KIS-List Digest Archive

Thu 07/24/14


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:47 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
     2. 06:15 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Mark Kettering)
     3. 06:21 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
     4. 06:22 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
     5. 06:43 AM - N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Owen Baker)
     6. 06:53 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Robert Reed)
     7. 07:13 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Tim Yoder)
     8. 07:20 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Robert Reed)
     9. 07:57 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Mark Kettering)
    10. 11:41 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Scott Stearns)
    11. 01:16 PM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:47:05 AM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks. The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads. I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Hello Galin, > > I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and > inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensi ve. > > I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the > nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built > the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nos e > gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Current ly > the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time > should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% > at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actuall y > if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should > almost or even stay there. > > Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and > prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once > you have done it. And so will your nose gear. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I > have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and hav e > an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is i n > my hangar already so there is no need to move it. > > I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what > happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid > it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more > pronounced. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: > > > > > Galin, > > > I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) > > just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an d > > even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc h > > for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not > accepting > > that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan e > > back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a > new > > nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been > flying > > great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna l > > damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 > months > > to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i > would > > be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi > nose > > gear failure. > > The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the > > wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou r > > yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i n > > the air > > Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). > > New Prop and spinner (8K) > > New Nose gear (1K) > > Bit of paint ( 1K ) > > Repairs to the cowling (1K) > > Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max > > > Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the > plane > > if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther e > > are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. > > > Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want > up > > update/ correct my estimates above . > > > Keith > > > From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>, > > Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans > will > > sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... > > > http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80 0/rv-10.jpg > > > Scott > > > On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it > was > > electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha t > > Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi on and > using > > Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im pact. > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O ne > > rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m ost costly > > repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n ew and > > improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a ir soon > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor e > > than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT > plug-n-play > > instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. > > > ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to > part-out > > but I know how insurance companies are. > > > Al Rosa > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez < > galinhdz@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed > > just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we re > > super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a > mechanical > > engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar y > > check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. > When > > I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then > > failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the > left. > > Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho ld > > the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. > > > The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul d > > have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I > > taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s o > > now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i n > > aviation". > > > Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair > than > > the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they > are > > going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t o > > part the airplane out. > > > Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. > > > :( > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > IS-List Email Forum - > > > u> > > > > > > > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============= > > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > > u> > > > rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ============= > > > - List Contribution Web Site - > > > /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > original message. > > > ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ============== - MATRONICS WEB F ORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> > > http://forums.matronics.com ============ == - List Contribution > Web > > Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution " > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > original message. > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > //forums.matronics.com > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addresse e > or addressees only. > > The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in > whole or in part) of its > > content is not permitted. > > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delet e > it from your system. > > Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the > sender. > > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > ========== > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ========== > > MS - > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > e - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:15:05 AM PST US
    From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I made two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust as needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This took me about 3 hours total. Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing there are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forward angle. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks. The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads. I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: Hello Galin, I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive. I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there. Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. And so will your nose gear. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it. I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: Galin, I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , and even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take much for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accepting that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been flying great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no internal damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 months to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i would be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi nose gear failure. The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pour yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back in the air Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). New Prop and spinner (8K) New Nose gear (1K) Bit of paint ( 1K ) Repairs to the cowling (1K) Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the plane if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself there are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up update/ correct my estimates above . Keith From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg Scott On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamars worst case math to determine the loads on impact. From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the air soon From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote: So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are. Al Rosa On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out. Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. :( et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ============= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= - List Contribution Web Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ============== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com ============== - List Contribution Web Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. D============================================ ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List D============================================ //forums.matronics.com D============================================ ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D============================================ This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:21:03 AM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    I think this was already done on my airplane but I will check when we start working on it. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear > where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX > wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I ma de > two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these > on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the > gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust a s > needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear > again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of > the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This > took me about 3 hours total. > > Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more > stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing the re > are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the > horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal > load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forwa rd > angle. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the > actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a > new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work > done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole > lot stronger than it looks. > > The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire > assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube > held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different > stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little > bigger to better withstand the landing loads. > > I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further > forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is > to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH > aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well an d > I fly real IMC. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > > Hello Galin, > > > I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and > inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensi ve. > > > I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the > nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built > the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nos e > gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Current ly > the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time > should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% > at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actuall y > if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should > almost or even stay there. > > > Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and > prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once > you have done it. And so will your nose gear. > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I > have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and hav e > an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is i n > my hangar already so there is no need to move it. > > > I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what > happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid > it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more > pronounced. