JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-af
April 30, 2008 - September 29, 2008
>
> Chuck D.
>
>
>>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>>
>>
>> The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
>> they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
>> addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
>> whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
>> read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
>> to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
>> only one groove for the snap ring.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
RE: the amount of grooves on the needle. This is my understanding. The
early simple needles were gradually tapering and as such could be moved
giving a richening or leaning of the mixture. The later needles look to
be 'profiled' that is the diameter change isn't constant with length.
Moving one of these needles by a groove may actually put the mixture out
by a real step change rather than a tweak hence a single groove so it
couldn't be done. Changing the needle jet size achieves the 'tweak'.
Reference the 'profiled' needle. With a carburettor the whole business
of air fuel mixture is a set of compromises, compromises which go along
with the ones that come with our aircraft/propeller combination. There
maybe a couple of speed/rpm setting that are optimum and there maybe a
couple of speed/rpm/mixture settings that are optimum. Generally though
things will always be less than the 'ideal'.
When Jabiru in their wisdom started the 'Economy kit' and profiling
needles there was one element that wasn't included and set the idea up
for failure (this is in my opinion only). As the Jabiru engine is used
in many planes the Aeroplane/propeller combination can be very
different. In the Jabiru planes themselves different props and pitches
(same numbers different pitches with Jabiru props) mean that the idea
mixture requirements will be different. With different airframes
different once again, in some cases and order of magnitude.
So Jabiru produce a needle that runs the engine in cruise on the edge of
too lean for plane X, great, we stick that engine on plane Y, Z, W and
with prop this that or the other and it's not right...why should we be
surprised. Anyhow just my sixpence worth (5 cents?)
We had a strange one in the UK which I can't really understand. It is
around the same issue as I mention above. A Jabiru J400 is built in the
UK with a 3300 engine 'as supplied' (whatever that was at the time)
three and a half years ago. It is flown happily for those three and half
years until one day there's a running problem. Starts in the air and
smacks of carb ice. Pilot circles over large airfield trying to isolate
the problem. Carb ice suspected as problem began when entering a misty
shower. Eventually nothing found and problem seems to go away. Continues
to base. Two days later when flying the problem comes back and nothing
will get rid of it, slight uneven running. Landing out at an airfield we
check the plane over and by manipulating the throttle we can make it run
like a bag of spanners and even stop. We get after the usual fault
finding nothing found, certainly carburettor but what. Discussion with
one of the UK agents engineers of the symptoms and he immediately
suggests the mixture and a new needle jet. Other suggestions are tried
'in case' but it all points to a mixture problem. Eventually I drive
across and get a selection of jets. Drive back and fit the 'next one
up', and bingo as predicted, smooth as silk and I'm soon flying the
plane back to base.
So, my question is why, after 3 1/2 years (300 hrs same prop) does this
problem manifest itself? Wear would richen things up, filters
eliminated. ALL the checks show nothing. Just the jet to fix it......
The agent has been over and given it a dose of looking at and found
nothing else. The jet needle combination has been matched correctly. One
thing that is noted is it's running much cooler so was undoubtedly lean.
But what changed to bring the problem on.
Ideas?
Regards, Clive
List of what was checked
Fuel filter
Air filter
Induction leaks
Carburettor stripped completely and blown through and rebuilt.
Float level
Fuel, the same as another Jab that was flying over the same period
Loads of other stuff I can't remember.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 29 April 2008 16:23
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Float Level
-->
Chuck-
It must be that since your engine and mine, they changed their thinking
on jet needles, and sent mine with only one groove.
I have all three float needles, and I concur with your reading of 1.5 oz
on the "silver-springed" light needle. My "gold-springed" medium needle
scales at between 4-5 oz, and my "black-springed" high needle is in the
plane at this time, so I defer to your reading of 31 oz.
The silver, gold, and black colors are what I observed, and are not
"official" by Bing. They refer to the three needles as "float needle
light" , "float needle medium", and "float needle heavy." I ended up
with all three due to various fartings around with the carb. I'm pretty
sure the number of my main (#220) conforms to the size etched on the
carb, but as Andy said earlier.....
"You may also be unaware that Jabiru went through a phase a few years
back of drilling-out jets to achieve the required mixture, so what was
stamped on the jet wasn't necessarily the size of the hole.....This was
from memory on 2200s before the year 2000, or so, but ask your dealer as
they have factory information (I'm afraid I don't at present). To
compound the issues, my understanding is that the sizes stamped on main
jets don't correspond to the jet diameter, but on needle jets they do!
This means a 2.80 needle jet has a 2.80mm hole, but I'm pretty sure a
255 main jet isn't 2.55mm. I have no clue why this is."
.....that number may or may not be of value.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I am sure I have a needle with several grooves.
> When I replaced the float needle with one that has a stronger built in
> spring (black), I did not readjust the float. The spring in the old
> needle (orange) would compress at 1.5 Oz, while the spring in new
> needle takes 31 Oz to compress (yes 20 times more). This means that
> any compression of the weaker spring would effectively have a higher
> float level. Thus my float may be a bit low. The 255 main is larger
> than what Jabiru now puts in the Bing. SB 18-1 says mine came with a
> 250 but it did not, as the main jet size is scribed in the side of the
> carb body and on the jet itself. Lately they are using a 245 main
> jet. Needle jet sizes can be misleading as the needles used are
> different.
>
> Chuck D.
>
>
>>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>>
>>
>> The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
>> they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
>> addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
>> whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
>> read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
>> to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
>> only one groove for the snap ring.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Maybe the faulty jet or passageways leading up to the jet got a
buildup of varnish or other contaminants over the years, and finally
something dislodged and caused the problem. That's a strange one
alright.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>
>
> So, my question is why, after 3 1/2 years (300 hrs same prop) does
> this
> problem manifest itself? Wear would richen things up, filters
> eliminated. ALL the checks show nothing. Just the jet to fix it......
> The agent has been over and given it a dose of looking at and found
> nothing else. The jet needle combination has been matched
> correctly. One
> thing that is noted is it's running much cooler so was undoubtedly
> lean.
> But what changed to bring the problem on.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Regards, Clive
>
> List of what was checked
> Fuel filter
> Air filter
> Induction leaks
> Carburettor stripped completely and blown through and rebuilt.
> Float level
> Fuel, the same as another Jab that was flying over the same period
> Loads of other stuff I can't remember.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 29 April 2008 16:23
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Float Level
>
> -->
>
> Chuck-
>
> It must be that since your engine and mine, they changed their
> thinking
> on jet needles, and sent mine with only one groove.
> I have all three float needles, and I concur with your reading of
> 1.5 oz
> on the "silver-springed" light needle. My "gold-springed" medium
> needle
> scales at between 4-5 oz, and my "black-springed" high needle is in
> the
> plane at this time, so I defer to your reading of 31 oz.
> The silver, gold, and black colors are what I observed, and are not
> "official" by Bing. They refer to the three needles as "float needle
> light" , "float needle medium", and "float needle heavy." I ended up
> with all three due to various fartings around with the carb. I'm
> pretty
> sure the number of my main (#220) conforms to the size etched on the
> carb, but as Andy said earlier.....
>
> "You may also be unaware that Jabiru went through a phase a few years
> back of drilling-out jets to achieve the required mixture, so what was
> stamped on the jet wasn't necessarily the size of the hole.....This
> was
> from memory on 2200s before the year 2000, or so, but ask your
> dealer as
> they have factory information (I'm afraid I don't at present). To
> compound the issues, my understanding is that the sizes stamped on
> main
> jets don't correspond to the jet diameter, but on needle jets they do!
> This means a 2.80 needle jet has a 2.80mm hole, but I'm pretty sure a
> 255 main jet isn't 2.55mm. I have no clue why this is."
>
> .....that number may or may not be of value.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> I am sure I have a needle with several grooves.
>> When I replaced the float needle with one that has a stronger
>> built in
>
>> spring (black), I did not readjust the float. The spring in the old
>> needle (orange) would compress at 1.5 Oz, while the spring in new
>> needle takes 31 Oz to compress (yes 20 times more). This means that
>> any compression of the weaker spring would effectively have a higher
>> float level. Thus my float may be a bit low. The 255 main is larger
>> than what Jabiru now puts in the Bing. SB 18-1 says mine came with a
>> 250 but it did not, as the main jet size is scribed in the side of
>> the
>
>> carb body and on the jet itself. Lately they are using a 245 main
>> jet. Needle jet sizes can be misleading as the needles used are
>> different.
>>
>> Chuck D.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>>>
>>>
>>> The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
>>> they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
>>> addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
>>> whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
>>> read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
>>> to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
>>> only one groove for the snap ring.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Ron-
Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it
is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the
reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a
larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
Lynn
On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with
> the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I
> changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to
> 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or
> above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
> Ron Smith
> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried simply
drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs on motorcycles
and the results were unpredictable. It might be better to simply buy a
larger main jet from Bing if you feel the need. I've heard you can do it
with flow testing but I figured it wasn't worth the effort.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
> Ron-
> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it is
> .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the reason
> that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a larger
> needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>
> Lynn
>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with the
>> Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I changed the
>> needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to 240. Now my
>> high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or above. My engine is
>> Ser. No. 2030.
>> Ron Smith
>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>> forums.matronics.com_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Thanks for the input, Dave.
I too, was a little wary when I heard folks talk about drilling jets
out, thinking it would be better to buy them and know that the
precision would be better. I've got a metal lathe, and had good
success in drilling my 2.76 needle jet out to a #33 drill size...
0.113". This didn't change my EGT's any (leading me to think the main
needed to be larger) but today I did something else. I was having
trouble getting one of my EGT's below the 1400 F range, and the left
bank was always the hottest. Well today I decided to rotate the carb
as per the suggested manner....top towards the cool side. I had done
this before, but when I recently added air-straightening vanes inside
my air duct (attaches directly to carb) I made sure the carb was
rotated directly vertical. I had flown it for a week or so that way,
and today I decided to try rotating it again. I am quite pleased to
say that this time it worked, and I now have 3 cylinders within about
30 degrees of one another, and one (#3) that is about 70 degrees
colder. I'm ready to live with that, I think. I no longer see the 1400
+ reading on cyl #4, like I had before. Knowing me, I'll probably try
to tweak the rotation a bit and see if #3 and #4 can be brought a bit
closer together.
It was interesting to note that during previous operation at around
2850 rpm, straight and level, my EIS would alarm showing high EGT
spread of over 212 F. I had arbitrarily set this number into the EIS
unit some time ago. Now I don't get that alarm, or see such a large
spread. I wish I could figure a way to precisely control the position
of the carb when rotating it, or doing the rotation from the cabin,
but that's asking for too much. : )
So for the time being, I won't be drilling my main out, or do any
other jet tweaking. I'll just concentrate on trying to fine-tune the
position of the carb.
Maybe what is needed is a cockpit-controlled splitter that will allow
for diverting the mixture toward the hottest cylinder/bank. It
wouldn't need to be much...just a lever-controlled vane positioned in
front of the built-in splitter. This is getting a bit radical, and
I'm hoping that persons with better testing facilities than I (read:
the Jabiru engineers) could do some work on the carb and come up with
a closer cylinder-to-cylinder match of EGT's.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/503+ hrs
On May 4, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>
> Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried
> simply drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs
> on motorcycles and the results were unpredictable. It might be
> better to simply buy a larger main jet from Bing if you feel the
> need. I've heard you can do it with flow testing but I figured it
> wasn't worth the effort.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
>>
>>
>> Ron-
>> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
>> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and
>> it is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to
>> be the reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've
>> gone to a larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine
>>> with the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so
>>> I changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from
>>> 220 to 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65
>>> F or above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
>>> Ron Smith
>>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>>> forums.matronics.com_-
>>> ============================================================ _-
>>> contribution_-
>>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall(at)gotsky.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "JabiruEngine-List Digest Server" <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:57 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08
> *
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 05/04/08: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Float Level (Lynn Matteson)
> 2. 05:39 AM - Re: Float Level (Dave G.)
> 3. 03:25 PM - Re: Float Level (Lynn Matteson)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Ron-
> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it
> is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the
> reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a
> larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>
> Lynn
>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with
>> the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I
>> changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to
>> 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or
>> above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
>> Ron Smith
>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>> forums.matronics.com_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ==========================================================
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried simply
> drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs on motorcycles
> and the results were unpredictable. It might be better to simply buy a
> larger main jet from Bing if you feel the need. I've heard you can do it
> with flow testing but I figured it wasn't worth the effort.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
>>
>> Ron-
>> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
>> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it is
>> .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the
>> reason
>> that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a larger
>> needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with the
>>> Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I changed the
>>> needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to 240. Now my
>>> high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or above. My engine is
>>> Ser. No. 2030.
>>> Ron Smith
>>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>>> forums.matronics.com_-
>>> ============================================================ _-
>>> contribution_-
>>> ==========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Thanks for the input, Dave.
> I too, was a little wary when I heard folks talk about drilling jets
> out, thinking it would be better to buy them and know that the
> precision would be better. I've got a metal lathe, and had good
> success in drilling my 2.76 needle jet out to a #33 drill size...
> 0.113". This didn't change my EGT's any (leading me to think the main
> needed to be larger) but today I did something else. I was having
> trouble getting one of my EGT's below the 1400 F range, and the left
> bank was always the hottest. Well today I decided to rotate the carb
> as per the suggested manner....top towards the cool side. I had done
> this before, but when I recently added air-straightening vanes inside
> my air duct (attaches directly to carb) I made sure the carb was
> rotated directly vertical. I had flown it for a week or so that way,
> and today I decided to try rotating it again. I am quite pleased to
> say that this time it worked, and I now have 3 cylinders within about
> 30 degrees of one another, and one (#3) that is about 70 degrees
> colder. I'm ready to live with that, I think. I no longer see the 1400
> + reading on cyl #4, like I had before. Knowing me, I'll probably try
> to tweak the rotation a bit and see if #3 and #4 can be brought a bit
> closer together.
>
> It was interesting to note that during previous operation at around
> 2850 rpm, straight and level, my EIS would alarm showing high EGT
> spread of over 212 F. I had arbitrarily set this number into the EIS
> unit some time ago. Now I don't get that alarm, or see such a large
> spread. I wish I could figure a way to precisely control the position
> of the carb when rotating it, or doing the rotation from the cabin,
> but that's asking for too much. : )
>
> So for the time being, I won't be drilling my main out, or do any
> other jet tweaking. I'll just concentrate on trying to fine-tune the
> position of the carb.
>
> Maybe what is needed is a cockpit-controlled splitter that will allow
> for diverting the mixture toward the hottest cylinder/bank. It
> wouldn't need to be much...just a lever-controlled vane positioned in
> front of the built-in splitter. This is getting a bit radical, and
> I'm hoping that persons with better testing facilities than I (read:
> the Jabiru engineers) could do some work on the carb and come up with
> a closer cylinder-to-cylinder match of EGT's.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/503+ hrs
>
>
> On May 4, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried
>> simply drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs
>> on motorcycles and the results were unpredictable. It might be
>> better to simply buy a larger main jet from Bing if you feel the
>> need. I've heard you can do it with flow testing but I figured it
>> wasn't worth the effort.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron-
>>> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
>>> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and
>>> it is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to
>>> be the reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've
>>> gone to a larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>>>
>>>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine
>>>> with the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so
>>>> I changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from
>>>> 220 to 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65
>>>> F or above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
>>>> Ron Smith
>>>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>>>> forums.matronics.com_-
>>>> ============================================================ _-
>>>> contribution_-
>>>> ==========================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really want to
know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric mixture. Peak
EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial. What we
need
to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in relation to
fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's BMW motorcycle
BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall(at)gotsky.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really want to
know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric mixture. Peak
EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial. What we
need
to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in relation to
fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's BMW motorcycle
BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall(at)gotsky.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Bob,
I replaced the Bing with a simple throttle body and two injectors. I have a
potentiometer to over ride the ECU if necessary and this was useful when
fixing fuel maps . I am monitoring EGT at #5 and #6. With the present map
settings I have even EGT (about 690degC) at TOC but if I leave the throttle
open and accelerate I see EGT 5 goes to 780degC ie almost 100 deg hotter,
and the engine starts to shake because of uneven power strokes R to L.
