglobal.net [mailto:jensenm33(at)sbcglobal.net]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
drawings
Get some 5/8" steel tubing, thread the ends and use as the axle. Better than
the original supplied.
Jerry Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Benford2(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
drawings
In a message dated 7/28/2003 11:32:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from
> > my
> > kit
> > > yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to
finish
> > off
> > the Nose gear
> > > fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished
it,
> > I
> > found a
> > > note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle hole"
> > rather
> > than the
> > > 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good Main
> > gear
> > forks!
> > > Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork &
> > Doubler
> > > (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you 2
or
> > 3
> > hours work
> > > and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the axle
> > holes
> > (cost
> > > $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping
costs.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cork |
Robert:
I used "Goop" which I found packaged in a tube at the home supply/hardware
store. Smells bad while curing, but sticks like the dickens.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Tank Cork
>
> List . . . I am ready to install the fuel tank in the right wing on my
701. What is the best product for cementing the cork to the tank? Hap
Schoenberger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Front wheel axle. Option? |
Got a thought about the comment about the tube as an axle (a good wall
sized tube, of course).
It's a good idea, when installed this way, the tube holes in the sides
could be used to attach the red "puller" to the axle and move the plane
inside the hangar, or better, tow the plane to the platform with the 4
X 4 "bike" (cuatrimoto is in spanish, but can't find it in the
dictionary)...
More important for the 701, the tail cone is to high to lean over it to
lighten the front wheel to turn it.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
> To: "'zenith-list(at)matronics.com'"
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
> drawi
> ngs
> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:51:09 -0700
>
> Good idea but be careful what you use. You really want seamless
> tubing with
> a decent wall thickness. I suspect the originals are 4130.
>
> There is hardly any load on the nose wheel but don't go using seamed
> tubing
> like gas pipe...Not that I've ever seen 5/8ths gas pipe of
> course...:)
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jensenm33(at)sbcglobal.net [mailto:jensenm33(at)sbcglobal.net]
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
> drawings
>
>
>
>
> Get some 5/8" steel tubing, thread the ends and use as the axle.
> Better than
> the original supplied.
>
> Jerry Jensen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Benford2(at)aol.com
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Forks for 601 HDS & Instrument panel
> drawings
>
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2003 11:32:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > Hi everyone. Was working on the Main landing gear forks from
> > > my
> > > kit
> > > > yesterday and everything was going so well that I decided to
> finish
> > > off
> > > the Nose gear
> > > > fork as well. Well wouldn't you know it, just after I finished
> it,
> > > I
> > > found a
> > > > note in the plans - "Nose gear gets a 5/16" diameter axle
> hole"
> > > rather
> > > than the
> > > > 5/8" used on the main gear. Now I have three perfectly good
> Main
> > > gear
> > > forks!
> > > > Is there is anyone out there willing to swap a raw Wheel Fork
> &
> > > Doubler
> > > > (6-L-1-3 & 6-L-!-3HD) for the finished ones? It will save you
> 2
> or
> > > 3
> > > hours work
> > > > and I will throw in the 5/8" drill bit required to drill the
> axle
> > > holes
> > > (cost
> > > > $16 & has a 1/2" reduced shank). Will also pay all shipping
> costs.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cork |
Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Tank Cork
>
> List . . . I am ready to install the fuel tank in the right wing on my
701. What is the best product for cementing the cork to the tank? Hap
Schoenberger
>
Hap,
I used a spray 3-M adhesive that is commonly used to secure
12" sanding disks to a large sander. It's pretty good stuff, and
controllable
spray too but it still pays to do it over paper when you use it.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Radiator cooling boost? |
HI list,
Recently someone on the list suggested there was some air assist
coming from the rock guard on his radiator and I decided to try out
louvers as rock guard and air boost. Odd, that my feable attempts to
do a tuft test proved that more air can be had on the downside of that
radiator. The kleenex strips lifted well above the louvers with the fan set
on high. Will be interesting to see what happens at 100mph.
Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radiator cooling boost?
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:08:56 -0700
Interesting, It looks like there is a degree of lift as the air goes up and
over the top of the rad. I bet If you made a pressure recovery duct for the
inlet that this would work pretty well.
Its just a shame it has to dangle down so much under the fuse. Have you
closed the gap next to the prop spinner as much as you can? If you think
about it you only need a very small opening for carb air and to carry away
the exhaust heat.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc(at)qconline.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator cooling boost?
-->
HI list,
Recently someone on the list suggested there was some air assist coming from
the rock guard on his radiator and I decided to try out louvers as rock
guard and air boost. Odd, that my feable attempts to do a tuft test proved
that more air can be had on the downside of that radiator. The kleenex
strips lifted well above the louvers with the fan set on high. Will be
interesting to see what happens at 100mph. Larry McFarland - 601hds @
www.macsmachine.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
I'm looking at the cluttered hose end and sorting what might smooth it out
Havn't gotten to the cowl yet, but it will see some rework.
Kinda like the radiator back there though. It does hang out a bit,
but in the middle of the belly, I think it actually looks better.
Lord knows what kind of performance it'll yield.
Larry
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radiator cooling boost?
> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:08:56 -0700
>
> Interesting, It looks like there is a degree of lift as the air goes up
and
> over the top of the rad. I bet If you made a pressure recovery duct for
the
> inlet that this would work pretty well.
>
> Its just a shame it has to dangle down so much under the fuse. Have you
> closed the gap next to the prop spinner as much as you can? If you think
> about it you only need a very small opening for carb air and to carry away
> the exhaust heat.
>
>
> Frank
> Recently someone on the list suggested there was some air assist coming
from
> the rock guard on his radiator and I decided to try out louvers as rock
> guard and air boost. Odd, that my feable attempts to do a tuft test
proved
> that more air can be had on the downside of that radiator. The kleenex
> strips lifted well above the louvers with the fan set on high. Will be
> interesting to see what happens at 100mph. Larry McFarland - 601hds @
> www.macsmachine.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/27/2003 3:13:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I'll be building the wing tanks (601 HD) in the coming weeks, and I have a
> question:
>
> How have you built the sides? Did you make a forming block smaller than the
> nose ribs forming
> block by 3 mm (1/8") all around (to allow for the cork thickness)? Or...?
>
> Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD
> Tail feathers done, wing spars done, working on wings.
>
>
Wet wing the nose skin. You will save yourseft a ton to headaches.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
Hi, John
It sounds like an interesting approach, but how would you go about this approach?
Carlos
> Wet wing the nose skin. You will save yourseft a ton to headaches.
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 1:09:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com writes:
> It sounds like an interesting approach, but how would you go about this
> approach?
>
> Carlos
>
How far alone with the wing construction are you? Also, are you building
from scratch or kit?
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Wet wing the nose skin. You will save yourseft a ton to headaches.
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough fuel
leaks to know that I wouldn't want to do it on my airplane.
You have to get everything REALLY clean before sealing, then I would
recommend using solid rivets, not the blind rivets that we like so much.
The tanks might leak-check OK at first, but after a little flexing you
could find yourself looking at fuel seeping out under your wings. Then
you'd be drilling off the skins and starting over. You can't fix a fuel
leak in an integral fuel tank from the outside, it has to be stopped
from inside the tank.
I'd go ahead and weld the tanks or buy them from ZAC and be done with it.
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
I'm building from scratch, have the spars done, ribs done.
I am about to put things together, build tanks, etc....
Carlos
>
> How far alone with the wing construction are you? Also, are you building
> from scratch or kit?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 1:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net writes:
> Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough fuel
> leaks to know that I wouldn't want to do it on my airplane.
I met a fella at Sun-N-Fun that went through 3 of Zenairs welded tanks that
had leaks. He finally had to build his own and have them welded locally.
>
You need to do this even if your welding. Not an issue.
> recommend using solid rivets, not the blind rivets that we
> like so much.
I used avex sealed end rivet, Aircraft spruce, designed with this issue in
mind.
> You can't fix a fuel leak in an integral fuel tank from the outside, it has
> to be stopped
> from inside the tank.
All wet wing tanks have pro-sealed access panels so you can make a repair in
the unlikely even of a leak. That is if you take the time to seal it properly.
> I'd go ahead and weld the tanks or buy them from ZAC and be done with it.
Go back to my first answer..
>
> Rick P.
>
Good luck,
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 2:01:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I'm building from scratch, have the spars done, ribs done.
> I am about to put things together, build tanks, etc....
>
> Carlos
>
One more question and I will will make up a set of drawings for you to look
at.
Did you drill out the rivet holes for the nose ribs?
Give me a day or so....
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 2:11:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Zodiac Builder
writes:
>
> >> Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough fuel
>>
>
> I met a fella at Sun-N-Fun that went through 3 of Zenairs welded tanks that
> had leaks. He finally had to build his own and have them welded locally.
>
> >>
>
> You need to do this even if your welding. Not an issue.
>
> then I would
> >>
>
> I used avex sealed end rivet, Aircraft spruce, designed with this issue in
> mind.
>
> >> You can't fix a fuel leak in an integral fuel tank from the outside, it
>> has to be stopped
>>
>
> All wet wing tanks have pro-sealed access panels so you can make a repair in
> the unlikely even of a leak. That is if you take the time to seal it
> properly.
>
> >>
>
> Go back to my first answer..
>
> >>
>> Rick P.
>>
>
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
No holes yet...
> One more question and I will will make up a set of drawings for you to look
> at.
> Did you drill out the rivet holes for the nose ribs?
>
> Give me a day or so....
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch built wing tanks
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:02:39 -0700
I had one leak too. It appears the fold they put on the 'D' of the side of
the tank was bent a little sharply, leading to a fatigue fracture.
I simply welded over the area that was leaking, after inerting the tank with
washing up liquid and dry ice of course.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com [mailto:ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scratch built wing tanks
In a message dated 7/29/2003 1:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net writes:
> Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough
> fuel
> leaks to know that I wouldn't want to do it on my airplane.
I met a fella at Sun-N-Fun that went through 3 of Zenairs welded tanks that
had leaks. He finally had to build his own and have them welded locally.
>
You need to do this even if your welding. Not an issue.
> recommend using solid rivets, not the blind rivets that we
> like so much.
I used avex sealed end rivet, Aircraft spruce, designed with this issue in
mind.
