RV-Archive.digest.vol-bw
September 08, 1996 - September 18, 1996
> >metal part in a wing, such as a rib. If the light is on, and the
> >insulation abrades away, the wire will intermittently or permanently short
> >to ground. With a fuse, the overcurrent will blow the element in the
> >fuse, before the wire can get hot and start a fire (although the spark
> >could ignite fuel vapors before the fuse blows). With a breaker, the
> >bimetallic element in the breaker heats up (more slowly than the fuse) and
> >trips the breaker. With the solid state device, the PTC device gets hot,
> >increasing it's resistance, and shutting down current flow to the nav
> >lights. Actually, about 1/30th of an amp continues to flow, which is not
> >enough current to heat up any wiring. The voltage drop across the PTC
> >device keeps the device hot (about 100 degrees C), and the device stays
> >"tripped". The load presented to the circuit by the nav lights will keep
> >the device tripped even if the short is intermittant.
> >
> >The devices used are made to perform this function, and can do this over
> >and over, thousands of times without damage. To reset the device, power
> >is removed from the circuit for about 10 seconds (by switching off the nav
> >light) , the device cools and switches back on, and the circuit is
> >restored. If the short still exists, the device will immediatly trip
> >again.
> >
> >We demonstrated this scenario literally hundreds of times at Oshkosh this
> >year. These devices are used in automibiles and also in military
> >electronics manufactured by Control Vision. No smoke and no mirrors used
> >here. Using these devices, we have produced a PC board with switches
> >mounted on it that replaces up to 16 fuses and circuit breakers in a small
> >aircraft. Because these devices are quite inexpensive, we are able to
> >offer the entire assembly for $249,. slightly less than the cost of the
> >individual circuit breakers it replaces.
> >
> >This is not a scam, we are offering this product with a 90 day money back
> >guarantee, and a 1 year warranty. A builder can save time, money, panel
> >space, troubleshooting, and weight. Remember: "Simplicate and save
> >weight".
> >
> >Email me if you have any questions:
> >jay(at)controlvision.com
>
> Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
Hey guys, this is getting out of hand. Knock off the commercials. Put you
add (paid) in some a/c mag and leave this list for us who like to enjoy
others building experiences.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
>I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
back-up system.<
What are you going to do when the VOR goes down or is notamed out?
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
<<
A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the
other.
You would always want the battery switch on if you had the alternator on, but
in the rare case that the alternator "runs away" and starts putting out
excessive current you can shut it down without shutting off the main buss.
That's why the "Cessna" master/alternator switch (the double red one) is
keyed so the master can be turned ON by itself, or the alternator OFF by
itself, but not the other way around.
Incidentally, I was at the first flight of Ken Hitchmough's RV6A, and I have
since been for a flight in it - it is fabulous. My workmanship is not of the
same standard, so at Oshkosh, I will have to park in an inconspicuous place
out of sight. >>
I know the feeling. Seeing some of the craftsmanship is amazing. I'm doing
quality work, but I'd like to FLY before the next millenium... :)
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Same old problem Lyc. IO-360 #1 runs too cold #3 too hot. What is a good
>starting size for the air dam on the inlet side for # 1&3?
>
>gunna get this right yet
>
>JMP RV-6 450 hr
I started with about 1 1/2 inches tall in front of cylinders 1 & 2 and went
to just over 3 inches. The 3 inch "dams" increse CHT on the front two
cylinders 50-75 degrees. I remove them in the summer. Still, at reduced
throttle settings, CHTs are a little uneven. At full throttle cruise (at
7,500 or above, 2560 rpms) CHTs even out pretty good, within 50 degrees of
each other. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
>Same old problem Lyc. IO-360 #1 runs too cold #3 too hot. What is a good
>starting size for the air dam on the inlet side for # 1&3?
Factory drawings are very close for a start.
check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Inet PO1" <inet.po1(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Mail |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
Message: RV-List: TT angle of movement
Sent: Sun, Sep 8, 1996 6:39 AM
On Server: Dallas Post Office
Date: Mon, Sep 9, 1996 6:45 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: October KITPLANES |
Just finished brousing the subject mag, and feel a lot lighter. Thought
the list might like to know, there are three excellent RV articles:
Carl Hays's hand flown RV6
Part II of Mazda conversion of RV4
Chuck Berthe's RV4 upgrade to 180HP, CS prop.
Ken Smith RV6 Empenage waiting for replacement parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
> . Consistently using this
> list for commercial gain is dangerous to the list's well being.
> Elon
> ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
Please explain.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
> Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
> what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
> anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
>
>...
>
> What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
> to Avery, in other words?
The builder's manual includes a list of all the tools needed, and John
Hovan's page links to a list of all the tools you could possibly use.
Somewhere between these two is the probable reality, dictated by your
money, skills, and preferences. I ignored Avery's 'kit' and made up my
own (Avery will give you discounts for spending enough money), based on
the tools I needed to complete the tail kit. Not only did this let me
get started with less money, but also left me with fewer tools to get
rid of should I abandon the project. However, the bug has bit, so I've
bought the rest of the tools I need. Also, what you need depends on
what you already have. In short, you'll have to decide for yourself
what to buy. IMHO, the more power tools, the better.
PatK - RV-6A - Left aileron assembled and ready for primer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & cable |
>Has anyone experienced slop in their pitch trim cable? Since new (150 hrs)
>I've had a bit of play in the vernier, whereby the first 2-3 cranks on the
>knob are ineffective, followed by "oops, too much" on the next turn.
> Physically moving the trim tab, I get about a half inch of free play.
>
BestBillo; I've got the same. From asking others over the years, and
somewhere in there a word from Vans, is that it's 'normal'. I don't like
it, because as you say, the 'reversal' when trimming, but I haven't been
able to figure out a cure for it. My trim tab has about 3/8 to 1/2 inch
play in it, and as you move it, you can see the cable moving back and forth,
that is why I feel that the slop is in the cable/vernier part. If I reverse
my trim desire in flight, I just automatically rotate about a full turn and
a half before it takes a bite on trim. If you come up with a cure, let us know.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
>A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
>the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the other.
>>You would always want the battery switch on if you had the alternator
>>on, but in the rare case that the alternator "runs away" and starts
>>putting out excessive current you can shut it down without shutting
>>off the main buss. That's why the "Cessna" master/alternator switch
>> (the double red one) is keyed so the master can be turned ON by
>>itself, or the alternator OFF by itself, but not the other way around.
Ed's comments are true but I would caution readers not to depend upon
an alternator control switch as the primary means for controlling a
runaway alternator. When a regulator goes south, voltages on the bus
rise in MILLISECONDS . . . . Given proper ov protection, you'll never
see an OverVoltage lamp turn on. The alternator should be AUTOMATICALLY
shut down so the first light you'll see is the LowVoltage Warning lamp.
This design and fabrication philosophy should put your worries so
far removed from possibilities that ganging alt and battery together
is an entirely appropriate thing to do. Pullable ALT FLD breaker
is a useful maintenance tool for killing the alternator.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.southwind.net/~nuckolls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
> What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
> to Avery, in other words?
The FAQ has a pretty good list. To sum it up:
1. Avery's big tool kit
2. Drill bit stops
3. 15 or so cleco side clamps -- some of both sizes
4. Lots of Sharpies
5. Riveters tape
6. A back rivet plate of some sort
7. Jewelers files for cleaning up edges of sheared aluminum
8. Small (1-inch and 2-inch) Scotchbrite wheels with mandrel for same
9. Assortment of woodworking clamps
10. Decent touch-up spray gun
11. Fan rivet hole marking guide
I also bought a floor-stand drill press, and I love it. When it's not being
a drill press, the table is being an adjustable height work area for
supporting the opposite end of long parts that I'm working on.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Satellite coverage? Where on earth (to coin a phrase) whould this be a problem?
Chris
>
> >I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
> where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
> back-up system.<
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrics... |
>r.acker wrote:
>>
>> I found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt. Has anybody looked into this, have
>> other comments?
>>
>> >ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>> >if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>Hey guys, this is getting out of hand. Knock off the commercials. Put you
>add (paid) in some a/c mag and leave this list for us who like to enjoy
>others building experiences.
>
>Fred
>
Whoa Fred. It's not an ad posted by a company to the list (see first line
of message). I was posting it to ask if this would be a viable addition to
my building experience. Thanks.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TT angle of movement & design change |
>I have just finished building my Trim Tab. I have looked through the plans
>and manual and don't see any mention of how much it is supposed to be able
>to deflect up and down. I'm installing the electric trim, which I
>understand reduces the amount of movement over the manual trim, and need to
>know where to place the trim tab horn so I get the proper amount of
>movement.
I believe 30 deg up and down is called for. I'd build and place the horn to
spec. One of the Rockets I built had this option, and it didn't seem to have
enough trim on short final (these birds are nose heavy anyway). I adjusted
the tab for proper travel in the nose up direction, and this left less nose
down. Still no good, so I made up a different tab, similiar to the tabs on a
V-35 Bonanza (extended chord), and this fixed the problem. The different tab,
with separate top & bottom skins, was much easier to build, BTW.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg fairings/wheel pants |
There were two names and phone numbers that showed up on the list which may
need additional clarification.
Tracy Saylor (805) 933-8225 sells the fiberglass gear leg fairings like on
his RV-6.
This one is self evident.
Klaus Savier (805) 933-3299 sells the wheel pants that Tracy is using.
However, to use these wheel pants, you need to use Lamb tires and tubes. I
have not made this change myself, but I understand that a change to the axle
nut may be required.
There are two advantages to making this change to the tires, tubes, and wheel
pants.
1.) Tracy Saylor says that you add checking the tire pressure to the
list to be
accomplished during each annual inspection (60psi).
2.) Less Drag. Tracy observed a speed increase of 5 mph over either of
Van's
5x5 wheel pant installations.
If I can get this onto my RV-3, I'll let you know what I observe.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (Original 1/8" thick spar segments with
rear spar/center section modification)
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Byron Ward <award(at)tardis.svsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
>
> BTW-- In contemplating an RV, I would like to know IF there have been
> any in-flight break-ups?
>
I don't know whether this is true or not, but my instructor said
something about how a few pilots had pulled the wings on his type of RV
(it's either a 3 or a 4) prior to some structural modifications.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Rudder Stiffeners |
I know everyone must think this has been beaten to death by now, but I
had an idea I thought I'd share. The instructions say that one could
use Proseal instead of RTV to strengthen the surfaces if one had a
builder close by with some to spare. I'm thinking that I will put
Proseal between the stiffeners and the skin as well to strengthen this
area. I understand it's quite a good adhesive, and this seems to be an
application where the extra strength would help. If I can't scrounge
some, I'll order it from Van's. By the way, on drawing 7PP on the
RV-8, it looks like the clearance is about 5/16 between the stiffeners
and the trailing edge at the closest point when you transfer the scale
dimensions.
Steve Johnson
RV-8
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg fairings/wheel pants |
There were two names and phone numbers that showed up on the list which may
need additional clarification.
Tracy Saylor (805) 933-8225 sells the fiberglass gear leg fairings like on
his RV-6.
This one is self evident.
Klaus Savier (805) 933-3299 sells the wheel pants that Tracy is using.
However, to use these wheel pants, you need to use Lamb tires and tubes. I
have not made this change myself, but I understand that a change to the axle
nut may be required.
There are two advantages to making this change to the tires, tubes, and wheel
pants.
1.) Tracy Saylor says that you add checking the tire pressure to the
list to be
accomplished during each annual inspection (60psi).
2.) Less Drag. Tracy observed a speed increase of 5 mph over either of
Van's
5x5 wheel pant installations.
If I can get this onto my RV-3, I'll let you know what I observe.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (Original 1/8" thick spar segments with
rear spar/center section modification)
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
Tom Sargent, in regards to GPS, writes:
>
> What do they mean by "Augmentation systems to enhance .. integrity"?
>
> I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
> where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
> back-up system.
>
> Are they actually going to launch more satellites? That's pretty expensive
> too.
The GPS system is being augmented with a system of ground monitor
stations, a few master stations (I think 2 of them), and the use of
maritime satellites (INMARSATs). The ground monitors will monitor all
of the satellites for proper data, relay the information to the master
stations, which condense the data and relay it to the INMARSATs for
retransmission to all users (GPS receivers). The idea is that all GPS
receivers will be able to receive system integrety messages (eg.
Satellite #17 is transmitting bad data, don't use it).
Additionally (I think), the INMARSATS are being fitted with GPS
transmitters, so that they can transmit the standard GPS data for use
in navigation, thus increasing the number of satellites in the whole
constellation.
The whole thing is called the Wide Area Augmentation System, or WAAS.
That is all.
Hank Eilts
RV6 tail under way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hot/or/cold (also Gripe!!) |
>>Thanks ... as I remember most I have seen were about 3/4" to 1 "
>>
>>JMP
>>
>>
>Just a small gripe but I gotta do it anyway.
>
>Maybe I have a small irritation factor but when I get a posting like the one
>above I'm lefting wondering what was 3/4" to 1".
Well, I agree. I have to look at the Re: and sometimes the post doesn't
make sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ALSO:
It would be helpful if the TYPE of aircraft you're posting about is listed
at the top of your post, ie RV-6, RV-3 as I sometimes get halfway through a
post to find out I don't need to know things about a flip-up canopy because
the -4 doesn't have one. Just may make it easier to sort through the mass
of mail we get on the list.
Just a thought
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV-4 232SQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weichert, Wolfgang" <WOLFGANG.WEICHERT(at)nrc.ca> |
| Subject: | Sensenich 70CM metal propeller |
I have a Sensenich 70CM prop installed on my RV-6. On Sensenich's WWW page
under FAQ, the question about occasionally exceeding the 2600RPM restriction
was raised. Sensenich's statement is simple: You absolutely must not exceed
this limit. With this in mind, I calibrated my ISSPRO mechanical tachometer
with the aid of an electronic handheld tachometer. The mechanical tachometer
read low in all ranges, from 50 RPM low at idle to 150 RPM low at a static
RPM of 2250. Interpolating from this, I will redline my tachometer at 2400
RPM. I also hope to repeat that test in flight at cruise RPM, and will
repeat the calibration once a year to assure that there is no change. My
ISSPRO tachometer was purchased from VAN's option catalog.
Wolfgang.Weichert(at)NRC.CA
RV-6 C-FVMH completed, waiting for flight permit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
>what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
>anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
>I don't know what's coming up, aside from the videos, and I'm
>not real sure what components I want in my Big Tool Kit (2x
>gun? 3x gun? But the day is coming when I'll start-to-get-started
>and I'd hate to get to some point when things are moving along
>nicely and discover that I could be/should be doing things better,
>easier, or faster if only I'd bought the Cleco Pouch or the Jig
>Fixture Brackets or something.
>What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
>to Avery, in other words?
>Mark D Hiatt Aviation Forum Manager, The Microsoft Network.
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
Mark (I think this is from you & not Matt),
First of all, I'd spend another $ 240 and get the pneumatic squeezer.
Some other items that are great to have: a hand held belt sander. This is
much faster than files. I also use the belt sander to smooth the rough
shear edge before I use another item that is handy, the double edge
deburring tool. You'll need a flat, smooth piece of steel for back riveting
stiffners (back rivet plate). The jig fixture brackets are handy for
speeding the project along but at $ 21.00, it would be nice to borrow a set
from your fellow builders (see below). The right angle drill attachment for
$39.00 will come in handy. I also use my Scotch-Brite cutting and polishing
kit quite a bit. Buy the same diameter sandpaper discs for use with the same
mandrel. A cheap right angle air drill is handy for use with the above. I
use both the medium and fine 6" Scotch Brite deburring wheels, heavy work on
the medium--finish off with the fine. You'll need some Sharpie marking pens.
Some stuff you could save some money on: drill stops, wrap masking tape
around your bit, instead. Fan space rivet tool, the new kits are predrilled
and there is a cheaper way to accomplish the same thing, anyway. I see the
kit comes with a straight flush set. A lot of builder's are using the flush
swivel set and this does virtually eleminate smileys. I have and use both
but have been using the straight set more and more as I feel it's smaller
head transmits more force to the factory head and less to the surrounding
area. It seems like I get a better job of riveting done with the straight
set, maybe just my imagination. The swivel set is probably a good idea if
you're bucking and have someone who is less experienced driving. (I bought
the swivel so my wife (and me) would be less nervous)
If I'm directing this reply to Mark, if you'd drive to Lexington (and
bring, you know what) I'll give you some further pointers, we'll practice
riveting and I'll give you a RV-6 ride. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
Dan Boudro you wrote:
"Consistently using this list for commercial gain is dangerous to the list's
well being."
>> Elon
Please explain.
----------------------
Dan, what is your email address? I have made my point and surly worn out the
patience of many. Out of respect for all I will only reply privately.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
> Ed's comments are true but I would caution readers not to depend upon
> an alternator control switch as the primary means for controlling a
> runaway alternator. When a regulator goes south, voltages on the bus
> rise in MILLISECONDS . . . . Given proper ov protection, you'll never
> see an OverVoltage lamp turn on. The alternator should be AUTOMATICALLY
> shut down so the first light you'll see is the LowVoltage Warning lamp.
>
> This design and fabrication philosophy should put your worries so
> far removed from possibilities that ganging alt and battery together
> is an entirely appropriate thing to do. Pullable ALT FLD breaker
> is a useful maintenance tool for killing the alternator.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> *********************************
> * Go ahead, make my day . . . *
> * Show me where I'm wrong. *
> *********************************
>
> 72770.552(at)compuserve.com
> http://www.southwind.net/~nuckolls
**************************************************************************
So are you recommending a breaker on the field windings as over-voltage
protection or is there something I'm missing here? If so how does that work
since the breaker is a current limiting device? What value breaker do you
recommend?
Mike Wills
RV-4 starting wing construction
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg fairings/wheel pants |
Van has two styles of wheel fairings. One reputedly offers a speed
increase of 4 or 5 MPH over the other. It is closer to the ground and
more susceptible to damage. For that reason I chose the other. Tracy's
comment seems to suggest that they are the same.
Has anyone tried using strips of cowl baffle seal material to seal off
the gaps around the tires?
I thought that the Lamb tire was had smaller diameter. Won't this
cause ground clearance problems?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Re: Gear leg fairings/wheel pants
Date: 9/9/96 01:11 PM
There were two names and phone numbers that showed up on the list which may
need additional clarification.
Tracy Saylor (805) 933-8225 sells the fiberglass gear leg fairings like on
his RV-6.
This one is self evident.
Klaus Savier (805) 933-3299 sells the wheel pants that Tracy is using.
However, to use these wheel pants, you need to use Lamb tires and tubes. I
have not made this change myself, but I understand that a change to the axle
nut may be required.
There are two advantages to making this change to the tires, tubes, and wheel
pants.
1.) Tracy Saylor says that you add checking the tire pressure to the
list to be
accomplished during each annual inspection (60psi).
2.) Less Drag. Tracy observed a speed increase of 5 mph over either of
Van's
5x5 wheel pant installations.
If I can get this onto my RV-3, I'll let you know what I observe.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (Original 1/8" thick spar segments with
rear spar/center section modification)
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
I think limited advertising on this list is fine, so long as it meets two
criteria.
1] The item or service is of direct interest too, and specifically for RV
builders and pilots.
2] It is honest and free of scams.
If someone on this list has developed something that can help other builders
why not talk about it? And, if it costs money, so what? Everything costs
money. I don't expect someone to build a tool or a part for me for free.
Perhaps if that person was my neighbor, I'd invite them over for dinner as a
token of my appreciation for the time they spent on my part. But obviously,
if that person is 1000 miles away, that invitation might be inconvenient. So
instead, I send a few buck so he can get himself a meal in his own town. What
wrong with that? Money is not the root of evil. It is simply our medium of
exchange. We should not be embarrassed or be put on guard anytime its subject
comes up.
Andy Gold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
<< Before we are forced to make a choice we may regret would you experienced
RV
builders comment on sliding versa clamshell type canopy. My brother Bob is
the one that needs to make this choice and we have discussed pros and cons.
It seems that trader plane ads coming from prsopective purchasers of
pre-built RV-6 or 6A specifically desire sliding type.
Input please..... >>
Oooh boy, I bet this will be a veritable can o' worms! I considered posting
this privately, but I'm sure others are sitting on the fence as well, so
here's my .02:
Mine is a slider and I wouldn't even consider building a tip-up. My main
reason is cosmetic. I just LOVE the way the slider looks and the
silky-smooth operation of it. It's very fighter-pilot-esque, and oh so
jaunty (not to mention a nice breeze) to taxi with the slider back and your
arm on the side rail.
As for the cons, the instrument panel can only be accessed from underneath
once the top skin is riveted on. I believe it's also a little trickier to
build.
These are MY opinions. Lots of people like the tip up - I just like the
slider better.
Happy decision-making,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
The rivet fan spacer. I wouldn't get caught spacing rivets without
it. Every time I use it, I wonder how I did without it. Of course,
now that the tail and wing kits come pre-punched....
Mark LaBoyteaux
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
> >Yes, I personally think this one seems to be 'testing the envolope'
> >and has just about gone outside of it. I think very much of this
> >stuff will cause our archive to go exponential, to say nothing of our
> >own message boxes. Other opinions?
>
> My sentiments exactly. I really don't mind George and Becki
> Ornorff's occassional plugs on here, mind you. But this one's a bit
> too much of a 'crass commercial message' for my taste.
Well, hopefully he'll learn. I remember at one point George and Becki, around
the time they got on the list for the first time, seemed to answer everyone's
questions with (roughly paraphrased) "Buy our tapes, it shows you right
there." but now they are excellent list-citizens and we'd be much poorer
without them.
I think there are two times when an ad like the first (Although without the
Ronco-like sales pitch) is appropriate. First, when a product or service
first becomes available. And second when someone specifically asks for it.
Perhaps Matt should add an advertising etiquette section to the message sent
out to new listers.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
> The rivet fan spacer. I wouldn't get caught spacing rivets without
>it. Every time I use it, I wonder how I did without it. Of course,
>now that the tail and wing kits come pre-punched....
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
Mark, You never heard of the "poor man's rivet spacer"? It's free. Also,
as you said, the new kits are pre-driled. I'd apply the $ 36 ? to a
pneumatic squeezer.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9EF6.69D794A0
> Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
> what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
> anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
>...
> What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
> to Avery, in other words?
I'm not sure what's in the big kit, and don't have Avery's catalog here.
I started with the 'Starter Kit' and added a few things. I later placed =
a second order. My page http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm lists =
most of the tools I got on this second order. Here's some other fairly =
random thoughts:
I bought a rivet spacing fan and haven't used it yet. I got a =
full-swivel air regulator; this is well worth the extra price over the =
ordinary regulator.
Side-grip clecos are invaluable... I have 5 of each size which is barely =
enough. You'll need about 100 3/32" clecos to do the emp. I also got =
some "skin clamps" (I think that's what Avery call them) and haven't =
used them yet. One each of the 12" aircraft drills; #30 & #41.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9EF6.69D794A0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9EF6.69D794A0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net (Charles Coyne) |
| Subject: | Re: Nuckolls to Join KAB |
>Charlie please send me a copy of AEC. I'm starting on an RV-8 and need all
>the help i can get.
>
> Thanks
> John Bunn
>12462 Anchorage Way
>Fishers, In 46038
KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER Magazine
Attention On-Line Kit Aircraft Builders
Whether you're up to your ankles in sawdust and airplane parts, or still
dreaming about a sleek fiberglass speedster, you'll find lots of
informative articles in each issue of KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER Magazine.
Helpful hints for active builders will make the work easier and provide
lots of thought provoking ideas. Reviews of new kits will help the
first-timer, and the seasoned builder, choose the right kit to build. Each
issue has complete coverage of kits, plans, building tips, suppliers,
tools, how-to tech tips, equipment and techniques, events and much more.
Coverage includes all types of construction, aluminum, composite, wood,
tube-and-fabric, as well as the latest news regarding alternate engines for
kit aircraft.
As a subscriber, you may list your kit and homebuilt related classified ads
FREE in KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER.
A 12-issue Charter Subscription to KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER Magazine is only
$24.95. A 1-Year, 6 Issue Subscription is only $19.95.
Send check or money order to: KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER, Dept. OL, 1313 Paseo
Alamos, San Dimas, CA 91773.
Call Toll Free @1/800827-5070.
For a sample issue send only $3.95 to the above address.
Dear Mr. Bunn
A sample issue will be in the mail this week, no charge. I have your address as:
John Bunn
12462 Anchorage Way
Fishers, In 46038
Thanks for your interest in KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER Magazine.
Best Regards,
Chuck Coyne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | For sale - rivet spacer tool |
** Original question - what else should I buy? ***
> The rivet fan spacer. I wouldn't get caught spacing rivets without
>it. Every time I use it, I wonder how I did without it. Of course,
>now that the tail and wing kits come pre-punched....
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
Well, some builders swear by it, but I find it cumbersome to use,
and can scratch unprotected surfaces (I had an early kit withhout the
plastic protectors on the alum. sheets)
So, crass commercialism or not, I will sell mine for 50% of the
current Avery price (plus $3.50 shipping).
It's in good condition (it is stainless) and was made by the
original inventor of the tool - Kit Aircraft Tools, Lawndale, CA - now no
longer in business. It appears identical (can you say copied? ... :^) to
the current Avery model.
So, if you want one, save a few bucks, $19.50 plus $3.50 shipping.
*** First e-mail reply to "gil(at)rassp.hac.com" gets it. ***
Please do NOT reply to the rv-list!
.. thanks ... Gil (prefer a ruler for rivet spacing) Alexander
RV6A, #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
PS I hope this e-mail subject wording is OK ...:^)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9EF8.5A1627A0
>I think limited advertising on this list is fine, so long as it meets =
two
>criteria.
> 1] The item or service is of direct interest too, and specifically for =
RV builders and pilots.
>2] It is honest and free of scams.
I'd add
3] It is a one-off ad. Remember that anyone looking for their product =
can find it in the archive.
I'd exclude something like an engine junkyard advertising a different =
set of run-out Lycomings every week.
>If someone on this list has developed something that can help other =
builders
>why not talk about it? And, if it costs money, so what? Everything =
costs
>money. I don't expect someone to build a tool or a part for me for =
free.
The difficulty is that some people see the Internet, and the RV-list, as =
a way to advertise their wares *for* *free*. And since it costs them =
nothing, they're totally indiscriminate about where they send their =
spams. These people have no problem with filling our mailboxes and =
Matt's disk archives with their junkmail. And, *we* get to pay for it; =
some of us indirectly, but in NZ there's still many ISPs who charge by =
volume.
My 2c worth,
Frank.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Chris,
For your interest only: there are several largish chunks of North Western
Australia where your GPS is occasionally unable to see enough satellites to
give a 3D fix let alone enough satellites for RAIM (Not many VORs there
either of course)
Leo Davies
Sydney, Godzone
>Satellite coverage? Where on earth (to coin a phrase) whould this be a
problem?
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>> >I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
>> where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
>> back-up system.<
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
Of course, there are other options if you want to get inventive. I think
Gull-wing has been suggested (And dismissed), but perhaps a cantilevered
canopy could be done, like (I think) the Pulsar has. Depending on how it's
done, it could be easier to fit, remove, and jettison.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Wrecked Bonanza parts |
Guys --
A friend of a friend destroyed his Bonanza in a microburst incident 2 years
ago. (Neither occupant was killed.)
He has the option to purchase the wreckage from the insurance company at
what *sounds* like a pretty good price. He would do so in order to
salvage some of the avionics he wants for his replacement plane -- like the
StormScope -- and would sell everything else.
I would *think* this would be an opportunity for me (or other listers)
to pick up a whole ton of items, such as:
1. Lots of radios and such
2. Engine instruments
3. Heated pitot tube
4. The electrical system parts -- the bus, master switch, other
switches, etc.
5. Exterior lights -- strobes and such
6. Misc stuff like Hobbs meters, etc.
However, I don't know how likely this stuff is to survive this kind of
accident. It occurred during missed approach -- they bellied into the
ground, nose high, full engine power, and totally destroyed the aircraft.
The seats, occupants still attached, separated from the fuselage, for
instance.
I also don't know how I would be able to test if it worked, what the
damage to stuff is if it sits for 4 years (2 years since the crash and
another 2+ years until I'll be in the air), or what fair prices might
be.
Comments?
If he buys the wreck, should I do a followup post with the available
items?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Inflight breakup |
> I don't know whether this is true or not, but my instructor said
> something about how a few pilots had pulled the wings on his type of RV
> (it's either a 3 or a 4) prior to some structural modifications.
I didn't see any other responses to this, so I'll toss in what I know.
Approximately a year ago, an early RV-3 was destroyed in flight. The
plane in question was being flown in close proximity to Van in one of the
factory planes at the time, making the incident even more poignant.
>From bits and pieces I have heard, and some of this information might be
confusing multiple incidents or just plain wrong -- please don't jump all
over me for that -- here is some info.
1. Early RV-3s had a fairly low stick force per G factor. That is, as
you added Gs by pulling on the stick, there wasn't a lot of force
telling the pilot what he was doing. This increases the ease with
which one overstresses the airframe.
2. RV-3s (maybe only early RV-3s) have been shown to fail earlier than
structural analysis suggest they should. Van has identified this as
a problem and provided a fix free-of-charge to all registered RV-3
owners.
3. The pilot of the failed -3 was, if my info is correct:
a. NOT the builder and relatively new to the -3.
b. A medical examiner for the military, used to high-G maneuvers
riding in fancy military hardware. A 9-G turn wouldn't be
unusual to this sort of person.
To the best of my information, this is the only known RV- in-flight
breakup, and it was an early RV-3. The contributing problems in the
-3 do not appear in the -4, -6, -6A or -8.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg fairings/wheel pants |
> Van has two styles of wheel fairings. One reputedly offers a speed
> increase of 4 or 5 MPH over the other. It is closer to the ground and
> more susceptible to damage. For that reason I chose the other. Tracy's
> comment seems to suggest that they are the same.
[snip!]
> I thought that the Lamb tire was had smaller diameter. Won't this
> cause ground clearance problems?
They are in fact different. Vans are designed for the normal tires,
Saviers require the smaller "lamb" tire (RV-6A nosewheel tire). I do
like Savier's wheel pants, they LOOK fast. Saviers do appear to me to
be a fair bit thinner and lighter than Vans.
BUT... since I plan to USE my rv, i.e . fly it into grass, dirt &
gravel strips, I'll probably pass on the fancy wheel fairings and small
tires. (This might also have something to do with the fact that I
trashed Ken Scott's fancy wheelpants after the air pressure got a little
low and I bounced it kind of hard....)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Rudder Stiffeners |
John:
Don't rely on scaling dimensions from these drawings. Look at the
trailing edge detail on drawing 4PP and you'll find this dimension
specified as 3/16",I think.
George Kilishek
RV-8 #10006
Waiting for wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Where to put the electrical conduit in RV-6AQ |
I'm looking for advice/experience regarding where to locate conduit in my
RV-6A (quickbuild). I bought 50' of Van's conduit (light weight, ridged,
approx 7/8" OD) which I intend to use to house electrical lines running
thru the wings (I gave up on the small factory-installed grommets because
all the lines I need to run won't fit). It seems to me that the simplest
way to run the conduit is right down thru the lightning holes in the main
ribs (behind the spar). The largest lightening hole looks like a good
candidate -- it matches the hole already cut in the fuselage right behind
where the main spar will go. I need to make sure, however, that the
location I pick doesn't end up interfering with the aileron pushrod that
also runs thru the large lightning hole.
Is there a location (top, bottom, front, or rear) inside the large
lightning hole that would accomodate the conduit without interference
from the pushrod? Should I drop back to the second lightning hole behind
the spar, and open up a new hole to the fuselage?
Thanks for your ideas and experience.
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Fus. Jig In Vic. Oz |
Sorry to clutter the list but.........
Before I go out and buy a heap of timber, is there anyone in Victoria
Australia with a Fus. jig taking up space in the workshop?
