AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 05/31/12


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Found it! (Dan Billingsley)
     2. 08:41 AM - Re: PMAG (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 09:43 AM - Re: PMAG (B Tomm)
     4. 11:16 AM - Re: PMAG (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 11:43 AM - Re: PMAG (Tim Andres)
     6. 04:08 PM - Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart kit? (Jack in Austin)
     7. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart kit? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart kit? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:19:18 AM PST US
    From: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
    Subject: Re: Found it!
    Thanks Bob, That brought it home for me. Off to get a-2-ckt plug.=0ADan =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:24 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Found it!=0A =0A=0A=0A- Bob . . . =0A=0AI did get to the hanger today and quickly pulled the wires out into the=0Aopen that has the 3.5mm plug =0A=0A(one that goes into the Garmin). Can you explain the lo / hi audio wi re=0Athing. =0A=0A- In a monophonic audio cable with 3.5 mm plug, the tip is=0A- connected to the signal/center/hi lead, the sleeve is=0A- conne cted to the shield/ground/lo lead.=0A=0A- A stereo cable adds another fre e conductor and the=0A- two signal wires become right and left audio. The =0A- shield/ground/lo lead still connects to the sleeve.=0A=0A- The lar ger analogy can be seen on a legacy microphone=0A- connector=0A=0Ahttp:// aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html=0A=0AAm I to understand that =0A=0Athe lo is to be soldered to the ground? This may be my goof as I=0Ap urchased this plug (which=0Ais stereo and my intercom is not). I think I ma y have soldered the two=0Awires to right and left and the ground =0Amight b e left out in the cold. Will need to double check, but I looked up=0Athe PM 1000 pin-out after I =0Agot home so it may be in the soldering of that plu g. I purchased the=0Asolderable mini plug in stereo =0Aconfig as I wanted t o hear the music / alerts in both sides of=0Aheadset.=0A=0A--- I'm co nfused. If you have stereo headsets, then you=0Awould=0A--- need to i nstall 3-circuit jacks and tie both r/l=0Aaudio=0A--- from headset to gether to be treated as a mono=0Aheadset.=0A--- This is the only plac e you would use a 3-ckt=0Ajack.=0A=0A--- The PM1000 MUSIC IN is monop honic which would=0Arequired=0A--- blending r/l channels together BEF ORE wiring the=0Ablend=0A--- into pin 20 and the lo/gnd side to pin 7 .=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0A=0A-- This would call for a 2-ckt plug to do the mate up=0Abetween=0A-- the Garmin and the PS1000. And just for grins, I'd use=0A-- pin 7 of the PS1000 for BOTH audio ground and DC power=0A -- ground for the Garmin.=0A=0A-- http://tinyurl.com/7ypuofg=0A=0A =0A-- Unless you have stereo audio to handle, a simple 2-ckt=0Aplug/jac k=0A-- combination will suffice. The mis-application of the 3-ckt=0Ajac k=0A-- may indeed be contributing to your problem. =0A- Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:41:36 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: PMAG
    At 11:39 PM 5/30/2012, you wrote: I ordered wire ferrules from McMasterCarr for the Pmag connections. See http://www.mcmaster.com/#lug-terminals/=hrnvdt Bevan Hmmmm . . . Not sure these terminals will add anything useful to the mating of wires to the pmag. The wire grip in Emagair's control plugs are designed to grab stranded wire. One might improve on the grip slightly by combing the strands out so that they don't over-lap each other in the grip area. Having made the electrical connection secure, legacy termination techniques call for support of the wire+ insulation immediately adjacent to the electrical connection. This design goal is addressed in Emagair instructions with use of M21919 padded clamp as shown. Emacs! Adding a device like this . . . [] . . . to the end of the wire decreases effectiveness of the electrical connection. Closing the wire grips down on 19 strands of wire offers as many as 38 points of hi-pressure contact with the stranding layup. Crimping a 'pin' on the strands reduces this to 2 points of contact (maybe 3 if the 'groove' in the pin is flat against a contact surface. Therefore, I suggest that more elegant technique is to follow Emagair instructions as published. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:43:26 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: PMAG
    Good thoughts Bob, I have been of the opinion (perhaps wrongly) that these type of connections (found on Pmags) were designed for use with solid wire. If used on finely stranded wire in a high vibration environment,, wouldn't the sharp pinch force eventually squish/sever some of the small strands effectively loosening the contact? Initially. not all the strands can be in contact with the connector (maybe half at best). Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:25 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PMAG At 11:39 PM 5/30/2012, you wrote: I ordered wire ferrules from McMasterCarr for the Pmag connections. See http://www.mcmaster.com/#lug-terminals/=hrnvdt Bevan Hmmmm . . . Not sure these terminals will add anything useful to the mating of wires to the pmag. The wire grip in Emagair's control plugs are designed to grab stranded wire. One might improve on the grip slightly by combing the strands out so that they don't over-lap each other in the grip area. Having made the electrical connection secure, legacy termination techniques call for support of the wire+ insulation immediately adjacent to the electrical connection. This design goal is addressed in Emagair instructions with use of M21919 padded clamp as shown. Emacs! Adding a device like this . . . [] <http://images1.mcmaster.com/Contents/gfx/large/8009k26p1l.png?ver=10574016> . . . to the end of the wire decreases effectiveness of the electrical connection. Closing the wire grips down on 19 strands of wire offers as many as 38 points of hi-pressure contact with the stranding layup. Crimping a 'pin' on the strands reduces this to 2 points of contact (maybe 3 if the 'groove' in the pin is flat against a contact surface. Therefore, I suggest that more elegant technique is to follow Emagair instructions as published. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:16:39 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: PMAG
    At 11:39 AM 5/31/2012, you wrote: >Good thoughts Bob, > >I have been of the opinion (perhaps wrongly) that these type of >connections (found on Pmags) were designed for use with solid >wire. If used on finely stranded wire in a high vibration >environment,, wouldn't the sharp pinch force eventually squish/sever >some of the small strands effectively loosening the >contact? Initially. not all the strands can be in contact with the >connector (maybe half at best). > >Bevan Had a chat with Brad Dement about an hour ago to confirm validity of my earlier post. Perhaps I can offer a clarification of the science behind this relatively new wire termination technology. Clamping solid wires under screw heads and nuts or between washers is a legacy technique going back a century or more. When stranded wire became the material of choice for ease of installation and vibration resistance, getting a good clamp under a rotating fastener became problematic. An ol' gray beard electrician once advised me to put a counter clockwise twist on strands and them wrap the wire around a stud in a clockwise direction so that rotational motion of the fasteners tended to tighten the twist as opposed to unwinding it. This technique recognized the fact that stranded wire was really a different animal for achieving enduring connections. Then folks like AMP, Molex, T&B came along and figured out ways to crimp a terminal onto a stranded wire in a way that essentially turned terminal and wire into a single piece of metal. But the guys who made a living figuring out ways to connect wires came up with a new idea which I've illustrated below. The goal is to make a high pressure, tightly constrained joining of wire strands (green) with an electrical conductor within the assembly (red). Design goals included taking both the screw and the mechanical structure around the joint out of the current pathway. It would also be nice if the end of the screw did scrub against the strands during rotation. Emacs! What you see above is a generalization of the elegant solution. Stranded wires are captive within the 'box' along with a large area conductor driven into intimate contact with the strands by screw pressure. The end of the screw never touches the strands. Further, the box around the joint and the screw are rather robust. Brad tells me that he has put a lot of torque to these seemingly small screws without stripping the threads or twisting the head off. So what appears to be a joining process that favors solid wire, the technique actually accommodates stranded wires equally well . . . if not better. The magic happens by combining high pressure to a constrained bundle of strands and keeping the numbers of joints in the power path to a minimum. The forces are less than for a crimped joint . . . the strands are minimally deformed and certainly not gas-tight with the red conductor . . . but it's adequate to the task. No value is added by converting the strands into a 'solid' conductor. Pretty slick. That takes care of electrical issues . . . and in the stationary environment is probably sufficient. In a high vibration environment, the installation is not complete until the bundle coming off the terminal strip is firmly constrained in a closely co-located clamp. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:43:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: PMAG
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Thanks for following up on this Bob Tim