> You can't fix a fuel leak in an integral fuel tank from the outside,
> it has
> to be stopped
> from inside the tank.
All wet wing tanks have pro-sealed access panels so you can make a repair in
the unlikely even of a leak. That is if you take the time to seal it
properly.
> I'd go ahead and weld the tanks or buy them from ZAC and be done with
> it.
Go back to my first answer..
>
> Rick P.
>
Good luck,
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 2:43:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com writes:
> No holes yet...
>
Excellent.....Give me a day or so and I will put together some drawings, and
pictures of what I have done to my new ,under construction, HD wings.
The tanks in my HDS are pro-sealed intregal tanks. I have about 130 hrs in 2
years with them. Absolutely no problems and they were very easy to build.
My only regret was not wetting the wing bay. Cause if I do get a leak I will
have to drill the rivets in the tank cover top skin. As opposed to just
un-screwing a seal access panel under the wing.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
John, when you have the plans drawn up would you mind sending me a copy
also. I'm interested in alternatives. Does this mean that you no longer have
a plane for sale? Hope so.
Mark Townsend
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scratch built wing tanks
>
> In a message dated 7/29/2003 2:43:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > No holes yet...
> >
>
> Excellent.....Give me a day or so and I will put together some drawings,
and
> pictures of what I have done to my new ,under construction, HD wings.
>
> The tanks in my HDS are pro-sealed intregal tanks. I have about 130 hrs
in 2
> years with them. Absolutely no problems and they were very easy to build.
> My only regret was not wetting the wing bay. Cause if I do get a leak I
will
> have to drill the rivets in the tank cover top skin. As opposed to just
> un-screwing a seal access panel under the wing.
>
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson(at)ucnsb.net> |
Larry,
Did my pictures make it to you?? If they didn't, and you're still
interestered, will try again..they were interupted during transit,so not
sure if you got them..will try again if you want..Re: rear radiator instl..
Jackie N5JZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re:
>
> I'm looking at the cluttered hose end and sorting what might smooth it out
> Havn't gotten to the cowl yet, but it will see some rework.
> Kinda like the radiator back there though. It does hang out a bit,
> but in the middle of the belly, I think it actually looks better.
> Lord knows what kind of performance it'll yield.
>
> Larry
>
>
> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radiator cooling boost?
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:08:56 -0700
> >
> > Interesting, It looks like there is a degree of lift as the air goes up
> and
> > over the top of the rad. I bet If you made a pressure recovery duct for
> the
> > inlet that this would work pretty well.
> >
> > Its just a shame it has to dangle down so much under the fuse. Have you
> > closed the gap next to the prop spinner as much as you can? If you think
> > about it you only need a very small opening for carb air and to carry
away
> > the exhaust heat.
> >
> >
> > Frank
>
> > Recently someone on the list suggested there was some air assist coming
> from
> > the rock guard on his radiator and I decided to try out louvers as rock
> > guard and air boost. Odd, that my feable attempts to do a tuft test
> proved
> > that more air can be had on the downside of that radiator. The kleenex
> > strips lifted well above the louvers with the fan set on high. Will be
> > interesting to see what happens at 100mph. Larry McFarland - 601hds @
> > www.macsmachine.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 5:30:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
601xl(at)sympatico.ca writes:
> Does this mean that you no longer have
> a plane for sale? Hope so.
>
Good question......I need to do some more research.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
John, Carlos an all,
Please keep this one IN the list, I will like to read it and will
appreciate very much your valuable imput.
This is my first experience wit AL planes, so most is new but great, we
are waiting our next project in a few days, a 601 XL. Mayble could
have wet tanks, who knows.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S.
--- ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/29/2003 1:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net writes:
>
>
> > Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough
> fuel
> > leaks to know that I wouldn't want to do it on my airplane.
>
> I met a fella at Sun-N-Fun that went through 3 of Zenairs welded
> tanks that
> had leaks. He finally had to build his own and have them welded
> locally.
>
> >
>
> You need to do this even if your welding. Not an issue.
>
> > recommend using solid rivets, not the blind rivets that we
> > like so much.
>
> I used avex sealed end rivet, Aircraft spruce, designed with this
> issue in
> mind.
>
> > You can't fix a fuel leak in an integral fuel tank from the
> outside, it has
> > to be stopped
> > from inside the tank.
>
> All wet wing tanks have pro-sealed access panels so you can make a
> repair in
> the unlikely even of a leak. That is if you take the time to seal it
> properly.
>
> > I'd go ahead and weld the tanks or buy them from ZAC and be done
> with it.
>
> Go back to my first answer..
>
> >
> > Rick P.
> >
>
> Good luck,
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
Jackie,
No, I havn't recieved any pictures yet, but do look forward to seeing them.
Do retry shooting them to me care of larrymc(at)qconline.com if you have
further trouble emailing. I really appreciate you're sending them.
Thanks again,
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson(at)ucnsb.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:
>
> Larry,
> Did my pictures make it to you?? If they didn't, and you're still
> interestered, will try again..they were interupted during transit,so not
> sure if you got them..will try again if you want..Re: rear radiator
instl..
> Jackie N5JZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re:
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm looking at the cluttered hose end and sorting what might smooth it
out
> > Havn't gotten to the cowl yet, but it will see some rework.