I live in Ivanhoe - northern suburb of Melbourne, but can I could travel to
country Victoria.
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
I don't agree that this is a good idea. If we were building Murphy's and
some of us were doing biplanes and others were doing SuperRebels,
maybe. But there are enough similarities between the -3, -4 and -6 and
-8 that any good technique/tip/hint/idea may be applicable to at least
one other model and maybe all of them.
Mark
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 1996 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: "Also" Gripe.
It would be helpful if the TYPE of aircraft you're posting about is listed
at the top of your post, ie RV-6, RV-3 as I sometimes get halfway through a
post to find out I don't need to know things about a flip-up canopy because
the -4 doesn't have one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Bob.. I would be interested in your schematics as well. Can you reply to me with
snail mail address..
Rick Osgood
74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the electrical conduit in RV-6AQ |
Tim,
I would be very leery about putting anything "in" the first big lightning
hole in the main ribs. If anything came adrift in here it would be muddled
up with bell cranks, pushrods etc. I drilled a hole in the metal between the
top of the spar and the first lighting hole. This is a location I have seen
successfully used in completed aircraft. There has been some discussion
about alternate locations and the archives may be worth a look. A useful tip
(from the archives) is that a piece of dental floss with some rag tied on
the end can be blown down the tube easily with compressed air to provide a
pull through (and leave one in place).
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>I'm looking for advice/experience regarding where to locate conduit in my
>RV-6A (quickbuild). I bought 50' of Van's conduit (light weight, ridged,
>approx 7/8" OD) which I intend to use to house electrical lines running
>thru the wings (I gave up on the small factory-installed grommets because
>all the lines I need to run won't fit). It seems to me that the simplest
>way to run the conduit is right down thru the lightning holes in the main
>ribs (behind the spar). The largest lightening hole looks like a good
>candidate -- it matches the hole already cut in the fuselage right behind
>where the main spar will go. I need to make sure, however, that the
>location I pick doesn't end up interfering with the aileron pushrod that
>also runs thru the large lightning hole.
>
>Is there a location (top, bottom, front, or rear) inside the large
>lightning hole that would accomodate the conduit without interference
>from the pushrod? Should I drop back to the second lightning hole behind
>the spar, and open up a new hole to the fuselage?
>
>Thanks for your ideas and experience.
>
>Tim
>-------------------------------
>Capt Tim Lewis
>Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
>lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
>or capntim(at)aol.com
>COML ASEL IA
>RV-6AQ #60023
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary <70176.1660(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Jon Johanson @ EAA #1 on 12 Sept 96 |
I just got off the telephone with President Marty Eisenmann of
EAA Chapter #448. He was contacted by Jan Johnson President
of EAA Chapter # 1. Jan reported that Jon Johanson was going
to be at their airport on Thursday, 12 September 1996. EAA
Chapter # 1 is located in Southern California, U.S.A. at Flabob
Airport in Rubidoux. As I understand it, everyone is invited.
The phone number at EAA Chapter #1 clubhouse is: (909) 686-1318.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N-157GS S/N: 20480
Work: gasobek(at)ccgate.hac.com
Home: 70176.1660(at)COMPUSERVE.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacer tool |
<< It's in good condition (it is stainless) and was made by the
original inventor of the tool - Kit Aircraft Tools, Lawndale, CA - now no
longer in business. It appears identical (can you say copied? ... :^) to
the current Avery model.
>>
I believe Avery obtains the fan spacer from the original manufacturer, so it
is not a copy that Avery is selling.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
< I got a full-swivel air regulator; this is well worth the extra price over
the ordinary regulator.>
When buying your regulator, whether stand alone or in a swivel, make sure it
is the one that increase the air when twisted one way and decreases going
the other. There is one type of regulator that goes from off to full
pressure in 90 degrees of rotation and from 91 degrees to 180 degrees
decreases in pressure. These aren't worth a hoot. They don't have fine
enough adjustment and are easy to bump off where you last put it.
Bob Skinner(at)ltec.net RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NMARSHAL(at)auto.rockwell.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE:RV Builders Group |
Barry, glad to hear of another RV builder in France. Hope you find the list
as useful as I have. Are you anywhere near the Paris area? Please get in
touch.
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062) Elevators
nmarshal(at)auto.rockwell.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: RE:RV Builders Group
Date: 06/09/96 12:38
Hi I am at present building an RV6 in France. I would appreciate it if you
would give me information on how to participate in you forum etc. on the RV
aircraft.
Barry
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Do any of the wood F/P prop manufacturers have home pages.
chet razer: attaching tail to fuselage
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lamb Tires and Wheel Pants |
<< Van has two styles of wheel fairings. One reputedly offers a speed
increase of 4 or 5 MPH over the other. It is closer to the ground and
more susceptible to damage. For that reason I chose the other. Tracy's
comment seems to suggest that they are the same.
(stuff cut)
I thought that the Lamb tire was had smaller diameter. Won't this
cause ground clearance problems?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>>
Van has a single piece wheel pant, and a vertically split two piece wheel
pant. Tracy Saylor has tried both of these, and his comment was that he
didn't observe any significant difference in performance between them.
The Lamb tire is a smaller diameter tire, but it fits on the 5x5 cleveland
rim. The wheel pant that Klaus sells is one designed for the Long EZ and the
Lamb tire. The total assembly is smaller in overall height, and I believe
lighter. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that any LongEZ wheel pant
would work.
I don't have any numbers for ground clearance, but Tracy Saylor had his RV-6
at Van's fly-in on the grass strip.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
Apparently Van believes that enough warm air can be scavenged by the trap
door arrangement designed into the standard airbox. Is this true?
I'm inclined to want to plumb warmer air from the Vetterman carb heat muff to
the alternate air trap door to melt that ice lickety split, but how is this
to be done effectively. The muff has 2" dia output but the carb throat has
almost twice that area, seems that additional slots need to be cut in the
supply line so as to not starve the beast when on alternate air.
Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram air
scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
I would appreciate comments on this subject as the archives has little to say
except for Rusty's comments (Thx again).
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
N1GV (scoop on 6A cowling)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry WARD <ward(at)axime.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builders Group |
Hi I am at present building an RV6 in France. I would appreciate it if you
would give me information on how to participate in you forum etc. on the RV
aircraft.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & cable |
I'll bet the slop is caused by the 180 degree direction change in the
cable. Not easily fixed.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 seats, electric flaps etc.
> >Has anyone experienced slop in their pitch trim cable? Since new (150 hrs)
> >I've had a bit of play in the vernier, whereby the first 2-3 cranks on the
> >knob are ineffective, followed by "oops, too much" on the next turn.
> > Physically moving the trim tab, I get about a half inch of free play.
> >
> BestBillo; I've got the same. From asking others over the years, and
> somewhere in there a word from Vans, is that it's 'normal'. I don't like
> it, because as you say, the 'reversal' when trimming, but I haven't been
> able to figure out a cure for it. My trim tab has about 3/8 to 1/2 inch
> play in it, and as you move it, you can see the cable moving back and forth,
> that is why I feel that the slop is in the cable/vernier part. If I reverse
> my trim desire in flight, I just automatically rotate about a full turn and
> a half before it takes a bite on trim. If you come up with a cure, let us know.
> John D
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the electrical conduit in RV-6AQ |
Tim,
I put mine about 9 in from the main spar so not to get in the way of the
inspection hole ,on the bottom have done 2 that way and it seem to do fine.
You need the wiring close to the main spar that the area where lite and such
are going to be.
Kep in touch ....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram
air
scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
I'm not sure if the carb air hole can be considered as "alternate air".
My inspector wanted me to put something AFTER the filter. I didn't want
to put another cable into the cockpit so instead fabricated a hinged
door in the bottom of the air box in the centre of the filter and
spring loaded it in the closed position. The theory is that if the
filter gets totally clogged or a bird goes down the thingamy, then the
reduced pressure will pull open the flap and supply air to the carb.
Thats the theory, now whether or not it would work is another story. In
reality I've got the spring rather tight so it will probably never open.
Ken RV6A Flying
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | re: Rivet spacer tool |
I'm curoius. The rivet spacer I got from Avery has a pronounced bow in the
rivet pattern as you extend it. That is, if you expand it to 3' and mark
through the holes there is an arc of 1/8" in the marks. Of course the further
you extend it, the worse the error. Avery told me that's normal for rivet
spacers. Is it? tmetty(at)umich.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
to Avery, in other words? >>
In addition to Avery's kit, I think that the following are essential:
- One or two extra pair of cleco pliers (try to trade 'em for those worthless
rivet cutters)
- Extra #30 & #40 (short & 12" long). Can't have enough.
- Flat sided dimple dies (#40).
- Quick change air gun spring.
- Dimpling/rivet block set.
- Back riveting plate.
- Die Grinder or Dremill Tool (I like the Die Grinder).
- Unibits.
- "V" (side) de-buring and Circle de-buring tools.
- C clamps.
- Side Grip Clecos & pony clamps.
- Dial caliper.
- Lots of Sharpies.
- small hacksaw.
- bo-lube.
- Lots of different files, you'll use 'em all.
I built my RV without a bandsaw and I regret it. Get one. If you're real
good with a hand drill (if you're not now you will be) you don't really need
a drill press.
My rule about tools is this...
You can never have enough tools. Buy good tools because they will last
forever. Cheep tools will just piss you off.
Happy building
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< I just did a EAA tech couselor visit on a RV-6 east of here. He was
installing a Performance Props, prop and it was beautiful. It features
multiple laminates (est.-64 or so) similar to the Warnke and Props Inc.
prop. Deliveriy was as promised and the builder was impressed with Clark
Lydick, who I understand, used to work for Warnke. I liked the prop. The
price sheet on the PP prop shows a cost of $700 to $775 + $15.00 shipping.
Bob Skinner RV-6 >>
I have one of Clarks props as well. What surprised me most about the prop
was that it performed just as advertised. Delevery was not a problem. I have
a three blade and I must say that it looks great.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Meulemans Dirk <100554.1236(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator wiring/ Landing light |
you wrote:
<<
A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the
other.>>
<< You would always want the battery switch on if you had the alternator on,
but in the rare case that the alternator "runs away" and starts putting out
excessive current you can shut it down without shutting off the main buss.
That's why the "Cessna" master/alternator switch (the double red one) is
keyed so the master can be turned ON by itself, or the alternator OFF by
itself, but not the other way around.>>
----------
On page 1-11 of my dreaded old Reims/Cessna F172M manual it says:
"Normally, both sides of the master switch should be used simultaneously,
however, the BAT side of the switch could be turned ON separately to check
equipment while on the ground. (...)"
E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 10-Sep-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Sure,
AeroElectric Connection
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
Do you have our book?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.southwind.net/~nuckolls
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the electrical conduit in RV-6AQ |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Tim:
One of the problems with Van's tubing is that you have to have it in
place when you rivet on the last wing skin surface. If you've already
run the tubing down the wing, it may be in the way when you rivet on the
skins.
I used a piece of thin wall PVC tubing that could be slid into the wing after
the skins were riveted in place. I positioned it near the top
skin behind the main spar. Some people are putting this tube in front of
the spare so that they don't have to feed the wires throught the spar box
inside the fuselage.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>I'm looking for advice/experience regarding where to locate conduit in
>my
>RV-6A (quickbuild). I bought 50' of Van's conduit (light weight,
>ridged,
>approx 7/8" OD) which I intend to use to house electrical lines
>running
>thru the wings (I gave up on the small factory-installed grommets
>because
>all the lines I need to run won't fit). It seems to me that the
>simplest
>way to run the conduit is right down thru the lightning holes in the
>main
>ribs (behind the spar). The largest lightening hole looks like a good
>candidate -- it matches the hole already cut in the fuselage right
>behind
>where the main spar will go. I need to make sure, however, that the
>location I pick doesn't end up interfering with the aileron pushrod
>that
>also runs thru the large lightning hole.
>
>Is there a location (top, bottom, front, or rear) inside the large
>lightning hole that would accomodate the conduit without interference
>from the pushrod? Should I drop back to the second lightning hole
>behind
>the spar, and open up a new hole to the fuselage?
>
>Thanks for your ideas and experience.
>
>Tim
>-------------------------------
>Capt Tim Lewis
>Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
>lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
>or capntim(at)aol.com
>COML ASEL IA
>RV-6AQ #60023
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
>Apparently Van believes that enough warm air can be scavenged by the
trap
>door arrangement designed into the standard airbox. Is this true?
Absolutly not if you plan on flying IFR...... The regs say that you
need something like 20C rise in ambient for alternate air ( They don't say under
what conditions). I found that the lower cowl air was not
sufficent as alternate air in IFR conditions, so I put a muff around the
cross-over pipes just above the airbox. a short hose is used between this
muff and a new hose nipple on the airbox. Early tests still indicated
that the air wasn't hot enough, so I wrapped a door sping painted with
high temp paint around the pipes under the muff to increase the surface
area. A temp probe in the airbox now indicates the needed ambient rise
in temp. I've not seen any indication of icing since.
>
>I'm inclined to want to plumb warmer air from the Vetterman carb heat
muff to
>the alternate air trap door to melt that ice lickety split, but how is
this
>to be done effectively. The muff has 2" dia output but the carb throat
has
>almost twice that area, seems that additional slots need to be cut in
the
>supply line so as to not starve the beast when on alternate air.
>
>Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
>unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram
air
>scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
The air box is large enough to handle ingestions of this sort. The air
filter has a lot of area.
Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Rivet spacer tool |
Tom,
Yes the tool will give you a curve. Use it for rivet spacing only, not edge
distance.
Bruce Bell rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
If that little birdie can get in far enough to block the inlet and
carb heat flap, you have a problem. The same is true if you ice your
filter on a fuel injected engine where heat is not supplied to that
flap (alternate air).
I have a problem believing the icing bit. A local inspector did not,
so one local builder had to put another inlet door between the filter
and the servo inlet. This will take care of the birds too.
Not wanting to get caught at inspection, I put a door on the oval
plate that bolts to the servo (part of FAB). There will be a light
spring holding the door closed. Should the need arise, the pressure
differential between the cowl and the intake will open the door.
Setting that spring up so that the door is normally closed promises to
be fun.
The area of these alternate inlets may be less than the carb or servo
throat. I figure that if you are in a position to need these things, a
slightly starved engine will be enough to melt the ice or get you and
the unfortunate bird home. Once again it is nice to have an aircraft
that performs as well as the RV's do.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox
Date: 9/10/96 04:47 AM
Apparently Van believes that enough warm air can be scavenged by the trap
door arrangement designed into the standard airbox. Is this true?
I'm inclined to want to plumb warmer air from the Vetterman carb heat muff to
the alternate air trap door to melt that ice lickety split, but how is this
to be done effectively. The muff has 2" dia output but the carb throat has
almost twice that area, seems that additional slots need to be cut in the
supply line so as to not starve the beast when on alternate air.
Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram air
scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
I would appreciate comments on this subject as the archives has little to say
except for Rusty's comments (Thx again).
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
N1GV (scoop on 6A cowling)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | First hole (CHATTER)! |
I drilled the first hole on my kit last night, in the right place even !
Sure felt good after years of wanting to build an RV. Drill motor in one
hand, Orndorff video playing on the tube (Monday night football during
pauses)...life is good.
Sorry...had to get it out of my system. The list has been so dang touchy
lately I hope there's not a zillion flames for it.
Those contemplating spending the money for the Orndorff tapes, do it. Van's
instructions are...let's just say lacking in detail. Its great to see an
operation, pause the tape, look at F. Justice's excellent instructions & the
plans, and then perform the operation. Repeat for next step.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wrecked Bonanza parts |
>If he buys the wreck, should I do a followup post with the available
>items?
>
>-Joe
>
Yes, please.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the electrical conduit in RV-6AQ |
<< I'm looking for advice/experience regarding where to locate conduit in my
RV-6A (quickbuild). I bought 50' of Van's conduit (light weight, ridged,
approx 7/8" OD) which I intend to use to house electrical lines running
thru the wings (I gave up on the small factory-installed grommets because
all the lines I need to run won't fit). It seems to me that the simplest
way to run the conduit is right down thru the lightning holes in the main
ribs (behind the spar). The largest lightening hole looks like a good
candidate -- it matches the hole already cut in the fuselage right behind
where the main spar will go. I need to make sure, however, that the
location I pick doesn't end up interfering with the aileron pushrod that
also runs thru the large lightning hole.
>>
Drill out the snap bushings and re-drill the holes to 7/8" for the conduit.
DO NOT ALLOW THE CONDUIT TO FLOP AROUND IN ONE OF THE LIGHTNING HOLES. This
is a bad practice. Additionally, make a seperate access hole for the conduit
where it enters the fuselage.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: RV List (Everyone Should Read This!) |
>--------------
>Matt,
>
>I have gone through the full UNSSUBSCRIBE process, including getting an
>acknowledgement that MAJORDOM has raised this to the administrator to
>unssubscribe me.
>
>All this took place four days ago. I am still getting the perpetual flood
>of RV mail. Why do we have an automated MAJORDOM which does not unssubscribe
>the requestor??
>
>Can you make sure I am removed from the list, after 7 mails to get the
>MAJORDOM to acknowledge my request it becomes frustrating to continue to
>receive the flood.
>
>Thanks
>Mike Parkinson
>----------------
Hi Mike,
Well, the truth of the matter is that Majordomo (the list manager software)
basically just isn't all that great. It was free and it's a lot better than
just using a basic email alias, but it gives me gray hairs.
The problem you were having is that you were listed as follows in the
RV-List address list:
MIKE_PARKINSON(at)HP9061.desk.hp.com (Mike Parkinson)
Unless you unssubscribe with that exact string, majordomo doesn't have
a clue as to who you are. I notice that the address you are signed up
as bears little resemblence to the one you sent me mail from... ;-)
Your message to me about this has a From: line that reads:
MIKE_PARKINSON@HP-Australia-om1.om.hp.com
In the future, here's how you can more easially unsubscribe from a
majordomo run email list like the RV-List and Zenith-List.
Step 1: Send an email message to "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" and put
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message to "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com", this time putting
the following in the body of the message and no other text:
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Step 3: In a few hours, repeat Step 1 and verify that your address has
been successfully removed.
And it says somewhere in the Majordomo manual (way in the back I think...)
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a perfect world and neither is Majordomo... :-)
Step 4: "But I did Steps 1 through 3 and I'm still on the List - Get me
off!..." Well then, the best last resort before kicking a dent
in your new rudder is to just send me an email message directly
at "dralle(at)matronics.com" (not to the List) and I can remove your
address by hand. And that's just what I've done for you.
Best Regards,
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
PS - I've also added a paraphrased version of this message to the
RV and Zenith FAQ for future reference.
PPS - I have misspelled the words "ssubscribe" and "unssubscribe" in this
message on purpose. Majordomo scans messages looking for the actual
spellings of these words and doesn't resend them instead sending them
to the list manager - me! Always use the correct spelling in all lower
case when interfacing with "*-list-request(at)matronics.com".
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
I use the ambient air in the cowl for carb. heat. I have a CAT guage on my
-6 and only notice a 1 to 2 degree increase in CAT with this arangement. Not
enough. Before the winter hits I will run scat tube from the muff to the
airbox.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: Rivet spacer tool |
>I'm curoius. The rivet spacer I got from Avery has a pronounced bow in the
>rivet pattern as you extend it. That is, if you expand it to 3' and mark
>through the holes there is an arc of 1/8" in the marks. Of course the further
>you extend it, the worse the error. Avery told me that's normal for rivet
>spacers. Is it? tmetty(at)umich.edu
>
Yes, as already stated, you should be using it for hole spacing only, not
edge distance. The spacer is placed over your drawn rivet line to space the
rivets. Also, pull it longer than your spacing and compress it back to your
needed rivet spacing as it is more accurate if compressed to the measurement
than pulled out to the measurement. (Did that make sense??)
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV-4 232 SQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
>
>I'm inclined to want to plumb warmer air from the Vetterman carb heat muff to
>the alternate air trap door to melt that ice lickety split, but how is this
>to be done effectively. The muff has 2" dia output but the carb throat has
>almost twice that area, seems that additional slots need to be cut in the
>supply line so as to not starve the beast when on alternate air.
I mounted a 2 inch flair to the top of the box for a scat tube from the carb
heat muff and then carved out a little of the top of the box to augment the
flow of air. The total area matches the intake area. That way I am getting
engine room air (hot) AND carb heat muff air (hotter).
>Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
>unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram air
>scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
Now THAT would be a good shot!!!
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV-4 232SQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | converting to C/S prop |
I'm converting an IO-320 engine to use a C/S prop. In order to do
this, the large plug in the end of the crankshaft has to be removed,
and the smaller plug inside of the crankshaft has to be replaced
because it has been punctured in order to use a fixed pitch prop.
Question, what is the best way of removing the plugs? Does anyone
on the list have any experience on doing this? I've already purchased
the small plug that will go inside of the crankshaft, and I have a
copy of the Lycoming service manual for my engine. However, all it
says is to "remove plugs". It's not very specific about how to do
this. Also, it calls out a tool to use for seating the small plug. Is
there an alternate tool that I can manufacture to do this?
Thanks,
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working top fwd fuse skin
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
For those of you who have installed oil breather separator units, I have a Q.
Have you plumbed the return line (not the overboard vent which goes onto the
exhaust pipe) in accordance with Tony Bingelis' suggestion; that is pipe tap
the dipstick tube and install the hose fitting there? Or where else? A
local Lancair builder incorrectly plumbed the return line to the 3/8" FNPT
port or the lower accessory (governor) housing on his O-360 and blew the oil
from the case filling up the separator, so that can't be right.
Is tapping the current plastic dipstick tube (appears to be .187" wall thk)
acceptable (1/4" FNPT) or should I endeavor to get one of the older aluminum
tubes? I am open to other suggestions that work well.
Thx a bunch,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wrecked Bonanza parts |
If your friend is going to go through the wreckage to get what he wants there
will be nothing (good) left for you I'm sure.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward S. Daror" <edad(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV List subscription |
For reasons beyond my control I Would like to ask you to delete my name
temporarily from the List subscribers. I hope to be able to rejoin
at alater date. Thank you, Ed Daror . (E-mail edad(at)worldnet.att.net).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
I like to turn off my alternator once and awhile (field) just to see what
my battery is putting out (amps) and to see what voltage it will sustain
for a minute or so. IMHO a circuit breaker or fusable link is need in
the alternator output lead to protect the rest of your electronics from
the alternator in case of voltage regulation failure.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On 9 Sep 1996, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
> >the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the other.
>
>
> >>You would always want the battery switch on if you had the alternator
> >>on, but in the rare case that the alternator "runs away" and starts
> >>putting out excessive current you can shut it down without shutting
> >>off the main buss. That's why the "Cessna" master/alternator switch
> >> (the double red one) is keyed so the master can be turned ON by
> >>itself, or the alternator OFF by itself, but not the other way around.
>
> Ed's comments are true but I would caution readers not to depend upon
> an alternator control switch as the primary means for controlling a
> runaway alternator. When a regulator goes south, voltages on the bus
> rise in MILLISECONDS . . . . Given proper ov protection, you'll never
> see an OverVoltage lamp turn on. The alternator should be AUTOMATICALLY
> shut down so the first light you'll see is the LowVoltage Warning lamp.
>
> This design and fabrication philosophy should put your worries so
> far removed from possibilities that ganging alt and battery together
> is an entirely appropriate thing to do. Pullable ALT FLD breaker
> is a useful maintenance tool for killing the alternator.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> *********************************
> * Go ahead, make my day . . . *
> * Show me where I'm wrong. *
> *********************************
>
> 72770.552(at)compuserve.com
> http://www.southwind.net/~nuckolls
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley 408.433.7692) |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
Rob wrote:
> Subject: RV-List: First hole (CHATTER)!
>=20
> I drilled the first hole on my kit last night, in the right place even =
!
> Sure felt good after years of wanting to build an RV. Drill motor in =
one
> hand, Orndorff video playing on the tube (Monday night football during
> pauses)...life is good.
Kudos and WTG! Woo woo! Yay Rob! Congratulations on your hole - err
- your start!
> Sorry...had to get it out of my system. The list has been so dang =
touchy
> lately I hope there's not a zillion flames for it.
If you get flamed I will be very surprised - your start on the path of
the RV brings you into the very spiritual center of this list. This
list is not just about the transfer of knowledge, the sharing of
tricks, and the opportunity to tap the vast technical expertise of
other list participants; it is also about the transfer of
encouragement, the sharing of emotional support, and the opportunity
to tap our collective human character via these cold flickering
phosphor dots to help you and the rest of us keep making headway.
Well, that and the ads.
The human stories of determination and adversity, mistake and genius,
and finally success are the best of this list. The reason we all do
this is that we share a dual passion - to create, and to fly. The
technical details are the means to serve our passion, but getting up
there in something we built is always the goal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as much into the technicalities as the next
guy, but we're not building go-carts here - these are _airplanes_!
I have been lurking here for a while now, and one of the reasons I am
still here (and one of the MAJOR reasons that yesterday I put in my
first Avery's order preparatory to ordering my first RV-8 kit) is the
uniquely human character of this list. The folks here are people, and
they have no problem sharing with others who share their dual passion.
Contrast this with other venues with similar potential
(rec.av.homebuilt for example, where the primary pastime seems to be
shooting down ideas and the people who have them) and the uniquely
human character here becomes all the more evident.
And after all that if you DO get flamed - well, they (like me) are
just jealous.
<...snip re Orndorff Vids...>
> Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
Again, congratulations on your start.
Regards -
--
Mike Brogley
San Jose, CA, USA / Avery orderer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
>I drilled the first hole on my kit last night, in the right place even !
and then perform the operation. Repeat for next step.
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
So Rob, seeing as how it's a quick build, you're done, right? Bob Skinner :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
>Is tapping the current plastic dipstick tube (appears to be .187" wall thk)
>acceptable (1/4" FNPT) or should I endeavor to get one of the older aluminum
>tubes? I am open to other suggestions that work well.
>Gary VanRemortel vanremog(at)aol.com
Gary, I tapped into the dipstick tube and it has worked fine. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
>I'd exclude something like an engine junkyard advertising a different set of
>run-out Lycomings every week.
Perhaps, but if that same yard (or an individual) had a nice set of newer or
mid time Lycomings every week, I think we'd all be very appreciative.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | No Nuggets: Chaff & Chatter |
>>Also, how does one expect to actuate the alternate air door if some
>>unfortunate little birdie head or birdie butt got wedged into the ram air
>>scoop tunnel? Can you say "cough, gag"?
>Now THAT would be a good shot!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reply Seperator<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Just can't resist sharing a sea story.
Ya know how Cessena has the vent intakes on the leading edge next to the
windscreen? You guessed it. At a younger age I was prone to using aviation
to lure those of the fairer sex out on scocial engagements, I know I'm
probably the only one here that has thought of it. Well, on one occasion I
happened to lure a young lady that was excessively easy on the eyes. The
dashing aviator thing was going as planned, then just as I leveled out at
one thousand; splat. I looked over and her white sun dress is covered with
bird goo. She freaked, and demanded that I land. While tying down the plane
I found the aft section of an unlucky sparrow crammed in the vent hole.
As it was clear that aviation (and me) had ceassed to impress her, I just
told her "aw, that's nothing. Just be glad it was'nt a turkey buzzard, it
takes forever to clean up when you hit those."
Boy, can I digress from a string. You were warned.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | rv-list: throttle cable suppliers |
Can anyone recommend a source for mixture, prop and throttle cables. I plan
on using a friction lock for the throttle and vernier for the prop and
mixture. Please don't tell me Aircraft Spruce. I currently have all three
cables on order from them. I was quoted a one week lead at the time of
order. Now, a month later, they will not enter production for another week
and a half. I plan on canceling this order if I can find another supplier
(mainly on principle). I will never buy another product from ACS
Thanks in advance.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wrecked Bonanza parts |
> If your friend is going to go through the wreckage to get what he wants there
> will be nothing (good) left for you I'm sure.
>
> Gary Corde
Ah -- but that's if he's a builder. He's a Production Airplane kind of guy.
I can think of all *sorts* of things on that plane we builders could use
a lot more than he can. When was the last time a ProdAirplane needed a
replacement circuit breaker set? Spare COM and NAV Antennas? How many
hobbes meters do you need on one plane? His replacement Bonanza will
certainly come with all the standard flight instruments, a radio stack,
ELT, etc, etc.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
>
>>I'd exclude something like an engine junkyard advertising a different set of
>>run-out Lycomings every week.
>
>Perhaps, but if that same yard (or an individual) had a nice set of newer or
>mid time Lycomings every week, I think we'd all be very appreciative.
>
>Andy
>
>
Andy, your right. I have been thinking about each and every reply in this long
string. I did't have a particular opinion about advertising on the RV-list, but
I ,too, was annoyed at the advertisment that prompted so many replies. I
believe that most of us (including Elon O.) would never have had a problem
if we percieved the engine(s) being advertised as a reasonable offer.
But, when someone tries to sell an engine whose 1:reputation is
clouded(H2AD), deservedly or not, 2: Tell us it has a zillion hrs. but can
give us a zillion more, and 3: tell us all sales are final, the offer
becomes tainted.I have been on the list for 5-6 months and have not seen any
other adv. that evoked the response we saw last week. And, there have been
plenty of little ads and offers
and even a few very big ads (such as completed RVs for sale). In the end, we
really do want and need some form of advertising on the list. But, as you
and several others have suggested, the products must be desirable and
offered respectfully and in good faith......... Yes, Andy, your statement
says it all.
Lou Willig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <72714.2663(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator On/Off Switch |
Following the recent thread about alternators with interest and I have some
pre-conceived ideas about alternator switching, those of you with more knowledge
may be able to set me straight.
It has been my understanding that automotive alternators are inoperative
(switched off) when the ignition key is in the "start" position. I read
somewhere that this is to keep the little alternator from getting a hernia
trying to bring the system voltage back up to 14 plus when the engine is
cranking.
It is also my understanding that when the automobile engine is stopped and you
want to listen to the radio you use the accessory position of the ignition
switch. This position does not send power to the alternator field. Again, we
don't want the alternator field circuit telling the alternator "get busy and get
that voltage up".
The same scenario happens on shutdown, automobile key off, engine ignition and
alternator field power go off together - on our aircraft mixture is pulled out
and the engine stops, and until the master switch is turned off alternator field
circuit screams at the alternator to "get that damm voltage back up!"
Another reason for some form of alternator control, be it switch, circuit
breaker or whatever, is to reduce the electrical load in the event of a
alternator failure. One example - if the alternator drive belt failed you would
want to shut off that pesky screeming alternator field circuit because it would
be shouting "give me more juice and I will get that voltage back up for you".
Anyway it is my understanding that automotive alternators do not get as many
hernias as aircraft alternators and actually live longer.
In my case alternators may be obsolete by the time I get to my electrical
system, however if I do use a alternator I will plan a control switch and
automotive type fuses. My alternator will remain off until after engine start
and be shut down before the engine is stopped.
Now go ahead and make your day, I really need the info.
Thanks
George McNutt - HS
72714.2663(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: throttle cable suppliers |
>Can anyone recommend a source for mixture, prop and throttle cables. I plan
>on using a friction lock for the throttle and vernier for the prop and
>mixture. Please don't tell me Aircraft Spruce. I currently have all three
>cables on order from them. I was quoted a one week lead at the time of
>order. Now, a month later, they will not enter production for another week
>and a half. I plan on canceling this order if I can find another supplier
>(mainly on principle). I will never buy another product from ACS -Scott Gesele N506RV scottg(at)villagenet.com
Scott, You might try Wicks. Even though ACS makes the controls that Wicks
sells (unless something has changed) they may be able to get you what you
need depending on what kind of agreement Wicks has with ACS. Another source
you could try is: Cablecraft in Washington. The number I have for them is
206-475-1080 or fax 206-474-1623. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
Mike Brogley 408.433.7692 wrote:
>
> Rob wrote:
> > Subject: RV-List: First hole (CHATTER)!
