Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-if
September 04, 2009 - September 11, 2009
Well, a Pietenpol wing rib built with gussets only has thousands upon
thousands of hours flown by hundreds and hundreds of aircraft (if not more)
over 80 years. I suppose you could hold out for a larger sample size.....or
just build it to the plans.
Have a good day!
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matt Redmond wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
> I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges.
> In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets
> are stronger.
>
> We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts
> (particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict
> or cut wedges - either will be quite easy.
>
> My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there
> an advantage to using one over the other?
>
> Thanks!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
Maybe I am misunderstanding this test, but I don't see how this testing procedure
tests the rib. It seems it is testing the fake spar's strength. If you were
to remove the rib and load the fake spar with the same 1000 lbs you would get
the same result.
Also, if the fake spar was longer, it would have a lot more internal stress when
loaded with the 1000lbs. That is following the same principle as a longer piece
of wood is easier to break than a shorter one. In my mind If you were to
test a shorter spar you would have to increase the load proportional to the reduction
of the length. (All else being equal)
I am confused and would like to learn more about this rib testing.
Thanks
Ameet
--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Robert Ray wrote:
> From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:07 PM
> I tested a rib, if you look at the old
> glider manuals you'll see them sand bagging a rib,
> I took a couple of boards and cut them down to the
> size of spars, I then took
> a rib that I wanted to destroy, gussetts one side only
> (not completed) I glued the
> rib in the middle of the 3 foot section of fake spars,
> I then set both ends
> of the fake spar on saw horses, I then added 500
> lb's of weight, nothing broke,
> I then went to a friend's house and got 500 pounds
> of tractor wheel weights
> and placed 1000 pounds on the rib, WOW's all I
> could think.
> this was 3/8 by 1/4 boat grade DF with 1/16 gl-2 birch
> gussets.
> Most of the cross members didn't even set flush
> but gapped filled with raka epoxy
> and silica.
>
> russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Matt,
Are you talking specifically about the ribs?
If so, stick to the gussets, like the plans show.
I can't imagine trying to glue all those tiny little wedges in place!
YUCK.
If you're talking about the rest of the plane - use gussets where the
plans call for gussets, and add the wedges where the plans call for
wedges.
In general, in the Pietenpol, the gussets are used to increase the
strength of the joints, and the wedges are used to provide some "meat"
behind the gussets in areas where fittings are attached to the plane
(landing gear, etc.)
By the way, what exactly did you read? Did the author make a blanket
statement that wedges are stronger than gussets (or vice-versa)? Or was
the author making reference to a particular situation or application? I
don't think there's a hard and fast rule - there are WAY too many
variables involved.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 Corvair Engines |
Glenn, for what it's worth. While I was completely rebuilding my A 65 I
found that " Woody Herman 715-967-2119 1-800-279-3168" had the best
prices on new & used parts. A really good guy to deal with. If you call,
leave a msg and he will always get back to you.
I love my A 65 and find it has plenty of power, even on hot days, for my
Piet. I'm running a Jay Anderson 76X38 prop and the combination is
everything I could hope for. I don't feel any need to upgrade to a 75 or
85. Climb is all I'm concerned with, and it does it very well. If I wanted
to go faster, I wouldn't be flying a Piet.
Gene in Tennessee
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Corvair Engines
>
>
> I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I
> want to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where
> they were and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever
> since. Also, have them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be
> rolled around the garage. $275 for each engine/cradle.
>
> Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100
> miles) from my house for an additional charge depending on distance.
>
> Email me off-list.
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261412#261412
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
The method I use to determine whether the gusset is the right size is
the following:
I measure my gusset, then I compare my measurement to the size shown in
the plans. If they match, we're good to go.
I know, this sounds like a joke, but it really isn't.
The plans call for the fuselage gussets to be 1/8" x 2 1/4" and cut in
lengths to fit. So the correct size of the gussets for this plane will
be 2 1/4" wide, and just long enough to cover the diagonals and
uprights. Making the gussets longer than that will add weight, and use
more plywood, but will provide very little additional strength. Making
the gussets shorter could result in a considerably weaker joint.
The size of a required gusset could be determined by taking into account
the forces expected to be acting upon the joint, coupled with the
strength of the various materials, and the strength of the adhesive.
Then, the bond area (the contact between frame and gusset) could be
calculated, and from that the configuration of the gusset could be
established.
I'm sure that IF someone with the proper technical background was so
inclined, and performed a detailed structural analysis of the fuselage
structure, they would probably find that the 2 1/4" dimension might be a
bit of "overkill" in certain areas. Maybe in certain locations the
gussets would only need to be 2", or 1 7/8" or whatever. Sounds like a
lot of work with very little benefit. If we keep in mind that this
aircraft was designed by a man with no formal education in aircraft
design, and was designed 80 years ago, to be built by an average person
with no special skills or equipment, it becomes easy to see why the
gussets are all the same width. It keeps things simple. Simple is good.
Set the fence of the table saw at 2 1/4", and run a sheet of plywood
through, to produce strips which can be easily trimmed to length to suit
each location.
One thing we do know for sure is, that when built to the plans, the
thing works.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternative to nicopress |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
I am on the list....just kind of quiet. Glad you enjoyed the pc.
Mike Cushway
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261453#261453
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1247_132.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Do tell, how did you manage to balance 1000 lbs of sandbadgs and cast iron
weights on top of the 1/2" wide capstrip of one rib?
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I tested a rib, if you look at the old glider manuals you'll see them sand
> bagging a rib,
> I took a couple of boards and cut them down to the size of spars, I then
> took
> a rib that I wanted to destroy, gussetts one side only (not completed) I
> glued the
> rib in the middle of the 3 foot section of fake spars, I then set both ends
> of the fake spar on saw horses, I then added 500 lb's of weight, nothing
> broke,
> I then went to a friend's house and got 500 pounds of tractor wheel weights
> and placed 1000 pounds on the rib, WOW's all I could think.
> this was 3/8 by 1/4 boat grade DF with 1/16 gl-2 birch gussets.
> Most of the cross members didn't even set flush but gapped filled with raka
> epoxy
> and silica.
>
> russell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Gary,
I do have an engineering background, which occasionally gives me a
slightly better than average understanding of why things are built the
way they are.
But I DO NOT have a background in aeronautical engineering.
Sooo... I follow the plans.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Simple....follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's
ability to engineer, like me.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Copy Bill. I ripped a bunch of 1/8th at 2.25" and cut them to size as shown
on the plans...going to the outer most edge of the wood pieces. (as drawn
in a sketch posted earlier of mine.)-
-
One thing to keep in mind folks, if you have the supplementary plans and wi
ll be using those larger engine mounts, the plywood on the inside of the fu
selage for those mounts needs to be a little wider...I believe more like 3"
or so.- FYI.
--- On Fri, 9/4/09, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 1:19 PM
The method-I use to determine whether the gusset is the right size is the
following:
I measure my gusset, then I compare my measurement to the size shown in the
plans. If they match, we're good to go.
I know, this sounds like a joke, but it really isn't.
The plans call for the fuselage gussets to be 1/8" x 2 1/4" and cut in leng
ths to fit. So the correct size of the gussets for this plane will be 2 1/4
" wide, and just long enough to cover the diagonals and uprights. Making th
e gussets longer than that will-add weight, and use more plywood, but wil
l provide very little additional strength. Making the gussets shorter-cou
ld result in a considerably weaker joint.
The size of a required gusset could be determined by taking into account th
e forces expected to be acting upon the joint, coupled with the strength of
the various materials, and the strength of the adhesive. Then, the bond ar
ea (the contact between frame and gusset) could be calculated, and from tha
t the configuration of the gusset could be established.
I'm sure that IF someone with the proper technical background was so inclin
ed,-and performed a detailed structural analysis of the fuselage structur
e, they would probably find that the 2 1/4" dimension might be a bit of "ov
erkill" in certain areas. Maybe in certain locations-the gussets-would
only need to be 2", or 1 7/8" or whatever. Sounds like a lot of work with v
ery little benefit. If we keep in mind that this aircraft was designed by a
man with no formal education in aircraft design, and was designed 80 years
ago, to be built by an average person with no special skills or equipment,
it becomes easy to see why the gussets are all the same width. It keeps-
things simple. Simple-is good. Set the fence of the table saw at 2 1/4",
and run a sheet of plywood through, to produce strips which can be easily t
rimmed to length-to suit each location.
One thing we do know for sure is, that when built to the plans, the thing w
orks.
-
Bill C.---
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Maybe...?
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Do tell, how did you manage to balance 1000 lbs of sandbadgs and cast
iron weights on top of the 1/2" wide capstrip of one rib?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net> |
Like Jack Phillips and several others on this list, I do have an
aeronautical engineering background. However, I think we all agree that
eighty years of proof-by-pudding beats all heck out of theory and analysis.
Build to plan.
Mike Hardaway
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Gary,
I do have an engineering background, which occasionally gives me a slightly
better than average understanding of why things are built the way they are.
But I DO NOT have a background in aeronautical engineering.
Sooo... I follow the plans.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Simple..follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's ability to
engineer, like me.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
QmlsbCwgZG9uJ3QgYmUgbW9kZXN0IG5vIHJvb20gZm9yIGl0IGhlcmUuIEp1c3QgZ29vZCBzb2xp
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ZCBzY2llbmNlLiAgDQoNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJp
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stick height-- phone books |
I'm not Mike Cuy, but my thoughts are that you'd be better off leaving the
seat alone and using a cushion (more comfortable than just the wood) if you
wanted to move yourself up in the fuselage.- Then you could also remove
it if you wanted to be lower in the fuse , ...... but this is just my thoug
hts, my Piet isn't flying yet.-
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Tim Willis wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 7:08 AM
et>
Mike, a serious question and an observation.-
Why was the 2" higher seat dumb-- was it more wind on the pilot on cool day
s?- I would think the seat would be more comfortable, esp. lessening pull
ing on the back of the legs, but maybe more height makes the instruments ha
rder to read, unless the panel is slanted.- Pls reply.-
I live about 100 miles north of Oscar, and wore long pants outside 6 days l
ast winter.- Winter is a non-event.- OTOH, we just had the hottest summ
er in Texas history-- period.- The 100F plus days may be over, but the 10
-day forecast here is for highs of 92-99.- Yes, autumn is coming.- Osca
r might start wearing a jacket in his Piet in December.-
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.
cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 3, 2009 8:45 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books
>
ospace Corporation]"
>
>Oscar-- just sit on a phone book when you're flying and you won't have to
modify your
>stick height at all.- - My seat is 2" higher than plans (boy was that
stupid)
>so it feels just about right.---
>
>You're right about the Coors Light but Jack Phillips good friend Jim Dukem
an (an avid, avid Young Eagles coordinator and all round nice guy) came by
when John Hofmann, Jack, and I were setting up tents and dinning canopies o
n a hot afternoon at Oshkosh a month ago and offered us ice (I mean ice col
d) cold brews and you know how they say when someone else does the cooking
it always tastes better-- same with this scenario.---It was just the
right refreshment at just the right time in just the right setting, and I w
asn't thinking about work, home chores, car repairs, taking the dogs to the
vet, or how my 85 year old mother is doing in Florida.---Life IS GOO
D !---
>
>Mike C.
>
>And Oscar, FYI, this time of year we call them camp fire side chats.--
-We'll move the chats indoors about November if that works for you Texans
.- -
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, guys, for your replies.
I was talking about using wedges instead of gussets, particularly in the
wing ribs. Of course anywhere the plans called for both we'd use both. I
was just wondering if a wedges were suitable replacements for gussets where
only gussets were specified by the plans.
I'll try to find the references. They were definitely contradictory
regarding the relative strength of gussets versus wedges. Both made general
statements and neither was a technical evaluation of one or the other. One
source was the EAA wood book. I'll have to find the other.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I studied the proposal, and I conclude that unfortunately wedges would not
be suitable replacements for gussets. Per my analysis, the lightest and
strongest means of constructing the wing rib joints would be with the
gussets. Of course, anywhere the plans call for using both, it would be
prudent to do so. But otherwise, based on a quick running of numbers, the
gussets win out.
HTH,
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
> Thanks, guys, for your replies.
>
> I was talking about using wedges instead of gussets, particularly in the
> wing ribs. Of course anywhere the plans called for both we'd use both. I
> was just wondering if a wedges were suitable replacements for gussets where
> only gussets were specified by the plans.
>
> I'll try to find the references. They were definitely contradictory
> regarding the relative strength of gussets versus wedges. Both made general
> statements and neither was a technical evaluation of one or the other. One
> source was the EAA wood book. I'll have to find the other.
>
> Matt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Pulleys in Center Section |
Hello Builders,=0A=0ARegarding the three piece wing center section.- Coul
d you guys help me understand-how to mount the two airleron pulleys in th
e center wing section?- I am specifically speaking about what to do with
the pulley bolt.- Two through holes for the pulley bracket pass through t
he center section spar, however what have you done regarding the pulley bol
t? Do you simply counterbore a blind hole to accomodate the head of the bol
t for the pulley between the- pulley bracket and the spar, or should the
bracket get shimmed far enough off the spar to accomdate the bolt head? I h
ope I am clear with my question. I am building from the Vi Kaplar center se
ction print included with the Piet plans.=0A=0AThanks all, I appreciate you
r comments.=0A=0AJohn E.=0AWisconsin=0AJust finished my wing jury struts=0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Ryan (and everyone else)!
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> I studied the proposal, and I conclude that unfortunately wedges would not
> be suitable replacements for gussets. Per my analysis, the lightest and
> strongest means of constructing the wing rib joints would be with the
> gussets. Of course, anywhere the plans call for using both, it would be
> prudent to do so. But otherwise, based on a quick running of numbers, the
> gussets win out.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Mike Cushway-- Sport Aviation Article in Sept. Sport Aviation |
Mike Cushway has been a long-time Pietenpol enthusiast and was at Brodhead--good
to see you again Mike
and glad that you're back into Pietenpol building.
Mike has built, among other things-- wooded floats (gorgeously stunning) for a
Pietenpol, a gorgeous wood
canoe, and if not mistaken had the Sky Scout for a while that Earl Myers (in Ohio)
started to build but then
later sold it to Dennis Hall of Brodhead who eventually finished with some help
from Ted Davis I believe.
That's the black and red-trimmed Ford Scout you see at Brodhead once in a while.
Note the original builder's
NX number.....EM for Earl Myers. (who got out of airplanes totally many years
ago and is now into model trains)
But as usual...I digress.
Andrew King is a whiz at soldered cable joints as well as Frank Pavliga. If you
looked at Frank's Lambert-powered
Sky Gypsy at Bhead it now features solder-wrapped cables.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 2 Corvair Engines-- available in CT |
"Glenn Thomas"
I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I want
to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where they were
and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever since. Also, have
them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be rolled around the garage.
$275 for each engine/cradle.
Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100 miles) from
my house for an additional charge depending on distance.
Email me off-list.
I don't know much about Corvairs Glenn but that sounds like a GREAT PRICE--- and
you have TWO of them ??? Those should go fast. The guys at Clark's might
even pay you $300 each
for them...unless someone from the list is lucky enough to get them first.
I sold a couple of pairs of some Corvair headlight chromed/ polished ? rim trims
to Clarks that I found under an old barn in the farmhouse that I used to rent
and got decent money for them--- which they in turn sold on their web site/
catalog.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe |
?
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they
still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living
guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause
so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even
own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise
anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by
the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right
on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that
little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support
the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]"
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unof
ficial 80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever
Airport).- Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turn
out, if you go eat a stack of flapjacks for me.
-
Shad
p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Shad,
I'm planning to meet up with Frank early Sunday and head down to New Philly. I
got a call from someone there asking if I would go. Frank got a call too. For
whatever reason they seem to want to honor the 80th of the Piet. Should be
fun. I look for your dad. Looks like the weather should be nice. I'm debating
weather or not I can go to MERFI. I'll keep in touch with you and let you
know.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261521#261521
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Shad-- New Philly is on a Sunday so by the time I'd get there it would be over
but I did hear that they were going to be
honoring the 80th Piet Anniversary.
I'm a maybe for Grimes, MERFI. I have to look it up-- I've never been there.
You're only going Sat. then back home right ?
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of shad bell [aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday?
Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unofficial
80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever Airport).
Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turnout, if you
go eat a stack of flapjacks for me.
Shad
p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Shad--- Don--- So New Philly is THIS Sunday no ?
Hmmm.........ARe you guys going to make me miss church ? :)))
Thanks for the head's up-- I had it written down but my notes are at work.
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Don Emch [EmchAir(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday?
Hey Shad,
I'm planning to meet up with Frank early Sunday and head down to New Philly. I
got a call from someone there asking if I would go. Frank got a call too. For
whatever reason they seem to want to honor the 80th of the Piet. Should be
fun. I look for your dad. Looks like the weather should be nice. I'm debating
weather or not I can go to MERFI. I'll keep in touch with you and let you
know.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261521#261521
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reply to John about bendix mags |
John email me off list if you can, My email has been messed up for about a
month, and I can not compose an email, however I can reply and all works we
ll.=C2-
shad
Shad. Reminder bendix mags and box pricing
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: shad bell
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days away
Guys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on the Sat the
12th?=C2- It is at Urbana Grimes Airport.=C2- They do have grass, and p
avement.=C2- I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so.=C2
- So if any of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas
you up here at centerburg (100LL).=C2- I went last year and had a pretty
good time, but the weather was kind of crapy in the a.m.=C2- Let me know
, my buddy might fly over with his cub as well, so I might have to go pract
ice my "slower" flight to keep from out running him.
=C2-
Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the brake lines
on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and no they are n
ot related.
Shad
===
=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M
4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2
=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3
=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn
=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84
=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93
=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p
=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD
=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,
=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=EF=BD=C2=A8ky=C3
=B1=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3
'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5-
=C3=8Ba=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC
=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5
-=C3=8Bl4N4=82=AC=99X@E9L=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^
=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2-=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg
=BA=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89
=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2hm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE
=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=9A=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3
=90=C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2u=C5=BEm(=C2=AD|=C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3
=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9=C2=C5-=C3=AD
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
>>>We can be sure the RVers don't discuss wedgies <<<
Hmm... I'm an RVer and I'm the one that brought up the wedgies!