I think the problem is caused because there is no intake manifold, only a
1/2L collector. I am building a 3.5L induction manifold using 64MM tube
fittings and will be able to report on that soon.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 2:28 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really
want to know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric
mixture. Peak EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial.
What we need to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in
relation to fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's
BMW motorcycle BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall(at)gotsky.com writes:
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> twists on
family favorites at AOL Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Evening Peter,
Sounds great! Be sure to let us know how things go.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 4:41:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Bob,
I replaced the Bing with a simple throttle body and two injectors. I have a
potentiometer to over ride the ECU if necessary and this was useful when
fixing fuel maps . I am monitoring EGT at #5 and #6. With the present map
settings I have even EGT (about 690degC) at TOC but if I leave the throttle open
and
accelerate I see EGT 5 goes to 780degC ie almost 100 deg hotter, and the
engine starts to shake because of uneven power strokes R to L.
I think the problem is caused because there is no intake manifold, only a
1/2L collector. I am building a 3.5L induction manifold using 64MM tube
fittings and will be able to report on that soon.
Peter
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RONAL SMITH" <ronal22(at)verizon.net> |
Lynn,
I didn't measure the 240 main jet before I put it in, but here are
measurements for the 220 main jet - .078", drill no. 47,
and for the spare 245 main jet - .089", drill no. 43. You could
extrapolate between these two numbers to get a size for the 240 main
jet. I would error on the smaller size, otherwise you could be running
rich. Hope this helps.
Ron Smith, KF IV with Jabiru 2200A engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gelco" <gelco(at)npgcable.com> |
please remove Gaylord Clark from jabiru engine list. GC
----- Original Message -----
From: RONAL SMITH
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:45 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Float Level
Lynn,
I didn't measure the 240 main jet before I put it in, but here are
measurements for the 220 main jet - .078", drill no. 47,
and for the spare 245 main jet - .089", drill no. 43. You could
extrapolate between these two numbers to get a size for the 240 main
jet. I would error on the smaller size, otherwise you could be running
rich. Hope this helps.
Ron Smith, KF IV with Jabiru 2200A engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Thanks, Ron. At the present, I'm pretty happy with the 220, but
warmer ambient temps might have me going larger on the main jet, so
this is valuable info.
Lynn
On May 7, 2008, at 5:45 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
> Lynn,
> I didn't measure the 240 main jet before I put it in, but here are
> measurements for the 220 main jet - .078", drill no. 47,
> and for the spare 245 main jet - .089", drill no. 43. You could
> extrapolate between these two numbers to get a size for the 240
> main jet. I would error on the smaller size, otherwise you could
> be running rich. Hope this helps.
> Ron Smith, KF IV with Jabiru 2200A engine.
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skypics" <skypics234(at)aol.com> |
Main is 255 and a bit too lean change to 260
Needle is 2.76 and a bit too rich change to 2.70
My Jab 2200 is hyd lifter type with 225 main drilled out to a 235 and climb on
the hottest is 1280 F
My needle jet was supposed to be a 2.80, but when Jabiru drilled it they didn't
drill far enough and that left a ridge at the bottom of the hole that was equivalent
to a 2.75. This gave 1425-1450 on the hottest in cruise.
I drilled it the rest of the way with a #33 drill to clean out the ridge. This
gave a 2.80 and the hot EGT in cruise is 1400 F.
John M
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182932#182932
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary & Laura Pennington" <pennington(at)gainusa.com> |
Hello everyone.
I will be building another airplane using the Jabiru 3300 engine. Has anyone
had problems with reliability?
Thanks
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "skypics" <skypics234(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:34 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Float Level
>
> Main is 255 and a bit too lean change to 260
>
> Needle is 2.76 and a bit too rich change to 2.70
>
> My Jab 2200 is hyd lifter type with 225 main drilled out to a 235 and
> climb on the hottest is 1280 F
>
> My needle jet was supposed to be a 2.80, but when Jabiru drilled it they
> didn't drill far enough and that left a ridge at the bottom of the hole
> that was equivalent to a 2.75. This gave 1425-1450 on the hottest in
> cruise.
>
> I drilled it the rest of the way with a #33 drill to clean out the ridge.
> This gave a 2.80 and the hot EGT in cruise is 1400 F.
>
> John M
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182932#182932
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oxygen Analyzer |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Have a look at SB 18 it covers the use of the oxygen sensor. From what I've read
it needs to be a wideband type and heated sensor to use with leaded fuels
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183623#183623
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com |
WE will be out of town until June 26, please hold e mail until our return.
Thanks
Darrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com |
WE will be out of town until June 26, please hold e mail until our return.
Thanks
Darrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com |
WE will be out of town until June 26, please hold e mail until our return.
Thanks
Darrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Engine cooling question? |
Dear Bud,
A couple of months ago we were talking and in our conversation you mentioned something
about adding a piece of aluminum around the bottom edge of the lower cowling
outlet in a Zenith CH601XLif I am not mistaken. With that in mind, do
you have a picture of the installation? And does the addition of that "lip"
change the cooling ability of the Jabiru 3300 FWF cowling and Kit?
I mention this because I am still having some higher CHT temps on the #2 and #4
cylinders than I would like to improve my cooling of the engine. I would be
very interested in what you have found. Thank you for your time and consideration
in this matter.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris
Zentith Zodiac CH601XL Jab 3300 Dynon EFIS Xerion Avionics engine management 204
hours TTEAF
Also 940 hours into Build of a Europa Classic Monowheel A012
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | CHT/EGT wire routing |
How have others have routed and secured their CHT/EGT wires around the
engine? Photos would be especially appreciated. TIA.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CHT/EGT wire routing |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
EGT/Oil temp pressure are hung off the induction pipes under the
barrels, gives you something to tyrap to that's cold and keeps them away
from the exhaust.
CHT cables are run along top of barrels just under heads, looping over
to the top of each one, whole lot under the cooling ducts.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: 10 July 2008 18:15
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT/EGT wire routing
-->
How have others have routed and secured their CHT/EGT wires around the
engine? Photos would be especially appreciated. TIA.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine cooling question? |
| From: | "moorecomp" <moorecomp(at)yahoo.com> |
Something like this in the following SB.
http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/Engine%20Cooling%20JSB016-1.pdf
Cheers,
Craig Moore A&P
Mancelona, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192701#192701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300
Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM ' 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200=BAC (392=B0F)
Continuous Operation 180=BAC (356=B0F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The
green
would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between
356
and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines
had
a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
I studied the Jabiru Engine Instruction and Maintenance Manual carefully
upon receiving my airplane. Jabiru Au has all the manuals on their
site. On page 12 of the Jab Engine Instruction manual it says that the
max continuous CHT temp is 356 F. This appears to me that this is the
top of the "green" values. Max on climbout for 5 min max is 392F or
redline. So it seems to me that yellow is from 356-392F. I try never
to let my cht's operate continuously above the 340's hottest.
The latest revision of the POH for my Jabiru J-250 states that 356-392 F
is in the yellow arc.
Hope this helps,
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
Well said Pete. One of the reasons why I decided to purchase the Jabiru
J-250 with the Jabiru engine as opposed a Rotax powered aircraft is
because I was impressed so much by the Jabiru documentation. Almost all
of my questions regarding the engine were answered by both the I/M
manual and also the installation manual. Even though I have a factory
buile S-LSA I still read the assembly and engine installation manuals
because they had a wealth of additional information. I have owned Rotax
engines for years (with dissappointment.) I was alsways trying to
figure out what fluids I shoud use. I never could find the torque
values when I did work on the Rotax which frustrated me to hell. I had
a big smile on my face when I saw a page with torque values in the
Jabiru Manuals.
My aviation motto has always been if it is not in writing, then it is
heresay. Good documentation signifies a well thought out design and
reproducibility. It also is the basis of future improvements and issued
SB's which I also review.
Reading is a part of flying, fly safe
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jabiru USA
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the
3300 Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM - 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200=BAC (392=B0F)
Continuous Operation 180=BAC (356=B0F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The
green would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area
between 356 and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier
engines had a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Peter,
What can I say?
Thank you very much!!
2008/7/15 Jabiru USA :
> You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300
> Installation Manual says:
>
>
> 4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
>
> *4.1 RPM*
>
> - Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
>
> - Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM ' 3100 RPM
>
> *4.2 Engine Cooling*
>
> Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
>
> Maximum Peak Temperature 200=BAC (392=B0F)
>
> Continuous Operation 180=BAC (356=B0F)
>
>
> That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The gre
en
> would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between 356
> and 392.
>
>
> Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines
> had a max of 347 F.
>
>
> Pete Krotje
>
> Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Iberplanes
> IGL
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 PM
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>
>
> Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
> temperatures.
>
>
> Alberto Martin
> www.iberplanes.es
> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
> Serial: 6-7011
>
> Tail Kit: Finished
> Wings: Not Started
> Fuselage: Ordered
> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran
Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
> Hello Alberto,
> My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930
.
> We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De L
es
> Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, plea
se
> call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
> Thank you,
> Dale Hetrick
> Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>
> Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
> temperatures.
>
>
> Alberto Martin
> www.iberplanes.es
> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
> Serial: 6-7011
>
> Tail Kit: Finished
> Wings: Not Started
> Fuselage: Ordered
> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
===========
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
Hi Pete,
Maybe you know this.. Is the higher allowable CHT on the new engines because
of better materials, or because the construction has changed such that the
reading under the spark plug has changed while the actual temperature is
still the same?
Just wondering..
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jabiru USA
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300
Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM - 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200C (392F)
Continuous Operation 180C (356F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The green
would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between 356
and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines had
a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
The new heads are better engineered and will handle more heat. The JAR22H
engine testing proved it very well - 50 hours at 400 F at full power. No
problems.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hi Pete,
Maybe you know this.. Is the higher allowable CHT on the new engines because
of better materials, or because the construction has changed such that the
reading under the spark plug has changed while the actual temperature is
still the same?
Just wondering..
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jabiru USA
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300
Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM - 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200C (392F)
Continuous Operation 180C (356F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The green
would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between 356
and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines had
a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | October Page, Az. Fly-In |
| From: | "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> |
Ok Guys and Gals,
Here is the important info. You are all invited.
The Flight Design group gets together each October for a fun few days. We will
fly Monument Vally, Lake Powell, Marble Canyon, Grand canyon and Bryce Canyon.
We take ground side trips during the day. We have other aircraft that come and
we would like to invite the Allegro pilots.
It is Oct. 16th Thursday and go home on Oct. 19th Sunday. We always have a great
time. Everyone attending is fun to be with and gets along very well.
We have a special rate at the same place we stayed last year.
Tell them you are with the "CT Group" and the rate is $49 a night. We will arrive
Thursday morning, Oct. 16th. and head home Oct. 19th. Sunday morning.
Best Western Arizona Inn
716 Rim View Dr.
Page, Az.
800-826-2718
928-645-2456
We will fly into the Page airport - KPGA.
We are staying with the Classic FBO and with our group we should get a .30 cent
discount on fuel.
Classic is not the first FBO next to the runway, but the second one behind them.
The Antelope Canyon tour is open if anyone wants. This is a land tour.
I did some checking for those who are interested. We can take a Lake Powell lake
tour by boat..
One is an evening dinner tour. It is 2.5 hours and serves Prime rib or Lasagna.
It cost $87.67 per person.
The other one is a boat tour that last 3 hours and goes through some famous canyons,
the Navajo Tapestry tour. It cost $63.52.
Orrrr we can rent 19" power boats our selves and take them out and explore the
lake and fingers. The cost of the boat is $325 a day (8am-5pm). They hold eight
people and this is only $40 a person.
Any of the boat items they would like a 24 hour notice.
These are only some ideas that I checked on. We don't have to do them and if only
some want to do them that is ok.
You guys are welcome to invite other planes that are not CT's and everyone is welcome.
Find some more LSA's.
_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maint. Rated
Rotax Service Center
(520) 574-1080
[/b]
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194149#194149
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sensenich prop install, 2200 |
| From: | "DanM" <danm(at)gangnailtruss.com> |
Hello all;
I have two questions concerning installation of the Sensenich prop on my Jab 2200;
1.) Since my prop is Sensenich as apposed to a Jabiru prop, do the Belleville washers
have to be used per the Jabiru install instructions?. I read that the washers
are used because the Jab prop is a soft wood. The Sensenich prop instruction
don't call for these washers.
2.) The alternate propeller installation method described by Jabiru for their props
shows the mounting bolts installed in the reverse direction as compared to
the standard assembly method. I would like to install my bolt in the opposite
direction as well. I have a clearance problem with the prop locknut's being
real close the cowling. Installing the bolts reversed will solve the problem.
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194760#194760
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich prop install, 2200 |
> 1.) Since my prop is Sensenich as apposed to a Jabiru prop, do the
> Belleville washers have to be used per the Jabiru install instructions?. I
> read that the washers are used because the Jab prop is a soft wood. The
> Sensenich prop instruction don't call for these washers.
+++ Since the Jab folks are heading to OSH I'll offer what I've done. I am
not an expert so take this FWIW:
When changing from the original Jab prop to a Sensenich about fifty
hours ago I did not use the belleville washers but what the Sensenich
diagram called for. Torque values have held through three checks.
I also have reversed the direction of the bolt/nut with no problems.
CAVU jeff HDS/3300
> 2.) The alternate propeller installation method described by Jabiru for
> their props shows the mounting bolts installed in the reverse direction as
> compared to the standard assembly method. I would like to install my bolt
> in the opposite direction as well. I have a clearance problem with the
> prop locknut's being real close the cowling. Installing the bolts reversed
> will solve the problem.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich prop install, 2200 |
I installed my Sensenich W62HJ46 wood prop as per Sensenich's
instructions, that is, bolts pointing forward, 1 belleville washer
with the cupped side against the plate, followed by the nylon lock nut.
As far as I could determine, the "alternate prop mounting" service
bulletin that came out was for the softer Jabiru-made props. At least
that's what I read into that bulletin, and ignored it for my
Sensenich prop installation.
I think that the reason for the multiple washers was to allow the
washers to flex enough to maintain torque throughout humidity changes
with that softer prop material. I spoke with Pete about this and I'm
pretty certain that it was from him that I got the info needed to
ignore the bulletin in my case. If still in doubt, give him a call or
email him before he heads for Oshkosh. Or try calling Jim at Pacific
Jabiru, as he'll still be there....Pacific time zone and all that.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 4:29 PM, DanM wrote:
>
>
> Hello all;
>
> I have two questions concerning installation of the Sensenich prop
> on my Jab 2200;
>
> 1.) Since my prop is Sensenich as apposed to a Jabiru prop, do the
> Belleville washers have to be used per the Jabiru install
> instructions?. I read that the washers are used because the Jab
> prop is a soft wood. The Sensenich prop instruction don't call for
> these washers.
>
> 2.) The alternate propeller installation method described by Jabiru
> for their props shows the mounting bolts installed in the reverse
> direction as compared to the standard assembly method. I would like
> to install my bolt in the opposite direction as well. I have a
> clearance problem with the prop locknut's being real close the
> cowling. Installing the bolts reversed will solve the problem.
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194760#194760
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET |
i used the Sensenich prop on my 3300 and reversed the bolts ( 3 / 8" )
i also used a crush plate and Castle nuts with safety wire or keyed for safety.
i would not use elastic stops nuts on such a vital part.
i just finished my first conditional and after a year and 65 hrs. the prop was
still in torque range. thats in Florida with 95 degrees and 90% humidity.
Zodiac 601 XL
N131BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter
motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine
would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the
conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor.
After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of
course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the
starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm
now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran
Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Woody Sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
Dale,
I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again
after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old, I
too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than
spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of
e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he
asked me was
did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed holes
drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling air
over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is due
in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens.
My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I
understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to make
sure that I have tried everything else first!
By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
Regards
Woody Sulloway
Trigear Sonex
Jab 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN
immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on
the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that
the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the
engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to
overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via
De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient,
please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, Ive read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
Hello Dale,
No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can arrange
a visit and meal.
My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started the
engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve read tha
t
we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If I get more
info I will published it.
