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1. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: Mod 73 (Trevor Pond)
2. 01:26 AM - Re: Re: Mod 73 (DAVID JOYCE)
3. 02:17 AM - Re: Mod 73 (Alan Carter)
Message 1
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Perfect answer Nev.
Best regards
Trev
Sent from my iPhone
On 12 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> It's a pity you were not available when we were working on the design and m
anufacturing process all those years ago, we could have done with an expert t
o help. Sorting out all of the thousands of items with your help would have b
een welcome.
> Everything could have been made bullet proof, trouble is the Europa would h
ave weighed perhaps 1200 + pounds, with little payload ?
> A number of options are available to you.
> 1]. Submit your new [improved] design to L.A.A. you might get it through i
n a year or two ?
> 2]. Call Karen at Europa, have your Credit Card ready, and order one of th
e new [ improved] torque tube assemblies. With hindsight, and less pressure 1
8 years on, Europa have done a re design on this. Back then, we didn't take i
nto account that builders would take it apart / reasemble / take apart / rea
semble it the wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes .
......... or they would smack the mass balance weights onto the stop..... If
you take this option, you might have to ream out the bores of the TP5 /TP6 s
leeves in your tailplanes to allow the torque tube to slide on easily, as t
hey were matched to each individual torque tube. Easy but time consuming, wi
th a broom handle and emery cloth.
> Almost certainly you will need to sweat out the TP13 bushes [ the four 1/4
'' bore drive bushes in the inboard rib] and re pot them to match the drive p
ins, simple job with a heat gun and 1/4'' bolt, and some epoxy. This heavy d
uty item is, funnily enough, heavier.
> 3]. Remove the entire torque tube assembly, mark everything as to their or
ientation [ horn , drive plates and nylon spacers relative to the torque tub
e] and establish the scale of the wear [in the holes, not the pins]. If the p
ins are the original 1/4'', and the holes are not too worn [ they might be n
ow if you have been swinging on the tail to check wear] the next size up was
5/16''. Not sure if these are available from Europa, as they go directly to
10mm now, bigger is better, but doesn't give you another shot at it if you m
ess up on reassembly. The new holes in the tube / fiting need to be an inte
rference fit, as in if you can push the pin in by hand, the jobs buggered be
fore you fit them. I have just done this job last week to a monowheel with 8
00+ hours on it. very slight play but as it was in my workshop it made sense
to sort it for another 800 hours life.
> Get a machine shop to ream the holes out to 0.007'' smaller than the pins A
CTUALLY MEASURE, and make sure you don't lose the relative positions of the
fittings when this is being done. If there is significant play between the d
rive plates, ensure they are clocked to be in allignment with each other dur
ing the drilling process. DON'T trial fit the pins ! It is a once ony job ! O
n reinstallation, to drive the pins in you will need a 4lb copper hammer.Wit
h the nip of the tube on the pin, it will need a firm wallop to drive the pi
ns in, should be a '' doink, doink, doink, donk '' Mark with a felt pen on t
he head of the pins the axis of the split pin hole so you can have them vert
ical when you insert them, it helps to taper the lead end of the pin back to
the split pin hole to assist insertion, and lube the pin with thin oil.
> Depending on whether the original builder put the inspection / view panels
in the place described in the Build Manual, or chose to delete / move them,
this is either a 3 hour each way job + the machining work, or a couple of d
ays marathon swearing session.
> This work will need inspecting, and entering in the aircrafts Log Book.
> Regards,
> Nev.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
> To: europa-list <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:54
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
>
>
>
> Hi Brian.
> To me it feels like play, i will check again, and slide the Stablators off
and
> check inserts making sure they are bonded.
> I am just a pilot but i could have done a better job in designing this lin
kage.
> As this has the possibility of grounding the aircraft for some considerabl
e
> time, due to the fact that clamps are individually made to size, Why ha
s,t
> something not been done about it.??
> Why can,t you get a complete unit with clamps already made, so the job cou
ld be
> done in one go, say a day, not grounded for 2 months.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385078#385078
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 2
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Ditto Nev=0A-=0A"Very well put and said"=0A=0ASent to you from David Joyc
e (The other one)=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tre
vor Pond <trevpond@aol.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@
matronics.com> =0ASent: Saturday, 13 October 2012, 9:13=0ASubject: Re: Euro
pa-List: Re: Mod 73=0A =0A=0APerfect answer Nev.=0A=0ABest regards=0A=0ATr
ev=0A=0ASent from my iPhone-=0A=0AOn 12 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Neville Eyre
<neveyre@aol.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0AHi Alan, =0A>It's a pity you were not avai
lable when we were working on the design and manufacturing process all thos
e years ago, we could have done with an expert to help. Sorting out all of
the thousands of items with your help would have been welcome. =0A>Everythi
ng could have been made bullet proof, trouble is the Europa would have weig
hed perhaps- 1200 + pounds, with little payload ? =0A>A number of options
are available to you. =0A>1]. Submit your new [improved] design to L.A.A.