(got an RV-9 underway but the Piet is way more romantical - must have also)
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Alpha Aviation Supply CO
70 Majors Rd
Greenville, TX 75402(Dallas, TX Metro Area)
Phone: (903) 455-3113
Russ Chambers. He's out at Majors Airfield in Greenville. One of the nicest people
you'll ever meet. Not sure if he's kept the business open or not but I
would never consider a trip anywhere near Greenville without stopping by for a
visit.
A good guy. He's a quiet spoken fellow that knows more about the aviation business
than most.
By the way, his son Ken is (well you BETTER be still working on it Ken!!) building
a Piet in Austin (or maybe it's San Antonio). The Chambers are nice people.
jm
From: Matt Redmond
Sent: Sep 4, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas
east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC.
Does anyone know where that could be?
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
Micheal, if you want to know how the parts of this plane
were engineered you have to understand the following
phrase;
Eyeball engineering.
A pastors wife was preparing the Christmas roast and
she cut off the end of the roast. Her husband asked,
"Why do you do that?. She replied that her mother did
this. They spoke to her mother and she answered,
"Because my mother did it that way.".And the grandmother
was still living, so they asked her. She looked at them like
they were crazy and then replied, "To make it fit in the pan.".
Substitute "gusset" for the Pope's Nose .
Now doesn't that sound familiar? :-)
Nasty Clif
The method I use to determine whether the gusset is the right size is
the following:
I measure my gusset, then I compare my measurement to the size shown
in the plans. If they match, we're good to go.
I know, this sounds like a joke, but it really isn't.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/04/09 17:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Shad,
I posted an announcement about this on thew list a couple of weeks
ago, which appears again below. Nice to know it made an impression
(that's a joke).
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************
Hey Everyone,
One of our local EAA Chapters contacted me & asked that I post the
following announcement to the list. The site of the event, Clever
Field (PHD), in New Philadelphia, OH is the place where John Glenn
solo'd, BTW. The main runway (14/32) is paved, but if memory serves
me, there is also a grass cross strip (~10/28) as well.
I'll be there showing off some parts of my project & hopefully some
of you have not yet had your fill of summer flying & will be
interested in showing up. Pancake Breakfast starting at ~7am,
Kip Gardner
EAA Chapter 1077 at the New Philadelphia, Ohio airport (Phd) Harry
Clever Field is celebrating the 80th Anniversary of the Pietenpol
Air Camper on Sunday Sept. 6th, 2009.
We are encouraging anyone with a Pietenpol to please attend. This is
a Fund Raiser Pancake Breakfast.
Our Chapter is building a 50' X 70' X 18' high Hangar/Educational
facility starting Sept. 1st. The building itself will be built by
students from the local Buckeye Career Center.
Any questions, please don't hesitate to call me at cell phone
330-340-2999.
Terry Henry
Educational Hangar Chairman
On Sep 4, 2009, at 9:59 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is
> an unofficial 80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New
> Phillidelphia (Clever Airport). Dad might go over, I have to work
> hopefully it is a good turnout, if you go eat a stack of flapjacks
> for me.
>
> Shad
> p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Shad, Plan to be there as soon as I can Sunday. Will probably be 9:30 or 10:AM
before I can get out of Hales Landing because of morning fog. Could be there before
noon.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 9/4/2009 10:03:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on Sunday?
Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unofficial
80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever Airport).
Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turnout, if you
go eat a stack of flapjacks for me.
Shad
p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
>You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
>Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
>groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
>himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
>directions.
Well now that's an interesting way to look at it! :-)
I'll be sure to tell my therapist (he says I'm making good progress) that I've
been "useful" to my favorite community.....
On a slightly unrelated note. Have you all seen Dan Helsper's prop carving CD?
Wow, very cool. I've always viewed prop carving as some mystical artistic endeavor
that takes hours and hours of tedious work. Not so. Well, not so the
way he presents it. I wish now I had paid more attention when he was at Brodhead.
Oh, and I'm selling copies of his CD on ebay........JUST KIDDING!! :-)
Seriously, worth checking into.
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
I have Dan's CD, and the wood (Hickory), and am very much looking forward to
tackling that project!
This weekend's goal: One more rib (for center section), center section metal
fittings (and the endless kitchen remodel...).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
>You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
>Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
>groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
>himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in
countless
>directions.
Well now that's an interesting way to look at it! :-)
I'll be sure to tell my therapist (he says I'm making good progress) that
I've been "useful" to my favorite community.....
On a slightly unrelated note. Have you all seen Dan Helsper's prop carving
CD? Wow, very cool. I've always viewed prop carving as some mystical
artistic endeavor that takes hours and hours of tedious work. Not so.
Well, not so the way he presents it. I wish now I had paid more attention
when he was at Brodhead.
Oh, and I'm selling copies of his CD on ebay........JUST KIDDING!! :-)
Seriously, worth checking into.
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Tim,
You wrote that Seth...
>...is building a light-sport RV, preparing for his possible loss of medical
You may want to make sure he knows that once an FAA med examiner
denies his medical, then he can't go Sport Pilot (unless he gets the
issue resolved and the medical re-instated, in which case, what's the
point?).
How to avoid this Catch-22 is left as an exercise to the reader... :-(
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
On that note, most docs that do medicals also have 'regular' practices. Can
you go to the doc and ask him to give you a physical identical to the FAA
medical but not actually fill out the paperwork for a medical - and then if
you pass it, do it (and pay for it) again the next day, on the record?
Or is it that if an FAA medical examiner knows you hold a medical and he
finds something wrong he has to report it even though you weren't officially
there for a medical?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> You wrote that Seth...
>
> ...is building a light-sport RV, preparing for his possible loss of medical
>>
>
> You may want to make sure he knows that once an FAA med examiner denies his
> medical, then he can't go Sport Pilot (unless he gets the issue resolved and
> the medical re-instated, in which case, what's the point?).
>
> How to avoid this Catch-22 is left as an exercise to the reader... :-(
>
> Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex |
paint maybe ?
Thanks, I will make sure he knows this. I think I read this once, but had forgotten
it.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>Sent: Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
>
>
>Tim,
>
> You wrote that Seth...
>
>>...is building a light-sport RV, preparing for his possible loss of medical
>
>You may want to make sure he knows that once an FAA med examiner
>denies his medical, then he can't go Sport Pilot (unless he gets the
>issue resolved and the medical re-instated, in which case, what's the
>point?).
>
>How to avoid this Catch-22 is left as an exercise to the reader... :-(
>
>Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
I don't think an FAA med examiner has to report anything if you're
not officially applying for a Medical. If he does find something as
part of a non-FAA examination, he might suggestion remedies to you,
he may even remind you that IF this HAD been an oh-ficial exam, that
he would have had to 'bust' you. However, I don't think he has any
responsibility to report anything to the FAA outside of the results
of an official FAA medical examination. To the contrary, it is the
pilot's responsibility to make a decision every time he or she goes
flying.
There was an article published in a recent AOPA Pilot, or EAA Sport
Aviation, or somewhere, that suggested that you go to your regular
family doc, not an FAA examiner, and have him put you through the FAA
tests. If you have no problems, then immediately schedule an FAA
exam. If you do have concerns, either get them addressed or go SP
(which means - just let your Medical lapse).
>On that note, most docs that do medicals also have 'regular'
>practices. Can you go to the doc and ask him to give you a physical
>identical to the FAA medical but not actually fill out the paperwork
>for a medical - and then if you pass it, do it (and pay for it)
>again the next day, on the record?
>
>Or is it that if an FAA medical examiner knows you hold a medical
>and he finds something wrong he has to report it even though you
>weren't officially there for a medical?
>
>
>On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jeff Boatright
><jboatri(at)emory.edu> wrote:
>
><jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>
>Tim,
>
> You wrote that Seth...
>
>...is building a light-sport RV, preparing for his possible loss of medical
>
>
>You may want to make sure he knows that once an FAA med examiner
>denies his medical, then he can't go Sport Pilot (unless he gets the
>issue resolved and the medical re-instated, in which case, what's
>the point?).
>
>How to avoid this Catch-22 is left as an exercise to the reader... :-(
>
>Jeff
>uch as List Un/Subscription,
>www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>====
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pulleys in Center Section |
Maybe run the pully bolt through the spar as well? (That-is my plan.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | wood gear angles |
Guys,
I have been working on my straight axle wood gear for the past couple of days.
I have basically been following Chris Tracys info on his web site (thanks Chris
for all the work). My question is the angle on the wood ash blocks. I understand
that the blocks are roughly placed at the deck angle and also must be angled
in towards the tailwheel in order that the gear legs are in the same plane.
My problem is that try as I might, I cant get the ash block (or with Chris'
plans the square alignment board) to contact both gear legs perfectly. I can get
a good alignment on the font leg, but get about a 1/16 gap on the rear of the
rear leg or vice versa.
Has anyone else had this problem? Is it an issue? Do I just twist the leg or shim
it slightly to get a good fit. I have been working on this all day and its
driving me crazy.
By the way I have the same issue on both sides.
Rick Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
Mike, yes I plan on mid morning departure from Centerburg, OH71-then retu
rning mid afternoon or so.- I made it to your field in about an hour or s
o, and Grimes is only 45min from here, so let me know if you want to meet h
ere, fuel up, pee and head on over.--My wife works so I have to run my
son to grandma's house in the early morning and then fly over.
-
Shad-
I'm a maybe for Grimes, MERFI.---I have to look it up-- I've never be
en there.---You're only going Sat. then back home right ?
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell [aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday?
Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unof
ficial 80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever
Airport).- Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turn
out, if you go eat a stack of flapjacks for me.
Shad
p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpo in woodlake ca |
those people ask about flying piet is one in wood lake I talk whit george b
enson a&p mecanic about these is interest in meet you in 19th reunion his f
one #(559)303-3099.and you can contact to ba.flyer(at)hotmail.com, tanks for a
ll you help seyou nex
--- On Tue, 7/28/09, Mark Roberts wrote:
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Piets in CA?great
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 10:04 PM
I will be gone for a few days on vacation... Perhaps in a couple of weeks I
will be down in the hanford area.
Thank you for getting back to me!
Mark
=0AOn Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:32 PM, jorge lizarraga
wrote:
=0Asound exelente im building one now and for now my best days for off work
is whekends and some a wile before dark bur when you are aroun please telm
y afew days before all weis chec my mails before to bed tanks again jorge f
rom hanford
=0A
--- On Tue, 7/28/09, Mark Roberts wrote:
=0A
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Piets in CA??yes
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 10:39 AM
=0AThank you Jorge!!=0A
=0AI will drop George an email... I plan to attend the Sacramento gathering
, and hope to meet you there! -Perhaps George can make it as well...=0A
=0AI am occasionally in Hanford, so perhaps I can meet you sometime and see
your Piet too!=0A
=0AMark
=0AOn Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:46 PM, jorge lizarraga
wrote:
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
hi IM Jorge livin in hanfor and build one piet another person in tulery bui
ld to but george benson have a old flyable piet in wood lake and senyou his
mail to- ba.flyer(at)hotmail.com...
=0A--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Mark Roberts wrote:you have
one fly or building one to tanks for you note
=0A=0A
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Piets in CA??
Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 11:45 AM
=0A
=0AHey guys: =0A
=0AI'd like to see if I can connect with any flying Piets in California...
I'm in the central part of the state (Fresno) and looking to see if there i
s anything flying close enough to drive to...=0A
=0AThanks!=0A
=0AMark
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A =0A
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wood gear angles |
Rick
I had a small gap on one of the front leg too. I just twist it in and
it was fine. If your following how I did it I think it stems from
having a slight miss cut on the end where it meets the fuselage. In any
event 1/16th isn't going to be a problem. Just remember that when you
are drilling the holes to twist it in.
Here is proof that I am not perfect.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/IMG_1572.JPG
You can see that I wrote my self a note.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear angles
Guys,
I have been working on my straight axle wood gear for the past couple
of days. I have basically been following Chris Tracys info on his web
site (thanks Chris for all the work). My question is the angle on the
wood ash blocks. I understand that the blocks are roughly placed at the
deck angle and also must be angled in towards the tailwheel in order
that the gear legs are in the same plane. My problem is that try as I
might, I cant get the ash block (or with Chris' plans the square
alignment board) to contact both gear legs perfectly. I can get a good
alignment on the font leg, but get about a 1/16 gap on the rear of the
rear leg or vice versa.
Has anyone else had this problem? Is it an issue? Do I just twist the
leg or shim it slightly to get a good fit. I have been working on this
all day and its driving me crazy.
By the way I have the same issue on both sides.
Rick Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all you good people!
I go to an FAA medical examiner (highly recommended by local pilots). Before you
even fill out the application, you see that there is a BIG sign on the receptionist's
counter that says that if you have ANY reservations about your ability
to pass, to NOT sign or date the application before you have had a chance to
talk to the doctor. I did just that, last time I was in there, because I had
a bad stomach ulcer 7 months prior, which I was transported to the hospital via
ambulance. I had a grueling 5-day hospital stay with all kinds of upper GI
scopes and transfusions, medication etc. When I finally got into his office, he
did a thorough research on the FAA Medical Examiners websight discovering EXACTLY
what would be required in order for me to obtain a 3rd class medical. Long
story short, there are some FAA docs out there that would give you the heads-up
if you were about to fail, so that you had the choice to go Light Sport before
the hammer came down. This guy will be my Doc f
or all my flying carrer going forward. You just have to find the right guy.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
P.S. Praise God my wife was home at the time, otherwise I would have been dead
for sure. Keeled-over and too weak to even get the cell out of my pocket!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Dan,
Excellent info, that may also apply to me. I appreciate the heads-up.
BTW - without a doubt, your wife stayed cool-headed while helping you to get
to the hospital.unlike when your engine started for the first time! I smile
every time I play that CD!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA Medicals
Hello all you good people!
I go to an FAA medical examiner (highly recommended by local pilots). Before
you even fill out the application, you see that there is a BIG sign on the
receptionist's counter that says that if you have ANY reservations about
your ability to pass, to NOT sign or date the application before you have
had a chance to talk to the doctor. I did just that, last time I was in
there, because I had a bad stomach ulcer 7 months prior, which I was
transported to the hospital via ambulance. I had a grueling 5-day hospital
stay with all kinds of upper GI scopes and transfusions, medication etc.
When I finally got into his office, he did a thorough research on the FAA
Medical Examiners websight discovering EXACTLY what would be required in
order for me to obtain a 3rd class medical. Long story short, there are some
FAA docs out there that would give you the heads-up if you were about to
fail, so that you had the choice to go Light Spor t before the hammer came
down. This guy will be my Doc for all my flying carrer going forward. You
just have to find the right guy.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
P.S. Praise God my wife was home at the time, otherwise I would have been
dead for sure. Keeled-over and too weak to even get the cell out of my
pocket!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc. |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gentlemen,
While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there ARE some
of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, and making
some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of my one-piece wing
"inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully castored so I can handle
this huge panel without any help. I think I may have to add a few extra legs
somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it looks like it will function
as desired.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | wood gear angles |
Rick-- that was one of the most challenging thing to solve and get right on my
Piet---the compound angles of the gear legs where they meet the ash blocks.
It about drove me into the nut house but one my FOURTH set of gear leg cutting
attempts I got it.
Not only do you have to angle your bottom ash pieces to point toward the tailwheel
but from a top view angle them inward at the aft ends to point towards
the tailwheel as well--- once you set them up like that you'll find those wood
gear leg cuts are easier t make fit----but they are critical cuts where if you
cut
at just a titch the wrong angle....your gear leg is too short or scrap. Very
touchy sawing adjustments down there to get those wood joints to fit flush.
There is NOTHING as pretty as a wood legged, wire wheeled Pietenpol in my opinion
but the work to make those gear legs can be a real nightmare......but
just think---it will be all worth it when you're done. At 99% of the fly-in's
you'll go to or airports you will be the ONLY airplane there with old Jenny
style
landing gear legs and wheels. And people love the looks. Even RV guys !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wood gear angles |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Rick,
This was, without a doubt, the most challenging and frustrating part of the building
process for me. I finally got it, but not before many frustrating failures.
And this was before Chris Tracey's hints were published. I did have very helpful
advice from Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips which was a tremendous help to me.
Don't give up, give it a rest till tomorrow, and take another fresh look at
it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:22 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear angles
Guys,
I have been working on my straight axle wood gear for the past couple of days.
I have basically been following Chris Tracys info on his web site (thanks Chris
for all the work). My question is the angle on the wood ash blocks. I understand
that the blocks are roughly placed at the deck angle and also must be angled
in towards the tailwheel in order that the gear legs are in the same plane.
My problem is that try as I might, I cant get the ash block (or with Chris'
plans the?square alignment board) to contact both gear legs perfectly. I can get
a good alignment on the font leg, but get about a 1/16 gap on the rear of the
rear leg or vice versa.
?
Has anyone else had this problem? Is it an issue? Do I just twist the leg or shim
it slightly to get a good fit. I have been working on this all day and its
driving me crazy.
?
By the way I have the same issue on both sides.
?
?
Rick Schreiber
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Wow! I'm so glad we cut our one piece wing. :P (that looks awesome Dan!)
Jess says she'll keep an eye out for a 40 Tesla magnet, and then you can
just flesh that stand out into an MRI machine once the Piet is complete. No
need for inspection panels....
Have a good night,
Ryan
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:51 PM, wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there
> ARE *some* of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively,
> and making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of
> my one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully
> castored so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may
> have to add a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it
> looks like it will function as desired.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Mike, Chris and Dan...
Thanks for the response. I did give it a rest Dan. I went back down a little while
ago and gave it another shot and everything just fell in place. I tried it
again and everything just lined up and sort of fell in place. I have no idea
what the issue was before, other than when trying to set it up by yourself you
sort of feel like one armed paper hanger. I had so many clamps and braces just
to make up for the lack of another pair of hands.
I now have anchored the fore and aft guide on the left side and then tried the
right side again. This side also lined up as it should. Both sides are now jigged
and ready to cut the test legs.
My hats are off to everyone who did the straight axle gear set ups before you published
your directions Chris. I don't know if I would have been smart enough
to figure it out without a lot of help. I have been sweating doing the gear for
a while now. I think the worst is now behind me.
