JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-ag
September 29, 2008 - January 27, 2009
> > will mount it on my instrument panel and the display I have
> > attached will
> > take up one half of the display with Vista GPS driven moving chart
> > taking up
> > the other half. I have tried this in my car and boat and it works
> > nicely.
> > Note the fuel flow is red as such a flow would indicate a problem.
> > The same
> > for the cooling rate which is not now truly functional yet. This
> > should
> > work on any laptop with my software and interface. I have spent
> > way too
> > much time on this.
> >
> > I will be interested to see if the attached file goes through. If
> > not I
> > will send it directly to you.
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> > Kitfox 5
> > Jabiru 3300 engine
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >> Lynn
> >> Matteson
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:36 PM
> >> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
> >> portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
> >> close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
> >> it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
> >> the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
> >> could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
> >> Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
> >> List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
> >> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
> >> hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
> >> hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
> >> to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
> >> the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
> >> we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
> >> because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
> >> don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
> >> factor for my first flight came from.
> >> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
> >> get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
> >> thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
> >> newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
> >> it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
> >> that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
> >> we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
> >> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
> >> it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
> >> ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
> >> bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
> >> kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
> >> around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
> >> hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
> >> was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
> >> probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
> >> being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
> >> temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
> >> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
> >> began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
> >> norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
> >> the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
> >>
> >> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
> >> were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
> >> my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
> >> relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
> >> "normal."
> >>
> >> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
> >> or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
> >> way of temps.
> >>
> >> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
> >> please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
> >> is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
> >> all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
> >> the way I read it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lynn Matteson
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster
> >> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly
> >> so...
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Pete,
Thanks for your reply. Please keep me updated.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
> and Jan Disher
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:40 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
>
>
> Jim, My temperatures are now 1-296F. 2-328, 3-378, 4-348, 5-360, 6-332F
> These temps are taxing only, I haven't flowen as yet, still waiting
> inspection.
> I still have my probes as they are in my post of the 25 aug
> photos attached.
> I had an earlier problem with No 5 at 420F and found that the rubber pipe
> joiner on the intake pipe was loose and leaking air.
> I do think that the temps might record a little higher where I put them.
> I did also remove the "V" plates from on top of cylinder and put them
> underneath.
>
> Pete Disher
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:19 PM
> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> > Lynn,
> > I now understand. Unless I am confident of where I am going
> with this, I
> > am
> > reluctant to drill into my head as Peter did. Has Peter reported the
> > temperatures he is getting, or is he not flying yet? I should
> think your
> > temperatures would be similar to what others get with the rings
> under the
> > head bolts if they allow the sensor to lie flat upon the head.
> There is a
> > paste that could also be placed under the terminal that enhances heat
> > conduction. It is used with heat sinks, etc. I do not know
> the operating
> > temperature of it. I just looked at my temperature probes and
> I could cut
> > the end portion of the rings so as to remove a horseshoe shaped
> portion of
> > the ring and leave a spade like flat remainder that I could
> easily drill
> > for
> > a #8 screw. That way I believe I would not need to remove the
> old terminal
> > and still get the same result. Did you consider that or were
> your sensors
> > different?
> >
> > I have copied my Excel display screen to a Word document and I will
> > attempt
> > to post by attaching hereto. On the display you will see the graph with
> > inserted values except for CHT which were actual values from my GR
> > instrument with the sensors attached and I had heated them with
> a heat gun
> > while held in a cluster by hand. When the snapshot was taken they had
> > cooled down to below normal operating temperature. They are
> all displayed
> > in red as I had set the program to display red when above or below the
> > safe
> > operational range. If above safe temperature they would also
> display red.
> > Yellow is for near high or low and green is for the optimum
> range. It is
> > really fun to watch them change colors and move up and down as I apply
> > heat
> > or remove it. These ranges are set by typing the various
> numbers into the
> > spreadsheet at setup. I do not have rate of cooling programmed yet. My
> > Tablet Computer is very flat and has only a 12" diag. display. In use I
> > will mount it on my instrument panel and the display I have
> attached will
> > take up one half of the display with Vista GPS driven moving
> chart taking
> > up
> > the other half. I have tried this in my car and boat and it
> works nicely.
> > Note the fuel flow is red as such a flow would indicate a problem. The
> > same
> > for the cooling rate which is not now truly functional yet. This should
> > work on any laptop with my software and interface. I have spent way too
> > much time on this.
> >
> > I will be interested to see if the attached file goes through. If not I
> > will send it directly to you.
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> > Kitfox 5
> > Jabiru 3300 engine
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> >> Matteson
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:36 PM
> >> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I use the hole that I drilled for the screw, and the crimped
> >> portion lays parallel to the head and very close to the surface..as
> >> close as a few thousandths from it....as close as the screw can clamp
> >> it to the surface. You could also do as you say, or suggest, cut off
> >> the eye and insert the crimped portion right into the hole if you
> >> could come up with a suitable way to retain it there. That may be how
> >> Peter Disher did his..see the archives from Aug 25, 2008 from this
> >> List...he has pictures there. I just forwarded this post to you. It
> >> *does* sound like he inserted the bare wires perhaps, right into the
> >> hole, then ran the screw into the hole. I suppose you could tap the
> >> hole, then maybe rout a small groove on one side of the hole in which
> >> to insert the bare wires of the t'couple. In any case, the closer to
> >> the head, or even right into it, the more accurate the reading. What
> >> we are dealing with here however is "uncharted waters", in that
> >> because no one else has done this, or reported their findings, we
> >> don't know just what the readings should be. That's where the pucker
> >> factor for my first flight came from.
> >> I was quick to get the plane off the ground, thinking that I'd better
> >> get it up there and get cooler air flowing over the engine. I was
> >> thinking that my seemingly elevated temps were the result of the
> >> newly honed cylinders and new piston rings causing high friction, but
> >> it was the more accurate readings of the t'couple probe placement
> >> that revealed the higher temps. So what IS the proper temp, now that
> >> we have the more accurate readings....beats me!! Maybe Jabiru knows.
> >> For me, I just tried to keep it below their posted max of 392 F, but
> >> it did go over that once, on the initial startup, running it on the
> >> ground. That's why I quickly got it into the air, and that act almost
> >> bit me in the butt. The tight engine wasn't climbing very well, so I
> >> kept it above tree level, climbing slightly and getting it turned
> >> around and landed. When I realized that the engine didn't feel any
> >> hotter than before, I started to realize that the feel of the engine
> >> was the same as before, but the readings were higher because the
> >> probe was no longer 1/2" away from the head, up into the airstream,
> >> being cooled and giving lower but inaccurate readings of the actual
> >> temp of the head. This is all fine and good if we all do it just the
> >> way Jabiru does it, with the spark plug probes. So I unpuckered, and
> >> began to accept that I would now be seeing 350-380 F as the
> >> norm....my norm, instead of the 275 of before. I guess this is where
> >> the "experimenting" part comes in. : )
> >>
> >> I flew to an airport about 40 miles away today, and my head temps
> >> were running about 358 for the most part, and I've accepted that as
> >> my new norm. It comforts me to know that I haven't changed anything
> >> relating to airflow, so I'm accepting the higher readings as being
> >> "normal."
> >>
> >> I also wish that Jabiru would give us a socket for a bayonet sensor,
> >> or at least report what such a probe placement would reveal in the
> >> way of temps.
> >>
> >> Yes, I kind of read between the lines on your experimenting, and
> >> please do keep *us all* posted on your progress....I'm sure that this
> >> is the kind of thing that this List is meant to do...inform and share
> >> all aspects of Jabiru engine-related experimentation. At least that's
> >> the way I read it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lynn Matteson
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster
> >> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or
> nearly so...
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 1:30 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn,
I have converted the screen shot to an Adobe PDF document and attached it
here. That should work better for everyone.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:18 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> I got the attachment, but all I see when opening it is: "EMBED
> PBrush" (without the quotes) within a rectangular border, and
> nothing else. Of course I'm on an eMac so my world of computers
> differs from yours, I'm sure. I cannot see some of the stuff that the
> IBM world sees.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Terry,
Very interesting. I have written Water but not heard back yet. I sent him
a very brief description of what I had done and asked whether his graphic
screen could be used real time for data display. Mine is set up to display
in red if data is out of limits, yellow if marginal, and green if normal.
If the pilot sees green everything is sweet. Since he is also using Excel,
some combining might be possible.
Thanks.
Jim Crowder
Kitfox 5
Jabiru 3300 install in progress
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry
> Phillips
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:18 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT probe placement
>
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> >From your post I can see that you are well along in developing
> your own EFIS data acquisition software. Even so, you may want to
> take a look at Waiter's program:
>
> http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml
>
> It has been available for several years and is frequently
> updated. Best of all, it s free.
>
> I am planning to use it to record all EFIS and EIS data when I
> get to the flight test stage.
>
> Terry
>
> --------
> Terry Phillips
> Corvallis, MT
> ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
> Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done;
> working on the wings.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6701#206701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Oh yeah, that works like a charm....looks great, too.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 29, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
> Lynn,
> I have converted the screen shot to an Adobe PDF document and
> attached it
> here. That should work better for everyone.
> Jim Crowder
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:18 AM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT probe placement
>>
>>
>>
>> I got the attachment, but all I see when opening it is: "EMBED
>> PBrush" (without the quotes) within a rectangular border, and
>> nothing else. Of course I'm on an eMac so my world of computers
>> differs from yours, I'm sure. I cannot see some of the stuff that the
>> IBM world sees.
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)cimaer.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Andy Silvester |
Yeah, Ron, the Beach Masseur job had to be curtailed when the price of oil
went up and I couldn't afford to buy the oil and pay the customers as well
(Brazilian cane ethanol just isn't the same....)
Actually, I'm currently waiting in sunny UK (well, last weekend was sunny)
for the Brazilian authorities to grant me a business visa to return there
and continue running production for a factory near Rio producing Sport
Planes and also Lancairs. The current production is mainly Jabiru aircraft
and of course engines, and we also provide Jabiru engine support for Brazil.
The company can be seen at www.cimaer.com.br. Anyway, Best Regards to all
Listers who were wondering where I'd gone. Actually, I never left the list
and monitor it most days from wherever I can access the Interweb.
Cheers, Andy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: [jabiruengines] prop pitch-RPM vs carburetor full |
rich relationship
----- Original Message -----
From: Ivan
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:44 PM
Subject: [jabiruengines] prop pitch-RPM vs carburetor full rich
relationship
I have a J-250 3300. I just had my JSB done regarding the prop
mounting. I cant seem to get the prop pitch of the ground adj
Sensenich prop the same as before but not sure if it is a problem
anyway.
I think I have it set a little more pitch than before. I am only
getting 2810 RPM full power climb at 83 KIAS. My cht/egt's seem good.
Since the Bing altitude compensating carburetor needs a certain RPM???
to run full rich on climb, I am wondering if 2810 RPM is good enough
to run full rich? I used to climb out about 2900-2950 as set at the
factory. Cruise is no issue at 2850 with good temps.
As I remember?? I think the lower limit of "full rich" with the Bing is
at 2800 RPM but do not know for sure. If necessary I can decrease the
pitch a bit. Temps will not be an issue now since the winter is here
but I still should make sure I am running full rich on climb.
Thanks
Ivan Brauer
Phoenix, AZ
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Andy Silvester |
Good to hear from you Andy.
Say, would you know any good CHT numbers for Jabiru engines that have
the CHT probe affixed right on the head, rather than under the spark
plug with the sensing end of the thermocouple sticking up into the
cooling airstream? Maybe you've seen the recent thread concerning
this change of placement. If not, I'll bring you up to speed on what
I did.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
> Yeah, Ron, the Beach Masseur job had to be curtailed when the price
> of oil went up and I couldnt afford to buy the oil and pay the
> customers as well (Brazilian cane ethanol just isnt the same....)
>
>
> Actually, Im currently waiting in sunny UK (well, last weekend was
> sunny) for the Brazilian authorities to grant me a business visa to
> return there and continue running production for a factory near Rio
> producing Sport Planes and also Lancairs. The current production is
> mainly Jabiru aircraft and of course engines, and we also provide
> Jabiru engine support for Brazil. The company can be seen at
> www.cimaer.com.br. Anyway, Best Regards to all Listers who were
> wondering where Id gone. Actually, I never left the list and
> monitor it most days from wherever I can access the Interweb.
>
> Cheers, Andy.
>
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | CH701 with Jabiru 2200 |
The following statement was taken from "STOL Updates from Zenith
Aircraft Co." e-mail I received today:
"What made this CH 701 unique was the installed powerplant: a Jabiru
2200...."
It is not clear to me what is so unique, as I and others have been
flying our CH 701s behind a Jabiru 2200 since 2002.
In fact, you can see my CH 701 on ZAC's web site with the note it has a
2200.
Chuck D.
N701TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement |
I did some tests today regarding the CHT probe placements on my
Jabiru 2200 engine. I'm cross-posting this so others can benefit, and
even make assumptions regarding other engines, perhaps. I was
wondering out loud about how the different mounting locations for the
thermocouple probes might affect the readings of the cylinder head
temps. During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
removing the spark plug terminal of course.
First I went up and got some CHT numbers as the basis for comparison.
I noted that cyl. #1 ran 317, 327, and 340 F, during various phases
of flight. Noting these, I then took the probe from cyl #3 and
attached to it a spark plug terminal (12mm), and installed it onto
the spark plug that lives over the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder. I
first removed the spark plug washer like Jabiru says to do, installed
the probe/terminal, then reinstalled the spark plug washer, and
reinstalled the plug. Then went flying again.
Here is how I'll report the numbers....I'll call the new location
(the machine screw termination) CHT, and the spark plug termination,
SP, as In (CHT/SP)
The numbers I got were as follows (with an ambient of 61 F) (drum
roll please)....initial taxiing= (250/220); taxiing further=
(266/230); climbing out= (308/232); further climbing=(321/243);
leveling off (not recorded for how long level)= (330/245); not noted
what attitude, but not climbing=(334/249); climbing again briefly=
(344/248) I noted that the max differential was 96 F, and the
climbing EGT's were in the high 1200's. I didn't have enough hands,
instruments or inclination to record every aspect of the test, but I
got enough to satisfy myself that my new locations for the CHT probes
work, and now I can rest assured that I'm not overheating the engine
as I thought I might when I first started it up with this
configuration. Needless to say, the CHT's now apparently rise more
quickly, and if you're like me, and you've been accustomed to seeing
it rise slowly and only into the low to mid- 200's, the ol' pucker
factor rises just as quickly and the finger gets close to the panic
button, but it's just numbers, and now that I've done some testing,
I'll relax a bit on this subject at least.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn,
I have decided to use the factory holes on my 3300 and surface mount the
sensors using the 8-32 machine screws. Did you use steel, stainless steel,
or aluminum screws? I am thinking maybe aluminum if I can find them. I can
guess what the issues might be.
Jim Crowder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
I used stainless steel socket head cap screws (Allen bolts, as they
are commonly called). I don't think I'll have an issue with them.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:59 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
> I have decided to use the factory holes on my 3300 and surface
> mount the
> sensors using the 8-32 machine screws. Did you use steel,
> stainless steel,
> or aluminum screws? I am thinking maybe aluminum if I can find
> them. I can
> guess what the issues might be.
>
> Jim Crowder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CH701 with Jabiru 2200 |
I was not trying to slam ZAC, it was just interesting to me their use of
"unique" for a 701 with a 2200.
ZAC was extremely helpful and patient with my many questions while
building the 701.
Pete also was also extremely helpful as I figured out how to install the
2200 as well as operate it.
At that time, ZAC felt the higher prop rpm with shorter blades of the
2200 would not be a good match for the 701 and preferred the Rotax 912.
>From early on, I exchanged 701/2200 ideas with builders in England,
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA using the 2200 in a 701.
It is good to see that ZAC now endorses the 2200 for the 701.
Both ZAC and Pete are class acts.
Chuck D.
N701TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement |
Here are some pictures for those interested in pursuing an alternate
location for the CHT probes.
tapping the hole
thermocouple prepared and ready to install
keeping the thermocouple clear of the spark plug socket
I ran some tests with two thermocouples in place...one in new
location, and the other under the spark plug....at one point 96=B0 F
hotter at the "against-the-head" location, as opposed to having the
t'couple up in the airstream. You can't tell how high it sticks up
here, but it does.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Factory tested ?? |
Hello gang,
do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=B4ve removed one
spark plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil to keep it OK for my
long term storage and i=B4ve founded dirty as if the were used. Anyone with
the same case here?
many thanks ,
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Yes, they are tested at the factory. There should have been a tag on
the engine indicating that.
Stan
On Oct 13, 2008, at 10:11 , Iberplanes IGL wrote:
> Hello gang,
>
> do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=B4ve removed
> one spark plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil to keep
> it OK for my long term storage and i=B4ve founded dirty as if the were
> used. Anyone with the same case here?
>
> many thanks ,
>
>
> --
> Alberto Martin
> www.iberplanes.es
> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnDRead(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Mine came with a red tag indicating it had been run and was drained of oil.
I also got a test run chart.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 10/13/2008 10:12:29 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
iberplanes(at)gmail.com writes:
Hello gang,
do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=B4ve removed one
spark plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil to keep it OK for my
long
term storage and i=B4ve founded dirty as if the were used. Anyone with the
same
case here?
many thanks ,
--
Alberto Martin
_www.iberplanes.es_ (http://www.iberplanes.es/)
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Ok, thanks for your answers. I believe the tag is under the engine, right?
I have opened it the other way around so the cylinders are on the top and
the plugs easily removed if I need to. I=B4ll check if I can get the tag.
THANKS!!!
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Weaver" <gweaver(at)nctv.com> |
What are you guys using for a tach? I'm not having much luck with UMA, I'm on number
two and it doesn't work !! The one from jabiru (VDO) is not going to work
either(boat tach). Other than a digital is there anything else that works??
[Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8648#208648
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
I have a VDO that works from the alternator or from the trigger supplied or
from coil negative earth.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, 14 October 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Tach ??
What are you guys using for a tach? I'm not having much luck with UMA, I'm
on number two and it doesn't work !! The one from jabiru (VDO) is not going
to work either(boat tach). Other than a digital is there anything else that
works?? [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8648#208648
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
It is digital, but no problems with my Grand Rapids EIS....lots of
info besides rpm, too.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded; igniton parts will arrive
Friday; flight soon after.
On Oct 13, 2008, at 11:37 PM, Gary Weaver wrote:
>
>
> What are you guys using for a tach? I'm not having much luck with
> UMA, I'm on number two and it doesn't work !! The one from jabiru
> (VDO) is not going to work either(boat tach). Other than a digital
> is there anything else that works?? [Shocked]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8648#208648
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
| From: | jim <jim(at)jabirupacific.com> |
Well Since the engines are run in for an hour and then treated with storage
oil, you will see a =B3dirty=B2 spark plug when you remove them before you star
t
the engine for the first time.
So if the engine wasn't run at the factory your plugs would look brand new.
Jim McCormick
On 10/13/08 9:11 AM, "Iberplanes IGL" wrote:
> Hello gang,
>
> do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=B4ve removed one s
park
> plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil to keep it OK for my lon
g
> term storage and i=B4ve founded dirty as if the were used. Anyone with the
same
> case here?
