RV-Archive.digest.vol-by
September 30, 1996 - October 07, 1996
< over it). I would absolutly call these "nasty spikes"!
How big is "nasty?" About 25 years ago I got verbally keel-hauled
by an old friend and mentor when I wrote a report for an
accident investigation using words like "lots" and "a whole lot
more", etc. "As engineers," he said, "we are not entitled to
speak in non-quantitative terms. To speak in mathmatically
vague terms allows our client's attorney the opportunity to
raise grave doubts about the validity of our opinions."
< Besides, a
< few milliseconds is an eternity to a semiconductor junction whose
< switching time is measured in nanoseconds.
As I write these words, the workbench behind me has an LED selected
at random from my parts drawers connected to a power supply. It's
a 20 milliamper rated device which I powered up last night at
60 milliamps . . . 300% overload. 14 hours (14.4 times ten to the
12th nanoseconds) the critter is still putting out the original
light level . . . .
< Couple this with a flyby
< of a radar facility (yes, they can couple in a LOT of power) and you
< have a recipe for a failed part. Yes it is only a 10 cent LED, but
< The nanosecond rise in current will not raise the temp of the device.
< That is the real killer. They should be able to be run at their rated
< current and not to worry about the quality of power to the degree you
< have described.
>>. . . . you aren't seriously suggesting that a flyby of a normal radar
>>facility at legal altitudes would measurably contribute to a blown LED are
>>you? That's a myth that needs to not get started here.
>Actually ... yes, on a part which is overstressed, it is called HIRF
>(High Intensity Radio Frequency) interference. You also aren't
>worried only about "normal" radar facilities. We tested flight deck
>equipment to levels that would kill the pilot (commercial aircraft)!
>I guess it is comforting to know that even though everyone on board
>the A/C may be dead, the FMS would still get the plane over the
>destination. You are right though, I really don't want to start that
>thread in a public forum, if you would like to discuss it further,
>EMAIL me directly.
Whoops! This is getting out of hand! I just got back from a trip to
and RFI test laboratory in California where we were conducting
rf energy effects on hardware destined for the flight deck of
an aircraft carrier . . . one of the most intense radar energy fields
on the surface of the planet . . . over 1,000 volts per meter.
Yet, with nominal care to avoid exposure, people work on and around
these systems as do airplanes and other on-board systems. Urban
legends get wrapped around the axle of ignorance when precise
CONDITIONS under which environmental stresses occur get blown
out of proportion. One of my favorite examples is a big flap
that ran throught he canard pusher crowd about 8 years ago concerning
placement of transponder antennas . . . seems builders were lining
their seat pans with tinfoil to protect the "family jewels" from
the 600W radar pulses from their transponder antennas mounted
on the belly. They figured that since a 600W microwave would
cook things, their transponder was equally endowed with distructive
qualities. The difference is that transponders put out a PEAK
power that is significant but only for microseconds at a time on
each interrogation. The AVERAGE power can certainly be no better
than the DC power drain times the efficiency of the transmitter times
the duty cycle of the emissions . . . a 200 watt transponder has an
AVERAGE output power of less than 1 watt . . . . hardly a threat
to the anatomy. Yet the rumors persist . . .
>I didn't necessarily mean to question his credentials, only a rather
>casual answer to someone who does not have the expertise to judge for
>himself the risks involved, especially on a flight safety indicator.
Casual?? . . . I thought I was being rather specific . . . my example cited
voltage levels and series resistor values that produced about a 20%
overdrive which I opined as insignificant based on past experience and
now confirmed by the experiment currently running on the workbench . . . .
>Quite frankly, I appreciate a measured opinion that may be a different
>but factual point of view. Even Bob has said "I don't usually DISagreed
>with Tony Bingelis but..." meaning even an icon is subject to scrutiny.
>Maybe I'm "electrically challenged" like Randall but its a pleasure to
>hear more than one idea from two degreed electrical engineers. There
I'm NOT degreed . . . took my last class at Wichita State in 1968 when
I discovered that I was learning more on the job than I was in school.
Local aircraft industry has been very good to me in opportunities for
learning AND jobs where I can excercise my talents.
>is merit in each point of view compared to some of the bs bantered
>about.
Which goes to the point I made about precise speech. . . .
When some environmental stress is desicribed as "sufficient to be
heard in my headphones" or "my CHT jumps all over the place
when I extend flaps," the speaker is being very precise as
to antagonist and victim. The fix cannot be prescribed until
LEVELS of stress versus PROPOGATION mode versus ability to
TOLLERATE interference are evaluated. I'll suggest that
"nasty" and "lethal levels of RF" are inflamatory, vague
and of no practical value in working any particular problem.
> Message "Re: RV-List: rv-list: Electrical wiring" could not be
> delivered to the following recipient(s):
> [70743,2727]
> [72770,552] . . . .
Sorry about the flood of "undeliverable" messages. I've been
out of town for three days and my Compuserve limit on mail
is 100 messages before the box overflows . . . My computer
was down with a sick motherboard while I was gone so Dee
couldn't collect my mail. Got the byte thrasher up
and running again . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://aeroelectric.com
p.s. This message laid in my out-box for awhile . . . decided to
jack the LED on the workbench to 100 milliamperes; 500% of rated
value. Like our friendly pink rabbit on t.v. it just keeps on
going and going and going . . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aol.com!McManD(at)matronics.com (by way of James & Mary Mc Phee <aol.com!McManD(at)matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | Cowl Bumps H2AD? |
RV 6 under construction, have 0320H2AD, and modified mount ordered from
Van's. Now I hear conflicting stories as to the need to bump cowl at
alternator and fuel pump areas. Any actual experiences appreciated. Any
other areas of concern your experience should have me aware of. BTW what car
alternator is 30 to35 amps and is popular with RVers. Internal or seperate
voltage regulators? Thanks greatly. McManD(at)aol.com
Hi there, my 1st message on the RV page.
I have an RV-6 with 260 hrs on it, 1st flight in Sept 1992, all with an O320
H2AD. Wes featured in the RVator in 1992 as well as Sport Aviation. Due to
the fuel pump access at the top LH front of the engine you will have to cut
a 2 inch round hole and fibreglass a "blister" to it, then if you want to
balance the look, do the same on the other side.
No doubt you are fitting a mechanical pump on, so to allow for engine
movement, the blister is a must. Re the alternator, all the builders in New
Zealand are using the alternator out of a Mazda 323 E5 (1984-89) series
which has no external blades, internal bearings are steel, built in
regulator. No cowl modifications required, only a little pulley bracket mod
which anyone can do.
I run Claus Savier's CDI system on the right mag driving all the bottom
plugs just like Jon Johanson, plus I have the cylinders ported which is
producing 185 hp. I also teflon treated the engine with Microlon. Treated
properly, the H is a really good engine. Hope it goes well for you. Also
you will have to make your own baffle kit and the firewall recess supplied
by van's will be in the wrong place. I manage fine without a recess even
though I have a full flow filter. Apart from the oil filler being over the
top basically everything else is straight forward.
James Mc Phee, Auckland, New Zealand. ZK-MRV S/No 20334
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixture controls |
>OK, so I'm from the bush. What's a "B" nut?
>
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>RV6 rear top fus skins
Peter, It's a method of attaching a control cable with a wire end to your
mixture control (or carb heat, or even throttle although I wouldn't use this
type of set up on the throttle.) For the mixture, the "B" but has a 1/4"
shaft that fits into the 1/4" hole of the mixture control arm and is held on
via washers and a cotter pin. There is a hole through this fixture through
which the wire end passes and there is a allen head set screw that clamps
down on the wire. I'm waiting for mine to arrive in the mail so now I have
drilled an extra hole in a AN4 bolt through which the wire passes. By
spacing this hole in the correct location, the wire is clamped into the hole
by a washer when the nut is tightened down. I believe this metod puts more
pressure on the wire and will replace it as soon as my "factory" "B" nut
arrives. ACS has the "B" nut listed in their catalog. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oversize Spar Splice Plate Bolts |
>When I recieved my RV-4 wing kit in April, it came with three extra bolts
>and three letters of explanation from Phlogiston Products, Inc.
>
> 1. A form letter (on Van's letterhead) that starts off..."To allow
>for the possibility of corrective action being taken in the event of
>mis-drilled bolt holes in the steel wing splice plates, we approve the use
>of NAS bolts up to .032 in. over the nominal size." It included a diagram
>of the splice plates with annotations showing exactly which bolt holes were
>affected and where each of the three different bolts went.
>
> 2. A form letter explaining that two of the three bolts were not
>"certs", i.e. the suppliers were not able to provide documentation, even
>though they came from known aircraft hardware suppliers with proper marking.
>And that if I was in no hurry they would be getting "certs" in the near future.
>
> 3. A letter explaining that the standard size aircraft washer will
>not fit the oversized bolts and recommending hardware store washers and
>making sure they are deburred and flat.
>
>I checked the fit of the oversized bolts today and found that one drops
>through both plates with about the same resistance (a little less actually)
>as a normal bolt in a normal hole but the other two only drop through one of
>the two matching plates...the threads go through but not the shank. Seems
>like a big hammer or ream job will be necessary.
>
>I emailed Van, back in April, to inquire how often this type of thing
>happens. Tom replied that it was "common". I hadn't checked the fit of the
>bolts at that time. I'm finally about to start assembling the spar and my
>question to you guys is, just how common is this really. I don't remember
>any such postings in the past year.
>
>John Brick
>jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
John,
I've never heard that this problem is common and I've hung around a few
RV's, built one and am building another.
On my first set of spars, all of the splice plate holes were way
undersized. I resorted to putting very fine emory cloth and then Scotch
Brite pads on a mandrel and polishing them out. (I also had primer in the
holes) On the second set of spars, after priming the flange strips, I
removed the primer in the holes while still wet. These splice plates were
closer to bolt tollerances. I still polished the holes out and custom fit
the bolts to the holes, numbering the bolts with a sharpie pen.
I assume the fit of the bolts is determined by whether the cutting tools
they use are new or have some wear on them.
You might try moving all of the bolts around to various holes to see if you
can achieve a better fit. As far as some of the bolts not being "certs", I
don't know. I wouldn't think Van would want anything sub-standard leaving
the shop. It sounds like Phlogiston might have made a small error in
drilling and this is the way to correct the problem. I'd probably trust
Tom's advice but wouldn't necessarily be happy with the situation.
Hopefully, you'll get some additional input from some RVer's with more
experience in this area.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Burlington (chatter) |
Well, I see that speedy Rod already gave you the scoop on the Burlington
Fly-in. I don't have much to add but do have a few additional comments.
It was great to meet fellow listers. I think we might have convinced Tony
Cochran, who flew in in his dad's T-18, to build a RV. (right, Tony?) (We
did let him park with us, by the way11.)
I really liked this little town, the very friendly people and the clear,
fresh air and almost unlimited visibility- 60 to 80 miles. I had a lot more
fun than at Van's home coming. I don't like flying in poor visibility and
am not a big fan of humidity. It sounds like they intend to make this an
annual affair whether Van's decides to have their homecoming there or not.
I sure would be more centrally located. North Plains is a long way away
from a lot of RVers.
I didn't tour Old Town during the day but the dinner was held there and
after I saw it was sorry that I didn't. I did visit Burlington's John
Stewart's RV-6A project and all I can say is WOW. I saw this project a few
months ago when the fuselage was upside down in the jig and told John that
it was one of the best jobs of workmanship I'd seen. It looked even better
sitting on the gear. I predict that you will see this plane featured in SA
one of these days.
We also saw a "primo" Lancair. The workmanship on this plane is flawless
as well. The shop is unbelievable. You could eat off the epoxy painted,
white floor. I vowed that when I got home, I'd close my eyes, light a stick
of dynamite and toss it in my shop. I can't even find the floor in my shop.
Of course, it's got Glastar parst scattered all over.
I really hope they make this an annual affair. I can't wait to go back.
John should have his 6A on the ramp next year and I'll bet it will be a
sight to see.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ACCPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Burlington Fly-in Report |
>John Darby, Steve?? Cochran and myself. Sorry if I forgot >anybody. It
>was a great time! I'd definitely encourage one and all to >attend next
>year!
>Best regards, Rod Woodard RV-8, #80033, Loveland, Colorado
It was Tony, but I understand Rob OOPS Rod :) and It was great meeting Bob
Skinner and all of the other RV's,I didnt even get that much grief for flying
my dads T-18...... thanks guys.
Tony Cochran
soon to be RV-6 builder (I hope)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Oversize Spar Splice Plate Bolts |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAE43.5C69CCA0
John,
Five of my bolts are oversized in my RV-6 spar from Phlogiston.=20
AL N162NV Res
I'm finally about to start assembling the spar and my question to you =
guys is, just how common is this really. I don't remember any such =
postings in the past year.
John Brick
jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Oversize Spar Splice Plate Bolts |
----------
From: Allan W. Mojzisik[SMTP:prober(at)iwaynet.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 1996 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oversize Spar Splice Plate Bolts
John,
Five of my bolts are oversized in my RV-6 spar from Phlogiston.=20
AL N162NV Res
I'm finally about to start assembling the spar and my question to you =
guys is, just how common is this really. I don't remember any such =
postings in the past year.
John Brick
jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)direct.ca> |
Hi All
I have been asked to ask if anyone has or knows where you can
get a materials list to build a 6. Ie how manys sheets or what size
extrusions etc etc. Trying to find list to avoid having to do a take off
from plans.
Thanks
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)world.std.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Fiberglassing question |
I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
RV-6A - cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Strange noise changes |
Today, returning from a very pleasant visit with Bob, Rod and others at
Burlington, about 45 minutes out, the engine just flat changed noise. I had
thought that my new Sensinich prop had a sound more like a helicopter. Not
rough or anything, just the noise. But out of the clear blue sky (and you
had to be there to know I really mean that as a description of a beautiful
flying day), the engine changed noises, no longer sounded sim. to a
helicopter. Nothing changed, not RPM, egt, cht, oil press, oil temp,vacuum
press, amp, volt, absolutely nothing changed (well, maybe my drawers) except
the type of noise. If anything, we thought the engine smoothed out a
little. After I continued home (my longest flight to date 3.2 hours) I've
gone over the thing very closely visually, and can find nothing that would
explain it.
I had lost my DG going up there Sat, so I suspected that maybe it was the
vac pump going or gone out, but the art/hor operated normal the rest of the
way home, as did the vac press indication.
My question, has anyone else experienced anything like this before. If so,
did you isolate what it was?
I put rings in it about 35 hours ago, some have said that rings may just
break in at a certain time with a noticeable change in cht and egt, but I've
discounted that.
Any ideas?
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>I am not sure of builders in Melbourne, but Mr. Darby is on your side of
>the world
>and I am sure he can let you know if he knows of any builders in your
>area.
>Rick Osgood
>RV6A builder in the frozen tundra of Minneapolis, MN
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
Rick; Ref. the Mr. Darby, are there two of us on the list? If not, I'm not
over there on that side of the world. Besides, I don't go by the Mr. stuff,
and besides that, I don't know much of anything! :-)
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6 Tail kit F.S. |
A friend of mine has s/n: 20032 RV-6 tail kit for sale in Southern
California. This is not a prepunched kit. No work has been done but the kit
has been inventoried. Asking price is $750.00 U.S. I can forward messages
to Bob or send his phone number if requested. Only interested parties should
e-mail me directly.
Gary RV-6, 20480 N157GS
e-mail: GASobek(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Booth Fans |
Joe Larson[SMTP:showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com] wrote:
>> I used three cheap box fans from K-Mart and stacked them one on top of
the
>> other in a frame that had round holes just exactly the same diameter as
the
>> fan blades.
>We've had numerous suggestions that the fumes we're dealing with are
>explosive, but no one has said they've had a real problem with this.
>However, if you're concerned about this, you *could* take the same
>box fans recommended above, disassemble them, and rebuild them with a
>lengthy belt arrangement such that the motor is isolated from the
>contaminated air.
>
>Alternatively, you can use a forced air system instead. Have the fans
>blow air into your painting area and allow for air escape elsewhere.
>Make sure both inflow and outflow are filtered.
>
>-J
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
>14190 47th Ave N.
>Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
My .02 here. I have never had an explosion. Additionally, it is better to
suck the air out rather than have it blown in. You will blow bugs, dust and
junk thru that filter....... I prefer to have it sucked out . Good
Luck!
+++++++++++++++++++
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
+++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
You wrote:
I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
Answer:
The literature and testing says that you must sand to glass fibers to get
a secondary bond (resin bonding to cured resin) as strong as possible.
Resin will stick to clean gel coat, and the more area you cover, the
stronger the joint. However, without sanding at all, or without sanding
down to glass, the stick is marginal and certainly not a structural bond.
I personally doubt that the scoop would fall off, but I would not
recommend the experiment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Materials List |
David W.S. King wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I have been asked to ask if anyone has or knows where you can
> get a materials list to build a 6. Ie how manys sheets or what size
> extrusions etc etc. Trying to find list to avoid having to do a take off
> from plans.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
You may get the preview plans direct from Van's. Dont know about
materials list. Question, why would you want just a materials list?
Rick
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
John Darby wrote:
>
> >I am not sure of builders in Melbourne, but Mr. Darby is on your side of
> >the world
> >and I am sure he can let you know if he knows of any builders in your
> >area.
>
> >Rick Osgood
> >RV6A builder in the frozen tundra of Minneapolis, MN
> >Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
> >
> Rick; Ref. the Mr. Darby, are there two of us on the list? If not, I'm not
> over there on that side of the world. Besides, I don't go by the Mr. stuff,
> and besides that, I don't know much of anything! :-)
> John D
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
Sorry John...I was always taught to respect and call my edlers by Mr.:)
I thought you were a down under type. Maybe Peter Bennett is my guy...
Rick
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming IO-320-B1A |
Bob:
My old hangar partner (RV-4, N144RS) used the IO-320 B1A engine on his -4.
The certificated installation of this engine uses a spacer at each engine
attach point. If I remember correctly, the spacer is about 1/4" thick. He
had a clearance problem until that portion of the factory installation was
duplicated.
Sump: On N144RS, the sump was removed and swapped with about $100 for an
updraft sump. I have a Cozy Builder friend who is doing the same with his
O-360. I suggested that he contact Dave Anderson engine parts in
Victorville, CA (919) 245-3363. He did and was told that Dave would swap
him sumps. I do not know the dollar amount.
Good luck and happy flying.
Gary
RV-6, 20480, N157GS
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
Aerospace Electrical Engineer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | John Darby (Chatter) |
>
>>I am not sure of builders in Melbourne, but Mr. Darby is on your side of
>>the world
>>and I am sure he can let you know if he knows of any builders in your
>>area.
>
>>Rick Osgood
>>RV6A builder in the frozen tundra of Minneapolis, MN
>>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>>
>Rick; Ref. the Mr. Darby, are there two of us on the list? If not, I'm not
>over there on that side of the world. Besides, I don't go by the Mr. stuff,
>and besides that, I don't know much of anything! :-)
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
Two John Darbys? That's hard to imagine. Not on the other side of the
world????
John, you're from Texas, aren't you? :) Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
>
> I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
>to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
>stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>csanchez(at)world.std.com
>RV-6A - cowling
Cheryl, This is the advice we were given by Stoddard Hamilton when we built
the Glasair. Sand it off down to the fiberglass. Be sure to wear a good
mask. If you could do this outside, it would be a great idea. Gelcoat dust
is nasty stuff.
In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
it sets up. Also, the MEKP catylist which is used in both is very dangerous
stuff. A drop in the eyes and it's 4 seconds til permanent blindness. If
you get MEKP on your skin, you can get a burn that will eventually heal but
will re-occur (continue to turn red and itch) over a two year period.
(Trust me, I know. I had a partner on the Glasair who was sloppy with paper
towel disposal after it was contaminated with MEKP)
Epoxy is a little less hazardous although some people have a reaction to
it. Be sure to wear gloves and a resparator. I think epoxy has superior
adhesive qualities when compared to polyester and it doesn't shrink as much.
Polyester shrinks for a long time after a part is formed. This shows up
very well on my RV cowl, which sat around for a few years before it was put
on the airplane and painted. I had all of the weave sanded out when it was
painted. Now, a year later, the weave is visible. The empenage fairing I
made out of epoxy has no weave showing and I didn't do near as much prep
work on it as I did the cowl.
Sorry to take up so much space but I get paid by the word:)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Olson <rolson(at)Capital.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Booth Fan |
Thanks for all of the good input... and some humor (I Think?). I've
decided to go with a regular fan and in fact located what appears to be an
industrial grade circulating fan at a garage sale for $5. this AM. I am
almost done building the enclosure and hope to have it done this week.
I spoke with the person whose set up I described in the original post and
he gave me another bit of advise that I think is worth passing on to the
list. He advised that if it becomes necessary to adjust the air flow
while painting to do it by placing additional filters in front of the fan
to restrict the flow rather then changing the switch which could cause a
spark.
Once the enclosure is done I'll start on George's practice kit and then
I guess I'm going to have to drill the first hole in the real thing! I
think the list is a great resource which I will consult often as the
project continues. I also have the good fortune of having several builders
in my area that I'm sure I'll be able to call on when needed.
Thanks again
Rich Olson
Saratoga Springs, NY
RV-6A
rolson(at)capital.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Tail kit F.S. |
aol.com!GASobek(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> A friend of mine has s/n: 20032 RV-6 tail kit for sale in Southern
> California. This is not a prepunched kit. No work has been done but the kit
> has been inventoried. Asking price is $750.00 U.S. I can forward messages
> to Bob or send his phone number if requested. Only interested parties should
> e-mail me directly.
>
> Gary RV-6, 20480 N157GS
>
> e-mail: GASobek(at)AOL.com
That is an old kit, #32 so you have to make more of the parts
yourself plus that is more than it cost new.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>>I am not sure of builders in Melbourne, but Mr. Darby is on your side of
RV>>the world
RV>>and I am sure he can let you know if he knows of any builders in your
RV>>area.
RV>>Rick Osgood
RV>>RV6A builder in the frozen tundra of Minneapolis, MN
RV>>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
RV>>
RV>Rick; Ref. the Mr. Darby, are there two of us on the list? If not, I'm not
RV>over there on that side of the world. Besides, I don't go by the Mr. stuff,
RV>and besides that, I don't know much of anything! :-)
RV>John D
RV>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
RV>johnd@our-town.com
Some of us consider TEXAS to be on the other side of the world! It was
nice to meet you at Burlington.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> >
> > I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
> >to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
> >stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >Cheryl Sanchez
> >csanchez(at)world.std.com
> >RV-6A - cowling
>
> ***stuff snipped***
> In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
> and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
> well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
> that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
> it sets up.
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
and Polyester come apart.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safe Paint Booth Fan--outside paint fan! |
I've refrained from this discusion but in the cold light of morning
could refrain no more. If you had an incident, we wouldn't even hear
about you, as such an accident would be hard to find on the net
(house or garage fire).
I work for an engineering firm which (among other things) investigates
fires and explosions. They tell me:
Working with hydrocarbon solvents which are both
volatile and sprayed (volatilized) in an environment including spark
sources is dangerous. If your atmosphere is in the flamability range
of the solvent-air mixture IN THE LOCAL AREA of a spark--wham, instant
flame front. The air in front of the flame front is being compresses as
the front expands, and the comression wave can cause areas which were
outside the flamibility range to be suddenly in it.
The critical mixture varies with solvent, but 4% to 14% solvent by vapor
volume is usually very dangerous. The investigators can tell where you
were in the range afterward by how much soot you made and whether or not
the pressure wave was strong enough to knock down doors, move walls etc.
If you are going to do this anyway, and I do not recommend it, your odds
are a little better if:
- Push solvent free air with your fan. If not, use a brushless motor.
- Do not turn on or off anything electric with the space full of vapor.
- Do not do this when a pilot light or open flame is around (space
heater, hot water heater, furnace). Fumes go under doors and through
air registers.
- Put a metal screen in front of flame paths, it sometimes stops
propogation of the flame front.
- Wear a respirator. It might keep you from burning your lungs in the
initial flash.
Ken Smith
RV6 empanage, with wing kit (resale) to be unpacked.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Canadian Fuel Flow Tests [2] |
Van's pump does put out 30 gph. I thought different because of a
similar part number in another catalog.
From Tom@Van's:
We only sell one pump and we have repeatedly tested them and found
30+ gph.
It turns out that that the problem was mine. It was a loose fitting on
the suction side of the pump. It didn't leak fuel but it was drawing
air.
There is now a flow of over 30 gph. Thanks for all of the responses.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
____________________________________________________________________
The Canadian inspectors have a convention they follow for fuel flow on
the required pre-flight test. A minimum size on the fuel lines is 3/8
O.D. and they must provide 24 gph with minimum fuel in the tanks at
maximum climb angle. They admit that this is way in excess of what is
required in FAR 23. It seems that a smooth 3/8 line attached to a tank
with a head typical of high wing aircraft will drain at 30 gph, hence
this convention.
Van's Facet pump provides only 15 gph.
To the Canadian builders on the list:
What has been your experience with this test?
Are you using the same pump that Van sells?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
>> In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
>> and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
>> well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
>> that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
>> it sets up.
>
>> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
>epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
>not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
>RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
>and Polyester come apart.
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
Jerry,
I wonder if the problem of de-lamination could be attributted to poor
surface prep, not removing gelcoat or contaminating the surface after it was
prepped? I have run across two RV builders who were ready to bond on the
scoop and had not sanded the gelcoat off. Is it possible that the bonding
surface was sanded too smooth for an optimum bond?
I'll pose this question to r.a.h. and see if there are any fiberglass
gurus who can answer this question. Of course, on this forum, it's
sometimes hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
Of course, bonding with polyester to polyester would be fine as they are
identical chemicals. I don't like the short working times involved when
doing larger lay-ups. I use polyester on ocassion and mix it hot when it's
a small lay-up and I'm in a hurry. In your opinion, would vinyl ester resin
be almost as good as poly? If so, you could gain a little in working time
and don't have to worry about whether to use bonding or finish polyester
resin. The vinyl ester sets up great and if mixed hot in warm weather can
be ready to sand pretty quickly but of course, working time is way down.
Also, vinyl ester resin doesn't have a very long shelf life, especially
after it's promoted.
The down side to epoxy resin is that it tends to run on verticle surfaces,
which surprised me the first time I used it. I guess that some cabosil
blended in tends to eleminate this problem. Note: Builders. If you use
epoxy, protect the surfaces "down hill" from your lay up area as gravity is
not epoxy's friend. Also, since epoxy should be used when bonding to plexy,
builder's always have extra around and it makes sense to me to use it on
other areas of the airplane instead of letting it go to waste.
I prefer to work with the vinyl ester because of the longer working time
when compared to poly. Because epoxy has even more working time, I
generally recommend it to novices to ease the construction process. I don't
like doing fiberglass work, no matter what the system and like to get
through it as fast and effeciently as possible.
Of all the RV's I've seen, and I've been hanging around them for several
years at OSH, S&F, Boone, North Plains, etc., I can only remember a few that
had cracking around the cowl scoop.
Bob Skinner RV-6 (no cracks yet in 1 1/2 years and 320 hours)
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
Need source of Avery kit. Is Avery the manufacturer or distributor ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Safe Paint Booth Fan--outside paint fan! |
Ken;
I like this kind of discussion. Gives notice of the inherent dangers, but
also gives 'if you do' then here is a way to do it with some concern for
safety, then it leaves a person to make up there own mind if they want to
take the risk. This is so much better than those statements that 'you
cannot do this thing'. We all take chances, for a relatively small
exposure, I can't see setting up a nuclear proof paint shed. If I were to
paint for a living and daily exposure, it would be a different thing.
I didn't ask the question, but I do appreciate your sensible (to me) answer.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Burlington Comments |
I know that those of you who did not attend have probably heard enough of
this subject, but humor me.
After seeing the beautiful aircraft there, with such expert workmanship, I
feel that I have absolutely no right to attempt to give advice to anyone as
to how to build an RV.
When I arrived, the ramp tie downs were all filled, the FBO told me I could
pull it off in the grass and use my tiedowns, he suggested an area behind
the hanger. Some one made the comment that 'someone had parked their a/c
away from the others, wonder why?'. Welll, after seeing those nice a/c on
the ramp, mine was where it belonged, like an ugly duckling, away from them.
But one thing in it's defense, It's living proof that you don't have to
build a perfect, beautiful a/c to fly and enjoy. So, for those of you that
are under construction, have heart. A slip on a rivet, a ding in the skin,
a blemish in the paint--it will still fly. And you can always park it
behind the hanger!!
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>Sorry John...I was always taught to respect and call my edlers by Mr.:)
>
>I thought you were a down under type. Maybe Peter Bennett is my guy...
>
>Rick
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Rick; It's bad enough to get old, but you really know how to rub it in,
don't you.:-). I think Peter is down that way. But Rod is right--- TEXAS
is sort of down under the rest of you.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Booth Fans |
>> I used three cheap box fans from K-Mart and stacked them one on top of the
>> other in a frame that had round holes just exactly the same diameter as
>> the fan blades.
> >We've had numerous suggestions that the fumes we're dealing with are
> >explosive, but no one has said they've had a real problem with this.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall from my electrical
machines class that AC motors don't use brushes or slip rings. The
principle of operation is rotating fields set up in the stator by the ac
current. If this is true, then the only spark risks are from
1. The switch, when one turns the motor on and off
2. Frying the motor and having something in the motor wiring short
out and arc
It seems to me that if one turns the fan on before spraying, and then
doesn't turn the fan off until after any explosive atmosphere has
dissipated, one should be safe from a fan-ignited explosion. Another
source of ignition to consider would be the switch on one's compressor.
My EE degree is 12 years old, and I'm a comm guy, not a machines guy, so
somebody please correct me if the above is incorrect.
Thanks,
tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Oversize Spar Splice Plate Bolts |
John,
I received my RV-4 wing kit in July. No problems at all with bolts, spars,
splice plates, or the fuse bulkhead.
Mike Wills
RV-4 building wings
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>When I recieved my RV-4 wing kit in April, it came with three extra bolts
>and three letters of explanation from Phlogiston Products, Inc.
>
> 1. A form letter (on Van's letterhead) that starts off..."To allow
>for the possibility of corrective action being taken in the event of
>mis-drilled bolt holes in the steel wing splice plates, we approve the use
>of NAS bolts up to .032 in. over the nominal size." It included a diagram
>of the splice plates with annotations showing exactly which bolt holes were
>affected and where each of the three different bolts went.
>
> 2. A form letter explaining that two of the three bolts were not
>"certs", i.e. the suppliers were not able to provide documentation, even
>though they came from known aircraft hardware suppliers with proper marking.
>And that if I was in no hurry they would be getting "certs" in the near future.
>
> 3. A letter explaining that the standard size aircraft washer will
>not fit the oversized bolts and recommending hardware store washers and
>making sure they are deburred and flat.
>
>I checked the fit of the oversized bolts today and found that one drops
>through both plates with about the same resistance (a little less actually)
>as a normal bolt in a normal hole but the other two only drop through one of
>the two matching plates...the threads go through but not the shank. Seems
>like a big hammer or ream job will be necessary.
>
>I emailed Van, back in April, to inquire how often this type of thing
>happens. Tom replied that it was "common". I hadn't checked the fit of the
>bolts at that time. I'm finally about to start assembling the spar and my
>question to you guys is, just how common is this really. I don't remember
>any such postings in the past year.
>
>John Brick
>jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which way should the nuts face on the spar bolts (by the |
604
bulkhead.)
The general rule of thumb is to instal bolts with the hear facing forward or up.
The thinking here is, if the nut drops off, gravity or retaltive wind (if
applicable) will keep it in place. Needless to say, this makes little sense
in some cases.
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
>
> My 619 floor ribs on my 6A do not have enough clearance for the spar bolt
> nuts. Which direction (facing front or rear) are we suppose to put the spar
> bolt nuts by the 604 bulkhead ? Does it matter ?
>
> Thanks in advance for anyone shedding some light ...
>
>
> Scott in Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | The jig is up... |
...for sale that is. I have a nice dual wing jig in the south SF bay area.
The jig is desin to provid 50" of work room between the wings. The first
$50 takes it. Cash and carry.
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
>>
>>Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
>>epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
>>not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
>>RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
>>and Polyester come apart.
>>--
>>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
snip>>>>>>>>>>
> Of all the RV's I've seen, and I've been hanging around them for several
>years at OSH, S&F, Boone, North Plains, etc., I can only remember a few that
>had cracking around the cowl scoop.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 (no cracks yet in 1 1/2 years and 320 hours)
>BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
I also used epoxy with no problems in the 2 + years I've been flying.
By the way...Bob actually built a Glassair before he built a "Real Airplane"
so if he says it works, I'll bet it does.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Moving instrument panel |
Thanks to all regarding your comments on moving the RV-4 panel forward.
Another remedy to the "close" proximity of the panel I have seen is to
modify the front seat back to allow it to lean a little further aft. This
is done by modifying the rollover A-frame and also the upper corners of the
front seat back. Just a thought...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Schmidt/UB Networks <Mike_Schmidt(at)UB.com> |
| Subject: | Need advice on problem with seat ribs |
>I am building an RV6A and have the fuselage with all bulkheads in the jig.
>The problem is the front seat rib web faces (616,617,618) does not lie flush
>against the 604 bulkhead ( it is the wrong angle and slants away from the
>604 1/8 of an inch, note: the rear seat rib web is sitting on the 605
>bulkhead where it is suppose to go ). We have double checked all alignments
>and dimensions on the bulkheads. Has anybody had problems with these seat
>ribs ? I seem to remember reading that there was some error in the fuselage
>area that was never fixed. I can rebend the front seat ribs so that they
>will angle correctly to be flush against the 604, but have not seen this
>much error in the parts before anywhere else. This is a new kit having been
>received 5 months ago. Also, the 604 has a fake wood spar in it that exactly
>mirrors the real one ( it is laminated marine plywood, planed to within 5
>thousands accuracy), so the 604 is straight and has been triple checked
>where it is suppose to be.