Take care,
Alberto Martin
2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway
> Dale,
> I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again
> after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old
, I
> too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than
> spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of
e
> -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he as
ked
> me was
> did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed hole
s
> drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling
air
> over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is du
e
> in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens.
>
> My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I
> understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to mak
e
> sure that I have tried everything else first!
>
> By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
>
> Regards
>
> Woody Sulloway
> Trigear Sonex
> Jab 3300
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *D.Hetrick
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>
> Hello Alberto,
> Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BC
N
> immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
> the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
> restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion th
at
> the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running th
e
> engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
> resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying
to
> overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
> starter motor.
> Regards,
> Dale
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>
> Hello Dale,
>
> Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturda
y?
> Are you living BCN on sunday?
>
> Let me know.
>
>
> 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
>
>> Hello Alberto,
>> My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
>> 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran
Via
>> De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenie
nt,
>> please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
>> Thank you,
>> Dale Hetrick
>> Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>>
>> Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
>> temperatures.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alberto Martin
>> www.iberplanes.es
>> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
>> Serial: 6-7011
>>
>> Tail Kit: Finished
>> Wings: Not Started
>> Fuselage: Ordered
>> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>
>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Alberto Martin
> <http://www.iberplanes.es>www.iberplanes.es
> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
> Serial: 6-7011
>
> Tail Kit: Finished
> Wings: Not Started
> Fuselage: Ordered
> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because
the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by
hand
propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn
over.
I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the
factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible
to
restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to
activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting
the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two
starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but
they
are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth
strap
from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN
immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion
that
the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running
the
engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is
trying to
overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930.
We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De
Les
Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient,
please
call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com> IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
Woody,
Thanks for the note. It appears that we both have the same starter
motors and the same problem. However, during the build I drilled the
holes that Pete mentioned and still have the problem. In talking with
Pete he said that the Bosch starters have been replaced with
Nippon-Denso's so the factory must be aware of the problem. He also
said that replacement starters were priced at about $685. If we can
find a model number we could start looking for a used replacement. Pete
said that some of the smaller diesels may be using them.
Did you change your alternator?
Regards,
Dale
---- Original Message -----
From: Woody Sulloway
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:52 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot
Dale,
I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start
again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4
years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load
tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I
have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA.
One of the questions he asked me was
did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed
holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed
cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition
inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what
happens.
My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I
understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to
make sure that I have tried everything else first!
By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
Regards
Woody Sulloway
Trigear Sonex
Jab 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight
to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the
starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the
engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached
the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter
motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This,
of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into
the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway,
I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at
about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central"
Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and
max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that
approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by
hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to
turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was
advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would
not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank
it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that
the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an
earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a
separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth
for some improvement.
Peter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter
motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine
would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the
conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor.
After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of
course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the
starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm
now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran
Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
Martin,
Where did you read that we should replace the starter? Folks here is
the US don't seem to be aware of it.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot
Hello Dale,
No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can
arrange a visit and meal.
My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started
the engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve
read that we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If
I get more info I will published it.
Take care,
Alberto Martin
2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway
Dale,
I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start
again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4
years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load
tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I
have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA.
One of the questions he asked me was
did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed
holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed
cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition
inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what
happens.
My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004.
I understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to
make sure that I have tried everything else first!
By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
Regards
Woody Sulloway
Trigear Sonex
Jab 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a
flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the
starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the
engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached
the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter
motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This,
of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into
the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway,
I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What
about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at
about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central"
Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min
and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Ade
Also check for a tight motor when hand propping hot.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Monday, 28 July 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that
approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter <mailto:peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> Harris
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because
the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by
hand
propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn
over.
I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the
factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible
to
restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to
activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting
the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two
starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but
they
are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth
strap
from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN
immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion
that
the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running
the
engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is
trying to
overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930.
We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De
Les
Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient,
please
call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com> IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low
section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don=92t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the
brushes
of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that
approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter <mailto:peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> Harris
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because
the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by
hand
propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn
over.
I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the
factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible
to
restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to
activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting
the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two
starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but
they
are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth
strap
from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN
immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion
that
the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running
the
engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is
trying to
overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930.
We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De
Les
Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient,
please
call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com> IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Jerome,
How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter?
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: J=E9rme Delamare
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V
(low section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don't need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the
brushes of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that
approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this
by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult
to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was
advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would
not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank
it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that
the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an
earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a
separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth
for some improvement.
Peter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight
to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the
starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the
engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached
the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter
motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This,
of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into
the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway,
I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at
about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central"
Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and
max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
The brushes are located between the two bolts head. So, when you ground
the
engine like that : <http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5>
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 (the ground on this picture is the black
wire)
you can avoid voltage drop in the bolts of the starter.
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 16:05
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Jerome,
How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter?
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: J=E9rme Delamare <mailto:jeromedelamare(at)free.fr>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low
section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don=92t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the
brushes
of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that
approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter <mailto:peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> Harris
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because
the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by
hand
propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn
over.
I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the
factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible
to
restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to
activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting
the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two
starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but
they
are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth
strap
from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to
BCN
immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion
that
the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running
the
engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is
trying to
overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
0930.
We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De
Les
Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient,
please
call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com> IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs |
Fellows,
I can't help but think you're chasing a lot of dead ends here. So with
that said and bringing your immediate suspicion to what I'm going to
say, I'll say it anyhow.
Hot starts a problem? This is what I read.
1. When parking for a while, do you open the oil cooler door to allow
hot air to escape? Point nose of a/c into prevailing wind?
2. You must have the hole in each RamDuct just before cylinders 1 and 2
to get some air over the case, onto the starter, and more importantly
onto the coil behind cylinder 5.
3. Epoxy/flox a 3/4 inch "blast tube" to the back of left RamDuct and
have it directed to the coil that is almost hidden behind cylinder 6.
4. Have an Odyssey battery, 625 or 680. Anything else and you're
batting gnats with a toothpick.
5. The reasons behind numbers 2 and 3 above are that the coils in the
3300 tend to break down under heat - then magically become workable
after cooldown. I know, I've had two of them. Replaced both and was
not at all happy with the price, not at all.
It may not be a starter problem. I have the old, old starter (engine
051) and won't replace it until it dies, and with 335 hours on it, it
shows no sign of malaise. That new starter would be nice, Heck, even
the ungraded Bosch would be great, but at the price someone quoted on
here Jabiru must think their customers are made of $$$$.
If anyone find the cross-reference numbers for that starter so I can go
to Kubota or elsewhere and buy one, please post it.
Remember what you paid for the above info...
CAVU jeff HDS/3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Jerome,
>From the photo it appears that you have a completely different starter
motor than mine. The one I have is all black and, I'm told, that it is
manufactured by Bosch. I believe the new ones are Nippon -Denso.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: J=E9rme Delamare
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
The brushes are located between the two bolts head. So, when you
ground the engine like that : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 (the ground
on this picture is the black wire) you can avoid voltage drop in the
bolts of the starter.
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 16:05
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Jerome,
How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter?
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: J=E9rme Delamare
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V
(low section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don't need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the
brushes of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
J=E9rme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try
that approach.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused
because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm
this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very
difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem
but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine.
It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it
would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by
mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that
the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an
earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a
separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth
for some improvement.
Peter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a
flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the
starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the
engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached
the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter
motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This,
of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into
the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway,
I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What
about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at
about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central"
Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and
max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.
com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs |
Thomas,
You have not referred to the most common cause of the problem which is that
the engine gets very tight when it stops because the barrels cool quicker
than the pistons and grip the pistons tight. Hand propping soon after you
shut down will show that some engines (mine) gets so tight it is difficult
to turn over and you cannot "feel" the compression.
I have confirmed this with advice from the factory, they say it is a good
sign for a tight engine.
Consequently although it is good practice to make life easy for the starter,
the problem is not the starter.
As a matter of interest more recent engines with additional cooling fins
have suffered from the reverse problem. On climb out the cooling fins are so
effective that the pistons expand under heat into the well cooled smaller
barrels. We have had an instance when the piston head came off in initial
climb out . These engines should be carefully ground run and maybe due care
with limited throttle for take off during the early run in period.
JMHO.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, 29 July 2008 6:30 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs
Fellows,
I can't help but think you're chasing a lot of dead ends here. So with that
said and bringing your immediate suspicion to what I'm going to say, I'll
say it anyhow.
Hot starts a problem? This is what I read.
1. When parking for a while, do you open the oil cooler door to allow hot
air to escape? Point nose of a/c into prevailing wind?
2. You must have the hole in each RamDuct just before cylinders 1 and 2 to
get some air over the case, onto the starter, and more importantly onto the
coil behind cylinder 5.
3. Epoxy/flox a 3/4 inch "blast tube" to the back of left RamDuct and have
it directed to the coil that is almost hidden behind cylinder 6.
4. Have an Odyssey battery, 625 or 680. Anything else and you're batting
gnats with a toothpick.
5. The reasons behind numbers 2 and 3 above are that the coils in the 3300
tend to break down under heat - then magically become workable after
cooldown. I know, I've had two of them. Replaced both and was not at all
happy with the price, not at all.
It may not be a starter problem. I have the old, old starter (engine 051)
and won't replace it until it dies, and with 335 hours on it, it shows no
sign of malaise. That new starter would be nice, Heck, even the ungraded
Bosch would be great, but at the price someone quoted on here Jabiru must
think their customers are made of $$$$.
If anyone find the cross-reference numbers for that starter so I can go to
Kubota or elsewhere and buy one, please post it.
Remember what you paid for the above info...
CAVU jeff HDS/3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
not 100 % sure, but I believe it was on an builder website. I=B4m re-checki
ng
my favorites website and I=B4ll let you know
take care,
Albert Martin
2008/7/28 D.Hetrick
> Martin,
> Where did you read that we should replace the starter? Folks here is the
> US don't seem to be aware of it.
> Thanks,
> Dale
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot
>
> Hello Dale,
>
> No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can arran
ge
> a visit and meal.
>
> My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started the
> engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve read t
hat
> we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If I get more
> info I will published it.
>
> Take care,
>
> Alberto Martin
>
>
> 2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway
>
>> Dale,
>> I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start agai
n
>> after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years ol
d, I
>> too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better tha
n
>> spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple o
f e
>> -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he a
sked
>> me was
>> did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed
>> holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed
>> cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition
>> inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happ
ens.
>>
>> My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I
>> understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to ma
ke
>> sure that I have tried everything else first!
>>
>> By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Woody Sulloway
>> Trigear Sonex
>> Jab 3300
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *D.Hetrick
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>>
>> Hello Alberto,
>> Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to B
CN
>> immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor
on
>> the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not
>> restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion t
hat
>> the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running t
he
>> engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the
>> resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is tryin
g to
>> overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement
>> starter motor.
>> Regards,
>> Dale
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>>
>> Hello Dale,
>>
>> Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
>> saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
>>
>> Let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
>>
>>> Hello Alberto,
>>> My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about
>>> 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran
Via
>>> De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If conveni
ent,
>>> please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
>>> Thank you,
>>> Dale Hetrick
>>> Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Iberplanes IGL
>>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
>>>
>>> Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
>>> temperatures.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alberto Martin
>>> www.iberplanes.es
>>> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
>>> Serial: 6-7011
>>>
>>> Tail Kit: Finished
>>> Wings: Not Started
>>> Fuselage: Ordered
>>> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
/c
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ist" target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngin
e-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>>
>>>
>>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alberto Martin
>> <http://www.iberplanes.es>www.iberplanes.es
>> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
>> Serial: 6-7011
>>
>> Tail Kit: Finished
>> Wings: Not Started
>> Fuselage: Ordered
>> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Alberto Martin
> <http://www.iberplanes.es>www.iberplanes.es
> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Zodiac 601 XL Builder
> Serial: 6-7011
>
> Tail Kit: Finished
> Wings: Not Started
> Fuselage: Ordered
> Engine: Jabiru 3300
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
The later 'silver' starter motors are wound differently and seem capable
of turning the engine over more smartly for a given battery voltage.
Certainly I have both on two different engines and the 'silver' one will
crank the engine over when almost flat, whereas the black one shows a
low battery charge up by stopping the engine from cranking up fast
enough to start. Generally that's a cold day in winter.
The difficulty with a hot start is unlikely to be that however, IMHO.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Iberplanes IGL
Sent: 29 July 2008 14:25
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot
not 100 % sure, but I believe it was on an builder website. I=B4m
re-checking my favorites website and I=B4ll let you know
take care,
Albert Martin
2008/7/28 D.Hetrick
Martin,
Where did you read that we should replace the starter? Folks here is
the US don't seem to be aware of it.
Thanks,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot
Hello Dale,
No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can
arrange a visit and meal.
My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started
the engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve
read that we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If
I get more info I will published it.
Take care,
Alberto Martin
2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway
Dale,
I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start
again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4
years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load
tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I
have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA.
One of the questions he asked me was
did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed
holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed
cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition
inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what
happens.
My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I
understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to
make sure that I have tried everything else first!
By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator.
Regards
Woody Sulloway
Trigear Sonex
Jab 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight
to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the
starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the
engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached
the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter
motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This,
of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into
the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway,
I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about
saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick :
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at
about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central"
Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If
convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL <mailto:iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max
temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist" target="_blank">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a> <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
<http://www.iberplanes.es> www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist" target="_blank">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a> <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
<http://www.iberplanes.es> www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Clive,
I got the response below from Jabiru engine engineer Doug Smith.
It looks as if the barrel nut mod is for another issue and not for the tight
engine.
The tight engine for me is an issue only when the engine stops and the
barrels cool faster than the pistons. When running the tolerances appear to
be OK and it will idle down to 800RPM.
Peter
_____
From: Doug Smith [mailto:dougs(at)jabiru.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Barrel Nuts
Dear Peter,
There is a mod, much as described, which we have informed our engine
specialists about. However, it is not necessary on all, or even many,
engines - it is a fix if a low-hour engine is using excessive oil, has poor
leak-down results, high blow-by etc. It is basically a tolerancing issue -
on some engines the nuts ride slightly up on the radius of the barrel but on
the majority of engines they do not. The mod does not affect the tightness
of the engine. I'd add that it is a very dangerous task to undertake in the
backyard - it is far too easy to over-torque an engine through-bolt which
will result in an engine failure down the track. If it is to be done it
must be done by an approved Jabiru engine man, and it's not worth thinking
about unless the engine has the symptoms mentioned above.
Regards,
Doug Smith
Engineer, Jabiru Aircraft
This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain information
that is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee named
above. It may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient do
not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy or take any action in
reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify the
sender immediately and delete this message. Before opening any attachments,
check them for viruses or defects.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
I was at ST again today and spoke about your case. Roger says it will be
a contribution if not the cause. He said the distortion is amplified by
the heat. I've seen the strange looking strike marks on my brand new
engine. Roger heated a barrel up with a hot air gun and the tightness
came in as he did it. Hardly normal if the tightness is shrinking
barrels. If you can get it done or can do it your self yours would be an
ideal engine to try it on. Imagine free power less fuel consumption.....
I'll be running my modified engine this weekend, I'll ley you know.
BTW what engine do you have in what?
I have a 2200 in a Jabiru and a 3300 in an Esqual.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Peter
Harris
Sent: Wed 30/07/2008 07:34
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: FW: Barrel Nuts
Clive,
I got the response below from Jabiru engine engineer Doug Smith.
It looks as if the barrel nut mod is for another issue and not for the
tight engine.
The tight engine for me is an issue only when the engine stops and the
barrels cool faster than the pistons. When running the tolerances appear
to be OK and it will idle down to 800RPM.
Peter
________________________________
From: Doug Smith [mailto:dougs(at)jabiru.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Barrel Nuts
Dear Peter,
There is a mod, much as described, which we have informed our engine
specialists about. However, it is not necessary on all, or even many,
engines - it is a fix if a low-hour engine is using excessive oil, has
poor leak-down results, high blow-by etc. It is basically a tolerancing
issue - on some engines the nuts ride slightly up on the radius of the
barrel but on the majority of engines they do not. The mod does not
affect the tightness of the engine. I'd add that it is a very dangerous
task to undertake in the backyard - it is far too easy to over-torque an
engine through-bolt which will result in an engine failure down the
track. If it is to be done it must be done by an approved Jabiru engine
man, and it's not worth thinking about unless the engine has the
symptoms mentioned above.
