Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:31 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Frans Veldman)
2. 04:12 AM - Re: Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU (Jim Brown)
3. 04:20 AM - Re: Left the Nest Today (h&jeuropa)
4. 05:43 AM - Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU (Troy Maynor)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Bud Yerly)
6. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS)
7. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Paul McAllister)
8. 10:33 AM - 3 comments (David Corbett)
9. 11:56 AM - Mod 67 and Factory (William McClellan)
10. 01:11 PM - Re: Mod 67 and Factory (Richard Wheelwright)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS)
12. 02:20 PM - What temperature is pheonelic firewall good for? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
13. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Greg Fuchs)
14. 04:43 PM - Re: Parts orders and where is the factory? Upgrading! (Bud Yerly)
15. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
On 04/08/2010 05:21 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
> battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter. I checked the
> battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp fuzes and they are
> good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed it but to no avail.
> Today I check the output of both alternator wires as they we're
> connected at the GG connections to the regulator and they we're reading
> - 6.5. when connected.
The wires from the alternator carry alternating current, so your voltage
meter has to be set to AC.
What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably
with all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the
capacitor.
Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
Frans
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU |
Troy=0A=0AYou can change the "N " number..You have to give up current # and
then choose the next number you want....It will take a little time but it
can be done......=0A=0AJim Brown=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Troy Maynor <wingnut54@charter.net>=0ATo: europa-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Wed, April 7, 2010 6:49:42 PM=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Lef
r" <wingnut54@charter.net>=0A=0AI totally agree with you; the part about th
e EU...I wished a thousand times I had picked another reg. no.- Not neces
sarily because of the EU, but because it has nine sylables and is tongue tw
ister when talking to ATC. =0AThanks.=0ATroy=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293423#2934
=========================0A
======================0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Left the Nest Today |
Hi Troy,
Congratulations!! Happy to see you in the air.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293474#293474
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU |
And how do you go about that? Couldn't find anything on the FAA Registration area.
Troy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293477#293477
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
Jeff,
Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this.
Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC.
First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At 3000
RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged battery, and
voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is the stator or
regulator.
Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It is
supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only.
Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be
battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check that
the switch provides battery voltage.
Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual 13.4.7).
The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from Rotax.
I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now.
Stator:
Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy
maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this.
If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I
have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again and
replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not have a
defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax.
Enjoy your troubleshooting,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF ROBERTS<mailto:Jeff@rmmm.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:21 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed
<Jeff@rmmm.net<mailto:Jeff@rmmm.net>>
Hi All,
My electronic problem is continuing to elude me. Thats not saying much
since I have never wired anything except a room or two on some houses
over the years. With that said I have been having trouble keeping my
battery charged over the past 4 or 5 months. Gold Rush has 220
delightful hours on her, but lately she's just not charging the
battery, or maybe I have a drain somewhere that wasn't there before. I
have replaced the regulator, and the big blue capacitor. After
charging the battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter.
I checked the battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp
fuzes and they are good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed
it but to no avail. Today I check the output of both alternator wires
as they we're connected at the GG connections to the regulator and
they we're reading - 6.5. when connected. When disconnected from the
regulator they didn't have a reading at all. Is that normal?
I also checked the +B output to see if it was sending a charge and it
read only .53 volts.
If any of you have advise to this non understanding electronics guy
that would like to be flying charged to safely get to sun-n-fun let me
know.
Thanks In Advance!!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
Thanks Bud, Frans & all
As soon as my work day ends I'm on this. I'll keep ya posted.
Thanks!!!!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
On Apr 8, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
> Jeff,
> Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this.
> Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC.
> First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At
> 3000 RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged
> battery, and voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is
> the stator or regulator.
> Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It
> is supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only.
> Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be
> battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check
> that the switch provides battery voltage.
> Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual
> 13.4.7).
> The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from
> Rotax. I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now.
>
> Stator:
> Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy
> maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this.
> If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I
> have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again
> and replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not
> have a defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax.
>
> Enjoy your troubleshooting,
>
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JEFF ROBERTS
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:21 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> My electronic problem is continuing to elude me. Thats not saying much
> since I have never wired anything except a room or two on some houses
> over the years. With that said I have been having trouble keeping my
> battery charged over the past 4 or 5 months. Gold Rush has 220
> delightful hours on her, but lately she's just not charging the
> battery, or maybe I have a drain somewhere that wasn't there before. I
> have replaced the regulator, and the big blue capacitor. After
> charging the battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter.
> I checked the battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp
> fuzes and they are good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed
> it but to no avail. Today I check the output of both alternator wires
> as they we're connected at the GG connections to the regulator and
> they we're reading - 6.5. when connected. When disconnected from the
> regulator they didn't have a reading at all. Is that normal?
> I also checked the +B output to see if it was sending a charge and it
> read only .53 volts.
> If any of you have advise to this non understanding electronics guy
> that would like to be flying charged to safely get to sun-n-fun let me
> know.
>
> Thanks In Advance!!
>
> Jeff R. N128LJ Gold p; Features Chat, http://
> www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; title=http://
> www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
Jeff,
With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in series with
the battery. It should read zero, if it doesn't then you need to start
looking for something discharging it.
Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal fault and
is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to check this, none
of them simple so let me think on it a bit more.
Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus and had
load test. The battery will need to be fully charged first.
Paul
Message 8
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1 Well done, David Joyce, for persevering so long with the
Greek CAA - and for your success.
2 I have my battery mounted aft of the luggage bay. I
glassed in a 1" braided strip as the negative - this runs inside the
fuselage joint on the starboard side. The positive runs though the
wheelwell, and is strapped to the starboard side, passing just under the
brake unit and thence straight forward. This has been successful. My
battery, a Hawker ( but I cannot remember the size as I write) was new
in 2000, and started flying early in 2001 - and still appears to be as
good as new. But what will happen now that I have written that?!