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: > > > > > Galin, > > > I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) > > > just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an d > > > even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc h > > > for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not > accepting > > > that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan e > > > back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a > new > > > nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been > flying > > > great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna l > > > damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 > months > > > to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i > would > > > be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi > nose > > > gear failure. > > > The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the > > > wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou r > > > yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i n > > > the air > > > Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). > > > New Prop and spinner (8K) > > > New Nose gear (1K) > > > Bit of paint ( 1K ) > > > Repairs to the cowling (1K) > > > Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max > > > Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the > plane > > > if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther e > > > are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. > > > Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want > up > > > update/ correct my estimates above . > > > Keith > > > From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>, > > > Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans > will > > > sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... > > > http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80 0/rv-10.jpg > > > Scott > > > On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it > was > > > electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha t > > > Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi on and > using > > > Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im pact. > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O ne > > > rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m ost costly > > > repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n ew and > > > improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a ir soon > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor e > > > than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT > plug-n-play > > > instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. > > > ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to > part-out > > > but I know how insurance companies are. > > > Al Rosa > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez < > galinhdz@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed > > > just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we re > > > super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a > mechanical > > > engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar y > > > check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. > When > > > I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then > > > failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the > left. > > > Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho ld > > > the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. > > > The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul d > > > have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I > > > taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s o > > > now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i n > > > aviation". > > > Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair > than > > > the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they > are > > > going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t o > > > part the airplane out. > > > Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. > > > :( > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > IS-List Email Forum - > > > u> > > > > > > > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============= > > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > > u> > > > rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ============= > > > - List Contribution Web Site - > > > /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > > original message. > > > ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============== - MATRONICS WEB F ORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> > > > http://forums.matronics.com ============ == - List Contribution > Web > > > Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution " > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > > original message. > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > //forums.matronics.com > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addresse e > or addressees only. > > > The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in > whole or in part) of its > > > content is not permitted. > > > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delet e > it from your system. > > > Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the > sender. > > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > ========== > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ========== > > > MS - > > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > e - > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ========== > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ========== > > MS - > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > e - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:22:42 AM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    How much further forward should the main tires end up after this? On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear > where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX > wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I ma de > two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these > on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the > gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust a s > needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear > again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of > the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This > took me about 3 hours total. > > Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more > stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing the re > are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the > horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal > load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forwa rd > angle. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the > actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a > new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work > done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole > lot stronger than it looks. > > The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire > assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube > held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different > stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little > bigger to better withstand the landing loads. > > I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further > forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is > to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH > aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well an d > I fly real IMC. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > > Hello Galin, > > > I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and > inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensi ve. > > > I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the > nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built > the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nos e > gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Current ly > the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time > should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% > at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actuall y > if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should > almost or even stay there. > > > Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and > prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once > you have done it. And so will your nose gear. > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I > have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and hav e > an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is i n > my hangar already so there is no need to move it. > > > I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what > happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid > it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more > pronounced. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: > > > > > Galin, > > > I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) > > > just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an d > > > even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc h > > > for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not > accepting > > > that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan e > > > back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a > new > > > nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been > flying > > > great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna l > > > damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 > months > > > to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i > would > > > be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi > nose > > > gear failure. > > > The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the > > > wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou r > > > yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i n > > > the air > > > Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). > > > New Prop and spinner (8K) > > > New Nose gear (1K) > > > Bit of paint ( 1K ) > > > Repairs to the cowling (1K) > > > Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max > > > Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the > plane > > > if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther e > > > are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. > > > Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want > up > > > update/ correct my estimates above . > > > Keith > > > From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>, > > > Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans > will > > > sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... > > > http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80 0/rv-10.jpg > > > Scott > > > On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it > was > > > electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha t > > > Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi on and > using > > > Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im pact. > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O ne > > > rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m ost costly > > > repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n ew and > > > improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a ir soon > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor e > > > than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT > plug-n-play > > > instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. > > > ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to > part-out > > > but I know how insurance companies are. > > > Al Rosa > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez < > galinhdz@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed > > > just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we re > > > super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a > mechanical > > > engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar y > > > check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. > When > > > I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then > > > failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the > left. > > > Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho ld > > > the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. > > > The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul d > > > have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I > > > taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s o > > > now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i n > > > aviation". > > > Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair > than > > > the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they > are > > > going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t o > > > part the airplane out. > > > Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. > > > :( > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > IS-List Email Forum - > > > u> > > > > > > > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============= > > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > > u> > > > rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ============= > > > - List Contribution Web Site - > > > /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > > original message. > > > ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============== - MATRONICS WEB F ORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> > > > http://forums.matronics.com ============ == - List Contribution > Web > > > Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution " > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. 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    Time: 06:43:22 AM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    7/24/2014 Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't mix very well....=9D Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection? http://www.princeaircraft.com/ OC ======== From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks. The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads. I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC.