> >
> > I drilled the first hole on my kit last night, in the right place even !
> > Sure felt good after years of wanting to build an RV. Drill motor in one
> > hand, Orndorff video playing on the tube (Monday night football during
> > pauses)...life is good.
>
> Kudos and WTG! Woo woo! Yay Rob! Congratulations on your hole - err
> - your start!
>
> > Sorry...had to get it out of my system. The list has been so dang touchy
> > lately I hope there's not a zillion flames for it.
Mike Brogley 408.433.7692 wrote:
> If you get flamed I will be very surprised - your start on the path of
> the RV brings you into the very spiritual center of this list. This
> list is not just about the transfer of knowledge, the sharing of
> tricks, and the opportunity to tap the vast technical expertise of
> other list participants; it is also about the transfer of
> encouragement, the sharing of emotional support, and the opportunity
> to tap our collective human character via these cold flickering
> phosphor dots to help you and the rest of us keep making headway.
****some stuff snipped****
> Mike Brogley
> San Jose, CA, USA / Avery orderer
Mike
Very well said and so true.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-)Hillsboro, OR
Now over 800 hrs. on airframe. With no major problems.
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: converting to C/S prop |
> Question, what is the best way of removing the plugs?
Mark, Tony Bengelis had an article about this in the Sports Av. a year or
two ago, with pictures. About getting his new engine and what all he had to
do to it. If you have the magazines, it may help you to look it up.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
>For those of you who have installed oil breather separator units, I have a Q.
>
Gary; I've a 320, and the line is into a fitting somewhere on the acc.
cover. Dammed if I can remember where right now. Will attempt to locate it
exactly tomorrow. Haven't had any blow back etc problems at all.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
Collect the few drops of oil that will result in a small metal can attached
to the firewall. I only get a teaspoon or so per 25 hours of operation. The
outlet air tube is completely dry with no oil vapor going overboard.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Not yet Bob... I am just getting to the point where I need to pay attention to
wiring.
What's the price of your book??
Rick Osgood
74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator ON/OFF switch |
It has been my understanding that automotive alternators are
inoperative (switched off) when the ignition key is in the
"start" position. I read somewhere that this is to keep the
little alternator from getting a hernia trying to bring the
system voltage back up to 14 plus when the engine is cranking.
It depends on how the ignition switch is wired along with
other considerations about the engine systems management
functions built into the computers under the hood. Actually,
at least from an airplane perspective, it matters not whether
the alternator is on or off curing cranking. The thing
only uses a couple of amps compared to hundreds of amps
by the starter. Further, it puts no unusual stresses on
the alternator . . .
It is also my understanding that when the automobile engine is
stopped and you want to listen to the radio you use the
accessory position of the ignition switch. This position
does not send power to the alternator field. Again, we don't
want the alternator field circuit telling the alternator "get
busy and get that voltage up".
It isn't just the alternator. Fuel pumps, ignition systems,
some cooling fans, etc can run in the IGN ON position that
are disabled in the ACC position. The consideration is
not one of taking care of the alternator but one of reducing
standing loads on the battery to a minimum.
The same scenario happens on shutdown, automobile key off,
engine ignition and alternator field power go off together -
on our aircraft mixture is pulled out and the engine stops,
and until the master switch is turned off alternator field
circuit screams at the alternator to "get that damm voltage back up!"
No big deal . . . the field current rises to it's max
value of about 2 amps. If allowed to stay in this
condition for too long (no cooling air) you can overheat
the field winding but we're talking about tens of minutes
before things get really hot.
Another reason for some form of alternator control, be it switch,
circuit breaker or whatever, is to reduce the electrical load
in the event of a alternator failure. One example - if the
alternator drive belt failed you would want to shut off that
pesky screeming alternator field circuit because it would be
shouting "give me more juice and I will get that voltage back
up for you".
Same, same . . . with broken belt (no cooling air) why
waste a limited resource (battery) on keeping an alternator
warm? In case of a passive failure of this type, you need
to reduce loads on battery to a minimum. In my designs
this included shuting off the battery contactor. That
critter draws about an amp all by itself . . . if we're
willing to shut down an alternator to save a 2 amp draw,
how can we tolerate the battery contactor with a 1
amp draw? Both loads represent wasted energy that once
dumped into the atmostphere as heat, cannot be tapped to
run a radio.
Anyway it is my understanding that automotive alternators do
not get as many hernias as aircraft alternators and actually
live longer.
First of all . . . there's no such thing as an "aircraft"
alternator . . . at least on the airplanes you and I can
afford to fly. Virtually all the alternators flying on
single engine airplanes are slightly (if at all) modified
version of an automotive design. The problem is that
"aircraft" alternators as we know them are based on designs
certified back in the 60's and 70's. One of my consulting
customers takes brand new Nipon-Dienso alternators and
opens them up to remove built in regulators, machine the
brush holders to allow direct grounding of one brush,
ballances the rotors to VERY tight specs and re-assembles
them with the other brush holder brought out for connection
to an adjustable regulator with ov protection.
In about 7 years of selling these products in a 40 and 60
amp version, fewer than a dozen of over 1000 have been returned
for repairs . . . due to owners washing the grease out of
the bearings while they were cleaning their engines! I've
gathered enough flight test information from flying these
products on experimental ships that getting STC's for
certified installations should be a no-strain task.
In my case alternators may be obsolete by the time I get
to my electrical system, however if I do use a alternator
What else would you use???
I will plan a control switch and automotive type fuses.
No problem >>> EXCEPT <<<< you want to avoid designing
a system where the alternator can be left on after the
battery is off . . . most alternator/regulator combinations
do no run well with a battery off line. This is why I
bring alternator and battery on and off together with
a single switch. Since I use crowbar ov protection,
I use ONE push-pull breaker as the TRIPPED device for
the crowbar ov module. This breaker can then become the
device for shutting down the alternator during maintenance
when you want the ACCessory position on your switches.
My alternator will remain off until after engine start
and be shut down before the engine is stopped.
It'sa no biga deal . . . Since I control with a single
switch, my alternators are ON during cranking . . . and
I don't care when the master is turned off . . . . you
can turn it on and off in flight . . . it shouldn't
be a consideration for sequence during shutdown. There's
a lot of ol' mechanic's tales wandering around out there
looking for good minds to polute. Every time I've
asked a proponent of any particular method to explain
why it's used, the answer invariably is, "that's what
I was taught to do." One never knows who taught the
teacher . . .
Now, go ahead and make your day . . . .
I think you read it wrong . . . to make my day you need to
show ME where I'm wrong. If I propose to be a source for
good information, I'd better be able to stand against the
wall and defend it. If it cannot be defended, it needs to
be removed from the playlist. . . .
I like to turn off my alternator once and awhile (field)
just to see what my battery is putting out (amps) and
to see what voltage it will sustain for a minute or so.
This kind of a test is pretty meaningless because it's
duration is so short. There are two battery considerations.
CAPACITY (ability to run minimum goodies for duration
of fuel on board - 4 hrs is ideal) and INTERNAL IMPEDANCE
(ability to crank engine). These two attributes were pretty
well linked to each other in the good ol' flooded battery
days but the newer RG batteries can be way down in
capacity and still crank an engine.
It's interesting that we overhaul engines when compression
gets too low, replace belts and tires when they are too worn but
we run a battery until it's dead, Dead, DEAD . . .
If you really want a battery to be your most reliable
source of energy, you need to CAPACITY check it. On a nice,
long, day-VFR flight, turn of battery master, close alternate
feed to essential bus and start you watch. Whe battery
voltage drops to 11.0 volts, see how long it ran carrying
just your essential loads (which, by-the-way, should be
less than 4 amps . . 3 is better). If it didn't run for
4 hours . . . then consider replacing the battery.
IMHO a circuit breaker or fusable link is need in the
alternator output lead to protect the rest of your electronics
from the alternator in case of voltage regulation failure.
No breaker or fuse can be depended upon to protect a system
from a runaway alternator. Alternators are by their physical
limits, unable to put out more current than they are rated for.
(Exceptions are when they're really cold where a 60 amp machine
might put out 65-70 amps until it warms up). So, let's assume
the regulator is blown and the alternator is full fielded.
It goes into immediate current limit at what ever it was
designed for which will be LESS THAN the trip value of any breaker
or fuse in it's output lead. Now, all your airplane NEEDS
is perhaps 10 amps out of the 60. Guess where the rest goes?
The battery will try very hard to suck it all in but eventually
it looses the battle and bus voltage climbs. If the battery
is soggy, runaway alternators can product voltages of 50-100
volts on the bus . . . and never trip the b-lead breaker.
This is why GOOD ov protection in the field circuit is
essential.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.southwind.net/~nuckolls
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: throttle cable suppliers |
>Can anyone recommend a source for mixture, prop and throttle cables. I plan
>on using a friction lock for the throttle and vernier for the prop and
>mixture. Please don't tell me Aircraft Spruce. I currently have all three
>cables on order from them. I was quoted a one week lead at the time of
>order. Now, a month later, they will not enter production for another week
>and a half. I plan on canceling this order if I can find another supplier
>(mainly on principle). I will never buy another product from ACS vent>
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>-Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
Couldn't resist this------ I ordered a throttle cable from ASS. It arrived
but was bent at a 45 degree where the flexible cable joins the rigid sheath
just forward from the knob. I called the ASS representative; of course, on
my own dime, can't use the 800 line except for orders. They told me to call
UPS and have them pick it up and return to ASS. I did that. I also asked
ASS to send me a new throttle cable to replace the damaged one.
After about a week I received a new undamaged cable.
To this day I have not received credit for the returned cable. I PAID for
two cables; one damaged cable that I returned and one that was ok. I have
talked to both the telephone people and to Irwin at the Arlington Airfair.
To this day ASS owes me $50 for the damaged cable.
This was only one of the problems that I had with ASS. I'd order 5 items
but instead of shipping them all at once they'd send them one at a time.
It's really irritating to be charged $5.00 shipping on a $4.00 item. I
ordered fuel gauges and senders (can't recall the brand). The gauges
arrived; no senders. I called them. They said the senders were
discontinued, no longer available. What good are gauges without senders???
At least they did take them back. Of course, I had to pay the UPS charges
to send them back.
Am I unhappy with ASS?? You bet your bippy I am. I'd pay twice as much
anywhere else rather than order from ASS. The only good thing they have is
the catalog. Shop locally whenever you can and if you have to order call
Wicks first. Even if it isn't in the catalog maybe they have it anyway.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: throttle cable suppliers |
<< Can anyone recommend a source for mixture, prop and throttle cables. I
plan
on using a friction lock for the throttle and vernier for the prop and
mixture. Please don't tell me Aircraft Spruce. I currently have all three
cables on order from them. I was quoted a one week lead at the time of
order. Now, a month later, they will not enter production for another week
and a half. >>
Ugh. I bought the exact setup from them and am very pleased with the
quality. However, I too have learned that anything that isn't in stock with
ACS, look elsewhere unless you absolutely have no other option. I ordered a
gascolator from them that had a 2 week lead time and showed up almost 3
months later.
You might try Chief or Wag-Aero.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
<< I use the ambient air in the cowl for carb. heat. I have a CAT guage on
my
-6 and only notice a 1 to 2 degree increase in CAT with this arangement. >>
These posts are rather timely. I'm finishing up my FAB installation and have
a question. In the "instructions" that come with the FAB, they state that
the top of the flange (of the metal top of the airbox) should line up with
the top of the fiberglass edge of the airbox. This creates a 3" vertical
opening at the inlet. It also makes the box too big to fit into the scoop.
Later on in the instructions it shows a diagram illustrating the opening of
the airbox being in line with, and the same size as, the inlet in the scoop.
Well, the inlet to the sccoop is less than 2" tall.
They can't both be accomplished. It seems to me that the opening of the
airbox should be the same size as the scoop inlet, right? The box opening
could be a *little* bigger than the scoop opening, but not much and still fit
in the scoop area with some clearance for engine movement. However I can't
see any reason to make the box opening bigger than the scoop, because the
scoop will then be restricing the airflow anyway.
Any help will be most appreciated.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
<< Those contemplating spending the money for the Orndorff tapes, do it.
Van's
instructions are...let's just say lacking in detail. >>
I sure wish you guys would quite picking on Van's instructions.
I thought it was bad having 20 pages of instructions for the RV-3, and
getting 22 pages of instructions to finish a wood propeller. Then I found
out the Bob Larsell, serial # 20 RV-3, only got 11 pages of instructions.
:-) ;-)
BTW, we all need as much help as we can find. I haven't gotten the Orndorf
tapes yet.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
>Is tapping the current plastic dipstick tube (appears to be .187" wall thk)
>acceptable (1/4" FNPT) or should I endeavor to get one of the older aluminum
>tubes? I am open to other suggestions that work well.
The Christen system returns to a "T" fitting screwed into one of the oil pan
fittings, usually where the oil drain plug is. I think the Vetterman exhaust
system would preclude this. You might get away with an "EL" instead of a "T",
or use the other plug location. I don't think the dipstick tube is strong
enough.
A catch can would also work.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
For a return line from the air/oil seperator I put a "T" fitting in the
drain tube from the # 3 cyl. head to the case....850 hrs.so far...works
great.
Jim Wendel RV4
N43RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
<< Is tapping the current plastic dipstick tube (appears to be .187" wall
thk)
acceptable (1/4" FNPT) or should I endeavor to get one of the older aluminum
tubes? I am open to other suggestions that work well.
>>
Gary, I tapped the plastic tube and put the brass fitting into it. Has
worked OK for 600 hours and 2 airplanes.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
>These posts are rather timely. I'm finishing up my FAB installation and
have
>a question. In the "instructions" that come with the FAB, they state that
>the top of the flange (of the metal top of the airbox) should line up with
>the top of the fiberglass edge of the airbox. This creates a 3" vertical
>opening at the inlet. It also makes the box too big to fit into the scoop.
>
>Later on in the instructions it shows a diagram illustrating the opening of
>the airbox being in line with, and the same size as, the inlet in the scoop.
> Well, the inlet to the sccoop is less than 2" tall.
>
>They can't both be accomplished. It seems to me that the opening of the
>airbox should be the same size as the scoop inlet, right? The box opening
>could be a *little* bigger than the scoop opening, but not much and still
fit
>in the scoop area with some clearance for engine movement. However I can't
>see any reason to make the box opening bigger than the scoop, because the
>scoop will then be restricing the airflow anyway.
>
>Any help will be most appreciated.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
It seems that when you get to this point (final assy), you're supposed to
intuitively know how to perform an assembly sequence (ie: throw the
instructions away). It seems you've discovered this, and knowing something
about airflow & how things should fit together, want the thing to fit and
work corectly.
Make it so .;-)
check six!
Mark
PS "check six!" doesn't always mean when flying, if you haven't figured that
out yet. It could be that the plans or instructions are out to get you! IMHO,
equally dangerous...
Or, it could be that Rob Lee is behind you..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Gary:
I plumbed my oil seperator return line back to the rocker arm oil
return line by inserting a "T" in the line. In the seperator line part
of the "T" I use a short piece of Alum tube flared on the end, and
connected back to the oil seperator with a rubber line. This allows for
engine movement relative to the fixed position of the oil seperator on
the firewall.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>For those of you who have installed oil breather separator units, I have
a Q.
>
>Have you plumbed the return line (not the overboard vent which goes onto
the
>exhaust pipe) in accordance with Tony Bingelis' suggestion; that is pipe
tap
>the dipstick tube and install the hose fitting there? Or where else? A
local Lancair builder incorrectly plumbed the return line to the 3/8"
FNPT
>port or the lower accessory (governor) housing on his O-360 and blew the
oil
>from the case filling up the separator, so that can't be right.
>
>Is tapping the current plastic dipstick tube (appears to be .187" wall
thk)
>acceptable (1/4" FNPT) or should I endeavor to get one of the older
aluminum
>tubes? I am open to other suggestions that work well.
>
>Thx a bunch,
>
>Gary VanRemortel
>vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Stiffeners |
>I know everyone must think this has been beaten to death by now, but I
>had an idea I thought I'd share. The instructions say that one could
>use Proseal instead of RTV to strengthen the surfaces if one had a
>builder close by with some to spare. I'm thinking that I will put
>Proseal between the stiffeners and the skin as well to strengthen this
>area. I understand it's quite a good adhesive, and this seems to be an
>application where the extra strength would help. If I can't scrounge
>some, I'll order it from Van's. By the way, on drawing 7PP on the
>RV-8, it looks like the clearance is about 5/16 between the stiffeners
>and the trailing edge at the closest point when you transfer the scale
>dimensions.
>
>Steve Johnson
>
>RV-8
>spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Given the .020 controls skin thickness of the -8, and the revised
instructions extending the stiffeners to very near the radius of the
trailing edge, I have opted to build my controls without the RTV. Van's
folks don't think its needed to prevent cracks. Also, on the elevators it
provides little dams to collect water between the stiffeners at the trailing
edge. In short, I believe that it's unnecessary and can actually encourage
corrosion.
Wings; maybe we should start a delivery-date betting pool to help pass the
time. :-) :-(
Ron
Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
>
><< I use the ambient air in the cowl for carb. heat. I have a CAT guage on
>my
> -6 and only notice a 1 to 2 degree increase in CAT with this arangement. >>
>
>These posts are rather timely. I'm finishing up my FAB installation and have
>a question. In the "instructions" that come with the FAB, they state that
>the top of the flange (of the metal top of the airbox) should line up with
>the top of the fiberglass edge of the airbox. This creates a 3" vertical
>opening at the inlet. It also makes the box too big to fit into the scoop.
>
>Later on in the instructions it shows a diagram illustrating the opening of
>the airbox being in line with, and the same size as, the inlet in the scoop.
> Well, the inlet to the sccoop is less than 2" tall.
>
>They can't both be accomplished. It seems to me that the opening of the
>airbox should be the same size as the scoop inlet, right? The box opening
>could be a *little* bigger than the scoop opening, but not much and still fit
>in the scoop area with some clearance for engine movement. However I can't
>see any reason to make the box opening bigger than the scoop, because the
>scoop will then be restricing the airflow anyway.
>
>Any help will be most appreciated.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
Ed
It is my understanding that Van intentionally designed the air inlet with an
increasing cross-sectional area. As the air enters the inlet, the diverging
walls will cause the velocity of the air to go down and the pressure up,
similar to why a NACA scoop works. This results in a high pressure area
around the carb, and an increase in power at altitude. You can almost call
this arrangement a poor man's turbo-charger.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
General question.
How do you wire up the sender that has its terminal positioned between the
rear tank baffel and the spar? (ie the 'invertable' tank) How is the
terminal insulated so near the spar?
Should there be a junction near the wing root before it enters the fus. or
just one long wire to the sender.
Thanks
Roycec Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: throttle cable suppliers |
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, John Ammeter wrote:
> To this day I have not received credit for the returned cable. I PAID for
> two cables; one damaged cable that I returned and one that was ok. I have
> talked to both the telephone people and to Irwin at the Arlington Airfair.
> To this day ASS owes me $50 for the damaged cable.
(snip)
> Am I unhappy with ASS?? You bet your bippy I am. I'd pay twice as much
> anywhere else rather than order from ASS. The only good thing they have is
> the catalog. Shop locally whenever you can and if you have to order call
> Wicks first. Even if it isn't in the catalog maybe they have it anyway.
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
My similar experiences with suppliers led me to adopt this policy:
Whenever possible I pay for goods with my AOPA mastercard. When the
product turns out to be defective and the supplier fails to credit my
account I simply send a letter to the mastercard bank telling them that
the product was defective (or returned, or whatever) and that I'm refusing
to pay. I've won every fight of this sort that has come up. The AOPA
mastercard agreement gives me 60 days to dispute a charge, and it doubles
the manufacturers warranty on most items. That's pretty good protection,
and it's free (assuming I pay the bill right away).
Yeah, it adds a couple of percent to the vendor's cost of doing business.
I've been burnt enough times that I don't care about a 2% hit to the
vendor. I'm interested in protecting myself from the sort of $50 rip off
that ACS inflicted on John.
The only exception I've recently made to my "credit card only" policy was
the pitot tube mounting bracket that I bought from Warren Gretz. I sent
him a check in the mail, and the pitot tube bracket showed up in about 1
week (pretty fast service IMHO).
Oh, by the way, I ordered a pitot tube from ACS two weeks ago. At the
time they told me it was in stock. Today they told me they'd have it in
a couple of weeks. Hmmm, where'd I put the phone number for Wicks....
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
>
>If you get flamed I will be very surprised - your start on the path of
>the RV brings you into the very spiritual center of this list. This
>
>Mike Brogley
>San Jose, CA, USA / Avery orderer
Mike, thanks for the reply. I feel like I can now skip church sunday
morning . Good luck on the -8.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
>
>So Rob, seeing as how it's a quick build, you're done, right? Bob Skinner :)
>
>
Yep, just putting the finishing touches on...should be flying in about 24
months or so .
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Muff to Airbox |
> These posts are rather timely. I'm finishing up my FAB installation and have
>a question. In the "instructions" that come with the FAB, they state that
>the top of the flange (of the metal top of the airbox) should line up with
>the top of the fiberglass edge of the airbox. This creates a 3" vertical
>opening at the inlet. It also makes the box too big to fit into the scoop.
> Later on in the instructions it shows a diagram illustrating the opening of
>the airbox being in line with, and the same size as, the inlet in the scoop.
>Well, the inlet to the sccoop is less than 2" tall.
> They can't both be accomplished. It seems to me that the opening of the
>airbox should be the same size as the scoop inlet, right? The box opening
>could be a *little* bigger than the scoop opening, but not much and still fit
>in the scoop area with some clearance for engine movement. However I can't
>see any reason to make the box opening bigger than the scoop, because the
>scoop will then be restricing the airflow anyway. Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, From the inlet of the scoop you'll be fiberglassing a tunnel to mate up
with the FAB airbox. The distance between the tunnel you make and the FAB
airbox should be around 1/4". The tunnel length will vary according to carb
location and the diameter of the tube may very well increase over this
length. BTW, I made my inlet on the cowl scoop a little larger than
received from Van's.
When doing the fiberglass work, I'd put some tape over the carb inlet so
you don't get FG dust up your carb.
One suggestion you might consider that will ease lower cowl installation
is to do the rubber seal on the FAB box a little differently. I put the
rubber seal on the top of the FAB airbox (horizontally). For the curved
portion, I attached the rubber seal to the "tunnel" that is part of the
cowl. When you put the lower cowl on, the FAB box nests into the rubber "U"
on the cowl. This beats the dickens out of trying to route flaps of rubber
through a 1/4" crack. Also, I made removable horizontal baffle seals to
help ease cowl installation and removal. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
>Chris,
>
>For your interest only: there are several largish chunks of North Western
>Australia where your GPS is occasionally unable to see enough satellites to
>give a 3D fix let alone enough satellites for RAIM (Not many VORs there
>either of course)
>
>Leo Davies
>Sydney, Godzone
>
>>Satellite coverage? Where on earth (to coin a phrase) whould this be a
>problem?
>>
Actually, I think it can happen anywhere. At least that's what my
CFI always said. I've never yet had a case where my Magellan didn't sync
up within a few minutes though I haven't used it that much.
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
>>I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
>where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
>back-up system.<
>
>What are you going to do when the VOR goes down or is notamed out?
>
>Jim Preston
>jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
I mean to use both systems simultaneously. I like having a
back-up. Especially one that runs on batteries as opposed to aircraft
power.
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
I'm finishing up my FAB installation and have a question. In the
"instructions" that come with the FAB, they state that the top of the
flange (of the metal top of the airbox) should line up with the top of the
fiberglass edge of the airbox. This creates a 3" verticalopening at the
inlet. It also makes the box too big to fit into the scoop.
Later on in the instructions it shows a diagram illustrating the opening of
the airbox being in line with, and the same size as, the inlet in the
scoop.
Well, the inlet to the sccoop is less than 2" tall.They can't both be
accomplished. It seems to me that the opening of the airbox should be the
same size as the scoop inlet, right? The box opening could be a *little*
bigger than the scoop opening, but not much and still fit in the scoop area
with some clearance for engine movement. However I can't see any reason to
make the box opening bigger than the scoop, because the scoop will then be
restricing the airflow anyway.
Any help will be most appreciated.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
=======================
Ed, The air box opening and scoop sizes are different. Your to fabricate a
diverging tunnel to mate the two shapes together. I think someone posted a
method recently refering to: glueing foam on the scoop and carving/sanding
the foam to match the air box. Then laying fiberglass cloth onto the foam
and blowing up a balloon into the opening to form a smooth finish with
minimal sanding. I guess a condom could be used in place of the balloon if
you feel you need protection....... :^)
ps. don't forget to wrap the airbox with baffle material to form a socket
to seal around the scoop ducting.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Wrecked Bonanza parts |
A friend of a friend destroyed his Bonanza in a microburst incident 2 years
ago. (Neither occupant was killed.)
He has the option to purchase the wreckage from the insurance company at
what *sounds* like a pretty good price. He would do so in order to salvage
some of the avionics he wants for his replacement plane.
I would *think* this would be an opportunity for me (or other listers)
to pick up a whole ton of items..........
Comments?
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
I would canabalize the aircraft and attempt to recover as many parts as
possible as you stated including: nuts/bolts, control yokes,
gauges/instruments, switches, breakers, wheels/brakes etc......
Yeah, some of this may not be usefull on an RV but you could sell it off to
recover your investment. Do you have any idea what a replacement control
yoke cost on a factory bird?? Can you say big bucks.... :-)
I would try to work out a deal with him, but it would have to be a really
good deal. Some of that stuff will probably not work, but at least you may
have a servicable core for trade-in purposes.
Maybe I just like collecting stuff like......
I sure hope the above comment will not cause a flurry of ADVERTISMENT
e-mail because I'm trying to save up for my wing kit.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
check six!
Mark
PS "check six!" doesn't always mean when flying, if you haven't figured
that
out yet. It could be that the plans or instructions are out to get you!
IMHO,
equally dangerous...
Or, it could be that Rob Lee is behind you..
=================================
After completing my RV6 PP HS this weekend, I had my building buddy Rob
Lee over to "check my six". Does this count? Rob reported good job on the
HS...... even though I didn't have to walk ten miles through six feet of
snow like the guys with the the early kits..... ;^).
I feels great to finally have a completed assembly. It didn't take very
long once I got started.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line |
I tapped mine to the oil dip stick tube per Bingelis. I located the hole on
one of the flat spots about 2/3rds of the way down. I was concerned with the
strength of the plastic type material, so I safety wired the fitting. It has
worked fine for nearly 350 hours. Be carful not to allow a droop in that
line, or clean the line out often. It will collect all kinds of ugly goop.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece by
piece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend of
mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp pistons
in.
He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the 160hp
engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some modification
needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp cylinders. This
involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more expensive) and
making some modifications to them.
Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an authoritative
resource?
John Allen
jallen6526(at)aol.com
Fitting brake pedals in RV-6A. Finish kit on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Regarding having a backup for GPS under IFR:
What's wrong with having two GPS recievers? That way you have YOUR
equipment backed up. Of course if the whole GPS sattelite network
decides to go down for some reason then you'd be SOL, but that seems
kind of unlikely. As for coverage -- if the FAA is really committed to
obsoleting VORS with GPS, then there will HAVE to be enough satellites,
or the whole system will break down. I imagine that before very many
VORs are decomissioned, they will make sure this issue is worked out.
I am not just thinking hypothetically here, I am trying to plan for an
IFR panel in my RV that won't be obsolete in 10 years, and it seems to
me an IFR GPS with a VFR handheld for backup will make a good, minimum
IFR panel.
This may mean I can't make precision approaches at places where they
still require a localizer/glide slope receiver, but I'm not really all
that anxious to get into situations requiring hard IFR to minimums in my
RV anyhow.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
>Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
>what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
>anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
Just order one of everything in the catalog and you'll be fine :-)
Here's my $.02 worth:
WHen you rivet the elevator and rudder skins, You'll need to have
something like the Back Rivet Plate.
I've found the 1/8-inch diameter 3/32 female dimple die to be priceless
when I drilled a hole in a rib too close to the web to get the full-size
dimple die in there.
When dimpling the elevator and rudder ribs down at the trailing edge, a
3/32 vide grip dimpler comes in awfully handy. I've used the pop-rivet
dimpler, but it is a lot harder.
I've used the 3/32 pop-rivet dimpler more times than I can count.
Number 3 Unibit.
Get the 12-inch center-finding rule and save yourself a lot of mental
arithmatic.
AN Bolt guage
A pair of aluminum ships or shears that do not leave a serracted edge. I
use the Andy, but I prefer the Robin, which Avery does not sell.
A box of scotchbrite pads
The "Scotchbrite cutting and polishing wheel kit" is GREAT for deburring
lightning holes.
Vixen file.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Importane Lycoming Service Bulletin: Fuel Pumps |
As I recall, someone posted some information a few weeks ago about failing
Lycoming fuel pumps. Mandatory Service Bulletin 525 on this issue arrived
today, and I though I should spread the word.
I'll not reproduce the entire SB here, but instead try to summarize it:
SUBJECT: Inspection of High Pressue Fuel Pump P/N LW-15473
MODELS AFFECTED:
(1) New, remanufactured and overhauled fuel injected engines from Textron
Lycoming with P/N LW-15473 fuel pumps shipped between 7/18/95 and 8/14/96,
inclusive. Models included are (L)IO-320, 360, 540; AEIO-320, 360,540;
HIO-360 and O-540-L.
(2) Diaphram fuel pumps P/N LW-15473 purchased between 7/18/95 and 8/14/96
inclusive.
TIME OF COMPLIANCE: Before further flight of the aircraft.
Textron Lycoming has determined that a number of high pressure fuel pumps,
P/N LW-15473, manufactures between June and October of 1995 may have
manufacturing defects that may result in engine stoppage. Several
instances have occured where the retaining washer gasket has become
separated from the pull rod assembly and lodged in the pump outlet valve
restricting fuel flow.
If your Textron Lycoming engine has a P/N LW-15473 high pressure fuel pump
installed, with identification/date code scribed on the pump as 154739506,
154739507, or 154739510, it must be inspected, as follows, before further
flight of your aircraft.
======
I'l stop here, but that gives you enough to figure out if this SB applies
to you. This SB WILL NOT apply to most folks here on the rv-list because
it applies to the fuel-injected engines only.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (CHATTER)! |
You wrote:
>I have been lurking here for a while now, and one of the reasons I am
>still here (and one of the MAJOR reasons that yesterday I put in my
>first Avery's order preparatory to ordering my first RV-8 kit) is the
>uniquely human character of this list. The folks here are people, and
>they have no problem sharing with others who share their dual passion.
>Contrast this with other venues with similar potential
>(rec.av.homebuilt for example, where the primary pastime seems to be
>shooting down ideas and the people who have them) and the uniquely
>human character here becomes all the more evident.
>
>And after all that if you DO get flamed - well, they (like me) are
>just jealous.
>
><...snip re Orndorff Vids...>
>> Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>> Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>
>Again, congratulations on your start.
>
>Regards -
>--
>Mike Brogley
>San Jose, CA, USA / Avery orderer
>
Hello, Mike, and welcome to the club. Very well said. I was up this
morning at 5:00 and managed to fabricate a couple of rudder stiffeners,
but I'm taking tonight off except for cleaning up the shop and reading
plans - taking the very good advice of one of the list members who said
never to work when tired. This project has really got me going.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #800121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
My trusty Lycoming parts catalog states both the low compression E2A and the
high compression D2A (actually all the B and D series) use the LW-12416
nitrided cylinder and head assembly.
Sounds ok to me to simply replace the pistons.
Your E2D uses a LW-12417 plain cylinder; maybe the plain cylinder was
tapered but somehow I doubt it.
JA
>I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece by
>piece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend of
>mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp pistons
>in.
>
>He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the 160hp
>engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some modification
>needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp cylinders. This
>involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more expensive) and
>making some modifications to them.
>
>Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an authoritative
>resource?