>
> many thanks ,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Re: JabiruEngine-List: Factory tested ??Jim,
I got a question about setting up a prop for the 3300A engine with the
economy tuning kit installed. As I see it all one has to do is assure
that the ground run RPM at full throttle is over 2800 RPM and that the
inflight RPM full throttle straight and level doesnt go above 3150-3300.
If these specs are followed we can be assured that we are running full
rich/full power upon takeoff and lean in cruise. Does this sound right
to you?
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: jim
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Factory tested ??
Well Since the engines are run in for an hour and then treated with
storage oil, you will see a "dirty" spark plug when you remove them
before you start the engine for the first time.
So if the engine wasn't run at the factory your plugs would look brand
new.
Jim McCormick
On 10/13/08 9:11 AM, "Iberplanes IGL" wrote:
Hello gang,
do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=B4ve
removed one spark plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil to
keep it OK for my long term storage and i=B4ve founded dirty as if the
were used. Anyone with the same case here?
many thanks ,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Ivan,
Ground static and max in-flight RPM's do not guarantee that you have the right
size jets for correct mixture. Although, being way off the correct mixture will
likely cause you to fall short of any RPM targets you have.
Jet sizes aside for now, your static RPM will vary greatly depending on your prop.
I have the Senenich wooden W64ZK49 prop in my 601XL and it gives me a static
RPM around 2650. Max level flight RPM is around 3150. Other people with
the same airframe/prop/engine combination get different results due to the inherent
variations.
For in-flight confirmation of mixtures, having EGT information is very helpful.
The Jabiru factory documentation says that the EGT target for takeoff is 1184F
and the cruise target is 1256F. If I remember, Pete from Jabiru recommends
takeoff EGT's in the 1200-1250 F range and cruise EGT's in the 1350-1400F range.
Depending on whether you are above or below these targets will tell you that
you need to lean or richen your mixture.
The variation between cylinders will confuse the matter a bit as you may see some
cylinders will be above the target and some will be below it. I have spent
a good part of my phase I flight test period trying to find the 'sweet spot.'
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8874#208874
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
Al, I was told that the 3300 I bought was "run in" already and did not requi
re a breakin period. Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:11 pm
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Factory tested ??
Hello gang,
do we know for sure if our jabirus are factory tested? I=C2=B4ve removed one
spark plug per cylinder in order to spray it with oil=C2- to keep it OK f
or my long term storage and i=C2=B4ve founded dirty as if the were used. Any
one with the same case here?
many thanks ,
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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orums!
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-========================
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Dave
Thanks for the info. My carb tuning and jets should be just perfect since
they were tuned at the factory with no problem. So the only variable now is
geting the prop pitch just right again as it was before it was removed to
perform maintenance. I got my target RPM's from the SB on the "Economy
tuning."
By "sweet spot" do you mean peak EGT?
Thanks
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:28 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Factory tested ??
>
>
> Ivan,
>
> Ground static and max in-flight RPM's do not guarantee that you have the
> right size jets for correct mixture. Although, being way off the correct
> mixture will likely cause you to fall short of any RPM targets you have.
>
> Jet sizes aside for now, your static RPM will vary greatly depending on
> your prop. I have the Senenich wooden W64ZK49 prop in my 601XL and it
> gives me a static RPM around 2650. Max level flight RPM is around 3150.
> Other people with the same airframe/prop/engine combination get different
> results due to the inherent variations.
>
> For in-flight confirmation of mixtures, having EGT information is very
> helpful. The Jabiru factory documentation says that the EGT target for
> takeoff is 1184F and the cruise target is 1256F. If I remember, Pete from
> Jabiru recommends takeoff EGT's in the 1200-1250 F range and cruise EGT's
> in the 1350-1400F range. Depending on whether you are above or below
> these targets will tell you that you need to lean or richen your mixture.
>
> The variation between cylinders will confuse the matter a bit as you may
> see some cylinders will be above the target and some will be below it. I
> have spent a good part of my phase I flight test period trying to find the
> 'sweet spot.'
>
> Good luck,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
> In Phase I flight test.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8874#208874
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Ivan,
Depending on the serial number of your engine, I am not so sure that the
factory tuning is "just perfect".
You should follow the service bulletin : JSB018-1 Engine Tuning
Jrme
.../My carb tuning and jets should be just perfect since
they were tuned at the factory with no problem/...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
I understand. My serial number engine came complete with the "economy
tuning kit" installed. This was confirmed by Pete.
thanks
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jrme Delamare" <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Factory tested ??
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=
Ivan,
Depending on the serial number of your engine, I am not so sure that the
factory tuning is "just perfect".
You should follow the service bulletin : JSB018-1 Engine Tuning
Jrme
.../My carb tuning and jets should be just perfect since
they were tuned at the factory with no problem/...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Ivan,
If you say your jets were tuned at the factory, then I guess you are flying a Jabiru
airplane. (I do not know what you have) The jets that Jabiru installs
onn the production line are meant to work the best for their Jabiru airframes
and may, or may not, be optimum for other installations. When they built my 3300
engine, they did not know what type of airplane it would go in. As it happens,
I put it in a Zodiac 601XL with a fixed pitch wooden prop. In this application,
the load that the engine sees in flight is much different than on a Jabiru
airframe. As Pete at Jabiru USA said up front, and I have confirmed through
flight testing, the jets in my 3300 engine were too large (rich). I have
had to go down one size in both the main and needle jets to get the right mixture.
As to finding the 'sweet spot,' that is too complex a discussion to just attach
to this thread. The 601XL installation has all sorts of turbulent airflow into
the carb which causes all sorts of variability in mixture to the individual
cylinders. I am close to publishing the results of my testing in a separate
post in the near future.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8923#208923
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Thanks Dave,
Sorry I did not mention that my application is an S-LSA J-250. All was set
at the factory. I had to have my prop removed so when it was placed back on
the Sensenich ground adjustable pitch is not exactly as it was before. I
put a mark on the dial before removing it but the numbers are so close that
even a bit off changes the pitch-RPM a lot. I so have RPM figures from hours
of flying so I am just trying to match those again which did just fine for
the plane as set at the factory.
Thanks
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:45 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Factory tested ??
>
>
> Ivan,
>
> If you say your jets were tuned at the factory, then I guess you are
> flying a Jabiru airplane. (I do not know what you have) The jets that
> Jabiru installs onn the production line are meant to work the best for
> their Jabiru airframes and may, or may not, be optimum for other
> installations. When they built my 3300 engine, they did not know what
> type of airplane it would go in. As it happens, I put it in a Zodiac
> 601XL with a fixed pitch wooden prop. In this application, the load that
> the engine sees in flight is much different than on a Jabiru airframe. As
> Pete at Jabiru USA said up front, and I have confirmed through flight
> testing, the jets in my 3300 engine were too large (rich). I have had to
> go down one size in both the main and needle jets to get the right
> mixture.
>
> As to finding the 'sweet spot,' that is too complex a discussion to just
> attach to this thread. The 601XL installation has all sorts of turbulent
> airflow into the carb which causes all sorts of variability in mixture to
> the individual cylinders. I am close to publishing the results of my
> testing in a separate post in the near future.
>
> Good luck,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
> In Phase I flight test.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8923#208923
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Maybe we should all use the method that the Matronics Kitfox List
uses......include our name, airplane model, engine model, prop size,
and status, i.e. if we are building or flying, in our signatures.
That way, all the info is there for others to see, and we don't have
to remember to include it each time we make a comment about our plane
and how it is set up.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded; igniton parts will arrive
Friday; flight soon after.
On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Ivan wrote:
>
> Thanks Dave,
> Sorry I did not mention that my application is an S-LSA J-250.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Well, that idea was also before on the zenith list due to all the post on
accidents. Some builders blamed others and wrongly accused them as "other AC
brands competitors" when a crash was posted.
In my sign, I think, you can get a nice idea about me. Anyway on the Zenith
list only a few builder have done that modification
Take care,
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory tested ?? |
Lynn,
I think this is a great idea. I find I can't keep track of this information
and it is very useful when reading and attempting to make use of it.
Jim Crowder
Kitfox 5
Currently installing 3300a Jabiru
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:47 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Factory tested ??
>
>
> Maybe we should all use the method that the Matronics Kitfox List
> uses......include our name, airplane model, engine model, prop size,
> and status, i.e. if we are building or flying, in our signatures.
> That way, all the info is there for others to see, and we don't have
> to remember to include it each time we make a comment about our plane
> and how it is set up.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded; igniton parts will arrive
> Friday; flight soon after.
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Ivan wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks Dave,
> > Sorry I did not mention that my application is an S-LSA J-250.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sensenich ground adjustable prop |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi
All what is the size and part number of the 2 bladed Sensenich carbon fiber prop
that comes with the zodiac XL Jab 3300 FWF kits?
There was no paper work that came with my Jab USA kit and how do you find the Part
Number on the hub? Pete, what size and PN was it????
Chris Sinfield
XL Jab3300
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9323#209323
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sensenich prop for the 3300 |
| From: | aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com |
From the Sensenich web site:
http://www2.sensenich.com/cgi-bin/webcart/webcart.cgi
2A0R5L68EN
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Sensenich prop for the 3300 |
Looking at the bottom of the attached screen shot from the Sensenich web
site 2A0R5L68EN looks like a prop for a Rotax in a pusher configuration. The
prop I received is in my FWF kit from Jabiru USA is a 2A0J5R64ZN (the one at
the top). Here is my guess at the encoding:
2A0J5R64ZN
2A0R5L68EN
The 2 is for two blades. R/J is Rotax vs. Jabiru. R/L is Right vs. Left
turning. 64 or 68 is the diameter. Although I don't have any direct evidence
the fine "N" indicates the nickel leading edge protection.
-- Craig
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich prop for the 3300
>From the Sensenich web site:
http://www2.sensenich.com/cgi-bin/webcart/webcart.cgi
2A0R5L68EN
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Ronco" <joe(at)halzel.com> |
| Subject: | Sensenich prop for the 3300 |
You can also check the link below from the Sensenich web site.
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-2.pdf
Joe R
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich prop for the 3300
Looking at the bottom of the attached screen shot from the Sensenich web
site 2A0R5L68EN looks like a prop for a Rotax in a pusher configuration. The
prop I received is in my FWF kit from Jabiru USA is a 2A0J5R64ZN (the one at
the top). Here is my guess at the encoding:
2A0J5R64ZN
2A0R5L68EN
The 2 is for two blades. R/J is Rotax vs. Jabiru. R/L is Right vs. Left
turning. 64 or 68 is the diameter. Although I don't have any direct evidence
the fine "N" indicates the nickel leading edge protection.
-- Craig
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich prop for the 3300
>From the Sensenich web site:
http://www2.sensenich.com/cgi-bin/webcart/webcart.cgi
2A0R5L68EN
Rick
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Electroair direct fire ignition system in a Jabiru |
2200
Here's the info on the Electroair direct fire ignition
(www.electroair.net) system that I installed on my Jabiru 2200 engine
in my Kitfox. First off, some history....why did I go with an after-
market ignition system instead of the stock Jabiru ignition?....I
thought there might be a better/more modern way to fire the plugs
than the old system, and I became tired of having to change rotors
after the recommended 200 hours of use. Also, I was reluctant
(stubborn) to glue the rotors on as recommended. After having found
that it was indeed necessary to glue them on, and having some success
using that method, I decided...during a rebuild of the engine...that
I would leave all the distributor components off when reassembling
the engine, and go with the Electroair direct fire system.
Electroair had begun development on a component to replace one of the
Jabiru distributors. This would retain the other distributor as the
other half of the redundant ignition system. I, being stubborn,
wanted to do away completely with the Jabiru ignition, and asked
Electroair if they would design a system that would use a trigger
wheel and two magnetic pickups, similar to their 6-cylinder engine
systems. They would do this, but I had to make my own bracket to hold
the two pickups, as they did not have access to a Jabiru engine for
designing the prototype bracket. I agreed to this and ordered the
ignition kit.
To make a long story short (and to create some drama for a possible
future magazine article), I got the system installed, and it is
working beautifully. There were some minor "growing pains" as we
sorted out some installation issues, but these are in the past, and I
am now flying with the assurance that I won't be bothered down the
road with loose rotors, loose distributor caps, leaking distributor
shaft seals, and scored shafts that I have experienced in the past.
The kit originally arrived weighing about 13 lbs, and by cutting the
harnesses and spark plug wires to a more suitable length for my
airplane, I got the weight down to about 11 lbs. I removed the Jabiru
distributors, drive gears, caps, rotors, coils, and plug wires,
totaling exactly 5 lbs. So the increase in weight for the Electroair
system was about 6 lbs...a small weight penalty for such a modern
dependable ignition system, and one that allows for future ignition
modifications as well, which I will be looking into.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 578hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | A question about parts? |
Dear Jabiru Listers,I'm getting prepared to do our annual aircraft inspectio
n on my Zenith Zodiac CH601XL powered by a capable Jabiru 3300. =C2-I was
wondering where is the best place to get a new set of rotors, distributer ca
ps and spark plug leads. We now have 230 hours on the airplane and engine.My
Son contacted Jabiru but I think the prices they are offering are a =C2-w
ee bit high, I may be wrong, but I thought I'd throw it out there and see wh
at advice you Jabiru wonks could add. =C2-I am also looking for accurate p
art #'s so if I go to a local supplier I'm assured that I'm getting =C2-th
e right parts.Thank you for yur time and cionsideration.Sincerely,Pete Paris
=C2-
------------------------------------------------------------
Art School
Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
http://tagline.excite.com/fc/JkJQPTgLBDtkjc2DaWmjWez7C50Sxf8ZUexPyP3AmlDiS0B
yanP4JQ/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
JabiruUSA doesn't seem to have a source for the recommended smooth air elbow
recommended from the airbox to the carby intake. Does anyone have a source?
My local auto parts stores just looked at me when I told them I just wanted
to look through their hose selections to find one. Seems if you can't tell
them what car it goes on, you are out of luck .. It is 2 and one quarter
inch inside diameter in a 90 degree elbow. This may or may not be the part
they refer to as the Cobra Head. Obviously, one did not come with my FWF
kit, just scat hose. Thanks ..
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
intakehoses dot com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby
JabiruUSA doesn't seem to have a source for the recommended smooth air
elbow recommended from the airbox to the carby intake. Does anyone have
a source? My local auto parts stores just looked at me when I told them
I just wanted to look through their hose selections to find one. Seems
if you can't tell them what car it goes on, you are out of luck .. It
is 2 and one quarter inch inside diameter in a 90 degree elbow. This
may or may not be the part they refer to as the Cobra Head. Obviously,
one did not come with my FWF kit, just scat hose. Thanks ..
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
The hose geometry will depend on each airframe and FWF layout, of course,
but FWIW, on my Murphy Rebel, with the std. mixer box mounted straight back
of the engine and high, a Gates brand #20748 radiator hose fitting works
well for turning the corner. The turn is a little wider than 90 deg.,
perhaps 105-110 deg. Another short piece of straight 2.25" hose completes
the run up to a bottom exit from the mixer box.
A photo is at at http://n254mr.com/node/572 . There's a lot of stuff in the
way in this photo, including Magnecor plug wires dangling about, but you ca
n
get the idea. It's an AeroCarb installation, but the Bing intake geometry
would be much the same.
Ron
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Jeff wrote
:
>
>
> JabiruUSA doesn't seem to have a source for the recommended smooth air
> elbow recommended from the airbox to the carby intake. Does anyone have
a
> source? My local auto parts stores just looked at me when I told them I
> just wanted to look through their hose selections to find one. Seems if
you
> can't tell them what car it goes on, you are out of luck =85. It is 2 a
nd
> one quarter inch inside diameter in a 90 degree elbow. This may or may n
ot
> be the part they refer to as the Cobra Head. Obviously, one did not come
> with my FWF kit, just scat hose. Thanks =85.
>
> Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marin Streeter" <alderacres(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
Jeff
I placed mine right behind the engine and have a straight hose into it.
I
will be ordering my hose from this web site that has the hose you need.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1036
<http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1036&osCsid
=83b8
c2a0e6b04cdac7cc52e4a45c0749> &osCsid=83b8c2a0e6b04cdac7cc52e4a45c0749
Marin
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any
review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone
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may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:50 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby
JabiruUSA doesn't seem to have a source for the recommended smooth air
elbow
recommended from the airbox to the carby intake. Does anyone have a
source?
My local auto parts stores just looked at me when I told them I just
wanted
to look through their hose selections to find one. Seems if you can't
tell
them what car it goes on, you are out of luck .. It is 2 and one
quarter
inch inside diameter in a 90 degree elbow. This may or may not be the
part
they refer to as the Cobra Head. Obviously, one did not come with my
FWF
kit, just scat hose. Thanks ..
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
This was the part number and price from intakehoses.com at the end of 2006.
I got the part number from Lance Gingell's build log:
90L225 Rubber Elbow 2.25" ID X 90 Degree $9.49
-- Craig
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby
intakehoses dot com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff <mailto:jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby
JabiruUSA doesn't seem to have a source for the recommended smooth air elbow
recommended from the airbox to the carby intake. Does anyone have a source?
My local auto parts stores just looked at me when I told them I just wanted
to look through their hose selections to find one. Seems if you can't tell
them what car it goes on, you are out of luck .. It is 2 and one quarter
inch inside diameter in a 90 degree elbow. This may or may not be the part
they refer to as the Cobra Head. Obviously, one did not come with my FWF
kit, just scat hose. Thanks ..
Jeff
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Jeff,
The Intakehoses.com 2.25" 90 degree bend hose is what I am using too. It is not
as easy to install and remove as SCAT ducting, but it is working well. Picture
attached.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9809#209809
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0049_626.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Weaver" <gweaver(at)nctv.com> |
Peter,
Do you have a part number? Is it a 3and a 1/8 inch? UMA redid this one and it
works sort of,, well it dies at 750 RPM but any thing above that works great.
Flew it yesterday for the first time.
Gary
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9833#209833
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0027_2_337.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET> |
I have had 3 VDO tacks,a little over 200 hrs. in my Jabiru powered
Alpi So far this new one is working ok. If you find a good replacement don't
keep it a secret! Bob Haas 380HB.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Tach ??
Peter,
Do you have a part number? Is it a 3and a 1/8 inch? UMA redid this one and
it works sort of,, well it dies at 750 RPM but any thing above that works
great. Flew it yesterday for the first time.
Gary
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9833#209833
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0027_2_337.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Gary
I purchased from the local Australian agent SGESCO.MAX. They provide tel
advice if there is a problem.
The part number given is 333015038 and it also displays engine hours in an
LCD display. The installation details are provided by VDO in a flyer which
tells how to connect it to drive it from the alternator, the neg earth or
the small HE sender supplied. They also supplied a noise suppression diode
which I am using with the alternator connection.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Weaver
Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2008 12:53 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Tach ??
Peter,
Do you have a part number? Is it a 3and a 1/8 inch? UMA redid this one and
it works sort of,, well it dies at 750 RPM but any thing above that works
great. Flew it yesterday for the first time.
