Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:28 AM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (William Schertz)
2. 11:27 AM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Robert Reed)
3. 11:35 AM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Robert Reed)
4. 02:44 PM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Glenn)
5. 08:27 PM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Galin Hernandez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
Bob
I also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into the
hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could use
the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towbar.
Bill
p.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second set of
owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forward with
the Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be making it
'firewall aft' installation.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
> Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS
> tug. I installed a single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at abo
ut 2/3rds
> of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I bent a lo
op
> out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a winch cable
> hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor freigh
t.
> I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabricated tha
t
> allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow bar holes
on
> the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mower wheel
s
> on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over the angle
> irons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I have a
> small tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and drop i
n
> a =C2=BC=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose wheel.
I=99ve found
> putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to steer the nose wheel into
> the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially when we are full of
> fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in case the battery
> gets low.
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>
>
> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a yea
r
> when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. Da
ve
> had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several year
s
> before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I wa
s
> still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for
> proving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>
>
> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s take
n me the
> last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the test flig
ht
> time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just kept ge
tting in
> the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to do on the hou
se
> but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned flying. The onl
y problem
> now is that I can=99t push the plane back into the hangar by myself
. There=99s
> a definite slope away from hangar and I am getting too old to have to put
> that much effort into pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I
> did it so I am now working on some kind of tug.
>
>
> Bob Reed
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > =EF=BB
>
> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20
> years. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight
> hours every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another
> 20 years.
>
> >
>
> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
> photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
Great Minds....All come up with virtually the same solution.
My first thought and effort was put into modifying a Jazzy Pride powered sc
ooter that I inherited from my mother-in-law.=C2- Put a connection for th
e tow bar on the front of it and gave it a try.=C2- Pulled the plane out
without a problem but pushing it back in was impossible.=C2- The way the
steering works on the scooter was impossible to control when pushing.=C2-
Tried multiple configurations and NO JOY.=C2- So, next option was the Ha
rbor Freight Winch I had bought two years ago for helping me load heavy loa
ds into my pickup by myself.=C2- I have a sturdy and heavy metal stand th
at I am mounting the winch on with the battery and controls on a shelf unde
r the top.=C2- Put anchor bolts into the hangar floor and will be bolting
it to the stand.=C2- Winch looks like it will be at just right height fo
r straight pull and plenty of cable to work with.=C2- Haven't finished th
e hookup yet but hope to do so this week.=C2- My tow connection will be t
o the rear tie down supplemented by pushing with the tow bar from the front
.
Thanks for your input, it confirms the workability of the winch system for
me.
Great to hear from you Bill and hated to hear that you sold your plane but
understand.
Ed Hanson, I would like to see a photo of your setup, it sounds entirely di
fferent from what I am doing and I would like to see how you worked it.=C2
- Not sure if I understood that you are pulling back using the nose wheel
or not.=C2- If so, how do you steer the plane when it is backing up?
Thanks,=C2-
Bob Reed
=C2-
On Monday, December 6, 2021, 10:28:11 AM CST, William Schertz <wschertz
343@gmail.com> wrote:
BobI also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into the
hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could us
e the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towba
r.=C2-Billp.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second
set of owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forwar
d with the Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be mak
ing it=C2- 'firewall aft' installation.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS tug.
I installed a =C2-single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at abou
t 2/3rds of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I be
nt a loop out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a win
ch cable hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor
freight. I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabric
ated that allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow ba
r holes on the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mo
wer wheels on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over t
he angle irons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I h
ave a small tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and dr
op in a =C2=BC=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose whe
el. I=99ve found putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to stee
r the nose wheel into the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially
when we are full of fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in
case the battery gets low.
=C2-
Sent from Mail for Windows
=C2-
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
=C2-
I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a year
when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. Dave
had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several years
before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I was
still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for p
roving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
=C2-
I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now.=C2- It=99s t
aken me the last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the
test flight time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife j
ust kept getting in the way and I had a house to build. Still have some wor
k to do on the house but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earn
ed flying.=C2- The only problem now is that I can=99t push the plan
e back into the hangar by myself.=C2- There=99s a definite slope aw
ay from hangar and I am getting too old to have to put that much effort int
o pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I did it so I am now wor
king on some kind of tug.
=C2-
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
=C2-
> On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20 years
. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight hours ev
ery year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another 20 years.
>
>=C2- Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
=C2-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
Mike,
Sorry it wasn't me in South Africa but I wish it had been.
I tried the mobility scooter route and yes it will pull it just fine but no
t so great at pushing it back in.=C2- The issue is how those scooters int
eract with the nose wheel and trying to steer backwards.=C2- I have done
research on a number of different push back tugs and all of them that conne
ct to the free castering wheel seem to work the same way.=C2- When you wa
nt to change the direction of the nosewheel they lift the tug and turn the
nose wheel=C2- then go back to pushing.=C2- The only way that could be
done with the scooter would be a complete rebuild of the thing.
Keep us updated on that First Flight and pass us some photos.