>
>John Allen
>jallen6526(at)aol.com
>
>Fitting brake pedals in RV-6A. Finish kit on order.
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
>I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece by
>piece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend of
>mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp pistons
>in.
>He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the 160hp
>engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some modification
>needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp cylinders. This
>involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more expensive) and
>making some modifications to them.
>Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an authoritative
>resource?
>John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com
John, You might want to check another source like Lycoming or a larger,
reputable overhaul shop. My information is that this is a matter of
changing pistons. When we overhauled my 150 hp O-320E2A, the cylinders did
have choke in them. Unfortunately, I went back with the 150 hp pistons. I
was thinking of using car gas at the time, which I later elected not to do.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Just FYI...I found out about the list via either Van's home page or one
that's hot-linked to Van's home page. I've really enjoyed monitoring the
dialog and gleaning little gems of info from the members; I hope to take
the plunge myself one of these days soon.
Bill Mills
RV-4 or RV-8 Builder Wannabe Someday
Current A36 Bonanza Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Pfeiffer <donp(at)scruznet.com> |
| Subject: | FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
When attaching stainless steel tape to Flap leading edge should the flap
be painted with primer first or is it ok to attach to unpainted surface?
Also is is best to leave top surface unpainted or has anyone painted it
along with rest of aircraft?
Don Pfeiffer RV6
donp(at)scruznet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & cable |
Any free play at all in a trim tab sounds like a recipe for flutter/disaster.
I'd sure check with the factory about this before my next flight!
BillBoyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA0B8.15483160
A box of scotchbrite pads
Don't buy scotchbrite pads from tool or paint suppliers.
You can use the regular green dishwashing ones from your local =
supermarket... heaps cheaper.
I originally bought one each of the red and grey (coarse and fine) pads, =
but have only occasionally used the coarse one, and never used the fine =
one.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA0B8.15483160
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AABAAAcwQBTwCFCguwFAAAgwQBTwCFCguwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAIrT
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA0B8.15483160--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Crotch Strap Retro-Fit |
A few weeks ago I unwittingly passed on some bogus info to the list from
AM-Safe on the issue of adding the crotch strap to the standard Van's issue
503086-405-2855 harness. Don Grego @ AM-Safe had thought that they had a
buckle tongue that was approximately .250" longer than the standard in order
to accommodate the additional thickness of the crotch strap bracket.
This turns out to be incorrect and Don has confirmed that AM-Safe has no
buckle tongue with the friction bar adjuster that can accommodate the
combined thickness of the shoulder belt and crotch strap brackets. The
longer tongues which are available from AM-Safe do not have the friction bar
adjuster feature and require that the adjustment feature be designed into the
strap (not at the tongue). This feature is designed into the 4000# rated
5-point systems they sell.
For the 1500# rated system that Van's sells, the only option for those of us
adding crotch straps is to modify the existing tongue. This is easily
accomplished and will reduce the strength of the tongue by approximately 25%
(from its rated 4000#).
The following procedure will guide you step-by-step:
1. Remove the tongue side strap from the aircraft.
2. Using a .058" dia drill blank or pin gauge in an arbor press gently drive
the spring pin from the friction adjuster (that knurled bar in the tongue
that the strap snakes around). Just drive the pin far enough that you can
get it beyond the edge of the tongue.
3. Remove the bar, the strap, the clip and the leaf spring (noting their
proper orientations.
4. Clamp the tongue (marked 500535) in a padded vice with the small (mating)
end up.
5. Using a .250" dia round file, reduce the shoulder from the stock 1.325"
dimension to 1.175" (2 places). Maintain the original tongue width (no more)
all the way to the new shoulders, then dress the shoulder areas flat and
round the new corners to match the existing radii.
6. Grind the open ends of the stainless steel clip (marked 500535-401) from
the stock .425" dimension to .350". Round new corners to approximately their
original radii.
7. Complete the assembly in reverse order of disassembly and drive the spring
pin home using an arbor press or channel lock pliers. Done!
You are on your own to engineer the crotch strap anchor point in the seat
area but it needs to be in the rear of the stick cutout area. It really
doesn't have to be that strong as the crotch strap merely reduces the
tendency toward performing the humanoid harness limbo and helps keep the lap
belt low and comfortable on the hips
When donning your new five point harness, install the crotch strap bracket on
the tongue first then the shoulder strap brackets, then buckle. The twisted
geometry of the crotch strap bracket will nest better against the relieved
tongue shoulder than against the shoulder strap bracket.
Any other Qs, E-mail direct.
Bye kids,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text
<"ZIP+960911230153:960911230153:1F*/c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=boeing/o=OV/s=Toupal/g=Daniel/i=W/"@MHS>
| From: | "Daniel W. Toupal" <daniel.w.toupal(at)boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I lift an RV6A with engine for wing and landi |
Hello All....
Just my $.02 on this subject - maybe it'll help someone...
The fuselage will probably be on the gear using the wooden "dummy
spar" for a long time while you are getting the fiddley stuff done, -
fairings etc ..etc...and also while you move to the airport for wing
attachment & final assembly. - O.K. - This is what Greg Bordelon and I
did on mine.....
The actual move was "painless" actually... after toying with the Idea
of using extended trailers or similar, we opted to call the local
wrecker company to do the deed. They arrived with the specified big
"flatbed" type of truck,.. you know.., the ones' where the bed slides
off the back, then winches back on. He charged 75.00 for the move
(about 8 miles and 45 minutes T.T.) and it was worth every dime.
Amazingly enough, he said that it was not his first plane move!! The
wings travelled along with us - in their cradle in the bed of a pickup
truck.
As for the big day when it is time to put the wings on - not too tough
really. We used a couple of 2x8 planks about 8 ft long, resting on 4
saw horses. The saw horses should be about the same height or just a
little taller than the bottom of the fuse. Position the first horse
next to and parallel to the fuse and put one end of the plank on it.
The plank is now placed under the firewall bulkhead, and covered with
blankets/ pillows to cushion your vulnerable bottom (oops). Remember,
it is 8" wide so the load is well distributed also. Take a deep
breath, Cinch up your Jockstrap, and lift the other end of the plank -
and up comes your bird - WOW! - wheels up for the first but not last
time - and slip another horse under the second end. The plank will
bend a bit - but don't be alarmed! Repeat using another plank and 2
horses at the tail to get level flight condition (longeron horizontal
at the cabin rail) so that you can align the incidence angle
accurately - as per the manual.
FYI - We found that final wing attach - installing all those the spar
bolts to be a real bitch...( unless of course you are deformed -
double jointed and with strong 5' arms, with 2 elbows per arm would be
about right I think).
Well, mainly Due to excessive beer sampling duties in a previous
existance - my own large, 2X, manly frame simply would not bend to the
alkward angles needed to lovingly, gently, and tenderly beat the
requisite amount of **** out of those bolts. So I somehow got Greg to
do it -- (Thanks again Greg!!). Took about 3 Days and a lot of messing
about with the legs to get final bolt alignment, and many bad words.
(mostly directed at me by Greg).
Anyways up, I went on for longer than I wanted to - but what the hell.
The above worked well for us - and even with the bird painted we
didn't mess up the cosmetics one bit.
Regards,
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
RV6A - N517RL - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
>
> >I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece by
> >piece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend of
> >mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp pistons
> >in.
> >He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the 160hp
> >engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some modification
> >needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp cylinders. This
> >involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more expensive) and
> >making some modifications to them.
> >Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an authoritative
> >resource?
> >John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com
My hanger partner just had his IO-320 B1A (160hp)overhauled on his RV-6
at one of the overhaul shops in the Portland, OR area and they
told him that the 150 hp did not have a choke but that the 160
hp did have a choke in the barrels, he had an engine he got
from a not so reputable overhaul shop and it had one cylinder
that did not have the choke bore, his engine was supposed to have
been overhauled but it lasted only about 500 hrs before he
had a cylinder that was badly scored and fouling a plug
every couple hrs. Jim is not on the list but I will try to
get him to post the details.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
>
> >I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece by
> >piece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend of
> >mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp pistons
> >in.
> >He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the 160hp
> >engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some modification
> >needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp cylinders. This
> >involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more expensive) and
> >making some modifications to them.
> >Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an authoritative
> >resource?
> >John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com
My hanger partner just had his IO-320 B1A (160hp)overhauled on his RV-6
at one of the overhaul shops in the Portland, OR area and they
told him that the 150 hp did not have a choke but that the 160
hp did have a choke in the barrels, he had an engine he got
from a not so reputable overhaul shop and it had one cylinder
that did not have the choke bore, his engine was supposed to have
been overhauled but it lasted only about 500 hrs before he
had a cylinder that was badly scored and fouling a plug
every couple hrs. Jim is not on the list but I will try to
get him to post the details.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
back-up system.
======================================
The system is composed of 24 satellites and 3 spares. In concept they will
bring down the old sats and launch new ones as future technology improves.
The orbits are inclined in 6 planes around the earth. In the air my GPS
almost always locks onto 6 satellites and only rarely has it been 5. The
Russian GLONOSS system is said to be more precise because they do not have
SA(selective availability). SA is the US military requirement to degrade the
signal (i.e., positional accuracy). However, the military has announced
they will turn off SA by 2010. With WAAS (mentioned earlier on this list)
and Deferential GPS, the use of SA becomes irrelevant for general and
commercial aviation. Each satellite has its own atomic clock and each clock
is updated every day. There is already redundancy built into the system. I
don't know the odds but I feel much more secure that a satellite will be
waiting for me 200 miles down the road than when I am tuning in the next VOR
and listening for that dit dit da.
In the future you will most likely see a system that integrates both the
Russian and US systems. Aschroft now sells a expensive GPS that will lock
onto BOTH systems. How do you say "back-up" in Russian?
Ground based nav-aids are old technology, frequently broken, and expensive
to maintain. Just think - there are more than 400 VORs in the US alone and
now 24 satellites are giving you world wide coverage. I was surprised to
hear that a part of Australia lacks occasional coverage. I would like to
learn more about that.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
(snip)... He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas
the 160hp engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end)
John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com
----------------------------------->
(snip)...When we overhauled my 150 hp O-320E2A, the cylinders did have choke
in them. Unfortunately, I went back with the 150 hp pistons. I was
thinking of using car gas at the time, which I later elected not to do.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
=====================================
What is this "choked" bore. Is it tapered or counterbored at the top? Do
the rings ride on the "choked" part? How do you bore it (with a
conventional boring bar) if it is tapered?
Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> |
| Subject: | where did everbody go? |
I've not received any list mail for days. Are things "fubar"
or am I doing something wrong?
TOM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Oil Separator Return Line/Ugly Goop |
Why would you want to return that ugly goop to the crankcase?
Some builders have been collecting the oil return in a f-wall mounted
container and periodically draining it. This will keep the stuff off
the belly of the plane. The cowls come off at oil changes. Does
anybody have a feel for what volume is required (25 hour intervals).
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator Return Line
Date: 9/11/96 05:08 PM
I tapped mine to the oil dip stick tube per Bingelis. I located the hole on
one of the flat spots about 2/3rds of the way down. I was concerned with the
strength of the plastic type material, so I safety wired the fitting. It has
worked fine for nearly 350 hours. Be carful not to allow a droop in that
line, or clean the line out often. It will collect all kinds of ugly goop.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
Don ,
youmay find that the tape will stick better on bare metal . Some glues do not
work well with paint and will come loose quickly....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
>I have an 0320-E2D engine which I am rebuilding (or having rebuilt piece
bypiece) I would like to put the 160hp pistons in it. A mechanic friend
of>mine suggested that this was more complex than just putting the 160hp
pistons>in.>
>He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas the
160hp>engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end) Therefore some
modification>needed to be made in order to use the 160hp pistons in 150hp
cylinders. This>involved purchasing the oversize rings ( significantly more
expensive) and>making some modifications to them.>
>Can anyone confirm this for me and perhaps point me toward an
authoritative>resource?
>
>John Allen
>jallen6526(at)aol.com
>
>Fitting brake pedals in RV-6A. Finish kit on order.
John; First off, I'm not an authority, but I will tell you of my experience
when I and an experienced guy were rebuilding my engine (320 E2D). I had
already had my cly. checked etc, the guy asked do you want to make this a
160 hp? I asked what it entailed and he said different pistons and wrist
pins (piston pins). I asked if the wrist pins were different wouldn't that
mean different connecting rods, he said no, the connecting rods were thicker
walled but the same diameter. There was nothing about redoing the cly, just
ordering different pistons, and since we had not yet ordered the pistons, he
said the price would be the same. Since I'm an old hand at rebuilding cars
to 'original'. I elected to keep my engine 'original'
Hope this helps some.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
Don,
I Painted my flaps first, then installed the tape, no problems in 400 hrs. Be
very careful installing the tape it is as sharp as a razor blade, and once it
touches the surface of the flap it's stuck. If you try and peel it off you
ruin it. Get some help with this.
Bill Mahoney
RV-6
N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
>When attaching stainless steel tape to Flap leading edge should the flap
>be painted with primer first or is it ok to attach to unpainted surface?
>Also is is best to leave top surface unpainted or has anyone painted it
>along with rest of aircraft?
I read a post a while back, I think it was from Bob Skinner, about 3" X .020
UHMW tape, instead of the stainless. It lets the color show thru. I tried it,
and it's holding up just fine. Looks a bit less flashy that the stainless....
Otherwise, prime & paint under the stainless, IMHO.
check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schroeder, John" <SCHROEJ(at)corpdc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | UNISON's LASAR Microprocessor-controled Engine Control System |
Today's edition of Aerospace Propulsion had a blurb about the new magneto
available for the O-360, and soon-to-be-available mags for other piston
powered general aviation aircraft. Stoddard Hamilton is also plugging it
now. Sounds quite good, but their name for it might run into trademark
problems. There several products/services with that name already on the
market. Search for LASAR on the net to see what I mean.
However, does anyone know how to contact UNISON for literature. Does anyone
have any data on the product? Does anyone have comparisions with Klaus
Savier's product line? Post the info on the list or send me an e-mail.
Many thanks,
John Schroeder
Recent Subscriber & prospective builder
schroej(at)corpdc.utc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
>
>When attaching stainless steel tape to Flap leading edge should the flap
>be painted with primer first or is it ok to attach to unpainted surface?
>Also is is best to leave top surface unpainted or has anyone painted it
>along with rest of aircraft?
>
>Don Pfeiffer RV6
>donp(at)scruznet.com
>
>
>
Put the tape on an unpainted flap. The RV's that I have seen had the top
surface of the tape unpainted. The movement of the flap would surely wear
ugly lines into a painted surface in a short time. Hey, it's stainless
tape, I wouldn't worry about corrosion.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Back Riveting -Wing Skins |
I'm ready to begin riveting my leading edge wing skins. I've heard that back
riveting is a good option. It would seem that you can't back rivet if you put
the leading edge skin in the jig cradle for riveting. I would assume that you
leave the skin attached to the ribs on the main spar when back riveting. Is
this so? Do you usually back rivet the top leading edge skin and remove the
skin and put in the jig cradle to finish riveting the bottom of the leading edge
skin with a bucking bar. My thinking of this process may be a mess. Would
appreciate someone straighting me out.
Best regards
Ron Caldwell - RV6A
(N655RV - Reserved)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: O320D2J 160hp->175 hp & C/S ? |
While we are talking about engine upgrades/piston changes, I was wondering
if anyone has experience/knowledge in converting a Lyc. O320D2J from the
160 hp version to the 175 hp version ? I am trying to avoid having have
to purchase and install a O360/IO360 and the down time associating with
such change.
In addition, does anyone know if one can put a constant speed prop on the
O320D2J with a hollow crankshaft ?
Any pointer or referral to reputable shops/persons would be greatly
appreciated !
Kind regards,
Ming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 150hp to 160hp upgrade |
>(snip)... He stated that the Lyc. 150 engines used a straight bore, whereas
>the 160hp engines used a choked bore (bigger at one end)
>John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com
>----------------------------------->
>(snip)...When we overhauled my 150 hp O-320E2A, the cylinders did have choke
>in them. Unfortunately, I went back with the 150 hp pistons. I was
>thinking of using car gas at the time, which I later elected not to do.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>=====================================
>
>What is this "choked" bore. Is it tapered or counterbored at the top? Do
>the rings ride on the "choked" part? How do you bore it (with a
>conventional boring bar) if it is tapered?
>Elon
>ormsby1(at)llnl.popsicle.llnl.gov
Elon, The top of the cylinder is a few thousanths less in diameter than the
rest of the bore, I think around 6-8 thousandths. This choke occurs in the
last 2 inches of travel. This area expands in operation because of the heat
generated in this area. If the bore were not "choked", the piston/rings
would slop around at the top of the stroke. This causes wear in the top
compression ring and it's groove. My information source for the above is:
the "Sky Ranch Engineering Manual" by John Schwaner, a book I highly
recommend, by the way. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
>When attaching stainless steel tape to Flap leading edge should the flap
>be painted with primer first or is it ok to attach to unpainted surface?
>Also is is best to leave top surface unpainted or has anyone painted it
>along with rest of aircraft?
>Don Pfeiffer RV6 donp(at)scruznet.com
Don, I see Mark mentioned the UHMW tape. You might consider this instead
of stainless tape. My roll of stainless is still on the shelf. The tape
Mark is referring to is .010" thick and comes in widths of 1/4" to 5" (up to
17" widths can be ordered) and the roll is 54 feet long. The 3" x 54' roll
is $ 39.15. This will do a lot of flaps. I also put a 3/4" strip of this
under the wing skin where it contacts the flap. Whether you use stainless
or the UHMW on your flaps, they will eventually scratch unless you were to
wipe the flap and bottom of the wing skin each time before you retract your
flaps which is pretty impractical. Scratches in the UHMW aren't very
noticable whereas they are very noticable with the stainless steel tape.
BTW, I installed the tape on the flap after it's final coat of paint and
after 300 hours, it's still stuck good. The adhesive on this tape is really
sticky.
I've found a lot of other uses for the UHMW tape. It can be used anywhere
things rub together. Landing gear fairings and top and bottom cuffs, wing
root fairings, on the tip-up canopy side skins where they over lap the
fuselage. I'd guess this material would work well on the aft deck of the
RV-4 where the canopy rubs the fuselage. I've used it on the engine mount
where there is a possibility of something rubbing the paint off the mount.
I used a couple of small pieces on my six where the rudder cables exit the
fuselage. It's handy for stuff around the house, too. I put some on my
Nordic Track skis when the little "bumpers" wore off. That was two or three
years ago and it hasn't worn through yet.
For anyone interested, the name of the company is United Plastics Corp.
and they can be reached at 1-800-537-9724. Get their catalog, they've got a
lot of other interesting stuff in there, too. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>
>Goerge Orndorff recommends Cablecraft which are available from Chief Aircraft
>(see RV Builders Yeller Pages in the archives for Phone #).
>
>Incidently, How long are the individual cables you are ordering, I need to do
>the same ordering thing and am making the same selection you are.
>
>Vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
The cables that I ordered are considered "special order" by ACS and were
quoted with a one week lead time, not a month. They still haven't been
manufactured yet!!! The three cables will have a threaded steel sleeve
swaged on the casing where it penetrates the firewall.
The following cables were ordered for my RV-6A with an O-320 D1A engine and
Woodward governor. They will be installed horizontally under the instrument
panel. I will not be using the vertical arrangement as specified in the plans.
Throttle cable:
A-800 Black friction lock control (ACS#05-08648), 48" long with a threaded
steel sleeve located 24.0" behind the panel nut. The cable will penetrate
the firewall through the slanted surface of the governor box, on the right side.
Mixture cable:
A-750 Red Vernier control (ACS#05-07848), 48" long with a threaded steel
sleeve located 24.5" behind the panel nut. The cable will parallel the
throttle cable.
Prop Cable:
A-750 Blue Vernier control (ACS#05-07960), 60" long with a threaded steel
sleeve located 32.5" behind the panel nut. The cable will penetrate the top
left side of the firewall.
The controls are still on order, so I haven't actually installed the cables
with the above dimensions yet. If a dimension is in error, I will post it
to the list.
ACS quotes a price of $6 for the threaded steel sleeve. The cables were
ordered along with many other items. They billed me for the shipping on the
in-stock items that were shipped. I was billed an additional $15 for
shipping of the cables. This policy was NEVER explained either in their
catalog or when the order was placed. The $6 sleeves wound up costing $11
each when the additional shipping is added. The $15 shipping charge that
was billed to my credit card is in excess of the rates published in their
catalog. For the shipping to be $15, the cables would have to weight a
total of 27 pounds!!!!!! IMHO, this borders on credit fraud. They have
already charged my credit card, the bill has arrive from Mastercard and I
have to pay for them or face finance charges, even though THEY HAVEN'T BEEN
MADE YET.
Wicks has the same cables, without the sleeves, in-stock with the exception
of the throttle cable, which is on back order. If ACS had been up front
with me from the start, I would have ordered stock cables and put a grommet
with shield at the firewall penetration. If I had known then what I know
now, the stock cables would have been ordered from Wicks. Hopefully others
on this list will keep this in mind when ordering their MTP cables. ACS
isn't the only supplier out there.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting -Wing Skins |
Text item:
WOW!!, YOU MUST HAVE AN AWFULLY SMALL RIVET GUN AND SET TO THINK ABOUT BACK
RIVETING THE LEADING EDGE. IF YOU MAKE IT WORK, POST IT HERE AS TO HOW YOU
ACCOMPLISHED IT. BY THE WAY, RIVET IN THE CRADLE, NOT ON THE SPAR.
I'm ready to begin riveting my leading edge wing skins. I've heard that back
riveting is a good option. It would seem that you can't back rivet if you put
the leading edge skin in the jig cradle for riveting. I would assume that you
leave the skin attached to the ribs on the main spar when back riveting. Is
this so? Do you usually back rivet the top leading edge skin and remove the
skin and put in the jig cradle to finish riveting the bottom of the
leading edge
skin with a bucking bar. My thinking of this process may be a mess. Would
appreciate someone straighting me out.
Best regards
Ron Caldwell - RV6A
(N655RV - Reserved)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Back Riveting -Wing Skins
From: Ron Caldwell <CompuServe.COM!74504.1365(at)matronics.com>
Date: 12 Sep 96 10:43:57 EDT
intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21553 for | Date: | Sep 12, 1996 |
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Couldn't pass this up . . . . in my experience, too many builders
put off consideration of electrical system issues until the airplane
is about done and they're ready to start stringing wires. I'd encourage
every builder to start gathering information early . . . the range
of options is tremendous. I'd like to believe that when the time comes
to start stringing wires and drilling holes in the panel, you've had
it all planned out for some time.
Whether the 'Connection is involved in your project or not, try to
develop an awareness and appreciation for things that are hidden
by sheet metal, paint and upholstery. If you see an airplane done
by a real craftsman, ask if they documented their electrical system
and the materials used. Quite often they're willing to share it.
You're not necessarily looking for a system to clone . . . but you'll
be surprised how easy it is to make decisions about your own airplane
after you've researched a dozen others.
If you're an AutoCAD user, I have uploaded a wire book "seedling"
disk to the maintenance library of AVSIG on Compuserve. The same
data will be downloadable from our website in a few days . . . I'll
post a notice when it goes up. This disk contains a wire book in process
for a client's airplane. It has the forms, symbols library and lots
of systems pages already drawn . . it can save you HOURS of work.
Search on "nuckolls".
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
******************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
******************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: O320D2J 160hp->175 hp & C/S ? |
>While we are talking about engine upgrades/piston changes, I was wondering
>if anyone has experience/knowledge in converting a Lyc. O320D2J from the
>160 hp version to the 175 hp version ? I am trying to avoid having have
>to purchase and install a O360/IO360 and the down time associating with
>such change.
>
>In addition, does anyone know if one can put a constant speed prop on the
>O320D2J with a hollow crankshaft ?
>
>Any pointer or referral to reputable shops/persons would be greatly
>appreciated !
>
>Kind regards,
>Ming
Ming,
I think this is the 10.5:1 high compression piston option
(helicopter pistons?).
Ly-Con in Visalia, central California, does this on a regular basis
for the Bakersfield RV Bunch for their aerobatic RV4s, claiming 180+ HP
from O-320s with a few other mods.
Their phone number is 209-651-1070
... they come with good references from Bakersfield.
... let us all know what you find out ... Gil Alexander
RV6A, #20710
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First hole (Bob Skinner CHATTER)! |
<< I drilled the first hole on my kit last night, in the right place even
!
and then perform the operation. Repeat for next step.
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
So Rob, seeing as how it's a quick build, you're done, right? Bob Skinner
:)
>>
Now That's FUNNY!
Gary Corde
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Check Six (Chatter) |
<< Or, it could be that Rob Lee is behind you.. >>
Follow the leader, he's flyin' an RV-6 (WITHOUT the winnie wheel) :)
Gary Corde
Proper RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wrecked Bonanza parts |
<< Ah -- but that's if he's a builder. He's a Production Airplane kind of
guy. >>
Let me grt this right, Joe. You're building an airplane and you still
associate with production types. This perverted behavior will surly lead to
no good, possibly blindness.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting -Wing Skins |
>I'm ready to begin riveting my leading edge wing skins. I've heard that back
>riveting is a good option. It would seem that you can't back rivet if you put
>the leading edge skin in the jig cradle for riveting. I would assume that you
>leave the skin attached to the ribs on the main spar when back riveting. Is
>this so? Do you usually back rivet the top leading edge skin and remove the
>skin and put in the jig cradle to finish riveting the bottom of the leading
edge
>skin with a bucking bar. My thinking of this process may be a mess. Would
>appreciate someone straighting me out.
>Best regards Ron Caldwell - RV6A (N655RV - Reserved)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
Ron, The main skins, not the leading edge & fuel tank are what is back
riveted. I've never heard of anyone trying to backrivet the LE. However,
it sure would be neat if someone would try it and report back to us:) I
speculated on the list some time ago about doing this and when I get to that
point on my wing construction, I'll check it out for myself. I thought it
might be possible to leave the LE clecoed to the front spar and all of the
ribs and, starting at the bottom of the ribs, start back riveting and work
toward the nose as far as you can go. The idea didn't seem to generate much
discussion on the list and it may not be worht the risk to a lot of builders.
They do make a right angle rivet gun, which is quite expensive. Also,
there is a very short barreled, straight rivet gun that uses a special,
short rivet set that looks as though it might fit inside the LE and tank
while it is off the airplane and in the craddle. It's priced at $ 320.00
from U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply.
On the main skins, back riveting seems to work very well. I didn't do
this on my first RV but bought the back riveting stuff for my second. I
helped a RV-6 builder in CO back rivet his wings and it worked out well and
I sure intend to do my main skins on my second RV. There are also a lot of
places on the fuselage that back riveting will work. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
>I didn't see any other responses to this, so I'll toss in what I know.
>Approximately a year ago, an early RV-3 was destroyed in flight. The
>plane in question was being flown in close proximity to Van in one of the
>factory planes at the time, making the incident even more poignant.
>From bits and pieces I have heard, and some of this information might be
>confusing multiple incidents or just plain wrong -- please don't jump all
>over me for that -- here is some info.
The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
meter
is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
By the way, there is a large list of these reports linked to the NTSB web
site.
They are indexed by date and not searchable (as far as I can tell) but many
of
the conclusions reached are real eye openers. The NTSB site is located at
http://www.ntsb.gov. and is well worth browsing thru.
DougMel(at)aol.com
RV6 or 6A, working on RHS elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back Riveting -Wing Skins |
Ron Caldwell wrote:
>
> I'm ready to begin riveting my leading edge wing skins. I've heard that back
> riveting is a good option. It would seem that you can't back rivet if you put
> the leading edge skin in the jig cradle for riveting. I would assume that you
> leave the skin attached to the ribs on the main spar when back riveting. Is
> this so? Do you usually back rivet the top leading edge skin and remove the
> skin and put in the jig cradle to finish riveting the bottom of the leading edge
> skin with a bucking bar. My thinking of this process may be a mess. Would
> appreciate someone straighting me out.
>
> Best regards
>
> Ron Caldwell - RV6A
> (N655RV - Reserved)
> 74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
I just back rivited the top main skins and not the leading edge skins.
I just put them in the cradle, reached inside with a small bucking bar
and rivited from the outside. It helps if you have long arms near the
front radius or a friend to hold the bucking bar in these areas.
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louise Coats <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange. First
time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
L.Coats RV6 120 hr
Louise
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Elon,
I should have posted to the whole list, I provided some info on this to
someone else.
The GPS satellite system is biased towards the continental U.S. and the
Northern hemisphere. As you built the system we cannot really complain. For
this reason the orbital planes are established to provide optimum coverage
for the U.S and Northern hemisphere. There are occasional periods in the
southern hemisphere when there are insufficient satellites in view for a GPS
to maintain its RAIM function. This does not effect GPS as an aid to VFR
navigation but does effect its licensing in Australia for sole IFR use.
There is much discussion by our local aviation authority as to means of
providing sufficient systems integrity to enable GPS to be used as a sole
IFR aid for en-route navigation and non-precision and precision approaches.
For us even one satellite is a big ask although one geo stationary satellite
over Australia would provide the requisite wide area augmentation.
Leo Davies,
Sydney, Aust.
>I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
>where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
>back-up system.
>======================================
>
>The system is composed of 24 satellites and 3 spares. In concept they will
>bring down the old sats and launch new ones as future technology improves.
>The orbits are inclined in 6 planes around the earth. In the air my GPS
>almost always locks onto 6 satellites and only rarely has it been 5. The
>Russian GLONOSS system is said to be more precise because they do not have
>SA(selective availability). SA is the US military requirement to degrade the
>signal (i.e., positional accuracy). However, the military has announced
>they will turn off SA by 2010. With WAAS (mentioned earlier on this list)
>and Deferential GPS, the use of SA becomes irrelevant for general and
>commercial aviation. Each satellite has its own atomic clock and each clock
>is updated every day. There is already redundancy built into the system. I
>don't know the odds but I feel much more secure that a satellite will be
>waiting for me 200 miles down the road than when I am tuning in the next VOR
>and listening for that dit dit da.
>
>In the future you will most likely see a system that integrates both the
>Russian and US systems. Aschroft now sells a expensive GPS that will lock
>onto BOTH systems. How do you say "back-up" in Russian?
>
>Ground based nav-aids are old technology, frequently broken, and expensive
>to maintain. Just think - there are more than 400 VORs in the US alone and
>now 24 satellites are giving you world wide coverage. I was surprised to
>hear that a part of Australia lacks occasional coverage. I would like to
>learn more about that.
>Elon
>ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: O320D2J 160hp->175 hp & C/S ? |
Thanks, Gil !
I will report back with the result of my inquiries.
> I think this is the 10.5:1 high compression piston option
> (helicopter pistons?).
> Ly-Con in Visalia, central California, does this on a regular basis
> for the Bakersfield RV Bunch for their aerobatic RV4s, claiming 180+ HP
> from O-320s with a few other mods.
> Their phone number is 209-651-1070
> ... they come with good references from Bakersfield.
> ... let us all know what you find out ... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & cable |
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Any free play at all in a trim tab sounds like a recipe for flutter/disaster.
> I'd sure check with the factory about this before my next flight!
Was reading thru AC43.13 last night, it has this to say on trim tab
free play (Chapter 2 Section 1 para 55e)
The total free play at the tab trailing edge should be less
than the following. If the tab span does not exceed 35%
of the span of the supporting control surface, the total free play
shall not exceed 2% of the distance from the tab hing line to
the trailing edge of the tab perpendicular to the tab hinge line.
If the tab span equals or exceeds 35% of the span of the supporting
surface, the total free play is not to exceed 1% of the distance from
the tab hinge line to the trailing edge of the tab ...
So, if I read this right, going by my plans, the free play should be
less than 0.11" or slightly under 1/8"
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 Drilling wd-605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
>...........
>Make it so .;-)
>
>.............