Gary
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9833#209833
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0027_2_337.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
Craig:
It is still the same part number but the cost has escalated to
$13.40. However, that is over $80 less than I paid for the Cobra head
I received from Jab which was way too big to fit in the small space
available.
Thanks for the info on intake hoses dot com. I was just about to
google hoses when the hint showed up in my in-box. Will order one
today.
Stan
701/3300
On Oct 21, 2008, at 22:24 , Craig Payne wrote:
> This was the part number and price from intakehoses.com at the end
> of 2006. I got the part number from Lance Gingell=92s build log:
>
> 90L225 Rubber Elbow 2.25" ID X 90
> Degree $9.49
>
> -- Craig
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of steve
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:02 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the
> carby
>
> intakehoses dot com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
I built my own "air straightener/divider." It was a lot of work, and
I can't say as it gave me any benefit...maybe, but I'm not positive.
Here's a picture. I started out with the curved fiberglas tube which
I built, laying fiberglas over a section of PVC plumbing. I used it
for awhile just as a curved tube, then later cut it along the
vertical axis and added the air straightening vanes, and reassembled.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 22, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Stanley Challgren wrote:
> Craig:
>
> It is still the same part number but the cost has escalated to
> $13.40. However, that is over $80 less than I paid for the Cobra
> head I received from Jab which was way too big to fit in the small
> space available.
>
> Thanks for the info on intake hoses dot com. I was just about to
> google hoses when the hint showed up in my in-box. Will order one
> today.
>
> Stan
> 701/3300
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2008, at 22:24 , Craig Payne wrote:
>
>> This was the part number and price from intakehoses.com at the end
>> of 2006. I got the part number from Lance Gingell=92s build log:
>>
>> 90L225 Rubber Elbow 2.25" ID X 90
>> Degree $9.49
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:02 PM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to
>> the carby
>>
>> intakehoses dot com
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ========================
> ========================
> ========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby |
Hey Lynn, just curious.. With all the modifications you have made to your
engine, what changes did you make to the Jabiru serial number placard to
improve it??
Just kidding, I'm enjoying all the good ideas you share with us.
Thanks!
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to the carby
>I built my own "air straightener/divider." It was a lot of work, and
> I can't say as it gave me any benefit...maybe, but I'm not positive.
> Here's a picture. I started out with the curved fiberglas tube which
> I built, laying fiberglas over a section of PVC plumbing. I used it
> for awhile just as a curved tube, then later cut it along the
> vertical axis and added the air straightening vanes, and reassembled.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 22, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Stanley Challgren wrote:
> Craig:
>
> It is still the same part number but the cost has escalated to
> $13.40. However, that is over $80 less than I paid for the Cobra
> head I received from Jab which was way too big to fit in the small
> space available.
>
> Thanks for the info on intake hoses dot com. I was just about to
> google hoses when the hint showed up in my in-box. Will order one
> today.
>
> Stan
> 701/3300
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2008, at 22:24 , Craig Payne wrote:
>
>> This was the part number and price from intakehoses.com at the end
>> of 2006. I got the part number from Lance Gingell's build log:
>>
>> 90L225 Rubber Elbow 2.25" ID X 90
>> Degree $9.49
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:02 PM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cobra Head/airbox connection to
>> the carby
>>
>> intakehoses dot com
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ========================> ========================>
> =======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leland Taylor" <tdpilot(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/23/08 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FYI: 2200 for sale |
| From: | "dholly" <oue191(at)yahoo.com> |
eBay Item number: 220302608436
--------
Airdale Avid+ project | Jab2200 | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210876#210876
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on new |
alternator coil.
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
<> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in
my hangar for a few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent
changed the alternator coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination
fault finding and the problem seemed to be cured for a year or so though
it was never clear what the problem was.
However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent charging and
on the last flight the radio packed up as the voltage was so low. The
battery situation wasn't clear as it had been swapped many times for a
spare so we started with charging the battery fully on the ground. Still
no charge when running and as I began to start with measuring the AC
from the coil I noticed some scorching in the AC lead connectors, see
attached. Examining the scorched one it came off in my hand. I gentle
pull on it's partner and this too also came off. The ends on the wires
were stripped and 'tinned' but it is clear from examining the crimps
they have never been either soldered or crimped to grip on the
conductor.
Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have the
cowlings off in case yours have the same problem which may manifest
itself at an awkward moment. May also be worth sliding the insulation
back and examining the crimp appearance or chopping them off and putting
better ones on.
Regards, Clive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
Thanks, Clive....I've had an intermittent high voltage report (from
my EIS) and by the time I can glance over to see what it was, it
corrects itself. I will look into this.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 30, 2008, at 5:49 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in my hangar
> for a few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent changed
> the alternator coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination
> fault finding and the problem seemed to be cured for a year or so
> though it was never clear what the problem was.
>
> However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent
> charging and on the last flight the radio packed up as the voltage
> was so low. The battery situation wasn't clear as it had been
> swapped many times for a spare so we started with charging the
> battery fully on the ground. Still no charge when running and as I
> began to start with measuring the AC from the coil I noticed some
> scorching in the AC lead connectors, see attached. Examining the
> scorched one it came off in my hand. I gentle pull on it's partner
> and this too also came off. The ends on the wires were stripped and
> 'tinned' but it is clear from examining the crimps they have never
> been either soldered or crimped to grip on the conductor.
>
> Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have
> the cowlings off in case yours have the same problem which may
> manifest itself at an awkward moment. May also be worth sliding the
> insulation back and examining the crimp appearance or chopping them
> off and putting better ones on.
>
> Regards, Clive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
I just thought of something, Clive....when I first got my engine, Ben
Krotje told me to cut the connectors off from the alternator leads
and crimp on the normal 1/4" wide terminals. I had forgotten about
this (it was 3 years ago), and I was just wondering if you still had
the original, narrow, terminals on your alternator leads when you
noticed the problem?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 30, 2008, at 5:49 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in my hangar
> for a few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent changed
> the alternator coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination
> fault finding and the problem seemed to be cured for a year or so
> though it was never clear what the problem was.
>
> However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent
> charging and on the last flight the radio packed up as the voltage
> was so low. The battery situation wasn't clear as it had been
> swapped many times for a spare so we started with charging the
> battery fully on the ground. Still no charge when running and as I
> began to start with measuring the AC from the coil I noticed some
> scorching in the AC lead connectors, see attached. Examining the
> scorched one it came off in my hand. I gentle pull on it's partner
> and this too also came off. The ends on the wires were stripped and
> 'tinned' but it is clear from examining the crimps they have never
> been either soldered or crimped to grip on the conductor.
>
> Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have
> the cowlings off in case yours have the same problem which may
> manifest itself at an awkward moment. May also be worth sliding the
> insulation back and examining the crimp appearance or chopping them
> off and putting better ones on.
>
> Regards, Clive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Yes these were the originals. You have it covered already and I suspect
Ben came across the issue many years ago....
The first Jab engine I got I looked the connectors over and they looked
good so I just used the 1/4 blades in them and heat shrinked over the
lot. They are still on the plane and it's done 1000 hrs with good volts
throughout. It was likely that these badly fitted ones could have lasted
as well. I'm not sure if my Esqual engine has them changed or not, it's
an age thing.....
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 30 October 2008 11:11
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not
crimped on new alternator coil.
-->
I just thought of something, Clive....when I first got my engine, Ben
Krotje told me to cut the connectors off from the alternator leads and
crimp on the normal 1/4" wide terminals. I had forgotten about this (it
was 3 years ago), and I was just wondering if you still had the
original, narrow, terminals on your alternator leads when you noticed
the problem?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 30, 2008, at 5:49 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in my hangar for a
> few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent changed the
> alternator coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination fault
> finding and the problem seemed to be cured for a year or so though it
> was never clear what the problem was.
>
> However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent charging
> and on the last flight the radio packed up as the voltage was so low.
> The battery situation wasn't clear as it had been swapped many times
> for a spare so we started with charging the battery fully on the
> ground. Still no charge when running and as I began to start with
> measuring the AC from the coil I noticed some scorching in the AC lead
> connectors, see attached. Examining the scorched one it came off in my
> hand. I gentle pull on it's partner and this too also came off. The
> ends on the wires were stripped and 'tinned' but it is clear from
> examining the crimps they have never been either soldered or crimped
> to grip on the conductor.
>
> Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have
> the cowlings off in case yours have the same problem which may
> manifest itself at an awkward moment. May also be worth sliding the
> insulation back and examining the crimp appearance or chopping them
> off and putting better ones on.
>
> Regards, Clive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
Clive, great info and photos. Did this manifest itself in engine performance one
way or the other or only in charging the battery ? What time frame did you buy
the 3300? Thanks, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 5:49 am
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on new
alternator coil.
<> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in my hangar
for a few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent changed the alternator
coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination fault finding and the problem
seemed to be cured for a year or so though it was never clear what the problem
was.
However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent charging and on the
last flight the radio packed up as the voltage was so low. The battery situation
wasn't clear as it had been swapped many times for a spare so we started with
charging the battery fully on the ground. Still no charge when running and
as I began to start with measuring the AC from the coil I noticed some scorching
in the AC lead connectors, see attached. Examining the scorched one it came
off in my hand. I gentle pull on it's partner and this too also came off. The
ends on the wires were stripped and 'tinned' but it is clear from examining
the crimps they have never been either soldered or crimped to grip on the conductor.
Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have the cowlings
off in case yours have the same problem which may manifest itself at an awkward
moment. May also be worth sliding the insulation back and examining the crimp
appearance or chopping them off and putting better ones on.
Regards, Clive
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Hi Bill. only effect was battery volts dropping thought not
conclusively. Charge light didn't come on for instance.
Plane was built in 2004. New coils (with dodgy crimps) were fitted in
2006 or 7.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Sent: 30 October 2008 18:54
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not
crimped on new alternator coil.
Clive, great info and photos. Did this manifest itself in engine
performance one way or the other or only in charging the battery ? What
time frame did you buy the 3300? Thanks, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 5:49 am
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped
on new alternator coil.
<> I've been chasing a charging problem on an aircraft in my
hangar for a few years. J430 3300 Jabiru. Some time ago the agent
changed the alternator coils for new ones whilst doing some elimination
fault finding and the problem seemed to be cured for a year or so though
it was never clear what the problem was.
However a few flights recently have shown some intermittent charging and
on the last flight the radio packed up as the voltage was so low. The
battery situation wasn't clear as it had been swapped many times for a
spare so we started with charging the battery fully on the ground. Still
no charge when running and as I began to start with measuring the AC
from the coil I noticed some scorching in the AC lead connectors, see
attached. Examining the scorched one it came off in my hand. I gentle
pull on it's partner and this too also came off. The ends on the wires
were stripped and 'tinned' but it is clear from examining the crimps
they have never been either soldered or crimped to grip on the
conductor.
Suggest you give your AC connections a good pull next time you have the
cowlings off in case yours have the same problem which may manifest
itself at an awkward moment. May also be worth sliding the insulation
back and examining the crimp appearance or chopping them off and putting
better ones on.
Regards, Clive
[Image Removed]
<http://webmail.aol.com/39598/aol/en-us/Mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.
1
9829309&folder=NewMail&partId=4>
AOL News.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
Clive,
Are you speaking ignition coils (two of them, either black or dark gray
in color) or the "coils" in the rotating alternator??? A mismatch in
terms here might tend to confuse those of us who speak American English.
Connectors in ignition coils should have no impact on charging.
CAVU jeff
New coils (with dodgy crimps) were fitted in 2006 or 7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
new alternator coil.
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Sorry, alternator 'stator' coils.
CAVU?
CJ
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
THOMAS SMALL
Sent: 30 October 2008 21:11
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Found it at last-Coil feed wires not
crimped on new alternator coil.
Clive,
Are you speaking ignition coils (two of them, either black or dark gray
in color) or the "coils" in the rotating alternator??? A mismatch in
terms here might tend to confuse those of us who speak American English.
Connectors in ignition coils should have no impact on charging.
CAVU jeff
New coils (with dodgy crimps) were fitted in 2006 or 7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | Found it at last-Coil feed wires not crimped on |
Clive,
I noticed the harness loom tubing had melted at the connection from the
alternator. I think the connectors I used were not compatible with the
ones from the alternator. I cut off the connectors and soldered the
wires, everything is "cool" now. This had been a common problem in the
past.
Chuck D.
N701TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Finally got the EIS problem solved |
I finally got the EIS 4000 to report accurate data, without hopping
all over the screen, I installed a Radio Shack 273-105 ferrite filter
(as suggested by Sandy at Grand Rapids Tech) around the input wire
bundle, and that seems to have cured it. After installing the filter,
the thing acted up once during taxi, but never after that....in .4
hrs of flying. I have another filter to install on the EGT and CHT
probe extensions, but I may not need to do that....we'll see.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 583hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (21 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through soley through the
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You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments.
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Thank you for your support!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contribution Site URL Clarification |
Dear Listers,
In my List Fund Raiser kickoff email last night, I mistyped the URL for the *initial*
Contribution web site and couple of people reported receiving SSL certificate
errors. The actual payment entry pages where were correct, however, so
there were no certificate issues that impacted payment data. I'm sorry for the
confusion.
Please use the following URL to start your List Contribution:
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
Contribution too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
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Thank you!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> |
What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
I use Purolator in-line fuel filters in each of the down-lines from
my two fuel tanks, and another just after the main shut-off valve.
These have a glass see-through housing, and replaceable filters.
Total of 3 filters. Aircraft Spruce has them, as well as some auto
parts outlets. They might not be available as Purolators any more,
but NAPA carries them in their own brand, and it is the same thing.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:21 PM, pequeajim wrote:
>
>
> What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Lynn, et al, Be very cautious when buying the latest version of the
"Clearview" type of fuel filter. They are now marketed by several companies,
among them "Mr. Gasket". The design has been re-engineered to make them
easier to manufacture and the result is no longer suitable for any vehicle
application and certainly not aircraft IMHO.
The original Purolator filter (mine is circa 1994) had one end and the
center section machined as one piece and the center section was round which
yielded threads that gave a circular contact on the end that screwed on. Now
the center section is a flat cast piece. The parting line runs through the
center of the part and the two sides are MISALIGNED (!) so that the ends
will not stay square to it when the filter is assembled. The result is that
the o-rings get damaged and leak. In addition this new center section is
only about 1/8" (3.2mm) thick so the area of thread engagement to the
threads in the end pieces is very small.
In the original the barbed fittings were part of ends making for a bit of a
PITA since you had to buy a specific size to match the fuel line used in the
application. The new version has threaded ends and comes with a set of
plastic barbed fittings so one size fits all, however, the ends are chromed
and the "overspray" (for lack of a better term) into the first two threads
makes it necessary to chase the threads if you wish to use metal fittings.
If you wish to investigate for yourself, I recommend you remove the filter
from its packaging and inspect it right there on the store counter. If they
make you buy it first at least you won't have to make a return trip to take
it back.
Rick
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I use Purolator in-line fuel filters in each of the down-lines from my two
> fuel tanks, and another just after the main shut-off valve. These have a
> glass see-through housing, and replaceable filters. Total of 3 filters.
> Aircraft Spruce has them, as well as some auto parts outlets. They might not
> be available as Purolators any more, but NAPA carries them in their own
> brand, and it is the same thing.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:21 PM, pequeajim wrote:
>
>>
>> What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
Rick,
What filters are you now using? I'm about to replace mine.
Jim Crowder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:43 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Filter
Lynn, et al, Be very cautious when buying the latest version of the
"Clearview" type of fuel filter. They are now marketed by several companies,
among them "Mr. Gasket". The design has been re-engineered to make them
easier to manufacture and the result is no longer suitable for any vehicle
application and certainly not aircraft IMHO.
The original Purolator filter (mine is circa 1994) had one end and the
center section machined as one piece and the center section was round which
yielded threads that gave a circular contact on the end that screwed on. Now
the center section is a flat cast piece. The parting line runs through the
center of the part and the two sides are MISALIGNED (!) so that the ends
will not stay square to it when the filter is assembled. The result is that
the o-rings get damaged and leak. In addition this new center section is
only about 1/8" (3.2mm) thick so the area of thread engagement to the
threads in the end pieces is very small.
In the original the barbed fittings were part of ends making for a bit of
a PITA since you had to buy a specific size to match the fuel line used in
the application. The new version has threaded ends and comes with a set of
plastic barbed fittings so one size fits all, however, the ends are chromed
and the "overspray" (for lack of a better term) into the first two threads
makes it necessary to chase the threads if you wish to use metal fittings.
If you wish to investigate for yourself, I recommend you remove the filter
from its packaging and inspect it right there on the store counter. If they
make you buy it first at least you won't have to make a return trip to take
it back.
Rick
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
I use Purolator in-line fuel filters in each of the down-lines from my
two fuel tanks, and another just after the main shut-off valve. These have a
glass see-through housing, and replaceable filters. Total of 3 filters.
Aircraft Spruce has them, as well as some auto parts outlets. They might not
be available as Purolators any more, but NAPA carries them in their own
brand, and it is the same thing.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:21 PM, pequeajim wrote:
What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET |
List,
my 3300 Jab idles fairly good at 800 ~ 900 Rpm when i crack the throttle off idle
at about 1050 to 1300 it will puff black smoke. at 1500 rpm it will smooth
out.
has any one changed jets or needle to fix the idle and low end mixture.
i think if i change the needle jet to a smaller size then it would run too lean
at cruise.
this would call for a change in needle configuration.
i gotta do something. any help would be appreciated.
bobby
N131BP
601 XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miguel Azevedo" <azevedoflyer(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
>From an user of SU carbs in English cars:
The symptoms are of a rich mixture which comes about when you open the
butterfly (mixture mass flow control) but the slider (air valve control) is
stuck closed.
The BING carb must have - just like SUs - some sort of damping system to
preclude the slider to jerk open as you open the throttle. SUs do it via a
small reservoir filled with very light oil and a plunger. Oil can leak
through the plunger at a prescribed rate, and this controls how fast the
slider opens. I do not know how this is accomplished by BING but it is worth
some study.
If the slider is sticking, as you open the throttle fuel is sucked from the
needle well but the slider does not allow more air flow and this results in
an overly rich mixture and black smoke.
Check the slider for smooth motion from fully closed to fully open. If some
stickiness is noted, a cleaning is in order. These carbs are very, very
sensitive to dirt, dust or other miniscule things that may get in between
the slider and guide. Worst case scenario is a punctured rubber membrane
(diaphragm) which pulls the slider up. A tiny leakage will induce the
described behavior also. It will not matter greatly above a certain speed.
Do not change needles unecessarily.
Good hunting!
Miguel Azevedo
PA22/20-150
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, wrote:
>
>
> List,
> my 3300 Jab idles fairly good at 800 ~ 900 Rpm when i crack the throttle
> off idle at about 1050 to 1300 it will puff black smoke. at 1500 rpm it will
> smooth out.
> has any one changed jets or needle to fix the idle and low end mixture.
> i think if i change the needle jet to a smaller size then it would run too
> lean at cruise.
> this would call for a change in needle configuration.
> i gotta do something. any help would be appreciated.
>
> bobby
> N131BP
> 601 XL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary aman <gaman(at)att.net> |
Are there members on the list who are completely thrilled with the Bing 64CV? Does
anyone have any experience with an alternative?
