Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hj
November 20, 2007 - November 27, 2007
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hj
November 20, 2007 - November 27, 2007
but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see
how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this
past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and
got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar
leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as
well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke
was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this
topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual
throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight
modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the
top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from
Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you
for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still can't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders can't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation
is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just
last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://
forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator Control Friction
From: "countzero" <robyboy(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing fairlead on
the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated brackets to reduce
the friction in the elevator control circuit.
Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the sheet
I should use or you used for the brackets?
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147445#147445
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles
Hi Doug,
On my XL, the Z angles are only used around the fuselage bottom
door. I think the reason they give you extra pieces is because there
was (is?) a mistake on one of the drawings that shows the most
forward Z oriented backwards. I used up some of my stock to replace
that part after installing it the way the wrong drawing showed and
then used the rest of the stock finishing the door edging. I wrote
to ZAC to ask where it was also used to see if I needed to order
more, and got the response that it was only used there.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 06:16 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote:
>
>I'm placing an order for some parts from Zenith and realized, there
>seems to be a discrepancy (or I'm looking in the wrong place).
>
>Page 6B1 lists 6 pieces of Z-angle required. For the life of me, I
>can't see where more than 4 pieces are required (around the bottom
>hatch). Where else is this stuff used?
>
>Someone straighten this confused soul out, please.
>
>Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
Subject: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 20, 2007
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we've sold
well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established
FWF kit they run cool. When builders put something together without the
proper engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that
cool well in fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like
a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still
can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would
have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming
or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders
can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price
increase because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet
some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete
Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don
Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there
filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the
things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest
ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the
cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but
you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the
back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went
over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions
hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took
during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
_____
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Nose Skin
Art,
One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
cleco check the result.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Art Olechowski wrote:
>
> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the
holes through spar
> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the
skin. But when I
> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain about a
> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of you
> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Art
> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Taildragger
Date: Nov 20, 2007
There are changes in the forward fuselage and the wing stubs for the
tail dragger.
Aaron 601 HDTD 40+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
Date: Nov 20, 2007
I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle
deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but
made my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than
$100.
Aaron Gustafson
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlanding
wave.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Do you have some more photos of your canopy that you could post or mail to me off
list?
agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote:
> I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle deck.
One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made my own
from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100.
>
> Aaron Gustafson
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147468#147468
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit
h
the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear
most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get i
t
here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is a
stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I'
m
only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno
w
from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60
1
had a problem cooling also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep
it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol
d well over
1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF kit
they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper
engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel
l in
fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or
Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still c
an't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca
n't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotj
e
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for update
s
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
://f
orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Na
vigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
____________________________________
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
ator
=
uch much
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
great content
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <rpf(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 20, 2007
I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he
has tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but
still can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one
engine I would have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because
it isn't a Lycoming or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just
that a lot of builders can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they
can justify the price increase because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an
Avid Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In
fact I never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs
were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl)
and let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru
airplanes. I guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in
the wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the
flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is
doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past
Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has
overheating problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than
a baffle problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at
about this but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and
check to see how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar
this past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time
and got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to
seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient
with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig.
Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video
on this topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the
dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some
slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed
on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front
shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske
truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE
find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionf
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Zenith-List.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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============
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-----
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go ahead. I
bought mine from
http://rjrcooltools.com/
It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR
appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for
modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut
aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description.
I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer.
Terry
>Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores carry
>the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami Florida
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Nose Skin
Larry,
Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange holes
aft of the
spar?
Art
--- LarryMcFarland wrote:
>
> Art,
> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> cleco check the result.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Art Olechowski wrote:
> >
> > He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the
holes through
> spar
> > and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of
the skin. But
> when I
> > overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose
ribs contain
> about a
> > 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges.
Have any of
> you
> > experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Art
> > 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE : RE: Scratchbuilding Tools
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
I second Bryan's remark. After looking for an Olfa 800 for a while with no luck,
I realized that I got satisfactory results from just a plain old utility knife.
I have found that I cut way more aluminum with a knife that with shears.
Before starting this project, I would not have thought that was possible.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147526#147526
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Again,
The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at high
power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any
extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts.
The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2
to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they
will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5.
I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB and
unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power continuously
- (Not a normal operation for me though)
My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side)
My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the older
one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved one
provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits.
.
When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful
descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very
easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension
- I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have
also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!.
Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/
- 12C.)
You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not a
Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem with
getting enough air into the intakes.
Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed
sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only.
Tony Graziano
XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running,
easily maintained, Jab 3300
---------------
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming
my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands
of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before
and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with
the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has
them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it
will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never
studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough
fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of
not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to
allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows
over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem
otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to
start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say
there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every
builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors
in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at
high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar
This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf(at)wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20
- 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer
I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-----------
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 20, 2007
One minor correction - I received my cowling in Nov 04 vice 05.
Tony Graziano
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Graziano
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Again,
The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at
high power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any
extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts.
The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2
to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they
will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5.
I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB
and unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power
continuously - (Not a normal operation for me though)
My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side)
My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the
older one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved
one provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits.
.
When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful
descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very
easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension
- I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have
also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!.
Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/
- 12C.)
You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not
a Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem
with getting enough air into the intakes.
Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed
sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only.
Tony Graziano
XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running,
easily maintained, Jab 3300
---------------
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has
the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming
my way
on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I
disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands
of planes
out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before
and they
don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the
tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with
the machining.
I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has
them
continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it
will
over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never
studied one
very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough
fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of
not only
getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to
allow
the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows
over
it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem
otherwise
they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to
this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to
start
a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say
there
is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every
builder
that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors
in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at
high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar
This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf(at)wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20
- 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer
I hardly
ever get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to
keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a
couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older
style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older
style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My
installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors,
inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and
last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of
done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab.
owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one
thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is
and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab.
3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm
enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I
don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that
one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling
also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a
properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a
problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven
years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are
coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put
something together without the proper engineering results can be
unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like
the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It
is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the
same cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
-----------
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Rob: I am also interested in the sheet-thickness of the bracket. For the ones who
don't know the link to the modification, here it is:
http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147551#147551
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage
behind the cockpit.
It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Emailing: tommy929 004
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Turtle Deck...........
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
tommy929 004
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle.
While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce
a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS
showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held
it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight
edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle,
and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade
isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as
easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs
turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production
business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of
styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber
saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you
can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to
grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the
way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it
yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll
give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something,
and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays<mailto:alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either
last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility
knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace
Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM,
> wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>>
>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and
another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed
as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be
about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to
drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country
hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware
stores.
>>
>>========================
======================p; --
Please
>> Support Your Lists This
Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://http://>
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>>
www.m=======================
=======================nbsp
<http://www.m====================
=nbsp/>; -
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
avigator?Zenith-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: of wrath and rants...
From: "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ?
Are they members or not ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147577#147577
________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Subject: Re: of wrath and rants...
>--------------
>
>Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ?
>
>Are they members or not ?
>--------------
Members that are subscribed to the email lists but are _not_ registered
on the Forum, will show up as "Guest" with their email address shown.
Only people that are registered specifically on the Forums will show
their Forum login and not "guest".
Inotherwords, just because they are "guest" on the Forum, doesn't mean they are
really a "guest" status. You cannot post on the Forum without being
registered (which a guest could do).
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List/Forum Admin
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 Arm rest/console
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
So is the seat width wider on the 601 then? I really don't know, as I've never
really looked at a 601 up close and all they list is cabin width.
But I do get shoulder/neck cramps and this would help. And I prefer to fly with
my Hands on the stick! Though I have been known to drive my truck with my knee
[Shocked]
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147584#147584
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
Date: Nov 20, 2007
That certainly does look like a good source. Their price is now $9.
It seems anything gets priced higher if it's to be used on an aircraft.
But still, with no shipping, and no time and gas going to town, it's
the best I've heard of. Thanks.
Al
On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
> I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go
> ahead. I bought mine from
>
> http://rjrcooltools.com/
>
> It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR
> appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for
> modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut
> aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description.
>
> I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer.
>
> Terry
>
>
>> Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores
>> carry the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do.
>>
>> William Dominguez
>> Zodiac 601XL Plans
>> Miami Florida
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the
> stab
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
Hey Gig;
The oldest books I have and have seen all refer to the aft upper fuse surface as
the turtledeck. What makes a term official? It certainly has a lot of history!
Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage
behind the cockpit.
It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Culver" <rculver(at)nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
Date: Nov 20, 2007
You can get Olfa blades and Cutters directly from Olfa and their prices
are good and you have quite a choice ..I have the p-800 at:
http://www.olfa.com/UtilityKnivesDetail.aspx?C=35&Id=58
and the heavy duty replacement blades at :
http://www.olfa.com/utilityknivesdetail.aspx?c=63&id=59
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36(at)msn.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 2007-11-20 17:11
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle.
While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce
a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS
showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held
it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight
edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle,
and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade
isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as
easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs
turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production
business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of
styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber
saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you
can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to
grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the
way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it
yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll
give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something,
and catch hell from somebody).
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
Paul,
No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware
stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either
last
time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility
knives
which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any
quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace
Hardware
would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its
good
that you and others in your area can take advantage of that.
Al
On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote:
> $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole
> lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Al Hays
>> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and
another
>> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is
listed as
>> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of
>> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be
about
>> $8
>> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to
drive
>> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Al
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>>
>> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country
hardware
>> > store doesn't have one.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Carlos Sa
>> >> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools
>> >>
>> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware
stores.
>>
>>========================
======================p; --
Please
>> Support Your Lists This
Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> Browse, Chat,
>> FAQ,http://
>>
www.m=====================nbsp;
-
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
>>
forums.matroni====================
=====================
>p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual
link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ELT Position.
From: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
I missed the original thread, but wanted to add that I put mine in the tail section,
as that was where the manufacturer (AMERI-KING)recommended it be placed.
They said it was the area least likely to be destroyed in a crash.
I hope I never have to prove what a good location it was.
Dan
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147599#147599
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
As I have said I haven't had a chance to see my friends set up but I would
like to help him get it fixed so could you please send some pics of your
cowling and baffle setup? Also what aircraft is this in?
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 12:16:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rpf(at)wi.rr.com writes:
I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly ever
get a CHT reading over 300F.
Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to kee
p
the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a couple of
cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older style 3300
without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older style RAM air c
ooling
ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My installation is exactly
like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, inside the RAM air ducts, so
air
would flow through the middle two and last two cylinders. If anything, I
would like to know what people of done (who fly in cold weather) to keep th
eir
CHT's higher.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit
h
the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear
most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get
it
here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is
a
stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I
'm
only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno
w
from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60
1
had a problem cooling also.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly
designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to
keep
it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol
d well
over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF
kit
they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper
engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel
l in
fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or
Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well.
If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same
cowl design he would have the same cooling results.
Pete
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has
tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still
can't
get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have
nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or
continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca
n't
make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase
because it is one hot engine. LOL
Jeff
In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHT
s
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion
is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around
the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for
updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cool
er
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust
last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: 701 Build Time
I checked my logbook and the firewall forward took me about 90 hours. I
did not break out the other individual construction times. Of course
there was a lot of time that I did not record. This is what I called
stupid time, ie - well you screwed that up what are going to do now stupid.
Dan Wilde
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ron Lalonde <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Hi Dave
Are you back to scratchbuilding??
Sure would love to see you back up and running.
Going to go to your building site as soon as this message is sent.
Ron
Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build> From: d
claytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:13:29 -0800> To: zenith-list
mail.com>> > If you can find a local supplier for your aluminum you can sav
e even more money. I'm fortunate to have a Trident Metals one hour away. I
purchased two 4X12 sheets of .025 last week for $60 each with no shipping c
harges. Aircraft Spruce currently charges $108 per sheet plus shipping. Scr
atch building does take more time, for sure, but its a heck of a lot cheape
r. Its also a pretty nice feeling to be able to say "I made every part by h
and". Having said that...a kit would be my preference if money were not a f
actor.> > Dave Clay> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.
========================> _
======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hello all...
From: "Joshua" <joshua(at)gurleyauctions.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Thanks for all of your replies. I'll leave the 24" brake alone and just build a
Dave Clay brake.
I've been in and around a lot of lists and I must say this one is tops. There is
just so much info and support available its amazing. I had completely dismissed
aluminum construction after researching the Bearhawk last year because it
just seemed so complicated and beyond my abilities. After spending the last few
months studying Zenith planes I feel like I could practically build my 701 with
just the information available on-line!
It will be a while but I cant wait to get started.
Thanks again. I'll be back!
Joshua
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147621#147621
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Andrew Hinsdale <ahinsdale(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Glass Panels
Hello Listers!
Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does
everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily
interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and
potential weight savings - but the need for "backups"
could erode that very quickly.
Thanks
Andy Hinsdale
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Free forming sheet metal
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Yes softer metal is normally used, but all I had was the 6061-T6 and I wanted to
give it a try.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147631#147631
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: craig(at)craigandjean.com
Subject: Re: Glass Panels
I'm backing up my EFIS (MGL Enigma) with an MGL Flight 2. I went with
an EFIS to get rid of mechanical gauges so why bring them back as a
back-up? The Flight 2 can be powered from Enigma's "secure" supply
(primary and secondary batteries) or, if I am really paranoid, will run
from a 9 volt battery for more than an hour. In a 3.5 inch package it
provides (among other things):
* Altimeter (-700ft to >40.000ft range)
* Airspeed indicator (16-250 mph range)
* Analog VSI (+/-1600 ft/min range)
* Digital VSI (+/-10.000 ft/min range)
* Automatic flight duration timer
* Real time clock for local time and flight log use
* Engine RPM gauge, programmable for different engine types
* Density altimeter
* Barometer (actual local pressure)
* True airspeed (TAS display)
* Stopwatch
www.mglavionics.co.za/Docs/flight2.pdf
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Taildragger
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Bob,
Finally talked to ZAC and they faxed me the drawings. there are photo guide
pages for TD online. From what I can see from looking at the drawings
instead of working Monday, you will have to remove the tie down ring and
install the tail spring forward pickup on the front HT frame. is your rear
fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place?
BJC
>From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:57:53 -0600
>
>My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already installed.
>i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the drawings.
>Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Sewell
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>
>
> Brad,
>
> As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage assembly had
>to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center hole
>for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start when
>you begin work on the forward fuselage floor.
>
> Take a look at my web site for some pictures.
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm
>
> Bill Sewell
> N601BZ
>
>
> On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen wrote:
>
> I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran
>down
> my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the
> tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD
> blueprint page with the parts shipment.
>
> Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the
>bottom
> skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the
>taildragger
> specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to
>make
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Recieved my Olfa knives in less than 24 hrs from shopkitchenworld.ca. They were
10.48 each. If you REALLY need em, you can find em here. I doubt I will ever
deal with them again. I had to call and give my credit card 3 times over a 10
day period.
They work great. cut a .025 alum. sheet in 7 swipes and a snap.
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance
in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147651#147651
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Glass Panels
Hi Andy,
My plane is not done yet, so I am not really using
anything. However, my plan is to have only EFIS/EIS from Dynon with
no "Backup" gauges. I do have an LRI I built while waiting for my
wing kit, but I don't consider it a backup for the EFIS.
The reason I don't feel a need for steam gauge backup for the EFIS is
I don't plan to fly my plane under IFR. The EFIS actually makes a
very nice and complete panel for occasional instrument flight, but
since it is a single box it would not be reasonable to depend on it
for planned IFR flying. That is because a single failure in the EFIS
could leave you with no way to fly the plane.
In my case the EFIS is itself a backup for visual control with
outside reference. If you are planning a real IFR plane then I would
suggest you add at least a turn and bank indicator along with an
altimeter and probably airspeed for partial panel flight if the EFIS
croaks. Perhaps a GPS could be used for the altitude and speed, but
there is no way to fly in IMC without at least one gyro instrument.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 07:44 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote:
>
>Hello Listers!