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:53:12 AM PST US
    From: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    Galin,=0A=C2-=0ACatto has made some improvements to his prop and he has =C2-added=C2-an optional nickel=C2-metal leading edge which should el iminate any issues with the rain.=C2- There are photos of the updated pro p on his website.=C2- http://www.cattoprops.com/=0A=C2-=0ANot sure what his lead time is now but worth a look see.=0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2-=0APS: O nce you get the nose gear off please take some photos and post for us to se e.=0A=0AFrom: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>=0ATo: "kis-list@matronic s.com" <kis-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:46 AM=0A Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A=0A=0A=0AInitial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear insta lled, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it l ooks.=0A=C2-=0AThe rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket=C2-broke le tting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the d ifferent stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads.=0A=C2-=0AI will def initely look at moving the=C2-main gear an inch or two further forward bu t not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is=C2-lighter than the SENSENICH=C2-alumi num prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <man ing <mantafs@earthlink.net>=0A>=0A>Hello Galin,=0A>=0A>I have seen quotes f rom under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certifie d IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive.=0A>=0A>I know I am abo ut to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the ma in gear placement. =C2-As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. =C2-This places much more load on the nose gear and co ntributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. =C2-Currently the T R-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. =C2-At no time sh ould it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. =C2-At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. =C2-Ac tually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it sh ould almost or even stay there.=0A>=0A>Everyone, move your main gear forwar d to save your nose gear, engine and prop. =C2-This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. =C2-And so will your nose gear.=0A>=0A>Mark=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>=0A>From: Galin Hernandez=0A>=0A>Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>To: "kis-list @matronics.com"=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involve d) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the air plane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it.=0A>=0A>=C2- I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happ ens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it mi ght be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, =C2-<Keith.Miller@esa.in =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Galin,=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>I know =C2-how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)=0A>=0A>just after i completed her . =C2-It was a very bad =C2-nights sleep for me , and=0A>=0A>even worse after the insurance man =C2-turned up , since it doesn't take much=0A> =0A>for the insurance company to =C2-consider a right off , but i was not accepting=0A>=0A>that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amou nt plus the plane=0A>=0A>back . in the end =C2-it took an engine strip do wn and rebuild, new Prop, =C2-a new=0A>=0A>nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of =C2-glass fibre and paint and she has been flying=0A>=0A>great =C2-for the last 11 years. The =C2-engine strip down =C2- showed no =C2-inter nal=0A>=0A>damage and was completed for just =C2-3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). =C2-it took me 6 months=0A>=0A>to get back in the air but i =C2-ended u p about 6 K pounds in profit . =C2-i would=0A>=0A>be surprised if there w as any =C2-damage to the =C2-firewall from a =C2-slow taxi nose=0A> =0A>gear failure.=0A>=0A>The good =C2-thing is that the airframe and wing s were not damaged, take the=0A>=0A>wings off , rent a trailer and get her home =C2-and into the =C2-workshop , pour=0A>=0A>yourself a stiff drink and =C2-make a list of what is required to get back in=0A>=0A>the air=0A >=0A>=C2- =C2-Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe =C2-2K for p arts).=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-New Prop =C2-and spinner (8K)=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-New Nose gear =C2-(1K)=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-Bit of paint ( 1K )=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2-Repairs to the =C2-cowling =C2- =C2-(1K)=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2-Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Seri ously consider making a deal =C2- with the insurance to get back the =C2 -plane=0A>=0A>if they tell you it's scrap . =C2-even if you cant do the work yourself there=0A>=0A>are plenty of people out there with the skill w ho can.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts =C2 -? =C2-and does anyone want up=0A>=0A>update/ correct =C2-my estimate s above =C2-.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Keith=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>From: =C2- Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>=0A>=0A>To: =C2- =C2- "kis-li st@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>,=0A>=0A>Date: =C2- 07/23/2014 06:41 AM=0A>=0A>Subject: =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Re: KIS-List: N819PR No se Gear Failure=0A>=0A>Sent by: =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-owner-kis-list-s erver@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will=0A>=0A>sell them... =C2-Or a taildragger conversion....=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ 1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>Scott=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <gali nhdz@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- I am not smart e nough to design anything like that on my own. If it was=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2 - =C2- electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Lyle has done in the pa stno short cuts in the construction and using=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on impact.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gal in Hernandez=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 201 4 1:53 PM=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- To: ki s-list@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Subject: Re: KIS-Li st: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and imp roved" nose gear? One=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- rated for about 15 0,000lbs? ;)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <=0A>=0A> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the most costly=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- re pair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- improved new nose gearhope the air craft returns to the air soon=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- owner-kis-list-server@matronics. com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- To: kis-l ist@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- than 50% just to rep air it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ;)=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- So sorry to hear this Galin. =C2-It doesn't look bad enough to pa rt-out=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- but I know how insurance companie s are.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Al Rosa=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@g mail.com>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pi n then=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- failed which let the entire assem bly rotate 180 degrees to the left.=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapse d.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- have happened on the non-movement area of t he airport. But since I=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- taxied to an exi t closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- aviation".