>
>Totally concerned what to do next. Any suggestions ?
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Scott,
I'm new on the list, about a week. Hello everyone, some neat stuff going on
here. I've just finished that area on my fuselage recently and did not have any
problem with the forward flanges on the seat ribs being deformed to the degree
that you mention. My fuselage kit is about a year old. Parts like these seat
ribs usually come stacked together. If a stack of these were dropped on end it
could cause the flanges to be bent. As I see it, the important factor here to
keep in mind is the distance between the F604 and F605 bulkheads. These
bulkheads must be spaced to match the spacing of the front and rear spars of
your wings. The main component that determines this distance are the outboard
seat ribs (F619 I beleive). The indoard seat ribs should be perpendicular to
the F604 and F605 bulkheads. I would just reform the forward flanges on the
seat ribs to fit the F604 bulkhead. The F605 bulkhead bottom should remain
parallel with F604.
Mike Schmidt
mschmidt(at)ub.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>Need source of Avery kit. Is Avery the manufacturer or distributor
Both, either or neither depending on the specific tool! :-)
Their info. is as follows:
Avery Enterprises
2290 W. Hicks Road, Hangar 54-1
Ft. Worth, Texas 76131 U.S.A.
Orders: (800)652-8379
Info.: (817)-439-8400
Fax: (817)439-8402
They have pre-packaged kits in the $1,100, $550, and $425 range. You can
put your own "package" together and receive from 5 to 7% off the listed
prices depending on how much you spend--between $600 and $1,000+. They
have a 90 page catalog that I'm sure they'd send to you if you called
and asked.
Good luck with your search.
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Burlington Comments |
John,
My RV-4 isn't any show piece either, but I built it myself, painted it
myself, and did it in 13 months; I'm damn proud of it. Maybe the next
one I build I'll take more time but I wanted to FLY!
Shall we have an ugly duckling fly-in?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, John Darby wrote:
> the ramp, mine was where it belonged, like an ugly duckling, away from them.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avery tool kit |
Both phone number 817-439-8400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
From: GJGP22B(at)prodigy.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Avery tool kit
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] --
>
> Need source of Avery kit. Is Avery the manufacturer or distributor ?
Call Bob and Judy Avery at 1-800-OK-AVERY!
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> So I want to build an RV and I'm just wondering if enyone can give me
> some information as to the tools that I will require.
The "What Tools do I need" section of the RV-List FAQ is a good
place to start. I believe that document is sent to all new rv-list
subscribers.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Bob Skinner wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
> > >to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
> > >stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >Cheryl Sanchez
> > >csanchez(at)world.std.com
> > >RV-6A - cowling
> >
> > ***stuff snipped***
>
> > In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
> > and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
> > well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
> > that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
> > it sets up.
>
> > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
> Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
> epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
> not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
> RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
> and Polyester come apart.
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
Jerry, If I understand you correctly you're saying to use
polyester resin on the fiberglass cowl from Van's because
it's constructed from poly. And not to use epoxy resin based
fiberglass because of the incompatibility. How about the
rest of the fiberglass parts from Van's. I'll be doing my
canopy soon and will be jumping into fiberglass work feet
first.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Bumps H2AD? |
>I run Claus Savier's CDI system on the right mag driving all the bottom
>plugs just like Jon Johanson, plus I have the cylinders ported which is...
>
>James Mc Phee, Auckland, New Zealand. ZK-MRV S/No 20334
I am considering this engine as well. Is the CDI system completely
independent of the left mag? More specifically, if the shaft driving the
dual magneto fails does the electronic ignition keep the engine running?
Thanks,
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Avery tool kit |
>RV>Need source of Avery kit. Is Avery the manufacturer or distributor
>They have pre-packaged kits in the $1,100, $550, and $425 range. You can
>put your own "package" together and receive from 5 to 7% off the listed
>prices depending on how much you spend--between $600 and $1,000+.
You can also add to their kits, and get the 10% discount on anything you
add. (Well, I did, anyway!)
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LED's et. als. |
<< seems builders were lining
their seat pans with tinfoil to protect the "family jewels" from
the 600W radar pulses from their transponder antennas mounted
on the belly. >>
You mean the the foil goes on the seat... Now you tell me... Jeez, do you
know how much that stuff chafes?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Burlington Comments |
> Some one made the comment that 'someone had parked their a/c
> away from the others, wonder why?'. Welll, after seeing those nice a/c on
> the ramp, mine was where it belonged, like an ugly duckling, away from them.
I have never heard *anyone* say bad things about anyone else's flying RV.
It's a major accomplishment to get the plane in the air! Everyone
recognizes that, especially the people who have their own flying. The only
thing anyone should be ashamed of is if they cut corners on safety.
That said, remember something else -- you can always *improve* your
plane. A nice paint job can sure spruce up a plane. Even smaller things
can help out. Add some nice grips to the sticks. Do something about the
cheesy cover over the baggage area. Replace the placards with something
more attractive. Heck -- just keep the cockpit clean and organized...
You can be near the bottom on the "spiffy factor" in the RV area at
flyins and still be flying a heck of a lot nicer plane than 90% of
the rest of the pilots...
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
chester razer wrote:
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> > Bob Skinner wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am working on my cowling and am about to glass the air scoop
> > > >to the bottom cowl. My question is: Do I have to sand off the white
> > > >stuff(gel coat?) on the parts where they will be fiberglassed?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >Cheryl Sanchez
> > > >csanchez(at)world.std.com
> > > >RV-6A - cowling
> > >
> > > ***stuff snipped***
> >
> > > In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
> > > and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
> > > well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
> > > that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
> > > it sets up.
> >
> > > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
> >
> > Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
> > epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
> > not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
> > RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
> > and Polyester come apart.
> > --
> > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> > jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
> Jerry, If I understand you correctly you're saying to use
> polyester resin on the fiberglass cowl from Van's because
> it's constructed from poly. And not to use epoxy resin based
> fiberglass because of the incompatibility. How about the
> rest of the fiberglass parts from Van's. I'll be doing my
> canopy soon and will be jumping into fiberglass work feet
> first.
> --
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)egyptian.net
Chet
VERY DEFINATLY USE EPOXY ON THE CANOPY AREA, Polyester will do ugly
things to your nice clear canopy even the Polyester fumes working close
to your canopy will not do it any good.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strange noise changes |
other things deleted:
>Today, returning from a very pleasant visit with Bob, Rod and others at
>Burlington, about 45 minutes out, the engine just flat changed noise.
After I continued home (my longest flight to date 3.2 hours) I've
>gone over the thing very closely visually, and can find nothing that would
>explain it.
>Any ideas?
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
Hello John,
The thing that sent up a flag was "(my longest flight to date 3.2 hours)".
I think, really, that this is what I've heard over mountains at night. It's
called automatic rough. I've heard every valve clang up and down.
I hope that that is what you described. From the other indications, you
have a perfectly good motor.
Mike Weller
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
one.net!rust47rg(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
> >>epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
> >>not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
> >>RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
> >>and Polyester come apart.
> >>--
> >>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> >>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
> snip>>>>>>>>>>
>
> > Of all the RV's I've seen, and I've been hanging around them for several
> >years at OSH, S&F, Boone, North Plains, etc., I can only remember a few that
> >had cracking around the cowl scoop.
> >
> >Bob Skinner RV-6 (no cracks yet in 1 1/2 years and 320 hours)
> >BSkinner(at)krvn.com
> >
>
> I also used epoxy with no problems in the 2 + years I've been flying.
>
> By the way...Bob actually built a Glassair before he built a "Real Airplane"
> so if he says it works, I'll bet it does.
>
> Regards:
>
> Rusty Gossard
> N47RG RV-4 Flying
I am certainly not questioning Bobs ability I was just passing on what
I have seen and have been told by the resident expert glass airplane
builder on our field (of course his is not a real airplane it is a
Lancair 360 :-) )
It will be interesting to see what Bob finds out in his search for the
truth.(g)
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hagen <chagen(at)iw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adj rudder trim |
Ronald M. Dunn wrote:
>
> Saw a couple dozen RVs at the Bartlesville OK fly-in last weekend. Talked
> to many RVers. But there was one owner that I missed. I sure would like to
> talk to the owner of a RV-4 that had three axis adjustable trim. The RV-4
> was red over white with a sliding canopy and its N number was 770DH.
> Anybody know who this plane belongs to?
>
> Ron (waiting on wings)
>
> Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
> rdunn(at)ionet.net
> Broken Arrow, OK
Ron,
The guy who owns N770DH is:
David E. Hilker
Box 877
Cimarron, Kansas 67835
The aircraft info:
RV-4
Built 1990
By Joe Meyer
Serial # 2021
Registration date is May 17, 1994
Engine is 0-320 Lycoming
This info was found using www.landings.com which is the best aviation
internet tool I have seen.
Best,
Craig Hagen
chagen(at)iw.net
RV6A #NB1893 reserved
garage almost done, dreaming almost done, work to start December 1st
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
General Question:
A local builder, upon return from OSH. told me that Continental were selling
their equivalent (0-320)engine to anyone for about $2 grand less that the
OEM deal at Van's. Something to do will latching on to the Glasstar market.
Anyone else heard this rumor?
What is the model number for the Continental?
Will a Continental engine fit? (new mount possible?)
Any problems to be aware of?
Thanks
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Finishing Kit Arrival |
At long, last the finishing kit will arive tomorrow:
Ordered: 5/5/96
Scheduled ship date: 8/5/96
Arrives: 10/1/96
By the way, the shocker was the shipping charge. The shipping on the
fuselage kit was something like $71, and $100 for the wing kit. The
shipping charge for the finishing kit will be $213.
This thing's starting to look like an airplane.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
aol.com!K8DO(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << seems builders were lining
> their seat pans with tinfoil to protect the "family jewels" from
> the 600W radar pulses from their transponder antennas mounted
> on the belly. >>
>
> You mean the the foil goes on the seat... Now you tell me... Jeez, do you
> know how much that stuff chafes?
For those that are interested,there will be a fly in
at Lebanon Tn OCT 5TH ...
SPEED DASH RACE'S,3 CLASSES,BEST RV-4,RV-6 ALSO
PARA DROP
SPOT LANDING ,ETC......
INFO CALL ME
JOHN MCMAHON 615-452-8742
________________________________________________________________________________
Can someone please walk me thru acessing the archives! Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
<< Jerry, If I understand you correctly you're saying to use
polyester resin on the fiberglass cowl from Van's because
it's constructed from poly. And not to use epoxy resin based
fiberglass because of the incompatibility. How about the
rest of the fiberglass parts from Van's. I'll be doing my
canopy soon and will be jumping into fiberglass work feet
first.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
>>
Don't use polyester resin anywhere near plexiglass. I believe the volitale
portion of the polyester resin is what causes the plexiglass to craze.
Rocky took an extra year to finish his RV-3, because he used polyester resin
for the skirt around the plexiglass canopy. Even with a layer of aluminum
foil between the plexiglass and the fiberglass lay-up, the plexiglass canopy
was scrap.
Anyone else have this experience???
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Painting Fan (chatter) |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Enough of this Apollo space program approach to homebuilding! I'll bet
the Spirit of St. Louis wasn't painted in a downdraft paint booth!
Everything doesn't need to be gold-plated to work in aerospace.
I just painted my wings using a $16 fan drawing air out of my garage
through a furnace filter, used a frame with 3 filters in it in a side
door for a filtered air inlet. Only one explosion of any note. NOT!!
Seriously, has anyone got a non-hearsay account of a homebuilder or hot
rod mechanic actually elevating the roof because he was unlucky enough to
achieve the correct volatile vapor to air ratio for combustion. Until
then, spare me the "sky is falling" routine.
Wings Painted! (and I did use a Hobbyair respirator - highly recommended!)
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)indirect.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
For those contemplating fiberglass work, but dreading this journey into
the demon's lair, be assured that all is not as bleak as it appears.
That guru of Oshkosh, no, not Van, but the pickle-fork master himself,
Burt Rutan, has provided for your trepidation!
I too regarded fiberglass as the devil's work, so I ordered the Rutan
composite practice kit from Aircraft Spruce (about $45, I think). This
kit includes a brief layman's discussion of what you need to know about
resins, fiberglass cloth,flox, microspheres, etc., and how to work with
them. It then provides the materials and instructions needed to build a
couple practice parts to learn the techniques and see how hard it is. In
one week's time, I built a flat panel layup, a foam core
"confidence-building" strength test item, and the most complex bookend
one could ever wish to build. These three projects demonstrate every
skill required to build a Long-Eze with the exception of hot-wiring foam.
I think if you have the skills to build Long-Eze parts you will then
feel comfortable working on the RV's few fiberglass parts. In one week I
went from dreading all fiberglass work to thinking how I might want to
use it elsewhere in the RV (sacrilege!!)
Hints to consider: Use West Systems epoxy (avail from Aircraft Spruce)
with their handy mini-pumps - no measuring or fussy scales to deal with.
It also sands very easily. Aeropoxy is a very reputable company as well,
highly regarded by the composites weenies. (Their lightweight filler is
super to work with and sand) Yes, there is a lot of sanding to get a
good finish, and it is very messy/dusty - do it outside and wear a mask.
Lastly, I like the heck out of the workability of the West Systems epoxy
I use - can't speak for polyester resins' workability, but these are what
we have been traditionally warned not to use over epoxy (IAW Bingelis, et
al). Epoxy is generally approved for use over polyester, but you always
need to prepare the subsurface well.
This was a longer post than intended. Bottom line: don't use this
massage or other rv-list threads to decide your fiberglass gameplan. Get
educated on the subject by the experts and then decide for yourself. I'd
call Rutan an expert.
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)indirect.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Burlington Comments (chatter) |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Dan Boudro wrote:
>John,
>My RV-4 isn't any show piece either, but I built it myself, painted it
>myself, and did it in 13 months; I'm damn proud of it. Maybe the next
>one I build I'll take more time but I wanted to FLY!
>Shall we have an ugly duckling fly-in?
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, John Darby wrote:
>
>> the ramp, mine was where it belonged, like an ugly duckling, away from them.
Dan:
No airplane that flies as well as yours is an ugly duckling. You have
every right to be damn proud of the "Roadrunner." Of course, when mine
gets done (SOON) you'll have to "Check Six!"
And I'll be proud of every drop of blood it drew from me and every
smiling rivet. Okay, maybe not every smiling rivet.
Wings painted (no, it doesn't hide the smiling rivets)
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)indirect.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | MAC Elevator Trim |
Hi all,
I picked up the following off rec.aviation.homebuilt:
____________________________________________________________________
The pushrod supplied with the MAC elevator trim system failed on a
Capella
XS equipped with a Rotax 582 engine after approximately 300 hours of
service. This resulted in severe tail oscillations and extreme control
difficulty but the pilot managed a forced landing in the Everglades
without
personnal injury or further damage to the aircraft.
Owners of a Capella or any other aircraft equipped with the MAC trim
system should discontinue flight operations until a suitable
replacement
has been determined.
For further information, please see "Service Advisories" located on our
web
site at: http://www.capellakitplanes.com
______________________________________________________________________
I have no comment right now, but I notice that the pushrod supplied
with my RV-8 trim system is the threaded rod mentioned on the web site.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #00121
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nose Wheel Fork Cracks |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
RVers:
I recieved a letter from Van's yesterday warning of possible
manufacturing induced cracks on the front wheel fork. I've not
inspected mine yet to see if I have a problem. Has anybody out there
inspected theirs, and if so, who has found a problem?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Mailbox Overflow . . . |
My computer went down Tuesday, had to leave town Wednesday
and Dee was unable to empty my mailbox while I was gone.
It overflows at 100 messages and won't accept any more.
I'm getting indications from a number of folk that messages
to me have gone unanswered . . . can't answer them if I
don't see them!
My appologies. If anyone has something "in the pipe" that's
more than three days old, please resend the message. I've
cleared the decks of traffic that was waiting for me and
if I've left someone hanging, it's because I didn't see
their message.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Burlington Comments |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
In fact, the "improvements never seem to end sometimes. After almost 800
Hrs flying isn three years, I'm still "improving" areas all the
time....... Wing root fairings, new & better wheel pants, electric
flaps, autopilot (Centry I) and cockpit cleanup, just to mention a
few...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:39:59 -2900 (CDT) showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com
(Joe Larson) writes:
>That said, remember something else -- you can always *improve* your
>plane. A nice paint job can sure spruce up a plane. Even smaller
things
>can help out. Add some nice grips to the sticks. Do something about
the
>cheesy cover over the baggage area. Replace the placards with something
>more attractive. Heck -- just keep the cockpit clean and organized...
>
>You can be near the bottom on the "spiffy factor" in the RV area at
>flyins and still be flying a heck of a lot nicer plane than 90% of
>the rest of the pilots...
>
>-J
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
>14190 47th Ave N.
>Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Wow, If that's the case, they're giving it away, or even giving you cash
to take it! Vans' oem proce is only $18,000........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>General Question:
>
>A local builder, upon return from OSH. told me that Continental were
selling
>their equivalent (0-320)engine to anyone for about $2 grand less that
the
>OEM deal at Van's. Something to do will latching on to the Glasstar
>Anyone else heard this rumor?
>What is the model number for the Continental?
>Will a Continental engine fit? (new mount possible?)
>Any problems to be aware of?
>
>Thanks
>Royce Craven
>roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival |
>At long, last the finishing kit will arive tomorrow:
>
>Ordered: 5/5/96
>Scheduled ship date: 8/5/96
>Arrives: 10/1/96
>
>By the way, the shocker was the shipping charge. The shipping on the
>fuselage kit was something like $71, and $100 for the wing kit. The
>shipping charge for the finishing kit will be $213.
>
>This thing's starting to look like an airplane.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>RV-6 sn 23744
>
>
>
>
That shipping charge is about right, about 2 -3 times the other kits. Van's
told me that the canopy was the culprit. The rest of the kits are
classified as bulk raw aluminum, but the finishing kit is considered
"aircraft parts". They used another carrier, other than Roadway, to send my
finishing kit. The shipping company takes responsibility for the canopy if
they break it. They have broken a few in the past and had to replace them.
I guess you're closer to Van's than me. My bill was $350 for the finishing
kit shipping :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel Fork Cracks |
Fred,
Yes, I received the same letter and I checked my fork. I had a hard time
distinguishing between scratches and cracks. I used a magnifying glass and
found what may be a crack. I thought I would take the fork up to an A&P and
have it checked. I would say it's a definite maybe. I'm at a loss to
understand why we would also have to return the front gear leg with the fork
though.
-Gene
>RVers:
> I recieved a letter from Van's yesterday warning of possible
>manufacturing induced cracks on the front wheel fork. I've not
>inspected mine yet to see if I have a problem. Has anybody out there
>inspected theirs, and if so, who has found a problem?
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strange noise changes |
Check to see if a gromet moved on the firewall. Did you change anything?
BTW, I notice on my aircraft that the noise change as I past through 80 Kts.
Don't know what it is either. Exhaust redirecting, Prop bitting, ????
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
>Don't use polyester resin anywhere near plexiglass. I believe the volitale
>portion of the polyester resin is what causes the plexiglass to craze.
>Rocky took an extra year to finish his RV-3, because he used polyester resin
>for the skirt around the plexiglass canopy. Even with a layer of aluminum
>foil between the plexiglass and the fiberglass lay-up, the plexiglass canopy
>was scrap.
>Anyone else have this experience???
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
Jim; I'm certainly no expert with fiberglass, but one question. Seems that
Vans instructions mentioned don't get one kind of stuff on the plexi, but
that you can put one layer of X on the canopy, and after that work with Y
because it is easier to work with and that the one layer will 'protect' the
plexi. That is the way I followed instructions and don't have any crazed,
discolored, screwed up plexi. Maybe I was just lucky. Well, not exactly, I
do have one small crack, but that was before the fiberglass stuff came on line.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Jig quesitons |
I am about to build a jig for my wings, thinking of a dual jig with about
30"between wings using catelevered support. Basically I'd use the emp jig
with cross member removed (its anchored floor and ceiling) and BIG cross arms
to support the wings. Any body already do this? Any advice?
Jon Scholl
Starting RV6 Wings
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Ok, this one's a little embarassing so let's just keep it our little
secret.
How can I identify the ad-41-xx pop rivet used in the leading edges of
the rudder and elevator? I am suddenly worried that I used the wrong ones
in my rudder. In general, is there a source of specs on pop rivets?
I was only able to id the cs4-4 from the description in the Avery Catalog.
Yours sheepishly..
John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Archives - search engines |
If you have access to the World Wide Web (I heard it's fairly easy from
AOL), try this site:
http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/
It seemed to work better for me than the search on Matt's web page
(maybe because fewer people were using it?). It should be relatively
self explainatory once you get there.
Either of these "search engines" make wading through the massive number
of mail messages easy (I do have a T-1 line at work though, so with a
14.4 or less modem, it may go slowly). How well you pick your words to
search on is key to getting enough, *but not too many*, returns.
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 09-30-96 FROM SMTPGATE (AV8RRR(at)aol.com)
Can someone please walk me thru acessing the archives! Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Archives - search engines |
If you have access to the World Wide Web (I heard it's fairly easy from
AOL), try this site:
http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/
It seemed to work better for me than the search on Matt's web page
(maybe because fewer people were using it?). It should be relatively
self explainatory once you get there.
Either of these "search engines" make wading through the massive number
of mail messages easy (I do have a T-1 line at work though, so with a
14.4 or less modem, it may go slowly). How well you pick your words to
search on is key to getting enough, *but not too many*, returns.
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 09-30-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (AV8RRR(at)aol.com)
Can someone please walk me thru acessing the archives! Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Fan (chatter) |
How did I know this message was from Mike after reading the first sentence?
Well, his paint job has turned out really nice, I must admit he knows what
he's talking about.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Mike Kukulski wrote:
> Enough of this Apollo space program approach to homebuilding! I'll bet
> *snip*
> Mike Kukulski
> kukulski(at)indirect.com
> RV-4 N96MK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Wing jig has been claimed |
The dual wing jig that I offered yesterday has been claimed.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ernstrm(at)alpha.hendrix.edu (Richard Ernst) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig quesitons |
Jon Scholl asks:
>I am about to build a jig for my wings, thinking of a dual jig with about
>30"between wings using catelevered support. Basically I'd use the emp jig
>with cross member removed (its anchored floor and ceiling) and BIG cross arms
>to support the wings. Any body already do this? Any advice?
I did exactly this, but with about 48" between the wings (this is plenty).
The whole thing is rigid, pretty compact and worked well. I put angled
support arms from the top cross arms to the uprights, just as one has on
the single wing jig in Van's manual, to prevent the cross arms from
bending. The only inconvenience with this setup is that one needs to crawl
underneath the wing or the crossarms that support the rear spar in order to
reach the inside of the jig.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard M. Ernst ernstrm(at)alpha.hendrix.edu
Department of Physics office: (501) 450-3808
Hendrix College
1600 Washington Ave.
Conway, AR 72032-3080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
| Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube |
I can provide the heated pitot tube mounting bracket in paintable or
chrome plated. Send me your address and I will send you a flyer on my
product.
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Dr.
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Heated pitot tube
Date: 9/27/96 7:24 PM
Well they (read government types) are finally going to allow Canadian VFR
pilots to fly over the top of clouds. One of the restrictions is that we
have to have a heated pitot tube.
On my RV-4 I have the standard bend tube and it has worked well but I will
have to change it now.
Any suggestions about types to use and installation hints would be appreciatted.
Thanks in advance.
Tom Martin
RV-4
the RaVen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
This may be of interest to those building RV-8's (or willing to go through
the hassle of installing in a -4 or -6):
**********************************************************************
IO-360-C1E6 ( 200 HP w/CS ) Lycoming:
Engine 1380 TTSN, "Zero" SMOH, was left engine out of a Piper Seneca.
Hasn't run since in the 1970's... Properly, stored since removed.
It was for an "Express S-90" homebuilt project, now considering sale...
Chrome cylinders, and new accessories (ignition system, etc.)
Over $9,000 recently spent on this complete overhaul with Lake Aero Repair.
Overhaul and assembly performed by an experienced A&I ...
It's ready to bolt on and fly... Have logs, this engine is certified!
Minnepolis suburb of Lakeville, Minnesota
Asking $15,500 ...
* Also have a propeller - Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF/F7666A-2:
Never been flown ... Because of age this propeller may need an
estimated $1,500 dollars worth of hub overhaul/repair. The blades
are in excellent shape. this prop has been carefully stored.
Recent (6/96) appraisal reports that this propeller cost $8,470 (new) today.
Asking $5,800 ...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frank Hanish | EAA, EAA A/C, EAA 25, AOPA
H. 612/941-9671 | PP-ASEL High Performance &
W. 612/828-0582 | Taildragger Endorsements
FAX 612/828-0299 | 1960 BE35-33 Debonair, N937T
mailto:frankh(at)apertus.com
http://web.apertus.com/~frankh/
http://web.apertus.com/~frankh/eaa25.shtml
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)CHI.NTSB.GOV> |
| Subject: | Accessory case wanted |
Does anyone have an extra O-320E or D accessory case with a fuel pump
pad? Reply off list.
Mitch Robbins
robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel Fork Cracks |
<< I recieved a letter from Van's yesterday warning of possible
manufacturing induced cracks on the front wheel fork. I've not
inspected mine yet to see if I have a problem. Has anybody out there
inspected theirs, and if so, who has found a problem?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com >>
Kinda weird finding that in the mailbox huh? Ugh a Van's "AD". Luckily I
hadn't painted mine yet, but I did have primer on it. After carefull removal
of the primer I couldn't find any signs of cracking even with a magnifying
glass.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | It's at the airport! |
Yahoo! N427EM is at the airport. I thought I'd post some of the trials and
tribulations that this journey tossed our way to make it a little easier for
someone else.
First off, my 18' X 61/2' trailer wasn't quite wide enough. (can you say 2"
too narrow? Argh!).
The plans show a 6' 8" width of the main gear (6A) to the CENTER of the tire
tread. Well, when you add on the *rest* of the tire and those monstrous axle
nuts, you can figure 7' plus a little change.
A friend of mine had just rented a 26' Uhaul truck one way from Salt Lake to
Boise to bring an ultralight home. It turns out he had the truck for one
more day. (amazing how things go right once in a while).
The interior width of the truck was 7' 4" - plenty. However, the door
opening is about 7' 1" - kinda close. The back side of the wheel wells of
the truck are 7' from the door, and in a fit of intellingence we figured out
that putting it in backwards would not only keep us from having to somehow
get the gear OVER the wheel wells, but also would give a firm stop to the
wheels to cinch the plane down.
Make sure you have planks for the main gear at least 12' long though, because
you have to get the main wheels started up before the tail gets to the box or
it won't clear the floor; then with one person pulling on the back end and
one pushing on the crank flange the tail gets VERY close to the top of the
truck but does fit. When the mains get to the door they are about 1' too
wide. One person on each gear leg can compress them toward the middle so you
have a whopping half inch or so of clearance.
We then pushed it tight against the wheel wells and used tiedowns on the main
gear back to hooks in the walls. It worked out very well after the initial
head-scratching.
After driving it VERY carefully to the airport, we unloaded it and noticed
the G-meter read +4 and -2! Wow.
Anyway, it's there, then wings and tail can go back on, and the she hopes to
fly in October!
Ed Bundy (breathing just now returning to normal)
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
>>By the way, the shocker was the shipping charge. The shipping on the
>>fuselage kit was something like $71, and $100 for the wing kit. The
>>shipping charge for the finishing kit will be $213.
Sheesh! The shipping on my *empennage* was US$250 which meant I had a total
of over NZ$800 (US$560) (mostly GST on the emp, but also a whole lot of
customs clearance, etc) to pay before I could pick it up :-(
And then I had to carry it home on my back for 8 hours in the knee-deep snow...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig quesitons |
That's about what I did, except I had 50" between wings. I used the 4X4
uprights from the stab jig and added 2X2X.125" steel angle supported by
threded rod. From the end it looked something like this;
_
| |
| |<---4X4 Redwood
| |
| |
/| |\
/ | | \ <--Threded rod w/turnbuckle
/ | | \
/ | | \
/ | | \
=========|=|========= <--2'X2"X.125 Steel angle
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
=========|=|========= <--2'X2"X.125 Steel angle (support for rear spar)
| |
| |
Chris
>
> I am about to build a jig for my wings, thinking of a dual jig with about
> 30"between wings using catelevered support. Basically I'd use the emp jig
> with cross member removed (its anchored floor and ceiling) and BIG cross arms
> to support the wings. Any body already do this? Any advice?
>
> Jon Scholl
> Starting RV6 Wings
> bcg007(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net> |
Has anyone received their copy yet? I received an e-mail from Van's almost
a month ago, saying it was delayed due to OSH. Of course, the good news is
that when they finally come (assuming that the SEP/OCT issue is on
schedule), I'll be in pig heaven for awhile.
J.C. Hassall
jhassall(at)ipass.net
Raleigh NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Lanier <rla469(at)airmail.net> |
I'm a new subscriber to this system and have been reading the e-mail between
you guys for about a week now. I must say that you have sure kept me
entertained!
I recently received a letter from Van's Aircraft stating they are willing to
ship partial RV-8 wing kits without the spars.
I am looking for input from any other RV-8 builders on their decision to
receive partial shipments on the wing kits or wait for the whole shebang. I
completed my empennage kit over 1 month ago and have been anxiously awaiting
the wings. Who else out there is in the same boat?
Rob Lanier
RV-8 awaiting wings in Dallas
rla469(at)airmail.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
What is the appropriate compound for bedding the canopy edges on the RV-6
tip-up where the plexiglas contacts the bow at the rear of the tip-up frame?
I've got a few gaps I'd like to fill in with something to prevent stress
points when the rivets are popped in place. Also, is it necessary to use
some type of sealer between the fwd fuselage skin and the rear window plexi
to keep rain and wind out? This is a forward-facing lap joint, and although
it looks tight, it worries me that it might leak a bit. Any suggestions
appreciated.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel Fork Cracks |
I had mine looked at by a Level 3 NDT tech at a Nuclear Power Station. The
entire Inservice Testing Team got involved in the effort (almost all airplane
nuts). The die penetrant testing was expanded to include all the welds when
some surface indications were spotted.
Bottom line, despite the tech being a Glassair builder (but a great wing
rivet bucker), was a clean bill of health. Some very minor porosity where
the welds ended, and some minor surface cracking along the weld/big block
interface. None of any depth. The area of concern was completely clean.
They were highly impressed by the quality of the aluminum welding, and these
guys are critical!
Bruce Patton
Done with the Canopy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Engine and prop on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Accessory case wanted |
Send your acces case to Divco (advertisement in trade a plane)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENGELHART(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corner fuel tank attach nut plate |
Gary,
Thanks much for the reply. I will definitely try the approach you mentioned.
Scott Engelhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENGELHART(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank attach nut plates |
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. The nutplates listed in Van's catalogue are not dimpled
( I bought them). Keep on building !
Scott Engelhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hollendorfer <phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JUL/AUG RVator? |
>
> Has anyone received their copy yet? I received an e-mail from Van's almost
> a month ago, saying it was delayed due to OSH. Of course...
>
J.C.
I just had the same question today and called Van's....The young lady
that answered, in fact, said that the Aug & Oct RVators were still as
yet to be completed and that it would be a "few weeeks yet until they
were ready". Not exactly what I wanted to hear either, but I'll be
waiting with bated breath.....Fred>
Fred Hollendorfer
RV-8 Not yet started
Gotta modify the Garage first!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENGELHART(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank attach nut plates |
Randall,
Thanks for the reply !!! I will try my luck with Spencer Aircraft tomorrow.
Scott Engelhart
RV6-A in WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I was wondering if one of you guys could look up the CG range of for me
from
your plans? I am building a one of a kind homebuilt with the same airfoil
(NACA 23015) as an RV and was wondering what percent of airfoil the RV uses
for the CG range. Thanks for any and all help. >>
Van's establishes the CG range for the NACA 23013.5 airfoil used in the RV
series aircraft as 15% to 29% MAC for normal operations and limits the aft CG
to 26.5% MAC for aerobatics. For reference the MAC for the RV-6 is 58". As
you are no doubt aware, this does not necessarily mean that any aircraft
using this airfoil can safely use the same limits. Safe limits for your
design are influenced by other planform design aspects, some of which are
tail moment, gross weight, etc.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Lanier <rla469(at)airmail.net> |
Are there any other RV-8 builders that have completed their empennage and
are awaiting the wings? I received a letter in the mail this week stating
Van's is willing to ship partial wing kits without the spars. Is there
really an advantage to receiving a partial kit? Any input is appreciated!
Rob Lanier
RV-8 Empennage Complete
Dallas
rla469(at)airmail.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
>>>By the way, the shocker was the shipping charge. The shipping on the
>>>fuselage kit was something like $71, and $100 for the wing kit. The
>>>shipping charge for the finishing kit will be $213.
>
>Sheesh! The shipping on my *empennage* was US$250 which meant I had a total
>of over NZ$800 (US$560) (mostly GST on the emp, but also a whole lot of
>customs clearance, etc) to pay before I could pick it up :-(
>
>And then I had to carry it home on my back for 8 hours in the knee-deep snow...
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
And I bet it was uphill all the way------.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: It's at the airport! |
>Yahoo! N427EM is at the airport. I thought I'd post some of the trials and
>tribulations that this journey tossed our way to make it a little easier for
>someone else.
>
>-
>After driving it VERY carefully to the airport, we unloaded it and noticed
>the G-meter read +4 and -2! Wow.
>
>Anyway, it's there, then wings and tail can go back on, and the she hopes to
>fly in October!
>
>Ed Bundy (breathing just now returning to normal)
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
Congratulations, Ed; now the work begins. At least you can see the light at
the end of the tunnel. I expect to see you at the next Arlington Airfair.