Bob Reed
On Sunday, December 5, 2021, 08:27:34 PM CST, mikepienaar09@gmail.com <
mikepienaar09@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bob,
I have the same problem
I bought a used mobility scooter for $ 200.00 and it seems more than capabl
e of pulling my plane.
If it is uphill into the hangar you may be able to winch it back in
I think you came to see my project in South Africa with John Petrie if I'm
not mistaken, I am in Canada now so a big change for me.
I'm in a worse situation than you, my project still has not flown, busy get
ting the paperwork together for the big inspection,
Should happen in next 6 weeks or so.
Keep well
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com <owner-kis-list-server@matronics.
com> On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: December 5, 2021 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a year
when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. Dave
had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several years
before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I was
still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for p
roving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now.=C2- It=99s t
aken me the last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the
test flight time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife j
ust kept getting in the way and I had a house to build. Still have some wor
k to do on the house but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earn
ed flying.=C2- The only problem now is that I can=99t push the plan
e back into the hangar by myself.=C2- There=99s a definite slope aw
ay from hangar and I am getting too old to have to put that much effort int
o pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I did it so I am now wor
king on some kind of tug.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20 years
. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight hours ev
ery year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another 20 years.
>
>=C2- Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
I'm in the group that ended up with Bill's TR4 (N343BS). I have seen a tug
built from a winch motor and thought I had a copy but can't put my hand on
it right now. Some of the guys might know what I'm talking about. It looked
like good engineering.
Glenn
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 1:36 PM Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Sorry it wasn't me in South Africa but I wish it had been.
>
> I tried the mobility scooter route and yes it will pull it just fine but
> not so great at pushing it back in. The issue is how those scooters
> interact with the nose wheel and trying to steer backwards. I have done
> research on a number of different push back tugs and all of them that
> connect to the free castering wheel seem to work the same way. When you
> want to change the direction of the nosewheel they lift the tug and turn
> the nose wheel then go back to pushing. The only way that could be done
> with the scooter would be a complete rebuild of the thing.
>
>
> Keep us updated on that First Flight and pass us some photos.
>
> Bob Reed
>
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021, 08:27:34 PM CST, mikepienaar09@gmail.com <
> mikepienaar09@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> I have the same problem
>
> I bought a used mobility scooter for $ 200.00 and it seems more than
> capable of pulling my plane.
> If it is uphill into the hangar you may be able to winch it back in
>
> I think you came to see my project in South Africa with John Petrie if I'
m
> not mistaken, I am in Canada now so a big change for me.
>
> I'm in a worse situation than you, my project still has not flown, busy
> getting the paperwork together for the big inspection,
> Should happen in next 6 weeks or so.
>
> Keep well
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Robert Reed
> Sent: December 5, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>
> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a yea
r
> when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. Da
ve
> had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several year
s
> before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I wa
s
> still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for
> proving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>
> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s take
n me the
> last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the test flig
ht
> time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just kept ge
tting in
> the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to do on the hou
se
> but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned flying. The onl
y problem
> now is that I can=99t push the plane back into the hangar by myself
. There=99s
> a definite slope away from hangar and I am getting too old to have to put
> that much effort into pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I
> did it so I am now working on some kind of tug.
>
> Bob Reed
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > =EF=BB
> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20
> years. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight
> hours every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another
> 20 years.
> >
> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
> photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> <; --> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> http:// -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ofollow" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
> ================
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
I built a tug from an old (1994) riding lawn mower and it worked great. But
then I was offered a real nice (read cheap) golf cart so I sold the lawn
mower tug and set the golf cart up as a tug. You can see what I did under
the maintenance section of my webpage. BUT, it took me longer to learn how
to push the plane back into the hangar than what it took to build the tugs.
It isn't as easy as it looks.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 11:48 AM William Schertz <wschertz343@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Bob
> I also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into the
> hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could u
se
> the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towba
r.
> Bill
> p.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second set of
> owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forward with
> the Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be making i
t
> 'firewall aft' installation.
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS
>> tug. I installed a single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at ab
out 2/3rds
>> of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I bent a l
oop
>> out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a winch cabl
e
>> hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor freig
ht.
>> I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabricated th
at
>> allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow bar holes
on
>> the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mower whee
ls
>> on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over the angle
>> irons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I have a
>> small tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and drop
in
>> a =C2=BC=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose wheel.
I=99ve found
>> putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to steer the nose wheel int
o
>> the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially when we are full o
f
>> fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in case the battery
>> gets low.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
>> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>>
>>
>>
>> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a
>> year when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my proje
ct.
>> Dave had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it severa
l
>> years before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country whi
le
>> I was still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Gal
in
>> for proving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>>
>>
>>
>> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s tak
en me the
>> last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the test fli
ght
>> time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just kept g
etting in
>> the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to do on the ho
use
>> but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned flying. The on
ly problem
>> now is that I can=99t push the plane back into the hangar by mysel
f. There=99s
>> a definite slope away from hangar and I am getting too old to have to pu
t
>> that much effort into pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I
>> did it so I am now working on some kind of tug.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > =EF=BB
>>
>> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20
>> years. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight
>> hours every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least anothe
r
>> 20 years.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
>> photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>>
>>
>>
>
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