> > Kinda like the radiator back there though. It does hang out a bit,
> > but in the middle of the belly, I think it actually looks better.
> > Lord knows what kind of performance it'll yield.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> > > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radiator cooling boost?
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:08:56 -0700
> > >
> > > Interesting, It looks like there is a degree of lift as the air goes
up
> > and
> > > over the top of the rad. I bet If you made a pressure recovery duct
for
> > the
> > > inlet that this would work pretty well.
> > >
> > > Its just a shame it has to dangle down so much under the fuse. Have
you
> > > closed the gap next to the prop spinner as much as you can? If you
think
> > > about it you only need a very small opening for carb air and to carry
> away
> > > the exhaust heat.
> > >
> > >
> > > Frank
> >
> > > Recently someone on the list suggested there was some air assist
coming
> > from
> > > the rock guard on his radiator and I decided to try out louvers as
rock
> > > guard and air boost. Odd, that my feable attempts to do a tuft test
> > proved
> > > that more air can be had on the downside of that radiator. The
kleenex
> > > strips lifted well above the louvers with the fan set on high. Will
be
> > > interesting to see what happens at 100mph. Larry McFarland - 601hds @
> > > www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
In a message dated 7/29/2003 9:58:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
orion(at)silcom.com writes:
> My thoughts on wet wings...similar to Rick I'm afraid. Not something I would
> put on my plane simply because they will be a continual source of
> aggravation (imho).
You are very entittled to your opinion. But will rebutt on some of your
points.
> that wet wings are constructed a lot more solidly than
> the leading edge of a Zenith.
>
I owned two production airplanes that had wet wings. They were not any more
solidly built than the Zodiac leading edge. The leading edge is very
strong..It is an itregal part of the wings strength.
I can see that one solid landing and you could be chasing leaks for
> a long time to come and may eventually have to fit separate tanks.
A landing hard enough to loosen a resin seal in your wings would reck the
rest of your airplane. Also a landing this hard would probably crack a weld too.
> I'm sure the thought did cross his mind...and yet he designed tanks to fit
> the space. Has anyone asked Chris
> about wet wings?
These tanks are just another accessory to generate profit. Wet tanks cost
1/10 of the price of Zenairs tanks.
>
> Ed 601hds/lyc
>
>
Wet wings are just another means of solving an engineering problem. Weighed
with the pros and cons of other tank systems out there, wet wings do offer a
reliable alternative.
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch built wing tanks |
ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/29/2003 1:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net writes:
>
>
>
>>Wet wing might sound like an easy way to go, but I've chased enough fuel
>>leaks to know that I wouldn't want to do it on my airplane.
>
>
> I met a fella at Sun-N-Fun that went through 3 of Zenairs welded tanks that
> had leaks. He finally had to build his own and have them welded locally.
>
>
>>
>
>
> You need to do this even if your welding. Not an issue.
>
>
>>recommend using solid rivets, not the blind rivets that we
>>like so much.
>
>
> I used avex sealed end rivet, Aircraft spruce, designed with this issue in
> mind.
>
>
>>You can't fix a fuel leak in an integral fuel tank from the outside, it has
>>to be stopped
>>from inside the tank.
>
>
> All wet wing tanks have pro-sealed access panels so you can make a repair in
> the unlikely even of a leak. That is if you take the time to seal it properly.
>
>
>>I'd go ahead and weld the tanks or buy them from ZAC and be done with it.
>
>
> Go back to my first answer..
>
>
>>Rick P.
>>
>
>
> Good luck,
Now just watch, I've probably jinxed myself and will end up getting
leaks in my ZAC welded tanks ;)
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Hartl" <pdhartl(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | ZAC Subaru cowl and engine mount for sale |
I have a ZAC-made fiberglass cowl and engine mount for a 601 Subaru EA-81 (Stratus,
but
maybe other conversions, too) for sale. Never been used, of course. ZAC gets $445
for
each, and I'm willing to take a hit on these for anyone needing one or the other.
I believe
(but am not certain) that this is the same cowl ZAC supplies for the Rotax 912,
except that it
comes with a scoop and two side blisters that need to be glassed on; I think it
is ready to go
for the Rotax as is.
Paul
Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300
Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete
FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/
email: pdhartl(at)mindspring.com or paul_hartl(at)communityschool.org
Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brendan Bartlett <b2bartlett(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Couple of 701 questions |
Hello,
I'm interested in possibly building a CH701 in Canada (Brampton)...right now I'm
in the process of getting my Private Pilot's License. Before I start anything,
I have a couple of questions I hope someone on the list might have the answers
to:
1) is the cruise of 80 mph with a Rotax 912 accurate? I'm planning of installing
a 100hp 912S.
2) I haven't decided if I want a kit or to build scratch from plans...how much
time do I save with the kit? Is it worth it? I'm probably going to start building
in a basement and if I go the plans route I'm planning to fabricate parts
I can ship out to my final assembly area (which I don't have yet). If it takes
4 years, part-time, I'm fine with it.
3) this question sounds crazy, and if it is, great let me know. Is it possible
to carry a small (14 foot, kevlar, 42 lb) canoe on a float equipped CH701?
