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March 27, 2013 - February 21, 2014

Have fun, Paul Camas, WA On 3/26/2013 4:48 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > All very useful information, thanks! > > I should have asked this question at the start but here goes. I haven't crawled into my fuselage yet (think I'll wait until it is on the gear) but was curious about the optimum height of the seat back. I'm 6'1" tall, so can anyone suggest how much, if any, I should extend the seat back above the top support? With the laid-back orientation of the Zodiac seat I would think that some head support would be in order. > > Thanks! > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397144#397144 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat backs
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2013
I built a mock-up of the seat from wood so I could test the seat design. I used the mock-up to build up the seat foam pieces and glue them together before I took them in to the upholsterer. It was easier than trying to do it in the cockpit itself. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. On Mar 26, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > I should have asked this question at the start but here goes. I haven't crawled into my fuselage yet (think I'll wait until it is on the gear) but was curious about the optimum height of the seat back. I'm 6'1" tall, so can anyone suggest how much, if any, I should extend the seat back above the top support? With the laid-back orientation of the Zodiac seat I would think that some head support would be in order. > > Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "paul baker" <pbaker4(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Rib Forming Blocks
Date: Mar 27, 2013
not the same subject..but I had a friend that started building a 601xl a few years back. It was a 51% kit with all options.Unfortunitly, he became ill after starting the =9CB=9D mods. An a&p ai has finished the plane and now it it ready to be registered,but the owner has died. The family is now offering the finished plane for some one to buy and get the final inspection and certification. The plane is brand new with a brand new jabiru 120hp,dynon Efis-100,grandrapids eis,garmin tr sl 40,garmin gtx 327 transponder. Everything is 0 time , the engine has been started and checked out. the family is highly motivated to move the airplane and is willing to give someone a great deal. Well over $60.000 in material alone . They are asking $39.ooo for openers and are willing to deal. The plane is located at Sugar Valley apt near Mocksville nc. Call me paul baker at 704-664-2273. I have owned two 601s with over 400 pleasant hours in mine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Hi Guys, I've had the canopy undone in flight and the canopy could not open far enough to dump someone unless the airspeed was in full stall. If he pitched the nose up sharply and then fell through the stall, it is possible to get ejected that way, but going anything faster than 60 and the canopy is going to stay within 10 inches of closed even if it's unlatched. Very unfortunate though. Larry McFarland 601HDS sold after 7 years flying Now in a Piper Cherokee ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Larry, I know what Zenith says about it, but I can tell you for certain that an XL canopy can rise to fully open if unlatched at cruise speed, and you will n ot be able to get it back down and latched. I have lived through that and you can also ask the widow of the owner of that airplane about it. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 10:03 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith thrown out of plane Hi Guys, I=99ve had the canopy undone in flight and the canopy could not open far enough to dump someone unless the airspeed was in full stall. If he pitched the nose up sharply a nd then fell through the stall, it is possible to get ejected that way, but going anything faster than 60 and the canopy is going to stay within 10 inches of closed even if it=99s unlatched. Very unfortunate though. Larry McFarland 601HDS sold after 7 years flying Now in a Piper Cherokee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Hi Jay, I believe you=99re saying there was no relative wind against the canopy, but this could only occur if the plane was nearing the end of a climb or pitch up stall condition. No, the canopy will not close in flight, nor will it open fully or much more than the drag allows at normal airspeed. Relative drag keeps the unlatched canopy at a less than quarter-open if speed=99s are above 60 because it generates lift and still has drag. I couldn=99t guess about below that. The effect of pitching one out of an airplane suggests a full pitch over at nearly zero airspeed, which I=99ve done, and the negative forces can really throw you against the belts if you happen to be wearing them. Both of these conditions would seem to be necessary if a person were to be thrown from the plane. I=99d think a simple hard over arc would be hard to duplicate the result. I wasn=99t there, so it=99s very possible there=99s a few more ways this could=99ve happened. Do Fly safe, Larry McFarland From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Bannister Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Zenith thrown out of plane Larry, I know what Zenith says about it, but I can tell you for certain that an XL canopy can rise to fully open if unlatched at cruise speed, and you will not be able to get it back down and latched. I have lived through that and you can also ask the widow of the owner of that airplane about it. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 10:03 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith thrown out of plane Hi Guys, I=99ve had the canopy undone in flight and the canopy could not open far enough to dump someone unless the airspeed was in full stall. If he pitched the nose up sharply and then fell through the stall, it is possible to get ejected that way, but going anything faster than 60 and the canopy is going to stay within 10 inches of closed even if it=99s unlatched. Very unfortunate though. Larry McFarland 601HDS sold after 7 years flying Now in a Piper Cherokee ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Hey Larry, I hear what you are saying and it makes sense. However, that is definitely not what happened in my case. We were at a level cruise at a speed of abo ut 100 kts. When unlatched, the canopy flew up to about 70 degrees and the nose pitched down to about 60 degrees. My headset and ball cap were blown off immediately. The two of us were not able to pull the canopy back down -- any. I was never able to get the nose up to more than 10 degrees down and that is how we hit the ground. During my three month recuperation and the four years since, I have re-lived it many times and still don't know w hy it happened the way it did. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 7:19 pm Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Zenith thrown out of plane Hi Jay, I believe you=99re saying there was no relative wind against the cano py, but this could only occur if the plane was nearing the end of a climb o r pitch up stall condition. No, the canopy will not close in flight, nor will it open fully or much more than the drag allows at normal airspeed. Relative drag keeps the unlatched canopy at a less than quarter-open if speed=99s are above 60 because it gene rates lift and still has drag. I couldn=99t guess about below that. The effect of pitching one out of an airplane suggests a full pitch over a t nearly zero airspeed, which I=99ve done, and the negative forces ca n really throw you against the belts if you happen to be wearing them. Both of these conditions would seem to be necessary if a person were to be thro wn from the plane. I=99d think a simple hard over arc would be hard to duplicate the result. I wasn=99t there, so it=99s very possible there=99s a few more ways this could=99ve happened. Do Fly safe, Larry McFarland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Mar 30, 2013
My instructor and I had the canopy open in a similar aircraft. The Evector Sportstar is a low-wing LSA with a forward-hinged canopy (although the canopy is split behind the seats). When the canopy popped I hung on its cross-bar with all my weight but could not close it. We were close to the runway and my instructor was able to land without further incident. I don=99t recall if we were able to maintain altitude. I=99ve attached photos from another 601XL open canopy incident from 2006 or earlier. I don=99t know much else about this incident but I think it is described in the archives (the original poster was coy about the pilot and details). -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2013
The pictures tell quite the story. A.) the canopy can rise dramatically and B.) the airplane is still controllable in that condition. Another great reason for adding some kind of safety latch. FWIW - One method used to bail out of fighters during WWII was to unbuckle your belt and put one foot on the stick and push. Simple physics. I wouldn't think of flying without a seat belt on. A few times I've hit turbulence strong enough that unbelted I'd have struck my head on the cabin roof - hard! So sad..... Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397374#397374 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Mar 30, 2013
The topic has come up in the past with pilots (like Jay and Larry) reporting different experiences. Who can say why? W&B? XL vs. HD? Old style vs. newer profile canopies? Hair styles? But there is no denying the differences. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Tim, I can tell you for a fact that not all 601XLs are controllable with the can opy at its open position. The very first thing I did with my own airplane after my accident (in anoth er 601XL) was to add a tether that would only allow an unlatched canopy to open about an inch. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Tim Juhl <timjuhl(at)frontier.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 8:44 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane The pictures tell quite the story. A.) the canopy can rise dramatically an d B.) the airplane is still controllable in that condition. Another great reason for adding some kind of safety latch. So sad..... Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "andrewtub" <andrewtub(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2013
Just a guess but by the looks of where the canopy is broken he may have unfastened his seat belt to stand up and grab the canopy by the back edge and broke it while trying to close it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397383#397383 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/article_2301439_1900a0e2000005dc_595_634x370_388.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/article_2301439_1900a0e2000005dc_595_634x370_368.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
This idea sounds believable and like a real Darwin moment. We all should know by now that the only way to get an open canopy closed on an XL is to land first. Paul Camas, WA On 3/30/2013 7:59 PM, andrewtub wrote: > > Just a guess but by the looks of where the canopy is broken he may have unfastened his seat belt to stand up and grab the canopy by the back edge and broke it while trying to close it. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397383#397383 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/article_2301439_1900a0e2000005dc_595_634x370_388.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/article_2301439_1900a0e2000005dc_595_634x370_368.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
We do know that in at least a few instances the XL was controllable and could be brought to a safe landing. It would be interesting to study the factors relating to controllability but I for one will settle for installing a safety latch or tether. Many factory built airplanes have configurations where they can't remain airborne as well. For example, lose the wing root fairings on a Piper Cub and you're coming down.... Older Cessnas were prone to have doors come unlatched. If you slowed the airplane way down you might be able to close it, but I always taught my student's to focus on flying the airplane and land at a nearby airport before trying to close the door. I'm sure we'll be hearing more on the subject.... maybe we'll get some straight info that will end the speculation. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397415#397415 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Tim, The key to every safe canopy up landing to date appears to have been immediate application of full power. Andrew, The idea of the owner standing up and trying to pull the canopy down does not sound that far out there. That would explain the seat belt not being fastened, and negate the comments about the surviving pilot's gross negligence--he did get the plane down, and it is hard to tell an owner what to do while you are trying to fly his airplane. Paul, Interrupting the air over the cowling before it has a chance to lift the canopy is one factor. For those of you who want to experiment, do a tied down ground run up in strong headwind conditions, one with a 1 3/4" foam seal where the leading edge of the canopy meats the airframe and one where there is no seal affixed to the airframe. Another experiment would be to tack weld small winglets onto the rear of the canopy rails and compare the lift of the canopy in the same conditions as above. They make great handles as well. Two other measures: Ejector pins so you can intentionally lose the canopy in mid flight if you experience an engine failure and an open canopy at the same time. Second- rig the canopy latches so each side needs to be opened independently. That way your passenger can't open it for you in flight without reaching across and in front of you. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397427#397427 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Hi Sabrina, Interesting ideas. In my plane, the only control for the canopy latches is close to my left shoulder. I can't imagine a passenger getting to reach that without my permission. Also, I opened up the aluminum on the inside of the canopy frame and painted lines on the mechanism to show when each is fully latched. I often need to slam a small piece of 2x4 on the top of the frame to get the latch fully engaged. This is also an item on my pre-takeoff checklist, but I usually make sure the canopy is properly latched before starting to taxi. I don't have any tether for the canopy, but would seriously consider building one. Alas, I really haven't thought out the best way to do this. Perhaps somebody has pictures of a neat design for a canopy safety device. Paul On 3/31/2013 11:00 AM, Sabrina wrote: > > Tim, > > The key to every safe canopy up landing to date appears to have been immediate application of full power. > > Andrew, > > The idea of the owner standing up and trying to pull the canopy down does not sound that far out there. That would explain the seat belt not being fastened, and negate the comments about the surviving pilot's gross negligence--he did get the plane down, and it is hard to tell an owner what to do while you are trying to fly his airplane. > > Paul, > > Interrupting the air over the cowling before it has a chance to lift the canopy is one factor. For those of you who want to experiment, do a tied down ground run up in strong headwind conditions, one with a 1 3/4" foam seal where the leading edge of the canopy meats the airframe and one where there is no seal affixed to the airframe. > > Another experiment would be to tack weld small winglets onto the rear of the canopy rails and compare the lift of the canopy in the same conditions as above. They make great handles as well. > > Two other measures: Ejector pins so you can intentionally lose the canopy in mid flight if you experience an engine failure and an open canopy at the same time. Second- rig the canopy latches so each side needs to be opened independently. That way your passenger can't open it for you in flight without reaching across and in front of you. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397427#397427 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
I like Phillip Barnes idea: http://tinyurl.com/bs4ykbc Carlos CH601-HD, 650 canopy* * On 31 March 2013 14:28, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Sabrina, > > Interesting ideas. > > In my plane, the only control for the canopy latches is close to my left > shoulder. I can't imagine a passenger getting to reach that without my > permission. > > Also, I opened up the aluminum on the inside of the canopy frame and > painted lines on the mechanism to show when each is fully latched. I often > need to slam a small piece of 2x4 on the top of the frame to get the latch > fully engaged. This is also an item on my pre-takeoff checklist, but I > usually make sure the canopy is properly latched before starting to taxi. > > I don't have any tether for the canopy, but would seriously consider > building one. Alas, I really haven't thought out the best way to do this. > Perhaps somebody has pictures of a neat design for a canopy safety device. > > Paul > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)AOL.COM
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
This is what it looks like in real life and it certainly looks like you could be ejected if it suddenly went into a dive. In a message dated 3/30/2013 8:54:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaybannist(at)cs.com writes: Hey Larry, I hear what you are saying and it makes sense. However, that is definitely not what happened in my case. We were at a level cruise at a s peed of about 100 kts. When unlatched, the canopy flew up to about 70 degrees and the nose pitched down to about 60 degrees. My headset and ball cap were blown off immediately. The two of us were not able to pull the canopy back down -- any. I was never able to get the nose up to more than 10 degree s down and that is how we hit the ground. During my three month recuperatio n and the four years since, I have re-lived it many times and still don't kn ow why it happened the way it did. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 7:19 pm Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Zenith thrown out of plane Hi Jay, I believe you=99re saying there was no relative wind against the can opy, but this could only occur if the plane was nearing the end of a climb or pitch up stall condition. No, the canopy will not close in flight, nor will it open fully or much more than the drag allows at normal airspeed. Relative drag keeps the unlatched canopy at a less than quarter-open if speed=99s are above 60 because it gen erates lift and still has drag. I couldn=99t guess about below that. The effect of pitching one out of an airplane suggests a full pitch over at nearly zero airspeed, which I=99ve done, and the negative forces can really throw you against the belts if you happen to be wearing them. Both of these condition s would seem to be necessary if a person were to be thrown from the plane. I=99 d think a simple hard over arc would be hard to duplicate the result. I wasn=99t there, so it=99s very possible there=99s a fe w more ways this could=99 ve happened. Do Fly safe, Larry McFarland (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Some good ideas being presented here. I used two spring-loaded barrel bolts fitting into appropriate-sized holes in "L" plates, but before it breaks ground I'll want a pants-and-suspenders tether of some sort. Paul Rodriguez ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa<mailto:carlossa52(at)gmail.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane I like Phillip Barnes idea: http://tinyurl.com/bs4ykbc> Carlos CH601-HD, 650 canopy On 31 March 2013 14:28, Paul Mulwitz > wrote: > Hi Sabrina, Interesting ideas. In my plane, the only control for the canopy latches is close to my left shoulder. I can't imagine a passenger getting to reach that without my permission. Also, I opened up the aluminum on the inside of the canopy frame and painted lines on the mechanism to show when each is fully latched. I often need to slam a small piece of 2x4 on the top of the frame to get the latch fully engaged. This is also an item on my pre-takeoff checklist, but I usually make sure the canopy is properly latched before starting to taxi. I don't have any tether for the canopy, but would seriously consider building one. Alas, I really haven't thought out the best way to do this. Perhaps somebody has pictures of a neat design for a canopy safety device. Paul http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)AOL.COM
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
This is what I came up with and it can't open in flight but is so simple and easy to open on the ground. In a message dated 3/31/2013 3:20:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paulrod36(at)msn.com writes: Some good ideas being presented here. I used two spring-loaded barrel bolts fitting into appropriate-sized holes in "L" plates, but before it breaks ground I'll want a pants-and-suspenders tether of some sort. Paul Rodriguez ----- Original Message ----- From: _Carlos Sa_ (mailto:carlossa52(at)gmail.com) Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane I like Phillip Barnes idea: _http://tinyurl.com/bs4ykbc_ (http://tinyurl.com/bs4ykbc) Carlos CH601-HD, 650 canopy On 31 March 2013 14:28, Paul Mulwitz <_psm(at)att.net_ (mailto:psm(at)att.net) > wrote: (mailto:psm(at)att.net) > Hi Sabrina, Interesting ideas. In my plane, the only control for the canopy latches is close to my left shoulder. I can't imagine a passenger getting to reach that without my permission. Also, I opened up the aluminum on the inside of the canopy frame and painted lines on the mechanism to show when each is fully latched. I often need to slam a small piece of 2x4 on the top of the frame to get the latch fully engaged. This is also an item on my pre-takeoff checklist, but I usually make sure the canopy is properly latched before starting to taxi. I don't have any tether for the canopy, but would seriously consider building one. Alas, I really haven't thought out the best way to do this. Perhaps somebody has pictures of a neat design for a canopy safety device. Paul title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zen ith601-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
Is this what you are looking for? I don't have any tether for the canopy, but would seriously consider buildi ng one. Alas, I really haven't thought out the best way to do this. Perha ps somebody has pictures of a neat design for a canopy safety device.Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
The original latch design for the XL had both sides latching independantly with two stage latches. I have had mine come unlatched on one side a few times and have even been able to reclose it in flight sometimes when this has happened. With this design, there is very little danger of unlatching the other side while attempting to close one side. On the new latch design, both latches are connected together through the torque tube and move as one. Attempting to close one side if it comes open will almost certainly cause the other side to come unlatched. independently-- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. > > Hi Sabrina, > > Interesting ideas. > > In my plane, the only control for the canopy latches is close to my left shoulder. I can't imagine a passenger getting to reach that without my permission. > > Paul > > On 3/31/2013 11:00 AM, Sabrina wrote: >> >> Tim, >> >> The key to every safe canopy up landing to date appears to have been immediate application of full power. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
I have saw and have purchased long before this incident, two tool box latches made from metal. I will close the canopy, then simply close the latches like a toolbox latch. Problem solved. Installing in the next few weeks! I'll post photos! There will be one on each side. Mid canopy to side of fuselage. Chad M -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397487#397487 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 601xl battery mount/tiedowns
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2013
I've searched high and low. I just want a photo of how others may have done this. There is a larger Powersports battery from Canadian tire in there now, but I bought the small odyssey and need to adapt a bracket to make the smaller battery fit ok. Any help? Thanks! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397489#397489 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2013
One thing to consider when designing safety latches is how they can be released from the outside. If you had an accident and needed to be extricated, how would rescuers be able to get at you? An unlikely situation but one that bears thinking about. Many years ago a fellow I knew burned up in a Sea Fury when he wiped out on takeoff and rescue personnel couldn't figure out how to release the canopy. The plane hadn't been painted and he hadn't stenciled the emergency access markings on it. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397520#397520 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2013
Tim; A very valid thought that I've already considered. But you have to weigh the options and do a "risk assessment" on the idea. Having the canopy open in-flight seems to be a higher chance then a crash that is survivable yet results in a post crash fire. Also, based on the recent events in the news, it seems that the canopy opening in flight can be VERY dangerous. It doesn't matter what secondary method of canopy securment we use, none will be accessible from the outside. I'd think that the canopy could be smashed in a pinch if needed. Also, the canopy probably won't open with the structural deformity in the event of a crash anyways. My thoughts, not that they're correct, but my thoughts none the less. Just weigh the pros and cons and likelihood of each possibility. Cheers! Chad. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397524#397524 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Apr 01, 2013
An excellent point. We have spent many months, yea, many years, handling our canopies as gently as eggshells, lest we put the feared and dreaded chip or crack in them, and then forget that one good punch (from either side) will conveniently remove any obstacle to rescue..... Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: SIDESLIP<mailto:Chad2007(at)rogers.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:17 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane > Tim; A very valid thought that I've already considered. But you have to weigh the options and do a "risk assessment" on the idea. Having the canopy open in-flight seems to be a higher chance then a crash that is survivable yet results in a post crash fire. Also, based on the recent events in the news, it seems that the canopy opening in flight can be VERY dangerous. It doesn't matter what secondary method of canopy securment we use, none will be accessible from the outside. I'd think that the canopy could be smashed in a pinch if needed. Also, the canopy probably won't open with the structural deformity in the event of a crash anyways. My thoughts, not that they're correct, but my thoughts none the less. Just weigh the pros and cons and likelihood of each possibility. Cheers! Chad. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397524#397524 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397524#397524> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "Scotsman" <james.Roberts(at)standardbank.co.za>
Date: Apr 01, 2013
Lol Paul.....having crack my canopy on two occasions the last thing I am worried about is a rescuer trying to break through the canopy. A mere fart in the wrong direction should do the trick! -------- Cell +27 83 675 0815 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397544#397544 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2013
Subject: Re: 601xl battery mount/tiedowns
Chad, take a look - bottom of the page http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/ch601prjfh.htm Carlos On 31 March 2013 22:43, SIDESLIP wrote: > > I've searched high and low. I just want a photo of how others may have > done this. There is a larger Powersports battery from Canadian tire in > there now, but I bought the small odyssey and need to adapt a bracket to > make the smaller battery fit ok. > > Any help? > > Thanks! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2013
From: jpkarnes(at)comcast.net
Subject: Canopy concerns
Hi all, I have a 601 HDS that originally had the side hinging spring loaded=C2- l atch.=C2- On inspection, the DAR yanked on the canopy like mad and it sta yed put.=C2- On my MAIDEN FLIGHT, I was turning onto base (or final, I ca n't remember) when my canopy was torn off.=C2- My hat and head set blew o ff and found myself in 9.5/10 pucker conditions.=C2- I remembered to "Fly the airplane" and made my first landing without incident.=C2- I replaced =C2-the canopy with the front hinged XL variety.=C2- No further issues since the replacement. John K. 601 HDS with Stratus Subaru engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shayne & Phyllis" <pilotphyl(at)olemac.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Date: Apr 02, 2013
As an Owner/Builder of of a Zenith 650XL and a 601XL, from experience on early flights of both airplanes, you cannot count solely on the canopy locking mechanism to keep the canopy from opening in flight. Luckily, we were in the airport traffic pattern when the canopy decided to come unlatched and we were able to land without incident. The lesson learned was that both of our planes are now equipped with tether straps and an additional locking clip to prevent the canopy from opening more than about 1". The tether also provides a means to reach up and close the canopy without having to loosen your seat belt. My wife is unable to even reach the canopy once she is belted in her seat. The incident in TN with the occupant being thrown out of the plane is obviously a result of poor choices by the student and instructor. It is unfortunate that this incident will reflect poorly on the Zenith airplanes. I you are interested in seeing pictures of my tethers and latches for the 601 and/or 650, send me an e-mail. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2013
Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in one of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds. My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious. Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa area? Thanks guys! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_113.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: Barry Benson <benson.barry(at)gmail.com>
