Commander-List Digest Archive

Mon 10/27/08


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:19 AM - Re: ebay 224HA (Peter Bichier)
     2. 03:55 AM - Re: ebay 224HA (Russell Legg)
     3. 07:35 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (Tom Fisher)
     4. 08:00 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (willis robison)
     5. 08:00 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (willis robison)
     6. 08:05 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (willis robison)
     7. 10:59 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (Tom Fisher)
     8. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: ebay 224HA (Don)
     9. 11:56 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (willis robison)
    10. 12:38 PM - BrightLine Bags Pilot Flight Bag (BrightLine)
    11. 12:50 PM - Re: ebay 224HA (Peter Bichier)
    12. 02:19 PM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (Tom Fisher)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:19:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ebay 224HA
    From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
    Sorry Don, I mixed up... Where is this airplane anyways? I can't find it on ebay... is it already gone? I did say, quote: "I think"... the reason being that an "ACA125" user posted a video commenting that it was "your" 560E and signed as "N224HA 560E"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDdTBQlgIg anyway, I confused you mixing both 560Es... sorry again! the funny thing though, is that in Matronics Archives from last year, a certain "skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net" signed as "Brent - N224HA" http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-get.cgi?Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci and on other photos of N224HA posted on the web Brent was talking about his "lost love"... so does that mean he bought it back? or that was actually the seller's email? very interesting... [quote="dongirod"]Now you've done it Peter. NO it's not mine! Mine is N2707B S# 555 Don -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210464#210464


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:55:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ebay 224HA
    From: Russell Legg <rlegg@austarnet.com.au>
    Hi Chris, This one is a bit like Milt's old Straight 560...gets hidden away for a while and then suddenly 'pops up' again when you are least expecting it. Reminds us all to be eternally wary! Cheers Russell On 27/10/08 3:30 AM, "Chris" <cschuerm@cox.net> wrote: > > > Who's selling 560E N224HA on ebay? That airplane looks familiar, but I > don't remember where I've seen it.... > Wonder if there is something significantly wrong with it. > > chris > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:35:13 AM PST US
    From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff. > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:00:41 AM PST US
    From: willis robison <drwer2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    Tom, did --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff. > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:00:41 AM PST US
    From: willis robison <drwer2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    Tom, --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff. > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:05:12 AM PST US
    From: willis robison <drwer2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter?- Di d you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fue l servo? - wer --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff . > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > > =0A=0A=0A


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:59:06 AM PST US
    From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders. Tom. C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: willis robison To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel servo? wer --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation To: commander-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff. > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:29:38 AM PST US
    From: "Don" <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: ebay 224HA
    Peter; The youtube you sent is not my airplane, it looks like it has slimline nacelles, not bathtub ones, however the next youtube of a take off, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSe8CKyki7U&feature=related is mine before I got it painted. Back when Chris had the site, I also had one of a low pass at the same airport. No more than I fly mine I probably should sell it but its my Linus's blanket, I can go get a "God's eye" view and "restoreth my soul" and I feel better, so plan on just keeping it. I fly it up to Van Wert, OH. just about every year for a family reunion and take lots of rides. This year took an Amish family (an acquaintance of my brother) for their first and maybe only flight. Maybe someday we can get together. God Bless, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: ebay 224HA > <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu> > > Sorry Don, I mixed up... > > Where is this airplane anyways? I can't find it on ebay... is it already > gone? > > I did say, quote: "I think"... the reason being that an "ACA125" user > posted a video commenting that it was "your" 560E and signed as "N224HA > 560E"... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDdTBQlgIg > > anyway, I confused you mixing both 560Es... sorry again! the funny thing > though, is that in Matronics Archives from last year, a certain > "skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net" signed as "Brent - N224HA" > > http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-get.cgi?Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci > > and on other photos of N224HA posted on the web Brent was talking about > his "lost love"... > > so does that mean he bought it back? or that was actually the seller's > email? > > very interesting... > > [quote="dongirod"]Now you've done it Peter. > > NO it's not mine! > > Mine is N2707B S# 555 > > Don > > -------- > 560 Dreamer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210464#210464 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:33 AM


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:56:56 AM PST US
    From: willis robison <drwer2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    Thanks Tom. - Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a flowdivid er/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air cooled en gine)-And-are-more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume.- - Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on som e of them,-it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out.- If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the to p of the engine and then down.- Either way, cooling appears greatly reduc ed during climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream. - As-Ive seen it. 1.- larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio-during operation , and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV.- they are bet ter, however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed .- Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of t he pump on shutdown.- this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to zero... - 2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptibl e to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster.- At higher flowrates (ri ch) the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rat o- and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle.- This is more of an is sue on climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like clos ed cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)).- Modern fuellines in t hese situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck). - 3.- for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different leng ths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important.- there a re different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more important.-)- If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami i njectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles. - Just some thoughts. - wer former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD - - --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same insid e diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I j ust replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders. Tom. C-GISS - ----- Original Message ----- From: willis robison Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter?- Di d you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fue l servo? - wer --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff . > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com /contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:38:40 PM PST US
    Subject: BrightLine Bags Pilot Flight Bag
    From: "BrightLine" <info@brightlinebags.com>
    Hi Everyone, I just wanted to write and thank everybody who bought a Flight Bag from us a couple of months back. I hope that the bag is working out better than you had hoped. As an FYI, the bags are now black and have a few changes to them. As always, if you have any comments about the bag, I would love to hear them. Thanks especially to John V and Keith G for the support. I have included a link to our online demo and a photo if you are interested. http://brightlinebags.ipower.com/videopage.html. Thanks again for your support!! Bryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210563#210563 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/brightline_pilot_flight_bag_686.jpg