Regards,
Doug Smith
Engineer, Jabiru Aircraft
This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain
information that is confidential and intended only for the use of the
addressee named above. It may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy or
take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in
error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.
Before opening any attachments, check them for viruses or defects.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Thanks For the feedback Clive. Very interesting. Although these engines are
basically good I am not surprised by what I hear from you on this subject.
I will be interested to hear the outcome of your next flight.
I have a 3300 in a Quickie now designated a Q-200.
I have conducted many trials to overcome the tendency to run rich above 2700
and discovered that the carb as supplied is fitted with a large float needle
seat 2.25mm which is released by Bing for use with gravity feed. I got
advice from the Bing engineer in Germany. I tried the Bing recommended 1.5mm
seat and it was too lean but got rich when I started the electric boost pump
ie even the smaller seat was leaking under pressure from two pumps. The carb
power needle was selected by Jabiru to provide a compromise performance
setting using the 2,25 seat. I also noted that EGT varies with engine load.
According to Doug Smith it is intentional by design to run the engines over
rich above 2700 even to use up to 40LPH. That is a conservative way to
protect the engine from burnt valves. I was using 36LPH.
Now I have fitted a single barrel twin injector throttle body (Jenvey) and
can over ride the ECU injector dwell time (mixture) with a potentiometer but
EGT still varies. It is even at top of climb then goes to 10deg variance as
the aircraft accelerates. When the EGT is 100degC or more variance the
engine starts to run rough due to unequal boxing power strokes and I would
not be surprised if this contributes to broken flywheel bolts. The factory
told me they often find the RH side is 100degC hotter (like mine) and they
recommend playing with the scat hose intake.
I blame the lack of a plenum. The carb is fitted direct to a collector which
is very restricted inside. Even the entry is restricted.
I have made a 6 port plenum in fiberglass (pic attached) and hope that this
will improve the fuel/air distribution. Ideally it would be an updraft
design but I don't have the space.
I am getting 170KTS CAS at 3000 ft ( 4mph true) at 3000 RPM WOT. My prop
is a Sterba 55X72" pitch and is a bit over pitched but I think the engine
has more potential and of course it is not really fully run in and is tight.
I suppose the Esqual performance will be close or better than the Q-200.
Good luck with the barrel nut job and I look forward to hearing from you.
Cheers
Peter
Queensland
OZ.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James,
Clive R
Sent: Saturday, 2 August 2008 4:17 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: FW: Barrel Nuts
I was at ST again today and spoke about your case. Roger says it will be a
contribution if not the cause. He said the distortion is amplified by the
heat. I've seen the strange looking strike marks on my brand new engine.
Roger heated a barrel up with a hot air gun and the tightness came in as he
did it. Hardly normal if the tightness is shrinking barrels. If you can get
it done or can do it your self yours would be an ideal engine to try it on.
Imagine free power less fuel consumption.....
I'll be running my modified engine this weekend, I'll ley you know.
BTW what engine do you have in what?
I have a 2200 in a Jabiru and a 3300 in an Esqual.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Peter Harris
Sent: Wed 30/07/2008 07:34
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: FW: Barrel Nuts
Clive,
I got the response below from Jabiru engine engineer Doug Smith.
It looks as if the barrel nut mod is for another issue and not for the tight
engine.
The tight engine for me is an issue only when the engine stops and the
barrels cool faster than the pistons. When running the tolerances appear to
be OK and it will idle down to 800RPM.
Peter
________________________________
From: Doug Smith [mailto:dougs(at)jabiru.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Barrel Nuts
Dear Peter,
There is a mod, much as described, which we have informed our engine
specialists about. However, it is not necessary on all, or even many,
engines - it is a fix if a low-hour engine is using excessive oil, has poor
leak-down results, high blow-by etc. It is basically a tolerancing issue -
on some engines the nuts ride slightly up on the radius of the barrel but on
the majority of engines they do not. The mod does not affect the tightness
of the engine. I'd add that it is a very dangerous task to undertake in the
backyard - it is far too easy to over-torque an engine through-bolt which
will result in an engine failure down the track. If it is to be done it
must be done by an approved Jabiru engine man, and it's not worth thinking
about unless the engine has the symptoms mentioned above.
Regards,
Doug Smith
Engineer, Jabiru Aircraft
This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain information
that is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee named
above. It may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient do
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check them for viruses or defects.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jab 3300 Airbox location |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi all
I am installing the Airbox onto the Zodiac XL firewall. Since I don't have a Jab3300
engine yet and the installation paperwork said to line up the air exit level
with the inlet to the Bing Carb I have a problem.
There are no firewall measurements in the paperwork to locate this airbox? I have
the engine mount and can fit it between that on the RH side, but how far down
from the horizontal stiffener? How exact does it have to be L/R up ?down from
the carb? the DVD is not that clear on measurements.
Pete Is this something that could be added to the 601 FWF paperwork
Thanks
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198997#198997
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gilles St-Pierre <ranchlaseigneurie(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello
i m about to install an early production 8 cyl (Jabiru) no 006 into a Pega
zair 100. It is a replacement for a Lycoming 235 To those who have used
this engine so far...what are your impressions on it
Any comments =2C good or bad will be appreciated. Recommendations equally
welcome
Thanks for your time
gilles
dr gilles st pierre
_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles=2C then you'll love Flexicon=2C a game which
combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jab 3300 Airbox location |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
I'd leave it till you get the engine. I 'mounted' mine three times
before I was happy with it and the layout of the cables etc. It looks
sweet now but it's no where near where it started out. Not an XL
admittedly and that installation maybe more straight forward so
JMHOpinion.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: 16 August 2008 23:10
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jab 3300 Airbox location
-->
Hi all
I am installing the Airbox onto the Zodiac XL firewall. Since I don't
have a Jab3300 engine yet and the installation paperwork said to line up
the air exit level with the inlet to the Bing Carb I have a problem.
There are no firewall measurements in the paperwork to locate this
airbox? I have the engine mount and can fit it between that on the RH
side, but how far down from the horizontal stiffener? How exact does it
have to be L/R up ?down from the carb? the DVD is not that clear on
measurements.
Pete Is this something that could be added to the 601 FWF paperwork
Thanks
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198997#198997
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Jab 3300 Airbox location |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James,
Clive R
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:34 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Jab 3300 Airbox location
I'd leave it till you get the engine. I 'mounted' mine three times
before I was happy with it and the layout of the cables etc. It looks
sweet now but it's no where near where it started out. Not an XL
admittedly and that installation maybe more straight forward so
JMHOpinion.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: 16 August 2008 23:10
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jab 3300 Airbox location
-->
Hi all
I am installing the Airbox onto the Zodiac XL firewall. Since I don't
have a Jab3300 engine yet and the installation paperwork said to line up
the air exit level with the inlet to the Bing Carb I have a problem.
There are no firewall measurements in the paperwork to locate this
airbox? I have the engine mount and can fit it between that on the RH
side, but how far down from the horizontal stiffener? How exact does it
have to be L/R up ?down from the carb? the DVD is not that clear on
measurements.
Pete Is this something that could be added to the 601 FWF paperwork
Thanks
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198997#198997
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Jab 3300 Airbox location |
I agree that you should wait. I have seen several arrangements for all the
stuff that goes on the firewall, but overall it is a tight fit. You will
need to place everything and then assess who it all works together. I'd
suggest not doing one item at a time. Attached is a picture of my air box
on the pilot's (left) side of the airplane during installation of the 3300.
Jeff Davidson
601-HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | CHT ring sensor installation |
Installation of ring-type CHT sensors, which requires cutting away metal to
increase space next to the spark plug, can be a daunting prospect. The
documentation I could find about it wasn't as clear as I would have liked,
so I wrote a detailed article about how I did mine, which includes about
twenty annotated, closeup photos. Those who might be interested can find it
at http://n254mr.com/CHT. (Due to the large number of photos, it may take
awhile to load.) I hope it will be useful to others. Please email me direct
with any suggestions about how it might be improved.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT ring sensor installation |
I didnt want to grind away on my $18K engine so I asked Jabiru Jim. He
gave me the number of a different plug which I dont remember off hand.
Its a smaller size (wrench socket) and works super.....No grinding
required.....
SW
3300A
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon
To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ; jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT ring sensor installation
Installation of ring-type CHT sensors, which requires cutting away
metal to increase space next to the spark plug, can be a daunting
prospect. The documentation I could find about it wasn't as clear as I
would have liked, so I wrote a detailed article about how I did mine,
which includes about twenty annotated, closeup photos. Those who might
be interested can find it at http://n254mr.com/CHT. (Due to the large
number of photos, it may take awhile to load.) I hope it will be useful
to others. Please email me direct with any suggestions about how it
might be improved.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Jan Disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | CHT probe - 2 pictures for you |
Hi Ron Shannon,
What I did Ron was use the hole in-between the two spark plugs to place
a 10/32 screw.
I then drilled a hole 1/8 to slide the probe into, then fasterened it
with the screw.
I called Jabiru here in OZ and they said the hole can be used for this
purpose or was some time ago.
The reason I went this way was that the ring dia. for the sparkplug is
too large and did not fit good in my opinion only.
I did need to remove the rings carefully from the leads which went well
and they do record well also.
Pictures attached.
Pete Disher
kit 30
VH-PDI
OZ
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5367.JPG
IMG_5370.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Jan Disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com> |
Another advantage point Ron is that when one removes sparkplugs your not
getting tangled up with probe wires.
Pete D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CHT probe - 2 pictures for you |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Another good idea Pete, I'm assuming the end of the T/C is what you find
when you cut it out the crimp? Do you do anything to it?
CJ
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
and Jan Disher
Sent: 25 August 2008 09:15
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe - 2 pictures for you
Hi Ron Shannon,
What I did Ron was use the hole in-between the two spark plugs to place
a 10/32 screw.
I then drilled a hole 1/8 to slide the probe into, then fasterened it
with the screw.
I called Jabiru here in OZ and they said the hole can be used for this
purpose or was some time ago.
The reason I went this way was that the ring dia. for the sparkplug is
too large and did not fit good in my opinion only.
I did need to remove the rings carefully from the leads which went well
and they do record well also.
Pictures attached.
Pete Disher
kit 30
VH-PDI
OZ
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5367.JPG
IMG_5370.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Jan Disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe - 2 pictures for you |
No CJ. I just take the ring off the wire and there it is the pair joined
as they should be. I then poke the pair of wires it inio the hole that I
drilled to the depth where the screw will pick it up and hold it in
position, done job, too easy.
Pete D
----- Original Message -----
From: James, Clive R
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:50 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe - 2 pictures for you
Another good idea Pete, I'm assuming the end of the T/C is what you
find when you cut it out the crimp? Do you do anything to it?
CJ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
and Jan Disher
Sent: 25 August 2008 09:15
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe - 2 pictures for you
Hi Ron Shannon,
What I did Ron was use the hole in-between the two spark plugs to
place a 10/32 screw.
I then drilled a hole 1/8 to slide the probe into, then fasterened it
with the screw.
I called Jabiru here in OZ and they said the hole can be used for this
purpose or was some time ago.
The reason I went this way was that the ring dia. for the sparkplug is
too large and did not fit good in my opinion only.
I did need to remove the rings carefully from the leads which went
well and they do record well also.
Pictures attached.
Pete Disher
kit 30
VH-PDI
OZ
You have been sent 2 pictures.
IMG_5367.JPG
IMG_5370.JPG
These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/24/2008 12:15 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
I'm really not trying to start or continue a debate about what mounting
method is best. I was just trying to offer help to those who are mounting
ring sensors on the standard-sized spark plugs.
For those who want to debate the relative virutes of other methods... have
at it.
Ron
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:24 AM, Peter and Jan Disher
wrote:
> Another advantage point Ron is that when one removes sparkplugs your not
> getting tangled up with probe wires.
> Pete D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry and Dee Pritchard" <larryanddee(at)q.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300 |
To: Peter/Jan Disher:
I am having CHT problems too and have worked with the air dams inside
the ram air ducts.My heads have 3 small vertical holes drilled upward
from the bottom that intersect a larger 5/8 inch horizontal hole drilled
from the outside of the head that also intersects the upper cooling
fins. I have installed a tube to draw cooling air from UNDER the head
and dump it over board. I MAY install a cooling air line to the 5/8 dia.
hole to put more air into the head to help with cooling. I am told the
newer head design does not have these extra holes, what s/n I don't
know. I have installed 8mm ring thermocouples under the head bolt above
the spark plugs and found them to be about 50-60 F degrees lower than
the 12mm ring thermocouples under the plugs, be careful with bolt
length! This was NOT a good test. I am also not happy with the fit of
the 12mm rings and the plugs. I am now using large copper washers under
the plugs with the ring thermocouples between the copper and the head. I
also had oil temp problems but seem to be OK now after three oil coolers
and 4 years of work and many failed attempts. I ended up with a Positech
aviation 200003c cooler with a 1 to 3 area ratio. I now have to worry
about low oil temp in the cooler months.
I very much want to see more comments on this problem.
Larry Pritchard, located in Arizona, 100 to 110+ F degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300 |
larry,
consider putting a thermostat in your cooler lines. below 180 deg. it
shunts the oil back to the engine without going thru the cooler. i have
installed one but am not done building yet. others have said it works
well.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry and Dee Pritchard
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300
To: Peter/Jan Disher:
I am having CHT problems too and have worked with the air dams inside
the ram air ducts.My heads have 3 small vertical holes drilled upward
from the bottom that intersect a larger 5/8 inch horizontal hole drilled
from the outside of the head that also intersects the upper cooling
fins. I have installed a tube to draw cooling air from UNDER the head
and dump it over board. I MAY install a cooling air line to the 5/8 dia.
hole to put more air into the head to help with cooling. I am told the
newer head design does not have these extra holes, what s/n I don't
know. I have installed 8mm ring thermocouples under the head bolt above
the spark plugs and found them to be about 50-60 F degrees lower than
the 12mm ring thermocouples under the plugs, be careful with bolt
length! This was NOT a good test. I am also not happy with the fit of
the 12mm rings and the plugs. I am now using large copper washers under
the plugs with the ring thermocouples between the copper and the head. I
also had oil temp problems but seem to be OK now after three oil coolers
and 4 years of work and many failed attempts. I ended up with a Positech
aviation 200003c cooler with a 1 to 3 area ratio. I now have to worry
about low oil temp in the cooler months.
I very much want to see more comments on this problem.
Larry Pritchard, located in Arizona, 100 to 110+ F degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Jan Disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300 |
Hi Larry, I really can't comment at this time for I haven't flown my
bird as yet, also our temp. here in Australia where I live may get to
100 Deg in summer only gets down to about 60 Deg in winter.
People here tell me all different things like the engine will have
heating problems and others tell me I won't, they will be cooling
problems, so really I'm not sure what to expect.
What I have done is allowed ducted cooling air to the sump that I can
control from in the aircraft.
I hope to be flying soon.
Pete D
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry and Dee Pritchard
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300
To: Peter/Jan Disher:
I am having CHT problems too and have worked with the air dams inside
the ram air ducts.My heads have 3 small vertical holes drilled upward
from the bottom that intersect a larger 5/8 inch horizontal hole drilled
from the outside of the head that also intersects the upper cooling
fins. I have installed a tube to draw cooling air from UNDER the head
and dump it over board. I MAY install a cooling air line to the 5/8 dia.
hole to put more air into the head to help with cooling. I am told the
newer head design does not have these extra holes, what s/n I don't
know. I have installed 8mm ring thermocouples under the head bolt above
the spark plugs and found them to be about 50-60 F degrees lower than
the 12mm ring thermocouples under the plugs, be careful with bolt
length! This was NOT a good test. I am also not happy with the fit of
the 12mm rings and the plugs. I am now using large copper washers under
the plugs with the ring thermocouples between the copper and the head. I
also had oil temp problems but seem to be OK now after three oil coolers
and 4 years of work and many failed attempts. I ended up with a Positech
aviation 200003c cooler with a 1 to 3 area ratio. I now have to worry
about low oil temp in the cooler months.
