Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Re: Strobe switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Strobe switches (Fisher Paul A.)
3. 07:44 AM - Copper Bar (JOHN TIPTON)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Copper Bar (Ron Burnett)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Strobe switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:55 AM - Re: Strobe switches (Fisher Paul A.)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Copper Bar (Jeff Luckey)
8. 10:17 AM - Re: Strobe switches (Tim Andres)
9. 10:57 AM - Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 (JohnInReno)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Strobe switches |
At 09:44 AM 1/23/2014, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>At 07:38 PM 1/22/2014, you wrote:
>>
>>Yes I still have the problem system and would be happy to send to you.
>>Just let me know the address and it's on it's way. No return required.
>
> Sure.
>
> P.O. Box 130, Medicine Lodge, Ks, 67104-0130
I received Bill's strobe supply and began
to research its pedigree. Seems to be a custom
device designed for Creativair (now defunct)
and manufactured by Nova.
The nameplate says 10-30 volts input
which speaks to a modern, switchmode
power supply topology. It also says
70 watts in, 60 watts out and input
current of 5.5A.
Of course, that 5.5A figure is accurate
only at the bus voltage where 70 watts
of demand is satisfied or 70/5.5=12.7
volts. At a bus voltage of 14 volts or
more, input current would be expected to
fall to about 5A. IN a 28v airplane, the
current would be about half that.
Bill says he supplied this device through
a 7A fuse which held solid while other
devices in the supply line were less
happy about the nature of demands on
their capabilities.
We would probably do well to compile
a listing of switch/terminal failures
in strobe systems.
Bill, would you repeat your narrative
of what items in your strobe supply path
failed . . . along with your best guess
as to the epicenter of the failures?
How many instances did you experience
before you replaced the power supply?
Bob . . .
Message 2
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If this is the "AVI-PAK" sold by CreativAir, then I have one too. Mine has been
in service for about 3.5 years (300+ flight hours) and I haven't noticed any
problems... so far! Last inspection was in July, and as soon as it warms up
a little, I'll inspect all of the connections again just to be sure nothing is
sneaking up on me.
I'd be very interested in any analysis of this device and what, if anything, we
can do to prevent re-occurrence of this issue.
Paul A. Fisher
RV-7A N18PF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe switches
...snip...
I received Bill's strobe supply and began
to research its pedigree. Seems to be a custom
device designed for Creativair (now defunct)
and manufactured by Nova.
...snip
Message 3
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Hi Guys=0A=0AIs this suitable for the Contactor connections, ANL fuse link
etc, or is 3mm thickness too much=0A=0Ahttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3906923406
35?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649=0A=0A=0ABest r
egards=0A=0AJohn (RV9a - work in progress)=0A
Message 4
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As suggested once by Mr. Bob, you can put a piece of copper pipe in a vise.
Works great.
Ron Burnett
RV-6A
Sent from my iPad
May you have the blessings of the Lord today.
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:40 AM, JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Is this suitable for the Contactor connections, ANL fuse link etc, or is 3
mm thickness too much
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390692340635?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trks
id=p3984.m1436.l2649
>
> Best regards
>
> John (RV9a - work in progress)
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 5
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At 07:58 AM 1/28/2014, you wrote:
><FisherPaulA@johndeere.com>
>
>If this is the "AVI-PAK" sold by CreativAir, then I have one
>too. Mine has been in service for about 3.5 years (300+ flight
>hours) and I haven't noticed any problems... so far! Last
>inspection was in July, and as soon as it warms up a little, I'll
>inspect all of the connections again just to be sure nothing is
>sneaking up on me.
>
>I'd be very interested in any analysis of this device and what, if
>anything, we can do to prevent re-occurrence of this issue.
Good idea. I'd also like to 'bicycle' the DAS
system to you and get some data off your
as-installed system.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Absolutely. Happy to help.
- Paul
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Strobe switches
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 07:58 AM 1/28/2014, you wrote:
><FisherPaulA@johndeere.com>
>
>If this is the "AVI-PAK" sold by CreativAir, then I have one too. Mine
>has been in service for about 3.5 years (300+ flight
>hours) and I haven't noticed any problems... so far! Last inspection
>was in July, and as soon as it warms up a little, I'll inspect all of
>the connections again just to be sure nothing is sneaking up on me.
>
>I'd be very interested in any analysis of this device and what, if
>anything, we can do to prevent re-occurrence of this issue.
