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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
From: 
Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      That would be nice to remove the heat soak in the
      cockpit, and then get you up to altitude where the air
      is cooler.  Half of my past flying has been done in
      temperatures in excess of 100, then it's take the
      doors off and if your still soaked with sweat just fly
      a little out of trim to encourage a breeze through the
      cockpit till you get to altitude.
      
      Terry
      
      --- "T. Graziano"  wrote:
      
      > 
      > It has been really HOT here in NW Tennessee for the
      > past few weeks (high 90ies low 100s) and will also
      > be hot next week.  When I flew a few days ago I came
      > back soaked in sweat, a lot more than usual.  Today
      > I had promised a flight to father of a friend of
      > mine for his 93rd birthday.
      >  
      > Last night at Wal-Mart, I saw a portable  "Cool Box"
      > Personal Air Conditioner for $49.  It was similar in
      > concept to the ones being sold for about $500 in
      > that you put in ice and it has a fan blowing air
      > over the ice. It is not as big as the expensive
      > ones. It also has a "mist" setting (which would
      > probably be great in desert dry hot air).  It can be
      > run from 8 D cells, plugged into house current using
      > an adaptor, or better yet, it comes with a power
      > plug-in for 12 V.  It has two fan settings.  
      > 
      > Because of the age of my passenger and the relative
      > low cost, I bought one to see how it would perform
      > in my XL.
      > 
      > I easily fits behind the seats in the cargo
      > compartment (I bungeed it in) and it did work to
      > lower the temps to a more comfortable range for me
      > and my passenger - for about an hour (OAT was 95F).
      > (Box says it will lower temps 30F)  You could tell
      > when all the ice had melted from the temp/sweat
      > increase inside the XL. There was no apparent RFI
      > from the fan.
      > 
      > The box the unit came in has a net address of
      > WWW.o2-cool.com, .
      > 
      > Down side (besides only being good for about an
      > hour) is that there was a lot of condensate/water on
      > the outside of the unit which did "moisturize" my
      > cargo carpet.  I will glue on some insulation to the
      > outside of the unit.
      > 
      > For those still building,  I had Installed a power
      > plug behind the seat backs and also one up front
      > near the consol. (Usually have the one behind the
      > seat backs reserved for my portable Nav/Com.)  I
      > also installed structural pick-ups for bungees etc
      > in my cargo compartment.
      > 
      > Tony Graziano
      > 601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 271 hours
      
      
      Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
      Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
From: 
Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: 
parts
      
      
      Bill, It is: planecrazydid(at)yahoo.com    - Jay in Dallas
      
      
      "Bill Flick"  wrote:
      
      >need to get in touch with dave downey about some parts.  anyone have an e-mail
      address?  thanks  ralph
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
Subject: 
601 XL ride
      
      Hey Zenith owners: I spent the morning looking at 601's under construction.  
      I tried one on, and like the fit, so now I am looking for a ride in one before
      
      I  spend my moola. I live in Frostproof Fl, so I would like to find one 
      reasonably  close by that I could bum a ride in. I would be happy to pay expenses.
      Lynn Nelsen
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
From: 
Ron DeWees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      
      
      Hi Gang,
      I know that a number of other Zenith drivers like myself also have a 
      Microair 760 com radio so I hope this question won't be too far off the 
      subject.  Last week when I cranked up to fly in 95 degree temps I 
      watched my Microair radio go thru it's test sequence and waited for the 
      two lines of  digits to appear signifying the current and flip-flop 
      frequencies.  To my amazement it went from English text startup test to 
      Chines characters on the display!  At first there were a few elements of 
      digits I could recognize, but most characters were totally 
      unintelligible. I turned the radio master off and on again and it 
      settled into good ole English again.  I thought it was the heat and it 
      was ok for the rest of the flight. 
        Today when I turned on the radio in preparation for flight I got the 
      same Chinese characters again, but they wouldn't go away with recycling 
      the radio.  I remembered the two frequencies I had programmed into it 
      and it worked just fine in receive and transmit mode, but of course I 
      couldn't read them off the display because of the characters displayed.  
      I decided I couldn't make it much worse if I played around a bit with it 
      so I tried combinations of holding switches on or off, up or down while 
      turning the power on.  Within  a few minutes of fiddling I got it back 
      to English and it appears to be stable.  Anyone else ever have this 
      problem? I could believe some language other than Chinese (if it really 
      is) because I'm sure the radio is marketed worldwide. I haven't been to 
      my original literature that came with the radio to see if there is a 
      "reset" button or sequence to return to a default display language, but 
      suspect that that's what I accidentally did.
        Ideas appreciated.
      Ron
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL ride
      
           
      Hi Lynn,
      Do not know how far you are from West  Palm Beach, Fla but you may give the 
      outfit below a call or  e-mail  Jerry of GA
      
      
      "Good luck and Be a Sport Pilot!
      
      You  demo flight is available to you at the public airport in Lantana, 
      Florida.  Palm Beach Flight Training is the one to call or visit. You can visit
      
      there web site by following the GSA web ring on the home page.
      Palm Beach Flight  Training
      
      Phone: 561 963-8821
      E-mail: _info(at)pbflight.com_ (mailto:info(at)pbflight.com)  "
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
601 XL ride
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      For all official flight centers and Zenith Distributors and builders
      assistance centers please visit HYPERLINK
      "http://www.mysportplane.com/mysportplane001030.jpg"http://www.mysportpl
      ane.com/mysportplane001030.jpg  There are 3 in Florida alone, plus AMD
      in Georga.
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      HYPERLINK
      "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
      HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
      Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:43 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL ride
      
      
      Hi Lynn,
      Do not know how far you are from West Palm Beach, Fla but you may give
      the outfit below a call or e-mail  Jerry of GA
      
      
      "Good luck and Be a Sport Pilot!
      
      You demo flight is available to you at the public airport in Lantana,
      Florida. Palm Beach Flight Training is the one to call or visit. You can
      visit there web site by following the GSA web ring on the home page.
      
      Palm Beach Flight Training
      
      Phone: 561 963-8821
      E-mail: HYPERLINK "mailto:info(at)pbflight.com"info(at)pbflight.com "
      
      
         _____  
      
      "http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982"
      \nAOL.com.
      
      
      "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
      /Navigator?Zenith-List
      "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
      
      
      8/10/2007 3:50 PM
      
      
      8/10/2007 3:50 PM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL ride
      
      Yes, I spent the morning over at Zephyr Hills at the Zenith builders  center. 
      They do not have a 601 to fly. He mentioned West palm, but I was hoping  for 
      someone closer.
      Lynn
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      Ron,
               check their website, if the info is not there, check the xcom website
      because it does have information on the problem. It might be a faulty display,
      or the drivers getting scrambled at startup, if this occurs you usually have
      no control of the radio functions. Yes, they are "different" radios, in the same
      way a Savanh# is different to a 701. 
      These problems usually dont go away - lately we've had quite a lot of problems
      with the xcom to the point of replacing with microair or icoms. Earlier microairs
      had teething issues, I hope their new upgraded version is Ok - havent seen
      one yet.
      
      Ralph, radio tech
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128663#128663
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
From: 
passpat(at)aol.com
      
      LAFAYETTE avionics Radio? in Lafayette In. is a service center the fellow's name
      is Ron Wright
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: jetboy <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
      Sent: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 7:11 pm
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      
      
      Ron,
               check their website, if the info is not there, check the xcom website
      
      because it does have information on the problem. It might be a faulty display,
      
      or the drivers getting scrambled at startup, if this occurs you usually have no
      
      control of the radio functions. Yes, they are "different" radios, in the same 
      way a Savanh# is different to a 701. 
      These problems usually dont go away - lately we've had quite a lot of problems
      
      with the xcom to the point of replacing with microair or icoms. Earlier 
      microairs had teething issues, I hope their new upgraded version is Ok - havent
      
      seen one yet.
      
      Ralph, radio tech
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128663#128663
      
      
      ________________________________________________________________________
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
From: 
"chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      Help
      I am about to buy the Micro 760 or the Xcom radio for my XL
      
      I was going with the X com because it had a 2 place intercom built in at no extra
      cost and with the 760, you had to buy an extra one.
      
      What are the main problems with each radio (facts please) 
      Thanks.. 
      Chris..
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128665#128665
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      Nice Idea and used when required
      
      what about water (humidity) getting into all the avionics if you used it a lot?
      would that cause corrosion to the circut boards?
      Just a thought??
      Chris..
      searching Ebay
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128667#128667
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      Not any more the new Microair have an intercom built in.
      
      Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
      Sinfield
      Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:45 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      
      
      
      Help
      I am about to buy the Micro 760 or the Xcom radio for my XL
      
      I was going with the X com because it had a 2 place intercom built in at
      no extra cost and with the 760, you had to buy an extra one.
      
      What are the main problems with each radio (facts please) 
      Thanks.. 
      Chris..
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128665#128665
      
      
      8/10/2007 3:50 PM
      
      
      8/10/2007 3:50 PM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dave G." <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      I have a Valcom 760. This is almost the least expensive radio out there and 
      rock solid performer. Light as any of the others the only downside is size. 
      I use a Vertex as a handheld, solid but way too many "features".
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
      Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:44 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      
      
      > 
      >
      > Help
      > I am about to buy the Micro 760 or the Xcom radio for my XL
      >
      > I was going with the X com because it had a 2 place intercom built in at 
      > no extra cost and with the 760, you had to buy an extra one.
      >
      > What are the main problems with each radio (facts please)
      > Thanks..
      > Chris..
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128665#128665
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Radiator hose for Stratus
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      I've got one you want it ? I don't know what it's worth...    Joe N101HD
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Bill Steer" <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
      Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:17 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus
      
      
      > 
      > Does anybody happen to know either the hose number or the car it came 
      > from for the radiator hose supplied by Zenith in their FWF kit for 
      > Stratus Subaru?  It's the 1" x 1 1/4" hose with about a 90-degree curve 
      > on one end and a z-shaped curve at the other.
      > 
      > Thanks very much.
      > 
      > Bill
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
      
      
      Chris,
               We started using the xcom because of the intercom and additional frequencies
      (marine weather channels) and dual watch it offered.  Many faults have
      been experienced that have not been satisfactorily resolved by the factory at
      this time and its getting too expensive to keep shipping these radios back when
      they dont get repaired. I know of 4 radios currently in this category. So with
      the microair now having everything except the weather channels you have a great
      choice.
      
      To be fair, early microairs have had troubles and their transponder has only just
      come clean.
      
      To those that prefer less risk and more cost, becker, filser, garmin SL40, icom
      A200, bendixking KY97A and valcom might be better.
      
      Ralph
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128677#128677
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 11, 2007
From: 
Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      I haven't seen this unit, but the Arctic Air uses a head exchanger so  
      that air doesn't blow directly over the ice.  It will actually remove  
      humidity, which condenses out on the head exchanger.
      
      I Wonder if the guts of this think could be put into a larger  
      cooler?  Seems like it my be a handy way to "clone" an Arctic Air  
      without sourcing all all the parts.
      
      Ron
      
      On Aug 11, 2007, at 8:16 PM, chris Sinfield wrote:
      
      > 
      >
      > Nice Idea and used when required
      >
      > what about water (humidity) getting into all the avionics if you  
      > used it a lot? would that cause corrosion to the circut boards?
      > Just a thought??
      > Chris..
      > searching Ebay
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128667#128667
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      
      
      if you live in a class B environment, they cannot take the heaavy use and will
      fuse out.  High repair history.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
      >Sent: Aug 11, 2007 7:44 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
      >
      >
      >Help
      >I am about to buy the Micro 760 or the Xcom radio for my XL
      >
      >I was going with the X com because it had a 2 place intercom built in at no extra
      cost and with the 760, you had to buy an extra one.
      >
      >What are the main problems with each radio (facts please) 
      >Thanks.. 
      >Chris..
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128665#128665
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL ride
      
      
      check with RUss at flight ctrsfters, he could give you the number of the guy in
      sarasota, or the Lantana airport has one for rent.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
      >Sent: Aug 11, 2007 3:57 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL ride
      >
      >Hey Zenith owners: I spent the morning looking at 601's under construction.  
      >I tried one on, and like the fit, so now I am looking for a ride in one before
      
      >I  spend my moola. I live in Frostproof Fl, so I would like to find one 
      >reasonably  close by that I could bum a ride in. I would be happy to pay expenses.
      >Lynn Nelsen
      >
      >
      >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL ride
      
      
      ask for the number of the guys at sarasota, it is their plane so you nned to ask..
      I will be giving demo rides in mine from Albert Whitted airport after september.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
      >Sent: Aug 11, 2007 6:46 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL ride
      >
      >Yes, I spent the morning over at Zephyr Hills at the Zenith builders  center.
      
      >They do not have a 601 to fly. He mentioned West palm, but I was hoping  for 
      >someone closer.
      >Lynn
      >
      >
      >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: canopy frame
      
      
      Wade,
      These larger images show the canopy frame for the XL on my HDS. I don't 
      know if any of the drawings or details
      have changed since, but the guidance and drawings say XL Canopy so it's 
      likely going to be the same as yours.
      Do note that the slight difference in sheet metal work were done to 
      allow the forward top skin to be removable.
      This is highly recommended to make it easy to change out gages, wiring, 
      etc without being upside down in the dark.
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/insideangle.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframes.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/bottombracket.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/cnpybowsrearqtr.gif
      Images that cover the remaining details are found on the page-link below,
      http://www.macsmachine.com/html/canopy.htm
      In sections of the Journal,  Sect 4, July 28, Aug 5, 13, 26 & 28,  
      Section 5, Apr 23, 27 & 29,  Section 6 May 18 to June 7 completion of 
      canopy.
      you'll find comments to difficulties overcome and a few solutions not 
      found in the guidance sheets.
      
      good luck,
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      
      wade jones wrote:
      > Hello group ,I am getting ready to build my canopy frame .Could any of 
      > you on the list send me a picture of the welded up frame without any 
      > flashing installed .The plans are not very clear on the latch welding 
      > .Ed Moody has been very helpful by sending several photos however his 
      > photos have the flashing already installed and I need a close up of 
      > the welding .To not clutter up the site please send to 
      > wjones(at)brazoriainet.com  . Thanks DO 
      > NOT ARCHIVE
      > Wade Jones    South Texas
      > 601XL plans building
      > Cont. 0200
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: Scratchbuilders - Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming
      
      
      Hi Paul,
      
      The U-Tube nose skin bending routine starts by placing a 4-mil plastic 
      on the worktable.
      
      Then the skin is placed at center of the plastic with excess plastic all 
      around. A piece of pipe longer than the skin is placed exactly at the 
      center of bend. The pipe is screwed to the table with brackets to secure 
      position. Edges of the skin are lifted and taped edge to edge and 
      progressively shortened to bring the skin to a canoe shape. The 
      plastic is pulled up around the skin and taped to seal the overlapping 
      edges. The ends are closed and a vacuum is used at one end to suck out 
      the air and bring the sides together. The amazing part is the ability of 
      the vacuum to pull the skin tightly around the pipes diameter. The 
      vacuum is held for a few seconds and then everything is reversed 
      allowing the skins to spread slowly and the tapes are removed. The bend 
      makes a 70-degree or so angle between the skins and does a remarkable 
      job of uniform bending.
      
      I did a larger radius type press arrangement, but for the thinner wing 
      of the XL, this is just the ticket. One could do a piece just 36-inches 
      long to sample the process and get the radius right.
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      
      paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
      > For some reason, Youtube and I don't get along There is a systwem flaw 
      > between the keyboard and the chair. Could someone who's seen the video 
      > give a brief verbal rundown on how they do it? Thankya, thankya ver'much.
      > Paul Rodriguez
      > 601XL/Corvair
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Scratchbuilders - Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming
From: 
"Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      Paul, see images attached - I am posting on the forum so it won't bother regular
      email subscribers.
      
      Part 2 follows, as only 10 attachments are allowed...
      
      Carlos 
      CH601-HD, plans
      
      --------
      CH601-HD, plans
      Montreal, Canada
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128777#128777
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_home_depot_grade_plastic_on_bench_skin_on_top_100.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_steel_pipe_fastened_to_table_551.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/3_start_the_bend_manually_with_masking_tape_965.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/4_wrap_it_with_the_plastic_sheet_178.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/5_place_vacuum_hose_134.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/6_wrap_plastic_sheet_around_hose_298.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/7_start_vacuum_427.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_and_suck_it_755.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/9_a_little_more_182.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/10_done_573.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Scratchbuilders - Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming
From: 
"Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      remainder of the pictures
      
      
      Carlos
      
      --------
      CH601-HD, plans
      Montreal, Canada
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128778#128778
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/11_unwrap_and_remove_masking_tape_191.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/12_remove_screws_102.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/13_nicely_done_102.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: AMD Patriot
From: 
"LouB" <LBuckley122(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      I wonder if the new AMD patriot is a model of AeroAndina SA  from Columbia South
      America, a plane manufacturer since 1971.  The model that it resembles is the
      MXP 1000 Tayrona.  The specs are near identical to the Patriot and the appearance
      is to my eye identical.
      
      What do you think?
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128786#128786
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/mxp1000tayrona_774.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: AMD Patriot
From: 
"LouB" <LBuckley122(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      The AeroAndia SA URL:
      
      http://www.airandina.com/eng/indexsp.htm
      
      MXP1000 is ?? AMD Patriot
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128787#128787
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: 
Re: AMD Patriot
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      Now that would be really interesting!  That's the same designer who 
      first designed the Savannah before it was taken up by I.C.P. in 
      Italy....
      
      Max Tedesco, the chief engineer of AeroAndina SA, is an excellent 
      engineering designer and manufacturer, with a long history with Zenair.  
      The 701 kit that we assembled at Sun'nFun in 1990 was built in Columbia 
      by Tedesco's company.......
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: LouB 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:10 AM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot
      
      
        I wonder if the new AMD patriot is a model of AeroAndina SA  from 
      Columbia South America, a plane manufacturer since 1971.  The model that 
      it resembles is the MXP 1000 Tayrona.  The specs are near identical to 
      the Patriot and the appearance is to my eye identical.
      
        What do you think?
      
      
        Read this topic online here:
      
        http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128786#128786
      
      
        Attachments: 
      
        http://forums.matronics.com//files/mxp1000tayrona_774.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
"Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      See the attached link:
      
      
      http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 07081216021283&item=1-2335-A&catname
      =electric
      
      
      It is for a 12VDC thermal transducer, the same type used in the 12VDC drink
      coolers. I always wondered if several could be put into a plenum.  Divide
      the hot side and the cold side, and perhaps use a muffin fan. The hot could
      be vented overboard. You could even make duct valves to let in ram air and
      even switch from hot to cold. If it works, you could possibly adapt a
      control panel from the auto junkyard.
      
      
      I think that the biggest draw back would be rate of heat transfer from the
      heat sink to the moving air. Of course, another draw back of any air
      conditioning system would be weight. I have never used one of these devices,
      so I have no technical knowledge of them. Someday I plan to purchase one and
      make a test plenum out of cardboard to see if it works.
      
      
      Has anyone experimented with one? Is this idea feasible?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Microair 760 /Chinese characters
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      Chris,
               I dont know if the misic input on the microair fades or not. Are you sure
      you dont get marine weater data over there? In the Auckland area there are
      two transmitters, 161.6 and 161.65 that run a continuous forecast including actual
      windspeeds from about 8 anenometers around the coast. Very useful for flying
      and keeping an ear on conditions.
      
      Meanwhile my answer previous about suitable radios got a bit dated. Icom now has
      a new model, IC A210, that has all the modern features including marine weather
      receive & VOX intercom, dual watch etc.  Found it on none other than the RA-Aus
      site.
      
      Ralph
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128799#128799
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
Subject: 
Re: AMD Patriot
      
      So what! You guys spend way to much time crucifying various companies and  
      their products and to little time in your shops building. TO MUCH ALREADY GIVE
      
      IT A REST!! 
      
      John  Read
      
      Phone: 303-648-3261
      Fax: 303-648-3262
      Cell:  719-494-4567
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
John C Edwards <cte82621(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: 
new builder in Seattle..CH701
      
      
      I have been very entertained and interested for months following your 
      various postings. Just started 6months ago on my 701 and enjoying the 
      process! Today I finished an EAA workshop on Avionics and Wiring, very 
      informative indeed and afarid now I will be a fanatic when it comes to 
      that part and doing it just right.
      Look forward to it all...John in Kapowsin(near Seattle)
      
      website at  kitlog.com/kapowsin
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)rogers.com>
Subject: 
AMD Patriot
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      ??? 
      
      
       And this reaction was brought on by what?
      
      
      Having watched this thread I found the info presented interesting.  If it
      doesn't meet your exacting standard there is always the DELETE key
      
      
      BTW, how did you read this if you where in your shop building?
      
      
      Paul Riedlinger
      
      paulried(at)rogers.com
      
      
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      JohnDRead(at)aol.com
      Sent: August-12-07 6:19 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AMD Patriot
      
      
      So what! You guys spend way to much time crucifying various companies and
      their products and to little time in your shops building. TO MUCH ALREADY
      GIVE IT A REST!! 
      
      
      John Read
      
      Phone: 303-648-3261
      Fax: 303-648-3262
      Cell: 719-494-4567
      
      
        _____  
      
      <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Robert Hansen <stol701(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: new builder in Seattle..CH701
      
      Welcome to the list John. You will find many answers to many questions on t
      his list, don't forget to check archives.=0A=0ARob=0ANew Mexico=0Ahttp://we
      bsites.expercraft.com/rhansen/=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: 
      John C Edwards =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0A
      Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:25:22 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: new builde
      ds =0A=0AI have been very entertained and interest
      ed for months following your =0Avarious postings. Just started 6months ago 
      on my 701 and enjoying the =0Aprocess! Today I finished an EAA workshop on 
      Avionics and Wiring, very =0Ainformative indeed and afarid now I will be a 
      fanatic when it comes to =0Athat part and doing it just right.=0ALook forwa
      rd to it all...John in Kapowsin(near Seattle)=0A=0Awebsite at  kitlog.com/k
      =====0A=0A=0A      ________________________________________________
      ____________________________________=0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to pl
      ease? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylin
      k.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 =0A
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      I have worked extensively with peltier devices (solid state heat pump). They
      were part of black body systems (Infra-Red energy source) used to calibrate
      various laboratory and military grade IR sensors. Typical single layer
      installation (they can be stacked to increase the delta-T) can give up to a
      -40 to +50 degree C delta T. Delta T is proportional to current, and heat or
      cool dependant on polarity. The Peltier device must be extensively heat
      sinked, and the stack must be carefully assembled, or the device will be
      damaged. The units from the food cooler/heaters are of relatively low power
      capacity, much too small for cooling a cockpit and are not designed to
      actually change the temperature of the food, but only to maintain something
      that was already cooled as cool or vise a versa.
      A TE systems of the size necessary to effectively cool, or even be powerful
      enough to have a sensible effect in the cockpit would be 1-expensive in the
      initial cost of parts, 2- require engineering to effectively heat sink, 3
      require large amounts of current resulting in greater demands on your
      electrical system, 4-require a temperature/TE control system, further
      complicating the engineering effort. You will need a lot of those food
      coolers to make a difference in the cockpit.
      TEs (thermoelectrics) are generally used where small devices or spot cooling
      is needed, like a computer chip, CCD imagers, and small volume applications
      (a food cooler/warmer). While they have been used in military applications
      for large volume applications, there is usually an unlimited source of both
      tax dollars and electrical energy available for the system.  I'll spare the
      math for the sake of brevity, but there are much more practical solutions
      for cooling, particularly if cost is a factor.
      My advice: save your time and money, if you are looking for cooling
      capacity, look at the small air-conditioners used to cool electrical
      cabinets, (might be able to find them in electrical salvage/auctions) and
      use an inverter rated to supply the AC to the compressor motor, or convert
      an automotive AC unit to run off a belt or accessory case drive.
      CS
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Thompson
      Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 5:29 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      See the attached link:
      
      
      http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 07081216021283&item=1-2335-A&catname
      =electric
      
      
      It is for a 12VDC thermal transducer, the same type used in the 12VDC drink
      coolers. I always wondered if several could be put into a plenum.  Divide
      the hot side and the cold side, and perhaps use a muffin fan. The hot could
      be vented overboard. You could even make duct valves to let in ram air and
      even switch from hot to cold. If it works, you could possibly adapt a
      control panel from the auto junkyard.
      