I very much want to see more comments on this problem.
Larry Pritchard, located in Arizona, 100 to 110+ F degrees
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/25/2008 8:48 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300 |
My oil temps in Phoenix reach 224F on climbout in 90+ degree weather. I
have a J-250 and have had the oil cooler flange installed as per service
bulletin with great success
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry and Dee Pritchard
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: cooling cylinder heads s/n 346 3300
To: Peter/Jan Disher:
I am having CHT problems too and have worked with the air dams inside
the ram air ducts.My heads have 3 small vertical holes drilled upward
from the bottom that intersect a larger 5/8 inch horizontal hole drilled
from the outside of the head that also intersects the upper cooling
fins. I have installed a tube to draw cooling air from UNDER the head
and dump it over board. I MAY install a cooling air line to the 5/8 dia.
hole to put more air into the head to help with cooling. I am told the
newer head design does not have these extra holes, what s/n I don't
know. I have installed 8mm ring thermocouples under the head bolt above
the spark plugs and found them to be about 50-60 F degrees lower than
the 12mm ring thermocouples under the plugs, be careful with bolt
length! This was NOT a good test. I am also not happy with the fit of
the 12mm rings and the plugs. I am now using large copper washers under
the plugs with the ring thermocouples between the copper and the head. I
also had oil temp problems but seem to be OK now after three oil coolers
and 4 years of work and many failed attempts. I ended up with a Positech
aviation 200003c cooler with a 1 to 3 area ratio. I now have to worry
about low oil temp in the cooler months.
I very much want to see more comments on this problem.
Larry Pritchard, located in Arizona, 100 to 110+ F degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
| From: | "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Looking at my Engine Mount for a3300 on a 601xl [Supplied by Jab USA] and noticed
the Firewall Attachment Plates are only 0.080 thick on the Upper L/H and both
bottom plates. The upper R/H is 0.125 thick. On the Zenith drawing6-JE-1 it
specifies that all should be 0.125 thick. Has anyone else come across this anomaly
Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1386#201386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harlan Nelson" <Harlan.Nelson(at)COMCAST.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/28/08 |
Please remove my name from the Jabiru Engine-List Digest
Harlan Nelson
----- Original Message -----
From: JabiruEngine-List Digest
Server
To: JabiruEngine-List Digest
List
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:57 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/28/08
*
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Today's Message Index:
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on>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
| From: | "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Here are some pics of the suspect Engine mount
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2269#202269
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2582_303.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2572_725.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2574_235.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
Not sure what the problem is , I suspect just the thickness of the powder
coating and nothing more, it is highly unlikely that someone has use
different thickness materials.
nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Thruster87
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:52 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness?
Here are some pics of the suspect Engine mount
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2269#202269
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2582_303.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2572_725.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2574_235.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
| From: | "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> |
The problem is that the plate should be 0.125" [1/8] thick and they are only 0.080"
[3/64]thick. [ they are painted only] They used the wrong thickness material.Received
an email from Jab USA stating that their welder does not use 0.080".I
wonder where they then got this Engine Mount from? [Rolling Eyes]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2389#202389
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
Looking at my 3300A mount it seems thick. Like .090. Both sides are the
same....
Possibly the botton plates are .060. ????
These mounts should not be powder coated.
Cracks can develop and with powder coatings might not be seen.....
I know many builders do powder coat but Jabiru suggests not....
----- Original Message -----
From: "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness?
>
>
> Not sure what the problem is , I suspect just the thickness of the powder
> coating and nothing more, it is highly unlikely that someone has use
> different thickness materials.
>
> nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Thruster87
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:52 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness?
>
>
>
> Here are some pics of the suspect Engine mount
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2269#202269
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2582_303.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2572_725.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2574_235.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness? |
Your probably right. I was guessing at the thickness.....
I got my mount from Jabiru West.
It looks beefy....
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:37 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Firewall Attachment Plates Thickness?
>
>
> The problem is that the plate should be 0.125" [1/8] thick and they are
> only 0.080" [3/64]thick. [ they are painted only] They used the wrong
> thickness material.Received an email from Jab USA stating that their
> welder does not use 0.080".I wonder where they then got this Engine Mount
> from? [Rolling Eyes]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2389#202389
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi All,
Been monitoring this forum for some time, but I'm now putting the final touches
to my 2200A X-Air H and I need your advice. I'm installing a Grand Rapids EIS
monitor for the 2200 and the Jab manual says to place the EGT probes 100mm from
the exhaust manifold plate. Has anyone else installed this EIS and what distance
did they use for the EGT probes?
Many thanks in advance for your time.
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2560#202560
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
hi ian,
i just installed last week on my 3300. 100mm isnt doable on my engine, i
think uniformity is the key, bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Been monitoring this forum for some time, but I'm now putting the final
> touches to my 2200A X-Air H and I need your advice. I'm installing a
> Grand Rapids EIS monitor for the 2200 and the Jab manual says to place the
> EGT probes 100mm from the exhaust manifold plate. Has anyone else
> installed this EIS and what distance did they use for the EGT probes?
>
> Many thanks in advance for your time.
>
> Ian
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2560#202560
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
I did... I installed the probes 100mm as instructed...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:46 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Been monitoring this forum for some time, but I'm now putting the final
> touches to my 2200A X-Air H and I need your advice. I'm installing a
> Grand Rapids EIS monitor for the 2200 and the Jab manual says to place the
> EGT probes 100mm from the exhaust manifold plate. Has anyone else
> installed this EIS and what distance did they use for the EGT probes?
>
> Many thanks in advance for your time.
>
> Ian
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2560#202560
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Just Highlander 3300 |
| From: | "Gary Weaver" <gweaver(at)nctv.com> |
I have a 3300 on my Highlander, no problems so far. see pictures
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3131#203131
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0010_2_160.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0007_3_135.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic ignition |
modules
I'm at the point where I'm working on the fiberglass air plenums around the
cylinders. I have half in round 6061-T6 to make the tubes. How in the
world do I bend the tubes as pictured on the JabiruUSA web site? All the
tube benders I can find only bend up to 3 eights inch tubing.
Jeff Davidson
601HD/3300A - doing the second 90 percent!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
Pack them full of sand, plug the ends with corks or duct tape and bend them
around a block of wood with a somewhat smaller radius then the target radius
to allow for spring-back. Leave the tubes long during bending to give
yourself something to grasp and then cut to length. The sand keeps them from
collapsing.
-- Craig
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic
ignition modules
I'm at the point where I'm working on the fiberglass air plenums around the
cylinders. I have half in round 6061-T6 to make the tubes. How in the
world do I bend the tubes as pictured on the JabiruUSA web site? All the
tube benders I can find only bend up to 3 eights inch tubing.
Jeff Davidson
601HD/3300A - doing the second 90 percent!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
I have half in round 6061-T6 to make the tubes. How in the world do I
bend the tubes as pictured on the JabiruUSA web site? All the tube
benders I can find only bend up to 3 eights inch tubing.
Jeff,
Since I'm one of the owners of an older 3300 and don't know what JAB
calls for now in innovative tubing bends, can only suggest you take your
half-inch aluminum tubing to a friendly electrical firm, (the smaller
the better might work) and ask them to work some contortions into your
tubing with a conduit bender.
Might be a way...jeff small
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition mo
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
You might be better to start with the softer tubing:
3003 is available from ACS for that application.
I have formed bends by making round plywood discs as formers, a smaller diameter
disc of the same thickness as the tubing, bolted between 2 larger side discs,
prevents the tube collapsing when you make the bend.
Discs easily made with large holesaws.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3345#203345
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition mo
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Jabiru USA told me to glue in PVC water supply pipe. It is working pretty well
so far after 23 hours of flight test.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3348#203348
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_74_119.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_73_586.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stauffer" <mark(at)flylightning.net> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
Jeff,
An option to tubing is 1/2" blue line cold water pipe available from the
aircraft parts department in your local Lowes, Home Depot, Ace etc. You only
need about 2' along with one 90, one 45 degree fitting and some five minute
epoxy. Use a short piece of pipe, the 45 and then a longer piece to blast
air on the right side coil (1,3,5) and then a very short piece, 90 and
another short piece to blast air on the left coil (2,4,6). Use the 5 minute
epoxy to glue it all in. Don't forget to sand all surfaces before gluing
them in.
This is what we use on all of our installations.
If you'd like a picture please e-mail me off-line.
Best regards,
Mark
Mark Stauffer
Production Manager
Arion Aircraft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:52 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic
ignition modules
I'm at the point where I'm working on the fiberglass air plenums around
the cylinders. I have half in round 6061-T6 to make the tubes. How in the
world do I bend the tubes as pictured on the JabiruUSA web site? All the
tube benders I can find only bend up to 3 eights inch tubing.
Jeff Davidson
601HD/3300A - doing the second 90 percent!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
An option to tubing is 1/2" blue line cold water pipe available from the
aircraft parts department in your local Lowes,
Lots of good ideas coming at you Jeff. If you want to get a bit more
complicated, and direct cool air on other electricals, you could do
this. Blast tubes to both coils, both mags, and the regulator. Fed
from NACA vent on bottom of cowl.
tailwind jeff s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stauffer" <mark(at)flylightning.net> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
Jeff,
I've always liked that installation!
Hope all is well with you in PA.
Have a great day!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:58 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: air plenum tube to direct air to the
electronic ignition modules
An option to tubing is 1/2" blue line cold water pipe available from the
aircraft parts department in your local Lowes,
Lots of good ideas coming at you Jeff. If you want to get a bit more
complicated, and direct cool air on other electricals, you could do this.
Blast tubes to both coils, both mags, and the regulator. Fed from NACA vent
on bottom of cowl.
tailwind jeff s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
What a great idea! I wish I had asked for help on some of these things
earlier. I probably wasted (no: used) a lot of time trying to educate
myself that I didn't have to. I actually thought of using other materials
for the tubes myself, but I thought of copper elbows. It turns out that
the1/2 inch copper elbows are a lot bigger than 1/2 inch and were too big
for the 1/2 inch AL tube. And that doesn't even consider how far apart the
two metals are on the galvanic scale. I didn't think of the plastic pipes
probably because I already had some left over 6061 tubing available. I used
it elsewhere for electrical conduit.
Jeff
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: air plenum tube to direct air to the
electronic ignition modules
An option to tubing is 1/2" blue line cold water pipe available from the
aircraft parts department in your local Lowes,
Lots of good ideas coming at you Jeff. If you want to get a bit more
complicated, and direct cool air on other electricals, you could do this.
Blast tubes to both coils, both mags, and the regulator. Fed from NACA vent
on bottom of cowl.
tailwind jeff s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | air plenum tube to direct air to the electronic |
ignition modules
Thanks to all that replied. I got several great ideas. This should be a
fun weekend finishing up a bunch of little stuff!
Jeff Davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Bob, SW and especially Lynn for the washer tip. Do I need to get the tip
of the probe in the middle of the pipe? Because if so, I need around 1/2 inch
of washers to achieve this on my engine? That's quite a lot of washers!
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4234#204234
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
I only put 4 thin washers on each probe...about 1/8" worth. This
didn't center the probe, but got it away from the far side of the pipe.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
waiting for new ignition system
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 14, 2008, at 11:50 AM, ianwilson2 wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bob, SW and especially Lynn for the washer tip. Do I need
> to get the tip of the probe in the middle of the pipe? Because if
> so, I need around 1/2 inch of washers to achieve this on my
> engine? That's quite a lot of washers!
>
> Ian
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4234#204234
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks again, Lynn. I'll get to it tomorrow!
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4447#204447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "083180" <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
Does anyone have the Nippon-Denso or Bosch ( or any other brand that will work)
part number for the 2200 starter motor. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4642#204642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET> |
Hey Barry! Is that you? Take the starter to Creel Tractor, on Palm
Beach Rd. in Fort Myers Kubota uses a lot of similar components. Honda
Industrial uses like accessories, Give me a call when you have a
chance. Bob Haas.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 083180
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Starter Motor
Does anyone have the Nippon-Denso or Bosch ( or any other brand that will
work) part number for the 2200 starter motor. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4642#204642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowlead" <j.t.cowie(at)xoxy.net> |
Just an FYI, Westberg (Westach) makes short tip EGT probes that are about the same
price as the ones supplied from GRT . If you haven't used the supplied probes
GRT has been real good about returning/refunding unused items. Aircraft Spruce
carries the short probes.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/westegt7.php
Dan H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4920#204920
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
I got the short EGT probes from ACS and the tip is almost exactly in the
middle of the exhaust pipe.
Seem to work well.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Jab 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question) |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I recently completed my first oil change at 25 hours. Without the Ryco filters
available from any local auto parts stores, I picked the equivalent Fram filter.
At the same time, I was reviewing some past JabaChat newsletters and they
warned that some equivalent oil filters were causing oil pressure fluctuation
problems. The article did not mention any brand names. I sent an e-mail to
Pete at Jabiru USA asking about this but never heard back.
Has anybody had any problems with other commonly available auto oil filter brands?
I want to know if there are any brands to shy away from.
My post-change oil pressure with the Fram is stable, but did note that it is 6-7
PSI higher than it was before the oil change. This is going from Aeroshell
100 mineral grade to Aeroshell W100.
I had my oil filter debris analyzed by my lab at work. It was primarily small
carbon deposits, some small aluminum pieces, carbon steel fuzz and just a few
bits of very small brass-like material. Overall, it was probably just what is
expected.
Flying is going very well so far and I am up to 30 hours on my 601XL/3300 combination.
I also recently installed a flow divider in front of the carb inlet and
got a marvelous climb-out power boost. I will present more data on this later
after I complete a few more test flights on the cruise effects of this mod.
Let's go flying!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5523#205523
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question) |
Dave, try this:
http://knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html
Rick
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:09 PM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
>
> I recently completed my first oil change at 25 hours. Without the Ryco
> filters available from any local auto parts stores, I picked the equivalent
> Fram filter. At the same time, I was reviewing some past JabaChat
> newsletters and they warned that some equivalent oil filters were causing
> oil pressure fluctuation problems. The article did not mention any brand
> names. I sent an e-mail to Pete at Jabiru USA asking about this but never
> heard back.
>
> Has anybody had any problems with other commonly available auto oil filter
> brands? I want to know if there are any brands to shy away from.
>
> My post-change oil pressure with the Fram is stable, but did note that it
> is 6-7 PSI higher than it was before the oil change. This is going from
> Aeroshell 100 mineral grade to Aeroshell W100.
>
> I had my oil filter debris analyzed by my lab at work. It was primarily
> small carbon deposits, some small aluminum pieces, carbon steel fuzz and
> just a few bits of very small brass-like material. Overall, it was probably
> just what is expected.
>
> Flying is going very well so far and I am up to 30 hours on my 601XL/3300
> combination. I also recently installed a flow divider in front of the carb
> inlet and got a marvelous climb-out power boost. I will present more data
> on this later after I complete a few more test flights on the cruise effects
> of this mod.
>
> Let's go flying!
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
> In Phase I flight test.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5523#205523
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking of,
and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob" <punchy(at)frontiernet.net> |
Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320 engine
for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side and the
electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg when I am
at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine is the
Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold the
company.
Rob
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>
> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking of,
>and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>
>Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>
>Lynn Matteson
>Kitfox IV Speedster
>Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>to fly
>Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>
> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
> engine
> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
> and the
> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
> when I am
> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
> is the
> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
> the
> company.
>
> Rob
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking of,
>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>
>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>> to fly
>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob" <punchy(at)frontiernet.net> |
Yes Jeff and I discussed using my Jabiru as a test bed for his design for
the Jab engine. This was at least 4-5 years ago. He had talked to Jab in
Australia but they weren't interested in helping him so without an actual
Jabiru engine to test it on he was at a stand still. I never got around to
trying it for him and assumed that it was not taken up by the new owners.
He is a really good guy to work with and I was sad to hear that he had
sold.
