Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: instrument panel connectors (BobsV35B@aol.com)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: instrument panel connectors (James Kilford)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Z12 Alternator Amps (Steve Stearns)
4. 09:41 AM - grounding procedures (bob noffs)
5. 10:56 AM - Re: grounding procedures (Dave Saylor)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: grounding procedures (Dj Merrill)
7. 11:50 AM - Re: grounding procedures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:21 PM - Re: grounding procedures (David Lloyd)
9. 12:43 PM - Ground jumping on Z-14 (Chris Barber)
10. 12:57 PM - Re: Ground jumping on Z-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 01:21 PM - Re: grounding procedures (bob noffs)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: grounding procedures (Peter Pengilly)
13. 02:04 PM - Re: Ground jumping on Z-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:07 PM - Re: grounding procedures (F. Tim Yoder)
15. 03:01 PM - Re: grounding procedures (James Robinson)
16. 09:07 PM - OT: batteries in series on maintainer (rayj)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: instrument panel connectors |
Good Morning Allan,
A little over twenty years ago I set up my Bonanza floating panel so as to
make it easily removable. I had a lot of switches mounted on the panel so
there were a lot of connections other than the usual stock connectors on the
individual instruments.
What I did was arrange to have just one static line and one pitot line
going to the panel. The rest of that plumbing stayed with the removed panel. I
used stock wrench removable B nut connectors for those two lines as well as
all other plumbing. For all of the miscellaneous electrical items I
installed a standard 60 pin CPC connector. Used about forty of the available
spots. The CPC series of connectors use the same machined pins as do the sub D
connectors. That has worked well for the last twenty plus years.
I can remove the panel in five minutes and reinstall it in less than ten
minutes. Total number of electrical connectors and tubing on the panel is
less than ten.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/10/2012 12:43:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
aaaron@tvp.com.au writes:
If I were to make my instrument panel (mainly steam guages) removable,
what would be the best type of connectors to use from a reliability, noise and
maintenance perspective. I need to think about power, sensors and
radio/audio. I realise that this may introduce some unreliability into the system
- just wondering if I were to do this, what are the best type of connectors
to use.
Thanks - Allan
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: instrument panel connectors |
On mine, the radios & GPS are on a separate tray, which gets left in place
when the panel is removed. Toggle switches are on a separate
permanently-installed sub-panel. Apart from that, there are the following
types of connectors:
Engine instruments: 9-pin d-sub (all UMA instruments)
Stall warner light: Mate-n-lok
Annunciator panel: Mate-n-lok
Intercom: 9-pin d-sub
Turn co-ordinator: wire-lockable Amphenol connector (to suit t/c)
Pitot / static: quick-disconnect fittings.
Rev counter: quick-disconnect fitting supplied with it (UMA again)
Vacuum gauges: haven't thought about these yet!
I really like the mate-n-lok connectors and have used them throughout the
plane for various connections.
FWIW.
James
On 10 July 2012 10:13, <BobsV35B@aol.com> wrote:
> **
> Good Morning Allan,
>
> A little over twenty years ago I set up my Bonanza floating panel so as to
> make it easily removable. I had a lot of switches mounted on the panel so
> there were a lot of connections other than the usual stock connectors on
> the individual instruments.
>
> What I did was arrange to have just one static line and one pitot line
> going to the panel. The rest of that plumbing stayed with the removed
> panel. I used stock wrench removable B nut connectors for those two lines
> as well as all other plumbing. For all of the miscellaneous electrical
> items I installed a standard 60 pin CPC connector. Used about forty of the
> available spots. The CPC series of connectors use the same machined pins as
> do the sub D connectors. That has worked well for the last twenty plus
> years.
>
> I can remove the panel in five minutes and reinstall it in less than ten
> minutes. Total number of electrical connectors and tubing on the panel is
> less than ten.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2012 12:43:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> aaaron@tvp.com.au writes:
>
> If I were to make my instrument panel (mainly steam guages) removable,
> what would be the best type of connectors to use from a reliability, noise
> and maintenance perspective. I need to think about power, sensors and
> radio/audio. I realise that this may introduce some unreliability into the
> system - just wondering if I were to do this, what are the best type of
> connectors to use.