      
      I think that the biggest draw back would be rate of heat transfer from the
      heat sink to the moving air. Of course, another draw back of any air
      conditioning system would be weight. I have never used one of these devices,
      so I have no technical knowledge of them. Someday I plan to purchase one and
      make a test plenum out of cardboard to see if it works.
      
      
      Has anyone experimented with one? Is this idea feasible?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
panel finally done
      
      finallty plugged the panel in.
      
      Juan
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Scratchbuilders - Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming
From: 
"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      Thats the process I used just with a little modification.  I didn't need to flip
      the table over I used 3/4 MDF and bridged it on the table.
      
      Thanks for posting that stuff Mark.
      
      Here is the link to the process used
      
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128857#128857
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
finally plugged in
      
      finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      In a message dated 8/12/2007 9:33:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
      pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
      
      conditioners used to cool electrical cabinets, (might be able to find  them 
      in electrical salvage/auctions) and 
      
      
      Why not just use a 25 pound can of feron in place of the motor and  
      compressor. You then only need a heat exchanger in the cabin.  Jerry of  GA
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
finally plugged in
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      Juan, nice common sense layout, this should server your well and with
      pride.
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      president@can-zacaviation.com
      www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
      Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:57 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      
      finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
      
      8/12/2007 11:03 AM
      
      
      8/12/2007 11:03 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
From: 
"Steve Hulland" <marinegunner(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: finally plugged in
      
      Juan,
      Very nice 601 panel. I may print it in the local EAA newsletter for all the
      Zenith builders we have in our chapter - 8 or 9 I think. Mine is done and
      about to fly, but will never be as great as yours is.
      -- 
      Semper Fi,
      Steven R. Hulland
      CH 600 Taildragger
      Amado, AZ
      
      This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
      prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
      free email and attachments.
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: AMD Patriot
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 12, 2007
      
      
      Isn't the Patriot150 actually the production name for the project given the temporary
      name CH750?
      
      http://www.zenithair.com/news/ch750.html
      
      
      To my eye it looks similar to a C150 perhaps thats why its called a P150
      
      Ralph
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128881#128881
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
"Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
601 XL ride
      
      Lynn -- I keep my AMD-made 601XL in Marathon, in the Florida Keys.  Yes,
      that's a few hundred miles from Frostproof, but everybody needs the Keys
      experience.  I'd be happy to give you a ride.
      -- 
      Frank Derfler
      
      -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
      (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
      
      - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
      
      -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
      www.KEYSBOATER.com
      
      -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jason Bogli" <jboglilaw(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: finally plugged in
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      HI Juan:
      
      Nice panel.  What material is your panel made from.  Any tips for creating 
      the professioanl look.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
      Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:56 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      
      
      > finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
      
      
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      
      11:03 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: 
Cooling the cockpit
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      Members,
           When I first got my Zodiac601XL I had a real problem with heat in 
      the cockpit and found that most of it was coming from around the two 
      steering rods where they go through the firewall.  I don't understand 
      why the designer made the slots so long because the rods have very 
      little up and down movement during use.  I glued velcro on the firewall 
      on each side of the rods and used leather cut as per the drawing to 
      close the holes.  I also bought two plastic vents from Aircraft Spruce 
      and installed them in the forward lower part of the canopy and this 
      solved my heat problem.
      
      Tracy Stone
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
<dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: Cooling the cockpit
      
      
      I bought a couple of rubber shift stick boots out of J.C.Whitney online and will
      stuff them with fiberglass to act as fireproof insulation. I made a mounting
      frame for them out of 6061-T6 .025 which is rivetted to the firewall. I bit the
      bullet and bought sound and temperature insulation material from AS and installed
      that stuff behind the firewall and on the front side walls and cabin floor.
      Added about 3.5 pounds but I figured it was worth it..... we'll see when
      it flies.
      
      Dred
      
      ---- robert stone  wrote: 
      > Members,
      >      When I first got my Zodiac601XL I had a real problem with heat in the cockpit
      and found that most of it was coming from around the two steering rods where
      they go through the firewall.  I don't understand why the designer made the
      slots so long because the rods have very little up and down movement during
      use.  I glued velcro on the firewall on each side of the rods and used leather
      cut as per the drawing to close the holes.  I also bought two plastic vents
      from Aircraft Spruce and installed them in the forward lower part of the canopy
      and this solved my heat problem.
      > 
      > Tracy Stone
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked.  
      Not sure if the Green people would approve - BUT  Jerry of Ga
      
      Do not  archive
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
Greg Kendall <gregnk8(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
RE: Corvair engines
      
      Patrick,
      
      You can bring your crank in to any decent auto machine shop and have them test
      the surface for hardening.  Just one drop of a special chemical immediately give
      you results no guessing. Doesn't give you the depth of the hardening but confirms
      that it was heat treated.  Amazing that no one seems to be aware of this.
      But I guess WW did not say it so the lot of his apologists think its apostasy
      to investigate this on their own.
      
      After seeing all the emotional posts its pretty clear that Im staying away from
      the whole corvair industry.  I got so mayn private messages from folks who had
      terrible experience with Wynne that the list almost looks like his apostles
      are Taliban working at intimidating anyone who disagrees with them. 
      
      I've decided against the Corvair engine with all this bickering but I definitely
      would use the Venturay set up that uses a Lycoming hub for the starter and alternator
      and that lets you safety-wire the prop bolts.  AIrcraft-quality and
      proven . WW may have a lot of experience but seems bound to outdated automotive
      ideas.
      
      BTW those who think that a homebuilder is incapable of making his own parts should
      take up another hobby.  If everything you do needs the blessing of WW, then
      your safest bet is to stay on the ground. I say go ahead and experiment, thats
      why its called EXPERIMENTAL aviation. Fear-mongering about the risk of dying
      if you make things yourself is just ignorant since most of us have built the
      most important part ourselves -- the airframe, NOT the engine.
      
      Greg
      
             
      ---------------------------------
             
      ---------------------------------
      Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditione
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      Just a couple of comments on replies to the below message.
      
      1.  The unit is not a "swamp" cooler, which works well in hot dry 
      weather, such as Arizona/Nevada in the Summer or in SoCal with a Santa 
      Anna..  It does have an ON/OFF mist switch which would work to exchange 
      the heat of evaporation (like the swamp coolers) but in humid areas such 
      as here in Tennessee the mist setting is worthless and would just mist 
      the melted water into the air via the fan and get things wet..  The heat 
      exchange from the melting ice does though work, but again, it only has 
      enough capacity for about an hour or less of cooling effort.    It does 
      have capacity to get you to a higher cooler altitude.
      2.  It does not appear to add to the humidity in the cockpit.  Warm cool 
      air passing over the ice would have (some of) its water condensed by the 
      cold ice.  If you believe this not to be the case or did not want 
      additional water available to possibly add to the cockpit humidity when 
      the ice is melted, then you could use self contained "Ice packs" (which 
      when warmed up could only add the water to the air that was removed 
      previously).
      
      I have used it twice now. The unit will definitely not freeze you out of 
      the cockpit, but does make ground and low level ops a little more 
      tolerable, for a while, in very hot weather.  
      
      Max Energy consumption of the unit,  per the box,  is 1.1 Amp.
      
      For $49.00 I believe it to be worth it's price - BUT -  just my opinion.
      
      VMC and CAVU to all,
      
      Tony Graziano
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: T. Graziano 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:38 PM
        Subject: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
        It has been really HOT here in NW Tennessee for the past few weeks 
      (high 90ies low 100s) and will also be hot next week.  When I flew a few 
      days ago I came back soaked in sweat, a lot more than usual.  Today I 
      had promised a flight to father of a friend of mine for his 93rd 
      birthday.
      
        Last night at Wal-Mart, I saw a portable  "Cool Box" Personal Air 
      Conditioner for $49.  It was similar in concept to the ones being sold 
      for about $500 in that you put in ice and it has a fan blowing air over 
      the ice. It is not as big as the expensive ones. It also has a "mist" 
      setting (which would probably be great in desert dry hot air).  It can 
      be run from 8 D cells, plugged into house current using an adaptor, or 
      better yet, it comes with a power plug-in for 12 V.  It has two fan 
      settings.  
      
        Because of the age of my passenger and the relative low cost, I bought 
      one to see how it would perform in my XL.
      
        It easily fits behind the seats in the cargo compartment (I bungeed it 
      in) and it did work to lower the temps to a more comfortable range for 
      me and my passenger - for about an hour (OAT was 95F). (Box says it will 
      lower temps 30F)  You could tell when all the ice had melted from the 
      temp/sweat increase inside the XL. There was no apparent RFI from the 
      fan.
      
        The box the unit came in has a net address of WWW.o2-cool.com, .
      
        Down side (besides only being good for about an hour) is that there 
      was a lot of condensate/water on the outside of the unit which did 
      "moisturize" my cargo carpet.  I will glue on some insulation to the 
      outside of the unit.
      
        For those still building,  I had Installed a power plug behind the 
      seat backs and also one up front near the consol. (Usually have the one 
      behind the seat backs reserved for my portable Nav/Com.)  I also 
      installed structural pick-ups for bungees etc in my cargo compartment.
      
        Tony Graziano
        601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 271 hours
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Be interesting to see what's going on in a 12 volt cooler. http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/Koolatron_Compact_18_Quart_12_Volt_Cooler/itemID.846/itemType.PRODUCT/iMainCat.28/iSubCat.62/iProductID.846/qx/shopping/product/P20.htm
      
      Wonder if there's some way to use the internals on one (or two, or three) to make
      an air conditioner for a 601.
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128970#128970
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: finally plugged in
      
      
      get your panel powder coated, and make a sub panel.  it is easier to pull instruments
      out, and the powder coating is in various textures and is bullet proof,
      will not chip unless it is intentional.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Jason Bogli <jboglilaw(at)cox.net>
      >Sent: Aug 13, 2007 7:47 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      >
      >
      >HI Juan:
      >
      >Nice panel.  What material is your panel made from.  Any tips for creating 
      >the professioanl look.
      >----- Original Message ----- 
      >From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
      >To: "Zodiac Forum" 
      >Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:56 PM
      >Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      >
      >
      >> finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
      >
      >
      >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >11:03 AM
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: finally plugged in
      
      
      sounds cool to me, I appreciate the possitive feed back.  Send me a copy of you'alls
      EAA newletter.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Steve Hulland <marinegunner(at)gmail.com>
      >Sent: Aug 13, 2007 12:08 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      >
      >Juan,
      >Very nice 601 panel. I may print it in the local EAA newsletter for all the
      >Zenith builders we have in our chapter - 8 or 9 I think. Mine is done and
      >about to fly, but will never be as great as yours is.
      >-- 
      >Semper Fi,
      >Steven R. Hulland
      >CH 600 Taildragger
      >Amado, AZ
      >
      >This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
      >prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
      >free email and attachments.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
finally plugged in
      
      
      thanx Mark.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: ZodieRocket <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
      >Sent: Aug 12, 2007 11:41 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      >
      >
      >Juan, nice common sense layout, this should server your well and with
      >pride.
      >
      >Mark Townsend
      >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      >president@can-zacaviation.com
      >www.can-zacaviation.com 
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
      >Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:57 PM
      >To: Zodiac Forum
      >Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
      >
      >finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
      >
      >8/12/2007 11:03 AM
      > 
      >  
      >
      >8/12/2007 11:03 AM
      > 
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 
Re: TE / peltier junction
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      Thanks for the tips.
      
      Raymond Julian
      Kettle River, MN
      
      "Hope for the best,
      but prepare for the worst."
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: C Smith 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:31 AM
        Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
        try   http://www.ferrotec.com/technology/thermoelectric/
        remember that from any intake air source that you reduce in 
      temperature, there will be the water condensing. You will need to find a 
      way to keep it from the TE wafer itself, and provide a drainage path 
      from your cooling heat sink.
        CS
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of raymondj
        Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:09 AM
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
        Greetings Mr. Smith,
      
            I'm toying with the idea of cooling enough air to stick a tube 
      into the front of my shirt to provide a little cooling, say 15 deg F. 
      below ambient.  Can you recommend any sources of information for the 
      fundamentals of  TE utilization. 
      
        Thanks,
        Raymond Julian
        Kettle River, MN
      
        "Hope for the best,
        but prepare for the worst"
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't emtpy
      right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus the Y-stick.
      
      That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in last months
      Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I explained how many
      fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
      
      
      ashontz wrote:
      > 
      > Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a fan in
      it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the seats on a dual
      stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
      > 
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
      
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128979#128979
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Pull out the guts and make a new box for it. You're only interested in the cooling
      parts anyway, not the box itself. How much does it weigh? 15 pounds. That's
      not too bad for a mini refrigerator. Besides, it would mount right at the CG.
      I think it's a pretty cool idea, no pun intended. May actually work well. Bet
      there'd be a market for a 1000BTU A/C unit for small planes that didn't cost
      a fortune and only hooked into the electrical harness instead of a belt system
      that connected to the flywheel on the engine. I can think of several ways to
      make one that would cost about $50 in parts.
      
      
      Gig Giacona wrote:
      > You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't emtpy
      right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus the Y-stick.
      > 
      > That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in last months
      Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I explained how many
      fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
      > 
      > 
      > ashontz wrote:
      > > 
      > > Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a fan
      in it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the seats on a dual
      stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
      > > 
      > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
      > 
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128985#128985
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      http://www.flightlineac.com/vans_aircraft_kits
      
      $6,000, you gotta be kidding me. This is nothing more than a retro-fitted A/C system
      out of junkyard for $100 with certain key components remade out of the aluminum.
      Looks just like the A/C parts for my 1985 Nissan pickup.
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128988#128988
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Joe" <joe(at)kfiz.com>
Subject: 
Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Guys,
      
      I like these posts about an air conditioned 601! Most of us up here in 
      Wisconsin wouldn't need this, but for the folks down south, I can see where 
      this would be useful! I am building my 601 with the 6 cyl Jab and no vacuum 
      pump with lightweight instruments. If a guy could put together an air 
      conditioning system that weighed in under 20 LBS, why not!
      
      At the Oshkosh convention I went to the John Deere booth and looked at some 
      small tractors with enclosed cabins and noticed they were air conditioned. I 
      checked under the hood and found a very small compressor, dryer, condenser, 
      and many other very small parts in comparison to the ones found in the 
      automobile industry. How cool is that!
      
      The air conditioner in your car is way overbuilt and way more powerfull than 
      needed because they are designed to rapidly cool the car for instant relief! 
      If you could scale down the system with smaller parts, lighter weight fans, 
      and safety changes such as clutch disengagement with 80% or more throttle so 
      it would be disconnected for takeoff and climb, you might have something for 
      a homebuilt airplane.
      
      Hot rod magazines and parts catalogs sell aftermarket air conditioning units 
      with the fan box, firewall fittings, etc. All you would have to do is design 
      an attachment for a pully or direct drive for the back of the Jabaru where 
      the air pump is located!
      
      When I was building my PT-2, Steve Wittman would come over in the evenings 
      and inspect my work. One night he said to me, "do you know how much weight 
      that seat upholstery adds to the airplane" He built his seats simmilar to 
      lawn chair webbing. I plan on keeping my 601 forever, and I don't mind a 
      little extra weight to be comfortable. Lots of upholstery, sound deading 
      insulation, radios, etc. 20 LBS of air conditioning may raise a few 
      eyebrows, but I would do it!
      
      I just watched a Modern Marvels show on TV about sticky stuff! They showed a 
      product by 3M that was a foam based tape. They had 2 aluminum panels, one 
      riveted, and one taped and riveted. They hit it with a bowling ball until it 
      completely failed. The taped panel was 20 times stronger than the untaped 
      panel! The PT-2 airplane kit used this tape to bond the ribs to the skin, 
      then pop rivets were used. I made a mistake and had to remove one of the 
      ribs. It took all night with laquer thinner and a utility knife blade to 
      remove it. The tape was 2 faced and very thin. It's used in the automotive 
      industry to apply chrome strips. The TV show showed them using it in 
      building construction! If CH reads these posts, I sure would like to get his 
      reaction on using this tape for the wings on a 601.
      
      Joe in Oshkosh 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      Andy,
      I'd not recommend a 12-V Cooler for anything like the cockpit of a 601. 
      The simple plate area and fan are dependent upon a small area that 
      recirculates air  for a period of about 12 -24 hours to do any serious 
      cooling.   The mix of heat in a 601 would absorb the cool air so quickly 
      that it'd be like putting a bag of frozen Popsicles in the plane.  Once 
      melted, you'd have never noticed a difference, even on a 80-degree day.  
      The materials are very light, as is the typical performance output of a 
      12-V cooler.
      You'd be better off drinking lots of ice water just before a flight.{;<)
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      
      ashontz wrote:
      >
      > Be interesting to see what's going on in a 12 volt cooler. http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/Koolatron_Compact_18_Quart_12_Volt_Cooler/itemID.846/itemType.PRODUCT/iMainCat.28/iSubCat.62/iProductID.846/qx/shopping/product/P20.htm
      >
      > Wonder if there's some way to use the internals on one (or two, or three) to
      make an air conditioner for a 601.
      >
      > --------
      > Andy Shontz
      > CH601XL - Corvair
      > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      >
      >   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      joe(at)kfiz.com wrote:
      > At the Oshkosh convention I went to the John Deere booth and looked at some 
      > small tractors with enclosed cabins and noticed they were air conditioned. I
      
      > checked under the hood and found a very small compressor, dryer, condenser, 
      > and many other very small parts in comparison to the ones found in the 
      > automobile industry. How cool is that!
      > 
      
      
      Cool idea. I hadn't thought of them. Yeah, car A/Cs are overkill. I wouldn't be
      surprised if a small John Deer could be run off a 12-volt motor instead of coupled
      directly to the engine via a pulley.
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128999#128999
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Maybe, maybe not. The John Deer A/C sounds more like it's suited for a small plane.
      I'd say the conditions are similar, out in the hot sun in a big open bubble
      and apparently it works fine on a tractor.
      
      
      larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
      > Andy,
      > I'd not recommend a 12-V Cooler for anything like the cockpit of a 601. 
      > The simple plate area and fan are dependent upon a small area that 
      > recirculates air  for a period of about 12 -24 hours to do any serious 
      > cooling.   The mix of heat in a 601 would absorb the cool air so quickly 
      > that it'd be like putting a bag of frozen Popsicles in the plane.  Once 
      > melted, you'd have never noticed a difference, even on a 80-degree day.  
      > The materials are very light, as is the typical performance output of a 
      > 12-V cooler.
      > You'd be better off drinking lots of ice water just before a flight.{;
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129000#129000
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
From: 
"Matthew Mucker" <matthew(at)mucker.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      I doubt this is a compressor-based refrigeration unit. More likely, it uses 
      a Peltier junction for cooling. These things suck electricity, and create a 
      temperature differential across the device. You'll need a way to dump the 
      waste heat overboard.
      
      You'd probably do better to get a surplus Peltier jucntion on the surplus 
      market. I found http://www.thsengineering.com/surplus/tec.html with a quick 
      search.
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:14 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      >
      > Pull out the guts and make a new box for it. You're only interested in the 
      > cooling parts anyway, not the box itself. How much does it weigh? 15 
      > pounds. That's not too bad for a mini refrigerator. Besides, it would 
      > mount right at the CG. I think it's a p
      > retty cool idea, no pun intended. May actually work well. Bet there'd be a 
      > market for a 1000BTU A/C unit for small planes that didn't cost a fortune 
      > and only hooked into the electrical harness instead of a belt system that 
      > connected to the flywheel on t
      > he engine. I can think of several ways to make one that would cost about 
      > $50 in parts.
      >
      >
      > Gig Giacona wrote:
      >> You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't 
      >> emtpy right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus 
      >> the Y-stick.
      >>
      >> That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in 
      >> last months Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I 
      >> explained how many fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
      >>
      >>
      >> ashontz wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a 
      >> > fan in it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the 
      >> > seats on a dual stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air 
      >> > conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
      >> >
      >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
      >>
      >
      >
      > --------
      > Andy Shontz
      > CH601XL - Corvair
      > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128985#128985
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Also, license is required  to legally purchase refrigerants in US
      
      Uh oh, the lawyer again.
      
      Actually, I just went down to Pep Boys last month and bought some R-134A for my
      old truck (right here in New Jersey, USA of all places, who'da thunk it was possible?).
      
      Whoah, Autozone is carrying R-134A too. Holy hell!!!
      http://www.autozone.com/R,NONAPP22886/store,1893/shopping/accessoryProductDetail.htm
      
      Dag, AdvancedAuto is busted too. R134A recharge kit, WITH INSTRUCTIONS NO LESS!!!
      
      http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/specials/coolingsystem.asp
      
      [quote="pilot4pay"]Well, there is a really  really big problem, you see the venting
      of CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs into the  atmosphere, either intentionally or inadvertently
      in quantities other than that  from disconnecting a hose from an evacuation
      pump or manifold gauge is  prohibited by federal law, titles 608, 609
      of the EPA (Federal Clean air  act/Montreal and Kyoto protocols). Fine minimum
      $20,000 per discharge. The EPA  offers a $10,000 reward for tips on violators.
      You don't happen to have the N  number handy do you???? Be nice to have uncle
      Sam finance my  CH640......
       Also, license is required  to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the price
      of refrigerants these  days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when all
      that's needed is a pound and  a half or so for a closed system? Legalities aside,
      not a very economical  option, and indeed quite risky, and terrible for the
      environment.
       Now, a legal form of lost  refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or pressurized
      CO2) type of cooler, used  by refrigerated trucks and rail for decades.
      
         From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57  AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List:  Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
       Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked.  Not
      sure if the Green people would approve - BUT  Jerry of Ga
      
       Do not  archive
      
      
         title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982  href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982"  target=_blank>AOL.com.
      
      > 
      > 
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      > 
      > [b]
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129012#129012
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Didn't the green people push for R134A to replace R22? This is old news. Back around
      1992 you couldn't get refrigerant it Pep Boys anymore. now you can go down
      and buy as many cans of R134A is you like.
      