Thanx,G.Aman 2200 Jabiru/Bing 64CV,380hrs, attached with velcro.
----- Original Message ----
From: Miguel Azevedo <azevedoflyer(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 6:15:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Carburetor
Bob,
>From an user of SU carbs in English cars:
The symptoms are of a rich mixture which comes about when you open the butterfly
(mixture mass flow control) but the slider (air valve control) is stuck closed.
The BING carb must have - just like SUs - some sort of damping system to preclude
the slider to jerk open as you open the throttle. SUs do it via a small reservoir
filled with very light oil and a plunger. Oil can leak through the plunger
at a prescribed rate, and this controls how fast the slider opens. I do not
know how this is accomplished by BING but it is worth some study.
If the slider is sticking, as you open the throttle fuel is sucked from the needle
well but the slider does not allow more air flow and this results in an overly
rich mixture and black smoke.
Check the slider for smooth motion from fully closed to fully open. If some stickiness
is noted, a cleaning is in order. These carbs are very, very sensitive
to dirt, dust or other miniscule things that may get in between the slider and
guide. Worst case scenario is a punctured rubber membrane (diaphragm) which
pulls the slider up. A tiny leakage will induce the described behavior also. It
will not matter greatly above a certain speed.
Do not change needles unecessarily.
Good hunting!
Miguel Azevedo
PA22/20-150
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM, wrote:
List,
my 3300 Jab idles fairly good at 800 ~ 900 Rpm when i crack the throttle off idle
at about 1050 to 1300 it will puff black smoke. at 1500 rpm it will smooth
out.
has any one changed jets or needle to fix the idle and low end mixture.
i think if i change the needle jet to a smaller size then it would run too lean
at cruise.
this would call for a change in needle configuration.
i gotta do something. any help would be appreciated.
bobby
N131BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I have a Clearview that was sitting in my Harley parts bin when I bought the
Mr. Gasket POS, so the Mr.Gasket unit went back to the auto parts store and
the Vibraglide filter went airborne.One more thing about fuel filters. If
you live in a country subject to the Ethanol swindle as we are in the USA be
careful NOT to use any kind of fuel filter with a paper element. If water
should drop out of suspension it will coat the paper and, well, you might as
well try to fly with the fuel valve closed. This isn't just my opinion,
Rotax mentions this specifically in their manuals.
Rick
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
> Rick,
> What filters are you now using? I'm about to replace mine.
> Jim Crowder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Richard Girard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:43 AM
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Filter
>
> Lynn, et al, Be very cautious when buying the latest version of the
> "Clearview" type of fuel filter. They are now marketed by several companies,
> among them "Mr. Gasket". The design has been re-engineered to make them
> easier to manufacture and the result is no longer suitable for any vehicle
> application and certainly not aircraft IMHO.
> The original Purolator filter (mine is circa 1994) had one end and the
> center section machined as one piece and the center section was round which
> yielded threads that gave a circular contact on the end that screwed on. Now
> the center section is a flat cast piece. The parting line runs through the
> center of the part and the two sides are MISALIGNED (!) so that the ends
> will not stay square to it when the filter is assembled. The result is that
> the o-rings get damaged and leak. In addition this new center section is
> only about 1/8" (3.2mm) thick so the area of thread engagement to the
> threads in the end pieces is very small.
> In the original the barbed fittings were part of ends making for a bit of a
> PITA since you had to buy a specific size to match the fuel line used in the
> application. The new version has threaded ends and comes with a set of
> plastic barbed fittings so one size fits all, however, the ends are chromed
> and the "overspray" (for lack of a better term) into the first two threads
> makes it necessary to chase the threads if you wish to use metal fittings.
> If you wish to investigate for yourself, I recommend you remove the filter
> from its packaging and inspect it right there on the store counter. If they
> make you buy it first at least you won't have to make a return trip to take
> it back.
>
> Rick
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>>
>> I use Purolator in-line fuel filters in each of the down-lines from my two
>> fuel tanks, and another just after the main shut-off valve. These have a
>> glass see-through housing, and replaceable filters. Total of 3 filters.
>> Aircraft Spruce has them, as well as some auto parts outlets. They might not
>> be available as Purolators any more, but NAPA carries them in their own
>> brand, and it is the same thing.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:21 PM, pequeajim wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
>>>
>>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for
the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes
a
Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly
cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its
just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and
software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for
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to
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Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
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[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are
anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Rick-
I've got the "real" Purolator filters, but they *do* have the cast
center section as you say. But mine are leak-free and have been right
along. I know what you mean about the center section being kind of
crappy, machining-wise, and the old round one was a better design,
but like everything else, the "design be damned, we're gonna build it
cheap" school of thought has taken over.
I just removed the electric fuel pump from my fuel system, and in so
doing, I had to find another way to go from 5/16" fuel line down to
1/4" fuel line, so I just changed one end on my Purolator filter and
that was that....5/16" cap with the built-in barb on one end, and
1/4" cap with built-in barb on the other end. And these caps have the
nice smooth barb which is a joy to install and remove the fuel line
from. I've seen the multi-size end caps on the "non-Purolator"
filters, and they are crap...the "one size fits all" mentality at
work again.
Just for the record, before I removed the fuel pump and fuel pressure
gauge sending unit from my system, I measured the fuel flow right at
the carb, and it was 11.25 gallons per hour. With the fuel pump and
fuel pressure gauge sending unit removed, and 1/4" fuel line in it's
place, the flow was 13.6 gallons per hour. This was measured (with
about 5 gallons in each of the two wing tanks) by taking the float
bowl off and timing the flow of fuel through the carb (with the new
3.7mm float needle seat) for one minute, multiplied by 60. I can now
climb as steeply as desired, and the engine doesn't go lean or
stumble from lack of fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
On Nov 4, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Lynn, et al, Be very cautious when buying the latest version of the
> "Clearview" type of fuel filter. They are now marketed by several
> companies, among them "Mr. Gasket". The design has been re-
> engineered to make them easier to manufacture and the result is no
> longer suitable for any vehicle application and certainly not
> aircraft IMHO.
> The original Purolator filter (mine is circa 1994) had one end and
> the center section machined as one piece and the center section was
> round which yielded threads that gave a circular contact on the end
> that screwed on. Now the center section is a flat cast piece. The
> parting line runs through the center of the part and the two sides
> are MISALIGNED (!) so that the ends will not stay square to it when
> the filter is assembled. The result is that the o-rings get damaged
> and leak. In addition this new center section is only about
> 1/8" (3.2mm) thick so the area of thread engagement to the threads
> in the end pieces is very small.
> In the original the barbed fittings were part of ends making for a
> bit of a PITA since you had to buy a specific size to match the
> fuel line used in the application. The new version has threaded
> ends and comes with a set of plastic barbed fittings so one size
> fits all, however, the ends are chromed and the "overspray" (for
> lack of a better term) into the first two threads makes it
> necessary to chase the threads if you wish to use metal fittings.
> If you wish to investigate for yourself, I recommend you remove the
> filter from its packaging and inspect it right there on the store
> counter. If they make you buy it first at least you won't have to
> make a return trip to take it back.
>
> Rick
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Lynn Matteson
> wrote:
>
>
> I use Purolator in-line fuel filters in each of the down-lines from
> my two fuel tanks, and another just after the main shut-off valve.
> These have a glass see-through housing, and replaceable filters.
> Total of 3 filters. Aircraft Spruce has them, as well as some auto
> parts outlets. They might not be available as Purolators any more,
> but NAPA carries them in their own brand, and it is the same thing.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:21 PM, pequeajim wrote:
>
>
>
> What are you all using for a fuel filter with your Jabiru engines?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212186#212186
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... |
As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms
of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per
day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists
and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser.
Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep
these Lists up and running?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on
the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing
List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades
enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search
Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive
data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the
many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
Wiki and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many
places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its
one of the best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Members Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
November is the Annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are supported solely
through your generous Contributions during this time. Please make your Contribution
today and pick up a really nice free gift at this same time:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Listers have been including some really nice comments regarding what the Lists
mean to them along with their Contributions this year. I've included a few of
them below. Please read them over and see if some perhaps echo your feelings
as well.
Thank you for your support this year!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best bargain in the entire industry!!
-Owen B
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-Gary G
Thank you for an awesome site!
-Ashley M
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-Calvin A
Thank you for providing such and informative and ad free environment
to learn by.
-Myron H
As always, a valuable and extremely useful resource.
Stephen T
As always, a great service.
-Reade G
Very much appreciate this site and the communications it has
enabled between builders.
-Larry M
This service is worth every penny.
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Great site! Thanks a ton for its functionality!
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The lists are fantastic, a great source!
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Years of good service.
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Valuable service.
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You know we all could not do without your support!!
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Great resource!
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Thanks for the great service.
-John B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net> |
Scenerio: 3300 Jabiru; Dynon DK180; Pulse/Revolution values are set (at) 6; tach
wired to alternator with 1 amp fuse; Problem fluctuating tach readings on taxi
testing.
Readings: At idle 2000+/- RPM -- hand held tack shows 1050+/- 10;
As I add throttle Dynon RPM drops to 1600;
Slowly adding more power tach reading comes up then drops until it reaches full
throttle and reads 2300 (static should be 2800).
Has anyone had this problem? If so, how did you solve it? Any and all help will
be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Mack Kreizenbeck
601XL N990MK
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215009#215009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tach scatter |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Mack,
I have the same A/C, engine and Dynon D180 as you. My tach reading is correct
and rock solid. Lets see if we are hooked up the same.
My alternator signal tee's off of one of the two big output wires up stream of
the voltage regulator. This off-take wire has an in-line fuse holder and hooks
up to the Dynon white/green wire for "left tach." In the Dynon set-up, double
check your 6 pulses per rev set-up is on the same side tach you are wired to.
Make sure you do not have any bad connections or shorts in this circuit. Maybe
also change out your fuse to another one.
Good luck,
p.s. Unless you have a climb prop, I doubt you get 2800 static RPM on the ground.
I see 2600 with the 64ZK49 that Jabiru supplies with their FWF kit.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215127#215127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...? |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is
currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm hoping that everyone
is just waiting until the last minute to show their support... ;-)
Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to
support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding advertisements
to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really* don't want to
have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and
I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> |
I am happy with the Bing. 3300 first economy tuning works fine. I thought that
I would try it and change to something else if I did not like it but 400 hrs
later I'm still happy.
Paul
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215314#215314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Lightning-List: Behind By 21% - Advertising May |
Be Needed...?
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
To be honest we get that much junk mail from Matt maybe it would be
better if we had the odd aviation advert? Maybe that would shut him up.
He can send me my 5 bucks back then.....:-)
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Sent: 20 November 2008 08:25
Subject: Lightning-List: Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...?
--> Lightning-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
Dear Listers,
The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this
year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm
hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their
support... ;-)
Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep
these Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the
members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely
have to start adding advertisements to offset the costs of running the
Lists. But I *really* don't want to have to start doing that. I really
like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the
members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the
continued ad-free operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that
have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | we urgently buy parts |
we urgently buy cooling turbine 586110-7, anybody who have pls contact me by email:
tanyanfang(at)fy-ic.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215466#215466
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Lightning-List: Behind By 21% - Advertising |
May Be Needed...?
To be honest we get that much junk mail from Matt maybe it would be
better if we had the odd aviation advert?>>
Really?. I don`t see any stuff from Mat except his annual fund raiser and
freedom from adverts is worth paying $5 for. Taking into account the work
involved in running the list that must be worth at least another $5.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
Paul,
What EGT's are you seeing with the economy tuning kit? Also what is the
transition RPM that you notice from full rich to lean?
I have a ground adjustable prop so this adds a variable without changing
anything on the carburetor. I am seeing EGT's (at 3500ft MSL) in the 1300's
and my transition RPM seems to be at 2900. Thus on climbout at 85kts/2850
RPM I am not yet at full rich since I am less than 2900 RPM.
Thanks
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Carburetor
>
> I am happy with the Bing. 3300 first economy tuning works fine. I
> thought that I would try it and change to something else if I did not like
> it but 400 hrs later I'm still happy.
> Paul
>
> --------
> Paul Spackman
> Q-2 Jabiru 3300
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215314#215314
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort
of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the
List worth at least that much to you?
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are
some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's
plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps
the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling!
If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take
a minute right now to make your personal Contribution?
Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> |
I am seeing 1375 F at peak which happens at about 2750. I usually climbout at
about 3000 RPM with the EGT at 1325 F. Climbout is from 5300 FT most of the time.
I do most of my flying between 10 and 13 K and tend to run the engine at
2900 for cruise.
I guess I do not know enough about CV carbs to be able to say where the slide is
at full throttle on climbout at 3000 RPM. It would be nice to be able to have
a prop that could be adjusted in flight so the engine could develop max torq
and HP when you wanted it.
Maybe Jim or Pete can give us some insight about the CV operation at full throttle
but less than max RPM when the engine is loaded down.
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216533#216533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution |
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors 2008!
Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by sending your personal check to:
Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
(Please write your email address on the check!)
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Have Been Saying |
Wow! Many of the members making a List Support Contribution this year have been
using the Comments field to leave a personal message about the Lists. Thank
you! I have included a number of them below. Please read over a few and see
if you perhaps can echo some of the same sentiments regarding the value of the
Lists to you...
There is only a couple more days left for this year's List Fund Raiser and we're
still way behind previous years. If you've been waiting until the last minute
to show your support, Now is the Time! Please make your Contribution and pick
up a great gift at the same time!
By Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or By Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you in advance!!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
Here is some of the great feedback members have been including along with their
personal Contributions this year...
Over the years, the info I have received from the RV-List has
saved me thousands of dollars, and dozens of hours of time by
helping me avoid bad purchases, pointing me at vendors with
low prices and excellent support, and providing solutions to
the typical head scratchers that you run into.
Kevin H
Valuable service. Best List(s) on the Internet!
George A
Please accept this token not as an indicator of what
this list has been worth to me this past year.
Lew G
Great information and entertainment.
Tim V
Thanks again for another great year of service. This
project would be beyond me if it were not for the list.
Moreover, the friendships I have found are worth their
weight in GOLD!
Robert B
Great support you provide to all the subscribers!
Freddie H
Read it every day.
PF B
Thanks for your excellent management of the Matronics
Lists! Your services are head and shoulders above the
rest.
James M
Without the "List", there would be no Kolb "community".
Bill T
Thanks, Matt, for a great service! I've been monitoring
and using the lists since 1999.
Richard D
Thanks for such a terrific site and for all the work and
effort you put into it.
John R
A great service year after year.
John D
..another year of fantastic service.
Jerry B
This list is a great resource.
Arden A
Great list.
James M
Lists were a great help while building HRII N561FS.
John S
Great resources for both the beginner and experienced.
George R
Good service.
Gary G
The List is an invaluable resource!
William C
AeroElectric list is a great source of info and learning!
Janice J
Thank you, Matt for being there for us making it all happen
on the List for so many years - Great JOB!
Sam S
Thank you for providing a great venue. You definitely hit
the nail on the head with your solicitation asking if
readers look forward to receiving the email digests. I
certainly do and when I move from a dreamer to a builder, I
expect the anticipation will only increase.
Joe S
Thanks for a Perfect working list.
Hans-Peter R
Great List
Bryan K
Such a great selection of valuable forums!
David G
Nice job!
Walt E
Good resource...
Robert P
Thank you for another great year!
Scott S
I could not do this without you...
Robert D
I believe I've been a list member for over a decade
now. Thanks for the service!
Tim L
Great List
Hendrik W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means three things:..
1) Today I am now officially 45 years old...
2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to keep the List bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is
on it!
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
I've never seen a fuel filter on any of the production aircraft I've owned or flown,
just a gascolator backed up by drain points in the tanks. I haven't decided
whether to install a filter or not. I wonder if it isn't just one more
point of potential failure.
Flame away!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217404#217404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Well the Jabiru 3300 (hydraulic lifter) installation manual specifically
calls for one:
"11.2 Fuel Filtration
A Fuel filter capable of preventing the passage of particles larger than
0.1mm (100um) must
be installed between the fuel tank outlet and the fuel pump.
The filter must be present in the system for the fuel flow test. The size of
the filter should
give consideration to allow adequate flow with a used filter.
A Ryco Z15 or similar filter has been used successfully."
Rev 1, March 27, 2006, page 21 of 49.
I suppose if the mesh in the gascolator met those numbers they would be
happy.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Fuel Filter
I've never seen a fuel filter on any of the production aircraft I've owned
or flown, just a gascolator backed up by drain points in the tanks. I
haven't decided whether to install a filter or not. I wonder if it isn't
just one more point of potential failure.
Flame away!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217404#217404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
No flames, but no failures either, in any of my three Purolator in-
line glass fuel filters in nearly 600 hours of operation....and no
gascolator, either. Just a header tank with the wing tanks feeding
it, and a sumping point at the bottom. This serves the same purpose
as a gascolator. It allows any crap that reaches the header tank to
settle to the bottom, where it is "sumped" away the next time fuel is
drained...the next day, hopefully. And unlike a gascolator, the
capacity of this tank below the fuel outlet port is almost a quart,
so you could get really lazy/inattentive and still not get any crap
in the outgoing fuel...unless you shook the airplane really
violently, then tried to fly it. Then you might get some floating
crap into the outlet port. Guess what? Downstream from this header
tank is the last of the three filters.
And just for the record, I've got 19 hose clamps and more than that
in potential points of leakage, if you count the barbed fittings that
are screwed into the tanks, valves, filters, firewall pass-through,
and carb. Oh, and by the way, this is a high-wing, gravity-flow system.
I just found the figures for fuel flow that I posted back on Nov 5,
and which I'll paste here:
*****
Just for the record, before I removed the fuel pump and fuel pressure
gauge sending unit from my system, I measured the fuel flow right at
the carb, and it was 11.25 gallons per hour. With the fuel pump and
fuel pressure gauge sending unit removed, and 1/4" fuel line in it's
place, the flow was 13.6 gallons per hour. This was measured (with
about 5 gallons in each of the two wing tanks) by taking the float
bowl off and timing the flow of fuel through the carb (with the new
3.7mm float needle seat) for one minute, multiplied by 60. I can now
climb as steeply as desired, and the engine doesn't go lean or
stumble from lack of fuel.
*****
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I've never seen a fuel filter on any of the production aircraft
> I've owned or flown, just a gascolator backed up by drain points
> in the tanks. I haven't decided whether to install a filter or
> not. I wonder if it isn't just one more point of potential failure.
>
> Flame away!
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Working on fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217404#217404
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
The Aircraft Spruce filter P/N 05-01030 seems to be serving me pretty well so far.
I want to add a word of caution about the comment of using a smaller gascolator
filter. I have the Spruce gaslocator that has a single layer mesh screen
in it. I e-mailed Spruce about the mesh size and got a reply that it is 120
microns. They told me that they have a 74 micron screen available, but that
it was not listed in the current catalog. I went ahead and bought a couple thinking
that I would just use the smaller screen and no filter.
I installed the new screen and performed and engine run. I could not accelerate
past part-power and my fuel pressure at the engine was way low. I popped the
old screen in and re-ran the engine without any problems. I threw the smaller
screens out, added a filter into the system and never looked back. I could
have spent some more time troubleshooting around the smaller screen but decided
it was not worth the effort.