you might get it through in a year or two ? =0A>2]. Call Karen at Europa, h
ave your Credit Card ready, and order one of the new [ improved] torque tub
e assemblies. With hindsight, and less pressure 18 years on, Europa have do
ne a re design on this.-Back then,-we didn't take into account that bui
lders would take it apart / reasemble / take apart / reasemble it the wrong
way round / take apart /-reassemble and wear the holes .......... or the
y would smack the mass balance weights onto the stop..... If you take this
option, you might have to ream out the bores of the TP5 /TP6 sleeves- in
your tailplanes to allow the torque tube to slide on easily, as they were m
atched to each individual torque tube. Easy but time consuming, with a broo
m handle and emery cloth. =0A>Almost certainly you will need to sweat out t
he TP13 bushes [ the four 1/4'' bore drive bushes in the inboard rib] and r
e pot them to match the drive pins, simple job with a heat gun and 1/4'' bo
lt, and some epoxy. This heavy duty item is, funnily enough, heavier. =0A>3
]. Remove the entire torque tube assembly, mark everything as to their orie
ntation [ horn , drive plates and nylon spacers relative to the torque tube
] and establish the scale of the wear [in the holes, not the pins]. If the
pins are the original 1/4'', and the holes are not too worn [ they might be
now if you have been swinging on the tail to check wear] the next size up
was 5/16''. Not sure if these are available from Europa, as they go directl
y to 10mm now, bigger is better, but doesn't give you another shot at it-
if you mess up on reassembly. The new-holes in the- tube / fiting need
to be an interference fit, as in if you can push the pin in by hand, the jo
bs buggered before you fit them. I have just done this job last week to a m
onowheel with 800+ hours on it. very slight play but as it was in my worksh
op it made sense to sort it for another 800 hours life. =0A>Get a machine s
hop to ream the holes out to 0.007'' smaller than the pins ACTUALLY -MEAS
URE,-and make sure you don't lose the relative positions of the fittings
-when this is being done. If there is significant play between the drive
plates, ensure they are clocked to be in allignment with each other during
the drilling process. DON'T trial fit the pins ! It is a once ony job !-O
n reinstallation, to drive the pins in you will need a 4lb copper hammer.Wi
th the nip of the tube on the pin, it-will need a firm wallop to drive th
e pins in, should be a '' doink, doink, doink, donk-'' Mark with a felt p
en on the head of the pins the axis of the split pin hole so you can have t
hem vertical when you insert them, it helps to taper the lead end of the pi
n back to the split pin hole to assist insertion, and lube the pin with thi
n oil.- =0A>Depending on whether the original builder put the inspection
/ view panels in the place described in the Build Manual, or chose to delet
e / move them,-this is either a 3 hour each way job + the machining work,
-or a couple of days marathon swearing session. =0A>This work will need i
nspecting, and entering in the aircrafts Log Book.- =0A>Regards, =0A>Nev.
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>------Original Message-----=0A>From: Alan Carter <alanca
rteresq@onetel.net>=0A>To: europa-list <europa-list@matronics.com>=0A>Sent:
Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:54=0A>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73=0A>=0A> =0A>-->
Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> Hi
Brian.=0ATo me it feels like play, i will check again, and slide the Stabl
ators off and =0Acheck inserts making sure they are bonded.=0AI am just a p
ilot but i could have done a better job in designing this linkage.=0AAs thi
s has the possibility of grounding the aircraft for some considerable =0Ati
me, due to the fact that clamps are individually made to size, Why has,t
=0Asomething not been done about it.??=0AWhy can,t you get a complete unit
with clamps already made, so the job could be =0Adone in one go, say a day
, not grounded for 2 months. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forum
s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385078#385078 arget=_blank>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com=0Ablank>http://
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 3
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Hi Chaps.
Before a load more , Well Puts , are posted.
I don,t want to offend anyone, I just post what i think might help others,
and get some help back on problems i need help on.
I check my tailplane using 3 people by placing a trestle under the fuselage to
make firm, the another pilot holding one Stab the the other a Retired 747 flight
engineer who has just completed 15 years work in building he plane, on the
other Stab,and me with a pencil with a piece of wood to the floor marking the
movement, to get a really accurate measurement.
I had i high degree of professionalism at my disposal,So i don,t think Swinging
came into it, I am use to 50 million hour failure rates.
So i am going to close on this one, but hope i may put something useful forward
on other topics.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385234#385234
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