This quote from Van's... you don't suppose Capt. Picard (Star Trek) built a
RV in his youth do you? :^)
Royce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
>>Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange. First
>>time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
>>spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
>>and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
>>have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
>>days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
>>
>>L.Coats RV6 120 hr
>>Louise
>>
>>
I would have posted this to you privately, but you gave no email
address, (I dont post generally to the list anymore, too many snobs
ready to "sharp-shoot" what you're doing and your motives . ). but I thought it might be important enough to break this
rule to advise you to check your jug hold down nut torque. It may be
that the cracks in the pipe are due to the jug moving about on it's
mount. I understand Lycs are noted for this. Just a thought.... (I'm
certainly no expert, nor am trying to sell you anything).
bill nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builders' Yeller Pages |
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.4431.emout16.mail.aol.com.842587098"
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.4431.emout16.mail.aol.com.842587098
Here it is kids! Yeller is a unique search word so it works for me. Thanks
for the inputs and keep them coming! This is a work in progress.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.4431.emout16.mail.aol.com.842587098
name="AV1.TXT"
RV BUILDERS' YELLER PAGES
AIRCRAFT SPRUCE 800-824-1930 714-870-7551 EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
AIRCRAFT TOOL SUPPLY 800-248-0638 517-739-1447 PLANE BUILDER'S TOOL KITS
AM-SAFE 602-233-2802 SAFETY HARNESSES
ANGEL FLIGHT 310-390-2958 MEDICAL TRANSPORT NETWORK
APM-HEXSEAL 201-569-5700 SEALING HEAD SCREWS
AUA 800-727-3823 AIRCRAFT INSURANCE
AUSTIN HARDWARE 800-648-1150 702-359-3031 GLARESHIELD EDGING & MISC HDWR
AVEMCO 800-276-5207 AIRCRAFT INSURANCE
AVERY ENTERPRISES 817-439-8400 SHEET METAL AND MISC PRODUCTS
AVIATION DEV CORP 800-944-3011 206-546-3011 REMOTE OIL FILTER
AVIATION PRODUCTS 805-646-6042 TAILWHEEL ASSYS
BARNARD AIRCRAFT COMP 916-676-5601 FAST BUILD RV WING KITS =
BARRY CONTROLS 818-843-1000 ENGINE ISOLATOR MOUNTS
B&C SPECIALTY PRODUCTS 316-283-8000 ALTERNATORS/STARTERS AND ELEC
B&F AIRCRAFT SUPPLY 312-422-3220 AIRCRAFT BUILDING SUPPLIES
BOEING SURPLUS 206-393-4060 SURPLUS AIRCRAFT TOOLS AND SUPPLIES
CABLECRAFT 206-475-1080 THROTTLE/MIX/PROP/MISC CONTROL CABLES
CARLINGSWITCH 800-243-8556 203-793-9281 VARIOUS PANEL SWITCHES
CHIEF AIRCRAFT 800-447-3408 541-476-6605 AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
CLEAVELAND TOOLS 800-368-1822 515-432-6794 AIRCRAFT TOOLS
COPPER ISLAND AVIATION 604-675-4428 RV FLOAT KIT DEVELOPER
COURTAULD'S AEROSPACE 800-332-7686 PRIMERS, COATINGS, SEALANTS
D&D AIRCRAFT SUPPLY 800-468-8000 603-926-8881 AIRCRAFT HARDWARE
DUCKWORKS (DON WENTZ) 503-543-2298 RV LANDING LIGHT KITS
DYNAMIC PROP BALANCING 800-562-7746 PROP BALANCING
EAR COMPOSITES 317-692-1111 NOISE CONTROL PRODUCTS
EASY PUBLISHING 505-865-3466 16 YEARS OF THE RVATOR
ELECTRONICS INTL 503-628-9113 DIGITAL GAUGES
EXP AIRCRAFT ASSN 414-426-4800 OUR GREAT ORGANIZATION
FAA AIRCRAFT REGISTRY 405-954-4206 REGISTRATION NUMBERS
FASTENING HDWR SUPPLY 716-681-1675 STAINLESS AND OTHER FASTENERS
CARL FICH 360-699-1800 COMPLETED RV FUEL TANKS
STEVE FREY ENG 610-692-3553 RV FUSELAGE JIGS
GENUINE AIRCRAFT HDWR 805-239-3169 AIRCRAFT FASTENERS
WARREN GRETZ 303-770-3811 HEATED PITOT TUBE MTG BRKTS
JOHN HAEHN 307-367-6522 RV4 SLIDING CANOPY KITS
HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS 800-423-2567 805-445-4791 JUST TOOLS CHEAP
HOOKER HARNESS 815-233-5478 SAFETY HARNESSES
HORIZON INSTRUMENTS 800-541-8128 GRAPHIC INSTRUMENTS
J.C. AERO SUPPLY 707-452-8041 AIRCRAFT FASTENERS
J.P. INSTRUMENTS 714-557-5434 SMALL DIGITAL INSTRUMENTS
KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER 800-827-5070 KAB MAGAZINE
RICH KLEE 916-863-1927 LANDING LIGHT BLINKER
LANDOLL 405-392-3847 STARTERS, DAMPERS, ALTERNATORS
DJ LAURITSEN 515-432-6794 SEATS
LIGHTSPEED ENGINEERING 805-933-3299 ELECTRONIC IGNITION
LONDON AND ASSOCIATES 503-543-3986 PREBUILT RV FUEL TANKS
LY-CON 209-651-1070 PERFORMANCE ENGINE MODS AND REBUILDS =
MATRONICS 510-447-9886 SERVO SPEED CONTROL/FUEL GAUGES
MENZIMER AIRCRAFT COMP 619-598-0592 SERVOS AND STICK GRIPS
MIKE'S AERO 707-965-2411 ENGINE SERVICE
MOUNTAIN HIGH EQUIPMENT 800-468-8185 PULSE DEMAND OXYGEN SYSTEMS
NATIONAL HOSE 713-920-2030 AEROQUIP INDUSTRIAL HOSE
NAVAID DEVICES 423-267-3311 TRACKING SINGLE AXIS AUTOPILOT
NORTHWEST AERO PRODUCTS 206-735-5022 AIRCRAFT HARDWARE
OIL ANALYSIS 918-492-5844 ENGINE OIL ANALYSIS KITS
OLANDER 408-735-1850 FASTENERS AND TOOLS
OLDS ENTERPRISES 501-965-7835 RV LANDING LIGHT KITS
OREGON AERO 800-888-6910 COCKPIT COMFORT ITEMS
G&B ORNDORFF 817-439-3280 RV VIDEOS, SEATS AND MISC
JEFF POSCHWATTA 206-639-1212 MR. LYCOMING
PRECISION AIRMOTIVE 206-353-8181 OEM CARBURETORS
RADIO SYSTEMS ENG 916-272-2203 KIT AVIONICS
REED MFG 541-471-6289 BLADDER BUSTER RV WING TANKS
RICH INDUSTRIES 520-758-2777 STAINLESS FITTINGS
RICK ROBBINS 303-422-9389 HEAT MUFFS
RMD AIRCRAFT LIGHTING 503-681-0685 RV WING TIP LANDING LIGHTS
ROCKY MTN INSTRUMENT 307-864-9300 MICRO-ENCODER =
RV FLIGHT BAG 503-648-3464 RV PARAPHERNALIA
SACRAMENTO SKY RANCH 800-433-3564 916-421-7672 AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
TRACY SAYLOR 805-933-8225 FIBERGLASS RV GEAR LEG FAIRINGS
T.A. SHULGIN CO. 510-228-2512 STAINLESS STEEL HOSE FITTINGS
SKYBOLT AIRMOTIVE 407-889-2613 AIRCRAFT FASTENERS
SKYLINE AVIATION 800-535-8640 810-635-8724 RV ROLLING TOWBARS
SKYSPORTS INTL 800-247-7883 INSTRUMENTS, CAPACITANCE FUEL GAUGES
SKY-TEC 800-476-7896 941-324-7979 LIGHT WEIGHT STARTERS
SOUNDCOAT 516-242-2200 NOISE CONTROL PRODUCTS
STEALTH TECHNOLOGIES 888-333-5933 AIRCRAFT ALARM SYSTEMS
DOUG STENGER 503-324-6993 RV SUBASSY BUILDER
SOFTCOM 800-255-2660 602-917-2328 HEADSETS AND INTERCOMS
TEMPERFOAM 402-470-2346 TEMPERFOAM
TEXTRON LYCOMING 717-327-7278 AIRCRAFT ENGINES
TPS AVIATION 510-475-1010 AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
USHER INDUSTRIES 503-647-0015 RV FUEL CAPS
UNITED PLASTICS CORP 800-537-9724 UHMW TAPE AND MISC PLASTICS
U.S. TOOL 800-521-7394 313-455-3388 BUILDER'S TOOL KITS
VAN'S AIRCRAFT 503-647-5117 RV KITS
VARGA ENTERPRISES 800-966-6936 CUSTOM FUEL AND OIL HOSES
VETTERMAN HIGH COUNTRY 303-932-0561 RV EXHAUST SYSTEMS
VISION MICROSYSTEMS 360-398-1833 DIGITAL ENGINE MONITORS
WHELEN ENG 203-526-9504 AIRCRAFT LIGHTING SYSTEMS
WICKS AIRCRAFT 800-221-9425 618-654-7447 EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
WAG AERO 800-558-6868 414-763-9586 AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES
THE YARD 800-888-8991 TOOLS
=0D
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.4431.emout16.mail.aol.com.842587098--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
<< Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange.
First
time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested. >>
Yes, dump it and install a Vetterman system.
Sorry,
-GV
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cylinder Choke...Explanation |
For Elon...and others....
>From Light Plane Maintenance's Book, TOP END, Chapter 2:
"...In aircraft, choke is the difference between normal TBO and a premature
top overhaul.
In an aircraft-engine cylinder, when the crankcase end points up, the
clyinder wall taper toward the "head" end of the barrel. This taper is the
cylinder"s "choke".
Why taper a barrel this way? In an air-cooled engine, a fairly extreme
temperature gradient exists from the base of the cylinder to the head during
normal operation. Thus, if the cylinder barrel did not incorporate a slight
taper when cold, it would assume a negative taper or "tulip out" when hot
due to thermal expansion at the combustion end. This, in turn, woiuld lead
to irregular, rapid ring wear, poor oil control, and loss of combustion
efficiency. This why a new Lycoming and Continental cylinders leave the
factory with as much as .010-inch taper at the head end of the barrel.
It doesn't take much choke to do the job......... Lycoming's direct drive
Table of limits doesn't contain new-limits choke specs, but does set a
service limit of .0045-in (for-and-a-half thou) on old barrels. ......"
My old 1969 Lycoming 320 in my Cessna 172 has about 5900 hours since new,
has been overhauled twice, has 1900 hours since last overhaul, and on my
trip to from So. Cal to Alaska and back this summer, used 5 qts of oil in 55
tach hours (11 hours/qt). Whoever last overhauled it....got the choke right!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Check Six (Chatter) |
>Follow the leader, he's flyin' an RV-6 (WITHOUT the winnie wheel) :)
>
>Gary Corde
>Proper RV-6
FWOOOOSH!!! (flamethrower sound)
Boy, I hope your asbestos suit is in good condition! ;^)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
writes:
>Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange. First
>time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side
to
>spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the
gusset
>and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
>have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple
of
>days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
>L.Coats RV6 120 hr
>Louise
Louise:
Who's exhaust system are you using??
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Main skin overlap. |
A few weeks ago I looked over an RV6A that was an excellent example of
workmanship.
I noticed that the builder had used a unique approach where the inboard &
outboard
top skins overlap. I wonder how unique this is.
The technique: Where the top main skins overlap, the outboard is on top of the
inboard skin.
This causes a small uneven area, due to the thickness of the metal. This
builder trimmed
back the area that was sitting over the spars from the inboard skin. This let
the the outboard
skin lay flat against the spar over the inboard skin, the un-trimmed part.
Now before I confuse you more, there is a double set of rivets in the area where
the skins meet.
One row runs down a rib the other just goes through the two skins. He did not
trim this area,
just the area over the main spar and rear spar. This allowed the skin to lay
flatter and
be less notable.
Here is a cryptic diagram in an attempt to clarify the above description.
-------------| main spar |-----------------------
-----| |. . Z
Inboard . .| |. . Outboard Z
Top . .| |. . Top Z
Main . .| |. . Main Z
Skin . .| |. . Skin Z
. .| |. . Z
. .| |. . Z
. .| |. . Z
-----| |. . Z
-------------| rear spar |-----------------------
^
|- Inboard and outboard skins meet here.
Now if you slide these together, with the outboard over the inboard skin you
will see what I mean.
He did not do this to the bottom skins, no one pays them any attention anyway.
Even with a relief cut/hole in the corners of the cut out areas, it looks like
a good place
for a crack to start. IMHO
Just how unique is this? Have any of you seen or done this to your skins?
James Kelley
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John E Musser <jemusser(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
I've heard that the pegging of the "G" meter may not be all that
significant. The centrifugal force imparted to the fuselage when the
wing seperated could have easily caused the meter to peg and freeze. I
think that the ultimate conclusion is correct, overstress of the wing,
but not that all the "evidence" is conclusive.
John
jemusser(at)tenet.edu
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 aol.com!DougMel(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >I didn't see any other responses to this, so I'll toss in what I know.
>
> >Approximately a year ago, an early RV-3 was destroyed in flight. The
> >plane in question was being flown in close proximity to Van in one of the
> >factory planes at the time, making the incident even more poignant.
>
> >From bits and pieces I have heard, and some of this information might be
> >confusing multiple incidents or just plain wrong -- please don't jump all
> >over me for that -- here is some info.
>
> The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
> that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
> meter
> is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
>
> By the way, there is a large list of these reports linked to the NTSB web
> site.
> They are indexed by date and not searchable (as far as I can tell) but many
> of
> the conclusions reached are real eye openers. The NTSB site is located at
> http://www.ntsb.gov. and is well worth browsing thru.
>
> DougMel(at)aol.com
> RV6 or 6A, working on RHS elevator
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccarpent(at)pressenter.com (Cliff Carpenter) |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
Louise, Deju vu for me! It took 4 or 5 times welding in different places
before those d### exhaust pipes didn't crack anymore. The final fix for me
(800+hrs,no cracks) were two braces from eng to pipes and a crossover brace
pipe to pipe just to the rear of where the eng to pipes braces would be.
The vetterman pipes have some good press but I have no personal knowledge.
Good luck!
Cliff,N141CC,RV-4,going IFR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Barr <barr(at)nilenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Leo Davies says:
> For us even one satellite is a big ask although one geo stationary satellite
> over Australia would provide the requisite wide area augmentation.
Hmmm. Geostationary satellites are over the equator, and up at roughly
27000 miles. What orbital height are the rest of the satellites at? I
wonder how that would effect accuracy.
_____________________________________________ _____
| Keith S. Barr AeroSys Engineering, Inc. | \ \__ ____
| barr(at)nilenet.com Westminster, Colorado | \ \/____\__\___________
| GO BUFFS! http://www.nilenet.com/~barr |}--< /_/ COMM-AS&MEL-A&IGI `-.
| EAA/AOPA/NAFI RV-6 N640SH-tail in progress | `---------,---,-----------'
|_____________________________________________| _/___/0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
> > The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
> > that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
> > meter is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
Did the aircraft not do a high-G stop when the parts struck terra-firma.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
>Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange. First
>time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
>spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
>and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
>have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
>days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
>
>L.Coats RV6 120 hr
>Louise
Louise, This is common on the Allan Tolle exhaust system. I had bought a
Tolle system but after hearing of all of the problems, sold it at a loss and
bought a Vetterman 4 pipe system made of mild steel. I just didn't want to
take a risk of catching something on fire with the Tolle system. I bought
the four pipe mild steel as it was the cheapest and I figured I'd already
tied up enough money in exhaust systes.
The homebuilt bulletin board in K.C. is full of problems with the Tolle
system. Alan is a nice guy but his systems stink. Some of the fixes tried
include gussets, slip joints and saddle links (like Vetterman uses). Also,
the interior of the tube must be flooded with argon. (This is a tidbit stuck
in the cobwebs of my mind, don't remember who told this to me.) The main
problem area of the Tolle system in on cylinder #4.
I now have the Vetterman stainless steel crossover. The reason for the
change from 4 pipe to crossover was to obtain more cabin heat. So far, I've
not heard any complaints about the Vetterman system.
By the way, I still have the Vetterman 4 pipe and will sell it for $ 150.00.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
A box of scotchbrite pads
Don't buy scotchbrite pads from tool or paint suppliers.
You can use the regular green dishwashing ones from your local
supermarket... heaps cheaper.
I originally bought one each of the red and grey (coarse and fine) pads,
but have only occasionally used the coarse one, and never used the fine one
I buy my scotchbrite pads from local industrial tool suppliers.
I buy only the red ones and scuff the whole plane with these prior to
painting. They are not very coarse, ie. no deep scratches (the green ones
just piss me off). Additionally, I purchase them by the box or
case.....what ever it's call. After using them for a while you will be able
to tell when the one your using is worn and needs replacing.
Happy Building
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main skin overlap. |
James Kelley wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago I looked over an RV6A that was an excellent example of
> workmanship.
> I noticed that the builder had used a unique approach where the inboard &
> outboard
> top skins overlap. I wonder how unique this is.
>
**SOME SNIPS**
> trim this area,
> just the area over the main spar and rear spar. This allowed the skin to lay
> flatter and
> be less notable.
>
> Here is a cryptic diagram in an attempt to clarify the above description.
>
> -------------| main spar |-----------------------
> -----| |. . Z
> Inboard . .| |. . Outboard Z
> Top . .| |. . Top Z
> Main . .| |. . Main Z
> Skin . .| |. . Skin Z
> . .| |. . Z
> . .| |. . Z
> . .| |. . Z
> -----| |. . Z
> -------------| rear spar |-----------------------
>
> ^
> |- Inboard and outboard skins meet here.
>
> Now if you slide these together, with the outboard over the inboard skin you
> will see what I mean.
> He did not do this to the bottom skins, no one pays them any attention anyway.
>
> Even with a relief cut/hole in the corners of the cut out areas, it looks like
> a good place
> for a crack to start. IMHO
>
> Just how unique is this? Have any of you seen or done this to your skins?
>
> James Kelley
> 72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
James this is standard practice on the top two piece wing skins, just
round the corners where the cut outs are and there will not be a
cracking problem.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape |
When attaching stainless steel tape to Flap leading edge should the flap
be painted with primer first or is it ok to attach to unpainted surface?
Also is is best to leave top surface unpainted or has anyone painted it
along with rest of aircraft?
Don Pfeiffer RV6
donp(at)scruznet.com
=========================
Don,
On my friends (Rob Lee) plane we painted the top side. The steel tape is in
place and seems to work fine once you get it on right. "Check Six Mark" has
a supplier of a semi-clear plastic tape that looks real nice.
I'm planning to us the semi-clear tape on my plane but I don't understand
why we can't apply the tape to the underside of the top wing skin. I think
this would work just as well and it would be out of site.
Any comments?
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Separator Return Line/Ugly Goop |
Why would you want to return that ugly goop to the crankcase?
Some builders have been collecting the oil return in a f-wall mounted
container and periodically draining it. This will keep the stuff off
the belly of the plane. The cowls come off at oil changes. Does
anybody have a feel for what volume is required (25 hour intervals).
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
=====================
David,
The volume of oil in the seperator is unique for each engine. Engine
blow-by is a good indicator of the overall health of the top-end. This is a
case where less is best. Every engine will have some blow-by. What is
normal volume? I don't know and it depends on how much money you want to
spend in the top-end. Most a/c I've seen seem to have a one to two pint can
mounted to the firewall.
Maybe other listers can inform us concerning how much oil they are
trapping. For example: my Cessna used to have a oil slick on the belly
continuously, I replaced the pistons/rings and cylinders and now I have a
clean belly.......a/c belly that is .
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
>
>The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
>that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
>meter
>is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
>
G meter readings in an aircraft that has hit the ground after an in flight
break up mean little to me. What do you think the G meter did when it hit
the ground?
Unless something pinned the meter in flight as the aircraft broke up it's
readout could be altered when the wreckage impacted the ground and thus
rendering the data useless.
I would think more reliable information can be obtained by the observations
of those that saw the incident. The deails in the NTSB accident synopsis
were "The pilot of the RV-3 initiated a steeply banked right turn, after
following another aircraft in a rapid climbing maneuver. During this turn,
which was described by witnesses on the ground as extremely tight, the right
wing was seen to separate from the fuselage."
So who knows what the G load really was. Unfortunately it took this accident
to uncover the potential problems with the 3 wing. Van has taken the
necessary steps to insure the 3's are modified to withstand his original
design limits.
The wing is different from the 4 & 6 wing and those have been tested.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 Years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
Bob Skinner wrote:
> Louise, This is common on the Allan Tolle exhaust system. I had bought a
> Tolle system but after hearing of all of the problems, sold it at a loss and
> bought a Vetterman 4 pipe system made of mild steel.
*snip*
> I now have the Vetterman stainless steel crossover. The reason for the
> change from 4 pipe to crossover was to obtain more cabin heat. So far, I've
> not heard any complaints about the Vetterman system.
> By the way, I still have the Vetterman 4 pipe and will sell it for $ 150.00.
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Bob
I had AT exhaust and it broke #4 to many times to count no matter
what I did.
You're right Vettermen is the only way to go if you can't build your
own, BTW did you notice any difference between the crossover
and the four straight pipes.
-
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
Robert Moore wrote:
>
> > > The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
> > > that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if
the
> > > meter is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
>
> Did the aircraft not do a high-G stop when the parts struck terra-firma.
>
> Bob Moore
When an aircraft hits something as hard as the ground it will usually
stop or leave an imprint of where the needle on the gauge was at time
of impact
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
Keith Barr wrote:
> Hmmm. Geostationary satellites are over the equator, and up at roughly
> 27000 miles. What orbital height are the rest of the satellites at? I
> wonder how that would effect accuracy.
Geostationary sats in the Clarke belt are 22,300 miles. GPS sats orbit at
one half that at 11,000 miles. There are of course numerous low orbit spy
and weather sats arount 200-300 miles.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
| Subject: | Van's Airforce - Ontario (Canada) Wing |
Remaining Fly-Out Dates:
September 21st - Brantford, Ontario
October 5th - Bancroft, Ontario
October 19th - London, Ontario
Arrive in morning around 10. Have lunch and then fly-out in early
afternoon. Gives everyone a chance to exchange ideas, ask questions of
each other, take pictures, etc.
Contact Charlie Douma at (416) 451-2327 for further details.
Cathy Lamport
cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Inflight breakup...enough already |
Out of respect for those who were lost and those who miss them, please
let's stop this thread.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Inflight breakup
Date: 9/13/96 02:01 PM
> > The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
> > that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
> > meter is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
Did the aircraft not do a high-G stop when the parts struck terra-firma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:UHMW tape |
Where does one get this thin UHMW tape stuff?
It's too late for my flaps, which have the SS tape over primer, and will be
masked off for painting, but the canopy side skins could use this treatment,
as someone suggested earlier, since I plan to let them lap over the fuselage
sides a fraction of an inch.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
I ordered a new exhaust system from Vans (Vetterman).......
>Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange. First
>time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
>spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
>and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
>have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
>days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
>
>L.Coats RV6 120 hr
>Louise
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | canopy frame details |
Okay, guys and gals, a question I need answered ASAP, if you please:
I'm at the point of cutting the plexi for my 6A tip-up canopy (gasp, tremble,
swallow hard). Before I do, I want to get (at least) one thing straight.
The canopy must transition from sitting atop (outside, if you will) the fwd
canopy skin to a position inside(below) this same skin as it wraps around the
sides of the canopy frame. (i.e., the plexi must cross the plane of the
aluminum skin at some point in order to fit in the groove on the side pieces
of the frame, since the aluminum skin becomes the outside of that groove at
the sides, yet sits below and inside the plexi up front over the instrument
panel). Is that clear as mud?? Those of you who have completed this phase
will know what I mean.
As I see it, one of 3 things must happen: the skin must be notched or the
canopy must be notched where the two pcs cross over, or the skin must be
dog-eared inward at the corner to lie flush with the canopy frame side pcs
and let the plexi pass over at that spot. Any of the above would then need
to be concealed with the figerglass fairing strip. My detasiled study of the
latest update of the manual and plans has shed no light on this geometry.
The photos are of the prototype parts which only vaguely resemble the parts
before me. Vintage Van's documentation, for sure. Boy, if they had *me* to
do their manuals, I'd make sure they were thorough and we could *all*
understand everything . Well, they haven't offered me the job, so that's
everyone's loss, and Frank Justice will just have to fill in for me :-)
Any suggestions on how to fit the canopy and skin happily together would be
appreciated. I hope to forge ahead with the Norton wheel tonight!
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
>Bob
>I had AT exhaust and it broke #4 to many times to count no matter
>what I did.
>
>You're right Vettermen is the only way to go if you can't build your
>own, BTW did you notice any difference between the crossover
>and the four straight pipes.
>
>-
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
Jerry, Unfortunately, I also put my freshly re-pitched prop back on the
airplane at the same time that I switched exhaust systems. There was a
minor performance increase, however, I would give credit to the prop change
for this change. My gut feeling is that the exhaust system change didn't
accomplish much (except give my wife some much needed heat in the cabin) and
I believe that Larry Vetterman thinks the same thing, if I remember the
conversation I had with Larry, correctly. Boy, that Vetterman SS cross-over
is a thing of beauty, isn't it?
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cables |
After attaching my rudder pedal cables to the pedals and
testing them through their range of motion which is governed
by the 35 degree rudder travel I found that the front
attachment (F6121) of my rudder cables "bump" the plastic
grommet in my F602 bulkhead. My first thought was to wrap a
piece of small dia. plastic tubing around the cable and the
attachment so it travels smoothly over the grommet in F-602.
any other suggestions would be welcome.
chet razer: crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:UHMW tape |
Where does one get this thin UHMW tape stuff?
It's too late for my flaps, which have the SS tape over primer, and will be
masked off for painting, but the canopy side skins could use this treatment,
as someone suggested earlier, since I plan to let them lap over the fuselage
sides a fraction of an inch.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
======================
Check Bob Skinner's day old post on "FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape". It's got the
information your looking for........
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & cable |
Brian, I appreciate your reply on the allowable freeplay on the trim tab.
Obviously, the cable assembly sold by Van's is the culprit. Do they monitor
this forum? Has anyone challenged this excessive slop in their cable? If
not, I will.
Bill Orcutt
RV-6A
Best
BillO(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
>The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
>that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
>meter
Man, I knew I was building the right airplane. The wing broke and the plane
only sustained 9.2g when it hit the ground. Forget the ballistic chute
idea. Shoot, I've had students come close to that on some landings.
Knocking on wood,
Mike Weller
ps. I shouldn't make light of this. May God bless the pilot's soul.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
Hi,
This recent discussion about the air-oil separators has got
me wondering. It hadn't occured to me to put on in my 6A. Now I'm
thinking - should I? My understanding - from this thread - is that
the purpose is to catch oil from the breather line so it won't junk
up the bottom of the plane. Is there another reason?
Just when I was thinking I have everything figured out....
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Dallas Roberts <groberts(at)telcomplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight breakup |
I would have to say that the G meter being stuck at 9.2 g's would have to
mean that a 9.2g force from either acceleration or deceleration would have
to be exerted on the meter until the meter was catastrophically impacted in
such a way that the device locked in that exact indicated position. IMHO I
would have to say that a 9.2g force created from a control input would not
"lock" the meter in that precise position. In addition, I don't believe that
the forces generated by a nasty in-flight break-up would lock this guy in
position either. I would say that the forces required for such a thing to
happen would be much more likely to occur from the rapid deceleration of the
device as it impacted the ground or another object of large mass. Now if a
person were doing a hard pull-up into a cliff or something obvious like that
it might be plausible. Sounded good though.
>
>I've heard that the pegging of the "G" meter may not be all that
>significant. The centrifugal force imparted to the fuselage when the
>wing seperated could have easily caused the meter to peg and freeze. I
>think that the ultimate conclusion is correct, overstress of the wing,
>but not that all the "evidence" is conclusive.
>
>John
>jemusser(at)tenet.edu
>
>
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 aol.com!DougMel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>> >I didn't see any other responses to this, so I'll toss in what I know.
>>
>> >Approximately a year ago, an early RV-3 was destroyed in flight. The
>> >plane in question was being flown in close proximity to Van in one of the
>> >factory planes at the time, making the incident even more poignant.
>>
>> >From bits and pieces I have heard, and some of this information might be
>> >confusing multiple incidents or just plain wrong -- please don't jump all
>> >over me for that -- here is some info.
>>
>> The report from this accident was written up by the NTSB who stated
>> that the G meter in the aircraft was stuck at 9.2g's!! This aircraft, if the
>> meter
>> is to be believed, was pulled beyond the ultimate design load.
>>
>> By the way, there is a large list of these reports linked to the NTSB web
>> site.
>> They are indexed by date and not searchable (as far as I can tell) but many
>> of
>> the conclusions reached are real eye openers. The NTSB site is located at
>> http://www.ntsb.gov. and is well worth browsing thru.
>>
>> DougMel(at)aol.com
>> RV6 or 6A, working on RHS elevator
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: RV pitch trim vernier & |
Hi Bill,
If you can do an archive search on the trim slack, about a year ago there
was a long string (what you're looking for) and I believe the fix was
something like, put in electric trim.
Eric Henson
>>>>Brian, I appreciate your reply on the allowable freeplay on the trim
tab.
Obviously, the cable assembly sold by Van's is the culprit. Do they
monitor
this forum? Has anyone challenged this excessive slop in their cable? If
not, I will.<<<<
Bill Orcutt
RV-6A
Best
BillO(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details |
>I'm at the point of cutting the plexi for my 6A tip-up canopy (gasp,
tremble,>swallow hard). Before I do, I want to get (at least) one thing
straight.> The canopy must transition from sitting atop (outside, if you
will) the fwd>canopy skin to a position inside(below) this same skin as it
wraps around the>sides of the canopy frame. (i.e., the plexi must cross the
plane of the>aluminum skin at some point in order to fit in the groove on
the side pieces>of the frame, since the aluminum skin becomes the outside of
that groove at>the sides, yet sits below and inside the plexi up front over
the instrument>panel). Is that clear as mud?? Those of you who have
completed this phase>will know what I mean.
>
> or the skin must be>dog-eared inward at the corner to lie flush with the
canopy frame side pcs>and let the plexi pass over at that spot. Any of the
above would then need>to be concealed with the figerglass fairing strip.
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill; The dog eared inward is the way I went. The plex. is on top until
that point, which is at the rear edge of the forward skin, and really, it
stays on top (the outside until covered with the side skin) back behind
there. The front skin I bent inwards to fit as close as possible to the
canopy side frame that has the indentation along the top. The plex. fits in
the indentation and then the side skin fits over that. It was a little
tricky getting that blend there, but without the fiberglass fairing, which I
did not use, it worked out fine in the end.
The reason I did not use Vans fiber. fairing, They told me at the time it
was as difficult fairing it in as it was to just start my own fiber.glass
filling.
If I didn't make it clear, let me know.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Back Riveting -Wing Skins |
I back rivetted the top surface of the leading edge of my left wing and it
turned out great - much better than my right wing that I did in the
traditional cradle method. I clecoed the top leading edge to the spar to be
sure everything was properly aligned, and then removed the clecos from the
bottom surface so that I could lift it up to back rivet. After the top was
back rivetted, I clecoed the bottom surface back on, removed the leading edge
from the spar and finished the rivetting job in the cradle. I used the extra
long back riveting set and dumb-bell bucking bar obtained from Bob Avery. I
started at the bottom and worked up, rivetting in the same basic sequence as
I drilled. The last couple of rivets near the leading edge were a little
touchy, but it worked ok. I recall that I left the forward most cleco on the
bottom side in place as long as I could to help keep the top skin tight to
the ribs. Bucking the bottom of the inboard rib was also a little tight, but
my hands were small enough to get it done. Would I do it this way again?