      [quote="pilot4pay"]Well, there is a really  really big problem, you see the venting
      of CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs into the  atmosphere, either intentionally or inadvertently
      in quantities other than that  from disconnecting a hose from an evacuation
      pump or manifold gauge is  prohibited by federal law, titles 608, 609
      of the EPA (Federal Clean air  act/Montreal and Kyoto protocols). Fine minimum
      $20,000 per discharge. The EPA  offers a $10,000 reward for tips on violators.
      You don't happen to have the N  number handy do you???? Be nice to have uncle
      Sam finance my  CH640......
       Also, license is required  to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the price
      of refrigerants these  days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when all
      that's needed is a pound and  a half or so for a closed system? Legalities aside,
      not a very economical  option, and indeed quite risky, and terrible for the
      environment.
       Now, a legal form of lost  refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or pressurized
      CO2) type of cooler, used  by refrigerated trucks and rail for decades.
      
         From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57  AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List:  Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
       Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked.  Not
      sure if the Green people would approve - BUT  Jerry of Ga
      
       Do not  archive
      
      
         title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982  href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982"  target=_blank>AOL.com.
      
      > 
      > 
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      > 
      > [b]
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129013#129013
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      
      Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
      In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization.
      Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to
      be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
      I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
      committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the
      matter with you?
      I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if
      ya get caught.
      What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
      endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
      your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
      So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz
      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:26 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      Also, license is required  to legally purchase refrigerants in US
      
      Uh oh, the lawyer again.
      
      Actually, I just went down to Pep Boys last month and bought some R-134A for
      my old truck (right here in New Jersey, USA of all places, who'da thunk it
      was possible?).
      
      Whoah, Autozone is carrying R-134A too. Holy hell!!!
      http://www.autozone.com/R,NONAPP22886/store,1893/shopping/accessoryProductDe
      tail.htm
      
      Dag, AdvancedAuto is busted too. R134A recharge kit, WITH INSTRUCTIONS NO
      LESS!!!
      
      http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/specials/coolingsystem.asp
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 13, 2007
      
      Of course, the co2 systems have an evaporator, just like sealed systems, and
      vent outboard of their containers.
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey
      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 PM
      Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      ...just make sure that the evaporation products do not dilute the breathable
      oxygen mixture in the cabin...confined space limitations might make that
      non-feasible.
      
      C Smith  wrote: 
      
      Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or
      pressurized CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for
      decades.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
Subject: 
Pegastol Wings
From: 
martyn(at)flight.co.za
      
      
      Hello Chaps and Chappettes,
      
      Anybody know where I can find more information or plans about the Pegastol
      wing  for the CH 701 ?
      
      Sincerely
      Martyn Ward
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 
Re: Pegastol Wings
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      
      The new owner is Raymond Miller in Alaska.  You can e-mail him at 
      moseus(at)gmail.com.  Larry
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: <martyn(at)flight.co.za>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:40 AM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Pegastol Wings
      
      
      >
      > Hello Chaps and Chappettes,
      >
      > Anybody know where I can find more information or plans about the Pegastol
      > wing  for the CH 701 ?
      >
      > Sincerely
      > Martyn Ward
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
Bill Steer <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Radiator hose for Stratus
      
      
      Thanks very much for the offer, Joe.  I'm going to try to pick one up at 
      my local parts store today.  If that fails, I'll be in touch about 
      yours.  I'm on the verge of first engine start and am anxious to get the 
      cooling system finished.
      
      Bill
      
      
      Southern Reflections wrote:
      > 
      >
      > I've got one you want it ? I don't know what it's worth...    Joe N101HD
      > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Steer" <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
      > To: "Zenith_list" 
      > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:17 PM
      > Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus
      >
      >
      >>
      >> Does anybody happen to know either the hose number or the car it came 
      >> from for the radiator hose supplied by Zenith in their FWF kit for 
      >> Stratus Subaru?  It's the 1" x 1 1/4" hose with about a 90-degree 
      >> curve on one end and a z-shaped curve at the other.
      >>
      >> Thanks very much.
      >>
      >> Bill
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"haven" <haven(at)cfl.rr.com>
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      
      John Deere parts are almost as expensive as aviation parts.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129189#129189
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
From: 
"ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      
      You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the problem
      is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have destroyed
      general aviation. We already went through this. I 
      guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and
      is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have
      in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for
      such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like
      a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.'
      
      
      pilot4pay wrote:
      > Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
      > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization.
      > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to
      > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
      > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
      > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the
      > matter with you?
      > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if
      > ya get caught.
      > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
      > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
      > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
      > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
      > --
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
japhillipsga(at)aol.com
      
      Maybe you fellows ought to get married.
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
      Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 2:32 pm
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the 
      problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have
      
      destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I 
      guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and
      
      is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have
      
      in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for 
      such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a 
      feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.'
      
      
      pilot4pay wrote:
      > Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
      > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization.
      > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to
      > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
      > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
      > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the
      > matter with you?
      > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if
      > ya get caught.
      > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
      > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
      > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
      > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
      > --
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196
      
      
      ________________________________________________________________________
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
japhillipsga(at)aol.com
      
      Maybe you fellows ought to get married.
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
      Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 2:32 pm
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the 
      problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have
      
      destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I 
      guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and
      
      is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have
      
      in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for 
      such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a 
      feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.'
      
      
      pilot4pay wrote:
      > Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
      > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization.
      > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to
      > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
      > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
      > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the
      > matter with you?
      > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if
      > ya get caught.
      > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
      > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
      > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
      > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
      > --
      
      
      --------
      Andy Shontz
      CH601XL - Corvair
      www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196
      
      
      ________________________________________________________________________
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mike Honer" <amhoner(at)rtmc.net>
Subject: 
My 601XL for your 701?
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      Several years ago we moved from the airpark to this place in the 
      country. We now have a 1200 ft. grass strip, and would like to use it. I 
      am not confident that the 601XL is the bird for this strip, even tho it 
      might work. Issues with 100 ft tall trees, chicken-hearted pilot, etc.
      
      The 601 is complete to fishing the canopy, built from Zenith 
      Kit...equipped with Jabiru 3300 SN 299...Needs systems 
      installation...i.e.,about 50% done.
      
      Is there anyone out there with the opposite situation, who might rather 
      have a 601XL than his 701?
      
      If so, we should talk.
      
      Mike Honer, North Carolina
      
      336-857-1151
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
"Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      Back off Andy.  There is a large difference between lawyering that killed GA
      and someone pointing out that a) it is illegal to stock up on refrigerants
      and b) many people seem to see that as a challenge.   Your comment ("you're
      (sic) general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum") is complete crap
      and your follow-up statement is equally ignorant.  From your statements I
      would gather that in your opinion the only people who should be part of the
      homebuilt community are ignorant male chauvinists that like to break the
      law?
      
      Michael in NH
      
      On 8/14/07, ashontz  wrote:
      >
      >
      > You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the
      > problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers
      > have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I
      > guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a
      > pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits
      > lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is
      > rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community
      > is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization
      > and 'hanging out.'
      >
      >
      > pilot4pay wrote:
      > > Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
      > > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a
      > generalization.
      > > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have
      > to
      > > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
      > > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
      > > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's
      > the
      > > matter with you?
      > > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong,
      > only if
      > > ya get caught.
      > > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
      > > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
      > > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
      > > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
      > > --
      >
      >
      > --------
      > Andy Shontz
      > CH601XL - Corvair
      > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related)
      
      Hey Michael in NH: Not all attorney's are bad, just like not all people are  
      bad. However, there is certainly a perception that they mostly look for the 
      big  money. I had two shirttail relatives who quit the profession because of the
      
       actual and perceived injustice in the system. (It is all run by attorneys) 
      In  addition, my father refused to become an attorney (when given the chance) 
      
      because when he asked how they made a living he was told that all he had to do
      
       was find one well to do client.
      Lynn in Frostproof wishing for a 601 XL
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
Terry Turnquist <ter_turn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related)
      
      Hey guys, enough already! This list is fun and very educational until one of us
      stays out in the heat to long!  I was once a meatcutter and some managers actually
      ground up beef hearts and spleens into the hamburger for extra profit, proof
      that some in all professions can be motivated by greed! Just look at the
      televangelists!  Go take a cold shower and have a beer.!  Remember, "Don't worry,
      nothing will be alright!"
         
        Terry Turnquist
      
      IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com wrote:
            Hey Michael in NH: Not all attorney's are bad, just like not all people are
      bad. However, there is certainly a perception that they mostly look for the
      big money. I had two shirttail relatives who quit the profession because of the
      actual and perceived injustice in the system. (It is all run by attorneys)
      In addition, my father refused to become an attorney (when given the chance) because
      when he asked how they made a living he was told that all he had to do
      was find one well to do client.
        Lynn in Frostproof wishing for a 601 XL
      
      
          
      ---------------------------------
        AOL.com.
      
      
             
      ---------------------------------
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Chat to start in a few minutes
From: 
"Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com>
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      
      I do, too.  That doesn't stop me.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129245#129245
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
From: 
"Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. I'm a
      cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V / 120V /
      LP gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed the guts and
      installed it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, even makes ice.
      It takes longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it still works. It draws
      about 2 to 3 amps on 12V.  It has an ammonia cooling unit. I don't know what
      it weighs but I think it didn't weigh too much, not nearly as much as my
      tiny 5000 BTU window air conditioner in my shop office. It seems that one
      could be adapted to our use. I DO wonder about the ammonia if it gets a
      leak. I don't know about those things.  Below is a link that explains how
      they work. It discusses gas Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the
      same way with a 12V heater. 
      
      
      http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm
      <http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm&url=http://
      www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html> &url=http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
      
      
      Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea.
      
      
      http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator-mr
      ft40.htm
      
      
      Possible positives:
      
      Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, plus
      the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser)
      
      No moving parts
      
      Simple
      
      Low amperage draw
      
      
      Possible drawbacks:
      
      Weight (of course)
      
      Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?)
      
      Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to be
      cold)
      
      Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the seat?)
      
      
      I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with the
      Thermoelectric Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point.
      
      
      Dave Thompson
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 14, 2007
      
      I've wondered about this, remembering that 50 some years ago I saw 
      refrigerators that used a small gas flame as an energy source.  We throw 
      away a lot of heat in exhaust gases, so that could be an energy source.  
      I Googled "Servel", the manufacturer of such refrigerators and learned 
      that the refrigerant flow depends entirely on gravity.  I wonder if 
      turbulence would disrupt the refrigerant circulation?.  Anyone done any 
      research on concept?
      
      George
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Dave Thompson 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:23 PM
        Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
        Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. 
      I'm a cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V 
      / 120V / LP gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed 
      the guts and installed it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, 
      even makes ice. It takes longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it 
      still works. It draws about 2 to 3 amps on 12V.  It has an ammonia 
      cooling unit. I don't know what it weighs but I think it didn't weigh 
      too much, not nearly as much as my tiny 5000 BTU window air conditioner 
      in my shop office. It seems that one could be adapted to our use. I DO 
      wonder about the ammonia if it gets a leak. I don't know about those 
      things.  Below is a link that explains how they work. It discusses gas 
      Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the same way with a 12V 
      heater. 
      
         
      
      
      http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm&url=h
      ttp://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
      
         
      
        Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea.
      
         
      
      
      http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator
      -mrft40.htm
      
         
      
        Possible positives:
      
        Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, 
      plus the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser)
      
        No moving parts
      
        Simple
      
        Low amperage draw
      
         
      
        Possible drawbacks:
      
        Weight (of course)
      
        Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?)
      
        Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to 
      be cold)
      
        Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the 
      seat?)
      
         
      
        I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with 
      the Thermoelectric Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point.
      
         
      
        Dave Thompson
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
      8/13/2007 10:15 AM
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      is this the Trane webssite?  its obvious we are deviating and filling up my emails
      with visions of a HVAC system in a 1320lb plane cooling our feet.  CAn we
      move on to other subjects please.
      
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: George Swinford <grs-pms(at)comcast.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 12:37 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      >
      >I've wondered about this, remembering that 50 some years ago I saw refrigerators
      that used a small gas flame as an energy source.  We throw away a lot of heat
      in exhaust gases, so that could be an energy source.  I Googled "Servel", the
      manufacturer of such refrigerators and learned that the refrigerant flow depends
      entirely on gravity.  I wonder if turbulence would disrupt the refrigerant
      circulation?.  Anyone done any research on concept?
      >
      >George
      >  ----- Original Message ----- 
      >  From: Dave Thompson 
      >  To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
      >  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:23 PM
      >  Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      >
      >
      >  Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. I'm a
      cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V / 120V / LP
      gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed the guts and installed
      it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, even makes ice. It takes
      longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it still works. It draws about 2
      to 3 amps on 12V.  It has an ammonia cooling unit. I don't know what it weighs
      but I think it didn't weigh too much, not nearly as much as my tiny 5000 BTU
      window air conditioner in my shop office. It seems that one could be adapted to
      our use. I DO wonder about the ammonia if it gets a leak. I don't know about
      those things.  Below is a link that explains how they work. It discusses gas
      Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the same way with a 12V heater. 
      >
      >   
      >
      >  http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm&url=http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
      >
      >   
      >
      >  Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea.
      >
      >   
      >
      >  http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator-mrft40.htm
      >
      >   
      >
      >  Possible positives:
      >
      >  Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, plus
      the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser)
      >
      >  No moving parts
      >
      >  Simple
      >
      >  Low amperage draw
      >
      >   
      >
      >  Possible drawbacks:
      >
      >  Weight (of course)
      >
      >  Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?)
      >
      >  Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to be cold)
      >
      >  Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the seat?)
      >
      >   
      >
      >  I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with the Thermoelectric
      Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point.
      >
      >   
      >
      >  Dave Thompson
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >8/13/2007 10:15 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: 
CH701 Flap Actuator
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
      
      I wonder if anyone has successfully installed a electric flap actuator
      system in the CH701.
      
      If so, what components and from whom did you acquire them.  
      
      Any ideas on how many pounds of force it may take, especially when extending
      them in flight.
      
      George
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: CH701 Flap Actuator
      
      
      George, I am installing the a SPAL linear actuator
      from Surlus Center.  I have not completed the
      installation yet but am working on some of the
      details.
      
      SPAL also makes a controller box that will give you
      three preset positions.  I am also planning on using
      this controller setup.
      
      Unfortunately, that is all of the information I have
      at this time.
      
      Doug MacDonald
      
      
      --- George Race  wrote:
      
      > I wonder if anyone has successfully installed a
      > electric flap actuator
      > system in the CH701.
      >  
      > If so, what components and from whom did you acquire
      > them.  
      >  
      > Any ideas on how many pounds of force it may take,
      > especially when extending
      > them in flight.
      >  
      > George
      >  
      >  
      > 
      
      
             
      http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Powder coating equipment
From: 
"lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
      
      
      Someone on the CorvAircraft list posted this:
      
      Harbor freight has a sale on their powder coating system item 94244-1BHB $49.99.
      Includes gun, foot switch, filter, and two cups. Use the magazine item number not
      the one listed on line for the deep discount. Don't ask me how good or bad
      it is I have no idea.
      Joe G.
      
      -------------
      
      Does anyone on this list have experience with the HF version?
      
      --------
      Larry Winger
      Tustin, CA
      601XL/Corvair from scratch
      Control surfaces and wing spars complete
      Making wing ribs
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129348#129348
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Jean-Paul Roy <royjp(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: 
Re: CH701 Flap Actuator
      
      Hello Doug, is there any  internet link to reach that surplus center about that
      SPAL actuator?
         
        Thanks ahead
         
        Jean-Paul Roy
        CH-701 building wings
      
      MacDonald Doug  a crit :
      
      George, I am installing the a SPAL linear actuator
      from Surlus Center. I have not completed the
      installation yet but am working on some of the
      details.
      
      SPAL also makes a controller box that will give you
      three preset positions. I am also planning on using
      this controller setup.
      
      Unfortunately, that is all of the information I have
      at this time.
      
      Doug MacDonald
      
      
      Jean-Paul Roy
      royjp(at)yahoo.ca 
      Tl:(819)949-2216
      Fax:(819)949-2216
      Prire de communiquer par courriel
      car je suis souvent absent
             
      ---------------------------------
      Changez de tte et de tenue tous les jours si vous le voulez ! Volez la vedette
      sur  Yahoo! Qubec Avatars 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Cooling the cockpit
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
      
      How about some pict of the vents...   Joe N101HD   601XL
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: robert stone 
        To: Zenith list 
        Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:59 AM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Cooling the cockpit
      
      
        Members,
             When I first got my Zodiac601XL I had a real problem with heat in 
      the cockpit and found that most of it was coming from around the two 
      steering rods where they go through the firewall.  I don't understand 
      why the designer made the slots so long because the rods have very 
      little up and down movement during use.  I glued velcro on the firewall 
      on each side of the rods and used leather cut as per the drawing to 
      close the holes.  I also bought two plastic vents from Aircraft Spruce 
      and installed them in the forward lower part of the canopy and this 
      solved my heat problem.
      
        Tracy Stone
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
From: 
"leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
      
      
      Jaun,
      It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      Dan Dempsey
      
      
      > finallty plugged the panel in. 
      > 
      > Juan
      > 
      
      
      --------
      Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: CH701 Flap Actuator
From: 
"txpilot" <djg7(at)houston.rr.com>
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
      
      
      George,
      
      I am also using the SPAL linear actuator from Surplus Center.  The actuator is
      rated at 110 pounds with a 550 pound static load.  Although I don't have my plane
      flying yet, I'm confident it's plenty of force for the flaps.
      
      I decided to mount the flap motor on the front of 7F6-1 in line with the bottom
      of the flaperon control mount.  It is bolted to the Flaperon control mount with
      an AN4-20 in the same place the flaperon control lever would normally go. 
      The position is ideal because it allows easy access and maintenance to the motor
      through the rear access panel.  I ran the idea past ZAC and they suggested
      adding a doubler to reinforce the channel 7F6-1 and a gusset between 7F6-1 and
      the z bracket around the access hole.  This is to prevent twisting of the channel
      during flap operation.
      
      I'll try to send pictures and the plans I sent to ZAC, although they're not that
      great.  Good Luck on your project.
      
      
      Dan Ginty
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129387#129387
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_motor_installed_05jul07_217.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_motor_gusset_05jul07_153.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_motor_21jul07_996.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_motor_plan_343.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      
      check on the zenith website in the update section its on there.
      
      JUan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Jaun,
      >It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      >Dan Dempsey
      >
      >
      >> finallty plugged the panel in. 
      >> 
      >> Juan
      >> 
      >
      >
      >--------
      >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Jaun,
      >It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      >Dan Dempsey
      >
      >
      >> finallty plugged the panel in. 
      >> 
      >> Juan
      >> 
      >
      >
      >--------
      >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      
      with red cockpit light on
      
      JUan
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Jaun,
      >It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      >Dan Dempsey
      >
      >
      >> finallty plugged the panel in. 
      >> 
      >> Juan
      >> 
      >
      >
      >--------
      >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      where i was over weekend prior to propeller install.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Jaun,
      >It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      >Dan Dempsey
      >
      >
      >> finallty plugged the panel in. 
      >> 
      >> Juan
      >> 
      >
      >
      >--------
      >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 15, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      where i was over weekend prior to propeller install.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Jaun,
      >It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that way?
        I'd like to see your panel.
      >Dan Dempsey
      >
      >
      >> finallty plugged the panel in. 
      >> 
      >> Juan
      >> 
      >
      >
      >--------
      >Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: Forward Facing Brakes.
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      I mounted the gear legs with the flat side facing forward as per the new 
      version of the assembly guide. I mounted the brake calipers behind the 
      gear (and slightly below axle level). I'm using the new style wheel 
      pants and had to warm them up with a heat gun after installation to keep 
      the pants from dragging on the brake rotor. Didn't take much reshaping 
      but both sides were lightly riding on the rotors. All is well now. 
      Nosewheel pant is bored out for the strut, sawed into two pieces (front 
      and rear) the rejoining aluminum trips and nutplates are done and 
      rivetted. It's ready to be mounted to the brackets on the fork.
      
      I'll soon be moving the project out to the new hangar which should be 
      complete in a couple of weeks. Interesting side note..... a group of 
      cattle broke out from a neighbor at the airport Tuesday night during a 
      rainstorm. They sought out high ground which turned out to be my brand 
      new clean hangar slab. They apparently decided to hang out there and 
      have a crapping contest. My concrete now looks and smells like a 
      stockyard. Thrilling.
      
      Dred
      601XL
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Paul Mulwitz 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:27 PM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Forward Facing Brakes.
      
      
        I am currently doing battle with the main landing gear wheels and 
        brakes.  One of the interesting issues that comes up is whether to 
        mount the brake calipers forward of the wheels or aft.
      
        The instructions that come with the Grove kit indicate the calipers 
        should be mounted in front of the wheel.  However, the ZAC photo 
        guide shows them mounted behind the wheels.
      
        Any comments?
      
        Paul
        XL fuselage
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others
      working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      
      The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane
      (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take
      the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour
      training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.
      But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more
      about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub
      inspection booth in the past!)
      
      So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.
      
      Scott Thatcher
      601XL with Corvair Power
      92% complete
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: 
Re: Forward Facing Brakes.
      
      
      Shot at and missed - shit at and hit? - Jay
      
      
      "Edward Moody II"  wrote:
      
      >I mounted the gear legs with the flat side facing forward as per the new version
      of the assembly guide. I mounted the brake calipers behind the gear (and slightly
      below axle level). I'm using the new style wheel pants and had to warm
      them up with a heat gun after installation to keep the pants from dragging on
      the brake rotor. Didn't take much reshaping but both sides were lightly riding
      on the rotors. All is well now. Nosewheel pant is bored out for the strut, sawed
      into two pieces (front and rear) the rejoining aluminum trips and nutplates
      are done and rivetted. It's ready to be mounted to the brackets on the fork.
      >
      >I'll soon be moving the project out to the new hangar which should be complete
      in a couple of weeks. Interesting side note..... a group of cattle broke out
      from a neighbor at the airport Tuesday night during a rainstorm. They sought out
      high ground which turned out to be my brand new clean hangar slab. They apparently
      decided to hang out there and have a crapping contest. My concrete now
      looks and smells like a stockyard. Thrilling.
      >
      >Dred
      >601XL
      >  ----- Original Message -----
      >  From: Paul Mulwitz
      >  To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:27 PM
      >  Subject: Zenith-List: Forward Facing Brakes.
      >
      >
      >  I am currently doing battle with the main landing gear wheels and
      >  brakes.  One of the interesting issues that comes up is whether to
      >  mount the brake calipers forward of the wheels or aft.
      >
      >  The instructions that come with the Grove kit indicate the calipers
      >  should be mounted in front of the wheel.  However, the ZAC photo
      >  guide shows them mounted behind the wheels.
      >
      >  Any comments?
      >
      >  Paul
      >  XL fuselage
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
passpat(at)aol.com
      
      you the builder can get your repairmans cert in the normal events after your airworthyness
      cert is finished for this aircraft only. your buyer should still have
      any?opps available
      
      Pat
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Scott Thatcher <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net>
      Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 7:47 am
      Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
      
      
      Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others
      working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      
      The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane
      (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take
      the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour
      training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.
      But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more
      about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub
      inspection booth in the past!)
      
      So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.
      