I have a 601XLB SLSA powered by a Continental 0-200. I use the following numbers: advance throttle slowly for takeoff rotation- 60 kts., climb out- 70 kts. pattern - 70 kts. base leg- 70 kts. to 65 kts. final- 65 kts. and 60 kts. over the runway numbers I use half flaps toward end of downwind, 3/4 flaps base leg, and add full flaps on final. Use light pressure for rotation and all banks. Keep ball centered. Make sure trim is set correctly, especially for final approach. Use neutral trim for takeoff. My plane is very stable and I did not experience the plus/minus 300 feet you write about. Good luck., Barry *** P.S.,You may want to view Paul Hamilton's free video on You Tube; he goes through the whole process as expertly as I have seen done for a Zodiac 601XLB. Go to You Tube, type in Paul Hamilton, and find the video for "checklist, takeoff. . . light sport airplane." Also it's better to use a flight instructor with light sport experience. I have heard of non-sport pilot instructors who have had difficulty with light sport aircraft because they lacked experience with how light sport aircraft handle. Do not try to learn to fly this plane on your own: for one, you may not have insurance coverage if you do. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:26 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this > forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown > one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled > at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an > altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help > matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways > away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have > two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 > hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of > 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two > pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. > Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a > bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar > with the engine, just not in on! > e of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there > anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, > just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch > sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could > offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane > in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice > local north until my brain bleeds. > > My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in > good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could > fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual > instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so > highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious. > > Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the > Oshawa area? > > Thanks guys! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_113.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Hi Chad, I had a couple of reactions to your comments on flying the Zodiac XL. The first is about your problem with pitch sensitivity. I wonder where your CG is. It sounds like the tiny engine - perhaps combined with a couple of hefty people in the seats - might have your CG far aft. Perhaps it is too far aft. The second reaction is about your time in spam cans. Those part 23 certified planes are all very docile compared to most experimental planes. Part 23 rules insure this. When learning to fly experimentals you need to focus on your stick and rudder work more than on spam cans. It helps to ignore your actual input forces and motions and just use whatever is needed to get the pitch, roll, and yaw attitude you want. My Zodiac XL doesn't seem particularly sensitive to me, but I have been flying light sport planes for a number of years. The last one I had before the XL was a lot lighter on the controls. It was a Tecnam Echo Super powered by a 912-ULS. To get a new person flying that plane I always insisted they hold the stick with 2 fingers. That would help keep them from over controlling. I don't think the Zodiac is particularly difficult to fly, but it is not as docile as any part 23 plane. The biggest problem I have had is a complete lack of yaw stability. This seems to come from the all flying rudder design that means there is no vertical stabilizer. There is also no part of the fuselage that is parallel to the line of flight because of the diamond shape when viewed from the top. I applied a line of automotive colored tape to the top of my engine cowling to show me which way is actually straight ahead. This makes me more comfortable knowing the plane is actually going straight - even thought the plane doesn't really care. The only time it really matters is when lining up for landing where you need to have the plane facing down the runway for a smooth touchdown. The lack of a vertical stabilizer also means forward slips have little or no impact on your landing approach angle - unlike most other planes. You need to get more than 11 degrees off center on the nose to get any result. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL, Jab 3300 - just signed out of phase I flight test. On 4/2/2013 8:26 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in on! > e of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds. > > My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious. > > Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa area? > > Thanks guys! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_113.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Hey guys. No, I've never flown my Rotax powered 601, but flew another pilots 601 with the jabiru. I've never flown the US version of ultralights. I'm in Canada, and all my ultralight experience (20 hours) was in 1232lb gross airframes. Flown the Tecnam Golf, Merlin GT, Challenger, Flightstars etc. I am about a 120 hour certified GA pilot, and all that time is over the last year and a half. So, I fly alot. As for the CG, I think on the friends XLB, we would have been slightly aft based on my own calculations later on. I've got both Ultralight (which is your sport pilot licenses) not the spam cans, and a lot of GA experience. I actually have some PITTS special stick time as well. Barry, I have seen the video you are referring to. Paul, thanks for the pointers! But no, never flown the equivalent of the US ultralights. All airplanes have been over 1000lbs that I've flown. Thanks Guys! Chad Ps, I've never flown MY airplane, only the jabiru powered one a friend owns. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397728#397728 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Can you provide pics of tethers and clips? Thanks! Chad [quote="pilotphyl(at)olemac.net"]As an Owner/Builder of of a Zenith 650XL and a 601XL, from experience on early flights of both airplanes, you cannot count solely on the canopy locking mechanism to keep the canopy from opening in flight. Luckily, we were in the airport traffic pattern when the canopy decided to come unlatched and we were able to land without incident. The lesson learned was that both of our planes are now equipped with tether straps and an additional locking clip to prevent the canopy from opening more than about 1". The tether also provides a means to reach up and close the canopy without having to loosen your seat belt. My wife is unable to even reach the canopy once she is belted in her seat. The incident in TN with the occupant being thrown out of the plane is obviously a result of poor choices by the student and instructor. It is unfortunate that this incident will reflect poorly on the Zenith airplanes. I you are interested in seeing pictures of my tethers and latches for the 601 and/or 650, send me an e-mail. > [b] -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397754#397754 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe. Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL. You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!). Patrick Hoyt N63PZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397760#397760 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted high and low since September. Chad PatrickW wrote: > > > I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before > > > Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe. > > Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL. > > You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!). > > Patrick Hoyt > N63PZ -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Have you contacted the Zenair people up in Midland? ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 2:05 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B > > I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've > hunted high and low since September. > > Chad > > > PatrickW wrote: >> >> > I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get >> > me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has >> > in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although >> > neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before >> >> >> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk >> your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very >> different than relevant experience in a specific airframe. >> >> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an >> instructor who actually owns an XL. >> >> You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would >> recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training >> and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!). >> >> Patrick Hoyt >> N63PZ > > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: Bob Haring <zman601xl(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Chad, I agree with Patrick.I drove down to Lawrenceburg (from Niagara Falls,NY) a nd received a checkout from "Buzz" at Buzz Air. Great guy, great experience ! Thoroughly enjoyed it. Bob Haring N107RW zman601xl(at)aol.com -----Original Message----- From: PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 12:55 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B > I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get m e my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess o f 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pil ots have flown an XL before Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than rele vant experience in a specific airframe. Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL. You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recom mend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared m e for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!). Patrick Hoyt N63PZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397760#397760 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Date: Apr 03, 2013
Good thread! When I did the private license training on my 601, my instructor (who was high time on singles ) took a transition training with a friend who built and flew a 601 HD. After he felt ok to teach me (5 h), we started my training. Sent from my iPhone On 2013-04-03, at 14:05, "SIDESLIP" wrote: > > I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted high and low since September. > > Chad > > > > > > PatrickW wrote: >> >>> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before >> >> >> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys. High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe. >> >> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL. >> >> You can find several references on zenith.aero. Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!). >> >> Patrick Hoyt >> N63PZ > > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
I actually JUST found a guy through Zenair fairly local that can do type training for me. Stay tuned! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397800#397800 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2013
As a CFII myself, I second Patrick's suggestion that time in type (or at least in similar aircraft) is more important than total hours. I learned a long time ago not to be awed by the hour's in a guy's logbook. I once had a high time Navy Top Gun Tomcat pilot almost kill me trying to land a C172. Let us know how it works out. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397817#397817 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gpjann1(at)netzero.com" <gpjann1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2013
Subject: Zoodiac 601 HDS flying info
Just some info on how my plane flyies which may be helpful. Using the rudder for coordinating turns is different than any other plane I've flown. Since the rudder is a flying rudder it takes very little pressure to turn when my airspeed is 80+ knts. But at 80 knts and below the rudder takes very little pressure to use, and rudder comes in quickly, too quiickly. When using the rudder you have to be aware of your airspeed or you could get yourself into a spin. This causes concern when needing to land, turning in the pattern, slowing down, and decending. You may have to change rudder presure quickly, at the right time. Other then that the plane is closely coupled, light on the ailerons, and has control even at high decent ratesand slowing down. Fly safe.. Greg Jannakos N4399 TG/Corvair ____________________________________________________________ How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/515d9fdd483dd1fdd0d5est03vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator cable clearance
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2013
Just a question - I ran a string back from the stick to check the cable clearance. The lower elevator cable seems to run awfully close to the aileron cable attachment point on the back of the torque tube. For those of you who have your ailerons hooked up, does the cable touch the torque tube when the stick is fully deflected left? I'm just wondering if I need to move the hole in the fairlead a little bit to the right to give more clearance? Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397860#397860 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/elev_800.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cable clearance
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2013
Tim. I know what you are saying. I had doubts myself when building. However, I f you build it as it is designed, it will work. Because of the third dimen sional movements of the cables, it is almost impossible to visualize or ana lyze; but trust me, it will work. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Tim Juhl <timjuhl(at)frontier.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:00 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Elevator cable clearance Just a question - I ran a string back from the stick to check the cable clearance. The lower elevator cable seems to run awfully close to the ailer on cable attachment point on the back of the torque tube. For those of you wh o have your ailerons hooked up, does the cable touch the torque tube when the stick is fully deflected left? I'm just wondering if I need to move the ho le in the fairlead a little bit to the right to give more clearance? Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "philand" <philand(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2013
I have an XL ready for 1st flt. and have read several comments about yaw stability. As a long time sailplane pilot, I wonder if it would help to put a yaw string on the canopy. I don't know haw the air currents over the canopy are, but the "yaw string" (about 6" of yarn) taped to the fwd. canopy is an extremely sensitive coordination indicator. Has anyone tried this to correct yaw? [Question] -------- Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397875#397875 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Date: Apr 04, 2013
Tim, some times those guys can be fun, though. Many , many years ago, I belonged to the New Orleans Navy Aero Club. They had some planes at Alvin Callender Field, and some at New Orleans Lakefront. It was hilarious to watch some Navy hot stick with no tail dragger time jump into a Luscombe, and snake-track a couple of miles from the tiedown to the active, (100 yards) generally including at least one 360 degree turn.... Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Juhl<mailto:timjuhl(at)frontier.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:47 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B > As a CFII myself, I second Patrick's suggestion that time in type (or at least in similar aircraft) is more important than total hours. I learned a long time ago not to be awed by the hour's in a guy's logbook. I once had a high time Navy Top Gun Tomcat pilot almost kill me trying to land a C172. Let us know how it works out. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397817#397817 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397817#397817> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 05, 2013
I doubt that it would work, the propeller would probably mess up the flow. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. On Apr 4, 2013, at 5:09 PM, philand wrote: > > I have an XL ready for 1st flt. and have read several comments about yaw stability. > > As a long time sailplane pilot, I wonder if it would help to put a yaw string on the canopy. I don't know haw the air currents over the canopy are, but the "yaw string" (about 6" of yarn) taped to the fwd. canopy is an extremely sensitive coordination indicator. Has anyone tried this to correct yaw? [Question] > > -------- > Phil > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gpjann1(at)netzero.com" <gpjann1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 05, 2013
Subject: correction to my information regarding 601HDS flying
Sorry about my mistake on flying my Zodiac 601DS.. Below is the correction to my using the rudder to fly the flying rudder: "Since the rudder is a flying rudder it takes A LOT OF RUDDER PRESURE to turn when my airspeed is 80+ knts. But at 80 knts and below the rudder takes very little pressure to use, and rudder comes in quickly, too quiickly." GPJ ____________________________________________________________ How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/515f3d3de7ba93d3d7ba8st01vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flap Switch
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2013
Has anyone found a source for a good, quality DPDT (mom) off (mom) toggle switch (preferably with a duck bill toggle)? Thanks Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397983#397983 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
Hi Tim, I think I got mine at radio shack for a couple of bucks. It has a flat handle rather than duck bill, but that is close enough. Paul Camas, WA On 4/6/2013 4:04 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Has anyone found a source for a good, quality DPDT (mom) off (mom) toggle switch (preferably with a duck bill toggle)? > > Thanks > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397983#397983 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Flap Switch
Date: Apr 06, 2013
B & C? They carry lots of the items Bob Nuckolls recommends in his designs. S700-2-7 (ON)-OFF-(ON) (+ $15.00) Unfortunately only with a "bat" handle. http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx Digikey may have flat handled ones but in the ones I've seen where the flat is plastic the plastic part tends to rotate on the metal shaft after a while. Ray Allen Company (known for their trim servos) makes a nice rocker switch (not a toggle) with two good quality micro-switches inside. The RS2 is only rated for an amp but the RS2-5 is rated for 5 amps. Because the way the switches are wired when the rocker is in the center position the motors windings are shorted which keeps the motor from coasting. http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/switches.html http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsRS2withmods.pdf -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 4:04 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Flap Switch Has anyone found a source for a good, quality DPDT (mom) off (mom) toggle switch (preferably with a duck bill toggle)? Thanks Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397983#397983 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
From: "andrewtub" <andrewtub(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2013
http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx Me and two other 601's in our club are using the S700-2-5 (ON)-OFF-ON. Momentary for the down and maintained for the up. Flaps will turn off automaticly when they hit the up limit switch. When you are ready to retract the flaps just hit the switch. This will free up your hand to do other things instead of holding the switch. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397988#397988 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
From: Steve T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2013
Www.aircraftspecialty.com has a nice aftermarket flap handle that fits over a standard size existing toggle. Steve Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2013, at 18:35, "Craig Payne" wrote: > > B & C? They carry lots of the items Bob Nuckolls recommends in his designs. > > S700-2-7 (ON)-OFF-(ON) (+ $15.00) > > Unfortunately only with a "bat" handle. > > http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx > > Digikey may have flat handled ones but in the ones I've seen where the flat > is plastic the plastic part tends to rotate on the metal shaft after a > while. > > Ray Allen Company (known for their trim servos) makes a nice rocker switch > (not a toggle) with two good quality micro-switches inside. The RS2 is only > rated for an amp but the RS2-5 is rated for 5 amps. Because the way the > switches are wired when the rocker is in the center position the motors > windings are shorted which keeps the motor from coasting. > > http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/switches.html > http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf > http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsRS2withmods.pdf > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 4:04 PM > To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Zenith601-List: Flap Switch > > > Has anyone found a source for a good, quality DPDT (mom) off (mom) toggle > switch (preferably with a duck bill toggle)? > > Thanks > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397983#397983 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2013
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
From: Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com>
Have you tried B&C Electronics? Check out Aeroelectric Connection by Bob Nuchols. www.bandc.biz will get you there. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Has anyone found a source for a good, quality DPDT (mom) off (mom) toggle > switch (preferably with a duck bill toggle)? > > Thanks > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397983#397983 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2013
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Spar Cutout Help!
Building the 601XLB... I have the pre-cut side skin, so the spar cutout has been made by the factory along with most of the rivet lines, etc. The problem is that with everything in the proper position, The spar greatly favors the aft edge of the cutout instead of being nicely centered. Not so much that the wing won't go in, but not an abundance of clearance either. At first I thought I had managed to get spar installed 10mm too far aft, but that is not the case. I've very carefully checked everything to plan. The skin is set so that there is the 24mm of overlap with the tail skin, the pre-drilled rivet lines that go up from the gear channel are in the right place, top of the skin is even with the longeron, etc. Those of you with the cnc'd side skins - where did your center spar end up in relation to the opening? Thanks, Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL www.ilrt66.com "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
From: "smgores" <smgores(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2013
Tim, Bob Nuckolls shows how to make your own flap switch handle.In the 2nd picture he mentions aluminum but I think he meant a type of plastic for the handle. See the 8,9,10 and 11 pics down,starting with FLAPS1.JPG http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/ Mike Rochester,mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398077#398077 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Switch
From: Steve T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2013
I don't think the post worked yesterday, but we make flap handles out of aluminum and powdercoat them. We have sold very many and received lots f positive feedback. Steve www.aircraftspecialty.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 7, 2013, at 14:35, "smgores" wrote: > > Tim, > Bob Nuckolls shows how to make your own flap switch handle.In the 2nd picture he mentions aluminum but I think he meant a type of plastic for the handle. > See the 8,9,10 and 11 pics down,starting with FLAPS1.JPG > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/ > > Mike > Rochester,mi. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398077#398077 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar Cutout Help!
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2013
My skin didn't have the spar cutout although the factory marked the location to cut. The skin did have the holes drilled but in some areas they were not a great match. This was especially true on the bottom edge of the skin behind the gear channel. I wouldn't worry too much if the cutout is off slightly. You can trim it to fit better if you like. My spar was closer to the rear predrilled rivet line so I decided to make new ones. The wing will cover the unused holes by the spar and the "T" shaped gusset that comes with the upgrade kit will cover the rest. Good luck! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398109#398109 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2013
From: Peter Chapman <pmchap(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
Maybe it has been mentioned somewhere on this list (I don't keep close track any more), but I came across another example of a 601 with a forward hinged canopy opening in flight. This one was in the UK in May 2012. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/october_2012/zenair_ch_601hds_zodiac__g_cezv.cfm " However, at about 1,200 ft, he encountered a "bump of turbulence" which the pilot likened to driving over "a speed hump too fast". He heard a click and felt a draught in the cockpit which had not been there before. He immediately noticed that the canopy was displaced on the passenger's side and that the hook on that side had popped out. As he was still only a few miles from Swansea, he decided to return and fly a gentle circuit to land and investigate. As a precaution, he put his left arm through the sliding window on his side in order to hold the canopy down in case the other hook on this side also unlatched, which it did shortly afterwards. Despite still having his arm hooked around the canopy, he could not prevent it opening about 12-14 inches, although he believes he was preventing it opening further. He states that he was surprised at the effect of the unlatched canopy on the aircraft's performance and handling; even with full power applied, he was having to descend and also having to exert considerable back-pressure on the control column to prevent the nose from pitching down. " The aircraft was landed, heavily, just short of a runway through a bush. Despite remaining on its gear, something had broken so the aircraft then burned. Pilot evacuated, no injuries. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith thrown out of plane
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2013
When my canopy came open in flight, the first indication was a draft that hadn't been there before. I was lucky enough to have made it back to the airport before it opened up entirely (just after turning onto final), and was able to land safely. Do you guys know about the www.zenith.aero builder's site....? - Pat Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398364#398364 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Pedal Travel
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2013
I did a search but could not find this info. I'm trying to decide where to set my rudder pedals and need to know how much they travel forward from the neutral position when fully deflected (nose gear and rudder cables attached.) With this info I'll be able to adjust for maximum legroom without worrying about running out of rudder or ground steering. Thanks! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398555#398555 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2013
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
Tim, I take it you don't have cables to the rudder yet as there is a specification for rudder travel. I will be at the airport tomorrow and can look at mine. On 04/13/2013 4:33 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > I did a search but could not find this info. I'm trying to decide where to set my rudder pedals and need to know how much they travel forward from the neutral position when fully deflected (nose gear and rudder cables attached.) With this info I'll be able to adjust for maximum legroom without worrying about running out of rudder or ground steering. > > Thanks! > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398555#398555 > > -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel(at)nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2013
You are correct. I will be installing the nose strut and making rudder cables in the next few weeks. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398574#398574 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
From: "dalemed" <dalemed(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2013
2" should do it (neutral to firewall) Dale -------- Dale Flying Cessna 170B Building Zenith CH650 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398580#398580 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spats on wheels
From: Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM>
Date: Apr 15, 2013
Hello. I land mostly on grass airfields. I don't use wheel pants. Does anyone use spats on their wheels instead of wheel pants? Thanks. Regards, Damien Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2013
From: xl <xl(at)prosody.org>
Subject: 601 on floats - is any one out there?