The sad part is that I was hoping to get the gear pretty well done this weekend.
That was until the drive belts on my table saw decided to give up the ghost..
I probably wont have replacements for another week.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Thats brilliant Dan I will be copying that in about 4 years when my wings are ready
to paint so don't forget the details as I will have questions.
Well done
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261702#261702
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
Awesome jig Dan. Nice big shop or hanger too! I'm so cramped for space that
looks great to me! Good luck with your paint work. What type of paint are
you useing?? Ed Grentzer Working on mechanical brake cables and pulleys.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies=2C wedges=2C gussets=2C elephants on ribs
=2C puking=2C etc.
Date: Sat=2C 5 Sep 2009 20:51:27 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Gentlemen=2C
While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects=2C there
ARE some of us that are continuing to work=2C using our time effectively
=2C and making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos
of my one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully c
astored so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may hav
e to add a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit=2C but so far it
looks like it will function as desired.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems, was Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants |
on ribs, puking, etc.
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Ed,
?
I am using the Stewart System- all water soluble. So far I really like it. The
glue is especially easy to use. The Stewart's have posted a lot of their instructional
videos on YouTube. Very helpful.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed G. <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:16 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking,
etc.
Awesome jig Dan. Nice big shop or hanger?too! I'm so cramped for space that looks
great to me!? Good luck with your paint work. What type of paint are you useing???Ed
Grentzer?? Working on mechanical brake cables and pulleys.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 20:51:27 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Gentlemen,
?
While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there ARE some
of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, and making
some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of my one-piece wing
"inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully castored so I can handle
this huge panel without any help. I think I may have to add a few extra legs
somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it looks like it will function
as desired.
?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems, was Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants |
on ribs, puking, etc.
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
RGFuDQoNCklzIHRoZXJlIGdvaW5nIHRvIGJlIGFub3RoZXIgZHZkIHNob3dpbmcgaG93IHRvIGJ1
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Zm9yIHlvdS4gVHJ5IEJpbmcgbm93LiANCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Crank Extension, Fits aircraft 6 deg.hubs. |
Hello Lowell: I am interested in a prop extension if the cost isn't
prohivative. Leon Stefan 613 N. Salem Rd. Nickerson Ks. 67561-9010
lshutks(at)webtv.net 620-200 3300 (cell) or 620-422 8888 house phone.
usually 3 to 6pm during the week. I work at night and sleep during the
day. thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Here are a few detail shots of the wing stand. I actually added a few more castors
after this to keep the everything on track, to keep the circle from falling
off the bed rollers.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Dan,
I think you watched "Stargate" one too many times!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing stand
Here are a few detail shots of the wing stand. I actually added a few more
castors after this to keep the everything on track, to keep the circle from
falling off the bed rollers.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
ma...
True enough, some of those guys really enjoy the power of killing your
ticket for medical. Having been exposed to one of those jerks first hand I know
what that's all about.
Rule, know your doc
Rule, don't volunteer information that is not relevant
Rule, consider carefully what you say about your medical condition and
history, the way you word a response can make all the difference in the world
Any wrinkle or discussion topic is fare game for failure so don't ask
questions about specific medical conditions that points a finger of suspicion in
your direction.
Trouble Sleeping is a big one, that gets you to two places immediately,
sleep apnea automatic failure even if you were treated many years before
you still have to prove it up to and including additional studies and the all
together fun of sleep and awake one that lasts for a full 8 hours and in
nothing short of tempted sleep at intervals. nuff said
Dont say $hiCrap
depression, automatic failure. dont know how that one works but youll wash
out quick on that or medications for
A word to the wise
John
In a message dated 9/5/2009 2:25:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jboatri(at)emory.edu writes:
I don't think an FAA med examiner has to report anything if you're not
officially applying for a Medical. If he does find something as part of a
non-FAA examination, he might suggestion remedies to you, he may even remind you
that IF this HAD been an oh-ficial exam, that he would have had to 'bust'
you. However, I don't think he has any responsibility to report anything to
the FAA outside of the results of an official FAA medical examination. To
the contrary, it is the pilot's responsibility to make a decision every
time he or she goes flying.
There was an article published in a recent AOPA Pilot, or EAA Sport
Aviation, or somewhere, that suggested that you go to your regular family doc,
not an FAA examiner, and have him put you through the FAA tests. If you have
no problems, then immediately schedule an FAA exam. If you do have concerns,
either get them addressed or go SP (which means - just let your Medical
lapse).
On that note, most docs that do medicals also have 'regular' practices.
Can you go to the doc and ask him to give you a physical identical to the
FAA medical but not actually fill out the paperwork for a medical - and then
if you pass it, do it (and pay for it) again the next day, on the record?
Or is it that if an FAA medical examiner knows you hold a medical and he
finds something wrong he has to report it even though you weren't officially
there for a medical?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Jeff Boatright <_jboatri(at)emory.edu_
(mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu) > wrote:
(mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu) >
Tim,
You wrote that Seth...
...is building a light-sport RV, preparing for his possible loss of medical
You may want to make sure he knows that once an FAA med examiner denies
his medical, then he can't go Sport Pilot (unless he gets the issue resolved
and the medical re-instated, in which case, what's the point?).
How to avoid this Catch-22 is left as an exercise to the reader... :-(
Jeff
uch as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
>
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Update:
I found a hard copy of the page I was looking for up at he hangar. I still don't
remember how I got this list (e-mail or forum), as I still can not find the
electronic version, so I am in the process of retyping it with the hand written
notes.
For anyone wondering, this list was compiled by Robert McKinley, to include some
hand written notes. Perhaps that rings a bell with some? Having studied it
several times before placing the order for my wood package, I think I'll find
it useful to go through it again while I identify the various pieces prior to
cutting.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261738#261738
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk |
about latex paint ma...
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
> True enough, some of those guys really enjoy the power of killing your
> ticket for medical. Having been exposed to one of those jerks first
> hand I know what that's all about.
One common trick is to set up the appointment for mid-morning. The
victim then recognizes an opportunity for a nice breakfast out with his
wife; loads up on eggs, pancakes, and syrup; and arrives at the
appointment with sky-high blood glucose. Instant down-check for diabetes!
Beware. This ploy targets pilots in the over-60 crowd--guys like many of us.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Matt
That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He
moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired
and doesn't sell wood any more.
Ken
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems, was Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants |
on
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
I am using stewart systems on my wings, the pics are on the westcoast site. Was
able to do them in my living room as the smell was no problem. The ekobond is
heat activated, but it lets you make everything super smooth with an iron, if
you experiment with it, much easier/better than sanding. Watch the humidity,
if it is raining out the stuff may never set up. Otherwise I like it. Glue is
hard to get off of clothing, can pull hair if you get it on you. (Don't ask how
I know. )
Jim D :P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261752#261752
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Ken,
Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX. Ken,
do you know of such a source?
(I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but no fir
or spruce.)
Thanks,
Tim in central TX (Georgetown)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Hey Matt
That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He moved
to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired and doesn't
sell wood any more.
Ken
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas
east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC.
Does anyone know where that could be?
Thanks,
Matt
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Is this the list your talking about? I finaly found it on my computer a
little too late for you. I think Bill Church sent it out several months
ago.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood List
>
> Update:
>
> I found a hard copy of the page I was looking for up at he hangar. I
> still don't remember how I got this list (e-mail or forum), as I still can
> not find the electronic version, so I am in the process of retyping it
> with the hand written notes.
>
> For anyone wondering, this list was compiled by Robert McKinley, to
> include some hand written notes. Perhaps that rings a bell with some?
> Having studied it several times before placing the order for my wood
> package, I think I'll find it useful to go through it again while I
> identify the various pieces prior to cutting.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261738#261738
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Group I had a very nice visit with Gardner Mason. I went to AS&S in Peachtree City,Ga
to pick up my wood package and 4130. I came back by Gardner's hangar I
had a great time and really enjoyed drooling over his Pietenpol. It is all but
ready to fly. Very nice Corvair installation. I didn't stay long as there was
some weather moving in and I wanted to get home ahead of it. Thanks Gardner for
your hospitality.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261774#261774
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
It appears that althought that list is named as a .jpg file, it is actually
a .tif with the wrong extension. Here's a jpg version...
Thanks for providing it, Chris. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:21 PM, wrote:
> Is this the list your talking about? I finaly found it on my computer a
> little too late for you. I think Bill Church sent it out several months
> ago.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
That's the one! I used that list to inventory my wood package this afternoon and
found that everything was accounted for. In fact, I ended up with a couple
of extra pieces...
1 - 1"x1"x7' the list calls for 1, I have 2
2 - 3/16"x1/2"x6' the list calls for 7, I have 9
2 - 3/16"x1/2"x4' the list calls for 7, I have 9
Mr. McKinley's list states "Pietenpol Air Camper Original"... I wonder if this
may be an indication of materials needed for the original (standard) fuse, whereas
maybe the additional pieces included in the AS&S package allow for the long
fuse. Anyone know if this is the case?
All things accounted for, I don't believe that the leading or trailing edges for
the wing are included, and I'm not sure that the wing tip bows are either.
Inventory was the easy part... now I get to try and figure out which pieces are
used for the different assemblies.
Any other tips out there? [Laughing]
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261779#261779
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar |
Jerry,
Gardiner showed me some photos at Brodhead, but I haven't seen anything on
the net, or the latest. You didn't happen to take any pictures, did you?
Gardiner, I know you're out there...how about posting some pics?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar
Group I had a very nice visit with Gardner Mason. I went to AS&S in
Peachtree City,Ga to pick up my wood package and 4130. I came back by
Gardner's hangar I had a great time and really enjoyed drooling over his
Pietenpol. It is all but ready to fly. Very nice Corvair installation. I
didn't stay long as there was some weather moving in and I wanted to get
home ahead of it. Thanks Gardner for your hospitality.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261774#261774
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Gary I only took some pictures of his trim tab,alternator and voltage regulator.
My son was with me and I thought he was taking picture but he was drooling on
the airplane too. I didn't get a picture of him or the whole airplane. I think
those 3 pictures was all I got. My wife gave me WHAT FOR about it too!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261791#261791
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar |
Jerry' Thanks for the very nice comments you made about me and my Piet. I will
get some picks this week and my wife said she would post them. See you at Evergreen
wx permitting. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:12:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar
Gary I only took some pictures of his trim tab,alternator and voltage regulator.
My son was with me and I thought he was taking picture but he was drooling on
the airplane too. I didn't get a picture of him or the whole airplane. I think
those 3 pictures was all I got. My wife gave me WHAT FOR about it too!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261791#261791
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar |
I will Gary. Thanks for your comments too. Cheers, Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 7:58:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar
Jerry,
Gardiner showed me some photos at Brodhead, but I haven't seen anything on
the net, or the latest. You didn't happen to take any pictures, did you?
Gardiner, I know you're out there...how about posting some pics?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit to Gardner Mason's hangar
Group I had a very nice visit with Gardner Mason. I went to AS&S in
Peachtree City,Ga to pick up my wood package and 4130. I came back by
Gardner's hangar I had a great time and really enjoyed drooling over his
Pietenpol. It is all but ready to fly. Very nice Corvair installation. I
didn't stay long as there was some weather moving in and I wanted to get
home ahead of it. Thanks Gardner for your hospitality.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261774#261774
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
| From: | outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com |
Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall
any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind, it misses the desired
look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about
weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint, and precolored fabric
would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of paint for 60lbs of
complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought, paint the thing and
leave the nag at home ;-)
Anyways, just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
Jeremy Bramall
Dallas, TX
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y
ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o
f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small
fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua
l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1
1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And
then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the
y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it
really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h
ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer
From: chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 10:18:38 -0400
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Tim
Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft
spruce and my plywood from boulter.
I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my
center section. It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the
quality is good it might be worth saving shipping.
Ken
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis wrote:
> timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX.
> Ken, do you know of such a source?
>
> (I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but
> no fir or spruce.)
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX (Georgetown)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Chambers
> Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
>
>
> Hey Matt
>
> That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He
> moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired
> and doesn't sell wood any more.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
>
>
> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
Ed=2C
Keep in mind that dope=2C either nitrate or butyrate is mostly solvent (lot
s of coats to get any kind of fill.) So=2C to use several gallons would no
t add that much weight. It would take several gallons to fill the weave.
If you are only concerned about protecting the fabric from UV damage (dacro
n's enemey) then all you really need after a couple coats of nitrate is th
e aluminum coat. This brings me to another subject. I read of some people
using black for a UV barrier. I question how effective this is. The reaso
n aluminum is used is it reflects all light. Black is the absence of color
meaning that all light rays are absorbed. White is the presnece of all co
lors meaning that all light is reflected.
If you want a lesson in this punch test a fabric airplane on the white and
then on the color. If the color is dark (red green blue) and the fabric ha
s been on for 10-20yrs the color will puch at half the strength of the whit
e.
In filling the weave of fabric=2C all you need is to fill the valleys. W
hen we built up fabric planes we sanded between coats(once you get enough o
n to protect the threads). The way to do this is to spray on a complete=2C
but thin coat of primer called a guard coat. You sand until you only have
primer left in the valleys. This is a simplification=2C but you get the i
dea.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 11:21:50 -0400
This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y
ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o
f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small
fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua
l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1
1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And
then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the
y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it
really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h
ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer
From: chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 10:18:38 -0400
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Ken,
I think that was it. Sorry to hear he's not selling wood anymore... But
semi-retired sounds nice!
Matt
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> Hey Matt
>
> That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He
> moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired
> and doesn't sell wood any more.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
>
>> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
>> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
>> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
If I'm not mistaken, this looks just like the wood list that came with the Grega
GN-1 plans package. I have those plans in additon to my Piet plans, and I think
I remember seeing this list in the GN-1 builder's notes.
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
Baton Rouge, LA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261891#261891
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
Build it per MIL-T-FD4, A change
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges
Well, a Pietenpol wing rib built with gussets only has thousands upon
thousands of hours flown by hundreds and hundreds of aircraft (if not more)
over 80 years. I suppose you could hold out for a larger sample size.....or
just build it to the plans.
Have a good day!
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matt Redmond wrote:
Hi Folks,
I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges.
In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets
are stronger.
We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts
(particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict
or cut wedges - either will be quite easy.
My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there
an advantage to using one over the other?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
There's also a place over by Love Field, Architectural Carpentry Materials on Owens
St. They have lots of doug fir and will let you sort through it. If that's
what you want. They probably have some western cedar and who knows what else.
I spent a lot of time digging through their lumber and found a lot of good, in
spec doug fir. Wouldn't do it that way again. I would just use spruce and be
done with it.
For stuff like maple and mahogany, Hardwood Lumber of Dallas on Goodnight is really
good. Huge selection.
Won't give you the nice dose of aviation I always got from Russ but I guess these
will do... :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Sep 7, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Hey Tim
Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft spruce
and my plywood from boulter.
I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my center section.
It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the quality is good
it might be worth saving shipping.
Ken
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis wrote:
Ken,
Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX. Ken,
do you know of such a source?
(I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but no fir
or spruce.)
Thanks,
Tim in central TX (Georgetown)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Hey Matt
That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He moved
to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired and doesn't
sell wood any more.
Ken
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas
east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC.
Does anyone know where that could be?
Thanks,
Matt
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]"
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
Dan,
How are you managing to build and paint an airplane in such a dinky little
shop?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs,
puking, etc.
Gentlemen,
While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there
ARE some of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, and
making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of my
one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully castored
so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may have to add
a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it looks like
it will function as desired.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
forever...
This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
attachment fittings done!
...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]"
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is
39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
forever...
This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
attachment fittings done!
...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]"
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Very nice video, Jack. Greg Cardinal and I both flew our Piet's to a
country fly in yesterday. The morning air was the best I've had all summer.
It was an 80 mi. run for me and I enjoyed every mile. It was a small
private airport and the owner, Doug Ward, just bought a Piet project and had
it on the flight line. I wish that I had remembered the video camera.
I have been out flying quite a bit lately and have rarely cracked above 700'
agl.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
>
>
> Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
> Lake,
> Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
> has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
> over the lake. Check it out at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
> minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
> BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It
> is
> 39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
> and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Boothe
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
> forever...
>
> This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the
> metal
> attachment fittings done!
>
> ...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Phillips
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
>
>
> Watch it, now...
>
> Jack Phillips
> Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
> RV-4 N18LR
> RV-10 in progress
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Boothe
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
>
> You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
> Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
> groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
> himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in
> countless
> directions.
>
> BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
> worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (14 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
> Michael
> D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint
> maybe ?
>
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder
> if
> they still do that ? I digress.
>
> Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
> living guts out. Let's get onto something
> slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
> Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
> menopause so don't look at me crossways or
> sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
> even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
> frying pan your way.
>
> Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
> compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
> are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
> plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
> white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
> right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
> and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
> If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed
> up
> that little side-to-side tray that goes across
> the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
> support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
> of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being complete3d
for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day that
your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of progress
like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I too
can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY
airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport that
has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new Pietenpols.
I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you gents are
cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol torch
be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up and
coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the living
crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the "foolish
shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der Pietenpol
Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
Mike C.
Cleveland, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that------
If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck
run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running
alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand
and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just
a matter of time before somebody hits one.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
that------
Aerospace Corporation]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Jack what a beautiful video. I feel almost like I was along for the ride! I was
talking about your airplane. The scenery was pretty too.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261939#261939
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
I've got about a degree of incidence in the horizontal stabilizer, still
have to hold a bit of down elevator - less with a passenger in the front.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti Lowell
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for
sharing that-----
Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Very nice video, thanks for sharing.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 7, 2009 2:50 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
>
>
>Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake,
>Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
>has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
>over the lake. Check it out at:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
>minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
>BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is
>39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
>and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
>forever...
>
>This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
>attachment fittings done!
>
>...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, Ca.
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>(15 ribs down.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
>Phillips
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
>
>
>Watch it, now...
>
>Jack Phillips
>Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
>RV-4 N18LR
>RV-10 in progress
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
>
>You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
>Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
>groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
>himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
>directions.