Good idea. I'd also like to 'bicycle' the DAS
system to you and get some data off your
as-installed system.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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|
John,=0A=0A3mm is about 1/8 of an inch (if my math is correct) and that thi
ckness is more than enough to handle starter current - if you bussing does
not need to handle that much current then you could go w/ thinner material.
- =0A=0AAnother consideration is that copper oxidizes very quickly so you
need to make sure that the connections are very clean when you assemble.
- In industry, copper bussbars are commonly plated w/ either silver or ti
n to protect against poor connection quality due to oxidation.=0A=0ABrass i
s another material commonly used in electrical busses & devices and it does
not oxidize as quickly and is less expensive.- I just made some bussbars
from .050 brass (they were not in the starter circuit) and the brass was e
asy to work with & cheaper than the equivalent copper.=0A=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: JOHN TIPTON <jmtipton@btopenwo
rld.com>=0ATo: "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list@matroni
cs.com> =0ASent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 7:40 AM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-
List: Copper Bar=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Guys=0A=0AIs this suitable for the Contacto
r connections, ANL fuse link etc, or is 3mm thickness too much=0A=0Ahttp://
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390692340635?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p39
84.m1436.l2649=0A=0A=0ABest regards=0A=0AJohn (RV9a - work in progress)=0A
====================
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: Strobe switches |
Creative-air/Avi-pak here also, 240 hrs, two years, no issues. However, it's been
on a Bosch cube relay since day one.
Tim
> On Jan 28, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
>
> At 07:58 AM 1/28/2014, you wrote:
>>
>> If this is the "AVI-PAK" sold by CreativAir, then I have one too. Mine has
been in service for about 3.5 years (300+ flight hours) and I haven't noticed
any problems... so far! Last inspection was in July, and as soon as it warms
up a little, I'll inspect all of the connections again just to be sure nothing
is sneaking up on me.
>>
>> I'd be very interested in any analysis of this device and what, if anything,
we can do to prevent re-occurrence of this issue.
>
> Good idea. I'd also like to 'bicycle' the DAS
> system to you and get some data off your
> as-installed system.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 |
I posted the following comment at Enersys.
> I am having very bad luck with PC-680 batteries for use in a Vans Aircraft RV9A.
> Purchased a PC-680 on 9/18/12 from Vans Aircraft.
> Purchased a PC-680 on 9/13/13 from Aircraft Spruce.
> Purchased a PC-680 on 1/22/14 from Batteries Plus in Chandler, AZ.
> The airworthiness certificate was issued July 3, 2013 and I have about 75 hours
on the plane. The latest failure left me stranded at the Chandler, AZ airport
far from home. Is there any warranty on this?
>
>
Batteries #1 and #2 were religiously maintained on a Schumacher 1562A. The Odyssey
Battery Approved 12V Charger List has this:
SC-2500A (no longer in production)
"No other Schumacher branded chargers are approved by ODYSSEY"
Battery #2 would not turn the starter but did operate the panel and fuel pump.
After charging at the local FBO, it showed 12.5+ volts but dropped to 8v in 3
seconds under load. This symptom was confirmed when I purchased #3 at Batteries
Plus.
I believe that Odyssey is saying that the Schumacher killed the battery after only
3 months.
This is the response from Odyssey:
Hello John,
Thank you for contacting EnerSys/ODYSSEY.
Unfortunately, due to the multiple consistent failures, this would indicate that
the PC680 battery is not suited for your application or that it is not being
properly maintained or charged. Charging and maintenance information has been
provided below.
The PC680 powersports battery has a two year warranty (attached) for manufacturing
defects. The warranty procedure requires that the battery be returned to the
point of purchase (preferred) or to a participating ODYSSEY dealer or distributor
for warranty support. No ODYSSEY dealer is required to offer assistance.
It is not what we want to see but it is a fact. Batteries Plus, for example,
has a policy of not warranting product not sold form one of their locations.
Once received at a location, the battery voltage has to be a minimum of at least
8.0V, have a purchase date based on a receipt or ship date code date within
the warranty period, and fails attempted recovery. If the battery is at least
8.0V, is returned within the warranty period, is not recoverable, and shows no
signs of abuse or neglect such as bulging from overheating, overcharging or
damage due to mishandling, the battery can be warranted. If the location will
the warranty the battery then the battery can be warranted by the factory based
on the information provided by the supporting location.