Does any one know of a 601 on floats that I may be able to go up in? Thanks, Joe Edwards CH601XLB @ BFI, 780 hours Jabiru 3300A, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2013
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
Tim, I expect you have already received this from someone but I just found the note. On mine, with both peddles at the same position, they are 6 1/8 inch from the aft side (seat side) of the peddle bar to the firewall. At the extreme rudder deflection, the distances are 8 5/8 and 4 1/4 inches for the two peddles. This may be slightly closer to the firewall than some would do it. I have a tall friend who flies with me and I moved the peddles as far forward as possible. On 04/13/2013 10:26 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote: > Tim, > I take it you don't have cables to the rudder yet as there is a > specification for rudder travel. I will be at the airport tomorrow and > can look at mine. > > > On 04/13/2013 4:33 PM, Tim Juhl wrote: >> >> I did a search but could not find this info. I'm trying to decide >> where to set my rudder pedals and need to know how much they travel >> forward from the neutral position when fully deflected (nose gear and >> rudder cables attached.) With this info I'll be able to adjust for >> maximum legroom without worrying about running out of rudder or >> ground steering. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Tim >> >> -------- >> ______________ >> CFII >> Champ L16A flying >> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A >> Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398555#398555 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel(at)nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2013
Mark, See if I have this right - from neutral, your rudders move a little more than two inches in each direction? That corresponds to other info I've gotten. I may set my neutral even closer to the firewall than you. My experience is limited but I could have used a bit more room in the two Zodiacs I've flown in. Thanks! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399352#399352 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tool safety
From: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com>
Date: May 09, 2013
Everyone be careful when working with plywood on a router table. I cut my index finger off this weekend. Luckily it was able to be reattach. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400207#400207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tool safety
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Holy cow! Sorry for your misfortune. A good lesson for all of us. I hope your finger heals well and you get the use of it back. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400267#400267 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Question
From: "ray.3191" <Ray.3191(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Hi Larry I decided to go with the Viking 110hp. Great firewall forward price, the quality and engineering is second to none. Cheers Ray Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400336#400336 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 22, 2013
Well all...... Here is my update! Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane! Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well! Thanks for all the help! Chad C-GYXQ Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me! Here is the second flight quick video. http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... :-( -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM>
Date: May 22, 2013
I put VGs on the elevator of my 601 HDS and that stopped the thumping of the nose. I can hold the nose off as long as I like now. Nice airplane. Regards, Damien Sent from my iPad On May 22, 2013, at 8:41 PM, "SIDESLIP" wrote: > > Well all...... Here is my update! > > Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. > > So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol > > I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane! > > Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. > > Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well! > > Thanks for all the help! > > Chad C-GYXQ > Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me! > > Here is the second flight quick video. > > http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI > > > Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... :-( > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM>
Date: May 22, 2013
I should have said that I installed the VGs on the horizontal stabilizer, not the elevator. Regards, Damien N48TK 601 HDS with Rotax 912 UL Sent from my iPad On May 22, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Damien Graham wrote: > > I put VGs on the elevator of my 601 HDS and that stopped the thumping of the nose. I can hold the nose off as long as I like now. > Nice airplane. > Regards, > Damien > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 22, 2013, at 8:41 PM, "SIDESLIP" wrote: > >> >> Well all...... Here is my update! >> >> Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. >> >> So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol >> >> I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane! >> >> Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. >> >> Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well! >> >> Thanks for all the help! >> >> Chad C-GYXQ >> Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me! >> >> Here is the second flight quick video. >> >> http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI >> >> >> Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... :-( >> >> -------- >> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Hi Chad, I'm far from an expert after around 50 hours in my XL. Still, I will try to answer a few of your questions. On take-off it sounds like you are waiting too long to rotate. If you take off with no flaps your stall speed must be no more than 45 knots. If you use flaps (like I do) it is even less. You might try rotating shortly after you start your take-off roll and let the plane decide when to fly. I've found 1/2 flaps to be ideal for take-off. Full flap take-off works but the airspeed isn't enough for good control in the first stage of flight. I've never measured my take off roll but I would guess it is between 200 and 300 feet. Of course your take-off roll will be longer due to your smaller engine - I have a Jabiru 3300. On the landing issue - it sounds like you are not slowing down enough on your final approach. I try to approach around 60 knots but that is probably too fast as well. Ideal approach speed should be 1.3 times your stall speed in your current configuration. Excess float on landing can be fixed with flaps and slower approach speeds. When you get close to the final landing altitude you should adjust your pitch to your desired landing pitch (this is called flaring). If your pitch has the nose just above the runway on touchdown it seems unlikely the nose will crash down. If you touch down with the nose wheel very high then it can fall and hit the runway harder. Have fun, Paul Camas, WA On 5/22/2013 5:41 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Well all...... Here is my update! > > Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. > > So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol > > I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane! > > Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. > > Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well! > > Thanks for all the help! > > Chad C-GYXQ > Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me! > > Here is the second flight quick video. > > http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI > > > Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... :-( > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 23, 2013
Thanks everyone for all the feedback! I agree, that the rotation speed is too high. As for the landing, I cross the numbers between 60-65kts. I go into the flare, and the mains touch ever so lightly, and I hold the nose up as long as possible. I think this is where the issue is arising. With the nose held off, it suddenly loses elevator authority on the rollout and drops the nose. Next time I fly, I'm going to try to lower the nose fairly quickly, or maybe even fly it onto the runway at a lower speed. These are all flapped landings, usually using full flap on final. I mean, other then these two items, she comes off with authority and flies really well. As for the lesser power of the Rotax, I've flown a jabiru 3300 in a 601XLB and it had no where near the pull this Rotax does. It accelerates like nothing very rapidly and climbs unbelievably. This is actually the most surprising part of flying this plane! It still shocks me every time I advance the throttle! The airspeed winds up fast! Thanks again! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401184#401184 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Date: May 23, 2013
I turned my undercart around, when I upgraded to the 'B', best thing I ever did, I can hold the nose off, right down to walking speed. Can do a really short field take-offs - as I can lift the nose wheel long before she is ready to fly. Only thing to watch out for is a heavy passenger climbing in, she can tip on her tail. Jonathan 500hrs + and loving it. -----Original Message----- From: SIDESLIP Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:40 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B Thanks everyone for all the feedback! I agree, that the rotation speed is too high. As for the landing, I cross the numbers between 60-65kts. I go into the flare, and the mains touch ever so lightly, and I hold the nose up as long as possible. I think this is where the issue is arising. With the nose held off, it suddenly loses elevator authority on the rollout and drops the nose. Next time I fly, I'm going to try to lower the nose fairly quickly, or maybe even fly it onto the runway at a lower speed. These are all flapped landings, usually using full flap on final. I mean, other then these two items, she comes off with authority and flies really well. As for the lesser power of the Rotax, I've flown a jabiru 3300 in a 601XLB and it had no where near the pull this Rotax does. It accelerates like nothing very rapidly and climbs unbelievably. This is actually the most surprising part of flying this plane! It still shocks me every time I advance the throttle! The airspeed winds up fast! Thanks again! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401184#401184 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B
Hi Chad, I understand your Rotax works well and the Jabiru you flew had issues. Perhaps the big question is what propeller is used. Many Jabiru installations use the Sensenich ground adjustable propeller which is really designed to work with the Rotax and doesn't do well with Jabiru. My plane uses a wooden Sensenich propeller (64ZK49) and accelerates quite well. The extra 20 or 30 horsepower should be noticeable in all realms of flight. You may also find a tiny change in the propeller pitch has a large impact in both acceleration and cruise speed. I agree with Johnathan's comment about the installation of the landing gear spring. You need to have the flat end forward. Older drawings show the flat end aft and the angled end forward. This moves the main gear back a few inches and puts more load on the nose gear. You really want the main gear to touch down before the nose gear, but you don't get extra points for having the pitch any higher than necessary to guarantee this. If you hold the pitch higher than necessary then the fall of the nose gear can pick up enough speed to slam down on the runway. If you lower the nose at a high speed you may find the nose gear isn't very happy. You really want to hold the nose off until the elevator won't hold it any more. Paul On 5/23/2013 6:40 AM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Thanks everyone for all the feedback! I agree, that the rotation speed is too high. As for the landing, I cross the numbers between 60-65kts. I go into the flare, and the mains touch ever so lightly, and I hold the nose up as long as possible. I think this is where the issue is arising. With the nose held off, it suddenly loses elevator authority on the rollout and drops the nose. Next time I fly, I'm going to try to lower the nose fairly quickly, or maybe even fly it onto the runway at a lower speed. These are all flapped landings, usually using full flap on final. > > I mean, other then these two items, she comes off with authority and flies really well. As for the lesser power of the Rotax, I've flown a jabiru 3300 in a 601XLB and it had no where near the pull this Rotax does. It accelerates like nothing very rapidly and climbs unbelievably. This is actually the most surprising part of flying this plane! It still shocks me every time I advance the throttle! The airspeed winds up fast! > > Thanks again! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401184#401184 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 25, 2013
So I read all 40 pages thoroughly, and much of it does make sense. It appears to be a series of compounding issues that simply escalated an already borderline wing design. My question is this... Does anyone know if the COMPLETE Bravo mods were tested for flutter, strength etc? The FAA reccomended that they (Zenith) run through further testing for structure and flutter. Here's where I stand.... I own a 601XL-B that climbs like a rocket, and cruises 100-110kts happily, and the aircraft seems to perform great. HOWEVER, this IS my first Homebuilt, and I didn't buy it. I am highly mechanically enclined, so I know mechanics and the the basic engineering behind it all. My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For example, my V-Speeds are as follows... Vso- 44kts Vs - 51kts Va- 85kts Vno- 113kts VNE - 140kts VX - 58kts VY - 60kts I've found many MANY different versions of the numbers, and that concerns me. After reading the FAA report, Va should be 80-82kts, Vno 103kts or lower. The VNE seemed to be the most consistent at 140kts (16mph) The rudder upper bolts seem to wear and get play In them, there is flap stops, which I have never seen on a single zodiac yet, and haven't any idea what they look like. There are just so many variables..... Is there anything that anyone can say to help ease my mind? What does the general concensus say about this airplane, both before and after the Bravo Mod? How sloppy do the cables need to get to become a hazard? My bottom line is that I am DEEPLY in love with flying the airplane, it's performance and slickness! It's a sexy looking airplane, and I get stopped for photo ops everywhere I go. It's amazing. The performance is unreal! BUT, and a BIG BIG BUT here..... How safe is this airplane? I have a G-Meter so I can monitor so that I'm not stressing the airframe. I don't jerk the controls, I'm smooth with them. I don't push the airplane or "hot dog" it. I just fly it like I would a 152. I can see how one would get in trouble quick though, because it IS so much fun to fly! But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters and a 7 week old baby boy. I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. They have a blast it seems! Chad..... Fighting to put my mind to rest...... Or sell this and buy a 152! Lol. At least I know they don't break-up in flight. Thanks in advance! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 25, 2013
***Edit*** I didn't BUILD it. Friggen autocorrect! -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401366#401366 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2013
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: Barry Benson <benson.barry(at)gmail.com>
Hi, I had the same concerns about the efficacy of the mods. However, those concerns no longer exist as I have flown my plane, read the articles, and contacted such people as Steve Flatum and Paul Hamilton. (See You Tube videos under their names. Also see You Tube video interview with, I believe, Michael Heintz.) I think a simple control tension gauge sold at Aircraft Spruce and a ballistic parachute, which can be retrofitted to the 601XL, would go a long way in reassuring you that the plane is safe. I have great confidence that the B mod has worked to correct any problem with the wing structure; no 601XL, which has had the B mod completed, has been involved in any incident relating to wing failure that I know of. After all, the 601XL has been the most scrutinized light sport of all light sports-- the FAA, outside engineers, testing in Germany, etc. My plane was factory built at AMD and when I purchased it, i had the parachute installed. I feel very safe and secure flying the airplane, but I know that if any issue arises, that the parachute is available. Barry On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 12:07 AM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > So I read all 40 pages thoroughly, and much of it does make sense. It > appears to be a series of compounding issues that simply escalated an > already borderline wing design. > > My question is this... Does anyone know if the COMPLETE Bravo mods were > tested for flutter, strength etc? The FAA reccomended that they (Zenith) > run through further testing for structure and flutter. > > Here's where I stand.... > > I own a 601XL-B that climbs like a rocket, and cruises 100-110kts happily, > and the aircraft seems to perform great. HOWEVER, this IS my first > Homebuilt, and I didn't buy it. I am highly mechanically enclined, so I > know mechanics and the the basic engineering behind it all. > > My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For > example, my V-Speeds are as follows... > > Vso- 44kts > Vs - 51kts > Va- 85kts > Vno- 113kts > VNE - 140kts > VX - 58kts > VY - 60kts > > I've found many MANY different versions of the numbers, and that concerns > me. After reading the FAA report, Va should be 80-82kts, Vno 103kts or > lower. The VNE seemed to be the most consistent at 140kts (16mph) > > The rudder upper bolts seem to wear and get play In them, there is flap > stops, which I have never seen on a single zodiac yet, and haven't any idea > what they look like. There are just so many variables..... > > Is there anything that anyone can say to help ease my mind? What does the > general concensus say about this airplane, both before and after the Bravo > Mod? How sloppy do the cables need to get to become a hazard? My bottom > line is that I am DEEPLY in love with flying the airplane, it's performance > and slickness! It's a sexy looking airplane, and I get stopped for photo > ops everywhere I go. It's amazing. The performance is unreal! > > BUT, and a BIG BIG BUT here..... > > How safe is this airplane? I have a G-Meter so I can monitor so that I'm > not stressing the airframe. I don't jerk the controls, I'm smooth with > them. I don't push the airplane or "hot dog" it. I just fly it like I would > a 152. I can see how one would get in trouble quick though, because it IS > so much fun to fly! > > But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill > me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters > and a 7 week old baby boy. > > I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and > HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. > They have a blast it seems! > > Chad..... Fighting to put my mind to rest...... > Or sell this and buy a 152! Lol. At least I know they don't break-up in > flight. > > Thanks in advance! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
Hi Chad, I feel your pain. I will try to address all of the issues you raised, but I'm sure I will forget some (rather than avoid them). Please feel free to ask any questions again. First, let me say I too have issues with my Zodiac XL with mods. The good news is I had much greater ones and feel a lot better now than I did when the upgrade was first announced. In general, I feel confident in the structure now and believe it is possible to safely fly this plane. There are limitations from my point of view, but the structural issues seem to have been solved. The biggest limitation for me is the light wing loading when combined with unstable air. You get thrown around the sky compared to planes with heavier wing loading. A C-150 would have similar problems but not quite as bad. A C-182 will provide much more reliable and comfortable transportation in most conditions, but you will pay for this comfort and convenience. I was not convinced the design was really fixed after reading the big report from the FAA. I am not an aeronautical engineer and apparently I didn't interpret the jargon correctly. I had a lucky meeting with the guy whose name appears on the bottom of that report, Wes Ryan, at an ASTM F37 meeting about a year after the report was issued. We discussed the Zodiac issue for around 20 minutes. He convinced me that my interpretation of the document was incorrect. They really did find design problems with the Zodiac XL, and they really were fixed with the upgrade package. History has supported this idea. There have not been any more structural failures after installing the upgrade. By the way, I have not changed the designation of my plane by adding the "B" to its name. This is very difficult to do after the plane is registered and I saw no reason to go through all that. Calling it "Upgraded" is just as informative as adding the "B". It is different for Zenith who sells kits long before they are registered. There are a number of good reasons why you get different numbers from different builders. All Zodiac XLs are not identical. Indeed, each one is unique. There is no version control at Zenith, and changes are made willy nilly whenever they feel like it. I doubt there is any reliable way to track the changes that might appear in any given instance of the XL. This is not really a problem, but it does mean you will get differences from one plane to another. Of course it matters a great deal what engine you mount after finishing building the kit. My point is you shouldn't lose sleep over the different V speeds reported by different builders. These planes are all built by amateurs and mostly by people building their first plane. The rigging is less than optimum on many of them. While there are problems with the design this is true of all planes. The big problem - in flight structural failures - is fixed now. The little problems are easy to live with if you operate the plane in a conservative fashion and under weather conditions that are reasonably benign. I agree there is a problem in the rudder hinge area. I added bushings to mine after seeing wear in the first few hours of flight. The original design (at least the design as it appeared in my prints) had steel rubbing against nylon each time the rudder was moved. This isn't a good thing. Adding bushings so the steel is rubbing against a hard and lubricated bushing seems to work a lot better. I have nylon stops on the upward movement of the flaps. They are easy to see from the top of the wing. Each flap has a couple of pieces of nylon (1/8" sheet?) stuffed between the skin layers and riveted in place. The nylon sticks out perhaps 1/4 inch from the top skin and the flap presses against the stops. It is part of my normal preflight inspection to try to wiggle the flaps. If they move at all I check to make sure they are fully up. If they still move (they haven't yet in my case) I would not fly the plane. I do not know if the plane has been fully tested for flutter and other bad juju since the mod was installed. This is a question for Zenith. I am comfortable with the fact that history has shown the mod to be effective. All the other possible tests only hope to predict the good outcome we actually see now. For what its worth I consider my XL to be as safe as you might expect from any home built airplane. It has limitations, but they are not particularly bad ones. I only fly in nice weather, and consider the XL to be a fair weather plane. I would prefer to have a heavier and more powerful plane but my lack of a medical certificate currently limits me to light-sport designs. The XL is a reasonable example of the high end of these planes. If the rules for medical certificates change in the USA it is likely I will trade up to something bigger, heavier, and more expensive to operate. Depending on the change I will probable go to the upper limit of planes I can legally fly. For other people who treasure inexpensive flying with reasonable cross country capability in good weather I am comfortable recommending the XL as a possible choice. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA USA On 5/25/2013 9:07 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > So I read all 40 pages thoroughly, and much of it does make sense. It appears to be a series of compounding issues that simply escalated an already borderline wing design. > > My question is this... Does anyone know if the COMPLETE Bravo mods were tested for flutter, strength etc? The FAA reccomended that they (Zenith) run through further testing for structure and flutter. > > Here's where I stand.... > > I own a 601XL-B that climbs like a rocket, and cruises 100-110kts happily, and the aircraft seems to perform great. HOWEVER, this IS my first Homebuilt, and I didn't buy it. I am highly mechanically enclined, so I know mechanics and the the basic engineering behind it all. > > My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For example, my V-Speeds are as follows... > > Vso- 44kts > Vs - 51kts > Va- 85kts > Vno- 113kts > VNE - 140kts > VX - 58kts > VY - 60kts > > I've found many MANY different versions of the numbers, and that concerns me. After reading the FAA report, Va should be 80-82kts, Vno 103kts or lower. The VNE seemed to be the most consistent at 140kts (16mph) > > The rudder upper bolts seem to wear and get play In them, there is flap stops, which I have never seen on a single zodiac yet, and haven't any idea what they look like. There are just so many variables..... > > Is there anything that anyone can say to help ease my mind? What does the general concensus say about this airplane, both before and after the Bravo Mod? How sloppy do the cables need to get to become a hazard? My bottom line is that I am DEEPLY in love with flying the airplane, it's performance and slickness! It's a sexy looking airplane, and I get stopped for photo ops everywhere I go. It's amazing. The performance is unreal! > > BUT, and a BIG BIG BUT here..... > > How safe is this airplane? I have a G-Meter so I can monitor so that I'm not stressing the airframe. I don't jerk the controls, I'm smooth with them. I don't push the airplane or "hot dog" it. I just fly it like I would a 152. I can see how one would get in trouble quick though, because it IS so much fun to fly! > > But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters and a 7 week old baby boy. > > I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. They have a blast it seems! > > Chad..... Fighting to put my mind to rest...... > Or sell this and buy a 152! Lol. At least I know they don't break-up in flight. > > Thanks in advance! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <rpf(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
Date: May 26, 2013
They did a ground vibration test (in Germany) on a pre-mod XL, with only 5lbs of cable tension and did not get any flutter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 5:39 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions... Hi Chad, I feel your pain. I will try to address all of the issues you raised, but I'm sure I will forget some (rather than avoid them). Please feel free to ask any questions again. First, let me say I too have issues with my Zodiac XL with mods. The good news is I had much greater ones and feel a lot better now than I did when the upgrade was first announced. In general, I feel confident in the structure now and believe it is possible to safely fly this plane. There are limitations from my point of view, but the structural issues seem to have been solved. The biggest limitation for me is the light wing loading when combined with unstable air. You get thrown around the sky compared to planes with heavier wing loading. A C-150 would have similar problems but not quite as bad. A C-182 will provide much more reliable and comfortable transportation in most conditions, but you will pay for this comfort and convenience. I was not convinced the design was really fixed after reading the big report from the FAA. I am not an aeronautical engineer and apparently I didn't interpret the jargon correctly. I had a lucky meeting with the guy whose name appears on the bottom of that report, Wes Ryan, at an ASTM F37 meeting about a year after the report was issued. We discussed the Zodiac issue for around 20 minutes. He convinced me that my interpretation of the document was incorrect. They really did find design problems with the Zodiac XL, and they really were fixed with the upgrade package. History has supported this idea. There have not been any more structural failures after installing the upgrade. By the way, I have not changed the designation of my plane by adding the "B" to its name. This is very difficult to do after the plane is registered and I saw no reason to go through all that. Calling it "Upgraded" is just as informative as adding the "B". It is different for Zenith who sells kits long before they are registered. There are a number of good reasons why you get different numbers from different builders. All Zodiac XLs are not identical. Indeed, each one is unique. There is no version control at Zenith, and changes are made willy nilly whenever they feel like it. I doubt there is any reliable way to track the changes that might appear in any given instance of the XL. This is not really a problem, but it does mean you will get differences from one plane to another. Of course it matters a great deal what engine you mount after finishing building the kit. My point is you shouldn't lose sleep over the different V speeds reported by different builders. These planes are all built by amateurs and mostly by people building their first plane. The rigging is less than optimum on many of them. While there are problems with the design this is true of all planes. The big problem - in flight structural failures - is fixed now. The little problems are easy to live with if you operate the plane in a conservative fashion and under weather conditions that are reasonably benign. I agree there is a problem in the rudder hinge area. I added bushings to mine after seeing wear in the first few hours of flight. The original design (at least the design as it appeared in my prints) had steel rubbing against nylon each time the rudder was moved. This isn't a good thing. Adding bushings so the steel is rubbing against a hard and lubricated bushing seems to work a lot better. I have nylon stops on the upward movement of the flaps. They are easy to see from the top of the wing. Each flap has a couple of pieces of nylon (1/8" sheet?) stuffed between the skin layers and riveted in place. The nylon sticks out perhaps 1/4 inch from the top skin and the flap presses against the stops. It is part of my normal preflight inspection to try to wiggle the flaps. If they move at all I check to make sure they are fully up. If they still move (they haven't yet in my case) I would not fly the plane. I do not know if the plane has been fully tested for flutter and other bad juju since the mod was installed. This is a question for Zenith. I am comfortable with the fact that history has shown the mod to be effective. All the other possible tests only hope to predict the good outcome we actually see now. For what its worth I consider my XL to be as safe as you might expect from any home built airplane. It has limitations, but they are not particularly bad ones. I only fly in nice weather, and consider the XL to be a fair weather plane. I would prefer to have a heavier and more powerful plane but my lack of a medical certificate currently limits me to light-sport designs. The XL is a reasonable example of the high end of these planes. If the rules for medical certificates change in the USA it is likely I will trade up to something bigger, heavier, and more expensive to operate. Depending on the change I will probable go to the upper limit of planes I can legally fly. For other people who treasure inexpensive flying with reasonable cross country capability in good weather I am comfortable recommending the XL as a possible choice. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA USA On 5/25/2013 9:07 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > So I read all 40 pages thoroughly, and much of it does make sense. It appears to be a series of compounding issues that simply escalated an already borderline wing design. > > My question is this... Does anyone know if the COMPLETE Bravo mods were tested for flutter, strength etc? The FAA reccomended that they (Zenith) run through further testing for structure and flutter. > > Here's where I stand.... > > I own a 601XL-B that climbs like a rocket, and cruises 100-110kts happily, and the aircraft seems to perform great. HOWEVER, this IS my first Homebuilt, and I didn't buy it. I am highly mechanically enclined, so I know mechanics and the the basic engineering behind it all. > > My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For example, my V-Speeds are as follows... > > Vso- 44kts > Vs - 51kts > Va- 85kts > Vno- 113kts > VNE - 140kts > VX - 58kts > VY - 60kts > > I've found many MANY different versions of the numbers, and that concerns me. After reading the FAA report, Va should be 80-82kts, Vno 103kts or lower. The VNE seemed to be the most consistent at 140kts (16mph) > > The rudder upper bolts seem to wear and get play In them, there is flap stops, which I have never seen on a single zodiac yet, and haven't any idea what they look like. There are just so many variables..... > > Is there anything that anyone can say to help ease my mind? What does the general concensus say about this airplane, both before and after the Bravo Mod? How sloppy do the cables need to get to become a hazard? My bottom line is that I am DEEPLY in love with flying the airplane, it's performance and slickness! It's a sexy looking airplane, and I get stopped for photo ops everywhere I go. It's amazing. The performance is unreal! > > BUT, and a BIG BIG BUT here..... > > How safe is this airplane? I have a G-Meter so I can monitor so that I'm not stressing the airframe. I don't jerk the controls, I'm smooth with them. I don't push the airplane or "hot dog" it. I just fly it like I would a 152. I can see how one would get in trouble quick though, because it IS so much fun to fly! > > But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters and a 7 week old baby boy. > > I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. They have a blast it seems! > > Chad..... Fighting to put my mind to rest...... > Or sell this and buy a 152! Lol. At least I know they don't break-up in flight. > > Thanks in advance! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 26, 2013