>
>BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
>worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, Ca.
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>(14 ribs down.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
>D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
>maybe ?
>
>Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
>Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
>they still do that ? I digress.
>
>Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
>living guts out. Let's get onto something
>slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
>Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
>menopause so don't look at me crossways or
>sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
>even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
>frying pan your way.
>
>Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
>compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
>are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
>plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
>white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
>right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
>and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
>If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
>that little side-to-side tray that goes across
>the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
>support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
>of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pegasus Auto Racing catalog |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Guys,
This place has a lot of items that are applicable to airplane homebuilding. Full line of AN hardware and fittings, light weight seat belts and harnesses, light weight brake discs and calipers?etc. www.PegasusAutoRacing.com. Get a catalog and check it out. I wish I had this a few years ago.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | another great day of Piet flying |
Nothing earth-shattering, just another beautiful day
of Piet flying. I put 2.8 hours on the new engine,
which is now back into standard service after flying
off the required 5 hours of test time, and it is
running great. Flew down to Zapata with a fuel stop
at Cotulla about 72 miles into the trip. I had forgotten
just how silky-smooth the air can be early in the
morning. Absolutely without a ripple or bump. It
was the first time in a very long time when I've been
able to tell the tiny nuances of rig and trim on the
airplane because most of my flying is done in the
afternoons and it's bumpy enough to mask any subtle
differences in those conditions.
Flying in the smooth morning air, trimmed out in cruise,
I could tell that the airplane wants to yaw to the left,
so I'll need to tweak the rudder trim tab a bit. What
a delightful airplane, tooling along at about 70-72
MPH and 1700', watching the towns and country roads
start to come alive with activity on this Labor Day
morning. Watched an aerial applicator make his turn
directly in front of me and then finish off a circular
field off to my left, then land to fill his hopper
again.
41CC is sporting new wrinkle-finish black paint on the
face of the whiskey compass, so it flew extra nice
today ;o) Same old compass, new face, better performance ;o)
Go finish your airplanes this winter, folks, so you can
go fly next spring. You won't regret it. Pick an
airfoil, decide whether you want gussets or wedges, but
finish and fly. Some mornings in the airplane are like
a dream come true.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Three things I noticed about that clip;number one the grin on the pilot was
just the same as supermans in the first movie;number two the scenery was f
antastic and it was a good clean clear take and number three did ya notice
the deer run behind them as they taxied back.I'll bet some folks are going
to take another look at that clip now.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, September 7, 2009 3:50:35 PM=0ASubject: R
E: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint mayb
llsouth.net>=0A=0AJust had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to S
mith Mountain Lake,=0AVirginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there.-
I took up a friend who=0Ahas a nice video camera and he shot some good foo
tage from the Pietenpol=0Aover the lake.- Check it out at:=0Ahttp://www.y
outube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8=0Aminutes loo
king at scenery from a Pietenpol.=0A=0ABTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2
hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol.- It is=0A39 minutes by RV-4, so there a
re some advantages to flying other than low=0Aand slow.- I still prefer t
he Pietenpol, though.=0A=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0A=0A=0A-----Original Me
ssage-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owne
r-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Mon
day, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubjec
t: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apain
5(at)comcast.net>=0A=0ANot that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just say
in'....low & slow,=0Aforever...=0A=0AThis weekend I got both butt ribs buil
t for the center section and the metal=0Aattachment fittings done!=0A=0A...
not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...=0A=0AGary Boothe=0ACoo
l, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuselage o
n gear=0A(15 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-piet
enpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Jack=0APhillips=0ASent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1
1:46 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: g
ussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Piete
npol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"=0A=0A
=0AWatch it, now...=0A=0AJack Phillips=0APietenpol Air Camper NX899JP=0ARV-
4 N18LR=0ARV-10 in progress=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-p
ietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:
15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gus
sets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Pietenp
ol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" =0A=0AYou se
e? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:=0A=0AGrown men, joining in a g
ang-like, group pile-on of name calling and=0Agroundless accustations of so
me faceless soul, incapable of defending=0Ahimself. Instead, we have to twi
st and tear a simple wood joint in countless=0Adirections.=0A=0ABTW - Mike,
I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm=0Aworried. Your n
ot gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?=0A=0AGary Boothe
=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuse
lage on gear=0A(14 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owne
r-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael=0AD. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Co
rporation]=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@
matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk
, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC=0AAerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.
gov>=0A=0A=0A=0ARemember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in schoo
l ?- I wonder if=0Athey still do that ?- - I digress.=0A=0AHey, can w
e drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my=0Aliving gu
ts out.- Let's get onto something=0Aslightly less nauseating like using h
ouse paint or something okay ?=0A=0ASorry-- I had too much coffee after din
ner tonight and am going thru male=0Amenopause so don't look at me crossway
s or=0Asideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women
don't=0Aeven own one of those anymore do they ?) or=0Afrying pan your way.
=0A=0AMike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
=0Acompromise anything in your Piet since I know you=0Aare leaning toward u
sing a Continental.- You retain the big slabs of=0Aplywood by the upper m
otor mounts, you retain the=0Awhite ash-doweled-in crossmember up- front
that goes side-to-side left to=0Aright on the fuselage front right at the f
irewall=0Aand you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument pane
l.=0A=0AIf you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I b
eefed up=0Athat little side-to-side tray that goes across=0Athe top of the
fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to=0Asupport the weigh
t of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons=0Aof fuel.- - Wish I was at wor
k-- I'd attach the sketch.=0A=0AMike C.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Jack,
is that all you plan to do the rest of your life, cash for rides?
Jack nice job on the video an inspiration to all us builders hoping we can
do the same in our own Piets.
Thanks for sharing
John
Safe in the morning!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Awesome video Jack... beautiful out there.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261971#261971
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: another great day of Piet flying |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I can't wait! Jack's video and now your vivid description. I want to fly too!
I did what I could... several hours of work this weekend.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261972#261972
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
The wood working book I think it's a Tony Bingalis (spelling)
any how I got the book from the EAA is very specific, it
says a wedge in a 1'' x 1'' that has one inch side increased
the glued areas from one to three counting the butt end of the member,
a gusset thats 3 inches long and 3 inches high increases
it to six meaning that there is six times the surface area
glued. I think in the area of the wing strut and landing gear
I'll have wedges 180 degrees and gussets.
BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan
it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside
gussets be BIRCH. 1/8.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder
> if they still do that ? I digress.
>
> Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
> living guts out. Let's get onto something
> slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
> Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
> menopause so don't look at me crossways or
> sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
> even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
> frying pan your way.
>
> Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
> compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
> are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
> plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
> white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
> right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
> and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
> If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
> that little side-to-side tray that goes across
> the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
> support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
> of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Matt, Tim in TX, et al,
Clarke's Hardwoods, in Houston, is due to receive (if they have not already), a
new shipment of VG (vertical grain) Sitka Spruce. They already have a nice selection
of Doug Fir VG, as well. Most of the fir is rough, and will need to
be planed.
Along with the above mentioned, they stock Finnish birch plywood in an AB/B rating
- identical to AS&S's, but at somewhat higher price. Only sold in 4x4 sheets.
They also have Okume, and Baltic Birch ply in 4X8 sheets.
I spent about 2 hours looking over their stock, and, as a local source to me in
Spring, TX, I will probably purchase from them as I can pick the stuff I want.
It is pricier, but because they are local, I can get what I need when I want
it, without shipping or waiting.
Here's their link:
http://www.clarkshardwoodlumberco.com/index.php
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261979#261979
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Matt, Tim in TX, et al,
Forgot to mention, the Okume and Birch Ply carried by Clarke's Hardwoods, are Marine
Grade, with waterproof, boilproof adhesives.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261985#261985
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a while,
I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in the '30's
and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from Chapter 1
(Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication "Aircraft Maintenance."
This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations - how ribs
were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of the various
truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point; that point
being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no explanation, but
it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be stronger, due to a significantly
larger glue joint.
Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using the GA30-613.5
airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the design. The
entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using SolidWorks. Although
FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength, and/or load factor
of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this wing, using the original
Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change I've made is the use of
a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK, I know some of you will
flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking for a tiny improvement...
)
In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements intersect.
If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques, just as
Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay for around
$30.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261989#261989
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_layout_1_184.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
While it may be a warm fuzzy to have the centerlines of all joints perfectly
intersect, it has been proven that that is not really a huge issue. As long
as the members arrive at the same location and are properly secured by
gussets there will be no problem.
Just out of curiosity, with your rib redesign are you fixing a perceived
deficiency that you have experienced while flying a Pietenpol, or are you
fixing a theoretical deficiency based on secondhand anecdotal evidence?
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:54 PM, tkreiner wrote:
>
> Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a
> while, I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in
> the '30's and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from
> Chapter 1 (Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication
> "Aircraft Maintenance."
>
> This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations -
> how ribs were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of
> the various truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point;
> that point being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no
> explanation, but it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be
> stronger, due to a significantly larger glue joint.
>
> Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using
> the GA30-613.5 airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the
> design. The entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using
> SolidWorks. Although FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength,
> and/or load factor of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this
> wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change
> I've made is the use of a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK,
> I know some of you will flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking
> for a tiny improvement... )
>
> In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements
> intersect.
>
> If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques,
> just as Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay
> for around $30.
>
> TK
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that------
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Jack that is a very nice video. My wife and I both watched and enjoyed it. That
is one beautiful and large lake.
Also thanks again for bringing your building book to Brodhead. I enjoyed looking
at it.
Jim
On Sep 7, 2009, Jack Phillips wrote:
If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck
run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running
alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand
and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just
a matter of time before somebody hits one.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
that------
Aerospace Corporation]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Robert Ray wrote:
> BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan
> it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside
> gussets be BIRCH. 1/8.
Note that it's the gussets Grega wanted to be birch, not the wedges. The
wedges are usually made from the same material as your frame truss
members--spruce, Doug fir, or whatever.
And FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about Grega's requirements. With all
due respect for him and his work, he took a plane that's built like a
tank and turned it into the shipping crate the tank came in.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Mike,
"yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually
BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that
little podunk airport..."
Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to
finish before me!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Aerospace Corporation]"
Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being
complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day
that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of
progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I
too
can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and
LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport
that
has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new
Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you
gents are
cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol
torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up
and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the
living
crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the
"foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der
Pietenpol
Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
Mike C.
Cleveland, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Gary
So nice to hear you finally have the butt ribs and the fittings done.
However, I'm sorry to say, my center section is almost finished and ALL my
ribs are built. Wing construction will start this week. I thought I felt
you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Mike,
>
> "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually
> BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that
> little podunk airport..."
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
> Michael
> D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being
> complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
> ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the
> day
> that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
> the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step
> of
> progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday
> I
> too
> can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and
> LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport
> that
> has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new
> Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you
> gents are
> cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the
> Pietenpol
> torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
> and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the
> up
> and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the
> living
> crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the
> "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der
> Pietenpol
> Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
>
> Mike C.
>
> Cleveland, OH
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | building in cramped workshops |
It is only recently that I've had the luxury of working in
half of a "real" hangar. Up until then, I worked out of
my half of a standard 2-car garage so I know what crowded
means. I had racks overhead for long pieces of material
and stuff stashed under the building table, on pegs on the
wall, and everywhere I could find an available inch of
space. However, there is something to be said for working
in a compact shop- there is very little walking to do when
going to get a tool, because everything is right there by
definition. And the shop is easier to cool in the summer
and heat in the winter. But the best part of all is that
when you do finally roll up the garage door and you get to
move the wing or fuselage out into the light of day, it
is a real great feeling... almost like it is being born.
I drive 18 min. each way from my house to the hangar and
that is really terrific as some of you guys who have to
drive an hour or more know. It's a deterrent to building
or flying when you have to plan ahead for the thing just
because the hangar or shop is so far away. When you
build in your garage (or basement, or attic, or the shop
in your back yard), it's a spur-of-the-moment thing. You
can trot out to your project in flip-flops and shorts
and get with it, with the result that you can scratch the
itch on the spot. More gets done that way.
Oh, and before I forget- that was a GREAT video, Jack! I
found myself watching the control surfaces and cables as
much as the scenery on the ground, to see how your
airplane is rigged and how things work in flight. It was
that way watching Mike Cuy's "smoking runs" video, too-
I watch the cables and controls and the airplane's response
as much as I do the fun flying stuff.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
So Gary,
Are you just going to take that?
I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns(at)att.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Gary
I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Tom,
Those old publications are a lot more practical in approach than
anything published today, that's for sure.
In general, in all trusses (which the wing rib and the fuselage are),
ideally the centerlines of the members would intersect (at points called
"nodes"). This is the ideal way to construct a truss, with all members
straight, and connections pinned, because then all members are either in
tension or compression (no bending or shear or torsion). But we all live
in the real world, rather than an ideal world. The top and bottom
capstrips are not a series of short, straight sections, but rather,
continuous, curved strips. And all of the joints are gusseted, not
pinned, which will impart some bending forces when stressed. Because of
the use of the gusseted joints, accurate alignment of the centerlines of
the members is not so critical.
One other thing to keep in mind when "designing" a wing rib for the
Pietenpol is the fact that there are the drag/anti-drag cables
criss-crossing through the structure, as well as the control cables,
which must not intersect with the rib structures.
One statement you made struck me as funny, though. You wrote that "this
wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only
change I've made is..." to change the AIRFOIL.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Well, there's 8 minutes I won't get back.
Just kidding.
Maybe the best 8 minutes of my weekend - and it was a holiday weekend,
so that's saying something.
Very nice, Jack.
Thanks for sharing.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about
latex paint maybe ?
-->
Just had a nice weekend of flying - Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
Jake:
Take a look here for Corvair engine ID
http://www.corvaircraft.com/
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "mr-fix-all" <jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com>
> OK, folks here it is, the problem is I can't definitively ID the motor,
Specs:
>
> 1965 Corvair, says 500 on the fender,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
This just in from David Paule, a retired Aerospace StrucStress analyst:
I am not a member of the Piet forum, but I read it regularly.
The reason why all the centerlines meet at the same place is to avoid local bending
moments. I'll describe.
If there were distances between the intersections of say an upright and the adjacent
diagonal, then the cap strip would carry a bending moment equal to the vertical
force from the upright times that distance. The bending moment would be
transmitted through the gussets because there's no strength at the end grain.
But the upright would carry the moment all by itself at the edge of the gusset,
and the orientation of the bending moment would load up the upright in the
flatwise direction, its weakest direction.
This common intersection of elements, added to the triangular nature of the layout,
is the difference between a "truss" and a "frame." Trusses carry only axial
forces. Frame elements also carry bending. It's an important distinction, and
since bars are better able to carry axial forces than bending moments, that's
why light-weight structures are often designed as trusses.
Incidentally, that book you referred to is a good one - I've got it. Thanks for
mentioning it, that's a service to the community, especially the newer folks.
David Paule
Retired aerospace stress analyst
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262073#262073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is some
that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises is even
more fun now.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other tooling,
the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There will be
no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires, etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Stop it now Gary, stop it now!
:-)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
>Sent: Sep 8, 2009 8:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>
>So Gary,
>Are you just going to take that?
>I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>catdesigns(at)att.net
>Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>Gary
>
>I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
>
>Chris
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
>
>
>>
>> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
>to
>> finish before me!
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Ooh, where did you get that attitude indicator?
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:46 AM, 899PM wrote:
>
> Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple
> is some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine
> noises is even more fun now.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing
something everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM, tkreiner wrote:
>
> Bill C.
>
> Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other
> tooling, the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There
> will be no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires,
> etc.
>
> TK
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt,
You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussion
of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notably
Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular.
The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, more Y-axis)
at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means that
the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Piet
airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higher
to me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry).
People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similar
climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpol original--
BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs and
will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who has
changed wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparative
data.
Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, and if
you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archives
and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing based on
a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.
Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn't speak
well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommends
the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils
for a Pietenpol.
Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in your
reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all been well
discussed on this site.
BTW, there is a strong opposing view. Many experienced builders and Piet fliers
say that the original FC 10 is as good or better than so called improvements
and has the further advantage of being authentic Piet and very, very time tested.
A few builders seeking more lift have pointed out that the builder wanting
to operate in thinner air or carry heavier loads could add four feet to the
wingspan and be assured of more lift.
That is as XXXXXXXXXX "fair and balanced" as I can be. For me it felt slightly
like a migraine headache ;-)
Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "given
at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining further
until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do, but
first things first.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Redmond
Sent: Sep 8, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing something
everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM, tkreiner wrote:
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs, and other tooling,
the positions of the various truss members has not changed. There will be
no other mods to the wing members, such as drag, anti-drag wires, etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 12:54:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
What exactly does the "new" airfoil buy you (us)? Unless I'm missing somet
hing everyone seems pretty pleased with Pietpol's original airfoil.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 11:49 AM=2C tkreiner wrote:
Bill C.
Although I'm laying out an airfoil so we can build NC rib jigs=2C and other
tooling=2C the positions of the various truss members has not changed. Th
ere will be no other mods to the wing members=2C such as drag=2C anti-drag
wires=2C etc.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262075#262075
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
====
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for most
guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is an
extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on the
average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-related
changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stall
characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever wrote:
> Matt,
>
> If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I
> have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read
> better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
> a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance
> doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
>
> Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the
> Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
> the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
>
> Just my .02
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Matt=2C
I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of 3=2C00
0ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However=2C havi
ng been a flight instructor out of a 2=2C200ft strip there were days when
with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile a
nd a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a Mo
del A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of pu
tting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing s
pan. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
of somethin' if we want to take pax.
Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Just got plans building rib jig
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast=2C but it just seems to me that for m
ost guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean=2C really
=2C is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to ma
tter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safe
ty-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad
stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible=2C but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 2:06 PM=2C Doug Dever wrote:
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Makes sense. I'm 170# at 630 MSL.
The real reason I brought it up is that Tom (started this thread) is also
designing MY wing. So whatever he does is what I'm gettin' (unless I strike
off on my own). Just want to make the right choices in the beginning and
I'm always skeptical of anything that resembles a rabbithole.
Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.