Rob
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>
>Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
>concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
>Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
>
>
>Lynn Matteson
>Kitfox IV Speedster
>Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>to fly
>Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
>On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
>> engine
>> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
>> and the
>> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
>> when I am
>> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
>> is the
>> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
>> the
>> company.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking of,
>>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>>
>>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>>> to fly
>>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Lynn
I have used the flywheel magnets to trigger a simple electronic ignition
module which earths the Bosch coil but spark is distributed by the rotors.
It is working well and throws a fat spark on 1mm plug gap but there is no
feature to adjust timing.
Do you have adjustable timing with electroair?
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>
> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
> engine
> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
> and the
> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
> when I am
> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
> is the
> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
> the
> company.
>
> Rob
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking of,
>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>
>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>> to fly
>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Michael, who I have dealt with is also a good guy to work with,
returns calls promptly (if indeed he is not right there to answer,
which in most cases he is), and knows the system inside and out, it
seems.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Rob wrote:
>
>
> Yes Jeff and I discussed using my Jabiru as a test bed for his
> design for
> the Jab engine. This was at least 4-5 years ago. He had talked to
> Jab in
> Australia but they weren't interested in helping him so without an
> actual
> Jabiru engine to test it on he was at a stand still. I never got
> around to
> trying it for him and assumed that it was not taken up by the new
> owners.
> He is a really good guy to work with and I was sad to hear that he had
> sold.
>
> Rob
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
>> concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
>> Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>> to fly
>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
>>> engine
>>> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
>>> and the
>>> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
>>> when I am
>>> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
>>> is the
>>> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
>>> the
>>> company.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>>>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>>>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>>>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>>>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly,
>>>> and
>>>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>>>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm
>>>> speaking of,
>>>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger
>>>> wheel.
>>>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting
>>>> myself on
>>>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>>>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>>>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>>>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>>>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>>>
>>>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn Matteson
>>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
>>>> ready
>>>> to fly
>>>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but
>>>> determined to
>>>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Apparently they have automatic timing from zero degrees BTC, to 7
BTC, to the factory (Electroair factory) set 25 degrees BTC. And one
of my units is mechanically set to 30 BTC, then delayed 30 by a
jumper wire, so that in effect both units fire at the same time. This
is necessary because of the proximity of the two magnetic sensors,
which are 30 apart.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
> Lynn
> I have used the flywheel magnets to trigger a simple electronic
> ignition
> module which earths the Bosch coil but spark is distributed by the
> rotors.
> It is working well and throws a fat spark on 1mm plug gap but there
> is no
> feature to adjust timing.
> Do you have adjustable timing with electroair?
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 6:40 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
>
>
>
> Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
> concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
> Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
> to fly
> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
>> engine
>> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
>> and the
>> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
>> when I am
>> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
>> is the
>> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
>> the
>> company.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking
>>> of,
>>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>>
>>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
>>> ready
>>> to fly
>>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but
>>> determined to
>>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Lynn,
When the battery is down a little my flywheel triggered unit tends to kick
back as the electronic ignition will fire at hand prop speed. Your jumper
retard wire would be a definite advantage for starting and also for slow
idle.
I would retain one magneto and fit one electroair.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
Apparently they have automatic timing from zero degrees BTC, to 7
BTC, to the factory (Electroair factory) set 25 degrees BTC. And one
of my units is mechanically set to 30 BTC, then delayed 30 by a
jumper wire, so that in effect both units fire at the same time. This
is necessary because of the proximity of the two magnetic sensors,
which are 30 apart.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
to fly
Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
> Lynn
> I have used the flywheel magnets to trigger a simple electronic
> ignition
> module which earths the Bosch coil but spark is distributed by the
> rotors.
> It is working well and throws a fat spark on 1mm plug gap but there
> is no
> feature to adjust timing.
> Do you have adjustable timing with electroair?
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 6:40 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
>
>
>
> Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
> concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
> Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
> to fly
> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
>> engine
>> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
>> and the
>> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
>> when I am
>> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
>> is the
>> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
>> the
>> company.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly, and
>>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking
>>> of,
>>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger wheel.
>>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting myself on
>>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>>
>>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
>>> ready
>>> to fly
>>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but
>>> determined to
>>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Deutch <ronald_deutch(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/22/08 |
I've using Baldwin 33 which is a good oil filter and rates more highly than the
Fram in testing my Light Plane Maintenance.
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
wrote:
From: JabiruEngine-List Digest Server <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/22/08
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 9:57 AM
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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===============================================
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===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 09/22/08: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:10 AM - 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question) (DaveG601XL)
2. 10:21 AM - Re: 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question) (Richard
Girard)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question)
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
I recently completed my first oil change at 25 hours. Without the Ryco filters
available from any local auto parts stores, I picked the equivalent Fram
filter.
At the same time, I was reviewing some past JabaChat newsletters and they
warned that some equivalent oil filters were causing oil pressure fluctuation
problems. The article did not mention any brand names. I sent an e-mail to
Pete at Jabiru USA asking about this but never heard back.
Has anybody had any problems with other commonly available auto oil filter
brands?
I want to know if there are any brands to shy away from.
My post-change oil pressure with the Fram is stable, but did note that it is
6-7
PSI higher than it was before the oil change. This is going from Aeroshell
100 mineral grade to Aeroshell W100.
I had my oil filter debris analyzed by my lab at work. It was primarily small
carbon deposits, some small aluminum pieces, carbon steel fuzz and just a few
bits of very small brass-like material. Overall, it was probably just what is
expected.
Flying is going very well so far and I am up to 30 hours on my 601XL/3300
combination.
I also recently installed a flow divider in front of the carb inlet and
got a marvelous climb-out power boost. I will present more data on this later
after I complete a few more test flights on the cruise effects of this mod.
Let's go flying!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5523#205523
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 3300 First Oil Change (oil filter question)
Dave, try this:
http://knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html
Rick
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:09 PM, DaveG601XL
wrote:
> david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
>
> I recently completed my first oil change at 25 hours. Without the Ryco
> filters available from any local auto parts stores, I picked the
equivalent
> Fram filter. At the same time, I was reviewing some past JabaChat
> newsletters and they warned that some equivalent oil filters were causing
> oil pressure fluctuation problems. The article did not mention any brand
> names. I sent an e-mail to Pete at Jabiru USA asking about this but never
> heard back.
>
> Has anybody had any problems with other commonly available auto oil filter
> brands? I want to know if there are any brands to shy away from.
>
> My post-change oil pressure with the Fram is stable, but did note that it
> is 6-7 PSI higher than it was before the oil change. This is going from
> Aeroshell 100 mineral grade to Aeroshell W100.
>
> I had my oil filter debris analyzed by my lab at work. It was primarily
> small carbon deposits, some small aluminum pieces, carbon steel fuzz and
> just a few bits of very small brass-like material. Overall, it was
probably
> just what is expected.
>
> Flying is going very well so far and I am up to 30 hours on my 601XL/3300
> combination. I also recently installed a flow divider in front of the
carb
> inlet and got a marvelous climb-out power boost. I will present more data
> on this later after I complete a few more test flights on the cruise
effects
> of this mod.
>
> Let's go flying!
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
> In Phase I flight test.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5523#205523
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/22/08 |
Same here....Baldwin B33, as suggested by Andy Sylvester about a year
ago.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; 3 test
flights today...more to come after some work is done.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Ronald Deutch wrote:
> I've using Baldwin 33 which is a good oil filter and rates more
> highly than the Fram in testing my Light Plane Maintenance.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
The way I understand it, the jumper retard wire is there to provide
30 retard for that controller, because the sensor associated with
that controller is mechanically advanced 30.
Too late for retaining the one Jabiru mag, as I've removed the
associated gears and shafts, and covered the holes. Not too late
**forever**, it would just involve removing the rear gear case cover
and reinstalling one gear and shaft, cap and rotor, but then I'd have
to eat crow, and that stuff doesn't taste too good...I've done that
before. : ) But certainly I'd do that before I'd be stubborn enough
to insist on NOT doing it.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; 3 test
flights today...more to come after some work is done.
On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:04 PM, Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
> When the battery is down a little my flywheel triggered unit tends
> to kick
> back as the electronic ignition will fire at hand prop speed. Your
> jumper
> retard wire would be a definite advantage for starting and also for
> slow
> idle.
> I would retain one magneto and fit one electroair.
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 9:36 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
>
>
>
> Apparently they have automatic timing from zero degrees BTC, to 7
> BTC, to the factory (Electroair factory) set 25 degrees BTC. And one
> of my units is mechanically set to 30 BTC, then delayed 30 by a
> jumper wire, so that in effect both units fire at the same time. This
> is necessary because of the proximity of the two magnetic sensors,
> which are 30 apart.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
> to fly
> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Peter Harris wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn
>> I have used the flywheel magnets to trigger a simple electronic
>> ignition
>> module which earths the Bosch coil but spark is distributed by the
>> rotors.
>> It is working well and throws a fat spark on 1mm plug gap but there
>> is no
>> feature to adjust timing.
>> Do you have adjustable timing with electroair?
>> Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 6:40 AM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: It runs!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff is still involved, at least as far as my installation is
>> concerned. It sounds like he built the trigger wheel for mine, and
>> Michael said he would "become involved" with my project.
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; ready
>> to fly
>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but determined to
>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Rob wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynn, I've been running the Electroair on my KIS with the Lyc O320
>>> engine
>>> for several years now. I still have one original mag on one side
>>> and the
>>> electronic on the other. The Electronic will show up to 40 deg
>>> when I am
>>> at high altitudes and running with the throttle pulled back. Mine
>>> is the
>>> Jeff Rose version and I haven't seen the newer ones since Jeff sold
>>> the
>>> company.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After 7 weeks on the "disabled list" I fired up my rebuilt Jabiru
>>>> 2200 this evening...and it sounded great. I cranked it for a few
>>>> seconds with ignition off, just to be sure that it would NOT start.
>>>> Then I switched the "mags" on and fired her up...what a sweet sound
>>>> after so long silent. The new ignition system worked flawlessly,
>>>> and
>>>> a mag check showed the normal very little drop between the two
>>>> systems. This is the Electroair ignition system that I'm speaking
>>>> of,
>>>> and uses two magnetic sensors aimed at the crankshaft trigger
>>>> wheel.
>>>> So far I'm thrilled with the new system, and with (patting
>>>> myself on
>>>> the back) the way the engine now runs. I'm not saying that it's any
>>>> better than the stock Jabiru ignition system, but a few hours from
>>>> now when I would normally have to check my rotors...what rotors?
>>>> That's a small issue to be sure, but hopefully I'll have piece of
>>>> mind with the new rebuild and the new ignition system.
>>>>
>>>> Test flight comes tomorrow morning.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn Matteson
>>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
>>>> ready
>>>> to fly
>>>> Status: "Condition grounded (not for long, I hope), but
>>>> determined to
>>>> try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/26/2008 3:08:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes:
as suggested by Andy Sylvester about a year
ago.
Greetings all,
Anybody heard what Andy is up to these days?
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Deutch <ronald_deutch(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/26/08 |
Heard he is Brazil working as a beach masseur or some such
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
wrote:
From: JabiruEngine-List Digest Server <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/26/08
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 9:57 AM
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
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in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
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EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
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JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 09/26/08: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Andy Silvester (TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Andy Silvester
In a message dated 9/26/2008 3:08:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes:
as suggested by Andy Sylvester about a year
ago.
Greetings all,
Anybody heard what Andy is up to these days?
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/26/08 |
Andy told me (around February, as I recall) that he was in Brazil,
and still with Jabiru, but in a different capacity than operating his
own dealership.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; 3 test
flights today...more to come after some work is done.
On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:46 AM, Ronald Deutch wrote:
> Heard he is Brazil working as a beach masseur or some such
>
> --- On Sat, 9/27/08, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> From: JabiruEngine-List Digest Server <jabiruengine-
> list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/26/08
> To: "JabiruEngine-List Digest List" digest(at)matronics.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 9:57 AM
>
> * ================================================== Online
> Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================== Today's complete
> JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web
> Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in
> HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
> ASCII version of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed
> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-09-26&Archive=JabiruEngine Text
> Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-09-26&Archive=JabiruEngine
> ================================================ EMail Version of
> Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri
> 09/26/08: 1
> ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's
> Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:47 AM - Andy Silvester
> (TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1
> From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Andy Silvester
> In a message dated 9/26/2008 3:08:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes: as suggested by Andy
> Sylvester about a year ago. Greetings all, Anybody heard what Andy
> is up to these days? Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> Europa N245E - Flying Jabiru 3300 **************Looking for simple
> solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out
> WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
> calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time
to make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the
dreaded spark plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't
like the idea of putting the probe under a head bolt as some have
done, fearing the idea of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper
terminal, so I followed another poster's idea and drilled and tapped
a hole in the head between, and slightly below, the spark plug
locations. Now I find that the temperature readings are quite a bit
above the reported 10 degrees or so difference (from the spark plug
locations) that I have read about for the head bolt locations. I have
looked into this and have decided that the spark plug probes (mine
anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment point...the point
where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if you will,
(and it is NOT the area that actually touches the head)...one-half
inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow that goes past
this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further insulated by
having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even further from
the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe this 1/2"
of separation from the head is enough to place the "business end" of
the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
CHT's of an average of about 275 F, while I now see my CHT's read
about 350-360 F, and up to about 385 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @
80 F ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling
down period after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My
thermocouple attachment point...the business end...is now closer to
the head, and tucked between the head and a fin instead of sticking
up into the airflow, so I can accept the higher readings, especially
when the engine is running so strong now and climbing better than I
recall it doing before the engine breakdown. I might add that each
flight sees lower CHT's as the engine breaks in.
Any comments?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Lynn, can you post a picture of where you placed the probe. Tex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
> When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time to
> make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the dreaded spark
> plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't like the idea of
> putting the probe under a head bolt as some have done, fearing the idea
> of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper terminal, so I followed another
> poster's idea and drilled and tapped a hole in the head between, and
> slightly below, the spark plug locations. Now I find that the temperature
> readings are quite a bit above the reported 10 degrees or so difference
> (from the spark plug locations) that I have read about for the head bolt
> locations. I have looked into this and have decided that the spark plug
> probes (mine anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment
> point...the point where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if
> you will, (and it is NOT the area that actually touches the
> head)...one-half inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow
> that goes past this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further
> insulated by having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even
> further from the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe
> this 1/2" of separation from the head is enough to place the "business
> end" of the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
> CHT's of an average of about 275 F, while I now see my CHT's read about
> 350-360 F, and up to about 385 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @ 80 F
> ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling down period
> after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My thermocouple attachment
> point...the business end...is now closer to the head, and tucked between
> the head and a fin instead of sticking up into the airflow, so I can
> accept the higher readings, especially when the engine is running so
> strong now and climbing better than I recall it doing before the engine
> breakdown. I might add that each flight sees lower CHT's as the engine
> breaks in.
> Any comments?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare leads
right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
anal reporter did/does it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Tex Mantell wrote:
>
>
> Lynn, can you post a picture of where you placed the probe. Tex
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Thanks , great pictures..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
> Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
> area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
> drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
> terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
> them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
> size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
> temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare leads
> right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
> anal reporter did/does it. : )
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Tex Mantell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn, can you post a picture of where you placed the probe. Tex
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Just what is a "#8 stud size, eye terminal." A picture of this would be a
help to me. I have the 3300 and my engine has the small holes. I have not
measured them precisely, but as I remember a 1/8" drill will fit inside. I
also have the Grand Rapids EIS. I have been following your saga with great
interest. Have you checked with GR to see if they might now offer a sensor
that might fit or be more adaptable to the hole?
As you have been experimenting with a small daylight readable screen HP
tablet computer which I have interfaced to the GR EIS. I have programmed
Excel spreadsheet to graphically display the output from the EIS. I will
post pictures of all of this soon. I have also built my own cowling for my
Kitfox 5 and then more recently greatly modified the lower cowl to increase
the exit area and greatly modify the exit lip to hopefully increase the
negative air pressure to further aid cooling. I did this without even
checking the first version after all of the comments regarding cooling. I
will also send pictures of this soon. My engine has yet to run, but in the
next two months I hope to have all together.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:05 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
> area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
> drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
> terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
> them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
> size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
> temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare leads
> right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
> anal reporter did/does it. : )
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
If you go to the hardware store or auto parts store, and look for the
electrical terminals, you will see that there are red, blue and
yellow-colored terminals for wiring. The red ones are for wire sizes
22 to 18, the blue are for 16-14, I believe, and the yellows are for
wire sizes 12 to 10 as I recall. The colors are the colors of the
insulating sleeves that are fitted to the wire entry hole. That seems
to be industry-wide color coding. The other sizing is the size of the
eye, so a #8 stud size will fit over a #8 stud, or a #8 screw will go
through the hole. When I said a "#8 stud size" that means a #8 screw
will bolt the terminal to the head in this case. If you had a large
wire, like a #10 wire, you would look for a #8 (in this case) for the
hole size, but a #10 wire size. There are blade terminals, open eye
terminals, and spade terminals, and possibly others, and this refers
to the shape of the terminal where it makes a mechanical attachment
to whatever you are fastening the wire to.