Obviously this affects the aerodynamics of the airplane, but would it still be
flyable and would the canoe survive after landing?
4) has anyone tried pressure actived leading edge slats? I found a company offering them at http://www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm.
They sound impressive, but I'm not sure they're worth the 20% improvement in cruise
speed when you consider the extra equipment you have on your wing.
Ideally, what I want is a good easy to fly airplane which can be used as a rugged
bush plane for Northern Ontario and I can still use it for the occasional
cross-country (500 km) flight...I think the 701 fits the bill pretty well. If
I had the cash, I would go for a Beaver or Twin Otter, but I don't!! I wouldn't
want the gph burn rate of those airplanes either.
Thanks for any and all info....
- Brendan Bartlett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
Hi folks,
for those of you flying with the IVO prop: what type of prop are you using for
the CH601 HDS / Rotax 912? Am I coreect assuming, that the 3 blade 68'' inflight-adjustable
Ultralight prop is the right one?
How satisfied are you with the prop in terms of performance and maintenance? Somewhere
I heard, that there is a problem with the brushes and the slip ring (getting
dirty and causing poor electrical connection)?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual radiators... |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
When using a dual radiator setup, is there a preference for series vs.
parallel connection? I'm thinking of putting a pair of motorcycle radiators
on my CAM100 (Honda conversion), either in each corner of the cowling, or
maybe one in each wing root. Series would be less plumbing ...
I'm moving my 'chin' mounted rad. It's been working fine wrt keeping engine
coolant within limits, but the dumping of hot air into the engine room has
led to other complications.
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / Zodiac 601 HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flydog1966(at)aol.com |
I'm at the point when I have to crawl into the 701 rear fuselage to put in
gussetts.
Zenith manual says to put down padding to protect the bottom skin.
Did anyone use a better techniqe? Anyone do it this way with no
problems?
Thanks
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | crawling into aft fuselage |
Phil:
When I had to get back into my 601 aft fuselage I put down a piece of 3/8 ply
salvaged from the crate it came in. Worked OK, no damage to me or the airplane.I
let it rest on the .025 angles which run across the bottom skin.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual radiators... |
Grant,
In our next project, the 601 XL, we are planning to use the Jab 3000 so
no water cooling instalation. But in your position I will go towards
one radiator in each wing root, like the Spitfire. I read that is more
efective in cooling while taxing, also they look very cool in that
position...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
>
> When using a dual radiator setup, is there a preference for series
> vs.
> parallel connection? I'm thinking of putting a pair of motorcycle
> radiators
> on my CAM100 (Honda conversion), either in each corner of the
> cowling, or
> maybe one in each wing root. Series would be less plumbing ...
>
> I'm moving my 'chin' mounted rad. It's been working fine wrt keeping
> engine
> coolant within limits, but the dumping of hot air into the engine
> room has
> led to other complications.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / Zodiac 601 HDS / CAM100
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | crawling into aft fuselage |
| From: | "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo(at)ngc.com> |
You may wish to install a roughly 12" x 12" access hatch for future work like antennae,
cable maintenance. Mine is in the 601 HDS left sideskin; some have put
them in the bottom skin.
I would never attempt to crawl into the tailcone: it's not designed for such abuse!
GGP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: attn 701 bldrs |
We did not find any problem this way, because the rear fuselage is flat
(well almost) in the table, the padding worked OK for the plane and the
"rear End". Well, a big guy will no be very confortable working inside
that "airconditioning duct" :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Flydog1966(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm at the point when I have to crawl into the 701 rear fuselage to
> put in
> gussetts.
> Zenith manual says to put down padding to protect the bottom
> skin.
> Did anyone use a better techniqe? Anyone do it this way with no
>
> problems?
>
> Thanks
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual radiators... |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
The heat from the chin-mounted rad was causing damage to my Hall EFfect
sensors -- there seems to be a degradation to the epoxy used to hold them in
place, and even some physical damage as if there has been a loss of 'gap' at
some point and the sensor has been touched by the magnet. This along with
the general effects of excessive heat under the cowl (fuel vaporization
possibilities; wear and tear on other components...) has convinced me to go
ahead and try my radiator idea.
Even better than 'under' the wing, I'm looking at INSIDE the wing. The
HD/HDS wings have that natural 'bay' just outboard of the gear legs where
the wing attach brakets are accessible. There is plenty of room in here for
a 6 or 8" by 18 or 20" radiator. One on each side will give me more than
the manufacturer's recommeded 200 sq. inches. A NACA duct on the bottom of
the wing, and a venting surface on top - in the gap cover that we fabricate
for this area - located in the zone of max. lift should produce a positive
lifting of air through the radiator. The good thing is that at high angles
of attack with max. wing lift, there will also be maximum airflow through
the radiator, which seems ideal. (So hopefully no scoops at all will be
required).
While on the ground the engine isn't producing maximum heat, but the key
factor may be if there is still enough rising of air through the rad to keep
things cool during long taxi times, etc...