Matt
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Doug Dever wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of
> 3,000ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However,
> having been a flight instructor out of a 2,200ft strip there were days when
> with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile
> and a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
> And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a
> Model A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of
> putting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing
> span. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
> video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
> of somethin' if we want to take pax.
>
> Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
> non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
>
> OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
>
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Just got plans building rib jig
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
> From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for
> most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is
> an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on
> the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making
> safety-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming
> bad stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
>
> I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
> in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or
> cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
> have a specific need.
>
> Matt
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I
> have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read
> better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
> a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance
> doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
>
> Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the
> Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
> the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
>
> Just my .02
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
> *
>
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click
> here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
A rabbit hole don't look to bad if you're a rabbit=3B-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 15:43:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
Makes sense. I'm 170# at 630 MSL.
The real reason I brought it up is that Tom (started this thread) is also d
esigning MY wing. So whatever he does is what I'm gettin' (unless I strike
off on my own). Just want to make the right choices in the beginning and
I'm always skeptical of anything that resembles a rabbithole.
Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 3:21 PM=2C Doug Dever wrote:
Matt=2C
I think for those of us who are of std FAA weight and operate out of 3=2C00
0ft+ strips near sea level the std configuration is fine. However=2C havi
ng been a flight instructor out of a 2=2C200ft strip there were days when
with two 170lb people you did not dare fill the tanks. flying for a mile a
nd a half just to get enough alt to turn xwind.
And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to put a Mo
del A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merits of pu
tting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the wing s
pan. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just watch a
video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really need more
of somethin' if we want to take pax.
Just as there are those who question the 612 there are those who question a
non cert. powerplant even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.
OK enough of this. Has been beat to death about a month ago
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Just got plans building rib jig
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design=2C ala 1940
From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast=2C but it just seems to me that for m
ost guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean=2C really
=2C is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to ma
tter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safe
ty-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad
stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).
I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared
in making that as fast and light as possible=2C but trying to eke climb or
cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you
have a specific need.
Matt
On Tue=2C Sep 8=2C 2009 at 2:06 PM=2C Doug Dever wrote:
Matt=2C
If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed=2C and I think it is since I
have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read b
etter climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at
a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn
't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).
Me=2C I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Mo
del A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down
the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.
Just my .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. Cli
ck here.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.mat
ronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage building for Continental engine |
I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a Continental
engine.
-
Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the top-en
gine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be built? Can I use nor
mal size gussets for-those top-engine mount brackets and some wedges?
-
The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front connecti
ng the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this heavy ash member stil
l needed for a Continental and if so, can it be moved up closer to the top,
nearer the top engine mount brackets?- Or can a spruce piece be used up
at the top same as what is shown for the bottom?- (The bottom piece is 3/
4" X 3/4" spruce...seems a little small.)
-
Lastly, for now,- most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I stand th
ese pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or lay them flat- s
o they are 1/2" tall?
-
Thanks is advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand, after I added
a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident it will
do the job without failure. I will send?additional detailed photos to Chris Tracy's?Westcoastpiet.com
site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Dan....You have way too much room and way too much time on your hands....Ju
st kidding...Looks great!!!!
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 20:01:49 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand=2C after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Final version- one-piece-wing stand |
Dan=2C
There are a few times when I wish I had a jig like that.
Very nice engineering.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand
Date: Tue=2C 8 Sep 2009 20:01:49 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand=2C after
I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident
it will do the job without failure. I will send additional detailed photos
to Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com site.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Alexander <karbath1(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | powerplants for the Pietenpol |
My Pietenpol has the 85 Continental with 72/44 prop wood. I have owned many
certified aircraft, but the Piet is the most fun of them all! Takes off i
n less than 400 feet at 40 indicated and climbs at 500 ft per min at 50 ind
icated. I like to throttle back to 2000 rpm and it holds altitude while cru
ising at 60-65 indicated. How much fun is that! While it is not the roomy a
irplane that has an enclosed cockpit that some may want, this is the plane
that brings one back to the basics of flying, enjoying the scenery, waving
at friends, and not paying those huge airport fee's for parking, repairs, a
nnuals, etc. etc. It fit's my pocket book perfectly! A proven, well tested
, safe machine. Ross Alexander, Orangeville, Ontario, Canada=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A______________________
__________=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A> =0A>I think for those of us who are of std
FAA weight and operate out of 3,000ft+ strips near sea level the std confi
guration is fine. However, having been a flight instructor out of a 2,20
0ft strip there were days when with two 170lb people you did not dare fill
the tanks. flying for a mile and a half just to get enough alt to turn xwi
nd.=0A>And hey there are those who will chastise those of us that wish to p
ut a Model A or a corvair up front. As I said before I question the merit
s of putting one of the Riblett airfoils on as opposed to adding 4ft to the
wing span. Tough to beat hp and wing area. But on the other hand. Just
watch a video of Pieti Lowell's climb. There are those of us who really ne
ed more of somethin' if we want to take pax.=0A> =0A>Just as there are thos
e who question the 612 there are those who question a non cert. powerplant
even though that's how Mr pietenpol did it.=0A> =0A>OK enough of this. Has
been beat to death about a month ago =0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Doug Dever=0A>In
beautiful Stow Ohio =0A>Just got plans building rib jig=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>________________________________=0A >Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:31:48 -05
00 =0A>=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
=0A>From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com=0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A>=0A>
=0A>Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for
most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really,
is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter
on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-r
elated changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stal
l characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).=0A> =0A>I'm
also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared in m
aking that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or cruise
performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you have
a specific need.=0A> =0A>Matt=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Do
ug Dever wrote:=0A>=0A>Matt,=0A>> =0A>>If Pie
ti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I have se
en videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read better cl
imb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at a higher
angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn't come
from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).=0A>> =0A>>Me, I'm going w
ith the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Model A though. I
can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down the road. I agre
e with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.=0A>> =0A>>Just my .02=0A>>
=0A>>Doug Dever=0A>>In beautiful Stow Ohio=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>st">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>ronics.com ww.matronics.com/c
ontribution =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A >With Windows L
ive, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. =0A>=0A>=0A
>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>a
href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matr
onics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Aronics.com=0Aww.
matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AGet b
ack to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. =0A=0A=0A_
-========================
==================0A=0A=0A _________
_________________________________________________________=0ALooking for the
perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:10 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
> Lake,
> Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
> has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
> over the lake. Check it out at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
> minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I
have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000
minus the mags and carb.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a
> Continental engine.
>
> Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the
> top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be built? Can I
> use normal size gussets for those top engine mount brackets and some wedges?
>
> The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front
> connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this heavy ash
> member still needed for a Continental and if so, can it be moved up closer
> to the top, nearer the top engine mount brackets? Or can a spruce piece be
> used up at the top same as what is shown for the bottom? (The bottom piece
> is 3/4" X 3/4" spruce...seems a little small.)
>
> Lastly, for now, most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I stand
> these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or lay them flat so
> they are 1/2" tall?
>
> Thanks is advance.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Wow! That is beautiful work.
Yes, where did you get that nifty indicator?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262181#262181
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Here is the link to the website:
http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about
latex paint maybe ?
Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:10 PM, TOM STINEMETZE
wrote:
Oh Man Jack! I just drooled all over my keyboard.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith
Mountain Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a
friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the
Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind
wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Okay Tom,
As long as you're going to maintain the truss locations per the original
Pietenpol rib design (which don't actually have dimensions on the plans
- but that's another issue), you won't likely run into serious
difficulties with the cables. Worst case, you might need to shift a rib
location an inch or two to the left or right.
It was because you wrote: "Since I've designed - along with Harry
Riblett himself - a Piet rib using the GA30-613.5 airfoil..." that I
assumed you had come up with your own arrangement of the truss members,
and might have some interference issues ahead of you.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
While I don't argue the ability of the Germans to 'do it right', the Flitzer
is designed by Lynn Williams, who resides in the UK.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
> Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
> then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
> all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
>
> Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
>
>
> I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
> usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
> so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
>
>
> Russell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
NO. I think what Chris meant was that his dog has human breath!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
So Gary,
Are you just going to take that?
I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns(at)att.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Gary
I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going
to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Yes that is true but I think the original was a German
polar exploration plane built right after WW-1 and Lynn
added his extraordinary imaginative design skills to
the original to build this absolute beautiful and aerobatic
bi that's flys on VW power. I have speculated about
the fuselage built enclosing the shoulders with your head
sticking out was this to help you stay warm on a polar exploration.
Of couse German is good but my old Ford will out last your Mercedes.
Correct if this isn't correct.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> While I don't argue the ability of the Germans to 'do it right', the
> Flitzer is designed by Lynn Williams, who resides in the UK.
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> Alright now if you are anal about wedges and gussets
>> then you must go to the Flitzer web page and look at the fuselage
>> all those wedges and gusset's blowed my tiny Bozo brain.
>>
>> Check the Connecticut Flitzer Werkes out
>>
>>
>> I'll have to wow the pictures, In my opinion we all know the Germans
>> usually do it right(well untill the Russians come up with the T-34)
>> so here you go an updated modernized version of wedges gone wild.
>>
>>
>> Russell
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Either that or Chris is groveling around on the floor.
Just how big is this dog anyway?
Clif
>
> So Gary,
> Are you just going to take that?
> I think Chris just said you have dog's breath.
>
>
> Gary
> I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:
> Matt,
>
> You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussion
of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notably
Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular.
>
> The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, more
Y-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means that
the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Piet
airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higher
to me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry).
>
> People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similar
climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpol
original-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs and
will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who has
changed wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparative
data.
>
> Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, and
if you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archives
and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing based
on a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.
Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn't
speak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommends
the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils
for a Pietenpol.
>
> Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in your
reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all been
well discussed on this site.
>
> Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have to
stretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn field,
or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.
> During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts an
ideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford upside
down on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look at a Funk
installation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type (Funk) inverted.
> Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not satisfied,
he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .
> It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations with
Harry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not, All I
have to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking about.
> I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every minute,
wouldn't trade those flights for anything.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "given
at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining further
until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do,
but first things first.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
>
>
> --
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262194#262194
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Hehe....been chatting with the Baron Morrisov, perhaps?
The Flitzer is completely the creation of Mr. Williams. It is not based on
any WW1 airplane...it's just supposed to look the part, and be a simple, fun
airplane for those with a Walter Mitty bent. :P
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
> Yes that is true but I think the original was a German
> polar exploration plane built right after WW-1 and Lynn
> added his extraordinary imaginative design skills to
> the original to build this absolute beautiful and aerobatic
> bi that's flys on VW power. I have speculated about
> the fuselage built enclosing the shoulders with your head
> sticking out was this to help you stay warm on a polar exploration.
> Of couse German is good but my old Ford will out last your Mercedes.
> Correct if this isn't correct.
>
> Russell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Beautiful!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MY PANEL
Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is
some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises
is even more fun now.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Owen Davies wrote:
> And FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about Grega's requirements. With
> all due respect for him and his work, he took a plane that's built
> like a tank and turned it into the shipping crate the tank came in.
I don't usually reply to my own messages, but I'd like to apologize to
the Grega fans for the sound of the above. I referred only to the degree
of reinforcement, not to the flying or aesthetic qualities of the Grega
modification. Nonetheless, the comment sounded pretty snide. It wasn't
intended.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I am putting the naca 23012 on the piet, as suggested by Hobert Jones
who built and designed several planes, he didn't have anything negative to
say
about the airfoil he just had an affinity for the 23012 on the Taylor Craft.
I would not use it if using the Model A, I am going to buy a Continetal
a-65.
and I would like to fly from KY to Gardner KS to visit my daughter some
time and I might be able to get into the jet stream just kidding? Or take my
piano
with me.
Russell
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>
>
> timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:
> > Matt,
> >
> > You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent
> discussion of alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B,
> or most notably Riblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in
> particular.
> >
> > The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller,
> more Y-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612"
> means that the highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord,
> whereas the Piet airfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7
> percent," but it seems higher to me (from memory, not looking at either a
> rib or a drawing, sorry).
> >
> > People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds,
> similar climb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the
> Pietenpol original-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the
> Riblett ribs and will use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only
> builder and flier who has changed wings on the same plane, and flown them
> both, so as to have comparative data.
> >
> > Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like,
> and if you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking
> the archives and attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a
> wing based on a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so,
> please correct me. Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil,
> but then he doesn't speak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken
> with him, and he recommends the 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially
> either his 612 or 613.5 airfoils for a Pietenpol.
> >
> > Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include
> in your reading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has
> all been well discussed on this site.
> >
> > Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have
> to stretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn
> field, or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.
> > During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts
> an ideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford
> upside down on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look
> at a Funk installation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type
> (Funk) inverted.
> > Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not
> satisfied, he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .
> > It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations
> with Harry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not,
> All I have to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking
> about.
> > I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every
> minute, wouldn't trade those flights for anything.
> > Pieti Lowell
> >
> >
> > Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have
> "given at the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in
> opining further until I have flown the same plane with different wing sets,
> which I may do, but first things first.
> >
> > Tim in central TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
> >
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262194#262194
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jacks video a copy |
hi jack im fronm hanford and I have a copi from mick cuy is de same video o
r you have another one I like to now if is a copi aviable tanks seyou
--- On Mon, 9/7/09, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jacks video
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 6:02 PM
=0A=0A =0A=0AJack, =0A-=0Ais that all you plan to do the rest of your lif
e, cash for rides?=0A-=0A-=0AJack nice job on the video an inspiration
to all us builders hoping we can =0Ado the same in our own Piets.=0A-=0AT
hanks for sharing=0A-=0AJohn=0A-=0ASafe in the morning!
=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
NICE!
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:46 PM, 899PM wrote:
>
> Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple
> is some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine
> noises is even more fun now.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: building in cramped workshops |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
Oscar,
You made a few good points. When I was getting my biplane piet project, I wanted
to build it in the EAA hangar's near me, as they have lots of room and tools
and so forth, and they discouraged me... and were right.
I have been working in my house, and the most productive work has been in my living
room, dragging the wings in and having them in front of the TV sort of forces
you to notice and lets you hang out with your family while still working
on your project and enjoying it. If I could, I would have a large open house that
was a mix of shop and house, and would draw my family in to building things,
repairing things and enjoying accomplishing something with their hands.
My garage was totally full before I took on an airplane, so now my basement is
cramped, the garage is, and the overflow is in a shed I had to get and build.
Like everyone else I would love to have a big spacious place to build, but the
farther it is from your living room, the tougher it is to get their.
I will try to update my project pics soon, have my lower wings done now, and about
ready to start on the top wings. (Did bottom first because it can fly with
only the top, and that would make it much less likely I would ever have finished
the bottom ones, and the bottom ones needed more work.)
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262232#262232
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of pai
nted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not re
adily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine w
ith just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may s
ee a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues wi
th painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
-
Thanks again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
Mike=2C
You could use a good urethane. System Three marine comes to mind. But=2C
once painted it would be very difficult if not impossible to inspect the co
ndition of the wood.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Wed=2C 9 Sep 2009 06:51:19 -0700
From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of pai
nted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not re
adily exposed to the elements=2C (wings=2C main fuselage=2C etc.) would be
fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they
may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any iss
ues with painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
Thanks again.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
Well, as I remember varnishing the wing was a very time consuming task.
I always assumed varnish was recommended because it would be easier
years down the road to detect darkening of areas where rot had started.
>From a practical standpoint, by the time I was finished with two coats
of varnish on my wing, I had varnish everywhere, which is easier to
clean up than paint!
Ben
Michael Perez wrote:
> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look
> of painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the
> wood not readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.)
> would be fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit
> areas as they may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood
> look there.) Any issues with painting my wood structures instead of
> varnish?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a varnished
finish makes inspection possible.
Your rationale of liking the look of a painted framework.....well, I could
understand that in the cockpit areas where you will see it....but you are
talking about painting the structure that you cannot see.....so what does it
matter what it looks like? Once it's covered you won't see it (hopefully)
for years and years.....
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of
> painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not
> readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine
> with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may
> see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues
> with painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
>
> Thanks again.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
I initially left the inside plywood off and had to add it later. Its
been a few years and I don't remember exactly why... That piece does
tie the upper motor mounts to the front cabane mount, and this area does
get a lot of holes drilled through the longerons so the extra
reinforcement is a good idea. I put the ash piece where the plans call
for it, because I was going to use a Corvair and it was necessary for
the Pietenpol Corvair motor mount. Now it just reinforces the
firewall. All of the various braces should stand tall like the
longerons so they can be gusseted on both sides
Ben Charvet
Robert Ray wrote:
> Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I
> have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000
> minus the mags and carb.
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez
> > wrote:
>
> I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a
> Continental engine.
>
> Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the
> top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be
> built? Can I use normal size gussets for those top engine mount
> brackets and some wedges?
>
> The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front
> connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this
> heavy ash member still needed for a Continental and if so, can it
> be moved up closer to the top, nearer the top engine mount
> brackets? Or can a spruce piece be used up at the top same as
> what is shown for the bottom? (The bottom piece is 3/4" X 3/4"
> spruce...seems a little small.)
>
> Lastly, for now, most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I
> stand these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or
> lay them flat so they are 1/2" tall?
>
> Thanks is advance.
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
The inclinometer is a reproduction from a 1919 Carl Ort catalog if I remember correctly.
It came with my Sky Scout project. It is fairly complex and someone
had a lot of time into building it. I have the artwork for the face. The face
is aluminum, the body is a wooden assembly and the glass tubes are hand blown/bent
by presumably a neon signmaker. The vertical tube has a rubber plug thru
which I injected alcohol colored with red dye. It is very fussy to get just the
right amount in to make it accurate and repeatable. Properly set up it is accurate(so
far).
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262316#262316
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Any Piets in the Rapid City SD area? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
another pic
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262322#262322
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1244_660.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Oh boy the challenges are winging around now! Your center section looks good Chris
and thank you very much for the landing gear shock strut drawings. They really
did help.
Jim B.
On Sep 7, 2009, catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
Gary
So nice to hear you finally have the butt ribs and the fittings done.
However, I'm sorry to say, my center section is almost finished and ALL my
ribs are built. Wing construction will start this week. I thought I felt
you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Mike,
>
> "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually
> BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that
> little podunk airport..."