>
>Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does
>everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily
>interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and
>potential weight savings - but the need for "backups"
>could erode that very quickly.
>
>Thanks
>Andy Hinsdale
________________________________________________________________________________
From: DRAGONFUEL(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Glass Panels
The Dragonfly Aviation N601BA is licensed as an ELSA and is used for flight
training for hire. We installed the Dynon EFIS 100 and EMS 120 -- ONLY, with
no backup. We did not believe that any other back up, other than "look out
the window" was needed. Sport aircraft were designed to emulate the early
simple airplanes, such as the J-3 Cub and flown for "fun" in VFR condition. No
gyros are required for VFR flight. The Dynons are probably overkill, but do
make flying with them almost a dream. Why try to simplify your airplane by
eliminating duplication and then add it back. Personally I believe that in
the long run the Dynons are simpler to operate, cheaper to purchase and
install, and will require less maintenance over the life of the airplane. Every
flight instructor is supposed to teach every student pilot to fly his/her
airplane without reference to any instrument except sound and feel, and be able
to
land it safely in an emergency. Those two Dynon monitors, or a single Dynon
180 are all you need, IMHO.
Cheers,
Bob Archibald
CH601XL/Lyc 125hp/Dynons/400 hrs.
Dragonfly Aviation
Santa Rosa, CA
PS I have been a "lurker" on this list for about 2 years, work with Michael
Heintz's Quality Sport Planes in California. I have met a number of you at
various airshows and corresponded with several of you directly. I may now
post directly to this list from time to time.
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Rob
I asked the question of PFA Engineering and they said they would endeavour
to find out from the mod application (that was about six months ago) but
they did say that they thought .063" would be ok! I have made mine out of
this material but used a .125" bend radius, which worked for me.
I think the mod is a standard mod, not mandatory or have you found out
otherwise?
If I can find the PFA e-mail to me I will send it direct to you.
Kind regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL plans builder in England
----- Original Message -----
From: "countzero" <robyboy(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
>
> UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing
> fairlead on the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated
> brackets to reduce the friction in the elevator control circuit.
>
> Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the
> sheet I should use or you used for the brackets?
>
> Rob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147445#147445
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem
to be a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how
hot they run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines.
Some "experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the
differentual pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The
smallest changes can have large effects on that differential pressure
and the resulting cooling of the engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid
Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I
never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in
the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and
let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes.
I guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the
wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the
flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is
doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle
problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this
but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see
how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this
past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and
got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar
leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as
well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke
was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this
topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual
throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight
modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the
top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from
Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find
you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
From: "countzero" <robyboy(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
You are correct it is not mandatory. The TAD has a special inspection point noted
about 'Elimination of undue friction in elevator controls' I don't think there's
another way to do it.
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147672#147672
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Glass Panels
To all of you contemplating glass panels:
My panel and wiring is complete. Almost. When I powered it up, the Dynon EMS-D10
would not light up. I disconnected the 37-pin connector and found that the
two wires that provide power to the unit do not have continuity between the connector
pins and the ends of the wires. This is part of an assembled cable from
Dynon. I had checked all the connectors that I made, but failed to check this
pre-wired cable.
Now I have this cable that is bundled with all the other "spaghetti" behind the
panel and I will either have to replace the cable or try to repair the connector
in-place. Neither is an appealing option.
Moral: Test ALL the cables for continuity BEFORE you install them, even factory
supplied cables.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 21, 2007
>From my experience and others, I sure would listen to Pete rather than
trying to re-envent the wheel. He's the best on the Jab. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is
coming my way on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a
corvair. And I disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there
are thousands of planes out their flying and most of the builders never
made baffling before and they don't have this problem, I want to tare
down the engine and check the tolerances of the cylinders and see if
there was or is a problem with the machining. I also think a lower
baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has them continental has
them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it will over heat
also I was told they don't have them I don't know never studied one very
close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of not
only getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough
to allow the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that
flows over it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling
problem otherwise they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or
trying to start a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the
sand and say there is no problem is doing a disservice to not only
themselves but every builder that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab
deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time
at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem.
My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE
find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom(at)mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to be
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the differentual
pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can have
large effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of the
engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: _steve_ (mailto:notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation
is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just
last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://
forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://
forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Glass Panels
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
It is my plan to go with a Dynon EFIS. I will also have a Garmin 496 in the panel
and as I have written here before I've tested flight under a hood with ONLY
the GPS derived 6-pack in the Garmin.
That said I will be leaving spots available for both AS and Alt should I decide
to get my IFR ticket in the plane.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147687#147687
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Just to add a data point.
I got my Olfa knife from AAA Industrial supply via Amazon.com for $8.48
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147688#147688
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Taildragger
Date: Nov 21, 2007
<<>
NO IT'S NOT
bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Cohen
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
Bob,
Finally talked to ZAC and they faxed me the drawings. there are photo
guide
pages for TD online. From what I can see from looking at the drawings
instead of working Monday, you will have to remove the tie down ring
and
install the tail spring forward pickup on the front HT frame. is your
rear
fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place?
BJC
>From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:57:53 -0600
>
>My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already
installed.
>i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the
drawings.
>Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Sewell
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>
>
> Brad,
>
> As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage
assembly had
>to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center
hole
>for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start
when
>you begin work on the forward fuselage floor.
>
> Take a look at my web site for some pictures.
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm
>
> Bill Sewell
> N601BZ
>
>
> On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen wrote:
>
>
> I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold
chill ran
>down
> my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were
for the
> tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive
the TD
> blueprint page with the parts shipment.
>
> Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing
the
>bottom
> skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the
>taildragger
> specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on
when to
>make
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
From: "swater6" <waters.scott(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Gentlemen,
This mod is to replace the fairlead on the HT frame for the lower elevator cable.
Is there a mod for the larger fairlead that is connected to the bottom of
one of the bulkheads for the top cable?
I'm building in the US but not really comfortable with two plastic fairleads here.
Anyone else replaced fairleads with pulleys that would like to share?
Thanks
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147694#147694
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
Subject: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 21, 2007
I think you are not very well informed there. Jabiru's are not any harder
than any other engine to cool and probably easier than corvair's and VW's.
Install them with the same differential pressure between top and bottom cowl
and you will get the same cooling performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide
less than required differential pressure and you will have inadequate
cooling on any of the engines. Provide adequate pressure drop across the
cylinders and any of the aircraft engines will cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom(at)mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to be
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the
differentual pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest
changes can have large effects on that differential pressure and the
resulting cooling of the engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve <mailto:notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet
some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete
Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don
Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there
filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the
things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest
ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the
cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but
you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the
back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went
over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions
hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took
during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Subject: Tom Henderson
As many of you know I started a thread concerning Tom Henderson and the fact
he was selling parts for the Zenith 601 xl and in all fairness to Tom I have
to say that today I received a postal money order for the full amount that
was sent to him for the wing tanks. I feel it is important to speak up when
someone is doing something wrong but it is equally as important to offer praise
when they do the right thing also.
I want to thank Tom for the money order and hope he gets things together and
fulfills the other orders that builders have been waiting for.
Best of luck
Jeff
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Glass Panels and back-ups
Date: Nov 21, 2007
As with any issue we discuss on the list, there are as many answers as
there are people to ask. Craig's answer is, "Why add steam gauges when I
installed a glass panel unit to get rid of them?" Good answer. My answer
is that I am installing two AFS AF-3400 units to get more info packed
into less space and displayed in a format which I find more intuitive.
The point for me is to be able to sum up what the display is telling me
much more quickly so that I can act on the info with less lag time and
get my head back out of the cockpit for more of the flight.
The HSI on the EFIS screen requires only a glance to get the same data
into my brain compared to three or four times as long to get the same
situational awareness from a six-pack of steam gauges. The "picutre" of
the HSI takes me much less time and attention diverted form the outside
world. Old pilots will argue that with enough practice and experience,
the six-pack would serve me just as well. True, but the HSI on the EFIS
does it for me now not 100 or 200 hours from now. Is that a cheat? Who
knows? I think it is a good thing. The color and audible warnings
programmed into the displays warn me of various speeds, temps, pressures
etc. and can alert me more quickly if trouble is coming my way. Some
older warbirds had panels designed so that all the steam gauge needles
pointed straight up when they were "in the green". That made it faster
and easier to scan the instruments. In a similar fashion, that's what
the glass panels do for me. For some guys, it might just be eye candy or
the futile quest to be at the cutting edge of technology. For me, it is
a desire to make each flight as safe and rewarding as I can make
it....... now, today, on the very next flight.
I will differ from Craig in that I'm not on a quest to eliminate steam
gauges anymore than I am on a jihad against all wisdom teeth in my
dental practice. I only work to remove as many of the troublesome ones
as I can. Similarly, I have installed an ASI steam gauge and a Tiny Tach
in my panel to give me the absolute minimum info I want (my opinion
only) to get the plane back onto the ground if something unexpected
screws up the glass panel(s). What could possibly do that? Hell if I
know..... it wouldn't be unexpected if I could answer that, would it? I
just know that when I fly from the rear seat of my fat ultralight with
an unrated pilot in the front (solo) seat, I have a tach and ASI in the
rear seat to get me what I need to know. End of lecture... class
dismissed.
I hope that helps,
Dred
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Pete when the plane gets here I would like to fix this problem as soon as
possible, I have not worked on a jab as of yet but like a good challenge. Th
e
one thing about this engine is the unknown and what I mean by that is we hav
e
no idea what happened to it in it's first 75 hrs and that is the reason I w
ant
to tare it down and see if there were any prolonged over heating conditions
that might be the cause of the over heating now. What I would like is the
specs on the engine if you could send them to me as far as the temps go and
any
information and photos of a correctly installed baffle or mod's that help it
run cool. As you probably know just because someone holds an A&P license
doesn't make them a mechanic. I would be happy to work with you to try and
resolve this problem.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/21/2007 10:43:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete(at)usjabiru.com writes:
I think you are not very well informed there. Jabiru=99s are not any
harder
than any other engine to cool and probably easier than corvair=99s an
d VW=99s.
Install them with the same differential pressure between top and bottom cow
l
and you will get the same cooling performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide le
ss
than required differential pressure and you will have inadequate cooling on
any of the engines. Provide adequate pressure drop across the cylinders an
d
any of the aircraft engines will cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom(at)mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to b
e
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the differentu
al
pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can
have
large effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of th
e
engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: _steve_ (mailto:notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHT
s
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotj
e
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around th
e
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for update
s
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clive Richards" <s.c.richards(at)homecall.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Will check Rays 601HD when at airfield Friday the Sketch he used of Mod no
10366 is stronger than the current PFA Drawing it shows 11/2 inch x 11/2
inch x 1/8th inch & the length is 6 inches pulley 2 inch OD it is installed
where control cable angle changes as cable will saw through a plastic
fairlead in UK, not it seems in US .
The PFA could not find their mod at time of rays inspection.
G CBDG 179 Hrs
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl(at)pohltec.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Elevator Control Friction
>
> Rob: I am also interested in the sheet-thickness of the bracket. For the
> ones who don't know the link to the modification, here it is:
>
> http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf
>
> Cheers Martin
>
> --------
> Martin Pohl
> Zodiac XL QBK
> 8645 Jona, Switzerland
> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147551#147551
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 21, 2007
What horse power does a Jabiru 3300 give at 2600 rpm?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
Pros-
No need for the counter balance cable.
Positive control connection.
Cons
Weight
Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Date: Nov 21, 2007
FYI
See http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/charles.long@gm.com.10.23.2005/
for some good ideas on cooling.
Also, at 2600 rpm per the Jab manual's performance curve graph,
available online from Jab USA at http://www.usjabiru.com/), H.P =
about 105/ torque about 203 ft-lbs
Hope this helps.
Tony Graziano
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 N493TG
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Gig,
I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of the
wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank
connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me) is
the size of rod that would be required. Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers
on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"Gig Giacona" wrote:
>
>Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
>
>Pros-
>No need for the counter balance cable.
>Positive control connection.
>
>Cons
>Weight
>Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Subject: What is an LRI?
Hello All:
I have seen many references to a LRI what does it do and how
does it work. Thanks.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What is an LRI?
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2007
Lift Reserve Indicator - basically an angle of attack indicator. I suggest you
run a search on either term.... there was a lot of discussion on it in the past.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147754#147754
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
I have not done it but I'm been entertaining the idea of having cables running
from the aileron bellcrank to another bellcrank in rib #1 and then a pushrod from
the bellcrank in rib #1 to the aileron torque tube horn 6B17-4.
My reason for this is because I would like to be able to remove/attach the wings
without having to go inside the fuselage and deal with the aileron cables.
When removing the wing, this mod will allow disconnection of the ailerons by just
removing the pushrod from the bellcrank in rib #1. This will require a slotted
opening in the fuselage to allow clearance for the bellcrank to move, a boot
could cover this opening from the inside.
Of course, if I decide pursuing this route I will submit it to ZAC for approval.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
Pros-
No need for the counter balance cable.
Positive control connection.
Cons
Weight
Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
With any engine, name it Jabiru, Rotax, Corvair, water cooled auto conversion
(all and any of them). We needs a well designed cowling for the engine and/or
the radiator.
Is not easy, is like choosing or carving a propeller, -- If we are going to
carve it, we need to start with something that is working in simlar aplications
before doing our own, or buy one of the advised brands (Sesenich, Warp, etc
to name only two) --
To get a good working cowling, the best route for us homebuilders, I think is
to buy a Firewall Forward kit for your airplane (includes the cowling), Then
do any little mod needed, in case the temperatures are not the perfect ones,
using the advise of REAL flyers in type, from this lists... (Not from me yet,
will start my first Jabiru instalation in a 601 XL in a few weeks).
I have already installed 5 Rotax 912 engines, only two was in the numbers
for temperatures since the first flight, the other 3 needed a little tweek (sp?)
in the cooling system, finally all work perfectly in our area and altitudes...
Same happened with the propellers (performance), they needed to find
the perfect degrees in each aplications.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Building a 601 XL (Jab powered)
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
PS: Homebuild Help Videos are Great Help!
Pete Krotje wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I think you are not very
well informed there. Jabirus are not any harder than any other engine to
cool and probably easier than corvairs and VWs. Install them with the same differential
pressure between top and bottom cowl and you will get the same cooling
performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide less than required differential pressure
and you will have inadequate cooling on any of the engines. Provide adequate
pressure drop across the cylinders and any of the aircraft engines will
cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
---------------------------------
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to
be a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some "experimenters"
just don't understand the critical nature of the differentual pressure
required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can have large
effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of the engine.
bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer with
a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could get
the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let her
do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I guess
they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want to
tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com
writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past weekend
at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some fellow
Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark
Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane
we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated
Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was interested in
seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires
some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed
on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in
the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler installation. I understand
that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached
are a few pictures I took during the class as well
!
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Gig,
The "rod" would have to be a tube at 8 feet, but more a concern would be
the support and attachment of the bellcrank designed for a pull-pull
rather than a push-pull arrangement. That has greater implications for
failure, long term. The other is the length of the tube and the
frequency of vibration it may acquire from the aircraft.
The lesser problem swinging an arc with a tube of proper diameter, (
3/4" diameter or more) would likely encroach on the clearance inside.
Simplicity is always better and cable is simple. I believe "being
do-able" and "a better alternative" are not the same thing here.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
>
> Gig,
>
> I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of
the wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank
connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me)
is the size of rod that would be required. Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers
on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
>> Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
>>
>> Pros-
>> No need for the counter balance cable.
>> Positive control connection.
>>
>> Cons
>> Weight
>> Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
>>
>> --------
>> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>> 601XL Under Construction
>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Glass Panels
i am all dynon 100 and 120 with no Back up steam guages, its a waist of weight
and money. want insurance, get the back up battery and compass. you can see
my lay out on zentih website.