=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are=0A >=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- part the airpla ne out.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- :(=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- tp://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ===============0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- IS-List Email Forum -=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- u>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- t or?KIS-List" target="_blank">=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ===============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- u>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.co m/=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ======= ========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-- List Contribution Web Site -=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- /pre> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com /contribution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- === ============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- This communication, including any attachments, may contain=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- confidential information and is intended on ly for the individual or=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- entity to whom it is addressed. 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    Message 7


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    Time: 07:13:34 AM PST US
    From: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
    Subject: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    Mark, What is the best location for the TR-1? Inches from firewall? Tim -----Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Kettering Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I made two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust as needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This took me about 3 hours total. Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing there are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forward angle. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks. The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads. I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: Hello Galin, I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive. I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there. Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. And so will your nose gear. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it. I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: Galin, I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , and even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take much for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accepting that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been flying great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no internal damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 months to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i would be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi nose gear failure. The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pour yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back in the air Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). New Prop and spinner (8K) New Nose gear (1K) Bit of paint ( 1K ) Repairs to the cowling (1K) Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the plane if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself there are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up update/ correct my estimates above . Keith From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/r v-10.jpg Scott On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the past.no short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamar's worst case math to determine the loads on impact. From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: The damage looks minimal.tear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts).then a new and improved new nose gear.hope the aircraft returns to the air soon From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote: So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are. Al Rosa On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out. Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. :( et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ============= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= - List Contribution Web Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ============== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com ============== - List Contribution Web Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the original message. 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    Message 8


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    Time: 07:20:24 AM PST US
    From: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    As an add on to the Catto prop possibility.=0A=C2-=0AM T Propeller http:/ /www.mt-propeller.com/index.htm=C2-makes several different composite prop s both fixed and constant speed with leading edge protection.=C2- A coupl e of models are electric constant speed.=0A=C2-=0Aalso=0A=C2-=0AAero Co mposites Inc. http://www.aerocomposites.com/=C2-has several different 2 a nd 3 blade composite props which are worth a look.=0A=C2-=0ABoth of the a bove are a bit more expensive than the Catto prop or at least they were whe n I did my research.=C2- Each has also come out with new models and upgra des since then.=0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom: Robert Re ed <robertr237@att.net>=0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics. com> =0ASent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:52 AM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: N819 PR Nose Gear Failure=0A=0A=0A=0AGalin,=0A=C2-=0ACatto has made some impro vements to his prop and he has=C2-added=C2-an optional nickel=C2-meta l leading edge which should eliminate any issues with the rain.=C2- There are photos of the updated prop on his website.=C2- http://www.cattoprops .com/=0A=C2-=0ANot sure what his lead time is now but worth a look see. =0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2-=0APS: Once you get the nose gear off please take s ome photos and post for us to see.=0A=0AFrom: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gma il.com>=0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Th ursday, July 24, 2014 7:46 AM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Fai lure=0A=0A=0A=0AInitial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely o verhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiber glass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane i s a whole lot stronger than it looks.=0A=C2-=0AThe rear pin on the landin g gear "H" bracket=C2-broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degree s backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the land ing loads.=0A=C2-=0AI will definitely look at moving the=C2-main gear a n inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is=C2-light er than the SENSENICH=C2-aluminum prop I have, but composite props and ra in don't mix very well and I fly real IMC.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote:=0A=0A--> KIS-Lis t message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>=0A>=0A>Hello Ga lin,=0A>=0A>I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear d own and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too e xpensive.=0A>=0A>I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the is sue with the nose gear is the main gear placement. =C2-As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. =C2-This places much m ore load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced os cillation. =C2-Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. =C2-At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and t ypically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. =C2-At far aft CG it should b e in the single digits. =C2-Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and p ush the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there.=0A>=0A>Ever yone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop. =C2-This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. =C2-And so will your nose gear.