We'll save a big slab of barbarqued salmon for you.
I recently bought a flat bed car hauler trailer with the hopes of being able
to haul RV's to the airport. Unfortunately, it's 6'8" wide measured from
the inside of the metal sides. Do you think that if we used strap winches
on the gear legs that we'd be able to force them to fit inside the 'walls'
of the trailer? The 'walls' are only about 3 inches high so there is still
the option of placing a piece of plywood for the wheels to roll onto.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing Kits |
The partial kit will allow you to build the control surfaces and prepare
some other parts. Van's says that it will be another six weeks for a total
kit. They also said it will not cost any more to ship the kit in two
shipments, so it seems that there is no lose if you take the partial
shipment. Most RV-8 builders said they are taking the partial shipment. I did.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
>
>I'm a new subscriber to this system and have been reading the e-mail between
>you guys for about a week now. I must say that you have sure kept me
>entertained!
>I recently received a letter from Van's Aircraft stating they are willing to
>ship partial RV-8 wing kits without the spars.
>I am looking for input from any other RV-8 builders on their decision to
>receive partial shipments on the wing kits or wait for the whole shebang. I
>completed my empennage kit over 1 month ago and have been anxiously awaiting
>the wings. Who else out there is in the same boat?
>
>Rob Lanier
>RV-8 awaiting wings in Dallas
>rla469(at)airmail.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: pop rivet id? |
> How can I identify the ad-41-xx pop rivet used in the leading edges of
> the rudder and elevator? I am suddenly worried that I used the wrong ones
> in my rudder. In general, is there a source of specs on pop rivets?
>
> I was only able to id the cs4-4 from the description in the Avery Catalog.
When you received everything from Van's, the little bags included
descriptions of what was in each bag. If you then religiously transferred
things to some other container and carefully copied down what was in the
bag onto the container, then you should be able to figure it out.
When I got to this stage, I looked at the original parts list, then
used the quantity field to see how many pounds of each rivet there was
supposed to be. It's all relative, but you only have a few of some, but
a ton of the others, so it's pretty easy to tell which is which.
However, the leading edge rivets are not really that critical, or Van
would have you using them a lot more frequently than every 2 inches.
There's no structural holding here -- it's just there to keep things
tight. If you used the wrong ones, I wouldn't sweat it. Worse that
happens -- you'll run short later on.
But remember -- the CS4-4s are countersunk. The AD-41-XXs are kind of
small and not countersunk. If you have one of each in your hand, you'll
be able to see a difference in shape.
And if I'm wrong on any of this, someone please correct me.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safe Paint Booth Fan--outside paint fan! |
Someone claimed this was noise and rumor. I touched our files today, and
found the following cases (ones handled by the engineering firm for which
I work):
92 Aerosol paint can explosion
86 fire in paint spray booth
86 airless spray gun ignited
81 Flourescent lamp ignited paint spray
85 Fire ignited by wood stove during spraying of adhesive sealant
Sorry, these are about all the details available for a fre quickie
publicly disclosed search. Should satisfy those who think it can't
happen. It can, has and should be avoided if possible.
Ken Smith
RV-6 tailfeathers
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing Kits |
>
>I'm a new subscriber to this system and have been reading the e-mail between
>you guys for about a week now. I must say that you have sure kept me
>entertained!
>I recently received a letter from Van's Aircraft stating they are willing to
>ship partial RV-8 wing kits without the spars.
>I am looking for input from any other RV-8 builders on their decision to
>receive partial shipments on the wing kits or wait for the whole shebang. I
>completed my empennage kit over 1 month ago and have been anxiously awaiting
>the wings. Who else out there is in the same boat?
>
>Rob Lanier
>RV-8 awaiting wings in Dallas
>rla469(at)airmail.net
>
When I was building my RV-6 I had the same problems most of you RV-8
builders are having now. I had to wait for the wing spars while I was
cutting out the holes in the wing ribs. Actually, you should ask Jerry
Springer about his building problems. Since he finished his RV about a year
earlier than I did I'm sure he had much more troubles than me. All I can
suggest is that you spend your time planning your panel. My advice is to
plan what you want in your panel but don't buy anything until you have to.
With the price of instruments and avionics coming down it makes no sense to
buy before you need to.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Well folks, I received no input from the gurus on r.a.h. concerning epoxy
to poly ester bonding.
Also, I sure don't disagree with Jerry. Polyester on polyester sure
should be compatible. However, the short working time could make a begginer
a little frustrated when the resin pops off only half way through the job.
It's not too much of a problem when it does. Just wait for it to dry, sand
it down and try it again.
One reason I recommended epoxy is that you'll have some on hand from doing
the canopy and it's easier for beginners to use. I think that vinyl ester
would also work and it has the advantage of a longer working time. With
either poly or vinyl ester, you can increase working time by not using as
much MEKP. Of course, if you use too little, it will take a long time to
set up and I always wonder about integrity when I don't follow the instructions.
I've never used any of the polyester that ACS sells, for example. All of
the poly that I've bought was purchased locally from a boat shop or
automotive supply house. These all specified counting drops of MEKP. The
vinyl ester that we used on the Glasair and now on the Glastar has
measurements for catalyst in cc's for various desired cure rates. I feel
that the vinyl ester and the epoxy resin wets the cloth faster than the
poly. The poly esters I've used always seem to take longer to wet out the
cloth.
Speaking of cloth, I used a cloth on my RV that seems similar to the cloth
that Stodard Hamilton uses. I got it from ACS and it's the 8.92 oz/sq yd
cloth with the thread count of 60 x 54. It produces a finer finish that
requires less filling and sanding, IMO. I tried some of the coarser weaves
of bid cloth that I think is recommended in the manual but didn't care for
it much.
Most everyone on this list ('cept us Nebraskans) probably knows someone in
their EAA chapter or at the airport that knows fiberglass. Get together
with them and have them show you how to do FG work. If you're real smart,
you'll do like my RV friend in Grant NE did. Just play dumb and get a
Varieze builder to do your fiberglass work. (Those FG guys are a little
slow. Comes from not wearing a mask at all times). As a matter of fact,
he's supposed to lay up 4, RV-6 empanage fairings for me out of a mold that
I made as payment for me loaning him my Croix turbine, yuk, yuk. He still
hasn't caught on:) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: canopy bedding |
>What is the appropriate compound for bedding the canopy edges on the RV-6
>tip-up where the plexiglas contacts the bow at the rear of the tip-up frame?
> I've got a few gaps I'd like to fill in with something to prevent stress
>points when the rivets are popped in place. Also, is it necessary to use
>some type of sealer between the fwd fuselage skin and the rear window plexi
>to keep rain and wind out? This is a forward-facing lap joint, and although
>it looks tight, it worries me that it might leak a bit. Any suggestions
>appreciated.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
>
I used a marine product. It was a two part epoxy adhesive filler. Can't
remember the brand name but any similar product should
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Booth Fan
Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM
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VNM3036: Don DeMarco@Buhr@UMTel
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---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Richard
Olson ,I think that I would get a cheap die grinder,mount a fan
blade on it and restrict the air supply to get propper fan r p m. It should
be real flash-proof.
Ferdfly(at)AOL.COM Fred Laforge RV-4 trying to find a good 180 hp Lyc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Page Restored... |
For those of you that may have had problems accessing the Matronics
Web pages in the last few days, the service has been restored and should be
working normally again. Also, the RV-List search engine is working well
again. The ISP made a number of changes to the system's directory
structure and failed to mention it to the customers...
Please let me know if you are having continued problems accessing the
Matronics web pages or if things like the search engine don't seem
to be working. I generally don't regularly test everything and rely on
users to "complain". It seems like the ISP is always making changes
that have an impact on the system.
For those that are unaware of the URL for Matronics, it is:
http://www.matronics.com
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matronics
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
>
> The
> >>shipping charge for the finishing kit will be $213.
>
> Sheesh! The shipping on my *empennage* was US$250 which meant I had a total
> of over NZ$800 (US$560)
sorry, can't resist the one-upsmanship--- geez, I didn't want to risk
scratching the canopy when I picked up my finish kit, so made a SECOND
trip, that's 36 miles round trip. Do you know what traffic's like on
hwy26 around 5pm?.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need advice on problem with seat ribs
Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM
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VNM3036: Don DeMarco@Buhr@UMTel
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---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Scott Johnson
wrote:
>
> I am building an RV6A and have the fuselage with all bulkheads in the jig.
> The problem is the front seat rib web faces (616,617,618) does not lie flush
> against the 604 bulkhead ( it is the wrong angle and slants away from the
> 604 1/8 of an inch, note: the rear seat rib web is sitting on the 605
> bulkhead where it is suppose to go ). We have double checked all alignments
> and dimensions on the bulkheads. Has anybody had problems with these seat
> ribs ? I seem to remember reading that there was some error in the fuselage
> area that was never fixed. I can rebend the front seat ribs so that they
> will angle correctly to be flush against the 604, but have not seen this
> much error in the parts before anywhere else. This is a new kit having been
> received 5 months ago. Also, the 604 has a fake wood spar in it that exactly
> mirrors the real one ( it is laminated marine plywood, planed to within 5
> thousands accuracy), so the 604 is straight and has been triple checked
> where it is suppose to be.
>
> Totally concerned what to do next. Any suggestions ?
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
I am at the same stage,and having same problem.I have read some where
that the rear of the seat ribs have incorrect angle!!!I BELIVE I HAVE
THE FIX FOR IT.
JOHN MCMAHON
GALLATIN ,TN
615-452-8742
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture controls
Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM
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that the recipient's group still exists.
---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------OK, so
I'm from the bush. What's a "B" nut?
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 rear top fus skins
>
> The hole in the mixture control arm is 1/4". I bushed it down to 3/16" so
> today took the bushing out and made a "B" nut out of a AN 4 bolt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Olson <rolson(at)Capital.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safe Paint Booth Fan--outside paint fan! |
Well, I guess that adds some fuel to the fire! :-) ... and leads to
several questions:
* Are the numbers shown the number of incidents?
* How long a period of time is this from and how wide an area?
* Does your company handle most incidents in the country?
* Because there is a separate category for fluorescent lights... does
that mean that would be the worst choice for lighting?
Another question I had in reference to your comments about the percentage
of volatiles in the air.... is there any way to estimate that? My next
door neighbor who is into Formula V racing and the subsequent need to
paint after every crash opinioned that you would have difficulty seeing
more then 8 or 10 feet at those concentrations spraying paint properly
thined? ... I have no idea if this is even close to true. Maybe someone
experienced in taking these measurements could comment on what it normally
looks like when things are getting close to critical.
Electric motors... I haven't seen any replys to the question about brushes
in electric motors... but I did turn my fan on in the absolute dark of the
basement and could see no sparking which is normal from brushes. Could be
something going on inside that I can't see... don't know.
Finally... I wonder how much impact these HVLP guns would have on the
number of incidents? They seem to put so much less overspray in the air.
Rich Olson
RV-6A
Saratoga Springs, NY
Building Paint Area
rolson(at)capital.net
=========================================================================
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, The Smiths wrote:
> Someone claimed this was noise and rumor. I touched our files today, and
> found the following cases (ones handled by the engineering firm for which
> I work):
>
> 92 Aerosol paint can explosion
> 86 fire in paint spray booth
> 86 airless spray gun ignited
> 81 Flourescent lamp ignited paint spray
> 85 Fire ignited by wood stove during spraying of adhesive sealant
>
> Sorry, these are about all the details available for a fre quickie
> publicly disclosed search. Should satisfy those who think it can't
> happen. It can, has and should be avoided if possible.
>
> Ken Smith
> RV-6 tailfeathers
> kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | c2j4u7rm(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
Rob,
That was my empanage that I finished in six days that I referenced
in my previous message. Wasen't exactly clear on that, was I?
Louis Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | c2j4u7rm(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing Kits |
Rob,
I faxed in my request for my partial wig kit monday. I built a -4
in 1991 and have pretty good records on all of the extras that were needed
during construction. My -8 is #80126 and my father and I finished it in six
consecutive days. I have also purchased all of my other goodies inclucing
engine, prop, avionics, etc. We opted for the partial kit since we have
completely worked out at this point.
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
North Carolina
>
>I'm a new subscriber to this system and have been reading the e-mail between
>you guys for about a week now. I must say that you have sure kept me
>entertained!
>I recently received a letter from Van's Aircraft stating they are willing to
>ship partial RV-8 wing kits without the spars.
>I am looking for input from any other RV-8 builders on their decision to
>receive partial shipments on the wing kits or wait for the whole shebang. I
>completed my empennage kit over 1 month ago and have been anxiously awaiting
>the wings. Who else out there is in the same boat?
>
>Rob Lanier
>RV-8 awaiting wings in Dallas
>rla469(at)airmail.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: canopy bedding |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Bill:
Use ProSeal. It makes for a water tight seal, and is flexible & paintable......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>What is the appropriate compound for bedding the canopy edges on the
RV-6
>tip-up where the plexiglas contacts the bow at the rear of the tip-up
frame?
> I've got a few gaps I'd like to fill in with something to prevent
stress
>points when the rivets are popped in place. Also, is it necessary to
use
>some type of sealer between the fwd fuselage skin and the rear window
plexi
>to keep rain and wind out? This is a forward-facing lap joint, and
although
>it looks tight, it worries me that it might leak a bit. Any suggestions
>appreciated.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Wheel Fork Cracks |
Fred,
I looked at mine as soon as I got the letter no cracks. I would say to all to
do the inspection just for safty sake . Fly safe....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: canopy bedding |
>What is the appropriate compound for bedding the canopy edges on the RV-6
>tip-up where the plexiglas contacts the bow at the rear of the tip-up frame?
> I've got a few gaps I'd like to fill in with something to prevent stress
>points when the rivets are popped in place. Also, is it necessary to use
>some type of sealer between the fwd fuselage skin and the rear window plexi
>to keep rain and wind out? This is a forward-facing lap joint, and although
>it looks tight, it worries me that it might leak a bit. Any suggestions
>appreciated.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill;
For the bedding, one thing you may want to consider is a black rubber
tape, they imply that it is uncured rubber. Looks like a thick version of
the plastic elec. tape, but is not shinney. The cable tv, telephone and
water well people use it to wrap electrical connections and keeps them water
proof. It's about 1/16 thick. Makes a good 'bed' for that joint you mention.
The rear of the forward canopy, I fiberglassed a band that lays over the
rear canopy. My band is about 3 inch front to rear, with about 1 inch that
lays over the back plex. This band is curved at the bottom rear, and the
plexi itself fits under the rear skin, with the fiberglass part over the
joint. There is no forward open lap joint when done this way.
Incidentally, the band over my canopy rear is made into a fg cover that is
down the side panels of the canopy and into the forward skin to canopy
fairing. So the canopy has a one piece fairing all the way around it.
Maybe this will give you some ideas to play with.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy bedding |
>>What is the appropriate compound for bedding the canopy edges on the RV-6
>>tip-up where the plexiglas contacts the bow at the rear of the tip-up frame?
>> I've got a few gaps I'd like to fill in with something to prevent stress
>I used a marine product. It was a two part epoxy adhesive filler. Can't
>remember the brand name but any similar product should
Marine-Tex is one brand name; great stuff. Comes in gray and white;
the gray is labeled for "fiberglass" bonding ...
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Tony B's (short) guide to Fiberglass |
This topic seems to be getting a lot of airtime, so I searched through
my magazine library and found a great article by Tony Bingelis in the
February 1996 Sport Aviation issue.
Quotes you may find useful:
" Surfacing or sanding (finishing) resin (PRS). This polyester resin
contains wax which rises to the surface and cures to a hard tack free
finish...It does have a drawback. If you later want to add additional
layers of resin and fiberglass (after the initial finishing resin layup
has completely cured), you must first sand the surface until all traces
of surface glaze are removed. If you don't do this, any additional
resin or fiberglass...will not adhere very well..."
"Epoxies adhere well when applied over polyester surfaces, however, do
not attempt to use polyester resin over an epoxy surface."
" Most kit furnished molded fiberglass components are made not with the
more expensive epoxy resins but with the more economical ployester
resins. Unfortunately, polyester resins will continue to shrink
slightly after they have cured initially.
This shrinking process may continue for months...fiberglass fibers
[then] become more prominent because the glass fibers...cannot shrink."
"...epoxey resins do not shrink in curing...not as likely to
suffer...that characteristic..."
Tony also notes that builders who have their fiberglass components
around for a long time (months? years?) will not notice the shrinking
problem after initial sanding, as the shrinking will have ceased.
Hope this helps!
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 10-01-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (BSkinner(at)navix.net)
Well folks, I received no input from the gurus on r.a.h. concerning epoxy
to poly ester bonding.
Also, I sure don't disagree with Jerry. Polyester on polyester sure
should be compatible. However, the short working time could make a begginer
a little frustrated when the resin pops off only half way through the job.
It's not too much of a problem when it does. Just wait for it to dry, sand
it down and try it again.
One reason I recommended epoxy is that you'll have some on hand from doing
the canopy and it's easier for beginners to use. I think that vinyl ester
would also work and it has the advantage of a longer working time. With
either poly or vinyl ester, you can increase working time by not using as
much MEKP. Of course, if you use too little, it will take a long time to
set up and I always wonder about integrity when I don't follow the instructions.
I've never used any of the polyester that ACS sells, for example. All of
the poly that I've bought was purchased locally from a boat shop or
automotive supply house. These all specified counting drops of MEKP. The
vinyl ester that we used on the Glasair and now on the Glastar has
measurements for catalyst in cc's for various desired cure rates. I feel
that the vinyl ester and the epoxy resin wets the cloth faster than the
poly. The poly esters I've used always seem to take longer to wet out the
cloth.
Speaking of cloth, I used a cloth on my RV that seems similar to the cloth
that Stodard Hamilton uses. I got it from ACS and it's the 8.92 oz/sq yd
cloth with the thread count of 60 x 54. It produces a finer finish that
requires less filling and sanding, IMO. I tried some of the coarser weaves
of bid cloth that I think is recommended in the manual but didn't care for
it much.
Most everyone on this list ('cept us Nebraskans) probably knows someone in
their EAA chapter or at the airport that knows fiberglass. Get together
with them and have them show you how to do FG work. If you're real smart,
you'll do like my RV friend in Grant NE did. Just play dumb and get a
Varieze builder to do your fiberglass work. (Those FG guys are a little
slow. Comes from not wearing a mask at all times). As a matter of fact,
he's supposed to lay up 4, RV-6 empanage fairings for me out of a mold that
I made as payment for me loaning him my Croix turbine, yuk, yuk. He still
hasn't caught on:) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
Subject: RV-List: Re: 320B1A sump change
Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM
error codes.
VNM3036: Don DeMarco@Buhr@UMTel
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---------------------- Original Message Follows ---------------------- I have
an IO-320-B1A engine. I also had to change the sump, in
order to mount the injector on the bottom. I called a place in Texas,
called Bobbys Plane Parts. I can't locate my receipt, so I don't have
his address or phone#. Maybe someone else on the list can provide it.
I called around and found that he had the best price on a used sump.
My engine has the oil supply to the pump incorporated in the sump.
The part# I have is Sump #74375. You will also need to replace all
four of your intake tubes, as yours will not fit the replacement
sump. Mine are #74084W.
The parts he sells are used, I found that 3 of the
tubes on the sump were loose, and one of them had been
cracked and rewelded. These tubes are the type that taper, and very
expensive. I had the cracked one replaced, and the other loose ones
tightened by Divco, here in Tulsa. I later found out that I can rent
the tool to tighten and install the tubes myself from Sacremento
Skyranch for $45 a week. Rats! Just my luck! I paid quite a bit more
than this to Divco. Good Luck!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working fwd top fuse skin
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
Subject: RV-List: CG Range
Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM
error codes.
VNM3036: Don DeMarco@Buhr@UMTel
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recipient's mail service are working properly and
that the recipient's group still exists.
---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------I was wondering
if one of you guys could look up the CG range of for me from
your plans? I am building a one of a kind homebuilt with the same airfoil
(NACA 23015) as an RV and was wondering what percent of airfoil the RV uses
for the CG range. Thanks for any and all help.
Mike Mims
mikemims(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig quesitons |
Nice picture, chris.
I had to print it out so I had a hardcopy.
That's the first time I received a picture that was viewable after it had
been sent.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Van's establishes the CG range for the NACA 23013.5 airfoil used in the RV
series aircraft as 15% to 29% MAC for normal operations and limits the aft
CG
to 26.5% MAC for aerobatics. For reference the MAC for the RV-6 is 58". As
you are no doubt aware, this does not necessarily mean that any aircraft
using this airfoil can safely use the same limits. Safe limits for your
design are influenced by other planform design aspects, some of which are
tail moment, gross weight, etc.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
>>
I agree with Gary, but I feel the forward limit determination needs to be
emphasized.
The forward C.G. limit is determined by the airfoil pitching moment and the
tail authority to control the pitching moment. Whatever the RV design has
for a forward C.G. limit, is unique to that total system.
And the aft C.G. limit is flight critical.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A powered RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing Kits |
<< With the price of instruments and avionics coming down it makes no sense
to
buy before you need to.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com >>
Electronic avionics prices may be coming down, but the mechanical gages (g
meters, altimeters, airspeed indicators, etc.) have continually gone up.
Watch the prices. Buy what is going up in price as soon as possible, and
wait on the rest.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A powered RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
<< And then I had to carry it home on my back for 8 hours in the knee-deep
snow...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
You forgot the part about it being up hill both ways... :-)
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
,
| Subject: | Magellan GPS 2000 |
rv-list(at)matronics.com;
kitfox(at)colorado.edu;
europa(at)avnet.co.uk
>Bob,
>
>Just read your nice article in the October Comanche Flyer and I agree
>with most of what you wrote. It seem less than economical to spend
>two thousand dollars on a GPS when most of the same info can be obtained
>on a much less expensive version. . . . . .
The operative words here are "most of the same" to which I would
add "most of the time."
>the 2000 have adequate reception when being used "inside" the environs
>of a Comanche, or whatever? It's been my experience that if a GPS
>does not have an externally mounted antenna, acquisition of
>the required number of satellites is difficult. I also understand
>that an antenna kit is not available for the 2000, only the 4000,
>and at a price of $139.99.
All of my experience with the GPS-2000 in cars and airplanes
has been with the receiver up on the cowl deck or dashboard
to maximize view of the sky out the windshield. The receiver
annunciated adequate view of sky for navigation most of the time.
On occasion, it would flash a warning for a few seconds to a
minute or so. Right after an 90-degree change of heading at 160
kts, it would get confused and take perhaps a minute to two
minutes to get back on track.
>Until recently, I flew BE-90's for an air ambulance company here in
>Albuquerque. They provided some fancy "handhelds" for us to use when
>flying into some out-of-the-way places we frequented. An antenna was
>attached to the GPS and had a little suction cup to hold it in the side or
>front wind screen, moving it around to obtain better reception.
>Anyway, I would be somewhat concerned about a unit without some type
>of external antenna.
>
>If you have a moment, let me know what your experience has been with
>an in-flight situation using the 2000.
In no way am I suggesting that inexpensive hand-helds are a
REPLACEMENT for the more expensive panel mounts or hand helds
with external antennas. The thrust of the article was to suggest
that pilots NOT PUT OFF buying a GPS receiver because they
cannot currently afford the one they want. I'll further suggest that
a $200 hand-held can put the miracle of GPS navigation in IMMEDIATE
reach of everyone while they save up the bucks for their
"dream" receiver. When the big guy gets bolted to the panel,
the little guy can retire to the map case as a handy backup
for panel mounted stuff. Yes . . . the GPS 2000 does drop
out from time to time under certain conditions but by-in-large,
I found it's performance in terms of continuity of updates entirely
ADEQUATE for VFR navigation. I don't think I'm in too much
danger of getting lost for the few minutes that the little feller
goes off in the corner to think about where we're at! When it
does know where we are, it's accuracy was as good as or better
than the panel mounted Loran-C.
Thank you for your feedback!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
****************************
* Go ahead, make my day. *
* Show me where I'm wrong! *
****************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Tree <gtree(at)renschler.com> |
I have a question for those who have used the Avery rivet squeezer. I
have purchased one with a 3" yoke but it is back ordered. Would I be
better off to get it with the longeron yoke? If I do, will I still need
the 3" yoke? I'm just getting started on the empenage and don't expect
to get into the wings until next year. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Gary Tree
gtree(at)renschler.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <bn(at)crosslink.net> |
| Subject: | Adel part number vs MS part number |
Does anyone have a cross reference from Adel part number
to a MS21919 part number, or can you tell me how to decode the
Adel number? ie 414S10-6, 414S12-8, 414S16-8,
414S20-8, 414S4-6, 414S8-6, 414S3-6
Bob Newman
bn(at)crosslink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Lanier <rla469(at)airmail.net> |
Thanks to all the builders who responded to my wing kit dilemma. I have
decided to go ahead and place my order for the partial kit (it seems if I
wait, you guys are going to be flying your RV-8's before I am - that just
won't do!).
Thanks for the input.
Rob Lanier
RV-8 #80134
Awaiting Wings
rla469(at)airmail.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer |
I'm working on my empennage and have the 3" yoke only. I have come across a
number of areas where the longeron yoke would have been useful and considered
buying it but got sticker shock. Keep in mind that the longeron yoke is too
big to fit in a number of tight areas especially around the trailing edges of
the control surfaces. Maybe you could consider the longeron yoke and the
standard 1" yoke. That could cover alot of possibilities. Rest assured that
whatever you decide, you'll need a yoke at some point that you don't have.
Hope this helps
DougMel(at)aol.com
working on right elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | 1st Annual Rocky Mountain Fly-in |
Sept 27-29 the First annual Rocky Mountain RVators fly-in was held in
Burlinton, Colorado (175 miles East of Denver). 33 RVs flew in, from
Oregon, Arizona, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado. The Texas folks
showed up in grand style with I had heard 14 aircraft, way to go Texas!
What made this event unique, other than the great weather, was the
hospitality of the City of Burlington. The airport was ours! Saturday the
city provided a FREE bar-b-qued steak lunch. Buses ran between motels and
the local attractions, which were many. Also we had a look at John Stewarts
RV-6A project. John thanks for all of the leg work in putting on the
Fly-in. But I really want to thank the city of Burlington, Colorado for
their genuine and friendly hospitality.
The fly-in was a fun time, lots of looking, flying, Howdying old and new
friends. The Rocky Mountain RVators will have another fly-in next year,
and I promise to post long before the event.
A special thanks to Bill Benedict of Van's for yet another great ride in
the RV-6A. Any one of you who think the RV-6A is not as good flying upside
down as the RV-6, well you have another think coming.
It was very nice to have a fly-in with friends, no FAA, no EAA, no
Loudspeakers, just flying and fun...
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
RV-6A Builder, An Editor for "The Rocky Mountain RVator"
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FLY IN OCT 5TH |
Lebanon is just east of Nashville. A very active EAA chapter 863 is based
there and should have a good turnout of enthusiast off all types. There are,
at last count, 20 to 30 RVs in process. Also a variety of other
planes/warbirds should be in attendence. I understand lunch will be provided.
It also looks like the weather will be fantastic.
Contact JOHN MCMAHON 615-452-8742 for more information -
Shelby In Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing Kits |
RV-8 Wing kits. Last weekend the Rocky Mountain RVators and the city of
Burlington, Colorado held an RV flyin. Bill Benedict (Van's GM) spoke at
the evening meal. Amonst other comments, he talked about the delay in
RV-8 wings.
The reason for the delay is Van purchased for Phlogiston a new automatic
mill which they have not be able to get running. So, they are going to the
old tried and true methods of dilling RV-8 wing spars (used for RV-4 an
RV-6's). Bill said the first spars will be out in 2 to 3 weeks. He has
everything else made for 100 wing kits.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
Get the longeron yoke for sure. I have the short one, the longeron one
and the 3 inch one and use all three often.
>----------
>From: Gary Tree[SMTP:renschler.com!gtree(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 1996 12:38 PM
>To: RVLIST
>Subject: RV-List: Avery Squeezer
>
>I have a question for those who have used the Avery rivet squeezer. I
>have purchased one with a 3" yoke but it is back ordered. Would I be
>better off to get it with the longeron yoke? If I do, will I still need
>the 3" yoke? I'm just getting started on the empenage and don't expect
>to get into the wings until next year. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Gary Tree
>gtree(at)renschler.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: pop rivet id? |
<< How can I identify the ad-41-xx pop rivet used in the leading edges of
the rudder and elevator? I am suddenly worried that I used the wrong ones
in my rudder. In general, is there a source of specs on pop rivets?
>>
The ad-41 rivets are very similar to the cs-4-4's except they are
round-headed instead of flush. I'm not sure where you'd find specs, I just
kept them all seperated until I knew which was which by sight.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | 1st Annual Rocky Mountain Fly-in |
Sept 27-29 the First annual Rocky Mountain RVators fly-in was held in
Burlinton, Colorado (175 miles East of Denver). 33 RVs flew in, from
Oregon, Arizona, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado. The Texas folks
showed up in grand style with I had heard 14 aircraft, way to go Texas!
What made this event unique, other than the great weather, was the
hospitality of the City of Burlington. The airport was ours! Saturday the
city provided a FREE bar-b-qued steak lunch. Buses ran between motels and
the local attractions, which were many. Also we had a look at John Stewarts
RV-6A project. John thanks for all of the leg work in putting on the
Fly-in. But I really want to thank the city of Burlington, Colorado for
their genuine and friendly hospitality.
The fly-in was a fun time, lots of looking, flying, Howdying old and new
friends. The Rocky Mountain RVators will have another fly-in next year,
and I promise to post long before the event.
A special thanks to Bill Benedict of Van's for yet another great ride in
the RV-6A. Any one of you who think the RV-6A is not as good flying upside
down as the RV-6, well you have another think coming.
It was very nice to have a fly-in with friends, no FAA, no EAA, no
Loudspeakers, just flying and fun...
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | 1st Annual Rocky Mountain Fly-in |
Sept 27-29 the First annual Rocky Mountain RVators fly-in was held in
Burlinton, Colorado (175 miles East of Denver). 33 RVs flew in, from
Oregon, Arizona, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado. The Texas folks
showed up in grand style with I had heard 14 aircraft, way to go Texas!
What made this event unique, other than the great weather, was the
hospitality of the City of Burlington. The airport was ours! Saturday the
city provided a FREE bar-b-qued steak lunch. Buses ran between motels and
the local attractions, which were many. Also we had a look at John Stewarts
RV-6A project. John thanks for all of the leg work in putting on the
Fly-in. But I really want to thank the city of Burlington, Colorado for
their genuine and friendly hospitality.
The fly-in was a fun time, lots of looking, flying, Howdying old and new
friends. The Rocky Mountain RVators will have another fly-in next year,
and I promise to post long before the event.
A special thanks to Bill Benedict of Van's for yet another great ride in
the RV-6A. Any one of you who think the RV-6A is not as good flying upside
down as the RV-6, well you have another think coming.
It was very nice to have a fly-in with friends, no FAA, no EAA, no
Loudspeakers, just flying and fun...
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I am considering selling my RV4 if anyone is interested.
A picture of my RV-4 is in the Feb 96 RVator, bottom left of page 4.
RV4, N95HD, 35 Hr TTSN. 0-320-E2D, 150HP, 945 Hr TTSNew
Engine has 35Hr on new slick mags, new fuel pump, new light weight starter
and alternator, SS exhaust, metal float and 1 piece Ventrui in carb.
Setup with air filter.
Fixed pitch Sensensich metal prop 70CM7S16-0 (78), Certified version for
RV's).
Airframe has Factory Spar. All metal parts cleaned, etched, alodined, and
epoxy primer on inside. Interior is light gray Imron with D.J.
Lauritsen seats with Astro foam. Exterior is VeriPrime primer
with Imron paint. Colors are White, dark Blue, Silver (Dallas Cowboys
colors).
Manual flaps and trim control.
Duck Works Landing and Taxi Lights.
Full nav lights and Whelen Strobes (on wing tips).
Interior dimmer and post lights.
Concorde sealed battery.
Panel is all new instruments, basic VFR, has Elect TC, ROC, G-Meter, etc.
but does not have DG or AH.
EI 4 cyl EGT and CHG + OAT. EI Volt/Amp meter. Hobbs meter.
Avionics were all new: Nacro Comm 810-A (760 channel comm).
Narco AT-150 transponder + AmeriKing enconder
PS intercom
ACK ELT (uses Duracell batteries)
Has room for one more 2inch high radio in the stack
Price is 42,000 if you want to haggle, otherwise $40,000 firm.
Plane is located close to Austin Tx.
Aircraft was inspected by Tony Bingles several times during construction
so you can check with him about the plane.
I reserve the right to not sell the airplane.
Contact Herman Dierks, home 512-255-0265 dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
Hey
What list am I on??? Ime Getting too much RV related E Mail.
Please take me off the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
,
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
As a subscriber to the RV-List (not the kitfox or europa lists), I didn't
receive the original. Anyone on those who lists who wants to continue
corresponding, please also include the RV-list or my address in the To:
line. Thanks... now, on to what I actually have to say:
> >Just read your nice article in the October Comanche Flyer and I agree
> >with most of what you wrote. It seem less than economical to spend
> >two thousand dollars on a GPS when most of the same info can be obtained
> >on a much less expensive version. . . . . .
>
> The operative words here are "most of the same" to which I would
> add "most of the time."
>
> >the 2000 have adequate reception when being used "inside" the environs
> >of a Comanche, or whatever? It's been my experience that if a GPS
> >does not have an externally mounted antenna, acquisition of
> >the required number of satellites is difficult. I also understand
> >that an antenna kit is not available for the 2000, only the 4000,
> >and at a price of $139.99.
I have a Magellan GPS3000... I believe the 2000 is a cut-down version of
this, and can't have the external data, power, and antenna added. It also
has a few less internal features. My guess is that the GPS "engine" inside
all these models is the same.