To test it i shut the master switch off and flew a few touch and goes on just B/U
battery on EFIs. did just fine. Used hand held for radio work.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: DRAGONFUEL(at)aol.com
>Sent: Nov 21, 2007 2:14 AM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glass Panels
>
>The Dragonfly Aviation N601BA is licensed as an ELSA and is used for flight
>training for hire. We installed the Dynon EFIS 100 and EMS 120 -- ONLY, with
>no backup. We did not believe that any other back up, other than "look out
>the window" was needed. Sport aircraft were designed to emulate the early
>simple airplanes, such as the J-3 Cub and flown for "fun" in VFR condition.
No
>gyros are required for VFR flight. The Dynons are probably overkill, but do
>make flying with them almost a dream. Why try to simplify your airplane by
>eliminating duplication and then add it back. Personally I believe that in
>the long run the Dynons are simpler to operate, cheaper to purchase and
>install, and will require less maintenance over the life of the airplane. Every
>flight instructor is supposed to teach every student pilot to fly his/her
>airplane without reference to any instrument except sound and feel, and be able
to
>land it safely in an emergency. Those two Dynon monitors, or a single Dynon
>180 are all you need, IMHO.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Bob Archibald
>CH601XL/Lyc 125hp/Dynons/400 hrs.
>Dragonfly Aviation
>Santa Rosa, CA
>
>PS I have been a "lurker" on this list for about 2 years, work with Michael
>Heintz's Quality Sport Planes in California. I have met a number of you at
>various airshows and corresponded with several of you directly. I may now
>post directly to this list from time to time.
>
>
>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
>products.
>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Cargo Tie down rings
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Thanks,
I think I found it. Does "Approach and landing accidents" sound right for
the title?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
----- Original Message -----
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cargo Tie down rings
>
> Raymond,
> faasafety.gov (FAASafety.gov) [announce(at)faasafety.gov] in conjunction with
> the Idaho State Aeronautics put this program in Boise a couple of weeks
> ago.
> Very informative!
> Mack
>
> --------
> The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146451#146451
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its
always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to b
e thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehic
le. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter.
First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days.
Have a great day,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
601XL/Corvair
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE
!
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07
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Way to go, Scott. If the FAA had thought otherwise, I would have been
shocked...and tempted to put down my building tools!
Congratulations on a very special day. Keep the camera rolling when your
bird takes flight.
Larry Winger
601XL/Corvair
Tustin, CA
On Nov 22, 2007 8:45 AM, Scott Laughlin wrote:
> Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
>
> Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to
> be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy
> vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and
> winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming
> days.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> 601XL/Corvair
>
> ------------------------------
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!<http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congratulations, Scott! Happy Thanksgiving!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Laughlin
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be
thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle.
The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First
flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days.
Have a great day,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
601XL/Corvair
_____
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
<http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Scott - A great big CONGRATULATIONS !!
You'd better get "high behind" 'cause I know how quickly Omaha can get knee deep
in white stuff in the Winter.
Jay in Dallas
Scott Laughlin wrote:
>Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
>
>Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be thankful
for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle. The
certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First flight
will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days.
>
>Have a great day,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
>601XL/Corvair
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
>http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
From: "rroberts" <n701rr(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congrats Scott ! !
--------
Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147951#147951
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
From: "eddies" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congratulations Scott,
It must be a great feeling, I'm looking forward to hearing you first flight report.
Eddie Seve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147958#147958
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congratulations Scott. Time to start building again?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147965#147965
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed
everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that
seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it
back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will
the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need
to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block?
Lost in Lindenwold
912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Hi Geoff,
The short answer is to run two cables from the battery to the engine
compartment - positive and negative leads from the battery. Then
build your single point ground at the firewall some place.
Many people think using the aluminum structure for electrical ground
is a problem anyway. I think it is good for some things but not
everything. I wouldn't run the main starter circuit (the one with
the heavy cables) through the skin. However, I chose to run the
return (ground) from my strobe light supplies through the wing
structures. For me it is a matter of how much current is involved
and how often and how hard it switches.
I don't think the rivets would do a great job of connecting
everything electrically. If you want to know for sure you can use an
ohm-meter (one of the functions on a cheap multimeter) to measure the
resistance between any two points of interest.
Have fun,
Paul
XL fuselage
Retired electrical engineer
At 01:11 PM 11/22/2007, you wrote:
>
>I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my
>airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the
>knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the
>passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts
>are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me
>out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a
>ground wire all the way back to the engine block?
> Lost in Lindenwold
>
>912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congratulations Scott ,another job well done with the Laughlin's in
action . Have a happy Thanksgiving
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Laughlin
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else
to be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an
airworthy vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of
snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up
in the coming days.
Have a great day,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
601XL/Corvair
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
The idea of running two cables and having a common ground point is a good one.
That said, the large number of rivets used in your plane's construction should
provide ample continuity for ground return for lights, strobes, etc.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147976#147976
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Geoff,
I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you have but a small
amount of sandpaper
or Scotch Brite. The link below shows the tray and base I used to get a
ground via the
cross support. Probably a dozen rivets involved, but you see the ground
for both batteries
and I've never had any difficulty with the back feed or connections.
Much easier to change
batteries this way as well. check out the link.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/chargebatteryconnection.gif
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Geoff Heap wrote:
>
> I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I
primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now
that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground
it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will
the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need
to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block?
> Lost in Lindenwold
>
> 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
Looking for outlook and opinions.
For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered about
the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing through them.
I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not even building yet.
However, it seems to me that a better way would be to use a pulley to "bend"
or re-route the cables to the required positions. Any other airframe plans
that I've studied uses pulleys rather than nylon fairleads.
Guys that have some hours on their airframe:
Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the rudder
fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page 6-B-23 of the
plans.
I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might be
looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley modification
on previous links looks interesting and is something like I had envisioned.
Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a wheel that rolls just
fine?
What are your opinions?
Dave Thompson
Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop
No money to build.Yet
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
I ran 2 wires and grounded to the engine Mount. My battery is also behind
the seat. I don't like the idea of using the airframe as the main grounding
point. If the plane didn't have a starter it would be fine but it does so I
think 2 wires is the way to go.
This was a rough pic of the battery and not finished but you get the idea.
In a message dated 11/22/2007 4:12:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stol10(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap"
I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I
primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have
now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I
ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other
electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I
need? Do
I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block?
Lost in Lindenwold
912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Dave
My fairleads are very close to being in the line of travel for the
cables and I am not seeing wear. The highest point of friction in the
control system that I experienced was at the lower nose wheel bearing
block. Initially it had a clamping pressure that interfered with the
rudder action since the nose wheel steering is connected to the rudder
pedals. I found that a thin shim of 0.025 between the left and right
halves was needed to free up the motion. I can still feel it while in
the air but it is not very irritating because once centered the 601XL
does not require much attention to the rudder to keep the ball centered
during normal flight. I expect with time I will get the extra 1/1000
inch as wear and it will then be a non issue.
I would suggest everybody elevate the nose wheel and try the rudder
pedal action before flight.
Gary Ray 601XL 58 hours TT
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
Looking for outlook and opinions.
For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered
about the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing
through them. I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not
even building yet. However, it seems to me that a better way would be to
use a pulley to "bend" or re-route the cables to the required positions.
Any other airframe plans that I've studied uses pulleys rather than
nylon fairleads.
Guys that have some hours on their airframe:
Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the
rudder fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page
6-B-23 of the plans.
I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might
be looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley
modification on previous links looks interesting and is something like I
had envisioned. Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a
wheel that rolls just fine?
What are your opinions?
Dave Thompson
Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop
No money to build.Yet
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "RayStL" <ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
C-GJRL finally flew yesterday. It has in-flight adjustable prop. I had done a crow
hop on Sunday with the prop at min pitch and flaps up. That required full
back stick to flare with no margin. The min pitch was way too fine the engine
was not being loaded at all and the plane barely hauled itself off the ground.
For the flight yesterday, I set the pitch to midway and took off with half flaps
(nominally 15 degrees). That was a much better setting. It climbed well.
I was pleased with the lightness of the controls and their balance. Used half flaps
for landing as recommend for the Pegastol wing. The landing was easily controllable
with plenty of stick margin on the flare.
The aircraft trimmed way too nose down even with max aft trim. It is true that
I was near the forward C of G and the forward limit for the Pegastol is set at
10% of Mean Aerodynamic Chord as opposed the standard 701 which is a 20%.
Regardless I will be doing the elevator edge bend removal that others have found
useful in these situations.
I am waiting for better weather to fly again. I am in New Brunswick, Canada which
had freezing rain today and snow flurries forecast for tomorrow. Sigh.
-- Ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148010#148010
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tied_down_132.gif
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction
Hi, Dave! I, too, had my initial misgivings about the stone-simple method of routing
control cables through nylon blocks, but it's turned out to be a brilliantly
simple way of doing things. Unlike Dr. Ray, I haven't had any binding issues
at all with the rudder.
My airplane now has roughly 95 hours on it since it was completed, and the controls
feel pretty much the same as they did during those first flights just over
a year ago.
After owning quite a few airplanes with much more complex control systems, it's
actually a bit of a relief to fly around in something so straightforward and
basic as the 601XL with the Corvair engine.
My advice? Find something better to worry about. ;-)
Rick Lindstrom
N42KP
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Thompson <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Nov 22, 2007 3:44 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
>
>Looking for outlook and opinions.
>
>
>
>For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered about
>the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing through them.
>I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not even building yet.
>However, it seems to me that a better way would be to use a pulley to "bend"
>or re-route the cables to the required positions. Any other airframe plans
>that I've studied uses pulleys rather than nylon fairleads.
>
>
>
>Guys that have some hours on their airframe:
>
>
>
>Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the rudder
>fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page 6-B-23 of the
>plans.
>
>
>
>I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might be
>looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley modification
>on previous links looks interesting and is something like I had envisioned.
>Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a wheel that rolls just
>fine?
>
>
>
>What are your opinions?
>
>
>
>Dave Thompson
>
>Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop
>
>No money to build.Yet
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
Congrats on the first flight!
I am just starting but I am pretty much sold on th 1.3l Suzi, for the price VS
claimed performance. Any comments regarding this on your plane?
I am also considering the wing that you are using but initial inquiries are looking
to be a little expensive. And as such, I also would be interested in your
STOL and cruise specs.
Best Regards
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148016#148016
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2007
I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will be
with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had two
left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts. if
anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I am just finishing
up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy and finally install
the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection. Should be done by
the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
90% done / 90% To Go
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right hand threads???? It's
been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check this. I think they do
this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the only adjustments are in
the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread and one right they can come
apart and you wouldn't know it until (In terms of rigging and cable tension)
they came apart. Also because they are right hand thread you don't have to
safety wire them. If you have left and right you will have to safety wire them
and that could be a pain.
If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"
I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will
be with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had
two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4"
bolts. if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I am
just finishing up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy and
finally install the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection. Should be
done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
90% done / 90% To Go
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Forget that last post it is early and I couldn't see the complete subject
line.
In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"
I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will
be with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had
two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4"
bolts. if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I am
just finishing up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy and
finally install the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection. Should be
done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
90% done / 90% To Go
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "rroberts" <n701rr(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Congrats Ray! Keep us posted on that 1.3L. I too have the IVO inflight adjustable
but I used the ground adjustable hub for my first flight setting the prop
at 10.5 degrees. Max RPM was about 5400....
Can you send me a photo of how you mounted your hub brushes?
AGAIN CONGRATS [Exclamation] [Exclamation]
Rick
--------
Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148035#148035
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
If you truly have short enough engagement to allow useful adjustment, then R/H
to R/H can come loose - the one end simply backs down in to the other and separates.
Safety everything! The only reason for R/H - L/H over R/H - R/H (in my
opinion) is that you do not have to disassemble to make adjustments.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote: Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right
hand threads???? It's been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check
this. I think they do this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the
only adjustments are in the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread
and one right they can come apart and you wouldn't know it until (In terms of
rigging and cable tension) they came apart. Also because they are right hand
thread you don't have to safety wire them. If you have left and right you will
have to safety wire them and that could be a pain.
If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, adnasap(at)bellsouth.net
writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"
I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will
be with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had
two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.
if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I
am just finishing up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy
and finally install the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection.
Should be done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current
pace.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
90% done / 90% To Go
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017
---------------------------------
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of 2007.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Hey you guys in MN, where do you get your Al from?
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148041#148041
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
As usual everyone came through. Thanks for the help. This is why I send Matt Draille
60 bucks every year. I have to go with the majority. I'm sure I wont regret
having a better electrical system.
Now the question becomes. How close can I have these two cables to each other?
I'm assuming it would be a problem running them side by side....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148043#148043
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Thanks Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148044#148044
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
If you cut the rods to the correct length they can't back out. They come
within a 1/16 if an inch of bottoming out so even if it did come loose it would
bottom the other end and still be safe. No need to safety unless you cut the
threaded rods too short. On RH RH only.
In a message dated 11/23/2007 7:53:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com writes:
If you truly have short enough engagement to allow useful adjustment, then
R/H to R/H can come loose - the one end simply backs down in to the other and
separates. Safety everything! The only reason for R/H - L/H over R/H - R/H
(in my opinion) is that you do not have to disassemble to make adjustments.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right hand threads???? It's
been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check this. I think they do
this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the only adjustments are in
the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread and one right they can come
apart and you wouldn't know it until (In terms of rigging and cable tension)
they came apart. Also because they are right hand thread you don't have to
safety wire them. If you have left and right you will have to safety wire them
and that could be a pain.
If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:
I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will
be with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had
two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4"
bolts. if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I am
just finishing up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy and
finally install the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection. Should be
done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
90% done / 90% To Go
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
I run both of them on the right side and tuck them into the trim below the
canopy arm. Then run the ground to the engine mount and then ground the mount
to the engine. I also run the starter relay on the inside of the firewall so
the only high voltage that passes thru the firewall is when the starter is
engaged.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/23/2007 8:08:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stol10(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap"
As usual everyone came through. Thanks for the help. This is why I send Matt
Draille 60 bucks every year. I have to go with the majority. I'm sure I wont
regret having a better electrical system.
Now the question becomes. How close can I have these two cables to each
other? I'm assuming it would be a problem running them side by side....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148043#148043
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
You would not get away with not safetying rod ends up here in Canada.
The Spruce catalog has a diagram showing the acceptable methods.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Happy belated Thanksgiving and good luck with the flight testing. I have learned
a great deal watching your progress, keep posting.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148069#148069
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: 601corvair <airvair601(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: hds drawing
Does anyone have a moderate to high resolution drawing image of an HDS? I am
playing with photoshop and paint schemes and am assessing images for a place to
start, thanks phill
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: hds drawing
Hi Phil,
The attached *.jpg image is what I began with and it helped a lot, but
I finally used a digital image to "do a final revised paint on my HDS"
in Photo Shop.
It's a neat program and it allows you to change and save back copies
that you can
compare until you get comfortable with what you're after.
photoshop and then final paint shown in link below.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601-Bayou-Blue-Idaho-Snow-n.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezfrontright.gif
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
601corvair wrote:
> Does anyone have a moderate to high resolution drawing image of an
> HDS? I am
> playing with photoshop and paint schemes and am assessing images for
> a place to
> start, thanks phill
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "ablebob" <rastacey(at)nl.rogers.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Congrats on your new baby!. Looks real sharp!
I am about 1000 km east of you and just ordered the 701 plans to see if buying
the kit or finding the materials is the best way to go.
Keep us posted.
Bob Stacey
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148084#148084
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
The rivets ought to do the job. To test whether or not you have
continuity through the airframe, use a charged battery and a long jumper
wire (14 - 16 AWG). Clip the jumper wire to the formed head of a rivet
the rear of the fuselage. Connect the other end of the wire to one lead
of a multimeter and check continuity to some part of the airframe near
the firewall. If you don't have decent continuity, you may have to
install a ground buss back in the aft section and run a heavy wire (12 -
14 AWG) all the way back to the firewall area ground buss.
All my airframe parts have been either primed or primed and painted as I
assembled the plane and I have continuity through out my airframe so I
doubt that you'll have a problem.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Heap
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed
airframe.