      Scott Thatcher
      601XL with Corvair Power
      92% complete
      
      
      ________________________________________________________________________
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Juan,
      
      What did you use a a finish for the panel?
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129434#129434
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
<dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
      
      
      I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour course,
      could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go through another
      airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.
      
      Dred
      
      ---- Scott Thatcher  wrote: 
      > 
      > Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      > process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others
      > working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      > 
      > The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane
      > (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take
      > the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour
      > training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.
      > But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more
      > about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub
      > inspection booth in the past!)
      > 
      > So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.
      > 
      > Scott Thatcher
      > 601XL with Corvair Power
      > 92% complete
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Scott,
      
      As a E-AB any future owner would still be able to do any maintenance. They wouldn't
      be able to do the condition inspection. So all you gain with the E-LSA is
      the ability to pass on the ability to do the condition inspections.
      
      I really don't know how much of a plus that is and as far as what it will be in
      10-15 years is a complete unknown.
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129438#129438
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Juan,
           Good job, everything looks well laid out and handy for the pilot.  If 
      the GPS I see is a Lowrance 2000c, good choice.  I have one of those and 
      think it's the best deal on the market for the price.
      
      Tracy Stone
      Harker Heights, Tx
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:32 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      
      
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      >>From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>
      >>Sent: Aug 15, 2007 8:56 PM
      >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >>
      >>
      >>Jaun,
      >>It looks like only part of the picture loaded.  Are others seeing it that 
      >>way?    I'd like to see your panel.
      >>Dan Dempsey
      >>
      >>
      >>> finallty plugged the panel in.
      >>>
      >>> Juan
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>--------
      >>Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Read this topic online here:
      >>
      >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129381#129381
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Robert D. Taylor" <FlyDad57(at)neo.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Nope.  Can't do that.
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:27 AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
      
      
      >
      > I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour 
      > course, could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go 
      > through another airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.
      >
      > Dred
      >
      > ---- Scott Thatcher  wrote:
      >> 
      >>
      >> Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      >> process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there 
      >> others
      >> working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      >>
      >> The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my 
      >> airplane
      >> (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they 
      >> take
      >> the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour
      >> training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.
      >> But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more
      >> about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 
      >> Cub
      >> inspection booth in the past!)
      >>
      >> So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.
      >>
      >> Scott Thatcher
      >> 601XL with Corvair Power
      >> 92% complete
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
601 Belly Cargo Pod...?
From: 
"PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Has anybody has done any kind of belly pod on a 601?
      
      Seen a lot of 601's without the wing lockers.  Perhaps owners wanting some additional
      cargo capacity would find an external location between the main landing
      gear to be simpler than retrofitting wing lockers?
      
      Anybody done it?  Anybody thought of doing it?  
      
      Pro's & con's...?
      
      Patrick
      XL/Corvair
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129474#129474
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
"Dino Bortolin" <dbortol(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Powder coating equipment
      
      I read somewhere recently that the HF gun is nicer than the Eastwood, but
      that the HF powders are not very good. I can't find where I read that.
      
      Dino
      
      On 8/15/07, lwinger  wrote:
      >
      >
      > Someone on the CorvAircraft list posted this:
      >
      > Harbor freight has a sale on their powder coating system item 94244-1BHB
      > $49.99.
      > Includes gun, foot switch, filter, and two cups. Use the magazine item
      > number not the one listed on line for the deep discount. Don't ask me how
      > good or bad it is I have no idea.
      > Joe G.
      >
      > -------------
      >
      > Does anyone on this list have experience with the HF version?
      >
      > --------
      > Larry Winger
      > Tustin, CA
      > 601XL/Corvair from scratch
      > Control surfaces and wing spars complete
      > Making wing ribs
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129348#129348
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
"Dino Bortolin" <dbortol(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Powder coating equipment
      
      Oops, I spoke too soon. I found the reference I was looking for at
      http://www.nationaltbucketalliance.com/tech_info/Generalinformation/Pcoating/index.asp
      
      "The Caswell kit costs a little more, but comes with excellent customer
      support, and a powder coating forum where you can ask questions and learn to
      powder coat like a pro. You can check out the Caswell powder coating forum
      here <http://www.caswellplating.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=4>. The Eastwood
      powder guns are a bit more expensive, and are not built as well as the
      Harbor Freight or Caswell guns."
      
      
      Dino
      
      
      On 8/16/07, Dino Bortolin  wrote:
      >
      > I read somewhere recently that the HF gun is nicer than the Eastwood, but
      > that the HF powders are not very good. I can't find where I read that.
      >
      > Dino
      >
      > On 8/15/07, lwinger  wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Someone on the CorvAircraft list posted this:
      > >
      > > Harbor freight has a sale on their powder coating system item 94244-1BHB
      > > $49.99.
      > > Includes gun, foot switch, filter, and two cups. Use the magazine item
      > > number not the one listed on line for the deep discount. Don't ask me how
      > > good or bad it is I have no idea.
      > > Joe G.
      > >
      > > -------------
      > >
      > > Does anyone on this list have experience with the HF version?
      > >
      > > --------
      > > Larry Winger
      > > Tustin, CA
      > > 601XL/Corvair from scratch
      > > Control surfaces and wing spars complete
      > > Making wing ribs
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Read this topic online here:
      > >
      > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129348#129348
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
      
      
      No, that can't be done.
      
      The only way to certificate a 601XL as an E-LSA is under the "Fat 
      ultralight" exception to the rules and then only if it has never had an 
      airworthiness certificate before. After the "fat ultralight" clause 
      expires on January 31st next year, the only ways to certificate an 
      airplane as an E-LSA is if was specifically produced by the manufacturer 
      as an E-LSA kit or to convert an S-LSA to E-LSA status. The 601XL is not 
      available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor 
      Zenith plan take that step.
      
      In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is 
      allowed to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is 
      allowed to perform any and all maintenance on his plane.
      
      dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote:
      > 
      > I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour course,
      could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go through another
      airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.
      > 
      > Dred
      > 
      > ---- Scott Thatcher  wrote: 
      >>
      >> Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      >> process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others
      >> working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      >>
      >>> Scott Thatcher
      >> 601XL with Corvair Power
      >> 92% complete
      >>
      
      -- 
      Bryan Martin
      Zenith 601XL N61BM
      Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 
Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      Does it make a difference if one wants to rent their plane out to others?> 
      > In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is > allow
      ed to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is > allowe
      d to perform any and all maintenance on his plane.> 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Bryan,
      
      I called EAA and they told me exactly the same thing as your post with one 
      exception: I was told that any future deviations made to an S-LSA is a lot 
      more difficult than changes to an E-LSA.
      
      Clyde Barcus
      601 XL, Nashville, TN
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:47 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
      
      
      >
      > No, that can't be done.
      >
      > The only way to certificate a 601XL as an E-LSA is under the "Fat 
      > ultralight" exception to the rules and then only if it has never had an 
      > airworthiness certificate before. After the "fat ultralight" clause 
      > expires on January 31st next year, the only ways to certificate an 
      > airplane as an E-LSA is if was specifically produced by the manufacturer 
      > as an E-LSA kit or to convert an S-LSA to E-LSA status. The 601XL is not 
      > available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor 
      > Zenith plan take that step.
      >
      > In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is allowed 
      > to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is allowed to 
      > perform any and all maintenance on his plane.
      >
      > dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote:
      >>
      >> I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour 
      >> course, could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go 
      >> through another airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.
      >>
      >> Dred
      >>
      >> ---- Scott Thatcher  wrote:
      >>> 
      >>>
      >>> Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the
      >>> process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there 
      >>> others
      >>> working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?
      >>>
      >>>> Scott Thatcher
      >>> 601XL with Corvair Power
      >>> 92% complete
      >>>
      >
      > -- 
      > Bryan Martin
      > Zenith 601XL N61BM
      > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: 
Fw: [EAA347] Sonex accident
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
      
      
      Hi group ,this is not Zenith related however thought I would pass it on . 
      Wade Jones    South Texas
      601XL plans building
      Cont. 0200
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:22 AM
      Subject: [EAA347] Sonex accident
      
      
      > http://www.ntxe-news.com/artman/publish/article_39551.shtml
      >
      > Now, what would cause that specific kind of damage, a flat spin?
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > EAA347 Members mailing list
      > For subscription changes, contact:  Webmaster(at)eaa347.org
      > EAA347 Web site:  http://www.eaa347.org
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 16, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: panel finally done
      
      
      it is a textures Powder coat , match the other intereior pieces such as window
      sill and central panel and side curtains as well.  Looks more finished.  Powder
      coating is also scratch proof when done right.  
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
      >Sent: Aug 16, 2007 9:25 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: panel finally done
      >
      >
      >Juan,
      >
      >What did you use a a finish for the panel?
      >
      >--------
      >W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      >601XL Under Construction
      >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129434#129434
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      Is it just me or does the last photo, with the flower seem a in bad taste to anyone
      else?
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129572#129572
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ljkyle" <ljkyle(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      no
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
      Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 8:26 AM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
      
      
      
      >
      > Is it just me or does the last photo, with the flower seem a in bad taste
      to anyone else?
      >
      > --------
      > W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      > 601XL Under Construction
      > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129572#129572
      >
      >
      > -- 
      9:48 AM
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
From: 
"Papa Foxtrot" <papa.foxtrot1955(at)gmail.com>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      Tough for me to tell for sure due to distance and debris - but I'm guessing it
      was a Jabiru powerplant??
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129582#129582
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Load in pod NOT same as wing lockers!
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      Folks:
      
      Please note that adding weight to your plane in a belly pod is 
      absolutely NOT the same as adding in the wing lockers.  
      
      For the same delta in gross, weight in the wings *reduces* the wing 
      bending moments while weight in the middle *increases* them.  That is 
      why for most aircraft with tip tanks, the weight of the fuel and tank at 
      the tip is a "freebie" on loading the plane.   Moving that same weight 
      to the middle will reduce the allowable G envelope accordingly.
      
      Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
      N601GE (reserved)
      601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      OK it was just me then. Maybe it was journalism background kicked in. It was kind
      of out of place for a news story.
      
      Papa Foxtrot, What makes you think it was Jab powered? Isn't the VW mod that Sonex
      sells the engine of choice for them?
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129594#129594
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"R.P." <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
      Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 8:09 AM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
      
      
      > 
      >
      > OK it was just me then. Maybe it was journalism background kicked in. It 
      > was kind of out of place for a news story.
      >
      > Papa Foxtrot, What makes you think it was Jab powered? Isn't the VW mod 
      > that Sonex sells the engine of choice for them?
      >
      
       You can see the crankcase and starter quite clearly in the pic.
      Definitly a Jabiru. 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
From: 
"Papa Foxtrot" <papa.foxtrot1955(at)gmail.com>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      Gig Giacona wrote:
      > Papa Foxtrot, What makes you think it was Jab powered? Isn't the VW mod that
      Sonex sells the engine of choice for them?
      
      >From http://www.sonexaircraft.com/aircraft/sonex.html:
      
      
      > The three recommended powerplants include the 2180cc Volkswagon, 2200 Jabiru,
      and 3300 Jabiru.
      
      Well, I tho't I counted three jugs on one side, but prob'ly just went cross-eyed
      trying to figure it out.  Looking again - maybe it was a vdub...
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129603#129603
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
From: 
Michael Hilderbrand <m_hilderbrand(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident
      
      Yes! =0A =0AMichael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.c
      om=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@s
      uddenlink.net>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, August 17, 2
      007 8:26:09 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: [EAA347] Sonex accident=0A=0A=0A
      >=0A=0AIs it just me or does the last photo, with the flower seem a in bad 
      taste to anyone else?=0A=0A--------=0AW.R. "Gig" Giacona=0A601XL 
      Under Construction=0ASee my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR=0A=0A=0A
      =0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
      ==============
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Clearance between fiberglass & muffler pipe
From: 
"kkinney" <kkinney(at)fuse.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      I can't find my Bingelis books to save my life.
      
      Does anyone know the recommended clearance between the muffler pipe and the fiberglass
      cowl?
      
      Regards,
      Kevin Kinney
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129618#129618
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: 
Re: Clearance between fiberglass & muffler pipe
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      In "Firewall Forward" he says allow at least 1" clearance to cowling.
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "kkinney" <kkinney(at)fuse.net>
      Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 12:29 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Clearance between fiberglass & muffler pipe
      
      
      >
      > I can't find my Bingelis books to save my life.
      >
      > Does anyone know the recommended clearance between the muffler pipe and 
      > the fiberglass cowl?
      >
      > Regards,
      > Kevin Kinney
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129618#129618
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Don Merritt <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
            I read,  "the 601XL is not       available as an approved E-LSA kit a
      nd as far as I know, neither AMD nor       Zenith plan take that step." Thi
      s was from a statement by a Brian. If this is true, why do all the websites
       insist that this is an lsa compatible plane? I just want to make sure sinc
      e I am building a 601xl with jab or Rotax.
            I am guessing that the paperwork for the two types, e-lsa and e-ab ar
      e different. A little clarification please?
      
      Don
      N601NV- Reserved
      601xl- First wing complete
      Laredo, Tx
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      Discover the new Windows Vista
      E
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Don Merritt <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 
Renting an experimental aircraft
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
         Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. You ca
      n't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read the regs, 
      I can't even let my friend use my plane to get his license, even if I don't
       charge him rent. I think I can use my own personal experimental to get my 
      license but that expires 2010. Anyone read the reg differently, I hope I am
       wrong.
      Don
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
      http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Radiator hose for Stratus
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      you can have it   tell me where to send it.....    Joe N101HD 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Bill Steer" <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:45 AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus
      
      
      > 
      > Thanks very much for the offer, Joe.  I'm going to try to pick one up at 
      > my local parts store today.  If that fails, I'll be in touch about 
      > yours.  I'm on the verge of first engine start and am anxious to get the 
      > cooling system finished.
      > 
      > Bill
      > 
      > 
      > Southern Reflections wrote:
      >> 
      >>
      >> I've got one you want it ? I don't know what it's worth...    Joe N101HD
      >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Steer" <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
      >> To: "Zenith_list" 
      >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:17 PM
      >> Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus
      >>
      >>
      >>>
      >>> Does anybody happen to know either the hose number or the car it came 
      >>> from for the radiator hose supplied by Zenith in their FWF kit for 
      >>> Stratus Subaru?  It's the 1" x 1 1/4" hose with about a 90-degree 
      >>> curve on one end and a z-shaped curve at the other.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks very much.
      >>>
      >>> Bill
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      > 
      > 
      > 
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      He was right and the ads were also right. A plane does not need to be certified
      as a E-LSA or S-LSA to be legal for someone to fly under the rules for LSA. In
      fact there are a lot more aircraft that can be legally flown by an LSA pilot
      than there are E-LSA and S-LSA aircraft.
      
      There are two very seperate parts of the rules that make up what we all call the
      LSA rules. The first is about pilots, the second about aircraft. 
      
      If you during the registration process screw up and say your 601XL has a max gross
      weight of 1400 lbs. or cruises faster than 120 knots it will NEVER be legal
      to be flown by someone operating under the LSA rules.
      
      
      mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.CO wrote:
      > I read,  "the 601XL is not       available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far
      as I know, neither AMD nor 
      >      Zenith plan take that step." This was from a statement by a Brian. If this
      is true, why do all the websites insist that this is an lsa compatible plane?
      I just want to make sure since I am building a 601xl with jab or Rotax.
      >        I am guessing that the paperwork for the two types, e-lsa and e-ab are
      different. A little clarification please?
      >   
      >  Don
      >  N601NV- Reserved
      >  601xl- First wing complete
      >  Laredo, Tx
      >  
      >  
      
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129637#129637
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Renting an experimental aircraft
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      I talked with the folks at EAA a couple of weeks ago and it is true you 
      can hire an instructor to teach you to fly or to become current (You 
      must be the builder) but no one else, and that does not expire. The EAA 
      site list over 600 instructors for a Sport Pilot Rating listed by state, 
      it also has a column beside their name indicating whether they are 
      willing to teach in an experimental aircraft. I have already spoke to a 
      couple of them and they were reasonably priced at $40.00 per hour. In 
      regards to your other question, I don't know the answer for sure but I 
      thought I read somewhere you can get transitional training only.
      
      Clyde Barcus
      601XL, Nashville, TN
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Don Merritt 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:32 PM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Renting an experimental aircraft
      
      
           Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. 
      You can't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read 
      the regs, I can't even let my friend use my plane to get his license, 
      even if I don't charge him rent. I think I can use my own personal 
      experimental to get my license but that expires 2010. Anyone read the 
      reg differently, I hope I am wrong.
        Don
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. 
      Check it out! 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Renting an experimental aircraft
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      We can't just say experimental anymore because of the whole E-LSA/E-AB thing. Well
      we never really could because there are lots of different experimental subclasses.
      
      As far as E-LSA they can be rented now until what ever that magic date is. Once
      that date comes you would have to get a waiver to rent it.
      
      As for E-AB there is nothing in the rules to stop you from training in your own
      aircraft. Most of the E-AB helicopter industry is based on the ability to fly
      their kits after you solo but before you take the check ride.
      
      If I'm wrong somebody tell me because I've already lined up an instructor to give
      me my IFR training in my 601XL after it's built and the hours are flown off.
      And be specific because neither he or I could find anything in the rules to
      say we couldn't.
      
      
      mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.CO wrote:
      > Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. You can't rent
      an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read the regs, I can't
      even let my friend use my plane to get his license, even if I don't charge him
      rent. I think I can use my own personal experimental to get my license but that
      expires 2010. Anyone read the reg differently, I hope I am wrong.
      >  Don
      >  
      
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129639#129639
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Renting an experimental aircraft
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      I forgot the website for the EAA list of instructors for Sport Pilot 
      training, it is: http://www.sportpilot.org/instructors/
      
      Clyde Barcus
      601 XL, Nashville, TN
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Don Merritt 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:32 PM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Renting an experimental aircraft
      
      
           Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. 
      You can't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read 
      the regs, I can't even let my friend use my plane to get his license, 
      even if I don't charge him rent. I think I can use my own personal 
      experimental to get my license but that expires 2010. Anyone read the 
      reg differently, I hope I am wrong.
        Don
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. 
      Check it out! 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
From: 
"John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: Renting an experimental aircraft
      
      There is a system put in place by the FAA and run by the EAA that lets the
      owner of an EAB rent their plane for compensation specifically for the
      purpose of transition training.
      
      The exemption can not be used for primary training.
      
      Lots of info on the EAA's website ( you must be a member to access ) :
      http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/exemptions/training_faq.asp
      
      On 8/17/07, Gig Giacona  wrote:
      >
      > wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
      >
      > We can't just say experimental anymore because of the whole E-LSA/E-AB
      > thing. Well we never really could because there are lots of different
      > experimental subclasses.
      >
      > As far as E-LSA they can be rented now until what ever that magic date is.
      > Once that date comes you would have to get a waiver to rent it.
      >
      > As for E-AB there is nothing in the rules to stop you from training in
      > your own aircraft. Most of the E-AB helicopter industry is based on the
      > ability to fly their kits after you solo but before you take the check ride.
      >
      > If I'm wrong somebody tell me because I've already lined up an instructor
      > to give me my IFR training in my 601XL after it's built and the hours are
      > flown off. And be specific because neither he or I could find anything in
      > the rules to say we couldn't.
      >
      >
      > mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.CO wrote:
      > > Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. You
      > can't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read the regs,
      > I can't even let my friend use my plane to get his license, even if I don't
      > charge him rent. I think I can use my own personal experimental to get my
      > license but that expires 2010. Anyone read the reg differently, I hope I am
      > wrong.
      > >  Don
      > >
      >
      >
      > --------
      > W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      > 601XL Under Construction
      > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129639#129639
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      John Marzulli
      http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
      
      "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
      harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
      -Airplane The Movie
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Bruce Johnson" <bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: 
Renting an experimental aircraft
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      Don,
      
      That's silly.... you absolutely may lend your friend your ex-ab plane to get
      his/her training in.... Under a special EAA exemption, you may also rent
      your experimental plane for the express purpose of transition training (as
      mentioned in a previous post).
      
      In your parallel post, your are also a bit confused on the LSA regs... Not
      surprising since they are a bit confusing. They will be "slightly" less
      confusing at the end January.....
      
      Up till then you MAY register your 601 as an E-LSA under the
      "grandfathering" regulations, although the true intent of that regulation
      was to register 2-seat and otherwise "FAT" Ultralights that could not meet
      the AB regs. The original language even includes the words
      "ultralight-Like", but I suppose that would be too hard to enforce.
      
      After January, the only newly registered E-LSA's will come from
      manufacturers who choose to offer the planes that way and/or owners who
      choose to "downgrade" their S-LSA's.
      
      Just to confuse you some more, no matter how your 601 is
      registered/airworthied, it WILLbe an LSA.
      
      -Bruce Johnson
      Plans-Building Sonex #593 near San Antonio, TX
      Left Wing and Tail Feathers - DONE; Working on right wing.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Merritt
      Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:33 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Renting an experimental aircraft
      
      
       Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and education. You
      can't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the way I have read the regs,
      I can't even let my friend use my plane to get his license, even if I don't
      charge him rent. I think I can use my own personal experimental to get my
      license but that expires 2010. Anyone read the reg differently, I hope I am
      wrong.
      Don
      
      
         _____
      
      Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. HYPERLINK
      "http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx"Check it out!
      
      
      "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
      igator?Zenith-List
      "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
      
      
      1:46 PM
      
      
      1:46 PM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Riveting to  nylon?
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      Just asking for opinions - When riveting 1/8" nylon to the aluminum 
      structure, is it better put the shop head on the metal side or on the 
      nylon side?  If it weren't for the "head forming" puller, I would always 
      put the head on the nylon side.  Perhaps best to use other rivets? or to 
      countersink the nylon and pull it with a flat-head puller?
      
      Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
      N601GE (reserved)
      601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
From: 
Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Subject: 
Re: Renting an experimental aircraft
      
      I think there is one instance where you can rent an E-AB.  You must  
      apply to the FAA and be very specific, but you can rent for  
      transition training to someone who is building a plane like yours.   
      You can't rent for primary train, to advance a rating or anything  
      else, only transition training.   I'm assuming that for something  
      like a ch601,  the FAA wouldn't allow it since the same plane can be  
      rented as an SLSA.
      
      The 2010 date is for ELSA, a completely different beast from an E- 
      AB.  Ron Wanttaja's book "Kit Airplane Construction" has an excellent  
      explanation of the the different categories of Experimentals.  Look  
      in the library or your local Boarders.
      
      Ron
      
      
      On Aug 17, 2007, at 4:32 PM, Don Merritt wrote:
      
      >    Experimental aircraft are for the pilots enjoyment and  
      > education. You can't rent an experimental aircraft period. As the  
      > way I have read the regs, I can't even let my friend use my plane  
      > to get his license, even if I don't charge him rent. I think I can  
      > use my own personal experimental to get my license but that expires  
      > 2010. Anyone read the reg differently, I hope I am wrong.
      > Don
      >
      >
      > Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com.  
      > Check it out!
      > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_- 
      > ============================================================ _- 
      > forums.matronics.com_- 
      > ===========================================================
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Riveting to nylon?
From: 
"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
      
      
      I put the shop head against metal
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129667#129667
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Riveting to  nylon?
      
      
      You could also put a washer on the rivet before you pull it.
      