I've used my 3000 in a plane (C172) on one trip (about 8 hours total),
running on battery and using the internal antenna. It was hopeless in the
rear seat, although if I put it in the luggage compartment it worked OK.
When I got to fly, I had it up front, held by my front-seat passenger.
Mostly it worked OK when held near the yoke, but if held up near the top of
the dash, it was fine all the time.
I've also used it in my car (gotta have your toys, y'know), mounted in a
bracket on top of the dash. It works fine there too.
> In no way am I suggesting that inexpensive hand-helds are a
> REPLACEMENT for the more expensive panel mounts or hand helds
> with external antennas.
I'm partly disagree. I think/hope that a *well-chosen* inexpensive handheld
(ie one which allows external antenna, power, and data connections such as
the GPS3000) can be a suitable replacement for a panel mount. I've lost the
URL for now, but there was a recent posting to the glass-panel mailing list
which gave details of how to build your own GPS antenna (several different
ways, in fact). Some time, I'll give that a try. Same site had PC moving map
software.
> The thrust of the article was to suggest
> that pilots NOT PUT OFF buying a GPS receiver because they
> cannot currently afford the one they want. I'll further suggest that
> a $200 hand-held can put the miracle of GPS navigation in IMMEDIATE
> reach of everyone while they save up the bucks for their
> "dream" receiver.
I'd suggest people buy the $250 model... then they may never need to buy the
"dream" receiver. Or a heap of alkaline batteries.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)cdac.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer |
With the longeron yoke and the 3" you will be able to set most squeezable
rivets. I thought the longeron yoke was needed when you got to the
fuselage (longerons). I ordered the longeron yoke while building the wings.
I wish I had ordered the longeron yoke with my first order to Avery and
used it on the empenage.
The longeron yoke would now be my first purchase and the 3" would be
second. The 3" yoke would be used in place off the longeron yoke to reach
rivets 3" in from an edge.
Also, nice to have is the yoke that has no hole in the top and can be used
to squeeze the rivets that are close to a second surface such as at the
trailing edge of the control surfaces.
>I have a question for those who have used the Avery rivet squeezer. I
>have purchased one with a 3" yoke but it is back ordered. Would I be
>better off to get it with the longeron yoke? If I do, will I still need
>the 3" yoke? I'm just getting started on the empenage and don't expect
>to get into the wings until next year. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Gary Tree
>gtree(at)renschler.com
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A starting fuse
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer |
>
> I have a question for those who have used the Avery rivet squeezer. I
> have purchased one with a 3" yoke but it is back ordered. Would I be
> better off to get it with the longeron yoke? If I do, will I still need
> the 3" yoke? I'm just getting started on the empenage and don't expect
> to get into the wings until next year. Any advice would be appreciated.
Is this your only yoke, or the second one? My opinion (I'm sure there
are others!) is that your primary yoke should be a 1 1/2" or 2", the
reason being that there are more times that you need to get it into
TIGHT places than there are when you just have to use a squeezer and
have to get it around something big. The longeron and deeper throat
yokes are nice but you can almost always buck those rivets, it's the
little bitty places that you are going to have the most trouble with.
For a SECOND yoke -- I'd go with either the longeron yoke or the "thin
nose", it's a toss-up which one. I think a 3" or 4" yoke would be my
fourth choice. It doesn't do anything you can't do nearly as easily
with a gun and bucking bar.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Arrival (Chatter) |
Shipping? Crating? Freight charges? I'm scheduled to pick up my
finish kit next week -- I'm just going to drive out there on my lunch
hour and pile it all in the back of my pickup truck.... :-)
Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall@edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
Dear Group,
I am contemplating moving to the West Coast. I have always dreamed of having
a small place on or near an airport. 365 days/year VFR 68 deg. Avg temp,
blue skys little puffys, etc., etc.( Hell, all you guys and gals have the
same dream, right?). I have been giving much thought to the San Diego and to
Napa/Sonoma areas. In about a month I will be flying out to CA in my RV-4 or
someone else's 747(don't know which yet). If anyone wants to share their
opinions and experiences with me, I would be thrilled. Reply privately to
Louis Willig, larywil(at)op.net. I'm looking forward to your responses. Thanks.
Louis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer |
I have an Avery squeezer bought with the small yoke, and for $60.00 each I
had a local tool and die maker make me 1 each of a 3" and longeron yokes.
With the squeezer given to him and the photo's out of Avery catalog, you to
could do this too. Although my fellow said he won't do it again, not
profitable enough!!!!! Ask around, and you're looking for some H-13 tool
steel, band saw cut, belt sanded or bench groung into shape, 3 semi-precision
holes installed and then heat treated (along with some other real paying
customer's stuff, to keep costs down) to a 48 to 52rc and finally fitted
after heat treat. You will find this makes a very tough yoke.
I found the 3" yoke works fantastic, barley deflects, flattens rivets well.
But.... I also found that the longeron yoke had more deflection and didn't
work out so well and feel it's not really worth it. You have to be careful
and squeeze perfectly perpendictular.
I don't know if the "factory" ( the same as the pnuematic) yokes are
simliiar, I believe they are out of 4130 steel and not quite as tough.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Bumps H2AD? |
Thanks for the message. sorry but my computer had been down. And to top it
all off my fuselage has a boo-boo that I gotta call Van's
now......................nuts!!!!
Frankly this has me quite pre occupied for the moment, but in the future when
I get my act (fuselage straightened out) together and need to start dealing
with the H2AD specifics I'd like to further corespond with you. Thanks
again!!!!! David McManmon.
BTW, here's some one whom is looking for you, I hope this works for you 2
folks to connect, I've passes similar information to him also. Here goes:
Date: 96-09-30 01:40:04 EDT
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz (Frank van der Hulst)
Hi,
I'm not sure who I'm talking to here, given the account name and From: line.
{From: aol.com!McManD(at)matronics.com (by way of James & Mary Mc Phee
)}
However, I've been trying to contact James McPhee for some time now.
If you're not James, could you please get him to email me (or phone 06
327-6976 Home, 06 32-5921ext560 Work) ASAP?
Thanks,
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
emin08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA01121 for
janus.pec.co.nz (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA04112 for ;
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Bumps H2AD? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
I live in Illinois and have been told by numerous homebuilt owners when they
went to get an N-number, they were fined for not paying taxes each year on
their homebuilt while it was under construction. I guess everytime you
order a kit from Vans or an engine, Illinois expects to receive taxes, and
they will get those taxes when you go to register and fine you interest and
penalties also. They require all receipts and proof of taxes paid during
registration. Well, this could amount to over $4000 worth of taxes for a
well built RV.
Question: Has anyone found a way to get around this. Some pilots talked
about registering the plane in states where there was no taxes and then
transferring it to Illinois. I tried this with my sailboat, but the state I
registered it to required documentation that taxes were paid in Illinois
else they were due to that state.
Does anybody have any good ideas. The thought of paying that much in tax
makes me sick to my stomach. Especially when you can buy a used airplane and
not pay any tax.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Pump and Alternator Questions |
To those of you who have installed vacuum systems in your RVs, which pump is
more preferable to you in terms of reliability, the Airborne 211CC at $429
(no core) or the Sigmatek 1U-128-006 at $349 (no core)? They appear to be
roughly the same size and weight. Is the addition of a cooling shroud at $44
significantly beneficial?
And while we're not on the subject, does the B&C L60 Alternator come with the
drive belt?
Thanks in advance!
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I live in Illinois and have been told by numerous homebuilt owners when they
> went to get an N-number, they were fined for not paying taxes each year on
> their homebuilt while it was under construction. I guess everytime you
> order a kit from Vans or an engine, Illinois expects to receive taxes, and
> they will get those taxes when you go to register and fine you interest and
> penalties also. They require all receipts and proof of taxes paid during
> registration. Well, this could amount to over $4000 worth of taxes for a
> well built RV.
>
> Question: Has anyone found a way to get around this. Some pilots talked
> about registering the plane in states where there was no taxes and then
> transferring it to Illinois. I tried this with my sailboat, but the state I
> registered it to required documentation that taxes were paid in Illinois
> else they were due to that state.
>
> Does anybody have any good ideas. The thought of paying that much in tax
> makes me sick to my stomach. Especially when you can buy a used airplane and
> not pay any tax.
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
In California, this is how it works. You purchase a kit in another
state, you must pay the franchise tax board the sales tax as applicable
to the county where you live (you must provide a copy of the bill of
sale at this time). Then, there is no taxes due until the aircraft is
completed and flown at least once, and then tied down at an airport. At
that point you are subject to annual use/personal property taxes. This
is based on your costs of materials (keep ALL receipts), PLUS the total
hours of construction times a "reasonable" hourly labor rate (usually
figured a $10/hr) times the county rate.
An example would be if you had $50,000 invested plus 2,000 hours of
labor, it would work out to $50,000 + 20,000 = $70,000 basis. If you
live in Santa Clara County, multiply the $70,000 times 1.25 percent for
an annual tax of $875.00 year.
If this seems outragious, consider what happens when the tax man siezes
your wages/property/AIRPLANE/TOOLS, etc., while they figure out exactly
what you owe!!! Of course, they will always make the fines and
penalties far exceed what you would have paid in the first place.
If in doubt, talk to a tax attorney or accountant.
Brian McShurley
cleaning garage, awaiting kit, N514BM Reserved
Sorry not a RV, only an all metal Stewart 51 Mustang :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Pump and Alternator Questions |
Gary ,
I always used airborn vacuum pumps , I'm not sure if the shroud is needed
just a blast tube with fresh air works. B&C's alternator does come with the
belt but I have had to get a nother one because the one B&C give you is
sometime too long ,the pully will scrap the cowling in flight. How ever the
alternator is first class as is the rest of they products.......George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
> Brian McShurley
> cleaning garage, awaiting kit, N514BM Reserved
> Sorry not a RV, only an all metal Stewart 51 Mustang :)
Brian--
Sounds like you're gonna have lots of tax to pay on that S-51, huh? :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
Scott, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on the list, here. But it
seems to me that the State of Illinois is ill-equipped to determine just when
you have a hobby and just when you have an airplane. That's a federal matter.
Up until the FAA says you've got an airplane, I would argue that you have a
hobby-a pile of clecos and rivets and sheet stock that cannot fly without that
FAA nod.
I've heard of folks registering N-numbers early, and then having to pay taxes
on the registered airplane, plus insure their work-in-progress, too.
If the State of Illinois wants to be a butt about this, then I'd let them
challenge everything-I wouldn't offer up any receipts for tools, for seat
covers, for carpet kits. If pressed, I'd maybe show 'em how much I paid Van
for the materials kits and if they want to think that's what it cost to build
the airplane, fine.
I'd call EAA and AOPA on this one and ask for their recommendation. Ask them
to recommend a good lawyer who has done this kind of work before. Dimestore
lawyering like this letter is worth exactly what you pay for it, but it seems
to me that you shouldn't have to register your kit as an airplane until the
FAA says it is one. When does it become a plane, in the eyes of Illinois? When
you pound that first rivet? When you paint it? When you order the Wing Kit? To
my way of thinking, you could get hit by a bus this evening and your kit may
*never* fly. All you have today is a thousand pound easy chair with a radio. I
don't see how you can owe taxes on that.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Scott Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 1996 10:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes
I live in Illinois and have been told by numerous homebuilt owners when they
went to get an N-number, they were fined for not paying taxes each year on
their homebuilt while it was under construction. I guess everytime you
order a kit from Vans or an engine, Illinois expects to receive taxes, and
they will get those taxes when you go to register and fine you interest and
penalties also. They require all receipts and proof of taxes paid during
registration. Well, this could amount to over $4000 worth of taxes for a
well built RV.
Question: Has anyone found a way to get around this. Some pilots talked
about registering the plane in states where there was no taxes and then
transferring it to Illinois. I tried this with my sailboat, but the state I
registered it to required documentation that taxes were paid in Illinois
else they were due to that state.
Does anybody have any good ideas. The thought of paying that much in tax
makes me sick to my stomach. Especially when you can buy a used airplane and
not pay any tax.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6A Fuel Tank Attach |
| From: | bartwodrive2(at)juno.com (leslie d thompson) |
Dear RV List Interest Group
After building a right wing tank and seeing where it attaches to the spar
web doubler flange and onto the w-623, it appears to me that this is not
so strong. Have you heard of this narrow flange failing (on the spar web
doubler ) or cracks developing off this narrow flange or the w-623.
Thanks for any info on this.
Les Thompson
251 Bar Two Drive
Douglas, Wyoming 82633
E-Mail bartwodrive2(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Bumps H2AD? |
>
>Frankly this has me quite pre occupied for the moment, but in the future when
>I get my act (fuselage straightened out) together and need to start dealing
>with the H2AD specifics I'd like to further corespond with you. Thanks
>again!!!!! David McManmon.
>
>Frank.
Howdy,
THis last weekend I talked to Martin Stutter, RV-6er in Fort Worth. A
couple of friends have H2AD engines. One has the cowl fitted, he did put
bumps on his cowl now he regrets it, he thinks he didn't have to put on the
bumps, the cowl would fit without them. So, the other fellow is using his
cowl as is, sans pump bumps. Tom Green assured me though when you order
the finish kit, specify that you have the H2AD and Van's will send an
engine mount for the H engine. What a company!!!
Doug
ps I bought my H2AD from Bobbies Plane and Parts, 320 FM 1885 E, Weatherford,
TX 76088 817.682.4220 Cost $3500 for an engine 2000+ hours never
overhauled. $2800 H2AD 4000 + hours overhauled once. Includes
mag,harness,carb, and ring gear. In May he approx 20 engines H2ADs, plus a
couple of E2Ds, and maybe 80 other engines Continental and Lycomings (no
Lyc O-360's then).
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
RV-6A Builder, An Editor for "The Rocky Mountain RVator"
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
On a recent vacation to Alaska, I noticed most of the float/light planes had
alternating flashing landing lights (one on each wing). This is the first
time I had seen these in operation in it amazed me how quick you picked these
up. Just thought the group would like to know.
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on problem with seat ribs |
Scott,
The top and bottom measurements to F604 are not the same. If you modify your
seat ribs the distance between you main spar and rear spar clevis will be
wrong. Look at all the measurements for the front of the fuselage again (and
again).
DANGER WILL ROBINSON
Leo Davies
>I am building an RV6A and have the fuselage with all bulkheads in the jig.
>The problem is the front seat rib web faces (616,617,618) does not lie flush
>against the 604 bulkhead ( it is the wrong angle and slants away from the
>604 1/8 of an inch, note: the rear seat rib web is sitting on the 605
>bulkhead where it is suppose to go ). We have double checked all alignments
>and dimensions on the bulkheads. Has anybody had problems with these seat
>ribs ? I seem to remember reading that there was some error in the fuselage
>area that was never fixed. I can rebend the front seat ribs so that they
>will angle correctly to be flush against the 604, but have not seen this
>much error in the parts before anywhere else. This is a new kit having been
>received 5 months ago. Also, the 604 has a fake wood spar in it that exactly
>mirrors the real one ( it is laminated marine plywood, planed to within 5
>thousands accuracy), so the 604 is straight and has been triple checked
>where it is suppose to be.
>
>Totally concerned what to do next. Any suggestions ?
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | answer to why I am selling my RV4 |
> Herman - I'm sure that the entire list would like to know what's behind
> your decision to (maybe) sell your RV-4. You seem very committed to the
> project and the testing, so it comes as a surpise...
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> S/N 24414
> "Finishing Empennage"
>
I guess I should have said this on the first message.
There are several reasons to sell it.
Probably the biggest reason is I found out about an aerobatic
monoplane that is for sale that I really would like.
My main interest is in aerobatics and I have been flying a Pitts
for acro, but you know, you always want more.
If I sell the RV4, I could buy the monoplane (its not a finished
plane). The monoplane is only a single seat plane however.
The other reasons are that the RV4 is not very practical for me now.
I now have 3 kids (8, 10, 15) and I can't do much with the two
place plane. For example, I wanted to take it to Oshkosh and my
two sons wanted to go so we had to take the C170 and left the
RV setting at home. My boys will not like me selling it as
they like to go up and do a few loops and rolls in it.
It is nice having a fast airplane for a change but I find I
can't use it very much.
To be honest, I really don't have a good answer to what I want to
do. I would really like a GOOD two place aerobatic plane that
I could move up to Unlimitted acro at some point (doing Advanced now).
The two place would let me take my kids (one at a time) up for
some serious aerobatics. They really want to learn.
The problem is that most two place acro planes are either too
expensive for me or don't perform as well as a single place.
I would like to consolidate somehow to minimize the number of
planes. A good two place acro plane would replace the Pitts
and RV4 and I would have one less plane to feed and care for.
My wanting to sell the RV has nothing to do with the RV4.
It is a very easy to fly plane (both slow and fast), and has
great visibility. I get lots of good comments on how good the
plane looks. It also does a good job of basic aerobatics.
I have two local pilots who want to buy it but don't have the
$$ at this point.
Herman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Flashing Lights |
>On a recent vacation to Alaska, I noticed most of the float/light planes had
>alternating flashing landing lights (one on each wing). This is the first
>time I had seen these in operation in it amazed me how quick you picked these
>up. Just thought the group would like to know.
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
>
>
All of our traffic reporters use these on their 172's here in Seattle. It
is amazing how visible they are with those flashing landing lights.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana Belt".
It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly close
to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community. Prices are
very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>
>Dear Group,
>I am contemplating moving to the West Coast. I have always dreamed of having
>a small place on or near an airport. 365 days/year VFR 68 deg. Avg temp,
>blue skys little puffys, etc., etc.( Hell, all you guys and gals have the
>same dream, right?). I have been giving much thought to the San Diego and to
>Napa/Sonoma areas. In about a month I will be flying out to CA in my RV-4 or
>someone else's 747(don't know which yet). If anyone wants to share their
>opinions and experiences with me, I would be thrilled. Reply privately to
>Louis Willig, larywil(at)op.net. I'm looking forward to your responses. Thanks.
>
>Louis
>
>
You sure haven't described California; what you want to do is look at
western Oregon or Washington. It may not be VFR 365 days a year but the air
is CLEAN and the skies are blue all the time (or was that the name of a TV
show??). In any case, not to be derogatory to California residents, it is
better flying when you can see over 40 miles.
Of course, you could live in California for a few years, get one of those
$450,000 houses and then sell it and move to Washington like all those
Californians seem to be doing. :>)
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Scott, since noone else mentioned it. There was a long discussion
about this some months ago. Search the archive (www.matronics.com).
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on problem with seat ribs |
Being new at this internet stuff, I'm not to sure why my last letter didn't
go, tossing in my 2 cents in on this issue. My RV6 seat ribs fit flush and
well, less than 3 months ago. And so does my building partner's (RV6), less
than 2 weeks ago. I'm far from an expert, and have my share of messed up
parts, I tried to send the below on 9/28, before I found my latest bungle on
my fuselage. Any ways as far as I can see my reply never made it thru the
web. I believe it describes what Leo davis is stating also:
"The top and bottom measurements to F604 are not the same. If you modify your
seat ribs the distance between you main spar and rear spar clevis will be
wrong. Look at all the measurements for the front of the fuselage again (and
again)."
Subj: Re: RV-List: Need advice on problem with seat ribs
Date: 96-09-28 16:36:52 EDT
From: McManD
HMMM... Maybe? Check out the angle you are supposed to have on the 604
bulkhead. It is not perpendictular to longerons? I believe the video misses
or ?, you check it out in this area.
Look at drwg # 23 the jig. notice that on the top view looking down you see
your F604 at the intersection to F604 to longeron is 30 11/16" from fire wall
front datum point (including flange). Then notice on the side view below
that. The top measurement is given as 30 1/4" from same datum point.
Check out same relationship on drwg # 31, in lower RH corner, section A-A' .
Note how the 29 1/2" (now given minus the 3/4" firewall turned forward
facing flange) is your bottom measurement (AKA at the top of your jig
currently). Then notice up at the top of same section, a distance given at
29 15/16" (again minus 3/4" from fire wall flange). (ps: watch out for
all those measurements taken from flanges and/or webs, know exactly which the
measuerment is from. Thats where my latest mistake dwells from!!)
Thus check to see if your F604 is tipped from top to bottom. I know of one
person whom did miss this, build F604 straight up and down, and bent out the
1/8" gap you describe. He now had wrong angle to wing chord line?. He had
to adjust the Horizontal stab angle to remedy. I was told long ago from
fellow RV builders to be cautious, there's an old rule that if you change one
thing now, you'll have to change 50 more things later to fix it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
> consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
> and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
> rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
> it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana Belt".
> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
> over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
> private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
> beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
> views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
> fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
> there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
> ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly close
> to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community. Prices are
> very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
> on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
> me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
> sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
> days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
Sounds great Jim. What are the job opportunities for a Computer
instructor in that area :)
Rick in Minneapolis Socoldhere
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
Don McNamara wrote:
>
> > Brian McShurley
> > cleaning garage, awaiting kit, N514BM Reserved
> > Sorry not a RV, only an all metal Stewart 51 Mustang :)
>
> Brian--
>
> Sounds like you're gonna have lots of tax to pay on that S-51, huh? :)
True....too true...
About $4,200 to be exact.
I must tell all now that I have been lurking for some time gathering
notes and ideas. R.A.H. just dosen't have a clue most of the time, yet
the RV List is usually always packed with great info or advice.
I hope that you all will be willing to help me out when I get into a jam
and have run out of ideas. Thanks in advance. By the way, isn't a
metal airplane still a metal airplane??
As I don my fireproof suit to ward off the flame throwers...... :)
Check six
Brian McShurley, S-51D, N514BM
Cleaning Garage, Awaiting Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
Let's not forget the Oregon central coast. There are spectacular ocean
views and it only frosted here in North Bend 2 time last winter. Prices are
very reasonable. We also have a distinct advantage in that we don't hae a
sales tax like they do in Washington and there is no personal property tax.
By RV you are only 25 min from Eugene and about an hour from Portland and Van's.
Ray Murphy, Jr.
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6 tail feathers
>Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
>consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
>and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
>rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
>it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana Belt".
> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
>over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
>private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
>beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
>views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
>fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
>there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
>ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly close
>to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community. Prices are
>very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
>on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
>me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
>sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
>days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing question |
I'm no fibreglass guru but the manufacturer's fact sheet on my epoxy says
that you can apply it over polyester but you can't apply polyester over it.
Reason not stated,
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>>> In the area of the bond, I sanded the surface with 60 or 80 grit sandpaper
>>> and then cleaned with acetone. I used epoxy resin for this application as
>>> well as when I made my empenage fairing. Polyester (or vinyl ester, for
>>> that matter) resin sets up pretty quickly and the warmer it is, the faster
>>> it sets up.
>>
>>> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>>
>>Most of the info Bob gave is right on but I would recommend *not* using
>>epoxy over the Polyester resin that is used on the cowlings as it will
>>not bond well to Polyester this has been proved several times on the
>>RVs in my area that have tried it, I have seen the bond between epoxy
>>and Polyester come apart.
>>--
>>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>Jerry,
> I wonder if the problem of de-lamination could be attributted to poor
>surface prep, not removing gelcoat or contaminating the surface after it was
>prepped? I have run across two RV builders who were ready to bond on the
>scoop and had not sanded the gelcoat off. Is it possible that the bonding
>surface was sanded too smooth for an optimum bond?
> I'll pose this question to r.a.h. and see if there are any fiberglass
>gurus who can answer this question. Of course, on this forum, it's
>sometimes hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
> Of course, bonding with polyester to polyester would be fine as they are
>identical chemicals. I don't like the short working times involved when
>doing larger lay-ups. I use polyester on ocassion and mix it hot when it's
>a small lay-up and I'm in a hurry. In your opinion, would vinyl ester resin
>be almost as good as poly? If so, you could gain a little in working time
>and don't have to worry about whether to use bonding or finish polyester
>resin. The vinyl ester sets up great and if mixed hot in warm weather can
>be ready to sand pretty quickly but of course, working time is way down.
>Also, vinyl ester resin doesn't have a very long shelf life, especially
>after it's promoted.
> The down side to epoxy resin is that it tends to run on verticle surfaces,
>which surprised me the first time I used it. I guess that some cabosil
>blended in tends to eleminate this problem. Note: Builders. If you use
>epoxy, protect the surfaces "down hill" from your lay up area as gravity is
>not epoxy's friend. Also, since epoxy should be used when bonding to plexy,
>builder's always have extra around and it makes sense to me to use it on
>other areas of the airplane instead of letting it go to waste.
> I prefer to work with the vinyl ester because of the longer working time
>when compared to poly. Because epoxy has even more working time, I
>generally recommend it to novices to ease the construction process. I don't
>like doing fiberglass work, no matter what the system and like to get
>through it as fast and effeciently as possible.
> Of all the RV's I've seen, and I've been hanging around them for several
>years at OSH, S&F, Boone, North Plains, etc., I can only remember a few that
>had cracking around the cowl scoop.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 (no cracks yet in 1 1/2 years and 320 hours)
>BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuel Tank Attach |
leslie d thompson wrote:
>
> Dear RV List Interest Group
>
> After building a right wing tank and seeing where it attaches to the spar
> web doubler flange and onto the w-623, it appears to me that this is not
> so strong. Have you heard of this narrow flange failing (on the spar web
> doubler ) or cracks developing off this narrow flange or the w-623.
>
> Thanks for any info on this.
>
> Les Thompson
> 251 Bar Two Drive
> Douglas, Wyoming 82633
>
> E-Mail bartwodrive2(at)juno.com
Don't try to re-engineer something that's not broken. The fuel tank
connection to the spar is probable the last thing you'll ever have to
worry about failing. I'd be more concern that what you are doing is
according to the plans and with good construction practices. If you do
this I'll see you smiling at an airshow in the near future.
Frank Smidler,
BSME w/19 years in alum. sheet metal structural construction.
Wings done, working on finish kit (RV-6).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low fuel warning lights |
I want to install the Acft Spruce low fuel warning light switch. I read the
discussion regarding machining down the 1\2" flange to be able to thread the
switch in but I wondered if anyone has experience as to where to place them
and how much fuel remains at that point. Thanks, Larry Scheer, Albany, NY
#21304
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Flashing Lights |
On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, John Ammeter wrote:
> All of our traffic reporters use these on their 172's here in Seattle. I=
t
> is amazing how visible they are with those flashing landing lights.
I remember seeing a report about the company that makes kits for the
flashing lights a few years ago. Maybe it was at the flying expo at the
Tacoma Dome. The company claimed that the lights don't go completely off
when they dim, thus the flashing doesn't cause them to burn out quickly.
They're on the wish list for my -6A.
--
Fred New, Systems Administrator RV-6A, dreaming & planning
IC Systems | Mustam=E4e tee 12 | EE0006 Tallinn | Eston=
ia
Internet--fred(at)ics.ee voice--(372) 656-5477 fax--(372) 656-5476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
> consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
> and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
> rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
> it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana Belt".
> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
> over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
> private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
> beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
> views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
> fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
> there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
> ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly close
> to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community. Prices are
> very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
> on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
> me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
> sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
> days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
If I lived in a place like that, I wouldn't tell anybody about it.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Hey Guys, while we're at cpmparing localities, New England is nice
too....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Let's not forget the Oregon central coast. There are spectacular ocean
>views and it only frosted here in North Bend 2 time last winter. Prices
are
>very reasonable. We also have a distinct advantage in that we don't hae
a
>sales tax like they do in Washington and there is no personal property
>tax.By RV you are only 25 min from Eugene and about an hour from
Portland
>and Van's.
>
>Ray Murphy, Jr.
>murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
>RV6 tail feathers
>
>
>
>>Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live
>should
>>consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic
>Peninsula
>>and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes
>and
>>rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which
>is why
>>it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the
>"Banana Belt".
>> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be
>cloudy all
>>over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are
>several
>>private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The
>scenic
>>beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and
>ocean
>>views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like
>skiing,
>>fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to
>retire
>>there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right
>on the
>>ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is
>fairly close
>>to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community.
>Prices are
>>very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K
>depending
>>on location and views. If you want more information about the area,
>E-Mail
>>me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you
>all
>>sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and
>eight
>>days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>>
>>Jim Cone
>>jamescone(at)aol.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuel Tank Attach |
Les,
Don't worry the RV6 wins are just fine I do not know of any problems in that
area , just build per plans and you will do good....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FLY IN OCT 5TH |
aol.com!Shelby1138(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Lebanon is just east of Nashville. A very active EAA chapter 863 is based
> there and should have a good turnout of enthusiast off all types. There are,
> at last count, 20 to 30 RVs in process. Also a variety of other
> planes/warbirds should be in attendence. I understand lunch will be provided.
> It also looks like the weather will be fantastic.
>
> Contact JOHN MCMAHON 615-452-8742 for more information -
>
> Shelby In Nashville.
THANKS SHELBY
JOHN MCMAHON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Lebanon,Tn Fly-in (M 54) |
Anybody planning on going to the EAA Chapter 863 fly-in tomorrow (5 Oct.). I
know they have some nice RV's in the Nashville area but beyond that I've got
no details other than it happening...
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying 2+ years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Electric Aileron trim installation - RV4 |
I am in the process of installing electric aileron trim on an RV4.
Whether one actually needs aileron trim on an RV4 is not the issue I want to
debate. I would like to know the path others have taken in routing the
electrical wire from the aileron through the wing. Where did you exit the
aileron? Where did you enter the spar or wing? What type of harness equipment
did you use to prevent wire breakage caused from aileron movement? The plans
really do not provide any guidance.
RV4Brown(at)AOL.com
Tom Brown - Monroe, NY
RV4 - constructing wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Dimples and engines |
I am looking for info in two areas:
1) Can anyone suggest a method of filling in the slight smiles that
occour. Seams most of my surfaces have at least one noticible smile.
I would like to do this in preperation for priming and painting.
2) Has anyone heard any updates from the folks at Belted Air Power. I am
hoping there engine will be viable as an alternative.
Thanks to all..
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph L. Campbell" <CAMPBELL(at)ACC.FAU.EDU> |
Can someone direct me to specifications, including interior dimensions, of
the new RV-8? Thanks...
...Joe
campbell(at)acc.fau.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flashing Lights |
>I remember seeing a report about the company that makes kits for the
>flashing lights a few years ago. Maybe it was at the flying expo at the
>Tacoma Dome. The company claimed that the lights don't go completely off
>when they dim, thus the flashing doesn't cause them to burn out quickly.
>They're on the wish list for my -6A.
>Fred New, Systems Administrator RV-6A, dreaming & planning
Fred,
The company you may be thinking about is Pulse Light.
Bob Nuckolls made a flasher unit for me that works very well and is
considerably cheaper than the Pulse Light. My RV-6 is set up with two
switches, one landing and one taxi. For pulsing lights, I have it wired so
that when the pulse switch is thrown along with the right landing light,
they blink. This installation only required the drilling of one hole in my
finished panel for the "pulse" switch.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
GPS receivers provide 3 basic functions to aviators. The first is incredibly
good point to point navigation. The second is a terrific database (what's
the frequency and pattern altitude of airport X). The third is the
integration of the database with the navigation function (ex. the ability to
use existing waypoints in flight plans, nearest airport search, etc.)
The $199 GPS 2000 or 3000 does the navigation part reasonably well but the
only waypoints you can use are those you key in yourself. You cannot pull up
the 10 nearest airports. You cannot set a flight plan without keying in the
Lat Lon of every waypoint, you cannot enter a city name and find the
airport(s), you cannot look up the pattern altitude or frequencies, etc.
IMHO, a pilot is better off spending $500 to buy the low end aviation
receiver. With that they get a GPS receiver with a terrific database and an
external antenna with a built in amplifier.
Then, forget about that $2,000 panel mount receiver. You should only buy one
if you intend IFR flying, and even then they will all require major buck
upgrades when precision approaches become available. The handhelds are
cheaper, more powerful , and easier to use.
In our product line the low end receiver is the Skyblazer Lt. Our
competitors offer similar products. Of course, you ought to buy our's so I
can afford to buy that finish kit.
John Allen
jallen6526(at)aol.com
Magellan Corporation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimples and engines |
Rick Osgood wrote:
>
> I am looking for info in two areas:
>
> 1) Can anyone suggest a method of filling in the slight smiles that
> occour. Seams most of my surfaces have at least one noticible smile.
> I would like to do this in preperation for priming and painting.
>
> 2) Has anyone heard any updates from the folks at Belted Air Power. I am
> hoping there engine will be viable as an alternative.
>
> Thanks to all..
> Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Boy... who said this guy could spell :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Reisdorfer <73101.73(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Hello folks in the RV-list from a new builder.
I am building and RV8, working on the horiz stab at this time.
Looking forward to all the assistance from all you experienced
builders
Mark Reisdorfer RV8 #80020
Floyds Knobs, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Louis:
Consider living in Paradise, Ca. Paradise is in the foothills around 100
milies north of Sacramento. Close to Lake Tahoe and the moutains. Great
weather, great skiing and fishing. Population about 26,000, and the
elevation is 2,000 ft. We have a great little airport three miles from town.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Manual to Electric Aileron Trim |
Initially, I had decided on all manual (elev, aileron) trim for my RV.
Since, I have opted for electric elevator trim, actuated from the top of
each control stick via 4-way coolie hat.
Now, having a 4-way coolie hat sitting there with an unused function just
begs for electric aileron trim (needed?...no, cool?...yes!). I want to stay
away from cutting open my completed ailerons, or having a trim tab hanging
off one.
Has anyone used the manual spring-bias system and converted it to electric,
such as by using a servo to actuate the normally hand-operated lever?
Thanks,
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
At what rate do they flash?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: New RV Builder |
You wrote:
>
>Hello folks in the RV-list from a new builder.
>
>I am building and RV8, working on the horiz stab at this time.