I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my
airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the
knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the
passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are
isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out?
Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground
wire all the way back to the engine block?
Lost in Lindenwold
912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968
--
11/23/2007 9:19 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Good for lights..... not good for the strobes, strobe driver, or
electrical motors. Those tend to be electrically noisy and should have a
dedicted shielded ground wire with the shield grounded at one end as
near the engine as possible.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed
airframe.
The idea of running two cables and having a common ground point is a
good one. That said, the large number of rivets used in your plane's
construction should provide ample continuity for ground return for
lights, strobes, etc.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147976#147976
--
11/23/2007 9:19 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Might be good to run them as a twisted pair. Electronic gurus on the
list can confirm or correct.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Heap
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed
airframe.
As usual everyone came through. Thanks for the help. This is why I
send Matt Draille 60 bucks every year. I have to go with the majority.
I'm sure I wont regret having a better electrical system.
Now the question becomes. How close can I have these two cables to
each other? I'm assuming it would be a problem running them side by
side....Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Thanks for the reply, I've checked out Aircraft Spruce and Wicks, but there is
a lot of metal fabrication in the the area so there has to be a local source.
What are they getting for shipping Al sheets?
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148100#148100
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Hey I almost forgot, your in Fort Frances right?
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148102#148102
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian McClelland" <macstar(at)raider.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Elevator Control Friction - NLG steering friction.
Date: Nov 24, 2007
I agree with the advice to check for NLG steering friction with the nose
gear fully extended, prior to first flight. My friend has scare in his 701
due to friction being so high with weight off the nose gear and the
centering block engaged that it was preventing adequate rudder control!
Ian McClelland
601XL scratch builder.
Working on Fuselage.
10:58 p.m.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
I'm stumped and the drawings /photo guide aren't as clear to me as I would like.SOOOOOOO
Here's the question
Page 5 of the photo guide WING JIG REF 6-B-14
I'm trying to drill the holes in the spar insert but I'm not quite sure where they
go
Looking at the little drawing in the upper Right of page 5 I that one of the holes
is 132mm from the extrusion Is this the bottom hole or the top??
Once I establish that I can use the Pic at the bottom to find the other hole
And then the second question is After I get done building this jig, When is it
used?? I see no other mention of it in the photo guide after you make it??
Or do you just use it to check the spar to rear channel distance as you go along
Thanks
Larry Whitlow
601XL/Jabiru 3300 50% done 80% to go, Engine due in February
One of the last kits before the CNC kits started coming out
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148108#148108
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Jam nuts are standard. Still have to safety wire.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird!
Congrats Scott, keep us posted on how the first flight goes.
Art
--- Scott Laughlin wrote:
> Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
>
> Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be
thankful for. As
> of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle. The certificate arrived
along with
> the first day of snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather
shapes up in the
> coming days.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> 601XL/Corvair
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ron Lalonde <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Where in New Brunswick?? What airport??
I am in NS and would really like to see your 701 sometime. Especially that
wing!!
What HP does the Suzuki put out...would it be good for a 601XL.
Good luck with your flying....and yup....the weather is going to be no good
for flying for a while
Ron
> Subject: Zenith-List: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 c
c> From: ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:28:05 -0800> To:
ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com>> > C-GJRL finally flew yesterday. It has in-flight
adjustable prop. I had done a crow hop on Sunday with the prop at min pitch
and flaps up. That required full back stick to flare with no margin. The m
in pitch was way too fine the engine was not being loaded at all a
nd the plane barely hauled itself off the ground.> > For the flight yesterd
ay, I set the pitch to midway and took off with half flaps (nominally 15 de
grees). That was a much better setting. It climbed well. > > I was pleased
with the lightness of the controls and their balance. Used half flaps for l
anding as recommend for the Pegastol wing. The landing was easily controlla
ble with plenty of stick margin on the flare. > > The aircraft trimmed way
too nose down even with max aft trim. It is true that I was near the forwar
d C of G and the forward limit for the Pegastol is set at 10% of Mean Aerod
ynamic Chord as opposed the standard 701 which is a 20%.> > Regardless I wi
ll be doing the elevator edge bend removal that others have found useful in
these situations.> > I am waiting for better weather to fly again. I am in
New Brunswick, Canada which had freezing rain today and snow flurries fore
cast for tomorrow. Sigh.> > -- Ray> > --------> Ray St-Laurent> 701/Pegasto
l wings/Suzuki engine> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forum
s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148010#148010> > > > > Attachments: > > h
========================> _
======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Jam nuts are standard. Still have to safety wire.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Dave,
I just installed the aileron control rod on my right HD wing. The
control rod is threaded the entire length. The rod end bearings appear to
be MS21153. The bearing is a universal joint of sorts with a witness hole.
A jam nut came with the rod for each bearing end. I can't imagine how they
would be safetied. Can you explain?
Jeff Davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel sender gasket
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
My VDO fuel sender from ZAC came with a sealed bag of parts, which included the
mounting ring, paper washers, screws and a rubber gasket. An extra gasket, identical
to the one in the bag, was also included in the box. Is that just a
replacement? The photo guide and plans only show one rubber gasket, and that
is how I installed it.
I'm installing the fuel sender on the end of the tanks, per the plans. No mention
was made of any kind of sealant.
Any of you guys who are already flying with a similar configuration (end mount,
no sealant) could really help me out by sharing your experiences re: leaks or
no leaks.
Thanks.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces complete
Wings nearly ready to close
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148128#148128
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: ernie <ernieth(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Digital Level
Hi list.
I am currently building the right wing. Picked up a 17 dollar torpedo
digital level on sale at sears today.
It was a great help since I have cut four of the 6-b-14 templates and
not a one them was the same as the next.
Once I check it with the level I was at 81 degree's, so I was on the
right road but for short money the piece of mind was worth it.
Thanks for all the help, hope this helps some one down the road.
E.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AOA port location
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Does anyone who is building or flying the 601XL have the Angle of Attack system
from Advanced Flight Systems? I'm getting ready to install it, and would appreciate
hearing thoughts on port location.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces complete
Wings nearly ready to close
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148129#148129
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: .093 vs .125 Angle
Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
Thanks,
Art
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Kiev prop
From: "Canatukker" <waterkant(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
List I would like to hear from anybody that has some input or experience with a
Kiev prop on a Zodiac 601 912ul thanks Ron Smit :)
--------
Have fun fly save
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148136#148136
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Hi Geoff & Ed,
I guess it was me you refer to, Ed . . . :-) . . .
No, I would not suggest twisting the battery cables. These are the
extra heavy gauge wires needed to supply the 100 or so amps to the
starter for a few seconds at a time. Twisting would be appropriate
if they were high frequence signal wires, but this is a high current
DC application.
You can probably run the wires together to the engine compartment if
you like. The only caveat is you need to make sure the insulation is
not broken so a short can occur. You will probably ground the
aluminum in the airplane anyway (connect to the negative battery
contact) so the only real critical insulation is on the positive lead cable.
If you prefer to run them separately then that is fine too.
One more comment. Several guys seem to think the engine mount is a
good place to form your single ground point for the whole
plane. This means the place the negative battery lead is attached
and as many other negative lead wires as you connect to
ground. Actually, I would prefer some piece of copper or aluminum
(bus bar?) for this purpose. The steel engine mount is probably the
worst electrical conductor in the whole plane, and it would be better
to use a good conductor for this purpose.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:56 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote:
>Might be good to run them as a twisted pair. Electronic gurus on the
>list can confirm or correct.
>
>Dred
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:stol10(at)comcast.net>Geoff Heap
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:06 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a
>primed airframe.
>
><stol10(at)comcast.net>
>
>As usual everyone came through. Thanks for the help. This is why I
>send Matt Draille 60 bucks every year. I have to go with the
>majority. I'm sure I wont regret having a better electrical system.
> Now the question becomes. How close can I have these two cables
> to each other? I'm assuming it would be a problem running them side
> by side....Geoff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
Hi Larry,
The wing jigs are used to fix the location of the rear wing attach
points. They also play a roll in getting the spar carry-through
fixed at the correct angle to the longerons. They need to be made to
match the actual distance on your wings. It doesn't really matter
too much where the holes are drilled. You just need to make sure the
front part fits in same place the wing spars will eventually go into
the spar carry-through. The jig can stick out nearly any distance
from the carry-through so long as the rear feature still makes
contact with the rear wing attach point. You can wait to drill the
holes in the main spar part until you actually need to use the
jig. Then it will all be a lot more clear.
I hope that helps. If it is still not clear, please ask more
questions. This is a critical part of building your plane - making
the wings fit the fuselage.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 12:01 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote:
>
>I'm stumped and the drawings /photo guide aren't as clear to me as I
>would like.SOOOOOOO Here's the question
>
>Page 5 of the photo guide WING JIG REF 6-B-14
>
>I'm trying to drill the holes in the spar insert but I'm not quite
>sure where they go
>
>Looking at the little drawing in the upper Right of page 5 I that
>one of the holes is 132mm from the extrusion Is this the bottom
>hole or the top??
>
>Once I establish that I can use the Pic at the bottom to find the other hole
>
>And then the second question is After I get done building this jig,
>When is it used?? I see no other mention of it in the photo guide
>after you make it??
>
>Or do you just use it to check the spar to rear channel distance as
>you go along
>
>Thanks
>
>Larry Whitlow
>601XL/Jabiru 3300 50% done 80% to go, Engine due in February
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
Well, not right at this second but normally yes, I am
in Fort Frances. There is also another CH-701 scratch
builder located in International Falls as well.
Doug MacDonald
--- kmccune wrote:
>
>
> Hey I almost forgot, your in Fort Frances right?
>
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin
>
>
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: SABorns(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 weighs .200 lb/ft
Steven Bornstein
475 E. North Broadway
Columbus, Ohio 43214
614 263-5819
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: "Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
If you are refering to the 701 it's about a 4 # penalty. John
>
>Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
>3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
>does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
>one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Art
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel sender gasket
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Larry,
I bought some of the Flame Master (3oz) (Proseal) from Vans Aircraft. Gasket on
the outside of the tank. 1/8" bead of proseal on the tank around the hole and
also around the sending unit flange. Made sure to seal around the bolt holes
on the flange.
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log=42660&row=15
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148142#148142
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
I think I'm starting to get it now '[Idea]'
Dihedral isn't really critical as far as the wing jig goes. If I'm understanding
it right, the jig's primary purpose is to set the distance from the center
spar carry thru to the rear channel. thats why there is a jig for both sides,
so they can be used together, Right???
Man this is a lot of heavy metal for a simple jig. I wonder why Zac didn't just
go ahead and drill the holes in the spar jig when they drilled the center and
the main spar already as part of the kit?
Thanks Paul
Larry
psm(at)ATT.NET wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>
> The wing jigs are used to fix the location of the rear wing attach
> points. They also play a roll in getting the spar carry-through
> fixed at the correct angle to the longerons. They need to be made to
> match the actual distance on your wings. It doesn't really matter
> too much where the holes are drilled. You just need to make sure the
> front part fits in same place the wing spars will eventually go into
> the spar carry-through. The jig can stick out nearly any distance
> from the carry-through so long as the rear feature still makes
> contact with the rear wing attach point. You can wait to drill the
> holes in the main spar part until you actually need to use the
> jig. Then it will all be a lot more clear.
>
> I hope that helps. If it is still not clear, please ask more
> questions. This is a critical part of building your plane - making
> the wings fit the fuselage.
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148146#148146
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
Hi Larry,
Yes, Dihedral doesn't matter at all for the wing jig. The dihedral
is set by the relationship between the actual wing spars and the spar
carry-through. For kit builders, this is set at the factory. For
scratch builders (and wing replacers like me) the dihedral is set
when the holes are drilled in the main spars.
I think the reason there are two jigs relates to the fact that you
can't use one jig for both wings. There is a mirror image taking
place. Also, the wing jigs should be made to exactly match your
wings which may or may not be exactly the same as the drawings and/or
each other.
I don't know the answer to the question of why ZAC does or does not
drill the jig parts. I think the parts are actually mostly scrap
from the real spar construction. Besides, it really doesn't matter
where the holes are drilled. It only matters that the distance
between the front and back parts is correct. It may also be
important that the angles of those parts accurately match the wings.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 08:20 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote:
>I think I'm starting to get it now '[Idea]'
>Dihedral isn't really critical as far as the wing jig goes. If I'm
>understanding it right, the jig's primary purpose is to set the
>distance from the center spar carry thru to the rear channel. thats
>why there is a jig for both sides, so they can be used together, Right???
>
>Man this is a lot of heavy metal for a simple jig. I wonder why Zac
>didn't just go ahead and drill the holes in the spar jig when they
>drilled the center and the main spar already as part of the kit?
>
>
>Thanks Paul
>
>
>Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Cut a piece of 0.032 x 1.5 inch x 12 inches long. Weight it and that is
the delta/ft. (with a 1 inch long piece it would be the delta per inch)
Tony Graziano
------------
Subject: .093 vs .125 Angle
From: Art Olechowski (ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri Nov 23 - 7:43 PM
Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight
increase when
using the .125
3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine
the amount
is small but it
does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight
of .093
is? If not could
one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for
archiving?
Thanks,
Art
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "RayStL" <ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2007
Sure, Ron. Fredericton airport.
I am using the Raven Redrives package for the engine. They claim 90 hp.
Can;t conform that yet but the first thing I did notice about the the engine/mount
package when I fired it up was that it runs very smoothly with little vibraiton.
I think most people are putting more hp in their 601s. Raven has a turbo version of the 1300 that puts out 115 hp. I see from their website that they have a mounting package for the 601 as well http://www.raven-rotor.com/
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148154#148154
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Comments
Dear Listers,
Below are a few more of the nice comments Listers have been making along with their
Contributions in support of the Lists this year. Please make your Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
Remember, there is _no advertising budget_ to keep these Lists funded. It is
solely through your generosity that they continue.
Please make a Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
------------------------------What Listers Are Saying------------------------------
The list has been invaluable in the building of my Zenith CH701.
George R
Thanks for keeping the lists a non-commercial venue for us
to gather and share knowledge.
Neal G
What a fantastic resource!
Ralph C
It's a pretty cheep troubleshooting tool with and unlimited
resource of personal knowledge.
Bruce G
A full house of Info & Ideas...
Ellery B
I really enjoy the Piet list.
Steven D
The Lists are an indispensable resource for those of us
building OBAM aircraft.
Bret S
..a great service.
Frank D
..all in all it is a great resource if you ask specific
questions.
Richard S
Your list has really helped me in my first build.
Michael W
Always a pleasure to support this great resource...
Richard W
I enjoy the lists very much, they are very beneficial.
Bob L
Great place to chat with other builders and Flyers.
Ellery B
Your lists are a great service to builders and owners!
Richard D
A real good place for someone that is starting to get
interested into flying without investing any money at
first.
Ellery B
The list has been an great help to my building process.
David B
I'm close to finishing my Zenith 601 thanks to you and
the Zenith List.
Jeff D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Larry
I don't have my plans handy for the actual measurements.
The wing jig establishes the angle and distance between the tilted front
spar carry thru and the tilted rear spar carry thru.
I believe the hole placement is important since the dihedral and the tilt of
the spar carry thru will affect the geometry of the fit. This effect can
also be seen in the forward sweep of the wing tips after your wings are on.
Be sure that after you make the right and left jigs that they match up
perfectly when standing next to each other face to face. They are right &
left handed as are the wings. If not something is wrong. My first attempt
was off due to a slightly bad measurement and they did not match by more
than 1 inch which would have messed up my wing attachment later.
Due to storage space my wings were never matched to the fuselage until
attachment at the hanger. With accurate jigs I did not run into any
surprises. This was an item of concern. I did take the jigs to the wings,
which were built before the fuselage, to measure and compare but it is
another of the mirror image problems when measuring.
It is possible to confirm the future fit.
Gary Ray, 601XL, 58 TT
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
>
> I'm stumped and the drawings /photo guide aren't as clear to me as I would
like.SOOOOOOO Here's the question
>
> Page 5 of the photo guide WING JIG REF 6-B-14
>
> I'm trying to drill the holes in the spar insert but I'm not quite sure
where they go
>
> Looking at the little drawing in the upper Right of page 5 I that one of
the holes is 132mm from the extrusion Is this the bottom hole or the top??