      
      In a message dated 8/17/2007 9:09:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
      a.s.elliott(at)cox.net writes:
      
      Just asking for opinions - When riveting 1/8" nylon to the aluminum  
      structure, is it better put the shop head on the metal side or on the nylon  side?
      If 
      it weren't for the "head forming" puller, I would always put  the head on the 
      nylon side.  Perhaps best to use other rivets? or to  countersink the nylon 
      and pull it with a flat-head puller?
      
      Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
      N601GE (reserved)
      601XL/TD/QB, Corvair,  building...
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
From: 
Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Riveting to  nylon?
      
      
      Second the opinion of using a washer, also you
      probably need to drill the hole in the nylon a little
      oversize, so the expansion of the shank of the rivit
      does not split the nylon.  
      
      Terry
      
      --- "Dr. Andrew Elliott"  wrote:
      
      > Just asking for opinions - When riveting 1/8" nylon
      > to the aluminum structure, is it better put the shop
      > head on the metal side or on the nylon side?  If it
      > weren't for the "head forming" puller, I would
      > always put the head on the nylon side.  Perhaps best
      > to use other rivets? or to countersink the nylon and
      > pull it with a flat-head puller?
      > 
      > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
      > N601GE (reserved)
      > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
      
      
             
      http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 17, 2007
From: 
Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: 
Re: Riveting to  nylon?
      
      
      Hi Andy,
      
      I have used A5 rivets with the nylon fairleads without regard to the 
      direction of the rivets, and they seem to work just fine.  I choose 
      the direction of the rivet by the location of the part rather than 
      the type of material.
      
      Paul
      XL fuselage
      
      At 06:06 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote:
      >Just asking for opinions - When riveting 1/8" nylon to the aluminum 
      >structure, is it better put the shop head on the metal side or on 
      >the nylon side?  If it weren't for the "head forming" puller, I 
      >would always put the head on the nylon side.  Perhaps best to use 
      >other rivets? or to countersink the nylon and pull it with a flat-head puller?
      >
      >Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
      >N601GE (reserved)
      >601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Load in pod NOT same as wing lockers!
From: 
"PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 18, 2007
      
      
      Wouldn't the overall wing strength be compromised more by cutting the top skins
      for wing lockers than it would be if the top skins were left intact and 40 lbs
      were hung in the area someplace near the CG between the main gear and the firewall?
      
      I thought the wing derived significant strength from it's skin?  
      
      My wings are complete, except for final riveting of the top skins.  I have the
      wing locker option, but have not cut the skins at this time.  
      
      The idea of leaving the skins intact for reasons of strength, and exploring external
      cargo storage options is an attractive idea.
      
      Patrick
      XL/Corvair
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129718#129718
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Load in pod NOT same as wing lockers!
From: 
"leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: 
Aug 18, 2007
      
      
      Patrick,
      I'm not an aeronautical engineer but part of my thinking on this issue was that
      the cut outs are mostly effecting the negative G strenght of wing since they
      are on top.  I'm going with with the wing lockers.
      Dan
      
      
      > Wouldn't the overall wing strength be compromised more by cutting the top skins
      for wing lockers than it would be if the top skins were left intact and 40
      lbs were hung in the area someplace near the CG between the main gear and the
      firewall? 
      > 
      > I thought the wing derived significant strength from it's skin? 
      > 
      > My wings are complete, except for final riveting of the top skins. I have the
      wing locker option, but have not cut the skins at this time. 
      > 
      > The idea of leaving the skins intact for reasons of strength, and exploring external
      cargo storage options is an attractive idea. 
      > 
      > Patrick 
      > XL/Corvair
      
      
      --------
      Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129720#129720
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Date: 
Aug 18, 2007
      
      
      How about aV W aircond. ?, it's on a very small eng. cooling a very small 
      car.. Joe N101HD  do not arcive
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:58 AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      
      
      >
      > is this the Trane webssite?  its obvious we are deviating and filling up 
      > my emails with visions of a HVAC system in a 1320lb plane cooling our 
      > feet.  CAn we move on to other subjects please.
      >
      >
      > Juan
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      >>From: George Swinford <grs-pms(at)comcast.net>
      >>Sent: Aug 15, 2007 12:37 AM
      >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      >>
      >>I've wondered about this, remembering that 50 some years ago I saw 
      >>refrigerators that used a small gas flame as an energy source.  We throw 
      >>away a lot of heat in exhaust gases, so that could be an energy source.  I 
      >>Googled "Servel", the manufacturer of such refrigerators and learned that 
      >>the refrigerant flow depends entirely on gravity.  I wonder if turbulence 
      >>would disrupt the refrigerant circulation?.  Anyone done any research on 
      >>concept?
      >>
      >>George
      >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
      >>  From: Dave Thompson
      >>  To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >>  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:23 PM
      >>  Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
      >>
      >>
      >>  Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. 
      >> I'm a cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V / 
      >> 120V / LP gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed 
      >> the guts and installed it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, 
      >> even makes ice. It takes longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it 
      >> still works. It draws about 2 to 3 amps on 12V.  It has an ammonia 
      >> cooling unit. I don't know what it weighs but I think it didn't weigh too 
      >> much, not nearly as much as my tiny 5000 BTU window air conditioner in my 
      >> shop office. It seems that one could be adapted to our use. I DO wonder 
      >> about the ammonia if it gets a leak. I don't know about those things. 
      >> Below is a link that explains how they work. It discusses gas 
      >> Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the same way with a 12V 
      >> heater.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> 
      >> http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm&url=http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>  Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> 
      >> http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator-mrft40.htm
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>  Possible positives:
      >>
      >>  Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, 
      >> plus the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser)
      >>
      >>  No moving parts
      >>
      >>  Simple
      >>
      >>  Low amperage draw
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>  Possible drawbacks:
      >>
      >>  Weight (of course)
      >>
      >>  Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?)
      >>
      >>  Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to be 
      >> cold)
      >>
      >>  Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the seat?)
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>  I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with 
      >> the Thermoelectric Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>  Dave Thompson
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>
      >>8/13/2007 10:15 AM
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
801 for sale
Date: 
Aug 18, 2007
      
      
      Completed 801 for sale
      
      For more information please visit
      
      http://www.can-zacaviation.com/zenith__stol__ch801.htm
      
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      president@can-zacaviation.com
      www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      
      8/18/2007 3:48 PM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
T throttle design
From: 
"chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      OK Gang
      I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where
      is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans  ?? From photos is there
      a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of the
      engine cowl?  [Question]  [Question] 
      Chris
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129787#129787
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T throttle design
From: 
"leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      Chris,
      My XL plans show the entire assembly with detalis  of parts with a friction lock.
      It's  drawing 6-E-5. dated 06/03 titled DUAL THROTTLE CHOKE.
      Dan
      
      
      > I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where
      is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From photos is there
      a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of
      the engine cowl?   
      > Chris
      > 
      
      
      --------
      Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129793#129793
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T throttle design
From: 
"chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      Thats funny
      I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that. On the drawing
      list I have Powerplant  and then 4 engine mounts
      I have no 6-E??Engine section  Its not an option or a separately available?? 
      
      What gives???
      
      I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone scan in the
      drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ??
      
      thanks 
      Chris [Question]
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: 
Re: T throttle design
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      They may have taken it out because not too many people like it or you just
      got shorted on your drawings. I tried it for awhile and it has a tendancy to
      creep toward idle. Anyway here's the link
      http://www.zenithair.com/cad/6-E-5.dwf If you don't already have it, you
      will have to download a dwf viewer http://www.autodesk.com/expressviewer
      
      Randy Stout
      San Antonio TX
      www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
      n282rs at satx.rr.com
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      > chris Sinfield
      > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:56 AM
      > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design
      > 
      > 
      > --> 
      > 
      > Thats funny
      > I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of 
      > that. On the drawing list I have Powerplant  and then 4 
      > engine mounts I have no 6-E??Engine section  Its not an 
      > option or a separately available?? 
      > 
      > What gives???
      > 
      > I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can 
      > someone scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask 
      > the factory for ??
      > 
      > thanks 
      > Chris [Question]
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > Read this topic online here:
      > 
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Tom Flanagan" <flanagan(at)nycap.rr.com>
Subject: 
early 701 to 1025 gross 
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher
      gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ? 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: 
Canopy flashing
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher 
      is there a neater way  than the ball peen hammer for this chore .   
      Thanks                                Wade Jones    South Texas 
      601XL plans building
      Cont. 0200
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
early 701 to 1025 gross 
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      Almost 30 changes, including remaking your spars and a good portion of
      your fuselage behind the seats. It can be done , however it may be
      faster and easier to build a new plane
      
      Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
      "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
      "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
      -----Original Message-----
       Subject: Zenith-List: early 701 to 1025 gross 
      
      What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher
      gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ? 
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: early 701 to 1025 gross
From: 
"ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      There are many, many, many revisions deep inside the 701 structure
       that can't be changed!
      Sorry about that.
      As far as the FAA goes I would think you could up the GW with the proper paper
      work. Several older planes have had that done. Now I must say, that is only a
      guess as, I don't know for sure.
      
      --------
      Ron Lee
      Tucson, Arizona
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129835#129835
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
      
      
      Wade,
      The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place 
      the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side
      against a smooth block of steel.  Cold rolled steel is usually very 
      smooth. Also it is very controllable.  Put a template outline
      on a piece of poster board that you can work to.  Then start from the 
      center edge working each way to get it to radius.
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif
      You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the 
      surface will be smooth.
      
      Practice on a short piece to get the best technique.
      
      good luck,
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      wade jones wrote:
      > Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher 
      > is there a neater way  than the ball peen hammer for this chore .   
      > Thanks                                Wade Jones    South Texas
      > 601XL plans building
      > Cont. 0200
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: 
Re: T throttle design
      
      
      The way this all comes out on my drawings (or lack of drawings) is 
      the throttle is part of the fire wall forward package rather than the 
      airframe design.  My basic drawings don't include that feature at 
      all, but the FWF package I bought from UsJabiru includes a dual 
      throttle option.
      
      Paul
      XL fuselage
      FWF still unpacked
      
      At 05:56 AM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
      
      >Thats funny
      >I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that. 
      >On the drawing list I have Powerplant  and then 4 engine mounts
      >I have no 6-E??Engine section  Its not an option or a separately available??
      >
      >What gives???
      >
      >I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone 
      >scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ??
      >
      >thanks
      >Chris [Question]
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Increase in gross weight for old 701
      
      
      Subject:    early 701 to 1025 gross
      From:    Tom Flanagan (flanagan(at)nycap.rr.com)
      Date:    Sun Aug 19 - 8:23 AM
      
      What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the 
      higher  gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ?   
      
      Tom.
      You can change the gross weight to what ever you want.  You will need to
      change the load factor in your POH.  I have the old kit and have made
      most of the changes to the SP, but not all.  What I have done is, using
      Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
      weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7.  Rather than the +4 and -2.
      This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
      Mark S.
      701/912ULS
      
      
             
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      Wade
      
      I also used 1/2" felt weather strip as a trim piece on top of the inner 
      canopy flashing which will cover any defects nicely.
      It comes in pre-cut rolls for a couple dollars at the hardware store.
      
      Gary Ray
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: wade jones 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:07 PM
        Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing
      
      
        Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher 
      is there a neater way  than the ball peen hammer for this chore .   
      Thanks                                Wade Jones    South Texas 
        601XL plans building
        Cont. 0200
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
      8/17/07 5:43 PM
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: 
Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701
      
      
      Hi Mark,
      
      I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the 
      load factors.  It seems to me there might be other impacts to 
      changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads.  For 
      instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling.
      
      I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1 
      flight test program after making the gross weight change.  This would 
      examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of 
      the newly limited plane.
      
      Paul
      XL fuselage
      
      
      At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
      >You can change the gross weight to what ever you want.  You will need to
      >change the load factor in your POH.  I have the old kit and have made
      >most of the changes to the SP, but not all.  What I have done is, using
      >Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
      >weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7.  Rather than the +4 and -2.
      >This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
      >Mark S.
      >701/912ULS
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
      
      
      a powder coat application with a ping texture will also do it well if you are uncomfortable
      with the skills to hammer it.  It covers mistakes well also, trust
      me I know. and had plenty of them./;
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
      >Sent: Aug 19, 2007 2:40 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing
      >
      >
      >Wade,
      >The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place 
      >the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side
      >against a smooth block of steel.  Cold rolled steel is usually very 
      >smooth. Also it is very controllable.  Put a template outline
      >on a piece of poster board that you can work to.  Then start from the 
      >center edge working each way to get it to radius.
      >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif
      >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif
      >You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the 
      >surface will be smooth.
      >
      >Practice on a short piece to get the best technique.
      >
      >good luck,
      >
      >Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      >
      >wade jones wrote:
      >> Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher 
      >> is there a neater way  than the ball peen hammer for this chore .   
      >> Thanks                                Wade Jones    South Texas
      >> 601XL plans building
      >> Cont. 0200
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
keith.maloney(at)comcast.net
Subject: 
Scratch Built 601 HD kit for sale, absolutly has to go.
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      FOR SALE: Scratch Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license).
      For pictures see:  http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea
      I am selling this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations
      or you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it.  The bottom
      dollar is $1000 and I am located in Fort Collins, Colorado.  I have about
      $9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would
      break my heart to salvage it.  If the final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider
      delivering (lower 48 only) and setting it up for free.  If the price exceeds
      $8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder with
      accessories.  This kit is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped
      by a third party, so this is not a reasonable option.
      Partially complete 601 scratch kit.  Approximately 90% of sheet metal fabrication
      is complete and the quality is good.  The fuselage/center section, rudder and
      horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together.  All the
      wing ribs and spar for the outboard wings have been fabricated.  The only assembly
      that has been riveted together is the center section wing spar solid rivets
      have been shot.  I believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required
      to finish the airframe (including wing skins) is included.  This complete kit
      comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid), AN hardware, bungees, additional
      tooling and enough clecos to almost build the plane without rivets .  The
      wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light mount and
      tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included.  The original
      factory issued plans, documentation and license number are included.
      Whats not included, nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although
      the fuel pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or
      electronics.  The welded parts included in this kit (landing gear, rudder pedals
      and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes only and I make no claims that
      they are flight worthy, mainly because I am not a certified or experienced welder.
      The kit quality is good and all hand built by myself.  I have four year experience
      in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural Repair specialist (that means
      I have shot about a gazilion rivets and manufactured thousands  of Air Frame
      parts).  I also have over six years experience as a sheet metal developer for
      Martin Marietta hand forming parts for aerospace platforms.  So I did not approach
      this project without knowing what I was doing.  Anyone is welcome to come
      and see this project in person by appointment.  Or if you have any questions
      or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail me and I will respond
      as soon as I can.  Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer.
      
      Keith Maloney
      Keith.maloney(at)comcast.net
      Fort Collins, CO. 80525
      
      

      

      
FOR SALE: Scratch
      Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license).
      
For pictures see:  http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea
      
I am selling
      this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations or
      you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it.  The bottom dollar is $1000 and I am located in Fort
      Collins, Colorado.  I have about
      $9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would break
      my heart to salvage it.  If the
      final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider delivering (lower 48 only) and
      setting it up for free.  If the
      price exceeds $8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder
      with accessories.  This kit
      is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped by a third party, so
      this is not a reasonable option.
      
Partially complete
      601 scratch kit.  Approximately
      90% of sheet metal fabrication is complete and the quality is good.  The fuselage/center section, rudder and
      horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together.  All the wing ribs and spar for the
      outboard wings have been fabricated.  The
      only assembly that has been riveted together is the center section wing
      spar solid rivets have been shot.  I
      believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required to finish the
      airframe (including wing skins) is included. 
      This complete kit comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid),
      AN hardware, bungees, additional tooling and enough
        cleco
      s to almost build the plane without rivets . 
      The wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light
      mount and tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included.  The original factory issued
      plans, documentation and license number are included.
      
Whats not included,
      nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although the fuel
      pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or electronics.  The welded parts included in this
      kit (landing gear, rudder pedals and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes
      only and I make no claims that they are flight worthy, mainly because I am
      not a certified or experienced welder.
      
The kit quality
      is good and all hand built by myself. 
      I have four year experience in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural
      Repair specialist (that means I have shot about a gazilion rivets and
      manufactured thousands  of Air Frame
      parts).  I also have over six
      years experience as a sheet metal developer for Martin Marietta hand forming parts
      for aerospace platforms.  So
      I did not approach this project without knowing what I was doing.  Anyone is welcome to come and see this project
      in person by appointment.  Or if
      you have any questions or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail
      me and I will respond as soon as I can.  Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer.
      
 
      
Keith Maloney
      
Keith.maloney(at)comcast.net
      
Fort Collins,
      CO. 80525
      
      

      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      And there is always they option to not do the flashing at all.
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129907#129907
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Polishing 6061: print shadow?
From: 
"messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      Hey!
      
      I have some water stained aluminum on one side of a sheet and the other side looks
      just fine. I know the stain is just cosmetic and will scotchbrite it a fair
      amount before using it. The unblemished side happens to be the same side as
      the mill printing. Will this mill printing come out completely during the polishing
      proceedure, or will there be a feint shadow? If it will come out nicely,
      then I will put it on the outside and polish it.
      
      Thanks,
      Dan
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129911#129911
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Alan Lovchik <alovchik(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 
Sc
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Fellow builders,
      I recently purchased a completed 601XL tail kit and wing kit that has been 
      started from a local builder who gave up his project due to divorce.  After
       these parts are done, I plan on finishing the fuselage by scratch building
       it, but was not sure what the longest bend I would have to fabricate with 
      a brake on the fuse section?  Wasn't sure if I needed to build one of those
       8 ft brakes or not?
      
      Alan
      601XL w/Corvair?
      _________________________________________________________________
      Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
      http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
From: 
Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701
      
      
      Hey Paul,
      
      The CG stays the same and so does the CG limits.  This is the same aircraft, the
      only changes in the SP are some thicker attach points and gussets, so that it
      can handle the higher gross weight with the same G's as the old model.
      
      Its like some aircraft that have one gross weight for normal flying and another
      for aerobatic flight.
      
      If I fly with a gross weight of 960 lbs I will still be able to pull +4 and -2
      G's.  Also if went on a diet and lost a hundred pounds and went up with the fuel
      tanks half full I could pull +5 G's.  And still only put the same stress on
      the aircraft as in the original configuration.
      
      My aircraft will have the same load on it at 1100 lbs gross at +3.5 and -1.7, as
      it will at 960 lbs gross at +4 and -2 G's.
      
      The calculations for all of this is on Zenith's drawings, dated 06/2001, drawing
      7-G-3.  A list of all of the updated parts for the SP are on drawing 7-G-2.
      
      
      Not much of a penalty of G's for a good increase in gross weight.
      
      Mark S.
      701 912ULS
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
      Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:54:26 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701
      
      
      Hi Mark,
      
      I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the 
      load factors.  It seems to me there might be other impacts to 
      changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads.  For 
      instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling.
      
      I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1 
      flight test program after making the gross weight change.  This would 
      examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of 
      the newly limited plane.
      
      Paul
      XL fuselage
      
      
      At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
      >You can change the gross weight to what ever you want.  You will need to
      >change the load factor in your POH.  I have the old kit and have made
      >most of the changes to the SP, but not all.  What I have done is, using
      >Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
      >weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7.  Rather than the +4 and -2.
      >This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
      >Mark S.
      >701/912ULS
      
      
             
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
601 XL layout sheets question
From: 
"Jugle" <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>
Date: 
Aug 19, 2007
      
      
      Please tell if I'm missing something, but the PDF layout sheets available at http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm have me a little confused.
      
      On each sheet there is a small table titled "Colour Code". It appears to list the
      material thicknesses, then in the next column is a list of colours. I don't
      understand how this relates to the layout sheets, as each sheet has a thickness
      stated at the top of the page. Can someone please clarify?
      
      Thanks, Glenn
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129916#129916
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Polishing 6061: print shadow?
      
      The mill marks are printed with an easily dissolved ink - acetone or MEK will remove
      it. After removal there will be a very faint image but it should disappear
      if polished. What about putting the "water stained" surface out? I will still
      polish up and that way it will allow you to keep track on possible corrosion
      if it is more than staining...
      
      
      Hey!
      
      I have some water stained aluminum on one side of a sheet and the other side looks
      just fine. I know the stain is just cosmetic and will scotchbrite it a fair
      amount before using it. The unblemished side happens to be the same side as
      the mill printing. Will this mill printing come out completely during the polishing
      proceedure, or will there be a feint shadow? If it will come out nicely,
      then I will put it on the outside and polish it.
      
      Thanks,
      Dan
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129911#129911
      
      
        Dave Downey
        Harleysville (SE) PA
        100 HP Corvair
      
      
             
      ---------------------------------
      Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: 
Re: Polishing 6061: print shadow?
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      I have had very good results removing the factory printing on 6061.
      
      I do two things.  First I use denatured alcohol to remove all of the
      printing ink.  Next I use "Orange Glo" cleaner to remove any remaining
      stain.  What I then see is that the "shine" where the ink was is brighter
      than the surrounding area.  This I think is what you are calling a print
      shadow.  A quick touch up with a scotch bright fine pad quickly makes the
      area all look alike.
      
      Incidentally, the "Orange Glo" cleaner is petroleum based, and it does leave
      a slightly oily residue on the skin.  Actually makes it look quite nice.
      Proper cleaning before painting will be necessary, as should always be done
      anyway.  
      
      The "Orange Glo" cleaner also works great at removing those hand and finger
      prints from the skin, where you have placed your sweaty palm or fingers.  It
      usually shows up as a dull, slightly white area, after a few days or so.
      
      Hope this helps.
      
      George
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Polishing 6061: print ghost?
From: 
"DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Dan,
      
      I started polishing my 601 a feew weeks ago and the printing comes off easily with
      either alcohol or mineral spirits.  Sometimes I have still seen a little bit
      of ghost of the print but it polished away easily.
      
      --------
      David Gallagher
      601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      fueslage almost done, engine next.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129924#129924
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
601 XL layout sheets question
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Glenn, the layouts are a helpful item in saving waste, however you will
      need to print them off and reference each part to the plans in order to
      make sure that they are up to date and correct. The 601XL has changed a
      lot over the years to harmonize the kit with the SLSA model. Both planes
      are now constructed the same. 
      Print off the sheets, go through the plans and ensure that each part is
      listed in it's proper area and sheet. Other builders have spent the time
      to provide the layout for you, however as in everything it is your
      responsibility as a plans builder to go through your plans and ensure
      your list and layout are correct.
      
      As for the colour coding on the sheet layout, I never tried to
      understand it. It wasn't important when I double checked with my plans.
      Though I was already passed the state of needing the layout.
      
      Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jugle
      Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:33 AM
      Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL layout sheets question
      
      
      Please tell if I'm missing something, but the PDF layout sheets
      available at http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm have me a little
      confused.
      
      On each sheet there is a small table titled "Colour Code". It appears to
      list the material thicknesses, then in the next column is a list of
      colours. I don't understand how this relates to the layout sheets, as
      each sheet has a thickness stated at the top of the page. Can someone
      please clarify?
      