> Thanks - Allan
>
> *
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Z12 Alternator Amps |
Regarding the unexpected slowly rising to too high current reading when
switching to the backup alternator, one thing I would check for is that
the wrong shunt is in the alternate alternator current patch (leading to
the high, but I suspect false, reading) and that the
indicator/glass-panel has a very strong low-pass response (leading to
the slow rise).
Steve Stearns
Boulder/Longmont, Colorado
CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less)
Restoring (since 1/07) and flying again (8/11!): N45FC O235 Longeze
Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs)
Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D
Message 4
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Subject: | grounding procedures |
hi all,
lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i am
finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher octane
mogas than i can get at the airport.
anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt pump
mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a handheld
switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is transferred thru
vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter. pumps a gallon a
minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe [all tanks are
grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground the pump or
hoses. any advice would be appreciated.
bob noffs
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
My understanding is that the greatest danger comes from a spark
jumping between the container and the filler neck.
To prevent that, I always very consciously keep the spout in contact
with the filler neck. When I'm finished filling, I methodically drag
the spout away from the opening before breaking contact. That way, if
a spark jumps the gap, it doesn't happen near the filler opening.
The worst accident I've heard of (I met the victim) illustrates some
valuable lessons. He was pouring fuel from a bucket through a funnel
into a wing. He got the spark/flash, and it wouldn't have been as
horrible if he hadn't instinctively jumped back and spilled the bucket
all over himself. He's lucky to be alive but he'll never be the same.
So another point is to use a closed container with a smallish neck
and opening. That way the flash doesn't ignite the entire volume, and
it doesn't spill as fast if it's dropped.
I've been told that grounding a plastic container is very difficult.
I'm curious to hear what others have to say.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i am
> finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher octane mogas
> than i can get at the airport.
> anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt pump
> mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a handheld
> switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is transferred thru
> vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter. pumps a gallon a
> minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe [all tanks are
> grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground the pump or hoses.
> any advice would be appreciated.
> bob noffs
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
On 07/10/2012 12:37 PM, bob noffs wrote:
i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe
> [all tanks are grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground
> the pump or hoses. any advice would be appreciated.
Hi Bob,
If you don't mind spending a small amount of money, might I suggest a
different container?
The really cheap option if you want to continue using a 5 gallon
container, is an all metal safety can, such as:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/eagle-safety-gas-can-5-gal--3958668
Drill a hole in the handle and attach a flexible grounding wire (Lowes,
about $19)
http://www.lowes.com/pd_348276-273-5977001_0__?productId=3645156&Ntt=steel+cable&pl=1¤tURL=&facetInfo
For something a little more fancy, search for "portable fuel caddy" on
Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=15+gallon+fuel+tank#/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=portable+fuel+caddy&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aportable+fuel+caddy
I ended up buying a 15 gallon metal fuel container from the local
Tractor Supply store, mounted it in my truck, and added one of their 12v
GPI EZ-8 Fuel Pumps, which uses conductive hoses. I attached a
grounding line between the the tank and pump, and to the aircraft (using
the Lowes steel cable above and a simple spring clamp for the airplane
end), and since the fuel pump uses conductive hoses it also provides
another path for grounding. I probably have $300 in total for this
setup, but it is arguably as "safe" as the airport's fuel truck in terms
of grounding, and I can use it for all of the toys at home, too.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/gpi-reg-ez-8-fuel-pump-1-10-hp-3-4-in-inlet-3858004
http://www.egascans.com/15-gallon-gas-cans/
I'd be very concerned using a plastic fuel can, and vinyl transfer
line, neither of which can be grounded safely.
-Dj
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
At 11:37 AM 7/10/2012, you wrote:
hi all,
lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and
i am finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher
octane mogas than i can get at the airport.
anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt
pump mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a
handheld switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is
transferred thru vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter.
pumps a gallon a minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust
pipe [all tanks are grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to
ground the pump or hoses. any advice would be appreciated.