The stock 120 micron gascolator screen and the 05-01030 filter passes the flow
test and has around 50 flight hours with no problems.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217488#217488
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K Dilks" <kevin.dilks(at)liwest.at> |
As rule of thumb, % power is close to the % opening on the slide. The slide "sees"
the manifold pressure so they are always linked.
Similar carbs on the Rotax
Regards
kev
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217591#217591
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List of Contributors 2008 |
Dear Listers,
This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone that
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or by personal check to:
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Best regards,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET> |
| Subject: | RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08 |
Sensenich W62HJ Wooden Prop. 50 hours, $600. plus shipping.
W62HJ-40g; White with Red Stripes Flat Black , no chips, no nicks, ready to
Bolt on and fly. Bob Haas Checkpoint2(at)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:58 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08
*
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET> |
| Subject: | RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08 |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Haas
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08
Sensenich W62HJ Wooden Prop. 50 hours, $600. plus shipping.
W62HJ-40g; White with Red Stripes Flat Black , no chips, no nicks, ready to
Bolt on and fly. Bob Haas Checkpoint2(at)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:58 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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Text Version:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08 |
That's a pretty good deal for somebody...I just received my new
W62HJ546G prop from Sensenich for a cool $996. (the "5" denotes 5/16"
bolts)
Your prop would let my engine run a lot faster rpm. Reason for selling?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bob Haas wrote:
>
>
> Sensenich W62HJ Wooden Prop. 50 hours, $600. plus shipping.
> W62HJ-40g; White with Red Stripes Flat Black , no chips, no nicks,
> ready to
> Bolt on and fly. Bob Haas Checkpoint2(at)comcast.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:58 AM
> To: JabiruEngine-List Digest List
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in
> either of the
>
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor
>
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
> 08-12-10&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 2008-12-10&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
>
> ===============================================
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> ---
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
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>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08 |
It was installed on my Alpi Pioneer, but a ground adjustable came
Along and I went for it. The Pioneer is a Italian ELSA and does what it's
Supposed to do quite well. Bob Haas. N380BH.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
12/10/08
That's a pretty good deal for somebody...I just received my new
W62HJ546G prop from Sensenich for a cool $996. (the "5" denotes 5/16"
bolts)
Your prop would let my engine run a lot faster rpm. Reason for selling?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bob Haas wrote:
>
>
> Sensenich W62HJ Wooden Prop. 50 hours, $600. plus shipping.
> W62HJ-40g; White with Red Stripes Flat Black , no chips, no nicks,
> ready to
> Bolt on and fly. Bob Haas Checkpoint2(at)comcast.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:58 AM
> To: JabiruEngine-List Digest List
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/10/08
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in
> either of the
>
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor
>
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
> 08-12-10&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?
> Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 2008-12-10&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
>
> ===============================================
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> ===============================================
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET |
List,
many thanks to "Jeff" for the photos and directions for the dams in the Ram Air
Cooling Ducts.( Jabiru 3300 ) i installed the dams on the 2 rear cylinders with
only 1/8" clearance above the fins including the steel fins on the cylinder.i
also continued thru the gap in the spark plugs to the outside edge of the
duct. the temperature dropped from 335 ~ 340 to 265. UNBELIEVABLE. that is a
75 deg. drop. i was starting out with the dams too small.
you can learn a lot from this list if you go with the ones that know.
thanks again.
bobby
N131BP
73 hrs. and i didn't have to pull the cowl after this flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
Bobby,
Which aircraft is your 3300 installed on. Mine is not flying yet, but my
dams are not that tall. Maybe I should go back and change them. My 3300
is being installed on a Kitfox 5, which is a relatively slow draggy high
wing aircraft.
Thanks, Jim Crowder
Kitfox 5
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:24 AM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com; jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Cooling
>
>
> List,
> many thanks to "Jeff" for the photos and directions for the dams in the
> Ram Air Cooling Ducts.( Jabiru 3300 ) i installed the dams on the 2
> rear cylinders with only 1/8" clearance above the fins including the
> steel fins on the cylinder.i also continued thru the gap in the spark
> plugs to the outside edge of the duct. the temperature dropped from
> 335 ~ 340 to 265. UNBELIEVABLE. that is a 75 deg. drop. i was starting
> out with the dams too small.
>
> you can learn a lot from this list if you go with the ones that know.
>
> thanks again.
>
> bobby
> N131BP
> 73 hrs. and i didn't have to pull the cowl after this flight.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET wrote:
> List,
> many thanks to "Jeff" for the photos and directions for the dams in the Ram Air
Cooling Ducts.( Jabiru 3300 )
Much larger dams sound very interesting - I've been searching all over, but I can't
find the "Jeff photos" for the dams. Can you point me in the right direction?
Thanks!
..lance
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 ~290hrs
--------
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222991#222991
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com> |
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that
it feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to
push the issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes
away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real
slow into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but
not as bad and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to
degrade as I continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA
and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another
today asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for
gravity feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise. If
you are using a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak and
overfill the fuel bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not fully
closing due to friction in the cable.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that
it feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to
push the issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes
away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real
slow into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but
not as bad and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to
degrade as I continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA
and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another
today asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Peter,
Thanks for the quick reply.
FYI, I have a low-wing design and during take-off I use an electric
boost pump but during transition to cruise I turn it off and just use
the engine driven mechanical fuel pump on the 3300A. Even with the boost
pump, I don't exceed 3PSI (at least as much as I can trust the accuracy
of the gauge at such low values and a narrow range).
Assuming the needle leaking is the issue, is there a fix for non-gravity
feed setups?
As a side question, do those with gravity setups remove the engine
driven pump?
I'm assuming that if I turn on the boost pump during cruise and if I
have a needle leak issue that the problem should be noticeable sooner or
should be worse as the increased pressure will cause more leakage?
I'll check the choke cable as well to make sure it is fully closing.
Thanks!
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 23:21
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT
cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for
gravity feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise.
If you are using a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak
and overfill the fuel bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not
fully closing due to friction in the cable.
Peter
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that
it feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to
push the issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes
away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real
slow into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but
not as bad and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to
degrade as I continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA
and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another
today asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/12/2009 07:04
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Don
I have the J3300 in a Quickie Q-200 and getting 170KTS at 3000 ft CAS but
still not happy with the higher power settings and feel it has more
potential.
Yes you could try the boost pump and that would indicate if there is a
problem with the needle valve seat. It is possible to almost stop the engine
if it gets too rich even at WOT.
The setup is supposed to be OK at 3PSI.
Some have fitted a fuel pressure regulator but if you are sure you have 3PSI
up to WOT I don't see any value in adding another fail point.
Maybe it is the choke. The return spring is not very strong.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter,
Thanks for the quick reply.
FYI, I have a low-wing design and during take-off I use an electric boost
pump but during transition to cruise I turn it off and just use the engine
driven mechanical fuel pump on the 3300A. Even with the boost pump, I don't
exceed 3PSI (at least as much as I can trust the accuracy of the gauge at
such low values and a narrow range).
Assuming the needle leaking is the issue, is there a fix for non-gravity
feed setups?
As a side question, do those with gravity setups remove the engine driven
pump?
I'm assuming that if I turn on the boost pump during cruise and if I have a
needle leak issue that the problem should be noticeable sooner or should be
worse as the increased pressure will cause more leakage?
I'll check the choke cable as well to make sure it is fully closing.
Thanks!
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 23:21
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for
gravity feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise. If
you are using a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak and
overfill the fuel bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not fully
closing due to friction in the cable.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
&nbssp; - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum utilities such as List
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1/12/2009 07:04
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Don,
Check you EGT span. I had to modify my induction with a cheap rubber hose instead
of SCAT tube, since I was running rought at WOT over 8000ft:
http://www.lancegingell.com/lance/Tuning_the_Zodiac.html
..lance
ZodiacXL/Jab3300 ~300hrs
--------
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224441#224441
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Don,
Have you played with your jet sizes at all? I had a similar issue with being just
a little rich at takeoff, but way too rich at WOT in straight and level flight.
I had one speed run in which I had two cylinders actually go so cold in
EGT that they shut down on me. That is the benefit of having instrumentation
on all cylinders.
I went from the stock 255 main jet to a smaller 250. This helped out a lot. Interestingly
enough, there is an interaction between the main and needle jets,
even at WOT, when the main jet is supposed to be in control. I found this out
when I started to tune in my cruise EGT and went from a stock 285 needle jet
to a smaller 280. Going to the smaller needle jet made my WOT a little too lean
now. I went back to the larger 255 main jet and I am pretty happy with it
now.
Throw into the mix that I also went to a rubber intake hose with a flow divider
to even the EGT spreads across the cylinders.
Your results will certainly vary, but that is why they call this experimental,
right?
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224454#224454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | icubob(at)newnorth.net |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
don,
i have read some builders have removed the mech. pump with a gravity set up. very
easy to make a cover plate where the mech. pump attaches.
a leaky needle valve can be a bad seat or needle, or your system is overpowering
the float. bing can supply a new seat or needle. a pressure gauge that covers
a very narrow pressure range can be had for less than $20. if you are overpressuring
the carb it will leak. i think first i would want to know the fuel pressure,
then decide the fix.
i have also seen my carb leak and run smooth on the ground.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:55:09 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter,
Thanks for the quick reply.
FYI, I have a low-wing design and during take-off I use an electric boost pump
but during transition to cruise I turn it off and just use the engine driven mechanical
fuel pump on the 3300A. Even with the boost pump, I don't exceed 3PSI
(at least as much as I can trust the accuracy of the gauge at such low values
and a narrow range).
Assuming the needle leaking is the issue, is there a fix for non-gravity feed setups?
As a side question, do those with gravity setups remove the engine driven pump?
I'm assuming that if I turn on the boost pump during cruise and if I have a needle
leak issue that the problem should be noticeable sooner or should be worse
as the increased pressure will cause more leakage?
I'll check the choke cable as well to make sure it is fully closing.
Thanks!
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Harris
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 23:21
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for gravity
feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise. If you are using
a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak and overfill the fuel
bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not fully closing
due to friction in the cable.
Peter
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either in
straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels like it
will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue so I pull
back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow into
full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad and
that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I continue
to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"? 2A0J5R64Z-N)
that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and haven't
gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today asking
for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the rubber
90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution &nbssp; - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c=
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
That sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me. Possibly a fuel pump not
working properly when hot. If you have a fuel flow meter check your fuel
flow as you approach full throttle. If yu have a fuel pressure gauge check
that there is no drop in fuel pressure as the engine warms up .
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:33 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Don,
??? What happens to the exhaust gas temps when you get the roughness?
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Sent: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:03 pm
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full
throttle either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough
that it feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push
the issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
?
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle
roughness on take-off/climb-out.
?
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I
ease real slow into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness
but not as bad and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to
degrade as I continue to add power along with additional roughness.
?
Background info:
?
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No
issues with roughness.
?
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop
(64"? 2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in
2006.
?
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question
to Jabiru USA and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent
another today asking for status).
?
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I
replaced with the rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
?
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
The way to tell an over rich condition is to check the plugs. There will
always be a good dose of soot on them if you land immediately. The fuel
flow and pressure tests will show a rich condition too. Generally an over
rich condition makes the engine sluggish and you start to have problems as
you pull the throttle back as the plugs have to clear themselves enough to
keep the engine running.
One other problem you may have is low octane rating on the fuel. That could
sure cause your engine to get rough at top end rpm.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:51 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for
gravity feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise. If
you are using a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak and
overfill the fuel bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not fully
closing due to friction in the cable.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | japhillipsga(at)aol.com |
Don, I had a similar problem even with the rubber hose. Seems the carb reacts to
the varing speed of the air coming into it after the 90 degree turn. The fix
was making a divider vane of .20 aluminum sized to slip snug inside the rubber
tube at the bend that divides and channels the air just before it enters the
Bing. Worked for me. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 1:03 am
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either in
straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels like it
will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue so I pull
back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
?
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on take-off/climb-out.
?
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow into
full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad and
that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I continue
to add power along with additional roughness.
?
Background info:
?
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with roughness.
?
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"? 2A0J5R64Z-N)
that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
?
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and haven't
gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today asking
for status).
?
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the rubber
90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
?
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
As a firm believer in doing the easiest, cheapest thing first, check your
tank venting. Next, do a plug check. Let the engine enter its rough running,
shut the engine off and glide in. Plug color is an inexact method, per the
Bing manual, but if your engine is running so rich as to run rough you
should see the fuel contamination on the insulator. Worth what you paid for
it.
Rick
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM, wrote:
> Don, I had a similar problem even with the rubber hose. Seems the carb
> reacts to the varing speed of the air coming into it after the 90 degree
> turn. The fix was making a divider vane of .20 aluminum sized to slip snug
> inside the rubber tube at the bend that divides and channels the air just
> before it enters the Bing. Worked for me. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 1:03 am
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>
> I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
> either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it
> feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the
> issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
>
> Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
> take-off/climb-out.
>
> I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
> into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
> and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
> continue to add power along with additional roughness.
>
> Background info:
>
> Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
> roughness.
>
> On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
> 2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
>
> Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA
> and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
> asking for status).
>
> Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
> rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
>
> Thanks!
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ
>
>
> **
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Get a *free MP3* every day with the Spinner.com toolbar. Get It Now<http://toolbar.aol.com/spinner/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000021>.
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Any engine running that rich, long enough, will leave lots of soot on the
bottom of the plane and it will be caked up well in the exhaust too. Have a
look. Little or no soot and the problem is not too rich.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
As a firm believer in doing the easiest, cheapest thing first, check your
tank venting. Next, do a plug check. Let the engine enter its rough running,
shut the engine off and glide in. Plug color is an inexact method, per the
Bing manual, but if your engine is running so rich as to run rough you
should see the fuel contamination on the insulator. Worth what you paid for
it.
Rick
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM, wrote:
Don, I had a similar problem even with the rubber hose. Seems the carb
reacts to the varing speed of the air coming into it after the 90 degree
turn. The fix was making a divider vane of .20 aluminum sized to slip snug
inside the rubber tube at the bend that divides and channels the air just
before it enters the Bing. Worked for me. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 1:03 am
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
_____
Get a free MP3 every day with the Spinner.com toolbar. Get It Now
<http://toolbar.aol.com/spinner/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000021> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Even assuming the incoming charge is aligned properly, near WOT there is a
large increase in fuel dumped at the end of the collector feeding #1 and #2
and this will show up on the plugs as suggested by Noel. I have been
experimenting with a 1.5L tapered plenum in place of the Jab collector and
the effect near WOT is dramatic causing breakdown and black smoke. Because
of internal losses the Jab collector does not normally breakdown , but will
usually run rich on #1 and #2 when the butterfly is near fully opened.
At smaller throttle settings the butterfly turbulence probably contributes
to even distribution of the charge.
I discovered that it is not easy to design an intake to be fed from the end,
it should be fed from the bottom but I have no space.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Loveys
Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2009 12:19 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
The way to tell an over rich condition is to check the plugs. There will
always be a good dose of soot on them if you land immediately. The fuel
flow and pressure tests will show a rich condition too. Generally an over
rich condition makes the engine sluggish and you start to have problems as
you pull the throttle back as the plugs have to clear themselves enough to
keep the engine running.
One other problem you may have is low octane rating on the fuel. That could
sure cause your engine to get rough at top end rpm.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:51 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
It sounds like it may be too rich under the load conditions at WOT cruise.
The fuel bowl is fitted with 2.25mm needle valve seat which is meant for
gravity feed, but they have selected the power needle as a compromise. If
you are using a fuel pump it may cause the needle valve seat to leak and
overfill the fuel bowl causing excessive rich mixture near max rpm.
Another cause of over rich mixture is due to the starting choke not fully
closing due to friction in the cable.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miguel Azevedo" <azevedoflyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Don,
Maybe your air intake system is acting - or is designed to act - as a ram
charged?
Contrary to what was stated before, you might be running LEAN, because your
jetting cannot compensate for additional air mass rammed in during cruise.
Failing that, check any and all rubber sleeves you might have in your intake
manifold. Just one allowing "false" air into the intake tube will make your
engine rattle and shake in a frightening manner!
Miguel Azevedo
N8714D
PA22/20-150
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Don Honabach wrote:
> I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
> either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it
> feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the
> issue so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
>
>
> Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
> take-off/climb-out.
>
>
> I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
> into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
> and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
> continue to add power along with additional roughness.
>
>
> Background info:
>
>
> Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
> roughness.
>
>
> On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
> 2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
>
>
> Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA
> and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
> asking for status).
>
>
> Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
> rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Don Honabach
>
> Tempe, AZ
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Don:
I believe Jon's DVD "3300 Engine Installation" video may have the
answer to your problem. This was shot by Jon at one of Pete's engine
installation seminars.
Pete says on the video that at wide-open-throttle if you are getting
too much fuel it would result in cooler EGT's and shaking. If your
EGT's are closer to 1,000F than 1300F it is running cool due to the
rich mixture. He says the solution is a smaller main jet. He says
about two-thirds of the Jabiru engines have had to decrease their jet
size. At another point he says they are shipped with 285's and you
should ask for the next lower. bingcarb .com has a good book on the
carb and it helped me with carb problems on our first 3300 on a 601.
Pete also said that they would be carrying the smaller jets but you
can also talk to the experts at Bing which I believe is in Kansas.
For information on the 3300 installation I think Jon's DVD is a must
have. Five hours of excellent information.
Stan Challgren
701/3300
Evergreen, CO
On Jan 12, 2009, at 23:03 , Don Honabach wrote:
> I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle
> either in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough
> that it feels like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't
> want to push the issue so I pull back on the throttle until the
> roughness goes away.
>
> Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
> take-off/climb-out.
>
> I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease
> real slow into full throttle from cruise that I still get the
> roughness but not as bad and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx
> and then start to degrade as I continue to add power along with
> additional roughness.
>
> Background info:
>
> Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
> roughness.
>
> On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
> 2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
>
> Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru
> USA and haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent
> another today asking for status).
>
> Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with
> the rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
>
> Thanks!
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the
response - THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but
now my left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than
the right side in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast,
when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is
pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM
increases. Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always
gets rid of the roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT
situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going
above 2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Stan,
The problem I have with that approach is that the selection of jets and
needles is being made to compensate for a leaking float valve needle seat.
The fuel needle seats are not all going to leak at the same rate.
It seems to me that this is a poor way to tune an engine. I think the carb
should first be assembled to Bing specifications for the application with
pump feed.
Then select jets and needles.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley
Challgren
Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Don:
I believe Jon's DVD "3300 Engine Installation" video may have the answer to
your problem. This was shot by Jon at one of Pete's engine installation
seminars.
Pete says on the video that at wide-open-throttle if you are getting too
much fuel it would result in cooler EGT's and shaking. If your EGT's are
closer to 1,000F than 1300F it is running cool due to the rich mixture. He
says the solution is a smaller main jet. He says about two-thirds of the
Jabiru engines have had to decrease their jet size. At another point he
says they are shipped with 285's and you should ask for the next lower.
bingcarb .com has a good book on the carb and it helped me with carb
problems on our first 3300 on a 601. Pete also said that they would be
carrying the smaller jets but you can also talk to the experts at Bing which
I believe is in Kansas.
