Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/21/06 (Dan Farmer)
2. 12:40 PM - Re: Message regarding autopilot ()
3. 01:27 PM - Re: Message regarding autopilot (Tylor Hall)
4. 06:44 PM - SA10439SC.pdf ()
5. 06:55 PM - Re: SA10439SC.pdf (Tylor Hall)
6. 07:38 PM - Re: SA10439SC.pdf (Robert S. Randazzo)
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Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/21/06 |
Oddly enough I am in Toykyo reading about spar problems in all commanders. Google
"Aero Commander" on the first page is a hit on "wikipedia" then a article
on adey murphey's crash click one of the links and it takes you to the sj swift
report.
dan farmer
Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list@matronics.com> wrote:
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Total Messages Posted Mon 08/21/06: 12
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Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:05 AM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (W J R HAMILTON)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (W J R HAMILTON)
3. 11:40 AM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. ()
4. 12:52 PM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (Robert S. Randazzo)
5. 01:58 PM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (N395V)
6. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (Robert S. Randazzo)
7. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (John Vormbaum)
8. 04:20 PM - Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (N395V)
9. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems. (Robert S. Randazzo)
10. 09:36 PM - Re: Commander pics and stuff (BillLeff1@aol.com)
11. 09:48 PM - Re: Commander pics and stuff (BillLeff1@aol.com)
12. 10:41 PM - Re: Message regarding autopilot (BillLeff1@aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:05:04 AM PST US
From: W J R HAMILTON
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Jim,
Some info.
If I can find an actual link, I will send it, in the meantime, try Google:
[2] Swift SJ (1995) =91The Aero Commander
Chronicle=92. Proceedings of the 18th Symposium of the
International Committee on Aeronautical Fatigue,
EMAS, Melbourne, Australia, pages 507 ' 530.
[3] Swift SJ (1999) =91Gnats and Camels ' 30 Years
of Regulating Structural Fatigue in Light Aircraft=92.
Proceedings of the 20th Symposium of the
International Committee on Aeronautical Fatigue,
Bellevue, Washington, USA, pages 685 ' 708.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:
>
>I was wondering if anyone could help me with
>current or historic information on the Aero
>commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar.
>I have N 800AC which I have been working to get
>airworthy for the last few years and was down to
>one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you
>could smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled
>the center fuel bladder out to repair or replace
>they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50% deteriorated.
>
>Are there any ADs or service advisories which
>would have covered this problem in the past?
>Where can I get replacement parts?
>
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:32:24 AM PST US
From: W J R HAMILTON
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Jim,
Try this, I was looking everywhere but the obvious place, I was
talking to Swift today, it doesn't altogether surprise me he rides a bicycle.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:
>
>I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic
>information on the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with
>the wing spar.
>I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the
>last few years and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak
>which you could smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled the center
>fuel bladder out to repair or replace they found the wing spar in my
>plane to be 50% deteriorated.
>
>Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered
>this problem in the past?
>Where can I get replacement parts?
>
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 11:40:48 AM PST US
From: ""
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Excellent infromation.
Thanks
Phil Stubbs
----- Original Message -----
From: W J R HAMILTON
Sent: 8/21/2006 8:41:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Jim,
Try this, I was looking everywhere but the obvious place, I was talking to Swift
today, it doesn't altogether surprise me he rides a bicycle.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:
I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic information on
the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar.
I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the last few years
and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you could smell in
the aft cabin. When they pulled the center fuel bladder out to repair or replace
they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50% deteriorated.
Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered this problem in
the past?
Where can I get replacement parts?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 12:52:08 PM PST US
From: "Robert S. Randazzo"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
I think i'm going to take up walking...
Rob
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
br549phil@mindspring.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:39
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Excellent infromation.
Thanks
Phil Stubbs
----- Original Message -----
From: W J R HAMILTON
Sent: 8/21/2006 8:41:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: History of 500A wing spar problems.
Jim,
Try this, I was looking everywhere but the obvious place, I was talking to
Swift today, it doesn't altogether surprise me he rides a bicycle.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:
I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic information
on the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar.
I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the last few
years and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you could
smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled the center fuel bladder out to
repair or replace they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50%
deteriorated.
Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered this
problem in the past?
Where can I get replacement parts?
Thanks,
Jim
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________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 01:58:25 PM PST US
Subject: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
From: "N395V"
--> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
I'm sooooooooo0o confused.