I had this conversation with fellow who stopped in
at our airport for fuel way back when. He was flying
one of the Rutan Ez airplanes (all plastic) and as
I fueled him, he expressed concerns about vapor fires
while transferring fuel in the hangar next to his house.
I suggested that one could take a cue from the heavy
iron airplanes fitted with single point fueling ports.
You can avoid vapor/spillage issues entirely when
access to the tanks is fitted with a auto shut-off quick-
connect like those used in hydraulic systems:
[]
The fitting might even replace the tank's water drains.
You could craft a water-inspection tool to access this port
and fit your fuel transfer hose with the mating fitting.
Remove the fuel cap to fill. You can watch down the filler
cap to effect the appropriate time to shut off flow but
without placing anything conductive and/or static prone in
the vicinity of the filler cap.
He thought he would do that for his airplane . . . but never
saw him again or got any feedback on the technique. Seems
like one could fill a tank with zero chance for spilled fuel
and/or generation of sparks near the vented vapors.
If it's good for a Boeing or a Hawker, it might be just as
good for an RV.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
This is a very worth while thread.... as some time or another, fueling with
portable containers can bite you...
Some suggestions to add to others replying.....
* be especially aware of the static spark problem on hotter, drier days..
* the flowing fuel itself generates static voltage, again, dry days are
worse.
* some insert a type of copper ground wire inside the fueling line itself so
that it is in contact with the fuel from end to end; plastic container to
funnel and aircraft.
* plastic containers as mentioned before are the worst for fueling when they
are used directly on the wing pouring. If on the end of an extended fuel
hose via a pump, that is different but, still a problem as the vinyl hose
could easily build up a static charge. That is where the copper wire
running the whole length inside the hose would help drain off any building
charge.
* again, as mentioned earlier it is important to figure a method to ground
the fuel contain, hoses, etc. to the tank being filled. If done properly,
no static of any consequence should build to the point of a discharge.
Hopefully, others will add to and correct this list.
I also have a personal example of what this kind of accident can do. A
local gal, who was a 1st class ultralights pilot and instructor, was filling
her wing tank via a plastic container on a warm, dry day in Oregon. A spark
jumped, fire ensued instantly and she too accidently got fuel splashed on
her as she jumped down. Ultralights was a total loss and she spent years
trying to get her body damage corrected with surgery. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Saylor" <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: grounding procedures
> <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
>
> My understanding is that the greatest danger comes from a spark
> jumping between the container and the filler neck.
>
> To prevent that, I always very consciously keep the spout in contact
> with the filler neck. When I'm finished filling, I methodically drag
> the spout away from the opening before breaking contact. That way, if
> a spark jumps the gap, it doesn't happen near the filler opening.
>
> The worst accident I've heard of (I met the victim) illustrates some
> valuable lessons. He was pouring fuel from a bucket through a funnel
> into a wing. He got the spark/flash, and it wouldn't have been as
> horrible if he hadn't instinctively jumped back and spilled the bucket
> all over himself. He's lucky to be alive but he'll never be the same.
> So another point is to use a closed container with a smallish neck
> and opening. That way the flash doesn't ignite the entire volume, and
> it doesn't spill as fast if it's dropped.
>
> I've been told that grounding a plastic container is very difficult.
> I'm curious to hear what others have to say.
>
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hi all,
>> lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i am
>> finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher octane
>> mogas
>> than i can get at the airport.
>> anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt pump
>> mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a handheld
>> switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is transferred thru
>> vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter. pumps a gallon a
>> minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe [all tanks are
>> grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground the pump or
>> hoses.
>> any advice would be appreciated.
>> bob noffs
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Ground jumping on Z-14 |
Sorry if this is too basic but I am wondering about being able to jump star
t my Velocity. I am looking at adding one of the sockets available with pl
ug the standard cables hook to. it is only two screws, but it is a pain to
remove them to gain access to my battery. Now that I have flown (as of Ju
ne 9, 2012) I have noted on one occasion that I left my EFIS on too long an
d drained the batteries....actually my secondary battery, and the system re
ally did not like it. The secondary low voltage light screaming....uh, bli
nking at me was quite bothersome. Once charged up again, it seemed happy.