=0A>=0A>Mark=0A>=0A>-----Or iginal Message-----=0A>=0A>From: Galin Hernandez=0A>=0A>Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>To: "kis-list@matronics.com"=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: KIS-Lis t: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>THANKS for the info. I am meetin g with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it.=0A>=0A>=C2-I don't think it will be written off as a to tal loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-1 0 nose gear but am afraid it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, =C2-<Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>--> KIS-List message pos ted by: Keith.Miller@esa.int=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Galin,=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>I know =C2-how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)=0A> =0A>just after i completed her . =C2-It was a very bad =C2-nights sleep for me , and=0A>=0A>even worse after the insurance man =C2-turned up , s ince it doesn't take much=0A>=0A>for the insurance company to =C2-conside r a right off , but i was not accepting=0A>=0A>that and made a deal with th em to settle for a lower amount plus the plane=0A>=0A>back . in the end =C2 -it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, =C2-a new=0A>=0A>n ose gear from Lyle ,a bit of =C2-glass fibre and paint and she has been f lying=0A>=0A>great =C2-for the last 11 years. The =C2-engine strip down =C2- showed no =C2-internal=0A>=0A>damage and was completed for just =C2-3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). =C2-it took me 6 months=0A>=0A>to get back in the air but i =C2-ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . =C2-i would=0A >=0A>be surprised if there was any =C2-damage to the =C2-firewall from a =C2-slow taxi nose=0A>=0A>gear failure.=0A>=0A>The good =C2-thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the=0A>=0A>wings off , r ent a trailer and get her home =C2-and into the =C2-workshop , pour=0A> =0A>yourself a stiff drink and =C2-make a list of what is required to get back in=0A>=0A>the air=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe =C2-2K for parts).=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-New Prop =C2-and spi nner (8K)=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-New Nose gear =C2-(1K)=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- Bit of paint ( 1K )=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-Repairs to the =C2-cowling =C2- =C2-(1K)=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2-Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K m ax=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Seriously consider making a deal =C2- with the insuranc e to get back the =C2-plane=0A>=0A>if they tell you it's scrap . =C2-ev en if you cant do the work yourself there=0A>=0A>are plenty of people out t here with the skill who can.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Does any body know if Lyle is s till making parts =C2-? =C2-and does anyone want up=0A>=0A>update/ corr ect =C2-my estimates above =C2-.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Keith=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>From: =C2- Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>=0A>=0A>To: =C2- =C2- "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>,=0A>=0A>Da te: =C2- 07/23/2014 06:41 AM=0A>=0A>Subject: =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-R e: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>Sent by: =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Th e RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will =0A>=0A>sell them... =C2-Or a taildragger conversion....=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>h ttp://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/r v-10.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Scott=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, G alin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, C onners, Jerry L <=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wro te:=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the construction and using=0A>=0A >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determ ine the loads on impact.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Sent: Tuesday , July 22, 2014 1:53 PM=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- To: kis-list@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Subje ct: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- rat ed for about 150,000lbs? ;)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- The damage looks minimal tear down inspection being the most costly=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- improved new nose gear hope the aircraft returns to the air soon=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- From: owner-kis-list-server@ma tronics.com [mailto:=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- owner-kis-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - To: kis-list@matronics.com=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- With it being insured at only $75,0 00, it might wind up being more=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soo n.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - ;)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- So sorry to hear this Galin. =C2-It doesn't look bad enough to part-out=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- but I know how insur ance companies are.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Al Rosa=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernand ez <galinhdz@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Yesterday, after a day of flyin g, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- super smooth, which is not very common for me. I a m not a mechanical=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- engineer and didn't s leep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. Whe n=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- failed which l et the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn 't hold=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- the stress, it failed and the wh ole thing collapsed.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- The worst part is if I would have taken the previous e xit it would=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- have happened on the non-mo vement area of the airport. But since I=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so=0A>=0A> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy i s alive and well in=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- aviation".=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Dependi ng on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than=0A>=0A>=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- the insured value. When the insurance company tell s me what they are=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- part the airplane out.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Here are some photo's of the airplane on th e runway.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- :(=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?KIS-List=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- tp://forums.matronics.com =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ========= ======0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- IS-List Email Forum -=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- u>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ============= ==0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- u>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- rget="_blank">http ://forums.matronics.com/=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ===============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-- List Contribution Web Site -=0A>=0A>=0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- /pre> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- bution" target="_blank">http: //www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- ===============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- This communication, including any attachments, may contain=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- confidential information an d is intended only for the individual or=0A>=0A>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- entity to whom it is addressed. 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    Time: 07:57:28 AM PST US