In the case of your 1/8" hole in your head, that is close to the size
needed to tap it to 8-32. The 8-32 tap calls for a #29 drill for the
tap to work properly. A #29 drill measures .136", so you would want
this size hole in your head to properly tap the hole with an 8-32
tap. If your hole is only 1/8" or .125", you will need to drill to .
136" or the tap will probably break from trying to force it to go
into a hole that is too small. I have not checked with GR, preferring
to just drill to the size needed for the 8-32 tap. Remember, I had no
holes in my head, and needed to drill my own holes. I understand that
some heads are already drilled, and it was Peter Disher's post
regarding the already-drilled heads that led me to try this
thermocouple placement on my heads.
Your interfacing sounds like a great way to record data, Jim...wish I
was more computer oriented, but a pencil and paper work for me,
although I'm sure I miss a LOT of data.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
On Sep 28, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
>
> Just what is a "#8 stud size, eye terminal." A picture of this
> would be a
> help to me. I have the 3300 and my engine has the small holes. I
> have not
> measured them precisely, but as I remember a 1/8" drill will fit
> inside. I
> also have the Grand Rapids EIS. I have been following your saga
> with great
> interest. Have you checked with GR to see if they might now offer
> a sensor
> that might fit or be more adaptable to the hole?
>
> As you have been experimenting with a small daylight readable
> screen HP
> tablet computer which I have interfaced to the GR EIS. I have
> programmed
> Excel spreadsheet to graphically display the output from the EIS.
> I will
> post pictures of all of this soon. I have also built my own
> cowling for my
> Kitfox 5 and then more recently greatly modified the lower cowl to
> increase
> the exit area and greatly modify the exit lip to hopefully increase
> the
> negative air pressure to further aid cooling. I did this without even
> checking the first version after all of the comments regarding
> cooling. I
> will also send pictures of this soon. My engine has yet to run,
> but in the
> next two months I hope to have all together.
>
> Jim Crowder
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:05 AM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>
>>
>> Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
>> area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
>> drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
>> terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
>> them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
>> size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
>> temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare leads
>> right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
>> anal reporter did/does it. : )
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn,
If others want, I will take this thread off line.
I already understood most of what you have related. Just what you were
referring to as the stud and the eye was not clear to me. I am also not
clear on just what and how much remains outside of the hole. I was thinking
you were somehow inserting the crimped portion containing the junction into
the hole. I am now thinking you leave the crimped junction outside of the
hole while threading the screw through the eye or ring of a terminal and
into the hole. Will this not leave the actual sensor junction just above
the head and then therefore depending on the heat transfer from the eye and
terminal to the junction? Does this not leave the actual terminal end and
the enclosed junction to remain in the air just above the head? This seems
to be different than my son's bayonet sensor which as I remember inserts
into a hole in his IO360 on his RV8 which is also about to fly. I have just
spent most of the last two days bucking rivets with him as he finish closing
his wings. We are about to take his plane out to my hangar for a coming
first flight.
I am concerned that if I make use of the holes as you are when making my
first flights, I will not know if my CHT's readings are too high or low.
Since you are further along in this, maybe you will have established the
correct temperature thresholds.
The computer interface has taken me a long time to get working and while it
is nearly there and generally working on my bench, it is not yet complete.
It is another whole discussion which I will share either when I am just a
bit more finished, or as the group has interest. In my post to which you
have replied, I meant to say "as you have been experimenting, I have been
experimenting." You did seem to get my meaning, though.
Jim Crowder
Kitfox 5
3300 Jabiru Engine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:36 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> If you go to the hardware store or auto parts store, and look for the
> electrical terminals, you will see that there are red, blue and
> yellow-colored terminals for wiring. The red ones are for wire sizes
> 22 to 18, the blue are for 16-14, I believe, and the yellows are for
> wire sizes 12 to 10 as I recall. The colors are the colors of the
> insulating sleeves that are fitted to the wire entry hole. That seems
> to be industry-wide color coding. The other sizing is the size of the
> eye, so a #8 stud size will fit over a #8 stud, or a #8 screw will go
> through the hole. When I said a "#8 stud size" that means a #8 screw
> will bolt the terminal to the head in this case. If you had a large
> wire, like a #10 wire, you would look for a #8 (in this case) for the
> hole size, but a #10 wire size. There are blade terminals, open eye
> terminals, and spade terminals, and possibly others, and this refers
> to the shape of the terminal where it makes a mechanical attachment
> to whatever you are fastening the wire to.
>
> In the case of your 1/8" hole in your head, that is close to the size
> needed to tap it to 8-32. The 8-32 tap calls for a #29 drill for the
> tap to work properly. A #29 drill measures .136", so you would want
> this size hole in your head to properly tap the hole with an 8-32
> tap. If your hole is only 1/8" or .125", you will need to drill to .
> 136" or the tap will probably break from trying to force it to go
> into a hole that is too small. I have not checked with GR, preferring
> to just drill to the size needed for the 8-32 tap. Remember, I had no
> holes in my head, and needed to drill my own holes. I understand that
> some heads are already drilled, and it was Peter Disher's post
> regarding the already-drilled heads that led me to try this
> thermocouple placement on my heads.
>
> Your interfacing sounds like a great way to record data, Jim...wish I
> was more computer oriented, but a pencil and paper work for me,
> although I'm sure I miss a LOT of data.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just what is a "#8 stud size, eye terminal." A picture of this
> > would be a
> > help to me. I have the 3300 and my engine has the small holes. I
> > have not
> > measured them precisely, but as I remember a 1/8" drill will fit
> > inside. I
> > also have the Grand Rapids EIS. I have been following your saga
> > with great
> > interest. Have you checked with GR to see if they might now offer
> > a sensor
> > that might fit or be more adaptable to the hole?
> >
> > As you have been experimenting with a small daylight readable
> > screen HP
> > tablet computer which I have interfaced to the GR EIS. I have
> > programmed
> > Excel spreadsheet to graphically display the output from the EIS.
> > I will
> > post pictures of all of this soon. I have also built my own
> > cowling for my
> > Kitfox 5 and then more recently greatly modified the lower cowl to
> > increase
> > the exit area and greatly modify the exit lip to hopefully increase
> > the
> > negative air pressure to further aid cooling. I did this without even
> > checking the first version after all of the comments regarding
> > cooling. I
> > will also send pictures of this soon. My engine has yet to run,
> > but in the
> > next two months I hope to have all together.
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >> Lynn
> >> Matteson
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:05 AM
> >> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
> >>
> >>
> >> Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
> >> area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
> >> drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
> >> terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
> >> them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
> >> size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
> >> temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare leads
> >> right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
> >> anal reporter did/does it. : )
> >>
> >>
> >> Lynn Matteson
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster
> >> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
*does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
factor for my first flight came from.
I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
"normal."
I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
way of temps.
Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
the way I read it.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 28, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
> If others want, I will take this thread off line.
>
> I already understood most of what you have related. Just what you were
> referring to as the stud and the eye was not clear to me. I am
> also not
> clear on just what and how much remains outside of the hole. I was
> thinking
> you were somehow inserting the crimped portion containing the
> junction into
> the hole. I am now thinking you leave the crimped junction
> outside of the
> hole while threading the screw through the eye or ring of a
> terminal and
> into the hole. Will this not leave the actual sensor junction just
> above
> the head and then therefore depending on the heat transfer from the
> eye and
> terminal to the junction? Does this not leave the actual terminal
> end and
> the enclosed junction to remain in the air just above the head?
> This seems
> to be different than my son's bayonet sensor which as I remember
> inserts
> into a hole in his IO360 on his RV8 which is also about to fly. I
> have just
> spent most of the last two days bucking rivets with him as he
> finish closing
> his wings. We are about to take his plane out to my hangar for a
> coming
> first flight.
>
> I am concerned that if I make use of the holes as you are when
> making my
> first flights, I will not know if my CHT's readings are too high or
> low.
> Since you are further along in this, maybe you will have
> established the
> correct temperature thresholds.
>
> The computer interface has taken me a long time to get working and
> while it
> is nearly there and generally working on my bench, it is not yet
> complete.
> It is another whole discussion which I will share either when I am
> just a
> bit more finished, or as the group has interest. In my post to
> which you
> have replied, I meant to say "as you have been experimenting, I
> have been
> experimenting." You did seem to get my meaning, though.
>
> Jim Crowder
> Kitfox 5
> 3300 Jabiru Engine
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:36 PM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you go to the hardware store or auto parts store, and look for the
>> electrical terminals, you will see that there are red, blue and
>> yellow-colored terminals for wiring. The red ones are for wire sizes
>> 22 to 18, the blue are for 16-14, I believe, and the yellows are for
>> wire sizes 12 to 10 as I recall. The colors are the colors of the
>> insulating sleeves that are fitted to the wire entry hole. That seems
>> to be industry-wide color coding. The other sizing is the size of the
>> eye, so a #8 stud size will fit over a #8 stud, or a #8 screw will go
>> through the hole. When I said a "#8 stud size" that means a #8 screw
>> will bolt the terminal to the head in this case. If you had a large
>> wire, like a #10 wire, you would look for a #8 (in this case) for the
>> hole size, but a #10 wire size. There are blade terminals, open eye
>> terminals, and spade terminals, and possibly others, and this refers
>> to the shape of the terminal where it makes a mechanical attachment
>> to whatever you are fastening the wire to.
>>
>> In the case of your 1/8" hole in your head, that is close to the size
>> needed to tap it to 8-32. The 8-32 tap calls for a #29 drill for the
>> tap to work properly. A #29 drill measures .136", so you would want
>> this size hole in your head to properly tap the hole with an 8-32
>> tap. If your hole is only 1/8" or .125", you will need to drill to .
>> 136" or the tap will probably break from trying to force it to go
>> into a hole that is too small. I have not checked with GR, preferring
>> to just drill to the size needed for the 8-32 tap. Remember, I had no
>> holes in my head, and needed to drill my own holes. I understand that
>> some heads are already drilled, and it was Peter Disher's post
>> regarding the already-drilled heads that led me to try this
>> thermocouple placement on my heads.
>>
>> Your interfacing sounds like a great way to record data, Jim...wish I
>> was more computer oriented, but a pencil and paper work for me,
>> although I'm sure I miss a LOT of data.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just what is a "#8 stud size, eye terminal." A picture of this
>>> would be a
>>> help to me. I have the 3300 and my engine has the small holes. I
>>> have not
>>> measured them precisely, but as I remember a 1/8" drill will fit
>>> inside. I
>>> also have the Grand Rapids EIS. I have been following your saga
>>> with great
>>> interest. Have you checked with GR to see if they might now offer
>>> a sensor
>>> that might fit or be more adaptable to the hole?
>>>
>>> As you have been experimenting with a small daylight readable
>>> screen HP
>>> tablet computer which I have interfaced to the GR EIS. I have
>>> programmed
>>> Excel spreadsheet to graphically display the output from the EIS.
>>> I will
>>> post pictures of all of this soon. I have also built my own
>>> cowling for my
>>> Kitfox 5 and then more recently greatly modified the lower cowl to
>>> increase
>>> the exit area and greatly modify the exit lip to hopefully increase
>>> the
>>> negative air pressure to further aid cooling. I did this without
>>> even
>>> checking the first version after all of the comments regarding
>>> cooling. I
>>> will also send pictures of this soon. My engine has yet to run,
>>> but in the
>>> next two months I hope to have all together.
>>>
>>> Jim Crowder
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>> Lynn
>>>> Matteson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:05 AM
>>>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here ya go, Tex. I had to grind a bit off the fins just above the
>>>> area, then level out the little hump, and it was clear sailing to
>>>> drill it and tap it with an 8-32 tap. I just cut the old 12mm
>>>> terminal off the t'couple lead, bared the leads a bit, shrink tubed
>>>> them right up to the bare area and inserted them into a new #8 stud
>>>> size, eye terminal. Where the leads contact each other is where the
>>>> temp reading actually takes place, so be sure to shove the bare
>>>> leads
>>>> right up to the terminal before crimping. At least that's how this
>>>> anal reporter did/does it. : )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynn Matteson
>>>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>>>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Temporarily install a thermocouple under the plug and in your new hole. That
will allow you to build a conversion chart.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn,
I now understand. Unless I am confident of where I am going with this, I am
reluctant to drill into my head as Peter did. Has Peter reported the
temperatures he is getting, or is he not flying yet? I should think your
temperatures would be similar to what others get with the rings under the
head bolts if they allow the sensor to lie flat upon the head. There is a
paste that could also be placed under the terminal that enhances heat
conduction. It is used with heat sinks, etc. I do not know the operating
temperature of it. I just looked at my temperature probes and I could cut
the end portion of the rings so as to remove a horseshoe shaped portion of
the ring and leave a spade like flat remainder that I could easily drill for
a #8 screw. That way I believe I would not need to remove the old terminal
and still get the same result. Did you consider that or were your sensors
different?
I have copied my Excel display screen to a Word document and I will attempt
to post by attaching hereto. On the display you will see the graph with
inserted values except for CHT which were actual values from my GR
instrument with the sensors attached and I had heated them with a heat gun
while held in a cluster by hand. When the snapshot was taken they had
cooled down to below normal operating temperature. They are all displayed
in red as I had set the program to display red when above or below the safe
operational range. If above safe temperature they would also display red.
Yellow is for near high or low and green is for the optimum range. It is
really fun to watch them change colors and move up and down as I apply heat
or remove it. These ranges are set by typing the various numbers into the
spreadsheet at setup. I do not have rate of cooling programmed yet. My
Tablet Computer is very flat and has only a 12" diag. display. In use I
will mount it on my instrument panel and the display I have attached will
take up one half of the display with Vista GPS driven moving chart taking up
the other half. I have tried this in my car and boat and it works nicely.
Note the fuel flow is red as such a flow would indicate a problem. The same
for the cooling rate which is not now truly functional yet. This should
work on any laptop with my software and interface. I have spent way too
much time on this.
I will be interested to see if the attached file goes through. If not I
will send it directly to you.
Jim Crowder
Kitfox 5
Jabiru 3300 engine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:36 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
> portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
> close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
> it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
> the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
> could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
> Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
> List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
> hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
> hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
> to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
> the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
> we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
> because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
> don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
> factor for my first flight came from.
> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
> get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
> thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
> newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
> it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
> that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
> we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
> it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
> ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
> bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
> kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
> around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
> hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
> was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
> probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
> being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
> temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
> began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
> norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
> the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
>
> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
> were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
> my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
> relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
> "normal."
>
> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
> or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
> way of temps.
>
> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
> please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
> is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
> all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
> the way I read it.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
For myself, I thought of that, but it would add another issue to a first
flight and my displays would be confusing with incorrect labeling. It might
be a thing to do later. Anyway, I am hoping someone else will have done
that for me. ;>)
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
> Payne
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
>
>
> Temporarily install a thermocouple under the plug and in your new
> hole. That
> will allow you to build a conversion chart.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Jan Disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Jim, My temperatures are now 1-296F. 2-328, 3-378, 4-348, 5-360, 6-332F
These temps are taxing only, I haven't flowen as yet, still waiting
inspection.
I still have my probes as they are in my post of the 25 aug photos attached.
I had an earlier problem with No 5 at 420F and found that the rubber pipe
joiner on the intake pipe was loose and leaking air.
I do think that the temps might record a little higher where I put them.
I did also remove the "V" plates from on top of cylinder and put them
underneath.