Thanks for the encouragement - I'll keep you posted - but you'll have to
stay tuned - I'm a slow worker ;-)
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
> Grant,
>
> In our next project, the 601 XL, we are planning to use the Jab 3000 so
> no water cooling instalation. But in your position I will go towards
> one radiator in each wing root, like the Spitfire. I read that is more
> efective in cooling while taxing, also they look very cool in that
> position...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com> |
Here I sit all sad and downtrodden
Wishing I was there, over in Wisconsin
Checking my email- nothing but SPAM
My buddies are at Oshkosh, how sad I AM!
No Emails to see, I surf over to Ebay
And what do I find, what a surprise I say!
Someone has given up a dream and lots of fun,
Selling a partial kit of a CH701!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26438&item=2426036386
For everyone unable to go to Oshkosh, have a good evening and lets plan on
being there next year.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZodiacBuilder(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Schebler Carburettor |
In a message dated 7/30/2003 5:21:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
stephen(at)crichards.flyer.co.uk writes:
> Hi List
> Ray Lasnier has a Marvel Shebler MA-3SPA Carburettor Part No 104894 on his
> Continental 0-200
> Any body know where we can get information as to the Max Minimum Designe
> Fuel pressure ?
> It also has 12S18D5 stamped on the side of the accelerator pump.
>
>
I can tell you...I have the manual on that model...
4psi min
6psi max
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual radiators... |
Hi, Grant
Cool idea, but how would that affect lift?
Carlos
> Even better than 'under' the wing, I'm looking at INSIDE the wing. The
> HD/HDS wings have that natural 'bay' just outboard of the gear legs where
> the wing attach brakets are accessible. There is plenty of room in here for
> a 6 or 8" by 18 or 20" radiator. One on each side will give me more than
> the manufacturer's recommeded 200 sq. inches. A NACA duct on the bottom of
> the wing, and a venting surface on top - in the gap cover that we fabricate
> for this area - located in the zone of max. lift should produce a positive
> lifting of air through the radiator. The good thing is that at high angles
> of attack with max. wing lift, there will also be maximum airflow through
> the radiator, which seems ideal. (So hopefully no scoops at all will be
> required).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk(at)granderiver.net> |
| Subject: | 701/912 radiator hose |
Found a formed hose for the right side that works pretty well with a little trimming.
NAPA #8088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Szewc" <szewc(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: attn 701 bldrs |
>
> I'm at the point when I have to crawl into the 701 rear fuselage to put in
> gussetts.
> Zenith manual says to put down padding to protect the bottom skin.
> Did anyone use a better techniqe? Anyone do it this way with no
> problems?
>
I just went through that process. I put shipping
blankets down underneath and inside the fuselage. I
folded the one underneath near the back to keep it from
rocking. It came out OK with no damage to the bottom
skin. I made sure I prepared everything ahead of time
and brought it in with me so that I didn't have to go
in and out more than once.
I don't know if there is a better way to do it. If you
have room (height) maybe you could stand it up and
support it on the edge of a bench and use a step ladder
to get far enough inside.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 for sale anyone? |
Hello Larry
Wher are you located? I may sell my 701 plans built. I live in Illinois
Larry H Sirmans <Larry@frontline-eng.com> wrote:
I am looking for a used 701 or an uncompleted kit for sale? If anyone has one or
know of one, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
Regards,
Larry Sirmans
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Townsend" <601xl(at)sympatico.ca> |
Very Good Scott.
I am also off to Oshkosh,
Oh yes I am,
For at the airshow I will see no spam.
Dinner with Chris
I can never miss.
See you soon
Vroom Vrrrooommmm Vvvrrroommm.
Sorry couldn't resist
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
Alma, Ontario
-----Original Message-----
Here I sit all sad and downtrodden
Wishing I was there, over in Wisconsin
Checking my email- nothing but SPAM
My buddies are at Oshkosh, how sad I AM!
No Emails to see, I surf over to Ebay
And what do I find, what a surprise I say!
Someone has given up a dream and lots of fun,
Selling a partial kit of a CH701!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:08:44 -0700
I'm thinking this through but on balance I think you will want a scoop. You
will lose lift because the air will short cicuit the wing lift ing surfaces
somewhat. Should not be a huge effect though.
I think you will find that a lot of the cooling energy is due to the total
pressure component of the forward flowing air.
I havent got time to do the clacs right now but I think your going to have
to add a little pressure recovery scoop in any case, either that or the rads
will have to be bigger. We can do some calcs if you get some engineering
radiator info.
Of course if you have to have scoops then there is not much point in putting
the rad in the wing unless there are advantages in running your plumbing.
Anyway, give me an email when your serious...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
The heat from the chin-mounted rad was causing damage to my Hall EFfect
sensors -- there seems to be a degradation to the epoxy used to hold them in
place, and even some physical damage as if there has been a loss of 'gap' at
some point and the sensor has been touched by the magnet. This along with
the general effects of excessive heat under the cowl (fuel vaporization
possibilities; wear and tear on other components...) has convinced me to go
ahead and try my radiator idea.
Even better than 'under' the wing, I'm looking at INSIDE the wing. The
HD/HDS wings have that natural 'bay' just outboard of the gear legs where
the wing attach brakets are accessible. There is plenty of room in here for
a 6 or 8" by 18 or 20" radiator. One on each side will give me more than
the manufacturer's recommeded 200 sq. inches. A NACA duct on the bottom of
the wing, and a venting surface on top - in the gap cover that we fabricate
for this area - located in the zone of max. lift should produce a positive
lifting of air through the radiator. The good thing is that at high angles
of attack with max. wing lift, there will also be maximum airflow through
the radiator, which seems ideal. (So hopefully no scoops at all will be
required).