Keep in mind that the original factory demonstrator/prototype flew 1700 hours without the mod with absolutely no evidence of a problem. And this airplane was flown to air shows all around the country and flown by many prospective customers with no experience in the airplane. On one trip to Sun'N'Fun, I flew my pre-modification airplane through turbulence so severe I think it would have thrown me out of the plane if I hadn't been strapped in. There was no way to hold altitude, I just slowed down to about 80 kts and rode it out. The airplane came through undamaged. The modification kit has almost certainly increased the safety margin of the airplane. No airplane is 100% safe and if you try hard enough, you can rip the wings off almost any airplane. Fly it within the design limits and keep it well maintained and you should be as safe as you can be in any light airplane. As far as the V speeds you list, your So and Vs numbers appear to be in the wrong units - the numbers look correct for miles per hour. In any case, these numbers may vary a bit from one airplane to another because no two homebuilts are identical. And most of these numbers are valid for only one specific set of conditions: standard sea level atmosphere at gross weight. Stall speeds and maneuvering speed will all decrease with a decrease in weight. And remember: flying at a speed less than Va does not mean you can't break the airplane, it just means that in level flight in heavy turbulence the wing will stall before it breaks. If the turbulence is severe enough, even that isn't a guarantee (stay away from thunderstorms). -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. On May 26, 2013, at 12:07 AM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For example, my V-Speeds are as follows... > > Vso- 44kts > Vs - 51kts > Va- 85kts > Vno- 113kts > VNE - 140kts > VX - 58kts > VY - 60kts > > > But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters and a 7 week old baby boy. > > I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. They have a blast it seems! > > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
Date: May 26, 2013
I more or less agree with Paul M but there are also other other ways to de-epidermize the feline. Cables may be nice, but we can steal a page from the RV-whatever book, and put in push-pull aileron tubes. A very easy fix, which obviates any tension problems. If you ain't got no cables, you don't gotta worry about them. Also, after the mod was done on Zenith's demo XL, if memory serves, they reported that they got a test pilot to wring it out. He never publicly stated what he did, and they weren't about to, (probably to avoid encouraging those whose macho score exceeds their IQ), but the report was that the wings were "very robust". And, of course there's always the BRS, which, for under 5 grand, will allow you to rip apart your sweet little ride for the sake of a bar story.... Paul R From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:psm(at)att.net> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 5:39 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions... > Hi Chad, I feel your pain. I will try to address all of the issues you raised, but I'm sure I will forget some (rather than avoid them). Please feel free to ask any questions again. First, let me say I too have issues with my Zodiac XL with mods. The good news is I had much greater ones and feel a lot better now than I did when the upgrade was first announced. In general, I feel confident in the structure now and believe it is possible to safely fly this plane. There are limitations from my point of view, but the structural issues seem to have been solved. The biggest limitation for me is the light wing loading when combined with unstable air. You get thrown around the sky compared to planes with heavier wing loading. A C-150 would have similar problems but not quite as bad. A C-182 will provide much more reliable and comfortable transportation in most conditions, but you will pay for this comfort and convenience. I was not convinced the design was really fixed after reading the big report from the FAA. I am not an aeronautical engineer and apparently I didn't interpret the jargon correctly. I had a lucky meeting with the guy whose name appears on the bottom of that report, Wes Ryan, at an ASTM F37 meeting about a year after the report was issued. We discussed the Zodiac issue for around 20 minutes. He convinced me that my interpretation of the document was incorrect. They really did find design problems with the Zodiac XL, and they really were fixed with the upgrade package. History has supported this idea. There have not been any more structural failures after installing the upgrade. By the way, I have not changed the designation of my plane by adding the "B" to its name. This is very difficult to do after the plane is registered and I saw no reason to go through all that. Calling it "Upgraded" is just as informative as adding the "B". It is different for Zenith who sells kits long before they are registered. There are a number of good reasons why you get different numbers from different builders. All Zodiac XLs are not identical. Indeed, each one is unique. There is no version control at Zenith, and changes are made willy nilly whenever they feel like it. I doubt there is any reliable way to track the changes that might appear in any given instance of the XL. This is not really a problem, but it does mean you will get differences from one plane to another. Of course it matters a great deal what engine you mount after finishing building the kit. My point is you shouldn't lose sleep over the different V speeds reported by different builders. These planes are all built by amateurs and mostly by people building their first plane. The rigging is less than optimum on many of them. While there are problems with the design this is true of all planes. The big problem - in flight structural failures - is fixed now. The little problems are easy to live with if you operate the plane in a conservative fashion and under weather conditions that are reasonably benign. I agree there is a problem in the rudder hinge area. I added bushings to mine after seeing wear in the first few hours of flight. The original design (at least the design as it appeared in my prints) had steel rubbing against nylon each time the rudder was moved. This isn't a good thing. Adding bushings so the steel is rubbing against a hard and lubricated bushing seems to work a lot better. I have nylon stops on the upward movement of the flaps. They are easy to see from the top of the wing. Each flap has a couple of pieces of nylon (1/8" sheet?) stuffed between the skin layers and riveted in place. The nylon sticks out perhaps 1/4 inch from the top skin and the flap presses against the stops. It is part of my normal preflight inspection to try to wiggle the flaps. If they move at all I check to make sure they are fully up. If they still move (they haven't yet in my case) I would not fly the plane. I do not know if the plane has been fully tested for flutter and other bad juju since the mod was installed. This is a question for Zenith. I am comfortable with the fact that history has shown the mod to be effective. All the other possible tests only hope to predict the good outcome we actually see now. For what its worth I consider my XL to be as safe as you might expect from any home built airplane. It has limitations, but they are not particularly bad ones. I only fly in nice weather, and consider the XL to be a fair weather plane. I would prefer to have a heavier and more powerful plane but my lack of a medical certificate currently limits me to light-sport designs. The XL is a reasonable example of the high end of these planes. If the rules for medical certificates change in the USA it is likely I will trade up to something bigger, heavier, and more expensive to operate. Depending on the change I will probable go to the upper limit of planes I can legally fly. For other people who treasure inexpensive flying with reasonable cross country capability in good weather I am comfortable recommending the XL as a possible choice. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA USA On 5/25/2013 9:07 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > > So I read all 40 pages thoroughly, and much of it does make sense. It appears to be a series of compounding issues that simply escalated an already borderline wing design. > > My question is this... Does anyone know if the COMPLETE Bravo mods were tested for flutter, strength etc? The FAA reccomended that they (Zenith) run through further testing for structure and flutter. > > Here's where I stand.... > > I own a 601XL-B that climbs like a rocket, and cruises 100-110kts happily, and the aircraft seems to perform great. HOWEVER, this IS my first Homebuilt, and I didn't buy it. I am highly mechanically enclined, so I know mechanics and the the basic engineering behind it all. > > My searches turned up very little, both on the net, and on here. For example, my V-Speeds are as follows... > > Vso- 44kts > Vs - 51kts > Va- 85kts > Vno- 113kts > VNE - 140kts > VX - 58kts > VY - 60kts > > I've found many MANY different versions of the numbers, and that concerns me. After reading the FAA report, Va should be 80-82kts, Vno 103kts or lower. The VNE seemed to be the most consistent at 140kts (16mph) > > The rudder upper bolts seem to wear and get play In them, there is flap stops, which I have never seen on a single zodiac yet, and haven't any idea what they look like. There are just so many variables..... > > Is there anything that anyone can say to help ease my mind? What does the general concensus say about this airplane, both before and after the Bravo Mod? How sloppy do the cables need to get to become a hazard? My bottom line is that I am DEEPLY in love with flying the airplane, it's performance and slickness! It's a sexy looking airplane, and I get stopped for photo ops everywhere I go. It's amazing. The performance is unreal! > > BUT, and a BIG BIG BUT here..... > > How safe is this airplane? I have a G-Meter so I can monitor so that I'm not stressing the airframe. I don't jerk the controls, I'm smooth with them. I don't push the airplane or "hot dog" it. I just fly it like I would a 152. I can see how one would get in trouble quick though, because it IS so much fun to fly! > > But at the end of the day, can I feel safe? Will it truthfully try to kill me? I've got three little ones that rely on me. Two 4 year old daughters and a 7 week old baby boy. > > I see tons of videos from Europe with guys flying these 601's XL's and HD's with the same power plant as me, same set up, and they seem just fine. They have a blast it seems! > > Chad..... Fighting to put my mind to rest...... > Or sell this and buy a 152! Lol. At least I know they don't break-up in flight. > > Thanks in advance! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401365#401365> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 26, 2013
Barry, Bryan: Those airspeeds are what was posted via the AMD revised POH in 2009. In KTS. Do the numbers seem wrong? That's what they posted, and what comes up when searched anywhere. As for the BRS, I don't have one, and I'd think one would be $10,000 or more to install here in Canada. Not that my life isn't worth it, but with the other expenses involved in purchasing the plane, there isn't any money left over. Lol. The consensus that I seem to be getting is that since the Bravo mods, there haven't been any failures related to structure. I'd be interested to know if that IS in FACT the case. I haven't read anywhere that a B has even crashed. I could be wrong. Like I mentioned, I think based on all the research I've read/talked about really came down to a multitude of compounding factors likely beginning with a less then capable main spar wing structure. Compound this with incorrect airspeeds, lively spirited pilotage, and balance issues, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Many people swear that it was stricktly a flutter issue. That WOULD make sense, since in a lot of cases the airplanes were in level flight, no unusual attitudes then just suddenly without warning broke up. I know that once flutter begins, it's only a few seconds before its all over. I've seen it with model airplanes, and from when flutter begins, the failure is almost immediate. My airplane has the counter balances. I just hope and pray the airplane is A-Ok. I got a pretty decent deal I believe, and probably because the reputation brought down her value. Maybe? Maybe not..... Thanks! Chad. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401394#401394 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2013
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have
questions...
From: Barry Benson <benson.barry(at)gmail.com>
http://www.newplane.com/amd_downloads/MASTER_AMD_POH_601_650_Nov-09_at_1320lbs.pdfhas the AMD pilot operating manual. This is what I have used for all numbers. Hope this helps, Barry On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 6:04 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Barry, Bryan: > > Those airspeeds are what was posted via the AMD revised POH in 2009. In > KTS. Do the numbers seem wrong? That's what they posted, and what comes up > when searched anywhere. > > As for the BRS, I don't have one, and I'd think one would be $10,000 or > more to install here in Canada. Not that my life isn't worth it, but with > the other expenses involved in purchasing the plane, there isn't any money > left over. Lol. > > The consensus that I seem to be getting is that since the Bravo mods, > there haven't been any failures related to structure. I'd be interested to > know if that IS in FACT the case. I haven't read anywhere that a B has even > crashed. I could be wrong. Like I mentioned, I think based on all the > research I've read/talked about really came down to a multitude of > compounding factors likely beginning with a less then capable main spar > wing structure. Compound this with incorrect airspeeds, lively spirited > pilotage, and balance issues, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Many > people swear that it was stricktly a flutter issue. That WOULD make sense, > since in a lot of cases the airplanes were in level flight, no unusual > attitudes then just suddenly without warning broke up. I know that once > flutter begins, it's only a few seconds before its all over. I've seen it > with model airplanes, and from when flutter begins, the failure is almost > immediate. My airplane has the counter balances.! > I just hope and pray the airplane is A-Ok. I got a pretty decent deal I > believe, and probably because the reputation brought down her value. Maybe? > Maybe not..... > > Thanks! > > Chad. > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401394#401394 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: May 26, 2013
Barry; Thanks! That's the one I've based my numbers off. Mine are slightly off. Vc should be called VNO. But whatever. So 108kts Vno I'll edit my numbers. Thanks! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401397#401397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have
questions... Guys, Don't forget the AMD performance numbers are based on a Continental engine which weighs about a hundred pounds more than a Rotax or Jabiru. I suspect you will find the cruise speed for the Continental is around 100, Rotax around 110, and Jabiru around 120 - all in KIAS. I personally don't have a ballistic 'chute and don't want one. While they have an average record of actually helping they can also kill you. I know of at least one case where the plane was on fire, the pilot pulled the big chute and all aboard roasted before reaching the ground. Paul On 5/26/2013 5:59 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Barry; > > Thanks! That's the one I've based my numbers off. Mine are slightly off. > > Vc should be called VNO. But whatever. So 108kts Vno > > I'll edit my numbers. > > Thanks! > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401397#401397 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: G - Loads
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 27, 2013
After further research I find that the G load limits of most aircraft do decrease with flap deployment, but that doesn't make the use of flaps during landing a bad idea under most circumstances. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. On May 27, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Jeff wrote: > > When the flaps go down, the G load limit goes down on every airplane that I've ever flown,,,and that's a bunch of airplanes. > > J. Webb > ATP,CFI,CFII,MEI, General Aviation Enthusiast! > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 27, 2013, at 2:59 PM, Bryan Martin wrote: > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: G - Loads
My understanding is full flaps should be used on landings unless the weather conditions include high and or gusty winds. In that case many planes should be landed with no flaps. The question of how high is high can be answered by the stall speed of the plane in question. I can't give a formula for this decision, but higher stall speed means higher immunity to gusty air situations. This does relate directly with wing loading. I just read someplace that even airliners with their incredibly high wing loading and stall speeds will not fly if the winds are over 50 knots. (Just as an approximation: Light Sport Airplanes like the CH601XL have wing loading around 10 pounds per square foot; most general aviation planes with reciprocating engines have wing loading from 15 to perhaps 25 or 30 p/sf; jet fighters typically run around 50 p/sf; jet airliners usually have upward of 100 p/sf.) Paul Camas, WA On 5/27/2013 4:25 PM, Bryan Martin wrote: > > After further research I find that the G load limits of most aircraft do decrease with flap deployment, but that doesn't make the use of flaps during landing a bad idea under most circumstances. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2013
From: "GERALD A. APPLEFELD" <jerryvmd(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Notice to all
Warning to any one on the list using AnyWhereMap as their GPS. I have used their products for over 15 years and always had good service. They have been good supporters of EAA and exhibit every year. Their website appears to have been shut down and their phone hangs up when I make a call. EAA has not heard from them about exhibiting this year. So we may not be able to get updates for their GPS products including their newer IPAD and Android based products. Caution to anyone before buying!!!! Hopefully this is temporary but I have not been able to get good tech support for months. Probably out of business. Too bad, I really liked their system. Let me know if anyone knows anything different. Jerry 601HD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lee Steensland" <zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
Subject: Inspiration
Date: May 29, 2013
Folks, I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a fresh injection of motivation. I haven't worked on it in about a year now and don't want to give up on it. What keeps you building? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspiration
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: May 29, 2013
Lee, Even before I started building, I made up my mind that my 601XL would be co mpleted and fly. Flying that airplane was my motivation. I worked on it e very day I wasn't traveling to make a living. It took two and a half years , start to finish. It did fly; but unfortunately, age and deteriorating ph ysical condition over took me and I was never able to fly it. Don't let th at happen to you. Get after it !!! Jay -----Original Message----- From: Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net> Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 5:17 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Inspiration Folks, I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a fres h injection of motivation. I haven=99t worked on it in about a year now and don=99t want to give up on it. What keeps you building? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Inspiration
Lee, It sounds like the long term goal of having an airplane to fly isn't working for you, so perhaps you should take a different point of view. You can look at the daily grind as a goal in itself. If you work on your plane every day for at least a little while - perhaps 1/2 hour to 1 hour - you will eventually get it done. So maybe that should be your goal - to work on it every day. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA XL signed out of phase I last fall. On 5/29/2013 3:15 PM, Lee Steensland wrote: > > Folks, > > I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a > fresh injection of motivation. I haven't worked on it in about a year > now and don't want to give up on it. > > What keeps you building? > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2013
Subject: Re: Inspiration
From: Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com>
I happened on to a fellow in Church that I used to work with. He is disabled and he was bored to tears. He, also, has a love for airplanes. I was near the canopy stage and final fitting of the parts, then paint. He bugged me about every day..."We gonna work on it tonight?" ...and I would say"Sure!". Little by little we became best friends and with his extra eyes and another hand, we finished it just in time for the great FAA to tell us we had to disassemble and make the mods for the 'B' revision...and it was painted. We tore it apart and transported it back to my work shop and took a year extra to finish the mods and reassemble at the airport. It flew on August 21, 2012. Keep pluggin' away. Find a friend with a mutual love and a willingness to help. You'll get there!!! Rick Beckman On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Lee Steensland wrote: > Folks,**** > > ** ** > > I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a > fresh injection of motivation. I haven=92t worked on it in about a year now > and don=92t want to give up on it.**** > > ** ** > > What keeps you building?**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 05/29/13
From: dwbbrown(at)gmail.com
Date: May 30, 2013
Lee It took me 3years and 4 months to build my 601XLB, and it has been flying for almost 5 years. From Etna Arkansas it has been to Oshkosh 3 times, it has been to Quartz Creek Alaska once, I have received my CFI-S in it. I have made many long cross countries to visit relatives, closing in on 100 Young Eagle flights, fly it a least a couple times a month just for fun. It now has over 500 hrs on it. It was difficult to make time to work about 10 hrs a week on for those 3 yrs 4 months before I retired but it has all been worth it. Just keep up the work. If you get a little burned out, take a little break, get involved in a local EAA chapter and then get back on it David N601EX Jab 3300 > > I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a fresh > injection of motivation. I haven't worked on it in about a year now and > don't want to give up on it. > > > What keeps you ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Inspiration
Date: May 30, 2013
Lee, I appreciate that you know you need motivation. I was challenged occasionally when I looked too closely at the larger picture. I'd suggest refocus to smaller items you can complete, one by one. If you need items to complete your project, instruments, engine, lights etc., perhaps you could state where you are in the game and let this group help you find or obtain the things you need. I'm sure there's a project that has extra parts or tools that can be had for less than new too. Find the best time to work when it's your time and try to keep work spurts at or under 3 hours. Don't work when you're exhausted. Plan your progress for short regular sessions. Don't be afraid to ask for help and advice on your project. Most of us wouldn't be flying if we did it without help. Flying is the best reward out there, but the immediate reward must be measured against the progress that you get by being steady about completion. Don't get down if you have a few re-do's and consider making the parts yourself if you're doing a kit. I seriously enjoyed making the parts, but found completion of assembly, actually pulling rivets, sometimes daunting. I was 5-1/2 years building and flew it for 7 years and still recall the build process as a best experience. Flying was a superb experience too. Hang in there as it's worth it in the end, emotionally and financially. Larry McFarland www.macsmachine.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Steensland Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:16 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Inspiration Folks, I need some inspiration. I have a work in progress 601xlb and I need a fresh injection of motivation. I haven't worked on it in about a year now and don't want to give up on it. What keeps you building? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Scheibinger" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Banquet for 2013
Date: Jun 12, 2013
Hi Everyone! Here is an update on the festivities for the "Zeniths to Oshkosh" builders banquet and aircraft parking for the 2013 Oshkosh EAA Convention. The Banquet There has been a big change for this year's Zenith Builders Banquet. We outgrew our previous locations so we moved it this year to the Elks Lodge in Oshkosh. We have very comfortable seating for over 250 people, our own private bar, and award winning food. The banquet will be held on Thursday, August 1st. The bar will open at 5:30 and dinner starts at 7:30. The price of the ticket has been reduced from years past to $18 per person. On the menu this year will be the Elks Lodge specialty, Pineapple Rum Glazed Ham and Broasted Chicken with all the trimmings. There will be a very special surprise dessert so make sure you bring your camera, and don't forget the great door prizes! Pre-convention Banquet Tickets Available The banquet will be held at the Elks Lodge, 175 Fernau Ave, Oshkosh, WI. The Lodge is very easy to find. There will be maps and tickets available at the Zenith display just like in previous years. If you would like your tickets sent to you along with the map, there are two ways to receive your tickets. You can mail a check for $18 per person to Joe Scheibinger, Zenith Banquet, 2809 Scenic Drive, Oshkosh, WI 54904, or you can use PayPal and send the money to backstagelive(at)gmail.com. Your tickets will be sent in the mail. Buying advance tickets helps the Zenith staff save time and sell airplanes, and it also gives us a better way to estimate the number of people attending. EAA Zenith Showplane Parking EAA has confirmed the Zenith showplane parking will be just north of the Homebuilders center on the flight line in its usual place. Place a sign in your window indicating "HOMEBUILT PARKING" and then one with "ZENITH". When they get near the parking area flagmen will help get you to the location requested. Once your aircraft is parked, EAA's policy is no engine operations in the parking area and the aircraft will need to be pushed to the east of the safety line for engine start. So if you are anticipating demonstrating or flying any of the aircraft during the convention, EAA has a new commercial demo ride operation parking area along taxiway p1 about 5 rows to the north of the Zenith parking row. Accommodations Here is something new for 2013! The Oshkosh Elks Lodge has a very large parking area. they are offering motor home and trailer parking for $10 per night for anyone coming to the banquet before coming to the EAA. If you would like to park your camping vehicle at the Elks for any number of nights, please call me at 920-237-1450 to make reservations. Some electrical spots are available for a slightly higher rate on a first come basis. What's Needed? We could use some volunteers for the event. We will need 2 volunteers to come to the banquet early and help make sure everything is working smoothly, and to work the registration table. If possible, Also, I would like to have volunteers who are knowledgeable with the Zenith Company to escort invited EAA dignitaries. Contact Information Seeing that I live in Oshkosh, I would be more than happy to help you with anything you need to make your stay in Oshkosh the best ever. If you need any more information on the banquet, camping, special foods, etc, please call me directly at 920-237-1450 or E-mail me at backstagelive(at)gmail.com. Joe Scheibinger 2809 Scenic Drive Oshkosh, WI 54904 920-237-1450 backstagelive(at)gmail.com Facebook: Joe Scheibinger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2013
From: nick pace <asknickp(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Form Blocks
Does anyone have a file for the form blocks to the elevator and stabilizer in an AutoCAD? I checked the archives and searched the internet but no luck. Thanks, "THIS is the golden age of aviation" A Fellow Aviator Nick Pace Harpers Ferry WV Building a 601XL #5607 Corvair Powered {Rudder almost done} ----- Original Message ----- From: Zenith601-List Digest Server <zenith601-list(at)matronics.com> Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 3:00 AM Subject: Zenith601-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/14/13 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-06-14&Archive=Zenith601 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-06-14&Archive=Zenith601 =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/14/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Form Blocks
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2013
Nick, I have AutoCAD 2000. If that format is usable for you and you can give me a couple of days, I will make AutoCAD drawings from the Zenith drawing set. Just let me know. I am trusting that will be OK with Zenith. Jay -----Original Message----- From: nick pace <asknickp(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 10:12 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Form Blocks Does anyone have a file for the form blocks to the elevator and stabilizer in an AutoCAD? I checked the archives and searched the internet but no luck. Thanks, "THIS is the golden age of aviation" A Fellow Aviator Nick Pace Harpers Ferry WV Building a 601XL #5607 Corvair Powered {Rudder almost done} ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2013
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: CG
Just got back from the airport measuring and weighing ( 2 ) Zodiac 601's. I am aware that the datum can be anywhere you want it. I used to put them at the tip of the spinner so all the figures would be positive. You would still have to subtract or add from their datum line to get one different from theirs as well as the distance to the forward limit would also change. If you use the leading edge of the wing near the fuselage you must subtract roughly 35mm from the 270mm forward limit so the new forward limit should be 235mm aft of your datum. The forward sweep makes that much difference ( about 1 3/8" ). This could easily put you out of the rear limit with light fuel and a heavy passenger. Your fuel burn makes the CG go aft. Most Jabiru engined 601's will have to takeoff with reduced fuel to stay under gross weight with a passenger. Some of them will have to land with at least 6 to 12 gallons on board depending on the weight of pilot and passenger to keep from going aft of the rear limit depending on where their CG is located. By the way we have ( 5 ) 601's in this area and the 3 we compared all have the left wheel 5/16" to 3/8" further forward than the right. I would be willing to bet that if you pop a chalk line on the floor from the fourth nose rib out on the wings and measure to the main wheel axles that there would be a little bit of difference - not that it matters : ) Never did get the answer to my question which was where can I find Zenith's latest info on location of the datum line. Never mind I found it. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/xl-w&b-2-page.pdf Thanks to all who answered. Bobby ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CG
From: Bob Emery <bobemery51(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2013
Speaking of c of g with the 601/Jabiru 3300 Mine moves aft as mentioned with passenger and reducing fuel. I definately feel horizontal sensitivity increase if I have a heavy passenger as fuel burns off. Does the 650 have a mount that moves the engine further forward? I heard that the later mount for Rotax moved it further forward, I am wondering if the Jab fw mount did the same? Would seem to be a good idea, can anyone confirm this? (Now 140 hrs going great- Perth, West Australia). Bob Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airplane Cover for an Outdoor Bird?