>
> Once I establish that I can use the Pic at the bottom to find the other
hole
>
> And then the second question is After I get done building this jig, When
is it used?? I see no other mention of it in the photo guide after you make
it??
>
> Or do you just use it to check the spar to rear channel distance as you go
along
>
> Thanks
>
> Larry Whitlow
> 601XL/Jabiru 3300 50% done 80% to go, Engine due in February
>
> One of the last kits before the CNC kits started coming out
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148108#148108
>
>
> --
5:15 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
since Wicks lists the 0.062 at 0.106 lb/running root and 0.125 at 0.200 lb/running
foot, I would assume that the value for 0.09375 would be calculatable.
Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
Thanks,
Art
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
running them separately is desirable to minimize the potential for a battery direct
short in the case of wear or an incident. Of course with an aluminum airframe,
that may be a moot point!
Paul Mulwitz wrote: Hi Geoff & Ed,
I guess it was me you refer to, Ed . . . :-) . . .
No, I would not suggest twisting the battery cables. These are the extra heavy
gauge wires needed to supply the 100 or so amps to the starter for a few seconds
at a time. Twisting would be appropriate if they were high frequence signal
wires, but this is a high current DC application.
You can probably run the wires together to the engine compartment if you like.
The only caveat is you need to make sure the insulation is not broken so a short
can occur. You will probably ground the aluminum in the airplane anyway
(connect to the negative battery contact) so the only real critical insulation
is on the positive lead cable.
If you prefer to run them separately then that is fine too.
One more comment. Several guys seem to think the engine mount is a good place
to form your single ground point for the whole plane. This means the place the
negative battery lead is attached and as many other negative lead wires as
you connect to ground. Actually, I would prefer some piece of copper or aluminum
(bus bar?) for this purpose. The steel engine mount is probably the worst
electrical conductor in the whole plane, and it would be better to use a good
conductor for this purpose.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:56 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote:
Might be good to run them as a twisted pair. Electronic gurus on the list can
confirm or correct.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Heap
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
As usual everyone came through. Thanks for the help. This is why I send Matt
Draille 60 bucks every year. I have to go with the majority. I'm sure I wont
regret having a better electrical system.
Now the question becomes. How close can I have these two cables to each
other? I'm assuming it would be a problem running them side by side....Geoff
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
maybe 0.09375" but certainly not 0.032"???
"T. Graziano" wrote: Cut a piece of 0.032 x 1.5
inch x 12 inches long. Weight it and that is the delta/ft. (with a 1 inch
long piece it would be the delta per inch)
Tony Graziano
------------
Subject: .093 vs .125 Angle From:
Art Olechowski (ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri Nov
23 - 7:43 PM
Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
Thanks,
Art
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
John,
Kind of figured someone had determined the weight penalty. Thanks, John.
Art
--- Bolding wrote:
>
> If you are refering to the 701 it's about a 4 # penalty. John
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase
when using the .125
> >3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the
amount is small but
> it
> >does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of
.093 is? If not
> could
> >one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Art
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
Dave, As with about a third of your posts, there was no message in the original
posting. When I hit "reply", your complete posting showed up.
Jay
David Downey wrote:
>since Wicks lists the 0.062 at 0.106 lb/running root and 0.125 at 0.200 lb/running
foot, I would assume that the value for 0.09375 would be calculatable.
>
>
>Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
>3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
>does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
>one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Art
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: Electrical grounding with a primed airframe
I would run the pair of battery cables close together; twisting them is
not necessary. Here is my reasoning - long on theory and speculation!
Radiation pick-up, particularly of radio frequency, is a black art. We
have had a difficult time removing noise from a Becker transponder which
was getting onto our ICOM radio, and breaking up the transmission and
reception. We were able to trace the noise as being present on the power
bus, to which the radio was attached. The cure was to place an
(electrically isolated) Ameri-King noise filter in the power leads to the
radio. Other locations of the filter should have worked, but did not.
How does any of this apply to the question posed about the battery leads?
If the long battery leads are well separated, what you have created is one
turn of a large coil which is an integral part of the power bus. A large
turn of a coil has appreciable inductance, which can act as an antenna for
radio frequency. The inductance increases with the area of the coil; two
wires close together have only a very small coil area. In our case, we
did not have long battery leads. Nevertheless, the principles outlined
above are basically sound. Thus, if I had long battery leads, I would NOT
separate them!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa, Toronto/Waterloo.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
I don't know if you follow Bob Nucholls stuff in the Aeroelectric section, but
this topic has come up there numerous times. I'm no electrical expert so I can
only say what I have done and what experts like Bob have recommended. Basically
with an aluminum airframe there is no reason to run a ground cable forward
to the firewall. There is enough contact with the rivets, even if everything is
primed, to provide an ample path for the electrons to flow. You'll find more
resistance in a 2 G cable than you'll see in the airframe. You can also safely
ground pitot heat, landing lights, and position lights locally.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148273#148273
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Flanging Dies
Hi all just thought I would shoot out the link of the source of the machined flanging
dies.
Anyone have a set of these? If so, are you happy with results they make?
http://www.skysailor.org/
Art
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spar cap angles on 601xl
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Question for those using the butt joint method for the spar cap angles (two shorter
lengths instead of one nearly 12 foot length spar cap angle). Seeing as how
this is a work around for people with shorter bending brakes and is not in
the plans, what is the length of the doubler that spans that butt joint?
Thanks
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148275#148275
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Spar Jig Question
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Gary
After a little sleep and your's and Paul's notes, things have become much clearer.
Combined with READING THE RIGHT PAGE OF THE PLANS [Embarassed] !!!!!!!
It seems in my stupor, I never looked at 6-B-13 which clearly shows the location
of the holes. I was only looking at 6-B-14 and the Photo guide.
I feel pretty silly but thanks to you guys and the list, I have once again avoided
the dreaded STUPIDITY SYNDROME ( tm ) [Rolling Eyes]
Now back to my other hobby Nuclear Physics where accuracy is not as necessary [Wink]
Thanks Guys
Larry
davgray(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Larry
>
> I don't have my plans handy for the actual measurements.
>
> The wing jig establishes the angle and distance between the tilted front
> spar carry thru and the tilted rear spar carry thru.
>
> I believe the hole placement is important since the dihedral and the tilt of
> the spar carry thru will affect the geometry of the fit. This effect can
> also be seen in the forward sweep of the wing tips after your wings are on.
>
> Be sure that after you make the right and left jigs that they match up
> perfectly when standing next to each other face to face. They are right &
> left handed as are the wings. If not something is wrong. My first attempt
> was off due to a slightly bad measurement and they did not match by more
> than 1 inch which would have messed up my wing attachment later.
> Due to storage space my wings were never matched to the fuselage until
> attachment at the hanger. With accurate jigs I did not run into any
> surprises. This was an item of concern. I did take the jigs to the wings,
> which were built before the fuselage, to measure and compare but it is
> another of the mirror image problems when measuring.
> It is possible to confirm the future fit.
>
> Gary Ray, 601XL, 58 TT
>
>
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148276#148276
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
RE: 90hp
I just found this Dyno curve last night for the G13B. It is of a stock 1.3l GTI/GT
injected but not turbo-ed engine. I don't know what Raven does to the engine,
if anything, but stock for stock it appears to compare very nicely with
the 912S for a lot less!
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148278#148278
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/g13b_dyno_579.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ron Lalonde <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Flanging Dies
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Flanging blanks? What about a completed set..I think these need to be machi
ned
Ron
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:47:23 -0800> From: ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> Sub
ject: Zenith-List: Flanging Dies> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> > --> Zeni
th-List message posted by: Art Olechowski > > Hi a
ll just thought I would shoot out the link of the source of the machined fl
anging dies.> Anyone have a set of these? If so, are you happy with results
==================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Have fun while connecting on Messenger! Click here to learn more.
http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
Thanks Jay;
...and I am not smart enough to figure out how to fix it!
Dave, As with about a third of your posts, there was no message in the original
posting. When I hit "reply", your complete posting showed up.
Jay
David Downey
wrote:
>since Wicks lists the 0.062 at 0.106 lb/running root and 0.125 at 0.200 lb/running
foot, I would assume that the value for 0.09375 would be calculatable.
>
>
>Hey all you scratch builders have any of you calculated the weight increase when
using the .125
>3/4" X 3/4" angle opposed to the kit supplied .093 thickness? I imagine the amount
is small but it
>does reduce your useful load. Does anyone know what the per foot weight of .093
is? If not could
>one of the kit builders measure and weigh a piece, then post it for archiving?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Art
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
Hi Steve,
I'm sure you are right about the resistance of the aluminum airframe
compared to the much smaller cross section copper cable. However, I
don't think this is the only issue.
It seems to me that it is much safer to use the ground cable to get
from a remote battery to the engine compartment. If you rely on the
airframe for this purpose, I would certainly install an avionics
master switch and make sure the avionics are isolated when the
starter is operated.
I realize there is a weight penalty using the copper cable for
grounding the battery. However, moving the weight around to get the
CG in order is the whole point of moving the battery anyway. OK,
this is a lame argument . . .
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:40 AM 11/24/2007, you wrote:
>I don't know if you follow Bob Nucholls stuff in the Aeroelectric
>section, but this topic has come up there numerous times. I'm no
>electrical expert so I can only say what I have done and what
>experts like Bob have recommended. Basically with an aluminum
>airframe there is no reason to run a ground cable forward to the
>firewall. There is enough contact with the rivets, even if
>everything is primed, to provide an ample path for the electrons to
>flow. You'll find more resistance in a 2 G cable than you'll see in
>the airframe. You can also safely ground pitot heat, landing lights,
>and position lights locally.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601 HD power VS speed
From: "Canatukker" <waterkant(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
eedetail wrote:
> 80 HP Rotax 912UL.
> 105 mph TAS at about 4900 rpm, 4.7 gph (I figure 5gph)
> Note that factory says 75% power at 8000 feet is 5800 rpm, full throttle.
> Ivo inflight adjustable 3 blade prop, I will be adding a MAP gage, so more experimentation
is in order.
> TimE
How big(long) are Your Ivo blades I have used In flight adjust before on a Fisher
Super Koala 912 and was very happy with it take off like a rocket
now i'm looking to put one on my zodiac 601 ul 912 ul thanks for You'r replay
Ron.
P.S. I also have my eye on a Kiev or Kool prop. if anyone has some input I'm looking
forward to it.
--------
Have fun fly save
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148312#148312
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
From: "Bryan Ekholm" <bryanekholm(at)excite.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Kevin,
I bought my sheet and plate aluminum from Erickson Metals in Coon Rapids, MN, a
suburb to the North-West of Minneapolis. The Aluminum tube I picked up from
Discount Steel and Aluminum in Minneapolis.
Bryan Ekholm
--------
Bryan Ekholm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148319#148319
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 Arm rest/console
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Here it is,
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148327#148327
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/armrest_892.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum source in Minneapolis/ST Paul
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Thanks for the info guys! I hope to meet you guys to see what my pile of parts
can be!
Kevin
PS I get to Coon Rapids every once in awhile so that should work.
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148328#148328
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Flanging Dies
Ron,
I'm glad you looked at those closer than I did, your absolutly correct they are
flanging blanks.
Art
--- Ron Lalonde wrote:
> Flanging blanks? What about a completed set..I think these need to be machined
> Ron
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:47:23 -0800> From: ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject:
Zenith-List:
> Olechowski > > Hi all just thought I would shoot out
the link of the
> source of the machined flanging dies.> Anyone have a set of these? If so, are
you happy with
> results==================> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Have fun while connecting on Messenger! Click here to learn more.
> http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" <infow(at)mts.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Subject: Flanging Dies
Art..
Check these out... Ron
:-{
:-{
:-{ Ron,
:-{ I'm glad you looked at those closer than I did, your absolutly
:-{ correct they are flanging blanks.
:-{
:-{
:-{ Art
:-{
:-{ --- Ron Lalonde wrote:
:-{
:-{:-{ Flanging blanks? What about a completed set..I think these
:-{:-{ need to be machined Ron
:-{:-{
:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:47:23 -0800> From:
:-{:-{:-{ ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Zenith-List:
:-{:-{:-{
:-{:-{ Flanging Dies> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> > --> Zenith-
:-{:-{ List message posted by: Art Olechowski
:-{:-{ > > Hi all just thought I would
:-{:-{ shoot out the link of the source of the machined flanging
:-{:-{ dies.> Anyone have a set of these? If so, are you happy with
:-{:-{ results==================> > >
:-{:-{ _________________________________________________________________
Have
:-{:-{ fun while connecting on Messenger! Click here to learn more.
:-{:-{ http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
:-{
:-{
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Is this the splice you are talking about? Found it on ch601.org
http://ch601.org/resources/rear%20spar/601xl_rear_spar_splice.htm
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148348#148348
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: AOA port location
Date: Nov 24, 2007
Are you worried about the distance fore/aft distance from the leading edge
or from the wing tip or both? AFS's install manual gives some guidance on
cord distance. I have embedded 5 pictures of the right wing of Mike Sigman's
601XL (N7092N). Basically he placed the probes forward (but close to) the
spar and outside (but close to) the outmost nose rib. Just don't forget to
offset the upper and lower probes so they don't hit when you close the wing
J.
My reading indicates that the placement is not extremely critical and that
the calibration can accommodated a range of placements.
If the pictures don't make it through let me know and I'll mail them to you
direct.
-- Craig
IMG_0938
IMG_0937
IMG_0930
IMG_0931
IMG_0932
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: hds drawing
Back in the mid 80's my Dad, Brother & I built a Quickie. We put together a
three view line drawing and took copies to the local City College Art
Department. We found an art teacher who agreed to distribute them to the Art
Students. We offered a gift Certificate for Dinner for two at a local
restaurant for the best paint scheme. We got over 30 entries back!
We got some very interesting ideas back, some elegant and some, well not so.
The end result was a mixture of ideas. We ended up giving a Pizza party for
all the people who wanted to come see the plane after it was painted.
We had lots of fun and got a bunch of good ideas.
Dave Thompson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Control rod ends.
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Had a senior's moment yesterday re lock wiring the above. Transport Canada
inspectors don't require lockwire on rod ends. They look for thread lock
(blue) and index marks so that you can see if the jam nuts have moved. I
used red dots.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Auto list reply
From: broberts103(at)gvtc.com
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Sorry listers,
When I opened the digest on my blackberry it instantly replied with the entire
digest. My apologies.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cort Sims" <cortsims(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
Date: Nov 25, 2007
I got .1532 lb (rounded off) per foot for 0.09375. At that rate if you used
about 85 feet of .125 you would increase the total weight of the aircraft by
4 pounds over the kit supplied materials.
Cort Sims,
cortsims(at)verizon.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2007
From: Elden Jacobson <eldenej(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: ground school
As with at least some of you, I have not flown for a good many years. But LSA now
offers an unexpected and very welcome opportunity to change that. I do not
expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft itself, but it is obvious
that the larger picture has changed almost beyond recognition, what with radios,
controlled airspace, towers, etc.; in brief, the stuff of "ground school."
I would be very interested in what those of you out there have found to be the
most helpful materials--written, dvd's, etc.--in becoming current again.
Thanks,
Elden
xl/3300
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: hds drawing
Date: Nov 25, 2007
I took a 3 view line drawing to a Grade 5 class and let them at it for
an art project. You may find that you have to refine some of the finer
points but of all the pictures I got back I was able to see 3 paint
schemes I would enjoy. Be creative in you rapproach.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Thompson
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: hds drawing
Back in the mid 80=92s my Dad, Brother & I built a Quickie. We put
together a three view line drawing and took copies to the local City
College Art Department. We found an art teacher who agreed to distribute
them to the Art Students. We offered a gift Certificate for Dinner for
two at a local restaurant for the best paint scheme. We got over 30
entries back!
