Commander-List Digest Archive

Thu 07/14/05


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:25 AM - Re: Finished restoration (nico css)
     2. 06:30 AM - Re: Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann)
     3. 07:06 AM - Re: Finished restoration (Phil Stubbs)
     4. 07:22 AM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe)
     5. 07:33 AM - Re: Finished restoration (Moe)
     6. 07:43 AM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft@aol.com)
     7. 09:41 AM - flap position transmitter (Dan Farmer)
     8. 09:49 AM - Re: Finished restoration (Lowell Girod)
     9. 10:09 AM - Re: Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann)
    10. 10:10 AM - List Digest Truncation Fixed!! (Matt Dralle)
    11. 11:21 AM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Jerry Sprayberry)
    12. 11:33 AM - Re: flap position transmitter (Jim Addington)
    13. 01:34 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Bill Bow)
    14. 02:02 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Ricardo Otaola)
    15. 03:09 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe)
    16. 04:08 PM - September Fly-in (Stan)
    17. 05:09 PM - Re: Finished restoration (nico css)
    18. 06:04 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann)
    19. 07:22 PM - Re: September Fly-in (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
    20. 07:25 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
    21. 07:26 PM - Re: flap position transmitter (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
    22. 07:32 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft@aol.com)
    23. 07:56 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Jim Addington)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:25:40 AM PST US
    From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com> Hi Chris, Truly a nice airplane, an honest workhorse with plentiful spares around the world. It makes it special if it has so much of one's own sweat in it. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> > > > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander > friends anyway. > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. > > cheers > Chris Schuermann > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US
    From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> Wow! Thanks for all the kind words from everyone. Guess Apache/Aztecs are kinda like old girlfriends. Just about everyone has some fond memories .... just some of us went on to marry them :-) I've enjoyed the restoration process but am definitly ready to get back to the flying stuff. I'm also still looking for the designer at Piper who decided to build up the firewall around the engine mount and rivet it in place so I can punch him in the nose! Chris


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:06:41 AM PST US
    From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil@mindspring.com> I got my multi in N114DA, serial #14(they skipped 13) which is now at the Air & Space annex at Dulles awaiting display. My instructer would load it to gross on a summer day and shut down an engine and fly around on one for an hour or so. His theory was that if you fly a 150 Apache under those conditions you cold fly any twin safely. > [Original Message] > From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Date: 7/13/2005 10:27:27 PM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration > > --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net> > > As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can > truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane. > I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from > flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one > week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache > instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration. > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy > Dettmer, AIA > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > <rcdettmer@charter.net> > > Hey Chris, > Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache > we > called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft > spot > in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings > back > great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!! > > Randy Dettmer > 680F/N6253X > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris > Schuermann > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > <cschuerm@cox.net> > > > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander > friends anyway. > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. > > cheers > Chris Schuermann > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:22:41 AM PST US
    From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com> Wing Commander Gordon, Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. For about the first 400 hours I used the mag switches to shut off the engines rather than going to idle cut off. I stopped doing this because one theory said that doing this was too hard on the reduction gear attaching bolts. Since then the procedure has been fuel shut off and mags off. After the engine stops, go to full rich, throttles 1/2 open, fuel boost for about 10 seconds, master switch off. As I understand the system, this should keep everything wet. Thank you very much for the suggestions, and if you (or anyone else) has further suggestions please give them to me. Regards, Moe N680RR ----- Original Message ----- From: <CloudCraft@aol.com> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time, > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre. > > Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal? > Moe, > > You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a > bunch. > > Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder. > > What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F > series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of pulling > the mixtures to idle. > > As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain > mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so the > diaphragms don't dry out. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:33:25 AM PST US
    From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com> Chris, A thing of beauty is a joy forever! (except for my first wife of course). Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that they had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had. One of the guys at Hawthorne, CA airport has one and it has the four cylinder engines with aftermarket turbochargers. Which engines do you have, and what is the horsepower rating? Regards Moe N680RR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> > > > Wow! Thanks for all the kind words from everyone. Guess Apache/Aztecs > are kinda like old girlfriends. Just about everyone has some fond > memories .... just some of us went on to marry them :-) > > I've enjoyed the restoration process but am definitly ready to get back > to the flying stuff. I'm also still looking for the designer at Piper > who decided to build up the firewall around the engine mount and rivet > it in place so I can punch him in the nose! > > Chris > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:43:05 AM PST US
    From: CloudCraft@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. > > Moe, That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had been done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job. Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is. I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. Anyone else on this net? I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all systems, that I've heard. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:41:22 AM PST US
    From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
    Subject: flap position transmitter
    --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for my 500B. it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If anyone knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or does anyone know where mine might be repaired. dan farmer 6369U Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07-13.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07-13.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/13/05: 6 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:17 PM - Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe) 2. 06:51 PM - Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann) 3. 06:59 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 4. 07:27 PM - Re: Finished restoration () 5. 07:33 PM - Re: Finished restoration (RRamm52@cs.com) 6. 08:03 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:31 PM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Gents, After flying N680RR for almost 700 hours I have gone through five Simmonds fuel pumps. One kept going dead rich and would not adjust so it was rebuilt. About ten hours after being rebuilt it developed an internal leak which pumped the gas back into the crankcase and overfilled the oil sump tank. In flight there was no way of knowing what was going on until the oil pressure went low, and I strongly suspect that this is why the crankshaft and rod bearings had abnormal wear at over haul time. Another one wore to the point that it was impossible to get the proper mixture settings on it. Two pumps with about 400 hours have suddenly developed leaks (not just drips) around the shaft that goes in the side of the pump, for the idle cut off. The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre. Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal? Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:18 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:51 PM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Hey Chris, Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!! Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:37 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane. I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Hey Chris, Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!! Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:21 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:02:28 PM Central Standard Time, rcdettmer@charter.net writes: > http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ Beautiful job, Chris! Very admirable.... Rob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:36 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre. Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal? Moe, You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a bunch. Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder. What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of pulling the mixtures to idle. As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so the diaphragms don't dry out. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:49:59 AM PST US
    From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net> Chris; I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about it. I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true of my Commander. A fine looking bird! Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> > > > > > > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander > > friends anyway. > > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been > > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an > > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of > > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures > > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of > > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ > > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true > > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. > > > > cheers > > Chris Schuermann > > > > > > > --