You bet, the result is worth it.
Dick Flunker - RV-6A
Wings Done! (OK, so I had George Orndorff seal my tanks, but the job he did
was worth it too!!) Starting Fuse Tomorrow!
---------------------
From: navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com (Bob Skinner)
Date: 96-09-12 18:14:47 EDT
>I'm ready to begin riveting my leading edge wing skins. I've heard that
back
>riveting is a good option. It would seem that you can't back rivet if you
put
>the leading edge skin in the jig cradle for riveting. I would assume that
you
>leave the skin attached to the ribs on the main spar when back riveting. Is
>this so? Do you usually back rivet the top leading edge skin and remove the
>skin and put in the jig cradle to finish riveting the bottom of the leading
edge
>skin with a bucking bar. My thinking of this process may be a mess. Would
>appreciate someone straighting me out.
>Best regards Ron Caldwell - RV6A (N655RV - Reserved)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
Ron, The main skins, not the leading edge & fuel tank are what is back
riveted. I've never heard of anyone trying to backrivet the LE. However,
it sure would be neat if someone would try it and report back to us:) I
speculated on the list some time ago about doing this and when I get to that
point on my wing construction, I'll check it out for myself. I thought it
might be possible to leave the LE clecoed to the front spar and all of the
ribs and, starting at the bottom of the ribs, start back riveting and work
toward the nose as far as you can go. The idea didn't seem to generate much
discussion on the list and it may not be worht the risk to a lot of builders.
They do make a right angle rivet gun, which is quite expensive. Also,
there is a very short barreled, straight rivet gun that uses a special,
short rivet set that looks as though it might fit inside the LE and tank
while it is off the airplane and in the craddle. It's priced at $ 320.00
from U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply.
On the main skins, back riveting seems to work very well. I didn't do
this on my first RV but bought the back riveting stuff for my second. I
helped a RV-6 builder in CO back rivet his wings and it worked out well and
I sure intend to do my main skins on my second RV. There are also a lot of
places on the fuselage that back riveting will work. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Gregory Dallas Roberts wrote:
>
> I would have to say that the G meter being stuck at 9.2 g's would have to
> mean that a 9.2g force from either acceleration or deceleration would have
> to be exerted on the meter until the meter was catastrophically impacted in
> such a way that the device locked in that exact indicated position. IMHO I
> would have to say that a 9.2g force created from a control input would not
> "lock" the meter in that precise position. In addition, I don't believe that
> the forces generated by a nasty in-flight break-up would lock this guy in
> position either. I would say that the forces required for such a thing to
> happen would be much more likely to occur from the rapid deceleration of the
> device as it impacted the ground or another object of large mass. Now if a
> person were doing a hard pull-up into a cliff or something obvious like that
> it might be plausible. Sounded good though.
>
If you have used a G-Meter then you understand that they have three
needles one for +G one for -G and one that locks at either the highest
positive or lowest negative G reached during a maneuver.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why the air/oil separator? |
This recent discussion about the air-oil separators has got
>me wondering. It hadn't occured to me to put on in my 6A. Now I'm
>thinking - should I? My understanding - from this thread - is that
>the purpose is to catch oil from the breather line so it won't junk
>up the bottom of the plane. Is there another reason?
>Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com
You're right, Cheryl. You might not need it and it would be easy enough to
add later. You could always try just dumping the "air" on to an exhaust pipe
and see how you get along. I put an oil/air separator on my six and the
bottom of the fuse stays pretty clean. My separator came from a salvage
yard and was out of a Cessna. Don't forget to put a "breather hole" in the
crankcase line to prevent pressure build up in case the outlet freezes (not
likely IMO, but considered a good practice).
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details |
>I'm at the point of cutting the plexi for my 6A tip-up canopy (gasp, tremble,
>swallow hard). Before I do, I want to get (at least) one thing straight.
> The canopy must transition from sitting atop (outside, if you will) the fwd
>canopy skin to a position inside(below) this same skin as it wraps around the
>sides of the canopy frame. (i.e., the plexi must cross the plane of the
>aluminum skin at some point in order to fit in the groove on the side pieces
>of the frame, since the aluminum skin becomes the outside of that groove at
>the sides, yet sits below and inside the plexi up front over the instrument
>panel). Is that clear as mud?? Those of you who have completed this phase
>will know what I mean. Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill, I mashed the foward canopy skin in towards the side of the fwd canopy
frame just ahead of where the canopy side skins are. If I remember
correctly, I used flush sets in my pneumatic squeezer to accomplish this.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
Hmmm. Geostationary satellites are over the equator, and up at roughly
27000 miles. What orbital height are the rest of the satellites at? I
wonder how that would effect accuracy.
Keith S. Barr
=====================================
GPS satellites have a 12 hour orbit. Not knowing orbital mechanics - or even
a good A&P, I won't assume that they are at 1/2 the altitude of geo-sync (a
24 hour orbit). However, they are a heck of a lot lower. And that's the
problem with geo-sync. Because of the great distance the signal strength is
abysmal. Besides, the most populace part of Australia is 30-45 deg from the
equator. Not good geometry.
Maybe the United Nations should coordinate a Civilian GPS system funded by
all of the users of the world. (note, I said "users"). The horrendously
costly learning curve has already been paid for by the military so
commercial start-up costs should be much cheaper. Let the military have
their own system. Problem is you know many countries will be fearful of
security (you heard the scenario...an auto pilot, GPS guided C-172 homing in
on... However, when the politicians figure out a "user" TAX!!...well I
digress.
Elon
ormsby(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details |
aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
> < As I see it, one of 3 things must happen: the skin must be notched or the
> canopy must be notched where the two pcs cross over, or the skin must be
> dog-eared inward at the corner to lie flush with the canopy frame side pcs
> and let the plexi pass over at that spot. >>snipcall Brian Moentenich (503) 666-7518,
he just got thru solving this
problem
> The photos are of the prototype parts which only vaguely resemble the parts
> before me. Vintage Van's documentation, for sure. Boy, if they had *me* to
> do their manuals, I'd make sure they were thorough and we could *all*
> understand everything . Well, they haven't offered me the job, so that's
> everyone's loss, and Frank Justice will just have to fill in for me :-)
>
><| Date: | Sep 14, 1996 |
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
John Ammeter wrote:
>
>
> >If you have used a G-Meter then you understand that they have three
> >needles one for +G one for -G and one that locks at either the highest
> >positive or lowest negative G reached during a maneuver.
> >
> >--
> >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> >jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
> >
> >
> >
> I thought one needle locked at the strongest +G position, one needle locked
> at the strongest -G position and the last needle indicated the present G
> condition.
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
> 3233 NE 95th St
> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> First flight August 1990
Correction:
John is right in his description, I got my needles backwards, I took my
G-Meter out when I put in my Navaid so had not looked at it for a while.
--
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
Jerry Springer wrote:
> If you have used a G-Meter then you understand that they have three
> needles one for +G one for -G and one that locks at either the highest
> positive or lowest negative G reached during a maneuver.
Yes --three needles --BUT
One needle shows current g loading.
Another locks in the highest positive g reading, and
Another locks in the highest negative g reading
The last two can be reset to the 1g reading by pressing a button.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS- Stainless Steel Tape vs UHMW tape |
>I'm planning to us the semi-clear tape on my plane but I don't understand
>why we can't apply the tape to the underside of the top wing skin. I think
>this would work just as well and it would be out of site.
The paint on the flap LE would still get scratched by dirt caught under the
edge of the wing skin.
B Skinner posted the phone # for the tape. It was his discovery in the first
place, BTW.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | slider skirt fit @ longeron |
>It's too late for my flaps, which have the SS tape over primer, and will be
>masked off for painting, but the canopy side skins could use this treatment,
>as someone suggested earlier, since I plan to let them lap over the fuselage
>sides a fraction of an inch.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
The skirt overlap (at the longerons) on the -6 slider is something I'd like
to hear more about, from those who've done it. It looks to me that the fuse
side profile will tend to stretch the front edge of the skin out at about
mid-point of the canopy travel.
My friend has the skins butted, and any leaks are not noticeable, (at least
here in the TX summer, when all air leaks are welcome).
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
The Tolle exhaust system is junk. They all crack at the #4 flange, mine after
about 20 hrs, and a friends on the second flight. It seems that the #4 pipe
takes all the weight and vibration of the whole system. 400 hrs later I think
I have worked the bugs out of mine by doubling up the #4 flange and bracing
the hell out of the whole system. (to the engine) I havn't had any problems
in about 200 hrs. Several friends are running the Vetterman system and it is
far superior, quieter and much better built, at about the same cost. I don,t
think Allen Tolle is still making his systems, but there are quite a few of
them out there since he was the only source of RV exhausts for a quite a few
years. Maybe Santa will stuff a Vetterman down my chimney.
Bill Mahoney
RV-6
N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's quote? |
Hi Gang,
Am away from home and would like Van's e-mail address. Can someone zap it to
me??
Thanks. Mal rvbildr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Dallas Roberts <groberts(at)telcomplus.com> |
There are three needles on my g meter too and I think you may have missed
the point. Final indication of the meter is either when the last force is
imposed on the meter (impact with mother earth) or, if the manuever
indication is to be believed, the g meter would have to be catostrophically
locked in place where it could not respond to the impact with the ground.
>John Ammeter wrote:
>>
>>
>> >If you have used a G-Meter then you understand that they have three
>> >needles one for +G one for -G and one that locks at either the highest
>> >positive or lowest negative G reached during a maneuver.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>> >jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> I thought one needle locked at the strongest +G position, one needle locked
>> at the strongest -G position and the last needle indicated the present G
>> condition.
>>
>> John Ammeter
>> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>> 3233 NE 95th St
>> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>> RV-6 N16JA
>> First flight August 1990
>
>Correction:
>John is right in his description, I got my needles backwards, I took my
>G-Meter out when I put in my Navaid so had not looked at it for a while.
>--
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's quote? |
>Hi Gang,
>Am away from home and would like Van's e-mail address. Can someone zap it to
>me??
>Thanks. Mal rvbildr(at)aol.com
>
>
76455.1602(at)compuserve.com
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Hired gun needed |
I'm looking for a little help riveting the top skins on my wings.
I'm located in the south SF bay area (Milpitas). I'm willing to
trade labor, or pay the going rate to an *experienced* rivet-banger.
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
(408)262-0415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure (chatter) |
<< I believe that Larry Vetterman thinks the same thing, if I remember the
conversation I had with Larry, correctly. Boy, that Vetterman SS cross-over
is a thing of beauty, isn't it?
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com >>
That sure is the truth. As an aside, I was out at the airport (where ELSE
would I be?) a few weeks ago when -6 taxied by my hangar heading toward the
pumps. So I sauntered over there and started talking the the friendly owner
and his charming wife. Turned out to be Larry Vetterman on his way back from
the Homecoming. Small world.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 150 hp to 160 hp upgrade |
There are two things to consider when modifying the **-320 series engines. I
paid $7,840.00 to learn this. My engine was tagged IO320B1A, and I was
assured it was. I put 430 hrs on it, on top of 568 sfreman. It started to
foul plugs badly on 1 and 3 cyl.s, so I pulled them to have them checked out.
By the time the engine was back on the plane, it would suffice to say the
"case" was the only thing that was good. IMHO, put out the cash for a new
engine; the chances are real good you will end up like me and a lot of others
with an equal amount of money in a "bargain" engine. I bought my engine 6
years ago for $5300.00, spent $7840.00 for a MOH this year, and new engines
from Van were $14,000.00 at the time.
1) The cylinders for the 160 are tapered. I highly recommend using these
cyl.'s when doing a 160 hp. engine. Even in new, tight conditions, I am
getting more power than I ever did with the straight cyl.s that were in my
engine (which were supposed to be tapered).
2) If you are doing this to an -E series engine,such as an 0320E2D, bear in
mind that the front main bearings are the same as the 0-290 engine and are
not as strong as the factory 160 hp. engines. The people that did my
overhaul, Premier Aircraft Engines in Troutdale, OR ( who are engine gods in
my view), and also an author that I forget, do not recommend using 160 hp
pistons on these engines because of the higher pressures. And if you are
going with a CS prop, there is even more reason.
I'm not on the list, so if you have any Q., email to me.
Jim Anglin, RV6 N14JA, First flight 4/91
rv14ja(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | What does UHMW stand for |
I've noticed several "UHMW" parts in my kit, and I've followed the
discussion of UHMW tape with interest. What does UHMW stand for, anyway?
Another topic: It seems to take me FOREVER to accomplish seemingly simple
tasks on my plane. I'll bet I've spent nearly 15 hours getting the FL606
bracket fabricated, primed, and installed (screw up the rivet, drill the
rivet out, dent the aluminum, sand the dent out, prime the aluminum,
install a new rivet, etc, etc). Sound familiar?
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hired gun needed |
Chris Ruble wrote:
> I'm looking for a little help riveting the top skins on my wings.
> I'm located in the south SF bay area (Milpitas). I'm willing to
> trade labor, or pay the going rate to an *experienced* rivet-banger.
Hey, Chris! I used to live in Fremont, and would love to come back for
a spell. Can you afford air-fare? :)
PatK - RV-6A - Left aileron at the painter; flap being assembled
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
>The Tolle exhaust system is junk. They all crack at the #4 flange, mine after
>about 20 hrs, and a friends on the second flight. It seems that the #4 pipe
>takes all the weight and vibration of the whole system. 400 hrs later I think
>I have worked the bugs out of mine by doubling up the #4 flange and bracing
>the hell out of the whole system. (to the engine) I havn't had any problems
>in about 200 hrs. Several friends are running the Vetterman system and it is
>far superior, quieter and much better built, at about the same cost. I don,t
>think Allen Tolle is still making his systems, but there are quite a few of
>them out there since he was the only source of RV exhausts for a quite a few
>years.
Maybe Santa will stuff a Vetterman down my chimney.
>Bill Mahoney RV-6 N747W
I don't think Larry would fit:) I was pretty miffed after I had bought my
Tolle system and found out that several "in the know RV people" knew of the
big shortcomings of this system and yet, nothing was said. The true facts
were not widely known and this resulted in the installation of a pretty darn
un-airworthy exhaust system on a lot of airplanes. I considered it a
dangerous system. Hot exhaust gases blowing on anything in the engine
compartment is not a good thing. The final straw came for me at S&F when a
RV-4 pilot from California taxied back in after the system let go during run
up. I was around his airplane as he was removing the system and he was not
a happy camper. From the bits of conversation I picked up he'd known of the
problems with this system and had yet to change over to something airworthy.
I sold the brand new Tolle system at a pretty good loss, but it was a good
trade as far as I was concerned when you consider the alternative. (And
yes, the purchaser was very much aware of the short comings of this system
but it was priced right and he figured he could re-work the system and have
something acceptable. I was so mad, I never wanted to see it again, even if
it could have been made to work.)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details |
writes:
<< the skin must be notched or the
canopy must be notched where the two pcs cross over >>
Yes, and it's a large notch too! Don't know why Van doesn't spell that out,
but as you notch away you will see that's the way it was meant to be.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Has anyone used a automotive shop for painting there planes and if so
which ones (assuming national chains) and how much did it cost, any
problems???
Thanks
Rick (RV6A wings)
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: What does UHMW stand for |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> I've noticed several "UHMW" parts in my kit, and I've followed the
> discussion of UHMW tape with interest. What does UHMW stand for, anyway?
>
> Another topic: It seems to take me FOREVER to accomplish seemingly simple
> tasks on my plane. I'll bet I've spent nearly 15 hours getting the FL606
> bracket fabricated, primed, and installed (screw up the rivet, drill the
> rivet out, dent the aluminum, sand the dent out, prime the aluminum,
> install a new rivet, etc, etc). Sound familiar?
>
> Tim
>
> -------------------------------
> Capt Tim Lewis
> Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
> lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
> or capntim(at)aol.com
> COML ASEL IA
> RV-6AQ #60023
Doing that part right now Tim... Question to all... I am little
confused about where the dimensions are or how to correctly understand
the triming of the root end of the bottm skin. Any thoughts would
help..
Rick
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hired gun needed |
Chris-
Tell me when and I'll pop over.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What does UHMW stand for |
<< I've noticed several "UHMW" parts in my kit, and I've followed the
discussion of UHMW tape with interest. What does UHMW stand for, anyway?
>>
Ultra High Molecular Weight (a type of high density polyethylene).
-GV
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
| Subject: | Part Location Help |
I am building an RV 6A with sliding canopy.
I can't find the use or location on the drawings of a part found in bag
674. There are two pieces of aluminum described by the part list as
F625B which are AS3-063 1 1/2 x 4. What are they and on what drawing can
they be found?
Dale Lamport
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Working on Fuselage
cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
writes:
>I don't think Larry would fit:) I was pretty miffed after I had bought
my
>Tolle system and found out that several "in the know RV people" knew of
the
>big shortcomings of this system and yet, nothing was said. The true
facts
>were not widely known and this resulted in the installation of a pretty
darn
>un-airworthy exhaust system on a lot of airplanes. I considered it a
>dangerous system. Hot exhaust gases blowing on anything in the engine
>compartment is not a good thing. The final straw came for me at S&F
when a
>RV-4 pilot from California taxied back in after the system let go during
run
>up. I was around his airplane as he was removing the system and he was
not
>a happy camper. From the bits of conversation I picked up he'd known of
the
>problems with this system and had yet to change over to something
airworthy.
> I sold the brand new Tolle system at a pretty good loss, but it was a
good
>trade as far as I was concerned when you consider the alternative. (And
>yes, the purchaser was very much aware of the short comings of this
system
>but it was priced right and he figured he could re-work the system and
have
>something acceptable. I was so mad, I never wanted to see it again,
even if
>it could have been made to work.)
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Bob:
I have an Alen Tolle system That crackes Twice in the first 20 Hr
also. I had a top Knotch welder look at it and "fix" it so it wouldn't
break again. He put in wedges off the #4 cylinder flange and rewelded
the whole thing with argon gas inside the pipes. (He said that most of
the problems were due to the poor welding job.) That, coupled with the
proper bracing to the engine to control vibration, and I haven't had any
more problems in almost 800 Hr of use.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-6 tip-up canopy cutting |
Looking back, I guess I was doomed before I picked up the cutoff wheel. I
never knew what hit me til it was all over...
I was going to be oh, so careful, too. Measure three times and cut once, as
they say. But now I can write a sequel to Ken's "Traps in Cowl Land."
If you haven't begun the successive-trimming butchering of YOUR canopy yet,
let me warn you. Don't make the assumption I did. The beautifully-molded
compound curve in the front of the canopy is the scrap; the simple curve in
the rear is the part you want to save, and measure your initial trim
distances from. Don't ask why, it just is. Maybe they did it to torment
you. I can attest to one thing: if the canopy blank is carefully trimmed
along the front mold line and then measured back the suggested distance, it
will indeed look like a good fit in the making. You cannot tell much at this
point, since the canopy must sit atop the fwd fuselage skin in the rear, but
ultimately must be trimmed to fit beneath it. Because if the varying top
curvature, the canopy will not lay properly atop the rollover structure
without much of the front plexi trimmed away (takes forever in small passes)
and by the time you do that (or at least by the time I did that)- voila! the
rear of the plexi has moved forward as well as upward as the front is nibbled
away. Very anguishing to watch this happen and be helpless to stop it. Now
your canopy is lined up (no more vertical gap in the back) but the aft edge
is sitting 3" in front of the fwd fuselage (turtledeck) skin!!! A permanently
open sun roof! How neat! Know what time it is now? Time for a new skin,
one you can trim to match the remaining plexi and fashion your new, much
smaller rear window!
Fear not; Airparts will sell you a suitable 48x72 piece for around 50 bucks,
and not only will the service be faster than Van's but the crating charge
will not double the cost of the order! Next week I learn to drill off a skin
and use it as a template for a new one. The missing plexi I need is in the
scrap pile, gone on the initial trimming, and in retrospect looks like it
would have fit the turtledeck very well indeed. :-(
Why not leave the rear a bit long at first? It will hit the baggage bulkhead
in the rear unless trimmed before first fitting; the mistake I made was to
assume the front mold flange was the initial starting point. If I had it to
do over again, I would trim the rear flange conservatively and make the first
big chop in the front, in that beautiful sensuous compound curve that your
instincts tell you is to be conserved at all costs- WRONG! Done properly,
you will end up cutting much more of the front away than the rear. At least
I think this is so. I haven't done a canopy properly yet, so I'm
speculating.
So, next time I want to lighten the aeroplane and shift the c.g. forward, I
think I'll leave off an elevator, instead. ;-)
Thanks to all who responded to my earlier canopy querry, but now I've got
bigger concerns.
Regards, all.
Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip-up canopy cutting |
>If you haven't begun the successive-trimming butchering of YOUR canopy yet,
>let me warn you. Don't make the assumption I did. The beautifully-molded
>compound curve in the front of the canopy is the scrap; the simple curve in
>the rear is the part you want to save, and measure your initial trim
>distances from. Don't ask why, it just is. Maybe they did it to torment
>you. I can attest to one thing: if the canopy blank is carefully trimmed
>along the front mold line and then measured back the suggested distance, it
>will indeed look like a good fit in the making. You cannot tell much at this
>point, since the canopy must sit atop the fwd fuselage skin in the rear, but
>ultimately must be trimmed to fit beneath it. Because if the varying top
>curvature, the canopy will not lay properly atop the rollover structure
>without much of the front plexi trimmed away (takes forever in small passes)
>and by the time you do that (or at least by the time I did that)- voila! the
>rear of the plexi has moved forward as well as upward as the front is nibbled
>away. Very anguishing to watch this happen and be helpless to stop it. Now
>your canopy is lined up (no more vertical gap in the back) but the aft edge
>is sitting 3" in front of the fwd fuselage (turtledeck) skin!!! A permanently
>open sun roof! How neat! Know what time it is now? Time for a new skin,
>one you can trim to match the remaining plexi and fashion your new, much
>smaller rear window!
>
>Regards, all.
>Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill, Before dirlling your skin off, it might be worth a call to Van's or
their canopy manufacturer to see if they: 1. Have a damaged canopy from
which the rear part could be slavaged or 2. Have them lay up a rear portion
on their mold. This is assuming that the old mold is still around as I'm
certain that the newer canopies are "free blown" and not molded. Whatever,
maybe a couple of phone calls can save you a little work and allow you to
"shed a little light" into your baggage compartment.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Wheel Pants |
I just found out yesterday that Klaus Savier has wheel pants available for
both the 5x5 tires and the lamb tires. They appear to be lighter than Van's
wheel pants. Anyway, if you have any interest in this, call Klaus at (805)
933-3299.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin) |
Matt,
The following are a few of things that I found to be worth their
wieght in Piasters.
Cordless screwdriver with deburing cutter (Avery #59010)
Avoid "Limp wristed psycho-builder syndrome"
1" bench type belt sander
Great for rounding edges & removing rough edges.
Small band saw.
Hacksaws aren't much fun.
Clamps...Get a few of several different kinds. It always seems
that you need one that's just a little bigger or smaller. As you
use them you'll see which ones you'll want to get more of.
Good luck with the tool hunt!
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Building wings
Tallahassee, FL
hbenjamin(at)gnn.com
>Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
>what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
>anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
>
>I don't know what's coming up, aside from the videos, and I'm
>not real sure what components I want in my Big Tool Kit (2x
>gun? 3x gun? But the day is coming when I'll start-to-get-started
>and I'd hate to get to some point when things are moving along
>nicely and discover that I could be/should be doing things better,
>easier, or faster if only I'd bought the Cleco Pouch or the Jig
>Fixture Brackets or something.
>
>What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
>to Avery, in other words?
>
>Mark D Hiatt
>Aviation Forum Manager,
>The Microsoft Network.
>
>
>--
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Cables |
>After attaching my rudder pedal cables to the pedals and
>testing them through their range of motion which is governed
>by the 35 degree rudder travel I found that the front
>attachment (F6121) of my rudder cables "bump" the plastic
>grommet in my F602 bulkhead. My first thought was to wrap a
>piece of small dia. plastic tubing around the cable and the
>attachment so it travels smoothly over the grommet in F-602.
>
>any other suggestions would be welcome.
>
>chet razer: crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
>
>When you attach the rudder, then the stops which lilit the rudder movement,
you find you do not need that much movemtn of the pedals, I think it it
about 4 inches of movement total, that is 2 inches each way from the centre
position.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Dallas Roberts <groberts(at)telcomplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
I have a couple of ideas about the failing exhaust systems that I would like
to share.
It sounds like what is happening is high cycle fatigue if the pipe(s) and
the point of failure is the pivot point of the moving mass. A couple of
things to keep in mind for a problem like this: The natural frequency of the
pipe(s) is probably in the same range as the frequency of the exciting
force(eg. engine, prop and other moving objects)or it could be a 2nd, 3rd,
4th, and so on, order harmonic of the exciting force. This will account for
why there are varying failure times in relation to the same design on a
different airplane, as there are differences in the rpm and engine types and
prop types. This means there are a couple of ways to stop this problem as
follows. 1) change the mass of the pipe(s) to change it's natural frequency.
2) determine the frequency range and node locations (if harmonics are
involved) and brace at the node(s) to reduce the effects of the vibration by
dampening and stifening. 3) determine at what rpm the damaging frequency
occurs and avoid prolonged running at that setting thereby avoiding exciting
the pipe(s).
If you want to know what the natural frequency of your exhaust sytem really
is it's a matter of placing an accelerometer on the system with the engine
off and taking a small deadblow hammer and rapping the pipe. A peak will
occur indicating the natural frequency. With that information in hand one
can simply do the math to learn about what frequencies could be exciting the
system. It's not really as difficult as it sounds and really the people who
manufacture these systems should study there design in this way and design
for success BEFORE they ever sell the first system. groberts(at)telcomplus.com
>
> writes:
>>I don't think Larry would fit:) I was pretty miffed after I had bought
>my
>>Tolle system and found out that several "in the know RV people" knew of
>the
>>big shortcomings of this system and yet, nothing was said. The true
>facts
>>were not widely known and this resulted in the installation of a pretty
>darn
>>un-airworthy exhaust system on a lot of airplanes. I considered it a
>>dangerous system. Hot exhaust gases blowing on anything in the engine
>>compartment is not a good thing. The final straw came for me at S&F
>when a
>>RV-4 pilot from California taxied back in after the system let go during
>run
>>up. I was around his airplane as he was removing the system and he was
>not
>>a happy camper. From the bits of conversation I picked up he'd known of
>the
>>problems with this system and had yet to change over to something
>airworthy.
>> I sold the brand new Tolle system at a pretty good loss, but it was a
>good
>>trade as far as I was concerned when you consider the alternative. (And
>>yes, the purchaser was very much aware of the short comings of this
>system
>>but it was priced right and he figured he could re-work the system and
>have
>>something acceptable. I was so mad, I never wanted to see it again,
>even if
>>it could have been made to work.)
>>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>
>Bob:
> I have an Alen Tolle system That crackes Twice in the first 20 Hr
>also. I had a top Knotch welder look at it and "fix" it so it wouldn't
>break again. He put in wedges off the #4 cylinder flange and rewelded
>the whole thing with argon gas inside the pipes. (He said that most of
>the problems were due to the poor welding job.) That, coupled with the
>proper bracing to the engine to control vibration, and I haven't had any
>more problems in almost 800 Hr of use.
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Drawing center lines |
I just got done using a nifty little tool that I didn't know Avery offered.
The owner of the Glastar that I'm helping to build bought an edge marker
block, page 75 of Avery's 1996 catalog, price $6.00. I haven't looked at
tool catalogs for awhile as I thought I had all of the tools I'd ever need.
(My wife has told me this) This little marker block works very well in
drawing straight lines down ribs & spars and you can't beat the price. I'll
have to buy one of my own when I get back to working on the RV.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Speaking of canopy installation, I just sent the October issue of Van's Air
Force, Tri-State Wing newsletter off to the printers. In this special 12
page issue, is a four page article entitled, CANOPY, OH MY CANOPY, PART DEUX,
that includes seven pictures and a complete description of how I was able to
fit my slider canopy by myself without any help except to put the canopy on
the frame a couple of times. It turned out to be one of the easiest parts of
the project because I came up with a better way to do it. I did not follow
the directions!!! The canopy fits perfectly with no gaps anywhere. It was a
piece of cake. There is also an article with two pictures and a sketch of a
complete rudder trim system that will keep your cables taut and provide for
rudder trim at all speeds, plus lots of other good tips, hints, tools, etc.
There is no local news in my newsletter. It is dedicated to helping you
build your RV faster and easier while avoiding the mistakes that I and others
have made. I have nearly 300 subscribers all over the world and by word of
mouth recomendations, get two to three new subscribers each week. Even Van's
recommended it in the last issue of the RVator. If you would like to get a
copy of this issue along with the rest of the 1996 back issues, send $5. for
a subscription to the address below. If you E-mail me your address, I will
send the back issues now and they can cross your check in the snail mail. I
will send the October issue when I get it back from the printer.
RV-6A completed and ready for paint.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703
FAX (314) 447-8803
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Main skin overlap. |
James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>I noticed that the builder had used a unique approach where the inboard &
>outboard
>top skins overlap. I wonder how unique this is.
I did this on my wings. I learned this trick from an EAA Tech Counselor
who did it on his wings.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternate Wheel Pants & root fairings supplier |
>I just found out yesterday that Klaus Savier has wheel pants available for
>both the 5x5 tires and the lamb tires. They appear to be lighter than Van's
>wheel pants. Anyway, if you have any interest in this, call Klaus at (805)
>933-3299.
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
Hi all:
Sam James sells a much higher quality set of pants- the one set of Klaus's I
saw were worse the the Van's two pc, and those are BAD. Could be the set I
saw slipped thru QC, but...
Tom Whelan (Bounty Hunter RV-4), Dave Anders (230+ mph RV-4) and others are
using Sam's pants on their birds. Unfortunately, I already had a different
style (Nemisis copies) on my bird when I found out about these.
2 pc pants, $150 plus shipping from FL
James Aircraft
941-675-4493
Ask for a brochure with pics of his root fairings, too. These are fiberglass
compound curve things that slip onto the -4 or the -6, eliminating all that
fussing with the other two styles supplied by the factory.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMusgrave(at)swri.edu |
| Subject: | What does UHMW stand for |
Tim Lewis Wrote:
|
| I've noticed several "UHMW" parts in my kit, and I've followed the
| discussion of UHMW tape with interest. What does UHMW stand for,
| anyway?
|
Hi Tim. Stands for "ultra high molecular weight", usually used with
polyethylene, so you may see UHMW PE. Just means it's high-strength and
stiffness PE, compared to LMW PE like
coffee can lids. The polymer gurus are continually improving
the characteristics of plastics.
Dave Musgrave, Manager, Product Design
Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas
(210) 522-3321 Fax (210) 522-5606
DMusgrave(at)SwRI.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Report of incident |
I would like to report two items to the list. I have RV-4 kit #3933
which was first flown in April 96 and currently has 85 hrs.
1 - At about 60 hours I had the cowl off doing some minor maintaince. I
happened to notice two bends in the firewall, about one inch above the
lower engine mount attach points, both on the corners of the firewall,
the 90 degree bend in this area is for the rudder peddles to move freely.
A friend and I inspected the motor mount, rivets, weldments inside,
longerons and could find nothing unusual. I called Van and talked to Tom
Green about it. He indicated that this has been reported before on
RV-4's with the longer gear legs and that he feels it is some sort of
stress relief which is taking place and that the area should be
re-inspected during annual. I had the cowl off at 85 hours adding break
fluid to the reservoir (sp?)(see below) and the area seems to be the same.
I don't believe this was apparent during my 50 hour inspection as I
changed the oil at that time and believe I would have noticed it. I don't
remember any landing hard enough to be suspecious. I will continue to
monitor the areas every time I have the cowl off.
2 - Just after landing 9/15/96 my left break peddle "went to the floor".