My question. If I am wiring in one of these sockets do I wire to just one
battery or to both to allow charging of both at the same time or would this
not be the way it worked. Or, wire it to one battery and turn on the cros
sover switch to allow charging of both. Currently I will hook my charger t
o one of the other battery and charge them individually should the need dev
elop. Other than me leaving the EFIS on this has not been an issue as of l
ate since I got past some proof of concept wire and engine experimentation.
This all may be overkill now that it seems my stuff is working pretty well
and the screws are not that big a deal, but I am curious.
Thanks
Chris Barber
Houston
Velocity N17010
Rotary 13b turbo
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Ground jumping on Z-14 |
At 02:40 PM 7/10/2012, you wrote:
Sorry if this is too basic but I am wondering about being able to
jump start my Velocity. I am looking at adding one of the sockets
available with plug the standard cables hook to. it is only two
screws, but it is a pain to remove them to gain access to my
battery. Now that I have flown (as of June 9, 2012) I have noted on
one occasion that I left my EFIS on too long and drained the
batteries....actually my secondary battery, and the system really did
not like it. The secondary low voltage light screaming....uh,
blinking at me was quite bothersome. Once charged up again, it seemed happy.
My question. If I am wiring in one of these sockets do I wire to
just one battery or to both to allow charging of both at the same
time or would this not be the way it worked. Or, wire it to one
battery and turn on the crossover switch to allow charging of
both. Currently I will hook my charger to one of the other battery
and charge them individually should the need develop. Other than me
leaving the EFIS on this has not been an issue as of late since I got
past some proof of concept wire and engine experimentation.
Chris,
Is there AC mains power in your hangar? How about a 3 or
4 pin plug that wires TWO maintainers to your ship's batteries
when plugged in. These are low cost, accurate chargers that
would be isolated from each other during charging/maintaining
the batteries.
I would be helpful to know what architecture you are using
for a dual battery setup. What are your plan-b procedures
for continued flight with a failed alternator? You menion
Z-14 . . . do you have dual alternators on the Rotary engine?
How did you happen to run down both batteries having left
one accessory turned on? If the smaller alternator is having
trouble charging the battery while running accessories on
its bus, you can close the cross-feed contactor and use the
main alternator to get both batteries topped off.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
i am thinking of pushing a copper wire thru the vinyl hose from each end
[an end in the can and an end in the aircraft] and when i get to the metal
pump i am thinking i can clamp the wire between the vinyl tube wall and the
metal barb on the pump. the pump will then be grounded. also ground the
plane. how bout that?
bob noffs
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:20 PM, David Lloyd <skywagon@charter.net> wrote:
> skywagon@charter.net>
>
> This is a very worth while thread.... as some time or another, fueling
> with portable containers can bite you...
> Some suggestions to add to others replying.....
>
> * be especially aware of the static spark problem on hotter, drier days..
> * the flowing fuel itself generates static voltage, again, dry days are
> worse.
> * some insert a type of copper ground wire inside the fueling line itself
> so that it is in contact with the fuel from end to end; plastic container
> to funnel and aircraft.
> * plastic containers as mentioned before are the worst for fueling when
> they are used directly on the wing pouring. If on the end of an extended
> fuel hose via a pump, that is different but, still a problem as the vinyl
> hose could easily build up a static charge. That is where the copper wire
> running the whole length inside the hose would help drain off any building
> charge.
> * again, as mentioned earlier it is important to figure a method to ground
> the fuel contain, hoses, etc. to the tank being filled. If done properly,
> no static of any consequence should build to the point of a discharge.
>
> Hopefully, others will add to and correct this list.
>
> I also have a personal example of what this kind of accident can do. A
> local gal, who was a 1st class ultralights pilot and instructor, was
> filling her wing tank via a plastic container on a warm, dry day in Oregon.