While on the ground the engine isn't producing maximum heat, but the key
factor may be if there is still enough rising of air through the rad to keep
things cool during long taxi times, etc...
Thanks for the encouragement - I'll keep you posted - but you'll have to
stay tuned - I'm a slow worker ;-)
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
> Grant,
>
> In our next project, the 601 XL, we are planning to use the Jab 3000
> so no water cooling instalation. But in your position I will go
> towards one radiator in each wing root, like the Spitfire. I read
> that is more efective in cooling while taxing, also they look very
> cool in that position...
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
Frank, thanks very much... I'll keep you posted. There is one 'school of
thought' that says "these new sensors use high temp epoxy - problem solved.
Your current radiator works. It's KISS. Don't mess with it."
The other says: "excessive heat in the engine room is always a problem for
many reasons sooner or later. It's not a bad idea -- go for it..."
I'll certainly be in touch as soon as I've committed to this new approach.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> I'm thinking this through but on balance I think you will want a scoop. You
> will lose lift because the air will short cicuit the wing lift ing surfaces
> somewhat. Should not be a huge effect though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/30/03 |
Please post..
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac 601HDS SN 4211, Plans buildling
770-277-1637
gpjann(at)juno.com
Am selling my project because of financial reasons.
The airframe is 99.9% complete, finishing up on mounting canopy.
Remaining work to be complete is FWF and instruments, and several small
things such as wing/fuse fairing.
All controls, header tank, elevator and aileron trims, wing lockers,
pitot & static tubes, Matco tires, wheels and brakes, etc, are installed.
Price $8600
Project can be seen at Lawrenceville, Ga airport (LZU).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual radiators... |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
Definitely any venting of air from bottom to top of the wing will cause loss
of lift - therefor more angle of attack on the wing to compensate - therefor
increased iduced drag offsetting any parasite drag gains made. ... So,
ideally if there's lots of airflow in flight, the escape to the top surface
could be minimized.... Actally I'm still researching the Spitfire and ME109
and other designs... I think they may have exhausted the air under the
trailing edge - used adjustable exhaust or inlet scoop controls -- but they
were working with a lot more heat and a lot greater range of airspeeds/
drag/ etc....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
> Cool idea, but how would that affect lift?
________________________________________________________________________________
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac 601HDS SN 4211, Plans building
For more information and pictures of my project for sale look for my ad
on www.barnstormers2000.com
under Experimental category....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:24:23 -0700
They did exhaust to the trailing edge...I don't know why the Americans
didn't simply plaugerise the design when they stole the engine for the P51
to make "the greatest fighter of WWII"....:)
...I actually heard a teenage boy point to the P51 and make comparison to
the Spit and say "of course that one was better than that one"...Of course
dear boy but how much of it was your country's design?....:)
Anyway, yeah the HDS is a bit short of wing in any case (9500ft desity alt
and it starts to struggle a little) so I'm not sure you want to lose too
much lift
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc(at)ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
Definitely any venting of air from bottom to top of the wing will cause loss
of lift - therefor more angle of attack on the wing to compensate - therefor
increased iduced drag offsetting any parasite drag gains made. ... So,
ideally if there's lots of airflow in flight, the escape to the top surface
could be minimized.... Actally I'm still researching the Spitfire and ME109
and other designs... I think they may have exhausted the air under the
trailing edge - used adjustable exhaust or inlet scoop controls -- but they
were working with a lot more heat and a lot greater range of airspeeds/
drag/ etc....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
> Cool idea, but how would that affect lift?
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Electric diagram. |
I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
basic instruments where we can start?
I had worked from the diagram of each instrument an make my drawings
from there, mostly very basic ultralight type.
This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
course).
I searched the list and found nothing ???
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
Scott and Mark,
Well done,
I made it to Oshkosh, to see the planes there
But saw all that I wanted the first day where,
I shook Chris's hand and spoke with Nick,
And picked up more T-shirts from ZAC so quick
We walked the whole flight line just once to be sure
To see any 601s that might be,,,,,, but none were
Someone said that one did, but its muffler leaked heat
That cut a bungee in two and it dipped its nose to its feet.
Well we did in a day what some take three,
but it was worth it to us just to come and see
what new stuff was there and there was,
but not much that I needed to further my cause.
So home again here, to the solace I seek, and
Putting wires in the bird to finish the week.
Go Oshkosh! Great fun, All things to all people, but is it
like Florida, just a nice place for a short summer visit.
Larry McFarland - 601hds www.macsmachine.com
>
> Very Good Scott.
> I am also off to Oshkosh,
> Oh yes I am,
> For at the airshow I will see no spam.
> Dinner with Chris
> I can never miss.
> See you soon
> Vroom Vrrrooommmm Vvvrrroommm.
>
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
> Alma, Ontario
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Here I sit all sad and downtrodden
> Wishing I was there, over in Wisconsin
> Checking my email- nothing but SPAM
> My buddies are at Oshkosh, how sad I AM!