3 Paddy - I hope to see you at Halfpenny Green 12 ish
tomorrow - first DOTH of the season for me.
David
G-BZAM - about 580 hours
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mod 67 and Factory |
I am wanting to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been able to get
any response back from the factory. Anyone know what is going on with the factory
not responding? Really the only parts I need are the moldings, F35P, F35S,
F36P and F36S, and I could complete the mod. I have already done the alteration
to the door shoot bolt push arm.
Thanks,
Bill McClellan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 67 and Factory |
William, Are you in the UK? I have the door molding If you want-them for
=A320 each.=0A-=0A==================
===0A=0AThank You=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A=0A========
=============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0ATo: "Europa-Li
st@matronics.com" <Europa-List@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, 8 April, 2010 19
:28:43=0ASubject: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess
age posted by: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0A=0AI am wanting
to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been able to get any resp
onse back from the factory.- Anyone know what is going on with the factor
y not responding?- Really the only parts I need are the moldings, F35P, F
35S, F36P and F36S, and I could complete the mod.- I have already done th
e alteration to the door shoot bolt push arm.- =0AThanks,=0ABill McClella
===============0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
On Apr 8, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Paul McAllister wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in
> series with the battery. It should read zero, if it doesn't then
> you need to start looking for something discharging it.
I put that on my to do test tonight. Thanks
>
> Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal
> fault and is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to
> check this, none of them simple so let me think on it a bit more.
>
> Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus
> and had load test. The battery will need to be fully charged first.
No but thats a good idea after I try the other test. Just to busy
today to work on it. Maybe tonight.
Thanks Paul!
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | What temperature is pheonelic firewall good for? |
Curiosity question, what is the max. temperaturepheonelic firewall
isgood for?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
>...
>What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
>You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably with
all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the capacitor.
>Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
>Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
>Frans
Jeff,
These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF this is a
shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the alternator
phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its internal
setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the regulator).
If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a battery, the
regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the alternator. At
high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without cooling, it
can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes,
DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try not to run
the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the
regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the
battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14 Volts I
consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the battery
(for lead acid technology).
Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged, assuming it
is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does not have
any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day or so of
the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly drop to
its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully charged.
11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not the
best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead-acid, but it
gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an
aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery or
battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for example,
shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming a fully
charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a
cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you measure it
...charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you (I mean
me) crazy. Good Luck!
Regards,
Greg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Parts orders and where is the factory? Upgrading! |
Bill and everyone.
With the on line ordering system and new web interface, it appears there
is a problem and none of our emails are getting to Fiona in customer
service. Mike McLean and I discussed it this morning and are working
the quick catch up drill to get your orders handled as soon as possible.
Yes we are phoning as in the 20th century. Unfortunately, Mike and I
are off to Sun 'n Fun and Fiona is dealing with the mess of back log
messages and orders.
It appears our simple upgrade to bring our 21st Century on line order,
accounting, parts supply, tracking and secure payment software is having
a glitch. (Kind of obvious-No?)
The IT folks (yes we have an IT department) are scrambling to get it
moving.
We are all embarrassed it was not caught sooner.
Ah Progress,
Bud Yerly
US Europa Dealer
----- Original Message -----
From: William McClellan<mailto:wilwood@earthlink.net>
To: Europa-List@matronics.com<mailto:Europa-List@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory
<wilwood@earthlink.net<mailto:wilwood@earthlink.net>>
I am wanting to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been
able to get any response back from the factory. Anyone know what is
going on with the factory not responding? Really the only parts I need
are the moldings, F35P, F35S, F36P and F36S, and I could complete the
mod. I have already done the alteration to the door shoot bolt push
arm.
Thanks,
Bill McClellan
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
Guys,
Just to keep you up to speed as to where were I'm at.
Tonight before it got too dark I managed to check the following with
the engine at 2200 rpm's. At first after charging Battery, the voltage
check direct on the terminals was 12.5. The GG alternator inputs on
the regulator we're 15.7 AC so I'm assuming the engine is producing
correct voltage. I checked the +B out of the regulator and it read
only .55 volts DC. Moved the engine up to 3000 RPM's and the +G only
went to .55 volts. One of you said that should be 13.5 which is what I
thought to charge the battery. Keep in mind my regulator is brand new.
Just put it on because I thought the old one caused the problem.
Turned all lights on and everything on the direct reading on the
battery went to 11.8 volts DC. After about 7 to 10 min. that went to
11.5
I can only feel at this point the new regulator is bad and that the
main loose ground I had found last week may have caused me to believe
the old one was bad. What are my chances of buying a new regulator
thats bad? Is there any other reason anyone can think of that may
cause the +B regulator output to be only putting out a half of volt?
Your inputs are very welcome!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush. Should have taking that shop course on
electronics 40 years back.
On Apr 8, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
> >
>
>
>> ...
>> What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
>> You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
> CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably
> with
> all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the
> capacitor.
>> Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
>> Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
>
>> Frans
>
> Jeff,
>
> These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF
> this is a
> shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the
> alternator
> phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its
> internal
> setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the
> regulator).
> If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a
> battery, the
> regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the
> alternator. At
> high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without
> cooling, it
> can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes,
> DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try
> not to run
> the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the
> regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the
> battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14
> Volts I
> consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the
> battery
> (for lead acid technology).
>
> Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged,
> assuming it
> is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does
> not have
> any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day
> or so of
> the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly
> drop to
> its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully
> charged.
> 11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not
> the
> best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead-
> acid, but it
> gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an
> aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery
> or
> battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for
> example,
> shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming
> a fully
> charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a
> cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you
> measure it
> ...charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you
> (I mean
> me) crazy. Good Luck!
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
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