>
>Looking forward to all the assistance from all you experienced
>builders
>
>Mark Reisdorfer RV8 #80020
>Floyds Knobs, IN
>
>
Welcome to the club, Mark. Recommend you lurk for a while, see if you
can get to the archives for past stuff (ton of it!), and then ask
questions when you need help. There are a bunch of really great guys
on this list.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
aol.com!JAllen6526(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> GPS receivers provide 3 basic functions to aviators. The first is incredibly
> good point to point navigation. The second is a terrific database (what's
> the frequency and pattern altitude of airport X). The third is the
> integration of the database with the navigation function (ex. the ability to
> use existing waypoints in flight plans, nearest airport search, etc.)
>
> The $199 GPS 2000 or 3000 does the navigation part reasonably well but the
> only waypoints you can use are those you key in yourself. You cannot pull up
> the 10 nearest airports. You cannot set a flight plan without keying in the
> Lat Lon of every waypoint, you cannot enter a city name and find the
> airport(s), you cannot look up the pattern altitude or frequencies, etc.
>
> IMHO, a pilot is better off spending $500 to buy the low end aviation
> receiver. With that they get a GPS receiver with a terrific database and an
> external antenna with a built in amplifier.
>
> Then, forget about that $2,000 panel mount receiver. You should only buy one
> if you intend IFR flying, and even then they will all require major buck
> upgrades when precision approaches become available. The handhelds are
> cheaper, more powerful , and easier to use.
>
> In our product line the low end receiver is the Skyblazer Lt. Our
> competitors offer similar products. Of course, you ought to buy our's so I
> can afford to buy that finish kit.
>
> John Allen
> jallen6526(at)aol.com
> Magellan Corporation
How about offering "special" discounts to us RV'rs...:)
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild corrosion |
Here's part of a message I sent to Van's, and their response. I think
other quickbuilders ought to know about it. I'm in the middle of removing
the corrosion from the wing spar today. It takes about 15 minutes per
bay to scotch brite the stuff off.
This certainly makes me question the efficacy of the Sherwin Williams
wash primer that Van's uses on the quickbuild kit. On the other hand,
the A&P told me he sees this corrosion all the time on factory built planes.
Tim
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Tom,
1. I just had an A&P IA (Brian Tobias - he's helping his father build an
RV-6) do the first inspection on my RV-6AQ. It went pretty well. I think
you at Van's need to know that there was significant corrosion on my
wings. I'd found it a month ago, but I wanted to get an A&P to confirm it
before I told you about it. There's oxidation on the forward part of the
main wing spar, outboard of the fuel tanks. It appears on the spar in
several of the compartments. There's also corrosion on some of the main
(rear) ribs, mostly at the lightening hols, some at the trailing edge of
at least one of the ribs. The corrosion shows up as a light
(grayish/whitish) blotchy formation. The A&P IA said I should scotch
brite all of it, and then coat it with a couple of coats of zinc chromate.
He doesn't think it's a serious problem. On the other hand, it's not
something you expect to find in a brand new kit! I think Van's needs to
find out what's causing this. (I'm pretty sure my air conditioned garage
didn't cause this corrosion in the 3 months I've had the kit.)
--------------Reply from Van's----------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 96 11:34:40 EDT
From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Oopses
Tim, that "corrosion" you are referencing, is one of the most
difficult problems we face with the quickbuilds... the parts are exposed
to nearly a years worth of the "elements" from the production of parts to their
shippng two
times across the ocean and final wait for sale and then of course the builder's
on
site time...
We are now experimenting with a different primer and hope to improve
these things... yes, the A&P is right, a little scotch brite and a squirt of
virtually any primer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
aol.com!JAllen6526(at)matronics.com wrote:
> In our product line the low end receiver is the Skyblazer Lt. Our
> competitors offer similar products. Of course, you ought to buy our's so I
> can afford to buy that finish kit.
Hey John,
I'll help. Just tell me more about the new handheld due out in November.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>At what rate do they flash?
I'll take a wild guess and figure this was addressed to me. I don't know.
I'll go out to the airport and count the flashes tommorrow.
By the way, it's nice if you sign your name and your E-mail address. Some
E-mail packages don't make addresses available or readable and it's nice to
know who we're talking to. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
Hello builders!
I've just started my fuselage and am trying to look forward to anticipate
when I'll need different components to finish the plane. I'm trying to time
acquistions so that I can keep making progress without having to wait for
kits etc, yet don't want to make large purchases too far in advance for
obvious reasons. I'm looking for any and all input, so thanks in advance.
When should I plan to get the engine? Is it needed at the same time of the
finishing kit? Before?? After? Does it make a difference?
What about radios and instruments?
If given a do-over, what would you have gotten earlier? Or perhaps delayed?
Dick Flunker (RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM)
RV-6A, N326DB (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley) |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Plane Registration Taxes |
Don McNamara wrote:
=20
> I must tell all now that I have been lurking for some time gathering
> notes and ideas. R.A.H. just dosen't have a clue most of the time, =
yet
> the RV List is usually always packed with great info or advice.=20
>=20
> I hope that you all will be willing to help me out when I get into a =
jam
> and have run out of ideas. Thanks in advance. By the way, isn't a
> metal airplane still a metal airplane??
>=20
> As I don my fireproof suit to ward off the flame throwers...... :)
>=20
> Check six
> Brian McShurley, S-51D, N514BM
> Cleaning Garage, Awaiting Kit
Mister Chairman, I have a unanimous consent motion at the desk - I
move that the RV-list declare Don's S-51D an honorary RV pursuant to
the condition that he give at least one RV-lister a ride when it's
done.
--
Mike Brogley
conveniently located in San Jose, CA, USA=20
Avery order arrived except for the rivet squeeeezers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>> Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
>> consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
>> and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
>> rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
>> it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana Belt".
>> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
>> over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
>> private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
>> beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
>> views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
>> fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
>> there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
>> ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly close
>> to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community. Prices are
>> very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
>> on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
>> me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
>> sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
>> days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>>
>> Jim Cone
>> jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>
>If I lived in a place like that, I wouldn't tell anybody about it.
>
>Steve
>
>
I was born and raised about 25 miles east of there and I've already
chastised Jim for even mentioning Sequim. Now, who can pronounce it
correctly?? How about Kalaloch, Puyallup, Mulilteo, Quillayute or Spokane??
We can always tell a native from a transplant but the way they mangle our
native names.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
I really hate to start the primer thread again but... I just made the
decision to switch to Sherwin Williams due to the hassle/ environmental
concerns of my previous system (PPG DP-40 after etching and alodine). I
figured from the vast numbers of builders (including Vans in the
Quickbuilds) using it that it must be great stuff. Bad choice??
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Here's part of a message I sent to Van's, and their response. I think
>other quickbuilders ought to know about it. I'm in the middle of removing
>the corrosion from the wing spar today. It takes about 15 minutes per
>bay to scotch brite the stuff off.
>
>This certainly makes me question the efficacy of the Sherwin Williams
>wash primer that Van's uses on the quickbuild kit. On the other hand,
>the A&P told me he sees this corrosion all the time on factory built planes.
>
>Tim
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Tom,
>
>1. I just had an A&P IA (Brian Tobias - he's helping his father build an
>RV-6) do the first inspection on my RV-6AQ. It went pretty well. I think
>you at Van's need to know that there was significant corrosion on my
>wings. I'd found it a month ago, but I wanted to get an A&P to confirm it
>before I told you about it. There's oxidation on the forward part of the
>main wing spar, outboard of the fuel tanks. It appears on the spar in
>several of the compartments. There's also corrosion on some of the main
>(rear) ribs, mostly at the lightening hols, some at the trailing edge of
>at least one of the ribs. The corrosion shows up as a light
>(grayish/whitish) blotchy formation. The A&P IA said I should scotch
>brite all of it, and then coat it with a couple of coats of zinc chromate.
>He doesn't think it's a serious problem. On the other hand, it's not
>something you expect to find in a brand new kit! I think Van's needs to
>find out what's causing this. (I'm pretty sure my air conditioned garage
>didn't cause this corrosion in the 3 months I've had the kit.)
>
>--------------Reply from Van's----------------------------------
>
>Date: 30 Sep 96 11:34:40 EDT
>From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM>
>To: Tim Lewis
>Subject: Re: Oopses
>
> Tim, that "corrosion" you are referencing, is one of the most
>difficult problems we face with the quickbuilds... the parts are exposed
>to nearly a years worth of the "elements" from the production of parts to
their shippng two
>times across the ocean and final wait for sale and then of course the
builder's on
>site time...
>
> We are now experimenting with a different primer and hope to improve
>these things... yes, the A&P is right, a little scotch brite and a squirt of
>virtually any primer.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuel Tank Attach |
>leslie d thompson wrote:
>>
>> Dear RV List Interest Group
>>
>> After building a right wing tank and seeing where it attaches to the spar
>> web doubler flange and onto the w-623, it appears to me that this is not
>> so strong. Have you heard of this narrow flange failing (on the spar web
>> doubler ) or cracks developing off this narrow flange or the w-623.
>>
>> Thanks for any info on this.
>>
>> Les Thompson
>> 251 Bar Two Drive
>> Douglas, Wyoming 82633
>>
>> E-Mail bartwodrive2(at)juno.com
>
>Don't try to re-engineer something that's not broken. The fuel tank
>connection to the spar is probable the last thing you'll ever have to
>worry about failing. I'd be more concern that what you are doing is
>according to the plans and with good construction practices. If you do
>this I'll see you smiling at an airshow in the near future.
>
>Frank Smidler,
>BSME w/19 years in alum. sheet metal structural construction.
>Wings done, working on finish kit (RV-6).
>
>
I've had the unpleasant experience of two friends crashing their RV-6's into
the ground. One incident resulted in 'only' a severe fracture of the
passengers right ankle; the other resulted in two fatalitys.
The reason I relate this is because in both cases the aircraft hit the
ground at greater than a 70 degree angle and the fuel tanks ruptured,
spilling fuel. There was enough force to cause the aluminum to rip apart
yet the back of the tank remained attached to the spar. I think that
clearly demonstrates that the tank attach method is very strong and reliable.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimples and engines |
You might try using pro-seal. Rich Von Moos in Eugene, OR used that to
cover all of his flush rivets on his RV-6. The finish on his plane is
smoother than a baby's tooter and is absolutely the finest looking RV6
around. Ray
>I am looking for info in two areas:
>
>1) Can anyone suggest a method of filling in the slight smiles that
>occour. Seams most of my surfaces have at least one noticible smile.
>I would like to do this in preperation for priming and painting.
>
>2) Has anyone heard any updates from the folks at Belted Air Power. I am
>hoping there engine will be viable as an alternative.
>
>Thanks to all..
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
>aol.com!JAllen6526(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>> In our product line the low end receiver is the Skyblazer Lt. Our
>> competitors offer similar products. Of course, you ought to buy our's so I
>> can afford to buy that finish kit.
>
Howdy,
I would buy a hand held but I haven't spotted one that has outputs for a
CDI or Autopilot. Also being able to accept and use data such as from
Matronics fuel flow computer would be nice.
But what would Really be the Bee's Knees is if the controls and receiver
were separate from the display. My reasoning is as display technology
improves just buy a new display. Also if a 3x3 greyscale is more to your
liking than a 3x4 color display then just mix and match. ALSO, the
separate units should be easier to position and cable in the cockpit, as I
as a passenger which does do some navigating from the right seat and
controls in the middle would help. Which leads to a possibility of dual
displays with a single receiver, wow!
Doug, sign me up to be a beta tester today!
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
John,
If you want some native names try a couple of the ones from SE Alaska.
Quite a few good ones from the days while I was stationd at the Coast Guard
Air Station in Sitka. Kwalock Kake Metlakatla Taku Hoonah Angoon Yakutat
Ray Murphy, Jr.
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6 tail feathers
>>aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Louis and all you other RV'rs who would like a nice place to live should
>>> consider Sequim, WA. It is on the northwest corner of the Olympic Peninsula
>>> and is in the rain shadow of the Olympic mountains. I rarely freezes and
>>> rarely gets above 80 degrees. The sun shines 309 days a year, which is why
>>> it has the nickname of "The Blue Hole". It is also called the "Banana
Belt".
>>> It get less rain than Los Angeles or Salt Lake City. It can be cloudy all
>>> over the northwest and the sun will be shining in Sequim. There are several
>>> private airport communities and two good municipal airports. The scenic
>>> beauty has to be seen to be appreciated. Snow capped mountains and ocean
>>> views are everywhere you look and all sorts of activities like skiing,
>>> fishing, boating, golf, etc. are available year round. I plan to retire
>>> there at an airport community called Blue Ribbon Farms. It is right on the
>>> ocean and has a 2400 foot grass strip. The area is rural but is fairly
close
>>> to major cities. Its major calling is as a retirement community.
Prices are
>>> very reasonable. Lots in my community go from about $30K to $200K depending
>>> on location and views. If you want more information about the area, E-Mail
>>> me and I can give you the name of a very good agent who will send you all
>>> sorts of information about the area. Four years, eight months, and eight
>>> days to go till I move there for good, but who's counting?
>>>
>>> Jim Cone
>>> jamescone(at)aol.com
>>
>>
>>If I lived in a place like that, I wouldn't tell anybody about it.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>I was born and raised about 25 miles east of there and I've already
>chastised Jim for even mentioning Sequim. Now, who can pronounce it
>correctly?? How about Kalaloch, Puyallup, Mulilteo, Quillayute or Spokane??
>We can always tell a native from a transplant but the way they mangle our
>native names.
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>3233 NE 95th St
>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer {chatter} |
You said:
> Any advice would be appreciated.
You've come to the right place! However, your threshold of pleasure is
too low. A better comment might have been, "Knowlegable and sage advice
is appreciated."
The archive has a week long string that recommended, interalia, the
longeron squeezer. I don't have one, so my advice meets your standards.
Ken Smith, RV 6 emp.
"You'll know you are in trouble when your threshold of pleasure is
higher than your threshold of pain."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuel Tank Attach |
<< I've had the unpleasant experience of two friends crashing their RV-6's
into
the ground >>
Sort of makes you wonder about the design, when so relatively few of these
aircraft are flying compared to factory iron, and for such a short time since
the -6 was introduced... What is our accident rate per hour flown and why
does it seem so high?
As Bob Nucholls often says, the future of light aviation is in the hands of
homebuilders and we've got to make a good showing for ourselves. I don't
know about you guys, but in the two plus years I've been plugging away at my
RV-6A, I've gotten increasingly concerned about the wisdom of my selection as
the crash total mounts. Maybe it's just a subjective and erroneous
perception... I hope so.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dimples and engines |
<< You might try using pro-seal. Rich Von Moos in Eugene, OR used that to
cover all of his flush rivets on his RV-6. The finish on his plane is
smoother than a baby's tooter and is absolutely the finest looking RV6
around. >>
Okay, I'll bite . I confess to having used Bondo and sometimes epoxy (both
mixed with microballoons, both needing lots of sanding to look right) on some
of my seams and smilies. How does one _sand_ proseal? After finishing the
tanks I never want to touch the substance again.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Kohrn <am_optic(at)gate.net> |
unsubscibe
Dave Kohrn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Ft/lbs or In/lbs?? |
I was helping an aquaintance with the restoration of a Martin 404. That's a
twin engine, 18 cylinders each, low-wing tri-gear passenger carrier. It was
built in July, 1952 and my aquaintance had flown it when he was 19 years old.
We were re-installing the vert stab. It's held on with 4 1" bolts and he
mentioned they were torqued to 4000 Ft/lbs. I asked him if he was sure
since that seemed excessive and he said, yes, 4000 _Ft/lbs_. I figured he
knew better since he had the A/P license and the book for the aircraft. We
just mounted the stab and quit since it was getting late and starting to rain.
That was a couple of days ago but this evening I grabbed my copy of
'Standard Aircraft Handbook' to check out the torque values of bolts. The
chart does _not_ say whether it's in ft/lbs or in/lbs but knowing the value
for AN3 bolts it becomes obvious that it's in in/lbs. The chart only goes
up to 3/4" but the torque value for a fine thread 3/4" bolt is 2300 to 2500
in/lbs. It seems likely that a 1" bolt would be somewhere in the range of
4000 _in/lbs_, not 4000 _ft/lbs_.
The point of this missive is to point out that sometimes even the experts
can make a mistake. I'm sure he would have noticed the error when he
started to torque the bolt; I know I did when I was installing my engine
mount bolts and tried to torque them to 160 ft/lbs. Funny how washers will
swage out from under the nut as you pass 60 ft/lbs!!
If something seems odd or wrong it probably is. Don't hesitate to hesitate;
we're building airplanes for a hobby not a job. There is always time to
check the book or ask for help.
Ok, enough advice for now.
By the way, I spelled 'Mukilteo' wrong in a recent email and, no, it isn't
something you scrape off your shoes before coming in the house.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
>Here's part of a message I sent to Van's, and their response. I think
>other quickbuilders ought to know about it. I'm in the middle of removing
>
Gee Tim, thanks a lot for the great news . Seriously, I appreciate your
bringing it to our attention.
This is NOT good news, especially since I just purchased SW to prime my
rudder with this weekend. A quick glance of my wing showed no corrosion,
you bet tonight I will be doing a close inspection.
If its any comfort, I was helping a local builder with his elevator a few
weeks ago (regular kit). His hor. stab. already had signs of corrosion on
the AN hardware. I've seen the inside of a few of my club's spam, and every
year during annual these planes have a little bit of new corrosion somewhere.
I think I'll resort to treating the inside of my RV with a corrosion
treatment such as AC-50(?) or similar, and inspect every year.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff N. Cantwell" <cantwell(at)cei.net> |
| Subject: | Re: answer to why I am selling my RV4 |
Herman Dierks wrote:
> plane looks. It also does a good job of basic aerobatics.
> I have two local pilots who want to buy it but don't have the
> $$ at this point.
>
> Herman
I'm new to the list so I must appologize for missing an earlier post.
How much is this RV-4?
--
Jeff N. Cantwell
Contracting Computer Programmer
Downtown Little Rock, AR
---------------------------
NRA Life & Member, Arkansas Rifle and Pistol Association
Check out Arkansas Rifle and Pistol Association's Homepage at
http://www.cei.net/~cantwell/ARPA.html
I'm NOT a Republican, but I'll vote like one come November.
---------------------------
"If you are not paranoid, you aren't paying attention."
Supporter of the NRA, ACLU, EFF, and Amnesty International
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | engine bill of sale |
I have located a used engine I plan to buy and wondered what is required
for legal documents other than a bill of sale? Does it need to be
notarized?
If others are interested, I will pay $8900 for a 1984 o-320 D2J, 820 SN.
out of a C-172 180hp upgrade, thus, missing fuel pump, alt, starter,
vacuum pump. It has been pickled for 1 1/2 yrs., was owned originally by
an airline pilot and had the original prop with it (no strikes). I
bought it from an RV6 kit starter who was forced to sell his project,
but, (don't you love happy endings?) just went in partnership on a nice
IFR RV6.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Wisdom of choosing a RV |
aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << I've had the unpleasant experience of two friends crashing their RV-6's
> into
> the ground >>
>
> Sort of makes you wonder about the design, when so relatively few of these
> aircraft are flying compared to factory iron, and for such a short time since
> the -6 was introduced... What is our accident rate per hour flown and why
> does it seem so high?
>
> As Bob Nucholls often says, the future of light aviation is in the hands of
> homebuilders and we've got to make a good showing for ourselves. I don't
> know about you guys, but in the two plus years I've been plugging away at my
> RV-6A, I've gotten increasingly concerned about the wisdom of my selection as
> the crash total mounts. Maybe it's just a subjective and erroneous
> perception... I hope so.
>
> Bill Boyd
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
John should have elaborated a little on the accidents he was refering
to the one where the passenger got a broken ankle was pilot error and
the pilot will tell you so, I have talked to him he likes the RVs so
much he built another one and is flying, very happy with it.
If the second accident is the one I am thinking about the pilot took
off in almost zero weather and tried to return to the airport, he flew
over the airport low and slow and then tried to make a steep 180 degree
turn with the expected results, stall, spin. If the first pilot had
been in a less will designed airplane him and his wife would most
likely not be with us today. I saw the airplane at the bottom of a
gravel pit upside down and am impressed with how well the RV-6 held up.
RV's fly a lot of hours and there are a lot of them flying but it seems
there are some pilots that always try to fly beyond their experience
level and get into trouble. If there is one fault with RV's it is that
it is such a good airplane that it makes you think you are a better
pilot than you are.
take a look at < http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.htm > and you
will see how many airplanes crash everyday it is pretty sobering.
Jerry Flight Instructor mode off now Springer
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimples and engines |
Rich said that he sanded the pro-seal after it was well dry, with a random
orbital sander. Ray
>
><< You might try using pro-seal. Rich Von Moos in Eugene, OR used that to
> cover all of his flush rivets on his RV-6. The finish on his plane is
> smoother than a baby's tooter and is absolutely the finest looking RV6
> around. >>
>
>Okay, I'll bite . I confess to having used Bondo and sometimes epoxy (both
>mixed with microballoons, both needing lots of sanding to look right) on some
>of my seams and smilies. How does one _sand_ proseal? After finishing the
>tanks I never want to touch the substance again.
>
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Plane Registration |
Taxes
> Don McNamara wrote:
>
> > I must tell all now that I have been lurking for some time gathering
> > notes and ideas. R.A.H. just dosen't have a clue most of the time, yet
> > the RV List is usually always packed with great info or advice.
> >
> > I hope that you all will be willing to help me out when I get into a > jam
> > and have run out of ideas. Thanks in advance. By the way, isn't a
> > metal airplane still a metal airplane??
> >
> > As I don my fireproof suit to ward off the flame throwers...... :)
> >
> > Check six
> > Brian McShurley, S-51D, N514BM
> > Cleaning Garage, Awaiting Kit
>
> Mister Chairman, I have a unanimous consent motion at the desk - I
> move that the RV-list declare Don's S-51D an honorary RV pursuant to
> the condition that he give at least one RV-lister a ride when it's
> done.
Only one of us? C'mon -- he should have to attend RV fly-ins in each
part of the U.S. and offer rides to at least one lister per fly-in.
Sorry about the out-of-country brethren, but I think it's a bit much to
ask him to fly across the big, scary water.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
r.acker wrote:
>
> I think I'll resort to treating the inside of my RV with a corrosion
> treatment such as AC-50(?) or similar, and inspect every year.
This is excellent advice. I work for a cargo airline, and they have an
FAA mandated regular inspection interval for corrosion. Aside from the
fact that these aircraft are used so much that the panels are always off
for maintenance and inspection, and that they were painted (including
repaired components) by a professional painter using industry materials,
tools, and practices, they DO develop corrosion. Primer is a defense,
but nothing will gaurantee a corrosion free airframe. You will always
have to inspect, inspect, inspect, for your own peace of mind.
This is one of the reasons I chose a professional to do my priming. He
is set up to etch and alodine far better than I, and has experience far
beyond me. Even so, I will inspect my parts regularly, because I am
sure I have damaged the primer while assembling and riveting. However,
it is true that there are production planes out there that are unprimed
and corrosion-free, but I bet their owners keep an eye on them just the
same.
My point for this post is to not be too concerned about your
anti-corrosion method. No method is sure, and it is possible to use no
method whatever and still not have problems. But the bottom line is
that you will always need to inspect, no matter what you do.
PatK - RV-6A - left aileron back from the painter; it's rivetin' time!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Lanier <rla469(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Primer on RV 8 Wing Spars |
I have been reading the information on the SW primer used by Vans on the
quickbuild kits. Since the spars for the RV 8 will arrive pre-assembled, I
would guess they will be pre-primed. If so, is anybody out there planning
on re-priming? Since I am not a painting expert, I was curious about the
process. Is it necessary to remove the existing primer, or can you just go
over it? This may be a stupid question to some, but I was always taught
that the stupid question is the one not asked. We all have a good sized
investment in this, I want it right the FIRST TIME!
Rob Lanier
80134
rla469(at)airmail.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Plane Registration |
Taxes
Joe Larson wrote:
>
> > Don McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > I must tell all now that I have been lurking for some time gathering
> > > notes and ideas. R.A.H. just dosen't have a clue most of the time, yet
> > > the RV List is usually always packed with great info or advice.
> > >
> > > I hope that you all will be willing to help me out when I get into a > jam
> > > and have run out of ideas. Thanks in advance. By the way, isn't a
> > > metal airplane still a metal airplane??
> > >
> > > As I don my fireproof suit to ward off the flame throwers...... :)
> > >
> > > Check six
> > > Brian McShurley, S-51D, N514BM
> > > Cleaning Garage, Awaiting Kit
TIME OUT!!!
Somewhere, sometime, somebody mixed up messages. I never said that stuff
above. Be careful when you edit messages, folks. My only comment was
that taxes on an S-51 would be quite a bit higher than those on an RV!
I've lusted after the S-51, like most everyone else, since its
introduction. The astronomical price tag is what kept it a dream instead
of reality. (A quick look at college tuition for my kids relegates me to
a frustrated RV builder.)
So, please let the record reflect that I'm outta this loop, OK? :)
--Don McNamara
#80113
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | new guy on the list |
Hello to the rv list
My father and I are building an rv-4. We have been at it for
three years this month.
The canopy is finished, Now we are working on the brakes.
I wish I Had a computer three years ago, instead of banging
my head on the wall I could have been banging on a keyboard.
Look forward to sharing info.
Regards.
CRAIG HIERS
craig-rv-4.@worldnet.att.net
N143CH
Finish THE canopy from hell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low fuel warning lights |
---------------------
From: aol.com!AV8RRR(at)matronics.com
Date: 96-10-04 00:58:26 EDT
I want to install the Acft Spruce low fuel warning light switch. I read the
discussion regarding machining down the 1\2" flange to be able to thread the
switch in but I wondered if anyone has experience as to where to place them
and how much fuel remains at that point. Thanks, Larry Scheer, Albany, NY
#21304
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
My friend in Central City, Nebraska, Bob Swanson, had his RV-6 flown for
th first time on Friday. Craig Bair, from York, NE (RV-6 best low wing, S&F
1996) did the test flight. Bob completed all of the parts for his RV-6
while living in Homer, Alaska. He hauled the dis-assembled airplane,
engine, etc. to Central City from Homer. Now, that's a long haul.
He finished painting a couple of weeks ago using my Croix turbine and
fresh air system. His paint job cost around $700 and he did a pretty good
job for a first effort. I purchased a remote, 2 quart pot to use instead of
the 1 quart pot that attaches to the gun. This, evidently, was a mistake.
Bob said it was impossible to maintain steady pressure in the pot. The 1
quart container worked out better.
The first flight lasted 15 minutes. A length of the wing root fairing on
the bottom came loose and started hitting the bottom of the plane. Craig
landed and taxied back and they were surprised to see that one of the cowl
pins was about to get into the beautiful Performance Props propeller. Bob
had a loop bent in the end and had saftied this loop to the attach screw for
the removable horizontal baffle to lower cowl seal. The hinge did not break.
The pin just vibrated forward, putting a 180 degree bend in the wire. The
end stayed saftied. If you would have told me this could have happened,
there is no way I would have believed it. Neeless to say, I intend to look
at my cowl pin arrangement under a new light and will try to come up with a
secondary security system.
I believe Bob's RV-6 weighs about 1037 lbs with the interior seats and
carpet installed. It has no gyro system, one comm radio, has a tilt canopy
and he is using a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 (this engine is a 1953 model and has
no suffix) on the conical mount. He said the prop was a little rough so is
going to use his Chadwick machine to balance the prop. Climb was around
1000 fpm at 2250 rpms and full throttle at around 5,500' was 2500 rpms and
indicated airspeed was 165. Bob is using a mechanical tach and it has not
been checked for accuracy, yet.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking Ahead |
The big problem with buyin items early is the warranty period may
be expired befor you ever use the item.
Talk to the supplier and find out how they warrant the product.
Some will base the warrenty on when you first fly the plane.
Some radio shops (also Van's) will sell you the racks and then
ship you the avionics later.
I had some problems with two instruments and Century Inst. told me
they would not warrant a 3yr old 'new' instrument. They did not even
offer to look at it. They will not get any more of my business.
The mfg of the tach (Mitchell) did agree to look at it and did fix it.
I also had a TC problem and just had it fixed locally.
The Radio Barn (Western Avionics) fixed a Narco Radio problem with no charge.
Its all tradeoffs, if the parts go up in value and are quality items
the warranty may not be a big deal. If the parts go down in value
and/or you have latent defects that they will not fix, then buying
early is a problem.
Herman
> Hello builders!
>
> I've just started my fuselage and am trying to look forward to anticipate
> when I'll need different components to finish the plane. I'm trying to time
> acquistions so that I can keep making progress without having to wait for
> kits etc, yet don't want to make large purchases too far in advance for
> obvious reasons. I'm looking for any and all input, so thanks in advance.
>
> When should I plan to get the engine? Is it needed at the same time of the
> finishing kit? Before?? After? Does it make a difference?
>
> What about radios and instruments?
>
> If given a do-over, what would you have gotten earlier? Or perhaps delayed?
>
> Dick Flunker (RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM)
> RV-6A, N326DB (res)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Re: Wisdom of choosing a RV |
Another thing to keep in mind is that there are more RV's coming on line
every month than all of the General Aviation industry combined. Therefore
you need to look at the RATE of incidents (per X number of hours flown in
the fleet) to see what is going on rather than the raw number. In any
population you will always have those who will be more prone to making the
headlines. Since this sport we love so much (obsession?) is less forgiving
to "..carelessness, incapacity or neglect", the general public gets to see
us in the headlines more than the typical couch-potatoe.
There are a LOT of RV's out there so you will naturally begin to see more
incident reports. In reality the accident rate per 100,000 hours of flight
is probably at least comparable with aircraft types of similar performance
(yes, this is speculation on my part). This in mind, I plan on attending
the test pilot school in California that has set up a course just for
homebuilders when I get close to finishing my plane. Even if a Senior RV
Pilot does the first flight we still have to do the 25 or so hours of
perforance evaluation. Why not have a better grounding in what to do and
maybe be a better pilot to boot.
Test Pilot School?
How about THAT for a week's vacation!!
Yeah, twist my arm!
Mike McGee, jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
Vancouver, WA, sn23530 (if I ever get started)
>aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> << I've had the unpleasant experience of two friends crashing their RV-6's
>> into
>> the ground >>
>>
>> Sort of makes you wonder about the design, when so relatively few of >>
--snip--
Bill Boyd
>> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
(Jerry Springer reply):
>John should have elaborated a little on the accidents he was refering
>to the one where the passenger got a broken ankle was pilot error and
>the pilot will tell you so, I have talked to him he likes the RVs so
>much he built another one and is flying, very happy with it.
>If the second accident is the one I am thinking about the pilot took
>off in almost zero weather and tried to return to the airport, he flew
>over the airport low and slow and then tried to make a steep 180 degree
>turn with the expected results, stall, spin. If the first pilot had
>been in a less will designed airplane him and his wife would most
>likely not be with us today. I saw the airplane at the bottom of a
>gravel pit upside down and am impressed with how well the RV-6 held up.
>RV's fly a lot of hours and there are a lot of them flying but it seems
>there are some pilots that always try to fly beyond their experience
>level and get into trouble. If there is one fault with RV's it is that
>it is such a good airplane that it makes you think you are a better
>pilot than you are.
>
>take a look at < http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.htm > and you
>will see how many airplanes crash everyday it is pretty sobering.
>
>Jerry Flight Instructor mode off now Springer
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
Mike McGee, Vancouver, WA
jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530 ..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild Corrosion (Chatter) |
This is just God's way of punishing those who can afford a Quickbuild, and
won't have to give up five years of evenings and weekends to see their dream
come true...
:)
Terry in Calgary
"Finishing Empennage"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>At what rate do they flash?
Tom, Found your name in the header but couldn't deciepher your E-mail
address so am addressing this to the list. The flashing rate of the "Pulse
Light" type system that Bob Nucholls made for me is about 92 times per
minute. The lights alternate. I believe that Bob will make these up or
send you the schematic so you can make one yourself. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wisdom of choosing a RV |
What test pilot school in California? Do you have an address or phone
number? Have you seen a curriculum? It sounds really interesting;
I'd like to know more about it.
Help, anyone?
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Louis:
> I have always dreamed of having
>a small place on or near an airport. 365 days/year VFR 68 deg. Avg temp,
>blue skys little puffys, etc., etc.( Hell, all you guys and gals have the
>same dream, right?). I have been giving much thought to the San Diego and to
>Napa/Sonoma areas.
I can't speak to those areas, but if you decide to look a little farther
east (Arizona), I can provide you with some pointers.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Avery Squeezer |
Gary Tree asked:
>I have a question for those who have used the Avery rivet squeezer. I
>have purchased one with a 3" yoke but it is back ordered. Would I be
>better off to get it with the longeron yoke? If I do, will I still need
>the 3" yoke? I'm just getting started on the empenage and don't expect
>to get into the wings until next year. Any advice would be appreciated.
I have the Avery squeezer and both yokes you mention.. The Longeron yoke
is FAR more versatile than than any of the standard yokes. You would be
much better off with it.
Best regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Fan (chatter) |
> (and I did use a Hobbyair respirator - highly recommended!)
I sure can second that! I painted the interior (cabin) area of my RV-6
using Imron. I used the HobbyAir with the forced-air hood, and it worked
GREAT.
ANytime you are painting Imron or any other polyurethane, or anytime you
paint ANYTHING if you have abeard (like me) you should use a forced-air
hood.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles L. Cotton" <clcotton(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wisdom of choosing a RV |
John B. Abell wrote:
>
> What test pilot school in California? Do you have an address or phone
> number? Have you seen a curriculum? It sounds really interesting;
> I'd like to know more about it.
>
> Help, anyone?