> A spark jumped, fire ensued instantly and she too accidently got fuel
> splashed on her as she jumped down. Ultralights was a total loss and she
> spent years trying to get her body damage corrected with surgery. Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Saylor" <dave.saylor.aircrafters@
> **gmail.com <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.**com <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: grounding procedures
>
>
>> dave.saylor.aircrafters@**gmail.com <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>>
>>
>> My understanding is that the greatest danger comes from a spark
>> jumping between the container and the filler neck.
>>
>> To prevent that, I always very consciously keep the spout in contact
>> with the filler neck. When I'm finished filling, I methodically drag
>> the spout away from the opening before breaking contact. That way, if
>> a spark jumps the gap, it doesn't happen near the filler opening.
>>
>> The worst accident I've heard of (I met the victim) illustrates some
>> valuable lessons. He was pouring fuel from a bucket through a funnel
>> into a wing. He got the spark/flash, and it wouldn't have been as
>> horrible if he hadn't instinctively jumped back and spilled the bucket
>> all over himself. He's lucky to be alive but he'll never be the same.
>> So another point is to use a closed container with a smallish neck
>> and opening. That way the flash doesn't ignite the entire volume, and
>> it doesn't spill as fast if it's dropped.
>>
>> I've been told that grounding a plastic container is very difficult.
>> I'm curious to hear what others have to say.
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>> 831-750-0284 CL
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hi all,
>>> lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i am
>>> finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher octane
>>> mogas
>>> than i can get at the airport.
>>> anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt pump
>>> mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a handheld
>>> switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is transferred thru
>>> vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter. pumps a gallon a
>>> minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe [all tanks are
>>> grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground the pump or
>>> hoses.
>>> any advice would be appreciated.
>>> bob noffs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
Hi Bob,
I has a similar set up a while ago. I believe the danger is static
produced by the flow of fuel through the plastic hose, with a charge
building up on the nozzle jumping to the airplane and igniting and
vapour near the filler neck.
I used a piece of copper plumbing pipe as a filler spout and soldered
some thick speaker cable to it. I connected that to the airplane exhaust
to make the airplane and filler spout at the same potential. I also used
steel fuel cans and ran the speaker wire. wound around the pipe, back to
the filler can and connected with a large croc clip. The pump motor was
also hooked up to avoid any static build up. You can also connect the
whole lot to a steel stake in the ground if you really want to.
I used a small 7ah battery to power the whole thing - it would pump
5gals in about 3 minutes. It worked quite well.
Hope this helps, Peter
On 10/07/2012 17:37, bob noffs wrote:
> hi all,
> lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i
> am finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher
> octane mogas than i can get at the airport.
> anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12 volt
> pump mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a
> handheld switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is
> transferred thru vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter.
> pumps a gallon a minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe
> [all tanks are grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to
> ground the pump or hoses. any advice would be appreciated.
> bob noffs
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Ground jumping on Z-14 |
At 02:40 PM 7/10/2012, you wrote:
Sorry if this is too basic but I am wondering about being able to
jump start my Velocity.
I missed this . . . if you want to actually crank the
engine using ground power, you'll need a robust connector
capable of carrying the current. You only need to connect
it to the main battery in Z-14 . . . the aux battery gets
connected too by closing the battery master switches and
cross-feed contactors.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
Don't use a plastic gas can! Replace it with a steel one. You can't
afford to use cheap parts, equipment, on airplanes. :-)
Also, if you are flying a composite plane, the the gas cap filler ring
is not grounded unless the builder ran a ground wire to the ships
ground. When filling from a steel can, touch the nozzle to the ring and
your body is ground to earth. Do this even when filling off a truck or
fuel island. You only get one chance!
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: grounding procedures
i am thinking of pushing a copper wire thru the vinyl hose from each
end [an end in the can and an end in the aircraft] and when i get to the
metal pump i am thinking i can clamp the wire between the vinyl tube
wall and the metal barb on the pump. the pump will then be grounded.
also ground the plane. how bout that?
bob noffs
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:20 PM, David Lloyd <skywagon@charter.net>
wrote:
<skywagon@charter.net>
This is a very worth while thread.... as some time or another,
fueling with portable containers can bite you...