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
> Michael
> D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being
> complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
> ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the
> day
> that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
> the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step
> of
> progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday
> I
> too
> can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and
> LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport
> that
> has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new
> Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you
> gents are
> cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the
> Pietenpol
> torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
> and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the
> up
> and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the
> living
> crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the
> "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der
> Pietenpol
> Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
>
> Mike C.
>
> Cleveland, OH
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Not only is the birdseye maple beautiful but the indian head pennies are a nice
touch.
Jim B.
On Sep 8, 2009, 899PM wrote:
Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is some
that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises is even
more fun now.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
Your inclinometer looks similar in principal to the one used in the
Spirit of St. Louis. Very well done.
http://www.riekerinc.com/M-Inclinometer/ryan_nyp_spirit_of_st.htm
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | New Directors for EAA |
Just back in town and checking my mail.
Jack, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I have been interviewing for EAA
Board of Directors since before Sun n Fun and attended a couple of meetings
in Oshkosh. I am very excited about lending my experience to EAA and look
forward to the next three years of service. Yes, we now have a Piet Builder
on the board!
4 of the Big Piets are at the airport and are to have their inspections
and sign-offs on the 19th of this month. Whew! it's been a long time coming.
6 steel tube Piets in 6 and 1/2 years. I can't say that we have had some
test flights, but so far, hands-off. We raised the leading edge of the horiz
stab 5/16" and that really made a difference. So far, that has been the only
adjustment. Further testing will determine if that is correct.
We should have more time in the near future to post pictures and specs,
but right now the goal is to fly off the 40 hours and FLY SOMEWHERE together
as a group.
Thanks again
Barry Davis
NX973BP
PS: We did manage to get N Numbers of N971BP thru N976BP. That gives us 1
through 6 and the "BP" stands for Bernard Pietenpol and/or Big Piet. (also
976 is our EAA Chapter number)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Directors for EAA
I just got my new Sport Aviation and read that three new directors of EAA
are Homebuilders, and include Barry Davis, who formed the "Big Piet"
builder's group. Way to go Barry! We actually have a Pietenpol builder on
the EAA Board of Directors. Maybe my letter to Tom Poberezny after the
Pietenpols got short shrift in the Homebuilt Review at OSH did some good
(actually, I expect they had already chosen Barry at that time). I did
recommend to Poberezny that when he retires in two years, one of the
requirements for his successor should be that he/she had actually built an
airplane.
Congratulations, Barry!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim,
I was wondering if anyone would notice those pennies.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262348#262348
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Huh?
Why would you want to use paint?
The purpose of the varnish is to seal the wood, to protect it from
humidity changes and, ultimately avoid rot or decay. Appearance has
nothing to do with it.
Aside from the fact that paint would most likely be heavier (since it
takes pigment to give it color), and may or may not provide adequate
seal (some paints "breathe"), and the fact that none of it will be seen,
there is one more reason to question the use of paint on the wood
structure. The fabric is eventually bonded to the structure (whether
using Polyfiber, or Stits, or Stewarts or whatever), so whatever is used
to seal the wood needs to be compatible with the adhesive. Who knows how
paint would stand up to the adhesive, and how well the paint's bond to
the wood will stand up? Like others have already said, varnish allows
you to visually inspect the wood, whereas paint would not.
I've seen photos of the cockpit areas painted (fairly common in the UK),
but I think the wood is first sealed with varnish, before the paint goes
on.
So, what would be your reason for wanting to use paint?
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Mike,
Certainly, I noticed them, too. I didn't want to draw any attention to them,
'cause that's why I carry a pocket knife....
Can't wait to see pics of the rest of your plane!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL
Jim,
I was wondering if anyone would notice those pennies.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262348#262348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
Plus you are adding unnecessary weight. The pigmented coating weighs much more
than the clear varnish.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: 9/9/2009 1:46:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a varnished finish
makes inspection possible.
Your rationale of liking the look of a painted framework.....well, I could understand
that in the cockpit areas where you will see it....but you are talking
about painting the structure that you cannot see.....so what does it matter what
it looks like? Once it's covered you won't see it (hopefully) for years and
years.....
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of painted
frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not readily exposed
to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine with just paint.
I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may see a lot more
moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues with painting my wood
structures instead of varnish?
Thanks again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which
it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see what
the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach.
That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to.
The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max
UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint
but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work.
Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so.
so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth.
Russell
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of
> painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not
> readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine
> with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may
> see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues
> with painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I also heard about a wooden plane that was kept inside torn down 30 years
later and no varnish no paint no nothing despite this, the ribs were in
good shape.
the secret is keeping wood dry, wood does not dry rot, there is no such
thing.
the reason wood rots is it's moisture content. If it gets to a certain
moisture point then it will rot, the Varnish also changes the surface of
the wood for fungal attack, the fungus have had several billion years
to perfect there attack on wood, they attach then begin to send root like
projections into the wood, varnish seals it off stoping this.
There are two different schools of thought on boat building some say
seal the boat completly in epoxy some say no just seal the hull
and spray the insides with tompson or some thing in that way it can breath.
But it's your plane the most important thing is you build it the way YOU
want
as long as it's safe.
Russell
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which
> it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see
> what the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach.
> That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to.
> The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max
> UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint
> but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work.
>
> Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so.
> so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth.
>
> Russell
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
>
>> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of
>> painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not
>> readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine
>> with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may
>> see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues
>> with painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
I think even if you do your best to keep it dry you'll always have the
chance condensation will accumulate in fabric-covered structures. I
wouldn't think of failing to varnish anything I couldn't inspect easily and
often.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I also heard about a wooden plane that was kept inside torn down 30 years
> later and no varnish no paint no nothing despite this, the ribs were in
> good shape.
> the secret is keeping wood dry, wood does not dry rot, there is no such
> thing.
> the reason wood rots is it's moisture content. If it gets to a certain
> moisture point then it will rot, the Varnish also changes the surface of
> the wood for fungal attack, the fungus have had several billion years
> to perfect there attack on wood, they attach then begin to send root like
> projections into the wood, varnish seals it off stoping this.
> There are two different schools of thought on boat building some say
> seal the boat completly in epoxy some say no just seal the hull
> and spray the insides with tompson or some thing in that way it can breath.
> But it's your plane the most important thing is you build it the way YOU
> want
> as long as it's safe.
>
> Russell
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which
>> it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see
>> what the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach.
>> That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to.
>> The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max
>> UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint
>> but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work.
>>
>> Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so.
>> so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
>>
>>> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look
>>> of painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood
>>> not readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be
>>> fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they
>>> may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any
>>> issues with painting my wood structures instead of varnish?
>>>
>>> Thanks again.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
All the Brits seem to paint theirs.There would be more
UV protection. Of course that shouldn't be an issue
under the fabric. :-)
I agree that staining and discolouration will be more
visible under varnish.
I'd better believe in varnish. It's too late now! :-)
Clif
Plus you are adding unnecessary weight. The pigmented coating weighs
much more than the clear varnish.
Rick Schreiber
I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a
varnished finish makes inspection possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Thanks Ben.- I came to the same conclusion you did as far as the braces b
eing attached so that the gussets will fit both sides. Since I will be moun
ting my fuel tank up front, that large ash piece will be put in place up fr
ont, but I believe I will move mine up from what the plans show for the mod
el A. The large plywood will be going in as well. I will have to add plywoo
d every where the larger sides need to go to make up the space from my "alr
eady on" plywood.
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ben Charvet wrote:
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 3:12 PM
I initially left the inside plywood off and had to add it later.- Its bee
n a few years and I don't remember exactly why...- That piece does tie th
e upper motor mounts to the front cabane mount, and this area does get a lo
t of holes drilled through the longerons so the extra reinforcement is a go
od idea.- I put the ash piece where the plans call for it, because I was
going to use a Corvair and it was necessary for the Pietenpol Corvair motor
mount.- Now it just reinforces the firewall.- All of the various brace
s should stand tall like the longerons so they can be gusseted on both side
s
Ben Charvet
Robert Ray wrote:
> Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I
> have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000
> minus the mags and carb.
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez > wrote:
>
>- ---I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use
a
>- ---Continental engine.
>- - - - - Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up
front by the
>- ---top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be
>- ---built? Can I use normal size gussets for those top engine mou
nt
>- ---brackets and some wedges?
>- - - - - The plans for the model A show the large ash cross mem
ber up front
>- ---connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this
>- ---heavy ash member still needed for a Continental and if so, ca
n it
>- ---be moved up closer to the top, nearer the top engine mount
>- ---brackets?- Or can a spruce piece be used up at the top same
as
>- ---what is shown for the bottom?- (The bottom piece is 3/4" X
3/4"
>- ---spruce...seems a little small.)
>- - - - - Lastly, for now,- most of the various braces are 1/2
" X 1". Do I
>- ---stand these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons,
or
>- ---lay them flat- so they are 1/2" tall?
>- - - - - Thanks is advance.
>
>- ---*
>
>- ---" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pieten
pol-List
>- ---ttp://forums.matronics.com
>- ---_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>- ---*
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
Yes, I always thought the varnish was the coating of choice
simply because it has a lower viscosity and would soak into
the wood more readily than paint, thus protecting the wood
better (especially in areas that we may never get to inspect
again once the covering goes on). There is great appeal
in seeing that rich wood tone and grain and the varnish
makes it even richer and nicer, but there is also some
appeal to painting, as the Brit builders seem to prefer
when going for a semi-military look. I thought about
painting the inside of the cockpits of 41CC for that look,
but just couldn't bring myself to do away with the natural
wood.
I noticed those Indian head coins in that panel too. I'm
surprised nobody said to keep Jim away from it but we all
agreed to quit picking on him so we are doing very good on
that account.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
My thoughts were these:
-
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun, wind
, rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
-
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
-
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior spraya
ble/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was going
to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
-
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so thic
k that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
-
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
-
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
-
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
to varnish...stay tuned.
-
Thanks crew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
>From Ron Alexander, regarding painting aircraft:
"Wooden surfaces are usually covered with fabric. They still must be
properly prepared to prevent rotting problems from moisture. Usually the
part will be dry sanded and then varnished using a two-part epoxy varnish.
Solvents used in fabric covering systems will "lift" most varnishes other
than epoxies. If you plan to paint directly over the wood itself, an epoxy
varnish must be used."
Bill made many good points as to 'why use paint?', so I won't bother
rehashing those. If you do decide to be a contrarian (hehe) and paint the
entire structure, you should probably commit to some sort of a covering
system before you apply a drop of paint to your wood. You should then build
a test panel and cover it completely, using all the various products you
intend to use to cover the entire airplane, and thoroughly inspect it to
ensure that everything is going to be compatible. Better to find out if
something is not going to work on a small panel than ruin an entire
airplane's worth of covering materials.
Or you could just varnish the structure and be done with it. :)
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
>
> My thoughts were these:
>
> Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun,
> wind, rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
>
> Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
> see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
>
> With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior
> sprayable/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was
> going to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
>
> Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so
> thick that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
>
> I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
> you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
>
> It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
>
> HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
> to varnish...stay tuned.
>
> Thanks crew.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | M.E.R.F.I. this saturday |
Mike C., Don E. Skipp G. Frank P. and all other Ohio area piets, are any of
you planning on going to the merfi fly-in at Grimes Field this weekend?-
I plan on flying over at 9-10am sat morning.- It would be fun to fly 2-3
piets in formation over to Grimes.- If anyone is interested let me know
by friday.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
| From: | "corvairpiet" <shipmantwo(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Shad,
Thanks for the congrats. I just signed up for Matronics. Looking at all the
posts, I should have signed up before completing the Pietenpol. I'm going to
be at the MAAC fly-in to visit some friends this weekend. Summer is running
short pretty quick. I hope things are going well. I thank you and your dad for
the time, patients, and hospitality you offered. Happy flying and hope to see
you guys at a fly-in someday soon.
Kurt :D
--------
KS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262418#262418
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
All of you have made valid points, this is why I ask the list.
-
My covering material of choice is going to be the Stewart's water borne lin
e and the light weight Dacron.-
-
I see the benefits of the varnish and I concede that it is the best method
to use.-
-
Oscar, I am leaning more towards the military look, so I will have some pai
nt in and around the cockpits. I love the look of wood...most of our furnit
ure at home is nicely stained and urethane wood...I plan to have a combo of
wood, paint, faux/real leather...who knows at this point. I really liked t
he Indian head coin look in the other posted pictures of a finished panel,
now I have even MORE ideas!
-
Thanks again crew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Kurt,
Congrats on joining the list, but more importantly on building a beautiful
Piet. We'll be at the MAAC fly-in on Saturday, after a stop at Poplar Grove
on the way up to pickup our Corvair crankcase and 'rear accessory
housing'....we had them run the parts through the hot tank. We'll probably
get to Brodhead around 10ish, and we'll be there all day. Hopefully we will
run in to you. Have a safe flight up!
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM, corvairpiet wrote:
>
> Hey Shad,
>
> Thanks for the congrats. I just signed up for Matronics. Looking at
> all the posts, I should have signed up before completing the Pietenpol. I'm
> going to be at the MAAC fly-in to visit some friends this weekend. Summer is
> running short pretty quick. I hope things are going well. I thank you and
> your dad for the time, patients, and hospitality you offered. Happy flying
> and hope to see you guys at a fly-in someday soon.
>
> Kurt :D
>
> --------
> KS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Here is another cool idea I saw on Dennis Hall's Sky Scout at Brodhead. He stained
the visible interior cockpit wood with a really light colored stain to give
it an "old" sun-yellowed varnish look. This was on birtch plywood. I thought
it was neat and wished I had done it prior to varnishing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 10:29 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
All of you have made valid points, this is why I ask the list.
?
My covering material of choice is going to be the Stewart's water borne line and
the light weight Dacron.?
?
I see the benefits of the varnish and I concede that it is the best method to use.?
?
Oscar, I am leaning more towards the military look, so I will have some paint in
and around the cockpits. I love the look of wood...most of our furniture at
home is nicely stained and urethane wood...I plan to have a combo of wood, paint,
faux/real leather...who knows at this point. I really liked the Indian head
coin look in the other posted pictures of a finished panel, now I have even
MORE ideas!
?
Thanks again crew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
My cockpit area will will have some stain as well. Plane wood is nice, stai
ned wood, to me is nicer.
--- On Thu, 9/10/09, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 2:04 PM
Here is another cool idea I saw on Dennis Hall's Sky Scout at Brodhead. He
stained the visible interior cockpit wood with a really light colored stain
to give it an "old" sun-yellowed varnish look. This was on birtch plywood.
I thought it was neat and wished I had done it prior to varnishing.
-
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 10:29 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
All of you have made valid points, this is why I ask the list.
-
My covering material of choice is going to be the Stewart's water borne lin
e and the light weight Dacron.-
-
I see the benefits of the varnish and I concede that it is the best method
to use.-
-
Oscar, I am leaning more towards the military look, so I will have some pai
nt in and around the cockpits. I love the look of wood...most of our furnit
ure at home is nicely stained and urethane wood...I plan to have a combo of
wood, paint, faux/real leather...who knows at this point. I really liked t
he Indian head coin look in the other posted pictures of a finished panel,
now I have even MORE ideas!
-
Thanks again crew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steven sadler <steven244sadler(at)gmail.com> |
At the Broadhead reunion, I noticed a wide variety of aluminum hinge
sizes used for aileron hinges. Can anyone give me advice as to their
experience? I know I want to use the cast hinges rather than rolled, so I am
really interested in what hinge sizes people have used and how it worked out
for them.
Thanks,
Steve Sadler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Steve- I don't know if you can extrapolate the width of my hinges from this
photo but I used the extruded aluminum
hinge material as well vs. the rolled because Tony Bingelis says they are t
he preffered type to use on control surfaces.
I used some aileron hinges to join my cowling halves together as well-rivet
ed to the inside of the cowling. The hinge
pin just pulls out with a pair of needle nose pliers or my teeth if I'm fee
ling mean.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | M.E.R.F.I. this Saturday |
Shad-though the weather looks to be beautiful I believe I'm staying home.
Much as I'd like to go I'd rather save the gas
money and time to fly to the Lee Bottom Flying Field event later in the mon
th.
Hope you guys that do go have fun !
Mike C.
Hey Kip-when is the New Philadelphia fly-in ? :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Sport pilot Flight Review question |
You are a private pilot who's third class medical has lapsed but continues
to
exercise flight privileges in the light sport/ sport pilot category regulat
ions.
Can this person take a flight review in a non-light sport aircraft with a C
FI ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
My answer is yes, because you have been trained to a different
standard than a sport pilot only license. For instance, unlike a sport
pilot, those of us with tailwheel endorsements, while exercising our
privileges as a Sport Pilot, can fly any conventional gear aircraft
that meet the LS specifications which include Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Pietenpols and Champs plus others. An LSA only pilot must have an
endorsement for each aircraft type. In a flight review, you will be
doing at the PP standard and not LS standard as that is your training.
Or you could come on up here, and fly my Cub for your review.
Just one idiot's opinion.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:24 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> You are a private pilot who=92s third class medical has lapsed but
> continues to
> exercise flight privileges in the light sport/ sport pilot category
> regulations.
>
> Can this person take a flight review in a non-light sport aircraft
> with a CFI ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
Mike, I would like to give you closure on this issue but I am unable to tell you
what a G3 is since I feel disenfranchised when new words are used. However,
you should cheer up, I would bet that you know what both Viagra and Cialis are
used for! :+}
In Iraq, we caught a young soldier with 2000 viagra pills and a bunch of Pornography.
He was disciplined but not after we explained the dangers of those two
products when combined. His real punishment was the ribbing his squad gave him
for the last half of the tour.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Mike...
It worked for me. I guess I never thought about it. I just figured I couldn't
fly solo in the Decathalon that I did it in.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262458#262458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS..... |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66aqcOsnP2E&feature=related
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot checkride in a non LSA?"
For example, in a Cessna 172.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Sport pilot Flight Review question |
>I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot checkride in
>a non LSA?" For example, in a Cessna 172.