>
> Jack Abell
> RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
Hi Jack:
The Aug. '96 issue of Sport Aviation has a short article on the
school at pgs. 11-12. Here are the vitals:
National Test Pilot School (NTPS)
Mojave, CA
Art Lawless
805.824.2977
805.824.2943 (fax)
E-Mail: ntps(at)ntps.com
Web: www.hughes-ec.com/org/ntps
4 day (long weekend) and 5 day (mid-week) courses taylored for
homebuilts ($900 -> $1,100
Hope this helps:
Chas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Wisdom of choosing a RV |
>aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> << I've had the unpleasant experience of two friends crashing their RV-6's
>> into
>> the ground >>
>>
>> Sort of makes you wonder about the design, when so relatively few of these
>> aircraft are flying compared to factory iron, and for such a short time since
>> the -6 was introduced... What is our accident rate per hour flown and why
>> does it seem so high?
>>
>> As Bob Nucholls often says, the future of light aviation is in the hands of
>> homebuilders and we've got to make a good showing for ourselves. I don't
>> know about you guys, but in the two plus years I've been plugging away at my
>> RV-6A, I've gotten increasingly concerned about the wisdom of my selection as
>> the crash total mounts. Maybe it's just a subjective and erroneous
>> perception... I hope so.
>>
>> Bill Boyd
>> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
>John should have elaborated a little on the accidents he was refering
>to the one where the passenger got a broken ankle was pilot error and
>the pilot will tell you so, I have talked to him he likes the RVs so
>much he built another one and is flying, very happy with it.
>If the second accident is the one I am thinking about the pilot took
>off in almost zero weather and tried to return to the airport, he flew
>over the airport low and slow and then tried to make a steep 180 degree
>turn with the expected results, stall, spin. If the first pilot had
>been in a less will designed airplane him and his wife would most
>likely not be with us today. I saw the airplane at the bottom of a
>gravel pit upside down and am impressed with how well the RV-6 held up.
>RV's fly a lot of hours and there are a lot of them flying but it seems
>there are some pilots that always try to fly beyond their experience
>level and get into trouble. If there is one fault with RV's it is that
>it is such a good airplane that it makes you think you are a better
>pilot than you are.
>
>take a look at < http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.htm > and you
>will see how many airplanes crash everyday it is pretty sobering.
>
>Jerry Flight Instructor mode off now Springer
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
>
Jerry is absolutely right. I should have told more details. He's correctly
identified both accidents and it was amazing that the aircraft in the gravel
pit was damaged so little. In fact, the pilot in that accident used the
engine from the damaged one on his second RV. The bottom of the gravel pit
was covered with piles of gravel, the wings hit two piles while the fuselage
went into the 'hole' between piles.
I was just using the example of the two accidents to illustrate how strong
the tank attachment has been designed. It was not intended to be indicative
of any level of, or propensity for, crashes. If you were to wander through
an auto wrecking yard you might get the impression that cars were crashing
left and right (using the same reasoning as above).
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | NTSB RV Accident Synopses |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------45C31BCE6A7A
Fellow RVers,
I pursued the link Jerry Springer kindly provided in his recent e-mail
on the wisdom of choosing an RV. The link enabled me to explore the
NTSB Accident Synopses, and I copied all the synopses in the previous
four years (Oct 1992 - Sep 96) that pertained to RVs. I did this
using a textual search on "RV." It was enlightening, to say the
least.
I wonder if we builders fly often enough to maintain our currency as
pilots. Reading through these accident synopses makes me wonder if we
allow ourselves to become expert builders at the expense of our flying
skills. It is impossible to infer from reading alone whether RVs have
more or fewer materiel failures than other types of aircraft, whether
they are more or less accident prone from an operator's point of view,
or even if they have a higher or lower accident rate. The vast
majority of mishaps described in the synopses that follow were
avoidable. This may seem trite, since the same is true of virtually
every large collection of accident data, but it suggests that our
pilot proficiency may play a greater role in homebuilt accidents than
in the rest of the general aviation community. Van's articles on
pilot proficiency in past RV Newsletters try to convey pretty much the
same emphasis: we're not flying enough.
Unfortunately, most of us are constrained by lack of pecuniary
resources or what we may perceive as lack of spare time. One of the
reasons many of us embark on the homebuilding adventure is to save
money over the cost of an old, lower performance, GA aircraft.
Moreover, we don't want to take forever building our RVs so we have to
stick with it. I think it's crucial that we don't stick with it to
the point of excluding proficiency flights from our personal agenda.
I certainly don't mean to lecture; I'm no smarter than anyone else
about this. I'm simply impressed by MY need to stay current as a
pilot, even while I'm absorbed by the project. At the risk of being
tedious and boring everyone with lengthy text, I have attached the
last four years of NTSB Accident Synopses on RV accidents. There are
three such accidents not included here because no link was provided in
the database. I trust that you will find them as absorbing as I did.
Keep flying, boys and girls.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
--------------45C31BCE6A7A
NTSB Identification: LAX93LA017 For details, refer to NTSB microfiche
number
48063A
Accident occurred OCT-22-92 at LOMPOC, CA
Aircraft: PASPORELLO, J.F. RV-3, registration: N65JP
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE PILOT RECENTLY PURCHASED THE EXPERIMENTAL HOME BUILT AIRPLANE.
THE PILOT INDICATED TO AN ACQUAINTANCE THAT HE PLANNED TO FLY OVER
THE WITNESS' HOUSE AND SHOW HIM HIS AIRPLANE. THE WITNESS REPORTED
THAT HE OBSERVED THE AIRPLANE PERFORM A 120 DEGREE CLIMBING TURN
WHICH WAS FOLLOWED BY AN ABRUPT LEFT CLIMBING TURN, AND THEN A FIRE
WAS OBSERVED. OTHER WITNESSES REPORTED SEEING A FIRE AROUND BOTH
WINGS, AND THEN THE AIRPLANE DESCENDED AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED UNTIL
COLLIDING WITH THE HARD GROUND IN A NOSE LOW PITCH ATTITUDE. A FIRE
IMMEDIATELY ERUPTED WHICH FURTHER DESTROYED THE FRAGMENTED
STRUCTURE. THE EVENT WHICH PRECIPITATED THE IN FLIGHT FIRE WAS NOT
DETERMINED. THE AIRPLANE'S SLIDE TYPE CANOPY, WHICH SMELLED OF SMOKE,
WAS FOUND ABOUT 1 MILE FROM THE CRASH SITE.
Probable Cause
THE FAILURE OF AN UNIDENTIFIED AIRFRAME OR COMPONENT SYSTEM FOR
UNKNOWN REASONS AND THE RESULTING INFLIGHT FIRE.
NTSB Identification: ATL93LA078 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-19-93 at KINGSTON, TN
Aircraft: DOBBS VAN'S AIRCRAFT RV-6, registration: N316DD
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
A PILOT WHO WAS IN AN AIRPLANE ON THE GROUND AWAITING
TAKEOFF SAW THE AIRPLANE ON AN ANGLING BASE FOR RUNWAY
23. HE DESCRIBED THE AIRPLANE AS BEING CLOSE IN, IN A LEFT
TURN FROM THE BASE LEG TO THE FINAL APPROACH COURSE.
HE STATED THAT THE AIRPLANE STALLED AND ENTERED A
SPIN. AFTERWARDS HE SAW WATER FROM THE LAKE, OFF THE
APPROACH END OF 23, SPLASH UP. THE AIRPORT MANAGER
REPORTED THAT THE WIND WAS GUSTY AT THE TIME OF THE
ACCIDENT, ABOUT 15 KNOTS WITH GUSTS OF 20 TO 25 KNOTS.
AN ENTRY IN THE AIRCRAFT LOG REPORTED THE STALL
CHARACTERISTICS AS SLIGHT BUFFET, THEN A LEFT WING DROP
AT ABOUT 45 KNOTS IAS, FLAPS EXTENDED OR RETRACTED.
Probable Cause
The pilot's inadequate compensation for gusty wind conditions. A
factor was the wind gust of 20-25 knots.
NTSB Identification: NYC93LA091 For details, refer to NTSB
microfiche number 50478A
Accident occurred APR-24-93 at DANVILLE, VA
Aircraft: HOMER DAVIS RV4, registration: N22DD
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
AFTER COMPLETING A 360 DEGREE TURN AND RETURNING TO
LEVEL FLIGHT THE AIRCRAFT'S ENGINE LOST POWER. THE PILOT
ELECTED TO MAKE A FORCED LANDING IN A FIELD. THE
AIRPLANE TOUCHED DOWN IN A FIELD AND STRUCK A TREE.
EXAMINATION OF THE CARBURETOR REVEALED THAT THE
NEEDLE VALVE WAS INTERMITTENTLY STICKING ON THE SEAT.
FURTHER EXAMINATION REVEALED THAT THE SPRING WIRE
CLIP ON THE NEEDLE VALVE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO
OPEN UP THE VALVE WHEN IT GOT STUCK.
Probable Cause
THE LOSS OF ENGINE POWER DUE TO A STUCK CARBURETOR
NEEDLE VALVE; SUBSEQUENT FORCED LANDING IN UNSUITABLE
TERRAIN, AND IMPACT WITH A TREE.
NTSB Identification: NYC93LA095 For details, refer to NTSB
microfiche number 50488A
Accident occurred APR-30-93 at FARMINGDALE, NJ
Aircraft: MACPHEE RV6, registration: N726WM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
THE PILOT WAS STARTING THE ENGINE TO PREPARE FOR
FLIGHT. HE PLACED THE THROTTLE IN THE FULL FORWARD
POSITION DURING THE START ATTEMPT. THE ENGINE STARTED
AND BECAUSE THE THROTTLE WAS STILL IN THE FORWARD
POSITION, IT DEVELOPED HIGH POWER. THE AIRPLANE LURCHED
FORWARD AND THE PROPELLER STRUCK THE RAMP. AFTER THIS
OCCURRED, THE TAIL "SLAMMED" ONTO THE TAILWHEEL AND
DAMAGED THE FUSELAGE.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S IMPROPER STARTING PROCEDURE, WHICH CAUSED
THE AIRPLANE TO NOSE DOWN.
NTSB Identification: LAX93LA201 For details, refer to NTSB
microfiche number 51125A
Accident occurred MAY-05-93 at TRINITY CENTER, CA
Aircraft: T.R. BRISTOL RV-6, registration: N15TP
Injuries: 1 Minor, 1 Uninjured.
THE PILOT TOLD A FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR THAT HE LIFTED OFF
THE GROUND TOO SOON, CAUGHT A GUST OF WIND, DRIFTED OFF
THE SIDE OF THE RUNWAY AND HIT SOME BRUSH WHILE STILL
PILOT'S WIFE SAID THAT THERE WAS A GUST OF WIND, AND
SHORTLY AFTER TAKEOFF, HER HUSBAND COULD NOT CONTROL
THE DIRECTION OF THE AIRPLANE. THE PILOT TOLD THE FAA
THAT THERE WAS NO MECHANICAL MALFUNCTION, JUST HIS
TECHNIQUE.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT FAILURE TO OBTAIN ENOUGH AIRSPEED FOR TAKEOFF
WHICH RESULTED IN A LOSS OF AIRCRAFT CONTROL, AND HIS
FAILURE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE CROSSWIND CONDITIONS.
NTSB Identification: ATL93LA090 For details, refer to NTSB
microfiche number 52765A
Accident occurred MAY-09-93 at GREENWOOD, SC
Aircraft: RAPP VAN'S RV-4, registration: N743DR
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
ABOUT FIVE MINUTES INTO THE FLIGHT, THE PILOT
EXPERIENCED A LOSS OF ENGINE POWER, BUT REGAINED POWER
FOR 5 SECONDS BEFORE THE ENGINE QUIT AGAIN. THE PILOT
ATTEMPTED AN EMERGENCY LANDING TO A FIVE LANE HIGHWAY,
BUT COLLIDED WITH TWO ONCOMING TRUCKS ABOUT FIVE FEET
ABOVE THE GROUND PRIOR, TO TOUCHDOWN. EXAMINATION OF
THE AIRCRAFT FAILED TO DISCLOSE A MECHANICAL PROBLEM.
ACCORDING TO THE ICING PROBABILITY CURVES, WEATHER
CONDITIONS EXISTED WHICH WERE FAVORABLE FOR THE
FORMATION OF CARBURETOR ICE. ACCORDING TO THE PILOT,
THE AIRPLANE WAS NOT EQUIPPED WITH A CARBURETOR HEAT
SOURCE
Probable Cause
THE LOSS OF ENGINE POWER WHICH RESULTED FROM THE
FORMATION OF CARBURETOR ICE. THE LACK OF A CARBURETOR
HEAT SOURCE AND THE CARBURETOR ICING CONDITIONS WERE
FACTORS
NTSB Identification: FTW93LA161 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred MAY-21-93 at TYLER, TX
Aircraft: LEWIS RV4, registration: N61DL
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
DURING A PLEASURE FLIGHT THE PILOT HAD LANDED AT A
PRIVATE AIR STRIP; HE REPORTED THAT CONTROL WAS LOST
WHEN THE LEFT BRAKE LOCKED UP DURING THE LANDING ROLL.
AN INSPECTION OF THE LANDING GEAR AND BRAKE SYSTEM
REVEALED NO ANOMOLIES.
Probable Cause
PILOT'S LOSS OF DIRECTIONAL CONTROL.
NTSB Identification: SEA93LA146 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-01-93 at INDEPENDENCE, OR
Aircraft: DOELLEFELD RV6A, registration: N6LG
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
DURING THE TAKEOFF ROLL, THE NEWLY CERTIFIED
EXPERIMENTAL RV6A VEERED SUDDENLY TO THE LEFT AND
BEGAN TO DEPART THE SIDE OF THE RUNWAY. WHILE
DEPARTING THE RUNWAY, THE AIRCRAFT LIFTED OFF, BUT
ACCORDING TO WITNESSES, THE PILOT DID NOT APPEAR TO BE
IN POSITIVE CONTROL. THE AIRCRAFT THEN CONTINUED TO A
POSITION NEAR THE DOWNWIND, BEFORE ROLLING TO THE LEFT
AND DESCENDING INTO THE GROUND AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED.
THE PILOT WAS OBSERVED TO MAKE NO MOVEMENT WHILE THE
AIRCRAFT WAS AIRBORNE, AND HE DID NOT RESPOND ON HIS
RADIO WHEN ANOTHER PILOT, WHO HAD MADE RADIO CONTACT
WITH HIM JUST PRIOR TO THE TAKEOFF, TRANSMITTED A RADIO
MESSAGE TO HIM TO SEE IF HE WAS HAVING TROUBLE.
Probable Cause
AN IN FLIGHT LOSS OF CONTOL FOR UNKNOWN REASONS.
NTSB Identification: CHI93DEP02 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-24-93 at LAKE DELTON, WI
Aircraft: STOECKLER RV-4, registration: N720DS
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
WITNESSES OBSERVED THE AIRPLANE MANEUVERING NEAR A
RESIDENTIAL AREA, MAKING 30 TO 45 DEGREE BANKED LEFT
TURNS. ON THE LAST CIRCLE THE AIRPLANE COLLIDED WITH
TREE TOPS, LEVELED MOMENTARILY AND THEN NOSED OVER
AND IMPACTED THE TERRAIN.
Probable Cause
the pilot-in-command's failure to maintain proper altitude. A factor
was trees.
NTSB Identification: MIA93FA184 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred AUG-27-93 at GRAND RIDGE, FL
Aircraft: REHER, KENT O. RV 6, registration: N220KM
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
Pilot reported to ATC that he was descending from 13,500 feet to
11,500 feet. When passing 11,500 feet the pilot reported he was
descending to 9,500 feet. No further communication was made with
the pilot. Radar data showed the aircraft descended normally until
passing 10,000 feet. At that point the aircraft descended rapidly and
was lost from radar at 5,200 feet. Eyewitnesses observed the aircraft
in normal flight at about 10,000 feet. The aircraft's wing rocked back
and forth and the aircraft then nosed over and descended vertically
with the engine operating at high rpm until ground impact. Postcrash
examination of the aircraft revealed all components necessary for
flight were located on or around the main wreckage. No evidence to
indicate precrash failure or malfunction of the aircraft structure,
flight controls, or engine was found. No evidence of in-flight bird
contact was found. The aircraft kit manufacturer reported that he has
not seen any stability or control problems that would cause
uncontrolled vertical descent. The pilot was reported to be in good
health and good spirits before the flight.
Probable Cause
UNDETERMINED.
NTSB Identification: SEA93LA192 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred SEP-05-93 at SALMON, ID
Aircraft: WESTHOLM VANS RV-6, registration: N16JL
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
THE PILOT TOOK OFF, CLIMBED TO ABOUT 50 FEET AGL, AND THE
ENGINE QUIT. HE INITIATED A FORCED LANDING AND THE ACFT
STRUCK A FENCE POST DURING GROUND ROLL. A POST ACCIDENT
EXAMINATION REVEALED THE GASCOLATOR FUEL DRAIN WAS
LOCKED IN THE OPEN POSITION.
Probable Cause
THE INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION BY THE
PIC IN HIS FAILURE TO CLOSE THE FUEL DRAIN VALVE. A FACTOR
RELATING TO THE ACCIDENT WAS THE FENCE POST LOCATED IN
THE LANDING AREA.
NTSB Identification: ATL93LA156 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred SEP-11-93 at STATESVILLE, NC
Aircraft: BROWN VAN'S RV-3, registration: N115DB
Injuries: 1 Serious.
THE PILOT ATTEMPTED A LOW PASS MANEUVER OVER THE
PRIVATE AIRSTRIP AND COLLIDED WITH NEARBY, UTILITY LINES
ABOUT 40 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND. ACCORDING TO WITNESSES
THE AIRPLANE WAS FLYING AT SPEEDS MORE THAN 200 MPH
AND THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO AVOID THE COLLISION; THE
SOUTHERLY FLIGHT PATH PLACED THE SUN INTO THE PILOT
EYES. EXAMINATION OF THE AIRCRAFT FAILED TO DISCLOSE ANY
MECHANICAL PROBLEMS WITH THE AIRPLANE, NOR WERE
AIRCRAFT PROBLEMS NOTICED OR HEARD BY THE GROUND
OBSERVERS.
Probable Cause
WAS THE PILOT'S FAILURE TO SEE AND AVOID UTILITY LINES. A
FACTOR WAS THE SUNGLARE.
NTSB Identification: LAX93LA355
Accident occurred SEP-11-93 at MESA, AZ
Aircraft: ALFRED F. DIBERNARDINO RV-6A, registration: N45FD
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
THE PILOT WAS CONDUCTING A LOCAL TRAFFIC PATTERN
PERSONAL FLIGHT. ON THE FIRST APPROACH THE PILOT
INADVERTENTLY STALLED THE AIRPLANE DURING THE LANDING
FLARE. THE AIRPLANE SUSTAINED A HARD LANDING WHICH
COLLAPSED THE NOSE AND RIGHT MAIN LANDING GEARS.
Probable Cause
the pilot's failure to maintain the landing airspeed. The inadvertent
stall was a factor related to this accident.
NTSB Identification: LAX93LA372 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred SEP-30-93 at ELY, NV
Aircraft: CRYDER RV-6, registration: N607DC
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
The pilot reported that during the ground roll portion of takeoff the
left main landing gear tire blew out. The pilot aborted the takeoff by
reducing engine power. The airplane veered off the runway, entered a
gravel area, and collided with a runway sign. The runway was 5998
feet long by 150 feet wide.
Probable Cause
the pilot's failure to maintain directional control of his conventional
gear airplane after the failure of a main landing gear tire.
NTSB Identification: NYC94LA010 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-15-93 at HATFIELD, MA
Aircraft: SCHLAPPI RV3, registration: N669CP
Injuries: 1 Minor.
THE PILOT WAS ON APPROACH TO RUNWAY 29 WHEN HE LANDED
ABOUT 35 FEET SHORT OF THE RUNWAY AND THE AIRPLANE
STRUCK A DIRT BANK. THE PILOT REPORTED THE APPROACH WAS
ROUTINE UNTIL SHORT FINAL, WHEN THE AIRPORT AND TREES
"STARTED TO" BOIL UNDER ME AND I ADDED POWER TO
"MAINTAIN ALTITUDE BUT THE (DIRT BANK) CAME UP..." THE
PILOT REPORTED NO MECHANICAL MALFUNCTION.
Probable Cause
The pilot misjudged his distance and altitude which resulted in an
undershoot of the runway. A factor was his delay in intiating a go
around.
NTSB Identification: ATL94LA027 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred DEC-07-93 at RIDGELAND, SC
Aircraft: WONDER VAN'S ACFT RV-6, registration: N443MW
Injuries: 1 Minor.
BEFORE DESCENT, THE PILOT NOTED A SLIGHT ENGINE
VIBRATION. DURING DESCENT, HE NOTICED THAT THE
ELECTRONIC TACHOMETER FOR THE RIGHT MAGNETO WAS
READING ZERO AND BLUE SMOKE BEGAN ENTERING THE
COCKPIT. THE PILOT REPORTED THAT OIL BEGAN COVERING
PORTIONS OF THE WINDSCREEN AND THE ENGINE SEIZED. HE
MADE AN EMERGENCY LANDING IN A COTTON FIELD ABOUT
SEVEN MILES WEST OF THE DESTINATION AIRPORT. DURING
THE LANDING ROLL, THE AIRPLANE ENCOUNTERED AN AREA OF
SOFT DIRT AND NOSED OVER. POST-ACCIDENT EXAMINATION OF
THE ENGINE REVEALED THAT THE RIGHT MAGNETO HAD
SEPARATED FROM THE CRANKCASE, CAUSING A LARGE HOLE
FROM WHICH OIL COULD ESCAPE FROM THE ENGINE. THE LEFT
MAGNETO WAS ALSO FOUND IN THE EARLY STAGES OF
SEPARATION FROM THE ENGINE. THE MAGNETOS HAD BEEN
INSTALLED 16 HOURS BEFORE THE ACCIDENT BY A CERTIFIED
REPAIR STATION.
Probable Cause
IMPROPER INSTALLATION OF THE MAGNETOS BY MAINTENANCE
PERSONNEL, WHICH ALLOWED THE RIGHT MAGNETO TO COME
LOOSE, OIL TO ESCAPE FROM THE ENGINE, AND SUBSEQUENT
OIL STARVATION.
NTSB Identification: LAX94FA081 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred DEC-26-93 at LA VERNE, CA
Aircraft: GOLIGHTLY RV-4, registration: N312RG
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
Witnesses stated that the airplane was about 200- to 300-feet high in
the takeoff initial climb when they heard a loss of engine power. They
stated that the airplane abruptly rolled to the right into what
appeared to be the start of a spin, then impacted into an aircraft tie
down area on the airport about 500 feet from the runway centerline.
Postcrash examination of the fuel selector revealed two loose fuel line
"B" nuts at the selector and a loose fuel line fitting in the selector
body with less than three threads of engagement. The engine fuel
primer was found unlocked and out about 1/4 inch.
Probable Cause
a loss of engine power due to the improper maintenance and
installation of the fuel system lines and fittings, and the pilot's
failure to ensure the engine fuel primer was locked prior to takeoff. An
additional cause was the pilot's failure to maintain minimum airspeed
to avoid a stall while maneuvering after the engine power loss and the
inadvertent entry into a stall/spin.
NTSB Identification: CHI94LA079 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred FEB-06-94 at RICHLAND, MO
Aircraft: ROBERTS RV-6A, registration: N63JR
Injuries: 1 Serious, 1 Minor.
THE PILOT REPORTED THAT HE FLEW THE HOMEBUILT
AIRPLANE LOCALLY FOR ABOUT 45 MINUTES, THEN MADE A FULL
STOP LANDING AT ANOTHER AIRPORT. SOON THEREAFTER, HE
ELECTED TO TAKEOFF ON THE RETURN FLIGHT. HE STATED
THAT WHEN HE APPLIED FULL THROTTLE TO TAKE OFF, THE
ENGINE STOPPED RUNNING. THE PILOT RESTARTED THE
ENGINE, USING THE PRIMER, BUT IT QUIT RUNNING AGAIN
SHORTLY AFTER STARTING. HE RESTARTED THE ENGINE AGAIN
AND THIS TIME IT CONTINUED RUNNING. THE PILOT
PERFORMED A FULL STATIC RUN-UP. FINDING NOTHING WRONG
DURING THE RUN-UP, HE TOOK OFF AND FLEW BACK TO THE
HOME AIRPORT. WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH TO LAND, THE
ENGINE LOST POWER AGAIN. DURING A SUBSEQUENT
EMERGENCY LANDING, THE AIRPLANE COLLIDED WITH TREES
AND THE TERRAIN. AN ON-SCENE INVESTIGATION REVEALED A
CLEAN AND FUNCTIONAL FUEL SYSTEM. THE TEMPERATURE AND
DEW POINT WERE 56 AND 24 DEGREES, RESPECTIVELY, WHICH
WOULD HAVE BEEN MARGINALLY CONDUCIVE FOR CARBURETOR
ICE. NO PREIMPACT MECHANICAL PROBLEM WAS FOUND THAT
WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN THE LOSS OF POWER.
Probable Cause
LOSS OF ENGINE POWER (DURING FLIGHT) FOR AN
UNDETERMINED REASON, AFTER THE PILOT EXPERIENCED LOSS
OF ENGINE POWER BEFORE TAKEOFF FOR AN UNKNOWN REASON.
NTSB Identification: SEA94LA101 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-15-94 at ENTERPRISE, OR
Aircraft: ASHER RV-6, registration: N7057G
Injuries: 1 Minor, 1 Uninjured.
JUST AFTER TAKEOFF, THE AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED A PARTIAL
LOSS OF POWER, AND THE PILOT ELECTED TO ATTEMPT A
FORCED LANDING ON THE NEARBY UNSUITABLE TERRAIN.
INSPECTION OF THE AIRCRAFT REVEALED THAT THE INDUCTION
AIR FILTER WAS PARTIALLY BLOCKED BY FRAGMENTS OF AN
INSULATING MATERIAL THAT THE BUILDER HAD WRAPPED
AROUND THE EXHAUST SYSTEM.
Probable Cause
A LOSS OF POWER DUE TO A PARTIALLY BLOCKED INDUCTION AIR
FILTER. FACTORS INCLUDE NO SUITABLE TERRAIN ON WHICH TO
EXECUTE A FORCED LANDING.
NTSB Identification: SEA94LA107 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-23-94 at WESTON, ID
Aircraft: RICH RV-4, registration: N3344E
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
WHILE MANEUVERING IN SERIOUS ICING ATMOSPHERIC
CONDITIONS, THE FUEL/AIR FLOW IN THE THROTTLE BODY
INJECTOR BECAME RESTRICTED BY ICE BUILD-UP, AND THE
ENGINE LOST POWER. THE PILOT SWITCHED FUEL TANKS,
TURNED ON THE AUXILIARY FUEL PUMP, AND CYCLED THE
IGNITION/MAGNETO SWITCH, BUT DID NOT APPLY CARBURETOR
HEAT. BEING UNABLE TO RESTART THE ENGINE, THE PILOT
ATTEMPTED A FORCED LANDING ON THE UNSUITABLE TERRAIN.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S FAILURE TO USE CARBURETOR HEAT. FACTORS
INCLUDE CARBURETOR ICING CONDITIONS, AND NO SUITABLE
SITE FOR A FORCED LANDING.
NTSB Identification: FTW94FA149 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred MAY-07-94 at ELBERT, CO
Aircraft: ROBL RV4, registration: N88LG
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
THE PILOT RADIOED HE WAS GOING TO MAKE A LOW
NORTH-SOUTH PASS OVER THE GLIDERPORT. WITNESSES SAID
THE AIRPLANE FLEW 20 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND, PULLED UP
TO 800 FEET, DID A WINGOVER, AND ENTERED A SPIN. ONE
WITNESS SAW THE AIRPLANE STOP SPINNING JUST BEFORE
IMPACT. SHE SAID THE NOSE PITCHED UP ABRUPTLY, THE
AIRPLANE ENTERED AN ACCELERATED STALL, AND DISAPPEARED
FROM VIEW IN A FLAT ATTITUDE. THE PILOT'S LOGBOOK
REVEALED 2.1 HOURS OF AEROBATIC INSTRUCTION AND 7.1
HOURS SOLO AEROBATICS IN VARIOUS AIRPLANES IN 1992. IN
1993 AND 1994, THE PILOT LOGGED 9.1 HOURS OF SOLO
AEROBATICS IN THE RV4, INCLUDING LOOPS, ROLLS, INVERTED
FLIGHT, WINGOVERS, AND SPINS.
Probable Cause
AN INADVERTENT STALL SPIN. A FACTOR WAS THE PILOT'S
PERFORMANCE OF AEROBATIC MANEUVERS AT AN INADEQUATE
ALTITUDE.
NTSB Identification: SEA94LA150 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUN-16-94 at CROWHEART, WY
Aircraft: SCHELL RV-6A, registration: N48TS
Injuries: 1 Serious, 1 Minor.
THE PILOT AND PASSENGER DEPARTED ON A LOCAL
SIGHTSEEING FLIGHT INTO MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN. DURING
THE FLIGHT THEY ENCOUNTERED STRONG WIND CONDITIONS
AND THE PILOT DECIDED TO RETURN TO HIS RANCH AND LAND.
THE PASSENGER REPORTED THAT DURING THE COURSE
REVERSAL A GUST OF WIND SLAMMED THE AIRCRAFT TO THE
GROUND.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT IN COMMAND'S FAILURE TO MAINTAIN ADEQUATE
ALTITUDE. A FACTOR WAS DOWNDRAFT CONDITIONS.
NTSB Identification: SEA94LA184 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-17-94 at TWISP, WA
Aircraft: BLACK RV-4, registration: N144US
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
THE PILOT OF THE AMATEUR-BUILT EXPERIMENTAL BLACK RV-4
SAID THAT "THE BOTTOM DROPPED OUT" WHEN HE WAS ON
APPROACH FOR LANDING. THE AIRCRAFT BOUNCED BACK INTO
THE AIR AFTER A HARD LANDING, WITH ITS THROTTLE AND
MIXTURE CONTROL JAMMED. THE PILOT WAS ABLE TO FLY THE
AIRCRAFT, WHICH WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DAMAGED DURING THE
HARD LANDING, TO ANOTHER AIRPORT AND SUCCESSFULLY LAND.
Probable Cause
PROPER DESCENT RATE WAS NOT MAINTAINED DURING
APPROACH.
NTSB Identification: NYC94LA133 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-19-94 at FARMINGDALE, NJ
Aircraft: HOOPES RV-6, registration: N269RH
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
DURING LANDING THE AIRPLANE RAN OFF THE SIDE OF THE
RUNWAY AND COLLIDED WITH A DIRTBANK. ACCORDING TO THE
PILOT, "UPON TOUCH DOWN, (HE) BLANKED OUT TO
SEMI-CONSCIOUS AND COULD NOT CONTROL PLANE." THE PILOT
REPORTED THAT HE HAD DONATED BLOOD EARLIER IN THE DAY,
WHICH IS WHAT HE BELIEVES IS THE REASON FOR THE
SEMI-CONSCIOUSNESS. HE STATED THAT HE SHOULD HAVE
WAITED 2 DAYS AFTER THE BLOOD DONATION, BEFORE PILOTING
AN AIRCRAFT.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S IMPROPER DECISION TO FLY AFTER DONATING
BLOOD WHICH RESULTED IN HIS INCAPACITATION.
NTSB Identification: CHI94LA259 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred AUG-01-94 at CARTHAGE, MO
Aircraft: STUGART VANS RV-6, registration: N29PT
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
THE AIRPLANE BOUNCED ON LANDING AT THE MEYERS AIR PARK,
CARTHAGE, MISSOURI. THE PILOT FAILED TO MAINTAIN
DIRECTIONAL CONTROL AND THE AIRPLANE LANDED IN THE
GRASS PARALLEL TO THE RUNWAY. DURING LANDING ROLL, IN
THE GRASS, THE AIRPLANE ENCOUNTERED AN AREA WHICH HAD
BEEN PLOWED, AND NOSED OVER.
Probable Cause
failure of the pilot to maintain directional control during landing and
unsuitable terrain encountered during the landing roll.
NTSB Identification: SEA94LA202 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred AUG-01-94 at GLENDIVE, MT
Aircraft: GROCE VANS RV-4, registration: N7GJ
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
An airline customer service agent observed the aircraft during takeoff,
noting that it was airborne at 10 to 15 feet above the ground and "not
really gaining altitude." She did not witness the crash. The captain of
a commuter flight noted that "after rotation approx 25' or so, his left
wing dipped downward, aircraft seemed under powered. It was hot,
Density alt(itude) 5200' lite gusty winds." The commuter captain did
not see the aircraft crash. Witnesses noted that the airplane became
airborne in the first quarter of the runway. During on-site inspection,
FAA inspectors noted that the aft cockpit was loaded with camping
gear, including a tent, campstove, six cans of food, a large clothing
bag, camera, headset, and five or six jars, as well as an extensive
collection of aviation literature. When the wreckage was inspected, no
mechanical discrepancies were noted by FAA personnel.
Probable Cause
AIRSPEED WAS NOT MAINTAINED AFTER TAKEOFF. A FACTOR WAS
HIGH DENSITY ALTITUDE.
NTSB Identification: FTW95LA010 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-05-94 at MARBLE FALLS, TX
Aircraft: WINN RV-6A, registration: N600CW
Injuries: 3 Minor.
DURING LANDING RUNWAY 17 THE PILOT ENCOUNTERED A
"SEVERE DOWN DRAFT" AND THE AIRCRAFT IMPACTED SHORT
RESULTING IN DAMAGE TO THE FUSELAGE AND WINGS.
EVIDENCE AT THE ACCIDENT SCENE (BENT VEGETATION)
REVEALED STRONG GUSTING WINDS FROM THE SOUTH. THE
PILOT REPORTED WIND WAS FROM THE SOUTH AT ABOUT 20
KNOTS.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S IMPROPER COMPENSATION FOR THE WIND
CONDITIONS. A FACTOR WAS THE UNFAVORABLE WINDS.