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:08:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart kit?
    From: "Jack in Austin" <aviation@comconn.com>
    My check was cashed a month ago.. but I never received anything but a few emails telling me why nothing had shipped my way. Has *anyone* actually received anything? I was going to see what shipped, and maybe order again, based on what I received, but at this point, I'm pretty much writing this off as a scam, and a lesson learned. -Jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374436#374436


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:02:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart
    kit? At 06:06 PM 5/31/2012, you wrote: ><aviation@comconn.com> > >My check was cashed a month ago.. but I never received anything but >a few emails telling me why nothing had shipped my way. > >Has *anyone* actually received anything? I was going to see what >shipped, and maybe order again, based on what I received, but at >this point, I'm pretty much writing this off as a scam, and a lesson learned. Ron has a boat load of these offers to box up and ship. I think he's been waiting until everyone who wants one has placed their order so he can do a one-time shipping effort. Ron posted a note on the 27th here: http://www.matronics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89897 wherein he thought he was close to moving a bunch of lead, plastic and misc goodies out of his shop! Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:17:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a 9lb battery/jumpstart
    kit?
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Jack No scam, everyone will get their stuff. Yours will go out in the next day or two. It ends up packaging two or three in the Flat Rate box is rather time consuming. They are also rather heavy so I have only been dropping off two or three at the post office at a time. You have my word, if not you can come take away my first born, just mind he is in college! I made a post that this is last chance to order,, and I got more orders from that post than the first posting! The charge controllers are rather kool. You will get a 500mA 115VAC transformer to power the charge controller. That I have used a lot and it works fine. Because I needed to charge a number of batteries for this last wave, since I have a 200 amp 12V battery on hand, I used it to power a half dozen charge controllers through the 12 volt input of the charge controller. Works great, just like using the transformer. I include in the package a little schematic, but be aware that once the battery "peaks", you need to unplug the input to get the holding circuit to reset. Ron Parigoris




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