    From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    As a rough estimate the main wheels should be about 6 inches aft of the aft CG. This is based on the contact point being 10 degrees aft of the CG location (in 2D side view draw a line from the CG down to the ground but angled 10 deg aft). So if you push your tail to the ground when loaded to the aft CG and you can tilt the plane 10 degrees tail down then the plane will balance at that point. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 24, 2014 9:21 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure How much further forward should the main tires end up after this? On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I made two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust as needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This took me about 3 hours total. Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing there are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forward angle. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks. The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better withstand the landing loads. I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IMC. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: Hello Galin, I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive. I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Currently the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actually if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there. Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done it. And so will your nose gear. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it. I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: Galin, I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , and even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take much for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accepting that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been flying great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no internal damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 months to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i would be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi nose gear failure. The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pour yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back in the air Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). New Prop and spinner (8K) New Nose gear (1K) Bit of paint ( 1K ) Repairs to the cowling (1K) Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the plane if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself there are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up update/ correct my estimates above . Keith From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg Scott On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the construction and using Paul Lamars worst case math to determine the loads on impact. From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the most costly repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the air soon From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. ;) On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote: So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-out but I know how insurance companies are. Al Rosa On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in aviation". Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to part the airplane out. Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. :( et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ============= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - u> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ============= - List Contribution Web Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. 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Please consider the environment before printing this email. ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


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    Time: 11:41:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
    Hi Galin, The whirlwind ground adjustable props are approved for rain and dirt strips. They have a nickel leading edge. People on the vans site say to expect ab out a 20lb weight savings over a metal prop and a few knots. Are you concidering any engine modifications during the overhaul? Having th e heads ported and flow matched is pretty common these days even on certifie d engines. I run ported/balanced heads and 10:1 forged pistons in my 360 w hich combined is worth 8-10% more power for a given fuel flow and they modif ied the case so oil sprays on the back of the piston to cool them. Skydynam ics makes a high lift rocker arm kit that I do not have. I usually do not r un my engine over 180 HP, so the point of the mods is power/efficiency at al titude and during hot/high takeoffs. It may seem risky to deviate from the lycoming standard, but a 360 with fuel injection, ported heads and 10:1 pistons has been the standard homebuilt bu ild from performance shops like Lycon in CA for about 10 years now. Anyhow, food for thought... Scott > On Jul 24, 2014, at 5:46 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > > Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the a ctual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a new n ose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot strong er than it looks. > > The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire asse mbly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held up f or a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I will a sk Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to better w ithstand the landing loads. > > I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further forw ard but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to go w ith a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum pro p I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real IM C. > > >> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> w rote: >> >> Hello Galin, >> >> I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and in spection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive. >> >> I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the no se gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built the m ain gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nose gear a nd contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Currently the TR -4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft C G. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actually if you load t o absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even s tay there. >> >> Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and p rop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you h ave done it. And so will your nose gear. >> >> Mark >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Galin Hernandez >> >> Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM >> >> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" >> >> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure >> >> >> >> THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have a n impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar already so there is no need to move it. >> >> I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what h appens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it m ight be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Galin, >> >> >> >> I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) >> >> just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an d >> >> even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc h >> >> for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accept ing >> >> that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan e >> >> back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new >> >> nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been fly ing >> >> great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna l >> >> damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 mo nths >> >> to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i wo uld >> >> be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi n ose >> >> gear