Some suggestions to add to others replying.....
* be especially aware of the static spark problem on hotter, drier
days..
* the flowing fuel itself generates static voltage, again, dry days
are worse.
* some insert a type of copper ground wire inside the fueling line
itself so that it is in contact with the fuel from end to end; plastic
container to funnel and aircraft.
* plastic containers as mentioned before are the worst for fueling
when they are used directly on the wing pouring. If on the end of an
extended fuel hose via a pump, that is different but, still a problem as
the vinyl hose could easily build up a static charge. That is where the
copper wire running the whole length inside the hose would help drain
off any building charge.
* again, as mentioned earlier it is important to figure a method to
ground the fuel contain, hoses, etc. to the tank being filled. If done
properly, no static of any consequence should build to the point of a
discharge.
Hopefully, others will add to and correct this list.
I also have a personal example of what this kind of accident can do.
A local gal, who was a 1st class ultralights pilot and instructor, was
filling her wing tank via a plastic container on a warm, dry day in
Oregon. A spark jumped, fire ensued instantly and she too accidently
got fuel splashed on her as she jumped down. Ultralights was a total
loss and she spent years trying to get her body damage corrected with
surgery. Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Saylor"
<dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: grounding procedures
<dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
My understanding is that the greatest danger comes from a spark
jumping between the container and the filler neck.
To prevent that, I always very consciously keep the spout in
contact
with the filler neck. When I'm finished filling, I methodically
drag
the spout away from the opening before breaking contact. That
way, if
a spark jumps the gap, it doesn't happen near the filler opening.
The worst accident I've heard of (I met the victim) illustrates
some
valuable lessons. He was pouring fuel from a bucket through a
funnel
into a wing. He got the spark/flash, and it wouldn't have been as
horrible if he hadn't instinctively jumped back and spilled the
bucket
all over himself. He's lucky to be alive but he'll never be the
same.
So another point is to use a closed container with a smallish neck
and opening. That way the flash doesn't ignite the entire volume,
and
it doesn't spill as fast if it's dropped.
I've been told that grounding a plastic container is very
difficult.
I'm curious to hear what others have to say.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
wrote:
hi all,
lately i have been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans
and i am
finding it not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher
octane mogas
than i can get at the airport.
anyway.............i need some advice on grounding.i have a 12
volt pump
mounted and it is powered by a battery 20 feet away. i have a
handheld
switch . i set the plastic can on the table and fuel is
transferred thru
vinyl tubing. at the airplane end is a metal filter. pumps a
gallon a
minute. i plan to set up a ground to the exhaust pipe [all tanks
are
grounded to the engine] but i do not know how to ground the
pump or hoses.
any advice would be appreciated.
bob noffs
-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: grounding procedures |
Smoe thing that was determined awhile back- by the CAFE foundation was th
at the best way to get rid of static was to wipe around the fuel cap with a
damp rag before fueling.- This is what i do with my Glasair=0AJim=0A=0A
-=0AJames Robinson=0AGlasair lll N79R=0ASpanish Fork UT U77=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0A From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>=0ATo: a
eroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:19 PM=0ASu
bject: Re: AeroElectric-List: grounding procedures=0A =0A=0Ai am thinking o
f pushing a copper wire thru the vinyl hose from each end [an end in the ca
n and an end in the aircraft] and when i get to the metal pump i am thinkin
g i can clamp the wire between the vinyl tube wall and the metal barb on th
e pump. the pump will then be grounded. also ground the plane. how bout tha
t?=0A-bob noffs=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:20 PM, David Lloyd <sky
vid Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>=0A>=0A>This is a very worth while thread.
... as some time or another, fueling with portable containers can bite you.