NTSB Identification: LAX95LA013 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-19-94 at BRIDGEPORT, CA
Aircraft: STAN G. HALLAM RV-6, registration: N93SJ
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
THE PILOT WAS COMPLETING A VFR PERSONAL FLIGHT. THE
PILOT SAID THAT WHILE ON FINAL APPROACH, HE EXPERIENCED
A SINK RATE WHICH HE WAS UNABLE TO ARREST BEFORE THE
AIRPLANE COLLIDED WITH THE TERRAIN SHORT OF THE RUNWAY
THRESHOLD. HE SAID HE DID NOT EXPERIENCE ANY MECHANICAL
PROBLEMS AND THE WIND WAS CALM.
Probable Cause
the pilot's poorly planned approach, his failure to maintain the proper
airspeed and descent rate, and his failure to perform the necessary
remedial action.
NTSB Identification: CHI95DTK01 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JAN-08-95 at LENNOX, SD
Aircraft: GAY RV-4, registration: N29PG
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
A WITNESS REPORTED THAT THE AIRPLANE WAS FLYING LOW
ALTITUDE AEROBATIC MANEUVERS IN THE VICINITY OF THE
ACCIDENT SITE. RADAR TRACKING DATA, AVAILABLE ABOVE AN
ALTITUDE OF APPROX 800 FT AGL, ALSO SHOWS A VFR TARGET
CONDUCTING LOW ALTITUDE AEROBATIC MANEUVERS.
EXAMINATION OF THE WRECKAGE REVEALED NO EVIDENCE OF
PREIMPACT AIRCRAFT OR ENGINE MALFUNCTION. THE AIRPLANE
HAD COME TO REST 132 FT FROM THE FIRST IMPACT WITH THE
GROUND. TOXICOLOGICAL TESTS REVEALED 0.031 UG/ML
BROMPHENIRAMINE AND 0.012 UG/ML DIPHENHYDRAMINE IN
THE BLOOD SPECIMEN. THERAPEUTIC LEVELS ARE 0.016-0.070
AND 0.100 RESPECTIVELY. BROMPHENIRAMINE AND
DIPHENHYDRAMINE (ANTIHISTAMINES) ARE ACTIVE
INGREDIENTS IN MANY NONPRESCRIPTION COLD AND ALLERGY
MEDICATIONS, AND CAN CAUSE DROWSINESS.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S FAILURE TO MAINTAIN ADEQUATE ALTITUDE WHILE
PERFORMING AEROBATIC MANEUVERS. THE PILOT'S
IMPAIRMENT OF JUDGMENT AND PERFORMANCE DUE TO DRUGS
WAS A FACTOR.
NTSB Identification: MIA95LA064 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JAN-28-95 at ZELLWOOD, FL
Aircraft: BEEBE, DALE G. RV-6, registration: N109DB
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
THE PILOT OF THE EXPERIMENTAL AIRPLANE STATED THE
CANOPY OPENED JUST AFTER LIFTOFF. HE FURTHER STATED HE
"WAS OUT OF RUNWAY" AND THEN REDUCED POWER IN AN
ATTEMPT TO ABORT TAKEOFF. HE FLEW PAST THE END OF THE
RUNWAY, COLLIDED WITH TREES, AND NOSED OVER.
Probable Cause
THE IMPROPER IN-FLIGHT DECISION BY THE PILOT TO ABORT
TAKEOFF WITH INSUFFICIENT RUNWAY REMAINING.
NTSB Identification: FTW95LA122 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred FEB-25-95 at BRIGHTON, CO
Aircraft: MORRISON, MARVIN E. RV-4, registration: N872MM
Injuries: 2 Minor.
DURING INITIAL CLIMB FOLLOWING TAKEOFF, THE ENGINE LOST
POWER AND THE PILOT CONDUCTED A FORCED LANDING TO A
PLOWED FIELD. THE LANDING GEAR DUG IN AND THE AIRCRAFT
NOSED OVER. AUTOMOTIVE FUEL WAS BEING USED IN THE
AIRCRAFT AT THE TIME. AN FAA INSPECTOR, WHO EXAMINED
THE AIRCRAFT, FOUND NO EVIDENCE AS TO WHY THE ENGINE
LOST POWER.
Probable Cause
A TOTAL LOSS OF POWER FOR UNKNOWN REASONS. A FACTOR WAS
THE LACK OF SUITABLE TERRAIN FOR A FORCED LANDING.
NTSB Identification: SEA95LA074 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-02-95 at RENTON, WA
Aircraft: MIRSEPASY VAN'S RV-6A, registration: N35EM
Injuries: 2 Serious.
GROUND WITNESSES, SOME OF WHOM WERE PILOTS, OBSERVED
THE HOME BUILT AIRPLANE PITCHING UP AND DOWN DURING
THE STRAIGHT-IN APPROACH TO THE RUNWAY. NO UNUSUAL
ENGINE NOISES WERE REPORTED BY THE WITNESSES, AND NO
DISTRESS CALLS WERE MADE BY THE PRIVATE PILOT TO THE
CONTROL TOWER. THE AIRPLANE WAS THEN OBSERVED TO PITCH
UP AND "SLAM HARD" ONTO THE RUNWAY AFTER A DECREASE IN
ENGINE POWER. THE AIRPLANE THEN BOUNCED INTO THE AIR
AND BEGAN TO DRIFT OFF THE RUNWAY. AFTER THE AIRPLANE
IMPACTED THE RUNWAY A SECOND TIME, THE ENGINE WAS
HEARD TO "REV UP." THE AIRPLANE THEN PITCHED UP, BANKED
TO THE LEFT, DESCENDED LEFT WING FIRST INTO THE GROUND,
AND CARTWHEELED OFF THE WEST EDGE OF THE RUNWAY. NO
PREIMPACT MECHANICAL MALFUNCTIONS WERE REPORTED BY
THE PILOT OR FOUND BY INVESTIGATORS. THE WIND WAS
BLOWING STRAIGHT DOWN THE RUNWAY (FROM 330 DEGREES)
AT 11 KNOTS. THE PILOT STATED THAT HE COULD NOT
REMEMBER THE LANDING.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT'S FAILURE TO RECOVER FROM THE BOUNCED
LANDING, AND HIS FAILURE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE
AIRPLANE. CONTRIBUTING TO THE ACCIDENT WAS THE PILOT'S
FAILURE TO MAINTAIN AN ADEQUATE DESCENT RATE TOWARD
THE RUNWAY.
NTSB Identification: MIA95FA105 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-12-95 at DAVIE, FL
Aircraft: PACKARD/SQUIRE RV-4, registration: N233AB
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
WITNESSES DRIVING ON A HIGHWAY REPORTED SEEING THE
AIRPLANE FLYING WESTERLY ABOUT 300 FT AGL, THEN BANK TO
THE RIGHT AND DESCEND NOSE LOW IMPACTING THE HIGHWAY.
THE AIRPLANE SLID ACROSS THE TWO EASTBOUND LANES OF
THE HIGHWAY, CAME TO REST INVERTED ON THE GRASS
MEDIAN, AND WAS DESTROYED BY POSTCRASH FIRE.
EXAMINATION OF THE FLIGHT CONTROLS AND ENGINE REVEALED
NO EVIDENCE OF PREIMPACT FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION. THE
RIGHT WING FUEL TANK WAS RUPTURED AT THE INBOARD
FORWARD SECTION. THE LEFT WING FUEL TANK WAS NOT
RUPTURED, AND NO FUEL WAS NOTED. THE FUEL SELECTOR WAS
FOUND POSITIONED TO THE RIGHT FUEL TANK. FUEL
CONSUMPTION CALCULATIONS REVEALED ABOUT 20.7 GALS OF
FUEL USED SINCE LAST REFUELING. EACH FUEL TANK HOLDS
ABOUT 16 GALS OF FUEL.
Probable Cause
ENGINE FUEL STARVATION DUE TO THE PILOT'S FUEL
MISMANAGEMENT. A LOSS OF CONTROL FOLLOWED AS THE PILOT
INADVERTENTLY STALLED THE AIRPLANE WHILE MANEUVERING
FOR THE FORCED LANDING.
NTSB Identification: SEA95LA149 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-15-95 at ELK RIVER, ID
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
DURING THE LANDING ROLL, THE AIRPLANE VEERED TO THE
LEFT AND INTO THE TALL GRASS ALONGSIDE THE AIRSTRIP. THE
PILOT TRIED TO CORRECT WITH RIGHT RUDDER CONTROL AND
POWER; HOWEVER, THE AIRPLANE CONTINUED OFF THE
AIRSTRIP, THROUGH THE TALL GRASS AND COLLIDED WITH A
FENCE. THE AIRGUIDE INDICATES THAT THE RUNWAY IS 150
FEET WIDE; HOWEVER, THE PILOT REPORTED THAT THE GRASS
HAD BEEN MOWED TO ONLY A 21 FOOT WIDTH. THE REMAINING
AREA AROUND THE AIRSTRIP WAS TALL GRASS.
Probable Cause
THE PILOT FAILED TO MAINTAIN DIRECTIONAL CONTROL. THE
TALL VEGETATION WAS A FACTOR.
NTSB Identification: LAX95LA258 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred JUL-20-95 at CORCORAN, CA
Aircraft: MARGESON/HEIDEBRINK VANS RV-3, registration: N18DT
Injuries: 1 Serious.
THE PILOT INDICATED THAT HE EXPERIENCED A LOSS OF
ENGINE POWER WHILE CRUISING ABOUT 4,000 FEET ABOVE THE
GROUND AND WAS ATTEMPTING TO MAKE A FORCED LANDING AT
A PRIVATE AIRSTRIP HE NOTICED WHILE DESCENDING. A
GROUND WITNESS WAS DRIVING ON A HIGHWAY AND OBSERVED
THE AIRCRAFT GLIDING DOWN TOWARDS A FIELD. THE WITNESS
SAID THE AIRCRAFT STARTED A CLIMB FROM ABOUT 150 FEET
AGL, THEN TURNED RAPIDLY TO THE LEFT AND "CORK-SCREWED
TO THE GROUND" IN A COTTON FIELD. AFTER RECOVERY OF THE
AIRCRAFT FROM THE COTTON FIELD, THE AIRFRAME AND
ENGINE WERE EXAMINED BY AN FAA AIRWORTHINESS
INSPECTOR WHO FOUND NO DISCREPANCY IN EITHER THE
WRECKAGE OR THE MAINTENANCE RECORDS. THE ENGINE WAS
REMOVED FROM THE AIRFRAME AND SENT TO AN FAA CERTIFIED
ENGINE OVERHAUL SHOP FOR EVALUATION. THE OVERHAUL
SHOP FOUND NO MECHANICAL DISCREPANCIES WITH THE
ENGINE.
Probable Cause
a loss of engine power for undetermined reasons, and the pilot's
failure to maintain an adequate airspeed while maneuvering for a
forced landing, which resulted in an inadvertent stall/spin.
NTSB Identification: SEA95LA201 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred SEP-01-95 at GRANTS PASS, OR
Aircraft: BRISTOL RV-6, registration: N694CA
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
During the initial climb after takeoff, the aircraft experienced a
complete loss of engine power, and the pilot made an emergency
landing in a nearby field. The pilot completed a successful touchdown,
but the aircraft flipped over in high vegetation during the landing roll.
No reason for the power loss could be found. The engine was
subsequently reinstalled on an aircraft, and according to the owner,
the engine is currently in operation and has functioned without
problem.
Probable Cause
a loss of engine power for undetermined reasons.
NTSB Identification: SEA95LA224 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred SEP-23-95 at JACKSONVILLE, OR
Aircraft: MACPHEE VANS RV-6, registration: N726WM
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
The pilot-in-command and his pilot-rated passenger departed on a
pleasure flight to attend a barbecue at a private airstrip. Witnesses at
the airstrip observed the airplane approach the runway from the south
in a landing configuration with no problems noted. The airplane was
then observed to fly over the entire length of the airstrip and beyond
about 6 feet above the runway. The airplane then banked to the left
and headed towards rapidly rising, mountainous terrain. The airplane
then impacted trees. No abnormal engine noises were reported, and
no preimpact mechanical malfunctions were found. The carburetor
heat was found partially out, and the flaps were partially extended.
Takeoffs to the north are prohibited at the airstrip due to terrain and
obstructions. The density altitude was computed to be about 3,747
feet.
Probable Cause
the pilot-in-command's failure to maintain altitude and/or clearance
from surrounding terrain after a low pass. The mountainous terrain
was a factor.
NTSB Identification: FTW96FA009 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-07-95 at LONGMONT, CO
Aircraft: RUPE RV-4, registration: N61TR
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
During flight the propeller failed shedding one blade approximately
15 inches from the hub. The aircraft was observed to pitch up and
enter a flat spin to impact. The propeller installed on the aircraft was
a cut-down metal propeller, and the aircraft specifications required
that only wood propellers be used. The logs indicated a wood
propeller was installed on the aircraft and no history of the metal
propeller was found.
Probable Cause
the installation of an unapproved metal propeller which led to a
fatigue failure of a blade and loss of aircraft control.
NTSB Identification: SEA96LA004 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-07-95 at NORTH PLAINS, OR
Aircraft: VANS RV-6T, registration: N96VA
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
While on approach for landing, the pilot selected the left fuel tank
which was indicating more than 3/4 full. About 1/2 mile from the end
of the runway, the engine lost all power. The pilot made a forced
landing in a field of raspberries, and during the landing flare the
aircraft collided with steel fence posts and static wires used to
support the raspberries. The left tank was found dry. An internal
failure in the left tank fuel quantity sending unit had caused it to give a
false indication.
Probable Cause
Fuel starvation due to the failure of the left tank fuel quantity sending
unit which resulted in a false indication of fuel quantity. A factor was
the lack of suitable terrain for the forced landing.
NTSB Identification: SEA96LA005 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-08-95 at FOREST GROVE, OR
Aircraft: CHARD RV-3A, registration: N27RV
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
The pilot of the RV-3 initiated a steeply banked right turn, after
following another aircraft in a rapid climbing maneuver. During this
turn, which was described by witnesses on the ground as extremely
tight, the right wing was seen to separate from the fuselage.
Examination of the wreckage revealed that the front wing spar had
failed just outboard of its attach fitting, and the rear spar and rear
spar doubler plate experienced a overstress separation through the
attach bolt hole. The recording accelerometer found in the wreckage
was indicating .2 G's more than the 9 G ultimate load limit published
by the designer of the RV-3 aircraft plans.
Probable Cause
The pilot exceeded the design stress limit of the aircraft, followed by
the failure of the right wing main spar.
NTSB Identification: LAX96LA008
Accident occurred OCT-11-95 at ELY, NV
Aircraft: TINCKLER VANS RV-6, registration: N6880R
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
On October 11, 1995, at 1716 Pacific daylight time, an experimental
home-built Tinckler Vans RV-6 airplane, N6880R, collided with flat
terrain after take off from Yelland Field, Ely, Nevada. The aircraft
sustained substantial damage. The certificated private pilot, the sole
occupant, was not injured. The flight was originating as a personal
cross country flight to Phoenix, Arizona, when the accident occurred.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time and no flight
plan was filed. The pilot reported that after take off from runway 18
he was unable to climb. After maintaining runway heading for about 1
minute the aircraft descended into terrain 1 to 2 miles from the
airport. The propeller and landing gear were damaged on impact. The
right wing tip struck a fence post, damaging a spar. The pilot
reported that he had 38 gallons of fuel on board on departure. He also
reported winds were from the southeast at 20 knots, gusting to 40,
during take off. He did not report experiencing any mechanical
difficulties with the aircraft.
NTSB Identification: NYC96LA021 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred OCT-31-95 at MONTICELLO, NY
Aircraft: BISCHOFF VAN RV-6, registration: N9234B
Injuries: 2 Minor.
The pilot departed with 10 gallons of fuel onboard and with the
intention of refueling at a nearby airport. After he arrived at the
airport, instead of refueling, he remained in the traffic pattern and
performed touch-and-go landings. After the fifth landing, the engine
lost power while the airplane was on initial climb and struck trees
during a forced landing. No evidence of a fuel spill or fuel odor was
observed by those, who responded to the site. The airplane had been
airborne for about 50 to 55 minutes, when the power loss occurred.
Probable Cause
the pilot's improper inflight decision to continue flight without
sufficient fuel, which resulted in a loss of power due to fuel
exhaustion.
NTSB Identification: FTW96LA042 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred NOV-11-95 at MCCKINNEY, TX
Aircraft: LODGE RV-4, registration: N30RV
Injuries: 2 Serious.
The pilot reported that after leveling off at 1,800 feet MSL, and
during a left turn, the engine lost total power. During the emergency
descent the airplane stalled twice prior to impacting the ground. A
witness observed the airplane "losing altitude fast" and "leveling off
just prior to" ground impact. Postaccident examination revealed that
the right wing main fuel tank did not have usable fuel, and the fuel in
the left tank measured 1/2 inch on a measuring stick. The fuel
selector handle was found in the "right main open" position, and both
fuel quantity gauges indicated near empty.
Probable Cause
the pilot's failure to refuel the airplane which led to a loss of engine
power due to fuel exhaustion, and the pilot's failure to maintain
adequate airspeed.
NTSB Identification: FTW96LA158 For details, refer to NTSB Imaging
System
Accident occurred APR-01-96 at LONGMONT, CO
Aircraft: STAFFORD RV-4, registration: N84PS
Injuries: 2 Minor.
Upon arriving at the destination airport from a local cross country
flight, the pilot performed three touch and go landings. While on the
crosswind leg of the fourth pattern circuit, which was to culminate in
a full stop landing, the engine lost power and the pilot made an
emergency landing in a plowed field. During the landing roll, one
main landing gear collapsed and the airplane nosed over. The flight
originated with 11 gallons of fuel on board, and the duration of the
flight was 54 minutes. According to the pertinent Lycoming engine
chart, the fuel consumption at 75 percent power (2,450 rpm) is 10.5
gallons per hour. A review of the pilot's aero/medical data revealed
him to be non-current in flight proficiency and medical certification.
Probable Cause
the pilot's inadequate preflight planning and preparation in that he
failed to ensure the aircraft had sufficient fuel to complete the flight.
A factor was the soft terrain.
NTSB Identification: LAX96LA231
Accident occurred JUN-14-96 at INYOKERN, CA
Aircraft: Vans RV6, registration: N43BL
Injuries: 1 Serious, 1 Minor.
On June 14, 1996, at 1500 hours Pacific daylight time, a Vans RV6,
N43BL, experimental amateur built airplane, experienced an in-flight
loss of control while maneuvering over level terrain adjacent to the
Inyokern, California, airport. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed, and no flight plan was filed. The private pilot was seriously
injured, and the passenger received minor injuries. The purpose of
the flight and the time and point of departure have not been
determined. According to a witness, during the last 20 to 30 seconds
of the airplane's flight, it entered a left turn with a bank angle which
varied from 10 to 20 degrees. The airplane's maximum elevation over
the ground was 150 feet, and it steadily decreased during the turn.
The witness stated that as the airplane turned through 270 degrees of
arc its left bank angle increased to 80 or 90 degrees. The airplane's
descent rate increased, and it collided with the terrain while still in a
left wing low attitude. No smoke or fire was observed during the
flight.
NTSB Identification: FTW96FA279A
Accident occurred JUN-29-96 at BOULDER, CO
Aircraft: PREVATT RV-6, registration: N194JP
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 2 Uninjured.
On June 29, 1996, approximately 1500 mountain daylight time,
N194JP, a Prevatt RV-6, collided in midair with N103LM, a Burkhart
Grob G103C Twin III Acro, over Boulder Colorado. N194JP was
destroyed and N103LM sustained minor damage. The private pilot
and student pilot-passenger aboard N194JP were fatally injured. The
private pilot and passenger aboard N103LM were not injured. Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed, and neither pilot had filed a
flight plan. Both flights were being conducted under Title 14 CFR Part
91. The flight of N194JP originated at Longmont, Colorado, on June
29, 1996 approximately 1445. The flight of N103LM originated at
Boulder, CO, on June 29, 1996, approximately 1415. According to the
pilot of N103LM, his passenger was feeling ill and they decided to
land. He approached Boulder Municipal Airport from the south at
6,100 feet msl (mean sea level). He observed two airplanes pass off his
right wing traveling in the opposite direction. His front seat
passenger then reported an approaching airplane directly in front.
The pilot made a steep left bank and deployed his dive brakes.
Evidence indicates N103LM's right wing tip struck N194JP's
propeller, right main wheel, and lower cowling. N103LM continued
the left bank and landed safely on runway 8R. N194JP was seen to
make a steep right bank and fly towards the northwest. The pilot
transmitted a distress call on the UNICOM frequency. Witnesses said
the airplane then made a steep left turn, stalled, and impacted in a
lake near the runway threshold.
NTSB Identification: MIA96LA201
Accident occurred AUG-03-96 at TOA BAJA, PR
Aircraft: JOSE HERNANDEZ RV4, registration: N113JM
Injuries: 1 Serious.
On August 3, 1996, about 1040 Atlantic standard time, a privately
owned homebuilt RV-4, N113JM, crashed during an attempted
takeoff from a private grass strip near Toa Baja, Puerto Rico. Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed at the time and no flight plan was
filed for the 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight. The airplane was
substantially damaged and the pilot, the sole occupant, sustained
serious injuries. The flight was originating at the time of the accident.
During takeoff from a private grass strip, the engine experienced a
total loss of power. The airplane then crashed into an open field.
Preliminary examination of the airplane by an FAA Inspector revealed
water contamination of the fuel system.
NTSB Identification: FTW96LA348
Accident occurred AUG-16-96 at VAN HORN, TX
Aircraft: VANS RV-4, registration: XBGKP
Injuries: 1 Minor.
One August 16, 1996, at 1412 central daylight time, Vans RV-4,
Mexican registration XBGKP, was substantially damaged during a
forced landing near Van Horn, Texas. The private pilot was not
injured. The aircraft was owned and operated by a Mexican national,
under Title 14 CFR Part 91. The flight originated from Culberson
County Airport near Van Horn, Texas, at 1400. Visual meteorological
conditions prevailed for the cross country flight and a flight plan was
not filed. According to the pilot, the airplane experienced a loss of
power, and he performed a forced landing. During the landing rollout,
the left wing impacted a pole and brush, causing structural damage to
the aircraft.
NTSB Identification: CHI96FA334
Accident occurred SEP-17-96 at MUNCIE, IN
Aircraft: Thocker RV-4, registration: N952JT
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
On September 17, 1996, at 1355 eastern standard time, a Thocker
RV-4, N952JT, was destroyed on impact with the terrain, following
the in-flight separation of the right horizontal stabilizer. The accident
occurred about 10 miles northwest of Muncie, Indiana. Witnesses
stated they saw the airplane conducting aerobatic maneuvers prior to
the accident. The pilot and one passenger received fatal injuries. The
personal 14 CFR Part 91 flight was operating in visual meteorological
conditions. No flight plan was on file for the local flight. The flight
departed Muncie, Indiana, at 1345.
--------------45C31BCE6A7A--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking Ahead |
<< I've just started my fuselage and am trying to look forward to anticipate
when I'll need different components to finish the plane. I'm trying to time
acquistions so that I can keep making progress without having to wait for
kits etc, yet don't want to make large purchases too far in advance for
obvious reasons. I'm looking for any and all input, so thanks in advance.
When should I plan to get the engine? Is it needed at the same time of the
finishing kit? Before?? After? Does it make a difference?
What about radios and instruments?
>>
A lot of it depends on where you plan on buying things and what kind of lead
time you're looking at. "Just in time" part sourcing is nice when it works,
but leads to a lot of frustration and disappointment when it doesn't.
I bought my engine shortly into my finishing kit. I'd say even at the same
time wouldn't be too soon. There is a lot of work in the finishing kit but a
lot of it can't be completed (or even started) without the engine AND prop.
The rear spinner plate is the basis for the front of the cowling, so you
have to have the engine installed first.
I started installing instruments and radios in the panel (out of the
airplane) when the fuselage came out of the jig. One of the best tips I can
give you is to not permanently install the front top skin until ALL of the
engine and instrument wiring is complete, the brakes finished and bled,
battery installed, etc. This tip probably saved me 100 hours. It's a bit
tough riveting the skin with all the wires in the way, but my wife's a
trooper (and has very small hands).
Most things continue to increase in price (with the possible exception of
GPS. I just bought a Magellan Skyblazer XL for $579 from ACS even though the
new catalog lists it at $699) and most things will usually cost more
tommorrow. Especially engines.
Good luck.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< I was born and raised about 25 miles east of there and I've already
chastised Jim for even mentioning Sequim. Now, who can pronounce it
correctly?? How about Kalaloch, Puyallup, Mulilteo, Quillayute or Spokane??
We can always tell a native from a transplant but the way they mangle our
native names.
John Ammeter >>
Stop giving away all of our secrets John! Okay class, it's pronounced
"BOI-see", not "BOI-zee"...
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
<< I really hate to start the primer thread again but... I just made the
decision to switch to Sherwin Williams due to the hassle/ environmental
concerns of my previous system (PPG DP-40 after etching and alodine). I
figured from the vast numbers of builders (including Vans in the
Quickbuilds) using it that it must be great stuff. Bad choice??
>>
I think the main problem is with the QB's spending months on the ocean. I
think any primer is going to have a few problems with that.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Trip to Portland |
I'll be flying commercial (hopefully for the last time) to Portland for a
stay on
Oct 20-22 to take a few hours with Mike Seager before flying my own pride and
joy.
I would like to hook up with some other RV'ers in the area during that time
if possible.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<32565575.11C3(at)ix.netcom.com>
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)magmacom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wisdom of choosing a RV |
>John B. Abell wrote:
>>
>> What test pilot school in California? Do you have an address or phone
>> number? Have you seen a curriculum? It sounds really interesting;
>> I'd like to know more about it.
>>
>> Help, anyone?
>>
>> Jack Abell
>> RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
> The Aug. '96 issue of Sport Aviation has a short article on the
>school at pgs. 11-12. Here are the vitals:
>
> National Test Pilot School (NTPS)
> Mojave, CA
> Art Lawless
> 805.824.2977
> 805.824.2943 (fax)
> E-Mail: ntps(at)ntps.com
> Web: www.hughes-ec.com/org/ntps
>
> 4 day (long weekend) and 5 day (mid-week) courses taylored for
> homebuilts ($900 -> $1,100
>
>Hope this helps:
>
>Chas.
I work as a test pilot for Transport Canada. We have sent some of our
flight test engineers and one of our test pilots to NTPS for refresher
courses. I worked with one of the instructors there while he was still in
the USAF. They are a good organization, staffed largely by ex-USAF/USN
test pilots or flight test engineers (graduates of one of the four
recogized test pilot schools). The staff know what they are doing, they
have a large fleet of aircraft (Cessna 150, Chipmunk, etc right up to
supersonic jet fighters).
All our personnel who attended NTPS courses have come back impressed with
the quality of the training. I am not familiar with the curiculum for the
"homebuilt" courses, but have no problems recommending the school.
Kevin Horton
hopeful RV-8 builder (lurking and gather info, tools, etc)
khorton(at)magmacom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual to Electric Aileron Trim |
Van's RV8 prototype has a MAC servo mounted under the floor which controls an
arm attached to the trim tension spring. I have no idea how well it works.
Rick McBride
RV6, N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sanding Proseal |
<< How does one _sand_ proseal? After finishing the
tanks I never want to touch the substance again.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>>
Cheese cloth is the reccomended sanding material of choice.
There is even a silver colored PRC seam sealer, that is specifically
paintable.
Did you know that by overlapping the rear skin over the top of the front
skin, the drag is one third of the "normal" skin overlap?
Bad news, the joint needs to be sealed. Good news, the rear side skins fair
VERY nicely into the tail cone.
Lets see the quick builds incorporate this process mod. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
Check out the Garmin GPS Map 195. It has the best display in a true hand
held unit (38,400 pixels). It has four level gray scale and three level back
lighting. It has outputs for an autopilot and inputs from a computer. It
has cartridge expansion capability and is set up for diferential GPS when it
becomes widely available. The moving map has to be seen to be believed.
There is no need to buy cartridges for fine details of roads, rivers, lakes,
railroads, towns, cities, etc. because the basic database is so complete that
you don't need one. Of course, it has the complete Jeppeson database for
everywhere in North America. I looked long and hard at everything available
up to now and as soon as I saw the Garmin 195 at Oshkosh, I knew that this
was a unit that had it all, and I bought one. I have used it a many hours
and it is incredible to be able to select any approach for any airport and
see the approach fixes displayed on the map along with a flight director to
guide you. Every ILS that I have flown puts you right on the centerline. I
love it. It is not the cheapest unit ($1299.), but it is the best.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)al.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
Pat,
What kind of primer does your pro use to treat your parts?
>r.acker wrote:
>>
>> I think I'll resort to treating the inside of my RV with a corrosion
>> treatment such as AC-50(?) or similar, and inspect every year.
>
>This is excellent advice. I work for a cargo airline, and they have an
>FAA mandated regular inspection interval for corrosion. Aside from the
>fact that these aircraft are used so much that the panels are always off
>for maintenance and inspection, and that they were painted (including
>repaired components) by a professional painter using industry materials,
>tools, and practices, they DO develop corrosion. Primer is a defense,
>but nothing will gaurantee a corrosion free airframe. You will always
>have to inspect, inspect, inspect, for your own peace of mind.
>
>This is one of the reasons I chose a professional to do my priming. He
>is set up to etch and alodine far better than I, and has experience far
>beyond me. Even so, I will inspect my parts regularly, because I am
>sure I have damaged the primer while assembling and riveting. However,
>it is true that there are production planes out there that are unprimed
>and corrosion-free, but I bet their owners keep an eye on them just the
>same.
>
>My point for this post is to not be too concerned about your
>anti-corrosion method. No method is sure, and it is possible to use no
>method whatever and still not have problems. But the bottom line is
>that you will always need to inspect, no matter what you do.
>
>PatK - RV-6A - left aileron back from the painter; it's rivetin' time!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
Ray Murphy, Jr. wrote:
>
> What kind of primer does your pro use to treat your parts?
It's an epoxy type, but I'd have to ask him the brand name. Basically,
it's what he uses on American International Airways' Aircraft, from
Beech twins and Lears to L1011s. I'll be seeing him again shortly (flap
to be done) and I'll ask and post. However, I never got hung up on
brand, as they all seem to work and best is very subjective.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
Jim,
I agree with you on the garmin gps 195. I too bought one at Oshkosh
from Pacific Coast Avionics for $1175. It is the best unit I have used or
seen at this point.
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 SN:80126
>Check out the Garmin GPS Map 195.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | High Country Exhausts |
Hello,
Does anyone know if Larry Vetterman of High Country Exhaust has an
E-mail address and if so what is it?
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 SN:80126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | shape of rollbar and canopy fram do not match |
I've searched the archives and could not find this problem, so I thought I
would ask if anyone else on the list has experienced it and how they solved
it:
The shape of the front bow of the canopy frame does not match the shape of
the rollbar very well. At the fuselage centerline, the front bow protrudes
above the rollbar by about 1/8-inch (i can deal with that). However, at
about 11 inches outboard of centerline, the bow protrudes about 5/16-inch
above the rollbar. The amount of 'protrusion' gradually decreases from
that point until it is almost zero at the bottom ends of the canopy bow,
Here's my plan:
Use a tubing bender to alter the *shape* of the bow to match the rollbar.
This will, of course result in the front canopy bow protruding about
5/16-inch above the rollbar at the center too. Since it would be
impractical to shim the bottoms of the rollbar to raise the rollbar by
5/16-inch, I'll shim it just 1/16-inch, and trim 1/4-inch from the
ends/bottom of the bow.
Has anyone else had this problem? How did you deal with it?
Thanks in advance,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Primer on RV 8 Wing Spars |
I sure hope they don't use SW primer on the 8 spars. I'm expecting them
to be anodized. If they just have primer sprayed on bare AL I'll be
bummed and probably resort to having to disassemble,
alumaprep/alodyne/epoxy prime. That would be a major bummer.
-Mike
>----------
>From: Robert Lanier[SMTP:airmail.net!rla469(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Saturday, October 05, 1996 8:04 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Primer on RV 8 Wing Spars
>
>
>I have been reading the information on the SW primer used by Vans on the
>quickbuild kits. Since the spars for the RV 8 will arrive pre-assembled, I
>would guess they will be pre-primed. If so, is anybody out there planning
>on re-priming? Since I am not a painting expert, I was curious about the
>process. Is it necessary to remove the existing primer, or can you just go
>over it? This may be a stupid question to some, but I was always taught
>that the stupid question is the one not asked. We all have a good sized
>investment in this, I want it right the FIRST TIME!
>
>Rob Lanier
>80134
>rla469(at)airmail.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Archive CDROM to be Cross Platform... |
--------------
>
> As far as the CD-ROM goes, I have a Mac, so I won't be able to use the
> search engine you are putting together. Will the archive file be in some
> kind of universal format (text?) so that I can read it...
>
> Kevin Horton
>
--------------
Kevin and Listers,
There is some good news for Mac users in regard to the archive CDROM! I will
be using the MS cross compiler to generate a Mac version as well! While I
havn't actually tried this yet, I have been told by a couple of people that
it works well. The list price on the cross complier is $1999 (ack!), but they
talk about an upgrade from any other MS compiler for $199. I'm banking on
the fact that I can get the $199 price!
The basic development on the search engine utility has been progressing well.