My impression when I first got into commanders was only 2 planes had had spar failure.
1 allegedly had pre existing spar damage in a hangar door accident that
was poorly repaired and the other was 2 tennagers high on Marijuana trying to
imitate Bob Hoover.
Were there really 24 in flight failures?????
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56152#56152
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 02:34:46 PM PST US
From: "Robert S. Randazzo"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert S. Randazzo"
Milt-
I thought there had been a few more- but that they were mostly low-level
work aircraft subject to pretty high stress loads as a routine part of their
operation. Apparently this isn't the case.
This makes me worry... N414C had that hard landing incident in 2001(?)...
Was any consideration given to the strain placed on the wing spar in that
incident? Crikey... Time for more costly inspections?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 13:57
Subject: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
--> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
I'm sooooooooo0o confused.
My impression when I first got into commanders was only 2 planes had had
spar failure. 1 allegedly had pre existing spar damage in a hangar door
accident that was poorly repaired and the other was 2 tennagers high on
Marijuana trying to imitate Bob Hoover.
Were there really 24 in flight failures?????
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56152#56152
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________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 02:36:32 PM PST US
From: "John Vormbaum"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum"
Milt,
I haven't decided how much credit to grant these reports. I've heard varying
stories, including one that the chief investigator was on a crusade against
Commander for some bizarre personal reasons. I also have heard that some of
the accidents ascribed to spar failure did involve a "spar failure"....when
the spar hit the ground at 170kts, it failed.
I also think that the airplanes down under were operated in a harsher
environment, in a more heavy-handed or less well (factory) supported fashion
(this may be erroneous on my part).
Regardless, the AD's & SB's are in place, and if the airplanes are so bad,
why have spar failures dropped to zero? When's the last time we had spar
issues in the flight group? There've been NONE in the almost 8 years I've
been participating. I've got 18,000+ hours on my airframe and my spar is
fine.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V"
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
>
> I'm sooooooooo0o confused.
>
> My impression when I first got into commanders was only 2 planes had had
> spar failure. 1 allegedly had pre existing spar damage in a hangar door
> accident that was poorly repaired and the other was 2 tennagers high on
> Marijuana trying to imitate Bob Hoover.
>
> Were there really 24 in flight failures?????
>
> --------
> Milt
> N395V
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56152#56152
>
>
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>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1717 (20060821) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 04:20:21 PM PST US
Subject: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
From: "N395V"
--> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
I believe ALL spar failures have been corrosion related. N414C has had 1 if not
2 AD mandated inspections since the landing and has passed without difficulty.
Also note from the commander aero website that those aircraft affected (based
on repetetive inspections of the fleet) are few and far between. To my knowledge
since the AD there have been no failures.
Drink beer get some nooki and don't worry. [Laughing]
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56178#56178
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 06:12:49 PM PST US
From: "Robert S. Randazzo"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert S. Randazzo"
Milt-
I'll have to settle for just the beer. First child shows up any day now- so
The Mr.s isn't much in the mood for nooki. ;-)
Just got the new cabinets for N414C back from the cabinet maker. Nice
mahogany finish (not real- but looks great). Redesigned them to suit my
needs a bit better- flight manuals/docs within easy reach, an ice drawer
capable of holding a 6 pack of coke and ice (reachable from the cockpit, of
course!) and two nice, roomy storage bins for any food stuffs the wife might
wish to bring along....
Still wending our way through the autopilot certification process... It's
holding up progress a bit- but the short term game plan is to get her flying
again by end of september.
You are correct- 2 spar AD inspections and nothing noted. Third one is due
next year. No doubt I'll be seeking advice from this group on where to take
her.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 16:20
Subject: Commander-List: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.
--> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
I believe ALL spar failures have been corrosion related. N414C has had 1 if
not 2 AD mandated inspections since the landing and has passed without
difficulty. Also note from the commander aero website that those aircraft
affected (based on repetetive inspections of the fleet) are few and far
between. To my knowledge since the AD there have been no failures.
Drink beer get some nooki and don't worry. [Laughing]
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56178#56178
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http://www.eset.com
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 09:36:59 PM PST US
From: BillLeff1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander pics and stuff
The Mr. RPM I did in 1976 had the blankets on each turbo. That would be
N400CH now.