We got some very interesting ideas back, some elegant and some, well not
so. The end result was a mixture of ideas. We ended up giving a Pizza
party for all the people who wanted to come see the plane after it was
painted.
We had lots of fun and got a bunch of good ideas.
Dave Thompson
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
11/24/2007 5:58 PM
11/24/2007 5:58 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: .093 vs .125 Angle
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Fellow builders
Don't forget that you have to bend the upper front longerons 6B11-1 to a
curvature around the cockpit. The .093 angle supplied by CZAW (and I assume
Zenith in the States) has a square intersection of legs i.e. the was no
internal radius in the corner. The thicker angle, particularly if radiused,
will need more force to bend.
Hope this is a help not a hindrance.
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL plans builder in England
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cort Sims" <cortsims(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: .093 vs .125 Angle
>
> I got .1532 lb (rounded off) per foot for 0.09375. At that rate if you
> used
> about 85 feet of .125 you would increase the total weight of the aircraft
> by
> 4 pounds over the kit supplied materials.
> Cort Sims,
> cortsims(at)verizon.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: ground school
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Hello:
As new comer to the list, I would suggest that you find a older flight
instructor.
Chet
----- Original Message -----
From: Elden Jacobson
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: ground school
As with at least some of you, I have not flown for a good many years.
But LSA now offers an unexpected and very welcome opportunity to change
that. I do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft
itself, but it is obvious that the larger picture has changed almost
beyond recognition, what with radios, controlled airspace, towers, etc.;
in brief, the stuff of "ground school."
I would be very interested in what those of you out there have found
to be the most helpful materials--written, dvd's, etc.--in becoming
current again.
Thanks,
Elden
xl/3300
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Be a better pen pal.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Not the rear spar splice, the butt joint for the spar cap angles on the main spar.
They can be made in two sections, but there should be a doubler that spans
the joint.
Thanks
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Is this the splice you are talking about? Found it on ch601.org
>
> http://ch601.org/resources/rear%20spar/601xl_rear_spar_splice.htm
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148440#148440
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: ground school
Hi Eldon,
I agree with you that there have been lots of changes, but it is
still the same air out there.
I found the Airman's Information Manual to be very helpful. You can
get the whole thing online for free from the FAA web site along with
many other very useful documents for builders and pilots of all
types. There is also an FAA Safety web site that can be very helpful
and will also tell you about safety meetings in your area if you give
them your email address.
If you read up on the new names for the same old airspace and get a
Flight Review with an instructor that should get you well along the
way to being up to date. All that remains after that is to polish up
your personal pilot skills to an adequate level.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
(Mostly inactive pilot for the last 15 or 20 years)
At 12:07 PM 11/25/2007, you wrote:
>As with at least some of you, I have not flown for a good many
>years. But LSA now offers an unexpected and very welcome opportunity
>to change that. I do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the
>aircraft itself, but it is obvious that the larger picture has
>changed almost beyond recognition, what with radios, controlled
>airspace, towers, etc.; in brief, the stuff of "ground school."
>
>I would be very interested in what those of you out there have found
>to be the most helpful materials--written, dvd's, etc.--in becoming
>current again.
>
>Thanks,
>Elden
>xl/3300
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: ground school
I recently completed my pilot training. The single best thing I used was
Rod Machado's Private Pilot Handbook. The content was (IMHO) outstanding.
But the most important thing was the presentation. Machado's writing and
illustrations are easy (and fun) to read and very easy to understand.
One of my instructors required the Jeppesen Private Pilot Manual. I bought
it, but found it harder to read. I'd be happy to give you a good price on a
(very slightly) used copy. I'd never give away my Machado Handbook,
however. If I need to refresh on something, that's where I go.
Good luck, and welcome back to flying.
Terry
>As with at least some of you, I have not flown for a good many years. But
>LSA now offers an unexpected and very welcome opportunity to change that.
>I do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft itself, but
>it is obvious that the larger picture has changed almost beyond
>recognition, what with radios, controlled airspace, towers, etc.; in
>brief, the stuff of "ground school."
>
>I would be very interested in what those of you out there have found to be
>the most helpful materials--written, dvd's, etc.--in becoming current again.
>
>Thanks,
>Elden
>xl/3300
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: ground school
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Elden,
Welcome back to flying. I'm glad that the Sport Pilot Rating is bringing p
eople like you back to the skies.
I'm a relational person. For me, flying is about the people and relationsh
ips that flying can build. I know your question was about materials, but f
or me it is rarely about the books or DVDs. My suggestion is to find a fli
ght instructor who is also a good teacher. He/she will be instrumental in
pointing you to the right things and keeping you motivated. For me that pe
rson is Damien DelGaizo, President of Andover Flight Academy in Andover, NJ
. I completed a tail wheel check-out with him and did some bush flying. G
reat stuff to build confidence. You can find him at bushflying.com, if you
are near New Jersey.
Now to answer your question: AOPA's Air Saftey Foundation has some great se
minars that are free and come close to my area several times a year. They a
lso have several videos online. http://www.aopa.org/asf/seminars/index.cfmP
hil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:07:52 -0800From: eldenej(at)yahoo.comSubject: Zenith
-List: ground schoolTo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
As with at least some of you, I have not flown for a good many years. But L
SA now offers an unexpected and very welcome opportunity to change that. I
do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft itself, but it i
s obvious that the larger picture has changed almost beyond recognition, wh
at with radios, controlled airspace, towers, etc.; in brief, the stuff of "
ground school."
I would be very interested in what those of you out there have found to be
the most helpful materials--written, dvd's, etc.--in becoming current again
.
Thanks,
Elden
xl/3300
Be a better pen pal.
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init
iative now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
I checked with ZAC and there is no required splice for the spar cap angles
on the main spar.
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair
Getting close to finishing my wings
On Nov 25, 2007 2:02 PM, ashontz wrote:
>
> Not the rear spar splice, the butt joint for the spar cap angles on the
> main spar. They can be made in two sections, but there should be a doubler
> that spans the joint.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Ron Lendon wrote:
> > Is this the splice you are talking about? Found it on ch601.org
> >
> > http://ch601.org/resources/rear%20spar/601xl_rear_spar_splice.htm
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148440#148440
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "SockPuppet61" <sockpuppet61(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
What prop is it? Who made it?
What does "Pegastol" mean?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148456#148456
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Variable Slat wing see link below
http://web.archive.org/web/20040217134511/www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148474#148474
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Funny, I just talked to I believe it was Sebastian and he was like "uh, I'd imagine
a doubler with 5 or 6 rivets either side would be a good idea."
So what's the final word on this before I go pulling out the doubler I have in
there and making it longer. Looking at the FAA Advisory Circular under Repairs
(seeing as how the butt joint is essentially the same as a crack, for .032 you'd
need a 1.5 times the thickness doubler with 5 rivets either side. Good guess
on whoever at Zenith gave me the thumbs up. Still, I'd like to know if they
do or don't require it in this approved design change.
[quote="lwinger"]I checked with ZAC and there is no required splice for the spar
cap angles on the main spar.
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair
Getting close to finishing my wings
On Nov 25, 2007 2:02 PM, ashontz wrote:
>
> Not the rear spar splice, the butt joint for the spar cap angles on the main
spar. They can be made in two sections, but there should be a doubler that spans
the joint.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Ron Lendon wrote:
>
> > Is this the splice you are talking about? Found it on ch601.org (http://ch601.org/)
> >
> > http://ch601.org/resources/rear%20spar/601xl_rear_spar_splice.htm (http://ch601.org/resources/rear%20spar/601xl_rear_spar_splice.htm)
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz (http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148440#148440 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148440#148440)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148495#148495
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay recommended to seal
up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it partially assembled
I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the skin
joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see picture).
Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be expected
gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
Check Dave Clays tanks daves601xl.com, much better design than Zenith's. Nice continuous
edge around the rounded edge of the tank rather than squared off edges
as well as the splice style attachment of skin to itself on the top rear of
the tank. Nice design. Had I known for a fact that I'd be going with the Pro-Seal
I'd have used his design from the word go.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148500#148500
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture_005_234.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "RayStL" <ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2007
Thanks for the kind words guys. I had hoped to be able to report more at this time
but I have not been able to get another flight in yet. The weather just is
not cooperating. I was very, very tempted to day but it I there was a 15 knot
cross wind with gusts to 25. Not a good idea for a second flight.
I wont be able to get back to flying until Friday (weather permitting).
Ill try to answer your questions as best as I can for now and will get proper answers
as soon as I can.
The most significant Raven engine mods are to the intake and exhaust manifolds.
The oil pan is also changed to a saddle bag design so the engine can be flipped
to run on its side.
So far I like the Suzi engine. Stay tuned for updates.
I too am interested in the stol and cruise specs. One requirement I had when I
started this project was to get a 100 mph cruise speed. That is the main reason
I went to the Pegastol wing over the standard 701 wing. But it remains an untested
theory with the Suzi engine.
I must confess that I was a bit overwhelmed on the first flight so I did not get
a chance to monitor all the instruments the way they should have been. I am
using a Stratomaster Ultra frpo my instrumentation. It records flight time and
top speed. It tells me I reached 87 mph indicated. I know the engine was running
somewhere in the 4k (4000 to 4999) range but that is all I am sure. And I
still need to calibrate the asi too. Next flight. I am hopeful since the prop
pitch is certainly was not optimized for cruise.
I mounted the hub brush holder on the end of a threaded rod that ran back to a
bracket that supported the prop shaft. Jam nuts at both ends. I will get a picture.
I really like your cowling, Rick and the cooling pod.
I am using an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable, light. http://www.ivoprop.com/. The engine was smooth with no prop. It was smooth with the Ivo prop. I was happy and relieved.
Pegastol comes from combining the flying horse Pegasus and Stol. The company was
Dedalius (French version of Dedalus) Aviation From Sherbrooke, Quebec. I guess
they were big on Greek mythology.
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148519#148519
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Brett Hanley <bretttdc(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Proseal fuel tanks
Andy,
If you are going to rivet and proseal or flame seal your tanks there can not
be any "big" gaps. All the seams need to fit tight and be riveted down so all
surfaces are touching. Of course there will be small pin holes in the corners
and tiny gaps between the joints. The sealer will fill those. If you have large
gaps of say more than 1/32 of an inch thick you should consider another
row of rivets or some other measure to close them mechanically. Maybe you could
trim back the flange and use a piece of standard "L" to close the gap.
The poly sulfide sealers form a tenacious bond between the aluminum parts. The
sealer itself is quite tough but I would not trust it to fill large gaps.
I used this construction method on my 701 tanks and believe they are a lot stronger
than the welded version made by Zenith. I was able to incorporate two baffles
in each tank. These baffles make the tank much stronger structurally.
I did redesign the tanks making them the same size overall but all the flanges
on the ends are turned in reverse of the standard welded tanks. This allowed
me to incorporate a larger mating surface while slightly increasing the capacity
of the tank as well. If you use pop rivets they will all have to be sealed
on the exterior of the tank as well.
To give yourself a little confidence in the strength of the bond you should rivet
up some test seams when you are sealing the tanks. Rivet them as you would
any other seam of the tank. Give the entire assembly several weeks to cure,
especially in cold weather. Then drill out the rivets on the test pieces and
try to break the bond of the sealer alone. You will be surprised at how strong
the sealer is. I could not separate the bond on my samples. The aluminum tore
first.
You must be absolutely sure the the aluminum is clean. That means clean; not
kinda clean. I started the cleaning by scrubbing the parts in hot water using
dish washing soap then flushing with hot water. I repeated this process three
times. Then I wiped down the joints with MEK. Good idea to do this on a sunny
day if possible. I did this cleaning process after all the fabrication and
deburing had been done. Do not blow dry the parts with compressed air because
there may be a little oil mist in the spray. If needed a blow drier or heat
gun might work well. Once the parts are clean be sure you wear latex or nitril
gloves when handling the parts. The oil from your skin could possibly cause
problems in the bond. These sealers are messy and the gloves will simplify
the clean up process.
I mixed mine using a 10:1 ratio of sealer to hardener. A electronic scale works
great for measuring the parts. Put the scale in a clear plastic bag before
using it and you will not need to worry about getting it dirty. Scrap aluminum
that has been cleaned makes a great mixing pallet and spatula. Just throw
it away with the gloves between batches. Remember, you are looking for a great
seal and not a pretty finish. None of this will be seen when the plane is
done so if you have a smear or two out of place relax. Perfect means no leaks
and sound joints.
Be aware that there are people that swear that it is unsafe to use this sealer
on tanks using auto fuel. Other people will tell you that it is OK to use auto
fuel in these tanks. I have been soaking one of my sample bonds in premium
auto fuel inside a mason jar for about two years now. I have seen no softening
in the bond. Who is right? You tell me. My next plane will have tanks sealed
with poly sulfide sealer as well. They make good sense. Check out the Vans
website. They have the best deal on the material.
FYI I had a problematic leak in a polyethylene black water holding tank on my
motor home. I think that is why it was up for sale so cheap. I drained the
tank and scrubbed the area with Tide and a plastic brush. After rinsing well
I allowed the area to dry a few days. Then I mixed up the leftover sealer I
had stored in the fridge eighteen months earlier. After careful application with
a paint mixing stick I allowed the assembly to sit one week. To this day those
tanks are as good as new. Pretty incredible stuff.
Brett
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay
recommended to seal
up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it
partially assembled
I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the
skin
joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see
picture).
Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be
expected
gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Proseal fuel tanks
Another option you might want to consider is building a WET wing Vans builds
all there wing tanks this way and it really isn't that tough. If you build a
wet wing you would rivet the leading edge to the wing then mark the leading
edge about 1 inch from each rib between the tank area then cut the leading
edge add a solid rib to each side leaving about an inch lip and a solid back
with about a 2 inch lip upper and lower. You would add a couple of ribs inside
the tank for extra strength add your vent, filler cap and sender and seal.
You would then take a piece of .032 and rivet one side to the LE that you left
before cutting the tank out and add plate nuts to the other side to attach
the tank to. You would also add plate nuts to the spar angle that the LE would
have been riveted to then simply slide the tank in and screw her down.
I wouldn't take the time to fabricate a wing tank inside something that
could already be used as a wing tank not to mention if you were to ever get a
leak the trouble you would have getting it out. You can also find rivets that we
use to repair leaking tanks that do not have a hole in the bottom of them so
when you pull them you only need to seal the base of the rivet and not the
hole. I will find out where to get these and post it. If you decide to build a
wet wing you must use a dremal tool to cut it so you don't have a huge gap.
This has been ok'd by Zenith also.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/26/2007 7:46:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bretttdc(at)yahoo.com writes:
Andy,
If you are going to rivet and proseal or flame seal your tanks there can not
be any "big" gaps. All the seams need to fit tight and be riveted down so
all surfaces are touching. Of course there will be small pin holes in the
corners and tiny gaps between the joints. The sealer will fill those. If you
have large gaps of say more than 1/32 of an inch thick you should consider
another row of rivets or some other measure to close them mechanically. Maybe
you could trim back the flange and use a piece of standard "L" to close the
gap.
The poly sulfide sealers form a tenacious bond between the aluminum parts.
The sealer itself is quite tough but I would not trust it to fill large gaps.
I used this construction method on my 701 tanks and believe they are a lot
stronger than the welded version made by Zenith. I was able to incorporate
two baffles in each tank. These baffles make the tank much stronger
structurally. I did redesign the tanks making them the same size overall but all
the
flanges on the ends are turned in reverse of the standard welded tanks. This
allowed me to incorporate a larger mating surface while slightly increasing
the capacity of the tank as well. If you use pop rivets they will all have to
be sealed on the exterior of the tank as well.
To give yourself a little confidence in the strength of the bond you should
rivet up some test seams when you are sealing the tanks. Rivet them as you
would any other seam of the tank. Give the entire assembly several weeks to
cure, especially in cold weather. Then drill out the rivets on the test pieces
and try to break the bond of the sealer alone. You will be surprised at how
strong the sealer is. I could not separate the bond on my samples. The
aluminum tore first.