The actual search engine code is complete and can do and ANDd search of the
complete archive in significantly less than 1 second! To get this kind of
speed I've heavily indexed the complete archive. There are currently about
17,000 words in the indexes. These indexes will be included on the CDROM and
are used by the search engine to obtain the awesome search times. If the
search word(s) are not found in the indexes (which is not likely), the
brute force search is also highly optimized and generally takes only between 12
and 25 seconds (on a very fast pc). The index files are in a binary
format for maximum speed, but I will probably make the format spec available
for those wishing to play around with it. The complete index is about 5Mb,
and takes about 36 hours to build on my 166Mhz Pentium system! This index
is then split into much smaller pieces to speed the search further. The
index generating program basically searchs the archive for every word in the
archive (excluding common words like 'it, and, the, etc') and stores the
location each message the given word occurs in. This index will come
prebuilt on the CDROM for the version of the archive on the CDROM. The
search times using the index are just phenomenal, far exceeding my
expectations. I'm working on the Graphic Interface now although I don't
have a timeframe for completion yet.
As far as formats, the archive will come in 3 main formats on the CDROM. These
formats include the plain raw text, a beautifully converted HTML format, and a
similar Rich Text Format (RTF) version. The CDROM HTML formats are much nicer
than the current one available on the RV-List web page. The converted versions
(HTML and RTF) available on the CDROM are a lot easier to read and scan for
information as the Name, Date, Subject, and search match fields are all
font and color coded. I may update the web page with the newer HTML format
sometime down the road, but for now I will save it as a carrot for the
CDROM. :-) The new HTML and RTF formats add about 30% to size of the raw
archive but in my opinion make reading the archive vastly easier.
The CDROM will include both the RV-List and Zenith-List archive data and
indexes. Also included on the CDROM will be all the scans and videos and
other information found on the Matronics web page, the latest version of Frank
Justice's RV construction manual, and some other goodies. If you are aware
of other data that would be nice to include on the CDROM, please email me
(dralle(at)matronics.com) with information and a source for the data.
If you think you might be interested in the CDROM when it is ready, please
send an email message to:
info(at)matronics.com
and put the following words in the SUBJECT field:
"CDROM - Windows" (Windows 3.1 and 3.11 (with win32), 95 or NT)
or
"CDROM - Mac" (Mac)
or
"CDROM - Both" (Both Windows and Mac)
or
"CDROM - Other" (Neither Windows or Mac. Please indicate
plateform in body of message.)
This action is *not* to purchase the CDROM at this time, but only to give me
an idea of the interest level.
Thanks,
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | All New Scans & Videos... |
Thanks to video and still photo skills of the RV-List's own Eric Barnes
(BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM), I've added a whole bunch of new, high quality scans
to the RV-List web page as well as 4 new AVI/MOV videos of Jim Ayers' LOM
powered RV-3. There's even a close-up of a working Matronics FuelScan LT in
Dan Parker's RV-6 panel! Check it all out at: http://www.matronics.com!
Thanks Eric!!!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | New RV Web Link Section... |
Listers,
I'm going to add a new page to the current RV-List section on the Matronics
Web page. This section will be dedicated to other RV related home pages on
the web. There are more and more good RV pages on the web now, and it seems
like its past time for a canonical list of them! But to make the list
truly "canonical" I will need your help. Here's how I would like to work
it. If you know of an RV related web page (or even a page that would be
of interest to RV builders) send an email message to:
support(at)matronics.com
In the SUBJECT of the message, put the words:
"WEB SITE ADDITION"
In the BODY of the message, put the URL of the site, for example:
"http://www.rvstuff.com"
Don't worry about sending duplicates, and don't assume that I already
know about any particular site (the *only* exception is Hovan's page).
In a few weeks, I'll put up the new canonical page and let everyone
know.
PLEASE - don't post these messages to the List!! No need to fill up the
Archive with this data! I will probably post a summary of all the sites
to the List when I put up the page. That way there will be one copy of
all the sites in the Archive! :-)
Thanks for your help!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Moving instrument panel |
> am about to start my fuselage. I have dreams of moving the instrument
>panel forward 1 inch (then maybe I wouldn't need new glasses). The
>implications of this appear to affect the forward canopy skirt and the
>forward fuselage top skin. The response from Van's is that this modifcation
>is possible. Does the forward canopy skirt have sufficient material to
>allow for a 1" forward modification? I assume this is a formed piece. Is
>that true? Would it be possible to fabricate such a piece from stock
>material? Any other implications I am overlooking?
>
>As always, your assistance is appreciated.
>
>Doug
Doug:
I'd say do it. Get another "boot cowl"- I can't recall the part # - the
formed pc that covers tha back of the panel area, and use it to form the
front section of your canopy.
Another mod I'd suggest to you, and others building the -4, is to "box" the
#4 bulkhead with a pc of 040, as is done on the -6 with 063, and butt the two
fwd side skins at that bulkhead. You would have to run two rows of rivets
inside the channel ( for a total of four rows instead of three), but that's
easy. This eliminates the overlap joint at that bulkhead, and HAS to smooth
the airflow. I got this idea just AFTER I'd finished drilling MY fuse, and
called Van's on the spot. They OK'd it, so I used the idea on the next fuse I
built. Looks good.
But then, my -4 is so highly modified that it's actually called something
else...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: shape of rollbar and canopy fram do not match |
The answer to all questions about the slider roll bar and canopy frame is
YES. Just finished mine, and the best advice I got was from Vans. They said
just keep playing with it until you get what you are satisified with.
This is an extremely frustrating area. Takes a lot of time, but just keep
working on everything. I raised my roll bar 1/4 " to make the "Raised"
canopy. I cut loose and rewelded the horizontal bar on the frame at the
forward end to get the 3/16 offset that is shown on the plans, but didn't
exist on the actual frame. I must have rebent the sliding frame forward bow
fifty times, including one time with a torch.
I also raised the bow about 1/8" at the rollers. Made some wood washers that
I could sand to get the length right to support the bow when fitting the
glass.
In the end, everything fit to my standards, which were adjusted somewhat from
the start. It seemed that the slider bow took a diferent shape every time I
took it off and on.
Bruce Patton
Installing motor mount
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RButc69912(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: All New Scans & Videos... |
Howdy...One of the new pictures shows a Canadian registered bird that is
retractable(?)
Could it be......A retractable RV??????
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rollbar and canopy frame profile do not match |
<< The shape of the front bow of the canopy frame does not match the shape of
the rollbar very well. >>
Dave-
Everyone I've spoken too has had to deal with this, some not so well. One
guy sent his frame back and they swapped it with one that was off on the
opposite side and still didn't match. Keep in mind that due to the complex
geometry the frame needs to be different heights above the rollbar at
different points. The center needs to be higher because all of the curvature
is in a straight line vector with the fuselage. The offset distance
decreases as to proceed farther from center out to the edges which are nearly
flush.
I took a torch and got my rollbar to be as symetrical (sp) as I could by
cutting a template that matched the better of the two sides (resting normal
to the canopy deck) and comparing as I bent in successive approximations.
Further, I fluted the bottom mounting flanges to toe them in a little
(because of the VEHCCM the bar moves 1.5" FWD). Finally, I wrestled the
canopy frame into submission and thrashed it within an inch of its life,
stomping and twisting until, viola, it matched. Not too shabby, I remember
thinking at the time. Besides, lacking any canopy building intructions from
Vans to read, what else was I going to do with my time?
I think it also helped that I was holding my mouth right and spouting the
correct expletives at their natural occurring times. It is known as the
canopy builder's mantra.
I was also incorporating the vertically enhanced humanoid cranial clearance
modification (VEHCCM) so I had the local TIG welder give me some additional
height on the tubing portion of the roller support brackets. The canopy
frame tubing ends sit about 5/16" above the flange of the roller support
brackets on each side.
I'm satisfied that I cannot, in this lifetime, improve upon it.
Hope this helps,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
<< But what would Really be the Bee's Knees is if the controls and receiver
were separate from the display. My reasoning is as display technology
improves just buy a new display. Also if a 3x3 greyscale is more to your
liking than a 3x4 color display then just mix and match. ALSO, the
separate units should be easier to position and cable in the cockpit >>
Hearty amen to that! A quick scan of an amateur radio catalog will tell the
would-be-successful avionics mfgr what trend is driving the consumer
electronics industry among the experimentally-inclined crowd, and it's:
miniaturization, microprocessor control flexibility and detachable front
panel displays, for all the reasons cited above. Why are even the innovative
avionics companies content to stay ten years behind Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom,
etc?? Let King and Narco have that dubious honor- get out and seize the day!
The GPSMAP 195 looks like a step in the right direction- with that model
(and similar) we airplane guys can have almost as much electronic glitz as
the bass boat jockeys did in, say, 1990...
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
John,
I have found the 2000 model to be more than adequate. At $199.00 plus my
trusty Flight Guide at about $28.00 a year, I have all the info I need.
Maybe it isn't as fast or as handy but at Luscombe speeds I have plenty of
time to kill. Maybe at RV speeds I'll have a different opinion.
Steve Hamer
RV-6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding Proseal |
You wrote:
>Did you know that by overlapping the rear skin over the top of the
front
>skin, the drag is one third of the "normal" skin overlap?
Jim, Please explain. I would have thought it' the opposite.
(Of course your advice comes just after I've fitted and am riviting the
tail cone.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: shape of rollbar and canopy fram do not match |
<< The shape of the front bow of the canopy frame does not match the shape of
the rollbar very well. At the fuselage centerline, the front bow protrudes
above the rollbar by about 1/8-inch (i can deal with that). However, at
about 11 inches outboard of centerline, the bow protrudes about 5/16-inch
above the rollbar. The amount of 'protrusion' gradually decreases from
that point until it is almost zero at the bottom ends of the canopy bow, >>
Hmm. 5/16 seems like an awful lot. My canopy frame matched my roll bar
almost perfectly, so it seems like something went wrong during manufacture.
Does the rear bow seem to line up properly with the canopy? Do the sides
run along the longerons okay?
My problems began when I had a heck of a time finding a place on the canopy
that wanted to "fit" the roll bar and canopy frame.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Poor man's torque "wrench" |
Here's an idea on how to makeshift a simple torque wrench to tighten
those AN3 and AN4 nuts/bolts when you don't want to buy one or don't
want to order and wait for it to arrive.
>From earlier postings on the list you know that the AN3 should be
torqued to 20 - 25 inch-pounds and AN4 to 50 - 70 pound inches.
To get an idea of how much force this really is, and maybe even make a
makeshift set-up to tighten some nuts/bolts, I bought a couple of
springs at Home Depot ($1.99) (part No SP-9622, 5/8x6.5x0.054).
I then filled one of those 1.89 litre juice containers (a 2 litre coke
bottle would do just as well) with water, put it in a plastic bag and
hung it from one of the springs and measured the length of the spring.
1 litre of water = 1 Kg = 2.2 pounds.
2 litres = 4.4 pounds.
1.9 litres = 4.2 pounds.
Then I took a simple racket wrench and measured (25 / 4.2 = ) 6" from
the center of the nut out on the handle, attached one end of the spring
to that point on the handle and pulled on the other end of the sping
perpendicular to the handle, untill the length of the sping expanded to
what I measured when I hung the weight(water) from it.
This is by no means accurate beyond maybe +-10%, but I think it's
better than just tightening it till it "feels" right and then "just a
bit more to be sure". By being more accurate with weights, length
measurements, etc., there is no reason why this makeshift torque
measurement couldn't be accurate.
For the AN4 nut/bolt, I added the other spring with the assumption that
it was identical to the first: 70 / 8.4 = 8.3" arm (from nut to sping
attach point on the handle).
Finn (awaiting ridicule and mocking).
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: shape of rollbar and canopy fram do not match |
Dave and others fitting their canopy frames,
The October issue of my newsletter has a very long article and some pictures
that will be helpful to you. Don't bend that tube just yet. Wait and see if
you like my way better.
Jim
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rollbar and canopy frame; Skin drag reduction |
Canopy:
My early sliding canopy required a few shims. The largest of which is 1/4".
Since this was an early canopy, Van's explaination was that they did not
have the tooling to make both curves out of different size material exactly
the same. There are a few shims in my installation to make the "glass" fit
to my level of quality. I also used the optional thicker windscreen that I
believe is no longer available. Before I drilled the canopy rollers to the
frame, I used spark plug gaskets as shims to get the elevation correct. This
will then require less shims between the "glass" and the canopy frame. Good
Luck and keep trying.
Drag reduction:
In a previous post a question was asked of Jim Ayers as to why there is less
drag when the front skin is installed before the aft skins on the fuselage.
(forward skin below the aft skin.) This is explained very well in Hoerner's
book on drag. As I under stand a copy is still available.
-----INSERT-----
>Juerg Mueller I bought mine last year from:
>
>Hoerner Fluid Dynamics
>POB 65283
Vancouver, WA 98665
>
>Cost was something like:
>Fluid Dynamic Drag $75
> Lift $74
> Postage $ 6
> ---------
> $155
-----End Insert-----
I have personally know Jim for about 7 or 8 years. His RV-3 is scratch built
and has many of Hoerner's drag reduction techniques employed. When he had an
old, tired,
O-290 installed, he could preform almost as well as an O-320 160HP RV-3
that one of his friends flew. Only rate of clime was less that the 160
powered -3. Jim is a very knowlegable Engineer that I have a LOT of respect
for.
Gary A. Sobek
GASobek(at)aol.com
RV-6 20480 N-157GS
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
EAA Technical Counselor
Aerospace Electical Engineer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: High Country Exhausts |
Larry can be reach at 303-932-0561 evenings or write to
Larry vetterman
7216 So. Pierce Ct.
Littleton, Co
80123
but he does not have email that I know of ...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
Looking for sources for Marhyde Primer. What are you paying and how about
Hazmat shipping?
Bob Dieck
RV6a Fuse.
Wausau, Wi USA
Robert/Tammie Dieck
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Poor man's torque "wrench" |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB43B.4599D440
Finn my friend, you have too much time on your hands. May you never run out of
toilet paper.
Here's an idea on how to makeshift a simple torque wrench to tighten
Finn (awaiting ridicule and mocking).
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB43B.4599D440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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBB43B.4599D440--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marhyde Primer |
I get the Marhyde at a local auto body and paint supplier for about
$11 a can - no shipping. Dick Steffens resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Marhyde Primer
Date: 10/7/96 9:29 AM
Looking for sources for Marhyde Primer. What are you paying and how about
Hazmat shipping?
Bob Dieck
RV6a Fuse.
Wausau, Wi USA
Robert/Tammie Dieck
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
Doug, the Garmin has a connection for the utopilot, I have it hooked up, but
haven't flown yet.
John
>>aol.com!JAllen6526(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>>> In our product line the low end receiver is the Skyblazer Lt. Our
>>> competitors offer similar products. Of course, you ought to buy our's so I
>>> can afford to buy that finish kit.
>>
>
>Howdy,
>
>I would buy a hand held but I haven't spotted one that has outputs for a
>CDI or Autopilot. Also being able to accept and use data such as from
>Matronics fuel flow computer would be nice.
>
>But what would Really be the Bee's Knees is if the controls and receiver
>were separate from the display. My reasoning is as display technology
>improves just buy a new display. Also if a 3x3 greyscale is more to your
>liking than a 3x4 color display then just mix and match. ALSO, the
>separate units should be easier to position and cable in the cockpit, as I
>as a passenger which does do some navigating from the right seat and
>controls in the middle would help. Which leads to a possibility of dual
>displays with a single receiver, wow!
>
>Doug, sign me up to be a beta tester today!
>
>
>
>
>Doug Bloomberg
>Denver, CO
>
>
>dougb(at)mail.diac.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | All New Scans & Videos... |
I saw it at arlington (an RV4). Yes, it had a total retract setup.
Pretty cool.
>----------
>From:
> aol.com!RButc69912(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!RButc69912(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Sunday, October 06, 1996 4:33 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: All New Scans & Videos...
>
>Howdy...One of the new pictures shows a Canadian registered bird that is
>retractable(?)
>Could it be......A retractable RV??????
>Ron Butcher
>Turlock, Calif...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
getting ready to order RV-6A...i am an old fat Navy and Airline
Pilot...looking forward to email...john lucas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder riveting questions... |
I came up with several issues while closing my rudder this weekend:
1. The R-410 brace attaches to the R-605 control horn with four 1/8"
rivets. Problem is (as I'm sure most of you have found) there is
no room at the base of the rudder to get a squeezer or bucking bar
in there to set them. I used various hunks of scrap steel to do
such, and ended up with four pathetic rivets that need replacing.
Should I consider replacing them with CS4-4's, Cherrymax rivets, or
just use nuts and bolts?
2. The plans say to use CS4-4 pop rivets to rivet through the rudder
skin and bottom rib and into the R-410 brace. Unfortunately, I
realized this after I had dimpled the skin, rib and brace for 3/32"
rivets, and the CS4-4 is an 1/8" rivet, requiring a larger hole,
and presumably a #4 dimple.
Are the MK-319BS pop rivets (recommended for the aft trailing edge
rivets) an acceptable alternative here?
-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
RV-6A #24751
Rudder...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Primer on RV 8 Wing Spars |
> I sure hope they don't use SW primer on the 8 spars. I'm expecting them
> to be anodized. If they just have primer sprayed on bare AL I'll be
> bummed and probably resort to having to disassemble,
> alumaprep/alodyne/epoxy prime. That would be a major bummer.
The primered wing spars people are talking about are for the RV-6
-->Quickbuild<-- kit. I doubt the -8 kit-build spars will be primered
or anodyzed. It's true that they will be nearly pre-done when you get
them, but that's not because they are pre-building them, it's because
the design of the spar -- largely one big machined piece that replaces
the webs and spar strips of the -3, 4, and -6 -- is such that it's
much simpler to build.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
Hi All,
I just wanted to clarify what my understanding is, after talking to
various people at Van's. The RV-8 spars *will* be pre-built and will be
anodized (per Bill Benedict). With the reduced number of pieced (4 vs.
30+), the extra cost of having them pre-built was low enough that Van's
decided to make it standard.
The delay in getting the spars shipped is, in fact, due to the changes
Randall refers to. Phlogisten is having problems setting up the new
mill that makes the "...one big machined piece that replaces the webs
and spar strips of the -3, 4, and -6."
If someone has a different understanding from speaking to Van's, please
pass it along. I'm counting on a prebuilt, anodized spar!
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 10-07-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (randall(at)edt.com)
> I sure hope they don't use SW primer on the 8 spars. I'm expecting them
> to be anodized. If they just have primer sprayed on bare AL I'll be
> bummed and probably resort to having to disassemble,
> alumaprep/alodyne/epoxy prime. That would be a major bummer.
The primered wing spars people are talking about are for the RV-6
-->Quickbuild<-- kit. I doubt the -8 kit-build spars will be primered
or anodyzed. It's true that they will be nearly pre-done when you get
them, but that's not because they are pre-building them, it's because
the design of the spar -- largely one big machined piece that replaces
the webs and spar strips of the -3, 4, and -6 -- is such that it's
much simpler to build.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | RV-8 Jig: Change to original plan? |
I was at the Tracy, CA fly-in this Saturday (turning into a decent
fly-in, by the way. Probably twice as many planes as last year), and
Van's was there with the RV-8. In speaking with the Van's rep. (not
Bill, Tom, Andy or Ken, but I don't know his name), I was told that the
dimensions for the empanage jig were incorrect on the "first sets of
plans". The correct dimensions for the cross piece are 111"-115"
between uprights (and NOT 109").
Has anyone else been told this? I didn't check my plans (haven't built
the jig yet). Will this cause a problem with the empanage, or later on
with the wings (isn't the emp. jig converted to make the wing jig?) ?
I'd like to hear comments on this as my jig is going up over the next
two weeks (I have a pending lawsuit from Mitch Faatz, representing my
tailkit. They're claiming GROSS NEGLECT...).
TIA,
EB #80131
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Archive CDROM to be Cross Platform... |
Actually, Macs are capable of accessing just about any standard form of CD-
ROM. Including ISO-9660, High Sierra, and Kodak Photo CD. The only worry
would be the search engine.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Archive CDROM to be Cross Platform... |
>--------------
>Actually, Macs are capable of accessing just about any standard form of CD-
>ROM. Including ISO-9660, High Sierra, and Kodak Photo CD. The only worry
>would be the search engine.
>--------------
The Search Engine is what I was referring to in terms of "cross-platform".
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder riveting questions... |
cut the lightening hole in the rudder reinforcement bracket and all the
rivets become squeezable with the 3" or longeron yoke. no pops, no
strange bucks, nothing but beautiful AN rivets.
-Mike
>----------
>From: Brian Yablon[SMTP:lanart.com!brian(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Monday, October 07, 1996 10:00 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Rudder riveting questions...
>
>
>I came up with several issues while closing my rudder this weekend:
>
>1. The R-410 brace attaches to the R-605 control horn with four 1/8"
> rivets. Problem is (as I'm sure most of you have found) there is
> no room at the base of the rudder to get a squeezer or bucking bar
> in there to set them. I used various hunks of scrap steel to do
> such, and ended up with four pathetic rivets that need replacing.
>
> Should I consider replacing them with CS4-4's, Cherrymax rivets, or
> just use nuts and bolts?
>
>2. The plans say to use CS4-4 pop rivets to rivet through the rudder
> skin and bottom rib and into the R-410 brace. Unfortunately, I
> realized this after I had dimpled the skin, rib and brace for 3/32"
> rivets, and the CS4-4 is an 1/8" rivet, requiring a larger hole,
> and presumably a #4 dimple.
>
> Are the MK-319BS pop rivets (recommended for the aft trailing edge
> rivets) an acceptable alternative here?
>
>-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
> RV-6A #24751
> Rudder...
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Rollbar and canopy frame profile do not match |
Gary,
Would you like to enlarge a little on the "used a torch" comment. How hot do
you make the tubing, over what distance, do you need to quench it
afterwards, how did you handle the hot tubing etc?
Thanks,
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>
><< The shape of the front bow of the canopy frame does not match the shape of
> the rollbar very well. >>
>
>Dave-
>
>Everyone I've spoken too has had to deal with this, some not so well. One
>guy sent his frame back and they swapped it with one that was off on the
>opposite side and still didn't match. Keep in mind that due to the complex
>geometry the frame needs to be different heights above the rollbar at
>different points. The center needs to be higher because all of the curvature
>is in a straight line vector with the fuselage. The offset distance
>decreases as to proceed farther from center out to the edges which are nearly
>flush.
>
>I took a torch and got my rollbar to be as symetrical (sp) as I could by
>cutting a template that matched the better of the two sides (resting normal
>to the canopy deck) and comparing as I bent in successive approximations.
> Further, I fluted the bottom mounting flanges to toe them in a little
>(because of the VEHCCM the bar moves 1.5" FWD). Finally, I wrestled the
>canopy frame into submission and thrashed it within an inch of its life,
>stomping and twisting until, viola, it matched. Not too shabby, I remember
>thinking at the time. Besides, lacking any canopy building intructions from
>Vans to read, what else was I going to do with my time?
>
>I think it also helped that I was holding my mouth right and spouting the
>correct expletives at their natural occurring times. It is known as the
>canopy builder's mantra.
>
>I was also incorporating the vertically enhanced humanoid cranial clearance
>modification (VEHCCM) so I had the local TIG welder give me some additional
>height on the tubing portion of the roller support brackets. The canopy
>frame tubing ends sit about 5/16" above the flange of the roller support
>brackets on each side.
>
>I'm satisfied that I cannot, in this lifetime, improve upon it.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Gary VanRemortel
>vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Rudder riveting questions... |
Brian,
I don't what you are talking about!! Nobody has ever had any trouble with
the rudder!!!
Except you and me.
OK, the 4 rivets at the bottom of that brace are EASY! Here's how.
Go to Home Depot and buy yourself a piece of steel bar stock 3/4" square
X 1ft long. It will cost you about $3. Now slide that square right
through the opening under that brace and hold it with both hands while
a partner uses the gun. I taught my neighbor to rivet in 10 minutes
and we set 4 perfect rivets on the 1st try!
The CS4-4's will sit nicely in your existing dimple. You will, of course,
have to drill the hole to 1/8". Also, if you notice, the bottom rib is
not really parallel to that brace, so if you insert the pop rivets and
squeeze them, you're going to have to bend the bottom rib or the brace a
bit. I don't like to stress parts when I assemble them so I put some shims
to fill the gap( don't tell anybody about this, they will think I'm anal).
The pop rivets don't look that bad and the skin is pretty smooth down there
so don't sweat it too much. Good luck and keep the faith....
John Walsh(at)ranger.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV 8 Wing Spars |
I said:
> The primered wing spars people are talking about are for the RV-6
> -->Quickbuild<-- kit. I doubt the -8 kit-build spars will be primered
> or anodyzed.
And Eric Barnes said:
> The RV-8 spars *will* be pre-built and will be
> anodized (per Bill Benedict).
OOPS -- oh well, I guess that show's how much _I_ know.
Jeez, you new build--- no, I promised I wouldn't do that any
more. :-)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Welcome Aboard John,
Don't forget to order the tailhook option. I'm putting bangseats in mine so
some of you Pensicola types will feel more comfortable when you fly with me.
Semper Fi
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Reply Seperator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
getting ready to order RV-6A...i am an old fat Navy and Airline
Pilot...looking forward to email...john lucas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ft/lbs or In/lbs?? |
I was just wondering, is there a conversion from In/lbs to ft/lbs?
I have a torque wrench that reads ft/lbs. and most I have seen are ft/lbs.
Thanks in advance.
Shelby in Nashville.
By the way there were about 31 RVs in Lebanon this past weekend- some
beautifully build planes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: RV 8 Wing Spars |
I read in an article some time ago, that the wing spars for the 8 will be
"corrosion proofed" and pre-assembled. I have always assumed that this
meant that they will be anodized, since Phlogisten is assembling the spars
and we are not being given the anodizing as an option.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
>Hi All,
>
>I just wanted to clarify what my understanding is, after talking to
>various people at Van's. The RV-8 spars *will* be pre-built and will be
>anodized (per Bill Benedict). With the reduced number of pieced (4 vs.
>30+), the extra cost of having them pre-built was low enough that Van's
>decided to make it standard.
>
>The delay in getting the spars shipped is, in fact, due to the changes
>Randall refers to. Phlogisten is having problems setting up the new
>mill that makes the "...one big machined piece that replaces the webs
>and spar strips of the -3, 4, and -6."
>
>If someone has a different understanding from speaking to Van's, please
>pass it along. I'm counting on a prebuilt, anodized spar!
>
>EB
>barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
>
>------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
>SENT 10-07-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (randall(at)edt.com)
>
>> I sure hope they don't use SW primer on the 8 spars. I'm expecting them
>> to be anodized. If they just have primer sprayed on bare AL I'll be
>> bummed and probably resort to having to disassemble,
>> alumaprep/alodyne/epoxy prime. That would be a major bummer.
>
>The primered wing spars people are talking about are for the RV-6
>-->Quickbuild<-- kit. I doubt the -8 kit-build spars will be primered
>or anodyzed. It's true that they will be nearly pre-done when you get
>them, but that's not because they are pre-building them, it's because
>the design of the spar -- largely one big machined piece that replaces
>the webs and spar strips of the -3, 4, and -6 -- is such that it's
>much simpler to build.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild corrosion |
You wrote:
>
>I think the main problem is with the QB's spending months on the
ocean. I think any primer is going to have a few problems with that.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
Ed,
If it was painted correctly with PPG DP-40, you could have sent it
overseas strapped to the deck of a submarine and it would not have had
any corrosion on it.
Curtis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Jig: Change to original plan? |
Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I was at the Tracy, CA fly-in this Saturday (turning into a decent
> fly-in, by the way. Probably twice as many planes as last year), and
> Van's was there with the RV-8. In speaking with the Van's rep. (not
> Bill, Tom, Andy or Ken, but I don't know his name), I was told that the
> dimensions for the empanage jig were incorrect on the "first sets of
> plans". The correct dimensions for the cross piece are 111"-115"
> between uprights (and NOT 109").
>
> Has anyone else been told this? I didn't check my plans (haven't built
> the jig yet). Will this cause a problem with the empanage, or later on
> with the wings (isn't the emp. jig converted to make the wing jig?) ?
>
> I'd like to hear comments on this as my jig is going up over the next
> two weeks (I have a pending lawsuit from Mitch Faatz, representing my
> tailkit. They're claiming GROSS NEGLECT...).
>
> TIA,
>
> EB #80131
> barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
Hope your kidding on the lawsuit.. The dimensions of the jig are not
important. The tail kit just uses the surface for somplace straight to
hang out. The wing kit uses the two uprights but not the cross piece.
The wig spar hangs on two angle brackets. As long as all are straight
and plumb you are OK.
You will find a few errors like this along the way and most dont make
any difference at all.
Rick
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Jig: Change to original plan? |
On 7 Oct 1996 Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I was at the Tracy, CA fly-in this Saturday (turning into a decent
> fly-in, by the way. Probably twice as many planes as last year), and
> Van's was there with the RV-8. In speaking with the Van's rep. (not
> Bill, Tom, Andy or Ken, but I don't know his name), I was told that the
> dimensions for the empanage jig were incorrect on the "first sets of
> plans". The correct dimensions for the cross piece are 111"-115"
> between uprights (and NOT 109").
>
> Has anyone else been told this? I didn't check my plans (haven't built
> the jig yet). Will this cause a problem with the empanage, or later on
> with the wings (isn't the emp. jig converted to make the wing jig?) ?
>
Built mine to 109", had no trouble building the emp. on it (only place
really needed was HS skeleton). Don't know about the wings tho, haven't
even got plans yet. (gonna finish up left elev. before ordering, hope
shipping time corresponds with trim tab, if not, just got my fiberglass
today, could put that on.)
> I'd like to hear comments on this as my jig is going up over the next
> two weeks (I have a pending lawsuit from Mitch Faatz, representing my
> tailkit. They're claiming GROSS NEGLECT...).
>
Thats taking it a bit far, don't ya think? I expected this sort of thing
with a brand new kit.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 Riviting left elev skin stiffners
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All New Scans & Videos... |
Yep, it's retractable. I saw it at Van's Fly-in last month.
----------------------------------------------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Howdy...One of the new pictures shows a Canadian registered
bird that is
retractable(?)
Could it be......A retractable RV??????
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif...
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 10/07/96
Time: 07:07:28
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Empenage kit for sale |
To one and all:
I have a friend who, after purchasing an RV-6 empenage kit, and having
had many moons of contemplative thoughts, decided that metal projects
were not for him. He is basically a wood lover, and couldn't get himself
enthused over working with metal. He would like to part with this dream
kit (+ plans) for some negotiable part of what it cost him. I think he
has done some smoothing of parts but probably no drilling or riveting. He
is a meticulous, honest craftsman (I know because he is my dentist), and
would represent what he has with care.
If anyone is interested in purchasing this kit from him, or, knows of
someone who would, please call him at his home in the evening.
Gary Rene
(612) 920-1149 (Minnesota)
Thanks for your patience in reading this message.
Fred Hiatt, RV-6A, hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Ft/lbs or In/lbs?? |
>I was just wondering, is there a conversion from In/lbs to ft/lbs?
Multiply by 12.
>I have a torque wrench that reads ft/lbs. and most I have seen are ft/lbs.
However, your ft-lb torque wrench may not be sufficiently accurate.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer on RV 8 Wing Spars |
> I sure hope they don't use SW primer on the 8 spars. I'm expecting them
> to be anodized. If they just have primer sprayed on bare AL I'll be
> bummed and probably resort to having to disassemble,
> alumaprep/alodyne/epoxy prime. That would be a major bummer.
Why would it be a major bummer to have primer sprayed on bare Aluminun?
I am really getting tired of this primer thing this has been talked
about over and over again, I don't care what kind or who's primer you
use you still need to inspect, these airplanes will last longer than
most of us will with reasonable care and inspections there is no
primer that will last forever with out some kind of maintence although
the inside of my RV-6 that I primed with Variprime 8 years ago looks
just like it did the day I primed it. I also know some builders that
have used SW Primer with just as good of results as any other primer.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ft/lbs or In/lbs?? |
> From: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
> I was just wondering, is there a conversion from In/lbs to ft/lbs?
A ft-lb of torque is one pound at the end of a one-foot lever; an
in-lb is one pound at the end of a 1" lever. Therefore, there are 12
in-lbs. in one ft-lb.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com
Finger brownd(at)holmes.uchastings.edu for public key & Geek code
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Jig: Change to original plan? |
Alrighty then, time to clear this little joke up. When Eric referred to
a "pending lawsuit" from me,
it was about a teasing email I sent Eric. In the email, I was
pretending to be a lawyer (retained BY his tailkit) because his TAILKIT
was charging ERIC with gross neglect. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh. Well, it was
funny at the time.
Nothing to do with the RV-8 tailkit itself, delivery times, errors in
plans, etc.
Oh yeah - one more thing - I'm not a lawyer.
Not that there is anything *wrong* with being a lawyer...
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
HS, VS, Rudder, and right Elevator completed, working on left Elevator
and trim tab.
>----------
>From: Brian Huffaker[SMTP:utw.com!huffaker(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 1996 12:11 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Jig: Change to original plan?
>
>>On 7 Oct 1996 Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>> I'd like to hear comments on this as my jig is going up over the next
>>> two weeks (I have a pending lawsuit from Mitch Faatz, representing my
>>> tailkit. They're claiming GROSS NEGLECT...).
>>>
>> Thats taking it a bit far, don't ya think? I expected this sort of thing
>>with a brand new kit.
>
>> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
>> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
>> AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
>> RV-8 80091 Riviting left elev skin stiffners
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ft/lbs or In/lbs?? |
<< I was just wondering, is there a conversion from In/lbs to ft/lbs?
>>
There are 12 inch pounds in 1 foot pound.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Lycoming Service Bulletin |
I just received Lycoming Mandatory Service Bulletin 527A dated 10/1/96.
It is a recall of pistin pin part # LW-14077 (used in 320's and 360's)
marked with the code 17328 (found on the end of the piston pin), shipped
between 12/15/95 and 9/17/96.
This is going to make a lot of people unhappy.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
September 30, 1996 - October 07, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-by