      Thanks, Glenn
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129916#129916
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Canopy Flashing
From: 
"GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      HI THERE,  
      JUST A BIT OF BACKGROUND FIRST, I AM KIT BUILDING A 601XL, STARTED IN 2002 AND
      AM PRESENTLY DEALING WITH THE CANOPY.  PLANS SAY TO RIVET THE FLASHING ON THE
      INSIDE, BUT WITH THE CABLES INSIDE OF THESE,  WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE SCREWS?
       I HAVE ALREADY DRILLED MINE FOR AN4 RIVETS SO WHAT SIZE SCREWS TO USE?
      
      THANKS
      GLENN
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129930#129930
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL layout sheets question
From: 
"lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      You're right.  The legend is confusing.  All the information on thickness that
      you need is at the top of each sheet.  However, they also chose to color code
      the thickness by using a different color for the outline of each aluminum sheet
      and piece.  
      
      Additionally, they wanted to indicate where the parts would be used.  The first
      four colors correspond to parts of the plan set.  T = Tail, B = Body, W = Wings
      and C = Canopy.  That information is provided by the color used to label each
      part.
      
      Soooo, if you are on page 5 which is 0.040 thick, the color used to outline the
      sheet and each part is green.  Inside each part, the color varies based on location
      of the part.  So, the long parts at the bottom (wing spar webs) are outlined
      in green to show thickness and the labels are written in magenta to indicate
      they are for the wings.
      
      Hope that helps.  I had the same confusion.
      
      --------
      Larry Winger
      Tustin, CA
      601XL/Corvair from scratch
      Control surfaces and wing spars complete
      Finishing misc wing parts
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129935#129935
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
<dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy Flashing
      
      
      Just add access hatches over the cable end adjustment devices. That should suffice.
      
      Dred
      
      ---- GLJSOJ1  wrote: 
      > 
      > HI THERE,  
      > JUST A BIT OF BACKGROUND FIRST, I AM KIT BUILDING A 601XL, STARTED IN 2002 AND
      AM PRESENTLY DEALING WITH THE CANOPY.  PLANS SAY TO RIVET THE FLASHING ON THE
      INSIDE, BUT WITH THE CABLES INSIDE OF THESE,  WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE SCREWS?
       I HAVE ALREADY DRILLED MINE FOR AN4 RIVETS SO WHAT SIZE SCREWS TO USE?
      > 
      > THANKS
      > GLENN
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > Read this topic online here:
      > 
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129930#129930
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Polishing 6061: print ghost?
From: 
"messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Thanks, Dave  :D 
      
      Yeah, it seems to me that the printing has come off before on earlier parts like
      you said. I did remember seeing a ghost at one point, but any of those pieces
      are all primed over now. It's nice to know the polishing removes it.
      
      Take care,
      Dan
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129948#129948
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy Flashing
      
      
      just rivet it.  it is quicker to tap rivets out than unscrew the thirty or so holes.
      you will hradly access it.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: dredmoody(at)cox.net
      >Sent: Aug 20, 2007 10:15 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Flashing
      >
      >
      >Just add access hatches over the cable end adjustment devices. That should suffice.
      >
      >Dred
      >
      >---- GLJSOJ1  wrote: 
      >> 
      >> HI THERE,  
      >> JUST A BIT OF BACKGROUND FIRST, I AM KIT BUILDING A 601XL, STARTED IN 2002 AND
      AM PRESENTLY DEALING WITH THE CANOPY.  PLANS SAY TO RIVET THE FLASHING ON THE
      INSIDE, BUT WITH THE CABLES INSIDE OF THESE,  WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE
      SCREWS?   I HAVE ALREADY DRILLED MINE FOR AN4 RIVETS SO WHAT SIZE SCREWS TO USE?
      >> 
      >> THANKS
      >> GLENN
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> Read this topic online here:
      >> 
      >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129930#129930
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >> 
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Panel equipment
      
      
      no I did not paint it myself, I am not smart or skilled enough for that,  I  would
      end up with more between my teeth than on the plane.  the paint job was froma
      car painter in plant city.  The powder coating is from  Sarasota avionics,
      and other part powder coated from American Powder coating in Tampa.
      
      Another source I will begin using is my Father's FAA repair station in OpaLocka.
      We just bought the business together and it has a great powder coating equipment.
      We will be doing poweder caoting and TIG and MIG welds, plasma coatings etc...
      for small planes as well, for a charge, plus shipping.
      for more info, Goggle Britt Metals,Inc.
      
      I live in St. Petersburg FLA and the plane will be at Albert WHitted airport.
      
      Great cushion guy if anyone neds one.
      
      Respectfully chomping at the bit to fly,
      
      Juan Vega
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Steve Smith <sasmithmd(at)verizon.net>
      >Sent: Aug 19, 2007 2:24 PM
      >To: Juan Vega 
      >Subject: Re: Panel equipment
      >
      >Hey Juan, thanks for the info!  Great looking panel and plane!  Did you 
      >do the paint job yourself, too?  What paint system did you use?  It 
      >looks great!!!  Where do you fly out of?
      >
      >cheers,
      >steve
      >
      >Juan Vega wrote:
      >> >From left is Ipod connection to listen to tunes. then you have a Master switch
      next to a 40 amp Alt FUse. DYnon D 100, below is the sitches for avionics,
      lights etc. next going right is the Becker Radio on Top, with transponder below.
      to the right is the GPS connected to the Dynon 100.  below is the throttle
      aileron and elev trim, choke and carb heat.  No mixture since it is a Bing altitude
      compensating Carb.  next right is the Dynon 120 EMS for all enstrunent
      functions.  DYnon 100 and 120 flip flop as well.  Below is the fuses for all instruments.
      Lastly is a cig lighter adaptor for accessories as well as behin
      the pilot.
      >> Jacks are behind pilot and copilot, alond with alternator blow seat and fire
      extingisher behind copilot.
      >>
      >> Juan
      >>
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >>   
      >>> From: Steve Smith <sasmithmd(at)verizon.net>
      >>> Sent: Aug 16, 2007 7:31 AM
      >>> To: Juan Vega 
      >>> Subject: Panel equipment
      >>>
      >>> Hello Juan,
      >>> Great looking panel!  I've been lurking this builders site for years 
      >>> trying to figure out what to build; when I retire in a year or two, I'll 
      >>> get to it in earnest!  Can you please describe, from left to right, the 
      >>> equipment in your panel for me?  I'm curious as to the various 
      >>> components, as I'm still used to flying the regular six-pack arrangement.
      >>>
      >>> thanks in advance,
      >>> steve
      >>>     
      >>
      >>
      >>   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy Flashing
      
      
      Hi Glenn,
      Good question, and if I were using screws, I'd use AN526 machine screws 
      6-32 thread.  A screw like that used on the canopy tubes is probably not 
      a good idea as
      they have the material thickness and washers etc supporting them. I'd 
      personally be inclined to keep the AN4 rivets and forget the screws.
      The rivets you'd normally use will hold bows and frames better and the 
      cables you install will likely never need adjustment, but drilling out a 
      couple dozen rivets is probably no more effort than trying to tap and 
      align and install screws.  The bows rely on the security of these rivets 
      in flight and I wouldn't be comfortable with screws for that.
      
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/insideangle.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframefwd.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/latchlockslot.gif
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      
      GLJSOJ1 wrote:
      >
      > HI THERE,  
      > JUST A BIT OF BACKGROUND FIRST, I AM KIT BUILDING A 601XL, STARTED IN 2002 AND
      AM PRESENTLY DEALING WITH THE CANOPY.  PLANS SAY TO RIVET THE FLASHING ON THE
      INSIDE, BUT WITH THE CABLES INSIDE OF THESE,  WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE SCREWS?
       I HAVE ALREADY DRILLED MINE FOR AN4 RIVETS SO WHAT SIZE SCREWS TO USE?
      >
      > THANKS
      > GLENN
      >
      >
      >   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place 
      the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side
      against a smooth block of steel.  Cold rolled steel is usually very 
      smooth. 
      
      +++ Larry is correct, just takes practice.  If you can beg/borrow/buy a 
      small hand planishing hammer (check Brown or Avery) to replace the 
      ball-peen hammer, you will find many uses for it where you want to 
      massage a piece into a mild curvature.
      
      +++ If you have a table saw the cast iron top is ideal for this work as 
      it is smooth, of good size, and usually at a comfortable working level.  
      Much of the sheet metal shaping on my a/c was done with a large spoon 
      (about 60 mm by 90 mm) liberated from the kitchen and the top of the old 
      Craftsman table saw.  After four years the wife finally noticed it was 
      missing.
      
      +++ As always, practice, start slowly.
      
      jeff
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy Flashing
      
      
      as allways, i look at larry's work and marvel at the quality of it.  SOme day when
      I grow up....
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
      >Sent: Aug 20, 2007 10:51 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Flashing
      >
      >
      >Hi Glenn,
      >Good question, and if I were using screws, I'd use AN526 machine screws 
      >6-32 thread.  A screw like that used on the canopy tubes is probably not 
      >a good idea as
      >they have the material thickness and washers etc supporting them. I'd 
      >personally be inclined to keep the AN4 rivets and forget the screws.
      >The rivets you'd normally use will hold bows and frames better and the 
      >cables you install will likely never need adjustment, but drilling out a 
      >couple dozen rivets is probably no more effort than trying to tap and 
      >align and install screws.  The bows rely on the security of these rivets 
      >in flight and I wouldn't be comfortable with screws for that.
      >
      >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/insideangle.gif
      >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframefwd.gif
      >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/latchlockslot.gif
      >
      >Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      >
      >
      >GLJSOJ1 wrote:
      >>
      >> HI THERE,  
      >> JUST A BIT OF BACKGROUND FIRST, I AM KIT BUILDING A 601XL, STARTED IN 2002 AND
      AM PRESENTLY DEALING WITH THE CANOPY.  PLANS SAY TO RIVET THE FLASHING ON THE
      INSIDE, BUT WITH THE CABLES INSIDE OF THESE,  WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO USE
      SCREWS?   I HAVE ALREADY DRILLED MINE FOR AN4 RIVETS SO WHAT SIZE SCREWS TO USE?
      >>
      >> THANKS
      >> GLENN
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>   
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: 
701 Elevator Authority
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      Here's a new way to improve elevator authority on the 701.  
      http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php?id=44
      
      Tailwinds always,
      JG
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
Subject: 
Jabiru Engine Seminar
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Jabiru USA will again be holding one of our popular Engine Installation,
      Maintenance, and Rebuild Seminars on October 12th thru Oct 14th.  Class
      limited to 10 students.    Visit www.usjabiru.com for details.
      
      Pete Krotje
      Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
weight & balance with one scale?
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      This is probably a Rookie question and is only for discussion as I have 
      access to three scales, but if one wanted, could you correctly weigh an 
      airplane with just one scale if you put scale height blocks under the 
      other wheels as you moved the scale from wheel to wheel?  First glance 
      is that it would weigh correctly as long as the other wheels are at the 
      constant height.  Not very convenient though.
      
      Regards,
      
      Randy, Las Vegas
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
<dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
      
      
      As far as I know, Randy, you are correct.
      
      Dred
      
      ---- "Randy L. Thwing"  wrote: 
      could you correctly weigh an airplane with just one scale if you put scale height
      blocks under the other wheels as you moved the scale from wheel to wheel?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"JG" <vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      Yes, definitely can use just one scale, but don't just lift the aircraft 
      to change from block to scale - the landing gear will flex and put a 
      side load on the scale as the weight comes on it.  Just need  more 
      blocks so that you can roll the aircraft on and off the scale.
      
      Tailwinds always,
      JG
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Randy L. Thwing 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:37 AM
        Subject: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale?
      
      
        This is probably a Rookie question and is only for discussion as I 
      have access to three scales, but if one wanted, could you correctly 
      weigh an airplane with just one scale if you put scale height blocks 
      under the other wheels as you moved the scale from wheel to wheel?  
      First glance is that it would weigh correctly as long as the other 
      wheels are at the constant height.  Not very convenient though.
      
        Regards,
      
        Randy, Las Vegas
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
      
      
      Randy,
      You'd be better to have 4 scales and rotate one out with each wheel to 
      check the accuracy of each as you go.  I found four 300 lb scales at 
      $9.00 each
      on sale and then made a lever-lift that picks up each wheel with little 
      effort as scales are slid under and out.  You need a 1/4 inch thick 6 x 
      6 of aluminum to spread the
      weight on each scale, but it works and is convenient. Takes about 15 
      minutes to do a W & B. The back link drops out for removal.
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/winghandling/full/scaleinsert.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/winghandling/full/scaleplaced.gif
      http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/winghandling/full/scalew&b.gif
      .good luck,
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      Randy L. Thwing wrote:
      > This is probably a Rookie question and is only for discussion as I 
      > have access to three scales, but if one wanted, could you correctly 
      > weigh an airplane with just one scale if you put scale height blocks 
      > under the other wheels as you moved the scale from wheel to wheel?  
      > First glance is that it would weigh correctly as long as the other 
      > wheels are at the constant height.  Not very convenient though.
      >  
      > Regards,
      >  
      > Randy, Las Vegas
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 601 XL layout sheets question
From: 
"Jugle" <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Thanks Mark and Larry,
      
      My main concern is to compile quantites so I can start ordering some sheets. I
      thought those guides would assist in getting total number of each thickness required...
      which they will, but I have been going through the plans working it
      out anyway.
      
      Thanks again,
      Glenn.
      
      --------
      Glenn Andressen
      601XL- just started.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130027#130027
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
From: 
"leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      One small detail worth mentioning.  If you are also determining ballance, the plane
      ought to be in the horizontal flight attitude with the top longeron level
      when weighing.  Then you can calculate the moments to the datum with no problem.
      
      Dan Dempsey[/quote]
      
      --------
      Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130034#130034
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: 
Do you really need a fuel pump on a 701
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      Is there any reason to consider adding an electric fuel pump to a 701?
      
      With high wing tanks, and the on board mechanical pump on the Jabiru 2200A,
      it would seem to be unnecessary.
      
      Your comments and suggestion appreciated.
      
      George
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Chat to start in a few minutes
From: 
"PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Say's Forbidden.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130037#130037
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: 
Re: Chat to start in a few minutes
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      Every time I try to get on it says:
      
      Forbidden
      
      You don't have permission to access /deluser.php on this server.
      Apache Server at chat.iahu.ca Port 80
      
      Maybe next week,
      
      George CH701
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: 
Battery question
      
      
      I am installing my battery this week and have a dumb question.  Since I 
      have a gel battery with no vent, do I need to install the battery box vents?
      
      Dan Wilde
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Battery question
      
      
      nope, its s sealed battery.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>
      >Sent: Aug 20, 2007 8:33 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Battery question
      >
      >
      >I am installing my battery this week and have a dumb question.  Since I 
      >have a gel battery with no vent, do I need to install the battery box vents?
      >
      >Dan Wilde
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Canopy flashing
From: 
"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Wade,
      
      I would use a finishing hammer or dress the ballpeen to a polished soft spot surface.
      What I mean by soft spot is the amount of crown on the hammer face, think
      very large radius.
      
      Below are some pictures of the handiest tool I have.  It is a 1" X 4" x 8"  tool
      welded to a 1" x 4" post that clamps in the vice.  The left end has a snout
      shape and a sharp radius along the back edge.  The front edge has a .125 radius
      and a 7/8" hole and radiused corner on the right front.  It is hardened and
      it is used often because it is flat and tough.
      
      I used it and a soft spot hammer to stretch some angle for the "Frame bottom edge
      of wing tip", no marks on the side against the wing skin.
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130057#130057
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/toolpost_003_256.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/toolpost_002_197.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/toolpost_001_153.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 
Another 701
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      I needed a new project so I just bought a part of an unfinished 701 kit 
      consisting of the tail and wings.  I am going to build the entire plane 
      strictly for sale upon completion.  I will need a few things, like 
      fuselage parts, instruments, engine, prop, landing gear, etc.  Any of 
      you know of any bargains, e-mail me @ lrm(at)skyhawg.com.  
      
      This is going to be a plain Jane quality build.  Nothing fancy, except 
      it will definitely have sliding seats.  I have no idea of what I am 
      going to ask, but it will be reasonable.  So if any one thinks they 
      might be interested in about 6 or 7 months, e-mail me and I will put you 
      on the list.  When it's done and ready for the DAR I will contact 
      everyone on the list. I plan on being done in the spring.
      
      I will also start a new section on my site about the progress of this 
      new project.  Check it at your convenience and thank you. 
      Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Battery question
      
      
      In a message dated 8/20/2007 8:35:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
      dwilde(at)clearwire.net writes:
      
      -->  Zenith-List message posted by: Dan 
      
      I am  installing my battery this week and have a dumb question.  Since I  
      have a gel battery with no vent, do I need to install the battery box  vents?
      
      Dan Wilde
      
      
      No.
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
Another 701
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      Larry, if you have taken on a new 701 that must mean that your Skyhawg
      is flying. I must have missed the announcement, I try to watch this list
      closely, but from time to time I just get to busy. Especially with
      Arlington, Oshkosh , UPAC convention and building a 601QBK for a
      customer, I have hardly had time to watch this list for recient events.
      
       So how is the Harley working on your plane? Do you have some #=92s to
      share yet? I am curious on how you like those Pegastol wings now that
      your in the air and have tried them out on a 701, can you report on
      their value with actual data now, or is it still too early in the
      testing phase?  
      
      You have put a lot of time into your 701, I have been watching your
      progress ever since you had the Sub 2.5 L in it. Congrats on completion
      and the fortitude to start another project so soon. It lends a lot of
      credibility to a builder working on their second plane while flying
      their first plane.
      
      Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
      "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
      "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
      Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:27 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Another 701
      
      I needed a new project so I just bought a part of an unfinished 701 kit
      consisting of the tail and wings.  I am going to build the entire plane
      strictly for sale upon completion.  I will need a few things, like
      fuselage parts, instruments, engine, prop, landing gear, etc.  Any of
      you know of any bargains, e-mail me @ HYPERLINK
      "mailto:lrm(at)skyhawg.com"lrm(at)skyhawg.com.  
      
      This is going to be a plain Jane quality build.  Nothing fancy, except
      it will definitely have sliding seats.  I have no idea of what I am
      going to ask, but it will be reasonable.  So if any one thinks they
      might be interested in about 6 or 7 months, e-mail me and I will put you
      on the list.  When it's done and ready for the DAR I will contact
      everyone on the list. I plan on being done in the spring.
      
      I will also start a new section on my site about the progress of this
      new project.  Check it at your convenience and thank you. 
      Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
      
      
      "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
      /Navigator?Zenith-List
      "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
Increase in gross weight for old 701
Date: 
Aug 20, 2007
      
      
      Let me add more to this, I have just been working on a 14yr old 701 and
      bringing portions of it up to today's standard. I will be lowering the G
      rating to get it to register at 1100 lbs. Nevertheless, I have also been
      updating all parts to the newest set of plans for peace of mind. Though
      there is about 30 different changes for the present day 701SP I have
      found about 10 parts in the tail alone that are now different
      thicknesses, this required the complete disassembly of the horizontal
      tail and elevator. None of these parts are part of the SP upgrade, they
      are just changes over the years. I have also pulled the whole firewall
      and changed every part, just to be in line with the new drawings. So if
      your considering changing the gross, pull out your calipers and go over
      most of your plane and see if you really want to change the gross. I
      know I will not do this again, but alas, I am too far into it now to
      stop, plus I don't give up very easily( wife say's stubborn, I just say
      determined). Next on my list is to gut the whole fuselage behind the
      seats and remove the metal cage in the cabin. These are part of the SP
      update. I have already removed the header tank and panel. Next is the
      wings and new spars with wing fuel tanks. 
      
      Next time I will build a kit and move the motor and panel over, it will
      be a lot faster, and a hell of a lot cheaper if I was counting my time.
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      president@can-zacaviation.com
      www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
      Sherman
      Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:12 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701
      
      
      
      Subject:    early 701 to 1025 gross
      From:    Tom Flanagan (flanagan(at)nycap.rr.com)
      Date:    Sun Aug 19 - 8:23 AM
      
      What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the 
      higher  gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered
      ?   
      
      Tom.
      You can change the gross weight to what ever you want.  You will need to
      change the load factor in your POH.  I have the old kit and have made
      most of the changes to the SP, but not all.  What I have done is, using
      Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
      weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7.  Rather than the +4 and -2.
      This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
      Mark S.
      701/912ULS
      
      
             
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
      8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Do you really need a fuel pump on a 701
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      George,  I dont have any pump on mine. Because the 2200 has the carb down low there
      is enough head for the specified  0.75 psi ? requirement and I did fuel flow
      checks including tail down measured flow into the carb float chamber was all
      above requirements.
      
      This meant I could remove the engine pump and eliminate another source of trouble.
      
      A rotax would be different because the carbs are up high
      
      Ralph
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130083#130083
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 
Re: Another 701
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      No, I am still fighting the vibration problem.  Just got my prop back 
      from Culver.  They said it was way out of balance.  Hopeful we will spin 
      it up any day now.  The weather isn't cooperating. 
      I always have to have something to do.  I'm retired and if I sit on my 
      rear end I would probably not have to worry about projects long, if you 
      get my meaning.  Plus I picked the kit up pretty reasonably.  So why 
      not.  Larry
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: ZodieRocket 
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:18 PM
        Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Another 701
      
      
        Larry, if you have taken on a new 701 that must mean that your Skyhawg 
      is flying. I must have missed the announcement, I try to watch this list 
      closely, but from time to time I just get to busy. Especially with 
      Arlington, Oshkosh , UPAC convention and building a 601QBK for a 
      customer, I have hardly had time to watch this list for recient events.
      
         
      
         So how is the Harley working on your plane? Do you have some #=92s to 
      share yet? I am curious on how you like those Pegastol wings now that 
      your in the air and have tried them out on a 701, can you report on 
      their value with actual data now, or is it still too early in the 
      testing phase?  
      
         
      
        You have put a lot of time into your 701, I have been watching your 
      progress ever since you had the Sub 2.5 L in it. Congrats on completion 
      and the fortitude to start another project so soon. It lends a lot of 
      credibility to a builder working on their second plane while flying 
      their first plane.
      
         
      
        Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      
        Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      
        www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
      
         
      
        -----Original Message-----
        From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM
        Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:27 PM
        To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Zenith-List: Another 701
      
         
      
        I needed a new project so I just bought a part of an unfinished 701 
      kit consisting of the tail and wings.  I am going to build the entire 
      plane strictly for sale upon completion.  I will need a few things, like 
      fuselage parts, instruments, engine, prop, landing gear, etc.  Any of 
      you know of any bargains, e-mail me @ lrm(at)skyhawg.com.  
      
         
      
        This is going to be a plain Jane quality build.  Nothing fancy, except 
      it will definitely have sliding seats.  I have no idea of what I am 
      going to ask, but it will be reasonable.  So if any one thinks they 
      might be interested in about 6 or 7 months, e-mail me and I will put you 
      on the list.  When it's done and ready for the DAR I will contact 
      everyone on the list. I plan on being done in the spring.
      
         
      
        I will also start a new section on my site about the progress of this 
      new project.  Check it at your convenience and thank you. 
      
        Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
      
                  - The Zenith-List Email Forum -   --> 
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List              - NEW 
      MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -   --> http://forums.matronics.com 
        8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
        8/19/2007 7:27 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 
alumunum
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      Ok, I know it's been here before, but I am too lazy to search the 
      archives. Where are the best prices on aluminum, rivets, etc.?  Thanks,
      
      
      Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      Not in Experimental land.
      
      
      planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:
      > just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use anymore?
      > 
      
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130106#130106
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re: Battery question
      
      
      Dan,
      The vents you mention are still needed because the battery has a limited 
      life and will require replacement.  The next person replacing the battery
      may not choose the gel type on the next go round and problems with not 
      having vents may become an issue. 
      In any case, I'd not hesitate to put in correct vents. 
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      Dan wrote:
      >
      > I am installing my battery this week and have a dumb question.  Since 
      > I have a gel battery with no vent, do I need to install the battery 
      > box vents?
      >
      > Dan Wilde
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Battery question
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      Since he is the builder all he has to do is put in his POH that the aircraft requires
      a sealed, ventless battery.
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130118#130118
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Battery question
      
      
      good to know, i am putting together my POH and have a sealed batery.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
      >Sent: Aug 21, 2007 12:22 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Battery question
      >
      >
      >Since he is the builder all he has to do is put in his POH that the aircraft requires
      a sealed, ventless battery.
      >
      >--------
      >W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      >601XL Under Construction
      >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130118#130118
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: 
New DVD for 601XL Quick-build builders
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      HomebuiltHELP has just released a new DVD entitled: 601XL Quick-build 
      Tips & Techniques.
      
      The target audience is the builder of the 601XL QUICK-BUILD kit. It 
      covers and demonstrates construction tasks such as landing and nose gear 
      installation, building wing lockers, landing lights, and more.  Its goal 
      is to help make the quickbuild option an even easier, faster way to get 
      flying! 
      
      More information and pictures are available at 
      http://homebuilthelp.com/601XLQB.htm
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
MaxNr(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
Subject: 
Re:weight & balance with one scale?
      
      I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average out) would be adequate. Sure, 
      it takes a little longer. But how often are you going to do it? I would like 
      to know if a 300 pound scale would be enough? What are the empty weights that 
      builders are seeing on the MLG? The nose wheel? The price of scales go up for 
      a 400 pound scale. Those analog spring scales may be inaccurate near their 
      upper limits. I am going digital for the accuracy. I will try to borrow or rent
      
      because I'm cheap. Medical scales go up to 800 pounds. Alternatively: I weighed
      
      the tongue weight of my RV trailer using the mfg.'s published method. Bridge 
      a solid fixed point and the scale with a 2 by 6 plank. Put the tongue on the 
      plank at a 2/3 point. I doubled the reading and I found that the tongue weighed
      
      MORE OR LESS 700 pounds. I used a 300 pound bathroom scale. That's a whole 
      lot of trouble for three wheels though.
      
      Bob from Pace,FL  601XL/Lyc
      
      
      **************************************
       Get a sneak 
      peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: 
New Chat Room For Airplane Builders
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      Hi All:
      
      For some unknown reason our normal Monday evening chat room seems to have
      quit working.  I have tried several times today and I still cannot bring it
      up.
      
      Sooooooooooooooo..............  This afternoon I threw together a new public
      chat room!
      
      Would like to try it out this evening at 8:00 Eastern Time and would
      appreciate it if some of you could stop by and try it out.  We can go back
      to the normal Monday evening schedule, but need to make sure the chat room
      works as it should.
      
      You will be ask to Enter a Username.  That is what will appear ahead of all
      your postings to the chat room.
      
      The address is:  http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat
      
      Will be there this evening at 8:00.  Hope some of you can make it as well.
      
      George - Kit Building CH-701 - N73EX (reserved)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
"Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: 
Re: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders
      
      ya ... tnx a bunch George, my server had a bit of a melt down and been
      causing me some grief ... will be up for monday if we prefer to use the old
      one ... either ways good for me
      
      On 8/21/07, George Race  wrote:
      >
      >  Hi All:
      >
      > For some unknown reason our normal Monday evening chat room seems to have
      > quit working.  I have tried several times today and I still cannot bring it
      > up.
      >
      > Sooooooooooooooo..............  This afternoon I threw together a new
      > public chat room!
      >
      > Would like to try it out this evening at 8:00 Eastern Time and would
      > appreciate it if some of you could stop by and try it out.  We can go back
      > to the normal Monday evening schedule, but need to make sure the chat room
      > works as it should.
      >
      > You will be ask to Enter a Username.  That is what will appear ahead of
      > all your postings to the chat room.
      >
      > The address is:  http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat
      >
      > Will be there this evening at 8:00.  Hope some of you can make it as well.
      >
      > George - Kit Building CH-701 - N73EX (reserved)
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
701 landing issues
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      I am on schedule with setting  up the shop and ordering materials to  
      begin scratch building a 701 first week of September.  In the  
      meantime I have read and heard about handling problems at low  
      approach speeds.  The announcement  yesterday from Stol Speed re  
      putting VGs on the elevator  (together with removing the slats and  
      VGs on the wing) achieving excellent results brought the issue up  
      again.  I am tempted to order the VGs today.  Here is the question-- 
      how do you all feel about eliminating the slats and adding the VGs.    
      Thanks,  Jerry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
"Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: 
chat
      
      back up and raring to go
      http://chat.iahu.ca
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: 
Re:weight & balance with one scale?
      
      
      Bryan,
      My weight empty with oil and coolant is 265, 264 mains and 231 for the nose.
      I found my 300 lb scales are accurate +/-1 lb so long as you place a 1/4 
      inch aluminum plate under each tire for weight distribution.
      
      Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      
      Bryan Martin wrote:
      > 
      >
      > I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way you can keep the 
      > readings near midscale where it's more accurate and you don't have to 
      > worry about overloading the scales. Just put a plank between the two 
      > scales with the tire on the plank and add the two readings. Calibrate 
      > them first with known weights.
      >
      > MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:
      >> I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average out) would be 
      >> adequate. Sure, it takes a little longer. But how often are you going 
      >> to do it? I would like to know if a 300 pound scale would be enough? 
      >> What are the empty weights that builders are seeing on the MLG? The 
      >> nose wheel? The 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
From: 
Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re:weight & balance with one scale?
      
      
      I seem to remember when studying for the A&P test that
      the plate should be greased so as the weight was
      placed on the scale that it would slide and relieve
      any sideways stress.  That was a long time ago and in
      a galazy far far away.
      
      Terry
      
      --- LarryMcFarland  wrote:
      
      > 
      > 
      > Bryan,
      > My weight empty with oil and coolant is 265, 264
      > mains and 231 for the nose.
      > I found my 300 lb scales are accurate +/-1 lb so
      > long as you place a 1/4 
      > inch aluminum plate under each tire for weight
      > distribution.
      > 
      > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
      > 
      > Bryan Martin wrote:
      > > 
      > >
      > > I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way
      > you can keep the 
      > > readings near midscale where it's more accurate
      > and you don't have to 
      > > worry about overloading the scales. Just put a
      > plank between the two 
      > > scales with the tire on the plank and add the two
      > readings. Calibrate 
      > > them first with known weights.
      > >
      > > MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:
      > >> I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average
      > out) would be 
      > >> adequate. Sure, it takes a little longer. But how
      > often are you going 
      > >> to do it? I would like to know if a 300 pound
      > scale would be enough? 
      > >> What are the empty weights that builders are
      > seeing on the MLG? The 
      > >> nose wheel? The 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      >
      > browse
      > Subscriptions page,
      > FAQ,
      > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
      >
      > Web Forums!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
             
      Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
      photos & more. 
      http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: alumunum
From: 
"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      Best prices on Aluminum used to be Yarde, it might still be.
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130199#130199
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: 
Re: 701 landing issues
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Jerry Hey wrote:
      
      > .  Here is the question--how do you all feel about eliminating the  
      > slats and adding the VGs.   Thanks,  Jerry
      
      My 701 will have the VG's and no slats.  Cruise speed will increase,  
      fuel burn will be lower and landing the same.  VG's worked great on  
      our 601 HDS and expect the same with the 701.
      
      Stan
      N701VG (Reserved)
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: 
weight & balance with one scale?
Date: 
Aug 21, 2007
      
      
      Randy,
      I used one bathroom scale that I had calibrated using a scale in the Dr's
      office.  I made paltforms for the wheels with no scale.  Be sure to level
      the airplane both fore and aft and side to side every time you take a
      reading.  I used a hose and clear tubing to make a level to level the
      airplane fore and aft.  I set a 4 foot level on the top and boosted the low
      end to get it level so I would have a good reference for the measurements.
      I also set it across the fuselage top for side to side level.  I repeated
      the measurements to be sure nothing changed.
      Chuck D.
      N701TX
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 701 landing issues
From: 
"jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Jerry 701s have been flying for over 20 years and I've never heard of one that
      was constructed within the design parameters, that had any of the "handling problems"
      you speak of.
      
      The local Savanah here has had the front of the wing cut off and put the new leading
      edge and VG kit on. They report it goes a lot faster - but if you are building
      a 701 that aspect will not be your primary goal?
      
      I guess with the 701 its easy to try both ways and cut the slat brackets off later
      if thats what you like, as some have done, in the experimental category.
      
      Ralph
      
      --------
      Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130219#130219
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: 701 landing issues
      
      
      as we discussed 7 months ago.  VGs and slats do 2 separate things,  Slats allow
      for an AOA of 15% or greater in pitch, VGs perform their task at less than 15%
      AOA on pitch up.  the wing with VGs will stall at a lower speed at 15% AOA and
      under.  The slat does its majic when you crank the stick back early to get
      into G.eFFCT. for early take off.  Crank too hard with a VG only and you will,
      not might, but will stall.  All rules are different for planes that fly faster
      than 200 knts and higher than 18,000.  
      You will get verbal diahria from many of us on this subject, the above is the black
      and white basic version.  best just to read up on it.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
      >Sent: Aug 21, 2007 11:33 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues
      >
      >
      >On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Jerry Hey wrote:
      >
      >> .  Here is the question--how do you all feel about eliminating the  
      >> slats and adding the VGs.   Thanks,  Jerry
      >
      >My 701 will have the VG's and no slats.  Cruise speed will increase,  
      >fuel burn will be lower and landing the same.  VG's worked great on  
      >our 601 HDS and expect the same with the 701.
      >
      >Stan
      >N701VG (Reserved)
      >>
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: 701 landing issues
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Thanks,  I have searched archives with no luck.  I know the thread  
      exists but so far I have not found the right search words.    Jerry
      
      
      On Aug 22, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Juan Vega wrote:
      
      > 
      >
      > as we discussed 7 months ago.  VGs and slats do 2 separate things,   
      > Slats allow for an AOA of 15% or greater in pitch, VGs perform  
      > their task at less than 15% AOA on pitch up.  the wing with VGs  
      > will stall at a lower speed at 15% AOA and under.  The slat does  
      > its majic when you crank the stick back early to get into G.eFFCT.  
      > for early take off.  Crank too hard with a VG only and you will,  
      > not might, but will stall.  All rules are different for planes that  
      > fly faster than 200 knts and higher than 18,000.
      > You will get verbal diahria from many of us on this subject, the  
      > above is the black and white basic version.  best just to read up  
      > on it.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
      >> Sent: Aug 21, 2007 11:33 PM
      >> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues
      >>
      >> 
      >>
      >>
      >> On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Jerry Hey wrote:
      >>
      >>> .  Here is the question--how do you all feel about eliminating the
      >>> slats and adding the VGs.   Thanks,  Jerry
      >>
      >> My 701 will have the VG's and no slats.  Cruise speed will increase,
      >> fuel burn will be lower and landing the same.  VG's worked great on
      >> our 601 HDS and expect the same with the 701.
      >>
      >> Stan
      >> N701VG (Reserved)
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
"Paul Tipton" <PTIPTON(at)swmail.sw.org>
Subject: 
Re: 701 landing issues
      
      FYI: I have no landing "problems" at any speed, no VGs and I have slats
      (150 hrs).  Does any plane handle differently at different speeds?  Yes.
       It is NOT a Cessna, NOT a Piper, NOT a Zenith 601, it is a Zenith 701. 
      If you change what a Zenith 701 is, it is something different.  For
      better or worse?  Everyone will have a different opinion.  I'm still
      learning to fly my Zenith 701 and love it.  No plans to "improve"
      anything.
      321PT
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      Paul has pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is your plane and
      you may do whatever you wish to it ( for better or Worse). If you fly
      your STOL aircraft like a Cessna then adding the VG=92s will increase
      performance. Of this there is very little doubt. However if you learn to
      fly your STOL aircraft as it was designed and meant to be flown you will
      actually realize the performance of the slats and be able to perform and
      exceed the stated #=92s for the aircraft. Most of us over the years have
      seen the 701 perform at the Airshow in the ultralight field. Either with
      the Rotax 582 or 912. This plane greedily took off in under 50 ft, I
      have personally seen a 5 ft departure, no magic was performed here, the
      plane is fully capable of safely performing STOL operations. IT is a
      matter of learning, can VG=92s make the 701 perform better in the hands 
      of
      a pilot who knows the characteristics, NO they can=92t. Does removing 
      the
      slat increase the cruise of the STOL plane? OF course it does, it
      removes drag this is a no brainer. Conversely, a 701 has a Vne of 110mph
      and with simple clean up of high drag area=92s such as streamlining the
      struts you will be able to cruise your 701 at 95-100mph with the 912S
      installed. Much more then that and your playing too close to the Vne,
      removing the slats is considered a non approved modification by the
      designer, plus he ahs a shutter every time you talk to him about it on
      the 701 because he designed his wings and aircraft specifications with
      the slats included. 
      
      What I=92m trying to state is to not waste your money on the VG route,
      every once and awhile the fellow and his friends who are selling the
      VG=92s state the saving grace of such an upgrade. I don=92t dislike this
      gentleman and believe heartily that VG=92s do have a service in other
      designs. Keep the designers intent of the plane ( after all that is why
      you built it ) isn=92t it? Why else would you build a 701 if it wasn=92t 
      for
      the STOL characteristics. ( Well there is also it=92s graceful beauty).
      Below is the meat of another post of which I agree with, I believe a 701
      as designed is safer and far more capable then the altered version.
      Nonetheless, you need to know how to fly it. Book Time with a seasoned
      instructor in a 701. Get 5 hrs of dual to fully understand how your
      plane can perform, you will be much happier and this VG issue will die a
      quick death as far as the 701 is concerned. 
      
      Slats allow for an AOA of 15% or greater in pitch,VGs perform their task
      at less than 15% AOA on pitch up.  the wing with VGs will stall at a
      lower speed at 15% AOA and under.  The slat does its magic when you
      crank the stick back early to get into G.eFFCT. for early take off.
      Crank too hard with a VG only and you will, not might, but will stall.
      
      Think about it if the company thought they could get a 701 to take off
      in shorter distances then it already does don=92t you think that they
      would be SHOWING it off at the Airshows? It already beats everything on
      the ultralight runway now and I am fully sure that they would love to
      beat a helicopter if they could. ( imagine the sales they would
      generate, and the awards) 
      
      Money spent on lessons with a qualified 701 instructor will be far
      better spent then on VG=92s. At least in the 701. But , you=92re the 
      builder
      and can listen to whichever camp you desire. I have found on many
      occasions that the louder camp can sway opinion regardless of the truth.
      Anyone remember Beta Max Tapes?
      
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      HYPERLINK
      "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
      HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Tipton
      Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:59 AM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues
      
      FYI: I have no landing "problems" at any speed, no VGs and I have slats
      (150 hrs).  Does any plane handle differently at different speeds?  Yes.
      It is NOT a Cessna, NOT a Piper, NOT a Zenith 601, it is a Zenith 701.
      If you change what a Zenith 701 is, it is something different.  For
      better or worse?  Everyone will have a different opinion.  I'm still
      learning to fly my Zenith 701 and love it.  No plans to "improve"
      anything.
      321PT
      
      
      "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
      /Navigator?Zenith-List
      "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
<dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
      
      
      If I add slats and VGs to my 601XL, can I cruise at 150 mph then pull back to 15degrees
      AOA and zoom up to sub-orbital altitude before I stall? It's just a thought.....
      
      
      Dred
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Firewall on 601 XL
From: 
"AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      List,
      
      I am shopping for material for the engine side of the firewall to protect cabin
      against fire.  Can not find anything in our archives, and ACS sells several products,
      some very expensive...however, does anybody have an opinion (stupid question)
      as to "best material" for fire protection?  
      
      Appreciate your feedback.
      
      Mike
      
      --------
      Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
      601 XL, 3300, Dynon
      
      Remember,  "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130269#130269
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Fuel Sender Sealant
From: 
"DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that comes with ZAC's fuel senders
      in lieu of the Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).   I just got
      done ordering some off of Van's web site.  Does anybody here have any hint or
      tips on using this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on the fuel sender? 
      I don't know if I should let this stuff cure a bit before tightening it down or
      not.  Any help would be appreciated.
      
      Thanks,
      
      --------
      David Gallagher
      601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      fueslage almost done, engine next.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron Lalonde" <rlalonde(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 
701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Beta Max tapes??? Sure wish I knew where to get one of those machines. I was 
      one of the many that have tons of those tapes and no machine to transfer 
      them to another media with....LOL
      Keep you eye out for me....REALLY
      
      ps: I am building to plans....... until I become an aircraft designer!!
      
      Ron
      
      
      >
      >Paul has pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is your plane and
      >you may do whatever you wish to it ( for better or Worse). If you fly
      >your STOL aircraft like a Cessna then adding the VGs will increase
      >performance. Of this there is very little doubt. However if you learn to
      >fly your STOL aircraft as it was designed and meant to be flown you will
      >actually realize the performance of the slats and be able to perform and
      >exceed the stated #s for the aircraft. Most of us over the years have
      >seen the 701 perform at the Airshow in the ultralight field. Either with
      >the Rotax 582 or 912. This plane greedily took off in under 50 ft, I
      >have personally seen a 5 ft departure, no magic was performed here, the
      >plane is fully capable of safely performing STOL operations. IT is a
      >matter of learning, can VGs make the 701 perform better in the hands of
      >a pilot who knows the characteristics, NO they cant. Does removing the
      >slat increase the cruise of the STOL plane? OF course it does, it
      >removes drag this is a no brainer. Conversely, a 701 has a Vne of 110mph
      >and with simple clean up of high drag areas such as streamlining the
      >struts you will be able to cruise your 701 at 95-100mph with the 912S
      >installed. Much more then that and your playing too close to the Vne,
      >removing the slats is considered a non approved modification by the
      >designer, plus he ahs a shutter every time you talk to him about it on
      >the 701 because he designed his wings and aircraft specifications with
      >the slats included.
      >
      >What Im trying to state is to not waste your money on the VG route,
      >every once and awhile the fellow and his friends who are selling the
      >VGs state the saving grace of such an upgrade. I dont dislike this
      >gentleman and believe heartily that VGs do have a service in other
      >designs. Keep the designers intent of the plane ( after all that is why
      >you built it ) isnt it? Why else would you build a 701 if it wasnt for
      >the STOL characteristics. ( Well there is also its graceful beauty).
      >Below is the meat of another post of which I agree with, I believe a 701
      >as designed is safer and far more capable then the altered version.
      >Nonetheless, you need to know how to fly it. Book Time with a seasoned
      >instructor in a 701. Get 5 hrs of dual to fully understand how your
      >plane can perform, you will be much happier and this VG issue will die a
      >quick death as far as the 701 is concerned.
      >
      >Slats allow for an AOA of 15% or greater in pitch,VGs perform their task
      >at less than 15% AOA on pitch up.  the wing with VGs will stall at a
      >lower speed at 15% AOA and under.  The slat does its magic when you
      >crank the stick back early to get into G.eFFCT. for early take off.
      >Crank too hard with a VG only and you will, not might, but will stall.
      >
      >Think about it if the company thought they could get a 701 to take off
      >in shorter distances then it already does dont you think that they
      >would be SHOWING it off at the Airshows? It already beats everything on
      >the ultralight runway now and I am fully sure that they would love to
      >beat a helicopter if they could. ( imagine the sales they would
      >generate, and the awards)
      >
      >Money spent on lessons with a qualified 701 instructor will be far
      >better spent then on VGs. At least in the 701. But , youre the builder
      >and can listen to whichever camp you desire. I have found on many
      >occasions that the louder camp can sway opinion regardless of the truth.
      >Anyone remember Beta Max Tapes?
      >
      >
      >Mark Townsend
      >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      >HYPERLINK
      >"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
      >HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Tipton
      >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:59 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues
      >
      >FYI: I have no landing "problems" at any speed, no VGs and I have slats
      >(150 hrs).  Does any plane handle differently at different speeds?  Yes.
      >It is NOT a Cessna, NOT a Piper, NOT a Zenith 601, it is a Zenith 701.
      >If you change what a Zenith 701 is, it is something different.  For
      >better or worse?  Everyone will have a different opinion.  I'm still
      >learning to fly my Zenith 701 and love it.  No plans to "improve"
      >anything.
      >321PT
      >
      >
      >"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
      >/Navigator?Zenith-List
      >"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
      >
      >
      >8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      >
      >
      >8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      >
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      Show Your Messenger Buddies How You Really Feel 
      http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)rogers.com>
Subject: 
Fuel Sender Sealant
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Wear clothes you done like.  Once it gets on your clothes, it will never
      come off!  Also, use it in a well ventilated area.  Pro-seal stinks to high
      heaven.
      
      
      Paul Riedlinger
      paulried(at)rogers.com
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL
      Sent: August-22-07 3:09 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that comes with ZAC's fuel
      senders in lieu of the Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).   I
      just got done ordering some off of Van's web site.  Does anybody here have
      any hint or tips on using this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on the
      fuel sender?  I don't know if I should let this stuff cure a bit before
      tightening it down or not.  Any help would be appreciated.
      
      Thanks,
      
      --------
      David Gallagher
      601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      fueslage almost done, engine next.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      Second that part about wearing clothes you don't mind
      not wearing again.  I have used it on helicopter
      transmissions to seal input and output quills so that
      they wouldn't seep oil.  You can smooth it out after
      it has partially cured by using your finger and
      saliva.  I am sure there are MDS that warn of all the
      dangers of doing that.  It never affected me while I
      was doing it, and there have been no ill results yet.
      
      Terry
      --- DaveG601XL  wrote:
      
      > 
      > 
      > I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that
      > comes with ZAC's fuel senders in lieu of the
      > Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).  
      > I just got done ordering some off of Van's web site.
      >  Does anybody here have any hint or tips on using
      > this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on the
      > fuel sender?  I don't know if I should let this
      > stuff cure a bit before tightening it down or not. 
      > Any help would be appreciated.
      > 
      > Thanks,
      > 
      > --------
      > David Gallagher
      > 601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      > fueslage almost done, engine next.
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > Read this topic online here:
      > 
      >
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      >
      > browse
      > Subscriptions page,
      > FAQ,
      > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
      >
      > Web Forums!
      >
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
             
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
From: 
"Matt Ronics" <e_jocular(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      As a side point, I think it petty that these people should charge money for such
      simple things as VGs.  Why not just share the idea and give instructions for
      other builders (ie in the spirit of the movement).  I see no engineering or data
      points to substantiate that these things are even adequately applied to the
      design.  
      