> No Emails to see, I surf over to Ebay
> And what do I find, what a surprise I say!
> Someone has given up a dream and lots of fun,
> Selling a partial kit of a CH701!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric diagram. |
Hi, Gary,
you might want to get the "AeroElectric Connection", from Bob Nuckolls (visit
HTTP://www.aeroelectric.com).
Also, subscribing to the aero electric list (Matronics) is a good idea.
Carlos
> I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
> instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
> basic instruments where we can start?
>
> This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
> course).
> Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric diagram. |
Every builder should have the TONY BINGELUS book SPORTPLANE CONSTRUCTION
TECHNIQUES available from the EAA website, or preferably get all three
Hal
N701PF theplanefolks.net, Phoenix
Gary Gower wrote:
>
> I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
> instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
> basic instruments where we can start?
>
> I had worked from the diagram of each instrument an make my drawings
> from there, mostly very basic ultralight type.
>
> This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
> course).
>
> I searched the list and found nothing ???
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Electric flaps |
Keith,
I considered an electric flap mech but rejected the idea because of weight
Electric motors tend to be heavy critters). I found the ZA design awkward
and replaced it with a lever/quadrant actuator. It's light and easy to
operate and can have as many position as you can file into the quadrant.
----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Electric FLAPeron control for the CH701
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:42:33 -0500
>
>
> UMIDS FROM ADDRESS: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinder Head Temp Sensor |
List,
Can anyone tell me what the alternative location for a CHT sensor
is for the Subaru? I'm told the spark plug is the most frequently used
but my EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies came with two 10mm sensors
and I'm not sure if the reading would even be the same with the sensor at the side
or the end of the engine heads as they suggest.
Especially appreciate hearing from Subaru owners on this one.
Thanks,
Larry McFarland - 601hds (wiring the engine).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoyN9869L(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Venture 2003 - I'm back |
Hi Michael,
While you were at AirVenture what was said about the proposed Sport Pilot
Category? I haven't heard a word on this site, just wondering if this is ever
going to materialize, Thanks and Cheers
Roger
CH-701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Venture 2003 - I'm a Sport Pilot |
>
> While you were at AirVenture what was said about the proposed Sport Pilot
> Category? I haven't heard a word on this site, just wondering if this is
ever
> going to materialize, Thanks and Cheers
>
> Roger
> CH-701
Good news for all re: Sport Pilot!
Quoting www.sportpilot.org
"July 31, 2003 - The new sport pilot and light-sport aircraft (SP/LSA)
categories passed a major milestone Thursday when FAA Administrator Marion
Blakey announced at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2003 that the FAA had completed
work on the final rule. The rulemaking package has now been forwarded to the
Department of Transportation (DOT) for review."
IMO, it is only a matter ot time (this year) that this will become the new
law of the land. It has been a LONG process, for sure!
Remember, you should still register your plane as Experimental; the new
Sport Pilot and LSA automatically applies if the plane (and pilot) fall
within the specs of the ruling (which of course has not yet been made public
in its final form)
Jon Croke
CH-701
N701US
95%
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temp Sensor |
larry
This will work. It's the same place I put mine on the dyno.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Venture 2003 - I'm back |
| From: | Ray Montagne <ac6qj(at)earthlink.net> |
On 8/2/03 6:18 PM, "RoyN9869L(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> While you were at AirVenture what was said about the proposed Sport Pilot
> Category? I haven't heard a word on this site, just wondering if this is ever
> going to materialize, Thanks and Cheers
>
Both "http://www.eaa.org" and "http://www.avweb.com" have been providing
full coverage on this issue...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Gordon" <djgordon(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flaps 701 |
yep I've gone with an electric flap
got a flap actuator out of a old Jaguar fighter very light and powerful
150kg force
weights less than the crome molly flap arm it is replacing
now need to get some form of indication of setting
I liked the idea of the potentiometer mentioned on the list
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com>
thought about building, an electric flap control for the 701?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Head Temp Sensor |
I don't have a really good answer to this as I'm
fairly new to engine mechanics... but I remember GRT
telling me that if I can't use the sender attached to
the sparkplug, they would exchange them with another
one that can be attached to a head stud.
They ended up fitting very well on the spark plug and
I'm sure that GRT will exchange them at no cost for
you if you want to install them there.
There was a thread on Airsoob a while ago where
several people claimed there was no reason to use CHT
sensors. One made mention that CHT sensor could show
a problem with coolant (if you lose coolant, it would
take more time for coolant temp to go high than it
would for CHT to go high). I did not reflect much on
the validity of this... I just installed the sensors I
got.
Michel
--- Larry McFarland wrote:
>
>
> List,
> Can anyone tell me what the alternative location for
> a CHT sensor
> is for the Subaru? I'm told the spark plug is the
> most frequently used
> but my EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies came with
> two 10mm sensors
> and I'm not sure if the reading would even be the
> same with the sensor at the side
> or the end of the engine heads as they suggest.
> Especially appreciate hearing from Subaru owners on
> this one.
> Thanks,
> Larry McFarland - 601hds (wiring the engine).
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
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>
>
July 19, 2003 - August 03, 2003
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-do