From: "Fderfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2013
Who do we like for a 601XL cover for a bird that is outside... in the Florida Keys? (Main environmental problem is sunshine/UV!) Kennon has a nice cover, but I'd like to shop around. Jim at planecover.com says he has a pattern for a "Zenith 601", but he (and I) don't know if that will fit a 601-XL. So, two questions: 1. Have you purchased a nice fitting cover from a company and what is that company name? 2. Should there be any difference in the canopy / fuselage size between a classic 601 and a 601-XL? (As I remember it, the difference is in the wing length/shape) Thanks! Frank Derfler Islamorada, FL -------- Flying in the Florida Keys Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403649#403649 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Special Review Team final report.... Have questions...
From: "Fderfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2013
I just wanted to chime in and say that I completely agree with Paul who said, "The biggest limitation for me is the light wing loading when combined with unstable air." These light sport aircraft weigh less than 800-900 pounds dry. The tail of a white puffy cloud can give you an unexpected slap in the rudder that makes you say, "Whoa"! This ain't no Cherokee. Also, it is my personal opinion that the lower rudder bearing is another problem waiting to sneak up on folks. Look for rudder play (up and down) on every pre-flight. We put an Oilite impregnated bearing on my airplane and there is NO up and down rudder movement. I'm coming up on 450 flying hours on my airplane and I've loved every hour. (Well, there was that one time just north of Naples... but that's another story...) Frank Derfler Islamorada, FL -------- Flying in the Florida Keys Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403651#403651 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Datum Line
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2013
Bobby, Here is a link to the XL area of the zbuilder site. The worksheet says the plumb line is 1790mm from center line. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/xl-w&b-2-page.pdf -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing CH 601 XLB N601LT - Flying http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404341#404341 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Datum Line
Date: Jul 10, 2013
Maybe I just missed it, but does anybody know if there's a separate worksheet for taildraggers? Paul Rodriguez ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lendon<mailto:ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 8:25 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Datum Line > Bobby, Here is a link to the XL area of the zbuilder site. The worksheet says the plumb line is 1790mm from center line. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/xl-w&b-2-page.pdf thair.com/zodiac/xl/data/xl-w&b-2-page.pdf> -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing CH 601 XLB N601LT - Flying http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon> Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon onLendon> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404341#404341 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404341#404341> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jul 26, 2013
Need some help guys. I'm getting VERY high CO readings in the cockpit. Especially in slow flight. Rotax 912ULS powered. I get CO entering even at 110kts. Any ideas? I plugged off my cabin heat and It made no difference. Exhaust re-sealed at the joints. Noticed the CO increased when I re-sealed the two stacks out of the main muffler. I'm lost..... -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405351#405351 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_166.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_131.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jul 26, 2013
Here is the stacks. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405352#405352 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_301.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2013
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
Actually, I had a Jabiru 3300 and had the same problem. Even with everything well sealed in the engine area, it was a problem. I found all the CO was coming back through the tail. Putting a CO monitor in back of the seats produced off the scale numbers. I was going to seal all the gaps around the tail, there is a big opening around the elevator where I believe most of it comes in through. I have switched engines to a Honda/Viking and the problem has gone away. I expect it is 90% because the Honda burns so much cleaner that the CO blown by the tail is almost non existent compared to a Jabiru. Before this is taken as an endorsement of the Honda/Viking, note that I had to do a lot of modification to that installation. On 07/26/2013 12:36 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Need some help guys. I'm getting VERY high CO readings in the cockpit. Especially in slow flight. Rotax 912ULS powered. I get CO entering even at 110kts. Any ideas? I plugged off my cabin heat and It made no difference. Exhaust re-sealed at the joints. Noticed the CO increased when I re-sealed the two stacks out of the main muffler. I'm lost..... > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405351#405351 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_166.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_131.jpg > > -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel(at)nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
Date: Jul 26, 2013
You might consider adding a pair of pipe extensions (I assume you have two exhaust pipes) set to release the exhaust somewhat lower, and more aft, just to see if it helps. Otherwise, your choices would be limited to finding and sealing all possible leaks, or wind-pressurizing the cockpit and blowing everything aft. Either way, until you solve it, keep your flights short. CO2 sneaks up on you. Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Hubelbank<mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B > Actually, I had a Jabiru 3300 and had the same problem. Even with everything well sealed in the engine area, it was a problem. I found all the CO was coming back through the tail. Putting a CO monitor in back of the seats produced off the scale numbers. I was going to seal all the gaps around the tail, there is a big opening around the elevator where I believe most of it comes in through. I have switched engines to a Honda/Viking and the problem has gone away. I expect it is 90% because the Honda burns so much cleaner that the CO blown by the tail is almost non existent compared to a Jabiru. Before this is taken as an endorsement of the Honda/Viking, note that I had to do a lot of modification to that installation. On 07/26/2013 12:36 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > > Need some help guys. I'm getting VERY high CO readings in the cockpit. Especially in slow flight. Rotax 912ULS powered. I get CO entering even at 110kts. Any ideas? I plugged off my cabin heat and It made no difference. Exhaust re-sealed at the joints. Noticed the CO increased when I re-sealed the two stacks out of the main muffler. I'm lost..... > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405351#405351 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405351#405351> > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_166.jpg com//files/image_166.jpg> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_131.jpg com//files/image_131.jpg> > > > > > > > > > -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel(at)nemon.com 978-443-3955 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jul 26, 2013
Here is where the pipes sit. You think they need to be further back and down? Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405368#405368 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_211.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2013
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: CO
I should have said the cockpit has positive pressure instead of neg. It has less positive pressure with the outside air vents closed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2013
From: xl <xl(at)prosody.org>
Subject: 2013 Abbotsford BC Airshow
I've flown in from KBFI for some 10 years. The Snowbirds are awesome. http://www.abbotsfordairshow.com/ The Abbotsford Flying Club invites you to fly-in or drive-in and camp August 9th through 11th for the 2013 Abbotsford International Airshow. http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/2013-0729-Abbotsford-airshow-FlyIn-Info-3a.pdf Joe Edwards CH601XLB @ BFI, 820 hours Jabiru 3300A, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 31, 2013
I had CO when I tore some weatherstripping out from under the canopy rails. Replacing that cured it. Pat Hoyt N63PZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405698#405698 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jul 31, 2013
Just put new weather stripping in. Departing on a flight now. Report back.... Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405700#405700 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO in the cockpit of a Zodiac 601XL-B
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jul 31, 2013
Flight report.... So I also installed a Snap Vent (3.25") right above the latch mechanism. Gobs of air fill the cockpit. I still seem to smell engine exhaust, but the CO card stayed orange, not even hesitating to change color. That confuses me. With all the vents closed, the usual vacuum suction at the canopy base is gone. I think because the canopy causes the cockpit to be low pressure, it tries to suck air into the plane to try to equalize the cabin pressure. Even with the vents closed, the CO never got into changing color. Yet I could still smell exhaust. Either way, with this new vent, it vacates the cockpit air within seconds, so even if I had high CO, I could just flush with the snap vent and start over. I'm ok with it now since it didn't register any CO. I doubled the firewall sealing that was there previously. Hoping that next I can figure out a bellow for the nose wheel rods. CO DEFINITELY comes in there. Other then that, the only issue I had today was that my fancy Chinese made hole saw left the hole 1/16" too large, so the snap vent flops around in the hole. Now to figure out that "issue" next. Great plane though! Just awesome! I flew with a 701 with an 80hp Rotax a few weeks back, and it does 70mph cruise. Slowed the Zodiac down to that speed @ 3500rpm and wow, that's really slow. Such a HUGE speed difference once you feel it in person. I was shocked. Random thought off track..... Sorry. Lol. -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405750#405750 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Scheibinger" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith Banquet
Date: Aug 05, 2013
2013 EAA, Another Great Year for Zenith A huge thank you to everyone that came to the Zenith banquet at EAA this year! We had 173 builders from all over the world attend. If you would like to see pictures of the event and pictures of the Zenith display, you can Facebook me at "Joe Scheibinger", go to my pictures, and click on EAA Convention 2013. We will be having the banquet for 2014 in the same location, the Oshkosh Elks Lodge. They supply great food, a very large and very clean facility that can handle over 350 people, with ample parking. Besides the door prizes provided by aviation companies, some of the Zenith builders purchased gun raffle tickets from the Elks Lodge from a fundraiser that was going on in the other room. So many builders bought tickets that the Elks decided to hold the drawing during our banquet. 2 lucky Zenith builders won guns valued at $400 each! One of the exciting thing being developed for 2014 will be the construction of a Zenith airplane in 7 days during the convention. With that in mind, I would like to get some suggestions from you as to how we can make the banquet better and raise more awareness for the Zenith company on the EAA grounds. I would like to find out how many people would like to bring their planes to Oshkosh in 2014 and plan a mass arrival. The New Holstein airport features concrete runways, a large parking area, and is only about 12 miles from Oshkosh from the East. We would need volunteers with experience in loose formation flight to help organize and give safe instruction. I can supply the set up work with the EAA. It would be fun to see 30 or 40 or more Zeniths on the field like we had 2 years ago, and a mass arrival adds to the fun and excitement, and it adds great promotional value to the Zenith brand. If you are interested, or you have suggestions for 2014, please E-mail me at backstagelive(at)gmail.com. I will share all ideas with Sebastien. 2014 is going to be a great year again for Zenith at EAA. Thanks again everyone for your help. Joe Scheibinger in Oshkosh ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith Banquet
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2013
Joe, Thanks for all your efforts in putting together the Zenith Banquet. This was the first time I attended and it was fun to put faces on some of the people I've met on this discussion group and others. One suggestion --- for the main program of the evening, rather than hearing just from folks with commercial interests, it would be great to put something together showcasing the flying adventures of actual builders. Those of us who are still building need to see what awaits them when they finish their airplanes and actually take to the air. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406633#406633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2013
Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit without associated exhaust odor. Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around the joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most of that goes out the bottom of the cowl. Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or shutters, poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings in the aft fuselage. Wish I could be more helpful. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2013
I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within safe limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able to get the CHT's under control. I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon. For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973 Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: CO
I have heard many people suggest the most likely entry point for carbon monoxide in any plane is the tail cone. Indeed we lost one of our pilots to what is suspected to be CO poisoning last year. He had a wheels up landing in his Bonanza and was ferrying it back for repairs when he suddenly lost control and crashed a half mile from the destination. The wheels up landing knocked off the tail cone. On my Zodiac I have two "Eye-ball" vents for outside air mounted on the instrument panel. I can feel air blowing out the rear area between the canopy and side of the fuselage in normal flight. I firmly believe this reduces the chances of getting CO into the cabin because of the positive pressure. Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL in phase II On 8/13/2013 10:57 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Not to be picky, but CO has no odor. You might still be getting CO in the cockpit without associated exhaust odor. > > Every installation is going to be a little different. The vast majority of CO will be going out the stacks so I'd be looking for fuselage openings in areas of low pressure downwind from them. I wouldn't think the small leaks around the joints of the exhaust system would account for much and in any case, most of that goes out the bottom of the cowl. > > Obvious things like holes in the firewall, leaks around steering rod boots or shutters, poor seal between the wrap around cowl and the firewall are all possibilities for some leakage. Others have reported CO coming in thru openings in the aft fuselage. > > Wish I could be more helpful. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406637#406637 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: CHT Disparity-Jabiru 3300
Hi Tim, I believe the Jabiru specifications are based on the spark plug sensors. My 3300 is running just fine after about 50 hours. It wanted to overheat at first but I reduced throttle to keep from getting it too hot. Probably my first 10 or 15 flight hours were dedicated to making small changes in the cooling air flow and test flying. I have Dynon EMS with sensors on each cylinder and exhaust to monitor the temps. One anecdotal experience I had was a big mouth engineer on one of the Jabiru lists who claimed all Jabirus had evidence of overheating on the cylinder bottoms. I sent him photographs of mine, and after avoiding response he admitted my engine looked just fine with no suggestion it had ever been overheated. When you let the cylinders get hot (not necessarily overheated, but warmer than is good) the cylinder head bolts tend to get a bit loose. You should check them regularly after first running your engine. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA On 8/13/2013 11:12 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > I attended a forum at Oshkosh where a fellow discussed his research on cooling a Jabiru 3300. He had compared the spark plug washer type CHT sensors to ones directly in the head and showed that they pretty consistently indicated CHT's about 70 cooler than actual temperatures! If this is the case, Jab operators could be cooking their engines while thinking that their CHT's were within safe limits. He ended up designing a cooling baffling system that is nothing like what comes from the factory and claimed that was the only way he was able to get the CHT's under control. > > I wonder what the rest of you Jabiru 3300 operators have to say about this? I'm not flying mine yet but will be getting ready to hang it soon. > > For a summary on the fellow who made the presentation check out http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1973 > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406638#406638 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2013
Paul, Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone, have you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe a NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in the bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things better or worse. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: CO
Hi Tim, I don't think you need to do anything to pressurize the tail cone so long as you have air pressure entering the cabin as I described. The FWF kit from Pete has ports on the cowl for this purpose. You just need to come up with a vent structure for the cabin. I used the 2 inch eyeball type vents ( from Spruce?), and they work just fine. I just don't feel comfortable ever closing them all the way. When it is cool out I prefer to redirect them so the don't blow on me or my passenger (on the rare occasion I have a passenger). About the other Jab questions all I can say is for my money Pete is the man. I would follow his advice. Paul On 8/13/2013 11:31 AM, Tim Juhl wrote: > > Paul, > Since it is impractical to try to seal off all the openings in the tail cone, have you given any thought to a practical way to pressurize that area? Maybe a NACA scoop on the side or the like? I know of fellows who have put holes in the bulkhead behind the baggage shelf but I'm not sure if that would make things better or worse. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406643#406643 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2013
I don't have a CO problem but last winter it was getting difficult to stay warm. That's when I noticed a positive air flow from the rear fuselage. To combat that I sealed the canopy with Great Stuff foam along the IP and sticky backed weatherstrip foam along the canopy rails and flashing at the rear of the XL canopy. That helped but what really got the air flowing out the rear was using that same sticky backed weatherstrip around the inspection access panel on the bottom of the fuselage. Also used aluminum tape over the hinge on that panel. During the winter the 2" eyeball vents are totally blocked off and that keeps it toasty in even subzero fahrenheit temps. -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing CH 601 XLB N601LT - Flying http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406671#406671 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Performance take off and landings.