Technically I'm asking about a flight review (BFR in the old days), not a checkride
for a Sport Pilot rating but yes you've got the gist of my question -- do you need
a valid medical to get a flight review
in anything other than a Light Sport a/c.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 3G and sport pilot |
Good answers guys-thank you all.
Thanks for your offer to fly your Cub John ! I've actually taken my fli
ght review in my Pietenpol with a CFI up
front. When I hit my wake in a 360 degree turn he said "that's good enou
gh for me". (no instruments in the front so
he couldn't really tell if I lost or gained any altitude in the turn-which
is the object.
Mike C.
PS-then I had one guy one time, a lonnnnnnng time ago sign me off for a BFR
after I took him for a ride in our old
Champ. It was at an airport picnic and I was the designated pilot giving
rides as everyone else was having beer.
The ink wasn't even dry in my logbook when the CFI's wife (who had about 4
beers by then already) told me that
she now had enough nerve to go for a ride. I had done spins and loops wit
h any passenger who said they wanted
to go thru them so while we were up I asked this lady if she wanted to do a
spin and loop and she said 'absolutely-yes !"
When I landed the CFI said, "cripe sakes, the ink isn't even dry in your lo
gbook and you're already breaking FAR's."
Later he said "thank you" as I guess his wife thanked HIM later that night
for taking her to the "dumb airport picnic he
was going to."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
This is what the FARs say. Interpret as you wish.
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no
person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the
beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot
acts as pilot in command, that person has=97
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot
is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review
certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> You are a private pilot who=92s third class medical has lapsed but
> continues to
> exercise flight privileges in the light sport/ sport pilot category
> regulations.
>
> Can this person take a flight review in a non-light sport aircraft with a
> CFI ?
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | this was hilarious --nice Steve ! |
>Mike, I would like to give you closure on this issue but I am unable to
>tell you what a G3 is since I feel disenfranchised when new words are
>used.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Decathlon flight review |
That's good to hear Don--excellent. Did you go see John Dye at Salem Air Park
?
That's who I went to in their Citabria, summer 2008 for my review but my medical
was enforce then.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
>>>do you need a valid medical to get a flight review in anything other than
a Light Sport a/c.<<<
I'm going to guess 'no' (you don't need a valid medical). You aren't PIC
during your review (otherwise how could someone who hasn't had one in three
years do one legally?), so I'd think that as long as you are otherwise
qualified in the aircraft it would be okay. I mean, if you hold a
multi-engine you can take your review in a 152, right? The leap from LSA to
C172 is much smaller than that.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
> >I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot checkride in
> >a non LSA?" For example, in a Cessna 172.
>
>
> Technically I'm asking about a flight review (BFR in the old days), not a
> checkride
> for a Sport Pilot rating but yes you've got the gist of my question -- do
> you need a valid medical to get a flight review
> in anything other than a Light Sport a/c.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
That is a different question. He does not need a Sport Pilot checkride
as he is already a Private Pilot (or so he sez). He can fly a 172 for
a flight review without the medical if a CFI is in and considered PIC.
A Sport Pilot candidate must use get the checkride in the category of
LS eligible aircraft which he is going to be operating, which leaves
the 172 out.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 10, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> NGB"
>
> I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot checkride
> in a non LSA?" For example, in a Cessna 172.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
A question that has an answer related to your question:
http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=8
Excerpt:
"If he is a private pilot operating as a sport pilot, the flight review can
be done in any aircraft for which he is rated. If he is =93only=94 sport pi
lot,
it will have to be conducted in an aircraft that meets the definition of a
light-sport aircraft."
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
> >I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot checkride in
> >a non LSA?" For example, in a Cessna 172.
>
>
> Technically I'm asking about a flight review (BFR in the old days), not a
> checkride
> for a Sport Pilot rating but yes you've got the gist of my question -- do
> you need a valid medical to get a flight review
> in anything other than a Light Sport a/c.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
The answer is no you don't. Here it is from EAA:
"A flight review can be taken in any aircraft for which you are
rated (i.e., any single engine land airplane if you have an Airplane-
SEL category/class rating on your pilot certificate). However, without
an FAA medical certificate, you will not be authorized to act as pilot
in command (PIC) of an aircraft that does not meet the definition of a
LSA. This means the CFI will need to act as PIC during the flight
portion of the flight review. Make sure the CFI is aware of this
situation before you begin the flight review."
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 10, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> [ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>> I think Mike's question is really "Can I do my Sport Pilot
>> checkride in
>> a non LSA?" For example, in a Cessna 172.
>
>
> Technically I'm asking about a flight review (BFR in the old days),
> not a checkride
> for a Sport Pilot rating but yes you've got the gist of my question
> -- do you need a valid medical to get a flight review
> in anything other than a Light Sport a/c.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
3G or 3rd Generation (aka International Mobile Telecommunications-2000) is a high
speed standard set for mobile communications. Far more efficient than 2G series
(2.5, 2.75, etc.)... it makes much more efficient use of the wireless spectrum.
It also allows me to realize DSL type bandwidth on a USB network device
smaller than my cell phone, plugged into my PC... in my dusty hangar! Look
ma... no wires! LOL!
Yes Mike, there is a 4G set of standards in the works, which will keep or Pietenpol
info (and Jim jokes) flying around at lightning speed. In other words...
get use to hearing of the G services.
Hopefully no one will resurrect gravitas.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262481#262481
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
>>>3G or 3rd Generation (aka International Mobile Telecommunications-2000)
is a high speed standard set for mobile communications. Far more efficient
than 2G series (2.5, 2.75, etc.)... <<<
Maybe far more efficient but that's outweighed by the lack of infrstructure
to support it. AT&T is so bogged down that they're facing a class-action
suit for failing to provide the advertised throughput on their 3G network.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> 3G or 3rd Generation (aka International Mobile Telecommunications-2000) is
> a high speed standard set for mobile communications. Far more efficient
> than 2G series (2.5, 2.75, etc.)... it makes much more efficient use of the
> wireless spectrum. It also allows me to realize DSL type bandwidth on a USB
> network device smaller than my cell phone, plugged into my PC... in my dusty
> hangar! Look ma... no wires! LOL!
>
> Yes Mike, there is a 4G set of standards in the works, which will keep or
> Pietenpol info (and Jim jokes) flying around at lightning speed. In other
> words... get use to hearing of the G services.
>
> Hopefully no one will resurrect gravitas.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262481#262481
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 3G and sport pilot |
TWlrZSwNCllvdSBqdXN0IGhhdmUgYSB3YXkgd2l0aCB0aGUgZ2lybHMuLi4NCkphY2tAdGV4dG9y
cy5jb208bWFpbHRvOkphY2tAdGV4dG9ycy5jb20+DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgeW914oCZcmUgcmlnaHQg
SmFjayBidXQgdGhlIG9ubHkgcHJvYmxlbSBpcyB0aGF0IGFsbCBvZiB0aGVtIGFyZSA3NSBvciBv
bGRlciAhDQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
Hi, one of the reasons for sealing the timber is to stabilize it from
rapid moisture changes, another is to reduce the risk from insect
attack. Regards MikeT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
My thoughts were these:
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed
to sun, wind, rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for
years.
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared
and seldom see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good
exterior sprayable/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as
though it was going to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in
investigation.)
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put
on so thick that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at
all.
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure
...even if you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought
to me.
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying
it.
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely
will go back to varnish...stay tuned.
Thanks crew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Hell, it seems like everyone is facing a class action suit for one thing or another
in this country. Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Sue somebody! Alright...
a bit of a stretch.
I'm not defending the 3G network... I just offered a brief and general description.
In my neck of the woods (fairly un-congested), I normally get pretty decent
results using my 3G stuff. Not outweighed by poor infrastructure in my case.
Then again... I've installed a proper aerial, which in it's fixed location
and normally provides a full strength and uninterrupted signal.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262494#262494
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
| From: | steven sadler <steven244sadler(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
Thanks for the picture. From what I can see it looks like you have the 2"
hinges (i.e. 2 x 1" halves), assuming that the height of the aileron spar i
s
about 2.5". How has this worked out for you? Any problems?
Steve
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Steve- I don=92t know if you can extrapolate the width of my hinges from
> this photo but I used the extruded aluminum
>
> hinge material as well vs. the rolled because Tony Bingelis says they are
> the preffered type to use on control surfaces.
>
>
> I used some aileron hinges to join my cowling halves together as
> well=97riveted to the inside of the cowling. The hinge
>
> pin just pulls out with a pair of needle nose pliers or my teeth if I=92m
> feeling mean.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: M.E.R.F.I. this Saturday |
Hey Mike,
The New Philly fly-In was this past Sunday (kind of odd date, I
thought, being smack in the middle of the Labor Day weekend, but well
attended nonetheless). Along with a filthy gaggle of RV's, FIVE
Pietenpols showed up:
Frank Pavliga with Sky Gypsy
Don Emch
Gary bell
Skipp Gadd
And a gentleman from PA (Jim?) whom I did not know, but was a
friend of Gary's.
Put another way, that was 2 A-65's, 2 Corvairs and a Lambert.
I had bits & pieces of my project on display, which got some interest.
The Pietenpols got a place of honor right next to the main hangar,
and as always drew crowds.
It was the first time I'd seen Gary's plane, as well as the first
time I'd seen the 'new' Sky Gypsy - beautiful work on both planes!
Terry, the coordinator from the New Philly EAA Chapter was extremely
appreciative of everyone showing up. He said he will be contacting
all the pilots personally to thank them for coming, but I told him
I'd pass thanks along via the list as well.
So, thanks for showing up guys - it was good to touch base with
everyone again, and to see some new planes that looked REALLY good,
even if they did have to share the field with a bunch of filthy RV's.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> Shad=97though the weather looks to be beautiful I believe I=92m
staying
> home. Much as I=92d like to go I=92d rather save the gas
> money and time to fly to the Lee Bottom Flying Field event later in
> the month.
>
> Hope you guys that do go have fun !
>
> Mike C.
>
> Hey Kip=97when is the New Philadelphia fly-in ? J
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I have Sprint EVDO it's pretty good,
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Matt Redmond wrote:
> >>>3G or 3rd Generation (aka International Mobile
> Telecommunications-2000) is a high speed standard set for mobile
> communications. Far more efficient than 2G series (2.5, 2.75, etc.)... <<<
>
> Maybe far more efficient but that's outweighed by the lack of infrstructure
> to support it. AT&T is so bogged down that they're facing a class-action
> suit for failing to provide the advertised throughput on their 3G network.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
>>
>> 3G or 3rd Generation (aka International Mobile Telecommunications-2000) is
>> a high speed standard set for mobile communications. Far more efficient
>> than 2G series (2.5, 2.75, etc.)... it makes much more efficient use of the
>> wireless spectrum. It also allows me to realize DSL type bandwidth on a USB
>> network device smaller than my cell phone, plugged into my PC... in my dusty
>> hangar! Look ma... no wires! LOL!
>>
>> Yes Mike, there is a 4G set of standards in the works, which will keep or
>> Pietenpol info (and Jim jokes) flying around at lightning speed. In other
>> words... get use to hearing of the G services.
>>
>> Hopefully no one will resurrect gravitas.
>>
>> --------
>> Mark - working on wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262481#262481
>> s List Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | sets of Tony Bingelis books now $20 off |
Normally around $90 bucks for all four books now.....$69.99. That's a great
price for some GREAT books.
There is no way I could have built my plane and had it turn out as trouble-free
without these books and Tony's great advice. I still refer to them
from time to time when I have a question or can't recall and AN size or what kind
of cable to use around pullies...stuff like that. I saved a TON of time
and money by looking at these books before say building windshields--- he gives
you several options, ways to cut Plexi or Lexan, how to form, cold
forming, how to cut, file, burnish the edges--- and attach. When I wanted to
time my magnetos I had no idea how to time mags. Tony held my hand
and I read up on it, borrowed a timing buzz/light box and whala-- I timed my mags
perfectly, the first time and didn't have to listen to a bunch of horror
stories or old wives tales. Okay-- end of infomercial.
No compensation from EAA was provided to me for this post. (they've got enough
of my money though that's for sure:)
EAA MEMBERS SAVE $20 ON THE SET OF BINGELIS BOOKS
Bingelis BooksEAA members who buy the complete set of four Tony Bingelis best-selling
books save $20 off the regular, non-member price. Now available for only
$69.99, the set includes: Engines - a treasure of information for all aircraft
builders, restorers and mechanics; Firewall Forward - engine installation for
amateur-built aircraft; Sportplane Builder - construction methods for amateur
builders; and Sportplane Construction - an essential handbook for light-aircraft
homebuilders. Order online or call our toll-free number, 800-564-6322.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Thanks for the picture. From what I can see it looks like you have the 2" hinges
(i.e. 2 x 1" halves), assuming that the height of the aileron spar is about
2.5". How has this worked out for you? Any problems?
Steve-- that sounds about right on your size estimate for my hinges. I couldn't
be happier with the aluminum piano hinges. They seal the gap making the ailerons
much more
effective (and much less sluggish) and I have done literally ZERO maintenance on
them in 11 years besides wiping them down when I clean the airplane. Love
em'. No regrets.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I don't know I,m not at that stage but I think the installation procedure
will be different for the Continental, I plan on having a motor mount welded
up
after weight calculation's are done and that will dictate the position of
the engine.
I'm not looking at my plan but the ash members went under the Ford, This is
not
the case with the Continental motor mount with Loyd rubber mounts.
I will have a motor mount built similar to a j3 cub or T-craft and beef the
fire wall
accordingly. I will also bolt metal plating in critical areas and best of
all
is look at some one elses installation.
I have an extra plan for the Grega and will look at it tommrow and get back
to
you. I'm building the Pietenpol not the Grega but I enjoy looking at both
plans.
I also have plans for two more wooden planes and I'll look at those also
and get back to you.
Also have wondered about glue if you ever caught fire some epoxy's wouldn't
last long
so I plan on using the most heat resistant glue and reinforcment with small
bolts
and try to build some thermal insulating into this area. Also sealing cable
outlets
with fire retartant material.
Russell
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Thanks Ben. I came to the same conclusion you did as far as the braces
> being attached so that the gussets will fit both sides. Since I will be
> mounting my fuel tank up front, that large ash piece will be put in place up
> front, but I believe I will move mine up from what the plans show for the
> model A. The large plywood will be going in as well. I will have to add
> plywood every where the larger sides need to go to make up the space from my
> "already on" plywood.
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/9/09, Ben Charvet * wrote:
>
>
> From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 3:12 PM
>
> bcharvet@bellsouth.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
> >
>
> I initially left the inside plywood off and had to add it later. Its been
> a few years and I don't remember exactly why... That piece does tie the
> upper motor mounts to the front cabane mount, and this area does get a lot
> of holes drilled through the longerons so the extra reinforcement is a good
> idea. I put the ash piece where the plans call for it, because I was going
> to use a Corvair and it was necessary for the Pietenpol Corvair motor
> mount. Now it just reinforces the firewall. All of the various braces
> should stand tall like the longerons so they can be gusseted on both sides
>
> Ben Charvet
>
> Robert Ray wrote:
> > Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I
> > have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000
> > minus the mags and carb.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> speedbrake@sbcglobal.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a
> > Continental engine.
> > Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by
> the
> > top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be
> > built? Can I use normal size gussets for those top engine mount
> > brackets and some wedges?
> > The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up
> front
> > connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this
> > heavy ash member still needed for a Continental and if so, can it
> > be moved up closer to the top, nearer the top engine mount
> > brackets? Or can a spruce piece be used up at the top same as
> > what is shown for the bottom? (The bottom piece is 3/4" X 3/4"
> > spruce...seems a little small.)
> > Lastly, for now, most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I
> > stand these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or
> > lay them flat so they are 1/2" tall?
> > Thanks is advance.
> >
> > *
> >
> > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > ttp://forums.matronics.com
> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > = - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -http://wwhttp://
> forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot Flight Review question |
Mike
I hope the answer is yes, because that's what I did. I took my
bi-annual in a 172, with CFI. He said it was legal.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport pilot Flight Review question
You are a private pilot who's third class medical has lapsed but
continues to
exercise flight privileges in the light sport/ sport pilot category
regulations.
Can this person take a flight review in a non-light sport aircraft
with a CFI ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I received my copy of Sport Aviation today. I scanned it closely, but
didn't read every article. There wasn't one mention or pic of the Piet
although there was a recap of OSH. I was disappointed after the build
up from EAA and I'll chose to say no more on that.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
First off, the supplemental plans for the Piet include the drawing for the
small Continental engine mount. Instead of having something welded similar
to some other airplane, you can just get those plans and have something
welded up similar to what your airplane needs.
In addition, if you build the mount to the Piet plans there is no need to
beef up the firewall or add weight with metal plating. The mount can attach
to the fuselage with the fittings called for in the plans....no weight need
be borne directly by the firewall. Instead of consulting the Grega, why not
go back and give the Piet plans a little more eyeball time, and if you don't
have the supplemental plans (and plan on using a Continental) it may be a
good idea to order those. Also, please note Mike's post earlier about the
discount on the set of Bingelis books. A tremendous resource if you are
building your own airplane; I would second his recommendation. Have a good
night,
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I don't know I,m not at that stage but I think the installation procedure
> will be different for the Continental, I plan on having a motor mount
> welded up
> after weight calculation's are done and that will dictate the position of
> the engine.
> I'm not looking at my plan but the ash members went under the Ford, This is
> not
> the case with the Continental motor mount with Loyd rubber mounts.
> I will have a motor mount built similar to a j3 cub or T-craft and beef the
> fire wall
> accordingly. I will also bolt metal plating in critical areas and best of
> all
> is look at some one elses installation.
> I have an extra plan for the Grega and will look at it tommrow and get back
> to
> you. I'm building the Pietenpol not the Grega but I enjoy looking at both
> plans.
> I also have plans for two more wooden planes and I'll look at those also
> and get back to you.
> Also have wondered about glue if you ever caught fire some epoxy's wouldn't
> last long
> so I plan on using the most heat resistant glue and reinforcment with small
> bolts
> and try to build some thermal insulating into this area. Also sealing cable
> outlets
> with fire retartant material.