..=0A>Some suggestions to add to others replying.....=0A>=0A>* be especiall
y aware of the static spark problem on hotter, drier days..=0A>* the flowin
g fuel itself generates static voltage, again, dry days are worse.=0A>* som
e insert a type of copper ground wire inside the fueling line itself so tha
t it is in contact with the fuel from end to end; plastic container to funn
el and aircraft.=0A>* plastic containers as mentioned before are the worst
for fueling when they are used directly on the wing pouring. -If on the e
nd of an extended fuel hose via a pump, that is different but, still a prob
lem as the vinyl hose could easily build up a static charge. -That is whe
re the copper wire running the whole length inside the hose would help drai
n off any building charge.=0A>* again, as mentioned earlier it is important
to figure a method to ground the fuel contain, hoses, etc. to the tank bei
ng filled. -If -done properly, no static of any consequence should buil
d to the point of a discharge.=0A>=0A>Hopefully, others will add to and cor
rect this list.=0A>=0A>I also have a personal example of what this kind of
accident can do. -A local gal, who was a 1st class ultralights pilot and
instructor, was filling her wing tank via a plastic container on a warm, dr
y day in Oregon. -A spark jumped, fire ensued instantly and she too accid
ently got fuel splashed on her as she jumped down. -Ultralights was a tot
al loss and she spent years trying to get her body damage corrected with su
rgery. -Dave=0A>=0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Saylor"
<dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>=0A>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>=0A>Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:54 AM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-Lis
t: grounding procedures=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>--> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>=0A>>=0A>>My understand
ing is that the greatest danger comes from a spark=0A>>jumping between the
container and the filler neck.=0A>>=0A>>To prevent that, I always very cons
ciously keep the spout in contact=0A>>with the filler neck. -When I'm fin
ished filling, I methodically drag=0A>>the spout away from the opening befo
re breaking contact. -That way, if=0A>>a spark jumps the gap, it doesn't
happen near the filler opening.=0A>>=0A>>The worst accident I've heard of (
I met the victim) illustrates some=0A>>valuable lessons. -He was pouring
fuel from a bucket through a funnel=0A>>into a wing. -He got the spark/fl
ash, and it wouldn't have been as=0A>>horrible if he hadn't instinctively j
umped back and spilled the bucket=0A>>all over himself. -He's lucky to be
alive but he'll never be the same.=0A>>So another point is to use a closed
container with a smallish neck=0A>>and opening. -That way the flash does
n't ignite the entire volume, and=0A>>it doesn't spill as fast if it's drop
ped.=0A>>=0A>>I've been told that grounding a plastic container is very dif
ficult.=0A>>I'm curious to hear what others have to say.=0A>>=0A>>Dave Sayl
or=0A>>831-750-0284-CL=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:37 AM
, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>hi all,=0A>>>-lately i hav
e been filling my plane out of 5 gal. plastic cans and i am=0A>>>finding it
not too time consuming. the biggest reason is higher octane mogas=0A>>>tha
n i can get at the airport.=0A>>>-anyway.............i need some advice o
n grounding.i have a 12 volt pump=0A>>>mounted and it is powered by a batte
ry 20 feet away. i have a handheld=0A>>>switch . i set the plastic can on t
he table and fuel is transferred thru=0A>>>vinyl tubing. at the airplane en
d is a metal filter. pumps a gallon a=0A>>>minute. i plan to set up a groun
d to the exhaust pipe [all tanks are=0A>>>grounded to the engine] but i do
not know how to ground - the pump or hoses.=0A>>>any advice would be appr
eciated.=0A>>>=0A-bob noffs=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=======================
==============0A>-List" target="_blank">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List=0A>========
====0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>==========
==0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A>=======================
=============
Message 16
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Subject: | OT: batteries in series on maintainer |
Greetings,
I recall a prohibition on charging batteries in series at the series
voltage. I have 2 6V sealed lead/acid batteries. I would like to hook
the series connected 6V batteries in parallel with several 12V lead/acid
batteries on a maintainer. They would be fully charged before I put
them on the maintainer. I would consider holding the voltage in the 6V
batteries at 80% of full charge acceptable.
Thanks for any insight/advice/warnings.
do not archive
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
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