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2013
Anyone on here with a Rotax powered 601XL-B? What is the shortest runway you've used, and how did it work out? Grass of course. I want to attempt a 1800' runway with 75' obstacles at Either end. I KNOW i CAN land, but th take off has me concerned. Feedback? Thanks! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406813#406813 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
Hi Chad, I was thinking of just saying "Don't worry", but I decided that was an irresponsible answer to your question. A better answer is to suggest you take a look at the FAA manual on flight test - AC90-89A. It has lots of information you need for flying your new experimental airplane. One of the first things it covers is the runway requirements based on specifics of your plane design. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL - signed out of phase I last year. On 8/15/2013 5:24 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Anyone on here with a Rotax powered 601XL-B? What is the shortest runway you've used, and how did it work out? Grass of course. I want to attempt a 1800' runway with 75' obstacles at Either end. I KNOW i CAN land, but th take off has me concerned. > > Feedback? > > Thanks! > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406813#406813 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2013
Paul; Thanks for the reply. It's not the first flight. I've got 30 plus hours on type, some on grass and some on long paved runways. A friend of mine has a 1800' strip I want to go into on the weekend. I know I can get it in, just not sure if I can "get it up"..... Lol. I'm going to try to head to a grass field that is 2200' long and try some short/soft field stuff there. See what the best I can get out of it with full fuel would be. I find that the traditional back elevator on the roll slows it down, from induced drag. If I lower the nose on the roll, it accelerates better. Ill test and report back. I want to know 110% for CERTAIN I can get back out safely. That's all. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406823#406823 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
Hi Chad, I have a Jabiru 3300, so I have considerably more power than your Rotax. Still, my Zodiac gets airborne very quickly. I've never measured the actual ground roll, but i would guess it is 300 or 400 feet. I use 1/2 flaps for takeoff as a normal routine. That gets the plane airborne quickly without getting it flying before the controls work well - the result if I take off with full flaps. The Zodiac will take off with no flaps but requires considerably more runway in that configuration. Your 1800 foot runway should be enough to take off and land a couple of times before reaching the end. That assumes the grass is dry. If it is wet I would worry about the take off distance. Good luck, Paul On 8/15/2013 7:02 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Paul; > > Thanks for the reply. It's not the first flight. I've got 30 plus hours on type, some on grass and some on long paved runways. A friend of mine has a 1800' strip I want to go into on the weekend. I know I can get it in, just not sure if I can "get it up"..... Lol. > > I'm going to try to head to a grass field that is 2200' long and try some short/soft field stuff there. See what the best I can get out of it with full fuel would be. I find that the traditional back elevator on the roll slows it down, from induced drag. If I lower the nose on the roll, it accelerates better. Ill test and report back. I want to know 110% for CERTAIN I can get back out safely. That's all. > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406823#406823 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2013
Chad, Play special attention to "Density Altitude". What are the performance figures that you compiled for your POH? Early morning (sun rise) take-off/landings are far safer! 10:00 am should be your cut-off time during the summer! Blue skys ahead, Mack -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406871#406871 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2013
Hey guys. I didn't create the POH. Bought this airplane from the original builder. I'd have to double check, but I believe at gross, the take off is around 800-1000' on grass over a 50. Landings I think are around 600'. Like I said, the runway is 1800-2000' but there is 75' obstacles at both ends, and a WICKED hump in the middle. The owner had landed his 206 there without issue apparently. That I can't see personally, but so he says. I'm going to another grass field to practice short/soft field stuff. Ill know for certain how much runway it'll take. I know I can get in and out just fine off this 2200' runway even mid day no flaps. After reading these messages, I realized I've never even used flaps on a single takeoff! Never had a call for them.... Does it reduced the take off roll by a lot? Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406881#406881 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
Hi Chad, As you move to higher performance planes you will get used to using flaps for takeoff - all the high performance planes require them. For example in a C-182 with 20 degrees of flaps and full power you can be airborne in perhaps 500 feet (not fully loaded) but without flaps you will wonder why after 2000 feet you are still on the ground. I flew a Tecnam Echo Super (Rotax 100 hp) that also called for flaps for every takeoff. It had a short takeoff ground roll and climbed nicely. Sadly, I never learned how to get it to come down. It floated forever and was a really long glider. From the normal specs it looks a lot like a Zodiac XL but the XL comes down a lot better. On my plane I have never measured the takeoff ground roll but it seems to just jump in the air with half flaps and even faster with full flaps. However, full flaps has it airborne at such a slow speed there is little control authority and it seems messy. Half flaps allows nice control as you leave the ground and climb over that obstacle at the end of the runway before removing the flaps. I rarely take off with no flaps - only when I forget to put them on. I would guess the ground roll is 2 or 3 times as long as with half flaps. That is still less than 1000 feet but why not get the wheels off the ground as quickly as reasonable? Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL - N773PM On 8/16/2013 2:17 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Hey guys. I didn't create the POH. Bought this airplane from the original builder. I'd have to double check, but I believe at gross, the take off is around 800-1000' on grass over a 50. Landings I think are around 600'. Like I said, the runway is 1800-2000' but there is 75' obstacles at both ends, and a WICKED hump in the middle. The owner had landed his 206 there without issue apparently. That I can't see personally, but so he says. I'm going to another grass field to practice short/soft field stuff. Ill know for certain how much runway it'll take. I know I can get in and out just fine off this 2200' runway even mid day no flaps. After reading these messages, I realized I've never even used flaps on a single takeoff! Never had a call for them.... > > Does it reduced the take off roll by a lot? > > Chad > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406881#406881 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "Tim Juhl" <timjuhl(at)frontier.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2013
are your 75 foot obstacles right at the end of the runway or set back a bit? Also, I would suggest using some elevator to take the weight off the nosewheel but you want to avoid nose high takeoff rolls due to the additional drag. Flaps will get you off the ground quicker but may reduce your rate of climb. Your idea of practicing on a longer strip is a good one. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Wing modifications done - back working on the fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406888#406888 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2013
Chad, 206's along with 182's are considered the workhorse aircraft in Idaho as they are good performers with above average load weights. Idaho's average airport elevation is approximately 4500 feet with the lowest elevations along the Snake River 735 feet @ Snake River Sea Plane Base (78U) @ Lewiston to 7920 feet @ Copper Basin (0U2) 12 miles SW of Mackay, Idaho. Cabin Creek (I08) is a popular 1750 X 40 turf airstrip 37 miles West of Salmon, Idaho along the River-of-No-Return (you know the river that Lewis and Clark couldn't navigate). It is an one way strip with a small dogleg - lower strip elevation is 4157 feet and upper elevation is 4289 feet. Land uphill and take off downhill. This summer, Idaho has been experiencing above average temperatures of 100+/- degrees - and right now the state is literately on fire! Now you know why it is a good practice to fly from sun-up to 10:00 am. Good idea to know your plane - XL's are good performers, but Get checked out before flying to difficult airports! Mack -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406901#406901 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2013
****** UPDATE!!!!!!! Here is the flight test today. I tried EVERY combination, from full flaps to half flaps to 10 degrees of flaps. Tried holding in some elevator, and in ALL these cases, it ADDED 15-20% longer run before airborne then no flaps at all! I landed at the fore mentioned field today, with 24 degrees C, 1100' density altitude. Weighing 1100lbs. Rotax 912S with the air box. All attempts were full throttle, brakes on, then release. Best I could muster by a long shot was without flaps. It accelerates like a monster, and I was off under 1000' just. If I used the flaps, I might have had trouble. Now, the prop is a warp drive pitched for cruise. It doesn't bite in well until I'm doing 20 knots or greater, then it takes off (again, without flaps). 1100lbs, 1100' density altitude. Configuration Landing: full flaps, 60kt approach. A low 60kts. A little power on final to pull it in flat and control the airspeed and decent. Landed 500-600' to fully stopped maximum braking. Configuration Take off: no flaps at all. Hold brakes, FULL POWER, and wait for max RPM. RELEASE BRAKE, holding just enough elevator to keep the nose wheel from digging in, keeps the plane clean for fast acceleration. Rotate as soon as the airplane is ready (58kts) then rotate into ground effect for maybe 2-3 seconds. CLIMB like a homesick angel. Saw 1100'/min. It cruises with this prop at between 100-110kts comfortably. Anyways, I'm finding my take-offs around the 1000-1400' range depending on loading. My gross is 1300lbs. I was 200lbs light. Not sure what'll happen with another 180-195lbs but guessing ill still have enough space. Might find out tomorrow. Cheers for now and thanks again, Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! I know my flight instructor said anything over 10 degrees flap on a lightly loaded Cessna 172M and it struggles like crazy to get off the ground. Odd...... Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406939#406939 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance take off and landings.
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2013
Chad, Thanks for the update. You might try setting the flaps even with (same deflection as) the ailerons and see how your bird performs on take-off. Some pilots start a ground roll without flaps - then roll them in once they have some speed built up. Have you thought about practicing on a longer runway without obstacles? Blue Skys ahead, Mack -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407516#407516 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 02, 2013
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13
Yes, it is going through Given that the traffic on the Zenith lists is very light these days, I suggest you change your subscription to regular email. The digest is good when there's a lot of traffic. Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 2 October 2013 12:36, pms wrote: > > I for one do not know who to reply to - how to reply using any of the > links listed below. It is no wonder that there are not messages. Day after > day I get an email saying 'o' message. I am not interested in reading the > lengthy message below with all it's instruction [s]. I was looking for a > forum to share 601 / Subaru info. I MIGHT poke around a little more to > see if I can make head or tail out of this - - but I think it is way > confusing. pete I don't even know if this is going to get tru to anyone. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13
Date: Oct 02, 2013
I have also noticed the traffic seemed to be very light. Everybody got it built already? Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa<mailto:carlossa52(at)gmail.com> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13 Yes, it is going through Given that the traffic on the Zenith lists is very light these days, I suggest you change your subscription to regular email. The digest is good when there's a lot of traffic. Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 2 October 2013 12:36, pms > wrote: > I for one do not know who to reply to - how to reply using any of the links listed below. It is no wonder that there are not messages. Day after day I get an email saying 'o' message. I am not interested in reading the lengthy message below with all it's instruction [s]. I was looking for a forum to share 601 / Subaru info. I MIGHT poke around a little more to see if I can make head or tail out of this - - but I think it is way confusing. pete I don't even know if this is going to get tru to anyone. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List m/Navigator?Zenith601-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 02, 2013
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13
Almost. Another 5 years or so... ;-) http://www.zenith.aero/profile/CarlosSa On 2 October 2013 18:32, wrote: > ** > I have also noticed the traffic seemed to be very light. Everybody got > it built already? > > Paul R > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Carlos Sa > *To:* zenith601-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:53 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - > 10/01/13 > > Yes, it is going through > > Given that the traffic on the Zenith lists is very light these days, I > suggest you change your subscription to regular email. > The digest is good when there's a lot of traffic. > > Cheers > > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > > > On 2 October 2013 12:36, pms wrote: > >> >> I for one do not know who to reply to - how to reply using any of the >> links listed below. It is no wonder that there are not messages. Day after >> day I get an email saying 'o' message. I am not interested in reading the >> lengthy message below with all it's instruction [s]. I was looking for a >> forum to share 601 / Subaru info. I MIGHT poke around a little more to >> see if I can make head or tail out of this - - but I think it is way >> confusing. pete I don't even know if this is going to get tru to anyone. >> > * > > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Climb question.... URGENT. HOPING FOR ANSWER BY 1200 Zulu!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Oct 02, 2013
Hello all. Quick question.... I changed the pitch of my prop for a cruise setting, so I lost about 200-300' min doing so at 1100lbs. At 1100lbs, (1300 is gross) I saw 1200-1300'/min at 1100lbs. With the pitch change i see between 600-1100'/min depending on the day. What impact would adding 200lbs to bring it to gross do you think? My concern is whether it will climb or not. It's a ROTAX 912ULS. IM flying gross tomorrow am from a 4000' runway. I'd LOVE some feedback on this. Hope I'm not getting myself in over my head at gross. Guess the only way to find out is try. ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED!!!!! Thanks! Chad Scriver ZODIAC 601XL-B Rotax 912ULS WARPDDRIVE 3 blade -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409732#409732 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Climb question.... URGENT. HOPING FOR ANSWER BY 1200
Zulu! Hi Chad, Of course you already know adding weight will reduce your climb rate. It will also increase your takeoff roll. I don't know how much the reduction in climb rate will be. Remember that lots of spam cans only climb at a few hundred feet per minute when fully loaded. My only suggestion is that you carefully pick a point on the runway where you will abort the takeoff if not yet airborne. This should be around half way to the far end of the runway. Once you are airborne you can do a similar check while flying the pattern before departing for your destination. If you can't make it to pattern altitude before getting half way downwind then it might be prudent to land and adjust your propeller for more effective climb. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA Zodiac XL, Jab 3300 On 10/2/2013 6:59 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Hello all. Quick question.... > > I changed the pitch of my prop for a cruise setting, so I lost about 200-300' min doing so at 1100lbs. At 1100lbs, (1300 is gross) I saw 1200-1300'/min at 1100lbs. With the pitch change i see between 600-1100'/min depending on the day. What impact would adding 200lbs to bring it to gross do you think? My concern is whether it will climb or not. It's a ROTAX 912ULS. > > IM flying gross tomorrow am from a 4000' runway. I'd LOVE some feedback on this. Hope I'm not getting myself in over my head at gross. Guess the only way to find out is try. > > ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED!!!!! > > Thanks! > > Chad Scriver > > ZODIAC 601XL-B > Rotax 912ULS > WARPDDRIVE 3 blade > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409732#409732 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2013
From: pms <ps24244(at)charter.net>
Subject: - - Confusing - -
Have never seen such a confusing way to communicate . . . today I see,, "6 messages" but where are they? How do I read them? 1. 09:37 AM - Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13 (pms) 2. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13 (Carlos Sa) 3. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13 () 4. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/01/13 (Carlos Sa) 5. 06:59 PM - Climb question.... URGENT. HOPING FOR ANSWER BY 1200 Zulu! (SIDESLIP) 6. 07:18 PM - Re: Climb question.... URGENT. HOPING FOR ANSWER BY 1200 Zulu! (Paul Mulwitz) I click on - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter and that goes no where. Says, "*Invalid Request"* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Climb question.... URGENT. HOPING FOR ANSWER BY 1200
Zulu!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Oct 03, 2013
Update******* Flew the plane 10lbs under gross. DA was 675'. 17 degrees Celsius. Climbed at 700-850'/min. Even did some climbs from 3000' and saw almost 1000'/min up there at 18 degrees. So, all in all, seemed to climb fine at gross. I'm happy with it. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409792#409792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2013
From: pms <ps24244(at)charter.net>
Subject: - - Subaru 2.2 with gear reduction
Looking for input on the use of 1998 Subaru Legacy EJ22 and gear reduction drive on a Zodiac 601 HDS. So far I have not found a recommendation for grade / brand of rear lub. Also, fuel use,, Auto or 100LL with Decalin ?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any Zenith builders/flyers in Alamogordo-Las Cruces area
From: "ch701builder" <keith.ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Date: Oct 09, 2013
All, I am TDY down here in the Alamogordo area and was wondering if there are any builders/flyers in the area. Contact me direct: ch701builder(at)yahoo.com Thanks, Keith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410187#410187 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Going through someone else's work on an HDS
From: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2013
I am trying to get some information on the location of the aleron horn. I purchased a "90%" complete kit. And the aleron horn contacts splice plate just past the rear zee. Is this the correct location. Also any pics of the cut outs for the ib/ob wing sections would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410576#410576 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2013
Subject: Re: Going through someone else's work on an HDS
Hello I don't have the plans handy, but here are a couple of 601 websites that can be helpful: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/index.htm http://www.macsmachine.com/ Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 14 October 2013 23:41, LNelson wrote: > > I am trying to get some information on the location of the aleron horn. I > purchased a "90%" complete kit. And the aleron horn contacts splice plate > just past the rear zee. Is this the correct location. Also any pics of > the cut outs for the ib/ob wing sections would be appreciated. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2013
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Going through someone else's work on an HDS
On 10/14/2013 8:41 PM, LNelson wrote: > > I am trying to get some information on the location of the aleron horn. I purchased a "90%" complete kit. And the aleron horn contacts splice plate just past the rear zee. Is this the correct location. Also any pics of the cut outs for the ib/ob wing sections would be appreciated. > > Larry, I think you are talking about 6-V-7-7. There is a note on the plans that state to "trim then to clear aileron control horn" so that you get the proper travel on the aileron. I've attached 2 photos where you can see that I've removed some metal to allow the spec'ed aileron throw. Jerry Latimer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2013
From: SUE JANNAKOS <gpjann1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: test for new user
testing for new user. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2013
Subject: Re: test for new user
Welcome aboard On 22 October 2013 12:10, SUE JANNAKOS wrote: > > testing for new user. > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net>
Subject: HDS for sale
Date: Oct 22, 2013
I was a regular (under the name of zodiacjeff) on this list from about mid '99 until '04 and then went into lurk mode. During the '98 - '02 period I built a Jabiru 3300 powered HDS which now has 348 hours on her. Never in all that time did I think I'd ever part with "my baby" but now that time has arrived due to health reasons. Perhaps you know of someone who might be interested. Over 2200 hours in build Complete Randolph Epibond epoxy of interior airframe Sensenich fixed prop Grand Rapids EIS 2000 Naviad AP-1 Vertical card compass Icom-A200 Narco AT155 Intercom is DRE 201 Sport pilot/LSA Professionally painted (Concept 2000 system) in Base White and Ford's Desert Violet NDH Just completed thorough conditional inspection I think the workmanship is superb, but then again, I built it! Price $44,800, serious inquiries, please. Located in southcentral Pennsylvania. tjs22t(at)verizon.net (717) 697-2999) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: HDS for sale
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2013
Sorry to see you part with your plane. I want to thank you again for all th e help on my own project and I know from all you sent me that your plane is o f highest quality we can see. Sent from my iPhone On 2013-10-22, at 17:06, "THOMAS SMALL" wrote: > I was a regular (under the name of zodiacjeff) on this list from about mid '99 until '04 and then went into lurk mode. During the '98 - '02 period I b uilt a Jabiru 3300 powered HDS which now has 348 hours on her. Never in all that time did I think I'd ever part with "my baby" but now that time has ar rived due to health reasons. > > Perhaps you know of someone who might be interested. > > Over 2200 hours in build > Complete Randolph Epibond epoxy of interior airframe > Sensenich fixed prop > Grand Rapids EIS 2000 > Naviad AP-1 > Vertical card compass > Icom-A200 > Narco AT155 > Intercom is DRE 201 > Sport pilot/LSA > Professionally painted (Concept 2000 system) in Base White and Ford's Dese rt Violet > NDH > Just completed thorough conditional inspection > > I think the workmanship is superb, but then again, I built it! > > Price $44,800, serious inquiries, please. Located in southcentral Pennsyl vania. > > tjs22t(at)verizon.net (717) 697-2999) > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2013
From: SUE JANNAKOS <gpjann1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Zodiac601 for sale
ZODIAC 601HDS =A2 $14,000 =A2 AVAILABLE FOR SALE =A2 NOT LSA, Zodiac 601HDS, One owner/builder, trigear, Corvair engine. 175+ hrs, D ay VFR, warpdrive prop, elev trim, xponder, encoder, strobe light, stolspee d vortex generators. nitrated standard crank, 5th bearing, wgt 741lbs. Plan s built using mfg's rear fuse kit & canopy kit, Weseman's cowl, baffling & 5th bearing, WW's parts, accessories & nose bowl , XL's nose gear mount. Bu ilt to WW's specs. Mar. 2013 annual. May sale separately plane and engine =A2 Contact Greg P. Jannakos , Owner - located Grayson, GA USA =A2 Telephone: 770-277-1637 =A2 =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2013
From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: High Attitude Engine Run Test
Hey guys,=0A-=0AI am looking for the best/safest way to block up and tie down-my 601HDS with tricycle gear for the nose high, above stall attitude , engine run (as stated below).- Pictures would be very helpful.- =0A -=0AEAA Amateur-Built Airplane Certification Inspection Guide:=0A"The air plane must be 100% complete. The engine should have been run for at least 1 hour. The run should have included operating in a nose high above stall at titude to ensure full fuel flow, and a full power run to verify and ensure maximum designed RPM is attained. The engine run information should be reco rded in the airplane maintenance records. Engine compression test informati on should be available for review."=0A-=0AThanks,=0A-=0ASteve Sims=0A60 1HDS=0ACorvair 2700=0AZenoah(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2013
From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Maintenance Logbooks
Hey guys,=0A-=0AI'm trying to get all of my paperwork together for my air worthiness inspection.--If you have an electronic copy of the maintenan ce logbooks (airframe, engine, prop) I would appreciate a copy of it.-- =0A-=0AThanks,=0A-=0ASteve=0A601HDS=0ACorvair ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leroy Wheeler" <flyboy3847(at)onecommail.com>
Subject: Maintenance Logbooks
Date: Oct 28, 2013
Steve, You can buy all these logbooks from Sporty's at minimal cost. The examiners like to see printed and handwritten entries. Regards, Leroy _____ From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sims Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:06 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Maintenance Logbooks Hey guys, I'm trying to get all of my paperwork together for my airworthiness inspection. If you have an electronic copy of the maintenance logbooks (airframe, engine, prop) I would appreciate a copy of it. Thanks, Steve 601HDS Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2013
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: High Attitude Engine Run Test
Steve, I've attached a photo of how I performed this test. My drive way has a nice slope to it. I then ran the nose wheel up a ramp. This gave me a angle close to the stall angle or climb out angle. I then blocked the mains and tied the tail to my truck. The airplane was pointed away from my neighbor's houses. The header tank only had about 1/2 gallon of fuel, so the fuel pump was well above the fuel level. The test was run with only the motor's mechanical fuel pump. Also you had asked for electronic copies of maintenance, motor, and prop logs. My DAR said all I needed was a maintenance log. You have to have an entry that you've inspected the aircraft and that it meets the FAA requirements. Not sure about the exact wording, maintenance log is at the airport. I had used wording that I got from Kitplanes magazine, but my DAR didn't like it, so he told me what to write and we made the log entry during the inspection. It is a good idea to contact the DAR ahead of time and work all of this out before hand. Jerry 601HDS 912ULS 250 hours. On 10/27/2013 4:32 PM, Steve Sims wrote: > Hey guys, > I am looking for the best/safest way to block up and tie down my > 601HDS with tricycle gear for the nose high, above stall attitude, > engine run (as stated below). Pictures would be very helpful. > *EAA* *Amateur-Built Airplane Certification Inspection Guide:* > "The airplane must be 100% complete. The engine should have been run > for at least 1 hour. *The run should have included operating in a nose > high above stall attitude to ensure full fuel flow, and a full power > run to verify and ensure maximum designed RPM is attained.* The engine > run information should be recorded in the airplane maintenance > records. Engine compression test information should be available for > review." > Thanks, > Steve Sims > 601HDS > Corvair 2700 > Zenoah(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)AOL.COM
Date: Oct 28, 2013
Subject: Re: High Attitude Engine Run Test
Nice looking plane. What did you use to polish the aluminum? Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2013
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: High Attitude Engine Run Test
Thanks. I used the Nuvite polish system. Jerry On 10/28/2013 9:40 AM, JohnDRead(at)AOL.COM wrote: > Nice looking plane. What did you use to polish the aluminum? > Regards, John > > CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 > > Cell: 719-494-4567 > Home: 303-648-3261** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution counts! This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. In fact, there are over 30 different gifts to choose from - more than we've ever had before! There's something for everyone, to be sure. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on the Matronics Lists and they have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous members include: Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com Corbin Glowacki of My Pilot Store http://www.mypilotstore.com George Race of Race Consulting http://www.mrrace.com/ Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and excellent aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon their generous support of the Lists again this year!! Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Network Issues At Matronics Last Few Days...
Dear Listers, Starting sometime on Friday November 1st, my Internet Service Provider (ISP) began "upgrading" their Domain Name Servers (DNS). DNS servers allow the resolution of computer names such as "www.matronics.com" to real addresses such as 64.81.74.3. This also impacts email delivery as well, since there is another layer of resolution that applies to email names. Because of this upgrade on the part of my ISP, DNS service started getting unreliable around Friday sometime, but I didn't notice it until sometime on Saturday. When I used a tool called "nslookup" to test the resolution of name-to-address, about 50-75% of the time my ISP's servers would response with an "SERVFAIL" indicating that they didn't know the answer. I opened a ticket with the ISP on Saturday, and by Sunday afternoon I had no feedback on the ticket so I called in to support. "We upgrading the DNS servers, and it should back by Sunday at 5pm." 5pm came and went with no resolution. Well, long story short by Tuesday morning things were still not fixed and in fact much worse. So, I opted to move all my DNS service to a different service provider. I have a lot of DNS entries, so it took a while to get everything moved over. It generally takes about 24 hours for a change like that to fully propagate across the Internet which would be Wednesday morning sometime. I've noticed that the Matronics web server traffic is picking up again, so many sites have already propagated the new information. I really should have just moved the DNS on Saturday when I first noticed the troubles, but with stuff like this, you just keep believing that it gonna be fixed any minute now.... And, in fact, that's what my ISP kept telling me... Its always a giant bummer when stuff like this happens and particularly during the Fund Raiser. I apologize to anyone that has tried to make a Contribution in the last few days and had issues or was simply unable to connect. By the time you read this email, the DNS should be fully propagated, and I ask that you please try again. The Contribution web site URL is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your kind consideration and patience, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A
Contribution Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94551-0347 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2013
From: pms <ps24244(at)charter.net>
Subject: - - photo share - -
Why doesn't photo share work ? Last one I can find is Oct. 2008. 601 listing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2013
Subject: Re: - - photo share - -
It probably still works, but people just attach the picture to the note they are sending to the list. Photoshare was created when attachments and pictures were not allowed in the list. Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada On 10 November 2013 08:09, pms wrote: > > Why doesn't photo share work ? Last one I can find is Oct. 2008. 601 > listing. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Email Disruption Fixed...