      Snake oil for airplanes?
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130308#130308
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      http://search.ebay.com/betamax_W0QQfclZ4QQfnuZ1QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1
      
      
      rlalonde wrote:
      > Beta Max tapes??? Sure wish I knew where to get one 
      > of those machines. -
      
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130310#130310
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
Fuel Sender Sealant
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Keep in mind it's other name is BLACK GOO OF DEATH and it is well
      deserved. I use it on all fuel senders I install, and I really hate the
      stuff.
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      president@can-zacaviation.com
      www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
      Riedlinger
      Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:40 PM
      Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      
      Wear clothes you done like.  Once it gets on your clothes, it will never
      come off!  Also, use it in a well ventilated area.  Pro-seal stinks to
      high
      heaven.
      
      
      Paul Riedlinger
      paulried(at)rogers.com
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL
      Sent: August-22-07 3:09 PM
      Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      
      I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that comes with ZAC's fuel
      senders in lieu of the Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).
      I
      just got done ordering some off of Van's web site.  Does anybody here
      have
      any hint or tips on using this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on
      the
      fuel sender?  I don't know if I should let this stuff cure a bit before
      tightening it down or not.  Any help would be appreciated.
      
      Thanks,
      
      --------
      David Gallagher
      601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      fueslage almost done, engine next.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jerry Hey <jerryhey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      To Mark and every one else who responded, thanks.  I will take your  
      advice to hitch a ride in a slated 701.  I live in northeast Indiana  
      but I would drive all day for a demo ride.  It is true that I have  
      never flown a true STOL  aircraft so I do have much to learn.  My  
      background is strictly tail draggers , two Luscombes and a Tailwind  
      and mostly off dirt.  Just 300 hrs.    I have no Cessna time.    Jerry
      
      
      On Aug 22, 2007, at 11:35 AM, ZodieRocket wrote:
      
      > Paul has pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is your plane  
      > and you may do whatever you wish to it ( for better or Worse). If  
      > you fly your STOL aircraft like a Cessna then adding the VG=92s will  
      
      > increase performance. Of this there is very little doubt. However  
      > if you learn to fly your STOL aircraft as it was designed and meant  
      
      > to be flown you will actually realize the performance of the slats  
      > and be able to perform and exceed the stated #=92s for the aircraft.  
      
      > Most of us over the years have seen the 701 perform at the Airshow  
      > in the ultralight field. Either with the Rotax 582 or 912. This  
      > plane greedily took off in under 50 ft, I have personally seen a 5  
      > ft departure, no magic was performed here, the plane is fully  
      > capable of safely performing STOL operations. IT is a matter of  
      > learning, can VG=92s make the 701 perform better in the hands of a  
      > pilot who knows the characteristics, NO they can=92t. Does removing  
      
      > the slat increase the cruise of the STOL plane? OF course it does,  
      > it removes drag this is a no brainer. Conversely, a 701 has a Vne  
      > of 110mph and with simple clean up of high drag area=92s such as  
      > streamlining the struts you will be able to cruise your 701 at  
      > 95-100mph with the 912S installed. Much more then that and your  
      > playing too close to the Vne, removing the slats is considered a  
      > non approved modification by the designer, plus he ahs a shutter  
      > every time you talk to him about it on the 701 because he designed  
      > his wings and aircraft specifications with the slats included.
      >
      >
      > What I=92m trying to state is to not waste your money on the VG  
      > route, every once and awhile the fellow and his friends who are  
      > selling the VG=92s state the saving grace of such an upgrade. I don=92t 
      
      > dislike this gentleman and believe heartily that VG=92s do have a  
      > service in other designs. Keep the designers intent of the plane  
      > ( after all that is why you built it ) isn=92t it? Why else would you  
      
      > build a 701 if it wasn=92t for the STOL characteristics. ( Well there  
      
      > is also it=92s graceful beauty). Below is the meat of another post of  
      
      > which I agree with, I believe a 701 as designed is safer and far  
      > more capable then the altered version. Nonetheless, you need to  
      > know how to fly it. Book Time with a seasoned instructor in a 701.  
      > Get 5 hrs of dual to fully understand how your plane can perform,  
      > you will be much happier and this VG issue will die a quick death  
      > as far as the 701 is concerned.
      >
      >
      > Slats allow for an AOA of 15% or greater in pitch,VGs perform their  
      
      > task at less than 15% AOA on pitch up.  the wing with VGs will  
      > stall at a lower speed at 15% AOA and under.  The slat does its  
      > magic when you crank the stick back early to get into G.eFFCT. for  
      > early take off.  Crank too hard with a VG only and you will, not  
      > might, but will stall.
      >
      >
      > Think about it if the company thought they could get a 701 to take  
      > off in shorter distances then it already does don=92t you think that  
      
      > they would be SHOWING it off at theAirshows? It already beats  
      > everything on the ultralight runway now and I am fully sure that  
      > they would love to beat a helicopter if they could. ( imagine the  
      > sales they would generate, and the awards)
      >
      >
      > Money spent on lessons with a qualified 701 instructor will be far  
      > better spent then on VG=92s. At least in the 701. But , you=92re the  
      
      > builder and can listen to whichever camp you desire. I have found  
      > on many occasions that the louder camp can sway opinion regardless  
      > of the truth. Anyone remember Beta Max Tapes?
      >
      >
      > Mark Townsend
      >
      > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      >
      > president@can-zacaviation.com
      >
      > www.can-zacaviation.com
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith- 
      > list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Tipton
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:59 AM
      > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues
      >
      >
      > FYI: I have no landing "problems" at any speed, no VGs and I have  
      > slats (150 hrs).  Does any plane handle differently at different  
      > speeds?  Yes.  It is NOT a Cessna, NOT a Piper, NOT a Zenith 601,  
      > it is a Zenith 701.  If you change what a Zenith 701 is, it is  
      > something different.  For better or worse?  Everyone will have a  
      > different opinion.  I'm still learning to fly my Zenith 701 and  
      > love it.  No plans to "improve" anything.
      >
      > 321PT
      >
      >
      >           - The Zenith-List Email Forum -
      >    --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
      >               - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
      >    --> http://forums.matronics.com
      >
      >
      > 8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      >
      >
      > 8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      >
      
      
      > ========================
      
      > ========================
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Not necessarily Snake oil, they are quite useful in a laminar flow plane
      and for helping in certain designs. They really make a difference on a
      glider I tried them on. They may even make a difference on a 601XL,
      though I doubt it would be noticeable. But on the 701 and remove the
      slats, PLEASE, the proof of the 701's performance has been shown time
      and time again at the shows, if your not matching the performance that
      you have seen at the airshows, I'm afraid to tell you it is not likely
      the plane, however the pilot just needs a little tweaking. Essentially
      if the 701 is not scarring the hell out of you on departure you are a
      seasoned 701 pilot or not flying it to it's abilities. Vortex Generators
      will improve a pilot who is in need of learning a STOL's capabilities,
      but it is a dangerous band aid in my opinion and training will be far
      more beneficial. 
      
      Though it is not so much training to fly the 701 it is more like
      de-programming all those Cessna habits. 
      
      
      Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario
      Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
      www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
      
      -----Original Message-----
      
      As a side point, I think it petty that these people should charge money
      for such simple things as VGs.  Why not just share the idea and give
      instructions for other builders (ie in the spirit of the movement).  I
      see no engineering or data points to substantiate that these things are
      even adequately applied to the design.  
      
      Snake oil for airplanes?
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Inquiring minds need to know:
      
       Is there a history of the side mounted fuel senders LEAKING if using the 
      prescribed rubber ring (no sealant) method?
      
      (The revised 701 plans now mount the sender in the side also).
      
      I'm just curious if there is an actual history of failures (leaks) or if 
      this proseal recommendation is just for insurance's sake....
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Canopy weatherstrip
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
"Jerry Goldberg" <jgoldberg(at)seniorconnections.com>
      
      I need a wider rear canopy weather strip for my 601 HD.  Does anyone
      know where there is a supply?
      
      
      Thanks, 
      Jerry 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: alumunum
      
      Larry,
        Probably not accurate anymore but here is the Aluminum price quotes from Yarde
      as 10/06.
         
        6061T6 Aluminum Sheet
        0.016 4' X 12' sheet (#11.06 lbs per sheet) $34.28
        0.025 4' X 12'......$90.00pc
        0.025 4' X 6'.......$70.00pc
        0.032 4' X 8'.......$90.00pc
        0.040 4' X 8'.......$110.00pc
        0.063 4' X 2'.......$50.00pc
        0.090 2' X 2'.......$40.00pc
        0.125 2' X 2'.......$45.00pc
        >>
         2024T3 Aluminum Bar
        " X 1" X 1'..........$30.00pc
        3/16" X 1 " X 1'.....$30.00pc (2024-T4) 1pc.  X 1/2 X 
        2'.........$35.00pc
         
         6061T6 Aluminum Angle
        .750x.750x.125X 25'@ $22/pc
        1  X 1  X 0.125 X 4'.......$40.00pc
        >> 1  X 1  X 0.18 X 1'........$40.00pc
         
        >Brian Johnson
        > Yarde Metals
        > 866-630-1220
        > 336-883-6935 fax
         
        Art
        701
      
      
      Ron Lendon  wrote:
      
      Best prices on Aluminum used to be Yarde, it might still be.
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130199#130199
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      use the gasket, and use the proseal, slather it on then screw everything n place.
      voi La.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
      >Sent: Aug 22, 2007 3:08 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Sealant
      >
      >
      >I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that comes with ZAC's fuel senders
      in lieu of the Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).   I just got
      done ordering some off of Van's web site.  Does anybody here have any hint or
      tips on using this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on the fuel sender?
      I don't know if I should let this stuff cure a bit before tightening it down
      or not.  Any help would be appreciated.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >--------
      >David Gallagher
      >601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      >fueslage almost done, engine next.
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      use the gasket, and use the proseal, slather it on then screw everything n place.
      voi La.
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
      >Sent: Aug 22, 2007 3:08 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Sealant
      >
      >
      >I have decided not to use the rubber gasket that comes with ZAC's fuel senders
      in lieu of the Flamemaster sealant (used to be called Pro-Seal).   I just got
      done ordering some off of Van's web site.  Does anybody here have any hint or
      tips on using this stuff?  How about a torquing sequence on the fuel sender?
      I don't know if I should let this stuff cure a bit before tightening it down
      or not.  Any help would be appreciated.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >--------
      >David Gallagher
      >601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      >fueslage almost done, engine next.
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130292#130292
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Canopy weatherstrip
      
      
      a card comes with the strip you have, call the company.  just add a skirt in the
      back.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Jerry Goldberg <jgoldberg(at)seniorconnections.com>
      >Sent: Aug 22, 2007 7:37 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy weatherstrip
      >
      >I need a wider rear canopy weather strip for my 601 HD.  Does anyone
      >know where there is a supply?
      > 
      >
      >Thanks, 
      >Jerry 
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at the EAA Chapter 186 Fall
      Flyin and Cruisin
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      The Gathering is now just a month away.  It's time to make your plans to
      come to Winchester, Virginia on September 22nd and 23rd.  I have ordered the
      banners, arranged for the tent and space to tie down our planes, and I'm
      putting together a couple of static displays of typical Zenith parts and a
      slide/video show to run.  The EAA Chapter has finalized their plans for the
      overall event.  Posters are up in most area airports.  We will have plenty
      of space to sit around, socialize, and talk Zenith aircraft.   So let's get
      those calendars out!  
      
      
      Details on the Gathering are on the Zenith web site under the Events link
      and on the EAA Chapter 186 web site.  I can be reached at 703-471-1153 or at
      the ZenithGathering(at)earthlink.net email address for any questions you have.
      
      
      I appreciate the support from the following organizations:
      
      
      HomeBuiltHelp
      
      CAN-ZAC 
      
      Zenith Aircraft
      
      EAA Chapter 186
      
      Zenith Newsletter
      
      Matronics
      
      AMD 
      
      
      Jeff Davidson
      
      CH601-HD/Jabiru 3300A
      
      Not quite done yet ..
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Fuel System Design
From: 
"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Hey gang,  It's time to begin the design of the fuel system.  I have little experience
      but I have placed a design document at this location:
      
      
      and would like feedback.  If I am off base here, let me know.
      
      Basically I'm following the prints but substituting Stainless Braided line and
      fittings from Earls.  The document is linear in that it starts at the tank and
      ends at the line to the carb.
      
      --------
      Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130369#130369
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 
701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      IF your in Indiana then just head over to west of St Louis to the Zenith
      Facility at Mexico , Missouri. Just call ahead and make sure Roger will
      be there and the 701 will be present. They will be more then happy to
      take you up for a demo flight.
      
      Mark Townsend
      Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
      HYPERLINK
      "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
      HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com 
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Hey
      Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:52 PM
      Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
      
      To Mark and every one else who responded, thanks.  I will take your
      advice to hitch a ride in a slated 701.  I live in northeast Indiana but
      I would drive all day for a demo ride.  It is true that I have never
      flown a true STOL  aircraft so I do have much to learn.  My background
      is strictly tail draggers , two Luscombes and a Tailwind and mostly off
      dirt.  Just 300 hrs.    I have no Cessna time.    Jerry 
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
      8/22/2007 9:05 AM
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Richard Brantley" <rgbort1938(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07
Date: 
Aug 22, 2007
      
      
      Let's kill all the bastards and let God sort it out!!! Best use of nukes for 
      peace I  can think of -- I don't think our kids have the balls for IT!!
      
      Richard
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Zenith-List Digest Server" <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 2:58 AM
      Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07
      
      
      > This message has been processed by Symantec's AntiVirus Technology.
      >
      > Unknown00000000.data was not scanned for viruses because too many nested 
      > levels of files were found.
      >
      >
      > For more information on antivirus tips and technology, visit
      > http://ses.symantec.com/ 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
FWF for 701
From: 
"Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      Am I the only person waiting over 3 months for a Rotax FWF (less engine) from Mexico?
      Just courious if anyone else is in the same boat as me. If you are getting
      close, I would suggest you order early.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130428#130428
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
From: 
"steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      I have side mounted senders in my CH640. I used the supplied gasket with a slathering
      of fuel lube. No leaks in 500 hours. I did, however, have a sender fail
      and had to replace it. It was fairly straight forward to replace without the
      proseal, trying to replace it if it was sealed with proseal would be next to impossible
      without openning up the wing to get at it. I wouldn't bother with the
      proseal, which is more suited to a permanent installation.
      
      Steve Adams
      CH640
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130443#130443
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: 
Bounched
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      Kevin McClune, you keep asking about PegaStol wings.  I respond every 
      time, but your server keeps bouncing it back to me.  Check your end. 
      
      Anyway, maybe this will help.  Dedalius sold out to Raymond Miller of 
      Alaska.  You can get him at moseus(at)gmail.com.  I have no idea when he is 
      going to start producing kits.  I wish he would, it's one great product. 
       Take care,
      Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      actually i have had to repair a few things with proseal.  What is nice about proseal
      is that if you pul it, its like superglue, however its properties let it
      stay flexible indefinitely. SO to separate two pieces or say the sender from
      the tank, you just slip an exacto blade between the two peices and not pry but
      slice it off and it comes right off.  Proseal that has cured can be cut like
      butter..
      
      Juan
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: steveadams <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
      >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 8:16 AM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      >
      >
      >I have side mounted senders in my CH640. I used the supplied gasket with a slathering
      of fuel lube. No leaks in 500 hours. I did, however, have a sender fail
      and had to replace it. It was fairly straight forward to replace without the
      proseal, trying to replace it if it was sealed with proseal would be next to
      impossible without openning up the wing to get at it. I wouldn't bother with the
      proseal, which is more suited to a permanent installation.
      >
      >Steve Adams
      >CH640
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130443#130443
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
From: 
Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fuel System Design
      
      
      just stick to the plans, its a good design.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Ron Lendon <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
      >Sent: Aug 22, 2007 10:08 PM
      >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
      >Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel System Design
      >
      >
      >Hey gang,  It's time to begin the design of the fuel system.  I have little experience
      but I have placed a design document at this location:
      >
      >
      >and would like feedback.  If I am off base here, let me know.
      >
      >Basically I'm following the prints but substituting Stainless Braided line and
      fittings from Earls.  The document is linear in that it starts at the tank and
      ends at the line to the carb.
      >
      >--------
      >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
      >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
      >http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130369#130369
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
From: 
"DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      Steve,
      
      I am not familiar with the CH640, but did you get to the fuel sender via a small
      access panel like on the 601XL (170mm x 75mm) or you have full access to the
      tank?  I am wondering since you said it was a pretty straight forward replacement
      for you.  A sender replacement with just a gasket on it would seem, to me,
      to be an impossible task on a 601XL for my not-so-small hands.  I envision a
      leading edge removal for any fuel tank work past a simple fuel hose replacement.
      
      Thanks,
      
      --------
      David Gallagher
      601 XL, tail and wings completed,
      fueslage almost done, engine next.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130481#130481
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
From: 
"Avidmagnum" <classpix(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      A lot of good points on the  subject of VG's and there is no way we can cover all
      of them for everone. Some will love them and some will not. That's OK! We do
      not all fly our aircraft the same way.
      
      My 701sp with 912S has floats and there is no way I can rotate like a land plane...the
      tails of the floats will drag.   I have time in my 701 with and without
      slats and like it much better without! But thats on floats!   
      
      Tom Schulke
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130482#130482
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
From: 
Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: 
Re: FWF for 701
      
      
      It took about three months for my order to arrive.  I also had to wait 
      additional time for some small back ordered items.
      
      Dan Wilde
      
      
      Mike Hoffman wrote:
      >
      > Am I the only person waiting over 3 months for a Rotax FWF (less engine) from
      Mexico? Just courious if anyone else is in the same boat as me. If you are getting
      close, I would suggest you order early.
      >
      >
      >   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
From: 
Jean-Paul Roy <royjp(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: 
Re: 701 VG's - Put this puppy to rest
      
      Hello Tom. I am actually building a Ch 701SP and it meant to be on floats as I
      live on a nice lakeshore. I've following this slats/no slats from the very beginning
      and I'm a litlle confused.
         
        I've also went trought all of the Stolspeed aerodynamic web site (the guy who
      makes the Feathers VG's) many times and that even put more confusion in my mind.
         
        Of course, I would like the performances the web site says it do. Since i'm going
      on floats and skis in the winter, I would like to have the opinion of a real
      time user.
         
        Since you've been using your 701 in both configurations, could you tell me the
      differences you found both ways.
         
        I'm at the point of putting my wings skelleton together and if the decision is
      made to not use the slats, I won't even bother with installing the slat supports.
         
        Thanks ahead of time for any opinion you may give. It is important for me.
         
        Jean-Paul Roy
        Angliers, Quebec, Canada
        701, building wings
      
      Avidmagnum  a crit :
      
      A lot of good points on the subject of VG's and there is no way we can cover all
      of them for everone. Some will love them and some will not. That's OK! We do
      not all fly our aircraft the same way.
      
      My 701sp with 912S has floats and there is no way I can rotate like a land plane...the
      tails of the floats will drag. I have time in my 701 with and without
      slats and like it much better without! But thats on floats! 
      
      Tom Schulke
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130482#130482
      
      
      Jean-Paul Roy
      royjp(at)yahoo.ca 
      Tl: (819)949-2216
      Cell:(819)629-9360
             
      ---------------------------------
      Combattez les mchants pourriels... Le filtre SpamGuard vous aide  lutter efficacement
      contre les pourriels sur le Tout-nouveau Yahoo! Courriel 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
      
      
      Steve,
      
      I have installed mine in the 701 the same way that you did and I also had  
      one fail in the 1st few hours. I was able to replace it through the inspection
      
      hole that was installed without too much of a problem.
      
      Bob Spudis
      N701ZX/ CH701/126hrs
      
      I have side mounted senders in my CH640. I used the supplied gasket  with a 
      slathering of fuel lube. No leaks in 500 hours. I did, however, have a  sender
      
      fail and had to replace it. It was fairly straight forward to replace  without
      
      the proseal, trying to replace it if it was sealed with proseal would be  
      next to impossible without openning up the wing to get at it. I wouldn't bother
      
      with the proseal, which is more suited to a permanent installation.
      
      Steve  Adams
      CH640
      
      
      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 
Re:weight & balance with one scale?
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      Don't do what I did - I bought three cheap digital electronic scales at
      Costco. Problem is that they are designed to turn on when you step on them
      and will turn off after a short period. Hard to do when weighing a plane so
      I returned them.
      
      -- Craig
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: weight & balance with one scale?
From: 
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales
      you can find. 
      
      Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher.
      Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use.
      
      I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word.
      
      --------
      W.R. "Gig" Giacona
      601XL Under Construction
      See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fuel Sender Sealant
From: 
"steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      DaveG601XL wrote:
      > Steve,
      > 
      > I am not familiar with the CH640, but did you get to the fuel sender via a small
      access panel like on the 601XL (170mm x 75mm) or you have full access to the
      tank?  I am wondering since you said it was a pretty straight forward replacement
      for you.  A sender replacement with just a gasket on it would seem, to
      me, to be an impossible task on a 601XL for my not-so-small hands.  I envision
      a leading edge removal for any fuel tank work past a simple fuel hose replacement.
      > 
      > Thanks,
      
      
      Yes, the 640 has a similar small access panel. You have to reach through the access
      panel and then through a lightenning hole to get at the sender. Not easy
      (or fun), but doable if the sender is not sealed in place. Trying to get a blade
      in there to cut through the proseal, even if it cuts like butter, would probably
      result in a lot of swearing and a few blood stains. Then you would have
      to clean the old proseal off completely, without getting any in the tanks, all
      while laying on your back with your twisted arms blocking your view of the work
      area. After flying for a while I have grown to appreciate how much easier things
      are if you consider future maintenance while building.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130563#130563
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 
Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      My motor mount was supplied by Jabiru USA about 8 months ago. After seeing
      that the engine's thrust-line didn't match the Zenith plans I took some
      measurements of the mount's tubes as requested by Jabiru USA. They said that
      the top tubes were about 10 cm too long and that they would exchange the
      mount. So if you have such a mount do some checking before you paint your
      mount and hang your engine. The easiest way to check the mount is with a
      digital level.
      
      -- Craig
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 
Fuel System Design
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      A few comments:
      
      - since you are going with the Corvair I presume you will be following
      William's design.
      - consider adding a fuel flow sender and gauge. Fuel exhaustion is an all to
      common cause of accidents and fuel flow can provide an instantaneous check
      on the health of your fuel system and also help you track your fuel more
      accurately.
      - I'm paranoid enough about vapor-lock that I went with the Andair
      extensions so I can mount my valve on the floor and the knob on the center
      console.
      
      -- Craig
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: FWF for 701
From: 
"Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      
      Dan Wilde, 
      
      Thanks for the reply. Good to know I'm not the only one, even though it doesn't
      make it any better. Just thought it would be a "heads up" for those that might
      be at the same point as me and a reminder to order at least 3 months in advance.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130616#130616
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Bill Flick" <rflick(at)ovalinternet.net>
Subject: 
type IV vw engine
Date: 
Aug 23, 2007
      
      has or is anyone useing a type iv vw engine on the zenair or any other 
      plane?  i am thinking of one with a redrive and would like any info you 
      may have.  thanks  bill