For information on the 3300 installation I think Jon's DVD is a must have.
Five hours of excellent information.
Stan Challgren
701/3300
Evergreen, CO
On Jan 12, 2009, at 23:03 , Don Honabach wrote:
I'm having an issue where during cruise flight if I go full throttle either
in straight and level or climb, the engine gets rough enough that it feels
like it will quit. At this point, I obviously don't want to push the issue
so I pull back on the throttle until the roughness goes away.
Interestingly, I have no problem with full throttle roughness on
take-off/climb-out.
I also did some additional testing today and found that if I ease real slow
into full throttle from cruise that I still get the roughness but not as bad
and that the RPM will increase up to ~2,9xx and then start to degrade as I
continue to add power along with additional roughness.
Background info:
Full Throttle Static RPM/Ground Run Up is ~2,800RPM. No issues with
roughness.
On my 601HDS, I have a 3300A with the Sensenich Carbon Prop (64"?
2A0J5R64Z-N) that was purchased from Jabiru USA/Pete K. back in 2006.
Any help greatly appreciated. I've sent this same question to Jabiru USA and
haven't gotten a response yet (sent last Thursday and sent another today
asking for status).
Initially thought it was the SCAT intake hose which I replaced with the
rubber 90 degree elbow. Same issue with either intake method.
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue... |
Don,
During static runs and during climb at WOT the manifold pressure is
relatively close to 1 atmosphere but as the aircraft accelerates the vacuum
increases and manifold pressure goes down .
As manifold pressure varies, the distribution of the fuel/air mix through
the collector varies, and similarly as the velocity of incoming air
increases the turbulence and pressure profile through the system also
varies. Alignment of the butterfly also alters the distribution to R or L
because of the central vane in the collector.
Possibly removing that vane would improve the situation, but that would be a
challenge to the original development.
Like you I have also watched as EGT goes moves to favour R or L as the plane
accelerates to max cruise and on a couple of occasions encountered extreme
roughness due to the engine "boxing" with uneven power R to L due to the
difference in mixture. The engine started shaking.
But if you follow Pete's advice you should eventually find a setting that is
satisfactory. The charge distribution is never going to be perfect
throughout the power range .
Peter.
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2009 2:19 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the response -
THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400 versus
1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but now my left
side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than the right side
in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast, when
I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is pretty
bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM increases. Also,
pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always gets rid of the
roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT situations,
it would appear that when the engine is capable of going above 2900 RPM that
the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
If this is any help I recall reading on the lists about the rubber coupling from
carb to intake spider having a groove or step inside where fuel droplets cavitate
and sit in a pool at times of operation. some have dealt to this by fitting
an 'inner' sleeve tapered to make a smooth transition with no step.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224860#224860
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue... |
Don,
Other than the smooth 90 degree rubber hose, the other thing I did to solve the
*EXACT* problem you have was to get a smaller MID jet. I think, like David,
I went from a 285 to a 280. I don't have the paperwork with me, but I'm pretty
sure thats what it was.
The jet & the intake are the only things I have changed.
My EGT's looked just like yours in the graph.
..lance
--------
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224867#224867
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue... |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Don, I don't have a functioning EGT but what you describe with RPM and
roughness is just what I'm experiencing on my Esqual with a 3300 Jabiru
#1460. I've only got 15 hours on the engine and am chasing other issues
for now so I'm very interested in the resolution. From what I've heard
in the past and read about the Bing I'm in the main jet size change
solution camp. Very interested in how you get on working the solution.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 14 January 2009 16:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the
response - THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but
now my left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than
the right side in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast,
when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is
pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM
increases. Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always
gets rid of the roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT
situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going
above 2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Andy,
> That is a very informative post.
> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the fuel
> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of turbulence.
> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel droplets
> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector) until
> they reach the end.
> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated from
> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we have an
> end fed plenum (or collector).
> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200, but
> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the charge
> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
> Peter
>
Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
list that has to do with Bing carb
tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I'd love to hear any real world results of the AeroCarb on Zenith 601s.
I also personally would love a fuel ejected fully computerized control
setup for the 3300 as well!!!!!
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 17:45
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Andy,
> That is a very informative post.
> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the
fuel
> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of
turbulence.
> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel
droplets
> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
until
> they reach the end.
> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated
from
> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we
have an
> end fed plenum (or collector).
> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200,
but
> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the
charge
> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
> Peter
>
Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
list that has to do with Bing carb
tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue. |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Clive,
I've had some positive results in fixing my roughness issue, but I'm
still working out the details.
Here's what I've got so far...
I appear to have an air intake issue. Flying without the air intake
system and just the carb open to the cowling area and the plane flies
extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for everything except the
last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so I had an in flight
max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness. Before the pitch
change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
I'm going to be installing various modified air intake setups over the
next few weeks and will post my results.
For what it's worth, after re-pitching and flying without the air intake
system, the plane is amazing. I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and
300 feet per minute or more in climb and the engine is much smoother in
all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about getting a good intake system
designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side" of this engine.
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
James, Clive R
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 15:22
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Don, I don't have a functioning EGT but what you describe with RPM and
roughness is just what I'm experiencing on my Esqual with a 3300 Jabiru
#1460. I've only got 15 hours on the engine and am chasing other issues
for now so I'm very interested in the resolution. From what I've heard
in the past and read about the Bing I'm in the main jet size change
solution camp. Very interested in how you get on working the solution.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 14 January 2009 16:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the
response - THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but
now my left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than
the right side in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast,
when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is
pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM
increases. Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always
gets rid of the roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT
situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going
above 2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
J
I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the slide
to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
ignored.
I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low throttle
settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
of the correspondence.
When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
I would not have the conscience to give it away .
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. davis
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Andy,
> That is a very informative post.
> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the fuel
> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of turbulence.
> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel droplets
> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
until
> they reach the end.
> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated from
> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we have an
> end fed plenum (or collector).
> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200, but
> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the charge
> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
> Peter
>
Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
list that has to do with Bing carb
tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue. |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Thanks Don, mine is just the last bit and only at high revs. In the
climb at 2800 it's smooth enough but then that a different situation to
3000 plus.
I will drop off the scat from the carb for elimination of that issue,
that's a great idea.
I have oversized scat tube on the carb which I'm hoping will help with
airflow but then I suppose that could be the cause.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 16 January 2009 04:27
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Clive,
I've had some positive results in fixing my roughness issue, but I'm
still working out the details.
Here's what I've got so far...
I appear to have an air intake issue. Flying without the air intake
system and just the carb open to the cowling area and the plane flies
extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for everything except the
last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so I had an in flight
max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness. Before the pitch
change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
I'm going to be installing various modified air intake setups over the
next few weeks and will post my results.
For what it's worth, after re-pitching and flying without the air intake
system, the plane is amazing. I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and
300 feet per minute or more in climb and the engine is much smoother in
all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about getting a good intake system
designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side" of this engine.
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
James, Clive R
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 15:22
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Don, I don't have a functioning EGT but what you describe with RPM and
roughness is just what I'm experiencing on my Esqual with a 3300 Jabiru
#1460. I've only got 15 hours on the engine and am chasing other issues
for now so I'm very interested in the resolution. From what I've heard
in the past and read about the Bing I'm in the main jet size change
solution camp. Very interested in how you get on working the solution.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 14 January 2009 16:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the
response - THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but
now my left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than
the right side in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast,
when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is
pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM
increases. Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always
gets rid of the roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT
situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going
above 2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous
nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue. |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Here is an interesting web site,if? they only would supply a set up for the Jabiru.
(Experimental fuel injection.com).Lots of help for Rotax.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 8:27 pm
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Clive,
?
I've had some positive results in
fixing my roughness issue, but I'm still working out the details.
?
Here's what I've got so far...
?
I appear to have an air intake
issue. Flying without the air intake system and just the carb open to the
cowling area and the plane flies extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for
everything except the last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so
I had an in flight max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness.
Before the pitch change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
?
I'm going to be installing
various modified air intake setups over the next few weeks and will post my
results.
?
For what it's worth, after
re-pitching and flying without the air intake system, the plane is amazing.
I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and 300 feet per minute or more in climb
and the engine is much smoother in all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about
getting a good intake system designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side"
of this engine.
?
Don
?
?
From:
owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James,
Clive R
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 15:22
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
?
Don, I don't have a functioning EGT but what you describe with RPM
and roughness is just what I'm experiencing on my Esqual with?a 3300
Jabiru #1460. I've only got 15 hours on the engine and am chasing other issues
for now so I'm very interested in the resolution. From what I've heard in the
past and read about the Bing I'm in the main jet size change solution camp.
Very interested in how you get on working the solution.
?
Regards, Clive
?
From:
owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Sent: 14 January 2009 16:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take? moment and thank everyone that
responded to my question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing
the response - THANK YOU!).
?
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a
bit more investigation...
?
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my
engine are significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but now my
left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than the right
side in general (~1359 ?verus 1290).
?
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is
~2,850 and there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In
contrast, when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness
is pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM increases.
Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always gets rid of the
roughness.
?
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both
WOT situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going above
2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
?
Any thoughts?
?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and
full power cruise:
?
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
?
Thanks!
Don
?
?
?
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com???????? - List Contribution Web generous nbsp;??????????????????????? --> http://www.matronics.com/c
?
No virus
found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009
07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue... |
| From: | "David Brown" <dbrown(at)avecc.com> |
List,
On a similar note that don has observed, a month or so ago I was doing a
touch and go when I inadvertently left the carb heat on. While making
the climb out I noticed that the EGT's and CHT's had all evened out and
looked the best that they ever had. I now wonder if it was warm air
causing better atomization, or just the air intake system. Has any one
else noticed this and if so what are you thoughts.
David
N601EX Jab3300
I appear to have an air intake issue. Flying without the air intake
system and just the carb open to the cowling area and the plane flies
extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for everything except the
last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so I had an in flight
max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness. Before the pitch
change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
I'm going to be installing various modified air intake setups over the
next few weeks and will post my results.
For what it's worth, after re-pitching and flying without the air intake
system, the plane is amazing. I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and
300 feet per minute or more in climb and the engine is much smoother in
all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about getting a good intake system
designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side" of this engine.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
You're right, Lynn, apologies. Must be advancing years or British beer for
the last couple of months that have taken their toll. Back in Brazil very
soon with a healthier diet and more brain exercise, no doubt. There may
well be others with the older couplers and the 'gap' who might be interested
though. Unfortunately, the only way to find out is to remove it and look
inside.
Cheers, Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 16 January 2009 11:08
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
But do you remember, Andy, when I reported back in about April of last year
that my rubber coupler had a built-up ridge that filled this gap? I
mentioned this and you said that the coupler supplier must have made this
change in the later models. Here is picture of that ridge. It is the
square-ish ridge between the two humps that fit into the grooves of the carb
and the intake adapter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> J
> I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
> personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
> The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
> The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the slide
> to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
> off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
> A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
> ignored.
> I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low throttle
> settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
> makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
> I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
> of the correspondence.
> When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
> I would not have the conscience to give it away .
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. davis
> Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:45 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>
>
> Peter Harris wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>> That is a very informative post.
>> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
>> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
>> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
>> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the fuel
>> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
>> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of turbulence.
>> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel droplets
>> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
> until
>> they reach the end.
>> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated from
>> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
>> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we have an
>> end fed plenum (or collector).
>> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200, but
>> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the charge
>> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
>> Peter
>>
>
> Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
> list that has to do with Bing carb
> tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
> alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
> with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
> Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
>
>
Yes, you had an early model, and there were some sticky slide issues
back then. (owners of the early models can get them refitted by Sonex) I
have a newer model, and combined with the AeroConversions Throttle
Quadrant which works with the newest AeroCarbs fitted with optional pull
control (again, older AeroCarbs may be upgraded for pull control),
sticky slides are a thing of the past, as far as I can tell.
There was a period of needle height adjustment that needed to be done to
get the right mixture over the full range, but once set up, shouldn't
need to be done much, if any, again. Certainly not seasonally.
I've got nothing against Bings, had two of them on my 912, never needed
to touch them (except for the occasional synchronizing). Got em on my
Beemer bike(s), too. I was just attracted to the simplicity and
efficiency of the AeroCarb, and so far, I'm not disappointed.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue. |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
David,
Great tail number, my is N601DX :)
It may be that the warm arm or additional air input to the airbox causes
less turbulence at the carb intake and distributes the air/fuel mix
better ???
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Brown
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 07:23
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
List,
On a similar note that don has observed, a month or so ago I was doing a
touch and go when I inadvertently left the carb heat on. While making
the climb out I noticed that the EGT's and CHT's had all evened out and
looked the best that they ever had. I now wonder if it was warm air
causing better atomization, or just the air intake system. Has any one
else noticed this and if so what are you thoughts.
David
N601EX Jab3300
I appear to have an air intake issue. Flying without the air intake
system and just the carb open to the cowling area and the plane flies
extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for everything except the
last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so I had an in flight
max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness. Before the pitch
change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
I'm going to be installing various modified air intake setups over the
next few weeks and will post my results.
For what it's worth, after re-pitching and flying without the air intake
system, the plane is amazing. I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and
300 feet per minute or more in climb and the engine is much smoother in
all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about getting a good intake system
designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side" of this engine.
Don
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Full Thorttle Roughness Issue. |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Clive,
I don't know if it matters, but I also plugged up the air intake scat
inlet with a hand towel to prevent a bunch of air blowing right behind
the carb intake for my tests. (My intake output sits on the firewall and
the output points at angle towards the carb.)
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
James, Clive R
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 00:04
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Thanks Don, mine is just the last bit and only at high revs. In the
climb at 2800 it's smooth enough but then that a different situation to
3000 plus.
I will drop off the scat from the carb for elimination of that issue,
that's a great idea.
I have oversized scat tube on the carb which I'm hoping will help with
airflow but then I suppose that could be the cause.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 16 January 2009 04:27
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Clive,
I've had some positive results in fixing my roughness issue, but I'm
still working out the details.
Here's what I've got so far...
I appear to have an air intake issue. Flying without the air intake
system and just the carb open to the cowling area and the plane flies
extremely smooth. This fixed the roughness for everything except the
last 1/4" of throttle travel. Repitching the prop so I had an in flight
max of ~3300 RPM fixed the last 1/4" of roughness. Before the pitch
change, my max out in straight and level was 3000 RPM.
I'm going to be installing various modified air intake setups over the
next few weeks and will post my results.
For what it's worth, after re-pitching and flying without the air intake
system, the plane is amazing. I've gained about 5 to 10 MPH in speed and
300 feet per minute or more in climb and the engine is much smoother in
all RPM ranges. I'm really excited about getting a good intake system
designed :) now that I'm seen the "other side" of this engine.
Don
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
James, Clive R
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 15:22
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue.
Don, I don't have a functioning EGT but what you describe with RPM and
roughness is just what I'm experiencing on my Esqual with a 3300 Jabiru
#1460. I've only got 15 hours on the engine and am chasing other issues
for now so I'm very interested in the resolution. From what I've heard
in the past and read about the Bing I'm in the main jet size change
solution camp. Very interested in how you get on working the solution.
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: 14 January 2009 16:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Full Thorttle Roughness Issue...
I just wanted to take moment and thank everyone that responded to my
question both on-list and off (WOW - just absolutely amazing the
response - THANK YOU!).
>From the various suggestions I decided that I needed to do a bit more
investigation...
During take-off AND WOT the EGTs on the right side of my engine are
significantly higher than the left. The max difference being ~1400
versus 1100F. However, during cruise, everything tends to even out but
now my left side (or at least cylinders #6 and #4) have higher EGTs than
the right side in general (~1359 verus 1290).
What is interesting is that my max RPM on take-off at WOT is ~2,850 and
there is no roughness at all despite the same EGT profile. In contrast,
when I do WOT in cruise the RPM maxes out at 3,000 and the roughness is
pretty bad and starts at about 2900RPM and gets worse as the RPM
increases. Also, pulling back so that the RPM is less than 2900 always
gets rid of the roughness.
So while the EGT profiles are essentially the same for both WOT
situations, it would appear that when the engine is capable of going
above 2900 RPM that the roughness occurs.
Any thoughts?
If interested, here are the two plot graphs for take-off and full power
cruise:
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-TakeOff.pdf
http://support.pcperfect.com/EGTs-WOT-Cruise.pdf
Thanks!
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://www.matronics.com/c=
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46 <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sonex Aircraft Responds to Peter Harris |
| From: | Sonex Tech Support <tech(at)sonexaircraft.com> |
Good Morning Jabiru Enthusiast,
We at Sonex Aircraft LLC and AeroConversions LLC like to remain "hands-off"
on the public lists but we do feel it is necessary to respond to Peter
Harris (whose posting is copied at the bottom of this response) directly in
this public forum.
Specifically:
Mr. Harris was supplied an AeroCarb which had an anodized aluminum slide
with a thin delrin anti-friction gasket. He states he was supplied an
Aerocarb with "no teflon liner". We have never offered a "teflon liner",
though earlier AeroCarbs had teflon coated slides with no delrin gasket.
Those were discontinued in favor of the anodized slide delrin gasket, which
we continue to supply as standard equipment. His claims that we offer a
teflon liner on the website are simply incorrect. He is perhaps confusing
the delrin gasket with a "teflon slide".
The outrigged throttle attachment performs well when properly installed.
Proper installation is described in full detail in the AeroCarb's
installation manual, including specific part numbers for rod ends, throttle
cables, etc. Current AeroCarbs are shipped with an additional, alternative
throttle connection which eliminates any chance of binding caused by
improper installation, but requires a reversing throttle quadrant.
Mr. Harris packed his AeroCarb with grease. Grease may be great on bulldozer
tracks and railroad car couplers but has no place in an AeroCarb.
We stand behind our products 100%. We asked Mr. Harris to return his
AeroCarb for a free warranty inspection. He declined, stating it was "futile
to return the carb unless you are willing to resolve the design issues". We
asked for photos of his installation and they were never provided. Mr.
Harris declined to accept the help we were offering and was clear he would
not have been happy with any effort we would have made short of redesigning
our product to his specific desires.
Here is the full text of the final email sent (March 9, 2007) from the Sonex
Aircraft tech support desk to Mr. Harris:
---Begin
Hi Peter,
We have more experience than anyone with the AeroCarb. Your binding is not
normal which means there is an installation error or a defective part. We
are asking you once more to return the carb for a warranty inspection, and
to send us photos of your installation. Barring that we are unable to help
you.
If you you do not wish to take advantage of the warranty service/inspection
of your AeroCarb, then we ask that you do not advise others on how to "fix"
or install their AeroCarb, and when sharing your experience with others
please be sure to tell them that we asked for the carb back for a warranty
inspection and asked for photos to help diagnose your installation. We are
not aware of any unresolved AeroCarb problems from customers who were
willing to install the Aerocarb per our instructions and/or return their
carb for inspection when problems occurred. We do know of people who have
refused to work with us and have either given up on their Aerocarb, or have
gone to great and unnecessary lengths to "fix" it.