Charge maintenance is critical to maximizing the life and performance of any battery
including the ODYSSEY battery. Here is a little ODYSSEY Battery 101
Most batteries including AGMs are considered fully charged at 12.6-12.7V. This
is not so for the TPPL AGM ODYSSEY battery. The usable energy of the ODYSSEY battery
is from 11.2V (0% state of charge) OCV to 12.84V OCV (Open Circuit Voltage
should be checked after a minimum of 6-8 hours rest period with no loads)
or higher. When the battery goes below 10.0V OCV, you are getting into the chemical
part of the battery and can cause permanent damage. At less than 8.0V the
ODYSSEY limited warranty deems the battery over-discharged due to abuse or neglect,
usually unintentional. At less than 6.0V the battery can develop reversed
cells and once reversed, the cells cannot be reversed back. If the battery
becomes over-discharged (below 11.0V OCV), then the sooner the battery can be
fully charged properly, the better. If the battery remains connected to the
application during storage for extended periods of non-use, an ODYSSEY program
approved 12V maintainer can be used to prevent over-discharge and maintain the
battery at a full state of charge and counteract the parasitic loads of the
application. There is a link to a list of ODYSSEY program approved 12V chargers
(and maintainers) linked on the ODYSSEY website Product Support page for your
reference.
The list of approved 12V chargers is provided due to the many chargers that are
programmed for the vast majority of batteries on the market that prefer low amp
charging and lower float voltages that do not fully charge or maintain the
ODYSSEY battery properly. The recommended charging current for an ODYSSEY battery
is 40% of the 10 hour amp hour rating of the battery for cyclic or deep discharge
applications (about 6A for a single 16Ah PC680), a constant float voltage
of 13.5-13.8V (printed on the top label of the battery) and no constant voltages
exceeding 15.0V in any kind of de-sulfation/reconditioning/equalize mode.
At greater than 15.0V the battery can overcharge, overheat, and/or go into
thermal runaway. Maintaining the battery at less than 13.5V will bring the battery
down and maintain it in an undercharged condition causing premature sulfation
and premature failure.
For seasonal applications (non-daily use applications that set for more than 3
days in a row frequently) regular use of an approved maintainer that meets the
charge voltage requirements noted in the previous paragraph is highly recommended
during the season. The preferred storage method is to fully charge the battery
before storing and disconnect the battery from the application (shelf storage
mode). Stored in or out of the application fully charged, with no loads,
the battery would not require charging for up to 2 years at 77F or until it reaches
12.0V, whichever comes first. The self discharge rate increases significantly
for temperatures above 25C (77F) and for every 10C (18F) temperature increase
the storage time to recharge is decreased by half. Charge maintenance is
critical to maximizing the life and performance of the battery. Freezing will
not harm the battery and self discharge rates reduce significantly at colder
temperatures.
It is recommended that the ODYSSEY battery be charged if it is less than 12.65V
when put into use per the ODYSSEY Owners Manual (link provided on website Literature
page for your reference). Most standard alternators/stators are not meant
to be deep discharge recovery chargers and can damage the alternator/stator
as well as not fully charging the battery with limited use. The Cyclic Charge
Voltage range printed on the top label of the battery is the recommended voltage
at the battery from the applications charging system (alternator or stator).
At less than 14.1V the battery may not be getting fully charged for infrequently
used applications. You can verify the battery voltage by checking the
voltage at the battery at least 8 hours after application use (or off charge)
and if the battery voltage is not at least 12.84V then the battery is not considered
fully charged. Voltage readings taken right off charge or after use (alternator/stator
charging) will be inflated and inaccurate so for a true OCV reading,
you should wait at least 8 hours before checking the voltage (OCV) with
24 hour rest period being preferred.
Simply put, if you have a maintainer that has a high enough charging current to
counteract any parasitic loads of the application and maintain the battery between
13.5-13.8V at the battery and does not exceed 15.0V in any kind of automatic
reconditioning/equalize/de-sulfation mode, it can be used to maintain the
battery indefinitely without harming the ODYSSEY battery. If you do not have
an acceptable maintainer or you have not been using and acceptable maintainer
consistently enough, then that may be your primary issue.
I hope this information gives you an understanding of the product. Please contact
me if you have any questions, concerns or need further assistance.
Sincerely,
cid:image003.jpg@01CE6B76.5D725510
Kathy Mitchell
ODYSSEY Sales/Support Representative
Phone: 660-429-7551
Toll Free: 888-422-0317
Fax: 660-429-1758
Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com
Web site: www.odysseybattery.com
Corp site: www.enersys.com
--------
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417784#417784
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/odysseyapproved12vchargersoct2013_172.pdf
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