You must be absolutely sure the the aluminum is clean. That means clean;
not kinda clean. I started the cleaning by scrubbing the parts in hot water
using dish washing soap then flushing with hot water. I repeated this process
three times. Then I wiped down the joints with MEK. Good idea to do this on a
sunny day if possible. I did this cleaning process after all the
fabrication and deburing had been done. Do not blow dry the parts with compressed
air
because there may be a little oil mist in the spray. If needed a blow drier
or heat gun might work well. Once the parts are clean be sure you wear
latex or nitril gloves when handling the parts. The oil from your skin could
possibly cause problems in the bond. These sealers are messy and the gloves
will simplify the clean up process.
I mixed mine using a 10:1 ratio of sealer to hardener. A electronic scale
works great for measuring the parts. Put the scale in a clear plastic bag
before using it and you will not need to worry about getting it dirty. Scrap
aluminum that has been cleaned makes a great mixing pallet and spatula. Just
throw it away with the gloves between batches. Remember, you are looking for
a great seal and not a pretty finish. None of this will be seen when the
plane is done so if you have a smear or two out of place relax. Perfect means
no leaks and sound joints.
Be aware that there are people that swear that it is unsafe to use this
sealer on tanks using auto fuel. Other people will tell you that it is OK to
use
auto fuel in these tanks. I have been soaking one of my sample bonds in
premium auto fuel inside a mason jar for about two years now. I have seen no
softening in the bond. Who is right? You tell me. My next plane will have tanks
sealed with poly sulfide sealer as well. They make good sense. Check out
the Vans website. They have the best deal on the material.
FYI I had a problematic leak in a polyethylene black water holding tank on
my motor home. I think that is why it was up for sale so cheap. I drained
the tank and scrubbed the area with Tide and a plastic brush. After rinsing
well I allowed the area to dry a few days. Then I mixed up the leftover
sealer I had stored in the fridge eighteen months earlier. After careful
application with a paint mixing stick I allowed the assembly to sit one week.
To this
day those tanks are as good as new. Pretty incredible stuff.
Brett
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <_ashontz(at)nbme.org_
(http://us.f508.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=ashontz@nbme.org&YY=13818&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0)
>
I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay
recommended to seal
up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it
partially assembled
I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the
skin
joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see
picture).
Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be
expected
gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: David Barth <davids601xl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spar cap angles on 601xl
Hi Guys.
When we originally proposed this butt joint to Chris
Heintz the first question was whether or not the spar
cap angle was used in the strength calculations of the
spar or if its purpose was simply to attach the skins
to the spar. All the spar cap angle does is transfer
the load from the skin to the spar. We could have used
a whole bunch of little angles (one for each rivet)
but it is simpler to use less (one or two) Therefore
no doubler is required.
We recognize that it does carry some of the load of
the spar so it is important to have the butt joint
located away from the termination of the front spar
caps (top and bottom) to avoid stress concentrations
at that location. Mark Townsend mentioned 16 inches I
believe. I hope this clarifies things somewhat.
David
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe.
From: "billmileski" <william.mileski(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
I have a 701 with a 912S, and a battery behind the access panel in the bottom of
the rear fuse. The battery is grounded to the airframe nearby, with a ring
lug and AN3, with primer cleaned off with thinner first. Even with the old 912
starter (not new high torque one) the engine spins up quickly at start, year-round,
and I would think this is preferable to the weight and complexity of the
additional ground cable.
The strobe power supplies are at the wing tips, and their +12V power wires are
unshielded. The output to the strobes, however, is shielded, which seems to make
sense, as this is the high voltage transient signal. That said, I do hear
a very slight whine of the power supplies charging, in the headsets.
Bill Mileski
Ledyard, CT
701 912S 114hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148616#148616
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ground school
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Eldon, I've been a CFII for 22 of my 32 years of flying, and retired in 2005 after
34 years of teaching high school science. I only mention this to qualify
my remarks.
You are right to want a refresher and I commend you for it. When I learned to
fly the VOR was considered high tech and airspace was much different. In your
review I would put the greatest emphasis on learning about the changes that have
taken place that are most likely to bite the unaware. If you don't already,
subscribe to some aviation magazines so that you can keep up on current trends
and events.
Everyone has a learning style and what works for one will not work for all. Some
can just read a book, others need to see images and hear things explained while
others only learn when they do it themselves. Other posters have recommended
a number of things that have worked for them and you can pick from them or
any number of other products that are on the market.
The suggestion of getting together with an instructor or people who are flying
actively is a good one.... perhaps there is a flying club or EAA chapter near
you.
Finally, your comment "I do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft
itself" has me a little concerned. The accident reports are full of people
whose lack of recent flight experience is listed as a major factor in an aircraft
accident.... especially when it comes to flight testing a homebuilt. I'm
current and have thousands of hours but I am going to be very cautious and
careful when it comes to test flying my XL. My recommendation to you would be
to combine your book work with some flight training so that you are truly prepared
to take to the skies again.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148630#148630
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Flanging Dies
Ron,
Nice work, I plan to follow your foot steps thanks for the detailed instructions
and I'm sure I
will be contacting in the future when I begin building.
Thanks again,
Art
--- "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" wrote:
> Art..
> Check these out... Ron
>
> :-{
> :-{
> :-{ Ron,
> :-{ I'm glad you looked at those closer than I did, your absolutely
> :-{ correct they are flanging blanks.
> :-{
> :-{
> :-{ Art
> :-{
> :-{ --- Ron Lalonde wrote:
> :-{
> :-{:-{ Flanging blanks? What about a completed set..I think these
> :-{:-{ need to be machined Ron
> :-{:-{
> :-{:-{
> :-{:-{:-{ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:47:23 -0800> From:
> :-{:-{:-{ ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Zenith-List:
> :-{:-{:-{
> :-{:-{ Flanging Dies> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com> > --> Zenith-
> :-{:-{ List message posted by: Art Olechowski
> :-{:-{ > > Hi all just thought I would
> :-{:-{ shoot out the link of the source of the machined flanging
> :-{:-{ dies.> Anyone have a set of these? If so, are you happy with
> :-{:-{ results==================> > >
> :-{:-{ _________________________________________________________________ Have
> :-{:-{ fun while connecting on Messenger! Click here to learn more.
> :-{:-{ http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
> :-{
> :-{
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Filler Neck
From: "swater6" <waters.scott(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
You might want to ask Zenith where they are getting theirs from. I have the old
style flange on my tanks but they have switched over to a threaded flange just
as you have described that makes a nice flush fit.
They've updated the drawings but not the photo guide.
They're using it on the AMD XL too.
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148660#148660
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
You do not need to safety wire the rod, for one it is desinged to be adjustable
and if you safety wire it, it won't be adjustabl;e. secondly it cannot back
out unless both end back out, and that is why they have stop nuts. just adjust
the rod to lenght needed and use the 1/2 inch wrench and tighten the stop nut.
thats it. Word of caution, DO NOT USE any Nut lock liquid, I have paid the
price on that. Just tighten the nuts.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Nov 23, 2007 8:59 PM
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.
>
>
>Jam nuts are standard. Still have to safety wire.
>Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>
>Dave,
> I just installed the aileron control rod on my right HD wing. The
>control rod is threaded the entire length. The rod end bearings appear to
>be MS21153. The bearing is a universal joint of sorts with a witness hole.
>A jam nut came with the rod for each bearing end. I can't imagine how they
>would be safetied. Can you explain?
> Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Subject: New Tech
We have a new Tech that we think will serve the corvair community very well.
The old tech we have used only showed the rpm and this brand new tech now
shows the voltage, Hobbs time, oil pressure and oil temp. You can also set the
range and if the range is exceeded it will flash on the LCD screen and sound
an audible alarm alerting you of the problem. The price for this unit is
$375.00 plus shipping and weighs about a pound and comes with the senders and
flywheel pickup. This is the introductory price and it will be going up so if
you
need any information just email me off list and I'll be glad to answer any
questions.
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer(at)cableone.net>
Subject: CH701 Strut Covers
Date: Nov 26, 2007
I am now in the process of building a set for mine but seems like I saw
a set maybe on the Savannah website.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer(at)cableone.net>
Subject: 701 backup electric pump
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Guys
I have been flying my 701/912s for a while now and after seeing the
climb angles possible am considering a backup electric pump to the
engine driven one. If it should fail in a max angle climb gravity feed
doesn't appear likely considering the fact that the engine driven pump
is mounted on the front of the engine-likely above the tank level in
this steep climb angle.
Several questions...seems like I remember a Rotax service bulletin a
while back concerning engines with electric pumps...anybody know what
that was all about? Also is the engine driven pump pervious when failed?
It would seem likely.What pressure output pump is correct? I am thinking
the standard 5 or so psi pump...
Any other info appreciated
Thanks Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Filler Neck
From: "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Aircraft Spruce has the ones like ZAC uses in there tanks, about half way down
the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/fuel_caps.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/lwsprlfc.php
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148698#148698
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Header Tank Wanted
From: "Wingrider" <rwhitt3(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
I've got one I don't plan to use. I don't know what it's worth, do you have the
factory Zenith seat belt/shoulder harness to trade?
--------
Rich Whittington
Tullahoma, TN
Zenith 601HDS Under Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148699#148699
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Andy,
My tanks are welded and the long seam is at the other end from where your seam
is. Looking at 6-K-1, dated 08/05, the long seam is up along the top on the surface
where the filler neck goes and it rests on cork against the wing spar.
It looks like you made the long seam along the upper leading edge of the wing.
The welding was tricky but once I got the 3.5 lenses it got much easier. The arc
is so small (27 amps) I needed to magnify it to be able to see what was going
on.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148705#148705
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "SockPuppet61" <sockpuppet61(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
It will be interesting to see if the performance you get is similar to Dedaleus'
advertised figures. Such an option would be pretty appealing if you did want
to cruise slightly faster.
I note their Vne is 15 faster than the CH701. Would it be the case that, while
their wing might have a Vne listed at 125 (vs 701 at 110), one still would have
to observe the 701 Vne because of the control surfaces at the back and the control
cable design?
I don't know how Vne is estimated / deduced / experimentally determined.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148706#148706
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Update on Zenith builders site
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Zenith updated the Builder site today for the 601XL. It is a new version of 6-B-19
labeled "Flap Controls (Electric Flap Actuator)" and it covers installation
of the new linear style actuator.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces complete
Wings nearly ready to close
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148709#148709
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Filler Neck
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
I bought mine directly from Zenith about a year ago
SPRL-2-L-G/S FUEL CAP ASSMBLY $64.75 each.
M142 THREADED BUSHING 2-1/4" $11.60 each.
After welding is was necessary to run a tap back through the welded ring. They
also supplied that N/C other than the shipping back to them. It was actually
a kit that included all the tools to fix the situation and directions also.
They really are good people to deal with.
Final result below.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148711#148711
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fueltanks_027_496.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Subject: Re: New Tech
Do you mean "Tach"....?
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Another Chat Room
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Cant seem to get into the chat room so far this evening.
I will be lurking around this chat room:
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: chat 8pm edit http://chat.iahu.ca
chat 8pm edit http://chat.iahu.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Elden Jacobson <eldenej(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ground school
Thank you, Tim, for your thoughtful response (indeed, I much appreciate all of
the comments made in response to my questions). When you quote back to me my comment
about lack of concern regarding operating the aircraft itself, I realize
it sounds a bit cavalier. I meant only to suggest that I was surprised and delighted,
during my hour aloft with Michael Heintz, to discover how natural it
all still felt. It is my intention to become flight-proficient again (Dragonfly
Aviation in Santa Rosa has an xl used for instructional purposes) before going
anywhere near the xl I am building. I stopped flying in my mid-twenties, at
the insistence of my then-wife, after my parents flew their 170 into a mountain;
now, fifty years later, "very cautious" will be my watch-word, too.
Again, my thanks,
Elden
Tim Juhl wrote:
Eldon, I've been a CFII for 22 of my 32 years of flying, and retired in 2005 after
34 years of teaching high school science. I only mention this to qualify my
remarks.
You are right to want a refresher and I commend you for it. When I learned to fly
the VOR was considered high tech and airspace was much different. In your review
I would put the greatest emphasis on learning about the changes that have
taken place that are most likely to bite the unaware. If you don't already,
subscribe to some aviation magazines so that you can keep up on current trends
and events.
Everyone has a learning style and what works for one will not work for all. Some
can just read a book, others need to see images and hear things explained while
others only learn when they do it themselves. Other posters have recommended
a number of things that have worked for them and you can pick from them or
any number of other products that are on the market.
The suggestion of getting together with an instructor or people who are flying
actively is a good one.... perhaps there is a flying club or EAA chapter near
you.
Finally, your comment "I do not expect difficulty with the piloting of the aircraft
itself" has me a little concerned. The accident reports are full of people
whose lack of recent flight experience is listed as a major factor in an aircraft
accident.... especially when it comes to flight testing a homebuilt. I'm
current and have thousands of hours but I am going to be very cautious and careful
when it comes to test flying my XL. My recommendation to you would be to
combine your book work with some flight training so that you are truly prepared
to take to the skies again.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148630#148630
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Header Tank Wanted
From: "jhines" <johnrhines(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2007
Doug,
What information did Craig share with you? I was thinking of doing the same thing
so I am interested in hearing what changed your mind. I'm a Corvair guy so
the gravity feed system would sure be simpler and cheaper. I admit that opinion
is rather uninformed.
John
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148740#148740
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle?
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected
by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that
assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to
house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first
rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
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USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
I believe that the Vne is primarily a function of the wing attachment points. And
that due to the higher drag of the stock wing the 701 has a Vne of 110. If
you put a lower drag wing on the Vne would defiantly increase. But the whole 15mph
to 125. I'd doubt it, as other things on the airframe may have a Vne of 115,
like the horizontal or vertical controls( just a for instance)? These also
are important to a safe flight.
I could be all wet but I did ask this question of higher Vne to the soon to be
new MFG of the wing. He pretty much laughed at my question and politely side
stepped it after saying that he had never heard of a higher Vne for the 701 with
this wing attached
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148820#148820
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Subject: Re: New "Tachometer"
Yes that is what I meant but after 12 hours of building sometimes the brain
and hands do some strange things....... Please forgive me. I just received the
first one yesterday and got excited because it looked sooo good in the
airplane. It is one nice "Tachometer"!
In a message dated 11/26/2007 11:14:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com writes:
Do you mean "Tach"....?
____________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the _hottest products_
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
I'm working with older plans I guess. Any problem with using the seem where I have
it. Is it acceptable even if I use Pro-Seal or the Flame Master stuff the
RV guys use to seal the tanks. I have plenty of material to make another couple
of tanks, I'd just rather keep moving forward. Also, my welding skills aren't
that great nor do I have access to a TIG welder for aluminum, I'd have to pay
someone. What do you guys recommend? At the moment, I'm leaning towards rivets
and sealing compound but I can easily switch direction on that if pursueded.
Currently I'm in "stop and think about it" mode on this one and am open to ideas
to making this tank accessible in the future. I'm going with the 12 gallon tanks.
If I need to get to this tank in the wing I'd like it to be as easy as possible.
What's the current thinking on two shorter leading edge skins? Is there
any good way to make the tank skin accessible with screws rather than rivets?
Drilling rivets out isn't great, but even more of a problem is the rivets through
the spar cap angle. You drill them out and then you potentially have the
back end of the rivet falling into the center section which you really can't
get to.
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Andy,
>
> My tanks are welded and the long seam is at the other end from where your seam
is. Looking at 6-K-1, dated 08/05, the long seam is up along the top on the
surface where the filler neck goes and it rests on cork against the wing spar.
It looks like you made the long seam along the upper leading edge of the wing.
>
> The welding was tricky but once I got the 3.5 lenses it got much easier. The
arc is so small (27 amps) I needed to magnify it to be able to see what was going
on.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148825#148825
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 backup electric pump
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Joe. the rotax manual gives max allowable pressure. From memory I think 5 psi is
around the top end. Someone else will know it. Based on info I got from this
list when I was at this point, I have a Facet PP. from ASSCO. The engine driven
PP will pass fuel through if failed. Also, the PP can be inserted in line........Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148827#148827
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: Re: Another Chat Room
ya my server was on life support last night ... finally died this morn so if
ya dont mind i pointed http://chat.iahu.ca/ at your site temporarily (beats
having to change links)
On 11/26/07, George Race wrote:
>
> Cant seem to get into the chat room so far this evening.