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:50:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: ebay 224HA
    From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
    Don, We really are all glad you enjoy your bird and that you are planning to keep it; I have indeed seen that take off and the low pass on youtube; what I specially like is the sound track! too often music is added and really empties a lot of the experience... I would love to see and fly in your 560E, I have not flown in an Aero Commander since 1982... even though I fly on light twins for work 3-4 times a year in the tropics. If you want to see a 'young' man in heaven and truly happy, please let me know when you come to Van Wert; a 2 hour drive will be a breeze for such a joy! I sure hope I'll be around! I travel a lot... what time of the year do you visit your folks? Don, just knowing there is a possibility that I fly in an Aero Commander one of these days has lifted up my spirit! I would certainly enjoy meeting you too, Best regards, Peter dongirod wrote: > Peter; > > The youtube you sent is not my airplane, it looks like it has slimline > nacelles, not bathtub ones, however the next youtube of a take off, > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSe8CKyki7U&feature=related is mine before I > got it painted. Back when Chris had the site, I also had one of a low pass > at the same airport. > > No more than I fly mine I probably should sell it but its my Linus's > blanket, I can go get a "God's eye" view and "restoreth my soul" and I feel > better, so plan on just keeping it. I fly it up to Van Wert, OH. just about > every year for a family reunion and take lots of rides. This year took an > Amish family (an acquaintance of my brother) for their first and maybe only > flight. Maybe someday we can get together. > > God Bless, Don > > > > > --- -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210569#210569


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:19:07 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
    Subject: Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
    Well, I am that much more informed, thanks for the info. Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: willis robison To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation Thanks Tom. Ive designed a few fuel systems and his symptoms are typical of a flowdivider/lines on the hot side of an engine. (side downstream of an air cooled engine) And are more prevalent with Lines that have a lot of volume. Im unfamiliar with Commanders, but from the looks of the cowl inlets on some of them, it appears the cooling airflow is from bottom to top and then out. If not then there is a big air-dam that deflects cool air to the top of the engine and then down. Either way, cooling appears greatly reduced during climbout unless there are some big cown-vents downstream. As Ive seen it. 1. larger dia. lines have a higher vapor/liquid ratio during operation, and on shut down, cook-off the remaining fuel in the FDV. they are better, however on climbout as there is less pressure losses and heat absorbed. Modern FDV's have a purge valve that dumps fuel back to the inlet of the pump on shutdown. this immediately drops the pressure at the nozzles to zero... 2. smaller lines have shorter fill times, quicker starts but are susceptible to vapor lock because they absorb heat faster. At higher flowrates (rich) the delta-P loss in these lines may result in a higher vapor/liquid rato and thus a poorer spray patter at the nozzle. This is more of an issue on climbout on engines with poor cooling for whatever reason (like closed cowlvents, or just reduced airspeed (airflow)). Modern fuellines in these situations are insulated (just like grandpas truck). 3. for systems with high flowrates (~100 pph or more) the different lengths of fuel lines from the FDV to each nozzle becomes important. there are different pressure losses in each leg. (which makes GAMI's all the more important. ) If you want to save yourself the recurring cost of Gami injectors...get your flow divider valve balanced with your set of nozzles. Just some thoughts. wer former Pratt-Whitney and Ham-STD --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation To: commander-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 10:57 AM I got a new set from Mr.RPM himself so I assume they were of the same inside diameter and yes his lines leaked and had to be welded in two places. I just replaced the lines from the flow divider to the cylinders. Tom. C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: willis robison To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation Tom, did you replace the lines with ones of the same Inside diameter? Did you replace those on both sides of the flow divider (spider), and the fuel servo? wer --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> wrote: From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation To: commander-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:34 AM <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca> I had the same surging problem on mine. I replaced all the upper deck lines with new stainless steel lines, the new lines also had to be welded in two places, this resolved the surging problem. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Mansfeld" <hcourier@cox.net> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation <hcourier@cox.net> > > Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM > Conversion). Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is > unsteady, somewhat like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info: > > 1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the > turbos up (I've got manual turbos) > 2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM > fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the > aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable. > 3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not > always > 4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a > flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want > to > stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff. > 5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check > and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't > 6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost > un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in > level > flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I > paid close > attention. > 7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no > affect on the engine > > My thoughts: > > 1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the > carburetor that is unsteady > 2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure > lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine > 3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time) > I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on > climb) > and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated. > > I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this > type problem occur and if so what might be the problem? > > Thank you, > > Ray Mansfield > N91ES > 850-217-5185 > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D




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