Dear Listers, Starting around midnight this morning 11/11/13, the Matronics Barracuda spam filter that receives all incoming email from the Internet, developed a problem and started rejecting all incoming email. I just got off the phone with the Barracuda technical support and we have If you have posted to any of the Lists during this time, you will need to resend your email to the respective List. My apologies for the disruption! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2013
From: pms <ps24244(at)charter.net>
Subject: - - Zodiac 601HDS
Zenith 601 Pete Stockey ps24244(at)charter.net Plain Plane Picture This was purchased lately in Valparaiso IN. and is now hangar-ed in GZS Has a Subaru 2.2 gear reduction and 420 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A List Contribution Today; Some Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of really nice gifts available this year, so please browse the selections and pickup something fun with your qualifying Contribution! You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or feel free to send a personal check to: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator -------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists -------------------- I wondered off for a few years & am coming back. I firmly believe you provide greater value to us than some magazine subscriptions. William F Thanks for helping me connect to people have truly blazed the trail. Terry M Thank you for the time and effort you put into keeping these lists going. I am on the verge of flying my RV 8 and would not be here without the help of Matronics. Michael W Thank you for providing a valuable service. Vaughn T Matt I like your forums. Jerry D Thank you for another year of service. Oscar Z Been a "member" for years - this has been a fantastic resource and a great gift to the aviation community. Reade G Thanks for the many years of support to RV builders. Roy H Best run list on the net. Roger C Thanks for your excellent forum! Fred D Truly respect your work and service to many readers!! Fergus K Thanks for an ad-free list! William A Thank you for your GREAT service. I read it every day. John B ..great service! Ralph C Thanks so much for being there. Your contribution to aviation knowledge is invaluable. Benjamin B Thank you for providing the list service. It's great! William V I'd never have finished my Glasair without them. Ronald C Thank you Matt for the valuable forum, am pleased to contribute! Jeffrey J Fine service. Byron G Thanks for your support of our community! Kenneth B -------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists -------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Behind By 25% - Please Contribute Today!
Dear Listers, The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 25%. We got off to a slow start this year with the network DNS issues on the kickoff weekend, so please take this opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums! Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I might have to add advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I don't want to have to do that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too. Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List and Forums Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brandon Tucker <BTUCKE73(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 601 HDS Corvair Parts For Sale
Date: Nov 21, 2013
Parting out my Corvair HDS. 160 hrs. Please email or call for details. btucke73(at)yahoo.com. Located in central Florida. (760)586-5757. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution Today...
Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser and the List of Contributors is quickly approching. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for by your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Subject: Engine Heaters
From: Bruce Carlson <bcarlson57(at)gmail.com>
I couldn't start my 601 with a Jabiru 3300 yesterday. OAT 35 degrees. The plane is new to me and I learned the Jabiru engine does like the cold. I find the Tanis engine heater is recommended. Do these come with installation instructions? -- Bruce Carlson, Hermiston, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser...
>From the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap into the large volume of activity across the various lists hosted here, but have always flatly refused. Everywhere you go on the Internet these days, a user is pummeled with flashing banners and videos and ads for crap that they don't want. Yahoo, Google and that elk are not "free". The user must constantly endure their barrage of commercialism thrust into their face at an ever increasing rate. Enough is enough, and the Lists at Matronics choose not to succumb to that. That being said, running a service of this size is not "free". It costs a lot of money to maintain the hardware, pay for the electricity, air conditioning, maintenance contracts, etc, etc. etc. I choose to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year during the month of November where I simply send out a short email every other day asking the members to make a small contribution to support the operation. That being said, that contribution is completely voluntary and non-compulsory. Many members choose not to contribute and that's fine. However, a very modest percentage of the members do choose to make a contribution and it is that financial support that keeps the Lists running. And that's it. To my way of thinking, it is a much more pleasant way of maintaining the Lists and Forums. The other 11 months of the year, you don't see a single advertisement or request for support. That's refreshing and that is a List and Forum that I want to belong to. I think other people feel the same way. Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
[Dear Listers, last week, Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame, posted a very nice message discussing the Lists and Forums at Matronics. It is a very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of the Lists for the other members to enjoy and contemplate as well. He gladly agreed, and so below I have included the text from that message. Enjoy. -Matt Dralle, Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator] "As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out of touch. After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to contemplate. The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply because we're unaware of their significance. I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written in 1958 titled "I pencil". See: http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited uncountable windows of opportunity for what has been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's essay is to examine two features of the human experience that contribute to the success of this List and our various interests in airplanes. The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time, talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never know. Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance of the criticality for any single component for a host of materials and components for the manufacture and sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose any one of the materials or processes described in Read's essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the economy of our existence?" The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware. Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on his way to Wichita some morning. Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal needs for existence. Several times a year I get an opportunity to plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and hear somebody in line complaining about the wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business to encourage them to be open tomorrow. It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what Matt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals who subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . certainly many more make up the population of subscribers to all of the Lists on Matronics. A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials and tribulations over the naming of his products . . . seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan' and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's operations now than it takes to stand in a line for a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. You and I can have no more positive influence over the manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue to purchase such things and encourage those with the time, talent and resources to continue doing what they do best. Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this service which is probably more valuable than we know. Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics Lists can make a big difference. Bob . . ." Please take a minute to make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Subject: Re: Milestone
Bobby, congratulations and thanks for the motivation! Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 26 November 2013 12:19, wrote: > Guys > Last Saturday I went out early as a front was approaching from the west. > It was clear blue sky and silky smooth air. I visited two nearby airports > and talked to several EAA'ers and homebuilders. As I was returning to my > home field the air was a little rough and the clouds were moving in from > the west. I glanced down at the Hobbs and saw it reading 199.9 hrs. > I made up my mind to over fly the field for at least 3 minutes so the > return flight would be equally long. As I landed and taxied up to shut > down the Hobbs read 200.1. A milestone. > The 601 XL "B" was finished in '07 and down again for the B mods. It has > been flying for about 4 1/2 yrs so the average flying time is roughly about > 44 hrs per year. > The airframe is trimmed about as good as I can get it and the heat > problems on the Jabiru 3300 are under control for the most part. The last > several flights come under the heading of "Why I Fly" as quoted by Brady > Lane in Sport Aviation. Flights such as the $100 hamburger with other > planes, fly-ins, and visits to other builders fields. > The enjoyment is getting better than the work factor. > Thanks to all on this list that helped along the way. > > Bobby ( age 75 ) > Zodiac 601 XL "B" > Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 > Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop > Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet > Status - Flying 200.1 hrs. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming
Soon! Dear Listers, There's just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two Days Left...
Dear Listers, There are just a couple days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it! The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose from this year. I personally want at least four of them! There's probably something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your Lists! Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists! Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Heaters
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
FYI, I use a 100 watt rough service bulb in a trouble light under the lower cowl and a quilt blanket on the upper cowl in the hangar here in Michigan. This morning at 17F oat and about 30F in the hangar it was 60F for the engine. The trick is in placing the quilt close the air inlets so there are not chimneys for the warm air to escape. I just stuff the quilt in the holes. The light just stays on during the winter and gets inserted from below at the cowl exit. It starts right up. I take the quilt and some bungee cord to secure it when I fly out for breakfast. Two hours later it still has enough heat to start right up. -------- Ron Lendon WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing CH 601 XLB N601LT - Flying http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414549#414549 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again; the big 50, in fact! But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running and I don't ever forget it. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: pms <ps24244(at)charter.net>
Subject: - - Keeping "it" Warm - -
For years I lived in northern MN, had a T hangar for my N52GW. What worked well for me was a thermostatic controlled heater. It was a small one, about 9" cubed. I would put it down low in the cockpit, set at 35*, cover the entire front of the plane with a couple of bed spreads. The heat was good for keeping frost out of instruments AND there was still enough going forward to keep dampness out of engine. Even at 20 below oat, this system worked for me. pete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Subject: Re: - - Keeping "it" Warm - -
From: Bruce Carlson <bcarlson57(at)gmail.com>
Thanks all for your suggestions. All less expensive than a Tanis engine heater. Since my airplane is currently always hangared in the wintertime, I have built a PVC frame to cover the front cowling. Plan to cover it with wool blankets (available at Harbort Freight for $10 each) Heating this with a radiant oil filled radiator ( no open heat coils) Will send pictures and let you all know how this works. Bruce C > > -- Bruce Carlson, RPh, MD, DABFM Hermiston, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Joining the wings. Finally
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 14, 2013
Hi everyone I have finally finished enough to join the wings to the fuse next week. I can't find any info in the photo guides on drilling the back spar hole There is a little info in page 6-S-3 of the plans. Is that all there is? If so What are the tips and tricks to the wing installation ? Chris I hope I get it right or it won't fly right. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415600#415600 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
Hi Chris, I gave up on the photo guides early, so I don't remember what they had to offer on the wing mounting. As I recall there were two big issues to resolve. The first and most difficult was drilling through all the layers of wing root and carry-through to get a nice smooth hole. It needs to fit the bolt very nicely but not too tight for the bolt to be inserted and removed later. I went through several attempts at this drilling problem because the length of the holes made it difficult. The method that worked for me was to use just drills rather than any reamers. I started with small drill diameters and "Step Drilled" in very small increments until reaching the final size. I don't remember exactly how I held it all in place for drilling but I'm sure it included using at least a few bolts torqued to hold the carry through and wing together. Then as the holes got bigger the clamping bolts needed to be swapped so the holes with bolts became holes without bolts for drilling. The rear hole was very easy. It sets the rear wing position compared to the top longerons. You just need to make the measurement shown on the drawings and clamp the wing in position for drilling the hole. Good luck, Paul Camas, WA XL out of phase I - in normal flight operations. On 12/14/2013 11:32 PM, chris Sinfield wrote: > > Hi everyone > I have finally finished enough to join the wings to the fuse next week. > I can't find any info in the photo guides on drilling the back spar hole > There is a little info in page 6-S-3 of the plans. > > Is that all there is? > If so > > What are the tips and tricks to the wing installation ? > Chris > I hope I get it right or it won't fly right. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415600#415600 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 15, 2013
Paul The front holes were done already and so it's just the rear hole and alignment checks. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415616#415616 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Dec 15, 2013
Chris, Remember you have to cut out some of the bottom wing skin to get access to the inside of the wing to get at the attach bolt. When you cut that access hole, you can then temporarily clamp the rear spar to the attach bracket w hile you adjust the alignment. You can't really do anything with the dista nce from the longeron refernece line to the top of the main spar, so the al ignment of the rear spar is really all you can do. I think you are buildin g a 601, so I would concentrate on making the rear tip of the wing skin 100 mm lower than the top of the main spar. Once your alignment is set, you ca n drill for the bolt, staying as far away from edges as possible yet with r oom to access the nut. I put a little witness paint on that nut once it wa s torqued, and added a look at that to the pre-flightr check list. I drill ed a small pilot hole before drilling out to the proper size. Hope this he lps. Jay ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Date: Dec 15, 2013
Chris, If you have a large build space, it is much easier, just mount the wings, final torque the main spar bolts and use 6-S-3, it has everything you need. This is the procedure I would suggest for a confined space: Measure the dR vs dL of all the 601XLs you can find. I have found some beyond 50 but within the +/-50 called out in 6-S-3. There is no reason not to shoot for +/-5 mm. Final drilling of the rear spar and 6B5-4 should be something you do near the end of your build. First off, it is not good for the main spar bolt tolerances to mount and dismount your wings repeatedly during the build (or even after.) If you have a confined space, mount the left wing using taper pins for the main spar and then drill a 1/16" hole in the rear spar and 6B5-4 leaving the bit in place in order to set the longeron/6W7-1 aft edge reference to 325. Then measure dL. Remove the wing. Move the airplane over to the other side of the garage and repeat the steps above with the right wing but this time try to match dR to dL. You may not be able to, just do the best you can. Drill this side out to 1/8". Remove the right wing. If dL=dR, you are done for now, if not ,go back to mounting the left wing and re-drill it to dR's length. Make sure you have these 1/16 and 1/8" holes close enough so the final hole can consume both. Use clecos to hold them in place for now. In anticipation of having to tighten the final rear spar bolt, drill a 3/4" hole in the bottom skin far enough forward from the rear spar in order to fit an angled head wrench into wing in order to tighten the rear spar bolt. I know the plans (6-W-0) say cut out rectangular a 20x40 notch, but a round 19.05 mm hole in the correct place is better. One you have painted your airplane and are ready to put the wings on for the last time, torque the main spar bolts to spec with the rear spar clecos out. At this point you measure dR vs. dL with accuracy. Don't be surprised if the 1/8" hole in the rear spar does not mate up with the hole in 6B5-4, it is to be expected since this time the main spar bolts are torqued to spec. Drill and ream final once you have your desired tolerance (dR vs. dL), install your AN5-5As and torque to spec. At that point, mount and rivet the previously clecoed flaps in place. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415627#415627 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2013
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
From: Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com>
Well put, Sabrina!!! Rick On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Sabrina wrote: > > Chris, > > If you have a large build space, it is much easier, just mount the wings, > final torque the main spar bolts and use 6-S-3, it has everything you need. > > This is the procedure I would suggest for a confined space: > > Measure the dR vs dL of all the 601XLs you can find. I have found some > beyond 50 but within the +/-50 called out in 6-S-3. There is no reason not > to shoot for +/-5 mm. > > Final drilling of the rear spar and 6B5-4 should be something you do near > the end of your build. First off, it is not good for the main spar bolt > tolerances to mount and dismount your wings repeatedly during the build (or > even after.) > > If you have a confined space, mount the left wing using taper pins for the > main spar and then drill a 1/16" hole in the rear spar and 6B5-4 leaving > the bit in place in order to set the longeron/6W7-1 aft edge reference to > 325. Then measure dL. Remove the wing. > > Move the airplane over to the other side of the garage and repeat the > steps above with the right wing but this time try to match dR to dL. You > may not be able to, just do the best you can. Drill this side out to 1/8". > Remove the right wing. > > If dL=dR, you are done for now, if not ,go back to mounting the left wing > and re-drill it to dR's length. Make sure you have these 1/16 and 1/8" > holes close enough so the final hole can consume both. Use clecos to hold > them in place for now. > > In anticipation of having to tighten the final rear spar bolt, drill a > 3/4" hole in the bottom skin far enough forward from the rear spar in order > to fit an angled head wrench into wing in order to tighten the rear spar > bolt. I know the plans (6-W-0) say cut out rectangular a 20x40 notch, but > a round 19.05 mm hole in the correct place is better. > > One you have painted your airplane and are ready to put the wings on for > the last time, torque the main spar bolts to spec with the rear spar clecos > out. > > At this point you measure dR vs. dL with accuracy. Don't be surprised if > the 1/8" hole in the rear spar does not mate up with the hole in 6B5-4, it > is to be expected since this time the main spar bolts are torqued to spec. > Drill and ream final once you have your desired tolerance (dR vs. dL), > install your AN5-5As and torque to spec. > > At that point, mount and rivet the previously clecoed flaps in place. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415627#415627 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2013 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2013 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors. It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running! You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon for their generous support through the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Corbin Glowacki - My Pilot Store - http://www.mypilotstore.com George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2013 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2013.html Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Joining the wings. Finally
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: Dec 16, 2013
On my 601XL, I drilled the access hole for the rear spar bolt through the fuselage side skin. I can reach both ends of the bolt for tightening with the flaps on. On Dec 15, 2013, at 3:14 PM, chris Sinfield wrote: > > Paul > The front holes were done already and so it's just the rear hole and alignment checks. > Chris -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion
From: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2013
Hey Everyone I ended up with the deal on a mostly complete 601 HDS. Now a problem I am running into is the canopy conversion from the side hinge to the XL forward hinge. Are there any instructions on how to do the conversion? Or just use the XL plans and hope for the best. Larry Nelson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415727#415727 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2013
From: Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion
Larry, I used the front hinged XL canopy on my HD fuselage. I built it that way from the start, but don't remember any real concerns with the change. I did buy the entire XL canopy kit including the additional hinge related pieces on the sides. I can dig up pictures if you need them. Jeff N601T -----Original Message----- >From: LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com> >Sent: Dec 16, 2013 8:52 AM >To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith601-List: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion > > >Hey Everyone >I ended up with the deal on a mostly complete 601 HDS. Now a problem I am running into is the canopy conversion from the side hinge to the XL forward hinge. Are there any instructions on how to do the conversion? Or just use the XL plans and hope for the best. > >Larry Nelson > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415727#415727 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2013
Subject: Re: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
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From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2013
Subject: Re: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion
Hello, Larry I am building from plans, but bought the CH650 canopy kit from Zenair. I have the homebuilthelp.com video that describes the 601-XL to 650-XL canopy conversion - I think it will be very helpful. I didn't start the installation yet, except for the front fittings and the lock/unlock rod. And a Hendricks latch - pretty cool. Good luck Carlos On 16 December 2013 08:52, LNelson wrote: > > Hey Everyone > I ended up with the deal on a mostly complete 601 HDS. Now a problem I am > running into is the canopy conversion from the side hinge to the XL forward > hinge. Are there any instructions on how to do the conversion? Or just > use the XL plans and hope for the best. > > Larry Nelson > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415727#415727 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2013
From: Marcos Varela Sartal <mvarelasartal(at)yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: HDS to XL Canopy Conversion
Hi to everybody,=0AI=B4m building the 601 HD and right now I=B4m bought the standard canopy from Tood=B4s (not received yet).=0AI want to install the hinged XL style, but What=B4s really-the diference between XL bubble and mine?=0AThanks, Marcos=0AEl Lunes 16 de diciembre de 2013 16:23, Carlos Sa escribi=F3:=0A-=0AHello, Larry=0A=0A=0AI am buildi ng from plans, but bought the CH650 canopy kit from Zenair.=0A=0AI have the homebuilthelp.com video that describes the 601-XL to 650-XL canopy convers ion - I think it will be very helpful.=0AI didn't start the installation ye t, except for the front fittings and the lock/unlock rod.=0AAnd a Hendricks latch - pretty cool.=0A=0A=0AGood luck=0A=0ACarlos=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 16 Dec ember 2013 08:52, LNelson wrote:=0A=0A--> Zenith601-Li st message posted by: "LNelson" =0A>=0A>Hey Everyone=0A >I ended up with the deal on a mostly complete 601 HDS. -Now a problem I am running into is the canopy conversion from the side hinge to the XL forw ard hinge. -Are there any instructions on how to do the conversion? -Or just use the XL plans and hope for the best.=0A>=0A>Larry Nelson=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com /viewtopic.php?p=415727#415727=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=== =========0A>="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com=0A>ooks.com" t arget="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A>et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.c om=0A>et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0A>"_blank">www.mrrace.com=0A>=" _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>le, List Admin.=0A>== ==========0A>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Zenith601-List=0A>============0A>http:// forums.matronics.com=0A>============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ====== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose gear instal
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 21, 2013
Hi I am getting back into building after a break and revisiting the nose gear area. I have hand written notes about drilling a drain hole in the bottom of the main nose strut at the bottom. Was this something I needed to do or was this someone's idea and I thought I might do it as well. So did I miss an update to the planes? Is the 650 nose strut drilled with a drain hole? If so what size hole? Also the 6 AN 4-10 bolts that hold the doubler plate to the bottom of the strut. Which way do the bolts go in? I also have a note about having the nuts on top so as to not hit the tyre on heavy landing. Is there a clearance issue here that I missed as well. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416035#416035 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear instal
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Dec 22, 2013
Chris, The nose gear strut on my 601 has a closed top so there is no need for a dr ain hole. The 650 and later 601 kits have a nose gear strut with an open t op so it might be advisable to have that drain hole. The nose gear fork bolts can go in with the head on top, nuts on bottom. I f you have a hard enough landing for the tire to hit those bolts, you have bent the fork (and probably a lot of other stuff). Jay -----Original Message----- From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 11:08 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Nose gear instal o.com.au> Hi I am getting back into building after a break and revisiting the nose gear area. I have hand written notes about drilling a drain hole in the bottom of the main nose strut at the bottom. Was this something I needed to do or was this someone's idea and I thought I might do it as well. So did I miss an update to the planes? Is the 650 nose strut drilled with a drain hole? If so what size hole? Also the 6 AN 4-10 bolts that hold the doubler plate to the bottom of the s trut. Which way do the bolts go in? I also have a note about having the nuts on t op so as to not hit the tyre on heavy landing. Is there a clearance issue here th at I missed as well. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Nose gear instal
Date: Dec 22, 2013
Hi Chris, The bungee action on the nose strut should be less than 3 to 4 inches in normal handling and landing. To get more than that risks getting the prop tips. I suggest you consider using a stop ring on the strut. Then you can set a safe travel limit and prevent damage to anything in a bounce. Build one from these drawings if it suits you, and you can add a tow bar for handling on the ramp. See links below, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travel-stop-and-stear-link.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/tow-bar-construct.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601towbar3.gif Fly safe, Larry McFarland 601HDS Piper Cherokee -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 11:07 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Nose gear instal --> Hi I am getting back into building after a break and revisiting the nose gear area. I have hand written notes about drilling a drain hole in the bottom of the main nose strut at the bottom. Was this something I needed to do or was this someone's idea and I thought I might do it as well. So did I miss an update to the planes? Is the 650 nose strut drilled with a drain hole? If so what size hole? Also the 6 AN 4-10 bolts that hold the doubler plate to the bottom of the strut. Which way do the bolts go in? I also have a note about having the nuts on top so as to not hit the tyre on heavy landing. Is there a clearance issue here that I missed as well. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416035#416035 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose gear instal