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:09:32 AM PST US
    From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> Moe wrote: > Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that they > had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had. Moe, The PA-23 line is really two different airplanes. The Apache is a slightly smaller airplane, has an elevator, and uses 150/160hp engines. The Aztec (also a PA-23 oddly) is a bit larger, has a stabilator, and uses 250/260hp 540 lycoming engines. My bird is a bit of an oddity. In the early/mid 60's, Piper had stopped building Apaches and transitioned to the Aztec. As near as I can tell, they decided to leverage the brand loyalty of the Apache name and came out with the "Apache 235". It was simply an Aztec with low compression cylinders. (and yes, early Aztecs had the short round nose). Some Apaches have had the "Geronimo conversion" done which makes them difficult to tell from an Aztec if you don't know them well. They put a longer nose, squared up the tail feathers, and added 180hp O-360 engines. Some were even turbocharged. Pretty neat package. During my engine overhauls, we upgraded to new high-compression cylinder/piston assemblies, cams, etc which basicly creates a carburated equivilant of a 290hp IO-540 (but with straight stacks and augementor tubes :-) chris


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:10:20 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: List Digest Truncation Fixed!!
    --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> Dear Listers, I finally figured out today what was causing the occasional truncation of the daily List Digest emails. Seems that every once in a while a message would contain a single "." (period) on line all by itself. The mailers would see this and assume that this was the universal emailer signal for "end of message", and consequently wouldn't process any of the rest of the Digest message. I've put in a filter today to remove any of these sequences so we should be back in business on the Digests. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:21:16 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611@hotmail.com> Moe: I have just flown a little over 400 Hrs. so I guess I am about due for some trouble, Hope not. The only trouble I have had is one mixture shaft corroded and couldn't shut down the Engine, If I had a can of Corrosion X on board it would have fixed the problem, But I had to do it the hard way send it to Central Cylinder for repair, was down three days in CVG, and a total of $800 I got on my way. I have been shutting down with the Mixtures and then putting them full rich. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <CloudCraft@aol.com> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time, > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) > who > overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. >> >> > Moe, > > That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had > been > done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job. > > Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are > not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is. > > I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. > Anyone > else on this net? > > I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all > systems, that I've heard. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:33:48 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
    Subject: flap position transmitter
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net> Dan, You might try Dallas Air Salvage 1 800 336 6399 they had two 500B's You might call Central Air, they sure helped me a lot. Jim A N444BD -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Farmer Subject: Commander-List: flap position transmitter --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for my 500B. it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If anyone knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or does anyone know where mine might be repaired. dan farmer 6369U Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07 -13.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07 -13.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/13/05: 6 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:17 PM - Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe) 2. 06:51 PM - Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann) 3. 06:59 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 4. 07:27 PM - Re: Finished restoration () 5. 07:33 PM - Re: Finished restoration (RRamm52@cs.com) 6. 08:03 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:31 PM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Gents, After flying N680RR for almost 700 hours I have gone through five Simmonds fuel pumps. One kept going dead rich and would not adjust so it was rebuilt. About ten hours after being rebuilt it developed an internal leak which pumped the gas back into the crankcase and overfilled the oil sump tank. In flight there was no way of knowing what was going on until the oil pressure went low, and I strongly suspect that this is why the crankshaft and rod bearings had abnormal wear at over haul time. Another one wore to the point that it was impossible to get the proper mixture settings on it. Two pumps with about 400 hours have suddenly developed leaks (not just drips) around the shaft that goes in the side of the pump, for the idle cut off. The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre. Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal? Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:18 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:51 PM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Hey Chris, Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!! Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:37 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane. I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Hey Chris, Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!! Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander friends anyway. I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. cheers Chris Schuermann ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:21 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:02:28 PM Central Standard Time, rcdettmer@charter.net writes: > http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ Beautiful job, Chris! Very admirable.... Rob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:36 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre. Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal? Moe, You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a bunch. Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder. What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of pulling the mixtures to idle. As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so the diaphragms don't dry out. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:34:37 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net> I can say from experience that they land REAL smooth with the gear retracted. A National Airlines captain and I did that in N1700U about 30 years ago. There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" > <dongirod@earthlink.net> > > Chris; > > I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about it. > I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have > something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true of > my Commander. > > A fine looking bird! > > Don > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> >> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> >> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration >> >> >> > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > <cschuerm@cox.net> >> > >> > >> > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander >> > friends anyway. >> > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's >> > been >> > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an >> > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of >> > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures >> > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of >> > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ >> > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true >> > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. >> > >> > cheers >> > Chris Schuermann >> > >> > >> >> >> -- > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:02:09 PM PST US
    From: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca@telcel.net.ve>
    Subject: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca@telcel.net.ve> Hi friends: I also have the same fuel units and it is overhauled by the same people. I do not have so many problems really, but then again I only fly about 10 hours a month. I shut down with cut-off and then mags. I leave everything as is. In the past I used to cut-off, then mixture all forward and throttle all forward. I did experience more trouble then but perhaps it was because it was time for overhauling. The problem was not severe, just adjustments. I do clean all filters every 50 hours, and I mean all filters in tha unit. Ussually if you are not treating them right, they will let you know, with higher temperatures, shock cooling, etc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. > > Moe, That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had been done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job. Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is. I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. Anyone else on this net? I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all systems, that I've heard. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:09:21 PM PST US
    From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com> Caprain S. and Ricardo, Thanx for the comments! Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca@telcel.net.ve> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca@telcel.net.ve> > > Hi friends: > > I also have the same fuel units and it is overhauled by the same > people. I do not have so many problems really, but then again I only fly > about 10 hours a month. > > I shut down with cut-off and then mags. I leave everything as is. In > the past I used to cut-off, then mixture all forward and throttle all > forward. I did experience more trouble then but perhaps it was because it > was time for overhauling. The problem was not severe, just adjustments. > > I do clean all filters every 50 hours, and I mean all filters in tha > unit. Ussually if you are not treating them right, they will let you know, > with higher temperatures, shock cooling, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > CloudCraft@aol.com > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps > > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time, > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who > overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. > > > > > Moe, > > That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had been > > done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job. > > Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are > not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is. > > I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. Anyone > else on this net? > > I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all > systems, that I've heard. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 04:08:49 PM PST US
    From: "Stan" <swperk@earthlink.net>
    Subject: September Fly-in
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" <swperk@earthlink.net> Hi JB, Please register my dad and me for the fly-in. Thanks! Stan Perkins N681SP