We stand behind our products 100%, for the safety of others, which is why we
have repeatedly asked for photos of your installation and the return of your
AeroCarb for inspection.
---End
We have supported hundreds of AeroCarb installations on a wide variety of
aircraft and engines. I have personally flown my AeroCarb-equipped Jabiru
3300-powered Sonex over 400 hours in the last 4.5 years. It bears repeating
- no one has more experience with the AeroCarb than we do - and no one is
more qualified than us to support our product.
This will be our only post on the topic. If you have questions about the
AeroCarb we encourage you to visit our websites:
www.aeroconversions.com
www.sonexaircraft.com
Or email us directly at the addresses listed below.
Blue Skies,
Kerry Fores
Sonex Aircraft LLC
PO Box 2521
Oshkosh, WI 54903-2521
Tech Line: (920) 230-TECH (8324)
Mon, Wed. and Fri. 10 AM to 12 AM and 2PM to 4PM CT
Orders and General Info:
Ph.920-231-8297
Fax (920) 426-8333
http://www.sonexaircraft.com
Please use the following e-mail addresses to Contact Sonex Aircraft:
Sales Info: sales(at)sonexaircraft.com
Orders: orders(at)sonexaircraft.com
Accounting: accounting(at)sonexaircraft.com
Tech Support: tech(at)sonexaircraft.com
___________________________________________
Subject: RE: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
From: Peter Harris (peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com)
Date: Thu Jan 15 - 8:46 PM
J
I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the slide
to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
ignored.
I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low throttle
settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
of the correspondence.
When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
I would not have the conscience to give it away .
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Ronco" <joe(at)halzel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
Or you could trade it in for a new UL Power (www.ulpower.com) Model UL350i
(same or better performance as the 3300) and get EFI/FADEC as standard. No
messing with carburetors, carb heat or carb ice, fuel distribution etc. ULP
has also introduced redundancy options for the ECU.
See: http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-qa-ecu.htm. Click on link at bottom of
page for schematics of optional ECU arrangements.
See attachments for preliminary UL350i specifications and performance. ULP
is fine tuning/optimizing the UL350i design with release to the market
expected 2Q/3Q 2009.
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'd love to hear any real world results of the AeroCarb on Zenith 601s.
I also personally would love a fuel ejected fully computerized control
setup for the 3300 as well!!!!!
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 17:45
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Andy,
> That is a very informative post.
> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the
fuel
> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of
turbulence.
> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel
droplets
> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
until
> they reach the end.
> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated
from
> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we
have an
> end fed plenum (or collector).
> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200,
but
> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the
charge
> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
> Peter
>
Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
list that has to do with Bing carb
tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
J
The throttle quadrant does nothing to solve the basic design fault which is
due to the cable attachment off centre and not co planar causing the slide
to twist when moved, and the increased load due to friction on the slide
when it is moved at low throttle settings.
But it is not only the design issues but also the attitude of the CEO as he
was not prepared to supply me with the Teflon insert listed on his web site
and resorted to personal abuse when I suggested some design changes that
would solve the problem.
There have been engine failures and a forced landing due to jammed slides.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. davis
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> J
> I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
> personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
> The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
> The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the
slide
> to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
> off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
> A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
> ignored.
> I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low
throttle
> settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
> makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
> I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
> of the correspondence.
> When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
> I would not have the conscience to give it away .
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
> Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:45 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>
>
> Peter Harris wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>> That is a very informative post.
>> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
>> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
>> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
>> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the fuel
>> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
>> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of turbulence.
>> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel
droplets
>> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
> until
>> they reach the end.
>> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated
from
>> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
>> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we have
an
>> end fed plenum (or collector).
>> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200, but
>> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the
charge
>> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
>> Peter
>>
>
> Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
> list that has to do with Bing carb
> tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
> alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
> with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
> Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
>
>
Yes, you had an early model, and there were some sticky slide issues
back then. (owners of the early models can get them refitted by Sonex) I
have a newer model, and combined with the AeroConversions Throttle
Quadrant which works with the newest AeroCarbs fitted with optional pull
control (again, older AeroCarbs may be upgraded for pull control),
sticky slides are a thing of the past, as far as I can tell.
There was a period of needle height adjustment that needed to be done to
get the right mixture over the full range, but once set up, shouldn't
need to be done much, if any, again. Certainly not seasonally.
I've got nothing against Bings, had two of them on my 912, never needed
to touch them (except for the occasional synchronizing). Got em on my
Beemer bike(s), too. I was just attracted to the simplicity and
efficiency of the AeroCarb, and so far, I'm not disappointed.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnDRead(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sonex Aircraft Responds to Peter Harris |
Why would anyone pack a carbureteur with greae, the Bing is not unlike a SU
carb and I recall that they used a small amount of VERY light oil as a damper
for the slide. Mr Harris needs to say "thankyou" and return his carb to you
as you have suggested. Please no flame!
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:21:29 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
tech(at)sonexaircraft.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Sonex Tech Support
Good Morning Jabiru Enthusiast,
We at Sonex Aircraft LLC and AeroConversions LLC like to remain "hands-off"
on the public lists but we do feel it is necessary to respond to Peter
Harris (whose posting is copied at the bottom of this response) directly in
this public forum.
Specifically:
Mr. Harris was supplied an AeroCarb which had an anodized aluminum slide
with a thin delrin anti-friction gasket. He states he was supplied an
Aerocarb with "no teflon liner". We have never offered a "teflon liner",
though earlier AeroCarbs had teflon coated slides with no delrin gasket.
Those were discontinued in favor of the anodized slide delrin gasket, which
we continue to supply as standard equipment. His claims that we offer a
teflon liner on the website are simply incorrect. He is perhaps confusing
the delrin gasket with a "teflon slide".
The outrigged throttle attachment performs well when properly installed.
Proper installation is described in full detail in the AeroCarb's
installation manual, including specific part numbers for rod ends, throttle
cables, etc. Current AeroCarbs are shipped with an additional, alternative
throttle connection which eliminates any chance of binding caused by
improper installation, but requires a reversing throttle quadrant.
Mr. Harris packed his AeroCarb with grease. Grease may be great on bulldozer
tracks and railroad car couplers but has no place in an AeroCarb.
We stand behind our products 100%. We asked Mr. Harris to return his
AeroCarb for a free warranty inspection. He declined, stating it was "futile
to return the carb unless you are willing to resolve the design issues". We
asked for photos of his installation and they were never provided. Mr.
Harris declined to accept the help we were offering and was clear he would
not have been happy with any effort we would have made short of redesigning
our product to his specific desires.
Here is the full text of the final email sent (March 9, 2007) from the Sonex
Aircraft tech support desk to Mr. Harris:
---Begin
Hi Peter,
We have more experience than anyone with the AeroCarb. Your binding is not
normal which means there is an installation error or a defective part. We
are asking you once more to return the carb for a warranty inspection, and
to send us photos of your installation. Barring that we are unable to help
you.
If you you do not wish to take advantage of the warranty service/inspection
of your AeroCarb, then we ask that you do not advise others on how to "fix"
or install their AeroCarb, and when sharing your experience with others
please be sure to tell them that we asked for the carb back for a warranty
inspection and asked for photos to help diagnose your installation. We are
not aware of any unresolved AeroCarb problems from customers who were
willing to install the Aerocarb per our instructions and/or return their
carb for inspection when problems occurred. We do know of people who have
refused to work with us and have either given up on their Aerocarb, or have
gone to great and unnecessary lengths to "fix" it.
We stand behind our products 100%, for the safety of others, which is why we
have repeatedly asked for photos of your installation and the return of your
AeroCarb for inspection.
---End
We have supported hundreds of AeroCarb installations on a wide variety of
aircraft and engines. I have personally flown my AeroCarb-equipped Jabiru
3300-powered Sonex over 400 hours in the last 4.5 years. It bears repeating
- no one has more experience with the AeroCarb than we do - and no one is
more qualified than us to support our product.
This will be our only post on the topic. If you have questions about the
AeroCarb we encourage you to visit our websites:
www.aeroconversions.com
www.sonexaircraft.com
Or email us directly at the addresses listed below.
Blue Skies,
Kerry Fores
Sonex Aircraft LLC
PO Box 2521
Oshkosh, WI 54903-2521
Tech Line: (920) 230-TECH (8324)
Mon, Wed. and Fri. 10 AM to 12 AM and 2PM to 4PM CT
Orders and General Info:
Ph.920-231-8297
Fax (920) 426-8333
http://www.sonexaircraft.com
Please use the following e-mail addresses to Contact Sonex Aircraft:
Sales Info: sales(at)sonexaircraft.com
Orders: orders(at)sonexaircraft.com
Accounting: accounting(at)sonexaircraft.com
Tech Support: tech(at)sonexaircraft.com
___________________________________________
Subject: RE: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
From: Peter Harris (peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com)
Date: Thu Jan 15 - 8:46 PM
J
I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the slide
to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
ignored.
I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low throttle
settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
of the correspondence.
When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
I would not have the conscience to give it away .
Peter
**************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Flowers" <sonex229(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
BALONEY TO your failed engine statement due to the Aero-Vee carb. Verify one
that can be proven to be caused by the carb,,..Regards Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>
>
> J
> The throttle quadrant does nothing to solve the basic design fault which
> is
> due to the cable attachment off centre and not co planar causing the slide
> to twist when moved, and the increased load due to friction on the slide
> when it is moved at low throttle settings.
> But it is not only the design issues but also the attitude of the CEO as
> he
> was not prepared to supply me with the Teflon insert listed on his web
> site
> and resorted to personal abuse when I suggested some design changes that
> would solve the problem.
> There have been engine failures and a forced landing due to jammed slides.
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
> Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 12:25 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>
>
> Peter Harris wrote:
>
>>
>> J
>> I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
>> personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon
>> liner.
>> The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
>> The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the
> slide
>> to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
>> off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
>> A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
>> ignored.
>> I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low
> throttle
>> settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
>> makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
>> I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a
>> copy
>> of the correspondence.
>> When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
>> I would not have the conscience to give it away .
>> Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
>> Sent: Friday, 16 January 2009 10:45 AM
>> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
>>
>>
>> Peter Harris wrote:
>>
>>> Andy,
>>> That is a very informative post.
>>> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
>>> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
>>> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
>>> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the fuel
>>> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
>>> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of turbulence.
>>> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel
> droplets
>>> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
>> until
>>> they reach the end.
>>> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated
> from
>>> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
>>> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we have
> an
>>> end fed plenum (or collector).
>>> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200,
>>> but
>>> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the
> charge
>>> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
>>> Peter
>>>
>>
>> Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
>> list that has to do with Bing carb
>> tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
>> alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
>> with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
>> Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, you had an early model, and there were some sticky slide issues
> back then. (owners of the early models can get them refitted by Sonex) I
> have a newer model, and combined with the AeroConversions Throttle
> Quadrant which works with the newest AeroCarbs fitted with optional pull
> control (again, older AeroCarbs may be upgraded for pull control),
> sticky slides are a thing of the past, as far as I can tell.
>
> There was a period of needle height adjustment that needed to be done to
> get the right mixture over the full range, but once set up, shouldn't
> need to be done much, if any, again. Certainly not seasonally.
>
> I've got nothing against Bings, had two of them on my 912, never needed
> to touch them (except for the occasional synchronizing). Got em on my
> Beemer bike(s), too. I was just attracted to the simplicity and
> efficiency of the AeroCarb, and so far, I'm not disappointed.
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
> make a vacuum cleaner.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Sonex Aircraft Responds to Peter Harris |
Good evening Aerocarb enthusiasts.
I suggest that this is not the place to conduct an Aerocarb argument and I
will not be responding further except to correct the record. My carb slide
was not coated with any product, it was anodized and ran on the Delrin
gasket which however was fitted on one side only, and on the uncoated
anodized surface of the frame on it's face. My contact with the supplier was
based on preliminary bench testing when I reported the very high friction
between these two uncoated anodized surfaces which were jamming due to the
off centre action of the lever, and I requested the Teflon coated slide
option offered on the website at the time. I made the request three times
but was ignored.
Then I used grease and found a big improvement in bench testing and so I
completed the installation but subsequently the slide jammed when I started
the engine.
The cable installation was strictly according to Aerocarb instructions, but
the off centre action of the carb lever assembly which is part of the
product design, caused twisting and jamming at low throttle settings when
there is significant pressure on the slide.
>From the responses from the supplier I formed the opinion that Aerocarb were
making very strong efforts to blame my installation for the issues even
though my complaint and suggestions were based on bench testing and
consequently I decided not to return it until the design issues were
addressed. The response from Aerocarb below confirms that others have had
similar problems with the product.
When another operator at my field suffered jamming of his Teflon coated
slide on late final (Sonex J2200) and was forced to recover with the
adjustment of flap I decided that the carb was unsafe and requested a return
for credit.
I was refused warranty and told to sell it on eBay.
Anyone who is curious to know what really happened may contact me direct
(except for those on this site engaged in Aerocarb promotion) as I have a
complete record of all of the correspondence.
Qualified as an engineer I have given my informed opinion about what I
consider to be basic design faults in the product which could be very easily
fixed. You may like to inspect the product and decide for yourself.
If you decide to use the Aerocarb I suggest that you make sure you have a
slide that is coated preferably with Teflon on both sides and be very
careful in operation at the lower throttle settings or with quick throttle
movements.
However based on my own experience I can only assume that the Teflon coated
slide is no longer available.
Take care,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sonex
Tech Support
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 2:19 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sonex Aircraft Responds to Peter Harris
Good Morning Jabiru Enthusiast,
We at Sonex Aircraft LLC and AeroConversions LLC like to remain "hands-off"
on the public lists but we do feel it is necessary to respond to Peter
Harris (whose posting is copied at the bottom of this response) directly in
this public forum.
Specifically:
Mr. Harris was supplied an AeroCarb which had an anodized aluminum slide
with a thin delrin anti-friction gasket. He states he was supplied an
Aerocarb with "no teflon liner". We have never offered a "teflon liner",
though earlier AeroCarbs had teflon coated slides with no delrin gasket.
Those were discontinued in favor of the anodized slide delrin gasket, which
we continue to supply as standard equipment. His claims that we offer a
teflon liner on the website are simply incorrect. He is perhaps confusing
the delrin gasket with a "teflon slide".
The outrigged throttle attachment performs well when properly installed.
Proper installation is described in full detail in the AeroCarb's
installation manual, including specific part numbers for rod ends, throttle
cables, etc. Current AeroCarbs are shipped with an additional, alternative
throttle connection which eliminates any chance of binding caused by
improper installation, but requires a reversing throttle quadrant.
Mr. Harris packed his AeroCarb with grease. Grease may be great on bulldozer
tracks and railroad car couplers but has no place in an AeroCarb.
We stand behind our products 100%. We asked Mr. Harris to return his
AeroCarb for a free warranty inspection. He declined, stating it was "futile
to return the carb unless you are willing to resolve the design issues". We
asked for photos of his installation and they were never provided. Mr.
Harris declined to accept the help we were offering and was clear he would
not have been happy with any effort we would have made short of redesigning
our product to his specific desires.
Here is the full text of the final email sent (March 9, 2007) from the Sonex
Aircraft tech support desk to Mr. Harris:
---Begin
Hi Peter,
We have more experience than anyone with the AeroCarb. Your binding is not
normal which means there is an installation error or a defective part. We
are asking you once more to return the carb for a warranty inspection, and
to send us photos of your installation. Barring that we are unable to help
you.
If you you do not wish to take advantage of the warranty service/inspection
of your AeroCarb, then we ask that you do not advise others on how to "fix"
or install their AeroCarb, and when sharing your experience with others
please be sure to tell them that we asked for the carb back for a warranty
inspection and asked for photos to help diagnose your installation. We are
not aware of any unresolved AeroCarb problems from customers who were
willing to install the Aerocarb per our instructions and/or return their
carb for inspection when problems occurred. We do know of people who have
refused to work with us and have either given up on their Aerocarb, or have
gone to great and unnecessary lengths to "fix" it.
We stand behind our products 100%, for the safety of others, which is why we
have repeatedly asked for photos of your installation and the return of your
AeroCarb for inspection.
---End
We have supported hundreds of AeroCarb installations on a wide variety of
aircraft and engines. I have personally flown my AeroCarb-equipped Jabiru
3300-powered Sonex over 400 hours in the last 4.5 years. It bears repeating
- no one has more experience with the AeroCarb than we do - and no one is
more qualified than us to support our product.
This will be our only post on the topic. If you have questions about the
AeroCarb we encourage you to visit our websites:
www.aeroconversions.com
www.sonexaircraft.com
Or email us directly at the addresses listed below.
Blue Skies,
Kerry Fores
Sonex Aircraft LLC
PO Box 2521
Oshkosh, WI 54903-2521
Tech Line: (920) 230-TECH (8324)
Mon, Wed. and Fri. 10 AM to 12 AM and 2PM to 4PM CT
Orders and General Info:
Ph.920-231-8297
Fax (920) 426-8333
http://www.sonexaircraft.com
Please use the following e-mail addresses to Contact Sonex Aircraft:
Sales Info: sales(at)sonexaircraft.com
Orders: orders(at)sonexaircraft.com
Accounting: accounting(at)sonexaircraft.com
Tech Support: tech(at)sonexaircraft.com
___________________________________________
Subject: RE: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
From: Peter Harris (peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com)
Date: Thu Jan 15 - 8:46 PM
J
I would recommend against using Aerocarb especially on the J3300 based on
personal experience. I was supplied with an Aerocarb with no Teflon liner.
The slide worked on anodized metal to metal and jammed hard.
The slide is pulled and pushed by an outrigged lever which causes the slide
to twist and jam whenever pressure is applied. The attachment to cable is
off centre and not even co planar with the slide.
A Teflon liner is offered on the website but my several requests were
ignored.
I packed it with grease but it still jammed under the vacuum at low throttle
settings and any attempt to quickly open throttle for a missed approach
makes it jam harder because of the offset cable attachment.
I attempted to discuss changes to the design but was abused. I have a copy
of the correspondence.
When I asked for a refund I was told to sell it on eBay.
I would not have the conscience to give it away .
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness |
A good looking engine Joe.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Ronco
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Or you could trade it in for a new UL Power (www.ulpower.com) Model UL350i
(same or better performance as the 3300) and get EFI/FADEC as standard. No
messing with carburetors, carb heat or carb ice, fuel distribution etc. ULP
has also introduced redundancy options for the ECU.
See: http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-qa-ecu.htm. Click on link at bottom of
page for schematics of optional ECU arrangements.
See attachments for preliminary UL350i specifications and performance. ULP
is fine tuning/optimizing the UL350i design with release to the market
expected 2Q/3Q 2009.
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Honabach
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
I'd love to hear any real world results of the AeroCarb on Zenith 601s.
I also personally would love a fuel ejected fully computerized control
setup for the 3300 as well!!!!!
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 17:45
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Andy,
> That is a very informative post.
> I have been testing with a twin injector throttle body feeding an
> unobstructed plenum, then for comparison feeding the Jab collector. My
> fuel/air mix should be better, in fact I tried 60PSI for greater
> atomization, but the charge entered the plenum and too much of the
fuel
> carried through to over richen #1 and 2 near WOT.