>
> I will be lurking around this chat room:
> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
>
> George
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched
the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about
the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing
ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but
I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That
tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with
no
problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and
the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a
leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the case
is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user
friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say
a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some GA
planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and
won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the
comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the
resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the
tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank
has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no
problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the
subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak
in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee IS the fuel tank. How's that
for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" wrote:
>
>Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the
case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
>
>Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user
friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say
a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some
GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
>
>The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
>
>[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
> I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the
comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the
resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank
has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no
problems at all.
> Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the
subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak
in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
> Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
> Carroll
>
>
>Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
>
>> [b]
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Eatman <pilotdna(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Header Tank Wanted
Date: Nov 27, 2007
John,
Here's a summary of the input of several builders.
Advantages of big header tank: simpler, lighter, cheaper
Disadvantages of big header tank:
The welded tanks are prone to pinhole leaks (two builders offered me their new
tanks that had leaks), which would end up directly in the cabin.
Spills during fueling seep in and make the cabin smell of fuel.
Cable routing through the firewall becomes trickier.
You could not mount the Corvair ignition components on the inside of the firewall.
The tank mounting shown in the HD/HDS is not very applicable to the XL due to different
panel geometry.
Several panels of the factory header are only 0.025, which is of questionable crashworthiness.
Depth behind the panel is greatly reduced, a standard Icom A200 will no longer
fit.
I observed the 16 gal header to also be much deeper than expected, right down to
the rudder pedals, so if gravity flow at high alpha turned out to be marginal
in ground tests you'd be right back to the $1000 MA3 or Ellison carb and fuel
pumps (which work very well, but were the costs I was trying to avoid in the
first place).
None of the disadvantages are total show stoppers, it could work very well. If
there were a tough racecar style plastic fuel cell on the market that mounted
shallower (like in the Sonex) I'd go with the header, but mostly the leak/crack
potential of the Zenith 16 gal tank scares me. I hope this comparison was
helpful for your decision.
-Doug E
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Yeah, I was just looking online at someone's project site about how they spent
their summer vacation resealing a wet-wing tank on a Grumman.
I guess the best deal is, make a seperate tank, install it, make the leading edge
skins in sections (maybe two sections) and add another access panel under behind
the main spar so that if the leading edge skin covering the tank has to
come off at least I can vacuum the chips and drilled out pop rivet backs out from
behind the main spar.
[quote="Jaybannist(at)cs.com"]Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee
IS the fuel tank. How's that for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the
case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
>
> Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as
user friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on
say a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some
GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
>
> The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
>
>
> Trainnut01(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Andy
> > I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched
the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about
the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but
I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That
tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with
no problems at all.
> > Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and
the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a
leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
> > Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
> > Carroll
> >
> >
> >
> > Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> >
> > > [b]
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148862#148862
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Header Tank Wanted
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Don't forget to add to the cons list: 16 gals of fuel sitting in the cabin with
you.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148873#148873
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flap and aileron hinges
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
The plans call for a 7' hinge for the flap. Aircraft spruce only carries them up
to 6' long. Are you guys just butting a one foot length up to a 6 foot length?
Also, should I get the stainless hinge AND stainless pin, or just the aluminum
hinge and order a seperate stainless pin?
Thanks
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148875#148875
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Galvanic chart
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
I just posted a subquestion in my last post about corrosion and fittings. For anyone
interested here's the galvanic chart. Obviously for really intense corrosion
to occur you need and electrolyte like salt water, but even so, humidity
can be a problem.
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm
Generally on aluminum boats they mount a sacrificial anode of zinc.
Anyway, as far as fittings for an aluminum fuel tank, it looks like a zinc plated
fitting would be better than a brass fitting. At least if one corrodes over
time it'll be the zinc fitting which you can replace.
I'm wondering if Aircraft Spruces insanely expensive fittings are just zinc fittings.
Trying to think if I've seen regualr hose barbs and stuff at the hardware
store that were zinc. They carry lots of brass for sure. I'f anything, a zinc
fitting should be even cheaper.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148882#148882
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Proseal fuel tanks
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
I'm still going to give you a call when I get a chance, but do you have some pix
of what a tank looks like going together? I'm kind of confused as to how you
finally close the thing up and where that cover goes and how big it is. Sounds
interesting though.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Another option you might want to consider is building
a WET wing Vans builds all there wing tanks this way and it really isn't
that tough. If you build a wet wing you would rivet the leading edge to the
wing then mark the leading edge about 1 inch from each rib between the tank
area then cut the leading edge add a solid rib to each side leaving about an
inch lip and a solid back with about a 2 inch lip upper and lower. You would
add a couple of ribs inside the tank for extra strength add your vent, filler
cap and sender and seal. You would then take a piece of .032 and rivet one side
to the LE that you left before cutting the tank out and add plate nuts to
the other side to attach the tank to. You would also add plate nuts to the spar
angle that the LE would have been riveted to then simply slide the tank in
and screw her down.
I wouldn't take the time to fabricate a wing tank inside something that could
already be used as a wing tank not to mention if you were to ever get a leak
the trouble you would have getting it out. You can also find rivets that we
use to repair leaking tanks that do not have a hole in the bottom of them so
when you pull them you only need to seal the base of the rivet and not the hole.
I will find out where to get these and post it. If you decide to build a
wet wing you must use a dremal tool to cut it so you don't have a huge gap. This
has been ok'd by Zenith also.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/26/2007 7:46:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bretttdc(at)yahoo.com
writes:
> Andy,
>
> If you are going to rivet and proseal or flame seal your tanks there can
not be any "big" gaps. All the seams need to fit tight and be riveted down
so all surfaces are touching. Of course there will be small pin holes in
the corners and tiny gaps between the joints. The sealer will fill those.
If you have large gaps of say more than 1/32 of an inch thick you should
consider another row of rivets or some other measure to close them mechanically.
Maybe you could trim back the flange and use a piece of standard "L"
to close the gap.
>
> The poly sulfide sealers form a tenacious bond between the aluminum parts.
The sealer itself is quite tough but I would not trust it to fill large
gaps. I used this construction method on my 701 tanks and believe they are
a lot stronger than the welded version made by Zenith.? I was able to incorporate
two baffles in each tank. These baffles make the tank much stronger
structurally. I did redesign the tanks making them the same size overall
but all the flanges on the ends are turned in reverse of the standard welded
tanks. This allowed me to incorporate a larger mating surface while slightly
increasing the capacity of the tank as well. If you use pop rivets
they will all have to be sealed on the exterior of the tank as well.
>
> To give yourself a little confidence in the strength of the bond you should
rivet up some test seams when you are sealing the tanks. Rivet them as
you would any other seam of the tank. Give the entire assembly several weeks
to cure, especially in cold weather. Then drill out the rivets on the test
pieces and try to break the bond of the sealer alone. You will be surprised
at how strong the sealer is. I could not separate the bond on my samples.
The aluminum tore first.
>
> You must be absolutely sure the the aluminum is clean. That means clean;
not kinda clean. I started the cleaning by scrubbing the parts in hot water
using dish washing soap then flushing with hot water. I repeated this
process three times. Then I wiped down the joints with MEK. Good idea to do
this on a sunny day if possible. I did this cleaning process after all
the fabrication and deburing had been done. Do not blow dry the parts with
compressed air because there may be a little oil mist in the spray. If needed
a blow drier or heat gun might work well. Once the parts are clean be
sure you wear latex or nitril gloves when handling the parts. The oil from
your skin could possibly cause problems in the bond. These sealers are messy
and the gloves will simplify the clean up process.
>
> I mixed mine using a 10:1 ratio of sealer to hardener. A electronic scale
works great for measuring the parts. Put the scale in a clear plastic
bag before using it and you will not need to worry about getting it dirty.
Scrap aluminum that has been cleaned makes a great mixing pallet and spatula.
Just throw it away with the gloves between batches.? Remember, you are
looking for a great seal and not a pretty finish. None of this will be seen
when the plane is done so if you have a smear or two out of place relax.
Perfect means no leaks and sound joints.
>
> Be aware that there are people that swear that it is unsafe to use this
sealer on tanks using auto fuel. Other people will tell you that it is OK
to use auto fuel in these tanks. I have been soaking one of my sample bonds
in premium auto fuel inside a mason jar for about two years now. I have seen
no softening in the bond. Who is right? You tell me. My next plane will
have tanks sealed with poly sulfide sealer as well. They make good sense.
Check out the Vans website. They have the best deal on the material.
>
> FYI I had a problematic leak in a polyethylene black water holding tank
on my motor home. I think that is why it was up for sale so cheap. I drained
the tank and scrubbed the area with Tide and a plastic brush. After
rinsing well I allowed the area to dry a few days.? Then I mixed up the leftover
sealer I had stored in the fridge eighteen months earlier. After careful
application with a paint mixing stick?I allowed the assembly to sit one
week. To this day those tanks are as good as new. Pretty incredible stuff.
>
> Brett
>
>
> Subject: Fuel tank sealing
> From: "ashontz"
>
> I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay
> recommended to seal
> up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
>
> Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it
> partially assembled
> I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the
> skin
> joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see
> picture).
> Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be
> expected
> gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148913#148913
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
I want a canopy like this too. I think Zenith should just post some plans as to
how to build an XL with a CH2000 style canopy. Looks nicer too.
[quote="agustafson(at)chartermi.n"]I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved
changing the turtle deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy
a $1000 canopy but made my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan
for less than $100.
Aaron Gustafson
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlandingwave.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlandingwave.jpg)
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148917#148917
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: of wrath and rants...
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
hahaha $600????
Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out, at
least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one, ok, maybe
$70 if you include the sealer.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for parts
so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for $600.00
and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off. And their should
also be a section for known con artists and people that take forever to
send parts that builders have ordered.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups
I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the fuel
pickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type fuel
senders that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or do I need
to
get the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50 plus each and I wou
ld
need two. Any help is appreciated.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
92% done and 80% To Go
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: John Davis <johnd@data-tech.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups
Hi Dave,
The Dynon claims to support the resitive senders. I've installed a D-180
as well and amy just wrapping up my wings but according to their docs
the zenith supplied senders should work.
John Davis
Burnsville, NC
601-XL Jab 3300
Dave Nixon wrote:
> I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the
> fuel pickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type
> fuel senders that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or
> do I need to get the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50
> plus each and I would need two. Any help is appreciated.
> Dave Nixon
> CH601XL Jabiru 3300
> 92% done and 80% To Go
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Dave--
The resistive senders work fine with the Dynon 180. I've been flying wit
h them for 172 hours.
George May
601XL 912s 172 hours
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:24:39 -0500From: adnasap(at)bellsouth.netTo: zenith-
list(at)matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups
I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the fuel p
ickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type fuel sender
s that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or do I need to get
the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50 plus each and I would nee
d two. Any help is appreciated.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
92% done and 80% To Go
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE
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07
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon" <cscsail(at)gmavt.net>
Subject: Re: Galvanic chart
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Andy,
I don't think you will have much galvanic corrosion unless you are on
floats and even then I don't believe it would be a big problem. But -- Zinc
anodes work well in salt water, but poorly in fresh water. In fresh water
you will want to use magnesium as your anode.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Galvanic chart
>
> I just posted a subquestion in my last post about corrosion and fittings.
> For anyone interested here's the galvanic chart. Obviously for really
> intense corrosion to occur you need and electrolyte like salt water, but
> even so, humidity can be a problem.
>
> http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm
>
> Generally on aluminum boats they mount a sacrificial anode of zinc.
>
> Anyway, as far as fittings for an aluminum fuel tank, it looks like a zinc
> plated fitting would be better than a brass fitting. At least if one
> corrodes over time it'll be the zinc fitting which you can replace.
>
> I'm wondering if Aircraft Spruces insanely expensive fittings are just
> zinc fittings. Trying to think if I've seen regualr hose barbs and stuff
> at the hardware store that were zinc. They carry lots of brass for sure.
> I'f anything, a zinc fitting should be even cheaper.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148882#148882
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc
From: "RayStL" <ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Vne is based on either aircraft structural limitations or instability limitations
whichever comes first. The original Pegastol manufacturer, Dedalius, based
the Vne calculation on the assumption that the wing was the limiting factor. I
have attached their stress calculations. I have some reservations with some of
their statements and talked to them about them. It is possible of the tail to
be the limiting factor for Vne bit I dont think that is the usual case. The
load on the elevator/stabilizer will depend somewhat on where the C of G is. Near
the aft end of the C of G limit will have the tail under lower stresses than
of the C of G is further forward.
Their claim is essentially that it is designed to handle the more severe utility
requirements rather than the normal requirements met by the 701 or Cessna 172
for example. That claim was partly based on the adoption of recommended design
changes that in some cases never happened. For instance, the bolt diameter
of the front wing attachment root wing was supposed have been increased over the
original, as used by Zenith. That did not happen, nor could it have without
increasing the size if the wing pickup flanges in the Zenith cabin frame.
I was a bit disappointed when I discovered these discrepancies after going through
their analyses. The bottom line for me is that I do not consider the wing
system to be designed to the utility category requirements. The weakest links
in their design still satisfy the normal category even at 125 mph (assuming no
stability problems).
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148935#148935
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stress_analysis_125.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Roll over protection
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
The more I think about it the more I think that if I could find someone good at
laying up fiberglass it might be a neat idea just to make a aerodynamic top front
fuselage that would replace the canopy. It could have gull-wing doors and
even some embedded rollover protection.
It's not like the designed canopy is structural. There is a 601 sportster pictured
at the zenith site that has nothing but a windscreen.
The fiberglass could even be made removable so you could have a sportster.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148936#148936
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Flanagan" <flanagan(at)nycap.rr.com>
Subject: plans fo CH701 amphib floats
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Does anyone have an unused set of float plans for sale ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Subject: Re: of wrath and rants...
I personally don't see the humor in it. Zenith charges I think 1250.00 for
the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me you are worried about the tanks you are making
leaking. Why don't you try and price having them welded and roll formed for
strength and see how much they cost then. I was taught not to throw stones
in a glass house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
hahaha $600????
Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out,
at least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one,
ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for
parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for
$600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off. And
their should also be a section for known con artists and people that take
forever to send parts that builders have ordered.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: of wrath and rants...
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Uh, actually, I'm backing you up on this one, sounds like you're peeved that he's
not doing his job, AND he's charging you that much. $600 just sounds like a
lot of money to me for two tanks. Sure, having them welded is expensive, that's
why I'd like to go with the sealer. Even so, how much work is really going
into these tanks. I've just been farting around with them and it really didn't
take me that long to make the general configuration per Zenith's plans. If he's
making these tanks as a business the hard part would be welding, that's about
it. I'd seem to me he'd be able to make one cheaper than that all tooled up
for the deal. Personally, I'm just trying to find the best way to seal up what
I've made, and if I need to remake the skin it'll take me all of 20 minutes,
I'm just being anal about the edges where it seals to make sure I'm doing it
right.
I'm on your side though, if he's making parts he should be able to complete them
in a timely fashion, and seeing how there's about $50 worth of parts per tank,
I really don't see the need for him to need the $600 upfront. I'd be peeved
too.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]I personally don't see the humor in it. Zenith charges
I think 1250.00 for the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me you are worried about
the tanks you are making leaking. Why don't you try and price having them
welded and roll formed for strength and see how much they cost then. I was
taught not to throw stones in a glass house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org
writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> hahaha $600????
>
> Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out,
at least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one,
ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
>
>
> Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for
parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for
$600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off.
And their should also be a section for known con artists and people that take
forever to send parts that builders have ordered.
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
>
>
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148947#148947
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks.
Date: Nov 27, 2007
Speaking of fuel senders in your tanks,,,,
I m about to cut into my 601 XL tanks to install the sending units.
My plans show the hole in the end of the tank and my CD shows the hole