Bill Leff
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 09:48:47 PM PST US
From: BillLeff1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander pics and stuff
You can get the information you need, via the Freedom of information Act,
from the region that certified the STC if the owner does not exists any more.
Bill Leff
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 10:41:42 PM PST US
From: BillLeff1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Message regarding autopilot
I had a Collins AP-102E. Nobody can fix it. There is one test set in the
world! and it is in Asia!!
I am currently installing a Century III witch is approved for the 560F
Bill Leff
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Message regarding autopilot |
Hi Bill,
Just found out the Chelton AP-3c is STCd for the 560F. I'm exploring that but
was wondering if you got your CIII from salvage 560F or what?
Phil Stubbs
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 8/22/2006 1:46:53 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Message regarding autopilot
I had a Collins AP-102E. Nobody can fix it. There is one test set in the world!
and it is in Asia!!
I am currently installing a Century III witch is approved for the 560F
Bill Leff
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Subject: | Re: Message regarding autopilot |
Phil,
I just looked on the Chelton web site and no Aero Commanders were
listed.
What models have they added?
Any thing on a 680E?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 22, 2006, at 1:39 PM, "" <br549phil@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> Just found out the Chelton AP-3c is STCd for the 560F. I'm
> exploring that but was wondering if you got your CIII from salvage
> 560F or what?
>
>
> Phil Stubbs
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: 8/22/2006 1:46:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Message regarding autopilot
>
> I had a Collins AP-102E. Nobody can fix it. There is one test set
> in the world! and it is in Asia!!
>
> I am currently installing a Century III witch is approved for the 560F
>
> Bill Leff
> <>
>
>
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http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/0/2ff5206c961ea963862570990050e72a/$FILE/SA10439SC.pdf
Tylor,
Here is the link to the STC. Don't know how I missed it in the earlier searches.
Unfortunately, Chelton is in the process of moving their ops from TX to OK and
are not shipping for about 90 days. After four years whats another few days.
SA10439SC covers 560F, 680, 680E, 680F, 720
Phil Stubbs
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Subject: | Re: SA10439SC.pdf |
Phil,
That is interesting. It includes round and flat nacelle commanders,
but does not included the 500A,B, U, S or the 560, 520??? But it
should not be hard to add the other since they have some of both. No
long body commanders?
I hear it is a good unit. and the cost is reasonable.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 22, 2006, at 7:44 PM, "" <br549phil@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/
> 0/2ff5206c961ea963862570990050e72a/$FILE/SA10439SC.pdf
>
> Tylor,
> Here is the link to the STC. Don't know how I missed it in the
> earlier searches.
> Unfortunately, Chelton is in the process of moving their ops from
> TX to OK and are not shipping for about 90 days. After four years
> whats another few days.
> SA10439SC covers 560F, 680, 680E, 680F, 720
> Phil Stubbs
>
>
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Tylor-
I've been working with Chelton Aviation Corp (now Wulfsberg) since December
of last year when a CAC rep suggested they would be interested to use our
airplane as the testbed for their STC on the 685 and long body commanders.
Unfortunately, he and one other CAC employee were killed in an accident in
April so CAC was rolled up under a sister company, Wulfsberg- and the story
has been less than positive since that time.
We are working very hard to get the STC completed- but I cannot honestly
tell you that Wulfsberg is being very helpful and instead they have foisted
us off on a DER that can't get enough information from them to move the
process along.
Currently we are sitting with an un-certified AP-3C in our commander that
cannot be returned to flight because we the promises that have been made to
us are not being followed through with.
I'm trying everything I can to prevent this from going to litigation-
but..... it's looking more and more likely.
Rob
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 18:52
Subject: Re: Commander-List: SA10439SC.pdf
Phil,
That is interesting. It includes round and flat nacelle commanders, but does
not included the 500A,B, U, S or the 560, 520??? But it should not be hard
to add the other since they have some of both. No long body commanders?
I hear it is a good unit. and the cost is reasonable.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 22, 2006, at 7:44 PM, "" <br549phil@mindspring.com> wrote:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/0/2ff520
6c961ea963862570990050e72a/$FILE/SA10439SC.pdf
Tylor,
Here is the link to the STC. Don't know how I missed it in the earlier
searches.
Unfortunately, Chelton is in the process of moving their ops from TX to OK
and are not shipping for about 90 days. After four years whats another few
days.
SA10439SC covers 560F, 680, 680E, 680F, 720
Phil Stubbs
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ntribution
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