Pete Disher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
> Lynn,
> I now understand. Unless I am confident of where I am going with this, I
> am
> reluctant to drill into my head as Peter did. Has Peter reported the
> temperatures he is getting, or is he not flying yet? I should think your
> temperatures would be similar to what others get with the rings under the
> head bolts if they allow the sensor to lie flat upon the head. There is a
> paste that could also be placed under the terminal that enhances heat
> conduction. It is used with heat sinks, etc. I do not know the operating
> temperature of it. I just looked at my temperature probes and I could cut
> the end portion of the rings so as to remove a horseshoe shaped portion of
> the ring and leave a spade like flat remainder that I could easily drill
> for
> a #8 screw. That way I believe I would not need to remove the old terminal
> and still get the same result. Did you consider that or were your sensors
> different?
>
> I have copied my Excel display screen to a Word document and I will
> attempt
> to post by attaching hereto. On the display you will see the graph with
> inserted values except for CHT which were actual values from my GR
> instrument with the sensors attached and I had heated them with a heat gun
> while held in a cluster by hand. When the snapshot was taken they had
> cooled down to below normal operating temperature. They are all displayed
> in red as I had set the program to display red when above or below the
> safe
> operational range. If above safe temperature they would also display red.
> Yellow is for near high or low and green is for the optimum range. It is
> really fun to watch them change colors and move up and down as I apply
> heat
> or remove it. These ranges are set by typing the various numbers into the
> spreadsheet at setup. I do not have rate of cooling programmed yet. My
> Tablet Computer is very flat and has only a 12" diag. display. In use I
> will mount it on my instrument panel and the display I have attached will
> take up one half of the display with Vista GPS driven moving chart taking
> up
> the other half. I have tried this in my car and boat and it works nicely.
> Note the fuel flow is red as such a flow would indicate a problem. The
> same
> for the cooling rate which is not now truly functional yet. This should
> work on any laptop with my software and interface. I have spent way too
> much time on this.
>
> I will be interested to see if the attached file goes through. If not I
> will send it directly to you.
>
> Jim Crowder
> Kitfox 5
> Jabiru 3300 engine
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:36 PM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
>> portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
>> close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
>> it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
>> the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
>> could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
>> Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
>> List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
>> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
>> hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
>> hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
>> to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
>> the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
>> we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
>> because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
>> don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
>> factor for my first flight came from.
>> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
>> get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
>> thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
>> newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
>> it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
>> that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
>> we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
>> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
>> it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
>> ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
>> bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
>> kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
>> around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
>> hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
>> was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
>> probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
>> being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
>> temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
>> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
>> began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
>> norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
>> the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
>>
>> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
>> were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
>> my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
>> relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
>> "normal."
>>
>> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
>> or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
>> way of temps.
>>
>> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
>> please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
>> is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
>> all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
>> the way I read it.
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1:30 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
| From: | "Terry Phillips" <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net> |
Jim
>From your post I can see that you are well along in developing your own EFIS data
acquisition software. Even so, you may want to take a look at Waiter's program:
http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml
It has been available for several years and is frequently updated. Best of all,
it s free.
I am planning to use it to record all EFIS and EIS data when I get to the flight
test stage.
Terry
--------
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6701#206701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mervin Friesen" <mefriesen(at)mts.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Just a thought Lynn. Do you still have a spark plug ring thermocouple that
you could place on the same cylinder as the newly placed thermocouple?
Reading both temps at the same time should give a good comparison.
Mervin Friesen
Sonex 122 Jab 2200
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: September 28, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
-->
Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped portion
lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as close as a few
thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp it to the surface.
You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off the eye and insert the
crimped portion right into the hole if you could come up with a suitable way
to retain it there. That may be how Peter Disher did his..see the archives
from Aug 25, 2008 from this List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded
this post to you. It
*does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the hole,
then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the hole, then
maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which to insert the
bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to the head, or even
right into it, the more accurate the reading. What we are dealing with here
however is "uncharted waters", in that because no one else has done this, or
reported their findings, we don't know just what the readings should be.
That's where the pucker factor for my first flight came from.
I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better get it
up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was thinking that my
seemingly elevated temps were the result of the newly honed cylinders and
new piston rings causing high friction, but it was the more accurate
readings of the t'couple probe placement that revealed the higher temps. So
what IS the proper temp, now that we have the more accurate
readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but it did
go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the ground. That's
why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost bit me in the butt.
The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I kept it above tree level,
climbing slightly and getting it turned around and landed. When I realized
that the engine didn't feel any hotter than before, I started to realize
that the feel of the engine was the same as before, but the readings were
higher because the probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the
airstream, being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the
actual temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and began
to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the norm....my norm,
instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where the "experimenting"
part comes in. : )
I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps were
running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as my new norm.
It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything relating to airflow,
so I'm accepting the higher readings as being "normal."
I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor, or at
least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the way of temps.
Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and please do
keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this is the kind of
thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share all aspects of Jabiru
engine-related experimentation. At least that's the way I read it.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Amazingly simple, but great idea, Craig...if I hadn't already
committed to the location I have now, I'd do it. Somebody else do it
and let me and the others know. Jim?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 29, 2008, at 12:44 AM, Craig Payne wrote:
>
>
> Temporarily install a thermocouple under the plug and in your new
> hole. That
> will allow you to build a conversion chart.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
I haven't seen a post by Peter since the Aug 25 one....did you get
his post that I forwarded to you, Jim?
I think I would be reluctant to change anything right now too, if I
were you, Jim, being as how you are still under warranty. Being as
how I am way over warranty, and the factory doesn't seem to give two
hoots about even seeing my recent gear breakage (other than the
picture that Pete forwarded to them), or trying to determine why it
would break, I think they would take delight in voiding your warranty
at the mere mention of doing anything other than what is cast in
stone....sorry, I'm not the biggest fan of the Jabiru corp at this
moment.
Cutting the present terminal like you describe sounds like a good way
to go. I didn't consider that because I could see some rust on the
"iron" wire....the probes are two dissimilar wires, iron and
constantan....where the insulation was frayed, and wanted to scrape
the rust clean and re-insulate, so I opted for the new terminal.
Being that your terminals are probably new and ok, I'd do like you
suggested and cut them when you do decide to go ahead and change them.
I got the attachment, but all I see when opening it is: "EMBED
PBrush" (without the quotes) within a rectangular border, and
nothing else. Of course I'm on an eMac so my world of computers
differs from yours, I'm sure. I cannot see some of the stuff that the
IBM world sees.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 29, 2008, at 2:19 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
> Lynn,
> I now understand. Unless I am confident of where I am going with
> this, I am
> reluctant to drill into my head as Peter did. Has Peter reported the
> temperatures he is getting, or is he not flying yet? I should
> think your
> temperatures would be similar to what others get with the rings
> under the
> head bolts if they allow the sensor to lie flat upon the head.
> There is a
> paste that could also be placed under the terminal that enhances heat
> conduction. It is used with heat sinks, etc. I do not know the
> operating
> temperature of it. I just looked at my temperature probes and I
> could cut
> the end portion of the rings so as to remove a horseshoe shaped
> portion of
> the ring and leave a spade like flat remainder that I could easily
> drill for
> a #8 screw. That way I believe I would not need to remove the old
> terminal
> and still get the same result. Did you consider that or were your
> sensors
> different?
>
> I have copied my Excel display screen to a Word document and I will
> attempt
> to post by attaching hereto. On the display you will see the graph
> with
> inserted values except for CHT which were actual values from my GR
> instrument with the sensors attached and I had heated them with a
> heat gun
> while held in a cluster by hand. When the snapshot was taken they had
> cooled down to below normal operating temperature. They are all
> displayed
> in red as I had set the program to display red when above or below
> the safe
> operational range. If above safe temperature they would also
> display red.
> Yellow is for near high or low and green is for the optimum range.
> It is
> really fun to watch them change colors and move up and down as I
> apply heat
> or remove it. These ranges are set by typing the various numbers
> into the
> spreadsheet at setup. I do not have rate of cooling programmed
> yet. My
> Tablet Computer is very flat and has only a 12" diag. display. In
> use I
> will mount it on my instrument panel and the display I have
> attached will
> take up one half of the display with Vista GPS driven moving chart
> taking up
> the other half. I have tried this in my car and boat and it works
> nicely.
> Note the fuel flow is red as such a flow would indicate a problem.
> The same
> for the cooling rate which is not now truly functional yet. This
> should
> work on any laptop with my software and interface. I have spent
> way too
> much time on this.
>
> I will be interested to see if the attached file goes through. If
> not I
> will send it directly to you.
>
> Jim Crowder
> Kitfox 5
> Jabiru 3300 engine
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:36 PM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
>> portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
>> close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
>> it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
>> the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
>> could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
>> Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
>> List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
>> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
>> hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
>> hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
>> to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
>> the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
>> we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
>> because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
>> don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
>> factor for my first flight came from.
>> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
>> get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
>> thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
>> newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
>> it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
>> that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
>> we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
>> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
>> it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
>> ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
>> bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
>> kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
>> around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
>> hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
>> was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
>> probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
>> being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
>> temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
>> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
>> began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
>> norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
>> the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
>>
>> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
>> were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
>> my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
>> relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
>> "normal."
>>
>> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
>> or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
>> way of temps.
>>
>> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
>> please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
>> is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
>> all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
>> the way I read it.
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly
>> so...
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Nope, I replaced all spark plug probes with the #8 electrical ring
terminal, and I don't want to change back now. I'm pretty confident
that the readings I'm getting now are all ok, just nothing to compare
them to at the present. The engine runs fine, climbs well, and
doesn't seem any hotter than before after shut-down, so I'm playing
it by the seat of my pants and assuming everything to be ok.
Just as an aside, I used to install thermocouples on test cars that
we would run in the wind tunnel at Chrysler Proving Grounds. They
were having problems attaching the probes onto exhaust manifolds.
They tried brazing them on, and the braze would pop off...they might
not have gotten a clean job....so they would braze and use high temp
tape to hold them in place. They weren't getting the numbers they
expected, and would discover that the probe wasn't touching the
manifold any longer.
The I started to experiment with a TIG welder, and found that I could
melt a small puddle on the manifold and quickly insert the probe
wires into the molten cast iron and hold it until the puddle
solidified. We never had another issue with them coming off. I also
found the same method to work where they were trying to read the
temperature of the back of the aluminum bell housing on an automatic
transmission. (They were concerned with reducing the heat coming
through the floor mats) Like the manifolds, the t'couples would fall
off when merely taped into position, so I fired up the TIG and melted
a small puddle right where they wanted it, and stuck the probe into
it. Again, the probes never came off.
These probes were iron-constantan, or J type, and chromel-alumel, or
K type. The J's work best up to about 600 F as I recall, and the K's
are best at 600 and above. Our plug/CHT probes are the J type and the
EGT probes are K type.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 29, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Mervin Friesen wrote:
>
>
> Just a thought Lynn. Do you still have a spark plug ring
> thermocouple that
> you could place on the same cylinder as the newly placed thermocouple?
> Reading both temps at the same time should give a good comparison.
>
> Mervin Friesen
> Sonex 122 Jab 2200
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: September 28, 2008 11:36 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
> -->
>
>
> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
> portion
> lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as close
> as a few
> thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp it to the
> surface.
> You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off the eye and
> insert the
> crimped portion right into the hole if you could come up with a
> suitable way
> to retain it there. That may be how Peter Disher did his..see the
> archives
> from Aug 25, 2008 from this List...he has pictures there. I just
> forwarded
> this post to you. It
> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into
> the hole,
> then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the hole,
> then
> maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which to
> insert the
> bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to the head, or
> even
> right into it, the more accurate the reading. What we are dealing
> with here
> however is "uncharted waters", in that because no one else has done
> this, or
> reported their findings, we don't know just what the readings
> should be.
> That's where the pucker factor for my first flight came from.
> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd
> better get it
> up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
> thinking that my
> seemingly elevated temps were the result of the newly honed
> cylinders and
> new piston rings causing high friction, but it was the more accurate
> readings of the t'couple probe placement that revealed the higher
> temps. So
> what IS the proper temp, now that we have the more accurate
> readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F,
> but it did
> go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
> ground. That's
> why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost bit me in
> the butt.
> The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I kept it above tree
> level,
> climbing slightly and getting it turned around and landed. When I
> realized
> that the engine didn't feel any hotter than before, I started to
> realize
> that the feel of the engine was the same as before, but the
> readings were
> higher because the probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up
> into the
> airstream, being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of
> the
> actual temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it
> just the
> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered,
> and began
> to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the norm....my
> norm,
> instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where the
> "experimenting"
> part comes in. : )
>
> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps were
> running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as my
> new norm.
> It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything relating to
> airflow,
> so I'm accepting the higher readings as being "normal."
>
> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet
> sensor, or at
> least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the way of
> temps.
>
> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
> please do
> keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this is the
> kind of
> thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share all aspects
> of Jabiru
> engine-related experimentation. At least that's the way I read it.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly
> so...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn,
Sorry it did not display. It did display on mine when I received it back.
I think it is a Mac related problem--different systems. I will try
something else soon and send it to you directly. I'm about to head out to
my hangar to refit the cowl I just modified again. Then I will move on to
the engine install. Currently it's just hanging there with not much else
done.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:18 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> I haven't seen a post by Peter since the Aug 25 one....did you get
> his post that I forwarded to you, Jim?
> I think I would be reluctant to change anything right now too, if I
> were you, Jim, being as how you are still under warranty. Being as
> how I am way over warranty, and the factory doesn't seem to give two
> hoots about even seeing my recent gear breakage (other than the
> picture that Pete forwarded to them), or trying to determine why it
> would break, I think they would take delight in voiding your warranty
> at the mere mention of doing anything other than what is cast in
> stone....sorry, I'm not the biggest fan of the Jabiru corp at this
> moment.
>
> Cutting the present terminal like you describe sounds like a good way
> to go. I didn't consider that because I could see some rust on the
> "iron" wire....the probes are two dissimilar wires, iron and
> constantan....where the insulation was frayed, and wanted to scrape
> the rust clean and re-insulate, so I opted for the new terminal.
> Being that your terminals are probably new and ok, I'd do like you
> suggested and cut them when you do decide to go ahead and change them.
>
> I got the attachment, but all I see when opening it is: "EMBED
> PBrush" (without the quotes) within a rectangular border, and
> nothing else. Of course I'm on an eMac so my world of computers
> differs from yours, I'm sure. I cannot see some of the stuff that the
> IBM world sees.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 2:19 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
> > Lynn,
> > I now understand. Unless I am confident of where I am going with
> > this, I am
> > reluctant to drill into my head as Peter did. Has Peter reported the
> > temperatures he is getting, or is he not flying yet? I should
> > think your
> > temperatures would be similar to what others get with the rings
> > under the
> > head bolts if they allow the sensor to lie flat upon the head.
> > There is a
> > paste that could also be placed under the terminal that enhances heat
> > conduction. It is used with heat sinks, etc. I do not know the
> > operating
> > temperature of it. I just looked at my temperature probes and I
> > could cut
> > the end portion of the rings so as to remove a horseshoe shaped
> > portion of
> > the ring and leave a spade like flat remainder that I could easily
> > drill for
> > a #8 screw. That way I believe I would not need to remove the old
> > terminal
> > and still get the same result. Did you consider that or were your
> > sensors
> > different?
> >
> > I have copied my Excel display screen to a Word document and I will
> > attempt
> > to post by attaching hereto. On the display you will see the graph
> > with
> > inserted values except for CHT which were actual values from my GR
> > instrument with the sensors attached and I had heated them with a
> > heat gun
> > while held in a cluster by hand. When the snapshot was taken they had
> > cooled down to below normal operating temperature. They are all
> > displayed
> > in red as I had set the program to display red when above or below
> > the safe
> > operational range. If above safe temperature they would also
> > display red.
> > Yellow is for near high or low and green is for the optimum range.
> > It is
> > really fun to watch them change colors and move up and down as I
> > apply heat
> > or remove it. These ranges are set by typing the various numbers
> > into the
> > spreadsheet at setup. I do not have rate of cooling programmed
> > yet. My
> > Tablet Computer is very flat and has only a 12" diag. display. In
> > use I
April 30, 2008 - September 29, 2008
JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-af