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 22, 2013
Thanks guys I will leave the strut alone as I can always drill it later. I have also made a ring to attach for steering. And I will try and not hard land. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416069#416069 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear wing bolt size
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 22, 2013
Hi I can't find in the plans the new rear spar 5/16th bolt size after the upgrade 6-ZU-2 has the fwd spar but where is the rear Spar bolt part number Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416087#416087 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear wing bolt size
From: "sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2013
Chris, The original 601XL plans called for a -5A with a grip length of 3/16". With the 650/601XLB upgrade, I doubt you have added more than an additional 1/8" of material, so a -6A should be fine, just keep an eye on the thread count after you have torqued it in place. If you run over the -6 grip length, go with a -7A and add the appropriate washers. There are only two so the fuel to run to the store a second time would cost more than the extra bolts would now. See attached. The last time I wished you a Merry Christmas, you complained it was already the 26th, so Merry Christmas. You mentioned a 9 year old back then, now they should be 13 going on 14. Can they solo in Aussieland at 14 like Canada? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416168#416168 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_spruce_397.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2013
From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: First Flight Prep
Merry Christmas everyone,=0A=0AAfter 5 years of building my 601HDS-and Co rvair engine, I finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.- I had m y airworthiness inspection last week which went-extremely smooth.- So n ow, it is finally time to change my focus from builder to flyer.- Insuran ce requires me to have 3 hours of dual time before my first flight so last Sunday I drove 6 hours to Lawrenceburg, Tenn. to get it at-Buzz Air Fligh t Academy.-Not only did I get checked out in their 601, I had the most fu n flying that I have ever had!- Up to this point,-all of my time-has -been in-C-172s and Warriors... the 601 seems like a sports car compare d to those!- What a blast, Highly recommended!- I-am now even more ex cited for-my first flight in the next week or so.- =0A=0AIf any 601HDS flyers out there have an e-copy of their test phase or even-Advice/Lesson s Learned from their test phase-I would appreciate it.=0A=0AFor those sti ll building keep it up... believe it or not, all of those little parts-wi ll come together one day! =0A=0AHappy Holidays!=0A=0ASteve Sims=0ANavarre, Fl=0AN601A=0A601 HDS=0ACorvair 2700=0Ahttp://websites.expercraft.com/zenoah /=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2013
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: First Flight Prep
Hi Steve, If you have not yet done so I highly recommend you get a copy of the FAA circular AC90-89A. It has a great deal of information about flight test. I used to to get started testing my Zodiac XL and think it was a great help. Paul Camas, WA On 12/25/2013 9:42 PM, Steve Sims wrote: > Merry Christmas everyone, > > After 5 years of building my 601HDS and Corvair engine, I finally seen > the light at the end of the tunnel. I had my airworthiness inspection > last week which went extremely smooth. So now, it is finally time to > change my focus from builder to flyer. Insurance requires me to have 3 > hours of dual time before my first flight so last Sunday I drove 6 > hours to Lawrenceburg, Tenn. to get it at Buzz Air Flight Academy. Not > only did I get checked out in their 601, I had the most fun flying > that I have ever had! Up to this point, all of my time has been > in C-172s and Warriors... the 601 seems like a sports car compared to > those! What a blast, Highly recommended! I am now even more excited > for my first flight in the next week or so. > > If any 601HDS flyers out there have an e-copy of their test phase or > even Advice/Lessons Learned from their test phase I would appreciate it. > > For those still building keep it up... believe it or not, all of those > little parts will come together one day! > > Happy Holidays! > > Steve Sims > Navarre, Fl > N601A > 601 HDS > Corvair 2700 > http://websites.expercraft.com/zenoah/ > > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/25/13
From: Rich <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net>
Date: Dec 26, 2013
I have spoke with them about getting some time in a 601 before I fly mine. Great to hear a good testimony. I hope I fly this summer as well! Best of luck! - Rich On Dec 26, 2013, at 2:01 AM, Zenith601-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-12-25&Archive=Zenith601 > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-25&Archive=Zenith601 > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith601-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 12/25/13: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 09:43 PM - First Flight Prep (Steve Sims) > 2. 09:59 PM - Re: First Flight Prep (Paul Mulwitz) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Zenith601-List: First Flight Prep > > Merry Christmas everyone,=0A=0AAfter 5 years of building my 601HDS-and Co > rvair engine, I finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel.- I had m > y airworthiness inspection last week which went-extremely smooth.- So n > ow, it is finally time to change my focus from builder to flyer.- Insuran > ce requires me to have 3 hours of dual time before my first flight so last > Sunday I drove 6 hours to Lawrenceburg, Tenn. to get it at-Buzz Air Fligh > t Academy.-Not only did I get checked out in their 601, I had the most fu > n flying that I have ever had!- Up to this point,-all of my time-has > -been in-C-172s and Warriors... the 601 seems like a sports car compare > d to those!- What a blast, Highly recommended!- I-am now even more ex > cited for-my first flight in the next week or so.- =0A=0AIf any 601HDS > flyers out there have an e-copy of their test phase or even-Advice/Lesson > s Learned from their test phase-I would appreciate it.=0A=0AFor those sti > ll building keep it up... believe it or not, all of those little parts-wi > ll come together one day! =0A=0AHappy Holidays!=0A=0ASteve Sims=0ANavarre, > Fl=0AN601A=0A601 HDS=0ACorvair 2700=0Ahttp://websites.expercraft.com/zenoah > /=0A > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> > Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: First Flight Prep > > Hi Steve, > > If you have not yet done so I highly recommend you get a copy of the FAA > circular AC90-89A. It has a great deal of information about flight > test. I used to to get started testing my Zodiac XL and think it was a > great help. > > Paul > Camas, WA > > On 12/25/2013 9:42 PM, Steve Sims wrote: >> Merry Christmas everyone, >> >> After 5 years of building my 601HDS and Corvair engine, I finally seen >> the light at the end of the tunnel. I had my airworthiness inspection >> last week which went extremely smooth. So now, it is finally time to >> change my focus from builder to flyer. Insurance requires me to have 3 >> hours of dual time before my first flight so last Sunday I drove 6 >> hours to Lawrenceburg, Tenn. to get it at Buzz Air Flight Academy. Not >> only did I get checked out in their 601, I had the most fun flying >> that I have ever had! Up to this point, all of my time has been >> in C-172s and Warriors... the 601 seems like a sports car compared to >> those! What a blast, Highly recommended! I am now even more excited >> for my first flight in the next week or so. >> >> If any 601HDS flyers out there have an e-copy of their test phase or >> even Advice/Lessons Learned from their test phase I would appreciate it. >> >> For those still building keep it up... believe it or not, all of those >> little parts will come together one day! >> >> Happy Holidays! >> >> Steve Sims >> Navarre, Fl >> N601A >> 601 HDS >> Corvair 2700 >> http://websites.expercraft.com/zenoah/ >> >> * >> >> * > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 26, 2013
Subject: Re: First Flight Prep
Hello, Steve First of all, congratulations, you have built one nice Zodie! Second, thanks for the website link - the CH601-HD(S) websites are few, and even fewer have pictures of this quality and size! Merry Christmas, hope the New Year will bring good weather for a first flight. Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada On 26 December 2013 00:42, Steve Sims wrote: > Merry Christmas everyone, > > After 5 years of building my 601HDS and Corvair engine, I finally seen the > light at the end of the tunnel. I had my airworthiness inspection last > week which went extremely smooth. So now, it is finally time to change my > focus from builder to flyer. Insurance requires me to have 3 hours of > dual time before my first flight so last Sunday I drove 6 hours to > Lawrenceburg, Tenn. to get it at Buzz Air Flight Academy. Not only did I > get checked out in their 601, I had the most fun flying that I have ever > had! Up to this point, all of my time has been in C-172s and Warriors... > the 601 seems like a sports car compared to those! What a blast, Highly > recommended! I am now even more excited for my first flight in the next > week or so. > > If any 601HDS flyers out there have an e-copy of their test phase or > even Advice/Lessons Learned from their test phase I would appreciate it. > > For those still building keep it up... believe it or not, all of those > little parts will come together one day! > > Happy Holidays! > > Steve Sims > Navarre, Fl > N601A > 601 HDS > Corvair 2700 > http://websites.expercraft.com/zenoah/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2013
From: Marcos Varela Sartal <mvarelasartal(at)yahoo.es>
Subject: AVMAP EKPIV For sold
If someone is interested on a perfect AVMP EKPIV with Americas database can contact me for private. I have two units so I sell this one, I bought it w hile sent my original unit for screen repair to AVMAP in Italy. Also can ch ange it for material for my CH601HD, specially interested on 5" or 6" wheel s kit.=0ARegards, Marcos=0ASPAIN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: UPDATE on C-GYXQ....
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 29, 2013
Hello all, been busy lately, so haven't made much of a visit here in awhile. I've decided in the early winter, that it was time to "restore" my Zodiac 601XL-B. I've had AME's pull the wings, and brought it to a reputable professional painter. I'm doing the red and white, and gold paint scheme commonly seen on the Zenith 650B. I managed some serious paint connections, and the paint cost me nothing. $7,000 worth of ultra high end DuPont paint system. The plane had a nose gear bungee failure, so I replaced that in a borrowed hangar, and realized, maybe this winter would be a good time to replace, refresh and restore. So, the airplane left the Oshawa airport, direct to the painter. Then from there, (next week) it's coming home to my garage. Going to try and rectify my CO in the cockpit issue I've struggled with. I'm replacing ALL rubber components, sending units, tires, brakes, heavily modify the exhaust via TIG welding amongst other items like a professional interior package. The plan is to have a perfect working, almost brand new plane when this is over! I have two major struggles to deal with first.... Fuel tank sending units not working correctly, and this CO problem which I'm told a simple 10-12" extension should cure. None the less, I'll have a TON of garage time over the next three or four months to rectify hopefully. Lots of trouble shooting to do. Either way, she's going to look like an $80,000 plane when she si finished! Im pretty excited to say the least! I've gotten a 40 year ultra high end DuPont 3 stage Imron Elite SS paint system, netting a paint job worth $12-15K! Cost me out of pocket around $4000! This plane was built in 2003/2004 by a gentleman in Carp Ontario canada. He elected to polish the airplane in place of painting it since he hangars it. That doesn't work for me, as it is now parked outdoors. Hangars are a small fortune here, so not an option. As it turns out, I have enough paint left over for a complete Zodiac. The plane was Etched and scotch padded. Then a DuPont Etching primer, ! followed by a DTM Epoxy primer, then the polyurethane topcoat. The balance of the paint is $900.00 cad per gallon including the reducer. It's approx $3700.00 worth of left over brand new in the can paint if someone is interested. I'd like $2500.00 for it, to help offset some of my transportation costs. The white is an off white, and the red is CANADA FLAG red. Does anyone have any suggestions for sealing the nose gear pushrod openings? I've heard Jeep shifter boots, but does anyone have a part number, or should I just go to a Jeep dealer and ask? Anyways..... Just sharing my excitement and winter project. There has been a lot of little things that it's needed since I bought it, but time to bring it up to Certified standards. This plane is for sale ironically enough, as the family wants to fly too, which puts me after a 172 or ideally a Cherokee. It'll be hard to part with now though, as truly........ IM IN LOVE! All the best to everyone in 2014! Safe flights, and may you always have a tailwind!! Photos are coming as the paint progresses. Thanks all for letting me share! Chad Scriver. - C-GYXQ. YOUTUBE Search the registration, and you'll see some pretty cool videos, especially flying over the City of Toronto at 2000' ASL. The CN TOWER LOOKS SUPER COOL from a Zodiac! -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416357#416357 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_134.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_678.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_327.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_237.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_516.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Milestone
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 29, 2013
Bobby, Did you sort out the CO problem like I'm having? I'm still working on mine. Chad C-GYXQ -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416358#416358 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CO
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Dec 30, 2013
Bobby, I'm am the victim of carbon monoxide poisoning! Many years ago while driving an Austin Healey across the Snake River Plain in one of Idaho's famous snow storms - the muffler fell off after hitting a chuck-hole left by road construction. I elected to continue driving and soon after the next thing I remember was a state cop trying to wake us - thinking that we were drunk! This Healey, being a rag-top, had more air leaks than a sieve - I and my Mother were dressed in our ski togs, had the heater turned up full force, etc... Excerpts from Wipeka: "Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas that is slightly less dense than air. It is toxic to humans and animals when encountered in higher concentrations. The most common symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may resemble other types of poisonings and infections, including symptoms such as headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, fatigue, and a feeling of weakness. Affected families often believe they are victims of food poisoning. Infants may be irritable and feed poorly. Neurological signs include confusion, disorientation, visual disturbance, syncope and seizures". I've been told by several Doctors that once knocked out by CO, a person has less tolerance and is more susceptible to a recurrence with the slightest exposure. I hope that by sharing my story that all of you take heed by correcting your CO problems! Mack -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416390#416390 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: UPDATE on C-GYXQ....
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2014
Getting there!! Familiar scheme, but with my own touch.... -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416423#416423 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_746.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2014
From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 601HDS First Flight
I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully flew for the first time.- The plane flew very well and the Corvair-performe d awesome with no surprises.- The only issue I had was my iEFIS only indi cated about 40Kts-airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot hoses crossed; it was not a problem since-I had my iPad with Foreflight to refer to.- As for now,-I am pretty happy!- =0A=0ASteve Sims=0A601HDS=0ACorvair- 2700=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wscribb" <wscribb(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: 601HDS First Flight
Date: Jan 06, 2014
Hello Steve, Major congrats regarding your first flight. Keep all us posted as to your progress through Phase 1. Bill 601XLB 2700 Corvair 90% done and a bunch to go From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sims Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 8:29 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: 601HDS First Flight I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully flew for the first time. The plane flew very well and the Corvair performed awesome with no surprises. The only issue I had was my iEFIS only indicated about 40Kts airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot hoses crossed; it was not a problem since I had my iPad with Foreflight to refer to. As for now, I am pretty happy! Steve Sims 601HDS Corvair 2700 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HDS First Flight
From: Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM>
Date: Jan 07, 2014
Congratulations Steve. I have a 601 HDS that I bought from the builder in 20 09 and I love it. I think that the 601 HDS is an under-appreciated design. Regards, Damien Graham N48TK Sent from my iPad > On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:29 PM, Steve Sims wrote: > > I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully fle w for the first time. The plane flew very well and the Corvair performed aw esome with no surprises. The only issue I had was my iEFIS only indicated a bout 40Kts airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot hoses crossed; it was no t a problem since I had my iPad with Foreflight to refer to. As for now, I a m pretty happy! > > Steve Sims > 601HDS > Corvair 2700 > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/06/14
From: Rich <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 07, 2014
Absolutely awesome! I hope to be there some time this summer! Happy skies! - Rich On Jan 7, 2014, at 2:01 AM, Zenith601-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-01-06&Archive=Zenith601 > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-01-06&Archive=Zenith601 > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith601-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 01/06/14: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 08:29 PM - 601HDS First Flight (Steve Sims) > 2. 08:36 PM - Re: 601HDS First Flight (wscribb) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: Steve Sims <zenoah(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Zenith601-List: 601HDS First Flight > > I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully flew > for the first time.- The plane flew very well and the Corvair-performe > d awesome with no surprises.- The only issue I had was my iEFIS only indi > cated about 40Kts-airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot hoses crossed; > it was not a problem since-I had my iPad with Foreflight to refer to.- > As for now,-I am pretty happy!- =0A=0ASteve Sims=0A601HDS=0ACorvair- > 2700=0A > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > From: "wscribb" <wscribb(at)centurytel.net> > Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: 601HDS First Flight > > Hello Steve, > > > Major congrats regarding your first flight. Keep all us posted as to your > progress through Phase 1. > > > Bill > > 601XLB > > 2700 Corvair > > 90% done and a bunch to go > > > From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sims > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 8:29 PM > Subject: Zenith601-List: 601HDS First Flight > > > I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully flew > for the first time. The plane flew very well and the Corvair performed > awesome with no surprises. The only issue I had was my iEFIS only indicated > about 40Kts airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot hoses crossed; it was > not a problem since I had my iPad with Foreflight to refer to. As for now, > I am pretty happy! > > > Steve Sims > > 601HDS > > Corvair 2700 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2014
Subject: Re: 601HDS First Flight
From: Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com>
AWESOME!!! Congratulations!!! Ain't no feeling like it!!! Rick On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Steve Sims wrote: > I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully > flew for the first time. The plane flew very well and the > Corvair performed awesome with no surprises. The only issue I had was my > iEFIS only indicated about 40Kts airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot > hoses crossed; it was not a problem since I had my iPad with Foreflight to > refer to. As for now, I am pretty happy! > > Steve Sims > 601HDS > Corvair 2700 > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601HDS First Flight
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2014
Major Congrats, Steve! You have made a huge accomplishment. Patrick Hoyt N63PZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416667#416667 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2014
Subject: Re: 601HDS First Flight
Congratulations, Steve - any pictures you can share ? Blue skies Carlos CH601-HD, plans Working on forward fuse and some canopy parts On 6 January 2014 23:29, Steve Sims wrote: > I'm very happy to report that yesterday, 5 Jan 2014 N601A successfully > flew for the first time. The plane flew very well and the > Corvair performed awesome with no surprises. The only issue I had was my > iEFIS only indicated about 40Kts airspeed so I think I have the AOA/pitot > hoses crossed; it was not a problem since I had my iPad with Foreflight to > refer to. As for now, I am pretty happy! > > Steve Sims > 601HDS > Corvair 2700 > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jab 3300 LCH installation in 601/650
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Jan 17, 2014
Hi Has anyone done an installation of Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for Jab3300 in a 601/650? I have bought a set and wanted to install it on my Jab 3300. Wanting to talk with anyone who has don it and flying? Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417102#417102 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2014
Subject: Re: Jab 3300 LCH installation in 601/650
From: Bruce Carlson <bcarlson57(at)gmail.com>
Why the liquid cooled heads? Bruce On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 4:54 PM, chris Sinfield wrote: > chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> > > Hi > Has anyone done an installation of Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for Jab3300 > in a 601/650? > > I have bought a set and wanted to install it on my Jab 3300. Wanting to > talk with anyone who has don it and flying? > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417102#417102 > > -- Bruce Carlson, RPh, MD, DABFM Hermiston, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2014
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Step instructions?
I've been looking around but can't locate anything in the builders manual about the construction of the steps. I found the blueprint info back in the canopy section - is it covered in the picture book? Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL www.ilrt66.com "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Step instructions?
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Date: Jan 27, 2014
Steve, On my drawings, dated 08/05. the step details are on drawing 6-G-3, along w ith the main gear details. Jay ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Step instructions?
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Date: Jan 27, 2014
Yep. Found that. I'm searching for picture book (builders guide) instruction s. On Jan 27, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Jay Bannister wrote: > Steve, > > On my drawings, dated 08/05. the step details are on drawing 6-G-3, along w ith the main gear details. > > Jay > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2014
From: kensmith <kensmith(at)springnet1.com>
Subject: Step instructions?
> Steve.... I'll have to look out at the hanger as my pictures are all out there. I believe that there is a section on the steps and dimensions in the book. I'll let you know in a day or so. I might be able to stop by there tomorrow. Ken > > I've been looking around but can't locate anything in the builders > manual about the construction of the steps. > I found the blueprint info back in the canopy section - is it covered > in the picture book? > > Steve > > Steve Look > Monticello, IL > www.ilrt66.com > "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2014
From: Marcos Varela Sartal <mvarelasartal(at)yahoo.es>
Hi to all,=0AI have an AVMAP EKPIV with Americas database on sold, if someo ne are interested please send me a message.=0ARegards=0AMarcos Varela ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility?
From: "heisan" <justin(at)expertron.co.za>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Hi all, I need to try a new engine on my HDS. Does anybody know which of the zenith engine mounts/firewalls are compatible with the HDS? Thanks, Justin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418707#418707 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility?
Date: Feb 14, 2014
HI Justin, The answer you probably need is what engine would serve your HDS best. There are several, but the question then becomes cost and reliability. I flew behind a Stratus Subaru and found the Subaru to be a great engine for maintaining, cost of parts and reliability. Today, I'd recommend the Ram Performance Subaru (EA81) because it's a gear driven re-drive that has proven itself. There are lots of engines that fit the HDS beautifully, but one has to be concerned about the weight. My Subaru was at a maximum I'd be comfortable with. Some have hung a Corvair which is without re-drive and it sounds superb, but I'd want to check its weight. A Rotax is expensive, period. 0-200s are heavier than I'd be comfortable with. Much more to consider when choosing an engine, but the engine mount is a construct in most cases that depends upon you or your access to talents that involve welding and measuring up for cowl, mufflers and prop positions, which differ from direct drive (non-re-drive) and re-drive engines, belted or geared. There is generally a 7 inch displacement between crank, i.e. mount points for re-drive and none for direct drive. Zenith will point you toward the Rotax and the $22K for an engine and sell you a mount for it too if you ask for $600 or so. There are much less costly ways to go if you consider the engine first. If you need more info, just ask. I'm not an engine guy, but I'm willing to help. Larry McFarland -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of heisan Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 1:19 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility? Hi all, I need to try a new engine on my HDS. Does anybody know which of the zenith engine mounts/firewalls are compatible with the HDS? Thanks, Justin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418707#418707 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)AOL.COM
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Subject: Re: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility?
Hello all, I have a brand new dynoed only NSI - Suburu mounted on a HDS engine mount. Any offers? Regards, John Read CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 2/14/2014 12:19:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, justin(at)expertron.co.za writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "heisan" Hi all, I need to try a new engine on my HDS. Does anybody know which of the zenith engine mounts/firewalls are compatible with the HDS? Thanks, Justin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418707#418707 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility?
From: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
I have been in an XL powered by a 3000cc corvair and it performed awesome. If you have the money ww (flycorvair.com) will build the engine for you, and all the firewall forward cowling and baffles are also available from him for the HDS. His price for the 2700 assembled by him is 7500, and toy will need an additional 1400 for cowling,and 600 for motor mount. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419101#419101 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2014
From: SUE JANNAKOS <gpjann1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility?
What is WW's prive for the new 3000cc Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:06:29 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith 601/701 engine mount compatibility? I have been in an XL powered by a 3000cc corvair and it performed awesome. =C2-If you have the money ww (flycorvair.com) will build the engine for y ou, and all the firewall forward cowling and baffles are also available fro m him for the HDS. =C2-His price for the 2700 assembled by him is 7500, a nd toy will need an additional 1400 for cowling,and 600 for motor mount.

March 27, 2013 - February 21, 2014

Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-au