I was able to safely taxi to the ramp and pulled the wheel pant. Break
fluid was dripping on the left wheel. Upon inspection I discovered the AN
fitting that attaches the AL break line to the 90deg elbow was finger
loose. After re-tightening it the breaks functioned normally. When I got
back home I checked the reservoir and found it to be about 3/4 low on
fluid, I filled it back up, checked #1 above, replaced the cowl, pulled
the other wheel pant and checked the other break (it was ok but I could
tighten the fitting about 1/8 turn) and declared the A/C airworthy for
the Roswell fly-in next weekend!
If anyone has any comments on either incident (good or bad) I will
certainly welcome them.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
>From Gregory Dallas Roberts <telcomplus.com!groberts, on 9/14/96 8:29 AM:
>There are three needles on my g meter too and I think you may have missed
>the point. Final indication of the meter is either when the last force is
>imposed on the meter (impact with mother earth) or, if the manuever
>indication is to be believed, the g meter would have to be
catostrophically
>locked in place where it could not respond to the impact with the ground.
A couple of things here, and maybe we can lay this issue to rest...
I've been an accident investigator on two Air Force A-10 accidents. In
each case, we were able to ascertain the G forces PRIOR to impact by
obtaining "capture marks" on the G meters. As Jerry Springer explained,
the needle makes a small but definite mark on the guage on impact with the
ground. In the case of the G meter, we could tell the maximum positive and
negative Gs the pilots had pulled by those marks. Mr. Roberts is incorrect
in his statement that ground impact will cause the final readings on the G
meter. The impact marks on the G meter will show the current G as the
aircraft hits the ground. The needle is "captured" before it can actually
move to show impact forces. An aircraft hitting the ground in a situation
as described in the RV-3 accident would most likely impact with more than
9.2 Gs, more likely 30-40 Gs. Bottom line: you don't look at the
needles...you look at the marks the needles left in the face of the guage.
Another issue. In the A-10 and most, if not all, jet fighters, we have two
positive G limits: symmetrical and asymmetrical Gs. Our symmetrical limit
is 7.33 positive Gs; asymmetrical limit is 5.0 Gs. A symmetrical G is one
where the acceleration is essentially through the top of the aircraft,
either straight and level or in a steady-state turn. An asymmetrical G is
one where the aircraft is rolling; not necessarily turning, but in the act
of rolling. (You aero engineers can probably explain this better.) In the
RV-3 situation, where the pilot was in a hard left roll, the right wing was
no doubt pulling more Gs than the left. The pilot may not have felt like
he was over-pulling, but the aircraft sure felt it!
It's interesting we don't hear about symmetrical and asymmetrical Gs in the
civilian world (at least I haven't). IMHO, it's important to consider that,
while rolling, the G meter might say "9 Gs" but the outside wing is
pulling 11 or more.
Let's be careful out there!
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Cables |
<< After attaching my rudder pedal cables to the pedals and
testing them through their range of motion which is governed
by the 35 degree rudder travel I found that the front
attachment (F6121) of my rudder cables "bump" the plastic
grommet in my F602 bulkhead. My first thought was to wrap a
piece of small dia. plastic tubing around the cable and the
attachment so it travels smoothly over the grommet in F-602. >>
Mine does the same thing but it is only a problem on the right side. When
ever I make a hard right turn while taxiing, the snap bushing will pop out of
place. I have been meaning (to busy flying) to silicone the bushing in place
and hopfully this will do the trick. If anybody else has a better idea I
would be glad to hear it.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report of incident |
oops, that's brake fluid!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Dan Boudro wrote:
> I would like to report two items to the list. I have RV-4 kit #3933
> which was first flown in April 96 and currently has 85 hrs.
>
> 1 - At about 60 hours I had the cowl off doing some minor maintaince. I
> happened to notice two bends in the firewall, about one inch above the
> lower engine mount attach points, both on the corners of the firewall,
> the 90 degree bend in this area is for the rudder peddles to move freely.
> A friend and I inspected the motor mount, rivets, weldments inside,
> longerons and could find nothing unusual. I called Van and talked to Tom
> Green about it. He indicated that this has been reported before on
> RV-4's with the longer gear legs and that he feels it is some sort of
> stress relief which is taking place and that the area should be
> re-inspected during annual. I had the cowl off at 85 hours adding break
> fluid to the reservoir (sp?)(see below) and the area seems to be the same.
> I don't believe this was apparent during my 50 hour inspection as I
> changed the oil at that time and believe I would have noticed it. I don't
> remember any landing hard enough to be suspecious. I will continue to
> monitor the areas every time I have the cowl off.
>
> 2 - Just after landing 9/15/96 my left break peddle "went to the floor".
> I was able to safely taxi to the ramp and pulled the wheel pant. Break
> fluid was dripping on the left wheel. Upon inspection I discovered the AN
> fitting that attaches the AL break line to the 90deg elbow was finger
> loose. After re-tightening it the breaks functioned normally. When I got
> back home I checked the reservoir and found it to be about 3/4 low on
> fluid, I filled it back up, checked #1 above, replaced the cowl, pulled
> the other wheel pant and checked the other break (it was ok but I could
> tighten the fitting about 1/8 turn) and declared the A/C airworthy for
> the Roswell fly-in next weekend!
>
> If anyone has any comments on either incident (good or bad) I will
> certainly welcome them.
>
> Dan Boudro
> RV-4 N9167Z
> Albuquerque, NM
> dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Report of incident |
<< At about 60 hours I had the cowl off doing some minor maintaince. I
happened to notice two bends in the firewall, about one inch above the
lower engine mount attach points, both on the corners of the firewall >>
Dan, my hangar mate has an RV-4 (standard gear legs) and the same thing
happened on his firewall. The aircraft is well built and there have been no
"hard" landings. He noticed his firewall problem at about 10 - 15 hours. He
now has over 300 hours on his aircraft and the bends have not changed at all.
I have not seen this on the other 2 RV-4 in my hangar or any other RV that
I've looked at. It seems to be a cosmetic problem (after the stress is
releived from the firewall that is).
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drawing center lines |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> ...I haven't looked at tool catalogs for awhile as I thought I had all of the
tools I'd ever need.
Bob,
You must be dead, that's the only way you can have every tool you need
and even then there has to be a work around.
don mack
rv-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< It's interesting we don't hear about symmetrical and asymmetrical Gs in
the
civilian world (at least I haven't). IMHO, it's important to consider that,
while rolling, the G meter might say "9 Gs" but the outside wing is
pulling 11 or more. >>
Good point! As our G-meters tend to be in the center of our aircraft they
are only showing us the AVERAGE force of gravity be exerted on the aircraft.
Personally, I get uncomfortable pulling more than 4.0 to 4.5 G's. Does
anybody pull more than this on a regular basis? If so, what the heck are you
doing? (I really do want to know).
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drawing center lines |
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Don Mack wrote:
> Bob Skinner wrote:
> >
> > ...I haven't looked at tool catalogs for awhile as I thought I had all of the
tools I'd ever need.
>
> Bob,
>
> You must be dead, that's the only way you can have every tool you need
> and even then there has to be a work around.
>
>
> don mack
> rv-6a
>
My dad always told me that the purchase of new tools was the reward for
doing any new project. The converse is also true, if you want a new tool
find a project to justify its purchase. Seems logical to me ;-)
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Award winning RV-6 |
Fellow RVers,
Although I only live 110 miles from York, NE, home of Craig Bairs award
winning RV-6, until the Sat. Fly-in at Harvard, NE I had never seen the
plane. We missed each other by one day at S&F. His six was awarded best
low wing at S&F this year and is featured in the Sept. issue of SA. It's a
beautiful airplane. The leather interior is really well done (and smells
good, too.)
You can read all about it in SA. One of the things that he'd done that I
thought was pretty clever was mentioned in the article. It's the joggle
that he put in the rear of the forward fuselage skin. The forward part of
the tip up nests into this joggle almost perfectly and because he used the
goose neck hinges, he said he has absolutely no air or water leaks. Of
course, this idea would not work if you choose to have the canopy side skins
overlap the fuselage. Craig's canopy butts against the fuselage side rails,
per plans.
I told Craig about the RV fly in at Burlington, CO on Sept. 28th and he
said he'd try to get there.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Cables |
I plan to slip some high-shrink (FIT 421 or 321) heat-shrink tubing over
the swage-to-cable intersection, long enough that it extends through the
bushing for the full travel. This should make the transition over the
"bump" smoother.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
> << After attaching my rudder pedal cables to the pedals and
> testing them through their range of motion which is governed
> by the 35 degree rudder travel I found that the front
> attachment (F6121) of my rudder cables "bump" the plastic
> grommet in my F602 bulkhead. My first thought was to wrap a
> piece of small dia. plastic tubing around the cable and the
> attachment so it travels smoothly over the grommet in F-602. >>
>
> Mine does the same thing but it is only a problem on the right side. When
> ever I make a hard right turn while taxiing, the snap bushing will pop out of
> place. I have been meaning (to busy flying) to silicone the bushing in place
> and hopfully this will do the trick. If anybody else has a better idea I
> would be glad to hear it.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Tip-up canopy forward seal |
*** WAS "Award winning RV-6" ***
*** snip ***
> You can read all about it in SA. One of the things that he'd done that I
>thought was pretty clever was mentioned in the article. It's the joggle
>that he put in the rear of the forward fuselage skin. The forward part of
>the tip up nests into this joggle almost perfectly and because he used the
>goose neck hinges, he said he has absolutely no air or water leaks. Of
>course, this idea would not work if you choose to have the canopy side skins
>overlap the fuselage. Craig's canopy butts against the fuselage side rails,
>per plans.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Guys,
Jerry Scott (the 85 day Oshkosh 95 RV6A) also does something
similar, but slightly easier to fabricate. I saw several RV6 fuselages in
his shop during the Chino, CA fly-in and they all had the following
modification.
When he fabricates the F-668 bulkhead (the aft end of the fixed
forward top skin), he places a strip of aluminum (about 7/8 wide - 0.025 or
0.032) in between the top flange of the F-688 and upper deck skin. With
about a 1/4 inch of this strip exposed after the skin is attached, a nice
'ledge' is formed for the canopy forward skin to close against. This is
instead of the canopy forward skin resting on the 3/16 radiused corner of
the F-688. It also gets around the 'disappearing' 3/16 radius as you get
closer to the longerons (caused by the taper of the forward fuselage -- see
the archives). Since the F-688 is spliced from L and R parts, and notched
for the longerons, it can be easily adjusted to allow for this extra strip
over the F-688.
It seemed a really good idea to me, but unfortuneately came to late
for incorporation on my fuselage .... :^( .... it would have also saved
quite a bit of "fiddle time" and well as looking neater and providing a
better air/water seal.
... hope it helps someone else ... Gil (too late) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details |
>Okay, guys and gals, a question I need answered ASAP, if you please:
>
>I'm at the point of cutting the plexi for my 6A tip-up canopy (gasp, tremble,
>swallow hard). Before I do, I want to get (at least) one thing straight.
> The canopy must transition from sitting atop (outside, if you will) the fwd
>canopy skin to a position inside(below) this same skin as it wraps around the
>sides of the canopy frame. (i.e., the plexi must cross the plane of the
>aluminum skin at some point in order to fit in the groove on the side pieces
>of the frame, since the aluminum skin becomes the outside of that groove at
>the sides, yet sits below and inside the plexi up front over the instrument
>panel). Is that clear as mud?? Those of you who have completed this phase
>will know what I mean.
>
>As I see it, one of 3 things must happen: the skin must be notched or the
>canopy must be notched where the two pcs cross over, or the skin must be
>dog-eared inward at the corner to lie flush with the canopy frame side pcs
>and let the plexi pass over at that spot. Any of the above would then need
>to be concealed with the figerglass fairing strip. My detasiled study of the
>latest update of the manual and plans has shed no light on this geometry.
> The photos are of the prototype parts which only vaguely resemble the parts
>before me. Vintage Van's documentation, for sure. Boy, if they had *me* to
>do their manuals, I'd make sure they were thorough and we could *all*
>understand everything . Well, they haven't offered me the job, so that's
>everyone's loss, and Frank Justice will just have to fill in for me :-)
>
>Any suggestions on how to fit the canopy and skin happily together would be
>appreciated. I hope to forge ahead with the Norton wheel tonight!
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill has other problems, but I thought I'd pass this on for other tip-up
canopy builders ....
I had asked the same question, and got three equally good
responses. The concensus agrees that the plans are deficient in this area
and something is needed.
1. Just crease inwards (mash in) the canopy deck where the transition from
side to forward deck occurs (the Bob Skinner and John Darby approach).
2. Cut a vertical notch similar to that shown on the plans for the sliding
canopy in the same area (the Jim Stugart approach, I think)
3. Cut a slit in the forward canopy deck that is just (about 1/16) below
the edge of the plexi. Start the slit at the aft edge of the forward
canopy deck, and cut it about 4 inches long. End it in a nice stress
relieving hole. At the aft end, just above the slit, pull in the aluminum
and rivet it with a flush rivet to the canopy side rail. The blending you
need will now occur smoothly along this 4 inches from the canopy side rail
to the end of the slit. (the Alexander approach - suggested by another
RV-list member)
... hope this helps other builders ...
... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA423.9A9E5920
Bob:
The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely =
mandatory!!!!
The why is quite simple and I speak from first hand expierience.
While waiting for departure at gross weight with a full search =
crew in my Cessna 170-B my vent line froze solid at the outlet unknown =
to me. Outside temp was only 28 deg's F and it was the first flight of =
the day. The wait was around ten minutes.
At about 200' after lift off I started seeing oil on the =
windshield, you can imagine the pucker factor change! Here we were going =
out to look for a downed aircraft at gross with what looked like serious =
trouble right after lift off.
We made a normal cicuit and landing with my nav's eyeballs glued =
to the oil temp and pressure guages the whole way.
On inspection we found the front oil seal of the O-300 hard up =
against the backing plate and about half litre of oil missing from the =
sump. Serious? you better believe it !! At that rate I would have had a =
siezed engine somewhere over north central Ontario.
The cause was an oil breather line without the whistle notch. =
When the end of the line froze up with condensate the crankcase became =
pressurized blowing out the oil seal.
Been there, done that, got the notch and always will have. It's =
no big deal to instal, only takes a few minutes and could save more than =
a few dollars.
Ernie Amadio
Still finishing my RV-6 factory
C-170-B C-FJJK
e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA423.9A9E5920--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Upside down flap hinges |
I'm getting ready to install the flaps on my quickbuild RV-6A when I
notice that the factory installed the piano hinge upside down... on both
flaps. The hinge extends about 1/16" below the wing, when it should be
tucked up inside the wing. Hmmmm 1/16" times 56" flaps times 2 wings
equals 7 square inches of drag from this little factory snafu. What would
you do? Drill out 80 rivets? Accept the drag? Comments welcome!
Thanks,
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator Return Line/Ugly Goop |
One feature that surprised me about the LOM engine I am flying is the
crankcase breather tube. It is about 3/4" I.D. and is about 6" short of
reaching the cowl air exhaust outlet. After 100 hours of flight, the inside
of the tube is still dry.
These new dry sump engines are really different from the old "wet sump"
engine design. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust failure #4 cyl.on 0-320D1A-Tolle design |
<< Have been having problems with this pipe cracking around the flange.
First
time was at 50 hours - was rewelded and gussets extended down the side to
spread the stress? - and now at 120 hours the crack is just below the gusset
and cracked around the flange at the top again. I guess this topic may
have been kicked around before (I have only been lurking here a couple of
days) but if there are any good fixes I would be interested.
L.Coats RV6 120 hr
Louise >>
It use to be that after the number four cylinder pipe cracked the first time,
you would send it back to Tolle for a slip joint in this pipe. I don't know
if they are still doing this.
BTW, I seem to remember that this occured on about 10% of the Tolle exhaust
systems.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
A heavenly scene in the far distant future:
Van went to Heaven upon his death and was given a warm welcome at the
Pearly Gates. St. Peter, after completing the formalities, asked him how
he would like to spend his time. Van, the great inventor, asked to see
some of the inventors before him. So St. Peter printed out the list of
all the inventors currently (doing time) in heaven.
As Van started to go through the list, he came across the name Adam. He
queried if it was the same guy who discovered Eve, the woman. St. Peter
confirmed that indeed Adam was the man credited with the invention of
women. Van requested an audience with Adam, as he had a few things to
straighten out with him.
When the scheduled meeting took place, Van was all over Adam, attacking
him for the flaws in his invention.
"Your invention is the most stupid work of engineering I ever saw. There
is too much of front end protrusion, the rear end wobbles too much, it
chatters at high speeds and the intake is placed too close to the
exhaust."
Obviously, Adam doesn't like it too much. He thinks for a while and then
leads Van to the Celestial Computer. He works with the enormous
data-banks and in a few minutes there are beeps and all that, and out
come a few charts and graphs.
"Look here, Van. Despite all the flaws you pointed out, data shows that
there are more men riding my product than yours."
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, painting wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Burlington CO Fly-in |
RVers, I just got off the phone with John Stewart concerning the Fly-in on
Sept. 28th in Burlington, CO. This fly-in sounds like it's shaping up to be
a pretty big deal. 19 RVs from Texas, Bob & Judy Avery and GEORGE and Becki
Orndorff (right George?), Keith Ellis and others from Boone, Iowa and I'm
sure, a host of others, maybe even a few from Nebraska. It's shaping up to
be an exciting event.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report of incident |
>1 - At about 60 hours I had the cowl off doing some minor maintaince. I
>happened to notice two bends in the firewall, about one inch above the
>lower engine mount attach points, both on the corners of the firewall,
>the 90 degree bend in this area is for the rudder peddles to move freely.
>A friend and I inspected the motor mount, rivets, weldments inside,
>longerons and could find nothing unusual. I called Van and talked to Tom
I've seen this on more than a few -4's. All continue to fly with no problems.
I have no explanation, except that where the gear legs tie into the center
floor ribs might have been a bit out of whack, previous to the aircraft
adjusting itself. Do to this being a possibility, I'm suggesting the
following:
When you jig your fuselage, attach the motor mount to the firewall, and jig
that as an assembly. In assembly, attach the floor ribs to the 063 angles
previously riveted to the firewall with #8 washer head screws, same # and
spacing as rivets. Due to the method for attaching the inner/upper gear leg
mounts on the -4, any minor mis-alignment here will stress the firewall/floor
rib area. If you have your fuselage already built, shim the area mentioned to
take up any slack- do not simply tighten the bolts.
Comments?
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Upside down flap hinges |
The step created by the hinge is rounded and located well back on the
surface of the wing where the boundary layer begins to thicken.
The frontal area is 7 inches (.05 ft^2). The equivalent flat plate
area is the product of Drag Coefficient CD and frontal area.
It is the latter that slows you down. I would be surprised if CD for a
step like this was greater than .1 giving a flat plate area of .005
ft^2.
At 175 knots the dynamic pressure is 103 lb/ft^2, the drag of this
excrescence is on the order of .5 lb. Total airframe drag is about 200
pounds. You probably wouldn't notice it.
Since you have the quick build kit and have not developed the shakes
at the thought of having to do yet another thing over, go ahead and
fix it. Besides, it builds character.
Drilling out AN426 3 rivets is not too difficult. Practice on a dozen
set in scrap first. Either a new hinge or a .063 packer under the
original will restore the surface.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Upside down flap hinges
Date: 9/17/96 12:26 AM
I'm getting ready to install the flaps on my quickbuild RV-6A when I
notice that the factory installed the piano hinge upside down... on both
flaps. The hinge extends about 1/16" below the wing, when it should be
tucked up inside the wing. Hmmmm 1/16" times 56" flaps times 2 wings
equals 7 square inches of drag from this little factory snafu. What would
you do? Drill out 80 rivets? Accept the drag? Comments welcome!
Thanks,
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
>Bob:
> The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely mandatory!!!!
> The why is quite simple and I speak from first hand expierience.
> The cause was an oil breather line without the whistle notch. When
the end of the line froze up with condensate the crankcase became
pressurized blowing out the oil seal.
> Been there, done that, got the notch and always will have. It's no
big deal to instal, only takes a few minutes and could save more than a few
dollars.
>
>Ernie Amadio
Gosh, Ernie, I didn't think I was advocating not putting in the notch:)
> Don't forget to put a "breather hole" in the crankcase line to prevent
pressure build up in case the outlet freezes (not likely IMO, but considered
a good practice). <
I probably should have left off my "IMO". I have a "blow hole" in my
installation. However, I've seen homebuilts certified that do not have this
"whistle notch" (but then, I saw a RV-6A certified that didn't have the two
bolts holding on the mechanical fuel pump safety wired. It didn't have the
blow hole either. Guess the Feds can't inspect everything). When the
discharge is located 1/4" from the exhaust pipe, I don't think there is much
chance of a freeze up and just because there is a whistle notch does not
mean that the system is 100% protected from freeze up. Also, putting the
notch in the tube might not be as easy as it first seems if you are going
"by the book" . It seems that I've read that there is a specific size/shape
and/or location that these should be for proper operation. Can't remember
where I read the specs.
The best way I've found to prevent condensation from freezing in the
breather line is to fly the dickens out of the RV-6 and burn that moisture
out of the oil:) It's worked for me, so far, anyway. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
Mike Kukulski wrote:
> (A good joke)
ROTFLMHO!!! (Gasp! Wheeze!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Upside down flap hinges(comment) |
I'm getting ready to install the flaps on my quickbuild RV-6A when I
notice that the factory installed the piano hinge upside down... on both
flaps. The hinge extends about 1/16" below the wing, when it should be
tucked up inside the wing. Hmmmm 1/16" times 56" flaps times 2 wings
equals 7 square inches of drag from this little factory snafu. What would
you do? Drill out 80 rivets? Accept the drag? Comments welcome!
Thanks,
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
======================
Hi Capt Tim,
I think I would go ahead, drill it out and install it correctly. Simply
because when you'll wash your award wining bird the rag will snag on the
end of the hinge....... This will come to annoy you. Besides it will look
better and you have confidence knowing you did it right. Am I picky are
what?
ps. don't forget to rivet the new hinge assembly in with the pin and
opposite hinge in place to help keep things lined up.
happy building
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
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end
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
Text item:
VERY BAD TASTE. I HAVE A HUNCH AS TO WHERE YOU'LL BE DOING YOUR TIME.
A heavenly scene in the far distant future:
Van went to Heaven upon his death and was given a warm welcome at the
Pearly Gates. St. Peter, after completing the formalities, asked him how
he would like to spend his time. Van, the great inventor, asked to see
some of the inventors before him. So St. Peter printed out the list of
all the inventors currently (doing time) in heaven.
As Van started to go through the list, he came across the name Adam. He
queried if it was the same guy who discovered Eve, the woman. St. Peter
confirmed that indeed Adam was the man credited with the invention of
women. Van requested an audience with Adam, as he had a few things to
straighten out with him.
When the scheduled meeting took place, Van was all over Adam, attacking
him for the flaws in his invention.
"Your invention is the most stupid work of engineering I ever saw. There
is too much of front end protrusion, the rear end wobbles too much, it
chatters at high speeds and the intake is placed too close to the
exhaust."
Obviously, Adam doesn't like it too much. He thinks for a while and then
leads Van to the Celestial Computer. He works with the enormous
data-banks and in a few minutes there are beeps and all that, and out
come a few charts and graphs.
"Look here, Van. Despite all the flaws you pointed out, data shows that
there are more men riding my product than yours."
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, painting wings
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
From: Mike Kukulski <indirect.com!kukulski(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Van in Heaven
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:53:42 -0700 (MST)
tel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03682 for | From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: million candlepower landing light? |
Today I see an ad in the news magizine. It says: "This bright
one million candlepower beam is more powerful than aircraft
landing lights and 20 X brighter that auto lights."
This got my attention. It goes on to say it is a 100 watt
Quartz Halogen Lamp, 12 volt.
Has any of you used this as landing lights? If so, where did
you get the bulb? How much did you pay?
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 09/17/96
Time: 09:05:55
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builders' Yeller Pages |
Hi Gary!
Great list! I wanted to make a couple of corrections to the Matronics
entry. Here's what you have currently:
MATRONICS 510-447-9886 SERVO SPEED CONTROL/FUEL GAUGES
Here's what I would like it to be:
MATRONICS 510-606-1001 FUEL FLOW COMPUTER/SERVO SPEED CONTROL/LIST ARCHIVE CDROM
Thanks!
Mattt
PS - You might also consider adding company email and url to the list. That
would be pretty handy!
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Upside down flap hinges |
If you choose to drill out the hinge, I would replace the hinge because 1)
you'll never get the holes to line up and 2) the hinge is very soft and it
will deform somewhat from drilling it out. It really isn't a big deal as
long as you still have full range of motion (40 degrees) of the flaps. When
you re-drill AND rivet the new hinge make sure that you have a pin a piece of
hinge attached to the new piece. Additionally, if the hinge is already
installed on your flap, make sure that you allow for the placement of the
flap and how it relates to the edge of the wing and the aileron.
If it bothers you, change it. Drilling out the rivets is easy from what
people tell me, luckly I have never had to do it :).
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upside down flap hinges(comment) |
> I'm getting ready to install the flaps on my quickbuild RV-6A when I
> notice that the factory installed the piano hinge upside down... on both
> flaps. The hinge extends about 1/16" below the wing, when it should be
> tucked up inside the wing. Hmmmm 1/16" times 56" flaps times 2 wings
> equals 7 square inches of drag from this little factory snafu. What would
> you do? Drill out 80 rivets? Accept the drag? Comments welcome!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> -------------------------------
> Capt Tim Lewis
> Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
> lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
> or capntim(at)aol.com
> COML ASEL IA
> RV-6AQ #60023
> ======================
>
Having recently installed my second flap, here are my thoughts:
1) Unless the rivets are spaced in a perfectly regular
pattern, the holes won't line up when you flip the
hinge over.
2) It isn't much drag as pointed out by David Fried.
3) Practice removing a bunch of rivets before you take
on removing this many rivets in one location.
4) This is a somewhat touchy area to rivet since you
need to keep the two parts of the hinge lined up
as well as possible to make the removing and in-
serting of the hinge pin as easy as possible. You
also need to be sure to not squeeze one of the hinge
eyes as you rivet.
5) If you do decide to redo it: I got much better
results on my second flap by using the following
process:
- have the flap completely assembled except
for the hinge rivets.
- mount the flap to the wing by clecoing each
end of the hinge, than 1 cleco in the center of
the hinge (on both the flap and the wing).
- I then clecoed every hole on both the flap and
wing, working from the center out and moving
the flap around quite a bit to try and make sure
the hinge had as smooth movement as possible.
- remove the hinge pin to separate the flap from
the wing.
- remove a single cleco at a time and rivet that
location, again working from the center of the
hinge out to both edges at the same time.
After using this process, I can insert both halves of
the hinge pin into the hinge almost the whole way
just using my fingers. My first flap requires spin-
ning the hinge pins to get them in. Note that I
split my hinge pin into two pieces and removed three
of the center eyes of the hinge. I may eventually
remove a fourth eye before final assembly.
Doug Medema
dougm@physio-control.com
RV-6A: wings complete except fuel tanks and wingtips.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: million candlepower landing light? |
> Today I see an ad in the news magizine. It says: "This bright
>one million candlepower beam is more powerful than aircraft
>landing lights and 20 X brighter that auto lights."
> This got my attention. It goes on to say it is a 100 watt
>Quartz Halogen Lamp, 12 volt.
Sounds like advertising hype to me: take it with a grain of salt.
I have 50W quartz halogen headlights in my car; my guess is their light is
about twice as bright. I guess the auto lights they're comparing to are old
VWs or 2CVs or something like that.
Frank.
--
Frank van der Hulst frankv@pec.co.nz http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | 1M Candlepower lamps |
> Today I see an ad in the news magazine. It says: "This bright
>one million candlepower beam is more powerful than aircraft
>landing lights and 20 X brighter than auto lights."
> This got my attention. It goes on to say it is a 100 watt
>Quartz Halogen Lamp, 12 volt.
> Has any of you used this as landing lights? If so, where did
>you get the bulb? How much did you pay?
>-------------------------------------
>Cecil Hatfield
>cecil@altonet
>RV-6A (wings)
The ratings are obviously maximum measurements centered
within the focused beam. Consider the following:
Take one of those little "Mag Lites" and unscrew the reflector
assembly so that all you have is a bare bulb. Now, hold it up
for someone to observe from, say . . . 2 miles away. What's
the probability that it can be seen? If someone knows exactly
where to look, they might pick it up . . the human eye is an
amazing sensor system. Now, put the reflector back on and focus
for tight beam. Point it at the observer again. I'll suggest
it can be picked up quite easily.
Now, what does the reflector do for the lamp's light output?
Obviously, NONE. The difference is that a larger portion of the
lamp's total output is launched in the same direction thereby
increasing apparent intensity. If a light meter were positioned
in the observer's light path, it will show a great increase in
measured candlepower.
Getting back to the advertisement in question. Even if they
did meet their claims of 1,000,000 c.p. output, you gotta
believe it's pretty tightly focused. If anyone is interested
in practical, non-traditional landing lights, consider the
newer, tiny rectangular headlamps for cars. They have two
filaments (built in spare bulb) . . . it may not point as high
and tight as the "landing" filament but it beats the socks off
of landing with no light at all. Second, they have excellent
life characteristics and they're cheap compared to "aircraft"
sealed beams. Put one on each wing and have a really dandy
landing light setup for only 110 watts of total consumption
and excellent redundancy.
I've landed dark airplanes lots of times . . . once I had my
passenger hold a flashlight out the window . . . straight
ahead? No, at the pavement under the wingtip. Successful
landings have more to do with peripheral perceptions of height
above ground than with seeing whether or not there's a cow
on the runway 2,000 feet ahead. One of my builders flies his
Rotax powered Kitfox a lot at night. His landing lights are
small, 25 watt fixtures under each wing tip pointed straight
down.
I subscribe to several lists and get lots of e-mail on aviation
electrical systems issues. Landing lights versus human factors
has to be pretty high on list of misunderstood requirements. I'd
trade 25 watts of light spread around the area just in front of
and under the ship for 250 watts of klieg-light down the centerline
any day.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
A Personally, I get uncomfortable pulling more than 4.0 to 4.5 G's. Does
>anybody pull more than this on a regular basis? If so, what the heck are you
>doing? (I really do want to know).
Good Question!! And by the way: I have been riding as a passenger with
pilots up front who feel compelled to show me a high G turn or pull-up, some
of which have been close to the ground. I DON'T like how it feels as a
PASSENGER (i.e., sort of an out-of-control feeling). One accident involved
a -4 in a close-to-the-ground 4-G pull-up, resulting in an accellerated
stall and etc. *** Which is to say, when we have someone in the passenger
seat, just BEING IN an RV is enough of a kick. We don't have to show them
the flight envelope!!
Just a thought............
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV-4 232SQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Upside Down Flap Hinges (Comment) |
I would highly recommend not changing the flap hinge. A little known secret
for the reason it was probably done that way is because the flap was
probably butted up to tight against the top wing skin. Changing the hinge
gives you an extra amount of room to have under the top wing skin if the
flap is rubbing up against it to hard ( slightly pushing the top wing skin
up ). Granted the slight alignment problem should not have occured but it
is easier to fix then redrilling the flap brace to the correct position so
that it does not push out the top wing skin out. I have seen this done on
regular kits when only a slight alignment (empahsized slight !) change was
required. As to the drag that far aft and small amount on the wing, it will
be unnoticable.
Scott Johnson / Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upside down flap hinges(comment) |
Tim,
I'd drill them out. HINT! Leave some way to move the flap laterally till
after the wings are mounted on the fuselage and you can position them.
You could even drill the hinge out then and reposition it so the flap is
in the correct position.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame details-chatter |
buddy on the list, wrote:
>Bill has other problems,
My wife says about the above: "Please list. I've been trying to come up with
a diagnosis for eighteen years now. Email your entries to Merryham(at)aol.com.