>
> Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A better Bill Rewey story |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
All,
I ran across a news story from Channel 3000, which is apparently a southern
WI news website. Anywho, they had a pretty decent story about Bill's
incident. Bill's interviewd too.:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/20561747/detail.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
If you go to EAA web site and search on Pietenpols you'll find a bunch
and I do mean a bunch of sport aviators and experimenters with great
articles on Pietenpols, you can order these if they have them in stock.
I think the first one was in the fifty's. Also Time magazine did an article
in 1995 on the Pietenpol or was 1996 oh well.
Russell
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Dick N. wrote:
> I received my copy of Sport Aviation today. I scanned it closely, but
> didn't read every article. There wasn't one mention or pic of the Piet
> although there was a recap of OSH. I was disappointed after the build up
> from EAA and I'll chose to say no more on that.
> Dick N.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Decathlon flight review |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Mike,
No I had Forrest Barber with a borrowed plane.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262554#262554
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | M.E.R.F.I. this saturday |
Shad, Can't make it to MERFI this year, maybe next year. Got my reservation for
Lee Bottom, so if I can't fly because of weather I can drive.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 9/10/2009 11:23:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: M.E.R.F.I. this saturday
Mike C., Don E. Skipp G. Frank P. and all other Ohio area piets, are any of you
planning on going to the merfi fly-in at Grimes Field this weekend? I plan on
flying over at 9-10am sat morning. It would be fun to fly 2-3 piets in formation
over to Grimes. If anyone is interested let me know by friday.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
I was amazed at the effects of moisture content recently. For my wings the
wood had been cut, planed, and then allowed to dry for about a year. Wings
were built, then had 3 coats of varnish applied. Fitting were attached and
torqued to the proper specs. The fist wing was hung in the "rafters" for
storage. This spring I was surprised to find most fittings were very loose
from continued shrinking. I will check them once again this fall before
covering.
Jack
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Tunnicliffe
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
Hi, one of the reasons for sealing the timber is to stabilize it from rapid
moisture changes, another is to reduce the risk from insect attack. Regards
MikeT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael <mailto:speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Perez
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
My thoughts were these:
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun, wind,
rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior
sprayable/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was
going to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so thick
that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
to varnish...stay tuned.
Thanks crew.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
05:50:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Russell,
I think what your missing in Dick's comment is that the Pietenpol held
the place of honor durning the 2009 OSH and Sport Aviation did not print
one word about it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation
If you go to EAA web site and search on Pietenpols you'll find a bunch
and I do mean a bunch of sport aviators and experimenters with great
articles on Pietenpols, you can order these if they have them in
stock.
I think the first one was in the fifty's. Also Time magazine did an
article
in 1995 on the Pietenpol or was 1996 oh well.
Russell
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Dick N.
wrote:
I received my copy of Sport Aviation today. I scanned it closely,
but didn't read every article. There wasn't one mention or pic of the
Piet although there was a recap of OSH. I was disappointed after the
build up from EAA and I'll chose to say no more on that.
Dick N.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/10/09 18:12:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
For my last BFR, I shopped around until I found a CFI that could be convinc
ed that his weight in my Piet would put it over gross. The solution was as
hoped; he would observe from the ground. We pre-briefed a routine (nordo) a
nd off I went Of course I kept the Piet between his position on the ground
and the sun so-I basically flew back and forth for about 20 minutes and c
alled it complete. After landing he signed me off and took my money. Sure h
ope that guy lives a long time!!=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | excellent Bill Rewey tv story/interview |
Thank you for finding and posting that Ryan. Bill is a real gentleman and
obviously kept his
cool during one of the most dreaded times to have an engine failure. We'
re fortunate to have
Bill as one of our Pietenpol veterans.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage building for Continental engine |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
On another point...
I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that
catches fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my
epoxy stands up to this heat".
BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Wow Jack, I better check all of mine. My wing has been done since '04 and
I have not checked any of them. Thanks!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:13 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
I was amazed at the effects of moisture content recently.=C2- For my win
gs the wood had been cut, planed, and then allowed to dry for about a year
.=C2- Wings were built, then had 3 coats of varnish applied.=C2- Fitti
ng were attached and torqued to the proper specs.=C2- The fist wing was
hung in the =9Crafters=9D for storage.=C2- This spring I wa
s surprised to find most fittings were very loose from continued shrinking
.=C2- I will check them once again this fall before covering.
Jack
www.textors.com
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Tunnicliffe
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
=C2-
Hi, one of the reasons for sealing the timber is to stabilize it from rapi
d moisture changes, another is to reduce the risk from insect attack. Rega
rds MikeT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
0
My thoughts were these:
=C2-
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun, win
d, rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
=C2-
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
=C2-
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior spray
able/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was goin
g to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
=C2-
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so thi
ck that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
=C2-
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
=C2-
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
=C2-
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
to varnish...stay tuned.
=C2-
Thanks crew.
=C2-
=C2-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
13.87/2356 - Release Date: 09/11/09 05:50:00
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
I really looked hard in anticipation that the Pietenpol would be celebrated
as a premier guest to the EAA event. I was really disappointed in the no
mention, honorable and not. I think the EAA could have and should have
included the Piets in a feature. RVs are nice and with the exception of the
paint schemes one is like another. Really not a lot of builder creativity
there.
I am not doubting the amount of reading and working or discounting the RV
group, however I did run across another builder some time ago as he was
looking at my project. I asked what he was building, he replied " an RV,
isn't everybody"?
Short of really interesting paint jobs there is little room for the
builders personality and craft to come out. The only difference between the RV
and a 172 is the size of the box it comes in
I like both airplanes, and celebrated in their own right however you'll
never get a Box O Pietenpol nor will you find an 80 year old 172 or an RV.
I received the solicitation survey from the EAA and in the section that
asked for comments I kinda let my thoughts be known about getting too far
from the roots of the organization and becoming too much like an AOPA clone.
Just my thoughts and honest opinion.
Giving fairness to the commentary I do have to say I was really pleased
when Dicks Piet made the front cover.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A better Bill Rewey story |
Thanks for sending this article Ryan.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
On Sep 10, 2009, Ryan Mueller wrote:
All,
I ran across a news story from Channel 3000, which is apparently a southern WI
news website. Anywho, they had a pretty decent story about Bill's incident. Bill's
interviewd too.:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/20561747/detail.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Builders in New Jersey |
| From: | "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net> |
Are there any Air Camper builders in NJ or surrounding states?
I'd like to come and see your project.
Please contact Hugh, hwaller(at)optonline.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262576#262576
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Dick was right-they did not mention squat about the 80th Anniversary Gather
ing of Pietenpols that Bill Rewey, Greg Cardinal,
and Doc Mosher worked so diligently to make happen.
All this hype I got from Joe Norris at EAA about "we want as many Pietenpol
s in the Showcase Homebuilt Review as possible"
was also a bunch of crap. They cut Jack Phillips out and a bunch of other
homebuilts because one hand at EAA doesn't know what
the other hand is doing-that became extremely evident when I tried to coord
inate the Piet pilots with Joe Norris at EAA who
handed me off to this poor volunteer who is in charge of listing the guys/g
als to fly in that little 12 minute window and walked
away saying "okay-this guy will take care of you". Thanks a lot. The
y have their heads up their butt holes at EAA when the
new Piper Jet and Auger-In Cessna SpinMaster Skycatcher and other factory b
uilt airplanes get TOP BILLING and homebuilts
get a measly 12 minute window to do a little fly-by twice during a SEVEN DA
Y EVENT. Oh no-let's show you the latest Light
Sport Airplanes that cost upwards of $200,000 !!!!!!!!! Oh yeah-that's af
fordable. (for Bill Gates or Harrison Ford)
Am I mistaken or wasn't EAA founded and flourished by HOMEBUILT AIRPLANES,
no ? We've taken a huge backseat to the glitz
and glamour of glass panels and factory built airplanes. Mooneys to Osh
kosh and Bonanza's to Oshkosh MASS FLY in's got WAYYYY
more attention than Pietenpols got---look at the daily photos and videos po
sted at EAA.org and you'll see all the Paris Air Show
type hype that has taken over the mindset of EAA.
With all that venting out of my system I want to emphasize that I LOVE OSHK
OSH--- it is the best air show in the country and perhaps
the world but I have a beef with homebuilts being relegated to lowest class
status.
Lastly I do want to thank EAA for giving us PRIMO PARKING spots---- a fanta
stic parking area right by the main brown gate with the
gorgeous display of flowers and new park benches to sit on--- and I want to
thank EAA for helping us celebrate our event by giving
every showplane participant the 2009 EAA patch which featured an embroidere
d Pietenpol Air Camper (a Continental powered one
by the way:) ) with the words Pietenpol Air Camper 80th Anniversary on it.
Maybe we'll get a token recognition in Sport Aviation one EAA kisses the a
sses of all the big corporate sponsors that they cow tow to
anymore.
And to be really fair, all of the VAST improvements that EAA has done this
past year to the grounds, the increased shade, grassy areas
and reduced go-kart, golf-cart, and "important persons driving vehicles all
over the place" probably wouldn't have been possible without
the big buck sponsors like Ford, ACS, and such so in that regard I can't be
grudge them because we do benefit from some of those
sponsorships.
Bottom line-I just wish EAA would focus a little more on what made them gre
at: affordable homebuilt airplanes that are economical
to build, maintain, and fly for the common working person.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are th
e rolled type, not extruded.- I know the extruded are the recomended type
, but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive a
t 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha.- Either one will work on
a piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will
bind up when moved.
-
Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more longe
vity,
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Off topic, but interesting |
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?- I
t was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.- It
had a big turboprop longer wings etc etc.- Never was bought by the air fo
rce so it is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer.- 4 were built and one j
ust happens to be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton.- Google
it for some photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't
know" information.
-
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at ou
r EAA meeting the other night.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Builders in New Jersey |
I am in Lancaster county PA which is 2 hours and 10 from the center of NJ 5
miles north of LNS if you're interested
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I found the same thing... and I too looked closely. There might have been a wing
in the frame when thy shot a pic of the archway, but nothing more. Bummer.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262591#262591
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | totally non-Pietenpol related |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Forget about 3G and 4G.
Maybe what you need is 1P.
check this out:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-Int
ernet-in-South-Africa
Sometimes the old-fashioned things are better than the new stuff - which
actually makes this Pietenpol related, in a roundabout sort of way.
Bill C.
<http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-In
ternet-in-South-Africa>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The "E"
in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands for
EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, factory-built
(although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is a factory-built
plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus definitely seems to be on
factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and that doesn't seem right, given
the name and mandate of the organization. I realize that the vast majority
of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have no interest in or desire to build
(or assemble) their own plane, and would much rather buy (or just look at)
something shiny and "off the shelf" - and as a business, the EAA needs to cater
to their customers, but honestly, the virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and
whatever else was parked up at the North end just puts me to sleep. Having said
that, this year was my first visit to Oshkosh, and I did enjoy myself. There
was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected to homebuilts that I DID find
interesting and entertaining, and I did not manage to see everything I wanted
to in the three days I was there, so it ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is
definitely the only place in the world where you would get to see all that they
have to offer - incredible daily airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds
of Vintage and Warbird aircraft, in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique
and rare planes that Oshkosh can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster
bomber... to name a few). Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do
a fantastic job of co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge
on one small place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in the shuffle.
It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to play the
role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an article about
the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because they're working on
a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed a bit more time to give
it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
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| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Hey Mike why don't you tell us how you really feel. :-) I agree in many
respects but also realize who's paying the ad rates for the mag. I would
guess future articles will reflect on the anniversary and I also remember
the great article and cover on Dick's bird. Also it's great to have a
fellow builder on the Board. Thank goodness I took my blood pressure pill
this AM. I need it with the falling of our Constitution and Nation. Hope
everyone kept those in mind this morning that perished in 911.
Take care!
Jack
www.textors.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation
Dick was right-they did not mention squat about the 80th Anniversary
Gathering of Pietenpols that Bill Rewey, Greg Cardinal,
and Doc Mosher worked so diligently to make happen.
All this hype I got from Joe Norris at EAA about "we want as many Pietenpols
in the Showcase Homebuilt Review as possible"
was also a bunch of crap. They cut Jack Phillips out and a bunch of other
homebuilts because one hand at EAA doesn't know what
the other hand is doing-that became extremely evident when I tried to
coordinate the Piet pilots with Joe Norris at EAA who
handed me off to this poor volunteer who is in charge of listing the
guys/gals to fly in that little 12 minute window and walked
away saying "okay-this guy will take care of you". Thanks a lot. They
have their heads up their butt holes at EAA when the
new Piper Jet and Auger-In Cessna SpinMaster Skycatcher and other factory
built airplanes get TOP BILLING and homebuilts
get a measly 12 minute window to do a little fly-by twice during a SEVEN DAY
EVENT. Oh no-let's show you the latest Light
Sport Airplanes that cost upwards of $200,000 !!!!!!!!! Oh yeah-that's
affordable. (for Bill Gates or Harrison Ford)
Am I mistaken or wasn't EAA founded and flourished by HOMEBUILT AIRPLANES,
no ? We've taken a huge backseat to the glitz
and glamour of glass panels and factory built airplanes. Mooneys to
Oshkosh and Bonanza's to Oshkosh MASS FLY in's got WAYYYY
more attention than Pietenpols got---look at the daily photos and videos
posted at EAA.org and you'll see all the Paris Air Show
type hype that has taken over the mindset of EAA.
With all that venting out of my system I want to emphasize that I LOVE
OSHKOSH--- it is the best air show in the country and perhaps
the world but I have a beef with homebuilts being relegated to lowest class
status.
Lastly I do want to thank EAA for giving us PRIMO PARKING spots---- a
fantastic parking area right by the main brown gate with the
gorgeous display of flowers and new park benches to sit on--- and I want to
thank EAA for helping us celebrate our event by giving
every showplane participant the 2009 EAA patch which featured an embroidered
Pietenpol Air Camper (a Continental powered one
by the way:-) ) with the words Pietenpol Air Camper 80th Anniversary on it.
Maybe we'll get a token recognition in Sport Aviation one EAA kisses the
asses of all the big corporate sponsors that they cow tow to
anymore.
And to be really fair, all of the VAST improvements that EAA has done this
past year to the grounds, the increased shade, grassy areas
and reduced go-kart, golf-cart, and "important persons driving vehicles all
over the place" probably wouldn't have been possible without
the big buck sponsors like Ford, ACS, and such so in that regard I can't
begrudge them because we do benefit from some of those
sponsorships.
Bottom line-I just wish EAA would focus a little more on what made them
great: affordable homebuilt airplanes that are economical
to build, maintain, and fly for the common working person.
Mike C.
05:50:00
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| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Joe Norris response from EAA |
I ended up forwarding my post about EAA to Joe Norris who did do much to he
lp with our gathering at EAA but in going back and forth will Joe off-list
we discussed what I thought was going to be a "Pietenpol Homebuilt Review"
only or perhaps that we would be highlighted in the event but that was not
the case and many other homebuilders ready to fly (with other planes besid
es Pietenpols) were scratched from the homebuilt review.
Joe's response below.
I appreciate his honesty in his responses and sounds like it was just a sna
fu-but one that he's going to make sure doesn't happen again.
Mike,
I appreciate your comments. Garry and Janet Kingma do a great job on the H
omebuilt Review. What happened with the Wednesday Homebuilt Review this ye
ar was not their fault. They were told different things by different peopl
e and they did the best they could. My job for the future is to make sure
such things don't happen again. I'm working on that already.
The fact that people were allowed to taxi into position and then were told
they would not be allowed to fly is TOTALLY unacceptable, and I already mad
e that point clear to the people responsible. Hopefully that point will be
remembered in the future. (I'll work to see that it is.) You are not bei
ng "nit-picky" at all in being upset about this. I was upset too, and I kn
ow this issue gave EAA a huge black eye. We deserved it in this case.
Again, I appreciate your comments and welcome your input at any time. It's
VERY important that we get this feedback from the membership. Keep it com
ing!
Thanks!
Joe
Joe Norris
EAA 113615 Lifetime
Homebuilders Community Manager
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| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Good post Bill and to add to that I'm always going to attend Oshkosh- it is the
BEST thing general aviation has going and you won't see what you see there anywhere
else so with the downside there is a HUGE UPSIDE to EAA and what they offer
both at the show and online-- a wealth of info and diversity which is fantastic
because as they say, there is something for everyone.
I will never be one of those negative curmudgeons who says "I'm never going to
renew my membership in EAA or go there again" Great ! We don't need people
like that anyway since they just suck the life out of those around them with
negativism. Stay home--we'll have fun going to Oshkosh again and again when
able !
I think guys like Joe Norris are on the right track being a cog in the gears at
EAA but he (I think) fights an uphill battle trying to balance the corporate
nature of the event and the little guy homebuilding interests.
Mike C.
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| Subject: | Re: A better Bill Rewey story |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
This is a great story! Can't think of anyone else that I would ever want to give
my own kids a young eagles ride in any type of an airplane. When the unexpected
happens you rely on your experience, and Bill has plenty.
DW
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| From: | Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the
air, I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
On another point...
I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that
catches fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my
epoxy stands up to this heat".
BC
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| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Mike:
That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
somebody some heartache someday.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the air,
I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T
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| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Builders in New Jersey |
I'm in State College, PA. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:16:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Builders in New Jersey
Are there any Air Camper builders in NJ or surrounding states?
I'd like to come and see your project.
Please contact Hugh, hwaller(at)optonline.net
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| From: | Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the
fuel drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight
fibreglass cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of
seconds. When throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a
circut and landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable
stretch of coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would
have been very different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the
epoxy bonding the ply was still in good condition, I guess the ply
limited the heat transfered through. Changes made after this incident:
muffler made of heavier and less brittle grade of stainless, supported
further away from fuse and flexibly mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The
story does not stop there as the new muffler had a tail pipe that was
horizontal with the bottom of the fuse, and on the next flight I felt a
little off colour, I then saw the CO indicator was black. Time to get
back on the deck and modify the exhaust yet again. I now do thorough
checks after making any changes as the unexpected can and does happen.
The aircraft in question was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a Pietenpol.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Mike:
That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
somebody some heartache someday.
Stinemetze
September 04, 2009 - September 11, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-if