> This is an issue independent of the splitter or the type of
turbulence.
> I think it is happening because near WOT a proportion of the fuel
droplets
> have enough energy to accelerate through the plenum (or the collector)
until
> they reach the end.
> This is similar to the principle used by Dyson when dust is separated
from
> the air stream by using it's kinetic energy in a cyclone.
> After endless tests I think the problem is due to the fact that we
have an
> end fed plenum (or collector).
> I plan to reconfigure my plenum for bottom feed similar to the 0-200,
but
> headers will still be unequal and it will not be easy to target the
charge
> for uniform distribution between the 6 outlets.
> Peter
>
Just wondering... there seems to be a preponderance of posting on this
list that has to do with Bing carb
tuning/jetting/adjusting/modifying/etc. Has anyone considered an
alternative? AeroConversion's AeroCarb comes to mind :') I'm quite happy
with mine (Sonex/3300/AeroCarb), and I know that there are many other
Sonex/3300 drivers that are, also.
--
Regards, J.
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
-------------------------------------------------
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they
make a vacuum cleaner.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/15/2009 07:46
to browse
Un/Subscription,
Browse, Chat, FAQ,
more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
Web Forums!
http://forums.matronics.com
support!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: ULPower UL350i |
Besides the fuel injection Fadec stuff, this looks like a "scale 1.5:1
Jabiru 2200". A four cylinder 3.6L engine. My first worry would be the
pulsed power of such big jugs directly driving the propeller.
We already need to be selective on the types of hub and props to use on our
direct drive Jabiru 2200 and 3300 engines, I would request some detailed
information on the torque pulses before ordering a propeller for this
puppy...
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Ronco
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Or you could trade it in for a new UL Power (www.ulpower.com) Model UL350i
(same or better performance as the 3300) and get EFI/FADEC as standard. No
messing with carburetors, carb heat or carb ice, fuel distribution etc. ULP
has also introduced redundancy options for the ECU.
See: http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-qa-ecu.htm. Click on link at bottom of
page for schematics of optional ECU arrangements.
See attachments for preliminary UL350i specifications and performance. ULP
is fine tuning/optimizing the UL350i design with release to the market
expected 2Q/3Q 2009.
Joe R
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ULPower UL350i |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
Like Jabiru did with us UL power are now doing their R+D on customers
planes. Any potential buyers should bear that in mind.
That said I've had hours of fun with my Jab and know it intimately. The
core engine is great and now I have 5th generation heads on it I think
it's quite sorted.
So I'll consider a UL power unit in about 6 years.....
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Turk
Sent: 18 January 2009 09:39
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: ULPower UL350i
Besides the fuel injection Fadec stuff, this looks like a "scale 1.5:1
Jabiru 2200". A four cylinder 3.6L engine. My first worry would be the
pulsed power of such big jugs directly driving the propeller.
We already need to be selective on the types of hub and props to use on
our direct drive Jabiru 2200 and 3300 engines, I would request some
detailed information on the torque pulses before ordering a propeller
for this puppy...
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Ronco
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A - Full Throttle Roughness
Or you could trade it in for a new UL Power (www.ulpower.com) Model
UL350i
(same or better performance as the 3300) and get EFI/FADEC as standard.
No
messing with carburetors, carb heat or carb ice, fuel distribution etc.
ULP
has also introduced redundancy options for the ECU.
See: http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-qa-ecu.htm. Click on link at bottom
of
page for schematics of optional ECU arrangements.
See attachments for preliminary UL350i specifications and performance.
ULP
is fine tuning/optimizing the UL350i design with release to the market
expected 2Q/3Q 2009.
Joe R
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET> |
All
I'm working on the engine install on my 601XL Jab 3300 with the Jab FWF kit
I'm using a Dynon ems and I'm at a loss on where to put the fuel pressure sensor
??
Should it go in the line after the engine driven fuel pump?
Or should it be before??
How about the primer port on the Gascolator???
I have no clue here and pictures as always would be helpful
Thanks
Larry
601XL 85%done 71% to go
N69102 (reserved) or N747LW (reserved) can't make up my mind
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225551#225551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Larry,
The fuel pressure transducer should be placed between the engine fuel pump and
the carb. Cap off the primer port on the gaslocator.
Unfortunately I do not have a good picture of my fuel pressure transducer. Attached
is the best I have. I mounted my oil recovery bottle on the right side
motor mounts by way of sheet aluminum and adel clamps. I mounted the fuel pressure
transducer to the back of this mounting sheet using a big adel clamp around
the transducer.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225557#225557
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_344_603.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I have a 3300 on the older 601HDS with a Dynon EMS (FlightDek 180) which
should be similar to your setup.
Since ultimately you care about the pressure that the carb is seeing, I
took the fuel hose from the output of the mechanical/engine driven fuel
pump and placed a T connector in it and connected one end to the fuel
pressure sensor (that I got from Dynon) and the other end to the carb
fuel intake port. My fuel pressure sensor is located on the right side
of the firewall (passenger side).
I also placed the fuel pressure sensor at the same level as the carb - I
don't understand this but I was told that if I was concerned about the
pressure #s of the carb, that the fuel pressure sensor should be at the
same level for the best accuracy.
Be aware that the Dynon setup may not be the best for the 3300s. If I
remember correctly, our fuel pressure needs to be between 0.75 to 3 PSI.
The Dynon is setup for a sender that measures 0 to 30PSI and combined
with the fact that Dynon doesn't include a zero'ing function in their
software to handle starting at a true 0 point with the sensor your
numbers may not be all that accurate for the range we need to measure
(with any luck they'll update their software in the next version).
Also, if I understand this correctly the idea is just to have a bit of
positive pressure with the Bing carbs. If you have too much - over 3 PSI
(?), you'll overwhelm the carb and have issues with fuel overflowing,
etc. For what it's worth, I normally see between 1 to 1.75 PSI with just
the engine driven pump running depending on WOT or cruise.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lwhitlow
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 16:49
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location????
All
I'm working on the engine install on my 601XL Jab 3300 with the Jab FWF
kit
I'm using a Dynon ems and I'm at a loss on where to put the fuel
pressure sensor ??
Should it go in the line after the engine driven fuel pump?
Or should it be before??
How about the primer port on the Gascolator???
I have no clue here and pictures as always would be helpful
Thanks
Larry
601XL 85%done 71% to go
N69102 (reserved) or N747LW (reserved) can't make up my mind
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225551#225551
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/18/2009 12:11
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET> |
DaveG601XL wrote:
> Larry,
>
> The fuel pressure transducer should be placed between the engine fuel pump and
the carb. Cap off the primer port on the gaslocator.
>
> Unfortunately I do not have a good picture of my fuel pressure transducer. Attached
is the best I have. I mounted my oil recovery bottle on the right side
motor mounts by way of sheet aluminum and adel clamps. I mounted the fuel pressure
transducer to the back of this mounting sheet using a big adel clamp around
the transducer.
>
> Good luck,
Thanks Dave!! I kinda thought it would have to go in the line from the fuel pump
to the carb but it never hurts to ask. I'm doing my oil recovery the same
way so I'll just put it there.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225573#225573
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET> |
don(at)pcperfect.com wrote:
> I have a 3300 on the older 601HDS with a Dynon EMS (FlightDek 180) which
> should be similar to your setup.
>
> Since ultimately you care about the pressure that the carb is seeing, I
> took the fuel hose from the output of the mechanical/engine driven fuel
> pump and placed a T connector in it and connected one end to the fuel
> pressure sensor (that I got from Dynon) and the other end to the carb
> fuel intake port. My fuel pressure sensor is located on the right side
> of the firewall (passenger side).
>
> I also placed the fuel pressure sensor at the same level as the carb - I
> don't understand this but I was told that if I was concerned about the
> pressure #s of the carb, that the fuel pressure sensor should be at the
> same level for the best accuracy.
>
> Be aware that the Dynon setup may not be the best for the 3300s. If I
> remember correctly, our fuel pressure needs to be between 0.75 to 3 PSI.
> The Dynon is setup for a sender that measures 0 to 30PSI and combined
> with the fact that Dynon doesn't include a zero'ing function in their
> software to handle starting at a true 0 point with the sensor your
> numbers may not be all that accurate for the range we need to measure
> (with any luck they'll update their software in the next version).
>
> Also, if I understand this correctly the idea is just to have a bit of
> positive pressure with the Bing carbs. If you have too much - over 3 PSI
> (?), you'll overwhelm the carb and have issues with fuel overflowing,
> etc. For what it's worth, I normally see between 1 to 1.75 PSI with just
> the engine driven pump running depending on WOT or cruise.
>
> Don
>
> --
Thanks Don
I'm gonna post a question over on the Dynon site and see if they can offer any
help
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225574#225574
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Larry,
I agree with Don that there could be something better than a 0-30 PSI transducer
here. I asked Dynon about a smaller one last year, but they do not offer one.
The 0-30 does seem to work OK, but we are definately on it's low end.
If you could find a 0-10 or 0-15 transducer that works on 5 VDC excitation and
is compatible with engine compartment surroundings, it would probably work. I
would go fly and not sweat it for now (I did).
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225582#225582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
I use a UMA 7 psi sensor between mechanical pump and carb. It's perfect.
I
calibrate it with the file attached.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/umasenderA.php
J=E9rme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DaveG601XL
Sent: lundi 19 janvier 2009 04:06
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location????
Larry,
I agree with Don that there could be something better than a 0-30 PSI
transducer here. I asked Dynon about a smaller one last year, but they
do
not offer one. The 0-30 does seem to work OK, but we are definately on
it's
low end.
If you could find a 0-10 or 0-15 transducer that works on 5 VDC
excitation
and is compatible with engine compartment surroundings, it would
probably
work. I would go fly and not sweat it for now (I did).
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225582#225582
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location???? |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Thanks Jrme!
I went ahead and forwarded this information over to Dynon which is the EMS I'm
using. I asked them to add support for it along with a zero'ing function.
If anybody else would like them to add support for the 0 to 7 PSI UMA Sensor please
e-mail them at support(at)dynonavionics.com (only if they see a decent number
of e-mails will they add the feature, so please e-mail them if this affects
you!). On the surface it appears to be a much better fit than the 0 to 30 PSI
VDO (?) Sensor they are packaging now for the Jabiru Kits.
Don Honabach
Zenith 601HDS
N601DX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jrme Delamare
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:54 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location????
I use a UMA 7 psi sensor between mechanical pump and carb. It's perfect. I calibrate
it with the file attached.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/umasenderA.php
Jrme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL
Sent: lundi 19 janvier 2009 04:06
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Location????
Larry,
I agree with Don that there could be something better than a 0-30 PSI transducer
here. I asked Dynon about a smaller one last year, but they do not offer one.
The 0-30 does seem to work OK, but we are definately on it's low end.
If you could find a 0-10 or 0-15 transducer that works on 5 VDC excitation and
is compatible with engine compartment surroundings, it would probably work. I
would go fly and not sweat it for now (I did).
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225582#225582
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon Changes for Jabiru... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Hey Everyone,
This is the response I got from Dynon on adding support for the lower
pressure sensor for Jabiru Engines:
>> I just talked to one of our engineers and he stated that we would
consider adding a lower PSI sensor if there was enough demand in the
market place to justify the Engineering time need to make the change...
If you'd like them to add support for the 0-7 PSI Fuel Pressure Sensor,
please send them a message ASAP so they can see the demand J
(support(at)dynonavionics.com).
Thanks!
Don Honabach
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Changes for Jabiru... |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I added a post to Dynon's "suggestion" list under the web support forums about
this topic.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225866#225866
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vapor Lock potential with 3300 |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
Members,
(I have asked this (via email) twice of USJabiru, but still no reply...) I figured
if anybody knew, they would.
Have 601XL, and am placing gascolator and fuel pump on outside, lower right firewall.
Bingelis speaks about putting a aluminum or galvanized cover over these
to prevent vapor lock.
Has anybody on the forum had any vapor lock issues with 3300 due to heat?
thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225881#225881
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock potential with 3300 |
> Has anybody on the forum had any vapor lock issues with 3300 due to heat?
None, and my gascolator is in the same place on an HDS. No shielding -
though if it makes you feel better go ahead and install one. One of Tony's
books has a great diagram and a picture of a heat shield on a Piper a/c. I
often run auto gas too, FWIW.
jeff HDS/3300 340 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock potential with 3300 |
In a message dated 1/20/2009 2:21:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
millrML(at)aol.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "AZFlyer"
Members,
(I have asked this (via email) twice of USJabiru, but still no reply...) I
figured if anybody knew, they would.
Have 601XL, and am placing gascolator and fuel pump on outside, lower right
firewall. Bingelis speaks about putting a aluminum or galvanized cover over
these to prevent vapor lock.
Has anybody on the forum had any vapor lock issues with 3300 due to heat?
thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL, 3300,
We are a build center for the fabulous Arion Lighting...which is associated
with USA Jabiru.
check _www.greenlandings.com_ (http://www.greenlandings.com) for video,
chose the Owners Gallery.
Of the 50 or so Lightnings flying, I know of none with vapor lock
problems....and no cover over the gascolator or Facet fuel pump. They are tightly
cowled and have both gascolater and boost fuel pump mounted on the firewall.
The engine fuel pump and the carb are mounted rather low on the engine.
They are the first to receive cool air on the ground. In flight there is
plenty of air moving around them.
I would ignore Tony in this case.
Doug Koenigsberg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock potential with 3300 |
Mike:
We had our fuel pump in the same place and my building partner
fabricated an aluminum heat shield around it. We never had a vapor
lock problem and had several takeoffs over 100F. If you wish I can
email you a picture.
Stan
601 HDS/3300 (Then)
701/3300 (Now)
On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:20 , AZFlyer wrote:
>
> Have 601XL, and am placing gascolator and fuel pump on outside,
> lower right firewall. Bingelis speaks about putting a aluminum or
> galvanized cover over these to prevent vapor lock.
>
> Has anybody on the forum had any vapor lock issues with 3300 due to
> heat?
>
> thanks,
>
> Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starter Motor Earth Cable |
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Has anyone seem/implemented Jabiru's JSL 005-1 about adding an earth cable from
the back of the starter body? I don't really want to add another heavyish cable
to the front end if it's not going to make much difference, so I'd welocme
the groups experience as to whether this is a change that makes any difference!
Many thanks.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225965#225965
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Motor Earth Cable |
I did it...I didn't NEED to do it, but I did it anyway, just to be
safe. I used 2 braided and tinned copper straps about 1/2" wide,
attached terminals on both ends, and installed. I'd never had a
starting problem before but just wanted to be sure...and I was
running out of things to fiddle with. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 21, 2009, at 5:15 AM, ianwilson2 wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone seem/implemented Jabiru's JSL 005-1 about adding an
> earth cable from the back of the starter body? I don't really want
> to add another heavyish cable to the front end if it's not going to
> make much difference, so I'd welocme the groups experience as to
> whether this is a change that makes any difference!
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Ian Wilson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225965#225965
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | Starter Motor Earth Cable |
I am currently Installing a 3300 on my Kitfox 5. I just installed the
engine ground cable at that point on the starter instead of on the engine
block. My thinking is that that is where the greatest current demand
occurs. I guess I will see how that works out.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ianwilson2
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:16 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Starter Motor Earth Cable
>
>
>
> Has anyone seem/implemented Jabiru's JSL 005-1 about adding an earth
> cable from the back of the starter body? I don't really want to add
> another heavyish cable to the front end if it's not going to make much
> difference, so I'd welocme the groups experience as to whether this is
> a change that makes any difference!
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Ian Wilson
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225965#225965
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Starter Motor Earth Cable |
Ian,
I reported 18 months ago that the two assembly bolts which clamp and retain
the starter were getting hot. The earth return is by means of these two
bolts but they are set in Loctite and there is a voltage drop because of
high resistance.
I fitted a separate earth strap and got better performancxe from the
starter.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ianwilson2
Sent: Wednesday, 21 January 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Starter Motor Earth Cable
Has anyone seem/implemented Jabiru's JSL 005-1 about adding an earth cable
from the back of the starter body? I don't really want to add another
heavyish cable to the front end if it's not going to make much difference,
so I'd welocme the groups experience as to whether this is a change that
makes any difference!
Many thanks.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225965#225965
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Motor Earth Cable |
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Lynn, Jim and Peter for the information. Lynn, I can't see that you will
ever run out of things to fiddle with :-)
OK, so given that I need to add a strap to the starter, how do I get the bolts
off without shearing them? I'm in contact with another builder of the same plane
as me and he's just done this on his 2200. He tried heating the bolts to
loosen the Loctite, but the bolts still sheared. Now, not only does he have to
find some new bolts, he also has to take the casting to a specialist shop for
them to remove the broken bolts.
Any ideas?
Again, many thanks for your responses.
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226136#226136
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Motor Earth Cable |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Maybe I just got lucky, but in moving the ground wire for the starter, I
didn't have any problems with the bolt and shearing, etc.
I'd also recommend moving the ground wire or adding the strap for the
starter. I was actually having issues with mine and moving the ground
wire resolved the issue.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ianwilson2
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 02:35
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starter Motor Earth Cable
Thanks Lynn, Jim and Peter for the information. Lynn, I can't see that
you will ever run out of things to fiddle with :-)
OK, so given that I need to add a strap to the starter, how do I get the
bolts off without shearing them? I'm in contact with another builder of
the same plane as me and he's just done this on his 2200. He tried
heating the bolts to loosen the Loctite, but the bolts still sheared.
Now, not only does he have to find some new bolts, he also has to take
the casting to a specialist shop for them to remove the broken bolts.
Any ideas?
Again, many thanks for your responses.
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226136#226136
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/21/2009 07:07
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi all
I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal
props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and
limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really
like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA
for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when
I will need to do this??
Chris
Australia.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Chris, For small chips you can use the classic superglue and baking soda or
microballons as fill. It's messy, but it will work for small stone chips and
has the advantage of being instant. All you do is put a drop of superglue in
the dent and pour in the baking soda or microballons as filler. If you cover
with wax paper pulled tightly around the blade, there's almost no need for
sanding. If it doesn't quite fill, just do it again.For slightly larger
dents use JB Weld. Takes 24 hours to cure, and again use wax paper drawn
tightly around the blade to shape the fill and minimize sanding.
For large dents where there is a fair amount of damage to the carbon fiber
it's probably a toss up whether to send the blade back to the USA for a fix
or just buy another blade.
I've used both these fixes on foam core, carbon fiber blades for my Powerfin
prop. One, a superglue fix, has almost a hundred hours on it and is still
solid.
Rick
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:27 AM, chris Sinfield wrote:
> chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
>
> Hi all
> I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about
> metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair
> info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing
> really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back
> to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is
> the limit when I will need to do this??
> Chris
> Australia.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | Oil filter inspection |
There is a new eea video online : Oil filter inspection.
You can learn a lot of your engine with this simple procedure :
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1431564069/bclid1432781645/bct
id3735936001
Jrme
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 |
Chris,
You can look at this great eea video :
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1431564069/bclid1432781645/bct
id2111048001
Jrme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: mardi 27 janvier 2009 10:27
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Hi all
September 29, 2008 - January 27, 2009
JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-ag