Your replies will help my graduate psychology thesis more than you could
ever know."
*********
Canopy nightmare update: I took the smash-in and rivet down the corner
approach to the canopy/aluminum crossover problem referenced above. If need
be, I will add the notch with trusty Dremel tool armed with tiny cutoff
wheel. Don't even consider building an RV without one of these.
I have ordered a new skin to replace the turtledeck skin that*won't*quite*
stretch* to reach the canopy. My perusal of the archives reveals that I am
the third lister who has made (and admitted) this mistake. However, in terms
of degree, I seem to hold the record for missing the mark by the greatest
distance. Preliminary fitting looks like an excellent fit with the new skin
will be achieved based on plexiglas trimming done already. I'm going to quit
trimming while I'm ahead this time :*)
The rear window profile might look a bit different when I'm done, but I don't
think it will be too dark in the baggage hold. Overall, maybe a slight
weight savings and c.g. forward shift compared to having done it the _right_
way, and about two weeks of extra work :-(
Whike waiting for the repair parts to come, I have shifted attention back to
mundane things like fuel pumps and engine mounts...
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why the air/oil separator? |
<< The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely mandatory!!!!
>>
What type of material should be used for the hose? It looks like automotive
hose would work well, but I worry about the hose kinking. I can't find Tygon
in that size, and I cant see how to install aluminum tube on the fitting.
Thanks!
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternator light |
Does anyone know how to wire in a light that will activate if the alternator
stops "alternating"? It seems that this wouldn't be too difficult, and would
be handy to have as a warning. It would also be a handy "turn off the master
switch" light at the end of a flight.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Burlington Fly-in |
Darn, darn ,darn. I evidently posted the wrong phone number for John
Stewart as the contact person for the Burlington Fly-in. John's phone
number is 719-346-8741. The other number was for Denis Walsh, editor of the
Rocky Mnt. RVator whos name and neumber were on the second line. Sorry,
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SDRIVERS <Sdrivers(at)cris.com> |
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Speaking of canopy installation, I just sent the October issue of Van's Air
> Force, Tri-State Wing newsletter off to the printers. In this special 12
> page issue, is a four page article entitled, CANOPY, OH MY CANOPY, PART DEUX,
> that includes seven pictures and a complete description of how I was able to
> fit my slider canopy by myself without any help except to put the canopy on
> the frame a couple of times. It turned out to be one of the easiest parts of
> the project because I came up with a better way to do it. I did not follow
> the directions!!! The canopy fits perfectly with no gaps anywhere. It was a
> piece of cake. There is also an article with two pictures and a sketch of a
> complete rudder trim system that will keep your cables taut and provide for
> rudder trim at all speeds, plus lots of other good tips, hints, tools, etc.
> There is no local news in my newsletter. It is dedicated to helping you
> build your RV faster and easier while avoiding the mistakes that I and others
> have made. I have nearly 300 subscribers all over the world and by word of
> mouth recomendations, get two to three new subscribers each week. Even Van's
> recommended it in the last issue of the RVator. If you would like to get a
> copy of this issue along with the rest of the 1996 back issues, send $5. for
> a subscription to the address below. If you E-mail me your address, I will
> send the back issues now and they can cross your check in the snail mail. I
> will send the October issue when I get it back from the printer.
>
> RV-6A completed and ready for paint.
> Jim Cone, Editor
> Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
> 422 Savannah Ridge Drive
> St. Charles, MO 63303
> (314) 928-8703
> FAX (314) 447-8803
> jamescone(at)aol.com
>
Please put me on your subscription list. I am:
Stuart S Driver
2800 N. Flagler Drive,
West Palm Beach,
FL 33401
Thanx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van in Valhalla (chatter) |
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Gary Standley wrote:
> VERY BAD TASTE.
Typing in all caps is generally accepted to be the electronic equivalent of
yelling. It's rude.
> I HAVE A HUNCH AS TO WHERE YOU'LL BE DOING YOUR TIME.
Oh good, just what the RV list needs -- our very own Jimmy Swagart!
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why the air/oil separator? |
>
><< The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely mandatory!!!!
>>>
>
>What type of material should be used for the hose? It looks like automotive
>hose would work well, but I worry about the hose kinking. I can't find Tygon
>in that size, and I cant see how to install aluminum tube on the fitting.
>
>Thanks!
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, I used a piece of neoprene hose from my separator outlet to a piece of
alum. pipe down to the exhaust outlet. The alum. pipe I have secured to
things in two places. Works for me.
Now, as to a 'whistle notch', I have absolutely no idea as to what that is,
even after following the talk here for the last few days.
Does it have anything to do with the beer cans we punched holes in and
dropped over the North Koreans? Made a wild whistle on the way down, and a
longgggggg wait for the blast.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
<< The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely =
mandatory!!!!
>>
What type of material should be used for the hose? It looks like =
automotive
hose would work well, but I worry about the hose kinking. I can't find =
Tygon
in that size, and I cant see how to install aluminum tube on the =
fitting.
Thanks!
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
Ed, on my factory bird the tube is aluminum and is attached to the =
fitting using a short peice of rubber hose as a coupler. The tube is =
only achored at the exit end. Additionally, the whistle hole is oval is =
shape and located about ten to twelve inches from the end.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator light |
>Does anyone know how to wire in a light that will activate if the alternator
>stops "alternating"? It seems that this wouldn't be too difficult, and would
>be handy to have as a warning. It would also be a handy "turn off the master
>switch" light at the end of a flight.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, I used the E.I. volt/amp gauge which has a discharge light so can't
really help you with that. I also have a "master on" light. It does come
in handy. If you have Tony's books, I'm sure there is info about the master
on light in there. If not, E-mail me off list with your address and I'll
send a photocopy of what I have in my file. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | re: rv8 elevator clearance |
I don't know who sent the message (I lost it in a case of terminal
computer klutz) re: binding of the elevator leading edge against the
spar straps of the HS, but here's what I know. Hope it helps.
The leading edge can bind if the rod end bearings are at the
prescribed 13/16" and the distance from the inboard end of the spar
to the leading edge is any greater than shown on the detail on
drawing 5PP. There are at least 3 fixes: (1) back off on the rod-end
bearings (1/2 to 1 turn should leave enough thread engaged). (2) put
a greater bend on the leading edge skin at the inboard end. This can
be carefully done without removing any pop rivets if you don't need
much additional clearance. (3) drill out the pop rivets, abandon the
pre-punched holes and drill new holes with greater skin overlap and
therefore a spar to leading edge distance as per the drawing.
Another thing you might check while waiting for the wing kit: my
elevator control horn interferes with the HS spar flange before the
elevator reaches the prescribed 20 degrees down. Checked with the
factory and was told that no previous RV-=8 builders had called on
this, but that some -6 builders had encountered it and the fix was to
file off enough of the spar flange to allow full control movement.
Good luck.
George
RV-8 sn 80006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA4F3.C4A868C0
Ed:
On the O-300 the entire vent line is aluminum tube. It runs from a =
fitting on the top of the crankcase just behind the front bearing along =
the right side of the crankcase joint to the rear of the engine,then =
bends downover the acsessory case to the bottom of the firewall, all one =
piece !
I don't propose to know what to recommend for a Lycoming =
instalation, however I'm sure that Lycoming would be able to steer you =
in the right direction.
Ernie Amadio
C-170-B C-FJJK
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA4F3.C4A868C0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why the air/oil separator? |
>
><< The whistle notch in the breather vent line is absolutely mandatory!!!!
>>>
>
>What type of material should be used for the hose? It looks like automotive
>hose would work well, but I worry about the hose kinking. I can't find Tygon
>in that size, and I cant see how to install aluminum tube on the fitting.
>
>Thanks!
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, I used automotive radiator hose from the oil/air separator output to a
length of aluminum tubing (in which I put a whistle notch). I clamped the
aluminum tubing in two places, one to the firewall and one place to the
engine mount) and positioned it so it dumped on the exhaust pipe. The space
between the tubing and pipe was just over 1/4".
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | fuel pump location |
I am tinkering with my fuel system while waiting for the replacement fwd
fuselage skin to arive (see earlier canopy trimming saga). Having liked the
RV's I saw on the flightline which had no center console for throttle,
mixture, etc, I have duplicated the idea on my plane. My detatched, floor
mounted console has two fuel gauges and the selector valve installed. I plan
to conceal the Facet pump inside this console also, floor-mounting it just
below the selector valve.
Both the plans and the Facet instruction sheet show the pump mounted at a 45
degree upward angle, an arrangement which I cannot engineer into my chosen
location. Is there a compelling reason to do it this way? Would it have
anything to do with keeping the pump purged of air, or what?
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Hi Folks,
To those of you who asked for copies of the RV-6 panel pix, sorry for
the delay. I was waiting for those who expressed a desire for them to
drop me a line. I didn't hear from all but have decided to go with the
ones who have responded.
The prints are being made now and I should get them into the mail by
this Friday or before. So you can expect them sometime next week.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Why the air/oil separator? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA4F3.C05625A0
Bob:
No offence was intended.Your qualifier left the impression that it =
was a less than show stopping consideration.
Perhaps I over reacted, however this is an issue close to home,and =
I can't stress it's importance enough.
To support your point, I must admit that the vent line on my 170 =
was (as near as we can tell) the original that came from the factory =
some 39 years before the incident I described.
So, I agree the likelyhood of a freeze up is pretty small.
For the effort involved I see no reason to not do it. There is no =
down side in doing it , only a benefit.=20
Ernie Amadio
e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA4F3.C05625A0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
>Mike Kukulski wrote:
>> (A good joke)
>
>ROTFLMHO!!! (Gasp! Wheeze!)
I actually figured this out! Both were good for a belly laugh. :-)
-----
Bill Pace The only expensive tool
wbpace(at)adnc.com is a cheap tool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
> A heavenly scene in the far distant future:
> Van went to Heaven upon his death and was given a warm > > > welcome at the
Don't want to be a prude, but lets not assume everyone enjoys this kind of
humor and keep it off the list.....
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van in Valhalla (chatter) |
You wrote:
> "Oh good, just what the RV list needs -- our very own Jimmy > Swagart!"
I, too, was offended at the joke. Its got nothing to do with Jimmy Swagart
or religion. Its just bad taste. I wouldn't expect anyone to tell an off
color joke in front of strangers or in mixed company...both conditions exist
on this list.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upside Down Flap Hinges (Comment) |
With all this conflicting talk about whether or not to drill out the upside
down flap hinge, I'm curious as to what Van's opinion is on this. Has the
original poster talked to the factory yet? The quickbuilds are so new that
the factory probably has more experience with them than the combined members
of this list. If it was installed intentionally this way, I have no idea
why they would, and you were to redo it, you might be kicking yourself later.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator light |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Ed:
Why not install an undervoltage sensor similar to what's in the
Cessna's?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)juno.com
writes:
>Does anyone know how to wire in a light that will activate if the
>alternator
>stops "alternating"? It seems that this wouldn't be too difficult,
>and would
>be handy to have as a warning. It would also be a handy "turn off the
>master
>switch" light at the end of a flight.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: rv8 elevator clearance |
>Another thing you might check while waiting for the wing kit: my
>elevator control horn interferes with the HS spar flange before the
>elevator reaches the prescribed 20 degrees down. Checked with the
>factory and was told that no previous RV-=8 builders had called on
>this, but that some -6 builders had encountered it and the fix was to
>file off enough of the spar flange to allow full control movement.
>
>Good luck.
>
>George
>
>RV-8 sn 80006
>
George,
It's a common problem with the -6's. The same thing happened on my -6A.
The factory told me the same thing, file off enough of the spar flange to
get the required elevator travel. I haven't seen the drawings for the -8,
but assume they use a similar construction technique as the -6. A left and
right spar butted together and joined with two taper strips. It was the
center of the lower flange that needed to be filed down.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mixed(up) Strangers (chatter) |
<< I wouldn't expect anyone to tell an off color joke in front of strangers
or in mixed company...both conditions exist on this list. >>
Darn, and I was going to have y'all over for Thanksgiving dinner this year.
But now that you are strangers...go pound sand.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Protect against credit card fraud (fwd) |
To fellow RVers:
Attached please find a msg that was forwarded to me by an lawyer friend.
I know this is not aviation related, but I thought it may save some
RV-listers some grief.
Kind regards,
Ming
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:50:50 -0600
From: Jack D. Stone <STONEJ(at)hayboo.com>
Your name, social security number, current address, previous
addresses, mother's maiden name, birth date and other personal
information are now available to anyone with a credit card through a
new Lexis database called P-Trax. As I am sure you are aware, this
information could be used to commit credit card fraud or otherwise allow
someone else to use your identity.
You can have your name and information removed from this list by
making a telephone request. Call (800)543-6862, select option 4 and
then option 9 ("P-trax") and tell the representative answering that you
wish to remove your name from the P-trax database. You may also
send a fax to (513) 865-1930, or physical mail to LEXIS-NEXIS attn:
P-trax / P.O. Box 933 / Dayton, Ohio 45401-0933. Sending physical mail
to confirm your name has been removed is always a good idea.
As word of the existence of this database has spread on the net,
Lexis-Nexis has been inundated with calls, and has set up a special set
of operators to handle the volume. In addition, Andrew Bleh (rhymes
with "Play") is a manager responsible for this product, and is the person
to whom complaints about the service could be directed. He can be
reached at the above 800 number. Ask for extension 3385. According
to Lexis, the manager responsible is Bill Fister at extension 1364.
I suggest that we inundate these people with requests to remove our
info from the list and forward this e-mail to everyone we know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Upside Down Flap Hinges (Comment) |
On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Scott Gesele wrote:
> With all this conflicting talk about whether or not to drill out the upside
> down flap hinge, I'm curious as to what Van's opinion is on this. Has the
> original poster talked to the factory yet? The quickbuilds are so new that
> the factory probably has more experience with them than the combined members
> of this list. If it was installed intentionally this way, I have no idea
> why they would, and you were to redo it, you might be kicking yourself later.
>
> -Scott Gesele N506RV
> scottg(at)villagenet.com
I talked to Van's yesterday. They know about the problem, and
immediately offered new hinges. (Funny, they didn't offer to send
somebody out to do the work... ;^) I drilled out the rivets in the first
flap last night, and started installing a new hinge. Many thanks to the
folks who suggested that I install the new hinge with the pin inserted
and the other hinge half connected (to keep the hinge straight).
Drilling out the 40 or so rivets wasn't so bad. It took just under an
hour. The rivets tend to hang up in the hinge, but that doesn't matter
because I just need the rivets out of the skin and spar.
My mail has been down since around noon yesterday, so I've missed a lot
of discussion on the list. I hope Matt's system qued my messages. If
not, I'll catch up via the archives. In any case, thanks to you all for
your suggestions.
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Valhalla (chatter) |
Jon and others-
Grow up! What are you guys, escapees from the Republican convention that
were bothered because Pat didn't get to speak? You guys really need to relax
and enjoy life a little. God is not offended by humor. Everywhere we go
these days we run into people who feel that freedom means never being
offended. Tyranny is never being offended, or challenged for that matter.
I'd heard the joke before, but I liked the adaptation to segue it into the
list. Nicely done. Lenny Bruce is laughing in his grave. Those of you who
take offense at anything on this list (and now that I know you're here I'll
try to trot out my randiest material) just use the delete key.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
Jon Scholl wrote:
>
> Don't want to be a prude, but lets not assume everyone enjoys this kind of
> humor and keep it off the list.....
Actually, Jon, I would say you are being a bit prudish. First of all,
the joke was pretty tame (innuendo only, no foul language). Second of
all, like all other messages (ads, ect.) which you don't want to read
the content of, simply delete and move on. Lastly, (and this posting is
guilty, also), metadiscussion of what is appropriate on the List does
NOT belong on the list. Reply privately to the offending poster or to
Matt or both. Sorry, Matt, but I could see us heading toward a Net
censorship discussion, which I'm personally heartily sick of.
PatK - RV-6A - left wing flap in assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Heaven |
>--------------
>Jon Scholl wrote:
>>
>> Don't want to be a prude, but lets not assume everyone enjoys this kind of
>> humor and keep it off the list.....
>
>Actually, Jon, I would say you are being a bit prudish. First of all,
>the joke was pretty tame (innuendo only, no foul language). Second of
>all, like all other messages (ads, ect.) which you don't want to read
>the content of, simply delete and move on. Lastly, (and this posting is
>guilty, also), metadiscussion of what is appropriate on the List does
>NOT belong on the list. Reply privately to the offending poster or to
>Matt or both. Sorry, Matt, but I could see us heading toward a Net
>censorship discussion, which I'm personally heartily sick of.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>PatK - RV-6A - left wing flap in assembly
>--------------
Amen. Let's drop this thread right now. Thank you.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protect against credit card fraud (fwd) |
One word of caution here. Never give your SS# to anybody. Even if they
promis to remove you from some nasty list somewhere. This may be a scam
to get your number. Check this out _very_ carefully before you give them
any information.
Chris
> To fellow RVers:
>
> Attached please find a msg that was forwarded to me by an lawyer friend.
> I know this is not aviation related, but I thought it may save some
> RV-listers some grief.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ming
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:50:50 -0600
> From: Jack D. Stone <STONEJ(at)hayboo.com>
>
> Your name, social security number, current address, previous
> addresses, mother's maiden name, birth date and other personal
> information are now available to anyone with a credit card through a
> new Lexis database called P-Trax.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator light |
Timely notification of alternator failure is (IMHO) a MUST.
Fortunately, this is a simple task based upon the following
physical facts:
(1) Batteries DELIVER their energy at 12.5 volts or BELOW
(2) Batteries REQUIRE a bus voltage of 13.5 or ABOVE in order
to recharge.
Therefore, it follows that a bus voltage below 13.0 volts
may be assumed a result of alternator being off line for
what ever reason.
Sport Aviation for August 1995 carried an article I wrote called
"Ignition Battery Manager - Revisited" on page 99. There's a
schematic and bill of materials for building a suitable voltage
sensor for driving a variety of loads . . . in this case, providing
automatic changeover of electronic ignition systems to separate
battery in case of alternator failure. In addition, the circuit
will Illuminate an indicator to notify the pilot of alternator failure.
We're just starting a production run of the low voltage sensor
described in the article. You're encouraged to provide this type
of capability if it's not included as part of an engine or
other systems display instrumentation. You may chase your own
parts from the article, purchase a kit (loose electronic parts
only) from us or take advantage of our assembled and tested units.
Pricing for kits and/or assembled units will be available late
next week after we've put a few together and get some good time
numbers. If you think you'd like to build from scratch and don't
have access to Sport Aviation, drop me a #10 SASE with the "IBMM"
marked on the back and I'll send you a copy of the article.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
******************************
* Go ahead, make my day *
* Show me where I'm wrong! *
******************************
P.S. Be wary of sensors from any certified airplane. I designed and
built about 5 different varieties of those critters to Beech and
Cessna specs. Unless they've produced some NEW designs that I'm
not familiar with, I can tell you that NONE of those devices are
recommended for the task detailed above.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | SCAM?: Protect against credit card fraud (fwd) |
Have to comment here guys - I saw this at work too, forwarded by a
friend of mine.
I don't know about you, but calling up someone I don't know because I
saw an e-mail that originated who-knows-where (I'm not talking about
Ming, or his friend), and then giving them the keys to my credit (Name &
SS#) sounds like the biggest scam of the century.
Think about it - how do you know the person you talk to or the address
you send this information to is legit?
Sorry for straying from RV's, but I thought this point of view may be
important.
EB #80131
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 09-18-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu)
To fellow RVers:
Attached please find a msg that was forwarded to me by an lawyer friend.
I know this is not aviation related, but I thought it may save some
RV-listers some grief.
Kind regards,
Ming
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:50:50 -0600
From: Jack D. Stone <STONEJ(at)hayboo.com>
Your name, social security number, current address, previous
addresses, mother's maiden name, birth date and other personal
information are now available to anyone with a credit card through a
new Lexis database called P-Trax. As I am sure you are aware, this
information could be used to commit credit card fraud or otherwise allow
someone else to use your identity.
You can have your name and information removed from this list by
making a telephone request. Call (800)543-6862, select option 4 and
then option 9 ("P-trax") and tell the representative answering that you
wish to remove your name from the P-trax database. You may also
send a fax to (513) 865-1930, or physical mail to LEXIS-NEXIS attn:
P-trax / P.O. Box 933 / Dayton, Ohio 45401-0933. Sending physical mail
to confirm your name has been removed is always a good idea.
As word of the existence of this database has spread on the net,
Lexis-Nexis has been inundated with calls, and has set up a special set
of operators to handle the volume. In addition, Andrew Bleh (rhymes
with "Play") is a manager responsible for this product, and is the person
to whom complaints about the service could be directed. He can be
reached at the above 800 number. Ask for extension 3385. According
to Lexis, the manager responsible is Bill Fister at extension 1364.
I suggest that we inundate these people with requests to remove our
info from the list and forward this e-mail to everyone we know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator light |
Ed,
I approached the master switch light the other way. I have a green LED
(purchased at my local electronics shop) that is always on when the
master switch is on. The master is just a ground switch so come off the
side of the switch that connects to your relay with an LED, the other end
of the LED needs to be connected to +12V (my LED's require a 477 ohm
resistor in series or they go "poof"). Whenever the master is "ON" i.e.
ground is made the LED is on. These are very tiny lights which fit in a
1/8" hole so they are not distracting during flight. I also have them
connected to all my circuit switches to show at a glance the switch is on.
Most car alternators I've seen have three connections (not counting the p
lead). One is for ground, one is for excitation (+12) , and the last is
for an alternator indicator light. It can be connected to a light that is
rated for 12V and will come on when the alternator is not putting out
much current (typical alt light on a car). I just left it disconnected
because I am using an EI volt/amp digital meter connected through the
alternator p lead. This tells me directly how many amps (+/- .1) the
alternator is putting out and the voltage the alternator is holding. If
I turn off the field to the alternator (throught a circuit switch) the
meter tells me what voltage the battery is holding. There are other ways
to connect the meter and all are explained very thoroughly in the
instructions. This is the best solution IMHO.
Each lead on the alternator is marked with a letter which is standard, I
don't remember them off-hand but have them written down at home and will
get them to you if needed.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Does anyone know how to wire in a light that will activate if the alternator
> stops "alternating"? It seems that this wouldn't be too difficult, and would
> be handy to have as a warning. It would also be a handy "turn off the master
> switch" light at the end of a flight.
>
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Vall...(KIDDING!) |
How is everybody supporting their uprighted fuselage? For now I have a
sawhorse under the firewall and tailspring (putting in seat skins, etc.).
I now need to climb inside to backdrill my top fuse skins, and later for
instrument/systems installation. I'm 220+ lbs. I was thinking about wooden
cradles underneath each bulkhead. Overkill?
A fellow lister suggested buying a troll. Anybody know where to get one of
those ?
After the fuse skins, I start on the wings, first step is pitot tube
installation. I plan on a day/seldom night VFR setup. To those flying,
should I go through the extra expense of a heated pitot tube? I've never
used heat in my 200hrs, but then again So. California isn't exactly
freezing. I will be flying lots of x/c.
Thanks,
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Cradle |
<< I now need to climb inside to backdrill my top fuse skins, and later for
instrument/systems installation. I'm 220+ lbs. I was thinking about wooden
cradles underneath each bulkhead. Overkill? >>
I took two saw horses.
For the forward support horse I cut the legs of the horse to a length of
about 12-18 inches. I then took two pieces of 2X4 about 36 inches each and
lag bolted then in to a "V" shape with the same taper as the bottom of the
fuselage and placed this horse under the section of skin that the spar will
go under. I used the real dense carpet pad (green stuff) between the
fuselage and the horse.
The second horse supported the rear bulkhead and placed my longerons level.
These horses supported my entire fuselage until it was up on the gear. It
also held it level both length and span wise.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upside down flap hinges |
Tim,
Call Van's, request replacement hinge material and start drilling. It may
not be much drag but don't accept an incorrectly built aircraft. If you're
careful you can drill out the rivets without any problem.
Rick McBride
RV6, N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Cradle |
>I took two saw horses.
>
>For the forward support horse I cut the legs of the horse to a length of
>about 12-18 inches. I then took two pieces of 2X4 about 36 inches each and
>lag bolted then in to a "V" shape with the same taper as the bottom of the
>fuselage and placed this horse under the section of skin that the spar will
>go under. I used the real dense carpet pad (green stuff) between the
>fuselage and the horse.
>
>The second horse supported the rear bulkhead and placed my longerons level.
>
>These horses supported my entire fuselage until it was up on the gear. It
>also held it level both length and span wise.
I used two "heavy duty" saw horses: glued, screwed and gusseted. One went
under the firewall and the aft one went under, I think, 608 (on the RV-6).
I thought maybe a sawhorse under one of the wider bulkheads might be a
little more stable than putting one under the tailspring area.
One thing to think about. My sawhorses did not put the fuselage in level
attitude. When I needed to do this, I got on my hands and knees, raised the
fuselage with my back and slid the sawhorse forward until it was level. !
When you get done with your work, don't forget to put the saw horse back
under the bulkhead! My rear saw horse had little wedges that kind of
followed the contour of the 608 bulkhead. When moved forward, these wedges
came in contact with the cirved portion of the sice skins. A friend who was
building a RV-6 (and who must weigh 250 lbs.) came over and asked if he
could sit in my six. Sure.---- oops. The little wedges put a crease on
each side of the airplane. After he left, I hopped up and down quite a bit
and cleared the air in my lungs. How did I get it out? I got a piece of
broom handle, sanded the rounded end smooth, stood out side the airplane and
reached in to the aft part of the fuselage and rubbed on the crease until it
darn near disappeared. I figured a few tailwheel first landings would
spring it back to original:)
Be careful out there. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator Light |
>I approached the master switch light the other way. I have a green LED
>(purchased at my local electronics shop) that is always on when the
>master switch is on. The master is just a ground switch so come off the
>side of the switch that connects to your relay with an LED, the other end
>of the LED needs to be connected to +12V (my LED's require a 477 ohm
>resistor in series or they go "poof"). Whenever the master is "ON" i.e.
>ground is made the LED is on. These are very tiny lights which fit in a
>1/8" hole so they are not distracting during flight. I also have them
>connected to all my circuit switches to show at a glance the switch is on.
LED (Light Emitting Diodes) are "current" devices in that unlike
incandescent lamps, the voltage drop across a diode is relatively
constant irrespective of the light output. If you check out LED specs,
you'll find that they have a "maximum" or "operating" current rating;
for most single junction devices is 20 Milliamperes. Hence, a resistor
on the order of 470 ohms will produce a 12v/470ohm = 25mA current.
Right in the ballpark. The voltage drop for a single device is about
1.7 volts. The LED arrays you see on the backs of cars will hook
several devices in series (6 devices = approx 10.2 volts) so the
resistor drops to 2/0.020 or 100 ohms. For intermittent duty (like
a third stop light) an overdrive value of 30 to 50 milliamperes would
probably get you a lot more light without killing the LEDs.
The annunciation above is a simple indication of hot bus . . . in no
way is it useful for infligh failure annunciation . . . when the
bus goes cold, you won't need a light to tell you about it . . .
>Most car alternators I've seen have three connections (not counting the p
>lead). One is for ground, one is for excitation (+12) , and the last is
>for an alternator indicator light. It can be connected to a light that is
>rated for 12V and will come on when the alternator is not putting out
>much current (typical alt light on a car).
True . . . but current thinking about stock automotive alternators makes
this irrelevant . . . there ARE failure modes within all the
alternators I've disassembled that can produce over voltage runaways.
Modern ALTERNATORS are fine devices and quite worthy of installation
on airplanes provided you remove the built-in REGULATOR and
change the brush wiring so that an ov protected, external regulator
can be used.
>I just left it disconnected
>because I am using an EI volt/amp digital meter connected through the
>alternator p lead. This tells me directly how many amps (+/- .1) the
>alternator is putting out and the voltage the alternator is holding. If
>I turn off the field to the alternator (through a circuit switch) the
>meter tells me what voltage the battery is holding. There are other ways
>to connect the meter and all are explained very thoroughly in the
>instructions. This is the best solution IMHO.
No instrumentation either digital or analog is a substitute for
active, low voltage annunciation. Aviation history is replete
with stories where the writer says, " . . then the panel went
dark . . ." or " . . . pressed the mic button and nothing happened."
MOST of these cases involve silent failure of an alternator that
went un-noticed until things started dying. The 13.0 lv monitor
I described earlier will light the light in seconds after an
alternator shuts down.
>Each lead on the alternator is marked with a letter which is standard, I
>don't remember them off-hand but have them written down at home and will
>get them to you if needed.
Standard markings of stock automotive alternators should be replaced
by your own markings resulting from internal modifications described
above.
Bob . . .
*****************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong! *
*****************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
New web site at aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pump location |
>I am tinkering with my fuel system while waiting for the replacement fwd
>fuselage skin to arive (see earlier canopy trimming saga). Having liked the
>RV's I saw on the flightline which had no center console for throttle,
>mixture, etc, I have duplicated the idea on my plane. My detatched, floor
>mounted console has two fuel gauges and the selector valve installed. I plan
>to conceal the Facet pump inside this console also, floor-mounting it just
>below the selector valve.
Bill,
This is the common local Southern Calif. method for mounting the
fuel pump -- copied from Steve Barnard's award-winning RV6A.
A special fitting (coupler?), with male pipe thread on one end, and
a 37 degree flare swivel nut on the other end is used. This attaches the
fuel pump directly to the outlet of the fuel selector valve. A cross
bracket attached to the center console sides is used to support the pump.
I don't think this fitting has an AN number, but is available from
auto racing and industrial hose suppliers. I got one from Earl's - the
auto racing plumbing supplier.
It seems a much cleaner and nicer looking alternative to that
specified in the plans. Several flying RVs are using this mounting
position, with no ill effects.
... hope this helps .... Gil (hide the pump) Alexander
RV6A, #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>
>Both the plans and the Facet instruction sheet show the pump mounted at a 45
>degree upward angle, an arrangement which I cannot engineer into my chosen
>location. Is there a compelling reason to do it this way? Would it have
>anything to do with keeping the pump purged of air, or what?
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Van in Vall...(KIDDING!) |
>How is everybody supporting their uprighted fuselage? For now I have a
>sawhorse under the firewall and tailspring (putting in seat skins, etc.).
>
I had a support shaped to fit the fuselage bottom at the main spar bulkhead
and a heavy duty sawhorse about 10 to 12 inches forward of the back end of
the fuselage.
>I now need to climb inside to backdrill my top fuse skins, and later for
>instrument/systems installation. I'm 220+ lbs. I was thinking about wooden
>cradles underneath each bulkhead. Overkill?
>
When I had to crawl inside the tail cone I placed a 2" x 10" x ~6' board on
the bulkheads. I _very_ carefully crawled inside (believe me, I weigh more
than 220 pounds) when I had to fasten the tail end of the shoulder belts. I
figured the fuselage should be able to stand that kind of force since it
_is_ designed to take the shock of landings.
>A fellow lister suggested buying a troll. Anybody know where to get one of
>those ?
>
>After the fuse skins, I start on the wings, first step is pitot tube
>installation. I plan on a day/seldom night VFR setup. To those flying,
>should I go through the extra expense of a heated pitot tube? I've never
>used heat in my 200hrs, but then again So. California isn't exactly
>freezing. I will be flying lots of x/c.
>
I don't have a heated pitot in my -6 but, then, I don't fly in the rain
anymore than necessary. I have to add, though, that one time I had been
flying for two hours or so around Puget Sound and decided to stop at
Arlington Airport for lunch. When I slowed to pattern speed (~95 to 100
mph) I was CERTAIN that I was much slower. After flying around at 160 to
190 mph it felt like I was falling out of the sky at 100 mph. I had to keep
telling my self that the instruments were right; after all, the aircraft
_was_ flying fine.
>Thanks,
>
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
September 08, 1996 - September 18, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bw