    Message 17


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    Time: 05:09:44 PM PST US
    From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com> Ouch. In that configuration even a Twin Comanche makes a greaser... Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net> > > I can say from experience that they land REAL smooth with the gear > retracted. A National Airlines captain and I did that in N1700U about 30 > years ago. > > There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again. > > bilbo > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" > > <dongirod@earthlink.net> > > > > Chris; > > > > I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about it. > > I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have > > something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true of > > my Commander. > > > > A fine looking bird! > > > > Don > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> > >> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > >> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration > >> > >> > >> > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > > <cschuerm@cox.net> > >> > > >> > > >> > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander > >> > friends anyway. > >> > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's > >> > been > >> > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an > >> > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of > >> > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures > >> > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of > >> > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ > >> > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true > >> > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product. > >> > > >> > cheers > >> > Chris Schuermann > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > > > > > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:04:38 PM PST US
    From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> Bill Bow wrote: > There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again. Oh...please don't say that! I still havn't peeled the price tags off my purty new Hartzells and am still getting that "new engine" smell from the cowl after shutdown. If I trashed all that by forgetting to put the wheels down I might just go jump off a bridge! (besides, I've told my wife that if that ever happens that it's HER fault :-) cs


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:22:30 PM PST US
    From: YOURTCFG@aol.com
    Subject: Re: September Fly-in
    --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 7/14/2005 4:09:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, swperk@earthlink.net writes: Please register my dad and me for the fly-in. Thanks! Will do that!! Thanks jb


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:25:02 PM PST US
    From: YOURTCFG@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:43:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, CloudCraft@aol.com writes: I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all systems, that I've heard. How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? jb


    Message 21


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    Time: 07:26:34 PM PST US
    From: YOURTCFG@aol.com
    Subject: Re: flap position transmitter
    --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 7/14/2005 9:42:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes: I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for my 500B. it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If anyone knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or does anyone know where mine might be repaired. Try Jack Chappell at 951-371-7513 Good luck jb


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:32:06 PM PST US
    From: CloudCraft@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
    --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 14-Jul-05 19:25:39 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG@aol.com writes: How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? I know it must seem mad, but by shutting off the mags, you leave the Simmonds full of fuel ... and on the IGSO-540 hot starts are not a problem especially since it's single point fuel injection into the supercharger. However, when the oil is hot, oil pressure is low and a Simmonds goes full rich with low oil pressure so that's the real problem with too rich of a mixture on start and that's why 680-F series Commanders will smoke during idle and have RPM fluctuations, which tears up the gear box. Use higher viscosity oil in the summer and the IGSO-540 starts fine. Nanually leaning on the ground in hight temps and DENALTS is often required for a smooth idle. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:56:58 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
    Subject: Finished restoration
    --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net> Chris, Glad to hear that you got it up and running, it looks better than when it came from the factory. However, what you said to your wife---- you might want to read this first. > > > > A couple had been debating the purchase of a new auto for weeks. He > > > > wanted a new truck. She wanted a fast little sports-like car so > > > > she could zip through traffic around town. > > > > He would probably have settled on any beat up old truck, > > > > but everything she seemed to like was way out of their price > > > > range. > > > > "Look!" she said. "I want something that goes from 0 to 200 in > > > > 4 seconds or less. And my birthday is coming up. You could > > > > surprise me." > > > > For her birthday, he bought her a brand new bathroom scale. > > > > > > > > Services will be at Downing funeral home on Monday the 12th, due > > > > to the condition of the body, this will be a closed casket service. > > > > > > > > Please send your donations to the 'Think before you say things to > > > > your wife foundation". > > > > Jim A N444BD -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net> Bill Bow wrote: > There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again. Oh...please don't say that! I still havn't peeled the price tags off my purty new Hartzells and am still getting that "new engine" smell from the cowl after shutdown. If I trashed all that by forgetting to put the wheels down I might just go jump off a bridge! (besides, I've told my wife that if that ever happens that it's HER fault :-) cs




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