failure. >> >> The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the >> >> wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou r >> >> yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i n >> >> the air >> >> Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). >> >> New Prop and spinner (8K) >> >> New Nose gear (1K) >> >> Bit of paint ( 1K ) >> >> Repairs to the cowling (1K) >> >> Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max >> >> >> >> Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the pl ane >> >> if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther e >> >> are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. >> >> >> >> Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up >> >> update/ correct my estimates above . >> >> >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> >> >> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>, >> >> Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM >> >> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure >> >> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans w ill >> >> sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... >> >> >> >> http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80 0/rv-10.jpg >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> >> >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was >> >> electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < >> >> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: >> >> I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha t >> >> Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi on and using >> >> Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im pact. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> >> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To: kis-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O ne >> >> rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < >> >> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m ost costly >> >> repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n ew and >> >> improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a ir soon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> >> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM >> >> To: kis-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor e >> >> than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-p lay >> >> instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part- out >> >> but I know how insurance companies are. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Al Rosa >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail. com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed >> >> just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we re >> >> super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechani cal >> >> engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar y >> >> check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. W hen >> >> I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then >> >> failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the le ft. >> >> Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho ld >> >> the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul d >> >> have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I >> >> taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s o >> >> now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i n >> >> aviation". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair t han >> >> the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they a re >> >> going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t o >> >> part the airplane out. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> :( >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============= >> >> >> >> >> >> IS-List Email Forum - >> >> >> >> >> >> u> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> >> >> >> >> >> ============= >> >> >> >> >> >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> >> >> >> >> >> u> >> >> >> >> >> >> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ============= >> >> >> >> >> >> - List Contribution Web Site - >> >> >> >> >> >> /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> >> >> bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> ============= >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This communication, including any attachments, may contain >> >> confidential information and is intended only for the individual o r >> >> entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copy ing >> >> of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is >> >> strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e >> >> contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the >> >> original message. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============== IS-List Email Forum - u > > tor?KIS-List" >> >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> >> ============== - MATRONICS WEB FO RUMS - u> rget="_blank"> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com ============= = - List Contribution Web >> >> Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution " >> >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution === >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This communication, including any attachments, may contain >> >> confidential information and is intended only for the individual o r >> >> entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copy ing >> >> of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is >> >> strictly prohibited. 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    Message 11


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    Time: 01:16:38 PM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
    I may just have to fly down to your place and do it there. :) On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote: > > As a rough estimate the main wheels should be about 6 inches aft of the > aft CG. This is based on the contact point being 10 degrees aft of the C G > location (in 2D side view draw a line from the CG down to the ground but > angled 10 deg aft). So if you push your tail to the ground when loaded t o > the aft CG and you can tilt the plane 10 degrees tail down then the plane > will balance at that point. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Jul 24, 2014 9:21 AM > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > How much further forward should the main tires end up after this? > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > > Moving the main gear forward is very simple. You do not more the gear > where it attaches to the fuselage you just angle it forward with a FLOX > wedge. On my TR1 I unbolted the main gear and dropped it down. Then I ma de > two small wood blocks about 3/8" thick to use as spacers. I placed these > on the trailing edge of the main gear center section and test bolted the > gear in place now angled forward due to the spacers. Remove and adjust a s > needed. When I was happy with the new wheel location I lowered the gear > again, covered it with packing tape for a release, piled FLOX on the top of > the gear and bolted it in place with the spacers holding the angle. This > took me about 3 hours total. > > > Some may be thinking that having the gear angled forward will put more > stress on the attachment. Actually the opposite is true. On landing the re > are two main forces, the vertical load due to the rate of decent and the > horizontal load due to the rapid spin up of the wheels. This horizontal > load is the main stress on the attachment and is reduced due to the forwa rd > angle. > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Jul 24, 2014 8:46 AM > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so the > actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a > new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work > done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole > lot stronger than it looks. > > > The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire > assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube > held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different > stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little > bigger to better withstand the landing loads. > > > I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further > forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is > to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH > aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well an d > I fly real IMC. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > > Hello Galin, > > > I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and > inspection on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensi ve. > > > I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the > nose gear is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built > the main gear is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nos e > gear and contributes to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Current ly > the TR-4 has about 33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time > should it be over 25% (most forward CG) and typically should be about 10% > at mid aft CG. At far aft CG it should be in the single digits. Actuall y > if you load to absolute aft CG and push the tail to the ground it should > almost or even stay there. > > > Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and > prop. This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once > you have done it. And so will your nose gear. > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I > have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and hav e > an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is i n > my hangar already so there is no need to move it. > > > I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what > happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid > it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more > pronounced. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote: > > > > > Galin, > > > I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2) > > > just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an d > > > even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc h > > > for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not > accepting > > > that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan e > > > back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a > new > > > nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been > flying > > > great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna l > > > damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 > months > > > to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i > would > > > be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi > nose > > > gear failure. > > > The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the > > > wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou r > > > yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i n > > > the air > > > Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts). > > > New Prop and spinner (8K) > > > New Nose gear (1K) > > > Bit of paint ( 1K ) > > > Repairs to the cowling (1K) > > > Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max > > > Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the > plane > > > if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther e > > > are plenty of people out there with the skill who can. > > > Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want > up > > > update/ correct my estimates above . > > > Keith > > > From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> > > > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>, > > > Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans > will > > > sell them... Or a taildragger conversion.... > > > http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80 0/rv-10.jpg > > > Scott > > > On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it > was > > > electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha t > > > Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi on and > using > > > Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im pact. > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O ne > > > rated for about 150,000lbs? ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L < > > > jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote: > > > The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m ost costly > > > repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n ew and > > > improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a ir soon > > > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM > > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > > With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor e > > > than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT > plug-n-play > > > instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon. > > > ;) > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to > part-out > > > but I know how insurance companies are. > > > Al Rosa > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez < > galinhdz@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed > > > just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we re > > > super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a > mechanical > > > engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar y > > > check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. > When > > > I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then > > > failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the > left. > > > Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho ld > > > the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. > > > The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul d > > > have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I > > > taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s o > > > now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i n > > > aviation". > > > Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair > than > > > the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they > are > > > going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t o > > > part the airplane out. > > > Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway. > > > :( > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > IS-List Email Forum - > > > u> > > > > > > > tor?KIS-List" target="_blank"> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============= > > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > > u> > > > rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ============= > > > - List Contribution Web Site - > > > /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > > original message. > > > ============== IS-List Email Forum - u> > tor?KIS-List" > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ============== - MATRONICS WEB F ORUMS - u> rget="_blank"> > > > http://forums.matronics.com ============ == - List Contribution > Web > > > Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution " > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============= > > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain > > > confidential information and is intended only for the individual or > > > entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or > copying > > > of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient > is > > > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas e > > > contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the > > > original message. > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > //forums.matronics.com > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addresse e > or addressees only. > > > The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in > whole or in part) of its > > > content is not permitted. > > > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delet e > it from your system. > > > Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the > sender. > > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > ========== > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ========== > > > MS - > > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > e - > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ========== > > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > ========== > > > MS - > > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > e - > > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ========== > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ========== > > MS - > > k">http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > e - > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > >




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